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BCC Minutes 12/08/1981 S 1itoplès, Flodda, December a, 19B1 L~T IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Chairman having issued the call and t~c Clerk having given due no~ice ao pr~scribeð by ordinance No. 75-16, .~~, Board of County Commissioners in and for the County of Collier met in SPECI~L SESSION on this date at 2:35 P.M. in Building wF· of the courthouse Complex with the following members pre.ent: CH~IRM~N: C. R. wRuss· wimer VICE CH~IRM~N: Mary Frances Kruse Cll Hord wenzel David C. Brown John ~. piator <^bsent) ALSO PRESENT: William Reagan, Clerk1 Harold L. Hall, Chief Deputy Clerk/Fiscal Officerl Maureen Kenyon, Deputy Clerk1 Donald pickworth, County AttorneYl William ~orman', County Manager1 Neil Dorri11, Administrative Assistant, Grace spaulding, Administrative Aide, and Ch~ef Deputy Raymond Bðrnett, Sheriff's Department. >'GENDI\ I. Further Consideration of Courthouse Expansion plans II. Adjournment ORIGIN~L SITE PLAN (PRESENT COUNTY COMPLEX) DESIGNATEv FOR EXPANSION PROGRAM RE JUDICIAL CENTER. ''1'- Chairman wimer atat~d that there are questions in the Commissioner's minds regarding the courthouse oxpansion, adding that rather than waiting for another week or two, he wanted to discuss edch commissioner's f.elings on the subject. Commissioner ~'n%ol ot¡teð that hQ 10 fer Item -A·, adding that when the project originally started It was the Sheriff that indicated Pl~e 1 &C~~ C6G PACt ~49 . ".."~.;~,,.--'-""-'-'""~'""~"""""'-'-" I I ¡. December 8, 1981 ~Q~~ C5G fAct 4.50 that ,he needed more .pace a. the State and Federal Agencies laid the jail needed upgrading. He stated that he felt the jail was the oryly item thðt neoded to b~ ~xp~~d~~ and p~sslblY the addition of threc storie. on Building ·F" for future space. Commissioner Wenzel said that, in going over the present site lay-out, the right-of-way could be purcha~ed to accommedate l,eee cars which would meet the county's need until 1992. He indicated that the next generation could assume the responsibility of purchasing more land or additions. Commisshner Kruse stated that she was' not in favor of the courthouse expansion when it began, adding that she waB told that the ..... jail h.d to be built. She stated that there has been a lot of money spent on a premise that the Courthouse expansion is being pursued. Sht said that if the County is going to plan ahead for the future, the land should be purchased so that i~ will be availabl~ when needed. She said that if the County is going to look at alternative sites for such an expansion, there is a potential for a DRI impact, adding that this could take another 18 months and would cost an additional $4,908 a day. Commissioner Wenzel stated that as the County growS there will be a need for satellite facilities,and Commiss\oner Kruse stated that she would be willing to have satellite facllties if they were very minor and specific. Chairman Wimer stated that there are already satellites through the branches, adding that the Immokale. land is owned, Harco is being leased and North Naple. i. being leased. He stated th~ he would lik. to .ee additional land acquired for more branch.s. PIge 2 - \ I . I .. I DQc.m~~r 8, 1981 C~mml.sloner Brown stated that during the w.rkshop session, of 12/4/6l he had halfw~y decided on plan wrw but was not sure of the 36 u~llion dollar figure. He stated that he voted in this morning's ..ssion to go ahead with plan ·F·, but was not satisfied with it, addinq that he would like to see the expansion explored more. He said lhat he cann.t see placing the burden of 36 million dollars on the people of Collier County. He stated that it is costing the County ¢4,U0é a day for the specialists for the project. He said that the jail should be built and three stories added to Building ·F·, adding that this would be enouqh for the taxpayers of Collier County to stand. County Manager Not'lan said that tt".e cOllcept that the County was following was to concentrate the initial effort upon the architects to develop a long-range plan once the need for future space waS c~~~~li~hed. P.c oaid that In tc~ms o! the cost, it nceded to be decided what the most cost e Uective way of proceeding would be or what ~ould be done in "tagl'!s. He stated that it is now for the Board to decide which way to go. He sa id that he had been working under the premise that the Board had directed the initial construction phase be oriented to a 10 year program, adding that the contracts had called for the Ma~ter plan and the expandability to cover a 15 year period. He stated that, if development continues to occur around the complex in the next ten year~, ~here will not be any land available. Chairman Wimer stated that the thrust that he received from the Board, as well as his own opinion, Is that each Commissioner wants to plan ahead for the future, but with the realization that the cost of the development to build an expansion to cover the next 19 or 15 years Page 3 &O~ ( C6G W.è45f -..... .... ~""~ De~ember B, 1981 ~1)~1. 06ß rÀ~t'452 would cause a great burden, adding that in the future there would be ð lot more people to carry that tax load. He stated that the Board ~ånts to expand, as necessary, but in a frugal manner and to possibly acquire land for the future. He stated that the land that is now owned should be utilized on a growing progressive plan to the best of its ability. Commissioner Wenzel stated that as a commissioner or a clti1en he would never vote for a 36 million dollar bond issue. - County Manaqer N~rman said the initial emphases was on the Master plan which takes into consideration long term noeds, but the short term .... ability has to be cut back, adding that these two items should be merged. He stated that once there is an agreement on the Master plan and the le or 15 year expansion has been designed, a decision could bo made on cutbacks without creating unduly costs in the future. He said that it may be possible to build a new jail and a couple of courtrooms, but continue t$ u~e the courtrooms th~t are a¡ready available and continue to use the old jail in a reduced way, adding that the office space expansion CGuld also be limited. He said that he wa~ hoping that the Master plan issue could be settled, and concluded by stating that perhaps the architects could design plans for 15 or 2e,illion dollars. commissioner Wenzel stated that he felt the architects could dosign plana with tentative figures for the jail and the 3 floor addition to Building -F- to pre.ent to the Board. Commissioner Kruse øtated that she would like to see the land acquired as it will not go down in price and WGuld then be available for County use when needed. Also, the expense of constructing · building is not the only factor involved, adding that there is heating, Page 4 ---~ D~ceMber 8, 19B1 ~~r conditioning, and maintenance t. be considerod. Gha scid that, by ~~;11ding for the future, the Cou~~y would be hurt by the operational bill of the ad valorem tax base. Commissioner wenzel questioned if Commissioner Kruse was saying that the County shøuld remain with plan _~w, but buy the land for Plan -F.? Commissioner Kruse said she was referring to something similar, ~dding that she did not want to pass this problem to the nex~ board. Commi3sioncr Wenzel stated that, according to Sheriff Rogers, this 1ssue waG being forced on the c~unty because of the StatÅ“ and Federal Government mandates. Deputy Chief Ray Barnett stated that it is possibl~ for a ~ourt order to be issued for the County to build a jail Immediately. He said that, since the County has been doing this study on the expansion, /:.:,\I.:.suito hc.ve not been fi~,ed rcC;o:.rding the jail expansion, c.ddi..g that the jail has beén outgrown and the Federal and State titandards are not b~ing met. He said the County is on the border line regarding the housing of prisoners. Chairman wimer stated that he has no problems in acquiring land for the CourthQuse or the branches, adding that we should grow for the future". Cømmissioner Wenzel stated that for an additional 34 acres, it 'fill cost 3 million dollarm Ln3t would jus~ lay for future expansion. "0 said he feels that plan -A· is the best one for the present needs. County Manager Norman stated that irregardlesD~f what plan is considered, the new jail should be located in accordance with the Haster Plan that goes with the ultimate .ite development, adding that p~". 5 ~ M~~ C6G fA~i 463 "'.~"-~~",.~..._..~"""- ",,-, '~'~'--"'~>'~--'"'-'- I I; Decemb~r e, 1991 &O~~ C5G PA~¿ '454 if expansion is crowded into one place, the Mast~~:~lan could not b. carried out in terms of the larger site, if it was adopted. He said that whatever is built should be built assuming that the total site il the ultimate goal. Commi~sioner Wenzel questioned if the County needs would be met ,until 1992, if the new jail was built and the old one renovated. County Manager Norman stated, -Now, adding that if a new criminal juktice center was built, the needs could be met for additional office space~ He stated that his concern was to locate the jail properly in order to serve the ultimate combination of activities regarding the ~ most efficient arrangement. Commissioner Wenzel stated that one building for a jail and combining the sheriff, the courtrooms. the state attorney's office and the public defenders office, would leave an increasingly large amount of,space in Building ·F", which should meet the County's needs until 1 99" 0 r long e r . , To Commissioner Wenzel's question of the price of the Justice Center, County Manager Norman replied 21 million dollars, adding that it could be phased out ove~ a period of tim~. Chairman Wimer stated that phasing is the key factor, adding that the County should let today pay for today and tommorrow pay for tommorrow when and if the need is there, adding that the Board wants to plan for tommorrow, but not pay for tommorrow today. He questioned whether the Master plan, when completed, would be the final plan. County Manager Norman said that when the County actually builds on the Page 6 0- t'ecembor 8, 1981 :',«.1",1 according to the Mt.s\:er. plan, tho:., County would be cemm'l.:ted t.· tho '~roximity of the ~dditions in the future. , Neil Dorrill, Administrative Assistant, stated that an excellent example would be the jail which 1s architecturally programmed for 400 cells, adding that it would be ludicrous to build a 400 cell jail that has 200 empty cells during the first year. He said that the Master plan provides that there be three schemes with detail, giving the land ~~nftguration of possibly the first fiv~ years, the next five, and the last five years, adding that there would have to be room for expansi~n. Comm1.ssioner Wenzel asked the County Manager if he w~uld have a ~iroction to f~llow i( the Board were to set a maximum figure of 20 ' mUll-" dollars, including the acquistion of the additional land? Mr. Bob zimmerman of Ross/Erhrantz stated that it w.uld be G¡ff~cult to figure what 20 million dollars could buy, adding that the ~,mp.":tant fl\cter i R that the :1astc;r plan process has five, ten and fifteen year incremental plans. He stated that there would be dollar ~mo~nt& attached and a review at the time of the Master plan process. Ho .~id that there would be flexibility in terms of the location of the build Ings. To Commissioner wimer's question of the cost of the Master plan, ''!- It,. 0\ Dar~'l Bailes of pol1:zi/Heery stated that the total cost through '~he Master planing phase, at which time the board would adopt one of three options, or a combination, would be approximately $168,000. He said that Polizzi/Heery was not included in the $168,000. Count~ ~anager Norman stated that the Master plan needs to be ~:f~ncd, adding that it 1s more than just a layout. He said that it 1s Pig e 7 &O~~ 056 PA~t455 December B, 1981 M~~ C6G FACt 45'6 the analyses the County has been going th~GU9~' a' floor plan layout ~f what is to be built, and a number .f optional planG, adding tha~ ~he finaì product will be a Master site plan and the flo.r plan layout .. that all the buildings will be in the initial construction phase. He said th~t the Master plan WQuld last for 15 years. Mr. zimmerman said that there would be three schemes which w~uld require owner approval. He stated that the owner would indicate at the five year increment what is intended to be done and the associated construction dollar figure used, adding that this w~uld again ba done .,. at the 1e year and 15 year period. To commissiener Wimer's question of the cost for this progr3m,·~:. zimmerman stated that the total cost from the time polizzi/Heftry came on board to ~o the questionnalre and interview through the end of phase I, and the associated cost for the architectural engineering services through the Master Plan, would be $sSø,eøø. Neil Dorrill, ^dmlnsitrative ~ssistant, stated that the detailed budget line item is $163,0001 however, phase II is n~t budgeted because it is contingent on a Bond Issue. r~unty Manager Norman stated that Phase I was part ~f tne 1977 Bond Issue. To Commissioner Wimer's question of whether the ~aster plan hao any sltos for branches, C$I\Tlty Manager Norman replied wNo, that Is not part of the present contractw. Ug(t 8 ",,~"""'.__,",","''''''''._'M'''·_·_'''''''_-">'-'·'''''- CQcombor 8, 1981 Commissioner Brown moved that no land be purchaßed, contain the 'county. on the property that iß presently baing used, the jail be . uuilt as orginallY planned and, also, accommodations be built for the - judges. Commissioner Wenzel stated that he felt the right-of-way should be purchased fer parki"g with Commissioner Brown remarking that he did not . ~hink that anything should be bought. Commissioner wimer stated that he thought the motion should be uithh61d and let the architects come back next week. Commissioner Brown stated that tho County is paying $4,000 a day for their services, but he would hol~ his motion until next weok If that was Chairman Wimer's preference. Commissioner Wimer asked if the Staff and Consultants would like (~ como back next week or if they pref~rred a motion today? County Manager Norman replied that he understood Commissioner Drown wanted to adopt plan .~. as the Master Plan slte. He stat~d that if that is tne Board's decision thore is no need to come back next week. Co",missloner Wimer stated that a key element he did not see 'in the plans'~as activitie~ for branches which would dramatically effect the pl."oscnt site. County Managr.r Normar. :!Itated that the consultants could contact each of the departments t. determine what could be located in a satellite situation and then the square footage could be reduced, ~dding that it is basically known what can noW be done on the present ~it.. He said that, if th~ Beard desires t. use satellite locations to PaC]. 9 ~o~~ C5G FAr.¿ 451 ...-....-""".....'.....' ,.,"~-'-- ,. \ , . ," .1.... " December 8, 1981 W~K C6G PA~t '45"8 the maximum, he would return to the Board witnaddltonal informatien :.... " I regarding same. Chairman wimer stated that, in looking at satellite location~, there is a need t. look beyond today's technolugy which Is difficult te do. He said that satellite locations are cheaper and closor for / people . Commissioner Kruse stated that satellite facilities should be a county-~ide operation which benefits all citizens of the area or there would be arguments regarding taxes. County Manager Norman aaid that Mrs. Kruse's point was well taken as the County c.uld become Inv.lve4 in double taxation, adding that each satellite would have to be treated as a non-county wide activity. Commissioner Brown stated that hi. motion stands. Commissioner Wenzel stated that he wanted to know the cost of plan "1\" next week. Commissioner Brown stated that he wanted the new jail and thre~ stories Qr. Building wr". County Manager, Norman reported that the architects and the Sheriff wt.\ted to see the cQurtrooms and the jail next to each other, adding that ~nder plan ,,~w this was not considered. Mr. zimmerman stated that there would be an addition on the pre~ont courthouse that wouJð be part of the new justice center. He said the jail would be 8 stories, adjing that the cost would be 19\ more than a 2-story jail. Commissioner wenzel stated that the jail could be designed for 8 stories, but .nly 2 stories built at this time. i'age 11 "--,,",~~,",,,..,-,-----.,.~. ^........-- D~~embe~ e, 1981 <.:~.lof Deputy Barnett stated that thore is a need for 400 cells, c.~ding that a jail is more costly to operllte when it is built up\lard rather than .ut~ard. He stated that the idea is to keep the ja1~ connected with the courtro.m in order to keep the prisoners inside to prevent escapes. Chairman wimer stated that Commissioner Drown's motion is for expansion on the present courthouse property and to come back with rll'ns fo r tha t . Commissi~ner Wenzel seconded the motion, adding that there could b) some revisions made on the schmatlc drawings. ~ Thore was a general dl&cu~sion iegarding p.ssible county courtrooms, sheriff's facilities, etc. for satellite locations. Chairman wimer stated that Staff was asked if they wanted to come bbCk next week, adding tha~ the motion is to expand the pre~ent courth.use prope~ty only. Commissioner Kruse stated that the County has some one story ~uildings that can no longer be devel~ped upward because standards have changed, a1dlng that there is no way of knowing if, these dosigns will be ~-..veloped, as¡ standards may change in the future. 'Tþere being no further discussion, èhairman wimer called for tho ~u.stion with' ~he ~otlon passing 3/1, (Commissioner Kruse opposed). t' . * * i ;'...W ¡ 1 M~~ 066 PA~t 459 .... ~.. """'I 0' 4'" ",c .. " . ..---.-....--......'......'.'..'...' * ·':tr ,*.;..v~..,,"'"__,·"·~&__~··~·<_·,,'···,· .-.- Decemb.r e, 1981 tlO~1< 056 f"~¿ 460 ~ Th~'o being no furthcr bus1nesø for the 900ð of the County, the meetLng was adjourned by Ordor of the Cha1rat .3:49 p.M. BO~RD or COUNTY' COMMISSIONERS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BO^RD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UN DE ITS CONTROL \ h þ;"t " ", ..,." ",,' ) - ;!~ ,. P.ge 12 - ., .. . . . . . ___..,....._...,""'~.,".,""'._..--....."..."".".,,-.,...-..._.,'A~.W - ,...,..".........-