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Agenda 01/12/2021 Item #2E (BCC-S Minutes 12/15/20)01/12/2021 COLLIER COUNTY Board of County Commissioners Item Number: 2.E Item Summary: December 15, 2020 - BCC/Special Meeting Minutes Meeting Date: 01/12/2021 Prepared by: Title: Executive Secretary to County Manager – County Manager's Office Name: MaryJo Brock 12/28/2020 8:19 AM Submitted by: Title: Executive Secretary to County Manager – County Manager's Office Name: MaryJo Brock 12/28/2020 8:19 AM Approved By: Review: County Manager's Office MaryJo Brock County Manager Review Completed 12/28/2020 8:30 AM Board of County Commissioners MaryJo Brock Meeting Pending 01/12/2021 9:00 AM 2.E Packet Pg. 19 December 15, 2020 Page 1 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS Naples, Florida, December 15, 2020 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 12:00 p.m., in SPECIAL SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Burt L. Saunders Andy Solis William L. McDaniel, Jr. Rick LoCastro Penny Taylor ALSO PRESENT: Leo Ochs, County Manager Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations December 15, 2020 Page 2 MR. OCHS: You have a live mic, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. The meeting of the County Commission will please come to order. We've already done the Pledge once today. I think that's probably sufficien t. MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We'll move on to the main objectives here, Mr. Ochs. Item #2A EVALUATING QUOTATIONS FROM QUALIFIED EXECUTIVE SEARCH FIRMS AND FINALIZE THE PROCESS TO BE USED TO RECRUIT CANDIDATES TO FILL THE FORTHCOMING COUNTY MANAGER VACANCY – MOTION TO APPROVE OPTION #2 AND ALLOWING THE POSITION TO BE OPEN FOR 30 TO NO LONGER THAN 60 DAYS WITH A REVIEW AT THE FIRST MEETING IN FEBRUARY, 2021; TWO COMMISSIONERS TO SERVE ON A SUBCOMMITTEE FOR THE REVIEW OF APPLICANTS WITH STAFF – APPROVED MR. OCHS: Yes. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, the Board had called this special meeting to cover two items that are listed on your index. The first is a recommendation for the Board to evaluate quotations from qualified executive search firms and finalize a process to recruit candidates to fill the forthcoming County Manager vacancy. And Ms. Leiberg has assembled some information and is prepared to make a brief report. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Good afternoon. MS. LEIBERG: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Amy Leiberg, Human Resources Director. December 15, 2020 Page 3 At your meeting last week, you directed us to take a couple of steps to talk about the County Manager recruitment strategy, and so I'm going to give you a little bit update on that. I will -- I'll touch again upon the different steps that we will need to follow in this recruitment process, and then I'm going to have a summary of the firms that provided quotes to you for evaluation this afternoon. And we're going to see if this is going to work. MR. OCHS: Arrow down. MS. LEIBERG: Arrow down. Very good. Thank you. So, after the meeting last week, we released the new job announcement for the County Manager on governmentjobs.com, on indeed.com, through Zip Recruiter, and on LinkedIn, and we also went out to request quotes from interested executive recruitment firms. That information came back to us yesterday, and I'm going to provide a summary for you here shortly. You do have some key decision points that, as a Board, you need to make on this recruitment. You've got some options on the strategy that you will use to fill the County Manager vacancy whether that be to hire a firm, use internal resources, or the Board conducts the recruitment. And then also your involvement during the recruitment and selection process, whether all of you participate, whether you're going to select a subcommittee, or the chair or other designated commissioner will lead the recruitment process. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: May I ask her a question. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. Commissioner Taylor. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Just because -- that's what I'm confused about. Why would we get involved in this? For what -- more importantly, what function would the BCC undertake in this process? MR. OCHS: Commissioner, if you give her two more slides, December 15, 2020 Page 4 she's probably going to answer that for you. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay, good. That was a question from before, so thank you. MR. OCHS: You're welcome. MS. LEIBERG: So, the recruitment steps include -- and talked about this the last time -- that we would start with a needs assessment and information gathering. So that would either come through individual discussions with the Board members one on one, you would complete a questionnaire, or we, either the staff or recruitment firm, could facilitate a workshop to gather that information, and the action item out of that would be that you would approve a final profile document. That would be what we would put out to interested candidates that would tell them what you are looking for in that ideal candidate. The next step would be to start the recruitment, and that's -- I think that's what your question was, Commissioner, and I'll answer that. The recruitment would actually be over a period, we're hoping, to meet a deadline of June the 1st of about a 12-week window to get that recruitment done. The position would be posted for four to six weeks. Applicant reviews would take two to three weeks. I will make note that, you know, if a firm does that, it's going to take a little less time; that if that's designated to staff depending on the number of applicants that we might get for this opening. And you could develop a candidate list of up to the t op 25. And that's where you would come into that process. We would bring back that information, whether that be the recruitment firm or your internal staff who are handling that, to take a look at those candidates and narrow it down to 10 to 12 of what we -- based on your initial assessment of what you're looking for in a candidate to 10 to 12 for a closer review. The next step after that would be, again, to take that candidate December 15, 2020 Page 5 review. So, what would we do at that point or what would the firm do at that point? Additional information would be gathered about each of the candidates. There would be some interviews conducted of those 10 to 12 candidates that you would be under -- that would be under consideration. And some decisions will need to be made as well about who would conduct that interview if it's not going to be a firm doing that for you. Also, with the Internet and background searches, there would be limited searches that we could do with our processes internally. A firm could probably give you much more comprehensive review of somebody's background as part of their process. And from that, your action item would be to determine two to four candidates for in-person interviews, and that would be a decision point you would need to make as well. The last step in this process -- and, again, this is very simplified. But, you know, there's reference checking, interviewing, and selection. So, after those reference checks are completed and conducted and in-person interviews are completed, you're going to deliberate and select the next county manager from the finalists and authorize negotiation and a contract development. The goal is still to have that done by the first meeting in May of 2021 to bring back that candidate for you. So, we have posted that job. We have put that out to interested candidates through the vehicles that we shared with you just a few minutes ago. Okay. We also got information back from three search firms that are interested in providing these services to the county. This next slide will kind of give you an overview of what that is. We took a look at them from different aspects: The number of recruitments that they have conducted at the executive level for an organization between 2015 and 2020; the number that they're conducted in Florida in that period of time; what their timeline was. December 15, 2020 Page 6 Could they meet our requirements to conduct the recruitment in the period that we're looking to have it completed? How many visits based on their -- based on their submission that we would be looking at, that they would come back and meet with you? Do they have experience and have we worked with them before in the Board -- with the Board of County Commissioners agency? Do they have a Florida office? And for the warranty item, you know, a lot of them will give you -- if something happens to your candidate, if they come on and they leave within a certain period of time, would they come back and help you recruit again for a candidate? And all three of them do. What the price is for the services that they have quoted that we put out in the request for quotes that's part of the backup that you have in your agenda today? And do we have -- would there be any additional fees for their services? All three of the firms, we actually reached out to them. If you have any questions about the services they provide, they are standing by on Zoom this morning if you would like to answer -- to ask them any questions about what they might do through this process. We do have a recommendation based on our review. And if -- I can move on to that slide if you'd like, or I can pause here, and you can ask any questions about information that we've gathered. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Anybody have any questions? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If not, let's move on to your recommendations. MS. LEIBERG: Very good. We did look at all of the firms. We would recommend, in order, Colin Baenziger & Associates and The Mercer Group and then Strategic Government Resources. December 15, 2020 Page 7 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Klatzkow, I think I asked you the wrong question at the last meeting. I asked if the resumés received by a search firm would be public records, and you advised that they would be public records. The question I should have asked is, these search firms have files already on hand of interested people who they would reach out to. My assumption is that those files would not be public records; they would not be a public record until there was a solicitation from someone directly to Collier County or to that search firm in response to our request for that; is that accurate? MR. KLATZKOW: That's correct, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's the point I was trying to make before with the search firm. They do have a group of resumés that they can search and source without it becoming a big public issue for those people at that point. Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Amy, I just was going to ask you, do you know if either of these three -- if any of these three search firms were involved in the city manager sear ch at Marco Island? MS. LEIBERG: I believe that Baenziger & Associates, if I'm not mistaken. And I'll look to my -- actually, I think that was -- Mercer Group was involved with the City of Marco, and Baenziger was involved with the City of Naples. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Oh, okay. MS. LEIBERG: I misspoke. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you would restate your recommendation, and then we'll see what the -- Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I do have a question. How many applications have we received so far? December 15, 2020 Page 8 MS. LEIBERG: We've received resumés from five interested individuals. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Internal, right? Just strictly internal or not necessarily? MS. LEIBERG: They are not -- they are not -- they are -- this went out nationally, so it really is from across the country. (Simultaneous crosstalk.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So, what we need to decide today is, number one, are we going to use a search firm, which I think we sort of decided that and, number two, which firm would that be? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, we didn't. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, you wanted to. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: You decided. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I thought that we were all kind of leaning in that direction. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, then we're -- Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And just for the record, so everybody knows, I went ahead of Commissioner Taylor because I knew she was going to -- I saw her reaching, so I just jumped. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: He did. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I haven't come off of my opinion from last week and from before. I see there's -- there's value in having a recruiting firm, but I don't think we -- I don't think we need to do it. I would prefer that we continue on the path that we did, allow the position to be open for 30, no longer than 60 days, review at the 45-day mark. I would suggest that a subcommittee of two of December 15, 2020 Page 9 this board -- whatever's legal, County Attorney, do it. I have a lot of experience in this process, in my private life on the board of directors of Goodwill hired two different executive directors, and similarly at the Housing Authority, at the bank as well. It is not an easy job by any stretch of the imagination. I think we have qualified staff that can take care of the background checks, the reference checks, and do some of the what I consider administrative things to make sure that applicants have affirmed what they've represented, or we can reaffirm what they've, in fact, represented. But I think if we did that for a 30 to -- 30 to no longer than 60, that takes us to our first meeting in February, we still then have an opportunity to engage a national firm. We wouldn't disway [sic] them from offering us a candidate and/or -- and paying them a fee along that line. Everybody knows that -- not everybody, but there's a -- the information is out. So, I would -- I would suggest we stay on that path. If we haven't gotten -- well, I mean, we've only been open for a week, and we have five applicants now. And if we haven't gotten somebody we think we can warm up to, to move into that weeding-down process, as you've shared, then we could actually look at hiring a firm. I would be willing to volunteer Commissioner Saunders to serve as one of the two. And I'm joking, Mr. Chair. I mean, if you would -- personally, I would be certainly willing to devote the time necessary to go through the processes and stay on that timeline that you talked about and the weeding, if you will, of the applicants and such. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. Let's go ahead and do this. I'll reduce the number of commissioners that would be interested in serving that way. I will not serve on that type of committee, so we're down to four. Why don't you go ahead -- we've got two other speakers. Why don't you go ahead and make a motion. Let 's see if December 15, 2020 Page 10 that flies and, if not, then we'll open it up. Is that okay with -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'll try to surmise then. I'd like to make a motion that we not engage a firm, whichever one of these options, I think it's No. 2, Point No. 2, is that the -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- in the executive summary? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's correct. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We all are going to participate in this process whether we like it or not -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- at some point and stage, and that we open the position up for 30 no longer than 60, review it at our second meeting in January to the aggregate -- the total -- I don't want to get too off into the weeds, but I just -- I'm not -- I would -- and I would suggest that we select a subcommittee of the Board to go through the applications working with staff to fulfill those requisites. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. There is a motion. Is there a second? COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Second. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and second to basically go with Option No. 1. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Two. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry. Option No. 2. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Point No. 2, Options A, B, C. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. Commissioner Taylor. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes. May I suggest that we just modify a little bit, because I will support your motion. But I would like to have this window which you said of maybe -- and maybe you said this, but I don't know. So, we do it ourselves for a set period of time. If we cannot find a qualified candidate at that time, then we go to a recruitment firm? December 15, 2020 Page 11 COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, ma'am. And I don't know if I actually -- I said that in my front-end -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- thing, but I don't know if it was part of the motion. My motion in my brain was 30, minimum 30, no longer than 60, with a review period at the 45-day mark. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And so, we're looking at -- we're looking at February 1st. That's kind of the -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Review in our second meeting -- or first meeting in February, yes. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay. Okay. Good. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And the second accepts that clarification? COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And would the subcommittee -- because I've been through this in the City Council with -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: -- searching twice now, three times. Would this subcommittee do the first cull of the appointment of the resumés, or would they recommend and then bring everything to us so that we can make a decision? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think -- that needs to be done. There's no culling by the subcommittee. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay, good. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: The subcommittee just goes through, works with staff to verify that the applications that submit -- are submitted, and then we bring back for -- if you want to call it a culling -- that's a little bit abrupt -- for the review and the conciseness of the process. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I just want to raise a couple issues December 15, 2020 Page 12 that I think are problematic. One is that -- well, we want to get -- we want to find the best candidate, obviously, for the job. And I think that trying to do this ourselves puts our staff in a -- in an awkward position. And in order to come up with the candidate which has been vetted completely -- because as I understood it, there's limitations on the kind of background research and things that our staff can actually do for us. I just -- you know, I think we'd probably end up with the same -- the same hire, but I think the process would be more transparent and more, I want to say -- I don't want to say sterile, but just -- I think if -- the more involvement we have from the very beginning, the more -- the more room there is for putting staff in a difficult position. I mean, we know we're going to have applicants from within. We know we're going to get applicants from without. I just think that having a third party vet them, then the commissioners, we do our interviews and we hire somebody. It's just -- it's a cleaner, more sterile way and doesn't put our staff in an awkward position. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I'm going to call for the vote in just one quick second. I do want to make a comment on it. I think it's a mistake to go this route. I do believe that a professional firm can vet candidates, many of which would be able to be vetted before they even become of public record. I think when you ask people from around the country to submit resumés that a commissioner and some group will be evaluating, I don't think you're going to get the really qualified candidates that you could get if they have some anonymity when they make those -- file those applications. So, I'm going to vote against the motion. It looks like it will pass 3-2, but I just want to go on record saying that I believe it's a mistake. All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye. December 15, 2020 Page 13 COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed. Aye. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes 3-2. Thank you. MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, that takes us to the second item on today's agenda. This is a recommendation for the Board to provide staff direction on a date, time, and location for holding the public hearings related to the upcoming One Naples Growth Management Plan small-scale amendment application and their companion rezone petition. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel, are you -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, I lit up before he went to Item B. MR. OCHS: Oh, I'm so sorry. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: A portion of Point No. 2 was all of the Board participate during the regular meeting dates in the workshop format; the Board elect a subcommittee. We could do that today. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: We need to do it today. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And we should do it today. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: That's right. MR. OCHS: Amy. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And that subcommittee -- and then the Chair or the designated commissioner leads the recruitment with reports and how we're going to -- and just go through that process before we jump and go away. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: How many people do you need on December 15, 2020 Page 14 that subcommittee of commissioners; is that two or three? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think it should minimumly be two, and that keeps the sterility in line, so -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, we had three people that voted for the motion, so I would suspect that two of those three should be on that committee, because I'm not going to serve on it. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So -- but we have Sunshine issues; is that correct, sir? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You don't have Sunshine issues. It's in the Sunshine. There's no issue. MR. KLATZKOW: The purpose of the committee is to review and vet applicants and to eliminate any applications and, yes, you must be in the Sunshine. I don't know what else -- other purpose the committee would have. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So, I'll make a motion that Commissioner McDaniel and Commissioner LoCastro be on that committee. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'd agree to it, to that responsibility, absolutely. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm fine with it. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I'll second that. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Just a quick question. Okay. So, if the committee's not going to be making decisions, then I'm still not clear on what the committee's going to do. The committee's not going to reduce the number of applications and bring applications forward? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It just -- it's just a review process to go through to make sure -- working with -- in my opinion, the rationale, and when I've done this in the past, is we work with our December 15, 2020 Page 15 staff to ensure that the representations of the applicants are -- are fulfillable with what they have, in fact, done; that the references are -- and those are jobs that staff can do, calling refere nces and verifying -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Verifying. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- verifying the information that's on the applicant is there, and then we come back with a brief report and go through -- COMMISSIONER SOLIS: On each one, not -- so let's just -- I'm just saying -- let me ask the question. So, let's say that you're vetting -- the committee is vetting an application, something's not actually correct on the application, then what's the committee's going to do? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Note that, bring it back to the Board -- COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: -- and the Board will make decisions along those line. Just -- again, it's -- necessarily, it's just a process to move through this on the front end, not excluding the recruitment avenue if, in fact, we, the Board, decide that that's a path we need to travel. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I think one of the things, too, we could also decide that might show itself early is, wow, we're really not getting the quality candidates, so w e want to move quicker to the professional, you know, headhunter service or what have you, recruiting service, or, wow, we're getting overwhelmed with incredible candidates internal and external through, you know, our normal vetting process. Maybe we need help to vet, but we're making more of a judgment call. But we're not vetting candidates. We're sort of quality controlling what's coming in and then reporting back to the committee [sic] saying, wow, we've got a handful of -- you know, more than a handful of candidates here or, December 15, 2020 Page 16 wow, we need to move a little bit quicker to the recruiting service. They're just trickling in, and it's not what we're looking for. You know, just that as a recommendation, you know. Not that we're being directive. But I think that, you know, Commissioner McDaniel and I can certainly at least come back with some judgment calls on some things. MS. LEIBERG: Commissioner, the next step would be, as we talked about earlier, we'd have to do a needs assessment and information gathering from you. So, we have -- since you've chosen your course of action, we're going to need for you-all to complete questionnaires that would tell us some key attributes and expectations of your next county manager. We will get that questionnaire and get it to all of you. We would ask -- you know, we would probably set a deadline for that so we have it. That would allow us to do our initial vetting since you're having staff do that for you before we bring it back to the subcommittee. That way, you know, once we understand what the expectation is of the individual you wish to fill this role, then at least we can apply that to any of the applicants or the resumés that we've received and bring you back what we believe to be qualified individuals for evaluation. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I'm going to ask the County Attorney just to give us a little bit of advice because we do have a new member and you're not necessarily used to dealing with public records law and the Sunshine law. You're now going to be on a committee of two, which is going to be very, very visible. You're going to get a lot of scrutiny from that. Mr. Klatzkow, in terms of public records, text messages, emails, can you give us a quick synopsis of what would be considered a public record if there's any text messages and that sort of thing dealing with any type of an issue like this. December 15, 2020 Page 17 MR. KLATZKOW: My recommendation is that this committee meets in the Sunshine; that all documents involving that matter will be public records. Text messaging, since it is transient, doesn't really fall under that, but I would caution that -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me ask you -- let me ask you a question on that, because I disagree with you. There was a conviction in Orlando of commissioners that were texting. MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. What I would caution is, you don't use text messages as a subterfuge to get around the Sunshine Laws or the public records laws, all right, which is what they were doing there. You would use email. And I've always said, use email, whenever you can, in your county email. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I only mention that just for you to be careful, because -- COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I'd like to excuse myself from the committee. No, just kidding. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just beware. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I think it would maybe be prudent, too, if maybe, you know, you spoke with Commissioner McDaniel and I just before we started the process just to maybe review any type of, you know, things just to make sure that we get off to a clean legal start, if there's anything specific that, you know -- so we're not sort of going on our own. MR. KLATZKOW: I would let staff handle the particulars of this and then bring all documents, whatever, to this subcommittee. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Yeah. MR. KLATZKOW: Let staff do the laboring or [sic] on this. On the subcommittee will be the decision makers. But do meet in the Sunshine. You don't have to meet in the room. I mean, we have plenty of conference rooms, and they'll be noticed, and staff will December 15, 2020 Page 18 bring forward the information that they're gathering for your review. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you, sir. MS. LEIBERG: And that would be my clarifying question to the Commission as well. Would you like for us to make an initial evaluation, or shall we plan to bring -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Bring them all. MS. LEIBERG: Bring them all. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Excuse me. Bring them all. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: But give us your ETA on what our -- what we -- the list. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I've got a light over here. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry. Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Recommendations. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And this may answer your thought. The sooner you get the questionnaire to us for what our expectations are, the sooner we can get through the process of -- culling process for the Board, and I think that's imperative for us to be getting that information to staff. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Right. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Then we go through this -- we go through the verification process and come back to the Board. The sooner that questionnaire's effectuated and you know what the expectations of this board are, then we can give better direction going forward. So that was a comment that I wanted to make. And I do have a secondary comment with regard to texting and that sort of thing. We really can't control when people text us personally with regard to government issues. We can control ourselves in response to government issues by text, and just don't do it. December 15, 2020 Page 19 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, I think if -- the point is, I think if you receive a text in reference to the selection of a county manager and the committee you're serving on, that becomes a public record whether you solicited that text or not, and you have to keep it. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, the County Attorney and I disagree on that, but there was a conviction in Orlando -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Can I share with you -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- dealing with people deleting text messages, and I just wanted to caution you on that. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: When I do get a text from somebody on a government matter, I forward it over to my email, and it becomes a matter of public record. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And when people ask for it, it gets submitted, and off we go. That's how I manage -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's fine. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I can't control people sending me things, and so when that, in fact, transpires, I move it over to email, and it's out. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Just a caution. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So, when will we get the questionnaires? MS. LEIBERG: Commissioner, we will work on a questionnaire to provide to you. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: How about 4:00 this afternoon? MS. LEIBERG: I think we might need a little more time than that, sir. I think by close of business tomorrow. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Can I just -- in that regard, that was December 15, 2020 Page 20 what my light was on about. In my opinion, the evaluation that the County Manager fills out every year is a very detailed one, and I think whatever you need in terms of selection criteria is in there; just to try to help expedite the process. I mean, at least -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Absolutely. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: -- that's what we've been evaluating the County Manager on for -- as long as I've been here, and I think that's -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Job description, what the Board feels like. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Yeah. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I concur 100 percent. That will help you develop that questionnaire from us. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I should have asked this earlier: Do we have any registered speakers on this item? MR. MILLER: I do not, sir. Item #2B PROVIDING DIRECTION ON A DATE, TIME AND LOCATION FOR HOLDING A PUBLIC HEARING REGARDING THE UPCOMING ONE NAPLES SMALL SCALE GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN AMENDMENT APPLICATION AND COMPANION REZONE PETITION - MOTION THAT THE BOARDROOM BE THE LOCATION FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING – APPROVED; MOTION THAT THE MEETINGS BE HELD MARCH 1ST, 2021 AND MARCH 2ND, 2021 AS AN ADDITIONAL DATE IF NEEDED – APPROVED CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Then let's move onto Item 2B, which is the date and time and location for a hearing on the December 15, 2020 Page 21 One Naples project. Commissioner Taylor. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I just -- point of clarification. At our last meeting I talked about the church area at St. Johns on 110t h. The concept would not be to have the meeting in the church. The concept would be, there's a fairly large hall that the meeting could be held in, and there is a church which is covered, in air conditioning, which could be good for speakers who, because of social distancing, can't get in the room. And it's my understanding that some of the leadership, the leadership up there, would prefer to have the 110th Avenue North location, so -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner Solis. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I think there's several concerns that I have. And as a policy, it makes me uneasy that we're going to get in the realm of changing what our procedures are for zoning hearings on the fly. And so what's the criteria going to be for the next zoning hearing when those people involved in the next one want it somewhere other than where every single zoning hearing in the past has ever been held? I mean, I just thi nk we're -- we're going to open a can of worms, I think, that we may not be able to recover from. And I say that because -- and now, having a set date that will only cover the One Naples application, I think, is a great idea. I think it will take a whole day anyway and having a set time where everybody can speak is a great idea. And I would support that. And I'm going to look towards the County Attorney. I mean, I'm concerned about changing the process and how the hearings are handled, because we haven't ever done that in the past that I'm aware of, and I think that just gets us out of the usual process that's established by our ordinances and has been the practice for the county as long as I've December 15, 2020 Page 22 been here. MR. KLATZKOW: I think the problem right now is we're living in COVID-19 world. Pre-COVID world we would have the room filled with the people, and that would be the end of it. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Overflows. MR. KLATZKOW: And with the overflows. In COVID world, we can't do that. We have to socially distance. If it's the will of the Board to try to get as many people in the same room as possible, you'll need a bigger -- you'll just need a bigger room. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Right. MR. KLATZKOW: Post-COVID world you won't have these concerns. So -- that I think these are very unique and unusual times, and I don't think it would set any precedent one way or the other. I think it comes down to the security of having it here on the comfort for everybody having it here as opposed to whether or not you want everybody in the same room, and you'll need a very, very large room for that. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Well -- and my second concern is that if we do it at a noncounty facility, we will be able to hold maybe more people than we can hold in this room, but what about the people that still are not going to feel comfortable attending because of COVID and want to call in? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: They'll be able to. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: We're going to have the technology for that at a church that -- MR. OCHS: I don't know that we've evaluated the church. We've evaluated three locations that the Board mentioned last week. And Commissioner Taylor's absolutely correct; she mentioned the church as a potential for it. I didn't think that there was consensus at that time among the Board to pursue that one as an option. December 15, 2020 Page 23 But we looked at our capabilities on this campus, we looked at the North Collier Regional Park exhibit hall and overflow in the gymnasium there as a potential, and then the school district's meeting room and whatever overflow capacity they've had. Just based on those three preliminary analyses, we are recommending this facility. We've got four overflow rooms plus the boardroom. We know our technology. We know that we can handle the Zoom calls, and we could even Zoom people's comments from the overflow rooms directly into the Board, and you can interact with them visually and audibly if you'd like or if they would like. So as the County Attorney said -- plus we have security in place here and Sheriff's deputies. But we can handle any of those three. We're most comfortable, because we know our processes and our capabilities from a technology standpoint, in this facility better than we do anywhere else. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's -- I know a couple lights are lit up. I agree with Commissioner Solis. Let's just see if there's support to move it out of this room first. Let's see if there's a motion. The motion would be either we have the hearing here or we have it someplace else. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: May I speak to that before we vote? And I would say that it is one thing to have someone's voice on a telephone in this room. And we've done it now since March. And it's another thing to have the person in front of us. And I think, what I'm understanding, there are 20,000 people that have participat ed in this issue over the last two to three years, different people, and they need to be heard. And I think we -- we, as a government, need to -- owe them the respect of the opportunity to speak before us. And so, I would -- in that light, I would not support it being in this room with them in -- you know, like sardines in all the other rooms. I would December 15, 2020 Page 24 rather have it in an area that could accommodate it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We should have it over in Miami at the football stadium. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I was going to say, Teco or Hertz, or whatever. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's just see if there's a desire to have it someplace else, because then we can figure out where that is. I'm going to make a motion to hold the meeting here. In terms of date and time, we can figure that out next, but let's just see whether we want to move the meeting to someplace else. So, I'll make the motion to have the One Naples hearing in the county commission chambers. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Second. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and a second. I'll call for the question. All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Opposed. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Opposed. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. That passes, I believe, 3-2. So, we're going to have the meeting here. Next question is when. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: What week? Schedule. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It's going to be a six- or seven-hour meeting. It's -- we're not going to be dealing with it for two or three days at a time. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm making a joke. I'm sorry. December 15, 2020 Page 25 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, that's all right. And levity is really appreciated right now. But I think we can assume this is going to be somewhere between a six- and seven-, maybe an eight-hour meeting. I talked to the manager this morning about the possibility of the second Tuesday -- or second -- our second meeting in February having nothing on that agenda other than consent-agenda items and then scheduling this for 10 a.m. on that Tuesday with nothing else, and that will take us until 6:00 p.m. or 7:00 p.m. if we need to. Just a thought to get the discussion going. Commissioner Solis. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: That would be acceptable to me, and even if it ran over to the 24th, that's fine. Just for dates -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Make sure you're looking at the right year. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: What do you mean running over -- oh, the next day. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: The next day if it requires that, right. No, that's a good point. Looking at the right year. My only concern is that I would have a conflict with the week of the 15th of March. So as long as we stay away from that week then, you know, I'm -- with whatever the consensus of the Board is as to when to have it. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: How many people can we hold in here with social distancing? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Lights are -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I'm sorry. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I -- you know, we have a habit of -- and not a habit. And I don't mean this in a negative manner by any stretch, but we have a tendency to jam the 20-pound load in a 10-pound bag, and my concern is having it on one of our stated December 15, 2020 Page 26 communication dates takes away from other business that's transacting on a regular -- on regular business. I was looking at my calendar, and, you know, March actually has five Tuesdays. And the second -- the first Tuesday is -- I would be more in favor of having the meeting on a non-regular board meeting and just dedicate that time for that on a Tuesday. And that -- and that first Tuesday in March is March the 2nd. I wasn't hardly listening when you said you had a conflict. Did I pick the week you have an issue? COMMISSIONER SOLIS: No, that's the second -- COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My thoughts were to have a special meeting for that, for that item and no other business to transact, and allow our -- allow our normal meetings to be dedicated to the operation of the county and our normal business. So that would -- and that's just one date I threw out. I was looking at that date. You know, I didn't really look -- and January and February both have a regular four Tuesdays, and March is the first one, and we get an extra week during that time in between our regular ly slated meetings. So that was my thoughts. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner LoCastro. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: I just want a clarification. So, Commissioner McDaniel, you voted to have it here. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I did. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: All's I would just echo is that maybe we put some thought into the best way to work the logistics. I mean, everybody sort of remembers the Petland fiasco. I think if we've got people in waiting rooms, maybe when somebody speaks here, then they exit, and we backfill their seat, because I definitely strongly agree with Commissioner Taylor that there's no substitute for face to face, and when people are sweating up on the top floor waiting their turn, they don't really know where they are in the queue, December 15, 2020 Page 27 then they hear [sic] and they're in the queue. You know, so maybe we can't, you know -- if we're going to, you know, put 10 pounds of activity in a five-pound bag here, maybe we could at least figure out the best use of the bag and how to have people feel like the y're being revolved through, or whatever works. But that we don 't just sort of do the standard technique for this many people, because it's going to be a big one, and we want citizens to feel like they're heard. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I have no problem with March 2nd. I do have a conflict on March 3rd, so... COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Well, that's not good. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, Commissioner Taylor will be the chair, so... COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah. You guys are making decisions -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: They need four -- (Simultaneous crosstalk.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It's a supermajority vote, so we all have to be here for that. I'm just saying, I can be here from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. on the 2nd, but I cannot be here until the -- I could be here in the afternoon on the 3rd, but not during the day -- during the morning. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We actually could even move it to a Monday just to forestall the potential of you not being able to be here. Monday, May [sic] the 1st is there. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: March 1st. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Excuse me. Not May. March 1st. And I occur with Commissioner LoCastro with regard to amending our process. I concur with Commissioner Taylor with the fact that there is no substitute for personal attendance at our meetings but, as our County Attorney has said, these are different times and, December 15, 2020 Page 28 unfortunately, we're not going to be able to pack the room with red shirts and do the things in that Petland adventure that we had a couple of years ago when I was chair. But I think if we enhance our process, I think the County Manager has shared that we can actually even set up Zoom so we can see people's faces while they're in our overflow rooms, that sort of stuff, and maybe go through some trial processes with uninitiated folks who haven't necessarily been to our meetin g, moving them through the system and do some practice runs. I think we can facilitate as much of the personal touches as is necessary. Because I like the idea. I mean, I'm saddened by the fact that we still can't all get together and do what we always did before, but at the end of the day, there is an issue amongst us, and we ha ve to tend to that and to the personal protection of our population, so... So I think even after the virus is over or not, as the case may be, we still are going to have to be able to tend to the personal wishes of the protection of the individual who doesn't want to even take a chance after the vaccine's out and everything's there, so... CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And I will agree with Commissioner LoCastro and Commissioner Taylor that we need to do what we can to make sure that everybody's heard, and I agree with that. I would also point out that since we've been doing things with Zoom, at least my experience with doing town halls, the number of people that have been involved in these things has gone up exponentially. I mean, I can't even believe -- I think I had a -- I had a town hall I did for the Palm River folks that were here last week, and 110, 120 people -- I was expecting, you know, 40 or 50 at the most. So, I mean, I understand the concern and the desire to mak e sure everybody's heard, and I have that same desire. I think we can accomplish that using the same process that we've always used for these matters without having to change the rules. December 15, 2020 Page 29 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: What we -- we made a decision without understanding numbers. What -- the social distancing, how many people can this chamber hold and the four overflow rooms in this building? MR. OCHS: About 130, I'm told. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And if we have 350 people that want to speak? MR. OCHS: We have to find other places to put them. Shuttle them. The school district, believe it or not, tells me with their overflow, they have people stay in their cars, and when it's their -- and give them a number. When it's their turn, they flash the number out in the parking area, and the people come in and speak. We will do our level best, and if we can set up an area where people are willing to give their comments via Zoom, even if they're in an overflow room, we could do that at the church for convenience sake. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No. I just think there's no substitute for someone coming in speaking at a podium not Zoom. MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am. I understand. I'm not arguing with you. We're just trying to make it work the best we can under the circumstances. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And I think, Commissioner Solis, with your concerns about precedent, years ago, I think it was in the '80s, a little issue called Sabal Bay raised its head in the City of Naples, and they were in a small chambers, and they held that council meeting at the high school auditorium. It is the first a nd last time pre-COVID that the City Council has had a meeting in the high school auditorium. So, I don't think it's precedent setting. I think it's responding to the public. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So, we made a decision as to where the meeting's going to be. We've, I think, talked about December 15, 2020 Page 30 the possibility of March 1st and 2nd, with the 2nd being potentially not necessary. I do want to make a comment in terms of public comment. There may have been some folks that were unhappy with the limited number -- amount of time, but no one's been denied an opportunity to speak. I think we had 140 speakers at one point, many of which were in the room, many of which were in overflow rooms and came in here and, of course, we had plenty on Zoom and on the telephone. No one will be denied an opportunity to speak regardless of where the hearing is. Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And I think, you know, there again, with the technology that we have, I agree with Commissioner Saunders. You folks will recall the stormwater utility and the fee that transpired there and the unprecedented amount of public speakers we had that evening. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's when Commissioner Solis was in a pub in Ireland, I believe. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. He was actually on his third ale by the time we got through with that four-hour hearing. But the bottom line is I think we can accommodate everybody appropriately. I'd like to make a motion that we go ahead and set March 1st as the date for that hearing with the overflow day of March 2nd and hold it here in these chambers. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I love it. It's the Ides of March. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let me ask Mr. Klatzkow a quick question, because we're doing this without discussion with the petitioner. Does that present any difficulty? COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Somebody forgot to ask them. MR. KLATZKOW: No. The agenda's set by the County December 15, 2020 Page 31 Manager and in consultation with the Chair. Here it's being set in consultation with the entire Board. Absolutely appropriate. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you. All right. We have a motion. Was there a second? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I second it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any discussion? MR. OCHS: Sir, I'm assuming 9:00 a.m. for the start time. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. You get to pick. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion and a second for the meeting to begin at 9:00 a.m. on March 1st, keeping March 2nd open if necessary. All in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Aye. COMMISSIONER LoCASTRO: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye. COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. Do we have any registered -- let me ask if we have any registered speakers. MR. MILLER: No, we have nobody online or in the room registered. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Then unless there's some other business, we are adjourned. ***** There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 12:48 p.m. December 15, 2020 Page 32 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL ___________________________________ BURT SAUNDERS, CHAIRMAN ATTEST CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK __________________________________ These minutes approved by the Board on ____________, as presented ______________ or as corrected _____________. TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS COURT REPORTING BY TERRI LEWIS, FPR, COURT REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC.