BCC Minutes 05/26/2009 R
May 26, 2009
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, May 26, 2009
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board( s) of such
special district as has been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Donna Fiala
Fred Coyle
Jim Coletta
Frank Halas
Tom Henning
ALSO PRESENT:
Jim Mudd, County Manager
Leo Ochs, Deputy County Manager
Michael Sheffield, Assistant to the County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Sue Filson, BCC Executive Manager
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COLLIER COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
and
COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY BOARD (CRAB)
AGENDA
May 26, 2009
9:00 AM
Donna Fiala, BCC Chairman Commissioner, District 1; CRAB Vice-Chairman
Fred W. Coyle, BCC Vice-Chairman Commissioner, District 4
Jim Coletta, BCC Commissioner, District 5; CRAB Chairman
Frank Halas, BCC Commissioner, District 2
Tom Henning, BCC Commissioner, District 3
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM
MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER
WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE
AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL
RECEIVE UP TO THREE (3) MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY
THE CHAIRMAN.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53, AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES
(INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE
BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
REQUESTS TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT ON
THIS AGENDA MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING WITH EXPLANATION
TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF
THE MEETING AND WILL BE HEARD UNDER "PUBLIC PETITIONS."
May 26, 2009
Page 1
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBA TIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION OF
CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY
FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301 EAST
T AMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 252-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1 :00 P.M.
1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of to day's regular, consent and summary agenda as amended (Ex
Parte Disclosure provided by Commission members for consent and
summary agenda.)
B. April 21, 2009 - BCCIRLSA Meeting
C. April 28, 2009 - BCClRegular Meeting
3. SERVICE AWARDS: (EMPLOYEE AND ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS)
A. 20 Year Attendees
1) Emmanuel Augustin, Road Maintenance
2) Jeffrey Walker, Risk Management
B. 25 Year Attendees
1) Bill Finch, Parks & Recreation
May 26, 2009
Page 2
2) Patricia Lehnhard, Transportation Administration
3) Steven Donovan, EMS
C. 30 Year Attendees
1) David Gigee, Road Maintenance
4. PROCLAMATIONS
A. Proclamation designating the week of June 10 to June 15,2009 as World
Elder Abuse Awareness Week. To be accepted by Vicki-Jo Letchworth,
Elder Abuse Advocate, The Shelter for Abused Women & Children.
B. Proclamation recognizing Hendry Correctional Institution staff for
immediate assistance in a clean-up effort at Eagle Lakes Community Park
after an exotic algae killed the fish in the lake causing air and environmental
pollution. To be accepted by Assistant Warden of Programs Ben Mount and
Major Sooy.
C. Proclamation designating June 1 through June 7, 2009 as The Kathy & Fritz
Friday CPR & AED Awareness Week thanking them for the generous gift of
funding to allow the equipping of the Collier County Sheriffs vehicles with
the life saving Automatic External Defibrillators. To be accepted by Kathy
and Fritz Friday, Sheriff Kevin Rambosk, Danielle Broderick and Debbie
Duncan from the American Heart Association.
5. PRESENTATIONS
A. Presentation by Michael Sole, Secretary, Florida Department of
Environmental Protection regarding Comprehensive Everglades Restoration
Plan.
B. Report to the Board of County Commissioners regarding information
obtained in response to Chairman Fiala's Public Records Request to the
Clerk of the Circuit Court dated April 7, 2009 concerning legal fees and
expenses.
May 26, 2009
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C. Update from Clarence S. Tears, Jr., Director of the Big Cypress Basin, on
the Lake Trafford Restoration Project.
6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
Item 7 and 8 to be heard no sooner than 1:00 p.m., unless otherwise noted.
7. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
8. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
9. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
A. Appointment of members to the Bayshore/Gateway Triangle Local
Redevelopment Advisory Board.
B. Appointment of member to the Habitat Conservation Plan Ad Hoc
Committee.
C. Recommendation to declare a vacancy on the Affordable Housing Advisory
Committee.
10. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
A. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approves the
Clam Bay Advisory Committee Mission Statement as required in the Clam
Bay Advisory Committee Ordinance No. 2008-48. (Gary McAlpin, Coastal
Zone Management)
B. Recommend approval from the Board of County Commissioners of the
Clam Pass Maintenance Dredging Permit Application that is required to
perform tidal flushing of Clam Bay Estuary and is necessary to re-open the
pass in the event of storm closure. (Gary McAlpin, Coastal Zone
Management)
C. Recommend approval from the Board of County Commissioners to install
Navigational Markers in Outer Clam Bay for USACE permit compliance
and recommendation to move forward with permitting and installation.
(Gary McAlpin, Coastal Zone Management)
May 26, 2009
Page 4
D. Report of Collier County 2009 State Legislative Priorities and Collier
County Legislative Delegation 2009 Priorities. (Debbie Wight, Assistant to
the County Manager)
E. F or the Board of County Commissioners to consider revising the name of
the Code Enforcement Department to Code Compliance Department. (Diane
Flagg, Director, Code Enforcement, CDES)
F. This item to be heard at 4:30 p.m. Recommendation that the Board of
County Commissioners (BCC) consider the following information regarding
the Public Petition presented to the BCC on 14 April 2009 by Mr. Edward
Bakay. (Stan Chrzanowski, Sr. Engineer, Engineering & Environmental
Services Dept., CDES)
G. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners provide policy
direction concerning the acceptance of a private donation offer of $1 0,529
from the Pelican Bay Property Owners Association, Inc. to open the
Vanderbilt Beach Branch Library on Fridays, from June 1,2009 through
September 30, 2009. (Marla Ramsey, Public Services Administrator)
H. This item to be heard at 10:30 a.m. To receive guidance from the Board of
County Commissioners on a request from the Collier County Leadership
Council on Aging to use the old Golden Gate Library site for a Senior
Resource Center. (Marla Ramsey, Public Services Administrator)
I. Recommendation to approve an Agreement for Sale and Purchase with the
Naples Lodge 2010 Benevolent and Protective Order of the Elk's of the
USA, Inc., for the purchase of the Elk's Lodge Property. (Len Price,
Administrative Services Administrator)
J. This item to be heard at 1 :00 p.m. That the Board of County
Commissioners provide staff guidance as to whether to implement a
mandatory code inspection of vacant and foreclosed residential properties in
the unincorporated area of Collier County prior to sale and whether the
program should incorporate a Certificate of Use certification to document
and disclose to the potential buyer the extent to which the residential
property (i.e. single-family, condominium, townhouse, or duplex) complies
with all applicable building and zoning codes, and in considering this
proposal that the Board provide any additional guidance whether to
May 26, 2009
Page 5
implement a voluntary or mandatory code inspection of residential
properties prior to sale. (Joseph K. Schmitt, Administrator, CDES)
11. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
A. Status Report to the Board of County Commissioners regarding the 2003
Agreement and promises made by the South Florida Water Management
District with respect to the County's vacating approximately 287 miles of
roads in the Southern Golden Gate Estates.
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
16. CONSENT AGENDA - All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of each
item. If discussion is desired by a member of the Board, that item(s) will be removed
from the Consent Agenda and considered separately.
A. COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT & ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES
1) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the water and sewer
utility facilities for Professional Village at Northbrooke.
2) Recommendation to grant final approval of the drainage
improvements for the final plat of Pine Air Lakes Unit Five with the
drainage improvements being privately maintained. There are no
roadway improvements associated with this final plat.
May 26, 2009
Page 6
3) Recommendation to grant final approval of the roadway (private) and
drainage improvements for the final plat of Jasmine Lake-A (Cypress
Woods PUD) with the roadway and drainage improvements being
privately maintained.
4) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approve a
resolution, establishing a Vehicle for Hire Administrative Manual,
providing definitions and exemptions, and establishing regulatory
guidelines and requirements consistent with the Collier County
Vehicle for Hire Ordinance. (This item is a companion to 17E)
5) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the water utility
facilities for Heritage Bay Affordable Housing.
6) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the water utility
facility for Heritage Bay, Unit 2 A - Phase 1.
7) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the water and sewer
utility facilities for Heritage Bay, Phase 1 B-2 (Lion's Bay Court).
8) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the water and sewer
utility facilities for Heritage Bay Commons, Phase 1.
9) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the water and sewer
utility facilities for Heritage Bay Commons, Phase 2.
10) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the water utility
facility for Heritage Bay, Phase 2A-Phase 2.
11) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the water and sewer
utility facilities for Heritage Bay, Phase 2A.
12) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the water and sewer
utility facilities for Heritage Bay, Phase 2B.
B. TRANSPORTATION SERVICES
1) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approves a
Resolution authorizing the Chairman of the Board of County
Commissioners to execute a Local Agency Program Agreement with
May 26, 2009
Page 7
the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) in which Collier
County would be reimbursed up to $233,000 for street lighting
installation in Everglades City along CR29 (Collier Avenue) and
along Broadway from the Town Center east to CR29 (FDOT Project
#420885-1-58-01).
2) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approves
and authorize its Chairman to sign a Resolution, Two Separate
Memorandums of Agreement pertaining to establishing an escrow
account to deposit funds pertaining to the relocation of utilities and
installation of an Intelligent Traffic System in connection with the
Florida Department of Transportation's (FDOT) improvements to 1-
75/1mmokalee Road Interchange that includes required modifications
to Immokalee Road, county Project #66042, allowing for an 8-lane
section from the Strand Blvd east through the interchange to Tarpon
Bay Blvd (the Road Project), and a Locally Funded Agreement and a
Second Amendment to that Locally Funded Agreement executed on
March 20, 2007, all pertaining to the Road Project.
3) Recommendation to approve an Amendment to Agreement allowing
the former owners of a now County owned property located within the
Vanderbilt Beach Road Extension Project the option to extend their
occupancy for an additional period not to exceed two months. Project
No. 60168 (Fiscal Impact: May have a positive fiscal impact in the
amount of $2,000 which would be credited to the gas tax and impact
fee account).
4) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approve
two (2) Adopt-A-Road Program Agreements with four (4) roadway
recognition signs at a total cost of $300.00.
5) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approve
one (1) Adopt-A-Road Program Agreement with two (2) roadway
recognition signs at a total cost of$150.00.
6) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approves a
Contractual Agreement with the Florida Department of Transportation
(FDOT) for the Demonstration of Technologies Project consisting of
the use of a Hybrid ParaTransit Bus for the period of June 15 through
June 26, 2009.
May 26, 2009
Page 8
7) Recommendation to award Bid #09-5200 for construction of
Magnolia Pond Drive Stormwater Improvements, Project No.
51007.1, to Douglas N. Higgins, Inc., in the amount of$78,900.00
plus a ten percent contingency ($7,890.00) for a total amount of
$86,790.00, and to approve the necessary budget amendment.
8) Recommendation to approve the Collier Metropolitan Planning
Organizations (MPO) Operating Budget for FY 2009/1 0, including a
$5,000 County match for Federal Highway Administration Planning.
9) Recommendation to award Bid #09-5228 "CR 951 South of Jolley
Bridge Landscape and Irrigation Installation" to Vila & Son
Landscaping Corp., in the amount of$441,019.93. Project #60086.
10) Recommendation to approve the Amended and Restated Developer
Contribution Agreement between Marbella Lakes Associates, LLC,
herein referred to as "Developer, and Collier County, herein referred
to as County, for the conveyance of right-of-way within the Green
Boulevard Extension corridor and also approve a modification to the
prior agreement.
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES
1) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution to approve the Satisfactions of
Lien for Solid Waste residential accounts wherein the County has
received payment and said Liens are satisfied in full for the 1995 and
1996 Solid Waste Collection and Disposal Services Special
Assessment. Fiscal impact is $38.00 to record the Satisfactions of
Lien.
2) Recommendation to award Bid Number 09-5238 West Wind Mobile
Home Park Water Distribution Improvements in the amount of
$845,328.01 to Guymann Construction of Florida, Inc., to complete
the rehabilitation of the water distribution system to service the West
Winds Subdivision, Project #71010.4.
3) Recommendation to amend the Franchise Agreement Between Collier
County (County) and Choice Environmental Services of Collier
County, Inc. (CES) to implement single stream recycling in District II
May 26, 2009
Page 9
enhancing recycling and waste reduction; approve a necessary budget
Amendment in the amount of $250,000; and authorize the Chairman
of the Board to execute the amendment to the Franchise Agreement.
4) Recommendation to approve a Work Order in the amount of
$980000.00 to Youngquist Brothers, Inc., for the repair and
replacement of a mechanical failure of the North County Regional
Waste Treatment Plant Deep Injection Well No.2. Steel Injection
Tubin, Project #70008.1.
D. PUBLIC SERVICES
1) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign an
Amendment between Collier County Board of County Commissioners
and the Area Agency on Aging of Southwest Florida, Inc., which
reflects additional grant funding in the amount of $77,999 for the
Older Americans Act Program for 2009.
2) Recommendation for the Board of County Commissioners to approve
after-the-fact funding under the American Recovery and
Reinvestment Act (ARRA) of 2009 to increase congregate and home
delivered meals to seniors in Collier County.
3) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign an
Amendment between Collier County Board of County Commissioners
and the Area Agency on Aging of Southwest Florida, Inc., which
reflects additional grant funding in the amount of $23,265 for the
Community Care for the Elderly (CCE) Program for 2009.
4) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign an
Amendment between Collier County Board of County Commissioners
and the Area Agency on Aging of Southwest Florida, Inc., which
reflects a net decrease in grant funding in the amount of $4,800 for the
Home Care for the Elderly (HCE) Program for 2009.
5) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approves,
and authorizes the Chairman to sign, twelve (12) Owner Occupied
Lien Agreements for Deferral of 100% of Collier County Impact Fees
for owner-occupied affordable housing dwelling units located in
Collier County.
May 26, 2009
Page 10
6) Present to the Board of County Commissioners a Summary of the
Impact Fee Deferral Agreements recommended for approval in FY09,
including the total number of Agreements approved, the total dollar
amount deferred and the balance remaining for additional deferrals in
FY09.
7) Recommend that the Board of County Commissioners approves TDC
Category A Grant Applications from the City of Naples, The City of
Marco Island and Collier County for FY -09/1 0 in the amount of
$4,377,336.00 and authorize the Chairman to sign grant agreements
after County Attorney's approval.
8) Recommendation to approve the Summer Food Service Program
Grant in the amount of $588,400 for FY 2009.
9) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners provide
after-the-fact approval for a Hazard Mitigation Grant Program
(HMGP) application submitted to the Florida Department Community
Affairs for the Golden Gate Community Center and Immokalee Sports
Complex in the amount of$146,260.
10) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approve
and authorize the Director of Housing and Human Services to
electronically submit the attached Senior Corps Retired and Senior
V olunteer Program (RSVP) application for grant renewal, to the
Corporation for National and Community Service, for the
continuation of the Collier County-sponsored RSVP program, that, if
awarded, will provide grant funds in the amount of $66,167.
11) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners provide
after-the-fact approval for the attached Health Care and Other
Facilities Special Congressional Initiative grant application that was
submitted to the United States Health Resources & Services
Administration in the amount of$141,570 and, if awarded, to serve as
the Fiscal Agent and to authorize staff to negotiate agreements with
the participating agencies.
May 26, 2009
Page 11
12) Recommendation to approve a budget amendment recognizing $6,000
in revenue from an insurance reimbursement and appropriating funds
for purchase of a mower.
13) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners award Bid
#09-5233 in the amount of $159, 193 to Heatherwood Construction
Company, Inc., for the North Collier Regional Park Boardwalk
Addition.
E. ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES
1) Recommendation to award Bid No. 09-5215, Temporary Laborers, to
Able Body Labor, Balance Staffing, and Tradeforce Staffing for
temporary labor services.
2) Recommendation to award Protective Footwear Bid #09-5178 to
Vic's Boot and Shoe and Uniforms Unlimited as co-vendors.
3) Recommendation to award BID# 09-5192 to Summit Training
Corporation for Online Safety Training services in the amount of
$49,875.
4) To gain approval from the Board of County Commissioners for a
Budget Amendment to Fund 516, Property and Casualty Insurance, to
fund the payment of claims expenditures related to Tropical Storm
Fay and to recognize anticipated reinsurance recoveries.
5) Recommendation to authorize the Chairman to accept a grant of
contractor services from the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation
Commission (FWC) to remove invasive exotic vegetation within
Conservation Collier property adjacent to Rookery Bay National
Estuarine Research Reserve (NERR).
6) To obtain approval for the transfer of funds from the Courthouse
Annex Project #52533.1 to Facilities Management Operating account
within the General Fund in the amount of$138,673.20 to reimburse
the operating account for the electric power and potable water
consumed by the general contractor (Kraft Construction) during the
construction of the Courthouse Annex.
May 26, 2009
Page 12
7) Recommendation to approve a Budget Amendment to the Workers
Compensation Fund (518), for the funding of three large claims in the
amount of$622,797.
8) Recommendation to approve budget amendments providing sufficient
funding to operate and maintain the County's Intergovernmental 800
MHz Radio System for the remainder of Fiscal Year 2009.
9) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approves
and authorizes the Chairman to sign the Second Amendment to the
Collier County Emergency Services Medical Consultant Contract with
Robert Boyd Tober, Inc. for authorized County business related
expenses and ratifies payment of such business related expenses since
the inception of the contract on September 1, 2001.
10) Recommendation that the Board direct staff to draft a Resolution for a
burial and cremation policy for unclaimed and indigent deceased in
Collier County.
F. COUNTY MANAGER
1) Request that the Board of County Commissioners approves a
temporary waiver of the conditional use requirement, and authorize a
temporary location, for the Ochopee Fire Control and Rescue District
at Port of the Islands Hotel, and authorize the Chairman to sign a lease
to effect such approval.
2) Recommendation to adopt a resolution approving amendments
(appropriating grants, donations, contributions or insurance proceeds)
to the Fiscal Year 2008-09 Adopted Budget.
3) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approves a
grant application and authorizes electronic submittal by the Grants
Office and the Emergency Management Department for the United
States Department of Justice, Office of Community Oriented Policing
Services (COPS) Technology Program in the amount of $350,000.
4) Request that the Board of County Commissioners repeal Resolution
No. 2009-124, which established limitations on outdoor burning due
May 26, 2009
Page 13
to extreme drought conditions, thereby ending the Burn Ban, effective
immediately.
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY
REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
1) Recommendation to reject all proposals received under RFP #09-5154
for updating the Bayshore Gateway Triangle CRA Redevelopment
Plan and mixed use overlays and to authorize staff to re-solicit
proposals.
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
1) Commissioner Coletta requests Board approval for reimbursement
regarding attendance at a function serving a Valid Public Purpose.
Attended on May 04, 2009 National Day of Prayer at Everglades City
Hall. $5.00 to be paid from Commissioner Coletta's travel budget.
2) Commissioner Coletta requests Board approval for reimbursement
regarding attendance at a function serving a Valid Public Purpose.
Attended Eagle Scout Court of Honor for Jacob Kocses on May 3,
2009 in Naples, FL. $5.00 to be paid from Commissioner Coletta's
travel budget.
I. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
1) Miscellaneous items to file for record with action as directed.
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1) To inform the Board of final disposition of funds collected by the
Court system to fund the Juvenile Assessment Center. The Clerk of
the Circuit Court is acting in a ministerial capacity for the
administration of the contract with the David Lawrence Center.
2) To obtain Board approval for disbursements for the period of May 2,
2009 through May 8, 2009 and for submission into the official records
of the Board.
3) To obtain Board approval for disbursements for the period of May 9,
May 26, 2009
Page 14
2009 through May 15, 2009 and for submission into the official
records of the Board.
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1) Recommendation to authorize the Office of the County Attorney to
initiate foreclosure proceedings pursuant to Section 162.09, Florida
Statutes, in relation to a $401,921.45 code enforcement lien, arising
from Code Enforcement Special Magistrate Case No. OSM 2006-
080472, entitled Board of County Commissioners, Collier County,
Florida vs. Jean Claude Martel.
2) Recommendation to authorize the County Attorney to file a lawsuit on
behalf of the Collier County Board of County Commissioners, against
Patricia L. Galloway and Athena A. Galloway in County Court Small
Claims Division in and for Collier County, Florida, to recover
damages in the amount of $2,616.66.
3) Recommendation to approve a Stipulated Final Judgment in the
amount of$110,000.00 for Parcel 124 in the lawsuit styled Collier
County v. William Pilger, et al., Case No. 06-1125-CA (County Barn
Road Project #60101). (Fiscal Impact $49,670.00)
4) Recommendation to authorize the Office of the County Attorney to
initiate foreclosure proceedings pursuant to Section 162.09, Florida
Statutes, in relation to ten (10) code enforcement liens, arising from
Code Enforcement Special Magistrate Case Nos. 2006-081081, 2006-
110049,2007-020244,2007-030057,2007-040275,2007-070378,
2007-070379,2007-080081,2007-080702, 2008-007987, entitled
Board of County Commissioners, Collier County, Florida vs. Henry
Tesno and Jill Weaver.
5) Request that the Board of County Commissioners directs the County
Attorney to advertise an ordinance amending the Collier County
Planning Commission Ordinance by requiring that candidates for the
Planning Commission must be nominated by the Commissioner of the
District in which the candidate resides for both initial and subsequent
terms. This request is contingent on the Board this date enacting the
proposed ordinance which relocates the Collier County Planning
Commission Ordinance from the Collier County Land Development
May 26, 2009
Page 15
Code to the Code of Laws and Ordinances. (Companion to Item 17G)
6) Request that the Board of County Commissioners directs the County
Attorney to advertise an ordinance amending the Environmental
Advisory Council Ordinance by (1) reducing the membership from 9
to 5 regular members, and the alternate members from 2 to 1; (2)
reducing the technical membership guideline from 6 to 3 for the
regular members, (3) reducing the non-technical membership
guideline from 3 to 2 for the regular members; and (4) reducing the
quorum and voting requirement from 5 to 3 members. This request is
contingent on the Board this date enacting the proposed ordinance
which relocates the Environmental Advisory Council Ordinance from
the Collier County Land Development Code to the Code of Laws and
Ordinances. (Companion to Item 17J)
17. SUMMARY AGENDA - THIS SECTION IS FOR ADVERTISED PUBLIC
HEARINGS AND MUST MEET THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA: 1) A
RECOMMENDA TION FOR APPROVAL FROM STAFF; 2) UNANIMOUS
RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL BY THE COLLIER COUNTY
PLANNING COMMISSION OR OTHER AUTHORIZING AGENCIES OF
ALL MEMBERS PRESENT AND VOTING; 3) NO WRITTEN OR ORAL
OBJECTIONS TO THE ITEM RECEIVED BY STAFF, THE COLLIER
COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION, OTHER AUTHORIZING
AGENCIES OR THE BOARD, PRIOR TO THE COMMENCEMENT OF
THE BCC MEETING ON WHICH THE ITEMS ARE SCHEDULED TO BE
HEARD; AND 4) NO INDIVIDUALS ARE REGISTERED TO SPEAK IN
OPPOSITION TO THE ITEM. FOR THOSE ITEMS, WHICH ARE QUASI-
JUDICIAL IN NATURE, ALL PARTICIPANTS MUST BE SWORN IN.
A. This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided bv Commission members. PUDZ-2008-AR-
13048, Nadesha Ranasinghe represented by Richard Y ovanovich of
Goodlette, Coleman & Johnson, PA and Ronald Nino of Vanasse & Daylor,
LLP are requesting a PUD rezone from the Estates (E) Zoning District to the
Commercial Planned Unit Development (CPUD) Zoning District to allow a
45,000-square foot commercial development including retail, service and
office uses to be known as Singer Park CPUD. The subject property,
consisting of 5 . 15+/-acres, is located on the west side of Everglades
Boulevard and is approximately 290 feet south of Immokalee Road (CR
846) in Tract 128 of Golden Gates Estates, Unit 47, in Section 30, Township
May 26, 2009
Page 16
47 South, Range 28 East, Collier County, Florida. (CTS)
B. This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided bv Commission members. PUDA-2008-AR-13792
Naples Botanical Gardens, Inc. and the Florida Gulf Coast University
Foundation, Inc., represented by R. Bruce Anderson, Esq., of Roetzel and
Andress; and Margaret Perry, AICP, of WilsonMiller, Inc., are requesting a
PUD Amendment for the Naples Botanical Garden PUD (Ordinance 03-29).
The approximately 171.2-acre subject property is located in Section 23,
Township 50 South, Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida. (CTS)
C. This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided bv Commission members. ABW-2009-AR-14359
The Mercato, LLP, represented by D. Wayne Arnold ofQ. Grady Minor &
Associates, P.A., requesting a waiver pursuant to Section 5.05.01 A.6. of the
LDC to reduce the separation of 500 feet between establishments selling
alcoholic beverages for on-premise consumption to 25.6 feet. The subject
property is located at Unit 6160, Mercato MPUD, Section 34, Township 48
South, Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida.
D. This item requires ex parte disclosure be provided by Commission
Members. Should a hearin2 be held on this item, all participants are
required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve Petition A VESMT-
2006-AR-I0989, 191 Bayfront Drive, to disclaim, renounce and vacate the
County's and the Public's interest in a certain Conservation Easement,
created by Collier County Resolution No. 90-416, and recorded in the Public
Records of Collier County at O.R. Book 1551, Pages 2211 through 2221,
over a portion of Lot 31, Bayfront Gardens, a subdivision as recorded in Plat
Book 14, Pages 114 through 117, of the Public Records of Collier County,
Florida, situated in Section 6, Township 48 South, Range 25 East, Collier
County, Florida, and to accept a replacement Conservation Easement located
on the same parcel.
E. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approve an
ordinance deregulating taxicab and charter service rates, establishing a
consumer advisory board, providing guidelines for obtaining vehicle for hire
licenses, establishing penalties for non-compliance, removing industry
protectionism, and thereby condensing the Public Vehicle For Hire
Ordinance provisions, consistent with the Board of County Commissioners'
May 26, 2009
Page 17
previous direction. (This item is a companion to 16A4)
F. Recommendation to adopt an Ordinance amending Ordinance No. 91-107 as
amended, which created the Forest Lakes Roadway and Drainage Municipal
Service Taxing Unit (MSTU), to include installation of sidewalks and
related amenities, beautification and maintenance of areas within the MSTU
as determined by the Advisory Committee.
G. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners adopts an
Ordinance relocating the Planning Commission Ordinance from the Collier
County Land Development Code to the Collier County Code of Laws and
Ordinances while concurrently repealing Section 8.03.00 of the Collier
County Land Development Code.
H. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners adopts an
Ordinance relocating the Board of Zoning Appeals Ordinance from the
Collier County Land Development Code to the Collier County Code of Laws
and Ordinances while concurrently repealing Section 8.04.00 of the Collier
County Land Development Code.
I. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners adopts an
Ordinance relocating the Building Board of Adjustments and Appeals
Ordinance from the Collier County Land Development Code to the Collier
County Code of Laws and Ordinances while concurrently repealing Section
8.05.00 of the Collier County Land Development Code.
J. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners adopts an
Ordinance relocating the Environmental Advisory Council Ordinance from
the Collier County Land Development Code to the Collier County Code of
Laws and Ordinances while concurrently repealing Section 8.06.00 of the
Collier County Land Development Code.
K. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners adopts an
Ordinance relocating the Historic/ Archaeologic Preservation Board
Ordinance from the Collier County Land Development Code to the Collier
County Code of Laws and Ordinances while concurrently repealing Section
8.07.00 of the Collier County Land Development Code.
L. This item has been continued from the April 28. 2009 BCC meetinf!.
This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
May 26, 2009
Page 18
disclosure be provided bv Commission members. V A-2008-AR-13977
Tim Chess ofMcDonalds USA, LLC, represented by Jeffrey Satfield of
CPH Engineers, Inc., is requesting a Variance from the landscape
requirements of Land Development Code Subsection 4.06.02, Buffer
Requirements, in the General Commercial (C-4) and Gateway Triangle
Mixed Use Subdistrict (GTMUD-MXD), to allow a modification of the
required 7.5-foot wide buffer on the western side of the property; and to
reduced buffer widths on the propertys northern side from 15 feet to ten feet,
the eastern side from 7.5 feet to five feet, and the southern side from 10 feet
to five feet. The 0.86-acre subject property is located at 2886 Tamiami Trail
East, in Section 11, Township 50 South, Range 25 East, Collier County,
Florida. (CTS)
M. Recommendation to adopt a resolution approving amendments
(appropriating carry forward, transfers and supplemental revenue) to the
Fiscal Year 2008-09 Adopted Budget.
18. ADJOURN
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD'S AGENDA SHOULD
BE MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER'S OFFICE AT 252-8383.
May 26, 2009
Page 19
May 26, 2009
MR. MUDD: Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd please take your
seats.
Madam Chair, Commissioners, you have a hot mike.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Good morning, everybody. I hope you had a great holiday
weekend. It was kind of nice to celebrate all together, wasn't it?
And this morning I ask you to rise with me to hear our prayer,
and then if you would, we will put our hands over our hearts and say
the Pledge of Allegiance. Our prayer will be given by our own county
commissioner (sic), Jim Mudd.
MR. MUDD: County manager, Jim Mudd.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, yeah. That's right. You're not a
commissioner yet, right?
MR. MUDD: Everybody's trying to make me one, okay. No,
I'm the county manager.
Let us pray. Our Heavenly Father, we ask your blessing on these
proceedings and all who are gathered here. We ask a special blessing
on this Board of County Commissioners, guide them in their
deliberations, grant them the wisdom and vision to meet the trials of
this day and the days to come.
Bless us now as we undertake the business of Collier County and
its citizens, that our actions will serve the greater good of all citizens
and be acceptable in your sight.
Your will be done, amen.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And now, Commissioner Halas, will you
lead us in the Pledge?
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
Thank you. And now County Manager Mudd, switch you back
to the other position here.
MR. MUDD: Thank you, ma'am. I feel so much more
comfortable here.
Page 2
May 26, 2009
Item #2A
TODA V'S REGULAR, CONSENT AND SUMMARY AGENDA
AS AMENDED - APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED W/CHANGES
MR. MUDD: Agenda changes, Board of County Commissioners'
meeting, May 26,2009.
Item 5A continued to June 9, 2009, BCC meeting. It's a
presentation by Michael Sole, secretary to Florida Department of
Environmental Protection, regarding Comprehensive Everglades
Restoration Plan. And that item is being continued at the county
manager's request.
The next item is Item lOCo Number 6 under consideration in the
executive summary should read, quitclaim deed rather than quick
claim deed, and that clarification is at Commissioner Fiala's request.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Let me interrupt you one more. Actually
in there it said quick clam deed, and I didn't even know if it meant
Clam Pass or claim -- I didn't know, so thank you for clearing that up.
MR. MUDD: Thank you, ma'am.
The next item is item -- is 12A. It's continued to the June 23,
2009, BCC meeting. It's a status report to the Board of County
Commissioners regarding the 2003 agreement and promises made by
the South Florida Water Management District with respect to the
county's vacating approximately 287 miles of road from the South
Golden Gate Estates, and that clarification and request for continuance
is at the county manager's request.
There is some movement right now in the South Florida Water
Management District, number one, to help find $250,000 for the EIS
money for the Miami-Dade/Collier County trades port and, number
two, to get permitted the 260 acres, thereabouts, of the Hendry County
land that Commissioner Coletta has been on the ground with and
things like that, and they're trying to formalize those particular issues.
Page 3
May 26, 2009
So, therefore, I thought it prudent to continue that particular item
until those particular actions become concrete rather than cursory or
something that's a promise. So hopefully we'll hear something that's
better on the 23rd of June.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Mr. Mudd, if I may.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Is there a possibility you might
have risk management do a quick study regarding the Immokalee site
as far as the arsenic goes and see if that's even a viable alternative? I
got a feeling that when we get down to it we're going to find that we're
not going to want to place our residents at risk even if there are -- the
paths are covered with clay or whatever because if they go over, off
the side, it could raise it. If somebody could look into that and give us
some sort of determination based upon the facts as they know it today.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. I'm not too sure risk management is the
agency to look at it. But I also know in the granting of that particular
property, that any kind of adverse -- may it be heavy metal or arsenic
or whatever, it was supposed to be totally clean before it's accepted by
the county, and that's -- and that action and that promise totally rests
on the South Florida Water Management District.
But we'll take a look at the agreement, we'll make sure that that's
in there, and then we'll take a look at that time from our environmental
side of the house, pollution control, and see if they could help us.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It would be great if we had a
rough idea if this is even doable when we get to discuss that.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
MR. MUDD: The next item is Item 16Bl. The date at the
bottom of the resolution on Page 4 should read, the resolution adopted
after motion, second, and majority vote favoring same, this 26th day
of May, 2009, rather than the 14th day of April, 2009, and that
clarification's at staffs request.
Page 4
May 26, 2009
The next item is Item 16C3. The dollar amount referred to in the
title should be, approve a necessary budget amendment in the amount
of $267,000 rather than $250,000. Again, clarification is at staffs
request.
The next item is to move 1 7L to 7 A. This item has been
continued from the April 28, 2009, BCC meeting. This item requires
that all participants be sworn in and ex parte disclosure be provided by
commission members. It's V A-2008-AR-13977, Tim Chess of
McDonald's USA, LLC, represented by Jeffrey Satfield of CPH
Engineers, Inc., is requesting a variance from the landscape
requirements of the Land Development Code Section 4.06.02, buffer
requirements, in the general commercial C4 and Gateway Triangle
mixed-use subdistrict, GTMUD-MXD, to allow a modification of the
required 7.5- foot-wide buffer on the western side of the property and
to reduced buffer widths on the property's north side from 15 feet to
10 feet, the eastern side from 7.5 feet to 5 feet, and the southern side
from 10 feet 5 feet.
The .86-acre subject property is located at 2886 Tamiami East --
excuse me -- Tamiami Trail East in Section 11, Township 50 south,
Range 25 east, Collier County, Florida. This item is being moved at
Commissioner Fiala's request.
You have a series, three, time-certain items. The first item, 1 OF,
to be heard at 4:30 p.m. It's a recommendation that the Board of
County Commissioners consider the following information regarding
the public petition presented to the BCC on 14 April, 2009, by Mr.
Edward Bakay. Bakay?
MR.OCHS: Bakay.
MR. MUDD: Bakay, okay. By this time I've misspelled it or
mispronounced it at least twice, so hopefully we got it one time. Leo,
again?
MR.OCHS: Bakay.
MR. MUDD: Bakay.
Page 5
May 26, 2009
The next time-certain item is Item 10H to be heard at 10:30 a.m.
to receive guidance from the Board of County Commissioners on a
request from the Collier County Leadership Council on Aging to use
the old Golden Gate Library site for a senior resource center.
The next time certain item is Item 10J to be heard at one p.m.,
that the Board of County Commissioners provide staff guidance as to
whether to implement a mandatory code inspection of vacant and
foreclosed residential properties in the unincorporated area of Collier
County prior to sale and whether the program should incorporate a
certificate of use certification to document and disclose to the potential
buyer the extent to which the residential property, i.e., single-family,
condominium, townhouse, or duplex, complies with all applicable
building and zoning codes, and in considering the proposal that the
board provide any additional guidance whether to implement a
voluntary or mandatory code inspection in residential properties prior
to sale.
That's all I have, Madam Chair, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you very much.
County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, very good.
Commissioners, do we have anything to declare on the consent or
summary agenda or any changes or additions to the agenda?
We'll start with you, Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Madam Chair, I have no further
changes to the agenda, but on the summary agenda, I have disclosure
for Item 17 A, and that disclosure consists of correspondence from the
Planning Commission and the staffs report. I have no disclosure for
any other item on the agenda.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. Good morning. I have no
Page 6
May 26, 2009
changes to today's agenda. And as far as disclosures, on 17 A I've had
correspondence from the Planning Commission and also from staff,
and on 1 7B I've also had correspondence from staff on that one, and
on 17L I've had correspondence, and that's the end of my ex parte on
the summary agenda and consent.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, ma'am. My -- I have no
changes to the agenda, and under the summary agenda, 1 7 A I've had
correspondence, 17B I've had correspondence, 17C I've had emails
and phone calls, and -- let's see -- 17L has been moved to 7 A, so I'll
report at that time. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Madam Chair, I've -- staff has
forwarded the Planning Commission's agenda which summarizes on
17, also had an email on 17C.
I would like to pull two items from the consent agenda today to
the regular agenda. The first one is 17D7 (sic), 17 David 7, and
17B10. I'm sorry 16B10, 16 Baker 10.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, if you could just tell me what the
first one was.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Seventeen David 7 -- Baker 7.
No.
MR. MUDD: If you're giving me 17, we're moving it to 7 or to
8, but if you're -- if it's 16 --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's 16 David.
MR. MUDD: Sixteen David.
MR.OCHS: Seven.
MR. MUDD: Seven.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I apologize.
MR. MUDD: Okay. The first one, 16D7, would go to 10K, and
the next one, 16, and I think it's bravo 10 --
Page 7
May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Bravo.
MR. MUDD: -- bravo 10, and that would go to 10F.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, thank you.
Anything else, Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, very good. And I have no changes
or additions to the agenda.
I have nothing to declare on the consent. On the summary, I'm
going to have to just wing this a little bit. I know that I must have
received things on 17 A, although I say it's no disclosures. But if all the
other commissioners received something, I must have. So I'm sorry it
isn't reflected on here.
On 17B, which is the Botanical Garden, I've been over there a
number of times to watch the site, and I've spoken to the people at
Botanical Garden about this item, so I'm going to disclose that.
Mercato, 17C, I've been over at Mercato to take a look at the -- at
the site, and I've spoken to the people from Mercato. And what is
17D? I'm afraid -- mine says no disclosures for any of these, but I'm
just --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I meant to say 16, not 17, I
apologize.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, okay. Okay. And then 17L, I've had
-- of course now that's moved, so never mind. We're going to be
talking about that on the regular agenda. Thank you.
Okay. Anything further with regard to the agenda?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Madam Chair, I make a motion
that we approve the agenda, today's agenda, as amended.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
Page 8
May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
Page 9
AGENDA CHANGES
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' MEETING
Mav 26. 2009
Item SA continued to the June 9. 2009 BCC meetina: Presentation by Michael Sole, Secretary, Florida
Department of Environmental Protection regarding Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan. (County
Manager's request.)
Item 10C: #6 under Considerations in the Executive Summary should read, "Quit Claim Deed" rather than
"Quick Claim Deed". (Commissioner Fiala's request.)
Item 12A continued to the June 23. 2009 BCC meetina: Status report to the Board of County
Commissioners regarding the 2003 Agreement and promises made by the South Florida Water Management
District with respect to the County's vacating approximately 287 miles of roads in the Southern Golden
Gate Estates. (County Manager's request.)
Item 16B1: The date at the bottom of the Resolution on page 4 should read "THIS RESOLUTION ADOPTED
after motion, second, and majority vote favoring same, this 26th day of May, 2009" (rather than 14th day of
April, 2009). (Staff's request.)
Item 16C3: The dollar amount referred to in the title should be: ... "approve a necessary budget
amendment in the amount of $267,000 (rather than $250,000). (Staff's request.)
Move 17L to 7A: This item has been continued from the April 28, 2009 BCC meeting. This item requires
that all participants be sworn in and ex parte disclosure be provided by Commission members. VA-2008-
AR-13977 Tim Chess of McDonalds USA, LLC, represented by Jeffrey Satfield of CPH Engineers, Inc., is
requesting a variance from the landscape requirements of Land Development Code Subsection 4.06.02,
Buffer Requirements, in the General Commercial (C-4) and Gateway Triangle Mixed Use Subdistrict
(GTMUD-MXD), to allow a modification of the required 7.5-foot wide buffer on the western side of the
property; and to reduced buffer widths on the property's northern side from 15 feet to ten feet, the eastern
side from 7.5 feet to five feet, and the southern side from 10 feet to five feet. The 0.86-acre subject property
is located at 2886 Tamiami Trail East, in Section 11, Township 50 South, Range 25 East, Collier County,
Florida. (Commissioner Fiala's request.)
Time Certain Items:
Item #1 OF to be heard at 4:30 p.m. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners consider the
following information regarding the Public Petition presented to the BCC on 14 April 2009 by Mr. Edward
Bakay.
Item #10H to be heard at 10:30 a.m. To receive guidance from the Board of County Commissioners on a
request from the Collier County Leadership Council on Aging to use the old Golden Gate Library site for a
Senior Resource Center.
Item #10J to be heard at 1 :00 p.m. That the Board of County Commissioners provide staff guidance as to
whether to implement a mandatory code inspection of vacant and foreclosed residential properties in the
unincorporated area of Collier County prior to sale and whether the program should incorporate a
Certificate of Use certification to document and disclose to the potential buyer the extent to which the
residential property (Le. single-family, condominium, townhouse, or duplex) complies with all applicable
building and zoning codes, and in considering this proposal that the Board provide any additional guidance
whether to implement a voluntary or mandatory code inspection of residential properties prior to sale.
5/26/2009 8:42 AM
May 26, 2009
Item #2B, and #2C
MINUTES FROM APRIL 21, 2009, BCC/RLSA MEETING; APRIL
28, 2009, BCC/REGULAR - APPROVED AS PRESENTED
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Madam Chair, I make a motion
that the board approve April 21, 2009, BCC/RLSA meeting and April
28, 2009, BCC regular meeting.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. And a second?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. All those in favor, signify by
.
saYIng aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Now we have the fun part. This is the
service awards. And I think our service awards are down here, aren't
they?
MS. FILSON: Yes, ma'am.
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioners, will you join me down at
the table.
MR. MUDD: Madam Chair, we'll go with the -- what would you
prefer? You want to start with the 20 years and work to the 30-year,
or do you want to go to 30-year and work down?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No.
MR. MUDD: Twenty-year.
Page 10
May 26, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's what's on top.
Item #3A
SERVICE AWARDS - 20 YEAR ATTENDEES - EMMANUEL
AUGUSTIN, ROAD MAINTENANCE; JEFFREY WALKER, RISK
MANAGEMENT - PRESENTED
MR. MUDD: Okay, service wards, 20-year attendees.
MR. MUDD: Our first awardee today is Emmanuel Augustin,
and he works in the road maintenance section, and he's done 20 years
of dedicated service to Collier County. If you could please come
forward.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Good work, sir.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you for being here so long.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Congratulations.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Congratulations. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Let me give you this. They're going to
want to take a picture.
MR. MUDD: Come on up right in the front and take a picture.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: There you go. Squish right in here.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll back up.
(Applause.)
MR. MUDD: Emmanuel, thank you very much.
Our next 20-year awardee is Jeffrey Walker, and he's your risk
management director.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you for your years of
.
serVIce.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Jeff, thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Jeff.
Page 11
May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Jeff, congratulations.
(Applause.)
Item #3B
SERVICE AWARDS - 25 YEAR ATTENDEES -BILL FINCH,
PARKS & RECREATION; PATRICIA LEHNHARD,
TRANSPORTATION ADMINISTRATION; STEVEN DONOVAN,
EMS - PRESENTED
MR. MUDD: Our next awardees are 25-year awardees. The first
is Bill Finch from parks and recreation.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you for your years of
.
serVIce.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Hi, Bill. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Hi, how are you? Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So glad you've been with us so long.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR. MUDD: Thanks, Bill.
Our next 25-year awardee is Patricia Lehnard from the
transportation administration section.
(Applause. )
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Thank you so much for your
.
serVIce.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Quite a group here supporting
you today.
MS. LEHNHARD: I do. Good morning.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Thank you.
Page 12
May 26, 2009
MS. LEHNHARD: Good morning. Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR. MUDD: Our next 25-year attendee awardee is Steven
Donovan from EMS.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER COYLE: How you doing, Steve? Good
.
seeIng you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Hi, how are you?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Congratulations, Steve.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Congratulations. The next 25
will be a lot easier.
MR. DONOVAN: Yeah.
MR.OCHS: Congratulations, Steve.
MR. MUDD: Congratulation, Steve.
MR. DONOVAN: Good luck.
MR. MUDD: Thanks.
(Applause.)
Item #3C
SERVICE AWARDS - 30 YEAR ATTENDEE - DAVID GIGEE,
ROAD MAINTENANCE - PRESENTED
MR. MUDD: And the last, but not least, our 30-year awardee,
who's David Gigee out of road maintenance.
(Applause.)
MR. GIGEE: Long time, long time.
MR. MUDD: Ma'am, what's in that box?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I don't know. Do you want to look?
MR. MUDD: Yeah, sure. We want to see what's in that box.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'm glad you asked that. Oh, look.
MR. GIGEE: Oh.
Page 13
May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER COYLE: A Rolex.
MR. GIGEE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Funny, it's got Mickey Mouse on
it.
MR. GIGEE: Thank you. You want my picture?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We sure do.
(Applause.)
MR.OCHS: Congratulations. Thank you.
MR. MUDD: David, thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Hey, we're excused, right?
MR. MUDD: Ma'am, that concludes our service awards for
today.
Item #4A
PROCLAMATIONS - PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING THE
WEEK OF JUNE 10 TO JUNE 15,2009 AS WORLD ELDER
ABUSE AWARENESS WEEK. TO BE ACCEPTED BY VICKI-JO
LETCHWORTH, ELDER ABUSE ADVOCATE, THE SHELTER
FOR ABUSED WOMEN & CHILDREN - ONE MOTION WAS
TAKEN TO ADOPTED ALL PROCLAMATIONS
MR. MUDD: Ma'am, that brings us to the proc- -- okay, they're
going. That brings us to the proclamations section, and this is a
proclamation designating the week of June 10th through June 15,
2009, as World Elder Abuse Awareness Week. To be accepted by
Vicki-Jo Letchworth, the elder abuse advocate, the Shelter for Abused
Women and Children.
Ms. Letchworth, if you could please come forward.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Congratulations. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: How are you this morning?
Page 14
May 26, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you for your service.
(Applause. )
MR. MUDD: Ma'am, do you want to say a couple of words?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Vicki?
MR. MUDD: Do you want to say a couple words, ma'am?
MS. LETCHWORTH: No.
Item #4B
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING HENDRY CORRECTIONAL
INSTITUTION STAFF FOR IMMEDIA TE ASSISTANCE IN A
CLEAN-UP EFFORT AT EAGLE LAKES COMMUNITY PARK
AFTER AN EXOTIC ALGAE KILLED THE FISH IN THE LAKE
CAUSING AIR AND ENVIRONMENTAL POLLUTION. TO BE
ACCEPTED BY ASSISTANT WARDEN OF PROGRAMS BEN
MOUNT AND MAJOR SOOY -ADOPTED
MR. MUDD: Okay. Our next proclamation is 4B. It's a
proclamation recognizing Hendry Correctional Institution staff for
immediate assistance in a clean-up effort at Eagle Lakes Community
Park after an exotic algae killed the fish in the lake and causing air and
environmental pollution. To be accepted by assistant warden of
programs, Ben Mount and Major Sooy.
Gentlemen, if you could please come forward.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I thank you for your help.
Appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you for all your efforts. We really
appreciate it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thanks for a good job.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
Page 15
May 26, 2009
(Applause.)
MR.OCHS: Thank you for your help.
MR. MUDD: Thank you very much, sir.
Item #4C
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING JUNE 1 THROUGH JUNE 7,
2009 AS THE KATHY & FRITZ FRIDAY CPR & AED
AWARENESS WEEK THANKING THEM FOR THE
GENEROUS GIFT OF FUNDING TO ALLOW THE EQUIPPING
OF THE COLLIER COUNTY SHERIFF'S VEHICLES WITH THE
LIFE SAVING AUTOMATIC EXTERNAL DEFIBRILLATORS.
TO BE ACCEPTED BY KATHY AND FRITZ FRIDAY, SHERIFF
KEVIN RAMBOSK, DANIELLE BRODERICK AND DEBBIE
DUNCAN FROM THE AMERICAN HEART ASSOCIATION-
ADOPTED
MR. MUDD: The next proclamation is 4C. It's designating June
1 st through June 7, 2009, as the Kathy and Fritz Friday CPR and AED
Awareness Week thanking them for the generous gift of funding to
allow the equipping of the Collier County Sheriffs vehicles with the
life-saving automatic external defibrillators. To be accepted by Kathy
and Fritz Friday, Sheriff Kevin Rambosk, Danielle Broderick, and
Debbie Duncan from the American Heart Association.
Ladies and gentlemen, if you could please come forward.
(Applause.)
MR. FRIDAY: Good morning. This is for you, Sheriff, on
behalf of the American Heart Association.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER COYLE: During the pause, Madam Chair --
MR. MUDD: We need to get a motion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
Page 16
May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- can I just make a commercial
announcement? I notice they're carrying a Phillips AED. Anybody
who has been -- who has had the need of an automatic external
defibrillator made by Phillips, you'll hear the soothing and very
professional voice of our own Peter Thomas instructing you how to go
through the process.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, really?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes. Peter Thomas is probably the
world's renowned narrator and resident of Naples, and it's -- the
Philip's company used his voice on all of the AEDs worldwide to
provide instructions on how to use it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, that's a very -- that's a neat piece of
information.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Interesting. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
MR. MUDD: Ma'am, we're going to need a motion for the
proclamations.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Motion to approve the
proclamations.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I have a motion and second.
All in favor, motion?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I know there's no opposed, so I won't
even bother to ask that.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, that brings us to the presentation
section. As I mentioned during the -- during the change sheet reading,
SA is continued until June 9th.
Page 1 7
May 26, 2009
Item #5B
REPORT TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
REGARDING INFORMATION OBTAINED IN RESPONSE TO
CHAIRMAN FIALA'S PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST TO THE
CLERK OF CIRCUIT COURT DATED APRIL 7, 2009
CONCERNING LEGAL FEES AND EXPENSES - PRESENTED
AND DIRECT THE CHAIR TO WRITE A LETTER TO THE
CLERK REQUESTING MARCH, APRIL AND MAY INVOICE
FIGURES (WHEN AVAILABLE) - CONSENSUS
MR. MUDD: The next presentation is 5B. It's a report to the
Board of County Commissioners regarding information obtained in
response to Chairman Fiala's public records request to the Clerk of the
Circuit Court dated April 9( sic), 2009, concerning legal fees and
expenses. And I guess I'm giving it.
If you take a look at your packet today, you'll notice under 5A
that the chairman sent Mr. Brock, the Clerk of the Circuit Courts, a
public records request dated April 7, 2009, and that's in the packet.
And then the last page of the packet is a May 12, 2009, letter to
Honorable Donna Fiala, Chairman of the Collier County Board of
County Commissioners, and it basically says -- help me on the
visualizer. Thank you.
Basically says, in response to your public records request dated
April 7, 2009, please be advised that the billing records are available
for review. Please contact our office to arrange a time for
examination. If copies are requested, a dollar charge for page.
And that was sent to the chairwoman.
We've sent staff -- we've sent staff over to the clerk's office in
order to take a look at all those invoices and billings and try to put all
the pieces together so that this board can determine what the legal
Page 18
May 26, 2009
fees, charges, have been for all the cases that we've been working, we,
as the Board of County Commissioners, have been working against
the clerk, and I'll lay out not only the clerk's expenses, but I will also
layout for you the county's expenses in this particular regard.
The analysis documents received in response to the public
records request made by the -- to the Collier County Clerk of Courts
were basically on June 15,2006, August 30, 2007, and April 7, based
on the request from Commissioner Fiala to the clerk on 2009.
Excuse me. A compilation of invoicing records between the
Office of the Clerk of Courts, Dwight Brock, and the following firms
are outside consultants, and he used Ackerman, Link, and Sartory, P A,
a Daniel O'Keefe, CPA, and Woodward, Pires, and Lombardo so far
that we can find from the invoices that we have so far.
Okay. The information that I'm prepared to present is for the
time period February, 2004, through April, 2009, and pertains to the
following six cases, and they're listed on this line for your edification.
And only the county attorney can figure out what the cases really
mean by the numbers.
And here we go for the summary of public records request
funding. The Ackerman, Link, and Sartory legal firm are represented
by David Ackerman, Richard Brenner, Tina Campbell, Paul DeVito,
Dana Foster, Tom Grady, Scott Link, Kathy Maska, Nergiin Mitsch,
and Glory Ross. And there's initial expenditures of $325,000. But for
that particular firm over that period of time, the billing for outside
consultants for these cases from the clerk has been $2,523,018.88.
As I said before, there were a couple other firms. One was
Woodward, Pires, and Lombardo, P A. That firm and billing records
show that we had billings from Anthony Pires, Steven Blount, Jennifer
Devries, Christopher Lombardo, Carlo Zampogna with additional
expenses of$155,000 for that particular firm. This firm has billed the
clerk $626,901.25.
There's an additional firm and it has to do with the CPA from
Page 19
May 26, 2009
Moore, Stephens, and Lovelace, P A, and that's Daniel O'Keefe, and
there's billings or invoices of $46,815.
The total outside billings invoices for these six cases, and paid so
far that we can discern, is $3,196,735.13. And, again, these amounts
of monies have been invoiced from those attorney firms to the Clerk
of Courts for payment.
I noticed that you had an asterisk by Thomas Grady and the law
firm that he's with. The time periods July '05 through January '06, the
rate that he charged the clerk was $550. There were 12.7 hours billed,
and that represents around $7,000. From February '04 to October '08
there were six hundred -- that the rate was $640 an hour, there was
1,100.9 hours billed, to a charge of $704,576, and that went from
February '04 through October '08.
From November '08 through February '09, the rate was $640 an
hour. There were 96 hours billed. Turned out to be $61,440.
You'll notice on this particular slide that I stopped in February
'09 . We do not have the invoices for March, April, or May, and I can't
tell you at that particular point in time how much money was charged
because, again, we didn't -- we didn't receive those invoices with the
latest public records request.
The total billed by Mr. Grady was $773,001.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Who is Mr. Grady?
MR. MUDD: Representative Tom Grady.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Oh, is that who that is?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. I have another question for
you, if you don't mind.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Would you put that back up?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I don't understand the date
sequencing here. You have July '05 to January '06, $6,900, and then
Page 20
May 26, 2009
you start with February '04 through October '08. Is that inclusive of
the '05 and '06 billings, or is there --
MR. MUDD: No, sir. What happened in July through January --
July '05 through January '06, there's a different rate charge than the
present rate that Mr. Grady's charging.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. But February '04 falls
earlier than that date, and you've got a rate of $640. Should that be
February '06?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. It should be February '06.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. All right. I just --
MR. MUDD: Thank you for that clarification.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. All right. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Commissioner Coyle.
MR. MUDD: Now, to be fair to all particular sides in this
particular issue, it's -- we need to layout what Collier County Board
of County Commissioners' outside attorney fees and expenses have
been over the same particular point in time.
And Theodore Tripp, Ted Tripp as you know him, the expenses
that we've paid through February of'08 are $299,556.05; Lisa
Worthington was -- billed us and we paid her $20,112.50; Yale
Freeman billed the county $93,395; and Eric Vasquez billed the
county $84,553. Additional expenses come to a total of$146,747.77
cents. So the total cost to the county for the Board of County
Commissioners on these particular six cases is a total of $644,364.32.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: County Manager, what is
encompassing the additional expenses? Do you have any breakdown
on the additional expenses?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir, we do, and Laura, Laura Davidson, has
those in the office of management and budget. If you could kind of
summarize what those additional expenses are, Laura, that would be
helpful.
Page 21
May 26, 2009
MS. DAVIDSON: Right now?
MR. MUDD: Right now if you have them off the top of your
head, you could tell us right now, and then we can layout in detail for
the board.
MS. DAVIDSON: Sure. For the record, Laura Davidson with
the office of management and budget. The additional expenses would
encompass anything beyond attorney billing hours. So travel costs
that you might payor costs for copies or having minutes taken, things
like that. Anything that's not an hourly billed expense for an attorney.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Would that include paralegals?
MS. DAVIDSON: No, I don't believe so.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MS. DAVIDSON: They would bill for that time specifically.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That would be under the auspices
of the attorney for paralegal?
MS. DAVIDSON: That's right.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MR. MUDD: Madam Chair, Commissioners, unless you have
further questions, that basically lays out the attorney fees and the
results of the public records request.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Did you want to continue, Commissioner
Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah, just one other question. This
is quite earthshaking. I just wonder where we go from here in regards
to the costs incurred by the taxpayers in the county.
It seems that the -- one of the constitutionals, obviously, this is
why we have the ongoing concerns with the interest payments. And
we've had to really dig deep to finally get some answers to questions.
Since I was on the board as a chair, I had also asked for a public
records request on expenses, and we found that it was difficult to
figure out what was going on. And I commend Commissioner Fiala
for being -- persevering in this.
Page 22
May 26, 2009
And I just hope that the people on (sic) this county realize the
cost here and the charges by some of the firms here for the expenses
incurred for the clerk, and I have some real serious concerns on this.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What is it, Page -- Page 3 of our
-- no, Page 5 of this item, a letter from -- memo from Sue Barbiretti. I
believe she might have transposed the statute numbers. Florida
Statutes 24 is the executive, like the governor and cabinet. I think it's
2824, not 2428. Twenty-eight is the clerk's. Wouldn't that be a fair
assessment?
MR. MUDD: Commissioner Henning, we can go back to the
clerk's office and have them clarify the particular Florida Statute in
which they're quoting. Outside of that, I look to the county attorney.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's not a big deal.
MR. MUDD: The other thing I would -- and Commissioner
Halas basically said, well, what's next? I mentioned earlier that the
invoices stopped in February. We still don't have March, April, or
May.
One of the -- one of the things I will also bring to your attention,
if you haven't already noticed, that Commissioner Fiala's original
request was sent over to the Clerk of Courts on the 7th of April. We
received this particular rely on May 12, 2009. It's sure by sure
coincidence or whatever, but you better understand that the legislation
session was over on May 8th, and all of a sudden on the 12th you
received the answer to your public records request. I call -- I find that
very coincidental in this particular regard.
But I would say to Commissioner Halas, if you want to bring this
to a close, then you need to get the billings from March, April and
May, and then you can do the total tallies, and then you can have
them, and the taxpayers can process and see what the totals are, and
we need to be transparent in that particular regard.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Would the Chair be so inclined to
Page 23
May 26, 2009
write another letter stating we'd like to have the billings for the next
series, which is what, April, May -- March, April, May?
MR. MUDD: March, April, and May, sir.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I would be happy to do that if the other
. .
commISSIoners agree.
Commissioner Coy Ie?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I think you should do that,
but the problem is that you're not going to get invoices for May
because May isn't complete and they'll generally mail at the end of the
month, and then it will take a while for the clerk to process them.
So you're probably going to have to continue to ask for that
information. So I would -- I would say that we modify the motion to
provide that the Chair continue to ask for these invoices until we have
them all.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And you might have to --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And we could write the letter saying, send
those for March and April right away, and then when you've
completed May, please send that. We could do something like that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. I just wonder why we're
going past this point now. We know there's been a tremendous
amount of money spent, and we're going to be probably tallying
another hundred thousand dollars or so to this. What are we going to
do with this information? I mean, how does this in any way help to
resolve the situation? Maybe there's something here I'm missing. And
I have one other thing I want to comment on. I'm not too sure who
can reply to that. No one?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I agree.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, we've been through a
sorry chapter in county government history with this particular thing.
Page 24
May 26, 2009
It never should have happened. It did. It was a breakdown in
communication some time ago, and it just seemed to get compounded
time after time after time. Hopefully it's coming to an end.
I suggest we think about extending an olive branch. We've got a
Clerk of Courts that's in office, just like we are, a number of -- three
other commissioners on here for another three years and nine months
or three years and eight months.
Ifwe extend an olive branch and tell them that there is a seat
available at the end, not for his designee, but for him to be here during
our meetings so that we can have dialogue going back and forth and
try to prevent any kind of occurrences such as this in the future, that
would be a suggestion I would make. I don't know if anyone else
supports that or not. But I would feel much more comfortable if I
could look down there past Commissioner Coy Ie and see the Clerk of
Courts sitting in that empty chair.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I wouldn't feel so comfortable.
But, you know, if you're asking for reactions, we've done that. We've
done it -- we've made that request time and time and time again. We
have on our -- in our agenda always the opportunity for constitutional
officers to come before us. There is a section in this agenda for
constitutional officers. They can always come here and talk with us
about issues. The clerk has refused to do that.
I don't know that he's been before us to discuss anything or ask
for anything or to advise us on very much since we insisted that we
get some -- a report on our investments over a year ago.
So it's -- I think we've extended the olive branches time and time
again, and the clerk has been very clear that he has no intention of
working with us except through the courts. That -- that is his method
of operation, and he prefers it, and so that's what he has always done.
If there is a disagreement, he goes to the courts. He does not
come here to talk with us about it. And there's nothing that you or I
will ever be able to do to change that.
Page 25
May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Madam Chair, may I follow up
on that?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. You're -- I understand,
and I feel the same frustration, but extending the olive branch, whether
it's accepted or not, really isn't important. It's the fact that we do
something meaningful as a commission. I'd like to see us direct the
Chair to reaffirm that invitation to the clerk to join us up here on the
dais. I see there's a lot of excitement over that one.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yep.
MR. MUDD: Madam Chair, just one clarifying point, and I
believe this was directed to the County Attorney's Office. We do have
an appointment with the clerk on June 11th, the county attorney and
the County Manager's Office, to see if we can't work out an interlocal
agreement based on the recommendations of the Productivity
Committee as they reviewed the vouchers that were sent over to the
board in this particular regard. Now, that's our first sitdown, and they
wanted to do it so that the clerk could have legal representation. So
that's the 11 th of June.
As soon as the meeting is over, and then when you get to the first
board meeting, then the county attorney and the county manager will
-- will tell you how successful or unsuccessful we were in that
particular regard.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, Commissioner Coletta, I
commend you for your comments and thoughts. We also should be
working with our elected representatives to serve the people, although
your offer would result in a charge for somebody to sit down there
since we all --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- have recognized that he is a
fee officer. But how do you feel about working with all the
Page 26
May 26, 2009
constitutional officers through a workshop and just find out how we
could work closer together to best serve the constituents in Collier
County, not just the Clerk of the Court?
But I realize that we do need really to work on that. And I can
tell you that I call the finance director all the time if I have any
questions about things on our agenda. They're very responsive. I
don't know, Commissioner Fiala, if you do the same. But I think that
a workshop with our constitutional officers, elected officials, would be
very productive.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Now we have a number of
suggestions on the floor right now: Writing a letter to get the rest of
the figures, also to have a workshop. Commissioner Coletta's
suggested the clerk would come to our meetings but at no cost. Is that
what you were saying?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Exactly. I think the money
saved for his office to be able to deal with the commission a on
one-to-one basis right here in the dais would more than offset any
fees. I think it was a mistake in the beginning. We paid a
$60,000-a-year fee to have him here because we thought we could
make a big difference, but he sent his representative from his office
and we actually accomplished nothing. But I think if we had the
gentleman sitting down there next to Commissioner Coy Ie, we would
be able to see some amazing results over a period of time when the fall
starts to take place.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'll weigh in on that and say, first of all, I
think she did a fine job. She would -- she would get ahold of the clerk
if she had any questions. She was there to weigh in when we asked
her any questions. I really -- I really liked having her here. I know
that we can't afford the $60,000 a year, but it was great having her
here.
So even if the clerk couldn't make it -- and I realize it would be
difficult for him. It's just like asking the sheriff to sit in on every
Page 27
May 26, 2009
meeting or the Supervisor of Elections. It would be difficult for the
head of the department to sit here, but his -- his next in line, which
would be Crystal at the time, was wonderful to sit here.
Yau asked another question before, and you said, why are we
even bringing these figures out, and I hope I'm not speaking out of line
here, but I think it's just -- we've only -- you know, through the
newspapers we've only seen one part of the picture, and through all of
the speeches he makes to the organizations, there's only been one
picture portrayed.
And what we were just trying to do was make sure that it's a
whole picture to give the -- you know, the rest of the story. And that's
-- unless I'm wrong, Mr. Mudd, that's what we're trying to do is just
complete the story. And so we were bringing out the rest of the
charges that were involved that didn't happen to ever be noticed in the
newspaper.
Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. As far as our friendship with
the other constitutionals, we really don't have any problem with the
other constitutionals. Whenever they have any concerns, they always
contact us or are here at our board meetings in regards to concerns
they may have. And I feel that our relationship has been very good
with the -- with the other constitutionals.
So the only one that we've had the concern with -- and we've
asked him to sit at the end of the dais. He hasn't taken us up on that.
He's always sent a representative, but yet there were times when there
were questions that needed to be answered, and he avoided the
situation.
So I feel that it's time for him to have an olive branch and not us.
We've tried to work with him in all phases of this. And as was
brought out, that every time that he has a concern, he immediately
runs to the courts and -- instead of trying to address this.
So my feeling is that I think that we have a good relationship
Page 28
May 26, 2009
with the other constitutionals, and I hope that he realizes that this can't
continue to go on where we have the expenditures of this nature.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. I agree with
Commissioner Halas in that we don't have a problem with the other
constitutional officers. I don't think it's necessary for a workshop, per
see I still emphasize the fact that while Crystal was a tremendous
amenity to add to this particular setting, she still couldn't speak for the
Clerk of Courts on many issues. And I would think that if we had him
here, and all the different issues that came up that were important to
the clerk, we could make sure we arrange our calendar and everything
to be able to fit it in, that we'd be able to discuss them back and forth.
He may have some insight that we never could see that we could
benefit from. That's the only reason I was saying the Clerk of Courts,
and it should be for no fee. And I kind of hope that it would be
something that he'd be able to adjust his schedule to be able to do.
I know the invitation remains open, but I still think it would be a
wonderful letter if the Chair could draft a letter, just sending it to him,
remind him of the fact that that seat's available for him and we would
welcome him.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So other commissioners, do I have
a nod from you to include that in a letter or even write a separate letter
inviting him to sit in on our meetings or --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Not from me.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Nope.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Nothing?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: He's got that ability right now.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I have one other question though,
and maybe the county attorney can answer this. What is the normal
charge for an attorney on the outside that charges the government?
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, we --
Page 29
May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Average cost?
MR. KLATZKOW: We typically try to spend between 250 and
$300 an hour at the maximum effort, but it's -- you do get specialists
for different functions that do charge far higher than that.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So you're saying anywheres from
250 to $300 an hour?
MR. KLATZKOW: That's what we look for, yeah.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. And that's about what our
attorneys charge us for -- when we ask them?
MR. KLA TZKOW: Sometimes a little more than that, but that's
the ballpark we generally try to look for.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. What's the highest amount
that we've had to pay for attorneys?
MR. KLATZKOW: Off the top of my head, maybe 325 an hour,
something like that.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So do you -- Commissioners, then
did you want me to write a letter to get the rest of the figures?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I have some nods. Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, put me down as no. I don't
see it serving any purpose.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. You don't want to finish the
picture?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I don't know where it's going to
go, why we're going to involved anybody's time in something that's --
whatever it is, it's going to be minuscule compared to the cost that's
already there. I don't see any advantage to it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We have three nods to write the
letter, so we will do that. And we didn't -- we didn't get -- is there
anything else that we have on this item that we want to --
Page 30
May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We don't have any speakers, do
we?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, I don't know.
MS. FILSON: No, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No speakers.
Thank you for asking that question.
Okay. Anything else, Commissioners?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Then we'll move on to item -
Item #5C
UPDATE FROM CLARENCE S. TEARS, DIRECTOR OF THE BIG
CYPRESS BASIN, ON THE LAKE TRAFFORD RESTORATION
PROJECT - PRESENTED
MR. MUDD: Ma'am, that would bring us to presentation 5C.
It's an update from Clarence S. Tears, Jr., director of Big Cypress
Basin on the Lake Trafford restoration project.
Clarence?
MR. TEARS: Good morning.
Good morning, Commissioners. Clarence Tears, director of Big
Cypress Basin, South Florida Water Management District. Today I'm
here as the chairman of the Lake Trafford Task Force, and that's a
board appointed by this commission.
Just to give you an update, we're actually in Phase III. As you'll
remember, Phase I, we removed about 2.2 million cubic yards of
organic material from the lake, then we went to Phase II. In Phase II
we had approximately 1 million cubic yards to remove; however,
because of the severe drought that we had, Phase II, we had to cancel
the project and wait for the water levels to return, because in Phase II
the main focus was the littoral zone, this area around the lake, which is
Page 31
May 26, 2009
at a higher elevation, so it was more challenging during the drier
peri ods.
Since that time, you know, we've had -- roughly about two years
has passed. Our water levels have rebounded; however, during that
dry time, the organic material shifted towards the center of the lake.
We had the really severe drought, and then we had two major storm
events that caused a severe sloshing of the lake, and all the organic
material shifted to the center.
So basically in Phase III we're actually going back and basically
vacuuming the area we've already vacuumed once before, and that
should finish the restoration.
It's kind of nice because the littoral zones are a little more
challenging. It's like in your living room. You know, it's easy to
vacuum the carpet, but when you try to get under the furniture, it's a
little more difficult. So this makes the project a little bit easier, a little
more straightforward.
The project should take about 660 days. The notice to proceed
will go out June 1, and it's to Harry Pepper and Associates.
Some of the things that we've been -- have been doing in the lake,
we're working with Florida Gulf Coast University to do some tape
grass planting in the south end of the lake because, you know, after we
vacuum the lake and clean out all the material, we're cleaning out all
the native vegetation, too. So what we're trying to do is see how best
to reestablish native grasses in the lake and, you know, aquatic
.
speCIes.
So it's kind of exciting. It's a good project for the university.
Their scientists are working with their students, and they're learning
about lake restoration in the process.
This is what we call -- they call it native vallisneria americana. I
call it tape grass. It's a lot easier. But it's a native species. It grows
fairly quickly, but it really helps, you know, the ecology of the lake.
This is just some of the students with the site, some of the
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May 26, 2009
scientists putting these test blots in. They actually cover the test blots
because a lot of your turtles like to eat the vegetation. And if you
don't cover it at the beginning, it's very difficult for it to establish.
Since the restoration, we've been doing some testing to see what
type of aquatic species are coming back, because in the past when we
did some earlier testing, Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission, they
couldn't find any native species. Largemouth bass. They couldn't find
any species. And you know, it's the little flies. And they were having
a hard time finding some of the native species before the native
restoration.
And this was really based on all the littoral zones with so much
organic material, a lot of the native species like to bed in the sandy
soil, and there was no sandy soil because it was, you know, 2 to 6 feet
of organic material above that.
Some of the early science have been showing that, you know,
that black crappie are coming back in 2008, which is kind of exciting
to see, you know, some of the native species.
Also grass shrimp, tilapia, Seminole Killifish and nature forage
fish are abundant in the shallow area, so this is kind of exciting that
this restoration signs, you know, we're seeing signs of the lake
recovenng.
Some of the recommendations from the scientists are to, you
know, complete the Phase III dredging, you know, keep -- continue on
the post dredging, look at replanting native vegetation, continue to
monitor, you know, the small-fry popula- -- fish populations,
invertebrates, and focus on the algal communities, because certain
algaes are important to the lake, and certain algaes, as you know from
the past, have done harm to the lake. So the idea is to try to establish
the proper algal communities and closely monitor and regulate
herbicide applications to the lake, make sure we target exotic species
and try to work that in with the restoration itself.
And what we're trying to do through the task force is better
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May 26, 2009
coordination of all the agencies trying to work together with the
scientists to ensure the long-term sustainability of the lake.
And with that, is there any questions?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. Through your studies, after
you did the dredging, how was the water clarity compared to where
you started from? Did you establish a baseline prior to dredging?
MR. TEARS: Yes. The water clarity, if you went to the lake in
the past, it was more of a black organic material, and currently the
clarity of the water's a lot better; however, because of the material in
the center, and when we have those days where the wind's blowing
and you get that sloshing of the lake, the clarity does go down. So
that's why it's important to remove the rest of the organic material.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. Have you noticed that the
grasses have been starting to come back along the edges then?
MR. TEARS : Yes, we have. The scientists have noticed that,
you know, in some of the littoral zones, some of the native species
have come back.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Have we experienced any
additional algae blooms since you started dredging?
MR. TEARS: Yes, we have. We've had a few algae blooms, but
they've been minor and, you know, the fish that have been impacted
by the algae blooms have been minor. So they're not as bad as they
were in the past.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And what do you contribute that --
the algae bloom to? Because we haven't got the Phase III report.
MR. TEARS: Well, because, you know, when you're -- what the
scientists tell me that, you know, when you do a restoration, basically
you take the lake out of balance, so it takes time for the lake to
recover. So you'll have, you know, increases, I think, in ammonium
and other things as this process occurs. And that's why we're trying to
establish these native plants to get the oxygen and other things to start
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May 26, 2009
reproducing in the lake column. So it's just part of the process.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. And how often do you
check the water quality?
MR. TEARS: I actually work with pollution control. We
actually pay them to do water quality throughout Collier County. It's
a cooperative agreement. And I want to say at least once a month, and
they do six sites around the lake.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissions Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, two things I wanted to
check with you.
At the level we're at now with the restoration, are we past that --
the ability of the lake to be able to produce a massive kill-off, or do
we still have that danger that we -- I don't want to give people false
hope.
MR. TEARS: Yeah. You know, that's a good question, you
know. Before we started this restoration, I looked at all of the books
on lake restoration. There's very few, and that's why I tried to get the
university involved because I'm hoping they'll produce a book on lake
restoration.
I'm really not sure. You know, in the past, when it -- when you
look at a lake, there's a point a lake dies, and we're getting pretty close
to that because the signs of that is you have these major, major fish
kills, and then there's a point where the lake is just dead. And we're
almost at that point, so this restoration, what we're seeing is, there are
-- you know, throughout the last few years, there's certain points that
we expect the maj or algal blooms, and we didn't experience that. So
I'm very optimistic that we may not see that type of, you know, die-off
fish kills that we saw in the past and extremely hopeful, based on the
science that we've seen so far, that the lake is on a -- is recovering.
But to give you a yes-or-no answer, I really can't.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I understand that. That's -- the
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May 26, 2009
only thing I wanted was the truth--
MR. TEARS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- and people have to realize it.
So I mean, if we -- if something does happen, that they understand
what the reasoning for it all is rather than false hope that it's totally
cured.
MR. TEARS: You have to realize, the lake was really sick --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right.
MR. TEARS: -- and it had a major surgery; however, there's a
recovery period. You know, it just takes time for it to recover. But
it's really exciting. What we're seeing is all these aquatic species are
coming back, some of the native species are spawning. You know,
grass shrimp, a really good sign because they're very vulnerable and
susceptible to minor changes in their environment. So I'm extremely
excited about the progress we're making.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The other thing's a minor issue,
but still it's an important one, too. It's the artifacts that are at the
bottom of the lake that are protected right now by the muck.
MR. TEARS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And they identified a bunch of
them when they -- the lake dried up to a point where they could walk
out there and mark them down. Is there going to be anything to either
remove these or try to preserve them and protect them in some way?
MR. TEARS: Well, actually they've all been identified through a
study . Well, once we noticed the one, we did a study, identified all
the sites. And what's kind of exciting is that they were all identified in
a littoral zone. And with the shifting of this material, we don't have to
impact the littoral zone.
The state has decided to leave them in place and not disturb
them. And so the idea is we're leaving them in place and not
disturbing them through the rest of the restoration.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What we're talking about is
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May 26, 2009
dugout canoes that are thousands of years old that have been preserved
by the muck. It's economically infeasible for the museum to try to
rescue them and to try to preserve them. It would be an amazing
expense, so you leave them there for some future generation to be able
to work with.
Thank you.
MR. TEARS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I, too, have a question.
MR. TEARS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Only my question, could you just come to
my office one of these days? The answer's going to be way too
involved. I just want to know how, if all of these little things were
dead at one time, you know, all of the fishes and the grass shrimp and
so forth, how did they come back? But that's a--
MR. TEARS: Well, real quick. You know, the lake is -- to me,
is like the heart of the whole ecosystem in Collier County. You have
the CREW marshes that feed into the lake, and the lake feeds into the
Camp Keais Strand, so basically it's just the in-flows into the lake that
help the reproduction.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, that was simpler than I thought. I
thought I'd need an hour lesson.
MR. TEARS: No. I can give you the hour lesson, but, you
know, that's the short -- the short version.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It's just fascinating. Thank you.
MR. TEARS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commission -- County Manager Mudd. I
did it again.
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
Clearance, before you leave, just -- we put some information out
in front of the commissioners, and I'm not too sure the information
basically jelled as far as A TV sites and things like that. So I want to
make sure that we get this down for the record so that they understand
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May 26,2009
what you told them.
MR. TEARS: Yes.
MR. MUDD: Your last phase, which is to go back out to the
center and re-muck what you've already done, you're still going to use
this oil site that's out there by Lake Trafford in order to put that
material on; is that correct?
MR. TEARS: Yes, that's correct.
MR. MUDD: Okay. And you did say it would take 660 days, so
that's basically two years from now; is that correct --
MR. TEARS: That's correct.
MR. MUDD: -- after you award the contract?
MR. TEARS: Yes.
MR. MUDD: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Clarence.
MR. TEARS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We will move on.
Item #9A
RESOLUTION 2009-137: APPOINTMENT OF MEMBERS TO
THE SA YSHORE/GA TEW A Y TRIANGLE LOCAL
REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD - APPOINTING
LAFAYETTE N. INGRAM, III, LINDSAY THOMAS, STEPHEN C.
MAIN, JILL M. BARRY, MAURICE GUTIERREZ AND BRUCE S.
PREBLE - ADOPTED
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, that brings you to Board of County
Commissioners paragraph 9. Appointment of members to the
Bayshore/Gateway Triangle Local Redevelopment Advisory Board.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle? Oh, I thought
maybe you wanted to -- this is your district, so I thought maybe you
wanted to handle that one.
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes. I would support the
committee's recommendations.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion and second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
Item #9B
RESOLUTION 2009-138: APPOINTMENT OF MEMBER TO THE
HABITAT CONSERVATION PLAN AD HOC COMMITTEE -
APPOINTING ROBERT W. DORTA - ADOPTED
MR. MUDD: Brings us to 9B, appointment of a member to the
Habitat Conservation Plan Ad Hoc Committee.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Question?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Is this committee going to
sunset after the report that's due on 9/12?
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, that's a good question. There has
been some dialogue when you -- when you basically put this ad hoc
committee together, was is it going to look at all the different species
that were either endangered or on the threatened list? Then it was
decided by the board that they would take a look at the Red-cockaded
woodpecker particular issue as their primary alternative.
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May 26, 2009
I know they're working for the Red-cockaded Woodpecker
Conservation Plan, and I believe that subcommittee or this ad hoc
committee will come back to the board after they present that to
determine if you want them to take a look at additional plans or not.
If you remember, the Fish and Wildlife Commission
representative was quite -- he critiqued the committee and basically
talked about its wide scope when it was to look at all threatened and
endangered species and basically said it couldn't be done, and that's
why you narrowed it down to the Red-cockaded woodpecker
particular issue.
I have no idea. If you'd like, we can have this committee come
forward with a -- with a staff paper that basically says, this is what
they're going to recommend after they submit the Red-cockaded
woodpecker particular thing.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We'll have that ability after they
file that report to be able to sunset them or to continue them if there's
enough reason.
MR. MUDD: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. I make a motion to
approve the committee's recommendation.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Motion and a second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
MS. FILSON: And Commissioner, there's two additional
vacancies on this committee that I'm advertising for, and I asked them
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May 26, 2009
the same question.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Item #9C
RESOLUTION 2009-139: DECLARING A VACANCY ON THE
AFFORDABLE HOUSING ADVISORY COMMITTEE
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, that brings us to 9C. It's a
recommendation to declare a vacancy on the Affordable Housing
Advisory Committee.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve -- second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. A motion and a second.
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(No response.)
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, that basically concludes Paragraph
9, the Board of County Commissioners' appointments.
The next item would be -- and I'm not too sure you're going to
get this through before your 10:30 time certain. But without further
ado, I'm going to -- I'm going to read at least the top three that I
believe that are all here. Leo, you tell me if I'm wrong.
I'm a little breathless. My immune system is compromised and
somebody gave me bronchitis, okay? So I'm fighting not only the
brain-cancer business, did chemo, did radiation today, and now I'm
working the bronchitis piece. So that's the reason I'm a little bit
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May 26, 2009
breathless in this particular one.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You're doing fine on all three.
MR. MUDD: It's the commissioners' presence that did it to me, I
got it.
Item #IOA
RECOMMENDATION THAT THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS APPROVES THE CLAM BAY ADVISORY
COMMITTEE MISSION STATEMENT AS REQUIRED IN THE
CLAM BAY ADVISORY COMMITTEE ORDINANCE NO. 2008-
48 - APPROVED W/CHANGES
MR. MUDD: The next one is lOA. It's a recommendation that
the Board of County Commissioners approves the Clam Bay Advisory
Committee Mission Statement as required in the Clam Bay Advisory
Committee ordinance number 2008-48.
Mr. Gary McAlpin, coastal zoning management, will present.
There are -- there are some other items that are similar, and
basically deal with the same area, the Clam Bay estuary system, and
that would be lOB, and that's to recommend approval from the Board
of County Commissioners of the Clam Bay Pass maintenance
dredging permit application that is required to perform tidal flushing
of the Clam Bay estuary and is necessary to re-open the pass in the
event of storm closure.
Again, Gary McAlpin, your coastal zone management, will
present on that particular item.
And 10C, which is to recommend approval from the Board of
County Commissioners to install navigational markers in Outer Clam
Bay for the United States Army Corps of Engineers' permit
compliance and recommendation to move forward with permitting and
installation.
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May 26, 2009
Again, Gary McAlpin, your coastal zone management director,
will present.
You have three items that are similar. If you should take them on
individually, a separate motion for each. If you decide to do them as a
group, again, you're still going to need a separate motion for each.
MS. FILSON: And for lOA, I have five speakers; lOB, I have
four speakers; and 10C, I have 11 speakers.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. MUDD: And ma'am, we can do --let's try to do lOA before
the 10:30 time certain, and I think that would work out.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And we'll refrain from any questions from
the commissioners until after we've heard speakers.
MR. McALPIN: Thank you, Commissioners. For the record,
Gary McAlpin, coastal zone management.
Last year you established the Clam Bay Advisory Committee and
you asked us to come back to you with a mission statement that
outlined our specific functions, powers, duties, and develop a work
plan to come back to you for the long-term management and care of
this estuary.
We have done that. These have gone through the advisory
committees. The Clam Bay Advisory Committee approved this
mission statement 7-0 in February of this year, and the Coastal
Advisory Committee approved the mission statement on -- 4-1 on
March of this year.
From the mission statement, we were to -- a summary of the
mission statement would be to advise, assist, and make joint
recommendations on all major items affecting the management use
direction and long -- health and long-term viability of the estuary for
the powers and functions.
The group is an advisory committee making recommendations to
the Board of County Commissioners.
And for the duties, ma'am, we've listed all of our duties and
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May 26, 2009
responsibilities that -- in the ordinance, and they -- we have identified
12 duties and -- that this committee will take on, and we will be
defining those and integrating those into a management plan which we
will bring back to you at the end of this year.
I'm here to answer any questions that you may have on this item.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Mr. McAlpin.
Yes, Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. My question would pertain
to Gary, and he can answer it very quickly.
I only have one problem, and that is with the mission, functions,
powers, duties, and work plan. If we approve this, we're approving it
with a list of names for every subcommittee, which technically, if the
names change, somebody drops out, we have another appointment,
we're going to have to change the approval of the mission statement
here.
I don't know that it's necessary to name individuals who are
working on a particular task here in an approved mission statement.
So what I would suggest is, if you want to do that, you identify
the various subcommittees that they want to create and their duties but
not attach specific names of the advisory committee members to that.
You can do that on a separate designation by the advisory committee
itself.
MR. McALPIN: Thank you, Commissioner.
We have said that that -- on the work plan, the work plan may
change to -- to be able to achieve the duties, functions, and
responsi biliti es.
So if you would like to approve this subject to not having any
names identified for the work groups, that would be fine.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That would be my preference,
identify the subcommittees that you're creating, but don't identify the
individuals who are assigned to the subcommittees because you might
want to change those on a regular basis.
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May 26, 2009
MR. McALPIN: So noted.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And you don't want to come back
to us to get ratification of those changes. So I'm just saying --
MR. McALPIN: That's fine. I don't think there would be any
issues with that. I have do Jim Carroll here, who is the chairman of
the Clam Bay Advisory Committee.
Jim, do you have any comments that you'd like to make on that
or any other issues?
MR. CARROLL: Yes.
Commissioner Coyle, I certainly agree with your observation
because our experience -- we decided to have five subcommittees, and
we gave them all a name and so forth. We did say, as Gary
commented, that we wanted the flexibility to change that, and we
changed that.
We started out with a policy committee which prepared this
mission statement. We had the second committee, which is the permit
and navigational marker committee, and then the third committee,
which is a large one that has to do with a major study on water quality.
We set that up, but we soon found that two other committees,
four and five, that we tried to separate out details, we decided that they
really belonged together with the -- with the water quality committee,
and so we did just what you said. We changed our committees, and I
think not having their names is quite appropriate.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Good. And by the way, you're
doing a great job.
MR. CARROLL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. Would you call our speakers,
please.
MS. FILSON: The first speaker is Jennifer Sullivan. She'll be
followed by Robert Rogers.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You have three minutes.
MS. SULLIVAN: Okay. Good morning, thank you. I'm aa
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May 26, 2009
resident of Seagate, and I was just here this morning to please ask you
to consider voting for markers in our Clam Bay. It's a dangerous
situation out there for us when we try to take our small watercraft out.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Excuse me for interrupting you. Are you
registered to speak on the markers? This is just the mission statement.
MS. SULLIVAN: I put on different -- I'm not sure I put through
-- A through, I guess -- probably on the markers, probably speaking on
the markers.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: She is speaking on the markers.
MS. FILSON: Oh. She had A and C.
MS. SULLIVAN: Wasn't sure, sorry.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, no. That's all right. Thank you. I just
didn't want you to --
MS. FILSON: Brad Cornell.
MS. SULLIVAN: Should I finish or come back?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, come back.
MS. SULLIVAN: Okay.
MS. FILSON: Brad Cornell will be followed by Jim Burke, and
then Michael Sullivan also has lOA and C on his slip. Does he want
to speak for both or just C?
MR. SULLIVAN: I can wait for C.
MS. FILSON: Okay.
MR. CORNELL: Good morning, Commissioners. I'm Brad
Cornell and I'm here on behalf of Collier County Audubon Society.
I wanted to talk to lOA, lOB, and 10C, the mission statement, the
markers, and the dredging. I'll just speak to the mission statement by
making a general comment that Collier Audubon recommends that
you consider strongly prohibiting the use of combustion engines on
any vessels going through the Clam Bay system to get out to the Gulf.
It's too shallow a system. J've canoed it a number of times.
Troll and kicker motors would be the appropriate way to get
vessels out to the Gulf where then you can, again, implore your
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May 26, 2009
combustion engines. So I think that is a very appropriate designation.
That would require the repeal of 96-16. I don't think that's a big deal.
Any boats that have a gasoline engine, just pull it up, use your troll,
get out to the Gulf, and then put your motor back down.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Your final speaker is Mr. Jim Burke.
MR. BURKE: Jim Burke, a resident of Pelican Bay. And for
eight years of the ten years of the expiring Clam Bay permit I served
on the Pelican Bay Services Division board, and I'm currently on the
Coastal Advisory Committee.
And I'm on record as saying I was not happy with the creation of
this Clam Bay Advisory Committee, although I fully understood the
reasons it had to happen. And -- but I've been to every one of the
Clam Bay Advisory Committee Meetings, I've been to every one of
their subcommittee meetings, and I've become a huge supporter of this
committee.
You've appointed, I'm going to say nine -- I hope I'm right -- nine
outstanding people with some great leadership with Jim Carroll and
John Arceri. So I think what I'm trying to say is -- this is a vote of
confidence from me to them -- I'm glad Clam Bay is in their hands,
I'm confident in them, and I support the recommendations they're
making that are given to you today. And by the way, those were all
vetted by the Coastal Advisory Committee meeting, so they've been
thoroughly looked at.
So that's my statement. Thank you.
MS. FILSON: That was your final speaker, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What was the dissenting vote on
-- from CAC?
MR. McALPIN: The dissenting vote was Tony Pires, and Tony
Pires disagreed with some of the language, that he felt that it needed to
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May 26, 2009
come to the CAC and then to the Board of County Commissioners,
and there was some concern about that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Do you remember anything in
particular?
MR. McALPIN: I do not. I do not recall the specifics on that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: County Manager, any way in
the future -- I mean, I don't have a problem with the recommendation
from the Clam Bay Advisory Committee under their bylaws, but any
way in the future that we can get the board to approve their by laws
before actually doing the work?
I mean, we have from these subcommittees a whole bunch of
recommendations to the -- the whole committee, then to the Clam Bay
-- or the Coastal Advisory Board, and then now it's on our agenda. Is
there any way we can get that prior to the board approving in future
committees?
MR. MUDD: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Hopefully there won't be. I
don't know how many we have. What do we have, 52 or --
MR. MUDD: Fifty-seven or 58, but who's counting.
Commissioner, if the board wants to have subcommittee
recommendations come to them before it goes to the full committee --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah.
MR. MUDD: -- in case there's any work, we can -- that's
certainly doable.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That wasn't my concerns. My
concerns is creating -- the board creates an ordinance creating an
advisory board, and then the advisory board creates all kinds of
different committees, and then these committees start doing work and
making recommendations to full committee and other advisory boards
and now the Board of Commissioners.
Before those recommendations and work actually starts, just let
the board say, yea, or a little tweaking before they do the work.
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May 26, 2009
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. I think that's doable.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Other commissioners?
MR. MUDD: Advisory boards work for the Board of County
Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's one commissioner's statement.
How does everybody feel about that?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I think I need to have
some clarification on it --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- because I see the advisory
committees as the voice of the people. I want to make sure whatever
we do, we keep everything flowing forward.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, you're the voice of the
people because you were elected. The only thing is, is in this
ordinance it doesn't say anything about subcommittees, and these
subcommittees made recommendations now on our agenda, and I'm
just saying, before we do all that process, just so none of the board
members have a problem with their bylaws, before they get too far,
let's approve it. That's all.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Put it on our agenda.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I don't see the need to
micromanage these advisory committees. Just looking at it from the
standpoint of the Productivity Committee, they're always breaking up
into subcommittees to handle the workload. They don't need to take
the time to come to us to get approval to do that. They know what
their charge is.
And the committees, in my opinion, are responsible enough to
arrange and delegate responsibility to subcommittees in a responsible
manner. I don't know why we want to micromanage what they do and
how they organize their work.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, in the Productivity's
Committee, with all due respect, Commissioner Coy Ie, they have
subcommittees in their ordinance, all right. And it's not a
micromanaging. If we have to approve it, it's like we all have said in
the past, get permission before, you know -- instead of asking for
forgiveness, get permission. That's all.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Maybe what -- maybe this should be a
subject for a board meeting rather than discuss it during this subject.
What do you think? Because we're not going to change anything that's
happening on this -- in this agenda today, but maybe that would be
something to bring back.
And I would ask county manager if you would please do that.
Bring this item back and we can discuss it at a time when we'll be
focused just on that issue.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll make a motion to approve
Item lOA with the additional concerns of Commissioner Coyle.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion on the floor to
approve. Do I hear a second?
MR. MUDD: And just for clarification, that's basically a
recommendation for approval and putting no names down on the
particular issue, so there's some flexibility in the future?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion and a second.
Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. One of the things that I think
that everybody should realize, that when the list of names came up on
people who we want to put on this committee, this was vetted very
closely when we had discussions, and we wanted to make sure that we
put the right people on here to go forward, and I think we do that with
all of our committees that report to us, and that is that we try to
empower the people who are citizens in this county so that we make
sure that we address the concerns and issues that need to be addressed.
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May 26, 2009
And I feel that this committee, that the people that were put on
this were very -- were very well-versed, they were the people that
were on the CAC years ago, and there was also new people that were
put on this committee that had great ideas. And I commend the
chairman in regards to putting this whole thing together and getting
the people to work together, and I think that was great potential.
And I just feel that we don't need to micromanage. I think that if
we have concerns, that we can -- we have access to the chairmen of
these committees, and we can address our concerns with them.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That was it. That was from last
time.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, okay. I'm so sorry.
Okay. We have a motion on the floor to approve the Clam Bay
Advisory Committee Mission Statement, and this motion was made by
Commissioner Henning, it was seconded by Commissioner Coy Ie with
the addition Commissioner Coy Ie had added, which was approved in
the motion.
Okay. Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And now, Commissioner, we're going to
take a ten-minute break before we have our 10:30 time certain. Thank
you.
(A brief recess was had.)
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May 26, 2009
MR.OCHS: Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd please take your
seat.
Madam Chairman, you have a live mike.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Item #10H
TO RECEIVE GUIDANCE FROM THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS ON A REQUEST FROM THE COLLIER
COUNTY LEADERSHIP COUNCIL ON AGING TO USE THE
OLD GOLDEN GATE LIBRARY SITE FOR A SENIOR
RESOURCE CENTER - STAFF TO BRING BACK IDEAS FOR A
JOINT-USE~ LONG TERM LEASE - APPROVED
MR.OCHS: Ma'am, that takes us to your 10:30 a.m. time
certain, that item is 10H, to receive guidance from the Board of
County Commissioners on a request from the Collier County
Leadership Council on Aging, to use the old Golden Gate Library site
for a senior resource center.
Your public services administrator, Ms. Marla Ramsey, will
present.
MS. RAMSEY: Good morning. For the record, Marla.
Commissioners, on April 28th you had a petition from the Collier
County Leadership Council on Aging requesting to utilize the old
Golden Gate Library site for a senior reference center. And so since
that point in time, staff has met with the petitioners about three
different times and have gone to the Library Advisory Board meeting.
We sat down and talked about, what were some of the needs that
the library had that we were unable to fulfill at this moment due to
budget cuts and staffing limitations. And some of the things that we
had on our original list dealt with a large meeting room for various
programs, some library equipment so that the visually impaired, blind
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May 26, 2009
or low-limited visions, were able to take advantage of some literacy
programming, a center for the library's literacy program, the library's
information referral service, which is a service that we offer in
Immokalee.
And as you know, a number of years ago, we've been trying to
put together a two-in-one for the entire county to help with a reference
referral system. And then the library wanted to have like a continual
book sale area in the old library.
So we got together with the representatives of the Leadership
Council on Aging and told them what our list was, and then they took
it back, and they're going to give you a little presentation of how we
have kind of pulled together the meeting of the minds, so to speak, to
put together a partnership that we think will be good specifically for
the Golden Gate community but also for the entire community.
The Library Advisory Board did meet, and they voted 5-0 to
continue to pursue this partnership.
So I'm going to turn it over to Kathy Passidomo and Jane Billings
who's going to tell you a little bit more about what the footprint of this
facility would look like and what would be in it.
MS. P ASSIDOMO: Good morning, Commissioners. My name is
Kathleen Passidomo, and I'm here as a volunteer for the Senior
Friendship Center Medical and Dental Clinic and as a member of the
Leadership Council on Aging.
A large percentage of our membership of the council is here
today. They all were going to sign up to speak, but I've kind of kept it
down. But I would like all of our members to please stand up and be
recognized for -- thank you all for coming.
(Applause. )
MS. P ASSIDOMO: Just so you know, the membership of the
Leadership Council on Aging is the most diverse group of people that
I've come in contact with in my last couple years from every segment
of the community dealing with issues that relate to our senior
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May 26, 2009
population, medical, physical well-being. It's just a terrific
organization, and I hope that as we move forward we'll have an
opportunity to work together with the county, because you'll find we
have a great group here.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today regarding
our proposal to construct and operate a resource center designated for
adults aged 50 and older at the old Golden Gate Library site.
As Jane will describe, much has transpired since we first came to
the board last April with our initial proposal. Bearing in mind
Commissioner Henning's concern that he felt that it was important to
the citizens of Golden Gate that there be no diminution of programs
and services at the Golden Gate Library, we have spent the past month
meeting with library staff and the Library Advisory Board and have
found that we share the same goals and objectives, and we have
worked together to bring this updated proposal to you today.
I'm going to have Jane, who's the nuts-and-bolts person of our
group, describe what we plan on doing at the facility.
MS. BILLINGS: Thank you. Jane Billings of the Community
Foundation.
Much has happened since our last petition. In addition, we have
gained a deep appreciation of the need for the citizens of Golden Gate
to have input on what happens to the old Golden Gate Library.
We have met with many citizens groups and listened to their
concerns and suggestions. We've been working together with the
library and county staff and citizens advisory boards. As a result of
this feedback, we have substantially changed our proposal.
For the purposes of to day's discussion, there are three new pieces
of information that were not presented at our last meeting.
When the architects for the new library designed the master plan
for the library complex, they determined that it was not cost effective
to renovate the 40-year-old library, and it would likely need to be
demolished as it falls more into disrepair.
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May 26, 2009
The second new piece of information is it's also important to note
that due to financial restrictions, the library cannot make use of the old
library for any of the purposes planned. Plus, for the same reason, the
library has no plans to utilize the space until 2015. Conservatively, if
impact fees start coming in again, new construction would not happen
until 2020.
The third piece that has happened, which you've heard about, is
the library has shared with us the wish list of programs planned had it
been financially feasible to make full use of the 7000-square- feet old
library.
These include a large meeting/multi-purpose room for various
programs, a center for the adult literacy program, and classrooms
including computers for seniors, an equipment library for the blind
operated by the privately funded lighthouse organization, a volunteer
coordinator for library services, a 211 services office and workroom,
and a senior resource area with periodicals, reading tables, chairs,
book sale room and reception area.
When the Leadership Council on Aging and the library compared
their plans for future programs, we realized that with the exception of
the Senior Health Clinic, our plans were almost identical in their
vision. In our original proposal, the Leadership Council on Aging was
going to dedicate 3,000 square feet to senior resources and
information services and 4,000 square feet to the Senior Health Clinic.
The new proposal we present today is a result of the partnership
between the Golden Gate Library, the Leadership Council on Aging,
and the Senior Health Clinic. This proposal follows the library's
original plans for the removal of the old library and the privately
funded construction of a new building; however, instead of the 7,000
square feet planned, it would be expanded to approximately 11,000
square feet.
The Leadership Council on Aging and Lighthouse would
dedicate 7,000 square feet to support library programs and would use
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May 26, 2009
the remaining 4,000 square feet for the Senior Health Clinic.
There are specific benefits to Golden Gate with the old library
location. There are common resources, programs and facilities that
could be mutually shared by the new library and the Senior Resource
Center. There are currently 800 adults 50 and older registered at the
Golden Gate Community Center for the social programs and the new
senior lunch program. These adults could connect to all the services
provided at the Senior Resource Center and health clinic.
The additional privately paid staff at the 211 resource center
would help compensate for information services and referrals that the
existing library does not have the personnel to handle.
The addition of the privately funded lighthouse program would
help offset cutbacks the county's had to make on programs for the
visually impaired.
In these challenging economic times, public/private partnerships
make great sense if we seek to provide sustainable resources to our
citizens. The Golden Gate location would be a win-win for everyone.
The Senior Resource Center and health clinic would enrich this
thriving community center and help establish it as the crown jewel of
community gathering places, offering the very best in resources to its
adult citizens.
Located at the crossroads of our vital community, many more
citizens, both volunteers and residents alike, would visit the hub of our
community, and the resources provided at this location, particularly
211, would benefit all citizens of Collier County, both now and for
many years to come.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. P ASSIDOMO: We have a number of speakers that you
might be interested in hearing from. For example, we have the
medical director of the Senior Friendship Medical/Dental Clinic here,
we have a number of residents of Golden Gate who are particularly
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May 26, 2009
supportive of the program, and we would like to answer any questions
that you have regarding our proposal.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Kathleen, I'm going to first call on
Commissioner Henning, then we have five speakers, and then I have a
couple other commissioners lined up.
But Commissioner Henning, this is his district, so let me call on
him before our speakers.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Has staff determined that the
extra square foot would not need any more parking, or is there enough
room for more parking areas?
MS. RAMSEY : We had the architect look into that, a couple of
things we asked him to look for . We looked at the parking situation,
and he says there is enough for the additional square footage we have,
and we also looked at the water management, and we would have to
probably deepen the water management at Wheels by about six inches
in order to accommodate the water management area, but that's okay
because we already had that planned for the new Golden Gate Library
and pulled that off at that time. So we've got it in the plans to do that
for the future anyway.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. And just a comment.
The -- my concerns was net loss of library square foot, but similar. I
mean, I think -- I commend you for working with the needs within
Golden Gate.
I sent all the information out to concerned citizens, and I'm happy
to report that everybody is a lot more comfortable and -- at this time to
welcome the senior foundation to Golden Gate for a partnership, so
I'm going to make a motion to approve staffs recommendations.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Henning to approve staff recommendation and a
second by Commissioner Coletta.
Did you want to say something?
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. One other thing. There
was a number of items on here for federal grants for elderly people,
and I would just encourage this partnership to be holistic for the needs
of seniors. And Kathleen is -- one-on-one she has told me that they
want to make a one-stop-shop for senior citizens, so that's going to be
a great thing instead of being fragmented all over.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It sure sounds like it will be. I think we
all agree. Are you thinking of your father, Dr. Senadi (phonetic), right
now?
MS. PASSIDOMO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I just knew it. Now we have five
speakers who are registered to speak. We already have a motion on
the floor to approve this item and to second it. Would those five
speakers like to just waive and say, great, go for it? We'll call them
one by one.
MS. FILSON: Deborah Bastain?
MS. BASTAIN: I can waive it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Waive? Okay.
MS. BASTAIN: Yes.
MS. FILSON: Sandra Martin?
MS. MARTIN: I waive.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MS. FILSON: Jim Klug.
MR. KLUG: I'm okay.
MS. FILSON: Mark Hahn?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MS. FILSON: And Edward Banaszak?
MR. BANASZAK: Banaszak. I waive, too.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Thank you all for waiving. This is
a good thing, and I'm just delighted that -- you can see the cooperation
and the compromises here that have been achieved, and I appreciate
everybody working so diligently to make that happen.
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May 26, 2009
Marla?
MS. RAMSEY: Just so that everybody knows what the motion
is, in the audience as well, is -- as I understand it, is that you're going
to ask us to further look into a joint-use facility, a long-term lease
agreement, and bring it back to the board for adoption; is that correct?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct.
MS. RAMSEY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I would assume there's
going to be -- the responsibilities of the foundation was in the
agreement and the county's responsibilities?
MS. RAMSEY: Most definitely, sir.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I think everything's been
pretty-well said. It was an honor to be a second on the motion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, that's nice.
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Nothing.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Nothing?
Okay, fine. Wow, that was pretty easy, wasn't it? Pretty nice.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Great. Have fun.
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, do you want to take just a moment
to let the room clear?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I think we can move on.
Page 59
May 26, 2009
Item #10B
THE CLAM PASS MAINTENANCE DREDGING PERMIT
APPLICATION THAT IS REQUIRED TO PERFORM TIDAL
FLUSHING OF CLAM BAY ESTUARY AND IS NECESSARY
TO RE-OPEN THE PASS IN THE EVENT OF STORM CLOSURE
- APPROVED W/CHANGES
MR.OCHS: Madam Chair, that takes us to Item lOB.
Recommend approval from the Board of County Commissioners of
the Clam Pass maintenance dredging permit application that is
required to perform tidal flushing of Clam Bay estuary and is
necessary to reopen the pass in the event of a storm closure.
Gary McAlpin, your coastal zone management director, will
present.
MR. McALPIN: Thank you. Commissioners, for the record,
Gary McAlpin, coastal zone management.
The item you have before you is to obtain approval for the permit
application. The existing ten-year permit had a one-year extension,
and that extension will expire in July of this year.
We need a permit so that we can continue to perform tidal
flushing, maintenance dredging of the estuary, and also open the
estuary in case we get a trop- -- a storm event and it closes. We need
a permit to re-open it at that point in time.
This permit application is for the cut, and the dredging is exactly
the same as the previous permit. The -- where we placed the sand on
the beach has changed because the dune elevations has changed, but
the cut has -- and the cross-sections are exactly the same. We did that
so that -- so that we could minimize the controversy associated with
this permit.
It went through the Clam Bay Advisory Committee permit
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May 26, 2009
subcommittee and passed 3-0. It went through the Clam Bay
Advisory Committee main committee, and the permit was approved
7-2 on 3/19, and the Coastal Advisory Committee recommended
unanimously for approval of this permit application.
So we are looking at the permit application. The permit will take
approximately nine months to get, and we are also seeking approval
that -- to go forward with another one-year extension on the existing
permit application. One-year extension on the permit application so
that we can be covered until this new permit application is processed
and granted by DEP and the Corps.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. We have speakers?
MS. FILSON: We have six speakers.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Would you please call our
speakers.
MS. FILSON: Marcia Cravens is the first speaker. She'll be
followed by Rich Y ovanovich.
MS. CRA YENS: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Thank you
for the opportunity to address you on this most important issue for
many of us who are environmental advocates and who love this
outstanding natural resource area called the Clam Pass Natural
Resource Protection Area.
The first thing I'd like to address is a petition drive that the
Mangrove Action Group, of which I am the president, has been (sic)
conducted and which we have collected over 2,000 signatures of other
environmentally minded people who do object to all of these projects
that are targeting Clam Bay.
If you would like to see all 2,074 signatures, I can certainly
provide them to you. But right now I just have a letter and an example
of the petition itself.
In addressing the dredging permit, I just want to say that this
permit application is not exactly what is currently in place. All these
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May 26, 2009
little blue marks, these are places where it differs.
Primarily, one of the big places where it differs is in the depth of
the dredge cutting full area, which is -- the cuts in number four are in
Clam Pass itself.
Yes, it's true that that permit was modified to allow a dredging
design that would widen Clam Pass as a trial, but that modification
specifically stated that it would not change the depth, that it would be
required to remain at the negative four MGD- -- 4-foot MGVD.
There's some other things that are wrong with this. It doesn't
describe that it's in a NRP A, it doesn't describe that it affects wetlands,
it doesn't describe that it affects seagrasses, and I won't go on from
there.
Another consideration is that all of this is within an undeveloped
coastal barrier resource area in Cobra as Florida 64 P.
That is the outline of the OP A, otherwise protected area. That
needs to be a consideration as you go forward with anything that
occurs that might alter anything within this protected area.
I also would like to read to you something from the South Florida
Water Management District, Chapter 40E, surface water management,
rules adopted. Conservation easement means a rider interest in
property pursuant to 704.06, Florida Statute, which is appropriate to
retain in land or water areas predominantly in our natural, scenic,
open, agricultural, or wooded condition.
Retaining such areas is suitable habitat for fish, plants or wildlife.
Retaining the structural integrity or physical appearance of sites or
properties of historic architectural, archaeological, or cultural
significance are maintaining existing land uses which prohibits any or
all of the following.
And it goes on to talk about construction of various things,
destruction of trees, excavation dredging, surface use except purposes
that the permit is done.
I had a lot more that I could say. But can I just add one thing?
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May 26, 2009
Chairman Fiala, there was an emai} from you to a Jeanne Findlater, a
resident of Pelican Bay, whereby she had asked for the Clam Bay
issues to be moved from consent agenda to the regular agenda.
You responded to her and indicated that all of the stuff would be
discussed in the afternoon after one p.m. That is why none of us were
here for that first issue of lOA. And I'd like to beg your consideration
that you have not heard from a lot of people on that particular item
because of the email that was widely circulated, and we'd like to ask
for reconsideration of it at a later date, either later this after- -- you
know, later now as the email had indicated.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'm sorry. I was wrong in that, and we
can hear the next item, the 10C, after -- after one. I don't know when
it will be, but it will be after -- after --
THE AUDIENCE: No.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No? No. Everybody wants to hear it
now. They're all here, so --
MS. CRAVENS: Well, I don't know that we might be needing to
ask for a reconsideration of this because, as I said, this was a
widely-circulated email.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You know, I don't remember saying one
o'clock, but I'm sure I must have.
MS. CRAVENS: You did indicate there was a one o'clock
time-certain in your email, but you did not indicate that there was
potential for this to be moved into a morning item.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: Chairman's discretion. I don't know what to
say. Chairman's discretion. It's on the agenda. It's not notified as a
time-certain. The agenda's widely circulated. As far as
reconsideration goes, the five of you can make that motion. It's up to
you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Would it hurt any -- if I've made an error
to -- you know, in stating that to one person -- and I'm sorry that I did.
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May 26, 2009
I didn't even realize that I did that. Because there were so many
emails coming in at the time that I was answering, and there were
time-certains, and so -- but on different items, and I didn't realize I had
done that. Will that hurt this item at all or no?
MR. KLA TZKOW: No, I don't think so, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine. Okay. And--
MR.OCHS: Commissioner?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, sir.
MR. OCHS: Ms. Ramsey has some -- I believe some additional
information that might help clarify this email question.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Great.
MS. RAMSEY: I believe that the situation was actually for the
last board meeting. The email that you sent out was for the last board
meeting. We didn't bring it on the last board meeting. We moved it to
this board meeting.
There was a confusion that we thought it was going to be on the
last one, and your email was referencing to the board meeting prior,
not this one.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, thanks. Okay, phew. All right.
Thank you very much.
Next speaker?
MS. FILSON: Rich Yovanovich. He'll be followed by Jim
Hoppensteadt.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Phew.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Good morning. For the record, Rich
Y ovanovich on behalf of the Pelican Bay Foundation. As the Pelican
Bay Foundation has said in the past, the concern with the dredging
application itself is verifying that, in fact, the application is exactly
like the existing permit.
The foundation also, as you all know, is the declar- -- has become
the declarant under the quitclaim deed and declaration of covenants
and restrictions applicable to this area of Collier County. And as the
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May 26, 2009
declarant, they're responsible for making sure that the health of the
estuary and the conservation area is maintained.
We had been requesting the ability to review the permit
application under the quitclaim deed requirements that it come first to
the foundation before any formal action is taken. That didn't happen;
however, we did receive a letter recently requesting our, quote,
endorsement of the permit.
We sent a letter to Mr. McAlpin explaining why we couldn't
endorse a permit with such little time to actually review the materials;
however, we did say that -- to go ahead and submit it to the agencies
and that the foundation would review the permit itself, the application
for itself, to make sure that it is exactly the same as what was
previously approved, that the health of the estuary will, in fact, be
benefited by the application, that the dredging is for tidal flushing and
not for navigation issues, that the foundation's property near where the
dredging will occur will, in fact, be -- won't be negatively impacted by
this dredging.
And the foundation will be engaging experts to review all the
materials and providing the comments to the staff if necessary, if it's --
if there are issues that need to be raised. We would -- we would like
the board to make it very clear that although there is a budget item that
shows that dredging could occur every three years, we understand that
to be for budgeting purposes but not an indication that dredging will
happen on a routine basis.
We understand that this is a dredging application, that the
dredging will, in fact, occur when the science says dredging needs to
occur for tidal flushing and for the health of the mangroves.
That's a big concern for the residents of Pelican Bay and the
foundation in particular, so we would -- we would like that clarified
because there's -- there's information out there that honestly could be
interpreted to mean this would be happening every three years as a
routine because that's what it's being budgeted for. We just want to
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May 26, 2009
make sure that it is really a tidal flushing issue and that's just a budget
mechanism and not an actually mandate to dredge every three years.
And again, we appreciate the effort or receiving the letter from
Gary, and we've -- we are trying to express our concerns up front as
we have all along, and we hope the commission will hear those
concerns and ask staff to clarify the navigation dredging issue and that
it is not a navigation dredge, it is a tidal flushing dredge.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Jim Hoppensteadt. He'll be followed by Brad
Cornell.
MR. HOPPENSTEADT: Thank you, Commissioners. Jim
Hoppensteadt.
The only thing I would add to Mr. Y ovanovich's statements are --
and this is consistent with a comment that I'll make on 10K, again, is
the indication that TDC funds are indicated to be used for this, which
is for beach renourishment.
The schedule of dredging does show up on the TDC schedule on
a reoccurring basis. That's a concern to us that is, in fact, not being
done for tidal flushing but for beach renourishment. And we are
concerned, as Mr. Y ovanovich indicated, that recurring scheduled
dredging could have a detrimental effect.
MS. FILSON: Brad Cornell. He'll be followed by Kathy
Worley.
MR. CORNELL: Good morning, again. I'm Brad Cornell on
behalf of Collier County Audubon Society, and I appreciate the
opportunity to comment on this dredge portion of the Clam Bay set of
.
Issues.
I want to emphasize that we consider dredging must be limited to
maintenance for ecologically necessary tidal flushing for the estuarine
mangrove system only. Dredging is not appropriate for navigational
purposes, as this is the only natural shallow estuarine back bay system
in the county. That's one of the reasons it's a natural resource
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May 26, 2009
protection area. So that's an important point to keep in mind when
considering how we're going to maintain this system. Dredging for
navigation is counter to that and a conflict.
I'd like to offer what might be a useful suggestion relative to this
dredge permit, and that is to suggest what I believe the technical
experts on the committee had recommended, which was, rather than a
new ten-year permit be pursued now, rather consider extending the
permit that exists and finish the ecological studies necessary to support
a new ten-year permit so that we have all the data and substantiation
for a new permit rather than jump into that without all of that
completed.
I would strongly recommend your consideration of that option. It
would just be an extension as you've already had one year for the
present permit. Do that for another period of time until we can
complete these ecological studies necessary for a new permit.
Thank you very much.
MS. FILSON: Kathy Worley. She'll be followed by Jeanne
Findlater.
MS. WORLEY: Hi. I did send you all an email, but you
probably didn't get it because it was sent Memorial Day, but I do have
copies of the letter for your perusal. There's one for staff.
I'm just going to briefly talk about a few things that are within the
letter. And as far as the dredging permit application, the following
that I'm going to say is a minority opinion as written by one of the two
technical experts that served on the Clam Bay Committee, both who
voted no on this -- on approving this permit application.
And while I appreciate the fact that many of the suggestions
made by the Clam Bay Subcommittee were incorporated into this
version of the permit, I still have some major concerns. And first is
dealing with the dredge cut specifications.
According to the reports which were done by Clam Pass
restoration, plan monitoring report number eight and Clam Bayf
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May 26, 2009
restoration and management eighth annual report that were prepared
by county consultants, Humiston, Moore -- Humiston and Moore and
Turrell and Associates respectively -- according to these reports, the
dredge and depth width in 2007 caused the pass to fill in faster than
the smaller cut specifications, which were done in 2002.
And I really would like to see comparisons between these two
dredging events and the subsequent inlet response to -- and beach
erosion and how the beach profiles have developed over time in order
to make an informed decision regarding the optimum dredge cut
specifications, particularly at the pass.
And one option that Brad mentioned briefly before me was that --
it hasn't been presented to you as an option, is that -- but it would
allow for dredging in case of a storm closure or while allowing time --
while allowing the time necessary to gather the data to design a whole
management plan, and that's to apply for an extension.
Now, Gary did indicate he was applying for an extension to
cover the lapse in time between this and when a permit could possibly
be approved, but you could also get an ext- -- a couple -- be more than
one year, but you could get a couple extensions so that you would
have the time to perform biological, ecological, and physical studies
so that you can have a more-informed approach to design to keep the
pass open for ecological concerns.
I'm concerned we're putting the cart before the horse, okay?
We'll be able to make more informed decisions about long-term pass
maintenance if we study the whole system first rather than jumping
into a ten-year permit.
And I guess I'll finish up. But I respectfully ask you to take this
option until a management plan has been adopted, and it's premature
to be making decisions such as initiating a ten-year plan -- I believe
it's more viable and sensible to be -- a sensible plan at this stage to get
another extension and to do all the studies.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
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May 26, 2009
MS. WORLEY: So that you have time to investigate. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Jeanne Findlater.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Jeanne, I am so sorry about that email.
MS. FINDLATEN: No, please, Madam Chair.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I never expected us to be this far ahead.
MS. FINDLATEN: It all worked out fine. It's fine. And I thank
you all for this opportunity.
I love the ten-year plan, the proposed ten-year plan, at least the
part that I was interested in, and I'm here to speak about dredging.
First I'll introduce myself. The name is Jeanne Findlater, and I'm
a 30-year resident of Collier County, the last seven years in Pelican
Bay, where I have the privilege, along with about 7,800 other owners,
of enjoying that magnificent natural resource.
I'm extremely concerned about the provisions for dredging, and I
really applaud the compromises that were just introduced by the last
two speakers. We -- it's so frightening to see that 450,000, nearly a
half-million dollars, is proposed being set aside to dredge every three
years when we don't know any of the effects on that fragile ecosystem
that now supports millions of marine creatures and thousands of birds.
Dredging at that level of expense is far more than has ever been
done before for tidal flushing. So it is ominous because it suggests that
dredging would be done for marine purposes, and we have no
knowledge of what that effect would be on that estuary or that nesting
place.
I beg you to please consider that we do serious ecological studies
first. There have been no serious ones done of that nature on that level
since Westinghouse first put this together, and yet we are talking
about going forward with formidable, possible formidable
consequences.
An item missing from the ten-year plan that disturbed is no
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May 26, 2009
money has been set aside to provide for monitoring of assuredly
devastating effects of dredging at the level that the plan suggests could
take place.
I know there's a big impetus from the neighboring community. I
heard at some of the subcommittee meetings that one woman, in fact, I
think in this very room, stood up and said, my community stinks. And
I understand that can happen when your community is built upon a
mangrove swamp.
But I also say that that community has never addressed surface
runoff the way Pelican Bay has so successfully. They don't have
bubblers in their canals. Probably that community couldn't exist if it
were started today.
But to say in their hope -- and I understand how passionately
they must feel -- that by dredging the outer Clam Bay and the other
water systems that that could somehow solve that problem is possibly
.
naIve.
Thank you. I urge a study, please. Thank you sincerely.
MS. FILSON: That was your final speaker, Madam Chairman.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. It's pretty clear in our
executive summary in a couple of places is the existing ten-year
permit that provides for tidal flushing, maintenance dredging of Clam
Pass, has expired and a one-year extension has been granted.
In the past have we done tidal flushing or tidal dredging for --
because of the fact of the Clam Pass has been closed up? And how
many times in the past ten years have we did any dredging in case it
has --
MR. McALPIN: Thank you, Mr -- Commissioner Halas. In the
past -- with the past ten-year permit, we have performed three tidal
flushing events. In April of 1999 we performed one. The first
original tidal flushing event, 32,000 cubic yards of material were
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May 26, 2009
removed. The dredge cut was minus 5.5, the width cut was 30, and
the permit width was 80.
In January, 2002, the permit width was 80, the width of the cut
was 40, the dredge depth was 5.5, and we removed 12,000 cubic
yards.
In April of 2007, the permit width was 80, the actual cut width
was 80, the dredge depth was 5.5, and we removed 21,000 cubic
yards.
So we have dredged this for, three times, for flushing and only
tidal flushing on this past ten-year permit.
The way the permitting system works is we make an application
to DEP, and the application we will make will be exactly the same as
the application that is in there right now for an 80-foot-wide cut at the
mouth of the pass and going down to 5.5. That's not to say that when
we get ready to do a dredging event because of tidal flushing needs
that it will be that. We have to then go back to the Department of
Environmental Protection, we have to apply for a permit, a notice to
proceed. We provide them all the engineering, we provide them all
the documentation, and then they issue us a notice to proceed based on
the permit that was granted. So we anticipate doing exactly the same
thing.
We are not looking for this to be for navigational dredging. We
are looking for this to continue to be tidal -- maintenance dredging,
permit flushing. That's exactly what we're looking to do here.
The Environmental Services Board of Collier County has -- has
issued a letter of consistency with the Growth Management Plan and
the Land Development Code on this, so they are saying that this
permit application is consistent with both the LDC and the Growth
Management Plan.
The other thing that we have told the group here is that this is
only for tidal flushing. It is not for maintenance dredging whatsoever.
And tidal flush will control. We are not looking to -- to -- we look --t
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May 26, 2009
we take the sand out of here that is beach-quality sand and we place it
on the down-drift beaches. But we will only initiate a dredging event
when the science tells us that tidal flushing is required.
We use TDC funds to do this because, again, this is beach-quality
sand and we re-nourished Clam Pass Beach Park, so it's a win-win
situation. We dredge the estuary for tidal flushing to make it healthy,
and we use that sand to re-nourish the beaches.
The reference to doing this every three years, well, we have in
the last ten years, we've done it every -- we've done it three times.
What we try to do is pull together a ten-year plan for the use and
allocation of TDC funds only for budgeting, and we look to do this
only for a budgeting cycle and so that we know whether we have
enough money for the tidal -- for the entire fund allocation.
So just because we have allocated it on a three-year cycle doesn't
necessarily mean that that's when that dredging event will happen.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. A follow-up question. It
was stated by one of the speakers that we're allocating $450,000 for
this possible dredging. Has that been the same amount that we've --
it's cost us in the past?
MR. McALPIN : Yes, it has.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MR. McALPIN: In the last -- in the last dredging event, it was
450,000, and so I just reallocated that on a three-year cycle.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. Why is there such
opposition to this? Has there -- was there opposition to this when we
first pulled the permit ten years ago?
MR. McALPIN: I can't comment on that. I know that there
hasn't been opposition in the past dredging event when we went and
made our application for tidal flushing dredging. I believe that the
opposition has come up since the Clam -- the Pelican Bay community
has been awarded the -- on the quitclaim deed, the restrictions, the
covenant's restrictions, and I believe that they want to look into this
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May 26, 2009
and make sure that we are doing the right thing in terms of tidal
flushing dredging.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. So from what I read on our
executive summary, unless you -- unless staff hasn't been upfront with
us, there is really no Trojan horse on this.
MR. McALPIN: None whatsoever. The permitting agencies
want to see a long permit life that -- because they don't have to go
back and -- permitting process is very expensive and very
time-consuming. That's why they look for a ten-year permit.
The question was, why don't you get a one-year -- another
one-year extension and get this resolved, but we don't know if the
DEP will give us a one-year extension.
What they want to see happening is they want to see their
permanent -- the application for a permanent permit to be put in there,
which will help us move forward with the one-year extension. Their
counsel to us is, go for another ten-year extension, and that's what
we're looking to do.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And the final question is, is this
also part of the Corps of Engineers' permit that we have, that we have
MR. McALPIN: We have to get an extension from FDEP and
the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And we've gotten the one-year
extension?
MR. McALPIN: We have gotten a one-year extension. If the
board directs us to do that, we'll get another permit, one-year -- we'll
apply for another one-year permit extension.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And what's that cost run us?
MR. McALPIN: That is usually nominal. And they usually do
not ask for information; however, we've been told that they're going to
scrutinize it at this point in time after the initial first step,
Commissioner.
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. Do we have any -- any
studies in the past on what we've done in the past as far as dredging
and the water quality back there?
MR. McALPIN: No. We don't have any studies relative to
dredging and water quality, how they've been interrelated. We have --
we have dredged typically when the tidal flushing has not reached the
same levels that it has in the past, and that's typically what has been
done, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What -- how much is being
allocated from TDC funds for this permit?
MR. McALPIN: For the permit -- we've applied $25,000 for this
permit application using TDC funds, and that has been approved
previously.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The executive summary says,
the item will be presented to the TDC for funding approval prior to
proceeding.
MR. McALPIN: This has been approved by the TDC. I believe
I say here that --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. You've answered that
question.
Are you anticipating a lot of public input for this permit? Would
that $25,000 cover extra scrutiny?
MR. McALPIN: If it -- I don't expect that we will apply experts
on our end. If it doesn't cover our out-of-pocket costs, then we will
come back to the board and ask for additional money through an
addendum to the work order.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What about if it's challenged?
MR. McALPIN: If it's challenged, we'll go through the challenge
process. We believe that -- you know, we have -- we have -- we'll go
through the challenge process. And if we need additional funds, we'llt
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May 26, 2009
ask for additional funding.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I guess my concern is, ifit
is challenged, isn't it better to try to work with all the parties so you
don't have a challenge? And from what I hear is, don't trust
government. It's not anything new, not in this particular issue, is -- so
how can we work together so you're successful in this permit?
MR. McALPIN: We believe we have worked with all the
parties. Again, this has been approved by the Clam Bay Advisory
Committee, we went through a complete vetting process by the
subcommittee of the Clam Bay Advisory Committee, by the main
committee of the Clam Bay Advisory Committee, by the Coastal
Advisory Committee. So we've worked and vetted this. There's some
people out there who are -- have some concerns. They are the
minority opinion at this point in time, but we have clearly vetted this
process.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: There's a suggestion to extend
the existing permit, whether it be expired or not. Is that an option that
you can ask DEP is to work under that permit and then apply for a
ten-year management -- or a ten-year permit once the management
plan has been or -- let me try to clarify.
Apply for the existing permit or the expired permit, and if that
cannot be done, apply for what you're asking us here to do today.
Would you -- could you accept that and -- if the Board of County
Commissioners makes a motion to that effect?
MR. McALPIN: I'm not sure I quite understand. What we are
asking you to do today is to approve the application for a new ten-year
and also grant us a one-year extension to the existing permit.
DEP has come back to us, and they do not like one-year
extensions. They want to see you working towards the main permit,
the main -- for the next period of time. That's their preferred approach
moving forward. So we're trying to work with the agencies, the
permitting agencies, which will allow us to do that.
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right. But the suggestion was,
apply for the one-year extension. Get the management plan for the
whole estuarine system, and then apply for the ten-year permit. And
all I'm suggesting is, if the DEP says no, we're not going to give you a
one-year extension, we want you to -- we want you to do a longer one
like you're suggesting -- and my question is, if the board makes that a
part of the motion, try to do the two step but also so you don't have to
come back, if they don't want the two step, is just do the ten-year
permit. Can you accept that?
MR. McALPIN: Yes. I will accept any direction the board gives
us.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's what I would -- I mean,
boy, to have this challenged, this permit to be challenged, only to
work for the common good, from what I'm understanding, is the
flushing for this estuarine system, that would be devastating if it
closed up, and then everybody loses.
MR. McALPIN: That's why we have diligently been working
this permit application for an extended period of time, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I don't doubt that, but I just hear
that I don't trust government.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, there's a way to solve that.
And what can you put into this approval process that will give people
comfort that you're only going to do it when it has been determined it
is absolutely necessary under the terms of the permit and, furthermore,
that there will be -- it would be vetted in the public whenever you get
ready to do the dredging; is that not correct?
MR. McALPIN: We have stated that in the permit application.
We have said that the permit -- the applic- -- the primary function of
this permit is for tidal flushing, the primary goal is for tidal flushing,
and a side benefit of this is for beach renourishment. That's clearly
been stated in the draft permit application that is out there ready to be
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May 26, 2009
submitted, Commissioner. I don't know how we could be clearer than
that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Do you have that with you?
MR. McALPIN: I do not have the permit with me, the permit
application with me. We can get it very quickly though.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I would be very interested in seeing
the language, and I think a lot of the people in the audience would be
interested in seeing the language. So it is the primary point of
contention. Let's remove the point of contention by demonstrating
that the permit specifically provides that language. And the best way
to do that is to show people a copy of the permit.
MR. McALPIN: Be happy to do that, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do you want to wait to vote on this until
we see that permit?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We can do it two ways. We can
approve it contingent upon that language actually being in the permit,
or we can table it and wait until Gary can show it to the public and
demonstrate that it is in there.
MR. McALPIN: Commissioner, it is in the public. It's on our
website, so -- it's on the coastal zone management website. If you
want to, we could pull that up and we could -- or I could get copies of
it, hard copies of it and bring it here. However you want to do it. It is
-- it is available to the entire public because it's on our website.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, if it's on our web, you
could just pull it up on the computer and put it on the visualizer.
MR. McALPIN: It's going to take a little bit of time to do that, if
you want to move on to the next item, we -- however you want to do,
Commissioners.
MR.OCHS: Commissioners, if you want to move on to the next
item and I can ask Mr. Sheffield to work to pull that up and identify it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, I think we'll do that. But I have a
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question on this item, if I may.
MR. McALPIN: Okay. And Mr. Carroll would like to make a
statement, too.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. My question was, I was just
wondering, you said that you've done three tidal flushing events; is
that what you told us?
MR. McALPIN: Dredging events, yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Dredging events?
MR. McALPIN : We have dredged the tidal flushing three times.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: In the last ten years?
MR. McALPIN: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: In those three times that you did any of
this tidal flushing dredging, did -- has there been any harm or has there
been any damage or any repercussions from it at all?
MR. McALPIN: No, ma'am. It's all been positive. We've kept
the estuary open. It has been -- we've used it in -- for -- it's maintained
the health of that, it's improved the reach estuary, so there's been
absolutely no harm whatsoever over the past three events over the past
ten years.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Boy, that's a good record, if you ask me.
Okay . We're going to wait until you can pull this up. Do you
think you can do that right away, or do you need a few minutes?
MR. McALPIN: If you'll let me, I'll come over there and pull it
up while Jim Carroll is speaking.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. CARROLL: I was on the services division when we got the
ten-year permit, which was about 12 years ago. That was a great day
when we got that permit because we had been experiencing storms
closing the pass and having a great deal of difficulty getting short-term
permits.
When we got the 10-year permit, we then had the opportunity to
face up to a very difficult problem we were having. I'm sure you've
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heard of the die-offwe had in the northwest corner. It took us about
four years of work to really solve that problem and really develop the
whole flushing principal that we now use.
Kathy W orIey was part of that team as we worked at developing
that flushing. The whole flushing idea evolved then, and the whole
situation then became very positive.
A statement was just made and very true; we've had ten, 12 years
of excellent results in the mangrove forest. I believe we ought to go
right ahead and approve this. I understand the concerns. We're not
going to dredge this thing every three years. We're going to dredge it
when it needs to be dredged, and that can be determined by observing
up through the flushing channels whether the whole situation is
deteriorating. And if it deteriorates, then we can anticipate that we
need to dredge and then we dredge.
There's been some controversy about whether it should be 80 feet
wide or 40 feet wide, that kind of thing. What happens is, when you
get ready to do this, when you feel like you have to dredge, whether
it's a gradual thing because of the flushing or if it's a storm which was
very sudden, when you have to do that, you have to get another
permit, and then you face up to details about the size of it.
I don't really think we need to do any more. We know how to do
this. We need that permit, I believe, to take care of things, maybe
following Commissioner Coyle's comment that we -- you know, we
confirm that this will be the case by putting it into the writeup, and we
can do that. But I just feel like we need the permit. We've had good
experience with it. We're ready to go.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Mr. Carroll. You know, as
you have spoken and according to my, you know, the answers to my
questions before, if everything has remained healthy because of this
dredging, and if we've been able to keep that area flushed so that these
mangroves have come back to life, I have a problem understanding
what the opposition is for it. I mean --
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May 26, 2009
MR. CARROLL: I totally agree. I think there's been some
concern expressed about the fact that we're doing this in order to
provide sand for the park there. That's just not so. That's not the
reason you dredge.
When you dredge you've got some sand, and if it's beach quality,
sure, we ought to put it on the beach, but that's not the reason we want
to do this.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's the after-effect of the dredging
though.
MR. CARROLL: That's right.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I mean, the point is, you're dredging in
order to keep this system healthy, to keep it alive, to keep everything
flushed, and I just don't understand the opposition to it.
MR. CARROLL: I don't either.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You get some sand from it, you can use it
on the beach. That isn't the reason you do it.
MR. McALPIN: Commissioner, what happens is in the permit
application, they ask you a series of questions.
MR.OCHS: Gary?
MR. McALPIN: Commissioner, again, Gary McAlpin. They
ask you a series of questions in the permit application, and the first
one dealt -- the first four or so dealt with locations.
Item number five, the first item that comes up, describe in
general terms the proposed activities including any phasing. The
proposed project consists of dredging a portion of Clam Pass to aid in
flushing and improving environmental resources. Dredging activity
will be consistent with the previous authorization to station 1,800.
The total linear feet is approximately 1,800. Beach-compatible
sand will be used along Collier County Clam Pass Beach Park located
within the Clam Pass.
Describe the purpose, Item 7. The dredging of Clam Pass has
been showed to aid in flushing of Clam Bay in the interior channel
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May 26, 2009
channels (sic) to improve environmental resources. Beach compatible
material dredged from the maintenance of Clam Pass will be placed on
the beach.
Have you obtained approval -- okay. I mean, and throughout this
whole thing when they talk about the purpose, we continue to go
through it and identify it's for tidal flushing and improvement of the
tidal resources and that the sand will be placed on previous
downstream beaches.
So I think we're consistent with what we have done in the past,
Commissioners. I think we are consistent with the direction that we've
been given through these advisory committees. And I don't know how
we can be clearer than this.
The other thing you have to remember is that just because we
make a permit application, the DEP and the Corps of Engineers are
going to scrutinize this, and they may come back, and this permitting
process will take nine months, maybe a year, and they're going to ask
for additional information.
So what we're trying to do is start the process, you know. Make
the permitting application and start the process.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Maybe we can cut to the chase.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Plain language is very, very
important to all of us, okay? So under Item 5, why don't we say that
the proposed dredging is to be performed only when the science
indicates that it is necessary for the purpose of providing flushing and
improving environmental resources. Okay? That removes the
uncertainty that exists between this statement, this fairly general
statement, and your budget, which says you've got it budgeted every
year.
So if you're clearly stating that it's only going to be accomplished
when the science indicates that it needs to be done, then that should
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May 26, 2009
remove any objections from anybody who has a suspicion that you're
really trying to sneak in a dredging project every year.
MR. McALPIN: Commissioner, we have no problem with that
whatsoever.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. And I think -- does that --
okay. I see Mr. Hoppensteadt nodding his head affirmatively. That
seems to satisfy his objections and concerns. So we've got it solved,
right?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You got a motion?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I'll make a motion we
approve it.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And I second it with those --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: With the changes?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: -- changes just explained.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And Commissioner Halas, did you
want to say something, or was that it?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That was it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine.
Okay. Everyone understand the motion on the floor? Yes, Mr.
Ochs.
MR. OCHS: Commissioner, we're asking for two authorizations.
One is to proceed with the tidal flushing permit, and also Mr.
McAlpin asked for authorization to apply for an additional one-year
extension while we go through this application process.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That is your motion?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That is the motion, yep.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's my second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you for clarifying that.
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Any further discussion, Commissioners?
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. That is a 5-0.
MR. McALPIN: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The next one's going to take a
while.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay . You're right about that. Maybe--
shall we -- oh, and the one after that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We've got a lot of people who've
been waiting here all morning. I'd be willing to take a late lunch in
order to proceed with it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: If it's okay with the other
. .
commISSIoners.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I do -- okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And I have a suggestion that might
shorten it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, okay. Okay, very good.
Item #1 OC
RECOMMEND APPROVAL FROM THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS TO INSTALL NAVIGATIONAL MARKERS
IN OUTER CLAM BAY FOR USACE PERMIT COMPLIANCE
AND RECOMMENDATION TO MOVE FORWARD WITH
PERMITTING AND INSTALLATION - MOTION TO TABLE
ITEM UNTIL AFTER LUNCH BREAK - CONSENSUS;
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May 26, 2009
MOTION TO TABLE ITEM UNTIL THE JUNE 9, BCC
MEETING ALLOWING PARTIES INVOLVED THE
OPPORTUNITY TO REACH AN AGREEMENT - APPROVED
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So then we will go on to 10C. And I need
to --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'm going to hold you to 15
minutes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay, okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I have to have my secretary let some
people know. I've got a meeting, would you believe, a meeting at
noon, unless you shorten it to noon.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We can proceed -- we can proceed
without you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, that's good. Yes, you can, as a
matter of fact.
Okay. Let's move on to 10C.
MR.OCHS: Madam Chair, if I could, for the record, identify
1 DC. It's to recommend approval from the Board of County
Commissioners to install navigational markers in outer Clam Bay for
United States Army Corps of Engineer permit compliance and
recommendation to move forward with permitting and installation.
And Mr. McAlpin is available to present after Commissioner
Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Let me just make some
introductory remarks. I don't have a solution to this problem. We've
been fighting this issue of navigation in Clam Bay and the rights of the
Seagate residents and the concerns of the Pelican Bay residents and
others. We've been fighting this for years. Somehow we have to
reach an agreement that makes everyone reasonably happy.
We saw earlier today how a compromise really produced some
very, very good results, and I hope we can -- we can achieve that
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May 26, 2009
today with this issue.
All of -- our advisory -- Clam Bay Advisory Committee, our
staff, the Naples City Council, and many other people, have agreed
that -- that navigational markers should be installed here. The Coast
Guard has specified that they be Coast Guard-approved navigational
markers.
No matter what we do with this issue today, if we were to
approve it as it is written or with -- if we were to disapprove it, we are
still facing the same dilemma and the same fight between the people
who believe they have navigational rights in the bay and the people
who don't want to have navigation in the bay.
And I have had the opportunity over the weekend to talk about
some potential solutions to that, and we have representatives from
Seagate, Dr. Wu is here from Seagate Homeowners Association, and I
think Pelican Bay Foundation representatives are here and others from
Pelican Bay who represent other organizations and interests.
So here's -- here's what I have been led to believe by people on
both sides of this issue, that if you could have a couple of weeks to sit
down and talk about the issue of putting in the markers and agreeing
upon a controlled depth in Clam Bay that would be suitable for
guaranteeing the Seagate residents with access from their property to
Clam Pass, that it might be possible to reach an agreement like that.
The key is water depth. The city council is supportive of the
navigational markers, and so is our own staff and our own advisory
committee. But everybody talks about terms like level of service, the
same level of service that the Seagate residents currently enjoy. What
does that mean? We don't know.
So even if the navigational markers go in, which would make
Seagate people happy, you still aren't assured of ever being able to
navigate the water because if it shoals in, you don't have the right to
clean it out without a challenge.
So it appears to me that if you can agree upon a minimum
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May 26, 2009
controllable depth from Seagate to the pass at mean low water, and it
-- that agreement is sufficient to give people in Pelican Bay and others
assurances that we're not going to turn Clam Bay into a large vessel
port, then that solves it forever. We don't have the lawsuits. We don't
have the fighting that has been going on forever and ever.
Anything short of that, anything short of deciding upon a
navigable depth of water leaves us with the same dilemma we've got
right now and we'll have it forever.
So I'm suggesting if the people believe that they can reach
agreement on this issue, that I would be willing to make a motion to
table it for two weeks to give them a chance to do a survey of the
water depth now, agree upon what is necessary to provide navigation
for the people in Seagate, and then see where it leads us. If we cannot
-- if they cannot reach an agreement, we come back with the same
item for consideration at the next -- next meeting.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: How do we find out if they agree to that?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We could ask, I guess, the two
largest organizations represented here today if they would be willing
to proceed on that basis, and that would be the Pelican Bay
Foundation and the Seagate Homeowners Association. There are
others who are going to object to it violently, and we know that.
So we can -- you could either let them speak and express their
objections to this, and then at the end of that time, we could vote on
the motion either to table this item until they have a chance to talk, or
if it is clear that there's no chance of compromise, we can just take up
this item right now or after the speakers have had a chance to be
heard.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So then we should call up the two
speakers that would represent those communities first and see if they
would be willing to wait two weeks, meet with each other, and see if
they can't form a compromise on the depth of this --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
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May 26, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- channel.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Of course, I would depend heavily
upon the Clam Bay Advisory Committee to provide us guidance as to
how we proceed along those lines. So I would like their involvement
in that process.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So would that be -- okay, Mr.
Carroll.
MR. CARROLL: Commissioner Coyle, I'd like to dialogue a
little bit on your suggestion.
I took a boat trip here a couple months ago, started at the Seagate
wall, and I wasn't driving, somebody else was. And as we went down
the -- through Clam Bay, I was able to take the oar and put it down in
there and, you know, a depth was 3 or 4 feet, something like that.
As we progressed down to the narrowing portion which
eventually ended up at Clam Pass, it, of course, became a lot
narrower. You could see where, if you drifted off of the path, you
were going to run aground. But we were able to do that. When we
actually got closer to the pass, it was even deeper.
So I guess what I'm saying -- I recognize it was probably high
tide. But in my conversation with Seagate people, it seems to me that
they understand this whole depth situation very well. They know they
can go out at high tide, come back at high tide, and if they don't,
they're going to get in trouble. And I've heard many of them speak to
that.
And so I guess what I'm saying is, as I visualize this thing, if --
and I've gone in this boat back into the Seagate channels there, and
you see the boats they have. They're 16 feet long to 20 feet long.
They're small boats and they've got a motor on the back that, you
know, you can pull back and forth.
I see no sign of big motor vessels at all. I don't -- in the course of
our meetings, I've got to meet and talk to quite a few Seagate people,
and, you know, as far as I can see, they're pretty nice people. They're
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May 26, 2009
not two-headed monsters out there. They're just like we are.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I hate to interrupt you, sir, but would you
be willing to wait a couple weeks and work together? Is that--
MR. CARROLL: If you feel it's necessary. I was just going to
conclude by saying, I don't think it's necessary. I think if you're going
to go idle speed, no wake, they know the situation, why not just go
ahead and put these markers in and be done with it?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Mr. Carroll.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: If I could explain very briefly why
it makes some sense to do that now, is that -- is that it is entirely likely
that Pelican Bay Foundation is going to file suit and delay that
process. We might be delayed for years before we ever put in the
markers.
So one of the benefits is to get rid of the lawsuit, get agreement
on these things. Another thing is, what happens when this pass silts
in? Are we going to permit the situation to occur where the Seagate
residents are prohibited from access to open water? I don't think we
want to do that.
So -- and how would we -- if we don't have an agreement about
the right to dredge to a certain depth, how are they ever going to get
that problem solved? They can be held up in court for years before
they could get the chance to dredge out a small portion just a foot or
two feet to let them have access.
Unless we agree on a minimum controllable depth, this problem
will never be solved and people will be subject to being held hostage
by the courts forever, and nobody needs that, and that's the only
reason for proceeding.
This is the way to finally decide whether we're going to be able
to work together as a community or we're going to continue to fight
forever. And it's the only way to do it, I think, and I think it's worth
two weeks to give people a chance to reach some sort of compromise
on this. And if that doesn't work, we'll move ahead as you suggest and
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May 26, 2009
just -- you know, just do it because it's here for our vote today. I
would be willing to bet that there is a majority of commissioners who
will approve this right now.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle, what two
representatives would you --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Mr. Hoppensteadt, do you or Mr.
Y ovanovich want to address your level of interest in doing this?
MR. YOV ANOVICH: It's still good aft- -- good morning,
actually. For the record, Rich Y ovanovich on behalf of the
foundation.
The foundation has always said that we're not interested in
hurting the residents of Seagate and their current use of Clam Bay and
Clam Pass. So we would welcome the opportunity to sit down, and
that's all we've ever been asking for is, with the county to be, I guess,
the mediator or arbitrator, whatever word you want to use, to help us
reach consensus on how we can protect the residents of Seagate and
also the concerns about the estuary and the environment that the
residents of Pelican Bay have through the Pelican Bay Foundation.
So the foundation would welcome the two-week opportunity to
try to sit down and reach an agreement on this issue. And so the
answer is, yes, we would welcome a two-week tabling while we could
sit down and discuss it.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I want to make sure that this
is just not a delaying tactic. The fundamental elements of this
potential compromise that I've just raised are reasonable to you or
unreasonable?
MR. YOV ANOVICH: Well, they're -- yes, we think they're
reasonable.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. YOV ANOVICH: We think we can hopefully get there if
both sides are willing to sit down and give a little.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay, all right. Thank you.
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May 26, 2009
Dr. Wu?
DR. WU: Hi. For the record, Ernest Wu, president of the
Seagate Property Owners Association.
I would just address three things. Two of the things you've
already mentioned, basically markers and controlling depth. The
marker issue -- or let me address this whole compromise.
Of course, we are very pro compromise to designate a controlling
depth all the way from the pass all the way down to Seagate canals in
order to give some type of assurance to Pelican Bay that there will not
be large craft vessels coming through that estuary and putting a solid
number of a minimum depth. I think it's a great idea.
The only -- I would say, I would absolutely go for that as long as
the marker -- U. S. Coast Guard-approved lateral channel markers do
go in. That issue has been dragged so long. It's -- we've had many
talks with Pelican Bay. I've had many personal emails and phone
conversations with Mr. Steve Feldhaus, who is the foundation
secretary. We both agree -- there are a lot of issues we can work
together on. We both are very interested in water quality, we both
have interests in preserving mangroves. We both want to keep that
estuary pristine, but we have to have a balance.
And the problem is, whenever we have conversations, the two
percent goes to talking about how we can work together, and then the
other 98 percent gets steamrolled by talking about navigational
markers, and that is the huge elephant that is sitting in the room that is
blocking any type of potential working as neighbors, working for
mutual benefit.
I would actually suggest this: One, to vote on the agenda item
you have in here, number 10C to approve the markers, and add a
corollary that a controlling depth will be assessed in order to assure
Pelican Bay that -- you know, I believe normal navigational depth is 5
feet. Obviously, will be -- and Mr. Carroll has mentioned it's usually,
in his observation, somewhere between 3 to 4 feet.
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May 26, 2009
So if it's somewhere between 3 and 5 feet, I think that may solve
everyone's issue about whether there can be reasonable, non-large boat
navigation in there while preserving the safety and navigational
sanctity of Seagate by having the marker issue voted and approved on.
But yes, we do really -- are interested in making -- working
together and compromising.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. If you want us to proceed
and vote on the markers today, there is no compromise, okay. We will
be faced with a lawsuit, I believe, and possibly an injunction, which
means you probably won't get to markers until that is decided in court.
That's the purpose of a compromise is if -- some people give up
things, some people don't. Doesn't mean you have to give up the
markers. I'm saying, if you ask us to approve the markers today, it's a
done deal; and the other side might say, well, gee, you know, we're
not getting anything out of this deal so we're not going to agree on the
depth.
So it's either going to be a discussion and a willingness to
compromise to get something both of you want, or we can go ahead
and vote on this.
DR. WU: Right. Fear of lawsuits, anything can be tied down
with a fear of lawsuit. I don't know, maybe the county attorney could
comment on this more. But if the markers go in and Pelican Bay
decides to sue, that's a possibility. If the markers don't go in, Seagate
could decide to sue. That's another possibility . We can't just have fear
of lawsuits dictate what policy is or else we'd never get anything done.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Mr. Wu, the question was, would Seagate
people be willing to come to the compromise table over the next two
weeks and work with the other group to see if they can come up with a
compromise or no? Isn't that the question, Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's the question, that's the
question.
DR. WU: I would say yes with the caveat with the marker --
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May 26, 2009
markers are installed.
MR. KLATZKOW: No. There's no caveats, sir. The question--
because you want to -- you want a win-win solution here, okay. The
whole purpose --
DR. WU: I'm sorry. I apologize. I retract that.
MR. KLATZKOW: The whole purpose ofa compromise is both
sides give a little to get.
DR. WU: I'm sorry. I'll say the markers is our number-one
issue. It's the number-one issue we've been attacked on the most and
it's the number-one issue that has been -- gone on the longest.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Then--
DR. WU: So yes, I hate to say that I'm antigovernment.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I remove my suggestion.
DR. WU: The marker issue is number one.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Mr. Wu, he has already removed his
suggestion. Now that's done.
DR. WU: Thank you for your time.
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, ma'am?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
MR. OCHS: If we could get one clarification. Are they opposed
to -- let me rephrase that. Do they want a certain kind of marker, or
would they be willing to live with a -- some level of compromise as
long as their channel markers --
DR. WU: I think that was already discussed with the various
committees, Clam Bay Advisory Committee and Coastal Advisory
Committee.
MR.OCHS: I understand. The question is, would you be
willing, if markers are still part of the discussion, to sit at the table and
work towards a compromise?
DR. WU: We're always willing to sit, but I believe this has been
compromised down from 28 pole markers, then it was compromised
down to 11 pole markers, now it's been compromised down to three
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May 26, 2009
pole markers and eight buoys. The compromises have been made.
People have done their homework. So -- and we've been at the table
for that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Mr. Wu.
DR. WU: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We're not going anyplace. This is a very
strange proceeding and isn't according to Hoyle, but I guess --
DR. WU: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: What we will do is -- now we've got how
many speakers, Sue?
MS. FILSON: Fourteen.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Fourteen speakers. I'm sure that we've
had a few of them already up here.
MS. FILSON: Mr. Carroll wasn't registered, Mr. Wu was, and
Rich Y ovanovich was. So that leaves you with 12.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, yes. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I just want to make it very clear
that the Department of Army Corps of Engineers has stated that the
markers must meet U.S. Coast Guard standards for signs, which is the
lateral buoyed system. And I believe that there has been work
between Pelican Bay and the Seagate people to come up with a
buoyed system or markings of buoys that are low profile and that they
have to meet the regulations of the lateral buoyed system that we use
here in the United States. And you can find that under Chapman's
Piloting and Seamanship and Boat Handling Publication. So I'm not
sure where we're going with this.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We're going to have a hearing.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes. And that was your comment for
this?
Now, Commissioners, did you want to go to lunch now and give
us a cooling off period here and come back in one hour, and then we'll
finish this item?
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay by me.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I think that that's a good idea.
MR.OCHS: Madam Chair, if I may again.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, sir.
MR.OCHS: Just a point of order. You have a one o'clock time
certain scheduled, so I guess your options are to push that back and
finish this or table this until after your one o'clock time certain and
then come back to this item. It's whatever the board's preference is at
this point.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah. What is our one o'clock time
certain? I can't even remember what the subject is.
MR. KLATZKOW: McDonald's.
MR.OCHS: That's the item having to do with the code
inspections.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, that's going to be another one with a
lot of speakers.
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I think we should finish this, and then
we'll go on to the one o'clock.
Yes, Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: A suggestion to the audience
that, why don't you go to lunch together? Who knows, you might
come up to an agreement. And whoever makes the biggest concession
picks up the bill.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. We'll be back here at 1: 10.
Thank you.
(A luncheon recess was had.)
MR. OCHS: Ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats.
Madam Chair, you have a live mike.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you very much.
Well, welcome back. I hope everybody's had a nice lunch.
And, Gary, did you have something you wanted to say to us?
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May 26, 2009
Because we're on item number 1 DC, folks.
MR. McALPIN: Thank you, Commissioner. There's been some
discussion during lunchtime, and the Seagate representatives have
reconsidered their position. And at this point in time I'd like Ernest
Wu to come up and just talk about that for a minute, if you would,
please.
DR. WU: Thank you very much. My apologies for needing to
come up here again.
I've had a time -- I took your advice, Mr. Coletta, and sat down
and talked things over calmly, let the emotions cool down a bit, put
some food in my stomach, and able to think clearly.
I was put on the spot a little bit, and I -- I compromised my words
of working together and compromising, and I think for the better good
of Seagate and Seagate residents, my impatience should not override
that needs for compromise.
And I want to change what I've said before, and I want to full
heartedly support the changes that Commissioner Coyle has made in
delaying the marker vote for two weeks so that we may come up with
a definitive depth from the pass down to Seagate canals in order to
give Pelican Bay some assurance that there will be no large vessels
into that section.
And again, I apologize for trying to think I could maybe push
things along at the expense of working with the county and working
with our neighbors and, again, I fully support Mr. Coyle's changes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Dr. Wu.
And Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, thank you, Dr. Wu.
I wouldn't want to belabor it any further. And maybe if the board
would be supportive, I would like to ask that we provide guidance to
the acting county manager to get the stakeholders involved with the
county attorney in neutral ground, his office, I guess. If you can call
him neutral. He doesn't have any stake in this one way or the other.
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May 26, 2009
But -- and we can facilitate that discussion and hopefully move it
along and let the parties try to see what they can do with it.
That's -- I think that's all we need to do. I'm sure there are people
who want to be heard, however, who will disagree with this.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, let me ask the county attorney
about that, because we did have 12 or 14 speakers or something.
MS. FILSON: I have 16 now.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sixteen.
County Attorney, if we move this to another agenda, what about
the speakers who have signed up?
MR. KLA TZKOW: Well, it's Chair discretion, though the better
practice would be to let them speak when the matter actually gets
heard, which would be two weeks from now.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, thank you.
And Commissioner Coy Ie, I don't know if you need a motion to
continue this to another meeting after -- after these groups have met. I
don't know quite how to do that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I think it probably would be
appropriate, because if they're unable to reach an agreement, we'll go
back to the same executive summary and--
MR. KLA TZKOW: You've got to do it by motion two weeks
from now so we have a day certain.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. So I'll make a motion then
to table this until the next regularly scheduled Board of County
Commissioners' meeting.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR.OCHS: Madam Chairman, if I may, just for clarification.
Commissioner Coyle, when you say stakeholders, do you include a
representative from your Clam Bay Advisory Committee?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Oh, absolutely. I think the
chairman of the Clam Bay Advisory Committee would be an excellent
addition to that, and then we have the other stakeholders involved, and
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May 26, 2009
I think --
MR.OCHS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- I think it's important that we
recognize that there are other stakeholders than just the foundation and
Seagate.
MR.OCHS: And I believe that's where the chair of the Clam
Bay Advisory Committee will --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
MR.OCHS: -- provide extra value there.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: And I'm going to make this a public
meeting open to the public so there's no thoughts about any back deal
doors (sic) being made.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, yeah.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And who will handle the communication
to these people as to the date of the meeting?
MR.OCHS: My office will do that, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Very good.
MR.OCHS: With the board's permission.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's very good.
Okay. So there is a motion on the floor then.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And if I could just add to it a bit.
The staff should immediately get out there and do a quick survey of
water depth so we'll understand what they're starting with.
MR.OCHS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
I have a motion on the floor. Did I hear a second?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'll second the motion.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, it's involving (sic) into a
different animal because it was about navigational markers. Now it's
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May 26, 2009
-- now it's involving controlled depths of Clam Bay, the estuarine
Clam Bay. That presents a lot more of the stakeholders. It presents a
whole different issue, the deed restrictions of Clam Bay, or actually
even of the permit. It said there's -- will be no dredging in Clam Bay.
And I'm not going to support any kind of dredging in Clam Bay.
I mean, there's -- some people want to make this into a navigable
waterway like Wiggins Pass. It's the only estuarine system in the
urban area of Collier County and, you know, my family and I enjoy it
that way, and so do others.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: But the reason it's that way is because
we've dredged it every few years to keep it that way.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Not -- no, that's not a true
statement at all.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Clam Bay has never been
dredged.
THE AUDIENCE: Pass.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, I'm sorry, Pass. Excuse me. I've got
the two, excuse me, mixed up. Thank you. Sorry about that,
Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's all right.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I thought they were --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Clam Pass was utilized quite a
bit, but I understand that's always been dredged.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I'd just like to correct
something. It really isn't an all-new animal. It's exactly what it has
always been, an argument about the depth of a channel. It's not about
Clam Bay in total. It's about a very, very narrow and defined channel.
So it's not something that's going to affect all of Clam Bay.
And I think if we get out and we survey that area, we'll find
there's adequate water for almost the entire length currently. And if
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May 26, 2009
anything needs to be done, it will just be clear up a couple little -- little
high spots, and that's probably about it, even if that is necessary, I'm
not sure it is.
But the point is, we're asking people to negotiate, two
communities to negotiate and try to reach a mutually acceptable
decision. And why would we want to interfere in the ability of
communities to get together and negotiate to reach a decision that
would be in their best interest and thereby be in the best interest of all
of Collier County?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, you're saying that it's the
only interest of two communities when it's the interest of the
environmental community, that estuarine system. It's not Seagate and
Clam Bay or Pelican Bay's waterway. It's, like you said in the past,
it's the people's estuarine system. But when you dredge it, it is a totally
different animal.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I disagree. I think these
communities have been fighting long enough, and we need to get it
settled. It's costing us money. It's costing the taxpayers of Collier
County money, and it will cost us more money in the future if we fail
to get it resolved.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And it puts neighbors against neighbors.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes, it does.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And that's not a healthy way to live.
I think if -- hopefully they can all come up with an agreement
that they can all live with, everybody -- to compromise, that means
everybody has to give just a little bit. It doesn't mean one side win,
one side loses. There's a compromise there, and I'd love to see that
happen.
And we have two weeks in order to do that, and you're going to
have staff go out immediately and check the depths of that area, as
Commissioner Coyle suggested?
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
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May 26, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All righty.
Okay. So we have a motion on the floor.
I'm sorry. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. I just want to make sure that
I understand the motion. We had quite a discussion in regards to
dredging the inlet for just -- if it gets filled in because of a storm or to
take sand and put it on a beach. And now we're talking about water
depths of a certain depth, and if it doesn't meet those depths, then
we're talking about dredging elsewhere other than just at the mouth of
Clam Bay and the inlet there.
So I have some concerns because that's not what I think we really
need to address. What basically is on the agenda today is navigational
markers, and that's all that was brought up on this.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We're going to keep batting this
back and forth. Look, it's not about navigational markers. It's about
water depth. The argument about navigational markers has been
raised because of water depth. If you solve the water depth and you
get agreement among the parties as to water depth, then it doesn't
make any difference what kind of markers you put out there.
So it's -- but beyond that, that's not what my motion says. My
motion only says, let's delay this two weeks and give the parties an
opportunity to talk among themselves to see if they can come up with
an agreement concerning the issues that have divided these
communities for a decade or more and will continue to divide the
communities for the foreseeable future and cost us tens of thousands
of dollars, if not more, in legal expenses fighting people over this.
It has nothing to do with dredging at the present time. If they
reach an agreement that suggests dredging, they bring it to us, they
bring it to our Clam Bay Advisory Committee, they look at it and see
if it's acceptable to us.
If you don't like the dredging, then that's the time to vote against
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May 26, 2009
dredging. But give the people a chance to talk to each other and
resolve their differences on this issue, or we're going to be hearing this
every six months for the rest of our lives.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And now let me say that we have
some speakers signed up, but right now -- I don't know how this vote
is going to go. Why don't I say this: If the vote goes to giving people,
all sides of this issue, a chance to meet and possibly come up with a
solution to present to us, that it be a fair compromise and come back to
us in two weeks, the next commission meeting from this, then we --
there's no reason to hear the speakers until that meeting.
If this motion fails, then we're going to start all over again with
this subject and we're going to hear all the speakers, okay?
Okay. So we have a motion on the floor and a second. And--
are there any other points that anyone wants to make?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Who was the second?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I was the second.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. That's a 3-2 vote. That's all we
need, right?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So we'll bring this back in two
weeks.
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Very good.
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Item #10J
THAT THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PROVIDE
STAFF GUIDANCE AS TO WHETHER TO IMPLEMENT A
MANDATORY CODE INSPECTION OF VACANT AND
FORECLOSED RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES IN THE
UNINCORPORATED AREA OF COLLIER COUNTY PRIOR TO
SALE AND WHETHER THE PROGRAM SHOULD
INCORPORATE A CERTIFICATE OF USE CERTIFICATION TO
DOCUMENT AND DISCLOSE TO THE POTENTIAL BUYER
THE EXTENT TO WHICH THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY (I.E.
SINGLE-F AMIL Y, CONDOMINIUM, TOWNHOUSE, OR
DUPLEX) COMPLIES WITH ALL APPLICABLE BUILDING
AND ZONING CODES, AND IN CONSIDERING THIS
PROPOSAL THAT THE BOARD PROVIDE ANY ADDITIONAL
GUIDANCE WHETHER TO IMPLEMENT A VOLUNTARY OR
MANDATORY CODE INSPECTION OF RESIDENTIAL
PROPERTIES PRIOR TO SALE - MOTION TO BRING BACK
AT THE JUNE 23~ 2009 BCC MEETING - APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, your next item is a time-certain item
for one p.m. It's Item 10J, and that's that the Board of County
Commissioners provide staff guidance as to whether to implement a
mandatory code inspection of vacant and foreclosed residential
properties in the unincorporated area of Collier County prior to sale
and whether the program should incorporate a certificate of use
certification to document and disclose to the potential buyer the extent
to which the residential property complies with all applicable building
and zoning codes, and in considering this proposal, that the board
provide any additional guidance whether to implement a voluntary or
mandatory code inspection of residential properties prior to sale.
And your community development administrator -- excuse me --
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environmental services administrator, Joe Schmitt, will kick this off.
MR. SCHMITT: Commissioners, good afternoon. For the
record, Joe Schmitt, administrator of community
development/environmental services.
Quickly, I'm here today to seek guidance as to whether to
implement a mandatory or volunteer (sic) code inspection.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Joe, may I interrupt you for one second.
MR. SCHMITT: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We have 19 speakers registered to speak.
And at this time we will not accept any more, so I just wanted to
announce that right now.
Thank you. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
MR. SCHMITT: As the manager said, we're here today to get
your guidance on whether to implement a code inspection program,
and what I note in the executive summary is vacant and foreclosed
properties, and with that issue there, develop some kind of a certificate
of use program prior to the sale.
As you well know, foreclosures continue to mount in Collier
County, and staff is here today at the request of several constituents,
many of whom you're going to hear from today who are going to
relate their horror stories in dealing with foreclosed properties that
have numerous building and code violations, predominantly due to
unpermitted structures, additions, wiring, plumbing, construction and
conversion of garages, porches, patios, lanais, and basically
construction where nothing was either certified or -- either built to the
Florida Building Code.
Currently when problems are reported, usually after the transfer
of sale, it involves the code enforcement department, and code
enforcement has no options but to open a case and initiate an
investigation to determine the extent of the violation and often results
in code violations and follow-on hearings either through the Code
Enforcement Board or through the special magistrate.
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May 26, 2009
The purpose of the program, as we're being asked to look at, was
to look at an inspection program to document and disclose to any
potential buyer the extent to which residential properties comply with
all applicable building codes and zoning codes.
The inspection process could either be done by a private sector
firm or through the county staff, depending on how you decide to
direct us to proceed if, in fact, you direct us to proceed.
And I'll be brief. Just basically the overall objectives of the
program would report and concentrate specifically on the number of
structures permitted on the property, has any unpermitted additions
been added to the residence, has any nonliving space been converted
to living space without a permit, has electrical and plumbing been
added without a permit, do the residence all necessary structures meet
requirement -- required setbacks and those -- as defined in the Land
Development Code, and are there any open permits without a final
inspection.
Included in your executive summary at Attachment A was
backup materials submitted by HOME, Housing Opportunities Made
for Everyone, Incorporated, and also at Attachment B, our comments
and suggestions from NABOR, Naples Area Board of Realtors.
In addition, in your executive summary, I highlight some of the
other requests that NABOR identified, if you choose to discuss those,
and that would be, if they go to a volunteer program dealing with
unpermitted work and the charging of any fees if they were to come in
for any type of permitted activity or permitting by affidavit, and then,
of course, issues dealing with impact fees.
I know you have a lot of speakers. It's really the speakers who
introduced this to the county manager's staff and to my staff, and I'm
here nothing more as the messenger to throw this idea out to you all
and ask for guidance as to whether we should proceed with some type
of program.
So subject to any questions you have of me specifically, I think
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May 26, 2009
it's best we just go right into the public speakers.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you very much. And will you
introduce our speakers, please.
MS. FILSON: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Call them now.
MS. FILSON: Our first speaker is Tom Lykos. He'll be followed
by John Barlow.
MR. L YKOS: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Thank you for
your time today. I'm Tom Lykos, president of the Lykos Group. I'm
here in support of mandatory inspections for foreclosed and
abandoned homes.
My first point is that Diane Flagg of code enforcement stated that
50 percent of cases at code enforcement involved owners who have
purchased homes with unpermitted changes to structure and were
unaware of that work. Obviously, volunteer inspections don't work.
Number two, home inspectors are not licensed as a trade locally
or by the state. Home information is an unregulated industry. Some
home inspectors may not be qualified to perform the inspections in
question.
Private home inspectors would be beholden to Realtors or sellers
if private industry was allowed to conduct these inspections. What I
mean by that is, if you're a Realtor and you represent several banks
and you had your favorite home inspector, the home inspector might
be inclined to write reports that are in favor of the existing conditions
rather than be a true objective report of the existing conditions of that
home.
Therefore, I recommend that those inspections be done either by
code enforcement or by a building inspector from CDES.
Number five, I would make a recommendation that Mr. Schmitt
creates a task force of stakeholders to create guidelines for minimum
standards of inspection, fees, and time lines so that the inspections
could occur, reports could be written, without delaying the transaction
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May 26, 2009
of the sale of a property.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is John Barlow. He'll be
followed by Gina Downs. And Gina has two people ceding their time
to her. They are Jim Burke and Doug Fee.
MR. BARLOW: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I appreciate
this opportunity to come before you. For the record, my name is John
Barlow. I'm here today to support mandatory code enforcement
inspections for foreclosed homes.
Foreclosures in Collier County are a relatively new thing to any
-- of any magnitude. We've historically had very few, 3- to 500 prior
to the current dilemma.
And from my experience, we have bought 13 homes at HOME.
And the purpose of those purchases were to rehab them and sell them
to income-qualified families, which are historic- -- primarily first-time
homebuyers.
Eleven of the 13 houses have illegal additions, converted
garages, and/or additional bathrooms installed. These additions were
not done to code and represent a safety and health issue for the
homeowner.
Realty Trac projects that Collier County will have 18,000
foreclosed homes in 2010. With the projection, we are running about
20 percent above last year year-to-date, and we had almost 8,000 last
year foreclosed homes.
HOME has purchased 13 homes averaging $63,000 each, well
over 50, $60 a square foot, prices I'd never expected to see in Collier
County in my entire life. Although these homes are affordable to
many of our working families today, many of them are unsafe and
unhealthy to live in, thus making these homes dangerous.
I just think a picture might be worth a thousand words here to go
over that, so I'll show you just a few items that we've experienced, and
I didn't cull these out to find the worst of the worst or the best of the
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worst. But fundamentally, this was an addition behind the original
structure that contained a bedroom, a bathroom, and kitchen all on a
slab, and the electrical, as you can see, was put together
inappropriately in my judgment.
Wiring -- this is actually a garage where you have a sink and a
bathroom, outdoor shower outside the house, overloaded breaker
boxes. And we have experienced where you could put your hand on
the breaker box and feel them warm. And I'm not an electrician, so I
can't tell you that's indicative of everything, but I don't think that's
necessarily safe.
Our recommendation is to address foreclosed houses only.
Mandatory abatement of them for bank-owned properties. They're
distant, they're out of the state, they don't have the love of this
community that we do. And when we find those, abate those, revise
the price if necessary, and incorporate it into the original mortgage.
Thank you for your time.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Gina Downs, and I believe
she gets nine minutes.
MS. DOWNS: I don't need nine minutes. I talk fast.
MS. FILSON: She'll be followed by Fire ChiefOrly Stolts.
MS. DOWNS: Good afternoon. Gina Downs, and I'm on the
board with HOME.
In 2007, National Fire Protection Association estimated half a
million fires in the U.S. You see the numbers with the resulting
deaths and injuries, over a 100 billion in property damage. That same
organization broke it down into fires of an electrical nature. I circled
the first four causes, which account for over 75 percent of the
electrical fires.
A different study by a different group, Consumer Protection, said
of electrical fires, 82 percent were caused by improper alterations,
improper use, and inadequate capacity. All conditions prevalent in
foreclosed homes, at least the hundred or so that we've previewed.
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May 26, 2009
An existing ongoing health and safety issue is clearly and
unambiguously brought before you today. It must not be ignored. As
is buyer beware, I expect to hear those terms from sellers who stand to
profit from the sale of an unsafe home. What I expect to hear from
government is that egregious health and safety issues will be
addressed, that steps will be taken to make neighborhoods safer by
avoiding blight. With these actions, property values countywide will
be preserved as best they can be in these trying times.
As John mentioned, Realty Trac is saying 18,000 foreclosures
out of 157,000 households in Collier County. More than 11 percent of
our homes will be in foreclosure by next year.
This charts the homes that are sold monthly which are
foreclosures. Several hundred are being sold. The trend is going up,
not going down. That's thousands of health and safety problems
passed along either to unsuspecting first-time buyers or out-of-state
flippers with no concern for the health and safety of our
neighborhoods.
To be sure, not all 18,000 will have health and safety issues, but
the thousands that do pose a risk to residents of this county and should
not be ignored.
Here's another monthly measure. The blue line on this chart is
the most relevant. It's a measure of pre-foreclosures or homes in
default. Takes almost a year to go from default to foreclosure.
Just in the last six months, Collier County has had over 5,000
homes in various stages of default. More than two-thirds will come on
as foreclosures.
This pie chart is not monthly. It's foreclosure status distributions.
The large majority are still in the default stage. Now, not all 58
percent will come to market. Over two-thirds will.
Our unemployment rate is half a percentage higher than the
national unemployment rate. It stands to reason we will have a higher
number of foreclosures than that two-thirds predicted.
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Collier County has a nightmare of a problem, and it's a growing
problem. We have a clear and blatant health and safety issue with
foreclosed properties. The number of foreclosed properties will
increasingly come to the marketplace.
The county attorney has concerns with singling out foreclosed
properties. It's been done and addressed in other counties and in other
states. It's doable if you want it to be.
In your packet I included several other charts. This is the end of
my slides, but there are other charts available for you concerning
comps and data about the local foreclosure market.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Fire ChiefOrly Stolts. He'll
be followed by Russel Budd.
CHIEF STOL TS: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Acting Fire
Chief Orly Stolts, North Naples Fire.
I want to first of all thank Gina and her group. She came to me
about a month ago and told me about this program, what her group
what doing. I think it's just fantastic what this group is doing, buying
these homes and putting them back together again and putting them
out there in the market to make them affordable homes for poor folks.
When she explained to me some of the issues that you were
having, it caught my ear right away; because a lot of what she was
talking about, electrical wiring and things being built differently than
when it was originally designed, it concerned me quite a bit.
I know that it affects our fire department when somebody goes in
and does some of their own personal wiring and rearranges things and
makes garages into bedrooms that's not really designed that way from
the beginning.
I do know that our fire prevention bureau and inspection bureau
at North Naples has no jurisdiction over single-family homes. We
don't go in there to do inspections. We do have jurisdiction over
commercial and multifamily residential properties.o
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Our inspectors are quite busy doing that. Really wouldn't have
time to do residential homes; however, if we took our residential or
our multifamily residential and our commercial buildings and made
them voluntary inspections, I'm not so sure our fire prevention bureau
would be so busy today. I don't think people would be calling us up to
come in and inspect their commercial property. That's why it's not
voluntary for them.
I think it's -- the system that we've had for single-family homes
has been voluntary for many years. I don't remember the last time that
I called up the code enforcement people and told them to come over to
my house for a voluntary inspection. I don't think there's too many
people doing that. I don't have any problems, by the way.
I would really like to see us support this. I'm glad it's coming
forward to the board to take a look at. I know for a fact there are a lot
of handymen out there that like to do work on their own homes, and
I'm not so sure that they do them to code. When they don't do them to
code it affects our business and what we do.
I know the safety of the firefighters have a lot to do with a
structure fire. And the less structure fires we can go to, the safer it's
going to be for our people. So I thank you for your time.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Russell Budd. He'll be
followed by Omar Tianga.
MR. BUDD: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Thank you for
the opportunity to address you.
I've been a general contractor in Collier County for 28 years. I'm
also a licensed real estate broker, and I'm currently president of
HOME, the organization founded by Mr. Barlow.
I do have a day job, but Mr. Barlow coerced me into helping him
for that not-for-profit, and it's in that effort that I became aware of the
uninspected, unapproved modifications that are commonly done in
foreclosed homes.
I can't help but think that you've got to keep in mind, be careful
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what you ask for because you just may get it. And unfortunately right
now I've got all the government in my life that I've paid for with taxes,
which also happens to be more government than I can afford.
So I have a great hesitation to come forward and request more
government because it's exactly what I don't want and don't need, but I
think there's an issue of life safety here that cannot be ignored.
And I think that in whatever decision you consider that you look
at it primarily in view of life safety. I think that should be the driving
motivation if any action is taken on your part.
Frankly, I'm not concerned with cosmetic issues. I'm not so
concerned with zoning issues. The house -- any example house has got
to be pretty close to being at the right place on the lot. It's been there
for a lot of years. I wouldn't get all wrapped up in setbacks. And,
quite frankly, personally for me, if there was a storage shed or
something and technically not in compliance, let's not get carried
away.
And I don't know what discretion you have, but I think the issue
ought to be focused on life safety, not a bunch of peripheral issues.
And I also think that whatever action you take should not be contrived
or misinterpreted in any way as to keep development services/code
enforcement full employment act.
I also think that it shouldn't be in any way contrived as the
put-out-of-work contractors back-to-work stimulus plan. I don't think
either of those things should be any part of any motivation in any
action that you might take.
I think the sole criteria should be life safety. And I really hope
that we don't allow this initiative to be misinterpreted or overzealously
pursued by code enforcement or any other well-meaning individuals
that, in pursuit of their mandate, that this becomes in any way
intrusive, that government introduces themselves into private homes
and the lifestyles of non-transferred properties.
In summary, I would just say that this action be solely focused in
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May 26,2009
pursuit of improving life safety in Collier County.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Omar Tianga. He'll be
followed by Bob Haan.
MR. TIANGA: Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is
Omar Tianga with Integrity Electric, state certified electrical
contractor working together with HOME and BCB.
From experience of what we've been noticing out there in the
homes, he couldn't have said it any better, is the life safety for
everybody. Every house they're walking into, nine out of ten houses,
whoever were to buy that house, if it didn't go through HOME, Inc.,
would be purchasing a home that is very unsafe for them, and they
wouldn't know anything about it until they're actually in the home,
which obviously would bring a lot of cost to them, and if they didn't
have the money to put up -- obviously they're buying homes that are in
the lower ranges, low-income homes, and they're not going to have
money to bring them up to code. So that would force them to live in
an unsafe home for them, their children, or anybody else involved in
the home. So I think that's very important to look at.
Like I said, from experience not only with HOME, Inc., but any
other houses we've been going to, to bring up the homeowners, we've
been experiencing the do-it-yourself type of additions to the structure
electrically.
The main thing that I've been seeing a lot, not because I'm an
electrical contractor, but electrically, homeowners think just a couple
extension cords and some wire nuts would make everything work, and
I'm sure that most of you know that that's not the way that it works,
and we really need to be careful with that.
Thank you for your time.
MS. FILSON: Next speaker is Bob Haan. He'll be followed by
Bill Poteet.
MR. HAAN: Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is Bob
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Haan from Ace Plumbing in Naples, also a state-licensed contractor.
Some of the things that we've found plumbing-wise that literally
scares me is waste matter on the surface of the ground outside the
residences. We have found showers, lavatories, laundries, laundry
tubs, all discharging to the ground outside is in these additions that are
made to these garages.
We've also had many water heaters that were added because the
bathroom was -- run on water pipe there, illegally connected, wiring
just sitting out there, lack of temperature and pressure relief valves,
which we all know is a bomb sitting there waiting to go off.
I just can't believe that this is something that we could overlook
as a county. I live here. We all do. And it's a -- it's not that we're
looking for work either. I got to tell you I'm one of the few who are
lucky. We're busier than busy.
We're not even charging full rates to HOME. We're working with
them to do this project and these programs to get these homes turned
around and put back into the -- I'm going to say lower-income housing
to help the affordable housing in the area.
So everyone's working hard to clean these up not at a big profit,
if any. And it really, really, really needs the attention. And my
license states that I'm here for the public safety, and I feel we've got a
very, very big problem.
MS. FILSON: Next speaker is Bill Poteet. He'll be followed by
Jeff Jones.
MR. POTEET: Julie Mitchell's waiving her time for me.
MS. FILSON: Okay.
MR. POTEET: Okay. For the record, my name is Bill Poteet.
I'm the vice-president of the Naples Area Board of Realtors and the
Chairman of Government Issues Committee.
About five-and-a-half months ago Diane Flagg came to Naples
Area Board of Realtors and asked us to be involved in this process and
said we -- brought to our attention many of the problems that were
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being discussed today, and we did not ignore them. We had a
subcommittee formed and we addressed it. And the first thing I want
to do is acknowledge Diane and the superb job she's done. She's been
unbelievably good to work with us on this and try to bring this to
resolution.
The second thing I want to do is compliment John Barlow and
HOME on the things that they're doing out in the Golden Gate
community. What they've done is they've taken a private-market
solution and applied it to a community problem. And we as the Naples
Area Board of Realtors want to do the same thing. We want to take a
private-market solution and apply it to the community problem.
We're all talking about life and safety . You're going to get no
argument from our group on that. We believe in home inspections. If
you go look at any home inspection, it will list all the things that are
wrong with the house. A number of the things that we've talked about
here are not included in home inspections only because that was not
the definition of a home inspection, but that can easily be changed and
does not have to be involved with government in order to mandate.
Currently there is about 9,000 real estate transactions in Collier
County, and a great majority of these are homes under the $200,000
bracket, which are the foreclosed homes and the short sale. If you
start doing the math, at 33 percent, that's 3,000 transactions that you'd
be dealing with on a foreclosed market, and I'm just using rough
numbers. It could be 2,500, it could be, you know, 4,000. But there's
a heck of lot of them out there. Code is not set up for this, nor do they
want to be in this business. That's why they came to us to try to come
up with a solution that could leave their hands free of this thing.
One of the proposals that we came up with -- and we did look at
ordinances. She brought us about 12 different ordinances. We read
them. Some of them had jail time. Some of them had severe
penalties. And at the end of the day, we all looked at each other and
said, why? Why do we need an ordinance when we can actually
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resolve this by private-market solutions, which means we bring home
inspectors in and have them start doing the inspections for the code
infractions that she was talk about. That's the garages that have been
enclosed -- converted, that is the back porches that have been
enclosed, the fences that did not get a permit, et cetera. It just requires
them to go down to the office, get the permit information, and then go
compare it when they're out there doing the home inspection.
Now, as for home inspections, you will find that -- and there will
be a number of speakers behind me that will tell you the same thing --
that when a person buys a house, it almost always has a home
inspection. There are a few exceptions, and they're usually contractors
that know more than we do.
But anybody that's coming out there, especially the first-time
buyer, you -- almost 100 percent of the time gets a home inspection.
So the exposed Romex is picked up, the pipes in the back yard are
picked up.
Now, one of the things we ought to do is add a disclosure to our
sales contract that can be attached. We've asked Diane Flagg to create
this disclosure which identifies exactly what code enforcement wants,
and we will add it voluntarily to all our contracts when we go out to
do a sale.
I mean, part of this thing is we need to educate the Realtors in the
real estate community, and we need to educate the public of what's
acceptable in this county. This problem has been coming on for 30
years, but it hasn't been for the last, you know, six, eight months that
actually anybody's been talking about it.
We can solve this thing, but we don't need to have government
come and be involved in it. They can watch. And if you're wrong,
you will know right away because code enforcement, they say 50
percent of the cases are before them aren't following this. If that level
goes down, you know that we're making an impact on that.
Our board is committed to making this resolve. Now, we can
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educate through a number of different varieties. You know, we have
educational classes, we have contract classes that our legal resource
committee does, we have a magazine that we produce, we have
e-newsletter. I mean, we will get the message out to the realtors that
they need to use this, and also recommend, strongly recommend the --
they include the code enforcement portion on the inspection process,
because we're already telling them to do home inspections, and we do
it for, you know, personal reasons.
If I tell someone to get a home inspection and they don't do it and
they find a problem, my liability is greatly reduced unless I knew
about that problem in the beginning, and that's one of the things we
want to do as Realtors is protect ourselves, because in this litigious
society, the first time there's a problem on a real estate transaction,
they go back after the real estate agent that's involved in that.
We want to inspect the home inspection process to allow them to
do the things that Diane Flagg wants them to do and cover this. Now,
this means there's no dollars that are expended by Collier County to do
that. No taxpayer dollars are spent.
There is no increase in staff or responsibilities. You know, you
don't have to have this huge recordkeeping system out there and pay
for that in order to do this type of thing. It would be solved by the
private sector.
And then finally, we want this to apply to all residential
transactions and not just for the foreclosure, because that problem is
pervasive throughout the community. It's not just the foreclosed
properties. I thank you for the opportunity to speak before you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Jeff Jones. He'll be followed
by Wes Kunkle.
MR. JONES: Good afternoon. I'm Jeff Jones. I'm the chair of
the NABOR task force that was set up to review the code enforcement
issue and try to come up with a -- the best solutions for all parties
concerned.
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I also want to thank Diane Flagg, who's, along with her staff,
been tremendously helpful in helping us to understand the nature and
the scope of this problem and try to come up with a solution that
works best for everybody.
From the results of our discussion so far, it turned -- it just
appears that the word voluntary has a bad name. It has to be
mandatory, it has to have an ordinance, it has to have a county staff
and an enforcement procedure in order to be effective.
Well, that isn't true in our industry today. There's no ordinances,
there's no staff monitoring our home inspections; yet the vast majority
of all homes, including foreclosed homes, are inspected by inspectors
and there are life safety issues which are detected and noted by these
inspection reports.
We think that the -- in addition to all the structural/mechanical
aspects that are checked, we think we can easily add, through the
direction of Diane Flagg and with her cooperation, the necessary steps
to check each structure for code compliance as a part of the home
inspection process. Not a separate trip, not a separate certificate, but a
nominal additional charge to add this process into the private
inspection process that's working quite well today.
We also, as Bill noted, want to address all resales, not the 11
percent that was quoted earlier that are foreclosures. That means that
we address 11 percent by an ordinance. What about the 89 percent?
We need to address those also. Code compliance issues exist in all
structures, not just foreclosed ones.
In addition to being able to this with a private/public partnership,
there will be no county expenditures that are required to implement
this solution. We can measure the progress. If the code violation
cases don't come down, then that's an indication that the voluntary
process is not working.
We ask that you give the voluntary inspection process, backed by
44,000 Realtors whom we intend to educate and bring up to speed on
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May 26, 2009
this process, a chance before you commit significant county
expenditures to develop a mandatory process that addresses only a
small segment of the residences in our county.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Wes Kunkle. He'll be
followed by Sally Masters.
MR. KUNKLE: Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is
Wes Kunkle, and I own a real state company here in Collier County
and have been practicing real estate since the mid '80s.
This problem is not new. We have seen code infractments (sic)
since I've been in the business. Primarily garage conversions and stuff
like that. I think you -- they have been brought to light here recently
because of the crazy, you know, '05, you know, '04, the flipping of the
houses, people doing stuff.
But the private inspection works. All those slides you saw today,
most of those (sic) stuffwould be caught under a general inspection.
We are looking to, you know, have a voluntary -- let us apply what
Diane Flagg has created. It is a great piece. You know, don't overload
with government. We just don't need it, you know. Let us -- let us try.
As Bill and Jeff said, there's 44-, 4,500 Realtors out there willing
to go to work on this, because we're seeing it every day. Weare
walking away from transactions because we're seeing this. You know,
we are telling our buyers that you will be responsible for these if you
take this.
I talk to all my agents. Every one of them, I asked them, you
know, when was the last time that you had a buyer refuse to have an
inspection done, and they can't recall. I mean, we -- my company has
had 100 percent compliance on -- you know, with inspections. So
please consider having a voluntary inspection.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Sally Masters. She'll be followed by Toni Stout.
MS. MASTERS: Good afternoon. Sally Masters. I'm on the
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Naples Area Board of Realtors Board of Directors, and I want to speak
in support of a voluntary program.
I do disagree with the comment that Mr. Lykos made that home
inspectors do not catch issues. We use home inspectors on a regular
basis. They do catch code enforcement problems. They do catch
plumbing issues. They do catch electrical issues. And most us do use
home inspections on every deal that we do.
And we are in support of a voluntary program to keep
government separate from this issue and to help us all continue to do
our jobs.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Toni Stout. She'll be followed by Bobbie Dusek.
MS. STOUT: Thank you, Commissioners. My name is Toni
Stout. I'm also a director with the Naples Area Board of Realtors. I'm
also a working Realtor who sells a lot of foreclosed and short-sale
properties.
And while I do see a lot of these problems, I recommend to every
one of the buyers that they have an inspection. I don't get many
people who disagree with that unless they are an investor who knows
that they're going to tear down or gut the property and take it back to
code.
I work with a lot of banks, and the time frames with the banks are
very short. Once they decide that they're going to sell a property,
usually we have anywhere from two weeks to four weeks to close that
property. And when we do have to close that property, we have to be
ready to go, and they fine the Realtors if we're not ready to go.
I'm not sure how a process that is not voluntary would -- how
long that process would take, but it is going to be something that needs
to be done rather quickly. I do believe with the home inspectors that
I've worked with, they point out a lot of the code violations.
And I do believe that these people can be licensed or trained or
given specific information to look for and make it part of our home
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inspection.
I do support the voluntarily, add it to our disclosures that we give
the sellers. I do feel like if we just went with foreclosed properties
that we're doing the inspections on, we're picking on the banks. The
banks are taking a great hit as well, and then to have to put that money
back onto those banks is going to delay having these foreclosures even
sell.
Short sales are the same way. They should have inspections, and
so should traditional sales.
I thank you for your time.
MS. FILSON: Bobbie Dusek. She'll be followed by Charlie
Neal.
MS. DUSEK: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Bobbie
Dusek.
As a resident of Collier County, I have worn many hats, and I
still do. And one of the strongest issues with me is individual and
personal property rights. I strongly support this voluntary program. I
do not like to see the government come in and start to dictate.
And as a Realtor, I do concur with the Realtors who have stood
up here and said that these inspections that we do or that the inspectors
do are very thorough, and if they weren't, we would also be liable as
Realtors.
So I strongly urge you to give the citizens of Collier County a
chance to voluntarily come before (sic) and correct their code
violations.
I spent six years on the Code Enforcement Board; two of those
were vice-chairman. So I'm well aware of all the code infractions that
are in the county.
And I also agree that this should be open to all aspects of the
county, not just foreclosures.
Thank you very much.
MS. FILSON: Charlie Neal. He'll be followed by John --
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May 26, 2009
MR. PRETE: Prete.
MS. FILSON: Thank you.
MR. NEAL: Good afternoon. My name is Charlie Neal, and I'm
the president of the Marco Island Area Association of Realtors, and
I'm here to support also the voluntary aspect of the inspection.
We have to remember that the inspectors are hired by the buyer,
not by the seller, and we encourage every person that is going through
a transaction to have their home inspected or property, condo,
whatever it may be.
I think that's the only way to treat this thing is to make it through
the private sector, give them the information they need and the tools to
work with, and this thing will right itself. Thank you.
MS. FILSON: John Prete.
MR. PRETE: Prete.
MS. FILSON: Prete. He'll be followed by JP -- this is another
hard one -- Antonmatten.
MR. PRETE: Good afternoon. My name's John Prete, and I'm
the president of HouseMaster Home Inspection.
Weare the -- one of, if not the largest home inspection
companies in Collier County. And not only am I a business owner
and manager, I'm also a very active inspector, so I see firsthand the
problems that you're referring to in the foreclosed market here with the
as-is sales.
And I recognize the difficulties that are sometimes encountered
with the transactions between the -- for the buyers. And we
vigorously support the NABOR enforcement and county code
enforcement proposals for the private sector to help with this problem.
And we recognize the commission's efforts to protect the
homeowners, the life safe- -- life health issues, safety issues, as long
as the -- so the facts are fully disclosed to the buyers prior to the
transactions.
I'd also like to say that while your first speaker was correct in that
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home inspection is, right now, not a regulated industry, we're not all
the nonprofessionals that are just bending to the whim of the Realtor
for the sake of the almighty dollar. Many of us have very good
backgrounds in construction. I hold a certified general contractor's
license, others I know are engineers, are former architects, builders, so
we do have the education and the background.
I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that in -- January 1 st of
2010 a very stringent law will go into effect requiring the licensing of
home inspectors. And this isn't a licensing requirement where we
walk down to Horseshoe, pay our $75, and get a license. This is going
to carry very heavy requirements for insurance, educational
experience, and there will be testing also, very extensive testing.
So you'll see that the level of professionalism will come up
dramatically, I think, in the home inspection business.
And as a big fan of education, as I hold an accounting degree, a
CP A, an MBA, I'm all about education, and I would strongly
encourage that the county make coincident with this 2010 licensing a
program that would give an additional level of certification to home
inspectors to perform a proper code inspection, a checklist, work with
the code enforcement, fire departments to educate us as to what you're
looking for, what's important so that we can, you know, make a more
accurate report for the buyer and protect them.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON : Your final speaker is JP.
MR. ANTONMA TTEN: Good afternoon, and thank you, and
please excuse my voice. For the record, it's JP Antonmatten. I'm
incoming president of the Naples Area Board of Realtors, mainly
because I have no voice, but also because you've heard from
committee chairs and task force members who have been assigned to
really get in depth with this.
And I'm not going to, once again, reiterate it, but I do thank you
for the opportunity to allow us to speak today. I encourage you to
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have listened and move forward positively.
And I want to remind you that you have over 4,000 of us
community members and fellow Realtors out there that tap into pretty
much 100 percent of those transactions, and we can certainly give out
a helping hand to you.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: That was your final speaker, madam.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Henning, you wanted to ask --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Prete questions. If you'd
come up to the mike, please.
I've always watched the Home Improvement Channel, and I just
want to know if it's true. Home inspectors, you find faulty wiring,
faulty plumbing, things of that nature?
MR. PRETE: I believe we find a number of issues. Of course,
we're limited by the fact that, you know, the drywall's up and things
are under the slab. But the visual readily accessible clause is really
what guides us right now, and -- but we are very thorough with top to
bottom, in the attic, you know, right down to, you know, the
bathrooms, the garage, everything.
And we do report a number of issues, some that, you know,
might be not of -- much of a concern to a buyer that's experienced
with home remodel, has watched the channel quite a bit. But there are
certainly safety issues. And if you've ever seen a report from the
House Master, it's a very long and detailed report, pictures,
everything, and we also offer the buyers access to the House Master
website, which has a very extensive library to explain to the
homeowners why these problems are important, why we're pointing
them out in the home inspection.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What about mold?
MR. PRETE: Well, unless -- unless mold is tested or unless
there's conditions that indicate, you know, we don't -- we don't state
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something is mold without it going to a lab.
So we'll point out conditions, wet walls. We do carry moisture
meters. We also -- I think we're the only home inspection company
that has an infrared camera, so we will point out moisture intrusion
problems. Moisture, of course, is the cause of mold, and we will tell
the owners that, you know, possible conditions exist.
But as far as mold, which is also going to be a separate license
initiated in 2010, unless we've swabbed it, air sampled or otherwise,
and it's gone to a lab and they've analyzed it and produced a report, we
don't declare mold. But we can certainly point out all the conditions
that would lead to -- you know, kind of bring-the-horse-to-water, sort
of.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay, great.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Don't leave, because we have another
commissioner that has questions for you.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I appreciate you being here this
afternoon --
MR. PRETE: Thanks for having us.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: -- and stating your case.
Some of the concerns that I have is, how do you know if there
has been unpermitted building additions onto the home?
MR. PRETE: Well, there's always the obvious ones which are a
garage that is now a bedroom. You know, those are simple ones.
Taking a -- the panel off of the breaker box --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, I'm talking about, let's say,
somebody's added a lanai that was never permitted. How do you trace
that down? Do you go to the county and --
MR. PRETE: No, we don't, no, and we're not required to. And I
know -- you know, I was asking actually one of my Realtor friends
here that I know, title transfer -- bringing things up to code is not, you
know, necessary for title transfer . We often will speak with the buyer
either prior to or after the -- or during the inspection, and we make --
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we make comments about things that clue us off. There's a lanai that's
been enclosed. How come there's not a new air-conditioning vent,
you know. The load for your air-conditioner is probably not going to
support, you know, three new glass walls and air-conditioned space.
So we try to point out, again, all of the signs there might be.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, for instance, where people
have bought used homes and were told that there's an outbuilding in
the back that maybe was a garage at one time and now it's become a
guesthouse, and that's been done because there hasn't been any
permitting.
Do you go back and check on that, or do you just -- if the seller
tells you, yeah, this is a guesthouse -- or that gives somebody the
ability to go out and rent this as an income?
MR. PRETE: Well, normally -- again, normally in our --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Do you check that?
MR. PRETE: We'll check the house for everything we can as far
as everything's functioning, but as far as -- no, we do not check to see
if it was permitted. But we will discuss with the buyer and Realtor
that they may have access and they may want to look into that,
because home inspection right now does not include code
enforcement.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, see, that's the concern that I
have. And then what happens is, somebody buys one of these homes
-- and this has been going on for a number of years -- and pretty soon
they go in for a permit or something on maybe putting a sidewalk in or
whatever else, and pretty soon they find out that -- the county starts
going through things, and they find out that there's been additions to
the house, and there's been no record of permits or anything else in
regards to some of the upgrades, or what do you want to call it,
additions onto the house.
MR. PRETE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And whereby -- I was in one home
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where there was a bathroom that was installed in the garage floor.
What do you do about that?
And then the other question I have -- that's one question -- there
was a statement made that when you go in and do a home inspection,
you've got two to four weeks to get this house up to snuff or you want
to sell it in two to four weeks. How do you make the upgrades in case
you find that there's wood rotting in the roof assembly or there's
wiring problems or there's problems with the plumbing? How do you
address that in two to three weeks?
MR. PRETE: Well, to your first question, again, the home
inspection industry and reports are not set up to report code violations
or not permitted addition or remodeling; however, I would say that in
our case, our office, we have two full-time staff people that can easily
if -- again, working with the county, tell us exactly where to go. Prior
to any inspection, they can pull up information about permits that are
either open, permits that were never -- you know, never requested, and
we can say, there was an outbuilding. Was there a permit? We have
the staff and the capability to research that and provide something to
the buyer.
Also, again, verbally. We try to speak to the buyer at some point,
either before or after, during the inspection process, about causes of
concern that we can't report on the home inspection report.
As a simple example, rats in an attic. I know it's not a code issue,
but, you know, we can't put it on the report but we do verbally
mention it, and then they can pursue that from there.
With regard to repairs, I'm not sure how quick we -- I mean,
people can do a lot of work in a short period of time. All we can do is
report the problems with pictures, with an explanation, tell them what
might need to be done in order to rectify the problem. But, you know,
if they want to do it in two weeks, two months, that's kind of out of
our hands unfortunately.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: How come if -- a question I havea
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is, if the Board of Realtors realized that this was an ongoing problem,
why didn't you take the initiative prior to code enforcement getting
involved in this issue whereby you took this on as an initiative to get it
taken care of, let's say, ten or 15 years ago?
Because a lot of people, a lot of communities that I've lived in
have a mandatory inspection. And if there were some drawbacks,
there has -- those have to be brought up to code before it can be put on
the market by the -- by the seller. The seller is responsible for this.
MR. PRETE: I agree.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And I'm concerned that we're not
touching on all the issues, because you said that you don't look at -- if
there's been unpermitted changes in the -- in the building, whether it's
an outbuilding, and then people are led to believe that they can use an
outbuilding or a garage. Because this has been going on that they can
use the garage, and nothing's been done about this in prior years until
-- once we found out just how bad this problem is.
And I'm just hoping that -- I don't understand why there wasn't an
initiative done by NABOR to get this addressed before it became a
problem to this magnitude.
MR. PRETE: I can't say to NABOR. I can say that the home
inspection industry and certification organizations like ASHI, NAHI,
ours maybe, and companies -- larger companies, national franchises
like House Master have government relations committees, and they do
lobby for, you know, better standards in the home inspection business.
This is one that was not -- you know, that was not pressed either
by the Realtors or home inspectors themselves or otherwise.
I agree it's a problem, and I agree with all the guests who spoke
about, you know, the safety issues. And, you know, we try to point
them out in as delicate a way as we can. But, again, we're not licensed
to do code enforcement, or at least licensed yet, and we would -- it
would be nice if we had a little more latitude in our home inspection
to speak up for -- on behalf of the buyer and say, there's something
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seriously wrong and, you know, the hot potato will be in your lap if
this property transfers title before it's rectified.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. The other question I have
here is, in the upcoming licensing that you have to obtain in 2010, as
you stated, what is going to be any different whether you're licensed
or you're unlicensed? Is there going to be anything that is going to be
in the licensed arena that is going to look at code violations, additions
to the homes that haven't been permitted?
MR. PRETE: Well, I know for a fact that the licensing will
require, as I mentioned briefly, educational requirements, experience,
a large amount of insurance liability, errors and omissions, and will
require testing. Whether that's going to be an annual, ongoing, like
NIBI does for us, or just a one-time test to get your license and then
some sort of a renewal.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: But are you going to address code
violations?
MR. PRETE: I can't answer to that.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, I think that's something that
really might be addressed.
MR. PRETE: And there might be a state-specific or local -- or
maybe a local matter. And again, you know, we have no fear of the
licensing requirement. And, again, as a big fan of, advocate of
education, I'd be more than happy to work with the county, the fire
department, whoever, to get us better educated so we can perform a
better inspection and take care of these code issues.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: What you got to do is --
MR. PRETE: As long as it's allowed.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I guess where I'm going with this
is, there has to be some type of followup with the county. If you guys
want to do this on your own, there has to be some followup with the
county to make sure that there aren't any code violations outstanding
whereby there has been added structures or something that's been
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added to the building that is not -- never had a permit, is in violation of
the code. So how are you going to address this?
MR. PRETE: Well, again, through administrative -- the
administrative support I have in the office. We can always go back to
the office after an inspection or call the office during an inspection,
and have the -- as long as we're told where we can go to, you know,
get the information, we can get online and get right into the Collier
County or, you know, whatever the system might be and look up
permits for that particular property. Any -- I know you can do it right
now, but as long as we have a system, you know, an organized
checklist of, here's where you go, check this, and we can print out
everything and attach it right to our home inspection, we'd be happy to
do that on behalf of the buyer and the Realtor and the county, or
whoever, you know, has an interest in the property.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I just don't want to continue to be
where we are today, and that is the buyer -- the buyers -- beware to the
buyer.
MR. PRETE: Right.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Because there's a lot of people that
move down here, they can't afford a new home, and we know that
those are up to snuff because they have to have a CO.
But when you buy a used home, you don't know what you're
buying. And when they tell-- when people are told, well, you can
rent this out for extra income, and they find out that -- when they go
and check with the county, it's a structure that's never even been
approved, and it maybe was an out-garage that's been turned into a
guesthouse.
So those are the concerns that I have where somebody is led to
believe that they can do something with their property, or in the case
that we saw where there's outdoor showers, the wiring is inadequate,
there's problems, whether it's mold or there's -- the roofs not in good
repair or other issues, and I think that we need to address that because
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it is a health, safety, welfare issue.
MR. PRETE: I agree with you and I applaud your efforts for
that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner Coletta has been
waiting patiently.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you, Commissioner
Henning. I really appreciate that. That was very big of you.
Yes, if I may, sir. And by the way, I would recommend your
service to any potential homebuyer out there. No, I'm serious. If you
want to know what you're dealing with as far as the roof goes, as far as
the air-conditioning goes, this is the company to be able to get ahold
of.
Now -- and I have no opposition to private enterprise coming in
to do the inspections as far as code goes if they're well-versed in it,
and you admitted the fact that you might have a little learning curve in
this whole thing for yourself to be able to go through it. It doesn't
mean at some point in time you couldn't be considered for it.
But here's the gist of the whole problem. You're working for the
buyer or the seller?
MR. PRETE: In most cases we're working on behalf of the
buyer.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Now, is this -- the buyer has to
contract with you, or is this something that's automatic where you --
you're just told to go out there and do the service?
MR. PRETE: No. The buyer is the person we have the contract
with. They sign the contract with House Master.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Now, if the buyer refuses to do
the inspection, then the Realtor would cancel the sale, correct?
MR. PRETE: Well, no.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm sorry. I got that wrong.
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MR. PRETE: I think the Realtors do a very good job of
.
encouragIng --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I know. I'm sure they do.
We've got the most ethical bunch of Realtors in the State of Florida. I
love them all, I really do.
But let's get down to the gist of the whole records. The records
that you have as far as this inspection even taking place, are they
public records?
MR. PRETE: No. They're the property buyer's.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So at some point, the county
wanted to see if the buyer had been made aware of it, there's no way to
be able to be assured of the fact that he even was versed in the
problem -- the fact that there was a problem with his given property?
MR. PRETE: Well, if you called our office, Alice would just call
up the buyer and ask if we could get permission to give you a copy of
the report.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, we would have to assume
that -- that would just add another layer of bureaucracy to the whole
thing, and I don't know how that would fly.
MR. PRETE: We function pretty quick actually.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. What happens -- I'm not
too sure. I probably should ask Bill Poteet this question.
Bill, the number of sales that are out there that you have as
Realtors, first, are all the Realtors in Collier County members of your
organization?
MR. POTEET: No.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. The other question--
MR. POTEET: Well, no, that's wrong. All the Realtors are
either a member of the Marco Island Association of Realtors or Bonita
Springs/Estero Association of Realtors or the Naples Area Board of
Realtors.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay.
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MR. POTEET: But they can't be a Realtor without being a part
of our board.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. I understand. That's
great. You have a little bit of oversight over the top of them.
What happens if the sale's a direct sale from the bank to the
consumer? How do you fit into it? You don't fit into every sale that's
out there.
MR. POTEET: I have not seen one of those occur in the last two
years.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So all the foreclosed homes
that's out there that John Barlow and the county's looking at, every one
of them goes through a Realtor?
MR. POTEET: Every one that I know of has gone through a
Realtor. These are complex transactions. They're not simple. They're
long and arduous, and for someone to just come off the street and try
to buy one by himself, it's very difficult. Can it be done? Yes, but it's
a rare exception on this site.
And the answer to Commissioner Halas' question earlier about,
you know, why the Realtors didn't bring this forward to a solution, this
problem really didn't exacerbate itself until we've had this foreclosure
issue come up with just an abundance of homes that's just thrown --
suddenly thrown on the market.
Now, one of the suggestions I would like to make -- we've been
stressing this all along -- is we want to see home inspection companies
have the ability to do these code inspections. Mrs. Flagg has said she
will set the standards out, she will let them know exactly what she
expects out of them. But if you allow them to do them, you get
coverage without government getting in it.
And if you want to require them to report to code any infractions
that they come across that are the enclosures on the patios, the garages
that are converted or, you know, the illegal fence because it doesn't
have a permit, we don't have a problem with that. We're trying to cure
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the problem. We're jus trying to keep government from being in the
middle of the real estate transaction.
Because, quite honestly, government has two speeds, slow and
slower. And real estate transactions are quick. Time kills all deals.
And if we can resolve that, then everybody would be happy and we
would have a community solution.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's a good argument, Bill.
I'm still having some problems with trying to make sure, because this
board has seen numerous times over the past, people come before us
with infractions that they said they weren't made knowledgable of it,
that it was an existing one, and they ask for forgiveness, because in
some cases it might have been 15 years old, 20 years old. They said
that, you know, possibly the county lost the records. But when they
go and they check, they find out there's no way it would have been
approved in the first place because of the way it was constructed.
But this has been an ongoing problem, everything from setbacks
to equipment that's out there in the houses, any number of things that's
been coming up as a regular issue over and over again. And it would
be great if we could come up with a solution. And whatever that
solution may be, I'm still --
MR. POTEET: We never talked about setbacks. That was never
in our discussion with Mrs. Flagg. She was talking about taking the
major items that are out there plaguing our county and trying to
resolve it. And she said she's not in this to get a fee, she's not in this to
penalize anybody. She just wants to solve the problem.
And so we came back with a solution that is private-market
driven. And believe me, when I sell a house -- actually I should say --
I don't sell houses. The term was used before caveator. The caveator
applies to commercial real estate only. It does not apply to residential.
There's a number of provisions out there in residential that protect the
buyer.
So the people in my firm do residential. I personally don't. I do
May 26, 2009
commercial. So -- the ones that are involved in this things, it's to their
best interest to make sure that the buyers are happy with what they
get. We get -- I don't know how much you get our of your referral
business, but that's bread and butter to us. And once you go out there
and irritate one person on a sale, the entire community knows that you
did something wrong.
So it's our best interest to do it right and do it right the first time.
Now, we have an organization with 4,400 members. It's a very, very
powerful organization when it wants to be. It gets things done, and it
can get things done in a relatively short period of time.
We're just asking you for the opportunity to do so and allow
county government to function without being involved in the middle
of a transaction. Again, if you want to let the home inspectors
companies do the code inspections, which we'd like to see part of the
program -- because they're a lot easier. When we first started this
process, we looked at $200 as possibly being a fee that the county
would charge. It's now up between 3- and $400, an estimate, if you
looked at your sheet. I mean, government has a tendency to increase
things. And without competition, it's not going to go down.
Home inspection business, there's a lot of competition out there.
And so we believe it will also help keep the cost of these services
down. But allow them to do it, allow them to come forward. And if
they -- you know, if they find somebody's using the garage as a
bedroom, let them report it. I don't have a problem with that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Bill, may I -- and this is my last
one. I appreciate your patience, Chairwoman Fiala.
Tell me, Bill, if you have this inspection, if the inspections could
be performed by private entities, which I'm sure could do it more
efficiently and at less cost than the county can -- I have no doubts
about that. I mean, government in itself has trouble getting in front of
itself sometimes, and made it a mandatory thing where these records
had to be turned over, would you have a problem with that?
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May 26, 2009
MR. POTEET: Do you want to turn all the records over of every
foreclosed housing transaction? I mean, you're looking at 2,000 of
them. I mean, do you want that, or do you just want to find out the
ones that have problems?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Bill, I just need to have some
way that we can be able to go back on this at some point in the future
and be able to say, this was done, this was done. That the -- all the
things were answered, everything has been covered, the issues of it.
Now, if the question is just who does the inspection, I don't have
a big problem with private people doing it. But as far as them just
filling out a form, turning it over to the buyer, and then they're done
with it, now there lies the whole problem.
MR. POTEET: In order for them to do the inspection, you can
require them to turn over any negative information they receive during
the inspection in regards to code infractions to you as part of -- a part
of their ability to perform the service, because you're licensing them to
do this.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, but then again, too, you
still want to make it voluntary where the customer can say, I don't
want to do it?
MR. POTEET: Sure.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. I'm lost at that point.
MR. POTEET: But the reality, it's there already in home
inspections. It is not mandatory, and yet we almost have 100 percent
compliance on it.
As I said, it protects everybody, the buyer, the Realtor, and even
the seller long-term on this thing by doing these things, because you
don't have these problems that haunt people later on.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
MR. POTEET: Sure.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, when I purchased my
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May 26, 2009
house 2000,2001, whatever, I went to the property appraiser and
looked at the property card, found two structures that wasn't permitted.
Guess what? It was taken care of prior to closing. But I also had a
home inspection done that that home inspector caught that I never
would have caught. It was because he was trained on electrical,
plumbing, so on and so forth. They have specialty equipment for
those items.
It just so happens, Mr. Schmitt, nowadays, it puts online each of
the permitted structures. In fact, I'm looking at one of the
commissioner's homes that -- all of the structures that were permitted
and CO'ed. So it is available online.
I'm a little concerned about growing -- well, I'm not going to say
that. I'm a little bit concerned about -- for the county to take over
things that the private industry can do today.
And how many of you have bought a junker ofa car or a lemon,
and just says, geez, if I knew this car was going to be this way, I never
would have bought it. Well, that same person when asked, they said,
no, I didn't have it inspected by a professional.
I understand the situation today, and as far as I'm concerned, the
farthest that I'm going to go is a potential mandatory inspection for
buyers of homes. We have not only code issues, health, safety, and
welfare -- I'm not talking about setbacks -- but we also have mold
issues that I think is a bigger problem, can be in Collier County.
I seen a home just recently that the air-conditioning -- where it
was abandoned, the air-conditionings were missing. Well, guess
what? We're get into rainy season. It's going to be very humid, and I
would suspect with no air-conditioning, that house is going to have
mold. I don't know anything about mold, but I do know one thing, it
causes a lot of health problems.
So again, as far as I'm going to go is, is let the private industry do
it through potential mandatory inspections for the buyer -- to require
the buyer to do so.c
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May 26, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I don't think the -- I don't think it
should be left on the buyer's shoulder. I think it should be on the
seller's shoulder. He's the gentle- -- he's the person who wants to sell
the house. And if the bank owns it, then the bank needs to step up to
the plate and make sure that the house is in good shape before it's sold.
And I believe that instead of the buyer being held accountable, it
should be the seller, whether it's the private individual or the bank.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I like the idea that was presented also that
home inspection companies should be allowed to do code enforcement
inspections as well. I didn't realize they weren't allowed to do that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: They just don't.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, is that it?
Okay. Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Diane Flagg is responsible for all
this, right? I understand the county manager proposed a new job
position recently for you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: She's coming up, slowly, but she's getting
there.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Even if we make the right decision,
whatever that is, we don't have the ability to do it?
MR. SCHMITT: No.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You don't have the staff, you don't
have the funds, neither of you. Well, I don't know. Maybe Diane has
funds. We could have her take it out of her budget but -- and you
don't have the ability to train the private groups who want to do the
inspection. I mean, you can try, but where is the money going to
come from? We're scrambling for every penny we can get here. You
don't have people to do that.
MR. SCHMITT: I've already talked to Bill about -- Bill Poteet.
And we said, if the board wanted this to go voluntary -- and
understand, this is -- we're looking for your direction. But I certainly
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May 26, 2009
would make sure that at least Bill's folks understand how they can
research the records.
Commissioner Henning was spot on, is going into the property
appraiser's property card. Unfortunately the industry doesn't have
access to that because you'd either have to go to the Property
Appraiser's Office or come over to Horseshoe, look at the property
appraiser's card -- there's a permitting history on the card, compare it
with what the records show, and you can do exactly what
Commissioner Henning did, is find out if there's any structures on the
property that were unpermitted.
That's probably the critical issue here is to determine whether any
type of addition or any type of work, was it permitted, and permitted
-- meaning permitted -- that means it was either reviewed and then
follow-on inspection and CO'ed.
And that's something we can talk to the Realtors about how to go
about doing that. Certainly the private sector can get access to those
records, and then we'll take guidance on how you want us to proceed.
But we certainly would work with the industry and to help them
understand what they need to look at.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Are you going to try to license
those inspectors?
MR. SCHMITT: No, sir. That will come as part of the change in
the building code, and my building director, Bob Dunn, probably
could clarify that. As of 20 1 0, the state is going to require a mandatory
licensing for home inspectors. It is an unregulated industry.
Home inspectors go out, they can look at the water heater and tell
you what date maybe somebody bought it, look at the faucet and tell
you if there's a leak or not. That's what we're interested in. All we're
interested in -- I think Mr. Budd was spot on as well, is looking at
health safety issues. What was put in the home, and primarily, is
anything there -- or are there any structures there that were not
permitted? And if they were not permitted, at least was the work done
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May 26, 2009
properly?
But the state is going to take -- it will be a state requirement for
licensing. And they'll come through Horseshoe Drive. Once the state
enforces the licensing, they'll come to Horseshoe Drive through the
licensing process just like any other licensed contractor.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So in the interim, you would
expect us to make a decision about letting an unlicensed and untrained
industry do a mandatory inspection for buyers?
MR. SCHMITT: Well--
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Right?
MR. SCHMITT: -- it is a disciplined industry because they
discipline themselves. I'm talking about the home inspectors. The
good companies have their own internal control as far as licensing and
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. But the reason you license
people in certain standards is you try to make them all good.
MR. SCHMITT: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. I'm real uneasy about
demanding something from the government, that is, mandatory
inspections, by people who are unregulated, and we really don't have
any authority over them at all as far as licensing is concerned, so that
causes me some difficulty.
The other thing is, I'm significantly swayed by the argument that
the government ought to stay out of this. I don't think we do a lot of
the stuff that we are -- that we do all that efficiently. I mean, big
bureaucracies just don't work efficiently. I don't care how hard the
people try. So I'm very concerned about that.
But the kinds of problems that Mr. Barlow and others have
described simply can't be permitted to stand. We've got to solve that
problem some way. So I would prefer a private-sector solution to this
problem rather than a public-sector solution.
And along with that, I would like to see us get away from finding
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May 26, 2009
things wrong like setbacks and other things of that nature that have
existed for generations, I guess, in many cases, or decades, and
punishing people for things they have no control over, and they have
very little way of solving them.
Is there any way we can have an inspection without looking at all
those things and revealing them? Because once they're revealed, the
law requires that something be done about it, and that means that
every one of them will be brought to us to approve a variance. I
would much prefer to grandfather in any of those kinds of situations
that have existed for ten years or more, quite frankly.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You mean setbacks?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Setbacks and other encroachments
by pools or anything else. If they've been there for a long period of
time, I think we ought to start -- stop worrying about them because
they obviously haven't caused anybody any problem, but wiring and
plumbing and other things that have a direct health, safety, and
welfare problem, I think we need to take immediate action on and get
those resolved.
I like the suggestion that we focus on health, safety, and welfare
and not deal with all these other problems that we're not going to solve
anyway except to grant somebody a variance, and that's just too time
consuming to hold up a real estate transaction to do that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, a little bit concerned. I
mean, we have a blight on the community, and we're not coming up
with a method to be able to handle it. I see this as being open-ended.
I heard from Joe Schmitt that he doesn't have the money to be
able to pay for it. I also heard the audience -- someone in the audience
state the fact that the fee might be as much as $400, some number
close to it.
Mr. Schmitt, I mean, if we had an inspection that was looking for
the egregious errors, the outstanding errors, you know, walking into a
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May 26, 2009
house, I mean, if you see wires that are improperly installed that are
sticking out of the wall, if you're seeing a -- an added-on bathroom
that has the drain draining into a shower of another bathroom, things
that stand out, lanais that are enclosed, what would a walk-through
inspection for something like that cost? It would be about a IS-minute
walk-through to be able to certify that what can be seen as grievous
offenses do not exist or do exist.
And how much -- you know, IS minutes of a person's time, of
course, the drive time to and from and filing a report, I imagine, would
add to it. But what would be the cost for something like that?
Because I'll be honest with you, $400, $2S0, they're extreme costs, and
I don't know why research has to be done to be able to find out if
permits were pulled on obviously illegal conversions of lanais or
garages.
MR. SCHMITT: It depends on the spectrum of the inspection of
what you're talking about. If I have to pull records and do all that,
you're talking in the 2S0, $300, $400, depends on the length of
inspection.
If it's somebody -- if I'm going to send the building inspector out,
a licensed building inspector, to perform a code-compliant inspection,
minimum it's $SO just to get that guy in a truck and send him out for
an inspection.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay.
MR. SCHMITT: If I'm going to -- if I'm going to spend time on
the site, you're talking $7S to $100, walking the site, doing a report.
But as I came in on the last fee schedule, I showed you basically
an inspection. That's going out and conducting an on-call inspection,
one electrical or mechanicals, but roughly about $SO per inspection
under the building code. So it could be --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: But you're saying you don't
have the personnel available to do it?
MR. SCHMITT: Well, if the board directs to create an ordinance
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May 26, 2009
for this, I would certainly look at the income or look at the cost, and
then I would have to evaluate what staff I would need to meet the
demands from the industry, and I'd probably be looking at hiring
inspectors back to fulfill those requirements.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And the other part of the
equation is, is that I understand that the home inspection industry
won't be certified till 2010, next year sometime?
MR. SCHMITT: That's the current schedule under the State of
Florida, yes. January, 2010.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And if we go forward with your
inspectors, we could at some point in time train these other inspectors
to be able to fill out the proper forms and do it even for a minimal cost
and be able to fill that need. What I'm saying is is that we're not
against an impossible situation, are we?
MR. SCHMITT: No. The home inspectors would just have to be
aware of -- I'm sure the home inspector would find the same thing as
you talked about, walk out and look at a pipe draining from a shower
in the bathroom draining outside to a sewer drain or whatever. That's
obvious.
But what we could help them with is understand how to do the
research, pull the property card. They can call for the --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Why would they need to pull
the property card?
MR. SCHMITT: The property card, normally when you do a --
when you pull a building permit, and you -- the contractor signs the
notice of commencement, then that's recorded on the property card.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We're not talking about a
building permit. We're talking about grievous violations that anyone
of us could probably spot if we walked in there.
MR. SCHMITT: Well, what they'd want to probably do first to
find out even how that was constructed, did somebody pull a permit,
was it ever inspected?
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, could they go through the
process of charging one fee to do a walk-through, see something that
looks problematic, additional fee to be able to -- I'm just trying to find
a way to be able --
MR. SCHMITT: I'm not part of the industry. I have no idea
what they charge for their inspections. Normally those home
inspections can run -- what do they run, 300 to $400, $500?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Could you come back up to the
podium, please.
MR. SCHMITT: They're there for a half day normally or longer,
d. ,
an It s --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Since they're already there, it
only makes sense that their costs would be minimal.
MR. PRETE: Right. And -- well, we charge for the square
footage under air, and then if it's a house or a condo. A condo we're
obviously just doing interior. Houses we're doing everything outside,
attic, et cetera.
With regard to budget, I don't know. It kind of strikes me -- I
always heard that phrase, you know, free advice is worth every penny
you paid for it, kind of thing. If we're going to be out charging
something in, you know, as a private sector, we're going to get a fee
for it, so it's -- it would be worth something for us to get certification,
and certification shouldn't just be given to anyone. It should be a class
that we have to enroll in and pay for, just like we do for any other
certification we get.
My hours for general contracting costs, you know, a good bit of
money and time every other -- two years. But there's a reason why I
have a license and there's a reason it means something, and they don't
give it to everybody.
So same thing with this. I mean, you know, I'm not saying I want
to just start writing checks, but if we're going to collect a fee for the
service, I don't see why the county would not want to, again, start a
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course where we would enroll, pay a fee, and get a proper
certification.
And we're there anyway doing the inspection. We could probably
do it, you know, for a much less fee than $400. Maybe it would only
add $50 because we're there already, or $100.
Maybe if we have to do research, again, if we're certified, the
county would have an access special user name pin we could go in,
search county records for, you know, the lot and what was permitted
or not. It seems like it's just a couple of mouse clicks. And again, if
we have staff, we should be able to do it pretty efficiently.
And it's not going to be every property -- I don't think it's going
to be every single property that we do. It's -- you know, so --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, we already have private
inspectors out there that can certify electric, plumbing or whatever,
that work independently of the county. Maybe this would be a
direction to look at.
MR. SCHMITT: Two issues here. One is, do you want an
inspection? That was part of it. Mandatory or not? And the second
part, who would do it?
So if you want us to come back with any type of ordinance, I'm
ready to take direction. If you want to leave status quo and we'll work
with NABOR, I'll take that direction as well and at least coach, help,
and assist to get them to look at what our -- what you termed the
obvious violations so that at least the purchaser is aware of what
they're facing when, in fact, they buy this house and close, that -- and
what's happened primarily in code enforcement is somebody who
foreclosed will then call in and say, I sold the house or I was forced
out, and then they turn in the violations.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We used to have that with
husbands and wives, when one of them got a divorce, turning the other
one in. Back to you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, okay. I'll choose you first.
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
Joe, what I'm concerned about is, if we leave this to the private
sector, is that they're going to have the ability to get to the property
card to make sure what goes -- what has been added on, and --
MR. SCHMITT: Public record. They can go over to the
Property Appraiser's Office and look that up. Unfortunately they have
to go there.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: They don't do it at the present time,
but I think that that should be done.
And the other thing is, if it's been -- if there's been an addition to
the house and it's been 10 years, I think that the seller ought to be
responsible for that. So instead of the buyer doing this, I think it's the
seller's responsibility, because that's who you want to catch is the
person who's done something devious and then is trying to get away
with it, and then all of a sudden it becomes the responsibility of the
buyer, and I've got a problem with that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, the problem is, as I noticed when I
went out to see a few of the homes with John Barlow, sometimes the
buyer -- the sellers are long gone.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Then it's the bank's responsibility.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Then it's the bank, right.
I wanted to ask the real estate industry, do you have anything that
you give to sellers and to buyers to fill out that says, you know, the
seller, for instance, yes, I've added this, or I've had this inspected or
anything like that and that they -- so that then that can be passed on to
the buyer? And do you have anything -- advice to the buyers, a form
that says, it would be wise or it could be detrimental if you don't have
this kind of an inspection and this kind of an inspection, and tell them
what to inspect for, not only for wires and so forth, but also additions
and also other things that have taken place that they might not be
aware of?
I mean, I know, if I go in, I trust the real estate person to take
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May 26, 2009
care of everything, and then they're not all that good about doing that.
I mean, there's some that are outstanding but some that maybe aren't
as experienced and maybe don't do that. What do you -- what do you
do to protect the buyer?
MR. POTEET: Well, I'm going to defer this to Toni Stout
because Toni has been involved in a lot more of these residential
transactions out there, especially with the banks. And you have seller
disclosures that we ask all the sellers to fill out prior to a transaction to
come through.
And the reason we do the inspections and have the buyers pay for
it, it's for the buyer's protection. They find out what's wrong with it
prior to closing, then they have the opportunity to go back to the seller
and say, seller, you need to fix this or I don't close; or the seller may
be a bank and the seller will say, well, listen, what if you close today
and we'll give you some money to fix it up afterwards so we can get
this off our books.
The banks have a huge issue on this because they're trying to get
everything off their books for their lending purposes. It affects their
ability to do business. So the faster they can get it off, it's better for
them. In the same token, they can put monies aside in escrow in order
to take care of these issues afterwards if they choose. It's all part of a
negotiation.
But Toni, you want to comment on anything on this and what
type of protections there are? I'm a commercial broker.
MS. STOUT: Well, in our sales contract, and on -- I think it's on
Page 9 -- it lists -- inside our sales contract it tells people that they
should have an inspection, and it lists all the different things. Now, it
doesn't list wiring and so forth, but it does list mold. I can't remember
right off hand, but we go right down the list, termites and so forth.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: See Toni, when you get all of those
papers, you know, 12 -- the long, long pages all printed up, people
don't ever sit around -- and the agent is sitting there waiting for you to
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.
sIgn.
MS. STOUT: Correct.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And it's going to take you two-and-a-half
hours to read this, people just don't do that, which they should, by the
way.
MS. STOUT: At least I do. I go over the contract, and I point all
those out. The first thing I tell people is you need to have an
inspection, no matter what. And I mean, I think -- and also if you're
dealing directly with the seller, the seller lists -- we have a four-page
seller's disclosure because in, I think, the State of Florida and
nationally, if the seller is aware of problems with the property, they
can -- you know, the buyer can go back after the seller.
Now, the banks -- you know, when we submit our contracts and
we're dealing with a foreclosed property, the banks will not use our
contract. They use their own. As is, they pay for nothing. The banks,
we can't -- we can't get them to hardly answer, let alone get them to
pay for anything.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Now you're coming into my second
question.
MS. STOUT: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And that is, now we're just going to focus
on foreclosed properties. If you have this problem dealing with the
banks in order to get this sale completed, the homeowner is long gone
MS. STOUT: Correct.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- the new guy is coming in to buy, this
new person might be a first-time homeowner that doesn't know
anything at all about buying a home, or it may be some investor in
another state buying it over the telephone.
MS. STOUT: Correct.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay? How -- what can we do to ensure
-- I don't like government in a lot of these things if I can avoid it
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either, by the way. I kind of agree that, you know, the less government
the better.
On the other hand, how do we assure that in the case of a
foreclosed home -- because that's what this is really talking about,
foreclosed homes. How can we ensure that these inspections are
thorough and complete before the sale takes place?
MR. POTEET: I would ask you to ask Mrs. Flagg that question
because she's been highly successful with having them bring these
homes up to --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Diane?
MS. FLAGG: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Diane Flagg,
director of code enforcement, for the record.
If a case is reported to us, if a Realtor and several other Realtors
in town submit pages of house addresses saying that these homes are
not in code compliance, we open a case on each one. We identify
whether it's been in lis pendens. If it is, then we contact the bank.
As long as the -- from the point of lis pendens all the way to
certificate of title, we tell the banks they have to abate the violation.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So then, can they move forward
without an inspection? Can they -- can the sale move forward without
an inspection on a foreclosed home?
MS. FLAGG: What we're finding is, if you buy the home cash
where you don't have a lending bank -- so if you're buying the home
cash, the bank will sell it, obviously, and if you're buying it cash, you
don't have to get approval from a bank to buy it. So, yes, if it's a cash
deal, they can buy it without -- anyone can buy without an inspection,
but they'll be able to close even if there's significant code violations.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's usually though an investor who's
going to be buying it --
MS. FLAGG: Right.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- cash, right? And they would know
better because --
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May 26, 2009
MS. FLAGG: Generally. Not always, but generally. Now you
have the cases where, if the buyer has a lending bank -- so a buyer has
a lending bank that then is doing a couple things. They're calling code
enforcement now to see if there's any open code cases. If there is an
inspection, a code inspection done, as soon as -- if code enforcement
does the inspection they find code violations, they open a code case.
As soon as there's a code case open, generally the lending bank
will not lend the money on a home with a code violation. If you have
it done where you have a buyer who gets a home inspection through a
private-market solution, the private-market solution identifies there's
code violations. They can still close the deal. The buyer is aware that
there's code violations. It won't stop the closing unless they report it
to code inspection -- code enforcement.
If they report the violations to code enforcement, then we open a
code case. At that point, once the -- once a code case is open, the
lending bank wants to know if there's code violations on that house. If
there are, generally the deal stops.
So you really have two opposing banks. You have the bank -- so
these agreements where the selling bank is saying, you buy it as-is,
that's it, but they have to give the right to inspect. So generally what
you end up with is two banks facing off.
And as -- from our perspective, at the point that it's reported to
code enforcement, we identify that there are code violations, we open
a case code, then generally it's the bank that's holding the property is
the one that's going to have to abate the violations.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And will a mandatory code enforcement
inspection be advantageous, do you feel, to the sale of this, or do you
think it can be handled in a more expeditious manner just with -- just
throughout the industry?
MS. FLAGG: I think that it's really a multi-phased approach.
One approach was we worked with NABOR to develop a prepurchase
paid inspection which one of the speakers identified. What this
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brochure does, it's an educational brochure that the Realtors and
NABOR have agreed to give to each of the Realtors to give to their
clients.
This brochure -- and it's a continually improving document.
What this brochure does is specify the importance of getting a code
inspection prior to purchasing a property.
Then there's also the private-market solution which we've said,
we have a -- what we call ajob aid or how-to list when we do code
inspections. We said, we're happy to share that with the home
inspectors that they can follow that how-to list. And basically it's what
Commissioner Henning referred to, which is checking property cards,
verifying permits. It's going after what we're finding and what is
constantly coming before the Code Enforcement Board and the special
magistrate is, people bought a home, they signed three inches of
paperwork, they, you know, got a home inspection, so they thought
they had done everything that they needed to do.
But as the gentleman testified, that home inspectors right now
don't do code inspections. So even though the buyer who thought they
had done everything right, you know, signed their three inches of
paperwork and got a home inspection, they're coming before Code
Enforcement Board and special magistrate saying, I bought this home,
I've owned it for a week, I've owned it for three months, I've owned it
for five years, and I never knew that what we thought was a family
room really was a screened patio.
And so by taking this multi-phased approach -- from our
perspective, our goal was to get the issue out there because we were
seeing it time and time again before the Code Enforcement Board and
special magistrate.
We went to the professionals, which are -- is the realty group and
we said, look, this a serious issue for Collier County. How do you
recommend we resolve this issue?
And so, working together on the brochure to get the education
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component out there, incorporating an inspection prior to closing,
whether it's done -- I mean, leaving the option open -- some people
want code enforcement to do the inspection or county staff to do the
inspection, but others are fine with the private-market solution.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And in many cases, they really don't need
that, but there are cases that should be.
So is there a way then for the real estate industry to offer either a
level of service, here's for your house inspection and then to add code
enforcement? Can the inspection companies add that on, for this
price, now you get the code enforcement, you get the whole boat, and
this is better off for you? Is that something that can be done?
MS. FLAGG: I think the private-market solution, is -- and
NABOR's agreed to coordinate that where they get all the home
inspectors together and they say, look, this is what's involved in a code
inspection and we have that, that we -- and it's not that difficult a
process that we just -- that we just -- it's a how-to, how to get a
property card, how to get -- you know, to check for permits, how to,
you know --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Or the importance for getting a code
enforcement inspection, if there are any questions at all as to
additional improvements to the home, is that included in there?
MS. FLAGG: Right. A code -- a code enforcement inspection is
unpermitted structures primarily.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Right.
MS. FLAGG: It's when they've taken what was permitted as the
screened lanai and turned it with electrical and plumbing and
everything else into a family room, or a garage into a bedroom.
So, you know, it's really a policy decision of the board which
direction you want to go, but either will work. The goal was, look,
Collier County has an issue. It's called, we've got a lot of code cases
and we need to stop people being -- coming in thinking -- you know,
spending their life savings. This may be their first home, thinking
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they've done everything right, and then they end up with 10, 20,
$30,000 worth of code violations.
Even with the fines waived, which, as you know, the special
magistrate and the Code Enforcement Board, once the violations are
abated, they're waiving the fines, but it's the cost to come into
compliance that's catching these buyers by surprise.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Coy Ie?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And I think that's the real danger
about getting us too involved in this process.
There are many people who would love to buy that house that
had the screened-in porch converted to an extra room. It might have
been done by a contractor and it might have been done to code except,
perhaps, to the elevation that we currently have, but it might have
been okay back then, and a buyer comes by and says, I like this place,
I'd like to buy it, and we're going to force them into a situation where
they don't have that choice.
And it kills the deal. It leaves the buyer or the seller with a
tremendous cost of ripping that thing out and converting it to what it
was once before. I don't know that that really serves anybody's
purpose. You know, we are -- if we think what we're going to do is
punish people for doing bad things, we're not going to do it this way
because most of the people who did those bad things are long gone,
and the people who are holding the bag are probably innocent buyers
who didn't know that those were illegal modifications or they didn't
correspond to code.
A buyer's -- or a seller's statement concerning whether or not
there are any unpermitted structures or additions to the home depends
entirely upon the seller's knowledge. And if they didn't know this was
-- and we've seen them come before us. Time and time again we've
seen them come before us.
So, you know, this is a very complex process that can't be solved
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just by one decision. I think you've got to segment it. And if you're
going to segment it, deal only with the vacant and/or foreclosed
homes. Don't extend it to anything else right now. Ifwe want to solve
the zoning problems we have here, we just have to have better
inspections. But this will, in fact, kill a lot of real estate sales. There's
no question in my mind.
So I would suggest that we narrow the focus of this only to
foreclosed or vacant homes, and it would make it easier to make a
decision as to what we do.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We've had some pretty lengthy
conversations, and I have --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes. Over 30 minutes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Our -- Terri needs a break. Maybe --
instead of just going on some more, I'm going to take a ten-minute
break for her, okay, so we can continue when we get back.
(A brief recess was had.)
MR. OCHS: Ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats.
Madam Chair, you have a hot mike.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'm going to have to ask Eric Stats to sit
down, and Commissioner Coyle to stop talking.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I've been quiet compared to some
of the other people sitting up here, but now --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, let me say, we've pretty well beat
this thing to death.
And Commissioner Coy Ie, did you want to finish yours, and then
I'd love to hear a motion coming from --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. I make a motion we
adjourn.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Be careful. You might get a strong
second on that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Here's the deal. We've been
talking about a very, very broad application of this thing, and we're
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not going to find a good solution that will deal with all of the
circumstances that we've been talking about for the last hour and a
half. So let's narrow it. Let's talk only about the foreclosed and
vacant homes only, end of story. Let's talk only about that, because I
think --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's what this is about, right?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's right, that's what it was
about, and we got off on some tangents, so let's go back there and see
if we can't get agreement on having inspections for that category of
homes only, right now, have the private sector do those inspections,
and I would like to even go further and say, ignore -- no, I can't. I
can't ignore unauthorized structures or additions. There's no way we
can do that. You've got -- you've got to identify those and reveal
them.
But I would like to have the private sector do that. I don't want to
get involved in the real estate business and start getting between them
and their clients. I think they do a good job of handling that. And if
they don't, as Mr. Poteet has suggested, the clients likely are to start
looking to the Realtor for a cure. So I would suggest we limit it just to
that, make it a --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Would you make your motion then?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I would make my motion
that we have mandatory inspections for foreclosed and vacant homes
and it be done by the private sector.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Do I hear a second to that?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll second it, but I need to know
what vacant means.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Means nobody's living in it. You
want to say abandoned? Do you want to say abandoned; is that
better?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Maybe Mr. Schmitt can help us
on it. But what are we going to inspect? Would that be for unlicensed
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structures?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes, of course, that's what I said.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, that wasn't in the motion.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes, it was.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Was it any mold, mandatory
mold inspections? If -- well, if you're going to get an inspection, you
see any signs of mold, they're going to -- they're going to bring it up
anyway.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Right, okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What does vacant mean?
MR. SCHMITT: Vacant, the way this was written, is basically
the house is abandoned and it's in foreclosure status.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's in lis pendens?
MR. SCHMITT: Lis pendens, yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So then you've seconded that motion?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Now, Commissioners, do you
have anything that you're just dying to say? I've got Commissioner
Coletta and Halas waiting.
Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Halas was first. I hate to do it,
but he was.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: My question is, how are we going
to follow up with NABOR in regards to these inspections to make sure
that due diligence has been done and that the -- if there are some
egregious code violations, that it's addressed by the bank that owns the
property or has the property in foreclosure?
MR. SCHMITT: Well, to answer your question, if it's
mandatory, there is going to be some sort of ordinance. There will be
some sort of compliance then that they'll have to send a report to the
county that we would keep on record. So there would be that process,
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at least if it was a county ordinance that required the mandatory
inspection. That's one piece.
I think the second piece, NABOR is pretty well aware of the
ongoing problem even not dealing with foreclosure units. And Bill
and I have talked about this. Ellie, Bobbie, and others --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Just on foreclosures.
MR. SCHMITT: -- we will work with them on how they want to
proceed with other units, but that's strictly voluntary so we can work
with them on understanding what to look -- but the foreclosure
problem, if it is an ordinance, it will come back, it will describe what
vacant foreclosed is, it will describe that, and it will be -- require some
kind of a report to be submitted to the county so there's a record of that
inspection.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And if there is any structures that
have been unpermitted or there's been some additions to the structures
that have been unpermitted, that's going to be addressed so -- and it's
going to be the responsibility of the bank that holds the property?
MR. SCHMITT: I can't say legally who's going to be
responsible. There are procedures in place for dealing with structures
that were unpermitted. You can -- you can have those permitted after
the fact. You can go through -- I just lost the word -- where basically
it's a permit by affidavit. There are methods to go through if they want
a permit. In most cases, these structures, it's far cheaper just to take
them out, if there's bathrooms in garages and --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's what I'm talking about.
MR. SCHMITT: It's far cheaper just to get a demo permit and
rip the whole thing out and convert it back to a garage. But that --
those decisions will be made by the buyer or seller. We -- that's not --
certainly not the county's issue. The county will just note there's a
problem, we'll note that there's corrections that have to be made and if
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And who takes care of those
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corrections?
MR. SCHMITT: It will be, if that's --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Who cares.
MR. SCHMITT: Private sector is going to have to figure out do
they -- just like John does now. He makes a decision. Does he rip it
out or does he go through permitting by affidavit? He's done both,
working with my -- the building department he's done both, both
courses of action, whichever is the least onerous or least -- from a
standpoint of cost savings.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: John, when you do this, do you --
does this come out of your pocket? How do you address these
violations, these egregious violations that you've been finding? Is it
the bank that takes care of this?
MR. BARLOW: We've negotiate -- we've negotiated very low
prices. And we know before we finalize the deal that there are
unpermitted and illegal structures in place.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So you take on the responsibility?
MR. BARLOW: We accept responsibility, and we add it to the
mortgage of the -- when we sell the house, we add it to the selling
price of the home, because we are fortunate to have --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MR. BARLOW: -- CBDG money and SHIP money to lower--
to take care of this. The other segment, I would recommend that you
consider the banks to abate these things, because you -- right now, to
be honest with you, you've got federal government shoring up these
banks to a great degree.
And the average house that we have purchased has a market
value or purchase price of over $200,000, and we paid 60 for it, so
there has been a haircut there. But we've done one permit by affidavit,
and it was simply to enhance the value of the house. It was a nice,
well-done lanai, and we went through all of the stuff to get it
permitted, and it's coming out well. It takes time.
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COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. So what you do is, when
you negotiate with the house, you say here's the violations; that has an
effect on the final selling price as far as you're concerned, and you're
willing to take on the responsibility of bringing that house up to code?
MR. BARLOW: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, thank you. Couple of
things.
Mr. Schmitt, don't go yet. The problem is now. It's not six
months from now or a year from now. It's right now. And hopefully
in a couple years we'll be out of this.
What are we going to do to be able to turn this thing around and
get it back to us as soon as possible? I know we're going into a
summer recess, but meanwhile the foreclosures are coming down one
after the other, speculators are entering into the market, there's all sorts
of forces out there that are taking advantage of this situation. How
soon can you have something to bring back to us?
MR. SCHMITT: I'll look at the second meeting in June. I can't
make it by the next meeting because we're already turning in
executive summaries. Look at -- I'll look at the -- four weeks from
today, basically bringing something back for you to look at.
And if you want me to go ahead and advertise that as an
advertised review of the ordinance, I'll do that. We'll finalize the
ordinance.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We need to be able to do
something that will move it forward --
MR. SCHMITT: Yep.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- because if we have it come
before us and it has to come back to us again, it's going to be July, the
meeting in July, and if it comes -- something goes wrong there, we're
all the way into September. And meanwhile, hundreds and hundreds
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of homes are going to go by us without the opportunity for oversights.
MR. SCHMITT: I need 14 days advertising, so we'll finalize it,
we'll advertise it and advertise it for public review at your meeting in
June.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And the directions we're giving
you, which I agree with, they give you a little latitude to be able to
work back and forth?
MR. SCHMITT: Yes, and we'll explain everything in the
ordinance and try and make it very clear. And if there are any issues,
we'll come back and ask the board for guidance.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And I might ask Commissioner
Coyle, who's the motion maker, would you give consideration to
having this come back to us in a year to be able to evaluate where we
are?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I think the board has the option of
doing that anyway whether I suggest it or not.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, we do have that option,
but if we have no numbers or facts or figures in front of us, we have
nothing to work with.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, then why don't I just add to
the motion that we direct staff to accumulate data which will help us
evaluate the effectiveness in 12 months?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Twelve months after the
ordinance goes into play?
MR. SCHMITT: And we'll write some kind of language,
working with Jeffs staff. We'll require review within a year.
MR. KLATZKOW: We'll put in sunset language so we'll come
back to you.
MR. SCHMITT: Sunset within a year.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Another question I got is --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Let me just ask if the second agrees with
that?
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Sure.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Then the other thing I wanted to
go to is the HOME inspector. That's you. Yep. If I could get your
attention for just one moment.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Poor guy.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Are we putting an undue
hardship upon you to be able to --
MR. PRETE: Get up and down, no.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You're good at this, you know
that. As far as having to get that learning curve behind you to able to
make this whole thing come together? Of course, I know you can't be
a spokesman from your industry, but you're the only one here.
So the direction we're going with this, do you understand what
we're talking about? I mean, you would be the person that's -- you and
your colleagues out there would being bearing the responsibility of
carrying this forward in a timely fashion. Any questions?
MR. PRETE: No. Just when do we get started?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Any shortcomings in this that
you can see that we should be covering now as far as directions go?
MR. PRETE: No, all I -- as I said, all I would like to do is make
sure that we're all in agreement with, you know, what the county
wants to see, whether it be the code enforcement, fire, et cetera,
educate us and give us the appropriate, whatever form.
And as far as reporting, if you need, you know, we'll give you a
hard copy, a DVD, or an e-file, whatever you want.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm counting on you and the
contractors and the Realtors to all get together and make this thing
come forward to us at the last meeting in June. There shouldn't be
anybody pointing -- planting any poison pills in this to try to kill it.
Okay, thank you.
MR. PRETE: Thank you.
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COMMISSIONER COYLE: And we're going to hold you
personally responsible for this program, and you'll be criminally liable
for any lapses.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I like that kind of talk.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aren't you glad you were here today?
Okay, Commissioners. Oh, Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's it. I'm finished.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We have a motion on the floor and
a second.
Would you like to have the motion read one more time?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I would.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Let's read it one more time.
MR.OCHS: Okay. Here's what I have, ma'am. We are going to
come back on 23 June with an ordinance that would require
mandatory inspection of foreclosed homes by private sector
inspectors, and we will accumulate data over the year and bring that
back for board review subsequent.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It was foreclosed and vacant, wasn't it?
MR. OCHS: Well, we're going to have to define that in the
ordinance, but foreclosed and vacant, yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Is that correct?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And the second?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
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May 26, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Whoa, that's a 5-0.
Okay. Now we go back to 7A, right?
Item #7A
RESOLUTION 2009-140: PETITION V A-2008-AR-13977 TIM
CHESS OF MCDONALD'S USA, LLC, REPRESENTED BY
JEFFREY SA TFIELD OF CPH ENGINEERS, INC., IS
REQUESTING A VARIANCE FROM THE LANDSCAPE
REQUIREMENTS OF LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE
SUBSECTION 4.06.02, BUFFER REQUIREMENTS, IN THE
GENERAL COMMERCIAL (C-4) AND GATEWAY TRIANGLE
MIXED USE SUBDISTRICT (GTMUD-MXD), TO ALLOW A
MODIFICATION OF THE REQUIRED 7.5-FOOT WIDE BUFFER
ON THE WESTERN SIDE OF THE PROPERTY; AND TO
REDUCED BUFFER WIDTHS ON THE PROPERTY'S
NORTHERN SIDE FROM 15 FEET TO TEN FEET, THE
EASTERN SIDE FROM 7.5 FEET TO FIVE FEET, AND THE
SOUTHERN SIDE FROM 10 FEET TO FIVE FEET. THE 0.86-
ACRE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 2886 TAMIAMI
TRAIL EAST, IN SECTION 11, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH, RANGE
25 EAST. COLLIER COUNTY. FLORIDA - ADOPTED
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am, advertised public hearings, Item 7 A,
which was formerly 17L. This item has been continued from the April
28, 2009, BCC meeting.
This item requires all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided by commission members.
V A-2008-AR-13977, Tim Chess of McDonald's USA, LLC,
represented by Jeffrey Satfield of CPH Engineers, Inc., is requesting a
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variance from the landscape requirements of the Land Development
Code Subsection 4.06.02, buffer requirements, in the general
commercial C4 and Gateway/Triangle mixed-uses subdistrict to allow
a modification of the required 7.S-foot-wide buffer of -- on the
western side of the property and to reduce buffer widths on the
property's northern side from IS feet to 10 feet, the eastern side from
7.S feet to S feet, and the southern side from 10 feet to S feet.
The 0.86-acre subject property is located at 2886 Tamiami Trail
East in Section 11, Township SO south, Range 2S east, Collier County,
Florida.
This item was moved at Chairman Fiala's request.
MS. CHADWELL: Good afternoon, Commission. For the
record, Ellen Chadwell. I'm pleased to be here in front of you today,
especially to be associated with this project, which I think is going to
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We've got to --
MR. KLATZKOW: We forget so fast.
MS. CHADWELL: Do you want to swear everybody in?
MR.OCHS: Yes.
MS. CHADWELL: Okay.
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And we need to have ex parte from the
. .
commISSIoners.
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So let's start with you, Commissioner
Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Oh, thank you.
Yes. I've had meetings and correspondence on this item, thank
you. And I have it all in my folder if anyone wishes to see it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I almost had a meeting, and I
had some correspondence from staff.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Almost counts. That was good work.
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May 26, 2009
Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. I don't have anything on
this item, as far as just staff.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I did talk with them briefly, and
don't know any other particulars, just concerned about why it got
pulled, and they really couldn't tell me. So I'm waiting to hear from
you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And when Commissioner Coyle
gets back, although I think that was him -- oh, maybe that's not him
yet.
I have many disclosures. I've been out to see every single
McDonald's in all of Collier County to see how they're situated on
properties. I've spoken with Ellen Chadwell a number of times. We've
had meetings in my office a couple of times, and in the meetings --
you'll see Mike back there -- Mike was in the meetings and these
fellows were in the meetings, and I've spoken to staff and I've spoken
to Susan Istenes and Joe Schmitt, and I've spoken to the people on
Bayshore CRA, and I think -- I didn't stand on the street corner and
speak to people going by, but I think I've spoken to everybody else.
Thank you.
MS. CHADWELL: Okay. Well, again, for the record, Ellen
Chadwell. We're here on these variances as were described by Mr.
Ochs.
I'd like to just make a couple of introductory remarks and then
turn it over to Mr. Satfield, who is with CPH Engineers and will be
making the presentation.
This project -- first of all, I'd like to make it clear that this is a site
that is leased by McDonald's. They do not own this property. They
lease it. It is an owner-operated site by Mr. Mike Adams who is here
today and may be available to answer any questions you may have as
this progresses.
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We also have Tim Chess, who is the area construction manager
for McDonald's, who will be here to address any questions you may
have.
This project was -- received a recommendation from staff. It
went to the Planning Commission where it received a 9-0 vote in favor
of recommending -- in favor of these variances that are building
requested.
The main driving force for these variances is the shape and the
size of this site. This site is less than one acre. It's .86 acres. And
what McDonald's has attempted to do and has done is, although
they're asking for a variance on the widths of these buffers, they are
still meeting the vegetative material requirements of the buffers and,
in fact, are actually exceeding the square footage of landscaped area
that these required buffers would otherwise require.
So they're basically modifying the buffer on the west side and,
like I said, they're making some adjustments with landscaping islands
and such so that they can continue to meet the intent of the code in the
open spaces and with the plantings.
With that, I would like to also mention that this has been run
through CRA staff, through Ms. Jordan and Executive Director Dave
Jackson. They've indicated they have no issues with this proposal,
petition for variances.
And with that, I will turn the matter over to Mr. Satfield.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And before you go any further, I also
needed to declare that I did meet with my East Naples Advisory Board
and talked to them about this as well to get their input on this.
And then Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I had meetings with -- on April 24,
2008 with Mike Adams, Tim Chess, and Albert Lopez; on 5/22/2009 I
met with Jeffrey Satfield and Tim Chess. On May the 17th, I had two
Big Macs and an order of French fries, and I did stand on the corner
and talk to all the people going by, yes.
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Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You hide them well.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I carry them around with me
right here.
MR. SA TFIELD: All set?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
MR. SATFIELD: Okay. I'm Jeffrey Satfield with CPH
Engineers. I'm up here with my partner, Brady Lessard, as well.
And Ellen provided a good summary on it, and I hope to just
provide quickly a little bit more depth on this. First of all, we're very
pleased to be here today, and especially with a positive staff report, a
unanimous vote from P&Z (sic).
We've been working a long road now. While some of you all,
this is the first time you've seen this and some of you just from recent
meetings, today represents years, three-and-a-halfyears plus, of
efforts to bring this project to fruition and redevelop this property.
It started out -- as Ellen said, this is a leased property, and it
started out with negotiations of trying to acquire enough land that we
can control to make this happen within the boundaries of the current
code.
The existing property and the existing building, or actually the
building itself is actually larger than we're proposing today.
If we were just to go in there and try to scrape that building
down, we wouldn't be able to meet code in numerous areas, much
more than what we're asking for the variance today for.
So we worked for, what, Tim, two-and-a-half years --
two-and-a-half years with the underlying landowner to acquire control
of the property that we have today, which is about. 86 acres of land,
and this represents the maximum amount of area that we have control
over and will be able to control to make this project happen.
This is quickly -- that's a quick visual of the site as it stands
today. It's got an existing McDonald's and a PlayPlace centered on the
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property. Off to the west side of that -- is that west or north area --
we've got a free-standing freezer, and then -- and that area is mostly
impervious, not a whole lot of vegetation. There's some sea grapes
out front. There's a few trees throughout the property, and that's what
we've got today, a visual, quick visual of the building itself. Again,
McDonald's that's showing some age, time to redevelop, and we're
anxious to do so.
There are -- this represents the visual of the -- what we're trying
to do. And again, what we've done is worked very closely with staff
even as early as this morning working with Mike Sawyer on the
landscaping to be sure that we've got a product that we can be proud
of.
The buffers -- while we're asking for a reduction in the width, we
aren't asking for a reduction in plantings. And in fact, we are planting
in excess between the building and 41 to be sure we're properly
buffering 41.
We've got excess building planter areas. We've got excess patio
areas that are required. The code requires patio areas at the entrances.
We actually are providing two patio areas. We've got multiple
entrance points -- patio areas at both sites. So we've got -- while we
are asking for this variance, we're coming -- we're coming forward
with a plan to mitigate for that with the extra plantings, with the extra
planter areas around the building, and the patio areas and the building.
It's not a situation where we're trying to just eliminate landscape
because it's inconvenient. We actually want the trees there, we want
the bushes there, we want to look good for the neighborhood. We
hope that this is a catalyst for this area, that redevelopment will occur
because of this. They'll see that somebody's doing something and it
will be something that will progress forward.
Some of the areas that are restricting us: Again, on size, we're
about .86 acres right now. A typical McDonald's in most
municipalities across the state need more than an acre of land
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nowadays.
And, again, this represents two-and-a-half, three years of
negotiating with the underlying property owner. This is all the land
we've got. This is all the land we're going to have and we aren't going
to be able to acquire any more.
The shape of the parcel itself: As you can see, the shape is
difficult. Not a lot of parallel lines there. It's an odd-shaped piece of
property to begin with, going from a very deep area -- deep area on
one side to a very narrow area on the other. The longest part is the
length parallel to facing 41 here, and that's why the building is situated
as it is.
Adjacent to an abandoned gas station lot there. Some of the
efforts that we've made to mitigate, again, exceeding on landscaping,
as Ellen mentioned, building planters areas and such. And then also
the architecture itself, working closely with staff to try to bring an
architecture that will be viewed as a positive.
You see on the building here, all four sides of this building are
treated as a primary facade, even the rear side. So we hope that this
will be something that will stand out as an effort in the CRA to
redevelop this area and something that folks can point to in the future
as a project done right.
Public safety areas. There are two access points for this small
piece of property on U. S. 41. We're actually going to be eliminating
one of the access points closest to the signal, increasing public safety.
Access onto the property itself, we're going to increase depth and
widen drive aisles so that when public safety vehicles are on the
property or need to be on the property, they've got better circulation
on the property.
We've already requested a parking variance, again, to try to
maximize our landscape areas. We've got a reduction in parking
spaces, so we're already underparked, but we've got enough parking
now.
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May 26, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Let me cut to the chase. It's nice of you to
give all of this and -- but I'm sure that they're curious as to why I
pulled this.
MR. SATFIELD: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And so let me just get rid of all the rest of
that and get right down to it.
MR. SA TFIELD: Certainly.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And that is, the drive-through is facing
U.S. 41. The drive-through, the pick-up windows are facing U.S. 41.
The building is as long in the front as it is in the back. I said, just
switch it so that then the beautiful part of the building is facing U.S.
41. And then I was told, well, it looks just as good as Pebblebrook. I
went over to look at Pebblebrook. That is not beautiful. So -- and
that's the only one that has the drive-through facing the street. The
rest of them all have them facing the back.
Then they said, well, it can't face the back because it's in the
shopping center and, you know, we have certain criteria and parking.
So I got together with Susan Istenes and JD. We all had a
meeting. And they said a lot of things can be done, but because this is
in a CRA area we can -- we can work with them. We can eliminate
some of the -- first of all, they have a shared parking agreement with
the shopping center, and I want to tell you that shopping center has
plenty of parking available. Never a problem with parking.
And then I said, what else can be done, and they -- because what
they're worried about, what the McDonald's people are worried about
is that their -- that their shopping center is owned by somebody else,
and if they do their property right, it might trigger the shopping center
to have to meet code, and this thing was built -- well, it was here
before I was here, and I came in 1974.
So it's been that long since it's been improved, okay, and the
shopping center does not want to improve the area. I understand that,
because it's a lot of money. I understand that they have to bring up the
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architecture and so forth.
So I said to our staff, isn't there a way that we can work together
so that this can be a catalyst for new things coming in rather than have
its back facing the street? And we're going to have to live with that
for 30 years, that's the problem, or 35 years, however long it will be
there.
And I -- let's do it right the first time so that as redevelopment
takes place it becomes an asset rather than the back end of it facing the
street. And that's my big concern.
And so staff said, yes, we can work with them and we can -- we
can modify things and so forth. And so that's why I brought it to your
attention, and maybe we can hear from staff.
Susan, would you like to say what we can do and possibly work
with them?
MR. SA TFIELD: If I may come back up and address some of
those comments you've had later?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
MR. SA TFIELD: Thank you.
MS. ISTENES: Susan Istenes, zoning director. I wasn't really
prepared to speak, so let me just --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, I'm sorry.
MS. ISTENES: No. I mean, I was going to answer questions. I
fully anticipated that.
Let me just give you a little bit of a background. This is in a
commercial zoning district, and because it's classified as
redevelopment, it's allowed to go under what's called an alternative
architectural design; and we review that, the architectural plans,
during the Site Development Plan review process, and that's
administratively approved. So you all don't normally see that
obviously.
When we got this variance application -- and it has been in the
works for several years now -- or at least, I think, two years maybe on
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our desk. But it's gone through multiple planners.
When it come to me, I noticed that the building was configured
with the drive-through parallel to U. S. 41, which the architectural code
does not allow; however, because this is in redevelopment, it allows
some alternatives, and one of the alternatives is a landscape buffer and
other things, and I won't go into that.
But I wanted to ensure that the building was built to current code
because this is a redevelopment opportunity, and they don't come
along that often, and certainly the goal of the architectural standards
and redevelopment in general is to bring things up to current code.
So there's some flexibility. Commissioner Fiala, you stated
correctly, there's flexibility in parking, which they've availed -- they,
the developers, availed themselves of, and we have granted some
flexibility there because there is quite a bit of parking in the shopping
center, so there won't be a parking issue.
There's some flexibility in the landscape buffering to a certain
degree; however, they still needed some variances, and that's why
they're before you today.
And then it comes to the situating of the building. And because it
is redevelopment, there's some flexibility there; however, our
recommendation was for the building to meet code. After all, this is
redevelopment and it should meet code.
The developer stated that they were unable to acquire additional
land. There's no physical barriers that we could see. I mean, a lot of
times you'll get an already-created parcel where there's adjoining
development or a lake or some other factor that really hamstrings the
size of the parcel and what can go on the parcel.
In this case my understanding was that it was a matter of the
shopping center property owner not wanting to give more land for
whatever reason. I didn't quite ever understand that.
But -- so we sort of felt as staff that, you know, that really it
should be done right, honestly, and there's opportunities to be done
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right. And being done right means it meets current architectural code;
otherwise, why have code?
And so we worked diligently with the developer in looking at
alternatives. This was an alternative we came up with, not knowing
what you all were going to approve. You can certainly still approve
the variance, but at the end of this meeting, I would like some
indication from you as to how you would like the building designed
and whether that be at face -- the drive-through face 41, if you're okay
with that, or should the front face 41 like the code requires.
So -- and they would have to then design accordingly. So am I
answering your questions and providing the info you were asking me?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah. That's all that I wanted to do was
see that it -- you know, the front of the building face the road and the
back of the building face the back, face the parking lot. That's what
I'm -- you know, they have lovely landscaping there, but I went to all
the McDonald's. I never saw any lovely landscaping.
Some of them were neat, you know. The one, of course, that this
is taking the place of is not neat. But some of the other ones where,
even Mike -- bless his sweet heart -- even Mike said, you know, I
don't like it either. He's not happy with it. He wishes it would be
different.
And I figured, the only one that can make it different is me and --
to bring it to everybody's attention, so I'm doing just that.
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I'm puzzled, and you might
be right, but I'm just puzzled. This thing went through the entire
review process, it received approval -- recommendation of approval
by the staff, it passed the Planning Commission unanimously. There's
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Failed the architectural review board
though.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, where is that?
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May 26, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Page 18 of --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, how about in the executive
summary?
MS. ISTENES: What are you looking for?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: A statement that it failed the
architectural review board in the executive summary.
MS. ISTENES: No. There's -- well, I mean, we don't have an
architectural review board. Architectural review is done as part of the
staff review of the site plan. And let me make it clear. It -- I wanted to
bring it to your attention that the building isn't going to meet code
because the drive-through is going to face 41. This isn't -- this isn't
what you're approving today, but I think that was a concern of
Commissioner Fiala's, obviously, that's why she pulled it. And so I'm
looking for feedback from you all because we have the ability to
review the site plan and approve it. But if that's not what you want,
then -- and that's not your intent in improving the variance, then I'd
like some feedback from that.
The variance aside, they still, you know, have the right -- and you
should consider the variance on the merits of the variance itself.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, how can I do that if we're
going to turn the building around? You know, my problem really is --
maybe Commissioner Fiala's absolutely right, maybe it's going to look
better if we do it a different way. But my problem is, why are we
dealing with that now that the petitioner has spent all this time going
through approvals, having architectural drawings done, working out
the landscaping and the parking and traffic lanes and everything else,
and all of a sudden we pop up here and say, well, we don't like the
design of your building?
MS. ISTENES: Well, Commissioner, let me -- let me back up,
because it's not our job to design the building for them. We
considered the variance. What I happened to notice was, the layout of
the plan, which is really -- I mean, is provided to show kind of where
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May 26, 2009
the variances are. But the layout of the plan -- I did not want them to
get further down the road and expect that you were approving the
layout of the plan.
You're simply approving the variances. It's their job -- they hire
the architects, the engineers, the designers to layout the plan
according to our code. And when I saw that the building was laid out
sideways, I said, if your expectation is you're going to get approval for
this, be aware that that is not what the code allows presently.
So rather than going through this work of the variance and then
having them come in and say, we expected to have our building
sideways and I said, that's not what you got approved for, you only got
approved for a variance, you still have to meet the code --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, what's sideways?
MS. ISTENES: Sideways.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Which side do you want to be
where?
MS. ISTENES: The code requires that the front face 41.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. What's the front ofa
McDonald's restaurant?
MS. ISTENES: Where the main entrance is, and it is facing the
west currently under their plan. If currently faces --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. You want to turn the long
end of the building clockwise; is that what you're saying?
MS. ISTENES: That's what they're processing is, the long end of
the building, which is where the service window is for the
drive-through will face U.S. 41, and the front will face west.
MR.OCHS: Show the front, Susan.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Show me the front and show me
the drive-through.
MS. ISTENES: Okay. U.S. 41.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yep, I got that part.
MS. ISTENES: Drive-through.
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MS. ISTENES: Front.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Now, where do you want
the front to be?
MS. ISTENES: Right here.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You want it to be there, which
means the long end of that -- the length of that building is going to be
going approximately 90 degrees from its current orientation, right?
MS. ISTENES: Correct.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Now, how will that fit with respect
to available parking, landscaping, buffers? Wouldn't you really want
to have that building turned that way before you come in and get
landscaping buffers approved and get setbacks approved?
MS. ISTENES: I would think they would. I'm not the designer
of the building though, Commissioner. Their responsibility is design
to code. Not mine.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Wow, okay. You know, if I were
them, I'd be very, very, very angry about how this is taking place. It
might be a better program, but catching somebody right at the last
point when they've gone through the process of arranging their
landscape buffers to meet our requirements, they have given up
parking spaces so they can site their building, they've done everything
they can to buffer the building from 41, and then all of a sudden we
say, well, you know, we want you to move your building.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Let me tell you though, just to interrupt.
Last year when I first spoke with Mike, he gave me a different picture
of the building altogether and said, you know, this is -- we're finally
going to do something with this building, and I said, oh, man, does it
need it? And it looked wonderful. Just so happened that that picture
and this one don't look at all alike.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. You have the right to
complain about that if you think you were deceived on it. This is the
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May 26, 2009
first I've heard about it, and I'm really surprised. I thought they'd done
a really good job of dealing with the setbacks.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And I wouldn't mind if they turned the
building 180 degrees so that the --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, then they've got the back end
of the building facing in-coming traffic. You know, you don't have
the McDonald's name even visible then from the traffic going on 41.
So I don't know what we're asking. But if you can come up with
a better design, I'm willing to support it.
MS. ISTENES: Commissioner Fiala, may I comment?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
MS. ISTENES: I mean no disrespect, Commissioner, but I
honestly feel like I did them a favor bringing it up ahead of time,
because you know what honestly we probably could have done is, you
could have approved the variance, we already gave them the parking
requirement. They would have come in with their site plan and we
could have said, sorry, it doesn't meet code, so -- and then they're
really up a creek, honestly.
So it was not intended to try to punish them or to pull the rug out
from underneath their feet, honestly. It was intended to call it to their
attention before they got to you so that they could revise if possible.
MS. CHADWELL: May I interject something at this point?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: If you would just wait a minute.
Commissioner Henning, did you have your light on?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. I don't know how this
helps, but the main entrance is not facing U.S. 41 now, it's on the
sides, and that's how most people enter McDonald's.
And the second thing, the playground's in the front, not that it has
anything to do with McDonald's. But, you know, the playground at
my house is in the back.
I don't know why this is such a big concern since you have a
buffer buffering, you know, the person taking the money, the person
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taking the food. Speed limit is 45 miles an hour down there. I just -- I
don't understand the concern, but it is what it is.
MS. CHADWELL: Yeah. I would just like to clarify something
that Susan has said.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And by the way, that's the first
McDonald's in Naples.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It was, yeah.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I thought you were here when it
was built.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It was already here when I arrived in
1974.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: She was here when the first
McDonald's in the United States was built.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I was here when they first planted the first
tree in Collier County.
I'm sorry.
MS. CHADWELL: There's -- it is true that the code encourages
and wants to see drive-throughs located other than on an arterial
facing the roadway, but the code also specifically states -- if I can find
my place here for just a second -- if site constraints limit the location
of the drive-through facility to the area between the right-of-way and
associated buildings, the vegetation required by a type B landscape
buffer must be installed within the buffer width required for the
project and maintained along the entire length of the drive-through
lane and adjacent right-of-way.
So while the code doesn't like drive-throughs facing the
right-of-way, it does allow for this option. And the -- and it
specifically provides for the alternative architectural review under
section where -- section 5.05.08(B)3 where property is being
redeveloped. That's what we have here.
And with all due respect, Commissioner, the site plan that was
originally presented has always shown the drive-through facing 41. It
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May 26, 2009
may not be readily apparent from a layperson's standpoint in looking
at the plan. And you know, for that I apologize on behalf of
McDonald's, but there was no intention to mislead anybody.
And in terms of what you all need to know is that the building
just can't be rotated. And I will let Mr. Satfield speak to that, if he
could, because I think there's a large misconception about that. The
site is so small that it can't be -- it can't be done this way.
Okay. Thank you.
MS. ISTENES: Madam Chair, I did need to put also on the
record, the Planning Commission also did discuss this issue, so they
were aware of it. We had brought it up at that time and were aware of
it. They did, however, as your records indicate, recommend approval
for the variances --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Wasn't it stated to them they will -- the
new building, at least, is better than what is there now?
MS. ISTENES: My recollection is, a change -- or something is
better than nothing, and they were willing to settle, but that's -- that is
in your staff report.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And that's my problem. I haven't been
willing to settle because I figure, we're going to have to look at this for
the next 35 years, and I would at least like it to be something that's an
enhancement to the area. But I'm leaving that up to you
commissioners. I'm just telling you I don't like it.
And Mike, I don't mean any disrespect to you. I mean, I just -- I
just want it to look great. And I've never seen landscaping look like
that in any place. Excuse me.
MR. SATFIELD: That's okay. Are we all-- if I may, a couple
things to address. This -- the issue with the drive-through and the
additional buffer was brought up at -- right before P&Z. And actually,
we had two P&Z hearings. It was continued because of this
discussion.
If I may, over here. Our first P&Z hearing, when our first
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application went in --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: What's P&Z?
MR. SA TFIELD: Planning and zoning. Planning Commission --
excuse me. I'm sorry -- did not have this additional landscape buffer
directly adjacent to the drive-through. This being the drive-through
area here.
One of the things that was brought up was that we would need a
B, as in boy, planting area, which was a higher hedge and a tighter tree
clustering. We were continued and encouraged to work with staff.
At that point we went back to staff. Susan was in attendance and
maybe she can -- recalls this meeting -- but had landscape and
engineering and JD and Susan, and we worked this through, that yes,
in fact, this was allowed with the type B, as in boy, plantings, and
that's where this additional 5 foot, 10 foot out by 41, and then 5 foot
directly adjacent to, was added in.
And as -- my recollection was, was that staff felt this met the
intent of the code and that we were, in fact, entitled so long as we had
this additional 5-foot planter, to have the drive-through facing 41.
So to a point, this -- the fact that the drive-through would need
additional buffering is not something new to us today. It was
something that was brought up prior to the Planning Commission
hearings. We went back to staff and worked out -- we added in the
additional landscape material, five-foot hedge, additional tree
plantings, and then a double row of hedges out by 41, which is beyond
the minimum code, which is a B.
And then we went back to the Planning Commission, and that's
where we got our unanimous vote. I don't recall -- I think -- the word
settling was used. I was at that hearing. I didn't remember settling
being said. You usually don't get a unanimous approval when folks
are settling.
I think everyone felt that the building was good, the mitigation
for the drive-through with the additional plantings, they felt that it was
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appropriate. My opinion was that it was a strong presentation and it
went over well.
So the fact is that, you know, as Ellen pointed out, it is allowed
by code, additional buffering is required. We went back and put
beyond what is required to have the drive-through facing 41, and this
is what we have today.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, Commissioner, I'll just cut this
short then and say, I'd like to make a motion to deny and see if I get a
second.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And I don't have one.
Okay. Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. Are you telling me that it's
impossible to turn this building? It cannot be turned so that the front
is facing on 41 ? Is that what you're saying?
MR. SA TFIELD: Within the constraints of the property, that is
correct.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So there's no way you can do that?
MR. SATFIELD: We cannot.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Notice within the constraints of the
property, but that's talking about parking, which then can be used in
the rest of the parking lot because they have a shared parking
agreement, but they didn't say that. I'll just add that in there.
MR. SA TFIELD: And, again, the parking as pointed out -- this
is a redevelopment area. Yes, there's parking there today. There is --
in our cross-parking agreement, there is no minimum standards. The
day that that property is redeveloped -- and when it is redeveloped,
there will be a significant reduction to the parking on this property as
there was, you know, to meet new code.
They could go down -- they could lose 200 spaces. And we --
yes, we can park on their property, but if there's no parking there --
you know, ten years from now when they redevelop, there's no
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parking there.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So you don't have a legal claim to
any additional property off of the .86-acre site.
MR. SA TFIELD: Correct, correct.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We have two speakers. Would you
call the speakers, please.
MS. FILSON: Ellen signed up. I don't think she needs to speak.
And then Mike Adams.
MR. ADAMS: I'd like to speak. Probably shouldn't be speaking,
but I'm going to speak, if you don't mind.
I'm Mike Adams. It's my store, okay. I started there as a crew
person back in 1973, okay . Worked my way up through the ranks.
My partner and I, Tom O'Reiley, we got 20 stores now
throughout Collier County, Bonita Springs, Fort Myers Beach, and
San Carlos Park.
So anyways, this is number one for us. It's very important to us.
A lot of history over there, okay. But it's tired. Needs to get fixed.
Needs to get upgraded.
We're doing a ton of upgrades on this site. So if you can visualize
what's on the wall there and compare that to what's there currently,
you know, I don't think it takes too much insight to see that we are
really making a huge difference and a huge change is going to happen
at that site.
So this building's going to be much more efficient, it's going to
be modern, it's going to be more energy efficient, it's going to have a
lot of enhancements with the drainage in that area. I don't know if
you've ever been over there on a rainy day. That shopping center's got
issues, you know, but we're going to fix our issues.
And to just cut through all this stuff -- you know, there's a lot of
technical stuff, and stuff I don't even halfways understand. You know,
I thought this district was supposed to help a business owner be able to
redevelop a business that has constraints, because roads -- over 35
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years, roads get widened, and what happens? You've got a smaller lot,
you know.
And a lot of things happen to make a site be very difficult to be
upgraded and to be meet -- meet all these codes. We're only asking
for a variance for a couple landscape buffers, and we've just busted
our butts to try to get everything addressed so that all the staff people
would be happy with all the stuff that we're doing and so this we can
meet all the codes. And I think we're only short on a couple landscape
buffers.
So, boy, I sure -- I just -- I need your help, you know, so we can
get these landscape buffers so that we can move forward with this site,
and if we can't get this done, I don't know what we're going to do with
the site. I guess we'll just continue on for a while with what we've got
until we can figure out another way, another solution.
So anyways, I need your help and I appreciate your time. Thank
you very much.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, I just -- I know that
Commissioner Fiala is interested in making this a beautiful place, in
fact all of the 41 area very attractive.
Is there anything that you could do from a standpoint of a little
more vegetation or landscaping that would get it closer to
Commissioner Fiala's --
MR. ADAMS: That's what the guys have been trying to do.
They've been trying to work with the staff.
MR. LESSARD: And I think, Commissioner, in that vein -- and
I appreciate the chairman's position on this as well. And I think in that
vein, what we discussed as a team internally with the commissioner
and with Susan and her staff last week was, this team here, the
McDonald's team, the Mike Adams team, is willing to commit to
maintaining the landscaping and things, and I can understand that
there's been other sites around that haven't done that.
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What we're looking to do as far as landscaping on this site, this
will be a beautification of -- and as Jeffrey mentioned earlier, serve as
a catalyst for that area, a corridor that's had a tough time attracting the
investment it's been deserving for so long. You've got a team in place
right now that's willing to make that commitment.
And we even joked, Madam Chairman, of inviting you to the
grand opening. And you know Mike personally, so you can hold his
feet to the fire, moving forward to make sure those improvements are
not only made, but maintained.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioners, my vote was not
seconded, so where do you want to go from here?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I have a motion to approve by
Commissioner Coy Ie, a second by Commissioner Henning.
Any further discussion?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, just one other thing.
When that was built, U. S. 41 was four lanes?
MR. ADAMS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mike, did they take the property
from the inside or the outside? I don't recall.
MR. ADAMS: You know, I can't remember. I remember the
sidewalks did move though, and the sidewalks came closer to the sea
grapes there and the parking area.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. That's it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. All those in favor, signify by
.
saYIng aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign? That's me.
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May 26, 2009
Okay, Mike, if that ever -- if that landscaping ever looks bad, I'm
going to be at your doorstep every day.
MR. ADAMS: Give me a call. I'll buy you a beer.
MR. SA TFIELD: Thank you for your time.
Item #10D
REPORT OF COLLIER COUNTY 2009 STATE LEGISLATIVE
PRIORITIES AND COLLIER COUNTY LEGISLATIVE
DELEGATION 2009 PRIORITIES - MOTION TO ACCEPT
STAFF'S REPORT AND DIRECT CHAIR TO WRITE LETTERS
URGING GOVERNOR CHRIST TO VETO: SB 216 (PROHIBITS
LOCAL GOVERNMENT FROM EXPENDING FUNDS ON
ISSUES SUBJECT TO VOTE BY ELECTORS); SB 2282
(PROHIBITS FIRE AND EMS AGENCIES FROM BILLING FOR
RESPONDING TO AUTO ACCIDENTS); SB 360 (GROWTH
MANAGEMENT WHICH ELIMINATES TRANSPORTATION
CONCURRENCY); AND A LETTER EXPRESSING THE
BOARD'S POSITION ON HB 227 (IMPACT FEES BURDEN OF
PROOF SHIFTED TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS) THAT WAS
SIGNED BY THE GOVERNOR MAY 21 - APPROVED
MR.OCHS: Commissioners, that takes us to item 10D. 10D is a
report of Collier County 2009 legislative -- excuse me -- state
legislative priorities and Collier County legislative delegation 2009
priorities.
Ms. Debbie Wight, assistant to the county manager, will present.
MS. WIGHT: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Debbie Wight,
assistant to the county manager.
Okay. You asked at the April 28th meeting of the Board of
County Commissioners for staff to layout in a side-by-side chart the
Collier County 2009 state legislative priorities and the Collier County
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legislative delegation priorities and to -- also the supporting and
opposing legislation from the 2009 legislative session and the votes of
the legislative delegation on the bills that were passed or not passed.
I've done that on a side-by-side chart, and we can go down
through each -- each bill. I think probably the most significant bills
were that probably I'd like to jump to would be the impact fee bill that
was already signed by the governor, House Bill 227, and the one that
all seven members of the Collier County legislative delegation voted
for. That's number -- number three on your list of priorities.
And if you have specific questions, Amy Patterson is here to
address. But that is -- puts the burden of proof on local governments,
whereas before it wasn't on the local governments, and it's expected to
be more costly for local governments.
The other -- the other bill -- like I said, the governor has signed
that legislation. On May 21 st he actually ceremoniously signed the
bill here in Naples at the Arthur X building last week.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: The one that we didn't want?
MS. WIGHT: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And a big ceremony?
MS. WIGHT: Yes, yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Just to point that out to anybody else--
MS. WIGHT: Amy has some details about that if you are--
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well -- may I? Well, we're saying
the impact fee bill but we're not really telling anybody what that -- the
consequences were of getting that impact fee bill approved by our
legislators. Is somebody going to tell us whether it's good or bad?
MS. WIGHT: Probably the best one to speak about that, I'll
defer to Amy.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You mean our taxes are going up and fees
-- creating new fees in order to make up for it?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And your property insurance is
.
gOIng up.
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May 26, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Property insurance, yeah.
MS. PATTERSON: Good afternoon. For the record, Amy
Patterson. I'm the impact fee and economic development manager at
community development.
Included in your package was a pretty detailed memo outlining
some of the impacts of House Bill 227. Basically, what the bill
attempts to do is -- or what the bill does is it changes the burden of
proof or the preponderance of the evidence. It implies a
preponderance of the evidence standard to local governments where
now, or under current law, we go into court with the presumption of
correctness, meaning that the local government is presumed to be
correct, and the challenger must prove that the impact fee is unlawful
for whatever their reasons are.
Now the presumption is on the -- or the onus is on the local
government to go in and prove that the impact fee is legitimate. We
expect this could result in additional legal challenges of impact fees.
It does undermine 25 years of case law which has guided us on the
imposition of impact fees.
It is profoundly negative. There are other counties that have
expressed a great deal of concern about this bill. And like I said,
there's a good deal of detail included in my memo, but if you had
specific questions, I can -- I can answer those.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: My concern is, that since it's going
to be the burden of proof on the county, then we could look at
additional costs and litigation to try to fight our impact fees even
though we have -- do a rational nexus; is that correct?
MS. PATTERSON: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I love it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I think that government
should always have the burden of proof of its fees -- what's wrong
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with that -- instead of having to put the burden of proof on the
citizens.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No. This is the -- this is the burden
of proof on the developers, not the citizens. It's the developers.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Developers don't pay impact
fees. It's the person that buys the house that pays the impact fees.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: But -- that's correct, Commissioner.
But whenever there's a talk about impact fees, it's always that we are
putting a burden on the developers. And they don't look at it as, this is
a pass-through cost. They look at it as, you are prohibiting us and we
want to challenge you on your impact fees.
If that's the case, then Senator Bennett wouldn't be opposing our
impact fees as he does.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Madam Chair, I had the floor,
and I wasn't quite finished.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What's the difference between
rational nexus and the burden of proof of government on that study?
MS. PATTERSON: Right now, the government has to prove that
their impact fee is fair and reasonable, and what this bill intends to do
is require that the standard is raised to a preponderance of the
evidence, meaning that we have to prove more likely than not that the
impact fee is correct. That in and of itself is not the problem, rather
that it opens us to challenges that we were not subject to, where
somebody can come in and challenge your fee without basis.
N ow at least they have to have an argument. They have to prove
that we're incorrect, where under this, they can come in and say, your
fee is unfair, and we have the burden of proving why we are correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, my statement stands then.
The burden of proof should be on government, in creating or raising a
fee.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
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COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I think it's probably true that
most people in a legal suit have to demonstrate appropriate cause
before they can get a hearing before ajudge; is that not case, that there
has to be some legal basis for bringing their suit; otherwise, it could be
deemed trivial. So what is your thought about that?
MR. KLA TZKOW: I'm not losing any sleep over this bill. The
issue that I have and which the Florida Association of County
Attorneys has is that there's a presumption in the law that legislative
decisions are given deference, that you assume that when a legislative
finding is being made, that it's true.
In this one instance, the -- Tallahassee's carved out an exception
saying, well, it's true for everything except for impact fees. And the
concern is that Tallahassee's opening the door to second guess local
governments in general, that this will just be the first piece of
legislation where your decisions are not given deference.
And that's the concern that I have, and that's the concern the
Florida Association of County Attorneys has. As a practical matter, is
this going to change anything for impact fees? I don't think so.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But it clearly is a continuing trend
by the state legislature to erode home rule power and specifically to
diminish impact fees as a source of funding for infrastructure. There
really is no doubt about that because Senator Bennett has had a
consistent campaign to do that for the past five or six years.
MR. KLA TZKOW: There is a trend that's leaning towards
abolishing impact fees, yes. If not a trend, certainly it seems the
philosophy in Tallahassee may be shifting towards abolishing that.
We'll wait and see on that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay, thank you.
MS. WIGHT: If I may, it's not just a trend to abolish impact
fees. It's part of the growth management to -- to put in mobility fees
to replace impact fees.
The study is the first year to go to the legislature, by the end of
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May 26, 2009
this year, December, 2009. Mobility fees will be in place next year,
2010, in place of impact fees, so --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And there are other counties that are also
objecting to this, including the Florida Association of Counties, right?
And the reason is, for those of our audience members who aren't
aware what's -- what this really means, the impact fees right now are
what pay for our infrastructure as new people come in, and roads have
to be in place and sewer and water and landfill, all of these things,
schools. These things are being paid for, for the most part, by impact
fees.
Now, if we would go with no impact fees, as I guess they've done
in Jacksonville, what they do is they pass every cost on to all of the
residents. You have fees on your electricity, fees on your water, fees
on all of your utilities, you have fees for -- you have toll fees. They
have many, many fees, plus their taxes are raised, and that way
everybody in the whole county pays for all of the new growth.
This isn't something we've felt that our county residents really
wanted to do. They wanted growth to pay for growth, and that's why
we have been so strongly in favor of using impact fees to do just that.
And we're not alone. This is not just Collier County. This is around
the State of Florida.
So I just thought I'd explain that to audience members in case
they were questioning what we're talking about.
MS. PATTERSON: If I may, just one last point. There was an
Impact Fee Task Force appointed by the legislature in 2005, and that
task force took up a broad spectrum of issues related to impact fees.
And I think it's important to know, being that it was empowered
by the legislature to make recommendations that ultimately became an
-- the Impact Fee Act that was adopted by the legislature that the task
force voted no to a change in this -- in this statutory guidance for the
legal burden of proof for impact fees. This was debated over several
issues that many of us were in attendance in, and that no vote has now
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been overridden by the legislature, the very one that empowered that
task force.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I just read the new CBIA newsletter from
the new CBIA executive director who's come onboard, and he's come
from another state, but he's about saying -- he's repeating what some
of our developers have said about impact fees impacting the
development and so forth. So he is singing the same song.
Any other comments on any of this report? I think it was -- have
we released this to -- of course, it's in our book, but I mean, is the
public aware of this book -- this report?
MS. WIGHT: I think not all of it is -- was released with the
agenda, but we could make it available. I did want to -- I did want to
bring attention to the growth management law, which has not --
although it has been presented to the governor, he hasn't signed it yet,
and I just wanted to say that in that the -- probably the main provisions
are that it does say in it that it eliminates transportation concurrency,
which is one of our main -- our main items that we're so proud of here
in Collier County that's working, and one of the main provisions of it
is that it's not working.
And actually Randy Cohen is here. He's been waiting all day to
talk about the growth management law to you. He's written a fine
letter to the governor asking that we veto it, the Florida Association of
Counties and many counties throughout the state.
To -- another rule of the growth management law in 1985 was the
developments, the regional impact rule. That doesn't affect us like it
does the large counties. But the law overall statewide is a bad law.
We're afraid the governor is going to sign it. But we are going to --
we are asking you to sign that letter, Chairman, giving -- the board, if
you will give the chairman the approval to sign that veto letter, along
with three others, to ask for that veto.
But I'll let Randy speak about the growth Management law for a
minute or if you have -- bill, if you have questions.
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MR. COHEN: For the record, I'm Randy Cohen. I'm your
comprehensive planning director.
Debbie and Amy covered some things briefly, but I wanted to get
a little bit more specific with respect to Senate Bill 360.
First of all, there's an absolute statement in there that
transportation concurrency does not work. That's a finding of fact in a
legislative act, which is very unusual to see. Those of us in the
planning profession realize that it may not work in some areas, but it
does work in others.
What follows that is the statement with respect to trip mobility
fees, which is that the Department of Community Affairs and the
Florida Department of Transportation have to work in concert with
one another to develop a trip mobility fee methodology as well as
draft legislation that would effectuate putting that into place.
We have no idea what that's going to look like. We have no idea
what it's going to do in terms of generating revenue. There's also a
provision in there that would allow for what would, in essence, be pay
and go as you saw it before.
So you're not going to see roads in place, but you're going to see
the impacts of those, which is something that this county commission
has obviously tried to discourage with -- to your concurrency
management program. So you need to be aware that that is coming if
the governor signs this legislation.
There's other things in the bill that are -- that are -- that kind of
show where things are -- where things are transpiring with respect to
growth management.
Right now we're a financially feasible CIE.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
MR. COHEN: This pushes back the requirement to 2011, okay?
I can assure you that when we come forward with our AUIR and our
CIE, it will remain financially feasible, because otherwise we would
create a situation where we have a backlog and we're going to have to
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May 26, 2009
come up with extra money in the future. And the guideline set by the
county manager in 2006 was, even though it's not required until 2008,
staff, you do that. And we will continue to do that just.
One of the other concerns that we have is the definition of a
dense urban area. Under that, eight counties, 200 cities are dense
urban areas. In this county, Marco Island and the City of Naples are
dense urban areas, which means that they are going to, citywide, have
to create transportation concurrency exception areas.
They'll have to develop alternative standards within two years
and put those in their Comprehensive Plan. And in essence, what that
does is it's going to do away with concurrency in those cities in some
shape, manner, or form. How that transpires, we don't know, but as
we all do know, roads don't stop with geographic boundaries. That's
coming if this legislation goes into effect.
The other concern that we had, and it was in the house bill at first
and stayed there for a couple iterations, was the definition of dense
urban areas. And at one time, it included all census tracts that had a
density of a thousand people per square mile.
If that language had stayed in there, virtually the entire urban
area within Collier County would have been considered a trans- --
would have been considered a dense urban area, and we would have
had to create a transportation concurrency exception area for the
whole urban area, which would have been very devastating to our
transportation network that we've worked so hard to put into place.
I can see that issue coming up again, so I want you to be aware of
it. We've kept an eye on it. It's something that myself, and I know
Commissioner Halas, we took part in a conference call with other
representatives from Florida Association of Counties, in particular, I
think, Hillsborough and Palm Beach Counties, sharing those concerns
with respect to development intensifying in the urban areas.
Overall, from the perspective of growth management, as a
professional that's been in the -- in the State of Florida practicing since
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May 26, 2009
1983, this is really devastating to growth management in the State of
Florida, totally contrary to the 1985 Growth Management Act, and
that's why you see professionals, counties, cities, all opposing it.
So if you have any questions, I'll be more than happy to answer
those.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I just have a comment. I think all
of us understand the consequences of this legislation, but nothing is
going to be done about it. It's going to keep getting worse and worse.
You know, as you know, I've been fighting this legislation and our
legislators for four or five years over this issue, and nothing has
changed. They consistently vote against us when it comes to
concurrency and building infrastructure in Collier County and impact
fees.
Until the people of Collier County get angry, nothing is going to
happen, nothing is going to change. We're going to continue to lose
our home rule authority . We're going to continue to lose our impact
fee revenue. We're going to continue to lose our ability to manage
growth so that we have adequate infrastructure.
And the quality of life is going to deteriorate very badly in
Collier County, and nobody seems to care in Tallahassee. And until
the people here get angry enough to start telling their legislators, you
better start representing us rather than special interests in Tallahassee
or we're not going to vote for you next time, and that's the only
message that is going to cause any change in the attitude of legislators.
We can write them letters until hell freezes over, and we're not going
to make a dent in this problem. But you've heard that message before.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Commissioners, if I could add
something. For the record, Nick Casalanguida with transportation
planning.
Commissioner Coy Ie, I know they've spoken to you several times
and they've said, you know, let's change the land use now. We'll deal
with concurrency later. So the only caution I'm going to tell you
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May 26, 2009
based on what you're saying from Tallahassee is, review every Compo
Plan amendment, whether it be the RLSA coming forward or the
Immokalee CRA where you're going to have people tell you, let's just
change the zoning, and we'll deal with concurrency later . You're
going to want things in writing in place up front, and you're going to
want those commitments backed up by some sort of formal agreement
to protect you, because --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, you will recall a couple of
years ago when we discussed that, and I was being told that you
cannot apply concurrency at the time of rezone. Once we dug down
deep enough, we found out we could, in fact, apply concurrency at
rezone, and I vowed that I would always do that. And so you're
absolutely right, if anybody wants a rezone, we have to take into
consideration concurrency at that point, or otherwise we're finished.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Even more importantly in land use
change, sir, when they come in with these Compo Plan amendments to
all the commissioners, the remark that you're going to hear, and I'm
hearing it all the time, is, can we deal with this later when we go to
rezone or when we go to the SDP approval. And I say no, because
you're binding us up later on, and if mobility fee goes forward, you
won't even be talking to us. You'll be paying and going. Just to add
that to the mix.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yep.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Nick. Appreciate that.
Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. To move on. Senate Bill
2282 in regards to where communities can charge for accidents and so
on, how's that going to affect our EMS flight service?
MS. WIGHT: The flight services?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. In other words, we charge --
when we go out to an accident site and pick up injured individuals,
how is that going to affect, because --
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May 26, 2009
MS. WIGHT: Commissioner, I'll have to get the answer to that
question. I admit I don't know the answer to that. The flight service?
I know this is auto accidents --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Flight service --
MS. WIGHT: Yeah, I don't know.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Because it says that communities
can't charge to collect fees in regards to public service to citizens in
the community. And I'm wondering if helicopter flights are a public
.
serVIce.
MR.OCHS: No, Commissioner. I think your regular transport
fees for your EMS service are safe under this particular bill. What
we're concerned about, about a year ago you enacted a fee for treat on
scene but no transport to the hospital, and there's some portions of this
bill that are unclear about whether that particular fee may be affected.
So in an abundance of caution, we were suggest that the board
recommend to the governor that he veto this bill so that we don't get
into that debate about your treat on scene but no transport charge.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. The other bill that I'm
concerned about is Senate Bill 532 where they limit the amount of real
estate property assessment from 10 percent to 5 percent. And I'm
wondering how this is going to affect the counties down the road as
far as making commitments as far as infrastructure development.
Has there been anything on that?
Randy, have you studied that portion, Senate Bill 532?
MS. WIGHT: That's the property tax, moving from 10 percent to
5 percent.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Five percent, yes, the cap.
MS. WIGHT: Right now, I asked our budget department, and
they said, during now with the -- with the -- with the market the way it
is, it's kind of a zero sum. There really isn't an effect. But when the
property values go back up, there will be an effect, an impact. I have
more of a --
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER HALAS: We're supposed to be in the
background here. Appreciate your time.
MS. WIGHT: Thank you.
MR. ISAACSON: For the record, Commissioners, Mark
Isaacson, with the budget office.
There's been a -- an erosion of Save Our Homes for those who
are homesteaded. And the impact of this bill, if it becomes law -- and
I guess there's going to be a constitutional amendment on that
probably in fiscal year 2011 -- but you're going to see the erosion of
the Save Our Homes.
And I think whether purposefully or not purposefully, the
property tax burden is shifting from those who are homesteaded to
those -- for those who are non-homesteaded to those who are
homesteaded.
And as a result, you know, that -- when we say zero sum gain,
you know, taxable value drives pretty much everything. And when
they place a limit on the amount on the assessed value, the difference
between market value, just value, and assessed values, you have Save
Our Homes for those who are homesteaded, and that becomes eroded.
And then the -- on the non-homesteaded side you have the
reduction in how much theirs can increase, there's a natural shift to the
non -- to the homestead side of the equation.
So that's at least, from our short analysis in the budget office,
what we're seeing in terms of a trend. And that will play out quite
readily when you -- when we get taxable values in another week or so
and we make some presentations to you in terms of the FY 10 budget.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: The other concern I have, it died in
committee this year, but is it going to come back and haunt us, and
that's the Taber amendment?
MS. WIGHT: Yes, sir. The Taber amendment, we -- actually
the deputy county manager and I were at a meeting with Chris Holly
recently, and he said to definitely beware of the Taber amendment to
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come back. And they gave us -- it's included in your packet -- a
couple of educational sheets to keep us prepared and educated and to
warn our citizens and staff and commissioners, because it is something
that is coming back again. And that's probably one of the things.
Another item on your -- in your packet is Senate Bill 216, the one
on election -- campaign elections and local government expenditures.
That one -- the one that threatens freedom of speech, possibly, and the
ability of commissions like yourself to provide information to your
citizens.
And the Florida Supreme Court actually believes that you should
have the ability to do that and sides with you. But for our -- the
Florida Association of Counties has still not decided if they're going to
go forward and challenge that law that was passed by the legislature
by a resounding majority of legislators. But it really -- it's stifling to
county commissions in providing information to your citizens.
And that's one of the items before we -- before we leave today I
would like you to approve the -- give authority to the chairman to, if
you -- if it's okay, to write letters to the governor to veto the first
responder bill, the growth management bill, and the local government
expenditure bill, and also send a letter and let him know how we feel
about the impact fee bill, which are all prepared, the four letters.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And I think the other one is in
regards to drilling three miles offshore. I mean, we made that pretty
clear, and I'm surprised that the legislators did not either talk to
commissioners that are along the coastline and/or the tourist
development community in regards to the impact of this, but I thought
we were very clear that we would like to see that -- limit that to 25
miles offshore instead of three miles offshore.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You're surprised?
MS. WIGHT: The House -- I believe the House passed that, all
members of the House, and the Senate wouldn't even take it up. And I
don't even think the -- I don't think the governor even approved of the
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measure that came up. But if you'd like us to write a letter expressing
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think it's going to come back up.
MS. WIGHT: -- our disappointment in the House. You're right,
it's not a dead issue, because Dean Cannon is -- Representative Dean
Cannon is supporting that one.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'm going to call on Commissioner
Henning now, and then we're going to need to finish this up, because
we've got to give our court reporter a break again.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, I want to try to finish it
up. I don't have a problem with any of this except for one, and that is
for government to have free speech by using tax dollars to take a
position on issues going to --
MS. WIGHT: That's 21.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right. It's not free if we use tax
dollars.
MS. WIGHT: It's not what? I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's not free if we use tax dollars
to take a position on an issue before the ballot. And besides, when I
was in grade school -- I even looked it up to make sure that I was right
-- it's -- the Constitution was given to the people by the -- by our
forefathers. It wasn't -- our forefathers did not give it to government.
Freedom of speech is to the people. It's not given to the
government. So I think whoever made the statement that it's -- it
infringes on free speech, in my opinion, is not correct; besides the fact
is, with that analogy, I would need a warrant as a citizen to enter into
my neighbor's house, which I don't. It's government that needs a
warrant to enter somebody's house or present things.
Government doesn't have any rights. Again, Deb. It's the
citizens that have rights. So sending a letter to the governor saying
that we have rights. We have, as individuals, have rights, not as a
body. Never has.
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MS. WIGHT: I--
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Has Commissioner --
MS. WIGHT: Yeah, I don't understand.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Has the commissioner passed a
course in congressional law or constitutional law?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I went --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Is there some additional
qualification?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are you telling me that
government is given rights? It has a right to represent the citizens.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Of course they have rights. They
have rights; we exercise them every day here. We have rights to
condemn property. We have rights to purchase property. We have
rights to write contracts. We have rights of everything we're charged
with doing.
And not only that, but the Supreme Court agrees with us with
respect to this legislation. The Supreme Court has already ruled that
this legislation infringes upon the rights of local governments for
home rule.
So, you know, if you want to have a constitutional law
discussion, let's get some qualified constitutional lawyers here, and
maybe they can educate us.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well -- and, again, I said it was
my opinion. Government has a right for home rule, but it doesn't have
the right for free speech. That's the statement.
MS. WIGHT: Yeah, just to clarify. Sorry.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Deb? What were you trying--
MS. WIGHT: I just wanted to say, I said freedom of speech. I
didn't say free speech.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So now we need to clean this up
here.
MS. WIGHT: Okay.
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CHAIRMAN FIALA: And so --let's see. You need from us to
accept this report; is that what you need?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Three letters.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And to write the four letters?
MS. WIGHT: Four letters, yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Write five or six, half a dozen.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Could I write one to you?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
MS. WIGHT: The transportation administrator wanted me to
make note to you that the -- one of your -- one of your priorities was
not to raid the transportation funds, trust fund, and $120 million was
raided from the transportation trust fund.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That was in your report, too. I'm glad you
got that on the record.
MS. WIGHT: More good news.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
MS. WIGHT: Anyway. Yes, I need you to approve the
Chairman signing the four letters and also to accept the report.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- sending the letters.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And accept the report.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, accept the report.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So I have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Coletta to write the four letters we spoke of previously
as well as to accept this report, a second by Commissioner Coyle.
Any -- any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And that's a 4-1 vote. And right now
we're going to take a ten-minute break.
MS. WIGHT: Thank you, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Deb, for all your hard work.
Man, you have a lot of stuff.
(A brief recess was had.)
MR. OCHS: Ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats.
Madam Chair, you have a live mike.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay . We have six items left, I believe,
on this agenda. Let's see what we can do.
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am. The next one is a time certain for
4:30. We're running a little behind.
Item #10F
RECOMMENDATION THAT THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS (BCC) CONSIDER THE INFORMATION
REGARDING THE PUBLIC PETITION PRESENTED TO THE
BCC ON APRIL 14, 2009 BY MR. EDWARD BAKAY - MOTION
TO TAKE NO ACTION - APPROVED
MR. OCHS: 10F is the item. It's a recommendation that the
Board of County Commissioners consider the following information
regarding the public petition presented to the BCC on 14 April, 2009,
by Mr. Edward Bakay.
Stan Chrzanowski, senior engineer from engineering and
environmental services department, will present.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Good evening, Commissioners. I'm
Stan Chrzanowski.
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The entire item is summed up in your executive summary. I'm
here to answer any questions you might have. But as you could
probably tell from the summary, staff does not think we have any
duties or obligations here. I don't know what the attorney thinks. I'm
sure he thinks the same. But if you have any questions, I'll be glad to
answer them.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Commissioner Fiala?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And I appreciate this, and I
think we can probably move this thing along with a little bit of speed.
First, the original petitioner, I don't believe he's here. Is he here
or his representative here?
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: I talked to him Friday. He's up in New
York.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. Well, may I make a
suggestion that we hear what the neighbors have to say and then move
on this?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Move on this?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, move to it, but first we do
have some neighbors that want to speak, even if the petitioner isn't
here.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Very good. We have five speakers.
Would you call them, please.
MS. FILSON: Peggy Whitbeck. She'll be followed by Tim
Nance.
MS. WHITBECK: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Thank you
for the opportunity to speak. My name is Peggy Whitbeck. I'm an
officer of the Frangipani Ag. Civic Association and also a resident of
North Belle Meade.
I've lived in North Belle Meade since 1986. Frangipani, as it
currently stands, has been our road to get in and out. I do not believe
that this is an issue for the county commissioners. This actually a civil
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Issue.
Thank you very much.
MS. FILSON: Tim Nance. He'll be followed by Richard Smith.
MR. NANCE: Good afternoon, Commissioners, Ms. Chairman.
My name is Tim Nance. I've lived at a home on Frangipani Avenue
since 1985. I've owned property there since 1983. I'm active with the
Frangipani Ag. Community Civic Association.
Frangipani A venue, the road generating the dust that's causing
the petitioner to come to you, has been in its current alignment and in
continuous use by agricultural issues for over 40 years, ever since
Gulf America Land Corporation built Golden Gate Estates and the
drainage system referred to commonly now as the Golden Gate main
canal.
It's an unpaved limerock road. It's been built by the residents and
by the ago users in the area. It supports the businesses there, which
include greenhouses, nurseries, groves, stables, tree farms, grazing
interests, as well as residents and rural homesteads.
When dry, it's like any other unpaved road in Southwest Florida,
it's dusty, very dusty. My house is 300 feet on the south side of the
road. Mr. Bakay's is 300 feet on the north side of it.
The residences and businesses there have no expectation of
paved roads in the area. They never have. I thoroughly expect the
day I die it will be an unpaved, dusty road.
The petitioner, Mr. Bakay, moved into the Eastern Golden Gate
Estates many, many miles east of County Road 951, Collier
Boulevard, and moved next to an agricultural dusty road. He then
began complaining about dust and agricultural traffic.
It's a private road. I personally do not feel like it's a county issue.
It's a property rights issue that will probably be settled in court. And I
will say that preexisting agricultural users and uses are protected by
Florida Statutes precisely from these sorts of conflicts.
Thank you.
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MS. FILSON: Richard Smith. He'll be followed by Mike
Sullivan.
MR. SMITH: Commissioners, you've been here all day, and I
know you're bored to death, and I want to thank you for giving us the
opportunity to talk to you a little bit.
That area is North Belle Meade, as you well know. I guess I'm
going to take this opportunity -- unlike Tim, I don't believe that road is
or -- by everybody considered to be just a dirt road that's going to stay
dirt. I think it needs to be paved.
I think also that we need to be giving some consideration to the
possibility of extending the plans in the planting that's been done for
North Belle Meade -- you know, you have the sending area and the
receiving areas. That's supposedly imposed on everybody as a
voluntary thing. The net result is that everything is just kind of up in
the air. Nobody knows exactly what's happening.
What a wonderful place that area is for the possibility of
developing green planting of a -- in smart-growth type of planting
with green energy, like they're doing up in Badcock (sic) Ranch. Just
a thought. Thought I'd leave you with that, since I agree with
everything else in terms of the use of that road. I don't think there's
any problem in terms of the legalities of it.
But thank you for your attention.
MS. FILSON: Mike Sullivan. He'll be followed by Ashraf
F awzy / Anderson.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you. My name is Mike Sullivan. I'm
the chief financial officer for Gargulio, Inc. We own property at 510
Frangipani. It's a greenhouse operation. Been there approximately 25
years. We obviously use the road.
I know Mr. Bakay has some dust issues. He actually contacted
our company, and I, along with Tim Nance, met with him on
numerous occasions. We did offer to buy his strip of land. We also
offered to put up hedges for him thinking that would stop some of it.
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We offered to put sprinklers along the edge to try to wet it down some
in dry times, but he refused all those offers.
We did prepare signs and build signs for him and put them up
that said, drive slow, no dust, you know, to try to get people to slow
down for him.
It's our position, like everybody else, that it's now turned -- it's a
private issue and it will probably end up being settled in the courts.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Ashraf Fawzy/Anderson.
MR. FA WZY: Good afternoon, Commissioner. My name is
AshrafFawzy, and I'm the president of the Fawzy Aquaculture in
Frangi pani.
We just started doing a fish farm out there, and we've been trying
to improve the road. And most of the neighborhood, they very happy
with whatever we did so far, and we didn't have any complaint.
The dust issue, we've been trying to work with it, with Mr.
Bakay, by basically watering the roads every time we go in and out. I
talked to him in person, and I assured him that we will be -- keep
doing that, and I think that's one of the best things that we can do over
there.
And we trying to do our best, and if there is anything that we can
do to help with the whole community, we'd be more than happy to do
it.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: That was your last speaker.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Fine. If I may--
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Certainly.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I don't even think we need a
motion. I believe we all recognize this is, if anything, it might be a
civil issue, nothing to do with the county.
The county offered -- did its due diligence to make sure that we
had no responsibilities in this case.
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May 26, 2009
We don't have to make a finding on this, do we?
MR. KLATZKOW: You can make a motion of no action, no
board action.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Make a motion for no action.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion and a second for
no action.
Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: 5-0.
Item #10E
FOR THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO
CONSIDER REVISING THE NAME OF THE CODE
ENFORCEMENT DEPARTMENT TO CODE COMPLIANCE
DEPARTMENT - MOTION SUPPORTING STAFF'S
RECOMMENDA TION - APPROVED
MR.OCHS: Commissioner, that brings us to 10E,
recommendation for the board to consider revising the name of the
code enforcement department to code compliance department.
Ms. Diane Flagg, your director of code enforcement, will present.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to deny.
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May 26, 2009
MS. FLAGG: Now, don't be mean.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'm going to get you.
MS. FLAGG: Commissioners, Diane Flagg, director of code
enforcement department. And we've pretty much summarized, but
basically what we found in reviewing county ordinances, Florida
Statutes, certifications and all, that they use the term code enforcement
when referring to the code enforcement department; however, I will
tell you that the mission statement for the department has been
revised.
The activities of the department is focused on working with the
community to achieve compliance, and we would like to continue to
focus on that through our activities and through our operational
procedures and working to obtain compliance voluntarily with our
community members.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: My motion stands. Motion to
deny. Wasn't the proposal to change the name?
MR. OCHS: No.
MS. FLAGG: No.
MR.OCHS: Staff recommendation is to maintain code
enforcement.
MS. FLAGG: Maintain the name.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, that's what I'm saying. It
says, consider revising the name of the code enforcement department
to the code compliance department. I made a recommendation to
deny changing the name.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: To the code compliance?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Is this too complex for everybody
to follow?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, it was. It's late in the day.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: It's a long day.
MR. OCHS : We're looking at the staff recommendation, sir, not
the title, staff --
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COMMISSIONER COYLE: Not the title of the subject that
we're considering?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Right.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: All right. Then whatever it takes to
keep the name the same; how does that sound?
MR. OCHS: Sounds great.
MS. FLAGG: That's staff recommendation.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I have a motion on the floor to do
whatever it takes to keep the name the same by Commissioner Coy Ie
and a second by Commissioner Halas. And Commissioner Coletta has
a little light on here.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I sure do. You know, I'm really
at a loss. I mean, so the certificate that they issue says code
enforcement that they receive, the professional certificate. The state
and national organization, they use code enforcement; the Florida state
and the county ordinances reference that.
Is there anything in all that that still would prevent us from using
the word compliance, what Diane Flagg just admitted is the direction
they're trying to be identified with? Is there anything there that legally
prohibits us from doing it?
MR. KLATZKOW: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I mean, the argument is
extremely weak in this. If you go down through it, numerous
references to the whole thing goes back to code compliance.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Call the question.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. You know what, Commissioner
Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I think that people are -- you know, code
enforcement is now taking a new turn toward code compliance.
They've given, you know, new direction to their staff members, and I
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May 26, 2009
think they ought to be allowed to carry that forward so that code
enforcement almost means code compliance and yet still use the word
that is recognized by everybody throughout the State of Florida. Not
only that, then we don't have to spend any money changing anything
around, to be honest with you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, that's another argument,
too, if I may. There shouldn't be a penny that has to be spent. Why
do we have to buy new business cards, why do we have to buy new
stationery? We don't. We use up the existing supply. It has nothing
more. Trucks, you don't replace the name on the truck. You leave it
on there till that day you turn it in for the auction. When new
inventory is added to it, you do it at that point in time.
I'm just saying that I'd have no problem with the motion and the
second. I can understand it. But the argument is extremely weak.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Here's the argument. When Ms.
Flagg is -- moves on to a different department, they're going to go
back to the code enforcement and not compliance.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No. I already got that covered.
We're going to combine EMS with code enforcement. Make them
one. I'm sorry I didn't share that with you sooner.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We have a motion on the floor and a
second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
MS. FLAGG: Thank you, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All right, fine. That's a 4-1 vote. Thank
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May 26, 2009
you.
And we go on to lOG.
Item #10G
POLICY DIRECTION CONCERNING THE ACCEPTANCE OF A
PRIVATE DONATION OFFER OF $10,529 FROM THE PELICAN
BAY PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION, INC. TO OPEN THE
V ANDERBIL T BEACH BRANCH LIBRARY ON FRIDAYS,
FROM JUNE 1,2009 THROUGH SEPTEMBER 30,2009-
MOTION TO APPROVE DONATION - APPROVED
MR.OCHS: lOG is a recommendation the Board of County
Commissioners provide policy direction concerning the acceptance of
a private donation offer of $1 0,529 from the Pelican Bay Property
Owners Association, Incorporated, to open the Vanderbilt Beach
Library on Fridays from June 1,2009, through September 30,2009.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'd like to --
MS. FILSON: Two speakers.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: -- put something on the record
before we go farther, okay?
My concern is that there was an individual from Pelican Bay that
. came to my office and asked how I felt about this, and I said that I felt
that what needed to be done is that this need -- that person needed to
come before the board on public petition and state his case so that we
could discuss this.
And I also recommended that person go to the county attorney,
and I believe the county attorney said the same thing; is that correct?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: This individual did not take those
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steps. And I don't have any problem with this, but I -- the only
problem I do have is that -- what do we do with the other branch
libraries that may not be as fortunate to go out and raise money and --
to stay open?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I can answer that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Turn them into senior friendship
houses.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So that's my concern as far as -- it
just -- it wasn't -- it wasn't vetted in the way that I thought it should be
where it was brought before the board and it could be -- then we could
have had an open discussion and decided that it was the right way,
because you've got other branch libraries involved, so --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you for being concerned with the
other branch libraries.
Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Representing the poorer
area of the county, what do you want to call it, the underserved area of
the county, I can tell you that I don't have a problem with this for one
simple reason is, as we cut back on our libraries, we're doing it
because of budget restraints. This is new-found money. Even though
it's directed to that particular library, that library stays open for the
public itself.
And as we go forward, if other items like this come up, it still is a
stress reliever in the fact that it would be open hours. If somebody
absolutely has to go to the library, they could travel to this library for
those hours. So I don't feel in any way denied by it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Marla, did you want to say anything
along this line? Do you have --
MS. RAMSEY: Absolutely not.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- have a problem with hiring people
part-time and then only for the short time? According to the staff
report, you didn't.
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May 26, 2009
MS. RAMSEY: No, we do not. We would hire them as
temporary employees that would have an employment until the end of
September.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion on the floor and I
have a second, and two speakers.
MS. FILSON: Laurel Paster. She'll be followed by Jim
Hoppensteadt.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: He's waiving.
MS. FILSON: He's waiving?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, waive back.
MS. PASTER: Thank you. My name is Laurel Paster, and I live
at 64 4th Street, which is four blocks south of Bonita Beach Road, and
one and a half blocks west of Vanderbilt Drive.
I'm just saying that so you'll know that people who support this
are not necessarily just from Pelican Bay. This is a whole community
support, and I'm thrilled that Pelican Bay was able to come up with the
event and the funding to do so.
I'm also representing the Advocates for Vanderbilt Library,
which is a very small organization, and we're the new kids on the
block, but there are other ones, too. The North Naples -- I don't know
whether it's the alliance or the homeowners association, but it is quite
large, and they, too, have been supporting this.
And we as the advocates have been getting petitions signed. And
we have signatures on over a thousand -- we have over a thousand
signatures on our petitions indicating that we -- first of all, we want to
keep the library open, but we also wanted to see to it that the hours
were maintained.
And we got those signatures in a little over three weeks toward
the end of April and the beginning of May. And they came from all
kinds of people, not just people who live in the Pelican Bay area. And
they came from people who are foreigners in this country who visit
the library, they came from people who work, say, in some of the
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May 26, 2009
hotels near the library and have to use the computers, say, to get
resumes for jobs, et cetera.
I just want to say that this is a whole community effort, and we
really are behind that library and the librarians and the staff, and we
love it. It's a treasure. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I have one question.
MS. PASTER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: We -- about three miles away we
have the district library. Have you used that one?
MS. PASTER: Yeah, sure.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Good, good.
MS. PASTER: But excuse me. I'm seven miles north and--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I understand.
MS. PASTER: -- and west, so that's going to mean, what, it's
going to mean more -- ten, 12 miles?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: If you're seven miles, it's ten miles,
yep.
MS. PASTER: Okay. All right. And what about the people,
say, who are on the beach, the people who are further north than I am
and further west?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No. I'm not here to -- I just asked
if you use that library. That's all I asked, the main library.
MS. PASSIDOMO: Yes, I have.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Good. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion on the floor and a
second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
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May 26, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That is a 5-0. Move on to?
Item #101
AN AGREEMENT FOR SALE AND PURCHASE WITH THE
NAPLES LODGE 2010 BENEVOLENT AND PROTECTIVE
ORDER OF THE ELK'S OF THE USA, INC., FOR THE
PURCHASE OF THE ELK'S LODGE PROPERTY - APPROVED
MR. OCHS: That takes us to 101. It is a recommendation to
approve an agreement for sale and purchase with the Naples Lodge
2010 Benevolent and Protective Order of the Elks of the U.S.A., Inc.,
for the purchase of the Elks Lodge property.
MS. McLAUGHLIN: Good evening, Commissioners. For the
record, my name is Marlene McLaughlin. I'm with the real property
management section, department of facilities management.
And you are familiar with this item. It's come before you. And
we're here today to seek your approval for the agreement for sale and
purchase of the Elks Lodge property.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Coy Ie and a second by Commissioner Henning and
Halas. We'll try Henning.
And any discussion?
Yes, Commissioners Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. Just briefly, I'm going to
repeat the same question I've repeated many times already. There's no
other way that we can do it other than to purchase this facility to be
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May 26, 2009
able to house these employees?
MS. McLAUGHLIN: I'm going to defer to my director, Skip
Camp.
MR. CAMP: Skip Camp, for the record. We have looked at
other options, Commissioner. This is the last major element of the
county manager's plan to get out of leased space. It represents a
significant savings. The payback is very good for a piece of real
estate.
We are looking at some alternative areas like the -- working from
home, those kind of things, when it's appropriate. But we are looking
at all the options. We feel this is the right thing to do at this time.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. And it's only going to be
a matter of time before we have numerous employees working out of
their homes, and they'll probably find that they're much more
productive doing it. But be it as it may. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Boy, and I know that the supervisor of
elections would also love this building, by the way. I'll just throw that
.
In.
MR.OCHS: Noted. Thank you, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You're welcome.
Okay. We have a motion on the floor and a second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's a 5-0.
Item #10K
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May 26, 2009
RECOMMEND THAT THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS APPROVE TDC CATEGORY "A" GRANT
APPLICATIONS FROM THE CITY OF NAPLES, THE CITY OF
MARCO ISLAND AND COLLIER COUNTY FOR FY-09/10 IN
THE AMOUNT OF $4,377,336.00 AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN GRANT AGREEMENTS AFTER
COUNTY ATTORNEY'S APPROVAL - APPROVED
MR. OCHS: That takes to us to 10K, which was normally 16D7.
That is a recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners
approves TDC Category A grant applications from the City of Naples,
the City of Marco Island, and Collier County for fiscal year '09-'010 in
the amount of$4,377,336, and authorize that the Chair sign grant
agreements after county attorney's approval.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I pulled this, Mr. McAlpin. The
perplexity of this is they were supposed to build a bathroom for public
access. It was stated that boaters could use this, but where the area is
showing where the bathroom is going to be, I'll be damned if any
motorized boat will go up there to use that.
MR. McALPIN: To set the location, this is the Tigertail Park
right here, this is the area where we generally have boaters park their
boats right in through here, and this is the Hideaway Beach picnic area
right in through here, which is identified as the location for the
bathroom facilities.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Can boats get in there?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yep.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: How can boats get in there?
MR. McALPIN: I'm not sure if boats can get in here. They can't
-- typically what you would do, you'd have to come in through here
and come in this way. I think this is a shallow estuary at this point in
time, and I am not sure what level of boating would happen in through
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May 26, 2009
here. Most of the boating is out here where they park their boats on
the back end of Sand Dollar Island. I will have -- so this is what is
proposed for that location at this point.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do we have a speaker on that? Two
speakers?
Did you want to speak before the speakers?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. I got a question.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Before the speakers?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I got a question for Gary.
It was my understanding, when the people from Hideaway Beach
came in and were looking for funding, that they were going to
construct the bathroom for people who might want to go down to the
beach area in this general area. How far is it from Tigertail Beach or
where the property line is to this -- where this bathroom is proposed?
Do you have any --
MR. McALPIN: I'm going to ask Bruce Anderson if he has that
exact dimension at this point.
Marla, you have -- do you have that figure? It is -- it is a walk. I
believe it's close to a 20-minute walk at this point in time. But
Tigertail's right here.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Because what we were looking at
was -- or what I had in mind that this was going to be somewhat closer
to the vicinity of Tigertail Beach where people could go down there
and use that beach and then have a bathhouse.
MR. McALPIN: There has been a number of discussions about
the location. This was the location that -- this 10- -- we had originally
proposed this location in through at this point here. That location, for
a number of reasons, was not acceptable to the Hideaway Beach
organization. And this location here was their picnic location where
they have -- where the Hideaway Beach people will come in here for a
picnic and shelters and recreational uses, and they felt that this was a
better location for the bathroom facility.
Page 21 7
May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So is this bathroom facility for
their people, or is this for the people that are going to be using that
beach?
MR. McALPIN: This is for the public access for the boaters and
public access -- or public facilities for the boaters and public facilities
for the people that would be walking from Tigertail.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aren't they also going to be building
picnic benches and things in that area from what I was told, kind of
making it a park-like setting so it isn't just a bathroom?
MR. McALPIN: I can't comment on that. I know that what
we've talked about is a bathroom, one-bathroom facility, one
family-type bathroom facility at this location.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Would you like to call the
speakers?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: One story?
MS. FILSON: I have two speakers, Madam Chairman. The first
being Jim Hoppensteadt, and he's ceding his time to Bruce, maybe
because he's gone. Bruce Anderson, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Oh, you wanted to speak?
MR. ANDERSON: For the record, my name is Bruce Anderson
from the Roetzel & Andress law firm. I'm the attorney for the
Hideaway Beach district. It's a special district in the City of Marco
Island.
The -- I was not privy at a meeting that your staff and I believe
Commissioner Fiala had where they discussed where to locate the
bathroom.
And I've taken the liberty of reviewing the minutes when this was
approved last June, and it was very specific that it was to serve the
folks who walk around from Tigertail Beach. And this was -- this is
an area that's already, I think, got some utility service to it and isn't
burdened with a conservation easement.
And I can tell you that the district has relied on this approval and
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May 26, 2009
spent money for engineering, for the T -groins, for the sand itself, and
the rest room facility.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Is that it, Bruce?
MR. ANDERSON: I'll be happy to try to answer any questions,
if there are any.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. You didn't even take your own
time, much less Jim Hoppensteadt's.
MR. ANDERSON: And correct me if I'm wrong, isn't this more
of a ministerial approval and it's just a budget carryover because they
didn't spend the money last year?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I believe so.
MR. ANDERSON: Because they'd been caught in permitting.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah. Yes, I believe you're right about
that.
Okay. Let's see, Commissioner Coyle, Commissioner Coletta,
and Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I remember very clearly
when this was first brought up. We were having a discussion about
how far people would have to walk from the public parking area
around to the beaches to use them, and the board was concerned that
there were no facilities for people to use, and with no facilities for
people to use, there's no likelihood they'd walk that far to use the
beach.
So we were discussing putting facilities somewhere so that
people could go to those beaches and enjoy them if they wanted to do
that. And so I have walked to that distance, and I know that it's
possible you have to wade through some water. There's a little channel
coming through there that you have to wade through, but it's not a big
deal.
And if people are inclined to walk along the beach to go over and
visit the area further to the northeast, then it's located in a convenient
spot. I mean, that's the place it should be.
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May 26, 2009
And so I remember that discussion very clearly, and we must
have done that two years ago. No, this discussion was at least two
years ago. They might have allocated the money one year ago, but the
discussion about what to do about that, because there was a debate
about why we were spending public money on T -groins and
replenishing beaches and all that sort of stuff if people couldn't get
into it.
And the argument was, well, they can't -- it's too far for them to
walk because there are no facilities there. So someone said, okay, let's
put some facilities there, and so this is the outcome of that. And it
very well might be that it was budgeted one year ago, but the
discussion took place a long time ago.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Yeah, I think that was Commissioner Coletta who said that. I
think they're even calling it Coletta's bathroom.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Coletta's can.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Oh, man. I'm telling you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: All the respect I get.
Bruce, help me with this a bit. Can you go up there behind Jeff
and touch on there -- I think I see it over to the far left where Tigertail
is, correct?
Now, the beach that -- the prime beach that the boaters come up
on, everything is all the way around to the other side, isn't it?
MR. ANDERSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So the place you're looking to
put it is about half the way to the real beaches. I mean, from what it
looks like, that's not a place you could pull a boat up on. I mean, just
judging by the sand and how it looks. It looks like it's a pretty shallow
area.
It's not at all what I envisioned when we started this whole
process, I got to be honest with you. I really -- I thought this was
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May 26, 2009
going to be something people could beach their boats over there,
because the truth of the matter is, not that many people do the walk,
but there are quite a few boaters that pull into the prime waters down
farther. That's where I thought the whole thing was going to be, not in
some desolate area close to Tigertail Beach. I'm not at all happy with
it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Who's next?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You are, but did you have a --
MR. ANDERSON: Well, I just have to read from the minutes.
What are they supposed to do when they come around all the way
from Tigertail Beach and they walk the distance? They get there, and
when nature calls, at that point in time, they've got a real problem. So
you're limited by the size of your bladder, you might say, so it
becomes an issue -- becomes a real issue. And it was all with regard
to pedestrian traffic.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I didn't know you were
going to measure this bladder-wise.
But the truth of the matter is, Bruce, I mean, think about it for a
minute. You get halfway there, you've got a restroom break, you go
the rest of the way, you've got to go way back again to catch the
restroom.
I don't think we gained anything by this. I mean, I don't see how
you could interpret the -- that particular statement to mean that's where
the location would be. I mean, it's -- it just doesn't meet the need. It
falls way short.
MR. ANDERSON: But if we put it over there where the boaters
come In --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah.
MR. ANDERSON: -- then we would be hearing complaints that
it's too far from Tigertail.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You might, but the thing is is
that people are going to make that long walk, and when they get to the
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May 26, 2009
beach they're going to use, that's where the bathroom should be, not
halfway. It doesn't make any sense other than the fact that that was a
convenient out-of-the-way place to put it.
I remember originally when we were going forward they rejected
the idea, then they came forward, and I think what it was in the back
of their mind, well, we could go put it over here in this isolated thing,
no one will have to look at it. And the truth of the matter is, I don't
see who will ever use it. I'm not at all pleased. I'm not going to vote
for it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Tigertail already has a bathroom
facility, thank you very much.
I remember the discussion, and in order to get Commissioner
Coletta's approval, it was that you located the bathroom there. They
always tried to -- they sold the issue that there was going to be public
access for the people who have boats.
And great, you know, I went there one time to see if they would
kick me off with my boat. They never did. That's the only way you
can get there, unless it's a moon tide, low tide, you can get there by
walking miles and miles around the corner.
They have a clubhouse there. Why can't you open that facility up
to the general public which already has a bathroom? Put a sign out
there, public bathroom? And let the people use that. That is where the
renourishment is going to be taking place.
Mr. Anderson?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Could I ask a question and just point?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Probably won't even get ten
people a day.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I don't know if I can reach or not, but --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. McAlpin can. He's got long
arms.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Can boaters gets up to this point up here,
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May 26, 2009
over here? Yes. Can boaters get there?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Can they walk from there to the
bathroom?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: As long as it's low tide. Don't
have a high tide or medium tide because you're going to be walking,
you know, above your waist, and at that point, do you really need a
bathroom?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I was under the impression that
when we were discussing this, we didn't bring anything -- bring
anything into play about boating. It was more concerned about people
who were on foot walking from Tigertail Beach. I don't think there
was anything brought in the -- is there anything in the minutes in
regards to boating? I didn't --
MR. ANDERSON: We're not tying the bathroom in with the
boating.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Oh, I don't recall that. That's why
I'm asking. It was strictly people that venture from Tigertail and head
along that beach, there was no facilities for them.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's right. That's the way I
remember it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Let's call the motion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coletta, then--
MR. ANDERSON: There is a reference in here about a boat in
Commissioner Coletta's comments. It says there's supposed to be a
tie-in, a tie-in with some sort of access. A little more than just the
privileged few that may own a boat that can get there.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Wow, well put. I was a lot
younger.
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May 26, 2009
MR. ANDERSON: You know, you're right about it was
primarily about the pedestrian walkway from Tigertail.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Right.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Once again, you're not going to
recreate in that particular area. You're going to be in transit to where
you're going to go, which would be farther around the side to where
you've got more open waters, the type of thing that you would enjoy
to partake.
You're not going to walk hundreds of yards back to use the
bathroom. It just doesn't make any sense. It should be at the end
destination, not in the middle part of the whole thing where people
aren't going to stay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Second.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Or -- okay. I have a motion to approve
by Commissioner Coyle, a second by Commissioner Halas.
Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
Opposed, like sign?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, 3-2. Thank you.
Item #1 OL
AMENDED AND RESTATED DEVELOPER CONTRIBUTION
AGREEMENT BETWEEN MARBELLA LAKES ASSOCIATES,
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May 26, 2009
LLC, HEREIN REFERRED TO AS "DEVELOPER, AND
COLLIER COUNTY, HEREIN REFERRED TO AS COUNTY,
FOR THE CONVEYANCE OF RIGHT -OF - WAY WITHIN THE
GREEN BOULEVARD EXTENSION CORRIDOR AND ALSO
APPROVE A MODIFICATION TO THE PRIOR AGREEMENT -
APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Commissioner, that takes us to item 10L, which
was formally Item 16B 10, which is a recommendation to approve the
amended and restated developer contribution agreement between
Marbella Lakes Associates, LLC, herein referred to as developer, and
Collier County, herein referred to as county, for the conveyance of
right-of-way within the Green Boulevard extension corridor and also
approve a modification to the prior agreement.
Mr. Nick Casalanguida, your transportation planning director,
will present.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Nick, before you present.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You've addressed my concerns
on the issue. There's only one other concern, which hopefully we can
address after the public speaker maybe.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Are there any public speakers on this?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes. We have one public speakers. Sue?
MS. FILSON: Bill Confoy.
MR. CONFOY: I'm Bill Confoy, for the record, from
Wyndemere, and -- familiar faces.
Just wanted to address the fact that, you know, the people of
Wyndemere and basically all the people who are north of Golden Gate
and south of Pine Ridge Road who are currently using that new
Marquesa Plaza, which is lightly used now but even more so in the
future -- if you want to get out of that place and you want to return
back south on Livingston Road, you have to get out into Pine Ridge
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May 26, 2009
Road and make a U-Turn into some pretty heavy traffic.
And we've been looking forward to the fact that when the
Whippoorwill extension is put in, that's going to take away that
problem, which we believe is a safety problem. Anytime you've go to
turn into traffic, you create a safety problem.
So we just did not want to see this thing -- the whole thing
change and go away. We wanted to at least see something that would
assure us that it wouldn't always be built at the convenience of
somebody, but it would at least be on a plan, hopefully a short plan,
maybe the five-year plan or if you have something less, that would
eventually see this thing to fruition so that we could be able to use that
access back to Livingston Road. That was our concern.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
MR. CONFOY: And I think it's a concern of everybody that
lives on that road, not just Wyndemere, which is -- which abuts
Marbella.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The real issue here is it was a
DCA that the developer was going to build the road, connect the
east/west Whippoorwill to the north/south Whippoorwill. But Nick is
concerned about funds not being able to complete Davis Boulevard
and Oil Well Road.
I understand that, but if we can make some kind of commitment
to put it in the five-year CIE, if funds are available to make that
connection, I think that would address some concerns.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: For the record, Commissioner, we
have three capital projects, Oil Well Road, Davis, and Collier
Boulevard, and right now with the funding scenario, we've prioritized
those three projects. I want to get this built. I worked hard on the
DCA to get this done. So I've been pushing our boss, Norman, to
include it in that five-year plan.
The problem with including it in that five-year plan without
being able to balance the books, that's the issue. And I think what our
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May 26, 2009
goal is is to get these three projects out the door, get the bids to come
in and see where the dollars are.
And we update that five-year plan every year. By the time we
come back to do that the following year, we know where those three
projects stand because we'll put them out to bid. There'll be an
opportunity there to bring it back in the five-year work program at that
point in time.
So the procurement is for us to do that road project. It's a
valuable connection. We'd just like to get those three projects that are
sitting at the doorstep out the door and get a feel for what those dollars
will come in at.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: With that, Madam Chair, if you
don't mind, I'll make a motion to approve with that commitment, and I
appreciate your patience.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion to approve with
the commitment that Nick just stated. This is -- this motion was made
by Commissioner Henning and seconded by Commissioner Coletta.
Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: 5-0.
Item #11
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May 26, 2009
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We go on to public comments.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Thank you.
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am. Item 11, public comments.
MS. FILSON: Madam Chairman, I do have one, Marcia
Cravens.
MS. CRAVENS: Hi. This speaks to what I addressed earlier
with an em ail that went out to Jeanne Findlater about the lOA agenda
item.
I ran home and got the email, so I have it. It is dated. There's
three emails in the stream that there are dated May 20th. The subject
is the BCC meeting, the May 26th agenda.
The first message is from Jeanne Findlater to Commissioner Fiala
requesting that the consent agenda items of 16Dl, 2, and 3, be moved
to regular agenda.
Commissioner Fiala responded by saying, already done. It will
be discussed in the afternoon after one p.m. There is already a one
p.m. time-certain item. And Jeanne responds, Donna, you're
awesome, wow, and thank you.
And so, this was sent out, distributed widely. And I know there
were some people that wanted to speak to this item, myself being one
of them. And so once again, I would like to ask that that item be
brought back. You are going to have Clam Bay items on the next
agenda two weeks from now.
I would ask that you bring this item back as well, because there
were many people that were informed that it would be on after one
p.m.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Which item?
MS. CRAVENS: lOA, which was moved up from the consent
agenda for today's agendas.
MR. OCHS: It wasn't moved up, ma'am. It was published as
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May 26, 2009
lOA in your regular printed agenda.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah, see. And I made the mistake
thinking we would be so busy this morning that we wouldn't be able to
see it till this afternoon, but that was the mission statement; is that
correct?
MS. CRAVENS: Yes, ma'am. It was the mission statement and
the work plans.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You want to just make your statement
now? We've already voted, and even though -- and I don't think your
statement would change our vote, quite frankly, because we voted
solidly in favor of. But if you'd like to make your statement now, go
ahead.
MS. CRAVENS: I don't know if I'm the only person that would
have wanted to address it. I believe that one of the technical experts,
Kathy Worley, might have wanted to address that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: She was here.
MS. CRAVENS: I don't think she was here at the time that lOA
was addressed, but I don't know because --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Marcia, I don't think -- I don't think that
would change our vote. If you want to say something --
MS. CRAVENS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- you don't have too much time left, but
go ahead.
MS. CRAVENS: Okay. Essentially -- and I don't have my
prompts here with me, but essentially several issues.
The primary one is that the whole point of the Clam Bay
Advisory Committee was to have a comprehensive look at the Clam
Bay estuary and to come back with a comprehensive management
plan. And instead, what happened was, a mission statement with a list
of projects. No conceptual model, no comprehensive view, which
would inform and guide the projects.
So what happened was, there was a list of projects that went to
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May 26, 2009
this committee with strong recommendation for them to approve, and
that's what's been brought here today.
So I think fundamentally, this Clam Bay Advisory Committee
not having a conceptual model was a problem.
You know, one of the subcommittees that should have been the
first committee to me was for the estuarine wildlife habitat and the
mangrove maintenance, which are the -- that's the biomass of the
whole system, and that hasn't even met. You know, it hasn't even
been -- you don't have an overall view which should have been formed
and guided all these other things.
So that's my -- what I wanted to bring into the consideration of it.
There were other considerations. That was a primary one. Also the
definition, which was supposed to be the NRP A --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You're going to have to start winding it
up, please.
MS. CRAVENS: Okay. The definition of the area was agreed
upon as the NRP A and yet this statement indicates that it includes
interconnecting canals from Vanderbilt Beach Road to the Seagate
community. There are no interconnecting canals, you know. So I
think, fundamentally, even the description of the NRP A has some
problems.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
MS. CRAVENS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. No other speakers, Sue?
MS. FILSON: No, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Then-
Item #15
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
MR. OCHS: That takes us to Item 15, staff and commission
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May 26, 2009
general communications.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do you have anything to talk to us about,
Leo?
MR.OCHS: Just three quick things. The first one, I wanted to
call Mr. Schmitt to the podium and give you a quick briefing on some
of the plans that he's putting in place to deal with his continuing
budget shortfalls and how that may affect his schedule for the balance
of the fiscal year, and his services. Joe?
MR. SCHMITT: Commissioners, again, for the record, Joe
Schmitt, good afternoon.
Leo asked me just to inform you, we've been discussing for a
while ways to reduce the impact that the staff -- meeting payroll is
having, due to insufficient revenue, primarily both to the slowdown in
work activity and, of course, the issue with the fees in general.
I'm to implement a four-day, 32-hour workweek. I'm looking at
starting that on June 12th for all 131- and 113-funded activities.
That's primarily my building department, engineering review,
environmental review, and zoning.
As you know -- or you may not be aware, but over the last 18
months or so, I've reduced the staff by about 112 positions. This next
change will impact 111 of the 188 positions I have remaining in the
division. Compo planning, code enforcement, utility regulations, and
some other supporting staff will continue to work a regular 40-hour
week. They're general fund activities.
But the -- as I noted, the 113 and 131, which are fee driven, I'm
looking at reducing the work -- workweek at least for the next five
weeks, and that will depend on, frankly, our discussions during the
budget hearings, which I'm going to be talking about some ways we're
looking at rectifying that situation.
So I just wanted to make sure you were aware. My actions will
have no impact on the fire review section. The fire review section will
continue to work. I don't know if Mr. Riley adjusted his hours, but
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May 26, 2009
they will remain open.
The plan is that I will be closing the front lobby on Friday to just
-- in order to reduce the impact of meeting payroll and -- based on the
reduction in revenue.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So will there be a notice that goes out that
says the front lobby will be closed on Fridays?
MR. SCHMITT: Yes, ma'am. There will be a press release. I've
already coordinated with CBIA, with the DSAC. We've been talking
about this several days -- several months, the impact. If I don't take
this action, I'm -- I have no option but to reduce the staff by probably
another 18 positions. And we then are impacting significantly what I
would call my brain trust and, frankly, the ability to provide the
needed support that you need.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Henning? Then I
don't know how they line up after that.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: He was next.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Schmitt?
MR. SCHMITT: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is it my understanding that you
retain employees based upon seniority?
MR. SCHMITT: I retain employees -- based on the layoff and
the FTE that were released?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right.
MR. SCHMITT: Was based on a matrix. Primarily had to do
with HR developing the rules, and seniority was one of those, yes.
There are other activities, evaluations. And, of course, the first -- the
first way anyone was eliminated was based on positions that were
either -- deemed a duplication. Example, if I had three people who
could do landscape reviews, that position -- one of those positions was
targeted as reduction. So it was based on operational evaluations and
then based on the guidance from HR as far as how reductions were
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implemented.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The -- are you considering on
your four-day -- your four-day workweek, is closing on Friday?
MR. SCHMITT: Friday, yes, sir. The last two months I've had
rolling furloughs where everybody had a week off, mandatory 40-day
-- or 40-hour layoff, and the rolling furloughs, all it did is pass the
burden off to those who stayed, so the proposal is to close on Friday.
Other counties have done this. Several building departments and
zoning departments have done this throughout the state in order to
reduce the financial burden on the organization.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are you going to seek industry
input on what day to close?
MR. SCHMITT: I already talked to the industry, and they
recommend Friday. Many, many engineering firms and consulting
firms are closed on Friday, have gone to a four-day workweek with
Friday closed.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I understand that, but you still
have contractors out there working.
MR. SCHMITT: Yes, sir. I do understand that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Did you talk to CBIA about it?
MR. SCHMITT: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And they said Friday?
MR. SCHMITT: They clearly understood and have voiced no
objection. The only thing they were concerned with was contractor
licensing. And--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And you'll have somebody on
call for that?
MR. SCHMITT: Yes, sir. We've implemented a call line based
on your direction. I haven't received a call yet on that complaint line.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I do have a question about water
heaters, but I don't want to deviate from this topic.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Good.
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May 26, 2009
MR. SCHMITT: I can answer it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I bet you can, but you have
other commissioners, I think, want to talk about this issue.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. I would hope that when you
-- and I'm not sure if you -- I'm hoping HR let's you do this, and that
is, you look at your whole organization and basically you have a force
ranking of who's the most important all the way down, and that way it
gives you a guideline of where they are, plus where their performance
capabilities are in your department; is that correct?
MR. SCHMITT: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. I'm satisfied with the way
we're going then.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. I'm a little concerned, okay.
I didn't know you were going to bring this up, but I got an email
telling me you were going to bring it up. And I guess I'm sort of
wondering, why does somebody else out in the public know that
you're going to bring something up during correspondence and I don't
know it? And it is from a prominent builder who is -- who also
believes that Friday is not the right time to close.
And it makes me feel a little uneasy that something that could
have a major impact upon our -- your clients is being done without
being advertised, without having an opportunity for people to be here
to comment on it, and without having a formal opinion or
recommendation from DSAC.
I know you say that you've talked with DSAC, but if you've
talked with DSAC, why couldn't it have been staffed through DSAC
and DSAC come and support your decision with a written -- written
approval?
I would feel much more comfortable if we staffed these things
the way we staff other things, because it -- it can have a major impact.
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May 26, 2009
Even with the library closings, I believe that we should have had
more public input about which day is better for which library to close.
But I just feel uneasy about this. I don't have all the answers.
MR. SCHMITT: Commissioner, I've talked about this with the
DSAC since April when we introduced our budget. I've had many
conversations with the CBIA, Tom Lykos, Bill Varian, Bill Spinelli.
They were all in my office last week. I'm meeting with them again
tomorrow morning to talk about the FY 10 budget.
Again, the only concern that the industry even expressed -- in the
last six or eight weeks we've been talking about options -- was the
issue with contractor licensing. There was no issue in regards to the
requirement to close. The only other option I have, if I'm going to
stay open, I am going to run out of money.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No. You could close on
Wednesdays, okay . You're looking for a day to close. Friday is more
convenient because that way all the employees get a long weekend,
and I think that's wonderful. You've got it -- it would be nice to give
them something since you're cutting a day out of their pay, and I'd like
to support that.
My only concern is, if it's something of this importance, why
couldn't you have taken it to DSAC in a formal presentation, let them
consider it in a publicly advertised meeting, give you an -- a formal
approval, and have that formal approval put on this agenda? And that
way we could all be sure that we're serving the public the best we
possibly can.
MR. SCHMITT: I understand. The feedback I got was Friday
was the best day. But I will take your lead and --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No, not just because I'm saying it.
You've got to get a majority of the board before you do anything, so --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: There's only one person with --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It was only one email.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: He says he talked with many people, so --
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But you see, somebody knew that
this was going to be brought up --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I didn't.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- during communication. How did
they know that?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, they must have been talking
with him.
MR. SCHMITT: I put the word out to my staff that this was
potentially going to happen June 12th.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. But you didn't tell us, okay.
You could have given us a read-ahead, you could have given us, you
know, the minutes of the DSAC meeting where this was discussed, if
it was discussed at a meeting. I don't know if it was. I just feel uneasy
about the way it was done. And it might be the right decision, but I
just feel uneasy about the way it was done.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. Joe, this kind of leads into
the item I wanted to speak to you about under communications, but
rather than wait till then, this ties in, rather than bring you back again.
We have a situation in Immokalee with the CRA where they're
willing to spend their own funds, and they've come up with several
different proposals. And we met with you, and one of the proposals
we made to you is, we got an offer from the Regional Planning
Council to do the work. Another suggestion was, is that they be
willing to hire a person back to be able to be dedicated to work on
their particular issue with the Immokalee master plan to be able to get
it forward a little bit sooner than if they wait for staff time to become
available.
Haven't got any replies back at this point in time, and I've got
Penny Phillippi here today. Is there something that you can tell me
that we might be able to tell where we're going to be committed to be
able to make this happen?
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Ifwe have someone that's willing to pay from their own funds to
move it forward and we don't want to disrupt the flow of business
that's already been promised, what can we do to accommodate them?
MR. SCHMITT: Again, talking about the Immokalee Area
Master Plan.
I would like to just correct the record. I received nothing in
regards to -- other than a brief discussion, but of the Immokalee CRA
paying for a staff member to be dedicated on that. I received no
formal proposal. What I did -- and we discussed in your office, had to
do with the RPC doing a review. This board would have to empower
the RPC to do the hearings or, simply, I would have to hire RPC.
That's the proposal I got.
And I don't have that number in front of me, but I believe it was
$47,000 that the RPC wanted to review and staff that product for the --
for it to come before the Board of County Commissioners.
Weare currently doing a sufficiency review on the Immokalee
Area Master Plan. My staff is reviewing it and is preparing a letter to
send comments out to the contractor on what is needed and what
needs to be corrected.
There's no schedule yet in regards to dates. I have a -- on the June
6th agenda I have coming to you, based on your direction, the item
coming back discussing the Compo Plan schedule for the East of -- or
the RLSA five-year review, and part of that amendment -- or part of
that executive summary will also include the dates for the Immokalee
Area Master Plan GMP amendment review as well.
I already scheduled the Compo Plan amendments for the nine --
there were ten. Now there are nine private petitions, but that's a
separate Compo Plan cycle. So I'm coming back on June 6th with an
executive summary at your direction to address the schedules
primarily for the RLSA review, GMP amendment, and for the
Immokalee Area Master Plan. And again, we're asking for your
direction. Your direction was that the Immokalee master plan would
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May 26, 2009
proceed and take precedence over the five-year review; however, I
believe that the five-year GMP amendment cycle may be ready prior
to the Immokalee Area Master Plan. But my staff is still conducting a
sufficiency review.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: But once again, you don't have
sufficient staff or sufficient money to be able to do everything that
we'd like to be done out there. Can you include in your agenda item
that you're bringing here those other options about using the Regional
Planning Council or the CRA being empowered to give you the funds
necessary to hire back a staff person?
MR. SCHMITT: If Penny wishes to send an offer and -- to
support. I've received nothing official saying that they're willing --
they paid the application fee for the Immokalee Area Master Plan,
$12,000.
MS. PHILLIPPI: Sixteen.
MR. SCHMITT: Sixteen, sorry, $16,000. They paid the
application fee. But I've gotten nothing from a standpoint of asking
for additional staff, that they would pay for additional staff to support
that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So if you get that in the next
couple of days, you could include it in that agenda item --
MR. SCHMITT: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- for discussion.
MR. SCHMITT: Certainly can.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: God bless you again.
Okay. So it stands as it is, right?
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am. That was informational for the board.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Do you have any other--
MR. OCHS: Just two other real quick, small items related to
agenda management, because I've talked to different board members,
and they all seem to have a little different idea about how to handle
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either time certain or these proclamation procedures, as I refer to
them, and I'd like some consensus from the board.
Time certain, for example, we've had practices in the past where
only the Chair could set those and others, the manager could set -- it
kind of depended on who was the Chair at the time. And when I get
questions from different board members, I don't really have a
comprehensive protocol on how to deal with these time certain
requests as they come. I'm happy to manage them as they come to
me, but I didn't want to preempt any of the members of the board on
that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Henning, then
Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Well, I -- if a
commissioner wants it on the regular agenda or a time certain on the
regular agenda, I think that's apropos since it's the commissioners'
agenda. Public or staff can go to a commissioner and say, we would
like to have this under time certain. Here's the reason why. Ifhe or
she agrees with you, I don't have a problem with that.
But to have -- we had an issue on the agenda where one of the
staff members wanted it a time certain -- it was a real busy agenda --
and I just thought that was very odd. That's my opinion. As long as a
commissioner wants it, I don't have a problem with it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. I kind of agree with
Commissioner Henning. I do think that commissioners have a right to
ask. Of course, the -- it should go through the county manager and
everything weighed out. And it would depend on when you ask --
county manager's going to have to use good discretion as far as how
many people are going to attend what the urgency is. I mean, it
worked out fine with Jim Mudd when he did it. We never had a
problem.
The problem with the Chair approving it is simply, the Chair is
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not always available within a reasonable period of time when people
are waiting for an answer.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I don't really care. As far as I'm
concerned, any commissioner asks me, and it's fine with me. You
know, I give them all the same respect they gave me every time. But
they don't have to go through me. You know, however you guys want
to do it is fine with me. I, you know --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I'd like to leave it with the
county manager to be able to use that discretion, because if we all ask,
the problem is is that pretty soon the demand might become so strong
that the whole agenda will be time certains.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So what the commissioners are
. .
saYIng IS --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I go along with Commissioner
Coletta in regards to, it should be left up to the county manager or
acting county manager, because I think you're going to end up where,
just like our proclamations, we're getting a fistful of proclamations,
but we get the same thing, a fistful of time certains and we never get
anything done.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Have I been doing something wrong or
anything?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, not at all.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Oh, my goodness. Maybe I'm
doing something wrong.
Okay. Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You know, I take a different view
of this. You know, the Chairperson has the responsibility for setting
the agenda or for at least organizing and making some decisions about
how we can get through it in the most efficient way possible.
I would at least like to have some consultation between the
county manager and the Chair. And if the Chair -- the Chair should
recognize any commissioner's request for a time certain, but I think
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May 26, 2009
the Chair should be aware of it, and the Chair should be able to take
into consideration the potential impact so that you might want to shift
some other things around; otherwise, you could be having a number of
time certains. I mean, you have a vacant spot and nothing to do, and
you're sitting around twiddling your thumbs.
But I just don't like the idea of stripping a chairperson of the
responsibility of having input on the agenda. I just don't like doing
that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Then if I may, the problem that
come up was the fact that when I asked for a time certain and I had
people waiting, it was days before they got back to me because they
either couldn't get ahold of Donna or they didn't think it was important
enough to bother her, and it was raising all sorts of problems. A
decision couldn't be made in a short period of time.
We're going to be going away pretty soon on an extended
sabbatical, or whatever you want to call it, but that's --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Summer recess.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Whatever. I'll be here to guard
the front for you, so don't worry about it.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Good, good. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: But, you know, at that time it
might be days before a commissioner responds back. You know, that
was the only concern is that there was a delay, I had people coming
back to me saying, what's going on and we were waiting for an answer
back.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah, Commissioner--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I mean, I'll go for whatever it
takes, however it flows.
MR.OCHS: Commissioner, in that case what happened was -- it
was the Frangipani item. You heard it under public petition. A couple
days later I got an email from Commissioner Coletta saying that when
that item comes back for a staff report, I'd like to see if we could do it
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as a time certain.
So I told the commissioner that typically I consult with the Chair
before I, you know, sign any time certains to that upcoming agenda.
So that accounted for the gap between -- you know, if I got a call
tomorrow from a commissioner saying I'd like a time certain for a
meeting four weeks from now on an item that's coming, that's where I
get into the protocol concern.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Because I didn't think I'd put anybody off
or anything.
MR.OCHS: No, no, you didn't.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Now I understand. Okay, fine.
MR. OCHS: That was the counter for the delay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I sure don't mind. I agree with
Commissioner Coyle. I think that that -- you know, call the manager's
office and set it up, but I would just like to be aware of what's going
on or be told or -- you know, if there's -- you know, I would like to be
a part of that.
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am. I can do that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You know, anybody who's chairman is
responsible for running the meeting and --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- if it isn't run right, guess who's at fault?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's always you, no matter who the
Chairperson is, but --
MR. OCHS: I can continue to do that, work with the
Chairperson to make sure time certain --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And, you know, if there's a delay
and you're running into a time line, you know, you just make a
decision and get it done. I wouldn't inconvenience a commissioner
who needs to have a time certain on an item. But I really think that
your first step should to be talk with the Chair and see if there is any
problem or a preference as to what time should be set up and then try
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May 26, 2009
to work it out.
MR.OCHS: That's great.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And as far as I'm concerned, Leo,
if I'm not around, just do it.
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You know, it's fine with me.
MR. OCHS: And then the related item was the proclamations. Is
the board willing to formalize the practice you've initiated here
recently about proclamations not being read at the meetings?
The reason I bring it up, Ms. Springs had a conversation with me.
She doesn't know -- most times they're not read now, but on occasion
if they were, she's responsible for making sure that it gets to the right
commissioner to be read. So she was looking for a little certainty on
how that all was going to work.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That takes all the fun out of it.
MR.OCHS: Yeah, I know.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Just do away with them. The --
yeah, I kind of like the practice, unless a commissioner would like to
read it, then they'd be -- go to the county manager, and it will be
assigned.
MR.OCHS: Yeah, but let Mr. Mitchell know if you have a
particular proclamation you want read, and he can arrange for that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I could go for that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You know, I haven't seen anybody object
to it.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Nope.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Everyone seems to have been just fine. I
think they all like coming up, getting their picture taken, receiving the
proclamation, and they do have an opportunity to step to the podium if
they'd like to say a few words.
MR.OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
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May 26, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So it seems that we haven't had any
objection to it.
MR.OCHS: Great.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Looks like you've got agreement up here
all the way around. Okay.
MR. OCHS: That's all I have, ma'am. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. How about the county attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We'll start with Commissioner
Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Nothing from me.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Just an item. Obviously
everybody's read the newspaper where the medical director has made
some statements in regards to improprieties on tests being taken, and I
see there's a couple of people here that are waiting. And maybe it's
good to get the other side of the story unless they don't have the other
side of the story.
So I -- that's why I assume you're waiting here, to see if this is
going to be discussed; is that correct? What -- do you have some
concerns that you'd like to address?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Anybody?
CHIEF STOLTS: Good evening, Commissioners. No. We were
just waiting around to see if it was going to be addressed. Didn't have
anything in particular. We don't have the other side of the story as of
yet.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
CHIEF STOL TS: We are investigating that, and we will be
forthcoming with that. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Because I've always learned that
there's always -- there's always two sides to the story, and I'd like to
get both sides before I draw a conclusion on what's taking place or
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May 26, 2009
took place in this case.
CHIEF STOL TS: I appreciate that. There's always two sides to
the story. Orly Stolts, North Naples Fire, thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: To just make a statement
concerning that. You haven't completed your inquiry into the thing,
the issue, and as far as I know, there hasn't been any report made by
any agency in Tallahassee, so we don't have the information to discuss
it either.
And I have intentionally stayed away from getting involved in
this because I think it's fruitless to talk about it until everybody has
gotten the information they need to get, and then we bring it together,
and then we talk about it and see if we can't solve the problem.
CHIEF STOLTS: I agree. We have a lot of information to
gather. I hope the information request that we put in, the requests that
we put in, are fully supported. We also were interested to see what the
state will have to say, so it's a wait-and-see right now for us.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Same for us.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I have one other item. I got an
email the other day. It 34 to a felon that served time in Kentucky, and
that person came down to Collier County, and he was told by
authorities in Kentucky that he would have to report to the Sheriffs
Department, whatever place he visited.
So this particular individual came down to Collier County, went
to the Sheriffs Office, made certain that he registered as a felon.
He found out that he was going to be charged $75, and I guess
we have an ordinance to that effect. He -- when he got out of being
incarcerated, they gave him $100. So he ended up coming down here,
and the Sheriffs Department said, if you don't pay, we'll have a
warrant out for your arrest.
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May 26, 2009
So my question is, if somebody just came down here to visit for
two weeks or two days, whatever the time line was -- he's now back in
Kentucky. He wrote me a letter or an email asking that we take some
consideration in regards to maybe lowering that, because he felt that
$75 was pretty heavy since he only got $100 on his release.
So I'm asking the board what their thought is. We realize that this
person was a felon, and -- but he didn't realize that when he got here it
was going to cost him $75. We found out there is a -- an ordinance in
regards to that that he has to pay that.
So right now the Sheriffs Department -- I guess they've given
him a time line to come up with the necessary funds or else they're
going to have a warrant for his arrest.
So whatever -- any discussion on this item, or you want to just let
it go? I mean, I brought it up --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If you want to make an agenda
item on the next meeting to have somebody explain how this whole
world's put together, I'm more than willing to listen to it.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Because there's got to be
another side to this.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, there's always two sides to
the story. So could we have somebody look into this and tell us what
the other side of the story is on this?
MR. OCHS : Yes, sir. If I have three nods, we can make that
happen.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yep.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yep.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Thank you. I'm not sure what his
time line was.
County Attorney, I sent you the email, and that's when you says,
yeah, we do have an ordinance.
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May 26, 2009
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. There's a state statute that requires
all felons to register in the county within 48 hours after arrival into a
county, and we have a $75 charge for that because the sheriffhas
expenses in, you know, basically keeping an eye on these folks, and
he says he doesn't have the money.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It might be an old ordinance that
we need to --
MR. KLA TZKOW: Actually it's a recent ordinance. It came to
us as the sexual predator ordinance, and it's part of that. So it includes
not only sexual predators, but all felons.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So we have to find out what this
person was incarcerated for. I don't know ifhe's --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sounds like we know already.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We can just tell him not to come to
Florida again. That will solve the problem.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: We don't know whether he was a
sexual predator or -- that information I don't have.
MR. KLATZKOW: I don't know.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So if there's some way we can find
that out, so -- because I think it's important that we protect the
children, too.
MR. KLATZKOW: We can get in touch with the Sheriffs
Office and get the full story.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. Last week -- no, I
think two meetings ago we had Marcela Rice come before us
regarding the census, and she asked us at that point in time -- gave us
all the information -- and I'm just going to be short about it.
She was asking for a couple things. One, for us to sign on as a
supporter, which is a noncommitment as far as money goes. The only
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May 26, 2009
time commitment would be myself and maybe a staff person if you so
direct. But I'm more than willing to be the point person to go to these
meetings with the understanding I'm not acting with any authority for
spending money or time or resources of the county.
And what I'm looking for is permission of this commission to
designate me as the point person and to authorize the Chair to sign the
form saying that we will participate in the supportive group for the
census.
So you've got to remember, the census means a lot to Collier
County as far as to make sure that we have everybody in line. There's
untold millions of dollars at stake out there to make sure that we're
going to be able to get it. So it's whatever your pleasure is.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's my understanding, this is a
pre-census taking and not the actual census, and there's concerns of
the community that community organizers are being paid to take this
pre-census.
I would like to know more about exactly what law and who are
these people and what do they want. And I also understand, if you
don't answer the questions, that there's a fine for it also, so -- I mean,
it's bizarre.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, Governor Crist just came
up with a proclamation doing exactly what I'm suggesting as far as the
governor goes and state legislative body, and so they've signed on as
being one of the participants within this. They're look for
organizations.
In fact, I didn't want to read the whole thing, but I'm more than
happy to.
Your support as a 2010 census partner is important. Here's why.
Every year more than 300 billion in federal funds are awarded to
states and communities based on sensitive data. Hence, more than
three trillion distributed over a ten-year period.
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May 26, 2009
Census data guides local decision makers in important
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The census determines how many seats each state will have in the
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legislators, county and city councils and voting districts.
The goal of the Census Bureau Partnership Program is to
combine the strength of local government, community-based
organizations, faith-based organizations, schools, media, business and
others, to assure a complete and accurate 21 0 (sic) census.
The Census Bureau will provide promotion material, regular
updates, and data assistance to partners to assist in this effort.
Together, through this partnership, we can ensure the 2010
census message is delivered to every corner of the nation, achieving a
complete and accurate 2010 census in our hands.
And I marked off the items that I thought would be important to
Collier County and that I would suggest we check off, and that would
be to encourage employees and constituents to complete and mail in
their questionnaires, to provide space at counter sites, such as the --
places such as like our libraries and our community centers regarding
the census, organize and/or serve as a member on the complete count
committee, which I'd be more than willing to do, allow census bureau
to post our organization name as 2010 census in the 2010 census
website linked to the 2010 website from our organizational site, use
the distribution and educational material at the libraries, communities
centers, issue a public endorsement for the 2010 census, very similar
to the one Governor Crist did, and participate in the 2010 census
partnership kickoff meetings, highlight key 2010 census operation
events in our website, volunteer or participate in census bureau
sponsored events, and I'd be willing to do that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I shared my concern.
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May 26, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I'll tell you, I've been wanting to
do this also. I've already been speaking --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Oh.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- to the Supervisor of Elections, and I've
talked with the county manager, and I've talked a little bit with David
Weeks because I felt that this is really important and -- to our -- you
know, to our county. So if you -- if you -- I would like to sit in. If
you wanted to be our point person --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No. I'll make it even easier. I
didn't know if anyone else had an interest in it, and this is why I went
forward with this.
Commissioner Fiala, I'll be glad to let you be the point person,
and I'll fill in wherever necessary.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. That would be good. I just want
to make sure -- it doesn't make any difference, you, me, anybody, that
somebody here is on all of those things, because I'd love to see a fair
distribution this time.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right. Then you're it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And -- you know, just to make sure that
we aren't overlooked or anything or you know -- thank you so much.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. If you'd fill that out.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I will.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And of course, you need one
more person to agree before you can do it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'll make a motion that the
Chairlady be our primary designee and that Commissioner Coletta be
our secondary designee. You have to be careful you don't show up at
the same time or else you could violate the Sunshine Law.
But I am really most interested in making sure that organizations
like ACORN are not involved in trying to slant the census collection
process.
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I can assure you that
Commissioner Donna Fiala will not permit that.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'll second that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Then I'm fine.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. You know, whenever I go to one
of these meetings, I'll report back to you so that everybody knows
what we heard. I would like every body to be informed so we all feel
like we're in it together, okay?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I don't even want to hear about it.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Indoctrinating people, too.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: As long as I get some of those
questions answered, I'm fine with it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, yeah. I just think -- I'm one that
likes to make sure everybody knows what's going on just so that--
okay. You know, because if I hear it, somebody else might hear it
another way there, and this way then if we've all got input, I could use
guidance also.
Okay, good.
MS. FILSON: Commissioner?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Anything else from you, Commissioner
Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I think I used my allotted time.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You want to take a vote on the
motions?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, yes. I'd better do that.
MS. FILSON: Can I ask a question?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, if you've got 50 cents.
MS. FILSON: Should this be something that the county attorney
signs for legal sufficiency before you sign, and we can put it through
the process like all other original documents? Just a question.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Sure. Why not. There's space at
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May 26, 2009
the bottom. We can write another name in.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, good.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We're just appointing a
representative. We're not doing anything that's --
MS. FILSON : Well, he requested --
MR. KLA TZKOW: This is a political -- this is a political issue.
I mean, and it's going to affect your redistricting, so I think it's a good
idea that you're involved in it. You don't need me to look at the
paperwork.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We'll have you look at it anyway. We'll
make sure to send you a copy of everything we do. And I'll make sure
that the other commissioners see it, too, because --
MR. KLATZKOW: That's fine.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- that way then we'll all feel like we're a
part of this thing. Okay?
Okay. Anything from you, Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, but I want to vote on this
motion first.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, yeah. You said that once already,
and I forgot it.
Okay. We do have a motion. Do we have a motion?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes, we do.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes, we do. I made a motion to
appoint you.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I seconded.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, yeah. Oh, that motion.
All those in favor?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
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May 26, 2009
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Great.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes, two. First of all, I'm so
happy that Kathleen Passidomo and the senior foundation has
recognized the needs, and I can tell you that everybody's looking
forward to working with -- in Golden Gate working with the
foundation to bring such a great asset not only to Collier County -- or
Golden Gate, but Collier County.
The second thing is the water heater permit issue. Is it -- does
everybody have to get a permit to get -- to replace a water heater?
MR.OCHS: I'm going to ask Mr. Schmitt to take that.
MR. SCHMITT: Nothing has changed since our last report.
There's no permit required. That's suspended.
As an update, the rules committee met today and supported the
recommendation going to the Florida Building Commission to -- their
ruling is that it requires a permit to the association of -- Florida
Building -- Florida Association of Building Officials recommended
and support the requirement for a permit, and the Board of Adjustment
and Appeals that met here locally voted 4-1.
So it now goes to the Florida Building Commission. And I don't
have the dates. June 5th, and then August -- sometime in August,
there are two hearings, and then they will issue a ruling. Once they
issue the ruling, we will come back and advise the board on the ruling
and take your direction.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Somebody sent me the minutes
to the Florida -- or the Board of Adjustment Appeals.
MR. SCHMITT: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And it's a little concerning. It's
saying the building director noted the purpose of the meeting is that --
the board to review the interpretation of the Florida Building Code,
specifically the county permitting requirement of installation and
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May 26, 2009
replacing electric hot water heaters or gas heaters. He noted the
following: The interpretation based upon ten one twenty-seven
version of the Florida Building Code. It was adopted on March 1, '99.
It goes on saying that it supports needing a permit.
MR. SCHMITT: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MR. SCHMITT: That was required. The -- both the DCA and
the Florida Building Commission require that it go through the local
Board of Adjustment and Appeals, and that's part of the process.
So it went to the local -- your local Board of Adjustment Appeals
for the review first. It was a review of exactly what you said, the
building official's interpretation, and that was forwarded to the Florida
Building Commission. They required it go through the local board
first.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. And then under the
board discussion the following was noted: The County Attorney's
Office reviewed the application section of the code and deemed it
unclear and awaiting official declaration statement from DCA for
formulating an opinion.
I guess my concern is, when staff has basically a
recommendation or interpretation, it's no different than this board,
they're going to side with a staff member. But it's also my
understanding that that same building code official has the ability to
waive a permit requirement, not fees, but permit requirement.
MR. SCHMITT: Yes. Based on the interpretation of the code.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The City of Naples and City of
Marco Island is not going to require permits, okay. So it leaves me to
conclude is, the building official has the ability to waive a permit.
MR. SCHMITT: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So why are we going through
this process when I heard from my colleagues is, we don't want to
have -- you have to get a permit to replace a water heater?
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May 26, 2009
MR. SCHMITT: That was not your direction. Your direction
was to take it --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I know, but our -- we were
never told that the building director has the ability to waive a permit.
MR. SCHMITT: The building director has not -- there's not a
waiver here. This is not a waiver of a permit. This is an interpretation
that no permit's required. If I can clarify, those two building directors,
for whatever reason -- and I don't know, but they made interpretations
that no permit was required, as probably one-third of the other
jurisdictions in the State of Florida. About two-thirds have and about
one-third ruled no permit required.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I had a conversation with a
person on Monday at the Memorial Gardens about government
consolidation -- or govern- -- what do you call it, charter government,
and also this discussion about water heaters. And we both came to the
conclusion, maybe we -- Collier County should just annex into the
City of Naples, be one government, since they seem to have less
government than the county does.
But in order for me to get -- ifmy hot water heater blows up, and
now closed Friday, how am I going to replace my hot water heater?
MR. SCHMITT: You can -- you can -- a contractor, or you can
-- you can replace it -- emergency repair, you can replace it, and then
it can be permitted after the fact at no charge, I mean, no charge for
after-the- fact permit.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That isn't what our fee
resolution says. It says there's three or four or ten times the amount
for.
MR. SCHMITT: No, sir. It's right in the Florida Building Code.
We brought that to your attention. It says right in the building code --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But our fee resolution says --
our fee resolution says there will be no after-the-fact permit.
MR. SCHMITT: That's not correct, sir. There is an after-the-fact
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May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER HENNING: In our fee resolution?
MR. SCHMITT: Yes, sir. An after-the-fact permit paragraph in
there, and there's two times -- if it's -- if it's at the cause of the
individual but no increase or no -- it's these -- and I'm at a loss for the
words right now, but it said, the normal permit fee, if it's done
voluntarily or at the -- or even an emergency. It's clearly stated in the
Florida Building Code.
If it's an emergency and you need to have an emergency repair
and unable to get a permit, you can get a permit after the fact. And
contractors can get a book often permits, and they can order -- they
can have a permit book, which they can purchase, so --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right. Can I purchase a
booklet?
MR. SCHMITT: You have to be a licensed contractor. You can
purchase it if you're a licensed contractor.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We're going to lose Commissioner Coyle.
Wait one second.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I move slowly.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We're almost done. He moves slowly.
MR. SCHMITT: Have I answered your questions? You
finished?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I guess it's a done issue.
MR. SCHMITT: You'll have a decision, probably be applied
statewide after the Florida Building Commission rules or makes a final
ruling in August.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And before we adjourn, before I
take a motion to adjourn, I just want to extend all of our deepest
sympathies to Bonnie Tucker at the loss of her husband, Glenn
Tucker, a former city councilman on Marco Island, and a true friend to
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Marco and to all of the county. And so Bonnie, we send you our
deepest sympathies.
And with that, I'll take a motion to adjourn.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Motion to adjourn.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. All those in favor.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. Motion -- meeting adjourned.
*****
* * * *Commissioner Halas moved, seconded by Commissioner
Henning and carried unanimously that the following items under the
Consent and Summary Agendas be approved and/or adopted * * * *
Item #16Al
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY
FACILITIES FOR PROFESSIONAL VILLAGE AT
NORTHBROOKE - W/RELEASE OF ANY UTILITIES
PERFORMANCE SECURITY (UPS)
Item #16A2
RESOLUTION 2009-125: DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS FOR
THE FINAL PLAT OF PINE AIR LAKES UNIT FIVE WITH THE
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May 26, 2009
DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS BEING PRIVATELY
MAINTAINED. THERE ARE NO ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS
ASSOCIATED WITH THIS FINAL PLAT - W/RELEASE OF THE
MAINTENANCE SECURITY
Item #16A3
RESOLUTION 2009-126: ROADWAY (PRIVATE) AND
DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF
JASMINE LAKE-A (CYPRESS WOODS PUD) WITH THE
ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS BEING
PRIV A TEL Y MAINTAINED - W /RELEASE OF THE
MAINTENANCE SECURITY
Item #16A4
RESOLUTION 2009-127: RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING A
VEHICLE FOR HIRE ADMINISTRATIVE MANUAL,
PROVIDING DEFINITIONS AND EXEMPTIONS, AND
ESTABLISHING REGULATORY GUIDELINES AND
REQUIREMENTS CONSISTENT WITH THE COLLIER
COUNTY VEHICLE FOR HIRE ORDINANCE (THIS ITEM IS A
COMPANION TO 17E) - PROMOTING REGULATION
THROUGH EFFECTIVE COMPETITION AND LICENSING
STANDARDS WHILE CONTINUING TO PROTECT THE
HEALGH SAFETY AND WELFARE OF THE PUBLIC SERVED
BY THIS INDUSTRY
Item #16A5
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE WATER UTILITY FACILITIES
FOR HERITAGE BAY AFFORDABLE HOUSING - W /RELEASE
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May 26, 2009
OF ANY UTILITIES PERFORMANCE SECURITY (UPS)
Item #16A6
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE WATER UTILITY FACILITY
FOR HERITAGE BAY, UNIT 2 A - PHASE 1 - W/RELEASE OF
ANY UTILITIES PERFORMANCE SECURITY (UPS)
Item #16A7
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY
FACILITIES FOR HERITAGE BAY, PHASE 1 B-2 (LION'S BAY
COURT) - W/RELEASE OF THE UTILITIES PERFORMANCE
SECURITY (UPS)
Item # 16A8
ACCEPTANCE OF THE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY
FACILITIES FOR HERITAGE BAY COMMONS, PHASE 1 -
W/RELEASE OF THE UTILITIES PERFORMANCE SECURITY
(UPS)
Item #16A9
ACCEPTANCE OF THE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY
FACILITIES FOR HERITAGE BAY COMMONS, PHASE 2 -
W/RELEASE OF THE UTILITIES PERFORMANCE SECURITY
(UPS)
Item #16AI0
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE WATER UTILITY FACILITY
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May 26, 2009
FOR HERITAGE BAY, PHASE 2A-PHASE 2 - W/RELEAS OF
THE UTILITIES PERFORMANCE SECURITY (UPS)
Item #16All
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY
FACILITIES FOR HERITAGE BAY, PHASE 2A - W/RELEASE
OF THE UTILITIES PERFORMANCE SECURITY (UPS)
Item #16A12
ACCEPTANCE OF THE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY
FACILITIES FOR HERITAGE BAY, PHASE 2B - W/RELEASE
OF UTILITY PERFORMANCE SECURITY (UPS)
Item #16Bl
RESOLUTION 2009-128: RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE
CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
TO EXECUTE A LOCAL AGENCY PROGRAM AGREEMENT
WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
(FDOT) IN WHICH COLLIER COUNTY WOULD BE
REIMBURSED UP TO $233,000 FOR STREET LIGHTING
INSTALLATION IN EVERGLADES CITY ALONG CR29
(COLLIER AVENUE) AND ALONG BROADWAY FROM THE
TOWN CENTER EAST TO CR29 (FDOT PROJECT #420885-1-58-
01)
Item #16B2
RESOLUTION 2009-129: RESOLUTION AND TWO SEPARATE
MEMORANDUMS OF AGREEMENT PERTAINING TO
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May 26, 2009
ESTABLISHING AN ESCROW ACCOUNT TO DEPOSIT FUNDS
PERTAINING TO THE RELOCATION OF UTILITIES AND
INSTALLATION OF AN INTELLIGENT TRAFFIC SYSTEM IN
CONNECTION WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATIONS (FDOT) IMPROVEMENTS TO 1-
75/IMMOKALEE ROAD INTERCHANGE THAT INCLUDES
REQUIRED MODIFICATIONS TO IMMOKALEE ROAD,
COUNTY PROJECT #66042, ALLOWING FOR AN 8-LANE
SECTION FROM THE STRAND BLVD EAST THROUGH THE
INTERCHANGE TO T ARPON BAY BLVD (THE ROAD
PROJECT), AND A LOCALLY FUNDED AGREEMENT AND A
SECOND AMENDMENT TO THAT LOCALLY FUNDED
AGREEMENT EXECUTED ON MARCH 20, 2007, ALL
PERTAINING TO THE ROAD PROJECT
Item # 16B3
AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT ALLOWING THE FORMER
OWNERS OF A NOW COUNTY OWNED PROPERTY
LOCATED WITHIN THE V ANDERBIL T BEACH ROAD
EXTENSION PROJECT THE OPTION TO EXTEND THEIR
OCCUPANCY FOR AN ADDITIONAL PERIOD NOT TO
EXCEED TWO MONTHS. PROJECT NO. 60168 (FISCAL
IMP ACT: MAY HAVE A POSITIVE FISCAL IMP ACT IN THE
AMOUNT OF $2,000 WHICH WOULD BE CREDITED TO THE
GAS TAX AND IMP ACT FEE ACCOUNT)
Item #16B4
TWO (2) ADOPT -A-ROAD PROGRAM AGREEMENTS WITH
FOUR (4) ROADWAY RECOGNITION SIGNS AT A TOTAL
COST OF $300.00 - LOCATED AT CR29 NORTH BRIDGE
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May 26, 2009
TOWARD US 41 FOR THE EVERGLADES SOCIETY FOR
HISTORIC SOCIETY FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION
Item # 16B5
ONE (1) ADOPT-A-ROAD PROGRAM AGREEMENT WITH
TWO (2) ROADWAY RECOGNITION SIGNS AT A TOTAL
COST OF $150.00 - LOCATED AT IMMOKALEE ROAD FROM
OIL WELL ROAD TO 47TH A VENUE NE, FOR THE GREEN
APPLE ASSOCIATION OF CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS
Item #16B6
CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT WITH THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION (FDOT) FOR THE
DEMONSTRATION OF TECHNOLOGIES PROJECT
CONSISTING OF THE USE OF A HYBRID PARATRANSIT BUS
FOR THE PERIOD OF JUNE 15 THROUGH JUNE 26,2009-
WHICH INVOL VESTOURING THE STATE OF FLORIDA WITH
A HYBRID VEHICLE ALLOWING THOSE INTERESTED
AGENCIES TO TEST THE TECHNOLOGY FOR A SHORT
PERIOD OF TIME
Item #16B7
AWARD BID #09-5200 FOR CONSTRUCTION OF MAGNOLIA
POND DRIVE STORMW A TER IMPROVEMENTS, PROJECT
NO. 51007.1, TO DOUGLAS N. HIGGINS, INC., IN THE
AMOUNT OF $78,900.00 PLUS A TEN PERCENT
CONTINGENCY ($7,890.00) FOR A TOTAL AMOUNT OF
$86,790.00, AND TO APPROVE THE NECESSARY BUDGET
AMENDMENT - SUBJECT TO FINAL REVIEW BY THE
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May 26, 2009
COUNTY ATTORNEY FOR LEGAL SUFFICIENCY
Item #16B8
COLLIER METROPOLITAN PLANNING ORGANIZATIONS
(MPO) OPERATING BUDGET FOR FY 2009/10, INCLUDING A
$5,000 COUNTY MATCH FOR FEDERAL HIGHWAY
ADMINISTRATION PLANNING - FOR PLANNING
ACTIVITIES IN SUPPORT OF THE STATE'S TD PROGRAM
Item #16B9
AWARD BID #09-5228 "CR 951 SOUTH OF JOLLEY BRIDGE
LANDSCAPE AND IRRIGATION INSTALLATION" TO VILA &
SON LANDSCAPING CORP., IN THE AMOUNT OF $441,019.93
FOR PROJECT #60086 - STAFF TO INCLUDE THE
OPERATION, MAINTENANCE AND LIFECYCLE
REPLACEMENT COST AS A LINE ITEM IN THE ANNUAL
BUDGET REVIEW AFTER THE PROJECT IS COMPLETED
Item # 16B 1 0 - Moved to Item # 1 OL (Per Commissioner Henning and
Commissioner Coletta during Agenda Changes)
Item #16Cl
RESOLUTION 2009-130: RESOLUTION TO APPROVE THE
SATISFACTIONS OF LIEN FOR SOLID WASTE RESIDENTIAL
ACCOUNTS WHEREIN THE COUNTY HAS RECEIVED
PAYMENT AND SAID LIENS ARE SATISFIED IN FULL FOR
THE 1995 AND 1996 SOLID WASTE COLLECTION AND
DISPOSAL SERVICES SPECIAL ASSESSMENT. FISCAL
IMPACT IS $38.00 TO RECORD THE SATISFACTIONS OF LIEN
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May 26, 2009
Item # 16C2
AWARD BID NUMBER 09-5238 WEST WIND MOBILE HOME
P ARK WATER DISTRIBUTION IMPROVEMENTS IN THE
AMOUNT OF $845,328.01 TO GUYMANN CONSTRUCTION OF
FLORIDA, INC., TO COMPLETE THE REHABILITATION OF
THE WATER DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM TO SERVICE THE
WEST WINDS SUBDIVISION, PROJECT #71010.4 - THE
CURRENT WATER DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM WAS
CONSTRUCTED IN THE 1960'S AND IS REACHING THE END
OF LIFE EXPECTANCY. THE REHABILITATION WILL
INCLUDE NEW WATER MAINS, SERVICE LINES,
ADDITIONAL FIRE HYDRANTS, AND INCLUDE A SECOND
WATER MAIN RESULTING IN A LOOPED FEED THAT WILL
DECREASE SERVICE INTERRUPTIONS
Item #16C3
RECOMMENDATION TO AMEND THE FRANCHISE
AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY (COUNTY) AND
CHOICE ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES OF COLLIER
COUNTY, INC. (CES) TO IMPLEMENT SINGLE STREAM
RECYCLING IN DISTRICT II ENHANCING RECYCLING AND
WASTE REDUCTION; APPROVE A NECESSARY BUDGET
AMENDMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $250,000; AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD TO EXECUTE
THE AMENDMENT TO THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT -
THAT WILL RESULT IN SIGNIFICANT COST SAVINGS AND
EXTEND THE LIFE OF THE LANDFILL AND PRESERVE
NA TURAL RESOURCES
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May 26, 2009
Item #16C4
WORK ORDER IN THE AMOUNT OF $980,000.00 TO
YOUNGQUIST BROTHERS, INC., FOR THE REPAIR AND
REPLACEMENT OF A MECHANICAL FAILURE OF THE
NORTH COUNTY REGIONAL WATER TREATMENT PLANT
DEEP INJECTION WELL NO.2. STEEL INJECTION TUBING,
PROJECT #70008.1 - PLACING IT BACK INTO SERVICE AS
MANDA TED BY THE FDEP
Item #16Dl
AMENDMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND THE AREA AGENCY ON
AGING OF SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, INC., WHICH REFLECTS
ADDITIONAL GRANT FUNDING IN THE AMOUNT OF $77,999
FOR THE OLDER AMERICANS ACT PROGRAM FOR 2009 -
ALLOWING COLLIER'S ELDERLY SENIORS TO REMAIN IN
THEIR HOMES AND AGE WITH DIGNITY THROUGH
VARIOUS SENIOR PROGRAMS
Item #16D2
AFTER-THE-FACT FUNDING UNDER THE AMERICAN
RECOVERY AND REINVESTMENT ACT (ARRA) OF 2009 TO
INCREASE CONGREGATE AND HOME DELIVERED MEALS
TO SENIORS IN COLLIER COUNTY
Item #16D3
AMENDMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND THE AREA AGENCY ON
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May 26, 2009
AGING OF SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, INC., WHICH REFLECTS
ADDITIONAL GRANT FUNDING IN THE AMOUNT OF $23,265
FOR THE COMMUNITY CARE FOR THE ELDERLY (CCE)
PROGRAM FOR 2009
Item #16D4
AMENDMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND THE AREA AGENCY ON
AGING OF SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, INC., WHICH REFLECTS
A NET DECREASE IN GRANT FUNDING IN THE AMOUNT OF
$4,800 FOR THE HOME CARE FOR THE ELDERLY (HCE)
PROGRAM FOR 2009
Item #16D5
TWEL VE (12) OWNER OCCUPIED LIEN AGREEMENTS FOR
DEFERRAL OF 100% OF COLLIER COUNTY IMPACT FEES
FOR OWNER-OCCUPIED AFFORDABLE HOUSING
DWELLING UNITS LOCATED IN COLLIER COUNTY - FOR
THE FOLLOWING LOTS IN LIBERTY LANDING LOT 45,
$14,987.08; LOT # 57, $14,987.08; LOT #118, $12,442.46; LOT
#59, $14,987.08; IN TRAIL RIDGE LOT #72, $22,325.96; LOT
#189, $22,325.96; LOT #187, $22,325.96; LOT #65, $22,325.96;
LOT #71, $22,325.96; LOT #193, $22,325.96; LOT #182,
$22~325.96; AND LOT #194. $22.325.96
Item #16D6
SUMMARY OF THE IMPACT FEE DEFERRAL AGREEMENTS
RECOMMENDED FOR APPROVAL IN FY09, INCLUDING THE
TOT AL NUMBER OF AGREEMENTS APPROVED, THE TOTAL
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May 26, 2009
DOLLAR AMOUNT DEFERRED AND THE BALANCE
REMAINING FOR ADDITIONAL DEFERRALS IN FY09
Item # 16D7 - Moved to Item # 1 OK (Per Commissioner Henning
during Agenda Changes)
Item #16D8
SUMMER FOOD SERVICE PROGRAM GRANT IN THE
AMOUNT OF $588,400 FOR FY 2009 - PROVIDING FREE AND
NUTRITIOUS MEALS DURING THE SUMMER FOR
CHILDREN LIVING IN DISADVANTAGED NEIGHBORHOODS
IN COLLIER COUNTY
Item #16D9
AFTER- THE-F ACT APPROVAL FOR A HAZARD MITIGATION
GRANT PROGRAM (HMGP) APPLICATION SUBMITTED TO
THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT COMMUNITY AFFAIRS FOR
THE GOLDEN GATE COMMUNITY CENTER AND
IMMOKALEE SPORTS COMPLEX IN THE AMOUNT OF
$146,260 - FOR INSTALLATION OF HURRICANE SHUTTERS
IN ALL BUILDING OPENINGS (WINDOWS, DOORS, AND
VENTS) IN THE EVENT OF A HURRICANE THAT DISRUPTED
POWER IN THE COMMUNITY FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD
OF TIME
Item #16D10
DIRECTOR OF HOUSING AND HUMAN SERVICES TO
ELECTRONICALL Y SUBMIT THE ATTACHED SENIOR
CORPS RETIRED AND SENIOR VOLUNTEER PROGRAM
Page 267
May 26, 2009
(RSVP) APPLICATION FOR GRANT RENEWAL, TO THE
CORPORATION FOR NATIONAL AND COMMUNITY
SERVICE, FOR THE CONTINUATION OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY-SPONSORED RSVP PROGRAM, THAT, IF
AWARDED, WILL PROVIDE GRANT FUNDS IN THE
AMOUNT OF $66,167 - PLACING SENIORS IN ALMOST 100
NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS AND COUNTY AGENCIES
FOR COMMUNITY SERVICE
Item #16Dll
AFTER- THE-F ACT APPROVAL FOR THE A TT ACHED
HEAL TH CARE AND OTHER FACILITIES SPECIAL
CONGRESSIONAL INITIATIVE GRANT APPLICA TION THAT
WAS SUBMITTED TO THE UNITED STATES HEALTH
RESOURCES & SERVICES ADMINISTRATION IN THE
AMOUNT OF $141,570 AND, IF AWARDED, TO SERVE AS
THE FISCAL AGENT AND TO AUTHORIZE STAFF TO
NEGOTIATE AGREEMENTS WITH THE PARTICIPATING
AGENCIES - TO HELP IMPROVE HEALTH CARE ACCESS TO
THE UNINSURED
Item #16D12
BUDGET AMENDMENT RECOGNIZING $6,324 IN REVENUE
FROM AN INSURANCE REIMBURSEMENT AND
APPROPRIATING FUNDS FOR PURCHASE OF A MOWER
Item #16D13
AWARD BID #09-5233 IN THE AMOUNT OF $159,193 TO
HEATHERWOOD CONSTRUCTION COMPANY, INC., FOR
Page 268
May 26, 2009
THE NORTH COLLIER REGIONAL PARK BOARDWALK
ADDITION - FOR EXTENDING THE LENGTH OF THE
BOARDWALK BY APPROXIMATELY 900' BY 6' WIDE OVER
THE PRESERVE/WETLANDS TO THE EXISTING ASPHALT
WALKWAY
Item #16El
AWARD BID NO. 09-5215, TEMPORARY LABORERS, TO
ABLE BODY LABOR, BALANCE STAFFING, AND
TRADEFORCE STAFFING FOR TEMPORARY LABOR
SERVICES - ALLOWING DEPARTMENTS TO COMPLETE
WORK WITH BOTH SKILLED AND UNSKILLED LABORERS
Item #16E2
AWARD PROTECTIVE FOOTWEAR BID# 09-5178 TO VICS
BOOT AND SHOE AND UNIFORMS UNLIMITED AS CO-
VENDORS - TO GOVERN THE PURCHASE AND USE OF
PROTECTIVE FOOTWEAR
Item #16E3
AWARD BID# 09-5192 TO SUMMIT TRAINING
CORPORATION FOR ONLINE SAFETY TRAINING SERVICES
IN THE AMOUNT OF $49,875 - ALLOWING FOR EMPLOYEES
TO SPEND LESS TIME TRAVELING TO AND FROM
TRAINING SESSIONS AND MAXIMIZING THE RESOURCES
TO A GREATER NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES
Item #16E4
Page 269
May 26, 2009
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO FUND 516, PROPERTY AND
CASUAL TY INSURANCE, TO FUND THE PAYMENT OF
CLAIMS EXPENDITURES RELATED TO TROPICAL STORM
FAY AND TO RECOGNIZE ANTICIPATED REINSURANCE
RECOVERIES - FOR REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT OF
DAMAGED PROPERTY WHICH THE COUNTY INCURRED
Item # 16E5
GRANT OF CONTRACTOR SERVICES FROM THE FLORIDA
FISH AND WILDLIFE CONSERVATION COMMISSION (FWC)
TO REMOVE INVASIVE EXOTIC VEGETATION WITHIN
CONSERVATION COLLIER PROPERTY ADJACENT TO
ROOKERY BAY NATIONAL ESTUARINE RESEARCH
RESERVE (NERR) - FOR THE REMOVAL OF INVASIVE
EXOTIC VEGETATION WITHIN THE CONSERVATION
COLLIER PROPERTY KNOWN AS THE MALT PROPERTY
Item # 16E6
TRANSFER OF FUNDS FROM THE COURTHOUSE ANNEX
PROJECT #52533.1 TO FACILITIES MANAGEMENT
OPERA TING ACCOUNT WITHIN THE GENERAL FUND IN
THE AMOUNT OF $138,673.20 TO REIMBURSE THE
OPERATING ACCOUNT FOR THE ELECTRIC POWER AND
POTABLE WATER CONSUMED BY THE GENERAL
CONTRACTOR (KRAFT CONSTRUCTION) DURING THE
CONSTRUCTION OF THE COURTHOUSE ANNEX
Item #16E7
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO THE WORKERS COMPENSATION
Page 270
May 26, 2009
FUND (518), FOR THE FUNDING OF THREE LARGE CLAIMS
IN THE AMOUNT OF $622~797
Item # 16E8
BUDGET AMENDMENTS PROVIDING SUFFICIENT FUNDING
TO OPERATE AND MAINTAIN THE COUNTY'S
INTERGOVERNMENTAL 800 MHZ RADIO SYSTEM FOR THE
REMAINDER OF FISCAL YEAR 2009 - PROVIDING RADIO
SERVICE TO THIRTY-SEVEN (37) PUBLIC SAFETY AND
GENERAL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES OR DEPARTMENTS
Item #16E9
SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE COLLIER COUNTY
EMERGENCY SERVICES MEDICAL CONSULTANT
CONTRACT WITH ROBERT BOYD TOBER, INC. FOR
AUTHORIZED COUNTY BUSINESS RELATED EXPENSES
AND RATIFIES PAYMENT OF SUCH BUSINESS RELATED
EXPENSES SINCE THE INCEPTION OF THE CONTRACT ON
SEPTEMBER 1,2001 - SUCH AS MAILINGS, OFFICE
SUPPLIES, TRAINING, EDUCATION, SEMINARS, AND
TRAVEL EXPENSES
Item #16EI0
BOARD TO DIRECT STAFF TO DRAFT A RESOLUTION FOR A
BURIAL AND CREMATION POLICY FOR UNCLAIMED AND
INDIGENT DECEASED IN COLLIER COUNTY - AT LAKE
TRAFFORD MEMORIAL GARDENS CEMETERY IN
IMMOKALEE
Page 271
May 26, 2009
Item #16Fl
RESOLUTION 2009-131: TEMPORARY WAIVER OF THE
CONDITIONAL USE REQUIREMENT, AND AUTHORIZE A
TEMPORARY LOCATION, FOR THE OCHOPEE FIRE
CONTROL AND RESCUE DISTRICT AT PORT OF THE
ISLANDS HOTEL, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO
SIGN A LEASE TO EFFECT SUCH APPROVAL
Item # 16F2
RESOLUTION 2009-132: RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS,
CONTRIBUTIONS OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2008-09 ADOPTED BUDGET
Item #16F3
GRANT APPLICATION AND AUTHORIZES ELECTRONIC
SUBMITTAL BY THE GRANTS OFFICE AND THE
EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT FOR THE
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, OFFICE OF
COMMUNITY ORIENTED POLICING SERVICES (COPS)
TECHNOLOGY PROGRAM IN THE AMOUNT OF $350,000 -
PROVING FOR PUBLIC SAFETY TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT,
INCLUDING COMPUTER SYSTEMS AND SOFTWARE,
WIRELESS TRANSMITTING DEVICES, MOBILE RADIO
REPEATER EQUIPMENT, INTERNET/INTRANET SWITCHES
AND UNINTERRUPTED POWER SUPPLIES FOR EOC
Item #16F4
Page 272
May 26, 2009
RESOLUTION 2009-133: REPEAL RESOLUTION NO. 2009-124,
WHICH ESTABLISHED LIMITATIONS ON OUTDOOR
BURNING DUE TO EXTREME DROUGHT CONDITIONS,
THEREBY ENDING THE BURN BAN, EFFECTIVE
IMMEDIA TEL Y
Item #16G 1
REJECT ALL PROPOSALS RECEIVED UNDER RFP #09-5154
FOR UPDATING THE BA YSHORE GATEWAY TRIANGLE CRA
REDEVELOPMENT PLAN AND MIXED USE OVERLAYS AND
TO AUTHORIZE STAFF TO RE-SOLICIT PROPOSALS
Item #16Hl
COMMISSIONER COLETTA'S REIMBURSEMENT
REGARDING ATTENDANCE AT A FUNCTION SERVING A
V ALID PUBLIC PURPOSE. HE ATTENDED ON MAY 04, 2009
THE NA TIONAL DAY OF PRAYER AT EVERGLADES CITY
HALL. $5.00 TO BE PAID FROM COMMISSIONER COLETTA'S
TRAVEL BUDGET - LOCATED AT 102 COPELAND AVE N,
EVERGLADES CITY
Item # 16H2
COMMISSIONER COLETTA'S REIMBURSEMENT
REGARDING ATTENDANCE AT A FUNCTION SERVING A
VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE. HE ATTENDED EAGLE SCOUT
COURT OF HONOR FOR JACOB KOCSES ON MAY 3, 2009 IN
NAPLES, FL. $5.00 TO BE PAID FROM COMMISSIONER
COLETTA'S TRAVEL BUDGET
Page 273
May 26, 2009
Item #1611
MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS TO FILE FOR RECORD WITH
ACTION AS DIRECTED
The following miscellaneous correspondence, as presented by the
Board of County Commissioners, has been directed to the various
departments as indicated:
Page 274
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
May 26, 2009
1. MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS TO FILE FOR RECORD WITH ACTION AS DIRECTED:
A. Minutes:
1) Airport Authority:
Minutes of March 9,2009.
2) Animal Services Advisory Board:
Minutes of March 17,2009.
3) Bavshore Beautification MSTU Advisory Committee:
Minutes of March 11, 2009.
4) Collier County Code Enforcement Board:
Minutes of January 22, 2009; February 26, 2009; February 26, 2009
workshop; March 26,2009.
5) County Government Productivity Committee:
Agenda of January 21,2009; February 18,2009; March 18,2009.
Minutes of January 21,2009; February 18,2009; March 18,2009.
a) Subcommittee to review Invoices from the Clerk:
Minutes of January 30,2009; February 18,2009; March 18,2009.
b) Budget Guidance Subcommittee:
Minutes of February 11,2009.
c) Minutes of Administration Subcommittee:
Minutes of April 1, 2009.
6) Golden Gate Community Center Advisory Committee:
Agenda of March 2, 2009; March 30, 2009.
Minutes of February 2, 2009; March 2, 2009; March 30, 2009 Budget
Workshop.
7) Historical! Archaeological Preservation Board:
Minutes of February 18,2009; March 25, 2009.
8) Immokalee Enterprise Zone Development Agency:
Agenda of March 18, 2009.
Minutes of March 18, 2009.
9) Immokalee Local Redevelopment Advisory Board:
Agenda of March 18,2009.
Minutes of March 18, 2009.
10) Immokalee Master Plan and Visioning Committee:
Agenda of March 18, 2009 joint w/CRA.
Minutes of March 18, 2009 joint w/CRA.
11) Isles of Capri Fire Control District Advisory Committee:
Minutes of March 5, 2009.
12) Land Acquisition Advisory Committee:
Minutes of March 9, 2009.
13) Library Advisory Board:
Agenda of April 15, 2009.
Minutes of March 18,2009.
14) Parks and Recreation Advisory Board:
Minutes of March 18,2009.
15) Pelican Bay Services Division Board:
Minutes of March 23,2009 - Management Review Committee.
16) Radio Road Beautification Advisory Committee:
Agenda of February 17,2009; March 17,2009.
Minutes of February 17,2009.
May 26, 2009
Item #16Jl
FINAL DISPOSITION OF FUNDS COLLECTED BY THE COURT
SYSTEM TO FUND THE JUVENILE ASSESSMENT CENTER.
THE CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT IS ACTING IN A
MINISTERIAL CAPACITY FOR THE ADMINISTRATION OF
THE CONTRACT WITH THE DAVID LAWRENCE CENTER
Item # 16J2
DISBURSEMENTS FOR THE PERIOD OF MAY 2, 2009
THROUGH MAY 8, 2009 AND FOR SUBMISSION INTO THE
OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE BOARD
Item # 16J3
DISBURSEMENTS FOR THE PERIOD OF MAY 9, 2009
THROUGH MAY 15,2009 AND FOR SUBMISSION INTO THE
OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE BOARD
Item #16Kl
COUNTY ATTORNEY TO INITIATE FORECLOSURE
PROCEEDINGS PURSUANT TO SECTION 162.09, FLORIDA
STATUTES, IN RELATION TO A $401,921.45 CODE
ENFORCEMENT LIEN, ARISING FROM CODE
ENFORCEMENT SPECIAL MAGISTRATE CASE NO. OSM
2006-080472, ENTITLED BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA VS. JEAN
CLAUDE MARTEL
Item #16K2
Page 275
May 26, 2009
COUNTY ATTORNEY TO FILE A LAWSUIT ON BEHALF OF
THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, AGAINST PATRICIA L. GALLOWAY AND
ATHENA A. GALLOW A Y IN COUNTY COURT SMALL
CLAIMS DIVISION IN AND FOR COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA, TO RECOVER DAMAGES IN THE AMOUNT OF
$2.616.66
Item #16K3
STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF
$110,000.00 FOR PARCEL 124 IN THE LAWSUIT STYLED
COLLIER COUNTY V. WILLIAM PILGER, ET AL., CASE NO.
06-1125-CA (COUNTY BARN ROAD PROJECT #60101) (FISCAL
IMPACT $49.670.00)
Item #16K4
COUNTY ATTORNEY TO INITIATE FORECLOSURE
PROCEEDINGS PURSUANT TO SECTION 162.09, FLORIDA
STATUTES, IN RELATION TO TEN (10) CODE
ENFORCEMENT LIENS, ARISING FROM CODE
ENFORCEMENT SPECIAL MAGISTRATE CASE NOS. 2006-
081081,2006-110049,2007-020244,2007-030057,2007-040275,
2007-070378,2007-070379,2007-080081,2007-080702,2008-
007987, ENTITLED BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS,
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA VS. HENRY TESNO AND JILL
WEA VER
Item #16K5
Page 276
May 26, 2009
COUNTY ATTORNEY TO ADVERTISE AN ORDINANCE
AMENDING THE COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING
COMMISSION ORDINANCE BY REQUIRING THAT
CANDIDATES FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION MUST BE
NOMINA TED BY THE COMMISSIONER OF THE DISTRICT IN
WHICH THE CANDIDATE RESIDES FOR BOTH INITIAL AND
SUBSEQUENT TERMS. THIS REQUEST IS CONTINGENT ON
THE BOARD THIS DATE ENACTING THE PROPOSED
ORDINANCE WHICH RELOCATES THE COLLIER COUNTY
PLANNING COMMISSION ORDINANCE FROM THE COLLIER
COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO THE CODE OF
LAWS AND ORDINANCES. (COMPANION TO ITEM 17G)
Item #16K6
COUNTY ATTORNEY TO ADVERTISE AN ORDINANCE
AMENDING THE ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL
ORDINANCE BY (1) REDUCING THE MEMBERSHIP FROM 9
TO 5 REGULAR MEMBERS, AND THE ALTERNATE
MEMBERS FROM 2 TO 1; (2) REDUCING THE TECHNICAL
MEMBERSHIP GUIDELINE FROM 6 TO 3 FOR THE REGULAR
MEMBERS, (3) REDUCING THE NON-TECHNICAL
MEMBERSHIP GUIDELINE FROM 3 TO 2 FOR THE REGULAR
MEMBERS; AND (4) REDUCING THE QUORUM AND VOTING
REQUIREMENT FROM 5 TO 3 MEMBERS. THIS REQUEST IS
CONTINGENT ON THE BOARD THIS DATE ENACTING THE
PROPOSED ORDINANCE WHICH RELOCATES THE
ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL ORDINANCE FROM
THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO
THE CODE OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES. (COMPANION TO
ITEM 17J)
Page 277
May 26, 2009
Item #17A
ORDINANCE 2009-25: PUDZ-2008-AR-13048, NADESHA
RANASINGHE REPRESENTED BY RICHARD YOV ANOVICH
OF GOODLETTE, COLEMAN & JOHNSON, PA AND RONALD
NINO OF VANASSE & DA YLOR, LLP ARE REQUESTING A
PUD REZONE FROM THE ESTATES (E) ZONING DISTRICT TO
THE COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (CPUD)
ZONING DISTRICT TO ALLOW A 45,000-SQUARE FOOT
COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT INCLUDING RETAIL,
SERVICE AND OFFICE USES TO BE KNOWN AS SINGER
PARK CPUD. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY, CONSISTING OF
5. 15+/-ACRES, IS LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF
EVERGLADES BOULEVARD AND IS APPROXIMA TEL Y 290
FEET SOUTH OF IMMOKALEE ROAD (CR 846) IN TRACT 128
OF GOLDEN GATES ESTATES, UNIT 47, IN SECTION 30,
TOWNSHIP 47 SOUTH, RANGE 28 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA (CTS)
Item #17B
ORDINANCE 2009-26: PUDA-2008-AR-13792 NAPLES
BOTANICAL GARDENS, INC. AND THE FLORIDA GULF
COAST UNIVERSITY FOUNDATION, INC., REPRESENTED BY
R. BRUCE ANDERSON, ESQ., OF ROETZEL AND ANDRESS;
AND MARGARET PERRY, AICP, OF WILSONMILLER, INC.,
ARE REQUESTING A PUD AMENDMENT FOR THE NAPLES
BOTANICAL GARDEN PUD (ORDINANCE 03-29). THE
APPROXIMATELY 171.2-ACRE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS
LOCATED IN SECTION 23, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH, RANGE 25
EAST. COLLIER COUNTY~ FLORIDA (CTS)
Page 278
May 26, 2009
Item #17C
RESOLUTION 2009-134: ABW-2009-AR-14359 THE MERCATO,
LLP, REPRESENTED BY D. WAYNE ARNOLD OF Q. GRADY
MINOR & ASSOCIATES, P.A., REQUESTING A WAIVER
PURSUANT TO SECTION 5.05.01 A.6. OF THE LDC TO
REDUCE THE SEP ARA TION OF 500 FEET BETWEEN
ESTABLISHMENTS SELLING ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES FOR
ON-PREMISE CONSUMPTION TO 25.6 FEET. THE SUBJECT
PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT UNIT 6160, MERCATO MPUD,
SECTION 34, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 25 EAST,
COLLIER COUNTY. FLORIDA
Item #17D
RESOLUTION 2009-135: A VESMT-2006-AR-I0989, 191
BA YFRONT DRIVE, TO DISCLAIM, RENOUNCE AND
VACATE THE COUNTYS AND THE PUBLICS INTEREST IN A
CERTAIN CONSERVATION EASEMENT, CREATED BY
COLLIER COUNTY RESOLUTION NO. 90-416, AND
RECORDED IN THE PUBLIC RECORDS OF COLLIER COUNTY
AT O.R. BOOK 1551, PAGES 2211 THROUGH 2221, OVER A
PORTION OF LOT 31, BA YFRONT GARDENS, A
SUBDIVISION AS RECORDED IN PLAT BOOK 14, PAGES 114
THROUGH 117, OF THE PUBLIC RECORDS OF COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA, SITUATED IN SECTION 6, TOWNSHIP 48
SOUTH, RANGE 25 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, AND
TO ACCEPT A REPLACEMENT CONSERVATION EASEMENT
LOCA TED ON THE SAME PARCEL
Item #17E
Page 279
May 26, 2009
ORDINANCE 2009-27: ORDINANCE DEREGULATING
TAXICAB AND CHARTER SERVICE RATES, ESTABLISHING
A CONSUMER ADVISORY BOARD, PROVIDING GUIDELINES
FOR OBTAINING VEHICLE FOR HIRE LICENSES,
ESTABLISHING PENALTIES FOR NON-COMPLIANCE,
REMOVING INDUSTRY PROTECTIONISM, AND THEREBY
CONDENSING THE PUBLIC VEHICLE FOR HIRE ORDINANCE
PROVISIONS, CONSISTENT WITH THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS' PREVIOUS DIRECTION (THIS ITEM IS A
COMPANION TO 16A4)
Item #17F
ORDINANCE 2009-28: ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE
NO. 91-107 AS AMENDED, WHICH CREATED THE FOREST
LAKES ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE MUNICIPAL SERVICE
TAXING UNIT (MSTU), TO INCLUDE INSTALLATION OF
SIDEWALKS AND RELATED AMENITIES, BEAUTIFICATION
AND MAINTENANCE OF AREAS WITHIN THE MSTU AS
DETERMINED BY THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Item #17G
ORDINANCE 2009-29: ORDINANCE RELOCATING THE
PLANNING COMMISSION ORDINANCE FROM THE COLLIER
COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO THE COLLIER
COUNTY CODE OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES WHILE
CONCURRENTLY REPEALING SECTION 8.03.00 OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE
Item #17H
Page 280
May 26, 2009
ORDINANCE 2009-30: ORDINANCE RELOCATING THE
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS ORDINANCE FROM THE
COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO THE
COLLIER COUNTY CODE OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES
WHILE CONCURRENTLY REPEALING SECTION 8.04.00 OF
THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE
Item #171
ORDINANCE 2009-31: ORDINANCE RELOCATING THE
BUILDING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AND APPEALS
ORDINANCE FROM THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND
DEVELOPMENT CODE TO THE COLLIER COUNTY CODE OF
LAWS AND ORDINANCES WHILE CONCURRENTLY
REPEALING SECTION 8.05.00 OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE
Item #17J
ORDINANCE 2009-32: ORDINANCE RELOCATING THE
ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL ORDINANCE FROM
THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO
THE COLLIER COUNTY CODE OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES
WHILE CONCURRENTLY REPEALING SECTION 8.06.00 OF
THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE
Item #17K
ORDINANCE 2009-33: ORDINANCE RELOCATING THE
HISTORIC/ ARCHAEOLOGIC PRESERVATION BOARD
ORDINANCE FROM THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND
DEVELOPMENT CODE TO THE COLLIER COUNTY CODE OF
Page 281
May 26, 2009
LAWS AND ORDINANCES WHILE CONCURRENTLY
REPEALING SECTION 8.07.00 OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE
Item #17L - Moved to Item #7 A (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #17M
RESOLUTION 2009-136: RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD,
TRANSFERS AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2008-09 ADOPTED BUDGET
Page 282
May 26, 2009
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 6:33 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
IL", d~.
DONNNFIALA, Chairman
A TTE,ST . r, ~
DWIGHT, E.BROCK, CLERK
''';.' ,
-~""~ te ON" .
s1tnature' M"i "1.\'"
These minutes approv~ the Board on j Lk\u 2~., 200 Cj
as presented l or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICES, INC., BY TERRI LEWIS.
Page 283