BCC Minutes 06/09/2004 W (Caribbean Gardens)
June 9, 2004
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS/CARIBBEAN GARDENS WORKSHOP
Naples, Florida, June 9, 2004
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Board of County
Commissioners/Caribbean Gardens Workshop in and for the County of
Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 AM
WORKSHOP SESSION in Building "F of the Government Complex, East
Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Fiala
Commissioner Fred Coyle
Commissioner James Coletta
Commissioner Frank Halas
ALSO PRESENT: Jim Mudd, Collier County Manager
Marla Ramsey, Interim Administrator Public Services
John Sorey, II, Naples City Council
Dr. Lee, Naples City Manager
Kathy Prosser, Chairman Conservation Collier
Chuck Carrington, Real Estate Services
Fred Reischl, Zoning & Land Dev.
Nancy Tetzlaff, Caribbean Gardens
David Tetzlaff, Caribbean Gardens
Ted Hudgins, Thomas R. Hudgins, Tax Attorney
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COLLIER COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
~
Caribbean Gardens
Workshop Agenda
June 9, 2004
9:00 a.m.
Donna Fiala, Chairman, District 1
Fred W. Coyle, Vice-Chairman, District 4
Frank Halas, Commissioner, District 2
Tom Henning, Commissioner, District 3
Jim Coletta, Commissioner, District 5
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM
MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER
WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE
AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 03-53 REQUIRES THAT ALL
LOBBYISTS SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES
(INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE
BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
ALL REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO FIVE (5)
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION OF
CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY
FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301 EAST
TAMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 774-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE.
Page 1
June 9, 2004
1. Pledge of Allegiance
2. Real Estate Questions:
a. Willing seller?
b. Estimated values and market price
3. Zoning and Permitting
a. What is zoning presently
b. What are allowable uses
c. What could it be zoned
d. Who makes the decision
4. Environmental
a. What are environmental issues with the properties
b. Update on Conservation Collier
5. Caribbean Zoo Operations
a. Discussion on private/public partnership
b. Relocation possibilities
6. Funding Sources
a. What are available funding sources: Conservation Collier, Big Cypress,
TDC, general fund referendum
b. FCT (Florida Community Trust)
7. Question and Answer Period
Page 2
June 9, 2004
June 9, 2004
1. The Workshop Meeting was called to order by Commissioner Donna Fiala at
9:05 AM. Pledge of Allegiance was recited.
County Manager Jim Mudd introduced the interim Administrator for Public
Services, Marla Ramsey who in turn will introduce the speakers addressing each
issue according to the Agenda.
2. Real Estate Questions: Chuck Carrington
Map was displayed of the area in question. Showed Fleischmann property and two out
parcels owned by Donald Stoneburner and Mr. Earl Hodges. Total acreage involved is
138 acres - assessed value $2.7M. Mentioned they used comparables that is one year old
data. Could be $28M to 35M. It is zoned Commercial, Residential and Agricultural.
a. Willing Seller?
Fleischmann family is interested in selling all of the property.
Would talk with the County or anyone else in September/October.
They will have a preliminary development plan of the property
done.
b. Estimated values and market price:
Given above.
3. Zoning and Permitting - Fred Reischl- Zoning & Land Development Review
a. What is zoning presently:
· Rural agriculture, commercial intermediate C-3 zoning and
residential RMF-6 (multi-family or single-family). On portion of
property is ST Zoning Overlay special treatment for environmental
sensitivity.
b. What are allowable uses and
c. What could it be zoned:
· Possible future zoning - base density is 4 dwelling units per acre,
however is within traffic congestion area - subtract 1 dwelling unit
per acre for base density of 3. Portion of properties are within
Activity Center #14 - is eligible to rezone to Commercial.
· Possible Affordable Housing Density Bonus - 8 dwelling units per
acre.
· Entire site is within Coastal High Hazard area.
· Marine wetlands are subtracted from density calculations. No
assessment done but with Gordon River and mangroves there are
marine wetlands on site.
· Possible future scenarios: Mixed Use PUD with 3 possibilities
being - Market rate/Residential & Commercial - Maximum of 3
dwellings units per acre.
Mixed Use - Affordable Housing & Commercial - Maximum of
11 dwelling units per acre.
Mixed Use - Land of Affordable & Market Rate - Plus
Commercial - Density between 3-11 dwelling units per acre.
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June 9, 2004
· Statistics effective today but could change.
Commissioner Coyle asked how much is developable and how much is classified
environmentally sensitive.
Mr. Reischl showed the ST (Special Treatment Overlay) on the map. The County
portion is surrounded by City property and the others are the ST. It is not a perfect
lineation - done in 1974 by aerial photographs. Area under ST is probably going to be
wetland. (Partially fresh water wetlands and partially marine wetlands)
d. Who makes the decision?
Board of County Commissioners makes the decision on any rezoning
whether to change the zoning district or rezone to PUD. Would go
through the Environmental Advisory Council and Planning
Commissioners making a recommendation, but the BCC would have
ultimate decision.
Kathy Prosser asked about a specific area on the map and was told it was owned
by the Conservancy of which she was not aware.
4. Environmental- Bill Lorenz - Environmental Services Director
a. What are environmental issues with the properties and
b. Update on Conservation Collier:
· The Conservation Collier program was approved by the voters in a
referendum in 2002. Objection to acquire environmentally sensitive
lands in the County.
· Authorized BCC to expend $75M over 120 years for bonding
purposes with maximum tax levy for .25 mil rate.
· BCC Ordinance guides implementing the program and has process
of certain reviews with an Advisory Committee that recommends
land for purchase. Kathy Prosser is current Chairman of that
Committee.
· Focused on natural land condition and other natural features.
· Environmentally sensitive land portion isn't limited to ST
designation.
· The Conservation Collier Budget is limited to $75M authorization
for bonding purposes and has permission to pursue Cycle 1
properties to pursue acquisition of aprrox. $30M. Received
applications and will be evaluating them. Caribbean Gardens could
be considered within the Conservation Collier program.
· Funding process would be similar to Fleischmann Park.
· Two step process - Conservation Collier Advisory Board reviews
applications - then recommends properties t the ALL (Active
Acquisition List), updates it and makes second list. BCC makes
final decision.
· Timing - BCC will act on the list January 2005 - Advisory
Committee will act on their list in Nov/Dec.
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June 9, 2004
Opportunities - Partner to fund value of sensitive lands - would need to know
which lands are environmentally sensitive and the value of them through the
appraisal process.
Undeveloped portions could be managed according to the management
department of the Ordinance. Those areas could provide for public access and
recreational.
Commissioner Coyle asked - if Fleischmann would not sell off in parcels, and
Conservation Collier would be a willing seller program, (have willing seller and offer for
sale) Caribbean Gardens probably wouldn't be saved through that act alone. Need to
understand they are looking at entire parcel and bring individual groups together to
contribute portions of parcel to preserve entire parcel. That being the ultimate goal, and
whether successful or not, is different issue. He did not want anyone to misunderstand as
Conservation Collier wouldn't be the total solution, only part of it.
He asked Mr. Reischl to outline the zoning categories.
Mr. Reischl showed diagram of zoning map:
. Agricultural - Caribbean Gardens
· Western portion along Goodlette Frank - C3 - Commercial Intermediate
· North - RMF6 - Residential Multi-Family
· Also - RMF6 (3) - same standard but 3 dwelling units per acre
· East - Agricultural - ST
· Southern - C3 continuing West along Goodlette
The acreage Kathy Prosser asked about earlier was explained is not owned by the
Conservancy.
Mr. Reischl explained: Rural Ag is the right to develop Ag. Uses -
Crops/Cattle/Livestock and I dwelling unit per acre for residential.
Commercial intermediate C-3 - most office uses, retail uses, typical Publix type stores.
RMF6 - Single family, duplex or multi-family and depending upon zoning districts - one
- maximum 6 dwelling units per acre and the other maximum of 12 dwelling units per
acre.
ST means anything developed within ST parcel would go to the Board for approval.
Commissioner Coyle mentioned that others are already zoned; if owner would build
there now, the way it is zoned they do not have to get approval unless it has an ST
Overlay. It can be developed without BCC approval.
Mr. Sorey - Naples City Council- stated they should correct the numbers - with the
extra 5.8 acres means it is 143.8 acres.
5. Caribbean Zoo Operations: David Tetzlaff - Caribbean Gardens
a. Discussion on private/public partnership and
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June 9, 2004
b. Relocation possibilities:
· He explained they had a lease until probate started with the Fleischmann
family and hanging for quite some time until it is resolved. Have been
there for 35 years and would like to continue to stay.
· Caribbean Gardens is privately funded and have never gone to anyone for
any assistance.
· Asking to partner is not an unusual request as most zoos (accredited) are
on City or Count, leasing the land. It can be on a percentage or as little as
$1.00/year. They are not asking Collier County or the citizens to buy the
property - they are looking for a solution that will be beneficial for both.
Mr. Sorey asked how many zoos is 501C-3 - Mr. Tetzlaff said some are changing "for
profit" most are "non-profit" - they are one of 6 or 8 that are privately run.
Commissioner Halas thought they might want to look at a partnership between the
County and the City. He mentioned maybe a Community Foundation. Wouldn't be a tax
burden and would lean towards philanthropy for those that wish to.
They are exploring a non-profit status and want to have a sense of ownership with the
County and City residents.
Ted Hudgins - Tax Attorney/Thomas R. Hudgins, PPLC - been engaged by the
Tetzlaffs to achieve a non-for profit status. Considering forming a new non-for profit
corporation and apply for 509A-2 status. It is equivalent to a 501 C-3. They would then
enter into long term leases of the property with the animals and improvements on the
lands. As the animals would die and be replaced the "new" non- for profit would then
acquire the animals and then in a few years the zoo would be totally self-sustaining. The
family would then be in a managerial capacity and no ownership. It would be a public
charity. Because of that it would be eligible for tax contributions from persons that want
to make donations from estates etc.
Commissioner Sorey asked about the time schedule to move forward to the 509A-2
status.
Mr. Hudgins responded as soon as they have guidance from the BCC as to where the
future of the zoo is. The IRS is willing to help them achieve the status and they do help
organizations achieve this status as it relieves the government from maintaining the zoo,
so it encourages and helps people.
The City is dedicated and willing to look at the alternatives and explore them. May want
to have a referendum like the Conservation Collier to the residents and felt they could
have a segmented tax.
Mr. Hudgins mentioned if they were successful with the 509A-2 status, it would give
others the opportunity and possibilities for organizations to participate in an acquisition
and support of the zoo itself.
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June 9, 2004
Commissioner Coyle felt there were two problems to address. The first to preserve
Caribbean Gardens and the other to find a way for them to operate on the land. He didn't
think contributions would solve the first problem. Need large amount of money up front.
Grants and contributions will come over time for operational purposes, but not for the
process of gaining control of the property.
Have to find people who have money that are willing to help gain control, and then an
organizational relationship so they can continue to operate.
He asked if it was possible for Caribbean Gardens to re-organize prior to a commitment
to have property to operate on. He said that is the "real" question and can proceed on
planning but wondered about the reorganization status.
Mr. Hudgins stated it was possible and could be filed in the next few weeks. It is such a
clean, straightforward issue and sees no problem with achieving the 509 status. No
reason it can't be completed and rubber stamped by the IRS.
If the property can not be preserved - the Tetzlaffs would have wasted some attorney fees
and organizational expenses for forming the "new" non-for profit organization. They feel
this is a good avenue to follow.
Commissioner Fiala stated this is all positive and need to move forward and are
addressing the entire property and not piece meal with everyone in agreement. She has
heard from many people with no negativity. She has suggested going to a referendum
and asking the residents to pay a certain amount, like an MSTU, for a certain amount of
years. Have a sunset date and then will have something to Bond. Then have a plan of
what they are going to do with the property. Many seem to be in agreement so they do
not lose the zoo.
Mr. Sorey stated until they set everything up for the accounting and actually contribute
any assets there is no impact on the corporation and encourage moving forward.
Secondly he would like to see establishing a process to answer all these questions through
a Blue Ribbon Committee, or however they can handle it.
Commissioner Halas stated they need to leave all options open on acquiring the
property. The idea of a Blue Ribbon Committee is a good one and need to have staff
look at it also. He doesn't want to use the funds in Conservation Collier as there are
other areas.
Commissioner Coyle mentioned there is a drop-dead date if considering a referendum.
The people would decide for themselves and it wouldn't be the Commissioners imposing
a tax. Residents have been in favor of Conservation Collier and would be supportive of
this issue. Need to move quickly on the referendum for November. Then they can
evaluate other options.
Mr. Mudd - County Manager mentioned the deadline for referendums is mid-July.
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June 9, 2004
Mr. Hudgins mentioned Estate Planning. People he meets daily, charitably inclined,
want to help schools, churches and zoos - children and animals. He feels this is a good
way to help fund the zoo also.
Kathy Prosser thanked everyone for the Workshop and felt this is a lifetime opportunity
in Collier County to preserve something wonderful for the entire world. Tremendous for
a tourism point of view as she refers to it as "Naples Central Park." She suggested
consider working with Pathways for a path up and down the Gordon River starting at Tin
City.
There is grant money available for such things. Pathways have that for a project and are
getting grant money for it. But there is a problem with some of the private property along
the western side of Gordon River to Tin City.
6. Funding Sources:
a. What are available funding sources: Conservation Collier, Big Cypress,
TDC, General Fund Referendum, and
b. FCT (Florida Community Trust) - Marla Ramsey explained the Trust
Republic Lands helped broker deals with the Cypress Gardens between the State,
Local Government and a private developer. $llM was taken from Florida
Community Trust to purchase the $20M parcel. (150 acres) Partnership with 3
entities was brokered and saved that entity in the center ofthe State. She talked
about Parrot Jungle being saved also with partnerships.
SPEAKERS
David Morgan - Collier County since 1988 - he explained this is a loss of control and
don't have time to get things on a referendum. Give the private sector and the public
groups a chance to help save the property. Go to the developers and ask them to be
creative. Stop the referendum as the wealthy can afford it - the poor can't, it is a big deal
to them. Let's fix it ourselves.
William Willkomm III - Gulf Shore Blvd. - representing the Old Naples Association.
Thanked everyone for taking the time to address this issue. Visited Jungle Larry's many
times. This is a legacy and thanked everyone for trying to arrive at a solution.
Mike Bauer - South Florida Water Management District - one model they might
want to think about is the Cresw Trust (Corkscrew Regional Eco System Watershed
Trust). Is an entity purchasing land into the public realm with decisions made by Board
of Directors for a diverse public and private interest that manages and runs the process.
May want to talk to the Executive Director.
John Crowley - Vice President of Naples Botanical Gardens - stated they appreciate
the public and private partnership they have with the County Commissioners. Florida
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June 9, 2004
Gulf Coast University has partnered with them and built an educational process on their
land.
The private sector - assessing opportunities and finding public/private partnership is
beneficial through direct grants and contributions.
Gary Kluckhuhn - represent a grass roots organization - HALO (Housing and
Assisted Living Options) coalition - great opportunity for a beautiful piece ofland.
When talking about partnering need to consider giving some thought to the human
species. BCC signed a proclamation as a "needs assessment." Affordable Senior
Housing would be revealed if they did a "needs assessment." Didn't have to do as they
knew they had that need. Talked about Bond issue in purchasing the land and the private
sector. He described and explained HALO. Supports those with special needs.
Commissioner Coyle asked what funding sources HALO has.
Mr. Kluckhuhn answered they have no budget or funds. They work with other
organizations that do. Have to determine what the needs are and look at funding sources.
Some of them will not be able to be implemented quickly enough.
Commissioner Coyle stated the County bought all the Fleischmann property north of
Golden Gate Blvd. and had brought together various entities for funding. They will be
keeping all their options open and will talk to many people and organizations. They are
looking for people that can bring funding opportunities to the table now. Without
funding opportunities to gain control of all of the property, no ideas discussed will mean
a thing. He wants to know who can bring something to the table. There are a lot of
issues involved and a lot of people will be involved in the process.
Mr. Kluckhuhn stated he is emphasizing this is an opportunity and with land being
scarce he doesn't want anything to fall through the cracks.
Henry Rambocker - representative of SCORE (Service Corp of Retired Executives)
has counseled 620 cases of persons wanting to go into business and those in business
with problems. They are part of the Small Business Administration. They are firm
believers Caribbean Gardens need to continue. It is a big attraction for Collier County
and Naples. May want to consider a Bonding issue.
Commissioner Fiala reiterated again the support for the referendum and bonding.
Direction to staff and summary is: Appoint a Blue Ribbon Committee and for Mr.
Mudd to set-up a Referendum.
Mr. Mudd explained the referendum process and what they went through with
Conservation Collier. Talked about setting a millage rate based on interest rates,
bonding, Ad Valorem tax and contacting the County Attorney on the wording of it. The
Commissioners favored the millage rate.
Nancy Tetzlaff thanked everyone on behalf of her and her family for all their help and is
humbled by all the community support shown. She gave a history of "Jungle Larry"
(Larry Tetzlaff) being a stand-in for Tarzan. He was a "hot papa" pulling pilots out of
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June 9, 2004
burning planes, worked in Ohio/Michigan/Pennsylvania schools with educational
programs with one of his goals being the understanding of animals and not to fear them.
He was interested in Conservation and was involved in "Saving the Everglades." They
now reach out to other animal facilities and organizations through-out the world and
continue his legacy.
Dr. Lee - Naples City Manager commended the County staff for the great presentation
and it gave him some background on the Caribbean Gardens as he is relatively new to the
area. Many important issues were covered in a short period oftime and will share the
workshop with the City Council.
Marla Ramsey will get a Committee together as soon as possible as they need to think of
all the possibilities and also what to do in case the referendum fails.
*****
There being in further business for the good of the County, the workshop meeting
was adjourned at 10:34 AM.
COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS/CARIBBEAN GARDENS WORKSHOP
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Chairman C mmissioner Donna Fiala
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