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BCC Minutes 09/05/2002 B (Budget)September 5, 2002 COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS BUDGET MEETING Naples, Florida, September 5, 2002 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 5:05 p.m. in the County Commission Meeting Room, 3301 Tamiami Trail East, Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: JAMES COLETTA DONNA FIALA FREDERICK COYLE THOMAS HENNING JAMES D. CARTER, PhD. ALSO PRESENT' James Mudd, County Manager; Michael Smykowski, Budget Director; Sue Filson; Executive Manager; Leo Ochs, Assistant County Manager; David Wiegel, County Attorney; Jim Gibson, Productivity Committee; Janet Vasey, Productivity Committee; Ken Pineau, Emergency Services Interim Administrator; Antone Burtscher, Helicopter Operations Chief Pilot; John Dunnuck, Public Services. Page 1 COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AGENDA Thursday, September $, 2002 5:05 p.m. NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. ALL REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO FIVE (5) MINUTES UNLESS PERMISSION FOR ADDrrIONAL TIME IS GRANTED BY THE CHAIRMAN. 1. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE 2. ADVERTISED PUBLIC I:IE. ARING - BCC - Fiscal Year 2003 Tentative Budget. A. Discussion of Tentative Millage Rates and Increases Over the Rolled Back Millage Rates B. Review and Discussion of Changes to the Tentative Budget C. Budget Discussion Items ca Lee County Trauma Cemer Funding (Commissioner Coletta) D. Public Comments and Questions: E. Resolution to Adopt the Tentative Millage Rates F. Resolution to Adopt the Amended Tentative Budget G. Announcement of Tentative Millage Rates and Percentage Changes in Property Tax Rates H. Announcement of Final Public Hearing as Follows: Final Public Hearing on the FY 2002-03 Collier County Budget Wednesday, September 18, 2002 5:05 p.m. Collier County Government Center W. Harmon Turner Building'(F) Third Floor, Boardroom Naples, Florida 3. ADJOURN. September 5, 2002 CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Ladies and gentlemen, if you would all please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance. (Whereupon, the Pledge of Allegiance was recited and the meeting continued as follows:) CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Welcome everybody. Mr. Mudd? MR. MUDD: Commissioner, I'm going to try to hopefully save some time for some folks that are here in the audience and then we'll mm this over to Michael Smykowski. The Board just spent almost three and a half hours in a workshop that basically talked about landscape beautification, and -- and some of the folks in this audience were here for that and some weren't. The people here tonight that are interested in the Livingston Phase II MSTU that has to with Grey Oaks, Kensington or Wyndemere, can I have a show of hands of how many people are here for that? Okay. Put your hands down, please. That's kind of what I thought. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Oh, no, no. Save them for the end, or else the room will empty out. MR. MUDD: And I just want to -- I just want to help you a little bit because I -- I want to tell you what the Board directed some of the members of that MSTU and some of your representatives today from your homeowners associations and things to do between now and the-- and the 18th of September. First of all, the TRIM notice that went out as far as the tax bill that went out to your particular homeowners associations and your residents said two mils. That was a maximum amount, and that was indeed not the intent of that MSTU. That's first. And -- and they were basically recommending some .75 of a mil and -- and that's that part of the story, so as far as that notice, my Page 2 September 5, 2002 apologies for that particular notice to you. But in -- but in hindsight, as you look at that, we got at an issue today that we might not have got at as far as MSTU's and how they are established, and what happens when the developer still controls the organization, when they set that up and what happens when -- when the residencies -- residents come in and buy their homes and how are they represented if there is some tax issue. And we talked about that and how we are going to resolve that so it doesn't happen again. What we -- what the Board basically told the representatives of that MSTU is to go back, figure out how, number one, how people are represented in that MSTU, and right now, from what we were told, the representation on that committee is one representative from Kensington, one representative from Grey Oaks and three from Wyndemere, and that's what we heard today. And I can't tell you fact or fiction in that particular junction, but -- but there are about twelve people that basically talked about that today and that story was pretty consistent. We asked them to go back and make sure that their representation was correct in that it represented everybody. The next piece we talked about was, there is about $280,000 worth of obligations that that MSTU has -- has come to the Board and asked for as far as loans from -- from the County General Fund. One of the big dollar amounts was $228,000 for decorative street lighting, because the street lighting that was being planned for that stretch of road wasn't good enough for that -- for that particular area on Livingston Phase II, and we -- we have basically put in all the -- all the places where it's going to mount into the ground and we've ordered those street lights based on their desires, and they basically asked the Board for a loan for those -- for those dollars with the promise that they would pay back that loan in a two-year period of time. Page 3 September 5, 2002 Another was a $20,000 advance -- and I promise I won't talk some more and I'll slow down for you, and was another $20,000 advance for administrative services that was going to be paid back in the first year. I will tell you if you take a look at that loaned amount and you took a look of the values of the -- of the properties that are there in that MSTU, the mil rate would come in, and we did some - we did some stubby pencil rate, the mil rate would come in, if it was going to be paid back in one year, at .3309. If it was going to be paid back over a two-year period of time, that mil rate would have been .788. And -- and what I'm going to say to you is the Board is not going to make a decision on the mil rate for that MSTU, until that MSTU committee comes back and tells the Board how they are going to pay back that debt that they incurred. Now, that could be talking to the developers from -- from Grey Oaks and from Kensington that -- that formed that MSTU, whatever it takes, but they are going to get back with the staff and with the Board to tell us how they want to go at getting at that process. So until they come back to the Board and tell us how they are going to pay us back, the Board isn't going to make a decision on that millage rate, so that millage rate wOn't be decided upon until the 18th of September. So I -- I give you that, just in case you were looking for that information, and you are going to tell the Board, in that process, I want to make sure that you had that information up front, so if you -- if you want to say something different in front of the Board at a later time as this goes on, that's fine. But I didn't want to have you sit here for a three-hour period of time and find that out later and said, well, I would have went home already if I would have had known that, so I just wanted to make sure before we started, you had that information because that happened in Page 4 September 5, 2002 the last three and a half hours at the landscaping workshop that the Commission just finished. Commissioner? CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yes. Mr. Mudd, do you know when the Channel 16 or 14 or whatever it may be, in one area or the other, is going to be playing back the one there on the landscape media workshop that we had? MR. MUDD: No, I don't know, sir. But it went live this afternoon while we were doing it, but I'll -- I'll get the replay schedule for you before we finish. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yeah. If we could get it early enough, we could inform the audience, because I believe they are going to be playing it back this evening. If they are, they may wish to watch the whole proceedings that took place a couple of hours earlier. MR. SMYKOWSKI: And, Commissioners, for the benefit of the folks who are affected by this MSTU -- for the record, Michael Smykowski, Budget Director, the two mil tax levy equates to, in lay terms, $200 per $100,000 of taxable value, so depending on the type of property you live in, obviously, I think you can do the math and figure that out, and the TRIM notice actually did that for you. The -- the proposed revisions, we are talking in the neighborhood of $33 per $100,000 of value, which obviously would be significantly less, and that -- that assumes that the MSTU would be paying those costs for the street lights and the loan for administrative services back in a one-year period. Obviously, if it were over two years, the order of magnitude is about $18 per 100,000 of value, so that obviously has some significant changes from what you -- each of you might have received on your Trim notice. I just wanted to clarify that for you- all's benefit. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And Commissioner Coyle? Page 5 September 5, 2002 COMMISSIONER COYLE: I just want to get to the bottom line on this very quickly. You will not have to pay the taxes that were contained on the notice that was sent to you, increased taxes. It's that simple. You do not have to pay those increased taxes. Depending upon how we work out the reimbursement to the county for the monies that were advanCed, you might be -- you might be assessed, and if I did the math right, about $75 for a $250,000 home. And that would be for one year only, and I believe that would pay the whole -- the whole amount off, so -- so don't worry about that big tax bill notice that you received. It's not going to happen. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I believe what -- CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Mr. Henning. COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- Jim Mudd said was correct, what took place today, Commissioner Coyle, and that's probably one option, what you just stated, so it really depends on the Advisory Board. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: But with all that said, we hope you will stay for the full meeting. We love to have an active audience. You'll find the subject material to be very interesting. COMMISSIONER COYLE: As long as you don't speak. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you so much for coming out. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, my goodness. The place is emptying out. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We'll give them a few minutes to clear out before we begin. Okay. We're ready to proceed. I believe we can go ahead. It's - Item #2A Page 6 September 5, 2002 DISCUSSION OF TENTATIVE MILLAGE RATES AND INCREASES OVER THE ROLLED BACK MILLAGE RATES MR. MUDD: I'll mm this over to Michael Smykowski, Commissioner. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Michael, go ahead. MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes, sir. Thank you. For the record again, Michael Smykowski, Budget Director. As required in Florida Statute, the first discussion item of substance at the public hearings is the discussion of the tentative millage rates and the increase over the rolled back rate. And if you would turn to page 2A, or Item 2A, page one, I'll walk through a brief summary of those proposed tax rates. The General Fund is millage neutral. We are at the proposed millage rate of 3.8772, is the same millage rate as that which was levied in Fiscal Year 02. Florida Statute requires you, at the public hearings, to express the percent change as a function of the rolled back millage rate, which represents the tax rate that would generate the same amount of tax revenue as that levied in the prior fiscal year, exclusive of new construction. What that does, it accounts for the fact that over time, property tends to appreciate in value, so the percentage increase over the rolled back rate is 12.4 percent, but the tax rate itself is staying constant at 3.8772. And I might add the -- the bulk of funds generated in that -- of additional funds generated through the increased value have been dedicated to roads. That was the Board's number one priority this year. You have increased the allocation of funding to the Road and Bridge Fund by Page 7 September 5, 2002 three million dollars to free up that gas tax money to enable those funds to be used for road construction. You have established a 5.9 million dollar transfer from the General Fund for the first installment on the outstanding debt or equivalent to the first year installment and the outstanding debt anticipated to be issued in the upcoming fiscal year. And in accordance with the Board direction, a reserve for future road construction was also established in late June to the tune of 4.2 million dollars. Next fund is the Water Pollution Control Fund. There is a proposed millage decrease. The percent change over the rolled back is a decrease of 7.2 percent. The proposed millage is .0347. The millage decrease is a -- is a function of available grant administrative funds being used to offset costs within that area. The Unincorporated Area General Fund accounts for services provided in -- within the unincorporated area of the county. The county is a principal service provider for the bulk of the population in the county because most county residents do not also reside within a corporate city boundary. That is also millage neutral at .8069, which is the same millage rate as levied in FY 02. The increase above the rolled back rate is 10.3 percent. The principal increases within the unincorporated area include enhanced code enforcement to provide for an evening -- evening shift, enhancements to comprehensive planning. There is also two millions dollars in keeping with the Board's direction of establishing roads as the number one priority. Two million dollars was allocated for -- to enhance road resurfacing efforts. Obviously, there's a great emphasis on new road construction, but maintenance of the existing road network is probably equally as important, and as such, staff allocated funds toward that end. Page 8 September 5, 2002 The Golden Gate Community Center has a proposed millage decrease. The change from the -- below the rolled back rate is 26.9 percent due to a decrease in budget and capital outline based on needs within that MSTU and an increase in taxable value. With the Naples Park Drainage, there is no proposed tax levy. Pine Ridge Industrial Park, there is a slight millage increase to .0516 mils. That's an increase of 12.4 percent above the rolled back rate. On the smaller MSTU's, you also have to look in terms of the total scope. In the Pine Ridge Industrial Park, you are talking about -- about $2400 in additional taxes, so while the percentage might be high, you are talking, again, $2400. There is a maintenance contract that is being rebid in the upcoming year and staff anticipates a slight increase with inflationary adjustments there. Victoria Park Drainage, there is a slight increase in the millage, 2.1761. It's 10.5 percent above the rolled back rate. You are talking about a $400 increase in the tax levy overall. Golden Gate Parkway Beautification levies a constant millage that's recommended by advised -- Citizen Advisory Committee of one half mil. That's a 10.1 percent increase above the rolled back rate, and that's a function of the increased taxable value within that MSTU. Naples Production Park MSTU, there's an $1800 decrease in the tax levy. Again, the -- the percentage decrease below the rolled back rate is -- is rather large at 19.6 percent. Overall, we are talking about an $1800 decrease in the tax levy. Vanderbilt Beach MSTU is a-- is a new proposed levy this year at one half mil, which would generate $917,300 in tax revenue for median beautification within that corridor. Isle of Capri Fire, there is a 71.7 percent increase above the rolled back rate. That was due to the policy decision to increase the Page 9 September 5, 2002 millage that the Board adopted at a previous public hearing this year to 1.5 mils from the prior year levy of one mil. Ochopee Fire, that's an 8.3 percent increase. They levy a constant -- constant millage of four mils. Collier County Fire is a two-mil levy, that's -- that's constant as well. It's an increase of seven percent based on the preliminary taxable value within that area. The Goodland/Horr's Island Fire MSTU, there is a decrease of 3.1 percent below the rolled back rate. Mr. Ochs worked with the City of Marco Island and we've renegotiated an extension to that contract for fire service within that area at the same cost, so I think that's obviously a very cost effective means of providing that service. Radio Road Beautification, again, that's governed by a Citizen Advisory Committee making recommendations to the Board as to the budget. That is a proposed half mil tax levy consistent with prior year levies. That's 4.7 percent above the rolled back rate. Sable Palm Road MSTU, there is no proposed tax levy. Lely Golf Estates Beautification has a two mil levy, increase of 6.7 percent above the rolled back rates, and that's a function of the taxable value within that district as well, and that is also the recommendation of the Advisory Committee. Hawksridge Stormwater Pumping MSTU is within as well, a Stormwater Drainage MSTU within the Hawksridge Subdivision. There is a decrease of 54.4 percent below the rolled back rate and that's, again, a major percentage decrease, but we are talking about a $1200 decrease in the tax levy. It's a relatively small MSTU. Forest Lakes Roadway & Drainage MSTU, there is an increase of 226.1 percent above the rolled back rate. Prior to this year, the ordinance provided for a maximum tax levy of one mil. That was increased at the recommendation of the Advisory Committee through an advertised public hearing at a regular commission meeting to three Page 10 September 5, 2002 mils, and that is the recommendation of that Citizen Advisory Committee. Immokalee Beautification MSTU is again, a one mil tax levy. That's consistent with what it's been for a number of years governed or administered by a Citizen Advisory Committee as well, an 8.3 percent increase above the rolled back rate. Bayshore Avalon Beautification is a two mil levy as it was in the prior year. That's a 12.6 percent increase above the rolled back rate. Livingston Road, obviously, Mr. Mudd already covered that. The -- the TRIM notice went out at two mils. We'll reach some consensus as to where we are going to be on September 18th, but we will not make that change tonight, obviously until those final decisions are made. Parks GOB Debt Service is a decrease of six percent below the rolled back rate. You have essentially level debt service requirements and the increased taxable value translates to a lower millage rate overall. Isle of Capri Debt Service, there is no tax levy. Collier County Lighting, there's a decrease of 9.3 percent below the rolled back rate as a result of increase carry-forward revenue that's available. The recommended tax levy is decreasing. Naples Production Park, there's an increase of 4.2 percent above the rolled back rate. The proposed tax levy is .0420 mils. That's an increase in the tax levy of $600. And finally, Pelican Bay MSTU, overall, the proposed millage rate is a seven tenths of a percent increase above the rolled back rate and that's a function of an increase in the security contract. So overall, the aggregate millage rate, which takes into account all the MSTU's, is 4.597, which is an increase above the rolled back rate of 13.74 percent. And I appreciate your indulgence in that. That is statutorily required to walk through those and the large Page 11 September 5, 2002 number of MSTU's that are administered in Collier County obviously draws out that discussion a bit. Item #2B REVIEW AND DISCUSSION OF CHANGES TO THE TENTATIVE BUDGET With that, I would like to move to Item 2B, which is a summary of changes to the tentative budget. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Can we just stop and emphasize something here? MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes, sir. I would be happy to. COMMISSIONER COYLE: What you've just said is that the millage rate this Board is adopting for the Ad Valorem property taxes for the next fiscal year is exactly the same as it was last fiscal year. MR. SMYKOWSKI: That is correct. For your principal taxing authorities, the General Fund, which our service is provided on a county-wide basis and paid by all residents or taxpayers of Collier County, as well as the Unincorporated Area, which excludes residents who live in municipalities within Collier County, the three, Marco, City of Naples and Everglades City. COMMISSIONER COYLE: So there is no tax rate increase, right? MR. SMYKOWSKI: That is correct. The rate is constant. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. MR. SMYKOWSKI: Summary of changes to the budget overall, Item 2B, pages 1 and 2, they total $113,893,500, and while the amount is significant, I will also tell you it's a -- it's fairly readily explained. Page 12 September 5, 2002 Each year, due to limitations of our financial system, projects -- capital projects that are budgeted in the current fiscal year are not automatically rolled forward in the system if projects -- projects are either not expended or in -- contracts encumbered prior to the close of the fiscal year. So we have the option of bringing forth a -- a slew of budget amendments at the first meeting in October, because otherwise, appropriations would lapse at the close of the fiscal year on September 30th, and that would essentially render your budget document that would have been adopted, fairly useless because of the magnitude of the changes. Our option -- the course we have taken over the last probably five or six years has been to re-evaluate the contracts or capital projects that are or are not under contract, are anticipated to be by the close of the fiscal year, and simply re-budget those contracts that are not under way or that have not been yet approved by the Board of County Commissioners. And of that total amount, there is one -- they are primarily focused in three significant areas, Water and Waste Water Capital Projects, Beach Renourishment Projects and Road Projects. And I know Mr. Feder and his staff have been working, and we anticipate a whole host of road projects coming to fruition in the first quarter of the new fiscal year. In addition to those changes are the Tax Collector's Budget, was not, as required by law, is not submitted until October 1st, so we have that change built in. In addition, the Board has made some interim decisions sub -- prior to the -- or following the release of the tentative budget, such as assuming responsibility for the state roads from the FDOT. Obviously, we had to build that into our budget, that reimbursement Page 13 September 5, 2002 agreement that we now have in -- have worked out with the State of Florida. With that, that would conclude -- conclude the changes to the tentative budgets. And that would bring us to budget discussion items. We do have one item, the Lee County Trauma Center Funding. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Before you go on, Commissioner Coyle has a question. MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Just a very quick question with respect to these -- these carry-forwards. MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Next year, I -- we have all discussed it, a different and hopefully more efficient method of budgeting. These carry-forwards could, if not clearly identified, distort a base line budget for next year. Are you going to be able to clearly identify what was carried over versus what was essential for operation in CIP for this -- this year? MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. So you will be able to separate those carry-forwards when we get ready to do -- start from a base line budget next year? MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you. Please continue. Item #2A DISCUSSION OF TENTATIVE MILLAGE RATES AND Page 14 September 5, 2002 MR. SMYKOWSKI: That brings us -- there was one item that was added as a budget discussion item, proposed funding for the Lee County Trauma Center. I believe, Senator Saunders is here. SENATOR SAUNDERS: Thank you. Mr. Chairman and members of the County Commission, for the record, my name is Burt Saunders. I live here in Naples. And I was asked by the Lee Memorial Health System to bring this issue to the Collier County Commission, the issue of-- of Collier County paying what we consider to be its fair share for the funding of the Lee Memorial Health System Trauma Center, the Level II trauma center, emphasis being on the regional trauma center. It's a trauma center that serves a five-county region, Collier County being one of those counties. I will tell you that that crowd of folks that -- that left, my understanding is that they were all in support of this, so I can say that just to let you know there is a tremendous amount of support out there. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Do you have the signatures, Burt? SENATOR SAUNDERS: I'll get the signatures. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. SENATOR SAUNDERS: There's -- there's a couple of reasons, or lots of reasons why it's fundamentally fair for Collier County to participate in the funding and support of the Lee Memorial Trauma Center. I'm going to give you a couple of those. First of all, as I mentioned, it's' a regional facility that is of great significance to the citizens of Collier County. We have several folks that are going to talk to you this evening about how important a Level II trauma center is for this region. Page 15 September 5, 2002 And secondly, it's a state policy, and I've given this out to a lot of people. I think each of you probably has a copy of this, but it's a state policy that neighboring counties should support the regional health care facilities that support those counties that -- that service those counties. Section 154.302 of the Florida Statutes basically says it's the policy of the State of Florida that neighboring counties that benefit from these types of regional facilities are obligated to help support those facilities. A subsequent section, 154.306 actually provides for a funding mechanism. And if you use that funding mechanism, Collier County could potentially be responsible for up to a million dollars. That's four dollars per capita population each year to fund the neighboring trauma center. So there's -- there's a state policy that is -- that is very clear, one that unfortunately perhaps hasn't been utilized by very many counties. I will tell you that there is a lawsuit pending currently. A trauma center in Palm Beach County treating a lot of folks from Martin County, and Martin County is determined that none of those people that live in Martin County are really Martin County residents, so they refuse to support the Palm Beach Trauma Center. There's -- there's litigation on that issue. I tried to, as I was analyzing this, come up with a mechanism to determine what Collier County's fair share of funding would be. Now this facility loses approximately ten million dollars a year, and approximately seven percent of that loss is directly attributable to citizens of Collier County. And we have -- Dr. Drew is going to talk a little bit about how we arrive at that $700,000 number, the seven percent of-- of the ten million dollar loss. But we've concluded, based on the right-of-ways to get that number, that that's a fair calculation of what Collier Page 16 September 5, 2002 County should be paying to Lee Memorial Trauma Center for those services. Now, I understand how difficult it is for members of the Collier County Commission to provide funding for a facility that is in a different county. I've sat in your -- your position in the past. I know how difficult that is. But I want you to keep in mind that this is a regional facility. It's no different than a regional jail. I know there has been a lot of discussion over the years in trying to build a regional jail, where Collier County would pay it's fair share of the operations and construction of a regional jail. This is no different. It's a regional facility. If this facility closes, and I guarantee you, after you hear the testimony tonight, you will -- you will come away with the understanding that this facility could close if local governments, Lee County included, don't come to the table to support this facility. If this facility closes, you are going to have people knocking on your door and saying we need to have a Level II trauma center in Collier County because our citizens are literally dying because of the lack of a facility. If that happens, somebody is going to be saying, we need seven, eight, nine million dollars a year, not just $700,000, so I will tell you that I think from a financial standpoint, you are getting a tremendous bargain for this facility. As all of you know, there's a - a sales tax issue on the ballot in Lee County. That may or may not pass in November. Our funding from Collier County is not dependent upon that. It's our fair share, regardless of what happens with that sales tax referendum and there will be some explanation of that. If that sales tax referendum fails, I guarantee you that Lee County Government is going to be called on to make up the shortfall, Page 17 September 5, 2002 and they are going to be saying to Collier County, hey, listen, guys, we need to have the support from the surrounding counties. Again, keep in mind that this is a fairness issue. I will be here to answer questions. There will be several other people here to answer questions, but the first formal presentation will be from Mr. Jim Nathan, who is the CEO of the Lee Memorial Health System. MR. NATHAN: Well, Burt has already introduced me. I'm Jim Nathan, President of Lee Memorial Health System. To give you just a little bit of background on myself and the role here and Lee Memorial Health System as we lead into this -- this issue. I have been affiliated with Lee Memorial in some form for over 25 years, and of that time, about 18 years as the CEO of Lee Memorial Health System. The system itself comprises a number of-- of hospitals and other facilities. We operate Lee Memorial Hospital in downtown Fort Myers. We operate Health Park Medical Center on Summerlin on the way towards Sanibel and Fort Myers Beach. We operate Cape Coral Hospital, obviously in Cape Coral. We operate a 60-bed rehabilitation hospital that also serves this region that is located inside Lee Memorial Hospital. And we operate a 75- bed children's hospital that's located inside Health Park Medical Center. We also have a 112-bed skilled-nursing facility that is located on the Health Park Campus. And we, in addition, without listing all the other businesses and services, we are in a 50/50 partnership with Naples Community Health System for the Bonita Community Health Center. That opened a year and a half, almost two years ago now. Lee Memorial Health System is the largest public health care system in the State of Florida that operates without any direct local tax support. We have no taxing power and we receive no -- no local tax support. Page 18 September 5, 2002 Through the years, we have actually been very proud of-- of that designation and, in fact, have not made a major effort to try to get local community support, because we think that it has forced us to operate more efficiently and to also make sure, in a competitive environment, and we have been in an extremely competitive environment in Lee County, that we provide high quality services. I think a couple of -- of ways of identifying that we are operating efficiently, on national standards, we are in the 25th percentile in almost every category that you can look at in terms of cost efficiency, and at the same time, while we have a low cost structure, we also have had great quality outcomes. There is an organization called Solution that tries to monitor looking at -- at quality outcomes, morbility, mortality rates, et cetera. And we've been identified in the top one hundred in the nation in every category that they review. They review cardiology, orthopedics, intensive care, stroke and obstetrics, and in every one of those categories, Lee Memorial has been identified as one of the top one hundred in the nation, not just in the State of Florida. The -- we also provide many services on a regional basis that are complex, and in many cases, very expensive. But these services we have provided, because we think they are the right thing to do to, keep patients as close to home as possible, to provide high quality outcomes and to keep people and their families as intact as we possibly can. For example, we operate one of Florida's eleven prenatal intensive care centers, and this includes care for high-risk moms-to- be, very complicated cases. We also provide the -- for what is called Level III Neonatal Intensive Care, the most complex of tiny, little, usually premature infants and infants at risk. Page 19 September 5, 2002 We also operate one of Florida's thirteen memory disorder centers. I didn't want to forget that, as well as the trauma center that's a -- we're discussing here this evening. We are also among the five busiest major joint replacement centers in the nation. I share those things with you because we are proud of them. We are also proud of the results. And we're not here just coming forward and trying to -- to cry wolf or to raise an issue that -- that -- that is something that we're just saying, well, we had a -- had some time on our hands and we wanted to go do it. We recognize how difficult it is to ask for money and even more difficult that it is in the position that you are in to allocate scarce taxpayers monies, but we think that we have an important case to share with you this evening. Even with these Various accolades and the provisions of-- of important regional health services, we find the complexity of maintaining these vital services is becoming increasingly difficult. Many of you are aware that the Nemorus Children's Clinic left Southwest Florida, it will be two years ago this November, citing losses of two to three million dollars per year. So Lee Memorial Health System stepped up to try to figure out how to maintain as many as possible of these pediatrics subspecialists within our community. By financial support from Lee Memorial Health System and also philanthropic support that came both from Lee County, as well as Collier County, we were able to keep many of these specialists in the community. And we have been successful with that and we now feel that we are poised to grow, that our children's hospital, but more importantly, to maintain these key pediatric subspecialists and to have more of them recruited to come to the community. Well, we were able to deal with that one, but this one became even more complex for us, the situation related to our trauma center. Page 20 September 5, 2002 In the 1980's and the early 1990's, Florida established a state-wide trauma network, recognizing that there is truly a golden hour to protect and save individuals whose lives have been impacted by complex medical emergencies. In 1993, Lee Memorial Health System received state designation for the counties of Lee, Charlotte, Hendry and Glades based upon the way that the State of Florida set up its designations. They had a vision at that time of about 44 trauma centers scattered throughout the state. The -- Collier was identified as an independent trauma district. Since Collier is not at present operating a trauma center, then it is incumbent upon emer -- Lee -- Collier Emergency Medical Services and other individuals in caring for these complex medical cases to identify the most appropriate place for that care. And because we are providing the service in many cases and, in fact, in many more cases than over previous years at a growth rate that Dr. Drew will share with you, is ex-financial. We are seeing more and more Collier patients utilizing our trauma service. We are not upset with that. We're glad that we can provide that service and that care, but there is a stand-by cost and operational cost that goes along with keeping this center open. The -- Florida has never adequately funded for the trauma centers in the trauma districts in the trauma network that it created in the 1990's. And until last year, we never received a penny from the State of Florida in support of the trauma centers. The reality is, is that we are not expecting to see any new dollars coming from Tallahassee of any significant amount to keep this open, but -- but at the same time, Tallahassee has identified various sources of-- of revenue opportunity and are encouraging communities to step forward to try and deal with this difficult issue. Page 21 September 5, 2002 Just a year ago this week, US News and World Report did a -- a major study on emergency services in crisis across this nation. And we had already been monitoring this growing challenge, providing emergency services as well as trauma services, but as we continue to monitor it, we became more and more aware that this wasn't an issue solely to Florida. It truly was a national issue. And in recent months, we have tracked the -- the challenges and the progress, or in some cases, lack of progress made in communities, from Los Angeles to Charleston, West Virginia; from Las Vegas to Washington D.C. We haven't been to all these places but we followed the newspaper articles, from Phoenix to Cleveland, trauma centers are closing across this nation. In the last few months, trauma centers in Maryland, Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Oregon have also closed. At one time, Florida had over 35 designated trauma centers. Today it's operating 20 centers. That's not a trend that -- that portends the right things on behalf of that golden hour and on behalf of saving lives for the citizens that we serve. While some communities are stepping to the plate to protect and preserve their emergency services and trauma services networks, the trauma centers closest to Southwest Florida have significant funding coming from various local sources. In Miami, in Palm Beach County, in Broward County and in Hillsboro County, all of those are the closest trauma centers to this area. In fact, those are some good distances for all of us to -- to get to, but the reality is they are the closest trauma centers beyond Lee Memorial Center, all have significant local funding. But as I said earlier, nobody wants to propose and it makes a difficult challenge for-- for each of you, when asked to -- to allocate new revenue of scarce tax money. But I'll share with you a quote that Page 22 September 5, 2002 we saw just last month from the LA Times in Los Angeles as they are grappling and have agreed to try and deal with this. They talked about this, what they call their LA supervisors, their county commissioners, that this is the last chance to save the area's emergency services network. And lawmakers are hoping that the pain of being identified with a tax hike, pales in comparison with the problem of slashing the part of the health care system that is used by all the voters. And that's truly what occurs here. This is not an indigent issue. This is an issue for all of us because any of us could sadly, within an instant, be in need of a trauma center of the quality and capabilities that we have been building for the last decade in Lee County. Absent sufficient funding, I believe that Lee Memorial will sadly follow suit of other unsupported trauma centers, and will either lose its state designation, due to insufficient medical coverage, or it will lose due to lack of financial support. If that happens, lives will needlessly be lost. It is our hope that Collier County will be willing to provide economic support for this region's trauma center. In the event that your county and conununity decide to -- to develop and -- your own trauma center, we are committed to working with you to provide the education, support, the training and the resources of our own organization to work closely with you. We have a great relationship with the folks here in Collier that are involved in emergency medical services, with the hospitals, with the clinicians here and we intend to continue to keep that very positive relationship. It's now my pleasure to introduce to you the director of our emergency and -- or our trauma center. Yes? CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Before you continue, I do have two commissioners that have questions that they wish to ask or make comments. I hope they limit the questions to the presentation that's Page 23 September 5, 2002 been made so far. But we will start with Commissioner Henning and then go to Commissioner Fiala. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I will, at the end of it, I will ask, but, Commissioner Coletta, are we going to limit speakers to their time? CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I -- I don't know -- how many people are there signed up this week? MS. FILSON: There were five on this item and then you have five on the budget. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yeah. We are going to limit to a maximum of five minutes. Is there any questions, Commissioner? COMMISSIONER HENNING: I will ask at the end of the presentation. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you. Commissioner Fiala? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Just for clarification, just to make sure I heard what you said correctly. You are the only trauma center in this area approved to -- to offer trauma service, right? You're the only one that can service all of these five counties? MR. NATHAN: That's correct. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. So -- so we don't have one here and we can't have one there? MR. NATHAN: You could if you invested and all the medical resources were put together to do that. COMMISSIONER FIALA: But you service all of us? MR. NATHAN: That is correct, yes. Thank you. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Please continue. MR. NATHAN: Yes. Mr. Chairman, I would like to introduce you to Dr. Drew Mikulaschek. We call him Dr. Drew. He is the leader of our trauma center and well-known to your medical folks in this region. Page 24 September 5, 2002 What Dr. Drew hopes to do is to share with you a little bit about what is a trauma center and how does it differ from an emergency room, how does it tie into an emergency services network or a trauma services network, and then to share with you a little bit about the calculations as to how we did this. Now, he is not in his clinical uniform this evening, but he is clearly a clinician and one that we respect tremendously. Thank you. DR. MIKULASCHEK: Commissioners, if I may? I have a handout for you. It might help clarify things. For the record, my name is Drew Mikulaschek. I am the director of trauma at Lee Memorial Hospital. Commissioners, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to discuss this issue with you. What we are really talking about here is a trauma system, and what I would like to do is differentiate between a trauma system and a trauma center. The trauma center is actually the hospital that has the beefed up resources that are necessary to intervene and take care of these patients. But it's truly the system in which it all needs to work cohesively if you're really going to see the -- the main effects. And that -- what a trauma system is, it's an organized approach to the acutely injured patient that provides the personnel, the facilities and the equipment that allows for optimal care on an emergency basis. And it's actually made up of multiple agencies and entities which exist for and are dedicated toward the care of the trauma victim. Quite simply, the benefit is, is this type of system saves lives. Without a trauma system in place, your preventable death rate, and these are the deaths that could have been prevented with timely intervention, can be as high as thirty percent. With that trauma system in place, preventable deaths fall to less than five percent. That is a sixfold decrease in the deaths if you can get those patients to get the right care at the right time and in the right place. Page 25 September 5, 2002 Now, what I have listed here is quite simply not an inclusive list, but a list of the more important players of what a trauma system actually consists of. And rather than going through the tedious exercise of telling you what they all entail, it would probably sound like my rattling off some of those MTSU's that you did, but suffice it to say it's a rather involved and -- and long process, but what I would like to do is give you some of the realities about running a trauma system. First off, in order to see optimal outcomes, and what I mean by optimal outcomes is getting the best possible outcome for a severely injured patient, it takes a trauma center a minimum of ten years to fully mature. It takes that long for the protocols and the guidelines to be developed, not only for EMS, but for the physicians in the hospital, for rehabilitation people, the communications people. It takes that long for the team members to know what their role is and to be able to execute. And what I mean by most severely injured, we're not talking about somebody who gets into a car accident and breaks a leg and maybe has a minor laceration to the liver. Basically any competent general surgeon can take care of that with an orthopedic consultant. I'm talking about the folks that smash into cars going 80 miles an hour, who have a severe head injury, a broken neck, a crushed chest, lacerations to both the liver and the spleen that are actively bleeding, and both lower extremities with open fractures. Those are the folks that a trauma center is really geared toward receiving, treating, intervening and giving them the best possible outcome. The other issue is that you really need to see a minimum of 650 cases per year of these severely injured patients in order to really get everything fine-tuned. Both of these points have been brought out in Page 26 September 5, 2002 the data that's less than two years old in medical literature, so these are actually relatively new findings that we are seeing. Clearly, the number of cases you see, the number of severe cases, the greater number of severe cases, the better you are going to get at it. It's the repetition. It's getting the team to work correctly. It's getting people in the right place at the right time to do what they need to do. The only problem is, is from a population-based standpoint, you have to have a population base of at least 500,000 people to service population. Your catch manaria(sic) has to be a minimum of 500,000 people in order to see that number of severe cases. Now, clearly, implementation of a trauma system, regardless of the number of-- of trauma cases that you do see is going to be an improvement, but it's been clearly shown now, you have to see that minimum in order to -- to optimally function to get the best outcomes for the most severely injured. And -- and that's part of the reason you may have heard in the news some of the arguing that's going over in Broward County. They would like to institute a new trauma system over there with a new trauma center, and the pre -- and the existing trauma centers are fighting it tooth and nail for that simple reason only. This is the literature that they are actually quoting to try to prevent that new trauma center from actually happening. The other con -- considerations you need to consider, particularly -- is that five minutes? MS. FILSON: Yes. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: This is -- this is a intricate part of the presentation. Please continue. DR. MIKULASCHEK: Thank you, sir. The -- the trauma center needs to have medical staff that's willing to participate, and this is -- you don't need just one or two orthopedic surgeons. Page 27 September 5, 2002 You really need a whole staff that's able to provide 24 hour a day, seven day a week, 365 day a year care. And that can be rather problematic, and believe me, I speak from personal experience because we have quite a few of our medical staff that aren't too happy about the fact that we provide the medical care. They do it, but they are not happy about it. With the issues with malpractice that are -- is really escalating lnto a national crisis, this makes the development of a trauma center, and actually sustaining one, all that more problematic. Rather than going through most of this, let me just cut to the chase here and let's look at the specifics. If you look on the fourth page, what you actually have here is a graph of the number of patients that we have admitted to Lee Memorial Hospital since we have been designated as a trauma center by the state. Starting in 1994, you will see two bars there. One is for trauma alerts, one is admissions for trauma. Let me just make the distinction. Admissions is a patient who is admitted for any reason for injury. They could have been a trauma alert. They don't necessarily have to be a trauma alert. It could have been a kid who fell off a bike, broke his leg and has to have some sort of surgery. It didn't come in as a trauma alert, but was admitted as a trauma. The trauma alerts are those patients that come in as designated by EMS who have potentially life-threatening injuries. Those are the folks that EMS determines may potentially die and they need the services of the trauma center, simply because we have the resources to intervene rapidly, stabilize the patient and get them on their way to recovery. The -- the next page are the percentage of the those numbers that were Collier County patients. And you can see, starting in 1995, we Page 28 September 5, 2002 started looking at the admissions, and 5.8 percent of all the admissions to the -- to our hospital were -- came from Collier County as opposed to 2002, and this is based on an academic year, July 1 to June 30, 11.3 percent. But the other thing you will notice is that our total admission rate is also climbing, so what you have is an increasing percentage of an increasingly higher number, so what we are actually seeing are more and more patients coming from Collier County. When you talk about absolute numbers over this seven-year period for admissions, it's an increase of 175 percent that we see coming from Collier County. And when we are talking about trauma alerts, now, we didn't start tracking that until 1998, but when we are talking just from '98 to now, it's an increase of 375 percent of the patients that we are receiving from Collier County. Now, to get down to the brass tax, the next page basically goes -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner Coletta, we've always doubled on the time of-- CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning, I -- unless this Commission feels differently, I don't think we can reach any kind of decision without hearing this full presentation. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. You already set the policy, so then I need to ask you, are you going to allow the taxpayers of Collier County to have the same amount of time -- CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning, this is very rude. I hear you over there with your glasses banging against the table, .trying to distract the speaker. COMMISSIONER HENNING: You set some policies -- CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I can see you are not in favor of this, and unless this commission directs me differently, I would like to continue with this presentation, but I will ask you to be brief as possible. Page 29 September 5, 2002 COMMISSIONER HENNING: If I may respond to that, you set some policies and now you are changing your policies. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning, it's the -- it's the Chair's direction to be able to give people extra time if so needed, and that's what I'm doing at this point in time. If I am so directed by this Commission to do otherwise, I will do that. And with that-- COMMISSIONER HENNING: I would like to state that the original policy that you made of five minutes to each presenter, unless you are -- CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Obviously, you have a descender here that does not believe what you are saying and he doesn't care to hear for you. I -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: That isn't what I said. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I know-- COMMISSIONER CARTER: Would you two please cut the talk and let the man finish his presentation so we can get on with this budget hearing. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Please continue. DR. MIKULASCHEK: Thank you. COMMISSIONER CARTER: You are acting like kids in a school yard fighting over a softball. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yeah, you're right. DR. MIKULASCHEK: Basically, to determine what we felt would be a fair share of Collier County, in terms of monetary support, rather than looking at length-of-stay issues, percentage issues, I actually went back and went down to patient-based data. What these numbers are, these are based on the patients who are noted Collier County residents who were admitted to our hospital for some sort of traumatic reason over the last 30 months, two and a half years. Page 30 September 5, 2002 Just some quick demographics, 76 were blunt trauma, motor vehicle accidents, motorcycle accidents, pedestrians struck; twenty percent is penetrating trauma, gunshot wounds, stab wounds, et cetera. Forty percent of all the patients that we admitted from Collier County are no-pay charity cases. That's about twice what we see from Lee County. Quite simply, the hospital charges for those patients during that time, total, 340 patients, 9.3 million. You apply the 40 percent of the no-pay charity cases, these are folks that didn't pay a dime, that drops down to 3.7 million. We apply the Medicaid rate, which is the Hikra(sic) rate from what I understand, which is about thirty-eight cents on the dollar for hospital charges, that comes down to 1.5, or I'm sorry, 1.4 million, and then annualized per year, that's about $567,000 per year for hospital-based charges. Professional services, these are what the costs average for all professional services across all professions. Average for an injured patient admission, and this is based on data we did for our tax issue up in Lee County, but this was the methodology that was accepted by the county commissioners of Lee County. We come up with an average amount of just under $1800 per patient admission. You annualize that over the number of no-pay charity cases and you come up with a total ofjust under $100,000 per year. You add those two numbers up, $665,000 is about the number I get, and that is based on patient-specific data, hospital charges and so forth. In conclusion, I would like to say that, you know, five, ten years down the road, absolutely we are going to need another trauma center Page 31 September 5, 2002 down here. We are going to be approaching a catch manaria that we will see over a million people. It is very possible, because right now, we have our catch manaria, we are seeing over 650 -- $700,000 dollars -- or 700,000 population, and that's just the permanent population. That doesn't even count when we have the visitors come down, but I think, right now, I don't know if we are going to get to that if we don't get some support. Thank you. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you very much. SENATOR SA UNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I would like to, if I might, introduce, the next speaker is Mr. Ed Morton with the Naples Community Hospital. A good friend and I think obviously everybody knows him and he doesn't need an introduction, but I wanted to bring him up next. MR. MORTON: Hi. I'll be brief. I would like you to think about trauma -- I think many of the lay people and the people who are looking at this question, trauma is an extension of your emergency medical services. And I think Dr. Robert Tober will probably do a much better job amplifying than I could. But I think the taxpayers of Collier County right now, through the budget that was just passed, are paying millions and millions of dollars to support our ambulance. That ambulance system is nothing more than an extension of that trauma system, and it would seem to me that we would be doing ourselves a great disservice to all the residents of Southwest Florida if we didn't view the trauma center and the emergency services system as a singular entity, linked inextricably in that golden hour in saving peoples lives. And those of us that are, I think, reasonably experienced and have looked at the data, also recognize that the indifference to the numbers, the numbers I'm looking at is the majority, and I think it's a Page 32 September 5, 2002 significant majority of the people who undergo trauma care, are not just the indigent, but they are the working men and women, the retirees, they are everybody in this entire community. And the reason why the ambulance is subsidized by the -- to the extent that it is, is because we, as a society, couldn't afford to be billing the people the thousands and thousands of dollars it would take for each ambulance trip. That's why we, as taxpayers, are subsidizing it to the extent of millions of dollars. Trauma is no different. It needs the same kind of help, because the same kind of economic burden cannot be borne by one or two or three different people, so to speak, or a limited number, but really needs to be borne by all of society. It's a societal issue. It's emergency service. It's no different than the sheriff or no different in my mind than -- than emergency services, which we are blessed to have one of the finest in the nation. Lee Memorial is an extraordinary system. I would add that we have been asked to be a trauma center. The State of Florida has sent me a letter as chief executive officer to consider becoming a trauma center. That is something we are studying. We are looking at the data. We are a catch manaria scenario. We do stand alone, as Jim Nathan indicated. We are being asked to look at this for all of Collier County, because literally hundreds of people potentially lose that golden hour even going to Lee County, so I think very much, we all in Southwest Florida need to support this and make sure that any one of us at, any moment in time could need both the emergency services and the likely extension, which is the trauma center. Thank you very much. SENATOR SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, Dr. Tober has a few comments in reference to the importance of this facility. DR. TOBER: Good afternoon, everybody. I'll try to be brief also. I came here in 1978. At that time, we did not have an advanced Page 33 September 5, 2002 life support system. We threw people in the back of a Cadillac ambulance and drove to Naples Community Hospital as fast as we could in hopes that we would get to the hospital before the patient died. We have obviously come a long way since that time and thank goodness we have an emergency medical system today that has saved countless lives. I feel like we are approaching a similar crossroads now that we did in 1978, because we now have a trauma network. We've been exposed to a trauma network and we are watching that trauma network teeter on survival because of the enormous economics that are required to keep a system up and running 24 hours a day, seven days a week. In the past year, we sent hundreds of critical patients directly from the scene of injury to -- in Collier County, to the Lee Memorial Hospital Level II Trauma Center. Additionally, Naples Community Hospital cared for 40 to 60 critical trauma patients when the helicopter could not fly because of weather, or when the paramedics made the enormously difficult decision that the victim could not tolerate the transport time to Lee and had to go to the closest geographic full service facility, which is Naples Community Hospital. Lee Memorial Hospital's trauma team has saved countless lives since its inception, lives that belong to Lee, Hendry, Charlotte, Glades and Collier County. NCH has also saved countless lives of trauma victims, but Lee is set up to do so 24 hours a day. They are able to always accommodate the next trauma patient. They always have an operating room and trauma team standing by for the next patient. We, on the other hand, struggle many times to accommodate the next trauma patient, have to hold them downstairs until we can clear an operating room that may have an Page 34 September 5, 2002 operation going on at that time, and although our hospital and physicians have performed their share of miracles, we are not in any way a trauma center. We do not have the legions of trauma personnel standing by to readily accept the next trauma patient, and we have to admit that we pale in the shadow of Lee Memorial Hospital's trauma capabilities. I have often heard that Collier County Government is not in the health business, however, we are in the disaster business, we are in the police business and we are in the emergency medical services business. How can we not be in the business of looking out for and safeguarding the lives of our own citizens and visitors should serious injury strike? How can we look at our own family members and say that we both care about their well-being and yet not reach into our pocket and fund the system that stands vigilantly watching over the seas and lands of five counties, including our own. Until our own community awakens to the reality that growth has reached a point where our own community will require its own trauma center, we must buttress and assist in any way we can to strengthen and preserve the single most powerful beacon of light providing immediate and advanced trauma care to all of us. I have literally lost track of the hundreds of trauma patients our own system has managed to save over the past 25 years. And I doubt that -- and without question or doubt, the collapse of the Lee Memorial Hospital System would cost dozens if not hundreds of lives in our own community. We cannot sanely mm our back on the stark reality that trauma is the number one killer of humanity under the age of 30 and the number four killer of all ages. Recently, a young man wrote a story in our local newspaper. He saw with his own eyes his own trembling terror as his young son lost Page 35 September 5, 2002 frightening amounts of blood from an accident in his own yard. He did everything he could while EMS hurried to the scene, and by the grace of God arrived at Lee Memorial Trauma System in time to have his life saved. His letter, hopefully, was a strong and listened-to message that one day our own community needs to lay the necessary ground work to build its own trauma system. And until our own system is up and running, which may be five or ten years, we have every obligation, every intellectual, moral and ethical reason to lend sustenance and support to a system 40 miles to our north that holds the lives of our own community as dear as it does its own. Thank you. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you. SENATOR SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, I think that that concludes the presentation. I don't know if there is anybody else in the audience that wanted to testify on this. There's no speaker cards, so ! will wrap up and just simply say that as was pointed out, Florida has lost about 15 trauma centers in the last five or ten years. We can't afford to lose this trauma center. I would urge you -- we have calculated two or three different ways the amount of money that we feel is the fair share contribution for -- from Collier County for this coming fiscal year. That's approximately $700,000. I always round up. And I would ask the County Commission to direct staff to place that in the budget for your final budget hearing on September 18th. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Senator Saunders, you stated this was a legislation policy, or is this a mandate for a regional center, one county benefits the residents of the -- SENATOR SAUNDERS: Mr. CommissiOner, I would say that in effect it's a mandate, because there is a statute that says, you shall Page 36 September 5, 2002 be liable for this amount for care from residents of your community that are served in another community, so it's an unfunded mandate, but it is a mandate. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I -- I know the difference between policy and statutes and I just wanted to clarify that. The -- in the piece of legislation that you gave me, it stated that it had to be a resident or a resident alien documented. And the funds that you are asking, or the Lee County Health Center is asking, did -- we documented all that? SENATOR SAUNDERS: The -- the hospital system has documentation to that effect. I can't say that each one of these Collier County transports has been documented to be a county resident or is not an illegal or legal alien residing in Collier County. There is going to be some of that in that mix. And again, that's why we tried to come up with a formula that was reflective of what we are treating from Collier County and what that system is losing. And, you know, down the road, perhaps there needs to be a little bit better tracking of the actual residents and that sort of thing. But I will tell you that when someone is brought to the Lee Memorial Trauma Center, no one is asking them where they reside or whether they have insurance or whether they are in this country legally or illegally. They are providing a service. And so there is a cost to that, and, you know, we can split hairs and say, well, this guy really, really wasn't a Collier County resident. He was, you know, a resident of some other community, but-- COMMISSIONER HENNING: You say what a detriment it would be for the county to lose, or for Lee County Trauma Center to go away, but you sat in this seat at one time and you had to be Page 37 September 5, 2002 responsible for the taxpayers money, so I think it's only fair for us to be responsible, legally responsible for our fair share. And I won't say another word, except for just one comment, is if we fund this, it's my opinion that it would be a long time, if we get a trauma center in Collier County, when we can only pay like, $700,000 versus millions of dollars here in Collier County, so I just want to put that out there as my opinion. Thank you. SENATOR SAUNDERS: And I will tell you, I have sat in that seat before and those decisions are difficult, but I will tell you as a commissioner and a member of the senate, I'm always looking for a good bargain. And I will tell you the Lee Memorial Trauma Center funded by Collier County at this level is a good bargain and I think it's the right thing to do. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Carter, if I may? Okay. Before we go to you, I'm -- COMMISSIONER CARTER: Go ahead. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Sir? COMMISSIONER CARTER: You want me to go ahead? CHAIRMAN COLETTA: If I may. COMMISSIONER CARTER: One question is answered. The second one is, if the half penny passes in Lee County, does this solve the trauma center's financial problems? MR. NATHAN: I guess that's for me to try and answer. The reality is is that that half penny is for the entire emergency services network in Lee County and can only be used for Lee County residents. Collier benefits because it helps keep the doors open. But for your community, you need to be most, from our prospective, most concerned about the trauma center because very few non-trauma emergencies come to Lee County. Page 38 September 5, 2002 So our commitment is that, you know, we are certainly expecting that if the citizens of Lee support that tax, that not only will the trauma center stay open, that we will have an extremely viable emergency medical network throughout all of Lee County. COMMISSIONER CARTER: And if it fails? DR. NATHAN: If it fails, there will still be emergency departments, but the question is how long does the -- the designated trauma center remain in the community. And I -- I personally, firmly believe that absent sufficient funding, there will not be a designated trauma center in Lee County. MR. NATHAN: Thankyou. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Thank you. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: If I -- I'm going to go next, if I may. Now, this is an issue that has unfolded during the summer and I've been with it for many months following it from the beginning to this point here, and I appreciate the Commission's indulgence as we go through it. I know you are all pretty well versed in it and a lot of this is being done for our viewing public out there, so they know what we are proposing to do with taxpayer dollars, possibly do one way or the other. There are a couple of things though, and I hope this doesn't throw a wrench into the works, but there are some conditions that I would like to see applied if we ever get to the point that we agree on the amount and what we are going to do, that we hold the funds in suspended animation, that we agree until that point in time that the health committee on the 19th can take and view what's actually taking place down there at Lee Memorial Trauma Center, to be able to go there and physically be able to stand on the premise and be able to see what's taking place and then report back to the Commission, and then we can at that point in time go forward. Page 39 September 5, 2002 Also, too, I would like to see it set up so that instead of a set amotmt, and I don't say I agree with the numbers that you've got and how you arrived at them, and I want to talk to Leo about it. He may have some other views on this. I would like to see it set up in a voucher-type payment system so that we are paying exactly for what we are responsible for up to a given amount that we agree on. When we reach that point, that's the end of what we do. But we can evaluate each bill to make sure it does apply to a Collier County resident, that all the conditions apply that are supposed to comply before we would pay it. And also, the -- the program, I should have got this to you earlier, I know, but the program could be discontinued if the Lee County Commission doesn't step up to the plate and accept their responsibility. I don't -- I don't know if their referendum is going to pass. I'm -- I'm hearing -- I'm hearing some very negative things about it, but if it doesn't pass, if the Lee County Commission will not step up to the plate and accept their percentage of the responsibility, then Collier County is off the hook to be able to go forward again. And I also, too, I would like to see that if we do agree on this and we agree on the amount, that this is not additional funds, that the funds have to be found within the existing budget, and if we can't agree to that, then -- and have to raise the millage rate above neutral, I think we have failed here today as a commission. With that, I would like to go to Leo just to ask him some questions on the figures that we went over before and the numbers that you have. Leo.9 MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, for the record, Leo Ochs, Deputy County Manager. We had -- we had gone over some figures earlier based on some preliminary discussions with Dr. Drew and other members of staff at Lee Memorial. Page 40 September 5, 2002 I -- I think the big variable here between the two sets of numbers is trying to estimate the average length of stay for a trauma alert patient once they are received and admitted into the trauma care center. The initial estimate we were given was a five-day average length of stay and we -- we did our preliminary calculations and our estimates based on that -- on that number. In further discussions today with Dr. Drew, and frankly, I don't have any basis to disagree with him, that estimate was very conservative when you think about the medical condition of trauma alert patients that arrive up there. A five-day average length of stay seemed to be fairly short, so that's, I think, the major difference between our original estimate of what the county's liability may be versus the -- the numbers I think here that have been presented by Dr. Drew. SENATOR SAUNDERS: To amplify that, the five days is an average of all the patients that are treated at that trauma center. The trauma alerts from Collier County tend to be more serious because the less serious trauma is going to NCH. The more serious cases are going to go to Lee Memorial, so you have a longer stay on average because you have more serious injuries from the Collier County residents that are sent up there. I don't know what that number is and we'll try to get that. It's probably closer to ten days than it is to five. Mr. Morton said he knows that particular number, so -- MR. MORTON: I know that from NCH. Excuse me. Ed Morton again. The average length of stay is about nine and a half days in the acute side and about 17 days in the rehab side, so an average of about 27 days. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: If we may, I would like to go to Commissioner Coyle. Don't go away, Mr. -- Senator Saunders. Page 41 September 5, 2002 COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I would like to amplify on a couple of the suggestions Chairman Coletta has made. I -- I think it's only fair that we pay our fair share. I -- I think that's what we should be doing. I think that -- that in order to -- to be assured that we're -- we are spending the taxpayers money wisely, we do need some -- some additional information. I -- I would have no objection to taking money out of the existing budget, put it in reserves for this particular purpose. I -- I would like to pay that money out very much in the same way that a third-party payer might pay it out. And I -- I would hope that we could -- could view these on a case by case basis. I would like to understand a little better whether a Lee County resident who is in Collier County for recreation or for other purposes who is injured and transported from Collier County is considered a Collier County resident or considered a Lee County resident. Those kinds of specifics I think would-- I would like to -- to have. And I also would like to understand as we go through this process, and let me -- let me say that I understand this is going to take time. I don't -- I understand this is not something we are going to be doing right off the bat, okay? I want to be reasonable about this. But -- but I want to understand who these people are, why they don't have coverage, why they aren't -- and if they do have coverage, why is the coverage not paying for these services. And I want to have that information so I can understand more clearly that the status of our health care system here in Collier County and the seriousness of-- of the problem with under coverage or no coverage at all for our citizens in Collier County. And I think it's this case by case management or review which will give us the information to -- to make not only this decision but Page 42 September 5, 2002 ongoing decisions with respect to providing adequate emergency care for our -- our residents. SENATOR SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, if I might, I would like to go through the comment list of conditions that have elaborated. Certainly in terms of the September 19th meeting of the health care committee at the Lee Memorial Trauma Center, there is certainly no problem in holding in advance the actual quote of dollars until after that report from that committee. That's -- I'm quite confident that will be a very positive issue. The -- the issue of the case by case basis, and there is no problem in placing the $700,000 amount in an account and having that as an account that could be drawn on based on a case by case basis, but the problem that you are going to run into is that there is a standby cost to have this facility open. I would like to give the example, and Mr. Coyle -- Commissioner Coyle and I were talking about this this morning. If Commissioner Coyle is involved in an automobile accident and is sent to Lee Memorial Trauma Center, there is a certain amount of cost associated with the fact that he is being treated there and that number can be arrived at, but Commissioner Coyle is going to want to know that that center is open 24 hours a day, seven days a week, all year long. And there is a cost to that, so as we go though that case by case basis, then we are going to need to be able to also say, well, this is what it really cost. That's why I had said this facility is losing ten million dollars a year and seven percent makes sense, but we can attempt to provide that information. The other issue about the -- Lee County coming to the table. There's really no problem with -- with putting the pressure on the Lee County voters as well as the Lee County Commission to do the right Page 43 September 5, 2002 thing in terms of funding this facility also, so I don't think there is any problem with that. But I will tell you that, again, there is a statute that -- that is out there that does provide for that responsibility, so they are not waiving their ability to use that. That's just out there. I would -- I would ask you to do the following, then. You've got your final budget hearing on the 18th. I would ask you to vote to put $700,000 aside for Lee Memorial Trauma Center for the coming fiscal year, that we provide you the information to justify the payments out to Lee Memorial for that, understanding that there are patient charges and standby charges that would have to be presented to you. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Just as a clarification, Senator Saunders, I would expect that -- that the cost would include an appropriate overhead allocation, and I understand that that is essential and I have no concern or objection to that at all. But I -- I would like to -- to deal with this from the standpoint of costs plus an allocated overhead rather than charges, because there is a significant difference between the charges and overhead. SENATOR SAUNDERS: What Dr. Drew did is he gave you the amount of charges and then he reduced that to 38 percent of those charges to reflect the Medicaid reimbursement rates, which are extremely low, but even using those Medicaid rates -- COMMISSIONER COYLE: And I think that's fair. I think that's fair. Good. MR. MUDD: Commissioner, if I can-- if I can interject just one thing real quick, and I need to know a little more about this Florida statute, because this is the first time -- again, I'm a brand new county manager. I haven't heard a lot about this and don't disagree one bit with if it's our cost or not. Page 44 September 5, 2002 But the Florida Statute, I think, says something that -- that the other county that treats the patient can bill the county from where the resident comes from. I'm -- and, Senator, I would ask you if you can tell the Board if-- if there is a mechanism whereby they can be billed based on that statute. And if that's the case, and I don't know if the statute is so cumbersome and so hard to do that they can't bill because there are so many -- so many criteria that they have to meet before they send the bill to the -- to the host county. I don't know if that's there or not, but there might be a mechanism that already exists in order to get the bills to the county. And I think the statute also has a million dollar cap on the county, and so I guess one of the things the Board needs to consider is it's $700,000. That's less than the cap of a million. We don't know what the stays are, but if the stays were 27 days based on Leo's calculation, we would owe a whole heck of a lot more based on the 199 patients that went for trauma alert. And so there -- there is something in between, and what I would also say if it's -- if it's below that amount and that's what the Board wants to do and you decide you want to come up with a mechanism, let's get in some kind of an agreement with Lee Memorial before we go through this process, because you've got a statute that says one thing and you are doing something that's a little bit less than the statute now, and I think that's just prudent. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: But we can put the money into a reserve with all other conditions to be met at another point. MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And with that, we'll go to Commissioner Fiala and then Commissioner Henning. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Just one fast, you were talking about host county. I was just wondering, being that we have a Page 45 September 5, 2002 lot of tourists here in town who come from other states, what county - - that tourist is visiting and staying in Collier County, whether it be a week or three months, what county are they considered a resident of in your calculations? SENATOR SAUNDERS: That would, clearly, it would we be the county where they come from. It wouldn't be Collier County, but I will tell you that -- that the issue of a trauma center in your community is so important. If you will think back to what happened in Nevada just a few months ago, there was a medical malpractice crisis in Nevada. The legislature was not addressing that issue. The trauma physicians in Las Vegas shut down the trauma center and said, we are not going to do this anymore because we are losing money and we're getting no support from the legislature in Nevada. Three days later, there was a special session of the legislature. Thirty days later, there was a malpractice reform. The reason for that is because the tourist industry is so important to Las Vegas. A trauma center was so important to that industry that they couldn't afford to -- to have that trauma center closed, as well as the other reasons, so when you start talking about the tourists, you know, it raises a thought -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I think they're a very important part because we have a lot tourists that get in an accident -- SENATOR SAUNDERS: That's correct. COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- but let me say, and I'll finish, because I don't want to hold this thing up at all, but I have a family member who was actually -- in a trauma case. He was in a fiery accident, and as they were transporting him by EMS helicopter to the trauma center, they were saying to each other, this one's not going to make it. They got him there by holding to threads of his life. Page 46 September 5, 2002 It took them a few days to bring him around to the right side, but I'm able to hug him today, so thanks to the Lee County Trauma Center. SENATOR SAUNDERS: Well, I want to thank the Commission because I will tell you that -- that this is a life and death issue. You have had an personal experience with it. I personally don't want this facility to close, and if there is anything that you need to go away with tonight, it's that Collier County should be doing the right thing. We will provide the documentation. We're again asking that you to set aside those dollars and we'll provide the justification. Thank you. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Let's do this. I want to just make sure, there is no speakers on this particular subject. MS. FILSON: No, sir. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Commissioner Henning. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Our County Manager was absolutely correct, in the legislation, you know, hundreds of elected people in Tallahassee spent hours -- hours on the subject. And I think the best thing that we can do is direct staff to bring back some recommendations along with some of Commissioner Coletta's recommendations, set aside some money and let's find out what is the best thing for the interest of the residents. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Would this require a motion? COMMISSIONER HENNING: It would at the end. MR. WEIGEL: Ultimately, you have to make the decision to affect the budget in the appropriate way so you've got it there, if and when criteria or agreement or road application of the statute comes into play, based on data at a later time. So as part of your budget making decision, you'll have to make a decision tonight, and Mike Smykowski obviously can lead you more specifically than I can. Page 47 September 5, 2002 MR. SMYKOWSKI: I think you just need to provide direction to staff if you're looking up to $700,000, we would identify where that money would come from before the next public hearing and bring forth those recommendations on September 18th. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. And I got -- Commissioner Henning originally said it, a nod of a head here. I'm nodding my head. We've got five commissioners all agreeing to that. MR. SMYKOWSKI: Okay. We'll consider that the Board action-- Board direction and bring forth those recommendations on the 18th. SENATOR sAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, I appreciate your courtesy this evening. Thank you. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Senator Saunders, we appreciate your time. Item #2D PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS MR. SMYKOWSKI: That brings us to public comments and questions. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Before we go to that, we are going to take a short break and then we'll be right back. (Whereupon, a break was taken and the meeting continued as follows:) CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Please take your seats. Michael? MR. SMYKOWSKI: Thank you. We're going to move to the public comment section. Ms. Filson has about six speakers. I have -- also have two very short letters I'll read into the record. Page 48 September 5, 2002 Perhaps Ms. Filson can call some speakers and while they are making their way to the microphone, I'll read them into the record quickly and we can proceed with the public speakers. MS. FILSON: Yes. Mr. Chairman, we have seven speakers. The first one is Janet Vasey. She will be followed by Jim Gibson. MR. SMYKOWSKI: In the meantime, I will read these. One is from Avila at Grey Oaks homeowners: "The fifty-three residents, who are members of the Avila Homeowners Association, wish to file our strong objections to the proposed increase in our property Market Value and to the proposed budget increases in the various tax rates that comprise our total Property Taxes for 2002. We also strongly object to the MSTU assessment for Livingston Road. Since many of us are not full time residents of Naples we will not be able to attend the public hearing on September 5th however we wish our objection to be recorded at this and subsequent hearing on the proposed tax increases. Please confirm in writing that the voice of our fifty-three homeowners will be represented in these public hearings. Very Truly, Elliott Fischer" I will be responding in writing to confirm that this was added to the record as -- as per their request. There is another letter from Gerald and Carol Gallagher from Chinaberry Way, Naples, Florida. It was initially addressed to Abe Skinner. "I am writing this letter to oppose the increase in property taxes mainly due to the Municipal Services Taxing Units Livingston Road Beautification Project. We were never advised of the creation of the Beautification Advisory Committee; therefore, we were not asked to participate on its deliberation or advised as to a financial commitment for us, the homeowners. Page 49 September 5, 2002 I request that the commission vote to eliminate this unfair tax increase and beautification project. Sincerely, Mr. and Mrs. Gerald Gallagher" And I'll provide those to the reporter for the record. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Duly done. MS. FILSON: Okay. The first speaker is going to be Mr. James Gibson and he will be followed by Janet Vasey. MR. GIBSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Jim Gibson. I'm the chairman of the county Productivity Committee. And what we -- CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Can I ask you to move the mike down just a little, please? MR. GIBSON: Is that better? CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yeah. That will probably work fine. MR. GIBSON: Okay. At the obvious request of the commissioners, the Productivity Committee was asked to participate in the budget review process, and through a series of briefings, I think we've all let you know where -- where our recommendations have been, as well as Mr. Mudd and Mr. Smykowski throughout the process. As we wind down toward the end, we are at a point where I want to bring to your attention our final recommendations, which again, I think we have shared with you, but just to reiterate. We believe subsequent to the County Manager's recommendations, there are probably, in our suggestion, about four millions dollars in additional reductions that warrant consideration on the part of the commissioners. That would be at a million nine in total savings that we can identify in the county-wide General Funds and another 2.2 million in the Unincorporated General Fund, and Janet will -- can talk you in a minute about some specifics there. Page 50 September 5, 2002 The general areas that we have -- we have identified some savings that we think can be made are in the EMS Director of Maintenance area. That's about $85,000. Domestic Animal Services, approximately $220,000; Information Technology, proposed in terms of personnel and in terms of system development projects, slightly over a half million dollars and a phase-in of the additional -- there are some, approximately 80 additional positions in this budget, and I think as you are all aware they are funded effective October 1 st. I would think it's neither feasible since we are standing here the first week of September to assume that all these new slots will be ready to come on line October the 1 st, or go -- or are funded at one hundred percent this fiscal year. Those funds aren't going to be needed. While, in fact, they will obviously revert to reserves or a fund balance, the fact is, you know, the money is being provided up front when it's not going to be used and that's an issue of some 1.1 million by our calculation. That would merit some consideration. And the other issues are with the Unincorporated General Fund, are the subsidy for the County Jam at this time at $200,000, and an analysis of the build-up in the carry-forward, which is some two million dollars by our estimate. That is similar to some other findings we had that we brought to your attention with regard to the reserVe build-up. In some other areas of the budget, the Solid Waste Landfill Closure Fund and the Sheriff's Self-insurance Fund. I think those are areas that need not specifically be dealt with at this budget deliberation, but they are things that should be looked at subsequently. And with that, we will entertain questions, but first I would like to have Janet go forward with any specific details. Page 51 September 5, 2002 CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Fine. And what I would like to do before Janet starts so we don't have to interrupt her and ask the question at that time, I -- I -- Janet is going to take a few minutes. She may run past the five. I would like to waive the five-minute time requirement as this is a -- a committee that is put together by the county that has saved us millions of dollars. And I -- I don't want to rush the process with their report. If I may continue, go ahead, Janet. MS. VASEY: For the record, Janet Vasey, Vice Chair of the Collier County Productivity Committee. I have handed out a point paper, a five-page, six-page point paper to the administrators and other people and you all have copies, too. I would like to go over these with you to show you why we are recommending these reductions. And then, you know, we can answer any questions, too, that you have. On the first one, it's -- there -- there's a one position for a Director of Maintenance in the EMS for the EMS Helicopter Operations, and it's 70 -- it's $85,000 for pay and benefits, and we do not believe that this position is required. There has been a problem in the last year because there has only been one aircraft maintenance technician handling five aircraft, four for the Sheriff and one for EMS, and that's -- that has created problems. However, the Sheriff has another position. He's already hired someone for this additional aircraft technician position. The person is -- has gone through the polygraph, is going through the background checks and will be on board within the month. So this will increase by one hundred percent the amount of time that will be available to take care of aircraft maintenance. We don't for one minute believe that you need one aircraft maintenance technician for one aircraft. That is not -- that is not Page 52 September 5, 2002 needed. I used to handle the Army Flying Hour program in a former life, and that is just not necessary. So that's -- that's the rationale and what's happening in that. By using the Sheriff's technicians aircraft maintenance people, we are optimally using those personnel, because I don't think that he would absolutely use two people for four aircraft, so by the sharing, we are getting optimal use. We pay for the hours that -- we pay EMS for the hours that are used of the Sheriff's aircraft maintenance people, and this is a very, very good method, we think. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yeah. With the permission of my fellow commissioners, I would like to be able to see if we could have these things answered one thing at a time rather than try to answer them in mass at the end. Is that okay with the Commission? THE COMMISSION: Yes. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Mr. Mudd, who can respond to that first part? MR. MUDD: Well, we have Ken Pineau that's here right now. I guess he will do that. MR. PINEAU: Good evening, Commissioners. My name is Ken Pineau. I'm the Interim Emergency Services Administrator. I -- I can readily agree with the Productivity Committee recommending tax savings, but I don't think this is the appropriate vehicle to do it. It is true that we have been without a helicopter mechanic from the Sheriff's Office at least since last January. Mrs. Vasey acknowledges that it's been at least that long. And we are expecting this person to -- to work 24 hours a day -- or be on call 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. And as a matter of fact, since the first of this year we have had to down the aircraft because of maintenance reasons for a total of 113 hours, where we could have flown but we were down for Page 53 September 5, 2002 maintenance. These are some of the issues. We heard terms tonight, preventable death rate and golden hour. I'm not sure during that 113 hours how many times that we could have responded to a -- to a trauma alert to get folks to the Lee Memorial Hospital, but I'm sure that there's some statistics available somewhere. I don't have those readily available right now. I wasn't aware that the Sheriff-- I know they were planning on hiring a -- an additional mechanic. We haven't heard that they have actually hired one, but I think that the industry standards actually for five aircraft, the standard is three for every five aircraft for a 24-hour a day operation. In fact, this may by short-lived this year. Maybe we can get by with a -- one A and P mechanic and one inspection authorized mechanic. Next year, though, I think, or early in 2004, I think the Sheriffs plan is to move into a special operations building across the airport from the existing EMS facility. And that's going to be .very difficult for them to provide maintenance support to our helicopter at that location, hauling tools and back and forth, to be up and running, you know, at a moment's notice, so -- CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And I heard you correctly, you say we probably -- we might be able to get by this year with what we have? MR. PINEAU: Well, it would be below the industry standard, but as much -- if we do get the additional mechanic, then certainly it's going to be much better than what we have experienced over the last nine months. The mechanic, Mike Marsh, the Sheriffs mechanic has been doing an outstanding job. In fact, the support that we have with the Sheriffs Office, they -- they try to, you know, help us out as much as possible. Page 54 September 5, 2002 But there has been, you know, some problems. Not only for the EMS helicopter, but the four aircraft, they're -- they're -- recently, been cutting back on service to their fleet as well. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And so the situation will not improve unless we personally hire another mechanic? MR. PINEAU: Well, eventually, we are going to have to, I think. We have the chief pilot, Anton Burtscher with us. He is probably more intimately involved with the day-to-day operations than I am. If we can get, you know, an additional mechanic, he doesn't have to sign off on inspections. They are not going to hire two inspection-authorized mechanics. They can get by with one A and P and one -- and one IA, but unless they do that -- if this gets -- we're going to continue with just one mechanic, we're going to have problems. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. That's -- that's what I was looking for. The problems might result in the fact that we can't go out on call? MR. PINEAU: That's correct, yes. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And the problems might result in mechanical failure and could jeopardize people's lives? MR. PINEAU: It's possible. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Possibly? More likely so, if there isn't a mechanic; is that correct? MR. PINEAU: Correct. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Am I putting words in your mouth? MR. PINEAU: No. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I don't mean to. MR. MUDD: Commissioner, let me -- let me -- Jim Mudd for the record again, County Manager. The -- from what I understand, the certification of the work is -- is a big issue. And if-- if somebody Page 55 September 5, 2002 works on the aircraft and replaces a part, it has to be certified by the head mechanic by the Sheriff and that's Mr. -- Mr. Marsh right now. And so Mr. Marsh is on a short string all the time, but if Mr. Marsh is gone, even though they have another mechanic in order to do work, if that mechanic does something to the bird and Mr. Marsh isn't around to certify or Mr. Marsh is on leave or Mr. Marsh is sick, or Mr. Marsh has had a beer tonight with his dinner, Mr. Marsh isn't certifying anything, and your bird's not flying. And -- and that's kind of the issue that we've had to wrestle with for a very, very long time. And -- and I asked the Sheriff if he would go out and get another certified mechanic, per se, to certify the 13 5 because -- and that's -- and that's the criteria we have to meet because we put people on board that aircraft, and we ask them to pay us for the ride. And -- and I don't want to talk about the Army, but the last time I looked at the Army, they don't charge people to take a ride. But that's the issue that they've got in -- in -- in that particular process. It's -- it's basically the certification issue. What has compounded it this last year since one January is the fact that they have been one mechanic short, and the reason they have been one mechanic short is that person on the outside makes a lot of money. And if-- and if we don't pay them well enough in the Sheriff's side of the house during his budget, you can't keep them, because as soon as he gets the training that he needs to move up, he finds a job on the outside and you have that vacancy again. And -- and I will tell you I have tried to work it with the Sheriff. In the last correspondence I had with -- with Ms. Kensig was the fact that their moving, it would probably be prudent on the county's part to hire their mechanic. And that was -- that was my last communication I had. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Coyle? Page 56 September 5, 2002 COMMISSIONER COYLE: Help me a little bit with the organizational structure of mechanics with the Sheriffs Department and with Collier County. What does that look like? What is the Sheriff's organizational structure for-- for aircraft maintenance look like? MR. PINEAU: Well, the Sheriff has two -- two fixed-wing aircrafts and two helicopters. We have one -- one helicopter. At the present time, they are authorized one inspection-authorized mechanic, which is at a higher level and one A and P mechanic that can provide the, you know, the normal day-to-day maintenance work. We have been short the one A and P mechanic since at least last January -- MR. BURTSCHER: One and a half. MR. PINEAU: One and a half years. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Let -- let me back up. Let's take the Sheriffs operation, just the Sheriffs operation. Now, tell me how many maintenance technicians they have there and whether or not they have a director of maintenance. MR. P1NEAU: Well, the -- the -- MR. BURTSCHER: Two. MR. PINEAU: They are authorized two. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Authorized two maintenance technicians? MR. PINEAU: They have one, who is the director of maintenance. COMMISSIONER COYLE: And that person is also the -- okay. But they are authorized another one and that one is vacant? MR. PINEAU: That's correct. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Now, tell me about the Collier County organizational structure. Page 57 September 5, 2002 MR. PINEAU: We have no mechanics authorized. We have been relying on the Sheriff's Office to provide maintenance for our helicopters. COMMISSIONER COYLE: So -- so-- so there has been one person who is a maintenance technician who is also functioning as a director of maintenance who has been taking care of all of the aircrafts? MR. PINEAU: Five aircrafts. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Five aircrafts. That one person? MR. PINEAU: One person. MR. SMYKOWSKI: And he is on call 24/7, 365. COMMISSIONER COYLE: So what's the problem? COMMISSIONER CARTER: Well, if he is in Wyoming on vacation -- COMMISSIONER COYLE: So am I. Okay. And -- but -- but the Sheriff is going to fill that vacant spot, right? MR. PINEAU: It's anticipated that he will, but as far as I know MR. BURTSCHER: Anton Burtscher. I'm the chief pilot. I think there are two things we've got to look at. First of all, with the policy the Sheriffs Department has, everybody who is on call does not have to respond on the call. So if we call them somewhere, whatever time, he gets paged, if he thinks he doesn't want to come in, he doesn't have to. We are responsible to get that aircraft up as quickly as possible. We cannot have anybody who doesn't want to respond. As much as he can, he will, or whoever is in charge of that daytime will come in, but it has happened more and more that this guy's overloaded, overworked. The second mechanic they have, if they are going to hire somebody again who is not qualified to work on our aircraft, we are Page 58 September 5, 2002 having two completely different -- the Sheriff's Department operates 30-year old helicopters. We have a two-year old highly sophisticated aircraft. We need personnel who are able to maintain this aircraft. The Sheriffs Department doesn't need that. They have a completely different requirement on the second person, so that second person can be a non-A and P working under Mike Marsh, but we can't use that person on our aircraft, so for us it's really necessary to have qualified people. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. So right now, we don't have anybody? MR. BURTSCHER: We don't have anybody. MR. PINEAU: We were only authorized one up until now. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Really? So you don't have a vacant slot? MR. PINEAU: No. MR. SMYKOWSKI: No, sir. MR. BURTSCHER: Yeah, we have one in the budget. MR. SMYKOWSKI: It is proposed in the budget for FY 03. COMMISSIONER COYLE: And that's the one we are talking about? MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. This is an enhanced position. COMMISSIONER COYLE: And this person is going to -- going to serve as a director of maintenance as well as an A and P mechanic; correct? MR. BURTSCHER: That's correct, yes. Industry standards -- industry standards in the EMS operations that you have two mechanics to guarantee a 7/24, because even -- even if we have our director of maintenance or that A and P, we still need the help from the Sheriffs Department to keep it up 24/7, because also this person is going to need time off, but at least it's going to relieve the current director of maintenance of all the workload he has right now. Page 59 September 5, 2002 MR. SMYKOWSKI: I think there is also some confusion with the title. The director of maintenance is the official title but you could just as easily call it chief mechanic. He is the person who will actually physically work on doing the repairs to the helicopter and the maintenance. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I'm getting very close to understanding this and so I will finish in just a second. So if you hire this person, the Sheriff in Collier County will have two positions, two A and E(sic) mechanics who are both functioning as a director of maintenance for their respective agencies. MR. BURTSCHER: Yeah, that's kind of correct. Yes. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. MR. BURTSCHER: They will have three positions total. COMMISSIONER COYLE: They've got one that's vacant, yeah. MR. BURTSCHER: The Sheriff has two and we have one. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. And they will fill the vacant position? MR. BURTSCHER: Well, they have been trying to do that for quite some time, yes. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. And-- and we can call on either of their two maintenance technicians if we have a problem? MR. BURTSCHER: That would be an agreement. It's an unwritten agreement that we would help each other, but there is no agreement. That's another problem we have. MR. SMYKOWSKI: The Sheriffs mechanic, there is a chief mechanic and let's call it an apprentice for ease of discussion. The apprentice cannot work on the EMS helicopters. Only the chief-- only the chief mechanic is authorized to do that, to sign off on that. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. So you've -- so you've essentially got two people that we are calling directors of Page 60 September 5, 2002 maintenance, one in the Sheriff's Department and one in our organization, and you can call upon either of those if you need them; right? MR. BURTSCHER: Yes. COMMISSIONER COYLE: If ours was unavailable, you can call on the other person and -- MR. BURTSCHER: That's the plan, yeah. COMMISSIONER COYLE: And -- and what you need is a formal agreement to do that? MR. PINEAU: Well, we're trying to hire an additional mech -- director of maintenance. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Wait a minute. Now you -- not additional. You're -- you're trying to hire a director of maintenance. MR. PINEAU: We're trying to hire a director of maintenance. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. So you're just talking about one person, right? MR. PINEAU: Right. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. MR. MUDD: But, sir, it's easy to get a memorandum of agreement between the Sheriff and us to share the mechanics as they go back and forth, especially when they move to the other side to work that coordination. Because there might a be time when our bird is flying and it's okay, but they need a maintenance person over there working and then he could work on that side of the house and keep track of the hours so that we can make sure that the money flows back and forth. It's all General Fund money. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Yeah. All right. Can -- can you do that? Can you work out that memorandum of understanding? MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. Page 61 September 5, 2002 COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Good. All right. Thank yOU. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Mr. Chairman, I hope we can move on on this. I see that we need two chief mechanics. We have one. We don't have flexibility. We got a health safety and public -- health safety and welfare issue here. I'm going to nod my head and say let's put this in the budget. Let's do it. I respect everybody's analysis, but to me, it's getting to be a no-brainer. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Well, there is no other lights lit up so I think we can go ahead and either nod our heads or we can continue discussion if any of the commissioners feels it's necessary. I'm nodding my head. COMMISSIONER COYLE: I understand it. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. I think we are nodding our head in approval of the item for the budget, so there isn't a misunderstanding later and we find out that we don't have the proper work force to be able to maintain this helicopter, is that correct, Commissioner Carter? COMMISSIONER CARTER: That's the way I read it. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Next item. MR. BURTSCHER: Thank you. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you. MS. VASEY: The next item on our list is the Domestic Animal Services, and here there are two positions. They came in asking for about $400,000. We agreed with about $200,000. What's left is two kennel technicians and two animal control officers. We validated one of the animal control officers from the workload projections that they had, and we don't think that they need four people. I would also tell you that their program has increased Page 62 September 5, 2002 dramatically over the last two years. They have doubled their personnel. We think that this is a good year for them to stabilize. They hired three animal control officers this fiscal year, two or three, I guess, two kennel technicians this year. And we think that these -- if there are any additional increases, they should be considered in FY 04. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: John? MR. DUNNUCK: Good evening, Commissioners. For the record, my name is John Dunnuck, Public Services Administrator. This program has been by design. Five years ago, the Board of County Commissioners took a -- a -- took an idea to expand Domestic Animal Services based upon the levels of service that we currently had at that period of time. We expanded the facility, which was opened approximately a year and a half ago. We've been continuing to implement and bring up to what we consider, national standards as far as the investigators go and the kennel technicians. If you refer to the memo -- memorandum dated of September 4th from Mr. Smykowski's office, you will see that earlier this year we conducted an audit of our Domestic Animal Services facility, and what we found was that based on population and based on number of complaints, we were deficient in those two areas. Recognizing that we didn't want to ask for the full amount, knowing that this was a tight fiscal year and looking at my division as a whole, we asked for those additional positions, which still are not to the national standards. The final point I would like to make is the idea of geography. This community is unique in the fact that the geographical areas that we cover in Collier County are -- are fairly significant, and they are much greater than most of those national averages, so when we took Page 63 September 5, 2002 into consideration, we asked for positions that were less than the national standards and the state standards, plus we have higher geographical areas. We felt that was fair. My final point being that from a MSTB prospective, in my division level, I had actually worked with my other departments to make sure that we brought in a millage neutral budget from my division prospective because we recognized how important these positions were. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: If I -- Commissioner Henning, you're first. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I would agree with the Productivity Committee. Until -- I think what I need to do is take a look at the calls per staffing and some more information on the kennel techs and we probably could get that before the final budget hearing; correct? MR. DUNNUCK: Yes. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: A couple of questions, if I may. I -- being the fact that I somehow inherited the dangerous dog attacks and seem to have most of the complaints coming through my desk for one reason or another, I realize our deficiencies that we have within this particular department, as far as the response time or whatever, is -- I know they are stretched to the limit. Tell me this: Of the three people that you got, is one of them going to be dedicated towards the rural area of the estates in Immokalee or was this for other areas? I -- I know that the situation there is critical. MR. DUNNUCK: What we typically do, and Jody can answer the question more specifically, we have a drawn out map of territory based upon complaints. We actually chart the number of complaints Page 64 September 5, 2002 to the best ability we can, and we try to assign an investigator per that area specifically. As far as those additional positions, what that would do would allow us to decrease those geographical areas as a whole from a county prospective. I would anticipate since the greater number of calls come from the Estates, the Golden Gate area and East Naples area, that you would see a majority of-- you would see a percentage of that go towards the Golden Gate Estates area specifically. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Another question, too. The people that are going to be working at the facility itself, the kennel keepers, or whatever we call them, are they going to be displacing anything as far as volunteers go. I know they got a tremendous volunteer contingency down there and I would hate to see us undermine it by putting extra paid help in. MR. DUNNUCK: Not at all. As matter of fact, what they will help do is stabilize that volunteer base. Our volunteer program is inconsistent and then additionally, with our kennel technicians, what we are looking to do, is be able to continue with or Spay and Neutering program with our veterinarian that we have on staff. Having the additional kennel technicians allows us to do additional spay and neutering, which has been the board of direction from several years ago which has preventive measures, and in doing so, it allows us to both be taking care of the kennel itself and making sure it's presentable as far as when we are doing our adoption program, but it also works with those volunteers. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yeah. I'll tell you why for one, I think we need the help, but I would rather hold off on making that decision until you have furnished the data that Commissioner Henning requested and then we can hear back from Commissioner Henning and Animal Control one more time. MR. DUNNUCK: Sure. Page 65 September 5, 2002 CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That's my own personal feelings. MR. DUNNUCK: Sure. We would be happy to do that in memo format. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I would -- I would like to echo that. As you were telling me, or telling us how you're divided it into districts and each person has their own district, I'm thinking if-- does that person just ride around the district all day long and if they don't see any dogs or cats, then what do they do with their time or are they on-call? And so I would like to see just as Commissioner Henning asked, I would like to see a record of calls and how many people we have hired over the last two years and what they do. I don't think I can make a decision right now. I can't see -- MR. DUNNUCK: Sure. We can go into discussion on the number of calls right now if you would like. Otherwise, we can give you that time and provide you the data to analyze. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I would rather see us do it separate from this meeting so that we can move along and also, too, give Commissioner Henning, for one and possibly other commissioners, I would like to see the data, a little time to digest it and ask questions that may be a little more detailed and want to get into in this particular hearing. MR. DUNNUCK: Okay. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Next item. MS. VASEY: I would like to take the next two items on our list together. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I'm sorry. Commissioner Carter -- MS. VASEY: Oh, I'm sorry. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Carter, I didn't mean to cut you -- Page 66 September 5, 2002 COMMISSIONER CARTER: I think you have a seeing problem. I have a question for the County Manager. You have reviewed all of these recommendations by the Productivity Committee. I know you have met with Mr. Gibson, you have met with Ms. Vasey Do you have a recommendation for us based on all proposals that are here as to what you think we need to do or what you would recommend cutting from this so that we might package this up. I feel like I'm sitting back in deja Vu June budget hearings. MR. MUDD: Commissioner, I had gone over the recommendations of the Productivity Committee. I had looked at what they had to say. They had some very good comments, forced us to take a look and -- and run through that by the staff. We found about $450,000 in cuts, without having to go into the two million in the Unincorporated 111 Fund, because we already gave that to transportation for resurfacing and -- and permanent station counts and timing of lights, so they could get that done and get back at some of the extended maintenance items that they have had on their books for a while that they haven't been able to get at because of funding issues that they've had, so that parts there. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Is that the carry-forward? MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am. And you're -- you're keeping your 111 fund. Your millage rate is staying constant from what it was last year, and based on budget, that gives you about two million dollars that-- that sits there in the reserve side of the house. We thought it prudent to put it into transportation into the long term maintenance that they've got for resurfacing to get at some of those roads that they haven't been able to get to in the past and get up to speed. Because in that fund, next year, you are going to be getting into the regional park side of the house and you will have increased Page 67 September 5, 2002 demands on that particular fund. Instead of having it go up and down, to get at some of the long-term maintenance items that transportation had. The other piece, we found about 450 that -- that -- that we could get at. You have given me something, just a little while ago that said, not only do you want 450, but you want 700. What -- what disturbs me is if we determine that Mr. Dunnuck comes up to you and says, those dog catchers are justified, and you agree to them, you had basically given me -- you have taken away some flexibility I have in order to find that other $250,000 that you want to get in that process. Right now, what I've got, is I've got a mandate to go find $700,000 to earmark that and put it in a reserve fund for trauma -- for the Lee County Trauma Center. I know that right now. I plan to use a lot of the Productivity Committee's suggestions in order to try to get at those dollars. Did I answer your question, sir? COMMISSIONER CARTER: You've answered it for me, and I just think we could shorten the process if we just looked at the big picture and we know what we have asked you to do. We know that what you can take from here. There isn't one other policy decision. It may not need to be made tonight. That's in terms of the County Jam, where if you had beer sales at one of these events, that has to be a policy decision at certain events. It may go event by event that you could offset a lot of the expense, because that's a good revenue stream. I'm ready to look at -- look at it on a bigger basis. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Well, let's go down the line here and see how the rest of the Commission feels. Commissioner Fiala? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I just -- just to reiterate what I thought I heard you just say, is the two million from the carry- forward that I was very interested in seeing, you've already taken that Page 68 September 5, 2002 and put it into the road area that we need to have done. So -- so in other words, the money that the Productivity Committee has said we have there to put into roads, you have already done that. Is that -- is that what I heard you just say? MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Fine. And then you've also just said you've found another $450,000 from the suggestions Productivity gave to us, and -- and so just taking this as a lump sum, you are going to try and find another $250,000 additionally from the $450,000 that you found from the Productivity Committee's suggestions, right? MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Done. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Then I'll go down to Commissioner Henning. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I think we did give Mr. Olliff(sic) the direction to find $700,000 and while you're at it, take a couple million dollars out of the Sheriffs Budget and see if we could use some of that. Now, we -- Commissioner Carter is absolutely right. We need to put it back in your hands again. MR. MUDD: Thank you, sir. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Commissioner Coyle. You're up. Go ahead, COMMISSIONER COYLE: Am I up now? Okay. I don't like micro-managing any -- any more than any other of the members of the board. I do think there are some important issues here that -- that have to be addressed, and let me try to go over them as quickly as possible. The one is the phase-in of expanded positions. I think we recognize, and -- and the staff recognizes that with the salaries budgeted for the entire year, you're not going to have the Page 69 September 5, 2002 staff on -- on board for the entire year, so there should be some savings in the budget for personnel costs. And -- and I would merely like to see those clearly identified again for the purpose of assuring we have a very, very good base line budget starting point for next year, okay? MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER COYLE: And -- and if we take that money, we -- we move it into a reserve somewhere that we know we can use it for some other purposes that -- that at least -- at least it's clearly identified. I personally am-- am very much opposed to any of these - - these events with or without beer sales. I do not believe this is a function of county government. I believe these things are best handled by the private industry. I think they can do a better job and we don't have to spend staff time and General Fund revenues doing it. I -- I would urge that the Board not approve any funds for either of those two events. And I think the -- I would like some additional information concerning the EMS level of standards and how we are going to address those and why we want to make changes, but I can deal with that outside this meeting. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Then I think we've got sufficient direction going to the County Manager, although I got to -- hate to be the lone man out on this. I'm a little bit nervous about the fact that it seems we are assigning our responsibilities to the County Manager and the Productivity Committee. But I sure hope the next time around when this comes back to us on the 18th, that we will be ready to do a more complete debriefing of the items that are left for consideration. I would-- I would like to hear the Commission's opinion upon what Commissioner Coyle just brought up, as far as the Parks and Page 70 September 5, 2002 Rec and the concerts. Would you like to bring that back or did you want to reach a final decision on that today? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner? CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yes, please. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I -- I just say that we give John Dunnuck a pot of money, what has been identified, and let him choose what he cuts, what is there and what is not. I mean, it's no different than the City of Naples. They have a 4th of July party out there and -- and that's quite an event and it is a community function no different than the others, but you need to choose what you are going to have to cut and leave it at that. COMMISSIONER COYLE: How about serving of alcoholic beverages? Is that an issue? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, it is for me, but it's not dealt with in the -- in the budget hearing. That's dealt with in a regular meeting when Mr. Dunnuck comes to us with -- COMMISSIONER COYLE: That would affect his budget, though. In order for him arrive at a budget, he's got to know whether or not he can sell beer, right? MR. DUNNUCK: Well, Conunissioners, what we did was we gave you several options. What we had worked with from the original proposed budget was reducing and finding alternative revenue sources. You asked us to go and look for private sector help. We went and we found a sponsor that would pick up an additional day of the event itself for the Country Jam. We brought that figure down to a -- what we considered a small subsidy and to the point where it could break even as an event where it wouldn't cost the taxpayer dollars -- taxpayer money at all if you want to go the route of beer sales. Page 71 September 5, 2002 If you didn't want to go the route of beer sales, we were asking for a subsidy of a budget amount, what you could say above and beyond the revenue side of it of approximately $50,000. We have had those discussions with the Productivity Committee, specifically Ms. Vasey, and if she wants to comment on it, her initial comments to me is, we could live with that. We think that's very reasonable, from their prospective. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, if it helps any, my vote is no alcoholic beverage sales. MR. DUNNUCK: And that is solely a policy level that is up to the Board. COMMISSIONER HENN1NG: I agree. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I think we've got a direction going here. Is -- any final words from the Productivity Committee? I know you put many, many hours into this. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the efforts. Obviously, you have had a great impact on the outcome of this. I think you have shortened the process considerably. I would like to thank staff for the many hours they put into it. I know it's never a pleasant procedure for you to have to sit through this while we hold life and death over your departments and I appreciate the fact that you are staying with it. We're getting that much closer to the end. Is there any final comments you have? MR. MUDD: Commissioner, I would like to -- I would like to highlight the work that the Productivity Committee did, because they asked some hard questions, and they did. And Janet did and Jim did and this whole committee were in that process. I will tell you the first time we cut, there were 2.5 million dollars worth of their suggestions that went into the road reserve, okay, if you remember correctly, from -- from the end of June and what was briefed by the -- the Tom Olliff, the county manager at the time. Page 72 September 5, 2002 And in this particular case, we're -- we're looking for 700,000, and if there is any more that the Board wants us -- because we have more speakers up and you never -- and you can't tell what -- what they're going to talk about yet, so you might have some more mandates for me before that's over. And I have talked to Mr. Gibson at great length to make sure that when we do the budget guidance this next year, that I'm -- I'm asking him to help me with that budget guidance to make sure that it - - that it gets at the issues so that we are not into the, you know, a mechanic process. If-- we talk about, what's the sealing need to be for new employees, where do we want to have, as far the limit on any increase to the budget. And we went to try to squeeze the staff and squeeze the budget to get as much money as we can for roads or those capital projects so we can minimize the amount of money that we have to borrow to mortgage far out into the future. And I'm going -- I'm going to need their help, and I've tasked the staff to make sure they are totally integrated with the Productivity Committee, not only for budget, but for any impact fees, fee changes and to make sure that they -- they go to that committee as their sounding board to make sure that it -- that they can pass that witness paper test of some very smart citizens that we have in Collier County that have volunteered their time to in order to help government become more efficient. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And since they volunteer their time, I think what we ought to do is double their pay, and then we'll let them meet twice a month rather than once. MR. MUDD: But I would like to say, thank you, sir. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: No. Thank you very much. COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I just wanted to reiterate, you've mentioned the 2.5 they helped us with in June, the two million Page 73 September 5, 2002 this time, too, with the carry-forward for the roads, so that's 4.5 million for roads. Okay. I just thought I would say that. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Carter and then anyone else who wants to make a comment and then we'll go to the five speakers. COMMISSIONER CARTER: First of all, I want to thank Jim and Janet for your excellent work. I really -- and with the conversation I had earlier today with the County Manager and some of his executives, I think we're on the verge of heading in a very new direction with involvement up front versus after the fact looking at what was done. And some of the ideas you presented me this morning, Mr. Mudd, I think that is just nothing but good news for the future of Collier County to end up with a better budget process and a role where the Board of County Commissioners keeps executive teams accountable through a process that says, here's the pot of money, as Commissioner Henning says, but you are held accountable for how you are going to do it and what are the results, and if you want changes in that, you are really going to have to do a cost benefit analysis to determine whether or not this is where we need to go in the future. So I applaud all of the efforts that's been done. I thank the Board. This will be one more part of this budget hearing, and it has been the best that I have ever been through since I have been here last four years. We have really expedited it. We've done a much better job and I think it's just the beginning of getting a lot better in the future. So it's probably those small increments of success that nobody ever writes about, nobody ever comes up and pats you on the back and says, Geez, what a great job you are doing, but it is what really Page 74 September 5, 2002 makes a good government and a good Board of County Commission operate. I thank you all. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Carter, I thank you. I mean, coming from the senior member of this board, the man of the mountain, the old man of the mountain. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We appreciate that. Okay. Why don't we go to the speakers? MS. FILSON: Okay. The next speaker is Robert Langerman. He was going to speak on Livingston Road. He may be gone. Stephen Holkanson? Don Hope? Oh, they're all gone. Jerry Myers? And Athena Thompson. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Oh, great. As you were so thoughtful to wait and be so patient, we are going to give you a full five minutes. MS. THOMPSON: Well, this might not be the right forum for it, but I got my tax letter in the mail, so this is what I have established. I'm sorry I may not be very organized, but I've never been to one of these before. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Some of us wish we hadn't either. MS. THOMPSON: All of this came about, I guess, when we received our taxes in the area saying that it was going to be going up and that Collier County taxes would be assessed in this forum tonight. And part of that included, in one of the tiny little blocks along the side of page, Stormwater Management. So a few of us in the neighborhood got together and we started thinking about this, saying, well, what has Stormwater Management done for us? And so we were a little disappointed about the taxes going up, but, I mean, I've been through this whole meeting. I'm hearing all the reasons why we have taxes and it's a wonderful thing. I mean, we all want trauma units. But if I can just Page 75 September 5, 2002 read this out loud and then if there is any questions, I just wanted to be heard. It's a -- we formed a Project Bail Out. It's a neighborhood program. It's the area of Twin Lakes, Block 2. This area includes all residencies in the area south of West Lake to South Alhambra Circle, east of US 41 to west of Goodlette Road, and this is our neighborhood. For over 30 years, the county division of Stormwater Management has been mapping and recording our area as a troublesome wet zone, an area of the county that they know they have to fix. And I did have a meeting with Stormwater Management and they pulled out all their maps and they pulled out all their satellite images and pulled out all these beautiful, puddle-like pictures of our neighborhood and said that they know there is a problem but there's only one way to deal with that, and that's to talk to your commissioner or have a petition. So I did a little research with them. They told me how it flows and they said when it rains, that it's expected that all water from residencies east of US 41 flow across our back yards, flooding all the septic tanks and filling our streets and yards until it reaches the culvert on Goodlette -- on Goodlette Road. The problem is that we have no culverts. There is no drains to take the water from -- to the culvert on Goodlette. The culvert on Goodlette, they had told me, in my Stormwater Management meeting, that it's grossly under scale for the heavy rain maintenance, so it's not only a little localized problem, but a serious problem in Naples. When we are experiencing high tide in the gulf, compounded with the heavy rain, the culvert on Goodlette doesn't work well anyway, so it doesn't matter how heavy the rains are. It doesn't Page 76 September 5, 2002 matter how bad the problem is in the neighborhood. But when that culvert doesn't get a chance to drain because of the high tide, because of the lack of Stormwater Management throughout the entire Collier County, there's a problem. For our small little neighborhood of Twin Lakes, there is a little map on the last page, they said that there is only two ways to fix this problem. It was called Ordinance No. 98-45, Section 2.02, Landowner Florida Petition Process, and there is two ways of establishing that. It was a neighborhood petition with door-to-door signing of an agreement of 51 percent or greater of our neighbors, landowners only, which is a little difficult, because there are a lot of renters in our neighborhood, to request an MSBU, the municipal service benefit unit created for us to benefit from local improvement, example, Stormwater Management. Without a landowner petition, the Collier County Board of Commissioners retains the authority, and that's what I'm here for .tonight, to see if the Board of Commissioners would think about this and toss it up and see if they are interested in creating the MSBU for our neighborhood for local improvement of Stormwater Management. And the reason for this is because of 30 years of recorded standing stormwater, door-to-door petitions just seems redundant and unfair. So it was told by me through -- through the Collier County Stormwater Management Division that, you need to contact your commissioner and ask him, sorry, Mr. Fred Coyle, your name was the one I was told, to mandate to fix Twin Lakes and to bail us out. There are several reasons because it is -- this picture, by the way, is on the comer of Capri and Grenada. The picture was taken less than a year ago on September 29th. Page 77 September 5, 2002 The reasons for this is that there is some serious health problems, because when the water rises and the heavy rains become level with our septic tanks, the water on the streets become very dirty and unhealthy. There is grave potential for the children and the people walking around in the neighborhood to contract Ecoli poisoning and other problems, and it's a threat to everyone's health. The welfare, you cannot pull out of your driveway, you can't drive down the roads, you can't determine where intersections are in less than an hour's worth of rain. And on top it, every morning, children are waiting in dirty water to try and get on their buses. And I have been told stories of the neighborhood where they have had to back up pickup trucks for children to get on the back of the truck, so they can pull up to the bus so children can get on in the morning. And from what I understand, I mean, I don't know if this is overestimated, but we fill up four school buses to Seagate Elementary School. So there is a lot of children and young families in the neighborhood and it's -- this is Naples. You don't expect for this kind of thing to happen in our neighborhood. And value, and the value of future resale and property for that whole neighborhood and what those homes are worth, what they are going for and what they could be worth, I was told and I got asked by the Collier County Stormwater Management Division, I've been asked by one of the Commissioner's offices, because I have made so many phone calls, I lost track, did I sue the people I purchased my house from? And I said, no, you know, why would I do that? And they said, well, because of non-disclosure. And I said, non-disclosure of what? Of standing water and that area is bad. Did you contact your realtor? Did you sue? Did you sue? Did you sue? I don't plan on suing. Page 78 September 5, 2002 I want to fix the problem. I have a house. I have an interest. I would like to continue to invest in the lands and invest in Naples and invest in that area, and -- CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Ma'am, I don't mean to intercept you, but I'm going to have to ask you to wind it up so that we can start addressing your-- your concerns. MS. THOMPSON: Okay. So part of-- so part of it is that the people can't even sell their homes without that being a problem, that non-disclosure. Sewers. The City of Naples has told me that they would be willing to do this financial assessment to also petition to the neighborhood whether we would like to have it, but they don't want to do it until Collier County and Stormwater Management issue their problems and issues are fixed. The city is afraid that the neighborhoods flooding will act like a septic tank and all of the sewer water -- all of the stormwater management problems will fill into the sewer drains and it would just act like a clean out at the main -- CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I -- I -- we got the point clear, and your presentation is excellent.' MS. THOMPSON: Thank you. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: What I would like to do is have your commissioner, Commissioner Coyle address you right now and then we'll go to Commissioner Henning. MS. THOMPSON: Okay. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I -- I wish you had attended our Stormwater Symposium a couple of weeks ago. MS. THOMPSON: They didn't tell me about that. COMMISSIONER COYLE: The East Naples Civic Association hosted it and we had the entire staff there to address issues of stormwater concern in District Four. I'm sorry you missed that. Page 79 September 5, 2002 I -- I will tell you that in almost the year that I have been on this commission, nobody has -- has contacted me about this problem, whatsoever. This is really the first I have heard about it. MS. THOMPSON: Okay. COMMISSIONER COYLE: But I -- your proposed solution is exactly the one I would propose. Now, there is a -- is a complicating factor. One of the problems is that that drainage ditch on Goodlette Road does fill up because it's difficult to get the water across Goodlette Road to the east so that it goes into the Gordon River flow way. The county has just recently cleaned out that portion of the Gordon River flow way, so that we'll have better -- better drainage, but the problem for you is getting the water across Goodlette Road. And -- and that problem has been complicated by a lawsuit which was joined by a former city councilman that has held up the resolution to a -- to the stormwater problem for the Goodlette Road area just north of you. That was going to be one of the primary resolutions, to divert a lot of that water from the -- the Goodlette canal over into the normal Gordon River flow way. But -- but nevertheless, your -- your problem is -- is getting the water out of your neighborhood and -- and we've got to do the same thing there. We've got to find a way to get it across Goodlette Road and into the flow way. MS. THOMPSON: They said it was a pretty simple solution. It was just a matter of the -- because I sat with the technicians who designed these maps of how to get the water out and they said that the area wouldn't be that difficult. It was just a matter of the Board of Commissioners or a -- a whole wide petition to be signed to just ask for this to happen. If not, it's not going to happen. Page 80 September 5, 2002 COMMISSIONER COYLE: For an MSBU, it seems to be that that's a very simple thing for us to accomplish; is it not? MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. And we will get - we will get with her by the end of the meeting. Ed Cant will meet her out and talk about the process in order to do that. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. MR. MUDD: But I -- but one thing that disturbs me, and we started this discussion that their taxes were going up. We don't tax for stormwater unless it's a -- a -- unless it is an MSBU or MSTU. MS. THOMPSON: It was listed in the taxes that I received. COMMISSIONER COYLE: If it was, it was a City of Naples tax bill then, because we don't tax for -- for stormwater in Collier County. MS. THOMPSON: Okay. COMMISSIONER COYLE: So now that's a little bit confusing to me, because I know that the -- the city can provide you sewer attachments. MS. THOMPSON: It was -- it was the -- the time, the date, the address of this meeting and Stormwater Management was all in the same line in my tax assessment I received. COMMISSIONER COYLE: We'll -- we'll have to clarify that, but there is no tax for stormwater. And that's one of the problems I've been dealing with here, is that there is no separate pot of money to deal with stormwater problems in Collier County. We have to take it out of Ad Valorem property taxes primarily, and -- and I have asked the staff to explore other means of funding, but so far, we haven't been able to reach a conclusion on it. But -- but your request is to set up an MSBU. Let's go about doing it, and -- and the staff can advise you as to how it can be done, and if you get a majority vote in your neighborhood, you do it. Page 81 September 5, 2002 MS. THOMPSON: Well, I would-- and there was the two ways of doing it, and that was for the majority vote or just for the Board of Commissioners to authorize them as -- COMMISSIONER COYLE: This Board is not likely to take an independent vote to impose taxes on anybody. If-- if-- if we are going to set up an MSBU, it's going to have to be a majority of homeowners who will agree to do so, and that's really the only way I think this Board will act on that. We just went through a morning of-- of complaints from people who had been pulled into an MSBU because they felt they had not had -- had a voice and felt that they did not have representation. And we spent hours this morning dealing with people who were unhappy about that. We are not likely to repeat that mistake again. So I -- I think that the way to deal with that is to get the majority vote and then we take - we proceed with solving this problem for you. MS. THOMPSON: And the city has offered to help with getting the majority vote and the notices out to all of the homeowners. Will the county? CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Can I -- can I make a suggestion, Commissioner Coyle? COMMISSIONER COYLE: Sure. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I think you are going in the right direction, both of you, but this is a budget hearing and we're trying to settle a major problem that has been existing for years. It just came to our knowledge. I need for you set up an appointment to come in and meet with Commissioner Coyle and our Stormwater director and we'll start the whole process going, and we'll walk you through it. We are there for you. Believe me, you've got a real good commissioner that will take care of you. Page 82 September 5, 2002 MS. THOMPSON: Well, they have created the -- the petition. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That's a start, but it might not be a legal petition. That's the problem. MS. THOMPSON: Collier County -- CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Oh, well, then you are halfway there. What you need to do is, this is something we are not going to settle in this meeting. What I need you to do is to bring this back and Commissioner Coyle has a got a that he accommodates everybody. How do you like that? If-- you get his home phone number and you call him at night -- COMMISSIONER COYLE: If you can do it between now and Tuesday night. So really, if you want to move quickly, anytime between now and Tuesday night. If it's on a weekend, that's fine. MS. THOMPSON: Okay. COMMISSIONER COYLE: If you want to get together and talk about this, that's fine. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning, you got the light lit here. Do you have something to add to this? COMMISSIONER HENNING: I did, but everything was covered in more detail than I want to cover tonight. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Thank you very much, ma'am. And does that conclude the business we have here today? MR. MUDD: Ms. Filson, do we have any other speakers? MS. FILSON: No, sir. MR. MUDD: That concludes based on the direction from the -- CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Well, we'll go around the table one here for final comments. MR. SMYKOWSKI: We need to adopt a couple of resolutions, time sir. Item #2E Page 83 September 5, 2002 RESOLUTION 2002 342 RE THE TENTATIVE MILLAGE RATES - ADOPTED 5/0 CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Walk us through it. MR. SMYKOWSKI: There's a -- the first resolution is to adopt the tentative millage rates. We need two separate motions, strict reading of Florida Statute. The Pollution Control Fund is a dependent district, and as such, should be adopted by a separate motion, so I would need a motion to that effect. COMMISSIONER CARTER: So moved. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We have a motion by Commissioner Carter, a second by Commissioner Henning. Any questions or discussion? All those in favor, indicate by saying, aye. THE BOARD: Aye. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: The ayes have it five to zero. MR. SMYKOWSKI: And then a motion to approve the -- the balance of the tentative millage rates as outlined in the -- in the attachments that I walked through at the beginning of this hearing. COMMISSIONER CARTER: So moved. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Motion by Commissioner Carter, second by Commissioner Henning. Any questions? All those in favor, indicate by saying aye. THE BOARD: Aye. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: The ayes have it five to zero. Item #2F Page 84 September 5, 2002 RESOLUTION 2002-343 RE THE AMENDED TENTATIVE BUDGET- ADOPTED 5/0 MR. SMYKOWSKI: We would need two similar motions to adopt the amended tentative budgets as outlined this evening. COMMISSIONER HENN1NG: So moved. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Second. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We have a motion by Commissioner Henning and a second by Commissioner Carter. Any questions? Any discussion? All those in favor, indicate by saying aye. THE BOARD: Aye. MR. SMYKOWSKI: And one for the balance that was for the dependent district, we have two motions for each. COMMISSIONER FIALA: So moved. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Second. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Motion by Commissioner Fiala, second by Commissioner Carter. Any discussions? All those in favor, indicate by saying aye. THE BOARD: Aye. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Ayes have it five to zero. Item #2G ANNOUNCEMENT OF TENTATIVE MILLAGE RATES AND PERCENTAGE CHANGES IN PROPERTY TAX RATES MR. SMYKOWSKI: The proposed tax rates, I just have to walk through briefly. The announcement of the tax rates, percentage change in property tax rates. The General Fund is millage neutral with the same millage rate as levied last year, 3.8772. It's an increase of 12.4 percent above the rolled back rate. Page 85 September 5, 2002 Water Pollution Control is .0347, a decrease of 7.2 percent below the rolled back rate for a total county-wide millage of 3.9119. It's a 12.2 percent increase above the rolled back rate. The aggregate millage rate is 4.5970. The percentage increase above the rolled back rate is 13.74 percent. Item #2H ANNOUNCEMENT OF FINAL PUBLIC HEARING The final is the announcement of the final budget hearing. It will be Wednesday, September 18th at 5:05 p.m. Staff, at that point, it will be held in this building in the commission chambers and we will bring forth the recommendations for the $700,000 at that time. And we also have direction to follow-up in writing relevant to the Animal Control Issue in terms of calls for service and the need for the kennel techs. And with that, Mr. Chairman, we have completed our business for this evening and we are ready to adjourn. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. We'll go down the line here to see if there is any comments from the Commissioners? We'll start with Commissioner Carter. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Oh, it's been a pleasure. My apologies to Commissioner Coletta and Henning over your debate under the trauma center, but gentlemen, please remember that we are professionals and we can take our arguments outside. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Fiala? COMMISSIONER FIALA: No comment. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: With that, I would just say that I have enjoyed working with every one of you this evening. I think we have major big strides. Go ahead, Commissioner Coyle. Page 86 September 5, 2002 COMMISSIONER COYLE: the politics of the park vote was? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Does anybody want to know what Yeah. by? COMMISSIONER CARTER: Yeah. How much did you win CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And when can people vote? What is the day they can go out and vote? COMMISSIONER COYLE: September the 10th. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Oh, Commissioner Henning. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You can vote in the elections building right now. COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's right. You can do that. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, really? CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I'm sorry about that. Commissioner Henning. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you. Talking to the clerk of courts over there, I got some information that was very astounding to me to hear, but it costs us $9.50 per agenda page, that costs the taxpayers for our meeting. It was very surprising. COMMISSIONER FIALA: One page? COMMISSIONER HENN1NG: One page. So I would hope maybe in the future we can find some ways to cut down that recording period for the taxpayers, and I have enjoyed every minute of it today. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Anything from you, Mr. Mudd? MR. MUDD: No, sir. I wouldn't dare. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Mr. Weigel, do you have any closing comments? MR. WEIGEL: None at all. Thank you. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: All right. I guess with that, we're done. Thank you. Page 87 (Whereupon, the meeting was adjourned.) September 5, 2002 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEAL/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL D:~IQHT'Ei::~ROCK, CLERK - , j~-;':; ,.._/_ _.,.. . ~;ce~,as ~-o C~'Jr'man, s ' These minutes approved by thc Board on as presented ~ or as corrected Page 88 September 5, 2002 STATE OF FLORIDA) COUNTY OF COLLIER) I, Kimberly J. Lowe, Professional Reporter, do hereby certify that the foregoing meeting was taken before me at the date and place as stated, is a true record of my stenographic notes taken at said meeting. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I hereunto set my hand this 19th day of September, 2002. Kimberly J. Lowe, Professional Reporter Page 89