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BCC Minutes 12/02/1985 S - - - '. ') Naples, Florida, December 2, 19A5 LET IT BE REHEHBERED, that the majority of the Board having given approval and the Clerk having given proper notice in accordance with Ordinance No. 75-16, the Board of County Commissioners in and for the County of Collier and also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing boardCs) of such special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9,00 A.M. in SPECIAL SESSIOR in Building "F" of the Courthou.e Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present, CHAIRMAN' John A. pistor VICE CHAIRMA!h Anne Goodnight Frederick J..Voss Max Hasse C. C. "Red" HOlland ALSO PRESENT, James C. Giles, Fiscal Officer, Maureen Renyon, Peputy Clerk, Donald B. Lusk, County Manager, Neil Dorrill, Assistant County Manager: Tom Kuck, Public Works Administrator, Robert Fahey, Solid Waste Director: Dr. Polkowski, Health Department Director, and Nancy Israelson, Administrative Assistant to the Board. AGENDA Presentation by Professor Rappe of Sweden regarding emi.sions and air pollution. PR!:SENTATIOR BY PROnSSOR RAPPE or SWEDD R!: !:MISSIORS , AIR POLLUTIORS Professor Christoffer Rappe of Sweden stated that he has been the Professor of the University of Umea since 1970, the dioxin activities were started in Mayor June of 1971, and since being there he has published about 80 scientific papers. He stated that he is engaged in International activities regarding a document on dioxins. He stated that he is concerned with Municipal Solid Waste and is also working with cancer agencies regarding dioxins. 8e stated that they receive grants from the Government to work on studies for dioxins. 8e reported that he is working with the State of California and the State of New Jersey doing 80m. analytical work on soil samples, adipose tissue and blood. He stated that he has a contract with General Electric and contracts with the French government and Germany. He noted that there is a lot of work being done in Sweden on Municipal Solid Waste due to the IIOratorium. Professor Rappe referred to an overhead projector, noting that lOOK 091 PAGt 87 Page 1 -..,--",-........ "' -~'I," """"'~;' ._¥"'"".,"'",.;;.,""'''"''''''''',..'___",'"'.......,~"''~." . , i ,r · lOOK 091 PJr;r 88 December 2, 1985 there are over 75,000 isomers and there is a very large difference in toxicity between isomers, adding that he is specialized in doing this type of analysis. He noted there are very larger variations in toxicity between animal species like the guinea pig and the syril hamster, adding that the syril haMster can handle 5,000 tiMes more dioxin without having adverse effect than the guinea pig can. He stated, with reference to samples fro. incinerators, ~'oxin equivalents are being counted, adding that there are only 12 isomers that are very toxin and they are called the "Dirty Dozen". 8e reported that based on animal data, there is an allowable daily adult inta~e which i. in the range of one to five pq. per kw. a 'day. He stated that the dioxin equivalent. have been developed by people of New York State, Department of Health, adding that there are conversions that are based on the 2,3,7,8 which is tetrachloride dioxin, a painless and .o.t toxic dioxin. He stated that after analyzing fly ash from different incinerators, he found and quantified dioxins. He stated that incinerators should be tested for toxic and non-toxic isomer. and sampling should be done by analytical methods. Profeßsor Rappe referred to different analysis regarding hazardous waste incinerators and dioxins and isomer.. He noted that he made a careful study on dioxins under different condition., normal conditions, high temperatures, low temperature., and with additional supplemental fuel, adding that independent of the temperature at all times, there was good burning conditions and the level of dioxins were basically the same. He stated that a model was made of how the dioxins survive in the environment, adding that in comparison one meal of salmon gives 1,000 times more dioxin than any contaminated area in Umea, noting that direct exposure by inhalation was marginal. He referred to other data received from incinerators in Sweden, noting that in October 1984. the levels for dioxins were at 88 and during the winter the incinerator was worked on and when the second test was taken it came down and when the third test was taken, it showed that the emissions were reduced by almost 50. He noted that very simple changes reduced the emissions. He reported that during installation, the levels are very high and then they come down. He noted that industrial incinerators were analyzed which showed that there is just as much emissions from these as there is from hazardous waste incinerators. 8e referred to the difference in chlorine levels, noting that there is a large difference in municipal solid waste incinerators and PVC which has about 57' chlorine. Page 2 - - - - .. .. December 2, 1995 J Professor Rappe stated that when the Swedish moratorium was issued, the EPA had information that the incinerator was a source to dioxins, but there was also data from other industries that had not been reported to the EPA. 8e noted that about 3 weeks ~90, EPA issued a dioxin strategy which indicates that they are discussing many other Sources of dioxins in the environment. He noted that they are checking into chlorine which is used to bleach the paper in Scandanavia, adding that this is a major industry. 8e noted that there are higher dioxin levels in the southern part of Sweden than there are in the northern part, yet the incinerators are in the northern part of Sweden. 8e stated that the EPA is also checking into leaded gasoline, drinking water, coal burning, peat burning, wood burning, and oil burning. 8e noted that it has been determined that peat burning gives off less dioxins than wood burning. 8e noted that to decrease the emissions that have been found is to decrease the chlorine content in the municipal solid waste, reduce the paper containing chlorine and reduce the dry cleaning solvents. He stated that another way would be to increase the temperature or have the optimua amount of oxygen in the incinerator. He stated that he has found the best way is to improve the turbulence in the incinerator. He stated that equipment could be added to clean the gases, like an electrostatic precipitator which removes about 25-301 of the dioxins. He noted that another technology is to take out all the moisture which reduces the dioxins. He stated that another possibility is to add limestone to the systea. Professor Rappe said that 35 people froa the hospitals that live in or around Umea have been analyzed for dioxins, a~ding that there should be different levels for people depending on how close they live to the incinerators, but the study showed that the people that live 100 ailes off-wind from the incinerator have the same levels as the people that live in Umea with regards to dioxins'and adipose tissue. 8e noted that mother's milk was also analyzed and it was determined to be the same as the levels that were found in adipose tissue, adding that there is no direct connection between the levels that were found in mother's milk and the municipal i,\cinerator. Commissioner Voss stated that he gathers that Professor Rappe feels that there is no particular danger to the people as a result of the incineration of garbage, particularly the fluidized bed or the mass burn technique. ~OOK 091 PAGE 89 Page 3 --.--. --'"'''W'''1<''''~'''',"I",.~",,,,.''''H~'_",,,'''''_'''''''''''''''''___'''''''''''''__""""'~'-''''";'''''''"\''.''''''''''~'''''''" ".~,".", lOOK 091 PAr.t 90 I Professor public. Commisisoner Voss questioned if PVC is soluble as it is used for waterlines, to which Professor Rappe stated that it is not soluble in water, adding that a special solvent is needed to dissolve it. Commissioner Voss stated that burning breaks PVC down and the chlorine COmes free and causes the problem with dioxir~, to which Professor Rappe agreed. Commissioner Hasse questioned What the difference is between a fluidized bed and mass burning with regards to dioxins? Professor Rappe stated that both systems can be good or bad, but with appropriate cleaning equipment both systems are equivalent. He stated that the most important thing is the training and education and if people do not know how to operate a system appropriately, it ~ill not work to its best capacity. In answer to Commissioner Hasse, Professor Rappe stated that the dioxins can be reduced by maximizing the burning to 1001. He noted that if the incinerator needs to be cleaned, it can be done by burning peat or mineral oil. Commissioner Holland asked Professor Rappe to explain the moratorium, and Professor Rappe stated that the EPA is suggesting a mortorium on new incinerators in Sweden, which means that no new incinerators will get a permit. He stated that incinerators that are operating, under construction or have permits can continue, but no new ones can be issued. He noted that the Government has stated that after doing studies they will respond by May 31, 1986, as to Whether new incinerators should be allowed in Sweden or not. He stated that he feels that the moratorium will be lifted and an incinerator will be allowed to be built if the dioxin levels can be lowered to a certain point. Commissioner Holland questioned what the watertable is in Sweden, to which Professor Rappe stated that he did not know because their water is obtained from the reservoirs, but in Italy, their watertable is very close to the ground level and there was no dioxins traced in the water, adding that it does not penetrate the soil. Commissioner Pistor questioned why the moratorium was called if the dioxins of f~ is much hi1her than the emissions of the gas, to which Professor Rappe stated that when the EPA issued the moratorium the dioxin. were found in the mother'. milk and in the emissions from December 2, 1985 Rappe stated that there is no direct danger to the Page .. .. - .' .""-"'--"--~"--"""~--""-';'''"'''"'''''-'''~ ·······"'"·.._..."''''''..._-".._,_·'''"·_'''','''',",,,,,-_'.....,,''Nf..,''',,,'·H'~I""-"Uq.e"'·""'; ."."''';''_'';'" -----","'","'" - .. .. , I December 2, 1985 t the solid waste incinerator, adding that since that time more data has been generated. Professor Rappe stated that in the earlier 1970's, Denmark and Sweden had four or five incinerator. together and now there are 80 of the.,. Mrs. Jeannie Langshide spoke in oPposition to this system indicating that there has not been enough information presented and that there should be a representative from the other side indicating the dangers. She noted that the studies that have been cited are not conclusive. She indicated that she does not want an incinerator program as it is a cause for breast cancer. She noted that ShA would like to know if this syte. would be an environmental trigger? She stated that chlorine can be a poison and there are numerous studies that have proven these facts. She said that this will create breathing difficulties for people and there has to be concerns taken into consideration for the fish that the people in the area eat. She stated that she wants a scientist to speak indicating that the County will be putting poisonous material into the air and there are many scientists that believe this. Mr. George ~eller slated that a lot of the County trash comes from dumpsters and during the rainy season, rain gets into these dumsters which makes the solid waste very moist, and questioned if they would have a problem with the water? Professor Rappe stated that the system will dry it, and it should not make any ~ifference. Mr. Bill Barton thanked Professor Rappe for his presentation and questioned if dioxins perpetuate themselves forever or if they have a natural process that breaks them down when they are released into the atmosphere: also if limesoda can be used to control dioxins? Professor Rappe indicated that he is not too technical on the cleaning equipment and what type of lime is available. 'Profeuor Rappe stated that during ," a transport, if dioxins are transported in the gas phase, they could be photochemical degradated. Mr. Johanson stated that the mass burn plant involves a technology that recycles part of the plant so that when it comes back, it has less oXygen in it and he is wondering if this helps or hinders the dioxin content? Professor Rappe stated that there is data on both sides and the particular system would have to be started to get information on it. Mr. John Beebe questioned if the County decides to implement a lOOK 091PAGt 91 Page 5 'I ___.._"";';."_...._."',.""_.,.__"--.....,_""~,_"'"'''-''',~,;_;,,.""."''''~ aOOK 0911'1(,£ 92 December 2, 1985 sY8tem for the disposal of waste, will there be any significant haza~d to the public health of the citizens of Collier County froD utilization of the processes under consideration? Professor Rappe stated that in his opinion the answer is "No". Professor Rappe stated that their incinerator was built in 1970 and was one of the first ones in Sweden, adding that since that time there has been new technology and now with the moratorium, people are interested in producing good incinerators. Mr. Beebe questioned if there is any co~parison between the landfill and th. incinerators, to which Professor Rappe stated that there is no comparison and with the landfill there i. the problem of the leaching of different chemical~ a~ the problem of spontaneous burning which is the optimum conditions for dioxins. Mrs. Ada Williams stated that the presentation of one side has been given and she would like to hear the other side. She stated that this area is a fishing area and this can be affected by the dioxins. She stated that she does not understand putting the dioxins into the air. Professor Rappe stated, with reference to the fish, there is a big difference between the waters of the Baltic Sea and the Gulf of Mexico, adding that there is a continuous flow of water out of the Gulf of Mexico which does not occur in the Baltic Sea. Mrs. Williams stated that nothing should be done until May 31, 1986, and after the moratorium has been resolved and the outcome is known, then the Commission could decide what to do. Mr. Roland Eastwood questioned if there has been any comparison between dioxins and PVC and if there has been any study made on the dioxins that are airborne? Professor Rappe stated that there is no study on the dioxins that are airborne, but the different isomers have a tendency to be easily broken down by a photochemical reaction, but then they become dust particles and there is very little information regarding that. Mr. Ralph Kessler stated that the benefits of experience of other communities should be obtained as well as information from the govern- ment before anything is done. Dr. Stokes stated that incinerators have been examined in about 18 other locations and the conclusion is that in the last 10 years there has been rapid progress in developing the incinerators. Mr. Kessler 8tated that dioxin is one of the most deadly poisons in existence and the Swedish government has declared a moratorium because they do not feel that it is safe. He stated that the County 1 Page 6 . -. .. "I ... . ~-'""""--""""'''''''''-''~''''''"'''''""''''''''''''''*'''''''''''''''''<'',,,,..,,,,~,,.,." .. .. .. December 2, 1985 .. ~ . should wait until that moratorium has been lifted or resOlved, adding that the County does not have any emergency with regards to the landfill and therefore, there should not be any rush to go into a resource recovery plant. Professor Rappe stated that the data will not be . vailable until May, which i. why the moratorium is still in effect. Commissioner Voss .tated that there is no rush as far as the study of this matter, adding that the only rush is due to the pending tax law changes. He noted that the Committee has been studying this matter for Over two years. Commissioner pistor thanked Professor Rappe for coming to Naples and for giving a fine presentation. He noted that there will be a meeting on December 3, 1985, at 1,30 P.M. to come to a decision on this lIatter. There being no further busine8s for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by Order of the Chair - Time, 11,15 A.M. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS/ BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS ~..ß;.i2.F ATTES1\r1i . !fJ.¡"L1.~·.'!:r ~ /REAGAN, CLERK' ..~' 0''''1' ::.:~..;.: f' (,,/~ ~';~1" ·~dc, ·ó.. --:: ~.fut.. approved on :a.v. ,/3 ":;1'",,,-:;,. ~~'3r as corrected presented .\... BOO ( 091 mr 93' Page 7 _'_~_"'='"'~m'''''''''''''''''~ ""-'~"''"''''-'''''+~''''';'''""'''''''""'''"~''-_.'-''''''"''-_',.-. -"'_.."..'"""""",...."'_._-,,-_......_.~-_.,..,"'.',¡."',...."" I I