BCC Minutes 07/28/1978 W
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Naples, Florida, July 28, 1978
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners in
and for the County of Collier, and also aoting as the Governing
Board(s) of such special districts as have been created according to
law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00
A.M, in Budget Workshop Session in Building "F" of th~ Courthouse
Complex with tho following members present I
CHAIRMAN I John A. Pistor
VICE-CHAIRMANI ~avid C. Brown
C. R. "Russ" Wimer
Thomas P. Archer
Clifford Wenzel
ALSO PRERENm: William J. Reagan, Clerk, Harold L. Hall, Chief
Df~uty Clerk/Fiscal Officer I Edna L. Brenneman, Deputy Clerk,
C. William Norman, County Manager, and Deputy Chief Raymond Barnett,
Sheriff's Department.
1978-79 BUDGET REVIEW SCHEDULE
FRIDAY, July 28, 1978
9:00 a.m. 40-010 An:bulance Service - American Jack Maguire
10:00 40-030 Ambulance Service - Zippo Ray Errett
10:30 89-000 Museum Mary Manion
11: 00 32-011 Youth Programs - Youth Guidance Kathy Manz
32-012 Youth Programs - Volunteer (New)
11: 15 32-020 Youth Programs - Naples Alan Stroud
Wilderness
11: 30 ** 87-010 Parka & Recreation Rollie Rice
87-020 Parks & Recreation - Ground
Maintenance
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1:30
86-010 Library - Headquarters
86-020 l.ibrary - Outreach
86-030 Library - Golden Gate
86-040 Library - Immokalee
86-050 Library - Marco Island
86-060 Library - North County (New)
08-0l0 Building Maintenance
65-010 Airports - IrmnlJkalee
65-020 Airports - Everglades (New)
Dick Joder
2:30
Lowell Raines
**Deferred until P.M. session
Confirmed 7/20/78
V. Magri
ANERICAN AMBULANCE SERVICE BUDGET!40-0l0) FY 78-79 - REVIEWED
Mr. Jack Maquire, President, American Ambulance Service,
stated that the major issue in the budget for American Ambulance
Service is the proposal for the addition of telemetry service which
includes equipment to be purchas~d by the County, using donations
and County matching runds to supplement State grants. Hesaid
that among the factors involved in the purchase of the equipment
is the increased pressure to upgrade the service, noting that
ambulance service should not be considered simply a transportation
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July 28, 1978
system but to recognize it as becoming an extension of the hospital
emergency Cepartment and brin1ing expert care to the patients by
training personnel in the use of the communications equipment.
Mr. Maguiro reviewed the history of the arrangement with
the County for ambulanct' service since its inception in 1975 and
the cost to the County from that period on. He said that to
operate the ambulance service the next fiscal year as it was
0perated during the current year, with no changss in the contract
with the County, $248,960 is being request,d, pointing out that
this amount illustrates that the service would be operating $3,049
less than tho current year. CommiAsioner Wenzel stated that
until a brief summary of the firm's books is available for
sc:. utiny, since the firm is subsidized by the taxpayers, it would
be impossible to vote on tho proposed budget.
Concerning the proposed telemetry system, Mr. Maguire advised
that the County's share will be $38,903 for the purchase and initial
cost of the Advanced Life Support system - the balance of the cost
will be funded by donations in the amount of $15,500. He provided
a breakdown of the reoccurring operations costs, copies of same
having been distributed to the Commissioners totaling $45,553
which he said includes the reduction in the 1977-78 Operating Budget
of $3,049.
Commissioner Brown inquired if the proposal for telemetry
equipment included its availability to the Immokalee residents
with Mr. Maguire responding in the negative and providing details
on how it can be utilized in cooperation between the two ambulance
services. Lengthy dis~ussion followed with regard to the operation
of the equipment, its value to the citizenry of the community, and
the like.
Dr. L. M. Nightingale, Marco Island resident, spoke in favor
of the telemetry acquisition, noting that the proposal is backed
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by almost 100% of the residents and that they have shown t:lis
by donations to purchase ~he hospital's equipment. He explained
that the system will not only be of value to the older citizens
but can provide life-saving service to all ages.
Mr. Ralph Yokum, area resident, inquired, if the taxpayers
are being asked to provide funding for most of the bills, what
is being provided by American Ambulance other than personnel
which, in his opinion, could be furnished by the County? Com-
missioner Wimer explained the reasons behind the subsidy to
private exterprise stating that the matter was reviewed diligently
and the decision was made that it w~uld be less costly to the
taxpayers. He pointed out that the matter received wide publicity
and is public record.
Commissioner Archer inquired about the County's chances for
receiving another grant in the future if the decision is made
to deny the request for the ALS/telemetry sYAtem with Mr. Maguire
responding that the chances would be "zero". Deputy Chief Raymond
Barnett, Chairman, Emergency Medical Services Advisory Councjl,
explained that by providing grants to certain counties, other
counties would become involved. He also noted that the EMS Council
is solidly behind the system.
Discussion followed concerning the percentage of taxpayers who
would benefit from the telemetry system with Commissioner Wimer
statirtg that his research of the figures show that less than 1% of
the ambulance calls could be considered to involve life-saving
factors. For this reason, the Commissioner suggested that some means
of funding other than by ad valorem taxes be considered. Mr. Maguire
said that the proposed figures presented with regard to the charges t(
be borne by the users was at best a "guesstimate" but a more exact
figure would be available following the first year of operation,
suggesting that if the Board so desires, the rate structure could
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July 28, .1978
be adjusted upward. Chairman Pistor inquired if the equipment
cOllld be ~ncluded in the Ca~ital Improvement Bond Issue with
Mr. Hall stating that the matching costs for the equipment probably
could be included, however, not the operational costs. Commissioner
Wimer observed that t:.,e operational cost. to the taxpayer are the
costs which concern him and that something will have to be done to
pay for the operating expenses and to maintain the equipment, and
the like, rather than to "stick it on the taxpayer".
Following further discuasion, it was the consensus of the Board
that the staff work with the firm's representatives for recommendations
on a method of financing the operational costs for the new equipment
other than by the use of ad valorem taxes. Chairman Pistor directed
~nat when said recommendations are ready for further review that
thoy be brought back to the Board, adding the possibility of
scheduling a meeting on August 7, 1978, if necessary.
ZIPPO AMBULANCE SERVICE BUDGET (40-030) FY 78-79 - REVIEWED
Mr. Ray Errett, Zippo Ambulance Service, Immokalee, Florida,
briefly reviewed the reasons for the requested subsidy from the
County to operate the service in Immokalee, the status of the
present ope-ation, and called upon Mr. Richard Rue, his associate
to respond to questions from the Board.
Hr. Rue stated ~h~t Mr. Errett gave up operating the gas station
in Immokalee in order to devote full time to the arnbulanceservice;
however, he said that it is impossible to continue due to the
fact that despite working 24 hours a day, seven days a week he
earned only $901 in 1977. Reference was made to the revised budget
and justification for same as prepared by Mr. Errett dated July 3,
1978, copies of same having been distributed to the Commissioners.
The proposal was discussed with Commissioner Wimer pointing out
that the basic problem is that there are not enough ambulance
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July 28, 1978
calls in Immokalee to pay for the service, noting that he is in
favor of working with the f~rm to provide adequate ambulance
service but that he cannot vote for th& proposal.
The matter of the contract between the County and Zippo Ambulance
was discussed with Ml'. Errett explaining that he can increase
his rate at any time without approval by the Board. He asked
if he were to hire an extra man in order for him to have some
time off and to stay in business if the County would "stand" the
bills. Chairman Pistor pointed out tha~ the County is paying
the service $12,000 annually now for transporting indigent
patients. Mr. Errett stated that ~he costs for these patients are
higher than what he is charging the County but that in the future
ne will charge the County the same fee as for an "ordinary" patient.
It was the consensus of the Board that the ambulance service
is a valuable asset to the community and it is desirable that
Mr. Errett r~main in the business, however, it is apparent that
the rates will have to be raised. Chairman Pistor directe~ that
Mr. Hall and the County Manager confer with the representativos
of Zippo Ambulance Service, review the overall structure of rates,
and come back to the Board with recommendations when ready, hope-
fully by August 7, 1978.
I1USEUM BUDGET (89-000) FY 78-79 - REVIEWED
Ms. Mary Manion, Museum Director, explained the need for the
new position proposed in the t-tuseum Budget for the F': 78-79 stating
that the CETA Title VI contract terminates in September of 1978
and that she will be without any help. She described the type
of individual required stating that the position is necessary in
order to enable her to do more field work.
Discussion followed concerning such matters as possible
help from the Historical Society, the possibility of operating
hours being cut or the museum being closed one additonal day per week,
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July 28, 1978
volunteer help, and the like. Ms. Manion explained that the
Historical Society is looking into the possibility of purchasing
and renovating a site in Old Naples to use as their headquarters
and that all funds will be used for that purpose, also explaining
her reasons for being opposed to closing down the museum an extra
day and for the use of volunteer help instead of a Pull-time,
responsible employee.
Commissioner Archer expressed his concurrence with the need
for an additional employee for the museum if appropriate funding
can be arranged, following which he moved that the Museum Bu~get
be given tentative approval and that recommendations be forth-
coming for funding, hopefully, without the use of ad valorem taxes.
Commissioner Brown seconded the motion. No vote was taken on the
motion, with Chairman Pistor stating that the Board was meeting in
Workshop Session.
Clerk William J. Reagan urged that a letter be written to the
Society stressing the value of the Museum, and its contents, which
must be protected, and their responsibility to maintain it. At
Chairman Pistor's request, Mr. Reagan said that he would prep~re
the subject letter.
Mr. Scott Foster suggested the possibility of transferring an
employee from another department with Ms. Manion explaining that
she has a prospective employee in mind who has a degree but no
experience.
Commissioner Archer restated his motion to approve the
Jo.Iuseum Budget with the addition of one employee, arrangements for
funding to be forthcoming. Commissioner Brown seconded the motion
with Chairman Pistor commenting that, if there were no objections,
he would consider the motion passed. There were no objections
forthcoming.
Ms. l'lanion inquired if she could so advise the prospective
employee with Commissioner Wimer suggesting that she confer with
the County Manager in this regard.
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YOUTH PROGRAM BUDGETS (32-011. 32-012) FY 78-79 - REVIEWED
Fiscal Officer Harold Hall advised that, due to some needed
changes regarding the grant, it would be necessary to reschedule
the Naples Wilderness Budget. 'Concerning the overall budget for
the Youth Guidance Program, Mr. Hall stated that a very small
increase of 9% is reflected.
Mrs. Kathy Manz, ~outh Guidance Director, stated that she
is very proud that the LEAA has funded the County for so many
years, noting that Collier County is one of the very few counties
which has been looked upon so favorably. She explained that
some aid is received from persons who cannot volunteer their
services but would like to help the. pr9Rram ,which accounts for
a portion of the revenue shown in the budget and is non-tax
monies. Chairman Pistor commented that these contributions are
due largely to the public appearances by Mrs. Manz wherein she
explains the Youth Programs.
Concerning the CETA employee serving as secretary, Mrs.
Manz said that this will continue, as far as she knows, but
that in the event the position is discontinued, she will perform
such functions or. possibly secure a volunteer.
Commissioner Wimer inquired about the decrease in Workmens'
Compensation shown on the budget, with Fis~al Officer Harold Hall
and County Manager Norman explaining the reasons for this - that
it is due mainly to a reassignment of classification numbers to
correspond with that of the insurance company's. Mr. Hall stated
~hat when the proposed budget is prepared for advertising, all
Workmen's Compensation insurance charges will be allocated back
out of the General Government budget and into the proper depart-
mental budgets.
Commissioner Brown moved for tentative approval of the Youth
Volunteer Program budget. seconded by Commissioner Archer.
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Mr. Ralph Yocum inquired about the amount of cooperation
received from the parents to help support the ohildren involved
in the programs with Mrs. Manz stating that on occasion parents
have been asked for support, however, she said that there is a line
where her responsibility ends and the State takes over. Mrs. Manz
added that the County does not usually have to provide funds,
but that eventually someone has to assume this responsibility.
Upon call for the question, the motion oarrie1 4/1 with
Commi~sioner Wenzel voting in opposition.
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RECESS: 12:15 P.M. until 1:30 P.M.
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LI~rtARY BUDGETS (86-010, 86-020, 86-030, 86-040, 86-050, 86-060)
FY 78-79 - REVIEWED
Librarian Richard Joder stated that a large part of the increase
in the overall Library Budgets is accounted for in salary increases
and other personal services, the maintenance of the operation of
the two library vchciles which has been taken over, and the proposal
for beginning operation of a library branch in the North Naples area.
lie said that the latter item is the only new program which the
library has proposed for the new fiscal year..
The proposed new branch library was discussed with Mr. Joder
stating that, for the time being, it would be a stora-front operation
located within a mile or so of the intersection of the Trail and
Vanderbilt Beach Road. He said that a conservative figure of the
rental of a building is $4,500 per year.
Concerning salary increases, Mr. Joder stated that these were
figured by using the proposed formula of 5t overall increase and 2~'
merit increases. It was pointed out that these were budgeted figures;
however, there has been no actual decision regarding merit increases.
Mr. Joder concurred stating that there is no indication that anyone
will receive more than the 5\ increase.
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The question was posed as to whether or not there will be
grant funrs available for the construction of a new library facility
in the North Naples area with Mr. Joder statin9 that he has sent in
a request to apply for a construction grant. Another suggestion was
to include the branch in the capital Improvement Program with
Commissioner Wimer responding to Commissioner Brown's concarn over
borrowing money for something that is not really necessary, that
the people in North Naples supported the branches in Golden Gate
and Immokalee, also ~Iarco Island, with tax money and, if it is
necessary to fund the branch from the proposed Bond Issue for
Capital Improvements, that it will be done via this method.
Following additional brief discussion, Commissioner Wimer
moved, seconded by Commissioner Brown and carried 3/0 with
Commissioner Archer absent and Commissioner Wenzel abstaining,
stating his intent to vote for budgets only duri~g the public
hearings, that the Library Operations Budget, including budgets
for all library branches and functions, be tentatively approved,
ilG prcGented.
BUILDING MAINTENANCE BUDGET C08-0l0) FY 78-79 - REVIEWED
Mr. Lowell Raines, Maintenance Supervisor, stated that the
only increases in the Maintenance Department Budget over last
year are for additional personnel and for utilities. Discussion
followed concerning whether or not the County should continue
to perform the maintenance work at the Immokalee Clinic or
to have it contracted out. It was pointed out that the contract
with CHSI, which expires on December 31, 1978, could include
the cost of maintenance and it was the consensus of the Board
that County Manager Norman and Fiscal Officer Hall compile the
dollar amount for maintenance of the facility for the nine-month
period beginning with the date of the new contract - 1/1/78 until
the beginning of the next fiscal year. Mr. Hall explained how this
transaction would be reflected in the overall budget and ad valorem
tax figures.
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Mr. Raines explained that a full-time person is needed in the
Maintenance Department due to the increase in area to be maintained
because of the completion of the fifth floor in lhe Tower Building,
the Museum, and the Satellite Building. He pointed out the additional
equipment which is nee~~d and the reasons for the requests, citing
the need for equipment at the aforesaid new facilities and the
two new library branches. It was noted that there has been a
25% inCrp.flse in overall floor space which brought up the matter
of departmental charges based on square ft)otage which Mr. Hall
said could be done. Commissioner Wimer suggested that the idea
is a good one and could result in departments taking better care
of their facilities due to the fact that they would be charged
it. this fashion and that it might cut down on requests for larger
quarters.
Mr. Hall observed that, if the additional personnel was not
considered, th~ overall maintenance budget is an increase of 6~%
which is not sizeable when the increase in floor space is taken
into consideration. Commissioner Wenzel stated that he "can buy
6~%" increase. Mr. Raines stated that 10' of the increase is for
utilities. Mr. Hall stated that the matter of utilities is an item
that shou\d be taken out of the Maintenance Budget and placed in
General Government to bG prorated by floor space utilized by depart-
ment. Chairman pistor suggested that as soon as possible, when
figures are available, that the matter of prorating utilities be
divided according to floor area.
AIRPORT MAINTENANCE BUDGETS (65-010 AND 65-020) FY 78-79 - REVIEWED
Mr. Lowell Raines, Maintenance Supervisor, stated that the
rentals being taken in now are $4,699 annually and, in response to
an inquiry from Commissioner Wenzel regarding the Ford Motor Company's
use of an airstrip for testing purposes, Mr. Raines said that this
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would be against the State statute limitation of 55 miles per hour.
He said that the testing would have to be done on a private road
since the tests involve speeds up to 90 miles per hour.
Mr. Raines suggested that what is needed to increase the
revenue is a station manager to assess tie-down fees - a person
who could be given a slight reduction in rental of the property
in return for performing these duties.
Mr. Raines explained that there are necessGry repairs to be
made to the runway lights and some which have to be replaced.
Commissioner Wenzel recalled that the City of Everglades expressed
n desire to lease the Everglades Airport and inquired as to the
status of the negotiations. Commissioner Wimer stated that they
~hanged their mind in this regard when they found out what it
would cost to maintain it, adding the comment that the airports
have improved in physical appearance and maintenance. He suggested
that the idea of a station manager concept be further investigated.
Mr. Raines advised the Board that, as a result of a seminar
attended by his Secretary, matching funds were received to replace
two beacons, free striping for the runways, and the like, with
the possibility of additional matching funds for other lighting.
~lr. Raines commented that it is possible that :Jome of the budgeted
funds may be returned to the County if he is able to get funding for
some of the improvements necessary.
It was the consensus of the Board that the two Airport
Maintenance Budgets be given tentative approval.
PARKS & RECREATION BUDGETS (87-010 AND 87-020) FY 78-79 - REVIEWED
Mr. Rollie Rice, Parks and Recreat.ion Director, explained the
reasons for the proposed increases in the subject budget beginning
with the funds necessary for resurfacing the tennis courts. Com-
missioner Wenzel recalled that there is material stored at the
County Darn and suggested that it be used. Mr. Rice explained that
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July 28, 1978
this material was unsatisfactory and that the County has been
reimbursed ~or it. The possibility of using the material for
resurfacing driveways and possibly the airport runways was suggested
and will be investigated.
Tho discussion concerning the Parks and Recreation Department
Budget was temporarily halted to take up the following matter:
COOPERATIVE AGREEMENT WITH DIVISION OF FORESTRY RE FIRE PROTECTION
TO COLLIER COUNTY ACREAGE - UNOFFICIAL ACTION TAKEN TO AUTHORIZE
CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE AGREEMENT I ACTION TO BE CONFIRMED AUGUST 1, 1978
AFTER-THE-FACT
County Manager Norman advised that, due to the fact that the
Cooperative Agreement with the Division of Forestry must be executed
by August 1, 1978, it is being requested that subject Agreement be
authorized for execution by the Chairman this date. Mr. Norman said
that the advantage of executing the Agreement immediately is that
the cost to Collier County is reduced due to the fact that the
acreage involved in the Big Cypress land purchase no longer requires
coverage.
Commissioner Wenzel moved, seconded by Commissioner Brown,
that the Chairman be authorized to sign the Cooperatill'e Agree'nellt
with the Division of Forestry for fire protection of 824,950
acres of forest and wild-land within Collier County, and that said
authorization be confirmed during Regular Session August 1, 1978.
The motion carried 4/0 with Commissioner Archer not present.
Commissioner Wimer inquired of the representativo from the
Division of Forestry what lands are covered in the Agreement and
received the response that it covers all lands within the County
other than those involved in the Big Cypress Purchase inClUding
those within the City, noting that their dctivities are primarily
outside the city areas. If there is a fire in the Golden Gate
Estates area the Division responds, however, if a structure is
endangered the nearest fire district is called to respond.
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CONTINUED DISCUSSION RE PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT BUDGET
Mr. Rice explained what is included in the Contractual Services
item in the amount of $45,038 stating that the figure includes
the Summer Program help such as supervisory help, Officials,
private johns, dumpsters, and the like. He said that during the
coming year a fee will be charged in the summer program to help
offset the salaries of the personnel.
Chairman Pistor inquired if the School Board has renewed their
proposal to charge the County for the use of school properties
with Mr. Rice responding in the negative Gtatin~ that it is a
"dead duck" issue for the present.
County Manager Norman advised that a memorandum will be forth-
coming shortly from Mr. Rice which will give a breakdown between
the administrative costs, maintenance CostB and recreation costs
which may be of assistance when looking for future revenues in the
next budget. Mr. Rice said that increasing revenue will not be
easy since the department has not increased any of its programs for
the last two or three years, noting that the only possibility is
to increase the fees of the ongoing programs.
The matter of charging fees for the use of County parks was
discussed with Mr. Rice commenting that, in his opinion, there will
not be much of a problem charging a fee to Bayview Park when it
becomes a reality and that if the people are provided with decent
facilities t.hey will not mind paying a nominal fee for the use of
them.
Mr. Rice acknowledged that much of his equipment is stored
outside with Commissioner Wenzel pointing out that when the old
voting machines are disposed of, the Parks Department could be
assigned the area in which the machines are presently being stored.
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July 28, 1978
In summary, Chairman Pistor stated that if the subjeot
budget could be reduced even 2' it would be appreciated.
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The meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair - Time: 3:55 P.M.
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