BCC Minutes 10/10/2023 DRAFTOctober 10, 2023
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, October 10, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present:
Chairman: Rick LoCastro
Chris Hall
Dan Kowal
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
Burt L. Saunders
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Daniel Rodriguez, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
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October 10, 2023
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Community Redevelopment Agency Board (CRAB)
Airport Authority
AGENDA
Board of County Commission Chambers
Collier County Government Center
3299 Tamiami Trail East, 3rd Floor
Naples, FL 34112
October 10, 2023
9:00 AM
Commissioner Rick LoCastro, District 1; – Chair
Commissioner Chris Hall, District 2; – Vice Chair
Commissioner Burt Saunders, District 3
Commissioner Dan Kowal, District 4; – CRAB Co-Chair
Commissioner William L. McDaniel, Jr., District 5; – CRAB Co-Chair
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE
ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO AN IN-PERSON SPEAKER BY
OTHER REGISTERED SPEAKERS WHO MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME
THE SPEAKER IS HEARD. NO PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE HEARD FOR
PROCLAMATIONS, PRESENTATIONS AND PUBLIC PETITIONS.
SPEAKERS ON PRESENTATIONS ARE LIMITED TO 10 MINUTES, UNLESS
EXTENDED BY THE CHAIRMAN. ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON A
CONSENT ITEM MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO THE BOARD’S APPROVAL
OF THE DAY’S CONSENT AGENDA, WHICH IS HEARD AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE MEETING FOLLOWING THE PLEDGE OF
ALLEGIANCE.
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October 10, 2023
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON PUBLIC PETITION
MUST SUBMIT THE REQUEST IN WRITING TO THE COUNTY MANAGER
AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE MEETING. THE
REQUEST SHALL PROVIDE DETAILED INFORMATION AS TO THE
NATURE OF THE PETITION. THE PUBLIC PETITION MAY NOT
INVOLVE A MATTER ON A FUTURE BOARD AGENDA AND MUST
CONCERN A MATTER IN WHICH THE BOARD CAN TAKE ACTION.
PUBLIC PETITIONS ARE LIMITED TO A SINGLE PRESENTER, WITH A
MAXIMUM TIME OF TEN MINUTES, UNLESS EXTENDED BY THE
CHAIRMAN. SHOULD THE PETITION BE GRANTED, THE ITEM WILL BE
PLACED ON A FUTURE AGENDA FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON GENERAL TOPICS
NOT ON THIS AGENDA OR A FUTURE AGENDA MUST REGISTER TO
SPEAK PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION OF THE AGENDA
BEING CALLED BY THE CHAIRMAN. SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO
THREE MINUTES, AND NO ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO
THE SPEAKER. AT THE CHAIRMAN’S DISCRETION, THE NUMBER OF
PUBLIC SPEAKERS MAY BE LIMITED TO 5 FOR THAT MEETING.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDING PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE
BASED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53 AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES
(INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE
BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, THE PROVISION OF
CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY
FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DIVISION LOCATED AT 3335 EAST TAMIAMI
TRAIL, SUITE 1, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112-5356, (239) 252-8380; ASSISTED
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October 10, 2023
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DIVISION.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M.
1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
A. Invocation by Reverend Beverly Duncan, Retired United Church of Christ
Minister
Invocation given
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of today's regular, consent and summary agenda as amended (ex
parte disclosure provided by commission members for consent agenda.)
Motion to approve by Commissioner McDaniel; Seconded by
Commissioner Hall - Approved and/or Adopted w/changes – 5/0
B. September 12, 2023, Board Meeting Minutes
Motion to approve by Commissioner McDaniel; Seconded by
Commissioner LoCastro - Approved as presented – 5/0
3. AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS
A. EMPLOYEE
1) 20 YEAR ATTENDEES
2) 25 YEAR ATTENDEES
3) 30 YEAR ATTENDEES
4) 35 YEAR ATTENDEES
B. ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS
C. RETIREES
D. EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH
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4. PROCLAMATIONS (All Proclamations Adopted with One Motion)
A. Proclamation designating October 2023 as Domestic Violence Awareness
Month in Collier County. To be accepted by Linda Oberhaus, Chief
Executive Officer, The Shelter for Abused Women & Children.
Motion to approve by Commissioner Kowal; Seconded by
Commissioner Saunders - Adopted 5/0
B. Proclamation designating October 2023 as Safe Infant Sleep Month in
Collier County. To be accepted by Kimberly Kossler, Administrator and
Health Officer, Florida Department of Health Collier County, Lisa
Adamczyk, Executive Community Health Nursing Director, Florida
Department of Health Collier County, Coral Vargas, Coordinator, NCH Safe
and Healthy Children's Coalition of Collier County, Kristine Hollingsworth,
Public Health Communications Manager, Florida Department of Health
Collier County, and Holly Vingson, Community Engagement Coordinator,
Healthy Start of Southwest Florida.
Motion to approve by Commissioner Kowal; Seconded by
Commissioner Saunders - Adopted 5/0
C. Proclamation designating October 2023 as National Manufacturing Month.
To be accepted by Rob Harris, Executive Director, Southwest Regional
Manufacturers Association and Alex Breault, Partnership Manager of the
Future Makers Coalition.
Motion to approve by Commissioner Kowal; Seconded by
Commissioner Saunders - Adopted 5/0
D. Presentation of the Collier County Business of the Month for October 2023
to Platinum Dry Cleaners. The award will be accepted by Craig Bamberg,
Owner/Managing Partner, and Sloan Nagy, Director of Business &
Economic Research, the Greater Naples Chamber of Commerce. Also
attending is Bethany Sawyer, Vice President of Membership & Investors,
the Greater Naples Chamber of Commerce.
Motion to approve by Commissioner Kowal; Seconded by
Commissioner Saunders - Adopted 5/0
5. PRESENTATIONS
A. Artist of the month – Arta Viva
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6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
7. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE CURRENT
OR FUTURE AGENDA
1) Robert Thurston – Targeted Individual Program
2) Doug Fee – County owned property at Wiggins Pass and 41;
Water flow way; Water management
3) Dan Cook – Fearful for speaking; Fear related to the border;
Americans need to push through the fear and have faith;
Continental Congress comments on Articles of Freedom
4) Tyler Wood – Manufacturing month is important; Carbotura
specializing in solid waste elimination and conversion
8. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
9. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. This item requires that Commission members provide ex-parte
disclosure. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants are
required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve an Ordinance
amending Ordinance Number 2000-88, the Cocohatchee Bay Residential
Planned Unit Development, increasing the dwelling units from 590 to 600;
changing the permitted uses in the Golf Course (GC) District; and increasing
the zoned height limitation of 17 stories and 175 feet for Building Five on
the north property line adjacent to Arbor Trace to match the maximum
zoned height of the other four buildings of 200 feet. The property is located
on the northwest and northeast corners of Wiggins Pass Road and Vanderbilt
Drive in Sections 8, 16, 17, and 20, Township 48 South, Range 25 East,
Collier County, Florida, consisting of 532.09+ acres. (PUDA-
PL20220001142) (This Item is a Companion to Item #12A) (District 2)
Ordinance 2023-46: Motion to adopt w/changes by Commissioner Hall;
Seconded by Commissioner McDaniel - Adopted 5/0
B. This item to be heard no sooner than 1 PM. This item requires that ex-
parte disclosure be provided by Commission members. Should a
hearing be held on this item, all participants are required to be sworn
in. Recommendation to approve an Ordinance to rezone 5.53± acres of
property from the Estates (E) zoning district to a commercial planned unit
development (CPUD) zoning district for a project to be known as 4050 13th
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Avenue Commercial Planned Unit Development to allow development of up
to 171,500 square feet of gross floor area of self-storage and mini-warehouse
(SIC 4225). The property is located southwest of the intersection of 13th
Avenue SW and Collier Boulevard, north of Green Boulevard in Section 15,
Township 49 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida.
[PL20210003321] (This Item is a Companion of Item #9C) (District 3)
Motion to continue to December 12, 2023, by Commissioner Saunders;
Seconded by Commissioner LoCastro – Continued 5/0
C. This item to be heard no sooner than 1 PM. Recommendation to approve
an Ordinance amending the Collier County Growth Management Plan to
change the designation of property from Estates-Mixed Use District,
Residential Estates Subdistrict to the Estates-Commercial District, 13th Ave
SW Commercial Infill Subdistrict within Urban Golden Gate Estates Sub-
Element of the Golden Gate Area Master Plan Element to allow up to
171,500 square feet of gross floor area of self-storage and mini-warehousing
(SIC 4225 The subject property consisting of 5.53± acres is located
southwest of the intersection of 13th Avenue SW and Collier Boulevard,
north of Green Boulevard in Section 15, Township 49 South, Range 26 East,
Collier County, Florida. [PL20220000289] (This Item is a Companion of
Item #9B) (District 3)
Motion to continue to December 12, 2023, by Commissioner Saunders;
Seconded by Commissioner LoCastro – Continued 5/0
D. This item to be heard prior to Item #15 - Staff and Commission General
Communications.
Ordinance 2023-47: Motion to adopt by Commissioner McDaniel;
Seconded by Commissioner Hall –Adopted 4/1 (Commissioner Saunders
opposed)
10. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
A. This item to be heard at 10 AM. Recommendation to hear a report on
Quiet Florida efforts and discuss the request by Quiet Florida to reduce the
noise pollution from illegal vehicle modifications. (All Districts)
Motion to have staff and the Sheriff’s office develop an educational
program and task force by Commissioner Saunders; Seconded by
Commissioner McDaniel – Approved 5/0
11. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
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A. Recommendation to approve the Conservation Collier 12th Cycle Target
Protection Areas (TPA) mailing strategy. (Jaime Cook, Development
Review Division Director) (All Districts)
Resolution 2023-186: Motion to approve by Commissioner McDaniel;
Seconded by Commissioner LoCastro - Approved 5/0
B. Recommendation to approve the Cycle 12A Conservation Collier Active
Acquisition List (AAL) and direct staff to pursue projects recommended
within the A-Category in sequential order funded by Conservation Collier
Land Acquisition Fund (1061) (Jaime Cook, Development Review Division
Director). (All Districts)
Motion to move Mcllvane Marsh property to the A list and approve as
presented by Commissioner McDaniel; Seconded by Commissioner
LoCastro – Approved 5/0
C. Recommendation to approve an Agreement for Sale and Purchase with (1)
Michelle Guth-Beach, as Trustee of the Lynn and Esther Wilson Revocable
Living Trust (“Wilson Trust”); (2), Mary L. Hackmann, as Trustee of the
Charles W. Hackmann and Mary L. Hackmann Revocable Living Trust
(“Hackmann Trust”); and (3) Patrick John Dibala and Nancy Gloria Wood,
as Co-Trustees of the Dibala Wood Trust (“Dibala Wood Trust”) under the
Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Program, at a cost not to exceed
$369,900 (Jaime Cook, Development Review Division Director). (District 5)
Motion to approve by Commissioner LoCastro; Seconded by
Commissioner McDaniel - Approved 5/0
D. Recommendation to consider termination of the Collier County Public
Library system’s annual membership with the American Library Association
and respective divisions. (Tanya Williams, Public Services Department
Head) (All Districts)
Motion to approve by Commissioner McDaniel; Seconded by
Commissioner Saunders - Approved 5/0
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
A. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners consider the
amendment to the Settlement Agreement and Release proposed by
Lodge/Abbott Associates, LLC, and Lodge/Abbott Investments Associates,
LLC (owners of the Cocohatchee Bay Planned Unit Development), to allow
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the Cocohatchee Bay Planned Unit Development to be amended, and
provide consent to the amendment of the Declaration of Covenants for Area
1 on the Golf Course Tract east of Vanderbilt Drive. (This Item a
Companion to Item #9A) (District 2)
Motion to approve w/changes by Commissioner Hall; Seconded by
Commissioner McDaniel - Approved 5/0
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY
A. AIRPORT
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
A. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS IN
THIS MEETING
B. STAFF PROJECT UPDATES
1) Rock crushing update – The rock crushing is complete. The
contractor is still condensing the rebar and that will take a little
bit longer. Everything should be gone by the end of October.
C. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
1) Amy Patterson – The Training and Manufacturing Institute
potentially may have a building available again for purchase and
will bring to the Board for approval; The County received an
inquiry about Bonita and Estero boat ramps; Asking us to lend a
hand to help; Need to have a consultant to start the conversation
with us about the budget policy before January; We may look at
Academic Institutes for preliminary work.
2) Mr. Rodriguez – Thank you for your support with the boat
launching and boat vehicle trailer parking spaces; Great
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partnership like Pelican Bay and some others in our community;
appreciate your support
3) Commissioner Kowal – New property for the tech school, that
timeline is crucial; Budget stuff, I like everything we’ve been
talking about, sooner rather than later something needs to be in
place
4) Commissioner Saunders – Conservation Ordinance and direction
to rework the Ordinance, when will we see work product from
that. Need changes quickly so we can make this program work.
CAO/Staff needs to come up with something and then take it to
the CCLAAC
5) Commissioner Hall – Has some ideas about Conservation Collier,
limited funds, time motivation. Today’s conversation and
working with you all, it felt good to be a Commissioner
6) Commissioner McDaniel – Likes the idea of the County Attorney
spear heading the adjustment to the Conservation Ordinance;
Likes idea of staff putting something together to take to CCLLAC
7) Commissioner LoCastro – County Manager we need update on
Golden Gate Golf Course, VA Hospital, Affordable Housing, First
Tee and the rebuild of Caxambus; A really good day for
witnessing engagement and flexibility; Commissioner negotiations
was well in play; Thank you Commissioner Kowal for starting the
meeting with comments about Israel; Thoughts and prayers going
out to that Country and our local Jewish Community.
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16. CONSENT AGENDA - All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the board, that item(s) will
be removed from the consent agenda and considered separately.
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Approved and/or Adopted w/changes – 5/0
A. GROWTH MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to recognize program income from the Immokalee
Culinary Accelerator in the amount of $19,130.77, appropriate the
funds to maintain and repair kitchen equipment purchased through the
United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) Rural Business
Development Grant and authorize all necessary Budget Amendments.
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(All Districts)
Grant Fund 1843, Project No. 33517
2) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution amending Resolution 2008-
331, relating to Stewardship Sending Area with a designation as
“CLH SSA 14;” approving the extension of certain dates to November
18, 2025, in the Stewardship Sending Area Credit Agreement for CLH
SSA 14 and the Escrow Agreement for CLH SSA 14. (District 5)
Resolution 2023-178
3) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution amending Resolution 2008-
329, relating to the Stewardship Sending Area with a designation as
“CLH & CDC SSA 15,” approving the extension of certain dates to
November 18, 2025, in the Stewardship Sending Area credit
agreement for CLH & CDC SSA 15 and the Escrow Agreement for
CLH & CDC SSA 15. (District 5)
Resolution 2023-179
4) Recommendation to accept the award and execute a grant agreement
between the County and the Florida Department of Environmental
Protection (FDEP) for the Resilient Florida Planning Grant Program
in the amount of $46,700, execute all necessary forms, and authorize
the necessary Budget Amendment. (Fund 1829) (All Districts)
B. TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve an Agreement for the acquisition of a fee
simple parcel (Parcel 104FEE), a Temporary Construction Easement
(Parcel 104TCE), a Temporary Driveway Restoration Easement
(104TDRE), and a Right of Entry (104ROE), required for
construction of the Vanderbilt Beach Road (US-41 to Goodlette-Frank
Road) Widening Project No. 60199. Estimated fiscal impact: $57,280.
(District 2)
2) Recommendation to approve the selection committee’s ranking and
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authorize staff to begin contract negotiations with Jacobs Engineering
Group Inc., related to Request for Professional Services (“RPS”) No.
23-8103 for “Golden Gate City Water Resource Protection -
Restoration Master Plan,” and direct staff to bring a proposed
Agreement back for the Board’s consideration at a future meeting.
(District 3)
3) Recommendation to authorize the necessary budget amendment to
reallocate funds in the Stormwater CIP Fund (3050) for a total amount
of $6,488,000. (All Districts)
4) Recommendation to provide after-the-fact approval for the submittal
of two Congestion Management project applications to the Collier
Metropolitan Planning Organization for the Fiscal Year 2030 cycle in
the total amount of $2,285,000. (All Districts)
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve a Utility Agreement between CSC Farm,
LLC (Developer), and the Board of County Commissioners of Collier
County, Florida, acting ex-officio as the Governing Board of the
Collier County Water Sewer District (District), setting forth the terms
and conditions for providing potable water, wastewater and irrigation
quality water services within the Collier Rod and Gun Club at the
Preserve (the Development). (This Item a Companion to Items #17A
& #17B) (District 5)
2) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign a
Florida Department of Emergency Management Hazard Mitigation
Grant Program contract modification number four for fifty-three (53)
portable generators extending the period of performance (Contract
#H0419). (All Districts)
D. PUBLIC SERVICES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve and authorize the chairman to sign one
(1) Release of Lien for full payment in the amount of $11,296.25,
pursuant to Agreement for Deferral of 100% of Collier County Impact
Fees for Owner-Occupied Affordable Housing Dwellings. (General
Fund 0001) (All Districts)
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As detailed in the Executive Summary
2) Recommendation to approve a Release of Lien in the amount of
$15,981.90 for full payment of an Immokalee Area Residential Impact
Fee Deferral approved as part of an impact fee deferral program for
properties located within the Immokalee Enterprise Zone. (All
Districts)
As detailed in the Executive Summary
3) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign a
State Housing Initiatives Partnership Sponsor Agreement for new
construction assistance with Habitat for Humanity of Collier County,
Inc. (Sponsor), and authorize the Chairman to release the Sponsor’s
promissory note and mortgage following construction and upon sale
to an eligible homebuyer. (SHIP Grant Fund 1053) (All Districts)
E. CORPORATE BUSINESS OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to authorize routine and customary Budget
Amendments appropriating carry forward budget in the amount of
$10,759,240.49 for approved open purchase orders into Fiscal Year
2024. (All Districts)
F. COUNTY MANAGER OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to approve the Fourth Extension and Amendment to
Interlocal Agreement between Collier County and the City of Naples
governing the use of City of Naples beach parking facilities and park
and recreation programs extending the term to September 30, 2024.
(All Districts)
2) Recommendation to renew the annual Certificate of Public
Convenience and Necessity (COPCN) for Ambitrans Medical
Transport, Inc., to provide Class 2 Advanced Life Support (ALS)
inter-facility transport ambulance service for a period of one year. (All
Districts)
3) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign a
modification number one to the Federally Funded Subgrant Program
agreement through the Florida Division of Emergency Management
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October 10, 2023
(FDEM) to extend the period of performance by six months for the
annual Emergency Management Performance (EMPG) Grant G0380
and authorize necessary Budget Amendments (Fund 1833, Project No.
33820). (All Districts)
4) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution approving amendment
(appropriating grants, donations, contributions, or insurance proceeds)
to the Fiscal Year 2023-24 Adopted Budget. (The Budget
Amendments in the attached Resolution have been reviewed and
approved by the Board of County Commissioners via separate
Executive Summaries.) (All Districts)
Resolution 2023-180
5) Recommendation to approve administratively approved Change Order
No. 1 adding $40,828.35 to Purchase Order No. 4500223989 under
Agreement No. 19-7592, Building Automation Energy Management
Services, with Juice Technologies, Inc., d/b/a Plug Smart, to repair
defective actuators on the Air Handler Units for the HVAC and Fire
Smoke Control System at the Collier County Courthouse Annex
(Building L1). (Project No. 52163) (District 1)
6) Recommendation to approve Non-Standard Agreement #23-037-NS,
“Governmental Management System (“GovMax”) and authorize
expenditures through an exemption from the competitive process
through the GovMax Hosted Application Service and License
Agreement from Sarasota County Government for Fiscal Years 2024
through 2029. (All Districts)
7) Recommendation to approve administrative Change Order No. 2
adding seventy (70) days to Agreement No. 21-7883-ST, Main
Campus Chiller Plant Upgrades, with O-A-K/Florida, Inc., d/b/a
Owen-Ames-Kimball Company and authorize the Chairman to sign
the attached change order. (Projects #50214 and #50189) (District 1)
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
1) Recommendation to award Construction Invitation to Bid (“ITB”) No.
23-8120, “Bulk Aircraft Hangar at Marco Island Executive Airport
(“MKY”),” to DEC Contracting Group, Inc., in the amount of
$3,063,009.41, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached
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Agreement. (District 1)
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
I. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1) Request that the Board of County Commissioners approve the use of
$500 from the Confiscated Trust Funds to support the Florida Sheriffs
Youth Ranches. (All Districts)
2) To record in the minutes of the Board of County Commissioners, the
check number (or other payment method), amount, payee, and
purpose for which the referenced disbursements in the amount of
$33,995,787.99 were drawn for the periods between September 14,
2023, and September 27, 2023, pursuant to Florida Statute 136.06.
(All Districts)
3) Request that the Board approve and determine valid public purpose
for invoices payable and purchasing card transactions as of October 4,
2023. (All Districts)
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1) Recommendation to appoint a member of the Affordable Housing
Advisory Committee as a non-voting representative to the
Development Services Advisory Committee. (All Districts)
Resolution 2023-181; Hannah Roberts w/ term expiring October
1, 2026
2) Recommendation to reappoint a member to the Golden Gate
Beautification Advisory Committee. (District 3)
Resolution 2023-182; Paula Rogan w/ term expiring October 6,
2027
3) Recommendation to approve a Stipulated Final Judgment in the total
amount of $48,500 plus $17,986.50 in statutory attorney fees, and
experts’ fees and costs for the taking of Parcel 1181RDUE required
for the Vanderbilt Beach Road Extension Project No. 60168 required
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October 10, 2023
for the Vanderbilt Beach Road Extension Project No. 60168. (All
Districts)
4) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chair to execute a
Settlement Agreement in the lawsuit styled Cynthea Hummer v.
Collier County Board of Commissioners, et. al., (Case No. 22-CA-
1647), now pending in the Circuit Court of the Twentieth Judicial
Circuit in and for Collier County, Florida, for the sum of $9,900. (All
Districts)
L. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
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17. SUMMARY AGENDA - This section is for advertised public hearings and
must meet the following criteria: 1) a recommendation for approval from
staff; 2) unanimous recommendation for approval by the collier county
planning commission or other authorizing agencies of all members present
and voting; 3) no written or oral objections to the item received by staff, the
collier county planning commission, other authorizing agencies, or the board,
prior to the commencement of the bcc meeting on which the items are
scheduled to be heard; and 4) no individuals are registered to speak in
opposition to the item. For those items which are quasi-judicial in nature, all
participants must be sworn in.
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Adopted – 5/0
A. This item requires that all participants be sworn in and Commission
members provide ex-parte disclosure. Recommendation to approve a
Resolution designating 259.6 acres as the Collier Rod and Gun Club at the
Preserve Compact Rural Development Stewardship Receiving Area, which
will allow the development of a maximum of 225 single-family residential
dwelling units; a minimum of 2,250 and a maximum of 5,000 square feet of
commercial development and approve a credit agreement establishing that
2,229 Stewardship Credits are being utilized by the designation of the
Collier Rod and Gun Club at the Preserve Compact Rural Development
Stewardship Receiving Area; and providing for repeal of Resolution 85-151,
a Provisional Use for oil and gas exploration, and Resolution 02-87, an
expired Conditional Use. The subject property is located south of Oil Well
Road, approximately ½ mile west of S.R. 29 in Sections 18, 19, 24, and 30,
Township 48 South, Range 30 East, Collier County, Florida.
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October 10, 2023
[PL20210002776] (This Item a Companion to Items #16C1 & #17B)
(District 5)
Resolution 2023-183
B. This item requires that ex-parte disclosure be provided by
Commission members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all
participants are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve a
Resolution of the Board of Zoning Appeals of Collier County, Florida
providing for the establishment of a conditional use for a project known as
the Collier Rod and Gun Club at the Preserve to allow a golf course and a
sporting and recreational camp on property zoned Rural Agricultural (A)
within the Mobile Home Overlay (MHO) and Rural Lands Stewardship Area
Zoning Overlay District (RLSAO) and Big Cypress Area of Critical State
Concern Special Treatment Overlay (ACSC-ST) pursuant to Sections
2.03.01.A.1.c.17 and 2.03.01.A.1.c.20 of the Collier County Land
Development Code for a 911.42+/- acre property located south of Oil Well
Road (C.R. 858) and west side of State Road 29 in Sections 18, 19, 20, 29
and 30, Township 48 South, Range 30 East, and Sections 23 and 24,
Township 48 South, Range 29 East, Collier County, Florida.
[PL20210002843] (This Item a Companion to Items #16C1 & #17A)
(District 5)
Resolution 2023-184
C. Recommendation to adopt a resolution approving amendments
(appropriating carry forward, transfers, and supplemental revenue) to the
Fiscal Year 2023-24 Adopted Budget. (All Districts)
Resolution 2023-185
D. This item requires the Commission members to provide ex-parte
disclosure. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants are
required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve a rezoning
ordinance for the PFCF/NSV Immokalee MPUD to allow up to 250
horizontal multifamily dwelling units, 170 of which will be restricted as
affordable, and a 250-student early childhood education center, on 50± acres
located northeast of the intersection of Westclox Street and Carson Road in
Immokalee, in Section 29, Township 46 South, Range 29 East, Collier
County, Florida. [PL20220004087] (District 5)
Ordinance 2023-44
E. Recommendation to adopt an Ordinance repealing Ordinance Nos. 2018-21
Page 17
October 10, 2023
and 2019-46, as codified in Sections 126-86 through 126-191 of the Code of
Laws and Ordinances of Collier County, the Local Government
Infrastructure Surtax which imposed a County-wide Infrastructure Surtax
and established the Infrastructure Surtax Citizen Oversight Committee with
the exception that the Infrastructure Surtax Citizen Oversight Committee
shall continue in the manner set forth in the Ordinance or until the Board
deems otherwise. (All Districts)
Ordinance 2023-45
18. ADJOURN
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD’S AGENDA SHOULD
BE MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER’S OFFICE AT 252-8383.
October 10, 2023
Page 2
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Get Commissioner Saunders
up here.
Good morning, everybody.
AUDIENCE: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thanks for being here.
We've got a lot of hot issues to talk about.
Before we get started with our invocation and pledge, you
know, I just wanted to say that today and other days in this
room, you know, we talk about permits, we talk about building
height, median landscape, sidewalks, pickleball, all things that
are important issues to our county and to move forward and to
ensure that we continue to improve and make this the best place
to, you know, live, work, play, and pray, but also I think we all
think that it's important that, you know, we don't lose
perspective on what's going on outside of this building and,
more importantly, you know, in our country and outside of the
borders of our country.
And having said that, I'm going to turn it over to
Commissioner Kowal who wants to start off our meeting with
some heartfelt words about some serious issues that are going on
right now that might be a little bit more important than
pickleball.
Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I would just like to let the community and the people here
in the room and the people outside watching know that, you
know, we have Pastor Brumback, who's the pastor at the First
Baptist Church here in Naples, him and his daughter and, I
believe, about 50 parishioners of the church itself are basically
trapped over in Israel right now. They were over there on the
October 10, 2023
Page 3
Holy Land visit and they're, basically, in a hotel being confined.
They can't really leave, haven't figured out a way they're going
to leave yet but -- because of what's going on in light of the war
over there.
So these are our community people and people that live
amongst us. Let's just keep them in our prayers as we move
forward, and hopefully we can figure out a way and hopefully
they figure out a way under God's grace that they can get out of
there safely and come back to us. So I just wanted to let
everybody know that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well said. Thank you, sir.
Reverend Duncan, ma'am.
And then our Pledge today will be led by Alex Breault,
who's here representing the FutureMakers Coalition, who are
receiving a proclamation. So thank you very much for leading
our pledge.
REVEREND DUNCAN: Spirit of life and love, to you we
lift the deliberations of this day as matters of governance come
before this body. Surround all of us as we, together, move
through this democratic process and this day. Urge both
commissioners and all of us to listen, to learn, to be bearers of
the good even when we'd rather not.
And so, peaceful spirit, be present among these women and
men who are the leaders and caretaker of Collier County. It is
an awesome calling and responsibility. Guide all that they and
we together say and do, shape our words and values today and
always, and keep us all strong and wise in these unsettled and
troubling times, and inspire us to take our parts, that none may
be overburdened. And our part this morning is certainly a
special prayer for all of those suffering in Israel and Gaza and
especially local people, some of whom we know personally.
October 10, 2023
Page 4
And when the meeting is ended, see each commissioner to
his or her destination safely. As they rest toward service on yet
another day, fill them with strength and hope and vision, and
bless us all that we might lean on you and on one another toward
things that heal what's broken and that bend toward justice.
Shalom.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
Item #2A
APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX PARTE DISCLOSURE
PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR CONSENT
AGENDA.) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HALL -
APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED W/CHANGES
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, agenda changes for
October 10th, 2023. We have a correction to Item 11B related
to the date that parcels in the North Belle Meade Preserve were
acquired. The executive summary incorrectly states
November 2023. The correct date is November 2022.
We have several time-certain items today. First, Item 10A
to be heard at 10 a.m. This is a Quiet Florida report on efforts
to reduce noise pollution from illegal vehicle modifications.
Companion Items 9B and 9C to be heard no sooner than
1 p.m. This is the 13th Avenue Southwest storage facility
Commercial Planned Unit Development and Growth
Management Plan amendment.
And Item 9D to be heard prior to Item 15, staff
communication general -- and general communications. This is
October 10, 2023
Page 5
at the -- towards the end of the meeting. This is an amendment
to the Conservation Collier ordinance.
Just a reminder, we have court reporter breaks set for 10:30
and 2:50.
And with that, County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing, thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, to you for any changes to the
agenda or ex parte on the consent or summary agenda.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal, do you
have any changes, sir, or any ex parte on summary or consent?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I have no changes, and I
have no disclosures.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
Commissioner Saunders?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No changes and no
disclosure as well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall?
COMMISSIONER HALL: I have no changes. I do have
meetings on 17A and 17B, and no disclosures after that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner
McDaniel?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No changes, but I do
have disclosure on 17A, meetings and calls; B, meetings, calls,
and emails; and, 17D, meetings and calls.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I have no changes and
no disclosures on summary or consent.
So do I have a motion to accept the --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion
from Commissioner McDaniel. Second by Commissioner Hall.
October 10, 2023
Page 6
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
SEE REVERSE SIDE
Proposed Agenda Changes
Board of County Commissioners Meeting
October 10, 2023
Notes: Correction to Item 11B related to the date that parcels in the North Belle Meade Preserve were acquired.
The Executive Summary incorrectly states November 2023 the correct date is November 2022.
TIME CERTAIN ITEMS:
Item 10A to be heard at 10 AM: Quiet Florida report on efforts to reduce noise pollution from illegal vehicle
modifications.
Companion items 9B and 9C to be heard no sooner than 1 PM: 13th Ave SW Storage Facility Commercial
Planned Unit Development (CPUD) and Growth Management Plan Amendment (GMPA).
Item 9D to be heard prior to Item 15 – Staff and Commission General Communications: Amendment to the
Conservation Collier Ordinance.
11/29/2023 2:45 PM
October 10, 2023
Page 7
Item #2B
SEPTEMBER 12, 2023, BOARD MEETING MINUTES
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO - APPROVED
AS PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 2B is approval of the meeting
minutes for September 12th, 2023.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I make a motion for
approval.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Motion for approval by
Commissioner McDaniel. I'll second, Commissioner LoCastro.
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING OCTOBER 2023 AS
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AWARENESS MONTH IN COLLIER
COUNTY. TO BE ACCEPTED BY LINDA OBERHAUS, CHIEF
EXECUTIVE OFFICER, THE SHELTER FOR ABUSED WOMEN
& CHILDREN. - MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS –
October 10, 2023
Page 8
ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4A is a proclamation designating
October 2021 as Domestic Violence Awareness Month in
Collier County to be accepted by Sheriff Rambosk on behalf of
the Shelter for Abused Women and Children. Congratulations.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sheriff, would you like to
make any comments?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Sure. Good morning,
Commissioners, Chair. Thank you for the opportunity here to
represent the shelter. On behalf of the board of directors and
Linda Oberhaus, I just wanted to thank you for raising
awareness with regard to domestic violence issues. We are not
unlike or immune to domestic violence as is other communities
throughout the nation. This month gives us an opportunity to
remind everyone that it still exists. We need everybody's help
in this community to stop it. And on behalf of the Collier
County Sheriff's Office, we will do everything we can to stop it.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
(Applause.)
Item #4B
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING OCTOBER 2023 AS SAFE
INFANT SLEEP MONTH IN COLLIER COUNTY. TO BE
ACCEPTED BY KIMBERLY KOSSLER, ADMINISTRATOR
AND HEALTH OFFICER, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH COLLIER COUNTY, LISA ADAMCZYK, EXECUTIVE
COMMUNITY HEALTH NURSING DIRECTOR, FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH COLLIER COUNTY, CORAL
October 10, 2023
Page 9
VARGAS, COORDINATOR, NCH SAFE AND HEALTHY
CHILDREN'S COALITION OF COLLIER COUNTY, KRISTINE
HOLLINGSWORTH, PUBLIC HEALTH COMMUNICATIONS
MANAGER, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH COLLIER
COUNTY, AND HOLLY VINGSON, COMMUNITY
ENGAGEMENT COORDINATOR, HEALTHY START OF
SOUTHWEST FLORIDA. - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4B is a proclamation designating
October 2023 as Safe Infant Sleep Month in Collier County to
be accepted by Kimberly Kossler, administrator and health
officer, Florida Department of Health, Collier County, and other
distinguished guests.
Congratulations.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Go ahead,
Ms. Kimberly.
MS. KOSSLER: I didn't want to catch him off guard.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, I'm sorry.
MS. KOSSLER: I just wanted to say a few words. Good
morning again. Kim Kossler, administrator with the Florida
Department of Health in Collier County.
Sudden infant death syndrome or SIDS and sleep-related
deaths continue to be the number-one injury-related death for
children under the age of one.
The Collier County Safe Sleep Committee works together
to help educate about safe sleep year-round. Some of the things
that we're doing, providing safe sleep books and information to
all newborns at the NCH Birth Center, our statistics and birth
records office, the WIC program and, of course, the annual duck
October 10, 2023
Page 10
race and water safety festival.
We have pack-and-plays that are provided to families in
need through NCH, Department of Children and Families, the
Health Department, and Healthy Start of Southwest Florida.
Healthy Start of Southwest Florida has also donated enough
sleep sacks to be available for all babies born in Southwest
Florida at the NCH BirthPlace.
NCH is also working on their safe sleep recertification,
which is recognizing their commitment to infant safe sleep.
And there's plenty of free downloadable resources available at
the floridahealth.gov website and others.
Thank you again for your time in recognizing and
promoting safe sleep education and awareness to help save more
babies' lives.
(Applause.)
Item #4C
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING OCTOBER 2023 AS
NATIONAL MANUFACTURING MONTH. TO BE ACCEPTED
BY ROB HARRIS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SOUTHWEST
REGIONAL MANUFACTURERS ASSOCIATION AND ALEX
BREAULT, PARTNERSHIP MANAGER OF THE FUTURE
MAKERS COALITION. - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4C is a proclamation designating
October 2023 as National Manufacturing Month to be accepted
by Rob Harris, executive director, Southwest Regional
Manufacturers Association, and Alex Breault, partnership
October 10, 2023
Page 11
manager of the FutureMakers Coalition. Congratulations.
MR. HARRIS: Good morning, and thank you, County
Manager and Commissioners. We appreciate this, and thank
you very much for recognizing the importance of manufacturing
to the local economy. It is very important. The State of
Florida recognizes that it's very important.
With the Florida Chamber, it is the goal of our state to be a
top five manufacturing state by the year 2030, and I'm happy to
announce that it was just reported we are now No. 10, so we are
getting there.
The importance of that is the fact that manufacturing and
advanced manufacturing, in particular, offer high-wage careers.
The average wage for manufacturing in the state is $70,000 per
year, and in Collier County, it's just slightly under that, at about
68,7-.
Collier County has nearly 400 manufacturing facilities
employing over 5,000 people. We want to continue this effort.
We want people to have high-wage jobs. If you recall from last
year, I was here with the owner of Pelican Wire, and we were
talking about the affordable housing issue and that a way to
conquer that is to have people earn more money to pay market
wage [sic] for housing, and in manufacturing, we could do that.
The problem right now is we have a shortage of workers.
So we have started working -- we, being the Southwest Regional
Manufacturers Association, started working with the
FutureMakers Collaboratory, and I have Alexander Breault here
with me to explain what that effort is all about.
MS. BREAULT: Thank you, Rob, and thank you, County
Commissioners.
So my name is Alex Breault. I am the partnership
manager at Collaboratory, and I'm a FutureMaker. So
October 10, 2023
Page 12
FutureMakers Coalition, we are a collective impact network.
We have over 5 -- sorry, 150 cross-sector organizations
spanning the five-county region focused on adult learners,
specifically in Collier County, to upscale and rescale to meet the
needs of local employers.
We have a shared goal to transform the region's workforce
to ensure that 55 percent of adults have a credential beyond high
school by 2025. We are currently only at 43.7 percent, and we
know that two-thirds of Florida jobs will require credentials
beyond high school by 2025, but we can get to 55 percent
through an untapped workforce, and we have partnered with
Rob and SRMA through the $22.9 million EDA Good Jobs
Challenge Grant in partnership with FGCU to help us
understand the needs of manufacturers and ensuring adults have
access to training programs, to fill the in-demand jobs through
the navigator program. Our navigators are helping individuals
overcome barriers to reach their educational goals and connect
them to careers like jobs in manufacturing.
We are happy to be here today to bring awareness to local
manufacturers and hopefully inspire people to consider the
lucrative jobs in manufacturing.
So thank you to SRMA for their partnership and, County
Commissioner, for recognizing October as manufacturing
month, and let's keep on future making. Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
Item #4D
PRESENTATION OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BUSINESS OF
THE MONTH FOR OCTOBER 2023 TO PLATINUM DRY
October 10, 2023
Page 13
CLEANERS. THE AWARD WILL BE ACCEPTED BY CRAIG
BAMBERG, OWNER/MANAGING PARTNER, AND SLOAN
NAGY, DIRECTOR OF BUSINESS & ECONOMIC RESEARCH,
THE GREATER NAPLES CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. ALSO
ATTENDING IS BETHANY SAWYER, VICE PRESIDENT OF
MEMBERSHIP & INVESTORS, THE GREATER NAPLES
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4D is a presentation of the Collier
County Business of the Month for October 2023 to Platinum
Dry Cleaners. The award will be accepted by Craig Bamberg,
owner/managing partner, and Sloan Nagy, director of business
and economic research, the Greater Naples Chamber of
Commerce. Also attending is Bethany Sawyer, vice president
of membership and investors, the Greater Naples Chamber of
Commerce. Congratulations.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It's up to you if you'd like to
say something, sir. Totally up to you.
MR. BAMBERG: Again, we can't thank everybody
enough. We are Platinum Dry Cleaners, an independent Collier
County business based -- full-service dry cleaning and laundry
operation with two retail locations at Parkshore Naples and
Berkshire Naples, right at the corner of Radio and Santa Barbara
Road.
We have a 12,000-square-foot processing facility at 73
Commercial Boulevard, which is right at Radio and Livingston
Roads, and the facility is also our delivery hub for eight delivery
vehicles that has grown quite a bit since the pandemic from
three up to eight.
October 10, 2023
Page 14
We deliver from Alico Road in Lee County all the way
down to the tip of Marco Island, from the coast all the way east
out toward Ave Maria and Immokalee.
Most importantly, this is a business award from the Naples
Area Chamber of Commerce coming through the Collier County
Commission as well, and we just want to advise everybody, we
have 40 full-time employees at our operation and -- since our
purchase in 2019, and we feel that's extremely important. No
one was -- we had no layoffs during the pandemic. We just had
some changes in hourly operations. And it's been a long, hard
road since 2019 to stand here in front of you and tell you, like,
we're still kind of standing and kind of chugging along leading
up to our 35th anniversary in 2024. I see we're celebrating 100
years here in 2023 for Collier County. We enter our 35th year
in 2024.
It's been a big 2023 for us. Small Business Development
Council of Florida based at Florida Gulf Coast University
nominated us for a finalist for entrepreneurship of the year. Of
course, we're thrilled to have the Naples Area Chamber of
Commerce Business of the Month here today as well as we were
named in America's Best Dry Cleaner one of the 35 out of
20,000 dry cleaners in the United States. We are proud to say
we are one of 35, and the reason being is is 35 years of our
high-quality attention to detail, delicate hand-washing, finishing.
We're open from 8 to 5 Monday through Friday, 9 until 2 on
Saturdays; 24 hours, seven days a week at the Platinum app
available in the Apple store, and for those on the Google plate,
we can take care of you for your android device as well.
Again, thank you so much for this honor. It's been a long,
hard five years, and we're looking forward to the next five as
well. Thank you so much.
October 10, 2023
Page 15
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: He'll be collecting articles of
clothing outside the door for 50 percent off.
Okay, County Manager.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, if we could get a
motion to accept the proclamations, please.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do I have a motion?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner
Kowal, motion.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Second by Commissioner
Saunders. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Item #5A
ARTIST OF THE MONTH – ARTA VIVA
MS. PATTERSON: Item 5A is Artist of the Month. This
month is Arte Viva, and this will be introduced by Sandra Rios,
PR and communications manager, tourism division.
MS. RIOS: Good morning, and thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Good morning.
October 10, 2023
Page 16
MS. RIOS: So thank you for allowing me a few minutes
to share our news from the world of arts and culture within our
community. As you look around the chamber, there are a
number of new art installations -- you'll see them in the back of
the room here -- representing the upcoming Arte Viva exhibits
that will take place across Collier County this coming year.
Arte Viva is now in its second year, and it's a celebration of
Hispanic arts and culture presented by the Naples, Marco Island,
and Everglades Convention and Visitors Bureau. The
collaborative initiative brings together the arts and culture
organizations and hospitality partners from across
paradise -- Florida's Paradise Coast to communally celebrate the
artist contributions of the Hispanic community.
The spotlight on this rich and vibrant culture within our
community will be brought to life by various non-profit
organizations, local restaurants and hospitality partners. It's a
year-long celebration that will feature over 50 dedicated local
events, exhibits, performances, and educational opportunities.
Some of the locations where these events will take place include
Artis-Naples, Naples Art District, Opera Naples, public murals,
Naples Zoo, Naples Botanical Garden, Marco Island Center for
the Arts, and the Ave Maria Margarita and Taco Festival, which
sounds like fun.
Celebrations include the Mexican dia de los Muertos,
which is the Day of the Dead; Cuban photography exhibits;
dance performances featuring Zarzuela music and Flamenco; a
series of Latin jazz concerts, and more.
Arte Viva enhances our visitor experience as well as
offering our residents educational and entertainment
opportunities throughout the year. These photographs represent
events that will take place through June of 2024, and they
October 10, 2023
Page 17
include locations: Marco Island, Ave Maria, Naples, and
Immokalee.
Last year, Arte Viva proved to be highly successful with
over 293,000 people attending the various events and activities,
and the CVB's marketing efforts generated over 50 million
impressions, including 24 million impressions in earned media,
which is different from paid advertising.
And, most recently, I'm proud to say that Arte Viva was
recognized by Florida Festivals and Event Association with two
awards. One, first place award for its PR and marketing
campaign, and the third place for its website, so that's quite an
accomplishment in the first year of a festival.
So we hope you enjoy the art and the upcoming events this
year. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
(Applause.)
Item #7
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to
Item 7, public comments on general topics not on the current or
future agenda.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller.
MR. MILLER: Good morning, Mr. Chair. We have four
registrants under this item. Your first speaker Robert Thurston.
He will be followed by Doug Fee. I'll remind our speakers to
please queue up at both podiums.
MR. THURSTON: Good morning.
October 10, 2023
Page 18
Hello, my name is Robert Thurston. So let's recap here.
I've been speaking before the Collier County Board of County
Commissioners recently on July 25, August 22nd, and
September 12th of 2023 about the Targeted Individual Program
and people, some here in Naples, who are involved in deep state
activities and who have been violating my constitutional rights
on an ongoing basis for 13 years. You can watch these earlier
discussions on Collier TV.
During the last Board meeting, I explained how the
Targeted Individual Program starts with the deep state at the
highest reaches of our U.S. government and is disseminated
downward through different agencies. Then the Targeted
Individual Program is finally coordinated and carried out locally
by each county sheriff, here Kevin Rambosk. Kevin Rambosk,
who has been sheriff here in Collier County since at least 2010.
Kevin Rambosk then has been in charge of the Targeted
Individual Program here in Naples throughout the full length of
the period I've been targeted.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, just a reminder, you're
talking to us, okay, not the crowd.
MR. THURSTON: Yeah. I want to make clear that there
is a clear distinction between regular everyday law enforcement
arresting people committing crimes and,
conversely -- conversely what occurs with targeted individuals
who often are not involved in crime but chosen for
life-changing, around-the-clock haranguing because they
basically anger someone with access to political power.
The targeted individual is denied due process. He or she
never gets their day in court but get extra judicial punishment
instead, which if you look at the totality of what the deep state
does, certainly qualifies as torture.
October 10, 2023
Page 19
It's important to remember, I think, that these presentations
should be tailored to benefit the community. The word
"torture" gets bandied around a lot, and its impact is sometimes
lost through overuse.
So I'm including today my personal account of one of the
most egregious crimes committed against me in hopes people
will take some legal activities to stop the deep state and the
Targeted Individual Program.
On August 11 of 2011, I was a patient at Naples
Community Hospital. I was receiving lifesaving medical care
for a case of cellulitis, which, left untreated, can spread to the
lymph nodes and blood stream. Left unchecked, cellulitis can
be fatal. I was in pretty bad shape by the time I was admitted to
Naples Community Hospital. I had a fever. I was given a
hospital bed and hooked up to several IV tubes.
By this time in 2011, I'd already been a targeted individual
for more than a year. I had already figured out who the main
person was behind my targeting. At about 5 a.m. on my first
day in the hospital, I was violently shaken awake by a
stern-faced man who was dressed in clothing similar to that of a
male nurse, what they would wear, but not exactly alike, I later
concluded. His demeanor was openly hostile. His face was up
in my face. His tone was meant to frighten. He was
demanding -- may I have one more minute, please?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thirty seconds, sir.
MR. THURSTON: He was demanding to know why I was
there at the hospital. Was he asking what my illness was, or
was he asking why such a lowly person as myself was in the
hospital?
The way things looked, I thought he was going to
physically attack me in my poor condition with all these tubes
October 10, 2023
Page 20
sticking out of me. He kept looking nervously toward the door.
After about five minutes of this, he left. I was scheduled for
lifesaving surgery that day but was so upset by having people
interfering in my medical care that I left the hospital in that bad
condition in a fog.
I ended up getting a PICC line in my arm through
outpatient procedures for the next six weeks.
I reported what happened to NCH president at the time,
Allen Weiss, and Naples Police Department Officer Tyrone
Washington in 2011.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, please, sum up. Thank
you.
MR. THURSTON: Okay. That's it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, you can make some
closing -- I wasn't trying to cut you off but, I mean, just -- if you
could give us your last couple of summary sentences.
MR. THURSTON: Thirty seconds. That's all I ask to
wrap it up.
So, last, I want to give again the link that tells the story of
the people involved here locally in my illegal targeting at
targetedindividual4.wordpress.com.
Also, this past week I started to reach out to Florida
senators, Danny Burgess, Colleen Burton, and Broxson to ask
for their assistance in sponsoring Collier's law which would
criminalize participation in the Targeted Individual Program.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Doug Fee. He'll be
followed by Dan Cook.
MR. FEE: Good morning. For the record, my name is
October 10, 2023
Page 21
Doug Fee. I put on the visualizer an aerial map of Wiggins
Pass and 41. There is 13.5 acres -- 13.56 acres that I've circled
and yellow highlighted. This is owned by Collier County. I
believe it's titled to the transportation right-of-way section.
In 2002, this 13 acres was bought from the Diocese of
Venice for 650,000. What I'd like to point out here is that there
is a Wiggins Pass flowway, and the waters come down old 41,
and that -- that's Bonita. And it goes under 41 and goes through
the community called Tarpon Cove in a weir at the corner of
Wiggins Pass and Gulf Harbor, and eventually it percolates
through this 13.56 acres.
I do not know whether the county has a restriction on
these -- this acreage, whether it is just to be used for water
management or pollution control, but I did want to point out that
the county itself is an owner of property on this road. It's an
important property because there are many, many developments
to the north where the water flows down and eventually could
go through this before it reaches the Cocohatchee River, okay.
And I'm pointing this out because, when it comes to water
management, you have lots of either lakes that have been there
or manmade lakes that control water on development. It's an
important part of development.
And so you have communities that have their water
management systems and the pollutants, whether it be from
homes, businesses, go into the lakes and filtrate before making it
down to the Cocohatchee River. It's a point that we in our
neighborhood, we know of this acreage. We know of the weirs.
We know of the pollution control that's in our neighborhood, but
I did want to put that on the record and this is your acreage.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
October 10, 2023
Page 22
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dan Cook. He'll be
followed by Tyler Wood.
MR. COOK: Good morning, Commissioners.
MR. MILLER: Hold on. Wait a second. Let me bring
that mic level up. Go ahead, Dan.
MR. COOK: All right. Good morning, Commissioners.
Good morning, community. When I moved here to Naples in
2007, sometimes I would be really afraid of coming up here and
speaking. I'd be -- I'd have -- I'd have fear of, you know, not
saying the right things. Maybe I'd have fear of being judged by
the commissioners or members of the community, but this
morning when I woke up I had a different -- different state of
fear, I guess, in my mind, and that's probably because I've spend
too much time watching the news or scrolling on my phone.
We're all -- as Commissioner Kowal mentioned to start the
day, you know, we're all probably fearful and, obviously, irate
about what's going on in Israel right now. You know, I look at
what's going on at the border, and I have fear of, you know,
what's transpiring in Israel coming to the shores of America. I
hear Hillary Clinton talking about reprogramming MAGA
Trump supporters. That puts fear in me; makes me afraid to
come here and speak, maybe. What if -- what if something I
say here sounds the alarm of Hillary Clinton or somebody in the
deep state, as the previous speaker mentioned?
So I bring this up because the state of mind that fear brings,
I think, is when we're in a state of fear, we end up giving up our
rights more. That's the point I'm trying to get to. And so it's
difficult to push through this fear. It's difficult to make a stand
when you're afraid of what the repercussions might be.
But I'm here as the Vice Chair of the Republican Party and
as a member of the community to say that we as Americans need
October 10, 2023
Page 23
to push through the fear whether it's what we see on the news,
whether it's fear of judgment. Whatever the fear is, we've got to
push through that and have faith that everything's going to be all
right.
And I put my faith in our creator. I also put my faith in
our founding documents. The Constitution, the Florida
Constitution, all give me a lot of faith that it is going to be okay
if enough people will take action in defense of these documents.
The Constitution in Article I, Section 1, states that the
people grant power to the government. So remembering that
our rights come from our creator, not from government, gives
me a sense of faith. Article I of the Florida Constitution says
that all political power is inherent in the people, that the
annunciation herein of certain rights shall not be construed to
deny or impair others retained by the people. So these
documents are important, and they protect our rights, and they
protect our liberties. They give me faith to push through.
And, finally, if I could just take 20 more seconds,
October 10th is probably not a day that's going to go down in
history, but I believe it is a historic day because on October 10th
in 2009, a modern-day Continental Congress was held, and I'd
like to put it on the record that I was a part of that Continental
Congress, and what we did was we assembled, as is our right, to
peacefully petition the government, and we documented 15
violations of the Constitution in a document that I would say is
akin to John Adams' declaration of rights from the 1774
Continental Congress, and the modern-day Continental
Congress created the Articles of Freedom which documents
grievances and includes instructions to the government on how
to remedy those. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
October 10, 2023
Page 24
MR. MILLER: Your final speaker for Item 7 is Tyler
Wood.
MR. WOOD: Hey, everybody. Good to be here.
I've spoken before, and I just wanted to come and reiterate
because in October -- in August -- and this is also in light of
October being Manufacturing Month, because we're proposing a
$289 million investment into Collier County for manufacturing
of critical raw and advanced materials with zero waste and zero
emissions. Our feed stock just happens to be garbage.
And I know that sustainable and resilience is a big topic.
It gets everybody elected when they say these things, but I also
think that, you know, that we provide those things as a service,
and manufacturing is important.
So I'm just going to read off a little bit about what we are
doing so it's on the record. Carbotura, a company -- I'm Tyler
Wood. I've lived here for 20 years. I live in Botanical Place
near the Botanical Gardens. I have a beautiful son here. Love
it here.
We've got, you know, $10 billion of committed funding to
deploy. I encourage Collier County to qualify for as much of
that as possible, because what I'm doing right now is I'm finding
garbage all over the world, you know, for people to come to me
and -- you know, so I'm busier than I've ever been in my life.
So I'd like to say Carbotura, a company specializing in
solid waste elimination and conversion --
THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. Can you read that
slower.
MR. WOOD: Yeah, sure.
Carbotura, a company specializing in solid waste
elimination and conversion is considering investing and
establishing -- establishment of two regional service centers in
October 10, 2023
Page 25
Collier County. The service centers will have zero emissions,
zero waste, and 100 percent diversion capabilities. The
investment is estimated to be $289 million, and each service
center will have the capacity of 500 tons per day, making a total
of -- total capacity of a thousand tons per day. This implies
annual capacity of Carbotura of 365,000 tons per year.
Job creation, the establishment of the two service centers
will create -- will lead to the creation of 110 permanent jobs,
each with an average annual salary of $110,000, and an
additional 200 construction jobs.
The revenue -- projected annual revenue from the service
centers is $100,000 -- I mean, $100 million, sorry. Waste
management, the services will have the capacity to convert
100 percent of the municipal solid waste into reusable materials,
leading to zero waste and 100 percent diversion. This will
make Collier County the first zero-waste county and a graphite
leader in Florida.
We produce graphite from waste, not electricity, not fuel;
graphite. So you make $11 per ton of -- you know, of
electricity from a ton of garbage. You can make $80 per ton of
fuel from garbage. You can make over $1,000 in graphite. So,
I don't know, it's a pretty good business.
Impact numbers, annual revenue, 100 million. County
rebates, $13.6 million per year. Community development
funds, $8.6 million per year. Total annual impact of
$123 million per year for the first year, and this will go on for
another 30 years.
And then I could just yield my time. I'll come back in a
few weeks, and I'll continue the discussion. But thank you very
much for your time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
October 10, 2023
Page 26
MR. MILLER: That's all our speakers for Item 7, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we have about 23
minutes until we go to our time-certain at 10 a.m. I'd suggest
that we take a couple of the items on the County Manager's
report, Item 11, to fill that space, and then we'll go to the
time-certain at 10.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
Item #11A
RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE THE CONSERVATION
COLLIER 12TH CYCLE TARGET PROTECTION AREAS (TPA)
MAILING STRATEGY. (JAIME COOK, DEVELOPMENT
REVIEW DIVISION DIRECTOR) (ALL DISTRICTS)
RESOLUTION 2023-186: MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: That would bring us to Item 11A.
This is a recommendation to approve the Conservation Collier
12th cycle target protection area mailing strategy, and Ms. Jaime
Cook, Development Review division director, is here to present
or answer questions.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you.
MS. COOK: Good morning, Commissioners. Jaime
Cook, your director of Development Review at Growth
Management/Community Development.
Conservation Collier has begun Cycle 12 of its
acquisitions. This is the 12th cycle since the program's
inception in 2003.
October 10, 2023
Page 27
While the Conservation Collier ordinance does recognize
that broad target areas for protection are needed, the Board has
historically adopted a resolution identifying each of the Target
Protection Areas for each of the cycles, which is why you're
hearing this today.
Troy, I can't go forward.
MR. MILLER: Uh-oh.
MS. COOK: Currently, Conservation Collier has 22
preserves totaling over 4,700 acres. Within the urban area of
Collier County, where most of our population lives, there are
nine preserves totaling 618 acres. This map, the green dots
show the areas that have public access; whereas, the red are
more for resource protection and do not currently have public
access at all of these preserves yet.
So the current acquisition cycle process starts with
applications. Applications are received in one of three ways.
The first being the program mailing to Target Protection Areas,
the nomination by citizens of parcels for consideration, and an
owner application which can occur anywhere in the county.
Once we have received the applications, the properties are
reviewed by the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition
Advisory Committee, and the properties are ranked to create a
list for your review.
We bring that list to the Board. Those consist of A, B, and
C category properties that we work with you to determine which
properties we're going to pursue for acquisition. Once you have
approved the properties for acquisition, Conservation Collier
staff works with real property management and our facilities
team to start acquiring the process -- to start acquiring the
properties, including the appraisal process.
So this item you're hearing today is to establish those target
October 10, 2023
Page 28
mailing areas for Cycle 12.
In April of 2022, the Board had requested that staff speed
up the acquisition process, so cycles were actually divided into
two per year. Cycle 12A began in January of 2023 with the
application deadline of April 24th of 2023.
By the end of June, CCLAC had reviewed all of the
properties, and at the July CCLAC meeting, the properties were
ranked. Later on this agenda, we'll be bringing the Cycle 12A
properties to you for ranking for consideration.
But the target protection mailings will be part of Cycle
12B. Properties have already been submitted for application, so
staff has begun reviewing those with CCLAC. And then once
we review all of the properties as well as any applications that
we receive from the target mailing areas, the CCLAC will rank
all of those properties at their March meeting and we'll bring
them back to you for ranking at your April 23rd, 2024, meeting,
tentatively.
So there are 17 areas throughout Collier County that have
been recommended by the CCLAC to mail letters for protection
areas -- you can see these areas on your screen -- totaling 558
parcels and a little over 4,600 acres.
Spread throughout the county, you can see that these areas
typically are located near existing preserves, and you can also
see that we have preserves in each one of your commission
districts.
So our request to you today, our recommendation, is to
adopt the resolution approving the 12th cycle target protection
mailing areas that we can begin those mailings. With that, I'll
take any questions you may have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, just one quick
October 10, 2023
Page 29
question. I was looking -- it's TPMA 10. That's the
Everglades and I-75 -- Everglades Boulevard and I-75, and there
seemed to be an enormous amount of properties in that area.
MS. COOK: There are.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Rationale?
MS. COOK: The number of parcels in the area. If there
is, you know -- if you would like us to consolidate that area to a
more, you know, central focused area, we can do that, but it's
just the general area.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Well, you know
what I'd like, maybe -- and I don't want to stop anything that
we're doing, but maybe we can have a discussion off-line and
condense that area.
The thought process is is acquisition by Conservation
Collier preserves and protects in perpetuity. And with the
advent of that potentially being a partial interchange, that will
help with the commercial creep that has been a concern with
regard to development. When you have an interchange,
commercial development, in fact, transpires, and that's a
residential area. It's a much-needed component for our
transportation methodology.
So I'd like to have a look at that target protection area. It
wasn't envisioned in my mind to be as voluminous as that, and
when I saw that, I just wanted to ask that, so...
And then the second question would be, is the numbering
of the Target Protection Areas in any way a prioritization of
them, or is it just a number?
MS. COOK: It's just a number.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you. I'll move
for approval.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, I think -- do we
October 10, 2023
Page 30
have public comment?
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. I have two registered speakers.
Your speakers -- first speaker, Richard Blonna, and he'll be
followed by Brad Cornell.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I'll withdraw the
motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We'll get a motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Richard might have
some wisdom to share to make me change my motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: He always has wisdom.
MR. BLONNA: No, I wouldn't count on that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: He always has wisdom.
MR. BLONNA: Good morning, Commissioners. First of
all, I'd like to thank Commissioner Kowal for putting everything
this morning in a broader perspective. You know, our hearts go
out to the people of Israel and our fellow citizens from Collier
County who are trapped there, so thanks for doing that.
I'm here to speak in support of the County Manager's
recommendation to approve Items 11A and B related to the
Collier County Cycle 11 TPA properties and the A-List
properties that are associated with that.
As usual, the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition
Committee's recommendations offer a diverse group of
properties covering a wide swath of Collier County. All of the
properties on the A list associated with this are worthy of
acquisition.
You'll notice that there are no Marco Island properties on
the Cycle 12 list, and part of that is intentional on my part. I
told my constituents months ago that I would not be nominating
any Marco Island properties for acquisition for Cycle 12. You
still have four Cycle 11 properties coming before you from
October 10, 2023
Page 31
Marco Island in two weeks for your final consideration, and I'm
thankful for the folks at Conservation Collier, the county staff,
and to all of you for putting those on the A list for Cycle 11 and
sticking with them for the past two years.
I want to give these properties and their willing sellers my
full support. Should you agree to acquire these properties, it
will be an historic achievement in conservation from Marco
Island, and it will come at a high price, and for that reason, I
don't think it would be appropriate for me or anyone to nominate
any additional Marco Island properties for Cycle 12.
Furthermore, should the existing Cycle 11 properties be
approved for acquisition by you, I will recommend to my fellow
councilors to not nominate any new Marco Island properties for
next year either, for Cycle 13.
Marco Island wants to be a good partner with Collier
County and Conservation Collier moving forward, and for that
reason I ask you to support the County Manager's
recommendations to approve Items 11A and B related to
Conservation Collier's Cycle 12 TPA and the A-List properties
within those areas. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, Councilman.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Brad Cornell.
MR. CORNELL: Good morning, Mr. Chair and
Commissioners. I'm Brad Cornell. I'm here on behalf of
Audubon Western Everglades and Audubon Florida. Thank
you for the chance to address you on this.
Audubon supports the pending motion from Commissioner
McDaniel to move this forward. And just -- I just want to
emphasize what staff had told you, which is that this is it how
you get applications. When we mail out solicitation letters to
areas that have been prioritized for acquisition, this is how
October 10, 2023
Page 32
we -- how people find out about it. Now, the fact that you've
got some Cycle 12 applications already is due to the good
reputation that the program has, but it's not because we sent out
any letters for Cycle 12. This has been ready to be sent since
February.
And so it's going to generate more interest, I believe, and
this is -- this is how it works. And it's -- it’s based on good
principles that are good data about habitat so the -- it's called
CLIP data, or the Florida natural area's inventory that the state
collects about -- that's how they prioritize Florida Forever
acquisitions, and Florida Forever is the state's corollary to
Conservation Collier. It also looks at adjacency or parcels that
are adjoining existing preserves. We want to maximum the
bang for our buck so that we're adding to preserves we already
have.
And we want to buy properties that people can access and
enjoy and are near where they live. That's kind of the unique
role that this program plays.
So Audubon Western Everglades and Audubon Florida
support the meticulous data-driven process of prioritizing these
properties and urge your approval and direction to promptly
send out these letters. So thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: That was our final registered speaker, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I make the motion
again.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've got a motion from
Commissioner McDaniel. I'll second it.
I was just going to add, I like that we have the -- or I'll
reiterate that I think we all feel that we want to continue to see a
sense of urgency with that program. Not artificial acceleration,
October 10, 2023
Page 33
but a sense of urgency. I don't think any of us ever want to read
something's hung up with the County Commissioners when it
comes to Conservation Collier. We're here alive and well,
always available. And I like the more detail we're maybe
getting and how Growth Management and the team you're
representing are really pushing forward aggressively.
So having said that, I've got a motion by Commissioner
McDaniel. I'll second it. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And so are we passing A and
B unanimously, or we're just going -- we're going one at a time?
MS. PATTERSON: Just one at a time, 11A.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So that was 11A. It
passes unanimously.
Item #11B
RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE THE CYCLE 12A
CONSERVATION COLLIER ACTIVE ACQUISITION LIST
(AAL) AND DIRECT STAFF TO PURSUE PROJECTS
RECOMMENDED WITHIN THE A-CATEGORY IN
SEQUENTIAL ORDER FUNDED BY CONSERVATION
COLLIER LAND ACQUISITION FUND (1061) (JAIME COOK,
DEVELOPMENT REVIEW DIVISION DIRECTOR). (ALL
DISTRICTS) – MOTION TO MOVE MCLLVANE MARSH
October 10, 2023
Page 34
PROPERTY TO THE A LIST AND APPROVE AS PRESENTED
BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 11B is a recommendation to
approve the Cycle 12A Conservation Collier Active Acquisition
List and direct staff to pursue projects recommended within the
A category in sequential order funded by Conservation Collier
Land Acquisition Fund. Again, Ms. Jaime Cook, your
Development Review division director, is here to present or
answer questions.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Is there another slide besides
this one?
MS. COOK: There's a lot more.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. No, I've seen them.
Do you need to see the other -- do you want to see the slides?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
Go ahead, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
MS. COOK: Thank you. Again, Jaime Cook, your
director of Development Review.
This cycle, as I mentioned previously, was opened
January 4th, 2023, for applications. During the review,
staff -- staff develops an initial screening criteria report to assist
the CCLAC and yourselves in reviewing each application and
evaluating the properties for acquisition.
The ICSRs review five initial criteria that are required by
the ordinance, including native habitat; human social values,
such as recreation and educational opportunities; water resource
values, biodiversity and listed species environment, and whether
October 10, 2023
Page 35
it's within another agency's acquisition interests.
Oh, sorry.
So the Cycle 12A does have fewer properties because, as
Brad Cornell mentioned, mailings did not go out in the winter.
The properties that we have received applications for are divided
into three categories. The A list are properties staff and the
CCLAC have recommended for purchase, the B list are
properties that we recommend that we re-rank during the next
cycle, and the C list properties are properties that the county
does not recommend acquiring at this time.
I can go through all three of the categories or whatever
your desire is.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Let's see the A list.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'd like to go ahead and
hear the presentation, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Go ahead.
MS. COOK: All of them?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sure.
MS. COOK: Okay. So these are the locations throughout
the county. And you can see, again, all of the -- they're spread
out through the county. So it's multiple commission districts.
The first property is in the North Belle Meade Preserve
area, the Murawski Trust. This is located just east of North
Belle Meade, and it's adjacent to the private conservation lands
of the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District. It's about -- it's a little
under five acres, and the estimated property value is a little over
$24,000.
If you review our market values, ours take into
consideration the zoning considerations such as overlays and
zoning restrictions as well as the environmental consideration,
such as mitigation for listed species and wetlands, something the
October 10, 2023
Page 36
property appraisers don't take into account when they estimate
value for a property.
The benefits to this property would -- it would expand the
North Belle Meade Preserve, and it also is utilized by listed
species, including the Red-cockaded woodpecker and the
Florida panther, and it provides connectivity through that
wildlife corridor in that southern portion of the Estates.
Potential pitfalls to this property are that Transportation
Management Services' Wilson Boulevard extension may impact
this property. So as Commissioner McDaniel was discussing
before, we do look at impacts to other divisions within the
county.
The second North Belle Meade property is the Volpe Trust.
It's eight and a half acres consisting of pine flatwoods and
cypress, and the estimated market value is about $50,000.
Again, this will expand the North Belle Meade Preserve. It
provides connectivity to other publicly and privately owned
conservation lands, and it provides wildlife corridor for Florida
panther and other listed species, including the wading birds and
the Red-cockaded woodpecker.
Again, this property may be within Transportation
Management Services' Wilson Boulevard extension area, so
staff would need to work with them during the acquisition.
Additionally on the A list, we have the Symphony
Properties parcel, which is located south of Frangipani near 20th
Street Southeast. This is 150 acres, and the estimated market
value is a little over -- is about 7.1 million. It consists of a
variety of different habitats, including pine flatwoods, pastures,
and palmetto. There are listed species that have been found on
site, including gopher tortoise and their burrows and it provides
habitat for sandhill crane, caracara, and the Florida panther.
October 10, 2023
Page 37
Some other considerations are there may be recreational
opportunities due to the existing conditions on the property, but
some considerations that would need to be taken into account is
there is no connection to any other Conservation Collier or
private preserves. A Phase 1 environmental assessment would
be recommended before acquisition, and there are some
structures on the property that would need to be removed,
including chickee huts and a dilapidated barn and some shelters
from shooting ranges.
It's important to note that the northern 40 acres of the
parcel, this area right here, is part of the Rural Fringe
Mixed-Use District Neutral Lands, whereas the rest is part of
Sending Lands.
The other A-List properties include the multi property,
including Red Maple Swamp, which is located north of Twin
Eagles off of 41st Avenue Northwest. This multi-parcel project
was approved in 2005 and, to date, Conservation Collier has
acquired 78 percent of the area.
Staff typically recommends for these multi-parcel projects
a number of parcels that may be acquired during each cycle.
For this cycle, it's estimated that four parcels or about 10 acres
would be inquired.
This is Red Maple Swamp and cypress habitat. It is
adjacent to CREW lands, so there are partnership opportunities
with the Water Management District, who manages the CREW
lands, for management of these -- of this area as well.
It's estimated this would cost about 1.1 million to acquire
all of the additional parcels, not just the four that we're looking
to obtain in the next -- this cycle.
The second multi-parcel project is Winchester Head.
We've discussed this one a number of times. It is east of
October 10, 2023
Page 38
Everglades Boulevard and accessible from 37th, 39th, and 41st
Avenues. To date Conservation Collier has acquired about
63 percent of the area, and there's about 52 acres remaining.
Again, staff would estimate that we may acquire about four
acres during this -- four parcels --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I was going to ask you, these
totals here that say estimated cost, is that an actual appraisal, or
that's just the estimation, and what we approve today, then we'll
move you forward to the appraisal process?
MS. COOK: So that would -- the 1.4 on this screen would
be to acquire everything remaining, and it's based on market
studies that have been done in these areas before.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So, no.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So, no, it's --
MS. COOK: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So after we vote on B, it's
giving you the permission that we like what we see to move
forward to appraisal. It's not -- it's not, as we all know,
approving the immediate purchase of these?
MS. COOK: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We're in the early
stages.
MS. COOK: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I just want to clarify
that.
MS. COOK: The Winchester Head area is vital for
stormwater management and flood control in the Golden Gate
Estates area, and there's partnership opportunities both with
stormwater management and Collier County as well as the South
Florida Water Management District and the Big Cypress Basin.
October 10, 2023
Page 39
The Panther Walk multi-parcel project is northern -- is
located in northern Golden Gate Estates. It is west of
Everglades Boulevard and spans from Immokalee Road south to
56th Avenue Northeast. To date, only about 9 percent of this
multi-parcel project has been acquired. It is estimated that staff
could obtain about 15 parcels during this cycle.
It is -- the entire project consists of a variety of habitats,
mostly wetlands cypress, wetland hardwoods, and freshwater
marshes, but there are some upland areas. This area would
protect the Horse Pen Strand, which is vital for floodwater
attenuation and aquifer recharge in this area. Additionally, this
does connect to both private -- to private conservation lands both
to the north as well as to the west, and the estimated cost, again,
for the entire project is about $11.6 million.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So the entire project is
everything in red --
MS. COOK: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- and green. The proposal
for the 15 parcels is everything in green, correct?
MS. COOK: The green is what we already own.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm sorry. So it would be the
yellow parcels. That makes up the 15, right?
MS. COOK: The yellow are actually in acquisition status
right now.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. What color are the
15?
MS. COOK: They would be 15 of the red ones.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. COOK: Again, we would have to wait for people to
actually apply.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
October 10, 2023
Page 40
MS. COOK: And then, finally, the fourth multi-parcel
project is the Gore Preserve, which we've also discussed before.
This is located east and west of DeSoto Boulevard just both
north of I-75. To date, staff has acquired about 29 percent of
this preserve area, and it is estimated that we may obtain about
10 parcels or 20 acres during this cycle. Again, this is mostly
wetland habitats, but this does provide connectivity to the RLSA
lands and the Florida panther refuge to the east as well as North
Belle Meade and the Rural Fringe Mixed-Use Sending Lands to
the west.
The potential partnership opportunities for this are -- the
Cypress Cove Landkeepers actually own the parcel kind of in
the central of all the green, and there is an educational center
there that they operate. Staff is working with them on
developing trails as well as environmental educational programs
for the Gore Preserve.
So for the B list, we had three parcels. The first is the
Dombrowiski parcel. This is 1.14 acres in the northern Golden
Gate Estates consisting of freshwater marsh and cypress with an
estimated market value of about $38,000.
Pros to this property are that there are listed species found
on site, but there are no connections to other preserves, which is
why staff recommended it for the B list.
The Hoffman parcel is located east of Keane Avenue and
north of the North Belle Meade Preserve. It is 15 acres of
cabbage palm and pasture habitat with an estimated market
value of $70,000. Again, there are listed species on site, and it's
within the 20-year Wellfield Protection Zone for Collier County.
But potential considerations are that there are no connections to
any other existing preserves, there is no public access to this
site, and, again, the Wilson Boulevard extension may cut
October 10, 2023
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through this area, so we would need to work with Transportation
before any acquisitions were to move forward.
And then the third parcel recommended for the B list is the
Connection Investors parcel, which is part of the McIlvaine
Marsh near Fiddler's Creek. This is five acres of mangrove
swamp with an estimated value of $26,500. This would expand
the existing McIlvaine Marsh preserve as well as provide
stormwater surge protection during hurricane events.
Again -- but, however, it is difficult to access, and there is no
public access.
And then we had three parcels that were recommended for
the C list which would be -- that staff is not interested in
acquiring at this time.
The Adams Trust parcel is north of the Immokalee Road
and Collier Boulevard intersection. It is 4.3 acres of Melaleuca
wetlands. While there are listed species on site and it does
connect to private conservation lands as well as CREW lands, it
is difficult to access, and there is significant exotic coverage.
It's also very unlikely to be developed based on the condition of
the wetlands on site.
I will probably butcher this name, but the Matlalatl parcel
on Key Marco is 2.83 acres. It consists of mangrove swamp.
Its estimated value is 3.4 million. And while it does provide
storm surge protection and listed species on site, it is within an
HOA. And the HOA documents state that these lots are for
residential use only, not recreational.
Additionally, the HOA and the CDD fees are about
$23,400 annually right now, and HOA fees only tend to increase
so that cost for the HOA fees alone sometimes is more than the
management on some of the other preserves that we have. So
that's part of the reason staff would not recommend acquiring
October 10, 2023
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this parcel.
And then, finally, the Sanitation/Bethune Road parcel is in
urban Immokalee. It's 387 acres, and there's seven -- at least
seven distinct habitats on site with an estimated value of
4.8 million. While there are listed species on site and it's
located within the Immokalee Slough, staff would highly
recommend that a Phase 2 assessment be done and any
mitigation, because this parcel outlined i red on your screen is an
old landfill. There are some concerns that were brought forth
by the Immokalee Water and Sewer District for access and
security concerns and, potentially, restoration would be needed
for these parcels.
The A-List properties with their total cost to Conservation
Collier, not including the multi-parcel project. So just for the
three on the A list, the Murawski, the Volpe Trust, and the
Symphony Properties, is about -- estimated to be about
$7.2 million.
Commissioner Kowal, at one of the last meetings you had
asked about the tax rolls. So in that third column, I was able to
find the taxable value for each property as well as what their
total property tax in 2022 was so that you could see what was
actually coming off the tax rolls. I believe that was one of your
concerns.
So if staff were to -- if the Board were to move forward
with the A-List properties tentatively, we have -- Conservation
Collier has about $26.8 million available for acquisitions this
year. With pending acquisitions from Cycles 10, 11A, 11B,
and potentially moving forward with these, that would leave a
remaining balance of just over $6.8 million for the rest of 2024's
budget.
So staff's recommendation is to approve the Cycle 12A
October 10, 2023
Page 43
Conservation Collier Active Acquisition List and direct staff to
pursue the projects recommended within the A list in the order
presented and bring the purchase agreements back to the Board
for review and approval.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a couple
commissioners lit up here.
Commissioner Hall, and then Commissioner McDaniel, and
then Saunders.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thanks, Jaime. A couple
questions. First one is, when we have property that could
interfere with future Wilson Boulevard expansion, what are our
options? I mean, are we stuck with that or --
MS. COOK: So, typically -- the Conservation Collier
ordinance has an exceptional benefits clause in it that if
Transportation needed to come in there, we could go through the
process and just -- and explain why they needed that area;
however, recently we have actually written that into the deed
that would allow Transportation to acquire the portion of the
parcel that they needed at the cost Conservation Collier paid for
it without having to go through that additional step.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second question is: Where
there's mangrove swamps, aren't mangroves already a no-no to
build in?
MS. COOK: You would have to get permission from the
state to do so. They are regulated by the state.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. Thanks.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. I'd like to make
some suggestions here. Collier County -- first of all, the C-list
properties, I'm done talking about them. I don't think we need
to have that conversation anymore.
October 10, 2023
Page 44
Number 2, Collier County Government at large is not
geared for buying environmentally sensitive properties. We're
just not geared for it. That's -- the Symphony property that's on
the A list, I would recommend it be moved away. Forty acres
of it is already zoned in the RFMUD as neutral. It's one unit
per five acres. The balance are sending, which those
development rights transfer and go somewhere else. So that's
7 million off the A list that, in my personal opinion, I think we
could -- we could give some objective thought processes to even
pursuing that piece of property.
The Sanitation/Bethune piece of property needs to go away.
That's -- maybe a portion of it, if we're successful in moving
forward on -- you know, we've all expressed an interest in the
Williams Ranch, and that property is part of that flowway that
comes from the Seminole Reservation underneath Immokalee
Road, First Street, up there and, ultimately, a flowway into Lake
Trafford. Maybe some of the northern portion of that piece of
property that's more inclined for that flowway management
might be something that we could pursue.
So my suggestion is pull Symphony off the A list. I'm not
interested in making that acquisition. It's an isolated piece of
property in the north end -- northeast end of the North Belle
Meade and already has, relatively speaking, sufficient
protection.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You had a slide that had all
the A-List properties. Can we pull that up so while we're
talking about it we can get a better visual.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then the other thing
that I want to bring up -- and this has to do with maybe later on
when we're making amendments to the Conservation Collier
ordinance -- I don't want our taxpayers to have to pay twice. If
October 10, 2023
Page 45
we buy a piece of property that's in the way of a road and there's
a significant public benefit involved in that acquisition, I don't
want to have to transfer out Road and Bridges over into
Conservation Collier. That's double paying, and I don't think
we need to do that. So I would like that amendment to be
considered in the future as we're going.
The other thing I would like to do, Commissioner
Saunders, I don't know, a month or so ago brought up a very
interesting point, and that is with the fee simple acquisition
methodology that we're currently using, I'd like to expand our
opportunities for buying easements and allowing the property to
remain in someone else's ownership, but also getting the
protection that's there, and that was a very valid point. The
state does that on a regular basis.
And the third is when we do buy a piece of property in fee
simple, I don't want the development rights extinguished. I
want the development rights and property rights that are -- that
are coming with that acquisition to inure to the benefit of Collier
County so that they can then be redistributed at another time for
the value and for the benefit of the residents of Collier County.
So, again, I'm in the process of developing a transferable
development rights program for Golden Gate Estates at large.
I'm going to bring that forward early next year. If Mr. Bosi's
listening.
MS. COOK: He's in the hall.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He is; I know he is.
And, there again, environmentally sensitive properties,
there are panther habitat units, there are gopher tortoise
mitigation rights. There's mangrove mitigation rights. I want
those property rights that already exist when we acquire a piece
of property to inure to the county and then be utilized for the
October 10, 2023
Page 46
benefit of the taxpayers that are supporting the Conservation
Collier Program and these acquisitions.
The way the current ordinance reads, those are
extinguished, and then they go away, whether they be
development rights, TDRs, transferable development rights,
and/or credits in the RLSA.
So those are some of my suggestions with regard to the
upcoming ordinance as well as today's A list.
MS. COOK: And, Commissioner, I will point out I think
one of the benefits to Conservation Collier coming to Growth
Management is that we do work with Trinity quite frequently on
her long-range plan and the AUIR. So there is a lot of
coordination going on between our staff and her staff already for
these properties that may have impacts to transportation
projects.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, ma'am. I saw that.
But when I was reading the language, I also saw that -- and we
have made that adjustment for the right for acquisition. But,
again, in my brain, it's a double pay for a piece of property that
the county's already buying.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I have a question for you,
Commissioner McDaniel, on your comment about pulling some
of the properties off of --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Only one.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Only one.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Symphony?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, and that reasoning.
And this is more of just a hypothetical. Is there any -- do we
lose anything to let it go forward so that we see what details, you
October 10, 2023
Page 47
know, come back with all these properties to include that, or is
your proposal that, why waste the time, right? I mean, staff's
busy, right? I mean, that's why you're proposing it, right?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's certainly not a waste
of time. It's just a piece of property that's been availed to us
that's -- and you saw the map when it was located up there. It's
up -- it's up in the northeast end of the North Belle Meade.
Forty acres was designated as neutral, which is one per five.
That can be developed at a total of -- do the math -- eight units
can be put on that 40 acres in total, and the balance is already
designated as sending --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- which prohibits any
kind of the -- we can generate TDRs, transferable development
rights, but no other -- no other development can transpire.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Part of our job is to look at
these priority lists and make these exact comments. Like you
say, are we happy with A, B, C?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you have a thought?
MS. COOK: I was going to say, the agent for this
property did reach out and said that if you didn't want to move
forward with the Neutral Lands and only move forward with the
portion that is Sending Lands, they were amenable to that. So
they're -- I would believe that there's probably options if you
wanted us to move forward with getting appraisals and
reviewing it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You know -- and, again,
to take what you said, Commissioner LoCastro, it's not a waste
of time. Maybe -- maybe we make an adjustment and look
solely at that 40 acres that's -- that lies within the neutral area.
One of my -- and, again, I'd just as soon take the whole thing
October 10, 2023
Page 48
out. I have reservations with the entire Rural Fringe Mixed-Use
District and the Sending and Receiving designations and
proximity. And there was not -- when that original program
was established, there wasn't an enormous amount of science
that went behind the designation of these properties.
So I'm -- again, I'm not saying -- I'm not saying absolute
no, but if we do anything, squirrel it back to just that 40 acres as
it sits right now.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And before I go to
Commissioner Saunders, just to complete that thought -- and this
is just, you know, us thinking out loud and having good healthy
conversation.
I don't love the idea -- I love the idea of the conversation of
saying, you know what, that one's kind of a weak A list and
maybe a no A list for lots of reasons that all have merit, but I
also think that it's -- I don't like the idea of prematurely sort of
doing a line-item veto without sort of getting back, you know,
the appraisal or, like you said, let's say we left this in. Then all
of a sudden you come back and say, wow, we had a
conversation with the owner, and they came up with four
different options of how this property could be broken up, or
they took much less than the appraised value for whatever
reason.
So it's almost like if we say a definite hard stop no here,
take it off, we lose the advantage of maybe finding out a little bit
more about this property or other unique ways that it could be
packaged. And then if, in the end, it still doesn't make sense,
it's "no harm, no foul." I mean, I don't think it's an
overabundance of time to put it on here. But, also, too, I agree
with Commissioner McDaniel in the sense that sometimes we do
see properties on here that really are a hard no, you know, when
October 10, 2023
Page 49
it comes to, you know, being A list priority.
Let me go to Commissioner Saunders -- he's lit up -- and
then I'll go back to Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. Just a couple
questions. Could you go back to that -- it may have been the
last -- one of the last slides that had the funding available with
these properties' costs and how much is available and how much
would be available if we purchased these.
MS. COOK: Sorry. I'm trying to get there. This one
or --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Keep going. That one.
All right. So we have 26.8 million in the fund now. That
doesn't count the 10-plus million for maintenance.
MS. COOK: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And then if we acquire
all the properties on the A list that you've gone through, that will
leave a balance of just under $7 million.
MS. COOK: (Nods head.)
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And that's how much
money Conservation Collier would have for the balance of this
year and until October 1 of 2024?
MS. COOK: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: What would be the
activities that would take place during the year? Would you be
still looking at other properties or what would -- what would you
have the city -- the citizen committee do, and what would be
your -- I'm just kind of curious as to what you would do for the
next 12 months.
MS. COOK: So the Cycle 12 mailings you just approved,
so we would still go through the process, but we would have to
rank the properties based on funding available, and then there's
October 10, 2023
Page 50
other properties that have reached out, such as the William's
Reserves property out in Immokalee that would be -- need to be
taken into consideration if we were going to move forward with
acquisition.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The Williams property
in Immokalee, there are several funding sources to acquire that
property.
MS. COOK: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And I think the
environmental portion of it would probably be a small portion of
the total price. That would be somewhere around 7 or
8 million. So we could at least move forward with at least one
property, potentially.
MS. COOK: (Nods head.)
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. And I have
no issues with moving forward with the list, getting the
information, but if we do acquire all those properties, then we're
sort of out of business here until 2024 -- 2025.
MS. COOK: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, and
then Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just as a point of
clarification, did I read in the backup data that there are
environmental concerns; you're recommending a Phase 2 now
before we move forward? Are there environmental concerns on
that Symphony piece?
MS. COOK: It was used for ag. There's some ponds on
the site that we're not entirely sure if they were used for cattle
dipping. So staff would recommend doing the Phase 2
assessment.
October 10, 2023
Page 51
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: All right. And there
again, that goes back to my original premise of us just shying
away from manmade environmental sensitivity. We're just not
geared for that. I have, in the private sector, environmentally
distressed properties, old gas stations and that sort of thing, for
development purposes, but we're just -- the government, we're
just not geared for those kind of acquisitions. So it's similarly
on that point that I don't think we need to really pursue that
Symphony piece of property or at least -- I mean, I'm okay with
carrying it on and bringing it forward and doing the final
exploration, as you had suggested, Commissioner LoCastro, but
I -- my two cents on it is if we did anything, I'd only be -- I'd
only be looking at the 40 acres that's in the neutral zone.
The other thing I wanted to point out -- and this is an
important thing for you folks to hear -- funding is not a requisite
for the viability of an acquisition, not for you. There is funding
limitations. We all know that; Commissioner Saunders brought
that up. There are funding limitations, but I don't want that to
be a requisite for you as we're moving forward on the viability
of an acquisition.
Now, we haven't amended the Conservation Collier
ordinance yet and the program as of yet. I don't want us to
get -- I don't want staff to get into a position of making a viable
acquisition or determination on a viable acquisition based upon
the theory of funding availability. It's imperative that we don't
do that. It's up to this board to make those decisions, solely this
board.
MS. COOK: Correct. And no matter what properties
were to come in the door, we would have to come to you and
have you rank them.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good. Well -- and
October 10, 2023
Page 52
forgive me for interrupting you. Terri hates it when I talk over
people.
But you brought it up based upon -- you made a statement
based upon funding availability. And then what happens, when
there's perceptions of funding availability, then appraisals are
manipulated, circumstances are twisted around to meet the
theoretical need as to that funding availability as opposed to the
viability of the acquisition, and that's what's paramount for our
staff while we're moving through this, in my opinion.
MS. COOK: Yes, understood.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I just want to maybe get some clarity on what we're looking
at right here and has already been stated. I just want to make
sure I'm right. This number you're showing, this is a number if
we had the opportunity to acquire all these properties in these
particular projects. This is not what -- probably, realistically,
what we would be able to purchase over the next fiscal year,
because we only can purchase what's available and what's
actually offered to us and what we actually assess and go
through the process and negotiate.
So I don't want -- what I'm trying to think is this -- you
know, it's 19 million or whatever you're putting up there, that's a
wish list if we could obtain all these properties within these
groups of properties that you showed us today; is that correct?
MS. COOK: Correct. For --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So, realistically,
we're only looking at approving $369,000 today even if we
move on to the actual list?
MS. COOK: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. So we're not -- I
October 10, 2023
Page 53
don't want people to get the impression that this is the number
we're going to pay if we acquire these properties this year.
MS. COOK: Correct. Some of these -- Commissioners,
some of these do take a year or two to actually get through the
whole cycle. So if it were expedited and everything were
reviewed by the end of next September, this would be -- this
would be the numbers that we were looking at. But if they
were to take longer, the processes were to take longer, then the
numbers would be different, you're correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And out of that, too, we're
hopeful that people will, as we saw at our previous meetings,
accept lower than an appraisal value. And I understand exactly
what Commissioner Saunders -- the point he was trying to make
on this slide. But I'll just maybe take exception a little bit,
because I agree with Commissioner Kowal, if we bought every
single thing, we would have a little less than 7 million left. I
think buying every single thing is probably not probable. Like
you said, people come back, they're not interested in selling.
They want the full appraisal value. We don't think it's worth it.
Symphony property drops out. Numbers start changing.
And so I would make the comment that if they have
7 million left, we'd be "quote" out of business. And I know
that, you know, Commissioner -- words matter, but -- I know.
But I know what he was referring to trying to show, you know,
how the dollars change.
But the reality is, there's properties you bring to us that are
$24,000, and we buy them. So 7 million would buy a lot, and I
think that number is going to be way higher once you come back
with appraisals and some properties that aren't for sale and
whatnot. So this is a good, you know, one-page snapshot.
October 10, 2023
Page 54
And, lastly, while he's still in the room, I want to just give
Marco Island City Councilman Rich Blonna, really, our -- my
thanks and credit for really showing leadership up here at the
podium. That's the kind of leadership we need from the
community and from other elected officials who we work with
saying, you know, we want to be a partner. We're not running
in here banging on podiums saying we want to buy every single
property on Marco Island because it's the most important thing,
and if you don't do it then you're all horrible and hate the
environment.
So, sir, you know, I really commend you. We've been
working closely on things, but you've really been leading from
the front. And how refreshing it is to be able to say, you know,
we're going to do a good job rank ordering the properties, and if
we're fortunate enough to get the top two purchased, you know,
maybe -- I'm summarizing your words, it would be maybe a
little bit irresponsible of Marco to keep banging on tables saying
"buy, buy, buy." It doesn't mean we don't put a spotlight on
them.
Yeah, thank you for that. It doesn't mean we don't
continue to put a spotlight on it, and it doesn't mean we forget it.
But I like how -- and I really appreciate you leading from -- you
know, this is in my district, so we work closely together. But
we don't hear that from enough people saying, you know -- hey,
this is an important property, but it's not the number one. You
know, let's try to spread the wealth, you know, a bit. So, you
know, thank you, sir, for that.
I've still got some commissioners lit up. Commissioner
McDaniel, sir, and then Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sorry about that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: When I said "bang on tables,"
October 10, 2023
Page 55
did you do that on purpose?
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, no, no. It was to
try to get you to quit. But my -- the thing on my pen was loose,
and I had to tap it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner
McDaniel is done talking. Commissioner Hall.
Commissioner McDaniel, go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So the question of the
day is, how much are we approving for you to purchase today,
dollar-wise?
MS. COOK: From this list you're not --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Nothing, nothing, nothing.
MS. COOK: -- approving me to purchase anything.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We're just
moving -- we're just making a motion to move this forward to do
further exploration, and then you'll come back to us with actual
agreements?
MS. COOK: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And, actually, if we
wanted -- if anybody up here wanted to move something from A
to B or drop something off, like Commissioner McDaniel has
sort of brainstormed here, we had that option -- we have that
option right now to do so, correct?
MS. COOK: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall,
sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So, Jaime, can you go back to
the multi-parcel list, the one that showed all the red and the
green and the little yellows popped in there.
October 10, 2023
Page 56
MS. COOK: Any particular one?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Go to the big one, the next
one. Right there. Yeah, right there.
So we have the ones in green, and the ones in yellow are in
progress, and all of the red is still available?
MS. COOK: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HALL: And how long is this program
for?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Ever.
MS. COOK: So the Panther Walk Preserve, four acres of
it were originally acquired in 2007/2008 era, and then nothing
was acquired until 2018 when it -- when 40 acres was acquired.
So this one's kind of the newer -- newest one in a sense, even
though it's been around for a while in terms of acquisitions.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I guess my question is, how
long in the future would we have to purchase all of that?
What's the possibility?
MS. COOK: It depends on the owners and the
Conservation Collier Program.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So this program's been going
for 15 years, and these people aren't jumping on the bandwagon
to sell their properties to Conservation Collier?
MS. COOK: No.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I guess my frustration is, we
have a little yellow dot there and a little yellow dot there, and we
all feel warm and fuzzy like, yeah, we're really doing great when
we're really not. I mean, at the end of the game, if everything
goes away, and we've purchased these little yellow dots and
these little green dots, we have absolutely nothing worthwhile.
So I guess, in my mind I'm thinking, instead of purchasing
property -- like Commissioner Saunders said, can we do
October 10, 2023
Page 57
something else with -- with options, you know, pay them a little
nugget for an option for the next 10 years to purchase at a price,
or can we do an easement to where we can protect the property?
Because I don't like that. I don't like it at all. I think it's a
waste of time, a waste of money, and it's a waste of effort, and
it's not -- it's not really getting done what we really want to
accomplish in protecting Collier County's environment sensitive.
These properties haven't been built on in a million years,
and they're likely not going to be built on, you know, at all
anyway. They're wetlands. So I'm -- I just -- I'm throwing a
wrench in the deal just to make sure that we're doing really what
we want to do.
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Commissioners.
For the record, Jamie French, your department head for
Growth Management.
Commissioners, if I could simply point out, this is -- this is
more so of that horizon. These are targeted areas that we are
currently engaged with property owners to let them know of a
letter of -- our intent of interest; however, we would even go
back to the Williams property. We think that is pristine lands,
and we absolutely do believe that these larger swaths of land
encompass what the -- what the crafters -- and I've gone back to
even the original administrator, Joe Schmitt, who sat
around -- who serves on your Planning Commission on the -- for
environmental, that we talked about the -- what jettisoned the
idea of Conservation Collier.
So, absolutely, we are looking at both those larger lands as
well as these targeted environmentally sensitive areas, and we
are engaging with the property owners. But, Commissioner, I
can tell you, is that all of this land is able to be developed. As
Commissioner McDaniel has pointed out, you can pay
October 10, 2023
Page 58
mitigation to develop your -- an acre of -- an acre and a quarter.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I agree, but there's a
likelihood of it. And so what I'm saying is the risk of it being
developed is less than the risk of buying little pieces of it and
hoping that we're doing all the good for the county. The
Williams property is a classic example of what I think this
program's all about.
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And so we are
balancing what has been those targeted areas to engage those
letters of interest.
And what Ms. Cook has showed you today is exactly -- we
are currently in negotiation with all of those properties. And
Commissioner Kowal is absolutely correct, they could drop out.
They could raise the price. They could say, you know what,
I'm going to hold this because I think it's got value for whether
it's transfer of development right credits or maybe I'll engage,
and what you heard today on summary, where you're going to
have lots of expensive -- or a small amount of expensive homes
on a very large swath of land.
So we are fully aware, and we're exploring new ideas with
the CCLAC as well as with you as commissioners in the
community to best use those dollars to embrace this program.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I guess -- thank you, Jamie. I
think -- I guess my main point is if we could buy everything in
red, I'd love that. I mean, that would be perfect. But to sit and
piecemeal it just boom, boom, boom, boom, it just frustrates me.
I'm done.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do I need to do that to
you, too?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, do we have public
comment?
October 10, 2023
Page 59
MR. MILLER: One.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'm going to go to
Commissioner McDaniel, and then we'll -- we have a public
comment. Sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And just
to -- Commissioner Hall, just to add to your frustration, you're
looking at a microcosm of what's going on in Eastern Collier
County. If you move north of Immokalee Road, you
move -- you move through an extremely environmentally
sensitive area all the way up into the Audubon's -- the bird
sanctuary, where I live. That pond that's there on the west side
of this map, that's my old Big Island mine. On the south end of
that is the 846 Land Trust, which is currently known as the
Immokalee Rural Villages.
Along the north end, on the south end of that pond and
along the north end of the 846 mine is a protected wildlife
corridor. The developer of the 846 Land Trust is contributing a
couple hundred feet of right-of-way along Immokalee Road for
wildlife corridors, water transfer, transference as well.
So this is a microcosm of an already designated flowway,
environmentally sensitive area, and corridor travel. And I
wasn't -- I wasn't saying that as -- you know, as a slant on what
you were saying. The frustration is shared. This target
protection area has been -- has been named, and it's based upon
the environmental sensitivity of the properties that are within
that area. But our moving -- our moving forward on these
acquisitions is critical.
I mean -- there again, one of the things that was originally
proposed by the developer on that -- on the northeast corner of
that 846 Land Trust was a wildlife crossing and a weir system to
be able to -- for us to have a pump system to be able to move
October 10, 2023
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forward out of -- that canal that runs down along there on the
east side of 846 is one of the main canals that comes all the
way -- ultimately, those waters flow into the Gordon River.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We have an enormous
amount of public benefit that can come by acquiring lands out in
this area.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I agree. But if you look at the
yellow that we're going to -- that we're looking at purchasing --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- where it ties in with the
green, it's just -- it's not very promising.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and it -- also,
that also ends up adding to our frustration because this is a
designated environmentally sensitive area, but we've got private
property rights that reign supreme; period, the end. If we have
a property owner that owns a piece of property in this designated
area that doesn't want to sell, these are going to remain red
forever.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I was just going to add, I
agree with the frustration piece but, also, on the Conservation
Collier side, they have some maps that we could pull up right
now that are big, giant green chunks that weren't one big piece
of property. It was all these little piecemealed things that
Conservation Collier tried to put together.
And I agree with you, the frustration of waiting over time
to get this little triangle and this little triangle and this little
triangle -- but there are some big success stories where
Conservation Collier did acquire a big chunk of land that's all
green that was, at one time, a bunch of tiny little rectangles.
And I think the hope is you sort of work your way through this.
October 10, 2023
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But as we said at our last meeting, we saw some maps that,
wow, you know, they looked very sporadic, very -- you know,
like somebody threw darts at a map. I mean, it would be nice if
we could pull them all together. In some cases, though, they
have, or it was a small, little green piece but it was connected to
a bigger piece that Collier County already owned. I think we
saw one of those maps there.
So I don't necessarily disagree, but I know that there -- the
mission is to try to connect all of these reds into, you know, one
solid green piece, and in some cases that has happened in some
really environmentally sensitive areas.
Mr. Miller, we have another public comment?
MR. MILLER: We have one public comment on this
item, Brad Cornell.
MR. CORNELL: Good morning, Mr. Chair and
Commissioners. Brad Cornell with Audubon Florida and
Audubon Western Everglades.
A couple things in this conversation about your
12A -- Cycle 12A Active Acquisition List for Conservation
Collier. This is a short list because the target mailing hasn't
gone out yet, but, you know, you've gotten some really excellent
applications. These are actual applications. These aren't
potential. These are people who've already applied, and they're
waiting to hear, you know. They've been ranked by your staff
and by your committee, by the CCLAC, as you see in the
presentation by staff.
I would recommend -- Audubon recommends that the
Connection Investors parcel that's immediately adjacent and
within the McIlvaine Marsh, that be added to the A list because
it's really part of that whole mangrove swamp area that's -- it
doesn't -- it's not separated. It's not an isolated parcel. So we
October 10, 2023
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would recommend that be an A rather than a B.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Can you pull up that list again
that shows A, B, C just so we can put a visual on it.
COMMISSIONER HALL: There it is.
MR. CORNELL: So the green is already acquired, and the
Connection Investors is immediately adjacent to that green.
In addition, the Symphony property is 150 acres. That's
big enough to stand on its own as its own preserve. So the fact
that it seems to be not adjacent to other preserves shouldn't
matter. It's a very valuable piece of habitat as 150 acres and
can be managed as such and would have great value.
I also want to point out that that area of North Belle Meade
next to Golden Gate Estates and Frangipani is very wildfire
prone, catastrophic wildfire prone, and it's had fires, big fires, in
this same area. So this is an opportunity for us to manage that
and make sure we don't have those kind of -- if we can get
thorough hydrologic restoration and do more prescribed burning
and manage it, that's the way to do that.
And I'll also point out that the private north -- the North
Belle Meade Rural Fringe Mixed-Use District TDR parcels that
have already been protected with easements, they're not being
managed, and we have a problem with that part of the Rural
Fringe Mixed-Use District. They're not being managed. So
we need to get -- buying this land is a much better way to
accomplish that.
And, finally, I'll just point out on multi-parcel projects,
Picayune Strand is a 55,000-acre CERT project. It was
17,000 acres of the South Golden Gate Estates that the state
reassembled. It is very possible to reassemble these, and
Panther Walk just started, just last year. In the very first year of
being a multi-parcel project, 20 people applied in one year.
October 10, 2023
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That says something. This project is doable, and we just need
to be patient.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I'm going to make
a motion for approval and I'm going to also, in the motion, make
a -- ask a question. Let me ask a question. On the McIlvaine
piece, how did it end up on the B list when it's right there in the
middle of -- or in between what we already own?
MS. COOK: The access concerns.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And that was solely the
access concerns?
MS. COOK: Even access for staff to manage the parcel --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MS. COOK: -- was a concern.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. We already own
the green.
MS. COOK: We own the dark green, yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How do we get to it?
MS. COOK: We need to coordinate with Rookery Bay
when we want to get in there currently.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MS. COOK: And it's been difficult for staff to be able to
get in there to manage that parcel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: When you come back,
though, we could always move things from A to B to B to A,
correct? I mean, this is the time to do it --
MS. COOK: This is the time --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- because it's your priority,
right?
October 10, 2023
Page 64
MS. COOK: -- that we want you to do it. If you would
want us to move forward, we would ask that you would move
anything off the B list over to A if you wanted.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I'll make a motion
to approve for the A list and then -- and move McIlvaine from
the B to the A.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll second that.
I'm sorry. Oh, Commissioner Saunders, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No. I was just going to
ask the -- Commissioner McDaniel to amend his motion to add
the McIlvaine Marsh to the A list for consideration to be brought
back, so that was --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It looks like we're doing that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You could have just said
"second."
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm sorry. I just jumped.
I'm trying to move things. I want to get to -- we've got a lot on
the agenda today.
Okay. So we have a motion from Commissioner
McDaniel, a second from Commissioner LoCastro. All in favor
to approve the list and to move this particular property to the
A list and have the staff move forward. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Thank you, Ms. Cook.
October 10, 2023
Page 65
Instead of taking a break, let's go to Quiet Florida, since
they were waiting. I think it won't take that long, and then we'll
take a break. Sorry, Terri, if I can do that.
Go ahead.
Item #10A
RECOMMENDATION TO HEAR A REPORT ON
QUIET FLORIDA EFFORTS AND DISCUSS THE REQUEST BY
QUIET FLORIDA TO REDUCE THE NOISE POLLUTION FROM
ILLEGAL VEHICLE MODIFICATIONS. (ALL DISTRICTS) -
MOTION TO HAVE STAFF AND THE SHERIFF’S OFFICE
DEVELOP AN EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM AND TASK FORCE
BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to our
10:00 time-certain. Item 10A is a recommendation to hear a
report on Quiet Florida efforts and discuss the request by Quiet
Florida to reduce the noise pollution from illegal vehicle
modifications. This item is brought to the agenda by
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And, Mr. Chairman, I
added this to the agenda. Ms. Tatigian wanted to bring the
Board up to date on some issues. I also asked if Sheriff
Rambosk could be here. I know he's very busy, but he's been
sitting here for an hour and a half waiting because -- waiting for
this item, because the Sheriff has been very aggressive in
enforcing the law as it relates to noise. And I've asked him
from time to time if we could get him additional personnel to
even improve that. As a matter of fact, I think it's fair to say the
October 10, 2023
Page 66
number of stops for noise and tickets for noise in Collier County
exceeds the number that they're issuing in Dade County, as an
example.
So the Sheriff is really working to improve the quality of
life in Collier County by eliminating this noise as part of his
efforts. And so that's why I asked him if he would be here to
talk a little bit about that.
But Ms. Tatigian has just an update, and then I have a
couple of comments at the end.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, ma'am.
MS. TATIGIAN: Good morning, Commissioners, and
thank you in advance for your time. I know you're very busy.
Again, my name is Mary Tatigian, registered nurse, a
resident of Naples for 40 years. I started -- we started Quiet
Florida about two years ago due to the excessive noise we were
experiencing from modified mufflers and aircraft.
Modified muffler, as it states, is an exhaust system that has
been altered from its original design to produce a louder sound.
What we're asking is for folks to drive responsibly. We
want everyone to have fun and to have their hobbies, but please
drive responsibly.
We are indebted to the Collier County Sheriff's Office.
They have been phenomenal. I've worked closely with
Lieutenant David Breuning, who's been a godsend.
We know what the problem is. It's the modified exhaust
on motorcycles and vehicles. Also Jake braking and
modifications to dump trucks cause a great deal of noise for the
residents in Collier County.
We've discussed in the past, and as a registered nurse for 30
years, it's been one of my focal points that noise pollution causes
negative health impacts, mental and physical, such as high blood
October 10, 2023
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pressure; heart disease; cardiovascular issues; sleep
disturbances, which is a huge issue; stress; depression; anxiety;
just quality of life is negatively impacted by chronic excessive
noise.
Florida -- Florida legal exhaust noise summary states that
it's against the law to modify your muffler. We have a statute,
316.293, that states that we cannot modify an exhaust. It is
against the law. That has been in place since 1979.
We came up with a multifaceted approach because it -- the
law enforcement needs assistance. It can't all be on law
enforcement's shoulders. So we came up with a list of ideas for
each department. Collier County Commissioners, we ask to
protect our quality of life, allocate funds to the Sheriff's Office,
and to start lobbying for a revision to the modified muffler
statute.
For noise cameras, stricter fines and the use of "plainly
audible" regarding modified mufflers.
We're asking Transportation Planning Department to use
signs; place signs in areas where maybe dump trucks are in
residential areas or established roundabouts; slower speed limits
in residential areas. Do something to help the quality of life of
residents.
Collier County law enforcement, we're asking to start a
specific task force to engage with the community, educate, visit
body shops, car dealers, establish referee stations, which I'll get
into a little bit later, and also Naples City Council, to work with
the BCC in their city limits.
"Plainly audible" ordinance is what we're using now for
music, loud music from vehicles. The ordinance defines
"plainly audible" as any sound produced that can be clearly
heard by a person using his or her normal hearing faculties with
October 10, 2023
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a distance of 50 feet or more, but I think that's been reduced to
25.
The -- what I was speaking of, the referee stations, in the
OPPAGA study that Senator Passidomo initiated, the 50-page
report, California's using referee stations, whereas somebody
might get a ticket, they'd have to phone the referee station, set
up a time where they go and have their muffler -- the decibel
sound tested.
We thought -- California's using community colleagues.
We thought James Lorenzo Walker would be an excellent place
to do that, as they have an automotive program already set up.
You could go there. You could educate the new mechanics
coming up, as well as have your muffler tested. You take that
compliance certificate, whether you fail or pass, and show that
to the judge whether your vehicle is in compliance.
Are Jake Brakes illegal? I get many, many, many, many
complaints from my members, over a thousand members I have
in my group from Jake Brakes. I don't think anybody's
monitoring dump trucks the way they drive up and down 951. I
drive about 50 miles an hour. They fly by me.
One person in my group stated, why in the world would a
trucker use Jake Brakes on level ground like Florida? They
were designed for mountainous regions, Pennsylvania, West
Virginia, or in the Northwest. The only reason to use a Jake
Brake in Florida is going over the speed limit. They're
speeding. They're driving really fast, and they come to a light,
and they want to stop. They don't want to use their brakes, so
they use the Jake Brakes, which is a compression system, which
gives off a huge noise. I live three-quarters of a mile from 951.
My windows vibrate some days -- not every day, but some
days -- with the dump trucks. It's just a horrendous noise.
October 10, 2023
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So why don't we put up signs, "Jake Brakes prohibited."
Try something. Visit the gravel pits. Do not use your Jake
Brakes. Are you modifying your mufflers? Can't somebody
find out about this to try to preserve our quality of life? We
would appreciate it.
Noise cameras, which we spoke of before, are being used in
New York, New Jersey, Tennessee, California, and Miami
Beach, and we feel that they would be an added bonus. Rueben
Peckham from England visited us, and we had a meeting with
Transportation Planning about the effectiveness and the usage of
these cameras, so we would really like you to consider that as
well. That way it gives the police -- we wouldn't have to use as
many police officers. If we had these cameras set up, it would
allow the law enforcement to do a lot of other jobs instead of
stopping modified mufflers.
I don't know if you're on social media or not. I am, with
my group. But I get a lot of feedback from the community
about -- and this is just -- I don't have to read all this to you, but
just comments from people that have lived here for long periods
of time. We're residents. We pay taxes. We vote. We work
hard. We give back to the community, yet we feel that our
consideration of our paradise -- my three acres of paradise now
is being subjected to chronic noise. So it takes away from our
quality of life, and all my thousand members, and probably more
people.
So we're asking you, please, to consider implementing
some of these ideas that we have to quiet the noise.
Like I said, oh, my God, when I moved here in 2015, it was
so quiet and serene at Forest Glen. I loved sitting outside.
Now it sounds like a racetrack. Something needs to be done.
This is an infringement on our rights. Why don't they just give
October 10, 2023
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them tickets or jail time? This is what I hear constantly from
my members.
And that is just a flyer that -- working with the Sheriff's
Department helped design that for us, Quiet Florida, just who we
are, a non-profit community organization working to preserve
peace and quiet in our neighborhoods, and we're asking you to
do all you can to help us. Appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thanks.
MS. TATIGIAN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Did you have anything
else?
MS. TATIGIAN: Yes, I do. There's two other speakers.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Public comment, Mr. Miller.
MR. MILLER: Yeah. I have three registered public
commenters.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Let's hear from them, if
don't mind, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
MR. MILLER: Your first speaker will be Joy White.
She'll be followed by Beth Petrunoff.
MS. WHITE: I'm sorry. I'm not on this one.
MR. MILLER: What am I doing?
Okay. Beth Petrunoff, followed by Mary Young.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mary Young here?
MS. YOUNG: Yes, right here.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. If would just queue at
the other podium so we can -- thank you.
MS. PETRUNOFF: Hello.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Hi.
MS. PETRUNOFF: I'm Beth Petrunoff, and I'm a city
October 10, 2023
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council member and resident of Naples.
Mary Tatigian asked me to come today in support of this
and to link with the BCC, and this is my reason for being here.
I wanted to say that we are a vibrant community who enjoy
Collier County's great outdoors. The outdoor activity has
increased in the last three years with, in our case, the
proliferation of outdoor dining. This concept ensures that our
businesses grow and thrive.
One impediment to growth is the irritating noise generated
from these modified mufflers, particularly on Fifth Avenue. It
is a loud, irritating guest at a -- that is uninvited at a party.
The good news is that we've made a -- we have a statute in
place, and it's been in place for 45 years. The bad news is we
do not really have the resourcing to enforce it. A rule without
enforcement are but words on a piece of paper.
I would like to see a task force to include the Sheriff's
Department to pilot an enforcement program using noise
monitors described by Ms. Tatigian. She's a private and caring
citizen who voluntarily has taken it upon herself to help our
community. It's a tribute to this board that citizenry can have a
voice like Mary's. This pilot would determine if we can finally
solve the noise issue through an efficient enforcement
technology.
Nietzsche wrote that our greatest experiences are our quiet
moments. I respectfully ask our commissioners to help provide
these great experiences to our residents we serve and the visitors
that make us thrive.
Thank you for your consideration.
MR. MILLER: Your final speaker is Mary Young.
MS. YOUNG: Good morning, Chair LoCastro and
County Commissioners. My name is Mary Young. I'm a
October 10, 2023
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resident of City of Naples, and I'm here today representing the
Olde Naples Association to talk to you about the growing
problem of noise disturbance in and around Olde Naples from
illegal modified muffler vehicles.
I know this is an issue you are well aware of, and I thank
you all for the work you are doing to investigate potential ways
to address this ongoing problem that has such a profound
negative impact on our residents.
Olde Naples is a vibrant portion of the county made up of a
variety of residential and commercial properties owned by locals
who are dedicated to keeping Naples a great place to live, work,
and visit. We all market ourselves as a little piece of paradise.
Our O&A board spends many hours developing, supporting, and
influencing city and county policies that support our mission to
preserve the charm and character of our neighborhoods.
Many of the noises we hear in the city can't be easily
avoided, as they are part of what makes a city tick: Traffic,
garbage trucks, construction noise. But occasionally we do
have the opportunity to address nuisance noise like the kind
created by modified muffler vehicles which parade through the
most densely populated and most visited commercial areas in
our city, namely Fifth Avenue South and Third Street South,
causing havoc among residents and visitors that come to
downtown Naples for a relaxing, peaceful, and enjoyable
experience of shopping and dining.
We also observe that many of these vehicles are regular
violators and it seems are just looking for attention. They do
not add to the enjoyment or economic value of the city in any
way. We are enthusiastic about the new noise camera
technology which may offer an improved enforcement solution
for our police personnel to address this problem in a more
October 10, 2023
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efficient and safe manner.
Eliminating much of the noise from the cars, trucks, and
motorcycles that use modified muffler systems has the potential
to make a significant positive impact on the quality of life of our
residents and our visitors.
We appreciate your efforts to budget for and support these
new enforcement efforts that are in line with already approved
laws and ordinance. We thank you for your work on this
serious problem and for all that you do in service to our
community.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: That was all your speakers on this item,
sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
I don't know if Sheriff Rambosk wants to make a couple
comments before I jump in here.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Good morning, Commission.
As you know, we have been working together with Quiet
Florida. In fact, prior to Quiet Florida being established, we
began working. I can tell you that in the last two years, the
enforcement awareness and information efforts of our
organization have really surpassed that of anybody in our region,
as the commissioner mentioned before.
So we've made a commitment. I will state for the record
that I would support developing a task force, work together with
the City of Naples Police Department, the Marco Island Police
Department, and the Florida Highway Patrol. We have good
working relationships with them.
I would ask that you let that group review what the
October 10, 2023
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recommendations are, some that have been made here today and
others that may be available to us, and allow them to work
together with Quiet Florida to develop recommendations for the
future for you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Sheriff.
Mr. Chairman and members, I already have authorization
from the Board to work with our legislative delegation to work
on some statutory changes to increase fines and to get the
Florida Legislature to approve the "plainly audible" rule, have
that applied to mufflers as it already applies to loud music from
vehicles, and so that's underway. I've met with Commissioner
Passidomo -- Commissioner -- President Passidomo's office, and
we're reaching out to other delegation members to proceed with
that.
But there are two things that I think I would like to add to
that list of things that we're working on currently. One is to try
to develop some kind of an educational program, as
Ms. Tatigian has pointed out, so that we can have all of our
shops that are working on vehicles at least know -- have them
educated on the fact that if they are modifying mufflers, that is
illegal and that hopefully that would prevent some of
them -- some of the shops from doing that kind of work. So I'd
like for our staff to work with Ms. Tatigian and the Sheriff's
Department to develop that type of thing and then have a
program to really disseminate that throughout the county to
make sure that all of these shops are aware of what the law is.
But more importantly, and I think most significantly, to tag
onto what Sheriff Rambosk has just said about a task force, I
would like the Commission to vote today to ask the Sheriff, with
Ms. Tatigian and other interested parties, to come back with us
with how this task force would be constructed, what it would
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need. I think Sheriff Rambosk would be sort of the lead of
helping us develop what this task force would look like, but I'd
like that direction from the Commission. And I'll just
simply -- I'll make that as a motion on all four of those items.
But one of the things we're all committed to is improving
the quality of life of our residents. That's one of the main
things of being on a commission. Code enforcement, law
enforcement, all of those things are efforts to improve the
quality of life of our community. This is just another one of
those.
And I've spoken to dozens and dozens of people over the
last several months concerning noise. I've sat in a restaurant
where, you know, you're having a nice dinner with your family
outdoors, and, you know, a vehicle comes by with a modified
muffler, and you have to sit there for five or 10 minutes just to
calm down, and it's just something that is illegal, and we should
take even greater efforts to make it as little of a problem as
possible.
So I would make the motion that we have our staff work
with the Sheriff's Department to, number one, develop this
educational program to make sure it's disseminated throughout
the county to individuals and shops that would be of interest and
that we work with Sheriff Rambosk to develop this task force
and have that recommendation come back to the Board as
quickly as possible so we can develop that, and I will continue
working with Senator Passidomo and our legislative delegation
on some of the statutory changes. So I'll make that as a motion,
Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Before we vote on the
motion, I have two commissioners lit. Commissioner
McDaniel, and then Commissioner Hall.
October 10, 2023
Page 76
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll second the motion.
I was going to do that anyway. But I do have a comment, and it
had to do with the -- and I appreciate you clarifying the motion,
Commissioner Saunders.
I'd like the Sheriff to work with our staff to establish the
task force, then bring in the public to engage with that task force
to better improve the efforts of the task force, so I appreciate
that clarification.
And as a point of discussion, after the second, it had to do
with the comment that Mary made with regard to the Jake
Brakes. I have no issue in installation of "no Jake Brake" signs.
Those are -- some of the things that Mary shared -- I'm quite
familiar with dump trucks and their operations. It's not
just -- Jake Brakes are not just a mechanism utilized in the
northern states. They are utilized in the northern states a lot,
but they have other benefits that come along with it.
The modification of the mufflers has as large of an impact
as the utilization of the Jake Brakes. And I have successfully
reduced the utilization of Jake Brakes with communication with
the industry, with the mining industry, with the trucking industry
and signage. So if we can go forward with that --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If you'll allow -- I'll
modify the motion if you'll let me do that, to add what you just
said --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- in terms of the Jake
Brakes and signage and have staff work with the Sheriff's
Department on that issue as well.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'd second that -- I'd
second that modification.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
October 10, 2023
Page 77
COMMISSIONER HALL: As another point of
discussion, when I look at the consequences section of this
brochure, the first offense is 315, the second one's 600 and
whatever. You know, you don't accidently have a modified
muffler. You do it on purpose, and I'd like to see those
consequences raised way up there, even with loss of driver's
license if it was to continue. A lot of people just pay those fines
and keep on going. But if the consequences are, you
know -- remember back to Baretta? If you can't do the time,
don't do the crime. That's what I'd like to see just as a point of
discussion. I'd like to see the consequence be a lot steeper.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, if I
might just quickly comment on that. That is part of the effort in
terms of increasing the fines. I sort of in jest at one point said
each time somebody gets a ticket, let's double the fine, and after
three or four, five, six tickets, they're going to no longer be able
to afford to drive. But we will work on increasing the fines.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So I have a motion
from Commissioner Saunders with some additional changes that
we've -- that Commissioner McDaniel has seconded and agreed
to. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. It passes
unanimously.
Because we went a little bit over, and I know Terri's -- she's
October 10, 2023
Page 78
giving me the evil eye, and we also have a lot of people here and
few bathrooms. I'd like us to come back at -- I know 11:20
seems like a lot, but we get a lot of complaints that people are
trying to get to the podium and can't get to the restroom and
whatnot. So let's come back here at 11:20 sharp and continue.
That gives Terri a little bit of an extra break as well.
(A brief recess was had from 11:04 a.m. to 11:20 a.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. If we can have
everybody take their seats so we can get started on time.
For the sake of the agenda, we will now move to 9A, which
has a companion item of 12A as well.
So, County Manager.
Item #9A
RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE AN ORDINANCE
AMENDING ORDINANCE NUMBER 2000-88, THE
COCOHATCHEE BAY RESIDENTIAL PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT, INCREASING THE DWELLING UNITS FROM
590 TO 600; CHANGING THE PERMITTED USES IN THE GOLF
COURSE (GC) DISTRICT; AND INCREASING THE ZONED
HEIGHT LIMITATION OF 17 STORIES AND 175 FEET FOR
BUILDING FIVE ON THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE
ADJACENT TO ARBOR TRACE TO MATCH THE MAXIMUM
ZONED HEIGHT OF THE OTHER FOUR BUILDINGS OF 200
FEET. THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON THE NORTHWEST
AND NORTHEAST CORNERS OF WIGGINS PASS ROAD AND
VANDERBILT DRIVE IN SECTIONS 8, 16, 17, AND 20,
TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 25 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA, CONSISTING OF 532.09+ ACRES. (PUDA-
October 10, 2023
Page 79
PL20220001142) (THIS ITEM IS A COMPANION TO ITEM #12A)
(DISTRICT 2) ORDINANCE 2023-46: - MOTION TO ADOPT
W/CHANGES BY COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, Item 9A does require
the commissioners to provide ex parte disclosure. This is a
recommendation to approve an ordinance amending Ordinance
No. 2008-88, the Cocohatchee Bay Residential Planned Unit
Development, increasing the dwelling units from 590 to 600,
changing the permitted uses in the golf course district, and
increasing the zoned height limitation of 17 stories and 175 feet
for Building 5 on the north property line adjacent to Arbor Trace
to match the maximum zoned height of the other four buildings
of 200 feet.
The property is located on the northwest and northeast
corners of Wiggins Pass Road and Vanderbilt Drive in Sections
8, 16, 17, and 20, Township 48 South, Range 25 East, Collier
County, Florida, consisting of 532.09-plus acres.
This is a companion to Item 12A, which I will also read
now. Item 12A is a recommendation that the Board of County
Commissioners consider the amendment to the settlement
agreement and release proposed by Lodge/Abbott Associates,
LLC, and Lodge/Abbott Investments Associates, LLC, owners
of the Cocohatchee Bay Planned Unit Development, to allow the
Cocohatchee Bay Planned Unit Development to be amended and
provide consent to the amendment of the Declaration of
Covenants for Area 1 on the golf course tract east of Vanderbilt
Drive.
For these items, we need the participants to stand to be
sworn in.
October 10, 2023
Page 80
MR. MILLER: If you've registered to speak, you need to
stand to be sworn in, please.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth?
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the
affirmative.)
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, ex parte.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner
Kowal, ex parte on 9A and 12A.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes, sir. I have, on 9A,
meetings and correspondence.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you. I have
meetings, correspondence -- let's see -- calls, emails, the whole
list.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay, sir.
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I've got it all; meetings,
correspondence, emails, and calls.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Meetings,
correspondence, and emails.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, and I had meetings,
correspondence, and emails on both. Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
Mr. Yovanovich.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Before we go to
Mr. Yovanovich, just, Mr. Miller, how many public speakers do
October 10, 2023
Page 81
we have?
MR. MILLER: It's a little fluid because people come and
drop off Zoom and get on Zoom, but right now it looks like 46.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And one of the things
that we did at the last meeting that I thought was successful is,
you know, we'll mix it up --
MR. MILLER: You want to go back and forth?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- a little bit, yeah. People,
you know, that are on Zoom --
MR. MILLER: I'll let my Zoom guys know. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Yovanovich, sir, the floor
is yours.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Thank you. Good morning. For
the record, Rich Yovanovich on behalf of the applicant.
With me today for the applicant is Dick Corace; Ellen
Summers is our professional planner; Karen Bishop is here to
answer questions regarding the project and, in particular,
drainage, if necessary; Norm Trebilcock is our transportation
consultant; and Tim Hall is our senior ecologist for the project.
The Cocohatchee Bay PUD has been around since
December of 2000 and has had a history that involved a couple
of amendments and, ultimately, the project was most recently
approved as both a PUD and as a settlement agreement as the
result of a Bert Harris action that was filed because the Board of
County Commissioners at the time denied our request for an
amendment to the PUD.
This is unique because you rarely see the requirement to
both amend the PUD and amend a settlement agreement, but the
PUD is actually referenced in the settlement agreement;
therefore, we have to amend both of those documents.
The settlement agreement itself took multiple years to
October 10, 2023
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negotiate. Initially, it was presented to the Board of County
Commissioners in 2006. You'll primarily hear some quotes
from that hearing in 2006, but that agreement ultimately was not
adopted in 2006, and there were several public hearings before
the Planning Commission and meetings with the neighbors as
part of the Planning Commission hearing and, ultimately, the
settlement agreement was adopted in 2008.
So the settlement agreement itself clearly says that it can be
amended, and that is what we're here to do today is request an
amendment to the settlement agreement, and that settlement
agreement, should the Board of County Commissioners want to
amend it or agree to amend it, specifically allows for that
process. It also specifically allows for the process of amending
the declaration, which requires a supermajority vote to go about
doing that.
I will take you through a little bit of details of both the
settlement agreement and the PUD, but just from a project
history standpoint, the project started basically construction in
2015 with the towers you see today. We have recreational
facilities. Three towers are complete, and one is under
construction with the last tower to be underway shortly, and
that's one of the primary amendments we're making to the PUD
to discuss today. And if you've driven by there, you will see
that the golf course is under construction.
The property is about 539, I think, or '32 acres. I get those
numbers backwards. It's outlined in blue, and the golf course
is -- let me see if I get this right. Here's where the golf course is
located, and in this vicinity right here, you will find the towers
as well as the recreational amenities associated with the
development. You will also notice that over 80 percent of the
project is in preserve.
October 10, 2023
Page 83
The request is to add 10 dwelling units to the existing 590
dwelling units to get to a total of 600 dwelling units within the
project.
This is less than one half of the density that is permitted
under the Growth Management Plan. The Growth Management
Plan would allow 3 dwelling units per acre, and we're asking for
1.3 dwelling units per acre.
We're asking to increase the height of Building 5 from its
17 stories to 20 stories. It was 175 feet zoned when it was
approved, and at that time the county didn't have an actual
height in its ordinances, so there is no cap on the actual height of
the proposed Building 5. We are modifying the PUD to include
both a zoned height and an actual height as part of this
amendment process. We're actually using an amended
definition of "building height" that the county asked us to revise.
We are adding an essential service or allowing essential
services to be constructed within the golf course tract.
Currently, we are not permitted to have any essential services
there, and that is basically for the provision of a fire station that
cannot be approved without amending the settlement agreement.
We're also adding a commitment to construct an emergency
access to provide emergency access to Tarpon Cove who, during
the neighborhood information meeting, was concerned about
they only had one way out, and that was on Wiggins Pass, and
through this amendment process, we will be providing them a
second way out of their community.
We're modifying -- or modernizing, if you will, the PUD to
include the typical trip cap as part of the project, and separate
from the PUD, we are amending the settlement agreement to not
only include the revisions to the PUD we're talking about today,
but to also provide a 1.61-acre parcel to the county out of a little
October 10, 2023
Page 84
over 3-acre parcel that is currently zoned C-3 on that piece of
property.
The exhibits we've shown throughout have evolved.
Initially we showed an exhibit with 100 standard parking spaces
on that C-3 parcel, and we showed an area that was
undeveloped. Our intention was to provide the site to the
property but retain an interest over that vacant area to do
commercial development.
So right now, should the agreement not be amended, the
parcel's designated C-3, and several commercial uses can occur
on that property without coming back to the Board of County
Commissioners. We would simply do a Site Development Plan
and a building permit, and we would move forward with the
existing permitted uses on that property.
I've had a conversation with one gentleman about what we
intended to put on that property as part of the co-development, if
you will, of the site. I had mentioned we would do something
similar to or consider something similar to Food and Thought,
which is a -- you know, could sit down and eat in Food and
Thought, you could buy food at Food and Thought. You can
get coffee at a Food and Thought. It's a -- it provided for, I
would say, neighborhood-level food and services. We're not
talking about anything major.
That gentleman asked me if we would agree to -- I
suggested that we -- you tell us what you don't want, and we
could see if we can agree to not put those on the property. We
got a list of some of the things they wanted and some restrictions
to hours of operation, which we couldn't agree to, but we did
commit that we would not put a gas station with pumps there,
and we would not put a convenience store 7-Eleven type use
there. We were okay with those commitments on the record
October 10, 2023
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today should this get approved and should we go forward with
the development.
The master plan currently has the following access points.
One of the amendments is to add this access point here to get to
a portion of the property and also to add the essential services
use right here, basically on the frontage of U.S. 41, and that is
we've been working with the fire district for that parcel of
property, and I'm sure that there's a representative here if you
have questions regarding the benefit of this fire station to the
overall community service, which I'm assuming would benefit
everybody who lives in that area with a reduction or at least
stabilizing some of their homeowners insurance rates because of
better fire service in the area.
As I previously mentioned, the project density is going to
be 600 units. The Growth Management Plan would allow three
units per acre, which is 1,215 units, and our 600 is less than half
of the potential units.
This exhibit shows a couple of things. It shows, first,
where the fire station would go, it shows where the fifth tower
is, and it also shows where the county's -- client's property is that
would be codeveloped right here on the corner of Wiggins Pass
and Vanderbilt Drive.
This is a -- sorry. I've been corrected. It's C-2, not C-3,
but the -- yeah, it's C-2. Thank you, Ellen.
This is a closer-up view of where Tower 5 is, Tower 500, in
relation to Arbor Trace, which is right here, and this is our
proposed Building No. 5 right here.
This shows you the orientation of Arbor Trace in relation to
Proposed Building No. 5 and the different view corridors if
you're looking out the windows on that particular building in
Arbor Trace.
October 10, 2023
Page 86
I said this at the Planning Commission; we believe where
we've located this, and based upon the exhibit I'm going to show
you in a second, there's no impact to the views that people
would see by going taller than what we're currently allowed to
do because right now what you can see is we could go to
175 feet right now, which is this line right here. This is Arbor
Trace over here. We're already taller than Arbor Trace from a
view perspective. So in our planner's professional opinion,
adding the three stories that we're requesting is not incompatible
with what already exists to our north in Arbor Trace.
This is a conceptual rendering of how the fire district parcel
can be developed. We obviously will be coordinating with the
fire department and coordinating access with Tarpon Cove to
allow for their access through the fire district parcel should, as
has happened in the past, their front entrance get blocked. They
will now have a second way out of their community.
I've already taken you through this part of this site to show
you where the fire station site would be and the interconnection
that would occur with our community -- with the community to
the south.
I mentioned that we're adding the trip cap to the PUD.
The 10 new units will add seven peak-hour trips to the overall
project, and that is incorporated into the trip cap of 236 two-way
peak-hour trips.
From a GMP consistency and compatibility standpoint, the
property is in the urban area. It's in the Urban Mixed-Use
District. And the site is within the Coastal High Hazard Area;
that's why we can't do the typical four units per acre. We have
to reduce it to three units per acre, and I've already gone through
that math for you in the past.
We have shadow studies that we showed regarding what
October 10, 2023
Page 87
we're proposing, and there are no shadows cast onto the Arbor
Trace property by our proposed project and increase in height.
So from that standpoint, there's not a negative impact to our
neighbors to the north.
This is, again, a closer-up of the property. And I went too
fast. The amendment to the settlement agreement allows for us
to donate to the county 1.61 acres. We're required to both
design, permit, and construct a parking facility for the county.
The design of that site -- you have a conceptual design attached
to the settlement agreement, but there will be further discussions
with county staff as to the actual layout and actual parking
spaces that the county would like to see.
The construction will be complete by May 1, 2026, and the
county has incorporated into the PUD an offsite condition now
that doesn't currently exist that we do this parking lot in adding
it to the PUD, so that commitment will be in two locations, in
the PUD as well as into the settlement agreement.
I just want to highlight a couple of the uses that are allowed
on that site that we've agreed to eliminate, and I mentioned the
gas station's allowed; convenience stores are allowed. We've
agreed to eliminate that. Restaurants are allowed; eating places
are allowed, and we will not be giving up our right to have an
eating place on this site. We will not agree there cannot be the
sale of alcohol and some of the other conditions that the
neighbors had requested. But we are, again, willing to work
with the community for purposes of -- and the county for
purposes of the plan.
I just want you to note that there has always been an
understanding that there would be development on this property
by my client even with the county parking facility to be on that
property. In fact, after the NIM, I had some conversations with
October 10, 2023
Page 88
Mr. Rodriguez about what that development would look like.
Mr. Rodriguez tried to get us to give the county the entire site
with no development on it, and we respectfully said we can't
agree to that. We would like to be able to develop a portion of
the property.
We've met with Mr. Rodriguez, and the parking has
evolved, if you will. We had standard parking spaces. Now
the preference is to have boat trailer parking spaces, and we will
continue to have discussions with Mr. Rodriguez as to how the
county would like to see us develop the property.
Just a brief summary of where we are. We're increasing
from 590 to 600 dwelling units, we're adding three stories to
Building No. 5, we're adding an essential service on the golf
course tract, and we're requesting an amendment to the
settlement agreement to allow for all of these uses: The fire
station, and the access to Tarpon Cove, as well as the donation
of the county property.
The Planning Commission recommended approval, 6-1,
and staff is recommending approval of our proposed changes.
Ellen is here if you want further testimony regarding
consistency with the Growth Management Plan and consistency
with the LDC, and your staff has already made those
determinations that we are consistent with both the Growth
Management Plan and the PUD.
And that's an overview of why we're here. We are here
directly as what the settlement agreement says. The parties can
amend it. We're asking you to amend it. We think there's
benefits to the community as well as the developer in amending
this. And with that, that's our overview of our project, and
we're available to answer any questions you may have of me or
anybody on our team.
October 10, 2023
Page 89
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Obviously, this is in
District 2, so it's appropriate that we start with Commissioner
Hall, sir. You have the floor.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chair.
So, Rich, we talked. We met on Friday, and we reviewed
all of this. And I asked you a question that -- what would it
take to get all three acres given to the county instead of just half
of it? Have you thought about that?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah, just a little bit. My client
and I spent a lot of time after we met, and we actually engaged
the services of what we think -- the appropriate professional.
So what we are proposing to you will not detrimentally affect
the property owners to the north.
What my client -- he has a couple concerns. One, the
new -- he's not sure what FEMA's going to do to him regarding
building height and, two, ceiling -- floor-to-ceiling heights
within the building are also something to be more consistent
with the products that are out there today and the competition
that's out there today.
My client is not asking for any more density. My client is
simply asking that he would be able to do 10-foot ceilings
versus 9-foot ceilings, and that correlates to an additional 20 feet
in height. So my client would give up all development rights
on the county piece and his piece if we could keep the 20 stories,
but instead -- so we would add 20 feet to the zoned height and
20 feet to the actual height.
And I have an exhibit. We did a shade analysis because
we thought that people would be concerned about what does that
20 feet do to our neighbors. And if Ellen could help me pull it
up, I won't use my iPad, because I don't want to make it part of
the record.
October 10, 2023
Page 90
We did -- I'm sorry. We looked at -- you could see in the
red is the increase of 20 feet in height, and the red is the increase
in the shadows at the winter solstice. This is the 12:30 -- these
are the worst-case scenarios, worst shadows that will be created
throughout this proposed development, and you will see that the
increase in height and the increase in shadows doesn't block
anybody's -- or doesn't take over anybody's buildings on the
property to the north.
Do I just go -- how do I get to the next one at 4:30? Oh,
thank you.
And then we did it at 4:30 in the afternoon, also worst-case
scenario for the creation of shadows. And you will see that the
additional red shadows does not cast a shadow on any of the
buildings to the north.
So our request is, should the county want the entirety of the
property, that we get those additional 20 feet, and that allows for
greater ceiling height within the buildings or within the units as
they exist today, and it's not a request for any more units than
currently is being requested but, yes, that height would be
requested in exchange for giving up all the development rights
on the property.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So you're asking for the 10
units --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Same ten units.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- extra stories, plus an
additional 20 feet.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HALL: You give us essential services
zoning for the fire station, you put a back door for Tarpon Cove
for their emergency entrance and exit, and you give us all three
acres and forego development on that property?
October 10, 2023
Page 91
MR. YOVANOVICH: That is correct.
COMMISSIONER HALL: All right. And then I have
one more question. You know, the -- in multiple conversations
with the people of District 2 in that area, the settlement -- the
settlement has been an issue. Like, it was promised we
wouldn't open this settlement up again, but the value of looking
at reopening this settlement is for us to gain the fire station and
the -- and the -- and the three acres. So it's not like the
petitioner is asking for something else to open it up to come
back and ask for 60 more units or whatever.
He's just asking for the fifth building to be equal to the
other four, the same density as the other four, with the exception
now of 20 feet extra because of what -- what'd you say about
FEMA?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, FEMA keeps changing as
far as the height goes, and to be consistent with the new
marketplace, most of the buildings in this category have 10-foot
ceilings. So we would like to be -- instead of 9-foot ceilings,
we would like to have 10-foot ceilings.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. Now, the question
would be, what's going to keep you from coming back in the
future for another settlement amendment?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, as we -- when we mentioned
that, there's no land left, so there's nothing else to develop. The
golf course takes up all that space. You're a golfer. You know
how the golf industry has taken off. So that's a very valuable
asset, so that's not going anywhere, and so there's no more land
left on the west side of the road.
COMMISSIONER HALL: All right. So we have the
three issues, really, of whether we're going to open the
settlement and agree to that. That's obvious, a benefit to the
October 10, 2023
Page 92
county; then there's the ask for the height and the density; and
then the give of the fire station and the access and now the
three -- all three acres.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HALL: And I think that that's a decent
deal.
MR. YOVANOVICH: That's it. That's all we're asking.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I think that's -- I think that's a
good deal.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Wait, wait, wait.
COMMISSIONER HALL: We'll hear -- we'll hear public
comment, but I think that's a fair ask. It gives -- it's a win-win
other than -- other than the density. And the 10 units, in my
opinion, aren't bothering a thing. They're adding tax value to
the county. They're not bothering traffic, you know.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Wait, wait. Let
Commissioner Hall -- everyone's going to get --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Time out. Everybody's going
to get -- we've got 46 people we're going to get to hear.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, you've got the floor.
You've got the floor.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm just rehashing, making
sure that I'm very clear and my colleagues are very clear of what
the deal is. And you said there's no more land to come back in
the future to ask for any more amendments.
MR. YOVANOVICH: On the west side, it's fully spoken
for. On the east side --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Citizens, please, please.
You're going to get your turn at the podium. Let the
commissioner speak with the applicant, please.
MR. YOVANOVICH: The east side -- the east side is a
October 10, 2023
Page 93
golf course with a very expensive clubhouse that's going to be
built; many, many millions of dollars. Can I say never the golf
course will ever come forward? I know better than to ever say
that ever again. But if I were a betting person, I would think
that it would be one heck of an ask knowing that they tried it one
other time to put residential on the golf course. I can't imagine
they would come back and try to do that again. But what do I
know? Dick Corace and I will probably be long gone before
that potential possibility could occur.
COMMISSIONER HALL: A green space is valuable,
so...
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALL: What the public probably
doesn't know is there's some other things that the applicant has
done for the county, and I would like for them -- I'd like for that
to be public knowledge, if you could explain those things.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sure. You know, we -- when the
county has needed this property for hurricane cleanup, my client
has always been there and provided that site. Most recently,
last year when the county, after the hurricane, needed a place to
take stuff to from the hurricane, my client provided that
probably almost instantly with the ask. I mean, it was
within -- it was quick. And I said, sure, you can have the site.
They've done that multiple times.
So my client has been ready, willing, and able to help the
community with hurricane cleanup on multiple occasions.
Hasn't ever advertised that. Hasn't said, hey, look at us; we're
such great citizens. We've just done it because we were asked
to, and it's because it was the right thing to do.
So that's, I would say, the primary community giveback
that the county's done. And as you know, in the original
October 10, 2023
Page 94
settlement agreement, there were a lot of payments made to help
with community infrastructure related to that settlement
agreement. But since the settlement agreement was entered
into, there have been multiple asks by the county to help with
cleanup in emergencies, and we've done it.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Was one of those that three
million toward the bridge there on Vanderbilt?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So if we don't approve this,
you keep the three acres; you can do whatever you want to do
with it with no promises or anything?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, other than a promise that it
will get developed some day.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'm going to go to
Commissioner McDaniel, and then let's start with public
comment after that. Sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I think maybe my
first question is for staff, and it has to do with the newly
established trip counts. We talk about these peak-hour trip
counts all the time. Who enforces that, and what are the
ramifications in the event that it's triggered?
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director.
And I may have to bring up Trinity to talk about enforcements
on the trip caps.
But from an infrastructure standpoint, the additional 10
units are not expected to create any unreasonable burden on the
existing infrastructure.
In terms of actual monitoring the additional caps on the
trips associated with it, I think the process that Transportation
has established -- I'll turn to Trinity to give a better explanation,
October 10, 2023
Page 95
because that's outside of my --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You've been doing
really well muddling along till she got there.
MR. BOSI: Yes.
MS. SCOTT: Good morning. For the record, Trinity
Scott, department head for Transportation Management
Services. I should have maybe bumbled along a little bit and let
him go.
So when an applicant comes forward for a Site
Development Plan or a Plats and Plan, they will provide us with
a Traffic Impact Statement that -- and those trips are calculated
based on the Institute of Transportation Engineering. They're
manuals. So for each type of unit, there are a certain number
that are assigned. We keep a running tally of that.
Typically, every year, year and a half, those calculations
are updated. So if you have a single-family house today, the
calculation may be it's eight trips per day. If you go two years
from now, it may increase to 10 based on different studies. So
what it could mean is that when someone is getting towards the
end of their development, if those trip calculations have
increased over the years, they may not be able to realize the full
units that they've been approved for. They may have to cut a
unit or two to be under that trip cap.
So it is -- we look at it when they come in for the Site
Development Plan, but we don't go out and do actual traffic
counts after the fact.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Are the -- and I
doubt that there -- the calculations actually carry the potential
for the use change that was, I think, just, I heard, agreed for the
reduction in intensity for the commercial uses that are not going
to be there. If the entire three acres is bequeathed, that would
October 10, 2023
Page 96
actually reduce the trip counts.
MS. SCOTT: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct. Okay.
And then my other question is -- and I don't know if it's the
applicant or you. There was a representation of completion of
construction by X of '26.
MR. YOVANOVICH: If we only gave you a portion of
the property and we designed, permitted, and constructed, we
had to finish construction of the parking facilities by, I think it
was -- I'd have to go back to that slide. I think it was May 1st
of '26.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. That completion
of the construction had to do with the bequeathed property and
the parking spaces that were going to be provided for boat
access?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Right, and with our co-developing,
yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Not the
construction of the Tower 5?
MR. YOVANOVICH: No. I don't know --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There's no limitations on
it?
MR. YOVANOVICH: No set date on that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just wanted
clarification of that. Thank you.
MR. YOVANOVICH: If I can, since I had a break,
Commissioner Hall, I left a few things off that the developer's
done. Coordinated with the fire district for -- during these
hurricane events to provide meals and other things like that, but
also utilized their own equipment to help coordinate with debris
cleanup with communities in the area, and I think, critically
October 10, 2023
Page 97
important, my client has spent $4 million on a regional drainage
facility to not only address its project, but drainage in the area.
So that's significant public improvements that my client has
done in assisting the community above and beyond what was
needed for its project.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I just want to clear up for the
public, because some of the emails that I'm getting, there are still
some misconceptions of what the applicant's rights are with the
C-2 zoning with the three acres that he has. He can do anything
that's listed for C-2 that he wants. He does not have to go ask
for public input. He does not have to get permission from them
or not get -- or get buy-in or whatever. He can merely just start
an SDP and go through the -- go through the building process
and do what he wants.
I want to make that clear, because this three acres is a
separate part. It's completely separate from the PUD and the
settlement agreement that he's asking. He's offering that as a
gift to the county totally separate.
And for us to try to hammer him or expect him to come to
the public to do what he already has the rights to do -- I'm
saying that because we can talk them out of this. And from
where I come from, I've -- you know, I've learned that you never
knock a gift horse in the mouth. So we can turn him down on
his densities and his height. Then he retains the whole three
acres to do what he wants to and doesn't have to ask a bit of
permission. I just want to make that perfectly clear.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And we don't do the fire station,
and we don't do the emergency access.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Right. We get nothing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's go to public
October 10, 2023
Page 98
comment, if that's okay. I don't have anyone else lit up.
Mr. Miller, why don't you -- if I can -- one of the things I
would just tell citizens, so you have three minutes at the podium.
Some of you have been here many times before. It's really
advantageous if you say somebody that's really representing
your group, and as -- you know, maybe a comfortable speaker at
the podium, you can yield your time to another person. And I'll
just say, generically, one person speaking at the podium that has
15 minutes, time yielded from other people, can be more
effective to put together your view than three people just that
just rapid fire, we agree, we disagree, we agree to disagree. But
it's totally you. This building was built for the people. So
nobody's going to cut you off. You get a little over three
minutes, you know, we want to keep things going.
And, lastly, I'll just say, if the five speakers before you said
exactly what you would say, you still have the option to come to
the podium but, in fairness, to try to, you know, move things
along, you know, we appreciate when someone says,
everything's already been said that I wanted to say. But
nobody's trying to talk you into that. I just wanted to make
some generic statements on how the process works here.
Having said that, Mr. Miller, if we would go with public
speakers. And if you queue up at both podiums, but then at
some point he's going to transition to some people online so that
we know they're paying attention and we're not forgetting about
them and we get a good mixture of feedback.
So, sir.
MR. MILLER: All right. Mr. Chairman, your first
speaker is Perry DeSiato. He'll be followed by Ron Rogers.
Mr. DeSiato has been ceded additional time from David
Heebner. Could you raise your hand when I call your name.
October 10, 2023
Page 99
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
Michael T. Gilbert.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Or, I'm sorry. It is Michelle. My
apologies, Michelle.
And Deborah Fox.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Mr. DeSiato will have a total of 12
minutes, and Mr. Rogers, you'll be over at the other podium.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm going to yield to Perry.
MR. MILLER: Oh, you're going to yield your time to
Perry, so that will give him a total of 15 minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We have another.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Well, I did not see them marked
that way on your slips.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, what is your name?
MR. MILLER: Who else said they wanted to donate time?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Here. Sisk, Martha Sisk.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Let me --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: When you came in the
door.
MR. MILLER: How about spelling your last name, sir.
MR. SISK: S-i-s-k.
MR. MILLER: Oh, here you are.
Anyone else ceding time? That's the only one I've found
marked. So, Mr. DeSiato, you'll have a total of 8 minutes -- 18
minutes, excuse me, and will be followed by David Goldstein.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There's a lady with her
hand up, Troy.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am.
October 10, 2023
Page 100
MS. LeBEAU: I'll cede my time, Teri LeBeau, to Paula
Kutlick.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Can you please come over to the
table and see me. It's kind of hard to do this on the fly.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Right now we're just
looking for people that want to cede time to this gentleman.
And, sir, it sounds like you have 18 minutes to speak, so why
don't we -- why don't we proceed.
MR. DeSIATO: Well, thank you, Commissioners. My
name's Perry DeSiato. I'm president of the Tarpon Cove
committee, and we're a part of the coalition of the communities
along the Wiggins Pass corridor which consist of Wiggins Lakes
Preserves, Cove Towers, Wiggins Bay, Pelican Isle, Aqua, and
the Wiggins Dock Association. That's over a thousand people
that have been concerned and been very involved in all this
going on for years and years and years, and every time we think
we have a deal, we find out we don't have a deal. So it's very
concerning to us with Items 9A and 12A, and we want to
address them in tandem.
I want to start off with your consideration to the settlement
agreement itself on the Cocohatchee Bay PUD. Since we've
been in eight years, we thought that we finally got this done.
So my first question is, when is a deal a deal? When is it
really a deal? It seems like every time we think it's a deal, it
changes again. This is very frustrating. This is the third time
that I can recall that Lodge/Abbott has looked to change the
settlement agreement. So my question is, why do we need to
change the agreement? Why? Why is it necessary to change
it?
Let me start with two quotes from an email from the
organization by Commissioner Hall to our organization. The
October 10, 2023
Page 101
first quote: The developer is being generous to the people of
the county by offering us parking and limiting his development
options. Secondly, in response to a question about, well, what
happened to parking only on Tract 10 that the developer
committed to during our NIM meeting, what happened to that?
And Mr. -- or Commissioner Hall's response, quote,
unquote, it's still in effect on Parcel A. Parcel B was always
intended to be developed. Really? It was never mentioned in
the NIM meeting. We have it in writing from the developer.
We have drawings that the developer gave us. It was never
brought at the two parcels. It was never an A and a B. It was
just -- and you say it, and I quote it: Adding 10 units to
increase our total to -- 590 to 600 units. We'll give you the
essential service; that's the fire place lot; and we will allow a
donation to the county of the three plus/minus acres parcel for
100 parking spaces. That was it. There was no A. There was
no B. We're going to donate the whole thing to the county.
They gave us pretty drawings, and it showed us the same
thing in their drawing. It's 100 spaces for the boat parking.
Zero anything else on it. Never mentioned.
So when I look at that, I say to myself, what was so
generous about that? We're simply trying to make a deal to
increase the density. And why? Because we all know that the
real estate market has gotten much hotter, so the builder now
wants to take advantage of that market space. It was never
disclosed about the 42 spaces and building a strip center in that
commercial piece, and we only found out about it by accident
two weeks ago that this was going to happen.
So the developer's statement that -- and his drawings show
that Tract 10 was always supposed to be for the parking lot, and
give us a slice of the firehouse land and -- for our -- and in
October 10, 2023
Page 102
tradeoff, give us 10 more units.
Now, I feel that either the developer was deceiving us at the
NIM meeting or decided to renege on his proposal. It was one
of the two items, because he put it in writing. He gave us the
drawings. He's the one that told us what he wanted to get done.
Now it's all changed.
So was the NIM meeting truthful or deceitful, or was the
developer [sic] being reneged?
At the very least, I'm asking that there's a continuance of 60
days on this hearing to formulate a new NIM meeting so the
developer can come back and give us a truthful story on what he
wants to do on this residence [sic] and not our -- not to consider
their request for their changes.
If you really want them to have their units, if you think it's
that important to you, then let's get a continuance again and go
back to the deal we've accepted before. And I have to admit,
now that I just heard -- Commissioner, I was going to trash all
over you, but I've got to give you kudos, bud. You came back
on the end here. If the developer, in fact, is going to drop it
totally, then my question is, is the county going to own this
land? Is the developer still going to own this land? If the
county's going to own this land, what are you going to do with
it? Are you going to do something to it later? Are you going
to put a parking lot in for the boat overflow? Are you going to
be able to do something commercial on it? Because it didn't
change the zoning. So I have that question, you know, what's
going to happen if you do take it over, in regards to that.
Lastly, if you just say no to the extra 10 units simply
because -- and I was a builder for 30 years. When I went in for
a zoning change or an amendment to a zoning change, it's
because I had to prove hardship. I wanted -- there was a
October 10, 2023
Page 103
hardship problem that came up during my development, and
now I'm here to get an amendment change because of this
hardship. What hardship is it for the present plan that now we
have that you want to increase the building from 17 to 20
stories? The hardship is strictly this, for the builder, those 10
extra units will yield 90 to $100 million in sales, and that's what
this is all really about. It's to pick up the sales money; nothing
else. That's all they want. We all know it.
So if that's what they want, give us what we want. When
is a deal not a deal if you don't give us what we want?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir? Sir? You're speaking
to us.
MR. DeSIATO: Okay. But these are my goombahs in
here, and these are who I talk to.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: They're my goombahs, too.
So we're both Italian, and they're all our goombahs, but you're
here to speak to the commissioners.
MR. DeSIATO: All right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, continue, sir.
MR. DeSIATO: Okay. Sorry about that. I get a little
excited.
In any event, if, in fact, the Commission can add to -- if the
developer's willing to give it up for -- so he could put a 10-foot
ceiling in his units instead of 9, I, quite frankly -- I don't think
that's so bad of a deal, but I've got to have a little confidence in,
what are you going to do with the three acres that you have
now? Is it going to sit the way it is? What's your intentions?
Because we learned there was going to be a strip center. So,
okay, if that's off the table today, what's on the table tomorrow
for the piece? I think that needs to be clarified, and I thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, grazie, grazie.
October 10, 2023
Page 104
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is David Goldstein, and
he will be followed by Teri LeBean [sic].
MS. LeBEAU: LeBeau.
MR. MILLER: Oh, that's a U. I'm sorry.
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Before you start the clock on my
three minutes, I do have a question for counsel, and that is
whether receipt of a donation from counsel for the developer or
the developer should have required disclosure on the ex parte
issues.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Not in a meeting.
MR. KLATZKOW: You just heard them in public talk
about it. There's nothing secret about it, which is the
purpose -- which is the purpose -- the purpose of ex parte is so
that there are no secret discussions. That's the purpose.
You've just heard a public discussion of it, so it's -- your
question's irrelevant.
MR. GOLDSTEIN: There was no public discussion of
contributions to the campaigns -- to the candidates. That's what
I'm concerned about for the ex parte discussion.
MR. KLATZKOW: I have no idea what you're talking
about, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Just for the record, I received
zero from the applicant.
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, continue. The floor is
yours.
MR. GOLDSTEIN: My name is David Goldstein. I'm
president of Tower Trace, one of the entities which, together
with our two condo associations and our management service
company, comprise Arbor Trace. I'm speaking on behalf of all
these entities.
October 10, 2023
Page 105
I'm going to repeat a couple of the questions that were
raised earlier. One is, why are we here today? And two is,
when, if ever, is a settlement agreement final?
In 2006, the last time Lodge/Abbott sought and obtained an
amendment, Rich Yovanovich said on the record, it is our
commitment to limit density to 590, and we will not come in and
ask for an amendment to increase that density. That is, in fact,
a commitment, which is why I again ask, why are we here
today?
One of the major issues in the prior proceedings which
extended over several years was the height of the towers in
general and the fifth tower in particular. It is clear from the
record that the reason for limiting the height of the fifth tower to
17 stories was to try to better [sic] architectural look, vis a vis,
the Arbor Point high-rise.
And now I found out today for the first time that not only
are they looking to go to 20 stories but to also increase the
height to add another 20 feet. At that point it towers over the
other pieces of Kalea Bay as well as Arbor Trace. This makes
no sense at all.
Furthermore, why should the developer gain additional
rights when it has not met its obligation in the original PUD to
build a perimeter berm? The lack of a berm exacerbated the
damage suffered by Arbor Trace during Hurricane Ian by
facilitating water flow from Kalea Bay into Arbor Trace.
Seventeen years ago Lodge/Abbott made a commitment to
limit the number of units, and there's no reason to allow changes
at this time.
Furthermore, there is nothing here that, if the agreement is
amended, eliminates the right for further amendments in the
future. For all of these reasons, we ask the Commission to deny
October 10, 2023
Page 106
the proposed amendment, at least with respect to the approved
number of units and stories in Kalea Bay.
Please note that there is nothing that would prevent Arbor
Trace from coming back. If you feel you must vote -- you have
to at least vote to eliminate the right to amend the agreement,
which is why I ask if a settlement agreement is ever final.
This thing should not have been reopened after 17 years,
and there's nothing that precludes the possibility of it being
reopened again in the future.
Thank you. Please do not modify the agreement.
MR. MILLER: Teri LeBeau wanted to cede her time to
Paula Kutlick, who will be our next speaker. She will have six
minutes. She will be followed on Zoom by Ann Roccio and
then Barbara Kelly.
MR. KUTLICK: Sir, I'd like to cede my time also to
Paula.
MR. MILLER: What is your name, sir?
MR. KUTLICK: David Kutlick, and I think there's
other --
MR. MILLER: Yes, okay. It will be nine minutes,
ma'am.
MS. KUTLICK: Okay. I don't think I'll need nine
minutes. Thank you.
My name is Paula Kutlick. I live at Aqua. I am part of
the concerned citizens and community of Wiggins Pass.
We have a real conundrum here. We have a possible deal,
and I think their past history leaves us all suspect of this deal.
So I think the first question we have to get out of the way is,
what does the county plan on doing with this three -- three
acres? What do you think -- and I know this might be a
surprise to you. What would be your gut reaction? What do
October 10, 2023
Page 107
you think you're going to do? Do you think you're going to put
up a parking deck? Are we trading one devil for another?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, we're just hearing from
you, ma'am. It's not a Q&A. We'll hear that --
MS. KUTLICK: Well, I understand that, but that's one of
our concerns. You know, we don't want -- we have a
residential community. Yes, this is zoned commercial, but it's
been zoned commercial since 1982.
We have a very luxurious neighborhood here, and it's been
a very nice luxurious neighborhood for years now. So that is a
very big issue for all of us here. To put anything commercial in
that place now or even a parking deck would ruin a gorgeous
neighborhood. So that's for future -- obviously, future
problems.
But, obviously, we're all concerned with them sticking to a
deal. And I'm speaking out of turn maybe, but what if a -- this
is a proposal: Rather than grant them their request at this point
in time, why don't we have them have a deal whereby you agree
to grant them their request to the increased height in exchange
for them transferring this property to the county and do it at the
same time rather than, okay, we'll give you the land, but it's
going to be you give them this first, and then maybe they'll give
you the land, because that seems to be the past track record. I
don't think anybody wants to be back here facing the same
situation, which seems to have happened before.
I think we're all concerned with that happening. It's a
suggestion. And I think that we've got to -- we've got to have
some faith here, because we don't have it from them. We've
had bad faith, in our opinion, and I think it's about time we have
some -- some something in writing from them.
Thank you.
October 10, 2023
Page 108
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker will be on Zoom, Ann
Roccio, and she will be followed on Zoom by Barbara Kelly,
and then Bill Lambert.
Ann, you're being prompted to unmute your microphone, if
you'll do so at this time. Ann Roccio, Rauccio?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. Stick with me, Zoom people.
Let's move on. Let's try Barbara Kelly. Barbara, we should
be -- you should be receiving a prompt to unmute yourself, if
you'll do so at this time.
I see you there, Barbara.
MS. KELLY: Hello. Can you hear me?
MR. MILLER: Yes. You have three minutes, ma'am.
MS. KELLY: Okay, thank you.
I just wanted to say that in the past Lodge/Abbott was
allowed to increase the height of all the buildings except for
Building 5. And, without notice, they had also increased the
footprint of all the buildings by turning them on an angle instead
of being in a straight line and, because of this, the buildings are
closer together than was allowed on the original plan, and this
afforded them the ability to increase the number of bedrooms on
the original plan -- they were not on the original plan, and this
afforded them the ability to increase the -- how close they were
to each other as well. So they aren't as far apart as they were
supposed to be in the first place.
And they also did try to change the proposed golf course
into family housing, which we really opposed, and was voted
down. So what's to stop them from trying to come back again
and do that again?
The big concern is that they will not hold to this deal and
October 10, 2023
Page 109
will keep coming back to try and change it. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker on Zoom is going to be
Bill Lambert, and he will be followed by Karen -- I'm going to
guess at this pronunciation -- Wohn.
Mr. Lambert, you're being prompted to unmute your mic.
I see you've done that. You have three minutes, sir.
MR. LAMBERT: Okay, thank you very much.
I'm a resident and the president of the homeowners
association from Falling Waters North, which is just north of
where -- the fire station off the golf course property, and many
of our homeowners have communicated with me and myself.
We are concerned about the noise related to a fire station being
there in a residential area.
We have Tarpon Cove on the south side of them, and up on
the north is all residential communities, and a fire station brings
noise. At least my experience with a fire station is a lot of
times the doors are open, they have loud bells that ring when
somebody's phone rings, and, of course, when the fire alarms go
off, when they have calls, those types of things.
And it's -- you know, we bought these -- our condos, our
properties, 20 years ago. This was zoned residential. There
was no -- no change, you know, noted. Then it was -- then the
residentials were removed with previous agreements to build
into Kalea Bay, and they made it to golf course property.
So -- and now the golf course is being built, and now we
want to put a fire station up there. It is just -- it's going to be
noise and it's -- you know, it's a change that -- when we bought
our condos, there was no notice that, you know, this could be
a -- you know, we could build a shopping center or we could
build a, you know, whatever here. This was a residential area.
So we have concerns over that.
October 10, 2023
Page 110
And it's my understanding that less than a mile away, the
county, or the fire district, whatever, owns the property on Old
41 that was slated for a golf course -- or for a fire station. So
why -- you know, if the builder wants to donate a fire station,
why don't we have it built over there? Just -- that's our
concerns.
Thank you for the time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is going to be Karen
Wohn, W-o-h-n. Karen, I hope I'm spelling [sic] that correctly.
You should be getting prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do
that at this time. I see you have. Karen, you have three
minutes. And, Karen -- I'm sorry. One minute, Karen.
Karen will be followed here in the room by Daniel Cyr.
Go ahead, Karen.
MS. WOHN: Sure. So I'm a resident of Pelican Isle,
neighboring Pelican Isle, and so I have two requests for the
Commission to consider with regard to Parcels A and B
designated at this point as a parking lot.
And, really, my first concern is there's a tree buffer and the
landscape buffer that's shown on the proposed drawings, and I
ask that however this property ends up going, if it's county
property or if it goes over for development, that this be built out
quickly. We talked about a May 2026 completion. That's two
and a half years looking at the property as it is now. I suspect
there'll be construction vehicles on there during what's
happening at the golf course.
But, regardless, I really would like us to put some attention
on the streetscape on the Vanderbilt Drive side especially, which
we all view from Pelican Isle and anyone driving down the
street.
My second comment is if Parcel B does become a
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restaurant, there is an outdoor dining component that's shown on
the drawings, which is probably a huge concern to a lot of
people that are very close to that. But I do ask, if that's
approved, for whatever reason, that the use of that be limited to
dawn and dusk, which is when the public launch would be used,
so we have no nighttime component in that area. We have a
very low noise level currently in the neighborhood, and I would
like to make sure that we continue to keep that in the future.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Next speaker here in the room is Daniel
Cyr. He'll be followed by James Fil.
MR. CYR: Good morning, Council. My name is Daniel
Cyr, a resident of Wiggins Pass, and I did what you asked. I cut
it in half because of earlier comments.
So I will leave you with this: My concern is 1.3 acres, she
just talked about, becoming rezoned to commercial, allowing for
a restaurant or a store, and I had heard a gas station, but I guess
that's moot at this point, at the Vanderbilt/Wiggins Pass
southeast corner, when there's -- a mile away is 41, maybe less
than a mile with restaurants, a gas station, stores that are still
unoccupied.
So please protect us from the rich that appear to challenge
our system, laws, and our rules. Developers should not be able
to lead government, and it sounds like you don't allow that
either.
I'm confident you're against it. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is James Fil. He'll be
followed by Mark Loewe.
MR. FIL: Thank you for the time. My name is James Fil.
I'm a resident of Falling Waters North Preserve. We are on the
north side of the access road from the fire station with our
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neighbor being Tarpon Cove.
Between us was a natural preserve, drainage basin,
floodplain, call it what you will, and now, right in the middle of
that is an elevated road. Now, my -- most concerning are the
acres and acres of increased elevation of the golf course.
When Ian came through, most, if not -- well, most of that
golf course was probably under water at the time. Now,
visually, it's three feet higher.
I have questions for the Board, developer, probably
SFWMD. What was the previous mean elevation of that golf
course parcel, and what will be the final elevation of that parcel?
It's obviously much higher than it was. How many cubic yards
of fill dirt were brought in by those hundreds of dump trucks?
I'm sure engineers requested a specific amount or accountants
could verify this amount with their invoices.
An interesting math calculation would be the total number
of fill dirt yards equals how many gallons of displaced water.
I'm sorry if I'm bothering you on your phone.
COMMISSIONER HALL: No, you're not bothering me.
MR. FIL: I did see that the large storm drain pipes were
put in under Wiggins Pass Road where it intersects with
Vanderbilt. Those will work fine for rain events at low tide.
All of that was under water during Ian. That's not the cure-all.
My concern -- in summation, my concern is our complex
and surrounding communities that have not increased our
elevations will become the floodplain.
Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Mark Loewe. He
will be followed on Zoom by Charles Wolfe and then Dale
Myer.
MR. LOEWE: All right. My name is Mark Loewe. I
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am the property manager for Arbor Trace.
I, too, have some drainage or flooding concerns, so I ask
that the county commissioners do not amid -- I mean, change the
PUD or open the settlement agreement.
During Hurricane Ian, Arbor Trace did have
flooding -- significant flooding coming from our neighbors,
Kalea Bay. Since then, we have realized why. First of all,
they filled in a retention pond and made it a construction parking
lot. Thankfully, the South Florida Water Management District
has come out and have asked them to change that, but it's too
late. We lost 50 cars. We lost our community bus. We
would have had more support here, but we don't have a
community bus. Most of our residents are senior citizens;
average age about 85 years old.
So besides losing over 50 vehicles and seeing damage to
our property, they still have not built the perimeter berm that has
been discussed earlier by some other public speakers. This
perimeter berm is part the original PUD. This perimeter berm
would have prevented probably a lot of the flooding or damage
that we -- that our community suffered. Why change the PUD
until they live up to the obligations of that PUD?
One other thing, the deal that Commissioner Hall made
with the developer really is no deal for Arbor Trace, and I don't
think it's a deal for the other communities either. First of all,
Arbor Trace gets nothing out of this deal. And then, as
mentioned, Falling Waters doesn't want the fire station there, so
that's not a deal. And the commercial parking, that's not a deal
either, because we don't know what the county's going to do.
Plus, just from my understanding, is the fire station and a
parking lot for a boat that was already part of a deal. So what
deal is the community getting?
October 10, 2023
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So if the commissioners are thinking about maybe changing
the PUD or opening a settlement agreement for this deal, I'd ask
you that you re-think, because it's not a deal.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker on Zoom will be
Charles Wolf, and he will be followed also on Zoom by Dale
Myer.
Mr. Wolfe, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if
you'll do so at this time. Charles Wolfe. Mr. Wolfe, you
should be getting prompted to unmute yourself.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. We'll try them later.
Let's try Dale Myer. Mr. Dale Myer, you're being
prompted to unmute your microphone, if you'll do that at this
time. I see you've unmuted.
MR. MYER: I believe I'm unmuted now.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. You have three minutes.
MR. MYER: Thank you -- thank you, Commissioners, for
your time.
I just wanted to say that the proposal that Commissioner
Hall is looking at for the three acres on the corner of Wiggins
Pass Road and Vanderbilt seems like a very good compromise
for that situation on that, and I really appreciate his efforts on
behalf of all the residents in that area.
But I do have concerns that have been voiced before about
what's the actual use of that three acres on that corner. And if
it's all for boat parking or recreational to support the recreational
people on the weekends that want their boats, I'm all for it, and it
limits the diminishment of the quiet enjoyment of all the
residents around that area.
So thank you very much, Commissioner Hall, and I hope
you can make that deal work. That is all.
October 10, 2023
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MR. MILLER: Okay. Thank you.
We're going to now go to David Cort on Zoom, and
hopefully we'll follow David up with David Sibits.
Mr. Cort, I see you've unmuted -- well, I thought you had
unmuted yourself. Where did Mr. Cort go? I think Mr. Cort
might have accidently hung up. No, there he is. Mr. Cort.
Let's try him again.
MR. CORT: Yes.
MR. MILLER: There you go. Thank you, sir. You have
three minutes.
MR. CORT: Commissioners, my name is David Cort. I
live at Cove Towers Preserves in North Naples, and I'm a
spokesperson for concerned citizens and communities of
Wiggins Bay, which, as you may know, is a group representing
well over 1,000 residents and dock owners immediately adjacent
to the proposed Tract 10 development.
Hopefully, you've had a chance to read the article in today's
Naples Daily News that provides background information on our
viewpoint. We were originally planning on opposing the PUD
amendment and also revised amendment to the settlement
agreement because of our concerns about the commercial
development. We are now -- in light of Mr. Yovanovich's
proposal to donate the entire three acres to Collier County, we
are withdrawing our opposition to the PUD amendment and the
settlement agreement changes with the proviso that the
settlement agreement specifically includes three -- the entire
three acres being donated to Collier County.
I think I echo the concerns about the -- from the other
speakers about what exactly will be done with the three acres. I
might even, since the two-hour discussion earlier this morning
about Conservation Collier, suggest that the -- this is
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environmentally sensitive land, and it's within a couple hundred
feet of the existing Cocohatchee Bay preserve and that it be
added to the preserve.
And in any event, I wanted to thank Commissioner Hall for
all of his hard work and engagement on this issue with our group
as well as with the developer, and we see this as a win-win, and
we would support the proposals that were discussed today,
including complete donation of the three acres of Tract 10 to
Collier County.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker on Zoom is David
Sibits. He will be followed here in the room by Judi Palay.
Mr. Sibits, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if
you'll do that at this time. I see you've unmuted. You have
three minutes, sir.
MR. SIBITS: I waive my three minutes. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: All right. We're going to go to Judi Palay
here. Judy, did Hermione want to cede time to you?
MS. PALAY: Yes.
MR. MILLER: Okay. So she will have -- Hermione, can
you raise your hand for me?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Oh, thank you.
She will have six minutes, and she will be followed by
Howard London.
MR. LONDON: Waive my time.
MR. MILLER: Just waive your time?
MR. LONDON: Yes.
MR. MILLER: Okay. So instead of Howard, after
Ms. Palay, Richard, is it Dooley?
MR. DOOLEY: Yes, sir.
October 10, 2023
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MR. MILLER: Okay. Ms. Palay?
MS. PALAY: I'm Judi Palay. I've lived in this area,
Mr. Hall's district, for 20 years.
How to slay our dragon. Apparently, we can't, or can we?
Who is our -- who controls our dragon? Let me set the scene.
Vanderbilt Drive in the year 2000, 17 driveways between
Wiggins Pass Road to the south and Woods Edge Parkway to
the north. Lovely developments that honored the statements
from leadership that we did not want to become another Miami
Beach.
Not too many years later, Kalea Bay presented plans to
develop both sides of Vanderbilt near Wiggins Pass asking to
put over 100 houses on what is now the golf course land brought
out many residents in the area. The traffic on Vanderbilt, plus
the traffic on Wiggins Pass, along with the bicycles, would
create a dangerous situation for all. An agreement got
hammered out, also known as the settlement agreement. That
agreement kept being modified.
Fast forward, Building 1 became 60 feet wider. This
meant that all the other buildings had to be skewed to fit on the
property. The developer asked for other changes: 2,000
residents in the area signed petitions asking the commissioners
not to open the agreement. Commissioners who were elected to
represent their constituents, once again, ignored us and
continued to allow the developers to put up more buildings that
certainly do not fit in the architecture in the area.
Please, Google California high-rise prisons. We, who
were here first, love our area. We have had tortoises and bears,
bobcats and eagles, beautiful trees and seabirds with unrivaled
sunsets from the time we got near the end of Wiggins Pass Road
to our drive north on Vanderbilt Drive, but not anymore. We
October 10, 2023
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no longer have those, the very reason we bought here.
We are trying to save the integrity of our Cocohatchee Bay
neighborhoods. Regardless of contributions you may have
received, we are urging you to please, please do not open our
settlement agreement.
You represent us. And we are asking you to help slay the
dragon, the overbuilders, those who want quantity of units, not
life quality for those who were here first. Please do not open
our settlement agreement.
As I've tried to so clearly state, opening up the settlement
agreement can and will change the density of population. It
will destroy the faith in our county commissioners who
promised to uphold that agreement.
The golf course could very easily become 60 or more
homes as originally requested, and our beautiful green space will
never be.
As presented to the Planning Commission, the land on the
southeast corner of Wiggins Pass was going to be given to the
county for 100 boat trailer parking and maintained by
Lodge/Abbott. There were no strings ever mentioned. Now
they're adding the strings. Give them three more floors and
then...
I urge you to listen to the residents of this area. Do not
destroy the public trust. Please do not open the settlement
agreement. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker here in the room is
Richard Dooley, and he will be followed by Frank Halas.
MR. DOOLEY: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, thank
you. My name's Richard Dooley. I'm a resident of Princeton
Place, abuts the Tract 10.
I had to change my whole thing because of the settlement.
October 10, 2023
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Compliments to council; split the opposition. Arbor Trace is
now on one side. The residents of Wiggins Pass are on the
other.
Compliments to you, Commissioner Hall. I think that's a
reasonable -- reasonable idea. I'm a realist.
When is a settlement agreement not able to be amended?
When there's a penalty for opening it. Let me suggest -- I'm in
favor of a 60-day workshop, a 60-day moratorium while we put
together a workshop. Add a $10 million penalty to opening the
amendment, and probably you won't get it reopened.
Maybe -- the parking situation, we know that you have to
put a parking lot; otherwise, the developer is going to have a
problem with overflow parking. So maybe we work something
out that we get some kind of a buffer zone that covers Princeton
Place and maybe up and down the area that abuts the golf
course. They need it because they've got trees that have died in
the storm.
The big thing for me personally is lock the deal down.
When you have the word "amend," you can always amend
something. I'm sure that the attorneys can lock it down with a
penalty of 10-, $20 million to reopen it.
Thank you, gentlemen.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Frank Halas, and he
will be followed on Zoom by Ed DeJong and then Frans
Ronsholt.
MR. HALAS: Good afternoon, Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll be damned.
MR. HALAS: I'm Frank Halas. I was a commissioner
with Collier County. I'm now emeritus.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, do you want to trade seats
with us? All in favor?
October 10, 2023
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MR. HALAS: I've been in that seat. I know.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you for your service,
sir.
MR. HALAS: Thank you, and thank you for your service
also.
I was a commissioner -- I was one of the commissioners
who was deeply involved in the development issue for about
eight years. This issue came to a head when a Bert Harris
lawsuit was -- affecting the whole county was filed by the
developer. Much water has passed under the bridge, but I
believe it amounts to about -- excuse me. Much water has
passed over the bridge. The Bert Harris Claim was about
$280 million that was going to be subjected to the Commission
and to Collier County and the residents.
With the skills and hours of work by county staff, the
citizens, many of whom were totally against the original plan,
and with the help of five commissioners who were seated at the
time, and with the developer, residents of the area to be
highly -- that were going to be highly impacted, this settlement
was reached. Many concessions were made by all sides who
worked through this litigation.
It is one -- it was a great day for Collier County to see this
lawsuit withdrawn from the developer. Let's not repeat county
history by tearing up the hard-fought agreement by all who
worked to relieve this huge burden that was placed upon the
county and its residents.
No rights of the developer have been infringed. It is
critical that the county residents can count on their elected
representatives to uphold the agreements that have been made in
the past. If anything, we need to maintain this agreement
because things have intensified over time, and it puts the
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place -- it puts the place in jeopardy. Hurricane Ian proved this
by the flooding that took place by its neighbor to the north.
I am asking you to preserve this hard-fought agreement and
do not repeat history. This is nothing more than a bait and
switch.
Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker on Zoom will be
Ed -- your next speaker on Zoom will be Ed DeJong, followed
by Frans Ronsholt.
Mr. DeJong, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if
you'll do so. I see you've done that. You have three minutes,
sir.
MR. DeJONG: Yeah. I waive my time. Thank you very
much.
MR. MILLER: All right. Thank you, sir.
We'll go, then, to Frans Ronsholt, and we will follow him
with Jack Hultstrand.
Bear with me just a second, Commissioner.
Mr. Ronsholt, you've unmuted. You have three minutes,
sir.
MR. RONSHOLT: Thank you. I'm Frans Ronsholt. I'm
a resident in Wiggins Bay in Cove Talis.
I appreciate the effort done by our commissioner, Chris
Hall, to come to an agreement, but I don't understand why there
has now had to be another 20 feet added. The value of 10 extra
units in Kalea must already, with the original height, be worth
far more than the market value of three acres on the corner of
Wiggins Pass and Vanderbilt Drive and possibly one acre for the
fire station.
So I think, even with what was proposed originally at the
NIM meeting last year, the proposal is very favorable to the
October 10, 2023
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developer.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker on Zoom will be Jack
Hultstrand, and he will be followed on Zoom by James Owens.
Mr. Hultstrand, you're being prompted to unmute yourself,
if you'll do that. I see you have, sir. You have three minutes.
MR. HULTSTRAND: Thank you. I cede my time. The
comments that have been made, I think, have summarized the
positions of both sides, and I'll continue to listen. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: All right. I just had a person drop, so
we'll go instead to James Owens and follow him on Zoom by
Mark Moeggenberg.
Mr. Owens, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if
you'll do that. James Owens.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. Stick with me, here, Zoom guy.
Let's try Mark Moeggenberg. Mr. Moeggenberg, you're
being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do that at this time.
Mr. Moeggenberg?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: I'll tell you what, let's come back here in
the room for our last two speakers in person, Joe Wood, and
then Douglas Fee.
MR. WOOD: Howdy. My name is Joe Wood. I live at
669 Mainsail Place in Tarpon Cove. My property backs up to
the golf course with the crick running down in between.
I have lived there for 17 years. The problem is the crick
down between. In 17 years, I saw the crick flood one time.
When it flooded, the water flowed onto the golf course area
instead of our homes. Now there's been so much fill added to
the golf course area, the elevation there is so much higher, I am
October 10, 2023
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concerned what's going to happen the next time we got an
excessive rain.
I would have hoped that the concrete tiles/pipes that they
put in would take care of it. I hope they have, but I have not
seen anything run down along Wiggins Pass.
If there is a problem, you're going to be hearing from
Morgan and Morgan and as well as engineer, the chief engineer
who allowed that. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Doug Fee, and then
he will be followed on Zoom by Mark Godecki and then Mary
Massaro, also on Zoom.
MR. FEE: Good afternoon. For the record, my name is
Doug Fee. Thank you for the ability to speak today, the
freedom that we have here in this country.
I'm here, of course, to say to you, do not open the
settlement. Do not change things. Leave it alone.
Frank Halas was commissioner back in 2006, and he spoke
that the citizens, the residents in the area were involved in this
settlement agreement. In fact, I was one of those residents.
And we worked hard on those stipulations, those agreements.
And we don't want to see a change.
Part of what we agreed to was to put the units on the west
side of Vanderbilt Drive and leave the golf course, which was
zoned, and if for some reason in the future, you didn't have a
golf course, you would have green space. Those were really the
two major things that we agreed to.
And the County Commission at the time voted with the
developer to settle the $280 million lawsuit.
My question to you is: In this hearing, are you somehow
going down the road putting the taxpayers back into a situation
where we can be sued again? I don't know the answer because
October 10, 2023
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I'm not an attorney. But $280 million is a lot of money.
We just went through budget hearings, and you were
talking about 28 million and changing this and changing that,
Conservation Collier. We're talking 280 million. So are we
settled? Because we, the residents in the neighborhood, thought
back in 2008 when this was done that we're settled, but if we're
not settled, could we be back here another year from now or two
years from now or five years from now? When is it settled?
And we're asking you, Commissioners, we have, and each
of you received, two inches of petitions, okay, a packet, 197
pages. These come from all the residents in the area
surrounding this parcel. And don't get me wrong, I like Kalea
Bay. It's a great neighborhood in our neighborhood. These
people I know. But at some point we, the residents, we have to
rely on you. You are our representatives. You do the deal.
Please consider also that there are other Bert Harris lawsuit
settlements around the county. Are you setting something
today in our neighborhood, in our area, that then you will be
asked for down the road to undo? Keep in mind the lawsuit.
Keep in mind that we need you to leave everything alone.
And I thank you for your time. I thank the audience as
well for their time.
MR. MILLER: All right. Mr. Chair, the rest of our
speakers are on Zoom. Your next speaker on Zoom is Mark
Godecki, and he will be followed by Mary Massaro.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: How many more do we have
on Zoom, sir?
MR. MILLER: It's 11, but I thought I'd try to recall the
four people who did not respond real quick at the end, if that's
all right with you, sir.
Mr. Godecki, I see you've unmuted yourself. You have
October 10, 2023
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three minutes, sir.
MR. GODECKI: Yeah, I yield my time.
MR. MILLER: All right, sir.
Thank you very much. So we will try Mary Massaro,
followed by Mike Smith.
Mary, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll
do that at this time. You have three minutes, Mary.
MS. MASSARO: I cede my time. Good morning. I
cede my time as well. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Thank you very much.
Let's try Mike Smith, then. Mr. Smith,
momentarily -- you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if
you'll do that at this time. Mike Smith? There you are, sir.
You have three minutes.
MR. SMITH: Okay. Thank you. I will cede my time.
Everything's been said that I wanted to express, so thank you
very much for your time.
MR. MILLER: Thank you, sir.
Your next speaker on Zoom is Roger Karam, and he will be
followed by Shannon Villemez.
Roger, I hope I'm saying your last name -- is it Karam or
Karem? You have three minutes, sir.
MR. KARAM: It's Karam, but thank you. I'll cede my
time, too.
MR. MILLER: All right. Thank you very much, sir.
Shannon Villemez. Shannon, momentarily, you're going
to be prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do so. I see you
have, Shannon. You have three minutes.
MS. VILLEMEZ: Thank you very much for your time.
My name is Shannon Villemez, and I live in Tarpon Cove.
Perry DeSiato has already mentioned a lot of the things. I
October 10, 2023
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just wanted to say that I appreciate the proposal by our
representative, Chris Hall, and I like the idea of us getting the
full three acres and the fire station, et cetera. I also like the
proposal that there will be a fine if we open the settlement
agreement again and that we put a stipulation that Arbor Trace
gets the berm prevention for them so that they don't have to
experience the flooding the next time we have a hurricane come
by.
The only other thing I wanted to say was on most holidays
and weekdays during season there are trucks and boat trailers
parked all along Wiggins Pass Road and along Vanderbilt Drive.
Not only is it unsightly, it's dangerous to have all of these
vehicles parked along the road. So I'm very much in favor of
the full three acres being used for overflow parking for the
marina so that we can remove the unsightly trucks and trailers
along the side of the road and make it less dangerous.
Thank you very much for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker on Zoom is Sheila
Farrell, and then she will be followed by Susan Kane.
Sheila, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll
do that. Thank you. You have three minutes, ma'am.
MS. FERRELL: I cede my time. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: All right. Stick with me, Isaac, on Zoom.
We're going to try Susan Kane next. Ms. Kane, you're
being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do that at this time.
I see you've unmuted. You have three minutes, ma'am.
MS. KANE: Thank you very much, but I have no further
comments or questions.
MR. MILLER: Thank you, ma'am.
All right. Let me take a breath here and let my Zoom guy
catch up.
October 10, 2023
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Suzanne Ring will be followed by Ted Downie.
Suzanne, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if
you'll do that at this time. I see you have. You have three
minutes, Suzanne.
MS. RING: My name is Suzanne Ring. I live at Pelican
Isle.
Most of the items that I would have addressed have been
already spoken for, but I do have a concern for those people who
have had some potential flooding issues, that's Arbor Trace, and
also for Falling Waters and Tarpon Cove. Hopefully those will
be addressed. I think if the commissioners are not sure about
what to do, that we put a -- postpone the decision for a couple of
meetings and -- until we can have more discussion. Concerned
that if we did accept the -- what was -- what Chris Hall has told
us about the use of the Tract 10, we would need to know what
Collier County would do with that and what issues might be
involved with that. And that's pretty much all that I have to say
about this.
I did originally indicate that opening that settlement could
be an issue. If that settlement being opened is -- if those issues
could be resolved in terms of the potential lawsuit and other
settlements, then, perhaps, that could be addressed as well.
And I'm finished.
MR. MILLER: Thank you, ma'am.
Your next speaker on Zoom is Teresa Duclos, and she'll be
followed by William Knab.
Teresa, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll
do so. I see you have, ma'am. You have three minutes.
MS. DUCLOS: (Unintelligible) time, thank you.
MR. MILLER: All right. Thank you, ma'am.
Let's try William Knab. Mr. Knab, you're being prompted
October 10, 2023
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to unmute yourself, if you'll do so at this time. Well, actually,
just a moment, Mr. Knab. There, you are being prompted to
unmute yourself, if you'll do so at this time, sir.
A little rapid fire Zooming here.
There you are, Mr. Knab. You have three minutes.
MR. KNAB: There we are. Thank you very much.
Commissioners, my name is Bill Knab. I thank you for
your time. And I live a Wiggins Bay Villas, North Naples.
I'm part of the concerned citizens and communities of Wiggins
Bay. I want to commend Commissioner Hall for working with
the developer to come up with a workable solution to Tract 10.
I support that.
I would like to see Tract 10 eventually turned into a
preserve, ideally. If we do need it for parking, I would like to
make sure that there is community involvement in making that
development. No matter what we do to Tract 10, I think that
the concerned citizens in the area would like to have direct
input.
And I think we should vote for opening the agreement and
move forward. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time.
MR. MILLER: All right. I'm sorry. I can't remember
this one. Susan Kane. I can't remember if we called on you,
Susan. Susan, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if
you'll do so at this time. And I'm sorry if we've already called
on you. Susan, there you are. You have --
MS. KANE: You did already call on me. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Thank you, ma'am. I'm sorry.
So let's real quick, rapid fire -- stay with me, Zoom pilot. I
want to try the four people who did not respond at all real
quickly here. Ann Roccio.
Ann, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do
October 10, 2023
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that at this time. If you do not, we'll assume you do not want to
speak. There you are, Ann. Do you want to speak, ma'am?
MS. ROCCIO: I cede my time. Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
We're going to move on next and try Charles Wolfe.
Mr. Wolfe, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll
do that. And, again, if you do not unmute yourself on this
attempt, we will assume you do not want to speak.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. Let's try James Owens.
Mr. Owens, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if
you'll do so at this time.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: And, finally, Mark Moeggenberg. Mark,
you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do that at
this time.
There you are, Mark. You have three minutes, sir.
MR. MOEGGENBERG: I concede [sic] my time.
Thanks.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, that is all of the public speakers
we have on this item.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Did all the goombahs in the
audience get to speak? I just want to make sure.
The plan normally was to break at 1:00, but in these last
three minutes, I wanted to offer two things. First, you know, a
lot's been said, so I was going to defer to Commissioner Hall
and just see if -- you know, we're not going to sit here and vote
on anything, but if he had something that he wanted to say that
we could all chew on over lunch. And I also offer the same
thing to Mr. Yovanovich. Without getting over
extemporaneous, if there was something that you heard that you
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wanted to just touch on and then, you know, I'd like to break for
lunch at 1:00, come back here at 1:50 or 2:00 and continue.
But I'll defer to the commissioner first. Commissioner
Hall, is there anything, sir, that you would like to throw out
there or address?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah, I'd like to say a couple
of things to some of the speakers that had some questions.
In the Planning Commission on July the 6th of 2022, it was
clearly stated that they had 1.61 acres that they were going to
give us. In the NIM documentation, it was vague. They
showed the whole three acres, but then they showed the drawing
right below that where they were going to -- where they were
going to give us the 1.61. So I agree, it was fuzzy. Yeah, I
don't think it was misleading because of the 1 point -- because of
the Planning Commission, but it was an oversight, and it's well
noted. I just wanted to acknowledge that.
If we say no to this and the three acres remains with the
applicant, we don't get public input, period. I can't express that
enough. If the county gets it, then, yes, I think that we would
want to hear what you have to say before we do anything. I
know we need parking. We have -- this is all brand new to us
as of this morning, just like it is you. We don't know what
we're going to do with the three acres. We're listening. We
want -- we want parking, but we don't know what else is going
to happen there. We'll talk about that.
The transaction will happen at the same time. Nobody's
going to renege on a deal that -- you know, when the three acres
are coming our way, the three acres are going to come our way.
I do want to say that the golf course will be handled by land
development. That has nothing to do with this -- these agenda
items. The elevations, the flooding, I mean, we're listening, but
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it has nothing to do with us passing this today.
And, Mr. Yovanovich, you got some things you want to
address?
MR. YOVANOVICH: I know you're going to take a
break. So let me just throw a timing. There was a question
about when will you get the land, and our intention would be to
give you the land 60 days after the expiration of the typical
appeal period for today's proceedings if we're approved. So
now you have a time-certain, which some people were
concerned about, when would you actually get the land.
With that, you know, I'll just reserve time if you want to
come back. I don't really have a whole lot to say in rebuttal, but
I'd rather -- if you're going to take a break and come back, then
I'd rather do it then, but if you're going to move forward now,
then I can say the two things I want to say, and we'd be done
with it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, and
then I have a question.
Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think that we've got an
awful lot of people in the audience that are, obviously, here just
for this item. We've heard from the commissioner from the
district. I think -- if I'm not mistaken, I think the commissioner
from the district is ready to make a motion on this.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm not sure it's going to
be of value to break for lunch and come back an hour later. So
I'm just throwing that out there. I think we're probably
already --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'll move to approve with the
agreement of 20 extra feet of height and the three acres total.
October 10, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: There's still a few more
questions up here before we're ready to vote on a motion,
though.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Just on
the -- and I'm going to second his motion but ask my questions,
if I may, because I like -- I like the transaction.
Who pays for the extra portion of the land going from the
original parking lot -- the developer was going to pay for that
parking lot and commence construction by the end of -- or May
of '26.
MR. YOVANOVICH: We were going to finish by then.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Huh?
MR. YOVANOVICH: We were going to finish by then.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I think you said commence.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, forgive me if I
misspoke. We're getting the entire three acres. Are we able to
make a commitment on what we're going to do with that today?
MS. PATTERSON: So that was -- sir, that was part of our
question is --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So, nonetheless, with
this transaction, the extra 44 parking spaces are coming to be
completed by --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, no. You're getting the land,
and you'll do with it whatever you want to do.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. So we're
not -- they're not -- they're not doing the -- you're not going to do
the extra parking spaces?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, that was going to be my
question. Was there ever discussion -- I mean, you know, I
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wasn't privy, none of us were, to maybe what happened in the
NIM or anything in District 2. But was there ever a discussion
that -- like you said, we'd get the land, but in a partnership the
developer would help design the parking or pick up some
additional costs -- you know, I realize giving us the land, but
was there ever anything as to help share -- cost share, design,
permitting, construction, or anything on that land? It looks like
we're gravitating toward some sort of parking solution on that
land, but was that ever any part of the discussion? Or was it
land, do with it what you will, as you just said? Was that the
agreement?
MR. YOVANOVICH: The proposal we made today, yes,
when we were keeping a portion of the land, we were going to
design, permit, and construct the parking, but now that we're
giving you all of the land --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You're not going to do
that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You're backing away from it?
MR. YOVANOVICH: We're not going to do the design,
permitting, and construction of the county's parking.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Gotcha. I wanted that
clarification.
For the County Attorney -- you know, Frank's gone. He
left. But there was representations of concerns about reopening
the settlement agreement. Are there -- are there liabilities for us
to reopen the settlement agreement and reach this?
MR. KLATZKOW: No.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. I have no other
further questions.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Mr. Chair, if I might, we had a
speaker get put into the wrong column on Zoom. I do have one
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more. May we listen to her, please, sir?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, sir.
MR. MILLER: Coila Campbell. Ms. Campbell, you're
being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do that at this time.
Ms. Campbell? Coila, we're going to call you one last time.
Ms. Campbell? Coila Campbell. There you are. You have
three minutes.
MS. CAMPBELL: Hi. Yes, I'm here.
Commissioners, thank you so much. I think everyone has
pretty much said anything that I would be interested in adding
to, so I won't take up any more of your time and just repeat
what's all been said so far. Thank you so much.
MR. MILLER: My apologies, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I agree with
Commissioner Saunders. I mean, I thought maybe there would
be more that you-all -- that the applicant had to say or that
Commissioner Hall wanted to add. If there isn't, and in these
closing minutes, we already have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Hall, we have a second by Commissioner
McDaniel. I think we all understand the summary of what's in
that motion. Is there anything that you have to add, sir?
MR. YOVANOVICH: I just want to clarify. Their
statements they're making about us flooding our neighbor to the
north --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's got nothing to do
with this.
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- it's not accurate. So I'm not
going to get into the details of that. I just want to put on the
record that that's not an accurate statement.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall, sir, do
you have any final comments? This is a complicated one. I
October 10, 2023
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know you put a lot into it. I wanted to just give you closing
comments before we vote on the motion.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah. Would there be any
consideration to keep -- to add the parking and then get the other
acre and a half for the extra 20 foot?
MR. YOVANOVICH: You want us to build the parking?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Build the parking like we
were originally going to do, and then for the extra 20 foot in
exchange for the extra acre and a half, would there be any
consideration --
MR. YOVANOVICH: I don't want to take an hour. Can
I have five minutes?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sure.
MR. YOVANOVICH: You've kind of put me on the spot
here.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do you understand -- you
understand the question?
MR. YOVANOVICH: I understood the question.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We've all sort of asked the
same question in a little bit of a different format.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I understand. I understand the
ask.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. YOVANOVICH: But I do need five minutes with
my client.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I appreciate that.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, after their five
minutes, when he comes back, you also need to get your zoning
staff up here, please, so that they can explain to you what steps
October 10, 2023
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we would have to take to be able to utilize this for parking, just
to be sure that the Board's clear that it's not the same as just
parking as it is with a commercial building with attached
parking --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But that's depending on what
he --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, let's wait to see what --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: If Mr. Yovanovich comes
back and says it's a no-go, you get the land, the keys to the land,
and that's it, then all this is moot, or no?
MS. PATTERSON: No, that makes it more important for
them to come up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall, did you
want to -- go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah. I had a question for us.
If he comes back and he says, that's a deal, they'll put the
parking in, do we want the parking, or do we want just control
of all of the three acres?
MS. PATTERSON: We want the parking.
COMMISSIONER HALL: We want the parking and the
other half, okay. I'm just asking.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Let them know that the
public's done speaking.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. We're not -- we're
talking now amongst ourselves. Public comment has closed.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Would there be any
impediments to the county building a parking lot there?
MS. PATTERSON: It's going to require some zoning
action, and Mr. Bosi will explain that. But we just -- since
we're --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Who decides the zoning
October 10, 2023
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on that?
MS. PATTERSON: You do.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, we do.
MS. PATTERSON: But it's --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's a good question.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood, sir. It's just the
additional steps and time is not as clear as if there's a
commercial building with attached parking --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I was just --
MS. PATTERSON: -- versus parking. Okay. I know.
I have no sense of humor.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Everything's clear as mud
now, so...
MS. PATTERSON: That's right.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: And, Commissioners, if I may, if I
could put in context, there's over 24,000 registered vessels in
Collier County alone. You currently have a total of about 326
boat trailer parking spaces in your county parks countywide.
So getting this parcel and adding those parking would be a
tremendous benefit to the public and the residents.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. My position on the
acreage is -- and I'm glad to see there's been sort of, you know,
collegial discussion here. But the things that we are approving
as far as the higher stories and the 10 feet and all the things that
would obviously make that piece of property more valuable and
generate much more revenue, I think we're all saying in sort of
different -- in different stages, would there be -- would the
applicant, based on those advantages, that if we passed this
motion, what they would get, would the applicant have any
desire to help us cover the cost of improving that? Even though
that lot would be owned by the county, but as a -- you know, as
October 10, 2023
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a complement to the community, to help offset those costs of
any kind of improvement that was decided, with community
input, Commissioner Hall taking the lead and all that, but help
offset those costs. It sounds like maybe that was a discussion,
but it was -- maybe it was just sort of thrown around loosely.
What's your position, sir?
MR. YOVANOVICH: What -- we had a budget. You
know, when we knew what we were building based upon
discussions with the county, what it was going to take to design,
permit, and construct what we were proposing to do. That was
a million dollars. So we're happy to give you a -- we don't want
to get into giving the county a blank check to say this is what we
want on the property. We'll give you what we originally
planned out of -- our out-of-pocket budget was a million dollars,
and we're happy to give you that when you actually permit the
improvements. So you're getting what we would have spent.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So it would be full access to
the --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. YOVANOVICH: You get the property. You get the
property, and you got a million dollars when you actually pull
the --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Plus a million dollars.
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- permits.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Because what I want citizens
to realize is -- especially since Hurricane Ian -- I mean, I'll just
speak for, you know, my district. You know, we've got
Caxambas that has an awful lot of damage. So if we got the
keys to the property, we don't break ground tomorrow and start
building parking spots; however, improvements to that three
acres can happen a lot faster with the assistance of, you know,
October 10, 2023
Page 139
the applicant, working together with the county, rather than just
give us the keys to it, and we work it into our lineup. So that
was sort of, you know, my position. But, you know, you're --
MR. YOVANOVICH: We just -- I think we just --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Just did that.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, yeah, okay. We'll take
the million dollars.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So I'll change -- I'll change the
motion. I'll say I make the move to approve with the three
acres and the million dollars and the extra 20 feet.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'll second -- I'll
second his amendment, and then we have to have staff give us a
report on what?
MR. YOVANOVICH: I just want to make sure I clarify
what you just motioned to make it clearer, please.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Go ahead, sir.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Actually to help. I want to make
sure we're clear that it's 20 feet on both the zoned and actual
height, and we had offered a time frame by which we would
convey the property, which was 60 days after the appeal period,
and we would give you the million dollars when you get your
permit. I just want to make sure that's all part of the motion
instead of -- because I didn't hear the time frame and all that, I
just want to make sure it was clear.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We didn't put it in.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Can we hear from county
staff?
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director.
And a unique aspect of this 3-acre parcel, it's in Wiggins
Bay PUD, and that was approved in 1982. And there was a
October 10, 2023
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quirk to the permitted uses within that C-2 zoning district. The
C-2 zoning district has just general commercial. You can make
an interpretation that a parking lot would fall within that general
commercial, but it doesn't have a parking lot listed specifically
as a use.
But it also does have a provision that it allows the zoning
director to make a determination -- a comparable-use
determination of similar uses within that zoning district.
So to develop a parking lot at that -- I would have to make
a determination that a parking lot falls within the commercial
zoning that is allowed by the C-2 zoning district which, all
things by itself, that's a determination I would gravitate to. But
I just wanted to let you know that there is a little quirkiness to
that C-2 zoning, and that was in place in 1982. But it does give
us -- it does give us the avenue to make that determination that a
parking lot qualifies as a commercial use and that it could be
developed.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's a good quirk. As
quirks go, that's a good one.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Word of the day.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Anything else from
county? Mr. Yovanovich? Anybody?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So I think we have
a -- we have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Hall, a
motion by Commissioner -- or a second by Commissioner
McDaniel, and I think we know all the details of the nuances of
the land, the million dollars, and all the changes, unless
anybody's got any questions.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All in favor?
October 10, 2023
Page 141
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good comments.
When are we coming back?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What do you think?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You say. Hour?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Come back at 2:15?
Yeah, we'll return at 2:15.
(A luncheon recess was had from 1:14 p.m. to 2:15 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. County Manager, let's
roll into 9B and C.
Item #9B
RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE AN ORDINANCE TO
REZONE 5.53± ACRES OF PROPERTY FROM THE ESTATES
(E) ZONING DISTRICT TO A COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT (CPUD) ZONING DISTRICT FOR A PROJECT
TO BE KNOWN AS 4050 13TH AVENUE COMMERCIAL
PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT TO ALLOW
DEVELOPMENT OF UP TO 171,500 SQUARE FEET OF GROSS
FLOOR AREA OF SELF-STORAGE AND MINI-WAREHOUSE
(SIC 4225). THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED SOUTHWEST OF
October 10, 2023
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THE INTERSECTION OF 13TH AVENUE SW AND COLLIER
BOULEVARD, NORTH OF GREEN BOULEVARD IN SECTION
15, TOWNSHIP 49 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA. [PL20210003321] (THIS ITEM IS A
COMPANION OF ITEM #9C) (DISTRICT 3) - MOTION TO
CONTINUE TO DECEMBER 12, 2023, BY COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO –
CONTINUED
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. 9B will require ex parte
disclosure. This is a recommendation to approve an ordinance
to rezone 5.53 plus/minus acres of property from the Estates
zoning district to a Commercial Planned Unit Development
zoning district for a project to be known as 4050 13th Avenue
Commercial Planned Unit Development to allow development
of up to 171,500 square feet of gross floor area of self-storage
and mini warehouse. The property is located southwest of the
intersection of 13th Avenue Southwest and Collier Boulevard,
north of Green Boulevard in Section 15, Township 49 South,
Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida.
Item #9C
RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE AN ORDINANCE
AMENDING THE COLLIER COUNTY GROWTH
MANAGEMENT PLAN TO CHANGE THE DESIGNATION OF
PROPERTY FROM ESTATES-MIXED USE DISTRICT,
RESIDENTIAL ESTATES SUBDISTRICT TO THE ESTATES-
COMMERCIAL DISTRICT, 13TH AVE SW COMMERCIAL
INFILL SUBDISTRICT WITHIN URBAN GOLDEN GATE
ESTATES SUB-ELEMENT OF THE GOLDEN GATE AREA
October 10, 2023
Page 143
MASTER PLAN ELEMENT TO ALLOW UP TO 171,500
SQUARE FEET OF GROSS FLOOR AREA OF SELF-STORAGE
AND MINI-WAREHOUSING (SIC 4225 THE SUBJECT
PROPERTY CONSISTING OF 5.53± ACRES IS LOCATED
SOUTHWEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF 13TH AVENUE SW
AND COLLIER BOULEVARD, NORTH OF GREEN
BOULEVARD IN SECTION 15, TOWNSHIP 49 SOUTH, RANGE
26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. [PL20220000289]
(THIS ITEM IS A COMPANION OF ITEM #9B) (DISTRICT 3)
MOTION TO CONTINUE TO DECEMBER 12, 2023, BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – CONTINUED 5/0
This is a companion to Item 9C, which is a
recommendation to approve an ordinance amending the Collier
County Growth Management Plan to change the designation of
property from Estates Mixed Use District, Residential Estates
Subdistrict, to the Estates Commercial District, 13th Avenue
Southwest Commercial Landfill Subdistrict within Urban
Golden Gate Estates Sub-Element of the Golden Gate Area
Master Plan Element to allow up to 171,500 square feet of gross
floor area of self-storage and mini warehousing. The subject
property is consisting of 5.53 plus/minus acres and is located
southwest of the intersection of 13th Avenue Southwest and
Collier Boulevard, north of Green Boulevard in Section 15,
Township 49 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida.
We need to have everyone who's going to be participating
stand up and be sworn in by the court reporter, please.
MR. MILLER: If you're going to speak --
THE COURT REPORTER: If you're going to speak, you
need to be sworn in.
October 10, 2023
Page 144
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: If you're going to speak on
this issue, we need you to stand up and be sworn in, please.
Thank you.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth?
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the
affirmative.)
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, ex parte.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner
Kowal, sir, what do you have on 9B and C?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I have meetings and emails.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner
Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes. I have emails and
phone calls as well as some meetings.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Meetings and emails.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Same.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And I have meetings
and emails. Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you. We'll start with
Mr. Davies.
MR. DAVIES: Thank you, Madam County Manager, and
thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, Commissioners.
Noel Davies with the law firm of Davies Duke on behalf of
the applicant for this matter, Shamrock Builders, Inc. I have
with me today Greg O'Herren, our client representative; Patrick
Vanasse is our professional planner; James Banks is our
October 10, 2023
Page 145
transportation engineer; Laurie Swanson is our civil engineer;
Parke Lewis is our ecologist; and Russ Weyer is our economist.
Our pending applications include a site-specific Growth
Management Plan amendment to create a new subdistrict as well
as a corresponding rezone to PUD application to allow the
self-storage use only.
The subject property is located at 4050 13th Avenue
Southwest. Our total acreage is approximately five-and-a-half
acres, and we are currently zoned Estates.
The property is immediately adjacent to two Florida Power
& Light power plants. Here are some visuals of what sits
immediately next door to the site.
I'd like to walk you through, Commissioners, how this
project has evolved from initial submittal to today and the
significant number of concessions and compromises that my
client has made to accommodate the neighboring residents. My
client and our team has been very involved in engaging with the
neighbors for many months now. We've had two separate
neighborhood information meetings, one via Zoom and one in
person. In addition to that, we've had three separate meetings
with the neighbors as well as multiple email communications.
We have worked through a number of changes with your county
staff in response to requests from the neighbors and have kept
neighbors updated throughout the process.
So here's where we are today. First and foremost, there
will be no access on 13th Avenue Southwest. This was a major
concession from the developer and was the primary concern of
the neighbors at the first set of neighborhood meetings. Our
original submittal did include access on 13th, but it has been
very important to my client to work with the community.
We've worked with staff, and we've agreed to move all access to
October 10, 2023
Page 146
951 only. This is at my client's significant additional cost and
will include a left turn in from 951 northbound.
Again, we've worked very hard with county staff on this to
obtain this as the only access point. County staff is in
agreement. And we've redesigned our site. You'll see the
three different master plans to ensure the no access on 13th at
the request of the neighbors.
You'll see in yellow on this slide the left turn-in from 951
northbound. This is at the southeast corner of the site, and this
will be, like I said, the only access point.
In addition, there will be a school bus stop with parking for
parents to wait in their cars that will be constructed on my
client's property at my client's sole cost. We heard safety
concerns from the neighbors that exist today with respect to the
school bus stop here at the intersection of 951 and 13th. Again,
safety is very important to the team and to my client. And even
though this is not my client's responsibility and even though the
access has been moved -- there will be no traffic on 13th as a
result of this development -- nonetheless, as an additional
gesture of good faith to the neighborhood, we will be
constructing this school bus stop and waiting area on our
property so that there will be a safe place for children and their
parents to wait for the school bus.
This will be part of our SDP application, the school bus
stop, but we are legally obligating ourselves today to do this as a
developer zoning commitment.
We've also reduced the square footage of the project by
3,500 square feet. We have eliminated this building that you
see on the slide. This was an office building that was closest to
13th. That is no longer, and that creates even more separation
from the project facilities and 13th.
October 10, 2023
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So to return to this slide, the separation from 13th is now at
a 148-foot setback. This is above and beyond what's required
by county code and shifts all the activity on the site as far
as -- excuse me -- as far south as possible. And in addition to
the separation, we are providing enhanced buffering and
landscaping and have agreed now to legally incorporate those
enhanced plantings which, again, is really an SDP requirement,
but we want to commit to that today so that the neighbors have
full assurances on the quality and extent of the landscaping, all
of which exceed your county requirements.
In addition to these significant changes, the location of the
site is very unique, and I mentioned this, in that it is sandwiched
between two FPL stations. Because of that, the site is not
suitable for any residential use, and one of the least intense
commercial uses, as you know, is self-storage. This will have
very minimal impacts on the surrounding area, all of which have
been reduced even further by the concessions I just outlined.
So to sum up, we are consistent with your Growth
Management Plan and Land Development Code. We have
made these changes to work with our neighbors. Your staff has
reviewed the petitions; they are recommending approval. And
we respectfully request your vote of approval today.
With that, the team and I are happy to answer your
questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'm sure we have
plenty of public comment. Mr. Miller, how many?
MR. MILLER: We have three speakers on Zoom and 30
here in the room. The 30 here in the room are divided up into
five groups. They've ceded time, so it's --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Before you go to public
comment, Commissioner Saunders, I just yield to you in case
October 10, 2023
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you wanted to make any opening statements, since this is your
district.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. Well, I think I
want to hear from the public. I went out to the site and kind of
walked the site, and I'm not totally convinced that residential use
is inappropriate there, but that's something -- I want to hear from
the public first, and then I'll reserve some comments later.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Sir, perfect.
Mr. Miller, and mix up the groups, you know --
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. We're going to start with
Richard LaGarde, who has been ceded time from eight
additional folks. I'm going to call all of their names here.
Give me just one second. So it's Richard. And Ken Watts.
Please raise your hand when I call your name.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Tom Moss?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Lisa Moss?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
Susan Wallace?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
William Wallace?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
Mary LaGarde?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
John Dryden?
(Raises hand.)
October 10, 2023
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MR. MILLER: Thank you.
And Ella Dryden.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: So Mr. LaGarde will have 27 minutes.
After he is done, we'll go on Zoom to Mike Ryan.
Mr. LaGarde.
MR. LaGARDE: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I am
here at the request of some of the -- a number of the landowners
and homeowners on 13th Avenue. My hope is to be able to
summarize their concerns for you so that we don't have a
haphazard presentation.
I want to cover the reasons I'm here: The full disclosures;
the dilemma created for you by Shamrock, Shamrock's orphan
property claim, I want to examine that for a few minutes;
Shamrock's need claim, I want to examine that, test it; the size
problem of this project; the legitimate fears of the area residents;
possible alternative development models that are more
reasonable than the ones being proposed; and some issues of
fundamental fairness.
First three reasons I'm here: I have two grandchildren who
live on 13th Avenue Southwest. As a grandfather, I'm
concerned about their safety and their quality of life, and so I
have a concern there. Also, I'm a landowner. I'm a
homeowner on 7th Avenue Southwest, so I'm concerned about
the slippery slope situation where we see commercial entities
coming in and trying to build in residential areas in District 4.
I'm concerned about that for my own self. I know a lot of
people on 7th Avenue Southwest are concerned about this
particular project. They see it as a harbinger of things to come.
And I know people on 5th Avenue Southwest have the same
concerns; they've expressed it to me. And you go on down
October 10, 2023
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from 5th all the way up towards Immokalee, there are
homeowners there who are also concerned about this. So that's
part of the reason I'm here.
Also, I lived for 35 years in Houston. A travel website
labeled Houston the ugliest city in America, and it's because
they don't have zoning. When I bought my first home in
Houston as a young lawyer, several months after I bought my
home, a developer built a bowling alley right next door to my
house. And every night at 2 in the morning, the drunks would
come rolling out. One of them had a car horn that played the
Yellow Rose of Texas, and he would hit his horn every night at
2 in the morning.
So when I moved here to Collier County, I thought, my
God, here's a county that believes in planning, they believe in
zoning, they believe in organized development with commercial
zones, industrial zones separated from residential zones, and I
thought, this county really has its act together. So that's one of
the reasons I'm here. I don't want to see Collier County turn
into another Houston.
Now, first, the dilemma created for you by Shamrock,
they're asking you to rezone this residential property when their
own application shows that there were 10 alternative sites where
they could build it, all of which were either commercial,
industrial, or agricultural, but they didn't choose any of those 10
sites to bring to you. Instead, they bring you a residential site,
presumably because the cost of residential property's cheaper
than the cost of commercial or industrial property.
They're asking you to ignore your own master plan, and
we'll go into that in a few minutes. And they're asking you to
ignore the legitimate fears of neighborhood residents, and I'll go
into that in a minute.
October 10, 2023
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First of all, in terms of the alternative properties, they've
showed 10 different properties. And as you can see, most of
them are already zoned commercial, already zoned industrial,
and two are zoned agricultural. And, again, none of those was
chosen by Shamrock. Shamrock, instead, chose a residential
property.
Next we go to the Golden Gate area master plan. This is
your plan as commissioners for Golden Gate area. Goal 1 was
to ensure the health, safety, and welfare and quality of life of
local residents. I don't think that the largest warehouse in
Collier County right on the street where these people live is
going to enhance the quality of their life.
Goal No. 2 is to preserve the rural character. Again, we're
not preserving the rural character of this area by putting in a
massive warehouse.
And the third goal was to limit commercial and conditional
uses to preserve the area's rural character. Again, we're not
preserving the rural character of the area when we put in such a
large warehouse.
Now, Shamrock has said -- and this is a direct
quote -- property has been rendered inadequate for residential
housing by the two surrounding electrical substations. I want to
ask you, as commissioners, where's the proof? What proof
have they presented to you that residential uses are inadequate
here, that you can't build a home, you can't develop this for
residential use?
Everyone seems to assume that. Yes, there's a substation
in the back. There's a substation off to the south. Where's the
proof that no one would build a home there, no one would want
to buy a home? I haven't seen any proof. Everyone just makes
that assumption without looking at the evidence. So, again,
October 10, 2023
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should you just accept that at face value, or should you require
some proof from the developer that that's, in fact, true?
Now, I want to suggest to you that there has been no
good-faith effort to market this as a residential property. The
property was purchased in, actually, it was November of 2021, a
mistake there. It was purchased by an LLC in November of
2021. They didn't list this on the MLS. If you've got a piece
of property and you want to try to develop it as residential, you
put it on MLS. It was never put there. Instead, it was put on
LoopNet, which is a commercial website, and it was described
there as a prime rezone candidate.
So we have a brand-new landowner, an LLC, that has no
intention of trying to develop this for residential purposes. Its
sole intent is to try to rezone this as commercial. So, again,
when you're told the main reason you need to go along with this
is because it is unfit for residential use, no evidence of that and
no attempt, no good-faith effort by the landowner to try to
develop this as a residential property.
And the other thing is, if you look at FP&L substations all
around Collier County, they're surrounded in some cases by
multimillion-dollar homes. So the thought that just because
there's a substation there, no one's going to want to live next
door, just isn't borne out by the facts.
Here's their purchase of the property. They bought a
2.77-acre plot, and right next door, a 2.77-acre plot. Those two
plots make up this property that's the subject of the rezoning.
Here's a house that was opposite the -- is on the property,
and it was occupied through 2017 by Mr. Parker who owned
Parker Tree Service. He was renting the house. And in 2018,
FP&L obtained or acquired that tract, developed its new
substation, and then ceded the tract in front back to the trust that
October 10, 2023
Page 153
owned it, and it was subsequently bought by the current
landowner, the LLC.
But, you know, the fact that you've got a model home here,
no one has tried to rent it out, no one's tried to sell it since the
current property owners purchased it, so -- but we're just
supposed to assume that no one will want to live there.
Now, here is the MLS listings for that house. It hasn't
been listed on MLS since 2010. So, again, no one has tested
the market.
Here's the LoopNet listing, and it says it's a prime rezone
candidate. Again, the landowners went directly into
commercial ventures and didn't even try to develop it as
residential, which is what it's supposed to be.
Now, I wanted to show you for a second, here you have the
subject property, and just below you see a home that sold for
1.7 million in March of last year, and it's right next to the FP&L
facility. Again, if this is unfit for use as residential property,
why is someone buying a $1.7 million home right next door to
FP&L?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Can you go back for one
second, sir?
MR. LaGARDE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I got it. I was
looking -- trying to read what was in one of the boxes. Got it.
MR. LaGARDE: Oh, sure, yeah. It's a little bit small.
Here we have another FP&L station in Grey Oaks, and
you've got a $3.9 million home there, $5.4 million home there,
$7.8 million home there, which backs onto their substation and
high power lines. Again, why are we assuming that this is not
fit for residential use if it's good enough for people in Grey Oaks
with $7 million homes?
October 10, 2023
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Here is Foxfire Country Club. Again, FP&L substation
there, and it's surrounded here in the back by homes in the
$800,000 range, and one just across the street sold for 475,000
this year.
Here's another FP&L substation in Willoughby Acres.
Again, you got $700,000 homes backing onto the substation.
No problem for them.
And then we have Solana Road FP&L substation, and
we've got $500,000 homes, $700,000 homes backing up to it.
No problem for them.
And here's a brand-new subdivision next to the Florida
Sports Park substation; $900,000 homes going up right back
behind it. So, again, the evidence is just not there that this
property is unfit for residential use.
Let's talk about the need claim that Shamrock had set forth.
They said there's a need/demand for self-storage in this area.
Well, this area being Golden Gate Estates, where's the need for
the residents of Golden Gate Estates? Most of us have
two-and-a-half or five-acre lots with storage buildings in back of
our homes. We don't need this self-storage. So who is the
self-storage for? Who are they building it for? Not for us as
neighbors.
So the question is, why are you putting it here, and who is
it you're really aiming at as your target audience?
There's -- in the prior year or two, there are 822,000 square
feet currently permitted, being built, or being applied for in
Collier County. That's a lot of self-storage space. And, more
importantly, every CubeSmart in Collier County is offering
discounts and free rent. Now that, to me, is a sign of
oversupply. You don't offer free rent and discounts if
there's -- if there's no space to be had.
October 10, 2023
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So I do question the assumption that there's a need for
storage space, and here's the list of all the storage units that are
either being developed, being built, or have recently been built
in Collier County.
Now, you look at national statistics. If you look on the left
up here, the self-storage -- I may have to have my glasses on for
this one. The self-storage occupancy is on its way down. It
peaked earlier in 2022 at the end of COVID, and now it's
trending downwards.
On the right-hand side, you see that the cost to rent
self-storage is also trending down, which raises questions as to
whether or not there's a big future for self-storage in terms of
nationwide. And, again, these are nationwide figures. I
understand Collier County's different. We have a lot of folks
retiring down here. But, again, the ones who retire to Golden
Gate Estates, which is the subject for this property, by and large,
we don't need self-storage units. Maybe apartment dwellers do,
but they're not here. That's not the folks in our area. Not the
folks on 13th Street, for sure.
And if you look at the bottom, these are all of the
CubeSmart self-storages that are offering a month's free rent and
15 percent off on the normal price. Again, some sign -- some
market sign that there is not a shortage of units here. A lot of
this is -- you know, you can -- with market studies, you can
make them appear to be whatever you want them to appear, but
this is -- the fact that there are people -- are CubeSmarts in town
that are offering free rent and 15 percent discounts is some
suggestion that there are vacancies. I called the CubeSmart on
Vanderbilt Way this morning and asked them if they had
vacancies, and they did, and they offered me a half month's free
rent and 15 percent off.
October 10, 2023
Page 156
The size problem. This warehouse is massive. The
average size of a CubeSmart in Collier County is 68,000 square
feet. They want to build 171,000 square feet. Think about
that. The average size of all of the self-storage warehouses in
Collier County is 65,000 square feet. Again, they want to build
one that's 171,000 feet on a residential lot.
Now, here are the list of all the different storage units in
Collier County. And you can see we have all the CubeSmarts
added up, all of the Extra Space Storage, all of the Public
Storage, all of the Lockup storage, and then the boutique
storages, and they all add up to 65,000 as the average.
I don't see any of them on there that are 171,000 feet. So
based upon this list, this is going to be the largest storage unit in
all of Collier County. Again, on a residential property?
So let's look at what the size is that they're proposing. It's
bigger than the Amazon distribution center, it's bigger than
Naples Community Hospital, it's bigger than the Waterside
Shops in Naples, and it's almost as big as the SuperTarget in
North Naples. That's a lot of square footage to put on a
five-acre lot.
Now, let's talk about the legitimate fear of area residents as
they've expressed it to me and as I have fear. The safety of
their children. Yes, the developer has offered to -- or has said
that they're going to put the entrance on Collier Boulevard, and I
think anyone looking at this knows that you can't have
18-wheelers, box trucks turning onto 13th Avenue where
schoolchildren are waiting for their school buses, where they're
getting on and off their school buses. That's just too dangerous.
None of us wants to see a tragedy happen.
So, yes, locating the entrance to Collier, it's a must. I don't
think anyone would want to see trucks coming in and out of 13th
October 10, 2023
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Avenue Southwest.
My concern -- and I've raised this before -- is if you do
permit this development, that there may be a temptation to use
the entrance on 13th for construction. And we're talking about
a year, year and a half, however long it takes to build, of
18-wheelers delivering steel beams, 38-foot concrete wall slabs,
turning onto 13th Avenue Southwest where all these school kids
are.
So at the very least, if you decide to allow them to do
anything, I think there has to be a provision which bars them
from using 13th Street Southwest during the construction phase
for the safety of the children.
Let's talk about crime. There is -- my son-in-law, who is a
Houston police officer, will tell you his experience with crime in
self-storage units, but let's look at just the last 90 days. They
found 500,000 from a bank heist in one. They found a body in
California in a storage unit; they found a body of a woman in a
self-storage unit there. They found a couple living in a
CubeSmart. They found a meth lab in a CubeSmart. Their
fear is not unfounded. There's no doubt that self-storage units
do attract crime.
More importantly, they're not talking about building here
one of these internal building type self-storage units. Yes, that's
part of the project. They're talking about building a lot of these
one-story-tall garages where you just drive up, pull up the
garage door, and back in whatever you want to back in. That's
very unlike the other self-storage units around us. And the
problem with that is, it does breed crime. There's no regulation
of what you can bring in, what you can put in that self-storage
unit.
Let me tell you -- show you some of the fire problems that
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has. Here's -- recently in San Jose, someone was storing
38,000 pounds of fireworks which exploded and caused a major
fire. Now, think about that. We're building this right up
against two FP&L substations? I mean, is it smart to have this
kind of a fire hazard next to an FPL substation? I don't think it
is.
And the concern about -- well, let's look at the other fires.
This is just in the last two weeks. These are fires around the
country at self-storage units.
So is the concern by the residents of fire hazards
legitimate? I'll give you a little story that I heard from Ms. Pat
and Mr. Joe who live at the end of the street. In 2009, a small
fire broke out near the front of the street, 13th, and embers
caused fires towards the back end where their home was.
Because most of the firefighters were fighting a fire out in the
Everglades, another fire company had to come in from outside
the county to help. There are no fire hydrants on that street.
There's no exit on that street except 13th and Collier. They're
trapped back there if there's a major fire.
And they had to stand there and watch as their two-car
garage and cabana in the backyard burned because there wasn't
enough water to put out those fires and also protect their home.
So if they're concerned about fire, they've got a legitimate reason
for that.
So, again, we're putting a fire hazard -- a major fire hazard,
especially one in which they're using these first-floor drive-up
garages, which are hard to regulate, it's hard to determine what's
in there; chemicals, lawnmowers with gasoline in them, lithium
ion batteries. Whatever goes into there, you can't regulate it the
same way you can if it's a stand-alone building like the one on
Vanderbilt Way.
October 10, 2023
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Now, Shamrock has said we're going to plant trees. We're
going to have all this. Here's one in Ann Arbor where
Shamrock had this proposed drawing of what they were going to
do. Here's what it actually looks like. Here's one in Cleveland,
Ohio. This is what Shamrock said it was going to look like in
their drawings. Here's what it actually looks like.
And they develop these stand-alone one-story garage units,
and you can see there's actually a drive-through for 18-wheelers.
I don't know for a fact whether their project is going to have one
of these drive-throughs for 18-wheelers, but, if so, it's a concern
for us.
Now, let's talk about alternative development models.
Let's assume for sake of argument that no one would want to
buy that model home that was resided in up till 2018. Let's
assume that it has to be torn down and something new built.
You could have low-density residential on the north half of the
property, the one -- the part of the property closest to 13th,
which would at least preserve the rural character of that street,
and you could build something on the south end that's
reasonable and appropriate that is also closest to the F&PL site
to the south and closest to the FP&L site to the west. Let me
give you some examples.
If I could make this work. There we go.
For instance, you could build a preserve here against 13th
Street Southwest, a retention pond there, and then build -- divide
it up into one, two, three, four -- you could put five homes in
there. That's one alternative.
Here's another alternative. You could put in three homes
here with a preserve so that the residential street has residents on
it, not commercial businesses, and on the south part of the
property, you could put in, like, say, a Carl's Wine Storage
October 10, 2023
Page 160
self-storage. There's one of them right now on Tamiami Trail
that's 98,000 square feet. It would fit into that part of the
property, that 2.7 acres that makes up the bottom part of the
property.
You could also, as an alternative, again put in residential
closest to 13th, which is the residential street, and you could put
in a CubeSmart just like the one at Vanderbilt Way. Vanderbilt
Way has a beautiful storage unit there. It's 90,000 square feet,
but it's in a stand-alone building. It doesn't have all of those
one-story drive-up garages like they're proposing. You could,
literally, put one on the 2.7 acres here. It's on 2.5 on
Vanderbilt. You could put a 2.7-acre one here and have a
90,000-square-foot self-storage building that's not right up
against 13th Avenue where the residents are concerned, and you
still have fire hazards but less so, I think, because you're not
going to have people tempted to store cars or lawnmowers or
things like that with gasoline in them if it's a controlled building
that you have to access by freight elevator.
So, anyway, I wanted to point out that it's not an
all-or-nothing proposition here. There are ways to develop this
property where it's residential closest to 13th Avenue so that
when you turn onto 13th, the residents have residences, not a
commercial building, but still make use of part of the property
for commercial if that's your inclination.
And, you know, they're making it work on Vanderbilt Way
with a 90,000-square-foot unit. Why can't they do it here?
Why do they need 171,000 feet [sic]?
So I want to talk about fundamental fairness now. The
residents of 13th Avenue have sacrificed for this county. This
substation was built right on their street. And so, yes, they've
made a sacrifice. It's for the greater good of the county. To a
October 10, 2023
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certain extent, it helps them, too, because if there's a hurricane,
they're one of the first ones to get electricity. So that's a benefit
to them, benefit to the county.
But now are we going to go back and ask them to sacrifice
again and have the largest warehouse in all of Collier County
built on their street? That's just not fair.
Now, also, let's talk about fundamental fairness to the
competitors. Their competitors who built their self-storage
units on commercial properties or on industrial properties, they
paid a premium for those properties, and now they're asking
you, as government, to give them the opportunity to get a leg up
on their competition by buying cheap residential property.
I've heard about landowner rights. Landowner rights are a
valid concern, and they're used as a shield, not as a sword.
They're a shield against overreaching government restrictions on
your property. But here it's being used as a sword. Hey, I
bought this property. It's residential property. I know it's
residential property, but I'm buying it specifically to turn it into
commercial property, and you should recognize my rights as a
landowner to do that. I don't think it works that way.
We don't have someone here who has tried to develop it as
residential property, was unsuccessful, and came back to you
and said, we've got no alternative. We have someone who
never even tried to develop it as residential.
And so I'm just asking, on behalf of the folks on 13th
Avenue, on behalf of my grandchildren, that you reject the
proposal as it's submitted.
Thank you very much for your time.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, your --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, can I ask you a question?
MR. LaGARDE: Yes, sir.
October 10, 2023
Page 162
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Did you speak before the
Planning Commission?
MR. LaGARDE: I did not. I was asked after the
Planning Commission to step in for fear that there would be so
many different voices that we couldn't make a coherent
presentation to you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I was just curious. I mean,
regardless of how we vote --
MR. LaGARDE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- very informative, you
know, presentation.
MR. LaGARDE: Appreciate that.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, your next speaker is going to
be on Zoom, Mike Ryan, and then he will be followed here in
the room by Gloria Marques.
Mr. Ryan, you should be getting prompted to unmute
yourself, if you'll do so at this time. Mr. Ryan? Mike Ryan?
All right. Zoom people, let's make a swift one here. Let's
try Yesenia Sanchez. Yesenia Sanchez, you're being prompted
to unmute yourself, if you'll do so at this time.
MS. SANCHEZ: Hi. I was just wanting -- good
afternoon, Commissioners. I was just wanting to be present for
today. I did not want to speak.
MR. MILLER: All right, then. And that concludes all of
our people online for this item, so we'll go back here in the room
to Gloria Marques, and she will be followed by Shirley, is it,
Lytwyn?
MS. LYTWYN: Lytwyn.
MR. MILLER: Lytwyn. All right. Let me get --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: How many do we have,
Mr. Miller, in the room?
October 10, 2023
Page 163
MR. MILLER: Hold on one second, Mr. Chair. I need to
get this young lady's PowerPoint ready for her.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Eighteen or 20?
MR. MILLER: We have -- it's three more groups here in
the room.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You know, just a reminder, if
you feel like what you were about to say has just been said, then
you can just wave your hand and yield your time or, you know,
you're free to come to the podium. Ma'am.
MS. MARQUES: Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Oh, I'm sorry. Hold on. Before she
begins, I need to call off the people that have ceded time to her.
Cynthia Gray?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
Bruce Gray?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Do I have the name right? Oh, Bruce
Golly. I'm sorry.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Oh, back there. Thank you.
Claudia Giana.
MS. MARQUES: Gone.
MR. MILLER: Gone. Oh, she's not here?
MS. MARQUES: She's gone.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Cynthia Gray?
MS. MARQUES: Yeah.
MS. GRAY: You already --
MR. MILLER: Oh, we already called you. Okay. We
have some duplicates.
And Elaine Borg.
October 10, 2023
Page 164
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Okay. So that's actually a total of four, so
you'll have 12 minutes, Gloria.
MS. MARQUES: Okay, I'm going to try to go fast.
MR. MILLER: Please don't go too awfully fast. She has
to take down every word you say.
MS. MARQUES: Okay. Just to tell you that the project
that they are presenting is against the Goal No. 1 to the
compatibility -- compatible land of uses. They (unintelligible)
to provide basic service, taking care of the natural resources, and
health and safety for the local residents. I'm going to be fast.
This is the fire and storage facilities increasing in
approximately four fires per day, and all of them occur most of
the time between 6 p.m. and 6 a.m. in the morning.
(A video was played as follows:)
Learning that the huge fire that destroyed a storage
facility in Mesa was likely caused by humans.
But one of the renters says she's pretty sure people
started this fire. Whether by accident or not, we don't
know. Today it appears Mesa Fire agrees.
Up in fire and smoke, on December (unintelligible) at
Public Storage in Mesa. Medical indicates to her that the
blaze was human caused, something she has suspected all
along, she says, because she believed that people were
living in the units.
And St. Pete fire rescue crews are on the scene.
They're currently working a two-alarm fire at a storage
building. You can see the roof burned right there with
smoke billowing out. This is 22nd Avenue North, 25th
Street North. This is from Skyling (phonetic). Again,
this is at a storage facility, and it's unclear at this point what
October 10, 2023
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sparked this fire.
Early morning fire destroys part of a Frankfort Avenue
business.
Crews were on the scene today for hours at A1
Self-storage in Clifton. The call came in about 3:45 this
morning. A whole row of units was destroyed -- all
morning long. A fire at a Miami Garden storage facility is
finally out after firefighters spent hours trying to put out
that blaze.
Julie Bag has been on the scene since --
Let me show you part of what made it so difficult for
firefighters to fight this fire. Look at the series of holes in
the cement wall. That's where crews had to pound through
there, reaching the source of the fire, and you can see
what's just beyond the wall, all of that content, so much of
it, making it even harder for firefighters to put those flames
out.
Flames popping through the roof of a storage facility
just off the Palmetto Expressway and Northwest 37th
Avenue right behind Sophia Henderson's house.
Well, it was frightening because it could have jumped
to my house, you know, the backyard.
Firefighters say the flames broke out just before
5:40 a.m. -- the flames, which spread to multiple storage
units.
Firefighters arrived to find smoke and other
indications of fire coming from one of the units, began the
fire attack, which proved to be difficult based on the layout
in the particular section of the storage facility as well as the
amount of stuff contained within these storage units.
Now, the last -- a huge fire broke out at a storage, and
October 10, 2023
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it was what may have been burning --
Firefighters surrounded the Public Storage building on
Blossom Hill Road at Codle (phonetic), sprang water from
all sides and over on the top but the --
So they set up defensive -- has no answers.
We have no idea what's in storage units, so the crews
are conducting defensive operations and --
Rockford firefighters are finishing up at the scene of a
fire, a storage facility on Rockford's northwest side, and
several fire departments were called to the scene, and there
was concern about this, inflammable oils and other
chemicals found in the storage unit. (Unintelligible.)
Well, right now we're getting a better look at the
damage and Rook E. Charlotte storage facility that caught
fire this morning. We've been bringing you those life
updates all morning at the facility on University City
Boulevard. Crews from several fire stations were called in
to get it under control.
All this breaking news out of Bessemer this morning.
What you're looking at here, a fire in storage unit complex
in Bessemer. This is the Metro Mini Storage located on
18th Street North. We understand from a manager there
on the scene saying that 42 units have been affected by this.
Now, the fire chief says the first call when this fire came in
just before 10:00 this morning but it --
Brisley (phonetic) adding to a missing person case
after the body of a woman is found inside a storage unit.
A body has been found --
(The video concluded.)
MS. MARQUES: Why I am putting those examples here
is because all of those storage units at 70,000 square feet. So
October 10, 2023
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we are going to be in the double of risk of those people.
This is inconsistent with the predominant land of uses.
This is in 2019. This is 2020. We have -- we didn't have the
power station there. So the FPL, they decide -- they decide to
make an extension, so they make this extension here. So this is
our contribution for the city, and we have enough now.
Relationship between the roads, between the service that
we have in the neighbor [sic] is really important, and we need to
consider that we don't have exit, and we cannot put a lot of
things in this (unintelligible) because it's going to be in a conflict
point.
According to the Collier County community corrective
plan, they want to create neighbors with a lot of connection, and
they are no (unintelligible) that we have to do something like
industrial and any other kinds of things like that.
This -- the section is residential, as you see. The green
zone here means that they are residents, so they are residents
around the -- along to Collier County -- Collier Boulevard, and
we understand that we have some subdistricts, that they are
commercial. They adding the intersection on main roads:
Vanderbilt, Pine Ridge Road, Collier -- Immokalee Road, and
here we have some subdistricts, too, but we don't have
connection in the 13th Avenue. So this is not the place
for -- put in a subdistrict in this place because we don't have a
connective road.
And we have traffic conflicts points now, and we have a lot
of conflicts here. We have conflicts for cross conflict, merge
conflicts, and diverge conflicts here, and we have
just -- actually, we have a lot of problems trying to get -- to go to
the lane. See, we have lane A, B and C. So we have a lot of
merge conflicts. They are considered minor conflicts.
October 10, 2023
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But we have merger conflicts here in the 13th Avenue. So
they want to place the same thing because they want to put an
access to the storage unit this way. So we are going to have the
double traffic conflicts there. So this is in a conflict point.
This is not really something that I want to do. Lane
amount, all the time, is moving. They never stop. This is
North Collier, and they are coming over there. We have to do
something like that I'm going to show you.
This is the thing that we have to do every day to try to
get -- we have two buses stop there. So this is -- we have to
take -- if we want to go North Collier, we have to do a U-turn at
the Green Boulevard, and it's too hard to do it.
As Rachel say, we have five storage units three miles from
13th Avenue. So it's too much. We have five in three miles
for our street. So we don't need more.
It's enough with the electric power station. Electric power
station is on a basis -- in a basic service or not a power
station -- I'm sorry -- no storage units.
Massive construction. I make an animation what they
want to do. No windows, no nothing, but this is the thing that
they are proposing to ask is -- is on a scale, just three floors and
a lot of units.
This is the lot. This is the area that they have for the two
lots, and they want to be 171,000 square feet. If you accept
that, they can -- they can build 1,200 units. The more popular
units for the storage are 10-by-10 or 10-by-20. So they can put
a lot of storage units there.
I discount the circulation, I discount everything, but we
have to consider that they are -- they are (unintelligible) the lot
in 70 percent, but they need more areas in concrete. They need
the parking, the area for loading, they need to be (unintelligible)
October 10, 2023
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the interior, they need area for parking the office, the area for
vehicles. They need a lot of area that is going to be free, but it's
in concrete. So the total area in concrete is going to be 1,094
square feet all of concrete.
This is a big amount of units that they can make there, so
they are going to increase our traffic in 90 percent. They say
that it's only 26 cars every day for the storage units. I don't
think so, because we have 60 families there. Two cars for
family is going to be 120 cars that they are moving, and for the
storage unit, it just -- just we can say that they are going to the
storage unit for three times per month, so they increase the
traffic in 40 cars -- sorry -- in 118 cars daily. And we have the
cars for (unintelligible), on deliveries, maintenance. So even if
they put the entrance in the -- on the Collier, it's going to be in a
big trouble for us.
It's interesting that when we have here the petition, they use
that it says mini, mini and service storage. It's -- I see is the
code. It's standard industrial classification. And I completely
agree. For me, it's this is not commercial. This is completely
industrial.
Low density, for sure, it is not low density. Low density,
if you put more than 70 percent of the lot, it's not low density,
and even in three floors, so it's not low density.
This is the community that we want to do, just -- this is our
neighbor, and (unintelligible) is not going to be fine for that.
Some ideas to place over there, that we have to explore it.
But, anyway, just -- we don't want that. I'm not agree with
the -- with the store -- self-storage unit because I consider that
it's not compatible with a residential use.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Shirley Lytwyn.
October 10, 2023
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She'll be followed by Patricia Lertch. Ms. Lytwyn has been
ceded additional time from Peter Lytwyn.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: I see Peter there letting his wife out. So
she'll have a total of six minutes.
MS. LYTWYN: Can you post the pictures of the flooding
on the street. Did you get the little thing? Or maybe not. Oh,
you got it.
So I got, like, nine photos of flooding. I live at the
beginning of the street.
MR. MILLER: Ma'am, you'll have to wait till -- your
comments till you get on microphone.
MS. LYTWYN: Oh, sorry.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ready, Mr. Miller?
MR. MILLER: It's going to take me a couple seconds to
get these slides ready for her, sir. If you can give me just a
second here.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. MILLER: One more second, sir. All right.
MS. LYTWYN: I live on 4131 13th Avenue Southwest.
I'm the third house on the right. I've lived here for 34 years,
and I'm also a realtor on top of that.
So today, these are -- this is what's happened right after a
hurricane, Hurricane Irma and Hurricane Ian. So these
are -- these are some of the photos here. It's unreal.
MR. MILLER: And that was the final picture.
MS. LYTWYN: I think that was it.
So we fear that all this hardscape that's going to come with
this building is going to cause us more problems, because any
excess water is going to flow west towards us. We spoke with
the engineer to the county, and he told us that. He said, there's
October 10, 2023
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going to be a berm and everything, but the excess is going to
flow. Don't you think we have enough water here?
So, anyway. Thank you for the photos.
This was mentioned before, that Parker Tree Service lived
there. He lived there around, you know, September 2017; that
was Hurricane Irma. And Noel Davies said that no one has
lived there for 15 years. This is not correct. Parker Tree
Service lived there for two or three years, so...
Let's see. Larry Brooks died in October 2019. He was
the owner of this property, and his son sold his property to
Matthew Maloney, a limited liability corporation, in November
of 2021.
Matthew and Michael Maloney work at Premiere Plus
Realty. According to Mike's biography on NABOR, he has
built and developed some major real estate projects. Mike has a
very strong network of attorneys. Greg O'Herren, the builder,
boasted at our first meeting, to Pat, and she said that -- he said
this will pass; we have lawyers.
Matthew Maloney, he became this manager of 4050 13th
Avenue Southwest, limited liability company. He submitted a
property disclosure proposal form on February 2nd that you
have in front of you. Matthew failed to disclose that he was a
realtor, that Eric Johnson was the chief financial officer of
Peluso Movers.
A person who hides nothing has nothing to hide.
I got this from another realtor. Eric Johnson is -- well,
Eric Johnson is part owner of this property. My friend told me
that Eric Johnson is the chief financial officer of Peluso Moving
& Storage and an agent for United Van Lines. He said that he
was probably going to use most of this storage building for
himself. He said that he just moved a friend of his, and he
October 10, 2023
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needs more storage.
I told Noel Davies outside here, I said, Noel, I'm aware that
Eric Johnson is part owner here, and Noel said, it's a limited
liability company, and left.
At the planning meeting, I brought it to the planners, and
they talked to Noel about it, and he said he's a human. He can't
even mention his name. I'm so tired of the lies; I am.
Anyway, I told this to the planners. They voted 3-3. And
these were the contingencies: United Van Lines could not
control most of these storage units, and add a shelter for the
kids.
Thank you for your time. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Pat Lertch, and she
will be -- oh, well, hold on a minute. Pat, I'm having trouble
finding your PowerPoint here. Give me just a second.
MS. LERTCH: Sure.
MR. MILLER: No, that's not it. That's the right one, isn't
it, Pat? Is that the right PowerPoint?
MS. LERTCH: No. It's 4050. I know we had it in really
good yesterday.
MR. MILLER: Yes. And that's not -- is that it? No.
MS. LERTCH: Yes, it looks like it.
MR. MILLER: Oh, is that it?
MS. LERTCH: No, that's not it. It's got the big letters
4050.
MR. MILLER: Yeah, I -- somehow it's not there. Do you
have your thumb drive?
MS. LERTCH: I do.
MR. MILLER: I'm sorry, Mr. Commissioner. I don't
know what happened to this.
MS. LERTCH: I should have taken it out when I got up.
October 10, 2023
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It's right here.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I haven't eaten all day, if you
find anything in there, quarter pounder with cheese, burrito, you
know, candy bar, hard candy, anything.
MS. LERTCH: You know what I'm going to do? I'm
going to give him my pocketbook. I don't mean to do that.
And while you're looking, I'll be talking.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Don't get snake bit.
MR. MILLER: Thank you, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The scary part is he has
the nerve to stick his hand in a woman's pocketbook.
MS. LERTCH: He is a sweetheart. He really is.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's like a major
league no. That's Rule 101; never do that.
MS. LERTCH: Okay. Wait a minute. Hold on. There
goes my cards. There goes everything. Here it is, hold on.
Right in here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There we go.
(Applause.)
MS. LERTCH: What a way to make an entrance.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Wow.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Now, we're counting on this
presentation to be, like, fabulous, fabulous; slides, movies, you
know, all kinds of things.
MS. LERTCH: It looks like a mess right now.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: She gets a gold star just
for doing that.
MS. LERTCH: My pocketbook -- I just changed
pocketbooks. It shouldn't look like this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll just tell you this young
lady has burned more shoe leather in this building in all of our
October 10, 2023
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offices with --
MS. LERTCH: You didn't know I put a bill in for new
shoes.
MR. MILLER: Pat, let me read off these names of people
who ceded time to you real quick.
MS. LeBEAU: Sure.
MR. MILLER: I'm so sorry.
Darlene Muszynski?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
Modelyne Jean -- I can't make out the last name. Is it --
MS. LERTCH: Okay. It's Modelyne --
MR. MILLER: Modelyne Jean Giles.
MS. LERTCH: Giles, but she had to go pick up her
children.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Hagen Rugrig?
(Raises hand.)
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Hagen's here.
MR. MILLER: Sorry, I missed you.
Wow. Is this Ami Loaner or Ari Loaner?
MS. LeBEAU: She had to leave and go get her children.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Joe Lertch. He better be here.
MS. LERTCH: Put your hand up.
MR. MILLER: Mary Klein?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Mary Klein, okay. I've got Mary.
All right, Pat, that takes us down to five people, so that will
be 15 minutes.
MS. LERTCH: Okay. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: You're quite welcome.
MS. LERTCH: Okay. I put up this -- I want to do, really,
October 10, 2023
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three things. I want to talk about our Golden Gate Area Master
Plan, how important that is, and I want to talk about, really, the
main important things to me. I wanted to do the PowerPoint,
but I know it's been covered, and I gave that to Troy Miller
yesterday.
But I want to talk about Modelyne, Modelyne Jean Giles,
because she's our number [sic]. Let's go through this
PowerPoint really fast.
You all know the history of the Golden Gate Area Master
Plan, and you can see there. I mean, I don't think I have to read
every item, but you can know what -- no, it's important. Let's
read it. Okay. Golden Gate. Board of Commissioners
adopted the county's comprehensive Growth Management Plan
on January the 10th, 1989, and they just updated it in
January -- I've got it here. It was updated February the 20th,
2023. So that's been updated, and I am so glad it is because that
is so important. That is what's really saving us.
So we've got this. You know what it is. You all have
been there in the thing. So let's skip to the next one.
And now I -- listen, I have to apologize. I went ahead and
put a picture in of our commissioner, Rick LoCastro.
Happened to take it out of his newsletter because it was like
a -- he's going up for, you know, election. So his election one,
and I thought, well, I wasn't "electoring" or trying to do election
things for him, but -- so anyway, I took that. We got that out.
But I like his letter, and I've got to read this. In Rick
LoCastro's newsletter dated April the 25th, 2022, he spoke about
the abundance of self-storage warehouses having been built on
East 41 in his district and said in the second paragraph, we
continue to approve steps to ensure the progress and finality of
this analysis, which will ensure, going forward, we have
October 10, 2023
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established stronger criteria for design and construction, much
like the Golden Gate Master Plan, which has often protected
areas of that district/community from haphazard construction,
unneeded, unwanted commercial buildings, and which gives
citizens that much more voice when it comes to things being
added to their community. So, too, will this U.S. [sic] overlay
plan do for District 1. So he had an overlay plan for that. So
in other words, Rick -- Commissioner Rick LoCastro wanted to
make policy in his District 1 as strong as we have the policy in
District 3.
And this is really beautiful. Now, what I'm looking at and
what you're looking at is the land, the land. The house is to the
left. So the Estates -- and I'll go ahead and try to stay on script.
It said, the Estates designation is characterized by low density,
semirural residential lots with limited opportunities for other
land use. And Goal 2 from our Golden Gate Area Master Plan,
serving the needs of Collier County Estates residents.
We do not need one. If we needed one, we would have
had one, and that is how we feel. We don't need it. So why
are you forcing this on us? And they keep telling us we need it.
We keep telling them we don't need it, or we would have one.
And Goal 3 is preserving rural character, to preserve the
area rural character as defined by large wooded lots, the keeping
of livestock, the ability to grow crops, wildlife activity,
environmental stewardship, low-density residential
development, and limitations on commercial and conditional
uses. That is what it's all about.
Now, here's a picture when the house looked beautiful, and
it still does look beautiful. And I'll tell you, it's a piece of
property that you could be coming down the street, and when
you get to the electric power plant, you have an uneasiness about
October 10, 2023
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yourself, but you get to this property and there is a calmness.
There is a peace there. This -- you could stand out in the
sidewalk and walk in the backyard, and it's peaceful. You don't
even hear all that traffic. This all buffers out all the noise.
This is the -- this is the house as it stands today. It's from
neglect, and that is so sad when housing is so important and
needed.
Now, for this self-service 175 -- 171,500 square feet
warehouse, is it going to be like this? Because all we're getting
is pictures that show us -- and I have them here -- it shows us
just nothing but woods and trees and shrubs and grass. And
when John Boutwell, our neighbor, who went ahead and was on
the board of the Golden Gate Area Master Plan, read what was
going on, he said, it's going to be four acres of concrete, and
every shrub and tree and grass will be removed, and we're going
to have nothing but concrete.
And when I look at this slide right here, it said, down at the
bottom, last paragraph, 10 other sites available. Why 13th
Avenue? And it said the developer identified 10 other sites
within a three-mile radius that could be developed into
self-storage. Eight of them already are zoned commercial and
in more industrial locations. Because the lot at 4050 13th
Avenue Southwest is zoned single-family residential, it was
cheaper for the developer than paying [sic] a premium
commercially zoned lot. Don't let developers cheat us and our
zoning laws. Contact your representatives.
Anyway, next one.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Can you go back one slide.
Now I know why Commissioner Hall and Commissioner Kowal
didn't get any emails, because it has Penny Taylor on there,
who's long gone, and I don't see Commissioner Kowal or
October 10, 2023
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Commissioner Hall. So I know Commissioner McDaniel and
myself and, obviously, Commissioner Saunders were getting
overwhelmed by plenty of emails, and these guys were getting
off scot-free. Now I know why.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Never question a man's
strategy.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right. I don't know how you
pulled that off.
MS. LERTCH: They're new, and they're just learning,
yep.
Okay. Anyway. Babes in the swimming pool. This is
the house that 4013 is [sic], and you know what it looks like.
You know how beautiful it was. And with neglect, it's sad.
Let's go to the next one. Now, the planners and developers
are saying no one would want to live on this land because of the
Florida Power & Light, and I think we've already proved it with
our dear friend. I hope you don't mind me calling you friend.
MR. LaGARDE: Sure. Of course, of course.
MS. LERTCH: Dear friend, okay, Richard LaGrade,
okay. He already showed you this, so let's keep skipping to the
next one. And we can skip.
And this is a comparison of the square feet. We already
did this. And then, now, I'm coming to this plot of land. If
you see -- it's on Collier County [sic]. And I'm wondering,
right now, the way the situation is with three lanes of
traffic -- and I went ahead and did a traffic survey on April the
12th of 2023 from 6 to 9, and I've got the traffic count in one
lane alone closest to the land, and that was 6,317 vehicles were
on that -- on that survey.
Now, when -- I just got a phone call recently and said, you
know, well, they went ahead and did another survey and did
October 10, 2023
Page 179
some counting on the land, and it was 33,260-something, and I
said, boy, that's a lot of -- that's a lot of vehicles. And then
when I went and looked at the one I did in one lane, which was
6,313 [sic], multiply that by the six lanes, there you get your 36
[sic] number. So it's all, like, in there.
Okay. Next one.
Now, this is the woods. This is the woods which has got
the entryway where they're going to be coming in. You saw the
plan. You saw where they're coming in. This is where they're
going to come in. And look at that -- shrubs there. Look at
those trees. It all has to come out. All our place -- all our low
density, it's supposed to be, all the low impact they're saying
about it, and all the -- you know, everything, intensity, impact,
low development. That is not going to be low density, low
impact, or anything when they're having to take all the shrubs
out. We live in shrubs. We live in trees. We live in
everything that is outdoors, and it's beautiful. And, this is all
coming out, and that building's going to stand out, stake
it -- staked naked to the eye. It's even going to expose all the
power plants that are there behind it.
Okay. The next one, please.
And there you can see that blue arrow. That's where
they're going to get in. And how in the world are they going to
get in in Collier Boulevard with all the trucks, as Richard
LaGarde has said? You're going to have bulldozers, all of that.
Okay. Now, I want to mention one thing. I just wanted to
go over this. And this is the Florida -- your plan, Golden Gate
Area Master Plan. And it -- two, it says we don't need to
do -- and we don't want it. We went over that, covered that.
And now I have a picture here I want to give you, and
could I somehow -- do you have a visual-wise that I could --
October 10, 2023
Page 180
MR. MILLER: Right there.
What are you doing? One more time. There you go.
MS. PATTERSON: I'm watching my screen.
MS. LERTCH: If you will look at this house and you see
the drive in, right across the street, 18 feet, 8 inches, is where the
drive is to where they're building this warehouse. This house,
there is a mother and father, grandmother, and four children,
ranging in age from high school down to kindergarten. And she
also is a doctor, her husband is a doctor, and they're working
seven on and seven off, seven days a week. They -- that's their
sleeping quarters, where they sleep.
The hours of the power -- hours of warehouse was going to
be 7 to -- 7 to 9, then it went up to 7 to 10. Now it's 6 to 10.
And they're going to be open 7 days a week, 16 hours a day.
You figure how many days that place is going to be open. Oh,
they said, oh, well, they'll be closed, and -- it's still going to be
open after it's closed after 10:00. People are going to be
coming. They'll have their card to get in. And there, they're
going to hear all this noise.
This is residential. This is not commercial. So why
should somebody come in that is commercial and disturb our
residential?
Now, I was at meetings yesterday, and we were told, but
they have a right. They have a right. And I thought, they have
a right? And I'm coming home. They have a right? And I
thought, don't we have a right? And I kept saying that all night:
Don't we have a right? And this morning, this morning in my
mind -- and I know who it was -- said, they don't have a right.
They knew the property was Golden Gate Area Master Plan
Residential Estate. They knew that and, yet, they still bought it.
They bought it because it was cheaper. So they know what
October 10, 2023
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they're doing, and now they're trying to force it onto us that we
need a 171,500-square-feet warehouse? They're forcing it onto
us that -- they say, oh, it's going to be low density. It's going to
be low key. You need it. Everything's going to be fine, and
we're doing this. We're going to have an internal drive-in. It's
all supposed to be underneath there. You won't know it. You
won't -- well, I'll tell you what, we will know it because it's
going to be busy and noisy even trying to build it.
And these people have to sleep. Their other businesses are
only open about one day, maybe they're open -- I mean, they're
closed one day. Maybe two days they're closed. But this
business is going to be open day and night. Nobody's going to
stop it from coming. And these people are trying to live, make
a life for themselves and working hard, and we're going to allow
that to happen?
This needs to be turned down. They can sell the property.
They paid 375,000 for the property, and it's worth 450,000 now.
They could sell it, and they could go elsewhere. You need
warehouses out over -- east of Collier Boulevard. Let them go
out there. It's not that they lost anything. We would be losing.
So they have a problem; we don't. We do have a problem
if it's okayed.
So we're asking you that we could say this -- can we put
this one on? That's what we're asking. It's not much. It's not
costing them anything, but it's costing us our life. It's costing us
our livelihood. It's costing us our way of life, and that would be
really coming in upon us and be detrimental, and we don't want
that.
And I thank you for listening to me and the nonsensical
things that are going up here.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, your final registered
October 10, 2023
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speaker is Andrew Blitch. He's been ceded additional time
from Angelique Blitch, who I believe is right there.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Pat? Pat?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: What's your last name?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Pat.
MR. MILLER: Lertch.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What's your last name?
MS. LERTCH: Lertch.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Lertch.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's the reason.
MS. LERTCH: I won't leave you in the lurch.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's the reason she
was -- I couldn't figure out why you were yelling at Joe, but now
I know.
MR. MILLER: Also, Randy Blitch who, yes, is back
there.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Dustin Espinosa?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Brooke Beardsley?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Over there. Thank you.
And Jaclyn Adams?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Yes. So that is a total of, I believe it's six
speakers. So you will have a total of 18 minutes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Terri, just strike from the
record that Pat said she wants all the storage units east of Collier
Boulevard, okay? Pat, that's now in my district, okay. So easy
on that. We take them one at a time.
Sir.
October 10, 2023
Page 183
MR. BLITCH: Good afternoon, Commissioners.
I apologize, I don't have a PowerPoint today. I feel a little
inadequate.
My name is Andrew Blitch. I was born on 13th Avenue
Southwest, and I am now a resident on 13th Avenue Southwest.
13th Avenue Southwest is where I chose to raise my family.
I'm not a NIMBY. There are actual exceptional reasons why
this project should not be approved.
I am a former police officer, and now I'm a current small
business owner here in Naples. The developer has spoken
about how he has given us several concessions to the
neighborhood already, and I'd like to speak about those
concessions and also the concessions that they have refused to
give.
Their main concessions that they are touting is moving the
driveway off of 13th and onto Collier and also adding the bus
stop on 13th Avenue. The reason this was done is because I
brought it up last year at the neighborhood information meeting.
I pointed out how the children's lives would be in danger if they
were standing at the corner waiting for the school bus and a
large moving truck were to turn onto 13th Avenue.
Soon after that neighborhood information meeting,
Mr. Davies and Mr. Vanasse reached out to me to talk. I
invited them into my place of business, and we had a meeting in
my office. They acknowledged that there was a danger to the
kids, and they were going to try to move the driveway onto
Collier Boulevard.
They stated that they may have trouble with the county
staff approving it, and at the time they did; however, it appears
now that the county staff also agrees with the danger that this
imposed to the children and has since also agreed to move the
October 10, 2023
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driveway onto Collier.
I do not consider this a concession. Making a change to
ensure a child isn't killed by one of their moving trucks is an
obvious given that they had to do; it had to be done. It is in
their own self-interest for liability reasons. There wasn't any
way around it. They should have realized this in their initial
plans. The developer shouldn't be bragging about how they
made this change for us and also telling us how much more
money it will cost them to make this change. This obviously
had to be done and shouldn't even be considered a concession.
The developer also is stating that they gave another
concession by adding the covered bus stop and parking area.
While this is considerate on their part, it was never something
that any of the neighbors ever asked them to do. It should also
not be considered a concession because it didn't address any of
the real issues that the neighbors brought up to them.
The Planning Commission met about this issue about five
months ago and, thankfully, they did not vote to approve this
project. They saw how ridiculous it was to put a building larger
than a SuperTarget in the Estates on a residential lot, and I'm
hoping that you do as well.
Soon after the meeting, the Collier County Planning
Commission meeting, I reached out to Mr. Davies and
Mr. Vanasse by email. I sent them an email acknowledging
that this still may pass, and I asked for several real concessions
that they consider in order to make this project less offensive to
our neighborhood and the Estates as a whole, and here are the
things that I asked for.
The first thing I asked is to have manned security on patrol
overnight while the employees are not there and to have
employees there during all hours of the day when they are open
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for tenants to be -- to have access to it. Currently, their plan is
to allow access to their tenants during early morning and late
evening hours while there is no employees on site.
As I mentioned before, I was a police officer in Texas for
seven years. During my time there, I dealt with hundreds of
break-ins to storage units. Other times I had to deal with
tenants doing illegal acts inside their own storage units. Having
security and employees there at all times would help prevent
tenants from having unsupervised access and prevent criminals
from breaking into the units. That's one of -- that's the first
thing I asked them to do.
The second thing I asked them to do was to choose a
different brand to manage the property. CubeSmart is known
industry-wide for being a low-quality, low-price, low-security
self-storage provider. This is Naples, Florida. We don't have
to settle for the lowest-end brand. We should have higher-end
brands operating here, especially since they are putting it in
a -- they are putting it in a residential neighborhood. So I asked
them -- the second thing I asked them was to change the brand.
The third thing I asked them was instead of low-quality
self-storage, build a luxury self-storage, like wine storage or
luxury car storage. There are several of these types of buildings
and facilities already here in Naples, and they are all able to be
profitable, and they're much smaller. Again, this is Naples.
Luxury storage will work here.
The fourth thing I asked them was to change the look of the
building. The current renderings show the typical industrial
look with a red roof. Change the design so it doesn't look so
offensive and industrial. Because it is being built in a
residential area right next to houses, it should have a more
residential look to it.
October 10, 2023
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If you look at the new commercial buildings in Downtown
Naples, for example, they have managed to achieve a more
palatable look to them. This developer could do the same.
The fifth thing I asked them to do was I asked for no
drive-up exterior units. As a police officer investigating all the
crimes that happen at the storage units, almost all of them were
the drive-up units. A burglar can drive up -- their car right up
to the storage unit, and they won't have to walk very far at all.
They prefer drive-ups because they like to work fast. Interior
units don't offer the luxury of a faster break-in and getaway.
The newer high-end storage units that you see being built
nowadays are almost always interior-only units. You don't see
many drive-up units being built anymore. Why go back in time
and build unsafe units when the market has already proven that
interior units -- interior-only units are safer and more profitable?
The sixth thing I asked them in the email was I asked them
to create a much larger buffer of at least 250 feet and add much
more landscaping than is currently proposed.
Also, the trees -- I asked them if they could be larger at the
time of planting.
Currently, their tallest trees at the time of planting are only
10 feet. Those will not hide a massive building. Taller and
more dense trees and plants will help hide the building and be
less offensive to us neighbors.
The seventh thing I asked them to do, and it's the most
important thing, I think, is to reduce the square footage to a
normal size storage unit. Currently, the largest storage unit in
Collier County is 130,000 square feet, and it's on 11 acres in an
industrial area. This one is 170,000 square feet on five acres in
a residential area.
There is a newer storage unit on Vanderbilt just west of
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Collier behind the Winn-Dixie. Mr. LaGarde mentioned it
earlier. It's interior units only, and it's around 90,000 square
feet. I asked him to build something like that. Most storage
units in Collier are smaller than 100,000 square feet, and they
are able to make a profit. It is not unreasonable to ask that they
reduce the size to under 100,000 square feet given that it is
being built on a relatively small lot in a residential
neighborhood.
After I sent this email, they replied back that they wanted to
have a sitdown meeting with me. About a month later, I met
them at their office. At the meeting, they told me that in
regards to the manned security, 24 hours, and the landscaping,
that they'd have to talk to their developer about it, but they
couldn't make any promises there at the meeting, and I haven't
heard anything since about those two issues either.
In regards to the buffer being larger, they said no. In
regards to eliminating the drive-up exterior units, they said no.
In regards to changing the looks of the building to a more
residential look, they said no. In regards to creating a luxury
storage facility like a wine storage or exotic cars, they said no.
In regards to dropping CubeSmart and having a higher-end
management company, they said no. In regards to reducing the
square footage to a normal-sized storage building, they said no.
I then asked them if they would consider any reduction in
size at all. They said no. Since the meeting, they reduced it
from 174- to 171-, full disclosure, but they told me no at the
time.
I don't understand what the point of the meeting was that
they called. They could have just replied back to my email with
a simple no. Anyway, the concessions that they have said that
they offered weren't very serious concessions, and when I
October 10, 2023
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presented real concessions that would actually be more palatable
for the neighborhood, they said no.
The developer's argument that the FPL station has rendered
the land useless is not true. Mr. LaGarde pointed that out
earlier. There are numerous other FPL stations throughout
Collier, and there are very expensive homes right next to them.
I've also heard the argument for property rights brought up
as well. I own property on 13th. If I asked all you
commissioners to rezone my property for a self-storage unit, you
would unanimously tell me no, and rightfully so. And they
don't even own the property as of today, so they don't have any
rights.
For the reasons that you would tell me no should be the
same reasons you can tell them no. Their lot is a residential lot
with a house on it; so is mine. If my property rights don't allow
me to rezone for commercial use, then neither should theirs.
The fact that their property is next to FPL and on Collier
doesn't all of a sudden give them special rights that the rest of us
don't have for our own property.
The house that is currently there was lived in, as mentioned
before, by Mr. Parker, until about 2018. He rented the house
out until he passed away, and then the trust fund that owns it
decided not to list it for rent anymore. They, instead, chose to
sell it, but they didn't list it on MLS. They chose LoopNet and
listed it as a commercial lot. They didn't even try to list it as a
house. Had they done so, it definitely would have sold.
The last thing I would like to speak about is the Golden
Gate Area Master Plan. I read it in its entirety, and I've looked
at the map. There are currently no storage facilities operating
within the bounds -- boundaries of the Estates. There are also
no large industrial buildings either. The reason these don't
October 10, 2023
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currently exist is because the Golden Gate Area Master Plan
does not allow those types of buildings.
If you look at the Estates map, the only commercial you see
currently is zoned C-1 through C-3: Grocery stores, doctors'
offices, dentists, gas stations, churches, schools, strip centers.
This project would be the first C-5 or industrial-zoned
projects in the Estates. This storage unit would be out of
character for the Golden Gate Area Master Plan. If this is
allowed, it would set a new precedent in the Estates for large
industrial buildings, and I fear that more would then pop up as a
result of this one being allowed.
Here are just a few goals and policies of the Golden Gate
Master Plan that this violates: Goal 2 states, to provide for the
limited commercial services and conditional uses for purposes of
serving the rural needs of the Golden Gate Estates residents and
preserving the rural character. Let me repeat: To provide for
the limited commercial services and conditional uses for
purposes of serving the residents of Golden Gate Estates.
The Estates residents don't need storage units. All of them
have large lots and most with their own storage buildings on the
property. This storage unit would only serve people outside of
the Estates, so it violates Goal 2.
Goal 3 of the Golden Gates Area Master Plan states, to
preserve the area's rural character as defined by large wooded
lots, the keeping of livestock, the ability to grow crops, wildlife
activity, environmental stewardship, low-density residential
development, and limitations on commercial uses. Limitations
on commercial uses.
A building that is 175 -- 170,000 square feet, industrial
building right next to houses, doesn't exactly preserve the rural
character of the Estates and goes against the entirety of Goal 3.
October 10, 2023
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A little further down in the master plan, Policy 3.2.3 states,
the rural character shall further be protected by resisting
site-specific master plan changes that are out of scale or
character with the rural quality of the Urban Golden Gate
Estates.
Again, it resists site-specific master plan changes that are
out of the scale or character with the rural quality of the Estates.
I think that one's pretty clear.
We cannot ignore the Golden Gate Area Master Plan, and
allowing this project to continue would be in violation of several
policies and goals of the plan. Let's not throw out the master
plan for a CubeSmart built by an out-of-state developer.
Because of this ridiculous -- of the ridiculous size of this unit,
because of the developer's refusal to negotiate and agree to any
serious concessions, and because of all the violations with the
Golden Gate Area Master Plan, I and the rest of the Estates
community ask that you vote no on this monstrous project.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, that was our final speaker
on this item.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I mean, normally we
would take a break here at 3:45. I don't know how deep we are
into -- I mean, we've heard from all the speakers. Do you want
to press and continue -- I don't know if we've got conflicting
discussion here.
Commissioner Saunders, let me turn it over to you, sir, just
to lead us off.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Obviously the petitioner
has an opportunity to rebut some of that, and that may be
appropriate first, and then I'd like to jump in.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sounds good.
October 10, 2023
Page 191
Okay. Mr. Davies.
MR. DAVIES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
A number of items to go through here on rebuttal. Start
with the residential-use comments. So to clarify for the record,
we are not the current property owner. We're the contract
purchaser. We don't have obligations to market the property.
We wouldn't have the right to do that since we don't own the
property.
We do have property rights to go through your rezone
process. We have met your criteria for that. We've provided
the requisite evidence to support our petition, your -- or
petitions. Your staff has reviewed that and agree that we meet
your legal criteria.
We don't have to prove to you that there's no viable
residential use. I think this is an important legal point. We
have to prove to you that we meet your LDC and GMPA criteria
for the pending applications. I don't believe there's a viable
residential use. You can decide that for yourselves. It's right
next to two power plants. I know you-all have been there and
are familiar with the site.
But as a legal matter, I'm not obligated to prove that there's
no viable residential use. That's not the correct legal standard.
I have to prove to you, as I said, that we meet the county's legal
criteria by competent substantial evidence. And it's our
position that the testimony and the evidence in the record, as
well as the opinion of your staff, meets that legal burden, which
is the appropriate legal standard.
There was something mentioned about -- well, several
times mentioned that we've ignored or Mr. Blitch mentioned
about, you know, how we didn't make any major concessions.
I'm not going to repeat the items that we've made. I think that
October 10, 2023
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the record's clear how this project evolved from the initial
submittal to today. Those are real and material changes that we
have done, and they've been -- they've been done in response
specifically to the request of the neighbors in the multiple
outreach that we've had with them.
There was a comment about safety of the grandchildren and
the kids on the street. You heard me speak about this. That is
and was during this process of paramount importance to us.
That's why we are doing the bus stop and waiting area. That's
not an insignificant addition. It's on our client's property, and
that's something that we didn't take away when we
added -- when we got the access on 951. It's something we
want -- we want to do, and we recognize that, and we want -- we
want to make sure that there's a safe place for parents and kids to
wait for the school bus.
Size was mentioned. There were a number of examples
provided. They're on different acreages than our acreage.
You've got to look at each project individually. That's part of
the staff review process. Your staff has reviewed this. You
don't -- you don't evaluate a self-storage project or any other
project in a vacuum. You look at the development standards.
You look at what's been proposed. You look at the buffering.
You look at the setbacks. And your staff has done that and
has -- agrees that we meet the pertinent criteria for that.
Regarding landscaping commitments, there were some
comments about other projects from my client in other states. I
stressed this in my opening remarks, but we are committing to
provide the landscaping that we promised. We worked very
hard with staff on this. There's specific language in the PUD
document about what we have to do. That's above and beyond
what your code requires. That's, again, in response to the
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neighbor requests, and that's significant.
We cannot get an SDP from you if that's not met. You
have a detailed process, as you know, to review Site
Development Plan applications after zoning. That process
includes making sure that what's proposed at SDP meets the
developer commitments at zoning.
That is a developer commitment that we're making today
that we don't have to make today because we could just go
through the SDP process and do the minimum. That's not what
we want to do. We want to do much more than that.
The same rationale applies with respect to the school bus
and the waiting area. That's an SDP requirement. It's also
voluntary, but we've worked hard with your staff to get there
about certain specifics of that. We've put that in our developer
commitments now at zoning, and that language is incorporated
into the PUD document that's before you.
Regarding the fire argument, a couple comments here. We
have specific restrictions in our contracts with the customers that
would -- that would prevent that. We can't prevent -- we can't
control what people do, but we're going to do our best to do that.
That's our practice. That's in our standard contract. You can't
have hazardous substances. You can't operate a business. You
can't have fireworks. You can't have any of that stuff that was
commented on.
Also, from a strict building code perspective, we've got to
comply with all fire codes and building codes. One of those
provisions relates to having a fire sprinkler system. That is
required. That's in the stringent standards of the Florida
Building Code as adopted by the county with the changes by the
county. It's heavily regulated. And, again, before our building
permit can get issued, before a certificate of completion can get
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issued from this project, I know you're all familiar with the level
of detail that goes into inspecting the construction and
inspecting those fire suppressant systems, which we're required
to do.
I don't know when the code was changed to add that. I do
know that it hasn't been in there forever to do a fire sprinkler
system, so some of the other facilities -- I'm not sure about the
facilities that aren't in Collier County, but I know that some of
the older ones -- at some point that was added to the FBC, the
Florida Building Code, so they may not have had those fire
sprinkler systems. We will have that. We will meet all fire
and building codes.
There was a comment about drive-through 18-wheelers.
For the record, I just want to clarify, we don't have that. We're
not doing that. That doesn't apply to our project. There was
also something mentioned about a moving company. Again,
for the record, to rebut that comment, that is not the applicant.
There's no involvement, based on my client, with some sort of
moving company, so that's not a correct statement.
I'll sum up there. I'm happy to answer any questions. I'm
not going to repeat the list of material changes that we've made
to try to accommodate the neighbors. We really do want to be a
good neighbor, and we've proven that throughout the process
and shared that with you today.
So with that, from a legal perspective, we do meet your
criteria, your staff is in agreement with that, and that's why
we're, respectfully, asking for your vote of approval.
Thank you, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you. I assume
the public hearing is closed?
October 10, 2023
Page 195
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I would say that some
of the presentations today were really very good in terms of the
public organized in their presentations, so I do want to
compliment everybody on that.
If you would put up a -- Ms. Patterson, if you'd put that up
slide there. I have a couple questions for Mr. Davies.
This is something that the neighborhood had presented
so -- and gave me a copy of it, and I wanted to talk to you a little
bit about it --
MR. DAVIES: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- because I think the
facility is way too large, and from the sounds of what you just
said, there's no flexibility on your part. And so I just wanted to
confirm that, because right now you're at 171,000-square-foot
facility with drive-up storage, and I personally don't think that
that fits into the neighborhood. I'm not sure that any of this
really complies with the Comprehensive Plan. But if we can
get around that, this is still too large. And so I'm wondering if
there's any flexibility on your part to reconfigure this and take
into account the concerns that were raised in terms of the
drive-up, the size of the facility, and that sort of thing.
MR. DAVIES: Appreciate the comments, Commissioner.
Absolutely, I'd love to respond.
First, we do have the two different types of units: One of
the drive-up units; the other is the building in the southern
portion of the site. That's the three-story building, and
that's -- those are not drive-up units.
As for the size, you know, we did decrease it the 3,500
square feet based on that building at the northeast corner. That
creates the additional separation.
October 10, 2023
Page 196
As I mentioned, this was reviewed by your staff. It should
be reviewed not in a vacuum, like I said, based on just
comparing numbers of square footage, but looking at the parcel
size, looking at the setbacks, looking at all the other
development standards. And we feel that we've created a
project that meets those additional standards and so,
respectfully, to your question, there's no additional room to
reduce the square footage of the project.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And, Mr. Chairman, I
don't have any other questions. I will make a comment that I
can't support this. I asked the petitioner if there was any
willingness to consider the size there. Obviously, there isn't.
So regardless of what motion is made, I'm not -- I can't support
this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And I'll say that on the
record in terms of the Comp Plan. I don't think it's compatible
with our Comp Plan, and so that's part of the bases of my
concerns with it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got some
questions, but I'm going to go to -- Commissioner Hall's lit up,
and then Commissioner McDaniel.
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah, thank you, Chair.
So originally looking at this, I could see where residential
use was not going to be appealing between the two FPLs. One
of them said, prove it. I don't think we have to prove it, you
know. And this slide right here is a great example, the
neighbors right now that are existing don't want to be next to it.
That's what we've heard. What would make these neighbors
here want to be next to anything? So to say that that's a -- that's
October 10, 2023
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a reasonable use is a stretch for me. It's questionable.
Whether the thing was never put on the MLS or whether it
was on LoopNet doesn't really matter. It's not applicable.
And, you know, you do -- you have met the legal requirements
for the ask, no doubt about it. But in -- with comments from
Commissioner Saunders of it, you know, the rural character, the
intent of the neighborhood, I can concur with that; however, you
are on Collier Boulevard, and there are things in the very close
vicinity that are not residential.
Just bear with me while I'm talking out loud here.
The community asked you about security. I can see where
that could be costly. They asked you about -- to remove the
drive-ups because of his experience with law enforcement.
And I'm a landlord. I totally concur to the same -- the same
conclusion. That was a fair ask. A better look to be less
industrial and more residential was a fair ask. The CubeSmart
change, the management change, that's discretionary. I'm not
going to play with that one.
To be a normal-size building is a fair ask, and
Commissioner Saunders asked if there was any consideration for
that at all. You put 171,000 square feet; you've reduced it
3,500 feet. You reduced it 2 percent. That's really -- to me,
that doesn't even count; doesn't even play.
I think it's a good spot for a storage unit. I don't think it's a
good spot for 171,000 square feet. And I started out this
morning fairly comfortable with it, but when I saw the -- when I
saw the comparisons of the square footage, you did, you said
they were on different sites. Most of them were twice the
acreage that had less square footage. When I think about the
Waterside Shops being less than what this is, it's across the
street from me. I live right across the road from it. I drive
October 10, 2023
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through it daily. That's a massive building.
So I think the asks by the community are fair. And if you
would seriously consider some of them, I think you would have
a better chance of getting this approved. But just being stuck
and stubborn on 171,000 square feet, I'm not going to get my
head around that, I don't think.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is this 4-1 or 3-2?
MR. KLATZKOW: You need four votes on this one.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. I can count
noses.
Let's start with the property rights. This piece of property
is in the Golden Gate Master Plan next to nonconforming uses.
Your house isn't. Your house is sandwiched in between two
houses. And you were correct by saying if you came up and
asked for a use change on your house, we'd say no. These folks
have the right to ask, not the right to receive. That's the
property-right issue that's, in fact, here, just for point of
clarification.
Well, those two are over there -- I'm getting ready to come
to you now.
MR. DAVIES: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yesterday when you
were in my office, I asked for some kind of comparison of
intensity, because the way I understand it, the five acres can
have four houses, two main houses and two guesthouses, at
two-and-a-quarter per acre is the current density that's allowed.
Have you done any kind of comparison? And have you done
any -- that comparison for me?
MR. DAVIES: I think the transportation engineer did a
quick look. I mean, I can invite Mr. Banks up to try to answer
October 10, 2023
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that question.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. If you would,
please. I just -- because I share the concerns of my colleagues
with this intensity. I mean, we're lining up at 78 percent of the
total land mass for the consumed area for the -- for this
particular site, and it's maximized out. So the intensity is more
than I expected, in all candor.
MR. DAVIES: I'll let Mr. Banks address the comparison,
Commissioner.
MR. BANKS: For the record, Jim -- sorry. I've got little
voice problems today. For the record, Jim Banks.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Do you need a glass of
water? Because we could --
MR. BANKS: It's -- I'm on medication right now, so it's --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Because we have a
water fountain here.
MR. BANKS: I appreciate that, Commissioner, but
water's not going to help me.
For the record, Jim Banks, here on behalf of the applicant.
To answer the commissioner's question, yeah, if four
single-family homes were built on this property, it would
generate five p.m. peak-hour trips. The proposed storage units
generates 26 p.m. peak-hour trips.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Thank you.
My other -- my other issue is, if this -- if this -- if we
were -- and I'm not seeing us leaning in that regard to approve
this as-is right now, but if we were to approve it, we're done. I
mean, we really can't -- as you said, we can't -- we can't dictate
who operates it, what type of flag is operating here. We can't
dictate who's going to -- what the hours of operation are or those
sort of things. We either approve the use, or we don't approve
October 10, 2023
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the use. We approve the use as asked, or we don't approve the
use.
And I -- I would like to hear a little more maybe from our
staff with regard to your commitments for the extra landscaping.
Because, again, I was sitting -- it was 218,000 total -- 200,
plus/minus, 18,000 square feet on the site, and 171,000 of it's
being consumed by the building itself, proper, plus the parking,
doesn't leave an enormous amount of -- an enormous amount of
area on the perimeter.
So, Mike, could you talk a little bit about what they're
offering up as -- you can stay right here. You don't have to go
there, unless you want to. Apparently you want to.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: They wanted to use the --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do what?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: They wanted to use the --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, they have the
visualizer there.
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Planning and Zoning director.
And I don't see a member of our landscape crew to -- what
I was going to suggest was to review the one slide that the
applicant had put up that had his enhanced landscape buffer on
the west side, on the north side, and on the south side as well. I
do believe those were enhanced landscape buffers. We also
have a required preserve that would be going -- that provides for
further green space and a water management lake that's provided
at the north end of the property.
From staff's perspective, just to give you a reason -- or the
understanding of -- we looked at the context of this -- this site.
Not only two FP&L stations, but a six-lane divided highway.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MR. BOSI: You know, I could understand that there
October 10, 2023
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could be a house developed there. I would not want to live at
that house. I wouldn't think it would be appropriate.
Based upon that, we thought the storage facility and the
low-intensity storage was a better fit.
With the enhancements to the bus stop and the isolation
from 13th Street being 148 feet from that right-of-way, we felt
that it was cut off from that residential neighborhood and more
in line with the nonresidential land uses that sit to the south and
sit to the west of the facility. And, of course, the six-lane
divided highway that sits to the east most certainly is not rural in
character in any way, shape, or form and, because of that, staff
arrived upon that recommendation. We thought it was an
appropriate change of use.
Based upon the enhanced landscape, based upon the
relocation of the access point to 951 were all the reasons why we
thought were appropriate. Now, we weren't involved within
negotiations between the neighborhood and the applicant in
terms of the other concessions, so we weren't made aware of
that.
I will say that the Planning Commission made -- they did
not make a recommendation of approval nor did they make a
recommendation of denial. It was 3-3. They were split on it,
so there was no recommendation that came from your Planning
Commission.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I saw that in here, and
that was one of the other questions that I had. If I'm -- am
I -- I'm still on?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It looked to me like the
Planning Commission heard this application with the access to
13th.
October 10, 2023
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MR. BOSI: They did.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. BOSI: They did.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then it was after the
Planning Commission that the applicant chose to relocate to
ingress and egress off of 951?
MR. BOSI: And the -- my understanding -- and
Transportation can maybe correct the record if I'm misspeaking.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: She's coming up right
behind you.
MR. BOSI: But it was the transportation -- it was our
access management policies that was requiring the applicant to
put the access on 13th Street. So that's where that original
access point came. It was later on where we recognized that
that preserve had some -- had some pliability towards where the
location of the preserve was going to be based upon prior
clearing, that we could put an access point on the further
southern point, and that's how we arrived upon that 13th Street
access point.
We feel that with the nonresidential land use, as I said, with
the six-lane highway, and the improvements for the bus stop, we
felt that it was a benefit. We can understand how -- the
perspective of the folks was on 13th Street, but we thought it
was a good fit in terms of lower intensity and providing some
benefit to the neighborhood for a place to be able to park your
car while you're waiting for your kids to go to school.
With that, staff made -- found that recommendation of
approval, and from an intensity perspective, we really did feel
that that -- the self-storage nature is one that it is somewhat
compatible just because of the low intensity and how it's going
to sit and how that access will be off of a six-lane divided
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highway.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. I actually found
that interesting that four single-family homes only generate an
extra five trips. I mean, at two cars per house, that's eight all by
itself just -- I found that interesting, so -- but he's the statistician
on the magic wand of the TIS.
So I would like to hear from -- I did speak with Trinity with
regard to this, because originally when the access got moved off
of 13th, there was a suggested bulb-out, and that was a mess,
and then we apparently ended up with the access point being
moved to the southerly end of the property.
MS. SCOTT: Once again, for the record, Trinity Scott,
Transportation Management Services department head.
Yes, at the Planning Commission, per our access
management policy, Collier Boulevard is a limited access
roadway. We would typically not allow for an access point on
Collier Boulevard. We would require that access point to be on
13th.
When we -- understanding that the residents had some
issues with the access on 13th, we looked at if they could have
access -- a right-in, right-out on Collier Boulevard, which is
where the bulb-out came into consideration with the U-turn at
13th.
I watched the Planning Commission. I wasn't at the
Planning Commission, but I watched it. I listened to the
testimony, and I listened to the testimony of the school board
member who indicated that that's where the school bus stops.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
MS. SCOTT: So that bulb-out would have been in conflict
with that.
The school bus can't stop in the turn lane. It must stop in
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the through lane to be able to stop the traffic.
So after the Planning Commission, I went back to my team
and challenged them a little bit and said, can we come up with a
different option that we can live with? It may not be in line
with our access management, but something that we can live
with that addresses the concerns of the residents.
And I actually approached Mr. Davies after running it
through our Transportation Engineering staff and said, is this
something that your client would be amenable to, which is how
the left-in came to be on Collier Boulevard.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay, thank you.
MS. SCOTT: You're welcome.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then landscape.
Now here comes Jaime.
MS. COOK: Good afternoon. Jaime Cook, your director
of Development Review.
So because this property abuts two streets, on 13th Street
they would be required normally to put in a 10-foot-wide buffer
consisting of both trees -- a single row of trees and a double row
of hedges. They are offering to do a 30-foot-wide buffer with
two rows of trees and the two rows of hedges on 13th.
Along Collier Boulevard, they would normally be required
to do a 15-foot-wide buffer, again, a single row of trees and a
double row of hedges that will also -- that is proposed to be
25 feet wide and a double row of trees and a double row of
hedges. So they are providing the enhanced buffers as a
developer commitment.
Again, as they had previously stated, when their SDP
comes in, the landscape review staff would review that and
make sure that their proposed landscaping on the Site
Development Plan is in accordance with this commitment.
October 10, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MS. COOK: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Bosi's got another thing
for me.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. BOSI: And one other fact that I did not
present -- and I apologize for that -- a commercial development
by our Land Development Code will require 30 percent open
space. I heard some statistics of 78 percent of this lot being
impervious or construct -- by our code, we require at least a
30 percent open-space requirement. That means -- that's
impervious -- that's impervious surface area.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I'm the one that
said the stat, and five acres is the size of the piece of property,
and that's 218,000 square feet, and 171,000 square feet of
building is 78 percent.
MR. BOSI: We -- at the rezoning and the GMP
amendment stage, we only look at -- we look at the square
footage. We don't look at the Site Development Plan, so
maybe --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Gotcha. You know
what, Commissioner Kowal just corrected me. I'm -- I forgot
about the multistory on the south end. My bad.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal, go
ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I -- you know, I was up here listening to all the citizens and
everybody that testified today, and I was really impressed that,
you know, everybody came here prepared and, you know -- and
October 10, 2023
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thought this out.
And, you know, and I'm here -- I wasn't talking -- texting
on my phone. I was actually looking at maps. I was looking at
Google. And I'm, like, checking this area out. And, you
know, I'm looking at the particular -- you know, we talk about if
something fits or doesn't fit, or if it's -- you know, if it's cohesive
in the area, what's around it. And, you know, so I started
looking, and I looked at 13th Street. I made some notes.
So if you take north of 13th Street, there's six residential
homes along the western side of Collier Boulevard. And after
the sixth one, there's a large Publix plaza that goes all the way
up to Pine Ridge Road. So -- but then you take 13th Street -- or
13th Ave itself, and you look at that corner that's in question,
and you look at that corner, and you go -- from that corner you
go south down the west side of Collier Boulevard, you do not hit
another residential property until you get to Cedar Hammock
Boulevard entrance, which is south of Davis Boulevard.
So when you talk about consistency -- if I didn't know what
that was zoned, if I had no clue, I was just a layman and I had
100 other people like me in buses and you started at 13th Street
South and we drove south looking to our right and we
asked -- and everybody, I think -- probably 99 percent of the
people on the bus would say, why is that one grassy lot there?
It doesn't conform to everything else on the side of the road as
you travel south.
So in a way, in reality, if you look at it, that is, like, the
start of the commercial property. That particular lot is the start
of the commercial property that extends south on Collier
Boulevard. That is the last piece of green grass until you get to
Cedar Hammock Boulevard, which is actually a gated entrance
into a residential community, which is south of Davis
October 10, 2023
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Boulevard, which is below I-75. So -- you know, I'm just
looking at it this way, perspective.
And what Mr. Bosi's talking about, you know, I don't know
if that -- personally, I would say that it's useful for residential
property because the market dictates if somebody's going to
purchase something or not, you know.
And if they have the opportunity to purchase a house that's
not under high-tension power lines, I would assume they
wouldn't [sic]. They would purchase something else.
I live in one of the communities that was identified with a
FP&L power plant which sits well outside of the boundary of
our community, which is a wall, which there's landscaping and a
buffer. I jog in the morning down that street that is on the other
side of it. I don't even know it's there. So you're kind of
comparing two things that aren't the same where you have this is
surrounded by a six-lane highway to the east, a power plant to
the south, and a power plant to the west. So we have to take
that into consideration. We're not really comparing apples and
apples here.
So, you know, I initially was not great with the size of this
building, but when they told me that they were moving part of
the building in the northeastern corner, which creates a larger
setback, and, you know, some of the artist's drawings showing
it's up against 13th and Collier, you know, that being removed
now, you're creating a much larger buffer to where there's
actually a residential street with the extra landscaping and with
preserve in between there.
You know, I thought that would reduce more square
footage when they said they were taking it off, because I thought
that was a great idea. I didn't know it was still about 171,000
square feet, but the footprint of the building, which I kind of
October 10, 2023
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pointed out, we're not talking about the mall, which is one level,
you know, Waterside Shops, which covers a large mass of
ground. You know, it's stacked. So there's -- your square
footage comes into play.
And with all the setbacks and the extra setbacks that they're
providing, which I just heard from our staff, the footprint on the
actual 5.5 acres is not that vast spread out. It's actually being
compressed now down to a smaller portion, the southern
portion, which is closest to the actual power plant.
So, I mean, when I look at it, in my mind, and when I have
to make a decision in looking at it, you know, reasonably or with
common sense, I don't know what else you would put there, I
mean, that would have a lower impact for traffic.
You know, I don't -- I've been a deputy in this county for
20 years. I may have responded to one storage unit break-in. I
don't know what jurisdiction that the young gentleman worked
in --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Houston.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- but I don't know what his
crime rate there was or what -- you know, but Collier
County's -- you can't compare, once again, apples to apples here.
So, you know, I can only speak from my experience and
common sense. If you asked me, I think this would work on
that space, so thank you.
MR. DAVIES: Mr. Chairman, can I please ask for a
five-minute recess?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. So let me say
something. I'm going to take some poetic license here, and it's
going to be close to -- I've got other commissioners lit up here.
Okay. Ms. Lewis has the toughest job here, and although
this is one topic to you-all, we've been in here since 9:00 a.m.,
October 10, 2023
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and we're going to be here very late with some other things that
are coming up. She's 30 minutes -- and it's not just on her. But
we're going to take a 10-minute break. This will also give you
a chance to regroup with your client, if you so desire, because
what I'm hearing up here from a few commissioners, and even
I'm feeling it myself, it's like, hey, it's this or nothing, and that
might not be the way you want to go. If that is, then, I can tell
you we're going to vote probably soon after a break, and we'll
see how it goes.
But let's take a 10-minute break. Let's come back here
at -- let's come back at 4:30 right on the nose. That gives us 12
minutes, and then that will give you a chance to talk among your
clients as well.
(A brief recess was had from 4:18 p.m. to 4:30 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you for the break.
You know, Mr. Davies, we're going to turn the podium
over to you, because there's been a lot of details flying around.
Hopefully you got a chance to speak with your client and
regroup a little bit.
So what's your -- what's your position right now?
MR. DAVIES: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I did have an opportunity to speak with my client.
Certainly appreciate comments from the community and also
from the commissioners. We do believe that we can make a
reduction to the size. There are a number of factors that go into
that and a number of consents on my client's side for the
investor group.
So I would respectfully ask for a continuance to have a bit
more time than the recess to do that and come back to you with a
reduced-size proposal.
October 10, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. What I would say is
it's a real testament to the citizens -- and we spoke to some of
them at the break -- how you packaged all of your details, how
you've met. And, really, I will say to both sides, too, to you,
Mr. Davies and to your client, we've had groups in here before
where they refuse to meet with the applicant, the NIM
was -- took two minutes because everybody walked out. I
mean, you see Andrew meeting with you several times and you
both agreeing to meet.
We've met groups in here where people have refused to do
that. So there's a lot of discussion here. You heard a little bit
more from the citizens than just, you know, maybe a little bit
smaller. So, you know, we'll leave that on you.
Some of the things I had written down before you asked for
this continuance, and some of them have been answered, but one
of the big changes you made was basically sealing off 3rd [sic]
Avenue, right, with significant landscape so that -- would that
have been an entrance that you would have used for
construction, and then it would have been sealed off after? I'm
just curious as to that answer.
MR. DAVIES: That was the original access point on 13th,
so not just for construction, but --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right. But then when it was
changed, that the access point would then be on Collier and 13th
would be where all the landscape would be, would that
landscape come after and you would have been using that 13th
Avenue for a lot of --
MR. DAVIES: No, that's not the intent. The intent's to
use the access point on 951.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I mean, having said
that, does any other commissioners have any -- you know, and
October 10, 2023
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it's really -- Commissioner Saunders, I'll go to you, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I did want to -- I do
have a comment for you. I did want to mention one thing that
Mr. Bosi said that I just want to take a little bit of exception to,
if you'd come on up for just a quick second. You were talking
about the residences on six-lane divided highways, and you said,
not in any way, shape, or form is that residential. And we've
got, I'd say, probably hundreds of miles of four-lane divided
highway with residences on them.
And, so, you almost made it sound like if you're on a
four-lane divided highway, well, that's prime area for
commercial. And I just wanted to make sure I understood what
you were saying. Now, I know --
MR. BOSI: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- there's a power
plant -- or a FPL facility there, and maybe that with the six-lane
highway. But you were just focusing on the six-lane highway,
and I think that's an incorrect statement. And I just wanted to
get your --
MR. BOSI: And maybe I didn't put it within the context.
The combination of two FP&L substations and a six-lane
divided highway, to me, doesn't lend itself to favorable
conditions for residential.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Understood. I just
wanted to get that --
MR. BOSI: But -- just a sidenote, a sidenote, when you're
walking down the sidewalk on a six-lane divided highway, you'd
much rather be walking on a four- or a two-lane divided
highway in terms of --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'd rather be walking on
the beach, but that's another story.
October 10, 2023
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MR. BOSI: Yes, yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, in terms
of a continuance, I think there's not any other proposal that's
being made right now. There's just going to be a request for a
continuance so that they can go back and huddle and figure out
what concessions they might make.
So I'm going to just say I support that. Petitioner has, I
think, an absolute right to have a continuance to work out things.
That's -- but I want to make sure that whatever you come up
with, that there's some interaction with the neighborhood,
because I do want to hear at least from one or two spokesmen
from the neighborhood on anything you come up with so that
there's not going to be a perception that you're going to go work
out something and come back to us and they're not going to have
an opportunity to review it.
So I just want to make sure that there is that contact and
that opportunity. And I don't think we should drag it out very
long. You've got a neighborhood that's been living with this
concern for a long time, and I think they deserve to have it
finalized one way or the other.
But I have no objection to it being continued.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Make a motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What I was going to -- what I
wanted to add is to the citizens, was a very similar thing. The
applicant does have a right to not force a vote now and go back
to the drawing board, but continue to stay engaged as you have
been. I think that's why we've got an applicant that's willing to
go back and speak with you. So this isn't the time to get silent.
And then I would say to the County Manager, also agree
with Commissioner Saunders. This is a hot topic.
Everybody's engaged. Let's not have this get kicked. You
October 10, 2023
Page 213
know, this one should have a sense of urgency when we add it
into the agenda. So as we make up the agenda and we feel the
applicant is ready, this one should come back, you know, sooner
than later so that we can make a -- we can make a final decision
on it.
MR. KLATZKOW: Do you want to do a continuance
with a date-certain or not?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't think we have to
decide that today, unless --
MR. KLATZKOW: It's for advertising purposes is why I
raise that.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, you have to
advertise that if you don't do a date-certain.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Let's do a date-certain.
How long do you need?
MR. DAVIES: I'm just trying to think about the schedule.
I mean, I don't -- two weeks, four weeks. I mean, whatever
works for you-all and the County Manager's Office.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: A month?
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, right next to --
MS. LERTCH: Could I say something?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, ma'am. Public comment
is closed, but thanks, Pat.
Go ahead.
MS. LERTCH: I just had something I wanted to show
you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. No, ma'am.
MS. PATTERSON: Next agenda I believe we have
scheduled Ascend, which is going to have probably a lot of
public comment, so just thinking about balancing out if we want
to go to the first meeting in -- or the meeting in November
October 10, 2023
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maybe the appropriate time to go to make sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That's what I was thinking,
November 14th. Does that sound right?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Could I make a --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: You know, we've
closed the public hearing, but we're continuing this for these
negotiations. I would ask that the neighborhood designate a
person to respond to whatever is presented as opposed to trying
to open up the public hearing again because -- and, of course, is
it Mr. LaGarde? Am I saying that right?
MR. LaGARDE: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Certainly were
tremendous speakers. Your son [sic] gave a great presentation.
MR. LaGARDE: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And so I would suggest
that one or two people make a presentation, not open this up to
everyone.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Start all over, yeah. Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you want to make a
motion?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: County Manager, what do
you think, November 14th?
MS. PATTERSON: Well, so the applicants will be out of
the country on that date. The Ascend petition is definitely
going to have a lot of participation; however, if this is largely
worked out, we could look at it in the next two weeks.
Otherwise, you're looking at December, and that's kind of the
two choices, so at the --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Pick a date-certain.
COMMISSIONER HALL: It's before Ascend.
October 10, 2023
Page 215
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Is Ascend on
October 24th?
MS. PATTERSON: It is.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That's our next meeting,
right?
MS. PATTERSON: It is.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, we've done big things
before. I mean, nobody here is -- we can stay late, you know.
I mean, so I think we go on the 24th, unless I hear some
objection.
So Ascend's big. We've got -- we had something big
before this morning in District 2. We've got two more big
things after this. So unless somebody's got an objection, I think
October 24th would be the date. And I think, as Commissioner
Saunders was saying, we're already at the 95 percent discussion.
We're not looking to start this all over. We're looking to sort of
conclude it on the 24th.
Commissioner Saunders, what do you think, sir?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No, I think the 24th
would be fine. Just make sure that there's contact with the
neighborhood so that they can respond -- be prepared to respond
to whatever you will present.
MR. FRENCH: Commissioners, I apologize. I hate to be
the fly in the ointment. I just spoke with the owner. They're
asking if we wouldn't mind bringing this back at our first
meeting in December. That way it gives them and the
community an ample amount of time to work through these
issues, and we still believe that if they can work this out, it may
be lighter -- a lighter presentation, or at least a lighter petition.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So that's
December 12th.
October 10, 2023
Page 216
MR. KLATZKOW: If we're going to December 12th, the
petitioner's going to have to readvertise.
MR. FRENCH: I just wanted to say it's fine.
MR. KLATZKOW: Is that fine?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: They've got time.
MR. KLATZKOW: No, it's fine.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Any objections from the --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Burt, do you want to
make the motion?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, why
don't you make the motion.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Then I'll make a motion
to continue this until December, was it 14th --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: 12th.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- December 12th, and
part of the condition of continuing it is that you're going to put
together whatever your proposal is and make sure the
neighborhood knows about it. The neighborhood folks will
designate one or two people. It won't be -- you won't be limited
to three minutes. You'll be able to respond fully, but just a
couple representatives from the community. So I'll make that
motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll second it, and we'll pick
up where we left off here. So we've got a motion from
Commissioner Saunders to continue it. I'm sorry, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My only comment is
they don't have to negotiate with Mrs. Lertch.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Smaller handbag next
meeting.
Okay. So I've got a motion from Commissioner Saunders,
a second from Commissioner LoCastro to continue it until
October 10, 2023
Page 217
December 12th. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
See you on the 12th.
MR. DAVIES: Thank you, Commissioners.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we'll make a staff
member available also for those meetings should they want that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, while we clear out
the room here, we would be moving to 11C, which is a
Conservation Collier item, but it probably makes more sense to
take 11D.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right. Okay. Let's wait till
everybody clears out.
And if we could have everybody clear out of the room,
because we're not done, even though you are. We have some
big projects that are coming up.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If you want to show
that to us now while everybody's --
MS. LERTCH: This is all we ask. We just want this.
That's all we ask.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Now, we need the
citizens -- this has concluded, so we asked everybody to please
exit.
Concluded for the day, yes, sir.
October 10, 2023
Page 218
If we could ask everybody to please exit. Gentlemen in
the back.
Okay. County Manager, I think you were about to say to
go to 11D made the most sense.
MS. PATTERSON: We are, because that way we'll
take -- the last two items are Conservation Collier. We'll
just -- we'll take those two together.
Item #11D
RECOMMENDATION TO CONSIDER TERMINATION OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY PUBLIC LIBRARY SYSTEM’S ANNUAL
MEMBERSHIP WITH THE AMERICAN LIBRARY
ASSOCIATION AND RESPECTIVE DIVISIONS. (TANYA
WILLIAMS, PUBLIC SERVICES DEPARTMENT HEAD) (ALL
DISTRICTS) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS –
APPROVED
So let's take 11D, which is a recommendation to consider
termination of the Collier County Public Library system's annual
membership with the American Library Association and
respective divisions.
Ms. Tanya Williams, your department head for Public
Services, is here to present.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'd just -- to set the table
here -- and we spoke about this at our last meeting, obviously,
just informally to present the issue.
You know, it initially came to me from a couple of citizens.
It actually wasn't an organization. It was a couple of citizens, to
include a city council member on Marco Island, and then I
October 10, 2023
Page 219
immediately met with Ms. Patterson and said, I thought this was
a heavy enough issue to add to our agenda, which we did. And
then I think over time, then we had an organization in the county
step forward and other commissioners started hearing about it.
But we talked about it quite a bit ago, actually, that this sounded
like something that we would want to address.
So, Ms. Williams, why don't we turn it over to you and
have you give us an update on our membership in the ALA.
MS. WILLIAMS: For public record, my name is Tanya
Williams, Public Services Department head.
I updated the PowerPoint that I presented at the workshop
last Tuesday for members of the public that were not available
or were not here for that. I do have an updated presentation.
I'd be happy to go through the few slides that I have. Pretty
much, it is just a reiteration of what you have in your executive
summary packet.
So just very quickly for everyone's edification, the Collier
County Public Library is a member of the American Library
Association. We have been for several years. With that
membership, we are also members of two of their divisions, the
Public Library Association and then United for Libraries, which
has done so on behalf of our library advisory board as well as it
assists the Friends of the Collier County Library.
Our annual membership for 2023 was just shy of $1,600.
We're projecting that membership for 2024 would be just a little
bit more than that. Membership is based on the estimate
population of the county in which we serve, and through our
membership we do access professional resources as well as
publications and tools. Staff have access to professional
training and development opportunities and continuing
education. This nets us on annual savings of about $2,000 by
October 10, 2023
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being a member.
Specifically, we get a 50 percent and above reduction in
conference registration rates, and we get anywhere from a 10 to
15 percent reduction in any professional materials or online
courses that we may access.
Bottom line, net fiscal impact -- net cost of terminating our
ALA membership would be at a net cost of about $366 annually.
These funds are budgeted in your library division cost centers
within the General Fund 0001.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And you're saying that
because that's what would finish out this calendar year?
MS. WILLIAMS: That's what would finish out between
what our membership costs and then the annual savings.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. WILLIAMS: So just for continued reinforcement,
current Florida trends, based on the recent events, the Florida
Department of State Division of Library and Information
Services is not a member of ALA. Beginning with their current
grant cycle, the current legislative year, the Department of State
will not accept any library services and technology grants that
have projects associated with the ALA.
We don't -- we, your library system, do not generally apply
for LSTA grants that would include the ALA. The closest
association would be SWFLN, which is your Southwest Florida
Library Network.
Currently, you've got two county systems that have
canceled their ALA memberships most recently, and that is
Citrus County and Hernando County. There are a few other
counties that are contemplating canceling their membership but
as of -- to date you just have two.
So presented before you today was the recommendation
October 10, 2023
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through executive summary to consider termination of the
Collier County Public Library systems' annual membership with
the American Library Association and the ALA divisions of the
Public Library Association as well as United for Libraries.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, do we have any
public speakers for this?
MR. MILLER: Yes, we do, Mr. Chair. We have five.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's hear from our
public speakers.
MR. MILLER: Your first speaker is Jamie Merchant.
She'll be followed by Joy White. Ms. Merchant's been ceded
three additional minutes from Dot Hall, who's right there. She
will have six minutes.
MS. MERCHANT: Good afternoon -- hello. Good
afternoon. Jamie Merchant. The rest of my team had to leave.
We had an event that started at 5, so I'm going to do my best to
get as much information out as I possibly can.
Last week one of you asked about the leadership role. Is it
the leader, or is it the organization as a whole? So we've dug
into that.
And Ms. Drabinski is the current ALA president. All
presidents serve for a one-year term. So she will be gone in
2025, but she will still wield power on the board as the
immediate past president.
The most important is the fact that she was elected by the
board because she represents their values. They knew about her
self-proclaimed Marxist lesbian leanings and her emphasis on
queering the catalog, which are all publicly documented. That's
not just me saying that out of hate, and they elected her not in
spite but because of that.
The new president elect is Cindy Hohl, I believe, Hohl,
October 10, 2023
Page 222
Howell, I'm not sure, who will start next July and serve until
2025, and she is the current treasurer of the Freedom to Read
Foundation which celebrates sexually explicit LGBT books
targeting children by pushing the narrative that efforts to keep
them off school library shelves are a form of censorship that
should be resisted.
It's the group behind the banned book list, which the ALA
uses to depict concerned parents -- excuse me -- as enemies of
the freedom of speech. And not only does the Freedom to Read
Foundation smear parental right advocates as would-be censors,
it actually goes to court to fight parents who object to these
pornographic materials being made available to schoolchildren.
So this is a much bigger problem than one person.
Ms. Drabinski is just a symbol.
Additionally, last week the term "banned books" was
mentioned by the presenter and, just for the record, I rebuke that
term. If books were banned, they would be completely
inaccessible; zero access. The banned books that continue to be
referenced by this organization and people in support of this
organization -- the books have been removed from government
schools because of obscene material. To Kill a Mockingbird is
still very much available in public libraries as well as
government schools.
Sorry. I lost my place.
I believe there was one organization that is missing from
your letter. It's the Florida chapter of the American Library
Association. That was in Keith's notes. Since he's not here,
maybe get -- if somebody could get with him to make sure that
all organizations are listed.
Additionally, many organizations around the state, Florida
Citizens Alliance, Christian Family Coalition, Moms for
October 10, 2023
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America, Moms for Liberty, Florida Legislative Committee,
Defend Florida, Republican Liberty Caucus, and Florida
Republican Assembly, we have all partnered together to conduct
a statewide effort to encourage all Florida counties to withdraw
their membership.
Currently, Citrus and Hernando are the only two. Their
fees are minimal. Collier, on a much larger scale, is the first
one that we've seen have this come across as an agenda item
where your fee is a thousand-plus dollars. This will set a
precedent for the larger counties, and we simply encourage
you-all to withdraw your membership. And like I said last
week, while this does not -- it just puts a Band-Aid on the issue.
The books are still very much available in your public libraries
which, again, it's the bigger problem. How do we protect the
innocence of children from accidently stumbling upon this
material while also protecting the parental rights of those who
see no issue with this?
So I do encourage you to get with your library staff to
figure out some sort of solution.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
MS. MERCHANT: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next -- pardon me. Your next
speaker is Joy White. She'll be followed by having -- oh, I'm
having a hard time. Is it Jason --
MR. BEAL: Jason Beal.
MR. MILLER: Beal. Thank you, sir.
MS. WHITE: Hi. I actually had something else to say,
but after hearing the previous comments, I've got to change it.
I, myself, I have an individual membership at the American
Library Association because I work with St. Ann Catholic
School library, and I have found them -- everything that she just
October 10, 2023
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said to characterize that organization, I've never encountered
that. I have found it to be so helpful in my bringing back this
library.
I mean, I have students now coming in and finding books
they want to read. I mean, their reading scores are going up
now all because of the education and the forums and the
webinars that I've done through the American Library
Association. I mean, they've been supporting libraries and
librarians for over a hundred years.
And I just -- I don't -- I don't see any -- I don't -- I'm sorry, I
just -- I personally have used it, and that's just not true what she
was saying, and I'm appalled right now, I'm sorry. But it is very
helpful. It's very educational. It's insightful.
I mean, I think even during COVID, I mean, they -- right
away they had helped us find practices to put in place to deal
with that, and where are we going to get that now? A lot of
professions have an organization that they go to for education.
You know, lawyers have one to go to, doctors, accountants. So
do we as librarians.
And I'm at the St. Ann Catholic School, and I use it. So do
you -- doesn't that say enough right there, that that's just not
true? And to be honest with you, I've been here all day, and I
left to go pick up my kids from school and take them to the eye
doctor, and I just took them home to my mom, and, you know, I
was just -- they've never had their eyes dilated before, so I was
like -- I was going to stay with them. They physically pushed
me out the door because they're like, Mom, this is important.
And I was like, yeah, you're right. And these are my kids.
And you guys need to consider that, because we're all your
constituents. And I think that's all I'm going to say right now.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
October 10, 2023
Page 225
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'd like to just ask her a
couple questions, if I might.
MS. WHITE: Certainly, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: You're at the St. Agnes
School.
MS. WHITE: St. Ann Catholic School.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Oh, St. Ann. I'm sorry.
MS. WHITE: Yes. No, St. Agnes, that's just the church.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: St. Ann. And how
long have you been there?
MS. WHITE: Oh, let's see. Well, my kids have been
there for six years, and I've been there for about two now.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. And you -- are
you the librarian, is that what you said, or you --
MS. WHITE: Yeah, I work with the -- yes, me, and I have
an assistant there that helps me, and we've been -- we've gone
through -- what's also been helpful is it's been neglected for a
few years, and now that -- since I am a librarian, or was a
librarian before I gave birth to twins and I stayed home with
them, I have gone in, and through the ALA, I've been able to
find out how to update our cataloging system, because, I mean,
you don't know about the different vendors. Where are you
going to find that information? Well, there's a lot of education
on the different ones and how to -- where to go purchase your
books and then how to -- you know, having been out of the
game for a few years, it was invaluable.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And so part of the
reason that this is being brought to us is because of the, I guess,
political views, personal views of some of the leadership. Has
October 10, 2023
Page 226
there been any -- any interaction in the last couple years, and
especially this year, with the new leadership there that indicates
any change in their philosophies or --
MS. WHITE: You know, when that woman was elected, I
remember reading about that, so I don't remember -- I don't even
know if it was on Facebook or something, and I remember my
thought was, oh, that was a dumb thing to Tweet. And I
believe -- you can double-check, but I believe she even said,
like, I shouldn't have done that. And, you know, one person
isn't representative of an organization.
And as a librarian, I mean, my graduate degree, I mean,
we're trained to look at the needs of our community. Who's
coming -- what do they want to look at, what -- and we want to
present them with the items that they want so that they see that
this is an institution that includes them, that they want to come
in and utilize. I mean, it's a public library. Everybody's
welcome.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Have you been to any
of their events, and what about your colleagues in other
libraries? Have you-all talked about this, or do other librarian
use those services?
MS. WHITE: Oh, my gosh.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: What's your experience
with other folks?
MS. WHITE: Yes, yes. And that's why -- as I said, I
had -- I had stopped working for about eight years because I was
raising twins, and we -- I mean, just as a patron of the library,
we were there all the time. My kids -- still, we go there all the
time.
It's -- they love to read, and they love going to the library
programs for the kids. And my mother, who's, you know, 86,
October 10, 2023
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she's always reading -- and she's actually found through some of,
like, the book discussions -- like, there are books that have been
introduced to her, and she's like, I never would have checked
that book out before, but it was wonderful, you know. I mean,
it was -- that's the whole thing is just to -- the thirst for
knowledge.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: What I was trying to
find out, though --
MS. WHITE: Yeah, sure.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- is other colleagues,
other librarians, do you know what their experience has been
with this organization?
MS. WHITE: It's the same thing. That's where I got the
COVID thing. I know I was home with my kids for that, but
during COVID when the ALA quickly got out, you know,
practices on what to do with the books and how to handle
checkouts and how to handle -- I mean, like the stores are doing,
come and pick up your -- I mean, all that kind of stuff, and that
was all already on the website, so you didn't have to, you know,
recreate anything. They got you -- they did what they're
supposed to be doing for us.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
MS. WHITE: Sure. Thank you, guys.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jason Beal. He'll be
followed by Monica Rawn.
MR. BEAL: Hi, good afternoon.
My first encounter with ALA actually was this year at the
Lely High School, when I walked into the Lely High School,
and I proceeded to see, Have You Seen Us? This is a list that
they were asking the children and saying, hey, go to our
October 10, 2023
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ala.org/bannedbooks.com. Read these books that are being
banned for free rights reasons.
If you look at the deception here, on their poster they show
Gone with the Wind, Invisible Man, books that we're familiar
with as classics. When you go to the actual website, they do
not list them as banned books. These are challenged books.
And then you go to the actual directory of ALA instructing the
schools about what they should do, and they literally say, this is
how we're going to get the books that the schools do not allow
because of the pornography, because of the queerness, because
of what they're actually talking about in these books. And this
is a backdoor that we can get our children to read these books.
And these books are one, Queer -- Gender Queer, A
Memoir. All of them are LGBTQ plus, supposed explicit
sexual. I think we all saw the hearings here a couple weeks ago
in D.C. That is what these books are. That All Boys Aren't
Blue, the one that you heard in Congress about insert your cock
in my mouth; I can't wait to have you, this is in our school on a
poster asking our children to go read it, okay.
It's still in our school. I was there last week. In fact,
when I bought it up against the school, they were upset about it.
They're upset because I said, what is with all the LGBQ queer
stuff and the wearing of the pins and everything else, and why
do we still have this? And why do I go into the guidance
counselor and I see "I read banned books"?
This is a Marxist organization now. The leader says that.
I would like to read something that Pam had sent me earlier
today. I believe you're all familiar with her.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, all's I will -- all's I will
ask is that you just watch the language. So I don't know what
you're about to read --
October 10, 2023
Page 229
MR. BEAL: Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't repeat
anything that was not said in Congress.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, in here --
MR. BEAL: And which this was directly quoted from --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's a low standard.
MR. BEAL: -- quoted from that book.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's a very low
standard with some of the --
MR. BEAL: It is a low standard.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We're a higher standard.
MR. BEAL: But I hope everybody here is shocked that
that's what the ALA is recommending our children to read.
And then they go farther to say, we need these books in
our -- not only our teenage hands, in our children's hands. They
need to be reading this in elementary school. They need to be
reading this in high school. No, this is grooming. The first
thing a groomer does, it exposes the children to pornography.
Two things to desensitize them.
And you know how I know this? I was groomed as a
child. My sister was groomed as a child. And then they do
deceptive things like, oh, it's only Gone with the Wind. Parents
are like, oh, that's okay. It's the ALA. It's American
association -- Library Association. It must be good.
Oh, look at the poster. Nothing wrong there as the
children -- as we're walking through the school, unless you
actually go to the banned books website, and then you see what
it actually is. There's not one book like that listed on there.
And they're not called banned books. They're called challenged
books. They're challenged books because they're challenged on
getting this pornography, which literally is pornography -- this
type of language used to be sold just in sex shops. You had to
October 10, 2023
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go to your Penthouse, your forums and everything, to get
anything that was -- resembled this language.
Now not only is it in our Collier County schools, it's in our
libraries, and now when we banned it from there -- because there
is no repercussions for those teachers going out there and
saying, hey, kids, read this. No, we asked them to tear it down.
I went to the Collier County public school board, and they asked
them to tear it down. Well, there's no repercussion, and then
they went ahead, and they put it back up.
Okay. So Pam sent me this. I would like to read this.
She could not be here today. One second. This was -- my
name is Dr. Pam Cunningham. I am in today to urge you to
vote yes on this Agenda Item 11D, which I [sic] will terminate
the relationship between Collier County and the American
Library Association under the leadership of Emily Drabinski.
As you may know, my family and I are avid patrons of the
Collier County libraries. When we used to print our library
receipts, they would often be longer than I am because we loved
to take advantage of the good books of Collier. We are on a
first name basis with many of our library staff, and I miss when
they are off on vacation.
However, our children are getting older. My husband and
I find the process of navigating our libraries more challenging.
We see libraries as a place -- for place for peaceful acquisition
of knowledge in our society. This is critical as a cornerstone of
free society and educated people. We look to book collections
and our libraries as tools of education, but we are careful
nowadays because many of the books that we found are tools of
indoctrination rather than education, and they're bringing it in
our schools.
This brings me to the new ALF president, Ms. Drabinski,
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who stated that libraries need to be a site of socialist
organization. She stated that the ALA needs to make trouble,
the kind of trouble that matters. She says that plans to tackle
process issues facing librarians, including preparing librarians
for climate change, consequences, ensuring collections of
diverse [sic], hiring lawyers for libraries, et cetera, all to get this
material in children's hands.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, please sum up.
MR. BEAL: I'm finishing her letter.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But you have --
MR. BEAL: We must support our Collier County libraries
as a foundation of education and keep them free from left-wing
political extremism such as the foundation of today, ALA.
Many of the US towns have already recognized the ALA
ideology of the ALA and carries a rejection [sic].
In doing so, the doors for the alternative library
organizations, such as World Libraries Organization, which
exposes the return of libraries through institutions based in
goodness and faith.
Please forward with yes votes on Agenda 11D. Thank
you, gentlemen, for your proactive work on this issue.
This is pornography. This should not be in the hands of
children, and it should definitely not be in our public libraries.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your final speaker on this item is Monica
Rawn.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Is she here?
MR. MILLER: Apparently I don't have -- is Monica not
here? Apparently Monica's not here.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So that's our --
MR. MILLER: That's everybody.
October 10, 2023
Page 232
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ms. Williams, I want to just
ask you a question. I know the conferences that we, you know,
are eligible for for the ALA. Do you know, have we gone to
any in the past year or two? Do we frequent those, or, you
know -- with our library leadership. Are you aware?
MS. WILLIAMS: Within the past year, I'm going to defer
to my library director.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Not since COVID.
MS. WILLIAMS: Not since prior pandemic. Generally,
in the past, prior to the pandemic.
Public Library Association conferences every two years.
We were more interested in sending -- obviously, being a public
library, of sending representation and staff to the Public Library
Association conferences. In the off-year, we would attend the
American Library Association, and it would be, generally
speaking, geared toward talking with vendors when we're
getting ready to go out to RFP for new software, new services,
new resources. It is a huge, vast tool for us in going to one
location and being able to talk with vendors within the public
library profession.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And if there was a conference
like that and we weren't an ALA member, we're still able to go.
We just don't -- we just pay a higher price?
MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, you are correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm going to make a
motion that we terminate our membership.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll second.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So I've got a motion
by Commissioner McDaniel.
October 10, 2023
Page 233
COMMISSIONER HALL: Four seconds.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll go with Commissioner
Saunders. Motion by Commissioner McDaniel. I've got a
second by Commissioner Saunders. And just to clarify, there
was a lot of misinformation out there. We're not defunding the
ALA. We don't have that authority. This is all just about our
membership, which is about to expire at the end of this year.
So what we're deciding to do is to expire it immediately and
probably not renew it unless we hear something back from you
where you wanted us to reconsider our vote.
But I have a motion by Commissioner McDaniel, second
by Commissioner Saunders. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Passes unanimously.
(Applause.)
MS. WILLIAMS: Thank you.
Item #11C
RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE AN AGREEMENT FOR
SALE AND PURCHASE WITH (1) MICHELLE GUTH-BEACH,
AS TRUSTEE OF THE LYNN AND ESTHER WILSON
REVOCABLE LIVING TRUST (“WILSON TRUST”); (2), MARY
L. HACKMANN, AS TRUSTEE OF THE CHARLES W.
HACKMANN AND MARY L. HACKMANN REVOCABLE
October 10, 2023
Page 234
LIVING TRUST (“HACKMANN TRUST”); AND (3) PATRICK
JOHN DIBALA AND NANCY GLORIA WOOD, AS CO-
TRUSTEES OF THE DIBALA WOOD TRUST (“DIBALA WOOD
TRUST”) UNDER THE CONSERVATION COLLIER LAND
ACQUISITION PROGRAM, AT A COST NOT TO EXCEED
$369,900 (JAIME COOK, DEVELOPMENT REVIEW DIVISION
DIRECTOR). (DISTRICT 5) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – APPROVED
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Next, 11C and 9D.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, Commissioner. That brings us
to Item 11C. This is a recommendation to approve an
agreement for sale and purchase with, one, Michelle
Guth-Beach, as trustee of the Lynn and Esther Wilson
Revocable Living Trust; two, Mary L. Hackmann, as trustee of
the Charles W. Hackmann and Mary L. Hackmann Revocable
Living Trust; and, three, Patrick John Dibala and Nancy Gloria
Wood, as Co-Trustees of the Dibala Wood Trust under the
Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Program at a cost not to
exceed $369,900.
Ms. Jaime Cook, Development Review division director, is
here to present or answer questions.
MS. COOK: Good afternoon. Jaime Cook, your director
of Development Review again.
You have three properties for your consideration for
purchase agreements today. The first, the Hackmann Trust,
which is part of the Panther Walk Preserve area, was approved
under the Cycle 10 Active Acquisition List in January of 2022.
The other two properties, the Wilson Trust and the Dibala
Wood Trust, were approved as part of the Cycle 11B Active
October 10, 2023
Page 235
Acquisition List, which was approved by this commission in
February of 2023.
So as we discussed before, the Panther Walk Preserve is
located in the Northern Golden Gate Estates and protects the
Horse Pen Strand area, which promotes -- protects and promotes
drainage and floodwater attenuation in the Golden Gate Estates
area. It does provide high-quality habitat for listed species,
including wading birds, the Florida Panther, and the Florida
Black Bear. It also provides wildlife corridor connection to
CREW lands as well as private conservation lands both to the
north of Immokalee Road as well as to the west in the area
known as the Immokalee Road Rural Village in the Rural Fringe
Mixed-Use District.
So the Hackmann Trust parcel is 2.73 acres. You can see
it's located towards the southwestern portion shown in yellow on
the map. It is freshwater marsh with hydric soils.
The purchase price of $63,000 is 90 percent of the
appraised value of the property. And, Commissioner Kowal,
going back to your request, the property taxes for 2022 were a
little over $366 on this property.
And it is important to note that when conservation does buy
these lands, just with -- as with any other purchase of land in the
county, Conservation Collier does pay the taxes for the first year
that they own the property.
The next parcel, the Wilson Trust, is within Winchester
Head. Similarly to Panther Walk, this area of Collier County,
which is also in the Northern Golden Gate Estates, provides
floodplain storage for the surrounding area and is critical to the
modeling for stormwater management and has been an area of
interest for the South Florida Water Management District as
well as Stormwater Management for protecting. It also
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provides listed species habitat, including for the wading birds
and the Florida panther.
The Wilson Trust property, which is along the eastern
boundary of Winchester Head, is 1.59 acres of cypress and
marsh habitat. The purchase price of $39,800 is 100 percent of
the appraised value of the property, and the 2022 property taxes
were a little over $438.
This parcel connects existing Conservation Collier lands, so
it kind of fills in a gap between properties that Conservation
Collier already owns within the Winchester Head Preserve.
And the third property is within the Gore Preserve located
along DeSoto Boulevard just north of I-75. The Gore Preserve
provides habitat connectivity for wildlife both to RLSA lands
and the panther refuge to its east as well as Rural Fringe
Mixed-Use District sending lands, the North Belle Meade
Preserve to the east, and Picayune Strand to the south.
It provides habitat for listed species, including the panther
and bonneted bat, and it does contain native plant communities,
including wetlands and uplands.
The Dibala Wood Trust property is actually three parcels
consisting of a little over 18 acres of forested -- forested and
shrub wetlands. The purchase price of $261,300 is 95 percent
of the appraised value of the property.
At your -- at the last Board meeting at the end of
September, you actually approved the purchase agreement for
the one outlined in yellow right next to these three, so it will
provide connectivity to a property we've previously purchased.
Overall, these three properties will net 22.6 acres to
Conservation Collier. The estimated management costs for the
first five years are a little over $40,000, which would come from
the maintenance trust fund, and the total purchase price for all
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three of these properties is $369,900.
So staff's recommendation is to approve these three
purchase agreements and acquire the properties as part of the
Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Program at a cost not to
exceed $369,900.
And with that, I'll take any questions that you have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do we have any questions?
We have public comment, too, I see that. How many speakers?
MR. MILLER: One.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's go to our public
comment, and we can always ask Ms. Cook some questions.
MR. MILLER: Your public comment is Brad Cornell.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What a shocker.
MR. MILLER: Sir, if you could find your way to one of
the podiums.
MR. CORNELL: I'm looking, I'm looking.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You've been here all day, too.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Are we charging him rent?
MR. CORNELL: This is a long day.
So Brad Cornell on behalf of Audubon Western Everglades
and Audubon Florida.
So we're very supportive of these three parcels. And I
only wanted to comment -- make a couple comments about
these. All three of these are in Golden Gate Estates. These are
examples of these multi-parcel strategies of reassembling super
fragmented Golden Gate Estates resources that are really, really
important for both wildlife, for our water resources, and for the
Golden Gate Estates communities, for its safety and for its
well-being and sustainability.
So that would be mitigating catastrophic wildfire risk, flood
protection, water quality, and keeping those wells in good
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condition for water supply, especially in years where we haven't
had as much rain, like this year. So it's a real win as we put all
these back together.
And I just want to make one last comment about the Bob
Gore purchase. So at the last CCLAC meeting, the last
advisory committee meeting, there was some footage shared
from the fStop Foundation, which has some cameras under
the -- what is it? I can't remember. One of the canals -- Miller
Canal, I think it is, where they're showing all the wildlife; bears,
panthers, turkeys, alligators, everything, otters, that are moving
back and forth between North Belle Meade and North Golden
Gate Estates and the Picayune Strand, and they're moving back
and forth also between the panther refuge and our North Belle
Meade Preserve.
So this is a really important connection in terms of wildlife,
and it works north and south, too, going underneath I-75, which
you would think would be a death trap and has been until FDOT
starting putting these ledges underneath where the cats and the
wildlife can walk.
It works, and this is part of making it work. Thanks very
much for your support.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'd like to make a motion to
approve.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I have a second by
Commissioner McDaniel.
And I just want to say, contrary to what's been maybe
published by some, Conservation Collier isn't dead. We didn't
slash it. We haven't killed it. And today we actually made a
lot of really -- all the decisions we've made on Conservation
Collier were very positive today.
October 10, 2023
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And I'll echo that it's always a positive thing when we see
citizens that accept a little less than the appraised value. I think
it was, like, $20,000 there. Some parcels that you're bringing to
us for consideration are, like, $22,000.
So, you know, we said in a meeting a long time ago, if we
sort of trim the edges on these appraisal offers, we might be able
to acquire some additional parcels with the money that we've
been saving, and I think we've seen that here just in a short
amount of time.
So I have motion to approve. I have a second by
Commissioner McDaniel. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MS. COOK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
Item #9D
RECOMMENDATION THAT THE BOARD ADOPT AN
AMENDMENT TO THE CONSERVATION COLLIER
ORDINANCE THAT EXPRESSLY AUTHORIZES THE BOARD
TO TRANSFER FUNDS FROM THE CONSERVATION
COLLIER ACQUISITION TRUST FUND AND THE
October 10, 2023
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CONSERVATION COLLIER MANAGEMENT TRUST FUND
FOR ANY OTHER COUNTY PURPOSE DEEMED TO BE IN
THE BEST INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC BY MAJORITY VOTE
OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. (ALL
DISTRICTS) ORDINANCE 2023-47: - MOTION TO ADOPT BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL –ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioner, that brings us to
Item 9D. This is a recommendation that the Board adopt an
amendment to the Conservation Collier ordinance that expressly
authorizes the Board to transfer funds from the Conservation
Collier Acquisition Trust Fund and the Conservation Collier
Management Trust Fund for any other county purpose deemed
to be in the best interest of the public by majority vote of the
Board of County Commissioners.
I'll hand it over to County Attorney Klatzkow to begin this
conversation.
MR. KLATZKOW: Commissioners, the proposed
amendment to the Conservation Collier ordinance expressly
gives you the power to transfer funds both within the two trust
funds and also outside the trust funds. This ordinance mirrors
what the Board did during its second budget hearing and puts
the public on notice that the Board has this -- indeed, has this
power, which I believe is an implicit power anyway.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Okay. We've got
public comment. How many speakers, sir?
MR. MILLER: This time we have eight.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We'll go to public
comment.
MR. MILLER: Your first speaker is, let me see if I can
October 10, 2023
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read this, Brad Cornell, and he will be followed by Carson
McEachern. I'll ask the speakers to line up at both podiums.
Thank you.
MR. CORNELL: Thank you.
Brad Cornell, again, Audubon Western Everglades and
Audubon Florida.
Audubon recommends that the Board of County
Commissioners not amend the Conservation Collier ordinance in
order to assure adequate funding for expected acquisitions in
Fiscal Year '24 and to continue with the land management
strategy pursued successfully for 20 years. That is a permanent
land management trust fund that generates interest used for the
long-term management of these lands annually. Without
responsible annual management, these properties' resources will
degrade and even pose fire, flooding, and exotic infestation
threats to citizens around them. This wastes vital public
resources and is unwise.
The sweep of nearly $40 million from this trust fund, the
Management Trust Fund, will cripple this management
responsibility. That trust fund also serves as a de facto
emergency reserve for the county such as when Hurricane Irma
hit, and it helped pay for our recovery after that hurricane, and
then it was paid back after that. The county should retain these
trust funds.
My second comment is that there are currently almost
$20 million of pending contracts, expected contracts and likely
Cycle 12A purchases in Fiscal Year '24. In addition, there will
be an unknown number of properties for Cycle 12B in response
to today's target protection area mailing approval, and that's
likely going to be at least 5 to $10 million, if not more.
There also is a 2,200-acre property in Immokalee whose
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owner is very interested in selling to Conservation Collier and
some other departments in the county. That property includes a
large portion of the wetland slough that feeds into Lake Trafford
and is estimated to cost between 20 and $23 million.
There isn't enough funding in fiscal year -- in Fiscal Year
'24 for all of these acquisitions, which total almost $40 million
alone for this coming year.
Finally, Audubon is very encouraged by what -- the Board's
recent action on September 26th to unanimously approve a
motion to improve Conservation Collier and streamline its main
goals of buying environmentally critical lands and managing
them in perpetuity. This is the real measure of success for
Conservation Collier, the acreages protected and restored, the
number of imperiled species protected, and the water resources
protected for generations to come.
Audubon wants to work with you and your staff on those
improvements; ideas like buying properties as they're evaluated,
rather than once or twice a year, or using strategic consultants to
speed up that acquisition process.
Again, Audubon Western Everglades and Audubon Florida
urge you to keep the ordinance as it is, not amend it, and move
forward with creating ways to improve this immensely popular
and essential green infrastructure program that benefits all
Collier County citizens.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
MR. CORNELL: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker, Carson McEachern.
He'll be followed by Stephany Carr. Mr. McEachern has been
ceded additional time from Jeanene Jewitt, who is in the back of
the room.
Sir, you'll have six minutes.
October 10, 2023
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MR. McEACHERN: Good afternoon.
MR. MILLER: Sir, could you take a step closer to the
microphone, please. Thank you.
MR. McEACHERN: Good afternoon, Chairman LoCastro
and commissioners. I'm Carson McEachern. Hopefully each
of you received the email I sent you on October 7th at 5:35 p.m.
regarding the previously levied, collected, and segregated funds
under Ordinance No. 2002-63 as most recently amended by
Ordinance No. 2019-03 as to Conservation Collier.
The gist of my email is that I do not believe that you have
the tax authority or the legal right to retroactively change the
above-mentioned ordinances to utilize for general purposes
Conservation Collier's funds that currently are in segregated
accounts.
The basis of my argument is that the ordinance created two
express trusts, being an acquisition trust and a management
trust. Section 6.2 and 7.1 of the ordinances are very clear that
these funds shall be deposited in separate and segregated
accounts -- trust funds of the county to be used solely for the
authorized purposes set forth herein.
Florida Statute 518.10, definition of fiduciary would
include the county and would require the county to comply with
Chapter 518, investment of fiduciary funds.
Under Florida Statute 518.13, it addresses authority of a
court to permit deviation from terms of the instrument creating
trusts. According to -- I believe the Circuit Court would be the
proper authority to determine if the county has the fiduciary
authority to invade segregated trust funds.
We have 12 years of precedent administering these funds in
separate and segregated trust funds. The funds should remain
segregated until such time as a court of proper jurisdiction
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determines otherwise.
The ordinances even cover the situation that if there are
insufficient uncommitted funds in the Acquisition Fund, then the
funds are recommended for transfer to the Management Trust
Fund, not back to the General Fund of the county.
The authorized purposes are limited to acquisition of lands
and then the management of the acquired lands. There is no
general-purpose language in the ordinances. The ordinances
are very clear in 8.6.B that the goals and primary criteria of
Conservation Collier may not be modified except by countywide
referendum. The attempt of the Board of County
Commissioners to expand the ordinance for the purpose deemed
to be in the best interest of the public by majority vote of the
Board of County Commissioners radically expands the goals and
primary criteria of Conservation Collier and is in violation of the
ordinance requiring a countywide referendum.
There is case law that if a statute is clear and unambiguous,
then you don't look beyond that. This means that you would
not look to implicit powers that the county may have. There's
an Attorney General Opinion that the creating ordinance must
create, in the ordinance, the language it needs to address as to
the levying of taxes. The ordinances are clear on their face that
the taxes levied are only for Conservation Collier, not the
general purpose of the county.
The first 10 years now known as carryover funds, as well as
2022 and 2023 taxes, were noticed under a separate individual
line item, then they were levied and collected and segregated
under the ordinances as they now stand before any further
amendment. As to these funds, I do not believe the county has
the tax authority to retroactively change the special purposes for
which those taxes were collected to general purposes. If under
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the guise of this ordinance subsequent taxes are collected, then
possibly these taxes may be used for general purposes, but the
county cannot take the existing segregated trust funds for
general purposes.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Our next speaker is Stephany Carr. She'll
be followed by --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let's just take -- I want to ask
the County Attorney something. So the last speaker said very
definitive, black and white, yes and no type of thing. So,
County Attorney, you're our legal counsel. What is your
response to what you just heard?
MR. KLATZKOW: The item before you is the
amendment of the ordinance. Should the amendment be
adopted, then the Board will have the express right to do what
the Board did at the second budget hearing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you, sir.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Stephany Carr.
She'll be followed by Diane Preston-Moore.
MS. CARR: With the exception of Commissioner
Saunders, you have betrayed our trust.
MR. MILLER: And your next speaker is Diane
Preston-Moore, and she will be followed by Andy Wells-Bean.
MS. PRESTON-MOORE: Good evening. I'm Diane
Preston-Moore, and I'm president of the League of Women
Voters of Collier County.
We appreciate all of the Board's decisions today regarding
Conservation Collier, but I'm here because the League is
concerned about this board's willingness to use money in
Conservation Collier trusts to cover a budget shortfall. I'll not
address the value of the Conservation Collier Program because
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it's clear that the voters in this county place a high value on it.
Rather, the League's concerned about breaching the
principles of good governance by failing to follow the county's
own ordinance, by changing the ordinance to justify the
Commission's actions, and by disregarding the will of the voters.
The Board's using the funds in a way that's not authorized.
The Conservation Collier implementation ordinance required
funds to be kept in a separate and segregated trust fund to be
used solely for the authorized purposes. The language of the
ordinance is clear. It's specific and limited. Money in the trust
can only be spent on transactions related to purchasing and
maintaining land associated with Conservation Collier.
Limiting words like "solely," "separate," "segregated," and
"for authorized purposes" emphasize restrictions on how funds
could be used. The ordinance doesn't contemplate that this
would become a slush fund to be used for any reason; rather, the
funds were set aside for specific limited and clearly delineated
purposes.
Now there's an amendment to change the rules under which
Conservation Collier is administered to allow the money in the
trust to be used for any other county purpose deemed to be in the
best interest of the public. Well, the public has already spoken
loud and clear about its best interests in three separate
referendums. Over a period of 18 years, Collier County voters
overwhelmingly supported setting aside tax dollars for acquiring
and preserving land. By using Conservation Collier funds to
cover other budget expenses, this board disregards the will of
the voters.
Further, changing the rules midgame to cure a decision that
was counter to the county's own law is not good governance. It
sounds like a bait and switch.
October 10, 2023
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The people of Collier County voted for Conservation
Collier and trusted that the county would manage the program
without using its funds for other purposes.
It is not the League's place to tell you how to do your job,
but we believe that you can find a way to fund the county's
programs without using Conservation Collier funds.
The people of Collier County deserve a government that's
responsive to the clearly expressed will of its voters. They
deserve good governance.
We ask that you do not approve the amendment to the
ordinance. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Unless I'm putting the wrong face to the
name, I don't believe Andy Wells-Bean is still here. He's not.
Gordon Brumwell. And I have one speaker on Zoom,
Chris Briggs. So we will -- I do believe he wants to speak.
I've tried to reach out to him. We'll come to him after
Mr. Brumwell.
MR. BRUMWELL: Hi. Gordon Brumwell, District 4.
You know that any county purpose is not what almost
60 percent in '02, 80 percent in '06, and 77 percent of the voters
in 2020 voted for. We don't need to be legal experts to know
that's not what they voted for.
About 30 percent of our county's registered voters are
Democrats. The vast majority turned out -- vast majority of all
voters turned out in 2020. So assume this 30/70 ratio held for
that election. If only every Democrat voted for Conservation
Collier, that would be just 30 percent of the voters.
Seventy-seven percent of the voters voted for Conservation
Collier. Do the math. Support for Conservation Collier is
very, very bipartisan.
I know that each of you have spoken to a few full-on
October 10, 2023
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antitaxers, and you might think they represent the voters on this
matter, but some basic statistics here. Your few conversations
cannot, statistically, give you the insight into the electorate like
the 151,000 people who voted for Conservation Collier in 2020
can. You'd have to have some huge number of conversations,
which you can't humanly have.
Those voters got lost in this conversation. So I'm just
making sure we all realize that passing this amendment, perhaps
not legally, but certainly in the voters' eyes, means the trust of
150,000 voters will be broken. So please kill the amendment so
you can maintain their trust.
Barring that, remember at the meeting that led up to this
amendment, the whole idea was considered a pause. I read
through it, and those 150,000 people, I had not seen any
allusion -- allusions to pausing, paying back, whatever. Those
150,000 people would like you to add paused and payback
language if you pass the amendment.
So, like, seriously, I know it's been a long day, some of you
are nodding off, I'm -- these 150,000 people are literally the vast
majority of voters, and they want you to discuss how to assure
us that this is a one-year pause, and any borrowed monies will
be paid back.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, we have one speaker
online, and that is Chris Bigg [sic].
Mr. [sic] Biggs, you're being prompted to unmute yourself,
if you'll do so. I see you're unmuted. Chris, you have three
minutes.
MS. BRIGGS: Thank you.
Much appreciation to all of you for your endurance. I'm a
faithful attendee of HOA meetings, but the stamina required for
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your board meetings, even with breaks, is amazing.
You must have assumed that you had the ability implicitly
to transfer funds, as you mentioned. It's obvious from previous
speakers that that may be questioned legally.
What you did is done. By the way, kudos to
Commissioner Burt Saunders who voted against taking the
money from Conservation Collier.
But your transfer of funds has caused serious concerns in
the Collier community. Do not make the situation worse. Do
not lose potential voters. I'm an independent who's been here
eight years full-time with my husband, and I have voted for the
members of the Commission. I voted for one member in
particular who represents my District 1. But if you pass this
recommendation, you basically are saying you don't care what
the voters want.
People will see your decision as even more politically
motivated. They understood the cynicals say you did it at the
September 22nd meeting as a way to ensure reelection by
putting off raising taxes prior to your upcoming -- upcoming
competition.
Many remember that the Collier County Republicans
recommended a no vote on the 2020 referendum. Many also
remember that the Board did not approve any Collier County
Conservation Collier property acquisitions on December 13th,
2022.
Please come together, all five of you, to defeat today's
resolution. It's not the promise made to the voters with the
referendums in 2002, 2006, and 2020, one that I voted in. All
three, as the others have attested, had a supermajority of voters
in favor of a tax for land acquisition and preservation.
The Conservation Collier Program got support from
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77 percent of the voters. We did not vote to give you five
representatives, forgive the terminology, a slush fund when
needed.
As voters, we voted for land acquisition and preservation
which is desperately needed for the wildlife here, as the
presence of a bear recently roaming Fifth Avenue at night
clearly demonstrates. Bears commonly roam our residential
communities now. It's only a matter of time before something
happens, a person is injured, and the bear has to be killed.
The 77 percent who voted didn't vote to give
themselves -- to give the commissioners money to use for
whatever they desired.
I had -- at the September 22nd meeting, 500 people wrote
letters or made phone calls, and I'm one of those, opposed to any
reduction of funding for Conservation Collier.
Additionally, at the meeting, 55 people lasted to the end to
address the Board expressing similar sentiment. No one even
had a thought -- because they got reassuring letters, like I did
from commissioners. No one even had a glimmer that you
would gut the Maintenance Fund to avoid raising taxes.
Please, please, all of you, remember the heritage of
Rookery Bay in 1963 when the Collier County Conservancy,
National Audubon Society, Nature Conservancy galvanized
community support that resulted in the purchase of 3,362 acres
of land that would otherwise be destroyed.
Please respect the 77 percent of Collier County voters and,
trust me, I've never missed an election, so I'll be voting in the
next one, so will my husband, who voted that
Collier -- Conservation Collier be solely used for land
acquisition and preservation, not anything a majority of the
Board might think is good.
October 10, 2023
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Thank you for listening.
MR. MILLER: That is all our public speakers, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, I have some
questions for staff. Jaime Cook, maybe Chris, if you can hustle
up here as well.
I just -- I want a little history, if I may. And if we were to
pass this amendment to the ordinance, how much money is left
in Conservation Collier both in acquisition and perpetual -- or
not perpetual, escrow for maintenance?
MS. COOK: I'm going to let Chris answer that question.
He's got the final numbers.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And then
you -- while he's giving me those answers, you give me, as best
as you can, the estimate as to the last three to five years average
acquisitions expended and ongoing maintenance for the last
three to five years.
MR. JOHNSON: Good afternoon, Commissioners. For
the record, Chris Johnson, your director of Corporate, Financial,
and Management Services.
Did you want the fund balances or the actual acquisition
dollars that were budgeted this year? I'll give the fund
balances.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. JOHNSON: The fund balance includes the transfers,
but the fund balance in 172, which is our acquisition fund, is
$51 million. Of that, 20 -- excuse me. Give me one second
here -- of that, 26.9 million is set aside for acquisitions this year.
As far as the Maintenance Fund goes, the fund balance is
50,154,000, and 10 million -- around 10,100,000 is set aside for
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the maintenance reserve.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So plus/minus
37 million --
MR. JOHNSON: Thirty-seven, 38.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- between the two
funds.
MR. JOHNSON: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MS. COOK: With regards to your question, maintenance
is about 1.4 dollars -- $1.4 million a year is expended.
Active acquisitions, we have acquired -- spent
about -- sorry. I'm doing math in my head.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I see the smoke.
MS. COOK: It's late in the day, man -- about 15 million in
the last three cycles.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Per year?
MS. COOK: No. Total.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's about 5 million a
year.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Five million a year.
MS. COOK: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That was my question.
It's about 5 million a year.
MS. COOK: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And so -- and, you
know, the one speaker -- one speaker brought up the -- you
know, the discussion that I'd like to have sooner than later is
how do we repay these funds? Because I'm in agreement with
making the amendment to the ordinance to transfer the funds
and cover the -- cover the delta between the rate-neutral and
rolled-back rate that we passed, but I want to -- I want to have a
October 10, 2023
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discussion on repayment of these funds and how we can -- how
we can re-establish the funds back -- the monies back into these
accounts. So, I mean, in my little math up here, the current
fund for reserves for ongoing maintenance will cover us for
seven years at the $10 million amount, and at the previous
expenditures -- and I know there are properties that are coming
up that are more expensive, and so on and so forth, but we've
averaged 5 million a year in expenditures for the past three
years, and that leaves us close to, going forward, in excess of
five years’ worth of future purchases.
So the rationale that we've gutting Conservation Collier
doesn't hold weight with me. I think it's as healthy as -- not
necessarily as could be, but it is -- it is certainly in good shape.
So thank you for that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got everybody lit
up here. I'm going to go -- Commissioner Saunders is next,
and, then, Commissioner Hall, sir, you're on deck.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
And, Commissioner McDaniel, you've hit on an area that I
wanted to raise a few questions about, and so I ultimately will
pose a question to my colleagues here on the Board.
We certainly can make an argument that there are sufficient
funds within the program right now to get us through 2024.
That's the argument everybody's making.
Now, that doesn't take into account some very substantial
acquisitions that our committee is looking at, but let's just set
that aside for a moment. I think it's a foregone conclusion that
this ordinance is going to pass. It will be a 4-1 vote, but it will
pass. But the question -- the concern that I have, the real
concern that I have is something that you raised, and that is, how
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do you begin to restore the funds into Conservation Collier?
Well, that becomes a matter of, will the Board tonight, each
of you, make a commitment that in the 2025 budget that .224
mills that is now set aside for Conservation Collier will actually
go into Conservation Collier. If you make that commitment
and you honor it, then we have an ongoing program. If you're
not willing to make that commitment and your position will be
we may still reduce the amount going into Conservation Collier,
then that program is in jeopardy.
So that's the question I would ask you. The rolled-back
millage rate for Conservation Collier is .224 mills. Will you
commit today to making sure that in our next budget cycle .224
mills will fully go into Conservation Collier and stay there?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: One of the reasons why I
think -- you know, and I'll just jump out here -- is the reason
why I think we could do that -- I mean, saying, you know,
commit tonight, you know, okay, but hear me out a little bit.
We gave ourselves a lot of homework assignments of some
things that we want to do to the county budget to save money, to
spend money more wisely, to cut back on waste, and one of the
reasons why I think we'll be in a much better portion to entertain
that question is, unless we fail on all those things, unless we
bring in a consultant that doesn't do the proper work, and unless
we fail on all those areas that we promised we were going to
dive into, then -- you know, then, maybe it is a total failure.
But I think the reason why that is definitely something that
I think -- I would hope we could all commit to and it
could -- maybe it could even be healthier than that. Maybe it's
higher than .224.
But I think between now and then, all the homework
assignments that we have are going to build and improve upon
October 10, 2023
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the amount of money that we're going to have at our -- you
know, in our coffers.
So I agree with Commissioner McDaniel, I don't think
we're raiding anything. I think we were -- our job, also too, is
not to just collect funds. It's also to manage funds properly.
So I know -- and I respect, you know, citizens that have come to
the podium and reminded us what they voted for, but I also
talked to a lot of citizens that were flabbergasted that there was
this much money in the coffers, and there was only five million
a year being spent. Most citizens I talked to were shocked to
hear that. So not everybody thinks it was a black-and-white
thing.
But, you know, Commissioner Saunders, you know, to your
challenge, your statement, I'd feel comfortable committing to
that because I think that this panel, all five of us, regardless of
how we vote on this ordinance, are committed to being able -- to
rolling up our sleeves and finding the extra funds in the county
budget and also where money might be being wasted.
And if we don't do that, then -- you know, then I think we
failed across the board. So I think we've put our -- we've
backed ourselves into a wall on purpose because we're
committed to making sure that we spend taxpayer dollars
wisely; we just don't collect them blindly. And that's why I
voted the way that I have, because I think the biggest part of our
job is management of taxpayer funds and not just collection.
But I've got other commissioners lit up here. That's how I
feel about that. I actually think the challenge you throw out
there is something that I think -- I'd be surprised if we all didn't,
you know, accept that challenge.
Commissioner Hall, sir, and then Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you, Chair.
October 10, 2023
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Sure, Commissioner Saunders, I mean, it was my intent at
1:00 in the morning the other night, and it's still my intent --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It was 2:00.
COMMISSIONER HALL: It was 2:00 by the time we got
home. But I mean, it was -- that's always been the intention.
And we have the cart before the horse a little bit, and we've put
ourselves under the -- you know, behind the eight ball because
we want to take a good look and cut some expenses and get this
thing running smoothly. And with those results, I feel very
confident that we'll obtain that and fully fund Conservation
Collier.
The public perception should never be that we're trying to
get rid of it or we're doing bad governance by, you know,
borrowing some of those funds that were never going to be used.
I said the other night that I think it's actually selfish for the
Conservation Collier people to want to hold onto all of those
funds when we can't spend -- we haven't been able to spend
them appropriately, and we're trying.
So we're not defunding or we're not doing away with any
Conservation Collier Program. We're -- we fully believe in it,
are behind it, are trying our best to do what the thing is intended
to do.
But like Commissioner LoCastro said, we also are stewards
of the money, and I think that this is a responsible way to do that
in our county to get things rolling in a way that I think we'll all
be proud of and, at the same time, Conservation Collier's going
to win, and the people are going to win, the county staff's going
to win. It's going to be a win-win situation. And if you can't
understand that, I'm sorry. I'm doing my best to explain that.
But we believe in Conservation Collier, and our commitment
level to keep it rolling is very high.
October 10, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Yeah, I have to agree with Commissioner Hall. I mean,
that night at 2:00 in the morning, that marathon meeting we all
sat here through and, I believe, did the best we could in figuring
out what we needed to do moving forward, I never intended the
following year or the next tax year that we were going to -- we
were going to let it stay in -- you know, at the 2.2 or whatever.
You know, we don't know at this point.
I can't say at this point the 2.2 may even have been -- it
may have been more next time we have this budget meeting,
because that all depends on the market itself. It depends on the
market of -- the housing market here in Collier County, sales of
homes, increase in value of homes, I mean, you know, the
add-value tax. We may collect more money this year than we
anticipated to collect regardless.
So, you know, these are things we have to be faced with
later and, plus, know, the idea of streamlining and cutting where
we can and to bring us more -- into more, you know, cohesive
machine moving forward, and we are being good stewards of the
tax dollars.
You know, even at the 2.2, they're looking at making
$33 million in the next budget cycle, and, you know, that may
even be more than that because at 2.2 with -- you know, we're
collecting more value tax for a lot of homes being purchased and
built right now in our county.
You know, it's funny that, you know, we have a lot of
people stand up here and fight the fact that we -- growth and we
build homes, and, you know -- and, you know, I hate to say it,
but a percentage of some of the people I heard that night think of
Conservation Collier as, like, Berlin wall to keep people out of
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Collier County, and I don't think that's what it's supposed to be
used for, and I don't think that's the intention of it is to be used
for.
But I got that feeling from a few people -- of the, I don't
know, 72 speakers or so that we heard that night. You know,
that's -- that's not really what it's intended for. It's intended
for -- to have a true mission and to conserve, you know, our
lands and our habitats, our natural habitats, and they have places
to furish [sic] and use our water control management areas and
the sloughs and things like that that makes sense, you know.
And I think we've been targeting this, and we gave
instruction to staff to, you know, target certain areas that make
sense, you know.
I understand that the Panther Walk is -- that's a very -- we
just started trying to acquire a lot of properties in there, and
there's a lot of red in there. But just like anything else,
eventually, hopefully we'll get there with the participation of the
public.
But, you know, I looked at that number. We were looking
at $90 million sitting between those two accounts, and then I'm
getting an unfunded list from the staff saying that we can't even
afford to buy bathing suits for our lifeguards at our county pools.
And I sit over there, and I think that's very selfish of the people
that came in here and felt like we were raping this fund of
its -- you know, that we were totally shutting this thing down
and not paying any attention to it. I took insult to that, because
I think what we've been doing is efficiently offering monies.
People have been accepting less money than the assessed value.
We've been actually -- so we saved another $20,000 today. It
keeps adding up.
You know, the last couple meetings we've purchased cycles
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here that have been on the list. If you start adding the savings
up, we probably have the opportunity to buy some more
property just because of that reason, and people were against us.
People stood before us and was against that, of us negotiating
prices because they felt we should just give the assessed value,
and that's it, because that's the way we've always done it.
But guess what, it's not the way we're always going to do it,
because there are better ways to do things that are more
efficient, to make it work for all of us, and I think that's what we
did that night when we put our money back in our emergency
fund by doing what we did because, believe it or not, I can
remember Hurricane Wilma on my son's birthday,
August 25th -- a Category 5, October 20th, struck this county.
So we're not out of hurricane season yet, and we depleted our
emergency funds with Hurricane Ian. We're walking around
with $800,000 left in there that had $39 million, and it did go to
fix a lot of things that Conservation Collier believes in, that
money.
So if you think that's not just as important to have that
money back -- and I even sat up here -- and I don't know if you
could still do it. I don't know if it's legal or not, but FEMA still
owes us money.
Now, Commissioner McDaniel made a comment.
Backfilling some of this money. Maybe we won't have to use
it. If we can put the money back into FEMA -- into our
emergency fund to fill those gaps, then we don't need to put as
much in Conservation Collier. I don't know. But that's things
we have to look down the road here as we move forward.
So I pretty much said my piece, but thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And I do have a couple
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comments, but I would ask Commissioner McDaniel if he had a
position in reference to the commitment to at least do the .224
mills in our next budget cycle because I --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll go after you. I'm lit
up after you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Oh. Okay. I was
just -- again, I'll look forward to that.
We have -- the Board, a couple weeks ago, passed a motion
to direct staff to redo this program and to look at it more
creatively. And so I think we're -- I think with staff working on
that with commitments to continue the funding of this that we've
had -- we've heard tonight, I think folks that are supportive of
Conservation Collier should go away tonight with at least a bit
of optimism -- a lot of optimism that this program will continue.
This genuinely was a pause, not a process that would ultimately
result in the program disappearing. So next year we should be
getting a minimum of .224 mills, and as Commissioner
Kowal -- I think Commissioner Kowal said, maybe more, maybe
the full .225 -- .25.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: When we have the numbers
before us, we make a determination.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: At least we have a
floor, and that, I think, gives everybody -- will give everybody
some comfort.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And on the note,
specifically, with your question, Commissioner Saunders, my
goal is to say yes to that. There's a lot of information that we
need to ascertain.
I made some suggestions on our first agenda item today
that our community not look at lands that are known to be
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environmentally sensitive, just because we're not geared for
those types of purchases. I made a suggestion of additional
amendments to the ordinance to move into something that you
suggested that I really thought was a great idea, and that's
moving into easement processes as opposed to taking fee simple
ownership, which will save us money and expenses and still
give us the protection, environmentally, that we're looking to do.
Adjustments to the ordinance that currently call for the
extinguishment of property rights for lands acquired by
Conservation Collier so that those property rights, both from a
development standpoint, criterium, and/or environmental
sensitivity. The PHUs and the mitigation opportunities for
these lands that are acquired can be utilized for the benefit of our
entire county.
So -- and I think those are going to be additional benefits or
enhancements that we can do to Conservation Collier that are
going to help the program immensely.
On the specific question -- I haven't answered your
question -- I know you're sitting down there waiting for me
to -- the goal is to say yes. I want to -- and I shared that with
Meredith when we took a break there the other night at the -- at
the hearing for our budget.
The goal is to refund these monies. My decision that night
was to pause Conservation Collier and not fund it at all, and I
didn't want to do that, but by going back to rollback, we did fund
Conservation Collier with an additional $31 million. We came
into that hearing with 70 million and then put another 31- into it.
Now, borrowing, as the case may be, transferring out to
satisfy the difference between the rate-neutral and the
rolled-back rate, was a path that I felt was more plausible for us
to do and then dive deeply, as Commissioner LoCastro likes to
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say, into the budget, into the processes where we can effectuate
savings.
But there are other -- there are other dollars that we haven't
even talked about, and that is the new properties that are coming
onto our tax rolls; what are -- what our revenues are, in fact,
going to be estimated to be next year. And my goal is to not do
this twice. I said it to our senior staff that night; I don't want to
have these discussions going forward. We're going to move
hard and fast on the potential savings and the additional
revenues and replenish these funds that are being borrowed, as
we say, relocated over to cover the budget shortfalls.
A portion of these monies at the rate neutral, there was -- if
my recollection is correct, there was close to 17-, 18 million
going into the 301 fund, which is the Capital Asset Replacement
and Maintenance Fund. We're in the final stages of actually
ascertaining what that number should be, needs to be, on an
ongoing basis to support -- I don't mean to have my back to you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: No, I'm listening.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: To support the ongoing
maintenance of our -- of our asset base, close to $2 billion worth
of assets that we own both in the replacement side and,
ultimately, the capital requisite to replace those assets on an
as-needed basis when they do, in fact, require that.
So not all of these -- not all of these monies are just going
to pay for lifeguards or swimming suits at our swimming pools.
So I want the message to be heard that this is -- I don't have
any issues whatsoever in trying to kill Conservation Collier or
do anything other than utilize these funds that are there that
haven't been used in the past to offset the budget shortfalls that
we have and then replace them as quickly as possible.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Absolutely.
October 10, 2023
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, could I
ask the budget director just one quick question?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Just a quick math
problem for you. .224 mills at our current tax base would
generate how much?
MR. JOHNSON: At the current tax base, it was the
$31 million.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. That's all. I
just wanted to --
MR. JOHNSON: That's it? All right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's what -- when we
did the rolled-back rate, Commissioner Saunders, that was the
31 million that we -- at the rolled-back rate that we actually
allowed for to go into Conservation Collier.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I don't know, I'm trying to
remember myself, but I thought 31 million was what we
collected the year before.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thirty-five.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, that was this year at
the rolled-back rate.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No, I'm saying at the
rollback, they were still going to make almost a million point
five more than what we had collected the year before, even at
the .225, and we were -- if we didn't roll it back, they were going
to collect 35 million.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It was 35 million if we
stayed at rate neutral, 31 million rolled-back rate, and then we
had approximately 70 million in reserves walking into that
meeting.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. I'm going to go
October 10, 2023
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back to Commissioner Saunders' question about a pledge of
what we're going to do between now and 12 months from now,
and I'm going to say something a little more stronger and maybe
a little bit more definitive.
I actually don't think it should be our goal. I think it
should be our job. And I think that also -- and I've said before,
our job's not to just blindly collect funds, but we're -- and I hear
everything the citizens are saying. And it is a little bit
disappointing, maybe, when they haven't been in some of the
meetings that we've been in. It makes it sound like we're
arbitrarily just deciding things quickly when people say that, you
know, we raided Conservation Collier to create a slush fund. If
you actually sat in the budget meetings, there's nothing slushy
about the things that we're trying to fund in this county.
I've said before, no commissioner wakes up in the morning
figuring out how to make bad decisions and make our county
worse.
But I'll go on record saying I think it's our job. It's our
duty. Nobody was trying to slash Conservation Collier or end
it, and I think we did a lot of creative and smart things to make
sure that we spread the wealth a bit and that money didn't sit in a
fund and collect dust while other things were being hampered
significantly.
And, lastly, I'll say a lot of accusations have come in over
email and even from some speakers today that we did something
that was illegal, immoral, or unethical. We have a county
attorney that keeps us legal, moral, and ethical, and we look to
his judgment and guidance.
And so, I think he has been very clear in what we are
allowed to do. Could be unique, could be something that was
unexpected, but it's not illegal, immoral, or unethical. And I
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think the majority of us up here, the supermajority, felt that it
was the right thing to do under the circumstances of some very
challenging and difficult economic times.
But it's not lost on us what we did do and what we have
still yet to do to, you know, continue to uphold our
responsibilities as commissioners and the job that we have to do,
you know, going forward.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: With that, I'll make a
motion for approval.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion for
approval on the ordinance from -- go ahead.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. I was going to
say, just on the ordinance, just for consistency purposes, I'm
going to vote against the ordinance. Obviously, it's going to
pass, but I just, you know --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Well, we know that.
When I say "opposed?" then that's when you chime in, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Speak up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So I'll -- boy, I'll go
back to the formal way that we run this meeting. Sir, have you
ever been an elected -- no, I'm just kidding.
I've got a motion by Commissioner McDaniel on the
ordinance, I have a second by Commissioner Hall for the
ordinance as it's written. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
October 10, 2023
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes 4-1.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Ta da.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to
Item 15, staff and commission general communications.
Item 15A is public comments on general topics not on the
current or future agenda by individuals not already heard during
previous public comments in this meeting.
MR. MILLER: We have no people registered at this time.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Brad's still here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, Brad, do you
want to --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We're going to end on
a -- some people might not want to exit early. We're going to
end on a super positive note about the rock crushing lot, right?
Okay. I mean, that's my pledge to this group.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I heard there was
not -- the word "rock" was not going to be allowed to be spread
here.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It's not. There's no rock left.
So it's "the lot." It's just -- now we call it "the lot," the Santa
Barbara/Davis lot.
Ms. Cook, give us the high points of how we're making
progress and all that you and your team and everybody has done.
MS. COOK: The crushing has been completed on the site,
and the crusher has been moved off the site. It was gone as of
last Friday.
The contractor is still working on kind of condensing all of
the rebar and some of the other construction debris that was on
site so they could haul it offsite.
Commissioner, you asked a question yesterday. We did
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reach out to them. They expect that that process will take about
three weeks. So by the end of October, they should be done
with all of that.
The berms that I had mentioned last time that the Water
Management District is requiring around the preserves may take
a little bit longer because they have to move those. The District
is going to have to inspect them and sign off on them, so that
may make a little bit longer.
But the crusher is gone, and we expect the rebar and all
other debris to be offsite by the end of October.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you. All's I
would say to add -- and it goes without saying, but just for the
record -- let's continue to keep visibility on that site as
aggressively as we had so nothing reappears. Number two,
obviously it goes without saying, no more additional rock. So
if they found something at another site somewhere and they
want to just sort of sneak it in, absolutely not.
And I think we all expected that there would continue to be
work. We have work going on on lots all over Collier County,
but the main heavy lifting type of things it sounds like are
finished, and we're going to wean ourselves off of the medium
things that they're still doing.
So continue to, you know, at least give me an update, and
when I get an update from you that I think is something
substantial enough, that's when I'll suggest to you, hey, you
know, give us an update at the end of the commissioner meeting
just so everybody knows what's going on.
But a lot of hard work by a whole bunch of people, a lot of
visibility, a lot of visibility by citizens.
And the lot on Santa Barbara and Davis is looking more
like a lot, and let's ensure that it continues to move that way and
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that we keep the pressure on that -- not that they've moved a
couple pieces of equipment, now they have sort of an open
timeline. So I'm encouraged to hear you say end of October we
start to see another big muscle movement of improvement, and I
think that's encouraging.
MS. COOK: And thank you to all of you guys for your
patience and support. This definitely was a team effort, Code
Enforcement, Engineering inspection staff have been out there
every day, so much appreciation to them for all of their hard
work as well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you.
MS. COOK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: County Manager, what's
next?
Item #15C
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
MS. PATTERSON: We are to Item 15C, staff and
commission general communications. We do have a couple of
items for you.
We did speak to each of you at our one-on-ones
individually but, collectively, the Training and Manufacturing
Institute, which is one of our community priorities for surtax,
there's been a potential new piece of information that has
emerged relative to a building that was looked at in the past and
now potentially being available again.
Spoken with Dr. Ricciardelli as well as Eileen
Connolly-Keesler from the Community Foundation -- I know
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she's reached out to some of you as well -- on the possibility of
opening up conversations about that building being the ideal
setup and location for this -- for this -- for this facility.
I'm looking for at least Board nods to open that
conversation up to including being able to bring that potential
purchase to this board for their consideration. It may be a
quick-moving topic, so I want to be able to move along so that
we aren't positioned as we were a couple of years ago when it
slipped away.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, you already know you
have a strong nod from me.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. I spoke to
Dr. Ricciardelli about that. She called me a few days ago, and I
encouraged her to move forward with whatever they thought
was going to be the best vocational education facility for our
students, and it sounds like that's going to be the location.
It's going to be a little bit more expensive, but I had
encouraged Eileen as well to look for some philanthropy, which
she is doing, and for the school board to look for some funding
as well, because we have $15 million in our sales tax, and I
think this property may -- with the improvements, may exceed
that. So they're going to -- they know that they have to make
up the difference.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. So we'll move out on that
and report back when we have additional information.
Number two, we have received an inquiry from one of our
legislators about some difficulties in the Bonita/Estero area with
their boat ramps. It's going to be a number of months before
they're really up and operating, and they're having some
difficulties with some of their small charter businesses being
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able to launch.
They'd really like us to maybe lend a hand, if we can.
Now, understanding that we are not without challenges due to
Hurricane Ian, just not nearly so much as our neighbors to the
north. Wanted that for visibility for you-all in case anybody
reaches out to you. At this point in time, we're looking at
what -- at what we might be able to do to help them out because
if we -- if the shoe were on the other foot, of course, we would
hope that they would be similarly situated to help us.
So we will look at any options that we have that we may be
able to provide, and we'll bring that back to you as well for
guidance. But should you receive any calls, that's what's going
on.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I ask --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I ask, did they
specify specific requests for help or what --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes. So you know that -- since
we've talked about it a number of times -- we require the permit
to be able to launch out of our marinas. Without those permits,
folks that are out of Lee County can't launch out of our marinas.
So I think they're just asking, is there anything that could be
done. It wasn't a specific request to do a specific thing but,
rather, to look to see if there was any type of relief we might be
able to give.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We might be able to
help them by lifting the requisite for -- the permit requisite for
commercial operators and --
MS. PATTERSON: Yeah, or maybe offer a few or offer a
time period or something.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure, of course.
October 10, 2023
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MS. PATTERSON: I think we're going to talk to -- talk to
our Parks folks, talk to Lee County folks, and just see what we
can do to offer any assistance, and we'll bring -- of course,
before we do anything, we'll bring that back to you-all.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: We're going to have some
extra parking for them.
MS. PATTERSON: Yep. Well, it could be --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: A million-dollar lot.
MS. PATTERSON: It could be a race to see if their docks
are repaired before we build the parking lot. That might --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think it's a great idea
to help out, but I would be -- really would encourage you not to
eliminate the need for a license. These folks would have a
license in Bonita Springs or in Estero. And I think the issue is,
can we just honor their business license. We don't want to open
this up to anybody that doesn't have a license.
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir, and that's why we're planning
on reaching out to Lee County so that we can make sure we've
got our arms around numbers and things that we're dealing with.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm a little concerned, because
I have a lot of marinas in my district, and, of course, you've got
Caxambas that's totally basically almost fully closed; Goodland
that's busting from the seams because the Caxambas people
moved over. So, obviously, I know you're not recommending
anything.
We always want to be good stewards, but we have some
limitations of our own. I mean, I've got people in my district
that actually have all of the -- all of the permits, all of the
permissions to use our own marinas and can't or it's full, the
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parking lot's full, they're forced out.
And so it's nice to be able to do anything, but I would say
we can't do everything. And so although I feel for them up
there, we're not without, you know, issues here. And we've got
some of our own citizens that are really boxed out of our own
marinas and our boat ramps and whatnot. So I know you'll take
that into consideration, but --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- certainly, that's a concern.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And I
just -- thank you, Commissioner Saunders, for clarity. I had no
intention of waiving the permit at all. I assumed that Lee
County had requisites and we could honor those and let those
folks that are not able to use Lee County -- I had -- for the
clarity, I had no intention of lifting the ban on the permits for us.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
It's -- to me it sounds like this is just kind of -- because of
this particular representative who represents a part of our county
also now, it sounds like he's just looking for help for that Bonita,
kind of, area there that --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir, that's what he indicated.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So we're not talking all of
Lee County.
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. So I think it's just
limited to --
MS. PATTERSON: Southern Lee County.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- the southern portion right
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there.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Could I --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Intermingling.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- ask a question?
In some of the private developments that are on the coast,
do they have boat ramps for their residents in some of these? I
assume that there would be.
MS. PATTERSON: In Lee County?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No, in Collier County.
MS. PATTERSON: Oh, yes, there are places that have
private --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Maybe it would be a
good idea to reach out to some of the privately run facilities and
see if they can also help, because I'm sure that they would be
willing to --
MS. PATTERSON: Maybe.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- at least think about it.
MS. PATTERSON: We can -- we'll ask. We'll turn over
all the options that are out there to be able to see what we can do
because, again, we're not in a perfect situation ourselves. We
have a bit of a deficit of boat launch as well, so...
And lastly is just refresh the conversation on a consultant to
start the budget conversation with us. We view this as a
multiyear effort, so what we start this year may grow into a
larger effort in follow-on years but, at minimum, we really
believe that we need to bring somebody on that is going to take
a look at the budget, meet with key stakeholders, which includes
all of you, our constitutional officers, and others, members of
the public that have participated in this process. We definitely
need somebody that has familiarity with local government
October 10, 2023
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because, otherwise, it's going to be -- it's a straight-up learning
curve, and we're not positioned time-wise where that's going to
be the most efficient.
Because we've committed to you that we're reversing this
process a little bit, and we'll be back in front of you in January
with a workshop to talk about the strategic plan and the AUIR as
well as how those things inform the budget policy before we
develop budget policy, we would like this person to be on board
as soon as possible.
A couple suggestions of places that we could go, at least as
a starting place, are -- universities do often have centers for
government and finance. That would be one place. So that's
potentially FGCU, Florida State, FIU, FAU. We could look at
each of those.
Additionally, Florida Association of Counties does have a
number of connections to folks that were former county
managers, budget directors, and others that are deployed out to
provide assistance to local governments. I imagine that the
League of Cities is the same.
And, lastly, the ICMA is the International County/City
Managers Association, does the same type of thing, people with
specific expertise that can come into the counties and give a
hand.
The reason I'm saying this is we do have procurement rules,
so even if we were all to put our heads together and put together
a list of individuals, there are certain ways we can do things and
certain ways that we can't without other things. And to get into
a long procurement type of situation is not going to get us to our
goal of really having a meaningful conversation in January.
So our suggestion would be to look one of -- either to one
of the academic institutions or to one of those other groups that I
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mentioned for this preliminary work, and then we can explore,
as this starts to evolve, if we need to bring on additional
resources.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I am not opposed to bringing
in the universities or whatever, but I would like -- in my mind,
that's going to be last resort.
I'm fully focused and intentional on trying to find someone
very worthwhile. We've got resources out to Manatee County.
They just recently started their zero-based budget process with a
third-party consultant. I've reached out to Commissioner Mike
Rahn there for his -- not his advice, but his experience with them
for what they're doing.
As far as the procurement process, if we can come up with
three or four very experienced people that I think that we would
be confident in that us, as a commissioner board, we could look
at that as -- let me put it this way. My intentions are to have
this in place well before January. So that ball is rolling.
I can't -- I wish I had more to report on it. As I get
more -- I don't mind taking the lead on it at all. And I've got
feelers out there in the community, and I've got people that I
trust that would have the best intentions for the county, and once
we get that list, I'll bring that list forward as fast as I can get it.
But as far as the -- as far as the -- if we have to use
administrative staff of universities for some advisory roles or,
you know, some things to get us rolling in the right direction,
I'm not opposed to that at all, but I don't want to lean on them.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: As soon as he calls on
me, I'll talk.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: What are you doing
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down there? Are you making dinner plans?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No. I'm over here calling on
you-all.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. We just -- we
have to be careful that we don't get caught in our own
procurement rules.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I understand that. I've talked
to Mr. Klatzkow.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: In going to -- going to
the agencies that our County Manager's suggesting alleviates us
of that, at least on the --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I understand.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- infancy stage.
And my question is, how quickly are you -- are you going
to be able to -- because we don't want to hear about these entities
in January at the workshop. We want to hear -- are you going
to be able to get us an update, like, every meeting as to how your
progress is going with FGCU and -- I mean, you know, the
Florida Association of Counties and that sort of thing?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. As soon as you-all give me
the nod, I'll come back at the next meeting to give you some
options that could start that give you a couple names, and we
can say if we want it to be FAC, ICMA, FGCU. We'll give you
the best of what we can get out of those. They may just be the
person that gets us to January and looks over our shoulder as we
start to develop policy. In the meantime, we could be bringing
on more robust consulting help.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure.
MS. PATTERSON: What -- I think we all are in the same
place. I don't want to be having this conversation with you in
January when you look at us and say, why didn't you bring
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some -- at least somebody on to help.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and that
predominately was my -- that predominately was my question.
I just --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We're all in agreement
that we want help in some form or format, and your suggestion
certainly is worthy, but we don't want to get caught in our own
rules at the same time.
MS. PATTERSON: Well, help may build on help. So we
may just start out with a little guidance from one of our -- one of
our groups that assists us with different things, and then we take
additional steps to bring on, again, like I said, more robust help
or longer-term help. This is a very big budget, so it's going to
come in bites.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure.
MS. PATTERSON: It's not -- you know, it's going to take
time.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There's no argument
about that, but the goal is to lean in on it --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- with assistance and
outside eyes that are familiar with government budgeting at the
same time.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And the fact that
Manatee's moving into a similar process is encouraging, but we
don't necessarily have an interlocal with them to be able to hire
their consultant that they went through a procurement process
with. So we just don't want to get caught up in being this
before we get there.
October 10, 2023
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MS. PATTERSON: Sure. And if we engaged with
somebody from Florida Association of Counties or from one of
the colleges or universities does not preclude us, if it makes
sense to bring somebody on shortly thereafter, say, the Manatee
consultant, from doing that. They most certainly can work
together or have different roles in this process. There's plenty
of work for everyone.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I believe that Hillsborough
County is also engaged in zero-based budget process as well as
maybe Hallendale city beach city. So we have some options
out there. But like I said, as long as we move forward and kick
this horse in the butt, I'm good.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm good, too. I like the
idea.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So I think, County Manager,
to answer your question, you've gotten the nod --
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- right? I think. I would
just add that I think we're all focused in a laser beam way to find
improvement when it comes to analysis of our budget. All's I
would say is let's make sure there's not too many cooks in the
kitchen. Because sometimes you've got too many people.
Everybody's trying to help and reaching out to all these different
entities and counties.
So I would say, let's make sure that this is a line item on
every single commissioner meeting going forward that we
talk -- this is always a bullet at the very end so we know we're
comparing notes. And then, of course, you're meeting regularly
with commissioners separately. Let's just make sure that we're
being completely transparent.
October 10, 2023
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So it's great that we cast a wide net, but we're talking about
really doing something on a very short timeline and really taking
action and having success. And sometimes you can cast a wide
net and do a whole lot of nothing. So let's make sure that, you
know, at some point you keep us focused, and we make sure we
don't get out of our lanes, you know, either.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So -- okay. I don't have
anybody lit up.
MS. PATTERSON: That's all I have.
County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. Just to follow up on that
conversation, this type of activity's exempt from competitive
process in Collier County.
Amy's got the ability to hire somebody without having to
go through the rigmarole of our purchasing ordinance.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. County Attorney, what's the
dollar threshold on that?
MR. KLATZKOW: There is none.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Take no prisoners.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What else? Mr. Rodriguez,
do you have anything?
MR. RONSHOLT: Just want to say thank you for your
support with the boat launching -- the boat vehicle trailer
parking spaces. If you remember a year and a half ago, I think
three, if not all five of you commissioners stated, go find some
more boat parking, and it starts with these public/private
partnerships.
In addition, Commissioner Hall, as you stated, Mr. Dick
October 10, 2023
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Corace helped this county tremendously, as you stated, but a lot
of people don't understand how much he helped, because in the
last three major hurricanes that hit here, especially this last one
with that storm surge, Dr. Yilmaz and his team, we were looking
for debris sites. And as you know, North Collier was hit the
worst with that storm surge, and we were able to reduce that
turnaround time for those vehicles to get back out into the
community to collect that debris expeditiously thanks to Dick
Corace, it was, literally, one call away. You called him, and he
said, whatever I can do to help the county.
So great partnerships, like Pelican Bay and some others
coming our way in the future. Our County Manager has
directed us to find these opportunities where they exist, and we
appreciate your support. Thank you.
MS. PATTERSON: To you, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner
Kowal, final comments.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I know I was referenced a
few times in talking about the taxable amount of these
properties, you know, directly. I appreciate it, because I did ask
and, you know, I wanted to know this moving forward. Just,
for the record, though, I mean, this is just what the face value of
these undeveloped properties are.
I mean, this is not if it was -- if it was privately owned it
would be different, and if private money was invested into it, the
tax base would be much higher. So once the government owns
it, I know we pay it the first year, then after that it's no longer an
option to collect taxes from these properties.
So I just wanted to make it clear that, you know, it's not
exact science. You know, I asked because I was -- you know, I
wanted to have a -- compare moving forward, you know,
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that -- you know, how much property Collier County owns as a
government and, you know, in relation to -- you know, we don't
have a crystal ball to say, all right, if private money did invest
and develop these properties, what would we really collect, you
know, and we don't know. We don't know.
But I appreciate, you know, letting me know the 500 here,
600 here. Keep it up. I do appreciate it.
But -- and I know I did -- I had the opportunity to speak to
Ellen also in reference to that new property that just came up
possibly for the school and the tech school, but I don't know
if -- she expressed to me -- I don't know if she expressed to
anybody else -- that it's kind of like the timeline is crucial.
We're talking, like, a 30-day window or, you know,
maybe -- you know, something like that.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You know, so I don't think
we want to drag our feet and figure out if this is an option or not
down the road.
But -- and with the budget stuff, I like everything we've
been talking up here. I mean, sooner than later we need to have
a plan and something in place, keep moving forward in the right
direction, because it's on us, you know, to be good stewards of
the tax dollars, like we said, and so we can keep a lot of these
programs running and funded in the future and run efficiently
like we should, you know, so...
You know, just like yourself, you budget your own home.
You know what you have in the bank account. You don't
budget for more than what you have or what you can spend.
So, I mean, we have to be that way also, so...
Ready for dinner?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
October 10, 2023
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I was wondering if I
could ask Brad Cornell a quick question, with the permission of
the Board.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sure.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Brad, if you would.
And this is a question for Brad and for County Attorney.
We've been talking about a lot about Conservation Collier,
and we have -- you have direction from the Board to rework the
Conservation Collier ordinances, and I'm not sure if you have
any update or any estimation as to when we might start to see a
work product from that or what we can do to help move that
along. I don't know if there's been any time, even, to delve into
it.
But this -- it's critically important that we get changes to
that ordinance as quickly as possible so we can make the
program more efficient in terms of acquiring
properties -- identifying properties and acquiring the right ones.
So that's a question for the three of you. You know, what
can we do to expedite that, and where are we?
MS. COOK: From staff's side, we have actually started
reaching out to the members of the CCLAC for days and times
that they would be available within the next few weeks or so that
we could get together. Staff would have a chance to, you know,
rereview the ordinance and see what's in there, come up with
any suggestions and be able to discuss those with the CCLAC
members. Obviously, those -- there's rules, subcommittee
meeting is public, so we would -- we would make sure that the
NGOs and other interested parties were invited as well to
provide any input.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Brad, do you have any
thoughts?
October 10, 2023
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MR. CORNELL: Sure. Brad Cornell with Audubon.
If you're asking whether you want Audubon to take over
the Conservation Collier Program and to dictate all the budget
policy, then I've got some great ideas.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No, but I know you
intend -- you're familiar with all the rules and everything, and
your input would be important.
MR. CORNELL: And we have participated in all the
meetings, and as your staff -- as Jaime Cook is saying, the
ordinance and rules committee, subcommittee, is going to be the
forum in which to bring those forward, and also your staff is
very experienced. You have staff that have been working on
this program for two decades, and so they have some great
ideas, as well as in Real Property.
And so, you know, I think we should be looking at the
process both in terms of soliciting participation, moving those
applications forward efficiently so that it doesn't have to sit
maybe for an entire year before they even get ranked. Let's find
ways to expedite that, but then let's also look at the real property
appraisal negotiation and closing process; how do we speed that
up?
And, for instance, I think that Real Property is hiring
outside consultants for doing closing, which helps with that sort
of bottleneck that -- you know, when you've -- for instance,
Cycle 10 had 40 properties right out of the gate when we first
started the program, 40 applications, and it became a real
bottleneck for the staff to work that, because they hadn't been
doing anything on that scale for 10 years for Conservation
Collier. So it was a real shock to the system.
So let's find ways to do things like that to make this more
efficient, and I guess that would be the process.
October 10, 2023
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah.
Mr. Klatzkow, any thoughts?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah, I'd probably do it a different
way, but nobody's directed me to do anything, so I'll just be
happy to work with Jaime and Brad.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, I think the Board
basically has directed staff, and that would include you, to get
this done, get -- and we don't -- there are other programs around
the state as well, so --
MR. KLATZKOW: The issue is do you want to work
through CCLAC, or do you want staff and me to come together
with something, and then when we have something, then bring it
to CCLAC? Because it's going to take forever through the
process of going through CCLAC subcommittees and
everything else.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think our staff needs
to come up with some proposals -- we can take it to CCLAC, but
I don't think we can sit back and say to the committee, "do this."
You have the staff and the capability, along with the rest of our
staff, to work up something. You've got the direction. So it's
got to come from you.
MR. KLATZKOW: I'd be happy to spearhead this.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Please. That's my
position. I don't know if the rest of the Board would agree,
but --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: (Raised hand.)
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, yeah. I'm glad
we had this conversation, because we'd be sitting here for six
months waiting for the CCLAC to come up with something, and
I didn't realize that's where we were. So, yes, you've got five
nods, I think, to --
October 10, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- take the proverbial
bull by the horns and work with our staff and CCLAC and get
this done.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Did you notice how Brad
Cornell thought we were all nodding off up here, and he tried to
take over immediately and pull everything underneath his
umbrella? Not so fast, young man.
Anything else, sir?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No, sir. That's all I
had. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: On the Conservation Collier, I
got some ideas, you know. You could use the fact that we
limited or took some of their funds -- you could send the people
in these letters, you could say, look, we have only limited funds
to work with. If you want to -- if you want us to buy your
property, you need to act now. You could turn that around and
say, we have a limited window of buying opportunity instead of
just willy-nilly whenever the seller wants to do it. You might
want to put a little time motivation on them. Just a thought.
You get the seller to pay for their closing. They'll get it
done faster than we will because they want the money.
You get the seller to pay for the appraiser. They'll get it
done faster because they want to close. So those are just my
two cents' worth on that.
But I thought today's conversations, I thought the decisions,
I loved working with you-all today. It was a good day. It
made me feel good as a commissioner, especially as it's still
kind of new. Appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, you
October 10, 2023
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don't have anything, do you?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Other than to just -- I
wouldn't recommend that the seller pay for the appraiser just
because he who pays for the appraisal gets what the appraisal is.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Gets what they want.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Made as directed
or -- made as instructed.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct. And so I do
like the seller paying the closing costs, and I think if our County
Attorney is spearheading the efforts for the adjustments to the
ordinance, we're going to -- we're going to see those things
happen in short order.
I'd really like to take it CCLAC for their input and advice
and thought processes as to what we're proposing, but I like the
fact that our staff grabbing onto it and bringing it -- then
bringing it back will be very beneficial.
That's all.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Before I make my closing
comments, Mr. French, you look like you're gearing up to say
something.
MR. FRENCH: Again, respectfully, I remind the Board
I've had it -- we've had it for four months. If you -- we always
work with the County Attorney, and we appreciate the
opportunity to do so.
I'd like the opportunity to perhaps bring you back in some
ordinances -- ordinance considerations in December. You've
asked for a number of changes, which I think we've been quick,
and I appreciate the acknowledgment, Commissioner Kowal,
and we're going to do everything we can on top of our other
work.
But we will -- we'll get that back to you. I think that you'll
October 10, 2023
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be pleased. You've trusted us in the past with affordable
housing policy, which I think we've advanced that for you.
And it's not that we want to rest on our laurels, but I think that
you've got the right team here between Ms. Cook, myself,
Mr. Bosi, Cormac, and the list goes on. You've got a bunch of
committed, dedicated professionals throughout the county,
clearly, but no more than at Growth Management, I can assure
you of that.
So we'll have this back to you in December, if you'll allow
us, and we will work with the CCLAC as well as with Brad and
Meredith and the County Attorney's Office and everyone that
we've not mentioned here. You have my word.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you.
My closing comments: County Manager, just a couple of
things to make note of maybe for a future meeting, sooner than
later. You know, in the past we've said, hey, give us an update
on the Paradise Coast Sports Complex, or we want an update
from the TDC.
So here's a couple things that I had just written down. I
think it's time for us to get an update on the Golden Gate Golf
Course, and that could be something that Commissioner
Saunders gives us. And no news is sometimes no news,
but -- and I mean that as an entity.
Anything new on the VA hospital? Probably not. I think
we've taken that to the nth degree. We've talked a little bit
about the affordable housing building, and maybe that's moved a
bit. And then First Tee golf course.
So I'm not looking for an answer. We've already gone real
long. I'm just putting it on there as, you know, something we
don't want to fall off the edge and, you know, we're asking about
this in February.
October 10, 2023
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And the second thing I wrote on here, because I don't think
it's district specific, is the rebuild of Caxambas. We talk in here
about budget and how much money we have and how much
money we don't and FEMA reimbursement. All of
the -- citizens from all of our districts use Caxambas, and it's a
main focal point of a main marina that has serious damage.
So I think it behooves us all to get an update on where we
are, where we're moving forward, what maybe some
assessments are on appraisals for the work, because it's a big
dollar figure between seawalls and the destroyed marina, the
destroyed docks, the destroyed restrooms. I mean, there's a lot
of damage out there, and, obviously, we have it barely opened
right now just to nonmotorized boats, which is basically a very
small amount. So I just throw that on there -- something sooner
than later.
And then just, lastly, my closing comments. I agree with
everything that's been said up here. Today was a really good
day for witnessing incredibly impressive citizen engagement but
also applicant and developer flexibility. You know, we had
citizens that walked in here with stickers that basically said vote
no on everything, and then they walked out of here -- because
they were flexible. They were also very communicative not
only in Commissioner Hall's district, but in Commissioner
Saunders' district with the storage unit, hearing that they met
with the applicant multiple times. I mean, I hope people that
are watching witnessed that's the way you do it. If you come in
and just say, we're saying no, we're digging our feet in and it's
no or nothing, you may not like the idea.
But -- and I'll also say to, you know, my colleagues up
here, commissioner negotiation was also well in play here. You
know, we had a -- you know, an acre and a half of a lot, then it
October 10, 2023
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turned into three acres. Now we're getting a million-dollar
check, and I think that's what it takes, and it takes all of us.
You know, a rising tide lifts all boats.
This is the first time ever, however, that I've ever heard a
citizen not want a fire station. In my district, I need a thousand
fire stations. So if they don't want the one in yours, move it to
my district. I've never heard -- never heard that before.
You know, you can always make the sirens less loud, but
saying that, you know, you don't want a fire station -- and I say
that tongue in cheek. I know what they meant.
Lastly, I just want to thank Commissioner Kowal for
starting the meeting with your comments about Israel. Even
though we dealt with a lot of big things in here, there are way
bigger things happening outside of this building, outside of our
state, and outside of our country, and all over the world.
They're not the only country that's suffering right now, but we're
seeing a lot of it, you know, very quickly, and it's extremely
horrific. And I know our thoughts and prayers go out to
everyone in that country, our local Jewish community as well,
and everybody's praying for them.
So having said that, today was another good one. Nobody
was nodding off up here, I'll go on record as saying, for sure.
Thank you. We're adjourned.
*****
October 10, 2023
Page 290
****Commissioner McDaniel moved, seconded by Commissioner
Hall and carried that the following items under the consent and
summary agendas be approved and/or adopted****
Item #16A1
RECOGNIZED PROGRAM INCOME FROM THE IMMOKALEE
CULINARY ACCELERATOR IN THE AMOUNT OF $19,130.77,
APPROPRIATE THE FUNDS TO MAINTAIN AND REPAIR
KITCHEN EQUIPMENT PURCHASED THROUGH THE UNITED
STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE (USDA) RURAL
BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT GRANT, AND AUTHORIZE ALL
NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS.
Item #16A2
RESOLUTION 2023-178: A RESOLUTION AMENDING
RESOLUTION 2008-331, RELATING TO STEWARDSHIP
SENDING AREA WITH A DESIGNATION AS “CLH SSA 14;”
APPROVING THE EXTENSION OF CERTAIN DATES TO
NOVEMBER 18, 2025, IN THE STEWARDSHIP SENDING AREA
CREDIT AGREEMENT FOR CLH SSA 14 AND THE ESCROW
AGREEMENT FOR CLH SSA 14.
Item #16A3
RESOLUTION 2023-179: A RESOLUTION AMENDING
RESOLUTION 2008-329, RELATING TO THE STEWARDSHIP
SENDING AREA WITH A DESIGNATION AS “CLH & CDC SSA
15,” APPROVING THE EXTENSION OF CERTAIN DATES TO
NOVEMBER 18, 2025, IN THE STEWARDSHIP SENDING AREA
October 10, 2023
Page 291
CREDIT AGREEMENT FOR CLH & CDC SSA 15 AND THE
ESCROW AGREEMENT FOR CLH & CDC SSA 15.
Item #16A4
ACCEPTED THE AWARD AND EXECUTE A GRANT
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE COUNTY AND THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION (FDEP)
FOR THE RESILIENT FLORIDA PLANNING GRANT
PROGRAM IN THE AMOUNT OF $46,700, EXECUTE ALL
NECESSARY FORMS, AND AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY
BUDGET AMENDMENT (FUND 1829).
Item #16B1
APPROVED AN AGREEMENT FOR THE ACQUISITION OF A
FEE SIMPLE PARCEL (PARCEL 104FEE), A TEMPORARY
CONSTRUCTION EASEMENT (PARCEL 104TCE), A
TEMPORARY DRIVEWAY RESTORATION EASEMENT
(104TDRE), AND A RIGHT OF ENTRY (104ROE), REQUIRED
FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD
(US-41 TO GOODLETTE-FRANK ROAD) WIDENING PROJECT
NO. 60199. ESTIMATED FISCAL IMPACT: $57,280.
Item #16B2
APPROVED THE SELECTION COMMITTEE’S RANKING AND
AUTHORIZE STAFF TO BEGIN CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS
WITH JACOBS ENGINEERING GROUP INC., RELATED TO
REQUEST FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES (“RPS”) NO. 23-
8103 FOR “GOLDEN GATE CITY WATER RESOURCE
October 10, 2023
Page 292
PROTECTION - RESTORATION MASTER PLAN,” AND DIRECT
STAFF TO BRING A PROPOSED AGREEMENT BACK FOR THE
BOARD’S CONSIDERATION AT A FUTURE MEETING.
Item #16B3
AUTHORIZED THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENT TO
REALLOCATE FUNDS IN THE STORMWATER CIP FUND
(3050) FOR A TOTAL AMOUNT OF $6,488,000.
Item #16B4
PROVIDED AFTER-THE-FACT APPROVAL FOR THE
SUBMITTAL OF TWO CONGESTION MANAGEMENT
PROJECT APPLICATIONS TO THE COLLIER METROPOLITAN
PLANNING ORGANIZATION FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 2030
CYCLE IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF $2,285,000.
Item #16C1
APPROVED A UTILITY AGREEMENT BETWEEN CSC FARM,
LLC (DEVELOPER), AND THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, ACTING
EX-OFFICIO AS THE GOVERNING BOARD OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY WATER SEWER DISTRICT (DISTRICT), SETTING
FORTH THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR PROVIDING
POTABLE WATER, WASTEWATER AND IRRIGATION
QUALITY WATER SERVICES WITHIN THE COLLIER ROD
AND GUN CLUB AT THE PRESERVE (THE DEVELOPMENT).
(THIS ITEM A COMPANION TO ITEMS 17A & 17B)
October 10, 2023
Page 293
Item #16C2
APPROVED AND AUTHORIZED THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN A
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT
HAZARD MITIGATION GRANT PROGRAM CONTRACT
MODIFICATION NUMBER FOUR FOR FIFTY-THREE (53)
PORTABLE GENERATORS EXTENDING THE PERIOD OF
PERFORMANCE (CONTRACT #H0419).
Item #16D1
APPROVED AND AUTHORIZED THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN
ONE (1) RELEASE OF LIEN FOR FULL PAYMENT IN THE
AMOUNT OF $11,296.25, PURSUANT TO AGREEMENT FOR
DEFERRAL OF 100% OF COLLIER COUNTY IMPACT FEES
FOR OWNER-OCCUPIED AFFORDABLE HOUSING
DWELLINGS. (GENERAL FUND 0001)
Item #16D2
APPROVED A RELEASE OF LIEN IN THE AMOUNT OF
$15,981.90 FOR FULL PAYMENT OF AN IMMOKALEE AREA
RESIDENTIAL IMPACT FEE DEFERRAL APPROVED AS PART
OF AN IMPACT FEE DEFERRAL PROGRAM FOR PROPERTIES
LOCATED WITHIN THE IMMOKALEE ENTERPRISE ZONE
Item #16D3
APPROVED AND AUTHORIZED THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN A
STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES PARTNERSHIP SPONSOR
AGREEMENT FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION ASSISTANCE WITH
October 10, 2023
Page 294
HABITAT FOR HUMANITY OF COLLIER COUNTY, INC.
(SPONSOR), AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO RELEASE
THE SPONSOR’S PROMISSORY NOTE AND MORTGAGE
FOLLOWING CONSTRUCTION AND UPON SALE TO AN
ELIGIBLE HOMEBUYER. (SHIP GRANT FUND 1053)
Item #16E1
AUTHORIZED ROUTINE AND CUSTOMARY BUDGET
AMENDMENTS APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD
BUDGET IN THE AMOUNT OF $10,759,240.49 FOR APPROVED
OPEN PURCHASE ORDERS INTO FISCAL YEAR 2024.
Item #16F1
APPROVED THE FOURTH EXTENSION AND AMENDMENT
TO INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER
COUNTY AND THE CITY OF NAPLES GOVERNING THE USE
OF CITY OF NAPLES BEACH PARKING FACILITIES AND
PARK AND RECREATION PROGRAMS EXTENDING THE
TERM TO SEPTEMBER 30, 2024.
Item #16F2
RENEW THE ANNUAL CERTIFICATE OF PUBLIC
CONVENIENCE AND NECESSITY (COPCN) FOR AMBITRANS
MEDICAL TRANSPORT, INC., TO PROVIDE CLASS 2
ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT (ALS) INTER-FACILITY
TRANSPORT AMBULANCE SERVICE FOR A PERIOD OF ONE
YEAR.
October 10, 2023
Page 295
Item #16F3
APPROVED AND AUTHORIZED THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN A
MODIFICATION NUMBER ONE TO THE FEDERALLY
FUNDED SUBGRANT PROGRAM AGREEMENT THROUGH
THE FLORIDA DIVISION OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT
(FDEM) TO EXTEND THE PERIOD OF PERFORMANCE BY SIX
MONTHS FOR THE ANNUAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT
PERFORMANCE (EMPG) GRANT G0380 AND AUTHORIZE
NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS (FUND 1833, PROJECT
33820).
Item #16F4
RESOLUTION 2023-180: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS,
CONTRIBUTIONS, OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2023-24 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE
BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES.)
Item #16F5
APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED CHANGE
ORDER NO. 1 ADDING $40,828.35 TO PURCHASE ORDER NO.
4500223989 UNDER AGREEMENT NO. 19-7592, BUILDING
AUTOMATION ENERGY MANAGEMENT SERVICES, WITH
JUICE TECHNOLOGIES, INC., D/B/A PLUG SMART, TO
REPAIR DEFECTIVE ACTUATORS ON THE AIR HANDLER
October 10, 2023
Page 296
UNITS FOR THE HVAC AND FIRE SMOKE CONTROL SYSTEM
AT THE COLLIER COUNTY COURTHOUSE ANNEX
(BUILDING L1). (PROJECT NO. 52163)
Item #16F6
APPROVED NON-STANDARD AGREEMENT # 23-037-NS,
“GOVERNMENTAL MANAGEMENT SYSTEM (“GOVMAX”)
AND AUTHORIZE EXPENDITURES THROUGH AN
EXEMPTION FROM THE COMPETITIVE PROCESS THROUGH
THE GOVMAX HOSTED APPLICATION SERVICE AND
LICENSE AGREEMENT FROM SARASOTA COUNTY
GOVERNMENT FOR FISCAL YEARS 2024 THROUGH 2029.
Item #16F7
APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGE ORDER NO. 2
ADDING SEVENTY (70) DAYS TO AGREEMENT NO. 21-7883-
ST, MAIN CAMPUS CHILLER PLANT UPGRADES, WITH O-A-
K/FLORIDA, INC., D/B/A OWEN-AMES-KIMBALL COMPANY
AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
CHANGE ORDER. (PROJECTS 50214 AND 50189)
Item #16G1
AWARDED CONSTRUCTION INVITATION TO BID (“ITB”) NO.
23-8120, “BULK AIRCRAFT HANGAR AT MARCO ISLAND
EXECUTIVE AIRPORT (“MKY”),” TO DEC CONTRACTING
GROUP, INC., IN THE AMOUNT OF $3,063,009.41, AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED
AGREEMENT.
October 10, 2023
Page 297
Item #16J1
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS APPROVED THE
USE OF $500 FROM THE CONFISCATED TRUST FUNDS TO
SUPPORT THE FLORIDA SHERIFFS YOUTH
RANCHES.
Item #16J2
RECORDED IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS IN THE
AMOUNT OF $33,995,787.99 WERE DRAWN FOR THE
PERIODS BETWEEN SEPTEMBER 14, 2023, AND SEPTEMBER
27, 2023 PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE 136.06.
Item #16J3
THE BOARD APPROVED AND DETERMINED VALID PUBLIC
PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND PURCHASING
CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF OCTOBER 4, 2023.
Item #16K1
RESOLUTION 2023-181: APPOINTED A MEMBER OF THE
AFFORDABLE HOUSING ADVISORY COMMITTEE AS A NON-
VOTING REPRESENTATIVE TO THE DEVELOPMENT
SERVICES ADVISORY COMMITTEE.
October 10, 2023
Page 298
Item #16K2
RESOLUTION 2023-182: REAPPOINT A MEMBER TO THE
GOLDEN GATE BEAUTIFICATION ADVISORY
COMMITTEE.
Item #16K3
APPROVED A STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE TOTAL
AMOUNT OF $48,500 PLUS $17,986.50 IN STATUTORY
ATTORNEY FEES, AND EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS FOR THE
TAKING OF PARCEL 1181RDUE REQUIRED FOR THE
VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60168
REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD
EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60168.
Item #16K4
APPROVED AND AUTHORIZED THE CHAIR TO EXECUTE A
SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT IN THE LAWSUIT STYLED
CYNTHEA HUMMER V. COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF
COMMISSIONERS, ET. AL., (CASE NO. 22-CA-1647), NOW
PENDING IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE TWENTIETH
JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA, FOR THE SUM OF $9,900.
Item #17A
RESOLUTION 2023-183: A RESOLUTION DESIGNATING 259.6
ACRES AS THE COLLIER ROD AND GUN CLUB AT THE
PRESERVE COMPACT RURAL DEVELOPMENT
October 10, 2023
Page 299
STEWARDSHIP RECEIVING AREA, WHICH WILL ALLOW THE
DEVELOPMENT OF A MAXIMUM OF 225 SINGLE-FAMILY
RESIDENTIAL DWELLING UNITS; A MINIMUM OF 2,250 AND
A MAXIMUM OF 5,000 SQUARE FEET OF COMMERCIAL
DEVELOPMENT AND APPROVE A CREDIT AGREEMENT
ESTABLISHING THAT 2,229 STEWARDSHIP CREDITS ARE
BEING UTILIZED BY THE DESIGNATION OF THE COLLIER
ROD AND GUN CLUB AT THE PRESERVE COMPACT RURAL
DEVELOPMENT STEWARDSHIP RECEIVING AREA; AND
PROVIDING FOR REPEAL OF RESOLUTION 85-151, A
PROVISIONAL USE FOR OIL AND GAS EXPLORATION, AND
RESOLUTION 02-87, AN EXPIRED CONDITIONAL USE. THE
SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED SOUTH OF OIL WELL
ROAD, APPROXIMATELY ½ MILE WEST OF S.R. 29 IN
SECTIONS 18, 19, 24, AND 30, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE
30 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. [PL20210002776]
(THIS ITEM A COMPANION TO ITEMS 16C1 & 17B)
Item #17B
RESOLUTION 2023-184: A RESOLUTION OF THE BOARD OF
ZONING APPEALS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
PROVIDING FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A CONDITIONAL
USE FOR A PROJECT KNOWN AS THE COLLIER ROD AND
GUN CLUB AT THE PRESERVE TO ALLOW A GOLF COURSE
AND A SPORTING AND RECREATIONAL CAMP ON
PROPERTY ZONED RURAL AGRICULTURAL (A) WITHIN THE
MOBILE HOME OVERLAY (MHO) AND RURAL LANDS
STEWARDSHIP AREA ZONING OVERLAY DISTRICT (RLSAO)
AND BIG CYPRESS AREA OF CRITICAL STATE CONCERN
SPECIAL TREATMENT OVERLAY (ACSC-ST) PURSUANT TO
October 10, 2023
Page 300
SECTIONS 2.03.01.A.1.C.17 AND 2.03.01.A.1.C.20 OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE FOR A
911.42+/- ACRE PROPERTY LOCATED SOUTH OF OIL WELL
ROAD (C.R. 858) AND WEST SIDE OF STATE ROAD 29 IN
SECTIONS 18, 19, 20, 29 AND 30, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH,
RANGE 30 EAST AND SECTIONS 23 AND 24, TOWNSHIP 48
SOUTH, RANGE 29 EAST COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA.
[PL20210002843] (THIS ITEM A COMPANION TO ITEMS 16C1
& 17A)
Item #17C
RESOLUTION 2023-185: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD,
TRANSFERS, AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2023-24 ADOPTED BUDGET.
Item #17D
ORDINANCE 2023-44: A REZONING ORDINANCE FOR THE
PFCF/NSV IMMOKALEE MPUD TO ALLOW UP TO 250
HORIZONTAL MULTIFAMILY DWELLING UNITS, 170 OF
WHICH WILL BE RESTRICTED AS AFFORDABLE, AND A 250-
STUDENT EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION CENTER, ON
50± ACRES LOCATED NORTHEAST OF THE INTERSECTION
OF WESTCLOX STREET AND CARSON ROAD IN
IMMOKALEE, IN SECTION 29, TOWNSHIP 46 SOUTH, RANGE
29 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. [PL20220004087]
Item #17E
October 10, 2023
Page 301
ORDINANCE 2023-45: A ORDINANCE REPEALING
ORDINANCE NOS. 2018-21 AND 2019-46, AS CODIFIED IN
SECTIONS 126-86 THROUGH 126-191 OF THE CODE OF LAWS
AND ORDINANCES OF COLLIER COUNTY, THE LOCAL
GOVERNMENT INFRASTRUCTURE SURTAX WHICH
IMPOSED A COUNTY-WIDE INFRASTRUCTURE SURTAX
AND ESTABLISHED THE INFRASTRUCTURE SURTAX
CITIZEN OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE WITH THE EXCEPTION
THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE SURTAX CITIZEN OVERSIGHT
COMMITTEE SHALL CONTINUE IN THE MANNER SET
FORTH IN THE ORDINANCE OR UNTIL THE BOARD DEEMS
OTHERWISE.
October 10, 2023
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 6:40 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
4j1414(
CHRIS H L, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL . KINZEL, CLERK
Attest as to Chairman's
signature only
These minutes appr ved by the Board on a a1 adi , as
presented or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.
Page 302