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BCC Minutes 12/04/1981 W _---------:---------------.--.-.--.-------- 0 NaploS, Flotlda, Decembp.r 4, 1!>8l ~~T IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County Commissionera in &nd for the County ot Collier, and also acting ae the Coverning \ Board(8) of auch special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted busines8 herein, met on this date at 9100 ~.M. in workshop Session in Building -r- ot the courthoU80 Complex with tho followlng members proøenll VICE CII~IRM"HI Mary-Francoa Kruse CliUord wcr.zel Dav id C. Brown John ". plator C"AIRMANI C. R. "Ruu" Wimer ("bsant) ^LSO PRESENTI William J. Reagan, ClcrkJ Haureen ~cnyon, Daputy Clerk; Donald Pickworth, County ^ttorneYJ C. william Norman, County ManllgHI H.HOld Hall, Chie! Deputy Clerk; and Neil Dordll, Administrative Assistant. ACEND" 1. Report by County ~ttorn.y on lÐg~l limitations ro location ot County offices in :cgard to the "County seat". 2. Ross, Hardies, O' (tle{o, Bðbcock and p,H8ons' report And recommendation re proposed "impðct fft.S". DISCUSSION Rt LOC"TION OF COUNTY OFFICES IN REG"RD TO THE COUNTY SEAT - NO ACTION TAKEN. County Managor Norman atatod that, tollowing the Board's action ''!' regarding the Immokðlec Road site, the County "ttorney made him aw~re that the County Sent i8 East Naplea. Ho atated that aome ot the court recorda ora not availahlo, a~dinq that aomo of the tranacripta haye conflicting teatimony. He atat.ð that the initial idea wa. to look at ~tential land acquisition in the 1=medlnto ar~ð. He .aid that tho '_q_ 1 ~I)~ OG6 PAW: 368 --------~--------------------------------' '0' t December 4, 1981 .. ,--- -- -- --------- - -- -- - -- - - - -- --- - --- - --- bO~~ 066 PALi 369 prIce. I1round the present complex,'site wer,_ on large pieces with the front~go being on U.S. 4l or ~irport hood which is more oxpansivo than the Inter1C1r pro~ectlon.. He statod that the architects tollowed up Oil thaIr studies by talkin9 with property owners, acquiring accurato detailed information provided by the Public Works Division, and exploring the alternatIve and conGtructlon of the present aite, as woll as the higher cost, the urban devolopment and the expansion. He stated that this meeting is tor the exploration at the pre.ent county complex aite to expand and tor future development. Ho stated that, baßed on a ~. proposal made by Mr. Duvokot, a site :2 miles southeast of tho cOlllplh. on U.S. ~l near Naples Manor is also being explored. Mr. Bob Zimmerm~n ot H. J. R08s/Ehrenkrantz stated that ho has looked into construction ot varIous ~arcels, adding that Mr. pulitzer would relate the dotallø on each parcel. Mr. Curtiss pulItzer of H. J. R08s/Ehrcnkrantz stðted he would bo showIng the parcela in order of pre~Ðrence, adding that tho'total coat is on the right side of tho chart. He referred to Site -~- la the existing complex, adding that he has looked At varIou' ways to try and expand 'as well as accommOQðte the problems of drainage in the future. He atated that this aito ranged lowest ot all. He .aid that the lake could be aubstitutod tor soakage trenches so that the,re could bo an additIonal 2000 parking space. provided in a five story garage. "e stated that all of the buIlding- would have floors added to them and tho jail would be demolished and an 8 story high-rise would be built. Ho stated that land acquiøItion i. minimal based on hi. conver.^tlona with the property ownera. He atated that the conatruction cost would Pig. 2 . - -- --- -- -- - - -------~ - ----- - - ----- --- ---- f· '1..-"":....-. ., I ..,...........-. December 4, 1981 ------------~---------------------------- 'bo around 7.S million dollars, adding that there is no tuturebeyond 15 ~'eðr.. He said thðt from lIn environmontal Btanrtpolnt tho complex is a .~~od location with l~nd aVðil~bllity, but the land Burroundin9 the ,omplex ls extremely expensive. He øald that the garage parking would b~ 5.5 million dollara, the soakage trenches would bo 5250,000.00, and ~he jail ~uld bo l.3 million dollðrs. Mr. Norman stated that tho parking area would warrant another ~ght-of-way and asked Mr. Zimmorman to discuss this. Mr. Zimmerman stated that there would b~ a heavy traffic load due ~o an additional number ot vehicloo which would warrant an additional accesS beyond the two accesS ~ints that are th~re noW. To Hr_ ~ru8e'. question of whether lInyono had checked for land across the stroet for ð parking lot with a walkway over the rood, Mr. Zimmerman said th~t thiD h~~ boen tðkftn into consideration, but tho land prices woro'expenDive and the construction cost would bo twice a8 .uch, adding that it WftS not pursued any furthQr. ~r. pulitzer atated that in Site "6" thero would bo a two-story parkinq garage and a thr..-story justice centor. He statod that one story would be added to th. courthouse building and the jail would not be demolished, adding that tho total coat factor would be 5.2 million dollars. Mr. pulitzer said that in Site ·C" the,e would be an addition to the jail but there would be no addition to building "F". He aaid thot thia comt factor would be 2.7 ~illlon dollars. To Mr. NorDan's que.tion of property owners, Mr. pulitzer replied that there wore two propðrty owners with roteronco to Site -"''', -B-, rage ) &O~~ ,066 PALt 370 - - -.--- --- - - -- - - - - - - - - - _.- ---- - - -- - - -- - - - - -_. I t\o~X C5G PA~¿ 37f Decemher 4, 1981 . .. - _0- _ _ _ __ - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - -~- - - - - - - - - - - - -- -- ", ~ ----------------------------------------- .~ I . ' and -C-. He atated that in Ðite -^-, one propnrty owner is proposing a condominium office complox. He Baid that aite -D- and -t" has only one property owncr involvod. Ho stated that both Sites "D" and "£" hav." enough room for natural drðinage, adding that they are compatible in terms of øite criteria. Ho said thoro is groater visibility in "D" thftn in -£", it the high-rise is built. To Commiaøioner Kruse's qUÐstion of how many acros aro ln the drainage areas, ~r. Zimmorman statod approxlmfttoly five acros. ,. Commissionor pistor Baid that these polishing pondl are required as the County laws do not allow drainage from p~rking lots lnto t~e area. Hr. pulitzer stated that in Site "F" there is 33 acres whlch has two proporty owners. He sðid t~at this prope~ty h^~ a lot of advantaqes in torms of developm.nt at a purchase price at three million dollars. He said tllðt thero is about tour or five acrel of "ST· "rea which is cypress head. Ho statod that this land do~8 allow for the jail, adding that tho ~ain problem with the jail is tryin~ to move prisonors. He said that they now have to be movod in small quantity. He statod that in . two-story jail. prisonora could bL separated, whereby the onos that do not cause problems could be placed on the .~cond slory and the one. that cauae probloms could be kept on the first floor under closer aupervision with the quarda boing posted on the roof. He said that Sito "F" has plenty of vacant ¡and tor continued development in the future. Mr. pulitur .tated that pArcel "0- conli.t. ol 4'1 acr.. and haa two proper ty owners. He uid that thore would be trontaqe on "irport paqe 4 c~~ember 4, ¡gnl ----------------------------------------- 1 &01/ 066 PAr.< 3'12 t II------------------------------------~---- . ' . ~ra~ as ~ell .ø available land fo~ íutu~o growth. He Baid that thl. ra:ce1 WQuld be the best availablo \Jitho'ut going to hiqh-rhes and parking qarage.. To Mr. Norman'. question of whethor the addition of the complex is bein~ anticipated or not, Mr. pulitzer stated that there would be an adaition to the =useu~ and the motor pool, adding that the plans would call for foundations that would become high-rises in tho future, if nended. Mr. pulitzer stated that from a value standpoint Site "F- would be ~he best parcol. Commissioner Pistor atated. that he felt tht:. the parkinq :acilitles would be too far away, ðdding that he has received numerous , complainta regarding the parking ~s it is now. Ho also stated that the proposed parkinq garage 1a 'In e:'<trer.el~· high coat. Mr. Norman átated that Chairman Wimor requested tnat thiø ite~ bo placed on the ~genda for Docember 8 and December 15. Mr. Norman said ~hat he did not want to force a docls1on that ~ould not be approved, but asked if there had b..n sufficient informðtion given to provide a decision? C~mi..ioner Rruso stated that she was comtortable ~ith the site Þut had ~any questions in the future regardinq the construction. She .sked that tho members of tho bOðrd decide ~n " parcel to consider on Dece~bQr 8, 19B1. There was a gonerAl di.cuaaion r~g.rdinq the location of the parking lot concerning tho diatance that elderly people and employe.s ~u.; walk to get to the buildings. ....'1 e 5 --- .. - - - - - - - -- - ------ -. - - - - - - -- - - - - - - -- - ------ Decomber ~, 19~1 ~r)~~ C6ß PAL¿ 373 , . ThtHe bu1nej no further disCU8ølõn, it·,wa8 th'. consensus oe tho Board that Sit8 .F· bo considered at the December ß, 1961, me.ting. ......RECESS lOsOS ~.M. - RECONVENED 10tlS ".M.······ DISCUSSION REG~RDING ROSS, H~RDIE5, O'KEEFE, B~ßCOCK ~ND PARSONS' REPORT AND RECOMMENn~TION FE PROP05ED -IMP^CT FEES· - NO ~CTtON T,,~£N. County Manager Norman statod that there were no consultant. available for the meotinq, cdding that he would try to answer any quostlons. Mr. Norman stated that the principle of the lmpact feoS waa established for water and sower only, addlng that the County would noW ",. like to use the impact feaa for different servicea. Commissioner piator stated that he understood that the~e wore two commissioners opposed to the impact fee, adding that the County should be dividod into areAßJ those that do not want tho impact tee and tho.e that do. lie sa id that the poople should not be charged for somethlnq they do not want, but thoy should not receive any benefits either. He s~id thðt if tho impact foe8 were used tor parks, tho wholo district could be charged and the noW peo;)le coming in could be charged for growth in the futuro. He stated that the fair development at the prnsont orea could be calcult:ed, adding that the impact (ee could be decided ahead of time, .et up, and collected from that area. County Manager Norman statod that there i_ a different set of conditions 8urrounding parks and roads, adding that ho did not think that the county could be carved up and peoplo charged an impact e... Ho atated that it would not be wis. to got involved with neiqhborhood parks for lmpac~ Cees. He said that parks should be con.idered P.q. S ---------------------------------------- ........................, - - - - - - -- - - - - -.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - -- - - - - -.' Dec.m~er 4, 1981 dlstrlct parka or community parke, addlng that tho consultant thought that dl.trict was a better term a8 parkø deservo a defined are.. Commia.loner piator atated that an MSTU could bo set up for the present resident. to cover their talr ohare of the cost of development and newcomers could pay tho impact teo. He said that lf area. are set up that do not want Any impact f~eø, tho fair share of devolopment could be covered by an MSTU. Commissioner Wenzol stated that if a certain area already has parks, there i. no ..nse in making that area pay an lmpðct fee for oth~r ðreas. Commiaaio~er ~rU8e eKprcsspd tho opinion that if the people voted tor an impact fee, it would be voted down, but through an ~STU, people could be charged for parks. Commie.iontle pistor øtllted thc'lt If an ~f,TU ie IIsedt r,/lsidflnta coul~ be charged the tðir share valuo which would be deducted from the cOlt of building the parks or roads and the remaining lImount could be flqured over a poriod of years to deter~lne what to charge ne~~omers that move into the area. Commissioner Kruse notcd th£t the questionnaires that were returned to her indicated that only more beach acceasea were wanted and questioned if this item would be separated. Co~misaioner pi.tor stated thðt each item covld be separat.d, Adding th~t as far a8 Naples Cay is concorned that ls a county wide problem which could be covered by a bond iaDue over a 20 or 30 year period or a county p~rk could be tho proper way to resolve that problem, turther adding that new peoplo could be taxed accordingly. Ho Page 7 &O~~ 066 P~~t '!14 December 4, 1981 ,~._---------------------~----------------- f¡C~~ C5G PAL¿ 375 otated that N~pleD Cay i. a beach ~ed6sa tbot.could be used by ð great percentage of tho county. Commissioner ~rUGe stated th~t, according to the Ross, Hardie. repott, it indicates that the County need. ~ore parka, but doe. not .t~te what type of p~rks. County Manager Norman advised that thore i8 a pðrk plan that calls for five parka to serve urban aroa.. He said that each park would be d06igned to :ser....e a particlllaf recreation need ,,¡hlch would be basically tho same blueprint. He said that the Ross, "ardio8 firm indicated that .... the county need. to estoblioh what i8 needed in term8 of &veryone'. dosire. He stated that according to the study there is no basis for saying that this plan should be paid for by the people from a certain area, which means thero would ~p. a number ot MSTU's, plus the one that haa been eatablished to develop the capital plan. Hr. Normðn atated that the county has to dotermln how many people reside in tho dlstrlct, as well a8 the need, and the response from poople that may move into that district over ð period of timo, which is how the cur.cnt tax perc~ntage is der lved and the chlHge for the impact he. lie sa·id that tho impact (eo would be adopted In order to prevent ne~ property tax payors from being charged twice. Commissioner Wenzel atated that it thore were a vote on this issue, it would havo to be done on a dløtrlct basis as ar~as that already have parks would not vote tor an impact t.e. County Hanaqer Nor~.n stated that there aro district park. aa well as county-wido parka, adding that there 1. an agreement with the City of Naple. that says simple beach acce.s is not a county-wide .ystem. page 8 ..- -- - ------- ------------ --------- -------- I - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -'- \ Cacembar 4, 19n1 ---------- -- ------- .--- ----- -.------------------------- lid Øo .aid that Naplos Cay is county wid., but without a cooperative agreement with 'tho City, t~o County would not be able to applY imp~ct Commlsøloner Brown ata ted that thft people trom Immokalee would not uae Naples Cay or vote tor impact feea, adding that the onlY people that uso the park in Immokaleo are those trom NlIplea. Ho said that he . teo s . wa. against i~pact foea, adding that people would be charged $200.00 the first year and each yoar after, people would be charged marc and lIIore. 110 stated that impllct feOB could bo used for tho roads that are being destroyod by hc~vy equipmcnt driven by people tram outside the area, adding that, how~vcr, people ln Immokaloe would ~otpay to have roada ropllircd that have bc~n dostroy~d by Romeone else. Commiaaloner Plstor stated that ho had a report showing whllt each ':-:011 o! tho Count.y PðYS for taxes. lIe soid tt".a:, tho pooplo in Gol~en Gate pay les8 than 4\, North Naples pays over 22\, East Naples pays ~"" l'Iðrco Islðnd pays 17~. Immoklllcc pnys 2\, lJnd N.)ples Pays ~2'. _Commissioner Kruse stated that the lmp"ct fee Wð. not being discusscd, ~8 tho convorsðtion wns atill reverting back to the I'ISTU'a. She stated thlJt she did not teel thnt the Board should have any say regar~ing tin impact fco ð8 tho people should have II choice and should have tho right to vote on lame. County ~anðq~r Normon stntcd that it tho County dO~8 lI8 the consultanta adviso, the plan will bo adopted and the park. conatructed. Ho aaid thot the i~pact fee hð. to follow a commit~ent to precede with the pðrka, adding thðt the commitment has to be made first and then the pðqe 9 tlC~1. ()66 p~~¿ 3'fß I · o' !. J ---------------------------------------- December 4, 19~1 ~~r>1\ PEG r1l~t 3T1 l~µ~ct 1u~ ia imponeð. Ho .tated that what ianeedod Is a detailed good c~pital imrrovemcnt plan. Commissionor Kruse stated that at thlft point, the County i_ limited to tho parks. County M"nager Norman .tated that the consultants felt that parks would be the place to start. Commisoioner Wenzel stated that the baai- has been to make growth pay for growth, nððlng that the people already hore should not have to p~y a. they are not causing the growth. Commissionor Kruse stated that In the case of the jail, the County ';".. cannot ch~rgo newcomero for something that is needed now. She said \, that thiG should bo absorbed by tho peo~le now and the newcomers should~ still be required to pny thoir ohare. Commissioner Wenzel statod that the jail 18 needed becðu~e ot the new people coming into tho area. Co~mlssioncr ptown st~ted that the jail improvement should be paid for by the people that reside in the community, adding that growth pay. for growth. Commissioner Kruse atatfld that thore has been disc\Jssion between impact feos and ~STU's, addin; that there Is a dlftereoce hetween the two. She stated th~t at this poInt she la oppoaed to the impact fee.. Sho 8tðtcd that it would not aolvo the current probl.~a, addIng that it may work for p^rks, but th.r. 1. a lot of comlox proble.. that would need another computer system to work them all out. ****** Commia.ionor Brown wa. excuaeð at lllOO ~.~. ...... Page lO ----------------------------------------- ------------------------- -------- - -- - -_. D~cember 4, 1981 Commlpsioner plator stated that there should be ~STU's so that a reaøonable amount of cost could be charged to tho people In the area whero the sorvice i8 given. Mr. Jim Smith, speaking trom th~ audience, stated that according to what he understðnda, a portion wl11 bo acqulred from tho peopl~ for a fair share and then the lmpact fee will haY. to be adjusted through ad valorem taxes, Adding that anyway that you look at it, it 18 still a tax. Mr. DAvid GrDh~m, rosidont of Golden Cate, stated that he felt that the newcomers should be the onea to pay, adding that tho county now hlls to pay $15,000.00 for a roport that .a,~ the county cannot· impose the impact f.ees in the way that they want. Mr. Graham stated that, in checkinq rocord" neW construction is baing done by the people that ðre illroødy in t~c c(.:mty end relocllting to anothor ðrel'l. n. said that peoplc from the north that movo here arc buying oxisting homes or renting. County Hanðqor Norman stated th~t irroqardless whother the newcomora are building new homes or movlng into existing dwelling units, they aro still creating the need for additional units. lie atateð that an impact fee i8 not golng to solve the probloms and it would cost more than it was worth, adding that a collection feo would be 2\ of what is raised. To Commissioner ~ruse'. queation regllrding who pays the impact fee if you sall a home, County ~ttorney pickworth said that the feo would ba included in tho price of the homo that is b.ing sold. raga 11 &C~1t C6G P'\~¿ 318 - -- - - -- -- - - - - - - - - -- -- - ------------------.. 1_.- _.___ _--- - _- - - -- --0- ------ ------- - - --- December 4, 1981 f¡t~~ CßG UJ,¿'319 Mr. David Gr~ham stated that thoro should be a renters fee, adding that impact toes in Coll~or County would not help. commiBsionor WQnzol atatod that ha asked tho consultants if there wore other areas in the country where impact fees are consiðered legal, adding that he was ~old some cases wont to the supreme Court but the consultants did not know the outcomo. County Attornoy pickworth statod that a studY had been made rogðrding cases on impact foos, adding tha~ tho only ca~e In the State ot Florida that went to the supremo Court waS tho City of Dunedin. ". statod that new guidollnea were establishod for impact tees rcgardioq that parcticular case which was on water and sower. He said that thero has boen nothing done with parks, ~ððing that this County is w~y behind on parka. He advised that no one ca~ be charged more than their proportionate shore, and the rost would have to be funded by the people by means of raising taxeB. He said that thoso impact fees have to be put in a aeparate fund. Commissioner ~ruae atated that this item shóuld be on the December 22, 1981, øgenda to decide whether tho County should stop at this point or continua with ~ODa, nOLJios firm. County Manager Horman stated that parks would be an easy item as each area of tho County could be looked at to determine what the needs are and impose an impact (ee for that area. Ho stated that the impact feo could be limited to partlcular areas and the money would be handled tor that area. Commis.ioner Kruse atated thðt she did not think it should be decided against having a park, adding that the Commission should not Page 12 0" _ - - - - -- - --- - - -- - - - - - - - --' - - - - ------------ I ----------------------------------------- December 4, 1981 doeldo for tho public. sha atotad thot o.orybodY naoda parka, oddlng thot tho County would onlY bo aaklng that tho pooplo pay for .ho.. Sha ata.ad thot aho did not fool tho roport by .ha eonaul.anta 10 worth SI5,QOO.00 ond did not know whathor to purauo It any furthar, atatlng ahe did not Kno~ how tar 1n debt the county would be. Com~iaaioner Wenzel stated that ho did not teel the report w~8 worth the ~oney e1ther. Commissioner piator stated that the Roas, nardies p.opl~ should be 1nvitod to the next meeting 60 th~t they can provide ~or. details, adding thot a..rybodY would thon bo ablo to undoratand tho principle of the Impact foea battar and what tho compllcatlona would bo. He atatod thet It would bc bettor to ha.e a wor.ahoP .oatlng on Dec..ber 11 aftor the reqular meetinq. Co~~16ßionor ~rus. informed County Manaqer Norman that a ~orkshop ..oa to ba aet up for Daco.ber 22. 19B1. after tho regular m..tlng If there ~aø g01nq to be a full boðrd. She sald that if Dece~ber 22, wa. not convenient, the workshop could be set up for oece~bor 21, 1981. . . . . . . . . . Thero boinq no further businoss for the qood of the County, the ,~ workshop was adjourned by Order of tho Chair at 111~O ~.~. paqo 13 .- ,. ~ C5G f~C,è 380 . '''; ;:., I . .II .~ ---- - - - - -- - --- -- - - - -- - --- -- - - -- - ---- - -- - ..- ~!; ~. ,