BCC Minutes 01/10/2023January 10, 2023
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, January 10, 2023
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following Board members present:
Chairman: Rick LoCastro
Chris Hall
Dan Kowal
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
Burt L. Saunders
ALSO PRESENT:
Amy Patterson, County Manager
Daniel Rodriguez, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller
Derek Johnssen, Clerk’s Office
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
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January 10, 2023
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Community Redevelopment Agency Board (CRAB)
Airport Authority
AGENDA
Board of County Commission Chambers
Collier County Government Center
3299 Tamiami Trail East, 3rd Floor
Naples, FL 34112
January 10, 2023
9:00 AM
Commissioner William L. McDaniel, Jr., District 5; – Chair – CRAB Co-Chair
Commissioner Rick LoCastro, District 1; – Vice Chair
Commissioner Chris Hall, District 2
Commissioner Burt Saunders, District 3
Commissioner Dan Kowal, District 4
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE
ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO THE SPEAKER BY OTHER
REGISTERED SPEAKERS WHO MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME THE
SPEAKER IS HEARD. NO PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE HEARD FOR
PROCLAMATIONS, PRESENTATIONS AND PUBLIC PETITIONS.
SPEAKERS ON PRESENTATIONS ARE LIMITED TO 10 MINUTES, UNLESS
EXTENDED BY THE CHAIRMAN. ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON A
CONSENT ITEM MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO THE BOARD’S APPROVAL
OF THE DAY’S CONSENT AGENDA, WHICH IS HEARD AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE MEETING FOLLOWING THE PLEDGE OF
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January 10, 2023
ALLEGIANCE.
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON PUBLIC PETITION
MUST SUBMIT THE REQUEST IN WRITING TO THE COUNTY MANAGER
AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE MEETING. THE
REQUEST SHALL PROVIDE DETAILED INFORMATION AS TO THE
NATURE OF THE PETITION. THE PUBLIC PETITION MAY NOT INVOLVE
A MATTER ON A FUTURE BOARD AGENDA AND MUST CONCERN A
MATTER IN WHICH THE BOARD CAN TAKE ACTION. PUBLIC
PETITIONS ARE LIMITED TO A SINGLE PRESENTER, WITH A MAXIMUM
TIME OF TEN MINUTES, UNLESS EXTENDED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
SHOULD THE PETITION BE GRANTED, THE ITEM WILL BE PLACED ON A
FUTURE AGENDA FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
ANYONE WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT
ON THIS AGENDA OR A FUTURE AGENDA MUST REGISTER TO SPEAK
PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION OF THE AGENDA BEING
CALLED BY THE CHAIRMAN. SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE
MINUTES, AND NO ADDITIONAL MINUTES MAY BE CEDED TO THE
SPEAKER. AT THE CHAIRMAN’S DISCRETION, THE NUMBER OF PUBLIC
SPEAKERS MAY BE LIMITED TO 5 FOR THAT MEETING.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDING PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53 AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE
BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN
ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES
MANAGEMENT DIVISION LOCATED AT 3335 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL,
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SUITE 1, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112-5356, (239) 252-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DIVISION.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M.
1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
A. Invocation by Father Michael Orsi - St. Agnes Catholic Church
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of today's regular, consent and summary agenda as amended (Ex
Parte Disclosure provided by Commission members for consent agenda.)
B. Recommendation that the Board authorize the new Chairs for both the Board
of County Commissioners and the Community Redevelopment Agency to
execute all documents approved at both this meeting and those documents
which were previously approved but are pending signature.
3. AWARDS AND RECOGNITIONS
A. EMPLOYEE
B. ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS
C. RETIREES
D. EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH
4. PROCLAMATIONS
A. Proclamation designating January 16, 2023, as a day to remember and
celebrate Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream. To be accepted by
Vincent Keeys, President, Collier County Branch of the NAACP, and other
distinguished guests.
B. Proclamation designating January 2023 as Human Trafficking Awareness
Month in Collier County. To be accepted by Linda Oberhaus, Chief
Executive Officer, The Shelter for Abused Women & Children.
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5. PRESENTATIONS
A. Presentation of the Collier County Business of the Month for January 2023
to the Inn at Pelican Bay. The award will be accepted by Steve Dorcy,
General Manager. Also attending are Michael Dalby, CEO, and Bethany
Sawyer, Vice President of Membership and Investors, the Greater Naples
Chamber of Commerce.
B. Artist of the Month
6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
7. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE CURRENT
OR FUTURE AGENDA
8. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
9. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. This Item to be heard following the completion of items under sections
11 and 12. This item requires that all participants be sworn in, and ex
parte disclosure be provided by Commission members.
Recommendation to deny an Ordinance amending Ordinance Number 2004-
41, as amended, the Collier County Land Development Code, by changing
the zoning classification of the herein described real property from a
Commercial Intermediate District (C-3) Zoning District to a Mixed Use
Planned Unit Development (MPUD) Zoning District for the project to be
known as Isles Of Capri MPUD, to allow construction of mixed-use
development up to 168 feet in actual height including a maximum of 108
multi-family dwelling units, up to 10,000 square feet and 200 seats of
restaurant and membership clubs, a marina including up to 64 wet slips, a
258-unit dry boat storage facility, and a ships store and dockmaster’s office
limited to 1,000 square feet, and 6,000 square feet of general offices, plus
accessory indoor and outdoor recreation uses and parking structures without
limitation. The subject property is located on the Isles of Capri on both
north and south of Capri Boulevard, consisting of 5.32± acres; providing for
repeal of Resolution No. 92-588 relating to setback variances and Resolution
No. 93-370 relating to a parking variance for boat slips; and by providing an
effective date. [PL20210002314] (This is a companion item to Item #9B,
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GMPA-PL20200002313 Isle of Capri Mixed Use Infill Subdistrict Growth
Management Plan Amendment.) (District 1)
B. This Item to be heard following the completion of items under sections
11 and 12. Recommendation to approve an Ordinance amending Ordinance
No. 89-05, as amended, the Collier County Growth Management Plan by
changing the Land Use Designation of property to Urban, Urban Mixed Use
District, Isles of Capri Mixed Use Infill Subdistrict to allow construction of a
maximum of 108 residential units, up to 10,000 square feet and 200 seats of
restaurant and Membership Clubs, a Marina including up to 64 wet slips, a
258-unit dry boat storage facility and a ships store, retail and/or
Dockmaster’s office limited to 1,000 square feet and 6,000 square feet of C-
3, Commercial Intermediate District uses. The subject property is located on
the Isles of Capri on both North and South of Capri Boulevard, consisting of
5.32± acres; and furthermore, directing transmittal of the adopted
amendment to the Florida Department of Economic Opportunity; providing
for severability and providing for an effective date. [PL20210002313]
(Adoption Hearing) (This is a companion to Item #9A, PL20210002314).
(District 1)
C. Recommendation to consider an ordinance repealing Ordinance No. 22-43,
which requires residential landlords to provide 60 days written notice of a
rental increase over 5% to tenants with leases of one year or longer. (All
Districts)
10. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
A. Recommendation to adjust the Board’s calendar by eliminating the summer
recess and thus provide for year-round meetings. (All Districts)
B. Recommendation to direct the County Attorney to advertise, and bring back
for a public hearing, an Ordinance which would create the unpaved private
road emergency repair municipal service taxing unit by authorizing a levy of
not to exceed one (1.0) mil of ad valorem taxes per year. (All Districts)
11. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
A. Recommendation to award Construction Invitation to Bid (“ITB”) No. 22-
7992R, “Palm River Public Utilities Renewal Project Areas 1 and 2,” to
Haskins, Inc., in the amount of $15,579,339.85, authorize the Chairman to
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sign the attached Agreement, and approve the necessary budget
amendments. (Matt McLean, Public Utilities Engineering Division Director)
(This is a companion to Item #11B) (District 2)
B. Recommendation to award Request for Professional Services (“RPS”) No.
22-7998, "Construction Engineering and Inspection Services for Palm River
Public Utilities Renewal Project," to Stantec Consulting, Inc., in the total
amount of $7,148,209.57, authorize staff to issue an initial purchase order in
the amount of $2,521,148.57, to be followed by future purchase order
modifications subject to Board approval, and as dictated by Board-approved
funding under Projects 70257 and 60234. (Matt McLean, Public Utilities
Engineering Division Director) (This is a companion to Item #11A)
(District 2)
C. Recommendation to direct the County Manager to bring an agreement with
Comcast Cable Communications, LLC, (Comcast) to a future Board of
County Commissioners (Board) meeting to expand broadband and other
cable-related services to identified underserved portions of Collier County.
(James French, Growth Management and Community Development
Department Head) (All Districts)
D. Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners, acting ex-officio
as the Governing Board of the Collier County Water-Sewer District adopt a
resolution accepting the proposal of JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A., to
purchase from the Collier County Water-Sewer District (District) a Series
2023 taxable bond in order to refund all of the District’s Water and Sewer
Refunding Revenue Bonds, Series 2016, for net present value interest
savings; approve the form of a bond purchase and exchange agreement (with
respect to the Series 2026 tax-exempt bond); authorize the issuance of a
Collier County Water and Sewer District Refunding Revenue Bond, Series
2023 in the principal amount of not to exceed $52,000,000 and providing for
the potential exchange of such Series 2023 Bond for a Collier County Water
and Sewer District Refunding Revenue Bond, Series 2026 in 2026; delegate
certain authority to the Board Chairman and other appropriate officers of the
County for the execution and delivery of the bond purchase and exchange
agreement; authorize the execution and delivery of an escrow deposit
agreement and appointment of an escrow agent thereto; and authorize all
necessary budget amendments. (Edward Finn, Deputy County Manager)
(All Districts)
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12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
A. Report to the Board by the County Attorney on the Issue of Paying Full
Appraised Value for Conservation Collier properties. (All Districts)
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY
A. AIRPORT
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
A. Public Comments on General Topics not on the Current or Future Agenda
by Individuals not Already Heard During Previous Public Comments in this
Meeting
B. Staff Project Updates
C. Staff And Commission General Communications
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16. CONSENT AGENDA - All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the Board, that item(s) will
be removed from the Consent Agenda and considered separately.
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A. GROWTH MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to authorize a budget amendment to recognize carry
forward for projects within the Transportation Supported Gas Tax
Fund (313) and Transportation & CDES Capital Fund (310) in the
amount of $40,081.63 (Projects #60085, #60088, #69333, and
#69336). (All Districts)
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2) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water and
sewer utility facilities and accept the conveyance of a portion of the
potable water facilities and appurtenant utility easement, for the Christ
the King Church, PL20220003254. (District 1)
3) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water
utility facilities and accept the conveyance of the water facilities and
appurtenant utility easements, for Christ the King Church Offsite
Watermain, PL20220002981. (District 1)
4) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
private roadway and drainage improvements for the final plat of Del
Webb Naples Parcels 203-204, Application Number PL20150001882,
and Del Webb Naples Parcel 204, Application Number
PL20160001451, and authorize the release of the maintenance
securities in the amount of $75,589.96 and $12,368.07, respectively.
(District 5)
5) Recommendation to approve a Resolution for final acceptance of the
private roadway and drainage improvements, and acceptance of the
plat dedications, for the final plat of Maple Ridge Amenity Center at
Ave Maria, Application Number PL20170000724 and Application
Number PL20160001559, and authorize the release of the
maintenance security in the amount of $288,627.77. (District 5)
6) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water and
sewer utility facilities and accept the conveyance of a portion of the
potable water facilities for Motor Condos at Naples Boulevard,
PL20220005629. (District 2)
7) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water and
sewer utility facilities and accept the conveyance of the potable water
and a portion of the sewer utility facilities, and appurtenant County
Utility Easements, for Tree Farm Apartments, PL20220004818.
(District 3)
8) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the potable water and
sewer utility facilities for Uline, PL20220006207. (District 3)
9) This item requires that ex parte disclosure be provided by
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Commission members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all
participants are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to
approve for recording the amended final plat of Maple Ridge at Ave
Maria Phase 7B Replat, (Application Number PL20220003332)
approval of the standard form Construction and Maintenance
Agreement, and approval of the performance security in the total
amount of $249,615.49. (District 5)
10) Recommendation to authorize the Clerk of Courts to release a
Performance Bond in the amount of $25,760 which was posted as a
guarantee for Excavation Permit Number PL20200002319 for work
associated with City Gate Commerce Park Phase Three Replat No. 4.
(District 3)
11) Recommendation to authorize the Clerk of Courts to release a
Performance Bond in the amount of $25,000 which was posted as a
guarantee for Excavation Permit Number PL20220000677 for work
associated with Batch Plant Replacement. (District 5)
12) Recommendation to approve administrative Change Order #17 to
Agreement No. 11-5626, “One Hundred (100) Year Flood Elevations
for Five (5) Basins in Collier County,” project with Tomasello
Consulting Engineers, Inc., for a zero-dollar time extension of an
additional 365 days for the completion of the ongoing update of the
Federal Emergency Management Agency Digital Flood Insurance
Rate Map (All Districts)
13) Recommendation to approve the release of five code enforcement
liens, with an accrued value of $264,229.83 for payment of $100,000
in the code enforcement actions titled, Board of County
Commissioners v. Stephen Schessler, relating to property located at
1216 Rosemary Lane, Collier County, Florida. (District 4)
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT
1) This Item continued from the June 28, 2022, BCC Meeting and
further continued from the September 13, 2022, BCC Meeting.
Recommendation to approve a Second Amendment to the Major User
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Agreement for Delivery and Reuse of Irrigation Quality ("IQ") Water
with the Riviera Golf Club/Lucky Two Golf, LLC, to provide a
revised termination date due to facility closure. (District 4)
2) Recommendation to approve a Resolution removing uncollectible
accounts receivable and their respective balances from the financial
records of Collier County Public Utilities Department in the amount
of $8,539.44 within Water-Sewer District Operating Fund (408) and
Landfill Operating Fund (470). (All Districts)
3) Recommendation to approve administrative Change Order No. 1 for
time extension and utilization of $125,659.20 of the Design
Contingency under the Professional Services Agreement 21-7884 with
Matern Professional Engineering, Inc., for the New Chiller Plant
Building K. (Project No. 50214.1) (District 4)
4) Recommendation to approve the termination and release of a
temporary construction easement acquired by the County for the
construction of the County’s Production Well No. 10 (SRO 25) in the
Eminent Domain case styled Board of County Commissioners of
Collier County, Florida v. Vision & Faith, Inc., et al., Circuit Court
Case 05-CA-1275, (Project #70892). (District 1)
5) Recommendation to accept a project update on the Collier County
Sports Complex being built under Agreement No. 17-7198, with
Manhattan Construction (Florida), Inc. (Project #50156) (District 3,
District 5)
6) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners, acting in
their capacity as Trustee of the GAC Land Trust, executes an
Agreement and authorizes a Budget Amendment in the amount of
$352,000 to provide the Collier County Emergency Medical Services
Division funding for the purchase of an ambulance, stretcher, and
cardiac monitor for EMS Station74 located at the intersection of
DeSoto Boulevard and Golden Gate Boulevard. (District 5)
D. PUBLIC SERVICES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve and authorize the removal of
uncollectible accounts receivables in the amount of $53,747.18 from
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the financial records of the Library Division in accordance with
Resolution No. 2006-252 and authorize the Chairman to execute the
attached Resolution. (All Districts)
2) Recommendation for the Board of County Commissioners to approve
Amendment Seven to the American Rescue Plan Act Coronavirus
State and Local Fiscal Recovery Fund Plan, approve a reallocation of
funds, and authorize the County Manager or designee to continue to
execute any sub-award agreements and payment requests necessary to
distribute reimbursement for expenses to eligible parties.
(All Districts)
E. ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES
1) Recommendation to approve the administrative report prepared by the
Procurement Services Division for disposal of property and
notification of revenue. (All Districts)
2) Recommendation to approve the administrative report prepared by the
Procurement Services Division for contractual modifications requiring
Board approval. (All Districts)
3) Recommendation to approve an Assumption Agreement assigning all
rights, duties, benefits, and obligations from HealthCare Impact
Associates, LLC, to Equifax Workforce Solutions LLC, concerning
Agreement No. 15-6505, "Affordable Care Act Data Reporting
Services." (All Districts)
F. COUNTY MANAGER OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to approve modifications to the County Manager
Agency and EMS Non-Union 2023 Fiscal Year Pay & Classification
Plans which consist of changes made from October 8, 2022, through
December 31, 2022, and to authorize an increase in deferred
compensation matching for Executive Coordinators to
Commissioners; regular full- and part-time employees below the
Assistant County Attorney level in the County Attorney’s Office; and
regular full- and part-time employees below the Division Director
level in the County Manager’s Agency effective January 1, 2023.
(All Districts)
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2) Recommendation to approve a Memorandum of Understanding
between Collier County and the State of Florida, Department of
Health, Collier County Health Department, for mutual participation in
the acquisition, mobilization, and disaster assistance for a mobile
oxygen generating system. (All Districts)
3) Recommendation to adopt a resolution approving amendments
(appropriating grants, donations, contributions, or insurance proceeds)
to the FY22-23 Adopted Budget. (All Districts)
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
1) Recommendation to approve and authorize the removal of
uncollectible accounts receivable in the amount of $2,050.36 from the
financial records of the Airport Authority Fund (495) in accordance
with Resolution 2006-252 and authorize the Chair to execute the
attached Resolution. (All Districts)
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
I. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1) Recommendation that the Board designate the Clerk’s website as the
county’s official publicly accessible website for purposes of the
notices and advertisements required under Florida Statute 50.011.
(All Districts)
2) To record in the minutes of the Board of County Commissioners, the
check number (or other payment method), amount, payee, and
purpose for which the referenced disbursements were drawn for the
periods between December 1, 2022, and December 14, 2022, pursuant
to Florida Statute 136.06. (All Districts)
3) Request that the Board approve and determine valid public purpose
for invoices payable and purchasing card transactions as of December
21, 2022. (All Districts)
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4) To record in the minutes of the Board of County Commissioners, the
check number (or other payment method), amount, payee, and
purpose for which the referenced disbursements were drawn for the
periods between December 15, 2022, and December 28, 2022,
pursuant to Florida Statute 136.06. (All Districts)
5) Request that the Board approve and determine valid public purpose
for invoices payable and purchasing card transactions as of January 3,
2023. (All Districts)
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1) Recommendation to appoint a member to the Bayshore/Gateway
Triangle Local Redevelopment Advisory Board. (District 4)
2) Recommendation to appoint two members to the
Historic/Archaeological Preservation Board. (All Districts)
3) Recommendation to reappoint five members to the Ochopee Fire
District Advisory Committee. (District 5)
4) Recommendation to appoint a member to the Collier County Planning
Commission, representing Commission District 3. (District 3)
5) Recommendation to approve a Stipulated Final Judgment in the total
amount of $129,000 plus $25,468 in statutory attorney and experts’
fees and costs, for the taking of Parcel 1130FEE required for the
Vanderbilt Beach Road Extension Project No. 60168. (All Districts)
6) Report to the Board of County Commissioners in response to Public
Comments at the December 13, 2022, Regular Meeting regarding
potential conditions required by a COVID-19 Extra Mile Migrant
Farmworker grant. (All Districts)
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17. SUMMARY AGENDA - This section is for advertised public hearings and
must meet the following criteria: 1) A recommendation for approval from
staff; 2) Unanimous recommendation for approval by the Collier County
Planning Commission or other authorizing agencies of all members present
and voting; 3) No written or oral objections to the item received by staff, the
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Collier County Planning Commission, other authorizing agencies or the
Board, prior to the commencement of the BCC meeting on which the items
are scheduled to be heard; and 4) No individuals are registered to speak in
opposition to the item. For those items which are quasi-judicial in nature, all
participants must be sworn in.
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A. Recommendation to adopt a resolution approving amendments
(appropriating carry forward, transfers, and supplemental revenue) to the
FY22-23 Adopted Budget. (All Districts)
18. ADJOURN
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD’S AGENDA SHOULD
BE MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER’S OFFICE AT 252-8383.
January 10, 2023
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MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Okay. I have a live mic. We'll
get everybody seated and settled in.
Good morning. Good morning.
As is usually the case, we're going to do the prayer and the
Pledge, and I believe an honored guest is here today to lead us in the
prayer. Father Orsi, good morning.
FATHER ORSI: Good morning. Good morning.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: If everybody would please rise.
FATHER ORSI: I am honored, the opening prayer for the
Centennial.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Hey, how about that?
Item #1A
INVOCATION GIVEN BY FATHER MICHAEL ORSI FROM ST.
AGNES CATHOLIC CHURCH
FATHER ORSI: Who would have thought this 100 years ago.
Let us pray.
Dear God, we come to you at the beginning of this new year
begging your blessings on our newly constituted Board of County
Commissioners.
Bless your sons, Chris Hall, Dan Kowal, Rick LoCastro, Burt
Saunders, and Bill McDaniel. Fill them with the spirit of service for
the people of Collier County who have entrusted them with our
community's well-being. Let them be selfless in their proposals,
deliberations, and voting to safeguard our wholesome environment
for our businesses, healthcare, and for our families.
We ask you, oh, God, to open their minds and hearts to find
creative ways to make affordable housing available for those who
January 10, 2023
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serve us. Give them the courage they need to move quickly to
provide a mental health facility in our county.
May your spirit guide them in supporting the Sheriff's
Department to fight the proliferation of drugs and bless them as they
support the work of St. Matthew's House and of the David Lawrence
Center.
We ask you to bless our outgoing commissioner [sic], Bill
McDaniel, for the work he's done and for his gracious leadership.
We ask you to give Rick LoCastro the gifts of right judgment and
courage as he assumes the chairmanship of the Board. Fill him with
vision for the future of our county and give him a gentle spirit to lead
us in unity for the common good of all.
We thank you for all the blessings you have bestowed on this
beautiful county of ours, oh, God, and keep us all always in your
love. Amen.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: This morning we're going to ask
Commissioner Kowal, if you would, please, to lead in the pledge.
Ladies and gentlemen, we're to do the pledge.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Just one little correction. I don't
like to ever correct the priest, but I am the outgoing Chair, not the
outgoing Commissioner, unless you're -- unless you've got a little
prophetic thing going on this morning.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Mr. Chairman, point of order.
FATHER ORSI: I was half right.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: We had a meeting last night.
Yeah, we've got a couple things we want to talk about.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Okay. So there may be more
going on than I'm actually aware of, so...
Okay. All right. Let's take care of some of our business, and
then we have the little frivolity we have to do and have a changing of
January 10, 2023
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the guard here.
So with that, good morning, County Manager.
Item #2A
APPROVAL OF TODAY’S REGULAR, CONSENT AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX PARTE
DISCLOSURE PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR
CONSENT AGENDA.) – MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO – APPROVED AND/OR
ADOPTED W/CHANGES – 5/0
MS. PATTERSON: Good morning.
Agenda changes for today; first, continue Item 11C to the
February 14th, 2023, BCC meeting. This is a recommendation to
direct the County Manager to bring an agreement with Comcast
Cable Communications, LLC, to a future Board of County
Commissioners meeting to expand broadband and other cable-related
services to identified underserved portions of Collier County. This
is being continued at staff's request.
Continue Item 16D1 to the January 24th, 2023, BCC meeting.
This is a recommendation to approve and authorize the removal of
uncollectible accounts receivables in the amount of $53,747.18 from
the financial records of the Library Division in accordance with
Resolution No. 2006-252 and authorize the Chairman to execute the
attached resolution. This is also being moved at staff's request.
Continue Item 16C2 to the January 24th, 2023, BCC meeting.
Recommendation to approve a resolution removing uncollectible
accounts receivable and their respective balances from the financial
records of the Collier County Public Utilities Department in the
January 10, 2023
Page 5
amount of $8,539.44 within the Water/Sewer District Operating Fund
and Landfill Operating Fund. This is being moved at staff's request.
Continue Item 16G1 to the January 24th, 2023, BCC meeting.
It's a recommendation to approve and authorize the removal of
uncollectible accounts receivable in the amount of $2,050.36 from
the financial records of the Airport Authority Fund in accordance
with Resolution 2006-252 and authorize the Chair to execute the
attached resolution. Finally, this one being moved at staff's request.
Move Item 16K6 to be Item 12B. This is one of our
time-certain items for 10:00 a.m. This is a report to the Board of
County Commissioners in response to public comments at the
December 13th, 2022, regular meeting regarding potential conditions
required by a COVID-19 Extra Mile Migrant Farmworker grant.
This is being moved at Commissioner Saunders', Commissioner
McDaniel's, and Commissioner Hall's separate requests.
I have an agenda note that's to correct a discrepancy in the title
of Item 9B. It should be recommendation to deny rather than
recommendation to approve to align with the recommendation
published in the executive summary.
Finally, we have time-certain items. Companion Items 9A and
9B will be heard following the completion of items under Sections 11
and 12 of the agenda. These are the Isles of Capri Mixed-Use
Planned Unit Development zoning district items.
And, as I noted, Item 12B will be heard at 10:00 a.m., and this is
the report on the COVID-19 Extra Mile Migrant Farmworker grant.
We have court reporter breaks scheduled for 10:30 and 2:50.
With that, I have no further changes.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Okay. So we're going to do that
12B at time-certain. That's good. I like that.
Before we go into the approval of the agenda and adjustments,
Troy shared with me that there may be some folks that are here
January 10, 2023
Page 6
and/or zooming that want to have comments. So let's hear the public
comment before we actually accept and set the agenda.
MR. MILLER: At this point, Mr. Chair, I don't have my Zoom
speaker online, but I do have two people here in the room to speak on
Item 16C1. Tricia Campbell will be followed by Scott Soderstrum.
And, folks, you can use either podium.
Scott, if you can wait at this podium.
MS. CAMPBELL: Good morning. Thank you for allowing
me to speak on behalf of our community of six hundred and -- I'm
sorry. My name is Patricia Campbell, president of Riviera Golf
Estates Homeowners Association. I reside at 149 Estelle Drive.
And I have the tail end of a cold, so I'm sorry.
Thank you for allowing me to speak on behalf of our community
of 690 homes which directly abuts the golf course, Riviera Golf
Course, which has utilized the contracted county IQ water rights as a
means to maintain the grass and other vegetation on the land for over
seven plus-or-minus years.
On behalf of our community, I wanted to make it clear, despite
what the background information provided to the commissioners may
suggest, that our community objects to the termination of the IQ
water rights associated with this property.
We first communicated our objection to the County Manager,
County Attorney, and former commissioner of District 4 in my email
message to the above persons on September 14th. Our association
only received notice of this recent proposed termination of IQ
irrigation rights by the public posting of the commissioners' meeting
agenda for today.
As of -- all of you have [sic] most recently aware, this golf
course property has been the subject of intent-to-convert application
process during 2022, which proposes to rezone the land for a
high-density residential development of over, give or take, 384
January 10, 2023
Page 7
homes on this property, which has served as both our existing
drainage system and floodplain for about 50 years and has
successfully protected our HOA properties from flood damage
through Wilma, Irma, and recently Ian. Needless to say, it is a
critical element to our community's safety.
I have been advised by staff and the water-use group that a
cancellation of this contract means that any future landowner will
have to reapply and will fall to the bottom of the waiting list to have
these rights restored.
We, therefore, ask you, as the ultimate decision maker for the
county who may be asked to render a decision on a potential rezoning
application, to not take this symbolic step in favor of a future
development of the land to maintain the future -- excuse
me -- maintain the neutral position of maintaining all current
conditions on the land until a proposed future property use is fully
evaluated by county staff and the Planning Commission. We,
therefore, respectfully request that the Board table this IQ item use
termination request at the present time and, therefore -- thereby
assuring the objectivity of any rezoning process going forward.
Doing so will also not make it --
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Ma'am?
MS. CAMPBELL: -- important for a third-party --
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Ma'am?
MS. CAMPBELL: -- purchaser.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: We got it.
MS. CAMPBELL: Okay. You got it?
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: I got it. Are you here to speak on
the same thing?
MR. MILLER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. SODERSTRUM: Yes.
January 10, 2023
Page 8
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Let me -- I'm going to give you
your three minutes if you want to, but let's move that to the top and
have a discussion about it. If it's the will of the Board.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Okay. This is the first I've heard
of this.
MS. CAMPBELL: Oh.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: And your commissioner is saying
the same thing, so I would -- I would concur that we
should -- Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. I was going to say,
let's move this to the regular agenda.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: That's what -- I said to the top.
That's what I meant. Let's move it up to the top, out of the --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't
understand what the top meant.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: -- consent. We'll have a
discussion about it, and then make a decision as to whether we need
to continue it or go forward.
MS. CAMPBELL: Okay. Great. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Do you want --
MR. MILLER: Would you prefer him to speak now, or do you
want to --
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Do you want us to talk you out of
it?
MR. SODERSTRUM: I mean, I can -- I'll try to make it brief
here.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. SODERSTRUM: My name is -- well, first of all, good
morning. My name is Scott Soderstrum. I'm also a resident in
Riviera Golf Estates. I'm also a licensed professional engineer with
January 10, 2023
Page 9
the state of Florida with over 40 years of civil engineering
experience.
And I just want to let you know that the ramifications of this
happening is it's going to be killing the grass, killing the trees.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Got it.
MR. SODERSTRUM: Erosion control type issues.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Do you have a few minutes to stay
until we actually hear this item?
MR. SODERSTRUM: Yes.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: I'd like to hear your comments
then rather than repeating all that right now.
MR. SODERSTRUM: Absolutely. Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: What item is that?
MS. PATTERSON: 11E.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: 11E. Okay. I didn't mean to
interrupt you, sir, but it was a --
MR. SODERSTRUM: No problem.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: -- it was --
All right. Is that all?
MR. MILLER: That's all for this item, sir.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Okey-doke. Well, let's start down
here at my far left.
Commissioner Kowal, good morning.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Do you have any adjustments to
today's agenda and/or ex parte?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Not for any of the agenda items.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: No agenda items. How
about -- and no -- okay. And ex parte on the consent and summary?
You're all good?
(No response.)
January 10, 2023
Page 10
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I have no changes to the agenda and no ex parte.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: All right.
Good morning, Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good morning. I have no ex parte
on the agenda or consent.
I would like to make a comment on one of the things that we are
going to consent, just for a comment. One of them is where we
purchased a temporary easement for a water well, and that easement
was created with no end date, and it was an oversight by us. It was
also an oversight by the owner. And we are going to consent to give
them that easement back, but there's value in -- you know, it's not just
our mistake. It was his mistake, too. So for some compensation for
us to put an end date on that I think would be worth consideration in
the future.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Do you want to pull it and have a
discussion about it?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Not really. Just a comment.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Have you talked to staff, and
you're satisfied that the path we're on's okay?
COMMISSIONER HALL: It's too late in the game now, but I
just wanted to make a comment.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: It's never too late, sir.
Today's -- this is the minute.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I know, but it's something we've
committed to, and I want to honor our word. But going forward we
can consider it.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Very good. Very good.
Commissioner LoCastro.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: No changes, no ex parte.
January 10, 2023
Page 11
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Okay. And I have no changes nor
any ex parte on the consent and summary agenda.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I'll make a
motion to approve the regular agenda as amended and the consent
agenda.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: It's been moved and seconded that
we approve the agenda as amended and adjusted. Any other
discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Opposed, same sign, same sound.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: So moved. Now we have 2B.
SEEREVERSESIDE
Proposed Agenda Changes
Board of County Commissioners Meeting
January 10, 2023
Continue Item 11C to the February 14, 2023, BCC Meeting: Recommendation to direct the County
Manager to bring an agreement with Comcast Cable Communications, LLC, (Comcast) to a future Board of
County Commissioners (Board) meeting to expand broadband and other cable-related services to identified
underserved portions of Collier County. (James French, Growth Management and Community Development
Department Head) (All Districts) (Staff’s Request)
Continue Item 16D1 to the January 24, 2023, BCC Meeting: Recommendation to approve and authorize the
removal of uncollectible accounts receivables in the amount of $53,747.18 from the financial records of the
Library Division in accordance with Resolution No. 2006-252 and authorize the Chairman to execute the
attached Resolution. (All Districts) (Staff’s Request)
Continue Item 16C2 to the January 24, 2023, BCC Meeting: Recommendation to approve a Resolution
removing uncollectible accounts receivable and their respective balances from the financial records of
Collier County Public Utilities Department in the amount of $8,539.44 within Water-Sewer District
Operating Fund (408) and Landfill Operating Fund (470). (All Districts) (Staff’s Request)
Continue Item 16G1 to the January 24, 2023, BCC Meeting: Recommendation to approve and authorize the
removal of uncollectible accounts receivable in the amount of $2,050.36 from the financial records of the
Airport Authority Fund (495) in accordance with Resolution 2006-252 and authorize the Chair to execute the
attached Resolution. (All Districts) (Staff’s Request)
Move Item 16K6 to be 12B to be heard at 10 AM: Report to the Board of County Commissioners in
response to Public Comments at the December 13, 2022, Regular Meeting regarding potential conditions
required by a COVID-19 Extra Mile Migrant Farmworker grant. (All Districts) (Commissioner Saunders’,
Commissioner McDaniel’s, and Commissioner Hall’s Separate Requests)
Notes: Correct discrepancy in Item 9B Title: Should be “Recommendation to deny” rather than
“Recommendation to approve” to align with the recommendation published in the executive summary.
TIME CERTAIN ITEMS:
Companion Items 9A and 9B to be heard following the completion of items under sections 11 and 12: Isles of
Capri Mixed Use Planned Unit Development (MPUD) Zoning District.
Item 12B to be heard at 10 AM: Report to the Board of County Commissioners in response to Public
Comments at the December 13, 2022, Regular Meeting regarding potential conditions required by a COVID-
19 Extra Mile Migrant Farmworker grant.
1/24/2023 4:36 PM
January 10, 2023
Page 12
Item #2B
THE BOARD AUTHORIZE THE NEW CHAIRS FOR BOTH THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND THE
COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY TO EXECUTE
ALL DOCUMENTS APPROVED AT BOTH THIS MEETING
AND THOSE DOCUMENTS WHICH WERE PREVIOUSLY
APPROVED BUT ARE PENDING SIGNATURE - MOTION
APPOINTING COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL AND
COMMISSIONER KOWAL TO THE CRA BY COMMISSIONER
LOCASTRO; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS –
APPROVED; MOTION TO APPOINTING COMMISSIONER
LOCASTRO AS CHAIR BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – APPROVED;
MOTION APPOINTING COMMISSIONER HALL AS VICE-
CHAIR BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Yes. Item 2B is a recommendation that
the Board authorize the new Chairs for both the Board of County
Commissioners and the Community Redevelopment Agency to
execute all documents approved at both this meeting and those
documents which were previously approved but are pending
signature.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: So henceforth, let's go ahead and
do the CRA Chairs, because that's something we can do right now,
and then we'll do the changing of the guard for the other and call for a
motion on that. So who are the current chairs of the CRAs? Me
and --
MS. PATTERSON: You and Commissioner Taylor, now
Kowal.
January 10, 2023
Page 13
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Kowal.
MS. PATTERSON: Right. Commissioner Taylor gone and
now Commissioner Kowal.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Make a nomination.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. I nominate that we, I
mean, keep you all as the chair and co-chair for the CRA.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: You don't get a choice.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah, I was told that.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: He was down there saying he
was -- he was down there saying he would accept the position and,
no, you don't get --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: He was somehow mulling it
over.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I thought I accepted it back on
the 13th.
MS. PATTERSON: Oh, that was the advisory portion. So we
have the actual sitting chairs and then the advisory committee.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: All right. It's been moved and
seconded that Commissioner McDaniel and Commissioner Kowal
remain as the chairs for the CRAs within our community. Any other
discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Opposed, same sign, same sound.
January 10, 2023
Page 14
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: So moved.
Now --
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: The floor is yours,
Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Yeah. And I'm going to be brief.
This is -- and bear with us, ladies and gentlemen. We're going
to -- we're going to change chairs. We do this on an annual basis.
Commissioner Saunders was kind enough to bring forward a
resolution quite some time ago that allowed for this to be a fairly
seamless process.
I have a personal belief -- my many personal beliefs, but with
regard to my service, my service as your county commissioner, the
additional duties as serving as the Chair, have been my honor, and I
want to say that to you all. To you all -- everyone on the -- my
mom's watching somewhere out there. So I want to share with you
that it has, in fact, been my honor.
I do believe that the administration of the Chair has to primarily
run and officiate an efficient meeting. I've never regarded myself as
having any additional authority than any of my colleagues up here.
So with that, I want to thank you all.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: We do have a process here. Do
you want to speak?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, I just want to make a
comment to your mother.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Oh. She's watching.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I thought this would be the
appropriate time.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I just want to let you know
January 10, 2023
Page 15
your son has done a remarkable job as our chair. He has been a
great county commissioner. You should be very proud of your son.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Well, thank you. That's very nice.
Commissioner LoCastro, as the incoming chair.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: As the incoming chair, as
Commissioner McDaniel said, we all take a turn here, so it's not a
matter of, you know, if you've all been watching the proceedings up
in Washington, D.C., this is a -- I think a bit more cordial, and a
much more streamlined process. And thanks to, you know,
Commissioner Saunders for ironing this out, I guess, years ago. So
we all get our turn.
But I do think that the Chair has a responsibility to be connected
with the staff maybe sometimes on certain issues a little bit closer
and, as Commissioner McDaniel said, oversee an efficient and
professional process. So I think, you know, as we all take our
turn -- and Commissioner Hall will be up here one year from
now -- it's all our responsibility to have our radar on and our antenna
up to make things as proficient, as professional as possible, and get
things done. And where we see the need for some improvement,
share it with our colleagues here so that we continue to do that.
On a personal note, not only do I want to thank Commissioner
McDaniel for, you know, his long service and especially as Chair, but
I'll just tell you personally, when I was a candidate and I reached out
to all of the sitting commissioners, I got to speak with all of them, but
Commissioner McDaniel spent just a little bit more time with me at a
time when there was plenty of candidates in the race. I certainly
wasn't the frontrunner, and I always appreciated that. I know how
busy these jobs are.
And, you know, so to be able to speak with you and get your
thoughts and ask questions about some big issues that were coming
January 10, 2023
Page 16
up, and the county was very helpful. So I've really been honored, as
we all have, to work, you know, closely with you here. And before
we sort of give you your piece of wood, you know, the plaque, and
move seats, I want to invite other commissioners -- I don't know if
Commissioner Saunders had -- I'll start with him, if he had anything
personal and additional that he wanted to say.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I just want to thank
Commissioner McDaniel for his leadership, and I know that he will
continue to serve the community in a very capable manner, as he has
in the past, and just thank you for your service this past year.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal,
anything you want to add?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. I haven't had the
pleasure of serving under Commissioner Daniels [sic] as long as the
other commissioners here, but the last few months have been a very
easy, you know, process for us, coming in and coming onboard with
Commissioner Hall. And I have to say the same thing, you know,
when I was in campaigning, and anytime I ran across Commissioner
McDaniel, he would always give me a little bit of words of advice,
and a lot of those things really helped me along the way, and I just
want to thank him for that.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'll just ditto it all.
I remember -- I appreciate your help in the campaign, and then
after -- after the primary, you know, the onboarding process, the
thousands of questions that I asked and the time that you spent with
me. And I'll never forget, you know, I never have said anything
politically correct a lot, and I said something, and I got a phone call,
and he pre-cursed it with, "What I'm about to say I'm going to say in
love," and I always appreciated that. So thank you.
January 10, 2023
Page 17
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: To you my friend, to you. Do you
want to get the deed done?
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I guess somebody make a
motion.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to
make a motion to appoint Commissioner Rick LoCastro as our Chair.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll do a separate motion for
the Vice Chair.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Okay. It's been moved and
seconded that we appoint Commissioner LoCastro as the incoming
chair. Any other discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: Opposed, same sign, same sound.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN McDANIEL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to
make a motion -- and this is to Mr. Chairman LoCastro at this point.
I'd like to make a motion to appoint Chris Hall as our vice chairman.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I second it. Or you second it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You can't second. You can.
You can do whatever you want. You're the Chair now.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Seconded by Commissioner
McDaniel. All in favor?
January 10, 2023
Page 18
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. It passes unanimously.
Nobody voted "present," by the way, so that was a unanimous
vote. Do you see how efficient we are here in Collier County?
COMMISSIONER HALL: No concessions.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Marie was specific about
having us down front for the pictures. This is Maria, by the way.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So, Mom, if you're watching at
home --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: She is.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- your son here, William L.
McDaniel, Collier County Commissioner, District 5, in grateful
appreciation for outstanding leadership as Chairman of the Board for
2022. You raised a pretty good son, we think.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Pretty good.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Presented by the Collier County
Board of Commissioners, January 10th, 2023.
Sir, thank you for your service.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Outstanding.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Take a picture here with my team.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Put the thorn between the
couple of roses.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let's get to work. Go
January 10, 2023
Page 19
back to work.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: This won't take but about two
seconds here -- two minutes. I've just got to grab my stuff.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Let it be known, too, that
no concessions were made to anybody that voted unanimously here.
Nobody was promised any commissioner seats or anything like that,
right?
Okay. Well, we move along with our process here.
County Manager.
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING JANUARY 16, 2023, AS A
DAY TO REMEMBER AND CELEBRATE REV. DR. MARTIN
LUTHER KING JR.'S DREAM. ACCEPTED BY VINCENT
KEEYS, PRESIDENT, COLLIER COUNTY BRANCH OF THE
NAACP, AND OTHER DISTINGUISHED GUESTS. MOTION TO
ADOPT THE PROCLAMATION BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS –
ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Sir, that brings us to Item 4,
proclamations. Item 4A is a proclamation designating January 16th,
2023, as a day to remember and celebrate Reverend Dr. Martin
Luther King, Junior's, dream. To be accepted by Vincent Keeys,
president, Collier County branch of the NAACP, and other
distinguished guests.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That was a cupid shuffle, is what
we just saw there.
(Applause.)
January 10, 2023
Page 20
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Keeys, I'm sure you'd like to
say a few words. Yes, sir, absolutely.
MR. KEEYS: Good morning, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Good morning, sir.
MR. KEEYS: Commissioners and staff, I want to say my name
is Vincent Keeys. I have the honor and privilege to serve this great
county, and it is my privilege to invite you to the first parade for this
centennial year, and we would like to have everyone come out,
including the public. We intend to have a day of service on
January 16th. Power at its best is love implementing the demands of
justice, Dr. Martin Luther King's legacy of inclusion and diversity.
We would just love to have everyone out. The City of Naples will
be celebrating the centennial celebration, and we'd like to make sure
that it's a big celebration for us all.
So, please, I know you have staffing needs, and hopefully
sometime in the future we can see the county with a float to be in the
parade. So, please, we would love to have the county out in full
force, and if we could have some of the vehicles there, it would be
great. So, please, plan to attend. We absolutely ask everyone to
come out. Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR. KEEYS: And it does begin at Broad and Third, and it
starts at 11:00 a.m. The lineup begins at 9:30. And we look
forward to a big celebration in Cambier Park at 12:00.
Any questions? If there are, please see Diane Keeys.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, I was going to say.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And, of course, it's on Monday,
January 16th. It goes without saying. So look forward to seeing
you there.
Okay. County Manager, next proclamation.
January 10, 2023
Page 21
Item #4B
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING JANUARY 2023 AS HUMAN
TRAFFICKING AWARENESS MONTH IN COLLIER COUNTY.
ACCEPTED BY LINDA OBERHAUS, CHIEF EXECUTIVE
OFFICER, THE SHELTER FOR ABUSED WOMEN &
CHILDREN - MOTION TO ADOPT THE PROCLAMATION BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 4B is a proclamation designating
January 2023 as Human Trafficking Awareness Month in Collier
County. Ms. Oberhaus was unavoidably detained this morning.
The proclamation will be delivered to her and the Shelter for Abused
Women and Children.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
Business of the Month.
Item #5A
PRESENTATION OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BUSINESS OF
THE MONTH FOR JANUARY 2023 TO THE INN AT PELICAN
BAY. ACCEPTED BY STEVE DORCY, GENERAL MANAGER.
ALSO ATTENDING ARE MICHAEL DALBY, CEO, AND
BETHANY SAWYER, VICE PRESIDENT OF MEMBERSHIP
AND INVESTORS, THE GREATER NAPLES CHAMBER OF
COMMERCE – PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Yep. That brings us to Item 5. Item 5A
is a presentation of the Collier County Business of the Month for
January 2023 to the Inn at Pelican Bay. The award will be accepted
January 10, 2023
Page 22
by Steve Dorcy, general manager. Also attending are Michael
Dalby, CEO, and Bethany Sawyer, vice president of membership and
investors, the Greater Naples Chamber of Commerce.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Great. Do you want to
say -- would anybody like to say a few words, sir?
MR. DORSEY: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The floor is yours.
MR. DORSEY: Thank you. As said, my name is Steve
Dorcy. I'm the general manager at the Inn at Pelican Bay.
We are a 100-room small hotel. We have 41 employees
currently. The hotel's been there 30 years. Our group has owned it
for 16 years. It's locally owned, locally managed. No outside
sources. Everyone's Collier County residents that has anything to do
with the ownership of the hotel.
It's been an interesting 90 days. We had the hurricane. We
had beaches closed, but when the beaches opened up, the phones
started ringing. So it's going to be a great year this year, I think, for
the hotels in Collier County.
During Ian, we took in gold star families for free to help them.
We had about seven rooms of gold star families live with us. And
we took in a number of other people in the area that were just
displaced during that time period. And then, you know, November
came along, December. Everyone kind of found a place of where
they needed to be and everything.
But we take huge pride in being part of Collier County. Our
little hotel, it's a 100-room hotel, like I said. If you went to
TripAdvisor, for the past two years, we're ranked the No. 1 hotel out
of 57 hotels in Collier County, and that's on guest scores, not on ads
or anything like that at all.
But this is a great honor. I really appreciate the Chamber and
January 10, 2023
Page 23
everyone honoring us for this. So it's -- we really enjoy it. Thank
you very much.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir. Congratulations.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, before we move on, can
we get a motion to accept the proclamations.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So it's been moved and seconded.
All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It's approved.
MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.
Item #5B
ARTIST OF THE MONTH – MELISSA BLAZIER, SUPERVISOR
OF ELECTIONS – ART FOR DEMOCRACY - STUDENTS FROM
VARIOUS SCHOOLS AND GRADES K-12 – PRESENTED
MS. PATTERSON: Item 5B is the Artist of the Month, and we
have something a little bit different this month. So we have Melissa
Blazier, Supervisor of Elections Office chief deputy is here to talk to
us about our artists.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How about that.
January 10, 2023
Page 24
MS. BLAZIER: Good morning, Commissioners. Thank you
for having me. Again, for the record, my name is Melissa Blazier.
I'm the chief deputy in the Supervisor of Elections Office.
And this month's Artists, plural, of the Month are students in
grades K through 12 that participated in the Supervisor of Elections
Office annual Art for Democracy contest. The vision for the Art for
Democracy contest is to obtain, showcase, and judge artwork that
expresses what the Democratic process means to student artists in
Collier County.
The Collier County Supervisor of Elections Office in partnership
with Collier County Public Schools and Champions for Learning
annually invites students in grades K through 12 to submit original
artwork with voting and election-related themes.
Since its launch in 2015, the contest has received hundreds of
original pieces of artwork from students across the county, and the
winning artwork has been published in election-based calendars,
notebooks, and has also served as our "I voted" sticker during the
2020 and 2022 election cycles.
So we just wanted to thank you for the opportunity for us to
display the artwork created by these students, as you can see all
around you. We are very proud of them. We are excited to
showcase and share their artwork with you and throughout the month
of January. So thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, Ms. Blazier.
(Applause.)
MS. BLAZIER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Keeys, I'll also note, in honor
of Dr. Martin Luther King, there is a portrait back there that is just so
high quality. I mean, a student did that. You'll see that. It's on the
far wall. But we invite you to take a look at the art done by our local
students.
January 10, 2023
Page 25
Okay. County Manager, next, public comment.
Item #7
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA
MS. PATTERSON: Item 7 is public comments on general
topics not on the current or future agenda.
Troy.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, we have nine registered speakers on
this item. I'll remind the speakers to use both podiums and please
queue up.
Your first speaker is Jackie Keay. She'll be followed by
Lourdes Armas.
MS. KEAY: Good morning. Jackie Keay.
Not only is righteous anger Biblical and demonstrated by Jesus,
it's also protected under free speech. Free speech can be suppressed
only when there is credible fear that injury or violence will occur.
A major grievance I have is that of toxic and morally corrupt
tyrants being appointed to leadership position at local, state, and
federal levels. A tyrant is defined as someone who treats people as
they have the authority over in an unfair, oppressive, and cruel
manner.
Additionally, tyrants ridicule, demonize, and persuade
anyone -- or persecute anyone who opposes their agenda, and they
encourage their followers to do the same.
Key characteristics of tyrants include traits as a thirst for power,
lying and deceit, discrimination, lack of empathy, grandiosity, blame
others for their incompetence and ineptitude, and an indifference to
morally conventional -- and laws and rules. Tyrants are also corrupt
January 10, 2023
Page 26
and abuse their political power to benefit themselves, their donors,
special interest groups, and like-minded supporters.
There's also an abuse of function in which corrupt leaders
perform or fail to perform any act or duty for the express purpose of
benefiting themselves, another person, or entity. Tyrants are
insecure bullies who manipulate, control through threats, fears, and
abuse, and often solicit support via charisma, handouts, and favorable
decisions. That -- they, in fact, encourage loyalty to themselves
rather than to God, community, state, and country.
Such types of corruptions include gaffe, which is a use of the
deception and the subordination of public interest for personal benefit
or gain and a callous disregard for the consequences suffered by the
public, influence pedaling, networks, abuse of discretion, as well as
favoritism and clientelism, which is quid pro quo when the special
interest groups are benefited at the expense of the public.
Lastly, the destructive consequences of corruption include
rigged economic and political systems undermining sustainable
development goals, economic loss, and inefficiency, poverty and
inequity, and failures in infrastructure. As we all know, these types
of deals are made in backroom in secrecy, and you can always see the
consequences of them based on the deterioration of our community.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Before I call this next speaker, I want to remind
everyone, please silence your cell phones.
Next up is Lourdes Armas. She'll be followed by Tim
Carpenter.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, good morning.
MS. ARMAS: Good morning, Mr. Chairman.
I'm going to use myself as an example. I have had housing
instability since COVID. I'm a professional woman. I'm 58 years
old and, you know, it hasn't been stable.
January 10, 2023
Page 27
In Hurricane Ian I was displaced. I live -- I'm a Marco Island
resident, and I'm here today because in November I was given a letter
of approval for rental assistance relocation, rehousing to stabilize the
people, to stabilize the community.
I went out. I got the lease. I'm supposed to have been moving
in on January 15th. On January 3rd, I received a letter saying that
my lease is -- they had the lease since 12/22. On 1/4, I get an email
saying that I am not going to be able to be housed because they ran
out of money, and that brings me to my question.
On October 25th, HUD came here with President Biden, and
they gave Collier County almost 900,000 emergency funds to
augment the regular rental assistance programs. As of today, I am
told that possibly in February that program will begin. And I have
been up and down Human Services Division speaking to different
people. I am told that the Board of Commissioners has not approved
the disbursement of those funds.
So I'm here to ask the question: Where's that money?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you want to address, or
do you want me to?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, if you have a -- if you want to
address it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Number one, I just want to
clarify, I think today, we moved some money around to be able to
support the issue with rental assistance. That happened in the
consent agenda before we started.
Number 2, this is not the time for questions and answers. This
is for you to share your concerns and what's, in fact, going on.
Speak with Commissioner LoCastro. He is the commissioner of
District 1. He's the Chairman of the Board. You greeted him when
you walked up. Share with him what you, in fact, have going on,
and I'm sure he will assist you to get you through the process.
January 10, 2023
Page 28
MS. ARMAS: Thank you, because right now the process is not
working, and that's why I'm here today.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You're not the Lone Ranger.
MS. ARMAS: No. But, you know, problems are meant to be
solved, and so unless we speak up -- everybody keeps passing the
ball, and here we are today, and it's just not working. There's many
programs. It's a large budget. There's -- it's many pieces to grapple,
and it's -- it's personal. It's housing. You can't get more personal
than that, but it's not working.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
MS. ARMAS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So what I would say, thank
you -- first of all, thank you for coming.
MS. ARMAS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And you're in the building
where -- this is where those funds are controlled, so --
MS. ARMAS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- I will say to the County
Manager, don't leave this building until somebody from our staff
immediately connects with you.
Second, a lot of people have been helped by that money, but
every person is important. So if, you know, you're one of those that
fell through the crack, the dates are a little weird, we didn't approve
something or whatnot, we care about that.
MS. ARMAS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So don't leave here until our
County Manager has connected you with a person, and then I would
like feedback on her particular case and how we're addressing it
aggressively.
MS. PATTERSON: Absolutely.
MS. ARMAS: Thank you.
January 10, 2023
Page 29
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Tim Carpenter. He will
be followed by Tauheedah Mateen.
MR. CARPENTER: Good morning, Commissioners, public,
and Bill McDaniel's mother. All of you, glad to be here this
morning.
All men are created equal. We've been working on that for 250
years in our nation, and we still don't have it exactly right, but we're
working on it.
I can remember in the late '60s, early '70s, with bell-bottom
pants, two-inch belt, hair down to my shoulders, rioting, and working
for those efforts to make everything equal for everyone. But it's not
equal. It doesn't ever become equal.
We hear words -- as we get closer to being equal, we hear words
like "entitled," "I deserve it," "I should have it." "It belongs to me."
All of these things we hear as we get closer to equality, but he have
turned equality into equity, and we have to be careful as we make the
transition and make sure our focus stays on equality.
You know, it is not equality when a woman's feelings outweigh
the life of a baby. That is not equality; that is equity.
It is not equality when a medical worker, a teacher, a county
employer gets housing assistance, and a lady that has a cleaning
business moves from her three-bedroom house into a one-room
apartment because that's all she can afford. That is equity; that is not
equality.
Also, it is not fair, it is not equitable, it is not equal when a
tenant can give a landlord a 30-day notice because that person went
to Seed to Table and met somebody they hooked up with and moved
in and gave the landlord the 30-day notice they're leaving where the
landlord cannot -- has to give a 60-day notice because he got his
utility bills, and there is a water bill and electric bill that he opened at
January 10, 2023
Page 30
the same time, and he got shocked when he did it because that bill
was 40 percent increase. He has to wait 60 days before he can make
any decisions or make any changes.
So we have to move our county closer to equality, further from
equity. You guys are elected to provide equality in the county, not
to provide equity to the people that live here in Collier County.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, Mr. Carpenter.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Tauheedah Mateen, and
she will be followed by Rae Ann Burton.
MS. MATEEN: Good morning. My name is Tauheedah
Mateen, United States Small Business Administration, the SBA, and
I'm temporarily deployed here.
So first of all, I just want to say that the declaration, of course, is
winding down, but people still need the help and the resources to start
their recovery process, work through their recovery process.
The physical deadline for people to apply with FEMA and
submit their SBA application for physical damages is in two days.
So, you know, we've been boots on the ground since September
making sure that we get the word out. For those watching, those in
the audience, make sure that you understand, call -- you can call
FEMA. You can register through your app. No matter how small
you think your damages are.
If they refer you to the SBA, for those homeowners and renters,
submit that application as soon as possible. If you do not submit that
SBA application after a referral from FEMA, that recovery referral
process ends. So we just, you know, make sure that people
understand how intricate the SBA piece is to the recovery puzzle for
long-term recovery.
The SBA phone number is (800)659-2955. You can get into
the queue; make sure that you're in that process to start that, you
January 10, 2023
Page 31
know, recovery process, of course, before the deadline ends for those
physical damages.
Businesses, you have until June 29th, 2023, to submit an
application for working capital. So for those businesses who were
shut down, maybe still shut down, they can get working capital from
the SBA to pay their taxes, to pay their light bill, just to stay in
business as if Hurricane Ian never happened.
Right now just a couple numbers. The SBA has approved over
$1.4 billion in Florida in all of the declared counties under Hurricane
Ian. Collier County is $74 million of that. Applications are in
process daily, so that number is fluid, and it keeps increasing day by
day as -- you know, as we keep approving those loans.
To find the Disaster Recovery Center, the DRC locator is on
FEMA.gov. You can find that SBA is ready and willing there to
make sure that you get the help that you need. You can go in to talk
about your denials, your reconsideration.
Uh-oh, I'm running out of time.
So I just want to mention that the Collier County Disaster
Recovery Center -- I just got this -- will be temporarily closed this
Wednesday, January 11th -- I'm sorry, January 11th from 9:00 a.m. to
1:30. They're just moving to a different room in the same building at
the Eagle Lake Community Park.
I do want to thank you, Commissioner Hall, and your executive
coordinator, Jarvis, for your communication and collaboration with
me and the county PIL's. Thank you so much for helping us get the
information out. Have a good day.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Ask her -- would you like
some more time?
MS. MATEEN: No, not really. I think I've got it out there. If
it's, you know, on video and people can see that, your constituents,
January 10, 2023
Page 32
but I will continue to keep in touch via email and, you know, I
just -- I'm handling Lee County as well, so I'm just trying to -- yeah.
I'm just trying to do the work that I can to make sure that everyone
knows that that deadline is coming up and, you know, get into the
centers. Call the 1-800 number, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The SBA's been invaluable in
assisting our community throughout the process and helping folks
with the disaster cleanup and so on and so forth, so thank you.
MS. MATEEN: Yeah. Thank you so much, and thank you for
all of your help.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. And I'll echo to folks in the
audience and the people that are watching. Please reach out to the
county staff. And I think I speak for all -- I know I speak for every
elected official up here. If there's something that, much like this
lady, you know, in her example has fallen through the crack or
they're not really sure where to go, we can direct the traffic by a mere
email, you know, to us or a phone call to our office, and so we have
people that are here to help. We appreciate you extending your
hours and, you know, moving around to different locations to make it
more convenient for our citizens, and a lot of people have been
helped, but we need to find those pockets of people that didn't get the
information properly, and --
MS. MATEEN: Right.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- we're all here to assist with that.
Thank you, ma'am.
MS. MATEEN: Thank you so much. Have a good day.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Thank you. Good job.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Rae Ann Burton. She'll
be followed by Scott Sherman.
MS. BURTON: Good morning, Commissioners. My name is
Rae Ann Burton, Rural Golden Gate Estates.
January 10, 2023
Page 33
I don't get up at 6:00 a.m. to drive today, one hour and 10
minutes, for fun. I have grave concerns about the destruction and
endangering of the Estates wildlife and development issues that may
even affect me keeping my home.
That is why I have submitted a GAC application submitted
August the 7th, 2022. Was supposed to be interviewed
November 14th. The very day of the interview, received an email.
Would not be interviewed that night, but come anyway.
At the meeting I and another applicant who both live in the
Estates were told that there were other applicants, but they didn't
know who they were. Told that we would be interviewed later, but
no date was set for the rest of the year. Now almost two months
later, and five months since I sent in the application -- I thought there
was a cutoff date for the application -- it's my understanding the GAC
is vital for the final disbursement of the lands held for the Estates.
So my question is, one, why is the GAC not holding monthly
meetings? Two, why were the interviews canceled? Three, who
are the late applicants? Four, why have I and the other applicant not
been notified of upcoming meetings? Five, why the GAC members
are being so secretive about my interview? Six, why the holdup?
It's been five months since the application sent in and two since I was
told I'd be interviewed. Seven, when will our interviews be held?
Since I live in Golden Gate Estates, the GAC is important
enough for me to want to be part of making decisions that benefit
Golden Gate Estates.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Scott Sherman. He will
be followed by Beth Sherman.
MR. SHERMAN: Good morning, Commissioners. Welcome
to the new commissioners as well.
I wanted to let you know my name is Scott Sherman. I was a
January 10, 2023
Page 34
biomedical engineer for 35 years, and I have extensive experience
reading and interpreting medical journal articles, and I also have
extensive training and understanding of microbiology. Therefore, I
have the credentials and authority to speak on the following matters.
(Interruption by the stenographer for clarification.)
MR. SHERMAN: Sorry. I only have three minutes.
We had egregious failures during the last two years when
following guidance from the Florida Health Department, the CDC,
and the W.H.O. The state, national, and global organizations were
so wrong it borders on incompetence or indicates malicious intent.
To begin, I want to point out that these organizations pushed our
local failures in science and critical thinking during this time. The
first was the school board's reference for why they chose to mandate
masks. It was not a peer-reviewed paper but an NCH white paper on
personal protective equipment or PPE. The paper concluded there
was about a 1 percent decrease in transition of viruses when their
staff was wearing goggles, masks, gowns, and gloves. So,
apparently, no one read or understood the science upon which this
decision was based. These organizations convinced us to make
fundamental changes on how we approach healthcare completely.
Before 2019 and for a millennia, we only quarantined and tested
the sick. During COVID, they convinced the world to quarantine
and test the healthy. They skewed the data by including all the
deaths of persons with COVID instead of reporting those that died
because of COVID. They hid the fact that most of the COVID
deaths reported were patients who had at least three comorbidities.
They coerced doctors to ignore multiple historically proven
treatments and made it illegal for a doctor to decide what was best for
their patients. They pushed an experimental mRNA technology that
did not stop infection or transmission. Not only was it ineffective, it
has now been proven to cause a lot of harm.
January 10, 2023
Page 35
The Florida Surgeon General, Dr. Joseph Lapado, has a
statement currently on the Florida Department of Health website that
says there's an 84 percent increase in the relative incident of
cardiac-related death among males 18 to 39 years old within 28 days
following mRNA vaccination.
So this county needs safeguards against medical tyranny. If
another pandemic disease arises, we must go back to the older
methods of containment. We must quarantine and test only the
symptomatic individuals, we try proven treatments, and make it legal
for a doctor to decide what is best for their patient. We must not
allow unelected global organizations and pharmaceutical companies
to dictate treatments en masse for our county.
We stand at a crossroad. We have new leadership in this
county with whom we hope to work together with for the best of all
our people. Our call to action is to lead this county with a Biblical
perspective. We just want to remind our elected officials to be
careful and measured with decisions on scientific matters, critically
think and challenge all the science before accepting a course of
action. This is what real scientists do; we critically think and we
challenge that which does not hold up to scrutiny.
Thank you and God bless.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Beth Sherman. She will
be followed by Stephanie Nordan.
MS. SHERMAN: Hello. Thank you very much.
My husband just mentioned the Florida Department of Health's
statement by Surgeon General Dr. Joseph Lapado with the 84 percent
increase in the relative incident of cardiac-related deaths among
males 18 to 39 years old within 28 days following mRNA
vaccination. They're working on getting that up on the screen for
you.
My request to you is throughout this entire pandemic over the
January 10, 2023
Page 36
past two years, you guys have put out every single statement that
[sic] the Florida Department of Health on your social media;
however, you have not put this out. So I would request that this goes
out immediately. It's an ongoing issue of safety within not only the
county but the human race.
I also wanted to talk about some new data that I've come across.
It's from a woman named Sasha Latypova. She is a former
executive of a pharmaceutical company, and she is a contact resource
organization manager. She states that she has obtained new
information on the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine. This
was released through Freedom of Information Act requests from the
Department of Defense and the Securities and Exchange Commission
disclosures. There are over 400 docs available for viewing.
The DOD used shady contracting practices and laws previously
put in place to shield critical companies. Clinical trials for the
vaccine, the coronavirus vaccine, were not even conducted, and they
set motions in place to shield everyone involved. If you took this
injection, you are now part of the clinical trial and you were
deceived. There were many people deceived, including the FDA
employees because the scam was driven from the top down. And
when I say "the top down," I mean the Pentagon. These documents
were released through our own Department of Defense.
The information consent requirements were waived so that
subjects do not have to be informed what is going on, and it is
deemed, quote, not in their best interest. This was an amendment
put in place by Obama for use during a public health emergency.
This is why they keep extending the public health emergency. These
are not vaccines. In the documents they are listed as, quote, military
countermeasures, and they cannot be investigated because of the law.
The Trump and Biden Administration declared COVID as an act
of war. This is how they are able to distribute an experimental
January 10, 2023
Page 37
injection as a, quote, countermeasure.
So why is a health event being kept so secret? That's a great
question. I implore you to look into it. The Florida Supreme Court
ruled that Governor DeSantis can impanel a grand jury to investigate
COVID-19 vaccine makers. I ask everyone for prayers on this
matter for our great governor.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Stephanie Nordan. She'll
be followed by Randy Harris.
MS. NORDAN: Good morning, Commissioners. For the
record, my name is Stephanie Nordan. I am a Marco Island native,
and I'm now raising four boys here in Collier County. I'm also a
community and education advocate for individuals and families with
autism spectrum disorder.
I approached the Board one year ago this last January as a mom
of two boys with autism desperate for some solutions pertaining to
health and safety with interactions with the police. I had seen a lot
of things on TV on what happens when police is involved, and I was
concerned. I called every number, resource that I had and kept
getting wrong numbers, companies that are out of order.
And Commissioner Rick LoCastro took some time after I
approached the Board and connected me with Sergeant Dan
McDonald. Sergeant Dan McDonald started the autism support
project here in 2021. He's trained over 1,200 officers. He goes
around the community teaching just regular old folk like us how to
interact with individuals with autism and has created a nationwide
model for other police departments across the nation.
This experience, along with a few other things that have
happened this year, have been the inspiration to create a nonprofit
called Autism Collier which will create dedicated resources for those
who are in the community. There are many challenges that come
January 10, 2023
Page 38
along with life in the autism spectrum. Finding the resources and
knowing who to talk to shouldn't be one of them.
My public comment today is just a deep and sincere gratitude
for your commitment to serve and creating equality here in Collier
County.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Randy Harris. He'll be
followed by Daniel Zegarac.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, I just wanted to ask, how's
your son doing?
MS. NORDAN: He's doing fabulous.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Great.
MR. MILLER: Randy Harris.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't see Randy.
MR. MILLER: All right. Daniel Zegarac.
MR. ZEGARAC: My name is Daniel Zegarac. Good
morning, Commissioners, and congratulations to the new
commissioners, and congratulations to the old timers that are still
coming here, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: What are you saying?
MR. ZEGARAC: Commissioner/Chairman LoCastro, in a
recent newsletter you mentioned paradise and old septic tanks in the
same paragraph. Can we expect Collier County to address old septic
tanks this year with urgency, especially tanks that are located so close
to our precious coast?
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: And I see Mr. Harris has come into the room,
Randy Harris. This will be your final public speaker for public
comment, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you very much.
January 10, 2023
Page 39
First off, thank you, Commissioners. You've got a tough job,
so I just pray God's wisdom over you, and I hope you'll accept that.
There was a couple of headlines that hit me this week. Biden
Administration says the post office can violate abortion bans, mail
dangerous abortion pills to pro life states. That's from lifenews.com.
We've also got another headline about CVS -- CVS and Walgreens as
well pouring out these pills.
Look, I know I think you visited this once before about trying to
make Collier County a sanctuary county for the unborn. I'd love to
see that. I don't think you will because I know the reasons why you
won't. But let me just ask you this: Some of you are old
enough -- and I won't point at who on this dais is probably that old,
but I am. There was a movie called Field of Dreams, and there was
a line in that that everybody repeated forever. It said, if you build it,
they will come.
Well, I'm saying to you today, if you will stand for life, others
will follow you. And if you take a stand for life in Collier County
and say, you know what, since 1973 we have realized that what
decision was made was probably not made with any kind of scientific
evidence hardly at all except convenience. Now we understand what
life is like in the womb of a mother. And all I'm doing is just asking
that we can put life back into Collier County and if you would at least
consider, please, a ban -- making it a sanctuary county in Collier, and
I would appreciate that very much.
Hey, guys, have a great day. God bless you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, I had one speaker who did not put
an item number and wanted to be in this item, Desre Burski.
MS. BURSKI: Thanks. Good morning, gentlemen. Thank
you, Commissioners. Congratulations, Rick, on being chairman.
I'm always grateful for the opportunity to address this board.
And I just want to say that I am super grateful that you are all taking
January 10, 2023
Page 40
the time to look into the grant that was awarded by the CDC. I think
after listening to Scott and Beth, we all know that there's been some
overreach of federal government. And we are counting on you guys
to protect the people of Collier County.
So we look to you and we reach out to you, and we are grateful
to you for taking a stand on our behalf and protecting our human
rights.
Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Is that the last speaker?
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. County Manager, are we
moving to our 10:00?
MS. PATTERSON: We are moving to our 10:00 time-certain.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I just wanted to say one thing
about our septic tanks and paradise. It actually wasn't in the exact
same sentence, and it's because I share your thought. And I will
say -- I will say in Collier County, there's -- we've had a -- maybe not
as aggressive of a move, but a lot of septic tanks have been changed
out. My biggest concern in District 1 is we haven't done it
aggressively over the last 10 years, which we should have. So I
share your concern, if you would. And thanks for being a newsletter
subscriber, so more to come. But I appreciate you highlighting that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do they have to pay a fee to
be on your newsletter?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No. I might start charging.
Okay. Ms. Patterson, our 10 o'clock.
Item #12B
REPORT TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IN
January 10, 2023
Page 41
RESPONSE TO PUBLIC COMMENTS AT THE DECEMBER 13,
2022, REGULAR MEETING REGARDING POTENTIAL
CONDITIONS REQUIRED BY A COVID-19 EXTRA MILE
MIGRANT FARMWORKER GRANT - MOTION TO BRING
BACK DETAILED INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT IS BEING
PROVIDED RELATED TO HEALTHCARE AT A FUTURE BCC
MEETING BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Absolutely. This is formerly Item 16K6,
now 12B. This is a report to the Board of County Commissioners in
response to public comments at the December 13th, 2022, regular
meeting regarding potential conditions required by a COVID-19
Extra Mile Migrant Farmworker grant. We do have Mr. Jamie
Ulmer who will be in the room momentarily from the Healthcare
Network. But we'll start with the County Attorney -- this is his
item -- and we have Maggie Lopez from the Office of Management
and Budget as well.
MR. KLATZKOW: Commissioners, you asked me to come
back on a report on this matter, which I did. This particular grant
does have, in boilerplate, mandates and directives, none of which
exist at this time.
It is not very different from any other federal grant I've been
working on for 20 years where you get boilerplates of directives and
mandates that never really happen. We're almost looking at, like,
monsters in closets. I mean, you know, we think there's something
there, but there's really not. It's just a simple grant, and I believe we
have somebody that will speak as to what the monies were used for.
MS. PATTERSON: We do have Mr. Jamie Ulmer here from
the Healthcare Network. He is a sub-recipient of some of this
money, and he's here to answer your questions and to speak to the
January 10, 2023
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good that's being done with this money at this point in time.
Mr. Ulmer.
MR. ULMER: Good morning, and thank you. For the record,
I am Jamie Ulmer, the CEO for Healthcare Network.
I'd like to say thank you for allowing me the opportunity to
come this morning. I think I've had the opportunity to meet most of
you all and will be on your calendar for those that I have not had a
chance to meet. Congratulations to the new County Commissioners.
I'd like to also take this opportunity to say thank you for allowing me
to speak for those who do not have a voice.
Community health workers are different than outreach workers.
Healthcare Network is one of very few federally qualified health
centers not only in the state of Florida but throughout this region who
have certified community health workers.
So what does that mean? In the state of Georgia, South
Carolina, Florida, and North Carolina, there is one, only one, certified
community health worker in the state of Florida, and there is only one
in North Carolina, as well as Georgia. So there's only three in the
region of four states. And so it makes it more applicable for the
CDC to have approved us for this opportunity.
So our community health workers allow us to build trust in
vulnerable communities throughout Collier County by delivering
culturally and language-appropriate information about critical health
matters. It's not specific to COVID-19. It's not specific to any
mandates. It is specific to increasing healthcare access to those
underserved areas of Collier County.
The multi-lingual and multi-cultural team consist of registered
nurses, licensed practical nurses, medical assistants, and individuals
with experience in public health and health education.
And this is really interesting, because this is what differentiates
us. As community health workers, we have healthcare providers on
January 10, 2023
Page 43
this team. And so when they knock on someone's door, they're able
to provide aid and healthcare right there on the spot and refer them to
a medical home and/or an urgent care or an emergency room. To
reach those living in remote areas, community health workers employ
several tactics from door-to-door outreach, community collaboration,
and participating in community events.
This grant has provided the opportunity for us to hire six
community health workers and provide extensive training. This
training has been coordinated and provided by Florida State
University, Partners in Health, as well as our providers from
Healthcare Network. I could go through a laundry list of the
different types of training, but it ranges from cultural competency,
challenging household visits, secondary posttraumatic stress
disorders, and mental health training.
The collaboration alone is incredible because we don't do this
alone. This particular grant has allowed us to work with Partners in
Health, the Department of Health, RCMA and Guadalupe Center,
David Lawrence Center, Immokalee Foundation, Golisano Children's
Hospital, as well as NCH Healthcare, Catholic Charities, Littman
Family Farms, and many other entities throughout Collier County.
But I want to speak to the exact impact that this has provided in
some of the underserved areas. We've been able to address
healthcare access and disparities in healthcare in Immokalee,
Everglades City, Chokoloskee, and some parts of Golden Gate: 122
community events; 617 blood pressure checks from patients that
we've stopped by their homes. We have blood pressure monitoring.
So if a person does not have their blood pressure monitoring hooked
up after about two or three days, we can actually go to their house
and say, hey, what's going on and, with that clinical team with these
community health workers, confirm that they're okay; 505 glucose
reading monitors; 868 canvassing. During the actual hurricane we
January 10, 2023
Page 44
used this team -- although it's part of the grant, we used this team to
provide tetanus shots to members within the community; 1,300 care
packages; flu shots; and 14 different people that we were able to
transport to healthcare facilities.
I close by saying that although a grant may have some
stipulations that speak specific and they use the language of
COVID-19, for Healthcare Network COVID-19 is in our rearview
mirror. We're utilizing these funds as we go forward to provide
healthcare access to, obviously, a part of Collier County that is
underserved.
Thank you. And I'll be willing to take any questions that you
may have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good morning, Jamie.
MR. ULMER: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm looking forward to our
visit. I think you are -- or I am on your calendar coming up here
directly.
MR. ULMER: I am on your calendar, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One of the -- and, again, I
was -- I'm the commissioner for Immokalee and an enormous amount
of underserved migrant workers in our community. I was on weekly
phone calls with your predecessor.
MR. ULMER: Emily.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Dr. Emily. I can't say her
last name. But weekly phone calls with our Health Department and
such, and there were promotoras that were going door to door. One
of the questions that I had for you -- and if you have the information,
I'd like to see it. What was being promoted? What was being done
when those promotoras were going door to door? There's a unique
circumstance in Immokalee with the ethnicity, differences of ethnic
January 10, 2023
Page 45
backgrounds. You mentioned in your presentation the trust level.
Because I know I have a portion of my community that doesn't feel
well about going to the Guadalupe, so they go to RCMA, and then I
have a portion -- I have a Haitian population that won't go to either
one of those, and then I have the Immokalee Workers Coalition who
does their thing while they're doing their thing. So there's a lot of
factions that are going on out there.
But one of the things -- I know when we were talking that we
were very much pro-education on proper health circumstances,
pro-education on resources that were available for our community, if
you -- but I didn't really actually look in the goodie bag that was
being -- that was brought along with the promotoras. I call it a
goodie bag. There was a package there.
I didn't ever actually look to see what was in it. I know that I
had given direction for locations of assets. Government's providing
assets. If you want to wear a mask, here's where you go to get a
mask. If you want to take the shot, here's where you go to take the
shot. I stood with the Governor when he opened up the monoclonal
treatment facility in Immokalee, and that was funded by federal
money coming from the state -- to the state, and he wisely opened up
those treatment facilities. And when they worked, they pulled the
funding.
So my question to you -- and that's a long dissertation to get to
where I want to go is I'd like to know what was done by Partners in
Health. Because they did -- they did an enormous amount of good
for our community, and I know that there are ongoing activities. But
I'd like to know what was informationally put out, and I --
MR. ULMER: First and foremost, I think that, really, you had
the opportunity to -- you kind of answered some of that. In most of
the information, Partners in Health obviously doesn't have the
resources on the ground, so one of the reasons why they work very
January 10, 2023
Page 46
closely with us is because we're that conduit that can go out into the
different parts of the community to speak to the people that you just
spoke about. It is a complex community. You have multi-cultural,
multi-lingual folks that speak very different languages, and so our
team consists of people that comes from them, and they're able to
walk in there, and everyone knows them and can relate to that
individual and listen to say that, hey, here are the resources, it's in
your language, which speak to exactly what you said. Here's a
primary care healthcare for you, which is Healthcare Network there
in Immokalee. We have two locations there.
Our mobile unit will be traveling through on these days, a
schedule of which days that the outreach team will be there to
provide any resources. And because we have healthcare providers
on that mobile unit, they actually also can provide at this time a flu
shot and can provide whatever resources on their flu shot, a COVID
vaccine if they choose to have that, a COVID test.
You know, Immokalee was -- in Collier County was one of the
areas that received probably the most people who got sick, obviously.
And so we needed to get the information to them so if they chose to
use it, they could, and that was one of the big things that Partners in
Health does.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I know you don't have
the specifics, but sometime, maybe when we do have our meeting, I'd
actually like to physically see how the information was disseminated
and what was going on, because there's a lot of people that have a lot
of -- and you're going to get to hear a lot of different opinions today,
but it's imperative to me that -- and there was a previous executive
director.
MR. ULMER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That -- so I want to ensure
that the information that was dispersed was, in fact, informational.
January 10, 2023
Page 47
MR. ULMER: Right. I will make sure that we gather
examples of what that was and get that to you, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Please. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The question that I have, and I
think it's on the minds of the folks that have already come to the
podium, is nobody will argue that grant money hasn't done amazing
things. I mean, people are here screaming for it all the time, and we
fight hard to get grant money for all types of things.
You know, the question is -- and it's really for both of you,
because the County Attorney touched on it a little bit -- what are the
strings attached to it, or are there strings attached to it?
And if it's -- there's always -- somebody might make the
comment, well, there's always strings, but if none of those have risen,
then we -- you know, we're -- like you said, I think you called it the
monsters in the closet that may not be there, and that's -- that
was -- you know, your quote.
But, you know, my question is a bit more definitive, and it's not
focusing on the good that the grant did. That's not really arguable.
That's understood. But are there concerns? What are the concerns?
If something did show itself, what would be our recourse if we
thought we had significant issue with something that was being
mandated because we accepted the grant money? And there's a few
questions, you know, buried in there, but I'll just throw that out so
that we can have that -- because that's really the discussion here, and
I want to get down to the meat on the bone.
So, you know, Jesse, I'll defer to you, but then I also would like
to hear from the County Attorney.
MR. ULMER: Yes. You know, Commissioner LoCastro, I
would say that, like yourself, I'm a military guy. I have been dealing
with, my entire life, mandates, regulations, if -- you know, funding
for certain items that you have to abide by certain requirements. It's
January 10, 2023
Page 48
just been the way that -- that I've done.
Healthcare Network has been in this community for 40 -- going
on 46 years. It is a federally funded, federal qualified health center
with a designation.
If you receive over $750,000, you receive an audit every year.
We have been receiving an audit every year for the last 46 years.
And I'm saying this to say that, because we received federal
funding, it is our life to receive HRSA site visits every three years.
It is our life to go into specific systems and provide our budget and
data every three or four months. This is what we do.
So when we see a grant that's by any entity, more or less the
federal government, it is, to us, a normal operation to have
stipulations that fall within that. This is a little different because it's
funded from ARPA funds, if I can remember correctly. And so
ARPA funds does have an end date, and that end date is coming up
upon us.
And so whatever those stipulations are, we're so used to working
within the confounds of the funding like this that is it is no different
to us. It's normal operations. We have a robust electronic medical
records system that is able to track any requests for data, like how
many people do we treat. I think our overall mission for this grant
was to provide almost 75,000 access to healthcare for people in the
Immokalee area, Golden Gate, and Everglades City area.
And so I feel like this is -- the stipulations upon us is our normal
day operations with no challenges whatsoever to whatever the
requests are. I'm not sure if that really answers your question.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Klatzkow -- well, and I have
two other commissioners up here, but I wanted to hear from our
County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, I would answer that by most grants
were pass through, were passed through to the sub-recipients, large
January 10, 2023
Page 49
not-for-profit entities, and these sub-recipients are all used to working
with these grant funds and with these stipulations and everything
else, and they don't have an issue with them.
Having said that, I will tell you that every grant I've worked on
in 20 years, whether it came from a Republican administration or a
Democratic administration, has had the same darn stipulations in the
back, and they go on page after page after page. And for the life of
me, we've never had any issue with any federal employee telling us
you have to do this or you have to do that. It's just -- it's boilerplate.
And the day that it comes where the federal government decides
to politicize grants is the day that maybe the Board doesn't take the
grants. But at this point in time, these grants are policy. They're
not politics.
And, you know, I see no harm in this grant. I see no harm in
any of the grants. And, you know, if people want to pay more
money in taxes, you know, to make up for the grant money that we
say no to, then we can do that, but I would not recommend that
course.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Good morning. Thank you.
MR. ULMER: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And thank you for your service.
MR. ULMER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Along the same lines with
Commissioner McDaniel and LoCastro with us, I would like to
know -- I came in at the 11th hour, myself and Commissioner Hall.
We weren't here when this initiated, I think it was a year ago, and
now everything's coming back up, you know, revisiting us. And I do
agree -- listen, we have people up here that -- the public spoke and
talked about the money that Biden brought us and the money that
they want for their rent. Those are all things that we received from
January 10, 2023
Page 50
the federal government, and a lot of people in this room request those
things, and they request us to distribute those things. But this
particular item, because it has the CDC connected to it and what's
going on in light of everything in this world today, I think it
heightens a lot of people's senses to what we're doing as
commissioners.
And, like I said, I don't know when this started. You may be
able to help me out. But do you know when the grant actually, you
know, received the first monies and when you first had boots on the
ground actually out there in the Immokalee area or whatever area you
started?
MR. ULMER: Yes, Commissioner Kowal. This particular
grant started in 2021. It was awarded around the August time frame.
We had about three or four months where we had to really canvass
and hire the right people. It wasn't about just hiring folks to fulfill
this grant. It was about hiring the right person.
As Commissioner McDaniel stated, some folks on this team,
about a third are Haitian, a third are Latino. And it really matters
specifically to where and who. A lot of them are farmworkers
themselves, or were. And so it took us about four to six months to
identify them and hire them.
So within that first year I would say we really did not crank this,
seeing the true benefit of the grant until about six to eight months
after it started. Once it started, then we were able to hire those folks,
begin to draw down funds appropriately through the county, and we
now have a robust team out there that is seeing numerous people and
able to be flexible and transition even to benefit and help with
Hurricane Ian as they did.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Well, you made the comment
that you've been in -- this organization's been around in our county
for 40 years.
January 10, 2023
Page 51
MR. ULMER: Right, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So for 39 of those years, up until
the grant, what teams did we already have formed to carry out these
duties within our area of Collier -- Immokalee, which has been
around for 50 years?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: More than that.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: More than that, yeah, I was
going to say.
MR. ULMER: Well, Healthcare Network was founded in
Immokalee. It was a migrant farmworker, initially, health center.
And so as time has evolved, it has obviously grown exponentially.
This particular grant is a three-year grant, and I failed to mention
that to you. It is a three-year grant. So year one, I mentioned about
eight months to get started. We're now in year two. I believe that's
part of the discussion that, you know, we're sensitive to. We're very
sensitive to the constituents' concerns, and it's not something that we
take lightly.
And then the final year would be year three, which would not
start until around August 2023, that we would apply for that final
third year. But, again, if we meet the goals of this particular grant, it
would have provided access to the migrant farmwork community of
Immokalee, Everglades, Chokoloskee, some parts of Golden Gate
Estates, to potentially 75,000 residents who would not normally have
received that healthcare. This isn't specific to COVID healthcare.
This is healthcare, period.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Twice I've already -- I know our
attorney had mentioned that, you know, these things are in there.
Well, I can read it myself, you know, and then other people can read
it, too. And it says "the recipient is expected to provide." I mean,
that's pretty clear, you're expected to provide. And it continues on,
"with copies of any or access to COVID-19 data collected with the
January 10, 2023
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funds including, but not limited to, the data related to COVID
testing."
So I've been in the government -- my whole adult life I worked
in the government, you know, so I know the government doesn't
operate unless they have statistics.
MR. ULMER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And they don't operate a grant
and the value of that grant and the success of that grant without
collecting some sort of data. So I know myself would like to see at
least a blank template of what we are collecting, what we are sharing,
because I have to believe we're sharing something. I'm not sitting
here blindly and think we're not.
MR. ULMER: No, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Because the government would
not -- you know, the only reason they're giving us the grant is
because they want to see what they can collect statistically, and if the
grant -- I mean, I'm not saying in a negative way, but in a positive
way, so they can devise more grants in the future to help. But I
know for a fact they have to be collecting something.
MR. ULMER: Yes. The requirements of the grant, obviously,
stipulate that -- to reapply every year. So year one, we did what the
grant asked us to do. We hired the team, and we begin to canvass
the community for what resources they need.
Year two, we developed a plan, a program, a plan of attack, per
se. We did not add, obviously, emergency preparedness from a
hurricane standpoint like Hurricane Ian did, but we did -- we were
successful. We utilized the data that we had, some of which I quoted
off to you that -- of numbers that are far more even extensive to that,
that we provide back to the CDC for them to award us the final year,
which would not be until the next -- about approximately eight
months. So, yes, we do have to provide data.
January 10, 2023
Page 53
Again, you know, I didn't go into the specifics of the type of
data that we provide, but because we're a federally qualified health
center, we have to provide what's called a uniform data system, data
test annually. So every January we use our electronic medical
records to provide a whole host of amount of data to what is our
good, what is our impact, what are we providing for Collier County.
Every federally qualified health center across this entire country
has to provide that data. So, again, providing data is something
that's normal operations for us.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. I just don't want us to be
a catalyst moving forward in some point. I just want to see -- it
could be --
MR. ULMER: Sure.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- a blank template, whatever
you have. If you can redact whatever, if there are names on it,
because I don't want to violate anybody's HIPAA rights. And, you
know, that's what I'm concerned about, that we're, you know, in some
way, indirectly or directly, resolved in sharing this information with
people's names, illnesses and types like that, which would be a
HIPAA violation to their rights.
MR. ULMER: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So I don't know, and at this point
we're blind right now. We don't know if that is actually being shared
or not. And if it is, we're kind of responsible for that.
MR. ULMER: We -- so the data that we provide is public
information. There's nothing that Healthcare -- there's very little that
I can stand here today Healthcare Network does that is not public
information. Because we are a federal entity, as well as support the
state and the local community, everything pretty much we do is
public record. So I have no issues whatsoever to provide to you
what it looks like when we provide for meeting the requirements of
January 10, 2023
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the grant as far as data's concerned.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I appreciate that.
MR. ULMER: And you'll be able to see -- you may be able to
share, you know, how many people may have had a certain illness,
but there are no names whatsoever documented on any data points
that we placed. So some of the data that I read off to you today
doesn't give you the name of the actual patient who actually needed
or who actually had the test or who needed transportation or who
needed a referral. One hundred fifty social service referrals, we
don't ever provide the name. So, yes. But I'll get that to you, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I do appreciate it. And we
haven't had our meeting yet anyways.
MR. ULMER: You're right, right. I look forward to it.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall, and followed
by Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER HALL: The way I see this -- first of all,
Jamie, I appreciate the work that you've done reaching the
community. And so there's -- I see two ditches. One ditch being,
hey, if we don't get grants, we can't help the people. The other ditch
being, if we accept any money from the federal government, we're
under their tyranny; we're under their control. So to operate in the
middle and to operate in balance.
I can personally say if we took money from the federal
government and if we were under any guidance or directives that
were mandated to us, we would return that money in a heartbeat, and
I think I can speak for everyone.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER HALL: However, those guidance and those
directives have not been mandated or have not been sent down by us
receiving the money, but the potential is there. So I say, I appreciate
January 10, 2023
Page 55
being able to reach 75,000 people with this grant money, but at the
same time you've got to understand if and when we ever get a
directive that is opposing to our personal rights and our security,
we're going to send that money back -- or I'm going to fight to send
that money back.
MR. ULMER: Absolutely. Commissioner Hall, I'd like to say
that, you know, Healthcare Network -- not only Healthcare Network.
I have worked with FQHCs for the last close to 15 years from the
state of South Carolina to, obviously, Florida in multiple areas here in
the state of Florida, and I have yet to see where not only our health
center and the health centers I've worked at, but other federally
qualified health centers -- because I'm part of the Florida Association
of Community Health Centers of all 54 of us across the state, I have
yet to see where anyone ever had mandated. If we were not able to
fulfill what -- the requirements of the grant, we would either provide
the money back -- and I'm speaking for pretty much all health
centers -- or they would ask for the money back themselves. It's
pretty clear, if they give you $500,000 to build a new facility to
provide healthcare access and you don't do it, then the money has to
go back, because that was the requirement. And so I've not ever
seen that.
And I would also like to share this: There are grants that we do
not apply to because we do not like what the requirements state.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There you go.
MR. ULMER: And so when we see something that just doesn't
look right or we don't want to participate in, we don't participate in.
And that's where I mentioned that we're sensitive to what our
community, our patients, your constituents' feelings are.
And because we are, we kind of know what we would like to
feel like would be best for our patients and what we feel like, no,
that's probably not going to cut it for us.
January 10, 2023
Page 56
COMMISSIONER HALL: I appreciate that. You know, the
old scab of the government is pretty tender on the freedom-loving
people, and so that's what -- that's what the concern is. But I, you
know, while the getting's good, appreciate what you do, keep doing
it, but also know, for the others, if and when that ever comes, we've
got your back.
MR. ULMER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Jamie, if you could see my
notes up here, you'd know what the question is I'm going to ask, and
you've mentioned it multiple times, that you're a qualified federal
healthcare provider.
MR. ULMER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How -- why did Collier
County have to apply for this grant, name you as a sub-recipient, and
then a passthrough to Partners in Health? And would you explain
that chain of events as to why you didn't just go get the grant.
MR. ULMER: Yes. So oftentimes grants require
collaboration, particularly federal grants. They do not like when you
apply for a grant individually without identifying that your county,
your local Department of Health does not agree with it. And so,
typically, we'd like to see, with this particular grant, as the
county -- we do all the legwork. The county actually applies. It's
almost like our low-income pool funding that we receive from the
state that comes from the county, obviously, providing the match, and
thank you for that.
And so here's another example. The county -- we come in as a
sub-recipient because we have the people, obviously, the staffing, we
have the means to be able to carry out the requirements of the grant.
The Partners in Health is a global entity. We utilize them to do
training of the team. They don't have the resources, either, to
January 10, 2023
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actually go on the ground, knock on the doors, and see the people.
And so that's what brings them in to train our team to, how do you do
that? How do you knock on the door? How do you, in a
multicultural, multi-linguistic community reach to the people?
They're able to train us. And so that's kind of how the funds flow:
County to us, utilize with Partners in Health in training, we hire the
folks, we use it for whatever resources. We have two mobile units
that we utilize, and with those two mobile units, that's -- some of the
funding goes to helps maintain those mobile units to get out to those
far areas.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That was a really, really good
explanation.
And, Commissioner Cole, you brought up -- Kowal. Forgive
me -- Cole. Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Forgiven.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Forgiven.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You brought up when this
process started. This process started well in advance of -- the
relationship with Partners in Health started well in advance of when
this grant was applied for and received. Partners in -- we actually
had discontinued any kind of cooperative efforts with two other
medical facilities that were on the ground theoretically helping our
people and that were literally a menace to society at the same time.
And Partners in Health came in, provided promotoras, in
advance, started through that process, multilingual, and for -- and,
again, dispersing this information. And so it was going on in
advance of when this grant, in fact, came about.
They are a not-for-profit organization that needs funding in
order to supply these resources. And so the partnership with
Healthcare Network and, ultimately, with Collier County for them
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being the sub-recipients of this grant is the process that, in fact,
transpired. So -- and I just wanted -- in layman's terms if -- because
I share Commissioner Hall -- I think this whole Board's concern with
regard to some constitutional violation, if that were to come about
from the CDC or the HHS, what -- and we certainly wouldn't abide
by it -- what is the exposure for Collier County in the event that that
were to transpire?
MR. KLATZKOW: We would give the money back. I mean,
if the Board found something repugnant about what the federal
government was asking for, you could always give the money back.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. I'm complete.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We're going to go with
Commissioner Saunders, and then we're going to take a break. We
have 11 public speakers, so we'll take a break after Commissioner
Saunders and then go with the public speakers.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I wanted to thank you also for your service and the services that
you provide, the important services in the community.
MR. ULMER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think Commissioner Hall
really said it best in terms of -- and so have some of the other
commissioners, that if there are mandates that become unreasonable,
then we need to know what they are, and we need to return the
money. But I will say that I appreciate the community comments,
the folks that have come forward and raised this issue because, quite
frankly, we approved the grant. I was part of the group that
approved the grant back in 2021. I didn't feel that there were going
to be mandates that were objectionable, but it was very important for
the community and for folks that came here this morning and have
come here in the past to raise this issue so that we could evaluate it,
January 10, 2023
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because we wouldn't have had this discussion without that. So I
want to thank the community, the folks that have been here to bring
this issue up.
I agree 100 percent that if there is -- on this particular grant or
any grant, but we're dealing with this grant. If we received some
mandate, then we need to know what that mandate's going to be,
especially as it relates to some of the COVID-19 issues.
Commissioner Kowal certainly read through that, what those
requirements are that could be very objectionable. If at any point in
time the CDC or any federal agency requires us to start doing the
types of things that are listed there, then we need to know that
immediately. And if that is the case, I agree with Commissioner
Hall, the appropriate approach would be to refund that money,
because we're certainly not going to engage in activities that are
required by the federal government that we determine to be
unconstitutional, that we determine that to be inappropriate, that are
proved to be an invasion of our citizens' rights.
So I want to thank the folks that brought this forward, and I look
forward to the comments. But I think -- hopefully in terms of the
comments from the general public, that will be fairly muted in the
sense that we agree with you. We have 11 speakers, and I think 11
speakers are probably going to pretty much say the same thing, that
the money should be returned and that there are
objectionable -- objectionable requirements.
But I think the bottom line is, these are potential requirements.
They're not likely to be enforced. The money does a lot of good
unrelated to what those objectionable requirements might be. But if
that comes down, I agree with the other commissioners that I'll be
right with them to return that money.
MR. ULMER: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So thank you, Mr. Chairman.
January 10, 2023
Page 60
Thank you, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We're going to take a
break, and we will resume at 10:55.
(A brief recess was had from 10:39 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We're going to bring the
meeting back to order as scheduled here at 10:55. Just one
housekeeping announcement. Obviously, there's a lot of people here
from Isles of Capri. Just to let you know, as has always been part of
this agenda, that's going to be the last item we hear today. We're
going to give it the respect it deserves, not fragmented up in between
a bunch of different other topics.
There's a few other major things that have yet to be heard, so my
announcement to you is, I feel pretty certain we wouldn't hear the
Isles of Capri issue till after lunch. So you're welcome to stay, and
it's not -- I'm not making that announcement to chase anybody out,
but just to give you an idea of a timeline. If you're not following
along on the agenda, there's a couple of big items that have always
been on the agenda before Isles of Capri issues. So I just make that
announcement.
Now we'll continue. We've got all our commissioners back.
So, Mr. Miller, we've got 11 speakers or more?
MR. MILLER: That's correct, sir. I have 11 registered
speakers for this item. I'll remind the speakers, please queue up and
use both podiums.
Your first speaker is Richard Schroeder followed by Marie
Azger.
MS. ALGER: Alger.
MR. MILLER: Alger, I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Doctor.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Hey, Doc.
January 10, 2023
Page 61
DR. SCHROEDER: Thank you. Dr. Richard Schroeder,
retired medical doctor.
You know, advancing this accessible and equitable healthcare
systems and Extra Mile Migrant Farmworkers Community, what this
grant really means to the CDC and those other three-letter agencies
that are behind this, means that by accepting the grant with
stipulations attached, they must abide by the CDC recommendations.
And, you know, the CDC, in collusion with big pharma, is using this
as a manipulation to reach a population that might not have easy
access to the now proven toxic injections that have -- specifically, the
COVID-19 bio weapon that has led to increased death and disability,
that those with more resources naively avail themselves of right
away, including many in this room.
Between 78 and 92 percent of Americans took the first shot,
okay. Now the data are showing that only 18 percent of Americans
are signing up for the next booster, and there will continue to be
boosters and boosters and boosters. That, in itself, says a great deal
about how you should be thinking about CDC involvement in our
community at any level.
And, by the way, this initial naivety did not -- it's not just the
American people in general. It's the medical community in
particular. Ninety-eight percent of Canadian physicians took the
shot, and now, as a result, we have 60 dead Canadian physicians in
the prime of their lives and the prime of their career. That's just a
fact.
So I want to just respectfully comment on the County Attorney's
statement and recommendations. The statement doesn't make a lot
of sense for a number of reasons. The results and consequences of
any mandates or directives -- and by the way, these aren't probably
going to come in the form of mandates that we see like the last one
where we were all here with, you know, wondering what was going
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on with the masking and shutting down of businesses. They're going
to come in the form of recommendations. And as I told you, the
healthcare workers are not necessarily the best people to be able to
critically sort this out. They've been siloed all their careers. I can
attest to that. They want the easy button when it comes to something
that's not in their field, and we know the rest. So we've got to look at
the end user of this.
I bet those farmworkers would not vote to be injected with an
untested emergency use product that's been now shown not to protect
against the illness it was supposed to but really caused more deaths,
hospitalizations, and disabilities if you got vaccinated than if you
didn't. That's been shown in multiple countries.
So I think the CDC-directed healthcare is not the kind of
healthcare we want for our farmworkers to have any more than we
should want it for ourselves.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Marie Alger. She'll be
followed by Carol DiPaolo.
MS. ALGER: Hello, Marie Alger, Marco Island, Florida.
In order to achieve global communism, the following
components must be achieved. Destroy the patriarchal family,
which is the first building block of a civilized society. Government
has done that by removing the father from his primary role of
provider and protector of his family. Government created the
welfare state.
Number 2, destroy the moral authority of a church placing a
muzzle on its eternal truths and then making it too dependent on
government and NGO money when its pew is empty, when truth
stops being infused into the souls that are responsible for caring.
Number 3, infiltrate and capture government and its
January 10, 2023
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unconstitutional, unelected bureaucracies.
Number 4, capture military leadership.
Five, capture and control the means of mass communication.
Number 6, capture and control the education system,
indoctrinating Marxism, which is in direct opposition to Christianity.
Number 7, create a police state.
Number 8, invade the country with government-dependent,
un-assimilating, unaccountable masses.
Number 9, infiltrate and capture a bureaucratic healthcare
system based on political science.
The man-made COVID-19 event, which was completely
coordinated for weeks in advance at Event 21 [sic], this event,
coordinated October 18, 2019, was billed as a high-level pandemic
exercise by the John Hopkins Center for Health Security, the WEF,
the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. This exercise illustrated
areas where public and private partnerships will be necessary during
a response to a pandemic in order to diminish large-scale economic
and societal sequences.
What this event did was to build the world's cages to which we
would voluntarily enter. The captured media parroted the exact
same coordinated frightening messages. The media and its complicit
experts allowed for no dissent. Faith and reason were scorned and
eliminated. Livelihoods were destroyed. Only those deemed
essential workers were allowed limited freedoms.
School systems took draconian measures to isolate, muzzle, and
frighten students. Distrust of friends, family, and neighbors ensued,
breaking bonds of trust, pitting them against one another. Our
military and federal funded or licensed agencies did not allow for any
religious exemption, destroying the First Amendment with an
experimental injection.
As you can see, the global communism is being achieved. The
January 10, 2023
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only thing left is for us to say no. We will not comply with this
Godlessness.
I ask those that represent us here and now to return the money to
the CDC and never again take extortion money from any other
captured government agency which hands them the key to our
prebuilt hellish cages.
And my question -- well, my question is, do the multilingual,
multi-cultural workers provide informed consent? Because all the
injections administered via the pandemic were never given informed
consent with intentionally left blank inserts stating ingredients and its
side effects.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Carol DiPaolo. She'll be
followed by Scott Kiley.
MS. DiPAOLA: First of all, thank you, Commissioners, and I
wish you all the very best in this new year for the new ones that are
sitting in these seats. You know, I'm just going to just throw this
really all away. The whole crux of everything is what is the
information that is -- that is being given out about COVID to these
migrant workers? What is the substance of the information?
They're doing great work by doing blood pressure and doing glucose
and all of that. That's wonderful. That's great. I, you know,
condone that. I think that's fantastic.
What is the information about COVID? The mandates will
come as recommendations and not mandates. So that's No. 1.
Number 2, we saw what -- you know, in the past, you know, the
real science was, you know, wear masks. We know that that was not
true, did not work. You know, we were told, you know, stand six
feet apart. We know that that did not work, and that was not real
science. We were told that the money was going to be used to
inform people that, you know, there was no lifesaving treatments like
January 10, 2023
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ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine. Were they given that
information when they were given the grant money? You know, I
probably would say no.
Was the money used to encourage our people in Immokalee and
Golden Gate to take the safe and effective vaccine, which I'm going
to, from here on in, call the bio-weapon and injection. They should
be stopped. These COVID injections need to be stopped across the
board. You look at the NFL. They received money, grant money,
and they encouraged every single one of their players to take the
injections. And we saw on public stage what happened. You saw
that young man go down, and it wasn't from a hit in the chest. It was
from the injections.
Okay. I just returned from a health conference with some of the
most brilliant minds of our time, scientists and researchers who have
been sounding the alarm about the COVID injections, and nobody's
seems to be hearing them. They will be on the right side of history,
and I hope and pray all of you will be on the right side of history.
Eighty-seven percent of American citizens took at least one shot.
Today only 13 to 18 percent are receiving the boosters. Does that
tell you something? People are not trusting their supposedly safe
and effective vaccine. COVID community core money was
disseminated for one purpose, and that was to promote the COVID
vaccines. I told you about the NFL.
The mRNA causes 15,000 diseases; 91 of them are genetic.
There are mRNA in these shots.
Now, as far as reaching the community, was it successful, yes,
and I'll tell you a little bit what happened. We went to Immokalee.
There was a bus that we had wrapped that had said, please do not
give injections to your children. We went over to Immokalee at a
county fair. They were with all the immigrants. We had material
that was written in their language. We had people that spoke
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Spanish. Do you know not one of them wanted to even know what
we had to say. So I have to tell you that that money that was given
to our county did the job, did the job, because they did not want to
receive accurate information that probably would have caused them
to think, to critically think about should I take this. Is it safe and
effective? So that money really did do -- it was very successful,
very successful in reaching this population. And I say now, give the
money back. We don't need it. We didn't have it before. We don't
need it now.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Scott Kiley. He'll be
followed by Jill Kiley.
MR. KILEY: Good morning, Commissioners. Thanks for
allowing me time to speak on this critical issue. My name is Scott
Kiley. I am a full-time resident of Marco Island. Today we debate
whether or not the CDC and their appointed subcontractors can help
migrant farmworkers here in Collier County with their COVID-19
health response advice. Let's discuss recent CDC performance.
Number 1, the CDC told us, get the vaccine, and you will not get
infected. You will not transmit the virus. Well, this was a blatant
lie. Will the educators share this deceit with the migrant workers?
Number 2, when frontline doctors actually treating patients
discovered therapeutics that work, right, those drugs were taken
away, and doctors were threatened with loss of their license.
Patients untreated were left to die. Will the CDC and Partners for
Health inform the migrant workers of available effective
therapeutics?
Number 3, the CDC voted unanimously to add this injection,
still experimental, to the childhood annual schedule. This is insane.
It has never been placebo tested, and the children are said to have
zero risk of dying. Will Partners for Health be telling migrant
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workers, the mothers, to rush their children in for a free experimental
injection, maybe with a doughnut or a Happy Meal? What does our
great governor and surgeon general have to say about injecting
children?
Number 4, they're still saying it is safe for pregnant women to
get this injection. Women of America, please wake up. Visit
dailyclout.io and learn about the baby die-off going on on a global
basis. Learn about the sudden surge in miscarriage, learn about
extreme menstrual irregularities women are facing postvaccination.
All of this is highly censored. Will this be shared with the migrant
workers? I could go on for hours.
In closing, every time that we give up authority to unelected
federal agencies such as the FDA, the CDC, the HHS, we give away
our freedom.
Prior speaker Jamie, COVID-19 atrocities are not in the
rearview mirror. We have a three-year mess to clean up. Let's not
make it worse. Boilerplate language can be enforced. This
language stinks. It gives away our healthcare freedom forever to the
HHS. Let's get back to the business of ending censorship once and
for all so we can get the truth out to the public. Let's restore
informed consent. Let's allow doctors to practice without fear of
reprisal or persecution.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jill Kiley. She'll be
followed by Joseph Alger.
MS. KILEY: Good morning. Happy New Year,
Commissioners. My name is Jill Kiley, and I'm a full-time resident
of Marco Island.
On December 13th, many public speakers spoke out against the
grant money that Collier County received from the HHS and
questioned whether it was in the best interest of the citizens of Collier
January 10, 2023
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County.
Since Partners in Health is the sub-awardee responsible for
training, I got curious, and I started a web search to determine what
their COVID-19 training looks like. Although they do not share
their COVID-19 prevention protocols on their website, they do share
the names of their partners and donors. Of special interest were the
Bill and Linda Gates Foundation; Open Society Foundation, a/k/a
George Soros; Pfizer; CDC; the U.S. Department of State; the
W.H.O. Yeah, you heard that right, the W.H.O.; many of the top
research hospitals and universities that also receive federal monies
and are still mandating the injections for their students to attend their
university; all of the major pharmaceutical companies, including the
ones that pay millions of dollars each year in settlements for fraud;
Google; Apple; Microsoft; Walt Disney; and many, many more.
Conflict of interest? You tell me. Do we know Partners in
Health? Do we trust that they will be educating our friends,
neighbors, and families of Collier County with the most up-to-date
COVID-19 protocols? Can we trust they will be informing our
citizens without bias and with informed consent, including potential
adverse events, or are they beholden to their donors and partners?
This is not about who is liable and did we kick the can down the
road far enough for Collier County to escape liability. Knowing our
subcontractor and the information they are teaching our citizens is not
just a procedural responsibility of this board. It is a moral and
ethical responsibility.
As Commissioner McDaniel stated in December, oftentimes
when you take federal money, there are strings attached. Give the
money back.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Joseph Alger. He'll be
followed by Scott Sherman.
January 10, 2023
Page 69
MR. ALGER: Thank you. I'm reminded of what COVID
looks likes in the rearview mirror. It is a mask from last time.
I love when Jamie -- with all due respect to Jamie, he stands up
there, and he's a federal employee and talking about military service
and everything else. I'm in -- I was in the military, too, but one thing
Jamie forgot to mention was now our military has to be vaxxed,
every single one of them, and it's caused nothing but disruption
within the military.
I love when we get -- our lawyer talks about, well, you want
your taxes to be raised if [sic] this $423,000 grant money, as if grant
money is kind of like from a tree. We pay for that. That's our tax
money. It's not free money. Grant money is tax money taken from
us. So it's not like from a tree that comes up so it's free.
And I think the point made here was that this $423,000, one year
of which has already been spent, is a small portion of it, we would be
led to believe, goes to COVID, I guess, is what the gentleman was
trying to make. But to another point that was made, when I went out
to Immokalee and we were trying to educate the locals, it seems to
me like an exorbitant amount of minorities were wrapped up in
masks no matter what. Even though the masking thing had long
since sailed, I still, to this day, see an exorbitant amount of minorities
walking around with masks, and the other thing is that it was true,
none of them wanted to listen to the facts of not getting vaxxed.
That was almost -- I kept thinking, where are they getting their
information? Even CNN couldn't get you this scared. Well, when I
hear Jamie talk about education, I guess that's -- I mean, to me, a
lightbulb went off. So it looks to me like there's a lot going on, a lot
of education, and it's not -- I don't think it's good.
I also listened to terms like robust data access, and then we get
acronyms thrown out there. I mean, you get one federal employee
standing up here, and we're going to say -- and the other thing is,
January 10, 2023
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where did this guy come from? He took up a half hour of our time
doing most -- it was a sales pitch. We've got to sit here and listen to
a sales pitch. And you guys -- I mean, I like you guys, and thank
you for being here, but you're only here because we pitched a little
pushback; that's why you're here. Otherwise, you're going to slip
this thing through today. It was going to go through, and we weren't
going to have this discussion.
I'm really disappointed in you guys. I thought we were going to
do better. I really thought we were going to do better. These
people that came up before me are a lot more qualified, but you didn't
listen to any of them. There was no listening until we pushed back,
and I think it was last night; that's the reason we're here. None of
you guys were listening to these qualified people, yet here we are
today.
I don't know, I'm just disappointed, and I want that money sent
back. I don't care if it's 400 million. I don't care if it's 4 -- $4. It's
still taxpayer money. I don't want it. I don't want it. Yeah, raise
my taxes. Raise my taxes. Give me -- I'll take the 423- -- I'm sure
we'd all pitch in.
Thanks.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Scott Sherman. He will
be followed by Beth Sherman.
MR. SHERMAN: Thank you, Commissioners. I do
appreciate you guys moving this item to where we could talk about it
today.
Our issue with the CDC is not that they're tracking or that there
might be some rules and regulations. It's that they're giving bad
medical advice. I mean, if we look at some of the historical advice
they've been giving, it's really bad.
Let's start with the -- they suppressed treatments that were
proven to work. In 2018, ivermectin was hailed as a miracle drug.
January 10, 2023
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In 2020, they were ridiculing it as a horse paced. Other drugs that
were very effective for years, like hydroxychloroquine and chlorine
dioxide, were also banned and ridiculed. Why? It was because
they -- if there are effective treatments, the emergency use
authorization for the experimental mRNA technology, a/k/a the
bio-weapon, would not have been approved. These vaccines have
been proven to not stop infection or transmission, and they're now
being shown to be harmful. Young males show an 84 percent
increase in heart-related deaths. Sudden death of athletes has
increased 1,700 percent since the vaccine roll-out. Miscarriages are
up 4,100 percent since the -- in the past two years. We cannot as a
society continue ignoring these statistics.
Some other things that they recommend, one of my favorites is
the sneeze cover. Before when you coughed or sneezed, you put
your hands up here, you covered it, and then you went and washed
your hands, right? And now they say, oh, you cough into your
elbow, right? How often do you wash your elbow? I mean, when
you shower, probably. And then what do they say to do when you
meet someone instead of shaking their hands? You bump elbows.
Now, how stupid is that? You sneeze into your elbow, you never
wash it, and then you bump -- they're trying to spread this virus. I
mean, come on, people.
So we don't like the CDC, and we don't want to follow their
advice. We do not want to be giving the migrants in Immokalee bad
medical advice. Actually, dangerous medical advice, I would say.
So another thing I'd like to point out is the young man that gave
the presentation here for 30 minutes didn't say, really, what they were
doing with the COVID money. He said they were treating heart
disease, they were treating diabetes, they were, you know, doing
blood pressure medication. And he also said later that if the
government gives you a grant to build a house and you don't build a
January 10, 2023
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house, you have to give the money back. So, clearly, on the record
at this meeting he's not -- he's saying they're using that money for
other things than COVID so, therefore, you have to give the money
back. And we really do want you to just give that money back. We
want you to fund the healthcare in our county, with our county, with
no strings attached so they're giving good medical advice, and real
doctors are giving real advice.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Beth Sherman. She'll be
followed by Greg Lynch. Ms. Sherman has been ceded three
additional minutes from Joe Maines.
Mr. Maines, are you here in the room?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you. Ms. Sherman, you'll have six
minutes.
MS. SHERMAN: Hello, thank you. This lovely lady here is
going to put something on the screen, and this is what is on the
agenda for today and what was on the agenda 9/13 of last year when
it came up. You can see here clearly that it states, Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention. There's been a lot of pushback on
you guys, which I highly appreciate from people and encourage more
people to do that.
But as you can see today, that was conveniently removed which
when you -- you know, you pull up a schedule, and you're looking to
see what's going on. I would have no idea if I wasn't actively
looking for that. So I find that to be completely misleading and
inappropriate.
A comment to the County Attorney: You said if they asked us
anything repugnant to do that we would not do it.
So I want to read a response from Commissioner McDaniel's
executive coordinator Cristina Tiberia. Now, this is just an excerpt
January 10, 2023
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from this, but it is part of an executive summary that she sent out to
anyone that had asked questions regarding this matter, and it says that
you guys agree as applicable to, No. 1, comply with existing and/or
future directives and guidance from the Secretary regarding control
of the spread of COVID-19.
Number 2, in consultation and coordination with HHS, provide
commensurate with condition of the individual COVID-19 patient
care regardless of the individual's home jurisdiction and/or
appropriate public health measures. Example, social distancing and
home isolation.
And, No. 3, assist the United States government in the
implementation and enforcement of federal orders related to
quarantine and isolation. Sir, that is repugnant. That is the epitome
of repugnant.
Now, I would also like to point out that we were the only county
in the entire state of Florida to do this. Why is that? I find it -- you
know, Commissioner LoCastro, I emailed you guys, and I am an
equal opportunity offender, of course. So, you know, if you do
something great, great. If you do something wrong, I'm going to
point it out.
At the last meeting, you did not believe that we were the only
county in Florida to take this grant, so you called on your assistant at
break to do some research, which I highly appreciate. But if you had
taken the time to read the dozen-plus emails that we had sent you on
this matter with links and pertinent information, including that we
were the only county in Florida to accept that, you would already
know that. You guys are not doing your research. You're not even
listening to the people who are not just standing up here but are
sending emails.
We spent a lot of time researching that and specifics. You
chose to ignore it. Now, I will give a kudos to you, Mr. Saunders,
January 10, 2023
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because at that meeting on 9/13 you did listen -- you did not respond
to the emails, but I appreciate the fact that you did bring up that there
were some concerns, and you asked for -- I'm not sure who the
woman was who did the presentation on it, but she came out and she
presented what this was all about. None of this was listed in there.
It was a top line, skim over the top, nothing to see here, sweep it
under the rug. So whoever that woman was and whoever is helping
you guys do your research, they're not doing their jobs. But the
reality is, it's not their job. It's your jobs. We do not elect you to
have your assistant do your research matters, especially in matters of
public health. I find that also repugnant; I would like to reuse the
term that the County Attorney used.
I would also like to mention, some others have mentioned,
Mr. Jamie, I don't recall his last name, the gentleman who spoke for
30 minutes on this, he circled every single question that he was given.
He wasted our time. He had none of this information.
I personally have been media trained by the Centers for Disease
Control, and that's the number-one tactic that they teach you to do.
That's what the media does. When you don't want to answer a
question, you just circle around it and circle around it until people get
so confused that they don't remember what you asked them.
So I mean, I think you really need to look into who comes up
here to speak as your authority, because that guy is not an authority,
and he did not present us with any information that we asked for.
Next, we are the 14th wealthiest county in the entire country.
Why on earth do we need to take a grant for this? You have plenty
of money. We want the money sent back. We want it sent back
today.
Mr. Hall, you were saying, you know, oh, well, if this happens
or if that happens, we'll send it back. No, we want it sent back
today. The will of the people is what you are up here to do. And
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for the past two years -- I'll leave the two out who are the new
commissioners -- but the other three of you, you have not been doing
the will of the people, because I personally, along with dozens and
dozens of other people, have been up here month after month telling
you this information. When we went on break, I had multiple people
come talk to me and thank me for telling this information about the
vaccine. One gentleman said that him and his wife, after they got
the booster, got myocarditis and that they had no idea that that was
even a risk.
Several other speakers mentioned informed consent. I want to
repeat what I said in my last -- under general comments, and that is
that informed consent requirements were waived so that subjects
don't have to be informed what is going on. It is deemed -- it is
deemed not in their best interest. That's from our Department of
Defense through FOIA requests. This should be extremely
concerning, and you should send the money back immediately.
I also ask that anyone who's listening, I pray that you will heal.
I pray that if you took this vaccine and you listened to the authorities,
that you find God, because God is the only one who will heal you,
and he will with just a blink of an eye.
If you are prepared to come forward and talk at these meetings
or sign an affidavit, I will be making a list if you come to Seed to
Table on Tuesdays at 7:00 p.m. for the Man in the Arena show, and
we will start showing that the side effects are affecting this
community.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Greg Lynch. He'll be
followed by Kathy Meo.
MR. LYNCH: Yes. Hi, there. Greg Lynch, long-term
resident of Collier County.
Naples, we have a problem, and the problem is there is an
January 10, 2023
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animal in the room whose color is pink and is also known as the pink
elephant. Okay.
We can all see it. There's a pink elephant in the room. We can
all see it. Pink elephant in the room. What does this mean? This
means that from one -- from the beginning of COVID till today,
one million to three million souls have died, okay. Let me repeat
that. From the beginning to today, one million to three million
people have died. Now, you're not going to get that answer through
your federal authorities. You're going to get it from the outside
people.
So I just thought I would share the little elephant with you.
People are dying. That's why we want you to cancel this contract
with the CDC. Cancel it. Money returned. If not, money in
escrow. And we can await the grand jury decision that's going to be
coming out of Tampa.
Our Governor DeSantis has accused these people of lying, lying,
thus we have the grand jury in Tampa. What's going to happen out
of that? I don't know. But based on that alone, you look at the
agreement with the CDC and Partners in Health, case closed. Put
the money in escrow. Put it to the side. End it now. No more jabs.
No more -- you're talking the last mile, well, the last time they had an
event, it was on Tamiami Trail a couple miles south of Pine Ridge.
That ain't the last mile. That's intercity Naples. I was there.
So, anyway, please do your research. Let's get rid of this
contract, $300,000 -- excuse me -- $400,000 for the three years. My
math is a million two. We're in the middle of year two. Let's end it
now. Put the money in escrow. Let's keep our eyes on the grand
jury coming out of Tampa. And DeSantis didn't start this for
nothing. He knows something's going on.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Kathy Meo. She'll be followed by Michele
January 10, 2023
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Kelly.
MS. MEO: Good morning, Commissioners. Kathy Meo,
Naples. Again, congratulations to the new commissioners.
And I do have a lot of faith in this full board, not so much in the
last or at least a couple of them, but I'm glad we have what we have.
And I do trust that you will do the right thing. I have a lot of faith in
you.
So as many of you know, I'm secretary of the CCREC. And I
said it last night, I've never been so proud to be a Collier County
resident and Republican.
And I just want to say regarding this subject that if there's any
possible strings that could ever be brought up now or in the future,
you just have to give the money back, okay. So in speaking to what
County Attorney said, his first thing was, oh, well, you know, it's not
a simple grant. I've been doing this for 20 years. We've been
getting grants for 20 years, and nothing's ever happened. Yeah.
Well, we're in a whole new world now, okay.
We know what these three-letter agencies have done to us. We
know that they -- who would have said 20 years ago that they would
have raided a former president's residence, okay, and go through his
wife's underwear drawer? All right.
So we're -- you can't compare now to 40 years they've been
doing this with Partners in Health or 20 years ago that we've never
had imagined. You know, there's monsters in the closet. Just forget
about all that, because we have to deal with what we have in hand.
We never would have thought 20 years ago that employers would
have forced their employees in order to make a living and keep their
job to get this emergency use vaccine, which is nothing more than
poison.
And you know that my son is a staff sergeant in the army. He's
serving in Korea, which is dangerous enough, but he was forced to
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get this jab. And he is between the ages of 18 and 39. He's 23
years old. So, you know, I pray every day for my son and the whole
military and everyone who was forced to get this shot. You see
them dropping like flies. It's just -- it's heartbreaking.
So Dr. Lapado, as Beth mentioned earlier, he's advised against
the 18- to 39-year-old getting this shot, and with the workers out
there, they don't know. They don't know what they're being given.
They need to be informed. They need to be informed what
they've -- they need to go back and talk to them and let them know
what they have taken, because they don't know. They listen to the
media. They trust. And, you know, so many people -- like you
said, 87 percent of the country has gotten this shot trusting the
government. Well, I'm sorry. Instead of for the people, right now
they're against the people for most of it.
And so I'm just asking you to do the right thing, and I thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your final speaker on this item is Michele
Kelly.
MS. KELLY: Good morning. My name is Michele Kelly. I
live here in Naples.
And I'm listening to everybody, and it seems to me if I took a
poll and asked who trusted the CDC, not one person would raise their
hand. I certainly wouldn't. I've watched the CDC lie to the
American people. I've seen them harm children with the vaccine
plan that they have for children, starting with birth and hep B shot for
a newborn baby is ludicrous.
So as far as -- and then also, as far as the last commissioners,
there was some push to insist upon the masks, and I couldn't
understand it. I mean, they don't work. The CDC came out and
eventually said it didn't work but, yet, the people on the
commissioner panel stated that we will continue with the mandate.
There had to be a reason for it and, oh, my gosh, it must have been
January 10, 2023
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money.
So there's -- you go to there is no free lunch ever. You take
money, you owe somebody something, and we all know that. I'm a
baby boomer. I grew up with that. So as far as trusting people that
want to give you something for free, it doesn't sit well with me.
And the past -- the future proves the past as far as these shots.
We have watched the vaccine program for children damage children
for years. Autism is at one in 33. Who decided to do -- it must
have been the CDC that insisted upon that, and not one trial for that.
Not one. Oh, no, no, no, there was. Dr. Thompson had a trial, and
he said, I've got this trial. There's all these little black children that
are getting autism. And you know what the CDC said, throw it in
the garbage. So there was one, but he got rid of it.
I didn't even know that there was 421,000 in the balance or
1.2 million. That's the price of a regular house now here in Collier
County. So the taxes alone can cover the 1.2 million that you think
is going to benefit Immokalee. I'm sorry, I didn't know about
Immokalee.
Here's the other thing. Look at what you're not hearing.
You're not hearing that the reason they want to jab the migrant
workers is so they'll be incapacitated, and they won't be able to work
in the fields, and that will be the end of our produce.
So that's the endgame for this CDC gift. And I think everybody
might want to consider that. It's what they're not saying. It's not
they're going to protect the people in Immokalee. They're going to
make sure that they're incapacitated so that our food shelves will have
less and less food, and that's the problem.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: That was your final speaker, Mr. Chairman.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: County Manager, what's the
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endgame here? So, I mean, it's on the agenda. We pulled it.
We've heard from all the citizens. And I don't know if the
commissioners -- I don't see anybody lit up here. This isn't
something we're -- are we taking a motion? Are we voting on
something? I don't believe so.
MS. PATTERSON: No, sir. This was just an informational
report to the Board.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Any of my fellow commissioners
have comment or -- I don't see anything lit up, but -- Chairman
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Past Chair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Or past Chair, yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My suggestion is -- we asked
some questions of the director of the Healthcare Network to provide
us with more information as to what, in fact, was being disseminated
during that period of time. And I -- from a -- from a risk-reward
standpoint, I concur with my colleagues who spoke up that in the
event that some repugnant mandate comes from the federal
government, that we certainly wouldn't abide by it. But I think the
greater good being served, we should move forward, get that
information, find out, and then make a decision, maybe have another
hearing, have another discussion with regard once that information's
actually brought. I'd like to see that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall, and then,
Commissioner Kowal, you're next.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So a good point was made that is
an assumption, and I feel like it's a pretty good assumption about bad
health information being pushed in a narrative from the CDC or from
the HHS.
I agree with Commissioner McDaniel, I'd like to verify that.
And if that's verified, I would be all about sending the money back
January 10, 2023
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immediately. And whatever procedure we have to do that. Do we
have to wait till another meeting? Can we call it -- I don't know
what to do. I've never been here. I just -- it aggravates me.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I just -- I just want to make some comments to make sure it's on
record. You know, we were all here, and we heard, and I asked a
few questions of the gentleman that was presented to us from the
government to speak, and one that stuck out -- and I asked the
question -- you know, he made the comment that this -- you know,
we've had people on the ground in Immokalee for 40 years, and I
asked the question, well, did we have teams helping people for 39
years before the grant? And we all heard -- we really didn't get an
answer. I didn't get an answer. And, you know, I know our Health
Department here in the county and I know our state Health
Department has been in Immokalee for years. We've not neglected
these people in the Farmworker Villages. They've had access. You
can go to Building H right now when you leave here, you won't get
through the lobby. There will be people there waiting for healthcare
from the county healthcare department, okay.
And like you said, 400-and-some thousand dollars. Listen,
COVID's behind us. Every day -- every day we exist, COVID gets
weaker. Every day somebody beats COVID, your natural
immunities destroy it. It's not going to -- we're behind us. And
whatever they did for that first year, for those six months after they
up and running, I don't know if the cost-to-value to what they did or
didn't do was worth the money.
But I would like to definitely know, and I'm going to go on
record saying, that if we do find out that Pfizer -- because evidently
Pfizer is one of the donors to one of these organizations, and Pfizer
realizes only 13 percent is buying their drugs anymore -- and it's not
January 10, 2023
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their drug. It's our tax dollars that the federal government gives
Pfizer to give you a free shot.
So there's nothing free in this whole compilation of everything
we heard, and we're already paying for it. And if Pfizer is seeing
their dollar signs going down because they're not giving these shots
out and we find out the whole hidden truth behind this with the CDC
is to push the shot on these people that they feel may not fight back,
then I definitely will be the first one to give this money back. So I
just want to let everybody know that.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I think the appropriate approach for us at this point is there are
some legitimate questions concerning information provided to
farmworkers and others that are receiving these services that are
being paid for with this grant, so I think it's appropriate.
Commissioner Hall had mentioned getting some more
information. We don't have to take any specific action today.
We're not being asked to approve -- we have a staff report right now.
We have two choices today. We could move this along and get
more information, or we can demand staff to return the money
immediately.
I think the best approach is to get answers to Commissioner
Hall's question. What type of information really is being provided.
I don't know how staff can go about getting that. I think contacting
our sub-grant recipient to really get some detailed information about
the information that's being provided. And if we determine that
there are misleading comments being made or information given to
individuals that are receiving the healthcare benefits, then I think we
need to take some action, and I think that's what Commissioner Hall
has suggested, and I think that's 100 percent correct.
January 10, 2023
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From what we've been told this morning, those grant proceeds
are being used for a legitimate and a good purpose, and that is to
provide healthcare to not just migrant workers. It's not just people
that are working in the farm fields. It's anyone who has no real
access to healthcare in Golden Gate Estates, in Immokalee, and in
Everglades City. I think that that's a legitimate goal is to provide
healthcare. I think that everyone would agree that we have to
provide those preventative care types of things. But if there is
misinformation that's being spread out, then we need to know that,
and we need to take some action. So that's -- I would follow
Commissioner Hall on that.
I will say that one of the speakers had indicated that they had
sent me emails back in September. I had -- unfortunately, my
legislative -- my assistant passed away at that time frame, and so we
may have missed some emails, but I make a point of responding to
everything. But we had some unusual circumstances. I'm not
trying to make an excuse, but maybe that's a bit of an explanation.
So if someone has written me and I've not responded, send me
another one, and we'll make sure you get a response.
But I agree with Commissioner Hall that we need more
information and, simply -- I think we should simply direct staff to
explore this and come back to us at some point, because we don't
have a mandate right now that is causing a problem, but we could in
the future.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second. Do you want to
make that as a motion?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. I'll make that as a
motion. The motion is to direct staff to explore fully the type of
information that's being provided to make sure that we're not
misleading people or trying to persuade people to take a vaccine that
has some questionable success, and to bring that back in a reasonable
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period of time. Staff is very busy. And I say a "reasonable period
of time" because we are -- we're not in a situation where something
right now is happening with that grant money that's causing a
problem, but that would be the motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We've had a motion. It's
been seconded. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. It passes unanimously.
I want to make -- just make a closing comment on this particular
issue. First of all, I want to thank the citizens that have come
forward. I know that a lot of strong words were thrown around, but
this is how the process works. So to those of you that followed the
agenda, we're all human up here. So nobody's sitting here trying to
do something, you know, under the table, and if you think that it is,
this is America. This is how it works.
So the same way that, you know, you've thrown some things
toward us, I think what we're saying to you is, thank you for taking a
look at the agenda, thank you for reaching out to your elected
officials. That's how our process works here in the United States of
America. So I don't think anybody should chastise anyone that's up
here or in the audience or likewise. This is -- this was a success
today.
I'd like to see this come back sooner than later. I don't think
we're launching the space shuttle here or building the Empire State
January 10, 2023
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Building. This is obviously a, you know, hot topic. I think if we've
had this money for this long, I know that a few people have said send
it back immediately. We're not being mandated to do anything, but
there's a few other -- quite a few other things that are of concern.
So what I would just tell the folks in the audience here is this
isn't something we're going to shelf or kick down the road. So stay
tuned. We will get with staff. I think at our next meeting we
should be able to have something. Is it going to come to a vote or
are we going to make a decision? Nobody's knows that right now
because we have a lot of unanswered questions. But, you know, I'll
work very closely, as we all will, with the County Manager and, you
know, keep an eye on the agenda. Stay in contact with us, and thank
you for, you know, coming here with your information and your
concerns, because we welcome it.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, and then
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I don't need you to come
to the podium. But, Mr. Kiley, you were communicating with me
quite a bit a year or so ago with regard to some of the released data
that was forced upon Pfizer. I'd like an update on that, if you could,
please.
MR. KILEY: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I want to
respectfully disagree with one of the comments that you made that
you'd like to have this at the next meeting.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Because I'm sure right now
staff is already in the process of preparing the agenda for the next
meeting, and to ask them to begin the process of getting this
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information, I don't think we'll get an accurate, full assessment if we
rush it that much. So I would say, you know, perhaps we can hear it
at our second meeting in February. Again, it's not an emergency,
but --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I think -- I will just clarify and see
if it has your support, that it's at least a line item on the next agenda.
It doesn't mean we vote. It doesn't mean -- I mean, the line item
could be, staff is doing a deep dive and still has -- you know, just like
we do with the rock crushing lot. You know, we have it on the
agenda, sometimes we get a full presentation, sometimes we don't.
What are your thoughts on that, just at least having it as a subject?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Certainly, we can do that,
but that's going to mean that a whole lot of people are going to come,
and we may wind up saying we don't have enough information. I
just want to give staff enough time to do the right job.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: First of all, the folks that are out
here, they come regardless.
Thoughts? Thoughts? We're having communication up here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My thought is as soon as
possible. If we set a time-certain, that puts -- I mean, I specifically
asked Jamie the questions that I need to hear with regard to what was
being disseminated.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I don't -- that's not brain
surgery. There was information that was being put out, so they
should be able to ascertain that in a fairly quick manner, and --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We'll wait to hear back from the
County Manager. Why don't you give us your thoughts, you know,
at a reasonable time prior to the next meeting, and if it looks like the
next meeting is not going to be -- we're not going to have the data
then, obviously, we don't want to waste everybody's time. But I
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think this is something that's obviously a hot topic.
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioner Saunders is correct, we are
in the process of preparing -- as we're in this meeting, we're preparing
for the next meeting. So it would -- it is a rush to get it onto the next
meeting. We'll do everything we can to expedite. This is not
something that's going to drag out, but I would anticipate that
February is a more realistic time frame so that we're sure that we can
also look at those comments brought up by the citizens and also -- by
the residents and also be able to talk with the Partners for the parts
that they're responsible for.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. One thing I wanted to
clarify -- and there's some people up here that obviously have
more -- a longer relationship with the Healthcare Network. I think
there was someone that came to the podium and thought the
gentleman that came here who is the CEO of the Healthcare Network
somehow is -- works in Washington, D.C., and he's -- you know, he's
a government employee. He's the new CEO of our local Healthcare
Network here. I don't know if -- Commissioner McDaniel, if you
wanted to expand upon that a little bit, because I know you've had a
lot of depth with them. And your district certainly is a big recipient
of this grant money and, most importantly, a lot of the work that the
Healthcare Network does. So if you want to just clarify for the
record.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: For the record, he's not a
federal employee. He is the administrator, executive director of the
Healthcare Network, which is a federally approved healthcare
provider. So he's -- that's what he is. He's not a federal employee.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely. I just wanted to get
that on there.
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Lastly, everybody that spoke, we're
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listening, and just grant us a little bit of patience. I would love to
make a decision, but I don't want to make a decision based on an
assumption. Even though I think that assumption is going to prove
true, we want to prove it. So just be patient with it, and we're
listening.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well said. Well said.
MS. BURSKI: Tell us what information you need; we'll send
it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. County Manager, next
topic is 9C, I believe.
Item #9C
ORDINANCE 2023-01: AN ORDINANCE REPEALING
ORDINANCE NO. 22-43, WHICH REQUIRES RESIDENTIAL
LANDLORDS TO PROVIDE 60 DAYS WRITTEN NOTICE OF A
RENTAL INCREASE OVER 5% TO TENANTS WITH LEASES
OF ONE YEAR OR LONGER - MOTION TO APPROVED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL: SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
KOWAL - ADOPTED (COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS
OPPOSED)
MS. PATTERSON: Yes. We are on 9C. This is a
recommendation to consider an ordinance repealing Ordinance
No. 22-43 which requires residential landlords to provide 60 days
written notice of a rental increase over 5 percent to tenants with
leases of one year or longer.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Do we have anyone from
the -- do we have any public comments on this, I would say first?
MR. MILLER: Yes, we do, Mr. Chairman. We have, I think
it's nine.
January 10, 2023
Page 89
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Do we want to go with the
public comment first?
MS. PATTERSON: At your pleasure, Chair. This has been
discussed a number of times by the Board. It was brought the last
meeting by Commissioner Hall as a reconsideration or a -- to get it to
this point. We are here now at the point of being an advertised
public hearing. But if it's your pleasure, we hear the speakers first.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall, I would start
with you. Do you have any opening comment or anything that you
wanted to say to present this?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Oh, we can hear the public, and
then we can discuss it and vote.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Mr. Miller, let's go to the
public comments.
MR. MILLER: Sure. Your first speaker is Jackie Keay.
She'll be followed by Todd Brooks. Jackie's been ceded three
additional minutes from Daniel Zegarac.
MS. KEAY: He had an appointment.
MR. MILLER: Yeah, he had a medical appointment. So
Jackie will have three minutes, and she'll be followed by Todd
Brooks.
MS. KEAY: Thank you. So, Commissioners and all local
officials are elected to serve all members of the community equally.
They took an oath on the Bible to uphold the Constitution, which is
the extreme law of the land, and the Florida Constitution. Along
with the U.S. Constitution, the Florida state constitution guarantees
equal civil and political rights to all.
It is abundantly clear that in the free state of Florida many
elected officials are guilty of constitutional bad faith as they violate
both constitutions through abuse of power as well as function.
Instead of securing our rights, you-all are systematically violating
January 10, 2023
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them.
Leaders act in bad faith when they participate in the following
acts: They have hidden unrevealed agendas, are insincere and
inauthentic, deception to conceal or obscure material facts.
Unfaithful to legal responsibilities, a malicious purpose, unfair or
unreasonable conduct, and acts of sabotage i.e., blocking affordable
housing.
Feigned ignorance, the intention to dominate or coerce
compliance, lack of respect for the rights of others, and the
expectations that others must bend to their will. Here is what David
Pozen, Columbia law school professor said -- says about the
constitutional bad faith. Constitutional bad faith, like all bad faith, is
strongly linked to dishonesty and insincerity. Perhaps the most
straightforward type of constitutional bad faith and the one courts
have been most willing to tackle includes, one, facially neutral
government actions that are in bad -- in fact, based on illegitimate
motives and purposes. The framing of these action [sic] masks their
true character.
Repealing the 60-day ordinance is an act of corruption, bad
faith, and constitutional bad faith. It demonstrates beyond a shadow
of a doubt that some of our commissioners are in it for themselves,
their donors, special interest groups, and like-minded supporters. It
also shows that they do not give a damn about our workforce, local
businesses, and sustaining our community. If you recall from the
last meeting it was you, Commissioner McDaniel, that said Danielle
Hudson of NABOR, who represents the landlords, agreed that the
60-day ordinance should be repealed.
Not only is that showing collusion, I feel, on the side of some of
the commissioners to repeal this, because it takes you all agreeing to
do so, but it also shows that you are colluding with special interest
groups to do so.
January 10, 2023
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So in that way, you are intentionally harming our community by
denying us the address of this. And we talk about hot-button topics.
This is a hot-button topic but, yet, it's not important enough for
you-all to consider it.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Todd Brooks. He'll be
followed by Elizabeth Radi.
MR. BROOKS: Hello. Thank you very much for your time.
I got up this morning, and I was watching the news, and that's
the one reason I'm here. I saw it pop up here this morning. I'm a
local business owner here. We have struggled the last two or three
years with employment. One of the biggest things is housing, and
I'm sure you already know that.
I'm not a landlord, so I don't know the other side of it. I just
know my side of it. We have literally spent a lot of time and a lot of
money, and I have to actually go out with my employees to try to get
them housing, because they get denied on a regular basis. There's all
kinds of -- there's a lot of dirty stuff going on with the application,
application fees; that's another time. But I don't think that 60 days'
notice for a rent increase is that absurd. It takes two to three weeks
just to get up and move your family to a new place. I can tell you
that in Naples it takes you two months to find a place just to move to.
So if you're going to be put in a position where you can't pay
your bills and you can't -- you're going to have to take your grocery
money to pay your rent, I think that you should be given some notice.
It seems like a minor ask of the landlord.
I do have some other ideas that would actually help these things
that we can discuss at a different time, but I just wanted to say it
meant enough for me to get up this morning, because we did this last
year with my employees down at the restaurant, and they told me,
they said, we're leaving. And I said, why are you leaving? And
January 10, 2023
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they said, we can't find anywhere to live.
And it took us -- me two weeks, and I had to literally go out and
pay an entire year's rent up front to the landlord before he would even
let this guy come in, and he was completely qualified. He couldn't
have been a better tenant.
So I'm not attacking landlords. I'm not a landlord, so I don't
understand that side of it, but I do understand that we need
employees, and a lot of the lower-class and middle-class people that
we need to run this city to do the jobs that a lot people don't want to
do that can't find a place to live. So giving him 60 days' notice
seems pretty fair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, are you going to stay here to
the end? Because I had a question for you. But if you're a business
person and you need to leave, I could ask you quickly or when we
summarize at the end.
MR. BROOKS: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All right. I'll call you up
after the public speakers.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Elizabeth Radi. She'll be
followed by Danielle Hudson. Elizabeth has been ceded three
additional minutes from Susan Golden, who is sitting right there.
MS. RADI: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Elizabeth Radi,
Collier County Tenant Union.
I want to first start out with reading a -- a note that was sent to
me from a woman who was given 60 days' notice and grateful that
she was.
She said, I thank God it was in place for a moment. I got my
60-day notice on December 1st at my apartment complex. I've been
a good tenant and paid rent each month. Even right after the
hurricane when we had no electricity, I paid rent on time. They are
jacking up the price of my rent here, and they already know I can't
January 10, 2023
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afford it based on the info they already had, so they aren't giving me
the option to renew. So my daughter and I are on the streets again as
of January 31st. Honestly, I don't know what I would have done if I
had gotten the notice on January 11th for January 31st.
I am completely overwhelmed as it is. This is the second
Christmas in a row I have had to move. Last year the owner of my
house I was renting suddenly decided to sell, and I had to move out
December 20th. We are homeless -- we were homeless for about
two months until I found a tiny 400-square-foot one-bedroom
apartment for both my daughter and I. Now I have to pack up and
move again, and I haven't recovered from the first one.
So now we have no choice but to officially leave Collier County.
I am an educator with 30 years of experience working with kids with
autism and other special needs. In fact, I started the program for
kids with autism in Collier County Public Schools in 1995. Prior to
me moving here, there were no special autism services in Collier
County Public Schools at all.
I currently -- at all. Currently I'm working privately to serve
several families in Collier County with kids with severe ADHD,
autism, and other behavioral issues, but now I have to tell those
families, as of January 31st, they will no longer get any help because
I can't find an affordable place to live in Southwest Florida.
And not for nothing, but I don't really feel like commuting to
Naples to help families who have nice houses to live in where I can't
afford a crappy apartment. So no thanks. I'll just have to help
families in the places that I can actually afford to live.
So now my daughter is going to have to stay with my brother in
Utah so she has some level of stability until I'm settled somewhere
else. And it looks like my only option of staying in Florida is to rent
a room for $1,000 a month. So, yeah, that's my story, and as -- for
now, I'm concerned at this point Collier County can stew in the sewer
January 10, 2023
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of its own creation for the next 27 years because, as of January 1st,
I'm officially out. That was just one.
Back before this ordinance was even passed, I received a phone
call telling me that I should -- pull it off the agenda, that I was not
going to have the support for this vote to begin with and that I should
do the nice thing and just take it off the agenda.
I didn't feel right in my spirit, and I consulted community
leaders and pastoral leaders we both know, and all of them came back
and said, don't you dare. You have fought this long; don't give up
now, that God is with you, the community is with you, and we are
standing with you.
That ordinance was passed, and now ministry leader to ministry
leader, did you honestly pray about this when you brought it forward?
Honestly, I don't think so.
I want to state for the record that this ordinance was not
advertised, there was no press release, and even after we worked for
months to this, it was quietly and conveniently just tucked away.
There is no doubt in my mind that many -- this was the plan all along.
This ordinance has not been given any time to see whether or not it
has a positive or negative effect. To say any different is just not
true.
I have spoken to several landlords who have no problem with
the 60-day ordinance, and the ones that do are usually the
unscrupulous ones that I've been dealing with for the last year.
So I want to state for the record that I truly feel that anyone, any
realtors licensed and a member of NABOR with rental properties
should not be voting to repeal a signed law -- a signed law ordinance
that directly affects oneself or their spouses, and I and many of the
community find this a conflict of interest and sends a very strong
self-serving message. It also sends a message that you are catering
and favoring to certain affiliations and not in the interest of the
January 10, 2023
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community as a whole.
It isn't about less government and less freedom. You can't
infringe on the rights of voters, disenfranchise 48 percent of a district
out of being able to vote and even maintain that argument. It's
hypocritical.
We talk about landlords should be the ones to handle their own
property, and 90 percent of them have spoken about it all being
business. We have no problem putting codes in and forcing things
on businesses, but yet these landlords, out of the same mouth, talk
about "it's just business." It's all about business and no humanity.
Well, I think this needs more time. We have not given it enough
time. We cannot say that it will affect good or bad in any way, and
to do this is negligence.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Danielle Hudson. She'll
be followed by Garret FX Beyrent.
MS. HUDSON: Good afternoon, Commission. I am Danielle
Hudson. I'm the vice president of public policy at the Naples Area
Board of Realtors.
And we are here today to speak in favor of repealing the 60-day
Notice to Tenant Act. And I will go on the record and just state that
we did notice of our membership in November that this ordinance
had passed. We have been fielding many questions, and we have
been giving them best practice on how best to comply with this
ordinance.
That being said, we have been in opposition to this ordinance
since its inception at the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee
here in the county and also in the city. And our reason for
opposition -- there's two reasons, in fact. The first is that this
ordinance and ones like it mandate additional notice timelines in
addition to what was agreed upon in a lease agreement between the
tenant and the landlord. And, additionally, this requires notice above
January 10, 2023
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and beyond what is required in state law.
So, in Florida Statute 83.5751, it states that a rental agreement
with a specific duration, which is what most lease -- most rentals
have a specific duration lease, if notice before vacating the property
is required, a rental agreement may not require more than 60 days'
notice from either the tenant or the landlord. That's important
because you have leases that are being written today as well as
previous to this ordinance being passed that might have a timeline of
30 days' notice or 45 days' notice, 15 days' notice, whatever was
agreed upon between the tenant and the landlord in the written lease.
And I want to keep repeating that. This ordinance specifically
mandates an additional timeline on written leases. This does not
deal with, you know, non-written lease agreements.
So this brings us to an interesting conundrum. I actually had a
member ask me this question. They said, well, this doesn't impact
my ability to give 30 days' notice in the case of an eviction, right?
And I said, no.
And he said, well, proponents of this ordinance are stating
there's generally two reasons why they need 60 days' notice, either to
relocate or to find funds. In the case of relocation, if the County
Commission, which you have, have consistently said that the landlord
has the ability to set notice in cases of eviction and can also set the
rent, why would relocation be different in terms of a rental increase
notice as opposed to an eviction notice?
If 30 days is okay and agreed upon within the lease agreement
for an eviction, why wouldn't 30 days' notice be fine if I'm raising my
rent?
The second case in terms of needing to be able to find funds to
close the gap. I would just caution of using that. And it's actually a
whereas clause in the ordinance, I believe. Short of the county
approving tax funded rental assistance after the federal funds run out,
January 10, 2023
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those funds are self-limiting. So if we use that as a justification as to
why we need an ordinance with an additional timeline for notice so
that people can find funds, we just need to be mindful that those
funds may run out, thus eliminating one of the reasons why you guys
passed this ordinance in the first place.
So, gentlemen, we understand there's a housing shortage.
There's an inventory shortage on a vast scale. Our board has been
talking about that since well before my time. We have a diversity of
housing issue. We have a middle housing issue, but this ordinance
does not address that. This ordinance also does not keep people in
their homes, very generally. So what we are asking is that you do
repeal it and that we spend the time that we have spent on this
ordinance trying to address the problem, which is an inventory
shortage, instead of the symptom, which is individuals needing more
time to relocate elsewhere.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Garret FX Beyrent. He
will be followed by, on Zoom, Brandy Dickerson.
MR. BEYRENT: For the record, I have two uniforms today.
These are the people that aren't here. I can't tell you who they are,
because I have to leave to go to Texas. I've got a problem in Texas.
It's a bad situation.
So this is what I'm here for. This is DLC. We're calling this
mission DLC. I'm with the National Guard. I've been with the
guard since we started it a long time ago. A lot of us are still in it,
and we're still fighting for the people we believe should be protected.
I'm speaking on behalf specifically of my 27-year-old son's
mother who's been a teacher in Immokalee Trafford Elementary
School for about 30 years now. Yeah, 30 years. She's been
teaching 30 years. And she got a notice -- she's only been able to
rent places, and she rented, of all things -- the biggest mistake you
January 10, 2023
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can make is renting on College Parkway in a place called
Provincetown, because that just happens to be a Canadian
conglomerate. And the long and short is is that the guy -- they're
really strange apartments. They're designed where the people are
living directly above you but the stairs -- they're two-story structures.
So everybody has to keep their garage door open because they can't
park and open their doors. It's a yellow line.
Oddly enough, she got up this morning at 4:30, and she headed
out, and she had a problem because the door -- the door of the condo
next to her, which is right next to her, is the guy upstairs, and the guy
upstairs is a veteran compact man, and he's not a nice guy. He
parked his car up against her door. She couldn't get out her front
door where her car is.
So she's been desperate. And she told me this -- I got a text
from her this morning, my son is in very bad shape. He's -- he's
about -- according to my pharmacist, he's about two weeks away
from being dead. He's 27 years old, and he's drinking wood alcohol.
Wood alcohol does not -- does not go through a human being. It
kills you. That's all it's good for. He's suicidally depressed. He
needs help. And she's helping people, and they're going to be
booting her out, and she's got to move to another place. Thirty-day
notice.
And I've been taking care of him. He comes down and stays
with me, but it's tough. You need to have a place where people can
go to be safe.
That's all I have to say. Thank you.
This is -- if you want a shirt, you can wear it. If you really
believe in DLC, this is a mission. And I've got to go to a damn
mission now. I've got to go to -- of all places, I've got to go to El
Paso, Texas, now. I've got to get on a plane and go away to El Paso.
And you know what's in El Paso? Where we were, Fort Bliss, okay.
January 10, 2023
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It was a bad pass, and I've been there too many friggin' times.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your remaining speakers are all on Zoom.
We'll begin with Brandy Dickerson, and then she would be followed
by Dr. Thomas Felke.
Ms. Dickerson, you're being prompted to unmute yourself at this
time, if you'll do so.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Troy, how many do we have on
Zoom?
MR. MILLER: Three, sir.
Ms. Dickerson, I see you're unmuted. You have three minutes.
MS. DICKERSON: Okay. Thank you. Good afternoon,
Commissioners. We appreciate bringing this ordinance forward.
Thank you for your service to the community.
My name is Brandy Dickerson, and I'm here to provide input on
the 60-day notice ordinance. I'll be addressing the ordinance from
the informed perspectives of being a former landlord, property
owner, former realtor, property manager, current foster parent, and
former child with housing insecurity, and as a member of the
Associate Leadership Collier Class of 2017 who we made it our class
commitment to work towards solutions concerning the Collier
County affordable housing crisis.
I read a quote on WINK News from Commissioner now
Chairman LoCastro that said, I just don't pass anything because it sort
of feels good. I mean, it either does something or it doesn't. I really
respect that stance and hope that I can shed some light that the 60-day
ordinance does actually do something. Several somethings, in fact.
The 60-day ordinance buys time, time to gather additional
resources of every kind. Time to plan. Time to locate housing that
keeps kids in their same school districts. But most precious and
most important of all, I believe 60 days' notice as opposed to 30 days'
January 10, 2023
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notice increases the safety of children and reduces their chance of
abuse.
Now, where am I coming from with that? Like I said, I'm a
current foster parent. I've had 15 people children in my home. The
last five foster children, including the foster child that I currently
have in my home that is a Collier County resident, they were moved
from their families, their schools, their community, their siblings and,
worst of all, their innocence not because their parents abused them in
any way but because with only 30 days' notice, their parents were
sent scrambling to find affordable housing in their school districts
and, in desperation, their families were forced into a choice between
homelessness and communal living. These hasty communal living
situations are tremendous predator doorways and became predator
doorways to these five children that I've most recently had, leading to
those children's abuse and removal from their families without their
actual parents having abused them. It was literally their living
situation based on the housing crisis and this rush to communal living
based on only having 30 days, which is not enough time, that it put
these children in this predicament.
Landlords certainly have a right to charge whatever the market
will bear but we, as human beings, have a responsibility to govern
this housing crisis in a way that it doesn't cost children their
innocence and families their stability. Sixty days is the basic
minimum of what we can do to provide that.
Boards, communities, citizens, they're a lot like ordinances.
They either do something or they don't. I hope you will keep the 60
days' notice.
We honored Martin Luther King at the beginning of this
commission meeting, and I want to give you a quote from him in
closing. Martin Luther King said, it is all right to tell a man to lift
himself by his own bootstraps, but it is cruel jest to say to a bootless
January 10, 2023
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man that he ought to lift himself by his own bootstraps.
So I hope that if you have any questions about what this housing
crisis and how it's affected children and how 60 days can, indeed, buy
them more safety, buy their families more stability, I would love to
answer any questions about that, and I hope this maybe more unique
perspective on this will encourage you to keep the 60-day notice.
I know from taking care of the children in my home --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dr. Thomas Felke, and
he's followed by Rachel Heimann.
Doctor, you are muted. You have three minutes, sir.
DR. FELKE: Thank you. Good morning, Commissioners.
For the record, Dr. Thomas Felke, associate professor of social work
at Florida Gulf Coast University. I apologize for not appearing in
person; however, I'm on campus preparing to train students who will
assist in the upcoming Collier County homeless point-in-time count,
an event which will very likely, once again, indicate an increase in
the local homeless population.
Commissioners, I'm addressing you today in support of the
previously passed 60-day rental ordinance and strongly request that
you not follow through on the expected repeal of the ordinance.
Despite a previous comment by Commissioner LoCastro, advocates
for the 60-day ordinance never believed it was pixie dust that would
solve the affordable housing crisis which plagues Collier County.
What we believe is that the 60-day ordinance can be one part of a
comprehensive plan to address affordable housing in Collier County.
This is a vision shared by the Naples City Council, indicated by their
passing of a 60-day ordinance just as has been done by counties
across the state.
Comments that the ordinance places an undue burden on
landlords are unfounded. As noted by the speaker from NABOR,
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Florida state statute already provides that termination of written
year-to-year leases require a 60-day notice; therefore, it's difficult to
see this ordinance as imposing an undue burden.
Landlords are clearly already well versed in the practice of
sending 60-day notices. I cannot imagine telling an individual at
risk of losing their housing that they did not receive enough notice
because sending a letter was deemed too burdensome on a landlord.
In addition, comments made by a commissioner at the last BCC
meeting indicated that the ordinance is not helping anyone. I
question what, if any, data gathering was done to support this
comment. I strongly suspect nothing was completed in this regard,
particularly given the brief amount of time that has passed since the
ordinance was approved. However, a Naples Daily News article
from August 2022 underscores the importance of this ordinance.
The article details how a 70-year-old couple was provided an option
of either a 42 percent or 118 percent rent hike which, after accepting
the latter, resulted in a 263 percent rent hike all in the span of 60 days
with the couple eventually forced to move in with their children.
As we're all aware and is underscored by Senator Passidomo in a
recent op-ed, there is no single solution to the affordable housing
problem. We need to be open to any and all ideas to address this
issue. We need to not engage in blatant victim blaming and
gaslighting of tenants by stating, as one of our new commissioners
has, that tenants should just have a talk with their landlords or
suggesting that they move out of the county if it's too expensive for
them here.
We can do better, but we need to be open to a variety of options,
including enacting tenant-centered ordinances, restructuring county
social services, and seeking out productive public/private
partnerships.
Thank you for the time this morning.
January 10, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Commissioners, your final speaker on this item
is Rachel Heimann.
Rachel, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, if you'll do
so at this time. You have three minutes, ma'am.
MS. HEIMANN: Hi. I'm Rachel. Some of you guys know
me. I used to work for the Naples Daily News but left in September.
I'm speaking today on the request of Elizabeth Radi just because I
was the one who was at every meeting you guys had about the
ordinance and also wrote about it.
And I just wanted to speak to the issue of not hearing
enough -- or not knowing if enough people have been helped by the
ordinance so far. And I just wanted to point out that the ordinance
was passed, you know, on October 25th, and by the last meeting, only
49 days had passed. So I just found it confusing that you guys
would expect tons of people to have been helped by the ordinance so
far.
But I can also speak to the fact that while I was reporting on the
ordinance and the rental assistance thing, I probably spoke to 70
Collier residents about it, and 99 percent of those people did not want
to speak on record, meaning they didn't want their name in the paper
publicly advertised that they are financially struggling. So I just
found that concerning in regards to the request that, you know, I think
was made at the last meeting that you guys want people to come
forward and, you know, say it, that the ordinance has helped them.
You know, a lot of people are embarrassed and don't want to have to
admit that kind of thing.
Also, just personally speaking as someone who rented in SWFL
and based on the conversations I had with these 70 people, the
biggest issue in Collier and Lee County has to do with, you know,
property managements and the HOAs wanting to have background
January 10, 2023
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checks, for example, before a tenant can join their facility or
whatever, and that usually takes 20 days. And then the HOA review,
that can take an additional 10 days. So not only is the 60 days
allowing people to find places, it's giving that enough time for them
to even move into an apartment, which I think is very important.
And I do want to just underscore the -- what has already been
said about -- oh, wait, sorry.
The advertisement issue, I don't understand what the importance
of the -- like, that the ordinance had not been advertised, and that's
only just because -- I mean, the news covered it, so it's definitely out
there. But I don't necessarily remember you guys advertising to the
degree that LoCastro kind of talked about with flyers and things like
that, any of your other ordinances, so I would just wonder what the
point of that is, and I think my time is over.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you. Okay. Is that all our
public speakers?
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'll open it up to the
commissioners. I don't see anybody lit up yet, but...
Okay. Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So I brought this ordinance forward
not because I don't care about housing issues. I deeply care about
housing issues. I'm thankful enough to be on the AHAC as part of
the leadership so that we can get something resolved. I ran -- I
campaigned on this whole issue.
There is a -- this is a major problem. You're going to hear
stories like, I couldn't live in my home. I had to move. You're
going to hear stories like that all day long, and they will continue
until we can provide some housing. As a government force, we can
enable people to build assets below market value so that people can
either rent or own those houses. That's where we're moving forward.
January 10, 2023
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I wanted to repeal this ordinance because I wanted to get
government out of your life. It just so happens that if you're a
tenant, that government involvement helps you. If you're on the
other side of the fence, it's not a burden; it's just government telling
you what you have to do.
I think a 60-day ordinance -- or not an ordinance, but I think a
60-day notice is a thoughtful gesture between a landlord -- for 25
years I've had rental properties. I've had apartment complexes,
mobile home parks, I've owned notes, and I've always, in every
resident, I had an open dialogue and an open communication. If I
had a standard lease that was a 30-day notice and somebody said,
hey, I would like to have a 90-day notice, you know, due my job or
whatever, or I'm in the army, I was all about it. I put that in the
lease.
So you can't legislate morality. You can't say every landlord is
good. You can't say every landlord is bad. You can't say every
tenant is good. You can't say every tenant is bad.
So it's not -- this ordinance doesn't do anything at all to affect
workforce or affordable housing in our community. It's not that I
don't agree with it, but what the repeal does is remove the long arm of
government saying that we are telling you how you have to do your
business and telling you what you have to do. When we live in a
free country, we ought to be able to conduct business, and it is a
business. As a landlord, I took the risk and purchased assets and
allowed people to live in them. A lot of times they didn't take care
of those things, they didn't pay me on time, they didn't pay me at all,
but I was the one that took the risk to provide housing. I didn't owe
these people housing. I was providing it.
So this whole issue, I'm trying to get government out of your
lives, because it is a landlord-tenant relationship issue. Does 60 days
help? Yes, it does. That's the discussion that people need to have
January 10, 2023
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with where they rent from.
On the other side, as a landlord, from the landlord's perspective,
if I give a tenant 60 days' notice because I'm mandated to by
ordinance and that tenant hasn't had a very good pay history with me,
but by law I have to give them a 60-day ordinance, guess how much
more rent I'm going to collect? Zero. Now I'm stuck with the bag
for the next two months, and probably the third month, in order to get
them out.
So it's not because I don't care. It's not because we don't think
it's important. Yes, we understand the issue, but the 60-day
ordinance is not a way to go about -- to go about resolving the issue.
And I hope that makes sense, and I hope you've heard my heart about
that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. So my first question, it
was represented by one of the speakers that this ordinance wasn't
properly advertised. Is that true?
MR. KLATZKOW: It was advertised December 21st. Proof
of the advertising is in your backup.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So the answer was it was?
MR. KLATZKOW: The answer is it was absolutely advertised.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's No. 1. Number 2, I
want to reiterate that the 60-day ordinance doesn't fix the housing
issue. The housing issue exists. It's going to exist. It's a matter of
supply and demand. And one of the circumstances that we have, and
we -- this board is going to take that up in short order is the
extraordinary length of time an applicant has to go through,
developer has to go through in order to get a project approved.
You know, Commissioner Saunders and I were, I think, the only
two here left that were party to the findings of the ULI, that -- Urban
Land Institute that shared with Collier County that we don't have an
January 10, 2023
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affordable housing crisis; we have a house affordability issue. And
if we were to be adding 2,000 units a year into the marketplace, that
would help subside this theoretical crisis.
So here we are. Over our first five years, we approved 9,600
units. That's 2,000 units a year. Well, when I spoke with our
director of Building and Permitting, I found out that though we had
approved 9,600 units, only 1,400 of those units had actually hit the
ground and were, in fact, available.
I also found out that from the time of application until the CO,
the certificate of occupancy, was issued, that was a three-year
process. From the time of application until CO was three years.
So we are taking steps now. We learned during Irma -- and we
haven't talked about this yet. I'm going to sideswipe Mr. French on
this, but, you know, we learned during -- excuse me, not Irma, our
most recent Hurricane Ian, that typical remodel permitting from
application through approval required 11 inspections, and we were
able to still -- we were able to shorten that 11 inspection process
down to five and still meet the state building codes. So that's one of
the things that I would like to have a discussion about in the future as
to how we're governing the processes for developers that are looking
to bring product to the community so that we can, in fact, enhance the
supply.
I'm in support of the repeal of this ordinance. I didn't vote for it
when it was passed back in October. I believe there are statutes that
already exist in the state of Florida that manage the relationship
between a tenant and a landlord, and I believe that this ordinance
provides for a conflict for that relationship that already exists with the
tenant and the landlord and the written agreement. So I support the
repeal.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Before I go do Commissioner
Kowal, normally we would take a break at 12:25, but I'm sure with
January 10, 2023
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the approval of my colleagues, I'd like to just continue and run this
one to fruition unless we run into a -- you know, where it's going to
take an excessive amount of time.
But Commissioner Kowal, then followed by Commissioner
Saunders, and then I have some comments.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
Listen, we all know there's a workforce housing shortage in
Collier County. It's not a -- it's not a mystery. It's not a -- you
know, it's something I think about 24/7. It's something I think about
going to bed every night because I know the five of us up here is
going to be our biggest challenge moving forward.
And it is serious, and we have to do something about it, and we
have to figure it out. But we live in America, and a free market
dictates what happens a lot of times in our market.
And that's the juggling act that we have to deal with up here as
your governing body for this county that you put us in place to do;
that I hope we can really work together and with you, the community,
and come up with ways and ideas to solve that problem.
But like I said before when Commissioner Hall brought this up,
I had an issue with this one, I remember, when it got passed when I
had nothing to do with this board up here, and I always questioned
the constitutionality of it. And I know we had a speaker today that
wanted to speak at length about the Constitution, and the Constitution
doesn't say it only applies to renters. The Constitution applies to
everyone, the businessman, the worker, the dishwasher, everybody in
our society. It belongs to them, and it's a guardian of their rights.
So we have to look at it that way.
And when we as a body are governing up here, when there's
already statute in place from the state that govern a lot of these things
when it comes to tenant-landlord relations -- and we're talking about
a civil contract between two able bodies that agree into this contract,
January 10, 2023
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and us as a governing body. And this ordinance forces us to act
under the color of law at times because we do have a punishment for
the landlord, and that is a $500 fine.
So now we're acting in a different way than just disputing an
agreement between two people, which is a civil agreement. Not a
criminal agreement. But this statute forces our hand to actually file a
petition and fine this person criminally.
I'm not going to say it is actual criminal statute, but it is forcing
this body to act under the color of the law. And when you do that,
we have to guarantee that we are constitutionally protecting both
sides. And when I read this ordinance, it does nothing to help the
shortage of workforce housing in this county. And even with their
own testimony, one of you are our people -- speakers today read from
their phone and said at the beginning, said I was so thankful for the
60-day notice, but by the end of sentence said they were still sleeping
in their car.
So I don't know what they were thankful for. So, you know, I
was trying to figure it out as I was listening, but it didn't seem like the
60-day notice did her any good.
And even -- it says, it has to be an agreement for one year or
longer. What's there to keep the landlords from signing six-month
leases and raising your rent every six months? Nothing. This does
nothing. So any time we're forced to act under the color of law and
penalize somebody for an action that is a civil action between two
agreeing parties, I have a problem with that.
So if it's either written bad or it's not done right, we can read
visit it, but the way it stands and the way it's written, I don't think it's
constitutionally good for anyone within our community, and it does
not solve any problems. So I would have to, myself, repeal it.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
January 10, 2023
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Yeah, obviously, this ordinance is going to go away today, and
that's pretty clear; however, I think this whole conversation has been
very positive, and I'm delighted that this issue has been brought back.
I'm delighted that we've had this conversation because it's highlighted
how important this affordable housing issue is to individuals that
have come here to people that represent real human beings.
I'm excited about getting solutions. I think, Commissioner
Hall, with your experience -- and I know based on my conversations
with you before you were elected, before you became a
commissioner, I know you're committed to solving this problem.
And I think having all these conversations over the last several
months highlighting how important this is to solve this problem, I
think has been very positive.
So I think -- I would say to the folks that supported this
ordinance -- and I happen to be one of them, because I think it's
largely symbolic but I think somewhat helpful -- and I'll vote against
the repeal today, but it will be repealed, but I want to say to the folks
that have spoken today about real-life situations, I think you've made
a difference, and I think this board -- I think all five of us are now
prepared to make some hard decisions.
And I know with the leadership of Commissioner Hall and
working with the AHAC, there are going to be solutions that will be
real solutions for the affordable housing crisis that we're all
experiencing.
So, Commissioner Hall, I actually appreciate you bringing this
forward because it's generated a lot of good discussion that I believe
will lead to some real solutions.
So those are my comments. I think that this has been a good
conversation, and I believe this has been a good day for the future of
workforce housing in this community.
January 10, 2023
Page 111
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
Before I ask for a motion, I wanted to just make some
comments. I voted against it every time, and I knew the pluses and
minuses of it. But one of the things that was important to me was,
like I said -- and I stand by my comments. I don't vote for anything
just because it feels good. But once something's passed, whether I
voted for it or not, I want to see it successful, so I don't root against
something because I voted against it. If three of my colleagues are
more correct than me and I'm on the losing end of a vote, then show
me -- show me what it's done, then show me where I was wrong
or -- I'll eat those words.
I have several disappointments with the 60-day ordinance. I'll
start with advertisement. A lot of passionate people came in here
banging on tables saying, oh, my gosh, the 60-day ordinance, you
know, it's not the pixie dust, but it will make such a huge,
positive -- have such a huge, positive effect. It's already late. So
many other counties have passed it.
So where I'm disappointed is, if you were a huge supporter of it,
you should have helped to advertise it. NABOR got the word out.
The county sort of got the word out. So even though I might take
exception to what our own County Attorney says, those of you that
attended a meeting a couple of meetings ago, I asked or own staff, so
the day it was passed and I voted against it, please tell me what you
did instantaneously afterwards. And I'll say the same thing to Ms.
Radi. She spoke very eloquently for months at the podium here but
I -- you know, to be totally transparent, I had some conversations
with you, and you weren't even aware it was passed. And I would
think if somebody was following it so closely, five minutes after we
passed it, your phone would have exploded, a thousand flyers would
have been printed by a donor, every, you know, landlord who you
were in close contact with as the person who runs the Tenant Union,
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you know, those conversations would have been happening. Yet
months after October -- I think it was one of our last
meetings -- maybe our last meeting in December, I asked multiple
groups, so tell me, we're two months into it. Not -- I don't think that
that's a huge amount of time. You know, it's not two years but,
certainly, if this ordinance was worth the paper it was printed on, we
would hear an overabundance or at least a measurable amount of
success.
And I was disappointed that I thought it was more of crickets
that it's passed, and we have to wait and to see how the dust settles.
And I would think if we had all these success stories, we wouldn't
have to wait for dust to settle. We would hear of them.
I agree with some of my colleagues up here, and I did all the
times I thought this ordinance was government overreach, that there
are already statutes and relationships between a landlord and a tenant
that already exist. And I am for smaller government and not for
government overreach, and so I stand by my no vote.
I do agree with Commissioner Saunders, we've had a lot of
healthy conversation, and I don't -- if there's anybody in this room
that thinks if this 60-day ordinance is canceled right now or goes on
for another six months, it's the biggest piece of the puzzle for
affordable housing, then you're sorely mistaken.
So I challenge Commissioner Hall to take up the seat that I had
on the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee. I know we did a
lot of good, but there's so much more to do. I just don't believe that
this is even a major cog, and when it comes to, what I say,
government overreach and a redundancy of statutes and relationships
that already exist between tenants and landlords. I don't think it's a
requirement, and I haven't heard that -- anything to make me feel that
I was incorrect in that assessment.
So unless anybody has any other comments, do I hear a motion
January 10, 2023
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on the floor for this issue?
COMMISSIONER HALL: So moved to repeal the ordinance.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The ordinance is repealed with a
vote of 4-1.
MS. RADI: You did this on purpose, and you know that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We will now take a break for
lunch, and we will come back at -- what do you think, 1:40?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: 1:40.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That gives us an hour.
(A luncheon recess was had from 12:37 p.m. to 1:40 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. It's 1:40. We're down to
three commissioners. We should be able to get through stuff a lot
quicker.
A few housekeeping items. I know that, you know, we've
got -- 90 percent of this room is filled with Isles of Capri people. I
don't know how closely you're following the agenda. On purpose we
want to make the Isles of Capri issue a stand-alone item at the end,
not fragmented up, and I said that -- said that earlier.
We still -- you know, there's a lot of business in Collier County,
January 10, 2023
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so this is the number-one thing to all of you, and it's very important,
especially to me as your commissioner, those of you that live in
District 1, but there's other business as well. So I don't want you to
be sitting here -- you know, I've been trying to be as transparent as
possible, but the reality is, we don't have these hard timelines. I'm
sure you wouldn't want to be cut off at the podium when you come
up here to speak on Isles of Capri. Well, neither did the other people
that were speaking on issues that we just voted on.
But there's still a few issues on the agenda. So I don't think we
have a crystal ball right now to see the timeline, you know. You
might be sitting there going, well, when do we talk? When's this
happen? Well, there's business of the day also to continue to come
up.
So we will -- we're going to keep you posted from here, but
something for you to think about. You've had 65 people sign up to
speak and, you know what, this is America. You get your time at the
podium. That's over three hours, then, of presentations. And so I
can tell you -- I can't speak for all the commissioners here, but, you
know, we don't work 9:00 to 3:00. So if we need to, you know --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You do.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- charge hard -- no. If we need to
charge hard, that's great. What I don't think any of us want to do is
sort of break this up to a second meeting. So either we're going to
go or possibly not. And then I was just speaking with the County
Manager. We have other options at our disposal as well, which we
can talk about. Don't know yet exactly what would be possibly the
smartest thing to do, because we have a lot to still go through. But
what I would tell all of you is maybe at the next break if you're out in
the hall, we'll hear all 65 people, but, you know, 65 people at three
minutes a clip might be what you want, might not be what you want.
Nobody here is muzzling anybody. I mean, that's not what
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we're here to do. But part of thinking about your strategy to be able
to come up here -- and, remember, this is the order for your particular
issue. It's the applicant, it's the county staff, then it's the comment
from the citizens. This is a big issue. The applicant and the county
staff conversation, I believe, is going to be more than five minutes.
It's going to be lengthy. So just think about that while you're sitting
here. And we will keep you posted. I think it will be obvious sort
of how things are flowing, but Isles of Capri is not next.
So if you have a copy of the agenda, the next item, you know,
Ms. Patterson, I believe, is 10A.
MS. PATTERSON: It is 10A.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So without further ado, unless -- I
see Commissioner Saunders light up. Sir?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Just a real quick comment.
I think your comment about getting the opposition folks to get a little
bit better organized so they won't have 69 speakers, I think, is a great
idea. But my view is we'll get that started today, and let's finish it, if
it takes till 8:00 or 9:00, 10:00 at night, I think everybody wants to
get it behind us. And so that -- I just wanted to place that out there;
that's my view. Let's get it -- we'll get it done.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We're going to press on, sir.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have one.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: One quick point, and that has
to do with the speakers. And as we're moving through the process
and we move into the public, if you hear someone say what you've
already said, come to the podium and say, I agree with George, and
that way there we're not consuming that entire three minutes. If
George has already made your point -- I'm picking on him because
he's sitting there. But it's -- that's something that we can do to help
January 10, 2023
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move along the process and still give everybody time. You're still a
matter of record that you've registered your response, but we can do
that, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right. And I agree with
Commissioner Saunders. Trust me, nobody up here is watching the
clock, but at times I have gotten emails from citizens that said, well, I
couldn't stay there till 7:00 at night. You know, I can't believe you
couldn't move things. So I don't know that we'll ever please anyone
[sic], but we're here to work, and we're here to hear from you, and
we're here to get things done.
So without further ado, let's press with the business that's ahead
of that.
And, Ms. Patterson, we'll move on to 10A.
Item #10A
RECOMMENDATION TO ADJUST THE BOARD’S CALENDAR
BY ELIMINATING THE SUMMER RECESS AND THUS
PROVIDE FOR YEAR-ROUND MEETINGS – MOTION TO
WORK THROUGH THE SUMMER BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO -
APPROVED (COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS OPPOSED)
MS. PATTERSON: 10A is a recommendation to adjust the
Board's calendar by eliminating the summer recess and, thus, provide
for year-round meetings. This item was brought to the agenda by
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And on the note of we're here
to work, here's a perfect example of that.
I have served as your county commissioner for six years, in
excess of six years now. I've lobbied to do this since I became your
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county commissioner. I've lived in Naples since 1981, and when I
came here 41 years ago, there was less than 100,000 people living in
Collier County. Now we're pushing 400,000 people. And I believe
that the community deserves a voice. I believe that the community
deserves an opportunity to reach your elected officials on a far more
regular basis than what we have been doing, and just because we
have been doing it doesn't mean we can't try something else.
So the proposition that I brought here today is to extend the
Board's calendar, work throughout the summer, maybe adopt some
rules as we go with regard to contentious items of land use and such
to not be held in those summer meetings, and take -- take the business
of our community on a more regular basis.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I just want to say that was
part of my platform when I ran that I just think times have changed.
This is a busy county with a two-and-a-half billion dollar budget.
You know, we're not -- we're not an elementary school where we take
summer break or, you know, companies -- Arthrex doesn't break for
the summer, NCH doesn't. They do some weird things in
Washington, D.C., but I'm proud of what I think we need to do here.
I agree with Commissioner McDaniel, and I voted to cancel the
summer break every single time it came up, and it failed. But having
said that, I also want to echo that some of -- some of the pushback
that we got or some of the feedback I would say from citizens that we
got who liked the summer break, it wasn't because they liked us
taking vacation. And I can tell you every commissioner up here is in
the building. It's not like we all go to Tahiti, but the reality is, some
of the people that gave us feedback were worried that we would have
an Isles of Capri issue on the -- you know, squeeze that under the
door over the summer. I'm here to tell you that most of our meetings
in this room are not Isles of Capri and big -- it's a lot of the daily
business. Look at the agenda. We're approving the payment of
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money, hurricane recovery, the building of berms on beaches,
approving contracts for construction so we can get things going.
How many of you have sent me an email saying, why do I see
all this construction in season? Aren't you guys smart enough to do
it in the summer? Well, you know, sometimes part of keeping the
business of government moving is that we are keeping it moving all
12 months out of the year. Maybe some of these summer meetings
wouldn't be marathon sessions because we wouldn't be voting on an
Isles of Capri.
But I voted and supported exactly what Commissioner
McDaniel has said, and I think -- you know, it failed a couple of
times, but I just really think that times have changed, and you elect
commissioners to be here full time. If there's not something on the
agenda that calls for a meeting, the County Manager can tell us the
agenda's very thin. I think, you know, we don't need to have a
meeting on July whatever, and we could make that determination.
I'm in full agreement that, you know, we should have the
opportunity to have meetings in here every two weeks for 12 months
out of the year, you know, pending holidays and whatnot and sort of
the typical things. I know I've got some people lit up here, and then
it looks like we have public comment.
Before I get back to you, Commissioner McDaniel, let me go to
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes. A couple questions for
staff and a couple comments.
I don't have any problem with having those meetings in July and
August, but I do want to correct one thing. We always have an
opportunity to have a meeting. If there's something that needs to be
done, the Chairman, on his own motion, can call for a meeting at any
time. So three commissioners can call for a meeting at any time.
So if there's ever a point where there's some sense that we're getting
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behind on anything, that's just a matter of the Chairman recognizing
that and taking action to call the meeting.
But there's a reason why we've had this break, and it's not
because commissioners are in Tahiti, as you were saying, and it's
not --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I said they weren't.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I know. And it's not
because we aren't willing to work. We are here, but there's a reason
for this. And I want to turn to the Manager, and I told her this
morning that I was going to put her on the spot a little bit. I did this
last time it came up.
We have a staff that puts together a 2,000- to 2500-page agenda
every two weeks all year long. Now, we also give them incredible
amounts of stuff to do. Today we're talking about, you know, the
CDC grant and adding these types of things, but they have planning
things that they're working on, Golden Gate Master Plan, the other
master plans that they're working on.
So I want to ask the Manager if this break is important to staff
and, if so, why, but I realize that, you know, it's a Commission
decision, and staff has said, and they'll say it today -- I'm sure the
Manager will say it today -- wherever this board's meeting, they're
ready to be with us. It's not like they're trying to avoid a meeting,
but there's a reason for this. And I want the new -- the two new
commissioners to understand why we've done this in the past. So
that's my question.
MS. PATTERSON: Of course.
So, as Commissioner Saunders said, we put together an agenda
every two weeks. So, essentially, one week is the week that we're
preparing and approving the agenda to print, and the next week we
have a meeting, and we do this throughout the year.
In those six-ish weeks that we have in the summer, we are not
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doing that for a portion of those, and it gives the opportunity at that
time to do things, special projects, master planning. We spend a lot
of time on the AUIR over the summer getting it ready for the fall. It
also does give those staff members, specifically those that are very
involved in the agenda process, the opportunity to take that time
during that period of time away where they're not having to delegate
that responsibility to somebody else.
Now, what we have said is, we'll make it work. We will adjust
our schedules to make that work, as well as working on those special
projects throughout the year, which we do that as well, and it also is
going to provide an opportunity for, from time to time, you as the
Board to see different faces coming up here. You get used to seeing
your department heads and some of your key division directors. It is
going to give the opportunity, as some of those folks, this is the only
time of year that they might take that vacation with their kids or
whatever that might be, that we are now going to have those -- that
bench be able to come here and have an opportunity for you to get to
know them as well.
So with those things that may present a challenge, they
also -- there may be some benefit that arises as well. And, as
Commissioner Saunders said, it is a Commission decision, and we
will make it work. But for the benefit of the new commissioners,
that summer period was always intended for that time for the staff to
have a period of time to execute some of these projects that have
been assigned and do some of that strategic planning and capital
project work, planning work that we squeeze in for the rest of the
year.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Just a closing comment. If
there was ever a point in time where we feel that we need to have
extra meetings, that's easy to accomplish. But I just wanted
to -- Commissioner Hall and Commissioner Kowal to know why this
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has been kind of the policy in the past. It's not just commissioners
trying to avoid meetings. It's really giving our staff an opportunity
to get some good work done.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: One other thing I'll say, and not in
rebuttal to that, but in response to that is, I think the other side of the
coin would be is if we continued all throughout the year, and we also
have the ability, like you said, to call special meetings, but we also
have the ability to say, wow, there isn't enough on the agenda. And
so it's a matter of our default is we're going to have meetings
throughout the whole year. It's more proactive by saying we might
cancel one here or there. Then, wow, we've got this gap, but we
could always squeeze in a meeting.
Secondly, one of the reasons why I'm a supporter of having the
schedule go throughout the whole year is it might show us where on
our staff we might be a little bit thin, because if you say, well, the
staff will just make it work. Well, I don't want them to make it
work. I want to excel. So if we added these meetings and
somebody is pulling double duty and doesn't get, you know, time
with their kids or doesn't get to work on a special project, then we
need to figure out how we can beef up our staff.
Because, you know, like -- I'll go back to my original comment:
Times have changed. This is a full-time job. It's a full-time county.
It needs full-time support. And this is a time to be able to see what
parts of our departments need that extra break and now all of a
sudden are overtasked. And that's where we're -- that's where I
know -- I'll just speak for me -- then that's where I'm going to put the
acceleration of my position to support the staff and say, wow, we just
discovered a couple departments are really stressed out with these
extra meetings. Why aren't we hiring more people?
Commissioner Hall, and then, Commissioner Daniel [sic], you're
January 10, 2023
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on deck.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'm certainly not opposed to
working all year long. When I read about some of the benefits of the
break were to allow staff to -- key staff to take vacation and to plan, I
thought, maybe if we worked just -- school is out -- school comes
back, what, second week of August all the time?
MS. PATTERSON: Usually.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So there's no sense in taking those
days off, because everybody has their kids home. So what if we just
missed the second week in July and worked all the way through
August?
I'm just saying -- I bring it up to allow key staff for vacation
because, I mean, kids are only out of school a very short time now.
And I'm not opposed to going all year long. I'm just bringing it up
for discussion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Oh, yeah, okay. I thought
you said Daniel.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, McDaniel. Got it. I know
your name. I was just talking to your mom. It's McDaniel. I got
it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: She's watching.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: She told you to sit up straight, by
the way. She sent us a note here. Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: To your comment,
Commissioner Hall, this is a pilot program, and rather than moving
items based upon school and so on and so forth, our staff is
already -- we've already started to see the new faces. We've already
had discussions about developing the bench strength and
having -- other than just the regular faces come to the podium and
speak with us, we've already started that process.
January 10, 2023
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I would -- it's a critical -- from my perspective, it's a critical
period of time for our community because of our fiscal year. The
way our current systems work, we take the public out of the process
substantively by taking that period of time off right before the
beginning of our fiscal year in October. We come back in
September. We have a couple of meetings, budget hearings that are
done along with the regular meetings, and then we adopt our budget,
and we go on. I'm looking to enhance the public input into the
government processes of what Collier County has.
From a negotiation standpoint, if you want to -- first of all, any
of us that has a conflict because of already scheduled items -- some
people travel and the like -- you're certainly welcome, if you can, to
call in. With a vote of the Board, we'll acquiesce and certainly allow
that.
And then the only other -- you know, we take two -- necessarily,
another month off in the fall with one meeting in November and one
meeting in December. And Commissioner Saunders, last year when
we were talking about this, talked about that November meeting, and
everybody knows that I go away in November. So if the Board
wanted to, we could have another meeting in November. Most of us,
most of you are here during that period of time, and we could have
that meeting as well. That would be what I would propose as
opposed to trying to limit what we're, in fact, doing right now.
So I'm okay with the one meeting, because Thanksgiving
through -- and Christmas and New Year's, it's a difficult time of year
to get anything done. But I would like for this to be used as a pilot
program. We have some pretty -- I have some pretty interesting
ideas that I haven't had an opportunity to speak with you gentlemen
about yet as to what we -- excuse me -- what we can do in those new
meetings in the summertime.
But to assure the public, the goal is not to do anything nefarious,
January 10, 2023
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not -- necessarily, we wouldn't be hearing any real contentious
land-use items during that period of time but just conducting the
business of the community, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Before I go to Commissioner
Kowal, I just wanted to ask Mr. Miller, how many -- we have public
comment. How many? One, okay.
Commissioner Kowal, and then we'll go to public comment.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Commissioner or
Chairman.
I'm going to be short and sweet. It doesn't -- to me it doesn't
bother me. I'm not afraid of work. I'm retired. I can be here every
day, so, you know, it's not a problem.
But it comes down to, I believe it's a staff thing, you know, and
it's -- and what situation they've been in over the years, and it sounds
like Commissioner Saunders was saying that they use that time to
work on the things that you don't see, the public don't see behind the
scenes that are just as important as the things you do see up here
when we're on the dais.
You know, we can always try something new, you know. If it
works, it works. If it doesn't, we can always go back to the old way.
You know, sometimes people say, don't try to reinvent the wheel or
don't break something that's not broken but, you know, it is true, we
are not the same county we were 20, 30 years ago. This is a thriving
metropolitan area. We've got 405,000 people here on a full-time
basis, and then we probably increase by another 100- to 200,000 in
season. So it's quite a job and, you know, it is something that we
have to pay attention to all year-round, so...
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, we'll go to the public
comment.
MR. MILLER: Yes, Chairman. And I've just had one other
January 10, 2023
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gentleman want to make comment. That's not usually what we do,
but it's your discretion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, absolutely. Go ahead.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Rae Ann Burton will be followed by
Mr. Zegarac. I'm sorry, I've forgotten your first name, sir.
MR. ZEGARAC: Daniel.
MR. MILLER: Daniel.
MS. BURTON: You just can't get rid of me.
Okay. I was going to say good morning, but it's now afternoon.
My name is Rae Ann Burton, Rural Golden Gate Estates.
Item 10A, 24219, to eliminate summer recess. What is
preventing -- presenting concerns to the residents and will keep them
from commenting on issues on the agenda, one, the BCC states it will
not present for vote any projects of major changes such as amending
the Growth Management Plan or push through projects that have
been questioned and protested against in the past, but what if the
developers demand it?
Two, it is felt that there will be projects that concern residents
that will indeed pass through per the demands of developers without
any comments from the affected communities or residents.
Three, adding two meetings to July and August will cost the
taxpayers an extra $7,500 to 10,500, plus the staff vacationing,
meaning BCC will be working with reduced staff. Salary is one of
the biggest, greatest costs. Would this mean an increase to taxes?
Now, 7,500 to 10,500 may not be a lot to you, but to a retired senior
citizen, that's a lot.
Four, the taxpayers need those two months to research the
projects already being presented, as the agenda items are posted late
on Thursday the week before, not giving much time for research.
Five, eliminating the summer recess is a poor service to the
taxpayers of Collier County.
January 10, 2023
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I request that you vote no. Plus, I believe the taxpayers should
have the opportunity to have those months for research and a break
from meetings, plus the staff need to catch up with other projects and
family time. I think you should vote no.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your final speaker is Daniel Zegarac.
MR. ZEGARAC: Good afternoon. Daniel Zegarac.
Oddly enough, I'm sitting next to the person that doesn't want to
change your schedule. But, you know, a billion-and-a-half to two
billion, now we're talking two to two-and-a-half billion pieces and
parts galore. I mean, if our managers have become accustomed to
and need that time off, guys, you've got to -- you've got to do more
reps. You've got to come to practice. You've got to be more
committed.
You know, you are our football team. If you don't win for us,
we don't need ya, you know. But I would say, you know, to manage
something as large as what we have going on here, really? You can
do it remotely, or you can do it without seeing people? I don't
understand that at all.
I've worked for guys that have, you know, a couple billion,
two-and-a-half billion going on in sales, and, you know, when
somebody comes in the room and says, you know, can we take off
July and August, you know, there's one less chair in the room at that
point, you know.
We all have to do our job. And I don't -- I don't want to make it
tough on people or, you know -- but sometimes you just got to -- if
you -- if you want to keep doing what you've been doing, you're
going to keep getting what you've been getting.
You know, maybe our upper echelon managers need to accept
this and say, hey, the vacation schedule's going to be a little different
this year. You know, it's not -- we're not all going to be gone in July
January 10, 2023
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and August, plus whenever else we leave. But this is -- this is
bigtime. This isn't -- this isn't a little municipality. Little
municipalities actually meet more often. This is -- this is major
league stuff.
And, you know, the consent agendas that we don't have time to
go over now, are you kidding me? Are we going to be surprised
about engineering costs that increase after projects? I mean, I
don't -- I don't want you guys to be surprised about that kind of stuff.
And I'm just talking about operationally. I'm really not, you know,
concentrating on development or other things right now. But I am
for, you know, forgoing the July/August vacation.
So thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And just as -- just as an aside,
Dan, our staff's prepared for this. They've already been preparing
for this, just so you know. They are our football team.
They -- assuming that the Board is in consent with the thought
process. And so with that, they are -- they're already putting
processes in place to be prepared for this. So just to assure you that
they are, in fact, ready.
So with that I'm going to make a motion that we adjust the
Board's schedule. We work through the summer months. If you
wish -- do you want to add -- and I don't know. Do you want to add
in a November meeting or leave it be one in November and one in
December?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I like what -- I mean, me
personally, I like the proactive approach, which is we schedule all of
our meetings. We always have the ability to eliminate one rather
than the other way around where we keep the gap and go, well, we
can always throw one in there. So I don't want to monkey around. I
like your idea of saying, you know, it's a pilot program. And I
January 10, 2023
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second the motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So you want to add in a
November meeting? Because I don't want to have one at Christmas.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So just the November
meeting.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So we work all year long
with the one meeting off at the Christmas and New Year's holiday.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Which is what we've always had.
Okay. So we have a motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are you clear?
MR. KLATZKOW: We're not clear.
MS. PATTERSON: No, we're not clear. We have
traditionally had one meeting in November and one meeting in
December.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He misspoke.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. So we're going to go --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He misspoke.
MS. PATTERSON: We're going to go through the summer and
leave the other two months as they are, or we're adding?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. We're going to have
two meetings in -- two in November. Two in November, and the
only meeting we're going to take off this coming year will be
the -- unless we decide that there isn't sufficient work for the Board to
do or the -- you know, for what we need to do, so...
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Who gets to make that
decision that there's not enough work to do at a meeting?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't know. That was his
idea.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think that -- and I'm sorry
January 10, 2023
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for jumping in.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, no.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: But just the idea that being
proactive means that we schedule these meetings then we can cancel
them as opposed to we don't have a meeting scheduled but in advance
we can schedule one if we need one, I like the latter approach where
if we need a meeting we can schedule it.
So I'm going to vote against this, because I think it's unfair to
our staff, and that's the only reason I'm voting against it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I can see working through the
summertime, but I'm going to be a proponent of one meeting in
November, one meeting in December just because of the timing of
the year. It's difficult to get --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I agree with that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I don't know that I
misspoke. What I wanted to do was leave our schedule the way it is
and add the meetings that we have never had over the summer. So
maybe I did misspeak, but I think I'm what echoing is what
Commissioner Hall is saying is that we keep what we've always had.
We're just adding the meetings in July and August that have always
been set aside.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So for clarity purposes, we're
going to work through the summer, one meeting in November, one
meeting in December, and that's my motion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And I second that.
MS. PATTERSON: Understood.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. So we have a motion and
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
January 10, 2023
Page 130
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes 4-1.
Okay.
Item #10B
DIRECT THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO ADVERTISE, AND
BRING BACK FOR A PUBLIC HEARING, AN ORDINANCE
WHICH WOULD CREATE THE UNPAVED PRIVATE ROAD
EMERGENCY REPAIR MUNICIPAL SERVICE TAXING UNIT
BY AUTHORIZING A LEVY OF NOT TO EXCEED ONE (1.0)
MIL OF AD VALOREM TAXES PER YEAR - MOTION TO
APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER KOWAL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, Item 10B is a
recommendation to direct the County Attorney to advertise and bring
back for a public hearing an ordinance which would create the
unpaved private road emergency repair municipal service taxing unit
by authorizing a levy of not to exceed one mill of ad valorem taxes
per year. This item is brought to the agenda by Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. Again, I've served as
your county commissioner for in excess of six years. For anybody
who's had an opportunity to read the item, there's in excess of
110 miles of dirt/private roads in Collier County. It's a huge issue
for our community from a health, safety, and welfare standpoint.
One of the -- the primary job, I believe, of local government is
January 10, 2023
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to provide for the health and safety of our community. And so the
proposition here is to levy up to a one-mill tax. Now, we're not
voting on it today. We're just voting to bring it back as an ordinance
and hear it again, but to generate the funds from people that do access
their properties off of private roads. The maintenance on these roads
is scattered. I could write -- I could write a book on the stories that
have transpired in my six years of people.
I had a friend that passed away because they couldn't get an
ambulance to him because he lived off of a private dirt road, and the
water was so high they couldn't get the ambulance through to get to
him. He passed away of a heart attack. So -- that's not the primary
reason, but it's one of the reasons.
So this will aggregate the property owners. We'll set up a
committee to review the roads based upon our staff's
recommendations. We'll do the worst first. We're going to set the
millage rate to not exceed 1 percent. My wish is when we actually
adopt this that we set the first rate at a half a mill, which -- and then
monitor the progress for the maintenance of the roads and the upkeep
to allow them all to be traversable by an ambulance.
The ambulance is the least accessible apparatus that we have
from an emergency services standpoint to be able to get to our
people. The fire departments will benefit. The Sheriff will benefit.
The trash collection vehicles, which are all government entities that
we provide, will all benefit from that.
So that's the reason that I've brought this forward. And it will
cure an enormous amount of ills that are transpiring in our
community as well, just for lack of communication and cooperation
for folks that access their property off of private roads.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: And I just want to reiterate for the
public that this is an opt-out provision.
January 10, 2023
Page 132
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So if I have private road and I do
maintain my road and I'm doing a good job, then I can opt out of this.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. There are two
different property owners that come to mind. Oil Grade Road that
goes from Oil Well up to Immokalee Road. Collier Enterprises
owns that road and owns both sides of the road. They can opt out.
They take care of their own road. There's a -- I happen to live in
Corkscrew Sanctuary Swamp. There's a lady over there that's part of
the Bonness family, Better Roads, Bonness Inc., and she has a really
nice road. They have millings on her road, and they have already
taken care of it. So folks on roads like that that are already
maintained, we've appropriated for a one-time opt-out to -- for folks
that do live on their roads to take care of their own properties. If
they don't do it -- and, you know, sometimes property ownership
changes and such -- then we have the right to come back and induce
them back into the process.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Unless there's another discussion,
County Manager, can you just read the recommendation aloud just
for clarity before we make a motion to vote on it.
Commissioner Kowal's actually lit up here, so let's go to him
first. Go ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I wanted clarity. We're voting
on it today, or was it just to --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, no, this is --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: -- move it to --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: As with all of our ordinances,
we have one meeting or one vote to agree to bring it back as an actual
ordinance. And so --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: That's why I actually wanted it
read, because -- and not for the sake of the new commissioners, but
January 10, 2023
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just for all of us, that we're voting exactly what Commissioner
McDaniel just said, to bring it back for discussion, and I think that
would be clear if that was read out loud after we've all talked.
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm going to support
bringing this ordinance back, but I'm not likely to support when it
does come back, if I feel that there's some inequities in it. I
understand that people that already have their roads paved can opt
out. But this is a one-mill tax, which is a very substantial tax. And
I know, Commissioner McDaniel, you said you want to start at a half
a mill, and I know it says up to one mill, but it's a one-mill tax, and
there may be a lot of people who choose to live on unpaved roads
because they like that lifestyle. And, in addition, we have these
unpaved roads that are not connected. They're all over the county.
I don't know how staff's going to manage it. So I'm just saying, I'm
likely to vote against it when it comes back because I think it's
unwieldy and unfair.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And, you know, that is
part of the discussion points, Commissioner Saunders, is folks have
chosen to live on these private roads, and the obligation then comes
for them to maintain their own road. But then we, as the
government, with our EMS -- I shared one example of a friend who
passed because we couldn't get an ambulance down the road.
In the past, as we have always done, when a road became so
much in ill repair, the county went in and fixed it and then forced an
MSTU on the residents of that particular road. And we have had to
do that twice on one road that's utilized -- that's a private road that's
utilized to access a government-owned piece of property, the Nancy
Payton bird sanctuary. Blue Sage was the road. It fell into the
"crick" twice just because of ill repair, and the property owners on it,
January 10, 2023
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including Collier County, were not taking care of the road.
So, again, I tried to not belabor the point just to move it along,
because today we're just voting on whether or not we're going to hear
it again and actually adopt the ordinance or not at a future date. But
there's a myriad of circumstances that are out there that this will
really, really benefit our community.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Before I ask the County Manager
just to read it for clarity, I wanted to make a comment. And I
actually agree with Commissioner Saunders, and the reason I'm going
to say that I'm likely not to vote for it with what I know right now, is
between now and when it's brought back, if somebody's a big
supporter of this, to include Commissioner McDaniel and any of the
other commissioners or citizens, then educate me on why I should
vote for this, because I have some of the similar concerns
Commissioner Saunders does.
Some of the examples that Commissioner McDaniel brought up,
all of the examples, have merit, but there's also other ways to solve
that. And that might be arguable, and we're not going to waste time
here because alls we're doing is inviting it to come back for deeper
discussion. But the reason I go on the record, similar to
Commissioner Saunders, is I welcome input. I welcome education.
I welcome information from people who live on that unpaved road,
and they love every second of it, and all the folks that are in between
so that we can have an educated discussion and an eloquent
discussion and vote properly on it.
So, County Manager, if you would just read for clarity what
we're voting on, and then I'll ask for a motion.
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. The recommendation is that the
Board of County Commissioners directs the County Attorney to
advertise and bring back for public hearing a proposed ordinance
which would create the unpaved private road emergency repair
January 10, 2023
Page 135
Municipal Service Taxing Unit, MSTU.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do I have a motion?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Okay. County Manager, we are now moving to 11A?
Item #11A
AWARD CONSTRUCTION INVITATION TO BID (“ITB”) NO.
22-7992R, “PALM RIVER PUBLIC UTILITIES RENEWAL
PROJECT AREAS 1 AND 2,” TO HASKINS, INC., IN THE
AMOUNT OF $15,579,339.85, AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN
TO SIGN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT, AND APPROVE THE
NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS (THIS IS A
COMPANION TO ITEM #11B) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL – APPROVED
Item #11B
AWARD REQUEST FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES (“RPS”)
January 10, 2023
Page 136
NO. 22-7998, "CONSTRUCTION ENGINEERING AND
INSPECTION SERVICES FOR PALM RIVER PUBLIC
UTILITIES RENEWAL PROJECT," TO STANTEC
CONSULTING, INC., IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF
$7,148,209.57, AUTHORIZE STAFF TO ISSUE AN INITIAL
PURCHASE ORDER IN THE AMOUNT OF $2,521,148.57, TO BE
FOLLOWED BY FUTURE PURCHASE ORDER
MODIFICATIONS SUBJECT TO BOARD APPROVAL, AND AS
DICTATED BY BOARD-APPROVED FUNDING UNDER
PROJECTS #70257 AND #60234 (THIS IS A COMPANION TO
ITEM #11A) - MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER
SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HALL –
APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Items 11A and 11B are companion items.
Item 11A is a recommendation to award construction Invitation to
Bid No. 22-7992R, Palm River Public Utilities Renewal Project,
Areas 1 and 2, to Haskins, Inc., in the amount of $15,579,339.85,
authorize the Chairman to sign the attached agreement, and approve
the necessary budget amendments. If you'd like, I can read its
companion at the same time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Please do.
MS. PATTERSON: This is the CEI that goes along.
Item 11B is a recommendation to award Request for Proposal
[sic] Services No. 22-7998, Construction Engineering and Inspection
Services for Palm River Public Utilities Renewal Project to Stantec
Consulting in the amount of $7,148,209.57, authorize staff to issue an
initial purchase order in the amount of $2,521.148.58, to be followed
by future purchase order modifications subject to Board approval and
as dictated by Board-approved funding under Projects 70257 and
60234.
January 10, 2023
Page 137
Mr. Matt McLean, your Public Utilities Engineering division
director, is here to present or answer questions.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm going to move to -- or to
Commissioner Saunders first. He's lit up, so we might have a --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, unless there's
some questions of the Commission, I would go ahead and make a
motion to approve 11A and 11B.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: But there may be some
questions from --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Or public speakers.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I see none, then I'll make the
motion to approve 11A and 11B.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I've got a motion and a
second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That was an amazing
presentation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Isles of Capri people, don't get so
excited. That's not going to happen in a couple of hours, or an hour,
but it could be. It could be. It's up to you.
Mr. Finn. Okay. So we're moving to 11D, correct?
Item #11D
January 10, 2023
Page 138
RESOLUTION 2023-09 /CWS 2023-01: THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, ACTING EX-OFFICIO AS THE
GOVERNING BOARD OF THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER-
SEWER DISTRICT ADOPT A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE
PROPOSAL OF JPMORGAN CHASE BANK, N.A., TO
PURCHASE FROM THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER-SEWER
DISTRICT (DISTRICT) A SERIES 2023 TAXABLE BOND IN
ORDER TO REFUND ALL OF THE DISTRICT’S WATER AND
SEWER REFUNDING REVENUE BONDS, SERIES 2016, FOR
NET PRESENT VALUE INTEREST SAVINGS; APPROVE THE
FORM OF A BOND PURCHASE AND EXCHANGE
AGREEMENT (WITH RESPECT TO THE SERIES 2026 TAX-
EXEMPT BOND); AUTHORIZE THE ISSUANCE OF A COLLIER
COUNTY WATER AND SEWER DISTRICT REFUNDING
REVENUE BOND, SERIES 2023 IN THE PRINCIPAL AMOUNT
OF NOT TO EXCEED $52,000,000 AND PROVIDING FOR THE
POTENTIAL EXCHANGE OF SUCH SERIES 2023 BOND FOR A
COLLIER COUNTY WATER AND SEWER DISTRICT
REFUNDING REVENUE BOND, SERIES 2026 IN 2026;
DELEGATE CERTAIN AUTHORITY TO THE BOARD
CHAIRMAN AND OTHER APPROPRIATE OFFICERS OF THE
COUNTY FOR THE EXECUTION AND DELIVERY OF THE
BOND PURCHASE AND EXCHANGE AGREEMENT;
AUTHORIZE THE EXECUTION AND DELIVERY OF AN
ESCROW DEPOSIT AGREEMENT AND APPOINTMENT OF AN
ESCROW AGENT THERETO; AND AUTHORIZE ALL
NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS - MOTION TO
APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS; SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER HALL – ADOPTED
MS. PATTERSON: Yes. Item 11D is a recommendation that
January 10, 2023
Page 139
the Board of County Commissioners, acting as ex-officio as the
governing board of the Collier County Water/Sewer District, adopt a
resolution accepting the proposal of JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A., to
purchase from Collier County Water/Sewer District a Series 2023
taxable bond in order to refund all of the District's Water and Sewer
Refunding Revenue Bonds, Series 2016, for net present value interest
savings; approve the form of a bond purchase and exchange
agreement with respect to the Series 2026 tax exempt bond; authorize
the issuance of a Collier County Water and Sewer District Refunding
Revenue Bond Series 2023 in the principal amount of not to exceed
$52 million and providing for the potential exchange for such Series
2023 bond for a Collier County Water and Sewer District Refunding
Revenue Bond, Series 2026, in 2026; delegate certain authority to the
Board Chairman and other appropriate officers of the county for the
execution and delivery of the bond purchase and exchange
agreement, authorize the execution and delivery of an escrow deposit
agreement and appointment of a new -- of an escrow agent thereto,
and authorize all necessary budget amendments.
Mr. Edward Finn, Deputy County Manager, is here to present or
answer questions.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Again, if there are no
questions or comments from the Commission, this is a good-news
item. It's a savings.
COMMISSIONER HALL: It's a no-brainer.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And I'll make a motion to
approve the Item 11D.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We've got a motion and a
second. All in favor?
January 10, 2023
Page 140
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MR. FINN: Mr. Chairman, if I may, if the Board would
indulge me just one second, just some words of thanks: Derek
Johnssen, finance director for the Clerk of Courts; Bond Counsel
Steve Miller; Financial Advisor Serio Masvidal; County Attorney
Klatzkow; Amia Curry; Chris Johnson; Susan Usher; the balance of
the finance committee; and Dr. Yilmaz from the PUD.
Thank you so much.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, Mr. Finn.
One of the things I want to say, especially since we have such a
large audience, and I've said it at meetings before, we don't take
lightly -- and, please, I hope you don't either -- thinking, wow, they
just passed something so quickly. We get this agenda well in
advance. All these people you're seeing here have been in our
offices over the last few days. We know the things on here that we
want to do a deep in that don't take a big, long presentation. We've
seen all the slides.
So, you know, for the people that maybe this is the first time
you've been in this room and say, wow, you know, at the drop of a
gavel they're spending millions and millions of dollars, Mr. Finn,
basically, and all the people he named spend an unbelievable amount
of time in our offices leading up to this meeting. So these are all
things that we have all done a deep dive in or were part of pushing
forward. So I don't know if any other commissioner wanted to say
January 10, 2023
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something.
Commissioner McDaniel, you're chomping at the bit.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, I'm not chomping at the
bit. I'm agreeing with you wholeheartedly. I mean, the first
paragraph in the agenda says it all. It's a refinance of 183 million
with a 27-plus million dollar savings to the community. I think, to
quote Commissioner Hall, it's a no-brainer.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong, I
think 11E.
Item #11E
A SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE MAJOR USER
AGREEMENT FOR DELIVERY AND REUSE OF IRRIGATION
QUALITY ("IQ") WATER WITH THE RIVIERA GOLF
CLUB/LUCKY TWO GOLF, LLC, TO PROVIDE A REVISED
TERMINATION DATE DUE TO FACILITY CLOSURE -
MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER KOWAL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HALL – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: Yes, that's right. 11E, formerly
Item 16C1. This item was continued from the June 28th, 2022, BCC
meeting and further continued from the September 13th, 2022, BCC
meeting. This is a recommendation to approve a second amendment
to the major user agreement for delivery and reuse of irrigation
quality water with the Riviera Golf Club/Lucky Two Golf, LLC, to
provide a revised termination date due to facility closure.
I will hand this over to County Attorney Klatzkow.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. I spoke with the County Manager,
because this is predominantly a legal issue. The bottom line is we
have a customer who no longer wants the service. We have a greater
January 10, 2023
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demand for the service than we have capacity so that the water will
be sold elsewhere.
So in events like this when a customer no longer wants the
water, we simply terminate the agreement, and then we go to the next
customer.
In this case I will note to the Board that you will get
consternation in the community because what the owner of the golf
course is doing is scorched earth. He's killing the golf course so that
when it comes to hear the rezone, he's going to say I can't run a golf
course; it's dead. That is what's going on here.
Having said that, that will be a consideration for you during the
rezone. The consideration here is a customer who no longer wants
the water. And, as a matter of business, we've always simply
terminated the agreements and sold the water to someone else.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Riviera Golf Estates was in
District 1 before the rezone, so I'm very close to the folks there, and I
know Commissioner Kowal is now.
You know, I asked a lot of these same questions. You know,
sometimes we're voting on things here that it's not illegal or immoral
or unethical. We don't necessarily love it, but is it illegal for
somebody to say they no longer want to water their golf course?
They'll still mow it; they'll still maintain it and whatnot.
Do we have the ability to say, too bad, you have to maintain it?
And as much as we might not like it, I mean, we might hate it, we
want to support the citizens who live on that course and they want to
see greenery and landscape. All the answers that came back to me
over these last few days when I was doing a dive into it is we really
don't have that ability. If he decides he doesn't want water anymore,
he or she, and we don't have any recourse.
So I throw that out there to see if I heard that right,
Mr. Klatzkow, or if there's anything you want to add or we have
January 10, 2023
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anything at our discretion.
MR. KLATZKOW: I think you put it better than I did.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do I have any comments from any
commissioner? Commissioner McDaniel, go ahead, sir.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I guess this, then, bodes,
maybe we ought to hear from the residents, the president of the
association, because the contract that we have is with the developer
that owns the golf course. And if the residents of the community are
willing to assume the contract, can that legally be done, and pay that
bill? Because I can't -- I can't force somebody to buy our -- I don't
think we can. I can't force them to buy our IQ water. And if the
residents are not interested in having the sprinklers cut off or, you
know, not interested in having the discontinuance of the access to the
IQ water, then, if they'll pay for it, then I would certainly support
that. But I can't force the person that owns the land to -- you'll get
your chance to speak. I'm sharing with you my concerns from what
had to have --
MR. KLATZKOW: If the owner of the golf course would
allow the residents to do that, then yes, but it is still the owner's
property, not the residents'.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: Now, the residents could purchase the
property, in which case they'll have control over it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Then they've got to get in
line in order to be able to have access, theoretically.
MR. KLATZKOW: I've spoken with Mr. Yilmaz, and they
will get priority treatment if this golf course comes back on.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Gotcha. Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall, and then,
Commissioner Kowal, you're on deck.
January 10, 2023
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COMMISSIONER HALL: Yeah. Is the developer under
obligation to keep it mowed and keep it looking nice?
MR. KLATZKOW: Everybody in the county --
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: -- has that obligation.
COMMISSIONER HALL: If he doesn't want to water it, that,
to me -- the assumption was made earlier that if he doesn't want to
water the golf course, that that's indicative of us approving his -- or
wanting to go forward with his development, and I think that's a bad
assumption on this board's part. But what we're deciding on now is
whether the guy wants to pay for water or not pay for the water. He
still has to maintain it. I just wanted to clear that up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. Commissioner Hall kind
of touched on where I was going with it, too, I mean, because we're
all liable for our own property and the condition of it. And I know
myself has been warned I have my grass a half inch too high in my
yard, and Code Enforcement doesn't have a problem calling me and
telling me that.
So that being said, him being the owner of the golf course, or
whoever owns it now, they should still fall under the same standard
as everybody else with maintaining that property. And if it gets to a
point it gets too overgrown, then it might become an issue with water
drainage and runoff and things like that, because it will impede -- it
will impede water, and then it will direct it where it's not supposed to
go.
So I think this is something, as a county, and this is something
where the Code Enforcement should take a close look at. And if he's
willing to forego buying water from us, he's probably going to be
buying it a lot more -- spending a lot more trucking in to maintain
that property in a condition that will, you know, be within the
January 10, 2023
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guidelines of our code and the maintenance of that property, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, I think here's the issue: He
can mow dead grass as long as he wants, and if I don't mow -- if I
don't water my lawn, I actually don't have to mow it very much
because it will just die. And so the citizens have a point that -- their
concern is that if he doesn't -- you know, he owns a golf course, so
it's not the same as, you know, having a backtrack piece of property
that you just let die, and it's sight unseen.
So I think their concerns are valid that he's going to let his golf
course die. Over time he may run a mower over it; he's basically
going to mow hay. And then their concern is that he's marching
towards a position of even if somebody was interested in buying the
course, buying a course that needs to be totally resodded is
probably -- becomes a lot less of an investment or an enticement.
And so, then, you know, if you sort of start to connect the dots where
the citizens are, they feel like the overarching final decision becomes
an automatic rezone, which I agree with Commissioner Hall, we
decide that, not the property owner.
But there is some concern that, you know, yeah, he'll maintain
the golf course, but it's just going to be a bunch of dead grass. And I
had the same concern, Commissioner Kowal, which was, when you
talk about runoff, if you have live grass, it absorbs, you know, heavy
rains and whatnot. If he lets it go and turns it basically into asphalt
that he mows once every six months, there could be some significant,
you know, flooding problems.
Having said that, I think our County Attorney would say, you
still can't make him water his grass, unless I hear something different.
MR. KLATZKOW: No, he might have a code enforcement
issue. But this would not be the first golf course, by the way, that
went dead in the county. It happens. In fact, the Board had this
discussion about the Golden Gate Golf Course, what would happen,
January 10, 2023
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what would the cost be to get it back up.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. I just want to respond. I
believe we're both in agreeance. And, believe me, I understand what
he's trying to do. I understand his endgame with the whole idea of
not taking the water and letting it die.
But, once again, you know, we're a government entity that sits
up here, and we're not, like, somebody who's going to -- like
Obamacare where we're going to force you to buy something. We
can't force him to buy water, you know, by no means, but I think
there's other means through what we already have in our Code
Enforcement to hold him to a certain standard over time that maybe
will be more beneficial for you as a community that there is some
sort of maintenance done to it, and it is kept in some sort of condition
where it doesn't become a problem.
So, you know, it is what it is. We're not going to try to -- you
know, he's not going to dictate what we're going to do when it comes
time to making a decision on that property, you know, and we're not
going to play his games, let's just say that. So I don't know if I can
put it any clearer than that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't know. Troy, I thought you
had -- do we have any public speakers?
MR. MILLER: I was confused. You heard from them earlier
this morning. Did you want to hear from them again now?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I think we do, yeah.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Tricia Campbell and Scott Soderstrum.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I cut Scott off so I could give
him a chance to have his full three minutes, so I certainly would like
to.
January 10, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We'll go ladies first.
MS. CAMPBELL: Oh, thank you. Tricia Campbell,
president, Riviera Golf Estates. And I'm just going to through my
whole thing again for my concerns for my community.
Thank you for allowing me to speak on behalf of Riviera Golf
Estates, 690 homes which directly abut Riviera Golf Course, which
have utilized this contracted county IQ water rights as a means to
maintain the grass and other vegetation on the land for over
seven -- over the past seven years, plus there is a large amount of
endangered and protected species that very -- that's very important
that could be affected by lack of water.
On behalf of my community, I wanted to make this clear despite
what the background information provided to the Commissioners
may suggest that our community objects to the termination of the IQ
water rights associated with this property. We made communication
to County Manager, County Attorney, and Commissioner -- former
commissioner of District 4 by email September 4th, 2022. Our
association received notice of this public posting today.
As you all know, or may know, the golf course property has
been subject to intent-to-convert application process during 2022,
which -- process to rezone the land for high-density residential
development of over 380 homes on this property, which will serve as
both our existing -- which will be served as both our existing
drainage system and floodplain for the past 50 years and has
successfully protected our HOA properties from flood damage from
Wilma, Irma, and most recently Ian. It is a very crucial element to
our community's safety.
I have been advised by the staff and the water-use group that a
cancellation of this contract means that future owners will have to
reapply and will fall to the bottom of the waiting list.
We, therefore, ask you, as the ultimate decision
January 10, 2023
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makers -- decision-making body for the county, you may be asked to
render a decision on a potential rezoning application to not take this
symbolic step in favor of the future development of the land to
maintain the neutral position of maintaining all current conditions on
the land until the proposed future property use is fully evaluated by
county staff and the Planning Commission.
We've -- I'm sorry. My voice is gone here. We respectfully
request that the Board table this IQ water-use termination request at
the present time and, therefore, assure the objectivity of any rezoning
process going forward. To do this will not make it more difficult for
a third-party purchaser of the property to obtain irrigation services
following such a purchase.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir?
MS. CAMPBELL: Thank you.
MR. SODERSTRUM: Thanks, Commissioners, for letting me
talk. My name is Scott Soderstrum. I am a resident at Riviera Golf
Estates. More importantly, I am a civil engineer with over 40 years
of experience, retired officer of the U.S. Naval Civil Engineering
Corps, and a licensed Florida professional engineer.
The fact is is if this irrigation contract is canceled, the grass is
dying right now. The trees are in distress. The trees will die.
Fact: You will have -- the ground will become more pervious,
and you're going to increase the drain-off, which is going to
compromise the drainage system of the area and increase flooding.
Fact is that when the grass dies, all you have left is sediment.
When you have more sediment, you get erosion. When you have
more erosion, you're going to be plugging up the detention ponds, the
culverts, the swales, and the drainage system. Again, increasing
flooding.
Fact: If all this dies, which is dying right now, you're going to
have fire problems. If you get a fire in this area on this golf course
January 10, 2023
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field, you've got surrounding condominiums and houses that are in
danger.
So, in conclusion, unless there is a compelling reason to cancel
this contract immediately, I graciously request that the Board wait
until the future use of this property is settled.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, any other speakers?
MR. MILLER: That's it, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I guess my -- do we have
staff -- county staff that wanted to -- I see people walking back and
forth. Was somebody wanting to make a comment from the county
staff?
MS. CURRY: Amia Curry, director of Utilities Finance. And
I had nothing more to add than Mr. Klatzkow has already stated.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: A question that I have is, so if he's
not watering the course now and then it becomes worse, and the
engineer here made some great points, it becomes a fire hazard and
whatnot, does that violate code? If you have dead -- you know, if I
don't water my front lawn and my whole front lawn is just dead grass,
do I get a ticket? Is that against code? Does my grass have to be a
certain color of green? Anybody? Mr. French? Anybody educate
us here?
It might sound like sort of an elementary question, but the
bottom line, does he have the right to not water his course? And he
continues to mow the dead grass so we can't write him up for four
feet of grass, I realize the code part would be if he just walked away
from it and it became just weeds, he can't do that. But if it's just
dead grass, is that illegal, immoral, and unethical? Does the county
have recourse?
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Commissioner. For the record,
my name is Jamie French. I'm your department head for Growth
January 10, 2023
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Management/Community Development.
I've been in contact with our Code Enforcement director who
also falls under our purview.
There is an ongoing code case just this past November in the
swales. What your code dictates -- and, again, let me just -- not to
elongate this, but to paint a picture. This golf course has existed
since the '70s, so it predates any zoning commitments.
And so I'll rely on Mr. Klatzkow to help me out here, but we've
got no commitments here. There's no -- as far as we know, there's
no easements that are recorded for community or this type of use. It
is privately held property. He can allow the weeds to grow up to
18-inch. Anything above 18 inches, we would open a code case. In
fact, we opened one back in August, and he quickly replied; he
mowed the grass. But there's no requirement to keep the sprinklers
on.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The concern becomes, then, if you
don't -- first of all, I think if you own a golf course, you know, it
doesn't have to be in PGA quality, but the expectation is that, you
know, at least it looks aesthetically pleasing to the eye, especially to
people that live on the golf course. Now, that may not be legal, and
so -- or, you know, it's not legal, and that's sort of the rub.
But I do have concern that, you know, you don't water that grass
on the course, it becomes asphalt, basically, and then we have a
heavy rain, and the runoff becomes significant.
The part about the environmental concerns and the animals and
whatnot, although that falls on a sympathetic ear, I still don't think it's
illegal, and we're trying to figure out what we have at our disposal
here. I'm sort of hearing a whole bunch of nothing as long as he
keeps the golf course mowed to 18 inches, which is unfortunate to
hear.
I'm sorry, sir.
January 10, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I lit up while our speakers
were up here, and I have a question for them.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I didn't see anything here. Yeah,
you must have a dead button. Nothing's up here. Well, I'm still
talking. I'll get to you.
So -- but if you talked with our -- with Code Enforcement, what
I'm hearing is, you can buy a golf course, keep the grass at 18 inches,
keep a closed sign on it, not play -- you know, not allow anybody to
play golf, and it's not illegal, immoral, or unethical, and he's not
going to get any kind of violation, you know, correct, Mr. French,
from what you're hearing from our Code Enforcement?
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir. It is a -- it would be -- it would not
be considered a valid code case. It's not something that we would
take action on predominantly because, as I said before, the code
allows for up to 18 inches. This predates your zoning.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay.
MR. FRENCH: So there's no commitment to maintain this
other than what your Land Development Code requires or your
property maintenance standards requires, which is 18 inches.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel, go
ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, please. And, Pat.
MS. CAMPBELL: Tricia.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Tricia?
MS. CAMPBELL: Tricia.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How do you do?
My question for you is, as the president of the homeowners
association, have you met with the owner of the golf course and
offered to take on the contract?
MS. CAMPBELL: He lives in Minnesota --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes or no.
January 10, 2023
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MS. CAMPBELL: -- but I have -- he has been in touch with
me about the swales, but I've written him three letters, and he hasn't
answered me.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Because the only way we can
support this is if there's -- and I'm not sure that we can -- we can't.
We've already pretty much been told that we can't support forcing
this man to buy our water. We can't force him to do anything other
than what our code currently exists. And without a commitment
from somebody to pay that water bill, he would have to consent to it,
and we couldn't legally oblige him to accept your agreement, even if
your homeowners association were willing to pay that expense. And
I was just wondering if you had had that conversation with him. I
can understand the folks that live there not wanting to have the golf
course go away, but we -- from what I'm hearing, we can't force this
on that property owner.
MS. CAMPBELL: The property is currently closed.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand. That wasn't
the --
MS. CAMPBELL: And he -- I have written three letters to
him, in disagreement with him letting the reclaimed water go, so --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand.
MS. CAMPBELL: -- I have not received anything from him.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I actually have a question for
Mr. French, if you don't mind. Do you know or maybe you don't,
but do you know -- the retention ponds that are on the golf course
theirselves, is that an integral part of the community's stormwater
runoff and retention of that type of infrastructure?
MR. FRENCH: Yes, sir. I would refer to Ms. Cook or
Ms. Scott with regards to the stormwater design and development
January 10, 2023
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standards but, yes, that community, it is -- it is all-encompassing, let's
just say, with regards -- there's a dependency for that community to
drain to that land so that there's -- it's part of their stormwater plan
that we're aware of. But, again, this is a very, very old community,
dated, so it predates many of our design standards, our requirements
as they sit today that are brought forward to you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I understand that, but can
somebody intentionally disrupt that stormwater drain system or at
least the way it's designed to be worked by not maintaining canals or
the swales that lead up to those retention ponds?
MR. FRENCH: Outside of the code as it's written today, he
couldn't put any type of berms or couldn't prevent that water from
coming over, but the natural grasses that exist even at 18 inches
would not typically affect that. But the maintaining of those ponds,
lakes, stormwater systems, they could very well have an impact, and
we would rely on our stormwater staff to bring that back to you.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. Because in a way, I
mean, one works with the other. So when he does water the grass
and does stuff like that, it actually keeps a steady flow of water
through these trenches and into these ponds to keep it a maintainable
type of structure that this community depends on, and then if he's
intentionally trying to stop that, then he's also intentionally trying to
stop our ability to drain the stormwater drainage system through this
community and put it somewhere it's safe. So sometimes intentional
actions, you know, we've got to dig a little deeper.
MR. FRENCH: And, again, sir, we have been working with
this. We have met with Patricia a number of times, I know, on a
couple other projects in the community as well as with this
developer/landowner for multiple -- for a number of years now. We
understand what their intentions are. At this point what we
understand it to be is that they no longer want to be a golf course.
January 10, 2023
Page 154
They're going to maintain it at the minimum code standard, and in the
event that it causes an issue for the community, then we would do
further action, lawful action that we would bring through your Code
Enforcement Board or your Special Magistrate to take action at that
point. But at this point, Code Enforcement, our staff does not have a
position other than the fact that they are -- every time -- and we've
received one, as I said, back in August. It was closed immediately.
And now we have one on the swales, as Patricia mentioned, that we
are working, and in the event that it creates a life-safety issue, we will
take it to immediate hearing to our OSM where action will be taken
to include -- by the way, we do maintain a landscape or a mowing
contractor for many of those blighted type properties where if we had
to take action we would, and then we would just add that on to either
the assessment or to their fine for the hard costs.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you so much. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Yeah, what I'm hearing
here, Mr. French, is that even if we vote here to terminate the water
agreement he has with the county, and that's basically, you know, in a
nutshell, what we're voting on, let's say we vote not to do that, not to
terminate it, he can still not water anything.
MR. FRENCH: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So what we're -- what's before us
today isn't forcing him to keep it as a green golf course. It's
basically voting to turn off the -- turn off the switch or not. And
even if we vote to leave the water line open, I guess, for lack of a
better term, he still doesn't have to turn on the sprinklers, and he can
keep it at 18 inches, and as long as he maintains it -- I mean, I'm just
summarizing. I know it might sound repetitive, but I think that's
what I'm hearing here, right?
MR. KLATZKOW: He's already shut off -- shut off the water.
January 10, 2023
Page 155
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right.
MR. FRENCH: That's right.
MR. KLATZKOW: This is just --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We have other customers that
want to buy the water.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely, yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's the reason for it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But whether -- if we all rallied
around these citizens and said, no, we're not going to support this
here, nothing's going to change at the golf course, and there's nothing
that we're going to be able to do to enforce it.
So do I have any other comments, anyone?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do I have a motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Well, I tell you, before I say that,
just because we had a long discussion, Ms. Patterson, just for clarity
can you read what we're about to vote on? It was 16C1.
MS. PATTERSON: Yep. This is a recommendation to
approve a second amendment to the major user agreement for
delivery and reuse of irrigation quality water with the Riviera Golf
Club/Lucky Two Golf Course, LLC, to provide a revised termination
date due to facility closure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do I have a motion to approve?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
January 10, 2023
Page 156
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
MS. PATTERSON: Okay. Ms. Patterson, I think we are
moving to 12A.
Item #12A
RESOLUTION 2023-10: REPORT TO THE BOARD BY THE
COUNTY ATTORNEY ON THE ISSUE OF PAYING FULL
APPRAISED VALUE FOR CONSERVATION COLLIER
PROPERTIES - MOTION TO APPROVE WITH THE
CLARIFICATION OF THE LANGUAGE FOR PURCHASES NOT
TO EXCEED APPRAISED VALUE BY COMMISSIONER HALL;
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS – APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: We're going to 12 -- yep. I'm sorry, 12A.
This is a -- no, we're going to -- yeah, this is a report to the Board by
the County Attorney on the issue of paying a full appraised value for
Conservation Collier properties.
MR. KLATZKOW: Commissioner, at your last meeting, there
was a Board discussion as to why are we paying full appraised value
for these things. Can't we pay less? This is the report back to you
saying that you do have a resolution that requires staff to offer the
property at appraised value.
The Board has never weighed in on this policy as far as I can
tell. You just -- I don't know if it was a staff initiative or CCLAC
initiative, but it is a pure policy decision. Three votes, and you can
change the policy.
January 10, 2023
Page 157
I emailed you separately a proposed resolution which would do
this, if that's what you wish to do today, or we can bring it back for a
future meeting.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I think that
what should have been intended, and certainly what I thought the rule
was, is that the county could not pay more than the appraised value.
And so I think the resolution of this should be to authorize payment
not to exceed the appraised value. There are a couple different
situations where you have two appraisals and possibly a third
appraisal, and then you average some prices, but not to -- I think staff
should be able to negotiate a lower price if there's some issues with
the property that would warrant a lower price, but to say you have to
offer the appraised value, I think, is not what -- I certainly wouldn't
have intended that.
So I would suggest that the language -- the County Attorney
come back with language that simply says that the County's not to
pay more than the appraised value, and give staff the ability to
negotiate, give us the ability to negotiate a lower price.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, and I agree. I actually
have notes on that that we should pay a negotiated price not to exceed
the appraised price, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So I move to adopt the amended
resolution that we all received that says the terminology that
staff -- the offer price would be up to and not to exceed --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll second that.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- the appraisal.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We have public comment.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I just -- I want to, just for
January 10, 2023
Page 158
clarity, say what Commissioner Saunders said, and I look for your
guidance on clarity, is I think the County Attorney gave us exactly
what you said in his proposed agreement, which was the new
language would be not to exceed, and the latitude we would have in
there -- and maybe it could even -- you know, I wrote on the side
here, is this as strong as it could be? Because I think, at least my
hope was that by amending the language, it would give the latitude in
those unique cases, and I gave an example of a landowner that owns a
$20 million house on a piece of property, then owns the lot right next
to it that has some of those conservation type things on it, and the
appraised value for that property comes in at $5 million, but that's a
unique circumstance where, yeah, we can just shut up and pay
5 million, and I bet, you know, he laughs all the way to the bank and
says, thanks very much, and now I have a permanent park next to my
house for the rest of eternity.
And I think in that particular case, that's where we go to the
landowner and go, you're really benefiting from us having
Conservation Collier buy this lot. You'll never have a house built
here that will block your view, you'll never have a noisy neighbor and
a whole bunch of other things. So in this particular case, although
the appraised value is $5 million, we'd like to negotiate what we think
would be actual fair value because you benefit greatly from it.
And then the secondary positive effect of that, if we bought the
lot at a cheaper rate, is it gives us money to possibly buy other lots
because we're not overpaying for certain lots or just paying the
appraised value. That was the example that I used. I think that's not
going to be the norm, but I already know there are some cases where
appraised value was paid, and the neighbors or the next-door
neighbor owned that property and benefited forever from, you know,
having a nice conservation lot and no blockage of their view and
noisy neighbors and all those things and, yet, they got full market
January 10, 2023
Page 159
value or appraised value where we probably could have -- I bet they
would have paid a lot less, and we could have, you know, better
utilized taxpayer dollars to buy more lots or just save more out of that
Conservation Collier fund.
So I don't know if my colleagues think that the language in
here -- I agree with the motion, that our County Attorney did change
this language to make that adjustment, but is it strong enough in there
to basically dictate that we're looking for the folks who manage this
program in those unique cases to negotiate a bit more, and not just
say, well, we didn't pay more than appraised value, but my argument
would be, wow, but we could have paid so much less if you would
have done a deep dive and realized we're paying the next-door
neighbor for that lot.
I see we've got some public comment. Let's go to public
comment, Mr. Miller.
MR. MILLER: We have one registered speaker today, sir, Brad
Cornell.
MR. CORNELL: Good afternoon, Commissioners, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this.
I'm Brad Cornell, and I'm here on behalf of Audubon Western
Everglades and Audubon Florida that owns Corkscrew Swamp
Sanctuary.
This is an important issue. And as the County Attorney said,
you haven't had the chance to discuss the issue of negotiation versus
straight-out offering the appraised value. The reason I'm here is to
support the existing policy in your two versions of the resolutions
that basically direct staff to offer appraised value, and the reason is,
notwithstanding, Mr. Chair, what you just gave as an example of
somebody owning a lot next door, that's a relatively rare
circumstance. There is -- there's a couple of reasons that you want to
consider. One is that when we look at urban lots, like on Marco
January 10, 2023
Page 160
Island where something like you just described could occur, what
we're looking for and the program directs and dictates is only
conservation lots. So those conservation lots have listed species on
them on Marco Island, for instance. Bald eagles' nests, gopher
tortoises, lots of gopher tortoise, which are a threatened species.
Burrowing owl, another threatened species. Those are the only lots
that are being looked at Marco Island in urban areas. And previous
boards have repeatedly asked Conservation Collier to prioritize urban
areas where people live. When you do that, you're getting smaller
parcels at a higher price. So we've got to recognize what the cost is
for getting these urban conservation lots. Again, they are
conservation lots for listed species.
The second thing is that we make people wait a really long time
when they apply to sell to Conservation Collier. It's a long process.
We're trying to speed that up. Your staff have come up with some
good ideas, but it's still a long process. So it's, I think, a little unfair
to want to go below the market price on a deal when we're asking
them to wait a really long time, as long as a year sometimes, and
that's been the standard. And so I'm not sure that's a fair thing.
And the third thing is to look at the market and, really, we have
a real problem competing with the market. The market is very
aggressive, as you all know, and so it's going to be difficult to find
good conservation pieces when developers are going to be able to
snap them up much faster at a higher price.
So for all those reasons, I think we need to look at keeping it as
a very simple, straightforward offer the appraised value. It's fair
right down the middle. If they say no, so be it. If they say yes, then
it's fair. We're not being -- we're not being taken for a ride, as you
might put it. I think it's -- I think it's definitely a fair way to do it.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So here's where I disagree with
January 10, 2023
Page 161
you. It is a rare instance. I want verbiage in a document here that
covers all instances. You know, I have a friend that's very
environmentally conscious and had been sending me some notes in
preparation for this thing. You know, we don't want to have so
much latitude in the verbiage that we lose out on all these lots.
I think what Mr. Klatzkow wrote in here gives us latitude, but it
doesn't mandate that we lowball everybody. And I would -- I think
we have missed out on those rare -- and you're talking -- Brad, you're
talking millions of dollars here. So you know what, if there was a
rare instance every few years -- we sit in here sometimes for three
hours talking about $10,000 and should we spend it or not.
And I want verbiage that covers every instance, even the rare
ones, but I think the folks that run this program are astute enough to
make sure that if there is a lot that is so valuable from an
environmental standpoint that we're going to lose out on it to a
developer or we have somebody here that's not willing to negotiate,
we wouldn't be as irresponsible enough to sit on this language and go,
you know what, you know, he wouldn't -- we gave him a lowball, and
he wouldn't take it so, you know, we lost the lot.
I think the default would always be we decide the priority,
working with the team, of the lots and something that's on the Priority
List A. I don't think that's where we save a nickel. But if -- but if it
is one of those rare instances -- you know, much like when you, you
know, buy a car -- I mean, if you want the Honda Civic, you know,
then you want it, but you don't walk in and say, oh, I'll pay full price.
You know, you offer $5,000 less, then they say how about -- how
about 3,000, you know, less, and then you come to an agreement.
I think we need to be smart businesspeople here at the county
and stop just saying, well, here's the two bids, they're both overpriced
but, you know, the verbiage says we have to do it. I think we need
to start running this program a lot smarter.
January 10, 2023
Page 162
Some of the conversation prior to this was that, you know, we
weren't trying to lose out on -- we're trying to make this
environmental program stronger, because the example I gave, it
might be rare, but if the appraisal value was $5 million on that lot
next to Mr. Johnson who's going to benefit, and we tell him, hey, you
know, you're going to benefit, why don't we split the difference, and
we'll give you 2.5, and he says yes, guess what we get to do with that
2.5 we save? Buy something else that saves a lot that maybe you
wouldn't have gotten because we ran out of money.
So I think this gives us a more dynamic approach, but it doesn't
shoehorn us into looking for all of the cheap deals. I think the
language Mr. Klatzkow put in gives us the latitude now in those rare
instances. And some of those rare instances, you know, were
million-dollar deals.
Commissioner McDaniel.
But thank you, and thank you for what you do. We're paddling
in the same direction. You know I love you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Agreed.
It's not just the new properties that we have coming before us.
This has been going on for quite some time. Our -- my -- our staff
shared with me several instances in some of the previous purchases
where there were opportunities of consideration of funds paid, terms
negotiated. A perfect example in my world was the acquisition of
the Pepper Ranch. We paid the appraised value on Pepper Ranch
and let the property owners keep the credits that were generated in
the RLSA, which they were allowed to sell off to another developer.
So I think this offers us an opportunity to negotiate. It doesn't
preclude us from making purchases. The way I understand this is
if -- you know, ultimately these offers are going to come to the Board
irrespective, but we're going to have more information as to what has
transpired in advance.
January 10, 2023
Page 163
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't see anybody else lit up.
County Manager, why don't you read what we are about to vote
on.
MS. PATTERSON: This was a report on -- I'm sorry, I just lost
my place. Here we go. This is a report to the Board by the County
Attorney on the issue of paying full appraised value for Conservation
Collier properties. I know that County Attorney Klatzkow has
provided you a resolution with the option to adopt that resolution or
bring it back at a future date. So we'll leave that to the Board if
you're satisfied with what he's prepared.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And what he put in here was very
subtle. It crossed out just a few words and then added "shall be
determined by the staff but shall be no more than the appraised
value," and there was a couple of places where, you know, he made
that annotation. So I don't know if any of the commissioners have a
comment. It looks like Commissioner Saunders is about to hit -- go
ahead, sir.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. Well, I would make
the motion to approve the --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's already been done.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep, yep. I think we had a
motion to approve and second, then we got into some conversation.
So is there a change?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So we have a motion to approve.
We have a second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
January 10, 2023
Page 164
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
Okay. I think we're at the magic hour, right?
MS. PATTERSON: We are.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: My calculations show that we
would normally take a break here at 3:10. I think we're going to take
the break now. I think it would give the Isles of Capri team that's
here a chance to at least have the time to organize, reorganize, keep
everything the same. It will give us a chance to sort of reset here,
and let's come back here at -- I'm going to say 3:20. And the reason
I'm giving some time, people are trying to use the bathroom as well.
And so, you know, we're not normally set up for a full room. So let's
resume at 3:20.
(A brief recess was had from 3:00 p.m. to 3:20 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'd ask everybody to take
their seats, please. Thank you.
Okay. County Manager, I think we are moving into 9A,
correct?
MS. PATTERSON: We are.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'll turn it over to you. I
know we've got this housekeeping business you're going to read, and
we're going to swear people in before we got on to presentations.
Item #9A
ORDINANCE 2023-02: DENY AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NUMBER 2004-41, AS AMENDED, THE COLLIER
COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, BY CHANGING THE
ZONING CLASSIFICATION OF THE HEREIN DESCRIBED
January 10, 2023
Page 165
REAL PROPERTY FROM A COMMERCIAL INTERMEDIATE
DISTRICT (C-3) ZONING DISTRICT TO A MIXED USE
PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (MPUD) ZONING DISTRICT
FOR THE PROJECT TO BE KNOWN AS ISLES OF CAPRI
MPUD, TO ALLOW CONSTRUCTION OF MIXED-USE
DEVELOPMENT UP TO 168 FEET IN ACTUAL HEIGHT
INCLUDING A MAXIMUM OF 108 MULTI-FAMILY
DWELLING UNITS, UP TO 10,000 SQUARE FEET AND 200
SEATS OF RESTAURANT AND MEMBERSHIP CLUBS, A
MARINA INCLUDING UP TO 64 WET SLIPS, A 258-UNIT DRY
BOAT STORAGE FACILITY, AND A SHIPS STORE AND
DOCKMASTER’S OFFICE LIMITED TO 1,000 SQUARE FEET,
AND 6,000 SQUARE FEET OF GENERAL OFFICES, PLUS
ACCESSORY INDOOR AND OUTDOOR RECREATION USES
AND PARKING STRUCTURES WITHOUT LIMITATION. THE
SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON THE ISLES OF CAPRI
ON BOTH NORTH AND SOUTH OF CAPRI BOULEVARD,
CONSISTING OF 5.32± ACRES; PROVIDING FOR REPEAL OF
RESOLUTION NO. 92-588 RELATING TO SETBACK
VARIANCES AND RESOLUTION NO. 93-370 RELATING TO A
PARKING VARIANCE FOR BOAT SLIPS; AND BY PROVIDING
AN EFFECTIVE DATE. [PL20210002314] (THIS IS A
COMPANION TO ITEM #9B, GMPA-PL20200002313 ISLE OF
CAPRI MIXED USE INFILL SUBDISTRICT GROWTH
MANAGEMENT PLAN AMENDMENT) - MOTION TO
APPROVE BOTH A & B WITH THE FOLLOWING
STIPULATIONS: STIPULATED HIGHT – 122 FT; UNITS – 80;
AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMPONENT OF $5000/UNIT AT
C.O.; FLOW CULVERTS; ENHANCEMENT OF SEWER LINES
(IF THE MONEY ISN’T EXPENDED ON THE CULVERTS OR
ON THE SEWER LINES THE MONEY REVERTS TO THE
January 10, 2023
Page 166
AFFORDABLE HOUSING TRUST FUND) BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL: SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO –
APPROVED
Item #9B
ORDINANCE 2023-03: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NO. 89-05, AS AMENDED, THE COLLIER
COUNTY GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN BY CHANGING
THE LAND USE DESIGNATION OF PROPERTY TO URBAN,
URBAN MIXED USE DISTRICT, ISLES OF CAPRI MIXED USE
INFILL SUBDISTRICT TO ALLOW CONSTRUCTION OF A
MAXIMUM OF 108 RESIDENTIAL UNITS, UP TO 10,000
SQUARE FEET AND 200 SEATS OF RESTAURANT AND
MEMBERSHIP CLUBS, A MARINA INCLUDING UP TO 64
WET SLIPS, A 258-UNIT DRY BOAT STORAGE FACILITY
AND A SHIPS STORE, RETAIL AND/OR DOCKMASTER’S
OFFICE LIMITED TO 1,000 SQUARE FEET AND 6,000 SQUARE
FEET OF C-3, COMMERCIAL INTERMEDIATE DISTRICT
USES. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON THE
ISLES OF CAPRI ON BOTH NORTH AND SOUTH OF CAPRI
BOULEVARD, CONSISTING OF 5.32± ACRES; AND
FURTHERMORE, DIRECTING TRANSMITTAL OF THE
ADOPTED AMENDMENT TO THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT
OF ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY; PROVIDING FOR
SEVERABILITY AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
[PL20210002313] (ADOPTION HEARING) (THIS IS A
COMPANION TO ITEM #9A, PL20210002314) - MOTION TO
APPROVE BOTH A & B WITH THE FOLLOWING
STIPULATIONS: STIPULATED HIGHT – 122 FT; UNITS – 80;
AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMPONENT OF $5000/UNIT AT
January 10, 2023
Page 167
C.O.; FLOW CULVERTS; ENHANCEMENT OF SEWER LINES
(IF THE MONEY ISN’T EXPENDED ON THE CULVERTS OR
ON THE SEWER LINES THE MONEY REVERTS TO THE
AFFORDABLE HOUSING TRUST FUND) BY COMMISSIONER
MCDANIEL: SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOCASTRO –
APPROVED
MS. PATTERSON: I will. So 9A and 9B are companion
items. They have somewhat long, but shortened, titles, thanks to
Mr. Bosi. I'll read them both in, court reporter will swear people in,
and we'll get to the ex parte.
Item 9A. This item requires that all participants be sworn in
and ex parte disclosure be provided by commission members.
This is a recommendation to deny an ordinance amending
Ordinance No. 2004-41, as amended, the Collier County Land
Development Code by changing the zoning classification of the
herein described real property from a commercial intermediate
district, C-3 zoning district, to a Mixed-Use Planned Unit
Development zoning district for the project to be known as Isles of
Capri MPUD; to allow construction of mixed-use development up to
168 feet in actual height, including a maximum of 108 multi-family
dwelling units up to 10,000 square feet, and 200 seats of restaurant
and membership clubs, a marina, including up to 64 wet slips, a
258-unit dry boat storage facility, and a ship store and dockmaster's
office limited to 1,000 square feet, and 6,000 square feet of general
offices, plus accessory indoor and outdoor recreation uses and
parking structures without limitation.
The subject property is located on the Isles of Capri on both
north and south of Capri Boulevard consisting of 5.32 plus-or-minus
acres, providing for repeal of Resolution No. 92-588 relating to
setback variances, and Resolution No. 93-370 relating to a parking
January 10, 2023
Page 168
variance for boat slips and by providing an effective date.
Its companion Item 9B is a recommendation to approve an
ordinance amending Ordinance No. 89-05, as amended, the Collier
County Growth Management Plan by changing the land-use
designation of property to Urban, Urban Mixed-Use District, Isles of
Capri, Mixed-Use Infill Subdistrict to allow construction of a
maximum of 108 residential units up to 10,000 square feet and 200
seats of restaurant and membership clubs, a marina including up to 64
wet slips, a 258-unit dry boat storage facility, and a ship store, retail
and/or dockmaster's office limited to 1,000 square feet and 6,000
square feet of C-3 commercial intermediate district uses.
The subject project is located -- property is located on the Isles
of Capri on both north and -- both north and south of Capri
Boulevard consisting of 5.32 plus-or-minus acres and, furthermore,
directing transmittal of the adopted amendment to the Florida
Department of Economic Opportunity, providing for severability, and
providing for an effective date.
Terri, if you want to swear -- do the swearing in.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Anybody who's going to speak,
please stand to be sworn in.
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to ex parte
from the commissioners, please.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'll just go down the line
and see if you have any ex parte disclosures. Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. I have meetings,
correspondence, meetings, and calls.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Ditto on that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: All of it.
January 10, 2023
Page 169
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, meetings,
correspondence, and emails.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And myself as well, across
the board.
Before we jump into the applicant's presentation, is there
anything I'm missing before we jump into that?
MS. PATTERSON: (Shakes head.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I just wanted to say, we don't
always get a large room like this, because every day we're not voting
on big projects like this.
I just want to say, professionally, we're all -- we've all done an
unbelievable amount of work to research this, as you have as well.
Please shut off your cell phones, okay. Let's be professional. As
Commissioner McDaniel had said, you know, it's our time and your
time. So if somebody said something more eloquently or just as
eloquently as you wanted to say it, I'll be the first one to say you still
get your three minutes at the podium. Nobody's here to silence
anybody. But also, too, sometimes quantity doesn't mean quality.
Let's not have applause and cheering and jeering. You know, I
know all of you, okay, or, you know, personally a lot of you. Let's
be proud of this process today regardless of the outcome, but how we
conduct ourselves.
At times, I will tell you -- most of you haven't been in here at
those times where it was a disappointing atmosphere for the
community. I believe in this group so much regardless of how this
outcome comes.
So let's get through this professionally and give it the respect it
deserves. And we are here to listen across the board to everyone,
and we will get started with the applicant.
Mr. Yovanovich.
January 10, 2023
Page 170
MR. YOVANOVICH: Good afternoon. For the record, Rich
Yovanovich on behalf of the --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Yovanovich, would you come
just a little closer to the mic.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Is that better?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Perfect. Thank you, sir.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Again, Rich Yovanovich on behalf of
the applicant and owner for these two petitions.
With me as part of the project team -- not all will be presenting
but will be here to answer any questions -- Aubrey Ferrao and Joe
Parisi are both here from the owner and applicant. Myself, I will be
doing the presentation as to the existing Growth Management Plan
and the proposed changes as well as the existing zoning and proposed
changes to the zoning. Mr. Arnold is our professional planner. He
will be taking you through satisfaction of the different criteria. Mark
Minor is our professional engineer. If you have questions of him,
you can ask questions, but he's not going to be making any
presentation. Jim Banks is our transportation consultant and will be
making a brief presentation regarding transportation issues. Tim
Hall is our environmental consultant. He's here to answer any
questions you may have regarding environmental issues.
The property -- as the County Manager pointed out, there are
two petitions particular to this property. One is a Growth
Management Plan amendment to -- and I'll get into that in a little bit
greater detail -- to allow for a mixed-use project, both residential and
commercial, and a rezone to allow for a mixed-use project which is
both residential and commercial.
What we're proposing could not occur under the existing Growth
Management Plan language and cannot occur under the existing
zoning on the property; that's why we're here. The property is on the
Isles of Capri. I think the residents were referring to this as the
January 10, 2023
Page 171
commercial island for the Isles of Capri.
The property is approximately 5.32 acres. It's zoned C-3,
which is a fairly intensive commercial designation. It's a type of
commercial designation that is an attractor of commercial. It's not
local small-scale commercial. That is part of the project. It is part
of an overall approximately 20-acre commercial designation to serve
the Isles of Capri.
And we'll get into a little bit greater detail as to why it's clearly
too much commercial for the Isles of Capri and will have to be
developed as an attractor if it is developed as commercial. And I
think that's agreed to by not only Mr. Arnold but based upon
testimony from your staff at the Planning Commission regarding the
commercial.
I just want to briefly go over our attempts at public outreach to
try to reach consensus. As you know, we typically -- as Mr. Arnold
and I and other planners that I work with, we try to reach out to the
community, talk to the community, address concerns, and see if we
can reach a consensus. We were successful recently in doing that at
the Lely Resort project and other projects.
We had our one required NIM, which we're always required to
do. We held a second NIM because the first NIM we didn't get all of
the response. At the first NIM, the concerns that were raised were
regarding traffic. We don't want traffic to the island. That was
consistent with the opposition for the community to a food truck park
that was heard by the Board of County Commissioners a few months
before we submitted our application for the rezone.
Not jokingly, but, you know, at that time, Mr. Ferrao hired
Mr. Arnold and myself to appeal the approval of that food truck park.
And the residents were concerned about traffic at that point. And we
were successful in having the Board overturn the administrative
decision. For a brief period of time we were heroes for the Isles of
January 10, 2023
Page 172
Capri. That didn't last very long because we came forward with this
proposed project.
And, initially, at the first meeting their concerns were the same
concerns about the food truck park. Don't bring traffic. Don't bring
traffic. It's too much traffic.
We asked for a second meeting for the NIM to see if we can talk
about what other issues might be there with regard to the proposed
mixed-use project. We basically got no feedback at that meeting
either. They just said we don't want change. We want it to stay the
same --
There was a slight change in tactics. Now there seemed to be
support for a commercial attractor on the island, which was contrary
to what was occurring at the food truck park discussion as well as at
the first NIM. And the strategy was clear, because they published in
their local publication -- I won't call it a newspaper, but it's the
Coconut Tele -- that the strategy would be just don't discuss anything;
just say we're opposed. So, unfortunately, we were unable to reach
any real consensus or discussion, even, regarding the project and
what residents' concerns were.
-- p if order9, we go to the Planning Commission. We have a
long, long day the first day at the Planning Commission. We didn't
quite finish public comment, but at the conclusion of that, the
Planning Commission encouraged both sides to come together, have
another discussion, and see if we could reach some kind of a
consensus as to what the issues were that were being raised by the
public. The consensus from our perspective was there was a concern
about density and there was a concern about height that we were
proposing.
I reached out to the leadership of the two groups that are on Isles
of Capri, and we scheduled a meeting at my office to discuss what I
thought was going to be discussing what were the issues and could
January 10, 2023
Page 173
we talk about different proposals regarding the proposed project.
We exchanged pleasantries, and then I was handed an envelope with
a letter in it that says there will be no discussion; it is going to be C-3
or nothing from our perspective.
I, of course, said, are you sure we can't talk about height? Are
you sure we can't talk about density? Is there no -- there's nothing to
discuss about either of those issues?
And I was told, no, there's nothing to discuss; it's C-3 or nothing.
So here we are. We're here with the position of -- I assume the
residents are still at C-3 or nothing, and we are coming forward with
the proposed mixed-use project with certain changes based upon
what occurred at the Planning Commission and the feedback we got
in the vote, which was a vote to deny, but there was concerns about
height and there was concerns about density that were raised by
staff -- well, staff was not opposed to density. It was height. And
the Planning Commission had some concerns about height because
staff was not supporting height.
So we have a project that's coming forward that the existing
designation is Urban Coastal Fringe Subdistrict, which is a subdistrict
that allows three units per acre. And under Mike Bosi's
interpretation, there's an ability to ask for one additional unit per acre
if you convert the commercial to residential. I didn't agree with that
interpretation, but Mr. Bosi is the interpreter of the Growth
Management Plan, so we came forward with a Growth Management
Plan amendment to seek a higher density than four units per acre.
And with that, it's important to note that this property -- and
there's no dispute -- under today's Growth Management Plan would
not be designated C-3 commercial. The Growth Management Plan
only allowed this property to stay in effect because it was deemed
consistent by policy because at the time the Growth Management
Plan was adopted it had commercial uses on it and, therefore, it was
January 10, 2023
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not being taken away. There's actually provisions, and I'll show you
real briefly in the Growth Management Plan, to encourage residential
to be developed on these commercial properties that are not intended
to be commercial properties.
And that's where Mr. Bosi and I disagree. He thinks we're only
allowed to ask for one additional unit. I believe we were able to ask
for up to 16 units per acre. But it doesn't matter. We came through
with the Growth Management Plan amendment to where we are now.
And it's important to know that the purpose of that incentive was to
encourage property owners to develop residential and not commercial
to make the economic return a better return for residential than the
commercial to encourage the redevelopment of property that's not
intended to be commercial because it's the wrong place for
commercial under the Growth Management Plan.
So what we're trying to get to is what was the original intent of
this Growth Management Plan, and that is for this property to be
developed as residential and not as commercial, and we'll get into
greater detail as why commercial is not the right development for this
particular piece of property.
Our request, as the County Manager read into the record -- I
won't reread it -- but it's basically 108 units with some marina slips
and dry slips that have already been permitted and are already
approved. Not asking for anything new in that case.
We are actually asking to reduce the C-3 uses down to basically
10,000 square feet of C-3 uses for the private club and 6,000 square
feet of those C-3 uses. Today we can realistically develop it at
80,000 square feet of mixed-use commercial on this property. Very
easily can fit that. We can park it. It can be developed, and we
believe it would be a greater attractor of residents from
out -- throughout Collier County to this piece of property if it were
developed as commercial.
January 10, 2023
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This is the density bonus provision that's in your Growth
Management Plan that talks about converting properties that were
deemed consistent by policy. And as you can see, it says that a
bonus of up to 16 units per acre can occur. Mr. Bosi's interpreting it
different. It doesn't matter. I'm asking for the Growth Management
Plan amendment.
But you could see the Board of County Commissioners back in
1989 intended for the density to basically go from four units per acre
to 16 units per acre in the normal portions of the urban area of Collier
County. So it was a substantial increase in density to encourage
residential to convert to -- I mean, commercial to convert to
residential.
The requested density -- there's a couple of quotes I want to go
through, and I'm sure Mr. Bosi will address this in his comments.
But what was a consistent theme throughout the Planning
Commission meeting was the requested density of 108 units on the
entirety of the property, which is approximately 20 units per acre,
was not an issue for Mr. Bosi in his analysis, and you can see in
response to one of my questions he says, the compatibility issue is
something that's deferred to zoning staff, but from a professional
standpoint, do I think 20 units per acre next to 16 units per acre is
compatible? And he responded yes.
Our neighbor, as Mr. Arnold will show you, is a multifamily
parcel that's zoned for 16 units per acre and actually developed at a
much higher density than that.
Mr. Bosi, again, in response to another question, of course,
says -- or doesn't "of course." But he says again that our
request -- and it's in the middle part of -- I'm referring right here to
this quote right here -- that our request for 20 units per acre is not
unreasonable for what we've asked for in his professional opinion.
And then he goes on to say that the only reason staff was
January 10, 2023
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recommending against the density was we did not include an
affordable housing component to the project. And Mr. Bosi stated at
the Planning Commission that he believes the Board has directed,
whenever a Growth Management Plan amendment comes in to
increase density, there should be an affordable housing component to
that request, and he recommended denial based upon the direction
that the Board gave staff regarding including affordable housing as
part of the project. But other than that, density was not an issue with
regard to the request.
And Ms. Gundlach, who was the planner who reviewed this
project, agreed with Mr. Bosi that the density was not an issue. And,
again, in response to a question from one of the planning
commissioners, Mr. Bosi responded to Mr. Klucik that density is not
an issue with regard to this project.
What was at issue was height. There was no question that
Mr. Bosi didn't like our original height of 148 feet zoned and 168 feet
actual. And he and I went back and forth in some questions that I
had for him and, essentially, he said there's somewhere between
75 feet zoned, which is what he was initially recommending, and the
148 feet zoned that we were requesting, and there was somewhere
between 100 feet actual and somewhere between 168 feet actual that
staff would determine to be compatible for the island. And these
are -- these last two were the quotes where he and I were going back
and forth about what was that height.
And Mr. Bosi's a pretty good negotiator because he would never
tell me what that height was as to what would be compatible.
So the Planning Commission recommended denial. Several of
them said they recommended denial because staff was recommending
denial, and they were supporting staff.
So we were scheduled to go to the Board of County
Commissioners. Obviously, the County Manager said October
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wasn't going to happen. We're going to have this happen in January.
So I used that opportunity to talk to Mr. Bosi on multiple occasions
as to what would be a compatible height. And we went back and
forth, and I bid against myself several times, and at the end of the
day, we talked about eight residential floors over one level of
parking, which would be nine floors -- there are already eight-story
buildings on the island -- and what would that height be from
a -- predominantly, actual height, because actual height is really what
matters. How big is the tippy-top of the building going to be?
Now, we were originally in at 12 stories over two of parking, so
we were originally in for, basically, 14 stories, and nine stories was
acceptable if we could come to an agreeable height. And that height
was 122 feet. And that's -- how we got to the 122 feet, candidly, was
it would have been 115 feet if we hadn't of had Hurricane Ian, and we
realized what happened with Hurricane Ian, parking lots -- cars were
destroyed because the parking was below FEMA. To get those cars
out of harm's way, we needed to go up an additional seven feet.
So we're in, and we will agree, to change the Development
Standards Table from the original 168 feet actual height to 122 feet
actual height, commit to, you know, eight habitual floors over one
level of parking, and we will commit that our zoned height,
obviously, will not exceed the actual height of 122 feet. So there's
those changes from the 168 feet actual and 148 feet zoned to the
122 feet of actual height as part of our presentation.
Now, the use -- there was a lot of discussion about the use,
because the residents spent a lot of time saying they want this to be a
commercial development. They want it to stay the way it is.
Mr. Bosi was very clear, and you can see in this quote, that the
Growth Management Plan, because this is not an activity center,
would allocate residential use to this property. The Growth
Management Plan wants this to be a residential mixed-use project,
January 10, 2023
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and that's what we're proposing, a residential mixed-use project.
That's consistent with what the Growth Management Plan wants.
Mr. Bosi went on to respond to a question from Planning
Commissioner Joe Schmitt about the island's ability to actually
provide enough rooftops to allow this project to be developed as a
local, you know, basically, mom-and-pop type of a commercial
development. And Mr. Bosi said, essentially, in order for this
10-acre area to be developed as commercial, you would need roughly
10,000 people. The island only has approximately 2,000 people
based upon the data that county staff has. And that was -- as you
could see in the last part, he says, from a perspective, the amount of
commercial that is on -- that currently is designated on the island far
exceeds what -- the needs of the number of units that are on the
island, and that's just from a -- just from a numerical fact.
So the use of this attractor, because that's what it would be, is
not compatible with the island. It's not supposed to be developed
that way under the Growth Management Plan.
So the use was not an issue either from the county staff
perspective. It purely was a height and then also the affordable
housing issue. Those were the two uses -- two issues from a staff
perspective. And I'm sure Mr. Bosi can elaborate what his position
was at that time.
The residents hired a professional planner. His name was Max
Forgey, who essentially basically said that he defers to Mr. Bosi on
the density issue, and he defers to Mr. Bosi on the height issue. So
their own expert says he agrees with Mr. Bosi on those two issues,
and that was the testimony from their hired person.
I'm going to take you through some renderings of what the
project would look like at eight stories over one of parking. Keep in
mind that this building right here has four units across the floor.
This building, which you really can't see from this angle, has three
January 10, 2023
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units across the floor, and this one has two units across the floor.
In this building right here, there will also be the yacht club. So
the first floor is basically going to be nonresidential, but above that
will be seven levels of residential. And this is a stand-alone -- it's a
stand-alone building. It has parking in it, and on the top are the
amenities for the proposed residential units.
If you're looking from the east, you can see in the lower corner
kind of giving you the angle of what you're looking at. You can see
the view of what we're proposing and the proposed reconfigured
docks that have already been approved as part of the permitting
process.
From this angle you are looking west, again, kind of giving you
a view. Just to kind of put in scale, this area right here is where the
food truck park was going to be, so it was basically right in here.
This is it right here. Yeah, right here. It's right in here. General
vicinity is that's where the food truck park was going to be. I'm just
showing from this area right here.
So looking from the west, this is the existing dry storage facility,
and this is 85 feet to the tippy top of that structure.
This is a picture of the Moorings Park vegetation on Airport
Road. We put that in there so you would see the level of
landscaping that will be along the roadway at the first two levels of
this proposed project to show you that there will be dense
landscaping and, from a pedestrian standpoint, as you're walking by,
you're basically not going to see those buildings.
This is an entrance as you're coming around the curve. This is
an entrance that shows you the project and the Tarpon Club. Here's
a closer-up view of that entrance. This roadway right here will be
open for the public that is coming to this facility. We want to
reserve the right that if this becomes a cut-through for people on Isles
of Capri, that we can gate it so it's safe for the people that are coming
January 10, 2023
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and using these facilities. We don't want the liability of people using
this as a cut-through in the event they think it's more convenient for
them than staying on the main road.
Again, we're trying to show you what the pedestrian and the
bicyclist and a person in a car is actually going to see as they're
coming by these proposed structures, and they're from all different
angles. Building 2 is the three-wide building.
Again, another view of what the pedestrian is going to see as
you're driving by based upon the landscaping. This is showing
Building 1 and 2, and Building 1 is the building that has two
residences on each floor. Another view of the two next to each other
so you can see there's plenty of light and air between each of the
structures. And I neglected to say that the three structures are on one
level of parking. It's on one pedestal.
This is a view, basically, looking from the water to where the
Tarpon Club will be, which is, you know, the private club that
anybody could join. It's not just residents of Fiddler's Creek that was
discussed at the Planning Commission. Anybody on Isles of Capri is
welcome to become a member should they want to become a
member, just like the marina is open to the public. Ninety percent of
the slips have to be open to the public. That's the requirement -- or
the wet slips, I'm sorry. The dry slips do not have to be open to the
public, but the wet slips have to be open to the public.
This is what you're going to see, a closer view of the parking
garage with amenities. This is a grill room area for the residents of
the condos. That's not open to the public. And this is the exercise
area for the residents of the condominiums and, obviously, this is
their pool area.
These are samples of the level of amenities. If you've been to
any of Mr. Ferrao's several projects in Collier County -- he's been
developing here close to 40 years.
January 10, 2023
Page 181
MR. PARISI: Fifty-five; 55 developments.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Fifty-five developments over a lot of
years.
MR. PARISI: Forty years.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Forty years. He was a very young man
when he started. He's still a young man now.
But it's first-rate, top-notch. If you've been to any one of his
projects, it's first-class. It's going to be a benefit to the island. It's
going to increase property values. It's going to be visually pleasing
as you're coming to the island and, in our opinion, it's going to
increase property values on the island.
And the island is evolving, like most of Collier County is. You
know it's -- there's some older homes, and people are going to stay
there till they die, and they want it to stay the same. But there's new
people coming in and redeveloping that island.
So that's a brief overview of the project and what we're
proposing. You're familiar with the developer. You know, what
you're going to get through this project, and you know that it is a
project that you can be proud of and the island can be proud of.
I'm going to turn it over to Mr. Arnold to take you through a few
more of the details of the project, then Mr. Banks will come up and
do a brief presentation on traffic, and then I'll come up with some
brief concluding remarks, and then turn it over to you for questions.
And, of course, you can ask questions at any time, but hopefully we'll
answer most of them as we're doing our presentation.
MR. ARNOLD: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and
Commissioners. I'm Wayne Arnold. I'm a certified planner with
Grady, Minor & Associates. And I've been doing this a long time
and represented Mr. Ferrao for many years and, as Rich said, we've
been very proud to represent him and his many developments that
he's been involved in.
January 10, 2023
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I'm going to take you through some of the issues that Rich
touched on which were building heights and density, to some degree,
because I think it's important to frame the history of Isles of Capri,
because when we first started this project, many of the people said
you're going to destroy our quaint fishing village. And from my
perspective, having been around Collier County a long time, having
worked for the county for many years, Isles of Capri was not
supposed to be this quaint fishing village. It was developed by an
East Coast real estate guy who bought 600 acres and dredged a bunch
of mangroves to create sellable lots and some commercial tracts, and
that's what has occurred.
And I'm not taking anything away from the character of the
island, but it was never built to be this quaint fishing village. And,
in fact, as Rich mentioned, when you look at the C-3
commercial -- and I'll touch on that as well -- your Comprehensive
Plan would never have supported that today and, as Mr. Bosi testified
at the Planning Commission, we have probably a little over 20 acres
of commercial on Isles of Capri. You have a residential population
that can support two to three acres of commercial development.
So the level of commercial -- and Mr. Ferrao is a successful
businessman and understands the market. He's probably not going
to take five acres of land and build some tiny little restaurant building
and call it a day. You're going to maximize the value. And we
think that's going to equate to something much more than you have
today.
One of the things that Rich touched on, this is a slide that shows
surrounding zoning, and this shows you the project highlighted in
yellow. The other properties immediately to our north and east are
also zoned C-3 commercial. There's one outlier, and that's the
Tarpon condominium. It's highlighted there and labeled, and that
was zoned 16-unit-per-acre, RMF-16. Some of the zoning history,
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though, when you go back and look at it, we didn't always have
RMF-16 zoning. We had RM-2 zoning. We had MF-3 zoning.
The reality is, back in the day some of these zoning districts allowed
28 units per acre density, some of them allowed 200-foot buildings.
Obviously, the Tarpon condominiums were not built at either, but
they were built at over 23-unit-per-acre density.
So, as Rich mentioned, and as Mr. Bosi's testimony from the
Planning Commission, when you look at our proposed project of
around 20 units per acre compared to what's been developed, our
nearest residential project, you have something that is a compatible
density, and that's not an objection from staff. So we think that's
important to highlight.
So as Rich mentioned in his presentation, C-3 zoning was meant
to be pretty intensive zoning. It's not a neighborhood commercial
designation. And what I've highlighted there is it says the variety of
goods are those that -- comparison shopping, trade area consisting of
several neighborhoods, and preferably located at the intersection of
two arterial roadways.
Those are kind of your criteria for activity center commercial
where you have two major arterials coming together. We have a
minor collector roadway, which is Capri Boulevard, serving this
project. So it was never really set up to be this level of commercial,
but that's the zoning that exists today, and the residents have said, and
they've made it very clear, keep the C-3 zoning.
And as Rich mentioned, our firm has laid out some conceptual
site plans, and we believe we can easily fit an 80,000-square-foot
shopping facility there that would be heavily -- with many
restaurants. It would probably have -- the private club could
continue retail outlets, et cetera, but that can't be supported by the
island. So we know that that's going to be an attractor, and that's
things like a Tin City. You'd have marina operations with tour
January 10, 2023
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boats, et cetera. You could do that.
You have Venetian Village in Parkshore. You have the
Esplanade in Marco Island. I mean, the Esplanade -- and I think
back, I worked on the Esplanade for Jack Antaramian back in the
day, and that was a hugely controversial project. And I think if
people go there on the island today, it's just part of the fabric of
Marco Island. But it was really controversial back in the day.
So what do we have near by? This is an aerial showing you the
commercial properties that surround our property. The subject
property is, obviously, a portion of this property here. I'm not going
to spend a lot of time on those, but these are the examples of some of
the commercial that's been built. And I would submit to you that
Mr. Ferrao is not going to build anything like these small-scale
commercial properties on a five-acre piece of property that is zoned
C-3. You're going to maximize the value of what that is.
So we've all been on the island. We've seen it, but this is not
representative of what the future's going to hold for a developer that
does commercial development.
So this is a Development Standards Table, and I'll show you a
better copy on the visualizer when we get to that. But this identifies
the significant height reduction that Rich mentioned to you. So we
go from 168-foot height down to 122 feet in height. And there's also
a footnote change that's really hard to read at that scale, but it talks
about that the stand-alone parking garage with the amenity deck that
Rich pointed out later in his presentation, that that would be capped
at 40 feet, including those rooftop accessories.
Staff mentioned one minor change. And in the sheet that I have
for the visualizer, I can certainly put that up and show you the minor
change that they've asked for. We shared this with them yesterday.
So we prepared several distance exhibits for the Planning
Commission, and from our nearby standpoint, we don't really have
January 10, 2023
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things that are that close. The nearest residential project across
Johnson Bay is a little over 300 feet away. The Tarpon Club
condominiums to the northeast are a little over 400 feet away. So
we're not on top of other residential projects. We are in closer
proximity, obviously, to commercial zoned properties, but from a
residential standpoint, it's not as if people's views are going to be
obstructed by the presence of these three residential buildings and
then the fourth building being the parking deck and the amenity.
But one of the things that we talked about -- and when we
started, this height was such a critical issue. And I think we made a
strong case at the Planning Commission that at 168 feet, this was still
a very compatible project, because we've all been around Naples a
long time. We've driven around. You have great examples of
high-rises in shorter proximity to lower density residential.
And I cut a lot of the slides from this presentation because I
think it only warrants a couple of examples to show you how you can
deal with height. And, you know, a good example is North Naples.
This is in the Cove Towers area off Wiggins Pass Road. You had a
series of 14-story buildings that have been constructed there within
180 feet of single-family residences. They exist peacefully. I think
that they become part of the fabric of the community, and those are
not the eyesore. They're not out of character. People are
accustomed to those. And I think that's a good example of how we
can peacefully exist, and we're substantially less than the 14 stories
that that building is.
Another example is The Dunes project up off of 111th and
Vanderbilt Drive. Here's an example. You have the Venetian
building. It's approximately 180 to almost 200 feet tall. That's
within, you know, less than 300 feet of some two-story
condominiums to the east and a little under 500 feet from
single-family residences to the south.
January 10, 2023
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Again, I drive that portion of Vanderbilt Drive nearly every day,
and your eye level is accustomed to the one- to two-story heights that
Rich mentioned in his presentation. Your view corridor does not
look up to the top of a 200-foot-tall building. And in our case, we've
reduced that down to 122 feet.
But there are also examples on Isles of Capri. And while you
don't have a 122-foot building there, you do have the La Peninsula
project that was zoned for seven residential floors over one level of
parking. It was built years ago. It doesn't have modern building
heights on a per-floor basis that you would have in a modern building
that Mr. Ferrao is proposing, but you have a building that's
approaching 100 feet in height there that was a zoned height of
75 feet. A site plan has already been approved for a second building
there, and that one was going to also be another seven-story building
that's within 50 feet of single-family homes right there on Pelican
Boulevard.
So the southern part of the island does support some higher
density development today. Another example are the Marco Towers
building on the Isles of Capri. It's in the foreground there. It's an
eight-story building, and it's just under 100 feet from the nearest
single-family home.
So we have examples where they've existed peacefully. So in
my opinion, height's not necessarily the issue. We understand that
it's an issue for residences, but we certainly believe that we were
compatible at the 168 feet. We're certainly that much more
compatible at 122 feet. And I think staff, hopefully, can support that
and agree that that's a compatible number.
We think that it makes a lot of sense to add a residential
component to the marina activities that are already permitted, and I
think the distinction for the commercial that -- without getting in the
weeds on your Comprehensive Plan, you do allow marina activities
January 10, 2023
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on all waterfront property in the urban area. So that's a form of
commercial, obviously, but it's not the same level of commercial that
you have with C-3 commercial.
So what we thought, and as a complement to the island, you
know, having 108 more residences and 108 more rooftops can help
support those local mom-and-pop businesses that are on the island,
and you don't have the C-3 commercial that's going to be the attractor
that's going to compete, then, against those same people.
It does provide another housing option on the island. Yes, it's
heavy on a lot of single-family homes, but there are a lot of people
who choose to be seasonal residents that prefer the convenience of a
condominium, so that option is here. We think that we've done a
good job in laying out the site plan that Rich had, the more
illustrative plan that showed you the three residential buildings and
how they're arranged on site so that not only do they not impede
views from anybody else, but they offer nice water views for all the
residences that would be here.
The mixed-use project is much more traffic friendly than the C-3
option. Mr. Banks is going to follow me and take you through some
of the numbers, but it's significantly different in terms of traffic than
you have for the 108 residences and the supporting accessory
commercial marina activities.
As Rich walked through some of the quotes that occurred from
the Planning Commission, you have almost 21 acres of commercial
on the Isles of Capri. The population can support two to three acres,
has been the testimony. So, in my opinion, losing the 5.3 acres of
commercial that we have is not going to be a detriment to having
enough commercial to serve the island. There's still going to be
plenty.
And one of the other things that's to the advantage here -- and
Rich didn't go into detail, but there are some public benefits that have
January 10, 2023
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been proposed here with regard to some flushing culverts and some
sewer upgrades that are part of the proposal. So those are pretty
significant things.
You know, part of our application process, we go through the
various findings that are required under your Land Development
Code and application process for rezoning, and we believe we've met
all of those requirements. I know staff had felt that we didn't really
meet the test with regard to consistency on the Comp Plan issue, and
that was because of the density conversion that Rich walked you
through. And I'm not going to go back through that. But whether it
was 16 or 20, the fact is we've asked for an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan. The language that's in our proposed
Comprehensive Plan supports the project we're proposing. So if you
approve the Comprehensive Plan, the project that we're proposing
would also be consistent.
So from my perspective, you know, we have a few planning
takeaways, and one is the density that is proposed is compatible with
the nearby residential on the island. We're actually less than the
nearest residential project in terms of density.
The proposed height, again, is compatible with the surrounding
community. I think part of the testimony that came up at the
Planning Commission is that if you have RMF-16 zoning, a zoned
height of 75 feet, and then you add the actual height, which is sort of
from the road grade up to the top, the highest point of the elevation of
the building, those 75-foot-tall buildings easily become 100 feet
when you put elevator towers and other rooftop amenities that they
may have on them.
So, you know, our 122 feet, as Rich mentioned, comes about as
having modern building heights per floor and also trying to elevate to
get the tires of our vehicles dry should we, God forbid, have another
storm surge like we just experienced.
January 10, 2023
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Again, as we mentioned as part of the presentation, the
commercial that's there today is inconsistent with your current
Growth Management Plan. There's some policies that recognize it
being there, but there are also policies that encourage us to get rid of
that commercial zoning.
As we said, the traffic associated with the project of a true
commercial project at C-3 intensity is going to be a generator and
increase traffic impacts to the island. Something we heard, as Rich
mentioned from the food truck park days, traffic was an issue for the
island, and we think that this proposal is far better in that regard.
So we believe the mixed-use project is a good project, we
believe it's a compatible project, we believe it's a complementary
project, and we urge you to support our proposal.
So with that I'll close my comments, and I'll let Jim come up and
talk a little bit about traffic, and we'll answer questions.
MR. BANKS: Thank you. Good afternoon, Commissioners,
Mr. Chairman. For the record, my name is Jim Banks. My firm
prepared the Traffic Impact Study for the project before you now.
The traffic study was prepared pursuant to the criteria set forth
by Collier County. Your staff reviewed the report, and they agreed
with the findings of the study.
The study evaluated the traffic impacts associated with the
existing marina that's there, as well as the proposed land uses which,
as you've heard, is 108 multifamily dwelling units. Also, the
addition of 29 new wet slips for the marina, 7,000 square feet of retail
and office space, some of that associated with the marina, some of
that will be general office space, as well as a restaurant 10,000 square
feet in size with the capacity of 200 seats.
So the traffic study took into account the existing development
that's there -- the existing marina that's there today as well as the
proposed land uses and then came up and assessed its impacts on the
January 10, 2023
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adjacent road network.
Using the ITE Trip Generation Manual, we estimated that the
existing marina and the proposed land uses will generate a total of
200 two-way p.m. peak-hour trips. Now, of that 200 trips, 62 are
currently on the network, because they are generated by the existing
marina use. So the net new trips that will be realized on the road
network is actually 138 new p.m. peak-hour two-way trips.
So then we took the -- we evaluated what the 138 additional
trips would do to the road network. And just for the record so it's
clear, we collected traffic data on Capri Boulevard in February of last
year. So we collected data during peak-season conditions, and we
evaluated what the project's impact would be based upon that data
that was collected in February of last year, and then we also
forecasted it to future conditions.
I'm not going to bore you with the details of all the analysis, but
to basically put on the record that the report concluded, as your staff
agreed with, that the proposed project will not negatively impact the
surrounding road network or cause any roadways to operate below
their adopted level-of-service standards. Furthermore, the adjacent
road network has a surplus of capacity and can accommodate the
additional trips that will be generated per the proposed project.
I'd also like to refresh the Board's memory that the Isles -- Island
of -- the Isles of Capri, they do have a safe means of ingress and
egress to the road network by way of that existing traffic signal at the
intersection of Capri Boulevard and Collier Boulevard. So there is a
safe means of ingress and egress for the residents and the uses that
are there today as well as the additional trips that would be generated
by this project.
In addition to the traffic study, we did do a comparative analysis
of the potential impacts associated with the property if it was
developed as a commercial/retail restaurant type development.
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Something like a Tin City type use, I think, would be -- is what is
anticipated that would be developed in that location, because it would
actually have to generate traffic off island to the island to support
those types of uses, because there's just not enough people on the
island to support 80,000 square feet of restaurant and retail space.
If the site is developed with 80,000 square feet of those types of
mixed uses, the property would generate 402 two-way peak-hour
trips, which is basically double the amount of traffic that would be
generated by the proposed project that we're asking for here today.
We also did a -- ran a scenario if it wasn't developed at quite the
intensity of 80,000 square feet, say, something about 54,000 square
feet, the site would generate 296 two-way peak-hour trips, which is
still significantly more traffic, and it is traffic that mostly is generated
from off island to the island, not generated from the island, which
would be the residential type traffic. So there is a different type of
trip characteristic associated with commercial trips versus those of
residential trips.
So the report concludes -- or we concluded that the proposed
project will generate substantially less traffic than what would be
generated by alternate commercial type development.
That concludes my presentation, and I guess we're going to wait
to hear if we have questions after.
MR. YOVANOVICH: As Wayne pointed out, what we
proposed for the increase in density in lieu of providing an affordable
housing component were two projects that would be for the direct
benefit of those who live on Isles of Capri. The first proposal was to
upsize the utilities and the pump station to be of a sufficient size that
the island can convert from the existing septic tanks to a centralized
sewer system, and the second proposal was to provide for two
culverts that would allow the water to flush better, because right now
there's issues environmentally with the water.
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The cost of those improvements are approximately $3.2 million.
Those estimates may be a little stale. It may be a little higher at this
point. But that was the estimated cost to do those improvements.
What you can see is the utility line that would be run is of a
significant distance to provide service to not only our project, but to
the residents of Isles of Capri should they convert from the septic
tanks to centralized sewer. And the culverts -- the locations of the
culverts are in a location that will allow for proper flushing of the
waters so that the waters will be healthy which is, obviously, a value
to the environment as well as a value to those who live on Isle of
Capri -- Isles of Capri. And Mr. Hall can get in much greater detail
about that.
Now, there were some representations made at the Planning
Commission that these improvements were already in the hopper, if
you will. That's not true. There's no funding for these
improvements, there's no permitting for these improvements, and
certainly no construction-related monies for these improvements.
But we would design, permit, and construct the culverts as well as the
utilities that we would bring to the isles.
We did an analysis of taxes generated from the commercial
versus what will be the taxes generated from residential. What we
did is we took Tin City and the Villages -- the Village Shops on
Venetian Bay as examples. They're there. We know what they're
paying in taxes today. Tin City is paying roughly $78,000 in taxes.
The Villages -- the Village Shops are paying approximately $270,000
in taxes.
We used what we think is a conservatively low valuation
average per unit of 2.5 million per unit. The project would generate
approximately $2.9 million in taxes. It clearly would be upscale. It
would be a contributor to the tax base of Collier County way in
excess of the service demands for the proposed project. And those
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excess funds would be available to the Board to spend however it
deems sufficient, including some additional projects for Isles of Capri
should the Board be so inclined.
I want to touch a little bit on the traffic. Your Transportation
staff and Mr. Banks have concluded that the access to the proposed
project as well as the proposed commercial is sufficient and would be
safe to the project. And the only -- in reading the staff reports, the
only department that recommended denial of the petitions was the
Planning Department. Transportation recommended approval.
Environmental staff recommended approval. Emergency
Management, Mr. Summers, recommended approval. The Fire
Department reviewed the petition and recommended approval. And,
again, we spent some time talking about where transportation -- I'm
sorry -- planning staff felt we were deficient. We believe the
changes we've made today address those comments made by the
planning staff.
So, in conclusion, what do we know? We know that the
commercial is inconsistent with the Growth Management Plan.
Residential is consistent with the Growth Management Plan. We
know that the Isles of Capri cannot support more commercial. It
barely supports what's there today. And, candidly -- candidly,
there's people from off island coming in and utilizing the commercial
that's there today. If commercial is developed, it will be a tourist
destination and bring more traffic to the Isles of Capri, which is
inconsistent with what the residents said they wanted back just a few
months ago.
The proposed density is compatible, Mr. Bosi and Mr. Arnold
testified so, and so did their expert, Mr. Forgey. He said
Mr. Bosi's -- he's the guy when it comes to density. And Mr. Bosi
didn't have an issue with density.
Hurricane evacuation is not an issue. Mr. Summers said so.
January 10, 2023
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The two public benefits with the culvert as well as the sewer size
to serve the island are benefits both to the environment and to the
residents of Isles of Capri. There's a benefit tax-wise by increasing
ad valorem taxes. And I think, importantly, you know who the
developer is, and you know Mr. Ferrao, and you know what will be
developed. Mr. Ferrao probably will not be the developer of the
commercial. He'll give it to somebody else who specializes in this
type of commercial development. It will be an intense commercial
development. I'm sure it will be quality, but I'm sure not to the
quality that Mr. Ferrao develops.
So what we're requesting is that the Board approve both the
Growth Management Plan amendment and the proposed mixed-use
PUD at the 122 feet actual height that we discussed.
And with that, that concludes our presentation, and we're
available to answer any questions you may have from our team
should you have any.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't have any commissioners lit
up just yet. Looks like Commissioner Hall. Do you want to hear
from Mr. Bosi first, or do you want to have some questions? We can
always bring him back.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I just didn't -- Mr. Yovanovich, do
you know how many homes are on the island?
MR. YOVANOVICH: I think Mike said -- I've heard two
numbers.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: There's 500 lots.
MR. YOVANOVICH: There's 500 lots, thank you. I wanted
to say someone said 455 homes, but -- so there's 500 lots, 455 homes.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Plus condos.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah. I think the total is 850 on the
entire island is the numbers that Mr. Bosi was using was 850 for
everything, all in.
January 10, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: If the commissioners don't
have -- and I'm sure we're going to have plenty of questions.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I'm sure you will.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: But I'd like Mr. Bosi to -- I'd like
to hear from staff.
MR. BOSI: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Mike Bosi,
Planning and Zoning director.
Just to put on the record, the recommendations that came from
the Planning Commission and came within your executive summaries
for both the Growth Management Plan as well as the mixed-use PUD
from staff's perspective was a recommendation of denial. That
recommendation of denial was based upon a set of assumptions or set
of plans that are a little bit different than what was presented today.
I'll address a couple of the different areas that Mr. Yovanovich
had quoted me regarding the density, regarding the height. And I
don't disagree with any of the statements. They are what they are.
He's correct, the way that our Growth Management Plan would
look at this island would be 100 percent would be residential with the
allowance for marina uses because it's a water-dependent use. Our
current GMP allocates commercial activity, intense activity to your
activity centers.
Your Commercial 3 zoning districts are Community
Commercial, meaning it has an outreach of five to 10 miles in terms
of the draw for its audience. So what we would have, if the 20-some
acres of commercial would be developed on this island, would be
folks from off island having to come to island to the attractors that
would be developed within the commercial. I don't disagree, and I
stand by the statement that the amount of residents -- the number of
units that are there today can only support about two to three
units -- or two to three acres of commercial. There's just not enough
rooftops to saturate 20 acres of commercial.
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And so what that means is eventually, if this commercial zoning
is retained and maintained, eventually attractors are going to have to
be developed that are going to bring people from off island to the
island, which is going to create a number of issues related to traffic
congestion.
I will say, it was December of '21. I was defending my position
related to the food truck park, and the public testimony that was
offered as proffered to the Board of County Commissioners was we
don't want to create a traffic nightmare. We don't want to bring
people from off island to island. From what I hear and from what
the Planning Commissioner -- or the testimony we heard at the
Planning Commission, that position from the population has changed
somewhat, that they're more welcoming that traffic to come onto the
island.
What I would say from the recommendation of denial from staff
perspective from the GMP amendment was related to that unofficial
policy that has been endorsed by the Board of County Commissioners
when we've had Growth Management Plan amendments, and
that's -- if you're asking for more density than what the GMP would
allow for, you're going to provide affordable housing.
Staff looked and does recognize the public benefits that would
be provided for by the two flushing culverts as well as the extension
of wastewater from Collier Boulevard down to the project location,
but that's a policy decision the Board would have to make. The
Board would have to arrive to say that those two public benefits are
the equivalent of what the traditional twenty -- in this instance, 24
units of affordable housing is what the Board would normally
demand of the developer.
So the Board would have to evaluate, is the valuation, is the
value of the benefits that are provided for within the flushing culverts
as well as the wastewater system, is that the equivalent of what you
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would get for a 24-unit addition of affordable housing?
One thing we know, these units, these 108 units, they're going to
create the demand for additional affordable housing. They're going
to create the demand for additional services. They're going
to -- they're going to create the need for some additional affordable
housing.
I did ask the applicant at one point in time, would there be
contemplation of a contribution to the Affordable Housing Trust
Fund on a per-unit basis on those 24. The applicant felt that the
contribution of the two flushing culverts and the wastewater
extension was sufficient enough as a public benefit to offset that.
But from a staff's perspective, that's why we're -- that's why the
recommendation of denial was provided for within the staff report
from the Planning Commission as well as within the executive
summary.
Related to the PUD -- and I think the applicant -- I think Rich
did a very good job of summing it up. There was two issues at the
Planning Commission. It was density and it was the height of the
building. And density, I was clear, there's 23.8 units per acre at
Tarpon Village or the existing RMF-16 property. That RMF-16
property is only a two-story profile. It's a very low profile, but it is
dense. If it was redeveloped, it could develop, and it's got a 75-foot
height limitation. That 75-foot height limitation is zoned height,
meaning that's -- it's Section 4 -- one second. 4.02.01 of our Land
Development Code allows for the County Manager or designee to
waive those -- the zoned height requirement if they're proposing to
have parking within the principal use. So within that RMF-16
zoning district, you could basically have 20 feet of parking, two
stories of parking, and then a 75-foot building. So it establishes
about a 95-foot height limitation which could be redeveloped to
the -- it would be to the north end to the east of the property.
January 10, 2023
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At 168 feet and 148 feet zoned, we just felt it was -- it couldn't
be found compatible. And I think Wayne did show you some
examples on the island as well as off island of taller structures in
close proximity to one- and two-story structures. So there is means
for compatibility related to the buffering, the spacing, the
arrangement of the buildings, but with the new proposal, staff -- we
had some conversation with the applicant. And I had dug in pretty
hard. I said 115 was the limit towards where I thought that we could
find compatibility.
After the -- after the hurricane, after the storm surge, after
further conversation, Rich asked me to consider 122 feet. And one
of the things that I've been mulling over was the fact that one of the
reasons why that ask was was to able to locate the first level of
parking or -- and this being the only level of parking that's being
proposed. But the level of parking would be placed above BFE,
meaning that the issues of storm surge that have -- that created all the
loss within Vanderbilt Beach Drive of the first-floor garages, that that
would be something mitigated by that ability and, because of that,
I've found that I could support, from a planning perspective, 122 feet.
And another aspect that I think has to be understood is the
reduction, the reduction of intensity in exchanging from the
commercial to the residential. It is a significant trip reduction. And
I think that trip reduction somewhat is undercounted because these
residences are going to be occupied on probably a five- to six-month
basis because of the cost and because of the seasonality of this type
of a property. The numbers that are being provided show a
significant reduction, and I think that those -- that that reduction
would be real and related -- related to the overall intensity.
Remember this -- there's four islands within Isles of Capri.
This was the island as they designed the -- as they designed the
land-use arrangement, this was the island that they said they wanted
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to have the most intensity on. They put 20 acres of commercial.
We've talked about how we don't feel, as a staff perspective, that
that's supportable.
The transition to -- transition to a higher density residential from
a planning perspective, I think there is some benefit to it -- benefit to
the overall infrastructure capacity as well as the overall activity in
terms of the day-to-day amount of traffic that will be generated
within this area. And there's still a number of commercial acres that
are still available to provide, you know, goods and services.
But one of the functions that we also recognize is the cost of
land. And I think we've had some conversations, Chair, off-line, if
you have got a $5 million-an-acre property or a $2 million-an-acre
property, putting a 2,000-square-foot convenience store doesn't align
with that type of evaluation. So highest and best use is something
that is always something that we understand is a consideration.
With all of that said, staff feels that we can support the proposed
revised height at 122. We still have an -- we still feel that we can't
recommend approval on the Growth Management Plan, and that's the
first step. Remember, we can't approve the -- we can't approve the
PUD until we approve the PUD.
Staff's perspective is we feel it's going to create an issue for
affordable housing. It's a policy decision for the Board. Is the
public benefit that's being provided for within the flushing culverts
and the extension of wastewater, does that offset the non-contribution
or non-adding to the affordable housing issue?
But that's for the Board of County Commissioners to make a
policy decision. Staff's constrained. Staff has -- staff has taken the
policy in the direction that the Board has said, if you're asking for
additional density, you're going to provide for an affordable housing
allocation. And so from that -- from staff's perspective, we can't
support the GMP as it's proposed, but we most certainly understand
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that that's a policy decision that sits with the Board of County
Commissioners.
With that, I'd entertain any questions that you may have.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I have just a couple quick questions. I do have a question for
the developer as well, and then I'll reserve any other comments until
after the public.
But, Mr. Bosi, you've just indicated that from a zoning
standpoint you can support the petition at 122 feet recognizing the
seven feet additional for the flood issues. So my question is,
if -- and in terms of the Comprehensive Plan, your concern was the
impact on affordable housing.
MR. BOSI: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If there was some
component or some offset to help Collier County deal with the
affordable housing issue, would that impact your decision; some off
site, for example?
MR. BOSI: Any -- staff recognizes, and I said at the beginning,
this is going to create additional demand on affordable housing.
This is going to be more services that are going to be demanded.
There's going to be more goods.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Understood. I'm just
wondering if the --
MR. BOSI: Yes. Yes, it would.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. So it's fair to say that
you support the petition as it relates to the zoning issue. You have a
concern in terms of the Comprehensive Plan as it relates to workforce
or affordable housing?
MR. BOSI: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So I want to ask
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Mr. Yovanovich a question, because he and I had had some
conversations about the affordable housing issue, and I asked
Mr. Yovanovich and Mr. Ferrao to sharpen their pencils a little bit.
So what's the conclusion? I know we talked about some possibility.
MR. YOVANOVICH: We did talk about it and, candidly, there
was a lot of discussion earlier today about the issue with workforce
housing. So, you know, we're not immune to that. And as I'm sure
you're aware, we already have a project in -- it's not related to this.
But we already have a project that Mr. Ferrao intends to build off of
Auto Ranch Road that is a workforce -- includes workforce house.
So he's not -- he's not blind to that issue.
So the answer to the question is, you know, in the old days, I
think there was -- there was a thousand-a-unit contribution, voluntary
contribution towards affordable housing paid at closing, recognizing
that was probably --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: A little bit of inflation.
MR. YOVANOVICH: There's been a little bit of inflation
since then.
Mr. Ferrao is willing, at closing of each of these units, to make a
contribution to the county of $5,000 a unit towards affordable
housing wherever the Board deems that that affordable housing
should be constructed.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Let me, then, just follow up,
and then another quick question for Mr. Bosi, and then I'll be quiet.
The $5,000 per unit at closing of each unit, I think, would generate,
depending on the number of units, close to a half a million dollars
for -- and I would like to see those funds into our Affordable Housing
Trust Fund.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, we would expect that.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah. We have Mr. Hall
who's looking to solve that affordable housing problem, and this,
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perhaps, would help in that regard.
So, Mr. Bosi, assuming there's an agreement to deal with the
workforce/affordable housing issue off site by providing funding,
would that change your opinion on the Growth Management Plan?
MR. BOSI: Yes, it would, and I would just let the Board know
that Mr. French and myself and Mr. Cormac Giblin, who's standing
in as interim housing director, on the 17th of January are going to
start discussions with the Affordable Housing Committee about the
parameters of how to spend the money within the Housing Trust
Fund. So, yes, it would.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I'll reserve
any other comments or questions until after the public comment.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah.
Mr. Bosi, just a question on semantics, because there's two
pieces of property, one on -- one on one -- I don't know which
direction I'm going. One on the right and one on the left where the
boat storage facility is. And the boat storage facility's included in
this rezone.
Is all of the density in the rezone captured in the development
that's being built across the street, or does the --
MR. BOSI: The entire project.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The entire project. And if
the boat barn were to go away some day, if someone decided that it
was no longer fruitful to run a boat facility there, would they be able
to -- they can certainly always come and ask. But would they be, by
right, entitled to more density over there?
MR. BOSI: No. I mean, the density's already spoken for
related to that property.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. That's my only
question. Because I had -- you know what, I do have one other
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question. This is a fairly substantive change from the time that you
have had to review the original presentation and proposition by the
developer. Have you had sufficient time? Do you feel comfortable
in making these recommendations for these -- for these new
adjustments?
MR. BOSI: Of course, I would have loved to have had this
discussion with the Planning Commission, but that's not the reality.
I'm comfortable with the recommendation I made based upon the
conditions that I've described that exist within the zoning and exist
within the built environment within the localized area.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Those are my questions for
now, sir. Like Commissioner Saunders, I'll probably want to have
something to say afterwards. But my other was the housing
affordability and then the heights.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So, Mr. Bosi, just to be clear, the
affordable housing component that you would feel comfortable with
is because it's compatible with the way the Growth Management Plan
is written, and you wouldn't -- and that would just alleviate you of
having to substituted a sewer project versus the affordable housing
component?
MR. BOSI: The unwritten policy that this board has developed,
like I said, is if you're asking for additional density, you're going to
provide for affordable housing. They're not providing for affordable
housing. So I am concerned because we do know that this housing
will put -- this project will put additional pressure on affordable
housing. Staff is just -- that's been the staff's directive, gain
additional -- gain movement on the affordable housing issue if they're
asking for a GMP amendment. They weren't providing for it; that's
why the recommendation of denial. But with the inclusion of the
monetary contribution of $5,000 per unit up to, you know, potentially
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$540,000 worth of contributions to the affordable housing, staff
would feel that that aspect has been satisfied by the petition.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. Thanks.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Thank you, Chairman.
I just want to be clear because I know you made a comment
earlier in your presentation. You're saying a development of this
size would require 24 units of affordable housing. So can you tell
me that $540,000 is equal to 24 units of affordable housing? If you
can do that, I'm going to hire you to build me some houses.
MR. BOSI: The contribution can go towards satisfying the cost
of a 24-unit, but what I would say is if you're building affordable
housing and it's -- the context and the size and the economies of scale
have everything to do with it. If it's -- you've got a -- if we're
proposing a 400-unit parcel or a 400-unit development on the Golden
Gate Golf Course as part of that proposal, 24 units broken down over
the overall cost might be $500,000 because of the economies of scale.
So it all depends. If it's just straight a 24-unit project, no, you're
not going to be able to satisfy it, but if you've got a project like the
one on the golf course, 400 units, 24 of those prorated, the cost might
only be $500,000. So, yes, I could say that could get you close to
being able to satisfy what would be the price tag for a potential, but it
has everything to do with the situation and the economies of scale
that are being proposed within that project.
MR. YOVANOVICH: May I answer that, Commissioner?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah, go ahead.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Is it okay, Mr. Kowal?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Go ahead.
MR. YOVANOVICH: A couple of different things. One, I
think you're -- I think we should get credit for the 3.2 million that we
were putting towards other improvements. So I think it's the
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3.2 million plus another 500,000 that would offset the affordable
housing component, and then I would think $3 million is sufficient to
cover construction costs for that.
Secondly, as part of the villages that are being approved in the
Rural Lands Stewardship Area, developers are required to set aside
land for purchase by the county with density of 10 units per acre
associated with that.
The price is 28,000 an acre to set that aside. I think that you
could then take this half a million dollars and buy -- I can't do that
math in my head -- however many acres that is with the density that
you could then leverage into far more than 24 units of affordable
housing. So I think there's -- you can leverage that money into
acquiring property that's being set aside for affordable housing
together with the $3.2 million worth of utility and culvert
improvements to address those concerns.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm never short on words, and I've
got plenty of questions but, as Chair, I want to keep going back to my
peers here and give them first chance. I've talked about this project
at great length for quite some time, and so I want the benefit of their
questions.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just -- my comment was
more directed to Commissioner Kowal, and that had to do very
similar to with what Rich said. It's an aggregate public benefit. We
don't have a written policy about housing -- or affordable housing to
travel ever. There is a, he has said it multiple times, an unwritten
policy. It ranges anywhere from 10 percent up to 30 percent I've
seen extracted. We don't like using that word, but suggested. And
so 20 percent is those 24 units that you're talking about.
And while they were talking, you know, at 200,000 a unit,
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assuming we already own the land, that's 4.2 million, and they're at
3.2 million estimated cost for the improvements for the sewer
extension and the culverts and then another half-a-million-plus for
the -- it was getting close. That's just for the brain.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So it's a good time for me to bring
it up, because it's a question that I had, and we're talking about the 3.2
million. So my question -- you know, we've got an environmental
issue down there that -- is it true that some of the commodes won't
flush at high tide?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS: No, no.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay. That's why I'm asking.
Is there any environmental issues with the septics down there or,
you know, high tide.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Wait. Commissioner Hall
is speaking to Mr. Bosi, okay. If you want to mention that in
personal comments and talk about how your toilet flushes and how
your septic works, that's for your comment.
Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I was just asking the question,
because the real question is, who pays for the utility upgrade if and
when the time comes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE VOICE: Don't increase the density.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, sir, sir. You're not helping
your cause, okay.
Go ahead, Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So the question is, whether the
project goes or whether the project doesn't, in the future, when the
utilities are needed for upgrade, who has to pay for that?
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioner, so it's a -- it's actually an
interesting setup on Isles of Capri because it is a shared or split utility
January 10, 2023
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system in part provided by Marco Island Utility and in part provided
by Collier County Public Utilities, and there are long-standing
conversations between Collier County and the Marco Island Utility
about the septic-to-sewer conversion project which would be run by
Marco Island Utility, however, in a partnership project with Collier
County because of the stormwater upgrades that are needed on Isles
of Capri. However, when you go to a septic-to-sewer conversion,
typically, the way that those projects are funded is by a special
assessment, so that is on the residents.
COMMISSIONER HALL: So the residents would ultimately
foot the bill?
MS. PATTERSON: They would.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I just wanted to kind of
clarify one thing. I never for a second thought that $5,000 for a 100
units or half a million dollars would be the equivalent of building 24
units. That's obviously not the case. It will build maybe a third of a
unit, but it won't build 24 units.
But there are communities that have affordable housing
requirements if someone develops a project, say they develop 100
units with no affordable housing, there are communities that require a
payment into a trust fund for affordable housing typically anywhere
from $1,000 a unit to $2,000 a unit. Five thousand dollars a unit is
probably not -- would not be unreasonable, but that's where this is
kind of coming from.
It's not the thought that someone can -- you know, that we're
trading 24 units which would cost, I guess, a couple million dollars
for $500,000. We're trying to build up a trust fund in a way. And,
quite frankly, this would be fairly normal, I think, in terms of a dollar
amount.
Maybe I should pose that as a question for Mr. Bosi. He'll
January 10, 2023
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know more about those types of issues than I do in terms of the
amounts and things.
MR. BOSI: And in a lot of communities that's not an
unfamiliar contribution in terms of a set dollar amount for a
unit -- for units being developed to be able to offset the cost. And
like we said, we're developing a strategy with the Affordable Housing
Advisory Committee as to the best way to allocate the funds within
that trust fund.
One thing that Mr. French pointed out to me related to their
commitment for the $5,000 a unit at closing, he points out, rightfully
so, there's no way that we can track closing. We can track COs, but
we can't track closing, so -- meaning the certificate of occupancy.
The closing's a private -- is a private exchange. So if that
contribution was provided, we would prefer it at CO rather than at
closing.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good point.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I just wanted to let
Commissioner McDaniel know I understand that, you know, this
is -- we're not looking -- I wasn't really looking to say, you know, you
were going to build homes at $540,000.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But I just spent five hours of my
life before lunch, and everybody on this board talked about how
important it is to have affordable housing/workforce housing for this
county and how much of a nightmare it's going to be for us to be able
to handle that.
So I understand it's a policy thing, that we make that decision up
here as grown men, but also I think moving forward, we all have to
understand as a community it's probably going to be something we're
going to look at and we're going to probably require from a lot of
January 10, 2023
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developers in the future, and we're going to hold them to it, I mean,
because it is an issue. It's an issue. We're all going to deal with it.
And every time we build any commercial property, any
restaurant, anything, it's -- we create more jobs, but we have nowhere
for the people to live. So I'm just saying, it's just -- you know, this is
something we have to take seriously. So I just wanted to get my two
cents in there and let you know.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and just to further the
conversation in that regard -- and I didn't mean to suggest that you
were thinking that that could be accomplished -- that 500,000 at
$21,000 an acre would equate to 25 acres in the RLSA at 10 units an
acre that could be developed towards affordable housing. That's
just -- again, just a different way of looking at it from a -- from the
math standpoint. I didn't mean to, you know, be suggesting that we
were going to do that. It's an aggregate public benefit.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm going to make some
comments, and then I'm going to propose -- we're scheduled for a
break at 4:50, and I think it's wise not to bring up a couple of citizens
and then break, that we give you guys a big chunk of time.
But I just want to summarize. I might be the only
commissioner that watched the entire Planning Commission, both of
them, start to finish. And so, Mr. Bosi, maybe if you could get a
little bit closer to the mic. Just for the sake of documentation, what
we're hearing today is totally different than what the Planning
Commission heard. They were adamant in some respects about a
certain type of petition. But just to summarize, at the Planning
Commission, it was 168 feet, it's 14 stories, 108 units. I think the
upgrade offer was it -- it was 3.2? It was the culverts and it was the
utility but not the 500,000 for affordable housing? That was one of
the stipulations.
January 10, 2023
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MR. BOSI: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Now what we're here hearing is
nine stories instead of 14, basically. I know it's 12 over two, eight
over one, but, you know, just total stories. So it went from 14 to
nine. It went from 168 feet to 122, the addition of the $5,000 per
unit to our Affordable Housing Fund.
What else am I missing? Is there anything else that I don't have
in my notes here that was presented in September? And
Mr. Yovanovich can come up to the podium. But just for the sake of
defining the differences between, you know, what everybody out here
and myself heard in September and what we heard here now, I think I
summarized the difference in height, the difference in the offer for
how we could meet -- how we could justify amending the Growth
Management Plan. Were there any other things? And, obviously,
the lower height helps with the traffic as well, then those numbers
come down, you know, possibly. But anything else?
MR. BOSI: I think you've summarized it pretty well. There
was a clarification on the parking garages and the amenities that there
was going to be a limitation of 40 feet. They've clarified that within
their development table. So that's -- that's kind of similar to what the
Planning Commission -- but I think it was. It really did boil down to
the zoned height and the actual height. And there was -- there was
just disagreement in terms of what was being proposed compared to
what's today.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm going to have plenty to say and
plenty to ask, but I'm going to end with Commissioner McDaniel, and
then we're going to take a break, and we're going to move into public
comment.
Sir?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You can take a break, as long
as we're -- I have some more questions, but let's go ahead and take a
January 10, 2023
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break, and then I'd like to hear the public comment.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Take a break till 5:05.
Does that sound reasonable? Okay. We'll break until 5:05. We'll
come back and start with public comment.
(A brief recess was had from 4:53 p.m. to 5:05 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Everybody please take their seats
so we can start public comment. Please ensure you've silenced your
phones if you maybe turned them back on.
Mr. Miller, how many speakers do we have signed up now?
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, we had a high of 75, I think it was,
but I know we've had some people drop out, so the number's a little
nebulous at this point.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: All's I'll say to start our public
comment is -- and I'll reiterate it again -- there's no commissioner up
here that wants to stifle anyone but also, make no mistake, all five
commissioners up here are well aware of this project, okay. We've
had until September, the Planning Commission meeting, and when
the County Manager decided to, you know, move this meeting to
January, so we've had plenty of time. You've had plenty of time.
Having said that, nobody should walk out of here feeling they
weren't allowed to talk. But having said that, I just want to also
reiterate, you have three minutes at the podium, okay. When
your -- when the green light comes on, that means the counter is
counting. When you see the yellow light, it means you have 30
seconds left. And I would please ask that when you see the yellow
light and you have 30 seconds left to be respectful to the person
who's waiting to speak after you. When the red light comes on, if
you haven't finished, that's your time for summation so that we can
get through, you know, the different folks and we can hear your
perspective.
January 10, 2023
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If somebody has already echoed what you know you are about
to say, you know, please either waive your time or, you know, come
up and introduce yourself and then say, you know, I have nothing
else to add. But, you know, we want to be respectful of everybody's
time. But do the math. You know, 70 speakers at three minutes
apiece -- some people have already come up here saying, when will
this be over? That's up to you. And then we still have plenty of
questions. So it's not public comment and then we vote, just so you
understand, if you haven't been here before.
Having said that, let's go to our first public speaker.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, your first speaker's going to be Mike
Cox, and he'll be followed by Captain Michael Cochran. Mr. Cox
has been ceded additional time, and I'm going to read through these.
Jeff Or?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Okay. David Ersland?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: John Kernan?
THE WITNESS: I cede.
MR. MILLER: Gary Goetzelman?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Chris Benich?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Thank you. Jeff Pierce?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: And, Kathy Pierce?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: That means Mr. Cox will have 24 minutes.
And your PowerPoint is ready to go for you, sir.
MR. COX: Well, good afternoon, Commissioners.
MR. MILLER: Pull the mic in front of you, sir.
January 10, 2023
Page 213
MR. COX: Good afternoon, Commissioners, and thanks for
allowing me time to speak here today, and congratulations on 100
years of Collier County quality service to we the people. We
appreciate that.
Any my mom supports me on what I'm saying today. I can
assure you, I never asked for her support on anything because it was
always there 100 percent of the time. The love of my life.
My name is Mike Cox. I'm representing SaveCapri.org, which
is dedicated to stop rezoning on Isles of Capri. I'm
supporting/representing over 900 people that signed our petition that
want this project denied and also the six that did not sign.
The -- my dad built a house on Isles of Capri right across the bay
from the boat barn -- that's what we call it on Isles of Capri -- and
that was in 1982. I built a house right next to that one in 2017. So
we have some pretty good history. I'm a full-time resident. He
never was. But we've been there a while.
I am a deacon and also a board member of the Christian Church
of Capri. I'm a veteran of the U.S. Army. And I think you should
have your vacations, personally.
I took a poll on one issue. Mr. Yovanovich said that people
don't look up at tall buildings. So I think I can put that issue to bed,
because there were eight of us at the Island Gypsy having a few
drinks, and I just ask them, do people look up? And they all said
yes. So I'm glad we got past that one.
It was mentioned -- the food truck park was mentioned and
traffic. The neighborhood was split on the food truck park. There
were about as many people in favor as not. And we were certainly
amateurs at that time and trying to come up with anything we could
to latch onto to try to prevent another bar on the island that provides a
little bit of food.
The Tarpon Village that was mentioned had the ability to build
January 10, 2023
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quite a lot higher than they did. Tarpon Village is 25 feet to the tip
of the roof from the ground. But they did the right thing; they built
low-profile buildings. You may not even know where Tarpon
Village is because, if you're not looking for it, you're not going to see
it. It's stuck off to the side. It's all surrounded by large foliage, and
it is certainly not visible to the public.
The -- the sewers and culverts were offered to us by FCC. The
sewer line, they talked to -- according to the director of sewers on
Marco Island, the last time they talked to them was about a year ago.
We as a community do not want sewer service from Marco Island.
We get our water from Collier County. We are thrilled to death with
what Collier County has done for us with water, put in all new lines a
few years ago.
And Marco Island's having a lot of problem with their
wastewater, big, big problems. I went to one of their meetings, and
it's a mess. They, basically, just have too many people for their
system, and the cost to upgrade their system is probably more money
than they have. So they're in a heck of a spot with that right now.
So I think we just heard that we would be paying for the cost of
a new sewer line. The people on Isles of Capri understand that.
There will be a one-time assessment. That's the way it's always
happened in the past. So I think that's covered. I don't think we can
count that as a gift from FCC.
In my talks with the utility company, they said that nobody -- no
utility company will put a line in there to just service one little area.
That line has to be large enough to service the entire island plus
growth. Even if the island's all on septics right now, it's got to be
large enough to include everybody plus growth. So that's not a gift.
The culverts. We have a culvert committee. We feel pretty
confident we can get some grant money and that we can put those
culverts in. We can make that happen. That was a project that
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started many years back. We only got one culvert in at the time.
We always intended to put the other two in, and it just kind of got
dropped in a crack, and it didn't happen, but we're back on it, and
we're convinced that we can handle that. We can take care of that.
And they are needed. It transfers the water back and forth between
these bays, and that water gets stagnant if you don't open it up and let
it go through.
The fish also go back and forth and the dolphins and the
manatees. They all go through. We have a wonderful culvert right
now that just works really, really good, and it's just -- I can go out on
my dock and look at it. Kayakers go through there at low tide and
small boats. So I think we've got those issues covered.
So what you're seeing here is the way the people on Isles of
Capri see this. And I don't know how the 168 feet got in there,
because I took it out last night, but -- so here's the boat barn.
Fifty foot permitted, 75-foot actual. It is the second tallest building
on Isles of Capri. The only thing taller than that is the Twin
Dolphins, which is out on what we call condo point, the far
southwestern corner of the island. And I'll have a picture of that for
you later.
I drew this brown line in here to represent a line that we couldn't
agree with building them at that height. The yellow line is more of a
compatible line. Tarpon Village is 25 feet. Anything -- anything
that's on island -- the business island is 25 feet or below, and a good
part of it is below.
So the height allowed to build a residence on Isles of Capri is
35 feet actual. So right now there's a three-story home being built on
one of the streets not too far from me. It's concrete block all the way
up. They pretty well use their 35 feet. They didn't have enough
room to put a standard roof on it, so they have a really low-profile
roof with some parapet walls on the front and back so that you don't
January 10, 2023
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actually notice how low that is. But that's what they did to get under
that ruling.
This picture here is hard to see. That's in the top left corner, but
that's a nest, an egret's nest, and that's common on our island, as are
dolphins and manatees.
This is overhead of the petitioner's property. And the reason
this slide is in here is to point out that 1.2 acres has already been
developed, and there's no plans to change that. That's their marina.
And associated with that marina is, of course, parking. You have to
have a place to park the cars for their customers to go in and out, and
a retention pond. I know this is all going to get changed up if this
thing gets approved, but it's still going to require parking for the
marina.
So what they're actually working with here is about three acres,
because two of it is already required for the boat barn and associated
parking. So 3, 3.5 acres is what they're trying to put this project into.
Staff said on the front end they needed 10 acres to do this thing.
So they are way, way off here. They're trying to put 15 pounds of
nails into a five-pound box.
I already mentioned that's the second highest building on the
island.
So this is the way I see it. They're trying to put this great big
square peg into this very small round hole.
Here is an overhead that shows all of Isles of Capri. At the
bottom is Island 3, up here where you see the Numbers 12, 13, that is
the business island, the next island is Island 2, and then there's Island
1 with the yellow arrow pointing to Condo Point. Probably the best
view right there on Condo Point. People go down there with a glass
of wine and watch the sunset. It sets right over the gulf. Very
pretty.
So the condo towers. Quotes from planning staff. No
January 10, 2023
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cohesion with the community. Not in harmony with the
neighborhood. Noncompatible to the neighborhood. Interferes with
the rights of others. And at one point we were asked what would we
like. Well, what we'd really want would be Backwater Nick's to be
built back in there open to the public, and a marina. But what would
probably be more feasible for FCC would be just to do what they told
their neighborhood and our neighborhood what they would do years
ago shortly after Wilma wiped out Backwater Nick's and that marina
was to build another restaurant, another marina. You know, if they
want to put a fence around it, that's certainly their right. But, you
know, they can do -- they can do all of that just minus its residential
part of that.
So another overhead view here, this shows the towers and the
location that they were originally proposed in. As you can see, the
first one to the left is a single tower, then there's a double and then
another double tower.
So Fiddler's Creek has always been sort of an island within an
island. They built a big fence around their marina, and you have to
have a gate code to get in. You can't buy fuel. You can't get bait.
You can't get anything if you're not a club member.
I went over there with a one-gallon can trying to get some gas
for my lawnmower, and they refused to sell it to me.
This is a bad picture, but it reminds us of what we recently got
from Ian. And we were hit hard. I guess a question is, are we
prepared to evacuate another 200 people in addition to what we
already have? And in case of a fire, we certainly don't have the
equipment on Isles of Capri at our fire station to service high-rise
buildings. So -- and so what's the response time from Marco or from
wherever the ladder truck would come from? It's not going to be
very quick.
During Ian, we had a house that caught on fire on Island 3. The
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Fire Department went out there, and they were stuck. The truck got
grounded out, quit running, and that was it. They never got to the
fire. So these things can always happen.
So developer said that he was a good neighbor. Well, I guess
that's their opinion. We had rusted-out boat trailers piled up on that
empty lot that they're planning to develop now for years. I mean,
they were stacked on top of each other. A lot of these people from
up north bring their boats down, they buy a place in Fiddler's Creek,
so they're a part of the club, and they go over and they launch their
boats. And now where do you put the trailers? So there was quite a
stack of them. And people from up north don't typically buy
galvanized or aluminum trailers. They buy steel ones. That's the
norm up there. It doesn't take them long to rust out. A couple
years, and they're gone.
So another good neighbor thing was you see a bag of trash back
here, and this was pre-Ian that this bag of trash was left out on their
property.
So here you see the open boat rack in the background, so that's
their property. Here -- this was common all over the island, right
after Ian, that all appliances and cabinets and furniture all piled up the
side of the road. Thanks to Collier County, all that went away pretty
quickly. We were well pleased with that service.
So my question here is, why did they not -- they have all this
open property. As a good neighbor, why didn't they just -- they said
[sic], hey, you guys may need a place to stage some of these trash
trucks and to get rid of this stuff. We have a great big open lot over
here. We'd be more than happy for you to use that. Well, that
didn't happen. Did we ask for it, no, we didn't. They certainly
didn't offer it.
So this is my neighbor, and he's cleaning up some trash over on
Fiddler's property, digging them out of the mangroves, and there
January 10, 2023
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were kayaks and paddles and all kinds of stuff over there.
Parts -- pieces of docks. So that's my definition of a good neighbor.
So Mr. Yovanovich also mentioned that there were condos
bigger than what he was proposing that were just across the street.
Well, I think he was referring to Hammock Bay, and it's actually
three miles to Hammock Bay. You know, I'm from Texas.
Everything's big in Texas. We have big streets, but we have nothing
like that.
Okay. This I already talked about. This is -- this is what their
boat barn looks like, the fence around it. Gate code required to get
in. When I went in with my gas can, the gate happened to be open
for somebody that was taking a boat in or out of there. But nothing
there unless you're a member.
So a couple times we've talked about membership, and nobody
really had much of an answer. But this is what they currently have
online for membership, and it's 3,400 up to $4,100 depending on the
type of membership you have. But, you know, that's what it -- and
it's based on new homes. It's membership at one level if you buy a
new home within Fiddler's Creek and at another level if you buy a
resale home in Fiddler's Creek. So not open to everyone.
Here's an overhead view. It shows Condo Point.
Anything -- any condominium over two stories, 25 feet actual height
goes to Condo Point. That's where they are. I wrote in here Marco
Island, Marco River, so you could kind of get the idea. You see this
is on Island 1, the condominiums out here, Gulf of Mexico,
Intercoastal Canal, Johnson Bay.
So the above-25-feet condominiums are Marco Towers, 73 feet;
La Pen has multiple buildings, some of them are 60 feet, some of
them are 70 feet; Twin Dolphins is 94 feet. Twin Dolphins being the
only building that's higher than the boat barn. This area is an area
that was designed for high-rise condominiums.
January 10, 2023
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So as you well know, planning staff denied this. Planning
commissioners denied it, and today we're asking you to do the same.
There's been thousands of hours, hundreds of thousands of
dollars spent on this plan by the county and by we the people.
So we need the help of Collier County to protect our
neighborhood, our marine life, so please say no to rezoning.
Questions? Comments?
(No response.)
MR. COX: Okay. Well, that was record time. Thank you
very much.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go to the next speaker.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Captain Michael Cochran.
He'll be followed by John McNicholas. Oh, I'm sorry. Captain
Cochran was ceded additional time by Gail Cochran.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: And she is here. You'll have six minutes, sir.
CAPTAIN COCHRAN: Thank you.
I have in my notes that I was supposed to say "good morning,"
but it's almost goodnight. But thank you for your patience and your
concern. You've got a family just like we do, and we appreciate
your OT tonight.
Yeah, I'm Mike Cochran. I have a 100-ton license. I've had
that for a number of years. I'm also a master naturalist, and
Homeland Security has approved me. I actually teach the course
that people want to get their captain's license. It's about a 40-hour
course. You pass it, you'll get a credential which you can take to the
Coast Guard, and they'll vet you and approve you or disapprove you,
but that's your opportunity to get your captain license now.
My grandchildren are a little older now, but when I used to say
this a few years ago when they were a little younger, I said, but
January 10, 2023
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Poppy used to have a real job. And I did. I spent most of my career
with a Fortune 100 company. I retired when I was the international
marketing director. I've lived in several states, and I worked in over
70 countries. I've seen the good, I've seen the bad, and I've seen the
despicable. I'm not saying that's what we're having here, not at all.
My background from an education-wise, University of Georgia.
I have a BBA, a bachelor's of business administration in marketing
and a minor in psychology, and I also have an MBA from Harvard's
business school. And, yes, I was the only one there that had one
middle name. But I did escape -- I did escape with my degree, and I
was not brainwashed.
You can see -- and commissioners know, and I know
Commissioner LoCastro is out quite often. We're committed, we're
together, and we're united, and we're against it. And we've got this
many upstairs, and we've got this many at home that I'm sure stayed
on Skype all the way through this.
At all the county meetings, the employees have always said,
they had never seen this kind of uniform concern by one group like
what we have.
Now, before I get into something I want to say some things here,
and before I get too far I want to tell you a little bit about the
Capriers.
And I'm going to say some things. And I know the press is
here. Please don't misquote me. I am not making a threat. No, I'm
not making a threat. I'm making a commitment. We acknowledge
you paid for this property; we give you full credit for that. You paid
for it with hard-earned dollars. You have our blessings to develop
whatever you want on this property. And we say that in absolute
sincerity; however, we want you to develop as it was zoned.
If you choose to continue this bully approach, which is what it
is, we want you to know we're steadfast, and I resolve to stop it.
January 10, 2023
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Now, that's not a threat; that's just a commitment. I know there's
people from the newspaper here, and we would hope that you do
adhere to that for us.
Collier County staff defined this approach the first time as
totally incompatible with our island and asked FCC -- they asked
them to resubmit. They refused to do so.
September the 15th, 2022, just a few months ago, and about a
week before the hurricane, the Planning Commission had a meeting
and it was voted 6-to-1. Six in our favor; one to FCC. And we at
Isles of Capri, we're pleased with our six vote, and I'm sure the FCC,
you're pleased with your one vote.
If this were a prize fight, this meeting would have been stopped.
The referee would have declared a TKO in the first round. FCC sat
on their stool. They never got up. They never approached them
with what they would do to improve the situation. So this one
vote -- one vote to our six votes, we'll take our six and go forward
with it.
Thirteen years ago, my wife Gail and I purchased our house on
Isles of Capri. We had never really spent a lot of time there other
than going back and forth to see some friends we knew. We fell in
love with it. We found two houses we liked, one that I liked and one
that she liked. We bought the one she liked, and I am tickled to
death because she was right.
At the time I asked the real estate agent, and we were actually
standing right on this piece of property you're wanting to change.
And I said, what's the zoning here? And she explained to me that
what it was is business zoned. And I said, well, I know, you know,
Florida has a history that's not great about real estate. How easy is it
to change a zone? She said, well, between impossible and a
congressional hearing. I hope that's true.
What these people have done is not something that we like.
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Property owners, taxpayers, and voters, we depend on our elected
officials. This voting -- I mean, this constant change of zoning and
this, well, it was zoned improperly to start with, I don't believe that,
and some of the other excuses that they've used. We don't want it
rezoned. There's no reason to rezone it. Build what you want but
build it according to the zone. Build it -- be a good neighbor. I
mean, Mike did a great job of showing you.
I don't know what their definition of good neighbor is, but it's
certainly not what we've used. Property owners, taxpayers, voters,
we rely on our elected officials. When you look at this, it could be
used as bait and switch.
Now -- I've still got more time, another time.
I've been involved in some situations on bait and switch, and I
can tell you, as a business person, I've seen it successfully prosecuted
as fraud. I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm just saying that's
just what I said.
If the FCC project gets approved, it would create a private area
for boat docks, restaurants, and so-called private clubs. A group of
small islands, one road in and out, this development would engulf
virtually this entire business area.
Currently -- currently -- you're going to reset me, aren't you?
Okay, good.
MR. MILLER: No, sir. That was your six minutes.
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
CAPTAIN COCHRAN: All of our restaurants of our -- they're
great neighbors. Been there a long time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir?
CAPTAIN COCHRAN: They're very giving.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, no, you need to wrap it up. I
mean --
COMMISSIONER HALL: That was six.
January 10, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I mean, you had a large
introduction about your large Harvard background and University of
Georgia -- go Bulldogs -- but I just ask you to summarize --
CAPTAIN COCHRAN: Okay. But I have six minutes, so I do
have this that I want to finish --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
CAPTAIN COCHRAN: -- which I'll be happy to do, and I'll
hurry it up, because I did condense it half of what we were going to
do.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep. Please summarize, because
you're over six.
CAPTAIN COCHRAN: Oh, he was starting with six there, but
anyway.
The FCC and their lawyers and their one voter, that's the only
ones that really like this. We don't like anything about it. If the
project is approved, what they have actually done is bought a very
inexpensive piece of property. And if they had to go out and buy
this today at the new zoning, it would be millions of dollars more.
And I will assure you, if this domino falls -- because we've heard it.
We've been around -- there are other developers that want to do the
same thing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, please summarize.
CAPTAIN COCHRAN: Yes, we will.
Now, there's one thing that isn't in this that I do want to report.
But we had a situation just this week, I take my dog -- my wife and I
have a beautiful female Mastiff, and you walk where she wants to
walk early in the morning. I had an early meeting, so I took her for a
walk. And we walked over to where this development will be, if
approved, there's numbers, several numbers of burrowing owl areas
there. Yeah, several. Not just a handful, several. The storm
knocked down some of the perches. We actually -- the perches, they
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said. We put those back. But what really concerned me --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir. Sir, your time
is --
CAPTAIN COCHRAN: I've got to finish with this.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, your time is up. Sir, your
time is up. Out of respect for your other speakers --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
CAPTAIN COCHRAN: -- want to hear about the person trying
to put mothballs into the burrowing owls, see me, and I'll fill you in
on it.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is John McNicholas, and
he'll be followed by Virginia, I guess this is Hogg or Hogue. Hogg?
MS. HOGG: Hogg.
MR. MILLER: Hogg.
MR. McNICHOLAS: Good evening, Commissioners. My
name is John McNicholas. My wife and I have lived on the Isles of
Capri for about 30 years.
The petitioners ask you to bless the installation of a massive
completely nonconforming, noncompatible high-rise city in our midst
which will ultimately lead to a full bisection of Capri with a canyon
of condo towers destroying our small village atmosphere.
County staff, the professionals and arbitrators in zoning, land
use, permitting, et cetera, recommended denying the request, which
was followed by the Planning Commission members emphatic formal
6-to-1 denial of the request. Their decision is the perfect example of
what zoning was intended to do: Maintain the character of the
neighborhood as the current property owners require and signed up
for when they purchased here.
Our residents relied on the protection of the existing C-3 zoning
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that limits the kind of residential -- I'm sorry -- the kind of
development to low-rise two- and three-story retail stores,
restaurants, et cetera. The petitioner also accepted this C-3 zoning
inherently when he purchased the property.
There's been a lot of talk about the GMP or Growth
Management Plan, and it's seemingly an attempt to use that to justify
what they intend to do.
I really suspect, though, that the Growth Management Plan was
not geared for a case like this. I suspect it was geared to plan an
empty acreage type of situation where you can build a whole
community. We're a mature community with one parcel of land left,
and to try to bend the Growth Management Plan and at the same time
bend us to meet in the middle somewhere, I just don't understand it; I
don't see it.
The current C-3 zoning for the property is in keeping with what
the community accepted and should remain in place. We implore
you to just say no to this request.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Virginia Hogg.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ms. Hall -- is Ms. Hall here?
MR. MILLER: Hogg.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Hogg, okay.
MR. MILLER: I will remind speakers, please go ahead and
queue up at the second podium if you can. And she'll be followed
by Rosemary Langkawel.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, before you speak, I just
want to take just a moment. First of all, if everybody would turn off
their cell phones. I mean, we've said it a couple times before.
Thank you.
I'm struggling with something up here, because I know the
citizens of Isles of Capri. It's in my district. I know that -- and I'm
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speaking to my commissioner colleagues here, because I just want to
see if you have an appetite for this conversation. The strategy of
what they're telling us, and the Planning Commission, you know,
voted 6-1, and everything they're saying is 100 percent correct. The
problem is we're considering a totally different presentation than
what the Planning Commission got.
So I'm not saying what the Planning Commission said was moot,
but we don't have the benefit of their expertise because this is a
totally different plan. I've only served for two years, so I certainly
don't have the seniority that Commissioner Saunders and
Commissioner McDaniel have, and I don't know, you know, how
unique this situation is, and I'm not making any type of suggestions.
But I'm feeling uneasy that the citizens of my community are coming
up here prepared to speak with us. The problem is, I just -- I feel
like we're all at a little bit of a disadvantage because their argument is
the Planning Commission said 6-1. Six, well -- but they voted on
168 feet, 108 units, 14 stories.
And so I don't know if we can just look past that, but I just -- I
just feel -- I'm just wondering if anybody shares that view or, we just,
you know, continue to -- you know, continue to move forward.
Like I said, I'm not offering anything, but a lot of the supporting
conversation is not about what we're considering now. It's about
what we all heard, what I heard in September, along with you all,
when I watched the Planning Commission. So I'm just wondering if
other commissioners -- Commissioner Hall's lit up here. Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Yes, Chairman. I concur. And
what was presented by the applicant is a totally different bird than
what was denied by the Planning Commission. So my question
is -- and I just have a question. You know, I'm -- plain talk is easiest
understood with me.
Would it be unfair to send this back, send the new proposal back
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to the Planning Commission --
(Applause.)
MS. HOGG: You have to.
COMMISSIONER HALL: -- so that we get -- so that they get
a fair shake at the Planning Commission with their changes, and they
get a fair shake at what the Planning Commission actually says based
on the accurate information?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, you know, I mentioned
that early on when we were in discussions with the applicant and our
staff, and I think that we probably should continue on with the
hearing and continue on with the public speaking aspect of it.
Certainly, give the applicant a chance to speak. But we're -- we're
out of order with where we're at right now. But that's how I feel
about this. I mean, we moved into the public speaking portion.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I understand that. I also think that
we all take great pride, and this is about dialoguing. And, you know,
you build something on a piece of property here, and it's like the
pyramids; it's going to be there for 1,000 years. And so sitting
through 70 speakers that all tell me -- and I'm just speaking for me.
That's why I want to see if there's other viewpoints here -- telling
what the Planning Commission said, but we're sitting here on a
totally different, you know, set of algorithms here, set of
measurements.
I mean, we're all smart enough to be able to differentiate
between the two, but it's just a concern I have. I'm not
offering -- I'm not saying it needs to go back to the Planning
Commission. I just want to hear your thoughts. And we might be a
little bit out of order, but I don't think we vote on Isles of Capri issues
five times a week. So this is one that maybe sometimes being a little
bit of out of the order to make sure that we're digesting all of this
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properly, and I want to hear your views.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and my view is it
may be by the time we're done hearing the public and ask our
questions that we do remand it back to the Planning Commission.
I -- from what I heard -- what I heard you say, this isn't -- and I've
talked to some of our residents. And this isn't a secret. There's
something going to happen with this piece of property.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: What we have to weigh is
what's best for our county at large and how we, in fact, manage the
change that occurred from the Planning Commission over to here,
and are we going to hear new information if we were to remand it
back to the Planning Commission, and I'm not there yet. I mean --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm not either.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- that was a statement
that -- you know, that I brought up -- that I brought up early on before
we went to the public comment, so...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I understand
where you're coming from, and you're certainly not -- certainly not
out of order. We have that option to send this back to the Planning
Commission. We have the option to continue some discussions with
the developer.
I, personally, would like to continue with the public hearing.
I'm not sure how I'll vote on this, but I am persuaded that our staff is
comfortable with this. That is a major change. But I'd like to go
ahead and hear the public hearing, and then let's have that discussion
as to whether we want to send it back or not. I don't want to send it
back with the -- with the purpose of just delaying things. And so I
think when we finish the hearing, we can make a decision as to
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whether we have sufficient information to approve this or we can
send it back.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And I agree 100 percent. I
wanted just a value of discussion. I don't think that costs us
anything. This is an important topic, and you've offered that.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And just to further the point,
I mean, I have some significant questions for the developer and for
our staff that's going to help me through the process as to what we, in
fact, end up doing.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So will I.
Okay. Ma'am, you have the floor.
MS. HOGG: Good afternoon. My name is Virginia Hogg, and
I have lived on the Isles of Capri for more than 20 years. We came
to Marco Island in the '80s and enjoyed a small island lifestyle. We
moved at the turn of the century to escape the traffic and
development. Before coming to the isles, we did our homework,
including the zoning laws at 50-foot height.
I had prepared a statement which would take less than a minute
and a half. And I feel that the good people here have spent hours
and hours reading over the proposal, and now we have a substantial
change.
I enjoyed a 35-year professional career, and I was known for my
problem-solving skills. I do not fly by the seat of my pants, so it's
impossible to make remarks at rebuttal to a proposal that is a
substantial change that I hadn't -- most of the people have not heard
before an hour ago.
I held my calm through eight-and-a-half hours since 8:30 this
morning until the presentation when I was hearing more information
than I could process by people naming [sic] a substantial change. In
spite of this, I'll try address a couple of issues, if I can remember
January 10, 2023
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them verbally. As I say, I don't operate this way.
Density -- and sometimes -- if you wonder about Tarpon, they
are small units; 800 to a thousand feet. So the density's going to be
very thick there. These are probably, I would guess, around
30 -- 3,000 square feet per unit, maybe even more.
When they figure density, as you all know, you would figure it
on the footprint of the building plus the greenery around. Keep in
mind, we're dealing with a restaurant, a two-car -- a two-story urban
parking garage with a pool on top, and a ship store and whatever else.
I think that I've covered everything. Those have been included in the
acreage for the density. Normally, the density is included with the
green space around the footprint.
Marco Island was mentioned. Marco Island is a community of
almost 30,000 people. It is more urban. We're talking about several
tiny isles with one road in and one road out, as has already been
mentioned.
Each commissioner has gotten my letter saying we need over
500 parking spaces. I think the airport second-story undercover
garage holds between 150 and 200 cars.
I just ask, how many spaces were underneath the residential
thing? They couldn't tell me. They said there was going to be
parking for restaurants and so forth.
So I urge you to not do an end run with the planning board. We
would be basing it on the comments of one professional. He's -- I'm
sure he's good, but he's a nonelected professional worker.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, ma'am.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Rosemary Langkawel,
followed by Kelly Callahan.
MS. LANGKAWEL: Good morning. My name is Rosemary
Langkawel. I live on the Isles of Capri since 1997.
January 10, 2023
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This is a completely different plan than we had before. I think
it's cute that they've come forward without it going to the planning
board.
I'm a little concerned about a couple of things that they
mentioned. Again, I'm kind of flying on the seat of my pants here.
They talked about the $3.2 million benefit the island's going to get
with the culverts and the sewer line. Lest we forget the sewer line is
going to their project. The project couldn't be there without the
sewer line. That is of little to no benefit to the island. It will benefit
Island 4 houses, maybe, if they make it big enough and they allow
that, but it's not going to handle the residents -- the two-thirds of the
island residents that are on Island 1 and on Island 2. And, no, our
toilets aren't exploding. And Hurricane Ian doesn't matter.
When they proposed the initial proposal, one of the things they
mentioned was, where's the water runoff going to go? Because
they've now said they're going to go even higher on their foundation.
That water has to go somewhere.
Water culverts was their -- was that the term? "Water culverts"
was the term that they used in the last presentation. That's nice, but I
think we've learned in Hurricane Ian that may or may not be
sufficient. There isn't a house on Isles of Capri that was not affected
in some way, albeit some of them minor.
My other issue with the island is if we start changing the zoning
on this particular property, we have the property where the food truck
park was going to go. Who's to say you're not going to change that
zoning? Which, if I was -- as an active realtor and I was
representing them, I'd be pushing for this, because you can change
that now. And who's to say that where Tarpon Village is right now
that isn't going to get bought out, or some of our other restaurants?
And, then, to get to the main part of our island, we're going to
have to go through, as has already been stated, a tower canyon. If
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you don't know what that feels like, I suggest you go to Naples
Square. Have you driven through Naples Square? Absolutely
beautiful buildings. The units inside are gorgeous. But when you
drive through it, it's driving through a canyon.
So to get from Island 4 through Island 3, the business district, to
Island 2 and Island 1 where two-thirds of our population lives, you
have to drive through now -- what would be a commercial canyon.
I'm a little upset by that. I think that's the intent of the island.
And, yes, while Doc Loach was from the East Coast, lest I
remind you, if you read his initial development plan, his view was to
build a small fishing island, which is why the lots -- the residential
lots are 60 feet wide on most of the island. It's because he wanted a
quaint fishing village. That was the intent of that plan.
All of our existing condominiums now are in condominium
areas that are not affected by the rest of the island. Putting a
condominium development of this size smack in the middle of the
island is going to have an effect on several things. Besides driving
through this canyon, you've now eliminated the ability for our fire
department to get from Island 2 back to Island 4 where we have more
residents and where we did have the fire during the storm.
I encourage you to either send this back to the planning board or
to vote against it at this point. I think they should build something.
This just isn't it.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Kelly Callahan. She'll be
followed by Michael Korman.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He's not here.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Kelly had to go to work.
MR. MILLER: Garret FX Beyrent.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He's gone, too.
MR. MILLER: He's in El Paso. Michaela Kendall. Oh, Mike
January 10, 2023
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Korman is here. Okay, Michael. And then Michaela Kendall will
follow Michael.
MR. KORMAN: Thank you.
Thank you, Commissioners, for the opportunity to speak today.
My name is Michael Korman, resident of 111 Capri Boulevard, a
relatively newer resident, and I've been handling the reconstruction of
the property following Ian.
I just wanted to take a moment and thank the board, the staff, for
having the Marco Island permit center. I actually -- and I would
encourage our residents to get permits. We got our permit in one
day. And I had our first inspections yesterday.
So the county has been -- and I've been in property development
for 36 years. The county has been exceptionally responsive to our
needs, and I thank them for that, especially Gage Daly over at the
Marco Island permit center.
I used to be a plan commissioner. I've been parts of hundreds
of developments with Target and with the military across the USA,
and never before have I seen a development that's so out of character
for an area. Specifically I mentioned this during the neighborhood
information meeting last year. And the quote was, this site is located
in an area already having residential and commercial development at
densities and intensities comparable to that proposed. I could not
disagree with that more. It just is not factually true, but that was in
their application, and I think it's unfortunate.
The other thing, as a former planning commissioner, I have been
surprised that the applicant has been given the opportunity,
essentially, to change his proposal on the fly. That seems to me to
be -- it's going to be very difficult for us as the residents to be able to
fully understand the comprehensive nature of the project if we don't
have staff reviewing it, and then the plan commission reviewing it
and then this body reviewing it.
January 10, 2023
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As also an elected official in my community, we talk about
transparency all the time. And I'm sure in your recent election
campaigns transparency was a big part of the conversation.
So I would encourage you to think about the fact that this is,
unfortunately, not a transparent process. The applicant was given
the opportunity to send this back for review and declined that
opportunity, as I am told. They decided to push forward to the plan
commission. I would also say, I would be interested to know,
generally, how many plans are declined by the plan commission,
especially at 6-1, that actually end up before this body. I would
suggest that's a very low number, probably in the handfuls of
projects, especially of this size.
I have not heard anyone mention Rookery Bay. I looked at one
of the signs out here, and it talked about it being developed in 1962
as part of the conservation program. I'm, obviously, concerned
about that.
And, finally, I'd like to acknowledge -- I don't know if you're
able to tell us how many people are on Zoom or how many people are
in the overflow rooms, but I think it would be beneficial for us to
know the comprehensive nature of the number of residents that are
engaged in this process. It's pretty substantial. I've never quite seen
anything like it in all my years of property development.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, why don't you give us
that number.
MR. MILLER: Sure. We had 68 to 70 speakers registered;
that included the 15 people who are on Zoom all registered to speak
on this item. That's the 15 people -- I'm sorry. Not all of them are
speaking, but they're all from the Isles of Capri issue. All of the
overflow rooms have been cleared, so all of the people are in the
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room, okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't think any commissioner
here wants to correct or make a comment on any individual speaker,
but I just feel the need, because I know the gentleman back there.
When something goes to the Planning Commission, 6-1, however the
split is, it does come to us. So it's not a matter of they kill it there
and say this isn't worth coming to the commissioners. They're a
vetting process, and they actually don't vote on anything. They vote
on a recommendation of about what comes to us. So I want to
clarify that.
Some other people have said some things that I think all of us
here are making notes on, but I just wanted to clarify that. And I do
appreciate how hard you've worked to get your permits and the
shout-out. It's not lost on the staff here. A lot of those people that
you're commenting on are right here, and I thank you for those
comments, sir.
Ma'am.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Michaela Kendall. She's
been ceded three additional minutes from Gary -- I'm not going to
even try to say your last name -- Huck. And she will be followed by
Jeanette Atkinson.
MS. KENDALL: Hello. My name is Michaela Kendall, and I
was born and raised here in Southwest Florida, and I'm here to
represent the Rainbow Island Warriors. We are a non-profit that is
based in Isles of Capri, and our main concern is advocating for the
veterans who have served for our country. But along with a few
other things is the environment and our backyard.
The last speaker mentioned Rookery Bay, and one of the things
that we are very concerned about when it comes to this rezone is the
effect that it's going to have on the environment.
We've all seen Ian. That was an effect, I believe, of the climate
January 10, 2023
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change. It's a real problem, and we need to take control of that.
How do you use this?
MR. MILLER: There's a keyboard. There's a keyboard that
slides out.
MS. KENDALL: Oh, thank you. Okay.
So our biggest issues with this rezoning, again, is, like I said, the
density increase and the impact that it will have on the environment.
Earlier today someone had said that there are 400- to 5,000 [sic]
residents in Collier County already. By adding a high-rise, you're
just inviting more, honestly, snowbirds to come down to rent out
these apartments for half the year. For half the year, that's when our
roads are going to be busy. That's when they're going to be -- there's
going to be more trash. It's just, I feel, like, a product of having a
large amount of people.
Our mission is to reflood the river of grass, as well as, you
know, supporting the veterans along the way. We have the rainbow
island. If you know Gary's property, it's just that little island right
off the side. We want to be able to have that and keep that as a
natural product of the environment. We want to be able to preserve
it for what it is. We want to be able to protect our backyard.
I've got this little diagram on the screen here, and it's a -- it's a
weather cycle. If you don't know how -- the water cycle, pretty easy.
The sun heats up the water, it evaporates, we get cloud coverage, and
then we get rain. Back when we had the river of grass, we could
expect rainstorms in the summer like clockwork. Every day, same
time. That's because the sun would heat the river of grass, the
standing water that's only about three feet, because it was easier to
heat that. It takes less time for that to be heated as opposed to the
Gulf of Mexico. To heat the Gulf of Mexico, deeper water. Water
has a high heat capacity. It means it takes longer to change the
temperature. That is part of the reason why we've been having the
January 10, 2023
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erratic rainstorms, stuff like Ian.
And then many of you have probably seen Gary walking around
today with our flag. This is a Chile flag from the Wiphala people.
This flag represents what we're trying to do here. The people of
Chile, they've stopped the developers from coming in and, basically,
destroying their natural resources.
They're still fighting the battle, though. Gary's been in Chile
recently. He had seen a glacier. Later, just a few weeks later, they
get a heat wave. Now the glacier is a waterfall. That is not
supposed to do that.
We also, many of us here, know that the rainbow is supposed to
represent God's promise to never flood the earth again. A rainbow is
also the effect of, you know, light filtering through the raindrops. If
we are able to protect our environment, restore it, then we'll be able
to bring back the rainbows.
Today I was reading in the newspaper, as Gary was getting his
car registration sorted, and one of the articles was about the gopher
tortoises. We all know that those are protected species and very
beloved by the community, at least I love them. Those, along with
the burrowing owls, are all going to be affected with an increase in
density and with the building and construction of a high-rise.
That is all I have. I just want to reiterate our stance is that we
think this is going to be a bad idea for the environment, and we want
to know what the solutions are going to be to accommodate the
changes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Our next speaker is -- oh, I'm sorry. Your next
speaker's Jeanette Atkinson.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Who's the speaker after that,
Mr. Miller?
January 10, 2023
Page 239
MR. MILLER: Willard Giansanti. I hope I'm saying that
correct.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Willard here?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Joan Coyne.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Joan, if you just would queue up at
the other podium when you get a chance, and we'll --
MR. MILLER: Joan's actually going to be next. We don't
have anyone ahead of her at this point. And she will be followed by
Ronald Helsel. Is Ronald still here?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes, over there.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Hi, Joan.
MS. COYNE: Hello. My name is Joan Coyne, and I live at
109 West Pago Pago Drive.
I'm going to read this because I'm nervous. When my husband
and I first visited the Isles of Capri, we knew this was where we
wanted to spend our retirement. We were going to be able to
purchase a house that didn't look exactly like all the other houses in
the neighborhood. We could live on a bay and have our boat right
outside our back door.
We rented on the isles for approximately four years, and that's
when we were sure we were in the neighborhood that we wanted to
live in. We found it was ideal for us.
I, along with many residents, became involved with the
community when several projects were being proposed that were not
the choice of the majority of the residents. That was of the
beginning of my community involvement, and that is what has
brought me and all of us here today.
In October of 2021, we were made aware of a project that was
being planned for the commercial area of the isles to build several
condo buildings. We have spent many hours researching the
January 10, 2023
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problem. We've attended many meetings listening to all sides of the
issue. We decided very early on we were going to help defeat this
project. It is not compatible with the community.
It would be necessary to make residents aware of what was
being planned. We asked residents to join in this project. We
decided to go door to door to every house or condo and ask everyone
or anyone to sign a petition against this project. I have
approximately a thousand signatures on these petitions that I'm going
to present to you today. We have approximately 1,100 in-season
residents and approximately 940 year-round residents on the isles.
I, personally, had about six residents who said they did not
oppose this project.
Oh, let's see. I, along with others who have spent many hours
trying to understand all the acronyms of the county -- I have in my
book all of them. The big one for me was GMP, Growth
Management Plan, and what it means to the residents as well as the
governing body of county. This is the Constitution -- like the
Constitution of the United States, it should not be tampered with for
one -- for one interested group.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, please summarize.
MS. COYNE: Okay. Please limit government by saying no to
this amendment and this one special interest group.
Thank you for listening.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Ronald Helsel. He'll be
followed by George J. Merkling. Mr. Helsel's been ceded additional
time from David Beatty --
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: -- or Beatty. Thank you.
Craig A. Braun.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: And John Boerner.
January 10, 2023
Page 241
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: So he will have 12 minutes and, again, will be
followed by George J. Merkling.
MR. HELSEL: I don't have 12 minutes, so you're good, all
right.
My wife and myself are owners of 404 and 400 Cristobal Street.
Today you've heard from members in the organization from Capri
community that are opposed to the changing zoning that would allow
the high-rise building boom on the Isles of Capri. My presentation is
more from a personal perspective.
My home is what you would call an adjoining property owner.
I'm the only one that I know of right now that's willing to speak or
say anything, but this is where my home is located. And you see the
arrow pointing directly over to where the condominiums would be.
My wife and I purchased our dream retirement home, like, 12 years
ago on this tiny little piece of Olde Florida after looking at a lot of
different places.
Recently we also acquired the property next to us so, as I said,
we own two properties. As you can see from the slide, we are
adjoining property owners to FCC property and less that 400 feet
away from the proposed tri towers. We stand to be personally the
most directly affected both in terms of the loss of our retirement
sense of value and our personal investment. We spent a lot of time
making our retirement home a little piece of Olde Florida, which will
be wiped out by the proposed change in zoning. I don't think anyone
on this board is naive enough to believe that if you pass this through
and change this zoning, the rest of this business isle is [sic] going to
be condominiums in the next 10 years. That's going to happen.
(Applause.)
MR. HELSEL: I sat there with that paper folded up so long,
now it's stuck together.
January 10, 2023
Page 242
The remains of the commercial marina were present when we
purchased the property in 2009, and I did the research to see what
that was about. We wanted to know what the zoning was with the
understanding that anyone that owned that type of property was going
to do something with it some day. After looking at the Corps of
Engineers permit that FCC Beach and Yacht had in place to rebuild a
30-slip marina, then looking at the proposed model of the site plan,
we were and still are comfortable with having them as a neighbor.
Let's talk about the views. In the original NIMs in the failed
Grady Minor presentation to the Planning Commission, they noted
that no one's views would be affected. I'm not getting that feeling as
you take a look at the views from our waterfront.
This was the slide Grady Minor used to show that nobody's view
would be affected. This is taken over by where Mr. Cox lives, and
that's the boathouse in the background there. That's my house on the
other side of the boat. So maybe not quite exactly right.
Here's another photo from the NIMs that we participated on
Zoom which left us stunned with the request to rezone and allow an
increase in density to more than 750 percent above the current code
in the high-hazard area. Clearly, they cannot do this unless they
build an exceptionally tall building with multiple stories. I had to
scratch out the 13-story building because it got changed, all right.
When you factor in the parking garage, it was 13 stories. Now
we're told by the county code the parking garage does not count as a
floor, but it does for me, and it does in the law of physics. It's there,
so...
So for comparison, the tallest building in the Collier County
Government campus is the building we're in right now, okay. So
now -- and they changed it to eight stories, and you don't have a
parking garage underneath this, so they're going to put a building up
taller than this building if the stories work out right. I didn't have
January 10, 2023
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time to research that properly because we-all just learned about the
change along with, well, everybody else in the room. You
apparently heard about it in the last couple of days.
Let's see. I lost track of where I'm at now. What they're
proposing is much like the high-rise area of Marco or what I call
condo row in Naples. I noticed what we call the area of Olde Naples
and the surrounding area around here, there's a lot of construction.
There's a lot of new construction. I don't see any towers.
In Olde Naples, you don't have -- you're not letting them build
the towers, are you? You've got, like, four-story buildings down
there. What have you got going on over here? They're, like, three
stories.
You're trying to keep Olde Naples kind of like Olde Naples as
much as possible. We like that on Capri, too. We think it's a
special place. Our people -- the reason people chose to purchase,
live, stay, or rent on the Isles of Capri is our relaxed lifestyle and
sense of small-town community. We're still fortunate to have that
old town feel that is as being wiped out by development across the
state. Sometimes it's by developers. Sometimes it's by Mother
Nature, as you recently saw in the Fort Beach -- Fort Myers Beach
area with Ian. Once it's gone, it's never coming back. You're not
getting Olde Florida back once it's wiped out.
This was our expectation when I did the research. We were
permitted to go on the property prior to making the investment in our
retirement home. I don't see how you can put a lot of faith in what
FCC proposes if they promote one concept for over 15 years, show it
as a part of what you get when you join the Tarpon Club in their
showroom, then abandon it for a major development that's not even
close to the original plan because we are now in the midst of a real
estate boom.
Are you aware they have 23 acres of vacant land right up there
January 10, 2023
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in Fiddler's Creek? They could put a larger development than this
up there, and they won't even need to put a new gate up. They
already have one up there. So I have no idea if they're going to use
this property for something or not. I just pass it every day; I see it
there. There's 23 acres sitting right there on their property right on
951 that they would probably not have any opposition with because,
well, it's their neighborhood. It's Fiddler's Creek development.
Let's talk about compatibility. That was the big thing. Now,
we've gotten a lot of different things going on right now because
things got changed from the Planning Commission meeting. Half of
my presentation that I had was sort of based around what I learned in
that presentation meeting, which I spent time there. I looked at it. I
watched it on Zoom one time, but now the facts are different. We
have a completely new presentation and a completely new
everything, basically.
And then there's the high-end and luxurious condominiums.
They are. There's no doubt that Fiddler's Creek/FCC is one of
probably the premier developers in this area of Florida. They build
really beautiful, nice stuff.
We're a little old fishing village. That's really what we are. I
don't care if you don't think we are; we are. We like it that way.
People travel around in our island in golf carts. They relax in our
restaurants. They go out charter fishing. They enjoy the bocce
courts. The kids ride bikes around the neighborhood, and so on and
so on. It's just -- it's a small-town community feel that we're not
going to keep if this happens.
Now, do I expect them -- do I expect them to go back and build
this? Well, I got it all screwed up now. Do I expect them to go
back and go build the original concept that they had there with the
marina? The marina's been permitted since I bought my house. I
get a -- I get a notice of renewal of their application for it every five
January 10, 2023
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years from the Corps of Engineers. I knew that was going in there.
I thought they were going to build a club like this, which that fits the
community. Nobody's going to argue about something like that.
Do I think they're going to build that now? Probably not, because
it's really not very profitable. And they're here for the money. I get
that. I'm in business, too. It's just that what they've gone is so far
away from where we're at, it just doesn't seem reasonable for us in
our community. It's not a good fit.
I urge you to either vote it down completely or, at the very
minimum, send this back to the Planning Commission so we can
work through that process again. We were very involved. We'd
have a lot more data to come back and speak intelligently about it.
Everybody's speech here that they're having is kind of busted up
because they don't have the facts. So that's my thoughts on it.
Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is George Merkling. He'll
be followed by Glen Fick. Mr. Merkling has been ceded three
additional minutes from Tad Wallen.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: And he is present here in the room. You'll
have six minutes, sir.
MR. MERKLING: Thank you for hearing me today,
Commissioners. I, too, have my two speeches all busted up.
I'd like to correct a little math situation that we heard about the
generous offer of a gift for affordable housing. When I added up the
number of units -- I know I'm only supposed to talk to you. When I
added up the number of units, I believe there was 68 in the new
proposal. And if that's multiplied by $5,000, that's 340,000.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's 108; 108 units.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It's 108 units.
MR. MERKLING: Well, we did the math when
January 10, 2023
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Mr. Yovanovich told us how many floors were going to be devoted to
units, 108 was the original proposal. The way he described the
number of units, it came out to 68. But I'll stand corrected on that.
The other public benefit was sewers, and this I'm going to
explain just a little bit differently. There already is a pressure sewer
line all the way from Condo Point all the way over to Marco Island
Sewer Authority. It's already there. It's 4-inch. It can handle
probably five times more than it's got right now. A 4-inch pressure
line can handle a lot of sewer, but it won't handle enough to satisfy
Marco Island because they've told FCC what the construction will
have to be if they're going to use Marco Island Sewer. That sewer
line, by their mandate, has to be enough -- and you've heard this -- for
the whole island. Even if they only build a sewer line just big
enough for them, it would probably be a 6-inch sewer line.
Now, the cost to upgrade from a 6-inch sewer line -- and we're
not doing the whole island now. We're only doing from their new
apartments down to the intersection of 951 and 952. The only
difference in the cost, when you think about it, is the cost to increase
a piece of plastic pipe from 6-inch diameter to 8-inch diameter. The
permits are the same. The excavation is the same. The roadway
and traffic disruption is the same. I don't believe you have a
multi-million-dollar benefit there, and the other benefit is two
culverts across the road. It doesn't add up to that $3.4 million that
was mentioned.
As far as the blindsiding, I might not have been nearly as
blindsided as some because I had the fortune to have a meeting with a
commissioner yesterday, and I was told that the size of the project
was being changed considerably, not enough for me or any of the
other people in this room; however, the public has not had the benefit
of a notice in the newspaper describing this project. It's required. I
had to go through the same thing to get a change on my dock at my
January 10, 2023
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house. I had to publish a notice in the newspaper of my project.
The notice in the newspaper describing this project doesn't describe
the one that was mentioned today. It's a different project.
The staff had a year and a half to deliberate and go down point
by point by point of 19 points of consideration they're required to
check off before a change can be made in zoning or in dwelling units
per acre. That took them about a year and a half to do.
Now, Mr. Bosi -- and I've got to tell you, he's been a great help
to us in explaining to my wife Joan and myself just how to read all
these acronyms and what's going on here. We're not professionals in
development. But Mr. Bosi's had a month, maybe, to reconsider all
this when it took him a year and a half the first time around with the
full staff. I don't believe they've had, even though he did -- I'm sorry
to argue with you, Mr. Bosi, but I don't believe you gave the same
consideration to the new project that you did to the original project.
Number 3, the Collier County Planning Commission, they've
had no opportunity to look at this new project.
I hate to say it, but you're giving us a lot of fodder for appeal if
this thing goes the wrong way. And that, again, is not a threat.
That's just what's happening.
So I'm going to give you a suggestion. You've come pretty
close to it when you had your talk right in the middle of our public
hearing here. I'm going to give you a suggestion that you take a vote
on the project that we know about that we were presented with and
defeat it, and that's the end of it. If the petitioner chooses to present
a new project, you have a process. You start with notification, you
do a PL, you fill out your application and start going, but this is a
different project. I don't see how you can take the project that was
shown to the world and not vote on it. And I guess I'm out of time.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, your meeting yesterday was
January 10, 2023
Page 248
with -- sir? Sir, your meeting yesterday was with Commissioner
McDaniel?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It was.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. I just didn't know if you
wanted to comment and just -- you know, I don't want to correct
every single point, but the process of how the applicant's allowed to
make some changes and still for it to go forward, that us voting on
what just went to the Planning Commission may or may not be an
option.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, and that may have been
where George was misled, because I interpreted the reduction in the
height to also a density reduction, which isn't what the applicant's
come forward with. They're keeping the same amount of units that
they had in their original application. They've just reduced the
height; is that correct?
MR. YOVANOVICH: We haven't gotten back up for rebuttal,
sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir?
MR. YOVANOVICH: When we get to rebuttal, if that's okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And I may have
miscommunicated that, George. You were calculating the 5,000 per
unit for the affordable housing contribution that they offered up at the
end of their presentation, and I may have misspoke to you yesterday.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And what I just wanted to add is,
you know, because we're having open conversation here, and I just
want to make sure that we're talking accurately. You know, your
proposal's well respected on us voting on the 168 feet but, actually, in
reality, that's not an option that we have. The applicant does have
the ability after the Planning Commission, especially when they get
direction, that, hey, we vote 6-1, we think you should go back to the
drawing board, but it still goes forward to us, and we hear what the
January 10, 2023
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current proposal is. So I respect your recommendation to us, but it's
not an option for us to vote on what the, you know, Planning
Commission heard. The applicant does have the ability to make
adjustments and to have it, you know, come to us with those
adjustments.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Glen Fick. He'll be
followed by Sheela Reasoner.
MR. FICK: Hello. I just have some random thoughts because
many of them have already been stated. I don't want to be
redundant.
But the first thought is since the very beginning, the first NIM
meeting I attended last year, I've had this really bad feeling in my gut,
and part of that feeling continues to be exacerbated by the fact that
the petitioner seems to feel like they know what's better for Capriers
than we do, and that feeling just continues every single meeting that
we attend, that their shiny buildings are what we want; they're going
to make our islands better than they are. I don't feel that way.
And as far as a horse of a different color, instead of a 168-foot
horse, now it's a 122-foot horse, but it's still a horse that I don't want
and I don't think many of my neighbors want on our island.
So do the right thing -- excuse me. Do the right thing, vote
against this.
One of the other things I would like to consider, on the traffic,
only 108, or however many units there are going to be, so that's not
going to create much traffic, but a 10,000-square-foot restaurant with
200 seats, is there a restaurant that might go on Marco Island? I
don't think so. And how many private additional -- how many
additional memberships are you going to have to sell to support a
10,000-square-foot 200-seat restaurant? I think it's more traffic than
the traffic report that was done last February.
And as far as being able to support something because there's
January 10, 2023
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only however many residents we say there are to support commercial,
has anyone ever tried to get into the Island Gypsy Cafe during the
season? Of course, people are coming from outside the island to
support our local businesses that exist and, of course, that will happen
in the future if a 10,000-square-foot restaurant is built.
So please vote no to this. My gut feels awful about this.
Please listen to your gut.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Sheela Reasoner. She'll
be followed by Jeri Neuhaus.
Ms. Reasoner's been ceded three additional minutes from
Michael Davidson. Is Michael --
MR. DAVIDSON: Yes.
MR. MILLER: Oh, okay. You'll have six minutes, ma'am.
MS. REASONER: Good evening, Commissioners. My name
is Sheela Reasoner. And I've been a part of Isles of Capri
community since 2009. The reason I was drawn to the island was
because it reminds me of where I grew up on the west coast of
Ireland.
Like everybody else, my speech has been blown out of the
water, so I'm going to run it and see how I get on. Not my speech.
I'm flying by the seat of my pants here.
We in Capri are a motley crew, but we do somehow understand
the uniqueness within our community which, in turn, unites us
together whenever necessary to preserve our little piece of paradise.
This project has consumed my life as it has done with, I'm sure,
many people on the island. The reason for this is that I feel that this
development will destroy the very essence of Capri not just for me,
but for the hundreds of people that come to the island, go to the
restaurants, go out on Cool Beans to watch the sunset, charter a
fishing boat, go out to the water via boat, kayak, or jet ski.
January 10, 2023
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I think it's unfair to bring up the food truck park thing. That's
not fair in this debate, I'm sorry, because a majority of the people on
the island feel it has been sanctioned for a C-3, so that -- I just -- I
think that's unfair to bring that up.
As we found out earlier on this morning, affordable housing is a
major issue in Collier County. And I would like to go to the
summary of the staff's density. And I still don't know what density
we are having in this particular project. I know they talked about
reducing the height, but I have no idea what density it is.
And under current laws, it's allowed three DUs, and with the
conversion from commercial to residential, it's allowed an extra DU.
There's no allowable transfer of credits, which the staff has already
said in their report. And then that leaves the other way to get your
density is through affordable housing. As far as I'm aware, through
Section 2.06.00 and Ordinance 04 and 014, affordable housing is
done through a process. You have a process involved where the
petitioner has to apply. It's not a given. Affordable housing is not
an entitlement. You have to put forward a list, and I don't
understand it properly, but you have to put forward a list of how you
propose, how much you propose to put in there affordable housing.
And nowhere did I see in my research this -- where you can
contribute or donate to an affordable housing trust. I have no idea
where that is. I know it's an arbitrary thing. I never knew about it,
I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Maybe that's why you have an
affordable housing issue/problem is because you keep taking
donations from developers, and then that money never gets
transferred into affordable housing. I may be way off on that, I'm
sorry. I don't know.
And then there's just one other issue. With the applicant's lease
for the marina, I believe -- or the applicant's lease for a marina is
based on a marina style. If there are planned changes to a
January 10, 2023
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multifamily home, that lease has to be resubmitted under a
multifamily home, if I'm not mistaken. I would like that cleared up,
please.
In closing, I'm relying on you, commissioners, Commissioner
LoCastro, our commissioner, Commissioner Hall,
Commissioner -- who's third? -- Commissioner Saunders,
Commissioner Kowal, and Commissioner McDaniel. I am relying
on you to make the right decision, listen to what Father Orsi said this
morning, please use right judgment and deny this small-scale
amendment.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jeri Neuhaus. She'll be
followed by Tim Wesolowski. Ms. Neuhaus has been three -- or
been ceded addition time from Maria, is it Shum?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: She's here.
George Sarkus? Is George Sarkus here?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, just for planning
purposes and for the crowd, we're going to take a break at 6:40, and
then we're going to come back at 6:50, then we'll continue.
MR. MILLER: And Lynn Sarkus?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Okay. So that will be a total of 12 minutes for
this speaker.
MS. NEUHAUS: I'm not going to need it. I'm not going to
need all that.
MR. MILLER: Okay.
MS. NEUHAUS: Gentleman, I'm Jeri Neuhaus, a Caprier for
28 years, currently owner of Capri Realty on Capri, acting treasurer
for Capri Community, Inc., on Capri, and, ironically, a commercial
tenant of petitioners.
January 10, 2023
Page 253
Let me be clear, this rezone project is coming to you with a
recommendation for denial that now -- from staff, which we find out
at the 11th hour, has changed, as well as a recommendation for denial
from the Planning Commission 6-1. Again, we're all blindsided
today, so everything changes now. But that's where we're starting
from today is where we left off at planning. Now we're trying to
digest this.
Let's be clear, as to earlier comments that we failed to negotiate
with FCC, the burden of negotiation doesn't fall on our shoulders,
especially when there was no starting pointing from which to
negotiate with both sides a part, and they didn't come back to let us
know about these changes in plans. We were diligent in our decision
to stick with C-3. Apparently, FCC would have you believe that
they have won on traffic, they have won on density, they have won
on the public benefit component, and that their only hurdle was
height and affordable housing.
For the moment, let's set aside misleading claims regarding the
allowed density and the traffic impact when comparing their
proposed rezone project to their proposed alternative
allowed-by-right C-3 compliant project. Instead, let's talk about
those two supposed public benefit components that are simply
nothing more than red herrings intended to distract you and us from
numerous other issues with this project. Namely, the sewers and
culverts.
Capriers rejected FCC's project at the first NIM. Out of the
blue, FCC holds a second NIM. It wasn't required, wasn't requested,
but they did. What was the only difference between those two
NIMs? They introduced sewer and culverts into the presentation,
and they were touted as public benefits.
While Capriers, of course, would prefer to have sewer with
Collier County, we know now that that's impossible. Collier County
January 10, 2023
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would have to purchase Marco Island Utilities' equipment and lines
on Capri in order for that to happen. Marco Island is our only
alternative at this point. There is no other sewer alternative for us.
It belongs to Marco Island Utilities.
In October 29 of 2021 sewer availability letter from MIU to
FCC's planner, MIU made it clear what the requirements would be.
It's a requirement. And more than a year later, no petition has gone
before the Marco Island City Council, and no approval has been
granted and, to our knowledge, after checking with them, no further
progress has been made on that end at all between FCC and MIU.
In the meantime, Capri Community, Inc.'s Sewer Committee
was already working with Marco Island Utilities because Capriers
were told by Collier County that stormwater can't be addressed until
we have sewer. They were making progress. They were, that is,
until our commissioner came to a committee meeting and indicated
that he had funding sources and would go to Tallahassee and get back
to them. I understand nothing came of those efforts.
When the Sewer Committee followed up with Marco Island City
Councilor Ms. Babrowski in July of this last year, she responded in
an email that she believed the project was now in Rick LoCastro's
hands. That's what she put in the email. This was news to the
committee and, essentially, brought their involvement to a screeching
halt.
As of yesterday, there's still been no progress between MIU and
FCC, but the existing Sewer Committee is, even though stalled, is
ready, willing, and able to pick up and move forward with this task.
I've read the correspondence, and I just spoke with the director
of water/sewer management. He confirmed that MIU still has access
to significant grant funds that our governor is trying to get distributed
for projects like these. Neither Mr. LoCastro's or FCC's involvement
is needed, and MIU would be happy to restart the meetings with the
January 10, 2023
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Isles of Capri Sewer Committee.
Describing FCC's sewer offer as a public benefit is like
describing a setback as a designated open space. It's not a public
benefit. It's a requirement.
A little clarification on the culverts. A resident-led culvert
committee has been working on the culvert issue for a while. Had
FCC bothered to reach out to that committee and not base their
decisions on hearsay, they would have known that there is, to date, no
data, no scientific evidence showing any water-quality improvement
from the first culvert that was installed. Until such data or evidence
is obtained, which is what they're working on now, it is disingenuous
for them to consider this a public benefit. It is simply smoke and
mirrors.
While we see that staff have now made concessions, sadly for
our end, they were unified with planning, as evidenced on Page 21 of
your agenda packet among their list of numerous reasons, which
doesn't change based on those concessions, is, and I quote, this
project has no public benefit. That's in your agenda packet from
staff and planning. This project should be denied or sent back to
planning.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, let me ask you a question.
So the email you got from a person that said something was in my
hands. Who was that person?
MS. NEUHAUS: Claire Babrowski.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And when you got that email,
what'd you do with it?
MS. NEUHAUS: I got it from somebody who --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I know, and then what -- and then
if it upset you that much, you sent it to me when?
MS. NEUHAUS: I didn't.
January 10, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It was forwarded to me when?
MS. NEUHAUS: I got it yesterday. I got it -- but it was from
July, and I was able to track it down yesterday.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Interesting. Okay.
MS. NEUHAUS: I'd be happy to give you more details when
you ask.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Not at all.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, it is 6:40. Do you want your break
now, or do you want one more speaker?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let's go one more speaker, and
then we'll take a break.
MR. MILLER: Jim [sic] Wesolowski, and he'll be followed by
Michael G. Hogan.
MR. WESOLOWSKI: Good evening. My name is Tim
Wesolowski. We've been homeowners in Isles of Capri since 2015,
and I'm very grateful for the opportunity to talk this evening.
And to be honest, I wasn't going to say anything. I had put my
name in before. I pulled it out. I figured everything that I had to
say other people were going to cover. That was before this whole
process fell apart that we've seen here today.
So just to kind of summarize things quickly, the Readers Digest
version, the original project was 168, it went to the Planning
Commission, there were some objections. FCC never came back
and addressed those objections. No response was done. There was
a 6-1 vote. It was against them. And then we learn today that
there's a new project, we heard about this from Mr. Bosi, at 122 feet.
When did he find out about this? To be honest, it sounded like
it was right instantly here. One sixty-eight's no good, 122. Yeah, I
guess that's good. I don't -- you know, that's good. When did he
find out about this? What were the conditions under which he found
out about this?
January 10, 2023
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This is a process that's taken a couple of years to get here. Is
this pulling a fast one, this bait and switch? Is this an okay process
here? How can we trust FCC going forward when they just pulled a
fast one on us here?
I respectfully submit that you shouldn't trust what they say.
They came here on one plan, had a conversation nobody knew
anything about with Mr. Bosi, come back with something new. It's
gone completely around the normal processes. Is that what a good
neighbor does? Is that communication? Is that trust?
I can't trust them. I respectfully submit you-all shouldn't trust
them. And I'm urging you, based not so much on the project
that -- what we've heard, but this process here today. This is dirty
pool. This is going around the processes, and they should not be
allowed to do it.
I'm urging you to vote on the original proposal and to vote no.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We will take a break and
reconvene at 6:55.
(A brief recess was had from 6:43 p.m. to 6:55 p.m.)
MS. PATTERSON: Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I appreciate everybody
taking their seats. Once again, if you turned your cell phones on,
please turn them off or on mute.
Mr. Miller, let's go to the next speaker.
MR. MILLER: Michael G. Hogan. I don't know that he's still
here. He was wearing a red hat, and I don't see that. He would be
followed by Patty Fowle.
MS. NEUHAUS: She's not here.
MR. MILLER: Okay. All right. I know Nicole Esch is here.
Okay. So let's have Nicole get up. Let me do this count real quick.
One, two --
January 10, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Call the second one.
MR. MILLER: All right. She has time from 11 additional
speakers, so I need to call them all here real quick.
Linda Russo?
MS. RUSSO: Yeah.
MR. MILLER: All right. Don Jones?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He's here. He just stepped out.
MR. MILLER: All right. James Esch?
MR. ESCH: Here.
MR. MILLER: Phyllis Merenda?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She's also in the restroom, truly.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Truly.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: There she is. Yay.
Maureen Dougherty?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She's here.
MR. MILLER: Ken Lovegreen.
MR. LOVEGREEN: Yep.
MR. MILLER: He is here.
Don Jones? Wait, I did Don Jones, so he doesn't get two.
Cheryl Braun.
(No response.)
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I think she left earlier.
MR. MILLER: All right. She's not here.
Steve Miller?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He's in the bathroom.
MR. MILLER: All right. I'm going to accept that he's actually
in the bathroom. I think I have another duplicate here. I'm sorry,
Mr. Chairman. I just don't want to get this wrong.
MR. KOELSCH: I'm Dan Koelsch. She can use my three
minutes.
January 10, 2023
Page 259
MR. MILLER: No. Joyce Beatty?
MS. BEATTY: Here.
MR. MILLER: And that's it. Dan, what was -- do you have a
slip, Dan.
MR. KOELSCH: I put a slip in there.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So, Mr. Miller, what's the --
MR. MILLER: It's still going to be 33 minutes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. And if somebody comes
back from the bathroom, we'll give you 36 then, but I don't think --
MR. MILLER: Well, I counted the people from the bathroom.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: You did?
MR. MILLER: Yes. Yes, I did. Thirty-three minutes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We have a camera in the
bathroom. I was just checking the camera, so...
Ma'am, the floor is yours.
MR. MILLER: She will be followed by Matt Crowder.
MS. ESCH: Thank you. Thank you. Good -- or at this point
not good morning. Good evening. My name's Nicole Esch, and I'm
an Isles of Capri resident of 10 years.
I'm going to share something real quick with [sic] someone that
had to leave earlier. She had one slide, and I just wanted to share it.
It's from Patty. She is the secretary of CCI. And I have it on the
screen here. I'm just going to highlight -- this is a letter that is from
the applicant. It's dated back March 18th, 1996, and it was an email
to the Isles of Capri Civic Association, and it's from the applicant's
lawyer, Mark Woodward.
And I just wanted to highlight -- I want to share the couple
highlighted things, even though Patty would have had something to
go along with this letter.
So my couple highlighted points here are: These purchases are
of public record and are within an area designated C-3 zoning by
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Collier County. So this is acknowledged by the applicant's lawyer.
Also, it is the intention of FC Marina Joint Venture to operate,
essentially, what exists today on the property. That is a marina and
restaurants. And then third in the letter is all planned development
will be consistent with the uses permitted under C-3 zoning.
This is what was proposed to CCI and the Isles of Capri
residents. And I know Patty had some really good things and,
unfortunately -- you know, that she was going to address with this
letter. Unfortunately, she had to leave.
But, you know, this speaks volumes. The applicant should keep
their word. I mean, even though this letter is from a while ago, and I
know times do change, this was the promise to Isles of Capri
residents, and they should honor that. A man of honor keeps their
word.
All right. So I'm going to go into my presentation now. All
right here. All right. I'm adamantly opposed to the proposed
project. First, I would like to address the building heights. The
Land Development Code defines compatibility as a condition in
which land uses or conditions can coexist in relatively proximately
[sic] to another stable fashion over time such that no use or condition
is unduly negatively impacted or indirectly [sic] by any other use or
condition.
And hold on here. I think I might be reading this. And then
complementary is not defined by the LDC. The dictionary definition
of complement is a thing that complements or brings to perfection.
There is also the FLUE, the Future Land Use Element, Policy
5.6, which states, new development should be compatible with and
complementary to the surrounding land use as set forth in the Land
Development Code. In my opinion, this proposed project is not
complementary nor compatible. I'm going to share pictures of all of
the buildings on the business isle with their actual heights so you can
January 10, 2023
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see and understand how the proposed project does not fit into our
community.
Osteria Capri, 20 feet. Capri Lodge condos, 20 feet. Capri
Realty, 14 feet. John R. Woods building, 25 feet. Little cream
building, 10 feet. Pink building, 17 feet. Capri Community Center
is 17 feet. Tarpon Village, 55-plus community, is 25 feet. White
building is 28 feet. Capri Produce is 17 feet. Yellow building, it's
the kitchen for Island Gypsy, is 15 feet. Island Gypsy is 20 feet.
Island Gypsy Cafe Gift Shop is 32 feet.
Driftwood Landing is 25 feet. Tarpon Club Marina is 75 actual,
and then the teal building is 20 feet. Pelican Bend is 21 feet, and
Capri Fish House is 19 feet. Greater Naples Fire Rescue Fire
Department is 25 feet, and Capri Christian Church is 25 feet -- or, no,
35 feet. Sorry about that.
My measurements provided on the table show the average actual
height of all buildings on the business isles is 24 feet.
Now, with the changes the applicant made, I still don't believe
it's compatible. Why is this important? C-3 is zoned for a
maximum of 50 feet, and the actual height would be closer to 75 feet.
At their new proposed height of the 122 feet, that will not be
compatible with any of the buildings on the business isle. The C-3
maximum allowed height will -- or their new height will be over
100 percent higher than the actual average building height on the
business isle according to my calculations.
Just to reiterate, based on my calculations, the average height of
the buildings on the business isle is 24 feet actual height. I believe
the comprehensive planning review put together by staff is correct.
FCC Beach and Yacht, LLC's proposed project must be compatible
with the surrounding land uses. I agree it is not.
The picture on the top left shows Backwater Nick's. It was the
applicant's waterfront restaurant on the property prior to Hurricane
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Wilma. Backwater Nick's was compatible.
The picture to the bottom left is the applicant's model at their
sales office. I liked how the parking was designed at street level like
the rest of the island. The model was compatible. You can see the
applicant's proposed project to the right, which I believe is not
compatible.
Two existing structures adjacent to the proposed property are the
teal building to the left and Osteria Capri to the right. Both
buildings are 20 feet actual height. The proposed project would be
located between these two buildings. Think of the privacy lost for
the residents living across from these three proposed buildings.
These towers will look directly down into their back patios, pools,
and into their homes.
The homes across the water are zoned RSF-3 with three allowed
houses per acre and a maximum height of 35 feet. Most of the
houses and businesses represented by the color yellow will be
negatively impacted by losing some of their sky view or looking
directly at the proposed project. When these residents bought their
houses, I doubt most thought they would have three large towers to
look at while they are in their homes and in their backyards.
I'm going to give one quick example. If you look to where the
lower black arrow is pointing, this is all the way back to Tahiti Street.
I have friends that chose this house as their retirement home. When
you enter their second floor, which is their primary living area of the
house, this friend's husband's chair has perfect views both outside and
at the TV. Both look out over to the top of the marina. Right now
they see sky. The proposed project was -- will put towers in their
view, and this concerns the couple.
The applicant's attorney commented that we would not notice
three buildings because of the lush landscaping. I disagree. Every
time I come on and off Isles of Capri, I will have to make an
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approximately 245-degree turn around the three tall buildings and the
concrete parking structure.
The applicant has requested plus accessory indoor and outdoor
recreation uses and parking structures without limitation. I do not
believe a multilevel parking structure is compatible with the area.
There is no multilevel parking structures on Isles of Capri. There are
no pools on top of any parking structures on Isles of Capri. All
parking is on ground level on Isles of Capri.
The proposed multilevel parking structure is not compatible with
our current parking and, in my opinion, it is worse than a storage
building.
Commissioner LoCastro, if you care about District 1, you would
not allow the applicant's request for plus accessory indoor and
outdoor recreation uses and parking structures without limitation. In
all of the BCC meetings that I have listened to, I have yet to hear an
applicant ask for a parking structure without limitations.
I believe that granting this request will open up other C-3
properties or any -- anyone in general. I think it has no benefit other
than being an eyesore in the middle of the business isle. I feel that it
would not be in the best interest of our community or any
community.
What I hate about parking garage -- garages. The proposed
parking structure has a larger footprint than the three towers being
proposed by the applicant. It is out of scale with the surrounding
area. The concrete wall located on the side will be an eyesore, and I
will have to drive around every time I leave and come back. I
personally find all parking garages unattractive.
I ask the Board of Collier County Commissioners to not allow a
parking garage to be built in the center of a community business isle.
In my opinion, it is offensive, and this would not happen in Port
Royal or Goodland due to their superior standards. In my opinion,
January 10, 2023
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Isles of Capri represents the best waterfront property in east/south
Naples and should not be subject to this large, unsightly concrete
structure.
Compatibility is not one or two miles away. It is within a
reasonable distance of the subject site. In the Planning Commission
meeting for Naples One project, it was acknowledged multiple times
that one-third mile radius is the accepted standard for determining a
reasonable distance. What does a third-mile radius from the
proposed project site look like? According to the maps shown, a
third-mile radius includes some of the business isle and part of the
two isles immediately adjacent to the business isle. It does not
include the isle bordering the Marco River or any of Marco Island,
nor does it include Hammock Bay.
Please look at the radius closely, as any changes to this zoning
will greatly affect future business standards and set a precedence for
the business isle.
The Tarpon Village 55-plus community is the only zoned
RMF-16 property on the business isle. Please look at the picture to
the left. It is only two stories and set back far from the main road.
In my opinion, it's not compatible with the property and -- sorry, I
lost my spot here -- and the property is not built to the maximum
allowed height.
According to the Page Packet [sic] 38 of this agenda, staff is
constrained from recommending approval since this petition is
inconsistent with the FLUM or the GMP. I am asking you all to also
agree that the petition is inconsistent with the FLUM of the GMP and
vote against the petition. If the Board finds that the petition is
consistent with the GMP, then I urge each of you to not consider a
maximum height of the 75 feet but, instead, to consider a maximum
height of 50 feet, which is currently allowed for C-3.
And I don't know if I can quickly show this, but in your agenda
January 10, 2023
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packet -- I don't know what -- with Mike Bosi what happened, but
this was the actual recommendation if they were to change the
building height. There's some conditions there; I don't agree with,
but what -- the Planning Commission's agreement was 75 feet with a
number of different conditions. So I don't know if I can just throw
that on a screen here so someone can see it. But I don't know how
that could change from this very short time. You can kind of see I
just highlight it because I, obviously, didn't have time to add it into
my slide.
This slide shows property owners of the Tarpon Village 55-plus
community in alphabetical order. The arrow shows a couple that
owns two properties in and what I would presume to be family
members with the same last name owning the third property. All the
other properties are individually owned. There are no units currently
for sale and no plans currently to make any changes in height to these
buildings.
And just as a little sidenote, back to the Naples One again, it's
not what's -- what could be there in the future. It's what's there now,
like, right now, and it's 24 feet. So that does not even -- that's why
the 75 feet's not even considered a comparable.
The applicant's attorney has brought up in other meetings that
the property needs to be profitable. I personally don't think the price
paid for a property nor the property's value should reflect the
decisions made by the Board of Collier County Commissioners. The
applicant bought most of the property many years ago and, in total,
paid 4,186,000 for all properties, including the successful Tarpon
Club Marina that they've been making money for -- or on for years.
The applicant could just sell the land alone and make a profit. I
believe a C-3 project would be successful and profitable.
Mr. Yovanovich showed two letters written by commercial real
estate professionals at the September 1st Collier County Planning
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Board meeting stating that C-3 will be successful on the proposed
site. Based on this information, I believe there's no need to change
the zoning.
This slide shows some of Isles of Capri, the business ownership.
All these property owners bought C-3 land. Please keep in mind that
your decision today could bring additional towers to the small site.
Please do not consider any additional height or zoning change to the
property -- to the applicant's property. Fifty feet zoned is really 75
actual. In my opinion, this is not compatible already with the
business isle. Most of the business isle really is like a C-2. So, I
mean, it should -- you know, I hate to say it, I mean, to bring you
down, but it really should be C-2. But we don't want to -- I don't
want to infringe on their building rights, so I'll let -- you know, that's
why we're saying keep it C-3, you know.
The density of this proposed project is two grand [sic] at 20.3
[sic] acres, which comes out to be a total of the 108 dwelling units.
Some of the key focal points of our community are already
being outgrown. The Capri -- the Isles of Capri Park currently needs
another bocce court to accommodate its 16 bocce league. The Capri
community building where residents hold various recreational
activities sometimes cannot accommodate everyone in season and is
left to standing room.
I believe the sensitive environment of Isles of Capri will not be
able to handle the additional population of approximately 253.8 more
residents. There are still some open lots in Isles of Capri that have
not been built yet but, in my opinion, our level of service is already
reaching capacity. Density is a great concern.
If this project were to be proposed for residential development, I
would like to see it adhere to the limits set by the Growth
Management Plan at three dwelling units an acre or 16 dwelling units
total.
January 10, 2023
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Please remember that the -- if they were to have that additional
one dwelling unit, it's at your discretion, and it's not entitled. The
additional dwelling unit for a conversion of commercial to residential
doesn't even make sense because they're keeping commercial inside
the project.
The applicant is actually proposing to add residential on top of
the 6,000-square-feet office space, the 1,000-foot ship store, the
marina, and then the restaurant, 10,000-square-foot restaurant, which
is larger than the 6,000-square-foot maximum allowance for C-3. So
I don't see how they're improving our density, because if they were to
build a restaurant right now, it would have to be at 6,000 square feet
under C-3. And that actually puts another issue with Isles of Capri.
How about if the other restaurants that are in the C-3 zone, they say,
oh, you let them build 10,000 square feet, now I want to build it, too.
So now we have restaurants now that are wanting a higher than C-3
zoning themselves.
The LDC and the Collier County manatee protection program
describes the same criteria for a marine setting, and there's a rating
system. Under Section 3.2.4 of the Collier County manatee
protection program states that the purpose of a marina site rating
system is to determine the maximum powerboat wet slip densities in
order to improve existing manatee protection. The rating system is
based on three criteria: Water depth, native marine habitat, and
manatee abundance.
Adequate water depth requires more than four feet at mean
low-water level. This is based on the fact that the majority of
vessels in the county operate at a less than 2-foot draft allowing
two feet clearance below keel for manatee protection. Native marine
habitats include seagrass bed, salt marshes, mangroves, and other
biologically productive submerged and shoreline habitats which may
be adversely affected or destroyed by dredging and filling activities.
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I was bothered by the applicant's expert report from Turrell, Hall
& Associates. I am referencing the water along Johnson Bay with
the remnant docking structures. On Page 227 of the Collier County
planning commissioners agenda meeting, there's a picture that
indicates there are three paddle grass beds as shown on the right. I
wondered how the docks could be approved with the docks on top of
the paddle grass or directing boats over the paddle grass. As shown
in the report, 141 square feet of paddle grass was identified in the
proposed dock site. In my opinion, this would certainly impact
native marine habitat found in the project area, which is in the
Rookery Bay National Estuary.
The marine [sic] protection plan and Section 5.05.02 of the LDC
requires water depths of four or greater at mean low-water to be
considered adequate depth. According to Figure 5-3 found in the
Collier County's manatee protection program, Johnson Bay is
identified as not having adequate depth.
According to the Collier County manatee protection program in
Section 5.05.02 of the LDC, no impact to the native marina habitats
means no more than 100 square feet of seagrasses can be there,
otherwise it's impacted. Based on the patches of paddle grass
identified in the submerged resource survey combined with the dock
site plan prepared by Turrell, Hall & Associates, I believe at least
141 square feet of seagrass will be impacted.
Because Figure 3-15 of the Collier County Manatee Protection
Plan shows the proposed MPUD location as not having adequate
depth and because it appears to me that the drawing prepared by
Turrell, Hall & Associates identifies what appears to be more than
100 square feet of seagrass that cannot be impacted, I believe this
area should be classified as a protected site.
According to Section 5.05.02.D.3 of the LDC states, a density of
one boat slip for every 100 feet of shoreline is allowed. Drawings
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prepared by Turrell, Hall & Associates note that the applicant owns
approximately 595 linear feet of shoreline along Johnson Bay, which
I believe means the applicant is allowed five or six boat slips.
Furthermore, Section 5.05.02.D.3 also states that for protected
sites, expansion of an existing dry storage facility or construction of
new dry storage facilities is prohibited, which, including the marina,
means that they cannot add anything more to their current marina if
they have it in an MPUD.
According to the Tarpon Club Marina's website, the applicant
can currently accommodate 140 boats and dry storage slips, or the
dry -- or, no, 140 boats in the dry storage slips, but in this proposal,
they're saying 258 dry storage slips, which, according to this manatee
protection program, they can't have those more -- those additional
slips.
The docks on Johnson Bay, in my opinion, have been
overlooked due to the applicant's renewals dating over 10 years. I
request that Florida Department of Environmental Protection and the
Army Corps of Engineers and Collier County is made aware of the
applicant's study and the Collier County's manatee protection
program prior to allowing any dredging operations or dock
construction activities to begin.
Dredging greatly affects the natural habitat of the endangered
small-tooth sawfish and the threatened West Indian manatee.
Rookery Bay has done a two-and-a-half [sic] and identified Johnson
Bay as having abundant manatee population. The paddlecraft park
located at the entrance of Isles of Capri has signs to ensure visitors
are aware of the endangered wildlife in the area, which include the
small-toothed sawfish. In fact, there was a news article on the
Naples Daily News several years ago explaining how a small-tooth
sawfish was spotted in Johnson Bay less than 800 feet from the
petitioner's proposed dock site.
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The applicant cannot do this proposed project without a sewer
pipe coming all the way down Collier Boulevard. Currently, the
City of Marco Island will not allow more connections to the city's
force main until a graft sanitary sewer collection system is
constructed for the commercial zone in addition to installing a force
main along Capri Boulevard from Collier Boulevard to the business
isle with a capacity to handle future phases. Capri Boulevard is a
narrow two-lane road and such -- such construction projects will
likely require these lanes to be closed during the construction or be
down to one lane during the construction activities.
I'm concerned that the daily commute of residents, businesses,
and visitors of the Isles of Capri will be greatly impacted, and this
project should be planned, if approved, out of season to not impact
our businesses.
At this time a sanitary collection system is not currently funded
in the City of Marco Island's five-year capital improvement plan and
has not been designed. What controls will be put in place to ensure
this work will have minimal impact on the flow of traffic during
construction?
The existing sewer pipe only services the three condominiums at
the business isle and five commercially owned businesses on the
business isle. All residents and all property owners on Isles of Capri
are on septic.
Please do not approve this project, as an overwhelming number
of residents in 2005 and still currently today feel that if and when
Isles of Capri converts from sewer -- from septic systems to public
sewer systems for residential homes, Collier County would be the
preferred utility owner as we have -- as we receive our water from
Collier County, are taxed by Collier County, and live in Collier
County.
The sewer pipe would create a redundant infrastructure almost
January 10, 2023
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guaranteeing the residents of Isles of Capri a future City of Marco
Island sewer connection. I am personally bothered by this, as the
City of Marco Island Resolution No. 2003-43 under Section 5, it is
argued that the City of Marco Island should proceed with the
purchase of the Marco Island Marco Shores utility system to ensure
the system is not sold to another public entity operated by appointed
or elected officials who are not politically accountable directly to the
customers of Marco Island or the Marco Shores utility system.
My interpretation is that the whole Isles of Capri future service
area is under the City of Marco Island service area for sewer services.
The residents of Isles of Capri will be put in the very same position
where we will be charged assessments and sewer rates by an entity
that is not politically accountable directly to the residents of Isles of
Capri. If Collier County can agree with the City of Marco Island,
they should have a sewer system that's operated by an entity that's
politically accountable to its residents. The residents of Isles of
Capri and unincorporated Collier County deserves the same. Please
do not agree with this proposed sewer project.
Isles of Capri was told in 2019 by Marco Island City Council,
when the time is right, this would be discussed with Collier County,
and the residents of Isles of Capri should have a say in any proposed
future system that we, as residents, should be required to hook up to.
The sewer is a big project, and Isles of Capri deserves the same
consideration as all the other sewer project plans in Collier County.
Letting a developer do a sewer project that will disrupt the commutes
and daily lives of the residents and businesses is something that
should be well planned with the community, Collier County, and the
City of Marco Island to minimum the negative impact.
Most Collier County sewer projects are planned with stormwater
improvements, newly paved roads, paved sidewalks, and
beautification as shown by this picture project. When Isles of Capri
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is hooked up to sewer, please have this as a one-time project that can
be coordinated with all of the needed infrastructure improvements
such as the stormwater management and/or paving of our roadways.
It is in the Isles of Capri's best interest to be serviced by Collier
County. Collier County should want to provide sewer to all of its
residents. Please keep the public utility review as rejected. I agree
with staff's opinion -- or staff's recommendation of denial.
Thank you for the time to speak. And I guess if you have any
questions, because I know that was kind of a lot, I am willing to
answer them to my best of my -- the best that I can.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Very impressive.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yep.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, your next speaker, he resurfaced,
Michael Hogan. I'm sorry, sir. And then I know I called Matt
Crowder, but I think they wanted me to go to the Zoom speakers
before they finished with the people they had here in the room, so
that's what we're going to do.
So Michael G. Hogan -- Hagan -- I'm sorry, sir -- followed by
Ann Hall.
MR. HAGAN: Okay. Thank you for having me. I just -- that
was a nice presentation.
I just want to say something briefly about Capri. I've been in
Collier County 20 years and worked for a realtor for 15 years,
approximately. She lives on Capri.
I don't -- it's pretty obvious that nobody there wants that project
there. I don't understand why -- it's your district.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Our district.
MR. HAGAN: Our district, correct; it's our district. And it's
your -- it's your constituents. I understand if you lose all of their
votes, you probably will still win election again, I understand that,
but that's something that nobody wants, and I don't see the value in
January 10, 2023
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ruining what is part of Collier County.
The attraction to Collier County is Naples. People come to see
the City of Naples. They also want to see Capri. They want to see
Goodland. They want to see the Everglades. That's what makes us
unique, in my opinion.
I'm here to address you about the homelessness issue that I've
been working on for a long time. Some of you are familiar with that,
that I've been -- if I understand it correctly, there's $20 million
available for use toward homelessness with the tax increase votes
when we increased it 6-and-a-half to 7 percent. I believe there's
$20 million allocated specifically for homelessness in Collier County.
I know there's 25- for David Lawrence Center. Somebody can tell
me if that's true or not.
The point is, there is a solution to that problem. It's a simple
solution. There's a solution to the affordable housing problem. A
$540,000 house is not affordable to the vast majority of people who
live east of 41; most of us, really. You know, that's just not
affordable. Affordable housing to me would be -- and there are
some available -- $200-, 250,000 condo, maybe a $300,000 home.
That's affordable to most of us who work service jobs.
And let's face it, if you go to Naples Manor -- I lived in Naples
Manor by myself in one of the houses the realtor had. My neighbors
had seven cars in the driveway and four generations of people, and
that's what it's come to, and they beat us to it, and they're beautiful
people.
But that's the only way to live in Collier County. Those are
people that service every one of us, and we all know it, but nothing's
being done about it. Everything's swept underneath the rug.
I know a guy who died in the bathroom at Justin's Place with a
needle in his arm. I know another guy who was murdered by his
roommate off of Bayshore. He put him in the big toolbox that goes
January 10, 2023
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in the back of your truck. He had one behind his trailer, and the
neighbors smelled it. He moved him to the woods, and his arm was
torn off by an animal, and you could see his lungs. And I have
pictures of that. You know, this has to stop.
I have the solution. What I'm asking for is somehow form a
group of people, myself, a builder, we can find a builder, somebody
from the county, and put this thing together, and we can do it. We
don't need any help from the federal government. We can do this
quickly, and we can build affordable housing, 300-square-foot units
that anybody can live in for $500 a month.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
MR. MILLER: Okay. We're going to go to a Zoom speaker.
Our first speaker on Zoom is Ann Hall, and she will be followed by
Connie Sofo-Koelsch.
Ms. Hall, you're being prompted to unmute. There you are.
You have three minutes, ma'am.
MS. HALL: Yes. I'm Ann Hall. I live with my husband,
Eddie Hall. We're property owners and have been full-time residents
for 26 years on Isles of Capri. And I'd like to just echo -- and I'm so
proud of all the speakers that I've heard from this beautiful
community, and I would also support them in a vote of no.
Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker will be Connie
Sofo-Koelsch, followed by Richard Downs.
Connie, you're being prompted to unmute yourself, and there
you are. You have three minutes, ma'am.
MS. SOFO-KOELSCH: Yes, thank you, and thank you for
your time today.
Well, what I was going to discuss is not up for it at all because
the figures don't match what was presented today, but what was
presented is what was stated in the very beginning of this meeting
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when we are announced that this was a mixed Planned Unit
Development zoning district for the project to be known as the Isles
of Capri MPUD to allow construction of mixed-use development up
to 168 feet in actual height, including a maximum of 108 multifamily
dwelling units, up to 10,000 square feet and 200 seats of restaurant
and membership clubs, a marina including up to 64 wet slips, a
258-unit dry boat storage facility, and ship store and dockmaster
office limited to 1,000 square feet, and 6,000 square feet of general
offices, plus accessory indoor and outdoor recreation uses, and
parking structures without limitation. Now, that's not what we're
discussing anymore. There's been a change.
So the figures I had with the mass that they had don't add up.
But what they originally were, each building -- and they're only
working with 3.6 acres, so one building alone stated at that facts [sic]
of mass was 12.86 acres. That's wall to wall. No space in between.
So that's not going to work out anymore because they've changed it.
So while they wanted to maximize their profits for the value of
their property, what's going to happen is they're changing the value of
our properties. Our skyline will be missing. It's gone. They're
covering it up. It doesn't matter if it's 122 feet. And I understand
why they went with the 7-foot, because after Ian, we had an 8-foot
surge, so they want to protect what's theirs.
The community keeps on saying, "a good neighbor." I don't
understand. They are not trying to fit into the community. They
want a community within a community, and that is not what Isles of
Capri represents here. We are not that type. We are a community
as a whole.
And, you know, Mr. LoCastro, you helped us so much after Ian.
You came to our rescue, but you saw who and what we are. We
come together as a community, and that's who we will always be.
Mr. Bosi pointed out that this cannot be a sale of the units. As
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they said, we'll give $5,000 for the sale of the units to be put in the
county fund prior. Well --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Ma'am, please summarize.
MS. SOFO-KOELSCH: Yes. They switched this so many
times, you should probably get that in a contract of writing before
you vote on this because we don't even know what we're going to get
anymore.
Thank you for your time, and thank you for listening. And this
is a no to the rezone. Keep it C-3, please.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Richard Downs. He'll be
followed by Frederick Champelovier. I hope I'm close.
Mr. Downs, you have three minutes.
MR. DOWNS: Hi. This is Rich Downs and my wife, Ann
Downs. We're just speaking on behalf of the wonderful diamond in
the rough that we have in the Isles of Capri. And I just -- we're
strongly and firmly believing that C-3 should continue. I'm an
accountant and CPA, and I'm sort of like a crazy guy with an Excel
spreadsheet, and I went up and down the West Coast of Florida, and I
found the Isles of Capri. And I thought, boy, we were in paradise. I
did my homework. I went to the Fiddler's Creek and got their sales
presentation and saw what they had planned, and I thought, wow, this
is wonderful, a yacht club, and a restaurant, and a marina. This is
just exactly what would work well with the Isle of Capri.
Sure, they're allowed to change their mind as long as they
change their mind and go along with the C-3 if they have to make
changes. But it was a spectacular proposal that they had.
And I still struggle with the process today, because I see
we're -- again, everybody's saying we're on the fly, that -- even the
commissioners admit that where did 110 go to -- 108 units go back to
68 units but, no, really, it's 108, yet the floors are dropping down, yet
we're still stuck with the 108 additional apartments or condos, and it
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just -- it's just a strange process that I think that there's just -- stick
with the C-3. You bought C-3. You know, what you're -- you
knew what you bought. You knew why you brought it. Just stick
with what you have. And I want to -- again, I want to compliment
all the speakers before because, you know, I'm nothing compared to
what they said. And I also want to thank the commissioners for
what they did for us during Ian. It was a spectacular show from our
Collier County.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Frederick Champelovier,
followed by Lorraine Painter.
Let's see. Frederick, you're being prompted to unmute yourself,
if you'll do so at this time. You have three minutes, sir.
MR. CHAMPELOVIER: Hi. I'm Fred Champelovier. I've
been on Capri for 17 years, and I was assured by Building and
Planning/Zoning that Fiddler's Creek property was zoned C-3 with
the height limitations of the 50 feet and three units per acre. That
was acceptable, so we went ahead and purchased our property, and
that's how zoning's supposed to work. You do a little bit of
homework, and you can make an intelligent real estate decision.
Rezoning this property undermines the zoning process.
Doing my homework, I found that the criteria to rezone -- (audio
malfunction) -- or show that the area has changed significantly to
warrant a rezoning or that it benefits the citizens in the area. They
can't check any of these boxes.
Fiddler's Creek knew what their land was when they purchased
it. They knew it was zoned C-3. Rezoning this parcel is breaking
the contract with the residents of Capri. They're asking to increase
the density -- well, see things have been changed now, so I'm
winging it. They're jumping it up way time [sic] more than what
they were. They're supposed to be 50 feet and 168 feet in height;
January 10, 2023
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now they've gone down to 122. That's for three buildings. That
would mean a wall of concrete which stretches about 450 feet and
would give you a shadow to the people to the east where they would
be in -- their properties would be in the shadows of these buildings in
early afternoon.
So in other words, they wouldn't be able to see a sunset. All
they could do is watch the sun go down behind the buildings. I don't
think you'd want that in your neighborhood, and you wouldn't want
108 units looking down in your backyard while you're trying to
barbecue or work -- or lay by your pool.
I was involved in the petition process, and I talked to hundreds
of residents. You know, you've got a thousand on that petition. I
didn't run into one person that was in favor of it. In two days of the
planning board meetings, nobody got up and spoke in favor of it.
Mr. Bosi said it was incompatible with the neighborhood.
So to sum it up, they can't check any of the boxes that justify the
rezoning, the residents are united against it, and your own planning
board is against it. I don't care how they change it down, it's still
changing our neighborhood.
So how on earth can you vote any other way but to deny this
ridiculous request for zoning?
You know, another thing that we're handling here is that you're
opening a door for the commercial property on the other side of
Capri, and they're waiting just to see what you do. How are you
going to turn them down when they come in?
You know, the lawyer for Fiddler's Creek showed pictures of
other compatible neighborhoods with tall buildings. They're all new
neighborhoods. They're not established neighborhoods. These
buildings were built at the same time.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Sir, please summarize. That's
your time.
January 10, 2023
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MR. CHAMPELOVIER: Okay. Basically, the other thing
they snuck in there was they're going to slip a gate in there. That is a
bottleneck of traffic as it is right now, and I can see it exacerbated.
Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Lorraine Painter. She'll
be followed by Robert Brown.
Lorraine, you're being prompted to unmute yourself. There you
go. You have three minutes.
MS. PAINTER: Hello. I'm Lorraine Painter. I live at 414
Panay Avenue. I am directly east across the Tarpon Bay from this
location, and so I will look out of my window and see it every day.
What I would like to ask of the commissioners is to think this
through if this was your backyard. What do you have in your
backyard? How are things being changed?
I feel like the developer has not offered in good faith, because
even from the beginning -- and I was at the last hearing in
person -- asking for things that were way out of line with the density,
asking for density based on the entire parcel, not just the portion that
they're going to develop. They wanted to count the boat storage.
And so on and on, and now a change again.
All I'm saying is that if there is a way for them to do something,
keep it to the minimum, not to the maximum, not to make it
outrageous, not to make it so difficult. And I would like to have you
think about if this was in your backyard. If this was in your
backyard, your window, looking out every day, what would that be
like to have a change?
I think that Hurricane Ian, especially, just made us all realize
what is the worst that can happen. And I'm on Panay. The next
street over was the house that burnt down, and the fire trucks could
not get to it, and it burnt down to the ground.
So we're just not set up with infrastructure to have something
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like this put in the middle of our midst, and that's all I would say.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker on Zoom is Richard -- or
Robert Brown, excuse me, and then we'll come back to the room for
Willard Giansanti.
Mr. Brown, are you with us, sir? And you're being prompted to
unmute, sir.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. I don't see him unmuting. I'll keep
an eye on him, but let's go ahead and move to Willard Giansanti here
in the room, followed by Matt Crowder.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, how may -- how many
do we have left in the room on your tally here? Give us that when
you got it.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. Mr. Giansanti, and he'll be followed
by Matt Crowder.
Go ahead, sir.
MR. GIANSANTI: I live on Isles of Capri for -- since 2000.
We built the house. I've owned the property since 1996, and I came
here with visions of grandeur and living the rest of my life here, and
that's what we decided upon. My wife just passed, so we got half of
it right so far.
But, in reality, what's really going on, I just can't believe
anybody would be in favor of this. When we first built our house, I
sat here for over a year, listened to pounding and pounding and
pounding of pilings going in at Twin Dolphins, and they were going
down 100 and something feet, okay, and listened to that for over a
year. This is within two streets of my house. I don't want to go
through that again for -- I can't imagine what it's going to take for the
pilings in this part of the island. That part of the island's all filled.
So, basically, they've got to drive pilings down so deep it's ridiculous.
January 10, 2023
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The other thing that really disturbs me is trying to get off this
island during a crisis. I stayed for every hurricane, including the last
one. And I thought it was a joke. I said, oh, the media's just hyping
it. It wasn't a hype. They were right on the money, and I watched it
come right up within six inches of going in my house, and I built at
12 feet above sea level, and I didn't pile the house. The house has 68
pilings under it, but it's all filled, okay. And I survived the storm
with no problems major.
But I wonder -- think about it. You're going to have 100 and
something residences there with potentially four people per
residence. Let's say there's only two; that's still 200 people to 400
people that could be there. And if it's a crisis they don't leave like I
did -- maybe I was a knucklehead. I was fortunate. But how are
you going to leave an island when the streets -- every street on this
island was under water by about 42 inches. I couldn't get out of the
driveway. My mailbox stands 40-something inches high. It was
under water.
The whole island was a mass of water. How are you going to
get out of here? Marco Island has a back entrance to get in if there's
a crisis. We don't have a back entrance. We've got a little road.
And on Sunday even when the church gets out, traffic is backed up
all the way down to the corner. It's backed up all the way around the
whole length. That's two miles. Actually, I'm sorry, a half a mile.
So it's backed up a half a mile just from a church. Think about these
people trying to get out of here.
And the other thing that's a play on words is, anybody can go to
this facility, okay. It's not a private facility, if you join. What kind
of comment is that? So you can spend $15,000 to join, $6,000 a year
for dues, just to eat there? Who is going to do that? We've got four
restaurants. That is just -- everything -- a lot of the proposals are
plays on words.
January 10, 2023
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And Mr. Yovanovich, I've got to give him credit. He's a very
intelligent man. I can tell by the way he speaks he knows a lot more
than I do politically, but some of the things he uses are twisting stuff
around, okay.
The other -- he's saying things about what were approved.
Things weren't approved. It's a proposal that's trying to get
approved. He hasn't got an approval. He's saying they've agreed to
this 120 seat. They haven't agreed to the 120 (unintelligible).
They've agreed to three buildings changing the contract. Height
is money. I guess that's the end of my money talk, okay. But what
I'm getting at is I'm 100 percent against this; that's all I can tell you.
And it's in my backyard, and it's very upsetting to me.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, we have 11 speakers left. I did
miss a Zoom speaker. So, Mr. Crowder, I'm going to call on her real
quick. Margaret O'Neil.
Margaret, you're being prompted to unmute yourself. And you
have three minutes, Margaret.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. She has seemingly gone. Let's go
to Mr. Crowder, and he will be followed by John Mueller.
MR. CROWDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Matt Crowder,
for the record, Capri resident of almost 30 years, president of the
Capri Community, Inc., and I'm cold, I just want to say that, cold and
tired. So I'm not going to say a lot.
But I just want to review a couple of things, and I won't spend a
lot of time repeating things other people said, but I would briefly like
to go back to something that George and Joan said because I think it's
important to know. We're just regular folks on Capri, and we come
in here, and we hear very intelligent, talented people talk about, as
George and Joan put it, the acronyms, the FLUE and the LDC and all
of these kinds of things. But I guess I need you to understand that
January 10, 2023
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when we look at it, we just see it as regular people, right. It's -- and I
guess -- I guess I get that it comes down to specific compliance with
specific things and, therefore, it gets the green light and the smiley
face, and it goes forward.
But to us, the buildings are now however many feet shorter,
25 percent feet [sic] shorter than they were before. So to us, they are
25 percent less incompatible than they were before and -- but still
notably, remarkably incompatible for the island. I know many of
you have been down to Capri. All you've got to do is go down there
and see what we're talking about. You can't look at what's going on
on the business side and say, oh, yeah, that would be a good fit here.
It certainly wouldn't. There's no question about that.
I want to say this, too; I am so pleased with all of the speakers
that came up here today, pleased and proud as president of CCI.
And I heard so many excellent arguments by so many excellent
people. Nicole, I agree with everything you said. Actually, all of
you, I agree with everything you said. But one thing I didn't hear, I
didn't hear any resident get up here and speak in favor of this project,
and I think by now you guys know why, right, because there are few
to none.
And I'm just going to sort of -- I got, like, notes scratched and
stuff like that, so I'm just going to go through them real quick, if I can
see. I want to refer to something that a number of other people have
said about the potential for, sort of, the dominoes to fall and other
developers that own property on the business island to also want to
put up high-rise towers if this one should go through. That's not an
assumption. That's not conjecture. We have heard from them. We
are acquainted with some of them down there, and they have said, if
this goes through, I'm right in there, and I'm going to do it as well.
So it will be a matter of the dominoes falling, and we will lose our
entire business island. That's why, you know, when we hear, you
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know, the gentleman that said, well, you know, you'll still have a
couple of acres left of commercial after we are done that can
accommodate the island. No, we don't believe that's true, and I think
we have the evidence to show that it won't be true at all.
And another thing, too, if you think we're not an attractor
already, as you said, buddy, just come down to Isles of Capri on a
Friday night during season and see what's going on down there. The
island is full of people from off island.
So we are not afraid of the traffic. We are clear eyed, and I'm
going to leave you with -- I don't know how much time I have left,
but I'm just going to leave you with a couple of things, if I could.
We know there's no real public benefit. We believe that, okay. And
after all of the talk, I think that we're even more firmly convinced that
there's no real public benefit here to us.
And this has been a last-minute change. Only a few of us were
aware of this, and myself even only last night. So, you know, I think
the petitioner has had months since the Planning Commission to sort
of prepare these changes and to bring them to us, and we have had,
literally, no time to respond. So for that reason, I think it might be a
good idea to consider sending this back to the Planning Commission
and letting us go through the process again.
I don't get how you get buildings that are 25 percent shorter and
still have 108 residential units. That doesn't make any sense to me.
It sounds like something that should be reviewed maybe by the
Planning Commission, maybe by staff again and see how that density
works out. The density thing I don't get to begin with.
It's a Coastal High Hazard Area. It's got three max domestic
units per acre, and because of the fact -- thank you, sir -- because of
the fact that it's coastal high hazard until you put in a PUD, and then
you can, like, have all the density you want, right? So it's like a
coastal high hazard until it's not, and I don't understand that either.
January 10, 2023
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I will just close with this: I think what I would ask of you is
this: Please prioritize the interests of your constituents over that of
the profits of a corporate developer, and please vote no to this rezone
proposal.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, we have reconnected with Margaret
O'Neil on Zoom.
Ms. O'Neil, if you'll unmute yourself at this time. Ms. O'Neil
will be followed by John Mueller.
Margaret, you have three minutes.
MS. O'NEIL: Thank you. My name is Peggy O'Neil. I live
at Tarpon Village as a seasonal resident. I would first say that I have
no objection to this remaining as C-3. I think that I had prepared
statements to make, but because the plan has changed so much, as
they say, I'm talking off the cuff.
I'm very upset about listening to all the money that's being
teased in terms of tax benefits, $5,000 per unit, which is, from my
understanding, not being paid for by the owner of the property but
will be paid for by the buyer of the expansive units. If you want
more units in the building, more residential units, why don't you
make them smaller? I don't know exactly how large they are, but I'm
expecting 3,000 square feet per unit since there's only two on each
floor in one of the buildings.
So, in summary, it's late. I also object to the fact that this
meeting did not start until 3:20 p.m., and people were there and
online at 9:00 a.m. I have been following in and out. I'm sorry. I
took a break for dinner, granted you didn't have one, and I'm sorry for
that, but -- so I object to that. I object to 122-foot buildings. I
object to all the environmental issues that will occur as a result of this
building.
And I thank you for your time to speak, and I urge you to vote
January 10, 2023
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no to rezoning. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, we're down to our final two
speakers, but each one has additional time ceded to them. John
Mueller has been ceded additional time from, let me get this straight,
John Kramer.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: He's here.
Kathy, is it Pierce? Is Kathy here?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: I don't see Kathy. What about Jan Dranjesk.
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: Right here.
Okay. That gives you nine minutes, and you have an
eight-minute video, so let's go quick on the intro, sir.
MR. MUELLER: My name's John Mueller. I'm with
Capri.org and an 18-year resident of Isle of Capri.
While the height of the buildings, Commissioners, has been
lowered for whatever reason, it's still over the C-3 height restriction.
But for the past few hours, we've been talking about Isles of Capri
and what Fiddler's Creek is going to try to do to it, so let's take a few
minutes to look at Isles of Capri the way we see it and the way the
Commission saw it when they rejected it 6-1.
So, Troy, let's go to the videotape.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir.
(A video was played as follows:)
The Isles of Capri is known as the jewel of Collier County and is
one of the last Olde Florida sanctuaries. It's home to over 870
households and is accessible by car or boat.
Isles of Capri is part of the Rookery Bay National Estuarine
Research Reserve, which is a national organization committed to
protecting Southwest Florida's coastal environment through research,
January 10, 2023
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education, and land protection.
In this video, we'll take a peek into the lifestyle of Isles of Capri
residents and show you the natural beauty of Capri. We will then
show you the specific reasons why the people here are opposed to the
rezoning request made by FCC Beach and Yacht Club. We will also
summarize why six out of seven Collier County planning
commissioners voted to deny the application on September 15th.
Isles of Capri is two miles north of Marco Island. The relaxed
community is located between the Marco River, Tarpon Bay, and the
Johnson Bay with direct access to the Gulf of Mexico. Most
residents enjoy water views while living in harmony with the
environment.
Isles of Capri is known for a substantial variety of activities of
both land and sea. This includes regular sightings of an assortment
of wildlife, including dolphins and manatee as well as numerous
species of wild birds.
Residents of our neighborly community gather together for a
variety of activities and events throughout the year.
At sundown you'll find people of all ages taking pleasure in the
spectacular views as the sun dips down into the warm gulf waters.
The homes here are occupied by young professionals and retires that
all share a love of water and community spirit.
Part of the charm of Capri is that we have no lights. Our night
lighting comes from the moon and the stars and is not polluted by
city lights. You will also notice that there are no high-rise buildings
anywhere on Capri.
Isles of Capri was a well-kept secret 10 years ago, but now
people travel near and far for the experience or for dining in one of
four relaxed waterside restaurants. The area gives visitors a taste of
laid-back Olde Florida lifestyle not ruined by urban sprawl. If
rezoned, FCC Beach and Yacht Club will build three high-rise,
January 10, 2023
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high-density condominium towers whose activities will ruin the
island's natural beauty and could negatively impact wildlife in the
area.
We will now show you further evidence and specific details as
to why these high-rise condominiums simply do not belong on Isles
of Capri, and we urge your support to have the application for
rezoning denied.
As you can see from this aerial view, all of the homes and
condominiums surrounding the business district as well as the
restaurants and marina presently enjoy an expansive view of the
skyline as well as the natural beauty of the mangroves in the distance.
When you compare that to the proposed structure, you can
immediately see the intrusive and obstructive nature of the high-rise
tower. It's quite obvious that buildings of this size and height are not
compatible in this low-rise community and simply do not belong on
Isles of Capri.
This next water view taken from above the homes on Cristobal
Street again shows resident homes surrounding the business district
and the views they currently enjoy. This rendering shows the
massive size of the three proposed buildings that would permanently
disrupt the landscape with an enormous negative impact to the entire
surrounding neighborhood. You can see Tarpon Village shown here
as well as many other homes on the streets just off Capri Boulevard
that would also be impacted.
When viewing the proposed site from behind the Capri marina,
you get a good perspective of the view that the homes in that area
currently enjoy. Once again, when you compare the current view to
the proposed high-rise structures, you immediately get the sense of
how incompatible and intrusive they would be. Since the conceptual
elevation depicts a view looking down on the proposed complex, you
do not get a true perspective of the massive height of the buildings.
January 10, 2023
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The proposed structures are almost 95 feet higher than the top of the
boatyard tower, which is approximately 75 feet tall.
The applicant has claimed that the proposed property will be a
minimum of 350 feet from other residential properties. As you can
see, measurements taken from Google Earth tell a different story.
One of the residents here on Cristobal Street is only 303 feet from the
proposed property.
This angle also shows just how close the high-rise towers would
be to those same homes, and here's another viewpoint which
emphasizes the close proximity to the homes as well.
To summarize what we've shown in this video, the vast majority
of residents on Isles of Capri have expressed their opposition to the
rezoning request with over a thousand people signing petitions
against it. The proposed structures are simply not compatible or in
harmony with the community. The applicant's request for these
buildings is grossly out of proportion and scale for this area, and
nothing comes close to comparable anywhere on Capri.
The requested density is substantially higher than what the
current zoning provides and would have an immediate negative
impact on residents here. Also, the light pollution disbursed would
be intrusive to everyone in the area. Owners that purchased their
homes anywhere within view of these high-rise monstrosities would
surely be affected by the change in character of what is currently their
island paradise home to a much less desirable busy suburb.
An approval of this zoning variance would set a negative
precedence for future development on the island. It's also apparent
to Capri residents that the developers are only looking to profit from
these buildings and do not care about integrating into the community.
They would be driving a wedge between current residents and future
occupants of these buildings by creating private clubs separating
them. There's simply no discernible benefits to the Isles of Capri
January 10, 2023
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residents for these buildings.
As you probably know, the Collier County Planning and Zoning
staff has stated many of the same concerns we mentioned such as
incompatibility, height, scale, and density, to name a few. After
stating their concerns, they recommended that this application be
denied.
Subsequent to their recommendation and during the
September 15th public hearing on the subject, the Collier County
planning commissioners provided a majority vote with six out of
seven commissioners voting to deny the rezoning application made
by the FCC Beach and Yacht Club. Their message was clear, not
only from their overwhelming vote to deny the application, but from
their comments as well.
Some important examples of the many comments made were
that they didn't see that a case has been made that shows a tangible
benefit or how this would be complementary or compatible to the
community, and further said that even if revised as discussed, it falls
very short. They indicated that there's a precedent set when
something is allowed that could impact future development, and they
confirmed that the applicant does not have the right to build at the
height they are asking.
One of the commissioners summarized it well by saying that the
proposed towers would be inconsistent and incompatible, staff does
not support it, most of the community does not support it, and I can't
support it.
Given the overwhelming opposition from the residents of the
Isles of Capri and including the planning commissioners and the staff
of Collier County, we now urge you to also join in this opposition.
Thank you very much for your time and for your consideration
of how the residents of Isles of Capri will be impacted by this
important decision.
January 10, 2023
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(The video concluded.)
MR. MILLER: All right. Mr. Chair, that leaves us down with
one final speaker, and that is Ralf Brookes. Now, he has been ceded
additional time from Kathy Kurtz.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Kathy's not here.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Dan Koelsch?
(Raises hand.)
MR. MILLER: And, Jeff Pierce?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. So, Mr. Brookes, you will have six
minutes.
MR. BROOKES: Thank you very much. I'm happy to be the
last speaker tonight.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, there's more to come, trust me.
MR. BROOKS: Isles of Capri is not Marco Island. Isles of
Capri is not Vanderbilt Beach. Isles of Capri is its own unique
place, particularly Isles of Capri Island No. 2. It's a low-rise
community. Maybe a mid-rise community with 75 foot-tall
buildings there.
I'm a lawyer for Save Capri, and so I have to say a few lawyer
things, and then I'll get back to talk about what my idea is here at the
end.
First of all, I need to say that the plan amendment is not in
compliance under the state law because it's internally inconsistent
with other policies in your Comp Plan. That would be the Density
Rating System in the Future Land Use Element. This is in the
Coastal Urban Fringe. It's in the Coastal High Hazard Area. It also
proposed buildings and building heights that are not compatible or
complementary, which would violate Policy 5.6 of the Future Land
Use Element as illustrated so clearly by the slide aerial and ground
photographs in Nicole Ashton's [sic] presentation, which we adopt
January 10, 2023
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wholeheartedly and fully.
Three buildings are proposed. All of the heights would exceed
what's out there. It's also not in compliance under the state statute
with 163.3178(8) and lacks data and analysis and fails to react
appropriately to that data and analysis. The hurricane evacuation
times far exceed the level of service that's allowed, and the mitigation
proposed is nowhere near adequate.
Five-thousand-dollar contribution won't pay one year's rent for
an affordable housing tenant. We had the 60-day rental notice
earlier; $5,000 is, you know, not even $500 a month.
We're double dipping the residential density. We're taking
acreage that's already being used for the existing boathouse and using
that to calculate residential density to even further increase residential
density increases in the Coastal High Hazard Area.
The front setback of buildings that are greater than 50 feet are
supposed to be 50 percent or one-half the height. If we're now at
122, we're looking at 61-foot front setback, and that hasn't been
provided.
And, sadly, I'm sorry to say this, but the disclosures of ex parte
communications were not adequate under the Florida Statute or the
case law about constitutional due process.
We adopt the objections of Nicole Ashton with regard to the
Manatee Protection Plan and Johnson Bay and the paddle grass over
100 acres.
Looking to the rezoning standards, the application fails to show
that it will not constitute a grant of a special privilege to an individual
owner contrasting with public welfare and all the other owners on
Isles of Capri Island No. 2.
They're not building in accordance with law. They're trying to
rewrite the law to create a special brand-new district here, Coastal
Urban Fringe Isles of Capri. They're writing their own rules and
January 10, 2023
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regulations and laws and Comp Plan policies in to accommodate their
specific needs. That's granting a special privilege.
The change is out of scale with the needs of the neighborhood,
and that is in the staff report on Page 17. And we believe it's out of
scale according to the slide show shown by Nicole Ashton which
illustrates that, and it will adversely influence the living conditions in
the neighborhood.
The neighbors have all presented competent substantial
evidence. You can consider layperson testimony as competent
substantial evidence if it's fact-based observations, if it's based on
aerials and photographs, codes and Comp Plan policies, and that's all
in the Metro Dade versus Blumenthal and many other cases,
including Sport Acre case.
You should keep in mind that what is -- what is competent
substantial evidence under the Supreme Court case DeGroot versus
Sheffield, it's pretty easy. It should be sufficiently relevant and
material that a reliable mind, such as yourselves, would accept it as
adequate to support the conclusion that you reach.
A plan amendment is legislative. You can say no to a plan
amendment for any reason. You don't have to change your Comp
Plan. You adopted a Comp Plan. You don't have to change it.
And it's legislative; it's unlikely to be overruled in court.
The rezonings, you can say no to a rezoning. First it has to be
consistent with the Comp Plan. Your effective dates in your
rezoning say it's contingent upon approval of that Comp Plan
amendment by the state, which was where it would go from here.
But even if that Comp Plan amendment is approved, you could
still say no to a rezoning for any legitimate public purpose, even if it's
consistent with the Comp Plan, which this one isn't. But you can
still say no to a rezoning request for any legitimate public purpose
under the Snyder versus Brevard standard.
January 10, 2023
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Now, I'm just going to talk a little bit about what we are asking
for you today. If you look at the overhead projector, a similar deal
was proffered at the Planning Commission. They came down in
height during the middle of the Planning Commission meeting.
Maybe it was three-quarters of the way through. They had three
buildings. They had three heights. They have -- you'll see the
Building 1 zoned height 125; actual height 144. Building 2, 105;
actual height 124. Only two feet taller than what's proposed today.
Building 3, 116 and 135.
So the Planning Commission 6-1 denied something that's almost
the same height here. We're looking at 122, but it was 144, 124,
135. So they've already looked at these numbers within this 10-foot
range, maybe -- maybe 11-, 15-feet range. That's, like, one story,
and they've said, no, you need to come down substantially more.
So we would ask that you vote to deny these applications
tonight. And if you are inclined to approved these applications, we
would ask that you send this back to the Planning Commission.
This slide I had to prepare with a Sharpie because I just found
out about this height today, and that's simply unfair to the residents,
unfair to the community and the county residents, as well as
yourselves and the Planning Commission.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Thank you, sir.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Mr. Miller, don't tease me. We're
out of speakers?
MR. MILLER: That is it, sir.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Here's what we're going to
do. First off, on behalf of all the commissioners here, I just want to
say thank you for your professionalism -- this was a marathon
session -- you know, the speakers who came to the podium and were
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very articulate, all of you. I think Matt Crowder said it best. And
this is the process.
So nobody up here is -- has any kind of predetermined decision,
but I know that you-all coming to the podium and those of you that
have stayed here this late -- and I know there's other people online,
we appreciate it. We don't feel like we're here an extended amount
of time or anything. This is what we do, and this is a big decision.
But here's what we're going to do. The next step would be to
bring Mr. Yovanovich back, and he has a chance to make some
comments on what he heard, correct the record, give clarification.
We're going to take a break before that so we don't, sort of, have
this all fragmented. So it's 8:13 now. Let's come -- and because
we've been here quite a long time and we have people in front of the
scenes and behind the scenes, let's come back at 8:30, okay.
(A brief recess was had from 8:13 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. If you can please take your
seats, those that are still in the house.
Okay. So our next order of business here will be to bring back
Rich -- Mr. Yovanovich and have him -- I'm sure he took copious
notes, as we all did, and, you know, it's his chance to add to the story,
rebut, correct the record, ask questions of us and make statements.
So you know the protocol.
Sir, the floor is yours.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Thank you. It's been a long day, so I'm
going to try to -- I'm not going to rebut everything that was said that I
think was incorrectly portrayed in the comments. I'm just going to
hit some highlights. And I'm going to work my way backgrounds, if
you don't mind.
First, I'm going to talk about the last speaker who's, obviously,
an attorney. Just so the Board knows, there were two lawyers for the
group, for each of the individual groups. So despite the person
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saying that they were regular people, they did have experts advising
them as to the process and as to how --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Wait. Come on.
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- which is -- you know what --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead, sir.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Thank you.
And Mr. Brookes, like me, we're just lawyers. We don't
provide expert testimony. We hire experts to provide the testimony
to the Board of County Commissioners and to staff. And I want to
go back to what their expert said with regard to density and with
regard to height.
And, Troy, if you can help me pull up, I think it's Slide 17.
Their expert hired by Mr. Brookes said, density, he defers to
Mr. Bosi. Height, he defers to Mr. Bosi for determining
compatibility. Now, the only independent person in this room is
Mr. Bosi. Mr. Arnold, people -- he's independent, but people can
say, hey, he was hired by my client. Their expert was hired by them.
I believe both of those gentlemen, because they're experts, will tell
you the truth regardless of who hired them. That's their job.
They're AICP certified planners.
So Mr. Arnold will tell you the truth. Whether I like the truth
or not, he's going to tell you the truth, and Mr. Forgey's going to tell
the truth whether they like the truth or not, and Mr. Bosi's going to
tell the truth whether you like it or not.
Mr. Bosi said today he had a problem with height at the
Planning Commission. And what Mr. Brookes put up was the offer
that we made. We staggered the buildings. Mr. Bosi still thought
the tallest building I proposed was still too tall, and that's what he
said, I can't go along with the proposed reduction in height.
So Mr. -- I think Mr. Brookes made the case for why this does
not need to go back to the Planning Commission because they, in
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fact, saw some modifications.
Now, go back to the fact that I tried to talk to the leadership of
both organizations about alternative heights before we went to the
second hearing at the Planning Commission, and here's the letter they
handed to me. This isn't the same envelope, but it was in an
envelope. They handed it to me. I had to open it up. And they
basically said, simply stated, we object to any change or variance in
the current C-3 zone on the business island. They're dug in. No
change. I asked, is this any chance to discuss height or any chance
to discuss density? They told me no. I took them at their word. It
made no sense for me to keep reaching out to them when they made it
very clear, and they made it very clear today, there's nothing to
discuss with them.
They've taken their position, and you'll ultimately decide what
that island lives with forever, because it isn't about just today. It's
about long term what's going to go on that piece of property.
And the postcards you received said something about you'd
rather -- they'd rather see nothing than, I think, the wrong thing, or
whatever the exact words were. Nothing's not an option on this
piece of property. C-3 is our only option if the zoning is denied and,
clearly, C-3 is not consistent with the Growth Management Plan.
Mr. Bosi testified to that.
So Mr. Bosi was clear in his testimony at the Planning
Commission and again today. Mr. Bosi said staff finds the project as
modified to be compatible. Now, with regard to the density that I
think Mr. McDaniel brought up, we did at the Planning Commission
say we would go down to 90 units. Obviously, everything was
rejected. So today, you know, we'll -- actually, we've actually done
the math. Assuming -- and the gentleman was right, it's 68 units
right now, but we want some flexibility in case the market changes
and we would need to build smaller units but more of them. We
January 10, 2023
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think 80 units is a safe density. So we would go from 108 to 80
units based upon the reduction in height. The math works. We've
looked at it. We wanted to leave some flexibility because the market
could change as far as the size. So, again, that was an issue, was
density, for the Planning Commission. Too much density, too much
height. We've addressed both of those -- both of those comments
and concerns.
I could bring Tim Hall up if you want to have him talk about
listed species and go through how he's done his listed species
analysis, but your staff has already determined that we have no
impact on listed species based upon the reports. We already have
our state and federal permits for the docks. I could bring him up
here if you want to talk about all of those issues, but I think your staff
has already analyzed those issues, and your staff has already said
there are no environmental issues related to our project.
A couple of things that was -- going back to the claim that we
somehow surprised them that we were going to reduce the height. I
don't know how they could be surprised. Mr. Bosi made it very
clear that height was the issue, and, certainly, they would expect us to
go talk to Mr. Bosi about what would be a height that staff could
support. Now, we may not have agreed to what his height was, and
we might have fought for a higher height, but we reached an
agreement on what -- the height that Mr. Bosi said he could agree to.
There's no surprise. It's the way the process works.
Just because we lost at the Planning Commission doesn't mean
we can't come to the Board and then talk about modifications to the
Planning Commission. That happens all the time. There's nothing
unusual about that.
One of the things that -- I'm going to take -- I'm going to take
people at their word when they testify under oath. I forget who said,
we've got the culverts under control. We're going to go -- we can get
January 10, 2023
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the culverts. That's not a real benefit to the county or to the island.
I don't think they have it under control, but we're willing to give the
Board of County Commissioners an option. If they've got the
culverts under control, we'll give you the $2 million for affordable
housing. You can have the $2 million towards the affordable
housing or the culverts. We don't care. We think the culverts is
better for the island, but if they've got it under control, great. We'll
give you 2 million plus the 5,000 per unit.
So if we build all 80, that would be 2.4 million towards
affordable housing. You're going to get 2 million in base and
however many units we build on top of that if that's what the
community wants because they've got the culverts under control.
If they think that -- smoke and mirrors with utilities, great, take
it off the table. We'll just build what we've got to build. And if we
don't have to build it big enough to serve the island, they can come
back later and they can upsize, or they can figure out how to upsize it
and come up with the cash if they want it to be upsized to serve them.
But we believe what we were doing was upsizing it, not only the
lines, but the pump stations to the benefit of the people on the island.
If they don't want the benefit, and they think it's smoke and mirrors,
then don't make us do it. If truly we have to do it by the utility, we'll
have to do it, but if we don't, then we can take that off the table. We
don't want to take that off the table. We think it's a genuine benefit.
I'm just going to -- I don't want to spend forever on all the
comments, but one of the -- one of the comments was somehow we're
not a good neighbor. They want to discount the fact that Mr. Ferrao
has made his property available to the people on the island on
multiple occasions to use his property for church services on Easter
and other events. That is a good neighbor. He has done that. He
didn't have to do that. He has done that. He is a good neighbor.
They don't like his current proposal, but that doesn't make him a bad
January 10, 2023
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neighbor.
Just to be clear, if we build commercial on that site, we can
build stand-alone parking garages. We can do that under the C-3.
We could build stand-alone parking garages under C-3. So the
woman who testified that she doesn't like stand-alone parking
garages, saying no to us is not going to result in no stand-alone
parking garages. That's going to happen. That's going to be part of
the commercial project if it goes forward.
What we've done -- and I showed you the landscaping. You
will not see the first two levels. You will not see the first two levels
of that parking garage because we are going to landscape the heck out
of it, as done by other developers along Moorings Park. So we
are -- you're not going to see what they claim -- they don't want to see
the concrete; they're not going to see it.
I don't -- I respectfully disagree that the comments regarding the
food truck park that the island was split, it was not 5-0, you all were
here. This room was packed with people who were opposed to that
food truck park. I don't remember -- maybe one or two at most
spoke in favor of that food truck park, but that island was pretty
uniform in "we don't want the food truck park. We don't want the
traffic."
What alternative has the least impact on the infrastructure for
Isles of Capri? Residential. Less traffic. Less everything. So if
the residents are worried about impacts on infrastructure, residential's
the right answer. And you heard them say they're worried about the
roads. Residential is less traffic, especially now that it's down to 80
units compared to what we could do on commercial.
They're never going to get just Backwater Nick's on that piece of
property, and it's going to be an intense development if it has to be
commercial. I don't think that that's the legacy that wants to be on
that property. I don't think that's the legacy that the Planning
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Commission even wanted on that property. I think they were -- the
majority was residential was the right answer. The question was
height and density.
Mr. Bosi has said residential's the right answer. We resolved
the height issue, and we've reduced the density. The Comprehensive
Plan wants that to be a residential mixed-use piece of property.
We're not double dipping. And, of course, you can do a Growth
Management Plan amendment to address projects. That's why you
do amendments. And, you know, Mr. Brookes says you could do
amendments. We can do amendments. We've met all the
requirements for an amendment.
And those are the highlights of what I wanted to address. There
were a lot of other things that were said that I don't -- I don't think it
will be productive to go back and forth on.
But with that, my team's here to answer any questions you may
have regarding our project. I hope -- I hope we've done a good job
outlining the project and explaining the proposal and taking into
consideration the impact or the comments from your staff.
We didn't make the residents happy, obviously, but I think it's a
great project for that island, and it's going to be -- in the long term,
they're going to say thank you. In the short-term they're not. But I
think if they ended up with Tin City, they'd be really, really upset
with that island.
And with that, we're available to answer any questions.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So to my colleagues, we've got
multiple options, but two I wanted to throw out. We can keep
Mr. Yovanovich up here and ask him questions, and we could also
bring him back, or we could bring up Mr. Bosi, if -- you know,
Mr. Bosi, if you want to take the podium and make any
comments -- a lot of things that were said that are in your area of
expertise -- before we start getting into Q&A and some discussion
January 10, 2023
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here. I mean, my suggestion, unless there's any objections from the
commissioners, would be to give you a chance to speak at the podium
and give some closing comments, some corrections, anything that
you want to stress.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'd also like to bring up Mr. French.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. All right.
Mr. Bosi, and then Mr. French on deck.
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Zoning and Planning director. I
wasn't really contemplating any closing remarks. I will say that the
two issues that were main issues at the Planning Commission were
height and density. The reduction in height, the reduction in density
that's being proposed, staff feels like those issues have been
addressed.
I really do feel that the substitution of residential for commercial
in an overall impact to the area is beneficial. I understand the
neighborhood's concerns related to the height of the properties. I
believe with the 80-foot clock tower that currently exists, the zoning
that exists to the north and to the east with the RMF-16 property that
can go up to 100 -- or to 95 to 100 feet as a matter of right establishes
a context towards where 122 feet can be found compatible with the
area, and I think they've shown a number of different areas within the
county, within the island, that taller buildings and shorter structures
can be arranged.
This is the business island. It's the island that's supposed to
have the most intensity. It's the island that is designated for this type
of activity. I think substituting commercial for mixed-use residential
is an improvement. I feel that the public benefit that would be
provided -- and I know that there's been some questions as to whether
the culverts, the flushing culverts were going to be of value. If those
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aren't of value, I know 2 million -- an additional $2 million towards
the Affordable Housing Trust Fund would be of value.
Overall, staff is willing and will support the project, the revised
project as stated, or as modified.
Any questions that you may have from my perspective -- I know
that from Jaime Cook's perspective from, like, the Manatee
Protection Plan, it was indicated that there was some violations. I
know we've looked at it, and we feel that they've satisfied the
requirements of those. And some of those requirements of the
Manatee Protection are also applied when they go apply for a Site
Development Plan, and those would be fleshed out as well.
But our staff has looked at it, all of your Emergency
Management, Transportation, Utilities, Stormwater, all of our
reviewing departments have signed off on the project. It was only
Zoning and Planning -- Planning and Zoning that had the
recommendations of denial. With the modifications, staff has -- staff
is recommending approval to the Board of County Commissioners.
Any questions that you may have...
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So a question I have for you, and
then I'll see if any of my colleagues light up here, since you're
standing there. One of the things that always concerns me about C-3
is it gives you a lot of latitude.
The citizens in the audience here, a lot of the specificity that you
talked about you liked or didn't like, you can negotiate it with a
developer -- and I'm just talking generically now. I'm not saying this
developer. But you have the latitude to negotiate some things.
Let me just ask you point-blank. If that property stayed C-3
and it was either sold or this current applicant decided to develop it,
without having to go through Planning Commissions and -- if a
developer was coloring within the box on that piece of acreage, what
is the -- I don't want to say the maximum, but what is the likelihood
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of -- because I heard something about 80,000-square-foot -- 80,000
square feet of shopping mall, restaurants, and all that could happen
with very little movements, right? I mean, it's within C-3.
Paint a picture for us, if we keep it C-3 and whether it's sold or
not, what that property owner could do without having to ask a whole
bunch of "Mother, may I's" because C-3 would allow them to do it.
What could be put on that property?
MR. BOSI: There could an arrangement of retail on the
bottom, office on the second, third, and fourth floor, parking
underneath. As I said, it's got a 50-foot zoned height. You're
allowed to put -- if you put two -- if you put two floors of parking
within your principal structure, within that principal, so that 50-foot
gets raised to 75-foot. You could have a 70-foot building -- tall
building with retail on the first floor and office on top of that upwards
of 80,000 square feet. That's -- but I don't know if there's a market
for that, but there could be that. That would be allowed. And there
wouldn't be anything other than an administrative approval that
would be required to provide for approval of that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It wouldn't have to go through all
types of these kind of --
MR. BOSI: No.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It meets C-3 and --
MR. BOSI: There would be no public vetting.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. When you talked about
mixed -- it could be mixed-use. It could be. It also could just be all
commercial, right, on that property? So it could just be a mixture of
shops and restaurants and --
MR. BOSI: What described was --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- with an open parking garage?
And we wouldn't have the latitude to be able to negotiate landscape
and, you know, architecture and all those things? I mean, we always
January 10, 2023
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could offer it, but under C-3 that developer has an awful lot of things
at their disposal they don't have to ask permission to do, correct?
MR. BOSI: Correct. I mean, it's commercial zoning. They
can -- and they're -- like I said, they're allowed to build to a zoned
height of 50 feet, which could translate to an actual height of 70 feet.
And what I described, retail on the bottom, office on the top, those
are all variations of commercial. So that's not mixed-use. That's all
commercial.
And the -- the traffic that's associated with commercial is higher
in number in terms of -- and I think they described it. You know, it
would be double. Now, with the reduction from 108 to 80, it would
be even more than double than what's being proposed.
So there are -- there are a lot of potential negatives that could be
associated with the impact to -- or the impact on the infrastructure
with a commercial development, but that's what's vested right now,
and they have a right to do that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have a couple quick
questions, Mike. C-3 is, by right, convertible at what density to
residential?
MR. BOSI: The conversion of commercial, which
Mr. Yovanovich feels would apply to this property, the Coastal
Urban Fringe does not avail itself to the conversion, but that's -- with
every acre of commercial that you convert to residential, you'd be
eligible for 16 units an acre.
And just, by the way, what -- the revised proposal at 80 units an
acre just gets you under -- right under that. It's about 15.5, 15.6 units
an acre.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It would allow for 85 units.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Eighty-five, yeah, that's what I had
here.
January 10, 2023
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My other question I
had -- and I don't know. One of the questions that I had for you is
the parking garage without limitation. Talk to me a little bit about
the "without limitation" stipulation.
MR. BOSI: I'm not sure why that was placed within the -- and
they indicated it was in the staff report there is a limitation. The
limitation is 40 feet. That's the height limitation, so, I mean --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's without height
limitation, not limitations at large.
MR. BOSI: I mean, that's -- I mean, the limitation on that
parking garage is 40 feet.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MR. BOSI: So it's not unlimited where they can create, you
know, an unlimited and untethered parking garage. It is -- there's a
40-foot limitation associated with that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is it unusual for someone to
aggregate density off of an area of a project onto another area of a
project?
MR. BOSI: Oh, it's what we do in the county. We aren't very
embracive of vertical mixed-use. Vertical mixed-use means when
you have your retail and your residential in the same structure. We
prefer horizontal mixed-use, and a horizontal mixed-use project is
still considered mixed-use by our codes, and what that allows for is
when you have a mixed-use project, the entire acreage of your project
is what you can calculate your residential density upon even though
some of that property would be dedicated to a commercial-only
quadrant or building. That's just how our code has been developed.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And when we're
contemplating -- because it was mentioned, and it's not a secret,
there's a lot of vacant land around this project that's going to get
developed at some stage. Who makes the determination as to what
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the maximum densities and capacities of those sites can be?
MR. BOSI: The Growth Management Plan makes the
determination. If the applicant's not satisfied with that
determination, they can seek an amendment to the Growth
Management Plans such as this applicant's doing, and then,
ultimately, it's the five commissioners that will make the decision as
to what's appropriate.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Is your department the one
that makes the decision with regard to the capacity for the sewer?
MR. BOSI: No, no. We would turn to our Public Utilities
folks for the available capacity within the project area.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's where I want to go
next. And in then -- that's where I want to go now. That's -- I'm
done with him until I get to the applicant.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
Mr. Bosi, I want to try to explore what might be some of the
worst-case scenarios. Pardon me. You know, office tower, that's
not likely in a location like that. Eighty thousand square feet of
mixed-use commercial with parking garages, again, not a likely use
there.
You're going to have to refresh my recollection a little bit.
When the food truck park came before us, was that -- what location
was that to be in?
MR. BOSI: That was in -- where the location of this project is,
if you would say all the -- the easternmost portion of the island, that's
where that location was. It was the easternmost portion of the island
to the west of the roadway.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Under the C-3 zoning that's
there now, would that type of project be permitted on this -- on this
parcel?
January 10, 2023
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MR. BOSI: Would a food truck park be permitted?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Some kind of a, you know,
food truck park or some kind of -- I look a Stan's Idle Hour for
example, which is very well contained because it's really only a
Sunday afternoon event. But I'm thinking in terms of could there be
a Stan's Idle Hour type operation on this property that has loud music,
bands, that sort of thing, in the C-3?
MR. BOSI: Oh, without a doubt, you know, a restaurant/bar
outdoor venue with outdoor amplified sound most certainty is a
permitted use within the C-3 zoning district.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Because it seems to me that
that would be the real money generator on a parcel like this. If you
don't do residential, you're going to do some kind of water-related
food and beverage and alcohol, loud -- you know, music and that sort
of thing. Something like a Stan's Idle Hour only on steroids,
something like the food truck park on Bayshore that people have
been complaining about the loud music there because they operate, I
think, now seven days a week. Is that the kind of operation that
could be in this -- on this parcel?
MR. BOSI: Without a doubt. I mean, take away the food
truck aspect of it. If you just have a restaurant/bar with a patio and a
space for a band to be able to play, that's a permitted use in the C-3
zoning district.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And that's kind of my
concern. I've got mixed emotions about this whole -- the project.
I've listened to the neighbors, and I certainly feel their pain here, but
I'm concerned also on the other end that if a residential project isn't
approved, then, you know, what's the worst-case scenario there, and I
think it could be a lot worse. I don't think it would be parking
garages and four- or five-story office towers with a restaurant
enclosed. I don't think that's -- I don't think that would be the real
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money-making operation there. I think it would be a real bar and
music type of an operation, a nightlife thing outdoors for the most
part. That's just one of my concerns. But, anyway, I appreciate
your response there.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Let's have Mr. French come and
take the microphone. I know Commissioner Hall had a question.
COMMISSIONER HALL: If you could, Mr. French, just
explain to us the elevations there for what the benefits would be for
the sewer line.
MR. FRENCH: Sure. And I can probably answer your sewer
utility, because that's within the Marco Island Wastewater District
area.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Okay.
MR. FRENCH: So, Commissioner, I spoke with the engineer
of record, Mark Minor, for this project. We're constantly -- I do
serve as your floodplain administrator for Collier County and
resiliency officer. So when I look at these properties, I'm also
looking at what my grade elevation is and what that development
might take. In this particular area, we've got great elevation,
somewhere in the range between two-and-a-half to five feet.
Post Hurricane Ian, what happens is that FEMA comes along
with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and probably Michael Baker
or AECOM, they're a contractor, and they'll come out, and they may
have amendments or addendums to what was adopted through the
Federal Registry.
Currently right now, those elevations run -- and Mark
confirmed, but it's about four feet. We were guessing somewhere
between two-and-a-half and five feet of -- it's called the NAVD,
which is your North American Vertical Datum information that
FEMA uses. But the finished floor elevation just for a parking
garage for this area, they're going to have to elevate that site to nine
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feet. And those historic structures that have been here a long
time -- only because we also do the damage assessment for you for
this community. We drove that community. If there was four feet
of water, I bet you it was closer to five.
And, Commissioner LoCastro, you and I drove, too. It's the
reason why we saw all the drywall and the furniture out and the
cabinets, because we knew everything went under water. And we do
appreciate the community sentiment and feedback with regards to
how fast we responded and helped them with permitting.
But no doubt that this site's going to have to be elevated just
parking alone. And by right, even if it's at a commercial use, they're
going to get two stories of parking. Average parking could be
somewhere between 12 and 14 feet per story just based off of that
design.
So design standards are going to be regulated by your Florida
Building Code. We have no local authority over that. The state is
the authority having jurisdiction, and they are going to follow your
National Flood Insurance Program as well as your FEMA guidelines
with regards to development standards. What we do at the local
level is we will look at stormwater, we will look at those things, even
the utilities as far as how they're working along.
Now, with regards to utilities, if you don't mind, sir, so we know
that even some of these older homes that have the historic septic
tanks and drainfields, water flows down. It doesn't flow up. These
are gravity fed. You typically have a 4-1 slope. That's regulated by
the Department of Health. There are alternative designs. Many of
these homes that have replaced their septic tanks and drainfields over
the years, they may have employed those alternative designs that are
approved by the state and the Health Department.
So they may not see the backup in the shower, but you take a
30-, 40-year-old structure that's sitting at about six to seven feet, there
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is no way you took that water and water didn't come up through the
drains. We saw it through our stormwater system. We saw it
throughout homes throughout the entire county that make up that
urban fringe that were dated.
So there has to be a letter of adequate capacity. So whether you
achieve that by a package plant on their site, they do a design criteria
that's consistent with the Department of Environmental Protection
rules and Marco Island's design standards, but we can't issue a permit
for them to move forward to develop until they provide us with that
letter of adequate capacity or that agreement that exists between the
utility service provider and them as the property owner.
So Collier County is not within the water and sewer district as
far as both. It is in George's water district, and I did confirm that
with Dr. Yilmaz, but they would -- they would have to take service
by the City of Marco. That's the closest utility. And the alternative
would be, perhaps, a package plant. And I know from many years
ago I learned a lot from Mr. Klatzkow and Commissioner Saunders
when he worked in this business with us. That's pretty expensive,
but it is a must, and the state will not -- they won't bat at eye at this
stuff.
COMMISSIONER HALL: What is a typical assessment to
hook into the sewer if you have -- if you can't go back with your
septic?
MR. FRENCH: I don't know what the City of Marco rates are.
Do you know --
MS. PATTERSON: So the last time that the county did a joint
septic-to-sewer and stormwater project was actually a partnership
with the City of Naples. That assessment started out at about
$125,000 per home, which was bought down with a number of grants
and other funding sources. The second phase of that project
currently is coming in at $40,000 per home.
January 10, 2023
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Now, the complexity of this particular area is its
geographic -- more geographic isolation and also its proximity to
tide. So even those numbers may not be applicable to what would
be required on Isles of Capri, making it a challenging assessment
situation.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Now, Ms. Patterson, I just wanted
to chime in on what you just said. So the buying down of the septic
so the residents weren't stuck with that full bill, how long did that
take to negotiate that to get that buy-down? Obviously, that's not
something that you do in a week. So that was in play for quite a
long time, correct?
MS. PATTERSON: Correct. First of all, the partnership on
that project by itself without the funding pieces took a long time
between the city and the county, but the funding piece took several
years from beginning to end, nearly killing the first phase of that
project at one point in time; however, we did leverage both state and
Water Management District money which was the concept that we
were putting forward for the eventual conversions on Isles of Capri.
And the residents were correct when they -- when they quoted
us as saying, we won't go in and deal with the stormwater until we
can deal with the septic-to-sewer, because moving stormwater faster
in an area that is septic is not environmentally the correct answer.
Same problem that we had in the West Goodlette project. That one
happened to outfall into an impaired water body that then outfalled
into Naples Bay. So you're dealing with very, very environmentally
sensitive areas in both of these.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So confirm or deny for me, in
order to get the buy-down money, not only does it take a long time,
but don't you typically -- the money we get from the state, before
they even consider that over many years of fighting for it, typically
they want us to have design -- 50 percent of the funding already in
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pocket? Go through the list, if you would, of the couple things that
you have to have before you have everything under control for septic
tanks.
MS. PATTERSON: Sure. So, first of all, typically how these
work, because this is a multiple jurisdictional situation, we have
interlocal agreements between the county and the municipality saying
that we're going to enter into this project together. At that point, we
would contemplate how we were going to -- if there's not a master
plan in place, which in this case Marco Island has done some of that
preliminary work of what it would look like to do the septic-to-sewer
conversion. Building on that, we would need to enter into a design
contract to be able to figure out how we're going to design this.
The closer to shovel ready that we get with design plans, the
better chances that we have for getting funding from various grantor
agencies.
Now, there's been conversations about whether or not money
might be provided earlier to help with some of these designs, and we
could approach that. But, conceptually, the city and the county need
to be moving in the right direction together and, most importantly, is
that the residents have to buy in as well, because forcing an
assessment onto residents that don't want it adds complication, and
that was one of the complications of the Goodlette project was the
cost and the belief that we could do stormwater without
septic-to-sewer.
So all of these need to be running on a parallel path for the
greatest success in moving the project forward as well as getting
other funding -- other folks to come in as funding partners.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: So something I wanted to say, and
then I'll go to Commissioner McDaniel, is first of all, I listened to the
residents, okay. And those of you that don't think I do, then maybe
we need to talk a little bit more. But I'm also here to separate rumor
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from fact. So when some people come to the podium and say the
culverts are taken care of; septic-to-sewer, we've got that sort of
worked out. You know, we traded a couple of emails with Marco
Island. Okay. This might be separate from the towers, but I want to
take this time to separate rumor from fact and tell you that none of
those things are under control.
I did reach out to Tallahassee, and exactly what they said is, we
don't even have Isles of Capri on the map. You are so far down on
the list because over the last 10 years you should have been talking to
us to get the grant money the way that we have in other areas of
Collier County where we got it and didn't stick the citizens with a
$40,000 bill.
So it's not a matter of two phone calls and talking to somebody
on Marco Island that says it's in my hands. Trust me, we are at Step
Negative 1, and it's unfortunate because a whole lot of things could
have been done over the years when a lot of money was available.
And how do I know a lot of money was available? Because we got
it for other areas of Collier County, and Isles of Capri wasn't even in
the discussion.
So that has nothing to do with the three towers. But I'm here
talking to the senior leadership of Isles of Capri, and you said a lot of
things that -- some people did -- at the podium, and I just wanted to
correct that.
Don't take the culverts for granted either. And it took how
many years to build one? And it has made a big difference, and the
reason I know that is because I've -- you know, I helped pull a culvert
committee together, and in my office they exponentially talked about
how, wow, we really need three, and it's obvious how the one culvert
has been very successful.
And a culvert isn't $5,000, and that's something that if we want
to put two -- add two more in, it's similar to septic. As your
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commissioner, I don't just get a check from the county. It has to be
in the budget. It has to be -- these are things that should have been
talked about five years ago.
So I do take exception to folks that come to the podium say,
well, you know, we've got it handled. We have it handled. No,
we're in the very early stages, and I commend the people that have
been on those teams working with me, you know, Mr. Crowder, and
then all the people that, you know, we've pulled together. But we're
in the genesis stages of those type of things, whether it's culverts that
we're going to get money for or fighting for the septic-to-sewer
money.
And then the conversation between the sewer and Marco, I
forget the exact terminology that somebody said here, but they said,
when the time is right, right? They said that in 2019. The time will
never be right unless your county commissioner and you-all as senior
leaders make the time right and we fight to figure out the best type of
sewer system for Isles of Capri.
And I'm here to tell you that has never been done aggressively.
It's been sort of batted around, and we did get the exact. In 2019 -- it
predates me in the seat -- we did get their normal response which is,
yeah, we'll talk about it when the time is right. The time was right
10 years ago, folks. You know, the time was right 10 years ago.
And so this has nothing to do with the towers or little to do.
But I just wanted to comment on that because a lot of people
said some big things in here, and also you utilized my name. We're
working very hard to do those things, but we are at Step Negative 1
on most of those things that a few people implied were well under
control. And so before you dismiss possible investment by any
applicant, this person or the person who might build an
80,000-square-foot shopping center, these are very, very expensive
investments that our community of Isles of Capri has needed for a
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very, very long time. Those septic tanks aren't getting any newer.
And somebody here that said all the toilets flushed perfectly, I heard
from a couple of you during the hurricane and even before that that
might be a little bit of an overstatement. I'll just leave it at that.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and that leads right
into my question, and that's who determines the capacity of the line
enhancement that the developer's proposing, and how do we ensure
that that is a benefit for the community at large, ultimately? Because
I actually have another idea that I'd like to float out with regard to
that so that we don't burden the community when we -- if that line is
enhanced sufficiently, how we get there.
MR. FRENCH: So what happens, Commissioner -- and if you
look at your summary agenda or consent agenda that we bring you
with regards to the transfer of ownership from a development to the
county on utilities, Marco Island would accept that utility. So it's
going to be at Marco standards, but it must meet the Florida
Department of Environmental Protection's regulations.
So much like what Mr. Yilmaz does and comes up here and
talks about his design and rate base and, really, the contributions that
his -- that his wonderful group of colleagues comes along and says,
this is how we guarantee service, Marco has that same responsibility,
and the state holds them to that. So their ultimate still -- the
regulatory body's the state.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Maybe I'm asking the wrong
question. Forgive me if I am.
What I'm trying to get to is the developer has agreed to size the
incoming sewer line to support the Isles of Capri, not today, but today
and going forward. And how is that ensured? Am I asking the
wrong question?
MS. PATTERSON: Marco Island Utility would need to be a
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participant in this conversation to ensure that that sewer line can
serve the future needs of Isles of Capri.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So maybe I need to ask a
question of the developer with regard to that or --
MR. FRENCH: That would be to include all the properties
sized to that. So that may be your commitment, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Well, that's what I
have swimming around for now.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'm guessing Marco wouldn't hate
that, right, I mean, if there was an investment in that line?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If they've got the capacity.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Absolutely.
MS. PATTERSON: Nor would the people that will ultimately
be the recipient, because those are costs that will not be included in
the future assessment.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right. And while we're waiting
for the juggle here, I'll just look at Mr. Crowder and just say, Matt,
whether you're president or not, we're not sticking these people with a
$40,000 bill for their septic-to-sewer conversion, whenever that
happens, okay? Before, during, or after my tenure, okay? And
plenty of residents have gotten stuck with that because of lack of
preparation, and I don't want to see that happen on Isles of Capri.
Mr. Yovanovich.
MR. YOVANOVICH: We already have a commitment in our
PUD that says we will design and size that line to accommodate not
only us, but the residents of Isles of Capri. I'll say it's a simple
calculation because I'm not the engineer, but they'll go out and figure
out how many lots are out there and how many homes are out there.
They'll figure what our capacity -- what we're going to do, and we'll
have to size that force main and the pumps station to accommodate us
and what's there in the vacant lots that are still on the island.
January 10, 2023
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CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The entire community of Isles of
Capri.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And we'll bring the pipe to our project.
You'll have to connect into it, but what you connect into will be big
enough --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: What's your guestimate of the
estimate of the cost of that?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, my engineer says the upsize is
about a million two. I don't know the total cost of the line, but
it's -- we're committed to doing it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, the total costs we'll
deal with after the fact. My question -- have you had conversation
with the Marco Utility that they have --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You have?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes. Our engineer, Mark Minor, has
been talking to the utilities. Because we know, even if we get
approved from you guys, we've still got to get them to agree to
provide service. So we've had those conversations about assuring
we're going to get sewer service.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Mr. Yovanovich, I guess I'm just
going to ask -- because I know your project only goes so far down
from the islands. There's the four islands. So is there an -- there's
an existing from what I understand, right? There's already a line that
comes from all the way out on the point where the other condo
buildings are. Are they in the Marco sewer system? Do we know
that?
MS. PATTERSON: They are, yes.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah. My engineer is telling me, yes,
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they are in the Marco --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: So there is a line that leads up
and passes you at some point, and then you would continue your line
from your property out to where it would hook up with Marco out on
951.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Let me bring my engineer up here, but I
think we would build a parallel line.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: You would take it all the way
down to the point?
MR. YOVANOVICH: No, no, to us, and then you would
to -- you or --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. That's what I'm saying,
because you're saying you're going to guarantee service to everybody
on the island.
MR. YOVANOVICH: What I'm saying is I --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: They're also on the island on the
other side of you. That's all -- I'm just trying to figure out how that
happens.
MR. MINOR: My name is Mark Minor. I'm a civil engineer
with Grady Minor.
We would size the sewage force main from the project that we're
discussing today out to 951 to handle the entire flows from the Isles
of Capri. We would build the master pump station somewhere near
the MPUD to handle the flows that would be incoming from the far
side of the island.
There's a sewage force main that comes from the far side of the
island now that goes out to 951, but it's small. It's old. We're using
it for the boat barn, as you call it, but it doesn't have the capacity for
anything else, according to the City of Marco Island.
So the next -- prior to the next CO in the C-3 area, you need to
have a new line in. They don't want to use the 4-inch. We'll pull
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that one out and put it in the line, either what we need or what we're
proposing is that the entire island needs.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. I understand. I
understand you're going to put in a parallel from where your property
is. I'm just trying to wrap my head around how does that one-third
of the people that live on the island that is beyond your property, do
they tie into that existing smaller line when the time comes?
MR. MINOR: No, they'll construct a new line.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Who constructs that?
MR. MINOR: Yeah, Marco Island Utilities.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: And then they have to buy into
it?
MR. MINOR: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. So you're not going to
service the whole island. I'm trying to get clarity on that. You're
only going to service from your property out to 951.
MR. MINOR: We're going to size the lines to take all of the
flow.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I understand that. I understand
that. I understand that. I understand that.
MR. YOVANOVICH: We're going to make --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: What I'm just trying
to -- because I know words are words, and the exact words were,
we're going to make sure that our line can support the whole island of
Capri.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Right. So they'll tap into it. They will
tap into our line, and our line will be big enough for them to tap in
and service the island.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I know. I just want to be clear
with the people, because some of them are going to end up paying.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Of course. I mean, it --
January 10, 2023
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(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: That's all. That's all. I just
want to make it clear, because if you say you got it, you got this,
but --
MR. YOVANOVICH: But part of the cost will be out of the
project that they have to pay into because we will have built the
line --
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: No, I understand.
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- and the master pump station. So the
cost of the overall project will, in fact, come down.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: It will reduce, I do understand
that. I just want to be clear that at some point some residents are
going to have a buy-in at some cost, even to get to your line.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes, yes.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. That's all. I just wanted
to make sure.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: One of the things I'll say as a
minimum is Marco Island for years -- and somebody even quoted
here -- says, you know, when the time is right, we'll continue to talk
about all these things, and that's been sort of the response that we've
got from them that this hasn't necessarily been a priority. Without
the risk of sort of over-summarizing here, what this project would do
is it would make it easier for Marco possibly to say yes, because
we've done some things that have made it less difficult for Marco
Island to sort of start from scratch. It doesn't guarantee anything, but
it certainly, I think, would open up the dialogue.
I know Commissioner McDaniel's lit up. Once he's done, one
of the things I would just ask of my colleagues, so we're talking about
all these investments and, you know, citizens out there might call it
carrots, horse trading. These are important investments, but what I
would ask is after Commissioner McDaniel is done, we're trying to
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decide what's right for that property, okay.
So the sewer lines are great; it's not lost on me. Culverts are
great; not lost on me. Love to have them. The affordable housing
investment, trust me, we need every penny that we can get. But in
the end, we're not going to put the wrong thing on that piece of
property because we got a couple -- or we got significant investment,
which I'm not discounting.
But I'd like to bring the conversation back to, something's going
to go on there. And, you know, I appreciated using -- whoever did
the postcards, it was my quote that said I'd rather see nothing than the
wrong thing. The disappointing thing was that was totally taken out
of context. I've said that quote for things like the Sports Complex.
If the county owns 500 acres of land, I'd rather see nothing on that
land than maybe something that costs $200 million that I think is a
mistake.
Something is going on this. So those postcards that all said,
you know, "nothing or wrong thing," nothing isn't an option. And
I'd really like to bring this conversation back to then. We know what
we can get. The applicant has been very generous in offering things
that definitely are not easy to get. I can tell you right now, if all this
disappears and we want to build those two culverts, this
commissioner is going to be fighting with the county to get this on a
list that it should have been on for the last three to five years. But
having said that, we're trying to -- you know, we're not going to put
the wrong thing on that footprint because, you know, of some
additional things, I would hope.
But I'll go to Commissioner McDaniel, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'd like to speak to Mr. Hall
about those culverts, because it's a nice discussion for us to say, don't
do the culverts and we'll throw $2 million at affordable housing. But
I'd like to hear -- if you could, please, give us a brief rendition of the
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value of those culverts for the environment.
MR. HALL: So when somebody earlier today -- sorry. You
know what, I was out of the room when you swore everybody in. I
haven't actually been sworn in, so I probably should do that.
(The speaker was duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
MR. HALL: I do.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How about if we all go like
this (indicating).
MR. HALL: So when the islands were -- those were actually
separate islands prior to the development of that. So there was free
flow of water all the way around them. When they were developed,
causeways were built between them, and that flow was blocked. So
it changed the movement of water through there. And over time, as
more development has happened, you get more pollutants that go into
the water.
And, you know, the engineers, I know, always say that the
solution to pollution is dilution. You know, I prefer to say the
solution is stopping it at the source. But in this case where you've
already got -- you know, everybody that moves down here wants
their green yards, they've got their fertilizers, you're going to have
runoff. And so to deal with runoff, you need good movement of the
water and good exchange.
So without that exchange, you get lower dissolved oxygen
levels, you get less light penetration, sediments can build up in those
areas, so every time you get a windy day, the sediments get stirred up
and they get re-suspended in. All of that is a result of poor
movement. By putting the culvert in and creating more movement
through there, then it gives more chance for the dissolved oxygen to
increase, your bacterial activity increases. It's just the whole litany
of things that happen that help to improve the water quality. And
when you see the improvement in water quality, then you see the
January 10, 2023
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improvements in the ecology as a whole throughout the area.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Perfect. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I'll just add that the Isles of Capri
culvert team that we've formed, and I've spent quite a bit of time
meeting with them in my office, if anybody wants to take a look, they
brought me quite a few very large charts where they've done a lot of
work.
So, you know, I'm here to separate rumor from fact. You can't
have it both ways. But the committee that is representing all of you
is fighting in my office showing me aerial photos of the one culvert
on Isles of Capri and how much it has improved the water. You
can't -- I mean, you don't have to be a marine biologist to see the
difference in the water color, quality, clarity, and then the areas
where culverts are long overdue by their own admission and their
own, you know, positive push. They've made the case and have
shown, you know, graphically why these culverts are extremely
important.
So whether it's part of this project or not, your own culvert team
has been fighting for the two culverts and have brought the proof that
we need so that I can fight for getting it into the budget
whether -- you know, if we get it from this developer or any other
one, great, but if we don't, the importance -- and these are folks that
are representing your own community.
So if you think you've got the wrong people talking to me and
the culverts are no big deal or, you know, you're about to build them
on your own, I have -- nobody's told me that.
But, you -- sir, you said it, you know, perfectly, you know, you
say dilution, but that's sort of what we talked about, that if we can get
the water moving better -- and they were even talking facts and
figures about how there's less fish even on the wrong side of the
culverts now. I think one or two people that are on the team have
January 10, 2023
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lived on Isles of Capri a long time, so this isn't stuff that's being made
up.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And now I want to switch
back to the sewer and just to offer up a thought. Because with
the -- if this project gets approved, there's going to be an
enhancement to the sewer line that will service the entire community.
One of the propositions that I'd like to throw out that I would be in
support of is some kind of an internal TIF, because you shared that
there was a $2.9 million increase in ad valorem taxation.
MR. YOVANOVICH: There's a -- it's not an increase, but it's
2.9 million. It's going to come down a little bit because the density's
coming down. But the difference in what you will receive in taxes
from the residential versus the commercial is a significant difference
in value. So those monies could -- however you want to use them.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and those are monies
that go into the General Fund. It's not something -- I see our County
Manager over there rubbing her -- rubbing her brow, but it's a
thought. As opposed to having to fight for the money, it's a need,
and it -- the greater good being served. And we all know because of
the tidal surge that this experienced down there, that moving from
septic to municipal services is imperative for the environment, for the
ecological welfare of everything that's going on. So that's something
that I would support as we go forward if, in fact, the project is, in
fact, approved, that we assist with that burden of that expense for the
residents. Because that takes care of what Commissioner Kowal was
talking about as well is an opportunity to pay for, to extend those
lines to the other third, or whatever portion of the island isn't
necessarily served, so that's -- that's an additional benefit to this as
well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
January 10, 2023
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
So we have two pots of money here, and it sounds like there's
some question as to whether or not they're going to be spent for that
specific purpose. The first pot is the upsizing of the line; that's going
to cost X. There's an engineer that can tell us what the difference is
between a normal-sized line and an upsized line.
The other issue is the culverts. There's been some testimony
that the culverts are well in hand. We can determine what the cost of
the culverts would be, an engineer can tell us, the two culverts. So
we have those two pots of money.
If this is approved, right now we don't know whether either one
or both of those pots of money are going to be used for that specific
purpose, but we can require the developer to make the commitment
that those two pots of money are going to be determined, the amount
will be determined by an engineer, and that money will be set aside.
If it's not used for the sewer line or if it's not used for the culverts,
then it goes into our Affordable Housing Trust Fund. So we don't
have to come to a conclusion tonight other than we want those two
pots of money to be available.
So if there's a motion to approve this, I would suggest that we do
it that way so we have some flexibility, because if the Marco Island
sewer entity determines that they don't want to play ball with us,
well, we still want that money for the other purpose, unless I'm
missing something, but I think that's --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well -- and the project can't
go forward if the utility won't accept the effluent.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No. Well, their project can
go forward. It's a question of whether the sewer line is going to be
enlarged to accommodate the entire island.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: And if there was a problem with
that, the money would just be turned into affordable housing money
January 10, 2023
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if there was an argument or -- the value of that line would still come
to the county.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We have those two questions
as to whether or not we're going to use those funds for that purpose,
so let's just make sure that we have the funds available in whatever
approval.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My understanding is is the
cost is going to be whatever -- there are estimates as to what those
costs are for the culverts and for the sewer line, and those are going
to be completed to satisfaction of the Marco utility to support the
entire island.
MS. PATTERSON: They're proposing an upsized pipe --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand.
MS. PATTERSON: -- versus what they need to serve their
project, I think, is what Commissioner Saunders is referring to is if
for some reason they go with just the size to serve their project, then
that differential would then flex over to the -- to the Affordable
Housing Trust Fund.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And the same is true with the
two culverts, because of the testimony that those culverts are
under -- you know, they're well in hand already. I just don't want to
make -- I just want to make sure that those two pots of money are
available regardless of the outcome of those two issues.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Let me make sure I understand what
you're saying, because I think I do. You're saying we have -- right
now we have an engineer's estimate to design, permit, and construct
the culverts at $2 million. We'll come up with a real number. And
you want to know that if you elect to use that money for not culverts
but for affordable housing, you'd like whatever that dollar amount
would be to go towards affordable housing?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Correct.
January 10, 2023
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MR. YOVANOVICH: Which I don't think we have an issue
with. Spend the money however you want to spend the money.
Likewise, you're saying if we have to do -- I'm just making up a
number. If we have to do a 6-inch line and it costs a million dollars,
now, because we want to upsize it to serve everybody on the island,
it's 2.2 million, you want to be able to choose whether to spend that
$1.2 million difference on the utility line or however else you want to
spend it.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Correct.
MR. YOVANOVICH: You just want that pot of money. So
we'll -- based upon engineer's estimates of the differences of what we
need for just ourselves --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: It doesn't cost you anything
in addition to what you've already committed --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct, correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- but it does answer the
question or address the question of whether or not the upsizing of the
line is going to occur or whether the county is going to spend the
money for culverts.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct, yeah. That pot of money, yes,
is there for you-all. Those two pots are there, and I guess if you find
a funding source for the culverts somewhere else, take our money and
spend it.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: The use is immaterial to you.
You're going to give us the value, if we approve this project, correct?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Based upon engineer's estimates.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Now, having said that, I want to
bring it back to -- so this is all great discussion, but what we're trying
to decide here is three towers at 122 feet with 80 units now, correct?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Right? So we were -- we were
January 10, 2023
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168 at 108 units, now your new proposal is 122, nine stories instead
of 14, 80 units instead of 108, and then all the other investment that
you talked about.
And, you know, so maybe this will start some -- a little bit of
discussion. Here's the lesson that I think is learned here, and in other
areas of my district it was extremely successful. Regardless of
public stance -- and I'm saying this generically, and it's not to critique
or anything. The lesson learned here it's in the public's best interest
to at least keep the applicant and the applicant to keep the public on
speed dial, okay.
I've given advice quite a bit to citizens and said, you could meet
with the applicant for three hours and offer nothing, promise nothing,
and just listen. I do feel like the citizens got blindsided today, but I
also think if you wouldn't have brought an envelope with a one-liner
saying it's C-3 or nothing, there might have been some dialogue.
And that has no bearing on this decision here.
But a lot of people were frustrated that they sort of didn't know,
you know. I mean, the Planning Commission ended in September.
Commissioner -- or our County Manager, by her own accord, no
influence from anyone, decided to have this meeting in January.
There was a big chunk of time there where a lot of discussion could
have been happening and a lot of negotiation that could have brought
this to us maybe a little bit closer. And maybe some of you disagree,
okay. And I know you always do out there, so -- but I will tell you
in some other communities, they've had unbelievable success by
taking this out of the hands of the Planning Commission and five
commissioners and getting it a lot closer, and then you don't come
here surprised.
The biggest thing that I was surprised with today was not what I
heard but what I didn't hear, and I'm saying this to generate some
discussion. Without question, the largest amount of residents on
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Isles of Capri don't want residential. They don't want 168-foot
towers. They don't want 122. Like they said, we'd rather have, you
know, nothing or the wrong thing. But I didn't hear one person
come to the podium and say, because we really want an
80,000-square-foot shopping mall with restaurants. I didn't hear one
person say that. And I suggested it to a lot of people saying, it's this
or that. We are going to decide if it's going to be zoned residential
or commercial.
And maybe this is where we bring back Mr. Bosi, because
you've changed quite a bit, and not because you've just flip-flopped,
but there's been a big change here. The argument, culverts are great,
sewer line, great, affordable housing's great, but I sure hope we're not
going to make a decision -- if those things weren't there, then we
would shoot this whole thing down, and if those things are there, this
is a slam dunk. Those are part of negotiation that citizens could
have made with the applicant, we're here making with the applicant.
Planning Commission could have made this discussion with the
applicant.
But I'd like to come back to the decision that is before us right
here, which is, on that piece of property, what is the most
advantageous thing? Some sort of residential, which has been
reduced greatly, or C-3 commercial, mixed-use, restaurant, you
know, shopping that we would have to very little control over.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Let us go back to the drawing
board.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: See if I've got anybody lit up here.
Mr. Bosi, why don't you come to the podium, if you would,
please.
So let's talk height. So going from 168 feet to 122 -- so
168 feet was, you know, not compatible, not complementary, and
dropping it 40 feet --
January 10, 2023
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COMMISSIONER HALL: Forty-seven.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: -- you know, more or less, and
dropping the density from 108 to 80, with your -- with your
expertise -- and we're here to make a decision based on also county
staff recommendation. I will tell you, those of you that were here,
citizen passion is important, critical, but if you were here when we
talked about Riviera Golf Estates, 1,000 percent of all the citizens
want that golf course watered, but we don't have the ability to force
somebody to water a golf course that they own. Here we have a
handful of decisions, and one of them is going to be made.
Tell us why that the height of 122 feet, which still makes it one
of the highest things on the island, now makes it more compatible to
the county.
MR. BOSI: When you talk about compatibility, it's not just is it
par for par in terms of its height. You look at what -- functionality
of what's being proposed. And what's being proposed is an
alternative to straight commercial zoning. And the intensity and the
impacts upon the infrastructure, the limited infrastructure that's
available within this island, I think that has to be -- that has to be
incorporated withinto the decision making and withinto the
evaluation.
And there's an 80-foot clock tower; 122-foot structures
are -- you know, they're 42 feet higher than that clock tower. So
there isn't an exact one-for-one comparison. But in terms of
compatibility, can they exist together? Do they complement each
other? I feel that they can exist with each other. And the closest
residential unit is 300 -- a football field away. I think that that
softens the impacts from a visual -- from a visual standpoint. But
then you go to the other part. What's the impact upon the
infrastructure? And whenever we have hearings, whenever we have
an audience like this, the number-one issue that always, is always, is
January 10, 2023
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always is Ms. Trinity Scott's transportation. And transportation and
transportation impacts have always been one of the key factors that
determine what's the most appropriate use and what's the impact upon
the citizens.
And always, we have always said, whatever lessens that
transportation impact is what we feel is better from an overall -- an
overall public facilities assessment. And from an overall public
facilities assessment, the reduction to 122, it's not an exact -- it's not
an exact mirror of that 80-foot clock tower. But when you take that,
the closeness in proximity in height, and you couple that with the
reduction within transportation impacts and the benefit that that
provides, I think that you can find that it's complementary and it's
compatible based upon that assessment.
So from an overall standpoint, from my standpoint, from a
planning standpoint, this project compared to a straight commercial
project is beneficial. One, you're giving -- I mean, one, I know it's
only 80 units, but you're adding more critical mass. You're adding
more economies of scale to be able to support some more additional,
whether it be retail, whether it be small-scale retail, or whether it be
an additional restaurant.
I know they said in season you can't get into one of these places.
Great. But if I go down there in July, is that the same -- is that the
same circumstance? So what you have to think about, you have to
think about it from a holistic standpoint as well.
I think from a planning standpoint, from an impact standpoint,
this proposal is less of an impact to the surrounding area. And based
upon that, that's why I arrived and that's why I feel that the reduction
in height, the reduction in density can be found compatible and can
be found complementary to the overall area. And the Planning
Department is supporting the proposal with those reductions.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I don't want to beat a dead horse
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on the food truck park, but you and I went to battle over that. And to
refresh everyone's memory, but correct me if I'm wrong, so the
Hearing Examiner basically had approved it. Because of the
overwhelming -- and, you know, I'm here to just tell citizens, I'm here
to speak the truth. It wasn't 50/50.
The reason why I immediately reached out to the staff and did
something that was very rare, which was get a unanimous vote from
the County Commissioners to overturn the Hearing Examiner's initial
approval, was because of the overwhelming majority of Isles of Capri
citizens that stormed my office with pitchforks and torches. I
mean -- and I don't say that literally but, you know, that's why I was
looking for -- and I don't want to say a loophole, because there was
an option to support the residents of my community who were very
concerned about noise, traffic, outside businesses. I mean, a lot of
the same things that -- we were in this room almost a year ago, I think
it was. Correct me if I've said anything wrong -- was we basically
overturned the Hearing Examiner's decision unanimously here
because of not only Isles of Capri residents who spoke at the podium,
but they actually brought with them people who live around
Celebration Park. And like I always say, do you know who loves
Celebration Park? People who don't live near it.
And, you know, I don't know if you have anything else to, you
know, add, Mr. Bosi. But I'm sitting here struggling with this
decision because a year ago I was fighting and getting details out of
Ms. Scott about traffic and getting details from you and even getting
some strong recommendations, that, wow, you know, the Hearing
Examiner's already decided. You know, Commissioner, you're not
overstepping your bounds, but this really isn't sort of the normal
protocol. But I felt, and my fellow commissioners agreed once they
heard the testimony, that the decisions made for Celebration Park
maybe wouldn't be made again, and we would be maybe doing the
January 10, 2023
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same incorrect thing in a place that is a small community that was
adamant about not opening the front gates to outside folks and
bringing in all that business and whatnot.
And I don't say that to come to some sort of pre-decision here.
But, I mean, it was a year ago here we were fighting because we were
concerned about traffic on Isles of Capri and business and all the
things I just mentioned. Anything that I said there that is incorrect
or --
MR. BOSI: No. And I've said it within my testimony a
number of times. 2001 [sic], it was December. I was in front of the
Board of County Commissioners, decided my -- defended my
administrative decision to allow for an administrative approval for
the food truck park there. And the concerns were based upon
limited -- the limited infrastructure capacity and the impacts from a
transportation standpoint, impact from a noise standpoint, and impact
from an overall community-fit standpoint.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Yeah. I just wanted to -- I was
kind of doing my numbers too, here. And, you know, what they're
proposing at the 122, and from what I understand, that's the top of the
elevator shaft, right? It's like an additional -- that would be the eight
feet to the top of the elevator shaft. So you take that away, they're
only -- now we're looking at a 114-foot building. And that being
said, that puts us about 39, 38 feet above the boathouse which, you
know, from a distance, that shrinks a lot, you know, with the
eyesight. That's because you get further away from an object, it
shrinks, and that's just pretty much how our eyes work.
That's, like, a 93-foot difference than what they were originally
proposing in this whole proposal at the beginning, and that's pretty
substantial, I mean, just looking at layman's terms and what I
calculated here.
January 10, 2023
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So, I mean, this is not going to be an easy decision for any of us
up here, I feel. You know, it's going to come down to, you know,
it's -- and I'm asking hard questions to you guys because I want to
have transparency with the people in the room.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: These are not the only
alternatives.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: But we know something's going
to be built there. And you could go with a mixed-use business
property with retail on the bottom, like you said, offices above, and
that's at 75 feet. So we're not -- we're just -- we're only talking a few
feet difference.
All right. I just wanted to make sure I was looking at that right,
that, you know, now we're looking at about 114 foot from actual roof
edge of the building.
MR. BOSI: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Hall.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I want to go through these notes,
because I'm hungry. At 168 feet, I was vehemently opposed to this
project. Staff wasn't on the same page, the Planning Commission
wasn't on the same page, but that's a different deal. This proposal is
different. And, you know, you said that there's other buildings that
are similar in height, well, there's 25 feet difference between the
tallest one and the proposed towers.
The compatibility issue, Mr. Bosi, I think, has done a fairly
well -- good job of -- you know, that's the edgy part of it. You
know, if you're opposed to the project, it's not compatible. If you're
looking at the project and you want to do it, it's fairly -- it can fit. Is
there a difference? Yes, there is a difference.
There's -- one of the negatives is there's no public service.
There's no, really, direct impact to the public to benefit from
January 10, 2023
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the -- from the project. We've heard that.
I also heard, just keep it C-3 so, basically, that nothing is done.
It's easy to say that. But the truth is something is going to be done
there. And the noise and the traffic and the congestion from a C-3
zoning could be far more obtrusive than a residential zoning with 80
units.
So I'm weighing this stuff out. So the positives I've written
down. The traffic is going to be less. With the C-3 -- the C-3
would be two times to one-and-a-half times more.
Mr. Bosi and staff, they're comfortable with the density.
They're comfortable with the height. And that compatibility issue
is -- you know, Commissioner Kowal, there's -- it's not as obtrusive
as it was in the beginning. So the compatibility issue with me is the
only thing that's keeping me just from being fully on board.
The increase in property value, I don't think there's anybody in
the room that wouldn't say that would -- this project would not
increase their property value. You can say it won't, but the truth is it
will.
There is -- this doesn't weigh on my decision, but a positive is
there is $2.6 million a year in tax revenue that's not there now that
would be over and above a C-3 project.
Out of 850 lots, I've received personally 75 pieces of either mail
or emails in opposition. Fifty-four of them were postcards, 21 of
them were emails. I'm pretty certain that there's some duplicity in
those, but let's just say there's not. So I'll just give it credit for 75.
I think the people in the room did an amazing job with an
argument, and they did, but there's 2,035 people that live there, and
I've heard from 75.
I would love to be selfish and just take the two million for
affordable housing and run, but I think that there's real value to the
community with the culverts and the sewer. And I know it doesn't
January 10, 2023
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feel like that when you're in opposition, but 10 years from now, I
mean, there's savings per home of somewhere just south of 40,000
per home when they have to convert.
And so there's a precedent that they said, well, if you approve
this project, you're setting a precedent. That's an assumption.
That's not true. That's an assumption that's not true.
I would not look at -- I would not look at another project just
because we approved or disapproved another one. If you disapprove
this project, you're not setting a precedent to disapprove the next one.
If you approve this project, you're not setting a precedent to approve
the next one. Each project is its own project.
Those are my thoughts. I want to put them out there publicly,
because we can't talk about this stuff, and this is the time to do it.
So I'm fine with the density. I'm fine with the height. The
project sits on the back part of the commercial island. It
doesn't -- it's not in anybody's direct way. It is going to be
noticeable, and that's what I'm battling with, but I'll yield the mic.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'd just -- I'd like to ask the
applicant just one more quick question for clarification purposes,
because there's been a lot of discussion about public benefit and pros
and cons. Is the commitment of the 5,000 a unit at CO --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- or closing to --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah. I meant to do this earlier. Staff
said they'd rather it be at CO because they can track a CO, and that's
fine.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right, sure. That's fine. So
that's still part -- still part of the transaction. And then everything
that's already been discussed with the reduction in height, reduction
in density, the benefits of the culverts and the extension of the sewer
January 10, 2023
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and the capacity expansion of the sewer are all benefits, and then we
can deliberate on how we get the water or the sewage extension to the
balance of the community.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: At 168 feet, this was a nonstarter
for me.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Me, too.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I kept that close hold to my
chest. Watched the Planning Commission both sessions for a
reason.
The number-one thing that I'm frustrated with in District 1
is -- runs from Airport Road [sic] to Collier Boulevard, and it's
because there's very little cohesion in that stretch, and it's because a
lot of it is zoned C-3, maybe most of it. Mr. Bosi knows more than
I, but he knows all the things that I hate are because it was almost
impossible to stop those things over the years. It wasn't totally
impossible. You know, they said it was impossible to stop the food
truck park, and there were things that could have been done. But,
you know, I'm not here to, you know, re-plow that ground.
But the reality is, I'm very concerned about leaving Isles of
Capri unprotected with a large parcel that's zoned C-3, because I've
seen the damage that having that type of entity in your backyard, the
uncertainty that it brings, and the ability we don't have at this level to
adjust, to attack, to fight it, to adjust it.
So we have an opportunity here not only to negotiate, and so do
the residents as well, but that large parcel sitting C-3 -- I can tell you
right now, I stay very connected in District 1. If your client decides
to keep that property or sell it, it will sell very quickly.
Look around Collier Boulevard. Look around Collier County.
Bulldozers are everywhere immediately. That parcel, the bulldozers
will show up, and you will have no voice in what goes there, little to
no voice. I would say almost no voice of what's going to go there.
January 10, 2023
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And that's my -- that's my -- that's what I'm struggling with, because
I've seen what unprotected C-3 lots have done to major areas of
District 1, and this is a very large parcel.
So it's one thing to not like height. And like Commissioner
Kowal said, it's come down quite a bit. There's been an awful lot of
things talked about here that a lot of us didn't know 24 hours ago.
Citizens might not like it, but part of the process is, if you're not
communicating with the applicant, the applicant charges forward and
then comes here with a bunch of things that sound new, but they're
not that new. But I'm very concerned with a C-3 lot on that small
little community and what will go there for the rest of time.
And, you know, I look to my colleagues who have a lot more
seniority here in Collier County. Am I wrong?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. No, you're not. No,
you're not.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Any other comments by any of the
commissioners?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you want to make a
motion, or do you want me to?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No. Well, we can do two things.
I mean, we've been here a long time. I didn't know if anybody
needed a short break, and then we come back here and we make a
motion, or if you want to press forward.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Let's press forward. We
don't need to take another break, unless the court reporter is suffering.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: No, she's charging.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Do you want me to do it?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And as has been said, it's
a -- this is a difficult decision, and we're here to make a decision on
what's going to be the ultimate use of this piece of property. It's
January 10, 2023
Page 340
given that something's going to happen here, and the choices are
80,000 square feet and the impacts of that or a residential
development that's come down from what it was proposed to what it
is both in density, size, shape, and such, and the public benefit that
comes from the enhancement of the sewer and the culverts and the
affordable housing and those components as well.
So with that, I'm going to make a motion -- approve them both,
A and B, if that's okay. I make a motion to approve them both, A
and B, with the stipulations that we've had discussion. I don't need
to reiterate those. I think we've got enough record to be able to
discern that.
MR. KLATZKOW: I think you better put it on the record. I
mean, we've been here a long time. I mean, I wouldn't want to drop
the ball at the last minute.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll try. Stipulated height,
122 feet; units, 80; affordable housing component of 5,000 a unit at
CO; culverts, the flow culverts, and the enhancement of the sewer
lines to the project to a capacity that's satisfactory to service the
entire island. Does that sum it up?
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I think so. Did we miss anything?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The only thing I would add
is that, again, if for some reason there's not an upsizing of the culvert
or -- of the sewer line or there's not a culvert thing, that --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You're right.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: -- that pot of money will be
determined and will be available for the Affordable Housing Trust
Fund. The odds are pretty good it's going to be -- the money will go
to the culverts and to the sewer line, but just in case it doesn't.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: In the event that those
monies aren't expended in those two items, then that money -- that
additional money will come over to the Affordable Housing Trust
January 10, 2023
Page 341
Fund. I'll add that on the motion as well.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. We have a motion. I'm
going to make a second, and I'm making it to protect Isles of Capri.
And whether you believe it or not, C-3 across your island would be
devastating, much like you felt about the food truck park.
So I have a motion and a second. All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALL: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: It passes unanimously.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Now I'm the one with the --
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, no.
COMMISSIONER HALL: That was a hard one. That was a
hard one.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It's harder when you've got
the --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Public comments.
MS. PATTERSON: Where is he going?
COMMISSIONER HALL: When can we adjourn?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman?
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, we still have a live mic.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, we're not adjourned
yet.
MS. PATTERSON: No, we're not. We're still live.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Oh, I'm sorry. Absolutely, I'm
sorry.
MS. PATTERSON: That's okay.
January 10, 2023
Page 342
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We'll wait till everybody exits the
room or -- we ask people either exit the room or have a seat, and we'll
continue.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Did we say something bad,
Terri?
THE COURT REPORTER: (Shakes head.)
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. Ms. Patterson.
Item #15A
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA BY INDIVIDUALS NOT
ALREADY HEARD DURING PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENTS
IN THE MEETING
MS. PATTERSON: That brings us to Item 15A, which is
public comments on general topics not on the current or future
agenda by individuals not already heard during previous public
comments in the meeting.
MR. MILLER: We have no such comments at this time.
Item #15C
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
MS. PATTERSON: Commissioners, that brings us to
item -- we do not have any staff project updates today. That brings
us to Item 15C, staff and commission general communications.
We'll keep our communications short. We'll provide an update
on some of the positive activities going on at the sports complex at
the next meeting. There's been a lot of good things going on there,
January 10, 2023
Page 343
and Mr. Rodriguez has a list of things which we'll go through at the
next meeting.
Only for your calendars, please, a strategic planning workshop
scheduled potentially for February 22nd. We want to do this
high-level strategy planning in advance of the release of the budget
guidance, so we'll work with your aides to get that on your calendar.
That's the third Tuesday in February.
With that, Dan, do you have anything else?
MR. RODRIGUEZ: No, we're good.
MS. PATTERSON: That's all from us.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. County Attorney, do you
have any closing comments?
MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing, sir. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Okay. I'll just go down the line.
Commissioner Hall, do you have anything?
COMMISSIONER HALL: It was a hard day, but I enjoyed the
process, and still learning, and thank you.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, I have two. And you
brought up a point when we were talking earlier about the proposed
ordinance coming forward for the MSTU. And I don't really have
any interest in going out and whipping up a roomful of people to
support the MSTU, but I have it in my brain that there's about a
thousand people that are -- or property owners that are -- less that are
impacted by it, and I wanted to know if the Board would support a
mailing to those property owners about this ordinance that's being
proposed to remedy the circumstances on our private roads. And I
would like to seek -- when you brought it up, and you were
talking -- when you were talking about it, Mr. Chair, that -- I mean, I
can reach out to a lot of the community and people that are involved
with that, but I was wondering if maybe we ought to do a mailing to
January 10, 2023
Page 344
those impacted people, which would certainly alert them to the
circumstance, and we would have a good cross-section of property
owners to be able to assist us with making our decision.
COMMISSIONER HALL: I'd support it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You know, it's a 50-cent
mailer per, and if that could be supported, I'd like to do that.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Yeah. Any thoughts across the
Board here; Commissioner Saunders?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I was just thinking about the
poor staff person that's going to have to figure out where
those -- where all those properties are. And so --
MR. KLATZKOW: And from a timing point, I've advertised
this for your next meeting. I don't know if you've got time to mail
this out and have staff figure everybody and everybody [sic] else. I
mean, we can continue it, but you will be advertised for your next
meeting, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. It was a thought. I
mean, I'd be -- our Clerk of Courts has the list. She had it in my
office yesterday. So it's -- and I'm not looking for anything fancy.
Here's a copy -- and I sent her a note and haven't got a response. I
know she's gone, but --
MS. PATTERSON: Let us chat with the Clerk and see what
type of list she has, and then if it seems feasible to do the mailing, we
could always continue the ordinance for a meeting if it seems like it's
feasible to send out mailer. So let us talk with the Clerk, and we'll
circle back with the commissioner.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: This is not an emergency.
This is something that I've felt has needed to be done for quite some
time. And if we have to belay [sic] the decision on considering the
one ordinance one extra meeting, I'd be okay with that.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I didn't realize there was a
January 10, 2023
Page 345
list, so that would make it a little bit easier.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. She was whipping
through it yesterday at my office. So I believe that there is a -- we
have a list of property. We know the amount of the assessed values
of the properties and the amount of the money that's generated. So
that information's out there. And if we can do that, I think that
would be a nice way for us to engage the community and have a
discussion from folks that are directly impacted by it. So that's
number one.
Number two, there's a lot of discussion going on with the
potential consolidation of our independent fire districts, and we are a
portion of that emergency services to our community through our
EMS, through our ambulance. And so I would like for a liaison of
this board and our County Manager and/or whoever she particularly
appoints to orchestrate a discussion/meeting and have a discussion
about a potential consolidation.
I'll be the huckleberry if you want me to be the Board liaison to
do that. I assisted in the consolidation of the Big Corkscrew Swamp
Fire Department and the old North Collier Fire Department, so I've
traveled that path.
COMMISSIONER HALL: You got it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. And that's all.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Kowal, anything to
add?
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: I'm just a little disappointed that
I didn't get to hear the rock crushing report today, but...
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We're still in session.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Jaime Cook's back there.
COMMISSIONER KOWAL: Never mind. Listen, we're all
tired, we're hungry, and thank you for kicking this down the road to
January; thanks a lot.
January 10, 2023
Page 346
But this was a good one to cut our teeth on, I think. It was a lot
of, a lot of, a lot of second guessing and thinking and searching our
souls where we're going to go. But I think in the long run it's going
to be better for the community.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Agreed.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'm going to come by
tomorrow morning 7:30, so I wanted to make sure everybody's here.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll be in Immokalee, just so
you know.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No. I just want to thank our
staff. This is, obviously, a late evening, and you might want to sleep
in a little bit. Come in at quarter to 8:00 instead of 8:00 -- or 7:30.
I have nothing to add, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: I just want to thank my colleagues
for your hard work and your tough questions. I'm sure I'm going to
get a thousand emails in the next hour from, you know, citizens who
are going to remind me that in 2024 they're going to burn me at the
stake. But I'm not sitting in this chair for reelection. I think we try
to do what's right for the county. We don't try; we do what's right
for the county.
And sometimes, you know, citizens have very specific views.
Sometimes those views flip-flop very quickly based on what's on the
table, but I feel confident that we negotiated. I would have liked to
have seen maybe some others involved from the community, and
even the Planning Commission maybe negotiated, but we negotiated
down height and density, we got a lot of investment and value for that
community. They might -- you know, like I said, I know I'll catch a
lot of spears here, and I'm a big boy.
But you-all asked the right questions, and I think we all know
that, you know, the lack of oversight we have on a large portion of
January 10, 2023
Page 347
something that's zoned C-3 and what that -- and what would have
gone there, and I think we all know development's exploding.
Somebody would grab that property up in a heartbeat. I can tell you
this applicant right here, he only does residential, and he'd make
money on that thing if he sold it for a song, and that's exactly what
would happen, and those bulldozers would show up immediately.
So even though I know the citizens won't believe it, you know,
our unanimous vote here, I think, spoke volumes.
So thank you for your time and your patience.
And lastly, Terri, I know you've gone longer. You said you've
gone till 11:00 p.m., so we didn't break the record, but, you know,
thank you so much for our fast talking and your fast typing.
Last word, Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. Well, it may not be
the last word, but it just -- I just want to commend my colleagues.
This was a very, very difficult day. You were -- you all stood firm
and did what needed to be done today so -- under an enormous
amount of pressure. So I just want to thank you all. It's a pleasure
and an honor to serve with you.
COMMISSIONER HALL: Good day.
CHAIRMAN LoCASTRO: We're adjourned.
*****
****Commissioner Saunders moved, seconded by Commissioner
LoCastro and carried that the following items under the consent and
summary agendas be approved and/or adopted****
Item #16A1
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO RECOGNIZE CARRY FORWARD
January 10, 2023
Page 348
FOR PROJECTS WITHIN THE TRANSPORTATION
SUPPORTED GAS TAX FUND (313) AND TRANSPORTATION
& CDES CAPITAL FUND (310) IN THE AMOUNT OF $40,081.63
(PROJECTS #60085, #60088, #69333, AND #69336)
Item #16A2
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND
SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE
CONVEYANCE OF A PORTION OF THE POTABLE WATER
FACILITIES AND APPURTENANT UTILITY EASEMENT, FOR
THE CHRIST THE KING CHURCH, PL20220003254
Item #16A3
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER UTILITY
FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE CONVEYANCE OF THE
WATER FACILITIES AND APPURTENANT UTILITY
EASEMENTS, FOR CHRIST THE KING CHURCH OFFSITE
WATERMAIN, PL20220002981
Item #16A4
RESOLUTION 2023-01: A RESOLUTION FOR FINAL
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND
DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF DEL
WEBB NAPLES PARCELS 203-204, APPLICATION NUMBER
PL20150001882, AND DEL WEBB NAPLES PARCEL 204,
APPLICATION NUMBER PL20160001451, AND AUTHORIZE
THE RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE SECURITIES IN THE
January 10, 2023
Page 349
AMOUNT OF $75,589.96 AND $12,368.07, RESPECTIVELY
Item #16A5
RESOLUTION 2023-02: A RESOLUTION FOR FINAL
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADWAY AND
DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS, AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE
PLAT DEDICATIONS, FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF MAPLE
RIDGE AMENITY CENTER AT AVE MARIA, APPLICATION
NUMBER PL20170000724 AND APPLICATION NUMBER
PL20160001559, AND AUTHORIZE THE RELEASE OF THE
MAINTENANCE SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $288,627.77
Item #16A6
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND
SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE
CONVEYANCE OF A PORTION OF THE POTABLE WATER
FACILITIES FOR MOTOR CONDOS AT NAPLES
BOULEVARD, PL20220005629
Item #16A7
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND
SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES AND ACCEPT THE
CONVEYANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND A PORTION
OF THE SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES, AND APPURTENANT
COUNTY UTILITY EASEMENTS, FOR TREE FARM
APARTMENTS, PL20220004818
Item #16A8
January 10, 2023
Page 350
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE POTABLE WATER AND
SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES FOR ULINE, PL20220006207
Item #16A9
FOR RECORDING THE AMENDED FINAL PLAT OF MAPLE
RIDGE AT AVE MARIA PHASE 7B REPLAT, (APPLICATION
NUMBER PL20220003332) APPROVAL OF THE STANDARD
FORM CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT,
AND APPROVAL OF THE PERFORMANCE SECURITY IN THE
TOTAL AMOUNT OF $249,615.49
Item #16A10
THE CLERK OF COURTS TO RELEASE A PERFORMANCE
BOND IN THE AMOUNT OF $25,760 WHICH WAS POSTED AS
A GUARANTEE FOR EXCAVATION PERMIT NUMBER
PL20200002319 FOR WORK ASSOCIATED WITH CITY GATE
COMMERCE PARK PHASE THREE REPLAT NO. 4
Item #16A11
THE CLERK OF COURTS TO RELEASE A PERFORMANCE
BOND IN THE AMOUNT OF $25,000 WHICH WAS POSTED AS
A GUARANTEE FOR EXCAVATION PERMIT NUMBER
PL20220000677 FOR WORK ASSOCIATED WITH BATCH
PLANT REPLACEMENT
Item #16A12
January 10, 2023
Page 351
ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGE ORDER #17 TO AGREEMENT
NO. 11-5626, “ONE HUNDRED (100) YEAR FLOOD
ELEVATIONS FOR FIVE (5) BASINS IN COLLIER COUNTY,”
PROJECT WITH TOMASELLO CONSULTING ENGINEERS,
INC., FOR A ZERO-DOLLAR TIME EXTENSION OF AN
ADDITIONAL 365 DAYS FOR THE COMPLETION OF THE
ONGOING UPDATE OF THE FEDERAL EMERGENCY
MANAGEMENT AGENCY DIGITAL FLOOD INSURANCE
RATE MAP
Item #16A13
THE RELEASE OF FIVE CODE ENFORCEMENT LIENS, WITH
AN ACCRUED VALUE OF $264,229.83 FOR PAYMENT OF
$100,000 IN THE CODE ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS TITLED,
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS V. STEPHEN
SCHESSLER, RELATING TO PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1216
ROSEMARY LANE, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
Item #16C1 – (This item continued from the June 28, 2022, BCC
meeting and further continued from the September 13, 2022, BCC
meeting.)
A SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE MAJOR USER
AGREEMENT FOR DELIVERY AND REUSE OF IRRIGATION
QUALITY ("IQ") WATER WITH THE RIVIERA GOLF
CLUB/LUCKY TWO GOLF, LLC, TO PROVIDE A REVISED
TERMINATION DATE DUE TO FACILITY CLOSURE
Item #16C2
January 10, 2023
Page 352
RESOLUTION 2023-03: A RESOLUTION REMOVING
UNCOLLECTIBLE ACCOUNTS RECEIVABLE AND THEIR
RESPECTIVE BALANCES FROM THE FINANCIAL RECORDS
OF COLLIER COUNTY PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT IN
THE AMOUNT OF $8,539.44 WITHIN WATER-SEWER
DISTRICT OPERATING FUND (408) AND LANDFILL
OPERATING FUND (470)
Item #16C3
ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGE ORDER NO. 1 FOR TIME
EXTENSION AND UTILIZATION OF $125,659.20 OF THE
DESIGN CONTINGENCY UNDER THE PROFESSIONAL
SERVICES AGREEMENT #21-7884 WITH MATERN
PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING, INC., FOR THE NEW
CHILLER PLANT BUILDING K. (PROJECT NO. 50214.1)
Item #16C4
THE TERMINATION AND RELEASE OF A TEMPORARY
CONSTRUCTION EASEMENT ACQUIRED BY THE COUNTY
FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE COUNTY’S PRODUCTION
WELL NO. 10 (SRO 25) IN THE EMINENT DOMAIN CASE
STYLED BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA V. VISION & FAITH, INC., ET
AL., CIRCUIT COURT CASE 05-CA-1275, (PROJECT #70892)
Item #16C5
A PROJECT UPDATE ON THE COLLIER COUNTY SPORTS
COMPLEX BEING BUILT UNDER AGREEMENT NO. 17-7198,
January 10, 2023
Page 353
WITH MANHATTAN CONSTRUCTION (FLORIDA), INC.
(PROJECT #50156)
Item #16C6
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, ACTING IN
THEIR CAPACITY AS TRUSTEE OF THE GAC LAND TRUST,
EXECUTES AN AGREEMENT AND AUTHORIZES A BUDGET
AMENDMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $352,000 TO PROVIDE
THE COLLIER COUNTY EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES
DIVISION FUNDING FOR THE PURCHASE OF AN
AMBULANCE, STRETCHER, AND CARDIAC MONITOR FOR
EMS STATION74 LOCATED AT THE INTERSECTION OF
DESOTO BOULEVARD AND GOLDEN GATE BOULEVARD
Item #16D1
RESOLUTION 2023-04: THE REMOVAL OF UNCOLLECTIBLE
ACCOUNTS RECEIVABLES IN THE AMOUNT OF $53,747.18
FROM THE FINANCIAL RECORDS OF THE LIBRARY
DIVISION IN ACCORDANCE WITH RESOLUTION NO. 2006-
252 AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE THE
ATTACHED RESOLUTION
Item #16D2
AMENDMENT SEVEN TO THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN
ACT CORONAVIRUS STATE AND LOCAL FISCAL
RECOVERY FUND PLAN, APPROVE A REALLOCATION OF
FUNDS, AND AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY MANAGER OR
DESIGNEE TO CONTINUE TO EXECUTE ANY SUB-AWARD
January 10, 2023
Page 354
AGREEMENTS AND PAYMENT REQUESTS NECESSARY TO
DISTRIBUTE REIMBURSEMENT FOR EXPENSES TO
ELIGIBLE PARTIES
Item #16E1
ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT PREPARED BY THE
PROCUREMENT SERVICES DIVISION FOR DISPOSAL OF
PROPERTY AND NOTIFICATION OF REVENUE
Item #16E2
ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT PREPARED BY THE
PROCUREMENT SERVICES DIVISION FOR CONTRACTUAL
MODIFICATIONS REQUIRING BOARD APPROVAL
Item #16E3
ASSUMPTION AGREEMENT ASSIGNING ALL RIGHTS,
DUTIES, BENEFITS, AND OBLIGATIONS FROM
HEALTHCARE IMPACT ASSOCIATES, LLC, TO EQUIFAX
WORKFORCE SOLUTIONS LLC, CONCERNING AGREEMENT
NO. 15-6505, "AFFORDABLE CARE ACT DATA REPORTING
SERVICES."
Item #16F1
MODIFICATIONS TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AGENCY
AND EMS NON-UNION 2023 FISCAL YEAR PAY &
CLASSIFICATION PLANS WHICH CONSIST OF CHANGES
MADE FROM OCTOBER 8, 2022, THROUGH DECEMBER 31,
January 10, 2023
Page 355
2022, AND TO AUTHORIZE AN INCREASE IN DEFERRED
COMPENSATION MATCHING FOR EXECUTIVE
COORDINATORS TO COMMISSIONERS; REGULAR FULL-
AND PART-TIME EMPLOYEES BELOW THE ASSISTANT
COUNTY ATTORNEY LEVEL IN THE COUNTY ATTORNEY’S
OFFICE; AND REGULAR FULL- AND PART-TIME
EMPLOYEES BELOW THE DIVISION DIRECTOR LEVEL IN
THE COUNTY MANAGER’S AGENCY EFFECTIVE JANUARY
1, 2023
Item #16F2
A MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN
COLLIER COUNTY AND THE STATE OF FLORIDA,
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, COLLIER COUNTY HEALTH
DEPARTMENT, FOR MUTUAL PARTICIPATION IN THE
ACQUISITION, MOBILIZATION, AND DISASTER
ASSISTANCE FOR A MOBILE OXYGEN GENERATING
SYSTEM
Item #16F3
RESOLUTION 2023-05: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING GRANTS, DONATIONS,
CONTRIBUTIONS, OR INSURANCE PROCEEDS) TO THE
FY22-23 ADOPTED BUDGET
Item #16G1
RESOLUTION 2023-06: AUTHORIZE THE REMOVAL OF
UNCOLLECTIBLE ACCOUNTS RECEIVABLE IN THE
January 10, 2023
Page 356
AMOUNT OF $2,050.36 FROM THE FINANCIAL RECORDS OF
THE AIRPORT AUTHORITY FUND (495) IN ACCORDANCE
WITH RESOLUTION 2006-252 AND AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR
TO EXECUTE THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION
Item #16J1
THE BOARD DESIGNATE THE CLERK’S WEBSITE AS THE
COUNTY’S OFFICIAL PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE WEBSITE FOR
PURPOSES OF THE NOTICES AND ADVERTISEMENTS
REQUIRED UNDER FLORIDA STATUTE 50.011.
Item #16J2
RECORDED IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS WERE DRAWN
FOR THE PERIODS BETWEEN DECEMBER 1, 2022, AND
DECEMBER 14, 2022, PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE
136.06.
Item #16J3
REQUEST THAT THE BOARD APPROVE AND DETERMINE
VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND
PURCHASING CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF DECEMBER 21,
2022
Item #16J4
January 10, 2023
Page 357
RECORDED IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS WERE DRAWN
FOR THE PERIODS BETWEEN DECEMBER 15, 2022, AND
DECEMBER 28, 2022, PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE
136.06.
Item #16J5
REQUESTED THAT THE BOARD APPROVE AND DETERMINE
VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE FOR INVOICES PAYABLE AND
PURCHASING CARD TRANSACTIONS AS OF JANUARY 3,
2023
Item #16K1
RESOLUTION 2023-07: APPOINTING SAM SAAD, JR TO THE
BAYSHORE/GATEWAY TRIANGLE LOCAL
REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD
Item #16K2
RESOLUTION 2023-08: APPOINTED TWO MEMBERS TO THE
HISTORIC/ARCHAEOLOGICAL PRESERVATION BOARD.
APPOINTING JANICE O’CONNELL W/TERM EXPIRING ON
OCTOBER 1, 2023, AND APPOINTING HENRY “HANK”
SENTOWSKI W/TERM EXPIRING ON OCTOBER 1, 2024
Item #16K3
January 10, 2023
Page 358
RESOLUTION 2023-09: REAPPOINTED FIVE MEMBERS TO
THE OCHOPEE FIRE DISTRICT ADVISORY COMMITTEE.
REAPPOINTING DON LEE BRADKE AND GENEVIEVE “TERI”
O’CONNELL W/TERMS EXPIRING ON DECEMBER 31, 2023,
AND REAPPOINTING ROBERT CRAIG AND LARRY
HOLLOWAY W/TERM EXPIRING ON DECEMBER 31, 2024,
AND REAPPOINTING TIMOTHY MOSHIER
Item #16K4
RESOLUTION 2023-10: APPOINTED A MEMBER TO THE
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION,
REPRESENTING COMMISSION DISTRICT 3 - APPOINTING
CHUCK SCHUMACHER W/TERMS EXPIRING ON OCTOBER
1, 2026
Item #16K5
A STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT
OF $129,000 PLUS $25,468 IN STATUTORY ATTORNEY AND
EXPERTS’ FEES AND COSTS, FOR THE TAKING OF PARCEL
1130FEE REQUIRED FOR THE VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD
EXTENSION PROJECT NO. 60168
Item #16K6
REPORTED TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
IN RESPONSE TO PUBLIC COMMENTS AT THE DECEMBER
13, 2022, REGULAR MEETING REGARDING POTENTIAL
CONDITIONS REQUIRED BY A COVID-19 EXTRA MILE
MIGRANT FARMWORKER GRANT
January 10, 2023
Page 359
Item #17A
RESOLUTION 2023-12: A RESOLUTION APPROVING
AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING CARRY FORWARD,
TRANSFERS, AND SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE) TO THE
FY22-23 ADOPTED BUDGET
*****
January 10, 2023
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:06 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
RICK LoCASTRO, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K:"'KINZEL, CLERK
61, i
:,/
Attest as to Chairman's
signature only! 0,302?
These minutes approvb the Board on as
Y
presented or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI L. LEWIS, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL COURT REPORTER, FPR-C, AND NOTARY
PUBLIC.
Page 360