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Agenda 12/08/2020 Item # 2B (BCC 10/22/2020 Special Mask Order Meeting Minutes )12/08/2020 COLLIER COUNTY Board of County Commissioners Item Number: 2.B Item Summary: October 22, 2020 - BCC/Special Mask Order Meeting Minutes Meeting Date: 12/08/2020 Prepared by: Title: Executive Secretary to County Manager – County Manager's Office Name: MaryJo Brock 11/05/2020 1:47 PM Submitted by: Title: County Manager – County Manager's Office Name: Leo E. Ochs 11/05/2020 1:47 PM Approved By: Review: County Manager's Office MaryJo Brock County Manager Review Completed 11/25/2020 11:21 AM Board of County Commissioners MaryJo Brock Meeting Pending 12/08/2020 9:00 AM 2.B Packet Pg. 22 October 22, 2020 Page 1 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS Naples, Florida, October 22, 2020 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 3:00 p.m., in SPECIAL SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: Chairman: Burt L. Saunders Andy Solis William L. McDaniel, Jr. Donna Fiala Penny Taylor ALSO PRESENT: Leo Ochs, County Manager Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations October 22, 2020 Page 2 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ladies and gentlemen, the meeting of the county commission will please come to order. We're fortunate today to have Senior Pastor Heath Jarvis from the Faith Life Worship Center to get us on the right path this afternoon. After the invocation, Commissioner Taylor, if you'd lead us in the Pledge. Item #1 INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE – INVOCATION GIVEN PASTOR JARVIS: Well, I hope it can be on the right path this afternoon. Good afternoon, everybody. Let's pray. Father in heaven, we come before you today, we're thankful that we live in the greatest nation on the planet. We're thankful to see your hand of protection and provision on us, thankful to live in one of the most beautiful places on earth here in southwest Florida. Lord, this has been a year of unprecedented challenges, but throughout it all, we've been privileged to see you at work. We're still here, we're still blessed, we're still strong, we're still hopeful. Today, God, we have the opportunity to discuss some important topics that will affect all who live here, so I ask for your guidance as we discuss these issues. Help us, Lord, to see things how they are; no more than that and no less than that. Help us to make decisions based on reality, not a narrative, not an agenda. Help us to discuss these things, Lord, with civility, with patience, and with respect. Most of all, Lord, help us to make the decisions that will best benefit our community. Your word tells us in the book of James that October 22, 2020 Page 3 if we ask for your wisdom, you will give it to us in generous abundance. So, we ask for it, and we receive it thankfully by faith. I pray this according to your word, and I pray it in the name of Jesus. Amen. (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Welcome, everybody. When we all signed up to be county commissioners, we didn't have any kind of a game plan for a pandemic, so that's one of the reasons why we are here for the third or fourth time on an issue that's very important. Before we get into that, I want to make a suggestion to the commission on how we can proceed with -- or how I would suggest we proceed with public comment. One of the arguments or complaints from folks that have been on the other side of the issue, in terms of requiring masks, is that they haven't been given an opportunity to present medical testimony. So if we have medical experts, epidemiologists, infectious disease experts that are -- that want to participate in public comment, I would suggest that we ask them to kind of state their credentials, so we know that they really are experts, and then give them more time to state their case in opposition to any kind of a mask-wearing mandate. Does anybody have any problem with that? Is that acceptable? (No verbal response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I think we -- we have about 50 or 60 people. MR. MILLER: About 65 registered at this point. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We've limited speakers to two minutes in the past, that has worked well, I believe, and I'd like to continue to do that, other than medical experts; they can speak for an extended period of time. I asked for this meeting to be set at 3:00 for a couple of reasons. One is that I believe we'll go into the early evening, and I wanted to October 22, 2020 Page 4 give people that are working an opportunity to log on and participate in this conversation after 5:00. So, my expectation is that we'll be here certainly through 5:30, 6:00, 6:30. This gives people that are working and want to participate an opportunity to do so. Just trying to be fair to everybody. With that, I'll turn this over to the county manager to introduce the folks that are going to be talking from -- as representatives of the medical community and the hospital. Mr. Ochs? Item #2A TO CONSIDER WHETHER TO EXTEND EXECUTIVE ORDER 2020-06, EMERGENCY EXECUTIVE ORDER OF THE BCC OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, MANDATING THAT INDIVIDUALS WEAR A FACE COVERING IN PUBLIC IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES – MOTION FOR EXECUTIVE ORDER 2020-06 TO EXPIRE – APPROVED; MOTION TO APPROVE THE CHAIRMAN’S REVISED ORDER W/CHANGES THAT WILL EXPIRE ON APRIL 13, 2021 – APPROVED MR. OCHS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As is our custom, we will begin the special meeting by hearing from the Department of Health for Collier County State Department of Health. Mr. John Drew will begin the briefing. MR. DREW: Good afternoon. Thanks. Nice to see you all again. I am John Drew, for the record, Florida Department of Health in Collier County, and I'm presenting on behalf of Stephanie Vick. And before I get started, we have Dr. David Lindner from NCH Healthcare System participating remotely, and he's going to make a October 22, 2020 Page 5 couple of opening remarks. MR. MILLER: Let me get him ready. Sorry, I didn't know he was coming up here. MR. DREW: Oh. MR. MILLER: All right. Mr. Lindner, are you with us? DR. LINDNER: Can you hear me? This is Dr. Lindner. MR. MILLER: Yes, sir, we can hear you. DR. LINDNER: Okay. Thank you for the opportunity to again address the commission today on October 22nd, 2020 at special session. My name is Dr. David Lindner, and I am the subdivision head of pulmonary and of critical care. I have academic appointments at Mayo Clinic School of Medicine and University of Central Florida, as well as I am the medical director for COVID-19 for the NCH Healthcare System. I am regretfully unable to attend this meeting in person today, as I am currently lecturing at the virtual national ACOI convention and am unable to leave my computer setup to come to the commission chambers. As we shared with the commission on October 13th, in the regular meeting, it remains our position that by scientific evidence, the wearing of appropriate face coverings, masks, personal hygiene, and social distancing are and remains the most effective methods available at this time to slow the spread of aerosolized COVID-19. Since asymptomatic individuals are the most infectious part of this process, the current requirements to wear a (audio distortion) covering and mask in the public under circumstances detailed in the emergency executive order of 2020-05 and 06 has undoubtedly saved lives in Collier County and beyond in Lee County. This allowed the health care system to safely treat and decrease the surge of COVID-19 that we experienced here in Collier County. Unfortunately, we are now seeing, both nationwide and locally, the October 22, 2020 Page 6 potential next wave and continuous wave of COVID-19 cases. And with the advent of our usual viral season and the changes of our weather and the hopeful return of our seasonal residents, it is likely that cases will once again increase, as they appear to be doing. Collier County has, in many ways, been fortunate in other ways, such as cases per 100,000 (audio distortion). COVID-19 has had a significant and remains a significant penetration into our community. And as we discuss this issue again today, COVID-19 is still present, ready, and waiting to infect members of our community. NCH Healthcare and our partner health care providers have and will continue to undertake the daunting task to respond to this crisis. We have done so through the acquisition of appropriate PCE, ventilators, equipment, as well as numerous now therapeutic for this new novel virus, and we have been successful, and we will continue to be so. But a far greater success would be for us to prevent the disease (inaudible) in the first place. The very nature of our community, population, demographic, and density, as well as other factors, such as people traveling to Collier from other places in the country and world, all contribute to the risk that the requirement to wear face coverings (audio distortion) has mitigated (audio distortion). It's also a scientific fact that when a (audio distortion), especially where (audio distortion). CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Excuse me for just a moment, Dr. Lindner. We're having a little trouble. DR. LINDNER: (Audio distortion.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Or at least I'm having a little trouble. MR. MILLER: I believe that's on his end, sir. Something with the way he's mic’ed. COMMISSIONER FIALA: He must be wearing a mask October 22, 2020 Page 7 because it's -- it's all muted. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Can you -- I'm not sure if there's anything we can do to -- MR. MILLER: Dr. Lindner, we're having trouble hearing you clearly. DR. LINDNER: I'm not sure -- MR. MILLER: We're having trouble hearing you clearly. DR. LINDNER: Okay. I'm very sorry, sir. I have a good signal, so I don't know why. Can you hear me now? MR. MILLER: Yes. DR. LINDNER: Okay. I will -- it is also -- it is a scientific fact that when individuals wear a mask, especially when adequate social distancing isn't practical, the likelihood of transmitting or (audio distortion) COVID-19 is significantly decreased. Now, while a suitable, safe, and effective vaccine may be on our horizon, it is not available yet. And our single and most safe method that is not devastating (audio distortion) economy (audio distortion). It is our opinion that extending (audio distortion) can lessen a resurgence of the virus. It's our opinion that the requirement to wear a mask in public provides businesses in our community, our seasonal residents, who are wondering if it's safe to return, confident that their actions will not result in negative repercussions upon them and will encourage safe actions among the (audio distortion) population. It will protect employees, who are at work, from harm, and will importantly protect the citizens of Collier County from illness and death. Finally, as our community does strain to recover from the earlier shutdown from the spring and summer, the lowering of transmission of COVID-19 will continue to inspire confidence for our seasonal residents, to the migrant farm workers population, all of whom Collier depends upon for the health of our community, that Collier is October 22, 2020 Page 8 an open (unintelligible), and that we are using appropriate safeguards so that they may engage in public activities. Preventing the real possibility of viral resurgence is our most vital and important task, in the most positive way that we can continue to recover emotionally, physically, and economically. It is the opinion of the vast majority of the medical staff within the NCH Healthcare System that continuation of this mask mandate for Collier County is still appropriate until such time that we can successfully prevent the disease by (audio distortion). I thank you for your time and your kind invitation to once again address the commission. If there are any questions, I would be happy to provide the answers to the best of my ability. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Dr. Lindner, let me have you stand by. Do you -- let me just ask you, did you write out your comments? Because our court reporter was having a great deal of difficulty hearing you. If you have your comments in writing, if you could provide that, that would be helpful. If not, not a problem. DR. LINDNER: Yes, I do. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. If you could provide that, that would be -- DR. LINDNER: I did -- I did write out my comments. They're on paper, but I can have them typed up and I can send them to -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That would be very helpful for -- for the record. Let's see if there are any questions from the county commission before you hang up. Any questions for Dr. Lindner from the commission? COMMISSIONER FIALA: I didn't hear a lot of what he said, but -- so I don't have any questions. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Dr. Lindner, we have no questions at this time. If anything October 22, 2020 Page 9 comes up, will you be available by phone in the event that we do need to talk to you -- DR. LINDNER: Yes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- again? DR. LINDNER: And Miss Vick has my phone number. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. DR. LINDNER: And I can -- I can provide it to others if they -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. DR. LINDNER: -- need to. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you, Dr. Lindner. MR. DREW: Yes, thank you, Dr. Lindner. Thank you, Commissioners. So, we were asked to provide our usual data points, with comparisons to Lee County, so that's what we did. Before I present those, I'd just like to remind you that comparing these data points directly like this doesn't account for all the confounding variables that make the results look the way that they look. So, starting with influenza-like illness syndrome from the emergency department visits. On all these charts, the blue lines will represent Collier County, the orange lines represent Lee County. You can see the Lee County influenza-like illness trend seems to be going downward, and the Collier trend seems to be going slightly upward, although the Lee County chart has that anomaly there, that high number at the beginning of the two-week period, which is causing that trend line to go down. So, if you took that out of there, it's probably going to be relatively flat. Same similar situation with the COVID-like illness, that both lines are relatively flat, with the Lee County going slightly upward and the Collier County going slightly downward. October 22, 2020 Page 10 Looking at the positivity rates, the trend line on the Lee County positivity rates is a little bit steeper than the Collier County positivity rates, but they are both increasing. And then looking at positivity rates over time, you can see that both curves follow pretty much the same pattern, with the peak in the middle of July, bottoming out at the end of September, and starting to increase again over the last several weeks. We didn't go to -- to the region level or the ZIP Code level with Lee County data, but it was just -- since we showed this to you last week, we wanted to show it to you again to remind you that although the overall county positivity rate is around 6 and a half percent, the -- the -- there's variability in the different regions of the county. The next slide, we have hospital capacity. We haven't presented you this hospital capacity data in this way before, but this is the way that Lee County's been calculating it and -- and presenting it, so we just used the same data points and plugged in the Collier County data. Again, you can see that there's pretty much no significant difference in those trends. And then looking at our hospital data the way you're used to looking at it, remember the maroon color at the bottom of the bars is the COVID-filled beds. And I'll remind you that last week the average number of COVID-filled beds was between -- in the -- in mid to upper 20s. And if you look at this two-week period, we're -- the average has jumped to the low to mid 30s. And this is the hospital charts over time, the 14-day moving average of hospitalizations over time. And the -- last week we predicted that there would be a slight uptick, and that's indeed what happened. Back to the comparisons, Collier with Lee and comparing the last two-week period with the current two-week period. So, for new cases, Collier's case count has increased -- I shouldn't have said it that October 22, 2020 Page 11 way. Not the case count but the number of new cases in those periods increased 66.1 percent for Collier, 56.7 percent for Lee, and the positivity rates increased 31.8 percent for Collier and 41 percent for Lee. And we showed you this last week as well. The -- the leading causes of death for COVID-19, compared to the -- to 2019 leading causes of death. So, if you remember, our first case of COVID-19 occurred in about April, so we're looking at about seven months' worth of COVID-19 deaths, compared to a full year for the other causes of death. At this point in time, Collier would -- COVID would be the fifth leading cause of death for Collier County and the fourth leading cause of death for Lee County. And this chart we've been showing to you every day for a long time. Collier is still in third place for the cumulative cases per capita, with Miami-Dade and Broward one and two. And the -- this chart we showed also last week. It has the lines on there, the vertical lines, showing when the different mask mandates were in place. It's essentially the same as the bar chart we looked at a few minutes ago, showing the positivity rates over -- this is over a longer time span, and you can see those curves are relatively following the same pattern. So, again, all these data are -- are not necessarily accounting for all the confounding factors, like the differences in population, the differences in population demographics, the traveling that occurs between our two counties, and several other different factors, but we've pulled out some recent emerging international and national scientific evidence. These are peer reviewed studies that are starting to demonstrate that mask mandates actually do make a difference and help slow the spread of COVID-19. So this June 2020 study out of the University of Iowa says the October 22, 2020 Page 12 study provides evidence that US states mandating use of face masks in public had a greater decline in daily COVID-19 growth rates after issuing these mandates, compared with states that did not issue the mandates. Then in August of 2020, out of the South Carolina State Department of Health, when comparing the jurisdictions that have mask requirements in place to those that don't, the jurisdictions with mask requirements have shown a 46.3 percent greater decrease in total number of cases during the four weeks after the requirements were implemented. And then, finally, this one, just published a couple weeks ago out of Canada's National Bureau of Economic Research. Results suggest that indoor mask mandates can be a powerful preventive measure in the COVID-19 context. Estimates of mask mandate impact across Ontario's public health units are equivalent to a 25 to 31 percent reduction in weekly cases. Furthermore, this -- using survey data, we show that mask mandates increase self-reported mask usage in Canada by 30 percentage points, suggesting that the policy has a significant impact on behavior. Jointly, these results suggest that mandating indoor mask wearing in public places is a powerful policy measure to slow the spread of COVID-19 with little associated economic disruption. And I'll remind you that these studies, they used sophisticated statistical analysis to control for these variables that I'm mentioning, about mask mandates in different jurisdictions versus non -- no mask mandates and the traveling between jurisdictions and things like that. So, also, I want to remind everyone that the Florida Surgeon General still has a public health advisory in effect. And that public health advisory says that every individual in Florida should wear a face covering over the nose and mouth in any setting where social October 22, 2020 Page 13 distancing is not possible, both indoors and outdoors. And the CDC also has mask guidelines and recommendation for people to wear masks. I pulled this from the CDC website two days ago. Masks are recommended as a simple barrier to help prevent respiratory droplets from traveling into the air and onto other people when the person wearing the mask coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice. This is called source control. COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact with one another, within about 6 feet. So, the use of masks is particularly important in settings where people are close to each other or where social distancing is difficult to maintain. And the next slide just shows the list of scientific peer reviewed articles from which the surgeon general and the CDC based -- on which they based their guidelines. That is all for me, unless there are any questions. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let me see if there are any questions. Nobody's light is lit up, so I'm assuming there are no questions from the commission. All right. Thank you. And if you -- can you remain for a little bit, in case there are questions during the rest -- MR. DREW: I'm here and Stephanie is here as well. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Great. Thank you. MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, I had asked Mr. Mullins from our office to prepare a few other slides, essentially pulling data points from the department of health website for a slightly broader range of counties. I thought that might be informative for the board at this time. Mr. Mullins? MR. MULLINS: Good afternoon, Commissioners. For the record, John Mullins, government affairs manager. And Commissioner McDaniel had requested a series of charts plotting October 22, 2020 Page 14 state department of health daily coronavirus report data, which I will now briefly review for format and included data points, and then defer to the commissioner for his analysis. The commissioner requested three chart topics, positivity rate, hospitalizations, and fatalities, using the earliest report by county that we could obtain, and that ended up being April 25th. The charts plot one-month intervals from that date, of which coincidentally took us through September 25th, the day that phase three for all counties was announced by Governor DeSantis. Now, the highlighted portions of the report that you see there were where the -- were where the data were collected. And regarding positivity, please keep in mind that the report states that the rate is calculated excluding people who have previously tested positive. And on the positivity charts, the colored number at each data point is the total number of test results listed in that daily report. Now, there are two charts for each of the three topics, one being for southwest Florida compared -- comparison of Collier, Lee, and Charlotte Counties, and then the other, a wider selection of populous counties. Regardless of chart, Collier County is represented by the red line in each chart. A circle and cross represents the date that a mask order was put into effect by a county. And, as you will see, a couple of the counties had mask orders in place prior to public availability of county by county data. Also, several counties had stay-at-home orders or had passed resolutions urging residents to stay home. And all these orders and resolutions predate the county by county report data. Likewise, the statewide safer-at-home executive order by the governor also predates this data. And, lastly, the phased reopening time-line is depicted on every chart simply for reference. And with that, I am happy to control the various charts per the October 22, 2020 Page 15 direction and comments of Commissioner McDaniel. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel? COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: Yes. And I -- I thank you, John. I -- you and I worked a lot on these -- on these numbers. I wanted to share this information because -- with you. I have -- I -- I look at a lot of data sets. I hear a lot of information that comes from a lot of different people. And one of the things that disappointed me early on was our board not deploying our staff and bringing back information to us for us to review and -- and make our decisions accordingly. So, what I -- and it wasn't random, I just -- I had named, I think, those five counties; Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, Orange, and Pinellas Counties. Those were five heavily, densely populated communities that all had stay-at-home orders and mask mandates well in advance of ours and certainly have a more dense -- denser population. And I compared our numbers, if you will, on positivity, hospitalizations, and then fatalities to those communities, and that's all here. And then I also compared Collier County to our sister counties, Lee and Charlotte. Lee County has had neither stay-at-home order at all or a mask mandate and double our population. And then Charlotte County did enact a mask mandate, but after -- after we did. And, again, this is from -- from my perspective, everybody's kind of -- even -- even with what John had showed earlier, everybody's kind of doing the same thing. The virus is doing what the virus does, irrespective of local government's efforts to forestall it or reduce the spread or anything along those lines. And of course, John, I -- that was -- that was a very appropriate statement. There's -- there's an enormous amount of factors that come into play when you're looking at this data. Community density October 22, 2020 Page 16 population, demographic of population. There's -- there's, you know, you -- there's hardly anybody that knows more about what we have going on with our community of Immokalee than myself. And the -- with the adversities that we, as a community, have had to face, and those diversities of population, cultural barriers, and so on and so forth. So, I just -- I wanted this data to become part of our record. You know, there are similarities throughout everybody's case management, if you will. I stayed on fairly easy -- easy numbers to ascertain positivity, hospitalizations, and then of course fatalities. I -- in my heart, I truly believe that the majority of the management, with regard to this illness, has to do with not overwhelming our health care system. And I've been very, very diligent in looking at our health care assets, both in Collier and in Lee. Especially because managing Immokalee's population, those folks have a chance to go to Lee County health systems just as quick as they can come to Collier. And so that was the reason that I added hospitalizations in here as well, just so we could see those trends and -- and do some comparison with communities that haven't had mandates, haven't had stay-at-home orders, and then those that have. And, quite frankly, though there are anomalies, and there's an enormous amount of data that makes up the data, everybody's kind of doing the same thing. Everybody -- there was one singular point that I could say for sure we were all on a downtrend, coming off of that first 45 days of countrywide shutdown. The 45 days to slow the spread, we were all on a downtrend. And as soon as we went into phase one, everybody -- everybody went up. And -- and so -- and -- but they've gone up at different rates and different curves. Lee County, not having the mask mandate and/or a stay-at-home order, their actual numbers -- they never really peaked, October 22, 2020 Page 17 they just kind of -- you can see their number, it's right there on the screen. It just kind of curved, and then it's come back down in amongst the rest. So, I just -- it's not a lobby for or against, it's information. It's -- and I think Mr. -- I want to thank John for doing this. This is -- this is something that I -- I would've liked for us to have done quite some time ago as we were making these decisions. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner Taylor? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes. I've been doing some reading, and one thing that I noticed that we are markedly different from the other counties that you brought into it are the fatalities. And Lee County leads the fatalities, it looks like. And one of the -- I don't think it's recent. Well, it's recent because we're discussing this -- this epidemic or pandemic is recent, but one of the documents that I read is with a study that says that mask wearing could be minimizing the symptoms. Not that it keeps it completely away, but it could minimize it to the wearer so you don't get as sick. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor? I apologize for interrupting, but let's -- in terms of the process, let's go through the questions for Mr. Mullins and then -- I think you're getting into arguments supportive of a position. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Not so much argument, just a comment, and I'll stop. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. But let's -- yeah, let's try to -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: That's fine. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- get through that and then reserve the -- that type of dialogue for when we're ready to coalesce all of this information. Any other questions for Mr. Mullins? October 22, 2020 Page 18 All right. Thank you. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: Thank you, John. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Ochs, does that conclude -- MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. That -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- comments from staff? MR. OCHS: -- concludes staff presentation. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We obviously have quite a few people registered to speak. Would it be desirable to go ahead and start the public comment? All right. MR. MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have 17 registered speakers here in the room, 51 registered online. Of that 51, 33 are online with us right now. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me again reiterate that we have a two-minute time limit, unless you are involved in the medical world as an expert in infectious disease or epidemiology. I don't think I said that right. But we'll get your credentials if you want to have a few more minutes. MR. MILLER: And I want to remind our online speakers, when we call your name, we'll -- we'll allow you to speak on our end, but you may still have to unmute your microphone on your end. All right. Let's begin. Here in the room, Keith Flaugh. He will be followed by April Donahue, Kristina Houser, and then Carol Moore. Mr. Flaugh, you have two minutes. MR. FLAUGH: Good afternoon -- good evening. My name is Keith Flaugh. Marco Island, Florida. I urge you to vote against continuing this mask mandate. It's overreaching. A recent meta-analysis of scientific literature, including 11 randomized control trials and ten observational studies, found that there was no clear laboratory-confirmed evidence that mask October 22, 2020 Page 19 protection works. In fact, there was quite a bit of evidence that wearing a mask could actually raise your risk. Recent -- three weeks ago, CDC put out a study of 2,000 people that contracted COVID virus. 86 percent of those people wore their mask a hundred percent or most of the time, only 3 -- 3.9 percent who never wore a mask contract -- in that study never wore a mask. So there's a huge amount of evidence there that wearing a mask could actually increase your risk. And I've been here now for four of these -- I think there's been five, Commissioner -- for four of these. And we hear a number of folks get up here and say that they're feeling much safer because they're wearing a mask. Wearing a mask doesn't stop you from getting COVID, and the CDC data confirms that. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is April Donahue. She'll be followed by Kristina Houser, Carol Moore, and then Laurie Harris. Miss Donahue, are you with us online? MS. DONAHUE: Yes, I am. Can you hear me? MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am. You have two minutes, please begin. MS. DONAHUE: Thank you, Chair Saunders, and commissioners for the opportunity to speak today. And I represent the board of directors of Collier County Medical Society. We applaud the commission for enacting a mask order in Collier County and ask you to extend the order that requires facial coverages. The CCMS board has reviewed input from the volunteer members of their COVID-19 mask force and discussed issues such as the efficacy of masks, the upcoming flu and snowbird seasons, the phase three openings in Florida, and the rates of COVID-19 cases and death in our community. The board's conclusion is to strongly recommend that the county extend the order. The CDC has concluded, and I quote, the principal mode by October 22, 2020 Page 20 which people are infected with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, is through exposure to respiratory droplets carrying infectious virus. The pathogens are transmitted primarily in one or more of the following situations: Enclosed spaces, prolonged exposure, and inadequate ventilation or air handling. The virus can be transmitted to others even when more than 6 feet away or in passing through a space after the infectious person has left. Masks and facial coverages are the strongest method currently available to us of preventing transmission and, at the least, reducing severity of symptoms. Numerous studies demonstrate that mask mandates are effective in reducing the percentages of cases by protecting others from infection that the mask wearer might carry. The mandate is working in Collier County. While our numbers are getting better, however, they are still fluctuating, and there's major risk with this potentially deadly disease, which could also have long-term effects on survivors that are not still fully understood. The significant proportion of infections, around 40 to 45 percent, occur without symptoms. An infection can be spread by people showing no symptoms. Nursing home positivity rates have begun increasing again. The results of moving Florida to phase three will not yet be seen for another few weeks. Death rates remain elevated. Masks are safe for the vast majority of people, and the order provides exceptions for those who are physically unable to wear them. It is our duty to protect the health and safety of those around us. My mask protects you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you very much. Your -- MS. DONAHUE: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Your time is up. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker will be Kristina Houser, October 22, 2020 Page 21 followed by Carol Moore, Laurie Harris, and then Christina Restrepo. Miss Houser, you have two minutes. MS. HOUSER: Thank you. Good afternoon. Just to shift the conversation away from the data a little bit, because I think we're too focused, really, on the positivity rate, even though we're only talking about 6 percent at this point. There's a lot of information out there that these tests are very sensitive, and they're only picking up, in many cases, small particles of the virus, which doesn't indicate that a person is, in fact, infected or able to transmit the virus. But the governor of the State of Florida, Governor DeSantis, has wisely decided to move us to phase three of our reopening plan, his reopening plan, which is a full and complete reopening. And he issued that order on September 25th. And he noted in there that no COVID-19 emergency ordinance may prevent an individual from working or from operating a business. Now, while you don't explicitly prohibit those things, your -- your executive order -- which I think is inappropriate -- inappropriately named the governor issued an executive order, because he is, in fact, the executive of this state, you're a legislative body. But putting that aside, you are impinging upon businesses' ability to operate freely because you're imposing restrictions upon them. And I -- although I wasn't present at the last meeting, I was able to watch it. And there was a gentleman that testified that he has had to quit his job two times because he's so uncomfortable wearing a mask. So, you are imposing restrictions. And I -- I'm running out of time, unfortunately. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'll give you a few more seconds -- MS. HOUSER: Thank you. October 22, 2020 Page 22 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- but I just want to clarify the gentleman was very emotional in his comments. His employer wanted his employees to wear a mask, and he was not comfortable wearing a mask -- MS. HOUSER: Yes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- and so he resigned. That was not a function of a mask order, that was an employer requiring employees to keep each other safe by wearing a mask. So just wanted to state that for the record. MS. HOUSER: Well, I don't think that's -- that was necessarily clear from his comments, because employers are imposing these restrictions on employees in order to be in compliance with your mandate. The governor's order also says that it's suspending all related individual fines and penalties. So, although your order only imposes fines upon businesses, I think it's clear that the spirit of the governor's order is to bring us to a full and complete reopening and lift all of these restrictions. And I just have to make one point, which is very important, because -- I've been following the case against the county regarding this mandate. And the county attorney put in a document where he apparently agrees that this -- the spirit of this order is contrary to the county's order. Because he wrote to the Court that because of Governor DeSantis' executive order, nothing further can or will happen, from the county's standpoint, until the matter is heard by the special magistrate in November. That's referring to the citations that were issued to Oakes Farms and Seed to Table. No further code enforcement citations will be issued against the plaintiff's two stores as doing so would be both meaningless and pointless. So, if continuing to enforce your order is meaningless and October 22, 2020 Page 23 pointless, why are we even here? Just let it expire. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You do need to wrap it up. Thank you very much. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Carol Moore. She'll be followed by Laurie Harris, Christina Restrepo, and then Christy McLaughlin. Miss Moore, are you with us online? MS. MOORE: Yeah, I'm here. Can you hear me? MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am. You have two minutes, please begin. MS. MOORE: Okay. Thank you. I'd just like to say that I do love seeing the "three maskateers," Solis, Saunders, and Taylor properly muzzled up there with a mask. And this is a -- smoke and mirrors. What is the possible agenda here, people? This is reduced down to a cult. This is something that 99 percent 9 percent [sic] of the people recover from with no problem. The oldest people, maybe 74 percent, like our president, you know, recover very well. So, I don't know what your agenda is. I mean, I swear, like, the emperor has no clothes. These medical people that get up there, they're buffoons. I don't know what the agenda is. This is the most -- it's the most amazing thing I've ever seen. So, I saw a little -- little meme, and I'm going to repeat it to you, from Cat in the Hat. I will not wear it on my face; I will not wear it any place. I will not wear it to get in; I will not wear it on my chin. I will not wear it on my ear; I will not wear it out of fear. I will not wear your stupid mask; I will not wear it, do not ask. The governor cut your legs out. You can't enforce anything. Back down. Admit you're wrong and just stop. And just realize -- I told you before, at the last meeting, you will not be reelected. I am going to make sure of that. But you do not represent your district, October 22, 2020 Page 24 and you're just way off base here. MR. MILLER: All right. Your next speaker is Laurie Harris. She'll be followed by Christina Restrepo, Christy McLaughlin, and Cindy Grossman. Miss Harris, you have two minutes. MS. HARRIS: Thank you, Commissioners. MR. OCHS: Ma'am -- MR. MILLER: Pull the mic down. MR. OCHS: Pull that mic a little closer. Thank you. MS. HARRIS: Better? MR. MILLER: Yes. MS. HARRIS: Commissioners, first I have to start by thanking Commissioner Fiala and McDaniel for not imposing a face mask. And now, after listening to Dr. Lindner, I'd like to thank him for admitting they do no good, since you've had a mask mandate and cases are going up. So, thank you to Dr. Lindner. Back in April, I spoke here about reopening Collier County, that my rights do not end with somebody else's fears, and we've never before quarantined the healthy. Yesterday, Florida's House of Reps received a study from the CDC indicating that nearly 60 percent of the deaths had -- labeled COVID have errors, 10 percent were misclassified. We heard two weeks of flatten the curve back in March. Two weeks was not to lessen the number of cases, it was to lessen the number of cases presenting to the hospital at the same time. Okay? Two weeks is now eight months. The CDC, which you have referenced in one of your summaries, says that between ages zero and 70 there's a 99 percent survival rate. Over 70, 75 percent. So, when the -- when does this face covering expire? When there's a vaccine, a forced vaccine, proof of a vaccine? Do I get a October 22, 2020 Page 25 microchip to prove my vaccine? Where does this end? Bill Gates has been working on a vaccine. He's not a doctor. MS and MSNBC stands for Microsoft. Why do you think he needs to control what is said on your TV? His father was the head of Planned Parenthood. He was -- took out eugenics. Eugenics, what does that mean? He gave vaccines to the elderly to get rid of them. I will -- couple more things. I heard that bell. Your legal impact from your executive summary says there's none. Well, maybe not, but you're taking away my rights. Your fiscal impact says there's none. Untrue. There are businesses suffering because you are forcing people to wear face masks. I will not go into one that forces me to wear one. The CDC says face masks, if you can't -- you don't want to buy one, they have guidelines on their websites for do it yourself. Really? Do it yourself? Should we ask Martha Stewart how to decorate them for the holidays for a Zoom meeting with our families. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We do need you to wrap up, if you would. MS. HARRIS: These -- these face masks don't work. The doctor here just admitted it. If these face masks are mandatory, these face coverings are mandatory, that means they are infected with a biohazard. They are being discarded like cigarettes butts. If they are truly the biohazard that you say they are, I want the medical receptacles set up at hospitals for them to be disposed of properly, and I'd like to know what your plan is to do that. But I laugh because there is no plan to do that, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you very much. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Christina Restrepo. She'll be followed by Christy McLaughlin, then Cindy Grossman, then Melissa Hughes. October 22, 2020 Page 26 Miss Restrepo, are you with us online? MS. RESTREPO: Yes, I am. I -- is there any chance you can put me -- MR. MILLER: Ma'am -- ma'am -- MS. RESTREPO: -- to the next one? I just walked in the door from work. Please, I ask you to just -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's pass on that, go to the next one. MR. MILLER: All right. I'm going to go to our next -- next speaker in the room then, Christy McLaughlin, and she'll be followed by Cindy Grossman, Melissa Hughes, and then we'll come back to Christina Restrepo. Miss McLaughlin, once the table is ready, you will have two minutes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We can use both podiums, right? MR. MILLER: Yes. I'm sorry. MS. MCLAUGHLIN: Good afternoon. My name is Christy McLaughlin. I urge you to let this mandate expire. I have always been against these mask mandates. I have brought some quotations from federal case law. In the appellate court, Butler versus Wolf, that -- although it regards the issues on stay-at-home orders, it is very relevant because it discusses the constitutionality when we're facing pandemics. To quote it: The constitution sets certain lines that may not be crossed even in an emergency. Another quote: Although courts are lenient to give deference to temporary measures for emergency circumstances, that deference cannot go on forever. And what we're seeing here, with this continuous lengthening of this mandate, is it's a manner in which this ordinance is just administered completely and shockingly arbitrary. October 22, 2020 Page 27 The greater issue here is that you have a legal duty to create an ordinance that is enforceable and that has the outcome and the result that the ordinance was created for. Governor DeSantis has banned localities from collecting fines for mask mandates. It is unenforceable. And we heard from Keith Flaugh that the CDC has released studies. Mine says 70 percent of 154-person study who contracted COVID wore masks, quote, always. So, efficacy of masks is not resulting in the outcome that you yearn for. You, as commissioners, are aware of this, and yet you're maintaining this order because -- it's in hopes of the people are fearful enough to simply comply because there might be legal ramifications. I urge people to vote educatedly, vote wisely, and vote selflessly. Because although the commissioners sitting here don't have opponents in this election or are not seeking reelection -- other than McDaniel, Commissioner McDaniel, who has always been in favor of the constitution. Thank you. And congratulations, Commissioner Fiala. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We do need -- MS. MCLAUGHLIN: I'll wrap up. Congratulations on your retirement. You must vote, because you have to protect the interests of the constitution and future generations which the current sitting commissioners, Taylor, Saunders, and Solis, have not been. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Cindy Grossman. She'll be followed by Melissa Hughes, then Christina Restrepo, and then Dean Parave. Miss Grossman, are you with us online? Miss Grossman? Check and make sure you're not -- MS. GROSSMAN: Yes. October 22, 2020 Page 28 MR. MILLER: Yes, there you are. You have two minutes, ma'am. MS. GROSSMAN: Hello? MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am. You have two minutes, please begin. MS. GROSSMAN: Okay. Thank you. We need the mask mandate to be renewed, and we'll need it at least until next spring, between flu season and COVID's new surge and all the snowbirds and vacationers that will arrive. Even if a vaccine is found, that citizens why -- we believe is safe and is not rushed for political reasons, it will take a long time to distribute it widely, and there will be anti-vaxxers to deal with. So, masks are the solution to keep us safe and the economy going. I know a nurse administrator at a hospital who has no patient contact, and she just quit her job because she believes the second surge of COVID will be much worse than the first, and she doesn't want the exposure, even though she's been feeling safer at the hospital than anywhere else, due to all the hospital precautions, including masking. I've spoken to employees at Costco, Target, and the offices of my doctors. They all live in fear and are grateful that their employers have mandates, regardless of the county status. So, the county mandate matters for other employees who are not so fortunate. Essential workers, who are responsible to care for our health and keep us stocked with food, aspirin, and toilet paper want the mandate. The rest of us owe it to them to wear masks. People must understand that the masks are to protect others as much as themselves. And these essential workers who want the mandate wear masks at least eight hours a day, five days a week. The rest of us should be October 22, 2020 Page 29 able to deal with the discomfort for a couple of hours on occasion when we do errands. As more is learned about COVID, it's clear that it's more contagious than originally thought. Now we know it can last in the air for hours as an aerosol, especially in places that are not well ventilated. And just yesterday the CDC changed the 15-minute exposure guidelines from 15 consecutive minutes to 15 nonconsecutive minutes over 24 hours. Yes, the CDC and other authorities have made changes as they've learned more, because the virus is brand-new and they're human and need time to study and study COVID patients and learn more as time goes on, but this is the best information we have. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need you to wrap up very quickly, if you would. Thank you. MS. GROSSMAN: Okay. Suddenly everyone believes that they're constitutional experts but they're not. They're not constitutional experts any more than they're brain surgeons or rocket scientists. Virtually all constitutional experts believe that mask mandates are constitutional. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you very much. MS. GROSSMAN: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Next speaker is Melissa Hughes. She'll be followed by Christina Restrepo, Dean Parave, and David Rasmussen. Miss Hughes, you have two minutes. MS. HUGHES: Take this off. Thank you for -- MR. MILLER: Can you please step a little closer to the microphone. MS. HUGHES: Thank you for all -- letting all of us share our opinions. I live in a community in Naples, and perhaps 80 percent of us are -- comply with the masks, and we wear them and we comply with October 22, 2020 Page 30 the other mitigation measures, and there's a very small group that does not. And now that very small group -- many of them have contracted the virus. And I think that our community is very much a microcosm of what's happening across the country, in other communities, in university settings, and other school settings. So, somebody said earlier, you don't wear the mask for yourself, you wear the mask for other people. And I think we do need to listen to the health medical professionals, the scientists. I don't know -- I'm not a scientist, I'm not an epidemiologist, but I know enough to know what I don't know. And I'm going to take their word for it over somebody who is -- is, you know, any -- any other -- any other profession. And so, here's the thing. I think that all of us can take that little bit of discomfort to protect those people around us, so I urge you to extend the mask mandate. Thanks. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Christina Restrepo, followed by Dean Parave, David Rasmussen, and then Beth Sherman. Miss Restrepo, I hope we've given you enough time. I'll remind you, please mute any other audio in your room that might be from the meeting. Are you with us, ma'am? MS. RESTREPO: Thank -- yes, I am. Can you hear me? MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am. You have two minutes, please begin. MS. RESTREPO: Thank you. I'm a veterinary doctor, a specialist, and I'm speaking to ask you to please end this mandate immediately. Please read this important petition authored by three infectious disease epidemiologists. Those are specialists of infectious diseases such as COVID. These three are from Harvard, Oxford, and Stanford. They signed and authored this petition October 4th, 2020, October 22, 2020 Page 31 in Great Barrington, US. I quote: Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying at home when sick, should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should open for in-person teaching; extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed; young, low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home; restaurants and other businesses should open; arts, music, sport, and other cultural activities should resume. People who are at risk -- who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity, end quote. We had fear -- now this is my words. We had fear when this first started due to the unknown. We now know better and must do better. We do have adequate treatments. As soon as symptoms start, you can receive hydroxychloroquine, zinc, et cetera. There are multiple -- 99.9 percent effective -- efficacious protocols. Masks only delay herd immunity. You are prolonging the general population from getting over this by making people wear masks. It's okay to have higher numbers; we want that. We need herd immunity. 99.7 percent of people are fine or, at most, have flu season -- flu symptoms. It's only the 0.2 percent at most that are very vulnerable. Masks lead to more illness, including respiratory illness, headaches, migraines from rebreathing CO2 and decreased oxygen. This is traumatic to young children and the elderly. Hundreds of frontline doctors held a conference in front of the supreme court in Washington, D.C. July 27th to 28th this year. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need -- MS. HUGHES: This was banned. October 22, 2020 Page 32 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need you to wrap up your comments, if you would, please. MS. HUGHES: Okay. So that's -- I can provide that data for you to -- you must add this to the records that you're looking at. These are frontline doctors, and this is a Barrington declaration from, like I said, Oxford -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MS. HUGHES: -- Harvard -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you very much. MS. HUGHES: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you'll provide that document, it will become part of the record, if you'll email it to us. Thank you. MS. HUGHES: I will. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dean Parave, followed by David Rasmussen, Beth Sherman, and then Deborah Hermalyn. Mr. Parave, I hope I'm pronouncing that right. MR. PARAVE: Perfect. MR. MILLER: And you have two minutes, sir. MR. PARAVE: Thank you. My name is Dean Parave. Everybody's pretty much saying what I have to present today. I'm totally against this mask. I just pulled a study today from the CDC, and it says that overwhelming majority of people getting coronavirus are wearing masks. Okay? I haven't wore a mask yet, I never will, and I'm not sick. And same with the other thousand people that I know. They -- it -- your immune system is building up. I mean, I would -- that doctor said he wanted some, you know, questions. I would like to know how many people actually died of just COVID and not other illnesses with COVID. Okay? That -- you know, if this was a serious disease, I would be serious. It's a flu. It is nothing. You -- you're not going to die from it. October 22, 2020 Page 33 If -- if you can pretend to be Bruce -- that -- Bruce Jenner can pretend to be a woman and Kamala Harris can pretend to be black, pretend I'm wearing a mask. Okay? This is ridiculous, this stuff, for real. You're just -- you're killing the economy, you're making people leave here, you're making people -- like was said, I won't go into a restaurant if they force me to wear a mask. I turn around and walk out, me and my family. We'll go somewhere else that we don't have to wear a mask. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is David Rasmussen, followed by Beth Sherman, Deborah Hermalyn, and then Scott Sherman. Mr. Rasmussen, are you with us, sir? MR. RASMUSSEN: I am. Thank you very much for hosting this presentation today. I have a few comments. I'm not a medical professional, I'm an engineer by trade, but I work by science. And the science is truly there that masks do protect not only others around you but also yourself from being around others. 6-foot is just too -- it's not enough in certain circumstances. Restaurants are notorious and bars are notorious for sharing virus. We need to continue the mask and -- throughout our county, even at the farmers markets and other places where you think you're outside, you're still getting within 6 feet of other people. I have no -- numerous families that I know that -- where the -- one person brought it in, and because they don't wear masks at home, they freely give it to each other. We had my family here from Colorado. They wore masks, we wore masks for the whole week they were here whenever we were around indoors. It's just the reality. We can't deny that the -- the infection is there, and it does hurt our economy. There's no right answer to this. Let's not make it October 22, 2020 Page 34 personal, let's not make it political, let's do what's right, and let's get on with this until the virus -- the vaccine is available. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Beth Sherman. She'll be followed by Deborah Hermalyn, Scott Sherman, and then Diane Field. Miss Sherman, you have two minutes. MS. SHERMAN: It has been made clear to me, and many others, that the deep state has infiltrated Collier County. Those who don't believe in such a thing clearly don't follow political and world events. Those who do, are awake to see the corruption. We see that you are violating your oath to the Constitution of the United States of America and the State of Florida. The idealistic me would like to say to you to wake up and do some research, since our very own CDC has compared COVID to the early flu and listed the survival rate for it at 99 percent. But the realist in me knows that we have already presented these facts and figures to you many times, and you just don't care. You pack the room with one side of experts, like the Florida Department of Health, who lies through their teeth with NCH, and usually the school board, who is using our children as pawns to control the COVID narrative. We are living in an age of propaganda and censorship. I have felt that censorship at every meeting I have attended here for this issue. I have personally sat in the hall for hours on end to get my reduced time, while so-called VIPs fill seats and get unlimited time to speak. You've pushed cases and never speak of the 99 percent recovery rate. You are instilling fear into our community, and I am tired of it. Those of you who continue to vote for this mandate have become a slave to fear and are not fit to run this county. This county needs leaders who speak truths, put their name on the line for what is right, October 22, 2020 Page 35 and aren't willing to sell out to a corrupt system that is broke. Change is on the horizon, and I for one am thankful some of you have showed your true colors. As people wake up, they will see what I see, so-called leaders who want to rule the community and not protect and serve it. I invite you all to come to Freedom Festival this Saturday at 1260 Deer Run Lane, from 11:00 to 3:00. You can learn about what freedom really means to people in this community. It is free fun, and I welcome everyone listening to join us. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Deborah Hermalyn, followed by Scott Sherman, Diane Field, and Bryan Harris. Miss Hermalyn, are you with us online, ma'am? Diane Hermalyn, are you with us, ma'am? You may have to unmute. Miss Hermalyn? MS. HERMALYN: Hello? MR. MILLER: Yes. MS. HERMALYN: Yes. I'm here -- MR. MILLER: Miss Hermalyn, you have two -- MS. HERMALYN: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Miss Hermalyn, you have two minutes. MS. HERMALYN: Thank you. Commissioners, first of all, I want to say that I appreciate your taking time to review all of our comments, and I want to tell you that I am very much supportive of the mandate to ex -- and I would like you to extend this mask ordinance really for two reasons. The ordinance has actually been working. And the second reason is the risk is now exponentially growing. We all know fall and winter are approaching, and there has been a dramatic increase everywhere in the positively rate. We also know that people flock to Collier County from all over the world, and we're hoping to see them again. But with that flocking to our community, October 22, 2020 Page 36 they are bringing with them COVID cases. For these two facts alone, we -- demonstrates the need to continue the mask ordinance. But I want to spend a couple of moments just addressing some of people's concerns, and the reason they often resist having a mask ordinance. One excuse concerns the meaning of the principle of free choice. I am a strong proponent of the principle of free choice. However, this public health crisis is not about the principle of free choice, because free choice is in conflict now with an equally valid but overarching principle, the right to freedom. If an individual can choose not to wear a mask, I am no longer free. I am no longer free to enjoy public places safely or with confidence. It might -- if your choice limits my freedom and makes me a shut in, your choice denies my right to live and travel safely in the community in which I am a full-time tax paying citizen. Your choice takes away my freedom. In this case, two principles that are very important are in conflict, but your rights are not greater than mine. Your right to choice is not greater than everyone else's right to be free -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Hermalyn -- MS. HERMALYN: -- from a public health plague. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need you to wrap up your comments. MS. HERMALYN: I will. Thank you. You do not have the right to infect me, which could kill me. During a public health crisis, as during times of war, the principle of free choice does not apply. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MS. HERMALYN: Leaving it up to every man, woman for themselves -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Hermalyn -- October 22, 2020 Page 37 MS. HERMALYN: -- is dangerous. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Hermalyn, thank you. We need to move on. MS. HERMALYN: Vote to continue your ordinance. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Scott Sherman. He will be followed by Diane Field, Bryan Harris, and Dr. Joseph Doyle. Mr. Sherman, you have two minutes, sir. MR. SHERMAN: Thank you, Commissioners, for hearing us again. The last few times we spoke, I spoke science, because I am a bioengineer, studied microbiology for 30 something years, and I'm not going to go there. The absurdity of this doctor back there, whose numbers clearly didn't support his opinion, bringing in outside sources from as far away as Canada and also wearing a mask that he pulled out of a box that says this does not protect you from a virus, it just blows me away. So, thank you for the entertainment today. Now let me get into what I wanted to say. Gosh, if you are at advanced stage or obese, or have comorbidity, please protect yourself. But I heard the lady say that my mask protects her, and it doesn't, a mask doesn't work. But when did it become my problem to keep you healthy? Okay? I don't expect you to keep me healthy. I work my ass off to exercise, eat right, organic, plant-based diet. That's what I do. And when I'm looking at someone yelling at me in Publix for not wearing a mask, who's 50 pounds overweight, hasn't seen a gym in ten years, telling me I have to keep them healthy, this is a big problem for me. You guys overstepped your bounds when you made this mandate. I would really, really, really appreciate it if you October 22, 2020 Page 38 would just lift it, and let's get on with our lives. Some of the things that you could do instead -- oh, my word -- you know, why don't you have a town hall meeting, instead of these five-hour long bitch sessions we all have to sit through. If you had a town hall meeting with a moderator, where you can come and ask questions and actually engage with your citizenry, wouldn't that be more productive? Then you could have a vote without a lot of this kind of discussion. Oh, my word, you could increase the greenway. You know, let's go back to the Blue Zone stuff. Everybody eat right and exercise, that's where you're going to get people healthy. And you have the power to do that. You know, bring people -- have more festivals in Cambier Park, get people together, put taxes on fast food and chips and soda. I mean, those are the things we're talking about. Give tax breaks to wellness centers and people that are going to go out and make people be more healthy and more active. That's where you can make a difference. And you guys have been given -- you are public servants. You're not kings and queens, you're public servants that have sworn an oath to help protect us. And I've given you many, many different ways to do it. And if you want to talk further, I can give you a long list of things you can actually do that will be much more effective than a freaking mask. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Diane Field. She'll be followed by Bryan Harris, Dr. Joseph Doyle, and then Daija Hinojosa. Diane Field. Miss Field, are you with us online, ma'am? Miss Field, you may need to unmute your mike. Are you with us? Diane Field, are you with us? MS. FIELD: I'm here. October 22, 2020 Page 39 MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am. You have two minutes, please begin. MS. FIELD: All right. Thank you. Please extend the mask mandate. They work to prevent the spread of COVID. This commission has acted to protect residents from COVID in the past. Last spring, when you opened the beaches and were -- there were many visitors from the other coast, you closed the beaches. And the reason you did that was to protect your residents from contracting and spreading COVID. This commission has extended the mask mandate since July for the sole reason of helping to prevent the spread of COVID. COVID cases are already on the rise in Collier County. The rates are rising before the snowbirds flock here. Cases will, no doubt, rise once they get here in full force. It's important to have a clear mandate before the population surges here. Having a -- masks help manage expectations of seasonal visits and tourists. Many people are coming from states where masks mandate are already in place, so requiring people to wear a mask will not be unduly burdensome, and it will not be a deterrent to shopping, eating at restaurants, and supporting local businesses, as people are already accustomed to wearing masks. Of course, if a person can't wear a mask for medical or psychological reasons, they should not be required to do so. Commissioners, you have worked hard to listen to your constituency. For that, I thank you. Please continue to do the right thing and extend the mask mandate. Protect the air we share. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Bryan Harris. He will be followed by Dr. Joseph Doyle, Daija Hinojosa, and then Gary Canino. October 22, 2020 Page 40 Mr. Harris, you have two minutes, please. MR. HARRIS: Thank you. My wife told me when I left the house to make my mama proud, because she's -- she knows I can get a little emotional, and I haven't spoke at a podium since I quit preaching the Church of Christ. So if I get a little long, I'm really sorry, that's the preacher. But I will tell you that I -- everybody is -- for the -- for not extending the mask mandate, which is -- I am one, I am one for not extending the mask mandate. All of you have gotten emails from me, now you can see me in person. I send emails frequently to make sure you guys are hearing the facts that I see and the data. And the data and facts are clear. In fact, I have -- I don't know how you enter it in the record here, if I can leave these with somebody. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you'll just leave them with the county attorney. MR. HARRIS: I'll leave them with the county attorney. These are all graphs that everybody can see that show that every state in the union, as well as around the world, the countries around the world that have put in mask mandates from the get-go, saw the same increase in cases that states that didn't. Countries that didn't do a mask mandate had the same increase in cases as the countries that did. France, Italy, Spain, Germany all had huge mask mandates, huge mask mandates, lockdowns from the beginning. All these graphs show that when their mask mandate went into effect, the cases actually went up in the weeks prior -- the weeks after. So the mandate literally did nothing. All these graphs are -- I'm going to give them to you. I've actually sent them to you on email so you guys can look at them. LA, which is one of the strictest states in our -- LA, that's not a state. California, one of the strictest states in our union, had one of October 22, 2020 Page 41 the biggest mask mandates from the get-go, and they've had -- again, you'll see on the graph that when their mask mandate went into effect, the cases still climbed. So, I'll leave with you with that. To me it's just a matter of looking at the data. The data says mask mandates do not work. We need to end this mandate, and let us all go back. Because the one result of the mask mandate that makes me sick is I -- I moved here from New Jersey, and I expected to be free when I got to Collier County, Florida, and I was excited about it, only to learn that there's a mask mandate in place. And then I go around and I see people in cars with masks on, I see people walking on the beach with masks on. I think the brainwashing that's taken place is sad and sick. So, I hope I made my mama proud. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Dr. Joseph Doyle, followed by Daija Hinojosa, Gary Canino, and then Carolyn Bivans. Dr. Doyle, are you with us, sir? DR. DOYLE: Yes, I am. Can you hear me? MR. MILLER: Yes. Dr. Doyle, you have two minutes, please begin. DR. DOYLE: Chairman Saunders, I would like to request a little extra time since I am a physician. I'm actually board certified in public health. I have my medical degree. I have a degree in -- master's of public health. I am -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We -- we know who you are, so we'll consider you to be an expert, medical expert, and take a -- take a few more minutes. DR. DOYLE: Okay. I appreciate it. I'm not here really to have a war of the studies. You know, you can -- being a medical professional, I read several studies. You can find studies and data and statistics on both sides of the issue. October 22, 2020 Page 42 But I would like to say that for Collier County specifically, we have been under the 10 percent positivity rate since August 24th. And we've really been hovering around 5 or 6 percent, which is good. Now, the thing is the positive people are younger now, around age 41, than they were back in March, when we first started having our first cases, which were around 60 years of age. So we've known how to care for the people who are older and -- and, really, the cases are showing up in the younger people who don't, quite frankly, require hospitalization and they're not dying. And many of the public comment -- you've already heard all this ad nauseam. As a person who watches people, because I do population health management, it's my observation that people wear masks, but they handle them incorrectly. When they leave a building, I watch people put them in their back pocket. They handle the front and the back of them. So, some of the mask studies that show that they're not effective is because people are putting on dirty masks, so they're infecting themselves. I say that what we really need, from a hygiene standpoint, is more hand washing and the use of sanitizers. Now, as far as the people who are over the age of 60 and have underlying conditions, even phase three of the White House guidelines that came out in April say that those people still have to stay closer to home and wear masks. But to require people under the age of 60, who are otherwise healthy, to continue to wear masks is unreasonable. And, you know, we -- people talk about trying to make things safer for the snowbirds and the tourists. Well, a lot of them are retirees over the age of 60. So, guess what? When they come back here to Naples for the winter, to enjoy the sunshine -- that's great, they want to get out of the snow. But guess what? They need to stay closer to home. October 22, 2020 Page 43 And we are not here, as year rounders, here to -- for their enjoyment. They are visitors here, so they need to live on our terms, and our terms are we don't want to wear masks. They need like -- again, stay closer to home, have meals delivered, what have you. Enjoy the sunshine, great, but they need to live here on our terms, and we follow the constitution. Basically, the health department and the medical establishment are selling a panic, and the media is fueling the fear in the community. So I request that we sunset this mask mandate today. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, sir. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Daija Hinojosa, followed by Gary Canino, Carolyn Bivans, and then Jane Smith. MS. HINOJOSA: Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is Daija Hinojosa, and I am actually -- you said it right this time. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Thank you for spelling it phonetically for me. MS. HINOJOSA: I was like, sounded like. I'm actually here today because I'm going to be reading something that someone asked me to present anonymously, and so I said I would do that for her. I am a Collier County resident who has a medical reason for not wearing a mask. I choose to remain anonymous because, one, my personal health and history is private; two, I have been subjected to enough harassment to date. The mask mandate has done nothing but add to the stress of an already existing condition. I am constantly being harassed by other citizens of the county. People now think they have the right to ridicule, shame, call out others in front of entire store of people. You are not protecting all citizens by requiring this mask mandate. You have made it very difficult for people like me to live October 22, 2020 Page 44 a normal life. It is not okay for citizens to think that they have a right to traumatize other citizens. How are you protecting me? There are handicapped laws in place to prevent these kinds of behaviors. You all have thrown them out the window and left us vulnerable. Recently, the World Health Organization came with a study which showed that people wearing masks got sick more often than people who don't wear masks. And there are so many arguments on either side that there is no way anyone can say a mask mandate is necessary. You are perpetuating more problems than helping anyone. You're also supposed to be making decisions based on what's right for all of the county population, not your personal political belief. And I do have to say that I am very fortunate that I have not been ridiculed or harassed by people when I go anywhere because I tell them I don't have to wear a mask, I refuse to wear a mask. I am a healthy person. And if I was at home with the flu, I would not be asking my husband to wear a mask for me. So, I'm going to conclude that. Thank you very much. And, Bill McDaniel, I hope you get reelected. Donna Fiala, congratulations. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Gary Canino. He'll be followed by Carolyn Bivans, Jane Smith, and then Christopher Lewis. Mr. Canino, are you with us online, sir? You may need to unmute yourself. Mr. Canino, Gary Canino, are you with us, sir? I'm going to give him one more shot here. Mr. Canino, please check to make sure you're not muted. All right. I'm going to move on, and we'll circle back and try to call him again. Carolyn Bivans is your next speaker, followed by Jane Smith, Christopher Lewis, and Judy Palay. October 22, 2020 Page 45 MS. BIVANS: Good afternoon. Can you hear me? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. MS. BIVANS: Hi. My name is Carolyn Bivans. I'm a resident here in Collier County, actually a new transplant from Chicago, Illinois. I actually am a former health professional. I was a registered dietitian, but that was not only a training that I had, I actually have a degree in research biology, and I have some training in epidemiology at a graduate level. So, I actually have quite a good medical perspective on this matter. I want to thank the fellow people here that have spoken in opposition to the mandate because the facts that they presented actually have been accurate. I don't want to go back. As you can see, I've been taking notes furiously from pretty much everyone who has spoken, and I wish I could actually answer some of what they said. But much of what has been presented, as far as the fact that the masks have not had any correlation with the caseload of positivity for COVID, is accurate. The masks have not shown to be preventive. Furthermore, there really is no medical ground for wearing a device to protect somebody else. We are responsible for our own health. I want to remind people that the definition of contact for possible contraction of the disease, you have to be in prolonged contact with a symptomatic person. And, second of all, prior to the -- this year, the definition of a case was actually positivity of symptoms, and then that was combined with a positive diagnostic test. For COVID, that has not been the case. We've simply been going on the diagnostic test, of which has been of questionable accuracy, with no symptoms at all. So, we're dealing with an entirely different animal here. This is not how the medical profession has operated in the past. And I want to -- if you'd give me just a teeny bit extra time over October 22, 2020 Page 46 the two minutes, I do want to tell a story that is very relevant to this issue. We've all heard people compare this COVID-19 to the flu, the Spanish flu of 1918, which was devastating. It killed millions of people. There is an interesting research study done in 2008, and the title of it is Predominant Role of Bacterial Pneumonia as a Cause of Death in Pandemic Influenza: Implications for Pandemic Influenza Preparedness. This was published in the Journal of Infectious Diseases, Volume 198, Issue 7, on the 1st of October of 2008. And I actually did read through the whole study, and, yes, I do understand it. And the -- I'll kind of give the ballpark summary. So the pandemic flu of 1918 killed millions of people. And a research group of doctors and specialists wanted to go back retrospectively and see what happened. And, apparently, there were tissues taken from the people that had been deceased, and those tissues were stored. So these doctors and researchers took the tissues and they -- they have literally stored for almost a hundred years at the time. Took them and stained them, went to microscopes, and they looked at them. And they found there was no indicative evidence of death from influenza; it was actually from bacterial infection. Moreover, it was not just bacterial infection, it was from the bacteria that are normally found in every human being's nasal and oral cavities. And they're normally benign bacteria. So, the researchers actually looked at this and said, what on earth -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You do need to wrap up. MS. BIVANS: Okay. I'll -- I will finish in a minute. I'll be very quick. So, they looked at it, and they found that it was oral and nasal bacteria. What they didn't fail to notice -- and, by the way, one of the study researchers was Anthony Fauci -- was that mask mandate October 22, 2020 Page 47 was common in 1918 as the only pandemic influenza, apart from this in the last hundred years, that have mask mandates. What do masks do? Moist, wet environment where bacteria can grow. You're breathing in your own bacteria, and it's very dangerous. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: All right. Mr. Chairman, your next speaker is Jane Smith, followed by Christopher Lewis, then Judy Palay, and then William Tolp. I do want to take a second real quick here. I have troubleshot -- we had a couple people who couldn't connect. We looked into that, if you -- you may need to update your version of Zoom if you're having trouble connecting. I want to send that warning out to the folks at home. Jane Smith, are you with us, ma'am? MS. SMITH: Yes, Mr. Chairman. MR. MILLER: You have two minutes. MS. SMITH: May I proceed? MR. MILLER: Yes. MS. SMITH: Thank you. My name is Jane Smith. I've been an attorney for 40 years, I've been a municipal judge, and I was elected to serve on a city council in Jefferson City, Missouri. Today I'm speaking to you as a mother. My oldest son contracted -- contacted coronavirus attending his Bible study group in Illinois. He was wearing a mask, half the people at the Bible study group were not, due to the infringement on their individual rights. Two weeks later, he was hospitalized. Two days later, he was medevaced to Barnes Hospital in St. Louis, where he was on the ICU COVID unit for three weeks. COVID is not a joke. It is not a -- something inspired by the October 22, 2020 Page 48 deep state. It is real. He has -- he had no underlying conditions. He has had one leg amputated, and they're not sure now if they're going to be able to save -- save his right foot. He's been on kidney dialysis for three weeks, and he has heart arrhythmia. I totally support the masking ordinance, and I ask the commission and I ask the people in your audience to consider science and to consider also empathy. Thank you very much, Mr. Commissioner. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Christopher Lewis. He'll be followed by Judy Palay, William Rob Tolp, and then Judit Price. Mr. Lewis. MR. LEWIS: Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak. My name is Christopher Lewis, and I'm a medical researcher, and I work with over 25 physicians across the country. The thing I wanted to bring up today is this whole rumor about asymptomatic spread, which is the entire foundation of the pro-mask argument. The World Health Organization actually claims that asymptomatic spread does not occur. And the reason why they initially thought it did occur is because the people only had very mild symptoms. So, when the contact tracers went through the information to begin with, they basically just said they didn't have symptoms. But when the World Health Organization went back and did more detailed contact tracing, they found that the people who transmitted the disease did have symptoms, but they were actually very mild. So that takes away the entire argument for wearing a mask. And you should only wear a mask when you're sick, because if you don't have the virus, no, you can't spread it to anyone. October 22, 2020 Page 49 Spread comes from when a virus sheds the body. And the only time you're going to shed a virus is when you have symptoms, because that's what your body is doing, is getting rid of the virus and, therefore, you have symptoms because it's shedding. In other words, you can't catch coronavirus from someone who doesn't have at least mild symptoms. And the mask mandate gives people the illusion that the mask works, and they leave the house when they have these mild symptoms, and that's why you're seeing this spread. If we would focus more on getting people to stay home when they have the mildest of symptoms, we could limit the spread much further. That's all. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Judy Palay, followed by William Rob Tolp, then Judit Price and then Debra Baldwin. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think we're going to -- after the next speaker, I think we need to take a -- MR. MILLER: Sure. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- break for the court reporter. MR. MILLER: Absolutely. Miss Palay, are you with us online? Ma'am, you may need to unmute yourself. MS. PALAY: I am with you. Can you hear me? MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am. You have two minutes, please begin. MS. PALAY: Thank you. It's hard to believe that we're back discussing the mask issue. One does not have to show severe symptoms to be contagious. So, a 30-year-old, who seems healthy, can share the disease before he knows that he really has a bad case of it. How could I protect myself if he is contagious? Infectious disease experts agree the next four months are going October 22, 2020 Page 50 to be the most dangerous, besides everyone getting inoculated with the flu vaccine -- and, by the way, they are out of it in some of the midwestern states -- the best antidote we have is mask wearing, then social distancing, and hand washing. The experts, the doctors who deal with epidemics and pandemics are in total agreement. The flu bug and COVID are a deadly combination, especially for seniors. Our numbers have been going down. Why? Masks. All school children, stores, and us as well, follow that directive, which was simple. I wear a mask to protect you. Please show me the same respect and wear a mask to protect me. By sheer age alone, I'm in the high-risk category. I would like to get to spend time with my children and grandchildren if we can get through this safely. Now is not the time to ease up on restrictions. We can do this together for just a bit longer. We are not abrogating anyone's rights. We are protecting everyone's. Please listen to the experts so that more of us might live. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Unless there's some objection, why don't we take a break until 4:40. That work for everybody? All right. We'll be in recess until 4:40. (A recess was taken at 4:25 p.m. and resumed at 4:40 p.m.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Please take your seats. We'll reconvene the county commission meeting. If you'd call the next speaker. MR. MILLER: Absolutely, Mr. Chairman. Your next speaker is William Rob Tolp. He would be followed by Judit Price, Debra Baldwin, and then Judith Belmont. MR. TOLP: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you guys. October 22, 2020 Page 51 My name is William Rob Tolp. I'm a first veteran from the United States first Gulf War era. I also am currently on my second year serving on the Collier Super -- Soil and Water Conservation District Board, serving as chairman there, former chairman of the Libertarian Party of Collier County. I come at this not from the study aspect, but from a freedom aspect. I studied the constitution my entire life. I took some prelaw in undergrad and have a pretty -- grasp of that legal, although there -- I understand that there are also differences of legal opinion too. Plenty of that out there. But your responsibility as a governing body, my responsibility when I sit and serving in that capacity myself, I have to represent every one of the constituents who placed me in that office, and I have to allow the constitution to govern my actions. Not my political leadings, not my libertarian ideology. It has to be the constitution first. And as a libertarian, we have a model that says the constitution is to be followed all the time, every time, regardless of circumstances. And the reason for this is that when you look at history, the amount of freedom that we have possessed and possess today in this country is, bar none, the most that any other people in the entire face of the planet have ever possessed in all of human history. And what we learned from history is that by incrementalism, allowing, whether local, state, or federal governments, to start passing little restrictions here, little restrictions there, and then those restrictions never get lifted, or they get accepted as the norm, and then the next generation allows even more encroachments on their liberty, and the next generation more encroachments on their liberty. What you are doing by these mask mandates -- your power comes from the consent of the governed. And by a majority of the folks that we are hearing here today, at least, you don't have our October 22, 2020 Page 52 consent; therefore, you do not have the power to do so. So, I would urge you let the ban expire, let herd immunity start taking place. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Judit Price. She'll be followed by Debra Baldwin, Judith Belmont, and Fay Greystone. Miss Price, you may need to unmute yourself. Are you with us, ma'am? Judit Price, Miss Price, are you with us, ma'am? I'd like to give her one more minute here. Miss Price, you may need to unmute your microphone. All right. Let's move on to your next speaker here in the room. That is Debra Baldwin, followed by Judith Belmont, Fay Greystone, and then Karen Conrad. Ma'am, you can use this podium over here while that one's being cleaned. MS. BALDWIN: Good afternoon, Commissioners. This is Debbie Baldwin. Thanks for your service. I appreciate it. Well -- while I respect your position, I totally oppose the mask mandate that you have put in place. There's no federal mask mandate or state mask mandate, yet you continue to push this draconian measure in place. This is in direct opposition to our -- Governor DeSantis' statement to release all restrictions that were in place. The CDC has on their website that of the thousands of death -- deaths, there is only documentation of 6 percent being only COVID, which is slightly over 9,000. The rest consists of at least 2.6 other existing conditions. The government now has stats to confirm the various age survival rates for COVID. Every single age group has a survival rate of at least 99 percent, except for 70 above, which is close to 95 percent. The study of COVID cases the CDC -- I'm going to forego that October 22, 2020 Page 53 because that was said before. But one point is if these proponents of mask mandates believe that the masks work, then why do they not -- they don't have to worry about who isn't wearing one. Have you conducted studies to validate wearing masks to say that they work? Then why the mask mandates. The virus size is 0.125 which, by the way, is smaller than a hair. With that understanding, do you really think that China masks or other generic masks will prevent the virus from coming in or going out? We will put our money where our mouth is. For the stores which require a mask, I am -- and I am allowed to not wear one, I will continue to shop in the city. For the stores that are hardnosed about it, I know that this family will not comply, and we will stop spending money in this city. Know this, we will remember you come voting time if you continue to mandate these senseless measures. We are the silent majority, but we are silent no longer, and we speak even louder with our actions. We will remember what you are doing, and we won't forget in 2022. MR. MILLER: Your next -- we're going to try Judit Price again and then Fay Greystone. MS. PRICE: Yes, I'm here. MR. MILLER: Miss Price, one moment. MS. PRICE: I am here. MR. MILLER: One moment. After Miss Price will be Fay Greystone, then Judith Belmont, and then Alfie Oakes. Miss Price, you have two minutes, please begin. MS. PRICE: Okay. I'm sorry I didn't unmute before, but thank you for listening to me, and thank you for all work you've done. I cannot believe that this is the third time I am actually speaking October 22, 2020 Page 54 for the mask mandate. It should be a nonissue. Why are people fighting it? I don't understand it. All the scientists, medical people say it saves lives. Our numbers were dropping, now it's back again. Why are people so selfish that they don't want to accept it? It is shameful that there are people in our community looking at it as a political issue. It's a health issue; it saves our community. If we had better leadership on the top, we wouldn't be in this situation. Our supposed leaders are not leaders; they are self-serving and negligent. But you know what? They will never admit it, but they are grateful to us who wear masks because they know that we are -- our mask wearing saves their lives and their loved ones. Please, please extend the mask mandate at least until we have the vaccine available. It just is a disaster what's happening, and they don't want to accept it. I don't understand people. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Fay Greystone, followed by Judith Belmont, Alfie Oakes, and then Karen Conrath. Yes, this here is fine, ma'am. Thank you. MS. GREYSTONE: My name is Fay Greystone, Chinese redneck. People call me Chop-Chop. Okay. I work for people. I'm a housekeeper. Okay. Summertime, okay, the clothes closet, have you noticed that -- one lady, she don't want to spend money, so put 80 degree. Okay. So when I get in one time, all the clothes got mold. Here, shoulder get mold, shoes special -- special leather shoes get mold. Slimy the feeling. God, you tell me how long to take a clean. Okay. And then a house at 77, so same thing. Okay. Because of the moisture, warm, and it -- now coming to, when you wear mask, look -- I wear glass, pretty soon I -- my -- I couldn't see much stuff. That's the moisture in the -- in the clothes closet, multiply very fast, mold multiply very fast. October 22, 2020 Page 55 If I wear mask, okay, moisture plus warm, all this bacteria grow very fast. Okay. Multiply. Okay. People breathing O2, breathe out CO2. Okay. With the mask, you breathe in your own CO2 all the time. Okay? Okay. Least when your pH -- your blood pH, no balance, affect your lung, your heart, and your mental, your brain. Okay. I don't have kids. Okay -- sorry. I don't have kids, okay, but -- but for them, last time we went to COVID -- okay. Fast food. I saw the kids playing that -- all the time they are leaving, mama, "Put on a mask." You can see the eye, they change right away. Okay. For the mental -- okay. I fighting for the kids. Okay? I have no kids, I fight for kids. Hope you think about that. Oh, very fast, my -- my -- my friend, her name's Princess. Her mother in -- living with them, take care of her kids. Two to -- one is eight -- one is 12, one is eight. The end of May, godmother got a positive COVID, everybody nervous. Okay. So, the daughter say stay him to the motel. My girlfriend say, "Nonsense. I will take care of that." Okay. Guess what? Ten days later, negative. I said, "What the symptoms?" She said, "Nothing. Just breathe hard and the oh, so tired." Okay. And she's asthma -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need you to wrap up, if you would, please. MS. GREYSTONE: Okay. Very fast. Okay. So -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You already said that once. MS. GREYSTONE: Yes, sir, your majesty. Okay. That's it. That's why I coming for, I fighting for the kids. Okay? I for no kids, for me doesn't matter, but for them they cannot speak. Okay. Thank you, thank you, everybody. And, McDaniel, my husband love you. Me too. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Judith Belmont. She'll be followed by Alfie Oakes, Karen Conrad, and then John Melton. October 22, 2020 Page 56 Miss Belmont, are you online with us? You may need to unmute your microphone. Judith Belmont, are you with us, ma'am? I'll check with you one more time, miss Belmont. Are you there with us? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just circle back to her. MS. BELMONT: Yes. Okay. No, I -- I didn't know how to unmute myself. Yes, I am here. MR. MILLER: Thank you, ma'am. You have two minutes. MS. BELMONT: Okay. Thank you for revisiting the ordinance. As citizens, we all have the responsibility to not endanger the health of others. All the non-maskers at the hearing today, including the two commissioners, are being reckless with the health and safety of those around them. It is interesting that they talk about personal freedom. Well, they have made me less free. For example, I would've loved to go to the hearing in person today to speak, but I was afraid for my health because I knew I would be surrounded by the -- by the non-maskers, and potentially a virus that could make me sick or maybe have me pass it on to others. They seem to think that this whole pandemic is exaggerated or unreal, and I -- it just boggles my mind. How many people have to die before they believe it? It's amazing that some of them said, "Well, I don't know anybody who's sick." What does that matter? I believe the statistics. I personally know people who have been on ventilators. I know two people and a couple people who have died. But regardless of that, does it matter? I mean, don't you believe that they -- the news? 1 to 2 percent of the population is a lot of people in the country. Hundreds of thousands to millions could contract this before we have safety measures in place. The statistics are not made up. And what really angers me is that if they get sick, they will be the first ones to go to the doctor's October 22, 2020 Page 57 office or the hospital, and they will take up precious resources from others that are playing the game -- being -- playing it a lot more safe. We are getting people from up north, and we have -- will have an increasing incidents of COVID probably from that. And I want to conclude to -- with this statement. I'm glad a few of the anti-maskers said they would not go into businesses that require a mask. I am just the opposite. I avoid places that don't have a mask mandate. And I really am fed up with people who, like in Trader Joe's, they take off their mask, and then they say they have a preexisting condition, so, you know, no one can ask them. And the people that I saw without the mask were endangering the lives of frail people around them -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need you to -- MS. BELMONT: -- and this is unforgivable. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need you to wrap up, please. MS. BELMONT: Okay. I did. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Thank you. Your next speaker is Alfie Oakes, followed by Karen Conrath, John Melton, and then Mary Flood. Mr. Oakes, you have two minutes. MR. OAKES: Yeah. The last speaker there is a perfect example of someone that is staying at home watching the news too much. It's all -- you know, I feel so sorry for those kind of people, and I'm very thankful that our founding fathers weren't scared little people like that. It's disgusting. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's try to keep the comments not personal to our other speakers. MR. OAKES: This is personal to me, so -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No. I'm -- October 22, 2020 Page 58 MR. OAKES: Yeah. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: What I'm saying is -- MR. OAKES: Okay. I hear you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- other speakers -- you don't need to criticize other speakers. MR. OAKES: Take an extra minute so -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You can criticize us. MR. OAKES: Yeah. Well -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're used to it. MR. OAKES: I want to actually thank all you. I want -- actually, I want to thank Solis and Saunders and Penny Taylor for the extra six or seven millions dollars worth of business that you've given us at the store. Because everyone is coming there, it's cram packed with people, and my bank account thanks you. But I also want to thank Donna Fiala and Bill McDaniel for being true patriots and standing up for our country. I had -- I had Gina Tomlinson from WINK News was at my store last night doing an interview, and she said, "Why are you against the mask mandate? You're benefiting more off this than anyone else out there." And I said, "You're right, but I'm not here for myself. I'm here to protect the constitution. I'm here to try to protect things for the children that are -- that come down from" -- this is not about health. These people from the health department, these paid actors, and most of these people that called in that aren't even from here, it's a total political event. Wearing the mask is nothing more than virtue signaling. It's like wearing the swastika. It's like, okay, I conform. And that's what you guys -- and I don't know if you're -- if you're really that ignorant that you can't see what's going on, that you cannot see that very few people in this county have died from COVID-19, and you're putting all this pain on all these other businesses that, unfortunately, are too afraid not to -- not to stand up. October 22, 2020 Page 59 And I'm going to take a little bit of extra time here. I'm going to tell you that I have never worn a mask. Most of the people in my store have never, ever worn a mask. For seven, eight months, thousands of people a day, I'm kissing them, I'm hugging them, we -- there's no social distancing, and nobody's getting sick. There's -- the lying liberals make rumors that, oh, Seed to Table is a COVID safe -- place for COVID. There's nobody -- I've had 14 employees total, from the beginning, that had any type of illness. I sent them to a doctor, they gave them hydroxychloroquine with zinc and a couple -- and -- intravenously, with some vitamins, and they're back to work two days later. And these guys don't want to tell you that. The -- all the frontline doctors that come out and they -- they -- they -- because they put their lives on the line to tell you how great the hydroxychloroquine works, and they're -- they lose their jobs. You can't see what's going on? You cannot see that the government is suppressing this? Why -- why, in the first time in our -- in our country are we looking at this illness in such a different way? Like -- like the woman said over there, why -- in the flu, we never -- we never took asymptomatic people and counted them as cases. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Out of fairness to the rest of the speakers, I think Mr. Oakes has had his time. MR. OAKES: Don't let me make a good point. Right. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you -- I appreciate your comment. Take another minute or two, and then we'll move on. MR. OAKES: Okay. Why -- why all of a sudden are we -- is the government looking at this illness as so much different? Why are we looking at these cases as being -- where we count October 22, 2020 Page 60 asymptomatic people? Why do we count all the people that died of all these other illnesses? When we look at the amount of people that have died in the first ten months of this year of 2020, there's barely anymore people than died in 2019 and 2018. It's a sham. You guys should be smart enough to understand that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just take one more minute, if you would, Mr. Oakes. MR. OAKES: I just -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Unless you're finished. MR. OAKES: I'm very -- it's very personal to me. And I would like -- I wanted to come here and tell you guys if you don't -- if you don't continue the mask mandate, that I will drop the lawsuit. Because, procedurally, your lawyers know that you've messed up here, and we're going to come after you for the damages. At least -- at least a minimum of our attorney fees, which is 20 some thousand dollars. So, you have an opportunity right now to not have to pay additional attorney fees to fight against us, and then also you have an opportunity that I will drop it. If you drop it today, I will drop the extra $20,000 that you're going to have to give us for a lawsuit. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you, sir. MR. OAKES: I'd like the public to know that you have -- you have ability to do that right now. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Karen Conrath. She'll be followed by John Melton, Mary Flood, and then Dan Cook. Miss Conrath, are you with us, ma'am? MS. CONRATH: I am. Can you hear me? MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am. You have two minutes, please begin. October 22, 2020 Page 61 MS. CONRATH: Thank you to Commissioner Solis, Taylor, and Saunders for continuing your conversation in this current environment. As a writer, I'd like to speak using some imagery so people who are open to this sort of thinking can take a few minutes and imagine a shiny coin, maybe a silver dollar, that some people might call their lucky dollar. Now let's think about how that coin can affect the Super Bowl. So, the Super Bowl begins with a flip of that coin. And, as we know, heads or tails determine which team will get the ball first. It's dependent simply upon how the coin falls, and it's just a game of chance. So, in a way, the choice of wearing a mask or not is a coin flip and hoping that the results will be what you hope will happen. Heads you wear a mask, tails you do not. So, the coin is flipped, and it comes out heads, and what does that mean? It means you're betting on science and the views of educating people who affirm that wearing a mask will protect others. Yet same -- I'm sorry. Some of those people we've heard today say it's not their responsibility to protect others. Why should they? Other people should not have to protect them. That's pretty harsh, and I'm thankful that those are not the friends or people that I turn to in an emergency, because my needs would mean nothing. Continuing on that, with that analogy of the coin representing a mask, let's say that your sister chooses not to wear a mask and then takes your child to school. Your sister has COVID but does not know it because she would never knowingly put your family in danger. If she's not wearing that mask, your child has a much more likely chance to catch COVID. The outcome is potential for sickness and death and is spread from person to person through October 22, 2020 Page 62 particles and air. You are making a definitive bet that she will give your child COVID-19. And like the brave female judge who spoke, whose son was stricken with the virus, she is now in dire straights, as is her son. So when you stand next to someone at the grocery store, someone who's picking the red delicious apples, the ripe tomatoes, the brown toasted almonds, and that person is not wearing a mask, let's hope that the shopper standing next to your child is not infected. But don't worry because it's not that shopper's responsibility to protect you or your child. Why should he? Are you not being responsible for that person either? And, finally, where does the biblical dictate love your neighbor as you love yourself come into this scenario when people say they owe nothing to their neighbors? Mr. Oakes and some of the other people -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We do need you to wrap up, if you would. MS. CONRATH: I will. Nothing to give them in the way of love or care. Please remember that silver coin when you determine -- MR. MILLER: I guess we lost her, sir. I'm sorry. Your next speaker is John Melton, followed by Mary Flood, Dan Cook, and then Maureen Murphy. MR. MELTON: Good afternoon. Here we are again. Just wanted to ask Penny, what's the threshold? Because we've had a lot of people talk, come up here and, you know, speak at you, like to hear from you. What's the threshold that you see that this stops? What does it have to be? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: When we get into a -- Commissioner Taylor wants to answer. MR. MELTON: I would like to know, sir. October 22, 2020 Page 63 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I understand. If Commissioner Taylor would like to answer the question, that's fine, but we -- she can answer that question when we get into the discussion, which will conclude after -- which will start after the conclusion of the public comment. So, you've got two minutes. We'll start the clock over again. If Commissioner Taylor -- when you're finished, if she wants to answer that question, that's fine. If not, we'll move on to the next speaker. MR. MELTON: I ask it for all of you, actually. I mean, what have you guys done? What homework have you done on this, other than sit here and listen to people and make decisions? But what have you done? Have you gone out in the community? Have you guys done any studies? Do you know if these masks work? Do you have a definitive data that says that they absolutely do work? Where do you get your data? I mean, are you just making decisions arbitrarily based on feeling, or what is it? Because, I mean, when -- when does this -- I mean, we're -- we're in less 10 percent right now. The numbers are going down, absolutely. And people can say it's mask or -- I don't -- I personally don't believe that. I personally believe that this is a chicken shit virus, and that it's been blown out of total proportion. And that at 99.7 percent death rate -- how many people die of influenza every day, guys? I mean, you've got to have some sensibility here and think about -- I mean, you're causing a hornet's nest in the community. You're dividing people. I mean, when does this -- I mean, at what point -- where is the threshold that it ends? That's what I'd like to know. And I won't get that answer today, but I think you do owe that, because you guys have never come forward and said that. Ever. October 22, 2020 Page 64 You have never said that to anybody. You just continue to -- I've got 29 seconds. You continue to just make decisions, but when -- where does it stop? That's all I'd ask, where does it stop? When do you say, okay, guys, for the community, this is when we'll stop this? But you're not getting that. You already said 10 percent about two -- two meetings ago that that was going to happen, and you didn't do it. So, I'm sorry, but this is getting out of hand. You guys need to make some decisions and do right by your constituents and give them some answers. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker -- your next speaker is Mary Flood. She will be followed by Dan Cook, Maureen Murphy, and Hope Crolius. Miss Flood, are you with us online? You may need to unmute. Mary Flood? If you're with us, check your mute. Try one more time. Mary Flood, are you with us, ma'am? All right then, we'll circle back. Dan Cook will be followed by Maureen Murphy and then Hope Crolius. Mr. Cook, you have two minutes. MR. COOK: Good afternoon. So, when did freedom become such a hard concept for this board to understand? I mean, look how divisive this mask issue is becoming for us. I wonder, why are you so hell bent to cover my smile? Why do you ignore the psychological damage that your actions have on the community? Why do you continue to govern without the consent of the governed? Why do you put someone else's health above my health? I can't seem to understand your reasoning for even considering the extension of this attempt to control me. Because that's how I see it, I see this as control, compliance and obedience. Let me just state for the record that I would rather die on my feet October 22, 2020 Page 65 than to live on my knees. And I do take this mask mandate very personally, Mr. Chairman. I mean, I wonder, are you willing to get off your pedestal and physically put a mask on me? Is that what this has come down to? I didn't think so. Because that would be assault, and I would press charges on you if you did do that. So, I wonder why you're trying to force a mask on me by putting pressure on businesses. I feel like you're trying to marginalize people like myself who do not want to wear a mask. So, I'll just end with this, Mr. Chairman. I believe that you've already ignored numerous petitions by the people. You've already shown a willingness to disregard my health concerns regarding the masks, and you've shown a disregard for my rights. So, I assume that your decision is already made up, and therefore I would like to make a freedom of information request for all commissioners' oath of office in writing, if I can request that, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Klatzkow, that's a legitimate request for public records, but I'm not sure if we have those or if the supervisor of elections. MR. OCHS: I believe the state has those. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Why don't we collect those and get those to the speaker. Generally, we don't collect public records from other political bodies, but we'll make an exception to get the oaths of office. And if you'll leave your email address, we'll try to get you those. MR. COOK: Okay. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Maureen Murphy, followed by Hope Crolius, Paul Kardon, and Robert Chas. Miss Murphy, are you with us online, ma'am? You may need to unmute yourself. MS. MURPHY: Yes, I am. MR. MILLER: All right, Miss Murphy. You have two October 22, 2020 Page 66 minutes, please go ahead. MS. MURPHY: Thank you. Hello commissioners and everyone. My name is Maureen Murphy, and I've been a Collier County resident and voter for 33 years. Thank you for this opportunity to speak. I'll be quoting from two articles regarding mask usage. I sent the entire articles, plus three more, to the commissioners in advance of the meeting, and I hope you read them, as there's much more information in them than I have time to share. I hope you'll also enter those into the public record. I recommend that you allow this freedom-robbing mask mandate to expire. People who want to wear a mask may do so, but I ask you to quit trying to force the rest of us -- the rest of us to wear them. The first article is entitled masks are neither effective nor safe. And it's called A Summary of the Science, written by Citizens for Free Speech. In it -- I'll just quote a few lines. This is a review of peer reviewed medical literature. And it says: The purpose of this paper is to examine data regarding the effectiveness of face masks, as well as safety data, and when answering the question are masks effective at preventing transmission of respiratory pathogens. The article goes on to list five meta-analysis studies, concluding, quote, none of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask use and protection against influenza infection, end quote. The second article, The WHO Admits no Direct Evidence that Masks Prevent Viral Infection. This was in August of 2020, and it was quoted by -- written by Dr. Joseph Mercola. And I quote, according to the World Health Organization's June 5th, 2020 guidance on face mask usage, there's no direct evidence that universal masking of healthy people is an effective intervention against October 22, 2020 Page 67 respiratory illnesses. In addition, a policy review paper published by the CDC's Journal, Emerging Infectious Diseases, found that masks do not protect against influenza in nonhealth care settings. They then go on to outline harms and risk of mask wearing. In conclusion, clearly most people are being bombarded with mainstream media propaganda that seeks to convince you that masks are necessary to prevent the spread of COVID-19. So, it is entirely understandable that you would want everyone to wear a mask because you believe that they will save lives. However, if you carefully evaluate the evidence, it is likely you will conclude that this recommendation has nothing to do with decreasing the spread of virus. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need you to wrap up. MS. MURPHY: Most -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need you to wrap up, if you would. MS. MURPHY: Okay. I will. Most people wear masks in public regardless of the mandates, but it is entirely irresponsible and unethical for governments to mandate such a practice to anyone. In conclusion, I request that you end this mask mandate in Collier County immediately. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Hope Crolius. We're then going to circle back to Mary Flood and then Paul Kardon and then Robert Chas. Miss Crolius, I hope I'm saying your name right. no. MS. CROLIUS: You pronounced it perfectly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm from Massachusetts. I just got here about a week ago. And I came -- considering a life change, and of all the places where I was considering moving, I knew that my priority was a place where October 22, 2020 Page 68 my freedoms as an American would be respected. And not only respected but protected. And I have a friend who lives down here, and she began to send me pictures of Mr. Oakes and these meetings. And after sorting through where I would come for an extended stay and possible relocation, I came here because of the decision to -- by your governor, but also Naples had decided to not enforce this ridiculous face diaper that you see everywhere up north. I will tell you, if you want to come and see what it feels like to live in a restrictive place, where your constitutional rights are completely overridden, come to Massachusetts, and it's very different. I got -- I arrived here, the first place I wanted to go, of course, was Seed to Table, and I cried when I came out of that store. I took a little bit of video, make sure I didn't get people's faces too close up, but sent it to my friends in Massachusetts, and they were saying we're crying. It's really, really bad. And that's what is going -- it's happening all over the country. You stand head and shoulders -- or Naples does, as a national reputation for being a place for freedom, and there are many of us for whom that is a priority. I just want to -- I guess time pretty soon, but I just want to point out that George Washington and the people who fought for our freedoms and our American Revolution fought it during a smallpox epidemic. We need to take the immune system that the good Lord gave us and try to do what we can to strengthen that for Americans everywhere and not rely on bandaids like the mask and a reliance on pharmaceuticals. Thank you for letting me come here. Thanks. MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, that was our last in-person speaker. The rest of our speakers are online. We're going to circle October 22, 2020 Page 69 back and try Mary Flood, then Paul Kardon, and then Robert Chas. Miss Flood, are you with us, ma'am? MS. FLOOD: Yes. Can you hear me? MR. MILLER: Absolutely, ma'am. You have two minutes, please begin. MS. FLOOD: Okay. Great. America, home of the free because of the brave. People died for our freedoms. So here we sit, we have the COVID virus going around, flu virus going around, all these other illnesses, all these other viruses. It still comes down to the person's health, the person's well-being. The person that knows that their system has diseases or they're sick or they're not feeling well, well, then they need to stay home. As others travel about and do their daily things, it should be their choice if they want a mask or not. Nobody knows what it's like to work eight hours, seven hours, six hours in a mask in a restaurant. People -- you're stifling people's freedoms because of the scare -- of the media scaring people continuously. So, the more we scare people, the more we don't get the proper information about how masks do not work because, boy, we never hear that. We never hear anything about do the masks really work; everyone just says it does. So, for me, this is about freedom. This is about our rights as Americans. This is about our brothers and sisters that have died in wars for our freedoms. And we should be able to express it any way we want to. It's not about, oh, I'm worried about my neighbor or human kindness. No, this is about living your life. And if you are sick, you stay home. If you have an illness, then have somebody else go shopping for you. So just like if you had the flu, you don't go around other people. I'm not saying good things didn't come out of COVID, as if October 22, 2020 Page 70 you're sick, stay home from work, I think that's great, people should be doing that. So, it comes down to the person's wellness, taking care of themself, eating right. And I do thank Alfie Oakes for saying all the things that everybody else just wants to say. That's all I got. Home of the free because of the brain. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Paul Kardon, followed by Robert Chas, Robert Sanchez, and Suzanne Cherney. Mr. Kardon, are you with us, sir? You may have to unmute. Paul Kardon? Mr. Kardon, please check your mute. Are you with us, sir? He is not there, I am told. So, we're going to go on to Robert Chas, then Robert Sanchez. Mr. Robert Chas, are you with us, sir? Okay. He has left too. I'm getting messages when people drop off online here. Let's go with Suzanne Cherney. Are you with us, Miss Cherney? All right. MS. CHERNEY: Hi. Can you hear me now? MR. MILLER: Yes, Miss Cherney. You have two minutes, please begin. MS. CHERNEY: Thank you. I retired to Naples 12 years ago. For 30 years I worked closely with epidemiologists and I coauthored publications with them at the World Health Organizations. So, I want to point out just some serious bloopers I heard today. First, a speaker misrepresented WHO's views on who can spread the virus. I want to just read from the WHO scientific brief of July 9th on transmission and precautions. Quote, in brief, evidence suggests that SARS RNA can be detected in people one to three days before their symptom onset. Given that infected people without symptoms can transmit the virus, it is prudent to encourage the use of fabric face masks in public October 22, 2020 Page 71 places where there is community transmission, end quote. Second, two speakers totally misrepresented the data point from a recent CDC study that 74 percent of the infected people in the study had worn a mask. Don't people yet understand that the primary purpose of masks isn't self protection? It's to prevent the wearer from spreading the virus to others. The CDC study actually found that people who were infected tended to have been eating out a lot more at restaurants, which is of course something that people do without masks. Finally, we even heard that we should be encouraging transmission and striving for herd immunity. I hope that everyone understands that this is a very fringe view, not shared by the vast majority of the scientific community. The only safe way to get to herd immunity is with a vaccine, not by letting transmission rip, which will result in not just more deaths but in many more people getting sick, in many cases severely and long-term. It's misleading to just look at the death rate. In conclusion, I commend the members of the commission who want to continue the mask mandate. It needs to be extended. We're going into the winter, and things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, we're going to go back and try Robert Sanchez. And then after Mr. Sanchez, will be William Norgard and Deb Cruise. Mr. Sanchez, are you with us, sir? Robert Sanchez, are you with us, sir? MR. SANCHEZ: Yes. Can you hear me? MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. Please begin. You have two minutes. MR. SANCHEZ: All right. Thank you. I also am a resident of Collier County. I live here in Pelican October 22, 2020 Page 72 Bay, and I'm a retired naval officer, among other things. I served in a number of capacities. I (inaudible) teach me a lesson that, you know, you -- you have a responsibility for your -- your fellow combatants. You have -- you have people that -- whose lives, in many cases, are really dependent on your wisdom and your -- your judicious use of resources. And -- and, you know, the idea of a mask, it really does make sense to me because it -- if it -- it were not to (inaudible) to effect the -- the COVID incurring, it would -- it would at least protect the person that is a victim of it from my having it. I don't know whether I'm symptomatic or not. I have not been tested, but I don't want to take a chance on infecting somebody just because I'm unwilling to observe common sense precaution. I really truly believe that we should continue the -- the mask mandate. I don't know how long it would be continued -- continued for. I would ask that of you. And I don't know what enforcement methods would be available to -- to see that people who do use the -- the mask, but I would ask that they have a -- a life time to (inaudible) and give the individual an opportunity to use common sense and use judgment in protecting himself and his -- his neighbor, his family, those with whom he comes in contact. Tell me, if you know, how long a mandate would continue if it were to be kept in place, and if there would be any enforcement methods or suggested procedures to enforce the use of the mandate. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is William Norgard, followed by Deb Cruise, Gene Goldenziel, and Chadwin Taylor. Mr. Norgard, are you with us online, sir? You may need to unmute yourself. MR. NORGARD: Yes, sir. Can you hear me? MR. MILLER: Yes, we can, sir. Please begin. October 22, 2020 Page 73 MR. NORGARD: First I want to say it's an honor to follow a fellow military officer who's also had responsibility from men in the field and (inaudible). Here we go again. We're again hearing from all the same constitutional scholars that never passed the bar exam. Former members of the military who considered boot camp on Paris Island constructive credit for a constitutional law class taught an AVA accredited law school. Something, as a former military officer and attorney, I find particularly irksome. Here we are again, listening to members of the body politics espouse the virtue of conservative scientists versus liberal ones, when any freshman undergraduate in the country could tell you that science is general a binary affair. Here we are again, continuing to willfully disregard the fact that masks are mandated across the country to prevent one spreading the virus, not to protect the one wearing the mask. Here we are again, drawing illogical comparisons between airplane crashes, heart attacks, and cancer cases in 2019 versus COVID deaths in 2020. Here we are again, missing the most important thing for Collier County, revenue. Snowbirds won't come to spend money, long-term renters from Europe won't dare step foot in Florida. Rent prices are at least half of what they would normally be. Here we are again, where we are essentially making the argument that we are really free. What we're really free from is giving a damn about our fellow citizens. I conclude. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Deb Cruise, followed by Gene Goldenziel, Chadwin Taylor, and James Kelly. Miss Cruise, are you with us, ma'am? MS. CRUISE: Yes, I am. MR. MILLER: You have two minutes, ma'am, please begin. October 22, 2020 Page 74 MS. CRUISE: Thank you. Please continue the mask mandate. The mask mandate is exactly what will keep businesses open and successful. Without masks, as illness increases in severity and hospitals become overwhelmed, businesses will have to close completely in order to manage the illness. We can avoid that and keep businesses and the economy rolling through continuing to require masks. A mask mandate is exactly what will keep businesses open and thriving. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Gene Goldenziel, followed by Chadwin Taylor and then James Kelly. Gene Goldenziel, are you with us, sir? You may need to unmute yourself. Mr. Goldenziel, are you with us, sir? I'm going to try him one more time, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Goldenziel, you may need to unmute your computer or your smart device. Are you with us, sir? MR. GOLDENZIEL: Yes. Could you -- could you hear me, sir? MR. MILLER: I can hear you now, sir. You have two minutes, please begin. MR. GOLDENZIEL: Thank you. I ask the commissioners to continue the mask mandate. I recognize that will not convince those who do not believe that masks reduce the probability of COVID-19. The purpose of government is to protect the public welfare. I ask the commissioners to restrict my liberty by continuing the mask mandate. It's a small price to pay to protect your health and the health of my neighbors. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Chadwin Taylor, and he will be followed by James Kelly. Mr. Taylor, are you with us, sir? Chadwin Taylor? You may October 22, 2020 Page 75 have to unmute yourself, sir. Are you with us? I'm going to give him one more attempt. Chadwin Taylor, are you with us, sir? Can you hear me? All right. I'm going to move on and try James Kelly. James Kelly, are you with us, sir? You may need to unmute yourself. Mr. James Kelly? James Kelly? All right. Mr. Chairman, at this point I've lost my internal communication with my Zoom people. I don't have any more names at this moment. I'm -- they're hearing me right now, so hopefully they'll feed me some more. MR. KLUCKHUHN: Hello? Can you hear me? MR. MILLER: Is this Mr. Taylor or Mr. Kelly? MR. KLUCKHUHN: Neither. But you requested me to unmute on this machine a couple of times. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Hello? MR. KLUCKHUHN: This is a -- this is Gary Kluckhuhn. You want me to mute again until you -- MR. MILLER: No. MR. KLUCKHUHN: -- get one -- MR. MILLER: Gary, please go ahead, sir. Could you say your last name again for me? MR. KLUCKHUHN: Kluckhuhn. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Sorry. MR. KLUCKHUHN: Gary Kluckhuhn. MR. MILLER: All right. Mr. Kluckhuhn, please -- UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Calling in to speak. MR. MILLER: Please go ahead. And, Mr. Taylor, would you please wait for Mr. Kluckhuhn, please? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Hold on one second. MR. KLUCKHUHN: Okay. You know, you guys got a tough October 22, 2020 Page 76 one here, but we've been living with this thing and the differing opinions on it and positions. If you were to leave it to whereby if a business or individuals chose to go where the mask was required and for patrons if you wanted to go into a store where it was required and only those stores go there and if a place doesn't want to have it and you choose to go there, that's your choice too. Our freedoms are important. The protection from the virus is important, but our free will is the number one thing we need to work with. And we could do it very, very respectfully, as we have been doing it. When I go to ABC, I put my mask on. When I go to Oakes, I don't worry about it. And I haven't gotten it yet. I'm at high risk, but the freedom of having to wear a mask -- I feel sorry for the people that have to wear it, I respect the ones that consider it essential, and I wouldn't want to call somebody to be uncomfortable because I'm not wearing it. Thank you. MR. MILLER: All right. I do believe we have Mr. Chadwin Taylor. Mr. Taylor, if you will unmute again, we are ready for you at this time. He will be followed by James Kelly, then Daniella Dye. Mr. Taylor, are you with us, sir? MR. TAYLOR: Yes, I am. Can you hear me? MR. MILLER: Absolutely, sir. Please begin. You have two minutes. MR. TAYLOR: Thank you. You know, first, thank you, commissioners, for allowing me to speak today again. I'd like to start out with a question, and I pose this to the commissioners and to the public. At what point do we consider personal responsibility? Now, there's this whole narrative of my mask protects me, it protects you. You know, and I can tell you that never before in my life -- I'm 43 years old, and I've never expected anyone else to take October 22, 2020 Page 77 care of my health. That is my personal responsibility. And more and more, as we continue to enforce these mandates, it's feeling more and more like big brother. And, you know, we have to remember that, you know, health is a very personal decision, how we manage that. From what we eat to what we wear, how we control our breathing, all of it, that is our personal choice. Okay? And if someone else is afraid of me or someone else getting them sick, take personal responsibility, assess how at risk you are, and stay home. Stay -- take the precautions yourself. Do not expect other people to take precautions for you to protect your health. And I can tell you there's a giant disconnect in the public between what -- the understanding of how to wear a mask, and more specifically the actual ordinance in place. And I can tell you, because -- I have a son who's autistic. He's nonverbal and he has sensory processing challenges. At the beginning of all this -- he has three therapists, an occupational therapist, behavioral therapist, and a speech pathologist. And we -- they worked with him for a month trying to get him to wear a mask, and I can tell you for him it's like torture. And the fact that these businesses do not understand what the -- the ordinance is, they don't understand that kids under nine are exempt from it, and people with medical exemptions, my son is absolutely one of them. And my wife has been kicked out of businesses for this, and it's because your lack of education on the actual ordinance to businesses and people's -- people's just lack of education on -- on all of this. And that -- that's what -- these unintended consequences of mandating masks, that's what it causes. It causes discontent amongst our community. Look at how divided the people are that are speaking. Look how passionate people are. This is the divide that you're continuing to enforce. Why don't we take personal October 22, 2020 Page 78 responsibility? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We do need you to wrap up. MR. TAYLOR: Allow people to -- allow people to take personal responsibility, and let's get back to some level of normalcy. Thank you for your time. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is James Kelly, followed by Daniella Dye, Morris Herstein, and Susan Bookbinder. Mr. Kelly, are you with us, sir? You may need to unmute yourself. James Kelly? Okay. I know we have Mr. Kelly online. We've -- MR. KELLY: Okay. So, I unmuted -- MR. MILLER: There you go, sir. Mr. Kelly, you have two minutes. MR. KELLY: Thank you. I apologize for that. Yes, couple (audio distortion) said something that -- he asked you to take away his liberty so that he would be safe. One of the founders -- and I don't remember which one it was -- said that those who seek to security in exchange for liberty deserve neither. So, lots of medical information is coming your way, and lots of patriotic information is coming your way. And I wish you a clear mind and a sense of what the constitution means when you make your decision today. Another comment was saying that -- somebody who favored the masks said that all these constitutional scholars who never took a class in constitution, what do they know? Well, let me tell you what we know. We know that the constitution in America is a very small document. We can all carry it in our breast pocket. We're all citizens, and we have an obligation to be familiar with the constitution. And this type of order goes against that. Because what it is, is an order and, from what I understand, you're not allowed October 22, 2020 Page 79 to make orders, to make ordinances. And I don't know the differences, I just know that the -- you know, the tag line for the debate. Your staff was presented a lot of information, and I heard words like it could help or it has no measurable economic effect. Well, tell that to the people that are being laid off, that there's no economic effect, and tell that to people whose businesses are struggling and say there's no economic effect, or closed or worse. And, also, as far as economic effect goes, how about you ask your staff to measure the economic effect for the areas where the mask mandate is not in place, compared to where the mask mandate is in place in Collier County. And I think you're going to find that Fifth Avenue South is probably doing a little bit better, on average, than the rest of the county. And then the data that was presented today as a request from Mr. McDaniel, I think, is persuasive. And I would ask that your staff -- and you might be able to do this pretty quickly before your meeting, is to average out all of the different counties that was presented in the chart. And I think you're going to see, with or without mandates, with or without stay-at-home orders, the general motion of the curve was up, flattened, and then down, generally speaking. In other words, we flattened the curve. We accomplished the mission. It's over, and we need to move on. And we need to put more emphasis on Liberty than we need to worry about the spread of the virus. Think about it -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We do -- MR. KELLY: Peterson -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We do need you to -- MR. KELLY: Says look -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- wrap up. October 22, 2020 Page 80 MR. KELLY: Go ahead. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need you to wrap up, if you would, please. MR. KELLY: If you walk out your house, the world is trying to kill you, from viruses, to predators, to cars, to a hole in the street. Stop. It's more important for us to concentrate on individual liberty than it is for us to allow a continuation of fear and separation, which is what communists and Nazis did to accomplish their evil goals. So good luck to you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Daniella Dye, followed by Morris Herstein, Susan Bookbinder, and Eve Gron. Miss Dye, are you with us, ma'am? Daniella Dye? You may have to unmute yourself. We've released you to speak. Miss Dye, are you with us? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: How many more speakers do you have there? MR. MILLER: I'm working on that, sir. It kind of fluctuates. We've got about -- I think it's about 14 at this point. I'll get a hard number for you after this. COMMISSIONER FIALA: It just keeps getting bigger. MS. DYE: Hi, I'm here. I just wanted to give you a moment to finish and -- MR. MILLER: Thank you, Miss Dye. We're now ready for you. You have two minutes. MS. DYE: Perfect. Thank you. So, I've been listening to everybody speak today, and they've all brought up points that I wanted to say myself, so I don't want to keep reiterating the same information. In a time of disruption, it's always good to say thank you to the things that you were grateful for, so I want to thank you to everybody for having another meeting. October 22, 2020 Page 81 I also want to thank my teachers in middle and high school for teaching me to think for myself. I appreciate the fact that they constantly asked me to ask questions of others, including who, what, when, why, where, and how. They asked me to continually look at information and look at it from both perspectives. I am extremely grateful for that. I am extremely grateful for them. I will actually go back and reach out to them today. I'm also grateful for the fact that I was able to read a map. Because I looked at it, and I didn't find any state that was labeled fear, and I refuse to live in a state that doesn't exist. I think it's great that we can sit here and to -- have a discussion about people, and to sit there and look at the who, what, when, why, where, hows. I don't understand how this particular ordinance is going to protect anybody. If it's already been deemed unenforceable if it's already been deemed essentially unenforceable -- we'll stick with that. But how are we supposed to sit there and continue to have a mandate? How do we sit there and continue to encourage something? The only thing that I see being encouraged is the distance between people. And I don't mean physically, I mean in the emotional and communal standpoint where you have people that feel like they've been deputized to sit there and have discussions and to sit there and call people out and delegitimize medical exemptions because they don't feel that it applies to somebody, or to sit there and feel like they're so compelled to make a discussion and distinction about somebody's medical state or mental state that they have the ability and right to just approach them and publicly assassinate their character and health choices. So, I don't see where all people are represented in this particular mandate. I don't see how it's going to be effective, and I don't see what it is that we're trying to obtain from this. I feel like it's October 22, 2020 Page 82 something that is just furthering the divide with people. Where -- if you keep the mandate, letting it exhaust itself, we don't pursue it any further, people that want to pursue safety measures of wearing a mask are able to. We have to ask ourself if we're doing this out of compliance or if we're doing this out of concern. Many people that have been speaking today in favor are doing it out of both. They're doing it because they are concerned, but they're doing it out of compliance as well. So, again, I'm grateful for the ability to look at all different avenues of information. I also have to thank my college professors, especially in statistics, when we went over the fact that numbers don't lie but people do. The questions that are asked to obtain the numbers, the review of the numbers afterwards, and the content that you get from it are going to be manipulated. Those things are things to take into consideration when reviewing data and making considerations for an entire group of people. I don't know if I still have more time, but I'll wrap it up and say thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, we have eight speakers left at this point, all online. Your next speaker is -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: Are people allowed to call in after these eight? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're trying to accommodate people that are coming home from work. This -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, I see. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's just see how it goes. That's generally not what we do, but I -- we've been criticized for having this meeting during the day, when people can't call in after work, and October 22, 2020 Page 83 we're taking care of that. MR. MILLER: I have alerted the Zoom people to continue to accept registrations. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We'll cut that off in just a few minutes. MR. MILLER: Okay, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We do have to have our debate as well. MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. Your next speaker is Morris Herstein, followed by Susan Bookbinder, Eve Gron, and Gary Canino. Mr. Herstein, are you with us, sir? You may need to unmute your -- your device. Morris Herstein? Sir, are you with us? I'll try one more time at this juncture. Mr. Herstein, you may need to unmute your device. Are you with us, sir? Okay. Getting a message. All right. We're going to circle back around then. My Zoom people are having trouble connecting with Mr. Herstein. I'm going to move on then to Susan Bookbinder. My Zoom people will try to get her ready to go. Susan Bookbinder. Miss Bookbinder, are you with us, ma'am? MS. BOOKBINDER: I am. First, I'd like to thank you for coming and doing this again and again and again. It is very much appreciated by those of us who feel strongly that the mask mandate should continue. I have multiple sclerosis, and therefore I have a weakened immune system. But I do go outside, which for the last couple of months have been very, very rare. When I see other people walking around without masks, I'm offended. How negligent they are. Masks stop others from spreading COVID. I don't understand how anyone can be so self-centered that they don't care about possibly transmitting the October 22, 2020 Page 84 disease to someone else who might have a weakened immune system, such as myself. One of the reasons I love Naples is that it's so philanthropic, but maybe not everybody cares about their neighbors. Someone casually said to me in passing that not wearing a mask is, quote, involuntary manslaughter. And I thought that was pushing it a little bit, so I looked it up in the dictionary. Involuntary -- this is a quote. Involuntary manslaughter is defined as the unintentional death of an individual as a result of another person's negligent action. We have to stop this involuntary manslaughter, and we have to keep our mask mandate. Thank you all very much. MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, we're going to try Morris Herstein again and then Eve Gron and then Gary Canino. Mr. Herstein, I think we have our problems worked out with you. Are you hearing me, sir? Are you with us? Mr. Herstein? All right. We have him registered on two different devices, we've unmuted both of them. Mr. Herstein, you may need -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's just move on to the next speaker. MR. MILLER: Yes, sir, we will move on. Heads-up, guys, we're going to go to Eve Gron, then Gary Canino, and then Steven Bracci. Miss Gron, are you with us, ma'am? Eve Gron? Are you with us, ma'am? MS. GRON: Yes, yes, I am. MR. MILLER: Please begin, ma'am. You have two minutes. MS. GRON: Okay. Thank you for allowing me to speak, although a lot of things have been said already. I want to say that the virus -- the virus is always going to be October 22, 2020 Page 85 around, and it's never going to go away. It has been -- coronavirus has been around 700 years, and it's not going to go away. So, with this saying, like any other viruses, we know what to do. We have lived on this plant long enough to protect ourselves without the masks. One more thing I would like to bring up is children. Masked children are at school. That -- maybe we don't realize that those children -- masked children at school going to be -- that's very detrimental for their mental state, of course. According to immunologists and psychologists, we're creating intimidated children with problems. It's going to be a generation, pretty much, of scared followers that have no identity and no individualism created at school. So, this is in our future. I want to draw your attention to it, it's very, very important. And now I want to jump quickly to a law. The federal law, Title 18, tag 14, the code of safety. It says: Where county public officials are required to proclaim the termination of mask mandates and all emergency restrictions where there is no emergency. And there is no emergency. There's no federal emergency, there is no state emergency, no county emergency. So, you public officials, are required to proclaim the termination of mask -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need -- MS. GRON: -- mandates and stop -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need you to -- excuse me. We need you to -- MS. GRON: Today you have to -- you are required -- (Simultaneous crosstalk.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need you to wrap up, if you would, please. MS. GRON: -- otherwise you -- you are against the law. And, thank you, I wish you all health and -- October 22, 2020 Page 86 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Gary Canino, followed by Steven Bracci, and then Steve Mason. Mr. Canino, are you with us, sir? You may need to unmute your device. Mr. Canino, are you with us, sir? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's move on. MR. MILLER: All right, sir. Steven Bracci -- wait. Mr. Canino, was that you, sir? MR. CANINO: Yes, Gary Canino. MR. MILLER: You can begin, sir. Two minutes. MR. CANINO: Okay. Thank you. I support the words and advice from scientists, medical professionals. I don't accept anecdotal information and comments from laymen, backed by little bit more than enthusiasm. I don't support political consensus bias, which looks for ways to support preconceived ideas over public health. I'm proud of the people who listen to and read the opinions of scientists and medical professionals. I don't know why that would not be viewed as -- as a positive thing. People keep talking about the constitution. I look at it this way. You can't yell fire while not wearing a mask in a crowded movie theater, as it shows a disregard of the health and well-being of others. I'd like to thank you, because in a meeting like this -- I was once on a board with 10,000 members. For some reason, meetings tend to have the strongest support, even though it may be the smallest number of total people, from naysayers. I'm proud of the fact that in the past you've stood strong, and you've continued to mandate the wearing of the mask. Thank you for protecting my health and giving me the opportunity to speak today. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. October 22, 2020 Page 87 MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Steven Bracci, followed by Steven Mason, Judith Belmont, and then Paul Cardon. Mr. Bracci, are you there, sir? Steven Bracci? Mr. Bracci, you may need to unmute your device. Are you with us, sir? MR. BRACCI: Yes, I'm here now. Can you hear me? MR. MILLER: Yes, Mr. Bracci. You have two minutes, sir. MR. BRACCI: Thank you. On July 14th, Commissioner Saunders tried to circumvent the four-fifths supermajority vote for an emergency ordinance by instead trying to go with an emergency order. It's clear that the county can only do an emergency ordinance by four-fifths vote. Mr. Klatzkow, the county attorney, said you can do it by emergency order under a different statute. That different statute is 252.46, which says you can enact an emergency order if you do it in accordance with Chapter 120, which is the public -- which is the administrative procedure act. That act specifically says that if you're going to enact an emergency order or rule, which are synonymous, you can -- you cannot have any such emergency order longer than 90 days. And we are past 90 days now. It also states that you are not allowed to renew an emergency order at all, any period of time, unless you have fully engaged in full rule making, rather than emergency rule making. Mr. Klatzkow has been informed of this. He knows this. Under Rule 4-1 of the rules of the Florida Bar, he has an ethical duty of competency, which means he has to research both the law and the facts and properly advise the board. You have no authority to enter into an emergency order today. Period. And you never had the order -- authority to do it by a four fifth -- by a three-fifths vote back on July 21st. So, ironically, Commissioner Solis, when he's criticizing October 22, 2020 Page 88 Commissioners Fiala and -- and McDaniel for undermining the -- the integrity of the board by not wearing masks -- Mr. Solis, with all due respect, you've undermined the integrity of the board -- and you too, Mr. Saunders, by -- by trying to gin up a way to avoid the four-fifths requirement, which is procedurally required in order for you to strong -- you know, just to strongarm everyone -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Bracci, we need -- MR. BRACCI: -- into wearing masks. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need you to wrap up. MR. BRACCI: Shame on you, Commissioner Solis, and shame on you, Commissioner Saunders. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you, sir. MR. MILLER: All right. Your next speaker is Steve Mason, followed by Judith Belmont, Paul Kardon, and then Amy Veneziano. Mr. Mason, are you with us, sir? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have the four more speakers, let's cut off. We've given people almost an hour to -- MR. MILLER: We just stopped taking them, and I've got like one -- excuse me one, two, three, four, five, six people left. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. MR. MILLER: Okay? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any objection from the board? COMMISSIONER SOLIS: A few of them you've called before, right? MR. MILLER: Not the names I'm doing right now. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, okay. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Any objection from the board to cut off signing up? (No verbal response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. October 22, 2020 Page 89 MR. MILLER: Okay. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Four or five more speakers, and then we're going to take a short break, and then we'll come back to deliberate. MR. MILLER: Okay. Next is Steve Mason, followed by Judith Belmont, Paul Cardon, Amy Veneziano. Mr. Mason, are you with us, sir? You may need to unmute your device. MR. MASON: I am here. MR. MILLER: Mr. Mason, you have two minutes, please begin. MR. MASON: Thank you. I'm a Florida licensed physician, trained at Harvard and Johns Hopkins, and a Collier County resident. I completed a research fellowship in infectious disease at NIH when Dr. Fauci was head of the division, and I am angry. I'm angry about needless lives lost already, and needless loss yet to come. Wearing a mask is a measure of decency, responsible behavior, and concern for others. I find it interesting that many people who denounce masks also claim to believe in personal responsibility, yet they don't understand or want to understand that going without a mask in public is just like driving while drunk. The Institute of Health Metrics estimates that 95 percent of Americans, if they just wore a mask, that's all, just wear a mask, would save nearly 100,000 lives in this pandemic. A review of 172 studies by the British Medical Journal Lancet found that face masks significantly reduce virus transmission. And as a recent study estimated that mask mandates could have avoided -- averted 230,000 coronavirus cases already. I'm amazed that nonscientists chose to ignore facts and proven data, yet have the authority to literally save lives, and do not exercise October 22, 2020 Page 90 this authority. Masks protects jobs and our economy. Goldman Sachs estimates that a national mask mandate could substitute for lockdowns that would shrink the economy by 5 percent. Think about it. Our choices were never masks or jobs, but masks for jobs. The more employees and customers who wear them, the more businesses can stay open and flourish. Even if your concern is only for the economics of it, the choice is still clear. Masks matter. The head of the NIH said this week, people are tired of this, but the virus is not tired of us. A Nobel Prize winner reminds us that in the struggle against new diseases, it's our wits versus their genes. Commissioners, please use your wits against the coronavirus genes and continue the Collier County mask ordinance. Your constituents' futures, indeed our very lives, are in your hands. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, sir. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Paul Cardon, followed by Amy Veneziano, Flannery Dziedzic -- I think I'm saying that close to right -- and Steven Veneziano. Mr. Cardon, are you with us online, sir? You may need to unmute your device. DR. CARDON: I am here. MR. MILLER: You may begin, sir. You have two minutes. DR. CARDON: Okay. I am a physician. My previous or last job, I was the medical director of a hospital very much like Naples Community Hospital. This is deja vu all over again. For the third time in as many months, we're debating the same issue, whether or not wearing a mask to protect others, as well as ourselves, is important enough to be mandatory. What has changed since we last met? Data has been collected and reported, showing that communities mandating mask wearing October 22, 2020 Page 91 have lower rates of COVID-19 than communities where it is optional. We have seen vividly, as the president set an example for the country by holding mask-free events, leading to a significant number of those attending the events to test positive for COVID-19. We are not turning the corner. We are entering a time of year when the incidents of COVID-19, as well as the seasonal flu, are anticipated to and actually are rising. The pandemic is far from over. The most optimistic outlook, assuming the arrival of a safe vaccine that can be accepted by the populous and be widely distributed, is a -- to return us to something resembling normal is a minimum of nine months to a year away. Hopefully, the sooner we accept that, the sooner we will stop having these monthly meetings, debating the same issues again and again. We need to be patient to avoid becoming a patient. To plagiarize the editorial from today's Naples Daily News, in the words of the ancient philosopher Yogi Berra, it ain't over till it's over. Commissioner -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We need you to wrap up. DR. CARDON: Unfortunately, it ain't over. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next spearer is Amy Veneziano, followed by Flannery Dziedzic, Steven Veneziano, and then we have a medical person that I guess has been trying to join for a while, Rebecca Smith from the Medical Society. I assume -- she was registered. She hasn't been able to join until now, sir. Okay. I understand now that Amy Veneziano is gone, so we'll try Flannery Dziedzic. And I hope I'm saying that right, sir. It's D-Z-I-E-D-I-C [sic]. Are you with us, sir? You may need to unmute your device. MS. DZIEDZIC: I am here. My name is Flannery Dziedzic. October 22, 2020 Page 92 If you could just give me one moment, I am about to be home. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's move on to the next speaker. We'll -- MR. MILLER: Ma'am, if you'll mute again, we'll come back to you. My apologies for not getting the gender right there. Steven Veneziano, followed by -- MS. DZIEDZIC: No worries. MR. MILLER: -- Rebecca Smith. Steven Veneziano? Mr. Veneziano, are you with us, sir? You may need to unmute your device. All right. Now I'm told that he is gone. They are dropping like flies, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have two more speakers. MR. MILLER: Yes. Rebecca Smith, and then at that point we'll come back to Flannery. Rebecca Smith. Miss Smith, are you with us, ma'am? You may need to unmute your device. DR. SMITH: (Audio distortion.) MR. MILLER: Miss Smith, is that you? DR. SMITH: Hello, I am -- MR. MILLER: Is this Rebecca Smith? DR. SMITH: Yes. Are you able to hear me? MR. MILLER: Now we can, ma'am. DR. SMITH: Yes, it is. MR. MILLER: Please begin. DR. SMITH: Okay. Chair, commissioners, thank you. I am Rebecca Smith. I am a physician practicing in Collier County. I'm actually a hospice and palliative care doctor. I've been in town for ten years, and I have been busier than I expected during this time of year. I'm also a member of the board of the Collier County Medical October 22, 2020 Page 93 Society and a member of the COVID-19 Task Force. April Donahue, our executive director, presented a position of the Collier County Medical Society and Task Force earlier this -- today. I am independently requesting that you extend the mandate to wear masks in Collier County. The current order has helped keep our communities safe. However, we are still at risk of a resurgence if we let our guard down too soon. Our youth are back at school, many businesses are open to full capacity, and the northerners have begun to return for season. I feel we need to give this phase of opening some more time to normalize so we can see the effects before we cease the mask-wearing mandate. I will appreciate your strong considers. Thank you. MR. MILLER: All right, Mr. Chairman. And now the only person I had left, Flannery Dziedzic, who said she needed more time, she has now -- oh, she's now back. Miss Dziedzic, are you with us, ma'am? Flannery -- I hope I'm saying that close to correct. Are you with us, ma'am? If you're there, ma'am, you need to unmute. We're short on time. Flannery, are you with us, ma'am? I think I hear her. MS. DZIEDZIC: Hello? MR. MILLER: Yes, Flannery. How do you say your last name, ma'am? MS. DZIEDZIC: Flannery Dziedzic. MR. MILLER: You have two minutes, ma'am, please begin. MS. DZIEDZIC: Okay. MR. MILLER: Please begin, ma'am, Flannery. MS. DZIEDZIC: Yes. Okay. So, my name is Flannery Dziedzic, and I am an Army veteran living here in Naples. I moved here with my husband a little over a year ago. I actually moved here from Georgia right after I got home from Afghanistan. October 22, 2020 Page 94 I just wanted to tell you how -- my personal views on the mask mandate for Collier County. And I personally believe it to be a gross government overreach to force a mandate onto your constituents. A study done in 2008, with Dr. Fauci being one of its authors, found prolonged mask wearing potentially causes bacterial pneumonia. And I have links to that study. Regardless of the study and the plethora of other studies, some concurring, obviously, with masks being harmful and then others contradicting, we know that the science is constantly changing. We have also seen that the vast majority of people who have caught COVID-19 have been avid mask wearers. My own sisters back in Georgia wore masks and gloves and still got sick. The link below -- I have some links to this as well. A study by the CDC stating that roughly 70 percent of the participants always followed CDC guidelines with social distancing and mask wearing, and they still caught COVID-19. My husband and I, we never wear masks, and we have yet to get sick. My father, he just turned 70 this past weekend, and he never wears a mask, and he has not gotten sick either. But I say this with great respect to everybody here, and I want to thank you all for the service that you do for our county and our awesome, great state of Florida. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. All right. Let's close the public hearing. I would suggest that we take a brief break so we can collect our thoughts and come back at quarter after 6:00. Would that be sufficient? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We're going to be in recess until 6:15. (A recess was taken at 5:57 p.m. and resumed at 6:15 p.m.) October 22, 2020 Page 95 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: The meeting of the county commission will please come to order. I, quite frankly, still am not sure how I'm going to vote on this. I will tell you I'm leaning towards extending the order. But in anticipation of the meeting I went through the existing order and I had it redrafted. So, I'm going to distribute to you -- to each of you a new draft. The order is essentially the same, with some changes that make it a little bit more clear and also deal with the social distancing aspect of trying to prevent the spread of COVID. So, as we're discussing this, this is the -- if I'm going to proceed with a positive vote on this, it will have to be something similar to what I've -- what I'm handing out. Again, the changes are highlighted in yellow. And with that, Commissioner Fiala, your light is lit up. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, it is. A couple questions that I had. Jennifer Edwards had -- I'm sure she called everybody. And she said something about please keep the mask in effect during elections, through the election, and I was wondering if that could even be done. I think I asked -- have to ask Jeff if we can -- as far as the people wanting to vote, who are going over to the election's office, no matter which office they have, can we -- I told her you should be able to just post something that says to enter this area you must wear a mask. There's nothing that says -- even if we have no mask mandate, there's nothing that says you can't say you have to -- you can't wear a mask if there's something that says you can. So I figure let's see what we can do. Can we do that? But it's just like in all the election polling places. MR. KLATZKOW: Well, the supervisor can do it if she's -- October 22, 2020 Page 96 COMMISSIONER FIALA: I can't understand you. MR. KLATZKOW: The supervisor of elections can do it. She doesn't need us to do that. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: But that's not the issue, ma'am. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Pardon me? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: That's not your -- that's not the issue. The issue is not that people won't come in, the issue is she won't have poll workers because they feel -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, that's right, that's right, exactly. So, she feels that the poll workers -- thank you. She feels that the poll workers won't want to work unless there's a mandate that says they have to wear masks. And I think that's fair. You know, we're trying to get everybody to vote that will vote. And so, is -- is that something that can be done? And the day after elections, stop it, but just in those polling places. MR. KLATZKOW: I mean, we can do that, ma'am. I just don't know why the supervisor can't do this on her own. I mean, she controls her own buildings. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, you mean -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I would presume that when there's a polling place selected, that she would be in control of that polling place. MR. KLATZKOW: I presume that, yes. I mean, if she needs our support on that, the -- the board, we could certainly do that. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Maybe they can put signs out front that to enter this area, masks must be worn or something. MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. I mean, I know -- I know that her poll workers tend to be older. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor? October 22, 2020 Page 97 COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, I just wanted to respond to -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, okay. Commissioner McDaniel. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I still have another comment, couple comments. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's all right. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: Just on the mask comment thing, I voted in Immokalee yesterday, and there's a mask requirement on the door before you come into the county facility and all the way through the process. So, it -- I understand the -- I understand the supervisor's request. She actually left me a voice mail last night as well. But I think the county attorney's correct, she's got control of the facilities and those polling places. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Good. I can understand her request, because people lined up -- I was watching it the other day, and, you know, they -- there's so many people in one area. I can understand her feeling that the poll workers would like a mask there so -- okay. So, it can be done. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: It is being done. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Good. Other question. Now -- now, the businesses can always require masks, right? I mean, even if we don't have a mask ordinance in place, you can say you must have a mask in order to enter my business. And I believe that that's correct, unless you tell me it's incorrect. People can always wear a mask. Doesn't make any difference if we have to have an ordinance or not. What's interesting is that we have two cities right here -- Penny lives in one of them. You don't have to wear a mask there. There's October 22, 2020 Page 98 no mask ordinance, but their restaurants are doing fine and everything because they're -- they don't have any masks. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Oh, yes, they do, ma'am. COMMISSIONER FIALA: And this is -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes, they do. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's do one at a time. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. This is just -- and then also the -- they don't have any mask mandate on Marco, and -- and nobody is asking for a mask mandates in either one of those places, that I know of. At least not in Marco, because I don't get any letters for that. And the figures are the same, that's the big thing. The figures are the same whether you're wearing a mask or not wearing a mask, whether you're requiring it or not. Now, I was -- I thought, you know, the selling point would be if when you were required to wear a mask, the numbers would drop greatly. They haven't even dropped a little. So, I -- I'm -- COMMISSIONER SOLIS: They haven't -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: I have to make that statement. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: They haven't dropped a little? Is that what you said? COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's right. Compared to other -- the other cities. And the cities in our county, as well as Lee County and Collier -- Charlotte County. Nobody wears -- has a mask mandate but us. I thought, you know, maybe we ought to rethink this. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor, did you have some comment you wanted to make? COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: Yes. Even though there's not a mandate in the city of Naples, the restaurants, many, many of them, especially on Fifth Avenue, have a, you know, requirement for October 22, 2020 Page 99 masks. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, that's fine. And I know I've been to a few of them, so -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah. COMMISSIONER FIALA: And you wear them, you know. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah. COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's one thing about freedom, you can wear it if you want to. You don't have to wear it; you're not forced to. I don't like that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: One of the speakers asked if we were doing any research or what are we looking at. I came across an article in the New England Journal of Medicine, and there -- there were -- the point of this article was that the amount of viral load that one is exposed to has a dramatic impact on the severity of disease that might result from that. Lower viral load, the body is typically able to fight that off. A cough or a sneeze with a tremendous amount of viral load, if you receive that, then the body's response is what kicks into action and causes severe illness. And the article -- I'm just going to read one paragraph in this article, and it's the New England Journal of Medicine. It says: Ultimately, combating the pandemic will involve driving down both transmission rates and severity of disease. Increasing evidence suggests that population wide facial masking might benefit both components of that response. The point being that there's evidence that wearing a mask -- if two people are together and they're both wearing a mask and one of them is COVID-19 positive and shedding the virus, that wearing the mask will reduce the amount of viral load that somebody else in the vicinity will receive. There was another article. And I'm going to read this, and then October 22, 2020 Page 100 I'm going to turn this over to Andy because his light is lit up. This was in the New England Journal of Medicine as well. And let me just read this one conclusory paragraph. It is important to inform the public that the discomfort associated with mask use should not lead to unsubstantiated safety concerns, as this -- as this may attenuate the application of a practice proven to improve public health. As growing evidence indicates that asymptomatic individuals can fuel the spread of COVID-19, universal mask use needs to be vigorously enforced in community settings, particularly now that we are facing a pandemic with minimal proven therapeutic interventions. We believe our data will help mitigate fears about the health risk of surgical mask use and improve public confidence for widespread acceptance and use. This was from a study at a veterans hospital in Miami, part of a Jackson Hospital. And they took a group of healthy individuals and checked their blood and oxygen levels wearing a mask both before and after exercise and found that there was no change in blockage in levels and other markers because of the wearing of masks. Then they took a group of patients that had COPD, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Same thing, they checked those individuals wearing a mask for 30 minutes and determined that there was no change in the markers that you would look for to see if there was an impact from the mask. Then they had those COPD individuals exercise. They walked for six minutes, and again did the same analysis, and determined that, actually, on some of the markers there was an improvement. Not a -- not a negative response. So, I want to mention those -- those two articles. And I'll turn this over to Mr. Solis. I know you -- your light is lit up. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Well, I'd like to start by -- you October 22, 2020 Page 101 know, I heard -- I heard something today that I -- I have to bring it up. I mean, I -- one of the speakers said that this is not about human kindness. COMMISSIONER FIALA: About what? COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Human kindness. That is a stunning statement for me. Because, ultimately, I think everything needs to be about human kindness. You know, caring for our neighbors caring for our family members, you know, caring for our colleagues, caring for, you know, our community means that we all have to pitch in. A community means communion, where everybody's in it together, and I think we've lost that because -- this is real, it is not a hoax. And I have a copy of Governor Christie's article. Wasn't wearing a mask, and he says: I mistook the bubble of security around the president for a viral safe zone. I was wrong. There is no safe zone for this virus. When you get this disease, it hits you how easy it is to prevent. This is Governor Chris Christie, the staunchest of Republicans. We are asked to wear a cloth over our mouth and nose, wash our hands, and avoid crowds. These minor inconveniences can save your life, your neighbors, and the economy. Seldom has so little been asked for so much benefit. When the passage will be brought -- when the message will be broadly heeded -- sorry. Yet the message will be broadly heeded only if it is consistently and honestly delivered by the media, religious leaders, sports figures, and public servants. Those in positions of authority have a duty to get the message out. And as a lead-in to my next point: Those who deny the scientific realities of the pandemic undermine conditions that allow for rapid and complete reopening. You know, I think I started this discussion, I don't know how October 22, 2020 Page 102 many months ago, from the basis of we have to protect our economy. We have to protect our businesses. We have to protect the employees. All of the business owners, except for a few, by and large are in favor of maintaining a mask requirement. I've spoken with the folks at Arthrex, the chamber of commerce -- we all received an email from the chamber of commerce requesting that we continue the order. I've spoken with Dr. Patent from the school district, and I have an overwhelming number of emails. As -- at the time that the meeting started, I had 805 emails in support of extending the mask ordinance and 126 in opposition. You know, and we hear that we need to listen to the people that we represent. I mean, I'm hearing it. 805 to 126. You know, Governor Christie was very clear. He wished he had worn a mask. A week in the intensive care unit. The president -- my understanding is Byron Donalds has tested positive. I saw that in the newspaper. So, I will -- I can say that in terms of my constituents in District 2 -- and a large number of these 805 are not from District 2. My constituents are overwhelmingly in favor of having some requirement that masks be worn in public spaces like we've had. This is just like the issue with secondhand smoke. How is it any different than the requirement that -- or the -- the laws or ordinances that don't allow people to smoke cigarettes in public spaces anymore? That's not about an individual liberty. It's about the effect of that secondhand smoke on the people that don't want to smoke. That's exactly what it is. And that's exactly why smoking is not allowed in restaurants and public buildings anymore. And -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And I'll wrap it up. I think -- I've looked at the revisions to the -- to the proposed order, and I -- I think October 22, 2020 Page 103 they're spot on. But I -- again, the downside -- and this is where I started when we started having these discussions. The downside to doing this incorrectly is too great a risk for our economy, for our residents, for the businesses, for the employees. It's too great a risk that I don't think we should take. And that's on top of the human side of this, the human kindness side of this, that this is about caring for our neighbors, caring for our community, and caring for our family members. It is about that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Two quick comments. You were quoting from the article that Chris Christie wrote, and there was one other paragraph in there that, quite frankly, I think bears repeating. And it's one of the things that's really kind of saddened me in a lot of ways, because this has become such a political issue that you're -- you're either on one side or the other, and there's no in between, and people are just very, very emotional about it. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to have this hearing go into the evening, so that no one can complain that we haven't given everyone an opportunity to speak on this. And that's one of the reasons why I was a little bit loose in terms of the timing, because I wanted people to be able to say what they needed to say. But this is Chris Christie again, and this is exactly the way I feel. One of the worst aspects of America's divided politics is the polorization of something as practical as a mask. It's not a partisan or cultural symbol, not a sign of weakness or virtue. It's simply a good method -- not a perfect one, but a proven one -- to contain a cough or prevent the virus from getting in your mouth or your nose. Wear it or you may regret it as I did. And it's interesting just how polarized this -- this issue is. And it's a public health issue, it's not a political issue. And I think those words coming from a staunch Republican really capsule -- capsulate October 22, 2020 Page 104 how I feel about the polarization of this. Some of the speakers have said that we are not doing what our constituents want us to do. Commissioner Solis, you just pointed out the 800 and some emails that you've gotten. I got 700 emails. So not as many as you but close. 87 percent of them were supportive of continuing with a mask requirement, 13 percent said no. And then we got 27 phone calls. And out of the 27 phone calls, 21 of them were supportive of continuing with some mask order, and six were opposed to it. And so I -- we're not up here to try to figure out what the majority wants and -- we're here to try to figure out what's in the best interests of the community. You cannot ever determine what the majority really wants, unless you have an election. But there is an indication, just from these numbers, that there are a lot of people in this county that are supportive of moving forward with this. And so I just wanted to state those statistics. Commissioner Taylor? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you. My numbers started October the 13th and ended at about 1:00 today. There were 765 emails to our office extending the mask ordinance or mandate, excuse me, mask mandate, and there were 89 requesting that we end it. We had 26 calls to our office requesting to extend the mask mandate, and there were only seven asking that it end. But, you know, we -- I was asked by the press, are you going to base your -- what are you going to base your decision on, and I -- and I said I'm going to base it on science. And we all got very interesting articles from Arthrex, Reinhold Schmieding. And I started to go through some of them, and I'm just going to quickly and succinctly just end with my -- my comments with one about -- from New England Journal of Medicine. It was published October 22, 2020 Page 105 September the 8th, 2020. And in it, the first paragraph says: As SARS COVID 2 continues its global spread, it's possible that one of the pillars of the COVID-19 pandemic control, universal face -- facial masking, might help reduce -- might help reduce the severity of the disease and ensure a greater proportion of new infections are asymptomatic. Now, did they say it works? No. But as we go through this, there is more and more evidence that wearing masks makes a difference to the health of the people wearing the mask and also the health of the people around them. So, I -- I -- there are many more articles. If anybody wants me to send these to them, I would be more than happy to send them, just contact my office. But clearly I -- I agree with Commissioner Solis' remarks regarding the economy. People want to feel safe, for Pete's sake. You know, way back when -- when cities were being built, one of the greatest causes of death were the cars that were running over the people because they didn't have any way of controlling how the people walked across the street, they didn't have streetlights. That's history, folks. People want to feel safe, and we live in a time of rules. Are we going to live -- wear masks our whole life? No. I was asked today -- asked directly today how long is this going to go on. And I think that's going to be our next discussion. I think it has to be, because nobody can do this every few days -- or few weeks. Excuse me, few weeks. And to credit to our -- our chairman -- and please understand, we -- there's no rule book of how to handle a pandemic. There's no rule book about what a governing body is supposed to do. And so we deliberately were very methodical and very careful about how we approached this. And in my mind, it's clear that you want to feel October 22, 2020 Page 106 safe and be -- feeling safe is wearing a mask. Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel? COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: Yes. Troy -- MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: If you folks will indulge me, on September 24th, before the governor moved us to the phase three opening, he hosted -- if you didn't see it, it was a two-hour press conference. And if you'll indulge me to accept the fact that he read the qualifications of the experts that he brought in for a two-hour press conference and accept the fact that these guys are walking experts, I have about a four and a half minute video -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sure. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: -- I'd like to show. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Absolutely. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: And if you haven't seen it, for those who are watching, it's worth two hours of your life to watch that press conference that -- that the governor put on. (The video was played as follows:) GOVERNOR DESANTIS: -- to characterize the efficacy of some of these things, they're called nonpharmaceutical interventions. I mean, obviously you have the -- the draconian -- some draconian Australia style lockdown or some of these places, but then you also have business closures, some other types of mandates. How -- what's the evidence that they've really been important in bending the curve? And I just mention this because, you know, the sunbelt -- we saw prevalence increase within a week of each other from Los Angeles to South Carolina, and different policies, different openings. They'll say, oh, well, Texas did this, but then I can point you to Georgia that did the opposite, and the epidemic curves are pretty similar. And so what role do they play, in terms of bending the curve of an epidemic? Can we say that at this time, given that October 22, 2020 Page 107 we do seem to have a lot of AB tests that have happened? DR. BHATTACHARYA: Yeah, I think it's -- it's -- it's mixed at best. I mean, like -- things like hand washing I'm -- I'm fully in favor of. You definitely -- there's lots of good evidence on that from -- you know, a long history. I think I want to distinguish, in answering your question, a mandate to do certain activities, like a mask mandate, from people naturally engaging in protective behavior. When people feel like there's some threat, some risk, they will automatically naturally engage in protective behavior. All right. So in places like Sweden, we see social distancing even without mandated social distancing. Because you communicate clearly to the public what the risks are, and people will take those actions on their own, versus a mandate that says we're going to fine you or imprison you or something if you violate this, if you don't engage in the particular behavior. From what I've seen in the empirical evidence, these mandates seem to be uncorrelated. Like, for instance, mask mandates seem to be uncorrelated with disease spread. All right? So, you have places that have mask mandates go in place, and you see cases continue to rise. Mask mandates are sometimes put in place during -- during the decline in cases, and people say, oh, look, the cases declined, but the cases were declining even before. The path of the disease seems -- seems, for the most part, as far as I can tell, immune -- just sort of uncorrelated with the imposition of these -- these kinds of NPI mandates. GOVERNOR DESANTIS: Case simply has one positive test, without any -- any clinical symptoms -- because, you know, when we were doing -- we had a lot of drive through test sites, where thousands of people were going through at the height, and we started surveying the people about why are you getting tested. And in some October 22, 2020 Page 108 of our most well-traffic areas, 80 percent had no symptoms. They were either just curious, they were told that they should for work, maybe they thought that they may have been exposed or whatever. But if they test positive, there's really no other evaluation. It's considered a case, and then presumably they're told, you know, to isolate. And, I don't know, is that how they typically have done it in the past, without any clinical confirmation? DR. BHATTACHARYA: In -- in medicine, there's a principle. You don't treat a number, you treat a patient. And I think we -- I think we've made that mistake with COVID. I mean, what Dr. Kulldorff said is exactly right. It depends on the context. If you want a more sensitive case -- a sensitive test -- I mean, I think the -- I've been really -- just like my colleagues, I've been very, very disappointed with the scientific community and the reaction, also the press -- the press as well. There have been open call by fellow folks here at Stanford to establish, in effect, a censorship board over open science, published in the New York Times. I've seen my colleague, Dr. John (inaudible), one of very top scientists, epidemiologists, infectious disease experts in the world, his -- his videos that he's done, suppressed. I've seen people attack scientists, respected scientist, who dissent, attacked in the ugliest ways. And I've been trying to understand what is motivating it. And almost always the complaint is that if you have dissent or are on this issue, that -- that you're endangering the public. I mean, I myself have been -- have been attacked in this way as well. I don't understand how having open scientific debate could possibly endanger the public. Science is not a mechanism of population control. It's a mechanism for seek -- learning true things when -- when the -- when it's something -- when you have a very October 22, 2020 Page 109 complicated situation. And everyone in science gets things wrong. I mean, everyone. It's not possible. That's why we have the open scientific debate, to correct one another. (The video recording was stopped.) COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: That's good enough, Troy. Thank you. That's good enough. I -- I think it's important that -- that you folks at least understand my position. I haven't -- I haven't really adjusted from my position since the beginning of this. I -- the virus is real. There are people that are going to get sick, and there are going to be people that pass away. And empathy for those -- for those people is -- is the utmost from my heart, but I think we have approached this from a -- in my mind, a counterintuitive process. I asked on March 13th that we reach out and protect our most vulnerable population. I don't think we, as a society, have done a very good job of that. Folks that are of age and have comorbidities. We've done an admirable job of assisting folks who have actually tested positive, but the case management after that has been lackluster, at best. Lackluster. I mean, our health department has told us regularly that they're at an 85 percentile on the contact of the positive cases. That means 15 percent of the people that did test positive slipped back in to wherever they came from and didn't get managed. I would rather, than a mandate, we focus our energies on education. I have said from the beginning, educate, don't mandate. We have had enormous positive effects of education with our efforts with our -- with our folks over in Immokalee. I mean, you know, 20 -- nearly 20,000 of the 88,000 tests that have been conducted in Collier County have been done in that ZIP Code of Immokalee on October 22, 2020 Page 110 less than 10 percent of Collier County's population. And it takes a community to -- to work through that process. I host -- or not host, but the health department now hosts it. We have a call every week. I missed it today. But we bring the partners together, we talk about the issues of the community. We talk about the services that the government is offering to assist positive cases. I have promised regularly that no one will be deported, and no one will be denied care, irrespective of their capacity to pay for that care. But educate, not mandate. The data that John Mullins did for us was -- was, to me, a decent outside opinion from our staff, which is what we have done, what I asked us to do back when this mandate came about. There really is no substantive shift in communities, on a community basis, to warrant the mandate. Is there a benefit in wearing a mask? I will answer that question. Yes, if you're put in places where you can't properly socially distance, if you are symptomatic of anything. I -- I think we've educated our population for it to become an obligation to wear a mask and/or not go at all. It's difficult for me when we have two incorporated communities within Collier County who have -- one chose to opt out, out at all, the city of Naples, and the other two chose not to opt in. We have community members traveling to and from those areas. We have visitors traveling to and from Collier County every single day from other communities. That's one of the reasons why I reached out to those heavily, heavily populated communities of Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, Orange, and Pinellas Counties. All five of those counties have had mask mandates and lockdown, shutdown orders for quite some time. And if you take some time -- I think, County Manager, we distributed this to the board a week October 22, 2020 Page 111 or two ago, if I'm not mistaken. I asked you to anyway, make sure you get it to them. I mean, because it's all a matter of public knowledge. But have a look at that data. There -- everybody kind of sort of did the same thing. Maybe at different times, and -- and I know -- I know John with our health department talked today. There's a lot -- you know, it doesn't take very much, and you can tweak that data. But, basically, everybody did the same thing on singular points with regard to what's going on in the world, in the country. Everybody's -- everybody's numbers were coming down in that first 45 days, and everybody's numbers started to go up as soon as we went to phase one. Everybody's numbers were coming down in phase two. And the governor moved us to phase three, schools have been open for a month and a half, what do you think the numbers are going to do? Have you looked -- and forgive me for pointing at you, but have you looked at -- have you looked at the average age of the positive cases? It's tanking as well. It's come down to 41 in Collier County right now. So, one of our speakers spoke today, I -- I was listening. You know, I listened to all of them. And we have all struggled with this decision, coming at it from different viewpoints. Arguably, there are -- I'm not in opposition of masks. I am in absolute opposition of the mandate. And I would prefer that we spent our money and our time and our energy in education. Educate our population on the benefits of wearing a mask when you're in that spot, the benefits of eating properly and increasing your own immune system, washing your hands, don't pick your nose with the pointy end of your finger that you just hit an elevator button with and a million people haven't -- haven't sanitized it, use the back of your knuckle. Use your nondominant hand to adjust your glasses. Little social October 22, 2020 Page 112 things that will help benefit all of our community in staying healthier longer. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Fiala? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Well -- oh. Wrong microphone. See, I guess we're all stuck in the same position, because I can't see any difference. I can see demanding it if we could see that by us wearing the masks, our figures had plunged compared to everybody else's, if we could see that it's made a big difference, but it hasn't made it at all. We see the other areas right around us, and they're -- they have the same thing. I've got people from Marco Island demanding that we use masks. They don't have masks. You know, but I want to tell you all, we all can wear them anytime we feel like it. We can put a sign on our business saying do not enter unless you have a mask, and people will adhere to that; they will obey it. And you have the freedom to do that, and I -- I think that that -- that's all people are saying. We've still got smart heads on our shoulders, and we don't -- I know -- I don't know about you guys, but when I go into a crowded store, I put a mask on all the time. You know, you have to -- you know, you have to be safe, you have to be smart about the whole thing. Nobody has to mandate me to do that, I just do it because I care and I figure that other things -- same thing, I go to certain particular -- like, for instance, if I would go -- I don't go to the sports park, but if I was going to the sports park, I would probably wear a mask because there's so many people there, and you want to do that. Or like the elections office, where I suggested, according to Jennifer's request, that we ask them to wear masks there because they're all going to be in close contact, and I think that that would be a smart October 22, 2020 Page 113 thing to do. But the rest of it -- I want to tell you, if we don't have a mask there, nobody's goes to stop wearing them, because there's a lot of people that they real -- feel that they really need to. Let them. You know, the business, the same thing. "Well, I can't open my business unless I have a mask mandate." Well, that's good, they can do that. But we're not forcing them to do it, they are -- they're doing it because they want to. And -- and I -- I just -- I -- I just hate government overreach. I just do. And I feel that people are smart enough to know how to protect themselves without you telling them what they have to do. Especially when nobody else tells them that they have to do it, and they're all just as safe as we are. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I was -- I was out in Arizona a couple weeks ago. My brother had some surgery out there, so I went out for -- I was there for a week. And they have a statewide mask mandate, and I'll tell you, everywhere I went, every store, gas station, everywhere, people were wearing their mask. And they really weren't -- and I asked a couple people what they thought about it. No one had any -- any particular problems with it. The ones I talked to. That doesn't mean no one had any problems with it, but just the few people that I talked to. And the -- kind of the consensus was it's a minor intrusion, and it may have a positive impact. Now, in Arizona the numbers have come way down, from what I understand, since they imposed a statewide order. And businesses are busy, people are shopping, but they're wearing their mask and doing those sorts of things. And I just wanted to mention that because there -- there is at least some evidence that I've seen that these types of things work. Also, we're at -- we're only at the beginning of what is going to be a major surge in cases. We had, I think, almost 70,000 cases in October 22, 2020 Page 114 the United States. Now Florida, the weather is good here. It's actually getting better, the weather is getting better for outdoor activities in Florida now, but it'll -- it'll -- we'll get to that point where we have a lot of people coming to our community, doing indoor activities. And I'm going to turn this over to Commissioner Taylor in just a moment, but I'm going to ask the county attorney to go through the changes that I had recommended. And the one change that is, I think, very significant is this will apply where social distancing is not feasible. So, I know a lot of people have been concerned about how we would apply this. And then, also, there's a change clarifying that this is not a criminal sanction. It's purely a code enforcement sanction or issue that is complaint driven. And so, we'll get to you in a few minutes, Mr. Klatzkow. So, I want that -- that explained. Commissioner Taylor? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah, just one thing. And, Commissioner McDaniel, the -- on what you gave and the data you gave me -- I don't think you can understand me. So what you -- what you gave us and the data that you gave us under fatalities -- now, Lee County, I don't believe -- I believe areas of Lee County have mask mandates, but Lee County doesn't. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: That's correct. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Their fatalities are staggering compared to Collier County. COMMISSIONER FIALA: What are the numbers, please? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Well, let's just -- let's just put it on the visualizer. I'd like to go to fatality southwest Florida, and also fatality -- fatalities various counties, but especially southwest Florida. October 22, 2020 Page 115 And the gray line is Lee County, the red line is us, and the other line -- the orange line is Palm Beach. MR. OCHS: Charlotte, ma'am. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Oh, Charlotte. Pardon me. I saw Palm Beach. MR. OCHS: That's on the -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Oh, that's the phase. Okay. Beg your pardon, that's correct. Charlotte is there, and we are the red, and this is Lee County. And then if you go to the -- I mean, Lee County leads hospitalizations. There -- so many more than we have had. So, again, from my reading -- and I'm not a scientist, so please. But what I'm reading is saying that masks might reduce the severity, the severity of the pandemic, of the virus. And it's the severity that frightens us all. And when you heard this very poignant and very, very sad testimony of this mother who is describing what her son has gone through -- I mean, that's -- we still don't know so much about this. And if -- if we can mask to -- to protect other people and -- and to -- to bring a sense of compassion and empathy to this terror of this pandemic that we really don't know enough about it, I think -- I think it's so little that we can do, and I think it's so important that we do it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have two more general comments, and then I think it will be appropriate to have the comments from the county attorney. Commissioner Fiala? COMMISSIONER FIALA: You know what? I've forgotten what you just said. And I had a reply before Penny started, and I didn't write it down, and there was something I -- whatever you said. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I have no idea what I said. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: About Arizona? About October 22, 2020 Page 116 Arizona? COMMISSIONER FIALA: No. It was after that. It was just something about -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I was saying -- what I said after that is that we were on -- really on the cusp of a surge of COVID cases throughout the country. We've had about 70,000 new cases per day for the last couple days. Predictions are that those numbers are going to go up dramatically as it gets colder. And I mentioned that Florida -- we're in an ideal situation in Florida because, actually, the weather's getting better for outdoor activities now, but that's going to change. And we have to be prepared for what I believe will be people coming to our community, many of which are likely to be COVID positive, and this seems to be a simple way to protect ourselves, our visitors, our businesses, and to keep -- keep businesses open. As a matter of fact, the -- I know the chamber of commerce doesn't represent all businesses, but the chamber of commerce has come out in support of continuing the mask mandate. COMMISSIONER FIALA: They're in the city of Naples also. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: They're -- yeah, they're all over. But they -- they are supportive. And, now, originally they would not support a mask mandate. They said we're not going to oppose it, but we're not going to take a position one way or the other. Well, they've changed. And while I'm mentioning that, let me just pull up the -- the letter if I can find it. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, that's okay. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It's an interesting -- COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I've got it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You have it? If you'd read it, that's an interesting paragraph from Michael Dalby that I think -- October 22, 2020 Page 117 COMMISSIONER SOLIS: This was in -- Mr. Chair, if you want me to read it? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Sure. It's -- this is an email from Michael Dalby to the chairman. Dear Chairman Saunders and Board of County Commissioners, we respectfully ask to read the following statement from Chamber President and CEO Michael Dalby into the record. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Got it. I remember now. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: The Greater Naples Chamber continues to support measures, including mask requirement -- masking requirements, that keep our economy open. We have received little negative feedback on the current masking requirements. The vast majority of employers have adopted -- adapted to the requirements and are willing to do their part to encourage consumer confidence and safety and to help our local economy recover. With the COVID-19 numbers unfortunately increasing in Collier County, see attached, and our seasonal residents returning, we believe it makes good sense to continue the masking requirement for the time being. Thank you for your time and consideration, Michael Dalby. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel. And then we'll turn to the county attorney for -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I -- I do remember what I was going to say. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. Go ahead. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: She can go first. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Go ahead. (Simultaneous crosstalk.) COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Fine. October 22, 2020 Page 118 We were -- you were talking about code enforcement, and we were talking about the people who aren't wearing their masks. If we -- if we put a mask mandate or if we extend this mask mandate anyway, even though the governor is stopping theirs, one of the -- one of the deputies asked me -- he said, "I have no right to even go and, you know, recommend anybody because now, you know, the governor has said it's okay to be without masks." And same with the City of Naples. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: The way we did this was to take the sheriff's office completely out of the picture. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. How about code enforcement? How can code enforcement do anything? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, we'll have to have the county attorney explain that. COMMISSIONER FIALA: It's -- yeah, because if -- if the governor has said it's okay, and we're the only guy around that says, no, it isn't -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I understand. It's a little bit more complicated than that. I'll have -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I would ask the county attorney to address that. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you for letting me say that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel, then let's turn it over to explain the -- the new draft. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: Well, the county attorney can come on up if you want, because my questions kind of are for him as well. One of my -- one of my issues with this -- any mandate, again, is what I understood in the moving to phase three and the preemption of personal or individual penalties for the violation of local mandates October 22, 2020 Page 119 were -- are we putting ourselves in a position where we're creating a new ordinance that isn't enforceable? CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Klatzkow, if you could address that, and then if you would go through the proposed changes for our consideration. MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. I'll need to take my mask off. I believe you've got the police power to enact this order, yes, and I believe it's enforceable, yes. Getting to the changes that Commissioner Saunders had asked me to make. First off, in answer to Commissioner Fiala's question, what the governor did was he limited the enforcement of mask orders and barred the enforcement against individuals. Businesses he allowed to be continued to be fined. And we called the governor's office, and it was confirmed, yes, you can still fine businesses for letting people into their businesses in violation of local ordinance, but we don't want -- we are suspending all fines against individuals. So, the governor made that differential, which you'll see has been put into place in this proposed order. The highlighted portions are the changes from the new order as compared to the old or the current order, which expires midnight. And the first substantive change is that first we're going to define social distancing. It's a safe space between yourself and other people who are not from your household. At least 6 feet from other people. And this is directly, word for word, out of the CDC guidelines. What we then did was -- what we said was an owner, manager, employee, customer, or patron of a business establishment must wear a face covering while in a business establishment where social distancing is not possible. So, in other words, a business that has the ability to have people there who can socially distance, this order would not regulate. It's when -- the order is intended to regulate those situations where October 22, 2020 Page 120 people are packed together. Think of a movie house as an example. A full movie house, people are just crammed all into one room, it's indoors. Social distancing, unless it's a really bad movie, is relatively impossible. Other places, clearly social distancing is an easy thing to do. Commission Saunders expressed he wanted to remove the sheriff from any possibility of having to enforce. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: The sheriff has never been involved. MR. KLATZKOW: Never been involved. But there's been allegations -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're not removing the sheriff from this, but we're just clarifying. MR. KLATZKOW: There have been allegations or -- allegations may be too strong a word. There's been misconceptions that the sheriff could do this. We wanted to expressly put into the ordinance that the only enforcement agency, Collier County Code Enforcement. This can be complaint driven, which is how we operate anyway. So, our code enforcement agency would have to receive a complaint, they'd have to go there, determine there was a violation, and then the alleged violator would have to refuse to comply. Okay? Because our code enforcement has always been compliance driven. So we're -- so we don't really look into anything unless there's a complaint, and then when we do, we're always trying to get compliance. After that -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You need to move that down. There you go. MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. Because of the governor's order that I spoke to earlier, we wanted to make it clear that the citations October 22, 2020 Page 121 are to businesses only, not to individuals. We also want to make clear -- because, again, there was a misconception on this. The order was never intended to constitute a criminal penalty. We want to expressly put into here that, no, this is not a criminal penalty. This is just a civil citation against businesses who refuse to comply. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Then I'm going to ask you one question, then I'll turn this over to Commissioner McDaniel and then Commissioner Solis. What we are doing, this is not an emergency -- maybe you need to kind of guide me on this. This is a -- this is a regularly scheduled county commission meeting; this is not an emergency meeting. Would this be considered an emergency order, or what would be the characterization of that? It just says order on there. MR. KLATZKOW: No. You have -- you enacted this in an emergency situation, but this is -- you've enacted this order, you then extended this order, now this is the third time this is before you. At this point in time, you cannot say that this meeting is an emergency. Had it been an emergency, you would've acted at your prior meeting on Tuesday. This is just a natural evolution of this particular order. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel? COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: So, is this an emergency executive order? MR. KLATZKOW: No. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: No. Has it -- and it hasn't been in -- and, again, this is one of my questions. I've -- I've been reading about the process, the due notice to the public, the proper advertising, having these emergency meetings. We had ample time last week, in our stated communication for -- for -- to notice of a -- of a -- an impending meeting, and it's not being done and I -- I -- you October 22, 2020 Page 122 know, I didn't -- I have -- I have issues with the -- I have issues with the mandate at all. I've said that regularly, I'm not going to come off of that. I just -- and I -- and I think we're just moving -- we're moving from one unenforceable mandate to another and -- without any good evidence to -- other than fear or the theory of fear, to warrant continuing it. Now, I -- I do -- so that's my statement there. I'm not going to -- I'm good with that. Commissioner Taylor, I -- you questioned -- you were questioning some of the data with regard to -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, not questioning, just making a statement. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: And I want to clarify that statement, in that as -- as was said by John from the health department, if he's still back there, there's a lot of information that comes into this. And you -- one of the statements that you made was the -- a large amount of fatalities for Lee County, in comparison to Collier, when in fact it's just about double, and it's based upon the population of the community. Lee County is double in population to us. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: If it was a flat line, I would accept that; but it's not, it's a huge peak. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: I understand, I understand. I just -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis? COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I just want to revisit something that the county attorney just said. So -- so you actually contacted the governor's office to figure out what the governor's position was on the effect of the governor's order on our order and whether or not -- well, let me -- let me October 22, 2020 Page 123 rephrase that. You actually called and contacted the governor's office to find out whether or not the governor's order would prevent us from enforcing through code enforcement on businesses? MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And the governor's office said that we could -- that was okay, they -- the order was limited to enforcement and fines against individuals? MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: The governor's office could have said you can't do this on businesses either, right? MR. KLATZKOW: The governor could've preempted local governments at any time. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Right. MR. KLATZKOW: It has been the governor's policy to allow local governments to put in whatever measures they deem to be appropriate. Because what's happening in the Panhandle is very different than what's happening, for example, in east Florida or even here. Palm Beach County, Miami-Dade, what's happening there is very, very different than what's happening in more rural parts of the state. It would've made very little sense for the governor to have a statewide mask mandate because of that. So he expressly stated enumerable times, "I am leaving to local government to enact these measures," and he could've preempted you at any time. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And then the other question I had is -- and I have a copy of what you sent me. I had just asked, you know, what was the status of all of the ordinances that you had looked at before, when we started visiting this, throughout the county and -- and had they been extended, had they expired, had they been October 22, 2020 Page 124 renewed, that -- and -- and so I'm -- I didn't count them up, but I've got four pages. MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And I think you highlighted for me the ones that had either been -- had either expired or repealed -- had been repealed. MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And so I'm counting one, two, three, four, five of the -- I would assume that there's a hundred. MR. KLATZKOW: Something like that. I didn't count. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: So, there's been five that have been either repealed or have been allowed to expire. MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. The -- it's clear that the vast majorities of counties who have enacted these measures have continued these measures. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay. Thanks. That's all I -- that's all I -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Fiala. And then I think we're ready to -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- have a motion one way or the other on this. COMMISSIONER FIALA: So, what happens to the people who will not wear a mask, whether it be for health reasons or otherwise? MR. KLATZKOW: From the county's perspective, we're not going to do anything. Now, if a business wishes to bar them entry, that's -- that's on the business, okay, but there's no infraction of this ordinance as to this -- quite frankly, there's never been an infraction on an individual. The original order was set up to put the onus on businesses to enact these measures by basically barring people at the October 22, 2020 Page 125 door. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Nobody else's light is lit up. Is there a motion one way or the other? COMMISSIONER FIALA: I vote to let it die. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Is there a second? COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Was that a motion? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It's a motion to -- quite frankly, I don't have a problem with that motion because I think that order should -- should go away, but we do have a new order. So, from a procedural standpoint, we can support that motion. The order that's in place now goes away anyway. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: So, we can get credit for killing the ordinance that's in place while -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're -- COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: -- you enact a new one. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to run over the roadkill. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: Second Commissioner Fiala's motion. It's not funny, but I'll second it. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, it's a -- it's a good point and -- and let me call for the question on that now. The only thing we're voting on at this point is the order that's in place now, and the motion is to let that expire. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All in favor signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye. October 22, 2020 Page 126 COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously. Now, I have presented to you an alternative order. I don't know if there's any support for it, but -- COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It's time now for us to put this to bed one way or the other. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I'll make a motion to approve the revised order that was presented by the chairman, with the changes that are indicated. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: But, but -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes. Excuse me. And I'll second it if you tell me how long it's going to be. That's -- that's -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We do not have an ending period in this, and that is a good -- an excellent point. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So, I mean, do we -- you know, we've heard suggestions until there's a vaccine; we've heard suggestions through the season. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I would suggest that -- because, I mean, my focus has been the businesses are concerned about the season, that we -- we extend it through the end of the season. If at some point -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: You mean like in July? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No. April. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Is that the season? COMMISSIONER FIALA: I don't know what season you're talking about. Right now we're going into high season for our area. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Right. And it usually ends when, October 22, 2020 Page 127 around Easter? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Yeah. COMMISSIONER FIALA: You want to extend it until Easter? COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And if at any time we are advised by the CDC, the governor's office, the health care professionals, the department of health, that it's no longer needed, I will be the first one to bring it back prior to April. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I'll second that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So, we -- we haven't defined that season. So, you're saying -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: You better define it. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I was looking -- CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: While he is looking for a date to put into this, any time this commission is in session, we can rescind an order or extend an order. So if there's a date put in here, if it's, you know, April 15th, whatever the date is, if in January we decide that this is not the way to go, we can always repeal an order in a -- whenever this commission is meeting. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: The season's always been considered through -- through Easter. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And Easter in 2021 falls on April 4th. So, I would -- I would amend my motion to have it expire at midnight on April 5th. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Would you consider moving it to a meeting date, rather than having to have a special meeting? COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Good point. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: Just let it expire. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So -- well, I mean, it's -- MR. OCHS: Your first meeting date in April is the 13th. October 22, 2020 Page 128 COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: The 13th. And tax day is the 15th, so that's very good time -- COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Yeah. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: -- frame. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So, you're amending your motion to -- COMMISSIONER SOLIS: To -- to the 13th. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Right. COMMISSIONER FIALA: So, let's see, that's November, December, January, February, March, April. Six more months. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I'll -- I'll amend my motion to include that. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have a motion, a second. Commissioner McDaniel, you're lit up again. COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: Yes. I -- first off, if I were a proponent of mandates, I want to compliment you on the preparation of this mandate. I'm not a supporter of mandates, as I've already said to you, but I do want to say to you, since this entire process, short -- short of the stay-at-home order in March, that was a bit distressing, but you have managed this mask issue very appropriately. Before the mandate came out, you talked about the validity of wearing masks. You talked about -- you talked about it was cool to wear a mask, trying to incentivize people to know and understand that benefit. It saddens me that we have to move to some kind of a local government ordinance to, theoretically, induce people to comply. But having said -- I'm not going to support the motion, of course, but the compliment is you -- you watered down the last ordinance that was brought before us that had criminal charges and all kinds of unrealistic processes in place. And, again, I even said October 22, 2020 Page 129 after that meeting that if I were someone that could support a mandate, you did a good job in making that one halfway palatable, so -- I'm not in favor of the motion. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm going to call for the vote in just one quick second, but I am going to make two quick comments. One is I want to thank the board and our staff for your patience and the public. It's been pointed out that we've had four or five of these long -- very long hearings, and I think that's been very helpful, and I think it's been very important because these are very difficult issues, very emotional issues, and we've been able to kind of keep up with the science on this. So, at some point, if the science changes between now and April, we can come back and rescind this order any time we're in session. But I really want to thank -- thank our staff and my fellow commissioners and the public, again, for being patient. These are long, difficult issues. I believe that this order is the right thing to do. I believe that we will be judged -- we are always judged by the things that we don't do. If we don't extend this order and we have a tremendous spike in cases, then we made a mistake. If we adopt this order and there are no cases and there's no spike, no one will know if we did the right thing or not, but at least we'll know we didn't do the wrong thing, from the perspective of adopting this order. So, with that, if there's no further discussion, all in favor signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed? COMMISSIONER MCDANIEL: No. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I would never vote for that. No. October 22, 2020 Page 130 CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes three to two. Mr. Ochs, do we have any other business to conduct? MR. OCHS: No, sir. CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. If not, we are adjourned. ***** There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 7:21 p.m. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL _______________________________________ BURT SAUNDERS, CHAIRMAN ATTEST CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK ___________________________ These minutes approved by the board on _____________________, as presented ______________ or as corrected _____________. TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS COURT REPORTING BY REBBECCA L. CRANE, RPR, FPR, COURT REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC.