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BCC Minutes 03/29/1994 W (Strategic Plan)ORIGINAL BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS STRATEGIC PLANNING CONFERENCE March 29, 1994 9:00 a.m. Collier County.Museum Naples, Florida 33962 Reported by: Christina J. Reynoldson, RPR Deputy Official Court Reporter OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Carrothers Reporting Service, Inc. 20th Judicial Circuit - Collier County 3301 East Tamiami Trail Naples, Florida 33962 TELE: (813) 732-2700 FAX: (813) 774-6022 APP EARANC E ~ BOARD MEMBERS: Timothy Constantine Bettye Matthews John Norris Butt Saunders Michael Volpe George Archibald - Transportation Administrator Wayne Arnold - Acting Current Planning Manager Paul Brigham - Court Administrator Tom Conrecode - OCPM Director Jennifer Edwards - Assistant to the County Manager Bill Hargett - Assistant County Manager Norris Ijams - Emergency Services Director Bill Lorenz - Environmental Services Administrator Mike McNees - Acting Utilities Administrator Leo Ochs - Administrative Services Administrator Martha Skinner - Social Services Director Michael Smykowski - Acting Budget and Management Director ALSO PRESENT: Professor Leslie "Pepper" Martin Tony Polizos Dr. Jane Polkowski Bettie Gulacsik OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 PROCEEDINGS CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: ~king a couple of co,--ents. I Just wanted to start by I don't think there's any disagreement from any of the staff or any of the ¢onissioners ~hat we need to do a strategic planning process and we can make it very effective. However, I heard a number of comments following the second workshop that we seemed to drift during that workshop and get into some of the details rather than the big picture plan, which is what we're supposed to be accomplishing at this early phase. ! had a chance to talk with Pepper and he was unsure early on as to how aggressively he should participate. I've assured him that if we start to drift that's what we need with a facilitator is to keep us in line, and he's assured me he will do exactly that. So we ~ay see Pepper being a little more active today, and hopefully we will get back on track. ! think the first meeting we had went very well and was the direction we wanted to head. Hopefully we can get back on that pace today. So Pepper wants to start off and kind of get us on track. I think he has a pretty OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 Page 4 of the Court Reporter's transcript is missing. b,ginnings of this plan. We nead to do that so that we can start regimenting this into areas of importance to the members of the Commission. So therefore, what I have done here is I'm going to make a suggestion to you. Hopefully you can discuss it and then we'll get your input as to what we have in mind for you today. I want you to understand that this suggestion is form and for procedure and not necessarily for ~nput. I'm not trying to do the planning. I'm merely trying to present a form that I hope maybe you could fill out and it would be something that we could put on paper and then share with everybody in Collier County government, including the voters of Collier County. I checked again after last week with the responsibilities that had been outlined from the state constitution and we've highlighted the areas of your responsibilities which include, and this is all in your handout, health, safety, welfare and quality of life. All of those came forward in one form or another in the last two meetings. Technical codes and regulations, which is one of your primary things as legislators for OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 6 this county. Waste, sewage, water supply and conservation and roadways were mentioned.very specifically in your duties and responsibility; growth planning and zoning regulations. I think we need to look at these from the legal standpoint and try to build these into the basic planning process and address the responsibilities. Not that it hasn't already come up, but we haven't come up with any consensus. Now, what I would like to see you address today is basic strategic planning areas. We talked about not having a laundry list of plans that were 25 long, and it would be very confusing and it may be even duplicatory of areas. I'm not suggesting these, I'm only using these as examples from the notes we've had and we've heard in the room at the last two meetings. But let's say the No. 1 basic planning area could be, for example, essential services. And then to fill that out for a further example I've listed from your responsibilities water, solid waste, sewer and roadways as an area to be considered. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 No. 2, safety, which would include, only as a suggestion, health, crime, building/hous%ng technical codes and so forth. No. 3, environment and conservation with whatever you would put in there; environmental protection, land use, beaches and so forth. No. 4, effective governance, which would include efficiency, downsizing, leadership and change and so forth. No. 5, economic development, which I have just for examples Council of Economic Advisors, capital projects, tourism, diversify our economic base. No. 6, growth management. And 7 and 8 and 9, if you feel they are necessary, as basic planning areas. I would hope that we don't have too many basic areas; maybe six or seven at your will. And then we are rapidly six months off coming to October 1st, which is the beginning of the operations year, and I would hope that we could get enough on paper and the basic areas that you would choose to use to make some definite plans for starting October 1st; which would be the first of your five-year plan, if you adopt that. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 8 And then~ of course, you'd have your years two, three, four and five, which is advanced planning, and so forth down the line. Same way with all of these, we would have a health issue~ and I've Just penciled in some here, communicable diseases, Juvenile crime, neighborhood safety, Just to give you some examples. And there's some back in here. Now, hopefully this will Just start you on the road to thinking about what you would like to have as basic important areas for planning and where you would fill in these subtopics, so to speak; not that they're not important, but they belong in some organized form. A~d so what we've done here, we can flip back and forth for you on these. We have a sheet here that says, "Commissioners' List of Strategic Planning Areas." And I don't want to spend a lot of time talking. I want to do most of my time listening today if I can. And so I'd like to have you start out by hashing over what you think would be your choice for six or seven basic strategic planning areas. Could we start out with our Chairman, Mr. Constantine? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 9 C~LI~ CONSTANTINE: Yeah. I think we listed several areas at the first meeting and then tried to define that second category on some of those last time. Maybe if we qot all five or six or seven, whatever we end up with, first and then go back and try to break them down so it'd be a little more organized. We did a little bit of work last time I guess on economic development. So why don't we put that down? That was a general consensus that that was an issue that all of us feel is a priority item for us to focus on in so~e way or shape during the next year or years. If I'm wrong that that's not a consensus, feel free to say so. PROFESSOR HARTIN: Everybody should start Jumping in now with their agreement or any rebuttal that they might have in regard to this and get this thing moving. Who might agree? COHHI=SIONERHATTHEWS: I have no problem with that item being a major area. I would suggest also that even though it comes under health and welfare that one item is so crucial that I think it needs to be an area is the potable water issue. Where are we going to get our OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 10 water -- CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I guess I would -- COMMISSIONERMATTHEWS: -- and assure the quality of it? CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I see that -- and you're right. In my mind it's a top priority, except it would fall under our -- we have some sort of environmental That would probably be the top priority within category. that. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I disagree with that because there are so many issues under the environmental category and the potable water issue stands out far and above all of the others. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Would that be an essential service category rather than an environmental category? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I guess when we talk about the bigger -- this is going back a couple meetings, but when we talk about the bigger items or the broad description such as economic development, I don't see potable water fitting'in that way. I think -- you're absolutely right, it's a priority and has to be focused on, but I see it as a subtopic of one of the categories. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 11 COMHISSIONERVOLPE: I concur with economic development. It may come under an even broader category, under the category of growth management. The economic element of our Growth Management Plan is part of what we're developing in that process. And it seems to me that growth management and then economic development when we're looking at our Growth Management Plan, that's where we've given the direction to our staff. I guess I'm agreeing and wondering if we want to broaden the category to take in growth management, which would include economic development. Maybe we've got that category. I'm not sure. PROFESSOR MARTIN: It's in your handout. These are not specific suggestions, Commissioner, they were merely Go to the next page and there you have form suggestions. them. Okay. Commissioner Norris, your thoughts? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's fine. I have no objection to using that as a starting point. I think perhaps No. 2 then -- are these ranked by number in order of importance or just in any -- PROFESSOR MARTIN: No, I don't think so at this OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 12 t:J. me. think we need to try to -- CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I think you can rank them as you will. I Just We just need to know what they are at this point. We need to determine what they are at this point, not rank them. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Let's get them on paper first and then rank them, if that becomes necessary. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I think obviously the main purpose of county government is essential services. So that should be up there as No. 2 and we can subdivide that any way we choose. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Let me ask a question, because I thought we did this the very first time. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I thought so, too. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I thought we listed six areas, strategic planning areas. For example, one of them was dealing with solid waste, and everybody agrees that was one of the major areas. Dealing with potable water was another one of the major areas. And we had, I think, six of them. One of them was the most efficient and effective county government in the State of Florida. We had those OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 13 items. And I thought what we were going to do is try to put meat on that skeleton. And now it looks like we're trying to put the skeleton together again here. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: What we didn't do is -- we sent that list away and said when we came back at the second meeting we'd try to determine consensus on those items and I think we failed to do that. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I think we got into tasks instead of groupings and we need to get back to our groupings and take each group and define the tasks under those groups. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: We may use that same skeleton, but I guess we need to go around and see if there's consensus on that because we failed to do that before. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: going back to this recapitulation of our Commissioners' goals? Is that what you're looking at? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: but I think so. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Co~issioner Saunders, are you I can't see what you have, It's i through 16 and starts out solid waste, economy, governmental efficiency, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 drinking water, water supply, crime, health, road, agriculture. There's a bunch of those. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Maybe we need to put the list on the board again, but I thought that's what we'd done. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Do we have that? CONNISSIONER VOLPE: Where does that -- PROFESSORMARTIN: That's the recapitulation, but we do have a list of what was on the flip chart. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What did this represent? I mean, we've got an issue -- I mean, without getting -- these recapitulation -- PROFESSOR MARTIN: The ones you wrote, in written form° COHNISSIONERVOLPE: Did we ever group those into general categories? Is that what we're trying to do now? PROFESSOR NARTIN: That's what we tried to do during that first meeting, and that's what Commissioner Saunders is talking about. CONNISSIONER SAUNDERS: recapitulation. CONNISSIONER VOLPE: You're right, it's the Have you got that? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 14 15 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. We had -- ! don't know if my notes at. correct, but we had kind of X'd out some of these and then I think 1 through 6 were the ones that we had kind of agreed to. One was solid waste on the other was dealing with the economy, government efficiency, drinking water, water supply, crime and health. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think those nuits represent the particular Commissioner who may have identified that particular goal. I think that's what that represents. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. MRS. EDWARDS: The individual numbers in parentheses following each statement, that was the nu~er of Commissioners that had listed that. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Of the five? You mean like there were four people who -- okay. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think it was the first six categories that we agreed to as the strategic planning areas. MRS. EDWARDS: PROFESSOR MARTIN: Beginning with solid waste? Let's put them on the board. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 16 Major categories -- I think there were nine of them, but we got the feeling at the time they were not all major categories on which to put the tasks to be done or the subcatsgories under here. HRS. EDWARDS: This is a different list than the one they're looking at. PROFESSOR MARTIN: the board after the first meeting. That's what you're asking for, isn't it, Commissioner Saunders, what we had on the flip chart at the first meeting? MRS. EDWARDS: No, he's reading from the recapitulation. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: This list is the one that was on In the recapitulation there is a listing of 16 items, but I believe the first 6 were the ones that we had agreed to as being the strategic planning areas. MRS. EDWARDS: No. i is solid waste. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And these are not necessarily in order of importance, but these were the six that I think we agreed to. I think that's what you're trying to do now is get to those six. PROFESSOR MARTIN: We'd like to get something on OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 17 paper that you all agree upon today, if possible. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Some of the items that were grouped in these 16 items are things that we may need to reorganize into these areas that Leslie's talking about. PROFESSOR MARTIN: That's right. I don't want to end up with a list of 16 major planning areas. I want to condense it and then have the subtopics which will be easier to deal with then, especially when you call in from all of the staff members, the administrative heads, the health department and the other governmental bodies here for their input as to what's happening and what they're suggesting and to fill out the minute parts of the plan. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Why don't we take the 16 items and group them, try to group them into the areas that Dr. Martin suggested that we try to do and then define what the areas are? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, Just as an example, and my recollection may be incorrect on this, but for example, No. ? says roads. One of the proposals from one of the Commissioners was to determine levels of service and funding for projected needs. And the discussion that OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 18 we had was we've already determined the level of service, that's in our Comprehensive Plan. We've already gone through the ten-year funding issue. That's been done. So from a strategic planning perspective and what we're doing here, that's already been accomplished and doesn't need to be a separate major -- PROFESSOR MARTIN: It doesn't need to be addressed separately, but it needs to be put on paper because it's already done. If it's already done, let's get it down on paper and eliminate that problem. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The point is that right now you're trying to come up with six or seven general categories, and I'm just pointing out roads on this recapitulation was not included because it's something that we've already done. No. 7 or 8 I guess would be agriculture, that's something that would come under No. 2 on the board, economy, as a subgrouping. there. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: All these things are covered If we took essential services, which is what Commissioner Norris said, and put under that category solid waste and then roads, I mean, those OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 19 are essential se~vices, and then we can check off roads, We're taking 16 and trying to condense them. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's what I perceive. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Roads is already done then. Well, I've got a feeling that we talked about essential services. The four or five that are on here that are in the legal description are those services that you ought to provide if you don't provide anything else. Let's forget it. You have to have water. You have to have sewer. You have to have solid waste. You have to have roadways. If those are considered essential, that's a grouping that I think I felt that you were talking about here. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: PROFESSOR MARTIN: what we want you to do. We agree. Yeah. So if we agree -- that's We want you to agree. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think that's what we're doing. We Just broke it down like looking at the first one, solid waste, that night be a priority within our essential services because of where we are in the process. But I think we're all -- COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Let's take the 16 items and OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 2O rank thu into groupings and call the grouping -- COMMISSIONERNORRIS: That takes care of two of them right there. CONMISSlONER MATTHEWS: ¥eah. Call a group essential services. Call a group of them health and a group of ~hem safety or what have you, and let's get our -- PROFESSOR HARTIN: Okay. those six or seven basic areas. Let's try to arrive at If we can agree on that in the next hour, that's a giant step forward. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: We've got the first category as generally being essential services, and under essential services we're talking about solid waste. From the 16 categories, we're talking about transportation or roads. No, 1. mean, that would be PROFESSOR MARTIN: another subtopic under Well, here. I did this Just as a suggestion. It wasn't -- it was for form. Essential services, I had water, solid waste, sewer and roadways. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That pretty much says it. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Yeah. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Can we all agree? Do we need to OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 21 VOte? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: items into a category. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Two. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Fine. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Three. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yes. PROFESSOR HARTIN: Four. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Sure. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Yes. I vote yes, put those four PROFESSOR MARTIN: All right, five. Let's put a big okay right in here for now. Step No. 2, economic development. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: No, let's go to safety. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Okay, safety. Discussion on safety? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I don't -- since we have health, safety and welfare as one of our primary responsibilities, I don't understand why health and safety are in -- why health is a subcategory to safety. PROFESSOR MARTIN: It wasn't. It was Just a suggested form to use. I'm not suggesting that's where OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 22 it should go. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: It certainly can be because to me health and -- I mean, safety, are we talking about crime, security, or are we talking about safety of longevity of life? And that, you know. PROFESSOR MARTIN: certainly health comes under Sure. I don't care what you put under there as long as you agree that's where it ought to go. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Maybe that should go under welfare; health, safety and welfare. Maybe health is welfare and safety is security. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Maybe health, safety and welfare are the essential services. MRS. EDWARDS: A subheading? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I'm not sure that they're the essential services, but I think they are the function of government. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Most definitely. Our responsibility, right? The problem is you can't make health, safety and welfare your major categories because OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 within those there's too much cross-connection like, you know, health could be a safety or a welfare or a health ' issue. So you can't make those your major categories. You have to come up with a better defining term for your major category than safety. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think for me safety -- my mindset this morning is safety is an issue as it relates to crime, building codes, technical codes and doesn't really involve the health issue under safety. That's the way I -- that's the perception I have of the safety issue, but I don't know if the others agree or disagree. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I would have no objection to health being a separate category by itself. There's a lot of different aspects of that. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Let's put down Mr. Volpe's suggestion here under that category. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Under the safety category? PROFESSOR MARTIN: Under your category, which would be -- what do you want to put under safety? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: We have crime and we had -- the other category was the housing codes. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Wouldn't housing codes be OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 23 24 more under welfare? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS~ No, that's under safety. COMMISSIONER ¥OLPE: I think it's safety when you're talking about compliance of building codes and construction of -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: There are a lot of codes that are not particularly safety related. Set-backs and stuff like that are not necessarily safety related. And those are major portions of the building code. COHMISSIONERVOLPE: Right. But I guess what we're trying to do is after we've gotten these categories we're going to establish our long-range planning as to how we're going to address some of these issues. And maybe as we get to the issue of the codes -- I mean, we've had some issues that have been raised about lack of compliance, inspections, changes in our standards and so on. I'm Just thinking that the safety code really has to do with safety as opposed to set-backs. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: My point, I guess, is once again using safety as a major category is going to then bring up too many cross-purpose -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What do you want to use to get OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 25 under that -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: If you want to get into the building codes, perhaps we need a community development major category and under that we can address several ~SSUOS. COMHISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think where we're heading with this is we're going to make a list -- whether it's safety or whatever, we're ultimately going to make a list of everything that we do and then we're going to, I guess, from that list determine which areas we want to accomplish and which areas we need to focus on. So if that's where we're going, it doesn't make a difference if we call it safety or whatever we call it, Just for purposes of getting the list together. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Category 2. It doesn't make a difference what you call it. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If we're going to do that, under safety you're going to have fire protection, E~ergency Medical Services, crime, Juvenile Justice. You're going to have the whole list of things that we do. I think the health and safety codes, building codes, would go under safety also. Later on if we want to move OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 26 it to so. place else, we can. But I think for purposes of gettir~ the list do~n we can get bogged do~n forever on whether It goes under health or safety or welfare. PROFESSOR MARTIN: What we'll do after today is publish this for your use between now and the next meeting and make sure that you agree and if you want to make some changes or some adjustments, but we need to start writing some things down for you to be considering. I consider housing very important; the safety of the occupants of the house. This recent thing In Golden Gate where the fellows fell through the porch, that's -- COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Under safety let's put down everything that we do under safety and see where we go. Emergency Medical Services, I think, is safety. MRS. EDWARDS: Building codes? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I would vote yes for building codes. I don't know about anybody else. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Should we have fire protection? It's not our responsibility. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Ultimately it is. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If the independent districts aren't providing it, then we have to eliminate OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 it and do it ourselves. I think it should be there. COHHISSIONER VOLPE: But they are providing it. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Right now we're listing what we're doing and if it's already been taken care of, we'll use that as a fiery item for future planning. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I'm just raising the question do we provide any type of fire protection through -- other than funding the independent fire control and rescue districts. We are really -- the county government is not providing fire protection. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Yes, we do. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: We have independent districts. MR. IJAMS: Ochopee. COMMISSIONER MATThEWS: Yeah. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is that the only area we're doing that is Ochopee? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Isle of Capri. MR. IJAMS: Isle of Capri is -- COMMISSIONER HATTHEWS: And District No. i is all -- we delegate that out. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's fine. Okay. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 28 MR. IJAMS: Yes. PROFESSOR MARTIN: I think it's part of the " category. And I think what you need to do is write down how it's being handled. You don't have to do a lot of advanced planning unless you do have an issue that comes up. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Part of the planning is that their fire protection -- is independent districts, is that the way to go? And that's part of the planning. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. MRS. EDWARDS: Any other subheadings? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We're talking about health, and did we decide that should not go under safety at this point? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: What about our court system? Would that go under safety, our Jail? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I'm inclined to think so. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Our court system, our Jail. MR. CONRECODE: Talking about crime. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That probably ties in with crime, but we can reorder that, too. MR. IJAMS: Could I make a suggestion on No. 2 on OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 29 fire protection? Independent is true, but dependent is also true. Shouldn't there be a comment or to define -- MRS. EDWARDS: Dependent? MR. IJAMS: That'll define it, I think. MRS. EDWARDS: And dependent. PROFESSOR MARTIN: remarks in this area? CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: in this area. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Commissioner Constantine, any No. You're doing wonderful Well, let's put an okay on this. We have two categories, right? Okay, let's mark this off. What's next, the economy? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: your flip chart there. That one. Do we all agree? This is done. Go back to the first part of PROFESSOR MARTIN: Environment and conservation was merely a suggested category, as they all are. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Commissioner Volpe, you'll find that in this little handout he gave us. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Right. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I guess first we decide OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 3O whether that category makes sense. PROFESSOR MARTIN: about the category? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: category. That's right. What do you think I have no objection to the COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I think it belongs there. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If there's no objection to the category, I think there are a couple things you have listed there that -- PROFESSORMARTIN: It's for you to put in there what you want. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I understand. I would think that -- well, I guess under that we would put the potable water issue. PROFESSOR MARTIN: We're not going to write these down, we're going to write down what you're saying. Let's go to environment and conservation. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Potable water. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Commissioner Matthews? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: This is, you know, protection. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Beaches? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 31 COHHISSIONER MATTHEWS: It depends on what you want to do with the beaches. The beaches are part of our economic package and renourishing them. We're doing that -- we're doing that, too, for safety purposes. COHHISSIONER SAUNDERS: I would say no, it goes with the environment and conservation. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I don't think I look at it as environmental conservation when I picture beaches. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Where would you -- would things like the Manarea Protection Ordinance, Just as an example, ! mean, that's a specific ordinance, but that's IOmlthing very topical that we're working on, our NRPAs, our Habitat Protection Ordinance. I mean, I don't know how you -- those are specifics. I don't know how you put those into a broader category. COH~ISSIONER SAUNDERS: I guess it,s regulation. MR. LORENZ: category. Protection of natural systems may be a COMMISSIONER VOLPE: ! think protection and preservation of natural systems, if that's -- COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Sounds good. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Sounds good. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 f 32 MR. LORENZ= and the NRPAs. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: COMMISSIONER NORRIS That would take care of the habitats Right. Conissioner Saunders, we had water over there in our category of essential services. How do you see potable water interfacing here in the environmental category? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Hore than likely there will be eome environmental regulations like NRPAs that will protect potable drinking areas. The Well Field Protection Program would also be an environmental regulation. I think all that would fit under that. It · ay be stretching it a bit. MR. HcNEES: You might call that potable water resource or water supply. PROFESSOR MARTIN: The thing is you're going to be putting it in two different categories and now you're going to be looking for two different areas of what are we doing here and what are we doing there. If you're going to consider it, put it in one place and put everything under potable water. MR. McNEES: What I'm saying is you've got two OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 33 issues and one is the supply issue and then one is the production or distribution issue. Essential service is the mechanical production and distribution of it. On the environmental side, you're talking about the resource issue. PROFESSOR MARTIN: And where is it going to come from in ten years. MR. McNEES: That's the resource. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Okay. Well then, identify that. Do you want to call this -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: We've got it as potable water. MR. McNEES: Potable water resource. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Add resource to that. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Add resource, yeah. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: One area that we're ultimately going to probably get into is air pollution. We haven't talked about that much. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Water quality as well. Not only the water quality of the potable water resource, but the water quality in the canals and basins. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just pollution? PROFESSOR MARTIN: Air pollution? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 34 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But they're two separate issues, right? I mean, Commissioner Saunders is talking' about air pollution and you're talking about water pollution. The Clean Air Act and all that, iS that something that we're going to get into that area? MR. LORENZ: We've been relying purely on the state and federal government for any type of air quality. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is there an issue that you have identified as an issue for our future? MR. LORENZ: The only issue that comes up is burning, open burning. That's an area where we receive a number of complaints year to year and somewhat gets a little bit more involved. Right now it's being permitted through the fire districts, but that's the only area that we see is something -- COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think we'll ultimately get into that. Undoubtedly there's going to be smokestack industries that are going to want to move to Collier County at some point in time and they may comply with state and federal law and we may want to be more strict. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Lorenz, aren't some of OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 the counties in Florida, haven't they adopted an automobile pollution law and they do periodic-checks on automobiles? MR. LORENZ: Yes. Most of the counties that do ' that are in what's called non-attainment areas. Those are areas of the state that cannot meet certain air quality standards. We're not in a non-attainment area. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So are we saying air and water Is that what we're saying? Are those the two Commissioner Saunders said air and Commissioner quality? issues? Matthews said water quality. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I'think one of the things we're trying to do with strategic planning is to look into the future. And I would think that as our population grows and our road system grows and we have more and more cars on the road and more and more people here, water and air quality are going to become issues. And we may want to take those on earlier and be ahead of the curve instead of taking them when they're already here and then we're behind the curve once again and play catch-up. PROFESSOR MARTIN: should we put down air quality OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 standards, or air quality, period? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS= Just air and water quality. PROFESSOR MARTIN: I notice from one of the other planning guides I see that Lee County or the next county up had mentioned air quality on their plans. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Could I just ask in terms of where we're going to put this under a category, are we going to end up with, this is a question, a quality of life category? I mean, I wonder if it's a -- is that an en~iroru~ental/conservation issue or is it a quality of life iseue? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: them. guess. That's pervasive on all of COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's the John Norris issue. We ~ust have to decide where does it fit best, I COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Overlay the whole thing. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: We're going to leave it right 36 there, air and water quality. PROFESSOR MARTIN: You don't have to come up with your complete list today. I'm hoping we can come up with the ~aJor areas. We can add to this list as necessary OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 37 when ve go forward to complete this. ~ybody else have suggestions as to what would go under -- CONMISSIONERVOLPE: I think one of the -- maybe this fits into the -- we haven't heard much talk about it, but in terms of green space. I'm not sure where all of that fits. Naybe Bill can help me in that regard. We're talking about greenbelts and we're talking about the interconnection between some of the natural systems. ! mean, does that fit under as the community begins to build out whether the green space and greenbelt -- MR. LORENZ: overall category. I think it could fit within this It could be part of that protection and preservation of natural systems as well. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That includes the greenbelts? COMHISSIONER SAUNDERS: One of the essential services that we did not list is parks. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Parks and recreation. CONHISSIONER SAUNDERS: I don't believe we did. And I think the greenways and the greenbelts would fit more under that because you're talking about areas for OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 pedestrians and bicyclists. You're not talking about preservation of necessarily of very valuable habitat. You're talking about preserving open space for people to enjoy. And I think that would fit better under essential services, under parks. COMNISSIONER VOLPEt But are parks and recreation really essential services? I mean, that's -- COMMISSIONER SAUNDERSc We need to debate that. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I guess I was thinking more of greenbelts in terms of an environmental issue, not necessarily for recreational purposes. I mean, that's why I was -- MR. LORENZ= When you get into the urban area, most of the greenways, I think Commissioner Saunders is correct most of the purpose really is for people. It's more of an aesthetic value, although there is certainly environmental benefits as well. objective as opposed to this. But that's the primary COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So it doesn't -- it really doesn't fit under the category of environment and conservation, it's really -- MR. LORENZ: If you're going to have a category OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 39 where you're going to look at parks, that probably is a good -- is a better fit for it. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Let me suggest that we need a category called non-essential services that would take in the parks and libraries and green space and the things that we don't absolutely have to do but which are certainly highly desirable things and things that the community expects us to do, even though they're not exactly essential when you do it. And maybe that's the category where we can fit this sort of thing. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We need to get a consensus first as to whether parks and recreation are essential and whether libraries are essential. There may not be a majority or unanimous vote on that issue. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Somehow I think there's not going to be, but during our budget hearing last week I think we agreed, maybe not fully, but they were not essential. And I would vote to say that parks are not exactly essential, although they're highly desirable. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I agree. Under essential I think if you don't have trash service or you don't have water and sewer you don't have livable conditions. You OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 4O can live -- it may be less enjoyable, but you can live without a library. I agree with what you say that it's certainly something we want to provide, but it doesn't fit in the literal sense of essential. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I would rate parks and recreation and libraries as essential. Maybe what we need to do instead of calling it essential versus non-essential -- George just wrote down on his little notebook here quality of life issues. Certainly libraries and parks are a very significant quality of life component. I hate for to us have a category that says non-essential services because as soon as you say something's non-essential you're going to have a lot of people saying, "Well, if it's non-essential, why do you do it?" COMMISSIONER VOLPE: COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: provide libraries and parks. I agree. It's essential that we You can say we can live without them, but there's no community in this country that lives without them. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 41 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: suggesting. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: It,s not an essential service. That's not what I'm If you say it's not essential, then I think it puts it into a category that's suspect right at the offset, and none of us want to say that. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I agree it's a quality of life issue. I don't think parks and recreation is an essential governmental service in the traditional sense; I mean, such as water, sewer, roads and the like. But I agree with you that it really would fit under the category of a real quality of life issue in terms of park and recreation. PROFESSOR MARTIN: You have two options here. here quality of life, or have a major category for quality of life. Put COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: ! think quality of life pervades the whole concept that we're working on. I see libraries and museums as -- or libraries, museums and parks as part of our health, safety and in the welfare component. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 42 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: under? pl~. COIqP~CODE: What category do we put it How about public services? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well, I wouldn't put it under essential services, myself. I mean, it doesn't fit under environ~ent. It doesn't fit under safety. But I for one wouldn't want to not provide services like this. Even as a budgetary purpose, we've got three categories and we lilt those categories as to, "Geez, if we really get in a tight budget situation what are we going to cut out first?# Well, you know, we're not going to cut out water and sewer letvice. We're not going to cut out the sheriff. We're not going to cut out those items we consider essential to maintaining a social environment, and certainly museums and parks and libraries are not in t. hat category. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: They're essential, but they're a little less essential. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah. They're essential, but they're not essential to maintaining the network of society. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 43 COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: X agree, but -- COMMISSIONERMATTHEWS: But they're essential. MR. CONRECODE: Call them public services. PROFESSOR MARTIN: It doesn't really matter what you call them in the long run, it matters what you're going to be planning for them as you address the process of planning. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We have a three-to-two vote at thie point that they are non-essential services. think -- is that what -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think we're just -- again, I said they're not essential services in the traditional sense. I'm agreeing with you that that really is a quality of life issue. If we're not going to separate the category of quality of life, then put them under essential services. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The other thing as Tom Just said, we can keep it under the category they're under now and call them public services. I think what we label them is fine, we can come up with any name we want. Let's just -- in a literal sense, the majority of the Board doesn't think it is literally essential~ OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 44 however, I don't think any of us think it's non-essential and we want to discard them. So if we can find a word or a phrase that gets the point across like "public services" or like "quality of life," let's put them up there and let's move on. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Do you want public services here or do you want to have a category? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Maybe under -- right now we have essential services. Maybe what we ought to do is have governmental services as the general category and essential services as the first part, or that may not be the right word, but in the second part would be the public services; (a) and (b) under governmental services. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And that would include your social services issue too, I mean, in terms of public health? Public health would be under that and then parks and recreation, library, museums, et cetera? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Is that going to be too big a category, though, if we call it governmental services and put everything underneath that? MRS. EDWARDS: So you're going to have two. You're going to have essential -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 45 PROFESSOR~ARTIN~ COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS= governmental services. MRS. EDWARDS~ Okay. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: that addresses -- No, not under that. Forget that. Strike out We're looking for a category PROFESSOR MARTINI The term that's used in the state statute is very clear and you may want to go back and consider that. What they say is health, safety, welfare and quality of life~ right out of the statute. Quality of life. I don't see anything wrong with that, but you can use it as a place to put a lot of these miscellanea that don't seem to be a major category but are important planning areas. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So you're suggesting we put it under a general category of quality of life? Well, that's what the statute says. I think that's an excellent concur. I'll agree with that. PROFESSOR MARTIN: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: suggestion. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 46 MRS. EDWARDS: Then you're going to have parks and rec? We'll say this is category four. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Libraries, museums. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Greenways? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That comes under parks and recreation. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Well, you don't want to build on every available acre. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And how does -- does public health fit under a quality of life issue? MRS. SKINNER= There are several things that I feel -- Just like animal control. That's got to be -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's not a quality o~ life issue. MRS. SKINNER: It is if you've got dogs and cats running over you and laying around dead and all that kind of thing. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's part of our safety issue. MRS. SKINNERo It is quality of life, too, to me. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How about public health? Where do we stand as a Board on the issue of public OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 47 health under our general category, whether that's a "quality of life" issue? HRS. SKINNER: Would we say health and welfare instead of public health? That would encompass all of our health concerns that we supply in this county. HRS. EDWARDS: Such as social services. MRS. SKINNER: Um-hum. PROFESSOR HARTIN: Do you want to add anything to the fourth category then, quality of life, at this point? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I'm sure that list will get quite long. PROFESSOR MARTIN: That category will grow as any of them will or can. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Where would you put the beach? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well, beach renourisl~ent. There's two serious reasons that ! see us doing it. One is economic because of the tourism and the other is a marsty issue for stor~ damage. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Which one is that, beaches? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, we're talking about beaches. Where should the beaches go, beach OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 48 rsnourish~snt and maintenance? CONMISSIO~VO~E: Isn't that under our economic development? It's got to go -- COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: ! see that as under tourism, under economic development. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I mean, we focus on recreational beaches. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's a benefit of beaches, but I think the real benefit of the beaches is to have something for the people here in Collier County to en~oy and the people that are here now. It's not ~ust for -- if vs put it under economic development, it sounds like it's purely a business. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Wavll ~ust ignore that 15 million dollars is coming from the tourist tax to fund it. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Or ignore the 160,000 people that live here. Which vould you rather ignore? COMMISSIONER SAUN~ERS: IVd rather ignore that it's coming from the tourist development tax. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: ! don't think it's ignoring one or the other, we ~ust need to place it somewhere. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 49 COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: It's not so much a safety issue, either. This is not going to be a storm protection project. It will provide some minimal storm protection, but -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Don't tell the state and federal government that, though, please. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: By definition it's not a storm protection project under the state and federal guidelines, but I think it's a real quality of life issue for the people here in Collier County today. The side benefit of it is that it will help the hotels, but the real beneficiaries are going to be the people living here now. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I don't think any of us are disagreeing, but we have under one of the other categories -- I mean, it is a natural resource. I mean, our beaches, and those are -- PROFESSOR MARTIN: It's part of the environment. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: In terms of protection and preservation of that natural resource. And if we're not to protect it are we renourishing it or are we renourishing it -- why are we renourishing the beach~ to OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 50 provide additional recreational beach for the residents? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: For the residents. I think that's the primary motivation. If you take the whole south end of the beach renourishment project in the City of Naples, for example, the ~eople in the city as well as the county residents who use those beaches are the ones that are really benefiting. The big hotels that are collecting the tax aren't benefiting from the entire project. They're only benefiting from a small portion of the project that front their properties. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: That's a little misleading to say Just the big hotels because I think when we talk about the tourist development we're not Just trying to develop for the big hotels. Any time you have visitors in town that impacts the entire economy. How much do we -- we collect all that money every year just for the four or five big hotels? the economy of the county. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: it. It was Just a suggestion. I think we're doing that for I don't care where you put OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 51 MRS. EDWARDS= yOU want it under quality of environment? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, we need some consensus. Do life or conservation and I'd prefer to see it under the focus under economic development because it really is, I think, a part of what, you know -- tourism is what, our second largest industry in the county? And people come to Collier County because of the quality of life issues, but also because of our beach. And that's why I think we're renourishing the beach. I'm not suggesting that we're ignoring those of us who were at the beach on Sunday, but -- okay. I'll be quiet. MRS. EDWARDS: The third, economic development. you want to begin a new category then with economic development and include that? PROFESSOR MARTIN: Yeah, because I don't think libraries have got much to do with economic development only as a side issue. The libraries are really for the people that live here on an ongoing basis, aren't they? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Let's go to five before we change our mind. Do OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 52 You'll get a chance to change your minds in your chambers. ~hat'e the next one? Economic development. And Commissioner Saunders had brought up the point of the Council of Economic Advisors. ~s. EDWARDS: renourishment here? PROFESSOR HARTIN: Did we decide we want beach This is a very important thing to document the planning process. Council of Economic Advisors. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: We've already done that. PROFESSOR HARTIN: Well, do we want to address ~hat, economic development? Commissioner Saunders had recommended this as a happening. They were not acting as a council to try to coordinate the various economic identities in the county. CO~ISSIONERVOLPE: Well, you're really talking about a public/private partnership, aren't we, about the relationship between government and the private sector, I guess. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Just trying to get them to~ether to form a council so that there would be input from OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 53 various parts of the county and a consensus then could be gained. COHNISSIONERVOLPE: Someplace under the general category of economic development we have to put our econolic elelent of our GroUch Managelent Plan which is detailed by the staff and where they've got -- PROFESSOR HARTIN: Capital projects? COHNISSIONERVOLPE: No, ! think so. ! think it really is the outline of our economic element. ! Just -- I agree with you as you've said that we have a Council of Econolic Advisors, but that all seems to fit under the general category of -- PROFESSOR MARTIN: That was your recommendation a ~eeting ago. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS= Well, I think that would be an item under economic development as well as the econolic element of the Comprehensive Plan would be an item under economic development. COMMISSIONER VOLPE= What I'm saying is in terms of our strategic planning the process includes the adoption of the economic element of our Growth Management Plan, which is a process that's underway. And under that OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 54 general element comes the implementation through a Council of Economic Advisors, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The economic advisors would have input and would provide assistance in developing the economic element. But the economic element would be under, you know, could very well be (a) under economic development. PROFESSOR HARTIN: That's what we're talking about is putting the council under economic development. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Exactly. PROFESSOR MARTIN: And one of your major things was tourism. So this is where tourism should fit. There was another recommendation made in one of the meetings called diversify the base of our economics, economic diversification. He mentioned smokestacks a little while ago. If you're going to bring in heavy industry, you're going to get smokestacks. Whether that's desirable or not, it has to be addressed at some planning session. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Are there any of those industries left? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 I III IIIIII II I iiiiii PROFESSORMARTIN: COHMISSIONERVOLPE: industries left? PROFESSOR MARTIN: Pardon? Are there any of those Oh, yes. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: There's a lot inquiries from the steel industry looking to move down here. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: They're building one in Lee County, the resource recovery plant. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The resource recovery plant? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: It's a smokestack. PROFESSOR MARTIN:- And electric power plants have smokestacks. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's where they had the big blowup, isn't it? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Ship building. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Building electricity. They have a lot of -- if they use coal, there's a lot of smoke. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: One of the other categories that we had was agriculture. And under our category we had maintain agriculture as a basic economic industry. So I don't know whether that fits under -- if that needs to be specifically identified. We talked about tourism. 55 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 56 COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS.' I think if we -- for item (¢) if we Just look at diversifying because right now we have two main economic bases. agriculture, tourism -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Three? We have Construction. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS= Okay, but all three are subject to variations in the economic health of this nation anH they can all three come unHer the same economic woes at the same time. AnH it woulH be nice to try to move away from having all of our industry subject to the same economic woes. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS= So one of the goals is to diversify the economic base, which would be a (c) underneath that. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS= I think so. PROFESSOR MARTIN: So would you want to put agriculture as (a)? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Wouldn't agriculture, or tourism for that matter, eventually be covered under the economic element? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think there's two thinus we want to do. One is we want to diversify the economic OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 base, which we're not sure what that means yet. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: others. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We want to strengthen And then we want to enhance existing economies, which would include tourism and agriculture and building. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: For instance, under agriculture one of the interesting things that I discovered a few weeks ago is that Collier County has the ability for some reason, soil-wise, whatever, to grow the best pineapples in the world, but we don't grow them. PROFESSOR MARTIN: No, because they had a plant here about eight or ten years ago and it failed. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well, part of the problem with that was that -- was it Dole that had a plant? ¥eah, Dole. And Hershey bought Dole and Hershey looked at it and said, "Why are we growing pineapples in Collier County?" Even though it was a very small trial program, Hershey decided, #Well, we don't want to do that anymore." PROFESSOR MARTIN: COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: It was successful. It was successful. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 58 COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: #e've got a bunch of pineapples at my house. COMHISSIONER MATHEWS: But at the same time, what's going on now in Hawaii -- Hawaii's pulling out of the pineapple market. And if we have the best conditions for growing pineapples, maybe we should be looking into getting some of that here. PROFESSOR~RTIN: Sure. Part of the plan would be to try to encourage some large agricultural producer to co~e do~rn here with the idea in mind of let's start growing pineapples again in southwest Florida. COHHISSIONER VOI~E: But is what you're saying, Conissioner Matthews -- I mean, we're really trying to provide an environment. I mean, it's not my Job to go out necessarily and say, #Hey, come to Collier County and ~ pineapples or oranges or avocados." I mean, we provide a business climate and then the entrepreneurs in But I'm ~ust stating that's this world -- COMMISSIONER HATTHEWS: one of the economic agricultural things that's going on in the world right now. Hawaii's pulling out of that ~arket. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 59 #e have the ability here to grow the best pineapples in the world, yet we don't have any infrastructure for sliding into that market. And that's what our council of advisors could be doing in helping us diversify not Just the economic base, period, but diversify the agricultural part, too. I mean, there's lots of things that are happening in the world that we're not taking advantage of. MRS. EDWARDS: We have some representatives here from soil conservation. make? MR. POLIZOS: Do you have any comments to I'm Tony Polizos. I'm district conservationist for the Soil Conservation Service here in Collier County. Some of the things that agriculture is looking into, currently agriculture is growing very slowly, particularly in the citrus industry because of prices. The vegetable industry is pretty much at a standstill also. In fact, it's slightly declining. I think agriculture is going to look for different crops here in the near future and look for diversification of crops. And that certainly is a OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 6O possibility of looking into the pineapple industry as a means of diversification. So it is a possibility and perhaps worth looking into. PROFESSOR MARTIN= So should we put agriculture here under economic development? Is that where it belongs? COHMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Definitely. I think so. PROFESSOR HARTIN: One. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Yeah. PROFESSOR HARTIN: Two. Three? COMMISSIONER NORRIS= Three. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Four? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I don't have an objection. I'm Just wondering why we're singling out agriculture as opposed to tourism as opposed to construction. I mean, if we're talking about -- we know what our existing industries are. If we're talking about diversification of the economic base, that includes expansion and getting into new areas, but we're really -- those are essentially the three industries. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I wasn't really looking at OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 61 agriculture as being a separate item on its own, but I was looking at under the diversified economic base we can take existing industries that we have and diversify them and stabilize them even more. And that's what I was -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How about oil exploration? MRS. EDWARDS: So you want this to be a sub? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You're laughing. No, you should not be laughing because there's a bill that's been entered -- COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Off the coast? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: No, here. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: No, I mean, off the coast of Naples, oil exploration? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: No, I mean here, in the Everglades area and in the Big Cypress -- COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I know they're trying. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- area in terms of oil exploration, other than out in the rural areas. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: There's a lot of oil wells there and they're producing real well. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And they'd like to produce some more. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 62 COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's here. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: If it's -- That's an existing business. Yeah. Well, that's an environmental issue, too, as to how many wells do you want floating around out there. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I only raise the issue because we're talking about pineapples and I was talking about oil wells and I -- COMMISSIONERMATTHEWS: COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's fine. I think what we're going to be doing when we talk about diversifying the economic base and start talking in terms of enhancing the existing economic base in some way, we also are going to add the caveat as to what types of businesses do we want in Collier County. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I agree. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We don't want polluting industries. We have no real say over who's going to drill oil wells out in the Everglades, but we certainly aren't going to take a position as a Commission that we want to promote off-shore drilling or that type of OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 63 indus~:~y. So when we get to it, we're going to be talking about what types of industries, what types of dsvelopmento Right now we're Just saying generally we want to diversify the economic base. That doesn't mean we want to bring everything in. ¢01~ISSIONER VOLPE: So maybe what we should do is when we talk about diversification or enhancement of existing economic base but somehow put some parameters around ~.hat that, you know, the sensitivity that we al! share for the quality of life and our environmental issues that have been identified previously. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We could add a word and say appropriate diversification of the economic base and say appropriate enhancement of the existing economic base. And then we can define what we mean by "appropriate." COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Let's not get bogged down. PROFESSOR HARTIN: The idea is you can do anything with these categories as far as the planning is concerned after deterRining it's a category. When we talk about the agricultural here, we're talking about existing agriculture. And up here we're OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 64 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI.ES, Fl. 33962 talking about t.~e possibility of bringing in pineapple, which would be diversification. They're both similar but different aspects. These are here now and these aren't. Is there anything you need to be doing in your planning to help the present situation of citrus and vegetables? Agree? Any more should go on here for now? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If we're going to list agriculture, ! think we do need to list a couple others. PROFESSOR HARTIN: Okay. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think we do need to list tourism. We're talking about beach renourishment as a tourist project. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Tourism. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And construction. I mean, that's the third largest industry in our community. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I'm not sure they belong as (d), (e) and (f). MRS. EDWARDS: You want them to be a sub of -- COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: My feeling is they're really more subs of (c). (a) is the development of the economic element of 65 the Growth Management Plan; (b) is the advisors~ and (c) is diversifying our economy and diversifying existing economic means. So I could see (d), (e) and (f) more as 1, 2 and 3 under (c). COMMISSIONER VOLPE: PROFESSOR MARTIN: COMMISSIONER NORRIS: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I agree. Agree? Agree. Did we do quality of life yet? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah. MR. SMYKOWSKI: Parks, libraries, museums. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. Because one of the issues that we touched on was education and educational environment. And I think that that really is a quality of life issue, generally. And someone mentioned at least last night at our meeting, I think, the issue came up about the tenth state university and how that will help, or may help or may not help. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's part of the economic development, I think, to take advantage of that. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's my question, does it fit under quality of life? We haven't touched on OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 66 education and I'm not sure if we want to, if we want to include it on the list. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Well, you can put it in advanced planning and then you can make a statement about it. COHMISSIONER VOLPE: I'd like to suggest that we put it under quality of life, education. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Before you write it, let's see if we have consensus because I thought we went through this once before and we didn't see education as a topic that we were all -- certainly the university is part of our economy and so on, but I don't think -- last time I don't think we agreed that education was one of the topics we wanted -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS= It's a topic we have very little input on, frankly, and -- COMMISSIONERMATTHEWS: The education itself, not that we can't take advantage economically of the fact that the school is coming. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's true, but that's handled under another category, economic development. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I agree. COMMISSIONER VOLPEt Well, the new eight million OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 14 67 dollar educational cultural center that's being planned in the North Naples Planning Com~unity is an educational and cultural aspect of this community which I believe is a very important focus of the quality of life issue. It certainly is as important as -- well, I don't want to say as important, but it seems to me that somehow we ought to identify it. I mean, are we involved in the process? I guess we're not. So I mean, if that's -- if there's anything that we can do as a governing body to encourage that sort of development, maybe we should do that. But if what you're saying, John, is that education is a function of the School Board and so therefore we shouldn't -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I'm just saying it's a topic that we have very little input other than at this point of probably a zoning matter or zoning related matters or something to that effect. I think anything beyond that might be handled under the economic development aspect of what we've talked about. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: ! agree with Commissioner Volpe that listing that under quality of life is appropriate, and here's why: Just as an example, Myra OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 68 Daniels is attempting to raise seven or eight million dollars for an arts and dance and theater educational facility out in Pelican Bay. She's asked all the County Commissioners to write letters to her expressing our support as individual Co~missioners for their efforts to raise state and federal money. And they're going to engage in local fundraising for that. So if we have in our plan emphasis on enhancing and supporting those educational oppor~unities, that might benefit people like Myra Daniels. The cultural and educational foundation or center undoubtedly will be looking for some local support; if not monetary, at least moral support in looking for agencies that will provide funding. So I think having it as a line item, even though we don't get that heavily involved in education, might be of some benefit. And I think it is a real quality of life issue also. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Vote? Maybe we should vote. There's been some differences of opinion. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I could see education in the arts if you want to -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 69 COKHISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, I don't know why we'd want to limit it. We've got some other universities here also that from time to time look to us for some moral support, the International College and -- COMHISSIONERVOLPE: Edison Community College. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: What's the one that Nino Spagna has? Is that International College? PROFESSOR MARTIN: International. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So I think we might be of some value to them if we are placing some emphasis, even if it's Just moral support, on those types of educational issues. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I count three, so put it on there. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Vote on education as a -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Quality of life issue. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Quality of life~ (d), for now. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And John, under ELMS III legislation we are required to coordinate, cooperate and involve ourselves in the decision-making process with the School Board. So even though we don't fund schools, they're supposed to be planning with us and we're OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 .14 7O supposed to be planning with them. So even though we haven't had much of a say in the past, maybe we'll have a little bit more say in the future. COM]4ISSIONER NORRIS: We'll see. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Do you want to move on to effective governance now? CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Anybody object to about a five-minute break? PROFESSOR MARTIN: Take ten. (A break was had from 10:25 a.m. until 10:40 a.m. and proceedings continued as follows:) PROFESSOR MARTIN: We've got about an hour and ten minutes, an hour and nine minutes, before we conclude. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Just keeping track, huh? PROFESSOR MARTIN: I think a category that you may want to address now would be effective governance. Does everybody agree they want to talk about effective governance? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Sounds good. PROFESSOR MARTIN: You're next. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Can I just mention one thing back on the safety thing? It was mentioned on the break OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS~ COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 71 to me one of the things we don't have on there is disaster preDatedheSS. put on there. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Let's find that. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Is that emergency management? CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS ~ talking about? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Safety. MRS. EDWARDS: Safety? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS.' Emergency management. PROFESSOR MARTIN= CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS= HRS. EDWARDS: Okay. Seems like something we should Whatever the head was. Essential services, you're Disaster preparedness. Emergency medical. Disaster preparedness? PROFESSOR MARTIN= Yeah, like for hurricanes and earthquakes and 40-inch snowfalls. MRS. EDWARDS= Effective governance? PROFESSOR MARTIN: Wait and see if they agree first. Who wants to start off on effective governance? I L L OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 72 Some of ~he ~himgs ~hat were mentioned and passed were efficiency, downsizing, leadership and change. And Commissioner Norris had one and -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Privatization. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Privatization. Let's hear from anybody. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I'd like to see under that category as well a comment that ! asked about, EL~S XII, having to do wi~h governmental interaction. You're saying in ter~s of coordination and cooperation. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Okay. Under that, Commissioner Saunders, efficiency. Are you the one that brought up efficiency? COMMXSSXONER SAUNDERS: X think we all did. PROFESSOR HARTIN: Okay. Should we put efficiency down then? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I guess the wording was development and strategies and programs to ensure increased efficiency and cost effectiveness, but everybody had that. PROFESSOR ~AARTIN: All right. Well, let's put it dow~ then to make sure because that's really a consensus OFFXCXAL COU~T REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 Do you want to address downsizing? HR. HARGETT: I would say right-sizing. PROFESSOR HARTIN: Is that a word? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: t~ese days, right-sizing. PROFESSOR HARTIN: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think that's the word Discussion? ! think that was last year's word. 19947 ! don't think it's this year's word. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: What's the right word for COMHISSIONERVOLPE: We're talking about empowerment and other things. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Isn't that really part of the efficiency? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Right. PROFESSOR HARTIN: All right. Do you want to eliminate that? Has leadership been changed? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I'm not sure. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Did you say change in leadership? 73 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 74 COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS= Are we talking about -- under that category, are we talking about changing government or are we talking about a change in the leadership or -- PROFESSORMARTIN: the time, but it's out of the notes from the past meetings. Somebody brought it up. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: that one. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I don't know who presented it at I think Dick Clark suggested Under the category -- PROFESSOR HARTIN: Maybe it was on privatization. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: There's a redundancy there. The category is effective governance and first is efficiency. Isn't it the issue -- is the issue overall Is there a difference Yes, there is. And we're drawing that governance and then efficiency? between effective and efficient? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: distinction? We are drawing that distinction? PROFESSOR MARTIN: You can be effective but not efficient at the same time. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. I'm asking is there a OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 75 distinction that we're drawing between. PROFESSOR MARTIN: ¥eah. In fact, somebody brought it up in connection with Peter Drucker's (phonetic) explanation of that, which is kind of a textbook category of that. COHMISSIONER VOLPE: Does efficient include the general category of coordination and cooperation between city, county, School Board? PROFESSOR MARTIN: No, I think that should be another category. I think that should be a separate category, personally. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Intergovernmental cooperation or coordination. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Yeah, coordination and cooperation. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Put that down. Do you want to make some remarks about privatization, Commissioner Norris? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, I think we've remarked on those in the last meeting. The consensus was that if we can identify areas that are suitable for privatization we certainly want to take a look at them and perhaps OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 implement them. PROFESSOR MARTIN~ And you are about to appoint a co~ittee to that effect right now, aren't you? COMMISSIONER ¥0LPE: Is privatization a subcategory of efficiency, or is that a separate category? And is it important or isn't it? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: It's probably a separate subcategory. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Well, there's two things here. You have to be efficient with the operating department you now have~ privatization as an outgrowth of that if they're not efficient, or if you can do it more effectively and more efficiently on a private basis. I think the government maybe ought to consider that with their post office. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: We don't want to get into that business this year. PROFESSOR MARTIN: All right. So under effective governance, what other categories would you -- what other subissues would you like to include in there at this point? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 77 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: We had a category condensing legislation; develop and implement a process regarding legislation such as the LDC. Is effective governance in the old Republican tradition less government, or has that become efficiency? PROFESSOR MARTIN: I never joined,' myself. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. PROFESSOR MARTIN: That's for you to determine. I'm not a card-carrying member. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I'm afraid we're going to have to find a replacement for you. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: volunteer. PROFESSOR MARTIN: I'm going to quit anyway. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: benefits there. PROFESSOR MARTIN: that were brought up. MRS. EDWARDS: It's a good thing he's a If you don't double my salary, He wants some retirement There were some other subjects Were you thinking of one? No. I was Just going to ask if there was any more expansion on this before we go to another one. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 78 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: consolidation. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: COHMISSIONERVOLPE: How about, Just a thought, Fire districts? Well, I think it's been coming the other way now. ! Lean, there's the conversations about consolidation going the other way with EMS going into independent fire control and rescue districts. Is that a subject that -- we pursued for that three years, I guess, and it came to a conclusion this year. Or consolidation -- I mean, is there any other instance of consolidation that we see? One of the things I think Co~lssioner Constantine had talked about was this round table with the constitutional officers and with the Chairman of the Board. efficient or is that -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: under (b) or not? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: okay. Is that somehow That's under -- would that be Coordination and cooperation, I don't have any others. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah. PROFESSOR MARTIN: You can put it anyplace you want OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 79 as long as you understand what you want to do with your planning process to enhance that category. How about more use of public opinion and committees and town hall meetings and that? one time. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That was brought up at You've got on your chart under efficiency you've got volunteerism and that sort of It needs to be on that. It needs to be in thing there. there. PROFESSOR MARTIN: If you agree. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Part of efficiency. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Where you want to -- do you want to put down volunteerism here? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: too in the court system. I think that becomes important Paul, you've got a lot of volunteers -- do you have a fair number of volunteers in your programs in court administration? MR. BRIGHAM: Over a hundred volunteers are involved. And there are certainly a lot of pluses to that and certainly a lot of challenges to that. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Martha, do you have volunteers in your social services? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 8O MRS. SKINNER: They haven't worked out. We've tried and tried but the work's too hard, I think. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I Just spoke at R.S.V.P. this last week and they gave me some statistics and between, not including the court system, but between what falls under BCC and what falls under the sheriff they had I think like 9200 hours in 1993 of volunteer hours for us, for different capacities. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I guess the point is I think it's a good category that -- CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I do, too. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- in terms of consolidating that effort. Didn't we even talk about at some point coordinating the volunteer program, if it isn't already? Is there a volunteer program under any particular office? MRS. SKINNER: No, but our lead team is working on that with our Q-Plus in our division. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: mean from Social Services? MRS. SKINNER: Public Services. trying to work out something on that. Who's "our lead team"? You Public Services is OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 81 COMMISSIONER VOLPE~ Paul, who do you coordinate your volunteer program with? MR. BRIGHAM: We were asking for a volunteer coordinator in the next budget cycle. COMMISSIONER VOLPE= And didn't get it, right? MR. HARGETT: MR. BRIGHAM: budget. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: It's in ours. County Manager's discretionary All right. MRS. SKINNER: I think the county would really benefit from having one. MR. BRIGHAM: The perspective was something wider than the courts. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think it's an important category. PROFESSORMARTIN: Any other categories at this time? Okay. be more suggestions coming from this group, but the one that I made that we haven't addressed yet was growth management. And you did put part of it under one of the past categories. I only made a few suggestions. There should OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 _ I 82 Do you want to have a category per se on growth management as a ma~or planning category? I know you have a lot of input on it already that you could include, but -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE= Aren't we in the process of -- who's here? In terms of updating our five-year under our Growth Management Plan, isn't that a major initiative this year? year. Probably during the end of this coming COMMISSIONER HR. ARNOLD: Appraisal Report. What's it called again? It's an E.A.R., Evaluation and It's required every five years. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Every five years, so it's happening, but I mean -- I guess if it's not identified it really should be. Everyplace we go people are talking about issues relating to growth management, but it is a general category that relates to transportation, solid waste and all the essential services. HR. McNEES: Haven't you covered all the elements of that through the other categories? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Probably we have. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLI~IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 83 HRS. SKINNER: One element that hasn't been covered and ! would like to see it as a separate element is health and social services. We haven't covered it under essential or safety or any other matter. COHHISSIONER VOLPE: We're dependinq upon the Clinton administration to take care of all that. HRS. SKINNER: Well, if they don't -- or, if they do, they're not qoinq to cover ever~chinq we need. But I'd like to see that as a component. COHHISSIONERVOLPE: I aqree. COHHISSIONER SAUNDERS: health. COMMISSlONER VOLPE: A separate category for And social services? HRS. SKINNER: COMMISSIONER NO~IS: already been taken. HRS. SKINNER: Okay. ¢OHHISSIONER NORRIS: Health and human services? Health and human services has We won't use that then. Health and social services. PROFESSOR MARTIN: MRS. SKINNER: components. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I thought we had health. We didn't add it to one of the other I thouqht we were talkinq OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33362 84 about putting that under our quality of life public services. MRS. SKINNER: We never did. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I don't know. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Didn't we write that down someplace? MRS. SKINNER: No. thought it was safety but it was not put into any of the categories. I'd really like to see it as a separate component. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The quality of life things we kind of left for items that were considered kind of non-essential. MRS. SKINNER: Non-essential. Those are not. be. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I don't know. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: We felt it was essential and we I think public health would Communicable disease I would think is pretty essential. We can't let some of these old buggers get loose, can we? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think we want to have a separate category for health. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So that's seven. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 85 PROFESSOR MARTIN= That's fine. Health and? COMMISSIONER VOLPE= Social services. MRS. SKINNER: Social services. PROFESSOR MARTIN= All right. would you like to include? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Indigent health care. PROFESSOR MARTIN= Okay. COMMISSIONER VOLPE= Just a suggestion. PROFESSOR MARTIN= Indigent health? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS= Yes. We have to do it. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yes, we have to. Communicable disease. MRS. SKINNER= Would that be under public health maybe? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I kind of thought of that as being all encompassing. MRS. EDWARDS= What? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Com~unicable disease. PROFESSOR MARTIN= Wait a minute. Doctor Polkowski? DR. POLKOWSKI: I'd like to add in certainly communicable disease and health care. Environmental Now, what categories OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 86 health is also part of health, you know, when you talk about issues like septic tanks and water and all that. That's also part of health. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Shouldn't actually all three of those suggestions be covered under public health? DR. POLKOWSKI: Those are the three major categories of public health: Primary care or indigent health care; communicable disease control, which are population based services; and then environmental health services. MRS. SKINNER: Probably environmental h~alth would be -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: mission statement or is that public health addressed -- DR. POLKOWSKI: It's in the state statute. Doctor Polkowski, is that your COMMISSIONER VOLPE: statute? DR. POLKOWSKI: Yes. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So it's defined in the state Those are the three areas. So we're saying that it's public health and then under public health as 1, 2 and 3, which is indigent health care, environmental health and primary health care, is that what you're saying as well? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 87 DR. POLKOWSKI: Well, the state statute actually divides it into communicable disease control, primary health service and environmental health service. So indigent health care is not really a separate category. MRS. SKINNER: Public health's under what you are doing, but it's very much so under social services and indigent health care. Indigent health care, yes. DR. POLKOWSKI: Okay. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's a big part of your budget. MRS. SKINNER: for indigent. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You haven't been back to us recently, but I assume we'll see you. MRS. SKINNER: No. No, we're doing fine. We're doing okay. PROFESSOR MARTIN: You don't hear that very often. Okay. We've got it right now health and social services, public health, indigent health care. And what are we going to put for 2 and 3? MRS. EDWARDS: I think we were going to break public health into Dr. Polkowski's three. Yes, definitely; even mandated costs OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 88 DR. POLKOWSKI: Communicable disease control, primary care and environmental health. MRS. EDWARDS: So No. I -- PROFESSORMARTIN: Communicable disease control. DR. POLKOWSKI: environmental health. PROFESSOR MARTIN: And then primary care and then Primary care and environmental health. DR. POLKOWSKI: MRS. SKINNER: under that. COMMISSIONER HATTHEWS: services, ! quess. PROFESSOR MARTIN: b~ -- Does that satisfy you? That's defined by statute. Then indigent health care would come Item (b) would be social Would that be (b) or would that CO~ISSlONER HATTHEWS: (b). MRS. SKINNER: Put (b) as social services and under that indigent health care. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Okay. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Martha, what's the budget this year in that area, do you recall? MRS. SKINNER: If you're talking about services for OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 89 seniors, too, it's almost three million dollars. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Three million? MRS. SKINNER: Down from 3.3. PROFESSOR~RTIN: Discussion? MR. McNEES: Question of whether you want to consider some sort of category, for lack of a better word, for hardship provisions. You've got now built in a couple of the utilities items, hardship provisions. Are those not really social services more than they are utility Issues, and do we need some sort of overall policy what county services we're going to pay for if other people can't afford them, or should there be some -- CONNISSIONERVOLPE: That's easy. MR. NcNEES: If we're doing it, we're calling it a utility issue and to me it's not a utility issue it's a social service issue. There needs to be some sort of overall frame work for what are we going to pay for for the people who can't or what kind of breaks are we going to give them. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You're talking about deferrals? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 9O MR. McNEES: whole social service nature of some frame work for them. MRS. SKINNER: On your deferrals, aren't you getting into low income housing and all that? Deferrals, hardships, waivers, the those types of things and Well, that's what I was That, to me, wouldn't go under that COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: going to bring up. MRS. SKINNER: at a11. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well, I think under health and social services as a broad picture of affordable housing program very much could be. MRS. SKINNER: Yeah. Okay. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Martha, do you handle vouchers? Who handles the vouchers for housing assistance? That's under -- HUD housing, Section 8. Is that all Fred Thomas, -- MRS. SKINNER: HUD. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: MRS. SKINNER: Well, -- COHMISSIONER VOLPE: -- Section 8? MRS. SKINNER: And Greg Mihalic. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So isn't that -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 91 MRS. SKINNER: That would be a part of it. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- social services, of a kind that relates to housing? MRS. SKINNER: Section 8 housing. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So would we put that under here and maybe that might take up some part of -- it's a housing issue, isn't it? Is it a housing issue, that you're talking about, utilities? MR. McNEES: It's all kinds of issues. It's what are we going to subsidize. It's housing. It's utilities, which relates to housing, -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Right. MR. McNEES: -- I guess. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Do you want to use that word, subsidy, subsidize? MRS. EDWARDS: Subsidized programs? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I'd prefer not to. MRS. SKINNER: Do you want to put your -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: COMMISSIONER NORRIS: It's a subsidy item. PROFESSOR MARTIN: John wants to use subsidy. Might as well tell the truth. Obviously you carry it on your OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 92 books. What do you call it on your books? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: It's not -- Tax-payer handouts. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Should we put under that -- the category social services we're talking about health care. I think the next category has to do with either Section 8 housing or housing, entry level housing, affordable housing, subsidized. I mean, I'm tryin~ to get into the category of housing. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: We call it affordable housing now. I would prefer not to call it Section 8 housing because -- I mean, we've done a lot of work in the last two, three years separating in the public's mind the difference between affordable housing and Section 8. I would really not like to see us come back and call it Section 8 housing. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But in my view affordable housing, entry level, is something entirely different than Section 8 or HUD. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: It's very different. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: In my view, affordable housing is not a social services issue at all. I mean, I'm OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 93 not -- ! donVt think that people who are looking at entry level housing consider the= to -- consider themselves to b~ recipients of any type of government subsidies. COHHI$SIONER NORRIS: Oh, ! disagree. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: The impact fee waivers, ! very much see that -- COHHISilONER NORRIS: We give them a density bonus. #e give them impact fee deferrals or waivers, and those are subsidies. COKNIS$IONER VOLPE: But weVre not waiving -- where are we waiving on impact fees except for Habitat for Humanity? CO~qI$$IONERNORRI$: Home ownership waivers. COMHISSIONER HATTHEWS: Hardship program is al! home ownership with waivers and renovation costs that they can get for it. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I see -- my personal view is that ! see Section 8 housing as a social service. That's so~ething in my mind -- I don't know how to articulate something different than affordable housing, whether it's ho~. ownership or we're doing deferrals, in my mind they're different. You don't want to confuse the two, OFFICXAI~ COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI~ 33962 and I'm agreeing. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: tWO, ~O. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: housing -- I don't think affordable housing goes under social services at all. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: COMMISSIONER NORRIS: 94 don't want to confuse the just don't think affordable Okay. I -- That's my view. Let me Just -- maybe this'11 help in the way you view it. Let's Just say that affordable housing and Section 8 are both subsidized housing; one of them to a very small degree and one to a large degree. There is actual county dollars being subsidized into our affordable housing program. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But there are federal dollars in our HUD program. So are there any -- Section 8, are there any local dollars in the Section 8 housing? MRS. SKINNER: I'm not that aware. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: What difference does it make? This is our plan, not the federal government's plan. I see affordable housing as a social service. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I agree. I'm not sure ; OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 where else you could put it. It is a social service in the sense that we are providing a benefit to a group of people that could not afford housing if it wasn't for that benefit, and I think housing should go in there. I agree with Mike also that the programs that we have, hardship programs, should go under social services also. We may not want to call it that. it's that, but -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, the only problem that I'm having is I guess that I always think of social services as another name for welfare, and I don't view people who participate generally in our affordable housing programs as fitting into the category of welfare recipients. I do, however, view people who are living in Section 8 housing as being welfare recipients. And I guess welfare is not a word we use in the 1990s, but that's where -- I mean, I'm trying to make a point. Maybe we've got another place where we can talk about affordable housing in terms of what we need to do as it relates to either -- if it's under economic development, as a part of economic development, we need We may not think OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 96 to provide affordable housing for the blue collar workers who are providing the service for our industries. And that's what we talk about the school teacher, the policeman, the guy that works in the hospital. We're talking about maybe that's where it fits better than putting it under -- I think that -- I've said what I have to say. I'm repeating myself and I'm sorry. PROFESSOR MARTIN: How about subsidized programs? That's what it is. MR. BRIGHAM: How about housing issues and not make it any more specific than that? Housing issues, and as you spell it out make it specific. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The way we address Section 8 housing, we moved it out of the -- we've supplemented that program and we moved Fred Thomas into Development Services? Is he in Development Services now? He's got an office there now? MR. ARNOLD: No, he's located over in the Collier complex with the utilities. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Right. And we've got a tie into Section 8 housing that we didn't have before in terms of how we're trying to address the voucher system OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 97 and the like. That's -- that, in my view, is an entirely different program than density bonus credits or waivers or deferrals of impact fees. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: There's no question about it, it's a totally different program. Nonetheless, it's still a government subsidy. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So let's say -- somebody suggested subsidized housing as a category, which would cover all of the types of housing we're dealing with because affordable housing with the density bonuses and the impact fee credits is a subsidized housing. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Um-hum. It just is. We're Just allowing the builder to put more units in than would ordinarily be allowed. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: In this particular case, as I didn't very correctly articulate last time we had a public hearing on this, the way we're going about it subsidizes -- in the case of the larger apartment groups, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 98 we are subsidizing the developer more than we're subsidizing the recipient of the housing. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We are requiring that subsidy to be passed on to the tenants in the rates that they pay. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well, we're stressing the -- we're stressing the infrastructure that the county supplies to meet the density bonuses that we give them. I mean, if we grant density bonuses increasing something from 6 to 12 units per acre, I mean, there's X number of more stress on the water and sewer systems and X stress more on the school capacity, the libraries. The whole thing is stressed more. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Why don't we -- after the discussion, why don't we just put under social services -- we've talked about health care. Why don't we put housing? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Housing subsidies. PROFESSOR MARTIN: But is it Just housing? MRS. EDWARDS: Housing/hardships? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Housing subsidies or subsidized housing. It's not just plain housing. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 20 99 PROFESSOR HARTIN.' which would lncluds housing? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: progTans, too. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: subheadings would be housing, ~hsn -- COHHISSIONER NORRIS: How about subsidized prograas, We've got the hardship Subsidy programs and then subsidized housing and Utilities perhaps. PROFESSOR HARTIN: Would you be satisfied with subsidized programs now and you can further define it when you start your progression into the planning process? Is there a budget set up for it now? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Hardly. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: We cut and paste the budget as we need to is what we're doing right now. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Putting out fires. Okay. Any note on -- COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We create the budgets as the courts direct us to on the housing issues. PROFESSOR HARTIN: Any other -- COMMISSIONERVOLPE: Under social services we're OFFXCXAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 lo0 talking about health; we're talking about the issues of #subsidized# housing? MRS. SKINNER: I hate to bring up any more, but some of them are by state statute and that's animal That's -- I don't know where you want to control again. put it. me. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's a safety issue, to MITS. SKINNER: Safety? Well then let's put it with safety. Like I say, I hate to bring it up, but it's so necessary. COI~3~ISSIONERVOLPE: How much of a focus do we need to spend on animal control? I mean, in terms of a category. MRS. SKINNER: Well, it's a necessary service that we have to provide. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But I mean, is there anything new and different that we need to do with it? PROFESSOR MARTIN: Didn't you just increase the fine recently for -- COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's the only issue that's been significant enough to get us into the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 lol National Enquirer. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That was before we changed the ordinance to allow complaints to be filed. That was last year's -- PROFESSOR MARTIN: We'll need to hire a PR firm. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well, we did, the National' Enquirer. MRS. EDWARDS: Do you want to include animal control and safety? PROFESSOR MARTIN: Do you want to put animal control under safety then? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I think it's more of a safety issue. MRS. SKINNER: Than a human service issue? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yes. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Even though there's some people that would like to put animal services above human services. PROFESSOR H~RTIN: MRS. SKINNER: Yes. out there. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Would that include snakes? Yes, we do have some snakes killed one at ten o'clock the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 102 other night taking out my solid waste, my garbage. I thought it was a coral snake but it wasn't, it was a king. They look so much alike. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Under that category, different times -- I mean, in terms of strategic planning, animal control, at different times we've talked about the Humane Society and whether that comes in under volunteerism. And I guess what I'm suggesting, Martha, is that under that category -- I mean, what do we -- what are we trying to do in terms of the five-year time frame and to categorize regarding -- MRS. SKINNER: Right now we're trying to get an incinerator in and it's taking forever to do that. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But that's -- DR. POLKOWSKI: There is a significant health issue 'potentially with animals such as break outs of rabies that have occurred in a number of counties in Florida. It is a big potential. PROFESSOR MARTIN: on health and social services? Okay. Now, what we're going to do here is we're going to show you your list as approved so far this Discussion? Any more discussion OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 103 morning. Here they are. Get another look at them. If there's any additional categories that we haven't covered yet, this would be the time to bring them forward. We'll duplicate all of this and give a handout to you sometime next week I would imagine, right? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: No. 4. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: down. PROFESSOR MARTIN: So quality of life is Have we ranked them or -- No. I'm Just trying to get them Do they need to be ranked? They could be listed in alphabetical order. address them all eventually anyway. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I agree. should rank them. Sounds goods to me. PROFESSOR MARTIN: What's missing? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Growth management, from this list. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What's missing, growth management? I thought we decided -- COMMISSIONERMATTHEWS: Well, from the original You're going to I don't know that we OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 104 starting point that we started with today. We no longer have growth management in our -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Let me suggest that growth management is similar to under essential services and our transportation, our roads. It's an item that we've already taken care of, although we can mention it and note that this Is taken care of. Obviously our Growth Management Plan is something that is under constant attention. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's what we just discussed, t~hat we're required to update -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's what I mean. We don't need to spend a lot of time on that one any more than we do the roadway system because that's being taken care of on an ongoing basis anyway, but just put it down on the paper somewhere and notate that we're taking care of it. PROFESSOR MARTIN: We had agreed here under economic element of Growth Management Plan. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's Just a small portion of it. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Oh. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Let me suggest that one of OFFICIA~ COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 105 20,¸ 1 the things that's going to happen with this list of priorities is this Is going to get a tremendous amount of review by ths public because we are attempting to put together a blueprint for the future of Collier County. And one of the really major issues that we hear everywhere we go is, "What are you doing to manage growth?~ If we conspicuously have the term "growth management" missing from our list of objectives and major categories, we may create the impression that we're not concerned about growth management as a major issue whereas on the other hand we are concerned about economic growth but we're not looking at the other side of the coin. So I think we need to -- PROFESSORMARTIN: You're talking about people then, population. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We need to put it in the list someplace. Whether it needs to be a separate category is another story. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Well, it was brought up in the Nesbit Study (phonetic), Collier 2000. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I agree with you, Commissioner Saunders. I wonder if you had the separate category in OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 106 ter~s of growth management, what do we put under growth management though? I mean, in terms of do we put build-out study underneath it? Do we put growth management build-out study, because that's something that staff is working on and the Greater Naples Civic Association has a particular emphasis on MPO and where MPO as it relates to the transportation network? So could we have a separate category, Just -- for the same reasons that you're suggesting. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS= would be appropriate. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I would think a subcategory And build-out study, Which is something that staff is currently undertaking. And what is that called, and review? MR. ARNOLD: E.A.R. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: the five-year evaluation Evaluation and Appraisal Reportl So why don't we put evaluation and review of five-year plan? Is that what it is, evaluation and review of five-year plan7 MR. ARNOLD= That's part of the Growth Management Plan and it has a five-year basis. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES~ FL 33962 :r, 107 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And then build-out study. Does MPO fit under there for any reason? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: transportation. MR. CONRECODE: MPO deals more with It's Just a transportation element. COMHISSIONERVOLPE= Okay. MR. SMYKOWSKI: What about public transportation? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: services. MR. SMYKOWSKI: MRS. SKINNER: That could go under social Government subsidy? I don't think so. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Come on, Martha, we can house them and we can feed them and we can transport them. MR. CONRECODE: disadvantaged. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Transportation for the Would we want to put under growth management population control or -- MRS. SKINNER: That comes under public health. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Wait a second. PROFESSOR MARTIN: That comes under planned parenthood. MRS. SKINNER: That's public health. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 108 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: On growth management I have another issue. I just want to raise it then as we're thinking about growth management. One of the issues -- one of the issues that we have not talked about specifically is our taxes, and specifically tax.equity. And I don't know if that's -- I mean, that's something we're going to hear more and more about. We've heard it in the context of EMS as it relates to the City of Naples, the tax equity issue. It comes up in a number of different contexts. And I submit that we will hear more during the next five-year period about the issue of tax equity. know where it fits in terms of a plan. And I just don't I mean, in terms of -- is that an issue that we need to be -- COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's intergovernmental cooperation, perhaps. MR. SMYKOWSKI: A subcategory there. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We're talking about the city and tax equity, other levels of government. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I agree to a point. that between the different governmental entities, but I think as well the tax equity issue comes up in a I do see OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS., COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 109 different context, and that has to do within various planning communities. And the analysis that's been done by the Greater Naples Civic Association; i.e., you know, Marco Islanders and how much they're paying in their ad valorem taxes and what's the benefit that they receive and how much are the rural areas of our community, how much are they paying in terms of that. You know, who is supporting this process. And I think the tax equity issue is going to be coming -- CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I think we're getting rather specific, but ! think Leslie's got a good point there. I think that would fall under efficiency or effective governance somewhere. I think you're getting into a very specific topic. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: You could put an (e) under there of tax equity. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think for the same reasons that we would be talking about, you know -- don't want to put it there? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I don't. And the reason why is that tax equity is always going to fall in the eye of he whose ox is being gored and you're never going to find OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 11o a ~ax systea that's equitable to all people. COMMISSIONER SAU~DZRS: But I don't think that's what he's saying. He's looking at the different services and saying what's the best way to pay for these services? What's the best mix of fees and taxes and how do you do it in the most equitable manner? CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: ! think that falls under efficiency. That is a specific issue, though. I mean, I think that falls under efficiency and you can look at that one particular item, but everything else we've done on these are broad categories and tax equity is getting more specific. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's fine. ! Just make the comment that in ter~s of whose ox is being gored, it comes up like in the context of I think we talked about as it relates to EHS. We're going to talk about it perhaps if not this year next year or the year after as it relates to beach parking fees, in terms of -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- whether you use ad valorem taxes and so on. It comes up in parks and recreation. So if it comes under government efficiency, maybe OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 111 there's someplace -- we talked about finance, how you finance government. That's all I have to say. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. MRS. EDWARDS: Do you want it included? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: No. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: No. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: We don't want to worry about how we're going to finance it, we're Just going to -- PROFESSOR MARTIN: Commissioner Norris, is that like sifting and winnowing? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: No, that's goring the ox. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: We can finance it later, and that way we can decide what we can afford. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: PROFESSOR MARTIN: COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. It's off? It's off. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: PROFESSOR MARTIN: COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: It never got on. Back to growth management. Well, the build-out study's going to address densities need to do about densities. and whether -- and what we Or that study is being prepared under current densities and we'll have some OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 112 idea, I presume, from the build-out study whether we need to alter the densities in different planning areas. I guess that's one of the things that we need to look at. I mean, Co~issioner Saunders is talking about population control and I'm sure that what he means is density of population and -- COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: 1.3 children per family. PROFESSOR MARTIN: How many housing units are under construction or have been approved as of now? Does anybody have that figure? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: 130,000, plus or minus. PROFESSOR MARTIN: A hundred and thirty thousand? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: We have what, some 42,000 we have absolutely no control over? PROFESSOR MARTIN: accurate figure? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: PROFESSOR MARTIN: Really? Is that really an Yeah. If you take 130,000 times the average of people per household in this county, which is three, you're looking at 390,000 more people here eventually as of today, right? And you add that to the population figure we quoted of 160 and now you're up to OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 500,000. And that's what people are worried about, how many more are you going to let in? How much more busier are our streets going to be? Are we going to have enough water? Are we going to have a solid waste disposal system that's adequate? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's why we've got the category of growth management. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Yeah. right -- they belong in here somehow, and it's a matter of you determining the terminology. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I guess that's what our build-out study is going to help us look at is densities, to look at the infrastructures~ is it adequate? PROFESSOR MARTIN: Do you want to use density as a category here to be considered? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: She's saying that's already handled in the build-out study. PROFESSOR MARTIN: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, that's all of those Okay. The build-out study becomes the planning too1 to determine -- that says what the infrastructure is that's going to be required to support OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 114 the population based upon current densities. And then the idea is that you back into or up from or away from whatever that shows. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah. You have to take that study and decide is that really based on what we have in play right now, this is where we're going? And we need to decide along with, you know, the public needs to tell us is that really where we want to gO · COMMISSIONER VOLPE: If you take the absorption rates of about 3800 units a year and divide that into 130,000. PROFESSOR MARTIN: That's what people are worried about. That's what they're talking about on the streets. That's what they're talking about on the streets. That's what you're going to be criticized for. People look at that corner of Airport and Pine Ridge Road now and they wonder, 'My God, where are all ~he cars going to go when it's all built up?' COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Especially with street vendors standing out ~here on Saturday and Sunday mornings talking newspapers. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 3 115 PROFESSOR MARTIN: That's right. And flowers. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: No, not flowers. PROFESSOR MARTIN: men come alonq. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Wait 'til the hot dog umbrella They can't do that because they don't have free speech. PROFESSOR MARTIN: girls from Palm Beach. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: population problem now. PROFESSOR HARTIN: You'll have to bring over those You think we've got a What else? Do you want to include any other categories under this major growth management subject, or do you want to consider it after We're going to need to put we give you copies of -- COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: something on there, but we're Just having trouble coming up with it now. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Well, you'll have a month to think about it. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Are there any optional elements of the Growth Management Plan that we've talked -- economic development is an optional element. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 116 Schools is an optional element. How about -- and we picked up under growth management the intergovernmental coordination element is -- we've touched in another area. So I mean, we've got growth management, I think, in other areas included. So we may have right now all of the other subjects that we need under that. PROFESSOR MARTIN: So when you write your plan, you may make reference to that in this plan, see this other section for more -- yeah. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What's the next step in the process? PROFESSOR MARTIN: As far as -- you tell me. I can make a suggestion, but -- we're going to send this to you for sifting and winnowing and then we'll talk about it at our next meeting and start the extension. I don't know that you want to use this form, but the form I've used here is what is already in the books for next year and what additions want to be in next year for No. 1, which is your operations year October I this year. And then start filling that out and then filling the spaces in succeeding years as we go forward. As OFFICIAL COURT' REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 1'17 these housing units are built and population grows, you're going to need -- what are we going to be doing in two and three or four and five years to take care of this? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How would we fill that out? What are we supposed to be -- when you say in year one or year two, three, four, just help us in terms of different subjects and then how we would complete that. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Can I make a little different suggestion before you answer that? Mike, an alternative, if you would, would be to break down three categories, break each of these into three areas: One, how are we going to accomplish what it is we're trying to do or what is it we're trying to accomplish; two, how do you implement that; and three, have an evaluation process, something to review once you're done. And whether that would be annually or five years like the other thing or -- but for each one of these, break those into those three categories~ plan it, implement it and review it. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, under the strategic plan OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 118 I think our incentive is goals, objectives and measurements. I mean, where do we fit those goals, objectives and measurables into what we've got in these categories? How do we get to the goal issue? PROFESSOR MARTIN: Well, as I would see it standing here without any more research in your operations year, what is already planned for for October i and forward 12 months from all of your department administrators; what's already planned for; can we put it down in writing and know that this is taking place~ and what of those have to be extended, such as roads, to second and third years and won't be completed for 24 or 36 months? That's your advanced planning. So it's on paper and you know and it's taken care of and you can tell "John Q. Public" this is what we're doing with our roads. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Are you suggesting then that after we've got these eight categories that we would in the first instance put it back with the staff and they could identify current programs and then there may be at the staff level they have within each division done some "strategic planning" that then would help us to vision as to where they think they're going? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 119 PROFESSOR MARTIN= Yes. Remember the things that we said up there. Strategic planning is where are we now, where are we going to go and how are we going to get there. And it all starts with a plan. So we want to know what plans are already formulated and what we can write down and say that these are going on and what new plans do you as Commissioners want to add to those already in existence, whether they be for October 1st or for the second or the third or the fourth year. COMMISSIONER VOLPE= So what's our assignment for the next meeting? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS= That's for staff. PROFESSOR MARTIN= I would think your assignment for the next meeting is to take a look at this when we hand it back to you next week and firm up any changes or additions that you want to make to this. And then the procedure would be to assign to the various department heads those parts that they are responsible for that are already planned for with new recommendations for Juccseding years. And then let's get it written down. Let's get it OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 4 120 on paper, because we need to write this plan. We need to have it In writing so you can tell "John Q. Public" and everybody else in government here, "This is our plan." You need to tell the County Administrator, "This is our plan and it's your Job to administrate these plans," going back to the original ordinance and the original state law as to your responsibilities and the administrator's responsibilities in carrying out what you are planning for them to do. CO~O~ISSIONER NORRIS: I believe ! heard you say, Professor Martin, that we should take these categories and let the staff develop plans for it. PROFESSOR NARTIN: No, develop what's already in plan. CONMISSIONER NORRIS: plan? Develop what's already in PROFESSOR MARTIN: To let you know what's already in plan that you ~ay not be aware of. cOMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. PROFESSOR HART/N: In other words, what plans are they going forward with for October 1st and what do you want to add to them from your standpoint. Does that make OFFICIAL O)URT lt~PO~, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 121 sense? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That makes sense. What I'd like to make sure we do is start doing something different. It seems to me that this is the third meeting we've had and we've done the same thing each time. We're not really making any progress unless we decide on these categories and then start moving ahead and doing some planning. We haven't set one single goal, and we haven't made one single plan. We've got -- PROFESSORMARTIN: I have to assume that these are your categories now. agreed upon them. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Is that right? I think you've We need our goals now. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's what I'm trying to get at. We've done this for the third time now and to come back here and do it again next week -- PROFESSORMARTIN: No, we don't want to do this again. No, I would consider this done, Commissioner Norris. I consider this done. This is on paper. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, Professor Martin, it's us that has to consider it done, -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 122 4 PROFESSOR MARTIN: That's right, you have to -- COMMISSIONERNORRIS: -- okay, not you. PROFESSOR MARTIN: -- approve it. I'm considering it done because I think you've voted on each of these eight categories. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, we did that in the meeting before and the meeting before that, too, but here we are doing it again. PROFESSOR MARTIN= They're different. COMMISSIONER NORRIS= What I'm saying is I'd like to make sure, and I'm really directing this to the other Commissioners, that hopefully now we've got our eight categories and let's do some planning next time and get on the move here. map. we're focused on now. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You're talking about a road I mean, we've got the categories and that's where Maybe I'm under a false impression, but I thought we were to do some strategic planning and set some goals and that sort of thing. So far we haven't done any of that. But maybe I'm under a false impression, or maybe I'm expecting too much. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 '4* 123 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, I think maybe -- we may all be saying the same thing. I think Co~issioner Constantine had talking about planning and implementation. And the third category was? CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: mechanism. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Some sort of review And I think what you're saying, John, is the end result here is supposed to be what are the goals that we envision for the next five years, what are the objectives, and what's the criteria that we're using to get there. I guess at what point do we begin to start laying all of that out? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's what I'm saying. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I don't know how to articulate it any differently. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Right now after this meeting. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: So your suggestion, Professor Martin, is that our staff looks at what we have determined today as priorities, assuming we agree they all are priorities, and show us next time what they're OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 124 already doing in those areas and then from that we try to determine where do we want to go from here. Is that -- PROFESSORMARTIN: That's right. And start writing -- now we're going to start writing plans for these eight basic areas. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's what I want to do. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I have a comment. I think that, as with any plan, we now have eight categories that we agree these are the major areas that we want to concentrate on, but we've identified a couple of phrases and we haven't said anything about what we want to do about those phrases. For instance, Growth Management Plan is Item No. 8. What about it? What do we want to accomplish and in what time frame? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: getting at. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's exactly what I'm We haven't said anything now except that yes, growth management is an important item. Fine. We all know that, but what do we want to do about it and in what time frame? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But I thought in terms of the process -- I'm struggling as we all are, but I mean, I OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 125 ~hink if we go back and we find out what ts actually being done as it relates to evaluation and review of our five-year plan we can look at -- maybe we're familiar, but maybe we need to be refreshed in terms of what's actually being done. Where are we in the build-out study? What's being done? And then we can look at I guess is that the goal le to within the next two years to complete the build-out study and to bring the build-out study to the community and have public hearings and processes to get the input on the build-out study. Maybe that's what we're talking about and maybe that's where he's taking us in the next part of this process. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Well, I'm agreeing with Commissioner Norris in that I think it's time to stop saying maybe we need, maybe we need. It's time to do it. It's time to say that with our safety issues that we want to do something about crime. Fine. What do we want to do about it? Do we want to cut crime by 10% in the next two years, by 15% in the next three years? You know, what are the goals and what's the time frame that we want to accomplish that? And then we look OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 126 at what is being planned right now and then we decide is that going to meet that goal or do we have to do something else in order to meet that goal? We haven't said what we want to do about these things. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think when staff comes back to us with all these written down, which I presume we'll get early next week if not later this week, I think each Commissioner at that point needs to take that list and I think we need to expand upon that on our own and think about each category and what subcategories we want. And I think we should -- I think our assignment should be to type up something that expands on this list and when we get back together again at least we'll know where each one of us wants to go and then try to justify those different subcategories and try to complete this list, the eight major categories, the little subcategories we have under that and any subcategories under those. I think each one of us should come to the next meeting with that already typed out so we're not beginning to think at that point that we've completed that thinking process. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 127 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Commissioner Matthews, is -- COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: What you're saying, We need action words. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Yeah. You're saying the goals, objectives and measurables and you're saying that we need to establish now a goal within growth management or within the category of water resources or -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: protection. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: categories. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Exactly. -- natural resource For each of the eight Maybe that's what we should do the next time is within those eight categories we ought to, as Commissioner Saunders said, come up with your individual what you would like as an individual goal and then share that with each other within each one of those categories and then see whether -- COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Some of the early ones when we first started this process that I had written down were things like increase tourism 50% over the next five years. That's a time frame and it's measurable. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 128 Now we need to say what is the measuring stick we're going to use and in what time frame are we going to apply it and then take the steps to see if what we're currently doing is going to get us there. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But if we come back -- that happened to have been your individual goal early on in the process. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yeah. We all may not agree. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And now we've got consensus, presumably, and this process has brought us around. And looks like we've -- maybe we have, and maybe it's Just getting us in the mindset, but now we've got eight categories. Within each one of those eight categories we have to come up with a goal and bring it back to the table; that happens to be your goal and my goal is this and we put it together and come up with a consensus as to what the goal is as the Board. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Or, we could each do that individually in terms of what we think this thing should look like and we could exchange that in a few days before the meeting so that at least when we sit down at the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 129 table we kind of have an idea where we want to go ourselves and where the other Commissioners want to go so we're not just kind of beginning the thought process but we're doing something on our own. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: If you're going to do that, let me suggest that you might want to pick two, at the outside three, of the major categories because that's bound to fill up a morning. There's no way you're going to in the morning set goals for all eight categories. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So why don't we decide on the eight categories and let's pick three of them now and say these are the three that we'll work on for the next meeting? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's fine. Can we do that? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: We need to -- I think one of the questions Dr. Martin said early on is that this strategic plan is a moving -- it's a living ~ocument and we've got all these static ideas and now we need to put them in motion, put some action to them. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: My suggestion would be to agree on two or three of those categories that we think OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 130 needs the attention earliest obviously so we can get them cranked out first. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Some of them -- Well, that's going to require us to determine which are the greatest priorities there and that's going to take us an hour. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Why don't you Just go down the list? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Why don't we do the first three? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Let's do the first half. Let's do four. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. Fine, the first four. You'll give us everything we've done today? PROFESSOR MARTIN: We'll get all of this in writing in the next three or four days. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. So when we come back the next time we will be dealing with the first four categories, have identified specific goals that each of us has in mind. MRS. EDWARDS: Do you want to see where staff is now, also? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 131 COMMISSIONER VOLPE= Yes. That's part of the process, right? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Those four categories, can we send the same things out to staff and get back from staff -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What you're doing. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: What they're doing right now so that we can get into an action program. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Fine. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Everything wtll be sent to everybody and everybody can then start their part of this program and -- MRS. EDWARDS: Let me ask staff then today to submit to me by Friday where you are today with these categories. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Tuesday. When's our next meeting? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS= Right now the next one's not scheduled until August. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: August? MRS. EDWARDS: It's May. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Is it May? I'm sorry. Is that fair, though? Today's OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 .6¸ '132 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Friday is -- MRS. EDWARDS= Okay. Jennifer, I'm not sure that Two weeks? COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: At least. MRS. EDWARDS: Two weeks, staff? MR. IJAMS: What did you suggest, Jennifer? MRS. EDWARDS: We want to gather information from the staff as to where we are now with these first four categories. What is a reasonable time frame for you to be able to get that information to us? MR. ARNOLD: Could I make a suggestion? PROFESSOR MARTIN: Then whatever you decide at the next meeting becomes the first written part of the overall plan. We're going to put this into writing and say this is the goals and objectives and the plans for those areas. MRS. EDWARDS: Wayne has a suggestion. MR. ARNOLD: Just a question that we be provided a consistent list as I'm not sure that my notes reflect exactly what you have. MRS. EDWARDS: Oh, sure. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Everybody will get a complete OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 ~33 copy of all of these things that we're agreed upon today. MRS. SKINNER: Jennifer, for the sake of consistency to the departments, will you write just some guidelines for the procedure or put a list together? MRS. EDWARDS: Right. I will reduce what we've done today to writing and I will develop a format that I'd like for you to report back to us in. And my question now is: Is two weeks reasonable for staff to be able to report back if I get this to you by the end of the week? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That should be sufficient because there's nothing going to the County Attorney here, so two weeks should be fine. MRS. EDWARDS: Are we going to meet again the fifth Tuesday in May, or do you want to meet before then? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Yes. Fifth Tuesday in May. I think this is something that will require some time and thoughts. NS. GULACSIK: Mr. Chairman, before you leave I would like to say one comment. You asked for public to be here, but yet as far as I'm concerned this set up is OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 134 very unfriendly as far as the public being able -- most of us are sitting out here in the hallway or sitting in somebody eXse's way. COMMISSXONERVOLPE: You mean larger facilities? MS. GULACSIK: You should have it arranged different or have a larger area to hold it in. PROFESSOR HARTIN: The library conference room is four times this big at the central library. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That'd be good. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: How about using my facility, the Norris Room down at the Depot? I'll donate that. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How about using the Community Center at East Naples Community Park? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: make arrangements? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: good. Sure. Jennifer, do you want to The main library sounds COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I was Just thinking of convenience. I'm not sure what would be convenient for s~aff. And, you know, I Just -- excuse me. Did I say something wrong again? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 135 COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I don't know that we need to determine this right now. We'll get a larger place for the public hearing between now and May. COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I think that beginning the next -- beginning with the next meeting we're actually going to start applying action to these phrases and I think that the public input and the public interest is probably going to be a lot greater as we start to move along the line on this. And we probably -- I think we're going to need larger facilities. PROFESSOR MARTIN: Well, the library has got a nice room. a~lot It's air conditioned. of tables and chairs. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: It's well 1it. They've got I don't think we need to determine exactly right this instant where it's going to be, but why don't we Just say yes, we will be in a larger facility and let Bill or Neil or Jennifer or whoever determine exactly where that'll be and at staff's convenience. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Good point. Anything else? I guess we're done. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE= We're out of here. Thank you very much. (Proceedings concluded at 11=45 a.m.) 136 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 137 STATE OF FLORIDA ) COUNTY OF COLLIER ) I, Christina J. Reynoldson, RPR and Deputy Official Court Reporter, do hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the date and place as stated in the caption hereto on Page i hereof; that the foregoing computer-assisted transcription, consisting of pages numbered 3 through 136, inclusive, is a true record of my Stenograph notes taken at said proceedings. Dated this 1st day of April, 1994. STATE OF FLORIDA COUNTY OF COLLIER The foFegoing certificate was acknowledged before me this ___~___day of April, 1994, by Christina J. Reynoldson, who is personally known to me. State of Florida at Large OFfiCIAl. NO?~.RY SEAL ~~ 00348394 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962