VAB Minutes 10/02/2017 R October 2, 2017
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
VALUE ADJUSTMENT BOARD
Naples, Florida, October 2, 2017
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Value Adjustment Board,
in and for the County of Collier, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with
the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Andrew Solis
Burt L. Saunders
Erick Carter (School Board)
Rebecca Earney (Citizen Member)
Nace Cohen (Citizen Member)
COUNSEL TO THE VAB: Holly E. Cosby, Esq.
Also Present:
Jeep Quinby, Collier County Property Appraiser's Office
Jennifer Blaje, Collier County Property Appraiser's Office
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VALUE ADJUSTMENT BOARD
MEETING
Board of County Commission Chambers
Collier County Government Center
3299 Tamiami Trail E., 3rd Floor
Naples, FL 34112
October 2, 2017 @ 9:00 a.m.
1. Pledge of Allegiance and Roll Call (Quorum established)
2. Introduction by VAB Legal Counsel: Holly E. Cosby, Esq. with the Law Firm of
Holly E. Cosby, Esq.
3. Approval of Today's Meeting Agenda
4. Approval/Acceptance of Minutes into the 2017 VAB record
A. August 7, 2017 VAB Organizational Meeting
5. Public Comment
6. Special Magistrate RFP #17-7047 Applicant Request for further review
• Mario de la Guardia– Tangible Personal Property Appraiser
7. VAB Attorney Report/General Business
194.032 Hearing purposes; timetable.— (1)(a) The value adjustment board shall meet not
earlier than 30 days and not later than 60 days after the mailing of the notice provided in s.
194.011(1); however, no board hearing shall be held before approval of all or any part of the
assessment rolls by the Department of Revenue. (TRIM mailed out on 8/18/2017)
A. 2017 VAB Filings: 524 timely filed Las of 09/25/20171;
(25 untimely received as of 9/26/17 - 5 denied las of 09/27/2017])
*as compared to 614 petitions filed in 2016 (34 of those were untimely)
*as compared to 635 petitions filed in 2015 (12 of those were untimely)
*as compared to 388 petitions filed in 2014 (4 of those were untimely)
*as compared to 616 petitions filed in 2013 (30 of those were untimely)
*as compared to 766 petitions filed in 2012 (15 of those were untimely)
*as compared to 892 petitions filed in 2011 (12 of those were untimely)
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October 2, 2017
B. General overview of Value Adjustment Board's role in Florida's property
tax system and any VAB process updates/changes from the Department of
Revenue/Property Tax Oversight Division.
• Uniform Policies and Procedure Manual —Revised 09/2017
C. Informational links available on the Department of Revenue's
(www.floridarevenue.com/dor/propertv/vab),
My Florida Sunshine ( www.mvflsunshine.com/sun.nsf/sunmanual) and
the Clerk of the Value Adjustment Board's (www.collierclerk.com)websites:
VAB Reference Materials
• Florida's Government in the Sunshine
• Rule Chapter 12D-9, F.A.C.
• DOR's VAB Forms
• Rule Chapter 12D-10.003, F.A.C.
• Rule Chapter 12D-51.001, F.A.C.
• Rule Chapter 12D-51.002, F.A.C.
• Rule Chapter 12D-51.003, F.A.C.
• Florida Statutes: Chapter 119, 286, 192, 193, 194, 195, and 196
8. VAB Dates of Importance
A. Magistrate Hearings: Currently scheduled to begin October 16, 2017
through November 21, 2017 (more dates assigned, if needed, based on any
good cause reschedules)
B. Final VAB Meeting: March 5, 2018 at 9:00 a.m.
[3/12/2018 -3/16/2018 Spring Break for Collier Co. Schools]
C. Property Taxes are due to be paid by March 31, 2018
(For reference: http://www.colliertax.conepropertvtax.html)
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October 2,2017
9. Staff and Board Member Comments
10. Adjournment
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October 2, 2017
October 2, 2017
MS. COSBY: I will advise everybody that we have a hot mike.
Good morning --
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Good morning.
MS. COSBY: -- Value Adjustment Board. Today is Monday,
October 2nd, 9:04 a.m. We will commence the Value Adjustment
Board Special Meeting.
If we can go ahead and begin with a rise for the Pledge.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: And I would suggest that we have a
moment of silence as well for the people that were killed and their
families in Las Vegas.
Would you like to lead us in the Pledge?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Sure.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
MS. COSBY: For the record, I will state, Holly Cosby, Value
Adjustment Board Counsel, present here, and we'll move forward with
taking roll call, please.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER CARTER: Oh. Calling roll? Do
I have to say my name? Here.
MS. COSBY: Yes. Please say your name.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: I think it's Erick.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER CARTER: Erick Carter here. I'm
used to them calling my name.
MS. COSBY: Sorry.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Burt Saunders here.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Andy Solis.
CITIZEN MEMBER EARNEY: Becky Earney.
MS. COSBY: Okay. And I will advise for the record, pursuant
to Florida Statute 194.015, we do have quorum.
We'll move on to approval of today's meeting agenda. I will need
a motion from the Board.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER CARTER: I motion to approve
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October 2, 2017
the agenda.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Is there a second?
MS. COSBY: Second?
CITIZEN MEMBER EARNEY: Second.
MS. COSBY: We have a second?
CITIZEN MEMBER EARNEY: I'll second that.
MS. COSBY: Thank you. Do we have any discussion?
(No response.)
MS. COSBY: Those in favor, signify by saying aye.
CITIZEN MEMBER EARNEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER CARTER: Aye.
MS. COSBY: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MS. COSBY: Motion carries.
Moving on to approve -- I'm sorry -- yeah -- approval/acceptance
of the minutes from the 2017 Value -- August 7, 2017, Value
Adjustment Board organizational meeting.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: So moved.
CITIZEN MEMBER EARNEY: Motion to approve.
MS. COSBY: We have a motion. Do we have a second?
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER CARTER: I second.
MS. COSBY: Second. Do we have any discussion?
(No response.)
MS. COSBY: Those in favor, signify by saying aye.
CITIZEN MEMBER EARNEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER CARTER: Aye.
MS. COSBY: Any opposed?
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October 2, 2017
(No response.)
MS. COSBY: Motion carries.
Moving on to public comment. Do we have anybody today in the
audience that wishes to speak with regards to public comment?
(No response.)
MS. COSBY: Seeing none, we can close that agenda item.
Move on to Agenda Item No. 6. This is an information item; I
believe that's how we're going to handle that. But I do need to advise
the Board, basically what happened was once our organizational
meeting concluded and all the special magistrates were appointed,
someone -- an applicant came forward, and this is -- there's a full
packet in part of the agenda.
But an applicant came forward and voiced some concerns,
negative concerns, with regard to the procurement process and how
some of his information may have not been either identified accurately
or viewed properly.
So I did speak with him personally and apologized for any of his
negative feelings toward the procurement process. And I did look into
it, and it looked like some of the stuff that they may not have been able
to find was actually there but other pieces of information that the
Procurement Department needed actually wasn't present during the
time that they were reviewing his application.
So -- and this is just an informational item, but I feel like it's
necessary to bring it to the Board because I did personally have some
issues with the procurement process, and I think it's probably -- going
forward, it probably is important maybe to either involve myself or
maybe somebody in the VAB admin portion a little more heavily just
so that that process, when we secure our special magistrates, we're
doing the best job we can, we're securing, you know, qualified
magistrates and, you know, if there's a lag of information or missing
information, that we make sure that we secure all of that.
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And so this was just an item to bring to your attention, and I'll
probably be asking the Value Adjustment Board, probably during the
final meeting, to permit me on a very minimal basis, because I'm not
looking for a billing opportunity here; more of a quality situation; but,
just on a very minimal basis, allowing maybe myself to be involved in
the procurement process just so that we can make sure that we don't
make any mistakes or are missing information.
Does anybody have any questions on this?
CITIZEN MEMBER EARNEY: I do.
MS. COSBY: Yes, ma'am.
CITIZEN MEMBER EARNEY: I'd just like to know for sure
that there is a format that's sent, or not sent, but that they can acquire,
that people that want to be a magistrate can acquire to know how to fill
out the paperwork and what's required.
MS. COSBY: Oh, yes, ma'am. The procurement process is very
lengthy and, I thought, pretty detailed. Just a few elements of it that I
-- specifically with the E-Verify portion of it that I found a little
concerning.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Is it the same process that the county uses
for magistrates for, say, code enforcement and other issues, or is it a
separate one?
MS. COSBY: That's a good question. I don't know the answer,
because I wasn't involved in that process, as I'm also new to Collier
County. I'm just not sure what's going to be permitted for me to be
involved in what processes and whatnot, but I would ask, going
forward, that I be permitted to be involved in that process and I can ask
that question.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Yeah. I'm just curious. Was it that
information that the applicant had provided wasn't included in the
packet to the Board, or what happened?
MS. COSBY: What the applicant stated was that it was -- he was
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advised that he submitted information stating that he took and passed
the 2006 Department of Revenue training and that he had been
representing other company -- other counties with that in place yet that
wasn't found on the Department of Revenue's website. And that could
be an oversight, but I think that that's something that could have been
clarified with the applicant further.
The Procurement Department advised the applicant that his
company, his core company, his main company, was not located on
Sunbiz.org, and I actually found it in two seconds. And he's actually
been in existence since 2004.
What there was a question on was the -- was his DBA, his
fictitious name, which I'm not sure -- you know, this wasn't a process
of trying to perspect (sic) and possibly get him in. This was more of
me fact finding. I'm not sure when he applied versus when his
fictitious name was filed. I know that was probably one of the main
issues.
And additionally, procurement requires everybody to file
E-Verify -- with E-Verify with the U.S. Government. And I'm going
to tell you from personal experience I had to file E-Verify, and then a
week after I did -- and I provided it, and the Procurement Department
said this is what we need; perfect. But a week later I got a call from
the U.S. Government telling me I shouldn't have filed that and that I
had no business filing it because my business was in existence since
2003, and I had been paying taxes and had everything in place since
2003. So I was kind of grandfathered in.
And so maybe a clarification needs to be provided to the
Procurement Department which entities or which people fit in that
grandfathered state so that they don't file something inappropriate with
the U.S. Government.
So those are all things that I'd like to make sure that we close the
loop on next year.
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Do you need any direction
from this board to make that happen, or can you just do it?
MS. COSBY: I will probably need some allowances, because I
don't know that it's quite in the scope of my representation at this time.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Could you sort of make a
motion here or tell us what action you want this board to take to
facilitate that?
MS. COSBY: We can do it now. I'd be happy to do it now. The
motion, I think, that we would be looking for would be for the Value
Adjustment Board to permit counsel, Value Adjustment Board
counsel, whether it's me or anybody else, to be part of the procurement
process when they are -- when special magistrates are being sought for
the next Value Adjustment Board session to allow that counsel to be
part of that process probably when finalizing the packets or finalizing
the submissions just to make sure that what procurement is requesting
is accurate for the law and then what procurement is receiving, which
is accurate and required for law.
(Citizen Member Nace Cohen is now present in the boardroom.)
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll make that motion, at least
to start the conversation.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER CARTER: I'll second.
MS. COSBY: Okay. We have a motion and a second. Do we
have any other suggestion on this?
(No response.)
MS. COSBY: I appreciate your interest in the matter, and I
appreciate your support. I would say with no other discussion, all in
favor, please signify by saying aye.
CITIZEN MEMBER EARNEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER CARTER: Aye.
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CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: Aye.
MS. COSBY: Those opposed?
(No response.)
MS. COSBY: Motion carries.
With regards to item number -- we'll move on to Item No. 7, I
would advise that an ad has been published in the paper with regards to
hearings. Hearings are going to be commencing. First date we have is
August 16th -- I'm sorry, October 16th. Am I going too far? I am. I'm
sorry. We're going to get a -- I'm sorry. We have a report on petitions
filed first. I apologize.
And we'll look at 7A. 7A advises that 524 timely filed petitions
were received, and 25 untimely. Twenty of those were accepted as
good cause late filed; five were denied. And the only reason they were
denied was because there was actually no good cause statement.
Because the Department of Revenue issued a memo, and I concur with
that memo, that those that were affected by Hurricane Irma that
suffered any sort of delay due to Hurricane Irma, whether it's
evacuation, loss of power, loss of Internet, inability to get here, any of
those, that that would be good cause for a late filing.
I think we're kind of creeping on the passing that point. But
anything that came in that said Hurricane Irma or anything like that,
those were approved. And this does give a comparison -- 7A does give
a comparison from this year to last year and, obviously, petition
numbers are decreasing.
Does anybody have any questions on this issue?
(No response.)
MS. COSBY: Okay. Moving into 7B, the Uniform Policies and
Procedural Manual has been revised with the Department of Revenue
simply to reflect all of the new laws and changes. Nothing's different
from when we met during the organizational meeting. They've just
updated their manual.
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Further, 7C, there's several items of information present here in
the room today, and I will state those on the record. We have Florida
Sunshine Manual present here in the room. We also have the Clerk
website, and here present we have Rule Chapter 12D-9, Department of
Revenue VAB forms, Rule Chapter 12D-10.003, Rule Chapter
12D-51 .001, 51.002, 51.003, and Florida Statutes Chapters 119, 286,
192, 193, 194, 195, and 196.
And do we have any discussion or questions from the Board with
regards to any of those items?
(No response.)
MS. COSBY: Okay. Moving on to item number -- Agenda Item
No. 8 -- and I apologize. This is where I skipped over before. 8A, we
do have hearings that are set. There is an ad that had been run in the
paper, and we have an affidavit publication for that, and hearings will
begin on October 16th. They're scheduled to be held through
November 21st, but we do have additional dates necessary if needed
for any good cause reschedules.
We do have a final meeting tentative date set for March 5th, 2008
(sic), at 9 a.m. If I could get the Board to check their calendars at this
time to see if we have conflicts, or have we already set that?
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Quick question.
MS. COSBY: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: In 7 -- the introductory part to 7A says that
the Value Adjustment Board shall meet not earlier than 30 days, not
later than 60 days after the mailing of the TRIM notice --
MS. COSBY: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: -- and that it was mailed out on August
18th.
MS. COSBY: Yes, sir. And then we had our Value Adjustment
Board organizational meeting on August 7th.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Oh, it's the organizational.
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October 2, 2017
MS. COSBY: It says TRIM mailed 8/18/2016. I'm going to
probably state that that should be 2017.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Well, right, I mean, 2017, but -- so the
organizational meeting, we don't have to have all of our meetings
within that time frame.
MS. COSBY: No.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Just one.
MS. COSBY: No. The organizational meeting stands for that.
Now, I clarified this with the Department of Revenue years ago
because that was a question. Because there's a lot of meeting, hearing,
meeting, hearing. And so when the Value Adjustment Board meets for
the organizational meeting, that constitutes that meeting that needs to
take place not 30 days prior or 60 days after. And whatever happens
thereafter happens thereafter. I mean, we have to certify rolls and
things have to be -- we have to go through our course of business. So,
no, we're all good. The organizational meeting satisfied that.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Okay.
MS. COSBY: Thank you for that question.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER CARTER: Also, I just wanted to
confirm as well that spring break is not March the 5th now. It's been
moved to week of March the 12th for the schools.
MS. COSBY: It says -- I'm sorry. Does your agenda say
something different? It says 3/12 to 3/16 is spring break.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER CARTER: Oh, my God, yes. I'm
sorry. You're right. I was looking at the March 5th, and I didn't read
that part of it. My apologies.
MS. COSBY: No, no. No worries. If I can get everybody to
check their calendars to advise if March 5th works; if not, we can go
ahead and poll the Board at a later date, because we may be able to
move this up if we conclude earlier. At this point, does March 5th
work?
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CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: Works for me.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER CARTER: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: As far as I know.
MS. COSBY: Okay. And just another informational item: We
have the property taxes are due and to be paid by March 31st, 2018,
which is why there's an interest to try and close the VAB prior to so
that everything can be closed down and certified.
Ms. Earney, do you have a question?
CITIZEN MEMBER EARNEY: Yes, Ms. Cosby. I was just
wondering where the magistrates hearings would be held.
MS. COSBY: That's a very good question. Oh, I know that
answer. Wherever that admin is situated, there's actually a hearing
room just outside of that admin, and I want to say that's on the eighth
floor.
MS. VERGARA: Fourth.
MS. COSBY: Fourth floor, fourth floor.
MS. VERGARA: And we also have a room set up on the seventh
floor.
MS. COSBY: They have an alternate room set up on the seventh
floor.
CITIZEN MEMBER EARNEY: And is it open to the public?
MS. COSBY: Yes, ma'am. All hearings are open to the public.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: One question. In terms of
these appeals, you've got 524; you had 614 last year. Out of all of
those, how many typically result in any changes to the taxes that are
owed?
MS. COSBY: I don't know the answer to that. It just depends -- I
guess it depends on the year and I guess it depends on property
appraiser's settlement, but I can get that answer for you.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's okay. I was curious.
MS. COSBY: I will advise this: At the end when we have a final
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meeting, there is a form that VAB finishes and finalizes and actually
publishes in the paper that does show what has been changed pursuant
to VAB action.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MS. COSBY: But at this point I don't know. It varies year to
year.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Sure.
CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: Could I continue -- that's a good
question. And of that amount, do you know how many petitions are
filed by an outside third-party firm as opposed to the actual taxpayer?
MS. COSBY: Several.
CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: Several.
MS. COSBY: Several.
CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: But we don't know --
MS. COSBY: I don't know a percentage.
CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: -- out of the 600 or so, right.
MS. COSBY: I don't know. I would guess maybe 50 percent are
filed by taxpayer representatives, at least.
CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: Interesting, yeah.
MS. COSBY: Yeah. A lot of people don't -- I'm sorry. Okay.
I'm getting a -- okay. I'm going to then amend my guess to possibly 75
percent, maybe 80 percent of taxpayer reps. I mean, I do see --
CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: It's an interesting discussion
because many of the taxpayers don't really understand the process --
MS. COSBY: Absolutely.
CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: -- whereas, I guess these
third-party firms do.
MS. COSBY: Absolutely.
CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: And, of course, they're making
their money that way. So it's something to think about.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: No? There's --
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October 2, 2017
CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: That's coming from the tax
people here.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Property Appraiser.
MR. QUINBY: Typically we get hit -- wouldn't you say about 80
percent are tax reps from, like, Houston, Dallas, East Coast --
MS. COSBY: Miami, Fort Lauderdale.
MR. QUINBY: -- Chicago, Atlanta.
And back to your prior statement about the local people, they
understand, but they also call our office.
CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: Do they?
MR. QUINBY: So that is really a good thing. The local people
do. They call our office and, you know, we discuss it with them.
That's why we had that 25 days of TRIM, because we get quite a few --
about 500 calls a day coming to our office that the girls up front
handle, and then we get about -- on an average of about 35 calls that
come back to us in our land and improvement department that we
discuss with them. And the majority of those people, yes, they're local
people or second home people here in the community.
But they do, they have a very good understanding. It's just not
common in our county for the tax reps, because they hit the whole state
of Florida. I mean, they just do, and it's primarily commercial
property.
CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: Sure.
MS. COSBY: Can I get you to state your name on the record just
for the court reporter and record.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Make sure the mike is on as well.
MR. QUINBY: Jeep Quinby.
CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: Thank you, Jeep.
MS. COSBY: Thank you for weighing in on that, Mr. Quinby. I
appreciate that.
Does the Board have any other questions with regard to the
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process? We're certainly here to answer those.
(No response.)
MS. COSBY: Okay. Moving on to Agenda Item No. 9, staff and
board member comments. I think we've started that. But does
anybody have any other issues to discuss today or bring forth to the
Board? Would the Board like me to find that answer out as far as what
the changes are normally?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's okay. I don't need it. It
was just a curiosity.
MS. COSBY: With no further comment, I guess we'll move on to
Item No. 10, and I'd entertain a motion to adjourn.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER CARTER: I motion to adjourn.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Are you sure that you want to
adjourn now? It's not even 9:30 yet.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER CARTER: You want to wait
seven more minutes, Burt? Would that make you feel like --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No, I'll second your motion.
MS. COSBY: We have a second. Any discussion?
(No response.)
MS. COSBY: Those in favor, signify by saying aye.
CITIZEN MEMBER EARNEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SOLIS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Aye.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER CARTER: Aye.
CITIZEN MEMBER COHEN: Aye.
MS. COSBY: Motion -- meeting adjourned. Thank you.
*****
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October 2, 2017
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 9:22 a.m.
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VALUE ADJU' TMENT BOARD
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ATTEST
DWIGHT E BROCK, CLERK
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s'sgnature ody.
These minutes approved by the Board on LL
as presented G or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF U.S. LEGAL
SUPPORT, BY TERRI LEWIS, NOTARY PUBLIC/COURT
REPORTER.
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