BCC Minutes 04/21/1993 W (Environmental)COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
ENVIRONMENTAL WORKSHOP
AGENDA MEETING
DATE: April 21, 1993
TIME: 6:00 p.m.
LOCATION: The Conservancy Inc.,
REPORTED BY:
Jacquelyn D. McMiller, DOCR
official Court Reporter
Collier County Courthouse
Building L., 5th Floor
Naples, FL 33962
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
* * A-P-P-E-A-R-A-N-C-E-S * *
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:
Burr Saunders
John Norris
Tim Constantine
Bettye Matthews
Michael Volpe
-- Chairman
-- Commissioner
-- Commissioner
-- Commissioner
-- Commissioner
STAFF PRESENT:
Neil Dorrill
Ken Cuyler
-- County Manager
-- County Attorney
ENVIRONMENTAL SYSTEMS AT RISK SPEAKERS
Fran Stallings
Ed Carlson
Mike Shirley
-- Overview
-- Corkscrew Swamp
-- Rookery Bay
PROTECTION MECHANISMS SPEAKERS:
William Lorenz
Bernie Yokel
-- Growth Management Plan
-- Land Acquisition/Conservation Easements
REGISTERED SPEAKERS
Wally Hibbard
Kenneth J. Sleeth
Jim McTague
Arthur Lee
Chris Pritchard
Gary L. Beardsley
Nancy A. Payton
John H. Fitch
Franklin Adams
Sally Lam
Chris Stratton
Eileen Arsenault
Ellen Linblad
Brad Cornell
Wayne Jenkins
Dave Maer
George McBath
Lawrence Pistori
A1 Perkins
Jon C. Staiger
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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
PROCEEDINGS
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ladies and gentlemen. We're
going to go begin the meeting in just a couple moments.
If you have any desire to speak when we get into public
comment on any particular issues we're going to ask you
to fill out these forms and in one or two moments we're
going to get started.
Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to welcome you
to what is hopefully the first in a long series of public
workshops that the Collier County Commission will have on
the specific issue of the environment.
Before we begin the meeting, I would like to ask
Mr. Dorrill if he would lead us in the pledge to the
flag.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Neil Dorrill
and proceedings continued as follows:)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'd like to thank the
conservancy for permitting us to use their auditorium for
today's meeting. The selection of the conservancy was
simply symbolic of the fact that we're dedicating this
meeting purely to the environment. We felt that getting
into an area of these types of surroundings would be
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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conducive for that type of a meeting.
Doctor Fitch, I'd like to ask you to come forward
for just a moment. We want to thank you for your efforts
in helping us set this meeting up. If you would like to
say a word or two before we get starting.
DR. FITCH: Thank you very much Commissioner Mr.
Saunders. It is a real pleasure to have all of you here.
Again, the conservancy is simply acting as a host here.
I think this is a tremendous opportunity for us all to
come together and talk about some of the long range
environmental issues because so often in the commission
meetings there isn't an opportunity to really talk about
the long term view.
I wanted to mention, speaking of long term views,
we do have some sustenance here for those of you who
haven't had a chance to have dinner and these weight
probably about two pounds, courtesy of the Ritz and
should sustain you at least through this meeting.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. It's truly amazing
what you can find at the bottom of a barrel of oil.
Also, when we have these meetings in the County
commission chambers, I don't think we have cookies or
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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coffee.
Several people have asked me why should we have an
environmental workshop, why should we have a special
meeting dedicated to the environment. There are a couple
things that led us to that conclusion that we should do
that; several months ago, as by way of an example, we had
a group of homeowners from the Bell Mead area of Collier
County, who were objecting to me the Bell Mead property
being purchased by the State of Florida Conservation
Recreation Land List.
They were petitioning the county commission for us
to write a letter to the Governor and Cabinet urging that
the governor and cabinet not be put that property on the
list. As it turned out we had representatives of the
Audubon society at our meeting at the same time and they
were urging us to do just the opposite, to attempt to get
the Governor and Cabinet to put that property on the
list.
The county commission was really caught by
surprise, at least I was caught by surprise, in terms of
we had property owners who had a significant conflict
with an environmental organization and the property
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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owners were asking us to assist them in opposition to
that environmental organization.
It seemed to me, I'm sure it seemed to the rest of
the commission, that it certainly would have been nice if
we could have been advised and informed earlier on so
that perhaps we could have eliminated a conflict that we
had to resolve at the county commission level.
So, the purpose of this meeting, very briefly, is
simply for the county commission to simply get an
understanding of what the state and federal agencies are
doing in Collier County, what the various environmental
organizations and other agencies are doing in Collier
County, what those entities would like to see Collier
County doing, but also to give us an opportunity to let
you know what we're doing so we can all be, perhaps,
singing from the same sheet of music when it comes to
protecting the environment in Collier County.
We've all recognized that the environment, people
that are interested in the environment, are not really
special interest groups in a general sense of what that
term usually means. Special interest, in terms of
developers, we know what that means. When we talk about
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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special interest in terms of the environment, that
description kind of breaks down because we're all part of
the environment and what we do and all the agencies do,
that affects all of us in general. So, if it's a special
interest, it's a special interest that affects each and
every one of us so it's a special, special interest in
that regard.
So, that's the purpose of this workshop, to get us
in tune with what you're up to and also to let you know
what we're up to.
Our first item on the agenda, and we will give the
public plenty of opportunity to discuss issues and the
county commission will also have plenty of opportunity to
discuss those issues as we go along, the first on our
formal agenda, under Environmental Systems at Risk, Mr.
Fran Stallings will provide and overview. Mr. Stallings.
MR.. STALLINGS: This evening there are seven points
that I would like to briefly explore that we believe are
very pertinent to the issues at hand.
THE AUDIENCE: We can't hear you.
MR. STALLINGS: I'll start over. This evening
there are seven points that I would like to briefly
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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explore that we believe are very pertinent to the issues
at hand.
Number one, Southwest Florida, in general, and
Collier County, in particular, is an area where the
emphasis on environmental issues is as great or greater
in all of any other location throughout the United States
that I'm aware of.
There's a perception on the part of some
individuals that this attention to matter's ecological,
goes beyond what is necessary and prudent for a wise
present and sustainable future use of our natural
resource space. As we well know, there are many
individuals who feel that we do not go far enough in
wisely managing our resources.
The basic question is, does Collier County consist
of an area that is unique and requires unusual and far
reaching measure for its proper management. From our
perspective, the answer is yes.
We have, in essence, chosen to live in a place that
'was not meant for human habitation, at least, not without
major modification provided that a significant number of
people are to be supported here. The large area of
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wetlands and the hoards of mosquitoes alone pose
formidable obstacles to human habitation.
The major modification required to an ecological
system present us with a much more difficult task of
natural resource management than would be the case in
Tallahassee, Saint Louis, Missouri, Denver, Colorado and
most other places that come to mind.
A second item that should be under scored is that
our natural environment here in Collier County where we
have a blending of tropical and subtropical flora and
faun truly is unique. Consequently, there will always be
a large amounts of interest in our area from the outside
and outside sources as to how we should manage our
ecological system. I might also add this one other point
too, that this uniqueness has a very considerable
economic potential that to date has been little developed
or exploited when compared to its full measure.
Number two, almost half of Collier County is in
public ownership and significantly large additional areas
have been targeted for public acquisition. How much is
enough, is a question that we're frequently asked.
Unfortunately, there is no magic number. The fact is
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that in order to supply potable water, minimize salt
water intrusion, maintain high water quality, maintain
productivity in bay and gulf water, have a high air
quality, avoid disastrous floods and sustain the
ecological uniqueness of this area relatively large
tracks of land must be left largely undeveloped.
Outright purchase is only one way of meeting this need.
Other tools are the transfer or sale of density
rights, easements of one sort or another, mitigation
banking which could take a variety of forms and incentive
programs for land not to be developed.
Getting back to the original question of how much
is enough, the actual amount of land that is required to
be left in a relative natural state would depend upon how
this land is managed and the amount of costs that the
public is willing to accept in terms of the dollars paid
for potable water, flood control, flood control
structures and the like, how acceptable specific levels
of water quality are and the value placed upon the
ecological uniqueness in this area.
Another factor to be considered is the maximization
of an economic return from lands left in the natural
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
11
state. As noted earlier in Staff's opinion, that there
is a significant economic return presently from
undeveloped natural areas but that few efforts have been
made to enhance and maximize this potential.
Number three, the value of maintaining a basic
ecological system is that you minimize the cost potable
water as well as irrigation and water through
agriculture, expenses are less for flood control, you
minimize the cost of dealing with salt water intrusion,
you maintain a high recreational value for inland and
coastal waters, we have better air quality and continue
to have an area that is esthetically pleasing which helps
to maintain high property values and supports the tourist
industry.
In fact, Staff is not aware of any acceptable way
that we can have a community 20 years from now that is
both attractive to and financially rewarding to the
developing community'without the maintenance of our basic
ecological systems which in turn that we must keep
relatively large areas of Collier County in a natural
state.
Number four, at the present time, our zoning system
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is pitched towards a dispersed type of settlement that
spreads people and their activities widely across the
countryside is what I would call a land intensive
settlement pattern.
In other words, we tend to use a lot of land on a
per person basis for residential and urban uses. This
trend is counter to the need to maintain large relatively
intact areas of natural habitat.
Number five, the uses to which land may be put is
regulated to an extent through the permitting process.
Many questions have been raised as to how effective this
often cumbersome process is in protecting the large
ecosystems. The answer is that the permitting system
falls short with achieving many of the goals that we use
as justification for its establishment.
Basically, a permit is a legal license to destroy
natural habitat. The permit is supposed to indicate how
much and what kind of habitat will be destroyed and how
the rest of the habitat on site gets to be used. The
fact is inescapable that development destroys habitat.
Our task is to minimize habitat loss and proceed
with development in such a manner that the basic natural
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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resource base is maintained in a condition where it will
continue support human leaders in a sustainable basis at
a high economic level.
The number of people that'can ultimately be
supported by a given habitat is approximately the applied
level of technology and the level of living. In a
general sense the choice is to support more people at a
lower level of living or fewer people at a high level of
living assuming the same level apply technology. We
almost had this choice before us in planning and making
decisions for the future of Collier County.
Number six, the Natural Resources Department staff
is required to look towards the future and we do not see
the pressures for development declining any time soon.
If this assumption is correct the problem then becomes
one of guiding growth so that we may continue to have a
community that is ecologically sound, economically viable
and esthetically pleasing.
We do not see any way that these three goals can be
met without altering our settlement pattern to one of
concentrated islands of population with relatively large
areas of natural habitat in between. If we continue our
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present course it is our feeling that rising costs of
dealing with environmental problems will become a
limiting factor to economic growth.
obviously, it'll also be costly to change our
direction. However, we feel that the quality of life
benefits will be significantly greater or a equal number
of people if we move towards a pattern of concentrated
rather than disperse settlement.
Item number seven, the decision is made to
reconfigure our settlement patterns there are a number of
mechanisms that can be employed. One that is presently
under consideration and holds a great deal of promise is
the transfer of density rights. This tool has an
advantage of compensating the property owner who falls
within its area of limited development. Other mechanisms
are public acquisition of land, mitigation banks, tax
incentives, easements and enhancement of recreational
opportunities and natural areas.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have asked our Staff to
evaluate the establishment of a transfer of development
rights program for Collier County. I understand that we
have one in existence now. It's one, I don't believe,
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has ever been used and certainly not workable. Do you
know what the status of that evaluation is at this point?
MR. STALLINGS: We're working on it. We're working
on it. We're working with long range planning to develop
or propose a new ordinance or new program that we hope
will be a lot more successful than the old one.
We have been told that Orange County has a program
that is working very well with development rights so what
I think we're going to do is take a close look at what
they're doing.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any other questions?
Commissioner Volpe.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Doctor Stallings, is the issue
related to density, is that what you've tried to identify
in terms dispersing the population of growth in terms of
current patterns?
MR. STALLINGS: Yes. I think at the present time
that our pattern settlement is one that encourages a
relatively few people to occupy quite a bit of land as
opposed to a situation where you have a much greater
density in urban areas as opposed to conservative lower
density.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The current density, base
density is four units an acre. In the agriculturally
zoned property it's one unit for every five acres. So,
I'm not sure I understand. I mean those are fairly low
densities. At different times, we've talked about the
possibility of further reducing our densities to maybe to
units an acre in urban areas to a half unit an acre in
urban areas.
MR. STALLINGS: Our recommendation or our idea is
that we should go in the direction of increasing the
density in urban areas, if not actually decreasing the
density allowed through zoning in rural areas, to set up
some kind of program where some of that rural density can
be transferred into urban areas.
That takes some of the pressure off of the large
ecological systems that we need to get while at the same
time giving us the ability to continue with the growth
that we know is going to occur.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Any other questions
for Doctor Stallings?
Our next presentation, our Staff, I guess prepared
an agenda that is Environmental Systems at Risk and put
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the first initials of the names of people and didn't put
their entire names.
Carlson.
MR. CARLSON:
So, I'll call them out that way, E.
That's Ed.
I would like to use this
pointer in my presentation. I have no idea of how it
works. Could someone show me how it works? Anybody.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Perhaps you can start without
that. If you can get it fixed, fine.
MR. CARLSON: Commissioners, my mission here
tonight is to tell you about resource protection in
Collier County and surrounding areas. It has a very long
history. Resource protection has been an intense effort
here for a very long time.
My organization has been involved in this from the
very beginning for nearly a hundred years now. I'll
start with the first slide.
Work from organizations called the National Audubon
Society. It's a national organization, headquartered in
New York and has six hundred thousand members across the
country. It's the oldest environmental organization in
the United States.
Now, Corkscrew Swamp, the area we're going to talk
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about tonight is an Audubon sanctuary. It's owned and
maintained by the national Audubon. It has no
affiliations with the federal government, state
government, does not depend on any tax revenues of any
kind from anywhere. It's supported solely on donations
and admissions to the sanctuary.
The Corkscrew water shed is a large area adjacent
to Immokalee to the east, goes up to route 82 and
actually goes out of Collier County to the north.
There's a vast area and a very high quality of wetlands
that begins in this blue area. Now, this is the top,
very top of the Big Cypress Water Shed right here, the
water flows Southwest and this area outlined in red is
Corkscrew Swamp Sanctuary. It's 17 square miles, 10,560
acres, most of it in Collier County and just a little
tiny bit of it up in Lee County.
The water collections wetland flows to the
Southwest, going historically down into the central part
of Collier County and the way down to the Fakahatchee
strand and 10,000 Islands and west into the Imperial
River, Cocohatchee River and some of it into the Estero
River. They're very important head waters, coastal
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rivers and the estuarine system.
This is a completely rainfall driven system. We
don't have any rivers coming in here. We don't have
springs coming in. It all depends upon local rainfall.
We can get rain in the wet season, we have the water. If
we don't get rain, the whole thing drys up. It's a very
sensitive system, a very flat area.
Our heavy seasonal rainfall produces large areas of
shallow standing water, perfect conditions for Wading
Birds, historically one of the few resources of this
region plus hundreds of thousands of Wading Birds, one of
the characteristic resources.
The other resource, Cypress Forest, some of the
most impressive forests in the world. These trees are
close relatives to the Red Woods out west. They grow
very large, very impression, very beautiful.
There was one place in Southwest Florida,
predeveloped Southwest Florida, when there was lost of
Cypress Forests, there was one place where the Wading
Birds preferred to nest and it's a mystery why they
preferred that area. That is that area outlined in red
on that water shed map, Corkscrew Swamp. There was lots
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of places for them to nest and for some reason they
prefer Corkscrew and it has historically been the largest
nesting area for North American Woodstorks, but all the
other species nest there. It's a very important
resource.
When the birds nest they grow these unique breeding
plumes and a weird thing happened during the turn of the
century, women decided to make a fashion statement by
wearing these things in their hats and plumes became very
valuable and one of the first major industries in Collier
County right here was plume markets. A lot of people
made their living in this county at the turn of the
century going into the wading bird colonies when they
were nesting and killing the birds taking their plumes.
This is what formed the Audubon Society.
It was people in the north getting together,
prevailing upon legislators to pass laws to protect birds
and then hiring local people to be Audubon wardens to
actually go in and physically protect the colony.
Another pastime is alligator hunting and there was
a problem with both of these, both of these industries so
to speak. They were totally unregulated and any time you
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have, throughout the history of the human race, if you
have human beings utilizing the resource without
regulation they're going to destroy it and that's what
was happening and that's why the Audubon Society formed
and Audubon wardens like this actually lived at colony
sites and protected those endangered colonies and we were
successful in that effort. Three men in South Florida
died in the line of duty protecting Wading Birds, a very
serious thing.
Now, several decades later after that issue was
resolved the economic value of the cypress lumber became
so great that it became economically feasible for men to
build elevated railroads into the Cypress Forest and
harvest the trees with steam powered equipment. This was
happening in the 1930's, 40's and 50,e, a tremendous
level of effort but very effective once the loggers got
in there, they took everything because it was such an
investment. Of course, we're clear cut.
This picture shows the logging trends, it was just
by coincidence, that the loggers started at the south end
of Big Cypress and worked their way north, taking
everything. This Cypress Forest up here is the Cypress
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Forest that the birds preferred to nest in. This is
Corkscrew Swamps. So, what do you think happened when
the loggers began to eat up Corkscrew Swamp. There was a
coalition of environmental organizations, the National
Audubon Conservancy and other private citizens got
together to raise the funds and purchased that area
outright from the logging companies and the Collier
family and others. It was established in 1954, still
owned and maintained by us.
We immediately set to work on the Boardwalk so that
the public could enter this place and see it. It was a
such large effort nationwide that we wanted people to be
able to come out here and see it. A lot of it was done
by hand but eventually the words "Most beautiful
Boardwalk" took shape.
People come there from all over the world and the
wildlife is acclimated to the walk. It gives some of the
best wildlife viewing opportunities in the world. People
come from all over to walk the Boardwalk in Corkscrew
Swamp. Native wildlife is right there, very close and
because the northern and eastern part of this county is
still relatively undeveloped, we still have a large
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animal population. We have black bears, they're seen
from the walk every year and we even have panthers that
utilize the sanctuary.
So, getting back to what makes the resource there
special is you have those Wading Bird colonies, you have
those old growth trees and those don't occur anywhere
else. There is an unlimited Cypress Forest like
Corkscrew is and it's still the largest nesting colony
for Woodstorks in North America.
When conditions are right, the storks come in and
we never know when they're going to show up. It depends
on the water levels, They raise their young right within
view of the walk. They're oblivious to people. You
can't walk into wild colonies like this but at Corkscrew,
the Boardwalk is part of the environment, a very unique
situation now.
If you don't think this is news worthy, this is the
Fort Myers News Press last year, what to do in the month
of March and we were the featured thing. We had a
spectacular nesting year. Last year we were featured in
the front page of the Miami Herald, all the major
newspapers in Florida and many outside the State.
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SO, it's seemed that everything is just great,
however, if you look at a graph of the Woodstork nesting,
you can see that, I can give you these numbers, when we
established the sanctuary between, four, five and six
thousand nesting pair would raise anywhere from 10 to 14,
maybe 16,000 young and even in the good old days they had
years when they didn't nest because we had unusually dry
years or unusually wet years and that that happened.
Overall, throughout the years there's been a trend
so that now, and this graph has not been updated to show
last year's data, now there are only ten percent of the
Woodstorks nesting at Corkscrew that nested there
historically when we established the sanctuary. No one
ever dreamed the Woodstorks would be endangered species
but they are.
On the bottom graph, it shows population growth of
Southwest Florida. These are two related, inversely.
So, what's happening, here's the Corkscrew water shed
again, here's Lake Trafford, there's Immokalee Airport
right there and here's that big water shed that I showed
you before on that other drawing, taking the water South
and Southwest, Cocohatchee River, Imperial and down now
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into the Golden Gate Canal System. This here, going down
into the Panther Refuge, Fakahatchee Strand and 10,000
Islands. There's all sort of red areas and white areas
that are not natural habitat.
What's happening is, even though the sanctuary
itself is in great shape and we're doing a good job
protecting it, throughout the region and areas adjacent
to the water shed, there's tremendous agricultural
conversion, just an explosion of agriculture out there.
Deep freezes in Central Florida drove the citrus
industry south with tremendous vegetable production.
Little isolated wetlands incorporated in the farm fields
that just don't work anymore, they're not available for
Woodstorks and lots of drainage to take the water out of
farming areas.
These are some sides of the establishment or
construction of Golden Gate Estates where road access and
drainage was provided some years back. We all know the
story of that. Basically, what happens is that the
woodstorks require a tremendous amount of territory.
They nest in the sanctuary but they fly out in a range
that's even bigger than this entire map. They'll fly out
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in the order of 20 or 30 miles one way and come back to a
colony on a daily basis and every time they leave, they
fly over a landscaped that's drastically changed and
what's happened is drainage and development have taken
away the feeding areas and they starving back to the
available range.
Now, here's a map of Corkscrew here and it shows
you some of the federal holdings here, the Big Cypress
National Preserve, the Fakahatchee Strands, the state DNR
lands, there's a panther refuge and this blue line here
represents all of the undeveloped Corkscrew swamp water
shed and that's incorporated in the CREW Project which is
a land acquisition project of the water management
district called the Save Our Rivers Program.
What that project intends to do is acquire all
remaining undisturbed water shed, maintain it, maintain
the sanctuary by doing that since we're a segment of the
water shed we depend upon a continued flow of fresh
water. The CREW trust is made up of people from
agriculture, people from development, private citizens,
it's an example of everyone getting together and trying
to co-exist. This area important is important water
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES,~ FL 33962
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collection area for agricultural discharges. Those
agricultural discharges flow into Corkscrew swamp, down
through the system. They're purified. They're allowed
infiltrate into the ground and recharge our aquifers,
tremendous agricultural development in this area and
residential development in this area.
Well fields are going in downstream and this
project just is a way of everyone getting together and
trying to co-exist in a very rapidly developing region
and I feel it should be priority for this county to get
involved in a project like that.
As far as preserving natural resource areas, how
much we need to preserve, I can tell you that based on
our measurement of woodstorks, it takes a lot of wetland
to support the wildlife that's characteristic of this
region. It takes thousands and thousands, tens of
thousands of acres to protect our characteristic
wildlife.
Now, who would go to Corkscrew Swamp, pay admission
to walk on that Boardwalk. You can see our attendance
here has grown from approximately 10,000 people per year,
and steadily up to the 60's and upper 60,000. This draft
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was put together last February.
was our attendance jumped up to 102,000.
like where the "C" is in sanctuary here.
People come from all over the world.
popular place. We have a very tight program, confine
What happened last year
It went up to
It's a very
people to the walk. We take out groups of school kids,
all kinds of people. A scary thought, and I have a
reference, I can show you if I back this up, I just read
an article, there are 60 million people in the United
States who are interested in watching birds and those
people spent 20 billion dollars in just the United
States, not international, birding, 20 billion dollars in
1991.
So, here's the situation, four and a half million
people live over here. I lived there for 20 years and in
between uu and them there's a very degraded Everglades
system and then there's us over here with what, 150 to
200,000 people over here on this side of the state.
It seems to me that we have a chance to maintain,
it's not too late, to maintain a resource based economy.
This is not a resource based economy. This is an urban
economy and it's not attractive to tourist. Tourists fly
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29
into this airport and they go to the resource based areas
that we have.
I can tell you with this tremendous tax space over
here, the traffic is horrible, the services are bad and
it's a dangerous place to live. I lived there for 20
years. It's much better over here. I think it's better
because we have a lower population and we still have a
major resource base and it should be a priority of this
county to maintain the resource base in Southwest
Florida. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think that perhaps one of the
most difficult questions that we're dealing with as a
commission at this point is the balancing act that we
have to perform in terms of acquiring environmentally
sensitive land or attempting regulate the utilization of
that land so that the land stays on our tax roles and
doesn't result in a loss of tax revenues. It's difficult
balancing it.
I think your presentation really puts in
perspective why people are urging the acquisition of
land. Doctor Stallings indicated that over half of
Collier County is opposed to ownership right now and the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL~ 33962
3O
question he posed was, "How much is enough?", and we are
grappling with that issue right now.
Are there any questions of Mr. Carlson? If not,
then we'll move along.
MR. CARLSON: Can I make one more statement?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sure.
MR. CARLSON: About economics in this county. From
my experience, living here a long time and working in
tourism for a long time, we, at Corkscrew, really don't
advertise that place at all. We just put a few brochures
out in a few motels and I pass up lots of advertising
opportunities. I just don't believe in.
I think this county's better off playing the
ecotourism card. Tourism right now is the biggest
industry in the world and ecotourism is a very fast
growing element of tourism.
If the Fort Myers Airport is expanded into an
international airport we have the potential of this just
ecotourism blowing up in our face without us really
trying. If we can maintain the resource base, we can
have a fantastic ecotourism industry here that would be
the mainstay of our county and I think, as citizen and
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
31
taxpayer, that's the way I'd like to see our county go.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: His last comment, prompted a
thought. You've talked about resource protection, in
your opinion is there a way of increasing the resource?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Carlson.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You're talking about
protecting an existing resource.
MR. CARLSON: We've lost an unbelievable amount of
resource already. If you look at all of South Florida,
50 percent of the Everglades is gone. In our county,
just look at what's been lost in Golden Gate Estates area
and just look at our urban zone, that's going to fill up.
We've lost a lot of resource. I'm hoping that we can
maintain the special wildlife resources that we have with
a 90 percent decrease. Wouldn't you be nervous? I'm
very nervous.
I don't know how this is all going to work out over
time. I just hope we can, all we're asking is to
maintain a remnant, a small pitiful remnant of what it
was. I don't think we can, I don't think we'll ever have
any more resource space than we have now. I think it's
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
32
going to get worse. I think the only way to protect land
is to buy it and manage it. I think we ought to do as
much of that as we possibly can. I hope that all of it
works out in the future to where we do have some remnant
of the whole spectrum of the great things we have here
but we've lost a lot. There's no doubt about it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, very much.
Representing Rookery Bay, M. Shirley.
MR. SHIRLEY: My name is Mike Shirley I'm a
research biologist at the Rookery Bay National Estuarine
Research Preserve. I'd like to thank the commissioners
for this opportunity to speak to you tonight. May I have
the first slide, please?
The Rookery Bay National Estuarine Research
Preserve is approximately about 9,000 acres in size.
It's one of only 19 national estuarine resource reserve
nationwide. It is owned partly by the State of Florida
and by the Audubon Society by the conservancy and by the
nature conservancy.
It is currently under management by the Florida
Department of Natural Resources. Rookery Bay Reserve is
a pristine habitat. It's a unique estuarine system. The
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Rookery Bay system has been managed by DNR under the
control of the National Estuarine Research Reserve System
and the purpose of the Rookery Bay National Estuarine
Reserve is to protect and preserve the natural resources
of the site for research and education.
It's truly a unique habitat. The area is mostly a
mangrove shoreline. There are many diverse species in
this habitat. We, because of our location, we tend to
get species from tropical areas as well as temperate
areas providing a very diverse and unique habitat. Many
of the species here are only found in mangrove systems.
It's truly a unique habitat.
As most of you know, Rookery Bay is also known for
it's bird rookeries which are known world wide as being
very special.
The focus of my talk tonight however isn't going to
be on the intrinsic wildlife value of Rookery Bay. What
I'd like to do is maybe talk a little bit about what type
of an asset having these National Estuarine Research
Reserve, these pristine estuarine waters, are to Collier
County, to the economy of Collier County.
Oftentimes it's taken for granted that we have
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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these beautiful waters right nearby. There's a lot of
businesses, and you can drive into town and see them,
that rarely and directly connected to a healthy estuarine
system. In preparing this preparation, I took a drive
into town and took some pictures of some those
businesses.
Recreational fisherman, you can ask them what's
important throughout this area, the habitat is number
one. If it wasn't for this pristine habitat,
recreational fishermen, bait tackle stores that they
support would have problems keeping afloat.
Also, waterfront property owners have their
property values enhanced by being next door to this
estuarine system, this pristine estuarine waters. The
boat industry in Collier County is highly dependent on
having clean waters around. The more clean, estuarine
waters, they sell more boats and the people that service
the boats have jobs and it affects all the aspects of the
boating industry.
The seafood restaurants, the people, the commercial
fisherman that supply the seafood, all are tightly tied
into having a clean estuarine system. Even if the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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fishermen fish off-shore, the estuary, main species they
capture in some part of their life cycles were in the
estuarine area so they require a clean estuarine area
even for the off-shore fisheries.
Ecotourism, as Ed mentioned is a booming industry
in this area and absolutely depends upon a clean
environment. There is no disconnecting a clean
environment with a pristine value of estuarine sites such
as Rookery Bay Reserve from the tourism in this area.
There are no real boarders in nature, there's only
gradients and a clean estuary means a clean beach. Clean
beaches draw tourist and all those that are connected
with tourists, the motels, the restaurants, everything
else is tightly tied into the environment. Having the
Rookery Bay ecosystem is an asset to the economy of this
location.
The Rookery Bay System however does not exist in a
vacuum. This is picture looking down Henderson Creek
into the Rookery Bay Estuarine Research Reserve. The
part that belongs to the National Estuarine Research
Reserve System is to the far left of the screen. The
part up above is the drainage basin. Just like the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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systems off the coast depend on clean estuarine waters to
filter pollutants, the estuarine systems depend on
wetlands to filter the pollutants and other contaminants
that come off developments. Having those wetlands intact
is absolutely essential for the estuarine functions that
makes Rookery Bay what it is.
The storm run-off from urban development, things
like metals pesticides, fertilizers and oil, all affect
the estuary. If these contaminants are allowed to flow
through wetlands they have a much less of an affect than
if they're allowed to flow through, just, directly into
the canals or just directly into the basin.
NOAA, which is The National Oceanographic and
Atmospheric Administration which administers the National
Estuarine program at the national level, has a sampling
of sites throughout the country, over 200 sampling sites,
where they monitor for various levels of pollutants as
evidenced in the various kinds of oysters and other types
of mollusks and what they find, there are two basic facts
that fall out this research, one, that Rookery Bay,
compared to other estuarine systems in the United States
is relatively pristine. We're very fortunate to have
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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Rookery Bay. The other that falls out, if you follow the
amount of development around those estuarine systems you
can find a direct correlation to the amount of the
degradation of the habitat and the amount of urbanization
of it's watersheds.
So, we can not disconnects the watershed from the
Rookery Bay system. We have uncontrolled development of
the watershed. It will affect the Rookery Bay ecosystem.
Another issue, the number one issue of Rookery Bay,
is the watershed development, the rapid development in
the watershed. Other issues, that we address at Rookery
Bay are the manatee mortalities in this region. I'll
speak a little bit more about this later on.
We're also very concerned about protecting critical
wildlife habitats. The bird rookeries, seagrass beds and
other habitats within the reserve system.
The Rookery Bay staff, by its mandate, has to
preserve and protect this critical habitat for research
and education. The way we do this is basically a four
prong attack. We have resource management, education,
research and law enforcement all working together. The
resource management is, because our number one issue is
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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development of the areas around Rookery Bay, especially
the wetlands, resource management is involved in land
acquisition.
The land acquisition programs is on a loan
scholared program, no one is forced to sell their lands
and also, it's focus is on wetlands and areas that are
critical to the ecological function of Rookery Bay
habitat.
The Belle Meade area, which is the main drainage
basin into Rookery Bay, is a very critical habitat to
preserve. We have to preserve the ecological integrity
of the Rookery BaY system. Currently it is relatively
undeveloped and it's probably the main reason why Rookery
Bay has remained as pristine as it is today.
Other aspects of resource management at the reserve
is managing the habitats we already have within the
reserve which is quite a job as well. Things like
controlling exotic plants like Brazilian Pepper,
Mallaleuca, Australian Pines, those are all other
activities with the reserve.
We also try to restore habitat within the reserve
that were damaged. This is the site on Henderson Creek
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that was replanted with mangroves trees that originally
had been filled in. We were involved in replanting the
site and we're following the results of this as part our
research.
The other thing that's very important in restoring
habitats is trying to restore the natural flows to
Rookery Bay systems. The more we can get the flow back
to where it was naturally, flowing through the wetlands,
the better our chances of preserving the quality, the
water quality, of Rookery Bay.
Rookery Bay has been designated as a site for
manatee, we call it, a recovery site. We're involved in
manatee recovery as far down as Everglades National Park.
By being involved with manatees we're learning a lot more
about what are the causes of mortality of the manatees as
well as being able to get these animals to places for
rehabilitation so they can learn more about how they can
better help these animals injured in the wild.
The research at Rookery Bay is mostly focused on
monitoring the water quality and also monitoring the
conditions of estuarine critters, the things that live in
the water. Our research is set up in such a way that
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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we're trying to be able to tell when there's changes in
the environmental quality before it becomes a major
ecological disaster.
A lot of our research is focused on developing
techniques for early warnings of environmental pollution.
We don't want to get to the stage where we see fish
floating dead on the water and then say, oh, we have a
problem. We want to be able to see these ahead of time
so we're developing sensitive techniques that we can use
to follow the water quality of Rookery Bay.
Another aspect of the research program is
identifying critical habitats, this ducktails directly
into resource management, critical habitats that are
important to the functioning of this ecosystem.
One study in particular, the Advanced
Identification of Wetlands Study which is sponsored by
the EPA. It's studying areas in the drainage basin and
trying to see relative importance in various wetland
areas so that then you can pursue, through land
acquisition, areas and also allow EPA to, up front, know
the relative importance of various wetlands.
A very important part of the Rookery Bay Reserve
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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Staff job is education. The public, the public needs to
be informed about research results. They also need to be
informed about resource management decisions. This makes
resource management much easier. It allows research to
do what it's supposed to do, provide information to the
public.
We have school groups from high school and
colleges. We have adult education courses, coastal zone
workshops, all these programs are free of charge and
they're doing a great deal of informing the people of
Collier County about the environmental problems we have
in this area as well as some solutions to some of those
problems.
The law enforcement folks, which we have two
resource officers on staff, their duties are to patrol
the waterways and the uplands of Rookery Bay, keeping an
eye out for resource violations. They're also, they go
beyond that and inform people in terms of educating folks
in terms of what types of, what are the reasons behind
the regulations as well. There's a strong educational
emphasis on law enforcement.
In closing, there's a few groups I'd like to
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mention that are very important to Rookery Bay. In
particular, there's a support called The Friends of
Rookery Bay which are very, they do a lot more than just
Staff on hand can do. These volunteers, they assist in
research and education, resource management and have been
a great help to Rookery Bay Reserve. Also, other types
of groups like The Conservancy, Audubon Society, Nature
Conservancy are also very important.
In closing I'd like to go extend an invitation to
the commissioners at their leisure to come out and visit
Rookery Bay and talk to some of the Staff there, come out
and tour the facilities. We would be glad to talk to you
more about the programs out there in detail. Also, we'll
be sending you an informational package that feature some
of the programs in Rookery Bay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Any questions from Doctor Shirley? Thank you very
much. Before we move onto the protection mechanisms, I
understand that Wally Hibbard is here. Wally, if you'd
like to speak to us for a few moments, you're the, it
says here, the parks superintendent for the Big Cypress
National Preserve. Thank you for coming.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
43
MR. HIBBARD: Thank you for inviting me up. I
guess you wouldn't believe me if I said I wasn't really
prepared.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You're going to talk for 30
minutes anyway.
MR. HIBBARD: I could but I won't. Let me briefly
introduce you to Big Cypress National Preserve, which if
you look at the land map in terms of public property and
public ownership in Collier County it certainly
represents probably the major bulk of public property.
We were established in October, 1974, through the
boundary, excuse me, boundary expansion in 1988, we now
total 729,000 acres which, if you're into figures that's
1139 square mile but most importantly to us we represent
the national park system, the largest land mass east of
Big Been National Park in Texas.
Those people from Everglades National Park who had
their radar up, please understand I said largest land
mass, not largest area within a national park system
boundaries.
During peek seasons, we employ 90 persons.
a budget of over three million dollars, most of which is
We have
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spent right here in Collier County. In visitation we
contact almost 200,000 persons a year and to anchor that
Shark Valley on our east side which is part of Everglades
they have a 300,000 visitor number a year and the Gulf
Coast Ranger Station which is in Everglades City, they
have between 250 and 300,000 people a year.
we estimate and we think these estimates may be a
little low, we estimate that on U.S. 41 during a calendar
year, there are at least, 1.5 million people out there
because of the resource. They don't know that it's Big
Cypress or Fakahatchee but they are experiencing the
Everglades and the previous two speakers, I think, put it
very well in terms of the ecotourism and the ecodollar
that's coming into Collier County.
We're seeing a tremendous number of increased
visitation throughout what we call the off season. I
think the hoteliers are starting to see their shoulder
season expand and that primarily is due to the European
visitation.
Interestingly enough, there's a lot of people that
have waited a great number of years of their life to
visit what they call the Everglades to go slogging,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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walking up to their waist and armpits, whatever, through
this swamp that they have grown to understand and
appreciate.
The purpose of Big Cypress Preserve is to insure,
this is a quote from our legislation,
"The preservation, conservation and protection
of the natural scenic hydrologic flora and fauna
recreation values and to provide for the
enhancement of public enjoyment thereof".
In terms of issues that we face that have a direct effect
on our management, we, unlike the national park, the
national preserve has a number of consumptive uses in it.
A large number of people in Collier County do use and
enjoy the preserve. We have six active cattle leases
totaling 38,000 acres. We have 395 known archaeological
sites, endangered species, we have 14 Florida Panther
reside in or use a good portion of Big Cypress National
Preserve. We have 38 cjusters of endangered Red Caucated
Woodpecker. In total we have 12 species of endangered
plants and 12 species of endangered animals.
We have the largest prescribed fire program in the
national park system. We have the second largest overall
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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fire program in the system. The largest is in Yosemite.
Up until the fires started in 1988, I believe, in
Yellowstone National Park, the largest fire in any park
system was right here in the Big Cypress National
preserve.
We have hunting. We have hunters. We have 17,000
hunter days between September and April that hunt deer,
hog, turkey. We issue 2500 off the road vehicles,
permits, air boats swamp buggies and ATVs. We 100 to 150
Miccosukee and Seminole indians living in the preserve
from eleven villages. We have two American Indian
religious sites. We have two activities oil fields with
15 producing wells. Of course hydrology is an issue that
you'll hear and have heard and will continue to hear this
evening. The most important of the hydrologic system is
the quality of water, the quantity of water, the timing
and duration and delivery of those waters.
We are seeing salt water intrusion in Big Cypress
National Preserve. Now, we don't know where it's from,
whether it's from a lack of fresh water delivers at the
proper time or proper amount or whether it's from
infamous rise in sea level but we're seeing signs that
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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there is a trend of salt water intrusion.
Land use, we have 200 exempt property owners in the
preserve. In the addition area, it's going to bring us
another 146,000 acres coming to us through the land
exchange with Collier entities. We have a number of
other people living in Collier County who are subject to
county land use regulations as well as federal oversight.
Very simply put, these people can continue to use their
lands as they did at a certain point in time so long as
they're in compliance with county codes.
We're developing and have developed a good working
relationship with the county Staff but because it's out
there in hinterland, if you will, it's difficult for the
staff to get out there and see what's happening
especially with the growing development issues and code
enforcement issues in urban areas.
Systems management extremely important. I hope
you've heard that twice, you'll hear it again from me and
maybe several more times. It's also a trendy phrase I
think for, let's keep this whole area together to the
point where we don't continue to lose what's important to
keeping the system the most unique and in our, and
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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valuable in the world. It's a system that you don't find
anywhere else. Other countries and hemispheres have
streams, mountains, rivers lakes, ocean front but this
unique Everglades. system, part of which Collier County is
a major part of, is unique and extremely valuable.
We have a big chunk of land that is protected but
we also have a large boarder that is not necessarily
protected and we suffer just like everyone else under the
influences of what goes on outside our lands and we look
forward to working with you and being a major component
of your interest in the environment of Collier County.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Hibbard, thank you very
much. Are there any questions? Thank you.
MR. HIBBARD: I'll leave you a brochure.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Lorenz.
MR. LORENZ: For the record, Bill Lorenz,
Environmental Services administrator. My purpose here is
to briefly provide the Board with a general understanding
of how and why our Growth Management Plan addresses
environmental protection.
The plan, of course, was adopted in January of 1989
in response to the state growth management requirements.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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It is a very large document containing over 800 goals,
objectives and policies addressing a number of topics.
The conservation and coastal management element, given
with the recharge elements contains relatively 300 of the
800 goals, objectives and policies.
The state required the county to establish goals
addressing a number of natural resources including water
resources, minerals and soils, wildlife habitat and
endangered species, air quality, coastal barriers and
beaches and historic and archaeological resources. Thus,
the goals, objectives and policies of the conservation
elements set up to address these requirements as listed
by the state.
The state requirements however are not sole reason
for developing the appropriate protection strategies.
Future land use elements identifies and protects the
natural resource systems as a key underlying concept of
its land use strategy. It recognizes the wealth of
natural resources we have in Collier County and that
these resources perform functions which are vital to the
health, safety and welfare to the human population of the
county.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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It further states that the counties natural
resources are magnets to attract and retain visitors and
residents. I think some of the speakers that we've heard
just previously will attest to that fact.
Proper protection and management of our unique
national resources to insure their long term viability is
essential to support human population, assure a high
quality of life and facilitate economic development.
Again, this is coming out of the future land use element
that is addressing the natural resources and the
underlying concepts of land use strategies for the
county.
Rather than discuss specific programs contained in
the plan I'll just provide you with a general discussion
of the plan strategy for protecting these natural
resources. If we can now take a look at the protection
mechanisms identified in the plan, there are basically
two broad categories for classification purposes,
regulation and none regulatory mechanisms.
Many of the plan's policies were codified in county
land development code with some minimal changes soon
after the plan was adopted. Other policies directed the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES~ FL 33962
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county to develop a set comprehensive regulations to
address certain protection objectives. One example of
comprehensive set or regulations is the Ground Water
Protection Ordinance that was adopted by the Board in
November of 1991.
The Habitat Protection Ordinance and a series of
land development code amendments addressing the coastal
zone are examples that are now working through the public
hearing process. Indeed, the schedule for these, for the
Habitat Protection Ordinance and coastal zone amendments
scheduled to come before the Planning Commission on May
6th, with two public hearings scheduled before the Board
on May 19th and June 2nd.
These regulations have typically been developed to
apply to projects as the projects are submitted to the
county's review process. Thus the regulations focus
mainly on the project itself and not on the large natural
system the project finds itself.
The other set of strategies identified in the plan
are nonregulatory in nature and include land acquisition,
conservation easements, tax incentives and transfer of
development rights. The plan envisions these mechanisms
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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as a primary tool to protect relatively large, natural
systems. The protection of the large natural systems is
embodied in the natural resource protection area program
that's been enclosed in the conservation element.
This strategy, the NRPA program, recognizes THAT
permit programs a loan do not afford sufficient
protection for certain systems that will ultimately lose
their viability if permitted development is allowed.
What has been our general approach then, first we
have established very specific land development
regulations to be applied on a project by project basis.
Second, we have been identifying large, natural systems
where more comprehensive strategy is needed. Such a
strategy will combine regulatory and nonregulatory
mechanisms tailored for each large system under
consideration. Again, this is the underlying concept of
the natural resources'to protect areas of the program.
This approach is also consistent with the future
land use element which notes that the management of
natural resources system wide basis is fundamental to its
land use strategy.
Finally, we must recognize that permitting programs
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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alone do not protect the integrity of large systems.
Where large systems are threatened by fragmentation
through the granting of individual permits, other
protection mechanisms must be proposed to successfully
manage the total system.
Federal and state permits will allow development if
they don't allow reasonable use of proper they must
compensate land owners. Of course, typically this isn't
done, a permit is granted. Thus permits are granted
allowing some use of that on a cumulative basis may
compromise the integrity of the natural system itself.
Where will this approach take us? Basically, we
have two types of areas where our population growth will
occur. In the urban area, the existing urban area,
that's defined as out one mile east of 951, our existing
and proposed regulation will provide us with a green
space at smaller habitat systems but embedded in an urban
'environment. The trick here is to make sure that we have
sufficient green space for the population and the habitat
system themselves can function in this surrounding urban
environment.
Everywhere else, we will either have rural
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTy, NAPLES, FL 33962
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development pattern contained within a natural setting,
such as Golden Gate Estates where large environmentally
sensitive systems have a minimal to zero development. An
example is what you just saw Rookery Bay and Corkscrew.
You can almost envision this occurring if you look
at some of the aerial maps that we've shown in this room
here tonight.
How will the county, what would the county look
like in 50 years? That's the question we really have to
ask ourselves. Which systems will we designate here and
now, the present, to remain essentially free of
development so that as we go forward in 50 years we
understand that the Rookery Bay system, for instance, is
going to maintain its survivability.
In summary, the growth management plan provides us
a basic framework for developing regulations and other
protection mechanisms and recognizing the importance of
maintaining sustainable natural functions for the benefit
of the county.
Our success will be measured from the Board when we
move the clock forward 25 to 50 years and find out how
well our natural systems will be functioning for as
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
55
stated in the future lands use element. These natural
systems perform functions that are vital to the health,
safety and welfare of the county's residents. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Mr. Lorenz, I don't want to be overly simplistic.
You made a statement that, Doctor Stallings made the same
statement, that we need to recognize that permitting
programs alone, using your words, do not protect the
sensitive natural systems.
It's been, perhaps the assumption of a lot of
people, that if something's permittable by a state,
federal or local agency then by virtue of the fact that
it's permittable should be sufficient in terms of
regulation and what you're saying is that, that is not
sufficient.
I guess the question that I would pose is Doctor
Stallings mentioned several alternatives to perhaps the
regulation of permitting, he mentioned acquisition,
transfer of development rights, environmental easements,
mitigation banking and incentives not to development.
Can you, you may have already done this, if you
could spend a moment and talk about where we are heading,
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if we're heading anywhere at all, in reference to those
alternatives to permitting?
MR. LORENZ: The Board has given Staff direction to
look at transfer of development rights program. The
Staff is working on that. The other program were to be
developed through the Natural Resource Protection Area
Program such as the land acquisition, in other words,
finding out which areas of those systems that we want to
target for land acquisition, conservation easements and
the other types of mechanisms.
Right now, the Board has directed Staff to hold the
NRPA program until we have a workshop, that will be, it
looks like some time late May or June, to discuss the
Natural Resource Protection Areas Program where we can
further flush out some of these other mechanisms that we
have identified that would help to target more of the
natural, those larger, natural systems.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: One of the greatest criticisms
that we have experienced, I'm not blaming you or your
department, it's a matter of economics, one of the
criticisms is, is that we haven't moved quickly enough to
implement these types of programs.
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Perhaps you can spend a moment and tell us what you
think you need in order for us to make sure that we are
complying with the requirements of our growth management
plan for development regulations and also to develop the
NRPA AND other programs. What do we need to be dog?
MR. LORENZ: Right now, going through the public
hearing process with the Habitat Protection Ordinance and
the Coastal zoning amendments, we'll be addressing a
number of the growth management plan requirements.
So, for the Board, in terms of getting through the
process and providing a direction either to the Planning
Commission to move forward and ensure that we hold the
hearings at the time scheduled and then, of course, as it
comes to the Board, for the Board to give us a direction
one way or the other, I think will be very important for
those aspects.
Secondly, the Natural Resource Protection Area
Program which is again addressing larger systems, I think
is a requirement of our Growth Management Plan so getting
good, clear direction from the Board on that program to
implement it as we will recommend it, come back to the
Board with specific areas that we can then discuss the
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individual protection mechanisms I think will also
provide the Staff support to move forward.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS:
Commission Volpe.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
Any other questions?
Mr. Lorenz, the Growth
Management Plan is essentially a five year plan which is
amended or updated by annual, twice a year. How
important do you believe the build up study is that is
currently under way in addressing the long range
environmental issues?
MR. LORENZ: I think one of the things that we're
looking at is, the question comes, how much population
are we going to put in Collier County if we look at 50
years. You know, we keep trying to focus on the 10 year
projection. In the growth management plan, let's look at
the longer view of thing.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's the period of time you
were addressing.
MR. LORENZ: Yes. That build out is understanding
of where we want to follow that population growth as it
relates to these larger natural systems. If we, so to
understand how much population do we want to have in the
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county to sustain certain objectives is important, then
compare it against which natural resources are we going
to make an attempt to ensure that they remain as much as
a pristine or state so that they can maintain long term
survivability.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: My view is that it's critical.
Not only are we talking about where we're going to direct
the population but we're talking about the infrastructure
that's going to be required to support that population to
the extent we, the point of his discussion, there's so
much population, it will or will not have an impact on
the resource management and resource protection.
That's just a statement. I think it's important.
I think the Board's given direction for the staff to
proceed with build up study. I'm curious to know when we
can expect you will have the build up study presented and
available for public debate.
MR. LORENZ: That's another division. Perhaps if
someone's here from Staff, they will be able to answer
the question specifically.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS:
Okay.
Any other questions for Mr.
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Lorenz? Thank you, very much.
Our next speaker is Mr. Bernie Yokel. It's
certainly a pleasure to welcome you to Naples. When I
first moved to Collier County Bernie was here and very
active in the local environment.
Mr. Yokel, will certainly provide an interesting
perspective on where Collier County was 10, 15 years ago
and where we are now and we're heading if we don't take
heed to some of the things happening. Mr. Yokel.
MR. YOKEL: Thank you, Burt. I do appreciate this
invitation for a number of reasons. I think this is a
splendid concept. I think the commission should be
complimented for arranging this because it does some
important things. First of all, it brings people out and
it helps, secondly, it helps the Commission understand
what people's concerns are for these resources and I
think these concerns are deep and abiding in this county.
They are deep and abiding in this entire state.
Florida is an environmentally oriented state. I
think, until we have really done a lot more damage than
we have already done, it will continue to be an
environmentally oriented state. People come here because
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of the resources that they have expect to find.
I've got a quote here that I was particularly
appropriate. This came from Lou Harris about mid '80s
and it says, perhaps the most remarkable fact about
environmental issues is that the establishment
consistently both under estimates the seriousness of
pollution problems and the depth of feelings that the
public, the depths of public feelings about cleaning up
the mess.
People are concerned about the economy and they're
concerned about the environment and those two are not
separable. Again, I think these kinds of meetings were
important and I would urge you to do them on a regular
basis.
I think the commission has to recognize that what
you folks do will have a greater impact on how Collier
County looks in 2010 and 2020 and 2030 than you really
realize because the resources that you have now are all
that you're going to have. You aren't going to be able
to recover much. What you do recover, you'll recover at
very high costs.
So, the functioning resources that you have now are
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what you're going to have to work with into the future.
So, what you do to recognize those as important will have
enormous impacts into the future.
A little history about my personal outlook on this.
I brought my family here in 1970. In January of 1970 we
opened the Rookery Bay Marine Station and seeing those
slides of Mike Shirley's really were a nostalgic
adventure for me. That is a remarkable place to live.
If you want to get a sense of the importance of beauty of
this county you can spend a little time out there at
Rookery Bay. You feel as though you're in the ventricle
of an ecosystem and you can sense, you can sense, the
power of that system.
We lived out there for 14 years. I expected when I
got there I was going to be there for about two and we
managed to prolong it. It was like pogo in the swamp and
we revelled with every moment. We had manatees in the
front yard and bears in the back yard and snakes in the
house and that was literal.
Every fall, every fall, the other rat snakes in the
summer would crawl up and lay some eggs in the overhead
of the house and the heat of the roof and whatnot would
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incubate those and you'd be sitting there watching the
six inch snake would squirt across the carpet and you
knew it was about August or September.
So, it was marvelous place to live. The whole
experience was a great lesson. One of the important
lessons that I learned, not too long after I got there,
was that the scientist is only one step in this process.
This isn't a scientific process that came as a rude
awakening to me. I thought if you had data and that data
made sense and your peers said it was good data then that
ought to be enough. Well, it isn't.
This is not a scientific process, it's a political
process and the, you folks, are the referees in that
situation. You judge the data, you judge the value of
the work, you are the arbiters of the future and that's a
very important point and I don't think want to pile any
more responsibility than you really should have but-
that's how I see it.
And, the longer I've been away from Collier County
and looking at this problem on a state wide basis the
more I can understand the importance of that political
process.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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It became clear to me that if Rookery Bay was going
to have any meaning short of an academic exercise it was
going to be because the people in Collier County said
that data was good and that people power can be hitched
to the scientific data to cross that gap that exists
between science and the political arena.
So, it's really a three step process. It's good
data, it's environmental education and then it's
advocacy. You've got to translate that public support
and the data into a persuasive argument' that makes sense
for the community and for the decision makers that have
to decide how that whole thing goes.
The other thing that I learned there at Rookery
Bay, and this disturbed me as well, that it wasn't just
science. You know, I was turned on just enormously by
living down there and seeing enormous flocks of birds and
birds nesting and that whole system functioning and such
an attractive place to be and my kids were enjoying it
and getting so much out of it but, you know, that
argument didn't make it. You had, some how, to show that
this had some economic importance and it troubled me that
we had to convert this into some kind of a dollar sign to
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give it value in showing it's worth for protection.
Some of you folks in this audience, I'm sure, have
heard me say that Collier County sits on an economic
tripod. These were my comments in the 70s and early 80s
and I think it's true today. That tripod is composed of
tourism and agriculture and real estate and all of those
are water dependent, how you manage water is of essential
interest to agriculture.
It's also of high value to tourism. People come
here because they can find clean water, because they can
find fish in the water, shells on the beach and birds in
the air and that is a powerful economic magnet that makes
a big difference in this county and in this state.
If you don't have those resources functioning then
you'd better prepared to sacrifice some economic
advantages. That was persuasive argument then and I
think it's a persuasive argument now. As far as real
estate is concerned, people come here because this area
is attractive. They're drawn to those experiences and
when they retire or when they have an opportunity to move
down here professionally they will do so expecting to
find those resources in intact.
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In eight and a half years with Florida Audubon, I
have developed that concept a bit and I'd like to share
that with you. I think we need to look at the natural
resources in Collier County and in Florida as our
capital. This is something that we need to conserve
because the dividends on an annual basis are something
that strengthen not only the Florida experience but
strengthen our economy. So, there is a strong
interrelationship between this resource based economy, as
Ed Carlson described, good description, very strong
connection between that and the economy. It's
inseparable.
When you give away your environment, you have to
understand that you are giving a way some of your economy
in the process.
Another quote from Steve Kellert (Phonetic), a Yale
professor who is spent a good bit of time in Collier
County. He said,
"In each case you are confronted by the dilemma of
generating priceless for the priceless, of quantifying
the unquantifiable, of creating commensurable units for
things apparently unequitable." It sounds like an
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academic definition. There's a lot of wisdom in that.
There's a lot of hidden values in the environment.
There's a lot of money that comes into this county
because those hidden values are there and we can't
immediately and practically and conveniently put a value
on it.
The Capitol gives you dividends in clean water, in
abundant water, in water storage, in wildlife, in a
lifestyle that is still, even today, one of the more
attractive in Florida and certainly one of the more
attractive in South Florida.
If you are successful in sustaining that resource
based economy into the future then Collier County will
become so extraordinarily valuable because you will have
some of the only functioning ecosystems that remain.
It's been a great experience for Collier County to
be so slow in developing. We can, and I say we, I still
identify myself as a Collier County resident, but we can
stand tall and look to Dade County and Broward County. I
spent a lot of time last week in Broward County and I can
tell you that if that's a role model for Collier then
this is going to be a dim future. That's the sort of
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thing that can happen.
It happens because we don't manage our resources
properly, because we operate in an atmosphere of
polarized opinions and insufficient transfer and exchange
of ideas and that's why these kinds of meetings are
important. Everybody gets exposed to different ideas.
The point has been made tonight, and I've said it,
I've said it in public meetings and I'll say it again,
regulation in this state is inadequate. Now, that isn't
to say that we can do without it. We need it but it
hasn't protected the resources the way the public expects
them to be protected. They don't expect the time between
bites to get longer, longer and longer. They don't
expect to have to go additional miles to see the birds
that they used to see in a short trip or perhaps in their
back yard.
People are here, largely, because of ecosystems
that were or continued to function before or when they
arrived. The regulation, well, let me put it this way,
don't depend on the State of Florida to develop the
standards by which you want to protect your resources.
Local government, the people of Collier County, should
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say our resources are more important, perhaps and we want
stricter regulations. It's a dodge to say, the State,
DER, DNR, DCA, will protect our resources. It says that
you don't have a plan in place that adequately addresses
the importance of those. You're putting the
responsibility in another agency. I think that's a bad
mistake.
My part of this program is about land acquisition.
I would echo some of the comments of the earlier
speakers. What is vitally important is that you identify
the ecosystems that you want to be functioning in the
year 2025.
Look around now. See the ones that are there
because you're aren't going to be able to put them back
together in another ten years. You've got systems now
that are in reasonably good condition, identify them and
then begin to protect them because this is the source of
your resource based economy. This is your link to the
future. If you want the lifestyle in Collier County to
be the rich and exciting experience that it is today.
I'll tell you, having been here in 1970, it's less rich
and less exciting today than it was then but that's no
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surprise to anybody that's been here for a decade or
more.
P-2000, represent for the State of Florida, P-2000,
Preservation 2000, that's a three billion dollar program,
300 million a year for 10 years throughout the 90s is
catch up ball. It's the State of Florida saying, look,
we've got a lot of systems that we've got to acquire
before it's too late. Collier County needs it's own form
of P-2000. Identify those systems, get a grip on them,
and then protect them.
Ed Carlson has emphasized, and I will reiterate,
the importance of whole systems. They are here. Find
them now and begin that protective mechanism. Ask
yourself at the time there are changes proposed in those
systems, is this in the best interest of 2025. Is that
system going to function as well in 2025 if we do this
today. Keep in mind that you are the ones who will shape
that future.
Rookery Bay is another one. That was a major piece
of legislation. It was a major coup when Rookery Bay was
selected as a National Estuarine Sanctuary. You need to
protect that watershed. The whole watershed. Belle
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Meade is a critical part of that, as Mike Shirley has
noted. That's a wetland and if you want your telephones
to ring, if public works, I sat with the water management
advisory group here for more than a decade as chairman
for the last few years, if you want the Phones to ring in
your homes and in public work's home, then say, hey, get
the water out of my living room then allow building in
Belle Meade because that's the kind of problem you're
asking for. That is a wetland, it will be a wetland and
unless you go into extraordinary drainage processes to
dump the water into Rookery Bay, you aren't going to dry
it up.
These impacts are cumulative. Recognize the
systems, protect them now and then rejoice in it in the
future.
Now, how do you do this? Well, what I would
suggest to you is that in addition to meetings like this,
that the commission begin to try to bring the
environmental community and the business and development
community, the industry groups together. Florida Audubon
has done this. We've done it with some reasonable
success. There's a strong, strong interest in business
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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today to look green. Take advantage of it. There's a
strong interest in the environmental groups to try to
understand the importance of the economy and that's
something that environmental groups have got to learn
that good environment requires, this is part of the
independence, good environment requires a strong economy.
You've got to be able to afford to acquire areas
like Belle Meade and the CREW purchase. So, it requires
an economy that's functioning, that's healthy. Bring
those two groups together and begin to work out the plan.
Identify the areas that you want to conserve
reduces polarity because the polarity leads to a
fractionation of the resources. You get a whole bunch of
permit applications, requests for changes that bear no
relation to a master plan. They just want to do it here
and do it there and the commission is exposed to all the
pressures to sustain the economy but there's no measure
of what the costs of those individual permits are on a
particular system and what the long term, you capitalize
that cost over 20 or 30 years, that might not be such a
good economic idea. So, you need to ask yourself, to
what extent is this an economic advantage because there
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are prices, there are costs.
What's amazed me when we have worked and we've
worked successfully with differential businesses. In
fact, we had a symposium, a year and a half ago, and we
brought 25 o~ the policy makers and CEOis from some of
the biggest businesses in Florida together with 24
environmental leaders and we met for a day and a half and
what we accomplished there was the development of some
trust and that's the first step. You get together and
you decide, and in fact it's a revelation when you
discover that your position, your attitudes are reflected
in the development community. You got a lot in common to
start out with.
The next step, after building a little trust is to
take on a project. Let me ask you a question, if the
environmental community and the business community came
to you with a common project that they both endorsed, how
much opposition would they get from you? I would say
very little, very little. That's a powerful group when
the environmental group gets together with the business
group and comes to seek approval that works. Those kinds
of things are possible and they make this planning for
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the future a lot is easier.
This is a beautiful county. There are more
resources functioning here than any other place that I
know of in South Florida. You're at a point in time when
it's possible that some of those will be functioning as a
heritage to those who will come after and I think that's
one of the biggest gifts that you can give to people and
to the future. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Bernie, I was attempting to
write down notes on the important points that you were
making in your speech and I wound up with three full
pages and I decided I better get a tape of the
presentation.
You said an awful lot.
eloquently.
perspective.
You said it very
I think you put things in an excellent
One of the things that you mentioned was
awareness, public awareness, and understanding and I want
to thank you. I think you put a lot of things in
perspective. I certainly have a better understanding
after listening to you. The same is true with our other
speakers. I don't mean to minimize the impact the other
speakers that have presented to us tonight.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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Knowing your background and knowing the number of
years you spent here certainly gives me a better
understanding and I think with the community we have here
this evening, perhaps, it's a better awareness to the
public also. Are there any questions for Mr. Yokel at
this point?
There's none at this point. Hopefully, you'll be
staying here.
MR. YOKEL: Sure.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: As we go through this. We have
about 10 or 12 people that have registered to speak.
Does the commission desire to take a short break or
should we proceed straight through?
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Proceed.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We'll take a break until five
minute 'till eight. We'll proceed with public comment at
that point in time.
(A recess was had from 7:45 until 8:05
and proceedings continued as follows:)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ladies and gentlemen, our first
speaker is Mr. Jim McTague. I'll get back to Mr.
McTague. The second speaker, I believe, is Kenneth
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Sleeth and I apologize if I am mispronouncing that. Mr.
Sleeth.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good afternoon.
MR. SLEETH: Commissioners, I'm Ken Sleeth. I
don't live down in Sabal Palms but I do live up in north
Naples which is part of Commissioner Volpe's area but
also in the area of Ms. Matthews on Sabal Palm Road.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just a second. If you could
please keep it down, we're trying to proceed. Mr.
Sleeth.
MR. SLEETH: I largely enjoyed the previous
speakers. I think they're wonderful people and they
certainly do a great job in the field in which they're
are working. As Doctor Stallings said, when is enough
enough?
I happen to be a home owner down on Sabal Palm Road
and I give the example, it's interesting that this
meeting just happened tonight just after an experience I
had this afternoon. That was it.
property down on Sabal Palm Road.
I was working my land today.
I happen to have
I got 85 acres.
I noticed that when I
came out that there was some people which I thought was a
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neighbor of mine coming out of their own property. I
went out to see who it was and I found it was two state
cars from the State of Florida who were all over, people
were proceeding to come out of one of my neighbor's
property.
They inquired to me as to who was living back
there, why they were living in a trailer. I said there's
nobody living back there in a trailer. They wanted to
know who I was and I told them who I was. They said,
"Who cleared this road out and made it clear, smoothed it
up?" I said, "This was done by the trucking company who
in turn are drawing rocks from back of the pit."
They said, "This is unauthorized road. They have
no right to touch the road." They said, "What do you do
here?" I said I own that land over there and I said I
have to look out for my property." I'm here.
They said, "what right do you have out here on
public road?" I said, "That's not a damn public road.
That's a private owned road."
So, we got in a discussion and I said, "I would
prefer that you step off my property when in turn you're
talking to me." They said, "We're not on your property.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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It's a public road." I said, "You just told me a minute
ago it was not a public road." So, I said, "Step over in
the ditch if you want to talk to me because you're on my
property." At that point, they left in two state cars,
three ladies. Two in one car and then in the other, a
man and a lady in the other one.
Now, as Doctor Stallings said, when is enough,
enough? We live out there. I provide a very good area.
I look after my property as a lot of people do. It's
about time that we started to think about the people who
live out there.
Now, I'm going to make a proposal right here
tonight. I'm sick and tired. I'm a retired person that
came down here eight years ago. I'm not a native but in
turn I'm also very concerned about people in this area.
I do not destroy property. I provide, when I leave my
property it's usually in better condition than when I
received it.
Now, I'm going to make a proposal tonight to the
commissioners, to the Rookery Bay to the Conservancy and
all the areas involved, my property is now for sale.
will give you, as of tonight, my property, what it cost
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me, not a penny more. I have lost a lot of personal
finances, emotionally and I'm in turn, because of this I
am basically very emotional and have a medical problem.
Now, tonight my property is for sale and anybody
that wants to meet with me they will have this property
tonight. I will sign it over at my cost and not all the
emotional or financial costs it's cost me at this point
because I'm presently in a problem with the APA, not of
my doing but because of the county.
I applied for a permit to clear Malaleuca out of my
property, not pines, not cypress. I was told by the
county I need one permit. It could either come from the
state or from the federal.
So, to cover all the areas I
applied to the Army Corp of Engineers and I applied to
Southwest Florida Water Management.
When the water management permit came through, I
presented this to the county. This, as far as they were
concerned, was adequate to receive a permit to clear. I
cleared the land which was basically 90 percent
Malaleuca. I finished clearing the land when in turn the
Southwest Florida Water Management People were flying
over to tell me what wonderful job he's done. The guy
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from the Army Corp of Engineers was flying with them. He
said, you didn't get a permit from. They put a cease and
assist on me and since that time I have spent nothing but
hours in emotional and financial costs with the EPA,
trying to justify when this should never have happened.
I'm making a suggestion tonight, it may not affect
me in the future. I want to see the county, when they
send out a permit that in turn that individual, as I
would have been very happy if they had said you need two
permits, I would have been happy to get it. I want to
see the county to be able to know what they're doing,
when they're doing it and the have personnel around, in
turn, familiar with what the federal and state agencies
require.
So, once again i'll reiterate, my proper is for
sale tonight at my cost, no more, no lows less. I've
have lost both emotionally and financially. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Mr. McTague.
MR. MCTAGUE: I think these meetings are wonderful.
I hope there are more of them. I think you're very, very
wise to have Mr. McClenny (Phonetic) on your Board.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: He's not on our Board.
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MR. MCTAGUE: He probably will be pretty soon. I
do have one bone to pick with the Audubon Society,
Conservancy and so forth and that is that I now find out
why I can't get a seat in a restaurant all winter.
You're bringing all these tourists in here.
In any event, a couple of points that I will try to
make very brief. You heard Mr. Sleeth. Frankly, I could
bring in, if I had the air fair, 1300 people in here,
just from Belle Meade alone who are, have been and will
be hurt.
The, I'm trying to keep this cut down but basically
what it comes to is this, you heard Mr. Yokel mention the
Preservation 2000 program. It certainly is a well
supported program. At the present time, there are nine
hundred million dollars in bond issues which, of course,
are taxable matters for the people of the State of
Florida and of course in Collier County.
You also heard that someone mention that 48 percent
of our county is no longer on the tax roll and with the
other programs added to that there will be,
approximately, the way we have on an overlay, roughly, 80
percent of the county will no longer be on the tax roll.
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So, the anomaly of this is that we do need a lot of
money to buy the lands that we wish to have preserved but
no one seems to have figured out where this money's going
to come and with a plan, it strikes me that anything like
this ought to have some time frame and a budget and if
you don't have that you're going to end up in a serious
problem.
We're already in a serious problem because there
are roughly 85 projects around the State and they can not
be financed even though nine hundred million dollars is a
lot of money, it's a drop in the bucket to try to get the
amount of land that's on the various sundry purchase
lists.
Meanwhile, an awful lot of people are being hurt
and I am very much in favor of good environmental
planning. I always have been and I can establish that
very easily with anybody but for example, as one person,
I have lost a thousand acres in the Big Cypress which was
never owned by the Colliers, beautiful big pine trees,
and I was told to sell it at the price that they had in
mind which was peanuts or wait for 15 years and they
would do nothing.
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I have property in the CREW area, which is, I guess
that's been around eight or ten years now and it's still
sitting there and I get nothing from it. I'm 71, by the
time the money comes the out, it probably won't even pay
for my funeral.
I have property in the Belle Meade area, as do many
other people, and what I see happening is that there's
more and more and more resentment and not only here but
this is occurring around the whole nation and I think
it's because things are not being handled properly
If I came up to, let's pick Mr. Volpe's house, why
not, I don't know where you live Mr. Volpe but I'm sure
it's a nice house, and I said to you, Mr. Volpe, I'm
empowered by the State to tell you that you're house is
going to be purchased because we're going to make
something out of it, a memorial to Mr. Saunders.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'll try not to comment.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And I'm biting my tongue.
MR. MCTAGUE: On top of that, I tell you, I'm sorry
but you won't be able to sell it to anyone or at least
you'll have to divulge this information to anyone who
wishes to buy it but we won't be able to buy your house
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for, well, we don't know when. It might be 10 years, it
might be 20 years. I'm sure you wouldn't get up on your
house and say hey, this is the greatest idea since sliced
bread. I'm going to do this because Mr. Saunders is a
good friend of mine and.therefore it's a worthwhile
project. You would fight that.
These people who are being hurt like that feel the
same way. They like environmental planning as well as
anybody but you don't just go in and kill them
financially, is what's being done.
Now, making this short because I know that everyone
has to get home and eat their cookies, the point is that
you see the back lash of this happening around the
country. If you want to take it in the state, you
already have seen, if you're not familiar with it, I
think they call Senate Bill 1000, which is switched with
the legislature, establishes a committee to study inverse
condemnation, the plight of the land owners whose land is
being taken for various reasons and so forth.
This is just the beginning. It's going to cause a
lot of trouble and I think that perhaps, at more of these
meetings we can discuss this on a local level but there
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ought to be some kind of a plan that's a little better
that bludgeoning people and saying hey, you probably
don't like birds but we do like birds but we're going to
take your land anyway but we can't pay you for it and you
can't do anything with it.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS:
That's not a very good idea.
Thank you. We have 17 or 18
speakers so what I'd like to do is call the next speaker
and have the person that's going to be speaking,
subsequently, to come on up to the podium also so we'll
have someone waiting here. That will save a little bit
of time. I also ask you not to be repetitive of what
prior speakers have said.
The next speaker Arthur Lee. Following Mr. Lee is
Chris Pritchard.
MR. LEE: For the record, my name is Arthur Lee and
I'm the president of the State Anthropological Society.
People have been living in Collier County for 7,500
years. Now, these people use the same areas that we're
talking about tonight. The plants and the animals give
them nourishment. Their canoes use the waterways. The
banks of the waterways, the higher portions of it, give
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them places to have their homes. I'm talking to the
growth management plan, the county growth management
plan, reflects the public interest in the preservation of
the cultural resources t~at these people left behind.
However, no plan can be completely effective and
this is why I'm here tonight because it's a happy
coincidence that when you preserve the areas that are
being discussed tonight you also are preserving a part of
our cultural heritage.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS:
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS:
Beardsley.
MR. PRITCHARD:
Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Pritchard.
Following Mr. Pritchard is Gary
Thank you. My name is Chris
Pritchard and these are great cookies. Why are we here
tonight, I guess the underlying reason is the big money
grab, which I'm not against a money grab and I'm not
against buying wetlands and I've approached commission
before about the CREW Trust using the land bank to
purchase the CREW Trust Lands.
I feel that if we're going to spend millions of
dollars on roads and we're going to buy wetlands, we
should try and get $2.00 out of our $1.00 tax which is to
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buy those wetlands through the road department and then
give it to the CREW project. This will probably give
them more than their ten million dollars worth in the
long run.
I have one more idea, and I'll try to keep it
brief --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I will tell you that that is
something that we have been trying to do, in terms of
mitigation banking, is to get permits so that we can
actually mitigate road construction in various areas and
the CREW Trust area would be one of those areas. It's a
good idea.
MR. PRITCHARD: Before I get to my final point,
previous commission have sort of somewhat committed to
giving this money but I wouldn't assume that you would be
held to the decision of the '76 commission or commissions
earlier who made several promises and didn't follow
through.
My point is that you don't have to give them that
money if you won't want to. If they want it they can
take it the way that you're willing to give it to them.
Hopefully, that will be you're bargaining chip.
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I've heard that a lot of people aren't paying their
taxes who have money, who have property in these
wetlands. They're letting the money go walking away and
this is my, hopefully, it will work out as an idea, can
the county buy those tax certificates.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're doing that.
MR. PRITCHARD: You're doing that?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes.
MR. PRITCHARD: Okay, I'm very happy. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Gary Beardsley.
Following Gary Beardsley is Nancy Payton.
MR. BEARDSLEY: Good evening, Commissioners. For
the record, my name is Gary Beardsley, a resident of
Collier County. I've noticed a change in the speakers
tonight compared to a few years past where people would
talk about nice little areas like Corkscrew Swamp or
Rookery Bay but never make the next step which is a
connection to the development in the area and the
proposed growth and tonight I'm very happy to say I see a
lot of that connections and I think that's important.
If I had magic wand, I use this magic wand a lot, I
would take everybody in the room and transport us, like,
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to a spot into the future, 2040, and I would walk around
the community with the projected population of 583,000
people but with that teleporting and transporting us I
would say, let's, before we go, let's decide what quality
of life issues brought us here and we hope are preserved
into the future so that we're going with a report card in
hand to that future time and meet those people that
aren't here yet. I mean there's only 165,000 or so here
now and obviously our perception of why we moved here may
be different or may not.
Anyway, we'd spend a couple, three days, walking
around with the people and we would have engineers and
planners and real estate people and developers and
environmentalists and scientists and all these kinds of
people, growth management, regional planning counsel
people and we would try to talk to our peers at that time
frame.
Then, we would come back to today and we'd make a
balance sheet. What are the things we liked and what are
the things we didn't like and then we would try to
develop some kind of a consensus and action to try to
preserve what we came here for today because in the
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future we're going to be outnumbered by the new people.
They're going to have a different perception.
Let me tell you, people live in Tampa today, and
they live in Chicago and they live in New York and they
love it. They come down to areas like this where there's
wild and nature and they're very nervous just like we
would be very nervous in downtown New York, or I would
be, with nothing but skyscrapers.
So, this idea is to say, how can we develop some
actions that would sustain our vision into the future,
and I would say we could do that today. Wayne Dalton, of
the regional planning council, is mandated to do it. He
looks at Miami and he says Miami is about the population
that Collier County is going to be. What are the
problems?
Well, they have social issues. You can't swim in
Miami River, it's polluted, north Biscayne Bay is
polluted. The fish that the fishermen catch have been
increasingly with lesions and cancerous and problems with
fin rot and things like that. They have air quality.
They have water pollution. They've had to close down
potable well fields because they've been contaminated.
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The difficult decision that you and we have to make
is how can we accommodate 583,000 people and still have
some of those quality of life issues that we, today,
whatever that consensus is, have developed.
If we don't, and I've heard that thread among all
the speakers, if we don't have a clear vision we're bound
to just go like a ship without a rudder and that's, my
hope. is that we develop a consensus today. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Nancy Payton, and
following Nancy Payton will be Doctor Fitch.
MS. PAYTON: Good evening, my name is Nancy Payton,
I serve on the county's Environmental Policy Technical
Advisory board and I'm also chair of the Environmental
Network of Collier County which is a federation of the
county's environmental organizations.
At our April 1st meeting, we established an ad hoc
committee to draft a vision statement which I've shared
with commissioners tonight and I have plenty of copies to
share with the public at the end of the meeting and it's
our hope that this vision statement, which is entitled
the Environment is Everyone's Business, the Environment
Community is Everyone.
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Our hope is that the vision will help focus
discussion and will help all of us, not just the
environmental community but the business community, the
development community, the tourist community, reach a
consensus so that we can go forward and to constructive
discussions and actions that will protect the
environment.
It's also our hope that this consensus, which is a
draft, and may I add is certainly flexible, can level the
playing field for the environment and move the
environment up from the water boy to a first string
player, that it should get equal consideration with the
economy because ultimately it seems that the economy here
in Collier County is based upon our environment.
I want to make two brief points and then I'll be
done. First, I want to comment on the build out study or
the zone out study or whatever we'd like to call it, it
projects that there's going to be over a half a million
people here in our lifetime and the question comes to me,
that yes, we need to know, as Commissioner Volpe said,
where we're going to direct this population and what sort
of infrastructure are we going to have. A question also
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occurs to me, do we have to have that many people? I
just throw that out for consideration. Could we consider
a cap or something so that maybe we don't want a half
million people here in 20 years.
Secondly, my point is, and I've heard it a couple
times tonight, I read it in the newspaper and I do feel
it needs to be addressed and to be addressed in very
specific terms and documents and that is the percentage
of Collier County that's in public hands.
I have heard 40 percent. I've heard 48 percent,
I've heard 60. I've heard projections up to 80 and I
think that's a very important for us to pin down and
clarify. When talk about public plans, are we talking
about open spaces or are we also including churches and
schools and playgrounds? I think it's a very, very
important point because it misleads and there's a lot of
misunderstanding about that.
Those are my two point. I appreciate the time and
I commend the commissioners and I look forward to the
next meeting.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Following Doctor
Fitch is Franklin Adams.
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DR. FITCH: Thank you, very much. For the record,
my name is John Fitch and I'm president of the
Conservancy and a very enthusiastic resident of Collier
county.
I certainly appreciate the opportunity to make a
few brief remarks here. I'd like to start by calling
your attention to a map that's over there. There's a map
to the left and then there are two maps, one directly
under the other one.
The one that's lower is a map that was put out in
the 1840s and that was under Jefferson Davis who was then
in the federal government and that map shows what the
vegetation of the area was like at that time. That gives
us, I think, some very interesting ideas of what we'd
like to see this area be and also a sense of what it has
been in the past.
We really see this area of Collier County as having
been 80 to 85 percent wetland before. It has been
extensively drained and so as we talk about the amount of
land that is necessary to maintain the natural ecosystems
we have to take that into account.
Also, as we talk about the fact that the population
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is going to increase in the future, we've got to
understand that not only do we need some built
infrastructures to accommodate that but we also need even
more natural infrastructure, as you will, to accommodate
the population.
In fact, I think that one of the real challenges is
how do we conserve the natural infrastructure that people
already mentioned and how to we integrate our built
infrastructure into it because that's really necessary if
we are to effectively conserve it.
It should be evident that Collier County's rich
natural infrastructure can maintain these natural
resources and quality of life and some of the other
aspects that we value so much at a fraction of the cost
that we can do so ourselves. Where we could be forced to
develop the infrastructure to conserve those areas.
Why is that important? Because Collier County's
natural infrastructure, it's natural resources and
environmental quality, those are the major things that
distinguish us from areas like Miami, Fort Lauderdale and
even LA. These are the areas that really can not be
readily replaced and they define the areas, present and
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future opportunities.
Another thing that's very important to realize is
that the natural lands are not very expensive to
maintain. According to a study by the American Farmland
Trust, natural lands cost only about ll cents on the tax
revenue dollar to maintain versus 29 cents per dollar for
agricultural lands and as much as a $1.25 for every tax
revenue dollar.
Now, when you consider ecotourism and some of the
other opportunities then we're talking about tremendous
net value for our natural lands if you want to place it
in an economic perspective.
There are some difficult things required in
conserving our natural infrastructure. One, is
developing a shared vision of the future. Another is
turning that vision into a plan that really works and the
third and most important one is the political will and
courage to see that plan through and that's the real
challenge that we face right now because it's always
easier to get carried along by an unplanned or poorly
planned growth because the loss of Collier County's
natural infrastructure will occur incrementally rather
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than all at once. But, the end result of unbalanced or
undirected growth is certainly degregation of basic
environmental and economic values and quality of life.
So, I'd like to leave with this thought, an old
Chinese proverb, those who don't plan end up heading in
the direction or end up in the direction that they're
headed and I think that this is the challenge that we
have here in Collier County.
We stand at a crossroad right now. We have a
tremendous opportunity to conserve the trust the
fabulously rich trust that we inherited from the past and
make that into an effective quest for the future and I
think we can do that. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Sally Lam will
follow Franklin Adams.
MR. ADAMS: For the record my name is Franklin
Adams and I'm delighted to be here this evening. I hope
that this get together serves as a catalyst for future
meetings of this type where we can, us and you, can get
together and share our mutual concerns and educate each
other at that time.
I'm a native floridian. I lived in South Florida
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all my life so that automatically puts me in a minority
position and I don't suppose that gives me any more
special rights than someone that moved here a year ago to
Collier County but what it does give me is a perspective
on what this County used to look like when, essentially,
there was one road here and that was Tamiami Trail, we
call it 41. There was no 951 or 846, most of the
arterial roads were not here.
When I look at the maps on the wall and I see these
systems that many experts talk about, that's what they
are, they're systems. We draw arbitrary lines on the map
of counties and political jurisdictions but natural
systems don't flow that way, they don't recognize
by-lines on a map.
I remember many of these systems because I had
opportunity to fish, hunt, canoe, bird watch and just
spend time relax in them. When I look at the maps today,
the ecosystems are a heck of a lot smaller than they once
were. They are still functioning systems but they're
remnant systems.
I think it's important that on a day-to-day basis
that we think about natural systems like we think about
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our body. If you cut off the head, it's over for that
system.
I'm of the opinion, and there are many people in
this room now that's going to share this opinion with me,
that who are looking at, and I'm a businessman here in
Naples and I know how I have to run my business to
survive, I think in looking at the economics of this area
and how the environment's tied to it, that all too often
in the economic equation, when we look at an applicant or
a request develop a piece of raw land, that the
consideration it perceives is here and the environment is
still, somehow, a stepchild.
It should be, in my opinion, that when you look at
something, an application comes in, that you're thinking
how is this going to effect the environment, how is this
going to effect my quality of life here.
I would urge you to, if you don't already do that,
to make that a part of your daily consideration. Earth
day is just around the corner. We could begin by getting
more heavily involved in the CREW purchase and look at
the Belle Meade system and what remains here for us.
Thank you.
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Chris Stratton will
follow Sally Lam.
MS. LAM: My name is a Sally Lam. I'm a relatively
new resident of Collier County. Like many other people
we moved here because it was so beautiful. I guess it
was Bernie who mentioned the feeling you get. I mean I
can remember getting off the plane and, just, my heart
just would soar. It's a beautiful place and I would like
to see it stay that way.
When I announced at the A.A.U.W that their would be
a support meeting I asked the people at the luncheon, how
many of you have noticed the deterioration in the
environment since you've been here.
up.
All the hands went
I think when you think about it, we're on a trend
and perhaps we need to flatten it out a little bit, give
ourselves some breathing room so that we can at least
maintain things. I just would like to suggest that you
commissioners have perhaps the most unusual and wonderful
opportunity to go down in history in Collier County as
being commissioners who really did something for the
environment and then we'll buy your house and put up a
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monument.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS:
Eileen Arsenault.
MS. STRATTON:
Following Chris Stratton is
For those of you that have not
turned in your questionnaire I'll be glad to take them
and guess what guys we're going to summarize them and
present them to you at a later time.
Briefly, I was able to summarize that of the
questionnaires that have been turned in 22 people felt
that the environment in five years would be much worse in
Collier County, 21 said worse, 3 said the same, there are
a couple of crossed fingers there and we do have some
optimists, 9 people are optimistic. I wanted to share
that with you.
What I wanted to do is just to tell you a little
bit about me and why I'm an environmentalist. I was
trained as an economist. I made my living for a
regulated utility, fighting regulation. I'm an avid
property rights person but when I came down to Florida
and I went through two years of water restriction, I
began to become environmentalist.
When I saw eagles that I thought were protected,
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not exactly protected the way I thought they were to be
protected, I became a public environmentalist.
Now, I have to say as a result of, you know,
Commissioners Volpe talking about the build out study and
that by the year 2010 our population will triple, we'll
all be crammed in from one mile east of 951 to the waters
edge. I then became a rabid environmentalist but for
very selfish reasons. I can't use the beach the way I
was able to when I first came down here. I'm not able to
get the water to use it the way I was be able to. I
don't see the birds I was able to see before and so as a
result of that, I became very, very concerned about
what's going to happen.
Thank God we have landscaping of the medians and
beautiful berms because I'm afraid that's what our green
space is going to be. Now, I don't think that will
happen. I think we have an opportunity now to really
address those issues.
I have a great deal of empathy for the people in
Belle Meade. If your property is put on the list and
you're number 48 and only the top 10 are in the money,
then, I feel for them but I also would like to extend
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this rabid environmentalist hand to them and suggest that
perhaps if we work together we can get them moved up the
list so that in a couple years they will be able to sell
that land that's currently under water. I would also
like to say --
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We're not water. You're an
environmentalist?
MS. STRATTON: Excuse me.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ladies and gentlemen, please,
if you'd be courteous and let everybody say what they
want to say. If you want to get up and speak you'll be
given that opportunity.
MS. STRATTON: Obviously, there's an opportunity
for the environmental community to work with the
developers and property owners, and the realtors and I
encourage this Board to do that. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MS. STRATTON: One statistic I would like to share
before I give up the podium. Miss Payton talked about it
is 50 percent of the public land or whatever the number
is. Well, I did want to look into what the tax space is
and I did go up to the property appraiser's office and on
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a 16.5 billion dollars tax space, those lands that fall
in the land development code characteristics of forests,
parks or city, county, municipal, federal including
amounts to 600 million dollars. It's a very small
percentage of the tax space while it might be a large of
the land masses.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Following Eileen
Arsenault is Ellen Linblad.
MS. ARSENAULT: First of all, I'd like to thank you
for putting more time into what is already a time
intensive job. I appreciate being given the opportunity
to be here. Commissioners, this is a very crucial time
in our history of the county.
I don't think anyone on the east coast of Florida
made a conscious decision to turn a tropical paradise
into a concrete jungle. It just happened because of
momentum, it's the same momentum that we're faced with
now.
So, you are being ask of almost the superhuman task
of not only reversing that momentum but also turning a
four year job into a 20 to 30 year vision and I hope you
will be able to rise to the occasion.
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I applaud you for recognizing the importance of
meeting with people who are concerned and I also want to
support, encourage your support, of the CREW acquisition,
also to encourage you to you support the idea of
identifying the important ecosystems. We've been saying
this for years. At every commission meeting I've gone
to, I heard it. I've also heard Staff being asked to do
a million things and I think this is something that is a
definite priority. We heard it from everyone here that
we want to know where they are first before we spend it.
I've not heard anything about alternative energy
technology or water saving devises. We know that water
is crucial to this area. I hope that when the event does
come, when you're faced with choices in your own back
yard, in the county commission and also the developers,
people trying to build hotels, that you will give, be
receptive to those kinds of technologies.
One thing I did want to just leave you, I have a
quote from the Nantucket land counsel annual report of
June 30th. Nantucket shares with us being a popular
destination for tourists and having finite, but very well
regarded resources. This group commissioned a study by
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an engineering firm, RKG Associates on the economic
impact on Nantucket. Their report indicated, and I'm
quoting, "That our economy was more dependent on tourism
than on new construction, that the cost of servicing an
average new dwelling exceeded the average tax receipt and
that every acre put into conservation saves taxpayers."
In short, a lower rate of growth would reduce the
needs for higher operational costs, for capital
expenditures, for tax increases and overrides and would
have benefits with respect to our fragile environment and
the quality of life for our residents and businesses.
I'm not saying that you draw the exact analogy for
the study here but I think that you can see the writing
on the wall that this is a very vital, economic point and
I hope that it will be well regarded in your tenures.
Thank you, very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Brad Cornell will
follow Ellen Linblad.
MS. LINBLAD: Good evening, Commissioners. I'm
Ellen Linblad with Accrued Trust. I think we have to
assume if land is privately owned that it can and will be
developed at one point in time. As pressure grows to
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developed areas, pressure will also grows to ease up on
regulation.
Regulations can be changed as fast as they're made.
And, it's also important that if lands are privately
owned, there will be no way to assure that they're going
to be managed corrected with the waters or a watershed
ecosystem.
So, I urge you to support our land acquisition
program so these lands will be saved in perpetuity.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS:
Cornell.
MR. CORNELL:
Wayne Jenkins will follow Brad
For the record, my name is Brad
Cornell. I live in Naples. I want to thank you very,
very much for holding this meeting on such an important
issue. I really appreciate the opportunity to hear what
everyone else has said and I'm glad that we have this
opportunity.
I think that planning is essential to ensure the
quality of life and the environment that we all have
moved here for and to enjoy. I fear that the
implementation of some or that without the implementation
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of some type of local, comprehensive protection plan soon
our water resources and natural treasures will be
nickeled and dimed to death.
Therefore, I'd like to recommend what Mr. Lorenz
proposed in the natural resource protection areas
concept. Collier County needs to keep its resource
protection on the local level rather than let it all be
administered at the state and federal level. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: David Maer will follow Wayne
Jenkins.
MR. JENKINS: Good evening, Commissioners, ladies
and gentlemen, my name is Wayne Jenkins. I am a lifetime
resident of Collier County. Having been born here in
1947, I've seen a few of the changes we've been talking
about tonight.
I have heard good ideas and I hope you follow
through on some of them because we do need to see some of
this land for future generations.
In addition to good ideas, I'd like to share what I
feel is a problem with you tonight. I'd like to talk for
just a moment about Section 25, Section 25 for the
members of the audience who may not know it is the area
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just presently north of the Naples, Collier County
Landfill.
This, the county, is in the process or nearly
completed buying a half mile by one mile wide section to
expand the Collier County Landfill towards the residents
of Golden Gate. This is something that in my 47, 46
years living in Collier County, it's the first time I've
ever seen a landfill expanded towards the population.
I've seen it move three times away from it.
The land that they're proposing to buy at this time
is relatively virgin, undisturbed pine, pinelands and
cypress wetlands. It's kind of personal with me because
I live on the edge of this section and this land that
they're proposing to strip. It's now home to such
animals as deer, turkey, I have the pleasure of seeing
these ones in a while, caucated woodpecker. I've had
them nest a hundred yards from my house, gopher tortoise,
I see fox squirrels daily.
I think it's just a tremendous waste with what
we're talking about tonight to see this kind of land
destroyed for a dump when we have already disturbed areas
in this county such as rock quarries, farm fields,
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pasture lands that have already been disrupted. The
solid waste director has stated in some of my previous
conversations with him that there's going to be no danger
to ground water. I draw my water from this ground and I
can't believe with a dump next to me it's going to be
safe to drink in the future, not only my water but the
City of Naples water comes from Golden Gate also.
So, it's a problem. I know that economics is a 10t
of it. We look at where can we save the most money. We
can buy that land right around the dump for a cheap value
because you tell people it's next to a dump because
there's no value to it.
When I purchased my property relatively 10 years
ago the land value was in the neighborhood of 5,000 or
$6,000.00. They tell me now they're offering $4,000.00
and $3,000.00 an acre for this land. I'm sitting on 10
acres and I can't replace my 10 acres for that kind of
money in Collier County and I don't want to leave it.
So, I'm going to close this comment to you to
consider, is this move in the best interest of Collier
County and I think not. I'd like to ask you to look at
some other alternatives. Thank you.
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. George McBath is
following David mayor.
MR. MAER: Thank you. My name is Dave Maer, I'm
chairman of the Environmental Policy Technical Advisory
Board, Board of Collier County Commissioners. First of
all, I'd like to thank Ed Carlson for reminding me why
I'm here in Collier County, why I like it here in Collier
County. He brought tears of joy to my eyes and also
tears of frustration but thank you for reminding all of
us why we're here and whether we know it or not that's
why we're here.
I'd like to make a few very brief points, first
being why permits not enough to protect our natural
resources in Collier County. First of all, I need to
also identify myself as a state employee but a state
employee who gets permission before they trespass on
property and always knows where they are.
Permits are not enough because they address
environmental issues on a permit by permit basis. They
do not take into consideration the system's functions
that we've all been talking about tonight. If we try to
save the county's resources strictly with permits we'll
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end up with a network of patchy, fragmented, disconnected
pieces that no longer operate and provide values that we
need to have for high quality of life in Collier County.
Who is EPTAB? I think we're a relatively
unrecognized board as far as the county is concerned.
We're 11 members of the general public made up of a
variety of people in the community. Primarily, people in
the agricultural business and legal community and believe
it or not there's only three biologists on this board and
despite that disparity and despite the overwhelming slant
towards the development community, we are unanimous in
recognizing the importance of systems, a systems function
in protecting these natural resource in Collier County.
We've identified the important systems. That's
been part of our job over the last year and a half.
We've put these areas on maps. We've drawn the lines.
We're now engaged in the very difficult process of coming
up with strategies to protect them. This is going to be
the difficult part but the most important first step is
identifying these lands first. We need to know what
we're talking about before we can move ahead so I think
we made tremendous progress in that regard.
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The next comments are based mainly on my own
personal experiences is and biases I will not represent
EPTAB at this point. The answer to when enough is enough
in Collier County I think is never.
In recognizing the importance of the systems, we've
talked about the fact that more than 80 percent of the
county was in wetlands at one time. We're beyond the
point where we can say, really, what was required to
maintain the best environmental sociological situation
for the citizens of the county.
But then the question comes up, well gee, if it's
in public ownership, it's off the county tax rolls, it's
not making money for the county, it's worthless land.
This is not true. I use for example, Florida Panther and
Natural Wildlife Refuge which came to be in 1989.
Twenty-five thousand acres was owned originally,
primarily, by the Collier families. I believe the
Colliers paid something on the order of $15,000 a year in
taxes to Collier County. Fish and Wildlife Service
currently writes a check on the order of $70,000.00 to
Collier County per year to offset the loss of county
revenue. This is a four fold increase over what they
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were getting before that time.
So, I think there's some interesting solutions that
can be compelling arguments for proceeding with
acquisition as well as variety of other land protection
choices.
I'd like to leave with a challenge to the
environmental leaders in this room, many of who I know,
most of you know me, Bernie, Ed, Frank, John, Wally, Ken,
Burt, Gary, Fran, Chris, et cetera. We all know what has
happened to the Everglades. We can see what's happened
is development has chopped that area up, altered the
water flow, polluted the waters and made it an unsafe
place for people and wildlife.
The Everglades coalition exist to protect that area
and to restore it and over the years the Big Cypress
basis has been dragged along, sort of a bastard sister
and really not given the attention that the Everglades
system has gotten.
I think the time is right. I make this challenge
to all of you in the room, particularly the environmental
leaders, to break away from the Everglades coalition and
to form one of our own. Call it the Big Cypress
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Coalition, call it the Collier County Coalition, but
include the commissioners here or a representative from
the Board of County Commissions and representative from
all the environmental groups in Collier County and I
think you will have a very powerful influence on the
decision making process, not only by Collier County, but
state and federal governments. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Lawrence Pistori
will follow George McBath.
MR. MCBATH: My name is George McBath and I'm a
resident of Collier County. I'm very concerned about the
projected population increases for Collier County and
availability of fresh water, both for human consumption
and for Collier County's functioning ecosystem.
I'm concerned for the, about the potential for salt
water intrusion. I'm concerned about the potential for
lower water table places Corkscrew Swamp, Big Cypress
Preserve and other fresh water ecosystems in Collier
County. I'm very disappointed with Collier County
Commissioner's failure to fund the CREW trust.
I urge you to raise my real estate taxes and
everyone else's real estate tax in Collier County to pay
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for Collier County's CREW acquisition.
In addition, I echo Bernie Yokel's suggestion that
Collier County needs it's own P-2000 pool of money to buy
environmentally sensitive lands. When lands adjacent to
Collier Seminole or Fakahatchee or Rookery Bay or Belle
Meade become available for purchase we need a ready pool
of money to make such acquisitions.
Mr. and Mrs. Commissioners, please raise my real
estate taxes and everyone else's real estate taxes to
generate a pool of money for environmentally sensitive
land acquisition in Collier County. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Following Lawrence Pistori is
Perkins. I can't read the first name. Is that A1
Perkins.
MR. Pistori: My name is Lawrence Pistori. I'm a
resident of Naples. I've been visiting Florida for the
last three or four years on my vacation periods and I
purchased several pieces of land here. I've seen the
drastic changes that's taken place here. Personally, I'm
dismayed. I'm not a hermit but I think that what has
happened has been too drastic, too fast of growth, many
problems have occurred but that's not my point. My point
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is that I purchased land in Section 25. I may be
repeating but it's necessary, 20 years ago, and at that
time where you could only build a home on two and a half
acre plots and for many years with we tried to get a
permit to put a boat in there. We were never able to get
one, I wonder why.
Now, they want to expand the landfill in that
section. I think it's a bad idea. It's got a potential
for polluting the water and the air. It's too close to a
residential area. They said that there were, if you put
garbage on that land, I use the rough word garbage on
that land, it will eventually filter into the water
system. They're saying no, we're going to put vinyl
liners underneath there but when you have heavy rain
during the rainy season that water will not be able to
filter into the land, it's going to go into the canal
which is very close by.
So, to make it short, I say it's a very poor idea.
It's too big of a potential for polluting the canals
around the area and also the air. I here people speaking
on WNOG about these problems of a very foul odor around
the landfill. So, my objection is that I don't think
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it's a very good place and there should be another more
favorable place to the environment could be found in
another area away from population and from water canals.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Following Mr. Perkins is our
last registered speaker, Doctor John Staiger. Mr.
Perkins.
MR. PERKINS: Commissioners, ladies and gentlemen,
you're not going to like me. I can tell you that right
now because so far tonight I've heard the commission
being stroked by all the people who are paid employees of
one agency or another about the Belle Meade and the
environment.
Now, at the same time, too, in reference to the
Belle Meade area, nobody brought up the fact that they're
going to loose 116 million dollars worth of tax money.
somebody's going to make it up. How about the $80,000.00
for Key Island plus the fact that it's going to be a
private beach for the club at the end. You're going to
pay for it.
Now, P-2000.
dollars.
They want to borrow three billion
Now, I want to know whether it's going to be
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dorch marks, yen or is it going to come from Saudi
Arabia, the money, because this country's broke. Every
one of you people owe $18,000.00 and so does your
children and so does their children, right today. You're
not paying your bills but you want to borrow more money
to buy stuff that is going to hamper the entire community
in Collier County.
Now, these employees get their nice wages, bonuses,
medical, vacations, transportation vehicles and all the
rest of the perks, just lie their Congress. The only
thing they don't have is a bank at the moment. They're
working on it.
Now, one of the biggest things that I've got going
is nobody even mentioned about the evacuation routes that
are necessary so that they can get the people off of
Marco Island and Goodland in case of an emergency. This
exists. This is documented. At the same time, Sabal
Palm Road needs to be put through and if the South
Florida Water Management stops them, they should be held
criminally negligent when somebody gets hurt and so
should the Conservancy. Rookery Bay, the Department of
Natural Resources and by the way, you people can hate my
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guts, I don't really give a damn but let me tell
something, at the Belle Meade meeting the DNR up in Fort
Myers which we weren't invited to put input into this
thing --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Perkins.
MR. PERKINS: Sir?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You need to address the
commission, please.
MR. PERKINS: Okay. I'm addressing everybody
that's paying the bill.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: They can hear you.
MR. PERKINS: You've heard it all before. At the
same time too, the~Department of Natural Resources out
there invited, it was 35 of us that told them, we did not
want to be on the list for purchase. At that same time,
before they took the vote on it, the stuff was already in
the mail about their intent to purchase.
Now, as far as I'm concerned, that's socialism.
They're already cut and dried. I didn't have a chance.
I wasted my time and money by going there and I resent
it. I thought this was America.
Now, back to the evacuation of routes of Marco
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Island. I don't know whether you people even know where
the Belle Meade area is, much less do you care. I heard
somebody say tonight it was full of water. I could
strike a match out there and burn the whole damn place up
in a heartbeat and there's no way to get the fire trucks
If you don't believe me, ask the fire chief
out there.
down there.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS:
Mr. Perkins, address us,
please. We'd appreciate it. When you turn around and
face the audience you're losing your microphone so
they're not hearing these words of wisdom.
MR. PERKINS: Well, I'll speak louder. Not one
time have I ever heard the Conservancy, Rookery Bay,
Department of Natural Resources of Collier County say
stop the hunting nor the fires prevention in the Belle
Meade area out there, not one time yet. They burn the
place down and they tell me, we're going to save the
trees. Look at the trees. The Conservancy seems to put
them on the wall. What's wrong with sheet rock? Cut
down the trees and put it up. Cypress no less. We're
talking out of both sides of our mouths here.
Okay, I also heard tonight, somebody says, well, we
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don't want a half million people in this county. Well,
what are you doing in this county? Were you invited here
or did you come here because the road that led you here
can lead you out of here.
Now, when I say to somebody from New York, listen,
just because you talk Brooklyn east, I don't want you for
my neighbor. What's the sense, I should say that to an
Afro American or to the chicano or to somebody from Cuba.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Perkins, you need to --
MR. PERKINS: Okay, I get little hot about this.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I need to ask you to rap it up.
I don't want to cut you off. It's getting late and we
need you to get on with your point.
MR. PERKINS: My point is that if you fund these
things they'll be turned right around and used against
you and that includes P-2000 or any of this other
nonsense; before you put kids and people, as far as
evacuation routes, in the Belle Meade area. Those roads
need to go through.
If you're going to take the side of the Belle Meade
area and try to buy it up somehow to provide water for
the farmers then you better include the farmers in the
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Belle Meade area, include the swamp buggy track in the
Belle Meade area, include the doggone development along
951 in the Belle Meade area.
out of there.
Now, you've already voted on it.
Either take it all or get
You didn't in
particular because you didn't want to do it but the rest
of the commissioners, voted to get off the CAR (Phonetic)
list. Now, at the same time, too, other things have come
to light where CAR means recreation. Have you ever been
down at the T? Are all of you going to stop the people
from going in there because they say there's too many
recreational vehicles in there and they're dumping their
sewage. Yes, check with the, what's the guy's name, Dick
Clark, of the band stand.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Perkins I'm going to ask
you to rap up things in about one minute if you could.
MR. PERKINS: Okay. The whole point is, if you're
going to act in the best interest of the people of
Goodland, Marco Island and Collier County, you better do
something about getting the roads through to provide
adequate access for fire trucks, emergency vehicles,
ambulances, the whole bit through the Sabal Palm Road and
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through the Miller Boulevard extension. Funding should
be available for this stuff and if you don't then you're
standing in the way of progress but you're also leading
with your chin to a lawsuit and they're going to lose.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Doctor Staiger is our last
registered speaker. Doctor Staiger, we do not
necessarily save the best for last.
MR. STAIGER: I sort of have a pessimistic attitude
about this thing but I have really have been enlightened
I think, or at least, have a very positive feeling about
all the wonderful things that I've heard tonight.
I have a very specific request of you. You may
recall, those of you who've been on the commission longer
than the rest, that we had a ground water protection
ordinance that came before you a couple years ago.
I was a chairman of the technical advisory
committee who worked with county staff for three plus
years in developing that ordinance and we had one piece
of unfinished business when we completed it which was to
address the issue of protection of the aquifer recharge
areas. This is something that was part of what we wanted
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to do but it was really impossible to get it al1 into one
ordinance.
T~e EPTAB Board is now looking at that issue as
part of its charge and it is working with county staff to
develop a program for protection of the recharge areas
for our well-fills and the aquifers that we may have to
use in the future to provide drinking water for this
projected growth.
I think that it is important that when EPTAB and
the Staff together produce a work product for you all to
consider that you address it with a considerable amount
of attention. Our drinking water supply is something
that we really need to worry about here. I say this
somewhat selfishly as a city employee because our well
field is in the county, most of it.
There are several maps over there which indicate
the areas of high aquifer recharge. They also happen to
coincide with the wetlands of the CREW trust and some
other purchases. It's a very noticeable connection but I
think that it's important when that program is developed
that the Board of Commissioners address it rather
promptly and I appreciate it if you would because we
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didn't have a chance to two years ago.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, Doctor Staiger.
That concludes the public comment. I think it
would be appropriate to see if the members of the county
commission have any observations, any recommendations or
thoughts concerning discussion.
Constantine.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE:
Commissioner
Just very briefly, I
want to thank everyone for coming out tonight. One of
the difficulties of being on the commission is trying to
make knowledgeable decisions on everything we do, from
transportation to the environment and everywhere in
between.
So, it's nights like this that help us, I think,
understand some of the issues and when issues come up,
specifically, during meetings where there is to be a
vote, oftentimes, a motion is the carrying factor of the
day with the various sides and tonight, just to hear
things presented in a straightforward manner and try to
get a clear understanding, for me any ways, has been very
helpful. So, I want to say thank you for coming out and
sharing what you have to say and where you're coming from
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on these issues with us.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS:
Matthews.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
Commission Volpe. Commissioner
Well, I too would like to
thank you all for inviting us and for attending this
workshop. I think that these opportunities are
invaluable to allow for the dialogue between different
segments of our community and your elected
representatives. They're invaluable and gives us a
better sense of the concerns that are in the minds of all
of you.
I know that someone mentioned this evening, they
characterized our role as that of an arbitrator or
referee. I think a part of that we should be consensus
builders. I think we have the opportunity as elected
representatives to try build some consensus and hopefully
we'll work at attempting to do that because as we see
this evening, there are competing interests and rather
than being the arbitrator or the referee I would like to
think that we could serve more of a role of a consensus
builder.
This evening, for me, has underscored something
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which I already knew and that is that the importance of
growth management will in fact be for this community, the
premiere issue during the next decade particularly as it
relates to our environment and our quality of life,
however we characterize that.
We, as we all know, have been through one of the
most severe recessionary times since the great depression
in 1929. This community however has continued to grow at
rate in excess of five percent. Ail of you who have not
read I would encourage you to read this month's Florida
Trend, that confirms the fact that Collier County, in
particular, will continue to grow at an explosive rate
during the next decade.
The population projections are what they are in
their long range plan. We're talking about a half a
million people living in the low lying coastal community
with some very environmentally sensitive issues. It
concerns me. I don't have the answer to the challenge
that we face. I can just assure you that as one member
of the Board of County Commissioners I will continue to
listen to your concerns as expressed, not only as
representatives of the environmental community but as
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well as those who are here championing the private
property rights, another very important hallmark of our
society.
so, I think this has been a very worthwhile
experience. I'd like to extend my appreciation to the
chair for providing the leadership to bring this together
in this type of a forum and I expect that we will have
these types of workshops, not only focused on
environmental issues but I think we need to get out and
get a little bit better sense of some of the other
special interest groups so that we can begin to try to
build that consensus that's going to make this community
work.
I think we all want it to be, not only during our
lifetimes but for those people who will, in fact, succeed
us here. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commission Matthews.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: Thank you, Chairman. I too
want to thank each and every one of you for expending
your time to come to listen to this tonight.
Much of what I heard tonight I've heard before.
Some of it is new, some of it has, some of the
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information has caused a connection between the parts and
parcels that I've heard before.
As for where we might go into the future, we all,
citizens as well as the Board, need to work together on
that. I have a high interest in the build out study.
I'm terribly interested in how 20 percent of the land
mass is going to support a half million people. I'm also
interested in getting the work shop put together so that
we can view the State and Federal regulations in
permitting and ownership compared to what Collier County
might be able to do to strengthen it where it needs to be
strengthened.
Primarily, in my mind, it is relationships. We
have relationships going on here between the environment
and development and the economy in growth. Somehow, we
need to find a way to balance these so that all of them
function effectively and none of them are deteriorated.
That's going to be neat trick but we have to try.
Again, thank you for being here tonight and
Commission Saunders, thanks for spear heading this.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: First of all, I'd like to
apologize in advance because I may ramble here for just a
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moment. I have a tendency to do that when I start taking
a lot of notes.
Bernie Yokel said something very early on in his
comments that I think it's obvious, perhaps, but maybe
not so obvious. He said we're really dealing with, not a
scientific process but political process. It's
interesting to hear that and it does, in my mind anyway,
ring a bell. It's very close in connection to what
Doctor John Fitch said when he said, if we don't plan we
will wind up where we are heading.
I think that's a very insightful comment. I think
it,s very consistent with what Commissioner Volpe has
said in terms of the importance for long range planning.
Another thing I think came out of this meeting is
the possibility that we can actually acquire
environmentally sensitive land and make that a positive
economic decision.
Doctor Fitch said that, and I don't know where
these speakers came from but I will quote Doctor Fitch
for a moment anyway, that the cost for maintaining public
lands 11 cents per dollar of the tax value.
If it's farm land it's costs 20 or 30 cents per dollar.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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If it's urban area it costs a 1.25 per dollar of the tax
value which means from tax standpoint it can make sense
but I also think that the comments of the speakers about
the economy of Collier County, ecotourism, the fishing
industry, the hotel industries. All of those industries
that are dependent on the environment also proved it can
be an economic decision to purchase land.
I think we have to temper that with some other
comments, I was particularly taken by the comments of Hr.
Sleeth and Mr. McTague, in terms of what is government
doing to these private property owners.
We're not only protecting the environment, not only
protecting the gopher tortoises and the birds, but we're
dealing with human beings so we need to be fair with
those people.
I agree one hundred percent if the government is
going to designate the land to be acquired, that the
timetable, and this is a suggestion that Mr. Sleeth
suggested, that we have a timetable for that. We say to
the property owners, here's the reason why he want to buy
your lands. Here's the time period in which we're going
to do it. Here's a pool of money that we have available
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for that. So, you're not left hanging year after year,
wondering what's going to happen.
I don't think it's an impossible dream to be able
to designate the ecosystems that are significant and need
protecting and preserving and then to determine how to
funnel those, keeping in mind the importance of being
fair to people that are affected by it.
So, I think the that the two messages for me this
evening that are of great significance, the economic
importance, the value land acquisition, but all the
necessity to be fair to the people affected by that.
I want to say that this particular meeting, I
think, was very heavy on information imparted to the
county commission. There were a lot of speakers who put
things in a very good perspective, as far as I'm
concerned. Commissioner Matthews said there's a lot of
things that she's heard before, she indicated that
perhaps it helped to tie things together a little bit. I
think that perspective is very important for the county
commission.
I think this meeting has been, in my opinion, one
of the best informational meetings that we've had in a
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
12
134
long time.
I want to congratulate our staff; Mr. Dorrill, Mr.
Cuyler, Mr. Lorenz, Mr. Stallings, and I'm leaving out
some, thank you, and the people that came to speak, the
slides and all of those, presentations, Bernie Yokel.
The presentations were excellent and I am encouraged that
we need to have a subsequent environmental meeting where
perhaps we can start talking about the policies, the
programs, the things that we need to do to get to work
and to protect the environment to make sure that we don't
wind up where we are heading at the moment.
So, with that, unless there's some other comments
from the county commission, I want to thank you. We
will, I'm sure, do this again and we will have an agenda
that does have programs and policies for our
consideration. Thank you very much and this meeting is
adjourned.
(Meeting adjourned at 9:20 p.m.)
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
LP. ¸
135
STATE OF FLORIDA ) ,
COUNTY OF COLLIER )
I, Jacquelyn D. McMiller, Deputy Official Court
Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at
Large, do hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings were
taken before me at the date and place as stated in the caption
hereto on Page I hereof; that the foregoing computer-assisted
transcription, consisting of pages numbered 2 through 134,
inclusive, is a true record of my Stenograph notes taken at
said proceedings.
Dated this 24th day of May, 1993.
ll,~:~,, ".~ue.,~..-:,*u.~ II
, Off ;ll,
,tar~/ Pub~lic
Sl:ate of Florida at Large
My commission expires: 4/16/97
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962