BCC Minutes 10/13/2009 R
October 13, 2009
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, October 13, 2009
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board( s) of such
special district as has been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Donna Fiala
Fred Coyle
Jim Coletta
Frank Halas
Tom Henning
ALSO PRESENT:
Leo E. Ochs, Jr., County Manager
Michael Sheffield, Assistant County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Dwight E. Brock, Clerk of Courts
Sue Filson, BCC Executive Manager
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COLLIER COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
and
COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY BOARD (CRAB)
AGENDA
October 13, 2009
9:00 AM
Donna Fiala, BCC Chairman Commissioner, District 1; CRAB Vice Chairman
Fred W. Coyle, BCC Vice-Chairman Commissioner, District 4
Jim Coletta, BCC Commissioner, District 5; CRAB Chairman
Frank Halas, BCC Commissioner, District 2
Tom Henning, BCC Commissioner, District 3
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER WITH THE
COUNTY MANAGER PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA
ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE
UP TO THREE (3) MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE
CHAIRMAN.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53, AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES
(INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE
BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
REQUESTS TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT ON
THIS AGENDA MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING WITH EXPLANATION
TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF
THE MEETING AND WILL BE HEARD UNDER "PUBLIC PETITIONS."
PUBLIC PETITIONS ARE LIMITED TO THE PRESENTER, WITH A
MAXIMUM TIME OF TEN MINUTES.
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October 13, 2009
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION OF'
CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY
FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301 EAST
TAMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 252-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMP AIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M.
1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of today's regular, consent and summary agenda as amended (Ex
Parte Disclosure provided by Commission members for consent and
summary agenda.)
B. September 10, 2009 - BCC/Budget Hearing
C. September 15, 2009 - BCC/Regular Meeting
3. SERVICE AWARDS: (EMPLOYEE AND ADVISORY BOARD MEl\'IBERS)
4. PROCLAMATIONS
A. Proclamation designating October 21 through October 31, 2009 as Red
Ribbon Week. To be accepted by Major Scott L. Salley, Corrections Chief,
Collier County Sheriff's Office; Marla Ramsey, Collier County Public
Services Administrator and Ken Baginski, Prevention Coordinator for Drug
Free Collier.
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October 13, 2009
B. Proclamation designating October 30, 2009 as the tenth anniversary of the
Red Walk in Collier County. To be accepted by Karey Stewart, Principal,
Lely Elementary School.
C. Proclamation recognizing United Way of Collier County Agency for their
outstanding contributions to the community and wishing them yet another
year of great success as they kick off their 2009/2010 season. To be accepted
by Ernie Bretzmann, Executive Director, United Way of Collier County.
5. PRESENTATIONS
6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
A. This item was continued from the September 29. 2009 BCC meetine:.
Public petition request by Mark Teaters to discuss non-financial support of a
new program called "Golden Gate Estates as a World Class Rural
Community" .
B. Public petition request by Duane Billington to discuss the Fire/Rescue/EMS
Surtax.
C. Public petition request by Michele Antonia to discuss change to Collier
County's Animal Control Ordinances to permit TNR Program
(Trap/Neuter/Return).
Item 7 and 8 to be heard no sooner than 1:00 D.m.. unless otherwise noted.
7. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
A. This item continued from the September 29. 2009 BCC Meetine:. This
item reauires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte disclosure
be provided bv Commission members. CUR-PL2009-44 SR 846 Land
Trust, represented by R. Bruce Anderson of Roetzel and Andress LPA; and
Margaret Perry, AICP, of Wilson Miller, Inc., requesting a Conditional Use
Re-review (CUR) of the property commonly referred to as Jones Mine. The
conditional use (CU-2004-AR-6904) was approved on September 25,2007
and in accordance with condition #3, the Conditional Use approval shall be
reviewed by staff and brought back to the BZA on the first anniversary of
approval and again one year after the first anniversary review. The subject
property is located at 16000 Immokalee Road, Sections 35 & 36, Township
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October 13, 2009
47 South, Range 27 East; and Sections 1 & 2, Township 48 South, Range 27
East, Collier County, Florida.
8. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. This item reauires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided bv Commission members. Petition: PUDZ-2008-
AR-12773, Collier Rattlesnake Inc., represented by D. Wayne Arnold,
AICP, ofQ. Grady Minor Inc. and Rich Yovanovich, of Coleman,
Yovanovich & Koester, P.A., is requesting a PUD Rezone from Rural
Agricultural (A) to Mixed-Use Planned Unit Development (MPUD) to be
known as the Good Turn Center MPUD. The MPUD proposes a maximum
of 100,000 square feet of commercial land uses and/or a variety of skilled
nursing care facilities uses with a maximum of 200 units on 9.5 acres. The
subject property is located on the east side of Collier Boulevard,
approximately 660 feet north of Rattlesnake Hammock Road Section 14,
Township 50 South and Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida. (CTS)
9. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
A. Appointment of member to the Black Affairs Advisory Board.
B. Appointment of members to the Hispanic Affairs Advisory Board.
C. Appointment of member to the Immokalee Beautification Advisory
Committee.
D. Appointment of member to the Clam Bay Advisory Committee.
10. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
A. Recommendation to review and approve the proposed Collier County 2010
State Legislative Priorities. (Debbie Wight, Assistant to the County
Manager)
B. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners (Board) approve
Change Order 1 to Contract # 08-5122 with Post, Buckley, Schuh &
Jernigan at a cost of$I,303,397.38 to implement Phase 2 of the Watershed
Management Plans required by the Growth Management Plan. (Mac
Hatcher, Sr. Environmental Specialist, Engineering & Environmental
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October 13, 2009
Services Dept., CDES)
C. To report to the Board of County Commissioners (Board) on the status of the
Rental Registration late fee rebate program that was initiated at the direction
of the Board and to request that the Board of County Commissioners provide
guidance to the County Manager or his designee affirming staff's
recommendation to eliminate the Rental Registration program and in doing
so direct staff to amend the Property Maintenance Ordinance to eliminate the
Rental Registration Program as set forth in Section 22-264 of the Collier
County Code of Laws and Ordinances and as established by Section Seven
of Ordinance 04-58, as amended. (Joe Schmitt, Community Development
Administrator)
D. Recommendation to approve a budget amendment appropriating
$6,131,486.28 of carry forward for open purchase orders for operating
budget funds. (John Yonkosky, Director, Management and Budget Office)
11. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
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16. CONSENT AGENDA - All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the Board, that item(s) will
be removed from the Consent Agenda and considered separately.
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A. COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT & ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES
1) Recommendation to approve an Encroachment Agreement for Lot 12,
Candlewood.
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October 13, 2009
2) This item reauires that ex parte disclosure be provided by
Commission Members. Should a hearine: be held on this item~ all
participants are reauired to be sworn in. This is a recommendation
to approve for recording the final plat of Marbella Lakes, Unit: One,
approval of the standard form Construction and Maintenance
Agreement and approval of the amount of the performance security.
3) This item reauires that ex parte disclosure be provided by
Commission Members. Should a hearine: be held on this item. all
participants are reauired to be sworn in. This is a recommendation
to approve for recording the final plat of Wing South Airpark
Extension, approval of the standard form Construction and
Maintenance Agreement and approval of the amount of the
performance security.
4) Recommendation to approve Releases relating to two (2) Orders of
the Special Magistrate against properties owned by Roberto Bollt,
Trustee, Orange Tree Association.
5) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the water utility
facility for Hooters of Florida.
B. TRANSPORTATION SERVICES
1) Recommendation to approve the purchase of2.73 acres of
unimproved property which is required for the construction of a
stormwater detention and treatment pond for Phase II of the
Vanderbilt Beach Road Extension Project. Project No. 60168, Phase II
(Fiscal Impact: $68,700.00).
2) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approves
the Supplemental Agreement for the Sale of Fill with Ave Malia
Development, LLLP and authorizes the Chairman to sign the
document. Project #60044.
3) Recommendation to approve selection ofPBS&J under Invitation to
Negotiate (ITN) #07-3947 Professional Construction Engineering and
Inspection (CEI) Services SR 84 (Radio Road to CR 951), and award
a contract for Project No. 60073 in the amount of $1 ,363,917 with
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October 13, 2009
reimbursement from the Florida Department of Transportation.
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES
1) Recommendation to approve Amendment Two to the Franchise
Agreement between Collier County and Waste Management Inc., of
Florida, for Solid Waste, Recyclable Materials, and Yard Trash
Collection Services to provide for administrative changes, and
Amendment Two to the Franchise Agreement between Collier County
and Choice Environmental Services of Collier, Inc., to provide for
administrative changes and to update the Agreement to align billing
and rates which meet Federal Emergency Management Agency debris
removal guidelines for equipment and labor reimbursements; and, to
provide for best weighing practices for accurate measuring and
monitoring.
2) Recommendation that the Board terminate the contract with Douglas
N. Higgins, Inc., Bid #08-5078 Master Pump Station 302
Rehabilitation for convenience.
D. PUBLIC SERVICES
1) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approves,
and authorizes the Chairman to sign, a contract amendment for a
Disaster Recovery Initiative (DRI) subrecipient agreement between
Immokalee Helping Our People in Emergencies, Inc. (IHOPE) and
Collier County. This contract amendment will update the current
project work schedule and define methods of payment.
2) Recommend that the Board of County Commissioners approves and
authorizes the County Manager or his designee to execute a Vv' ork
Order Addition #1 to Work Order 45-108308 with Coastal Planning &
Engineering for the Physical Monitoring of the South County Beaches
under County/Naples Physical Monitoring Project (No. 90536.1) in
the amount of $65,511.36 on a time & material not-to-exceed basis.
The net contractual value of services will total a not to exceed amount
of$227,635.
3) Recommendation to approve Naples Wholesale Bait as a sole source
supplier of live bait for resale at Caxambas Park, Port of the Islands
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October 13, 2009
Marina, Goodland Boating Park, and Cocohatchee River Park Marina
with an estimated Fiscal Year 2010 expenditure of approximately
$207,000, and approve a seven day payment schedule.
4) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approves
and authorizes the Chairman to sign a subrecipient agreement with
Collier County Hunger and Homeless Coalition (CCHHC) providing
for a $102,155 Housing and Urban Development (HUD) Continuum
of Care (CoC) grant to support the Homeless Management
Information System (HMIS).
5) Recommendation to support the Parks and Recreation Department in
seeking national accreditation as a valid and proper public purpose
and adopt a resolution authorizing the expenditure of budgeted funds
to host the Accreditation Commission not to exceed $4,150.
6) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approves,
and authorizes staff to develop and advertise, an ordinance
establishing policies, procedures and standard forms to be used by the
Board of County Commissioners when selling and conveying real
property acquired under the Neighborhood Stabilization Program or
another State or Federal grant program.
7) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approve
and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached Interlocal Agreement
which provides for services and education via multi-county
agricultural Extension Agents of the University of Florida Institute of
Food and Agricultural Sciences Extension and authorize $27,386.23
as Collier County's proportionate share of this Agreement.
E. ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES
1) Recommendation to award Bid #09-5253 Purchase and Installation of
Floor Covering to Wayne Wiles Floorcoverings, Inc., Acousti
Engineering Co. ofFL., and Cianos Tile and Marble for floor
. .
covermg serVICes.
2) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign a
modification of Contract #08-5009 with Sire Technologies in the
amount of$189,575 using existing SAP capital project funds for the
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October 13, 2009
purpose of extending the County's Electronic Content Management
(ECM) system for the implementation of an Agenda Automation
application.
3) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners (BCC)
direct staff to credit all surplus sales net revenues from the
Information Technology (IT Fund 505) inventory to that fund.
4) Recommendation to award Bid #09-5254 and contracts for Grounds
Maintenance of Collier County Government Facilities to Hannula
Landscaping & Irrigation, Inc. as primary, and Florida Land
Maintenance, Inc. d/b/a Commercial Land Maintenance as secondary
for the estimated annual amount of $393,366.
5) Award Bid #09-5191R Court Reporting Services to Gregory Court
Reporting Service, Inc., for estimated annual expenditure of
$100,000.00.
6) Report and Ratify Staff-Approved Change Orders and Changes to
Work Orders to Board-Approved Contracts.
7) Recommendation to award Bid #09-5260, Janitorial Services to ABM
Janitorial Services-Southeast, LLC in the amount of $1 ,383,053.94 to
provide janitorial services to County owned and operated facilities.
8) Recommendation to obtain approval to enter into a License
Agreement with Kmart Corporation on behalf of the Health
Department for the use of vacant space for the HINl vaccination
campaign and to approve a Budget Amendment at an estimated cost
of $50,000.
F. COUNTY MANAGER
1) Recommendation to accept an awarded Volunteer Fire Assistance
Matching (50/50) Grant from the Florida Division of Forestry for the
purchase of VHF radios and approval of necessary budget
amendments.
2) Recommendation to recognize and appropriate insurance proceeds in
the amount of $197,726.00 and to approve a Budget Amendment to
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October 13, 2009
fund the replacement of a damaged ambulance for the Emergency
Medical Services Department in the amount of $199,816.00.
3) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approve
the Agreement for Management Services with The Pelican Bay
Foundation, Inc. in the amount of $103,262.
4) Recommendation to adopt a resolution approving amendments
(appropriating grants, donations, contributions or insurance proceeds)
to the Fiscal Year 2009-10 Adopted Budget.
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY
REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
1) Recommendation that the Bayshore Gateway Triangle Community
Redevelopment Agency (CRA) direct staff to draft a resolution for
BCC approval to designate the property located at 4315 Bayshore
Drive and the three adjacent parcels owned by the CRA as a
Brownfields Area, and to direct staff to ensure public hearings are
conducted in accordance with Florida Statutes in order to achieve
Brownfields Area designation.
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
1) Commissioner Halas requests Board approval for reimbursement
regarding attendance at a function serving a valid public purpose.
Attended the 27th Annual Freedom Fund Dinner and Awards
Ceremony and Celebration of the 100th Anniversary of the NAACP
on Saturday, October 3, 2009, at the Naples Hilton. $65.00 to be paid
from Commissioner Halas' travel budget.
I. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
1) Miscellaneous items to file for record with action as directed.
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1) To obtain board approval for disbursements for the period of
September 19,2009 through September 25,2009 and for submission
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October 13, 2009
into the official records of the board.
2) To obtain board approval for disbursements for the period of
September 29,2009 through October 2,2009 and for submission into
the official records of the Board.
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1) Authorize the making of an Offer of Judgment to Respondent, C & T
Properties Unlimited, for Parcel Nos. 126FEE and 126TCE in the
amount of $437,975 in the lawsuit styled Collier County, Florida v.
Alexander G. Christou, et aI., Case No. 07-4923-CA (Santa Barbara
Boulevard Extension Project No. 60091) (Fiscal Impact $53,175).
2) Recommendation to approve a Partial Stipulated Final Judgment in
the amount of $90,000 for Parcel 124 in the lawsuit styled Collier
County v. William Pilger, et aI., Case No. 06-1125-CA (County Barn
Road Project Number 60101). (Fiscal Impact $47,170)
3) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners considers
a request made by the Collier County Emergency Medical Services
Policy Advisory Board to revise the terms of the advisory board
members as established by Resolution No. 2009-37.
17. SUMMARY AGENDA - THIS SECTION IS FOR ADVERTISED PUBLIC
HEARINGS AND MUST MEET THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA: 1) A
RECOMMENDA TION FOR APPROVAL FROM STAFF; 2) UNANIMOUS
RECOMMENDA TION FOR APPROVAL BY THE COLLIER COUNTY
PLANNING COMMISSION OR OTHER AUTHORIZING AGENCIES OF
ALL MEMBERS PRESENT AND VOTING; 3) NO WRITTEN OR ORAL
OBJECTIONS TO THE ITEM RECEIVED BY STAFF, THE COLLIER
COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION, OTHER AUTHORIZING
AGENCIES OR THE BOARD, PRIOR TO THE COMMENCEMENT OF
THE BCC MEETING ON WHICH THE ITEMS ARE SCHEDULED TO BE
HEARD; AND 4) NO INDIVIDUALS ARE REGISTERED TO SPEAK IN
OPPOSITION TO THE ITEM. FOR THOSE ITEMS, WHICH ARE QUASI-
JUDICIAL IN NATURE, ALL PARTICIPANTS MUST BE SWORN IN.
A. This item reauires that ex parte disclosure be provided by Commission
Members. should a hearinl! be held on this item all participants are
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October 13, 2009
reauired to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve Petition V AC-
PL2009-651, to disclaim, renounce and vacate the County's and the Public's
interest in a drainage easement over Tract C02, as designated, and according
to the Plat thereof known as Silver Lakes, Phase Two-F, a subdivision as
recorded in Plat Book 33, Pages 37 & 38 of the Public Records of Collier
County, Florida, situated in Section 10& 15, Township 51 South, Range 26
East, Collier County, Florida, and being more specifically described in
Exhibit A.
B. This item reauires that ex parte disclosure be provided by Commission
Members~ should a hearinl! be held on this item all participants are
reauired to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve Petition V AC-
PL2009-570, to disclaim, renounce and vacate the County's and the Public's
interest in a 5-foot wide Utility Easement along the southwesterly line of
Site #57, Pelican Bay Unit Ten, according to the Plat thereof as recorded in
Plat Book 15, Pages 64 through 67, inclusive, of the Public Records of
Collier County, Florida, situated partly in Section 33, Township 48 South,
Range 25 East and partly in Section 4, Township 49 South, Range 25 East,
Collier County, Florida, and being more specifically described in Exhibit A.
C. This item reauires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided by Commission members. CU-2009-AR-14231
Peace Lutheran Church of Naples, Inc., represented by Margaret Perry,
AICP of Wilson Miller, Inc., and R. Bruce Anderson of Roetzel & Andress,
LP A, request a conditional use for a church, child care center, and private
school in the Rural Agriculture (A) zoning district pursuant to subsection
2.03.01.A.l.c. of the LDC. The subject property is located at 9824
Immokalee Road, in Section 25, Township 48 South, Range 26 East, Collier
County, Florida. (CTS)
D. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners adopts an
Ordinance amending Ordinance No. 2004-03, the Collier County Airport
Authority Ordinance, to provide for the appointment of an alternate member.
E. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners adopts an
Ordinance amending Ordinance No. 91-65, as amended, relating to the
Affordable Housing Advisory Committee, so as to remove the requirement
for Committee review of all rezoning petitions.
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October 13, 2009
F. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners adopts an
Ordinance amending Ordinance No. 75-16, as amended, relating to the
conduct of meetings of the Board of County Commissioners, to modify the
procedure for calling a meeting to order in the absence of the Chaimlan and
Vice Chairman.
G. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners adopts an
Ordinance amending Section Five, Penalties, of Ordinance 2008-22, the
Collier County Intersection Safety Ordinance, in order to establish a tiered
civil fine structure for initial and subsequent violations.
H. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners adopts an
Ordinance amending Ordinance No. 1975-16, as amended, relating to the
procedure for reconsideration of matters by the Board of County
Commissioners.
I. Recommendation to adopt a resolution approving amendments
(appropriating carry forward, transfers and supplemental revenue) to the
Fiscal Year 2009-10 Adopted Budget.
J. This item reauires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided by Commission members. Recommendation to
approve a resolution of the Board of County Commissioners of Collier
County, Florida, which designates the Close-Out of twenty (20) adopted
Planned Unit Developments (PUDs) which have fully completed
development pursuant to their development orders constructing to the
authorized density and/or intensity and have been found by county staff to
be compliant with their specific developer commitments.
18. ADJOURN
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD'S AGENDA SHOULD
BE MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER'S OFFICE AT 252-8383.
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October 13, 2009
October 13, 2009
MR. OCHS: Ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats.
Madam Chair, you have a live mike.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you so much. Well, good
morning, everyone. How are you this morning? I hope all is well.
We are meeting today at the Board of County Commissioners'
meeting, and this is October 13th.
I ask that you-all stand with me, and we're going to hear Deacon
Don Healey from St. Ann Catholic Church lead us in our invocation.
MR. HEALEY: Let me please begin as I begin all my personal
prayers. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy
Spirit, amen, and allow me to give personal praise and thanks to Iny
Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Blessed are you Lord, God of Mercy, who gave us the great
commandment of charity and love for one another. Send down your
blessing on these, your servants, who generously devote themselves to
helping others. When they are called on in need, let them faithfully
serve you by serving their neighbor.
The love of God has gathered us into one. Let us fear and love
the Lord God and love each other from the depth of our heart;
therefore, when we are together, let us take heed not to be set in
division of minds. Let there be an end to bitterness and quarrels, an
end of strife, and in our midst, be the Lord, our God, in the company
with the blessed. May we see your face in glory, Lord, our god, pure
and unbounded joy forever and ever, amen.
And through the power vested in me by the Catholic Church, I
bless you-all in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,
amen.
Thank you all for having me.
I have to mention, Mr. Halas, that I happened to have a -- had
had a good friend by the name of Frank Halas who worked for the
same company that I did in Chicago in the late '50s. His brother
happened to own the Chicago Bears.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No relation.
MR. HEALEY: And I happen to play left guard for them for a
number of years, as a matter of fact.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Wow, congratulations.
MR. HEALEY: Well, no, no. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
And with that, I ask all of you to please remain standing, put your
hand over your heart and with me say the Pledge of Allegiance.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Well, good morning, County Manager; good morning, County
Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: Good morning.
MR.OCHS: Good morning, Madam Chair and Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: County Manager, will you lead us
through the changes, please?
Item #2A
TODA Y'S REGULAR, CONSENT AND SUMMARY AGENDA
AS AMENDED - APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED W/CHANGES
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am. These are the agenda changes for the
Board of County Commissioners' meeting for October 13,2009.
First item, withdraw Item 16C2. It's a recommendation that the
board terminate the contract with Douglas N. Higgins Inc., bid number
08-5078, Master Pump Station 302 Rehabilitation for convenience,
and that withdrawal is at staffs request.
Next item is a withdrawal of Item 16E4, which is a
recommendation to award bid 09-5254 and contracts for grounds
maintenance of Collier County Government facilities to Hannula
Landscaping and Irrigation, Inc., as primary; and Florida Land
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October 13, 2009
Maintenance, Inc., doing business as Commercial Land Maintenance,
as second for the estimated annual amount $393,366. That is at staffs
request as well.
Next item is a request for a continuance. It's to continue Item
17A to the October 27,2009 Board of County Commission meeting.
This item requires ex parte disclosure be provided by commission
members. Should a hearing be held on the item, participants are
required to be sworn in.
It's a recommendation to approve petition V AC-PL2009-651, to
disclaim, renounce and vacate the county's and public's interest in a
drainage easement over tract C02, as designed, and according to the
plat thereof known as Silver Lakes, Phase Two-F, a subdivision as
recorded in Plat Book 33, Pages 37 and 38 of the public records of
Collier County, Florida, situated in Section 10 and 15, Township 51,
Range 26 east, Collier County, Florida, and being more specifically
described, and this is at county attorney's request.
Next item is to move Item 17G to 8B. It's a recommendation that
the Board of County Commissioners adopts an ordinance amending
Section 5 penalties of ordinance 2008-22, the Collier County
Intersection Safety Ordinance in order to establish a tiered civil fine
structure for initial and subsequent violations. That item is being
moved at both Commissioner Halas and Commissioner Fiala's request.
The last item, Madam Chair, on the change list is Item 1 7 J, and
this is a note for the record that this item was advertised to close out
20 PUDs; however, Whistler's Cove PUD has been withdrawn, and
the closeout is now for 19 PUDs.
Those are all the changes I have, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, County Manager Ochs.
MR. OCHS: You're welcome.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: No changes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, very good.
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October 13, 2009
Commissioners, do you have any changes to the agenda,
additions, or any ex parte to declare on the summary or consent
agenda? We'll start with you Commissioner Halas -- or Commissioner
Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Madam Chair, I have no further
changes to the agenda.
With respect to ex parte disclosure, I have disclosure on Item
17C of the summary agenda. I have received the Planning
Commission's staff report only, and I have reviewed that.
That concludes my ex parte disclosure.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. Good morning, Chair.
I have no changes on today's agenda, and as far as ex parte on the
consent agenda, I don't have any items that -- for ex parte.
On the summary agenda, the only item that I have is on 1 7B --
excuse me -- 17C. That's in regard to a Peace Lutheran Church of
Naples, and I've just had correspondence on that, and I've also talked
with staff on this.
Other than that, I have no other ex parte on either the consent or
the summary agenda.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. I think I'll leave it on the
consent. And the only correspondence that I have is 17C, the
Planning Commission's agenda item. Without that, I wouldn't have,
but I have that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's all I have.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you very much.
Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. Good morning, Madam
Page 5
October 13, 2009
Chair.
I have nothing to change as far as the agenda goes. And as far as
declarations, 17C, I discussed it with the petitioner and talked to staff
about it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
And I have no changes or additions on the agenda, and my only
ex parte is on 17C, and I've received correspondence which I have in
my folders. So I thank you very much.
And with that, may I have a motion to approve the agenda?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Motion to approve today's agenda.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: As amended?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: As amended.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion by Commissioner
Halas and a second by Commissioner Henning.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Page 6
Agenda Changes
Board of County Commissioners Meeting
October 13, 2009
Withdraw Item 16C2: Recommendation that the Board terminate the contract with Douglas N. Higgins,
Inc., Bid #08-5078 Master Pump Station 302 Rehabilitation for convenience. (Staffs request.)
Withdraw Item 16E4: Recommendation to award Bid #09-5254 and contracts for Grounds Maintenance
of Collier County Government Facilities to Hannula Landscaping & Irrigation, Inc., as primary, and Florida
Land Maintenance, Inc. d/b/a/ Commercial Land Maintenance as secondary for the estimated annual
amount of $393,366. (Staff's request.)
Continue Item 17A to the October 27.2009 BCC meetim!:: This item requires that ex parte disclosure be
provided by Commission members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants are required
to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve Petition VAC-PL2009-651, to disclaim, renounce and
vacate the County's and Public's interest in a drainage easement over Tract C02, as designed, and
according to the Plat thereof known as Silver Lakes, Phase Two-F, a subdivision as recorded in Plat Book
33, Pages 37 & 38 of the Public Records of Collier County, Florida, situated in Section 10 & 15, Township
51 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida, and being more specifically described in Exhibit A.
(County Attorney's request.)
Move Item 17G to 88: Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners adopts an Ordinance
amending Section Five, Penalties, of Ordinance 2008-22, the Collier County Intersection Safety
Ordinance, in order to establish a tiered civil fine structure for initial and subsequent violations.
(Commissioner Halas' and Commissioner Fiala's request.)
Item 17J: This item was advertised to close out 20 PUD's. However, Whistler's Cove PUD has been
withdrawn and the "Close Out" is now for 19. (Staff's request.)
10/30/2009 3:27 PM
October 13, 2009
Item #2B and #2C
MINUTES FROM SEPTEMBER 10, 2009 - BCC/BUDGET
HEARING AND SEPTEMBER 15, 2009 - BCC/REGULAR
MEETING - APPROVED AS PRESENTED
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Madam Chair, I make a motion
that we approve September the 10th, 2009, BBC regular meeting, and
September 15, 2009, BCC regular meeting. Let me correct that. My
motion is to approve September 10th budget hearing and the
September 15th BCC regular meeting.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do I hear a second?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Thank you. I have a second by
Commissioner Coyle.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
Items #4A thru #4C
PROCLAMATIONS: ONE MOTION WAS TAKEN TO ADOPT
ALL OF THE PROCLAMATIONS
Item #4A
Page 7
October 13, 2009
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING OCTOBER 21 THROUGH
OCTOBER 31, 2009 AS RED RIBBON WEEK. ACCEPTED BY
MAJOR SCOTT L. SALLEY, CORRECTIONS CHIEF, COLLIER
COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE; MARLA RAMSEY, COLLIER
COUNTY PUBLIC SERVICES ADMINISTRATOR AND KEN
BAGINSKI, PREVENTION COORDINATOR FOR DRUG FREE
COLLIER - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And we move on to proclamations.
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am. First proclamation is 4A.
Proclamation designating October 21 through October 31, 2009, as
Red Ribbon Week. To be accepted by Major Scott L. Salley,
corrections chief, Collier County Sheriffs Office; Marla Ramsey,
Collier County Public Services administrator; and Ken Baginski,
prevention coordinator for Drug Free Collier.
Come forward, please.
(Applause.)
MAJOR SALLEY: Can I say a few words?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You sure can, but this is a photo
opportunity of a lifetime.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: A picture for posterity?
MAJOR SALLEY: I'm not used to being in such a friendly
environment.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Keep you organized here.
MAJOR SALLEY: I'll tell you. Well, good morning, again,
Madam Chair, Commissioners. It's always an honor to be here and
serve our community.
We met our representatives from Drug Free Collier, Ken
Baginski, the head of - serves on the staff; and Marla, who is the
vice-president of Drug Free Collier; and I'm very fortunate to serve as
the president of Drug Free Collier for the next two years, maybe three
years. You never know how these things go.
Page 8
October 13, 2009
But I do have a few words, if I may, to talk about Red Ribbon
Week. Red Ribbon Week actually began in the early 1980s to honor
DEA Agent Enrique "Kiki" Camarena who was slowly tortured and
finally murdered by drug dealers on the Mexican/United States border.
Based on the outrage by the citizens in the United States caused
by Agent Camarena's senseless death, red-colored ribbons were used
to remind everyone of the cost in human lives addiction, overdoses
and crime directly generated from elicit drugs.
F or the past 100 years, various types of narcotics and illegal
substances have been trafficked into our country and many other
countries located across the world. It's a global issue, as we all know.
Unfortunately, the demand for different types of illegal
substances by our society in general has not been deterred.
Education and awareness are the weapons of choice for slaying
this dragon. Invincibility and rationality for experimenting with
illegal substances needs immediate redirection.
Addiction to alcohol and/or substance is too common and is
found in all age groups. Young people, especially nine-, ten-, 11-,
12-year-olds are routinely faced with decisions that can separate them
from friends, peers, and family members.
No one ever plans to leave home one day and become addicted.
The process of addiction is similar to sea fog. It quietly rolls in, and
before you know it, you are lost.
Red Ribbon Week is not a celebration, but a time for reflection.
Remembering the disastrous impact on our children, our friends and
family members, is a significant part of Red Ribbon Week. Also DEA
Agent Enrique Camarena and those brave individuals who have gone
head to head with drug traffickers and criminals who prey on our
society.
Organizations like Drug Free Collier and other committed
organizations, places of worship, youth groups and mentoring
programs will not allow this epidemic to erode our community.
Page 9
October 13, 2009
Wear the red ribbon and remember Agent Enrique Camarena.
Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
Item #4B
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING OCTOBER 30, 2009 AS THE
TENTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE RED WALK IN COLLIER
COUNTY. ACCEPTED BY KAREY STEWART, PRINCIPAL,
LEL Y ELEMENTARY SCHOOL - ADOPTED
MR.OCHS: Madam Chair, your next item is 4B. It's a
proclamation designating October 30, 2009, as our 10th Anniversary
of the Red Walk in Collier County. Proclamation to be accepted by
Karey Stewart, principal, Lely Elementary School.
(Applause.)
MS. STEWART: Always nice to see you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: How are you? Nice to see you, too.
Karey, come stay over here so we can take a picture.
MS. STEWART: Thank you all very much.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Did you want to say a couple words?
MS. STEWART: I'll say a couple.
I want to thank Madam Chair and the commissioners for the --
excuse me -- for the honor of representing Red Walk through Red
Ribbon Week at Lely Elementary School. This is our 10th
Anniversary of Red Walk. And our organizer, facilitator Craig
Grusell (phonetic) is instrumental in Red Ribbon celebrations around
the county.
So as our children walk 100 million steps in those ten years, I
want to again thank everyone for acknowledging our representation
and participation in Red Walk. Thank you.
(Applause.)
Page 10
October 13, 2009
Item #4C
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING UNITED WAY OF COLLIER
COUNTY AGENCY FOR THEIR OUTSTANDING
CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE COMMUNITY AND WISHING
THEM YET ANOTHER YEAR OF GREAT SUCCESS AS THEY
KICK OFF THEIR 2009/2010 SEASON. ACCEPTED BY ERNIE
BRETZMANN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, UNITED WAY OF
COLLIER COUNTY - ADOPTED
MR.OCHS: Madam Chair, Item 4C is a proclamation
recognizing United Way of Collier County Agency for their
outstanding contributions to the community and wishing them yet
another year of great success as they kick off their 2009/2010 season.
The proclamation will be accepted by Ernie Bretzmann, executive
director of United Way of Collier County.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think there's also some other
people involved in United Way, and why don't they all come up here
at the present time. I knew they were hiding out back there.
MR. OCHS: Squeeze in, squeeze in.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Anybody like to say a few words?
MR. BRETZMANN: Good morning. I'm Ernie Bretzmann with
the United Way of Collier County, and thank you so much for this
honor and recognition. We appreciate it greatly.
And thanks for all the representatives from the agencies and
fellow board members and other supporters of United Way for
showing up this morning in support of us.
I'd like to briefly share with you some of the collaborative efforts
that are ongoing between United Way of Collier County and Collier
Page 11
October 13,2009
County Government.
September 26th, we just had our fourth annual Walk for the Way
at the North Collier Regional Park. We were optimistically thinking
we'd get 1,500, maybe 2,000 people; 3,000 showed up.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Wow.
MR. BRETZMANN: Barry Williams and his staff are wonderful
hosts. And once again, Barry kept the rain away . You have some
really talented people working for the county. Yes, we had another
beautiful day. I t was a great event.
I think the key to the United Way of Collier County, our greatest
thing going for us, is our volunteers. We have a wonderful group of
volunteers. We've always had representation on our board of directors
from Collier County Government.
Jim DeLony currently is serving on our board as a representative.
A couple other recent board members in Collier County Government,
Supervisor of Elections, Jennifer Edwards and County Manager Leo
Ochs, each served six years on our board.
And we have another group of volunteers called the Budget
Review and Allocations Committee, which meets each spring. And
many, many people who work at the Collier County Government
served on that committee. Those are the folks that review all of the
agency requests for funds and then make the allocation
recommendations to our board of directors.
We're also now kicking off our community campaign, and we
greatly appreciate the fact that everyone who works for Collier County
Government is empowered to participate in our campaign and invest
in our community.
Finally, the banner looks great. Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR.OCHS: Madam Chair, if I can get a motion and second to
adopt the proclamations.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Motion to approve today's
Page 12
October 13, 2009
proclamations.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion by Commissioner
Halas and a second by Commissioner Coletta.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
MR. OCHS: Thank you, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you all for being here and giving
up your day to be here today and all that you do for all of those
agencies in Collier County.
Item #6A
PUBLIC PETITION BY MARK TEATERS TO DISCUSS NON-
FINANCIAL SUPPORT OF A NEW PROGRAM CALLED
"GOLDEN GATE ESTATES AS A WORLD CLASS RURAL
COMMUNITY" - DISCUSSED
MR.OCHS: Takes us to Item 6 on your agenda, Madam Chair,
which is public petitions. 6A, this item was continued from the
September 29, 2009, BCC meeting. It's a public petition request by
Mark Teaters to discuss nonfinancial support of a new program called
Golden Gate Estates, A World-Class Rural Community.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: This meeting is moving along a little bit
better, right, Mark?
MR. TEA TERS: I think so, yeah, for sure, thank you.
Page 13
October 13, 2009
Good morning, Madam Chair, Commissioners. For the record,
Mark Teaters, Advisory Council Member of the Homeowners
Association of Golden Gate Estates. Thanks for allowing me to speak
today. It's always an honor to be before you-all.
I'm here to report to you about the problems we have in Golden
Gate Estates and to promote a positive solution, a catalyst for change.
At the last BCC meeting, there was a discussion of the foreclosure
problems that are prevalent in the Estates. Couple that with empty
homes and the lack of infrastructure, as a community we have major
challenges.
I'm not going to rehash all of the information about the
foreclosures; however, it is important to note that there's been some
researchers that say that possibly we may not hit the bottom in the
Estates until 2013. If that's the case, it's a sad state of affairs.
With that discussion of these issues at our homeowner meetings
-- and just to let you know, there are many different areas in the
Estates. Ifwe look at -- if you look at the Estates as a large
subdivision, if we start towards the west from the Vineyards, we start
into Logan Woods, which is an upscale community who has really
changed from its roots as a Golden Gate Estates area, and now there's
a lot nicer homes, and it's really changed. It's evolved into its own
subcommunity, if you will.
Then we have the 951 area where Weber Woods is, and that's
pretty much the same thing. It's evolved as its own little
mini-community, and it's upscale as well.
Some areas have changed the names of the streets actually, and
sometimes we think that maybe they're trying to distance themselves
from the old moniker of Golden Gate Estates, some of those areas
along Santa Barbara and Logan.
To the east of Golden Gate Estates we have the future Big
Cypress, the city of Big Cypress, then we also have rural villages.
The balance of Golden Gate Estates is, like my wife says, is like the
Page 14
October 13, 2009
pickle in the middle, if you will, and there's a lot going on there.
The question that we had as a group was, do we stand by and
watch all these problems, or do we get involved and do something
about it? In front of you is the white paper that I wrote. Its sole
purpose is to help the community pull itself up by the bootstraps.
Now, we went through a vetting, a real thorough vetting process
with this. Elected officials, community leaders, large and small
business, advertised public meeting on Thursday, September 17th.
And, of course, I want to thank you for all the time that all of you have
spent with me, even Commissioner Halas on the phone during his time
off. And a special thanks to Commissioner Coletta for his guidance
through this process.
Collier County Sheriff Kevin Rambosk; Florida State
Representative Matt Hudson; Collier County Planning Commission
Chairman Mark Strain; Dr. Allen Weiss, president and CEO of Naples
Healthcare; Joe Pinion, CEO of Physicians Regional Healthcare
System; Collier County Public Schools member -- board member,
Richard Calabrese; and also I spoke with board chair, Pat Carroll; Bill
McDaniel, Corkscrew Island Association; Brian Gogan, Barron
Collier Companies and incoming chair of EDC; Big Corkscrew Fire
Chief Rita Greenberg; Marla Ramsey, administrator of public
services; Diane Flagg, Collier County Code Enforcement; Dr. Sparks
Lenny, professor of psychology at Edison State College; Nancy
Payton, Florida Wildlife Federation; Brad Cornell, Collier Audubon;
Tom Conrecode, Pat Utter, and Christian Spilker from Collier
Enterprises; Bios Elias (phonetic), East Country Stores; Pat Rossbach,
Gulf Coast Waterworks; Ron McLaughlin, Nose Boats; and John
Barlow from HOME.
We also can't forget many of the other friends and neighbors who
have been involved in this process as well.
How and where do we start on this program? I got news for you.
It already has. In tough times, great people rise to the occasion. We
Page 15
October 13, 2009
really needed to identify people who have an interest or are
knowledgeable about one or the other of the 21 subjects that are on
that sheet, and some of those subjects may not even make it through to
the end. Some of them may change. There may be some new subjects
added. As people get involved in this process, they may have new
ideas. We want to foster every one of them.
Then we have to formalize some committees. Some have already
started. I'll tell you about five of them. Communication and
technology. We have a young lady named Patty Monahan, who's our
secretary, who's already started work on a new type of
communication. She's working with different types of social
networking to come up with ways for folks in the Estates to
communicate, our own little network, if you will.
We're also working on some nontraditional means to get folks out
to help, and I'll tell you about that in a minute.
Conservation. There's already a committee in place that's already
had meetings working on conservation and preservation in the Estates.
No real details yet, except we did get Nancy Payton and Brad
Cornell, David Farmer. There was a -- there was a bunch of people at
the meeting so far, and they have some great ideas. Again, no details
yet. I think they don't want to say anything until they get some things
in concrete.
Education. Collier County Public School Board Chair Pat
Carroll will include us in the district visioning, which is about to start.
Let's see here. Dr. Sparks Lenny with Edison College has
already provided us with two leadership students. They've already
done some great things. I think I included a couple of notes from
them. Not great spellers or grammar people, but nevertheless, they're
important.
Healthcare. The light's on in Eastern Collier. After my
conversation with Dr. Weiss from NCH, I'm starting to get telephone
calls from doctors who are very interested in what's going on out
Page 16
October 13, 2009
there. They're also -- the visibility of the hospital that's planned for
Big Cypress is coming up on the -- their radar screen.
A lot of those folks volunteer in the community. A lot of these
doctors, it's amazing, I've found out how they actually do volunteer
work.
Joe Pinion from Physicians Regional is going to put it in his
company newsletter and give it visibility. He's also challenged all of
his employees, whether they live in the Estates or not, to help us, to
get involved and to help.
Small business. East Country Store will soon hold a small
business coffee networking session to get that program started. There
are literally hundreds of small businesses, if not more than that, in
Golden Gate Estates.
We were thinking maybe we'd get a speaker to come out for that.
Maybe Commissioner Coletta, too. We're also looking for leaders
that are going to emerge from this group.
Now, let me tell you a little bit about small business in Golden
Gate. The Estates is a great small business incubator. In the future
more people will work from home, they'll dream up new ideas for
start-up businesses. This is a sustainable lifestyle that minimizes
transportation costs and impacts. And it's important because you can
have a legal small business or a cottage industry in Golden Gate as
long as you follow the rules and don't run afoul of the code
enforcement people.
Finally, what we have in the Estates is not just a symptom of a
national problem. It's a community problem. We believe that
together we can be a powerful catalyst for change. There's that
catalyst for change again. We also believe we can take some pressure
off of government and still get some of the infrastructure we sorely
need, like the fire station off of DeSoto Boulevard, like school bus
stops at the streets for all the kids, fire suppression, some of the other
things. And we can't get money for those things until we identify
Page 1 7
October 13, 2009
what they cost. Nobody's ever sat down at the East of951 meetings
that -- I was on that committee. We talked about how much it costs for
draw hydrants. They were $25,000 apiece, but nobody ever said what
it would cost to put draw hydrants the entire length of Golden Gate
Boulevard. If it was 40 of them, that's a million dollars. That's a place
to start. We don't have numbers. We don't really know now. Ifwe
needed to get grants for something, we don't have that information.
In our meetings, the discussions revolved around a lot of things.
Something important to know, this program isn't about me, our
homeowners association or any other group. It's about the future of
our community. If you've got an ego, leave it at the door.
Questions. Who can participate? Anyone who lives in the
platted area of Golden Gate Estates, and hopefully everyone that lives
in the platted area of Golden Gate Estates.
Is there a predetermined outcome or solution? No, absolutely not.
Are we going to relive or rewrite history? No, but hopefully we
can learn from it. The people in the community will help create the
vision for the future. That being said, this will all be helpful
information leading up to the Golden Gate Master Plan restudy, which
will be coming soon hopefully.
What do we need from the county? That's the loaded question.
One of the commissioners told me, I don't have millions of dollars to
give you. Right now we're not asking for any money. What we need
is your support, your advice, staff assistance, time, and possibly a
meeting place from time to time for some of these meetings.
But again, we appreciated the opportunity to present this to you
today, and we're open for comments or questions.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Mark, I read your white
paper, and it's really a wonderful work of art and tremendous
direction. The part I like about it most is that there's -- most of the
time when people come up with ideas like this, they already reached a
Page 18
October 13, 2009
predetermined conclusion where they want to lead everybody to. And
you haven't done that. That's the part I like the most about it.
This is something that we really don't have any idea where it's
going to end up except in the end we're going to try -- you're going to
try to reach the will of the people and make things better than they
were before. And in fact, you're covering every aspect of our living
out there from the conservation, the natural resources, the medical
issues, the businesses. It's all inclusive. It's a daunting task that you're
taking on.
I guess my question is, are you going to have some sort of
meeting in the near future to start sharing with the community the
information that you've already gathered to start getting the feedback
so that these things can start to be brought to some sort of completion?
MR. TEA TERS: Absolutely, absolutely. That's real important.
We want to try to get as much visibility and get as many people out as
we can. The first step, obviously, was to get it vetted through the
community and make sure that we got as much information as we
could, bring it to you folks, and now we're off to the races.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mark, you thanked us for
allowing you to speak today. That's your right. You have the right to
address your elected officials, the only ones that can make policy over
the people.
It's unclear what you're asking, but I guess my question for Leo
is, the Golden Gate Area Master Plan, when was that updated?
MR.OCHS: I'll have to call on Mr. Schmitt for that information.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I'm thinking maybe that's --
some of your petition has asked to readdress that?
MR. SCHMITT: For the record, Joe Schmitt, administrator of
community development, environmental services.
The Golden Gate Area Master Plan restudy was done, my
Page 19
'__"'__"""__"""''''''';;';'_'"_'_''W'''<''~_''''~.''_'' ,',,,. _" ..Co"
October 13, 2009
recollection, in the 2002/2003 time frame. Spent 18 months updating
that master plan. I recall vividly one of my planners, Glenn Heath,
who was involved in that.
We're going to be looking at it again. It could be a possibility,
based on this board's direction, as part of the forthcoming or upcoming
Evaluation and Appraisal Report where we do our seven-year review
of our GMP, and one of the items that was brought up in the scoping
as we began to look and focus as to what we're going to look at during
this EAR-based amendment cycle is look at the Golden Gate Area
Master Plan.
Now, that's a rather large undertaking. Depends on how you want
to limit scope of that review. But that would be the best time to do it,
the next appropriate time. We're going into the EAR. We have an
EAR report due to DCA 1 January 2011.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I guess, you know, a future
question is, what's broken in the master plan?
MR. SCHMITT: That is the question, yes. We would have to
know what's broken so we can look at it and address what needs to be
done during the review.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right. And maybe the two civic
associations could tell us their thoughts of what's broken, and then we
can decide whether we need to readdress the master plan.
MR. SCHMITT: And we will be doing that with the community
as we begin the scope, develop the scope of review for this Evaluation
and Appraisal Report. And Mark knows, Mike Bosi on my staff has
been involved in both the East of 951, and Mike will be working with
the residents out there as well as we look at what we need to do as part
of this upcoming year, Evaluation Appraisal Report.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Let me jump in and say, when he was
talking about EAR report, he meant Evaluation and Appraisal Report,
just so that all makes sense. Thank you.
And Commissioner Coletta?
Page 20
October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. I don't think it's a
question of what's broken. It's what's missing, you know. And let's
face it, the master plan itself is an unbelievable task to assign any
committee to, and usually they're looking to redraft it to what that
particular citizenry needs at that time.
We're looking to carry it way past that point. And I know not
only this group, but the other group is also talking about similar efforts
out there. And it's just a matter of the citizens getting involved. And
whatever's important to them, they can get in front of the public,
they'll go forward on.
I'm excited, especially about the conservation element that you're
bringing into this. It's something the people have been talking about
for years.
And the business element. You know, I mean, the last time we
did the master plan and the time before that and the time before that,
we didn't have a coalition of business people that were really entering
their opinion into it, any way you can bring them together so that we
can start to hear from them when that time comes.
And so, it's not a question of what's broken; it's what's missing.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Another good thing we accomplish from
something like this is there seems to be a sense of unity. Working
together, you begin to get a sense of community, a sense of neighbor,
and neighbor working with neighbor, and that's -- that's one of those
effects that are ancillary but always so rewarding.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Absolutely correct. When Mr.
Teaters said time and time again, he doesn't own it. No one
association owns it. This is the property of the public. As he moves it
forward, it's going to involve everybody and his brother out there in
that. Hard to tell which direction it's going to take, but it will be
interesting.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Fun to watch. Thank you.
MR. TEATERS: Thank you very much.
Page 21
October 13,2009
Item #6B
PUBLIC PETITION BY DUANE BILLINGTON TO DISCUSS
THE FIRE/RESCUE/EMS SURTAX - PRESENTED
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, that takes us to Item 6B, which is a
public petition request by Duane Billington to discuss the fire rescue
EMS surtax.
MR. BILLINGTON: Good morning, Commissioners. I'm here
this morning to address the fire rescue surtax. I believe that the fire
rescue surtax provided for in Florida Statute 2009-182 is a net tax
increase that will be bad for the people of Collier County. It creates
additional overhead costs and provides no increase in services.
This particular tax will raise the general sales tax from 6 percent
to 7 percent countywide. That follows all the guidelines that the
current 6 percent surtax has attached to it.
On September 9, 2009, I petitioned the Board of County
Commissioners -- the commissioners for the Golden Gate Fire and
Rescue District to abandon their previous resolution adopted on
August 12th supporting the surtax. They voted 3-0 to reverse their
previous position to support and abandon the resolution.
They essentially abandoned it because they agreed pretty much
with what I presented. And you have a copy basically of what I
presented to them in my taxpayer viewpoint. It should be part of your
package.
The commissioners, when they voted 3-0 to reverse their support,
did express a concern about not wanting the taxpayers of the district to
be penalized by what we refer to as the coercion clause, and I will
quote from the law.
Municipalities, special fire control and rescue districts, and
contract service providers that do not enter into an interlocal
Page 22
October 13, 2009
agreement are not entitled to receive a portion of the first proceeds of
the surtax.
The commissioners didn't want the people in the Golden Gate
district to have to pay the extra tax and not receive any benefit from it.
On September 24, 2009, I shared my concerns with those present
at the Fire Service Steering Committee. Five districts have previously
passed resolution of -- resolutions of support for the surtax.
Representatives of some of the five and others agreed in part with my
position and all agreed that the coercion clause was a form of
blackmail.
Something that's interesting to note, there's no additional benefit
by receiving -- by having this tax applied. In fact, there's an additional
cost. The state's going to charge 3 percent to service this.
You-all will be allowed to charge up to 2 percent to do it. The
state only has to collect it, and the mechanism's already there, and then
they send it back to you. You have the burden of distributing it
amongst ten different entities.
Well, the way I'm seeing this, you only get two-thirds of what the
state does. You have ten times the difficulty on two-thirds of the
money, so that tells me that the state agrees that you're at least 15
times more efficient than state government.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: They're right.
MR. BILLINGTON: I've stated my reasons for objecting to the
surtax in my taxpayer's viewpoint, as I previously mentioned. And
what I'm essentially asking you to do is to adopt the position that
states the counties will allow a sufficient time frame for the districts
that do not come out in support of this surtax to join in with the others
so that they're not unfairly penalized.
I'm also asking that you notify the providers so that they're aware
that they don't have to be coerced into joining in a resolution that they
really don't agree with but they're afraid not to because they would not
benefit from the tax.
Page 23
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October 13, 2009
And in talking about this surtax, it's hard to do it without talking
about something that's going to be addressed later today and then in
tomorrow's legislative meeting, and that has to it with the fire districts
shell bill and funding. In that -- we're talking about an extra surtax
here, and we're going to give this benefit to the fire districts that in the
shell bill are asking for 15 exemptions from current law, six
exemptions from required referendum votes where they no longer
have to go to the people and ask the people what they think in order to
run their district however they please.
In that, there's also a portion where they want to have their own
medical director. We have a medical director, Dr. Tober, that is
running a world-class EMS service here in this county, and they want
to change that. They want a -- they want a total exemption from
current state law governing that so that they can hire somebody that
could be right out of medical school to work under the supervision of
a fire chief to make life-and-death decisions over the people being
served, and I think that's wrong, and they want the county still to run
the ambulance service so you-all have the benefit of having to go into
the general fund every year for ten, 11, $12 million to help support
that, and you-all know better than I can explain what all's involved
there.
This is wrong, you know. And the surtax thing is wrong. But if
we're going to have a surtax, let's not have it support a consolidation
that's not a consolidation, because they're talking about two different
entities, Panther Coast District and Paradise Coast District and Panther
Creek. That's not consolidation. We're just reshuffling the deck and
stacking a different stack here and a different stack there.
If we're going to have consolidation, something you may want to
consider, if we're going to do a surtax, it's going to raise somewhere
between 60 and $70 million. It costs about $90 million to operate the
emergency services fire and rescue in Collier County.
If we put something out on referendum vote at the next general
Page 24
October 13, 2009
election where all the people get to vote -- which is, you know, far
from the approach that the fire districts want to take -- but where all
the people would vote, you could probably end up with one
consolidated fire district with one ad valorem uniform assessment for
probably under half a mill along with the surtax, and you could have
your one district. We could still have the best medical EMS service in
the county.
And as something to think about, you might want to have a little
study done to see how feasible that is. We're having the general
election anyhow. It's just one more item on the ballot, and then it
gives the people a chance to be heard.
I thank you very much for this opportunity.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Mr. Billington, I would like to
commend you for your analysis. It is really very helpful to have a
citizen come here with such a clear description of the problem
accompanied with some recommendation solutions, so thank you very
much.
You're absolutely correct in your assessment that this is
something that ties in very closely to the proposed consolidation shell
bill that is, perhaps, going to be introduced to our state legislature this
next session.
And what I would like to suggest to the Board of County
Commissioners is that we take your comments and use them in our
discussion of that shell bill in our legislative priorities later today, and
based upon our conclusions, formulate a position that we will discuss
with legislators on Wednesday, tomorrow, and then I think we will
have addressed your issue by going through that process.
If it's necessary to have a scheduled public hearing, I would be
very happy to see this come back for a scheduled public hearing, if it
is necessary. But I would suggest that we can take care of it this
afternoon or later today in our discussions and tomorrow in our
Page 25
October 13, 2009
discussions with the legislators. And I'm sure you'll be here.
MR. BILLINGTON: Oh, yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: County Manager, the -- have
you had any discussion with the independent districts about a
proposed sales tax for their revenue source?
MR. OCHS: Not directly, sir. I've had some information come
my way from Mr. Summers and Mr. Page, who have attended Fire
Service Steering Committee meetings where this item's been discussed
over the last several months, so I've seen the PowerPoint presentation
to that group.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is it -- is it pro tax or is it just
informational?
MR. OCHS: I would says it's informational, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Yeah, I -- you know, I
have witnessed local government increasing their budget through
taxation over the last few years, and I'm just not positive that that's --
we need more taxes to serve the people, unless it's a replacement. And
even then, sales tax is a regressive tax that gets the residents who live
here full time.
And property tax -- and this came out back when we were
looking to do transportation sales tax, it was pointed out that you can't
deduct that on your income tax. You can property tax, but you can't
sales tax. So it's regressive to the full-time residents, and I'm not sure
if the independent districts really realize that.
MR.OCHS: Well, sir, my understanding of this bill, which was
passed in the last session of the legislative session, is a direct offset.
The revenues received from the sales surtax would be a one-to-one
offset against ad valorem millage levied in the fire rescue districts.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I guess you need to really
__ study of, what have they lost, because what they have been taxing --
Page 26
October 13, 2009
no different than county government -- is the increased assessed
values, and we know that was falsely ramped up by investors.
So what is the true value for services that government needs to
provide the citizens? I don't know the answer to that, but I know it
isn't the valuation of what it is today and it's going to be tomorrow or
nor was it in 2005 when you had 20 percent increases of property
assessment valuation. Just doesn't make sense. Maybe throw all that
stuff out and start back in the '90s when you had something that was
more reasonable. I just don't know. But it isn't -- it's not fair to the
working people in Collier County. That's for sure.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: CommissionerHalas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes, Mr. Billington. I think your
presentation was outstanding, and I would invite you to meet
tomorrow here when we meet with our legislative delegation in
regards to this.
MR. BILLINGTON: I plan on being here.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I'd just like to clarify one
thing, because there's too much misunderstanding about this. The
government hasn't increased its budget over the past few years. The
government has -- Collier County Government has trimmed $250
million from our total budget over the past three years. So there hasn't
been an increase in the budget.
The other point is that the millage rate for 2010, although I didn't
vote for the increased millage rate -- but let's give it a historical
perspective. The millage rate for 2010 is almost exactly what the
millage rate was in 1999.
So there hasn't been a catastrophe here as far as increasing
millage rates in Collier County. The catastrophe has occurred as a
result of wild fluctuations in property valuations, which, again, is not
the fault of Collier County Government, nor is it the fault of the
Page 27
October 13, 2009
property appraiser.
So it is something we've got to work through together, and I think
we can do more. But I don't want to give people the impression that
Collier County Government has been increasing our budget when you
are having difficulties because we have not been increasing our
budget. We've been trimming it by $250,000 (sic) just in the last --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Million.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- $250 million just in the last three
years.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle, would you ever
consider writing a guest commentary and sending it into the
newspapers, and just possibly they'll publish it? Because I think that
__ people aren't going to read it in a column or anything, but maybe a
guest commentary they will. And it's a good educational piece, I
would think.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I would consider doing it, except
for the fact that maybe the best way to do it is in my newsletter. I will
get it out in my newsletter in November.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Mr. Billington.
MR. BILLINGTON: Just one question so I'm clear on what's
been decided. Is it the intent to notify the districts so that if -- they
don't have to feel coerced, and that they would be given an
opportunity if a sixth fire district decided to put a resolution and force
this to referendum vote?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It would be my recommendation
that we get the input of the county attorney so that we know how to
proceed legally with respect to the statute. And I would like to have
that discussion at the time this after- -- or later today when we're
talking about the shell bill, because the shell bill provides certain
taxing authorities to the fire districts, which -- up to 3.75 mills, and
Page 28
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October 13, 2009
that's as much as Collier County Government is assessing for our
entire operation.
And taken to the logical conclusion, if they can tax up to 3.75
mills and they all consolidate and they're applying that millage rate
across the entire tax base of Collier County, they will be generating as
much, perhaps more, money than Collier County Government will be
generating. I'm not sure that's necessary.
And so what I'm suggesting is, you're talking about a tax. The
shell bill is talking about a tax authority. And this -- later today when
we talk about that, we'll try to wind all that stuff together and then get
some input from the county attorney, and then tomorrow we'll talk
with our legislators, we'll get more information, and then I would
guess we could form an opinion.
I'm just -- I'm reluctant to make a motion about an opinion right
now, but I would like to motion this process that I'm talking about that
will consider it with the shell bill today.
MR. BILLINGTON: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Another thing that concerns me with tax,
a sales tax or whatever tax, as we send the money up to Tallahassee --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yep.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- then they take their percentage. And
being that we're a donor county, we don't get our money back anyway,
so we would actually be taxing ourselves to support another few
counties in the State of Florida. And I think that that's also very --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
MR. BILLINGTON: Thank you.
Item #6C
PUBLIC PETITION BY MICHELE ANTONIA TO DISCUSS
CHANGE TO COLLIER COUNTY'S ANIMAL CONTROL
ORDINANCES TO PERMIT TNR PROGRAM
Page 29
October 13, 2009
(TRAP/NEUTER/RETURN) - MOTION FOR STAFF TO RETURN
WITH AN UPDATE ON CURRENT DAS ADOPTION
PROGRAM, ANALYSIS OF TNR PROGRAM AND TO BRING
ITEM BACK FOR DISCUSSION AT A FUTURE BOARD
MEETING - APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, that takes us to Item 6C, a public
petition request from Michelle Antonia, to discuss a change to the
Collier County's animal control ordinances to Permit
Trap-Neuter-and-Return Program.
MS. ANTONIA: Good morning, Madam Commissioner,
Commissioners, and guests. For the record, my name is Michele
Antonia.
I represent the Collier Community Cat Coalition, Incorporated.
The Collier Community Cat Coalition is petitioning the Board of
County Commissioners to change the animal control ordinances to
allow for the humane and effective control of community cats through
a Trap-Neuter-Return Program.
Community cats include loosely-owned free-roaming cats, stray
cats, which are considered socialized, lost or abandoned cats and feral
cats which are unsocialized free-roaming cats. In this presentation, I
will refer to Trap-Neuter-Return as TNR.
These cats who have lost contact with humans or who were born
unsocialized to humans tend to congregate and form what are
commonly referred to as colonies.
Community cat colonies cause concerns throughout the United
States, and Collier County is no exception.
Estimates vary considerably, and some calculations report that
there may be as many as 25,000 to 40,000 community cats in Collier
County .
Cat colonies can be found on undeveloped lots, behind busy
commercial plazas, in residential communities, in downtown Naples,
Page 30
October 13, 2009
in Golden Gate Estates, in Immokalee, and in Everglades City. Left
unchecked, female cats in these colonies can give birth three times a
year. One intact male cat and two intact female cats can turn into 30
or 40 cats in about a 12-month period.
Please keep in mind that these cats do not create the problem.
People did by not sterilizing their animals and allowing them to roam
freely. TNR programs humanely and effectively reduce the number of
cats in a colony and prevent an increase in the cat population. TNR
also helps prevent new cat colonies from being formed.
Here's how it works. All adoptable adult cats and any kittens are
removed from the colony by volunteer caretakers, thus there is an
immediate reduction in the number of cats.
Cats unsocialized to humans, the unadoptable cats, are humanely
trapped, sterilized, vaccinated against rabies, ear tipped or notched for
identification, and returned to the location where they were found.
Caretakers maintain the colony by providing food and water 365
days a year as well as ensuring that any healthcare needs of the cats
are met. Caretakers carefully and continually monitor the colony so
that any new cats that might appear are either removed, if adoptable,
or trapped, sterilized, vaccinated, ear-tipped or notched, and returned
if not adoptable.
The mortality rate of community kittens is over 50 percent. TNR
prevents the birth of these kittens that are marked for death. TNR
reduces roaming, fighting, and infectious diseases. Community cats
under the watchful eye of the TNR program are healthier.
Changing the animal control ordinances to include TNR costs the
county and Domestic Animal Services nothing. On a national level, in
the past, programs for controlling community cat colonies consisted of
lethal methods like poisoning, infecting with disease, hunting, and
trapping and then euthanizing at animal shelters. Not only are these
methods cruel and inhumane, they are not effective in reducing
community cat populations over time.
Page 31
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October 13, 2009
In addition, for control policies to be effective, public sentiment
must be considered. Groups and individual citizens will gladly step
forward to volunteer a ton of financial resources to TNR community
cats. No one will come out to trap the cats if the cats are going to be
killed. Through an effective TNR program, the only humane
alternative to cat overpopulation, the number of community cats is
drastically reduced.
With no new kittens being born and older cats passing on, over
time the colonies dwindle to nothing. And I have some statistics from
the State of Florida.
One statistic comes from the Journal of American Veterinary
Medical Association. And this is the impact of TNR on 132 colonies
in the State of Florida. When caretakers first started feeding the cats,
there were 9230 cats. A year later, after a TNR program was instated,
there were 678 cats. The average size of the colonies went from one
to 89, down to zero to 42, and that's only after one year.
Another statistic I have is from the Journal of Applied Animal
Welfare Science, and this is from Orange County. The animal control
in Orange County partnered with the TNR group, and the TNR group
handles cat complaints and trapping, and the shelter does the
sterilization, the rabies shots, and ear tipping of the cats. And they did
a study, and in one six-block area, there was a 50 percent decline in
cat nuisance complaints after the TNR program was started.
Numerous nonprofit groups and citizens concerned about the
welfare of community cats have been conducting their own TNR
programs throughout Collier County for many years with impressive
results, and I'm one of those people.
And in 1998 I started working with a cat colony that was south of
Seagate. There were 164 cats in that colony. Those cats came from
four unaltered cats that someone did not want and they just put
outside. In two years' time it evolved to 164 cats. Since the year
2000, no new kittens have been born in that colony, and there are only
Page 32
October 13, 2009
two cats left at this time.
Another colony that I work with is on sensitive Collier land, and
we are removing that colony. Last week we removed our 53rd cat,
and there is one cat left to trap, and there will be no more cats there.
This is a success rate, and you can see that TNR works.
The Collier Community Cat Coalition was established to bring
the groups and citizens together to form a more cohesive effort to
reduce the cat overpopulation through TNR and education. The
coalition hopes to partner with Domestic Animal Services to serve as a
liaison between the animals groups and individual citizens who are cat
colony caretakers and DAS.
The coalition sees this partnership as an asset to Collier County,
one that will help the county save resources both in manpower and
money. In a time of budget cutbacks and reductions in the workforce,
every penny counts. Various sources estimate that to send an officer
to trap a cat, to intake the cat, to shelter the cat for five days, and to
euthanize and dispose of the cat costs between 150 and $200. For a
caretaker to TNR a cat costs the county nothing.
Equally, if not more important, in addition to saving money, we
will be saving animals' lives. Changing the ordinances to permit TNR
or encourage an organized effort and broaden the scope of existing
activities result in increased sterilizations and vaccinations, fewer
community cats, and a reduction in the number of cat colonies, with
the ultimate goal being no cat colonies.
A data collection system can even be established to prove the
effectiveness of the program. This, in turn, should reduce the number
of nuisance cat complaints coming to DAS, freeing animal control
officers to attend to more serious matters. A TNR program should
minimize the number of community cat intakes at DAS, therefore
decreasing the number of cat euthanasias. Fewer euthanasias
ameliorates the impact of compassion, fatigue, and stress on DAS
employees.
Page 33
October 13, 2009
TNR programs already exist in 40 states as well as the District of
Columbia and Puerto Rico. In Florida, TNR programs are in Orange,
Hillsborough, Brevard, Polk, Monroe, and St. John's Counties, to
name a few. Even Lee County, our neighbor, instituted a TNR
program in March of this year.
Changing the ordinances to include a Trap- N euter- Return
Program in Collier County is a win-win endeavor for all. TNR is the
most economical and compassionate solution to curbing cat
overpopulation and eliminating cat colonies while, at the same time,
helping the cats and the community co-exist peacefully. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
MS. ANTONIA: Do you have any questions?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No, ma'am. Nobody has any questions.
I'm sorry. Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I have a suggestion. We've asked
our animal services people to come back to us and to discuss a change
in their charter, their goal. Can we do this at the same time we have
that discussion? That way we can address this recommendation with
the other issue about adoption.
MR.OCHS: Commissioner or Madam Chair, if I may, I don't
believe the Board of Commissioners gave us that direction to come
back with a change in the charter. But we certainly would welcome
an opportunity to come back and report on this issue. And Ms.
Townsend has been working with this group right along on some
changes that we could make to the ordinance to accommodate this, if
the board --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I can -- I can distinctly recall
Commissioner Henning making the suggestion, and I thought
everybody agreed, that it was ridiculous that -- that we would reiuse,
as a government body that serves the public, to change a charter in
accordance with the public petition, and we -- he suggested we bring it
back and maybe give some direction to the county manager about
Page 34
October 13, 2009
what to do with that, and I was certainly in agreement with that.
So if that was not your understanding, can we make that a motion
and bring it back and resolve these two issues at the same time?
MR.OCHS: If that's what a majority of the board would like to
do, we can certainly do that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I mean, I clarified that. You
know, anytime somebody makes -- the issue was, is about the mission
statement. And the issue is, if it is a policy governing the citizens in
Collier County, nobody has the right to do that except for the
policymakers. We can't delegate our authority to that. So the mission
statement, to me, sounded like it was a policy on how we were going
to regulate --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: The adoption.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct. And that needs to be
done by us. So, yeah. I don't care what department it is.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Two nods.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What's that?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You've got two nods.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So, in other words, your motion is -- or
would you -- would you state your motion?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I would make a motion that
this item be brought back along with the adoption issue that we
previously have discussed by our department of animal services with
recommendations about how we could proceed, and let the board
make decisions and provide guidance about where we go with it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's a second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, very good.
Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Page 35
October 13,2009
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, 5-0.
Item #9 A
RESOLUTION 2009-244: APPOINTING TONICIA D. MORGAN
TO THE BLACK AFFAIRS ADVISORY BOARD - ADOPTED
MR.OCHS: Ma'am, that takes us to Item 9, Board of County
Commissioners. First item is 9 A.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's a good day in Collier
County .
MR.OCHS: Yes, sir. Appointment of member to the Black
Affairs Advisory Board.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Motion to approve the committee's
recommendation.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: 5-0.
Page 36
October 13, 2009
Item #9B
RESOLUTION 2009-245: APPOINTING ILEANA M. RAMOS,
MARIO ORTIZ AND ALEJANDRO BALAN TO THE HISPANIC
AFFAIRS ADVISORY BOARD - ADOPTED
MR. OCHS: 9B is appointment of members to the Hispanic
Affairs Advisory Board.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Recommend we accept the
committee recommendations of Alejandro Bellan, Mario Ortiz, and
Illeana Ramos.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: 5-0.
Item #9C
RESOLUTION 2009-246: RE-APPOINTING CHERRYLE
THOMAS TO THE IMMOKALEE BEAUTIFICATION
ADVISORY COMMITTEE - ADOPTED
MR.OCHS: 9C, appointment of member to the Immokalee
Beautification Advisory Committee.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve the
Page 37
October 13, 2009
committee's recommendation for Cherylle Thomas.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
Item #9D
RESOLUTION 2009-247: APPOINTING SUSAN O'BRIEN T()
THE CLAM BAY ADVISORY COMMITTEE
MR. OCHS: 9D is an appointment of member to the Clam Bay
Advisory Committee.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Motion to approve Susan O'Brien.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
MR. OCHS: Thank you, ma'am.
Item #10A
Page 38
October 13, 2009
REVIEW OF THE PROPOSED COLLIER COUNTY 2010 STATE
LEGISLATIVE PRIORITIES
MR.OCHS: That takes us now to Item 10 in your agenda. First
item is lOA, and it's a recommendation to review and approve the
proposed Collier County 2010 state legislative priorities. Ms. Debbie
Wight, Assistant to the County Manager, will present.
MS. WIGHT: Good morning, Commissioners, Debbie Wight,
Assistant to the County Manager.
You have before you the executive summary with the list of
proposed 2010 state legislative priorities. And if you would like, we
could go down the list, and -- as we did last year, and you could give
me an idea of if you approve or disprove the item, you can ask
questions, and if I -- I will answer them. If not, we have staff here to
address specific questions that I may not be able to answer.
Some of the items are continuing and some of them, the revenue
enhancement items that you removed last year in recognition of some
fiscally challenging times, we brought them back for your
consideration this year just for you to consider again.
So if you want to direct me how we shall proceed.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Why don't we hear from
commissioners about what they're concerned about, and then we can
just respond to them on an exception basis.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. I would like to go over
each one of them, but first I want to start out with, for the last three
years we said no -- no policies on increasing taxes. So I want to make
a motion that we remove all requests for increased taxes. And
furthermore in my motion is not to put it back on our agenda unless
it's directed by the BCC.
Let me just say the reason why; I think the commissioners
received some emails about a real estate transfer fee. And I'm being
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October 13, 2009
facetious on some. I think we received a ton of them. It wasn't
directed by the Board of Commissioners, and it's just unnecessary to
burden the public and the Board of Commissioners on something that
is not going to pass anyways, so that's my motion.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. I have a question. There's
an item on the agenda that relates to us trying to get a portion of the
toll fees on Alligator Alley to support EMS and fire coverage for that
area. That is a revenue enhancement, but I don't think it is an increase
in taxes.
Commissioner Henning, would that item be eliminated by your
motion, or would you be willing to let us proceed with trying to get a
share of those tolls to cover our fire and EMS costs out there?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, I'd be willing to discuss
that item separately. But the other is transfer fees and just a bunch of
other taxation. It's just not going to go anywhere.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Let me see if I can -- may I finish
at least this portion, Madam Chair, before I turn the gavel back over to
you?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Let me see if I can identify the
ones you're specifically concerned about, and maybe we can have a
vote on those and just get them either off or on the agenda.
Unfunded mandates would not -- our resistance to unfunded
mandates would not fall within the category that you're talking about,
I do not believe.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right. You want me to go over
them?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, if you wouldn't mind. That
would be helpful.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Now, these are ones that you want to take
off, right?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct. The -- the
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October 13,2009
transportation -- well, the transportation trust fund is to leave it, don't
rate it.
MS. WIGHT: I think they start on Page 5, Commissioner, the
revenue enhancements.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is that on agenda Page 5?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Page 4. Bottom of the page it starts
with dot coms.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, the dot coms. That's what
I was --
MS. WIGHT: Did you want to leave the dot com? Last year the
dot com we left.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No.
MS. WIGHT: No, okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's a tax increase, didn't go
anywhere. And the gas tax indexing, real estate transfer fees, and a
partial year assessment. Those are all -- I don't know what else is
hidden here, but those are the ones that really jump out.
So that would be my motion, not to bring those back in the future
unless guided by the Board of Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So Item 8 in its entirety would be
eliminated this particular fiscal year?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What page are you on?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's page 4, bottom of Page 4. Item
8, revenue enhancements, the four items listed there, Page 4 and Page
5.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, correct.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Is there a second to the
motion? I'll second it.
Any discussion? All in favor --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, no, no.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: There is some discussion. We've got--
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Oh, I'm sorry, okay.
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V' -_..,.,......~..."'>.,
October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- Commissioner Halas, we've got
Commissioner Coletta, and then Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Then why don't you take
the gavel back over since you can see the lights better than I can.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. I think that -- first of all, dot
com, I think that would benefit the state in regards to them trying to
balance the budget instead of raiding some of the trust funds, and I
think that they tried to get through that -- through the legislature last
year.
Supporting gas tax indexing, that has a big effect on us as far as
road maintenance. And as everybody should know, that we've went
through a process whereby we pretty much took out all of the
maintenance on our road group so that we can't get the added funds to
take care of all the infrastructure that we put in.
The real estate transfer fee, I think the reason that we looked at
that was, this may be one way to eliminate impact fees if we could
come up with a different revenue source that included everyone that
sold property. And maybe this is one way to address it so that you're
just getting away from impact fees.
The other year -- partial year assessment, I think it's just fair that
the people that move in this community pay their fair share right off
the bat, instead of getting a free ride for a portion of time. So that's
where I stand on these particular issues.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. And let me interrupt here and
say, we have two speakers for this item on the agenda, and from here
on in we will accept no more speakers as we move in. So -- well,
unless anybody wants to speak now, please fill out a slip; otherwise,
there won't be new ones. Okay. Very good.
Okay. We have Commissioner Coletta next.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, thank you. And I agree
with Commissioner Halas for a couple different reasons. One, the dot
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October 13, 2009
com. We're talking about revenue that people are using the Internet to
avoid paying a fair share, while those people that walk up to -- that
buy at the stores, that buy at the -- go up to the lobbies and pay for
their room up front or make a reservation through the hotel itself,
they're paying the fees that we put down some time ago. But we're
saying that the people that want to go through the Internet can avoid
the fees. Makes no sense in the world that we would create a special
exemption for the people using the Internet. You know, it's just a
matter of fairness.
I look at it this way here. The people that I represent are paying
X number of dollars in taxes. If they're carrying the load for somebody
else, then I'm really having a problem for it. In this case they are.
Supporting the gas tax indexing. I mean, we've talked about this
year after year after year. It's been one of our top priorities. That
money has been eroding as time goes by for various reasons. Most of
the fact that -- the fact that the people are driving less and the fact that
they're using less gallons in their driving because the cars are much
more fuel efficient, meanwhile the cost for doing business has gone
up.
We can't build the roads now, we have no revenue source out
there to speak of, and it just makes no sense not to be able to try to
capture that. And the people that are conservative, they'll be the ones
to be able to benefit from it.
The real estate transfer tax. I'm more than willing to discuss
possibilities about that. I'd like to know a little bit more, but that
would lower the impact fees, and we've got the building industry on us
for years now, and justly so in the fact that -- the way the whole thing
has been set up.
We have the business end of our community paying the largest
portion of taxes, and this would have a tendency to restore that
balance a little bit, give us something to be able to work with, to be
able to bring those fees back into alignment with something that
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October 13, 2009
would be more realistic.
And the partial year assessment. Why should somebody get a
free ride at the expense of all our residents out there, to be able to buy
a piece of property and not have to pay any taxes for the first six
months or so and be able to avoid it? If they miss it by one day, they
have to pay taxes for the year. It makes absolutely no sense.
Everybody should pay their fair share. I resent the fact that I might be
paying for somebody else's free ride.
That covers what I have to say.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And then I was next, and then we
have Commissioner Henning.
Regarding the dot com, I feel that tourism is such an important
part of our community, and this is a part that -- and people are not
helping to support that industry because they're booking on the
Internet, and I feel we should keep that. I think we -- this is something
that has -- people have been able to avoid, and I think that that's an
important part, so then the hotels have to carry the whole load, and I
don't think that that's right.
The gas tax indexing, we've supported this for years. I don't see
why we would stop now.
As far as real estate transfer fees, I have a different approach than
you fellows that just spoke, and that is, with the real estate, we have
our impact fees, and yes, they're high, but you -- what it does is keeps
our tax rate low. And now, if people want to buy, they can either buy
a brand new home, they will pay an impact fee, or they could buy a
home that's sitting on the market that we want to get off the market
that we want to start moving along, and I don't think -- I think it would
encourage people to buy those homes and get them off the -- off the
market and off of our roles if we don't have a transfer fee.
Not only that, but then it would probably help the commercial --
or rather the building industry because most of them can use some
type of improvements, if not a lot. And so I feel that that would be an
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October 13, 2009
important one to support, the -- or not support, and that's the real estate
transfer fee.
Partial year assessment, I agree with you guys again. I think that,
you know, just because you buy your house in January, so then you
don't have to pay for the whole -- for your tax. I don't think that's
right.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, you know, it's interesting
that my colleagues feel that we're losing out on sales tax and tourist
tax through people purchasing through the website, but our own
website encourages residents to purchase on the website, including
travel, which hopefully that will be removed.
Look, the reality is, you've got a Republican-controlled House
and Senate in Tallahassee, and Republicans feel that, you know, less
government and less taxes. So the chances are, of a new tax, it's just
not going to happen. And our legislation (sic) delegation, I feel, is not
going to take this issue on tomorrow.
So why don't we focus on things that we can get accomplished
instead of things that are, in my opinion, are a pie in the sky.
So that's the reason for my motion is -- besides the fact is,
doggone it, our residents are hurting. Why would you want more
money from them when we should really be asking for less? So that's
the reason for my motion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I am surprised that we're
losing revenue as a result of online booking of hotels in Collier
County. I can't believe that happens.
When I book in another state for a hotel and I use my credit card,
I might very well pay for the whole amount, but when I go to that
hotel and I stay there and I check out, there is a tax on my bill when I
check out there. And so I -- as a matter of fact, I believe the law
provides that any products delivered to you in the state are taxable.
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October 13, 2009
That's one of the -- many states, I'm sorry, many states. But the thing
that I don't quite understand is why the hotels don't collect that tax.
Jack, can you help us?
MR. WERT: Yes, sir, Commissioner. For the record, Jack Wert,
Tourism Director.
The -- if it's an online transaction and you're booking through
Hotels.com, let's say, you actually pay Hotels.com for that hotel room.
And let's say that hotel room costs you $100. And when you get to the
hotel and you check in and then you stay your stay and you check out,
you get a bill that -- or you may not get anything because it's already
prepaid. The hotel has had no part of that transaction to that point.
The next part of the transaction is the Hotels.com then sends $80
to the hotel because that was the net amount of their deal with the
hotel.
So the hotel tax, if it's paid by Hotels.com, not the hotel, but
Hotels.com, is paid on the $80, rather than the $100, which was the
full consideration. That's what the issue has been all along.
And the state statute and what Department of Revenue should be
enforcing is that the tax is due on the full consideration rather than
what their deal between the hotel and Hotels.com was. That's where
the loss comes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, that is not a tax problem.
That is a discounting problem with the agreement between the hotel
and Hotels.com. The hotel always has the option of saying, no, I'm
not going to give you a 20 percent discount on this.
MR. WERT: That's true.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That is a hotel problem. It's not a
taxing problem.
As a matter of fact, when I have done that, I will get whatever the
contract rate was through the company, maybe Hotels.com that I
booked it through, and that's what appears on my bill, and then there's
a credit for an equal amount of money, and then all of my extras are
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October 13, 2009
added into that, and I'm taxed on those two things, too, by the hotel.
So I don't understand that process. And I, quite frankly, can't
believe that the hotels are losing money for that reason, but that's a
different question.
The -- I just wanted to clarify that. I'm not convinced yet, but
nevertheless. I think everybody knows where they stand on it, so --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Now, we have three speakers.
Would you like to wait?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I just want to make a comment that
we can also go online and purchase products, and there's no state sales
tax included in that, and so that's part of the other dot com issue that
we have, that the state does not get any revenues from those -- that
you buy outside the state and you go online.
MS. WIGHT: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. Would you call the speakers,
Sue. We now have three speakers.
MS. FILSON : Yes, ma'am. Bill Poteet. He'll be followed by
Ellie Krier.
MR. POTEET: Good morning, Commissioners. My name is
Bill Poteet, and I'm here on behalf of the Naples Area Board of
Realtors, and we're speaking in opposition of the real estate transfer
tax. I guess that's no surprise to you.
The tax itself is -- I understand the problems with government,
that you're looking for revenue sources. I sit on one county
committee, and we -- it's a common discussion in the committee;
however, you know, what you're proposing is really ante-productive
for our community.
We are just now coming out of a recessionary period which was
stemmed by a collapse of the construction and the real estate industry.
And, you know, for us to go out there and put more roadblocks in
front of potential purchasers to eliminate the inventory that we have
out there -- the substantial inventory that we have out there. Right now
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October 13, 2009
there's over -- there's about 9,500 listings in MLS service that's
available for the community.
The tax itself is not inexpensive. You're looking at a 1 percent
tax on the sale of the house. The average house in Collier County is
between 435- to 450,000, so you're looking at a $4,500 tax that you
suddenly have to put on top of the transaction.
Now, obviously, if the sale's lower, you know, it goes down. But
even on the affordable housing issue, when you have someone going
in there to buy a $100,000 house, most of the folks that are trying to
get into that bracket, $1,000 is a deal killer, you know, make or break.
And I wouldn't understand how you would want to put any more
hurdles on the industry itself.
You know, we're the big leg on the three-legged stool of this
economy, and we're trying really to come back strong and do the right
things and the smart things. But when you have home ownership, you
get more than just owning a home. I mean, if you look statistically,
your crime is lower by people that own homes. People are more
responsible for the properties that own homes, and there's less
requirement of government to service them as it is for not
homeowners. So don't put any restrictions there.
This has nothing to do with the actual tax itself, but we were very
surprised that you did not recommend that the legislature put in more
moneys for home hardening for Collier County and the rest of the
state because if there's anything in the state that's been proven to help
mitigation on hurricane costs, et cetera, it's home hardening. And we
very, very much recommend that you do that. Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Ellie Krier. She'll be followed by Doug Fee.
MS. KRIER: Good morning, Madam Chairman, Commissioners.
Ellie Krier, the Government Affairs Director for the Board of Realtors.
I will not belabor Mr. Poteet's well point -- well-put points; however, I
want to suggest that you're in a unique position here.
Foreclosures are not slowing, and there is a chance that there will
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October 13, 2009
be another bubble passing through the system. There's a very gently
nurtured recovery coming, and it's coming because your code
enforcement department has created a positive climate for success,
because your neighborhood stabilization program is up and running,
acquiring those homes, getting ready to sell those homes, because
HOME, the nonprofit exists. You have a positive atmosphere for
nurturing a very fragile recovery, and we would ask that you not rock
the boat on this little baby that's starting to learn to walk again.
And then finally, I would tell you, in following up on Mr.
Poteet's comments, there's a new nonprofit called retrofit. You'll be
hearing from them soon. They're working on a five-county home
hardening effort, and I believe they may be speaking to you tomorrow
at the pre-legislative session as well in terms of what may be needed
legislatively to follow up on the very great success of the My Safe
Home project that was two legislative sessions ago. Thank you.
MS. FILSON: And your final speaker is Doug Fee.
MR. FEE: Good morning, Commissioners. For the record, I'm
Doug Fee. I'll be very brief as well.
I had read the legislative priorities, and one thing that stuck out
for me was the transfer fee on real estate.
And as you were speaking and wanted to pull some of the items,
I think I, myself, as a citizen got a better understanding of the
complexities that you're facing today, the economy, the economic
situation that we're in.
About four or five years ago this commission approved an
ordinance for a revenue commission, and I served on that committee.
And I think with what you're facing today and with the next two years,
you know, you're facing budget issues, I might make the suggestion to
resurrect that group. I know we're not always looking for more
government, but I think in this case you're faced with a lot of issues
that you may want more public input instead of less, and so I make
that suggestion.
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October 13, 2009
Thank you very much.
MS. FILSON: That's your final speaker.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And right now it's time for a ten-minute
break.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We've got a minute to vote.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No, I think we need to hear more about
this from Deb. Thank you. We'll see you here at 10:40.
(A brief recess was had.)
MR. OCHS: Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd please take your
seats.
Madam Chair, you have a live mike.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you very much, Leo.
Okay, Deb. You've heard from us and you've heard from our
speakers.
And now Commissioners, we have to make some decisions here.
Do you have anything to say? Did you want to hear from Keith, per
chance?
MS. WIGHT: He's okay with the --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. He likes sitting back there. I
would like that, too.
MS. WIGHT: I heard what you said about the revenue
enhancements, but could we get you to each vote? Could we go
through each of the four and get a vote on each of the four, and then
maybe go back and start at the beginning of the list of priorities;
would that be okay?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Would be, but I think you've got
a motion and a second on the floor.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, I'm sorry. Would you tell me your
motion again, please?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, the motion is not to --
remove the --
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October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Is to remove, not not to remove.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: To remove all the --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Numeral--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- requests for tax increases.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. That's the revenue enhancements
under Roman numeral eight?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The dot com -- yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And that's four items, correct?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: The second was by Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We've had discussion. We've
heard speakers.
All those in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's a three 3-2 vote. Okay.
MR. OCHS: Would you like to go through each one of those,
Madam Chair, and see if we can get some consensus?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah.
MR. OCHS: So the first of those four revenue enhancement
items was the dot com item.
MR. KLATZKOW: Motion to remove.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'm sorry?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to remove.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, second. There's a motion on the floor
and second to remove this particular one, dot com.
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October 13,2009
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: 3-2.
MR. OCHS: The next item on that list is the indexing of your
local option gas tax, that would be your fifth and sixth cent.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to remove.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to support.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second on the support.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second the one to remove.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. There's two motions at the very
same time. What do we do there?
MR. KLATZKOW: Madam Chair, you're the chairperson. Your
call.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Your discretion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I think I rolled off the first
syllable.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You rolled off the first syllable?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right. He was a little slow.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Then your motion is on the floor.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And I seconded.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And that's a second, and that is to
keep the gas tax indexing; is that correct?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: As we go forward.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: To approve the gas tax indexing as one of
our properties.
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October 13, 2009
Okay. So I have a motion on the floor, and that was by
Commissioner Coletta, and a second by Commissioner Halas.
All those in favor --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Oh, discussion?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Discussion. You know, we have
had this on the legislative agenda for years and nothing has ever
happened with it.
Can we at least go to the legislators tomorrow and ask them if
they will support this index? If they say no, we won't support it,
what's the point of having it on our list? See, that's -- you know, we've
got -- my overall point is going to be today in the discussion of all
these is that we've got a lot of things on here that never are going to
move anywhere, and I -- and consequently we don't get the legislators
to focus on things that are really important and that are likely to be
moved and something result from it.
So I would like for you to at least consider taking this to the
legislators tomorrow, asking them the question, will you support it? If
they say no, we drop it? I mean, why do we fight it?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, that's my whole point of,
why have this laundry list if your delegation is not going to support
putting it on there? Focus on what you can do and not dwell on what
you can't do. And I can tell you -- in fact, I will wager anyone of my
colleagues that none of these tax increases will be supported by our
delegation.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. And you keep referring
to this as tax increases. I see it as balancing the ledger book to where
it will help the average person out there, Commissioner Henning. So,
you know, it's all in the eyes of the beholder.
You want to try to enrich somebody that's already doing very
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well at the cost of the average citizen. In this case I think the best way
to do it is, the legislative body's going to do what they're going to do.
I mean, we have certain things on there where they're probably going
to say, well, you know, I really wouldn't want to see it on there, such
things as the rights of our ability to be able to make laws and rules to
be able to go forward, you know, our community rights, our rights as a
commission. Those types of things they would want -- not want to
probably hear either. There's many, many things in here that we have
to stand firm on, just as they do when they represent us before the
Congress of the United States. They have to go through the same
thing we're going through with them now, and it's all part of this long
process.
If you -- if you give in and you step back and you say, no, we're
not going to keep going forward on these issues, we're going to put
this aside, they'll never come up for discussion, we'll never be able to
influence an outcome down the road from where it is. These types of
decisions are made on compromise after compromise after
compromise. And if you don't have the ears of the legislators to go
into them because you support something or you don't support it and
being firm on it, you're never going to be able to enter into that
compromise down the road.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: One of the things that is of concern
to almost all of my fellow commissioners that I deal with in the
Florida Association of Counties -- and this is one of the primary things
-- is the support for gas tax indexing.
It was brought out earlier by Commissioner Coletta in regards to,
as the cars get more fuel efficient, the problem is that we're getting
shortchanged on the amount of money that it takes to keep our roads
up and -- but the miles don't decrease. The miles -- the mileage of
vehicles on the road increases.
And the end result is, the citizens are going to pay in the long
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October 13, 2009
run. You can pay me now or you can pay me later, because it takes
money to keep the roads up.
We've built an infrastructure of about $860,000,000 at least in
this county. And if we don't have the money to keep up the roads,
then we've defeated the purpose of building the infrastructure that we
have presently.
So I think that not only this county is looking at this, but all the
other 66 counties are looking at indexing of the gas tax. And we're
hoping that the legislature up there in Tallahassee understands the
concerns that all counties have in regards to keeping the infrastructure
up.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And I'd like to add also, I'd much rather
see gas tax indexing than start having to have tolls on every one of our
roads in the State of Florida. I'll tell you, that -- that's a worse tax than
we could ever deal with a gas tax indexing, and we already pay the
gas tax.
And Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I guess I have to respond
to Commissioner Coletta's comments about my feelings on whether
these are tax increases or resident enhancements.
You know, whether -- what my feelings are or what your feelings
are is immaterial. I guess it's what the residents' feelings are. And I'd
love for you to help me find a venue to ask the residents, do you feel
this is a tax increase or an enhancement of services? So, just a
challenge. You don't have to respond right now.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I don't mind responding
because it was my turn.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You were next anyway.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: But in any case, Commissioner
Henning, I do have the ear of the people I talk to out there. They
know what the problems in my rural district is. As you probably are
well aware, we've been raising hundreds of millions of dollars in
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October 13, 2009
impact fees for our roads over the years, and we've been taking care of
the eastern part of Collier County first, which we needed to because
that's where the bulk of our population is.
So we're at the point now, we're running out of money, we're
running out of impact fees, there's nothing left, and I still have a very
strong need for roads within my district, and I know I'm representing
the will of the people. And it's been proven many times when it came
forward for elections. That's when they have the ultimate ability to be
able to make changes. If they want roads, they're going to keep me in
office. If they don't want roads and they want to be able to have
another two pennies off their gas, they'll put somebody else in, and
then down the road they'll deal with the travel element.
What I'd like to do -- because we do have an audience that's
listening to this, even though our commissioners are very well versed
--I'd like to ask Norm Feder or Nick Casalanguida, either one of them
will come up front, and they are totally familiar with this subject, and I
know they're not going to be comfortable talking to a divided
commission on this, but all we need is the honest facts, Mr. Feder.
Where is the state and the local governments going to get their
revenue in the future?
MR. FEDER: I can speak obviously --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: For roads.
MR. FEDER: -- here locally what we have -- for the record,
Norman Feder, Transportation Administrator, I'm sorry.
What we have is the gas tax, which is not indexed. Collier was
one of the first to implement all of the local option gas tax.
The state indexed theirs in 1990 but never allowed for the local
option that required local passage to be indexed.
We have impact fees. They're down appreciably. We have the
question of the mobility fee out there. And then we have ad valorem,
and we know where that issue has been going with assessed values
and the like.
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October 13, 2009
So obviously funding sources beyond that aren't available to us.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. Focus on the gas tax
which is before us right now.
MR. FEDER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: This is a revenue stream. And
how do they divide that up? And has it been declining? Has it been
increasing as the years go by? Has this -- are we in a better position
than we were in the past?
MR. FEDER: The local option gas tax was traditionally bringing
in, like I say, about three or four years ago, about 24 million. That's
moved down to 22, 20; it's a little bit over 19 now. It's a stair step
down. So your actual collections are going down, and the buying
power of roads, when it's a pennies per gallon as opposed to price of
gasoline, which has gone up, or price of utilization of that gas tax for
improvements, which have also gone up over time.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. Now, if we're not ~rilling
to -- you know, we've been talking about lowering impact fees on
roads. There's a couple commissioners who have been looking into
that with the greatest of earnest, and it may come to be in the near
future. If we can't consider income tax -- the impact fees, if ad
valorem is a real issue -- and it is within this county. I mean, let's be
honest about it. The people that we work for, the voters, are the
persons that have all the homestead exemptions and they're the ones
that pay ad valorem, and they're always saying, find another way to
tax -- if we're not going to be able to go with an increase of sales tax,
other -- other than toll -- tolling the roads, what's left?
MR. FEDER: Other than that, the infrastructure surtax, which
requires a referendum -- remember the half-penny vote, which didn't
succeed -- other than that, I'm not aware of any real resource. There's
a utility franchise fee option that's been out there, not necessarily just
for transportation. So beyond that, none.
And the other point to be made, if your gas tax were indexed and
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October 13, 2009
your proceeds were greater, that reduces your impact fees because
they're a credit against your impact fees.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And what do you see for our
future as far as a revenue stream for roads, I mean, just the way
everything's coming together at this point in time?
MR. FEDER: An unsustainable funding scenario.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And we'll probably have been a
meltdown in -- somewheres like ten years away or 15 years away?
MR. FEDER: I won't call it a meltdown. What I will tell you is,
we don't want to get ourselves in a situation where we don't do
anything in capacity improvements and utilize all the capacity and
find where we were when I came here in 2000. At the same time, we
also have expanded the network. We have more maintenance
requirements. Current revenue stream is not supporting either of those
situations.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you, Mr. Feder.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So let's see. The motion on the
floor --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: To support.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- is to support the real estate transfer tax?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, no, no.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No, gas tax.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Gas, I'm sorry, thank you. Gas tax
indexing. Oh, I'm sorry. And the second by Commissioner Halas,
correct?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No way.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, that's 3-2.
MR.OCHS: Next is your real estate transfer tax proposal.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion not to support.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Comments? Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Don't do it.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I was expecting a different motion.
No, I think I'll leave that one alone right now with that motion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We could argue about it.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No, that's okay, I'm all right.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. I would hope that some of
these groups that are involved would sit down with me so that we
could work out a compromise. It's the same group that came before us
a week ago, or two weeks ago, used a lot of staff time, came up with a
resolution, and then the last minute came in here and says, we're not in
favor of any kind of resolution. We want to get rid of it.
So I would hope that we can sit down and figure out a
compromise whereby we can look at a portion of transfer fees so that
we can lighten up the impact of impact fees on other businesses here
in the county.
But obviously, it's, we don't want anything, we're not willing to
compromise, but I would hope that we can sit down at the table and
maybe talk about something of that nature.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, that was -- that's exactly
what we ought to do. If people are interested in this, we need to get
the people who are involved in the business, the real estate people and
the CBIA, because I think there's some common ground here. But
there's no point in us taking point on this, because anything we do is
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October 13, 2009
going to be interpreted as just a grab for more money. And so why
not let -- let the real estate industry and the building industry get
together and see if they can find a way that a real estate transfer tax
might be -- might be appropriate as long as there's an offset -- and I
believe there would be anyway in the way we calculate impact fees.
So lower impacting fees will, in fact, help the real estate industry.
So maybe a real estate transfer tax would be attractive in order to
lower impact fees which might help stimulate the real estate industry
and the building industry.
So I see the two working complementary on that. But let's get
the people who know what they're talking about to deal with that and
make a recommendation to us rather than us going out on a limb and
saying we support it without really properly analyzing the effects.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I've been asking the
question ever since this real estate transfer fee came up. And let's say
that I have a dozen kids and I buy a lot in Golden Gate Estates. The
real estate is transferred, I paid that fee, then I build a house on it and
put all those kids on it with all those cars, but there's no real estate
transfer fee.
So is it a new tax or is it capturing the impact of building that
house, putting those children in the school and all those cars?
You see what I mean? Nobody's been able to answer that
question. So if we can get that answered.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion on the floor not to
support the real estate transfer tax fee. The motion was made by
Commissioner Coletta, and it was seconded by Commissioner
Henning.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: 4-1. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Could -- would you be willing to
accept another motion dealing with that same issue?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And that is the thing that
Commissioner Halas and I have discussed, and Commissioner
Henning, that -- let's refer this issuing to the building industry and the
real estate industry to see if there's a way that a transfer fee and a
subsequent offset of impact fees would be appropriate and if it would
benefit both industries and let them advise us.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. That is a motion.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And a second by Commissioner Halas.
Any discussion? Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Just a clarification. That's a
letter by the chairman explaining the situation and ask --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Asking for their input and
recommendations.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Leo, would you put that together?
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion on the floor and a
second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
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October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: 5-0.
MR. OCHS: Then your last revenue enhancement proposal is
partial year assessment.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to support partial year
assessment.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion on the floor and a
second to support partial year assessment. Any conversation on that?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Discussion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Have we consulted with the
property appraiser about the operational impacts of doing this? How
do we do it? What is the impact on the Property Appraiser's Office?
Does he have the capability to do this? What controls need to be
established, you know? If we're going to support it, we need to
understand the ramifications because, otherwise, you're going to find
property appraisers throughout the state opposing it because they don't
have the capability of doing it. So have we taken that step?
MR.OCHS: No, sir, not to that level of detail. We've have some
preliminary discussions about what kind of value we're talking about,
but we haven't gotten into the operational impacts.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Don't you think before we ask our
legislators to put their necks on the line for legislation that we ought to
have all the details, that we ought to know how it can be implemented,
if, in fact, it can be implemented properly.
MR.OCHS: Yes, sir. We could consult with the property
appraiser or we could invite him tomorrow to your workshop if you'd
like him to address that as part of your discussion with the delegation.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I think that would be a good
solution, yes. Doesn't give him much time, but I would be willing to
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October 13, 2009
bet he has the answers.
MR.OCHS: We'll contact him today if that's that board's
pleasure, and ask him -- invite him specifically to come and address
that item tomorrow.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. I don't think that would be
an undo burden, just looking at it, because as soon as the property is
sold, I'm sure that information goes right to the property appraiser, and
I would think that that would be that much more of a problem,
because it's just nothing more than a bookkeeping problem to address
this issue. So -- but I'm willing to listen to what he has to say. But I'm
sure that as soon as the property changes hands, that that automatically
goes to the property appraiser, so he's already got that information.
All he's got to do is just put it in the queue.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, just briefly.
Debbie?
MS. WIGHT: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: This item is not new. It's been
before us how many years now, six, seven, eight?
MS. WIGHT: At least, several.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. At any point in time, do
you remember the property appraiser --
MS. WIGHT: 2007.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- coming forward and saying
this isn't doable?
MS. WIGHT: Not to my knowledge.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It will be good to have him here,
but it's not a case of, this is something brand new out of the
stratosphere that we're dropping out of the sky.
MS. WIGHT: It's not brand new. We've asked it several times.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It's been going for many more
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October 13, 2009
years than we've been sitting up here.
MS. WIGHT: I'm sure it causes some administrative work, but I
don't remember him saying that he was strongly opposed, but we can
ask and invite him to the legislative workshop.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's a wonderful idea.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You know what, I thought I remembered
him saying he was opposed.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We'll find out tomorrow.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, good.
Okay. I have a motion -- what is --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: To support.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- the motion again?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: To support --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Who--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- partial year assessment.
Myself, and then Frank was the second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. To support the partial year
assessment by Commissioner Coletta and seconded by Commissioner
Halas. And it's, also in the discussion, was to invite property appraiser
here tomorrow as we discuss it with our legislators.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, 3-2.
Okay. That takes care of Roman numeral eight. Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. I'm not too sure the order
you're going through, but I'd like to briefly be able to discuss Item
number 12.
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October 13,2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Deb?
MS. WIGHT: I was just going to say, would you like to go back
to the beginning or--
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah, let's just do that.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's what we need to do.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah.
MS. WIGHT: Number one in your list, Commissioners, is
library, support state aide to libraries and cooperatives like Southwest
Florida Library Network. This is a new addition, although it is also on
the Florida Association of Counties, and it does represent $200,000 to
Collier County Public Libraries. And it is -- and provides vital
funding to maintain and enhance level of service for library users.
Do you have any questions about this priority?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I have a question. We have quite a few
things here that we would like to give to our legislators and ask them
to support. Do we have any kind of a limit as to how many we
actually should be giving them, or do we give them this whole
plethora of items?
MR.OCHS: Ma'am, that's your discretion. I don't know that
there's any legal limit or policy limit. It's just a matter of how many
items the board -- and maybe you'll get a better feeling for that in
tomorrow's workshop in terms of what the delegation feels is a
manageable number --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR.OCHS: -- but there's no limit by policy or law that I'm
aware of.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Great.
MS. WIGHT: And some of them, Commissioner, if I may, like
home rule and unfunded mandates, are concepts that you can skip
over. They're just -- they're not really an issue, which is something to
keep in mind. Like home rule is something -- I was rereading the
Florida Association of Counties proposed platform last night, and
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October 13, 2009
probably a third of their statements include the home rule statement to
maintain it at the -- to not jeopardize home rule authority of local
government. So it's just a concept. So you probably can skip through
several of these.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, I'm certainly in support of--
MS. WIGHT: Just let me know yes or no.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. I just stepped out for a
second. Is there the possibility that the state is not going to support
libraries or they're going to cut the funding?
MR.OCHS: Sir, there was discussion last year. In fact, there
was initially some legislative proposals to cut the funding for
state-aided libraries. The industry rallied and, I believe, had the
funding reinstated, but that has been a target in the recent past.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And I see nods from Keith and from
Marla back there, too, in answer to your question.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. I'm in support of this.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Would you like to make a motion?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'm in support -- make a motion in
regards to support the state aide to the libraries and cooperatives like
Southwest Florida Library Network.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Motion on the floor and a second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(N 0 response.)
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October 13, 2009
MS. WIGHT: Okay. Protect home rule.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those -- oh, Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. If we can maybe get
consensus on these items without a vote, unless necessary, unless
there's objections, we can probably get through this a little quicker.
Just a suggestion.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Nod of the head.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. But I'm in favor of the
motion, and I'll vote for it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. That might be a way to move it
along more quickly.
Okay. I have a motion on the floor and second to protect home
rule. All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And definitely yes.
MS. WIGHT: Unfunded mandates is another repeat.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Definitely support that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Me, too.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yep.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So we've got five nods there.
MS. WIGHT: Okay. TABOR, it's the revenue and expenditure
caps.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Oppose any legislation in regards
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October 13,2009
to this.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
MS. WIGHT: As we did last year. It will probably be back.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I guess everybody's nodding on
that. Do we have five nods?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. Debbie answered my
question on that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning, do you have
your light on?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. I just wanted to know the
possibilities of that coming back, and Debbie answered that.
MS. WIGHT: It's Senator Haridopolos' main priority.
Affordable housing, to support removal of the cap on the
Sadowski Housing Trust Fund. That was a bill last year and it got -- it
got killed.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Do we have some nods on this?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yep.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Definitely.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We see a--
MS. WIGHT: 5-0.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- bit of nodding.
MS. WIGHT: Support maintaining home rule authority over
administration of the impact fee program.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes. Okay, five nods.
MS. WIGHT: Okay. Transportation, oppose raiding of the
transportation trust fund --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Definitely.
MS. WIGHT: -- which did get raided last year.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm in.
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October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MS. WIGHT: Okay. Earlier receipt of crash reports. There's a
delay right now. This didn't get any traction last year, but it is
something that Collier County would like. There's a delay from the
Florida Highway Patrol and when we can get them, and it causes a
little problem with Collier County being able to respond to traffic
hazards.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Support.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, support? We have everybody
nodding here.
MS. WIGHT: Red light running camera enforcement.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Definitely, that way it would
become points on -- if the state supports this, then it becomes an issue
with -- whereby the people that run them then gets points on their
license.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I got a question on that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What is the purpose of having
this on here?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Keith is coming up.
MS. WIGHT: It's just --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Deb, would you like to answer it, or
would you like Keith to?
MR. KLATZKOW: I can partially answer it. We are now
involved in a lawsuit involving our ordinance, along with multiple
other jurisdictions throughout the state, attacking the ordinance as
unlawful and unconstitutional. It would be a good thing if the
legislature took this and made a decision on it. I think it would end a
lot of litigation and give some light into the situation. So from my
standpoint it would be helpful for the legislation to act on this.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER HENNING: See, that's my concern is, if
that's the purpose of that, then we should do away with the ordinance
until the legislators address the issue, because what we're saying is
what we're doing is illegal, and I don't want to do anything illegal.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: It's not illegal.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So unless we have specificity of
what we're doing here, I'm not in support of it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So you -- but you are in support of the
state passing a red light running camera ordinance enforcement?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, nobody's answered my
question.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Possibly Keith might be
able to assist us on this, but I'm not excited at all about points being
assessed. You know, I'm really not excited about that. I think we're
reaching the goals we need to reach just by a minimal fee that's
charged to these people.
And I -- if the state gets control of it, too, Keith, all of a sudden is
this going to mean that the money's going to be diverted even further
before we get a chance to be able to get what cut we need?
We're trying to hold it down to costs for the first offense, and if
the state suddenly says, okay, we're adding a $15 carrying charge on
everything, now that kind of destroys the ability to be able to -- that
cost factor's going to go up. Now, how does this come together from
what you can see?
MR. ARNOLD: Thank you, Commissioner Coletta. For the
record, Keith Arnold. I represent your interests in Tallahassee.
The issue, I think, has been framed quite well by Mr. Klatzkow.
You have a local ordinance which is presently being challenged in
court. There are many jurisdictions in the State of Florida that have
local red light ordinances where they allow for red light cameras at red
light intersections and where they issue citations, loosely defined, for
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October 13, 2009
someone who runs through a red light, is caught on tape, and
ultimately the governing jurisdiction mails not a citation, not a formal
citation, but a fine nevertheless, to the owner of that vehicle.
The -- many people in the State of Florida have filed suit against
local jurisdictions that have implemented these local ordinances
suggesting they're outside the scope and purview of state law.
So the issue does become, in many instances, in this gray area, do
you have a right to, first and foremost, have this ordinance in the first
place, install traffic lights -- or excuse me -- traffic cameras at traffic
light intersections.
The second issue that -- and so to Mr. Klatzkow's point, there
may be a need for some clarity on this issue from a statewide
perspective that either says you do or you do not have the ability to
assess fines for people against the owners of vehicles who run those
red lights.
The second issue, to your point, Commissioner Coletta, is, if the
state does, in fact, authorize that, then how do you protect the
revenues that Collier County presently receives, and that very much is
contained in this issue, because we wouldn't want to see the state
approve the concept and then say, oh, by the way, we'd like to keep all
the revenues for the State of Florida. This is a local ordinance. It's a
local source of funding for Collier County.
This issue is going to be before the legislature one way or the
other. You have a vested interest one way or the other, and so the
question really becomes, what is Tallahassee going to do with this
issue? Number one, are they going to authorize these cameras at
intersections and, number two, are they going to protect your financial
interests?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So our emphasis should be on
the grandfathering in of the existing ordinances, not on what they may
do in the future with new communities coming online with red light
cameras?
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October 13, 2009
MR. ARNOLD: Which is essentially what Debbie has suggested
in this position.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So if we support this, what
we're doing is saying that if they go forward with any kind of
ordinances that Collier County or any other county that has
preexisting ordinances in place would be grandfathered in?
MS. ARNOLD: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Is there a possibility that could
take place?
MR. ARNOLD: Absolutely. This is --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. Then I can support it.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, does that mean then that they get it
on their license?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No. I don't think it does, does
't?
1 .
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Points or something?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Ifwe're grandfathered in, it
would be our ordinance as is.
MR. ARNOLD: That's really a third issue which I didn't address,
and that one involves the criminal-- criminal code. I mean, is this
going to be a fine that simply goes against the person who owns the
vehicle, or is it going to be points on a person's license?
Right now only the State of Florida, or excuse me, only -- right
now if someone runs a red light and they are cited by a uniformed
officer at the intersection, that actually goes, of course, against the
points they have, you know, for driving privileges. But the law
doesn't allow that when a camera is the -- discovers the red light
running and simply a computer mails in the mail to the owner of the
vehicle a fine, which the question is -- I mean, that's a whole separate
question.
The questions is, is that something that formally goes against the
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October 13, 2009
person's license? We don't even know who drove the car. All we
know is that a car went through the intersection. We know who owns
the car, and that's who the fine currently is assessed against, and that's
the gray legal area that Jeff is referring to.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And the motion itself should be
to support the state going forward recognizing this to be a legal entity;
two, to be able to also say that it should be a local ordinance and not
subject to state -- what do you want to call it -- charges against this.
There should be no points assigned.
I think at that point in time we're dealing with something that's
doable, but I don't want to grow a monster here that's going to infringe
upon our citizens the ability to be able to operate a vehicle in a
reasonable way.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So now, is that a motion?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's a motion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do I have a second? I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What is the motion?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That the motion be -- several
different facets. One, that we support the state recognizing this as a
legal entity; two, that it say that they recognize our ordinance and
grandfather it in as is; and three, that they don't add anything to the
fines for state revenue purposes; and fourth, that points never be
assigned.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Wow.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I don't think you can do that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Sure you can.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No, you really can't. You can't
support a state law and then tell the legislators how they've got to
write it. You know, we're either going to support the state law or
we're not going to support the state law.
This -- besides, our telling the state that, yes, we'll support the
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October 13, 2009
state law as long as you don't assess points against a driver, you know,
they don't have to abide by that at all, so they'll just reject that
qualification.
This is simply a process of eliminating lawsuits against us.
That's all it is. We're going -- we're doing something we think is
appropriate for the health, safety, and welfare of our citizens. People
are suing us because they say there's not a state law that permits you to
do that. So we're saying, state, will you please create a law that
permits us to do that. And if they will create a law that permits us to
do that, then we can -- we'll just keep doing the same thing we've been
doing and we'll be free of the lawsuits.
Beyond that, I don't think we can accomplish anything
concerning this. I don't think that we should try to tell the state how
they craft a law to administer cameras detecting violations at
intersections. We are asking them to make it legal for us to put
cameras at intersections for enforcing our law. That's all we're doing.
MR.OCHS: Yes, sir, that's correct. And I do apologize for the
ambiguity . We're looking for the state to pass legislation that
essentially affirms local government's authority to establish these red
light running programs at the local level.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Perfect. Now, we're not asking
them to set up a state law that permits them to do it or --
MR. OCHS: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- has other ramifications?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I withdraw my motion.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No. But your motion is fine if we
could just do it -- cast it --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Just as long as -- the only thing
is, I didn't want this to become something that got away from us.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's right. I agree.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And the last thing I ever want to
see happen is all of a sudden, you know, this becomes a terrible
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October 13, 2009
monster on every street corner beyond our ability to be able to control.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yep.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I have a question along the same line as
Commissioner Coyle with this -- or Debbie or whomever -- if the state
passes this law, then do we have to pay them a percentage of every
citation?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I think what we're asking
them to do is to pass a law that recognizes our right to establish these
ordinances, and --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Right.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- the cameras, end of story.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: But then would they -- would that also
mean they are privileged --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That wouldn't be our intent. That
wouldn't be our intent.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. I second the motion.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. That wouldn't be our intent,
I don't believe, but that won't keep them from doing it. They can do
that anytime they want whether we sponsor this or not, okay?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, I see.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But at least if we can get them to
ratify the action we're already taking, it relieves us of this problem
with lawsuits.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'm not going to muddy the water
any more. I think we've got it covered.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine. Then let me--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I withdrew my motion;
Commissioner Coy Ie made a motion and I seconded it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: What was your motion?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I don't remember.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It's been a while.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No, I'll tell you. I made a motion
that we ask our legislators to support state legislation which would
recognize the rights of counties, specifically Collier County, to install
red light running camera -- detection cameras at intersections.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And you seconded it?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Health, safety, and welfare.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, 4-1. All right.
Support modification.
MS. WIGHT: Commissioners, this item is about an allocation
formula -- currently, actually Norman can actually explain this one
best. But it's about Collier County not getting its fair share of funding
for transportation.
MR. FEDER: For the record, Norman Feder, transportation
administrator. I'll be fairly brief. But essentially Florida Statutes had
a provision to make sure that counties got their fair or reasonable share
of funding, and it was 50 percent population, 50 percent gas tax over
time coming back to each individual county. And, in fact, that's now
called the statutory formula.
When they established that, they did provide for an exception for
the interstate system and for some major bridges which they said
would be done by needs assessment.
So essentially what you had by statute, and the statute's cited
here, is counties getting back a fair share over time by statutory
formula with the interstate because it moves around, high priced,
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October 13, 2009
being by needs assessment and some major bridges.
Since that time, the legislature and the state have -- or
particularly the state -- DOT has added more items to what they call
needs assessment. As a matter of fact, about 80 percent of all their
funding, federal and state, now goes to the strategic intermodal
system, which is on a needs assessment, and they say we don't need
much.
So what we're trying to say is -- by this is two things. One, you
need to go back to the statute, which is still in statute, and make sure
that you are utilizing that statutory formula to get a fair share back to
counties, and that if you are going to expand needs assessment as the
funding mechanism, then there needs to be a reasonable look at return
to individual counties and the counties having more say over how
those funds are utilized and how they come to them.
So what we're asking for is what the legislature originally
structured, and that is an attempt to try and get a reasonable return to
each of the 67 counties in Florida.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes, Norm, you hit the nail right on
the head. All of the funding now goes to SIS, strategic intermodal
systems. And the problem is, is that as they continue to raid the
transportation fund up there, the end result is that there's going to be
less money coming down to the counties that do not have an SIS
system in their county.
So whether or not we can get the legislation passed to make sure
that we get our fair share, it's going to be interesting to see. But as
long as the state continues to take money out of the transportation
fund to try to balance their budget, I'm not sure if we're going to get
any traction on this.
But you hit the nail right on the head, and I hope that we finally
get other counties involved in this that do not have SIS systems, and
that they need to also address their transportation needs too. Thank
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October 13, 2009
you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Any other comments from
commissioners?
How do you feel about this? Do I have nods?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Support.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Everybody's supporting?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine. We have five -- five nods on
this.
MS. WIGHT: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We've already dealt with number eight.
MS. WIGHT: You want to skip to nine on Page 5?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Support.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
MS. WIGHT: CCNA?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yep.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. I'm hoping that we can get
something accomplished on this this year. I know it's been up there a
number of -- couple of years now.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Wait a minute, wait a minute.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Steve's been --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah, I know he's been working on that.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What is this exactly doing?
MS. WIGHT: The--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Carnell? Is it supporting
when we're already doing? Another one of those things. Oh, geez.
MR. CARNELL: For the record, Steve Carnell, Purchasing and
General Services Director.
This is the -- it's really a discretion issue in terms of being able to
give state and county, city agencies the ability to procure professional
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October 13, 2009
services in the manner we presently do or -- which, by the way, is a
qualifications-based method where we are not allowed to consider
price in making the -- in the front end, the initial selection of a
consultant -- or have the alternative to consider price along with
qualifications.
It's the only service in the State of Florida that has this protection
and prohibition against it. I can hire a doctor, this county could hire a
lawyer, this county could hire an auditor and have the ability to
consider fee as part of the selection process. And we do not have that
discretion with engineering and architectural services, and we believe
it dilutes the leverage that the public has in procuring these services
and the costs that we pay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
MR. CARNELL: And just so I -- just one thing. We would not
be eliminating the existing process. We would leave the existing
process in place. We'd create a second process, so that's what I said
about discretion. We'd have the choice of being able to use either
scenario. We still would have some usage for a qualification based
process in some cases, but we could use either, and it would give us
the discretion. Having the choice is going to give us more leverage
right there.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Your first statement says we're
already doing that. We just want to make it state law.
I just can't support it because we were elected to -- we were,
sworn duty, to protect the Constitution. The Constitution says that we
can create any law as long as it's not contrary to general law, and that's
why I didn't support -- although I support the policy, what you -- by
supporting this, I'm saying that, yeah, we already created the policy,
and now we're going to ask the state to change the policy to agree with
it.
Commissioner Coyle, that's exactly what it is, and I'm not going
to support anything that I knowingly -- that I did not know that wasn't
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October 13,2009
already law, and that's why we have the county attorney for, and that's
what's appalling is, just like the statement about the red light running.
We want to do it because we already adopted an ordinance to create it,
and we're doing the same thing here.
MR. CARNELL: No, sir, no, sir. The -- we are -- we are
complying with the state law.
The state -- at the present time, when we go out to solicit and
create a contract on the -- what we call the front end, the initial
competitive process, we do not consider price in any way, shape, or
form. That is the law . We comply with the law. That is the part of
the law we're trying to change so that we will have the option initially
to compete this the way we compete every other service in the State of
Florida, and in Collier County.
Now, you may be referring to the fact that we have a
best-value-offer process that we use among firms that are already
under contract that were procured according to the statutory process
initially. That's something that the county attorney believes, and I
believe we can -- we can do because the statute does not prohibit us
from doing that. That's from firms that are under contract that we've
already contracted for using the statutory qualifications-based process.
In other words, how do we select, how do we dole out a pr~ject
among a group of firms that are already under contract. That's the part
that the board has taken policy on an initiative of.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That isn't what you stated in the
beginning, but I appreciate your clarification. I feel much better about
the policy.
MR. CARNELL: Good.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: What this does is basically give the
county the opportunity to go out and get the best value at the lowest
possible cost so it doesn't cost the taxpayers extra money. That's the
bottom line.
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October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No, I agree.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yep.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So now do we have nods on this one --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- to move forward with this?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes, to support it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I've got five nods.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: For support.
MS. WIGHT: Alligator Alley, affirm the board's previous
position to oppose leasing?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Affirm.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Definitely.
MS. WIGHT: 5-0.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning, you too?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. That's five.
MS. WIGHT: Okay. Number 11. We're on Page 6. Shared
Ochopee emergency medical services fire station and the FDOT. This
includes support securing a portion of the existing toll to fund a fire
and EMS station on Alligator Alley, and what we're proposing is
receiving a portion of the toll, perhaps 25 cents a car, as a direct
allocation to Collier County for the expenses of facilities, equipment,
and additional requirements.
The Alley provides many emergency service and emergency
management challenges in an effort to ensure commerce and safety for
the community. This is a new item this year, and I was -- do you have
questions? Dan Summers is here if you have specific --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Support it.
Page 81
"'--'.'''.''-~'''-''~lII'11'' ...._,
October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. Just briefly, to give a
little more light on this whole thing.
The Ochopee/Everglades City Fire District, which is a private
fire district under county control, has the highest millage of any other
fire district just because of the ruralness of the area and the area they
have to cover.
They are burdened with having to service the Alley. It's a great
burden to the residents in that area. It's probably one of the reasons
why their millage is so high. And the response time is ungodly long.
And I'm sure -- Dan Summers, could you, for the benefit of our
listening audience especially -- I know my fellow commissioners are
up on this fairly well. Could you elaborate on that?
MR. SUMMERS: Yes, sir, thank you. Commissioners, for the
record, Dan Summers, Director of Emergency Services, Emergency
Management.
You are right, there is a significant burden that the Alley provides
for the Ochopee Fire Department. Those response times, as you
mentioned, are not only long, but the miles traveled for the apparatus
is quite lengthy.
The other priority here that I'm really worried about is when we
do have major automobile accidents on the Alley, not only are we
drawing from Ochopee and drawing from EMS, there are those
situations where we have an automatic dispatch of the MedFlight
helicopter. Sometimes that helicopter may not be needed, but in the
absence of first responder timely information as to whether or not to
launch that aircraft, then we run that additional cost.
So we -- there is some tremendous cost benefits there by having
what I refer to as eyes on target much easier. What we're
recommending is a very small outpost. We have a handshake from
FDOT maybe to put a trailer at the 63-mile marker somewhere \\There
the sheriffs deputies can take refuge or file reports, a very small
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October 13, 2009
abbreviated response organization at that location.
So it is nothing fancy. It is only the fundamentals, and it would
-- we think that -- I am of the opinion, my opinion, that we need to
relieve some of that burden for Ochopee because that district has
carried the Alley response for so many years.
I also want to go after the emergency management and the
wildfire situations there. If we can get out there much quicker, maybe
we can mitigate some of this wildfire activity with the state and
federal partners so we don't have these interstate closings.
So it -- I think it's something that we are looking at that the Alley
would be fully burdened for these resources. We also are working
some grant opportunities for apparatus as well. We won't know
exactly for maybe six or seven more months on that, but that's kind of
what we want to roll out there. Life safety, commerce, and to relieve
some of the burden.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Are you finished?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: What is the current toll on the road
there?
MR. SUMMERS: Two fifty.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's what I thought.
MS. WIGHT: Two fifty.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. You're asking for a fairly
substantial portion of their revenues with a 25-cent charge.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Ten percent.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, that's 10 percent of their
budget, budgeted revenues at least. If I were them, I would tell you to
take a hike, okay. And maybe the better way of doing it is to suggest
an agreement which provides for reimbursement of costs incurred so
that those times when you have some really big and serious accidents
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October 13, 2009
and big wildfires and things of that nature, they would have to
reimburse us for the cost of providing the services, and those years
when there isn't really that much and it's more routine, the cost would
be less.
But I would not, if I were on the toll board, agree to give
anybody 10 percent of my revenues when I'm getting it for free right
now. So it's a -- you might rethink the strategy involved here, but the
concept is certainly supportable and I support -- I agree with you that
we need to get some money out of this. But I don't want to get a
rejection, okay? I'd rather have a strategy that is more apt to get us an
agreement.
MR. SUMMERS: Sir -- and if I may comment on that. There is
a challenge there with that, and part of this has a very long history all
the way back to the concessionaire, the last toll raise. There was a--
kind of a nod from FDOT one day that they would support this type of
response, then the next day was, we don't want to set a precedent for
FDOT supporting emergency response activity. So there's --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Then I'd say, I don't want to set a
precedent for responding to your emergencies.
MR. SUMMERS: Well, I understand that. But in good faith and
moral conscience, we're going to be there to the best of our ability.
But I would tell you that I would also be really challenged with capital
and startup costs. This is not moving existing personnel. This is
getting grants for apparatus. This is setting up temporary-type
quarters.
So your point's well taken, but you would -- I would need some
help from you for capital or startup and reoccurring dollars so --
because I think that service really does need to be there 24/7. Yes,
there are peaks and valleys in that demand situation but, you know,
that two a.m. in the morning on an off season is still a severe accident,
so I would need your help with startup.
MR.OCHS: Well, Commissioner, let me suggest maybe we
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October 13, 2009
could do both. We could talk to FDOT. Maybe there's a way to get
some kind of allocation to cover capital costs and then have a
reimbursement for ongoing operating expenses. So I don't think it's an
either/or in this situation. I think -- it may be an and.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I could support that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I think that's what you need
to do, be a little more imaginative about how you go about getting this
money, because you're not going to get any support from us. We're
going to be looking for places to cut. We're not going to be having
any money to give to some body.
MR. OCHS: And we may have some success getting some initial
one-time capital funding --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: From grants.
MR.OCHS: -- from FDOT, and then do operating on a
reimbursement basis.
MR. SUMMERS: That sounds great.
MR.OCHS: I'd suggest we approach both.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, I think that would be an
appropriate way to proceed, and I'll support the concept.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. My concern is that this is a
long stretch of road that has very limited access from other directions.
And as you brought out, when you launch a helicopter, there's a hell of
a lot of maintenance cost involved in this thing and the replacement
costs in regards to helicopters and other items.
And then when you start looking at the amount of miles traveled
up and down that road with emergency equipment, whether it's the
sheriffs cars or whether it's ambulances, and also the personnel that
man them, their hours have got to be accounted for.
So I'm surprised that FDOT hasn't addressed this some time ago
in regards to making sure that there's adequate facilities out there.
And the burden is left on the taxpayers here in Collier County, and
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October 13, 2009
we've been shouldering that cost for many, many years. I think it's
time that -- if they're collecting a toll on there, that some of those
revenues should come towards the county to address these reoccurring
costs and replacement costs of this heavy equipment that we have here
for the rest of the citizens of the county.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. And I have no problem
amending my motion to have it where we do get the capital costs up
front and then operating costs, but it's got to be something that's a
long-term contract, because I don't want this burden to fall back on the
residents of that area. It's totally unfair. I do think we're heading in the
right direction with it, and I have no problems with including that in
my motion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So do you want Commissioner
Coletta to restate his motion?
MR. OCHS: No, ma'am. I understand the direction.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, no.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I don't know who the second
was.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I don't know who it was. I don't even
remember the first motion, to be honest with you.
So do we just have some nods on that? Do you want us to do it
that way?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Nods.
MR.OCHS: I believe I see five nods.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, and it looks like you've got all the
nods. Okay.
MS. WIGHT: Commissioners, that brings us to 12, offshore
drilling.
MR.OCHS: Confirm the previous --
Page 86
October 13,2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oppose offshore drilling. I'm absolutely
for that, opposing.
MS. WIGHT: Commissioners, last April you passed a
resolution, 2009-117, which opposed drilling within 25 miles of the
Gulf Coast, and we're asking you to -- if you want to reaffirm that
resolution.
I think I let you know that Lee County recently passed a
resolution which was the same thing, opposing drilling within 25
miles of the Gulf Coast. Sarasota, likewise, is against drilling.
This issue is most definitely going to come up in the 2010
legislative session. Newspapers in the last week around the state,
except for the local one, has written about offshore drilling, and it's
going to be a big issue.
The incoming senate president in 2011 and the incoming house
speaker in 2011 both support this, so --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I understand that the legislative
(sic) is going to have a task force on this. I think everybody's opposed
to seeing a drilling platform. I think that's what everybody's opposed
to, but I'm not opposed to doing some lateral drilling where there's not
going to be a platform out there. After all, it's about being sustainable
about our uses for energy. I just want to ask my colleagues about that
Issue.
I think we ought to oppose any offshore drilling platforms, or
offshore -- that's the whole consensus of it. But they're also talking
about doing some directional drilling that will take place out in the
Gulf but the actual facility will be on land.
Is anybody opposed to directional drilling?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yep.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Well, let's be more
specific about it, because it -- it's kind of vague, so -- I would support
just adding in -- into it, don't support offshore platforms for energy
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October 13, 2009
such as gas or natural gas or oil, okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We've got your -- your vote.
Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. I think we're totally
missing the point on this whole thing. And, you know, it's -- the
argument, the reason we want to drill is because we're going to lower
the price of gasoline to our residents. That's not true. The truth of the
matter is, even now with Alaska, the oil they bring in off the north
slope there, that's going to China and to Japan.
This is going to have no difference on our strategic supply. It's
the same philosophy that's been in place since day one when we had to
clear the forest to be able to maintain an industry until they ran out of
the timber. We had to kill all the whales in the ocean until that point
in time that that resource was exhausted.
Why don't we leave the resource in the ground? We have all the
oil that we need now at a very reasonable price -- price coming in.
This should be something for future generations to be preserved.
I'm not for drilling, but not for drilling for the right reasons. If
we're going to have to do anything, let's drill and cap it and leave it
there as a strategic reserve for that time when we need it. I mean, I
think everybody's missing the point on this.
The state wants to do it because they own the land out what, 20
miles, 25 miles.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Ten, ten miles.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Ten miles. And if they can get
the drilling within that, they pick up some great royalties to be able to
offset the budget. So in the short term, they come out ahead and they
exhaust their resource.
So we're at a great disadvantage, and we're doing a terrible
disservice to the residents -- the citizens that are going to be following
us.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah, just to follow up on what
Commissioner Coletta brought forth, is the fact that the reason that the
legislature has looked at three-mile or ten-mile limit is because, the
fact that the state then can sell the leases, and they feel that this is
going to be a windfall profit, but the problem is, they sell these leases.
They're not really going to sow (sic) the benefit until maybe another
four or five or ten years down the road if they ever decide to drill.
The problem is, is that -- also the problem lies, that if the State of
Florida gives these leases, then when this comes before the federal
government and the federal government wants to sell leases, in the
past there's been a lot of opposition by the people here in Florida
saying, we don't need to have additional drilling off the coast of
Florida, and then we're talking 25 miles out.
The problem is, if you have a major oil spill like the one that's
being experienced presently in Australia -- and they don't even know
how they're going to cap this thing because it's about two to three
miles down in the ocean over there. The problem is, that if we sell the
leases here in the State of Florida, that opens up the whole Pandora's
box for selling all the leases that belong to the federal government or
the federal government can sell.
And I think you make a good point. We should be looking rnore
at preserving the resources that we have.
As you know, the auto industry has been working feverishly to
get better mileage, and hopefully we can be self-sustainable by not
using the resources at a rapid rate as we have in the past.
So I feel that I can't support us drilling offshore at this point in
time. And I think that this is a big issue that also is being addressed
by a number of counties in the State of Florida in regards to opposing
this because it not only will affect the tourist industry if we do have a
major spill, but it also is going to affect legislation in the federal level.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And Debbie, I wanted to know, do you
have any idea how many wells have already been drilled all along the
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coast of Texas and Louisiana? I mean, when I see a map of it, they're
proliferated all over there.
MS. WIGHT: I don't, but I can find out for you, Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I would like that by tomorrow. I think
that that's important. And then how many wells have been drilled, not
only in that area, but in Alaska and everyplace else that are either
sitting idle and -- they're just sitting there, never used, or that are being
sold to other countries? Why aren't we using them here? Do we
happen to have any of that information?
Thirdly, our dollars. When I read -- there was a large article in
one of the newspapers that talked about how much money is being
poured into Tallahassee by --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Texas oilmen.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's right -- oil interests to try and get
this in there. It's not about the welfare of Florida. It's not about \vhat
happens to us. They're only concerned with bottom line. It's all about
money. And we have to separate ourselves from their money pockets
and decide what is best for us in Florida.
And lastly, aren't we now, as the whole United States of
America, trying to move away from our dependency on oil and find
other energy sources? If that be the case, why would we be drilling?
Those are my comments.
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I -- it is a complex issue, but
I would oppose drilling closer than 25 miles primarily because of the
potential danger for harming our beaches and our tourist industry.
There are underwater breaks even with directional drilling, and
probably especially with directional drilling.
So wherever the surface facility is is probably irrelevant because
underwater breaks do occur and they can be quite devastating.
You've heard a lot of reports about the fact that during the
hurricanes in the Gulf over the past several years there were no major
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October 13, 2009
breaks. I don't know what they classify as a major break, but I've seen
the satellite photos of oil sheens stretching over hundreds of square
miles in the Gulf, and there was a huge amount of oil that was lost. So
I would prefer to stay away from drilling close to our beaches.
And secondly, I also don't believe that it's an issue of supply of
oil. There are many, many, probably thousands and thousands of
acres of oil leases where no wells have ever been constructed, no
drilling has ever yet occurred, and I'm sure that these -- these leases
would be the same.
The oil companies will gobble up the leases, hold on to them,
probably not drill for the next 20 years. And it's not going to have an
immediate effect upon anything concerning the price or availability of
fue I.
So I would say, let's go with the 25-mile offshore minimum
drilling restriction and get on with life --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yep.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Do you agree with that?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I sure do, 25-mile --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: How about down at this end?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, I don't.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Make it 150 miles.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning, what do you --
what do you want?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No. I already stated my --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- stated my position, I don't
agree with the rest.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm not. I think we're missing
the point.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And that is?
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The point is is that the reason
and the justification for it, we're still saying go ahead at some time in
the future, go ahead further out. And once again, what exactly are we
trying to accomplish? We're just going to deplete a reserve that's there
that we could use in the future. We got cheap oil now. And if we get
this oil in the ground, you're not going to get it any cheaper than we're
buying it from overseas, and we're just going to deplete the resource at
a wrong time.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I think we're done with
this issue.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But I would like to, in order to
speed this process up, because we're really pontificating here --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, I know that but now we need to--
we need to make some motions on this or some nods or something.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No. You have -- you have
consensus on this issue.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And that is?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Over there, is support the
legislation.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And here, the three here do not; is that
correct?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, you do not?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No, I don't -- I don't support drilling.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, that's the way
Commissioner --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No offshore drilling within 25
miles.
MR.OCHS: We had four votes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm not supporting drilling.
MS. WIGHT: Four--
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October 13, 2009
MR.OCHS: We had four votes, sir, nods affirming your
previous resolution --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: To not support.
MR. OCHS: -- to -- yes --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's where I am.
MR. OCHS: -- to not support drilling within 25 miles.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Within 25 miles.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That was my thought.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct.
MS. WIGHT: 4-1.
MR.OCHS: So we're moving on to the next item.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So if I could finish so we can
move on. The rest of them I can support. And I believe under
enacting legislation and issues to monitor, that's just a report. That's
not opposing or supporting any issue, is it? Is that a correct
assumption on my part? On Page 9?
MR. OCHS : Yes, that's monitoring --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's not a policy. It's --
MS. WIGHT: Right.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's just a statement.
MS. WIGHT: Commissioner, we skipped the fire district bills.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, no, no. I'm supportive --
I'm in support of --
MS. WIGHT: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- what's written here --
MS. WIGHT: In support of opposing.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- of the rest of the -- the
remainder of the stuff. I mean, there's even more. I mean, there's
economic development stuff. I'm in support of all that.
MS. WIGHT: Okay, okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I just ask my colleagues if
they --
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October 13, 2009
MS. WIGHT: Agree.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- agree.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, I agree with that. I don't
have a problem with it. There is a point though -- we had a member of
the public petition us earlier today about the 1 percent surtax for the
fire rescue districts. So what we're doing really is sort of passing over
that but agreeing that it needs to be monitored and something needs to
be done about it.
He had asked us to oppose the mandatory requirement that exists
there. And I guess what I would like to ask, if I can jump ahead to
that enacted legislation and issues to monitor, I would like to ask that
the county attorney provide us with an assessment of the proper legal
action that might -- we might want to take with reference to SB 1 000.
That's on Page 9.
MR. KLATZKOW: You're asking me to come back with that?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, yeah, so that we don't ignore
the issue that was petitioned to us earlier today.
MR. KLATZKOW: I mean, it's discretionary. You guys can do
what --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
MR. KLATZKOW: From that point in time, it's pro home rule.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But there are certain clarifications
that would be helpful, okay.
And other than that, I'm also in agreement with Commissioner
Henning to just approve all the rest of those items, from 13, the fire
district bill, 14th, economic development, and then that brings us into
the enacted legislation and issues to monitor, and, yeah, we need to
continue monitoring all those issues, and that gets us right to the end.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, thank you. Just two points.
One, pay particular attention to Page 9, the Seminole gaming conlpact,
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October 13, 2009
3 percent share to local government for infrastructure. That's
extremely important to the Immokalee area to be able to keep the
infrastructure in place, and I would appreciate any kind of attention
.
gIven.
So if I understand you correctly, hometown democracy, we're
just going to keep informed on; we're not making a stance on it either
way?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's what I would say.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. I'm in agreement.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. I hope we're not going
through this too quickly so that people who are sitting here have an
understanding of what we're trying to address here.
I think that we need to touch just briefly, and maybe not into a lot
of explanation -- whether you would like to take the lead on that,
Debbie, in regards to this fire district bill.
One of the problems that I see on this particular item is that
there's going to be a lot of lobbying up in Tallahassee by the different
fire districts, and they seem to have an unlimited expense account.
They're going to be up there on a weekly basis lobbying.
We only go up there once during the session to lobby, and I'm
not sure if our voices are going to be heard in regards to the effect that
it could have on the citizens here in Collier County, and especially
when they look at creating districts for the sole purpose of having their
own ambulances and everything else. And so I've got some concerns
that we need to make sure that those are addressed during the session.
MR.OCHS: Commissioner, if I might, you'll have that
opportunity again tomorrow when you meet with the local delegation
to express those concerns. I think as long as we have your intent that
you, as a board, or the general consensus is that you oppose that
legislation and support the economic development proposals that are
in your executive summary, we can cover some of those details as part
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of your workshop tomorrow, if you prefer.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: The other thing is the Seminole
gaming pact (sic). Not only does it help the small town of Immokalee
out there, but it's going to also add revenue sources to Collier County
in regards to addressing infrastructure needs, especially if the
Seminole Indians out there decide that they want to build a large hotel
and everything, and we've got to figure out the best way to build the
infrastructure to address all the needs that are going to be needed when
people get involved in that.
The other item that's very important and that is Senate Bill 360. I
think that we also need to make sure that we're on top of this every
minute because right now there's a food fight between Senator Bennett
and Pelham in regards to what the -- what is really said in Senate Bill
360. And Senator Bennett has made this very, very --
MS. WIGHT: Clear.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: -- said it very eloquently that he is
going to go after whatever legislation needs to be changed so that it
has an effect on not only this county, but a lot of other counties in
regards to transportation and concurrency needs.
So we need to be on top of this and make sure that our
representatives here understand the impact that may be coming up
because of what -- how Senator Bennett's going to address the next
legislative session.
MR.OCHS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Let's see what else is in here.
Mobility fee. I don't think we have a clear understanding of the cost
of the mobility fees and how that's going to affect also our
transportation and concurrency needs, and so that's another area that I
think that we need to sit down and have a good understanding of how
this affects not only this county but all the other 66 counties in the
State of Florida with this mobility fee.
MR.OCHS: Yes, sir. There's a legislative report coming to the
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legislature out of both DCA and FDOT due December 1 of this year.
Once we get that document and are able to analyze that, we can come
back to this board and provide additional information and seek further
guidance.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: It's very important we stay on top
of all these particular issues.
MR.OCHS: Absolutely. That's why we've listed them all, sir.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
MS. WIGHT: Staff and Keith Arnold's group are watching all of
these items closely.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, just a couple of additional
comments concerning these, and let me -- let me first start with the
Seminole gaming pact. It's my belief that if the state has anything to
do with negotiating the terms of that, we will not get any money as a
result, okay? The state will take as much as they can get, and they'll
hold it, and then they'll decide what they're going to do with it. So the
people who hold the key with respect to what the local community is
going to get is the Seminole tribe.
Now, to the best of my knowledge, we have not had an organized
effort by this Board of Commissioners to meet with the Seminole tribe
and encourage them to contribute a portion of those revenues to
Collier County to prepare for the impact of whatever expansion of
their gaming facilities and/or entertainment or hotel facilities might
result in.
If we're going to convince anybody, it should be the Seminole
tribe, that it is in their best interest to make sure that whatever
agreement they reach, some of that money comes to local government
so we can afford to build the infrastructure necessary to support their
expansions. We should do that as a commission, and we should do it
formally, in writing or through a publicly advertised meeting with the
Seminole tribe, because I have no confidence whatsoever that an
agreement reached in coordination with the state will provide us any
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October 13, 2009
share at all.
So we need to go to the Seminoles and see what we can do. And
I'm setting that as a priority for the Board of County Commissioners.
But somebody needs to establish the necessary communications and
the best way of sitting down and talking, okay.
Can we task either the county manager or Commissioner Coletta
or someone to do that? Nope, we can't do that? Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Why not?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, I think I--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You're next.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: He's next, and I'll save my
feelings.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You know, Commissioner
Coyle, I can assure you, you're right on target. The only problem is is
that the Seminole tribe is a pretty self-contained unit. They're very,
very self-sufficient. They have the best attorneys, the best lobbyist,
the best conservationist. They've got everything that's top of the line
because they can afford it.
The truth of the matter is, at least in the recent past, and I've been
trying to change this for nine years now, they don't need Collier
County for anything. They're vested. They have the right to be able
to operate without consulting us. And it's going to cause quite a
problem when they get their new casino up and running. They're
talking about 2,000 new employees, which is going to bring in a
tremendous number of people with a hotel and everything, and the
infrastructure of 82 ends way short as far as a four-lane highway from
Fort Myers, and the road from Naples going in, it's going to stop at Oil
Well Road. Camp Keais Road isn't even on the long-term plans.
So you're going to have a little bit of a meltdown, how you're
going to be able to sustain the infrastructure to be able to meet all the
other needs that are coming forward. And this has been a real issue.
That 3 percent's the only thing I've got to grab ahold of. We need to
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October 13, 2009
keep going forward. But I take your suggestion very seriously, and I
very much would like to see if we could have on a future agenda
representatives of the Seminole tribe come forward for an open
discussion and maybe to reach some sort of understanding.
I don't know how well it's going to work. I mean, but I -- we
should try . We really should. You're absolutely correct there. And
how we reach out to them, I would suggest it be through the chair
drafting a letter inviting them, maybe setting aside an agenda date and
a time for a time certain and coming up with a parameter for
discussion that's going to take place, and then going from there.
Any suggestions from staff?
MR. KLATZKOW: I'm sorry, Commissioner. Could you--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, we just -- we were
looking to see how we could possibly involve the Seminole tribe
directly in our discussions and where -- I just made the -- I mean, I
brought the idea forward of having Commissioner Fiala as the chair
write the letter inviting them to a particular meeting for a time certain
and maybe even leaving it open to be set up after a discussion going
back and forth.
Is there anything you can offer to that?
MR.OCHS: No. I guess it's just a question of timing in my
mind, sir. You have -- you have a compact that's been negotiated
between the governor and the tribe. You also have enacted legislation
by the legislature that laid out parameters the governor was supposed
to follow in negotiating that compact.
So you have a compact and you have the legislature looking at
that compact to see ifit met their intent in terms of the parameters.
That dialogue is ongoing. The governor and the legislature have not
come back together and agreed yet that the proposed contract still
meets what -- the legislature's intent. So there was some speculation
that that would be taken up as a special session --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, no, I understand that.
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October 13, 2009
MR. OCHS: -- and it hasn't. So we can ask for a meeting with
the tribe, but you don't really know what the final compact is.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You don't, sir, but the thing is is
like Commissioner Coy Ie said, there should be an understanding of the
problem, the magnitude of the problem that's being created by this
entity that's not contributing either in the form of sales tax, impact
fees, or any other fees to be able to cover the infrastructure.
And just having them here for an open discussion could do no
harm at all, but I got to -- I got to tell you that I've tried to involve the
Seminoles and the Miccosukee tribes in the Regional Planning
Council where there's no obligation where they have to follow
anything to be able to enter in on issues that are regionally important,
and that seat's been held open for them now for two years, and we
never had a -- we never had a yes or no on it. Nobody's ever taken us
up on it.
So don't be too discouraged if no one shows up or accepts the
invitation.
MR.OCHS: The 3 percent for local government, just to be clear,
is part of the negotiated compact, so that is in the existing agreement
between --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It is.
MR.OCHS: -- the governor and tribe.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: But the existing agreement can
be amended many times over.
MR.OCHS: That's not been ratified.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The 3 percent can be redefined
so that it won't go for the intended purposes that it's supposed to be
there, and that's to support the infrastructure shortcomings that they
have created.
MR.OCHS: Yes, sir. And we can communicate that through a
letter from the chair or a face-to-face meeting with members of the
tri be.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I agree with
Commissioner Coy Ie that we should have an elected official to elected
official meeting where they come in here, and the Indian's got quite an
election process, and their members of their elected body is very well
respected throughout the county and the state.
MR. OCHS : Well, we'd be happy to put that letter together for
the chair's signature inviting the tribe to that meeting.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Is that what your thoughts were,
Commissioner Coy Ie?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, that's it exactly. Look, let's
suppose we were the governing board of the Seminole tribe just for a
moment and we're going to expand our operations, we're going to
attract thousands of new people to our facilities, and the roads won't
accommodate them. There's not sufficient water and sewer. They'll
probably build their own. But there's a lot of infrastructure that would
be needed to deal with that increased traffic.
Now, we're going to be interested in making sure that the visitors
coming to our place have a pleasant experience. It's easy for them to
get there, and they have places to park, they have places to go and
things to do. If -- it seems to me they would be -- they would want to
have the very best facilities in the area, roads, water, sewer, all the
other amenities that the government could provide.
So what we would like to -- I would like to do is to try to get
them to recognize -- maybe they already recognize -- that things will
be good for their business, and if they feel that way and they hold on
to that 3 percent that they originally agreed to give to us, that would
be wonderful, because if you've got the Seminole tribe saying, I want
3 percent to go to Collier County so Collier County can provide the
infrastructure that's necessary to support our expanding business, that's
where we want to be, to have one of the people negotiating this
agreement saying we want the money to go to Collier County.
Right now I'm not sure that either party is arguing to keep that 3
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October 13, 2009
percent in that contract. It could easily get negotiated out in a
heartbeat, and then we don't have anybody at the table trying to look
out for our interests. That's what I'm trying to do.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Madam Chair, all these topics
are very, very worthy of having. In fact, we could spend days and
days in doing it. The bottom line is, we have direction on these action
items. These other things we can talk at the end of the meeting. I see
some of our staff starting to nod off, and they're probably a little bit
hungry, and so I think Deb has --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You have direction, Deb?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- has direction.
MS. WIGHT: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine. And Leo, you also have
direction as far as --
MR.OCHS: No, ma'am, not on this last item. Sorry to belabor it.
I don't know if you want me to set that meeting yet or not.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, we -- that's not on the --
that's not on the priorities. We can have this discussion afterwards. In
fact, I'll bring it up.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: When we return from lunch?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: When we return from lunch.
We'll continue this forever, if you want.
MR.OCHS: It's up to you, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, I'll bring it up at
communications.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I think we're already there.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, we've solved it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I mean, this is part of an item
that's all married together, and this would be the time to give him
direction, not to drop it and open it up for conversation --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, the only thing I'm seeing
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October 13, 2009
is going -- if we could limit that back and forth stuff.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, we're already there. We
gave direction. I didn't think we had anything more to do.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So everybody --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's right.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Everybody's in agreement that we're
moving forward with all of these -- all of these --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, with the directions we
gave.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- remaining items with the directions we
gave.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But we gave the direction that the
chair send a letter to the Seminole tribe to encourage a meeting to talk
about this issue.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: The 3 percent.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. So it's solved, right, if
there's three votes, we've got it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. OCHS: Okay, got it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Does everybody understand what's going
on, just so -- and are there any questions?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Nope.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Very good. And we have -- we have five
nods on this?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Five nods, okay, fine.
Then thank you very much. We are going to break for lunch.
We'll see you back here at about 1 :20.
MS. WIGHT: Thank you.
(A luncheon recess was had.)
MR.OCHS: Ladies and gentlemen, please take your seat.
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October 13, 2009
Madam Chair, you have a live mike.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. We're on to 8A, or 7 A, right?
MR.OCHS: Yes. We're going to begin with your advertised
public hearings. That would begin with 7 A normally, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: But we've had a gentleman, Steve Welty,
he's here to speak on another subject altogether. He's already spoken
to the guys from Jones Mine, and he's spoken to me. And he said he's
here and he took off work and he's got a doctor's appointment at two
and his wife drove him here, so she had to take off work. So he was
wondering if he could get his three minutes in now. I said yes, even
though it's not on this subject. So Commissioners, please -- please
indulge me. Thank you.
Mr. Welty?
MR. WELTY: Thank you very much, Madam Chairman,
Commissioners. I'm -- actually my wife is the one that drove me. I
haven't worked in a while due to medical, but I'm up here because of
the right on red. I saw something on Wink News, and sure enough the
next day we got a right on red ticket.
And I've been driving since 1976, and right on reds are pretty
much a common-sense kind of thing. The only problem that I had was
I got an email yesterday from an officer, Lieutenant Minch, who
basically asked me in his email -- I asked him what he meant by
stopping, and he made a statement that I put in my email to him that
red -- that -- and I quote from Wink News. Everyone knows what it
means. You don't have to say stop full -- or you don't have to say
complete full stop. You don't have to stop for any length of time, says
Lieutenant Minch, but you must stop.
Well, stop means stop, so I don't know if stopping for any length
of time or, you know, the semantics of it. I know we got a ticket. We
come from the cancer clinic every day . We go through the same
intersection every day. If you look at the way the cameras are posted,
it doesn't catch -- down here in Florida a lot of your turns are wide
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October 13, 2009
sweeps. I'm from western Pennsylvania. You can actually make it
through a lot of those intersections and still stop and it's not within the
camera's view. And I would ask and indulge that you maybe take a
look at that.
Also, I noticed -- I talked to Eugene. I can't remember his last
name. And he had mentioned --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Calvert.
MR. WELTY: Yeah, that's it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Who is it?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Calvert.
MR. WELTY: He mentioned--
MR. OCHS: Gene Calvert.
MR. WELTY: Gene Calvert. Awfully nice guy, on the phone.
He mentioned it would be nice if I did come up here and try to support
Commissioner Coletta with what he had said in his views on the
matter.
And I've noticed also that you guys have spent a lot of money -- I
would imagine it cost a good bit of money to put up all those new little
signs that are there that says about how much time you have to; how
to stop, you know, at a red light. I think it's common sense how to go
through that.
And that's basically all I was up here to try to say. I -- I'm a
motorcycle rider, obviously, and I can't tell you how many times
we've almost been killed for people going through red lights, not
people going around right-hand turns.
And you had mentioned something on Wink News that they -- I
guess at Vanderbilt and 41, they caught 507 people, but 500 of them
were right on reds? We just went to lunch. I watched two people go
through a red light and a county sheriff almost went through a stop
sign down here and almost hit our car.
So I think if you really sat down where I live -- because that's the
intersection I live at -- you would catch a lot more people than seven
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October 13, 2009
going through a red light as opposed to 500 right on reds.
And then one last thing and I'm done. You mentioned earlier
about keeping money, the money that goes to Tallahassee, you don't
get your cut on something else this morning. And basically what I
was saying, the numbers on the back of these tickets, when you call
and send your money in, you're sending them to Ohio or Arizona.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Arizona.
MR. WELTY: Why don't we keep the money in Naples or at
least Florida as opposed to -- I called this number so many times with
-- for a month. No one calls you back at the number, and I'm calling
Arizona for a Naples traffic ticket.
So that's all I want to say. I support what you had to say, and
that's it. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
MR. WELTY: And thanks you guys, too.
Item #7 A
RESOLUTION 2009-248: CUR-PL2009-44 SR 846 LAND TRUST,
REPRESENTED BY R. BRUCE ANDERSON OF ROETZEL A.ND
ANDRESS LPA; AND MARGARET PERRY, AICP, OF
WILSONMILLER, INC., A CONDITIONAL USE RE-REVIEW
(CUR) OF THE PROPERTY COMMONLY REFERRED TO AS
JONES MINE. THE CONDITIONAL USE (CU-2004-AR-6904)
WAS APPROVED ON SEPTEMBER 25, 2007 AND IN
ACCORDANCE WITH CONDITION #3, THE CONDITIONAL
USE APPROVAL SHALL BE REVIEWED BY STAFF AND
BROUGHT BACK TO THE BZA ON THE FIRST
ANNIVERSARY OF APPROVAL AND AGAIN ONE YEAR
AFTER THE FIRST ANNIVERSARY REVIEW. THE SUBJECT
PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 16000 IMMOKALEE ROAD,
SECTIONS 35 & 36, TOWNSHIP 47 SOUTH, RANGE 27 EAST;
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October 13, 2009
AND SECTIONS 1 & 2, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 27
EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA - ADOPTED
W/STIPULATIONS
MR.OCHS: Ma'am, that moves us to 7A. This item is continued
from the September 29,2009, BCC meeting. This items requires that
all participants be sworn in and ex parte disclosure be provided by
commission members.
It's CUR-PL2009-44 SR846 Land Trust represented by R. Bruce
Anderson of Roetzel & Andress, LP A, and Margaret Perry, AI CP, of
WilsonMiller, Inc., requesting a conditional use rereview of the
property commonly referred to as Jones Mine.
The conditional use was approved on September 25,2007. i\nd
in accordance with condition 3, the conditional use approval shall be
reviewed by staff and brought back to the Board of Zoning Appeals on
the first anniversary of approval and then again one year after the first
. ..
annIversary -- excuse me -- annIversary reVIew.
The subject property is located at 16,000 Immokalee Road,
Sections 35 and 36, Township 47 south, Range 27 east, in Sections
one and two, Township 48th south, Range 27 east, Collier County,
Florida.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. And would everyone who
wishes to speak on this subject in the audience please stand up so you
can be sworn in.
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And Commissioners, this is our time to
state our ex parte, and we will start again with Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay, Madam Chair. Of course,
we have heard this issue before, so I will cover only those
correspondences that occurred after our last packet of 9/23/2008. Had
meetings, correspondence, emails, telephone calls, and they're all in
my file.
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October 13, 2009
That's all I have.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, okay.
Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. As Commissioner Coyle
has stated, that we've reviewed this a number of times, so I'll briefly
explain my ex parte. I met with Bruce Anderson and Bruce Tyson and
the Damon Jones back in 4/3/08, had a telephone conference call with
Bruce Anderson and Dr. Charles Dowding, and that was back at
4/18/08.
I met with Mr. Dowding at the site. We went through the deal
where we had mine -- or had the explosions at the mine to record the
impacts there. And again, I had the site visit with Jones Mine and
Bruce Tyson, and that was 12/13/07.
And if there has been any correspondence on this issue, it's also
located in my packet here that's open for review if anybody so desires.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Nothing.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I've had meetings,
correspondence, I've talked to staff, talked to Mark Strain. That's
about it, and I got everything in my folder if anyone wishes to see it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Of course, we had the meeting from
before, and there was a lot of preliminary work before then, including
I went over to the mine and met with the guys over there and listened
to the explosion and saw what it was going to look like and took a
look at the neighbors in the surrounding areas.
Also, have met with Bruce. And according to my ex parte items,
it says meetings, correspondence, emails, and calls, and they would all
be in here for public record.
That's it. And then we can move forward.
MR. ANDERSON: Good afternoon, Madam Chairman,
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October 13, 2009
Commissioners. My name is Bruce Anderson from the Roetzel &
Andress law firm on behalf of the petitioner.
The purpose of this hearing is to comply with a requirement that
the ongoing mine operations come back for a review this month.
As the staff report states, the mining operation has met all the
conditions of approval, and we're requesting that you accept this
report.
My client does have one modification to the conditions that he
would like to discuss with you, and I and the other members of the
team will be happy to try to answer any questions that you might have.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We have -- do we hear from staff?
And then we have five speakers. Did staff want to comment on this?
MS. ZONE: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Melissa Zone,
Principal Planner with the Department of Zoning and Land
Development.
This area staff has reviewed in transportation, environmental, and
engineering, and current planning has reviewed the conditions of
approval that were placed on this mining operation, and it found they
are still in compliance with all the regulations that are contained in the
resolution.
I'm available for any questions, if you have any. Other than that,
I think that would end my presentation.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. Would you call the speakers,
please?
MS. FILSON: Yes, ma'am. The first speaker is David Garrett.
He'll be followed by Don Cox.
MR. GARRETT: Hello. I'm David Garrett. I live at 56th
Avenue Northeast, and according to Jones Mining numbers, I'm 1,700
foot from the blasting area.
I was here at the last meeting, I think it was a year ago. The area
I live in, they said they'd be finished in about a year. They're still in
that area.
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October 13, 2009
My complaint is really not so much as -- anything that Jones
Mining did or didn't do against me. I've been there since '93. They
started with the pit, the field pit in '98. I've dealt with that noise until
now. I wish we could do something. They're right there close, 1.,700
foot. I talked to Damon earlier today. I feel like I know the guy on the
drag line. I don't know him, but I see his every movements every day
I come home.
I get off work, I make it through the red lights and the cameras, I
think. I go home, I sit down, and then I hear drag line over there and
some backhoes and stuff digging. And like I say, I talked with
Damon. He said, work -- you know, rock's slow. I understand his
problems, but my problem is, you know, there's just too much noise in
that residential area.
I do have some cracks in my house. I have some cracks in my
lanai. I talked to him about that. Is it caused from the blasting? You
know, nobody -- even an engineer couldn't come in there and say,
that's caused from the blasting. But when I mark it with a pencil,
everything looks good. I watch it, they blast, and you can see the
cracks move a little bit further. So did the blasting crack my -- the
Sheetrock in my lanai, I don't know, but it accelerated it.
I pulled up my carpet. I seen the cracks I had on the floor. I put
some tile down, and now I'm watching a little bulge and crack.
Damon said he would come out. He has offered several times to
come out and look at it, but my point was, I want an engineer to come
out and look at it. I want somebody that I -- I'm not saying I can't trust
the Joneses, I'm just saying I want somebody there that I can -- I can
feel comfortable with and they can tell me, no, that's not from the
blasting.
And I don't want to sign any kind of paperwork that later down
the road that might -- if I do sell the home, that they ask me, do you
have any blasting damage? I want to be able to say no, because what I
might get paid now I might lose when I sell my home.
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October 13, 2009
And Mr. Coletta, I know what you're up against because you're
my commissioner, but you've got four other people here that might --
might not -- I mean, they're in a win-win situation from the rock. You
got cheaper rock, but you're not because you're in -- I feel like you'll
do the right thing, but I don't know about the other people. Thank
you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I wonder about them, too,
sometimes, I got to be honest with you.
Can I ask some questions related to this?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure, sure.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Who can I speak to on this,
Damon or Bruce? It doesn't matter. We had set up quite a process
with an engineer to be able to come out and to make an assessment.
What happened to that process?
MR. JONES: Good afternoon, Commissioners, Damon Jones,
owner of -- one of the owners of Jones Mine.
We've had the process in place, you know. We've always said,
contact me. I've made, you know, multiple offers to come and take a
look and see what we're -- you know, what the Garretts have, what
their issues are. I've never been allowed to do that.
You know, again, we've always said, let me come take a look at
it, see, before you spend money on an engineer. If it's something that
just as a good neighbor we can work something out, I'd rather do that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, he said he didn't feel
comfortable, and I thought we had set up a committee to pick out one
or two different engineers.
MR. JONES: We've done that, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. So I'm kind of lost \vhy
the engineer hasn't been able to respond when he was -- asked for it.
MR. JONES: I don't recall being -- requesting the engineer--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I think you heard a
request today.
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October 13, 2009
MR. JONES: I'll follow up with that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And would you make sure that I
get that report personally? And also, too, is there a pre-inspection
done on this property?
MR. GARRETT: Yes, there was.
MR. JONES: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. I would personally like
to see that report. Of course, copy all the commissioners on it and
whatever documentation that goes with it in the hole. And one of the
nice things, too, about this, even though this has been reviewed on a
yearly basis, within the contract, the wording is such that we can call it
back at any point in time for review again. And believe me, the way
it's worded, it's open-ended in the favor of the public.
But let's see what we can do on this particular issue, and I'm
waiting to see what the other people have to say that are here.
MR. JONES : Yes, sir.
MR. GARRETT: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Dan Cox -- I mean Don Cox.
He'll be followed by Sue Jones.
MR. COX: I live on 60th Avenue Northeast. Basically it's the
same thing, I need a physical construction engineer to come out there
and inspect our homes to make sure they are still safe and proper.
We have speak (sic) to the J oneses in the hallway previous and,
you know, and they want to kind of come out and see what they want
to work out, but I would still rather have it physically done as a good
-- I'm losing my voice.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, you're doing fine. Basically
what you're saying is that you would like to have an engineer come
out?
MR. COX: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Not Damon?
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October 13, 2009
MR. COX: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. I can understand that
request. Once again, same thing with you. Now, I was in your house,
right?
MR. COX: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, right. And I took a "Talk
through. I'm not an engineer, so I'm not going to --
MR. COX: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- try to explain what I saw
because I'm past the point of being able to make those kind of
judgment calls. But that's why we set up this engineer, to be able to
make these kind of calls. And the pre-blast survey was done on your
property, too, correct?
MR. COX: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. So I mean, this should be
a no-brainer. It should be easy as anything to do. You've got this
engineer that's not beholden to the mining company. It's beholden to
the county commission -- at least the way we set it up it should be --
and the determinations he makes should be something that are
substantiated. And then the only thing that has to be figured out at that
point in time, what can be done to be able to remediate the damage
that's been done. I agree with you. And that request also goes for
John Cox here, too, complete report to come back.
And at this point in time, if I may, I'd like to read what I found in
the contract with the -- with the petitioner: The BZA may revoke the
approval of this conditional use if, A, the approval -- the approved use
is conducted, managed, or operated -- operations impair the character
and integrity of the zoning district and surrounding area, or if the
applicant does not fully comply with or complete all conditions of
approval, or if plans are found not to be in the best of the public
interest or are determined that the public health, safety, or welfare is in
danger.
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October 13, 2009
And believe me, I mean, when you read this thing, it's not
open-ended with all sorts of whereas or, you know, whatever, to
muddy the water. This thing is plain as all day. So even though this
thing has been coming back on a yearly basis, we're going to take this
point in time to look into these particular complaints and see if they
can be resolved. If for some reason they can't be resolved, then we're
going to call everybody back again and deal with this situation in a
one-on-one.
MR. COX: All right. That will do it. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: And your next speaker -- I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: May I ask who sends the engineer out to
these homes?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I think the request has to
come from Jones Mine, and then that starts the whole process going
forward. And of course they'll do it. There's no doubt about that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Sue Jones. And Mr. Ochs,
these are the photos that -- he's going to put them on the overhead for
you.
MS. JONES: I also live on 60th Avenue Northeast. And as you
can see, there are only three of us here today, three homeowners. At
the last meeting there were 22. And I mean, our area is under so much
stress now as you guys know. I mean, some of these houses that have
been damaged, they've already been abandoned. They're in
foreclosure because people are trying so hard to, you know, just make
enough money to pay their mortgages. And trying to sell a house that
already has damage, it's very difficult.
My home has some new cracks in it. It also has a -- when the
pictures are shown around -- I have a florescent light that, all of a
sudden one day it's just hanging down one end. The noise -- yeah, on
the upper left corner there. Just one end of it. It's all of a sudden just
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October 13, 2009
hanging down. I don't have monkeys running around in my house
pulling down lamps. There's some reason for this. There are cracks.
And my house is only two-and-a-halfyears old.
And, you know, my concern is, even like the well. How am. I
going to know if the well is being damaged?
I know that there are -- there is sinkhole damage reported all
around our area, which is new. There's been such a drought this year
and last year that I can't prove that the mining is aggravating the
sinkholes, but we can't disprove it either. There's been several
homeowners that have filed insurance claims and -- for sinkhole
damage, now that, you know, the mine has been blasting.
And, you know, they're fine people, and I understand what
they're doing, we need the rock, but we're homeowners, and these are
-- our biggest investments are our homes, and we can't -- we can't just
go and let everything go like that.
And there was an interesting article in Naples Daily News, Jeff
Lytle's column, and he was saying that, you know, there are rules and
there are some rules that have been sort of bent. And one of the
examples he used was, one of the gentlemen that lived in Golden Gate
Estates complained that explosions from rock mining near his home
have produced damaging cracks.
And the record shows that the commissioners approved the
blasting. And they -- you know, all of the data shows that nothing was
wrong, you know. All the numbers are right and everything, but we
still have damage to our homes. And you know, he commented, okay,
it's wrong, but it's still okay.
And I want to -- I want to thank you, Mr. Coletta, for coming out
personally and seeing some of the damage. I think that's very
important that you see and -- you know, if anything can be done for
our homes, I think especially of Don Cox, and his home is just a mess
now, and it's a very sad situation.
And we're looking for help, we're looking for, you know, an ear
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October 13,2009
to listen to us and to really listen about our concerns. It's like David
against Goliath. We don't -- we don't have attorneys, we don't have
money . We're trying to -- we're struggling just trying to make our
ends meet, and we're just asking for your help.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Sure thing.
MS. JONES: Appreciate it. Thanks for your time.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Maggie Kemp. She'll be
followed by William Swanson.
MS. KEMP: Hi. My name is Maggie Kemp. I live at 2179 47th
Avenue Northeast, which is down in the area where they're doing their
current blasting.
From what I understand, there hasn't been a lot of blasting
recently. I haven't witnessed any myself. I assume it's because of the
lower activity in the housing market and such.
I do look on a monthly basis. I review my house. I go around
and look and see if I see any new cracks. I have not seen any, and I
certainly understand other people of that. But my house was built four
years ago. It was a spec home, and I can tell you I have a lot of other
things going wrong with my house that are completely unrelated.
The guy that built the house used the cheapest cabinets, the
cheapest faucets, the cheapest everything and, you know, that's all
going to the wayside. And I'm not blaming that on the mine, but I also
have to wonder if some of these problems with these other homes may
be related to just houses that were built way too quickly in a greedy
environment.
J ones Mine, I think, has demonstrated everything they can
possibly do to be a decent neighbor with responding to people's
requests. I don't know that some of these homeowners, if they don't
let him come out and look at the damage -- I realize that that's the first
step before you call an engineer out, but the other thing that I think
people don't understand is they've given a tremendous amounts of
money to their foundation, and they have provided things for school
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October 13, 2009
children that enable their lives to be uninterrupted by this economic
environment, and I think that that's a pretty nice thing.
And, yeah, there has been a little bit of noise going on over there,
but I'm very thankful that there's activity going on because it means
there's some activity going on in the county. It means there's sonle
housing going on and some projects going on. And I'd rather see that
and put up with a little bit of annoyance from the noise than watch the
value of my home drop another $50,000 this year. Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The final speaker is William Swanson.
MR. SWANSON: My name's William Swanson. I'm a
homeowner on 54th Avenue Northeast. Basically in the middle of
everybody that spoke to you today.
I have no problems with my home other than structural, you
know, stucco cracks, as normal, from the house settling. We do live
on a mound of sugar sand out there. And as the water table continues
to decrease in this area, you know, we don't have the moist soil for our
homes to sit on.
Everybody knows that the houses in the Estates area were built
way too quickly and they were built way cheap. I built my home in
'99. We finished in 2000. I've lived there for the duration that Jones
Mine has been in operation, and I -- you know, there's really no other
reason for my -- for my cracks in my stucco, and the cracks in my
flooring in my garage underneath the wood floor as I ripped it up a
couple years ago, other than the home settling.
So, you know, there's really no reason for anybody to blame
Jones Mine for any of the defects that the builder is responsible for.
For everybody that's been complaining, I have for the last four
years been partners in an electrical contracting business, been in the
construction industry for about 12, 13 years since I graduated from
Lely High School.
I've seen the way that the homes were built here. I've wired
probably 15, 20 houses in the Estates area. They cut corners
Page 11 7
October 13, 2009
whenever the building was going on unfortunately. It was, move to
the next one as quick as possible.
So in regards to the stucco cracking on the -- on the homeowners'
walls, you know, I've found at my home that they floated the wall
because of defects in the concrete block. They had to make it flush.
They had to make it look good, so they added three quarters of an inch
of stucco where they should have only added probably a quarter of an
inch. So you know, you're always going to have cracks in those
circumstances.
And the flooring, it's the same thing. You're sitting on a
sugar-sand mound, and it's been drying up for the last seven or eight
years, seeing that we haven't had the rain that we were used to.
So I really don't see any -- any need to put any fault on Jones
Mine whatsoever. I think I live the closest out of everybody
concerned to the blasting zone, what I've been told by Damon.
So I would invite any of the members of the council to come to
my house and view the same situation on my home as the other
homeowners in this council meeting have, and it's just based on poor
construction methods.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, sir. That was our last
speaker?
MS. FILSON: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commission Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I already spoke. Let
Commissioner Henning go next, and I'll follow.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Our staff report says that they're
in compliance. What's the argument here? I'm not sure --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- what the issue is if they are
compliant to what we asked them to do. What's the issue?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well-- may I?
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October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Well, the issue isn't that
-- the fact that they're not compliant. Their full compliance requires
interaction with the residents in a way to be assured that everything is
coming together to be able to protect their interests. We're trying to
balance a fine line between a business interest for a resource that we
need and jobs that are needed out there against existing residents that
are within that area.
And the truth of the matter is, you know, it's all perception.
Now, whether these are related directly to Jones Mine or they're not,
it's not for us to judge, not sitting here today. There's a whole
mechanism that's been put into place.
The only problem is is this fell a little bit short. We haven't had
the access to the engineer on a readily basis, and I understand why.
These are tough times out there. Money is extremely tight. And if
you can put off or avoid an extra expense, you're going to do so. And
an engineer is expensive, and they do have to pay for it from Jones
Mine, and I'm sure probably in times that are a little better and money
is flowing at a normal rate, it wouldn't be the objective that it was
today.
But now that you're before us and we're having this discussion --
Damon, could I ask you to come up, please? You understand about
the importance of the engineer?
MR. JONES : Yes, sir. And even if someone requests and
doesn't want me to come out there, just says I flat want an engineer,
I'm still willing to send one. That hasn't been the case. Other -- we've
-- I've sent engineers out to -- we've done three homes. One was --
one was just to work through part of the selection committee, another
one was a neighbor that spoke at one of the other hearings. It's never
been determined that the blasting has caused the damage. I mean,
both firms have done inspections on homes.
But, you know, we agreed, you know, to this process. You
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October 13, 2009
know, obviously, call me, you know, I'm right there, you know, I'm
your neighbor. As I said, I think I'm one of the only conditional uses
that has someone's name and phone number as one of the conditions.
You know, we'll work through it. You know, obviously the, you
know, economic times have hit me dramatically. You know, I haven't
gotten unscathed. You know, we're a single mine. You know, I'lTI not
a CEMEX or Florida Rock where I've got 50 mines over three
different countries where we can close this one because there's no
business. This is how I'm paying -- trying to pay my mortgage and,
you know, my 12 employees that I'm, you know, hanging on to try to
make payroll right now every week.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Sure, and I sympathize with
everything you're saying. I understand what you're going through.
And your 12 employees you have out there, thank God they've still got
jobs. But that gets us back to the basis of the whole things.
You know, we went way out of our way to make sure we had a
mechanism in place to try to protect the interests of the homeowners.
We also tried to put in something that would balance some of the
inconvenience, and that's the funds that you have in place, and thank
you for that fund being continuous and the fact that it offered the
after-school programs for the kids in the neighborhood and offered a
certain amount of amenities that the neighborhood wouldn't have
received without it.
But let's get back to the engineer. I know it's an additional
expense, but you have two or three people here today that would like
to have an engineer to be able to make an analysis from the initial
inspection that took place, the pre-blast, to this point in time. And the
report that's made, and when it's filed and everything, I'd like to see it
personally come to myself and the other commissioners.
Now, I'm not going to ask for a change as far as having you come
back any sooner. I think that what we have in here that -- where we
can call you back upon demand meets a lot of needs. In fact, I kind of
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October 13, 2009
wonder why we ever put it in for a yearly review when we could have
called you back whenever the situation got a little bit, what do you
want to call it, difficult for the residents out there.
And so I kind of wonder where we stand on that. So -- but the --
you have to realize that if we go through the engineer reports and if
there's problems out there that don't seem to be resolved, very likely
this will come back to the commission to be able to be heard one more
time.
And I wish this difficulty would never have happened, but the
problem is is the location of the mine to the residents that's out there,
and trying to find a happy balance between the two has been
extremely difficult, and I think you can understand the position that
we're in and probably have some empathy for the residents that live
out there. I know you do. You're a very caring person.
But can you agree to that, sir?
MR. JONES: Yes, yeah. I'll -- I mean, I'll order those, you
know, when we leave here. We'll schedule that with them. You
know, I have no issue with any of those conditions and, you know, the
process. And like I said, I believe I've done everything I've always
said I would do, you know, and that's all -- that's all I can stand by is
that I've been honest. I've done everything I've promised I would do,
and we'll promise to continue that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. Possibly now we should
be addressing your attorney about what's in this document at this point
in time. I think he had some questions or some requests that he would
like to make? Mr. Anderson?
MR. ANDERSON: Yes, Commissioner Coletta. Mr. Jones has at
least one modification that he'd like to ask for in the conditions, and
also if -- at some point we'd like to revisit how often we get to spend
time with you on this.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What, you don't like coming
back every year and being able to work with us personally?
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October 13, 2009
MR. ANDERSON: It's my pleasure.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, of course.
MR. JONES: I know Mr. Anderson definitely does.
No. With regards to the community fund. To date, we've
contributed over, you know, this past year, you know, over $50,000,
which, trust me, is -- you know, was money well spent in my opinion,
but, again, tough economic times. It's tough.
You know, we sponsored the community carnival that's put on by
the -- all the schools out there. We -- I gave -- the committee decided
to give money to the high school who provides after-school
transportation. The committee's agreed to, again, fund some more of
that along with their after-school tutoring program.
We purchased -- for Estates Elementary over on the east side,
they needed a multi-function copier/printer to correspond because they
get kids from Immokalee and everywhere, and parents were having to
make phone calls to notify parents of stuff and projects.
Moving forward, again, Joneses has always been benevolent
since they were out there in '99. I've never shied away from, you
know, what we thought was a civic responsibility.
With the community fund, what I'm asking is, given the current
economic conditions, could that be waived? You know, I would like a
five-year period, and then we can start it back up. There's still over
$30,000 in there that the committee's, you know, looking for ways --
you know, beneficial ways to spend that money.
We still collect a dollar a truckload. I would agree to tie that --
that's paid every six months. You know, through a reflection of how
busy I am is how big a truck --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: How many truckloads?
MR. JONES: Right now we've been averaging -- we're down to
ten or 15, 20 trucks a day.
I worked it out to where, you know, I could actually afford to pay
that -- because 40,000 works out to almost $3,500 a month, you know.
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October 13, 2009
That's two employees I can keep working, you know, right now.
That's a fuel bill, you know; that's an equipment payment; that's, you
know -- I've worked it out, if we could do a six-month average, you
know, based on those quarterly things of where I average 10,000
trucks that month, that works out to almost 4- to 500 trucks a day, well
short of the 800 that's been established where we -- you know, we
need somewhere in the middle. I have no idea when we're going to
get turned around.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, I understand that. No one
does. And I understand what your economic situation is. Let me -- a
couple of things that comes to mind at this point in time. One, this is
not something that was advertised on the agenda, so the speakers that
came up were unable to comment on it. Number two, are you
suggesting that this be -- how much a year is it?
MR. JONES: It's $40,000 a year.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right. And that's a pretty
generous number, and we appreciate the fact that, you know, you
agreed to it originally.
But the question is is, you're talking about 40,000 being forgiven
or 40,000 being delayed to be paid sometime in the future?
MR. JONES: I would like to -- I would like to temporarily waive
that condition, and then we'll start it back up.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, in other words, start it
back up like we never lost any time in between?
MR. JONES: I don't want it to accrue because there's no--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's the word I was looking
for.
MR. JONES: Yeah, I don't want to -- I can't afford for it to
accrue, then I'd be looking at, as soon as things pick back up, I've got
to stroke a check for -- I'd never catch up, unfortunately.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I'll tell you what -- I'm a
little leery about this for the fact that I haven't had any feedback from
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October 13, 2009
the residents. And, you know, I would almost like to see if they could
be asked to come up one at a time with the chair's permission and just
give a brief comment on that to be able to give us some guidance.
I hate to bring this back for another meeting and bring everybody
back out again. I don't think that that would be in anybody's best
interest. But because of the lack of advertising on it, I really don't
know quite how to respond. Myself, I'd like to see something that was
delayed, and maybe three, four years from now, there would be an
accelerate payment thing to be picked up and pick it up over the
balance that's been in lieu over the rest of the period that's going to be
out there. Maybe from 40,000, it might go to 45- or 50-. Some sort of
a plan that would work out to the best advantage for the residents out
there, because this is the one compensation they're getting for putting
up with the background noise and the aggravation that's taking place.
And obviously your mine isn't moving at the pace that you
thought it was because of the economy. So the fact is, is that you
probably won't be able to make those original goals that -- goals that
you came up with when you were going to be completed at different
segments and be able to move forward, and that's understandable, you
know. You can't make the rock disappear. You've got to be able to
sell it. I'll leave it up to you, Chair.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You know what might be a nice idea is
maybe if you and the neighbors and Jones people sat down together,
worked up an agreement. Once you've got some kind of an agreement
between all of you, just bring that back to us, whether it be, you know,
half the amount per year for a couple years, or however you want to
do it, and then just bring it back to us to ratify --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- rather than bring everybody back in
again or delay this. What do you think?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, that's fine. It could go on
the consent agenda unless one person objected to it, then it would have
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to be on the regular agenda.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Right. But if you're negotiating it out and
these are your people, I don't see why it should be a problem.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I can't find the resolution for
this item. Did anybody ever find it? As far as this discussion about
moneys for whatever, what does that have do with the money, huh?
MS. ZONE: Sorry, Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's an attorney -- a legal
question is, is where's the rational nexus, or is this an exaction?
MR. KLATZKOW: No, it's not an exaction. It was -- as
Commissioner Coletta was saying, this mine caused -- when this mine
was activating at it's peak and they were generating a lot of traffic and
noise, it was a burden to the community, and the idea at the time was
that this would help ameliorate that for the community.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. What was the moneys
for, a school or something like that?
MR. KLATZKOW: The moneys weren't really -- in the
conditional use itself, the moneys really aren't earmarked for any
particular purpose. They've been -- the community got together, I take
it, with the mine owner, and they've elected to go this route with the
schools.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oof. Where's the resolution at?
Anybody find the 2008 resolution?
MS. ZONE: The two thousand --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: 2009?
MS. ZONE: -- 08, two thousand -- or 290.
MR. KLATZKOW: It would be Page 8.
MS. ZONE: And that was the most recent resolution.
MR. KLATZKOW: Page 8 of your agenda book.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Wait a minute. I'm getting my
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October 13, 2009
answer over here.
MS. ZONE: I'm sorry.
MR. KLATZKOW: I think you'll find what you need on Page 8
of the agenda book.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Page 8. That's the resolution?
MR. KLATZKOW: It's the conditional-- it's the conditions to
the resolution that are set out.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Thank you. I--
MS. ZONE: Commissioner Henning, resolution 2008-290 was
the last approved resolution. At that hearing there was some
modifications.
We -- the staff -- or not staff. At that time they repealed the other
existing resolutions that were in place so that the operation had only
one resolution governing the whole operation.
If we do not change -- this process that we're in right now is just
to review the conditions of approval and do not have to report on
approving another condition -- or another resolution if we maintained
the 2008-290.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, okay. So it's a -- all right.
So we won't have to hear this anymore?
MS. ZONE: Well, they are required to come back every two
years, so it would be two years from today's date that they would
come back again.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Unless we change that.
MS. ZONE: Well, if you change it, then they would have to
come in for a conditional use amendment to go through the public
hearing process, because the condition that is set on for them to come
back to rereview, which is condition number three, is a condition that
was put in place by this board of zoning appeals, and then was brought
back to the Planning Commission, who then heard these conditions,
and they agreed to your conditions and have kept it.
So if we modify any of these conditions of approval, we would
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October 13, 2009
have to take it through another public hearing process.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh. I appreciate you explaining
that.
MS. ZONE: Certainly.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I guess my only concern
is, these moneys are not used -- I mean, if it's a -- if it's supposed to be
meant for mitigation, giving it to a school, is that really mitigation or,
you know, painting somebody's house pink, is that mitigation for what
I'm hearing is a burden? What's the burden? Is it noise? Why don't
you play some music over there, some birds or something like that so
you can mitigate the noise?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Is that it, Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. First of all, I want to thank
Bruce Anderson, and also the gentleman that I worked with -- with Dr.
Charles Dowding back in two thousand -- or on 4/18 of 2008, where
we went out -- and I believe that at that time we had -- we were
inundated with a lot of complaints from the mine.
And I believe that Mr. Jones, along with Bruce and along with
that engineer that I believe is from, what, Northwestern University,
basically sat down and they figured out what they could do to address
the charges and the disruption of the blasts going through the surface
of the rock. And I believe that there was some breakthroughs in
regards to how many holes they were going to drill, the poundage of
explosive that they were going to put in the rock. There was a number
of issues that were addressed.
And 10 and behold -- to be honest with you, I don't think I've got
more than two or three emails since the last time you were here. I'd
have to check that. Maybe I don't -- maybe I only got one email.
But I'm concerned that the people that came before us today to
speak, if there were provisions already established, how come those
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weren't followed?
Can you -- can maybe, you, Bruce, or maybe Damon can tell us,
if these same people complained, why didn't you take the necessary --
if there was complaints, why didn't you address these with an
engineer?
MR. JONES: To the best of my records, I was never asked for
the engineer, just flat out, send an engineer to my house.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. Have you gotten a number
of phone complaints about your operation out there?
MR. JONES: No. No, sir. I haven't had -- we had one asked
about Saturday working, a noise complaint.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MR. JONES: There was one email to the commissioners about
the blast dates. One of the dates that they complained about, I didn't
even blast, but it was on my calendar, but we had to cancel the blast. I
still publish my calendar on jonesmining.com that I put, you know,
dates for blasting. It's all subject to change. That day the truck broke
down that brings the explosive material from Ocala, so we ended up
having to cancel it.
It's -- I don't think there is an issue -- I know there's, you know,
three neighbors here today. You know, I think a lot of it historically
through this has been misunderstanding, not understanding what's
.
gOIng on.
General concern -- and that's where I think I've been trying to be
as helpful as possible because a lot of it was just not knowing what I'm
doing over there, not understanding what's going on, and trying to
communicate with that. And between the Northwestern University
study that they're doing at the test house and trying to pass that
information on to, you know, pro- -- you know, having that
engineering selection committee to, you know, my communication
and me wanting to come to the house and let -- you know, talk, tell me
what your experience is and what days, you know. I'm trying to, you
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October 13,2009
know -- you know, be as, not accommodating, but try to communicate
so we kind of understand.
You know, like I said, we're both neighbors out there. You
know, mine just happens to be a business. They're residential. But,
you know, we can get along. It hasn't been a rampant, you know,
complaints to me.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, the next question I have is,
you're still working with Dr. Dowding?
MR. JONES: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. So you -- there is some
continuity between what you're doing at the mine and with this
consultant that you have hired from Northwestern University?
MR. JONES: Yeah. If you'd like, this is--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, no, that's okay. And the other
thing, like I said, is, I haven't gotten any complaints, maybe one or
two if that -- I'd have to go back and check thoroughly when the last
email was. I could probably go through this right now. But it wasn't
like when -- when you first were here about the amount of complaints
that were out there.
So I think whatever you've done, it's been a great improvement.
So I'm not sure -- if these people still have an issue, I would hope that
you could just take care of that and hopefully that this would all fade
away, because I don't foresee where there's a real problem to this.
MR. JONES: Definitely.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And my question is, how long is this mine
still in operation? I remember you were going to have an accelerated
type of a procedure, but I don't know -- that was before the economy
dropped.
MR. JONES: You know, obviously -- obviously, you know, the
most efficient way to do this is to pre-blast and you blast ahead, create
your stockpiles and have plenty of material there. So, you know.,
some -- you may not get a job for a week, then you may get one for
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October 13, 2009
200,000 tons, but you better have it on there, you know, because you
don't want to be, you know, trying to catch up.
Unfortunately, though, you know, one blast event costs me
$20,000 to have them come out and do one blast. So, you know, to try
to pre-blast when I don't know when I'll ever move that material or sell
that material is really now the issue.
We had some early work going on early in the summer. We had
a nice job, so we had some cash flow where we were able to try to
blast. And you know, we've blasted since last September, I think, 39
times. You know, we blasted quite a few bid in early summer. I
didn't blast at all in September because that job finished and, you
know, I got more of the material now than, you know, I think I'm
going to move in the next three months.
You know, obviously if we can get ahead, you know, and the
jobs start coming, I'm blasting. We're still moving east to west, you
know, southeast to northwest, away from the two, you know,
populated sides of the mine. We're still digging that way. Still
blasting. We're still using the lower number, multiple blasts. We've
experimented even with the way we detonate the blast. As opposed to
doing it linear and going all the way through and sending all the waves
one way, we've -- I've experimented sending it two different ways to --
just to try to disseminate it more.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: But how long are you still going to be at
this mine?
MR. JONES: I wish like all get-out that I could answer that
question today. I would like to tell you in two years, but it's all, you
know, supply and demand, you know. And right now, you kno"T,
things are as slow as we've ever seen them and, you know --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Did we have a drop-dead date when we
struck this contract with you?
MR. JONES: No.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coletta?
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. I do recognize the fact
that you've been trying your very best, but we do have three people
here that have concerns that, when you listen to them, they haven't
been answered, and they, for what they say, I've got to listen to them.
And, you know, we've got to go forward with the engineer on their
reports.
Now, this thing here would be -- the next time that it would be
scheduled to come before us would be two years away; however, with
that said, earlier I read into the record what's in this, and it gives us
every right in the world if we get a number of complaints and they
don't seem to be resolved in a timely fashion, we can bring it back
before this commission at any point in time.
Okay. And the second part is, is besides getting to -- having the
engineers go out there, Commissioner Fiala's suggestion -- and I thank
you for that -- with you, I'd like to arrange some meetings with some
of the residents there that have some issues and start the dialogue
.
gOIng.
You did such a wonderful job in the past. And I'll be honest with
you, until you brought this forward, I went something like about six,
nine months without a single complaint. It doesn't mean that there
weren't people out there that were happy with everything, but it took --
in fact, this was scheduled to come before us the last time, up until the
point in time I got a phone call that the meeting was improperly
documented on a notice that the county sent out mentioned Thursday
instead of Tuesday -- until I got that phone call, I haven't heard fi'om
anybody. And since then, I've heard from a couple of people, and
even a couple of people give reason for concern.
So will you be willing, after these engineer reports come out and
you work with them, that we arrange to have some meetings at that
point in time?
MR. JONES: Like I said, I'm completely committed to my
good-neighbor policy. Always have been.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And you acknowledge the fact
that within this document there is all sorts of reasons that this
commission can call it back for concern at any point in time and they
don't have to wait for two years?
MR. JONES: That's been my argument the whole -- one of the
conditions is that, you know, I am beholden to doing -- following my
conditions or you have that right.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. And under those
conditions, I'll make the motion that we give you reprieve and allow
you to continue forward with the idea that we're going to resolve any
problems that are out there, and the possibility for recall at any
moment in time could be a possibility.
MR. JONES: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Second the motion.
MR. ANDERSON: Madam Chairman?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
MR. ANDERSON: May I? With regard to the question about
the community fund, I had a thought here. Since we're going to be
back here in two years, would you waive payments into that fund until
we come back in two years and then revisit it? Hopefully we'll all be
fat, dumb, and happy and wealthy.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Bruce, I'd love to accommodate
you right up front right at this moment in time. The problem is is this
wasn't advertised. I have no idea how the residents feel about this.
And this was one of the increment parts of the agreement in the
beginning.
I sympathize with where you are. And this is one of the reasons
why I want to be meeting with them, to be able to see how they feel.
We can't poll them now. We don't have enough people that can speak
on that. That, and I'd also like to talk to them about the idea of having
that in there for two years because I want the right to be able to recall
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October 13, 2009
you anytime. I have it, and I want to make sure everybody
understands it, that we don't have to wait two years, so we might be
revisiting that too.
Possibly we can do something with a draft from this commission
that we can bring those two items back for consideration if we have
the support of the residents to do so; is that okay?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Uh-huh.
Yes, Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Let me explain what these funds
have been used for. $10,000 was for supplement -- to be used to
supplement after-school transportation programs. Has nothing to do
with the mine. That is at the high school level.
The Estates -- there's a fundraiser annual carnival that $2,000 was
given for that event. Has nothing to do with this operation. And then
5,000 to Estates Elementary for purchasing a multi-functional
copier/printer/fax machine.
You know, what are we doing here? I mean, it should be tied to
the use of the conditional use, and that's mining. If it's -- if the issue is
noise, then it should be abatement of noise. If the issue is dust, it
should be used for abatement of dust. And that should be a part of the
condition of approval. You use it for other things, it's just government
exaction. It has nothing to do with the operation.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I believe I remember when this first went
into effect, and what we said was -- and the community seemed to
agree, that they would put aside money as a community effort to do
things for the community, understanding that the community would
have to be living with the noise and the dust and so forth from the
mine, and this is their way of saying, thanks a lot for putting up \vith
us, and we'll -- you know, we'll put this money aside for you to spend,
you know, whether it be for your children or a playground or school or
whatever it was.
It had nothing to do at all with -- I mean, it was a community
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effort. It was a community fund, and Jones Mine was, from what I
remember, very agreeable to do that because they realized it was a
disruption.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are we going to do that to every
petition, planning petition?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, no, that's a very serious
question, Commissioner Fiala, and you're discounting it and that's --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No, I don't think I am at all.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- wrong. That's very wrong for
anybody to do so.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I don't think I am.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We need to be consistent, not
only personally, but as a board. If we're going to do that -- first of all
we need to find out if it's legal to do so. And if it's legal, we ought to
be consistent and do it to every body.
MR. KLATZKOW: Commissioner, my recollection of what
happened is that you had a room full of angry people here who were
opposing the mine to begin with. At the time business was bustling,
and one of the ways the mine owner was able to get the support of the
community was this promise of community help.
Would we be doing this again in today's environment? I doubt it.
But back then, that's what everybody agreed to. It wasn't an exaction.
The mine owner was happy to do it back then in order get his
conditional use.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So just to complete this is, it
wasn't suggested by us; it was suggested by the applicant? Mr.
Anderson?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I don't remember.
MR. ANDERSON: My memory fails me.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Bruce, I think--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Then I need to drop it then,
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October 13, 2009
right? Is that what you're saying?
MR. ANDERSON: No, no, no, no, no. I don't remember
volunteering it. It might have occurred under those circumstances. I
hate to use the E word, but --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Maybe they came up with it at a
community meeting or neighborhood information meeting or
something? You know, I don't know how it all came up.
MR. ANDERSON: I don't really remember--
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Me neither.
MR. ANDERSON: -- for sure. I do know it was Commissioner
Coletta's idea though.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
MR. ANDERSON: I certainly don't want to take credit for it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta, you're next?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I think we've pretty well
worked this subject to death. And no two conditions are alike, so you
-- at different times something might kick in that it wouldn't for
everything. You can't play across the board and say this condition is
-- there maybe might be some similarities.
But I mean, you've got to remember, you've got an earth mine in
a populated area, which is quite a bit different than some of the other
ones we've seen out there. So what took place at that time was an
agreement. It wouldn't have happened without it. That was one of the
pivot points that allowed this commission to go forward that there was
going to be something in the way of compensation for the residents
that are out there.
So at this point in time, my motion stands, and I'm going to have
that meeting with the residents. And in the end, we're going to come
up with something hopefully that works for everyone.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We have a motion on the floor and
a second. Do you know who the second was? It was me.
MS. FILSON: It was you.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Tricky question.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by -- yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Before you do that, would you
clarify the motion and tell me whether or not it is to extend the permit
of the mine or with certain conditions?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No. I think the -- okay. Let me
give it a try again. It's to extend the permit of the mine for two years
with the understanding that within this document we have the right of
recall at any point in time for various reasons, so it's not exactly a
two-year thing, and also, too, with the understanding that the engineer
will be implemented where necessary.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But ifthere're going to be reasons
that we can terminate the permit, they should be spelled out in the
agreement.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: They already are in the original
agreement, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But you said for any reason.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Oh, yeah. You want me to read
them back, sir?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No. If you are saying that we will
retain the current conditions for termination of the permit that are in
the existing permit but we'll extend it for two years under those same
conditions --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- then I understand it and I would
support it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And that's -- and forgive me.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I was trying to give some level
of comfort to everybody in this room, the fact that we do have a right
of recall, and if that -- including that particular language upset you in
some way, if I never say it, it's still there, but I had said it, so I'm fine
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October 13, 2009
with it.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Did that clarify the motion?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Whatever is in the agreement
prevails.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That sounds like--
COMMISSIONER COYLE: A local term.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Very good. I'm proud of you.
Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: 5-0. Thank you.
Item #8A
ORDINANCE 2009-53: PUDZ-2008-AR-12773, COLLIER
RATTLESNAKE INC., REPRESENTED BY D. WAYNE
ARNOLD, AICP, OF Q. GRADY MINOR INC. AND RICH
YOV ANOVICH, OF COLEMAN, YOV ANOVICH & KOESTER,
P.A., A PUD REZONE FROM RURAL AGRICULTURAL (A) TO
MIXED-USE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (MPUD) TO BE
KNOWN AS THE GOOD TURN CENTER MPUD. THE MPlJD
PROPOSES A MAXIMUM OF 100,000 SQUARE FEET OF
COMMERCIAL LAND USES AND/OR A VARIETY OF
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October 13,2009
SKILLED NURSING CARE FACILITIES USES WITH A
MAXIMUM OF 200 UNITS ON 9.5 ACRES. THE SUBJECT
PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON THE EAST SIDE OF COLLIER
BOULEVARD, APPROXIMATELY 660 FEET NORTH OF
RATTLESNAKE HAMMOCK ROAD SECTION 14, TOWNSHIP
50 SOUTH AND RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA - ADOPTED W/AMENDMENTS
MR.OCHS: Madam Chair, that takes you to Item 8A. This
items requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte disclosure
be provided by commission members. Petition
PUDZ-2008-AR-12773. It's Collier Rattlesnake, Inc., represented by
D. Wayne Arnold, AICP, ofQ. Grady Minor, Inc., and Richard
Y ovanovich of Coleman, Y ovanovich and Koester, P .A., is requesting
a PUD rezone from rural agricultural A to mixed-use planned unit
development, MPUD, to be known as the Good Turn Center MPUD.
The MPUD proposes a maximum of 100,000 square feet of
commercial land uses and/or a variety of skilled nursing care facilities
uses with a maximum of200 units on 9.5 acres.
The subject property is located on the east side of Collier
Boulevard, approximately 660 feet north of Rattlesnake Hammock
Road, Section 14, Township 50 south, and Range 26 east, Collier
County, Florida.
MS. ASHTON: Commissioners, if I may begin for a moment.
F or the record, Heidi Ashton, Assistant County Attorney. I don't need
to be sworn in, but I just want to correct the record. Maybe we could
do the ex parte after I read this in. Would that be okay?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure, that's fine.
MS. ASHTON: Or would you prefer to do the ex parte first?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It doesn't make any difference, as long as
you don't need to be sworn in, but we just have to go through that
process.
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October 13, 2009
MS. ASHTON: Okay. A week ago staff asked me to get them a
new ordinance, and I inadvertently attached the wrong exhibit. So I
have to read into the record the changes. The copy you received 'was a
copy that went to the Planning Commission before they made their
changes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll pass them out. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Will you be able to tell us what those --
MS. ASHTON : Yeah. I'm handing you -- I'm passing out the
exhibit, and I'll read through each of the pages. I've highlighted ,vhere
the language was changed, and I've handwritten a notation where there
were some deletions.
The first one is on Page 3 of Exhibit A. It's under Item 13, eating
and drinking places. The language was modified at the end, and you'll
see the highlighted language which says, outdoor seating with no
amplified music or televisions.
The next one is on Page 4. It's, again, highlighted under Section
22 under SIC code industry number 5735. There's some additional
language specifically excluding adult-oriented sales or rentals.
On Page 5 under Item 8, there were three categories that were
deleted, and that was 5983, fuel oil dealers; 5984, liquefied petroleum
gas dealers; and 5989, fuel dealers.
On Page 7, there was some language that was deleted. Under
principal structures, maximum height, under both categories for tract
-- C tract and CF tract, under both the zoned height and actual height,
the language "three stories over parking" was deleted.
And the last change is on Page 10. Item lC was not included in
your package, and that reads, "Any combination of uses listed in
Exhibit A of this document may be proposed within this development
but shall be limited to a maximum combined weekday p.m. peak-hour
generation of 626 total project trips up to 478 net new external trips."
And those are the corrections. This was what was approved by
the CCPC, and I apologize for the mistake.
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October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you so much for bringing that to
our attention.
Now, would everybody who wishes to speak on this subject,
please rise and be sworn in.
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And Commissioners, let's please declare
ex parte. We'll start again with you, Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I have only the Planning
Commission staff report that I have reviewed.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. I've had some
correspondence on this and also talked with staff and then what we
just discussed here in open dialogue in regard to what's been added.
That's it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The staffs report to the Planning
Commission. That's the only ex parte that I have. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. I had meetings with the
petitioner's agents, correspondence, talked to Mark Strain, and talked
to our staff.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And I met with Rich Yovanovich,
I talked with various staff members, I emailed two of the Planning
Commissioners, I talked with people at Naples Lakes to get their
input, and I talked with some people from East Naples Civic
Association.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Are we ready?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We're ready.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Good afternoon. For the record, Rich
Y ovanovich on behalf of the petitioner.
With me today is Ken O'Leary, who represents the property
owner; as well as Wayne Arnold, who's the professional planner on
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October 13, 2009
the project; and Ted Triesch; who's the transportation consultant on
the project.
As you can see from your executive summary, the Planning
Commission originally voted 6-1 in favor of this project. During their
consent agenda, a discussion -- the planning commissioner who had
voted against the project had expressed that if she were given the
opportunity, she would have changed her vote to vote in favor of the
proj ect, but unfortunately, it was too late to make that change, so we
were placed on the origin- -- we were placed on the regular agenda.
The request is to rezone approximately nine-and-a-half acres
that's at the intersection of Rattlesnake Hammock and Collier
Boulevard to 100,000 square feet of retail and/or senior housing not to
exceed 200 units.
When we met with Commissioner Fiala, there was, I think, some
confusion related to the request, and she had requested that we make
some clarifications to the PUD document to make sure that certain
uses that we didn't ask for could not ever be asked for in the future
because of some ambiguity in the way that our project was written up,
and someone in the future might argue would be an allowed -- would
be allowable for some of the uses.
So what I'm going to put on the visualizer is the section dealing
with prohibited uses that would be both applicable to the C tract as
well as the community facility tract for the project.
And then a second concern came up was, it's related to the senior
housing, were we, in fact, committing to senior housing. So we had
agreed to also put in the standard types of amenities that we have
worked our way through over the last several senior housing petitions
to include those in the PUD document.
And I'll also put those up on the visualizer that I hope will clarify
the record as to what we're requesting, and then we'll be open to
answer any questions you may have regarding the project.
As you can see on what would be Page 6 of the ordinance, I
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October 13, 2009
guess, that Heidi handed out today, we have added a section called
prohibited uses to the -- it's a new section, C, to the C tract on the
property. And Leo is pointing to that. And those prohibited uses
would prohibit residential-care facilities, including soup kitchens,
homeless shelters, alcohol and drug rehabilitation centers, homes for
the emotionally disturbed, juvenile correction homes, orphanages and
self-help groups, as well as certain types of hospitals, like psychiatric
hospitals, specialty hospitals, except psychiatric; there's a whole other
list of different types of hospitals. And then specialty outpatient
facilities not elsewhere classified. So those would be -- specifically
become prohibited uses on the C tract.
And then we would, on the CF tract, which is where senior
housing can occur, we've added the standard required amenities that
would go with senior housing, such as providing transportation,
providing dining facilities, providing a wellness center, all those types
of uses that we've added to this ordinance to make sure that this was
just not a disguised multi-family project. It was, in fact, senior
housing.
And we also included as Section D, the prohibited uses I've just
read to you on the other tract would also be prohibited on this tract as
well.
We've run all of these changes by Melissa Zone and Susan
Istenes, so I think they're comfortable with the revisions we're
proposing to clarify some potential misunderstanding in the future
regarding allowed uses on the property. We'd like to add those
changes to the ordinance.
And with that, we would request that the Board of County
Commissioners approve the ordinance consistent with staff
recommendations as well as the recommendations from the Planning
Commission.
If there are any other specific questions regarding the project, I'd
happy to answer them, but it seemed to be, that was one of the issues
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October 13, 2009
that came up.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Were these vetted at the Planning
Commission?
MR. YOV ANOVICH: The actual use of a senior housing ,vas,
and the --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: But these provisions that have
been, that you --
MR. YOV ANOVICH: The Planning Commission didn't ask us
to include those provisions. We -- it didn't come up as, Rich, you're
doing senior housing, where are the conditions we've seen in other
senior housing zoning ordinances. The Planning Commission didn't
raise those issues.
The issue came up for the first time when I met with
Commissioner Fiala yesterday and she said, Rich, how do I really
know this is senior housing. I said, well, why don't we include the
stipulations we've done in other projects.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'm a little -- I don't feel very
comfortable when we do changes on the fly, and you bring it to us the
next day and it hasn't been vetted by the Planning Commission. I
respect what the Planning Commission does, and I'm not sure if there
-- if there's a hidden agenda on this thing or if everything is, you
know, up front.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Well--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'm a little concerned about, all of a
sudden, we start making changes in regards to this after I've sat down
on the weekend and prepared for all this, and then all of a sudden we
have changes put before us.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Well, the only thing I could say is the
Planning Commission didn't deem it necessary when we went through
the Planning Commission to include these provisions. So we're
actually making it stronger than what the Planning Commission had
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October 13, 2009
actually previously approved.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I guess where I'm going with this,
Rich, is I'm concerned when you -- when all this information is put
together on our agenda and it hasn't been addressed at the time before
we get the information and then all of a sudden we get it here at the
meeting, and we haven't had really good time to digest to see how this
-- if it has any conflicts with other things that are in this particular
agenda on this particular item.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Let me -- let me jump in here if I may
because this is -- is my doing.
One of the things your planning commissioner, Donna Caron,
was concerned about was that this was just a flipping -- you know, a
flip type of a thing. That's why she didn't vote for it in the first place
because she knew that it was -- the reason it was so nebulous, the
reason it was so vague was because they were just trying to get some
permitting through, but then -- then sell it.
And when I saw some of these things, for instance, 200
institutional group housing units, that scared me. When there was -- it
said they were going to have no outdoor amenities. Well, here w'e
were just approving two -- two different assisted living facilities, one
was Sienna Lakes, and the other one was Taormina, and they all had
outdoor facilities, like swimming pools and so forth. If this is an
assisted living, why didn't they? What was really going on here, and it
concerned me greatly.
And then it said it would be in keeping with the surrounding
neighborhood, and the surrounding neighborhood was Pastor
Mallory's homeless shelter, and that really scared me. And I thought,
what are we doing here? What are we actually doing?
If we're going to just permit something so that then they can sell
it to somebody else, we better put some limitations in here for the
surrounding neighbors, and so that was my doing.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, Commissioner Fiala, I'm not
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October 13, 2009
here taking you to the woodshed. I'm just concerned that some of
these things should have been addressed earlier on.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And I appreciate you taking the
movement to address these issues before it was really voted on. I~ut
my concern is bringing it here the 11 th hour, okay. I believe that the
petitioner should have worked on this and maybe called you and said,
hey, is there any issues that you have in regards to this particular
project since it's in your area, okay. That -- what I'm saying is, if there
was some concerns, then they should have been addressed prior to us
getting the information here at the meeting.
You know, we -- what we're trying to do is make sure that all the
stuff that's presented to us is given to us in a time frame where we can
sit down, read it and digest it. And we had a point in time when there
was a lot of people that would bring stuff here during the meeting and
say, hey, here's some of the changes we have incorporated or whatever
else, and we didn't have time to sit down and go through all of the
documentation that was presented to us. So we just want to make sure
that it doesn't start again.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I have two commissioners on deck, one
Coletta, one Coyle, but we haven't heard from staff yet. Would you
like to wait until after we hear from staff?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: What's staff going to say?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, we don't know until we bring them
up to the microphone.
Okay, Melissa?
MS. ZONE: It's a warm introduction. Melissa Zone, Principal
Planner with the Department of Zoning and Land Development.
Commissioner Coletta -- or Coyle, not much to report. The
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October 13,2009
changes that we reviewed that the petitioner offered to us yesterday
afternoon tend to be consistent with what the Planning Commission
and this board has reviewed in the past year, so it wasn't vetted
through the Planning Commission. You know, staffwill follow your
direction.
But in terms of providing amenities to those who are in the
assisted living housing, I don't know if taking it through the Planning
Commission is something that is needed or not, but I understand we
could be setting a precedence to do -- allow last-minute changes,
which, I think, would become an annoyance to this board and staff in
the future.
But if you have any questions of me, I'd be happy to address
them for you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I know I do. I noticed when the -- when
this went -- just before it came to us, they removed the three stories
over parking provision.
MS. ZONE: Planning Commission had seen that, they just
wanted to have it at a certain height. As Heidi Ashton mentioned, the
wrong document got put into Novice, but that -- what she passed out
to you was the ordinance, PUD ordinance and resolution -- or exhibits
that the Planning Commission reviewed per their motion and approved
at the consent agenda.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So Planning Commission's seen
that.
MS. ZONE: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And then -- and the other thing is, the
maximum number of independent living units can be up to 60 percent,
but then the rest have to be assisted living. Is there some way to work
that in there to make sure that what we're talking about is an assisted
living facility or --
MS. ZONE: Certainly. And if you have a ratio that you would
like to offer and discuss with the applicants, I will make sure that I
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October 13, 2009
work with the County Attorney's Office to make sure that's
incorporated into the PUD ordinance exhibits.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Looks like Rich is frowning.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Well, I didn't -- that's the first time I'd
heard a 60 percent number.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, okay.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: That's why -- that was a surprise, not a
frown. It was a -- that's all.
The way we have -- this is senior housing, and we have the
option of providing independent, assisted, skilled nursing or any
combination of these that results in no more than 200 units. There's
not a specific ratio of how many independent we have to have versus
how many assisted living units we have to have. That's not -- that's
not a requirement.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: But this can't be then turned into all just
multifamily something?
MR. YOV ANOVICH: It cannot be -- no, it can't be multifamily,
and that's why we added these other conditions that you've seen in
other senior housing projects. Even senior housing projects that were
100 percent independent living because the concern was, are you
really going to keep the traffic off the road.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Right.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Are you -- what are you providing them
so they won't get on the road? Central dining has been one of the:
things, transportation has been another, providing a wellness center,
providing for entertainment on site to keep people -- because it has the
__ in these senior housing communities, they really don't travel. They
like to live in an apartment-style unit, but they really stay put and
don't really travel.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well-- and that's why I was pushing it so
much because it was so vague.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Sure.
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October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I mean, it could have been absolutely
anything. There were never -- there weren't even any amenities
mentioned. So that's why I was trying to tighten it up a little bit to
know exactly what we are talking about.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Right. And as Commissioner Fiala
knows, we worked very closely and had multiple meetings with the
Naples Lakes community to arrive at a PUD document that they were
comfortable in, and I think that's why the Planning Commission, you
know, ultimately recommended unanimously to approve the PUD, and
there really wasn't focus by the Planning Commission on these
amenities. And they came up and we met, you know, as we always
meet, and we react to comments from commissioners and try to make
the document better.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, thank you.
One thing that's got me a little bit concerned has to do with the
proximity of this to Florida Sports Park and the possible problems
with noise that may arise from Florida Sports Park, especially for a
senior-type living center, you know, even though they're only
operating basically three times a year. Has this been taken into
consideration or has it been discussed?
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Well, there really hasn't been a lot of
concern on our part regarding the proximity of Florida Sports Park
because of the limited number of times a year they actually hold
events. So, you know, for the few times that it would, if it was an
inconvenience to the residents, it's basically daytime operations. We
didn't see that as going to be a problem to a senior housing project if
one is built on that site.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Mr. Klatzkow, should there be
something in the agreement that recognizes the existence of Florida
Sports Park?
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October 13, 2009
MR. KLATZKOW: We actually have another development
that's going through the review process that's going to be even closer
to the Florida Sports Park, and we'll probably be coming back to this
board with a proposed amendment to the noise ordinance, which
would exempt them for a couple of times per year. Sort of like what
we do at the Immokalee Race Track.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Can we do that with this
particular project at this time?
MR. KLATZKOW: I think the cleanest way to do it is with the
noise ordinance rather than on an individual project-by-project basis.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. That's the only
question I had. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'd like to have staff answer some
questions for me. Could you please go through for me the residential
densities of all of the properties on all sides of this particular project?
MS. ZONE: Let me grab -- I don't have them right offhand. I
could find that for you with -- and pull it up for the density if it's like
three -- three dwelling units per acre; is that what you're asking?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's what I'm asking. Okay.
How quickly can you get that?
MS. ZONE: Well, I'm sure I have access to a staff computer and
could probably pull it up. Would take me about 15 minutes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We're going to need to take a break pretty
soon anyway.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Why don't we -- yeah, if
you want to do a break, I can wait till after the break to get them.
MS. ZONE: I'll pull up all of them.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But in addition to that, I'd like to
understand the heights of the buildings of adjacent properties. I'd like
to know whether or not -- how many stories these buildings are going
to be now that it's been changed -- I guess the parking on the first level
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October 13, 2009
has been removed.
MS. ZONE: Right.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Does that mean they're going to be
what, four stories of apartments?
MS. ZONE: I -- yeah. I don't know how their design plan is
because they're not in for Site Development Plan, but that was taken
out during Planning Commission, and they just wanted to cap it at 45
feet, but that the actual height is not to exceed 55 feet.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MS. ZONE: But--
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And -- okay. And if that's three
stories, then that means 15 feet for each story plus a roof. So what's
going on? Okay.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: I can answer that if you want.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That depends on the chair, if she
wants to have the break now or let you answer that question and then
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure. Answer that question.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Commissioner, we didn't have a problem
with leaving the three stories over parking in the document so you
would know it would be three residential floors for a total of four
stories, but the Planning Commission's concern -- they said, listen,
height is height. Just tell us what the height is. You don't really need
to tell us how you're breaking up the envelope within that height, so
that's why the three stories over parking came out. If you're more
comfortable putting three stories over parking back in within that
height, we're fine with that either way.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'd be more comfortable just having
three stories of residences or two stories over parking.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'd be a lot more comfortable with
that, but nevertheless. It's very uncomfortable for me to go through a
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October 13, 2009
rezoning process without having any understanding of the nature of
the structures that you're going to put on it. Building elevations would
be good even if they're merely conceptual, but it's too late to deal with
that right now.
But I am concerned about the compatibility of the development
with other developments in the area, and 20 -- roughly 21 units per
acre is an extremely high density. And I just see too many of these
things coming through here, and I don't see enough thought being
given to the overall density. So that's why I'm asking those questions.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: And I just put up the zoning map for help
assisting in the analysis of compatibility. As you can see, we're next
to, I think it's C-5 -- C-5 and C-4 is our neighbors to the north, and our
neighbor to the south is another commercial PUD.
And the confusion with senior housing and density is because
senior housing is really addressed in a floor-area-ratio concept, not a
per-unit per-acre concept, and that's why it sounds like it's so much
from an intensity standpoint, but from what you'll typically see in a
senior housing project is you'll see densities in the, basically,
25-units-per-acre range because of -- in order to support the amenities
that go with them, you can't really make them work at your typical
four-unit-per-acre density.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, the problem with that is that
when you do that on such a small piece of acreage, you have to build
up. That means you have to have elevators particularly for the elderly
population. If you have an emergency, it's a very difficult problem
evacuating people without the elevators operating. So, you know,
those are the things that I'm concerned about.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay, particularly when you're
talking about people as old as I am.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Well, you're up there, but you're not our
average age yet.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Just scored some points, didn't he?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Halas, and then
we'll take a break.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Oh, okay. So you're going to
answer -- we're going to get the other part of my answer after the
break.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah. When we come back from break,
Melissa will have that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: This is for Rich.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Oh, I'm sorry. I thought we were going
to the break. My apologies.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: My concerns are, how many more
of these assisted living care places do you think are going to be
coming before us here?
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Well, I think this is a natural location
when you're this close to the hospital.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No. I mean, how many more are
going to be coming before us?
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Well, I've got one. I've got one that I
continued from a couple of weeks ago, and that's a continuing care
retirement community which will have the full range of services.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I guess where I'm going with this,
this seems to be a deluge of these particular things that are coming
before us, and I'm not sure if when we get all these things permitted if
it's going to be like everything else, that we over-permit stuff like this
and you don't have any way to fill it. Either that or -- because there's
going to be an awful lot of old people that are going to want to move
into these things, and if you've got way too much than there's people
there, how's anybody going to make a go at it?
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Well, the market's going to dictate
whether it actually, in fact, gets built. Remember, it's not -- we're not
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October 13, 2009
asking for just senior housing here. That's one of the options on this
particular piece of property . We're also asking for retail.
So the market's going to dictate what is the end project that will
get built here or anywhere else in the county. I mean, you've got
multiple PUDs that go through the process that have the full range of
housing types from --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: But this seems to be the buzz word
right now.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: And there's no question about that,
Commissioner Halas. People are getting older, and this is one of the
markets that is still out there that the development industry is saying is
a market that makes financial sense.
Will every one of the projects that go through here asking for
senior housing get built as senior housing? Probably not, but it is --
this is -- if you look at this location, as close as it is to the hospital,
you know, it's kind of a natural for the location. And it will be project
by project.
But you're right, you're going to see several PUDs coming
through the process saying, hey, let's add this as a potential use
because there is a market for it right now. And will they all get built
as senior housing, probably not, but it is something that there is a
market for right now in this economy. There's certainly not a market
for your plain old vanilla condominium project.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So I guess when they say that
Naples is God's waiting room, they really mean it?
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Well, it's -- it is for a lot of people.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Now, Commissioner Halas, that's -- this is
why I was actually tackling this thing, because if it doesn't get built as
this, I wanted to make sure that it would be something that would be
complementary or harmonious with the surrounding neighborhoods,
and that was my point exactly.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Good for you.
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October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
We will take a break. We'll be back at 3 o'clock. Oh, well --
MR. OCHS: Three o'clock.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Three o'clock.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. 3:03?
(A brief recess was had.)
MR.OCHS: Madam Chair, you have a live mike.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Now, Melissa, you're back with us
and you were going to give Commissioner Halas -- or Commissioner
Coy Ie --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Coyle.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I forget which one asked it already.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'm going to put a sign up here
.
agaIn.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No, I know your name today.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah. I don't usually, but today I do.
MS. ZONE: Melissa Zone, Principal Planner with the
Department of Zoning and Land Development.
Leo, if you could zoom into this area, to the right. I'm going to
point to the certain areas and then tell you the height and density that
was approved.
This is the subject property. It's ag., rural agriculture. That's
currently under rural agriculture, it is zoned. The approved height
would be, under the LDC, is 35 feet.
Hammock Park Commerce --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Wait, wait, wait a minute.
MS. ZONE: Sorry.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You said as approved over the
PUD it would be 35 feet?
MS. ZONE: No, no, no, as rural agriculture --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Oh, okay.
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October 13, 2009
MS. ZONE: -- as it stands today, would be 35 feet as agriculture.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MS. ZONE: What they're proposing is 45 feet, 55 feet zoned, or
actual height.
Then what we have here is Hammock Park Commerce Center
PUD, and this PUD was approved for 50 feet in height with the
maximum of 160,000 commercial square feet of commercial space.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. And that's all that was going
to be in there is 160,000 square feet of commercial space?
MS. ZONE: Correct, nothing else. It's commercial PUD. This is
vacant.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And it looks like it's about twice
the size of parcel A.
MS. ZONE: It's 20 acres.
MR. ARNOLD: It is.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. And it has 60 percent more
commercial space than they're requesting in parcel A, but it has 200
additional units of residential units.
MS. ZONE: Right. When the applicant -- I recall because I was
a planner on Hammock Park. When that came in, Rattlesnake
Hammock Road was not completely built, and so they had agreed to
limit their commercial square footage because of that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Let's go to the top.
MS. ZONE: Okay. So C5, it's just standard zoning of C5. That
is 35 feet, and both of these parcels are currently vacant.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Which one is Reverend
Mallory's property?
MS. ZONE: There is a church up here.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes, okay.
MS. ZONE: But I'm not sure which parcel that is.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: All right. It might be the one north
ofC3, but that's okay.
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October 13, 2009
MR. YOV ANOVICH: It is.
MS. ZONE: Right.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: What's -- how about across the
street?
MS. ZONE: Now -- oh. Well, C3 -- just to finish on this side --
C3 is -- C3 zoning is for 50 feet, the standard zoning.
Then what you have here is the Naples Lake Country Club PUD.
And in there they have their multifamily, is -- was approved for four
stories above the flood elevation -- minimum flood elevation and two
stories -- for their single-family homes it's two stories over the
minimum flood elevation, but they do not actually give a height. They
talk about stories.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. How about the density?
MS. ZONE: The density for that is 1.67 dwelling units per acre.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: How about their multifamily?
MS. ZONE: That's. Combined?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Oh, it's combined.
MS. ZONE: Correct.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Can you estimate the breakout?
MS. ZONE: You know, I don't. I mean, I don't have that. I'm
sorry .
COMMISSIONER COYLE: All right. So it's 1.5?
MS. ZONE: 1.67 dwelling units per acre.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: 1.67 units per acre, and the one
we're talking about is almost 20 units per acre?
MS. ZONE: Correct.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: A little more than 20 units per acre,
okay.
MS. ZONE: And then Sierra Meadows is 50 feet, which is a
commercial development.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Now, when you -- let's
make sure we're talking about the same figure, the same definitions.
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October 13, 2009
When you talk about zoned height, actual height, what are you really
talking about?
MS. ZONE: Well, there's the zoned height, which it goes to, I
believe it's -- if I get this correct -- and I'm looking back at my
administrator -- but there is the -- where this -- the top of the ceiling
before you get to the peak of --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes. It doesn't include the peak of
the roof.
MS. ZONE: Correct.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MS. ZONE: But then the actual would be the, as Rich always
calls, the tippy-top.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Tippy-top, okay.
MR. SCHMITT: The height of flood elevation.
MS. ZONE: And from the flood -- it's measured from the
minimum flood elevation.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. So the property we're
talking about right now is going to be 55 feet from the flood elevation
to the top of the roof?
MS. ZONE: Correct.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. All right. Then that
answers my question, but it doesn't tell me how many floors that's
going to be.
MS. ZONE: No.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And is that important?
MS. ZONE: If they're being capped at 55 feet, I mean -- imagine
if you're renting there and you don't want 10- foot ceilings in your
home and you would rather see 12, that would be for marketing
purposes, but in terms, for a zoning aspect, you have more control
over the number of the height as opposed to the stories.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: How many stories are you planning
to have, Rich?
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October 13, 2009
MR. YOV ANOVICH: We're at four, but remember the zoned
height --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Four?
MR. YOV ANOVICH: It would be three stories over parking is
what our original request was; 45 feet zoned height, 55 feet tippy-top.
So when you're really talking floor to the top ceiling, you're talking
about -- and with the slope of a roof, you're not actually talking --
what would that be? What would four into -- four into 45 would be 11
feet. It's actually a little less than that, because --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Eleven and a quarter.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: It would be 11 and a quarter max, but if
you've got a sloped roof, you've got -- you actually have to bring that
number down a little.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, but you'll build a flat roof
and cram another floor in there.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Well, I would have 11 foot floor to
ceiling is what it would be to fit within that 45 feet, then the roof on
top would get you that tippy-top of 55.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So you're going to have the parking
on the bottom floor anyway, right?
MR. YOV ANOVICH: It would be parking and then three
residential floors --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: -- was -- that was the original request
within that 45 feet of zoned and 55 feet of actual.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Which I think is comparable to what's
around it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I had a couple questions, too,
when you're finished. Commissioner Coyle just asked about the
height. And you said, from flood elevation. How high is flood
elevation from street level, just out of curiosity?
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October 13, 2009
MR. YOV ANOVICH: See, but the -- the 55 feet though is not
measured from flood elevation. That's measured from crown of the
road.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, okay.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: That's where you catch that is because,
you know, with flood elevation, some parts of the county you're going
up 12, 15 feet before you start measuring zoned height, but we would
catch that through the calculation of actual height.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Right. Thank you. And then the second
question I had was, Commissioner Coletta had spoken about noise
level and so forth, especially from swamp buggy, and we were talking
about three events a year, but what we didn't mention was their
weekly concerts on Friday nights, and they can be pretty loud.
And so, when we're talking about noise ordinances and
everything, we probably have to be conscientious about that.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: I think -- I think so, that swamp buggy
doesn't, you know, get the, you know, the potential brunt of our people
moving in. Perhaps we should agree to provide a disclosure to our
residents that swamp buggy is our neighbor to the north and that they
have outdoor events, you know, throughout the year, and we could
provide that disclosure, so nobody who is living in our facility could
say, we didn't know about swamp buggy. And then you don't have to
worry about the -- our creating problems for swamp buggy.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And the rifle range isn't active
anymore, so you won't have to worry about all the shooting that goes
on, except at night.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And the last thing I wanted to mention --
I'll just move right past that and talk about -- somebody mentioned the
figures, the analyses that were brought out, and I just -- I just wanted
to throw in that the analysis that was given by Fishkind was based on
2005 figures that's -- and that's where it said that we needed
commercial in the area, and then the report was prepared in 2007.
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October 13,2009
And, of course, it's a whole different market right now.
So I just thought I'd throw that in there. I think that was you,
Commissioner Halas, asking about the analysis.
Okay. So now we've discussed this thoroughly. Anybody have --
and we have all of the things on the record as far as the modifications
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Right.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- and so forth, everything's in place. I
feel comfortable with it.
So Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Madam Chair, I make a motion
to approve the ordinance, the one that was handed out today by H.eidi
Ashton with the amendments discussed here today.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And I'll second.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And second by Commissioner
Coletta. Did you need to put anything on the record, Melissa?
MS. ZONE: I just wanted a clarification. Are we also including
__ we know that it's the intent of the developer to have three stories
over parking, but it's not in the PUD document. Is that something that
the motion maker would like in or to leave it as is?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I think Commissioner Coyle's
comments were assuming that there's going to be just one story of
parking, and it could be several stories of parking. So I think the
intent is three stories over one story of parking. That would be the
.
maXImum.
Is that correct, Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. My preference would be to
have two stories over parking, but that's not what they're asking for, so
I'll just vote against it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Now my tummy hurts.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Can you include the fact that
they're going to put a notice in their document, the fact that the Florida
Sports Park exists?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, that's a part of the motion.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: A part of the second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Any further conversation?
Questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. That's a 4-1.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Thank you.
Item #8B
ORDINANCE 2009-54: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION
FIVE, PENAL TIES, OF ORDINANCE 2008-22, THE COLLIER
COUNTY INTERSECTION SAFETY ORDINANCE, IN ORDER
TO ESTABLISH A TIERED CIVIL FINE STRUCTURE FOR
INITIAL AND SUBSEQUENT VIOLATIONS - ADOPTED
MR.OCHS: Madam Chair, that takes us to 8B. That item was
previously 17G and moved to the regular agenda at the request of both
Commissioner Halas and Commissioner Fiala.
It's a recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners
adopts an ordinance amending Section 5, penalties, of ordinance
2008-22, Collier County Intersection Safety Ordinance in order to
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October 13, 2009
establish a tiered civil fine structure for initial and subsequent
violations.
The county attorney, I believe, is going to kick us off here.
MR. KLATZKOW: This is the red light ordinance. The board
had asked the county attorney to come back with a three-tiered civil
fine structure.
I spoke with Mr. Feder, listened to the tape of the board's
discussion, looked at ordinances from other jurisdictions. I'm advised
that 62.50 is the appropriate amount to cover our costs. And after that
-- it was just mathematical-- it would double to $125 for the second
violation, and then $250 for a third violation all within a five-year
period. Bring it back for the board's consideration on, you know, what
your preference is.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You want me to go first?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: The reason that I asked to bring
this back is, my concern is the 62.50. I would think that once the
population is educated -- my concern is, if the 62.50 is going to cover
our costs and also the sheriffs costs in regards to the civil fine that's
involved here.
Obviously the sheriff spends time ad- -- having people administer
to make sure that there is a violation before it's sent out. And my
concern is it that this is not free gratis, that this is actually going to
cost -- really pay for our costs. And I don't know if I've got a true
answer on that.
It might be good if -- when you have 2- or 300 violations, but if
you get down to 50 violations, does it really pay -- does it really pay
our fees here in the county?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. I could just tell you staff told me
that's about the right number.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. That was my only question.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And my two questions were, number one,
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October 13, 2009
is there a way to have a -- one fee? Apparently the one that people are
getting caught at the most is the right turn on red, but the one that's
most dangerous is straight on through, people barreling through red
lights.
Is there a way to -- for people who are going straight on through
to use this -- this recommendation that you've prepared, and right on
red, maybe make it more of a tier, 62.50, 90, and 125, before you start
getting into $250 and $500?
And I say that because my concern is, if I -- especially now.
We've got a lot of winter residents that are going to be coming back to
town as well as tourists who maybe aren't familiar with this -- and
although I have to say Norm Feder started marking it a lot better. You
know, there's a lot more notification now that there is cameras out
there. Still some people might not know it. And I was wondering if
there was a way just to make it more of a tiered thing for right on red.
MR. KLATZKOW: Ma'am, this is your ordinance. I mean--
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We can do anything we please?
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, not anything you can please, but if
you want to bifurcate it between people who simply, I'll just say, blow
through a light -- and I know that was the initial concern -- or people
taking aright-hand turn on red and have different fines for that, that's
fine.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, because we don't notify them for six
weeks, and so maybe somebody who's turning through that right on
red and doesn't realize, even though they think that they've come to
pretty much of a stop, pretty much of a stop isn't a stop, and they
might not realize that they're going to get a ticket and they might do
that, you know, repeatedly, and then they're going to end up, you
know, owning the mortgage on their house before they get the first
notification that they've had a citation, so that's my concern.
I've got a bunch of lights on here. But anyway, you asked for the
reasons we pulled it; that was mine.
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October 13, 2009
And let's see, we started with Commissioner Henning. I don't
remember Coyle or Halas.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I was last.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, Henning was first though.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yep, I was second.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I was next to last, and then Halas
was last.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And I'm Coyle, by the way.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Are you?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, yeah, Coyle. Would you spell that?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes, K-O (sic)--
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, I want to make a motion
then -- hopefully it will pass but probably not, and then I just want to
follow up with something.
Since we were told today that we want to create legislation
supporting red light cameras and allow existing government to be
grandfathered in, and we were told when we adopted this ordinance by
the public that this is not -- this goes against general law, and knowing
that we were elected to protect the U. S. and Florida Constitution --
and the Florida Constitution says, counties not operating under charter
government shall have the power to self-govern as provided by
general or special law.
So knowing that what we're doing is illegal, I'm going to make a
motion that we suspend this ordinance, this red light camera
ordinance.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'll second that for discussion.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coletta?
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, are we talking about, just
the motion that was made?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I have nothing to offer on that. I
have something else I wanted to talk about.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, you talk about anything you please.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Oh, thank you, Commissioner
Fiala. I appreciate that.
I know there's a vast difference of opinion out here about how
this whole thing should be put together. I can't say I agree with
Commissioner Henning on his approach to the whole thing, but
nevertheless, you have a right to express it, and everybody's opinion's
welcome.
And I was the one that originally brought this forward because
my concern was the fairness of it and the fact that my district and your
district and Commissioner Henning's districts especially, we have
people that are economically at a disadvantage at this point in time,
tremendously so.
So the idea being is that we'd able to reduce it down to costs to
get back to that original premise when we came up with it, the fact
that it's not a cash cow. This is supposed to be a tool to be able to get
compliance, to be able to bring the costs down to where its cost gets us
to where we need to be.
Now, the part here that's missing -- and that's why I asked Mr.
Brock if he would come it. And he hasn't been prompted on the
question. I believe he's been prompted by Crystal. But my question
is, is could we make a reimbursement to those people that have
already paid the fine? In other words, if we're talking about reducing
the fine to everyone in the future, it only seems fair that we make a
reimbursement back to those people that had the first offense. Can
that be done, Mr. Brock?
MR. BROCK: I will -- I will answer your question in the
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October 13,2009
following fashion. I am unaware of any prohibition that would
prevent you from doing that specifically. You know, it obviously
would have to have a public purpose, and I would be more than happy
to work through that issue with Mr. Klatzkow and his office.
But, you know -- and I will tell you that your statement that I've
not been prompted -- I had no idea what I was going to be asked
about.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Forgive me, sir.
MR. BROCK: Okay. That's perfectly all right. But I'm unaware
off the top of my head of any prohibition that would prevent the Board
of County Commissioners from making a determination of refunding
that money. I mean, what you've got is you've got a civil violation,
violation of a county ordinance with a civil penalty that had a penalty
provision in it, and now you're wanting to go back and refund what
that ordinance provided for.
I can't think of anything off the top of my head, and I will work
with the County Attorney's Office to ensure that both of our offices do
not have an issue with that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I appreciate that.
MR. BROCK: Does that help?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We haven't reached that point
yet.
MR. BROCK: Right.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: But ifMr -- if Commissioner
Henning's motion fails, I would like to be able to make a motion at
that time.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I think we need to resolve this issue
of illegalities, and since we have both the clerk and our county
attorney here, we should be able to get an answer to that.
Is our ordinance, in fact, illegal?
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, I'll tell you what I told you when this
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October 13,2009
ordinance came here, and that's ultimately this is going to go to the
Florida Supreme Court, and I can't tell you what they're going to do. I
can tell you that numerous communities throughout Florida have
enacted this ordinance. All those county attorneys and those
municipal attorneys believe that it is lawful.
The sheriffs attorney believes that it is lawful. But until, at the
end of the day, the Florida Supreme Court makes a ruling, I can't tell
you with certainty that it's lawful or unlawful. I can tell you that it
meets legal sufficiency in that, you know, in my estimation and all
probability, yes, it is a lawful ordinance.
But I do not have a court case on this that I can point to you and
say, it is definitively a lawful ordinance. That will be coming,
ultimately, absent legislative direction on this issue.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Mr. Brock?
MR. BROCK: I think there is actually a case that has been filed
here in Collier County challenging the legality of the ordinance that is
in place in Collier County. I don't know what stage that is in the court
process. But I don't know of any court that has ruled on the legality
issue of this at this point in time. There may be in some other
counties, but I think there's still one pending in Collier County as to
the legality of this.
MR. KLATZKOW: We were served last week on it, and it's the
same law firm serving all the jurisdictions throughout Florida on the
class action suit.
The vendor has gotten outside counsel to work with the counties
and municipalities on a mutual defense, and this is going to be fought
through the court system. And I wouldn't doubt that different judges
are going to get different rulings throughout the state, which is why,
ultimately, I think this is ultimately going to go up to the Florida
Supreme Court.
MR. BROCK: Imagine that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, that would be strange. I've
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October 13, 2009
never run into that.
MR. KLATZKOW: Never heard that one, yeah.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I haven't either.
Okay. Then my other question is this, if you're going to establish
a lower fee for right turn on red violations and you're going to try to
refund the money to the people who have already paid their fines, it
seems to me there -- you can't use 62.50 as the cost because the cost is
going to have to include going back through this process and issuing
refunds, and that's got to require some labor and some incremental
costs. So I don't think you're talking about 62.50, but maybe you are.
But I am not interested in taking taxpayer money from people
who didn't violate a fine and paying administrative costs so you can
give a refund to people who did violate the law. So whatever that
price is, I think we need to define it a little more clearly.
The other problem is, if the time that elapses from the point
where people are found to be in violation until the time they are
notified is excessive, and I think it is, then why don't we work on that
issue rather than worrying about the fine itself? And that way we
don't get into a problem of whether or not we're treating everybody
equally.
The point is that the fine is intended to change people's behavior,
and it is beginning to do that. And by the time we finish this process,
the number of violations for right on red will probably have dropped
to a fraction of what they are now, and it will not be quite so much of
a problem.
So I would encourage you to at least consider, if you want to, to
bifurcate the -- it sounds almost obscene, but it's the term that the
county attorney's used -- to separate the offenses and have one level of
fine for right turn on red and another level of fine for the other
violations on red.
I probably would vote in favor of that kind of thing. But going
back and refunding money is just, I think, an unnecessary
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October 13, 2009
administrative burden.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'm amazed that people feel that
they can circumvent the law and not be held accountable.
First of all, a driving license is a privilege. It's not a given.
Secondly, if people have -- don't understand what the laws and
regulations are, they can sure as heck get one of these books that says
Florida's Driver's Handbook, okay.
And it says here, red, come to a complete stop at the marked stop
line or before moving into a crosswalk or intersection. At most
intersections after stopping, stopping, you may turn right on red if the
way is clear. Now, this is right from the Florida Statute, and every
state in the union that allows you to make a right turn on red after you
stop, this is the same law that's in other states.
So when I hear stories about, well, the tourists are coming, well,
the tourists have got the same laws in their states, because most of the
48 states, when they instituted this right turn on red, it didn't say just
go through the red. It said to stop. That means the wheels have to
completely come to a stop. It doesn't give a time frame. Doesn't give
anything else. So -- that's a violation.
It's just like for a stop sign, and we have people that run through
stop signs. Stop signs are always octagonal, eight sided. A stop sign
means that you must bring your vehicle to a complete halt at the
marked stop line. Simple, stop the car? Okay.
So when you say that, well, the infractions of making a
right-hand turn isn't as bad as making a left-hand turn onto red, yes, it
IS.
We had people that are sight-impaired who have been -- and
people that were on bicycles that have been hit because of people not
stopping making a right-hand turn.
So the only reason I brought this thing back was the fact that I
didn't think that the 62.50 was enough to take care of our costs. But if
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October 13,2009
it is the cost, then fine. The end result is that we understand that
there's a health, safety, and welfare issue that was -- that was blatant in
this county, and we had to figure some way to bring this under control.
And we looked at all the other ordinances throughout the country --
and it's not only Florida that has this camera issue. This is throughout
the whole United States in regards to people -- making people aware
of the fact that when they come to an intersection, whether it's a
left-hand or right-hand turn, that they must stop before they proceed.
So there's where we're at.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Call the question on the motion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We have one speaker. And would you
call the speaker, please.
MS. FILSON: Yes, ma'am. Gina Downs.
MS. DOWNS: I'll waive.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You waive. Okay, fine.
We have a motion on the floor, and we've had a second.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And what's the motion again?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Suspend the ordinance.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. All those in favor, signify by
.
saYIng aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's a 4-1 vote.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Madam Chair?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
I'm sorry, Commissioner Coletta. You had your light on.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, I did.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, I'm sorry, too.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm sorry, Commissioner
Henning. I don't want to cut you off if you wanted to address what
just took place, but if you want to try to jump in with even more
questions, I'd like to take consideration for the fact I was there before
you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Whatever Commissioner Fiala
wants. I don't care.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coletta was first.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay, thank you. Mr. Feder,
and then Mr. Brock, too. I'm going to ask you some questions.
First, this cost factor that we have down here -- in other words,
what we're talking about is a fine of 62.50. Commissioner Coyle
brought up an argument that that doesn't really represent cost, and he
didn't want to see the taxpayers' funds going out to compensate people
for doing an illegal act. I can't say I don't -- that I disagree with him.
Is this 62.50 a real number or is this just something we grabbed out of
sky?
MR. FEDER: 62.50 is our best understanding right now of our
costs. Now, I think the nature of your question, if you start looking at
a rebate program and the cost to administer that, that's a different
statement. But the cost of administering the program right now, given
that the special magistrate is a separate $50 cost if somebody goes on
appeal, is the cost as best we can see it right now, the program.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. Mr. Brock, in order to be
able to make a refund, it would have to go through your department.
Checks would have to be cut, they would have to be mailed, you'd
have to set up a database. And I didn't mean to catch you unprepared
on this. I thought maybe Crystal would have briefed you a little bit.
MR. BROCK: She provided me with some information.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay, fine. Would you share
that with us?
MR. BROCK: I think I can answer your question. Go ahead and
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October 13,2009
ask it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Would you share that
information with us as far as that cost?
MR. BROCK: To the best of our knowledge, based upon the
information that we could get from the vendor, there appears to be
approximately 3,361 tickets as of the date and time that we acquired
that information from the vendor. That's a total of approximately
three hundred and -- not approximately -- of exactly $329,415 that
have been -- has been transferred as of October the 9th to the Clerk of
the Circuit Court on behalf of Collier County taxpayers.
There are, as I said, three -- yep, there were 3,361 citations. So
we don't have the names or the addresses of the people that that
information -- the citations were issued to.
The vendor, I presume, would have that information, and they
would need to provide us an interface to our system to enable us to
then be able to prepare the check stock to send them the check.
We anticipate that if they will do that, the cost of us cutting the
refunds is only somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of
thousand dollars. But all it takes is us to process the refunds based
upon the information that they provide us and send it out at 44 cents
.
apIece.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Mr. Feder, can you give us
some insight into this? Have you talked to the vendor?
MR. FEDER: Yes. We have spoken to the vendor -- and I may
defer to staff. But as I understand it, they won't send out in their
letterhead any refund, but they will provide us the list.
But the question I have before you -- and I know you haven't set
any rates right now, but you're contemplating a lower first -- I would
tell you that the added costs are going to be, am I dealing which a
second-time offender or a, third-time offender. In the case of a third
time, am I going to charge them more?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No. I think that this would be
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October 13, 2009
clear as anything. We're talking about first, second, third offenses,
how it goes up. So the first offense is the only one we'd be dealing
with.
MR. FEDER: Well, what you're recommending is to make it
retroactive to the new rates, and that's why I asked the question.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, that would be impossible,
because then we would have to assist -- assign a fine, a higher fine to
everyone that's out there, and this wasn't part of the original
understanding when they paid their fine that it was going to go up
after they have taken care of it and satisfied that particular thing.
I'm just trying to make -- if we're going to come up with a lower
price for a ticket for residents to receive them now, we really need to
be able to balance the sheet right across there to the very first day that
these tickets were issued.
Everybody's been saying, this isn't a cash cow, and I'm trying to
prove it. I'm trying desperately to prove it and -- by making this
refund.
But there still seems to be some answers here that we haven't
gotten. We're not absolutely sure --
MR. FEDER: We can -- we can get the list. We would have to
do a verification, as I said, unless you don't want me to, to find out if
I'm dealing with a second or third offender, because the issue is a
first-time offender that, unless you change the rate from what are
being contemplated, the second time would be the 125, which was
originally charged. So if you're only looking for not the third offender
or the like --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second offender, no.
MR. FEDER: The second offender I have to look at to make
sure. So of those 3,361, what I do know is if I've got repeat offenders
in that number. That would have to be an auditing effort on our part.
We can get the list of information from the vendor . We could go
through that process working with the Clerk's Office and respond if
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October 13, 2009
that's the will of the board. But I just wanted to make sure you
understand, when we went through it, our costs didn't necessarily
contemplate that. It doesn't sound like they're that large, but there
would be an effort to try and go through that, and we'd have to define
whether or not I'm dealing with a first-time offender.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. So this is all doable.
MR. FEDER: Anything is doable, sir. You haven't given us a
task we haven't tried to find a way to do.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yep. Well, I'm going to make a
motion at this time to see how -- where it's going to go, that we take
staffs recommendations that we have here where the civil fine would
be 62.50 for the first offense, 125 for the second, 250 for each offense
after that with a five-year time period whereby five years erases it and
starts over again; so that if anybody's going to be a chronic offender,
they take five years before they could ever clear it off, and that we
also go back to the very first ticket that was issued for anyone that had
a first offense and that we issue them a refund of the difference
between the 125 and the 62.50.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I'll second it for the matter of
discussion.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Oh, thank you, Donna. Oh, yes,
thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes, thank you. Commissioner
Fiala, if I may make a suggestion, to move this along, maybe a
possible -- poll the members on different ideas. The issue about
refunding, I'm not going to support that.
And if we get back to an idea of a difference of level of citation,
I'm not in favor of that; in other words, a different fee or citation -- it's
not a fee, because it's a fine -- for right-hand turn versus through -- I
mean the law is clear. Besides, how are you going to feel if that passes
and a child is killed because somebody was slowing down to make a
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October 13, 2009
right-hand turn instead of stopping? I'm not going to live with that.
That's where I'm feeling, so I'm ready to vote no on the motion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Halas is next.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I was also going to state here -- this
doesn't have anything to do with the motion, but there's been people
that have written letters to the editor saying, well, the light is yellow,
that means I can still go.
The law is, yellow, stop if you can safely do so. The light will
soon be red. So because the light's yellow doesn't mean that you go
blasting through it, and I don't know how many times we've seen that.
So I think that what this is is -- this is not a cash cow. This is
basically -- it's a tough way for people to understand what the rules of
the road are, and if they have a problem with that, I'm sure they can go
to the sheriff s department and say, I'd like to take a refresher course
on my own in regards to the rules of the road here in the State of
Florida, and they can get this. And it's -- as you can see, it's a very
thick book. I had Lieutenant Minch get this to me during the break,
and I just wanted to make sure that the law, it states in here exactly
what it is.
And as Commissioner Henning said, there's a lot of young
children that cross because they've been told if they're at a crosswalk
and that light is green, that means for them to go and go across. And
the people who are adults and have a driver's license and basically
ignore the stoplight and the stop bar and proceed into the crosswalk
and hit that child or anybody that's sight-impaired or an old lady with
a bag of groceries, there's no rhyme nor reason why there should be a
difference in the fine.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I think we've already established
that any motion that provides for a refund is not going to pass. There
are three commissioners who will not do that.
There is no indication that there's enough commissioners to agree
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October 13, 2009
that we will have a different level fine for right on red. That leaves
only one reasonable alternative, as I understand it, and that is that we
can reduce the fine for the first offense -- offenses from this point
onward, or we can leave it alone the way it is. So which way would
you prefer to go?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, we've still got a motion,
and you're probably right in your analysis that it doesn't have enough
support to pass; however, I do want to correct a couple things. A
bunch of facts were brought up that I totally agree with.
One, it's still a serious violation, a right-hand turn on red. I never
made that a part of my motion to lessen the fine for it or to treat it as
any lesser offense. Two, there's been other things that were brought
up, and they had no bearing upon the motion itself. The motion only
states that we would make a reimbursement, and I stated the reasons
why. I can understand if the commission doesn't want to go along
with it, but I feel very strongly about it.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion on the floor and a
second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: What's the motion?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: The motion --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The motion is we adjourn.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: The motion was --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: The motion --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- to approve the 62.50 for the first, the
125 for the second, and then to refund and -- those that have already
been ticketed, that's the motion?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's the motion.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's the motion.
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October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. All those in favor, signify by
.
saYIng aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So that's a --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, it was close.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That was a 1-4.
Okay. So now, do I have a motion to approve? It looks like we're
all in agreement that probably the way Jeff Klatzkow and staff came
up with -- as far as the recommendation is something that we can all
live with, and so may I have a motion, Commissioner --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Motion to approve the executive
summary whereby the first offense is 62.50, the second offense is
$125, and the third offense is $250.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Do I hear a second? Oh--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And that the third, within -- the
third violation within a five-year period.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do I have a second? I'll second it.
Okay. And now Commissioner Henning is -- first Commissioner
Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You know, you keep on
seconding these motions that you can't even support yourself.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, that's okay. I have a right to do that
for discussion.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I know it, but it just seems
like we're discussing it a whole heck of a lot. That's all. But let me --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, you know, this one I can support.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You know, since we're in the
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October 13, 2009
sunshine, I read the Naples Daily News, and your comments, if they
were printed correctly, I agree with, is a lesser fine for the second and
third offense. If that's not true --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That is what I wanted. But from what
I've heard up here, it looks like nobody else is going to -- that's the
first I heard that anybody would go along with it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I can't talk to you in the
back room.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I know.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I have to talk to you out here.
So I mean, I would support something like that. That's why I was
talking about, you know, kind of like a consensus and move this item
a little bit.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I see.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's all.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coyle, you were
pounding on your little button.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I thought we agreed -- well,
I think most people agreed that it is a serious offense to go blowing
through a red light. I mean, some people were saying it's less serious
if you do it -- turn right. So now what we're going to do is make the
fine 62.50 if you go blowing through a red light at 50 miles an hour?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No, that isn't the motion at all.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That is the motion.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's the motion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's the motion.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'm trying to move this along, 125,
250.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So you've got to have a deterrent;
62.50 is not that much of a deterrent for such a serious infraction.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: To some people it truly is.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, them some people should
drive more carefully if it's so much --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, then they will after 62.50.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Will they? Okay. You promise?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I would think so.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Listen--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: The third time.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I am driving more carefully, and I
have never gotten one of these tickets. I have become extremely
conscience of the fact that I must stop completely and count to 30
before I move forward, so I move forward.
MS. FILSON: Thirty?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. So it does impact your
driving habits. It will change people's habits. And if they think it's a
cash cow, let them show us and stop violating the law, and then we
won't get any money. Won't that be wonderful?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Amen.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You know, wouldn't that be
wonderful?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So -- okay. I'm going to make a
motion. Let's leave the thing --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No. The motion's on the floor.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: All right. Then I vote no.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You don't even know what the motion is.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Whatever it is, I'm voting no.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, you know, for the first
time in a while I'm going to agree with Commissioner Coy Ie, because
I think we got a consensus to come up with something that's going to
be a little user friendly for the driving public out there. I think ,,'e're
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October 13,2009
missing the point. $125 or 62 or $65 for the people I represent, it
makes a difference.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: $125 cripples these people.
They've got to put food on the table and they have a hard time.
So I'm going to vote against the motion because the next motion's
going to be to lower all those other fines behind it to the point that it's
more realistic. I can't give them a cash rebate, but I've just heard the
conversation going back and forth, and I just realized the power's at
this end of the dais.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, good.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. How about that?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It always is on the left side.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, it depends on where
you're standing. From the audience's point of view --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I have a motion on the floor.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- this is the right side.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I have a motion on the floor and a second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Make your motion.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. Okay. I make a
motion that fines be 62.50 for the first offense, $75 for the second
offense, and $100 for the third.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Who seconded that?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I did.
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October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine. I have a motion on the floor,
and you-all heard it and a second.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Boo.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do we have any comments?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It's a 3-2.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, we won. The people
won. The people we represent won.
MS. FILSON: Commissioner Fiala, did you vote for that or
against?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Pardon me?
MS. FILSON: Did you vote for that or against it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I voted for the motion.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So what's the fines now?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes.
MR. OCHS: 62.50.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: 62.50--
MR. OCHS: 62.50.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- 75, and 100.
MR. FEDER: Madam Chair? Madam Chair?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
MR. FEDER: My apologies. But can you give us an idea, the
board, just as direction, when does that become effective? Do we
assume that's effective anything issued as of today?
MR. KLA TZKOW: No, it's effective when it's filed in
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October 13,2009
Tallahassee. All ordinances are effective when filed in Tallahassee.
MR. FEDER: Filed in Tallahassee.
MR. KLA TZKOW: So you've changed the ordinance. It was an
advertised, I'll make the changes, and we'll get it out to Tallahassee
right away.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So in other words--
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So then do you advise us when that --
MR. KLATZKOW: Oh, it's a couple days, just a couple days.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So we should warn everybody
out there, don't drive for a couple of days?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No. It takes effect -- the new tines
take effect -- the new fines take effect on the day that the ordinance is
sent out or it's --
MR. KLA TZKOW: When filed, so it will be -- it will take effect
in three, four days.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MR. FEDER: And the last question --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So if anybody gets a ticket today,
they're going to get -- they're going to pay the fine at the going rate
right now?
MR. FEDER: And Madam Chair, if you --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Did you have some- --
MR. BROCK: No. I mean, it takes effect upon it being filed
with the Secretary of State's Office in Tallahassee, and it's the tinle
stamp that they put on it that is the effective date, and then they send
us the document back that would reflect the effective date.
So, you know, the County Attorney's Office will be aware of that
once we get it back because we will make them aware of it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Can we send it by courier or
something to get it there like the next day?
MR. BROCK: We can certainly look at that. If we need to
expedite that process, we'll see what we can do. I'll direct my staff to
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October 13, 2009
do that for you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Mr. Feder?
MR. FEDER: Madam Chairman, my apologies, but I've been
asked by some of the folks here as well. We're assuming that as far as
the issue of first, second, and subsequent violations, that we're going
from the beginning of the program, not from the start of this date?
Because that will become a big issue when we get into any issues of
going before the special magistrate.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Say that again.
MR. FEDER: What is the board's direction? We assume, but I
want to make sure that we are doing what the board wants us to do --
that if somebody after it is now with the Secretary of State date
stamped, at that point, the fine is as of the figures 62, 75 and 100; but
as far as the occurrence, if somebody had already received a citation
under the program, then they're working on the second one at that
time? Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: If somebody's already received one,
they're working on the ordinance that is in effect right now; is that
correct?
MR. FEDER: Yeah, they already had it. But they -- understand.
I'm saying that if they -- when we start implementing this after that
date and time, if they have already had one in the system previously,
then we're working based on them being on their second violation; is
that correct? It's the only thing that makes sense on it, but --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah, that's right--
MR. FEDER: -- I want to make sure.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- yeah, because then they're after that
time stamp, right?
MR. FEDER: Right.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, let's talk about that for
just a second, if we can. It's almost like double dipping if you stop
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October 13, 2009
and think about it. They're paying the full shot, $125, now they're
going to get the second -- well, they'll actually have a reduced fine for
the second one.
I think you almost have to have a division, in other words, saying
that's it. The first one would start the day this ordinance goes into
effect. I don't know. Think about it. I mean, I'm -- I didn't think
about this before.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Then you'd drag it on and on and on.
MR. KLATZKOW: The easiest thing to do--
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Go ahead, Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Oh, my God.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Let's get down to the realistic
thing. All people have to do is abide by the damn traffic laws, and
they won't have a problem with the ticket, okay? I don't understand
what the problem is here.
And now we're down to, why don't we charge them 10 cents a
ticket, you know?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I mean, it's ridiculous -- it's
ridiculous on where this subject matter is going. The -- the idea is
that, first of all, driving is a privilege. It's not a given.
And secondly of all, you have to abide by the traffic laws. If you
don't abide by them, then why are we even discussing this thing?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We've still got to give direction.
MR. KLATZKOW: One approach, and I think it's the easiest
approach, is that --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Jesus.
MR. KLATZKOW: -- if you violated this law until the effective
date of this new ordinance, you're operating under the old ordinance.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's exactly right.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's it.
MR. KLATZKOW: Okay. And once the ordinance is filed with
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October 13, 2009
the Secretary of State, whatever it is, three days or four days, at that
point in time, if you go through a red light, it's reduced fines.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right, right, and it starts over
from then.
MR. KLATZKOW: It just starts -- it starts then.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Got it.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. We start the clock over.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Let's move on to another subject.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, that was fun.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I think we have this one pretty well
massacred.
Item #10B
CHANGE ORDER 1 TO CONTRACT #08-5122 WITH POST,
BUCKLEY, SCHUH & JERNIGAN AT A COST OF $1,303,397.38
TO IMPLEMENT PHASE 2 OF THE WATERSHED
MANAGEMENT PLANS REQUIRED BY THE GROWTH
MANAGEMENT PLAN - APPROVED W/STIPULATIONS
MR.OCHS: Commissioner, that takes us to lOB. That's a
recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approve
change order number one to contract 08-5122 with Post, Buckley,
Schuh, and Jernigan at a cost of$1,303,397.38 to implement Phase II
of the Watershed Management Plans required by the Growth
Management Plan, and Mr. Wiley will present.
MR. WILEY: For the record, Robert Wiley with your
Engineering and Environmental Services Department.
As you know we came to you back in June with this contract
amendment, although it's called a change order, because that is
effectively what the form is that we have to use through the
purchasing department. But from the origin, the contract, even RFP,
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October 13,2009
stipulated various activities to be taking place, so all those consulting
firms that responded to the RFP knew it was the full package.
We brought it to you before the Phase I contract to get the initial
work going, which they are working on that now. That's the
establishment of the model that they'll use. This is Phase II, to then
take that model to run through the alternative scenarios, do the
complete Watershed Management Plan package that is explained to
you in your document.
And so this is, indeed, the bulk of the work. Rather than going
with the full contract at the front, we chose to do two phases so we
could be getting some work done while we were also waiting for the
Southwest Florida feasibility study to continue making progress,
which they have done so.
So we're ready to go into the Phase II process. If you have any
questions, I'll try to answer them for you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We have two--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion on the floor and a
second. We have two speakers and two commissioners up to bat.
Would you call the speakers, please.
MS. FILSON: Nicole Ryan?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: She's not here.
MS. FILSON: Brad Cornell?
MR. CORNELL: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Brad
Cornell and I'm here on behalf of Collier County Audubon Society
and Audubon of Florida.
And first I want to emphasize that this is something that's been
long in the process; 20 years we've been waiting for these. You are to
be commended for finally moving this ball forward with the 2005
EAR amendments and the commitment of $4 million to fund them to
actually develop these countywide Watershed Management Plans.
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October 13,2009
We strongly urge you to engage the consultants that are proposed
for this Phase II study and to do that watershed modeling necessary
for completing the Watershed Management Plans.
I do want to point out a theme that is occurring now in a number
of issues that come before you having to do with natural resources.
And that theme is that it is a wise and considerable approach to look at
proactive planning on a landscape level or a watershed level before we
go to the project-by-project permitting of activities on that landscape
or in that watershed.
And I would point to a couple of efforts that you have
accomplished in the past five, six, seven years. Rural land
stewardship, transfer of development rights being two of them that
effectively plan resource protection on 300,000 acres of rural Collier
County. That is a very smart strategy.
And we have supported you in that process and in that planning.
And this is a similar effort on a watershed basis to look at planning for
protection of resources for public benefit. This is our green
infrastructure that keeps Collier County effectively going and
.
prospenng.
And we strongly urge you to make this commitment for the
contracting of the consultants and move forward with the completion
of the Watershed Management Plans.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Brad.
MS. FILSON: That was your final speaker, Madam Chairman.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have -- the motion was made by
Commissioner Halas to approve. And who was the second, please?
MS. FILSON: Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I was.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, thank you.
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October 13, 2009
I'm going to resign from trying to stop spending money on this
item, because we did make a commitment. But I just want to be --
hopefully the board would be responsible in this. This is an over 200
percent change, change order. Nobody can stand up there and say it's
not a change order, the contract. And it was -- the performance were
either done (sic). You have new duties in there. That is a change
order.
The responsible thing to do is to put this out to bid for this
change order. But in this change order it does not -- there's no
specificity of what goals, what work is going to be done?
If you look on Page 7 of the executive summary, the change that
I see is change of time and giving them $1.3 million more, but it
doesn't say what they're going to do for that $1.3 million.
And that specificity should be there and it should align our
Growth Management Plan because the Watershed Management Plan
__ and this is why you're doing it, the study -- is to develop a plan; is
that correct, Robert?
MR. WILEY: Yes, sir, it is.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you. Then in the Growth
Management Plan, it states of -- all the objectives for this policy. And
our staff, with the help of the county manager, should tell us exactly
what we're going to get for that $1.3 million.
So by approving this item, you're not going to get possibly a local
firm to bid on this. That's first of all. Second of all is, what you get --
what are you getting for this $1.3 million? Okay.
MR. WILEY: Could I address that?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The question, yes.
MR. WILEY: If you'll go to Page 67 of83 on the agenda item,
you will see there the Phase II scope of work. And from Page 67 all
the way over through to Page 83, that lists the items that will be
involved in this study as well as a breakout of the hours proposed by
the consultant to do the work.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Well, let's go down
through one item by line item and point out in the Growth
Management Plan where that is a requirement.
MR. WILEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can you do that, please?
MR. WILEY: Well, if I go get my Growth Management Plan,
but that's up in the office. I do not have that with me.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I think Mr. Cohen has -- behind
you.
MR. WILEY: But we have -- that would be objective 2.1, okay.
Good, thank you, Randy.
Objective 2.1 says, by January 2008, the county shall complete
their prioritization and begin the process of preparing Watershed
Management Plans.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Wiley?
MR. WILEY: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I hate to interrupt you. We're
just looking for the duties that need to be done under the Growth
Management Plan --
MR. WILEY: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- for watershed. So in that -- in
the scope of this change order, can you point out to where we're doing
exactly what the Growth Management Plan says in the scope of
service in this change order, Phase II scope of work?
MR. WILEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
MR. WILEY: We'll head that way.
Under policy 2.1.1 in the Growth Management Plan, it says,
those plans, speaking of the Watershed Management Plans, will
evaluate activities in the watersheds that drain into the estuaries in
order to evaluate cumulative impacts on the estuarine system as well
as impacts within the watersheds themselves.
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October 13, 2009
If you look at the scope of work, you start out with element one
addressing the watersheds themselves and the impacts of assessing the
existing conditions. Eventually by working through what's in element
one and all of the background materials that you have to analyze, you
get to the point that, over later on -- and I'm getting there as we turn --
and I was thinking it was element two, but I've got to confirm that.
Under element two, which starts on Page 74 of 83, is where we
specifically began. It says, assessment of existing conditions with the
estuaries. So we are taking from policy 2.1.1, beginning with the
background information that brings the water from the upper region of
the county down to the estuaries, and then beginning to assess the
impacts upon the estuaries as required under that particular policy. It's
a systematic approach to get to the direction we wish to receive.
Under policy 2.1.2, the plans will provide for various tasks such
as monitoring land-disturbing activities in the watersheds, collecting
canal flow and water quality data, stormwater quality data, and
assessing habitat changes.
All of that is coming about through that element one series of
tasks that are identified in this scope of work, and they are very
specific as to how we're going to achieve that, including the
establishment of the alternatives analysis through the modeling that
will be set up through Phase I and utilized in this Phase II contract.
Okay?
Policy 2.1.3, it says, the plans will also evaluate structural and
nonstructural controls for restoring historical hydro periods in
impacted watersheds where possible and for reducing the impacts of
canal and stormwater discharges to estuaries. This is where we will
take the model running various alternative scenarios through the
various reaches of the model to see what produces the impacts, and
then coming up with alternative direction within the plan so that we
make those impacts minimal or acceptable, whatever the terminology
you wish to use.
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October 13, 2009
Then we get down into policy 2.1.4, it lists a series of concepts
that will be addressed. Those are scattered throughout the whole
scope of work within this Phase II contract. I mean, if you want, we
can go through and individually find them, but they are scattered here
and there within the different paragraphs because they work together
cumulatively to produce this effect.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well-- and that's my exact
point. Nowhere -- I mean, there's a lot of stuff within this work order
change, this change order, that is not in the Growth Management Plan.
And I'll give you an example. One of the tasks is to look at the
structural improvements of culverts, bridge replacements, water
diversion, restoration, water conservation area, aquifer storage and
recovery. Saltwater intrusion is one of them. That is the only one
that's in the Growth Management Plan under this particular task.
The next task is, in task two, and that would be the total nitrins
(sic), phosphorous, suspended solids, color, and bacteria. That's not in
the Growth Management Plan. And so -- and I think if we just do to --
what we are committed to do under the Growth Management Plan, we
can save a lot of money.
Now, that's all I want to do, besides the fact is, such a huge
change order, it should be -- it should be bidded out.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Robert, I want to make sure of
something. We originally budgeted $4 million for this project, but we
received $496,405.30 from South Florida Water Management District
to -- in 2008. Does that mean that we're spending 4,496,000, or has
the 496,000 from South Florida Water Management District gone to
cover costs that previously have been spent?
MR. WILEY: Okay. We start with a budget of 4 million, and
that is 4 million based upon the general fund through ad valorem
taxation. When we went to the contract to acquire the lidar, which is
the aerial topographic mapping, that contract was a little over a
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October 13,2009
million dollars. The Water Management District agreed to fund
roughly half of it. That's where we have roughly the half-million
dollars. That money was paid back to the county and went back into
the general fund so that the net result is a reduction on the impact, but
it does not mean it increased our budget by four-and-a-half million
dollars. Our budget still stays at $4 million.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: $4 million.
MR. WILEY: It just reduced the impact upon the 001 budget by
the funding contributed by the district.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. That's good. So we have
$1,592,000 roughly left in this budget --
MR. WILEY: That is the current --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- to finish this project?
MR. WILEY: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Are you at all concerned whether
or not we're going to be able to do it with that amount of money?
MR. WILEY: Yes, sir. That's why we're looking at this contract,
because we're getting close to that number as we go into it at 1.3. Our
budget's 1.5. We think we will make it. But as we get into it, if there
are other situations that come up through the results of the analysis,
while we do not anticipate them happening right now, as we've said in
the executive summary, if we have to go to the point that we look as
though we are going to be coming back for a change order or a
contract amendment, that would exceed the 4 million total budget,
which we've already got about one-and-a-half million left. We do not
assume we have four-and-a-half million to work with, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Well, I want to let you
know that if you come back to me, I'm not going to vote for any more
money for this project.
MR. WILEY: We understand that. We do not anticipate coming
back. But you said, is there a concern? There's always a concern
when you start coming up predicting the future.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, what I would suggest is that
whatever is necessary in the contract, we obligate the contractor to
finish the project with the remaining amount of money, and there
won't be an option to come back and ask for more money.
Generally, I am appalled that with all of the information we have
accumulated with lidar ourselves over the past ten years that we've
been working with the project that never ends, the FEMA floodplain
analysis and all of the work that South Florida Water Management
District has done with respect to water flows and all of the work that
private agencies and Corps of Engineers have done with respect to
water flows and water quality, I am amazed that we could not have
taken the existing data and drawn preliminary conclusions that would
have represented a first-level Watershed Management Plan.
We could continue to improve on that if we wish to, but I'm
afraid that our constant attempts to reach perfection in the
measurement are delaying the project and wasting taxpayer dollars.
But I just want to impress upon you my feeling that $1,592,476 is
the amount of money that will get this job done. And if it's not done,
then I'm going to expect some very specific reasons, because we're not
going to have the money to give you anything more. It's got to be
done and it's got to be done for this amount of money.
And if the contract for this award is not written that way, then we
need to write the contract that way.
MR. WILEY: Well, it will be that way. In fact, if we exceed the
1.3 million price you have here, you'll know why.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. WILEY : We don't anticipate going beyond that. But giving
__ understanding what all has transpired through the efforts put forth in
the Southwest Florida Feasibility Study, I'm just saying, you had the
question put, are there any concerns? There's always concerns when
we're trying to predict ahead of time what activities we might
encounter. So I wanted to just make you aware that we may come
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October 13,2009
back to ask for an increase for this to go up -- for 1.5, but I don't
anticipate it at this time.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You're not going get any more
money from me, okay?
MR. WILEY: I understand that, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: End of story. And that puts us in a
very difficult position because if DCA does impose sanctions because
of our failure to meet our requirements, then we've got to take money
out of somebody else's budget to do this, and we're getting to the point
where everybody's budget is sort of critical, particularly next year. It's
going to be worse than this year.
And we're going to have to absolutely commit to getting the job
done for the Watershed Management Plan on schedule next year
without any additional money. It might not be perfect, but it must be
completed. End of story.
MR. WILEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. WILEY: Would you like me to follow up on your FEMA
statement?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Robert, I don't even want to talk
about it. I've been working on the FEMA project for ten years, and it's
always supposed to be completed next year, and it's never completed
next year.
It is a terrible, terrible project, and I don't even want to talk about
it because I don't want to spoil the rest of my day, okay.
MR. WILEY: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Actually I have to agree with everything
you said. You were right -- right on target.
Okay. We have a motion on the floor and a second. No other
speakers. Any comments?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, 4-1. Very good.
We move on to rental registration rebates.
Item #10C
THE STATUS OF THE RENTAL REGISTRATION LATE FEE
REBA TE PROGRAM THA T WAS INITIATED AT THE
DIRECTION OF THE BOARD AND TO REQUEST THAT THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PROVIDE GUIDA.NCE
TO THE COUNTY MANAGER OR HIS DESIGNEE AFFIRMING
STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION TO ELIMINATE THE RENTAL
REGISTRATION PROGRAM AND IN DOING SO DIRECT
STAFF TO AMEND THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE
ORDINANCE TO ELIMINATE THE RENTAL REGISTRATION
PROGRAM AS SET FORTH IN SECTION 22-264 OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY CODE OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES .AND
AS ESTABLISHED BY SECTION SEVEN OF ORDINANCE 04-
58~ AS AMENDED - APPROVED
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am. 10C is a report to the Board of County
Commissioners on the status of rental registration late fee rebate
program. It was initiated at the direction of the board and to request
that the Board of County Commissioners provide guidance to the
county manager regarding recommendations to eliminate the rental
registration program and so direct staff to amend the property
maintenance ordinance to eliminate the rental registration program as
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October 13, 2009
set forth in Section 22-264 of the Collier County Code of Laws and
Ordinances.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve staffs
recommendations.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Henning and a second by Commissioner Coletta and a
third by Commissioner Coyle.
Any comments? Any speakers?
MS. FILSON: No, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. All those in favor, signify by
.
saYIng aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Great presentation, Joe, a winning
presentation.
Item #10D
A BUDGET AMENDMENT APPROPRIATING $6,131,486.28 OF
CARRY FORWARD FOR OPEN PURCHASE ORDERS FOR
OPERATING BUDGET FUNDS - APPROVED
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am. Next item, 10D, recommendation to
approve a budget amendment appropriating $6,131,386.28,
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October 13, 2009
carryforward for open purchase orders for operating budget fund.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve -- second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have motion on the floor by
Commissioner Halas, a second by Commissioner Coyle.
We have no speakers?
MS. FILSON: No, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. All those in favor, signify--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Nope, question, please.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Just one question, Mr. Ochs. Is
__ are these absolutely necessary to expend those funds that we're
carrying forward?
MR. OCHS : Yes, sir. These are --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MR.OCHS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's fine. That's all I need.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. All those in favor, signify by
saYIng aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: 5-0.
Item #11
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS
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October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Now, we go down to public comments.
Sue, do we have any speakers?
MS. FILSON: Yes, ma'am, I have one. James Guerrero.
MR. GUERRERO: Madam Chair, Commissioners. I was here
last time on the same issue. We're the contractor for Julie Hardymon
Bowersox under the housing program, SHIP, and DRI funds, and the
latest is that we still haven't been paid for over 14,000 of -- dollars of
54 to 90 days aged invoices.
The last time I heard for the first time, it was disclosed that the
client was under investigation. I don't see this as a problem from my
point of view. I see it as an unnecessary delay.
These funds were sequestered. They're SHIP and DRI funds,
state or federal funds. They were dedicated. And the question still
remains from my point of view, why can't it be paid? Perhaps -- I
come from an engineer perspective. Maybe if I present a solution, that
might work. And the solution might be an agreement between me and
the county and the client, an affidavit of some sort, that would release
these funds, and then go ahead and continue with the -- with the object
of the investigation, whatever it is.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Can we have Dwight down here to maybe
talk to us about this?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. This is a clerk issue.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes. Dwight, are you listening? Maybe
they can come down here quickly. And also, because this is -- this is
not right.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, it's not.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You know, one of the things I'm very
concerned about is our contractors who are out there in good faith.
They bid on the jobs, they get the jobs, and then -- and then they
expect to be paid when they've completed the jobs, and then they can't
get paid. And I don't know why.
Marcy, do you have any -- any information for us until -- until
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October 13,2009
we get Dwight down here?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Do we have to settle this right
now?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, I think so. You know, I wonder if
we put this poor guy out of business because -- or any other person for
that matter -- because we're not paying them.
MS. KRUMBINE: For the record, Marcy Krumbine, Director of
Housing and Human Services.
I do have in front of me -- and I can confirm what he has said --
that we have awarded Mr. Guerrero just shy of $97,000 worth of
contracted work through our office. We've -- he's invoiced us a little
over $51,000 of -- for that work, and that would be work that we have
inspected that it was finished and completed to our specifications.
We've paid just about 36,500 of that work.
And what's remaining is the 14,700 for the one DRI disaster
recovery, SHIP project. So that means that we have paid 71 percent of
the work that he's done so far for -- that he's invoiced for our office.
And the job in question is under investigation with the Sheriffs
Office, and there has been -- they're still investigating it. They're
interviewing the client and doing their due diligence.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Were you first?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I thought you were, but maybe it's
Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I don't know.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It doesn't make any difference.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. Why do we want to get
involved in a sheriffs investigation? And the second thing is, the
clerk probably is not, from what I understand in the past, he doesn't
pay them because he's questioning the legality. So why would we, on
a public comment, try to pay something that it might be illegal? Your
county attorney's going like this.
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October 13, 2009
MR. KLATZKOW: This isn't your issue. I mean, you approved
the work and the work got done. Apparently there's some allegations
of possible perjury in the application. The Sheriffs Office is
investigating that.
And, you know, if the clerk decides to cut the check, he'll cut the
check. Ifhe doesn't, he doesn't. And it's the clerk's decision right
now, not the board's.
MS. FILSON: And he's on his way. I just got an email. He's on
his way over here.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I didn't realize we're talking about
Sheriffs Office, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's all right.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'm sorry. So I mean, I just --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm done.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- thought this was a check being held up.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Could I?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. It's -- there's more here
than meets the eye. I mean, there's been numerous complaints from
people that are very reluctant to come before this board about getting
paid, and this is the reason why.
I mean, if this boils down to be the very last of everything that's
out there, then maybe our problems are starting to go away. But still,
it's a real issue, and this man has every right to come before us.
And even though it's the clerk issue, the clerk has been working
very well with us. He's been very responsive to everything we've been
doing for a while now. Yes, he has. And it wouldn't be a bad idea for
him to be able to give guidance to us.
Now, let's go to the issue on the whole rather than on this small
little part. How many applications -- now, you told me back about a --
three weeks ago that you had stopped taking applications on your
desk, you wouldn't consider anything else for payment because of the
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October 13,2009
backlog for getting everything taken care of.
Is this still an issue?
MS. KRUMBINE: No. Commissioner, we did go ahead and
make sure that all of the vendor packets and payments have gone
forward to the Clerk's Office. And one of the key elements that we
had was redoing a waiver of lien, and that has been satisfied, to the
finance department's specifications, and we have gotten with all of our
vendors and all of our packets to review and redo all of their waivers
of liens. And as they're being done, they're being submitted right back
to finance.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And is there a reasonable
turnaround now? Is things starting to happen in an orderly fashion?
MS. KRUMBINE: Yes. I believe you walked out with a check
for $8,200 last week. And yes, they are doing what they can do to
facilitate this backlog.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Do you have any kind of score
sheet that you keep showing when things come in and when they're
finally resolved?
MS. KRUMBINE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Can you share that with the
commission?
MS. KRUMBINE: I can, but not right this --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Oh, no, no. It wouldn't do us
any good at this moment in time. But could you em ail it to us so
possibly we might be able to look at that and get some idea of the
magnitude of the problem or the fact that the solution is well in hand?
MS. KRUMBINE: I'd be happy to.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Dwight, sorry to drag you all
the way back again.
MR. BROCK: That's okay. I'd have been here sooner except for
the fact I heard you say something good about me as I was walking
through the magnifier security and I almost passed out.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It was a slip. So don't worry
about it. We won't do it again.
MR. BROCK: Okay. What you got?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I'll let the county attorney
explain it to you, and it's really your issue more than it's ours.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. This is the issue dealing with the
investigation that the Sheriffs Office is doing on the allegation of
perjury on an application for funding. I forget the name of it, Bowers
or --
MR. BROCK: I have no idea what the name is.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We don't need to know the name.
MR. BROCK: Yeah. I have no idea what the name is. What
you need to know about it? I mean, I know that -- what transpired, the
problem that we're having is we've got an agreement. Part of the
agreement is that they will provide to the taxpayers of this community
a, no worse than a second mortgage, which means that we stand in a
second position to that of the first mortgage.
And, in fact, there was an application filed that said that that was
the case, and we discovered that there was, in fact, a tax lien that
prohibits us from standing in the second position, and that's the issue
that we are grappling with with the payment request.
The payment request, I think we have been dealing with a
contractor. And I don't know -- you know, I haven't had the personal
contact with the individual.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: There he is.
MR. BROCK: But we have been dealing with the contractor.
And you know, our agreement is not with the contractor. It's with the
homeowner that did the application. We understand the scenario in
which the contractor finds himself in, but that doesn't help me in
determining the legality of that potential expenditure. That
expenditure is out there with an agreement that the parties cannot
abide by, as we understand it.
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What would you advise the
petitioner that's before us today?
MR. BROCK: In terms of?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: To be able to resolve this.
MR. BROCK: Well, I know no resolution under the agreement
that we have but compliance with the agreement.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay.
MR. GUERRERO: If I may, Chair? If I may, Madam
Chairman.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
MR. GUERRERO: It's a similar situation here in when we have
to do a workaround to come to a solution. We have a previous
agreement that seems to be flawed from the design. Do we need a
second agreement, a second agreement that will allow us to get the
contractor and the subs paid, keep liens from going to the house, and
to continue on with your investigation and finalize your first
agreement? Correct?
MR. BROCK: Incorrect. My -- the agreement that the county
taxpayers have with the party that's the principal in this arrangement is
the homeowner, not the vendor. We're not in privy with the vendor.
The contractor is in privy with the homeowner. The county and the
taxpayers of this community has no privity with the vendor. That's an
issue between the vendor and the homeowner.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Are you telling us that the -- that
we have no ability to place a lien on the property?
MR. BROCK: We, no. I mean--
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We can't do that?
MR. BROCK: -- to my knowledge, there would not be a
mechanism to place a lien on the property.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Even though we're the ones who
approved the contractor to perform the work? Didn't we do that?
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October 13, 2009
MR. BROCK: No.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We didn't do that?
MR. BROCK: No. I mean, you may have through some -- your
staff may have, as I understand it, through some arrangement agreed
that this person could work on it, but the agreement is with the
homeowner.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Did you do this, Marcy?
MS. KRUMBINE: Commissioners, as -- this rehab program,
yes, we -- we lend money or we grant money to the homeowner, okay,
and the homeowner has the right to choose their contractor. And so
we work with them to do competitive bidding and to review what
they've gotten and then make the best choice.
The contract is between the homeowner and the contractor;
however, then we open up a PO, we, meaning Collier County, open up
a PO with the contractor through Collier County. And my
understanding is that a purchase order is a form of a contract.
And if the issue that the clerk brought up for the first time that
we've heard is that we're -- our mortgage document says that we're in
second position, if we can just modify that to say that we're in third
position, that can be done. Nobody's ever presented that to us.
MR. KLATZKOW: I don't know what to tell you. I mean, the
program is, people apply for funding to us, okay. You approved that
funding as part of your regular agenda item, and then they went out
and they got a contractor for it, the homeowner did, okay, to use our --
to use grant funding for this.
But the problem is that when they applied for the funding, there's
an allegation that they committed perjury, okay. I mean, when we
asked them a certain question, they gave a certain answer that wasn't
truthful, okay. I mean, the clerk's office caught that, okay.
And so the problem is, how do we start paying money out to
people who lied to us to get the money? And I understand that the
contractor has a problem here -- and I don't want to sound hardhearted,
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October 13, 2009
but that's always a possibility when you're getting jobs like this. Just
like it's a possibility when you do work for somebody, they go
bankrupt and they can't pay you. I mean, there are risks incurred in all
jobs.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I still -- I don't like this
program, and I've said it a 100 times, because if there's any program
that is susceptible to fraud, this is it.
MR. BROCK: Oh, boy.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, this is it. And it's always
bothered me. But let's -- I just want to try to solve this problem and
make sure we don't make a similar mistake in the future.
It seems to me that if we're going to agree to give somebody
money to improve their home or rehabilitate their home, we should
have the same rights that we have when we go out and cut their grass
and put a lien on their property for maintaining their property. W' e
should have the same rights. Now why don't we?
MR. BROCK: Can I try to -- I think I can help you in
understanding this. This, as I understand it, is not money that comes
from the taxpayers of Collier County.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's right.
MR. BROCK: This is a pass-through grant --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
MR. BROCK: -- that has certain requirements and criteria to be
expended in conformance with that grant that has federal regulations
that are part of the requirements of Collier County in complying 'with
its grant.
And you can't make arrangements to do something that is not
authorized by those grant terms. And that's the problem, as I
understand it, and I haven't been involved in this, you know,
personally, but my staff have been working through this. But that's
the issue that we've got. In compliance with that grant, we've created
this agreement, this contract, so to speak. It requires the taxpayers of
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October 13, 2009
Collier County to stand in a second position.
And we discovered that at the time of application, this particular
homeowner that had applied for this grant had an outstanding tax lien,
had been through bankruptcy, had gone through two separate
bankruptcy education courses so that they would understand all of the
parameters of what the consequences of that tax lien were and whether
or not that liability had been wiped clean, so to speak, through that
bankruptcy action, which it has not, and now we find ourselves in this
position because that was not dealt with up front.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Then what was our failure to deal
with it up front? How can we solve this problem so that it doesn't
occur again?
MR. BROCK: By doing a more thorough check of the
information, because this information was available on the public
records, and that's how we found it. Do a more thorough check in the
individuals -- of the individuals that are making application and not
treating this program, you know, pardon my frankness, as a give-away
program, but rather a legitimate expenditure of public funds and do
our due diligence up front.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And who in our office is
responsible for doing that? Is it the County Attorney's Office, is it
Marcy, or do we not have a structure and a procedure to get that done?
MS. KRUMBINE: We absolutely have a structure and a
procedure to get it done, and the application asks for their debt
obligations, and in parenthesis it says, car payments, credits cards. So
the client and the customers were responding to that.
We have not in the past, for this -- for this program, we have not
done further concern about credit because this is not a mortgage that
has to be paid back. This is -- and I --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: A give-away.
MS. KRUMBINE: It is not a give-away, and I object to that.
And we have county attorneys here and we have Colleen Green here
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October 13, 2009
who goes through our agreements. These are -- you know, it is a
second mortgage, and if they sell their house, if they no longer have
homestead exemption, if they rent the property, then we come after
them to get a payback on that. So it is not a give-away.
You know, two weeks ago, Commissioner Fiala, you asked how
we could get more rehab money out to improve neighborhoods. This
is a program that's improving your neighborhoods in your commission
districts, and it is most likely improving the values of the homes
around them. So I would hardly call it a give-away, and so I object to
that.
And there is a way to get the money back. That is in process with
the agreements that we have. So I don't see -- and I defer to the
county attorney and I defer to the Sheriffs Office, but part of this
program is, we have an agreement with the homeowner and saying, if
you comply and do this, this, and this, then the grant stays with you.
If you don't comply, then we come after you for the money, and that is
our agreement with them.
And so, you know, I have stood with the contractor and said, you
know, our PO with them is a legal document. He's done the work.
He's complied with it. We've approved of his work. If the issue is
with the client or the customer, that's why we have these agreements.
Then let us work with the Sheriffs Office and the customer and do our
due diligence in going after the client just like we have in our
mortgage documents.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But have we done anything about
going after the purchaser?
MS. KRUMBINE: Not in this situation yet because -- because
we're waiting on the sheriff, and you know -- and nothing's been paid
out yet, so you know -- so technically, there is no reason to go after
them yet.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. I -- I don't want to belabor
this, but it seems to me it makes no difference what's going on with
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October 13, 2009
the sheriff. If we've got an agreement that says you can have this
money to improve your property but there are certain requirements,
and if you don't meet the requirements, we're -- we get your property,
okay. If that's your understanding?
MS. KRUMBINE: We don't get their property, but we ask for
their money back. We -- you know, we say, you need to pay this
back.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Oh. You're going after the
individual or you're going after the property?
MS. KRUMBINE: No. We go -- they -- that grant becomes due
and payable.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. BROCK: Therein, you just hit on it.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. It's the individual who has
to pay it back. The individual doesn't have the money.
MR. BROCK: That's the whole purpose of requiring the
taxpayer to step into the second position. We're only inferior in going
after the property to the first mortgage holder, as opposed to having to
go after someone individually that, pardon my expression, doesn't
have a window -- I won't even go there.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: A pot.
MR. BROCK: A pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of. I
think that's the way the old saw goes. Therein lies the problem.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. So we can't -- we can't
bridge that gap? We can't get to the property?
MR. BROCK: That's correct. That's the entire problem. The
Internal Revenue Service has a $40,000 tax lien that is superior to
anything that you might do. Therein lies the problem.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And -- okay. I got it now.
MR. BROCK: You got it?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I got it now.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And Commissioner Henning?
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October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, thanks. Commissioner,
we shouldn't be dealing with this on public comments. This is
ludicrous. He can either petition the Board of Commissioners -- he's
gotten more than his public petition, or Marcy could put something on
the agenda. I mean, we can't resolve this thing under here, because it's
a matter of he said, she said. We're not -- we don't have anything --
anything in writing here. We can't ask staff questions on anything in
writing. So why are we belaboring this? Why don't we move on?
And he's stepping to the mike again.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, he's -- yes, but I'm not calling on
him. I'm calling on Jim Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. And if -- I think
what he's about ready to tell you is he's already signed up for the next
meeting under public petition, so you already figured it out. Thank
you. That's great, wonderful.
And forgive me, Commissioner Henning, but it's been intentional
having him here last meeting, this meeting, and the next meeting is
because there's a problem here that needs to be resolved. Even though
it might be a shared problem with the Clerk's Office, it's still a
problem we all have jointly to be able to try to get around.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: County manager's --
MR. BROCK: Commissioner, may I make an observation that I
think that will help you with this?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Good.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I was interrupted.
MR. BROCK: This is -- I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Hang on. I was interrupted.
MR. BROCK: Let me step back from the microphone and let
you take over.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: This is -- this is an issue the
county manager needs to resolve, not the Board of Commissioners.
MR. BROCK: But let me point out to you, you know, one of the
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October 13, 2009
issues that we are trying to protect, and this is something that the
county attorney just pointed out to me, is there's a big picture over
here that we're helping the citizens with this program. We're helping a
lot of citizens with this program. Then there's this little picture over
here, that is, this particular individual situation where we've got a
contractor that potentially stands to lose as a consequence of them
engaging or of this undertaking in good faith. Okay.
But let me tell you what you have the potential of losing, and that
is the entire program if, in fact, HUD was to come in here and say,
your program is replete with fraud, so they can take the entire program
away from you, and you certainly, certainly do not want that to
happen.
So that's the big picture. We have to comply with the
requirements that they impose upon us in the big picture, and then
we've got to apply that and understand the little picture, but we can't
disregard the big picture simply to address the individual issue.
And I'm going to -- unless somebody has another question, I'm
right in the middle of something.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I've got a couple guys still up here. But
how do we solve this? I mean, is being that -- I don't know. Maybe
he's got an answer. Can you figure out what we can do, whether it's
the county manager, the housing department, us, you, whoever?
MR. BROCK: As I understand it in communicating with my
staff, we're in the process of continuously dealing with this, okay. So
this is not -- we have not made a finite, forever-after decision with
regard to this.
I think we have been working with Jeffs office, we have been
working with my counsel, we have been working with a multitude of
people, and as I understand it, we have worked several times with Leo,
the County Manager's Office.
Have they not been working with you some, Leo?
MR.OCHS: Yes, sir.
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October 13, 2009
MR. BROCK: They've been working with Leo some, and they
have actually been working with the vendor some. But we're still
working through the issues with this and trying to figure out a way to
deal with all of the issues, and we just haven't gotten there yet that's
it's going to help the so-called little picture.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. BROCK: Okay?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, okay. I'm going to jump to
another subject. We need to find a way to solve this problem, keep it
from happening again. So I would like to see us give the county
manager direction about working out a procedure so that this doesn't
happen anymore.
MR.OCHS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And you've got to tell us what we
need to do to help you with that, okay?
MR.OCHS: Yep.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's serious, so -- and I'll just
conclude by saying, I don't know how we can help you, you know. I
wish I could say we could -- we could authorize the payment, but
there's nothing we can do, so I don't know how we solve the problem
for you.
MR. GUERRERO: The best thing is to allow me to come and
speak on this, and I do appreciate the time here. It's not easy to talk
about this, because the expectation was quite different --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
MR. GUERRERO: -- good faith and to the -- to the procedures
and qualifications and so forth led me to get -- to be a part of the
program. It was my first project under the program.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
MR. GUERRERO: So I was quite, you know, set back by it, not
only by -- not only in terms of my expectations, but also in terms of
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October 13, 2009
the business, too.
So at the same time, there is -- there is -- and I've taken the lead
-- many contractors under this program are quite disappointed in some
of the procedures, and I have to be frank, in both finance and housing
and -- over these programs with SHIP, DR! and HOME and so forth,
and these are affordable housing programs, and contractors are
basically small contractors that are working with you over these
programs, so that's their ways of making a living, too.
So it -- although -- although I hate to be here, I have to be here.
And, you know -- and so we put it in a public petition for the next
meeting, too, so we could try to get closer and closer.
Remember, it only gets worse because I have subs, and I -- I have
a business, and other people talk to me and I talk to them, and I'm
talking about subs -- other general contractors who are in this
program. They're completely, completely disappointed. And they
depend on me because I'm the one that is not afraid, I suppose, but at
the same time I need work, too.
And so this is important, and I do appreciate your time in letting
me be here.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I think you need to knO\V that
all of us are sympathetic to the problem. We'd like to get it solved. I
know Marcy wants to get this thing solved. Nobody here did this
intentionally.
MR. GUERRERO: Oh, I understand that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And what we're trying to do is
resolve a very, very difficult situation that none of us really can
control. So hopefully you'll continue to be patient, and hopefully in
the end it will work out okay.
MR. GUERRERO: Yes, sir, I will. Thank you, Madam Chair.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I think enough's been said.
Thank you very much for hearing all this.
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October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
And Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think the bottom line is, we try to
work with everybody, and I think that we hope that everybody is up
front and truthful, but obviously this particular individual lied on his
application in regards to past money that was owed to the IRS.
So I'm not sure how you're going to address that unless you give
everybody a lie detector test and figure out if they're lying to you
when they're filling out the application.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Waterboard them.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: There we go. Yeah, maybe we
need to do that. But I understand the dilemma this gentleman's in, but
obviously if people that come forth to ask for this funding -- and if
they're not truthful, I'm not sure how you're going to catch it all the
time, but hopefully there's -- there is a measure that can be instituted
that will -- we can catch it before it gets to this level, and maybe we
can all work together to be more due diligent.
But again, you take the people for face value. You work with
people and you try to be up front and honest with them, and you
expect the same thing in return, but obviously it doesn't always work
out that way.
But Marcy, keep up the good work.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
And now, County Manager, do you have any comments in
closing?
Item #15
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am, we're on Item 15, staff and
commission general communications. I have one item, ma'am, very
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October 13, 2009
quickly.
Back on the meeting of the board on the 29th of September you
entered into a funding agreement with the clerk for the FY 1 0 budget,
and the basis of that agreement was the -- previously had entered into
a mediation agreement that was part of the court-ordered mediation for
the lawsuit at the time.
This is the document that has the four parameters. And I wanted
to, in all transparency, draw your attention to Item 4 and just get the
board's concurrence if I can.
Item 4 essentially says that effective July 1, 2009, going forward,
that the interest income is -- on board investments is income of the
board, and this is the operative line. It says, unless otherwise directed
by the county, the clerk shall deposit to the board's general fund not
less than monthly all such income and interest to be allocated and
expended solely as authorized by the board.
Now, I spoke personally with Mr. Brock the day after the board
took this action, and since July 1 when the statute changed, the clerk
has been allocating the interest income back to the principal funds and
not to the general fund.
In bringing our final budget to you that you adopted for FYI0,
our staff adapted the budget to that new interest-allocation scheme,
and I'm asking for your authorization -- because the way I read this, it
says, unless you otherwise direct, the clerk still has to send the money
to your general fund, and our budget in 2010 is set up for that interest
to go back to the principal.
And the clerk is more than happy to do that. He's been doing that
since 1 July. And I -- and again, just as a matter of full transparency --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So moved.
MR. OCHS: -- if the board can direct that we continue to ask --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
MR. OCHS: -- the clerk to allocate the interest back to those
principal accounts, I would appreciate that.
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October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion already on the
floor by Commissioner Coletta, a second by Commissioner Halas, and
a question by Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. And -- so you budget it
back to the principal where it originated from?
MR.OCHS: Yes, sir. What we did was we backed out these
transfers that we typically do from the general fund to these other
operating funds. Now it -- it's basically a net impact to the budget
because we no longer will make those general fund transfers out and
just keep that in the general fund because they are receiving the
interest income directly into their funds.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Well, the only concern
that I have with -- and if the clerk is in agreement, we need to
memorialize it with something, maybe even a resolution or something,
a joint resolution, because this is a settlement agreement. And if
there's an addendum to it or something like that, wouldn't you want to
make it more formal, Mr. Klatzkow?
MR. KLATZKOW: It's just board direction. Where do you want
the interest to go? Do you want it to go to the individual accounts
where it came from, or do you want it to go into your general fund?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can we get something in writing
from the clerk that he's okay to go -- deposit it within the principal?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah, this is it, settlement agreement. He's
okay with that. He's just looking for board direction.
MR.OCHS: He's currently allocating the interest to the principal
fund.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But that isn't what the
settlement agreement says. That's my point.
MR. OCHS : Well, yeah. The settlement agreements says, unless
you otherwise direct, it's all going to go to the general fund, and what
you're doing here is directing that it goes back to the principal.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm sorry. I missed that little
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October 13, 2009
detail.
MR. OCHS: That's all.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It was just a small one.
MR.OCHS: That was all I had, Madam Chair. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All right. So I have a motion on the floor
and a second --
MR.OCHS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- to approve that. All those in favor,
signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And that's it, Leo?
MR.OCHS: That's all I have, yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: The amended red light ordinance is on its
way to Tallahassee as we speak. It will be there tomorrow.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, you're fast. Thank you.
Commissioner Henning, any comments?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, thank you.
Leo, on our one-on-one, wasn't you supposed to bring something
up about our discussion? I don't remember what it was, do you?
MR.OCHS: We talked about the local vendor preference, sir.
Was that -- that was my note.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That was with me.
MR. OCHS: I know, but I had had a discussion with
Commissioner Henning on that same subject.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I just don't recall.
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October 13, 2009
MR. OCHS: That was the item.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll look at -- it was the item?
MR.OCHS: Yes. And I've got Mr. Carnell here if you wanted
to get into that discussion. But we were -- he told me he was working
with you on some ideas about how to improve our local vendor
preference, and you had a question about location as it existed in our
continuing contract, RFP.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, I'm sorry. I'll look at my
notes.
MR.OCHS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm sorry.
Yeah, there's one other thing. Follow up on a correspondence
you received from the president of the Eastern Collier Chamber of
Commerce. There are residents' concerns that in this census-taking
coming up that the focus is going to be in the area of -- in Hendry
County, Clewiston, Immokalee, and so on and so forth, where we have
a lot of minorities, and there's not going to be -- I mean, they're
targeting that area, but the concern is, from the community residents
that I've talken (sic) to is, hey, we just want a complete count. And if
the concern is and the focus is in those minorities, that will change the
makeup of our representation in Collier County.
So I'm going to engage with the congressmen and maybe the
senators in the State of Florida to get some accountability of, is the
local census-taking going to be a complete census or just Eastern
Collier County or Eastern -- or in the middle of the state, so that's all
I've got.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You know, I'm glad you're going to do
that, and just go for it. I know I'm trying to -- my second meeting for
the census is going to be on the 29th -- 29th of October -- 29th of
October here in the commission chambers. I want as many people as
possible to come.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, okay.
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October 13, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: If you can have your aide send
me the time and the date --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, yeah.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- and I will forward it on to
some people --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Good.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- that are very interested in this.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Good.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And they're very interested in it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And I'm glad you brought this up because
when we had our first informal meeting here, which was just about a
week ago, one of the people that was in attendance pointed out that the
speaker there mentioned migrant farm workers 1 7 times in that half
hour, and -- and this fellow that was in the audience said, I hope we're
supposed to be counting more than just migrant farm workers, and I
said, that's what we're all doing here. We want to get a complete
count.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And he said, well, they seem to be prone
to going into Eastern Collier. And so we want to make sure that the
focus is countywide, countywide, and that it's fair, because we realize
that can skew everything if it is not.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's going to totally change the
representation.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Right. So I will make sure that my aide
gets this information to you, in fact, to all of the commissioners
because we'd like to have good representation from all parts.
What we wanted to do was get a list of all of the different
homeowner associations throughout Collier County and at least get the
president of each one to also attend or at least distribute information to
their residents because we want -- we want representation from
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October 13, 2009
everyplace. Thank you. I'm glad you brought that up.
Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. I guess a question would
be, is representation, is it based upon voters or is it based upon actual
bodies that are there, even illegal immigrants? Does anybody know
that?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: It's everybody.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Everybody.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Everybody.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. Well, I do know that one
of the biggest problems in the past, and it will still remain a problem
this time around, is trying to get a count on the migrants that are
moving all over the place, and that's always been a real issue, and they
never seem to be able to get to that point they really got the count.
You're right, it's got to be universal, and I hope that your meeting
brings around something positive.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Boy, me, too. Me, too.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I got just two things very
briefly.
I attended last Saturday the opening of the Ten Thousand Islands
National Wildlife Refuge parking area down there. It might not sound
like much, but what a jewel. This is an area that people couldn't just
generally access. The road has always been closed off. Now you
have a parking area you can park. They've got a beautiful trail you
can walk down. They've got a place to go kayaking. They have all
sorts of bird watching activities.
At that point in time -- when they had this opening, they had a
demonstration of kayaking, they had kayaks for people to take out.
And I'll tell you what, it's a real jewel. They had fishing taking place
there by the Naples Fly Fishing Club, and you ought to see the fish
these people were catching right from the edge of the road. It's really
remarkable.
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October 13, 2009
So if someone has a young child and they'd like to really
experience something, this would be a wonderful place to take them,
especially with the cool weather arriving, as it is this weekend.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can I ask you a question on
this?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is that past the Port of the Isles?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No. It's this side of the Port of
the Isles, if I'm correct, yeah.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Big sigh out there?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: There's a sign right there. It's
the only parking area that they have down there with a new parking
lot. It's beautiful.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: By the Collier State Park. The
other side of Collier State Park, right, the east side of it?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, yes, the other side of that.
The other thing I wanted to bring up -- and I think I brought this
up once before, and I just want to make sure I explored that possibility
fully. I took some time to visit the Immokalee library this past week
and -- to see the resources being used there. And it was the middle of
the day and every single computer was in use, and they said they
generally have a waiting number of people.
Back about four or five months ago I visited the Golden Gate
library, and I experienced the same thing there. My question is very
simple. I mean, with all the people we have laid off, if we have
surplus laptop computers, it would be a wonderful thing to be able to
put them in the libraries for people to use when the other ones aren't
available where they can take them to different tables and work with
them. That's a suggestion. Possibly somebody can get back to rne
with some sort of answer in the future.
MR. OCHS : Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's a good idea.
Page 220
October 13, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yep. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: What time of the year will the
census be taken?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: In the winter.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: What time?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: March 15th, I believe it is. And it's not
going to be taken door to door. They're going to be sending out to
every home in Collier County on the 15th of March a form to fill out.
It's going to be a very simple form, and people are then expected to
return that form.
I've got a copy of it in my office. I'll see if I can't get everybody
a whole packet from this census thing. I'll try and get that done right
away and -- anyway.
Then, according to what we learned the other day at this first
meeting with the census people, then the residences that have not
replied, they're going to -- they have census people hired. It won"t be
us. It will be census people that they've hired to go out and knock on
these doors. And if they don't get somebody the first time, they'll go
back a second, third, fourth, and even fifth time. After five, they're not
going to try any longer, but they're going to knock on each of the
doors that have not replied.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Now, did you say that we're going
to get things mailed to everyone's address?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: One hundred percent of the
addresses?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's what they say. They've had people
going out right now with these -- with these like little machines, these
hand-held things, to each residence, and they have to stand five feet
from the front door or something and they push this thing and it gives
Page 221
October 13, 2009
you an identification number, a residence number on this thing that
they're -- and they're all recorded. I know I had somebody actually
knock on my door just to say that he's--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I did, too.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You, too -- that he's just taking that. And
then they send those back, so I guess those are for all the addresses
that they will then send on the 15th of March.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Thank you. That's all I
have.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I don't have anything at this time.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to adjourn. Oh, we've
got you, okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah, just me. Yeah, you keep trying to
cut me out of here.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to adjourn.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I just wanted to say one thing and that is,
in the Collier Citizen, an article was written this past week, and it said
that the county commission limits their speakers to ten, and I don't
know that we've ever done that ever. I mean, we'll have 36 speakers
and 18 speakers. But anyway, just for anybody who happened to read
that, that is wrong. We never limit --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Who's the author?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Mark Strain. We've never limited our
speakers. In fact, we encourage speakers and we listen to everybody.
Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Suggestion. I think the chair
should write a letter to the Collier Citizen addressing this.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I did.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Because I mean, the impression
-- oh, thank you. Because the impression is is that we have limited it,
and that's not true. That's absolutely a falsehood. We stay here till the
Page 222
,"" ~'W;~""'__ ..-_Iil.I!l.... - _,'_'_..
October 13, 2009
middle of the night --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I know, and we have.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- when people sign up, and I
would love to see a retraction printed.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, I wrote -- as soon as I found out
about it yesterday, I printed -- I sent them an email.Isit all right if I
send everybody a copy of the email that I sent to --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Sure.
MR. KLATZKOW: Just as long as nobody responds.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, good. I'll send you all one.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'm going to respond.
MR. KLATZKOW: And I don't know about it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And now I think I heard a motion to
adjourn.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes, you did.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. From Commissioner Coyle and--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- a second from Commissioner Halas.
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(No response.)
* * * * Commissioner Halas moved, seconded by Commissioner
Henning and carried unanimously that the following items under the
Consent and Summary Agendas be approved and/or adopted * * * *
Item #16Al
Page 223
October 13, 2009
AN ENCROACHMENT AGREEMENT FOR LOT 12,
CANDLEWOOD - FOR REPLACEMENT OF POOL
ENCLOSURE AND THE METAL LANAI ROOF
Item #16A2
RECORDING THE FINAL PLAT OF MARBELLA LAKES, LTNIT
ONE, APPROVAL OF THE STANDARD FORM
CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT AND
APPROVAL OF THE AMOUNT OF THE PERFORMANCE
SECURITY - W/STIPULA TIONS
Item #16A3
RECORDING THE FINAL PLAT OF WING SOUTH AIRPARK
EXTENSION, APPROVAL OF THE STANDARD FORM
CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT AN"D
APPROV AL OF THE AMOUNT OF THE PERFORMANCE
SECURITY - W/STIPULA TIONS
Item #16A4
RELEASES RELATING TO TWO (2) ORDERS OF THE SPECIAL
MAGISTRATE AGAINST PROPERTIES OWNED BY ROBERTO
BOLLT, TRUSTEE, ORANGE TREE ASSOCIATION - TOT1\L
COST OF RECORDING RELEASES IS $20.00
Item #16A5
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE WATER UTILITY FACILITY
FOR HOOTERS OF FLORIDA - WITH THE RELEASE OF ANY
Page 224
October 13, 2009
UTILITIES PERFORMANCE SECURITY (UPS)
Item #16B 1
PURCHASE OF 2.73 ACRES OF UNIMPROVED PROPERTY
WHICH IS REQUIRED FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A
STORMW A TER DETENTION AND TREATMENT POND FOR
PHASE II OF THE V ANDERBIL T BEACH ROAD EXTENSI()N
PROJECT. PROJECT NO. 60168, PHASE II (FISCAL IMPACT:
$68~700.00) - LOCATED ON 12TH AVENUE NE
Item #16B2
SUPPLEMENT AL AGREEMENT FOR THE SALE OF FILL
WITH AVE MARIA DEVELOPMENT, LLLP AND AUTHOR1ZES
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE DOCUMENT (PROJECT
#60044) - WITH A RECORDING COST OF $10.00
Item # 16B3
SELECTION OF PBS&J UNDER INVITATION TO NEGOTI1\TE
(ITN) #07-3947 PROFESSIONAL CONSTRUCTION
ENGINEERING AND INSPECTION (CEI) SERVICES SR 84
(RADIO ROAD TO CR 951), AND AWARD A CONTRACT FOR
PROJECT NO. 60073 IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,363,917 WITH
REIMBURSEMENT FROM THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION - FOR THE SIX LANING OF DAVIS
BOULEVARD
Item #16Cl
AMENDMENT TWO TO THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT
Page 225
October 13, 2009
BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND WASTE MANAGEMENT
INC., OF FLORIDA, FOR SOLID WASTE, RECYCLABLE
MATERIALS, AND YARD TRASH COLLECTION SERVICES
TO PROVIDE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGES, AND
AMENDMENT TWO TO THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT
BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND CHOICE
ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES OF COLLIER, INC.,
PROVIDING FOR ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGES AND
UPDATE THE AGREEMENT TO ALIGN BILLING AND RATES
WHICH MEET FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT
AGENCY DEBRIS REMOVAL GUIDELINES FOR EQUIPMENT
AND LABOR REIMBURSEMENTS; AND, PROVIDE FOR BEST
WEIGHING PRACTICES FOR ACCURATE MEASURING A"ND
MONITORING
Item #16C2 - Withdrawn (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
RECOMMENDATION TO TERMINATE THE CONTRACT WITH
DOUGLAS N. HIGGINS, INC., BID #08-5078 MASTER PUMP
STATION 302 REHABILITATION FOR CONVENIENCE - DUE
TO THE SCOPE CHANGES NECESSARY FOR THE WORK ON
THE MASTER PUMP REHABILITATION THE PROJECT WILL
BE RE-SCOPED AND RESUBMITTED FOR BIDS
Item #16Dl
A CONTRACT AMENDMENT FOR A DISASTER RECOVERY
INITIATIVE (DRI) SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN
IMMOKALEE HELPING OUR PEOPLE IN EMERGENCIES, INC.
(IHOPE) AND COLLIER COUNTY. THIS CONTRACT
AMENDMENT WILL UPDATE THE CURRENT PROJECT
WORK SCHEDULE AND DEFINE METHODS OF PAYMENT -
Page 226
October 13, 2009
EXTENDING THE PROJECT COMPLETION DATE AND
ALLOW FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THREE HOMES INSTEAD
OF TWO ORIGINALLY SPECIFIED
Item #16D2
WORK ORDER ADDITION #1 TO WORK ORDER 45-108308
WITH COASTAL PLANNING & ENGINEERING FOR THE
PHYSICAL MONITORING OF THE SOUTH COUNTY
BEACHES UNDER COUNTYINAPLES PHYSICAL
MONITORING PROJECT (NO. 90536.1) IN THE AMOUNT e)F
$65,511.36 ON A TIME & MATERIAL NOT - TO-EXCEED BASIS.
THE NET CONTRACTUAL VALUE OF SERVICES WILL
TOTAL A NOT TO EXCEED AMOUNT OF $227~635
Item #16D3
NAPLES WHOLESALE BAIT AS A SOLE SOURCE SUPPLIER
OF LIVE BAIT FOR RESALE AT CAXAMBAS PARK, PORT OF
THE ISLANDS MARINA, GOODLAND BOATING PARK, AND
COCOHA TCHEE RIVER PARK MARINA WITH AN
ESTIMATED FISCAL YEAR 2010 EXPENDITURE OF
APPROXIMA TEL Y $207,000, AND APPROVE A SEVEN DAY
PAYMENT SCHEDULE - DUE TO THE INDUSTRY'S NATURE
TO PAY SUPPLIERS ON DEMAND FOR THEIR DAILY CATCH
Item # 16D4
A SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENT WITH COLLIER COUNTY
HUNGER AND HOMELESS COALITION (CCHHC) PROVIDING
FOR A $102,155 HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT
(HUD) CONTINUUM OF CARE (COC) GRANT TO SUPPORT
Page 227
October 13, 2009
THE HOMELESS MANAGEMENT INFORMATION SYSTEM
(HMIS)
Item #16D5
RESOLUTION 2009-237: SUPPORTING THE PARKS AND
RECREATION DEPARTMENT IN SEEKING NATIONAL
ACCREDITATION AS A VALID AND PROPER PUBLIC
PURPOSE AND ADOPT A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE
EXPENDITURE OF BUDGETED FUNDS TO HOST THE
ACCREDITATION COMMISSION~ NOT TO EXCEED $4~150
Item #16D6
STAFF TO DEVELOP AND ADVERTISE, AN ORDINANCE
ESTABLISHING POLICIES, PROCEDURES AND STANDARD
FORMS TO BE USED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS WHEN SELLING AND CONVEYING REAL
PROPERTY ACQUIRED UNDER THE NEIGHBORHOOD
STABILIZATION PROGRAM OR ANOTHER STATE OR
FEDERAL GRANT PROGRAM
Item #16D7
INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT WHICH PROVIDES FOR
SERVICES AND EDUCATION VIA MULTI-COUNTY
AGRICUL TURAL EXTENSION AGENTS OF THE UNIVERSITY
OF FLORIDA INSTITUTE OF FOOD AND AGRICULTURAL
SCIENCES EXTENSION AND AUTHORIZE $27,386.23 AS
COLLIER COUNTY'S PROPORTIONATE SHARE OF THIS
AGREEMENT - PROVIDING THE AGENTS WITH NECESSARY
EXPERIENCE AND TECHNICAL EXPERTISE TO SERVE THE
Page 228
October 13, 2009
NEEDS OF COMMERCIAL AGRICULTURE WITHIN THE
PARTICIPATING COUNTIES
Item #16El
AWARD BID # 09-5253 PURCHASE AND INSTALLATION OF
FLOOR COVERING TO WAYNE WILES FLOOR COVERINGS,
INC., ACOUSTI ENGINEERING CO. OF FL., AND CIANOS TILE
AND MARBLE FOR FLOOR COVERING SERVICES - FOR THE
MAINTENANCE, REPAIR AND REPLACEMENT OF
FLOORING IN COUNTY-OWNED STRUCTURES
Item # 16E2
MODIFICATION OF CONTRACT #08-5009 WITH SIRE
TECHNOLOGIES IN THE AMOUNT OF $189,575 USING
EXISTING SAP CAPITAL PROJECT FUNDS FOR THE
PURPOSE OF EXTENDING THE COUNTY'S ELECTRONIC
CONTENT MANAGEMENT (ECM) SYSTEM FOR THE
IMPLEMENTATION OF AN AGENDA AUTOMATION
APPLICATION - AND THE COST OF SOFTWARE LICENSES
Item # 16E3
SURPLUS SALES NET REVENUES FROM THE INFORMATION
TECHNOLOGY (IT FUND 505) INVENTORY TO THAT FUND-
TO DEFRAY THE COST OF REFRESHING IT
INFRASTRUCTURE SUCH AS THE NETWORK, STORAGE
AND SERVERS ALLOWING USER DEPARTMENTS TO
OFFSET COST
Item #16E4 - Withdrawn (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Page 229
October 13, 2009
RECOMMENDATION TO AWARD BID #09-5254 AND
CONTRACTS FOR GROUNDS MAINTENANCE OF COLLIER
COUNTY GOVERNMENT FACILITIES TO HANNULA
LANDSCAPING & IRRIGATION, INC. AS PRIMARY, AND
FLORIDA LAND MAINTENANCE, INC. D/B/A COMMERCIAL
LAND MAINTENANCE AS SECONDARY FOR THE
ESTIMATED ANNUAL AMOUNT OF $393~366
Item #16E5
AWARD BID #09-5191R COURT REPORTING SERVICES TO
GREGORY COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC., FOR
ESTIMATED ANNUAL EXPENDITURE OF $100,000.00 - FOR
RECORDING & TRANSCRIPTION OF DEPOSITIONS,
MEETING MINUTES, AND TESTIMONY FOR COURT
HEARINGS IN MULTIPLE DEPARTMENTS
Item # 16E6
REPORT AND RATIFY STAFF-APPROVED CHANGE ORDERS
AND CHANGES TO WORK ORDERS TO BOARD-APPROVED
CONTRACTS - FOR THE PERIOD OF AUGUST 26, 2009
THROUGH SEPTEMBER 23~ 2009
Item #16E7
AWARD BID #09-5260, JANITORIAL SERVICES TO ABM
JANITORIAL SERVICES-SOUTHEAST, LLC IN THE AMOUNT
OF $1,383,053.94 TO PROVIDE JANITORIAL SERVICES TO
COUNTY OWNED AND OPERATED FACILITIES
Page 230
October 13,2009
Item # 16E8
LICENSE AGREEMENT WITH KMART CORPORATION ON
BEHALF OF THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT FOR THE USE OF
VACANT SPACE FOR THE HINl VACCINATION CAMPAIGN
AND TO APPROVE A BUDGET AMENDMENT AT AN
ESTIMATED COST OF $50,000 - LOCATED AT THE CORNER
OF COLLIER BOULEVARD AND EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL
WITHIN THE FREEDOM SQUARE PLAZA
Item #16F1
AWARDED VOLUNTEER FIRE ASSISTANCE MATCHING
(50/50) GRANT FROM THE FLORIDA DIVISION OF
FORESTRY FOR THE PURCHASE OF VHF RADIOS AND
APPROVAL OF NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS -
ALLOWING FOR COMMUNICATION WITH THE DIVISION OF
FORESTRY AND OTHER FEDERAL AGENCIES
Item #16F2
APPROPRIA TE INSURANCE PROCEEDS IN THE AMOUNT OF
$197,726.00 AND TO APPROVE A BUDGET AMENDMENT TO
FUND THE REPLACEMENT OF A DAMAGED AMBULANCE
FOR THE EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES DEPARTMENT
IN THE AMOUNT OF $199,816.00 - WHICH WAS DAMAGED
IN A MOTOR VEHICLE ACCIDENT IN NOVEMBER OF 2008
Item #16F3
AGREEMENT FOR MANAGEMENT SERVICES WITH THE
PELICAN BAY FOUNDATION, INC. IN THE AMOUNT OF
Page 231
October 13, 2009
$103,262 - FOR A STRATEGIC MASTER PLAN PROVIDIN(]
FOR IMPROVEMENT/ENHANCEMENTS TO THE
STREETSCAPE INCLUDING LANDSCAPING, LIGHTING,
PARKS~ AND PATHWAYS
Item #16F4
RESOLUTION 2009-238: ADOPT A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS,
CONTRIBUTIONS OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2009-10 ADOPTED BUDGET
Item #16G 1
STAFF TO DRAFT A RESOLUTION FOR BCC APPROVAL TO
DESIGNATE THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 4315 BAYSHORE
DRIVE AND THE THREE ADJACENT PARCELS OWNED BY
THE CRA AS A BROWNFIELDS AREA, AND TO DIRECT
STAFF TO ENSURE PUBLIC HEARINGS ARE CONDUCTED IN
ACCORDANCE WITH FLORIDA STATUTES IN ORDER T()
ACHIEVE BROWNFIELDS AREA DESIGNATION - AS
DETAILED IN THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Item #16H1
COMMISSIONER HALAS' REQUEST FOR REIMBURSEMENT
FOR ATTENDING A FUNCTION SERVING A VALID PUBLIC
PURPOSE. HE ATTENDED THE 27TH ANNUAL FREEDOM
FUND DINNER AND AWARDS CEREMONY AND
CELEBRATION OF THE 100TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE
NAACP ON SATURDAY, OCTOBER 3,2009, AT THE NAPLES
HILTON. $65.00 TO BE PAID FROM COMMISSIONER HALAS'
Page 232
October 13, 2009
TRAVEL BUDGET - LOCATED AT 5111 T AMIAMI TRAIL
NORTH~ NAPLES
Item #1611
MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS TO FILE FOR RECORD WITH
ACTION AS DIRECTED
The following miscellaneous correspondence, as presented by the
Board of County Commissioners, has been directed to the various
departments as indicated:
Page 233
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
October 13,2009
1. MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS TO FILE FOR RECORD WITH ACTION AS DIRECTED:
A. Districts:
B. Minutes:
6)
7)
1) North Naples Fire Control and Rescue District:
Annual Financial Report for FY ending 09/30/08; District's Audit
for FY ending 09/30/08; District Map; Registered office and agent
form; schedule of regular meetings for FY 09/10; Public Facilities
Report; Five Year Strategic Plan; Resolution 09-039 adopting final
millage rate for FY 09/10; Resolution 09-040 adopting final impact
fee rates for FY 09/10; Resolution 09-041 adopting Final Budget for
FY 09110 for General Fund and Inspection Fee Fund; Resolution 09-
042 adopting Final Budget for Impact Fee Fund for FY 09/10;
Budgets for FY 09/10 General Fund, Impact Fee Fund and
Inspection Fee Fund.
1)
Affordable Housing Commission:
Minutes of June 1, 2009; August 3, 2009.
2)
Airport Authority:
Minutes of June 8,2009.
3)
Animal Services Advisory Board:
Minutes of June 16,2009; July 21,2009.
4)
Bayshore/Gateway Triangle Local Redevelopment Advisory Board:
Minutes of April 7, 2009; May 5, 2009; June 2, 2009.
5)
Collier County Coastal Advisory Committee:
Minutes of April 10, 2008; May 14,2009.
Collier County Code Enforcement Board:
Minutes of June 25, 2009; July 23,2009.
Collier County Planning Commission:
June 4,2009 Statement of Record; Minutes of July 2, 2009.
8) Contractors Licensing Board:
Minutes of June 17,2009.
9) Development Services Advisory Committee:
Minutes of July 1,2009.
10) Environmental Advisory Council:
Minutes of May 6, 2009; August 5, 2009.
11) Forest Lakes Roadway and Drainage Advisory Committee:
Agenda of August 12,2009; August 19,2009.
Minutes of February 11,2009; July 8, 2009.
12) Golden Gate Community Center Advisory Committee:
Agenda of May 4,2009; August 31,2009.
Minutes of May 4,2009; June 22, 2009.
13) Haldeman Creek Maintenance Dredging Advisory Committee:
Agenda of November 13,2008; February 12,2009; March 26,2009.
Minutes of May 8, 2008; November 13, 2008; February 26, 2009.
14) Immokalee Beautification Advisory Committee:
Agenda of June 24, 2009; July 22, 2009; August 26, 2009.
Minutes of May 20,2009; June 24, 2009; July 22,2009 no quorum.
15) Immokalee Enterprise Zone Development Agency:
Agenda of July 15,2009; August 19,2009.
Minutes of June 17,2009; July 15,2009.
16) Immokalee Local Redevelopment Advisory Board:
Agenda of July 15,2009; August 19,2009.
Minutes of June 17,2009; July 15,2009.
17) Immokalee Master Plan and Visioning Committee:
Agenda of July 15,2009 joint w/CRA; August 19,2009 joint
w/CRA.
Minutes of June 17,2009 joint w/CRA; June 22, 2009 joint w/CRA;
July 15,2009 joint w/CRA.
18) Isles of Capri Fire Control District Advisory Committee:
Minutes of July 9, 2009; August 5, 2009.
19) Lely Golf Estates Beautification Advisory Committee:
Agenda of October 30, 2008; January 15, 2009; March 19, 2009;
April 9, 2009; May 21,2009; July 16,2009; August 20,2009.
Minutes of September 18, 2008; November 20, 2008;
December 18, 2008; February 19, 2009; March 19, 2009;
April 9, 2009; May 21,2009; June 18,2009; July 16,2009.
20) Parks and Recreation Advisory Board:
Minutes of June 17,2009.
21) Pelican Bay Services Division Board:
Agenda of July 13,2009.
Minutes of July 13, 2009.
22) Radio Road Beautification Advisory Committee:
Agenda of August 19, 2008;
Minutes of July 15,2008; July 21,2009.
C. Other:
1) Animal Services Dangerous Dog Review Panel:
Minutes of August 5, 2009; August 11, 2009; August 18, 2009;
2) Clam Bay Advisory Committee:
Minutes of March 19,2009; April 16, 2009; July 16,2009.
a) Clam Bay Navigational Marker Subcommittee:
Minutes of February 6,2009.
b) Clam Bay Permit Subcommittee:
Minutes of March 6,2009.
c) Clam Bav Mangrove Maintenance and Habitat Subcommittee:
Minutes of March 18,2009.
3) Code Enforcement Special Magistrate:
Minutes of July 8, 2009; July 24, 2009; August 7, 2009;
August 21, 2009.
October 13, 2009
Item #16J1
DISBURSEMENTS FOR THE PERIOD OF SEPTEMBER 19, 2009
THROUGH SEPTEMBER 25, 2009 AND FOR SUBMISSION
INTO THE OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE BOARD
Item # 16J2
DISBURSEMENTS FOR THE PERIOD OF SEPTEMBER 29, 2009
THROUGH OCTOBER 2, 2009 AND FOR SUBMISSION INTO
THE OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE BOARD
Item #16K1
JUDGMENT TO RESPONDENT, C & T PROPERTIES
UNLIMITED, FOR PARCEL NOS. 126FEE AND 126TCE IN THE
AMOUNT OF $437,975 IN THE LAWSUIT STYLED COLLI~~
COUNTY, FLORIDA V. ALEXANDER G. CHRISTOU, ET AL.,
CASE NO. 07-4923-CA (SANTA BARBARA BOULEVARD
EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60091) (FISCAL IMPACT $53,1 75)
Item #16K2
PARTIAL STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT
OF $90,000 FOR PARCEL 124 IN THE LAWSUIT STYLED
COLLIER COUNTY V. WILLIAM PILGER, ET AL., CASE NO. 06-
1125-CA (COUNTY BARN ROAD PROJECT NUMBER 60101)
(FISCAL IMPACT $47,170)
Item #16K3
RESOLUTION 2009-239: EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES
Page 234
October 13, 2009
POLICY ADVISORY BOARD TO REVISE THE TERMS OF THE
ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS AS ESTABLISHED BY
RESOLUTION NO. 2009-37
Item #17 A - Continued to the October 27, 2009 BCC Meeting (Per
Agenda Change Sheet)
RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE PETITION V AC-PL2009-
651, DISCLAIMING, RENOUNCING AND VACATING THE
COUNTY'S AND THE PUBLICS INTEREST IN A DRAINACiE
EASEMENT OVER TRACT C02, AS DESIGNATED, AND
ACCORDING TO THE PLAT THEREOF KNOWN AS SILVER
LAKES, PHASE TWO-F, A SUBDIVISION AS RECORDED IN
PLAT BOOK 33, PAGES 37 & 38 OF THE PUBLIC RECORDS OF
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, SITUATED IN SECTION 10 &
15, TOWNSHIP 51 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA, AND BEING MORE SPECIFICALLY
DESCRIBED IN EXHIBIT A
Item #17B
RESOLUTION 2009-240: PETITION V AC-PL2009-570,
DISCLAIMING, RENOUNCING AND VACATING THE
COUNTY'S AND THE PUBLICS INTEREST IN A 5-FOOT WIDE
UTILITY EASEMENT ALONG THE SOUTHWESTERLY LINE
OF SITE #57, PELICAN BAY UNIT TEN, ACCORDING TO THE
PLAT THEREOF AS RECORDED IN PLAT BOOK 15, PAGES 64
THROUGH 67, INCLUSIVE, OF THE PUBLIC RECORDS OF
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, SITUATED PAR TL Y IN
SECTION 33, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 25 EAST AND
P ARTL Y IN SECTION 4, TOWNSHIP 49 SOUTH, RANGE 25
EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, AND BEING MORE
Page 235
October 13, 2009
SPECIFICALLY DESCRIBED IN EXHIBIT A
Item #17C
RESOLUTION 2009-241: PETITION CU-2009-AR-14231 PEACE
LUTHERAN CHURCH OF NAPLES, INC., REPRESENTED BY
MARGARET PERRY, AICP OF WILSON MILLER, INC., AND R.
BRUCE ANDERSON OF ROETZEL & ANDRESS, LP A,
REQUESTING A CONDITIONAL USE FOR A CHURCH, CHILD
CARE CENTER, AND PRIVATE SCHOOL IN THE RURAL
AGRICULTURE (A) ZONING DISTRICT PURSUANT TO
SUBSECTION 2.03.01.A.1.C. OF THE LDC. THE SUBJECT
PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 9824 IMMOKALEE ROAD, IN
SECTION 25, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST,
COLLIER COUNTY~ FLORIDA (CTS)
Item #17D
ORDINANCE 2009-49: ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE
NO. 2004-03, THE COLLIER COUNTY AIRPORT AUTHORITY
ORDINANCE, TO PROVIDE FOR THE APPOINTMENT OF AN
AL TERNA TE MEMBER
Item #17E
ORDINANCE 2009-50: ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE
NO. 91-65, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE AFFORDABLE
HOUSING ADVISORY COMMITTEE, SO AS TO REMOVE THE
REQUIREMENT FOR COMMITTEE REVIEW OF ALL
REZONING PETITIONS
Item #17F
Page 236
October 13, 2009
ORDINANCE 2009-51: ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINA"NCE
NO. 75-16, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE CONDUCT OF
MEETINGS OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS,
TO MODIFY THE PROCEDURE FOR CALLING A MEETING
TO ORDER IN THE ABSENCE OF THE CHAIRMAN AND VICE
CHAIRMAN
Item #17G - Moved to Item #8B (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #17H
ORDINANCE 2009-52: ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE
NO. 1975-16, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE PROCEDURE
FOR RECONSIDERATION OF MATTERS BY THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Item #171
RESOLUTION 2009-242: RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD,
TRANSFERS AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2009-10 ADOPTED BUDGET
Item #17J
RESOLUTION 2009-243: RESOLUTION WHICH DESIGNATES
THE CLOSE-OUT OF TWENTY (20) ADOPTED PLANNED
UNIT DEVELOPMENTS (PUDS) WHICH HAVE FULLY
COMPLETED DEVELOPMENT PURSUANT TO THEIR
DEVELOPMENT ORDERS CONSTRUCTING TO THE
AUTHORIZED DENSITY AND/OR INTENSITY AND HAVE
Page 237
October 13, 2009
BEEN FOUND BY COUNTY STAFF TO BE COMPLIANT WITH
THEIR SPECIFIC DEVELOPER COMMITMENTS
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 5:08 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL tp.,TRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
~ d4-~
DONNA FIALA, Chairman
r, ':~:;\t. 'f'~
cA~TEst~
,~. ..' ~)
rt~D~~q~..;~.: BROCK, CLERK
~" "':.}..~ -(c
.,,'t.'
<<.. to a-. frMft ,
11....... .,,,
These ~pproved by the Board on I 0 J. n ~ ~s presented
or as corrected .
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY
COURT REPORTING SERVICES, INC., BY TERRI LEWIS.
Page 238