BCC Minutes 05/23/2023May 23, 2023
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, May 23, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present:
Chairman: Rick LoCastro
Chris Hall
Dan Kowal
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
Burt L. Saunders
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Daniel Rodriguez, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
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May 23, 2023
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Community Redevelopment Agency Board (CRAB)
Airport Authority
Agenda
Board of County Commission Chambers
Collier County Government Center
3299 Tamiami Trail East, 3rd Floor
Naples, FL 34112
May 23, 2023
9:00 AM
Commissioner Rick LoCastro, District 1; – Chair
Commissioner Chris Hall, District 2; – Vice Chair
Commissioner Burt Saunders, District 3
Commissioner Dan Kowal, District 4; – CRAB Co-Chair
Commissioner William L. McDaniel, Jr., District 5; – CRAB Co-Chair
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE
ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO AN IN-PERSON SPEAKER BY
OTHER REGISTERED SPEAKERS WHO MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME
THE SPEAKER IS HEARD. NO PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE HEARD FOR
PROCLAMATIONS, PRESENTATIONS AND PUBLIC PETITIONS.
SPEAKERS ON PRESENTATIONS ARE LIMITED TO 10 MINUTES, UNLESS
EXTENDED BY THE CHAIRMAN. ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON A
CONSENT ITEM MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO THE BOARD’S APPROVAL
OF THE DAY’S CONSENT AGENDA, WHICH IS HEARD AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE MEETING FOLLOWING THE PLEDGE OF
ALLEGIANCE.
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May 23, 2023
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON PUBLIC PETITION
MUST SUBMIT THE REQUEST IN WRITING TO THE COUNTY MANAGER
AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE MEETING. THE
REQUEST SHALL PROVIDE DETAILED INFORMATION AS TO THE
NATURE OF THE PETITION. THE PUBLIC PETITION MAY NOT INVOLVE
A MATTER ON A FUTURE BOARD AGENDA AND MUST CONCERN A
MATTER IN WHICH THE BOARD CAN TAKE ACTION. PUBLIC
PETITIONS ARE LIMITED TO A SINGLE PRESENTER, WITH A MAXIMUM
TIME OF TEN MINUTES, UNLESS EXTENDED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
SHOULD THE PETITION BE GRANTED, THE ITEM WILL BE PLACED ON A
FUTURE AGENDA FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT
ON THIS AGENDA OR A FUTURE AGENDA MUST REGISTER TO SPEAK
PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION OF THE AGENDA BEING
CALLED BY THE CHAIRMAN. SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE
MINUTES, AND NO ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO THE
SPEAKER. AT THE CHAIRMAN’S DISCRETION, THE NUMBER OF PUBLIC
SPEAKERS MAY BE LIMITED TO 5 FOR THAT MEETING.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDING PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53 AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE
BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN
ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES
MANAGEMENT DIVISION LOCATED AT 3335 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL,
SUITE 1, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112-5356, (239) 252-8380; ASSISTED
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May 23, 2023
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DIVISION.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M
1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
A. Invocation by Pastor Greg Ball, Destiny Church Naples
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of today's regular, consent and summary agenda as amended (Ex
Parte Disclosure provided by Commission members for consent agenda.)
B. March 28, 2023, BCC Meeting Minutes
C. April 25, 2023, BCC Meeting Minutes
3. AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS
A. EMPLOYEE
1) 20 YEAR ATTENDEES
a) 20 Years James Zuver - Transportation Engineering
b) 20 Years Haris Domond - Transportation Engineering
c) 20 Years Dan Summers - Bureau of Emergency Services
2) 25 YEAR ATTENDEES
3) 30 YEAR ATTENDEES
a) 30 Years Michael Patten - Road Maintenance
4) 35 YEAR ATTENDEES
B. ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS
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C. RETIREES
D. EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH
4. PROCLAMATIONS
A. Proclamation designating May 2023 as National Drug Court Month. To be
accepted by Honorable Janeice T. Martin, Presiding Judge, Collier County
Drug Court.
B. Proclamation designating May 2023 as National Foster Care Month. To be
accepted by Linda Goldfield, CEO, Youth Haven, and Naderah Salim, CEO,
Children’s Network of Southwest Florida.
C. Proclamation designating May 2023 as Trauma Awareness Month in Collier
County. To be accepted by Dr. Leslie Lascheid, member of the Regional
Advisory Committee on Trauma Services.
D. Proclamation designating May 2023 as Drowning Prevention Month in
Collier County. To be accepted by Coral Vargas, Coordinator, NCH Safe &
Healthy Children's Coalition of Collier County.
E. Proclamation designating May 21 - 27, 2023 as Emergency Medical
Services Week in Collier County. To be accepted by Tabatha Butcher, EMS
Chief, and EMS Professionals.
5. PRESENTATIONS
A. Presentation of the 2023 Florida Water Environment Association Collection
System of the Year Awards - Large Utility Category. This award is given in
recognition of outstanding Maintenance programs, regulatory compliance,
and safety and training procedures. To be accepted by Robert Von Holle,
Public Utilities Department Division Director Wastewater.
6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
7. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE CURRENT
OR FUTURE AGENDA
8. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
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9. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. This item to be heard no sooner than 10:00 AM. Recommendation to
approve and transmit to the Florida Department of Economic Opportunity a
small-scale Growth Management Plan Amendment Ordinance creating the
Airport Carlisle Mixed Use Sub-District to allow The Carlisle Assisted
Living Facility (group care, care units, nursing homes, assisted living
facilities, and continuing care retirement communities) with a maximum
0.65 Floor Area Ratio and up to 336 multi-family dwelling units, of which
76 will be rent restricted as affordable, on 27.78+/- acres located southwest
of the intersection of Orange Blossom Drive and Airport Road in Section 2,
Township 49 South, Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida. (GMPA-
PL20220001043) (Companion to item 9B) (Adoption Hearing)
B. This item to be heard no sooner than 10:00 AM. This item requires that
ex-parte disclosure be provided by Commission members. Should a hearing
be held on this item, all participants are required to be sworn in.
Recommendation to approve a rezoning Ordinance for The Haven at North
Naples MPUD to allow The Carlisle Assisted Living Facility (group care,
care units, nursing homes, assisted living facilities, and continuing care
retirement communities) with a maximum 0.65 Floor Area Ratio and up to
336 multi-family dwelling units, of which 76 will be rent restricted as
affordable, on 27.78+/- acres located southwest of the intersection of Orange
Blossom Drive and Airport Road in Section 2, Township 49 South, Range
25 East, Collier County, Florida. (PUDZ-PL20220001042) (Companion to
item 9A)
10. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
A. Recommendation to appoint the initial membership of the Coastal Storm
Risk Management Feasibility Study Ad Hoc Advisory Committee.
B. Recommendation to appoint the initial membership of the East of 951 Ad
Hoc Advisory Committee.
11. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
A. Recommendation to approve the continuation of the Collier Health Services,
Inc., Community Health Workers, to address health disparities among those
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affected by mental health and substance abuse and approve the use of
Community Development Block Grant-CV and State and Local Fiscal
Recovery Funds to support the project. (Kristi Sonntag, Community &
Human Services Division Director)
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY
A. AIRPORT
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
A. Public Comments On General Topics Not On The Current Or Future Agenda
By Individuals Not Already Heard During Previous Public Comments In
This Meeting
B. Staff Project Updates
C. Staff And Commission General Communications
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16. CONSENT AGENDA- All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the Board, that item(s) will
be removed from the Consent Agenda and considered separately.
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A. GROWTH MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve final acceptance and conveyance of the
pump station facilities that were inadvertently omitted from the
potable water and sewer final utility acceptance approved by the
Board of County Commissioners on September 14, 2021, for Abaco
Pointe Phase 1, PL20190002237.
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2) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
private roadway and drainage improvements, and acceptance of the
plat dedications, for the final plat of Winding Cypress Phase 3,
Application Number PL20170003951, and authorize the release of the
maintenance security in the amount of $596,197.27.
B. TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to authorize the necessary budget amendments to
reallocate funds within the Transportation Management Services
Department Stormwater Bond Fund 327 in the total amount of
$4,000,000.
2) Recommendation to appropriate the Collier Metropolitan Planning
Organization’s (“Collier MPO”) annual operating budget for FY
23/24 and authorize the necessary budget amendments in the amount
of $1,158,974, effective July 1, 2023.
3) Recommendation to approve a Work Order with Humiston & Moore
Engineers to provide professional engineering services for State
required Annual Monitoring of Collier County Beaches and Inlets for
2023 under Contract No. 18-7432-CZ for time and material not to
exceed $78,532.00, authorize the Chairman to execute the Work
Order and make a finding that this item promotes tourism (Fund 195,
Project No. 90536).
4) Recommendation to approve the selection committee’s ranking and
authorize staff to begin contract negotiations with Hardesty &
Hanover Construction Services, LLC, related to Request for
Professional Services (“RPS”) No. 23-8068 for “CEI Services for Stan
Gober Memorial Bridge Repair/Rehabilitation Project,” so staff can
bring a proposed agreement back for the Board’s consideration at a
future meeting. (Project No. 66066)
5) Recommendation to approve Change Order No. 1 to Professional
Services Agreement No. 20-7728, CEI Services for Veterans
Memorial Boulevard Extension - Phase I and Phase II - to Hardesty &
Hanover Construction Services, LLC, adding 60 days for inspection
services, reallocate existing funds to cover the additional inspection
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time, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached Change Order.
(Project No. 60198).
6) Recommendation to approve a Work Order with Taylor Engineering,
Inc., to provide professional engineering services for the 2024 dune
planting and exotic vegetation removal project at Barefoot,
Vanderbilt, Park Shore, Naples, and South Marco Island beaches for
Time and Materials not to exceed $57,007 under Contract No. 18-
7432-CZ, authorize the Chairman to execute the work order for the
proposed services, and make a finding that this item promotes
tourism.
7) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to execute a
Local Agency Program (LAP) Construction Agreement with the
Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) reimbursing the
County up to $1,693,376 for the construction of a 10-foot-wide multi-
use path on County Barn Rd from Rattlesnake Hammock to SR 84
(Davis Blvd.); execute a Resolution memorializing the Board’s action;
and authorize the necessary budget amendments (Project No. 60254),
FPN 438091-2-58-01.
8) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to execute a
Local Agency Program (LAP) Construction Agreement with the
Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) reimbursing the
County up to $611,727 for the construction of a 5-foot-wide sidewalk
on Vanderbilt Drive from Vanderbilt Beach Road to 109th Ave N;
execute a Resolution memorializing the Board’s action; and authorize
the necessary budget amendments (Project No. 60255), FPN 438092-
2-58-01.
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve Change Order No. 4 to Construction
Agreement No. 19-7671, “South County Water Reclamation Facility
(“SCWRF”) Reclaimed Water Storage Tank Improvements,” with
PWC Joint Venture LLC, for draw from the owner’s allowance in the
amount of $53,195.39 and additional funding in the amount of
$100,471.00, and authorize the Chairman to sign the attached change
order. (Project No. 70204).
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2) Recommendation to approve the selection committee’s ranking and
authorize staff to enter into contract negotiations with Q. Grady Minor
& Associates, P.A., related to Request for Professional Services
(“RPS”) No. 23-8060 for “Design Services for MPS 309 Force Main
to Western Interconnect,” and bring a proposed agreement back for
the Board’s consideration at a future meeting.
3) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners, Ex-
officio the Governing Board of the Collier County Water-Sewer
District direct the County Manager or her designee to advertise and
bring back for a public hearing a Resolution for future consideration
increasing Water, Wastewater, Irrigation Quality Water, and
Wholesale Potable Water User Rates by 7.07% amending Schedules
One and Two of Appendix A to Section Four of Collier County
Water-Sewer District Uniform Billing, Operating, and Regulatory
Standards Ordinance No. 2001-73, as amended, and provide the
requisite 10-day notice to utility customers per the Collier County
Water Sewer District Special Act.
D. PUBLIC SERVICES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign two
State Housing Initiative Partnership Sponsor Agreements between
Collier County and Casa Amigos EHT, LLC., in the amount of
$250,000 and Immokalee Fair Housing Alliance, Inc. in the amount
of $500,000 for construction of rental housing units in Immokalee.
(SHIP Grant Fund 791)
2) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign the
Third Amendment to the HOME Investment Partnerships Program
subrecipient agreement between Habitat for Humanity of Collier
County, Inc., and Collier County to clarify the number of HOME-
grant assisted units and extend the end date of the agreement.
(Housing Grant Fund 705)
3) Recommendation to approve a State Housing Initiative Partnership
Sponsor Agreement between Collier County and Rural
Neighborhoods, Inc. in the amount of $1,791,641 for the
administration of an Owner-Occupied Rehabilitation program,
including roof repair and replacement. (SHIP Grant Fund 791)
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E. CORPORATE BUSINESS OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to ratify Property, Casualty, Workers’
Compensation and Subrogation claim files settled and/or closed by the
Risk Management Division Director pursuant to Resolution # 2004-15
for the second quarter of FY 23.
2) Recommendation to approve the administrative report prepared by the
Procurement Services Division for disposal of property that is no
longer viable and then removal from the County’s capital asset
records and notification of revenue. (Estimated net book value of
$130.92)
F. COUNTY MANAGER OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to approve Amendment No. 18 to the Agreement
with Collier County District School Board for the Driver Education
Program extending the existing Driver’s Education funding collected
under the Dori Slosberg Driver Education Ordinance for an additional
year.
2) Recommendation to recognize accrued interest from the period
January 1, 2023 through March 31, 2023, earned by EMS County
Grant, Project No. 33655, and appropriate interest earning for a total
amount of $1,616.9.
3) Recommendation to approve an Agreement for Sale and Purchase
with: (1) Martin Joyce and Elizabeth Joyce; (2) Terri Lopez formerly
known as Terri Rodriguez; (3) Abel Chavez Martinez (4) Julio
Alberto Salgado; (5) Paulette Charles under the Conservation Collier
Land Acquisition Program, at a cost not to exceed $227,418.
4) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution approving amendments
(appropriating grants, donations, contributions, or insurance proceeds)
to the Fiscal Year 2022-23 Adopted Budget. (The budget amendments
in the attached Resolution have been reviewed and approved by the
Board of County Commissioners via separate Executive Summaries.)
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
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1) Recommendation to authorize budget amendments to recognize
revenue for Marco Island Executive Airport, in the amount of
$950,000 and for Immokalee Regional Airport, in the amount of
$390,000 to accommodate increased fuel purchases and associated
operating expenses over budgeted levels.
2) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution authorizing execution of
Amendment No. 1 AIP Grant No 3-12-0021-006-2021 with the
Federal Aviation Administration for additional funding for the
Runway 15/33 Rehabilitation and Widening at the Everglades Airpark
in the amount of $20,000 and authorize all necessary budget
amendments. Airport Grant Fund (498)
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
I. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1) To record in the minutes of the Board of County Commissioners, the
check number (or other payment method), amount, payee, and
purpose for which the referenced disbursements were drawn for the
periods between April 27, 2023 and May 10, 2023 pursuant to Florida
Statute 136.06.
2) Request that the Board approve and determine a valid public purpose
for invoices payable and purchasing card transactions as of May 17,
2023.
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1) Recommendation to appoint two members to the Bayshore/Gateway
Triangle Local Redevelopment Advisory Board.
2) Recommendation to reappoint a member to the Educational Facilities
Authority.
3) Request by the Housing Finance Authority of Collier County for
approval of a resolution approving a plan of financing involving the
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issuance by the Authority of single-family mortgage revenue bonds in
an amount not to exceed $50 million or, in the alternative, to use
volume cap allocation for mortgage credit certificate programs or for
multifamily housing for persons of low or moderate income.
4) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chair to execute a
Settlement Agreement in the lawsuit styled Collier County Board of
County Commissioners v. Elizabeth McGuire, (Case No. 23-SC-881),
now pending in the County Court of the Twentieth Judicial Circuit in
and for Collier County, Florida, for the sum of $2,102.19
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17. SUMMARY AGENDA- This section is for advertised public hearings and
must meet the following criteria: 1) A recommendation for approval from
staff; 2) Unanimous recommendation for approval by the Collier County
Planning Commission or other authorizing agencies of all members present
and voting; 3) No written or oral objections to the item received by staff, the
Collier County Planning Commission, other authorizing agencies or the
Board, prior to the commencement of the BCC meeting on which the items
are scheduled to be heard; and 4) No individuals are registered to speak in
opposition to the item. For those items which are quasi-judicial in nature, all
participants must be sworn in.
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A. This item requires ex-parte disclosure to be provided by the
Commission members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all
participants are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve a
rezoning Ordinance for the Williams Farm RPUD to allow up to 336 single
family homes on 168± acres located south of Lake Trafford Road and Little
League Road in Immokalee, in Sections 36 and 31, Township 46 South,
Ranges 28 and 29 East, Collier County, Florida. [PL20210001434]
B. This item requires that ex parte disclosure be provided by Commission
members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants are
required to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve an Ordinance
amending the Plantation Planned Unit Development by increasing the
density from 418 dwelling units to 419 dwelling units and by changing the
designation of a .74± acre parcel from Recreation Tract to Residential for a
single family residence. The subject property is .74± acres out of the 83.7±
acre PUD and located east of Santa Barbara Boulevard and south of Radio
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Road in Section 4, Township 50 South, Range 26 East, Collier County,
Florida. [PL20210000349]
C. This Item continued from the April 25, 2023, BCC Meeting. An
Ordinance of the Board of County Commissioners amending Ordinance 89-
05, as amended, the Collier County Growth Management Plan of the
unincorporated area of Collier County, Florida, relating to the Rural Fringe
Mixed Use District Restudy and specifically amending the Future Land Use
Element and the Future Land Use Map and map series to require transfer of
development rights for comprehensive plan amendments for increased
residential density in the Urban Mixed Use District and the Rural Fringe
Mixed Use District; amending the Urban Mixed Use District, Urban
Residential Fringe Sub-district to remove the density bonus cap on
Residential In-Fill and remove the requirement to use transfer of
development rights within one mile of the urban boundary; and amending
the Rural Fringe Mixed Use District of the Future Land Use Element to
change development standards and requirements, increase density on
Receiving Lands for affordable housing, add transfer of development rights
credits, add uses in Receiving Areas, and add a conditional use for recreation
in Sending Lands, and to amend development standards for rural villages;
and create the Belle Meade Hydrologic Enhancement Overlay; and to
correct the scrivener's error for the Immokalee Road Rural Village Overlay
on the Future Land Use Map; and furthermore, directing transmittal of the
adopted amendments to the Florida Department of Economic Opportunity
and providing for an effective date. [PL20200002234]
D. This item requires that ex-parte disclosure be provided by Commission
members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants are required
to be sworn in. Recommendation to approve an Ordinance amending the
Collier Boulevard Mixed Use Commerce Center Planned Unit Development
(MPUD) by increasing the maximum building height on 4.49± acres
described as Lot 2 in the Residential Tract from 35 feet to 50 feet. The
subject property is on the south side of Magnolia Pond Drive near the
southwest corner of the intersection of Collier Boulevard (C.R. 951) and
Magnolia Pond Drive in Section 34, Township 49 South, Range 26 East,
Collier County, Florida. [PL20220006374]
18. ADJOURN
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May 23, 2023
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD’S AGENDA SHOULD
BE MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER’S OFFICE AT 252-8383.
May 23, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Good morning, everyone.
AUDIENCE MEMBERS: Good morning. Good morning.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Come on. I thought we had a
good crowd here this morning. I thought we had a good crowd.
Good morning, everyone.
AUDIENCE MEMBERS: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. The first thing that I ask,
since we have a full room, cell phones on silent. No musical
numbers. Me, too. I hear you. Pipe down. I've got the -- and if
you have to have an emergency or take a call or whatever, you know,
please go out in the hall. But we've got a full schedule, and, County
Manager, I'll turn it over to you. Thank you.
Item #1A
INVOCATION AND PLEADGE OF ALLEGIANCE BY PASTOR
GREG BALL OF DESTINY CHURCH, NAPLES – INVOCATION
GIVEN
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, let's begin with our
invocation and Pledge of Allegiance. The invocation will be led by
Pastor Greg Ball of Destiny Church, Naples.
PASTOR BALL: And good morning, everybody.
AUDIENCE MEMBERS: Good morning.
PASTOR BALL: Good morning, Commissioners.
Let's bow our hearts [sic] for prayer.
Good morning, holy spirit, and thank you for this day. We ask
you to give wisdom and clarity today. Your word tells us in James
1:5, if we lack wisdom, to ask God, and, God, we ask you, the God of
wisdom, to help today.
Lord, as we gather for this meeting, we ask you to give our
May 23, 2023
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commissioners clarity so they can effectively tackle each part of
today's agenda. Reveal problem areas and show them the best
solutions that will apply. Give them eyes to see every positive
outcome, and let these favorable results and developments encourage
every heart in the room.
God, will you help them apply your wisdom as they decide
certain matters and make plans. This we ask in the mighty name of
Jesus, amen.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And we have a true superstar,
patriot, and loyal, dedicated servant to our county sitting right here at
the front row, and I ask Judge Martin to lead us in the Pledge of
Allegiance.
Ma'am.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That was really just a
smokescreen. There's seven of you that have outstanding warrants.
Ma'am, do your stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: They'll be up front first.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You're the first one, all right.
Whoever that was. Oh, you think it's up here. We've got a couple
up here? It's possible. It's possible.
County Manager?
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: All five.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Who said that? Listen, who said
that? Where's my bailiff or whoever?
Ma'am.
Item #2A
APPROVE OF TODAY’S REGULAR, CONSENT AND
May 23, 2023
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SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX PARTE
DISCLOSURE PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR
CONSENT AGENDA.) – MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL – APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED
W/CHANGES
MS. PATTERSON: Item 2, agenda and minutes. I will take
you through our brief change sheet.
The only item we have is just a note that -- Companion Items 9A
and 9B to be heard no sooner than 10:00 a.m. This is a Growth
Management Plan amendment ordinance creating the Airport Carlisle
Mixed-Use Subdistrict to allow the Carlisle assisted living facility
and rezoning ordinance for The Haven at North Naples MPUD to
allow the Carlisle assisted living facility.
Just a note, we have court reporter breaks set for 10:30 and 2:50.
With that, I'll turn it over to the County Attorney for any
changes?
MR. KLATZKOW: Thank you. No changes.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioner LoCastro and
Commissioners, any changes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Any changes, Commissioner
Kowal?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No changes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I have no changes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Negatory.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No changes. You want
disclosures as well?
May 23, 2023
Page 5
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, let's go ahead and do that.
I'm sorry.
MS. PATTERSON: Ex parte.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: On 17A, I have had meetings
and emails.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall, we'll
go back to you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: None for summary and consent for
me.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Kowal, any
disclosures?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Nothing on summary or consent.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Saunders?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I have no disclosure on
summary as well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And I have no disclosures
on summary as well either. Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: If I could get a motion to approve the
agenda.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll so move.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion. Do I
have a second?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
May 23, 2023
Page 6
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
May 23, 2023
Page 7
Item #2B
MARCH 28, 2023, BCC MEETING MINUTES MOTION TO
APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS - APPROVED AS PRESENTED
Item #2C
APRIL 25, 2023, BCC MEETING MINUTES MOTION TO
APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS - APPROVED AS PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 2B is approval of the minutes from
March 28th, 2023.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Motion to approve the
minutes?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll move to approve both
A -- B and C.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Motion to approve B and
C. Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Motion and second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MS. PATTERSON: Item 3 is awards and recognitions.
May 23, 2023
Page 8
Item #3A1
AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS – 20 YEARS – JAMES ZUVER
– TRANSPORTATION ENGINEERING – HARIS DOMOND –
TRANSPORTATION ENGINEERING – DAM SUMMERS –
BUREAU OF EMERGENCY SERVICES – MICHAEL PATTEN –
ROAD MAINTENANCE – PRESENTED
Item 3A1 are 20-year attendees. First 20 years, James Zuver,
Transportation Engineering.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It seems pretty heavy.
MR. ZUVER: A lot of years.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you for your service, sir.
MR. ZUVER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: There you go. Right there in the
center.
THE PHOTOGRAPHER: Can you move a little bit that way
for me. Perfect.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: Twenty years, Haris Domond,
Transportation Engineering.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel says he
knows you for a long time. If you'd like to make any comments
after, we'd like to hear, you know, just how much you might know.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You've got to keep our
secrets, now.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: When you have trouble with
the traffic signal, call and ask for Haris.
May 23, 2023
Page 9
MS. PATTERSON: Twenty years, Dan Summers, Bureau of
Emergency Services.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Dan, with all the hurricanes, it
feels a lot longer, right?
MR. SUMMERS: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It feels a lot longer.
MR. SUMMERS: Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: 3A, 30-year attendees.
Thirty years, Michael Patten, Road Maintenance.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: That moves us to Item 4, proclamations.
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MAY 2023, AS NATIONAL
DRUG COURT MONTH – MOTION TO ADOPT BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL – ADOPTED
Item 4A is a proclamation designating May 2023, as National
Drug Court Month. To be accepted by Honorable Janeice T. Martin,
presiding judge, Collier County Drug Court.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Judge, if you want to say anything
at the podium, it's totally up to you.
JUDGE MARTIN: Thank you, Mr. Chair and Commissioners.
I know you have a lot to do today, so I'll be very brief.
Just on behalf of members of our drug court team, members of
our drug court, some active participants as well as some alumni who
May 23, 2023
Page 10
have come back to be a part of this today, I just want to say a couple
of quick things.
The pastor this morning spoke of wisdom, solutions, positive
outcomes, hope. There you go; that's drug court. And I want to
thank you-all for your wisdom and your leadership in supporting the
solutions and the outcomes that we focus on.
I could not be more proud than to step into our public square and
stand beside the men and women who make this happen. Our
participants are your neighbors, your sons, your daughters, sisters,
brothers. They are parents, moms and dads who are working hard to
turn their lives around, reunite with their families, and become
productive members of our community.
And so welcoming them in here the way that you have really
reinforces the message that their futures are so much bigger than their
past, and their hard work is recognized and well worth it. So I thank
you for this opportunity and the honor to step in here with everybody
that we care so much about.
Thank you for your support.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Judge, I just wanted to add, I got to
serve on a committee with Judge Martin for two years. Now
Commissioner Kowal serves on that committee. Your success rate is
unbelievably impressive. And I know it takes a team, it takes a
village. Whatever, you know, the statement is, but what it takes is
leadership, and it takes caring and dedication and the hard work also
by the folks that you're trying to help who really dive in with both
feet.
So without getting into all the statistics and the metrics, every
citizen in Collier County would be impressed with the success that
you and your team have had. So we thank you for all your hard
work and that of your team.
May 23, 2023
Page 11
Thank you, ma'am.
(Applause.)
Item #4B
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MAY 2023 AS NATIONAL
FOSTER CARE MONTH - MOTION TO ADOPT BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4B is a proclamation designating
May 2023 as National Foster Care Month. To be accepted by Linda
Goldfield, CEO, Youth Haven; Denise Murphy; and Naderah Salim,
CEO, Children's Network of Southwest Florida.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Linda, if you want to say a few
words, totally up to you.
MS. GOLDFIELD: Thank you, Commissioners, for your
continued support of the foster care system in Collier County.
The State of Florida has the third-highest rate of children that
are in foster care. Together as a community, it's our responsibility to
take care of these children. Youth Haven is the only homeless
shelter in our community for children who've been remove by their
home -- from their homes by the Department of Children and Family
Services for abuse, neglect, and, oftentimes, homelessness.
The reality is children are staying with us longer and longer.
Although we are meant to be a temporary housing situation till a
more permanent one can be found, we do not have enough foster care
families in our community. Children belong in traditional families,
and I ask all of you, if you have it in your hearts, to become a foster
care parent so children can live in a traditional family. And, again,
May 23, 2023
Page 12
on behalf of our children that we serve, 45 children living on our
campus, thank you for all of your support. Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, wants
to -- sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If I could ask you a quick
question, if you wouldn't mind, just a quick question.
MS. GOLDFIELD: Sure.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: First of all, thank you for
everything that you do. But you said something that kind of stuck
out. You said that Florida had the third-highest rate?
MS. GOLDFIELD: Of children living in --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So it's not the third-highest
number, which you would expect.
MS. GOLDFIELD: Sorry. Third-highest -- I misspoke.
Third-highest number of children in foster care, yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you. I appreciate
that.
Item #4C
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MAY 2023 AS TRAUMA
AWARENESS MONTH IN COLLIER COUNTY - MOTION TO
ADOPT BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4C is a proclamation designating
May 2023 as Trauma Awareness Month in Collier County. To be
accepted by Dr. Leslie Lascheid, member of the Regional Advisory
Committee on Trauma Services.
(Applause.)
May 23, 2023
Page 13
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do you want to make some
comments?
(No response.)
Item #4D
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MAY 2023 AS DROWNING
PREVENTION MONTH IN COLLIER COUNTY - MOTION TO
ADOPT BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4D is a proclamation designating
May 2023 as Drowning Prevention Month in Collier County. To be
accepted by Coral Vargas, coordinator, NCH Safe and Healthy
Children Coalition of Collier County.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm behind Godzilla. I don't think
I need to move. I can't go anywhere.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm behind Brian Bosley.
The duck this morning is being played by Sheriff Kevin
Rambosk, if anybody was curious.
MS. VARGAS: Thank you so much, County Commissioners,
for, once again, proclaiming May to be Drowning Prevention Month.
We value our partnership, not only through this month, but
throughout the entire year.
Drowning is the leading cause of death for children between the
ages of 1 to 4 in Florida. The last two years have been the highest
recorded numbers in Florida since the Department of Children and
Families started collecting data.
But we are very fortunate here in Collier County to have, as you
May 23, 2023
Page 14
guys all saw, so many amazing partners and organizations working
together to make Collier County water safe. Collier County Parks
and Recreation have been an integral part of our water-safety and
drowning-prevention initiatives. Under the leadership of Olema
Edwards -- her team is amazing -- we were able to bring back the
duck race after it was canceled after COVID and after Hurricane Ian,
actually. And the team at Sugden Park, Michael Tulin, Phillip, and
Patricia and James Hanrahan were integral in bringing it back.
We've also been able to continue Swim Central. Thanks to the
Naples Children Education Foundation, more than 10,000 children in
over 80,000 water-safety lessons have been taught through our
partnership with Collier County Parks and Recreation, being led by
Samantha Hernandez with the Golden Gate Aquatics Facility. She
has been an integral part in Swim Central.
And we're also happy to share that all 15 life jacket loaner
stations from "Kids Don't Float. Life Jackets Do" programs have
been brought back. They were, unfortunately all destroyed during
Hurricane Ian, but because of the amazing collaboration, we've been
able to bring all 15 back, and they were placed just in time for Water
Safety Month and for the summer for families visiting our beaches
and our lake fronts.
Another amazing partner is the Department of Health of Collier
County. They just did Wear Your Life Jacket to Work Day on
Friday, and they got the Public Services Department involved, and it
was really nice seeing all the picture being shared, and they're doing
amazing stuff. And that goes for everybody who's a part of the
coalition: WAVE drowning detection systems, the U.S. Coast
Guard Auxiliary Flotillas, the NCH Healthcare System, Collier
Cares. So many people are part of this. And we thank you all,
because we couldn't do it without you. So thank you.
(Applause.)
May 23, 2023
Page 15
Item #4E
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MAY 21ST THROUGH 27TH,
2023, AS EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES WEEK IN
COLLIER COUNTY - ACCEPTED BY TABATHA BUTCHER,
EMS CHIEF, AND EMS PROFESSIONALS - MOTION TO
ADOPT BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4E is a proclamation designating
May 21st through 27th, 2023, as Emergency Medical Services Week
in Collier County. To be accepted by Tabatha Butcher, EMS chief,
and EMS professionals.
(Applause.)
CHIEF BUTCHER: For the record, Tabatha Butcher, chief of
Collier County EMS.
Thank you for this proclamation, Mr. Chair and Commissioners.
I also want to thank the County Manager and the Deputy County
Manager for their continued support to make EMS a successful team.
May 21 to 27, 2023, is the 49th Annual National EMS Week.
In 1974, President Gerald Ford authorized EMS week to celebrate
EMS practitioners and the important work that they do in our nation.
Providing emergency medical care isn't an easy job, but day
after day, EMTs and paramedics go to work with one goal in mind, to
protect the health and safety of our community. This group here is a
fraction of the dedicated professionals that truly exceed the
expectations of their patients and our community each day.
I want to thank all of them, from the team that work behind the
scenes to the boots in the field. I'm proud of them, and I'm proud to
be part of this time.
So thank you again for recognizing Collier County EMS.
May 23, 2023
Page 16
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, Chief.
(Applause.)
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to Item 5, presentations.
Item 5A is a presentation -- oh, let me stop for a second. We
need a motion to accept the proclamations.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So moved.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've got a motion and a second.
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you. Let me start again.
Item #5A
PRESENTATION OF THE 2023 FLORIDA WATER
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATION COLLECTION SYSTEM OF
THE YEAR AWARDS, LARGE UTILITY CATEGORY -
ACCEPTED BY ROBERT VON HOLLE, PUBLIC UTILITIES
DEPARTMENT DIVISION DIRECTOR, WASTEWATER –
PRESENTED
Item 5A is a presentation of the 2023 Florida Water
Environment Association Collection System of the Year Awards,
Large Utility Category. This award is given in recognition of
May 23, 2023
Page 17
outstanding maintenance programs, regulatory compliance, and
safety training procedures. To be accepted by Robert Von Holle,
Public Utilities Department Division Director, Wastewater.
(Applause.)
Item #7
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA
MS. PATTERSON: Item 7, public comments on general topics
not on the current or future agenda. Troy.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, we've got three registered speakers
at this time. Your first speaker is Garrett FX Beyrent, and he will be
followed by Susan Cone.
MR. BEYRENT: For the record, Garrett FX Beyrent.
I'm here because a policeman saved my life the other day. I
mean, it was a horrible situation. My car broke down. It was one of
those flood cars that the lady sold me on Marco Island that said it
wasn't a flood car. Anyhow, that was my third flood car. It was
broken down at the entrance to Walmart in the turn lane the day
before Mother's Day.
People were zipping by me going 90 miles an hour, and the tow
truck doesn't show up. The police cars were all over the place.
And, finally, a community service policeman pulled up and said, do
you think I could jump it? And he was, like, in the wrong lane too.
And I said, we could try.
He came around to jump it, and my daughter had already arrived
with a little teeny jumper box. It's like a battery box.
And this policeman turns around. He tries to block -- the cars
are going 75 miles an hour because it's the holiday, and everybody's
May 23, 2023
Page 18
running around like crazy people. And they missed that guy, like,
three times by three inches. And he's being careful.
He parks it on an angle, right. And he gets out with his cones,
and they're not slowing down. This guy is like -- I'm saying, you
know, you're going to get killed before they kill me, and they should
kill me first.
And he says -- he says, it's okay. He says -- I can do this, he
says. I've just got to be really careful because these people that are
coming at me are not watching. They're on their cell phones, and
they're going 75 in an air-conditioned cube. And they're just going
(indicating).
So what happens is, he actually says, I'm going to pull around in
front of you before this lady runs me over in the black BMW who's
got her phone in front of her face, and he actually pulls around in
front of me with a gigantic jumper, and he gets my car running.
And he gets in front of me and stops the traffic. And they're not
stopping. It's like Paris -- ever been there at the circle? It's insane,
right? Nobody does nothing.
In any case, I said, you know what? I'm going to actually go
before the County Commission next Tuesday, okay, and I'm going
to -- shout-out for you.
And oddly enough, 20 minutes later, I'm at Panera. This guy is
already at Panera handling a violent situation, a very bad situation.
He was defusing it. And his name -- and, of course, you can't just
call up and find out a policeman's name, so I said, give me your card.
This is his card. His name is W. Browse or Brows. His badge
number is 4616, and I want to shout out and thank him for what he
did, because my daughter would have died with me, and that would
have been a tragedy. Not because I died, but because my daughter
died.
And thank -- once again, thank you for all these community
May 23, 2023
Page 19
service guys. They handle more than just traffic. They go to
everything. They really do, and they're great guys. Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Susan Cone. And she
will be followed by Jane Schlechtweg.
MS. CONE: Good morning. My name is Susan Cone, and I'm
a volunteer with Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America,
and I am here with some of our other volunteers from our Southwest
Florida group to raise awareness about gun violence in our
community and offer a solution.
We attended the City of Naples council meeting last week to
thank the mayor and the council members for issuing a proclamation
declaring the first Friday in June National Gun Violence Awareness
Day. We were hopeful that the Collier County Commission would
join thousands of counties across the country to do the same, but,
unfortunately, we were unable to find a commissioner willing to
sponsor the proclamation.
June 3rd and 4th is Wear Orange Weekend. Orange is the color
that hunters wear in the woods to avoid getting shot, and it has
become the color of the gun violence prevention movement. And I
can see that there's a lot of people here with orange shirts on, so we
invite you to get them back out that weekend and wear them and join
thousands of us across the country to raise awareness about gun
violence. And check out wearorange.org and find an event near you.
Moms Demand Action is grassroots, nonpartisan, we support the
second amendment, and we have over 10 million supporters just like
us across the country working together for a future that will be free
from gun violence.
Education and awareness remain our most valuable tools, so in
that spirit, I'm going to share some facts with you. Every single day
there are 120 people killed by guns in this country, and over 200 are
May 23, 2023
Page 20
wounded. Two-thirds of gun deaths are suicides. 4.6 million
children live in a home with a loaded, unsecured firearm. In school
shootings, roughly three-quarters of the school shooters get their guns
from the homes -- from their home or the homes of friends or family.
Guns are the number one cause of death in children between the age
of 1 and 19 in our country. So our community is no exception to
these statics. Don't fool yourself.
So we have a specific ask. We have a program. It's called the
"Be SMART" program. It is geared towards adults, and it focuses
on education and awareness about how secure gun storage can save
children's lives, and we want your help spreading this information.
We do presentations in the community. We have printed
information and digital information. Some far we have partnered
with the Collier County Sheriff's Department, the Collier County
public school board, and Naples Community Hospital to spread this
information, and we would like your help, maybe some connections.
I'd follow up with you -- I will follow up with you with an
email, perhaps the Department of Health, but we would like your
help. So thank you very much.
(Applause.)
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jane Schlechtweg. This
will be your final speaker under Item 7.
MS. SCHLECHTWEG: Good morning, Commissioners. My
name is Jane Schlechtweg. I represent the Collier County
Democratic Executive Committee, and we are here asking you to
support the Moms Demand Action Resolution to prevent gun
violence here in Collier County.
Susan has given you a lot of good information, statistics on why
a program to keep our children safe is important. And I just want to
add that because of the recent change in the law where now
permitless carry is available to anyone in any mental state without
May 23, 2023
Page 21
training can carry a gun, we will probably see a rise in domestic
violence.
So the Collier County Democratic Executive Committee is
urging you to take action and support this resolution. Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR. MILLER: That's your final speaker on this item.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
Item #10A
RESOLUTION 2023-99: APPOINT THE INITIAL MEMBERSHIP
OF THE COASTAL STORM RISK MANAGEMENT
FEASIBILITY STUDY AD HOC ADVISORY COMMITTEE –
* DISTRICT 3 - MOTION APPOINTING JOSHUA MAXWELL BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL – APPROVED;
*DISTRICT 4 - MOTION APPOINTING SCOTT SCHULTZ BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL – APPROVED;
*DISTRICT 2 - MOTION APPOINTING MILES SCOFIELD BY
COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL – APPROVED;
*DISTRICT 5 - MOTION APPOINTING ALEX GARLAND BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS – APPROVED;
*DISTRICT 1 - MOTION APPOINTING JOE SCHMITT BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL – APPROVED
*AT-LARGE - MOTION APPOINTING KEN HUMMISTON BY
COMMISSIONER HALL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL – APPROVED
May 23, 2023
Page 22
*AT-LARGE - MOTION APPOINTING MATTHEW NOLTON BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL – APPROVED
Commissioners, that brings us to Item 10, Board of County
Commissioners. Item 10A is a recommendation to appoint the initial
membership of the Coastal Storm Risk Management Feasibility
Study Ad Hoc Advisory Committee, and I will look to County
Attorney Klatzkow.
MR. KLATZKOW: I would suggest we start with this by
going from district to district with the commissioner in the district
making whatever nomination you feel is appropriate.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I just want to say one thing to all
my fellow commissioners. Thank you so much for shaking the trees,
you know, hard. I mean, if you look at the applications we got, I
mean, we got not only a good amount, but, boy, some really
superstars. I mean, some real citizens who have stepped forward
who have deep résumés, and that's what we want on this committee.
So, I mean, it goes without saying, I'm sure you're going to shoot
notes back to your constituents. But, you know, often that's not the
case. You know, we have -- right? -- two seats, two applications.
It's not to say that the folks aren't qualified, but in this particular case
we got a really nice spread, and thanks to you, Mr. Klatzkow, and
your team and the County Manager for making it easier for us and
sending us all the -- all the paperwork and whatnot. So I think we've
got a good group here to select from.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just -- I believe there were
some other applicants that weren't -- that didn't actually make this
agenda; is that correct?
MR. KLATZKOW: That's correct. I sent an email -- a
May 23, 2023
Page 23
one-way communication to all five commissioners yesterday. Those
were the final applications we received.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Very good.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All right, sir.
MR. KLATZKOW: Again, I would suggest you go by
commission district number and make whatever nomination you feel
appropriate.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. My computer here is
totally locked, so, Troy, you're going to have to come up here at the
break. I just have a big white screen, and I can't see anything, and I
didn't print out the list in front of me. I wanted to pull it up here, but
it goes without saying.
So, Commissioner Saunders, why don't you lead off. I mean,
we don't have the ability to put anything on the screen, do we, on the
overhead?
MR. KLATZKOW: Troy does.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We have two applicants
from District 3, Paul Shea and Joshua Maxwell. Paul Shea has been
incredibly active in supporting Collier County. He's on the Planning
Commission, the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee, and so
he's really very active. Joshua Maxwell has some incredible assets
in terms of his experience, as well as does Mr. Shea.
I'm going to recommend Joshua Maxwell. Joshua is not
involved in any committees at this point and I think will have more
time to devote to it. That's not to diminish in any way Paul Shea's
résumé and application, but I think, because of his already
involvement, that I would appoint Joshua Maxwell.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And can I say something?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just -- and, you know,
it's -- you mentioned to have this many superstars to pick from is a
May 23, 2023
Page 24
wonderful thing, but it's also a curse at the same time.
They're -- who we end up choosing to serve on this committee really
doesn't diminish anyone else's capacities or abilities. And
Commissioner Saunders said that very, very well. Both those -- both
those two individuals were -- are very much qualified, and we're all
faced with difficult decisions here.
MR. KLATZKOW: And I would note there are also two
at-large, so after you seat the district commissioners...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I was going to say that as
well. You know, when we have sort of like, you know, a small
cadre left over that could have easily been selected, obviously that's
going to be our next move.
Okay. So, I mean, I just kicked it over randomly to District 3.
We'll go district by district. So, sir, is that your nominee?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So we have a nomination.
We do this just like a normal -- got a nomination. Do we take a
second, and then we all vote in favor, just like we do all the
committee, correct?
MS. PATTERSON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So I have a nomination.
Do I have a second for that --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- Paul Shea? Nomination and
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
May 23, 2023
Page 25
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Let me kick it over to District 4.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman. I had 14
applicants, so I'm probably not going to go through all 14 --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Are we giving out Rolex watches
for applications or what?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Nah. But, you know, I kind of
narrowed it down to a few, and, you know, one that I kind of want to
represent District 4 and then possibly throw another one in as a
possible at-large just because of his background in this particular
area.
And just, as a representative for, now, for District 4, I'd like to
recommend Scott Schultz who's a full-time resident of Naples Cay,
who represents both the county and the city in where he lives, an area
that was definitely impacted, and it's always impacted just from
normal wear and tear from our shorelines, so -- and he carries an
abundant résumé from being on boards all over and traveling all over
the country representing different governments in different capacities
and just well-versed in a lot of different areas. But that's going to be
my nomination for District 4 at this time.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a nomination and
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
May 23, 2023
Page 26
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Okay. I'll go over to District 2.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So I've had -- I got some good -- I
got some good people. And I'm going to save one of them for the
at-large, because he is like the superstar.
So I'm going to pick Miles Scofield. Rocky is what he goes by.
Rocky's got a whole -- he grew up here in Naples, and he's got a
whole history of hands-on experience on the coastline, and I think
he'll be a real asset to the committee.
And then I'm going to -- we have a late-comer, Ken Humiston
with Moore & Humiston. He's got a master's in ocean -- in coastal
management and coastal construction. So I'm going to hold him out
for the at-large. But I'm going to nominate Rocky -- Rocky Scofield.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll second that.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've got a nomination and a second.
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Mr. Scofield passes
unanimously.
Okay. Go to District 5.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'd like to nominate Alex
Garland.
May 23, 2023
Page 27
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a nomination for
Alex Garland. Do you have a second?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Nomination and a second.
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously. Where are
my District 1 folks on there? Did they not make the spreadsheet? I
can only see what's on the screen here, because my screen's gone
totally blue.
MR. KLATZKOW: There was one in the email I sent.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. So I'll just cut to the chase
then. So we had a few, but I think you all know Joe Schmitt. He
serves on a lot of different -- you know, he serves on the Planning
Commission, but he also does so many other things. He applied, and
I actually reached out and talked with him and a couple of others.
What I really like about Joe -- I think you all know -- he has a lot of
depth with the Army Corps. Yeah, I got his application. Oh, these
are all of them. Thank you, sir.
What I really like is not only does he have depth with the Army
Corps, but even when he serves on the Planning Commission, he just
offers his expertise. He doesn't try to over -- you know, oversell
anything, to be anybody else. He doesn't try to take over the
meeting as Colonel Schmitt or any of those type of things.
So we get his expertise, and I think for this, there's been so much
May 23, 2023
Page 28
miscommunication or misunderstanding about what the Army Corps'
doing and what we're not doing, that he will really be a steady hand
to guide people as far as the Army Corps' responsibilities and then
also what is our responsibility, and he, you know, filled out an
application very quickly. And, you know, I had a great conversation
with him.
So I nominate, you know, Joe Schmitt from my District 1 seat.
Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Nomination and a second. All in
favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Okay. Now, let's talk about the two at-large seats, and let's get
two heavy hitters. Who's got a nomination for an at-large seat? It
sounded like Commissioner Hall had one.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes, sir. Ken Humiston has given
us an application late, and I don't know if you've had a chance to see
it, but he's got a --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. Good. There you go.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The first thing I just wanted to do
first was to see how many of you have at-large nominations, because
if we have five, then we have to narrow it down to two, so I don't
May 23, 2023
Page 29
want it to be a first come, first served thing. So you have Ken as
one.
Commissioner McDaniel, do you have an at-large?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm good with Humiston.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You like Ken?
Commissioner Kowal, do you have an at-large?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes, I do. Matthew Nolton.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll second that one, too.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: He is, like we said, superstars.
He comes in, 40 years’ experience when it comes to Florida general
contracting, professional engineer licensed in this particular field.
He's -- it was told to me, basically, by most people here in this town
that he definitely knows what's good for us and what's not.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I mean, that's my
recommendation.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, did you
have an at-large nominee?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I do not.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And I don't think I will
either. I think we've got -- we've got two. So I'll go.
Commissioner Hall, on your nominee of Ken, do we have a second?
And I think we did.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You did have a second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So all in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
May 23, 2023
Page 30
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Commissioner Kowal's already made a motion on his nominee.
Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Nomination and a second.
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously. those folks
have an important job to do, and we'll be looking for their
recommendations and their feedback.
Okay. County Manager.
Item #10B
RESOLUTION 2023-100: MOTION APPOINTING MICHAEL
RAMSEY, CHRISTINA AGUILERA, KIMBERLY ELLIS,
ROBERT RAINES, MARK TEATERS AND APPOINTING RAE
ANN BURTON AND AARON ZWIEFEL FOR AT-LARGE BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL - APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 10B is a recommendation to appoint
the initial membership of the East of 951 Ad Hoc Advisory
Committee.
May 23, 2023
Page 31
County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah, there are no district seats for this
one. There are five regular members and two alternates.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So what was that? I missed the
beginning of that. Go ahead.
MR. KLATZKOW: There aren't any district seats for this. So
you've got a list of proposed applicants for this. There will be five
regular members, and we're doing two alternate members for this
committee.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'm kind of the one that's
instigated this, if you would like me to grab on and have a little
discussion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I actually had asked in a
pre-meeting why -- you know, where's all the nominees? Why is it
only five and three, and then, obviously, if you dig into it, it's really
heavy in those two districts, so you would expect you would want
your nominees to be. So, sir, I'll turn it over to you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The -- in 2006, I believe, Commissioner Coletta established a
committee called the East of 951 Committee, Horizon Study, East of
951 Horizon Study Committee, and they scheduled the first meeting
for that group in October of 2006, and no one had consulted with me
about my travel plans for Colorado and things that I was doing
outside, and I missed the first meeting. And Russell Priddy was one
of the nominees that was on that committee, and when he looked
around the room and didn't see me, he was like --
COMMISSIONER HALL: He became president.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- I thought McDaniel was on
this committee. And they said, oh, yeah, but he's off in Colorado.
And he said, well, I'll nominate him to be chair. So there I was
two years later serving as chair of that committee. I found it to be
May 23, 2023
Page 32
invaluable to the community, to the residents, the information that
was disseminated to the residents about what is transpiring in Eastern
Collier County. The entire premise was to go through
departmentally what was, in fact, transpiring and then have the
community make recommendations to the Board of County
Commissioners.
For what it's worth, all of those things transpired except for the
last, and that was after the Board was -- the 19 recommendations that
that committee actually came forth with, not many were actually
effectuated.
So the dynamics of Eastern Collier County east of 951 are rather
tricky, just -- there's a couple of independent organizations that are
doing their thing out there. I do a monthly "Evening with the
Commish" that I do once a month on the second Wednesday of each
month. So my thought was, let's try to regroup the East of 951
Horizon Study, call it the 2.0, and bring in some community leaders
and re-establish this committee.
So I've gone through the list and, Commissioner Saunders,
this -- this group encompasses both of our districts after the
redistricting that recently transpired, so -- and I think the way we
have this set up is five with two alternates.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I believe that's the case,
so -- and I'm -- I'm going to lean over to Commissioner Saunders and
ask how you -- how you wish to proceed with this. I mean, I think
probably the goal would be for us to come up to a consensus of the
five with two alternates and then have the balance of the Board ratify
it.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Well, there are three
applicants -- pardon me -- from District 3, and there are about
six -- or eight or nine, I guess, from District 5. I'd like to make sure
May 23, 2023
Page 33
that there's some representation from District 3 on the original five.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And then, of course -- and
so -- and you probably know these folks a little bit more than I do,
but I do want to see Michael Ramsey to be on the committee.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. I also like Christina
Aguilera.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. Good.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: She's very active in
Immokalee, lives in District 3, and Christina's -- I think she -- if I'm
not mistaken, she currently serves on -- or did serve on either
my -- our CRA or MSTU in Immokalee as well.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Then I have no issues with
the other five appointees coming from District 5.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Well, I'd like to -- I'd
like to nominate Kim Ellis. I'd like to nominate Bob Raines. I'd
like to nominate Mark Teaters.
MR. KLATZKOW: I count that as five.
COMMISSIONER HALL: That's five.
MR. KLATZKOW: And then you need two --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Christina Aguilera and
Michael Ramsey.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. One, two, three, four,
five. Those will be the -- those will be the five primary. And then
as far as alternates go, Rae Ann and/or Jill and Zwiefel. Zwiefel is
the other one -- is the other name. Aaron so -- and Aaron's done a
very good job. So I'd like to -- I'd like to nominate as the alternates
Rae Ann and Aaron Zwiefel.
Okay with that?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. I'll make a motion to
May 23, 2023
Page 34
approve those seven appointees.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall's lit
up. Was it about this, or is that old?
COMMISSIONER HALL: No.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So we've got a motion to
nominate five seats and two at-large. I've got a motion. Do I have a
second?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All seven pass
unanimously.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
Item #11A
CONTINUATION OF THE COLLIER HEALTH SERVICES, INC.,
COMMUNITY HEALTH WORKERS TO ADDRESS HEALTH
DISPARITIES AMONG THOSE AFFECTED BY MENTAL
HEALTH AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND APPROVE THE USE
OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT-CV AND
STATE AND LOCAL FISCAL RECOVERY FUNDS TO
SUPPORT THE PROJECT - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
May 23, 2023
Page 35
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to
Item 11A. 11A is a recommendation to approve the continuation of
the Collier Health Services, Inc., Community Health Workers to
address health disparities among those affected by mental health and
substance abuse and approve the use of Community Development
Block Grant-CV and State and Local Fiscal Recovery Funds to
support the project.
Ms. Kristi Sonntag, your Community and Human Services
Division director, is here to present.
MS. SONNTAG: Good morning, Commissioners.
Would you like me to go through the presentation or --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Please.
MS. SONNTAG: -- or answer some -- okay.
All right. With that being said, the item before you today is the
funding to support the Collier Health Services Community Health
Worker Program.
First some history. The Board directed staff following their
February 28th, 2023, Board meeting to look for alternative funding
sources to support the continuation of the outreach program for
primary healthcare services.
Staff has identified funding to support the Healthcare Network
program through December of 2024. The funding includes $125,625
from Community Development Block Grant and the -- through
September 30th of 2023 and 315,000 from State Local Fiscal
Recovery Funds from October of 2023 through December of 2024.
The proposed project will actually include two agreements
because there are two different funding sources. The scope of
service will include six community support healthcare workers that
will focus primarily on mental health and substance abuse. They
May 23, 2023
Page 36
will offer primary care referrals, they will offer referrals for mental
and substance abuse services. In addition, they will conduct mental
health and substance abuse outreach events.
The outcomes proposed under the agreement, we would look at
the number of clients served, the number of referrals to provider
agencies, so including medical and mental health agencies, and we
would also include a measurement of outreach events.
The project would be evaluated through Florida Gulf Coast
University, as the State and Local Fiscal Recovery Funds require
those funds to be evaluated by an independent evaluator.
So the recommendation is to approve the continuation of the
Community Health Worker Service contract using Community
Development Block Grant and State and Local Fiscal Recovery
Funds.
With that, I'll take any questions.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I have one, but Commissioner
Saunders, I'll go to you, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Pardon me. Quick question.
You've said this, but I just want to clarify, make sure it's clear on the
record. I've gotten some requests for justification for using county
tax dollars -- ad valorem tax dollars for this type of a program. I
believe, from what you've presented, that there are no Collier County
ad valorem tax dollars in this appropriations request.
MS. SONNTAG: You are -- you are correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I just wanted to make that
clear.
MS. SONNTAG: The funding sources are both federal in
origin: Community Development Block Grant, that comes from
Housing and Urban Development, and State and Local Fiscal
Recovery, which comes from the U.S. Treasury.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
May 23, 2023
Page 37
MS. SONNTAG: You're welcome.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I know we have some public
comment. Let me go to Commissioner Hall first.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I've had some additional concerns
about why we partner with certain people. And so I asked the
question yesterday. So just for the record, I want to clear it up.
Why do we partner with NGOs with grant money or with other
things? And the answer was a good answer, and it was so that we
can provide services to Collier County residents that the county
normally does not -- does not provide, and that is the reason for the
partnership.
What is the process for maybe allowing -- is there competition?
How do we decide who we partner with, or is there just, like, one
game in town?
MS. SONNTAG: To answer your question, Commissioner,
annually, about January 6th of every year, my division offers an
application round for grant funding. We include state -- any state
funding that we may have, we include our federal funds in that
application round. It is open to the public. It's a two-part process.
So the first part of the process is you have to put your project in
our system. We evaluate your project for eligibility and if it meets
with the terms of the grant funding, and then we have you come back,
do a full application. Then there is a review and ranking committee
that is made up of community members that is approved by your
County Manager. That review and ranking committee hears all the
projects, reviews all the applications. They rank them in order.
They decide, you know, what funding source is best for which
project, at which point then the County Manager says, yes, you know,
those look good. Go ahead and do your pre-award process. We do
that, and then all those agreements come back to you as a Board for
ultimate approval.
May 23, 2023
Page 38
COMMISSIONER HALL: So it's well thought out and well
planned?
MS. SONNTAG: Yes, sir. And it happens every year, same
time, January.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, how many public
comments do we have?
MR. MILLER: We have seven registered speakers on this
item, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let's go to public comment.
MR. MILLER: I would like to ask the commenters to queue up
at both podiums. Andrea Werder will be followed by Richard
Schroeder -- Schroeder, excuse me. Either one, ma'am.
MS. WERDER: Hi, everybody. I'm a homeschool
government teacher, and I'd have to say these last three years, you
guys have really, really made me do my homework. It's really
interesting to try to teach the Constitution with kids and to try to tell
them what is -- what is the essence of what government does for us.
Well, we're here to do what? Pursue life, liberty, and the
pursuit of happiness. Well, what happened three years ago and even
up till three years ago? That was the question my high school
students had for me.
How would each of one of you commissioners -- how would
you answer that question to a high school student? Well, I know I
can't ask you that right now, but I want you to ask yourselves that,
please. I want you to think about what we parents suffered when our
college children were coming back and being force vaccinated
because of some NGO program, okay.
Everybody's passing the buck, but as a high school teacher and
as a homeschool mother, I had to look my children in the eye and tell
them why they had to put a face diaper on themselves, why they had
to tremble in the presence of a police officer, and why their mother
May 23, 2023
Page 39
has to go to commissioners meetings and explain the difference
between an NGO government law and how that all filters into life,
liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Now, I only have three minutes here to speak with you-all, and
I'm kind of glad for that, because my feelings are a little bit hurt by
this, because I feel like games are being played. When I had to say,
what is an NGO, I understand that there are some good NGOs. Of
course there are. But there's plenty of non-good -- what did I have to
say? NGOs, no-good organization. Okay. So how do you know
the difference between the two? Because there are good, and there
are bad.
Well, you guys are here to figure out that difference, and you
guys get to listen to the professionals. As a high school homeschool
mom, I didn't get to do that. I had to go out and ferret and figure out
who was good, who was on our team, who was for life, liberty, and
the pursuit of happiness, and I think we're all getting to know our
answers.
But the good news is, we're all still breathing, okay. When you
know better, you do better. And what does it take for a country to
fall? For a few good men to do nothing.
Thank you all very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dr. Richard Schroeder.
He'll be followed by Beth Sherman.
DR. SCHROEDER: Thank you. Good morning,
Commissioners. Richard Schroeder, retired physician speaking to
the Partners in Health Community Health Workers Block Grant.
As noted in the Naples Daily News, Partners in Health create
strong partnerships. This implies a partnership with their generous
supporters, which include George Soros, Open Society Foundation,
the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Pfizer, Gilead, and
GlaxoSmithKline, among others. It is evident from the news article
May 23, 2023
Page 40
that the primary interest of Partners in Health, HGN, was getting as
much mRNA technology beneath the skin as possible. This
undoubtedly stems from their financial heritage of the Bill and
Melinda Gates Foundation, the primary driver behind the
multipurpose bioweapon development, also known as the mRNA
COVID-19 vaccine.
The intent behind the mRNA technology was recently brought
to light by biomedical and med/legal researcher Karen Kingston,
whom I believe you all know and have heard before, who found that
Pfizer made a decision in 2016 to create diseases using mRNA
technology then to develop and use and market gene editing
technology to treat these diseases. So the prospect that we are not
going to see more mRNA technology pushed by Partners in Health
via their generous sponsors would seem to be slim to none.
Strong corroborating evidence comes from Dr. Jim Thorp, a
maternal-fetal medicine specialist with 45 years' experience and
reams of data who says -- who just -- who published an article
recently that says the DOD, DARPA, BARDA, CDC, and the FDA
have put together a three-year plan and injected it with billions of
dollars to promote the mRNA injections. Year 3 of that plan would
be 2025, so it looks like that will be coming back with a vengeance.
I will also counter the argument and comments you're likely to
hear that we will only use this money mainly for screening chronic
diseases, mental health, and so forth. Screening for chronic diseases
in and of itself can be a problem, especially in "healthy populations"
where it's been shown to lead to more invasive, expensive testing,
more unnecessary surgery, and, of course, more pharmacological
intervention with its attendant side effects and inflated expenses.
And I'm not even going to get into what a big pharmaceutical
bonanza the mental health field has become. We're fighting a big
medical industrial juggernaut here, and we need to understand what's
May 23, 2023
Page 41
at stake. Whether the funding is coming from the local, state, or
federal government is immaterial. I advise not authorizing our tax
dollars for this purpose.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Beth Sherman. She will
be followed by Scott Sherman. Beth Sherman's been ceded
additional time from Marge Heinzel. She is here. And Mary
David -- Deveas-Pitzi. I hope I'm saying that close to right.
Mary, are you here?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: So she'll have a total of nine minutes.
MS. SHERMAN: Good morning, Commissioners. Nice to see
you again.
I'd like to say thank you for the small victory with returning the
CDC money; however, what I realize is that it is a symptom of a
much larger problem. The problem is that our county took
$74.8 million of federal funding from the American Rescue Plan
which was in partnership with the CARES Act and the U.S. Federal
Treasury Department. The government then laid out exactly where
you could spend it. They even put it into convenient categories like
mental health, PPE, public health, and much more. Sounds great,
right?
Many people may not see an issue with this. I, for one, do.
We can no longer continue to take federal and state grant money
without looking at the long-term and contractual obligations to them
or whom they require you to partner with.
From browsing through the American Rescue Plan that you
signed on to in 2021, which is where the original Migrant
Farmworker Grant came from, listed on Page 19, I find some
troubling connections I would like to point out. We took a federal
grant and allocated it out to federally-approved subcontractors. Two
May 23, 2023
Page 42
out of five of those are local government agencies, and three out of
five are NGOs. So, basically, we took in federal money, gave it to
federally approved subcontractors that are nongovernmental
agencies. Does that seem like flawed logic to anyone? Because it
does to me.
The definition of an NGO is a group that functions
independently of any government and is usually non-profit. If they
function independently from government, then why are they funded
by tax dollars? Now, I'm not an expert, but it sure looks like the
federal government's goals are being implemented at a local level
through nongovernmental organizations. That's top-down control
which always leads to dictatorship.
You are working with NGOs and a health department who got it
so wrong during COVID. They're working under guidelines of the
CDC and NIH. We have showed you already how wrong these
three-letter organizations were during COVID. So why are we still
working with them and using NGOs who follow their direction?
Why do you trust their judgment in anything moving forward?
In this document, there's a hyperlink that goes to the NIH where
it states that they are aligned with the UN 2030 sustainability goals.
Besides the federal government, these NGOs are taking funding from
globalist groups that don't have the welfare of the American people or
this county in mind, such as the Clinton Foundation, Open Societies,
Big Pharma, and many more.
The Collier County Community Health Coalition Partners were
all responsible for driving up the case numbers in Immokalee in
exchange for a positive COVID test under the guise of paying their
rent. They got cash for a positive COVID test. That includes
Healthcare Network. That's where this grant money was used, to
drive panic and fear into this community.
So why should we give this NGO a grant to fund the salaries of
May 23, 2023
Page 43
their employees? They are a nongovernmental agency. I believe
that means local government should not be funding them. They
have operated in the county for 40 years without assistance of local
government, so why should we pay their salaries now? In fact, why
should we pay the salaries of any organization other than local county
employees?
Why else do I think funding Healthcare Network through a
mental health grant is a bad idea? Well, Healthcare Network has a
new mental health facility at Nichols Community Center. They state
at the bottom of this website that it is a, quote, health center program
grantee under 42 U.S.C. 254b and deemed public health service
employee under 42 U.S.C. 233 g through q. Its employees, qualified
contractors, and volunteer health professionals are deemed to be
public health service employees under 42 U.S.C. 283 g through q.
The legal liability of the Health Center and staff is limited
pursuant to the Public Health Service Act. Well, the Public Health
Service Act is a federal law that was enacted in 1944. The act
established the federal government's quarantine authority for the first
time and gave the U.S. Public Health Service responsibility for
preventing the introduction, transmission, and spread of
communicable diseases from foreign countries into the U.S.
This NGO -- which I'm not even sure how they can call
themselves an NGO, "nongovernmental," without a chuckle, since
their new mental health facility states that they are a public health
service employee -- is wanting us to fund their efforts through a grant
that, if deemed necessary, will lead to quarantine authority. That's
messed up. It really is.
If we truly want to do good for this community and help the
migrants in need, then I would suggest making tailored programs run
by the county to do such a thing; however, since we took the federal
COVID grant, it appears we are just checking off boxes to fulfill our
May 23, 2023
Page 44
commitments to the contract.
If we want to see positive change in this county and this nation,
we need to stop doing things because it's what we've always done and
strive to do the best, the best for the people, not the institutions.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Scott Sherman. He'll be
followed by Kathy Maines. Mr. Sherman's been ceded additional
time from Milton -- and, Milton, I can't really read this last name. If
you'll just raise your hand if you're here, Milton.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Oh, I see him. Thank you. So he'll have a
total of six minutes.
MR. SHERMAN: Good morning, Commissioners. Thank you
for listening to me today. My name is Scott Sherman, for the record.
And I come to you today as a father of someone who needed mental
health services here in Collier County, and I'm here today to discuss
the evidence-based medicine from both of these perspectives,
because this document, the rescue plan, says they go by -- it says we
go by, as a county, evidence-based medicine.
When my youngest daughter was 12, her mother died. Her
situation was exacerbated by her diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome, a
less severe form of autism. She moved to Florida with me, and over
the next five years, we spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of
hours in mental health therapy.
My least favorite experience was actually with the David
Lawrence Center, which our county funds. The reason I had a
problem with them was their primary solution is to put their patients
on antidepressants.
So when we read that we're distributing this -- all this money, it's
29.6 million for the healthcare side -- on evidence-based medicine, I
feel the need to point out the following peer-reviewed evidence.
May 23, 2023
Page 45
The institute for quality and efficacy in healthcare out of
Cologne, Germany, published in 2006 and updated it in 2020, their
conclusion was that antidepressants helped improved symptoms in 20
out of the 100 people.
Psychothripsycosim (phonetic), published in -- July 9th of 2010,
a meta-analysis of the largest antidepressant effect this trial ever
conducted, the FDA trials suggested antidepressants --
THE COURT REPORTER: Can you please slow down?
MR. SHERMAN: Okay. The FDA trials suggested
antidepressants are only marginally efficacious compared to
placebos. So at least it appears that antidepressants in the
meta-analysis are about 25 percent effective at two years.
So let me tell you about that -- we're going to do a tire analogy.
And as you go to the best tire shop in town, and he says, you're going
to love these expensive tires I'm going to sell you because one of
them will still be working in two years. You're going to give a
thousand dollars to that guy? I'm not. And this is $29 million.
Okay.
So let's keep going. Let's look at the COVID evidence. Did
you know that the study cited by our school board to justify masking
of our children was actually a white paper released by NCH? Its
evidence showed that with full PPE, their staff exhibited a 1 percent
improvement of viral transmission wearing goggles, gloves, mask,
and gowns.
So according to our Collier County 2021 performance report, we
are giving them $2 million for distribution of PPE that has a lower
efficacy than antidepressants.
So to continue with my tire analogy, you're happy that only one
is still going to be working in two years. He says, oh, but I'm going
it sell you a cloth that you can put on every day, a new cloth every
day, and I'm going to generate a lot of pollution and a lot of time and
May 23, 2023
Page 46
extra time and effort on your part, and you might get a 1 percent
improvement in your tire performance.
So this is what we're talking about. These are the kind of
evidence-based medicines that we're doing here.
So, in conclusion, all the solutions offered during COVID by our
leading healthcare organizations that we're funding, including
Healthcare Network, resulted in stricter controls on our population
and record profits for pharmaceutical companies.
So we'd like to move this county in a direction to stop taking
money from these global entities and from the federal government.
These are our tax dollars. I mean, it's -- the lady said that it's not
funded by, you know, our local county ad valorem, but if you're
getting it from federal government, remember, that's our tax dollars
too. So we're using tax dollars. And we'd rather have local
solutions to start by.
So one of the things I would like to suggest is that this board
request -- or instruct our Collier Health Department to compile and
release an all-cause mortality rates for the last six years in total and
broken out in the top 10 killers. No interpretations, just the numbers.
My research indicates that during the worst pandemic we have
ever experienced, no more people died on average than the previous
five years; however, once the vaccination was rolled out, the overall
moratorium spiked. This means one of two things: The vax is
killing people, or the vax makes you more susceptible of dying of
other things.
My opinion is clearly anecdotal, but correlation often points to
causation. So maybe a vax injury study should be funded with some
of this money. So find some local doctors who have no ties to Big
Pharma, and ask them to look into these numbers, please.
So we can't just let the mistakes that happened during COVID
be ignored by just continuing to fund the same people doing the same
May 23, 2023
Page 47
things, and we would like to find some local alternatives.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your final speaker on this item is Kathy
Maines. Kathy Maines?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: And there is no one on the fifth floor, so...
One more time, Kathy Maines.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right, sir. That is it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioners, do you
have any questions of anyone or any statements at all?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And, Commissioner Hall, what
you had said to lead us off is the same sort of feeling I had initially
when I sat down with the county staff. I mean -- I mean, I
appreciate -- I'll just open it up, since everybody's, you know, sort of
here trying to think of what they want to say, is I think it's
really -- first of all, I wouldn't say that it was a minor victory on the
CDC.
So when this room was packed and we sat here for hours, you
know, I mean, one -- once you sort of get the outcome you want, I
guess it's easy to kind of downsize it. But I think you would have
called it a minor loss had we all not have been in agreement with that.
So I don't want to discount the efforts that we did up here to dissect
the 10 different angles of the CDC money. But that decision's
already -- already been made and come and gone. And I stand by
my vote, and I think my colleagues do as well.
You know, one thing that I just say as an opening statement is
having heard everybody very clearly, it's quite dangerous to just say
when we accept federal money, there's a whole bunch of negatives.
There's hundreds if not thousands of people in Collier County
May 23, 2023
Page 48
whose lives were basically -- you know, I say "lives," but lifestyles
were saved during COVID and during hurricanes from federal money
that we got from FEMA, federal money that we got to pay their rent
for two years, federal money that they got to augment their lost job.
So, you know, let's not lump everything. You know, if you marched
all those people in here that -- and they did march in here saying, you
know, why weren't we giving out more money.
So, you know, you can't say what's good for the goose isn't good
for the gander kind of thing. But also, too, the peanut butter
spread -- you know, we take everything on face value. So there are
plenty of people screaming in here saying, where's the federal
dollars? Where's the FEMA trailers? Where's the money to help us
with our rent during COVID? And that seemed all okay to
everyone.
In fact, we were all getting chastised that we weren't handing out
the money fast enough. Then we found out during an audit that this
was one of the few counties that actually did it correctly where some
others are still in litigation for being Santa Claus and not actually
filling out the form properly. So I thank Ms. Sonntag for standing
by her guns and making sure that we followed the, you know, state
and federal guidelines.
But having said that, I don't know if my colleagues here feel like
we need to do a, you know, deeper dive on this. I mean, I have some
concerns just making sort of a rubber stamp and saying, oh, my God,
more federal money. We definitely don't want to do that because
there's a million negative things with it, and then we turn our back on
something that actually helps in a lot of other areas that aren't
COVID, aren't face diapers, aren't all these other things.
So I want to make sure that we've done our homework as well.
And I know that I've spent a lot of time speaking with the various
agencies and with our county staff on this, just like I know we all did
May 23, 2023
Page 49
for hurricane relief, for, you know, rent relief and housing assistance.
And, you know, all those had a federal stamp on it as well.
And in the words of our County Attorney, if strings are attached,
we can -- we can always address that, you know, when the time
comes. And I'm not saying that's our fallback position. But,
anyway, those are just some opening comments. I don't have a
predetermined vote or anything right now, because I do value the
opinions of not only the citizens but my colleagues.
So I'll go to Commissioner McDaniel, and then, Commissioner
Saunders, you're on deck.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
You know, I -- we all lived through some really tough times
with the -- with the virus, and the medical data that, Doc, you and I
talked about on a regular basis with regard to the manipulation of the
data sets and the information that was put out by the CDC and who
was actually passing away and what they were passing away from.
At the end of the day, money is fungible. I had an enormous
amount of experience with the Healthcare Network for the care of the
folks in Immokalee. I didn't agree -- as virtually everyone knows, I
didn't agree with the mandates and the things that were put out by
those agencies, if you will.
But I watched. I watched what the Healthcare Network did for
the community of Immokalee. The greater good, ultimately, was
served. I saw no -- I saw no forcing of vaccines. I saw no forcing
of wearing masks. We went through -- we went through some of the
processes and procedures. And, again, medical directors -- the
executive director of the organization at that particular time was
taking information that she, in fact, thought was best. She's now
moved on. There's another executive director of that organization.
And just to share a little story. When I was -- when I was over
meeting with him last fall, there was a lady that came into the Nichols
May 23, 2023
Page 50
Center, heavy, heavy, heavy with child when she was about to bear a
child, literally.
She was standing in the waiting room trying to get an audience
with somebody. And I went on through, got a tour of the mental
health facility, and so on and so forth. And when I came back down,
that lady was in one of Collier County's ambulances underneath the
vestibule out front giving birth to that child.
So all that notwithstanding -- but, you know, you can draw a lot
of correlations, a lot of potential circumstances that can come from
taking grant money, utilizing grant money. But I sincerely believe
that what you said, Mr. Chair, can be, should be, and will be a
fallback, if necessary -- not necessarily a fallback, but the lead, and
that is -- you know, we're not going to react to those type of mandates
and edicts and directives that come from these -- from these agencies.
I mean, we -- Commissioner Hall, you led the charge on the return of
those initial grant monies, and we even sealed that deal by putting
back the money that was already taken in advance to the -- to this
organization.
And I'm -- I personally am not fearful of utilization of this
money to support -- to support that community.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I was actually going to ask Commissioner McDaniel a couple
questions about the use of those funds and the benefit to the folks
in -- basically in District 5. It's mostly Immokalee, and I think
Everglades City, perhaps, there's some, but mostly -- mostly
Immokalee.
The issue we dealt with several months ago was the mandates
from the CDC and the fact that we did not want to be subject to those
mandates. We've eliminated all that by canceling that grant. And I
think the sense of the Board was that this medical program in the
May 23, 2023
Page 51
Immokalee community was very important to those folks that are
receiving those services and that we unanimously wanted to proceed
with a way to fund those.
And I don't -- I'm not persuaded by what I've heard today that
we are doing something that would be inappropriate in the use of
grant funds for this project. I think the project is beneficial, as
articulated by Commissioner McDaniel, and as agreed upon by all
five of us several months ago.
So I don't have any problem in moving forward with this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I don't see anybody else lit
up. Do I have a motion to pass this recommendation?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll make the motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion. Do I
have a second?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll second it, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Motion and a second. All in
favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Could I make a comment,
Commissioner -- Chairman?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You've got to light you up.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I never did light up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It's all right.
May 23, 2023
Page 52
COMMISSIONER HALL: But I just had a -- I just had a
thought. I appreciate the comments, and I appreciate the concern.
And what I would like to see going forward is as much research that
is done from the public -- to backtrack and to assume what we're
doing is not correct, I would like to see the research go forward and
bring viable solutions and opportunities for us to act on what you
think is better. We represent you. And as far as this decision, I
think it's a good decision.
Mental health is a big deal. Substance abuse is a bigger deal.
And if we can take a small amount of money and fund good, solid
workers that are out there trying to make a living, they're not the ones
with the conspiracy. They're not the ones in cahoots with whoever
the evil parts are. They're out there, and we're funding their job so
that they can go do services in our community.
So I would just like to see that going forward, for the research to
be what we can do to make that better or get with human services in
January when the new process starts over. We found these people
who we feel would be really reliable and better suited to meet the
needs of our community. So I just wanted to say that going forward.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's a great idea.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I look at this philosophically. I mean, we look back -- and I had
the opportunity to actually sit down with the new director, because I
believe -- he wasn't director when all the CDC and all that stuff came
about. He came in after the fact, and I had actually had an
opportunity to sit down with him -- James, I believe his name is -- a
few weeks ago, and we just had a good talk. I mean, he's a U.S.
Army veteran, retired airborne. You know, he did a lot of service to
our country. He's very decorated, came out as an officer out of the
U.S. Army.
May 23, 2023
Page 53
And, you know, we talked about real-life cases where his
community health workers were out in the field and talked about a
few cases where they actually intervened where they saved some
lives.
So the question I ask, a lot of people that do a lot of research and
do the old, you know, Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, you know, if you
ever heard that, I can connect any person in this room to somebody
you don't like or dislike in some way if I research deep enough.
And so my question is, what is the price of a human life? Can
anybody put a number on that?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The government does.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Human life is different between
me and you, right? Because a loved one would be more to you than
maybe to me. It would be priceless.
So when we look at these sometimes, we have to look at the
greater good and not so much the George Soroses and the Gates.
Because you think once a human life is saved by this organization,
George Soros gets angry because his money was used to do that?
Does he pull his money back?
We have to look at this with open eyes sometimes. And when
you're on a crusade, pick your battles. Pick your battles, because it
diminishes your work on the crusade sometimes.
That's all I'm going to say. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: County Manager, what I'm going
to propose, so that we can have a nice fresh start with The Haven -- I
know it's no sooner than 10:00. It's 10:26. Let's come back at
10:35 so people can use the bath -- we'll say -- let's say 10:40.
There's a lot of people here. People want to use the restroom.
People want to get a drink of water. There's not a lot of availability
out there. So we're going to say 10:40 so then we can come back
refreshed and really jump into that one.
May 23, 2023
Page 54
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We'll resume at 10:40.
(A brief recess was had from 10:25 a.m. to 10:40 a.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'd just remind everybody to please
put their cell phones on silent. We've got a lot of material to cover.
I'd like to have it a little quiet in here so we can -- we can hear, and
we don't have to hear your song of the day.
Okay. County Manager, we're going to roll into 9B, obviously,
right?
Item #9A (Companion to Item #9B)
ORDINANCE 2023-27: TRANSMIT TO THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY A
SMALL-SCALE GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN
AMENDMENT ORDINANCE CREATING THE AIRPORT
CARLISLE MIXED-USE SUBDISTRICT TO ALLOW THE
CARLISLE ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY (GROUP CARE,
CARE UNITS, NURSING HOMES, ASSISTED LIVING
FATALITIES, AND CONTINUING CARE RETIREMENT
COMMUNITIES) WITH A MAXIMUM OF .65 FLOOR AREA
RATIO AND UP TO 336 MULTIFAMILY DWELLING UNITS,
OF WHICH 76 WILL BE RENT RESTRICTED AS AFFORDABLE
ON 27.78 PLUS-OR-MINUS ACRES, LOCATED SOUTHWEST
OF THE INTERSECTION OF ORANGE BLOSSOM DRIVE AND
AIRPORT ROAD IN SECTION 2, TOWNSHIP 49 SOUTH,
RANGE 25 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA – MOTION TO
APPROVE W/CHANGES BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED
4/1 (COMMISSIONER HALL OPPOSED)
May 23, 2023
Page 55
Item #9B (Companion to Item #9A)
ORDINANCE 2023-28: A REZONING ORDINANCE FOR THE
HAVEN AT NORTH NAPLES MPUD TO ALLOW THE
CARLISLE ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY (GROUP CARE,
CARE UNITS, NURSING HOMES, ASSISTED LIVING
FACILITIES, AND CONTINUING CARE RETIREMENT
COMMUNITIES) WITH A MAXIMUM .0 -- OR .65 FLOOR
AREA RATIO AND UP TO 336 MULTIFAMILY DWELLING
UNITS, OF WHICH 76 WILL BE RENT RESTRICTED AS
AFFORDABLE, ON 27.78 PLUS-OR-MINUS ACRES LOCATED
SOUTHWEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF ORANGE
BLOSSOM DRIVE AND AIRPORT ROAD IN SECTION 2,
TOWNSHIP 49 SOUTH, RANGE 25 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA - MOTION TO APPROVE WITH CHANGES BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO - APPROVED 4/1
(COMMISSIONER HALL OPPOSED)
MS. PATTERSON: We're going to hear our time-certain item
of 9A --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Or 9A, I'm sorry.
MS. PATTERSON: -- and 9B, which are companion items.
And these -- I'm going to read these two into the record for you.
This -- 9A is a recommendation to approve and transmit to the
Florida Department of Economic Opportunity a small-scale Growth
Management Plan amendment ordinance creating the Airport Carlisle
Mixed-Use Subdistrict to allow the Carlisle assisted living facility
(group care, care units, nursing homes, assisted living fatalities, and
continuing care retirement communities) with a maximum of .65
May 23, 2023
Page 56
floor area ratio and up to 336 multifamily dwelling units, of which 76
will be rent restricted as affordable, on 27.78 plus-or-minus acres,
located southwest of the intersection of Orange Blossom Drive and
Airport Road in Section 2, Township 49 South, Range 25 East,
Collier County, Florida.
Its companion, Item 9B, this item does require that ex parte
disclosure be provided by the commissioners, which we'll do next.
And this is a recommendation to approve a rezoning ordinance for
The Haven at North Naples MPUD to allow the Carlisle assisted
living facility (group care, care units, nursing homes, assisted living
facilities, and continuing care retirement communities) with a
maximum .0 -- or .65 floor area ratio and up to 336 multifamily
dwelling units, of which 76 will be rent restricted as affordable, on
27.78 plus-or-minus acres located southwest of the intersection of
Orange Blossom Drive and Airport Road in Section 2, Township 49
South, Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida.
With that, we need to do our ex parte.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'll start with
Commissioner Kowal on 9A and/or 9B. Do you have any
disclosures?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yes, I do. I have meetings,
emails, and calls.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I do have -- I
had meetings, correspondence, and telephone calls as well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I've got it all: m38eetings
correspondence, emails, calls, letters, everything.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I, as well, have had meetings,
emails, and calls.
May 23, 2023
Page 57
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And I have meetings,
correspondence, and emails. Okay.
MS. PATTERSON: Now we need to do the swearing-in for the
testimony.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Alls I would remind the crowd,
we've had some really, really maybe controversial discussions in
here, but big groups before. We've had some very difficult, you
know, votes, but they were always professional and mature. So I
would just tell you, you know, as I've told the other groups before,
we don't want to turn this into a clown show. This is important.
This affects our community regardless of how we vote. So, you
know, cheering and hooting and hollering and all that, you know,
that's how they did it on The Jerry Springer Show. That's not what
we do here. We have professional discussion. We want to hear
from both sides. We want to be respectful from both sides.
So when you're at the podium, if you wanted the other side to
boo you or heckle you or scream or clap or whatever, you may or
may not want that. That's not what we do here.
So -- and also, too, when the red light goes off, we're not here to
cut off. Don't want you to continue to make an 11-minute speech,
but monitor the lights. And, you know, as the lights go on, it's a
reminder to you to start to wrap it up. Nobody's here to bang the
gavel and cut you off. We want to hear from everyone so that we
get as much information as possible before we vote.
So we're all in this together. Shut off your phones. Let's be
respectful to everybody, and let's have a good healthy discussion here
May 23, 2023
Page 58
because there's a lot of moving parts.
Having said that, I guess, Mr. Yovanovich, you probably are
going to open this up, I would expect, correct?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes, sir.
MS. PATTERSON: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. The floor is yours.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Thank you.
Good morning. For the record, Rich Yovanovich on behalf of
the applicant. The applicant is Johnson Development Associates. I
have several people with me here today who can answer any
questions regarding the project. Kerry Ann Wilson is with Johnson
Development. She's heading up this project from a development
standpoint.
Johnson Development is not new to Collier County. This
would be their third project in Collier County if it is approved. The
first project was approved at the corner of Livingston and Radio
Road in the Briarwood development. It's known as Lago. The
second project that was approved is right across the street, the
redevelopment of the shopping center, Courthouse Shadows, and
that's Marea. So this would be the third project in Collier County for
Johnson Development.
Brett Boyd has worked with us on a few projects. Briarwood
was the first one, and this is the second one, helping us with Johnson
Development and coordinating for them. Bob Mulhere is the
professional planner on the project. I'm the land-use attorney on the
property. Norm Trebilcock is our transportation consultant. Tim
Hall is our environmental consultant. Jeremy Chastain is a planner
with Hole Montes who worked on this, and Terry Cole is in -- will be
addressing any engineering-related questions that you may have
regarding the project.
I'm going to do a brief overview of the project. I'm also going
May 23, 2023
Page 59
to take you through how we arrived at this 22.6 percent affordable
housing commitment. There's math behind it on how we got to that.
I'm not sure everybody in the audience knows that, and some of the
commissioners weren't around when we made the original
presentation. And then Bob will take over and get into a little bit
more detailed presentation of compatibility with the surrounding
community.
The property is 27.8 acres. It's outlined in red on this site. It's
at the intersection of Orange Blossom and Airport. Around this
property is a significant amount of nonresidential development. This
is the county complex up here with the library and the county offices.
Across the street is the Greek church. The Greek church owns this
piece of property; the property was originally designated commercial
under your Comprehensive Plan. To the southeast, this is also
designated commercial under your Comprehensive Plan, and it is
zoned for commercial uses as well. Further to the south, right in
here and near the project, is an industrial park.
So our project is fronting Airport. It will access Airport, and it
is aligned with uses that are being -- already exist on Airport, and
Bob will take you through that in a little bit greater detail.
As the County Manager pointed out, we have two requests
before you. One is a small-scale Growth Management Plan
amendment. The purpose of that amendment is to implement
income-restricted housing on this property because, quite candidly,
your existing Land Development Code matrix doesn't work for
bringing affordable housing forward to Collier County. You've
recently transmitted some Growth Management Plan amendments
that would allow for up to 25 units per acre through some
yet-to-be-determined formula. Our request, frankly, is consistent
with what you've transmitted but not yet adopted.
So we have both the Growth Management Plan amendment and
May 23, 2023
Page 60
a PUD to allow for 33 -- 326 units, of which 76 of those units will
have income restrictions: 38 of those units will be income restricted
to the 100 percent and below AMI, and 38 of those units will be at
the 80 percent and below AMI income-restricted categories as part of
this project.
What it will also do is -- the Carlisle's been around for a while.
The Carlisle was approved before the Growth Management
Plan -- I'm sorry -- before the Land Development Code limited the
FAR to a .45. The Carlisle is greater than .45, so what this will do is
it will actually make the Carlisle a legal use instead of now a legal
nonconforming use.
So it allows, God forbid, the Carlisle, if it burns down, to be
rebuilt in its current configuration.
There's been discussion about what's the real density for this
proposed project. Your Land Development Code says you look at
the entire site. The entire site's almost 27.8 acres. That would be a
density of 12.1 units per acre. If you just took the tract on which
we're proposing the development, that's 14.57 acres; that would be
23.06 units per acre. All of this is in the staff report so people know
exactly how the density is being calculated.
And if you want to take out the parking lot that we're building
on our piece to serve the Carlisle, that would bring down -- our
development down to 13.29 acres, which would put us at 25.28 units
per acre, consistent with what's been recently transmitted to the state
for review.
We had the required NIM. We had a follow-up -- a follow-up
meeting with the leadership of that area, including properties across
the street from us as well as properties on Orange Blossom. We
listened to comments that we received. The comments -- and Bob
will go through this -- were primarily related to density and height.
We made some adjustments to those. And, also, traffic was a major
May 23, 2023
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issue. We initially had an emergency access for our part of the
project out onto Orange Blossom. We removed that. So there is no
interconnection of this project through the Carlisle that will result on
any traffic from our project having direct access to Orange Blossom.
Our emergency access is now through Bear Creek which is -- I
should go back. Bear Creek, which is this apartment complex right
here, Bob will show you we have an emergency access through there.
We also added a second access onto Airport and relocated that to
address concerns that were raised during the public outreach
meetings we had.
As I said in front of the Planning Commission, and I think it's
clear, we are at a very crucial point for housing in Collier County.
Every one of you have mentioned the need to provide more
income-restricted housing. Everyone on the Planning Commission
has expressed that need as well, and the community has expressed
that need as well.
This is one of a few projects that I'm working on that have these
we'll call them project-specific Growth Management Plan requests
and project-specific affordable housing commitments.
And, Troy, I'm going to switch over to the visualizer real
quickly.
A couple years ago before interest rates started rising, we had
a -- Bob and I were working on some projects on Airport -- I'm
sorry -- on Collier Boulevard, and as we were -- small-scale Growth
Management Plan amendment along with a PUD, and county staff
was trying to get us to reach a 30 percent income-restricted threshold
for the units. We pushed back and we said, we can't afford it. The
numbers don't work. We've got to have a project that's economically
viable in order to move forward. And staff said, then, you know,
show us -- show us the math, because we're not going to just take
your word that you can't -- we wanted a 20 percent commitment, and
May 23, 2023
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we wanted higher income thresholds.
So what we presented at that time is consistent with what I'm
going to present now, and this is for this specific project that's before
you today. Is this working? Yeah.
It started with what are the market rate rents currently in the
community? And what you can see, these are projects that are up
and running and are being rented.
AUDIENCE MEMBERS: Can you make it bigger?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sure. Is that good? Okay.
So what we've done is we've looked at what are the current
average market rate rents for one-bedroom, two-bedroom, and
three-bedroom apartments in Collier County. And as you can see,
the average one-bedroom rents for a little over $2,400, the average
two-bedroom rents for a little over $3,100, and the average
three-bedroom rents for a little over $3,800. That's what the rents
are out there. I think everybody agrees those rents are not affordable
for a lot of the workforce in Collier County, especially, you know,
nurses, teachers, firefighters, and other professionals that we need to
have our community continue to have the level of service we have
today and just the overall enjoyment of our lifestyle by having people
live in our community.
There was -- so what does this mean when a particular project
comes through and they have to restrict the rents based upon the
guidelines on the 80 percent and the 100 percent income-restricted?
So what is the actual reduction from the overall market rate?
Now, we initially included the 120 percent category, which
clearly everybody said we do not want any of the income-restricted to
be at the 120 percent category. But even at those categories, there's
an offset. There's a loss in potential revenue.
So at the 100 percent category, you can see what happens as far
as the reduction in monies that come into the project for the project to
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operate, and it becomes very significant on a monthly basis and even
more big when you commit to it for a 30-year commitment, which
is -- ours is a 30-year commitment. And it doesn't have any
language in there that would allow if we can't lease the unit, we can
put it at a market rate. We're committed to these units being
available and rented to people in these categories until they're full.
They will stay vacant until they're full. So there's no incentive not to
rent these units. There's every incentive to rent the units even
though it's with reduced rents that will come in overall on the project.
All of this is relevant, because when you go to the bank to try to
get financing for your project, you have to show the bank that you
have the potential, if all goes as expected, to hit a rate of return based
upon the amount of money you're going to put in the project at
5.5 percent.
And initially on those other projects -- and like with this project,
if we had no restrictions on the units, we would get a return of
6.1 percent if everything went as expected. However, with the rent
restrictions that we're required to do, we have our net income from
the project, minus the revenue that we're not going to get because we
have to reduce the rents, we get a certain amount of income per year
that we need to get to 5.5 percent in order to get the financing.
And as you can see, in this table we have both the county and
revised because we've agreed to the 22.6 percent, so those numbers
are the same. There's almost a million dollars a year in foregone
market rate revenue for this project, and that brings the return down
to 5.3 percent. Now, this is one of a couple of projects that I've got
that started this process before interest rates went up. They've got
the ability to continue to go forward even though they're not going to
get to that 5.5 percent return.
But when you look at the lost revenue over 30 years, you're
talking about almost $30 million in lost revenue to help provide
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housing, not only market-rate housing, but income-restricted housing.
So it's a significant commitment by a developer to move forward with
this project and achieve the financing that they would need in order to
move forward --
Can I go back, Troy?
MR. MILLER: Yes.
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- that they would need to go forward
with the project.
So this developer and a few other developers that are going
through the process right now, and a few that came before them, have
come up with a formula based upon review by county staff or review
by the Planning Commission and review by prior board members as
to what is an appropriate percentage in return for going forward with
the project.
This project, as a base density, if it was on its own, would be
15 acres. It would -- under the Growth Management Plan, it can get
four units per acre base, another three units per acre as a bonus
because it's less than -- it's an infill parcel that would -- so seven units
per acre on 15 acres is 105.
So out of the 231 additional units that we're requesting through
this Growth Management Plan amendment, 76 percent of those
additional units are being income restricted, which I think is
somewhere around 40 percent of the additional units are being
income restricted through this project.
Bob will take you through in greater detail how you get in and
out of this project, how this project is compatible with what's around
us. And it's -- the Commission has asked and the community has
asked for the private sector to play a role in addressing this affordable
housing issue. This developer is going to play a role. They're going
to develop a Class A project similar to what they've already done in
the community.
May 23, 2023
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All of the units will be the same. You will not know one unit
from another unit as far as the fit and finishes in the units. You
won't know who has an income-restricted unit and who won't have an
income-restricted unit.
There is a commitment to annually verify with the county staff
that we've met that commitment. We also have a commitment that,
with just a little bit of notice, come in and look at our books at any
time to verify that we have met that commitment.
There have been concerns raised about whether or not the
development community that's been getting these income-restricted
units as part of their project are, in fact, living up to those
commitments. They're -- really, the first one that made this
commitment that is actually out of the ground and been leased up is
Allura, and that's up on Livingston Road. It was approved with an
income restriction number of units. It's been audited. It meets -- it's
living up to what it's going to do. Every developer I have who's
gotten a project approved that's coming out of the ground, and
hopefully others that will come out of the ground, know what that
commitment is. They're willing to meet that commitment, and there
will be no doubt that we'll meet that commitment because you will be
able to review and verify that commitment as part of the annual PUD
monitoring process.
So with that, that's a general overview of what we're proposing
to do, how we got here, how the affordable housing commitment
came about, and I'm going to turn it over to Bob unless you have
questions of me --
COMMISSIONER HALL: I do.
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- take us through a little bit greater
detail.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let's keep going.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I think Commissioner Hall just --
May 23, 2023
Page 66
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, I'm sorry. He just lit up. Go
ahead, Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Mr. Yovanovich, I have one
question for you. The question was posed to me about what is the
mix -- the one-bedroom, two-bedroom, three-bedroom -- of the
affordable units? And I didn't know what that answer was.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And the -- and I'll tell you what that
answer is. We want the market to tell us, because there's a lot of
demand for ones, there's a lot of demands for twos, and there's
demands for threes. And what we thought was if we could be
flexible to make sure we got those units leased up and in there, it was
better than having to commit to a specific number, and maybe that's
not the right market mix.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Gotcha.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Anything else?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Mr. Mulhere.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, could I ask
Mr. Yovanovich a quick question?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: In reference to the new
legislation, the Live Local Act that the legislature has approved, and
the Governor has signed, if this board did nothing, what would
be -- under that legislation, what would you able to do? Have you
looked at the legislation?
MR. YOVANOVICH: I have. And it would be seven units an
acre.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: It would be how many?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Seven.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Seven.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Seven units an acre, yeah. We're not
May 23, 2023
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commercially zoned, and the Live Local only allows for -- I guess I'd
have to come to you, and I'd still have to ask for more through a
process, I'm assuming the question is "by right." What can I do?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, exactly.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And by right I could do one unit per
five acres because I'm zoned ag. But your Growth Management
Plan today currently provides for four as a base and three as the
bonus, because we're less than 20 acres.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's the same that you
would be able to get under Live Local --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Under the Live Local, that's all I would
get.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. Thank you.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes.
MR. MULHERE: Good morning. For the record, Bob
Mulhere. I'm a certified planner with Hole Montes, a Bowman
company.
So what you have on the visualizer before you is an excerpt
from your Growth Management Plan and shows the subject site,
which is here. We're in the urban area. It's an urban infill parcel.
This is the zoning map. Historically, going back to, probably, at the
time that the -- and before the Growth Management Plan was first
adopted in 1989, a great deal of land within the urban area was zoned
ag, and, of course, that becomes, then, a holding zoning. It's
anticipated and promoted through your Growth Management
Plan/Future Land Use Element that those uses are -- that that zoning
is going to change to a zoning that is consistent with the Growth
Management Plan.
So, yes, you have ag zoning here. You actually have another
piece here, and it, of course, is anticipated that that zoning is going to
change over time.
May 23, 2023
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This is the master plan, and just to point out a few things, there
is an existing right turn out onto Orange Blossom for the Carlisle,
which is right here, and that will remain. We have designed the site
so that none of the multifamily residential will be able to go through
the Carlisle to access that. That was done in response to comments
that we heard from nearby residents that they didn't really want this
traffic significantly impacting Orange Blossom.
So our entry -- main entry is shared with the Carlisle, and then
we have a right turn only here, a little bit further south, and then there
is an emergency only access, which uses an existing ingress/egress
easement into the Bear Creek multifamily project to the south.
This is a colorized rendering depicting the proposed multifamily
project. Here you have the existing Carlisle up here. As Rich said,
that is a legal nonconforming use at this point in time. It was
approved as a conditional use quite a few years ago prior to the
county adopting a floor area ratio standard, and so this will apply the
floor area ratio to the Carlisle and make it a conforming use.
Also there was mention of -- there is -- presently the Carlisle
uses a portion of the Italian American Club property right there -- you
can see some of the parking right there -- for parking to meet their
parking needs. As part of this process, we will be developing
parking for the Carlisle. So folks that want to enter into the Carlisle
will come through this way, and then folks that will be reaching the
multifamily will come through this way.
So in terms of landscape buffers north, adjacent to Orange
Blossom, there's a 20-foot Type D, and adjacent to the ag
property -- because that is -- oh, let me just go back to that real quick.
As I mentioned, this parcel up here is zoned ag. That is obviously
going to change and most likely will develop as a commercial
property. So we have a 10-foot buffer here, and then, of course,
when this property develops, they'll have their own buffer adjacent to
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ours.
To the south we also have a 10-foot buffer, and to the south
is -- as I mentioned, is the Bear Creek, which is a multifamily project
right along here.
To the east, adjacent to Airport-Pulling Road, we have a Type D
buffer required by your code, 20 foot wide along Airport Road, and
then adjacent to the CPUD, we'll have the 10-foot Type A, and to the
west, we're -- we have -- within Tract B, the multifamily tract, we
have a 15-foot enhanced Type B buffer, which includes a wall. This
is a graphic depicting that buffer from the perspective of our
neighbors.
This is a rendering of the proposed multifamily project looking
in from Airport Road, and a little closer up of -- perspective of the
project.
I wanted to point out here that we have some mentions on here
that show the distance of the -- of the proposed multifamily to our
neighbors here. These are one-story parking structures, so they're 10
foot tall, thereabouts. These neighbors over here have provided us
with letters of no objection. We are 279 feet from this structure and
185 feet from the closest point of this structure on this single-family
lot.
And over here, you get -- the closest structure to the northwest is
361 feet to the edge of our building. They're actually closer to the
existing Carlisle. This is a Collier County stormwater facility.
And so you can see we've designed the site to create a separation
particularly from where the multistory/multifamily is, and that's
important because that's sort of consistent with the county's definition
of compatibility. And you can mitigate and should mitigate. There
are many examples of multifamily being in close proximity to
single-family throughout the county, including high-rise buildings.
This is just a view perspective from our neighbors looking over
May 23, 2023
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the proposed enhanced buffer and wall here, and as you can see, they
will be seeing a little bit of the higher end of the buildings.
So as I mentioned, we are requesting a 0.65 floor area ratio for
the existing Carlisle facility, which will make it legal and
conforming, and then 336 multifamily units. Rich already went over
how that density's calculated. He also went over the number of
multifamily units, particularly 38 units at 100 percent or below and
38 units at 80 percent or below.
There's other projects that have been approved already, not even
considering the fact that the county has already submitted some
changes to allow for 25 units per acre.
The Lord's Way, 25 units per acre; Blue Corral, 25 units per
acre; Briarwood, which was developed by Johnson Development,
22.7 units per acre; Lely Resort has a 20.4; and the Randall Curve has
400 units on 19.5 acres at 20.5 units per acre.
Rich went over the fact that we had a NIM. I think you're
probably all aware of the issues that was raised. Traffic was a
significant issue. And we did make some changes in response to
this, which I previously mentioned. Building height, we had started
with a building height of five stories. We've reduced it to four.
We also met, as Rich indicated, with the leadership at the
Monterey clubhouse, presented the changes that we'd made after the
NIM. I think they were appreciated. Probably didn't go far enough
for some people's perspective, and we understand that, but we did at
least present those changes to them.
Again, that's a summary of the changes we made, which I've
kind of already mentioned to you.
In particular, even on the east side of Airport, there were some
concerns where we had our secondary right-out only, that it would
conflict with folks leaving -- and I always forget the name of this
development. If I could just get there. I'm sorry. I need to get to
May 23, 2023
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the aerial. Lone Oak. So that's right here. They only have one
way in and out. We originally had our secondary right-turn only
right about here, which potentially, if folks did want to make a
U-turn, they would conflict. We moved it further south so that folks
have to travel further to the south before they make a U-turning
movement.
You know, it's our position that if you're heading southbound on
Airport, there's a Publix down there. If you want to head
northbound, you know, that would be relatively few trips. And, of
course, Norm can speak to the particulars of that.
I'll just summarize the traffic. Again, if you have specific
questions, we do have Norm Trebilcock here. But the total p.m.
peak-hour trips would be 343 p.m. peak-hour trips. And as the
Board of County Commissioners has now, for some time, required,
we have a p.m. peak-hour cap in the PUD.
MR. MOGIL: Can we make that table a little bit larger so we
could read it, please?
MR. MULHERE: I don't know of any way to make larger on a
PowerPoint presentation.
MR. MILLER: There is not.
MR. MULHERE: We won't have any access to Yarberry Lane.
That's the single-family road off of Orange Blossom. Many people
asked about that.
As I mentioned, there's only an egress to Orange Blossom
strictly for the Carlisle. We don't have any access to Orange
Blossom directly from the multifamily tract.
We're designing the secondary access right-out onto Airport so
that there's a median -- so that that forces people to travel further
south so there's no conflict of U-turning movements. We do have
that emergency access only to Bear Creek. This kind of shows you
those access points.
May 23, 2023
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And that concludes my presentation. I'm happy to answer any
questions that you may have, and we do have others here that can
assist.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I do have some. Just for
clarity, Mr. Miller, how many public comments do we have? Just so
we've got an idea of what --
MR. MILLER: Thirty-six.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thirty-six, okay.
I want to hold my comments until I hear from the public, but if
we have any of my colleagues that want to ask now. Commissioner
Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Mulhere, that last
display you had up there -- okay. I wanted to make sure that that
said right-out only for the existing Carlisle only.
MR. MULHERE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I just saw the right-out only
on Orange Blossom, and that was a bit of concern. But that is only
for the Carlisle?
MR. MULHERE: Correct. There's no connection from the
multifamily Tract B.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll ask one question before we roll
into the public comment, and this is probably for Mr. Yovanovich.
Give me a little deeper dive into the two NIMs, the dates that you had
them, turnout, feedback, you know, anything you can tell me.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, I'm always encouraging,
you know, citizens that have a very opinionated view of something
that, you know, the NIMs are your time to hear from the developer
before you come in here and we hear from you. And I know a little
bit about -- that you had two, but -- in the public forum and with a
May 23, 2023
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deeper dive. Tell me when those were, and, you know, as much as
you can contribute.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Sure. They both basically during
season when people were here. The first one was at the library, you
know, on Orange Blossom. It was full.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That was in person?
MR. YOVANOVICH: It was in person and Zoom, but it was
full in-person.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. YOVANOVICH: A lot of public participation as to what
they -- their concerns were. Height, density, and traffic was the
recurring theme. Then we had -- we had a follow-up meeting. We
thought it would be better to have a smaller group on the follow-up
meeting.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What was the time in between one
and two?
MR. YOVANOVICH: The first meeting was September 26th.
The second meeting was February 7th.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, wow.
MR. YOVANOVICH: So it was -- we went -- met with our
client and said, what revisions can we make to the project and have it
still be a project that, you know, was viable? That's when we were
able to bring the height down from five stories to four stories.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So when you say "smaller group,"
was it leadership --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. YOVANOVICH: It was the leadership of the -- and I'm
sure that Dave Renner will come up there and tell you everybody
who was there, but there's -- I'll call it a consortium of the presidents
of the different associations is my wording for that group.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
May 23, 2023
Page 74
MR. YOVANOVICH: So we met -- we met with that group,
explained the changes we made regarding height, regarding access,
presented those, as Bob mentioned. It didn't really move the needle
with the group because they want us to be at three stories. We
explained we can't be at three stories. They want us to reduce the
density. We explained why we couldn't reduce the density and still
have a project that made economic sense. And at the end of the day,
we did the best we could to address their concerns, but we, obviously,
didn't get all the way there because they came to the Planning
Commission and voiced their objections, and they'll voice them
again, I'm sure, to you-all.
But we did -- we did try to follow up, and we were -- we made
changes. And we made changes based upon what we heard. And
we thought, frankly, they were significant exchanges because I don't
think you're going to find a professional planner who's going to get
up there and say a four-story building is incompatible with a
three-story building. Maybe a five-story building is incompatible
with a three-, but we did make those changes.
We have -- you know, as Bob pointed out, we have 130-foot
setback from our western boundary. We changed the access, made
sure there was no access. So we did. We did our best to make
changes to the project, and we didn't get there.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, the list that I was -- it was
going to be my follow-up, but you kind of summarized it. But the
list I had where it sounded like the major changes you made was to
the height, to the setback, and to the road access.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Was there anything else that I
missed? Those are the top five or --
MR. YOVANOVICH: No. I think -- that was, I think,
from -- yes, I would say the big issue was height, traffic. I think
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Page 75
traffic was the main. I shouldn't say the main, but it was brought up
quite a bit. There's concern about traffic on Orange Blossom.
Orange Blossom has been constrained by the County Commission to
a two-lane road at the request of the residents. It's going to be a
two-lane road. I can't imagine that the County Commission's ever
going to go back to making it a four-lane road, which it was always
planned to be a four-lane road.
But, you know, to be fair, when you decide to restrain your road
to a two-lane road, you should anticipate more traffic on that
two-lane road than you would experience if it was the four-lane road.
So traffic is a concern for the residents.
Norm Trebilcock is available to explain the amount of people
that we really think will actually go south, make a U-turn, go to
Orange Blossom, and go west on Orange Blossom. There will be
some trips that will do that, but not --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: When you changed the height, how
did it change the density/inventory of the number of units? Because,
obviously, if it was one less story, was -- is it the same amount of
units, just smaller?
MR. YOVANOVICH: It is. It's the same amount of units.
We changed the unit mix to make the project work. And it's -- you
know, it's -- you've got to have a project that you can finance and
make it work, or you end up with seven units an acre much less
dense, with no affordable units.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Mr. Miller, let's start with
the public comment, please.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. We have 36 registered speakers.
Quite a few speakers have been ceded additional time.
Your first speaker is Dave Renner, and he'll be followed by
Diane Flagg.
Mr. Renner's been ceded additional time from 15 people. So,
May 23, 2023
Page 76
folks, when I call your name, please raise your hand up high so that I
can see it.
J. Holzschuh.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Okay. Laura Wagner?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
Jeff Wagner?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you. Marian Holzschuh? I'm sorry
I'm butchering your name.
MS. HOLZSCHUH: That's fine.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Tony Fedelman?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: George Chami?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you. William Eckels?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Vivian Lugo?
MS. LUGO: I gave my time to somebody else.
MR. MILLER: Well, I have a slip here for you for Dave
Renner.
MS. LUGO: Correct. Okay.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Melinda -- is it Gunther?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you. Linda Simpson?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you. Debbie Elliot?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Arthur Anger?
May 23, 2023
Page 77
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Diane Martin?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Mark Simpson?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: And Olga Daniyar?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Mr. Renner will have a total of 48 minutes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Does our camera show anybody up
on the fifth floor?
MR. MILLER: There is nobody on the fifth floor, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: As the commissioners know, we
installed a camera up on the fifth floor so Mr. Miller can monitor that
in case, you know, we forget somebody, or if there's plenty of room
in here, we can invite those people to come down. So it's a nice little
improvement.
But, all right, sir, the floor is yours.
MR. RENNER: Commissioner LoCastro and Commissioners,
thank you. For the time record, my name is Dave Renner. I'm a
resident of the Villages of Monterey, which is one of the
communities near where they're proposing The Haven project. My
wife, Ann, and I have lived there 22 years. We've raised our four
children there. We love the area, and we're here just to speak on
behalf of the residents and the leadership group of the Orange
Blossom/Airport Road corridor on why we are strongly
recommending you deny the request for this rezoning.
So I've been the leader -- I'm part of the leadership group, and
these are the 14 communities that run north and south of where this
project is being proposed on Airport Road and along Orange Blossom
from Goodlette Road all the way to Bridgewater Bay at Livingston
Road.
May 23, 2023
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So we have over 4,000 households that are part of these
communities. And you can see -- I know you've gotten a lot of
emails from people. You can see everyone here today. And we
are -- they've asked me to speak on their behalf, the people who can't
be here to speak, or the people that are here today that would like
to -- that have ceded me their time.
And our group, we've selected about six people for our group to
speak. We wanted to keep it condensed and respectful so we're not
repeating ourselves to the commissioners.
We've also, you know, of our group, we did have a petition of
over 3,000 residents. Save Orange Blossom/Airport Road corridor,
oppose the rezoning for the 60-foot-high, 336-unit Haven apartments.
But let me just start with what is our viewpoint as residents.
And we believe there's a win-win, there's a balanced solution here.
What we want is responsible growth. We are fine with something
going on this property. We're fine with apartments going on this
property. We're fine with affordable housing on this property. But
we want something to be cohesive and consistent and compatible
with the neighborhood in both height, density, and character.
The residents also ask the county commissioners to follow the
Growth Management Plan as it's established today. We believe
there is a need for affordable housing as well. So we applaud efforts
for affordable housing, and we are fine with an affordable component
on this property.
Of course, the developer wants a successful and profitable
project, but we believe a lower-height and lower-density project, still
with affordable units, is much more cohesive, consistent, and
compatible with the neighborhood -- neighboring communities.
And, Troy, can you switch it to my other piece real quick for
me.
MR. MILLER: Yeah. We've got to get out of the slide slow.
May 23, 2023
Page 79
There you go, sir.
MR. RENNER: So I just wanted to -- this is Goodlette Road
right here, and this is Orange Blossom heading east towards Airport
Road.
So just to give you -- and I'm going to go through this quickly,
but this is -- you have -- and these are all part of our alliance: Calusa
Bay, Autumn Woods, you have Monterey. I'm going to kind of
speed up here. These are all the single-family home communities,
just so you can see what -- you have Millrun, Stonegate,
single-family homes, two-story condominiums here. You have
Emerald Lakes on the left.
So here we're coming up to Airport Road. So if I pause that
there, or just go back a little bit. So, basically, what else do we have
here other than single-family homes and low-rise condos? We have
a one-story government building. We have a one-story library. The
tallest building -- really the only taller building here is the Carlisle at
42 feet. You have the Italian American Center, and as you keep
going, you have a one-story church. Back here is Walden Oaks.
You get a peek of this. This is Windward Isles, another
single-family area.
And as you keep going -- so here is -- this is the subject
property. These are the Bear Creek. Again, low-rise complex, Bear
Creek Apartments. Below that is the Oasis. Again, low-rise
apartments.
So just -- and, Troy, if you can go back to the other one, that's
just to give you a feel. That's what's existing. And the applicant's
representatives talked about, down the street there is a commercial
area, but they're not proposing to build this down the street in that
commercial area. They're proposing to build this in the center of a
primarily residential area with a couple other structures that really
support the residents in that area.
May 23, 2023
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So The Haven's asking for the 60-foot-high, 336 units, 23 units
per acre. Just as a reference point, this is 43 percent higher than the
tallest neighboring building, the 42-foot Carlisle assisted living
facility. That is dramatically higher. And we're asking that
anything built here should be at or below that 42 feet just to be
consistent and cohesive.
They're also asking for 64 percent higher density than the
highest neighboring density complex, just as south of Bear Creek
apartments is 14 units per acre. Too high, much too high, much too
dense for what's there today.
You've seen the property here. It's our understanding that the
applicant has not purchased the 10 acres here. You have the
10 acres here, which is the agricultural land. So I understand they're
under contract to purchase it if they get the rezoning.
And the other thing I just wanted to point out here, here's the
Carlisle. The Carlisle is a separate owner. They're part of this PUD
amendment because of the shared access and -- but separate owner.
They're not part of the Johnson group, separate property.
And we're asking the commissioners if you'll consider any
density should be considered just on the property where The Haven is
being built. And you can see most of the property is being built on
the 10 acres. The entrance to the Carlisle is going to be shared. It's
going to be the same -- the same exit there. And I'm going to talk a
little bit about safety concerns, but there's going to be two -- two
right-only exits, one here and one here, and I'll talk a little bit more
about that shortly.
So here is just another view of where the project -- this is where
the project is going to be. This is going to be the entrance. So here,
across the street -- so this is Windward Isles; they have a right-turn
only. This is Walden Oaks; they have a right-turn only. This is the
Carlisle, which would be combined with this project, right-turn only.
May 23, 2023
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There's going to be another right-turn only here. There's a new
project I'm going to talk about shortly, the Lutgert medical building
right here, also right-turn only, and all of these and also Bear Creek,
right-turn only.
And all of these exits are going to be trying to shoot across three
lanes to get to the U-turn -- whoever -- you know, half of them are
going to be going south, half are going to be going north. And we
live with this. It is already a disaster right there, and I'll talk a little
bit more about the safety concerns as I go.
We believe The Haven apartments would be a tipping point as
they're proposed by the applicant at 336-unit density and the 60 feet
high and will lead to this area -- because you saw there are some
vacant lots there -- to becoming an overbuilt, congested area,
overcrowded school at capacity, and the safety concerns. And there
are other vacant parcels, but one in particular that I wanted to bring
up today.
On June 11th, you're going to be hearing another applicant
proposing -- so here -- right here is where they're proposing to build
The Haven. Right next door the -- there's a new proposal for
rezoning that you're going to be hearing for the Lutgert medical
building and self-storage facility, and this is coming to you on
July 11th.
And what they're -- it's our understanding that's currently zoned
for a maximum of 40,000 square feet of commercial space. They're
going to be asking to double this to 75,000 -- or almost double it to
75,000 square feet plus 104,000 square feet for a four-story
self-storage building. And that's a rendering of this Lutgert building.
Again, going to be just north of -- right next to The Haven, adjacent
to the entrance of The Haven project.
So we believe whatever is approved today will have an influence
on what your decision is on July 11th when they're proposing this
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almost doubling of density and square footage for that commercial
product -- project.
And you probably heard, we've met -- we've been very involved
from last September. We met with the developer. We met with
Mike Bosi and his staff. We met with Mike Sawyer and Trinity
Scott in the Transportation group. We get with Cormac Giblin in
Housing. The staff has been very responsive, by the way, in
answering our questions and really helpful, and we appreciate that.
When we met with Mike Bosi, he made it very clear the Orange
Blossom/Airport Road corridor is not designated an urban activity
center by the county. It's not like a Logan's Square. It's not like a
Founder's Square. It's not like Pine Ridge Road and Airport Road.
It's not like the Mercato area. This is a residential neighborhood,
mostly single-family homes, two- and three-story condos and
apartments, a church, library, service center, Italian American center.
So this stretch of Airport Road right here where they are
proposing -- the developer told us there's going to be 5- to 700 cars is
what they're estimated for The Haven projects. The Lutgert medical
building project they've told us in their information meeting, 3- to
500 cars daily.
So there's a huge concern been safety at this section which is
already very busy. This stretch of Airport Road has the third-highest
number of crashes and the third-highest crash rate in Collier County.
The schools in this area are already at capacity. And they mentioned
the number of cars both these projects will bring; we think it's going
to be a disaster here.
So, again, we're not saying nothing. We're just saying it should
be lower density, lower height, more consistent to keep -- you know,
we know there's going to be growth. I mean, that's happening in our
county. We live in this beautiful place. But we can do something
that's responsible so we don't have a disaster or just an out-of-control
May 23, 2023
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area.
And I just -- we pulled this from the 2045 Long-Range
Transportation Plan, and it just shows here -- so Airport Road from
Pine Ridge Road to Orange Blossom, 455 crashes, the third highest in
the county, but also the crash rate over here 4.943 was the
third-highest crash rate.
So any increase is going to increase it, but if this is just blown
up to the maximum, we feel this is going to be -- will probably go to
the top of that list. So, again, asking for a balanced answer.
This is just showing the schools. Pine Ridge Middle School, no
capacity; Barron Collier, no capacity; Pelican Marsh Elementary, no
capacity. So, again, we're going to be adding students here, but,
again, something reasonable makes more sense on this property.
When we met with Zoning Director Mike Bosi, he told us, and
the applicant confirmed this, that 10-acre vacant parcels, agricultural,
allows one unit per five acres. The normal zoning, if you agree to
rezone this under the Growth Management Plan, the applicant would
be eligible for a maximum of 60 units, four units per acre. And
based on our meeting with Mike Bosi, if the applicant includes the 76
affordable units under the Growth Management Plan, they would be
eligible for a maximum of 150 units, 10 units per acre. And this
is -- I'm going to pull this -- can you help me with this?
MS. PATTERSON: Sure.
MR. RENNER: So this is just a chart showing -- this came
from the Growth Management Plan -- that at 20 percent -- and they're
just over 20 percent affordable units, at the low -- at the 80 percent.
They have some 80 and some 100 percent of median income. It's six
additional. So allowing six additional on top of the four that they're
eligible for.
And you can take that off now.
So, again, back to a maximum of 10 units per acre based on the
May 23, 2023
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Growth Management Plan. The applicant made it -- you know,
made it very clear that The Haven apartments are being built on this
Tract B, here. This is the Carlisle, and we just want to make sure
that the commissioners consider this based on the number of units
being built on the 14.57 acres of Tract B, which would be 23.06 units
per acre, and not include -- because the Carlisle has people living in
it. You can't use that land and those acreage for your density
calculations when it's going to be being built here.
And this was just -- that was an email from the staff.
Final -- actual height of 60 feet. And just as a reference point, the
actual height -- Haven of 60 feet. The actual height of the Carlisle is
42 feet. So that's what we believe is cohesive with this area. Net
density, 23 units per acre.
As you saw, this was from our meeting with them. These are
going to be very expensive units: 4,200, carriage unit; 4,100,
three-bedroom, $3,200 -- and $2,200 for one-bedroom with a small
affordable component. But this is going to be a luxury, expensive
complex.
So what are the issues that we hear in just our business in living
here, and I'm sure you hear every day, that we all hear about? One is
controlling the overbuilding, overcrowding, congestion in traffic.
The number two right behind that, creating more affordable housing,
but most people we speak with, they want responsible growth, a
balanced growth. Protect what we have now, add more to it, but do
it in a reasonable way, and we can find a balanced approached.
So I just -- from the Planning Commission, I thought it would be
helpful just to share, if you didn't have a chance to see this, Paul
Shea, who voted with the residents, his quote was -- he's at the
Planning Commission when he voted against this project and with the
residents. So, you know, it's always a difficult situation when you're
trying to balance community benefit versus local community impact.
May 23, 2023
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I probably sit more on the other side of this. I am a champion of
affordable housing. I don't really view -- I don't really view this as
an activity center like I would Logan's Square and that, and I don't
even see it close to that. It might get there, but it's not there yet. I
think it's a little too dense, I think it's a little too tall, and I think it's
not quite the same as the rest of the neighborhood. And I think we're
giving up too much for 76 affordable housing units, personally, so
I'm going to vote against it.
Chuck Schumacher also voted against it, and he said -- this is his
quote. I share the same sentiment. I can't -- I can't find myself
getting behind this at this point based on the density that we're seeing
for only the amount of units for affordable housing. I think it has to
be highlighted the number of residents and those that came forward,
not only here today, but also through their petitions and through that
Orange Blossom Alliance, which has to be recognized. I mean,
those residents are coming forward with their concerns.
I understand the traffic side. I understand all of that. But,
again, I have to go back to this density, the height, and the lack -- that
we're not achieving a full amount of affordable housing that we
possibly could.
So we believe as residents, there's a win-win solution here, a
more compatible-sized project. And this is just an example of
something else that will be coming to the county commissioners, is
my understanding. This is off of Vanderbilt Beach Road. This is
the Ascend Naples apartment complex that's being proposed, 208
units on 17.5 acres, 11.9 units per acre, and still including 62
attainable units.
So this developer here figured out how to do this. And the
applicant is saying they can't make the numbers work, but we believe
there is a developer out there, if this applicant can't, that can take this
prime piece of land and make the numbers work with something
May 23, 2023
Page 86
that's more cohesive with the existing neighborhood and more
consistent in height and density with the neighbors.
So we're just asking you, on behalf of all the residents here, the
Orange Blossom Alliance, of those 14 communities, and we
appreciate the opportunity, and we appreciate everyone's help
through all these months from the staff, and we're just asking you to
deny this as it's proposed today, and the -- we appreciate the time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Diane Flagg. She'll be
followed by Jennifer Palmer. Ms. Flagg has been ceded additional
time from Robert Rosenblum.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Joyce Etchison?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Ann --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, you're not -- who was just at
the podium, you're not leaving, are you?
MR. RENNER: No.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Because I'm going to have
some questions for you, but I'm going to wait until everybody has
spoken. So thank you.
MR. MILLER: Ann. It begins with an R. I'm having a hard
time reading this.
MS. RENNER: Renner.
MR. MILLER: Renner. Thank you, ma'am.
Tony Kinnear?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you.
Karen Flinn.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you. Dave Borsenik?
(No response.)
May 23, 2023
Page 87
MR. MILLER: Dave? I don't see a Dave. Okay. Oh, it's
Dale. I'm sorry. Dale.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He had to leave.
MR. MILLER: Okay. He left. All right.
Ellen Nowacki?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She had to leave as well.
MR. MILLER: All right. And William Gallman.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Okay. That's going to give Diane a total of 15
minutes.
MS. FLAGG: Good morning, Commissioners. Diane Flagg,
resident of North Naples.
I've lived in Collier County for 40-plus years, served in county
government for 32 years. I served as the director of Code
Enforcement, the director of Transportation Alternative Modes, and
the chief of Emergency Services.
We've all seen changes over the years.
MR. MILLER: You've got to zoom out. Oh, okay. She's
revealing. I'm sorry.
MS. FLAGG: We know that growth is inevitable. What we
know also is what is not inevitable. The Growth Management Plan
was designed to provide responsible growth. Overgrowth or
overdevelopment is being caused by exemptions to the Growth
Management Plan.
The County Commissioners' Growth Management Plan was
enacted to ensure responsible growth. It establishes the vision, the
framework, and the policies for future growth in Collier County.
The Haven project is eligible -- not entitled to, but eligible -- for a
maximum of four units per acre or a total of 60 units.
This is a picture of The Haven, and as you saw previously, there
will be a shared entrance where the entrance already exists, and the
May 23, 2023
Page 88
bulk of the development is going to go on this 10 acres, this vacant
10 acres that the developer is proposing to purchase along with the
shared entrance of the five acres.
So the question is, why would a for-profit developer offer to
provide affordable housing? It raises a good question. Because
increased density equals increased revenue. Logical, right?
So you've seen this chart, but to understand, this chart is based
on the Growth Management Plan affordable housing density bonus.
Based on this project under the Growth Management Plan, they're
eligible for an additional six units per acre for a total 10 units
maximum density per acre, or a total of 150 units by including
affordable housing. So it's four units, per acre is what the Growth
Management Plan allows, and if they provide affordable housing,
then they're eligible up to 10 units per acre for a maximum
150 acres -- sorry -- units.
However, the developer is proposing 336 units. Three hundred
thirty-six units, if you take out the base density at 60, which they're
eligible for, gives them a bonus of 276 units. Remember, increased
density equals increased revenue.
So now we're going to look at the rental rates that the developer
has provided. A carriage unit is going to rent for $4,200 a month; a
three-bedroom unit is going to rent for 4,100 a month; a two-bedroom
is going to rent for 3,200 a month; and a one-bedroom is going to rent
for $2,200 a month.
If we just take an average monthly rent of $3,000, much less
than the 4,200 at the carriage unit, and we multiply that times the 276
density-bonus units, that equates to 828 hundred [sic] per month of
increased rental revenue, 828-. If you multiply that times 12
months, that equates to almost $10 million per year in increased
rental revenue.
Another consideration, county staff has advised that the Growth
May 23, 2023
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Management Plan amendment and PUD ordinance exempts the
developer from the County Commissioners' Land Development Code
regulations for affordable housing density bonus.
The developer's proposed three paragraphs in the PUD
ordinance, according to county staff, are the only enforceable items.
So what that means is that the 11-page regulation for an affordable
housing density bonus is fully exempted from this project.
So let's take a look at what the PUD ordinance has excluded.
We have the commissioners' regulations, so let's look at what has
been excluded in this PUD ordinance. What's been excluded is an
agreement recorded with the Clerk of Courts that constitutes the
covenants and restrictions and which run with the land and are
binding upon the property, frequently known as a land-use restriction
agreement. It is not in the PUD ordinance.
Also what's been excluded is the number of affordable housing
types. How many one-bedroom units will they provide? How
many two-bedroom, three-bedroom, and carriage units will they
provide? That also has been excluded.
In the commissioners' regulation it requires them, in order to get
a density bonus, to identify the monthly rent by unit type. That has
also been excluded.
In the commissioners' regulation, there's a process for civil and
criminal enforcement when violations are identified. That's also
been excluded.
In your regulations, Land Development Code, there's a process
for annual income verification and certification. That's also been
excluded.
In summary, the maximum eligible -- not entitled to. The
maximum eligible density without affordable housing units is 60
units. The maximum eligible density with affordable housing units
is 150 units. The Haven PUD ordinance, as you've seen, provides an
May 23, 2023
Page 90
incomplete affordable housing commitment.
For these reasons, we respectfully request that The Haven's
Growth Management Plan amendment and MPUD ordinance be
denied. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, I just want to note, I had
miscalculated Diane's time. It should have been 21 minutes. I did
adjust that on the fly, and she didn't get close to using all of that, so...
Jennifer Palmer is your next speaker, and she will be followed
by Dan Flinn.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: How many more do you have on
the list there?
MR. MILLER: Twelve.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MS. PALMER: For the record, Jennifer Palmer. Thank you
for allowing me to speak today. As part of the Orange
Blossom/Airport Road Alliance, I would like to use my time to share
what it's like as a mother raising children in the area.
My family lives local in Il Regalo. We're about 200 to 300 feet
from The Haven property line. Il Regalo is a small community of 35
single-family homes off Orange Blossom and Yarberry Road. I am
the current board president.
When moving to the area, my husband and I fell in love with the
community, all the communities off the Orange Blossom/Airport
Road corridor, and said to ourselves, this is where we want to raise
our family.
We loved that the homes in this area are all nestled together in a
compatible fashion. Picture residents out and about walking their
dogs, exercising, and pushing babies in strollers. Our kids' friends
live down the street at Monterey, Mill Run, Avery Square, and
Autumn Woods. And under current circumstances, it would
reasonable to have them walk to their friends' houses.
May 23, 2023
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Oftentimes after school, the kids and I like to walk to the library
to read books and play games. We walk to the area events,
government buildings, and the churches. The walkability of this
area is truly something special and must be preserved.
I am concerned about adding this high-density apartment
complex and the other proposed developments here. I know that it
will change what is now a harmonious area. This will affect quality
of life.
For the record, our family is pro-development, but for this
project, we feel that a density much closer to that of the Growth
Management Plan would be a better fit while still allowing for a
suitable value for the seller and for the tax roll. Look at Palisades
and Cambridge Park as prime examples.
The applicant's proposed density will be tough, very tough.
The noise levels, activity, lighting, and traffic will all change. This
will definitely bring life-safety concern.
The Haven plan is essentially like trying to fit three dozen eggs
in a regular but fancier 12-egg package and saying nothing will
break. It does not fit the vision or framework of this area, and it's
not cohesive with the Growth Management Plan in place. The
Commission must look ahead and visualize what The Haven project
will look like 10 years from now. Will it look like the Carlisle
project with its parking lot now turned into a holding area for open
dumpsters, storage units, and debris?
There is, right now, only a chain-link fence with no landscaping
buffer separating the properties. The Carlisle staff takes items that
they are disposing out into the parking lot, and then they smash and
break the glass and other materials into the dumpster, not the type of
industrious activity that anyone would want to see from their
residence.
As commissioners, you are entrusted to protect and defend the
May 23, 2023
Page 92
best interest of the county and its residents. I plead with you to
make the right decision on behalf of the existing residents and this
community by denying this application in its current state.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, can I ask you a question?
MS. PALMER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So -- just to not have you come
back here, so you're the leader of what community? Of the HOA in
what community?
MS. PALMER: I'm at Il Regalo.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So when you've watched
the Carlisle do all these unacceptable things, what has -- what have
you or any of the community leaders done to meet with the Carlisle
so that dumpsters are covered, more landscape is included, glass isn't
broken? What has been done to address that?
MS. PALMER: Well, the first thing is, you know, we wanted
to give them the benefit of the doubt. We know there was a
hurricane. We wondered, is this something going on because
they're, you know, taking care of problems? Flooding? That type
of thing.
So we looked at open permits. We want to know, is there an
open permit that justifies this use. If so, it's understandable.
Unfortunately, we didn't see anything.
So our next step in this process is to be to talk to the manager of
the Carlisle, go to Code Enforcement. But the bigger picture here is
that this is something that -- you know, is this something that people
find normal for this type of use? Is this the type of thing? These
projects are overflowing, and they do need a place for garbage, for
dumpsters, and it needs to be thought out so that there is a good
location for this when they do need it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. And I ask that not
to -- totally separate from this, but I appreciate that you're -- you
May 23, 2023
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know, you've stepped forward as a community leader. And we have
departments here in the county that can oversee that, and we actually
have had a lot of success. So this is sort of separate from this. But I
don't want to miss this nugget, because there's actually quite a few
communities that have had this issue where the dumpsters started to
get more sloppy, the noise more, you know, out of standard and, you
know, different communities started to take some liberties, and we've
been able to jump on that quickly.
You know, like I said, we have leadership in this building here
that can go out and partner with you to make sure that we get the
Carlisle's attention if, in fact, you know, all these things are, like you
said, sort of ramping up out of the norm.
So, you know, I take that as a side. But whatever we can do at
the county, if it's -- if it's you that want to take up that charge or join
with us, or there's other HOA members, you know, that
certainly -- we got those complaints a lot after Hurricane Ian,
obviously, like you said, and then some came back to us and said,
hey, it's just temporary. You know, we've got a lot of damage.
We've got a lot of contractors here. This isn't going to be the norm.
Some others turned out to continue to be the norm.
But there are ways that we can attack that. So it's separate from
this issue, but not really. I mean, you just brought it up, so I
appreciate it.
So I'm logging that away. I want to hear from somebody, and,
obviously, this is Commissioner Hall's district, but what you said had
merit for sure, and we've seen it in other places, so I just wanted to
get clarification.
Thank you, ma'am.
MS. PALMER: Thank you so much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dan Flinn, and he'll be
followed by Ralf Brookes.
May 23, 2023
Page 94
MR. FLINN: Good morning.
MR. MILLER: Sir, you need to be on the microphone, please.
MR. FLINN: I'm sorry. My name is Daniel Flinn. I'm a
retired veterinarian living in Walden Oaks, a community of 321
homes located directly across from the proposed North Haven [sic]
community and the adjacent proposed medical center and storage
facility one property north.
Walden Oaks is located on Airport-Pulling Road. Our
entrance/exit access is directly across from the proposed North Haven
community.
Our residents, when coming from the north, must cross three
lanes of traffic to enter our community, using a short access lane.
This has caused a backup onto Airport-Pulling when more than six
cars are waiting to make the turn. Likewise, our residents, upon
leaving our community, desiring to go south must cross three lanes of
traffic to make the U-turn or proceed to Orange Blossom to make the
U-turn, again crossing three lanes of traffic.
We share these issues with the community Windward Isles,
consisting of 30 homes, which is adjacent to Walden Oaks. The
addition of 330 units on the proposed North Haven will have an
additional 5- to 700 cars accessing these lanes on Airport, creating a
significant safety hazard for residents; vendors; school buses, as we
have a number of children; and guests utilizing these access points.
I do not have a concern with development of a piece of property.
My concern is maximizing the density on property without regard to
daily safety issues being created by the additional resident units being
added to the area.
The residents of Walden Oaks are asking the commissioners to
deny the high-density 60-foot-high apartment complex which would
be 43 percent higher than the nearest neighboring complex, the
42-foot Carlisle retirement community.
May 23, 2023
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We are asking you to protect this beautiful part of Naples.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Ralf Brookes. He'll be
followed by H. Michael Mogil. Mr. Brookes has been ceded
additional time from Joseph Ognibene.
Joseph, are you here?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I do not see Joseph.
Dan Huprich?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Dan is here. So Mr. Brookes will have a total
of six minutes.
MR. BROOKES: Good morning. My name is Ralf Brookes,
attorney. I'm board certified in city, county, and local government
law, and I'm here today representing the residents of the Orange
Blossom/Airport Road Alliance. I think you heard before they have
some 3,000 members that have signed petitions from 14 communities
in the area.
I think you've also heard that the highest nearby building is
42 feet, and here they're asking for 60 feet. I think you heard also
that the nearby densities at the properties, Bear Creek apartments, is
14 units per acre, and here they're asking for 23 on Tract B. If we
look at other apartment complexes that are going to have affordable
attainable units, the Ascend apartment complex is 11.9 units per acre.
So Ascend earned 11.9 units per acre, and they have 62 affordable
units.
There's two things that are in front of you today. One is a
Comp Plan amendment, and all Comp Plan amendments, the Florida
Supreme Court has said, are legislative. So you can say no to a
Comp Plan amendment, particularly one that's generated by an
applicant and not by your own staff for any rational reason. You can
May 23, 2023
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just simply say no.
The rezonings, the Florida Supreme Court ruled in the Snyder
case that it's the developer's obligation to show you that they're
consistent with the Comp Plan, including your affordable housing
density bonus table and other things that you've looked at.
And you can -- even if a developer shows they're consistent with
the Comp Plan or changes your Comp Plan to try to gain more
consistency, you can still say no to a rezoning for any legitimate
public purpose.
This project is too dense; it's too tall for the surrounding
neighborhoods, and that's relevant to the existing land-use pattern;
that's your Planned Unit Development Criteria 10.
It also grants, in my opinion, a special privilege because you're
allowing them to exceed that affordable housing density.
They're -- if they were to obtain 12 units bonus, up to 16 units -- and I
think they're saying they're at 12 overall, even if you count the
existing Carlisle ACLF, which although they may claim they're
hospital-type beds, they're actually independent living facilities. The
people there live much like anyone in an apartment would.
So, again, they'd have to have 80 percent of their units
affordable to get less than what they're asking for. So you're letting
them have more density, but you're not requiring the 80 percent of the
units be affordable.
If you look at that chart, you want to examine it quite closely,
and that will bring that to light, that at 12 units an acre, you have to
have 80 percent of their units at 80 percent average median income.
Then you can go up 12 units per acre as a bonus, and in no event
shall you exceed 16 units per acre. Here they're asking for 23 units
per acre, and on Tract B, which is this development, they're only
giving you something like 22 percent affordable housing, so not
80 percent.
May 23, 2023
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So if you really want to promote affordable housing, you should
hold them to the same standard that we're promoting for everybody
else. If we let them get away with providing less than is required to
get that density, then that takes away the incentive for other
developers to go really pursue affordable housing as an option.
I just had a few more things. The area, you've heard from the
residents, is primarily low-density single-family homes. There are
two- and three-story low-rise condominiums, but there are no
four-story. There's a one-story library, a one-story government
office, a one-story church, and the only place that it's three-story
nearby is the Carlisle community, and now they want to take this to
four stories. So we'd ask that you not do that. That would establish
a precedent for the area as well.
Citizen testimony that you've heard today from the member
representatives of our alliance and also additional residents out here
today, you can consider that to be competent substantial evidence as
long as it's fact-based, as long as it's based on observations. The
aerials, the drone footage, the maps of the surrounding area, that's all
valid reasons that you can use in your rezoning to deny, including
traffic safety. Even if you meet traffic levels of service, if there are
concerns about safety, if we know that this area is the third-highest
accidents and it has problems with traffic, you can certainly approve
something less than what they're asking for. You can direct staff to
create a Comp Plan amendment for this area that would be cohesive
with the rest of the area and consistent with your Comprehensive
Plan. You don't have to approve every developer's request for an
applicant-generated Comp Plan amendment.
Again, they don't even own this property, so this is an
opportunity now to establish what could go on this property. And
we don't want to waste that opportunity. And if we're going to
affordable housing, let's do it right and require more than 22 percent.
May 23, 2023
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And let's lower the height and let's lower the density.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is H. Michael Mogil. He
will be followed by Mara Foley.
MR. MOGIL: Good morning. I don't know where to start
here. This is my first exposure to this project. I didn't even know
about it until a friend told me about it. I live five miles away from it,
but I am a frequent traveler to Orange Blossom Library because I
tutor students there as well as many, many other tutors, and I travel
down Airport all the time to get around the area. So I'm impacted by
this project even though I live five miles away, and I knew nothing
about it.
I went on the county website to try to find information about it.
There was all types of information on the site and forms that's
unintelligible to me. I'm sorry. I'm a scientist, but it was
unintelligible. And there's a sign on the road, the big sign that says
"development." We're going to do this. We're going to have
meetings.
That sign is parallel to the roadway. If I don't stop to take a
picture of it and study it later or drive by trying to take a picture of
it -- although I am good at that as a storm chaser -- the problem is, I
can't get that information. That sign is not posted at the website
telling me, we're going to do this project. Comment on it.
Everyone around Naples is impacted by this corridor. They drive all
the city. They're on this corridor.
I want to recommend that anytime there's a development project,
the county take a picture of the sign, put a map on the website and
stick pictures of those signs and a link to where all the information is
about development. Otherwise, there's no sunshine for me. I'm in
the dark.
But even more important than that is I want to talk about traffic.
May 23, 2023
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There's two exits from the Orange Blossom Library and the
government complex, which are both very busy places, by the way,
and people usually come out of those wanting to make a left turn to
get to Airport-Pulling.
There are many days when, at 4:00 and 5:00 in the afternoon, I
can't make a left turn out of the library because there's so much traffic
coming eastbound on Orange Blossom Library. Add this project,
with the entrance and exit on the other side of the road, and you're
asking for car crashes. Seriously, it's tough over there.
The development that was mentioned a few minutes ago from
Ascend is on Vanderbilt Beach Road, and it's the same problem as we
have at this one: There is basically one exit from the development
with hundreds of cars that are going to be going out of that
development, one entrance and one exit.
I also wonder whether or not the numbers of projected traffic
increase from that development are realistic. I was HOA president
at an association in Maryland, and the traffic study that was done had
the traffic going the wrong way at rush hour traffic in order to come
up with better numbers. We sent it back to them to redo the study
and, lo and behold, they would make all types of changes.
So thank you for your time. I'm going to be involved in this.
It's important. And it goes far beyond the Airport/Orange Blossom
corridor. It's all of Naples.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Mara Foley. She'll be
followed by Laura -- is it Quintans?
MS. QUINTANO: Quintano.
MR. MILLER: Quintano. Thank you. I'm sorry. I could not
read your writing.
Mara.
MS. FOLEY: Good afternoon, Commissioners. For the
record, Mara Foley with Habitat for Humanity of Collier County.
May 23, 2023
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I wanted to let you know that we did speak with the developers
on this project. We think it's a very thoughtful design, and we're
excited to see that the affordable housing commitment is voluntarily
being made. Other developers are making commitments closer to
120 percent and below of the area median income, while this group is
coming in and making a commitment of 100 percent and 80 percent
and below of the area median income.
If this project is not approved as it's proposed, I find it hard to
believe that somebody else will be able to make the numbers work
and that we'll have affordable housing on this site. It's a great
location, close to jobs, keeping traffic down and keeping folks where
they -- where they work and play. So I support this project, and I
appreciate your time today.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Laura Quintano. She'll
be followed by Dan Capes.
MS. QUINTANO: Thank you. My name is Laura Quintano.
I am a retired resident living in Calusa Bay. I'm not a public
speaker, but I'm here to tell you that I oppose the project and oppose
the Growth Management Plan exception in exchange for the
affordable housing.
I worked in a midsized city in the Midwest and was the quality
control analyst over our affordable housing portfolio. There are
many ways to do affordable housing in both the financing and in the
agreements, but plans and promises do not bring affordable housing.
If there's no enforceable land-use restriction agreement, there will not
be long-term affordable housing.
So I stand with the Orange Blossom Coalition, and I appreciate
the time that you provided to me.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dan Capes. He'll be
followed by Val Daniyar.
MR. CAPES: Yes. My name is Dan Capes. I appreciate
May 23, 2023
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your time. All the other speakers have covered the details and the
numbers. I'll just relay an anecdotal experience for you.
We've lived off of Orange Blossom for 23 years. We live in
Emerald Lakes. Some of you look older than me, some younger.
Those younger, congratulations. But when we moved there, there
was no library, no county services. There was the animal shelter
there. We could hear the dogs at night howling, and there were
horses out there.
Across the street there was an empty lot. Around the corner
there was an empty parcel. We understood that there would be
growth, and that's the nature of it. Most people have not lived here
their whole lives, right? So we have to balance growth with the
people that are here already, the community.
I remember when your predecessors were going to build the
library and the community -- the services building, we were afraid
there would be some huge building there. Your predecessors
balanced community needs with maintaining character.
When the community across the street was going to be built
from an empty parcel, we were afraid there would be giant buildings.
Your predecessors balanced growth with community feel. It's
happened over and over again.
Now we're at the ninth inning, if you like baseball, you know,
we're at the last few parcels in that area. If you allow this to go in at
this height and this density, then the next community -- the next
development's going to say, why not us, and the next development,
that's all there in that corner. You're going to change a very
community-feeling area into a commercial-feeling area. And the
traffic, all those other considerations are there too. But this plan is
too much in too small of a place. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Val Daniyar. He'll be
followed by David Recklitis.
May 23, 2023
Page 102
Val? Did you --
MR. RECKLITIS: David.
David. Val, I'm sorry. Go ahead, sir.
MR. DANIYAR: Yes, yes. Dear Commissioners, thank you
very much for allowing me to speak here. And I'm speaking against
this project because we lived in the Orange Blossom community, my
family, for almost 20 years. There is a definitive character to the
community, and allowing such density to be increased will definitely
impair all of the efforts by all of the communities around Orange
Blossom to continue with beautification, to mitigate damages by the
hurricane.
Another topic that I wanted to bring up to you is that the -- it's
been already talked about -- the traffic and the safety. Safety to
where our kids do walk to the library, do walk to the churches, do
walk to the cultural events that take place. They bike. And the
increasing density here, we already see the impact of higher
impact -- higher traffic.
Another thing is that the current requirements of the code will
make the buildings stand taller as the newer raised buildings are
being built there. And I wanted to see the environmental studies that
are backed up by Water Management, because we -- as the last
hurricane showed to us, we do have major concerns about water
congregation in certain areas around the older communities, also in
the areas of natural habitat preservation.
So, for example, the area of natural preservation -- natural
preserve between Stonegate and the Mill Run is constantly
overflooded. We have problems with the mosquitoes, with the
wildlife growth, with certain things that are not being controlled or
addressed.
Such density will significantly impact water congregation in
those areas. It will make it worse. It will make it less manageable,
May 23, 2023
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and there'll be all sorts of different outcomes that we do not have the
proper studies for.
So besides all of the concerns that were already voiced here, I
urge you, Commissioners, to look at the environmental and water
management studies deeper and deny this project, because high
density will definitely impact Orange Blossom besides all the safety
concerns.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is David Recklitis. He'll be
followed on Zoom by Joseph Whalen.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, how many more do we
have?
MR. MILLER: Three.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm just trying to judge the time.
So what we'll do is we're going to finish public comment, then we're
going to take a lunch break so that we can have a nice division
of -- and then we'll have probably Mr. Bosi come up to the podium,
would be my guess, after lunch.
Go ahead, sir.
MR. RECKLITIS: Thank you, esteemed Commissioners.
I've been in the area for 20 years, and have noticed the growth.
We've got two seasons. In season, out of season type of thing. And
in season's pretty traumatic for a lot of people.
And, of course, a lot of compliments go for the framework
developers of the growth program that's going on. But,
unfortunately, it's -- history's repeating itself. We're getting
overpopulated, and that's just naturally by single-resident families
with their kids getting driver's licenses and everything else.
And recently, no one's mentioned anything about Siena Lakes.
They just put in, like, 170 units over there. Now there's no more
parking over at the Publix supermarket. Sam's Club, you've got to
May 23, 2023
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scoot and skedaddle to get a parking spot sometimes.
I'm a victim of COVID. I now suffer chronic pain. I have
bilateral hip replacements. A lot of the stuff -- parking farther away
is not really a big issue, you know, right now for me, because I can
still hobble along, but a few years from now, that's going to be like,
hey, there's no more parking spaces here. How am I supposed to get
from in and out of the store, let alone --
We're overpopulated as it is. That's just from Siena Lakes
going in. Maybe we should stop for a little bit and see the complete
impact of what Siena Lakes has done, maybe just put a freeze on
these buildings going on. Putting in more buildings is like insanity.
I mean, it's been attributed to a couple people that insanity is doing
the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Right now you make that turn going down to JC Boulevard or
Naples Boulevard, the traffic's horrendous by the time you hit Pine
Ridge. It's just like, where do all these cars come from? You go the
other way, same thing going to Vanderbilt. The traffic is just
horrendous.
And the lines are getting extremely blurred in between season
and out of season. A lot more people are staying here. So I don't
know, you might be thinking, maybe we should expand our parking
lots instead of putting houses on top of houses and stacking people on
top of people to make more residents and more units.
I think we need to take a look at exactly where we're going with
this growth program and maybe reconsider a couple of these items of
allowing extra people to be living on top of people three, four stories
tall.
I mean, hey, let's just put in single-residency houses and stuff. I
think that's probably a little bit better to go for.
Thank you for listening to me. Please have a pleasant
afternoon.
May 23, 2023
Page 105
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker on Zoom is Joseph Whalen.
He'll be followed on Zoom by Lawrence Smith.
Mr. Whalen, you should be getting prompted to unmute your
microphone, if you'll do so at this time. And there you are.
Mr. Whalen, you have three minutes, sir.
MR. WHALEN: Thank you.
Good afternoon. My name is Joe Whalen. I'm with the
ownership group at Carlisle Naples. I'm here to observe the
proceedings. I have no other comments at this time. Thank you
very much.
MR. MILLER: Thank you, sir.
Your next speaker on Zoom is Lawrence Smith.
Mr. Smith, you should be prompted to unmute your microphone,
if you'll do so at this time. And, Mr. Smith, I see unmuted. You
have three minutes, sir.
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you,
Commissioners.
My name is Lawrence Smith, and I am president of Bridgewater
Bay representing over a thousand very concerned residents. I'm also
a commercial and housing developer in Boston in our nation's capitol,
namely Georgetown, Washington, D.C.
I would urge this board to deny, d-e-n-y. D is for dangerous.
All -- previous speakers have spoken about the dangerous
intersection in this area. It is one of the most dangerous intersections
in all of Naples. We have significant traffic coming from Orange
Blossom with over 8,000 residents in this area. It is a residential
area. Don't let planning staff describe 8,000-plus residents along
Orange Blossom as anything but residential.
I would point out that in the Growth Management Plan, those
commercial uses are supposed to be supportive for the surrounding
community. Those are the ones that are placed at the intersections.
May 23, 2023
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Now, while I'm very, very supportive of affordable housing, I
think they're giving up some of the potential commercial use of this
site that could be residential supported.
I also want to point out some things on the dangerous traffic that
we're seeing in the area. It's been mentioned about the dangerous
traffic weaving pattern for anyone that's pulling out of the site onto
Airport-Pulling, much more than the existing -- existing weaving
patterns.
The county is already looking at having to repave the
intersection by the Greek Church, the nursery, namely this
intersection of Airport-Pulling and Orange Blossom. The time for
the other developer to repave that road has come and gone.
The county and our citizens, our needing to spend tax dollars to
repair other developers' mistakes in the immediate area is not the way
to go.
Please don't create a dangerous precedent in giving a height
variance and allowing a dangerous density bonus for a developer that
has not done their proper due diligence and technical submission for
this rezoning. This rezoning is a privilege. It's not a right. The
five other developments that they are comparing this project to, such
as Lely, are not comparable at all to Orange Blossom and
Airport-Pulling.
One of the commissioners mentioned the -- you know, the
priceless nature of one life. Well, this is a very, very dangerous
intersection.
E, examine. Examine the roads out there. It's absurd to me
that this developer is allowed to use the ITE Trip Generation Manual,
a manual even in its 11th edition that is over two years old and does
not -- they have not done a detailed traffic study of that intersection.
So the previous speaker mentioned level of service. They don't
even know what the level of service is at that intersection. But I can
May 23, 2023
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tell you from my experience, it's Level of Service F, meaning failed.
N. N is for need. While I respect the need for affordable
housing, I also respect the N, which is the commissioners should be
negotiating this. I think the planning staff should have negotiated
the management plan. We do need affordable housing, but we don't
need to give this project away.
Deny it or reduce it to 150 units or less, what is their matter of
right to get three-story matter-of-right housing? Develop -- the
developer will be able to generate revenue of well over five million
annually. Those project costs are going to be reducing in proportion.
He will be easily able to get 5.5 percent. Do you know what
5.5 percent of this project would cap out at in value? It's
tremendous.
So negotiate with the developer for affordable units in all four
categories. Carriage units, one-bedroom units, two-bedroom units,
and one-bedroom [sic] units.
I did the math, and if you -- if you apply the unit -- instead of
talking about units, talk about bedrooms. The developer kind of tap-
danced around that he wasn't going to be restricted to applying this
affordable housing in all categories. Even if he went to the
matter-of-right level, let's just say 150 units, and applied his
22 percent, which is very low for affordable housing requirement, he
would come up with 73 bedrooms versus the 76 that he's proposing
just in using one-bedroom units.
I would also point out that in many, many other states -- and I
suspect your affordable housing guidelines are going to
change -- they require this 25 percent, or they require that the specific
ratios be spread across the entire housing type that the development
has.
Affordable housing units are supposed to be transparent to the
community. They're not supposed to be all jammed into the smallest
May 23, 2023
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one-bedroom units.
So why Y, finally, Y. Y is for you. We are residents, and we
are asking you to deny this, to pause. This project will certainly
come back. It is far too well-located, and there's far too much
money to be made for any developer for it not to come back. We
will applaud your leadership when you deny this and bring this back
to a better project to us. We ask you to deny. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: That's your final speaker.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All right. We're going to
take a break. We're going to come back here at -- let's see. Let's
come back here at an even 1:30.
(A luncheon recess was had from 12:25 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I know it goes without
saying, but if you have a cell phone that you haven't silenced -- you
know, we did hear some good music during the last meeting but,
seriously, you know, just out of respect for everybody, it's not a huge
showstopper, but when you leave for lunch a lot of times we all turn
our phones back on, so let's do that.
I don't know, unless there's any objections from my peers, I just
think that the next likely person I'd like to bring to the podium is
Mr. Bosi. His name was said, you know, maybe in vain, you know,
multiple times, but, you know, I know we really respect his position
and everything he has to say when it comes to analysis.
So, Mr. Bosi, we're all ears.
MR. BOSI: Thank you, Chair. Mike Bosi, Planning and
Zoning director.
Just to put on the record, the petition has been reviewed by all
the individual departments and divisions, Transportation, Utilities,
Environmental, a lot of the things that were mentioned. Staff is
recommending approval on both the Growth Management Plan and
the request for the commercial PUD -- or mixed-use PUD. It was a
May 23, 2023
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recommendation of approval from the Planning Commission 4 to 2.
I think the earlier presenters highlighted the two objectors, what they
were looking for.
From staff's perspective, there was a lot of things that were put
on the presentation attributing what was the allowed density or wasn't
allowed density. There must have been some mis- -- or some
confusion during our discussions, because some of the numbers that
were attributed weren't correct, but that's all right. They're not
looking to utilize the provisions of the Growth Management Plan.
They're submitting a Growth Management Plan amendment to allow
for the density that's being requested as well as, you know, the
22.6 percent affordable housing.
One of the things that I would like to let the Commission know,
that right across -- right across Airport Road, there's the Long View
PUD. And the Long View PUD -- and this is just in terms of overall
height and consistency. The Long View Center PUD allows for an
actual height of 62 feet. So what -- the statements were that if you
allowed 60 feet, you were going to be 40 percent above what's
currently built. That may be the case, but a prior board has already
established that 62 -- 62 feet is an appropriate height within this area.
Another of the -- of an attribute that was a statement that was
attributed to me was this area is not an activity center, and I agree;
this area is not an activity center, but what I have also said is this
activity -- or this area functions like an activity center. There's four
corners. There's four corners within this intersection, none of them
are residential. None of them are residential. One of them allows
62 feet of actual height.
So I don't disagree, though, that there's residential properties to
the north and to the west and to the south.
Interesting, if you look down at the Bear Creek PUD, that was
developed in the '90s as an affordable housing program. It was
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allocated at 14 units an acre, the highest allowed outside of an
activity center. So this -- the county has already looked at this
intersection and has, in the past, deemed it appropriate for affordable
housing. And one of the reasons why I believe that that is a decision
or -- that was made is because of the number of employment
opportunities that are within this local area. If you look to the north,
there's an activity center at Orange Blossom -- not Orange Blossom,
but Airport Road and Vanderbilt. If you look to the south below
Bear Creek, you've got another development, Arbor Walk. That was
an affordable housing development as well developed at 12 units an
acre. Below that is an industrial plaza, and below that is another
activity center.
So the number of job opportunities within the localized area are
prevalent. And one of the things that we're trying to promote with
the -- with the addition of affordable housing, we're not going to
reduce the traffic because we're adding more units, but what we're
going to do is we're going to reduce the trip lengths, and the location
has everything to do with that, the location of having a prevalence of
jobs within a close proximity towards where the affordable housing
location is. The logical conclusion is there will be a reduction in the
overall trips that will need to be traveled.
I've said it to this Board of County Commissioners a number of
times: We import 45,000 people a day to fill the economic needs of
this county. They drive from outside the county towards wherever
their workplace of destination and back. Those are long trip lengths.
What we're trying to do is allow -- to shorten some of those, a
percentage of those, and we feel that this has the opportunity to
provide for a community benefit within the provision.
There's been a lot made of 2.06, which is in our Land
Development Code. That table that they kept referring to is not a
Growth Management Plan provision. That is the -- that is the
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Page 111
implementation arm of the policies to promote affordable housing
that's contained within your Growth Management Plan.
But one of the problems that we've seen within 2.06 is it was
originally developed in the 1990s as part of a tax credit program for
the true affordable housing providers who look to -- look for tax
credits as well as other subsidies to help buy down the costs.
The proposal that is being put forward today is for a market rate
provider of housing. He can -- they can also set aside a provision for
affordable housing, but affordable housing's not their main game.
They don't work in the tax credit system. They just work and try to
allow for their units that are market rate to buy down and pay for the
cost of the affordable units.
Another aspect that I wanted to point out -- and it's been stated
here a couple times and I just wanted to remind the Board -- the
Growth Management Plan is not a stacked document. It was
adopted in 1989, and it's not the same document that was adopted in
'89. It's been amended hundreds of times. Because -- it's been
adopted hundreds of times, because it's got concepts and principles
that we're trying to obtain.
When we find that the land-use arrangement that's provided for
within our Growth Management Plan or our Land Development Code
is not yielding the results that those polices are trying to promote, we
amend it. We amend it internally. We also allow the private
development side to amend it. We understand that the marketplace
understands what there is in terms of an overall need. They submit a
Growth Management Plan amendment, we analyze the data and
analyze that are provided for, we make an evaluation, provide those
factors to the Planning Commission, the Planning Commission would
make a recommendation to the Board, and the Board of County
Commissioners makes a determination if they feel it's appropriate to
amend the Growth Management Plan.
May 23, 2023
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So it's not a great exception that's being proposed. In the last
three years, we have set aside close to 2,500 units that are dedicated
to affordable housing. The majority of those were set aside through
the Growth Management Plan amendment process. So this is
something the Board of County Commissioners has routinely done to
advance affordable housing in the right locations. And we do feel
that this is the right location because the focus of this project is going
to be directed towards Airport Road, a six-lane divided highway that
we feel has the capacity to be able to accept the impacts of the traffic,
and the impacts of the intensity of this project focus towards that road
and not focus towards Orange Blossom.
So for a lot of those individual reasons -- and I have Cormac
Giblin here as well as Mike Sawyer from the Transportation
Department, Trinity Scott. If you had any questions about any of
those disciplines, they can most certainly come up, and staff would
entertain any questions that you may have related to the project.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I've got plenty of questions.
Go ahead, Commissioner Saunders. I can see you reaching.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, just a couple for
clarification. What is permitted there right now in terms of the
maximum numbers of units they could build on that parcel just the
way it is right now, or units per acre, I guess?
MR. BOSI: One unit per five acres. It's ag.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. So they would be
able to build -- is it four units? They've got a little over 20 acres
there with everything combined?
MR. BOSI: The one parcel that's zoned -- that's -- that is
10 acres by itself right now; they could develop two houses per the
current zoning.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: They're including more
property into the application. So would that be three, then?
May 23, 2023
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MR. BOSI: Well, it depends on how much -- I mean,
you're -- if you're talking about 15, then you could have three,
because it's one to five. It's a very low --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Even I can handle that math.
MR. BOSI: Yeah, yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm just trying to find out
how many units they have on the property.
MR. BOSI: There's --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right. So if we
approved a project there with an affordable housing component, what
are some of the benefits in terms of upping the density that they could
get? And I realize that we can pretty much do what we want in
terms of density, but just from a staff perspective or just informing
me, if they were able to rezone this and get density bonus points and
affordable housing bonus, what are the numbers of units that they
could get in addition?
MR. BOSI: So if you're asking me, what was the maximum
number of units that they could get without a -- or without a GMP
amendment?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Correct.
MR. BOSI: They would be entitled to a base of four. They
have a -- they have an infill -- residential infill bonus of three units
per acre as well we have an affordable housing bonus opportunity for
12 additional units, but because this is outside of an activity center,
the Future Land Use Map in the Density Rating System would cap
them to below 16 units an acre. It would be basically 15 units an
acre.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So they could get 15 units an
acre. And this is on the 10 acres we're talking about?
MR. BOSI: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Because there's been some
May 23, 2023
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discussion about 150 units.
MR. BOSI: It's on the 10 acres, yes, yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's all. I just wanted
some clarification, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let's see where my questions are.
Most of these are sort of statements based on what other people have
said.
And, Mr. Bosi, you've answered my questions on traffic and trip
lengths.
Let me see if -- what did you -- repeat again what you said
about -- you know, we heard some folks come up here and said, oh,
my gosh, if it's above 42 feet, impossible, crazy, disaster. And I'm
summarizing, but -- or paraphrasing improperly. But you said
something where you said, ah, not so fast, Commissioner. There
actually have been some changes that have happened that don't make
this such a giant leap. Say it properly with what the -- you know,
your area of expertise is.
MR. BOSI: The south -- southeast corner of Airport
Blossom -- or Airport Road and Orange Blossom, the southeast
corner of that intersection allows for an actual height of 62 feet, so
that establishes the maximum height that's --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Nothing is there that's 62 feet, but
it could be, is what you're saying?
MR. BOSI: That parcel's undeveloped -- hasn't been developed
yet. The expectation would be that they would get close to the
62 feet that is permitted.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, one thing I will say to
those citizens -- and I might be a little bit out of order -- out of
sequence here, but, you know, we had something similar, you know,
to this on Isles of Capri, not the same, but, you know, a contentious
issue that, you know, either people wanted nothing or they wanted
May 23, 2023
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commercial or they wanted something sort of in the middle -- and,
you know, the reality is, I mean -- you know, I always say there's no
vacant land in Collier County. There's only undeveloped land. The
only thing that's vacant is the Everglades, and so everything else is
undeveloped.
You've answered my question about the height, but I
remember -- you know, not going back in time to Isles of Capri, but I
remember a lot of citizens coming up here and going, well, if you
approve this condo unit at a certain height, then, basically, you've
opened up the floodgates and every single person now is going to get
gigantic units, and we all sat up here and said, that's preposterous.
We vote on everything separately.
So if something is 50 feet, it doesn't mean that that's the new
standard. Even though citizens might think that, I think we've said
no to plenty of things up here that had other things in the area. So
everything stands on its own. We look at traffic. We look at water.
We look at density. We look at population. We look at the schools
and all those other things.
So, you know, that, to me, is something that doesn't hold a lot of
water. We're in here deciding on this one particular thing. So I
realize there's other tracts of land, but I don't think anybody up here is
going to say, well, we've set that precedent, so everything's going to
be, now, 60 feet or higher. I mean, we've proven that in this room,
and maybe not with the people that are in here now, so they haven't
had the benefit of sort of hearing, you know, what we've heard on
other things we've voted on, but it's fact.
I'm glad to hear that there was -- and this is where maybe more
of these are statements -- that there was good NIM participation even
though it sounded like it was probably contentious and not extremely
positive. I always say, you know, the beauty of NIMs is you want to
go in there and try to negotiate a bit. Maybe there was some of that.
May 23, 2023
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You know, obviously the landowner and developer made some
changes, so, you know, that was good.
The gentleman that spoke first, you don't need to come up to the
podium, but some notes I made here while you were speaking, and
you said you represent a very large group. And first of all, thank
you so much for your professional, well-thought-out, eloquent
comments. Whoever picked you as the spokesperson, that's what
you want to do in here. So the 15 people that all said, I don't want to
speak on the microphone. I'm scared, and I'm not great, you know, I
might even do that -- but that's what you want to do, one person. So
if anybody's watching this, when we get through all of this, 30 people
all telling us we're stupid and we're ruining their community is not
the same as one gentleman coming up here going, you know, we're
trying to find balance, and I'm representing a lot of people.
But a couple things that I did write down, and you said you're
representing a large group that aren't trying to put nothing there,
you're not that -- you know, I don't want to say, like, naive or that
short-sighted. You realize something is going to go there. You are
supportive of affordable housing and the needs for it.
But what I would tell you is, you're not up here representing
everybody because we got -- and you know that. But we got
hundreds of emails that sounded just like this, okay, and here's the
email. I won't read the person's name. But my colleagues got these
exact emails from tons of people that must not be in your group.
I strongly oppose The Haven affordable housing project. This
will have a major negative impact on our community. Now, when I
read those, great. I love citizen input, but this is total NIMBY, not in
my backyard, because if you were in here two weeks ago or two
months ago, we had people in here with pitchforks -- sharpening their
pitchforks and with lit torches all telling us we're stupid because
there's a huge affordable housing issue in Collier County, and we've
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done nothing about it.
But then the minute we try to do something in somebody's
neighborhood, then you get 300 emails like this that say, well, yeah, I
want you to do something about it, but build it out in Immokalee
behind a bunch of redwood trees that nobody can see. And, you
know, that's not realistic as well.
So, you know, that's -- you didn't say anything wrong or
anything that was without merit, but I will tell you, we're the only
ones up here that really heard from everybody, and everybody didn't
represent your position. There were people that sent us one email
and said, I do not want -- I got an email from somebody that said, the
reason why I don't want The Haven is because we all have very
expensive, beautiful homes, and these affordable housing projects
come in and wreck our community and lower our property values.
And the last sentence was almost verbatim: Find another place for
it.
And, you know, I mean, that's not realistic in here. And I'm not
saying we're going to shoehorn or force feed it in there, but that's
some of the feedback. So sometimes when people hear us vote and
wonder why that vote was so stupid to them, there's plenty of stimuli
we get from the local community that have, you know, other options
or other ideas.
The lady that was up here and was also very eloquent but
said -- and it's the young lady that used to work for the county here.
I think we all recognize her and appreciate her expertise. But one
thing I will disagree with is adding affordable housing does increase
density, and it does increase revenue, but the way it was presented
here is, wow, that greedy developer. We are in here mandating
affordable housing, so if this developer came up here and was naive
enough to say, we don't want to put any affordable housing here, this
meeting would be very short because I guarantee you my colleagues
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would jump on it and say, look, we're being -- been yelled at for the
last two years that we have no affordable housing in Collier County.
People are sleeping in their cars, how stupid we were to not pass the
60-day rental ordinance and, you know, we have no compassion for
affordable housing. Affordable housing is in this project because
this developer knows if they don't put it in there, we're going to make
them put it in there.
So it's not a matter of, you know, they -- and this is my own
perspective. I'm curious to hear from my colleagues, but it's not
because they sharpened their pencil, got new batteries for their
calculator, and said, wow, how can we squeeze more money out of
this project? We're making them do that, and so it has to be part of
almost every project. Not every project, but almost every one.
So, you know, spinning it on the other way and making it sound
like, you know, it's another greedy developer who's just looking for
more density and is, you know, squeezing or sneaking affordable
housing in there, trust me, if they don't -- if they don't put it in there,
we're going to make them in most cases.
Crash rates, okay, I'm dealing with this a lot in my district. Just
because there's a ton of accidents at a very busy intersection where a
lot of people have crashes doesn't mean that we don't -- that we won't
add more development there.
If Sheriff Rambosk was here, crash rates mean a whole bunch of
things. It might mean -- might mean that this community has a
bunch of unsafe drivers who are impatient and don't -- you know, are
trying to cross six lanes and not make a right-hand turn and make a
safe U-turn. Maybe they, you know, have to get a kid to school or
do whatever. But, you know, when somebody tries to connect for
our decision, well, there's really a lot of crashes there, I mean, that's
not a reason for us to say, okay, then we won't put any more
development there.
May 23, 2023
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If we didn't -- if we didn't add development in places that just
had a lot of accidents, then you might as well put a lock on that door,
and we're done in Collier County building anything.
And on the flip side is I would love to dive in with our traffic
experts on that, because when we have areas where there's a lot of
crashes or unsafe, we had stop signs, we get more -- we get with
FDOT, we add more streetlights, we add more turn lanes, we make
streets wider. We do all kinds of things. We add more crosswalks.
We do -- you know, so that's sort of like an apples and chairs kind of
thing that, you know, if the connection is, well, it's so dangerous at
that intersection now, it doesn't make me look at this project and say,
well then, you know, all the remaining vacant land, undeveloped
land, in this district has to stay that way, because we can't, you know,
put anything else into it.
And then, you know, lastly, I'll just say there were several
people that were talking about what a disaster -- I actually wrote it
down verbatim -- one or two people said it -- such a disaster in this
location right now because of density, population, traffic, crashes,
and all of that.
But when I look at the proposal that was made, I sit here and go,
wow, just lowering the project by 50 units, 100 units, 90 units is
going to make such a gigantic -- if it's such a disaster, we should
maybe shut down some of the apartment complexes that are down
there, because it seems like it's unsafe with what's down there now.
And, you know, I'm being a little bit, you know, facetious and
partially sarcastic. But, really, to make the point that, you know, the
proposal of, you know, a few less affordable units and few of this, I
mean, that, to me, is negligible. I mean, either it's a total disaster
and this project does not belong on that property at all and it needs to
be something totally different or, you know, the small little changes
here and there. I mean, yeah, every car matters, but, I mean, I'm -- I
May 23, 2023
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don't think sitting here going, well, you know, instead of 76 units,
you know, we're okay with 60. You know, that reminds me of just
sitting here trying to negotiate on the purchase of a car. Well, you
know, I'll pay 45, but I'll offer 35, and maybe they'll take 37. And,
you know, we're trying to make bigger strategic decisions here than
that.
So I look at the proposal. And I appreciate citizens trying to get
it down to the smallest possible acceptable level, but in my eyes, the
difference between what I see is the smallest acceptable level, at least
to the largest group that's represented here, and what's being
presented to me is negligible. It's not going to -- it's not going to put
10,000 less cars on the road. It's -- you know, it's not going to make
that kind of gigantic impact.
And to me, also, the four stories -- one of the things I'd asked
Mr. Bosi -- and maybe this is a question. I sit here, and when I look
at height -- I got emails from some people that I don't even think
when they look out any -- look outside of any window of their home
will ever -- will actually be able to see this building, yet they wrote
me a page-and-a-half email talking about how the height is totally
going to ruin the community. And I'm not saying they don't leave
their house. But, you know, this is your area of expertise.
I'm hearing from you that the difference between three stories
and four stories in the big strategic landscape of this area is negligible
or not a factor. And, there again, much like for the Isle of Capri
issue where I caught a lot of spears and even people did here, it was
after every single department in the county recommended the
decision that we unanimously made.
I'm hearing the same thing here after all of your analysis and
traffic and everything. Every department in the county is
recommending that we approve this, correct, as is?
MR. BOSI: Yes. Yes, sir.
May 23, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And then, you know, the
first part of my question was: If it was four stories, with your
analysis looking at the entire landscape and sort of taking sort of the
personalization that a lot of times citizens have, and that does have
merit. So I'm not discounting that. But we also have to look at the
strategic landscape. Is it -- is it so egregious that going from 42 to
60 feet does something that we really, really need to take a second
look at?
MR. BOSI: There is a concept in the field of planning, and
it's -- it's based upon graduation and the gradual increase or decrease
of intensity in height. And related to intensity -- related to the
density and intensity related to the height, this is an appropriate way
in which the planning field would treat it.
At your corner, you would -- in your most intensity -- because,
like I said, at these four intersections, it's nonresidential. So that's
your most intense uses.
You would have your highest intensity of density, intensity of
use, and intensity of height. As you pull that back, you would step
down. You'd step down to a 40-foot Carlisle. You would step
down to a two- or three-story multifamily of Bear Creek Apartments,
from the -- from the 60 feet down to 42 feet down to the
single-family. That's a normal transition within an urban area.
This is squarely within the urban area of Collier County. You
would expect to have buildings three and four stories within this type
of an environment. It's one of the reasons, I believe, why across the
street there is a PUD that allows 62 feet in height because of its urban
location, because of it -- because of where it sits within the corner of
an intersection of two minor and major collector roads. And the
concept of stepping down the height and the density is within this
component, and as you get further away from that intersection, the
height and the density increases.
May 23, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: My last comment's going to be
about the Growth Management Plan. You know, we have the
Golden Gate master plan, which we use as a very stringent guideline.
Growth Management Plan, you know, falls in sort of that same
category, obviously. In District 1 right now, we've got the East
Naples overlay, which is going to be sort of like our Growth
Management Plan, so to speak, if it's approved, basically giving
guidelines.
But as somebody said here -- and, you know, I'll finish sort of
the quote, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and
over and over again. Some of these plans are quite dated. And I
don't know that we had as many people sleeping in their cars and who
needed affordable housing, and it's not just, you know, the nurses and
the firefighters. Actually, I hear from people in my community that
say, stop talking about the nurses and firefighters. You know, the
nurse at NCH makes a pretty good wage. My husband's an
out-of-work mechanic, and I'm a waitress at two different restaurants.
We're the people that you need to, you know, sort of focus on.
And when you see even the reduced rates for affordable
housing, this is an expensive place to live. You know, these aren't
units that are going to be $400 a month. But we've got to do
something.
So I know a lot of times when a community doesn't want
something, they immediately throw up the Growth Management Plan.
You know, Commissioner Saunders is very used to the Golden Gate
Master Plan, and that has merit, that has value. No question there
are times where we throw that up and we vote against something
because we think it's so egregiously going to conflict with a plan.
But also, too, as you said, Mr. Bosi, unless I misunderstood you,
we have deviated at times for the plan when it made sense. And I
think we have to have that latitude, that smarts, that forward thinking
May 23, 2023
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to adjust to a community that isn't the same as it was in 1983 or '93 or
'73. And, you know, I don't want to have the definition of insanity
which is, well, we just keep doing the same thing. And then once we
feel like the balloon is inflated, then we just back off and go, hey, we
can't do anything anymore. We've got some serious, you know,
issues out there.
One of the things I did like about this plan was the
aggressiveness of the affordable housing. And, yeah, does it put
money in the developer's pocket? Well, whatever they build there is
going to do that. But I can tell you, if the developer came to this
podium and didn't mention affordable housing, I got news for you,
we'd all be stepping over each other trying to say, wait a minute, you
know, this is in the nerve center of Naples. There are some places
where affordable housing doesn't make sense, but you hit the nail on
the head with the shorter trips.
And I will tell you also -- we also got a lot of emails that came
sort of later in the game, but to my colleagues, correct me if I'm
wrong, from businesspeople who said, you know, don't miss an
opportunity to do something there.
And I appreciate what the gentleman said at the beginning that
spoke very eloquently and said, hey, we're not naive enough to stand
up here and just say, you know, the county should buy it and turn it
into a park. We've heard that before.
But the reality is this is a major nerve center, a major nucleus of
Naples, and it was brought to our attention by a lot of business
owners who are salivating over something going there. And, you
know, to the residents' credit here, I don't think anybody in this room
is saying, please put nothing there, and dismissed. It's finding that
right algorithm.
I've got every commissioner lit up. Obviously, I want to hear
from everyone, especially Commissioner Hall, because I think he's
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probably burned the most hours on this, has heard from more people
than all of us have, but I know that our in-boxes have been full.
Actually going to -- for the first time in a while, I'm going to go
a little bit out of ordinary only because I do want to hear from
Commissioner Hall, and he's lit up here second.
So, Commissioner Hall, we'll hear from you, and, Commissioner
Kowal, you're on deck, and then Commissioner McDaniel.
So, Commissioner Hall, over to you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Great. First of all, I want to say
thanks to Mr. Renner. He did a great job.
Just like the Chairman commented, it's not that this
neighborhood is not looking for anything. They understand that
growth is going to happen. And like the creativity of this deal, I like
the fact that they -- you know, it has joined forces with the Carlisle
and that they -- you know, they increased their acreage to get their
density to ask. It's a beautiful rendering. I appreciate the fact that
they tried to make some concessions at the NIMs.
CPC -- or the Planning Commission and staff has -- they're
all -- they're all for this. The AHAC is for it because they're all
excited about the affordable housing -- there's 76 units that can be
affordable, and they're all excited about that.
You know, our Comp Plan was designed a while ago, but it was
also designed around the road capacities. We have more property to
develop. We don't have any more property for our roads.
The roads were designed per the plan, and this project being
allowable is evident, but whether it's desirable is the question. I've
spent a lot of time since a candidate at these -- at these meetings with
this alliance, and they've been well-organized, they've been
well -- well thought out. They don't want the project. And it's not
because it's a NIMBY. It's not because -- I mean, I read that -- I read
those emails, and there were some like that. But the majority of the
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emails that I got and the majority of the feedback from the public
from 4,000 households -- that's a lot of people in District 2, and they
don't want the project because they don't want the height, and they
don't want the density.
So the Carlisle being included, the Carlisle's not going to add
anything to this project. Yes, in this PUD, they're proposing to bring
the Carlisle up to current standards there, their square foot ratio, but
the Carlisle can stand alone on that.
The way I look at this, this is a 336-unit complex that's wanting
to be put on 10 acres. You can add -- you can add PUDs, you can do
everything you want to, but there's a 10-acre spot of land there that
has -- that's where the property's going. That's 33 units an acre. I
don't care how else you split it up. You can say, well, we've got
15 acres, and it's 25. Well, it's -- we got 27 acres in the PUD. It's
only 12 units an acre. What reality is is it's 336 units going on a
10-acre piece of land.
And understanding that, I ran -- I ran with an understanding that
my role was to protect and secure the rights of the citizens. I like the
project; they don't. It's not my decision whether I like it or not; it's
their decision. It's -- I represent them. Their message has been
loud; their message has been clear.
And so I also ran on smart growth. And there's nobody in the
room that -- and I also ran on affordable housing. That's a big thing
with me. But knowing that it's still a 336-unit on a 10-acre
plat -- and the affordability thing to me is a carrot. It's an effort. It's
a showing of, yes, we care, and we want to provide that. But it's a
carrot to get 266 more units of market-rate homes to -- you know, to
put on that 10-acre spot.
The Bible says with faith and patience, we inherit the promises.
So I'm willing to take -- I'm willing to put my faith out there that
there's somebody else that's willing to build more affordable units on
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that 10 acres, and I'm willing to be a little bit more patient about it.
So with those thoughts, I'm going to oppose this project based
on what the people have wanted and be patient enough to think that
there's somebody else that's going to come along there and put more
affordable units on there. By state statute, if we can -- if we deem
this commercial at some point in time, the law says they have to have
at least 40 percent affordable homes.
So by rights, if somebody had it and you gave them seven units
an acre plus you gave them a six-unit bonus for affordable housing,
that's 13 -- that's 13 units an acre for a total amount of 130 acres [sic].
That's not a burdensome thing on the -- I don't even care if it was four
feet -- or four stories. That's really not my issue. My issue is
strictly the density of it.
And it is going to -- District 2 has the most traffic in the county.
And if you drive District 2 -- I know Commissioner McDaniel does,
because he comes in from the east all the time -- it's busy. It's
congested. It's heavy. And it's getting that way through the
summer. There's really not a big break between season and the
summer like there used to be.
So just to be able to add to it just because we can and it's
allowable and we can change the code or we can change the growth
plan, I'm not sure that's the smartest thing to do when, if we can just
be a little bit patient, we'll get some -- we'll get some affordable
homes in there, and that's a prime spot.
So I've said enough, but I'm going to oppose the deal.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Mr. Bosi, you answered a couple of my questions already,
because I was curious with the Growth Management Plan when it
was, it took adoption. I guess it was 1989. And I know
we've -- just through attrition and through just our growth, just the
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natural growth of this community, we -- you know, we've had to
make amendments to that.
And I know we all have been faced over the last several
years -- I know I had in my previous career with the Sheriff's
Department -- in retention of good people and retention of
recruitment, that we've been facing a housing issue for at least 10
years. So probably longer than the majority of the people in the
county have noticed it over the last few years.
And that makes sense, because, you know, if you stick to some
of these older plans, these older growth development plans,
and -- you know, it doesn't entice people to take their personal money
and their private money and invest it, you know, to fix this problem.
And the problem's grown because nobody wants to invest their
money, you know, into something that's not going to be profitable for
them in the end. I mean, that's how our market and that's how our
country's built through, you know, people investing their own money
into the market and expecting some sort of demand or some sort of
return on their investment.
So, you know, I just want to revisit -- I know we asked this
question earlier, and I didn't get a -- this particular property's zoned
ag, right?
MR. BOSI: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. And I heard some of the
people that are concerned about the project or this project wishing it
would be possibly a developer commercial come in and possibly ask
for a change to a commercial. I've heard that several times.
MR. BOSI: I think what they were alluding to was to Lutgert
rezone which is --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That was one of my other
questions --
MR. BOSI: The one parcel, yeah. It's one parcel up. It's
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being scheduled -- it's actually scheduled for the June 1st Planning
Commission meeting, but the Board meeting has not been
determined.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So I'll just go to that, then. So
we have the Lutgert which is just directly north of this project, which
is already zoned C1, C2, or C-3, correct?
MR. BOSI: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So July 1, when our Live Local
Act kicks in that the Governor passed that basically handcuffs us on
making any decisions in the future by right, could Lutgert sell this to
somebody else? And what could they possibly build on that piece of
property?
MR. BOSI: The way that --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Take into consideration the
school board building which is within one linear mile of there.
Anybody know the height of the school board building?
MR. BOSI: It's at least eight stories.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay.
MR. BOSI: The Senate Bill 102 allows for the highest density
allowed in a residential project within the county, as well as the
highest structure, commercial or residential, within a mile of this -- of
this area.
So the highest residential zoning that's allowed is contained
within the mini triangle mixed-use PUD. It allows residential at 92
units an acre. And if you can go up to eight stories, if there's an
eight-story structure within a mile of this -- of the Lutgert project,
they could develop at 92 units an acre at 85 feet, whatever the highest
structure would be. And they -- you don't have a right to -- you don't
have a right to deny that. That would be simply an administrative
application that would go to our Site Development Plan process.
They would have to satisfy the parking, water management, all the
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other criteria that would -- but if they've got a good engineering and
architectural firm, they'll be able to satisfy those. And as long as
they can satisfy every component of the Land Development Code,
then that SDP can be approved.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So we mentioned the lot
on the northeast corner of Orange Blossom and Airport, and you'd
said that is already possibly approved for a 62-foot project?
MR. BOSI: It's approved for a mixed-use for a commercial use
or for a church use. It's either/or.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So that's also a commercial lot?
MR. BOSI: Both of those -- on the northeast and the southeast,
both of those could be exercised from the Live Local Act as well as,
because they are commercially zoned.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So you could have another
80-some-foot building with 92 units per acre on that corner, and we
wouldn't have any say in that, correct?
MR. BOSI: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. How about the lot to the
southeast corner, which I believe is the nursery there now? Do you
know what that's zoned?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Commercial.
MR. BOSI: I believe it's commercial.
MR. YOVANOVICH: It's commercial.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay.
MR. BOSI: And with the commercial, it's the same -- the same
allotment would be provided for.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I guess where I'm going with
this is, I just don't -- I'm not one of them kind of guys I like to go to
Vegas because I like to gamble to a point. I don't like to gamble.
And, you know, I'm trying to look at the picture down the road that
we could -- what that corner could look like by law and by right.
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And none of us up here can do anything about it. And there's a
chance that that lot that we're talking about right now could ask for a
commercial conversion, like I've heard some people in here asking.
And if they decide not to go with the commercial building, they could
also take advantage of the by-right, correct?
MR. BOSI: That will be for the next 10 years, because that's
how long the Senate Bill 102 is set for. You're always going to have
to think in the back of your mind, any request to go to commercial,
industrial, or mixed-use could, at any time, if they were approved for
the zoning, would have that ability to exercise the rights that are
provided to them by the Florida Statutes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So I guess I'm just trying to put
something out here just to let people look at this outside of a box
looking in that -- what possibly could happen if you don't let this
project happen, that it could end up just being like the other three
corners that are on your intersection. And in a way, maybe this
would protect you from having a fourth building in your
neighborhood. I don't know. But, you know, I'm torn on this right
now, and I'm trying to find a good reason to where I'm going to make
a decision on which way I'm going to go. But I had to bring this up
and let everybody understand that this project might be a blessing,
not a curse.
So that's -- you basically answered my questions. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner -- yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Can I ask? I did have a
conversation yesterday if we did re- -- if we did get to this property
and did rezone it commercially, even with the Live Local Act, we
could do it conditional use limiting the height and the density for all
affordable housing. So we have that leeway. It's not like we're just
stuck. We're stuck with anything that's zoned commercial right now
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or as of July the 1st. But if we decide to do it commercial for that
reason, we have some leeway in that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I had a couple of questions.
And from a -- just an operational standpoint, do you think we ought
to hear from the applicant again?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, absolutely, I was going to let
you-all speak.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Okay. Who's in
charge of the oversight of the affordable -- of the affordable housing
units and the checks and balances? I didn't want to skip over the
applicant having an opportunity to rebut and talk about what's, in
fact, transpiring, but I did have a couple of questions of staff.
Cormac, are you the one in charge of the oversight with regard
to the affordability aspect of this development?
MR. GIBLIN: Sure, I can take the question.
Cormac Giblin, planning manager, for the record.
When it comes to monitoring, there is a two-tier process in place
for these types of commitments. One is, as part of their normal
annual PUD monitoring that takes place over at Growth
Management, on the anniversary date of their PUD approval, they
have to submit all of their monitoring, and they'll be reporting to the
county on everything from housing commitment, environmental,
traffic. Any other commitments that are in the PUD, there's an
annual report that they submit to the county that's then verified.
The second tier is when we're talking specifically about
affordable housing commitments, there's a separate monitoring team
over in the Public Services Division, over in the Housing and
Human -- Housing -- Community and Human Services Division
headed upon by Kristi Sonntag, the director, who they then go a step
further than the normal PUD monitoring and do a deep dive with
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on-site file examinations of all of the commitments on the housing
side that the development has committed to. So the details are in the
PUD, and then they monitor on a two-tier system at least yearly.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Are you okay with
that, Kristi? She's standing behind you there. I just -- she's the
one -- she's the one that's going to have to go out and actually
physically monitor this.
MS. SONNTAG: Kristi Sonntag, Community and Human
Services director.
Yes, Commissioner. We're fine with it. We have a schedule
where all of the commitments that you-all have made over the years,
we monitor them on an annual basis. And as Cormac explained, it's
a two-party process that we do. We do a pre-monitoring, because
some of the developments aren't developed, and then we do an actual
on-site monitoring where there's quite a list of criteria that we go
through to examine. We look at income. We look at if there's an
essential service personnel, is there a certification that they are an
essential service worker. Do they have fair housing polices? We
look at a variety of items. And I can certainly share that with the
Board if they'd like.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. There were -- and
this may be for Mr. Bosi. There were several comments made by the
Planning Commission, and I think I read in here that the adherences
to those recommendations are already included in -- and adjustments
by the applicant with regard to the development itself --
MR. BOSI: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- size, density, so on and so
forth. Okay.
And then my last comment would be -- and this is maybe when
we get to the applicant standpoint. I would like to see -- if this
project, in fact, goes forward, I would like to see more of a firm
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commitment on the types of affordable housing that are there of the
bedrooms as to how many are going to be one-bedroom,
two-bedroom, three-bedroom units. That's all.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'm going to go to
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you. I'd like to ask
Mr. Yovanovich a question or two, and this may require him to talk
to his client while we're having other people speaking.
It seems to me that there's a general understanding from the
community that three stories is not a problem, that we're really
talking about height here, not necessarily the number of units, but
we're really talk about the height.
And so for you -- my question for you and for your client is, if
we limited this to three stories, I don't know how many units you
could get on three stories, so that would be one question. How many
units can you actually physically build in a project that was three
stories instead of four?
I think that gets us somewhere between a denial, potentially,
and, you know, the four stories that is proposed. So I'm just posing
that question to you. Perhaps you could talk to your client, just see
if that's something that may be a compromise position to think about.
I know you said that -- I know you've said that the project's not
quickly viable unless it has 336 units and it's four stories, but I'm not
so sure I would agree with that. But I've never built a building. I
know Commissioner Hall has --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So did I.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- been involved in those
construction matters, and his view would be very significant. But it
I'm just kind of winging it here seeing if there's some compromise
position to be in.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I'm going to have to take a break before
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I --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. And I'm not asking
you to make any kind of a statement now, because you may
have -- you may have four votes. I'm just trying to get you to think
about --
MR. YOVANOVICH: I understand, and I appreciate it.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: In the event that you don't.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What I would say, since I
don't -- since all the commissioners have at least asked their first
round of questions, then I was going to call you back. So you're in
the right spot now.
The floor is yours. You've heard a lot of comments back and
forth, a lot of numbers thrown around and different things. So as
Commissioner McDaniel was saying, we want to hear from the
applicant in response to a lot of those things or maybe any new
information that you have.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, I do -- I wish -- Troy, is there a
way to pull -- or how do I pull the presentation back up just so I can
go to our site plan real quick?
MR. MILLER: Give me just a minute, Rich.
MR. YOVANOVICH: You know, that will actually work.
That's perfect. Can you see -- is the visualizer -- thanks.
I just want to -- I just want to -- I hate to use the word "correct,"
but I can't think of a different word right now as to what's the real
size of the proposed project. It's not -- it's not a 10-acre piece. It's
really a 15-acre piece, because all we're really buying from the
Carlisle is their access road.
So we really have 15 acres on which we're putting this project.
Obviously, we have water management lakes and all that, so it's
really a 15-acre piece versus a 10-acre piece.
So I think the fair way to look at the density per acre is the 23
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units per acre, because even the residents were saying, this is -- we
want you to look at this as it's a 14, plus or minus, acre parcel.
That's 23 units per acre, which is right in the density that you guys
have recently transmitted to the state to change your affordable
housing process because the matrix doesn't work.
The matrix won't even let us get a bonus for anything rental
above 80 percent AMI. So even under -- I don't even qualify for
what Diane Flagg said was 10 units per acre because 10 percent of
my units are above 80 percent AMI.
Now, several people said, you know, what's the definition of
insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a
different result. I've been here since 1990. This matrix has been in
place since I was a young assistant county attorney, and the same
matrix has been there, and it doesn't work.
You haven't had a tax credit project come forward in Collier
County since I don't know when. I think -- I think Bear Creek may
have been approved when I was still here in 1994. You had a couple
on the East Trail. So the matrix doesn't work, and you've recognized
that, because you transmitted changes to this to get to the potential of
25 units per acre for affordable housing.
So I think we're consistent with what you're talking about. I
think what's getting lost -- and I think Mike did a great job of talking
about what's approved in this area, what businesses are there. But
you've received letters from employers who have been begging you
for years to help solve this problem.
You got a letter from NCH saying they have people driving
between 45 minutes and 90 minutes to get here. They support this
project. They see these 76 units as truly beneficial.
The Chamber of Commerce has sent a letter of support. The
school -- Stephanie Lucarelli with the school board has said, we need
this, and she gave her own personal story about wanting it for her
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own son who's now here working.
I want it for my kids.
Sunshine Ace Hardware, Michael, Michael Wynn has sent a
letter of support.
You have several letters of support from employers saying,
we've got a problem. We've got to do something about it, and we are
doing something about it. I appreciate -- I appreciate Commissioner
Hall's faith that something better's going to come along. It hasn't
come along in 33 years since I've been here. I've done one project
that actually used the matrix, because they only needed a very small
density bonus to make that work. So it's not working.
I think what you have -- I know what you have is you have a
project that, yes, it's creative, because it needed to be creative. In
order to get affordable housing done in today's market with the cost
of construction, the cost of borrowing money is you've got to be
creative, and you've got to look for solutions that work.
You've heard from every one of your experts. Trinity, with
transportation, they have signed off. Transportation is not an issue.
Mike, from a planning standpoint, all of his people have signed off.
You have businesses begging for this. This is a Class A
project, Class A project.
We can address the mixture of units, Commissioner McDaniel,
about -- and let me verify what I'm about to say, because I think I got
this right. We will commit that 22 percent of the one-bedrooms,
22 percent of the two-bedrooms, and 23 percent of the
three-bedrooms will be income restricted. So it will be spread out
throughout all of the different unit types instead of it being all ones.
Because people said we're just going to do all ones.
We'll spread that out through all of the different categories,
which I think there's testimony that we need all three of those
categories. Housing's been that -- we're willing to take that risk that
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we'll find somebody who will want to rent the three-bedrooms and
the risk that someone will want to rent the two-bedrooms to address
family needs, because people need this too. It's not just the
single-family person moving here looking for housing or living here
looking for housing.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So did I hear you say
66 percent or --
MR. YOVANOVICH: No, 22 percent of each unit type. So
we're going to do 22.6 across the board, but we'll spread out --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- whatever that math works out to. So
not 66 point whatever. If I said that, no, I didn't mean that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Now, you got me flustered.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sorry.
MR. YOVANOVICH: No, I'm kidding. But I don't know -- I
don't know a kind way of saying what I'm about to say, so I'm just
going to say it.
You've got 4,000 homes in this area. Not a single one of it's
contributing to the affordable housing. That entire group isn't
participating in solving the problem by providing affordable housing.
They are opposing 76 units that's on the outskirts of their
community on a six-lane road that everybody says is a good project,
is a good need, and will help. That's a staggering number of homes
that I guarantee you probably generate the need for 76 affordable
housing units just on their own, but they don't want to help.
And what -- and I get what they're saying. They're not -- they're
saying we're not opposed to affordable housing, but they want to put
in restrictions on the amount of units that means we can't build
affordable housing on this site. That's really what's happening is
they're not saying they're against it. They're -- but they're putting
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impositions on it that will result in no affordable housing being on
this site.
This is a good project. This is what your Affordable Housing
Committee wants. This is what your business community wants.
This is what the residents of Collier County want. And I guarantee
you, the four or five that are watching me today and how this is going
are going to be really nervous, if this one doesn't go through, whether
or not to continue with theirs. And the Ascend project on Vanderbilt
Beach Road that they're talking about, like, hey, this is a slam dunk
that's going to get approved, you haven't been to the NIMs I've been
to for projects that are affordable housing projects in Golden Gate
Estates where the Ascend project is located.
So I'm very passionate about this. I really think we need to do
something, and I think my client is willing to do a very, very good
project. Your staff is supporting it. Your Planning Commission is
supporting it. And it will be a shame if this one doesn't go, because I
think others won't go as well because the message I hear every time
is, I love the mission; I hate the location. It's never the right location
when we're doing projects like affordable housing.
This is a 23-unit-per-acre project, which is consistent with the
most recent transmittal. I think by committing to all having ones,
twos, and threes in this project is a very meaningful commitment.
I'm hopeful that you'll follow your staff's recommendation. I'm
hopeful that you'll follow your Planning Commission's
recommendation. I could pull all my experts back up here to do the
rebuttal. I don't really think I need to. I think Mr. Bosi, who's your
planning director, has done a good job summarizing why this is
compatible with the neighborhood, and I'm asking you to listen to
your staff in voting to approve this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'm going to go to
Commissioner Hall, and then I'm on deck.
May 23, 2023
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COMMISSIONER HALL: I appreciate all of the affordable
housing talk, but we're talking about 22 -- we're talking about one
unit out of 10 is affordable. This is not an affordable housing
project. This is a project that's going to include a carrot of
affordable housing. It's still, if -- without buying anything from the
Carlisle, that's a 10-acre plot with 336 units.
You can say we're going to do 15 acres. You can say we're
going to include the 27 acres. You can say whatever acres you want
to include, but without the Growth Management Plan amendment, it's
a 10-acre plot of land with 336 units, and that's why I'm opposing it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm going to make some statements
that are combined from Commissioner Kowal and Commissioner
Hall which I thought were very eloquent. I might come to a little bit
of a different conclusion, but, you know, Commissioner Hall stated,
you know, he's looking at what's allowable and what's desirable and
that, you know, this is only -- the affordable piece is only one in 10,
and that's a carrot. You know, I'm here to -- I'm here to say
that -- and maybe we should wait for something better.
I mean, I don't know about anybody else that's been in this room
over the last two years that I've been here, but every -- and if we want
to hear from citizens as a whole in the community -- and not just the
4,000. But we want to look strategically. I don't say this as a
critique or anything. We're having a good open conversation here.
What are we waiting for? How many people in here say we've
been waiting too damn long, and that's why people are sleeping in
their cars and there's no affordable. And if we think the affordable
piece is only one in 10, I got news for you: If we're waiting for
somebody to build something on this piece of property that's
100 percent affordable, we better open up the fifth floor and every
other conference room in here, because every single man, woman,
and child is going to say, I don't want government housing with 300
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affordable units in my community. Nobody wants 100 percent
affordable.
So I think we have to take it -- you say carrot, I say in pieces to
make it a much more cohesive project. I don't know anybody in this
community that's going to come in here and give us all hugs because
we built a 100 percent affordable housing project in their community.
I think the only reason why -- that something is desirable or even
possibly allowable is because it is a percentage. I think we do the
best job possible.
And, you know, Commissioner Saunders, I think, is a pro at this
one. He sits here and says, ah, 20 percent's great, but how about 25?
I mean, we had actually times in here where we were able to raise the
amount of affordable.
But, you know, I'll now defer to what Commissioner Kowal said
where he very eloquently was saying, look, we can sit here with
rose-colored glasses on and just sort of look at it through a
microscope at this project and make a decision, but be careful what
you wish for because we do know what's coming. And so, you
know, to use his words and to say this -- this could actually be a
positive compared to what's coming down the road where we don't
get to have a big conversation in here.
Now all of a sudden we've got the state telling us, wow, that's a
prime piece of real estate there. And one in 10 units being
affordable? That doesn't even -- that doesn't even meet the criteria
anymore. You should have built that when you had the chance.
Now we're going to tell you what goes on that piece of property.
And I know I'm overly summarizing, but, you know, Mr. Bosi,
correct me if I'm wrong and jump up on the podium if you need to,
but, you know, the direction we're getting from the state and from our
constituents is, you know, what are you waiting for? Why are you
splitting hairs on this, that, and the other? Affordable housing has
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already been missing in this community. And what I liked about this
project is I think it is allowable. I think it's desirable. I do like the
mix of it.
Before we vote, I'll just -- and we're maybe not ready to right
now, but I like the idea of taking a pregnant pause and taking a break
and having Mr. Yovanovich talk to his client. I mean, we're close up
to a break anyway -- to see if, you know, there's -- what the best
algorithm is.
But when I look at citizens that say 208 instead of 336 is
acceptable, okay, that's a little over a hundred difference. You
know, 62 affordable housing is better than 76. Citizens here are
actually saying that's -- that they're agreeable to that.
And I sit here and say, God, just a little over a dozen units is
making such a big difference when we've sat in here and had rocks
thrown at us that -- what are we waiting for? Why don't we -- why
aren't we injecting affordable housing percentages in every project?
And now we have one right in front of us, and, you know, we're
hearing -- I'm hearing some of my own colleagues say, let's wait and
see if anybody else comes, you know, forward, and maybe we'll
allow them to build a -- you know, a more affordable piece on that
piece of property.
Citizens out here want a development that's 80 percent
affordable housing units. I have emails here from people that they
didn't care what the number was. They just said, don't build
affordable housing units in my neighborhood because we have really
nice homes, and find another place for these blue-collar apartments.
I mean, somebody -- you know, more than a few people sent those
emails with almost those exact words.
So, you know, I'm want to make sure before we pass on an
opportunity here because, you know, of one story or 14 too many
units, that sort of thing, we might be missing an opportunity here, or
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we might be sitting here and getting something force fed on this
community. And I don't know that I like to roll the dice for that.
And I appreciate what Commissioner Hall's saying, oh, you
know, the people have spoken. But the way of government works
here is we don't just take a poll and, wow 4,000 people don't want it
in their community, so let's find a community where 4,000 people
aren't going to storm the castle, and then we'll shoehorn it into their
community.
We also have to look at code, land development, traffic. We
have things that we're here also representing, which is county
ordinances, county guidance. We're looking at the county in a
strategic way and say, okay, if not this neighborhood, then where?
And me, personally, I don't think it's, well, I don't think this is
perfect, so let's just wait and see what maybe comes along. We've
got people that -- these affordable units are going to go in one day,
and those people are going to say, man, I wish those units would have
been available five, 10 years ago. Where the heck were you, County
Commissioners? You were sitting on your hands and doing nothing.
And I don't want to be guilty of that. I'm not saying I love
every piece of this project. And my suggestion's going to be, since
we're creeping up on a 2:50 -- what we would take as 2:50 -- you
know, at 2:50, a 10-minute break to allow the applicant to talk to
maybe whoever he needs to, and he might come back and say there's
no changes, and then we at least vote on it.
But Commissioner Saunders was sort of alluding to that. And I
think, you know, this is such a major decision that we want to make
sure that you've got the chance to sort of reattack on something that
maybe we haven't had a chance to talk about here.
But I never want to be guilty of sitting here saying -- waiting. I
don't want to rush to judgment either. I'd rather do nothing than the
wrong thing, and I've said that before. But just as some other
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decisions we've made here, sometimes waiting isn't the best option
either.
And, as Commissioner Kowal said, we know what's coming
around the corner. Maybe these citizens aren't as informed. And
nothing negative, but we hear on a regular basis here, as elected
officials, what's coming from the state, and there's going to be a
whole bunch of things we're not going to be able to prevent because
4,000 people don't want it.
So we're in a very advantageous position right now, possibly,
and I want to make sure we exhaust this conversation before we kick
the can and hope for something better and then force feed something
on these good people and say, you know, too bad, so sad, and then
we're wishing, you know, we had a time machine to go back to this
afternoon.
I'm not saying these are the numbers that are, you know, the
best-case scenario, but I think, you know, being plus or minus a
dozen units here or there, to me, is negligible. It's not -- it's not that
huge of a difference. That's just me.
Anybody else?
COMMISSIONER HALL: I will say --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- if the petitioner goes back and
comes back with something different, we'll definitely entertain that.
All ears about that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
COMMISSIONER HALL: We're just -- they're just opposed as
it's written right now. But any changes, they're willing to listen.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, regardless of what
Mr. Yovanovich would say -- he might not need the time, but I'm
going to propose that we come back here at 2:55. That seems a little
excessive, but I don't think this is a 30-second phone call. And this
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is the biggest thing we have on the agenda today, so I don't want to
have a rush to judgment. So let's say we come back at 2:55, and
we'll resume.
(A brief recess was had from 2:29 p.m. to 2:55 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: You have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Mr. Yovanovich, the floor
is yours.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I can't -- I cannot -- first of all let
me -- I want to correct something, because I just wanted to -- I
misheard what Commissioner Hall said with regard to the number of
units that were being set aside. I thought he said one in 10. What
he said was one in five. I think, really, what we're setting aside
is -- because let's just use the 10 acres, even though I don't agree it's
10 acres, we could do 70 units for base, three infill. So that's 70.
We're asking for 336 total units. So that's a bump of 266.
We're willing to set aside 78 of those 266, which is a 30-percent
set-aside of the additional units. So I just want to get that on the
record because I think that's, you know, a significant percentage of
the units, the actual bonus units that are being set aside.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So did you just say 78 plus 70?
MR. YOVANOVICH: No. What I'm saying is of
the -- there's -- we're only asking for 266 additional units.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Additional units, of which they'll
give 78 of --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Of those.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- the bonus units, that’s where he’s
getting the 30 percent.
MR. YOVANOVICH: That's how that math --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Of the total units it's --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Still 22.6, right.
So we look at it -- we look at it as a total, but we can also look at
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it as the, quote, bonus number of units.
I cannot -- I talked to my client. Reducing it a floor is a
reduction of 80 units. That kills the project, and then you're going to
have to have the faith that someone's going to come along and
somehow figure out how to make this project work with 80 less units,
and I just, candidly, don't see that happening anytime soon. And this
is a -- this is a real-time problem right now. It's not a problem that
we're going to see in the future.
So I don't have any room to give on the floors because it's just
too big a -- just too big a give.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, just for the sake of
argument, because there might be people watching in this room or on
TV or what have you that say, well, you know, you could reduce the
floors to three and then just make a lot of the units on the three stores
that exist smaller so you could still have your overall number. I'm
not saying that's the approved solution, because like I think
somebody said in here, people are looking for more -- bigger than
one-bedroom apartments.
But I still think you play around with the algorithm, it's plus or
minus a very small number. We're not making a substantial
movement. But I assume you looked at that.
MR. YOVANOVICH: We have. I mean, they've done their
unit mix, figured it out. Because, remember, the level of amenities
that they're putting into this project, they have to generate enough
revenue to provide those amenities and maintain those amenities.
It's still -- it's still -- revenue is an important thing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What I would tell the community
is if we negotiated all that out of that, then, you're truly getting an
affordable housing, sort of low-income, you know, type of unit, and I
think, you know, a lot of the emails I got, there were people that
didn't even want this because it had any affordable housing in it.
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Maybe it wasn't the majority, and you can't -- I mean, to me, I
don't -- I don't -- I can't keep score and make a judgment call and say,
I got 80 emails for and 40 emails against, so I'm going to support the
people that are for or that sort of thing. I mean, I think we've got to
look at it more strategically. But to your minority point, you've
looked at that.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That if you look off an entire floor,
there's no way. You sit there -- and another developer would have to
do the same thing. I mean --
MR. YOVANOVICH: The math's the math for a Class A
project, and that's what Collier County is. Collier County is a
Class A -- is a Class A community, and that's what we're delivering,
and none of my clients want to build that other option.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
MR. YOVANOVICH: So my client will just simply walk away
if they lose the 80 units, and --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, and neither do your
neighbors and residents, according to the people that I hear from.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders, and then,
Commissioner Hall, you're on deck.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'd like to ask Ms. Scott if
you would come up to the microphone. I will say that I'm not too
terribly concerned about the density or the height, quite frankly. I
know that that's not what people want to hear, but I am very
concerned about the transportation aspects of it.
And this is going to result in two entrances on Airport Road,
right-in, right-out only, and it's going to result in which a certain
number of U-turn movements somewhere were along Airport Road,
and I want -- I need to understand how those movements are going to
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work and whether that's going to create a problem, because traffic is
pretty heavy on Airport Road. I don't want to turn Airport Road into
Immokalee Road. I know we're not getting there, but I just want to
make sure if this goes through that we're not creating a problem on
Airport Road.
MS. SCOTT: For the record, Trinity Scott, Transportation
Services department head.
Airport Road is currently operating at a Level of Service D in
this particular area, which is within our acceptable levels of service,
which is where we -- why we recommended approval of the project.
With regard to U-turns, with the second entrance, it does
allow -- that's further south on the project. It does allow people to
come out.
In that particular section of Airport Road, there are several
U-turn opportunities, and if you come out on that south end, you
would be going down to make a U-turn at the car dealership, opposite
the car dealership, which has different peak times than what a
residential development has. So we believe that folks could go
down and use that.
If that U-turn is backed up, there's yet another U-turn further
south as well. It all depends on what someone's final destination is.
They may decide to go down and go Pine Ridge Road, go through the
industrial park through Trade Center Way; there's lots of
opportunities to get around in that area. But if Publix is their
destination, there's a Publix to the north; there's a Publix to the south.
There's commercial all around that area.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So you don't anticipate this
creating any particular problem?
MS. SCOTT: No. We will evaluate it when they come in for
their Site Development Plan. They will look at the turn lane links
along the corridor. If there are turn lanes that need to be widened, it
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will be their responsibility as part of their project to do that, but we
do that evaluation at Site Development Plan when we know what
they will actually be building.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Are there any improvements
to the Airport Road to alleviate that -- to improve the -- you're at
Level of Service D right now. That's only going to get worse. Are
there any improvements we can make? I know we're looking at a
whole lot of different roads, and this is way into the future, but just
curious as to whether there are improvements to Airport Road in that
area.
MS. SCOTT: So in this particular area, one area that we have
been looking at is improvements to the intersection of Airport and
Orange Blossom. We have been working with the developments as
they come in at that immediate corner to obtain additional
right-of-way to be able to do some intersection improvements there.
You're very familiar -- the Board's very familiar with our Pine
Ridge Road study that we completed from Livingston over to Napa,
which resulted in some innovative intersections. We are looking at
doing something similar at Pine Ridge Road, which would look at the
intersection of Pine Ridge Road and Airport Road.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No roundabout?
MS. SCOTT: No roundabout, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I would like to ask
Mr. Yovanovich a question. We're at 22 percent. Is that the amount
of affordable housing that you're -- is it 22-and-a-half percent?
MR. YOVANOVICH: 22.6 percent.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: 22.6.
And, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to see us get closer to 25 percent
going forward. And I did talk to the -- Mr. Yovanovich about
bumping this to 25 percent, and that's not possible with this project.
But I would like to ask that Mr. Yovanovich talk to his client
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about the possibility of making a contribution to our Affordable
Housing Trust Fund, some dollar amount per unit, perhaps $1,000 a
unit or something, which would be actually very significant if you're
looking at 326 -- 336 units. It's a big number.
But as we're going through this discussion, I would like for
Mr. Yovanovich to talk to his client about whether there could be a
contribution to our Affordable Housing Trust Fund. And I
understand that that would -- if there is going to be any kind of a
contribution, I understand that that would have to be tied to sales or
COs or something, similar to what we did with Mr. Ferraro's project.
Just a thought. That would help me get over the hump here.
That's all, Mr. Chairman, for right now.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, I like that idea. And I know
sometimes, you know, folks look at that and say, oh, they're buying
their way out of it. When we start spending that money on really
good things, those, quote-unquote, "donations" to that trust fund are
going to prove extremely valuable, so I like that.
Commissioner Hall, and, Commissioner Kowal, you're on deck.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Just a couple of comments about
the transportation, you know, the level of service on Airport being
Level D. That gets me back to what's allowable and what's
desirable.
And then, with regard to the other properties that are out there
on those corners and what could be, the what-ifs are still the what-ifs.
Whether we approve or disapprove this project, those what-ifs are
still -- we don't -- this decision doesn't have anything to do with
those.
And then, lastly, with -- come on down, Dave, if you would.
With the regard of the people not wanting affordable housing or me
trying to kick this down the road, that's simply not true. So if you
would, just briefly in a minute or two just share with my colleagues
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what you shared with me at the break.
MR. RENNER: Yeah. Well, first of all -- and thank you,
Commissioner Hall.
The Orange Blossom/Airport Road Alliance of 14 communities,
a vast majority of the residents -- and I'm sure there are other
residents out there from all over that made comments, but our group
from the beginning has been very clear with me and or whole
leadership team -- and we have members from all the
communities -- that we are fine with all of -- all of this being
affordable at lower height and lower density, whatever that is. We
are fine with taking our chances in the future if this is denied.
I did a quick MapQuest also, and the school building is more
than a mile away. It's about 1.7 miles away, so I know that comment
was made earlier. But, you know, we are -- we like the idea of more
affordable housing on this piece of land or other pieces of land there.
We think that's good for our community; that's good for our
neighborhood, regardless of what the -- even at 100 percent, we'd be
okay with that. But we're concerned about height and density.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thanks, David.
MR. RENNER: Okay. Thank you.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Just to clarify, the Ritz in Tiburon is
within a mile, and that is about -- the height is equivalent to 80 to 100
feet. So, that's -- that's the real measure, not necessarily the school
board building, but I just wanted...
Now, back to the comment or the question you asked me about
the contribution, I think the contribution would be fine if it was only
on the market-rate units so we didn't get double smacked on the
market-rate units and also provide the income restricted. So that's
still a $250,000 commitment. I mean, when you look at -- when you
think about that, $1,000 per, whatever 336 minus -- so, yeah, minus
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76, is -- that's 250.
COMMISSIONER HALL: 260.
MR. YOVANOVICH: 260.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right.
MR. YOVANOVICH: So that's --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I was assuming we were
going to be somewhere around 250 or 260. My math was obviously
not very good. So, yeah, that's fine. I mean, as far as I'm
concerned, that's fine.
MR. YOVANOVICH: So I think that, you know, it's -- I really
don't believe the community would be happy with a 100 percent
affordable housing commitment, but I can't speak for Mr. Renner.
But I can tell you that the community is also fighting the Lutgert
project too, so there's -- there is this angst from the community on
height overall, and it won't be limited to just this project.
So I think what we're proposing is a great project. If you
compare it to Allura and you go by Allura, that's -- that's an
affordable housing aspect to it, and it's, you know, a fabulous project
that the community would be very proud of.
I think we are -- you know, with 30 percent of the bonus units
being set aside and another thousand dollars per unit for the
affordable housing, we are -- we are -- I think you're doing a
nice -- you're making a nice dent in a problem that Collier County is
addressing -- or suffering right now, and you don't have to wait a
couple years to find that person who may be able to afford the
100 percent affordable project.
So we're requesting your approval with the modifications that
we've just made.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I actually had a question for
Trinity in reference to traffic. And I kind of feel the same way as
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Commissioner Saunders. I mean, I think the density, it may be just
slightly a little -- but I think it's -- it's doable. And the height is not
really a problem. When you look -- you really look at the
surrounding -- if you go up Orange Blossom another 600 feet, I
mean, you've got buildings just as tall or maybe taller that are being
built there right now before you get to the school.
So my question is more in the lines of, you know, this is going
to have some affordable housing units. It's going to have some
single-bedroom apartments and things like that.
And we talk about traffic. Is there going to -- in your
professional opinion, do you think a percentage of these people are
going to use public transit, especially if they work in some of these
community centers, you know, to the north and the south, and that
will remove some vehicle traffic from the roadways?
MS. SCOTT: They very well may. In addition, they are along
a route that does go up and connect with -- a connector that goes to
Lee County as well. It connects with our link, which is up at
Creekside. So this is actually one of our more robust routes as far as
from a Collier County coverage standpoint. It does go the entire
length of Airport Road and does make that connection up on the
north end.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So people that work in
the hospitals, people that work in different areas like that would have
access to public transit from this community and be able to make
those connections --
MS. SCOTT: Yes, this --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- and leave their cars at home,
even if they have a car?
MS. SCOTT: Yes. The specific route that this covers
would -- if they boarded the bus on the opposite side of the road,
which they could board up near Orange Blossom, they would be able
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to go up and get directly in front of the North Collier Regional
Hospital.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I don't have anybody else
lit up. Anybody have any follow-up questions or make a motion or
bring up Mr. Bosi? That's always fun.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I'm going to
make a motion that will be unpopular with some folks here, but I
think it's the right thing.
I'm going to make a motion to approve this with the different
changes that we've talked about, plus the 250 -- it's a $250,000,
ultimately, contribution to the trust fund tied to COs, I think, would
be the fair way to do it.
MR. YOVANOVICH: (Nods head.)
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think this is going to
solve -- help solve a lot of problems, and I don't really believe it's
going to create a significant impact on that -- on the community. So
I'm going to make a motion to approve that with these alterations.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm going to second that motion,
and here's my comments. I agree with Commissioner Saunders. I
don't want to say I'm not concerned with density or height. We're
always concerned with that, and he means the same thing. But I
don't see density or height being a problem here.
The questions I had about traffic were answered by Trinity.
Anytime we have a development that comes in, traffic's not going to
get better. It's going to get worse. What we want to know is, is it
going to explode beyond what -- the capability of the road. And if it
is but it's fixable with wider turn lanes and things like that, then we
take a look at that. I like the changes with the addition -- the
additions that Commissioner Saunders made.
May 23, 2023
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And then, lastly, I'll say, this doesn't solve the affordable
housing problem, but we've had so many -- so many of our
citizens -- and they matter as well -- saying stop waiting, stop
waiting, stop waiting. And so I think you've got to start somewhere.
And we've already approved several things where we were so proud
of ourselves because it had 20 percent affordable housing or 25.
So are, you know, I think we've got to strategically look across
the whole county. And even though you might have a community
that has a consensus and feels a certain way, although I appreciate
that, and I respect that and I respect it, I've had to vote for very
specific things, even in my own district, that, you know, the citizens
came in here with matching shirts and felt a certain way. But, you
know, we take a look at the overall strategic view.
So, lastly, I'll just say, you know, we can do anything, but we
can't do everything. And so I think finding a cohesive, balanced
approach and taking bites out of this affordable housing option -- and
this isn't just an affordable housing project. It does other things.
There's going to be people that want to live in this community, and
they're going to buy the more -- or they're going to rent the more
expensive apartments because they want to be at ground zero where
there's a lot of commercial activity and a lot of jobs.
And so what I like about this project is I actually don't think
anybody is going to be banging on tables in a positive way if we ever
had a 100 percent affordable housing project come to us and they're
going to say, yes, that's exactly what we want, everything in there to
be affordable. Be careful what you wish for, because I don't think
that you would like the look of that because it would be very no frills.
And I also don't think when we're trying to build a cohesive
community here in Collier County, the same way I don't want a
whole strip of storage units all next to each other, and that train left
the station, I think we don't want big, giant units in certain strategic
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spots all over Collier County that are 100 percent affordable. I think
we want to share the wealth, spread the load, and I think this does
that.
So I second Commissioner Saunders' motion. I don't have any
commissioners lit up. So I have a -- I have a motion to approve and
a second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes 4-1.
Okay, County Manager, what's next?
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to Item 15,
staff communication -- staff and commission general
communications.
Item #15A
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENT
Item 15A is public comments on general topics not on the
current or future agenda by individuals not already heard during
previous public comment.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Wait, wait, wait. Take your time.
If people can just exit quietly and professionally, we're not done for
the day.
MS. PATTERSON: No speakers, Troy?
May 23, 2023
Page 156
MR. MILLER: No speakers on this item.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Ms. Patterson.
Item #15C
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
MS. PATTERSON: We do not have staff project updates
today, so that brings us to staff and commission general
communications.
First of all, just a reminder that we have a workshop this
Thursday on the state veterans nursing home. It's in this room at
3:00 p.m.
Also for your calendars, and we'll be sending this out to your
assistants, June 15th, 2023, at 9:00 a.m. is our budget workshop.
Also, just one more -- one more matter is, as we move towards
the summer, working some items through Planning Commission, we
did have an item go to the Planning Commission last week that was
more controversial than expected. We had expected some public
opposition. It's a storage facility out on 951. Expected some
neighborhood opposition. Turned out to be a lot more opposition
than expected. We have been working with the applicant on that
about scheduling. Traditionally --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Is this District 3, the parcel
between the two FPL substations?
MS. PATTERSON: It is, it is. So we have been working with
these applicants. I think some people had gotten the impression that
with us working through the summer, it became open season for land
use, but you-all had been specific with us that we were going to
continue on our long practice of not hearing controversial land-use
items in the summer.
May 23, 2023
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So two reasons why we've been careful to schedule things even
on the shoulders of the deep summer, one, is obviously the seasonal
factor, which we experience a lot here in the urban area, but the
second is that Golden Gate Estates in some of our other areas where
people are more year-round, we do have that time of year when
people are taking their vacations, particularly with their kids.
And we have had some criticism in the past when we've taken
things like project meetings for roads or stormwater out into the
Estates and other areas where people felt that they couldn't be there
because this was their only time to really vacation with their kids.
So we had cautioned the applicant that if they had difficulties at
the Planning Commission, that the likelihood was that that item was
going to move to September at the earliest to be sure that we were
giving the public a full chance to be able to air their concerns and to
work hard to try to solve those public problems as well as the internal
problems we were having. This is a very transportation-driven issue;
however, the neighborhood has come out with more objections that
have nothing to do transportation.
So I wanted to bring that to the Board's attention. The applicant
had been pretty vocal about wanting to get to the Board in June.
Staff remains reluctant to schedule that for a late June hearing
specifically due to those things that I outlined.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I ask a question in that
regard?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and, again, you know,
I appreciate the thought processes with regard to withholding
contentious land-use items. The month of June has always been part
of the Board's schedule. You know, the extra two meetings in
August and the one meeting in July are the ones that I was specific
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about withholding contentious land-use items on.
My question is -- and, again, you know, what's going to get
better between the second meeting in June and September?
MS. PATTERSON: We had hoped things were going to get
better between May, when I had the conversation with the applicant,
and now, that they would have worked through some of these issues
both with the neighborhood as well as with transportation.
I think two things is -- one is that it's the perception that we're
pushing this forward against some pretty -- much larger public
opposition than we expected in a time when we know that a lot of
folks are taking vacations with their family, similar to when we push
items onto the agenda when we know folks aren't back from up north.
That's just the staff's perspective.
And I've worked here now 23 years looking at land use. We're
very careful what we put onto the agenda on the shoulders of either
season or summer simply because of being sensitive to the public's
needs on both of those things. So we, traditionally, have reserved
even the July meetings for no land use because that's when we set the
maximum millage rate and deal with a lot of our administrative issues
before going on what was summer recess.
Same thing coming back so -- on the shoulder of that, late June
and then September had been reserved because, again, we don't have
folks either here, returned, or people have been out on summer
vacations, and also you deal with, in September, four meetings.
You'll have a budget hearing, then you have a Board meeting, then
you have a budget hearing, then you have a Board meeting. So
we've been very careful in the scheduling of land use because of
those things.
But that's why I'm bringing it to all of you. In the event that
there's any different opinions or if you feel comfortable with bringing
the petition, then we want to be sure we're being consistent with your
May 23, 2023
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direction. I believe I heard your direction, and I think that keeping
them off of the agenda is consistent with how we've dealt with these
items in the past, but, obviously, you are the ones that tell me what to
do.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Commissioner Saunders,
how do you feel?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: He's lit up. I was just going to
say.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, he actually hit his
button. I didn't.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Hey. You don't have the gavel
anymore. I got this. I got this.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If this was scheduled, it
would be the second meeting in June; is that what we're talking
about?
MS. PATTERSON: It would be.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think when we -- even
during the discussion when we were setting the summer schedule to
include those other three meetings, I think we were pretty clear in
saying we're not really changing the philosophy of we don't have
controversial land-use matters before the Board during those -- that
part of the summer because it's just not fair to residents. I know
we're becoming more of a year-round community, but at the same
time, I don't see the urgency.
I'd rather put this off until September. That would be our
normal thing if we weren't meeting those two meetings in k 38 that
one meeting in July. If we didn't have those meetings, there would
be no question we would be maintaining that normal process where
this would be put off until September. I think we should continue
with that. I'd hate to see us get any controversial zoning issues in the
May 23, 2023
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summertime.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I was going to say, when the staff
or you as the County Manager see that pop up on your radar, like,
hey, this might be in that sort of summer zone and we've -- then I
would just say, just like you did with Isles of Capri, that at least you
default to the commissioner of that district. I mean, if that specific
commissioner definitely agreed -- like Isles of Capri was a perfect
example. You actually did make the call. I think it was already
made, but I was like, great call, boom, and then I don't think anybody
here would have disagreed.
So I think it's sort of, like, you know, reach out to the
commissioner of that district, and we've just heard from the
commissioner that says, you know, hey -- because he is hearing from
more -- we're all hearing from a lot of people on these issues, but the
person whose district it resides in, just like, you know, Commissioner
Hall heard, I'm sure, from more people than we did, but maybe not a
lot more, because we got a lot. So, I mean, I think that's a good call,
and then -- and something could change, maybe, and then that's
where you-all -- you'll talk, but I think if we make a command
decision that will float it till September...
MS. PATTERSON: Understood.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You know, as long as we don't feel
like we're kicking the can to -- you know, I'm not big on delaying
stuff. But if it's truly to give time and all those other things -- the
only thing I would say is the second meeting in June isn't a meeting
we normally wouldn't be here, and I think that was your point.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right, that was my
discussion point.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So my initial thought -- although,
there again, I think the default position is to the commissioner whose
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district that it's in. But my default position was say we were taking
the normal summer break; that second meeting in June is a normal
meeting. And what we had said is when we took off in the summer,
you know -- or the meetings in the summer, we wouldn't hear
anything.
But to Commissioner Saunders' point, we also had this sort of
unwritten rule that as we were sort of on either side of that summer
break, we'd be very judicious.
So, you know, I guess my closing comment -- it sounds like I'm
a little all over the map. I'm not. My closing comment is this is one
of those times where there are meetings on either side that are normal
meetings, but that might not be the time to sort of squeeze in
something, especially if the sitting commissioner in that district feels
strongly, you know, with you on that.
MS. PATTERSON: Agreed. And we have been working with
the applicants, again, to make sure they understood, yes, these are
normal meetings that we have, but we're not changing the way that
we operate. With or without these added summer meetings, it's
simply that we manage these as they're appropriate to come onto the
agenda, and that's not any different than if this was a land-use item,
say, Isles of Capri. Again, we would advise the same, and we have
advised these applicants. The Haven will tell you exactly that. I
advised Mr. Yovanovich, if he didn't make it to the May agenda, The
Haven wasn't going till fall.
So that was it. Work hard to keep your schedules, and even
better than that is work hard to get on summary.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And the County Attorney
may be getting ready to throw some cold water at us.
MR. KLATZKOW: No, I'm just saying this is a -- this is a
Board policy.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Oh, okay.
May 23, 2023
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MR. KLATZKOW: It's been a Board policy since I've been
here.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I thought you were going to
say, hey, we have to --
MR. KLATZKOW: No. This is Board policy. It's always
been Board policy.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. What's next?
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you. That's all I have.
County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing, thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'll go down the line here.
Commissioner Kowal, closing comments. Anything?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm good right now.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I do have two things. I'd
like to have the County Attorney really give us kind of an in-depth
analysis of what the Live Local legislation really does do. I'd like to
see that at our next meeting if -- I'm sure you've got some material on
that. But we had a lot of discussion about that today, and I think
there's some confusion as to what we can and cannot do, and we
really need to, I think, have some analysis of that.
And then, secondly, I'd like, at our second meeting in June, to
give -- this is to give staff a little bit of time -- a really thorough
report on where we are with workforce and affordable housing in the
sense of what we've approved, what's been built, what staff's doing to
make sure that units are really being utilized as required in the zoning
documents.
We're all getting criticized pretty regularly now about, you
know, the fact that we're not doing anything about affordable
housing, and that's just not accurate. And so I'd like some official
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presentation, some numbers on numbers of units and also units that
are approved going forward.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood.
COMMISSIONER HALL: That's easy.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: A couple things. First of all, I'm
in agreement with the decision. I have no heartburn about it at all.
I like the project. I just had to be with my people.
Secondly, I met with another bunch of -- whole bunch of people
in District 2, about 25 people representing about 6,000 homes, and
here's what they want: So we've landscaped about 100 miles of road
in Collier County, and there's four miles that got left out, and that's
the north/south corridor between Vanderbilt Beach and Immokalee
up Airport and Goodlette. The reason why those roads got left out
of the landscaping is because we didn't want to landscape them and
then rip it out when we expanded the roads.
So now that we're going to expand the road, they're like, hey,
we've paid taxes for 20 years, and we've landscaped everybody else's
roads, but we've gotten left out. We had the money earmarked.
Now it's done gone, because the Board made a decision, which was a
good decision, in 2019 to end that -- end that landscaping, because
we have 55 more miles-plus going out east that we're not going to
landscape.
So I met with Neil Dorrill. He was representing Pelican Marsh.
I met with him one day, and he expressed the need, you know, there,
all of that community. And then when I met with this big group, this
big group was Arthrex, Pelican Marsh, the Orchards, the Galleria,
Ritz-Carlton, Tiburon. I mean, people in the Galleria Shops. There
was a large contingent of people there wanting and asking if the
Board would consider -- if the Board would consider making an
exception for those last four miles and allowing those roads to be
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landscaped when they're expanded. The cost of that is about
$420,000 a mile, so 1.4 million.
I mentioned the MSTU. They said we did not want to do that.
We've already paid taxes, and we would just like -- and so I said, I'll
ask the Board if they've got the resolve to do anything like that. I
can bring it back in an executive summary or I don't know if we can
decide to do it now, or what's your thoughts?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. I'd like to see the plan.
I'm thinking bring it in an executive summary so I can look at
everything. One of the reasons -- I was the one -- one of the ones
that kind of led the charge on stopping the construction of new
landscaping --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good decision.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- and, you know, it's -- for
today's discussion, it's a half a million dollars in expense to landscape
that facility, but then it is -- at last count, it was running us $75,000 a
lineal mile --
COMMISSIONER HALL: To maintain it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- forever. So that four
miles then translates into another $280,000 a year forever to be
maintained.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I think -- and we brought that up.
And I think that there -- is it Pam something? What's Pam's last
name, Trinity? Anyway, Pam, she said, you know, there's some kind
of maintenance agreement with the county that those people could
maintain it if we installed it, and I think that that would --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, then that -- that comes
back around to the overall -- for me. I don't know -- I don't know
about the rest of them, but for me the overall question is, you know,
what's the exposure, not just the front-end cost. You know, they
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say -- we got a -- we've got a grant from the DOT to do some
landscape median --
COMMISSIONER HALL: On Santa Barbara.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- on Davis, I think it was.
COMMISSIONER HALL: On Davis.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It was on Davis. But there,
again, that adds to -- I mean, we're spending in excess of $10 million
a year on maintenance of our roads, and then we have these
discussions about what we're doing for housing affordability and so
on and so forth. That's where I -- that's where I get caught up.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I get it. I wouldn't even be
interested in the maintenance of it. I just was -- I said, I'll go to the
Board and ask them if they have the resolve to make an exception to
put you some landscaping in those medians. We'll leave it up to
them and some kind of agreement to maintain it.
And that's the reason why -- it was a good decision to end it
because of the labor, because of the maintenance cost, and the cost of
materials and the shortage of labor. I mean, everybody in the world
shares the same yard mower.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I know we were in the
process of adjusting our proposals for landscape maintenance
contracts. Has the per-mile cost gone down any?
MS. SCOTT: For the record, Trinity Scott, Transportation
Management Services.
Like everything else, no, it hasn't gone down. We're actually in
the process right now of putting several of those contracts back out
because they are up. So we'll see what the cost increases are. We'll
be prepared to talk about that during budget.
I will note on Goodlette, as well as Airport to Goodlette from
Vanderbilt to Immokalee Road, and Airport from -- Airport to
Immokalee Road, any decision with regard to installation of the
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landscaping would not be a this-budget-year decision because both of
those roadways are planned to be widened within our five-year
program.
So any installation cost would be probably three, four years
down the road before the Board would have to finally make that
decision. We will design, as we do with all of our medians, with the
proper soil and sleeving for future irrigation, should there be a desire
to install landscaping in the future. We can bring back options if
that's the direction of the Board.
At this point, though, we are not far enough along in design to
know how much of a median will be remaining. The Airport Road
project, we are widening to the median, and the Goodlette project, the
right-of-way is significantly constrained in that area based on Pelican
Marsh being there.
So I can't tell you today what type of landscaping we would
even be able to install.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We actually made an
exception to our rule there in terms of stopping the program. We
stopped the program because it became too expensive at that time.
And I think -- I think we brought in some crews in-house to do some
of the landscaping. I don't know how that's panned out and whether
or not that should be expanded, and maybe that's something that we
need to look at. But I would support doing the medians. I think
that the -- I'm not sure what the return on investment would be, but I
certainly think that it makes our community a whole lot nicer, and
those are areas that should be improved.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Well, there are -- just like
everything else, it encourages tourism.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Exactly. So the return on
investment may be 150 years, but there is a return.
May 23, 2023
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MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we can work with
Commissioner Hall and bring back some options, and because of the
timing, that will also give us an opportunity to talk to those
communities and see if there's any appetite for a partnership on the
maintenance, and then we can flesh -- we'll work with you,
Commissioner Hall --
COMMISSIONER HALL: All right.
MS. PATTERSON: -- and we can flesh that out and bring it
back.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah. I just want to be able to go
back to them and say, you know, this is a possibility or, nope, we're
dead in the water.
MS. PATTERSON: Yep. We'll work with them, for sure, and
with you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: That will be good news. Thank
you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And once we decide
what the TPCs -- that was my only other comment. I didn't wait for
you to call on me, but that was -- I wanted to see what the total
project cost was going to be.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I don't want to be tied into some
long-term maintenance thing.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yep.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal's been
waiting patiently, having pushed his button, but was preceded by
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Trinity walked away already.
I'm getting her exercise today.
I basically -- I was just curious, because I've been dealing
with -- you know, I've been dealing with Whippoorwill and other
places and talking about landscaping and non-landscaping, what the
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county's willing to do and not willing to do.
But I've been running into a lot of different people that are
brainstorming, and they're saying there's certain, like, vegetation and
certain plants that are native that are very decorative and things like
that don't require any watering, don't require any irrigation, that could
thrive in some of these medians without any maintenance.
And I don't know if we've looked in -- or had any people looking
into these that -- you know, it might be a one-time deal, and we walk
away from it. So I don't know.
MS. SCOTT: Commissioner McDaniel down there is
(indicating).
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The one thing I did learn
from a council meeting that I was attending dealing with median
beautification many, many years ago was that some of these plants
that thrive in Florida's climate will not thrive in a median because the
climate in the median is a whole lot different with exhaust and the
temperatures. So it may not be that easy a fix that way.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I was just curious, because I
know it's been thrown around.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: It may be something to look
at, but --
MS. SCOTT: It is, and, certainly, we can have -- I can have
Pam Lulich get -- pull together some information for you.
The thing that we typically will run into, though, is that folks see
the remainder of the landscaping of what we have currently
landscaped, and they have an expectation that that's what they desire
as well.
And so sometimes it's -- it depends on if it's a community effort
that they're coming forward and saying that's what we want here. If
we install that, then they sometimes have a different expectation
when they've seen Royal Palms in other areas, so...
May 23, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And on -- it's my turn now?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Not really.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And on that light [sic] we
have -- well, I just want to wait for you, Mr. Chair.
I think we have at least two miles of a pilot program that we've
redesigned the median in construction and inverted it as opposed to
humping it. And then we've also engaged with the Garden to seek
happy plants that will live there that require less fertilizing,
maintenance, irrigation, so on and so forth. And by the time these
road projects come along, from a timing standpoint, if what I heard
was correct, we're looking two years out-ish --
MS. SCOTT: Three.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- before those expansions of
those roadways, in fact, comes in place, we'll be able to have some
data to ultimately look at as well.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So you're telling me there's a
chance?
COMMISSIONER HALL: So you're saying there's a chance.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There's a chance. There's a
chance.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: You've been to the movies.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I just have a couple closing
comments.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm not -- I do have -- I do
have a comment, or are you --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Fine.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- going to let me go first or
you --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- sir, please.
My question is for -- I didn't get to ask this yesterday, but there
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are four marinas, public marinas, that the county operates. I know
several -- a couple of them were damaged severely during the storm,
but I've also heard that we're out for a rebid for a new vendor to take
it over. It has also been shared with me -- and I'd like
to -- somebody to have a look at the RFP that went out, because I was
told that the county is soliciting a vendor for all four, which is the
circumstance that we had before where one person paid or took on
the -- if you will, the responsibility, and then sublet operations to
individual operators.
So I'd like -- two things. I'd like for us to move as quickly as
possible to get minimum services availed at our marina sites:
Minimum fuel, water, just little things that -- most boaters are
self-sufficient when they're putting their boat in by themselves. And
then I would also like us to explore individual operators at those
marinas, not necessarily one that is, then, in a sublet position with
sub-operators.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. Understood.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, three of those marinas are
in my area, and I've been working really closely with Olema and
Mr. Rodriguez, you know, on Goodland, Caxambas, and Port of the
Islands.
And, I mean, I'll let you chime in, Mr. Rodriguez, if you can.
But the minimum requirements of gas, water, ice, things like that,
bait -- I know we had a gap between our previous vendor and now,
but I think we've filled that in short order. We fixed the gas pumps
at Port of the Islands, and it's pumping gas.
So am I correct in saying that we had a minimal gap, at least the
three that are in my district, and that we have Parks and Rec
employees that are selling those minimum-type things? Granted, we
don't have a full open and -- you know, marine store selling candy
and all that, but are we providing those minimal things? I mean, I
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know what the answer is, but you go ahead.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, absolutely. Actually, we are
selling the gas. That's finally worked its way out. We are working
to get the water, the ice, and just some basic drinks available to them.
There's some challenges there that staff is still working through.
They do have some vending machines at some locations.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: So unless Tanya Williams has any
additional detail, I think that's where we're at now, Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, I was going to say how we
quickly responded in Tigertail when we lost the vendor there with
vending machines that sold at least drinks and some food as a
minimum. So I know we were trying to do something a bit more
aggressive. But while we were -- while that was sort of working its
way through, you know, getting some vending machines -- renting
some and plugging them in shouldn't be a showstopper.
So I agree with Commissioner McDaniel. If we're not doing
that at all the locations -- it's been -- we're past that window of when
we should have been doing that. So I've heard from citizens as well.
So we must have fixed it at one or two of them because I got,
actually, thank you notes from some people. And so I know that
we've attacked it, at least partially.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely. And in response to the
contract, staff is working diligently. It did go out in RFP, and there
is one vendor that's responded. The goal is to get, as you directed us
probably about a year and a half ago, is to rewrite that contract so that
the revenues from the boat launch fees as well as the parking comes
back to the county so that we can retire the costs associated with
maintaining these facilities, and that's in the works.
We do have a viable contractor who provided a first-blush
proposal that looks very good, and they're going to take on the cost.
May 23, 2023
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Just for your situational awareness, four facilities takes quite a
few employees. They're open seven days a week. Some are open
about 12 hours a day from sunup to sundown, and so there's a lot of
cost associated with that.
There are options in that contract to utilize this vendor
potentially for other sales that will help the parks and help gain
additional revenues for the park. So that's in negotiations now. As
soon as we get that first draft and we have a recommendation for
staff, we'll bring it back to the Board for your consideration.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. So -- but there is gas
being sold and --
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely. We have -- we've procured
the gas, and the county staff -- thanks to Parks and Recreation and
their team and some other contracted labor, we're selling, and we're
opening the parks and we're closing them as before.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Very good. That's all, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: On that note, did you-all get the
email from Mr. Delaney, the kid that bought -- that took the loan out
for four Jet Skis and he was operating his business for his -- and he
was basically emailing us for some grace and Ms. Edwards. And
there's 202 permits out, and there's only supposed to be 180.
He kind of got -- I don't like to do these things because I don't
like to set precedence, but, at the same time, you know, the human
factor's there. His father-in-law or his step -- ex-stepfather is selling
the business, so that permit's going to go with whoever buys it.
But he was -- he was owning and operating it for his
ex-father-in-law, so he just needs a permit because he's got -- he's a
small footprint. He's got four Jet Skis, and it's the way that he
provides for his family. And so just for the record, I'm all about
letting him have a permit if that's -- if this is the right time to talk
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about that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll let Mr. Rodriguez, you know,
comment, but, I mean, I get that, and I saw the email, and I saw his
family photo and whatnot, and I really wanted Parks and Rec to
respond, because they know more of the history of who we've said no
to, who we've said yes. You there's a bunch of -- there are other
people that ask for special exceptions, and I think in some cases we
held the line, because -- also, too, one of the things that I believe we
told some of those people a year ago is, hey, you know, asking for the
permit's the first thing you should have done, not buy the Jet Skis,
spend $100,000, do this, do that, and then find out, oh, my God,
they're not giving permits out anymore? And we gave some people
some pretty strong words, you know, because of that, and --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: His ex-father-in-law has
the --
COMMISSIONER HALL: He had a permit, but --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I got that. I read the email, and
that's what I'm saying. I'm just talking generically that there's some
people that didn't have the exact case.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Gotcha.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Every case was different. But
that's why I didn't hit a quick reply, and I bet none of us did, because
also you had all the Parks and Rec leadership on that same email to
include, I think, Mr. Rodriguez. So it was like, okay, I don't want to
prematurely say, oh, you have a special case, yes, I approve it,
because I really think I want the read from Parks and Rec, whom I
have told the last 10 people that had a special case no, and then we're
all going to get a thousand emails from this guy and his entire
neighborhood saying, you know, why did you screw him -- or, you
know, why'd you help him when you, you know, screwed over a
bunch of other people? But I don't think any of us had that full
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package.
Do you know what the case is on that special -- on that special
request?
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Yes, we do, Commissioners.
Actually -- and I've had a chance to talk to several of you in reference
to this. The permit's actually issued to the business owner -- I'm
sorry -- to the business name. So he bought the business; he bought
the name. And I think there's certain situations where it makes sense
to go ahead and transfer that commercial permit because it's good for
the whole year.
What I wanted to make sure, and I clarified with some of you, is
that it doesn't guarantee the issuance of a permit in the future as it
would with others because policy may change as you do your rate
adjustments annually. You may want to reduce those permits, but
that's down the road. So in this particular case, I see that as an
opportunity to transfer that over.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I think that's what maybe we had
hoped to hear, but we've got to make sure that that's supportable to
the 30 people who might send you an email in the next 15 minutes all
saying, wow, I had a special case, and, you know, I put a picture of
my family, and it was my dad, and I don't think any of us have
visibility into those, because I know, Mr. Rodriguez, you and the
Parks and Rec leadership handled a lot of those internally.
So good to hear that, that this one was a special case, and that if
somebody comes back to you who thought they were a special case
and didn't get the same ruling, that you feel like the previous
decisions will hold up because they were different.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That's what I'm hearing from you.
MR. RODRIGUEZ: And thanks to you and our County
Manager, you've helped us kind of rein this program in so that we
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have a limit, we have a cap, and now that we're going to right-size
that with each different ramp, because some ramps don't require 30
vendors showing up at -- on one day, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right, yeah. And that's a big
thing that we've -- I've been talking with Parks and Rec, because a lot
of these marinas are in District 1, that this might be the time to look
at specific permits for specific marinas rather than just, wow, we sold
200. I wonder where all these vendors are going to go, and
then -- you know, and then the answer is, they all went to Caxambas,
you know. And, oh, God, it's too late now to change their permit.
So we've got to do this smarter, and it sounds like we are.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think I just need to say this
for the record. That is actually my stepson now. And so I did have
a meeting with Mr. Rodriguez yesterday where we talked about these
permits but did not mention Jeffrey Delaney at all because I didn't
want there to appear to be any influence on my part, so I didn't say
anything to anybody.
So I'm glad that the Board brought it up, and I'm glad that there
was a consensus to do that. But I can't participate in the nodding of,
yeah, let's do that. I'm abstaining from that nod because of that. I
just wanted the record to reflect that there was no influence from me
in reference to this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALL: It's still a pretty family.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right. I've got three things to
close on. A lot of times on the consent agenda, you know, we -- not
all -- sometimes all the time, we approve a whole bunch of things
with one vote, but there's things that are buried in there that are really
good-news stories. And I think we've all done a great job that when
we've seen those, you know, I think, previous groups that were up
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here would pull stuff off on the consent agenda more often than not
because it was something bad. Oh, we're not going to just blindly
approve it. We're going to talk about it for 12 hours, and that wasn't
maybe horrible.
But I've seen us over the last, you know, whatever, how many
months, we've all taken a chance to pull something off at times to talk
about it to not only make sure citizens know that there was something
embedded in there that was a good-news story, but sometimes it
doesn't need to be pulled off.
And I talked with Ms. Patterson about this yesterday and said,
let's not pull this off. But I want to defer to her and have her give us
sort of the short version of three things that were on the consent
agenda that were good-news stories for affordable housing. There
are, again, you know, to steal some words from Commissioner
Saunders where he says, you know, everybody thinks we're not doing
anything. Yeah, we're doing -- we're doing more than a couple of
things, and some of them hurt, but some of them are -- you know,
hurt because they're long overdue.
But 16D1, D2, and D3 were some really good things that helped
take another little -- it doesn't solve anything, you know, 100 percent,
but it continues to march us down the line. So if you wouldn't mind
just telling us that -- in case you missed it, those three things in the
consent agenda, what they did when we voted unanimously for them.
MS. PATTERSON: Yep. 16D1 is their SHIP -- their SHIP
partnership agreements providing $250,000 to one group and
$500,000 to another group for construction of rental housing in
Immokalee.
16D2 is -- it's actually a clarification of an existing agreement,
but the important part about that, it's part of the HOME program that
provides for funding for infrastructure for affordable housing
developments. This one also was providing some extra time due to
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the impacts of Hurricane Ian.
And then the last one is another -- another SHIP agreement.
This one is in reference to rehabilitation, including roofing repairs
and replacements, again, for affordable housing -- people that qualify
for these -- for that type of funding. So, again, that's working-class
people. So that's over a million -- almost a million eight in
assistance to help rehabilitate houses.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Thank you.
The second thing is for Mr. Klatzkow. So last time we were
here, we approved unanimously a resolution for liens and fines to
tighten things up a bit and all that. I just wanted to ensure we
got -- we launched that out to all the right county staff members, the
Code Enforcement Board, everybody. So is that -- is that a correct
statement? Do you believe everybody has a copy in front of them?
MR. KLATZKOW: We are in the process of doing that, yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Okay. And then
whenever the next Code Enforcement Board is, I think the
conversation we had is somebody from your office that normally
would be in there to not miss the opportunity, to not just give
everybody a copy --
MR. KLATZKOW: No, I will be there.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- but to summarize. Okay.
And then, lastly, I want the commissioners to know -- I didn't
put them on this email, but I'm happy to send it to you as one-way
communication. But yesterday I sent a large email out about I-75
litter to every FDOT person I could think of, to every county staff
member that cares, and it was on behalf of all of us. I didn't want to
get into this, you know, hey, we're all on it -- so Sunshine laws.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: All of our staff cares.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, everybody cares. Well, it
was the staff that actually, you know, are in regular contact with
May 23, 2023
Page 178
FDOT. But I think it represented what we all feel and what we see
on emails. I-75 has never looked worse.
And so I've had to confirm for citizens that I-75 is the
responsibility of FDOT, but we work closely with them, although at
times our own staff has helped plug some holes on I-75 and then
some surrounding roads picking up large pieces of debris.
But in that email, I outlined what I thought, but I think you-all
would agree that the reason why I-75 looks so bad is like -- is
several -- multiple different things. Number one, we heard it in here
during the MPO meetings that a while ago that FDOT lost their
contractor. Then they sort of were in between contracts. And now
they have one, but contractor's not doing that great.
And I also believe, regardless of the contractor that they have
now, if they're policing I-75 the way the previous contractors did it
several years ago, that's another reason why we have a problem
because there's a lot more litter out there now post-hurricane, and I'll
even a post-COVID, and I'll explain why. And it's something that
you might not have thought of. But -- so it's the FDOT contractor.
Number two, Waste Management will tell you we're picking up
more garbage in bins on the curbsides every two weeks than we've
ever picked up before. Now, why is that? A lot of reasons, but one
of the big reasons is people are still cleaning out their garages from
the hurricane. They have a contractor who's working in their house
and is putting some of the drywall possibly out by the curb or some
of the debris from boxes that they just got new appliances or what
have you. But it's a fact that Waste Management vehicles are
picking up the most -- the largest amount of litter -- of debris that
they ever have been.
So why -- how does that litter I-75? Well, I personally have
gotten emails from people that say, I see your giant Waste
Management trucks making a beeline for the landfill, and stuff's just
May 23, 2023
Page 179
blowing out of all of them, and it's because they're packed to the gills,
so that's number two.
Number three, we have a lot of contractors in this area that are
doing hurricane repairs and are driving all over I-75. Some of them
have their loads covered. Some of them don't. Some of them have
a cover but the trucks are overloaded. So I've even watched stuff,
you know, blow out, in buckets, pieces of materials and those sort of
things.
And then, I put in that letter, the fourth reason is -- and it is part
of COVID. There were a lot of organizations and volunteers that
kept Collier beautiful. We have a program, Keep Collier Beautiful.
You can sign up in your rotary club, your boy scout troop, all these
different things.
What I hear from people that manage that program is during
COVID, a lot of that support obviously disappeared. Then we rolled
right in a Hurricane Ian, and people were more focused on, you
know, the damage they had than going out every other week and
picking up trash. A lot of those organizations, because of COVID
and Ian, basically dissolved. So their sign's still up saying, you
know, a certain organization has adopted this highway. They haven't
been out there in years.
And not that they were the primary litter picker-uppers, but
when you add FDOT's contract that's maybe a little loose, trucks that
are blowing stuff all over the highway, and then, you know, Keep
Collier Beautiful is maybe the least strong it's ever been, but the
bottom line is something has to be done.
So my closing argument -- and I'll forward this email to you-all.
I wanted to send out the first salvo to FDOT. I got no reply from
anybody. I got read receipts from everybody. And I even said, you
know, I don't -- I'm not saying I got the solution, but we have to
have -- we have to come up with something, and if it's everybody
May 23, 2023
Page 180
throw money in the pot and bring in more contractors -- but I,
personally, as you all have, but even just the other day, drove from
Exit 1 all the way almost to Sarasota, and it's not just Collier County.
It's not like it stops at our county line and Lee County all of a sudden
did something magical and it's, you know, flawless. It is a -- it is a
total mess.
Hats off to our county staff, because if you go into interior roads
that are our responsibility, they're not great in some areas, but, boy, I
see a lot more activity out there. I see a lot more of our county
vehicles out there trying to at least sort of hold our own when it
comes to litter.
But when you drive by I-75, my last point is what I said in this
letter is, it's more than paper and tin cans. Now it is very large -- it's
couches, it's chairs, it's giant buckets. It's construction material, and
it's -- it sits there for an extensive period of time.
So, you know, Ms. Patterson, I don't know if at your level you
can take that email -- and I wanted to just generate not just
conversation, a solution. I mean, we move money around all the
time. Is this something we all need to throw some money at and get
some people out there and not just, you know, send the random truck
out because we saw a ladder in the middle of the road?
I mean, Ms. -- Trinity has done a great job responding to these
emergent things. Hey, there's a ladder sitting in the middle of I-75,
and then somebody moved it over to the shoulder, and then it sat on
the shoulder for two months, and then, finally, you know, instead of
kicking the can, somebody went out there with a county vehicle and
moved it, but it didn't actually fix the litter problem.
Trinity, what can you tell us? What do we need -- what can we
do?
MS. SCOTT: I got my steps in for the day. I just want you-all
to know that. Next time I'm going to wear more comfortable shoes.
May 23, 2023
Page 181
Once again, for the record, Trinity Scott. I actually have a
meeting out in the field with a vendor next week. Based on the
conversations we've had at the MPO -- and I'm constantly thumping
them -- they reached out and said, hey, can we go out? I said,
absolutely, but we're not going to meet in my office. We're going to
go out in the field. So I'm going to go out, take them around, show
them where the areas are, drive them up and down I-75.
Some of -- FDOT has a maintenance rating program that
discusses what's allowable from a litter standpoint.
During any given time, the clear zone has to be clear, the
shoulders are supposed to be clear of obstructions, and, of course, the
travel lanes. Otherwise, they're allowed three cubic yards per acre of
litter per their contract. That's just a statewide maintenance rating
program.
I have reached out to Wayne Gaither as well, from the Florida
Department of Transportation, asking them if it was something that
they could subsidize the contracts to have a more robust litter
removal.
I've asked him to schedule a meeting with me to where we can
talk about different funding strategies for that. There's -- you know,
consistently for us, in Collier County we always yell at FDOT that
we don't receive our fair share of funding. I'm sure that they could
probably scrape together some money to subsidize that contract if
necessary.
So those are some of the things that I'm working on behind the
scenes to try to address the issue.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, you saw -- and you were
on that email I sent out. I mean, I ended it by saying, regardless of
whose responsibility it is, this is the front door to Collier County, and
it's horrible. And even if the metrics show that they're within their
three cubic yards of acceptable trash, I think we all compare it to how
May 23, 2023
Page 182
it looked. So they must have been grossly exceeding in a positive
way over these many, many years because I've never seen it this bad.
So if this is still in the window of acceptability, then they were
doing an awesome job previously. And to catch up to even
somewhere in the middle of that, it can't be business as usual. One
of the things that I did hear from FDOT a couple of weeks ago is,
yeah, we'll do a better job getting our contractor out there -- and they
basically sort of implied -- to the levels that they've also been out
there. This is -- the pendulum is so far to the -- to the nth degree that
that's not going to make a dent.
This reminds me of the rock crushing lot. We're bringing more
litter to I-75 than we're picking up. We're not just trying to catch up.
We're trying to, like, get on the other side of it. There will always be
paper. There will always be cans. But it is so excessive, so
excessive. And I don't know how many more people need to remind
us of that.
So, you know, anything that we can do here -- and if it's a
problem that Collier County's, you know, maybe -- you know the old
adage, well, we don't own FDOT. I know, but that's our front door.
We don't own I-75, but that's our front door.
So if they're too lazy or can't figure it out or this is, you know,
too difficult for them and they're going to come up with a solution in
November, then I think we take the lead and figure out how to do it
and, you know, come up with some sort of solution. So, obviously,
you're talking to the right people, and I know we all feel very similar
to that, because I'm embarrassed when I drive on I-75. It's not
anywhere near to where it's ever been.
MS. SCOTT: I think getting them out and having them put
eyes on what we're seeing -- I know that in the past, Amy and I have
done that with Secretary Nandam where we've told him, go drive
down U.S. 41, and you tell me that that's acceptable to you. So
May 23, 2023
Page 183
when we force that issue, then we start seeing results, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm disappointed that -- I would
think they have -- they have driven it. And they probably -- but they
haven't done it with you, so it's a lot different when you're together,
so I applaud that.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: As you're going through the
contract process -- and it's a viable solution that has worked, and we
use it regularly in Immokalee, consult with the Sheriff about our
prison force. If we're going to put money at something, we can -- we
can maybe work a deal with the Sheriff's Department to utilize
low-risk prisoners that can get time knocked off their sentence by
doing community service work and reimburse the Sheriff for that
additional expense.
We do it in Immokalee with the week -- I call them the weekend
warriors that stay at the stockade. And Christie Betancourt over
there, she's the eyes and ears on the ground. She talks with the
Sheriff's Department with regard to streets that have an excess
amount of trash and, boom, they're out, and they get it. They have a
trailer. They have a guard. They're -- it's very well-maintained and
organized, and it's -- it is site specific.
And so -- and it could be -- rather than us paying a third-party
contractor, we could pay our Sheriff's Department an additional fee at
least commensurate to what a third-party contractor would be, get
some community benefit out of it at the same time.
So it's -- that's something that we are doing already, and it is a
solution to a circumstance.
MS. SCOTT: And I think in the past where maybe you're
seeing that different level of service specifically on I-75 is in the past,
FDOT did utilize FHP services to have state prisoners out
augmenting that contract, and that has ceased. But in my
May 23, 2023
Page 184
conversations with Wayne, that's some of the additional information
I'd like to find out from Wayne, why that's not being used. Is there a
cost benefit? Is it something that they can put some additional
funding towards FHP, or is it something they're just not interested in?
And then, perhaps, it's something with Sheriff Rambosk that he may
be interested in.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, as the Chairman said, I
mean, it's the gateway to our community, the first thing people see
when they come in, the last thing they see as they're going out,
depending on which direction. So -- especially along I-75, and that's
the hotspot today. But next week it will be on Livingston Road or it
will be Collier Boulevard or whatever the case is. And if we're -- if
we're managing it from a local standpoint utilizing, we also have the
DOT's support, theoretically, and the contractor, theoretically,
meeting that one cubic yard per mile, or whatever they utilize as an
acceptable amount isn't acceptable for us. And so I would explore
that as much as is feasibly possible, and within the realm of the happy
of the Sheriff, of course. He has to have the personnel and the --
MS. SCOTT: I'll take great pride in challenging FDOT.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But one thing I'll add about
the -- if we use the Sheriff or if it's state troopers or what have you, to
Commissioner McDaniel's point, if it's low-risk folks -- we're not
looking to empty out our jails, because some of the feedback I had
heard from law enforcement, I'll just say -- I don't want to tag this on
any particular name. But when I had sort of explored this was, wow,
every person in uniform is extremely valuable. Sitting there and
guarding somebody that's holding a Hefty bag isn't the best use of our
law enforcement, and I don't disagree.
But if we've got sort of, you know -- if there is a prisoner force
that is low risk, just overseers could be hired. They don't need to be
state troopers. They don't need to be sheriffs that are pulled off of
May 23, 2023
Page 185
law enforcement. It could be that FDOT beefs up their crews, and
we give them a little bit of free labor, and it's some sort of, you know,
combination of both.
Because the pushback that I immediately heard was police are
too valuable, and we're already shorthanded, and, you know,
watching prisoners pick up trash, okay, well, it doesn't necessarily
need to be an armed officer if it's low-risk people, or maybe it's one
armed officer out there, and then it's a bunch of augmentees who are
making sure.
I also did hear a safety-type thing. Like you said, maybe they
were doing it in the past. I don't know if someone got hit by a car or
something happened. And I think it predates my dozen years here in
Collier County. But someone might have been using that as a -- you
know, as an excuse, but it might not have been. It might have been
merit that, hey, we used to have people walking -- but if we have
rotary clubs and Kiwanis clubs walking up and down the road -- and,
you know, I don't think we've had any tragic accidents. You know, I
just think that's a copout, and the roads are way too bad now for us to
just ignore it or throw one or two extra bodies at it or one or two, you
know, extra trips every three months. It's too -- we're way past that
window.
So, anyway, we've exhausted the conversation. I just want
to -- please keep us posted.
MS. SCOTT: We will.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'd like to make a comment.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: They do have a program called
the weekend work program, and it's not people that are actually
incarcerated. I mean, when you put incarcerated people out there,
they're our responsibility, so we have to have some sort of --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It's like someone who got a DUI or
May 23, 2023
Page 186
something like that, right?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It's if you're on, like, county
probation. You're not actually incarcerated. You're serving out a
six-month probation or a year probation, and they have a work
weekend program. It's part of the stipulation of the probation.
And in the past, the sheriffs do -- they wrangle these guys up on
a Saturday and a Sunday, and they have the buses. You can actually
see them, the white buses that are parked just on the other side of the
parking lot over there by the DJJ. And they have the trailers. They
have the equipment to go out. And these are very, very low risk
because they're people that aren't incarcerated. They're just serving
out their community service hours, you know --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: They must not be doing it now,
right?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- to their probation.
I don't know. They used to do it when I was there, and it used
to be an overtime gig for some of the correction guys to do it on the
weekend, you know, and they made a few extra bucks to hang out
there with them.
But just putting actual inmates out there, we do have a
care-and-custody-control issue with that that we have to have
particularly armed people, because they are our responsibility
because they are in our care and custody.
But that's a lower, lower-risk-type deal that -- they're doing it
on -- they want to do it because they're trying to get off probation
quicker.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So they're motivated to go out
on the weekends. And maybe we can visit that. And, like, Judge
Janeice Martin was here today. I know she's had some things like
that in her programs in the past. So it may be something we can
May 23, 2023
Page 187
look into that's, you know, through probation and the Sheriff's
Department.
MS. SCOTT: Absolutely, we'll do. Those are actually -- we
do -- they are out in our local community on our local roads. I don't
believe that they've been out on I-75. But we're going to be creative
with the solution. We're going to sit down -- I'm going to sit down
with FDOT and, like I said, I'll challenge them to come up with
multiple solutions, and we'll try to get at it at multiple fronts.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sooner than later. You know, if
they're waiting for the A-plus solution that's going to come in
November, you know, I'd rather see us take up smaller chunks of the
apple and at least try to make a dent somewhere rather than, you
know, they're going to have 11 meetings and then figure out in 2024
how we're going to attack this better. That's not -- that's not the
direction we're given. So I appreciate it.
MS. SCOTT: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Any closing comments?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Just one other thing. High school
students have to do 100 years -- 100 years -- 100 hours of volunteer --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It seems like 100 years.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Get those --
COMMISSIONER HALL: To qualify for their Florida Bright
Future Scholarship, so that's another resource.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Anybody?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Adjourned. Thank you.
*****
May 23, 2023
Page 188
**** Commissioner McDaniel moved, seconded by Commissioner
Kowal, and carried that the following items under the consent and
summary agendas be approved and/or adopted ****
Item #16A1
FINAL ACCEPTANCE AND CONVEYANCE OF THE PUMP
STATION FACILITIES THAT WERE INADVERTENTLY
OMITTED FROM THE POTABLE WATER AND SEWER FINAL
UTILITY ACCEPTANCE APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ON SEPTEMBER 14, 2021, FOR
ABACO POINTE PHASE 1, PL20190002237 – A FINAL
INSPECTION BY STAFF FOUND THESE FACILITIES
SATISFACTORY AND ACCEPTABLE ON JUNE 11, 2021
Item #16A2
RESOLUTION 2023-91: A RESOLUTION FOR FINAL
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE
IMPROVEMENTS, AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT
DEDICATIONS, FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF WINDING CYPRESS
PHASE 3, APPLICATION NUMBER PL20170003951, AND
AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE
SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $596,197.27
Item #16B1
NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS TO REALLOCATE
FUNDS WITHIN THE TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT
SERVICES DEPARTMENT STORMWATER BOND FUND 327
IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF $4,000,000 – AS DETAILED IN
May 23, 2023
Page 189
THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Item #16B2
APPROPRIATE THE COLLIER METROPOLITAN PLANNING
ORGANIZATION’S (“COLLIER MPO”) ANNUAL OPERATING
BUDGET FOR FY 23/24 AND AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY
BUDGET AMENDMENTS IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,158,974,
EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2023
Item #16B3
A WORK ORDER WITH HUMISTON & MOORE ENGINEERS
TO PROVIDE PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING SERVICES FOR
STATE REQUIRED ANNUAL MONITORING OF COLLIER
COUNTY BEACHES AND INLETS FOR 2023 UNDER
CONTRACT NO. 18-7432-CZ FOR TIME AND MATERIAL NOT
TO EXCEED $78,532.00, AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO
EXECUTE THE WORK ORDER AND MAKE A FINDING THAT
THIS ITEM PROMOTES TOURISM (FUND 195, PROJECT NO.
90536) - FOR THIRTY (30) MILES OF COASTLINE, BEACHES
ESTUARIES, CHANNELS AND BAYS
Item #16B4
THE SELECTION COMMITTEE’S RANKING AND AUTHORIZE
STAFF TO BEGIN CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS WITH
HARDESTY & HANOVER CONSTRUCTION SERVICES, LLC,
RELATED TO REQUEST FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES
(“RPS”) NO. 23-8068 FOR “CEI SERVICES FOR STAN GOBER
MEMORIAL BRIDGE REPAIR/REHABILITATION PROJECT,”
May 23, 2023
Page 190
SO STAFF CAN BRING A PROPOSED AGREEMENT BACK
FOR THE BOARD’S CONSIDERATION AT A FUTURE
MEETING (PROJECT NO. 66066)
Item #16B5
CHANGE ORDER NO. 1 TO PROFESSIONAL SERVICES
AGREEMENT NO. 20-7728, CEI SERVICES FOR VETERANS
MEMORIAL BOULEVARD EXTENSION - PHASE I AND PHASE
II - TO HARDESTY & HANOVER CONSTRUCTION SERVICES,
LLC, ADDING 60 DAYS FOR INSPECTION SERVICES,
REALLOCATE EXISTING FUNDS TO COVER THE
ADDITIONAL INSPECTION TIME, AND AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER
(PROJECT NUMBER 60198) – EXTENDING THE INSPECTION
DAYS TO AUGUST 9, 2023
Item #16B6
A WORK ORDER WITH TAYLOR ENGINEERING, INC., TO
PROVIDE PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING SERVICES FOR
THE 2024 DUNE PLANTING AND EXOTIC VEGETATION
REMOVAL PROJECT AT BAREFOOT, VANDERBILT, PARK
SHORE, NAPLES, AND SOUTH MARCO ISLAND BEACHES
FOR TIME AND MATERIALS NOT TO EXCEED $57,007
UNDER CONTRACT NO. 18-7432-CZ, AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE THE WORK ORDER FOR THE
PROPOSED SERVICES, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS
ITEM PROMOTES TOURISM
Item #16B7
May 23, 2023
Page 191
RESOLUTION 2023-92: THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE A
LOCAL AGENCY PROGRAM (LAP) CONSTRUCTION
AGREEMENT WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION (FDOT) REIMBURSING THE COUNTY UP
TO $1,693,376 FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A 10-FOOT-WIDE
MULTI-USE PATH ON COUNTY BARN RD FROM
RATTLESNAKE HAMMOCK TO SR 84 (DAVIS BLVD.);
EXECUTE A RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING THE BOARD’S
ACTION; AND AUTHORIZE THE NECESSARY BUDGET
AMENDMENTS (PROJECT #60254), FPN 438091-2-58-01
Item #16B8
RESOLUTION 2023-93: THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE A
LOCAL AGENCY PROGRAM (LAP) CONSTRUCTION
AGREEMENT WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION (FDOT) REIMBURSING THE COUNTY UP
TO $611,727 FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A 5-FOOT-WIDE
SIDEWALK ON VANDERBILT DRIVE FROM VANDERBILT
BEACH ROAD TO 109TH AVE N; EXECUTE A RESOLUTION
MEMORIALIZING THE BOARD’S ACTION; AND AUTHORIZE
THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS (PROJECT
#60255), FPN 438092-2-58-01
Item #16C1
CHANGE ORDER NO. 4 TO CONSTRUCTION AGREEMENT
NO. 19-7671, “SOUTH COUNTY WATER RECLAMATION
FACILITY (“SCWRF”) RECLAIMED WATER STORAGE TANK
IMPROVEMENTS,” WITH PWC JOINT VENTURE LLC, FOR
May 23, 2023
Page 192
DRAW FROM THE OWNER’S ALLOWANCE IN THE AMOUNT
OF $53,195.39 AND ADDITIONAL FUNDING IN THE AMOUNT
OF $100,471.00, AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN
THE ATTACHED CHANGE ORDER (PROJECT NUMBER
70204) – AS DETAILED IN THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Item #16C2
THE SELECTION COMMITTEE’S RANKING AND AUTHORIZE
STAFF TO ENTER INTO CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS WITH Q.
GRADY MINOR & ASSOCIATES, P.A., RELATED TO REQUEST
FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES (“RPS”) NO. 23-8060 FOR
“DESIGN SERVICES FOR MPS 309 FORCE MAIN TO
WESTERN INTERCONNECT,” AND BRING A PROPOSED
AGREEMENT BACK FOR THE BOARD’S CONSIDERATION
AT A FUTURE MEETING
Item #16C3
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, EX-OFFICIO
THE GOVERNING BOARD OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
WATER-SEWER DISTRICT DIRECT THE COUNTY MANAGER
OR HER DESIGNEE TO ADVERTISE AND BRING BACK FOR
A PUBLIC HEARING A RESOLUTION FOR FUTURE
CONSIDERATION INCREASING WATER, WASTEWATER,
IRRIGATION QUALITY WATER, AND WHOLESALE
POTABLE WATER USER RATES BY 7.07% AMENDING
SCHEDULES ONE AND TWO OF APPENDIX A TO SECTION
FOUR OF COLLIER COUNTY WATER-SEWER DISTRICT
UNIFORM BILLING, OPERATING, AND REGULATORY
STANDARDS ORDINANCE NO. 2001-73, AS AMENDED, AND
May 23, 2023
Page 193
PROVIDE THE REQUISITE 10-DAY NOTICE TO UTILITY
CUSTOMERS PER THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER SEWER
DISTRICT SPECIAL ACT
Item #16D1
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN TWO STATE HOUSING INITIATIVE
PARTNERSHIP SPONSOR AGREEMENTS BETWEEN COLLIER
COUNTY AND CASA AMIGOS EHT, LLC., IN THE AMOUNT
OF $250,000 AND IMMOKALEE FAIR HOUSING ALLIANCE,
INC. IN THE AMOUNT OF $500,000 FOR CONSTRUCTION OF
RENTAL HOUSING UNITS IN IMMOKALEE (SHIP GRANT
FUND 791)
Item #16D2
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE THIRD AMENDMENT TO THE
HOME INVESTMENT PARTNERSHIPS PROGRAM
SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN HABITAT FOR
HUMANITY OF COLLIER COUNTY, INC., AND COLLIER
COUNTY TO CLARIFY THE NUMBER OF HOME-GRANT
ASSISTED UNITS AND EXTEND THE END DATE OF THE
AGREEMENT (HOUSING GRANT FUND 705) - THROUGH 2035
Item #16D3
A STATE HOUSING INITIATIVE PARTNERSHIP SPONSOR
AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND RURAL
NEIGHBORHOODS, INC. IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,791,641 FOR
THE ADMINISTRATION OF AN OWNER-OCCUPIED
REHABILITATION PROGRAM, INCLUDING ROOF REPAIR
May 23, 2023
Page 194
AND REPLACEMENT (SHIP GRANT FUND 791)
Item #16E1
RATIFY PROPERTY, CASUALTY, WORKERS’ COMPENSATION
AND SUBROGATION CLAIM FILES SETTLED AND/OR
CLOSED BY THE RISK MANAGEMENT DIVISION DIRECTOR
PURSUANT TO RESOLUTION #2004-15 FOR THE SECOND
QUARTER OF FY23
Item #16E2
THE ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT PREPARED BY THE
PROCUREMENT SERVICES DIVISION FOR DISPOSAL OF
PROPERTY THAT IS NO LONGER VIABLE AND THEN
REMOVAL FROM THE COUNTY’S CAPITAL ASSET RECORDS
AND NOTIFICATION OF REVENUE (ESTIMATED NET BOOK
VALUE OF $130.92)
Item #16F1
AMENDMENT NO. 18 TO THE AGREEMENT WITH COLLIER
COUNTY DISTRICT SCHOOL BOARD FOR THE DRIVER
EDUCATION PROGRAM EXTENDING THE EXISTING
DRIVER’S EDUCATION FUNDING COLLECTED UNDER THE
DORI SLOSBERG DRIVER EDUCATION ORDINANCE FOR AN
ADDITIONAL YEAR – FOR PUBLIC AND PRIVATE HIGH
SCHOOL STUDENTS
Item #16F2
May 23, 2023
Page 195
ACCRUED INTEREST FROM THE PERIOD JANUARY 1, 2023
THROUGH MARCH 31, 2023, EARNED BY EMS COUNTY
GRANT, PROJECT NO. 33655, AND APPROPRIATE INTEREST
EARNING FOR A TOTAL AMOUNT OF $1,616.91
Item #16F3
AN AGREEMENT FOR SALE AND PURCHASE WITH: (1)
MARTIN JOYCE AND ELIZABETH JOYCE; (2) TERRI LOPEZ
FORMERLY KNOWN AS TERRI RODRIGUEZ; (3) ABEL
CHAVEZ MARTINEZ (4) JULIO ALBERTO SALGADO; (5)
PAULETTE CHARLES UNDER THE CONSERVATION COLLIER
LAND ACQUISITION PROGRAM, AT A COST NOT TO EXCEED
$227,418) – FROM PANTHER WALK PRESERVE - JOYCE,
LOPEZ & SALGADO; FROM THE RED MAPLE SWAMP
PRESERVE - MARTINEZ; FROMO THE DR. ROBER H. GORE
III PRESERVE - CHARLES PROPERTIES
Item #16F4
RESOLUTION 2023-94: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS,
CONTRIBUTIONS, OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE
FISCAL YEAR 2022-23 ADOPTED BUDGET. (THE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION HAVE
BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VIA SEPARATE EXECUTIVE
SUMMARIES)
Item #16G1
May 23, 2023
Page 196
BUDGET AMENDMENTS TO RECOGNIZE REVENUE FOR
MARCO ISLAND EXECUTIVE AIRPORT, IN THE AMOUNT OF
$950,000 AND FOR IMMOKALEE REGIONAL AIRPORT, IN
THE AMOUNT OF $390,000 TO ACCOMMODATE INCREASED
FUEL PURCHASES AND ASSOCIATED OPERATING
EXPENSES OVER BUDGETED LEVELS
Item #16G2
RESOLUTION 2023-95: A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING
EXECUTION OF AMENDMENT NO. 1 AIP GRANT NO 3-12-
0021-006-2021 WITH THE FEDERAL AVIATION
ADMINISTRATION FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDING FOR THE
RUNWAY 15/33 REHABILITATION AND WIDENING AT THE
EVERGLADES AIRPARK IN THE AMOUNT OF $20,000 AND
AUTHORIZE ALL NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS
AIRPORT GRANT FUND (498)
Item #16J1
TO RECORD IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS WERE DRAWN
FOR THE PERIODS BETWEEN APRIL 27, 2023, AND MAY 10,
2023, PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE 136.06
Item #16J2
REQUEST THAT THE BOARD APPROVE AND DETERMINE A
VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND
May 23, 2023
Page 197
PURCHASING CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF MAY 17, 2023
Item #16K1
RESOLUTION 2023-96: APPOINT TWO MEMBERS TO THE
BAYSHORE/GATEWAY TRIANGLE LOCAL REDEVELOPMENT
ADVISORY BOARD – APPOINTING KRISTIN HOOD AS THE
AT-LARGE REPRESENTTIVE W/THREE YEAR TERM
EXPIRING ON MAY 22, 2026, AND APPOINTING JAMES
TALANO AS AN AT-LARGE REPRESENTATIVE, WAIVING THE
DAVIS BLVD BUSINESS OWNER REQUIREMENT W/TERM
EXPIRING ON MAY 22, 2024
Item #16K2
RESOLUTION 2023-97: REAPPOINT A MEMBER TO THE
EDUCATIONAL FACILITIES AUTHORITY – REAPPOINTING
MICHAEL MCDONALD W/TERM EXPIRING ON MARCH 23,
2028
Item #16K3
RESOLUTION 2023-98: THE HOUSING FINANCE
AUTHORITY OF COLLIER COUNTY FOR APPROVAL OF A
RESOLUTION APPROVING A PLAN OF FINANCING
INVOLVING THE ISSUANCE BY THE AUTHORITY OF
SINGLE-FAMILY MORTGAGE REVENUE BONDS IN AN
AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $50 MILLION OR, IN THE
ALTERNATIVE, TO USE VOLUME CAP ALLOCATION FOR
MORTGAGE CREDIT CERTIFICATE PROGRAMS OR FOR
MULTIFAMILY HOUSING FOR PERSONS OF LOW OR
May 23, 2023
Page 198
MODERATE INCOME
Item #16K4
THE CHAIR TO EXECUTE A SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT IN
THE LAWSUIT STYLED COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS V. ELIZABETH MCGUIRE, (CASE
NO. 23-SC-881), NOW PENDING IN THE COUNTY COURT OF
THE TWENTIETH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA, FOR THE SUM OF $2,102.19
Item #17A
ORDINANCE 2023-23: A REZONING ORDINANCE FOR THE
WILLIAMS FARM RPUD TO ALLOW UP TO 336 SINGLE
FAMILY HOMES ON 168± ACRES LOCATED SOUTH OF LAKE
TRAFFORD ROAD AND LITTLE LEAGUE ROAD IN
IMMOKALEE, IN SECTIONS 36 AND 31, TOWNSHIP 46
SOUTH, RANGES 28 AND 29 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA [PL20210001434]
Item #17B
ORDINANCE 2023-24: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE
PLANTATION PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT BY
INCREASING THE DENSITY FROM 418 DWELLING UNITS TO
419 DWELLING UNITS AND BY CHANGING THE
DESIGNATION OF A .74± ACRE PARCEL FROM RECREATION
TRACT TO RESIDENTIAL FOR A SINGLE FAMILY
RESIDENCE. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS .74± ACRES OUT
OF THE 83.7± ACRE PUD AND LOCATED EAST OF SANTA
May 23, 2023
Page 199
BARBARA BOULEVARD AND SOUTH OF RADIO ROAD IN
SECTION 4, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST,
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA [PL20210000349]
Item #17C - Continued from the April 25, 2023, BCC Meeting
ORDINANCE 2023-25: RESOLUTION 2023-98A: AN
ORDINANCE OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
AMENDING ORDINANCE 89-05, AS AMENDED, THE
COLLIER COUNTY GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN OF THE
UNINCORPORATED AREA OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA,
RELATING TO THE RURAL FRINGE MIXED USE DISTRICT
RESTUDY AND SPECIFICALLY AMENDING THE FUTURE
LAND USE ELEMENT AND THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP
AND MAP SERIES TO REQUIRE TRANSFER OF
DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS FOR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
AMENDMENTS FOR INCREASED RESIDENTIAL DENSITY IN
THE URBAN MIXED-USE DISTRICT AND THE RURAL
FRINGE MIXED USE DISTRICT; AMENDING THE URBAN
MIXED USE DISTRICT, URBAN RESIDENTIAL FRINGE SUB-
DISTRICT TO REMOVE THE DENSITY BONUS CAP ON
RESIDENTIAL IN-FILL AND REMOVE THE REQUIREMENT
TO USE TRANSFER OF DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS WITHIN
ONE MILE OF THE URBAN BOUNDARY; AND AMENDING
THE RURAL FRINGE MIXED USE DISTRICT OF THE FUTURE
LAND USE ELEMENT TO CHANGE DEVELOPMENT
STANDARDS AND REQUIREMENTS, INCREASE DENSITY
ON RECEIVING LANDS FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, ADD
TRANSFER OF DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS CREDITS, ADD USES
IN RECEIVING AREAS, AND ADD A CONDITIONAL USE FOR
RECREATION IN SENDING LANDS, AND TO AMEND
May 23, 2023
Page 200
DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS FOR RURAL VILLAGES; AND
CREATE THE BELLE MEADE HYDROLOGIC ENHANCEMENT
OVERLAY; AND TO CORRECT THE SCRIVENER'S ERROR
FOR THE IMMOKALEE ROAD RURAL VILLAGE OVERLAY
ON THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP; AND FURTHERMORE,
DIRECTING TRANSMITTAL OF THE ADOPTED
AMENDMENTS TO THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY AND PROVIDING FOR AN
EFFECTIVE DATE [PL20200002234]
Item #17D
ORDINANCE 2023-26: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE
COLLIER BOULEVARD MIXED USE COMMERCE CENTER
PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (MPUD) BY INCREASING
THE MAXIMUM BUILDING HEIGHT ON 4.49± ACRES
DESCRIBED AS LOT 2 IN THE RESIDENTIAL TRACT FROM 35
FEET TO 50 FEET. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS ON THE
SOUTH SIDE OF MAGNOLIA POND DRIVE NEAR THE
SOUTHWEST CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF COLLIER
BOULEVARD (C.R. 951) AND MAGNOLIA POND DRIVE IN
SECTION 34, TOWNSHIP 49 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST,
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA [PL20220006374]
May 23, 2023
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 4:06 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
C / ,
RICK LoCASTRO, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK
yiku• .C,
Attedaito Chairman's
s' natare only.
These minutes- pp ved by the Board on I 2.3 , as
presented " or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.
Page 201