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BCC Minutes 03/12/2003 W (w/CCPC) March 12,2003 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND PLANNING COMMISSION JOINT WORKSHOP Naples, Florida, March 12, 2003 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Board of County Commissioners and Planning Commission Joint Workshop in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 A.M. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Commissioner Tom Henning Commissioner Donna Fiala Commissioner Fred Coyle Commissioner Jim Coletta Commissioner Frank Halas ALSO PRESENT: Jim Mudd, Collier County Manager Joe Schmitt, Adm. Comm. Dev. & Environmental Servo John Kelly Susan Murray Ed Oches Patrick White Barbara Burgeson Marla Ramsey 1 COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ~ JOINT WORKSHOP AGENDA March 12, 2003 9:00 a.m. NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED. COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 99-22 REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT. REQUESTS TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT ON THIS AGENDA MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING WITH EXPLANATION TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE MEETING AND WILL BE HEARD UNDER "PUBLIC PETITIONS". ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. ALL REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO FIVE (5) MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN. IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING, YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION OF 1 March 12, 2003 CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 774-8380; ASSISTED LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMP AIRED ARE A V AILABLE IN THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE. 1. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE 2. JOINT WORKSHOP WITH THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND PLANNING COMMISSION TO INCLUDE DISCUSSION REGARDING BUILDING HEIGHTS; BUILDING SETBACKS; DENSITY CALCULATION METHODOLOGY INCLUDING DISCUSSION OF SUBMERGED LANDS; THE COASTAL CONSTRUCTION SETBACK LINE (CCSL); BOAT AND BEACH ACCESS REPORT 2003 AND THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT STIMULUS PROPOSAL. 3. ADJOURN 2 March 12, 2003 March 12,2003 JOINT WORKSHOP - BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS & PLANNING COMMISSIONERS Pledge of Allegiance was recited. Commissioner Henning expressed his thoughts of Government working at its best with volunteer citizens dedicating their time in assisting the Board of County Commissioners whom were elected by the people of Collier County. Joe Schmitt - Community Development & Environmental Services - this is the first j oint workshop meeting that has been held between the Planning Commissioners and the Board of County Commissioners. Mr. Schmitt reviewed the Agenda. Staff will be looking for guidance. 1. Buildine Heieht Reeulations Susan Murray - Planning Services - Susan introduced John Kelly of Planning Services to present a power point presentation concerning Building Heights. His presentation covered the following: 1) Consideration & Rationale - Urban Sprawl - Reduced Heights - Density regulated by Code 2) Definitions 3) Architectural Embellishments - Adds to character & personality of structures - Disadvantage is promoting flat roof design 4) Other Exclusions from Height Limits - gave some exclusions & exceptions that apply 5) Application of the Definitions - Definition ofthe zoning area & Flood Zone when applicable - Proposed Construction 6) Comparison with other Florida Jurisdictions - City of Marco Island - City of Naples - St. Augustine - Lee County (a terrific model) 7) Maximum Height Limitations (by zoning classifications) - Examples were shown of Hip Roofs, Gable, Flat and Mansard for Residential and Commercial. 8) Summary- - Actual height of structures is dependant upon roof type, flood zone, and design. - Confusion may exist over the term "Minimum Floor Elevation". 2 March 12,2003 Questions & Comments were taken: Questions were asked about Lee County. Planning Commissioner Budd asked what problems they are attempting to remedy concerning the building heights. Commissioner Halas noted several counties in Florida do not allow FEMA. Starting from the base line ofthe elevation of the building is a concern. They are trying to find a means of what the average public can understand what is going to be built on a particular piece of property. (No interference with the sight line) Commissioner Coyle wasn't sure a set of standards would be appropriate for the entire county. He is wondering ifthere is any interest or logic in trying to approach the needs ofthe individual communities. He feels they can meet the needs and taylor the Code to a more efficient manner. Commissioner Coletta sees a need for the coastal communities and possibly stronger rules and more lenient inland. Commissioner Halas stated he doesn't want to see a problem being misrepresented when the finished product is put on the land. Commissioner Fiala agrees with Commissioner Halas on the misrepresentation of a finished product when put on the land. She also agrees with Commissioner Coyle in which every area is different. She prefers the footprint being smaller. She feels she would depend on the environmentalist with what is fit for the area. She discussed the different roof lines. Commissioner Henning stated one preference does not apply for the whole County. The Commissioners (as elected officials of the people) is to consider the health, welfare and safety ofthe residents. He is very concerned about "urban sprawl". One community would be the Vineyards with mixed use and density being 3.5 units per acre. Susan Murray stated Variances are a process that is usually used to alleviate a hardship associated with the land itself. An alternative to allow heights over a certain maximum would be a conditional use permit. The Ava Maria University has concerns over the building heights. One rule can't apply to all and they should have there ability to be able to do what they want to do architecturally. Commissioner Halas had no problem with the Vineyards and remarked he would like to see, along the coast, a height of approx. 8 stories maximum. The intrusion of site line and a blending with the community has to be looked at. Need to have a community that they can be proud of - and not like what they have on the east Coast. 3 March 12,2003 Joe Schmitt clarified a PUD (a special zoning district) has its own height limitations. Pelican Bay has a height limitation of 200 feet. Specific heights will be set for specific zoned PUD areas. Planning Commissioner Wolfley stated they can't scare people that every time there is a 75 foot height limit, it will be 135 feet - it will not be - due to the architectural drawings. Will need to conserve the land and possibly use the air and still get the density in. Planning Commissioner Abernathy feels there needs to be some education on the part of the public. They latch onto the numbers and not realizing exacting what it is. They should possibly call it the "base" height limitation. A 100 ft building is not the exact number when other things may be added on to that building. The average person couldn't tell by looking at a building what the height is, consequently, a base education to the public is needed. A roof top pertinence should be held to the minimum height necessary to accomplish their purposes and should give the planning staff room to negotiate. Commissioner Halas and Planning Commissioner Abernathy discussed their concerns with petitioning variances and Conditional Uses. Planning Commissioner Budd stated there are two issues 1) reevaluation of maximum heights throughout the county with different heights being appropriate for different areas and 2) truth and advertising requirement in whatever is being done is legally and sufficient and technically accurate. T hat it is functionally 0 bscure and need to come up with a number that is understood with everyone. Planning Commissioner Richardson felt the basic problem is mass. Need to know how that mass is determined. The public is confused and mislead of what should be accomplished. Everyone needs to decide on "one" maximum height. He felt PUD's are a "can of worms" because it is a special negotiation between the contractor and the County. They need standards that apply to all the buildings and look at the County as a whole. Planning Commissioner Strain stated the CCPC is consistently expressing concern over some of the approvals that staff has recommended and each time staff has based their recommendations of what is in the Code. If heights are limited it would give staff a more consistency 0 f what the community is wanting. H e didn't feel urban sprawl was a factor today as it was in the past, so need to look at the overall concerns differently. Commissioner Henning summarized saying they need full disclosure and any application for a rezone or PUD would be 100 feet for RT zoning. He is not sure it is acceptable for this community. 4 March 12, 2003 Across the board height maximum regardless of the zoning district may be a way to approach it rather than individual districts according to Mr. Strain. Commissioner Coyle stated FEMA has changed their height elevation to 8 feet in the last 10-12 years. It needs to be consistent with sound Growth Management. SPEAKERS Dr. Richard Bing - the over all picture needs to be looked at - and there is a confidence issue. FEMA is very confusing to the average person and talk about natural ground when measuring something. Encourage parking under the building. He felt the notification process could be improved. The variance issue should not be encouraged - it should be a legitimate reason for variances rather than routine. Larry Wegner - he mentioned "Belagio Grand" which is a mess and needs to be fixed. Gary Davies - Conservancy - comments were handed out. They support building height restrictions in the County from a Community Character Land Use compatibility issue. They are an environmental organization and most concerned about building heights - such as next to Rookery Bay. Obtrusive building heights diminish enjoying the wilderness experience. They agree to the "Truth in Advertising" issue brought up previously. PUD's don't have any restrictions and should be focused on when trying to change something. He discussed different properties and the heights and suggests and prefers a special treatment overlay. Do an analysis around the nature preserves and need a clear indication as to heights. Sally Barker - she isn't as concerned about 100 foot building heights as she is 200 foot building heights in the urban core. Many things that were never supposed to have happened in the past have happened. She mentioned the beach access at Pelican Bay in the 70's and in the 80's they discussed planning for infrastructure inside the urban boundary line but today they have Twin Eagle. When the flyovers were first approached in the 90's it was never a concern, and now they are talking about a flyover. So those that don't think a 250 foot building inside the urban core will not happen - she feels it will happen. She discussed the different Studies that are being made and preserving the Community Character. There are no restrictions on multi- family high rises. Until the issue is finally resolved no one will know what the County will look like in the future, or will it look like the East Coast. Donna Caron - she talked about high rise helping with urban sprawl and being vertical as well as horizontal. She did not feel height was pleasing to the eye and mentioned the Tresse'. No one is going to pay over $lM for a condominium that is blacktop parking with a flat roof and does not meet the standards of what they are selling them for. The FEMA argument has some merit and should be addressed. Firm height should be established along with setbacks and density. 5 March 12, 2003 Bob Mulhere - RW A - Lee County Code is an excellent one with definitions to heights. Part of the reason is they based their architectural standards on Collier County's standards. The same graphics are in the same Codes. A lack oftrust concerning the product is a legitimate discussion. Whatever building heights and restrictions are determined appropriate - if allowed for exclusions a schematic diagram should show the total height of the building from the ground floor to the highest part of the appurtenance. Make it part of the PUD or zoning and not altered. Require architectural rendering. The Code requires transitioning heights from one location to another. There is no way to establish a hardship in many cases. Need to write some criteria or standards for when height exclusion might be appropriate. An example would be taller buildings on an adjacent property. There is a demand for high rise buildings - WCI introduced a high rise building in Marco Island and sold out in 4 hours for multi million dollars. It needs to be determined what the Community wishes. A maximum percentage needs to be agreed to - to which the base height elevation can be varied. Diane Ketcham - President of Vanderbilt Beach & Bay Assn. - Everything being discussed affects Vanderbilt Beach and Gulf Shore Drive. There is every type of height on the road. She agrees with following the will of the people - can't go wrong. They feel very strongly the heights should be lowered. They're working with the County and some developers on bringing the heights down. There are demands for low rises also and nothing that says the County has to continue to build high. People moved to the area for what was there - not all the high rises. She is glad they are focusing on the issue. Joe Schmitt felt they have direction for staffto look at the LDC Amendment for the fall cycle and look at proposals for defining better height criteria and address the truth in advertising. 2. Buildin2 Setback (Side Yard) Re2ulations Ray Bellows - Planning Services - A handout was available. He discussed the LDC concerning the setbacks. He discussed: - Traditional zoning - 4 basic categories - The use of the Land - The height of the structure - The bulk of the structure - The density or intensity of use He showed the different Exhibits on the handout. Talked about accessory Structure Setbacks stating there are some issues the County is trying to deal with. - PUD Zoning Districts - Allows for mixed standards and setbacks. One exhibit was Maplewood being a cluster community. 6 March 12, 2003 - Has been an ongoing debate of what is an adequate setback. Height restrictions and landscaping is involved - if you don't have height restrictions, the physical presence ofthe building is greater than the impact of the setbacks. - Exhibit "Y" - Lely Barefoot Beach zoning map -is a unique project. It has taller maximum heights. Again language in the code allows for the measurements of the building not counting the non-habitable space underneath and non-habitable space on top. Some have observatories on top being a unique type of development. The County did amend the PUD and put maximum height limits on. The Setbacks are the same but more intense feeling because ofthe height limitations. Commissioner Halas asked about developing a code when looking at the square footage ofthe lot, you can only put a proportion of the square footage of the building and only take up that portion of the lot along with standard regards to height restrictions. Commissioner Coyle mentioned they have been dealing with these issues for 5-6 years and is driven by the market. He said no one wants to pay $IM for a lot and put up $100,000 home. Trying to change setbacks and telling someone, after paying $IM for a lot, they can't build a home in which they bought the property for, is a real risky situation and unfair. Property rights are important. When some ofthe restrictions are brought up, there is not enough support from the residents. Landscaping is an important issue - require landscaping will specify landscaping and not a change in lot line. SPEAKERS Bob Mulhere - RW A - many ofthe changes in the PUD process are older and not very specific - but newer are very specific. No more bubble diagrams have to show the land use on each specific tract in the PUD and have to identify all deviations from the LDC. Some changes have already been changed. He discussed stem wall limitations and mega home lots. Planning Commissioner Abernathy stated he lives in a development with 7 Yz foot setbacks and likes it. In the last 20 years many homes have been built in Collier County as a result ofPUD's rather than individual contractors. The PUD's are approved with 5 foot setbacks. The developers seem to jam as many houses into a sub-division as they can. He doesn't feel Naples should be inundated with those kinds of houses. County staff seems to be at 6 Y2 feet, but 5 feet just didn't seem justifiable to him. Commissioner Halas stated the size of the lot needs to be addressed with a ratio proportion and if going up in height then increase the side yard setback. Joe Schmitt didn't feel they had enough information or guidance yet. He understands the economics that drives the market and the impact it is going to have. How do they deal with a resident that built in the 50-60's and now is faced with a 7 March 12, 2003 mega home being built next to them? He would recommend the staff discuss the issues and take it back to the Planning Commission and then take it to the Board of County Commissioners. He has approx. 50 homes in the Vanderbilt area right now that has potential violations because of the wall and pool areas with setbacks with the backyards. (Elevation drawings needed) A lot of variances will be coming in in the future. County Manager Jim Mudd suggested staff come back with a matrix approach, take it to the Planning Commission for pros and cons, give a draft to the BCC and then go to the Land Development Code in the fall cycle for the changes. Break -11:14 Reconvened - 11 :29 3. Density Calculations and Submereed Lands Patrick White - Assistant County Attorney - Density is the intensity of residential development per unit of area, i.e. a "ratio" and expressed as a number of dwelling units per acre. Collier County defines "density" in its Land Development Code and Growth Management Plan. - In GMP's Future Land Use Element, the density is based on gross acreage of development. - The GMP doesn't address density based on the basis of either submerged lands or marine wetlands. - The Future Land Use Map designates some areas where such land forms may exist as "Conservation" and on the Wetlands map delineates area of: - Mangrove Swamps & Barrier Beaches - Brackish marshes - Density comparisons were researched and given from other jurisdictions and counties by Barbara Burgeson. - Lee County was referred to and options were given by Patrick White. - 1) Continue current practices: decide on option to proposed "Density" LDC definition as part of this LDC Amendment cycle. - 2) Come back to BCC (or CCPC) & direct staff to provide recommendations to the BCC on how to amend GMP to reflect revised policy choices about allocation, or not, for density from either marine wetlands or from submerged lands or both, then amend the LDC as needed to conform to the GMP. Commissioner Fiala talked about a large amount of density on a small amount of land. Commissioner Coyle asked about a developer developing the land and a private road planned through the development, the right of way is not allowed to be used for total calculation of gross residential area. Mr. White answered that it is acreage acceptable for use. Rights of way are places from which they can draw density. 8 March 12, 2003 Commissioner Coyle wondered why they couldn't exclude the existing water from the calculation. Mr. White answered it is consistent with what the regulation could be and may be. It is a permissible thing to do according to Mr. White. Commissioner Halas didn't want to get involved in fresh water wetlands that can be used for TDR's. Only for coastal areas that incorporate marine wetlands or title waters. An example is the Dunes - mangroves and marine wetlands that could not be used for building, but 10-15 acres were developable. That area could be used as density and ended up with 14-17 story condominiums with 2 stories' of parking and a large density issue along the coastal areas. Turkey Bay was also used as part of the density. Had there been laws in effect as to density, it may have been more compatible to the area. There may be more issues in the future in District 1 because of the coastal marine wetlands in that area. Need to address these issues and is a way of containing density in coastal low lying areas. Planning Commissioner Mr. Richardson supported the coastal problem but can go inland. Many projects come before the Planning Commission where there is a significant area of wetlands. The issue of fresh water wetlands is a separate issue and also needs to be addressed. Decide what the net acreage should be and then come up with the measurements. Planning Commissioner Strain commented they have all seen the rural fringe and stewardship through the process and now to prohibit the value of the wetlands in those areas would undermine the processes and not be environmentally sound. Not to allow developers to develop fresh water wetlands in other areas is that they can cluster some of the development away from those wetlands. Should stay away from fresh water and concentrate on marine issues. SPEAKERS Dr. Richard Bing - Gulf Shore Drive resident - calculating density in the Vanderbilt Beach area is totally absurd. It can't be walked on, can't landscape it and is calculated density and should be eliminated. He wanted to hear where Burt Harris fits into the density issue and the counties position on the whole process. Nicole Ryan - SWFL Conservancy - Supports reassessing residential density calculations as they apply to submerged and marine wetlands. They are concerned that allowing submerged lands and marine wetlands for density calculations encourages over development of the eco system and provides a bonus to developers for land that would not be permitted. They ask Commission to direct staff to look at reassessing the issue. Sally Barker says she is confused - if she owned one acre of mangroves as a developer and wanted a permit to build a house - she likely wouldn't get it. She is wondering why the rules are different for development. 9 March 12,2003 Diane Ketcham - Vanderbilt Beach & Bay Assoc. - stated this is a practice that has been going on for many years in Collier County. It should not continue to go on. She boats through Turkey Bay, and is used for density calculations which is mind boggling. There is a high density on Vanderbilt Beach - 16 units per acre and should be reduced and stopped. They are rounding "up" the calculation rather than according to a fraction of up or down. Really need to reduce density especially in the coastal area and getting rid of the submerged land is one way of doing it. Cam Glasson- felt density calculations go against the Commissioners campaign promises to control growth. Rezoning commercials, property to residential and giving a bonus density is not controlling growth. Rezoning agricultural land without giving the farmers any compensation is not controlling growth. Another loophole is giving two uses per PUD. In Lee County they have excluded other non residential uses. Some developers in Collier County have been able to compute other residential land they have used as a golf course - residential and recreational use. Loophole should be closed to allow only one use per property. Commissioner Henning said mixed use is good use of the land. They would have to build more highways if it was one use per PUD. Brad Cornell- Collier County Audubon Society - creative and proactive thinking makes sense - bringing the subject of density back is recommended. He cautions on fresh water wetlands because they have new policies in their plan to protect resources and wetlands in the interior parts of the County and to remove that economic incentive to protect the resources and wetlands would be a mistake. They are focusing on marine wetlands and enjoy higher levels of protection. Joe Schmitt felt he had clear guidance on the marine wetland issue and not the fresh water wetlands issue because of the impact on current development of the LDC regards to the Eastern Lands and Rural Fringe Amendments. The issue of rounding should be rounded to the nearest whole number. Patrick White - Assistant County Attorney - anytime there is an adjustment between property rights and the governments regulation for the public health, safety and welfare and has potential to place an inordinate burden on a property owner- there is a potential of one year from date regulation becomes effective for a challenge under Burt Harris. Can become complex when property rights are vested. Not necessarily what the new regulations will do, but its how they apply to existing zoning and how they will affect existing property owners. That is the problem. The government has to be careful in its actions. It is difficult to Planned Unit Development districts to go back and undo rights that have been vested. Can change the regulations and have a prospective date when they become law. If solving the problems to things in existence -he is not sure they want to take a stand. But they will do the best they can recognizing there are problems. Will try to reach a solution different than 10-20 years ago and apply them. He doesn't feel those solutions will have Burt Harris challenges, unless they try to go backwards in time & undo rights that have vested. 10 March 12,2003 4. Coastal Construction Setback Line Barbara Burgeson - Environmental Services - she gave a power point presentation addressing the LDC: - The Growth Management Plan prohibits construction with exceptions for access and public benefit. The LDC through the CCSL variance process allows exceptions. - Prohibits alterations to the sand dunes and the vegetation seaward of the CCSL. - 3 variances are accepted and issued - one - number of existing similar structures in an established line to approve the variance - the other two are pipelines or piers, and temporary altered surfaces through beach nourishment or maintenance dredging type activities. - There are also permits. - Examples and aerials were given. - Well defined and environmentally stable shoreline is the Strand at Pelican Bay. - Lely Barefoot Beach - a unique situation - modified to allow some homes to be constructed more seaward then the CCSL line drawn elsewhere in the County. It jogs out at the end of the roads. - Some areas maintained the grounds in a native condition -last year a major project was issued CCSL permits that encouraged and permitted restoration ofthe Dune system - after storm deposited sand against homes at Lely Barefoot Beach. - Vanderbilt Beach more complicated discussing the continuous line of construction. - Vanderbilt Inn was discussed having issues with the setback lines for review. Staff would like direction to create one line in the Vanderbilt Beach area that would be used for variance reviews. Then they would not be pushed to allow the most seaward & inappropriately placed to be considered when determining the uniform construction. Commissioner Coyle asked about Lely Barefoot Beach. Barbara said there have been some issues with the beach garden areas dealing with the landscaping going beyond the CCSL and worked out a plan with the residents to correct over a series of years. She mentioned the history of what has happened in the past 2-3 years at Lely Barefoot Beach in the storm is sand that had washed completely up and adjacent and against those structures. Those homes were detrimental in that location and affected by that one storm so allowing something to be built out adjacent to that would not be recommended by staff. Planning Commissioner Strain mentioned there have been numerous attempts to seek variances for landscaping and pavers etc. Could they suggest that between the CCSL and the mega homes going up - an area should be landscaped for maintenance purposes for the home so they can't argue a hardship? The issue of pavers is not only at Barefoot Beach but another property. They have concerns on the pavers getting dislodged and end up buried in the beach and concerned about turtle season. 11 March 12,2003 It was a consensus to make the changes expressed. SPEAKERS Larry Wegner - stated he lives next to the Vanderbilt Inn. Another graphic showed the south end showing where they are going to tear down and build a new condo unit. Both areas want to build condos, so need to establish a line to stop them from encroaching. Nicole Ryan - Conservancy - the CCSL was to protect Coastal resources and also property from storm damage. The conservancy is concerned that variances to the CCSL need to be limited and restricted. The current LDC doesn't do that. Need to strengthen the criteria used for giving the variances to the CCSL and holding the line. Diane Ketcham - would like properties improved according to the law. No one on Vanderbilt Beach wants to build closer to the water and would hope that will not happen. They are concerned about build back and property rights. Doug Fee - President of the North Bay Civic Assoc. - He read something Patrick White had stated about the Future Land Use Element. Need to move not to gross land area but excludes submerged lands and wetlands from the equation. He would hope they could tighten up rewarding someone to take something they're trying to preserve and put the density closer to the sensitive areas. He supports Nicole Ryan in her position. Coastal Setback Lines - hold the line - protect sensitivity area. He showed a map from parks & recreation of Pelican Bay - they choose to put their density way from the coast. They have that sensitive area that won't be developed. In the North Bay area - not a lot developed - decision will have to be made on building in those areas. Joe Schmitt will look at criteria that will strengthen staffs ability to recommend disapproval for any type of encroachment under the CCSL. Break-12:45 PM Reconvened - 12:55 (The Planning Commissioners left at this time.) 5. Economic Development Stimulus Proposal Joe Schmitt introduced the program stating after the December meeting involving impact fees for Immokalee. He asked staff for a program for the entire county for all aspects. 12 March 12,2003 Helene Caseltine - Economic Dev. Mgr. with Planning Services Dept. and Tammy Nemachek - Economic Development Council- they will present ways to make Collier County more effective to the businesses that are interested in expanding or relocate to the area in Collier County. They were told to come back with a "toolbox" though a meager one. The programs they present are available to eligible companies throughout the County. The CRA advisory Boards will present programs of their own with supplements of what is being proposed. Tammy Nemachek - Executive Director of the Economic Development Council- She showed graphs and covered: - Why Economic Diversification is Important The Two Tiered Economy is what Collier County has Covered the median family income Though increasing the annual wage it is still below the State and United States average. Employment Growth Basis of Colliers Economy Today Formation of the Private/Public Partnership. Return on Investment Colliers Targeted Industries Jobs Created to Date Average Wage On Average, on Annual basis the companies they assist through the program pay on the average of25% more than Collier County's private sector average wage. Collier County's Incentives Tammy introduced Steve Mayberry - Senior Vice President Retention & Recruitment for Enterprise Florida - she continued the presentation and covered the following issues: - Florida's State Incentives - Qualified Target Industry Incentive - Capital Investment Tax Credit Program - High Impact Performance Incentive - competing for larger projects (no cost to county) - Economic Development Transportation Fund - List of Top Ten Site Selection Factor - Quality of Life Factors - Their clients compete for global market share & location decisions driven by costs. - Gave different incentives from other Counties for competition Commissioner Henning felt they should walk before they run and talked about the acreage at the Immokalee Airport that is basically free & clear and a great incentive for the right type of business to give the land away and not reduce fees. It would encourage growth for the area. They would still pay the impact fees because they saved at the other end. 13 March 12,2003 Commissioner Henning left at 1 :25 PM. Commissioner Coletta was concerned that this is geared for the skilled laborer. The average family income is $22,628 - his concern is; will what they are targeting for, in industry, be conducive for Immokalee. There is not a skilled laborer element ready to step into jobs that may be available. Discussion followed on the skilled and unskilled laborer in the Immokalee area along with the State & County programs. Tammy stated with the local programs there are 3 stipulations- 1) Separate criteria between enterprise zone area and the non-enterprise zone area 2) Different criteria for qualifying 3) The criteria is lessened in the enterprise zone area to an average wage of 50% of the County's wage Helen & Tammy continued with the Program: - Economic Diversification Pilot Program - A Toolbox Full of Tools - many Loan, Tax, and Grant Programs - Objectives - Program Essentials - Providing a fourth leg to their Economy - Program Descriptions - Fast Track Regulatory Process (would like in Ordinance form) - Comply with local Law - Covered Eligibility - Fiscal Impact & Implementation - Revolving Loan Program - Capital Investment Fund (set up by the County) - Eligibility - Fiscal Impact - Implementation - Property Tax Abatement Program - Eligibility - Fiscal Impact - Implementation - Job Creation Grant Program - Eligibility - Requirements - Eligibility Amounts - Fiscal Impact & Implementation - Workforce Development Grant Program - Eligibility & Amounts - Fiscal Impact & Implementation - Broadband Infrastructure Grant Program - Eligibility & Amounts - Fiscal Impacts & Implementation - Return on Investment - Examples were given - BCC Action 14 March 12,2003 - Prepare Ordinances & Specs - Prepare initial funding - Implement Program for 200312004 They are asking staff to move forward with all five Programs, with the exception of the CBDG, draft the documents necessary for review and approval with implementation and establish an economic fund of $1.5M. County Manager Jim Mudd asked why they couldn't recommend the CBDG. They were informed that if the BCC took action on it today it would hinder the application. It has to go through the Citizens Advisory Task Force first then recommended to the Board. Patrick White - Assistant County Attorney - he is urging caution as there is the requirement of the Citizen Participation process and wouldn't want to contaminate the process even though the BCC may support it. It would be appropriate to a few nods but not to take any full action. Commissioner Coyle asked about the average wages and incomes. The per capita personal income for Immokalee is $8,000 or approx. $16,000 per household. Discussion followed on finding and attracting jobs, solving the problem on wages health care, trauma centers, affordable housing and increasing salaries. The problems can not be solved until they can make sure the wage rate increases match the cost of living increases. He would like to provide larger incentives for the better paying jobs. They can increase the salaries or devalue the real estate, of which is not his choice. He supports the toolbox. Commissioner Halas wants to look at the big picture - five to ten years from now. Immokalee has a work force that is trainable and semi-skilled. He discussed the different businesses that would generate good jobs, pension plans and medical plans. Transportation is important - when a road is put through the area it will open up opportunities along with the airport. Look at long term gain. Commissioner Coletta would like to see the toolbox where it is and agreed with Commissioner Coyle's ideas. He would like to see ideas about tax abatements and impact fees being putting off in Immokalee. SPEAKERS Fred Thomas - retired - he felt a Naples address is a good incentive for a business to relocate. But getting on the west side of Orange Tree is another whole different world and something needs to be done about it. He talked about a city in Mississippi which was a depressed area and now a booming city. He recommends improving the quality of life with incentives and gives a real bonus to the employers by requiring them to live in the community. That would increase the impact on roads, increase the 15 March 12,2003 turn around of dollars in the community, retail potential plus many others. Need to make Immokalee a home to future workers, Immokalee could turn around. Greg Cardamone - he gave an example of a warehouse in Immokalee that tried to expand with a 15,000 foot expansion with the impact fees being $76,000 and the building steel $33,000. All plans have been put on hold until some relief can be gotten from the impact fees. It the impact fees were abated it would move their project forward employing 20 more people and retain 57 people with an average wage of $17,000. They pay property taxes, sales taxes and buy all their local produce from local farmers located in Collier County. Discussion followed between Commissioner Coletta and Joe Schmitt on impact fees and the different programs discussed. Any action would be done by October 15t in the next fiscal budget year. Joe Schmitt talked about incentive programs and extenuating circumstances for Mr. Cardamone. The BCC gave a consensus of nods to go forward with all 6 tools in the toolbox. Commissioner Coyle left at 2:15 PM. 6. Beach and Boat Report Marla Ramsey - Parks & Recreation - purpose of the report is to assess the Counties performance in providing beach access and boat launch facilities to county residents and visitors and future plans. Marla did a slide presentation according to the handout and her report covered: - Current Boat Launch Inventory - Trailer parking deficit of 264 spaces - Collier Blvd Boating Park - planned expansion can add 47 trailer parking spaces north and 28 spaces south. - Bayview Park - 120 boats were launched on a Saturday in May 2002 - 16 spaces available. - Projected Boat Launch Needs - 6 Specific Recommendations for Boat Launches were covered. - Additional access Issues and Opportunities - Wiggins Pass Marina & Naples City Dock - Current Beach Access Inventory - North & South - Inaccessible County-owned Coastal Lands - Pelican Bay North - Projected Beach Parking Need - In 10 years the County will be deficit of 900 beach parking spaces requiring 15 acres of and $IM in parking lot development costs alone. - 7 Recommendations for Beach Access were given for the various Beaches - Fiscal Options - Operating Budgets - Parks Impact Fees 16 March 12, 2003 - Boater Improvement funds - Grant revenues - Tourist development funds County Manager Jim Mudd mentioned they have discussed beach stickers on cars in the past looking for increasing revenues. TDC dollars might not be available or applicable. Marla has no other place to go for revenues except the general fund. Need to think about different revenue sources for Parks & Rec. User fees are used to offset the cost of maintaining the facilities. Launch fees were discussed. Residents park for free - the County had a $13,000 day on a Sunday at Vanderbilt and Clam Pass which are from visitors only. - Conclusion - She covered the level of service for beach parking, boat launch lanes and parking. New facilities are needed, new sources of funding and capital dollars needed for renovation as well as development. Beach stickers were discussed. Marla mentioned they are working for a beach agreement with the City of Naples. Commissioner Halas had a question about the Vanderbilt walkways. He understands they are deeded rights to Homeowner groups. Heidi Ashton is reviewing the issue again and will let the Parks and Recreation know. These are walkways that have been provided by the developer of the Conners area. The County attorney's opinion back in 1994 was that it was of public access. When the opinion is received, Marla will let the BCC know. SPEAKERS Frank Donahue - he is a recreational boater and works in the industry and also a member of the Parks & Recreation of Collier County. He has worked on some of the issues in the past and encourages the Commissioners to move forward on the recommendations for the boat ramp access and parking problems. There are always problems at the ramps being crowded and a parking problem. The cars are always parked along the roads illegally. With the population growth going up it will become more of a problem. He talked about Goodland, the permit process and everyone suffering in not being able to use their boats unless these situations are resolved. Need funding for property in North Naples to park vehicles with trailers. Need access for the public to go boating. People need to have some place to launch their boat on the water and keep it there for a reasonable cost. Bud Martin - Vice President of Beach & Bay Association - he commended the Commissioners for looking forward, but not enough. The reason there are problems in Coastal Collier County is because it is Coastal Collier County. They are 17 March 12, 2003 underestimating the value of having beach access and a nice beach experience, and boat access to the continued growth of the County. In 30 years they will look back on the overpasses and not care - but they will ask if they can they get to the beach and care if they cannot. The County is being shortsighted in asking ifthey should charge $3 or $5 for the boat access that could bring in another $10,000 per year versus spending $50M for a flyover that many do not want. People enjoy Vanderbilt Beach for various reasons. If the county is going to transport people there needs to be facilities. Need to provide more beach access to more people - whether a $5 or $10 beach sticker there won't be enough money to generate enough funds for what they want to accomplish. Vanderbilt Inn is for sale - maybe the County could purchase the property. Think ahead 20 years and how Collier County can protect their image with coastal access, water, boating and beaching. Have to be concerned about health and public safety, and sanitation and has to be policed. Gulf Shore Drive is a very narrow Street. Marla is operating with a limited budget, and the County seems to be looking backwards rather than looking forward. Need to buy land when it becomes available. Commissioner Halas felt they should purchase the Vanderbilt Inn for several reasons and it will pay for itself. Joe Connelly - Gulf Shore Drive - he is opposed to a shuttle. It is very important to have facilities. Need to provide these services or the public will take other means of use that is not very pleasant. Issues are traffic, garbage and the needs of the public which more important are bathroom facilities. Marla mentioned they do not have the land available to put facilities at those particular locations discussed. Doug Fee - there are a lot of problems ahead of everyone and wants to enjoy the beaches and the bays which is one of their greatest treasures. When the Wiggins pass marina issue comes before the Commissioners, he hopes they remember the dialogue that there are problems and deficiencies. Marla asked for general recommendations on specifics and asked if the Commissioners were supportive of the Parks & Recreation continuing with the 5 year plan they are reviewing. Commission Coletta asked for her to bring back a whole package. Diane Ketcham wanted the Commissioner to know that the deeded accesses in the middle of Gulf Shore Drive are not private. There are approx. 10,000 people who can walk or bike to Vanderbilt Beach and is totally open for them to walk through. The only concern is whether the County owns it and feels they can make improvements, but is open to the public. Commissioner Coletta responded he is pleased they can bike or walk to the beach. Beach access is a limited resource that will not be there and he will fight for every foot of it. He wants Marla to bring back a package with bathroom facilities in it. 18 March 12, 2003 Commissioner Coletta left at 3:15 PM. Diane continued with the views of the residents of Vanderbilt Beach. 50% of the parking spaces for beach access in the County are in Vanderbilt Beach proposed by the Parks & Rec. They aren't saying not to come to Vanderbilt Beach and everyone is welcomed, but is saying there should be other alternatives in the County. In speaking with Marla and John she suggested the concept of water taxis or shuttles. WCI and Pelican Isle are dropping people off at the end of Wiggins Pass by beach shuttles. It is something Collier County could do and a selling feature for tourism. There is a matter of parking, but there is a matter of parking for everything for beach access. Vanderbilt Beach, Gulf Shore Drive is only a mile long - just so much they can do for the County. The ends and middle are open for the public, they can bike or walk and she is saying it needs to be shared throughout the County. Dr. Richard Bing stated he did not hear anything about measuring capacity of the beach. As residents they are open to the public - but will run out of capacity at some point in time. This needs to be taken into consideration when talking about cars, facilities, and traffic. Several lots on Flanlingo are available and together for a boat dock for shuttling people to Lely Barefoot Beach. ***** There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by the order of the Chair at 3:30 PM. COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND PLANNING COMMISSIONERS >y L:.H (I'D . _{,.) '-'t'.' ",. ,,(,~:; ,r:lTT,ES'F: ~ L,; (..... ..- , . .' ..' ... ~ IDWlGHT E....RQCK, CLERK ~. "-I ~~.'~.~ k. "\,' '4~~~Mto ~ " S 1 gn"a-cure on 1y · These minutes approved by the Board on or as corrected CHAlRMA~sl~ENmNG Li.- ~ -o~ '1- ~{)3 , as presented j 19