BCC Minutes 02/09/2016 R BCC
REGULAR
MEETING
MINUTES
February 9, 2016
February 9, 2016
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, February 9, 2016
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the
Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special
districts as have been created according to law and having conducted
business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION
in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida,
with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Donna Fiala
Tom Henning
Penny Taylor
Tim Nance
Georgia Hiller
ALSO PRESENT:
Leo E. Ochs, Jr., County Manager
Nick Casalanguida, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal Kinzel, Finance Director
Troy Miller, Television Operations Manager
Page 1
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Community Redevelopment Agency Board (CRAB)
Airport Authority
L. ,./:
r - `
O1
AGENDA
Board of County Commission Chambers
Collier County Government Center
3299 Tamiami Trail East, 3rd Floor
Naples FL 34112
February 09, 2016
9:00 AM
Commissioner Donna Fiala, District 1 — BCC Chair
Commissioner Tim Nance, District 5 — BCC Vice-Chair; CRAB Chair
Commissioner Georgia Hiller, District 2 — Community & Economic Develop. Chair
Commissioner Tom Henning, District 3 — PSCC Representative
Commissioner Penny Taylor, District 4 — CRAB Vice-Chair; TDC Chair
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE
ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE
(3) MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
PUBLIC COMMENT ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE CURRENT OR
FUTURE AGENDA TO BE HEARD NO SOONER THAN 1:00 P.M., OR AT THE
CONCLUSION OF THE AGENDA; WHICHEVER OCCURS FIRST.
REQUESTS TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT ON
THIS AGENDA MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING WITH EXPLANATION
TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF
THE MEETING AND WILL BE HEARD UNDER "PUBLIC PETITIONS."
Page 1
February 9, 2016
PUBLIC PETITIONS ARE LIMITED TO THE PRESENTER, WITH A
MAXIMUM TIME OF TEN MINUTES.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDING PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53 AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE
BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN
ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES
MANAGEMENT DIVISION LOCATED AT 3335 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL,
SUITE 1, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112-5356, (239) 252-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DIVISION.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M
1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
A. Reverend Beverly Duncan - Naples United Church of Christ
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of today's regular, consent and summary agenda as amended (Ex
Parte Disclosure provided by Commission members for consent agenda.)
B. January 12, 2016 - BCC/Regular Meeting Minutes
Page 2
February 9, 2016
C. January 25, 2016 - Joint Meeting with BCC/North Collier Fire Control
3. SERVICE AWARDS
4. PROCLAMATIONS
A. Proclamation recognizing and congratulating the United States Postal
Service on receiving the WRAP award for its continued efforts to promote
waste reduction, reuse and recycling and for sustaining the usable life of the
Collier County Landfill. To be accepted by Mr. Richard Barber, Postmaster
at Goodlette-Frank Road Postal Service location.
B. Proclamation designating February 12, 2016 as Collier Area Transit's 15th
Anniversary Celebration Day. In recognition of the anniversary celebration,
Collier County residents and visitors are invited to ride CAT free on Friday,
February 12, 2016. To be accepted by Steve Carnell, Public Services
Department Head; Michelle Arnold, Public Transit and Neighborhood
Enhancement Director and staff
5. PRESENTATIONS
A. Presentation of the Collier County Business of the Month for February 2016
to Insurance and Risk Management Services Inc. To be accepted by George
Schmelzle, President, Insurance and Risk Management Services, Inc.
(IRMS); Bill Kuhlman, Executive Vice President, IRMS; Donna Engel,
Service Department Manager, IRMS; Sara Hines, Administration
Department Manager, IRMS; Brandon Hipwell, Underwriting Department
Manager, IRMS; Kristi Bartlett, Vice President, Opportunity Naples, the
Greater Naples Chamber of Commerce; and Andrea Sturzenegger, Vice
President, Marketing & Membership, the Greater Naples Chamber of
Commerce.
6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
Item #7 to be heard no sooner than 1:00 pm unless otherwise noted.
7. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE CURRENT
OR FUTURE AGENDA
Page 3
February 9, 2016
Item #8 and Item #9 to be heard no sooner than 1:30 pm unless otherwise noted.
8. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
9. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. This item to be heard at 9:30 a.m. This item continued from the
January 26, 2016 BCC Meeting. This item requires that ex parte
disclosure be provided by Commission members. Should a hearing be
held on this item, all participants are required to be sworn in.
Recommendation to approve a Resolution providing for the establishment of
a Conditional Use to allow a church within an Estates (E) zoning district
pursuant to Section 2.03.01.B.1.c.1 of the Collier County Land Development
Code for a 4.05± acre property located on the south side of Pine Ridge Road
(C.R. 896), one-quarter mile east of Interstate 75, in Section 17, Township
49 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida [Petition CU-
PL20140000543].
10. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
A. Recommendation to direct the County Manager to develop and compile the
results of a vendor satisfaction survey. This proposed survey seeks
perspectives and insights from its procurement vendors regarding
procurement and payment processes and to evaluate responses for potential
systematic improvements in procurement, communications and payment
processes. The intent of the survey is to identify process betterment
opportunities, to improve customer service, and encourage vendor
participation in and satisfaction with Collier County procurement needs and
opportunities. (Commissioner Nance)
11. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
A. Recommendation to create a Local Rule Review Committee (LRRC) by
resolution for the purpose of reviewing manatee protection zones as
proposed by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission (FWC) and to
provide local input to FWC. (Gary McAlpin, Coastal Zone Manager)
B. Recommendation to approve Change Order Number Four to Compass
Construction, Inc. to upgrade the Pickleball Courts surface, in the former
Page 4
February 9,2016
skate park, at East Naples Community Park, make a finding that this
expenditure promotes tourism, and authorize necessary budget amendments.
(Fiscal Impact $46,180) (Margaret Bishop, Facilities Senior Project
Manager)
C. Recommendation to approve Change Order Number Five to Compass
Construction, Inc. to construct Pickleball Courts, over existing tennis courts,
at East Naples Community Park to support the 2016 US Open Pickleball
Championships; recognize a donation from Minto Communities of Florida,
approve the necessary budget amendment, and authorize the Chair to
execute the change order (Fiscal Impact $250,498). (Margaret Bishop,
Facilities Senior Project Manager)
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY
A. AIRPORT
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
A. Current BCC Workshop Schedule
16. CONSENT AGENDA - All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the Board, that item(s) will
be removed from the Consent Agenda and considered separately.
A. GROWTH MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to authorize the publication of a notice announcing
the intent to exchange a 0.0471 acre parcel of land in return for a 0.60
Page 5
February 9,2016
acre parcel of land for right-of-way required for the Wolfe
Road/Pristine Drive loop road.
2) Recommendation to approve the release of a code enforcement lien
with an accrued value of$573,330.04 for payment of$2,000, in the
code enforcement action entitled Board of County Commissioners v.
James C. Marshall and Sherry Marshall, Code Enforcement Board
Case No. 2002120972 a/k/a (CEB 2004-72), relating to property
located at 820 20th Avenue NW, Collier County, Florida.
3) This item requires that ex parte disclosure be provided by
Commission members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all
participants are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to
approve for recording the final plat of Hacienda Lakes of Naples
Phase II, (Application Number PPL-PL20150002341) approval of the
standard form Construction and Maintenance Agreement and approval
of the amount of the performance security.
4) Recommendation to grant final approval of the required
improvements for the final plat of Cameron Commons Unit One
Application Number AR-12061 with the required improvements being
privately maintained and authorizing the release of the maintenance
security.
5) Recommendation to authorize the Clerk of Courts to release a Cash
Bond in the amount of$35,060 which was posted as a guaranty for
Excavation Permit Number 60.089-3 (PL20140001402) for work
associated with Corsica at Talis Park.
6) Recommendation to approve and enter into a License Agreement with
Naples Community Hospital, Inc. (NCH) for the purpose of the
installation of two ground signs within County road right-of-way.
7) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to execute
Project Agreement No. 15C01-South Marco Island Beach
Renourishment for cost share reimbursement funding with the Florida
Department of Environmental Protection (FDEP) Beach Management
Funding Assistance Program for partial reimbursement of damages
Page 6
February 9, 2016
caused by Tropical Storm Fay.
8) Recommendation to review and approve the list of proposed projects
to be submitted for the FY 2017 Big Cypress Basin Local Partnership
Grants Program.
9) Recommendation to approve a Hold Harmless and Indemnity
Agreement, and Payment Bond in the amount of$342,991.09 in lieu
of the required Final Waiver of Liens from the Utility Contractor for
the preliminarily acceptance of the water and sewer facilities
associated with Tamiami Crossings Shopping Center,
PL20160000023.
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
1) Recommendation that the Collier County Board of County
Commissioners (BCC) as the Collier County Community
Redevelopment Agency (CRA) approve the submission of the
attached Letter of Intent and related Resolution and MOU to the
Southwest Florida Regional Planning Council (SWFRPC)
memorializing the CRA's role as an active partner in carrying out the
tasks related to the Federal Promise Zone designation for Immokalee.
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT
D. PUBLIC SERVICES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to approve a Resolution superseding Resolution No.
2015-078 and authorize Collier Area Transit to implement a
Corporate Employee Discount Transit Pass Program with the goal of
encouraging the use of transit.
2) Recommendation to accept Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation
Commission Habitat Assistance Funding for Management Activities
at the Conservation Collier Nancy Payton Preserve.
3) Recommendation to acknowledge and approve an Assignment,
Assumption and Amendment of a Subrecipient Agreement between
the Foundation for the Developmentally Disabled, Inc. and
Page 7
February 9, 2016
Community Assisted and Supported Living, Inc., transferring
subrecipient responsibilities for three Neighborhood Stabilization
Program properties from the former to the latter. This item has no
new fiscal impact.
4) Recommendation to approve a substantial amendment and
subrecipient agreement presented by the Division of Community and
Human Services for a project previously approved in the FY 2015-16
Action Plan for the Community Development Block Grant Program.
This item has no new fiscal impact.
5) Recommendation to approve and authorize the Chairman to sign an
Agreement and its Addendum with the American Red Cross to fund
swim lessons through the Aquatics Centennial Program.
6) Recommendation to accept an extension to the State Housing
Initiatives Partnership program grant expenditure deadline for Fiscal
Year 2012/2013 granted by the Florida Housing Finance Corporation.
7) Recommendation to acknowledge February 12, 2016, as Collier Area
Transit's Fifteen Year Anniversary and to authorize complimentary
rides to all transit riders on that date.
E. ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES DEPARTMENT
1) Recommendation to award ITB #15-6474R, "Medical Oversight
Physician (Part A) for Collier County and Employment Physicals &
Drug Testing (Part B)" to Advance Medical of Naples, LLC in the
estimated annual amount of$134,083.50.
2) Recommendation to approve a one-year extension to the Special Use
Permit with the United States Department of the Interior National
Park Service Big Cypress National Preserve for the Carnstown
Sheriff's Substation and to approve a Budget Amendment on behalf of
the Sheriff's Office.
3) Recommendation to approve a Resolution authorizing the Board of
County Commissioners' Chairperson to execute Deed Certificates for
the sale of burial plots at Lake Trafford Memorial Gardens Cemetery
Page 8
February 9, 2016
during the 2016 calendar year, on behalf of the Administrative
Services Department.
4) Recommendation to increase the compensation for the County
Medical Director by 5% in accordance with the Collier County
Emergency Services Medical Director Agreement.
5) Recommendation to increase the compensation of the County Deputy
Medical Director by 5% in accordance with the Collier County
Emergency Services Deputy Medical Director Agreement.
6) Recommendation to approve the administrative reports prepared by
the Procurement Services Division for modifications to work orders,
change orders, surplus property and other items as identified.
F. COUNTY MANAGER OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to approve Amendment#1 to Contract #15-6439
Hosting Agreement between Collier County and Spirit Promotions,
LLC; promoter for the US Open Pickleball Championships, for access
to County Park property to provide a stadium court for the
Championship tournament and accept the donation of the upgraded
court.
2) Recommendation to approve Tourist Tax Category "B" funding up to
$6,450 to support the two upcoming FY 16 Pickleball Tournaments at
East Naples Community Park and make a finding that these
expenditures promote tourism.
3) Recommendation to approve a Tourist Development Council
Category "B" out of cycle grant agreement for Spirit Promotions,
LLC in the amount of$25,000 to fund airing and production costs for
a prime time special highlighting the 2016 US Open Pickleball
Championships in Collier County, authorize the Chairman to execute
the agreement and make a finding that this expenditure promotes
tourism.
4) Recommendation to approve revised Tourist Development Council
Grant Application Forms for Category B and C-2 and Sports Event
Page 9
February 9, 2016
Assistance for FY17 (October 1, 2016 - September 30, 2017)
reflecting changes discussed and recommended at the TDC Grant
Workshop on January 13, 2016 and TDC Meeting on January 25,
2016, and make a finding that this item promotes tourism.
5) Recommendation to award ITB #15-6522 - Tourist Fulfillment
Services to Phase V of Florida, LLC. and make a finding that this item
promotes tourism.
6) Recommendation to approve a report covering budget amendments
impacting reserves and moving funds in an amount up to and
including $25,000 and $50,000, respectively.
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
1) Recommendation to appoint two members to the Code Enforcement
Board.
2) Recommendation to appoint one member to the Pelican Bay Services
Division Board.
3) Recommendation to approve a Resolution formally requesting that the
Florida Communities Trust allow a long term, renewable lease
between Collier County and the Goodland Arts Alliance for County-
owned property at 326 Pettit Drive, Goodland, Florida.
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
1) Miscellaneous Correspondence
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1) To record in the minutes of the Board of County Commissioners, the
check number (or other payment method), amount, payee, and
purpose for which the referenced disbursements were drawn for the
periods between January 14 and January 27, 2016 pursuant to Florida
Page 10
February 9, 2016
Statute 136.06.
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1) Recommendation to approve a Joint Motion and Stipulated Final
Judgment in the amount of$12,000 for Parcels 102DUE and 102TCE,
in the lawsuit captioned Collier County v. Henry Allen Fish, et al,
Case No. 2015-CA-1810, required for the Intersection Improvement
Project No. 60016. (Fiscal Impact: $4,870)
2) Recommendation to authorize an increase to the purchase order for
Nabors, Giblin & Nickerson, P.A. ("Nabors Giblin") relating to legal
services in the case of Collier County v. Orange Tree Utility Co., et al,
Case No. 2014-CA-001434 and all work related to concluding the
acquisition and integration of the Orange Tree Utility Company into
the Collier County Water-Sewer District.
17. SUMMARY AGENDA - This section is for advertised public hearings and
must meet the following criteria: 1) A recommendation for approval from
staff; 2) Unanimous recommendation for approval by the Collier County
Planning Commission or other authorizing agencies of all members present
and voting; 3) No written or oral objections to the item received by staff, the
Collier County Planning Commission, other authorizing agencies or the
Board, prior to the commencement of the BCC meeting on which the items
are scheduled to be heard; and 4) No individuals are registered to speak in
opposition to the item. For those items which are quasi-judicial in nature, all
participants must be sworn in.
A. This item requires that ex parte disclosure be provided by Commission
members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all participants are
required to be sworn in. Recommendation to (1) approve Ordinance No.
2004-41, as amended, the Collier County Land Development Code, which
established the comprehensive zoning regulations for the unincorporated
area of Collier County, Florida by amending the appropriate zoning atlas
map or maps by changing the zoning classification of the herein described
real property from the Agricultural (A) zoning district and the Residential
Planned Unit Development (RPUD) zoning district to a Residential Planned
Page 11
February 9, 2016
Unit Development (RPUD) zoning district for a 106.67± acre parcel to be
known as the Rockedge RPUD to allow up to 266 dwelling units on property
located near the northeast corner of the intersection of Sabal Palm Road and
Collier Boulevard in Section 23, Township 50 South, Range 26 East, Collier
County, Florida; providing for repeal of Ordinance No. 06-31, the former
Rockedge Residential Planned Unit Development; and providing an
effective date [Petition PUDRPL20150002246] and (2) terminate agreement
authorizing Affordable Housing Density Bonus and Imposing Covenants
and Restrictions on Real Property.
18. ADJOURN
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD'S AGENDA SHOULD
BE MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER'S OFFICE AT 252-8383.
Page 12
February 9,2016
February 9, 2016
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Good morning, everyone. Thank you so
much for being here this morning. I would ask now that you stand with
me to hear the prayer, and then we'll say the Pledge of Allegiance.
REVEREND DUNCAN: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Tell us your name and church.
REVEREND DUNCAN: Oh, Reverend Beverly Duncan, Naples
United Church of Christ.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Item #1A
INVOCATION GIVEN BY REVEREND BEVERLY DUNCAN —
NAPLES UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST
REVEREND DUNCAN: Let us pray.
On this day of deliberation, we pray to the Spirit of all that is
good and true that the members of this body might remember who they
are and who they represent, a human panoply of need, comfort, hunger,
abundance, wholeness, pain, joy, ingenuity, ease, determination,
discouragement and hope.
So may the decisions and the votes today reflect the generous
spirit we invoke this morning to surround, guide and bless each leader
here and the work they have before them. May it be so. Amen,
Shalom, Salaam.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
And now would you put your hand over your heart, please.
(Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, Leo, would you like to start us off,
please.
Item #2A
Page 2
February 9, 2016
APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED (EX PARTE
DISCLOSURE PROVIDED BY COMMISSION MEMBERS FOR
CONSENT AGENDA) — APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED
W/CHANGES (ITEM #16J1 SERVES A VALID PUBLIC
PURPOSE)
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am. Good morning, Madam Chair and
Commissioners. These are the proposed agenda changes for the Board
of County Commissioners' meeting of February 9th, 2016.
The first proposed change is to add Item 10.B to today's agenda
under Board of County Commissioners. This is a recommendation to
consider North Collier Fire Control and Rescue District's response to
the county's settlement proposal regarding the provision of advanced
life support services in the district. That add is made at Chairman
Fiala's request.
The next proposed change is to move Item 16.A.6 from the
consent agenda to become Item 11 .D under the County Manager's
report. The next proposed -- excuse me, and that is made at
Commissioner Henning's request.
The next proposed change is to withdraw Item 16.A.9. That is a
staff request for withdrawal, as that item has resolved itself.
Next proposed change is to move Item 16.D.4 from the consent
agenda to become Item 11 .E under County Manager's report. This is a
discussion of a Community Development Block Grant sub-recipient
agreement. And that move is made at Commissioner Fiala's request.
The next proposed change is to continue Item 16.F.5 to your next
meeting, which is February 23rd. And that is made at staffs request.
The next proposed change is to move Item 17.A from your
summary agenda to become Item 9.B under advertised public hearings.
Page 3
February 9, 2016
This is a consideration of an amendment to the Rock Edge Planned
Unit Development. And that move is made at Commissioner
Henning's request.
Commissioners, I have one additional request that's not on your
change sheet, and that is related to Item 16.J.1 on your consent agenda.
That is the disbursement report. And I would ask when the Board
approves their consent agenda if it would include a motion that those
expenditures are deemed by the Board to meet a valid public purpose
and those expenditures can be released for payment.
I have two time certain items on today's agenda, Commissioners.
The first is Item 9.A; that's scheduled to be heard at 9:30. And then
Item 9.B, which is the item that was moved off summary, would be
heard immediately following 9.A.
And those are all the changes that I have this morning, Madam
Chair.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you very much.
County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: No changes, Madam Chair.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, thank you very much.
Commissioners, do you have any additions, changes or anything?
We'll start with Commissioner Taylor.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, no additions or changes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And anything to declare -- there's
nothing really to declare on the consent agenda now is there with that
move to 9.B.
Okay, Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, I have no further changes and
no disclosure on today's regular or consent agenda.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No, neither do I. It's kind of nice. And no
changes.
Commissioner Hiller?
Page 4
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you. I'd like to address the
comment that Leo just made about requiring the Board to declare a
valid public purpose and approve the expenditures for payment.
Has the Clerk removed those statements from his report as
presented? Or his executive summary, his recommendation? Is that
what's happened?
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am. A few months ago the Executive
Summary recommendation was modified. It no longer contained the
phrase that -- ask the Board to make a finding that those expenditures
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Serve a valid --
MR. OCHS: -- serve a valid public purpose.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- public purpose and approve
them for payment.
MR. OCHS: Yes, yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So why don't we, going forward, if
he's not putting that in as part of his executive summary, make it an
executive summary of our own ahead of approving that report or some
way incorporate it, you know, as a standard going forward? You
know, I mean, clearly he should have that in there. But if he's not, you
know, we need to have that in there.
Because what's unequivocal is that he cannot make payments
ahead of our approval for disbursement, because otherwise he's clearly
engaging in discretionary spending without the Board's approval.
Is he making payments ahead of Board approval for payment?
MR. OCHS: I believe in some cases that would be correct, yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, that's unacceptable. That's
quite frankly illegal and violates the ordinance and violates statute.
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am, I think that --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: And, quite frankly, the
Constitution.
Page 5
February 9, 2016
MR. OCHS: I think it goes back to a prior Executive Summary
and Board discussion where they had asked then Chairman Nance to
send a letter to the Clerk asking to produce a payables report, and the
Clerk responded that he was unable or unwilling to do that, so we've
kind of been at a bit of a stalemate about what to do next. And of
course --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's unacceptable.
MR. OCHS: -- part of this is part of the litigation that's ongoing.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, he has to produce a payables
report. He has a duty to produce that. I mean, he has a contract with
us to produce those documents.
MR. OCHS: Well perhaps, Commissioners, I could suggest that
we bring that prior item back at the next Board meeting and we can
have some full discussion on this and it will be a published agenda
item so people will have an opportunity --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I think that would be a very good
idea. Does the rest of the Board feel like that?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Fine by me.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, thank you very much.
With respect to the consent items, I have no disclosures. With
respect to the agenda, I have no changes.
And I just want to turn and ask Commissioner Fiala, how's your
knee?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It's good.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Good. I want to make sure you're
okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No slowing down.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, I know that. I just wanted to
make sure you're feeling well and your knee is better.
That's it.
Page 6
February 9, 2016
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No ex parte on today's consent
or summary.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine. And with that I ask for a
motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Motion to approve as discussed,
including the finding on 16.J.1 that it meets a valid public purpose.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, and a second?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And that we approve for payment.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I second it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine. All in favor, signify by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, very good.
Oh, you mean this one that you can't hear me on? Thank you,
Troy.
Page 7
Proposed Agenda Changes
Board of County Commissioners Meeting
February 9,2016
Add On Item 10B: Recommendation to consider North Collier Fire Control and Rescue District's
response to the County's settlement proposal regarding the provision of Advanced Life Support(ALS)
Services in the District. (Commissioner's Fiala's request)
Move Item 16A6 to Item 11D: Recommendation to approve and enter into a License Agreement with Naples
Community Hospital,Inc.(NCH)for the purpose of the installation of two ground signs within County road
right-of-way. (Commissioner Henning's request)
Withdraw Item 16A9: Recommendation to approve a Hold Harmless and Indemnity Agreement,and
Payment Bond in the amount of$343,991.09 in lieu of the required Final Waiver of Liens from the Utility
Contractor for the preliminarily acceptance of the water and sewer facilities associated with Tamiami
Crossings Shopping Center,PL20160000023. (Staff's request)
Move Item 16D4 to Item 11E: Recommendation to approve a substantial amendment and subrecipient
agreement presented by the Division of Community and Human Services for a project previously approved in
the FY 2015-16 Action Plan for the Community Development Block Grant Program. This item has no new
fiscal impact. (Commissioner Fiala's request)
Continue Item 16F5 to the February 23,2016 BCC Meeting: Recommendation to award ITB 15-6522-
Tourist Fulfillment Services to Phase V of Florida,LLC.and make a finding that this item promotes tourism.
(Staffs request)
Move Item 17A to Item 9B: This item requires that ex parte disclosure be provided by Commission
members. Should a hearing be held on this item,all participants are required to be sworn in.
Recommendation to(1)approve Ordinance No.2004-41,as amended,the Collier County Land Development
Code,which established the comprehensive zoning regulations for the unincorporated area of Collier County,
Florida by amending the appropriate zoning atlas map or maps by changing the zoning classification of the
herein described real property from the Agricultural(A)zoning district and the Residential Planned Unit
Development(RPUD)zoning district to a Residential Planned Unit Development(RPUD)zoning district for a
106.67±acre parcel to be known as the Rockedge RPUD to allow up to 266 dwelling units on property located
near the northeast corner of the intersection of Sabal Palm Road and Collier Boulevard in Section 23,
Township 50 South,Range 26 East,Collier County,Florida; providing for repeal of Ordinance No.06-31,the
former Rockedge Residential Planned Unit Development; and providing an effective date [Petition
PUDRPL20150002246].and(2)terminate agreement authorizing Affordable Housing Density Bonus and
Imposing Covenants and Restrictions on Real Property. (Commissioner Henning's request)
Time Certain Items
Item 9A to be heard at 9:30 a.m.,immediately followed by Item 9B
2/9/2016 10:05 AM
February 9, 2016
Item #2B and #2C
MINUTES FROM THE JANUARY 12, 2016 BCC REGULAR
MEETING AND MINUTES FROM THE JANUARY 25, 2016
JOINT WORKSHOP WITH THE BCC/NORTH COLLIER FIRE
CONTROL — APPROVED AS PRESENTED
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, and now we move on to the
meeting minutes. Is there anybody that would like to approve the
meeting minutes?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I move that we approve 2.B and
2.A by unanimous consent, unless there is objection from a
Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Maybe 2.C?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Excuse me, 2.B and 2.C.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, 2.B.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Second?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I second it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Looks like that's unanimous as well. We
go on to —
Item #4
Page 8
February 9, 2016
PROCLAMATIONS — ONE MOTION TAKEN TO ADOPT ALL
PROCLAMATIONS
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING AND CONGRATULATING
THE UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE ON RECEIVING THE
WRAP AWARD FOR ITS CONTINUED EFFORTS TO
PROMOTE WASTE REDUCTION, REUSE AND RECYCLING
AND FOR SUSTAINING THE USABLE LIFE OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY LANDFILL. ACCEPTED BY MR. RICHARD BARBER,
POSTMASTER AT GOODLETTE-FRANK ROAD POSTAL
SERVICE LOCATION — ADOPTED
MR. OCHS: Madam Chairman, there are no service awards
today so that would take us to Item 4 on your agenda this morning,
proclamations.
Item 4.A is a proclamation recognizing and congratulating United
States Postal Service on receiving the WRAP award for its continued
efforts to promote waste reduction, reuse and recycling, and for
sustaining the usable life of the Collier County Landfill. To be
accepted this morning by Lenia Garcell, representing the
Goodlette-Frank Road postal service location.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Are these other ladies with you
also? You're not with her?
MEMBER FROM THE AUDIENCE: Solid waste.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Oh. Well, don't you want to come
up and stand with her? Why not? Make it a party.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Everybody else in the postal
Page 9
February 9, 2016
service is out in the rain and snow and dark of night, et cetera, et
cetera.
(Applause.)
MS. GARCELL: Good morning, everyone. I have a short
speech.
On behalf of the United States Postal Service and the Suncoast
District, we would like to thank you for this award, for this
recognition.
The Postmaster and I want to assure you that the postal service in
Naples have been and will remain a good neighbor when it comes to
the environment.
From recycle of cardboard and paper daily to our dry wash of
over 250 vehicles biweekly, if it's good for the environment, it's good
for us.
On behalf of the Postmaster, Richard Barber, and the Postal
Service in general, we would like to thank you for this award.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you very much for recycling.
(Applause.)
Item #4B
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING FEBRUARY 12, 2016 AS
COLLIER AREA TRANSIT'S 15TH ANNIVERSARY
CELEBRATION DAY. IN RECOGNITION OF THE
ANNIVERSARY CELEBRATION, COLLIER COUNTY
RESIDENTS AND VISITORS ARE INVITED TO RIDE CAT
FREE ON FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2016. ACCEPTED BY
STEVE CARNELL, PUBLIC SERVICES DEPARTMENT HEAD;
MICHELLE ARNOLD, PUBLIC TRANSIT AND
NEIGHBORHOOD ENHANCEMENT DIRECTOR AND STAFF —
ADOPTED
Page 10
February 9, 2016
MR. OCHS: Item 4.B is a proclamation designating February 12,
2016 as Collier Area Transit's 15th Anniversary Celebration Day. In
recognition of the anniversary celebration, Collier County residents
and visitors are invited to ride the CAT free on Friday, February 12,
2016.
To be accepted by Steve Carrell, Public Services Department
Head; Michelle Arnold, Public Transit and Neighborhood
Enhancement Director and the staff.
(Applause.)
MS. ARNOLD: Thank you all for the proclamation, and want to
invite everybody to our celebration that's going to take place on Friday
at 10:00 at our Radio Road location, 8300 Radio Road. Thank you.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Make a motion to approve today's
proclamations.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Item #5A
PRESENTATION OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BUSINESS OF
THE MONTH FOR FEBRUARY 2016 TO INSURANCE AND
Page 11
February 9, 2016
RISK MANAGEMENT SERVICES INC. ACCEPTED BY
GEORGE SCHMELZLE, PRESIDENT, INSURANCE AND RISK
MANAGEMENT SERVICES, INC. (IRMS); BILL KUHLMAN,
EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, IRMS; DONNA ENGEL,
SERVICE DEPARTMENT MANAGER, IRMS; SARA HINES,
ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT MANAGER, IRMS; !,
BRANDON HIPWELL, UNDERWRITING DEPARTMENT
MANAGER, IRMS; KRISTI BARTLETT, VICE PRESIDENT,
OPPORTUNITY NAPLES, THE GREATER NAPLES CHAMBER
OF COMMERCE; AND ANDREA STURZENEGGER, VICE
PRESIDENT, MARKETING & MEMBERSHIP, THE GREATER
NAPLES CHAMBER OF COMMERCE — PRESENTED
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, that takes us to Item 5, Presentations.
5.A is a presentation of the Collier County Business of the Month for
February, 2016 to Insurance and Risk Management Services,
Incorporated. To be accepted by George Schmelzle, President; Bill
Kuhlman, Executive Vice President; Donna Engel, Service
Department Manager; Sarah Hines, Administration Department
Manager; Brandon Hipwell, Underwriting Department Manager; Kristi
Bartlett, Vice President, Opportunity Naples of the Greater Chamber of
Commerce; and Andrea Sturznegger, Vice President for Marketing and
Membership of the Greater Naples Chamber of Commerce.
Congratulations.
(Applause.)
MR. SCHMELZLE: I'd just like to say a quick thank you. It was
26 years ago that I joined my mom and dad right over here at
Courthouse Shadows and took a chance. And all this time later we
have 50 some employees, have had a great experience in Collier
County, and I don't know if I'll be around for another 26, but IRMS
will hopefully be here. Thank you very much.
Page 12
February 9, 2016
(Applause.)
Item #10A
DIRECT THE COUNTY MANAGER TO DEVELOP AND
COMPILE THE RESULTS OF A VENDOR SATISFACTION
SURVEY. THIS PROPOSED SURVEY SEEKS PERSPECTIVES
AND INSIGHTS FROM ITS PROCUREMENT VENDORS
REGARDING PROCUREMENT AND PAYMENT PROCESSES
AND TO EVALUATE RESPONSES FOR POTENTIAL
SYSTEMATIC IMPROVEMENTS IN PROCUREMENT,
COMMUNICATIONS AND PAYMENT PROCESSES. THE
INTENT OF THE SURVEY IS TO IDENTIFY PROCESS
BETTERMENT OPPORTUNITIES, TO IMPROVE CUSTOMER
SERVICE, AND ENCOURAGE VENDOR PARTICIPATION IN
AND SATISFACTION WITH COLLIER COUNTY
PROCUREMENT NEEDS AND OPPORTUNITIES — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, that takes us to Item 10.A under
Board of County Commissioners. This is a recommendation to direct
the County Manager to develop and compile the results of a vendor
satisfaction survey. This item was brought forward by Commissioner
Nance.
Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes. You know, upon my arrival
in the service of the county and the citizens, one of my first
observations was that one thing that we could do to save money in the
county and do a better job was to have better relationship with our
vendors. And I think if I was to tell you the one thing that we can do
to save money and spend the taxpayers money most wisely, that is to
have more bids on the work that we're offering. Through the consent
Page 13
February 9, 2016
agenda, the items up for approval, time and time again, I don't think
that we have enough bidders. And because of the obligations of
government, you know, when we do award a bid the price is well
known and that kind of sets the bar. And invariably it sets it high.
That's why people complain that, you know, N.A.S.A. buys $500 toilet
seats. Well, if we don't have enough bidders and have a good process
and have bidders that are working well together with us, I don't think
we're ever going to be able to lower our costs, and that's something I
think we should aspire to.
So, you know, in response to a lot of things that have happened, I
thought that perhaps the best way to figure out what we can do to have
better relations with our vendors, particularly considering this ongoing
controversy that we seem to have with the Clerk, the gift that keeps on
taking, I thought the best way to find out what we can do is perhaps
ask the people that we need to work with.
So I just brought this forward for the consideration of the Board.
It's just to develop a customer service survey. I believe it was Ed Koch
up there in New York that ran around the whole time he was in office
saying, you know, how am I doing. I think it's no more complicated
than that, I think it's going to be very revealing, and I just wanted to
bring it to the Board for their consideration.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I have a few lights on. I don't even know
who was first.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I was third.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Commissioner Henning was.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I thought we were the customer.
I thought that we were paying them to do a service. But we're going to
conduct a customer survey?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's a vendor satisfaction survey.
There is a difference.
Page 14
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, the recommendation is to
direct the County Manager to develop and compile results of a vendor
customer service survey.
The taxpayers are their customer. And we're the stewardship of
the taxpayers' dollars. You know, to lower our cost, how about if we
get true and accurate information when they submit for repayment? I
think that would lower cost tremendously.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I think it's a good idea, but I think
it's a much broader net we need to cast. We need to understand why
that what we've read in the work that's come before us, at least on two
occasions that I'm aware of, the vendor said, you know, it's obviously
this bid is written for the vendor who got the bid. This is not
something that is written for anyone else. It was designed for them.
So I think we -- if we're going to embark on this, I think it's one
part of it. But I also think we need to address and maybe have
procurement, give us some feedback on what the vendors are saying
and why they won't bid. Because I think that's a big part of it.
Also, I have talked to the County Manager about this, why are we
not getting more local bidders. And maybe we need to market what
we need in a much better way so there's -- it's a much bigger area than
the vendors coming back and saying -- I mean, that's a very important
part, but I think there's more to it than just that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. Leo, Nick, when did a
vendor say that the bids were tailored to specific vendors? What are
we talking about? I've never heard that.
MR. OCHS: I'm not sure.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: What vendor stood before this
Board and said that bids were tailored to a specific vendor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, we read it when we read the
Page 15
February 9, 2016
information about the Gillig, the bus. The vendor -- one of the vendors
that responded to the bid but decided not to bid said no, I'm not going
to bid because it's obviously written for the one that was awarded. It's
in the record.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can you get me that?
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am. But that purchase is made off of a
state contract that many, many counties, over 20, buy off of that same
contract. So it wasn't a specification that was written specific for
Collier County. In that instance, ma'am.
And you're right, there was one of the vendors that expressed that
concern at the state level prior to award, but that was responded to by
the state in that instance.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: State issue.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And then last year regarding a bid
for work for our marketing, media marketing for a tourist development
aspect of what we do, folks were called why didn't they respond to it
and they said why should we respond to it, it's definitely geared for the
people who are already working there. Now, that was an ad hoc
comment, but it was made.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Who was that made to?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I believe it was Nick or Nick's
department.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Nick?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Not directly to me, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, I -- my understanding is that
people didn't bid on that because the threshold was too low for them
and they were looking for a higher threshold, because it didn't make
economic sense for them to bid on a dollar amount that was under a
certain million dollar level.
So I'm sorry, but I think your comments are incorrect.
Page 16
February 9, 2016
I would like to say that I think this is a very good idea. And if the
reason that vendors are not bidding is because they believe they can't
get paid when they legitimately are owed because of the problems of
the Clerk's manner of doing business with them, then we need to know
that. I think that's absolutely critical. And I think this is one of those --
I believe this survey could in part address that issue.
Speaking to Gillig, Gillig stood in front of this Board -- and that's
the manufacturer of the bus, the buses that we acquire -- and said that
because of the Clerk's failure to pay them and the demands for
documentation, notwithstanding that they had produced evidence to
support their claim for payment and had delivered the goods, that they
weren't going to deliver any more buses to us, that they weren't going
to continue their contract with us.
And we have GC's who stood before this Board and on the record
stated that they were no longer going to provide services because the
Clerk wasn't paying them and the Clerk on a fixed price contract would
not accept that contract as evidence of payment where they had fully
conformed with the requirements of the contract and had delivered the
goods as agreed upon. Clearly that makes no sense.
So I think this is a very good idea. And, you know, the wording,
the semantics of, you know, vendor satisfaction or whatever you want
to call it is irrelevant. The issue is is that you as I understand it,
Commissioner Nance, would like to survey the potential county
vendors and find out why they're not bidding. Because you're
absolutely right, we want to get as many bidders as possible to get the
lowest possible price, because we are stewards. And, you know, I
would say that vendor satisfaction isn't probably the best way to
describe your intent, but I clearly understand what the object of this
survey is, and I commend you for coming up with the idea, because
that kind of feedback is important to us in understanding what we can
do better as stewards of the community to get the lowest possible price
Page 17
February 9, 2016
and the highest level of service at that lowest possible price.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. And Commissioner Nance --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So I'd like to make a motion to
approve.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, thank you, Madam Chair.
My intention is very simple. You know, I know hope that Board
members don't want to wordsmith this. I didn't spend a lot of time
doing this because I brought it forward for your overall consideration.
You know, you have to have a good relationship with vendors,
suppliers and craftsmen. You just have to. Any business owner knows
that. If you're not getting along with your vendors and suppliers,
you're not going to be successful, you're not going to be competitive
and you're not going to have the quality product that you need.
So this is just an effort to -- you know, we want to know what
these people think and we always refer back to the few anecdotal
examples we have when a few people do come and testify and they
express an opinion. And of course certainly you rarely hear from the
people that are happy on any issue. This Board doesn't hear from a lot
of those, we always hear from people that want to make suggestions
for improvement, and that's fine. But I think the best way to find out is
to ask them. I think we should ask all 1,800 of our current vendors and
I think we should look back at people that we have conducted business
with in the past that we are no longer conducting business with and
inquire of them why it is that that's not occurring and seek honest
answers. And I just think it would be helpful. So --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Well, that's great. I'd like to look
back too.
So maybe, Commissioner Nance, do you have -- are we going
back 20 years, are we going back 10 years? What? Give --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Ma'am, I haven't presupposed
Page 18
February 9, 2016
everything. Like I said, I just brought it forward to the Board. I would
be more than happy to work with the County Manager. I would
encourage each of you to do so, you know, if the Board decides to
make -- to approve this recommendation, direct the County Manager to
engage in this process, to work with him and develop the best survey
possible and go out and see -- let's collect some information. I think
information is power, so --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I think this --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Just like -- I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, I'm sorry.
I think this is a very good first step in assessing where we are with
our vendors and trying to get multiple bids, and it's something that I'm
very concerned about, so I would support your effort here, sir, and
your suggestion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And as the little saying goes, if you don't
know what's broken, you can't fix it. So I think this is just what your
item is going towards. And you did make a motion.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Would you like to make that motion
again, please.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I make the motion again.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And do I hear a second?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I'll second it. I brought it forward.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, all in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(No response.)
Page 19
February 9, 2016
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, that -- I think the silence was also
voting yes. So with that, we have a unanimous yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I think there's a saying, in silence
there is consent.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, you have just a couple of minutes
before your 9:30 advertised public hearing. I'm sure 10.B will take
more than that, so perhaps we could try to move one other item quickly
before that.
Item #11D
ENTER INTO A LICENSE AGREEMENT WITH NAPLES
COMMUNITY HOSPITAL, INC. (NCH) FOR THE PURPOSE OF
THE INSTALLATION OF TWO GROUND SIGNS WITHIN
COUNTY ROAD RIGHT-OF-WAY — MOTION TO CONTINUE
AND BRING BACK A POLICY FOR RIGHT-OF-WAY USAGES
AND FEES — FAILED; MOTION TO APPROVE — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: I would suggest maybe Item 11.D, if that pleases the
Board. That was an item that was moved from the consent agenda at
Commissioner Henning's request. It was a recommendation to
approve and enter into a license agreement with Naples Community
Hospital for the purpose of the installation of two ground signs within
county road right-of-way.
Commissioner Henning brought that one forward.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What was the -- how did staff
arrive at the fee of$1,000 for these signs?
MR. OCHS: Mr. Wilkerson is on his way up, sir.
MR. WILKERSON: Good morning, Commissioners. For the
record, David Wilkerson, Growth Management Department Head.
Page 20
February 9, 2016
It's the typical standard right-of-way permit fee.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that's forever? That's a fee
forever?
MR. WILKERSON: There is the ability I believe in the
agreement, the license agreement that's associated with this particular
sign or signs to terminate that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. And what is the purpose
to have -- these are off-premise signs.
MR. WILKERSON: The purpose really is to direct traffic to the
emergency room. That's really the purpose.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: There's no directional --
MR. WILKERSON: Right, there's no arrows, I understand.
They're really --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Clearly advertisement in the
right-of-way. And quite frankly, the property held by government is
just -- we're stewards of that property. We don't own it, the people
own the property. And -- however, we're creating rules to where only a
select few can use the right-of-way for advertising.
And this Board really needs to establish a policy that's fair for all,
for the people, by the people, to use the right-of-way. And we don't
have that. We're telling some people you can't hold up that sign in the
right-of-way. In fact, they're going to Code Enforcement. And others
we allow.
And, you know, I would like to continue this item and have staff
come back with an item, a fee schedule based upon usage for a
right-of-way, or we just don't allow anybody to use a right-of-way, one
or the other. But what we're doing here is not fair of commercial free
speech.
So I'm going to make a motion to continue and direct staff to
bring back a fee resolution for everybody or anybody to use our
right-of-way.
Page 21
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, I have a motion and a second. Any
further discussion?
Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, Commissioner Henning, I
fully support you bringing back this item on use of the right-of-way.
But, you know, when we're having a facility that was constructed for
emergency purposes, I think it's in the public's interest to let everybody
know where it is. I think this just arises to the level of-- yeah, I
understand exactly what you're saying, we don't want, you know,
advertising in the right-of-way, but this is an emergency facility. As
far as I'm concerned, at least that's the way I consider it and I think
most of our citizens consider it that way.
So, you know, I can't support your motion to continue the item. I
believe that we ought to approve this item and then if you want to
come back and discuss further what we should do with signs in the
right-of-ways, I could fully support that. But I can't support just
kicking this down the road. I want to go ahead and make this available
to people.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: If you drive down Collier
Boulevard, you can see the emergency sign on that building a mile
away. So if you say that people can't find it, you know, I'm not sure
that's true. And again, if you look at the backup material, it's not
directing people where to go, it's just advertising in the public's
right-of-way. There's no direction there.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Commissioner Nance is absolutely
correct. I mean, this is for an emergency facility, it isn't -- it goes
directly to public safety. And I agree that continuing this is
inappropriate.
You know, we should make the information as to the location of
Page 22
February 9, 2016
these facilities as readily available as possible and accommodate as
needed. This is not advertising for, as I understand, for any other
reason. And to that extent I agree with Commissioner Nance, this can't
be delayed and shouldn't be. I mean, this is about public safety.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Anyone else? Any other comments?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'll just weigh in too. I know that if I was
on that road and I'm not familiar with the road at all, I wouldn't know
which entrance to turn into. They might have -- I don't know if they
have two or three entrances. And then you have -- and if you're
nervous because you're going to the emergency room, you know, you
need some direction. So that's my opinion.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Absolutely.
So I would like to make a motion --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We already have a motion on the floor.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Oh, forgive me. Forgive me. And
what's the motion that we have on the floor?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: To continue.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And the second, there was a second.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, Commissioner Taylor.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Taylor.
Okay, all in favor of that motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Two.
And opposed, like sign.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
So that's a 3-2 (sic).
Page 23
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I'll make a motion to approve the
item and to support Commissioner Henning's recommendation that
county staff bring back an agenda item to discuss signs in the public
right-of-way.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do I hear a second?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Any comments?
All in favor sig-- oh, Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, that wasn't my
recommendation, to pontificate on an issue that we've been talking
about for a long time. It was direct staff to bring back an item, a fee
resolution for all the people that want to use our right-of-way for
advertising.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: All right, I'll withdraw that from
my motion. I'll just restrict my motion to approval of Item 11.D,
which is to approve the sign.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I revise my second accordingly.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, all in favor signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Opposed.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, that's 3-2.
Item #9A
RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE A RESOLUTION
PROVIDING FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A CONDITIONAL
USE TO ALLOW A CHURCH WITHIN AN ESTATES (E)
Page 24
February 9, 2016
ZONING DISTRICT PURSUANT TO SECTION 2.03.01 .B. 1.C.1
OF THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE
FOR A 4.05± ACRE PROPERTY LOCATED ON THE SOUTH
SIDE OF PINE RIDGE ROAD (C.R. 896), ONE-QUARTER MILE
EAST OF INTERSTATE 75, IN SECTION 17, TOWNSHIP 49
SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA -
MOTION TO APPROVE WITH CCPC STIPULATIONS AND AN
UNDERSTANDING THAT THE CHURCH WILL PROMOTE "NO
ACCESS" TO THE PROPERTY VIA NAPA WOODS WAY AND
NAPLES BOULEVARD BY PARISHIONERS AND VISITORS —
FAILED FOR LACK OF SUPER MAJORITY; COUNTY
ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO PREPARE A RESOLUTION OF
DENIAL 2016-30
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, that takes us to your 9:30 Advertised
Public Hearing. It's Item 9.A. This item was continued from the
January 26th, 2016 BCC meeting.
This is a request to grant a conditional use to allow a church
within the Estates Zoning District. And I'm going to turn to County
Attorney Klatzkow to tell me if there's additional requirement for ex
parte disclosure or swearing in of witnesses, since this is a
continuance.
Jeff?
MR. KLATZKOW: It would be any ex parte communication
between the last time and now, and I would swear in the witnesses
because I believe you've got new ones.
MR. OCHS: So Madam Chair, ex parte disclosure would be
appropriate at this time.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, very good. Do you swear them in
afterwards?
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am, that's fine.
Page 25
February 9, 2016
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, ex parte.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Continue and let me go through
this.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Let me start with Commissioner Taylor.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Meetings with staff, meeting with
residents, a conversation with an interested non-resident but a city
dweller. I think that's it.
I'm sorry, meeting with the petitioner and his counsel also.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Very good.
Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, in addition to my earlier ex
parte communications, I've had additional conversations with staff,
comments from community members and numerous emails.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, and I have had meetings with Rich
Yovanovich and Aaron Lundquist and also with Dr. Leela Bolla. I've
had meetings with staff, in fact a few meetings with staff. Plus the
staff report. And the speaker presentations at the last meeting. And I
think we had like 19 people speaking, so I heard all of those as well.
Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I have received numerous
additional emails. And in addition to the individuals I spoke to earlier
which were Rich Yovanovich and Dorothy Hirsch, I've also spoken to
Derrick Errhars (phonetic).
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes, thank you.
I spoke to staff, received emails from constituents on Napa
Woods Way. I met with Addie Cid.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You know, here I was telling you who I
spoke to, but I also received emails and calls, and I've had these
meetings that I told you about. Thank you.
Page 26
February 9, 2016
Okay, would you like to swear people in, please.
(All speakers were duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Rich?
MR. YOVANOVICH: If I may, some preliminary comments.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Your name, please?
MR. YOVANOVICH: I'm sorry, for the record Rich Yovanovich
on behalf of the petitioner.
Where we left off last time was our response to specific questions
from Commissioners. The public comment had ended. In fact, one of
the members from the public tried to get back up to the podium and I
believe the Chair clearly said we've heard from the public, we're now
at a different portion of the agenda.
We understood what the result of the continuance meant, we
would pick up where we left off, which would be we would be
responding to questions that were asked of us and provide the
information and response to those questions, just like we always do.
I've been involved in several zoning hearings and several
conditional use hearings. I've never seen it where the public comment
has ended and we're responding to questions to where we open it up
again for public comment. I think that it's contrary to the rules you've
established. I don't think we should be required to now rebut
last-minute testimony that should have been in the record already
before we respond to those questions. So I want to note that objection
on the record.
I understand that your County Attorney has advised you that
you're somehow obligated to hear additional public speakers. If that's
the process you're going to take, I respectfully request, one, you note
our objection; and, two, the public comment occur prior to our
presenting our rebuttal. I don't want to do two rebuttals. I was
prepared to address the then public comments, as well as answer the
Commissioners' questions. But I don't want to do that twice. I'd just as
Page 27
February 9, 2016
soon hear everything from the public.
I would object to anybody repeat speaking. They had their
opportunity. If there's a new speaker who hasn't spoken before and
they want to provide testimony, they can, according to your rules, but I
don't believe that people who previously spoke get a second bite at the
apple to speak.
So I just wanted to note that first. I'll proceed however the
Commission wants to go, but if you're going to hear new testimony
from the public, I'd like that to occur before we do our rebuttal.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I always like to hear the speakers first,
even before the Commissioners speak. This way we get the full value
of whatever they have to say to us.
Okay, so --
MR. YOVANOVICH: So what are the rules of the game? Is it if
you previously spoke you don't get to speak again, correct?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Pardon me?
MR. YOVANOVICH: If you previously spoke, you --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You don't need to speak.
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- don't get to speak again, correct?
MR. KLATZKOW: It's going to depend upon how we go here. I
don't know how long questioning to you is going to be. I don't know
how much additional testimony there's going to be. At this point in
time if there's not very much, then anyone who spoke before should
not speak again.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's not clear. Can you state
that? I don't understand what you're saying.
MR. KLATZKOW: The way we traditionally do things is that
the applicant speaks, staff speaks, then the public speaks, Board takes a
vote, generally speaking, all right? I don't know how many questions
this Board has of Mr. Yovanovich at this point in time. If we're going
to be here a half hour, an hour eliciting additional testimony, it's only
Page 28
February 9, 2016
fair that everybody has the ability to respond to that. If we're going to
be --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Who do you mean by everybody?
MR. KLATZKOW: The non-party speakers.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Who have already spoken, or --
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, everybody who wants to speak. If
we're going to be relatively short with this then there's nothing for
them to respond to that's new.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, I think it really should turn
on -- that's very confusing, because I don't believe timing should be the
basis for whether or not someone should be allowed to speak twice on
the public side.
MR. KLATZKOW: I'm sorry, ma'am, but the applicant asked for
the continuance. If the applicant would have taken the vote we
wouldn't be here right now.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Actually I believe I recommended
it.
MR. KLATZKOW: No, you did not. The applicant's the one
who asked for the continuance.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, it doesn't matter who asked
for it, the question is is what the Board's action is.
MR. KLATZKOW: The people are entitled to speak if they
attend the public hearing. What I'm saying is we're going to have an
hour of discussion with the applicant, all right, then the people have a
right to speak to that. If we're going to be here 10 minutes, then
anyone who spoke before had their time.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, with all due respect, I don't plan on
introducing any new testimony. I plan on responding to the questions
that were asked of us by the Commission, which is how it usually
works. You go through -- the staff and I present, public speaks, then
there's questions and answers of the applicant, then the applicant does
Page 29
February 9, 2016
a rebuttal. I plan on doing -- we never -- the public doesn't get back
up.
MR. KLATZKOW: So let's just see how it goes.
MR. YOVANOVICH: So we were going to respond to those
questions.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: How many speakers do we have?
MR. MILLER: I have five registered speakers who did not speak
at the last meeting. I have three additional speakers who registered
who did speak at the previous hearing.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, what do you recommend?
MR. KLATZKOW: I would suggest that you ask Mr.
Yovanovich the questions that you had that were unanswered, and at
that point in time we'll see where we are.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Before we hear the new speakers?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, we can try that then. I usually like
to hear the speakers first because they might bring out a point that Rich
would want to address.
MR. KLATZKOW: He'll have his opportunity to address them.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Okay, so what I'll do is I'll answer the
questions and save my rebuttal until later, assuming that nothing new
is coming in the record, which I don't think anything new is coming
into the record, and we'll go from there, if that's okay.
The two -- I put back on the visualizer kind of where we are as far
as the proposed site plan with the building on it that shows the
extensive native vegetation along Napa Woods Way where the water
management area is, where the parking is and where the access is. I do
that because two of the primary comments that were -- or questions
that were asked of us was one, have the water management aspects
been reviewed by staff? And our response was it's a little early to be
Page 30
February 9, 2016
doing that at zoning but we did have and we had our -- we were ready
to put our engineer on the record when we came back. We did do
detailed calculations as to the water management system that would be
on this property to show that there would be no adverse impacts to the
neighbors as a result of that. We provided that detailed information to
Mr. Wilkinson who's in charge of growth management and the division
that actually reviews that.
I believe -- and if you would like me to put my engineer up I can,
but Mr. Wilkinson has reviewed that information and I believe he can
answer the question as to whether or not there will be an adverse
impact as a result of the water management.
I'll leave it to your -- you seem to prefer to hear from your staff on
those issues versus necessarily my experts, but I can go either way and
respond to that question. So we've done that.
The second major issue, as I classify it, was access to the site and
the question about meeting the 660 distance between the intersection
of the lighted intersection and the access to this site.
In your staff report you have the revised executive summary.
Your staff has basically said they made an error, they made a mistake,
the required distance is not of 660, it's 330. I don't think there's any
question that we are at least 330 feet from the intersection. And in
your own staff report they have analyzed not only is 330 the required
distance, they have also analyzed and provided evidence that it is in
fact safe.
I also have Jeff Perry here who can also testify to those issues,
along with our professional engineers.
Those were the two major questions we were asked when we
came back to discuss, and I believe the record is clear that there's no
adverse impact as a result of water management and there's no adverse
impact as a result of access.
And if you recall, one of the primary witnesses said, they don't
Page 31
February 9, 2016
meet the criteria because they don't meet the access management
policy. We do meet the access management policy.
So that was the only issue in Rich Yovanovich's world of what
was a legitimate concern raised by the public that has since been
clarified by your staff that there is safe and legal access to the property,
consistent with county regulations.
Those are the two primary ones. Tim can answer the rest. I know
another one had to do with the interconnection with Dr. Pena's
property. We do not interconnect with Pena's property because the
Planning Commission and the residents asked us not to. They didn't
want there to be a way for people to use -- I think it's called Napa
Woods, that road where the light is, to get access to the site or to park
at Dr. Pena's property to walk next door. So the interconnection has
been eliminated with Dr. Pena as a result of the requirement of both
the Planning Commission and a request from the neighbors.
Those were the three that I remember off the top of my head.
Tim, were there others? Where did you go? Oh, there you are.
MR. HANCOCK: That's all.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Okay. And if there are others, we're
happy to answer any of those questions. But those are the three.
So I defer to the Commission, do you want me to put my engineer
up to discuss water management or would you prefer to hear from staff
since the concern was we had staff analyze the water management as
well as access?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioners?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Since it was my question, I would
like both. I'd like it on the record from both.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Okay. Andrew?
I'm going to have Mr. Rath give you his credentials briefly, and
then I'll request that you recognize him as an expert in water
management related issues.
Page 32
February 9, 2016
MR. RATH: Hello. Andrew Rath with Davidson Engineering.
I'm a professional engineer registered in the State of Florida, been
practicing engineering here for nine years in Collier County.
So I'm going to start off by giving you a brief summary of the
water management system that is conceptually designed for this site.
This is a conceptual site layout for the proposed site. Currently
the existing site provides no water management. There's no way for
the water to be contained on-site, so it either percolates into the ground
or runs off the site to the adjacent right-of-way or adjacent properties.
That's no controlled discharge, no provided water quality.
The proposed site will convey all the stormwater management
into a retention/detention area which will provide 150 percent of the
required water quality, which is required by South Florida and Collier
County standards.
That will in turn be controlled by a control structure prior to
discharge into the Pine Ridge swale within the right-of-way there. And
that discharge will be controlled by the standards set forth by Collier
County and South Florida. They have maximum allowable discharge
rates, which will be met.
This will all follow Collier County and South Florida standards.
There's no issues with meeting any of the requirements there. It will
be a great improvement to water quality and water quantity from what
exists today.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So do you mind if I ask him --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Go ahead, and then we'll ask I guess our
staff--
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yes, yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- Jerry Kurtz will be here?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Absolutely.
So if I understand correctly, the adjacent neighborhood will not
be adversely affected by any excess drainage off this property, that
Page 33
February 9, 2016
everything will go into the Pine Ridge canal?
MR. RATH: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And that the Pine Ridge canal has
the capacity to absorb the drainage off of this property as being
proposed --
MR. RATH: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- by this development?
MR. RATH: The entire site, the contributory basin will be
bermed off so that it will not allow any discharge out around the
perimeter of the site. It will be sent through a controlled structure and
then piped out to the Pine Ridge right-of-way.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. That's extremely important.
Can staff confirm that?
MR. KURTZ: Good morning. Jerry Kurtz with your Collier
County Stormwater Planning Manager.
Yes, I verified that the pipes in place on Pine Ridge and the flow
path is open. It exists. All the pipes are in place --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And they have the capacity to
absorb the drainage --
MR. KURTZ: Yes, ma'am, they do.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- that's being proposed. Okay.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Now, Rich, did you want to hear from the
speakers?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, ma'am, I think we also need to get
Mr. Perry up for the transportation related issues, as well as staff
confirming those comments, and any other comment, or questions the
Board may have regarding the project.
MR. PERRY: Good morning, Madam Chairman. For the record,
my name is Jeff Perry; I'm a Transportation Planner, Certified
Transportation Planner with Stantec Consulting Services located here
Page 34
February 9, 2016
in Naples. I have about 43 years of experience in land use and
transportation, the last 37 years of which have been with the MPO and
private consulting services.
As I understand, the questions raised by the Board dealt
specifically with the access connection to Pine Ridge. Both the
distance between the intersection of Napa Way and the project
entrance is approximately 420 feet; 480 feet if you add to the actual
right-of-way of Napa Way.
The turn lane length is 185 feet, which is sort of the preliminary
design for that turn lane at this stage of the project, which meets the
FDOT standards for deceleration turn lane lengths for a right turn
deceleration lane.
So the project does in fact meet the access management standards
policy adopted by the Board, which indicates that the minimum
distance of the connection should be 330 feet. We are in fact at least
420 feet, depending on how you measure it. And the turn lane length
is of adequate length, minimum standards to provide access into the
site.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. I had asked staff to give me
an aerial view of that area. Do you have one handy? There we go.
Just so that everybody can see what they're actually talking about and
how far it is from I-75 and from Napa Boulevard and so forth. Just to
give you a bird's eye view.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's actually a good idea.
MR. PERRY: I'm not sure if you can see the smaller dimension.
Right in front of the site says approximately 507 feet. That's measured
from the center line of the Napa Way/Pine Ridge Road intersection.
As I said, depending on where you measure it from. If you measure it
from the eastern edge, it's about 460 feet. If you measure from other
places, it's about 420 feet. So it really depends on where you actually
measure it. But that particular dimension is 507 feet as it's measured to
Page 35
February 9, 2016
the center line of Napa Boulevard.
The distance to the interchange from our driveway is 1,765 feet.
It's to the ramps which are now presently off the screen, but outside the
limited access right-of-way, so the state does not have control or
decision-making authority in the process. They would have anything
-- any access west of Napa Way is within the limited access area
controlled by the state. And of course we're east of Napa Way.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Naples Boulevard, you're east of
Naples Boulevard? What would --
MR. PERRY: Napa Boulevard. We're east to Napa Boulevard.
West of Napa Boulevard towards the interstate is all within the what is
called LA, the limited access area. The state owns that right-of-way.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What would be the traffic
circulation patterns for people ingressing and egressing the property?
MR. PERRY: Those people coming to the site from the west
passing through the I-75 interchange would pass through Napa
Boulevard, turn right into the site. Those coming from the east will be
making a U-turn at Napa Boulevard and coming back to the site. So
there's no median opening in front of the driveway connection. They'll
actually have to make a U-turn at Napa Boulevard coming from the
east heading west, make a U-turn at Napa Boulevard and then enter the
site. Exiting -- those people that were heading back to the east would
simply come out of the site onto Pine Ridge Road and head east.
Those that want to go back west would need to go down to Vineyards
Boulevard and make a U-turn and go back to the west.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: If I recall, there's a left turn
arrow as you're traveling west on Pine Ridge Road for them to make a
U-turn or access the property.
MR. PERRY: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that's a solid red and turns
Page 36
February 9, 2016
green; is that correct?
MR. PERRY: Yes. It's a protected turn so that you have a green
arrow and then that green arrow turns red so the turn lane, which is
about 385 -- stores traffic, stores the cars until it again cycles through
and you get another green arrow.
The intersection at Vineyards Boulevard is a little different. It's
what's called permitted protected where the green arrow turns yellow --
or blinks yellow, I'm not exactly sure how the county does it right now
-- blinking yellow so that you can actually make the left turn north into
Vineyards Boulevard if there's a gap, if there's no oncoming traffic,
you can safely make that move. But I believe this is a protected left
turn here.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: In the resolution it's calling for a
sheriffs deputy to control the traffic, I would imagine exiting the
property?
MR. PERRY: Typically that's where the largest throughput
coming out of the site all sort of occurs at one time. Everybody gets
out of church, gets in their cars and exits the site.
The arrival rate is a little more random. And prior to service
sometimes a half an hour, the peak period right before the service
begins is when people begin to arrive. But yes, deputies frequently --
or state highway patrol frequently on the site. It can be at the
beginning as well as directing traffic, if it's important to direct traffic at
the beginning prior to service, as well as at the end of service, to make
sure that there's adequate gaps and safety issues are dealt with.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The -- yeah, in my opinion, and
tell me if I'm wrong, it's problematic having a traffic control person at
that site leaving service that close to the intersection. In other words, if
the deputy stops the traffic when the light at the intersection -- the
east-west light is about to cycle red, you have potential backup within
the intersection. You see what I mean?
Page 37
February 9, 2016
MR. PERRY: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I don't think it's really necessary
for that certain provisions within the resolution (sic), but it was my
understanding that the Planning Commission made those
recommendations, put that in the resolution; is that correct?
MR. PERRY: I can't tell you if it was a Planning Commission
recommendation or a staff recommendation. I've seen it in a lot of the
church conditional use stipulations, that if it's warranted those kinds of
traffic control measures are ordered up.
It's possible in this particular instance that the deputy or the state
highway patrol officer who's on scene would probably in my opinion
would probably take control of the intersection so that when there's
exiting traffic coming out they would traffic the traffic at the
intersection a little bit longer than the red light and allow -- there's
going to be a gap created, because every time that signal changes
there's a gap created for the existing vehicles. Storage is on-site so it's
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Without somebody there.
MR. PERRY: Without somebody there, that's correct. So there's
not going to any be blockage of traffic on Pine Ridge from exiting
vehicles, they'll be stacking up on-site and then be metered out as the
traffic signal allows for gaps that would be created in the travel stream.
So in this particular instance there might not be need for anyone
to take control of the intersection, it might just be perfectly fine. In
other areas where you have an intersection, for instance on Rattlesnake
Hammock Road at St. Peter's Catholic Church, their access is right at
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I know. When I try to get down
to the boat ramp I stop there all the time, okay.
MR. PERRY: They have access to the signal, so it's a little bit
different story there. But here they're not accessing the signal, there's
Page 38
February 9, 2016
no traffic being generated through that signal directly, you know, down
Napa Way to the site, so it's all coming back around.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay, where -- how did this get
into the resolution?
MR. YOVANOVICH: What has happened is there's kind of been
standard conditions that have been adopted for churches as they've
gone through the process. And I think there's the laundry list of things
that people say should be in all church applications, either by rezone or
by conditional use. This is one of those provisions that was simply
carried forward because that had been in other church applications,
similar to Covenant Presbyterian Church if an issue arose with traffic.
And it only gets triggered if there's a traffic issue, staff has the ability
to require us to have a police officer or sheriffs deputy there to address
traffic if it ever becomes a problem. It's not always required. So it's
been a safeguard that's been included in other applications that got
brought forward, like some of the others that we'll address --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So if it becomes an issue for the
people attending service to get out onto Pine Ridge, that would trigger
having a deputy at that intersection?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Or if it creates a problem for those
wanting -- is that correct, Nick?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Yes.
For the record, Nick Casalanguida.
I'm actually the one that kind of started this a while back, but it's a
backup plan, because we were having these problems with churches.
So it's not required every day, but now you've got a traffic officer there
if they're either backing up onto the road, because that's what happens
sometimes when they start to queue up in the churches. And if there's
no backups either way, then the officer is not required.
But what happened in the past was county staff would end up
having to pay or coordinate a sheriffs deputy and we said that's not fair
Page 39
February 9, 2016
to the public.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. Well, it's not fair to the
public when you have a user of any particular property impede the
flow of traffic to the general public.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: And that's the point of the deputy, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Pardon me?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: The idea was to get them off--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But when I get down to the boat
ramp late because I'm stopping, is that fair?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Well, I guess it's a safety issue, sir.
We don't want a backup to --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: They're there to allow the people
going to that service to get out onto the road.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: It was more than that, sir. It was they
were parking on the road and they were backing into the right-of-way
and so a deputy would say you can't park there, you can't be here,
you've got to move along. There were sites that were backed up --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That isn't what's in the
resolution.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: I'll look at it, sir, but its intent is traffic
control and safety. The intent is to make sure the site is safe and if
there is a problem --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And again, I mean, you have
transportation experts here. You have an entrance from Naples
Boulevard how many feet, 500 feet? Is it going to impede the general
flow of traffic? And the concern is so close to the traffic light. I need
to hear from our staff on that.
MR. WILKERSON: Commissioners, David Wilkinson, Growth
Management Department Head.
The actual condition reads: For church services and other events
generating significant traffic, the property owner shall provide traffic
Page 40
February 9, 2016
control by law enforcement or law enforcement approved service
provider when warranted as direct by Collier County Transportation
staff.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right. So if there's a problem
with people coming out of service getting onto Pine Ridge Road, that
would warrant a traffic cop out there.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: No, sir, it's -- just to be clear, they can
wait internally. We're never worried about that. The intent was never
to get them out. That's not a safe issue having someone wait up in the
site. It was entering or if they're backing up as they're coming in, the
officer would say move along, you're backing up traffic. So it's not to
get them out faster.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. It's not like what happens
at St. Peter's then.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: I can't -- I'll have to go to St. Peter's
and take a look.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Take your boat down there.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: He's right. He's right.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I'm glad they're that busy;
however, the public's -- that road is a public road and enjoyed by
everybody.
You know, it's my observation of when you have a traffic control
officer out there on any church, they will stop the general public to let
the parishioners or the people go -- or people that attend that service
get out into the public right-of-way.
So if the intent is one thing, then you may want to take a look at
that.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The requirement for buffering, if
we could go back to the site plan. There is a residence to the east.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Immediately to the east?
Page 41
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, immediate to the east.
What's the proposed buffering for that?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: There isn't any.
MR. HANCOCK: For the record, Tim Hancock, Planner with
Stantec.
The buffer along the eastern side -- and I want to make sure I get
this correct -- is a 15-foot Type B landscape buffer. And the condition
that is included within the stipulations you have before you is to
include a six-foot privacy wall along the entire eastern border within
that buffer, extending as far back as the rear building setback.
We had discussions with the adjacent property owner. He really
didn't want a wall. He would have been happier with a vegetative
screen. However, at the Planning Commission it was stated that there
have been problems in the past where they may have wished they had
a wall and so we were asked to go with the six-foot privacy wall along
that side, which we have.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What's the buffering to the
south? I already know the distance, but what kind of physical
plantings or structure is going to be put there?
MR. HANCOCK: Well, to the south we've got basically two
levels of buffering, one which is entirely within the control of Collier
County.
Within the right-of-way, which is a very, very wide right-of-way,
100 feet there, there's approximately 50 feet of existing native
vegetation. It's pines, it's palmetto, it's fairly thick, fairly dense in there
before you ever get to our property line.
Once you get to our proper line there will be a minimum 45-foot
width of that same existing native vegetation. So the vegetative
community is fairly consistent there for somewhere between 90 and
100 feet from the edge of the right-of-way.
We have also agreed, because we are referenced by the Planning
Page 42
February 9, 2016
Commission to a previous approval made by this Board where a
commercial property was going in along a street that was residential to
the rear in the Estates, and they added additional plantings within that
preserve area. We were channeled to that as an example. We took that
as an example, put it into the stipulations before you today.
So in addition to that nearly 100 foot of native fairly heavily
vegetated buffer area we also will be planting a buffer of a variety of
types of material that will achieve 80 percent opacity within one year
of planting and an eight-foot height.
So in addition to the natives what you're going to see is you're
going to see a planting plan that basically screens the back of this even
further. So within one year in an eight-foot height it's difficult if not
impossible to see through.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, the issue of traffic
management is a question that I had in my mind as well.
You know, I live in a community that has -- it's a residential
community that has a church directly abutting homes similar to this on
the one side, and on the other side of the neighborhood I have a church
across the street where in both instances traffic management has been
an issue which has been a non-issue. And I don't mean that it's been a
negative issue.
The one thing I want to ensure is that the police officer that is
doing traffic management is in fact an on-duty officer. Because I don't
see a private duty officer able to take control of a public road and start
directing traffic. I think that would be problematic. You know, that
would be equivalent to me standing out there and saying okay, you go
and you stay, just in the middle of, you know, Pine Ridge and 41.
Which I think sounds like fun, but not exactly what I envisioned as in
the best interest of the public safety.
Page 43
February 9, 2016
MR. YOVANOVICH: I'm assuming what you mean is an actual
sheriffs deputy --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right.
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- or actual police officer.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right, not an off-duty deputy but
in other words someone who legally is authorized by state law to
manage traffic in a public road.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I'm assuming an off-duty officer would
probably be more preferential because you wouldn't want that person
to be called away --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I don't know how it works because
-- I don't agree with you because I think that patrol has the ability to
dictate that an officer be at a location and stay at that location. I mean,
I see traffic control officers take over, for example when lights go
down at major intersections and, you know, they're directed, you
know, you stay and you manage traffic until the lights are resumed.
And I say that because I want -- with respect to that provision, I
think it needs to be clear that, you know, this is someone who is legally
permitted to direct traffic and not someone off-duty on the church's
payroll, but someone actively engaged in, you know, public safety
traffic management under the Sheriff.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Why don't we -- why don't you make the
condition conditioned upon -- the Sheriff needs to tell us who's the
right person.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right. That's fine. I don't have a
problem with that, but I do think that condition needs to be introduced
because, you know, these are public roads and I don't see how, you
know, someone who's an off-duty cop who is in effect a civilian when
he's being hired by the church --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah, I understand. For example, the one
north of-- North Naples Church, they're no longer North Naples
Page 44
February 9, 2016
Methodist Church, they're North Naples Churchill --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right. Which is a Methodist
church.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I understand. But I believe that those
police officers are in fact off-duty and they have the legal authority to
manage traffic. So that's what --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And if they have the legal authority
to manage traffic within a public road, and I don't understand how, but
if they do, that's fine. But I just want assurances. Because it's an issue
that doesn't just go to this project, it goes to North Naples, it goes to
Covenant, it goes to so many churches.
And the situation we have at North Naples is identical to this one
and that is, you know, we have people coming out of that church and a
traffic light within close proximity to the egress point. And yes, they
do manage traffic and they're deferential to both parties because as
much as the public has a right to use the road, these people exiting that
property are also the public. So, I mean, it's a balancing act and I
understand it.
But I do want to make sure that we don't have who is in effect a
civilian managing traffic in a public road.
MR. YOVANOVICH: We'll make sure somebody who's legally
authorized to manage traffic --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: In a public road, right.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Understand.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And I think that's extremely
important from a public safety standpoint.
And I'm equally concerned about the buffering, and I'm glad that
you raised that, Commissioner Henning, because I think it's absolutely
essential that the buffering be such that, you know, there is no visibility
to the neighbors.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, we were talking about -- I'll just
Page 45
February 9, 2016
take a turn here, I don't have anybody else's light right now. You
talked about a privacy wall? What's the difference between a privacy
wall and a sound wall?
MR. HANCOCK: Again, for the record, Tim Hancock.
They are in essence the same. A privacy wall basically means
solid construction. It can be a masonry block, it can be a Wood-Crete.
What it cannot be is a slatted type fence for visual or noise penetration.
So when we say -- you know, when you say a solid wall and a noise
wall, they in effect serve the same purpose.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do they actually serve the same purpose?
I'm asking that because I'm just dealing with another church and the
church, it's wonderful that they're so busy, it really is. I love seeing all
of that, and people coming back to church, which they should.
This church handles a few nationalities, and so they have their
separate services and they celebrate in different ways. And some like
drums and everything, but for some reason these things get outside and
they celebrate out in the parking lots and now this church wants some
expansion and they only want to build a wood fence. And I don't think
that that's appropriate. But anyway, I'm just talking to you about that.
I just wanted to make sure that there's actually a sound wall there so in
case there is a lot of music and joyful singing and so forth that there is
a sound wall there.
MR. HANCOCK: In addition, if you'll note in the stipulations
contained in Exhibit C in your packet, in addition to a noise wall, I will
tell you there's a far greater level of noise dampening and sound
control built into the stipulations before you today. Because a wall that
is 50 or 75 feet away will have some effect. The greatest effect is
having noise and sound containment close to the source.
So within that it states that the building shall be constructed with
materials designed to provide sound dampening in order to avoid
sound from inside the church being heard outside the church.
Page 46
February 9, 2016
We also have a prohibition on the playing of music outdoors, and
we have limited the through wall penetrations to the rear, meaning
doors, as to only those that are required by fire code. Plus, not that I've
seen too many operable windows in churches these days, but windows
and doors must be closed during all services. Those conditions are
within the resolution that's before you today. And in 25 years of doing
this, Commissioner Fiala, those are some of the strictest conditions I've
seen on noise for any church.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Hiller and then let's hear
from our speakers.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And that's what I wanted to
comment to.
With respect to the public speakers, there was mention at the last
hearing that one of the speakers had claimed that the County Attorney's
Office had not provided the information on the process, and I want to
make sure that the County Attorney's Office has provided the public
with the process, that they understand that, you know, they have to
present evidence in rebuttal and it's not just opinion, that these are not
subjective determinations and so forth. You know, if they want to
bring experts, they can put forth experts and that they completely
comprehend.
MR. KLATZKOW: We fixed that condition.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Great. So that's being taken care
of. I wanted to make sure that that's the case.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Troy, would you like to call our
speakers?
MR. KLATZKOW: I'd recommend just no speakers.
MR. MILLER: Your first speaker is Jason Andes. He'll be
followed by Keith Monk.
MR. ANDES: Good morning, everybody. My name is Jason
Andes and I'm a resident of Napa Woods Way. We're all here to
Page 47
February 9, 2016
determine if a 400-seat church is a good fit or not for our
neighborhood. If you ask any resident on our street whether or not
they think it should be allowed, you'll be answered with a very strong
no. Reasons why vary from increased traffic to lowering the quality of
life in our neighborhood.
According to the GMP or the Growth Management Plan Policy
5.4 of the Future Land Use Element requires developments to be
compatible and complimentary to the surrounding land uses.
First of all, this project is too ambitious for the low density
Estates area, and this project does not reasonably transition from the
existing medical plaza next door.
Second of all, a transitional use is supposed to be a step down
from an existing non-residential structure. In this case the existing
medical plaza to the west of the property has two small pitched roofs
under 5,500 square feet of air and a parking lot designed for around 60
cars. To the east of the proposed project is a small 1,200 square foot
residence that will be overshadowed and out of place. Section 10.0800
states: Conditional uses should promote the public health, safety,
morals, order, comfort and convenience of the neighborhood.
If you asked any -- if you asked the opinion of the neighborhood,
none of this would take place with this project. Due to this, the
residents of Napa Woods Way oppose any structure other than a
residential home to be used on this land.
Zone creep is a major concern in our neighborhood, since it
places undue stress on the residents and the future of the
neighborhood. The quality of life will be jeopardized by increased
traffic and the noise pollution with the potential 24/7 usage of the
facility.
On Page 8, Section 3 of the staff report it acknowledges that the
surrounding properties will experience increased noise which
ultimately translates to an additional burden that the neighborhood will
Page 48
February 9, 2016
need to accept if this project is approved.
Our neighborhood is a quiet place, filled with children, working
folks and retirees. We look forward to walking and jogging and biking
on the street throughout the week. Unfortunately this entire project
only offers a direct conflict with the quality of life on Napa Woods
Way. Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Keith Monk and he'll be
followed by Gary Grosser.
MR. MONK: I've lived on Napa Woods Way for --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Your name, sir, for the record?
MR. MILLER: State your name, sir.
MR. MONK: Oh, Keith Monk. I've lived on Napa Woods Way
for 29 years. I was at this same room when the Pena property was
approved. And at that meeting we were promised that that property
would be the last of transitional use.
I realize legally that -- now I realize. Of course then we had no
way of knowing that what the Commissioners promised is not legally
binding, but back then we assumed that it was done, there's going to be
no more creep of commercial property down our street. So that's point
number one. I think that the spirit of that decision -- I think the
decision was correct, there should be no more, and I think the spirit of
that decision should be upheld in this chamber.
The second point I'd like to make is when I'm driving somewhere
I count the traffic lights to get there. And if you're coming from the
east to the church, I would not go and go through two lights and a
U-turn to get into the church, I'd go through one light, turn down Napa
Woods Way and then go in doing right turns. And I believe a high
percentage of people going into this church will choose a one-light
option and a couple of right turns on quiet streets. And obviously our
street already has speed bumps because the street's already being used
as a cut-through.
Page 49
February 9, 2016
So I'm not an expert witness and I can't give you statistics. I can
tell you I've lived on the road for 29 years and people use it as a
cut-through. And the reason we have speed bumps is because of that.
Because we have no sidewalks, people are on the street, there's a lot of
families there.
So the reality of it is people are going to use the street to access
the church because it's going to be quicker for them and people want to
go the quickest way.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Gary Grosser. He'll be
followed by Shirley Ruter.
MR. GROSSER: Good morning. For the record, Gary Grosser.
I live in Napa Woods Way. And in response to Commissioner Hiller's
question about law enforcement control, just so that you understand it,
I am a retired chief of police, spending 30 years in Lee County. And
an officer is an officer 24 hours a day, seven days a week, on duty or
off. And the comment you made would put the Sheriff in a position
where he would have to have publicly paid officers providing traffic
service instead of the private enterprise. That's the equivalent of
saying if Sears wants extra security personnel, they just call an officer
and have him come by and work it and the public pays for it. So that
would keep you from him having an officer on duty handle those
traffic controls.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's interesting you say that,
because what our Sheriff does, as I understand, if additional patrol is
desired by a neighborhood, the community actually pays extra for that
supplemental support so the rest of the public isn't burdened.
MR. GROSSER: And with that same thought pattern, that is
what is handled in each of the church situations and each of the private
enterprise situations where extra law enforcement is required.
Getting to my points, not to take up additional time but to
Page 50
February 9, 2016
reiterate some of the things that have been said already, my concern is
one of commercial creep. And going back to the Pena process back in
1998, we were told that this would be the very last stand. And as a
matter of irony, the individual that required that the Pena project be
approved as a land stand effort is one of the people that is promoting
the project for Summit Church.
And one of the things that we don't want to do is wake up one
morning and find a strip mall on the other side of the street next to
churches and medical centers and other things of that nature. That is a
residential community. Providing approval of this project will change
the character and integrity of our neighborhood. We do not want that
to happen. It is not a matter of whether it's a church or whether it's a
gas station, it's a matter of the integrity of our community. That's
what's most important to us.
We've got children on that street, we've got people that have
placed a lot of their investment into their properties; they purchased it
as residential, expecting it to remain so. And that is the point that I
would like to make.
I appreciate your time. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Shirley Ruter. She'll be
followed by Emil Hirsch.
MS. RUTER: Hello, I'm Shirley Ruter. And frankly, I'm kind of
shocked I'm even standing up here. I was part of the community that
was against the Pena project. And one of the reasons we ended up
supporting it is because we were assured this wouldn't happen again.
We were assured that no residential house would ever be built on that
lot because it was a very awkward lot. And part of the definition of
being transitional for that piece of property happened to be nobody will
put a house there.
So now again the same person who was our Commissioner and
supported us at the time is now of course on the other end. But that's
Page 51
February 9, 2016
okay.
But anyway, so now we're looking at this project and we're
looking at a four-acre piece of property that is now going to become
four acres of cement. We're looking at somebody who has agreed and
wants to buy the property and make it residential. So we're looking at
why are we even up here doing this when environmentally, for the
needs of the community, for the safety of Pine Ridge, for the traffic
patterns, we can sit here and say well, you know, we're putting it on
Pine Ridge Road because we really want to help you.
Napa Woods Way is a very small street and does not handle
traffic. We have two churches, okay. So Sunday and Wednesday are
our big days, and they both meet. So 200 cars will be coming this way
and 200 cars will be coming this way. And then we'll all be trying to
get on Pine Ridge. I go to work Wednesday nights, I have to wait in
line. Just like you with your boat, well, I have to wait to go to work
because the traffic is terrible.
I totally agree with Mr. Monk that nobody makes a U-turn on
Pine Ridge Road. It's very dangerous. So what they're going to do is
they're going to come east, they're going to turn on Logan and they're
going to go down Napa Woods Way.
Currently on Sunday mornings, I walk every morning on Sunday,
and there's no speed bumps from Napa Woods Way down to the other
church. So I cannot tell you how many people are late for church and
they gun it. So they go tearing down the street and I frankly feel like
sometimes I'm going to be killed, but I'm still here.
So I urge you, why are we even doing this? Keep it residential.
People want to buy that property, they want to keep it residential. It
makes Pine Ridge safer, it's better for the environment. We have a
Blue Zone initiative in our community, it will keep us our Blue Zone.
Why are we doing this? Keep promises? I mean, I think that's why
American people are sick of government. I mean, does anybody count
Page 52
February 9, 2016
anymore? I mean, do promises count?
One other thing I wanted to say that I'm kind of confused about, is
when we go through the Planning Commission some of the things
include limited hours of access, not renting to other people and not
having meetings of sex addicts. So I want to say that now that we find
out, well now that it's gone through the Commission, well, does that
really count anymore, or was that just a joke?
So I'm kind of questioning, does it mean that once it's approved
we can have as many meetings there as we want, we can have as many
hours of operation as we want and we can rent it to anybody I want.
Now, on my property if I go to rent to Acme Electric or if I'm
going to rent I'm sure you will stop me. So I'm confused. Why are we
here? Keep it residential. Less harm to Collier County, you'll get tax
money, we'll be happy, we'll have a nice house there, and Summit
Church can go somewhere else. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Madam Chair, your final new speaker for this
item is Emil Hirsch.
MR. HIRSCH: Yeah, I'm Emil Hirsch, and I am a patient of Dr.
Bolla. And I visit her at her home quite often. And I just -- and she
asked me to tell you what happens when I leave the home.
If it's in the evening and I come to Pine Ridge Road, there's a few
cars ahead of me, it backs up. If there's rain or anything else like that,
it gets very dangerous.
In addition to that, if I can't see what's coming because of big
growth, that's true throughout Naples, incidentally, you can't see
around the corner, then you can't see traffic coming or pedestrians
coming or bicycle coming or anything else like that.
I'm concerned that in the -- if there's evening use of the church, if
the church expands, that the traffic, the cars will back up onto the
street. Eventually they will not be able to park in the area that the
church provides. And that will just proliferate not only the dangers but
Page 53
February 9, 2016
the problems that happen throughout the neighborhood as the traffic
and people of all kinds and younger people and older people and
people want to get away fast so they go around.
And I'm just saying that I'm very concerned that the traffic here is
going to be overwhelming once the church is there and once the
activities that a church does and the programs that they do now to
attract youth just requires more people, more cars than to me would
seem reasonable to have. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's all of our speakers?
MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, I have -- did you want to rebut
anything?
MR. YOVANOVICH: I do want to address a few comments, but
if there are any more questions, I'd like to take those first.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, I've got two Commissioners here
waiting in line. So the first one was Commissioner Hiller.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: The first question that I have, and
this is a question for staff, is the public raised a concern with
conformity with the Growth Management Plan regarding comparable
and complimentary uses.
Have you made the determination that this change in use is
consistent with the GMP? And if so, how? I mean, I know the
answer, but I'd like it for the record.
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Director of Planning and Zoning.
The analysis was done both at the Growth Management Plan and
the Land Development Code. The Growth Management Plan is
governed by the Golden Gate Area Master Plan.
I think a lot of the term utilization today kind of leads to some of
the maybe misunderstanding.
When the medical office to the west was zoned commercial, it
created the opportunity for transition within the Golden Gate Area
Page 54
February 9, 2016
Master Plan, and that transition is for not commercial. Because a
church is not considered a commercial property, it's considered an
institutional property. An institutional property is something that's
named by the Golden Gate Area Master Plan as appropriate for
transition.
At that time, in '98, if they wanted to eliminate this opportunity
for this property, they would have had to designate this property not
eligible for transitional use, as prescribed by the Golden Gate Area
Master Plan. Therefore that's how it's gained its consistency with the
Golden Gate Area Master Plan at the GMP level.
And in terms of compatibility analysis, it's done at the Land
Development Code level, at the zoning level.
Because of the orientation of this property directly onto Pine
Ridge Road, which is a collector road of high volume capacity, the
buffering and the separation between the local street and the additional
landscape buffering, the applicant had indicated, the numerous
conditions imposed from staff, from Planning Commission and also
volunteered by the applicant for a noise reduction, for a program
reduction, for limitations, all those components we believe lead to an
ability for -- to isolate the impact upon the neighborhood.
And just from a side note, one of the things from a planning
perspective, those institutional uses, the schools, the churches, those
are uses that normally are associated with residential land uses, with
neighborhoods.
Now, this church is definitely being isolated from this
neighborhood and I think it's based upon the concerns of the
neighborhood. But from a planning perspective churches and schools
are normally things that are community focal points within
neighborhoods. This church, because of its location on a collector
road, has focused its attention and its intensity towards that collector
road, and we think that the design components that are imposed by the
Page 55
February 9, 2016
resolutions allow for that compatibility determination.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And to confirm, the restrictions
imposed by the Planning Commission have been adopted by the
petitioner and are included in what we're considering before us today,
specifically that the hours of the meetings will be limited, that the
nature of the meetings will be limited, and who they can rent the
facility to beyond that.
MR. BOSI: All those concerns are incorporated within the
resolution. So if this moved forward, those resolutions and those
conditions are still imposed and they do not go away, they will run
with the use of the property.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Which is one of the other concerns
that the public raised.
One of the concerns I had that I talked to Mr. Yovanovich about
was using Napa Woods as a means to gain access to the church as
opposed to doing what you're -- the traffic engineer from Stantec had
described as strictly U-turns on Pine Ridge Road.
And I want to ensure that that was also incorporated. Because
with a church that abuts the neighborhood I live in with the
Presbyterian Church, Coventry -- what is it? Covenant. I always say
Coventry -- that Covenant, the Board restricted use of the residential
roads to gain access to the church that the neighborhood could not be
used as a cut-through. We also did that with Naples Equestrian
Challenge, as another example. And I want to ensure that that is
incorporated in any decision if a decision were to be made today.
Because I would be concerned if-- I said Napa Woods. But I
would say both Napa Boulevard and Napa Woods Way could not be
used by church traffic for ingress and egress to the project, that ingress
and egress is contemplated to be only off of Pine Ridge Road to
preserve the, you know, use of those roads to what was intended for
that residential community. Yeah.
Page 56
February 9, 2016
MR. YOVANOVICH: Is it appropriate for me to respond?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Okay. And I'm intimately familiar with
the Pine Ridge community and Covenant Presbyterian Church, one,
because I did the petition, and two, I live in Pine Ridge. I can tell you
that the members of that church have respected that wish about not
using Pine Ridge community as access to that church. And the
neighborhood that had the very same concerns about access through
the neighborhood have not in fact become an issue, although they
thought it would become an issue. So I'm sure we can tell the
members of our church do not use --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But I think it needs to be
incorporated.
MR. YOVANOVICH: That's fine. We can do that.
And what I wanted to point out is I didn't ask them all to speak,
but I would like the members of the church that are here today taking
time out of their schedule also because it's important to them, they're
mostly younger people who are taking time off. I see my contractor's
here so I know he's taking time off to be here. But if they could raise
their hands -- and I'm sure these are good people, people from the
church that are here. They are going to respect the neighborhood and
the wishes of the neighborhood that they not drive through the
neighborhood to get there. We could put that in the resolution. But I
can assure you from their own conscience they will not do that and we
will address situations if they do arise regarding the access through the
neighborhood to --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You should just put it in the
resolution and then it eliminates any discussion --
MR. YOVANOVICH: We would be happy to.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And there are people who may not
know that it's a concern of the neighborhood that, you know, that not
Page 57
February 9, 2016
happen. And so while I appreciate the people here are sensitive, but
someone else might not realize.
MR. YOVANOVICH: We will make sure that the people --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you.
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- who attend the church --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And that it's part of the resolution.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mike, I received correspondence
on the application and the criteria set forth under the Growth
Management Plan/Land Development Code. And this gentleman
brought up the Future Land Use Element within the Growth
Management Plan.
Does the Future Land Use Element apply to this particular use in
this particular property?
MR. BOSI: That component which you referenced, 5.4, which is
related to compatibility, it most certainly does. And the staff has
performed that compatibility analysis. That's all the conditions -- or
the review was based upon that specific compatibility aspect.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that's in a report? Because
I didn't see that. I do see where under the Land Development Code
Section 10 that the Planning Commission makes that finding of the
impact on the neighborhood.
MR. BOSI: One of the components -- the policy of 5.4 says
compatibility analysis. One of the many detailed reviews that go
within a rezoning or conditional use process is underneath that larger
premise, that larger policy of compatibility. So we talk about noise,
light, egress, intensity. All those things are specifically analyzed
underneath that policy.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay, when you're analyzing the
5.4 of the Future Land Use Map -- or Future Land Use Element, I'm
sorry, do you take under consideration the Growth Management Plan
Page 58
February 9, 2016
and the conditions laid out for that transitional conditional?
MR. BOSI: We look to the Growth Management Plan for the
allowance of the proposed use, and that's where that transitional
provision within the Golden Gate Area Master Plan was analyzed.
And it did give -- and it's kind of a red-green, a no or no-go, and it does
allow for this use to be requested. It doesn't require approval, but it
does allow for an applicant to make a request for a specific limited
number of uses, a family care facility, daycare facilities, churches,
those type of institutional uses, that are normally customarily
associated and have a benefit and a relationship to residential
communities.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Did the Planning Commission
make the determination whether it's compatible or not?
MR. BOSI: As part of the conditional use analysis the planning
commissions have to make a recommendation of compatibility, and
that was the number of the additional conditions of approval were
based upon their concerns of compatibility, and those conditions of
approval were levied against the project to ensure compatibility.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: My understanding of the Golden
Gate Area Master Plan, you can only consider a conditional use
adjacent to commercial, whether it be east of Collier Boulevard or
whether it be west of Collier Boulevard. What are the conditions on
properties not within the Golden Gate Area Master Plan?
MR. BOSI: Well, properties that are not within the Golden Gate
Area Master Plan would look to the Future Land Use Element map and
see what individual subdistrict they would be in, whether they would
be in the urban residential subdistrict or some of the other smaller
specialized subdistricts, and those would have the controlling land use
suggestions and allowances that would provide for what could be
sought within the zoning stage.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. There was a comment
Page 59
February 9, 2016
about Fred Reischl's comment at the November Planning Commission
meeting.
Fred, I forwarded those to you.
MR. REISCHL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And the comment was staff
hasn't analyzed the changes to their petition.
MR. REISCHL: Correct. Fred Reischl with Zoning Division.
That was at the second half of the Planning Commission. The
Planning Commission held one meeting in September. It was
continued until November so they could review some of the
suggestions that the Planning Commission had made.
And during the meeting I put out the disclaimer that we were
seeing this at the same time as the Planning Commission had seen it
because we didn't get a chance to review it. I went on to state that
from what was stated on the record by the applicant it appeared that the
changes included increased buffering and a reduced footprint of the
building, and if that was the case that we continue to support the
application.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. So nothing really has
changed except for --
MR. REISCHL: Not since you've seen it. Since that second
Planning Commission meeting 'til the BCC's review, no, nothing has
changed.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. And you can support it
because it's not an intensity of use?
MR. REISCHL: Well, we believe that it meets the locational
criteria and that the conditions placed on it by staff and by the Planning
Commission make it the least intrusive on the neighborhood.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Mr. Reischl, you said it meets --
Page 60
February 9, 2016
you can support i
y pp it because it meets what?
MR. REISCHL: The locational criteria within the Golden Gate
Area Master Plan.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Which means what? What is that
locational criteria?
MR. REISCHL: It qualifies as a transitional conditional use.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Because of the use as a church; is
that correct?
MR. REISCHL: As a church adjacent to commercial.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay. And when was the criteria
for the Golden Gate Master Plan created? What date?
MR. REISCHL: David Weeks is here to answer that.
MR. WEEKS: Good morning, Commissioners. David Weeks of
the Comprehensive Planning Section.
The Golden Gate Area Master Plan was adopted in 1991, and
upon its adoption it included a transitional conditional use provision
that is relevant today. That provision has been amended over time, but
the basic criteria that was in place in '91 still exists.
So to offer additional information, had this petition had been
submitted immediately after the adjacent commercial property was
zoned, where Dr. Pena's office is at, the subject site would have met
the criteria at that time.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: But it's my understanding that the
Commissioner seated at this time basically said that was it, this was it,
that the commercial was the -- what I'm reading is the commercial was
across the street with the shopping center that is yet to be built and
therefore the transitional was Dr. Pena's property and the rest should be
residential.
And it's my understanding that that same Commissioner, who
happens to be seated here today in the front row at the end, also said
that the -- this was the only way he was going to pass this. And this
Page 61
February 9, 2016
was a very, very strong statement. In fact, reading the minutes, other
commissioners agreed with him and were very concerned about the
residential quality of that neighborhood and the fact that nothing else
should be there but residential.
The way I look at this, it looks like 25 years ago in 1991 this
government decided what a church was going to be and what it was
going to look like and put it into their Comprehensive Plan, if I'm
correct. And this is not, you know, asking you, sir, or putting you on
the spot. But I dare say in a quarter of a century churches have
changed.
MR. WEEKS: May I respond?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes.
MR. WEEKS: This provision in the Golden Gate Area Master
Plan is not an absolute in the sense that pick any location that's
adjacent to certain nonresidential uses, be it commercial, next to a fire
station, police station, if the other criteria met and it had to do with size
and a few other things, that automatically that petition would be
approved. That simply means that it was a general determination that
properties that are next to these certain nonresidential uses are
generally deemed not appropriate for residential development,
therefore could qualify for the transitional conditional use. And that
simply means a conditional use allowed in the E Estates zoning
district, such as church, childcare, private school, nursing home,
social/fraternal organization, might be a couple others, but still subject
to the conditional use process, which of course is what you're
deliberating upon today.
So the zoning criteria -- so even you could even perhaps put a
checkmark by the Golden Gate Area Master Plan provision that yes,
this petition is consistent with the Golden Gate Master Plan, you still
have the various zoning criteria to consider. And amongst those are
compatibility considerations.
Page 62
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you.
MR. WEEKS: So again, it's a general, but it's not an absolute just
because you're there you're good.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And I think I'd like to speak to
our traffic engineer, I guess Mike? Ours.
MR. SAWYER: For the record, Mike Sawyer, Transportation
Planning.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Sawyer.
Is there anything to prohibit what was testified by some of the
residents that folks coming from the east would not turn down Logan
and then head I believe it is further east on Napa and then come around
that way? Is there anything that's prohibiting that currently now?
MR. SAWYER: There isn't anything in the resolution that
prohibits anybody from doing that. It's certainly a possibility that
traffic could be coming from that direction. They would still wind up
having to come down obviously Napa Boulevard, turning right and
then going right again into the property.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you. Thank you very
much.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Our court reporter is starting to suffer with
cramped hands. I would ask, we've got three more people that want to
speak, but 10 minutes we'll go on a break just so we can get her
working and then we'll be back. Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I'm finished, so thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah, I knew you were finished. I
wouldn't have interrupted you.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: All right.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Can I respond to some of the questions
from --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Pardon me?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I wasn't asking you, Mr.
Page 63
February 9, 2016
Yovanovich, I was asking staff. Thank you, though.
MR. YOVANOVICH: So you're not interested in the petitioner's
answers?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, sir, I think you have a
moment to respond but not right not this moment, thank you.
MR. OCHS: You'll break until 11 :01.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We'll be back at 11 :01.
(Recess.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Would you please take your seats.
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you very much. We have some
Commissioners that would like to ask some more questions.
Commissioner Nance, you're first up.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, to Commissioner Henning's
point, throughout the Estates everywhere that we have convenience
commercial, you know, we have these parcels that are eligible for
transitional conditional use and, you know, the hope going forward and
I think it's true and I think a number of people have said that the way
churches are used today is not the way they were conceived back then.
And, you know, we have some of those challenges going forward with
our Growth Management Plan review to make -- to bring things
current and make sure that things are indeed compatible and that we
get the very best transitional conditional uses.
I think the process that this has gone through is an example on
how efforts can be made by the petitioner and by staff to adapt those
conditional transitional uses to make them as compatible as they can
possibly be.
And, you know, going forward, I think some of the elements that
we've discussed in the last several days on this, which we've done quite
a bit of talking, are some of the ones that need to be incorporated into
the new update of the LDC and the Growth Management Plan.
Page 64
February 9, 2016
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, another correspondence I
received, we receive environmental study of Summit's application.
And I guess there was a independent review of probably would be the
native vegetation or whether there's wetlands in there. So the question
is has staff reviewed that?
MR. REISCHL: Fred Reischl.
Yes, our environmental section did review the assessment that
was provided to us.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And does it comply to law?
MR. REISCHL: The staff approved the petition, so without
going into a lot of detail on it, yes, they -- our reviewers believe it
complies with the LDC.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. They review the native
vegetation retention and also wetland vegetation?
MR. REISCHL: Right. There's a hierarchy of the criteria as to
where the preserve will go. I'm somewhat familiar with the site and it
basically is Pine Ridge --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Here's Steve Lenberger.
MR. REISCHL: Here's Steve. Thanks.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Good morning.
MR. LENBERGER: Good morning. For the record, Steve
Lenberger, Engineering/Natural Research Department.
What exactly was your question, Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, the citizens or somebody
wanted to hire an expert on environmental review of the project to see
if it complied with -- I would assume complied with our laws. Has that
review taken place?
MR. LENBERGER: Yes. Environmental staff have reviewed
the petition. I reviewed the petition.
Page 65
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Does it comply with our
laws?
MR. LENBERGER: Yes, it does.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. All right. Well, I'm not
sure if I'm missing some of the questions. I know there's -- about the
applicability of our rules. I know there's a lot of assumption and
statements. But if it meets our rules and it is already deemed
compatible by the Growth Management Plan that a conditional use can
be located next to, adjacent to an existing commercial and there is no
house been built on that piece of property, I'm not sure if that's saying
that it's not suitable for residential, it's just a coincidence that nobody
has built on that piece of property a single-family home. Okay? So I
don't see where we can deny it based upon it meets the criteria under
our law.
Now, as far as the comments what happened in '98 or somewhere
around there is maybe that particular commissioner or commissioners
was not aware of the provision within the Growth Management Plan
that conditional uses can be allowed next to, adjacent to commercial. I
don't know. I wasn't there. However, I did read the minutes of that
meeting and it was well stated that we can't tie the hands of future
boards. All right? And, you know, to put a church on a neighborhood
roadway, I don't think that was the intent of the Growth Management
Plan. The intent, as I read it and it has been developed over the years,
is these conditional uses shall be located on an arterial roadway or
collector roadway. That's the way the Golden Gate Area Master Plan
is laid out that I understand.
Okay, so I don't have any more questions. I'm going to make a
motion to approve. And include within the resolution the Planning
Commission's stipulations, and that the church will promote no access
to Napa Woods Way, Naples Boulevard, by the members and its
visitors.
Page 66
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'll second it. I'll second it,
Commissioner Henning.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I've got a second.
Commissioner Hiller, you're up next.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, I think the motion that
you've made is the correct motion, and I think that the issue of
compatibility, which as Mr. Weeks properly says, is the analysis that
has to be engaged to make a determination that it is consistent with the
Growth Management Plan was appropriately done by the Planning
Commission. And the conditions that are imposed by the Planning
Commission -- and even the conditions that you willingly accepted on
top of that which is that, for example, lighting and buffering be at least
at the same standard that Covenant -- that was imposed on Covenant,
because I was on the side of the public. You know, I was a member of
the public in opposition to you on Covenant. So I know what we did
to protect the neighborhood. And it has protected the neighborhood
very significantly.
So I agree with Commissioner Henning's motion and I wanted to
make those remarks.
I would like to also mention, while this is not part of the hearing
and I can say this afterwards, but one of the members of the public is a
member of Covenant and admitted to me that they cut through our
neighborhood. So can you have Code Enforcement go out there and
please make sure that that's not happening? And just -- and I make that
point as part of this hearing so these residents know that Code
Enforcement will be watching. And while I understand it wouldn't be
intentional or with malice that parishioners would use these back
roads, it is the intent that the county will be overseeing the public's
interest, as well as the church's interest. Nicely. Just like I did right
now.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Okay. And with that, if I may, I just want
Page 67
February 9, 2016
to make a few --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I say something else before
you start talking?
MR. YOVANOVICH: You're in charge.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you.
I did have the opportunity to getting a lot of feedback on the
question of whether we have police officers either through the Sheriffs
Office or not through the Sheriffs Office managing the traffic, and I
can report to you that I have an expert here to testify to that and it is the
deputy sitting right here at the end of the dais who has informed me
that they are not off-duty, they are actually on duty, active duty with
the Sheriffs Office, that the contracting for these deputies is through
the Sheriffs Office and that the constituency who chooses to have this
additional service pays the Sheriff directly. And I was told it is
something like 42.50 an hour.
So if anyone's interested in doing it, that's how it's done. It is
through the Sheriff under his control. They are active duty deputies
that are doing the traffic control. So my concern was addressed, thank
you very much.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes, this has been a difficult
decision for me to make. And I cannot support the motion, I want to
put that on the record right now. Because I believe that as a
Commissioner I hold a responsibility in my voting. And even though
what I vote or what we decide today can't bind future commissions, we
heard testimony at our last meeting that folks purchased and built and
expanded their homes based on that meeting and that testimony, that
there would never be anything else but residential next to Dr. Pena's, or
the commissioners that spoke at that meeting would never have voted
for it.
That's as close to a promise as I can figure out. That's kind of
Page 68
February 9, 2016
saying to the people, don't worry, you know, we feel so strongly and
this is what's going to happen.
Now, I know, legally I get it, I understand the issue. But, you
know, I'm a simple girl. A promise is a promise.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, but the law is the law.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And unfortunately with the law
it's which gun do you want to shoot? Do you want me to say this?
Well, maybe not, maybe I can say this. But a promise is something
that's, you know, it's kind of neighborhood and family and what we
base this land on. Sorry I'm getting patriotic, but it is. It's your word.
If we don't have our word, what do we have?
MR. YOVANOVICH: I've got to address a couple of comments
when I'm allowed, if you'll let --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I sat in my church on Sunday.
And it's a smaller church, I spoke about it at the end of the meeting two
weeks ago. It has a small parish hall, and it's nestled right in a
neighborhood. And it's a New England church, a small New England
church by design. And I looked at the bulletin. Well, they've got
something going on Monday and about four things on Tuesday, and
then they've got a service tonight and then there's Ash Wednesday,
there's three services then, and then we've got a couple of things going
on Friday and Thursday and oh, there's the sales, you know, the sale
that they do once a month. And we don't have a childcare facility, we
don't have a church school, and we have three services on Sunday and
we now have a service on Saturday because we can't keep all the
people in the church.
The idea that this church is going to be a static institution that is
not going to grow, I think our good minister would probably say that's
not our intention, we want to bring more people to God, we want this,
we're reaching out our arms to you, that's why we want to be here, not
just to accommodate who's here but to bring more people into the
Page 69
February 9, 2016
church. That's their mission. It's a wonderful mission. These good
people don't attend his church because it's not the good Word.
We are not going to be able to monitor this. All we're going to do
is be reacting to it. And when we react to it it's going to be after it
grows. What are we going to say, oh, no, just tear up this church?
You said it was 400 and X amount and now -- and you said three
services and now we've got all this other stuff going on. We can't
control that. And we shouldn't control that. Because this is not a
compatible use for the neighborhood. And that's why I cannot support
it. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, we've had a very vigorous
discussion on this topic and I would like to thank all the
Commissioners and the people associated with the church and the
people in the neighborhood for coming and participating in this
vigorous way.
We have a great deal of growth coming in the future. At present
Commissioner Henning and I represent the area known as Golden Gate
Estates. And, you know, years ago it was all considered to be Golden
Gate Estates and now most of what Commissioner Henning represents
is considered to be the urban Estates, and what I in District 5 represent
is considered to be the rural Estates. And why is that? It's because we
have approximately two percent growth every year. And because we
have a beautiful community, people are going to continue to come, and
they're going to come and they're going to come and they're going to
come. They're going to continue to come. And we're going to struggle
with how these parcels on the edges of residential are used going
forward. We're going to do it over and over and over again. After my
service is completed and after the service of all my fellow
commissioners is completed that struggle is going to go forward and
we're going to have to make the very best decisions that we can.
Page 70
February 9, 2016
I want to thank everybody for the level and the professionalism of
the discussion that we've had. And I hope going forward as we work
into the rural Estates that we address our transitional conditional uses
with the same care so that we do get a petitioner that works together
with the community and with the county to produce the very best
result.
And I'm going to support Commissioner Henning's motion
because I think that has been achieved here. And I think if we
approach how we do it going forward that we're going to be able to
come to grips with these conditional uses the very best, and so I'm very
comfortable with it and I will support Commissioner Henning.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you.
I go to the same church as Commissioner Taylor. And I will tell
you that that church is smack dab in the middle of a neighborhood and
has been there for a very, very long time. And surrounding that church
on all sides are very expensive, very beautiful homes and families, and
they cohabitate (sic) with this church without walls, without buffering,
without traffic control, without any protection that is being afforded to
this church or other churches that we have approved adjacent to
residential neighborhoods.
And believe it or not, it works. And works very well. I don't go
to service at the same time as her, because I don't want to be accused
of a Sunshine violation. I'm just kidding.
But that being said, it's interesting that Commissioner Taylor
brings up that example, because it is the extreme of a church in the
middle of a neighborhood with no protections whatsoever that has
been there for years and years and years and years.
It's very pretty, by the way. I do love my church.
So that said, I want to address the second thing that she stated,
which is a promise is a promise.
Page 71
February 9, 2016
The law is the law. And the law is that one board can't bind
future Boards' decision-making. And the law is that this process
allows the owner of the property to come forward and petition this
Board in the manner in which they have petitioned. And the law is
also very clear that this is a quasi judicial hearing and that we are not
making decisions based on emotion and that we like you or don't like
you or like one party more than the other. We are making decisions
based on the evidence presented at the hearing in accordance with the
law that guides us as to how we are supposed to interpret that
evidence.
So it concerns me greatly to hear Commissioner Taylor say, you
know, I don't care what the law is, a promise is a promise. We do care
what the law is. And if you don't like the law on either side, petition
the legislature at the state level to change it. And if you don't like the
local laws, if you don't like the local Land Development Code, then by
all means petition this Board to change that as well. But whatever the
law is at the point in time that any petitioner comes before us is the law
that binds us in our decision-making. And that's just the way it works.
And while we may not like it, that is what it is.
And it concerns me greatly that we are making a decision based
on an allegation that a former commissioner made some sort of
representation and that we're going to throw the law out the window
and the objective standards that we are making this decision by
because someone made or allegedly made a promise, which quite
frankly if they did make they could not have made. And I'm not quite
sure what promise he made or how he made it, and I didn't go back to
read the promise he made, because it doesn't govern me.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Commissioner Hiller.
Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes, two things. The church,
Commissioner Hiller, that I referenced, I brought up under
Page 72
February 9, 2016
communications, I don't think you were present at the meeting, as an
example of a smaller church that exists quite successfully in the
neighborhood.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It does, very successfully.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And the square footage, there's no
comparison to what this church is going to be.
But also, Mr. County Attorney, if my vote is against this because
it is not compatible, am I not following the law, sir?
MR. KLATZKOW: You are indeed following the law.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Would you repeat that, please?
MR. KLATZKOW: You are indeed following the law.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, this has been really tough for me
be-- oh, did you want to talk?
MR. YOVANOVICH: When you're done. I do want to clarify a
few things on the record.
MR. KLATZKOW: Have we closed the hearing?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No, we have not.
MR. KLATZKOW: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, so we can -- Rich, say what you
have to say and then I'll close the public hearing.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, I mean, I thought I was in rebuttal.
And I just want to briefly address a few things only because I think the
record needs to be clear on how the church is going to move forward in
the future. Because the church does things that churches do and we
want nobody to have any misunderstanding.
We got off-- someone in the neighborhood went to the church
website about specific addictions and information that was provided
regarding those addictions. And that was an information page. And if
you clicked on it it would tell you where meetings for different
personal issues would occur. And we agreed we would have none of
Page 73
February 9, 2016
those rehab type services at this location. And we have no intentions
of doing rehab type services.
But, you know, when I was in church on Sunday, we always have
a portion of our service where we have the prayer for people who are
dealing with personal related issues like, you know, your kids aren't
always behaving well, you had someone die in your family, you have,
you know, people who may or may not drink too much. There are
people that are going to come to this church that have personal issues
and we're going to minister to those people at this church. I don't want
anybody to say that if we have someone there who is dealing with
personal issues and we have a service for people who deal with
personal issues to where we use Scripture and then we have small
groups and then we send them on their way, that's not rehab. That will
happen at this location as well as at my church and probably every
church around. That's a church thing that happens. It's not rehab. We
don't want the people in the neighborhood to say hey, I saw somebody
who went to this, quote, recovery service, but let's just make sure that
we're clear on the record as to what that is.
We also will allow either Spanish-speaking or other
congregations to use the facility that are like minded. We will not be
leasing out this facility. But churches typically have smaller
congregations use their facilities on an interim base.
So I want to make sure we're clear on that. Because I don't want
the public to say they're going back on their word as to what we agreed
to. But we will not be leasing that facility and this will not be 24/7
church on the property.
And finally, we have one week a year during the summer, we call
it vaca-- my church calls it Vacation Bible School, this church calls it
something similar, but it's recreational related, ours is music related.
One week a year you will see outside in the parking lot temporary
athletic facilities. We want to make sure that we're not -- we
Page 74
February 9, 2016
committed to no permanent recreation facilities, there's not going to be
tot lots or any big playgrounds out there. But one week a year you will
see that.
And we want to make sure we're not in violation of what we
agreed to when we went through this process; we just wanted to clarify
that.
Finally, I'm not going to bring Tim up here, because we don't
need to belabor this. But the promise is a promise that he's being
accused of is not the promise he made. The promise he made was no
more commercial. I read the transcript. I've known Tim for a long
time. If he thought his being part of this team was in any way going to
jeopardize this petition, he wouldn't be on the team.
Now, I can call him up here and go through what was in his mind
when he was sitting in your seat making a decision, but I'm telling you
what he's being accused of isn't the promise he made. The promise
was no more commercial creep. And if you read the record, that's
what it was discussing.
And if you look at their previous comments when they went to
the Planning Commission, they were saying no more commercial, no
more commercial, no more commercial. And then when I pointed out
that a church is not commercial all of a sudden the promise was no
more nonresidential.
That that's not the promise that was made in 1998. The promise
that was made has been lived up to. Tim wouldn't be part of this team.
I just needed to get that on the record, because I don't think it's been
fair the way he's been treated through comments from not only the
neighborhood but different people as we've been presenting our
petition.
And with that we hope and we believe we've met all of the criteria
as testified by competent substantial evidence. And because we've met
that criteria we hope you will vote in favor of the motion that's on the
Page 75
February 9, 2016
floor.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So now I will close the public hearing,
good, and then we have Commissioner Hiller.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. I just wanted to comment
on the statement made by Commissioner Taylor about -- and her
request of the County Attorney to ascertain that her vote or her wish
not to vote in favor based on compatibility is okay.
She most certainly legally can make the decision to vote against
this project and her basis that she feels this project is not compatible is
hers to make. But again, it has to be defensible based on evidence
introduced in opposition to the evidence that's being presented that
promotes compatibility.
This is an evidentiary hearing, and for everything that I can see,
the evidence presented rises to the appropriate level to establish
compatibility. And so while she's welcome to allege compatibility as a
basis for what she's claiming will be her denial, that, if this were to fail,
can be challenged in court. So sure she can say it, but that's not
dispositive that it's correct.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, I'd hate for the judge to
decide what's going to be there without any public input.
Rich, your comments at the end, I just want to remind you, the --
your client, the application for this project, is Summit Church.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And if Summit Church has
within its ministry a Spanish service, that's a part of the services that
you provide. However, it's not for another church.
MR. YOVANOVICH: The --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I want to finish. In the Planning
Commission's recommendations, and you accepted the Planning
Commission recommendations, it said no outside recreational
Page 76
February 9, 2016
equipment. And furthermore, it also says no recovery meetings. So --
MR. YOVANOVICH: And that's what we --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Now, I was in church on Sunday
and the minister was ministering to the people within the church that
may have addiction problems such as drugs, alcohol or sex, sexual
whatever.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Violence.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes, all that. That's ministering
to the people at the church. It's not holding special meetings with
people with addictions. That is a part of the resolution.
So if you have a different understanding, you need to tell us.
Because what you said on the record is contrary to the resolution, as I
read it.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And that's why I needed to clarify some
of those commitments. Because the word recovery is different than
rehabilitation. We do not have services for sex addicts, as we were
accused of doing. We don't have, you know, standalone --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So let me clarify.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And if I can, I want to try to get this right,
because this is important to the church. They do have a separate
service, and Johnny can get up here to address that, where for instance,
North Naples Church, I drive by it every day, and sometimes they'll
have a grief management service, they'll have a families of divorce
related services. These are the types of things that this church will do.
And we don't want to run afoul of the resolution. And that's why I
wanted to address those issues.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I just want you to know, I agree
with Commissioner Henning, and the concerns he raises are in the
back of my mind too. And I think his discussion and him raising his
perspective is completely valid.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I agree. That's why I'm bringing --
Page 77
February 9, 2016
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Finish, Rich, what you were --
MR. YOVANOVICH: So those are the types of things that I
want to make sure we all understood what the word recovery meant.
Because in the context of what we agreed to, it was a person who got
up there and said we allow sexual -- we have services for sexual
predators and we're going to be attracting sexual predators here. And
she even got up there and said it was going to affect her ability to --
may affect her ability to adopt a child.
Well, this church itself, what Johnny said at the last hearing was,
they have many families that are involved in the foster care and the
adoption process. They would never have a ministry that's occurring at
the church that would put their own parishioners in jeopardy of their
ministry, which is to allow families for foster care and cater to those
types of uses.
I'm just trying to clarify, because I don't want to run afoul if we
have a Wednesday service where we have people -- it's based upon
dealing with people who are (sic)just have personal issues and we've
now broken the covenant to now have a recovery ministry. That's why
I brought it up.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We all have personal issues.
However, in -- and this is my understanding what was agreed on.
What is provided at the Lee County Summit Church is listed on their
website.
MR. YOVANOVICH: It's not provided there. It's an
informational -- if you click on that button, it will send you to where a
meeting for sex addicts occurs in the community. It doesn't have an
app that --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Here's what I -- let me read this.
Meetings. This is recovery within -- on the page. Large groups of
gatherings on Thursday, 7:00 p.m. at the university campus for the
time of worship, teaching and breaking through the times of-- the
Page 78
February 9, 2016
facilitated groups generate specific group designated to honor -- honest
foster relationships between fellow believers and provide a safe place
for people struggling and receiving encouragement and accountability
is desired.
And this is for AA meetings, Al-Anon meetings, sexaholic
anonymous meetings, S Al-Anon (sic) meetings.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Did you click on the website? Go to
sexual predators. And what that will show you is it takes you to --
that's an informational link that will take you to where you can get
specific services related to that issue. I tried to do it here, but your
website's so good it won't let me go.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I understand.
MR. YOVANOVICH: So that's what I was just trying to clarify.
We're not -- you know, if you click on those individuals, it will take
you to a link of where you can get that service out in the community.
Off campus.
So that's what I wanted to make sure we were going to run afoul
of. And we commit to that. We've said that will be done off campus.
It's an informational website but people made it sound like we were
having that meeting on campus.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I'm not understanding
what's happening at the Lee County facility.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Johnny, you want to --
PASTOR PEREIRA: I'm actually going to ask Orlando Cabrera
to come up.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Name?
PASTOR PEREIRA: My name is Johnny Pereira. I'm the
Naples campus pastor, for the record, who oversees what recovery is.
And so he can answer any questions on that for you all to clear up what
seems to be confusion.
MR. CABRERA: My name's Orlando Cabrera, I'm one of the
Page 79
February 9, 2016
elders at Summit Church. Our recovery --
THE COURT REPORTER: Spell it, please.
MR. CABRERA: C-A-B-R-E-R-A.
So our recovery ministry is a gospel-centered ministry that helps
individuals with hurts, habits and hangups. So as it's been described, it
is a worship service. So our times of 7:00 and 8:00 we gather, we
worship God through music and prayer. We have teaching that is
guided towards specific life issues.
So as Mr. Yovanovich was saying, people that are struggling with
grief and loss in their families, people who are struggling with a
wayward child, people who are struggling with some form of character
defect or some sort of addiction, they come into that group setting, they
come into that worship service setting and we are addressing life issues
through the truth of God's Scriptures through the Gospel of Jesus
Christ.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So it's not a meeting.
MR. CABRERA: The second hour from 8:00 to 9:00, then we go
into community groups. And those community groups are centered
around just helping individuals find accountability and strength and
hope. We call that our time of just making sure that individuals have
someone that will walk with them, somebody who will know them so
it allows them to be known and to know, and it allows them to take the
truth that they are learning and apply it to their lives so that they can
live in the abundance that Jesus Christ alone can give to us.
The difference in what everyone is making the confusion on is
individuals do come from the community. Not all of the individuals
are from Summit Church, so we get a lot of people from the
community and some people who are struggling with certain
addictions. That website is created so that they understand where they
can find further meetings. So if you are a spouse of an individual who
is struggling, they can go to Al-Anon (sic). So that is for family
Page 80
February 9, 2016
members, spouses who are living or connected or associated in a deep
way with someone who is struggling with alcohol. You can go to the
website, says boom, this church. There are churches all around that
host these meetings.
Because of some of the things that we do during the week with of
our college ministry and our youth ministries that meet on Tuesday
night, Wednesday night, we don't host those meetings at the location.
We do have a service on Thursday nights. And that's what the service
is composed of
So you would have people that are very comfortable or very
familiar with attending an Al-Anon meeting or an AA meeting. They
would come. They could possibly come to Thursday night. But we
tell people that the moment they come is that we are a gospel-centered
ministry. We know who our higher power is and we make no -- we're
not ashamed to declare that. So where you would go attend an AA
meeting or an SA meeting or whatever that is, that is very ambiguous.
We're not. We know what hope, healing and strength and who it
comes from, who it's found in, and that's what we're gearing people
towards.
So we would consider it as the center of who we are. It's no
different than what we would do on a Sunday morning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. You said you had one
event a year, athletic event with athletic equipment?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah, Vacation Bible School, one week
of the summer.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I mean, it just clearly says
in the resolution no outdoor recreation equipment.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And again, what I'm saying is the
understanding was we would not have permanent facilities, but we
could have a one week a year --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It doesn't say that.
Page 81
February 9, 2016
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- vacation -- Commissioner, I'm just
putting that on the record. If that clarification is unacceptable, you
need to let us know.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, it says, and I agree, the
following uses are prohibited on the subject site: Rehabilitation or
recovery, daycare, playground, outdoor recreational equipment.
Doesn't say permanent outdoor recreational equipment.
Flea market. You don't have flea markets every day.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I can clarify that one.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay, you don't have those
every day; you have them whenever. It's saying it's a probation. Not to
have any of those activities on the outside. And that's part of the
compatibility issue. Outdoor amplified music. Those are the
compatibility issues with the adjacent property owners.
MR. YOVANOVICH: You know, that's -- what about -- Tim had
a good idea. What if we are required to go through a special event
permit whenever we do this?
MR. KLATZKOW: It would be against the resolution.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I understand that. I'm trying to clarify it.
Because what I'm saying is what we understood versus -- we always
understood you can't have permanent basketball goals out there.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, let me answer your
question. You can apply for it but staff can't issue it because it's
against the resolution.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, I would like to clarify -- that's why
I'm asking, can we clarify that we can have this camp by special events
permit.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: This will --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: -- be an ongoing issue with this
church.
Page 82
February 9, 2016
MEMBER FROM THE AUDIENCE: Creep already.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No. And, you know, we're
having issues with conditional uses and going out beyond the
traditional, and that would be -- in this case it would be worship, and
that worship spilling outside of the four walls. That's why one of the
conditions by the Planning Commission is have the construction of it
with special material so that doesn't impact the neighborhood.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I understand.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I agree with Commissioner
Henning. You know, the conditions are the conditions. There's no
interpretation beyond the plain meaning of the words. It's no, no, no.
So this is approved for this particular church for this church's
parishioners, not to be leased out to some other church for --
MR. YOVANOVICH: We're not leasing it out.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And I don't care whether you lease
it to them for money or not. In effect you're giving them the right to
use your property. Whether they're your invitees or whether you're
their lessees for money is irrelevant. I agree with Commissioner
Henning on all the points he's raised.
And this goes back to the objective determination. We've
established conditions, those conditions were made part of the
resolution. You're now lending an interpretation to words that are very
clear, and your interpretation is not compatibility with the wording as
presented to us and based on the evidence we heard. So I don't know
why at the last minute you're changing this.
But I will tell you one thing, I am going to follow Commissioner
Henning, and I believe that the issues he has raised have been raised in
a completely appropriate manner. And I agree with him. And I'm not
sure why you are switching on what I believe was a commitment you
Page 83
February 9, 2016
had made when you came forward to this Board through the Planning
Commission's request. I mean, the wording is very clear.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I will tell you --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And I'm glad you brought this up
at this time. Because if that was what was in your head, it's clearly not
what's on paper.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And that's why I brought it up before you
voted, because I didn't want you to vote thinking one thing and there
was not a meeting of the minds on that.
What happened, quite candidly --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You're an attorney. You should
have written the words differently and expressed the words as you
intended them for us to approve with specificity. Because it's very
clear, it says no recreational equipment. I think Commissioner
Henning is right. No is no. And if he doesn't think it's appropriate, I
agree with him.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I can't -- I don't have a rebuttal to that
other than what happened was the leadership of the church didn't
understand they couldn't have their typical Vacation Bible School
which will result in temporary equipment coming. That's what they
understood. I'm just hearing from you (sic) telling you what they
understood.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Then you should have clarified that
with staff ahead of coming forward.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Okay. Understand.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Because that's clearly not --
MR. YOVANOVICH: I understand.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- what is written or what anybody
believes to be the case.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I understand.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And you should have explained to
Page 84
February 9, 2016
your client and negotiated with staff and gone back to the Planning
Commission.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I understand what you're saying. I'm the
person at the podium. Trust me, I did my job.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Are we going to close the public
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It's already closed.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Oh, it is? Okay, okay.
So listening to this concerns (sic) and this conversation, and
especially the issues brought up by Commissioner Henning, it again,
and I'm not trying to drive this home or -- well, in a way I guess I am.
It shows how difficult this is to oversee. It's the camel's nose was in
the tent. Now the camel's nose got slapped and he backed out, but that
camel's nose is going to be in the tent again.
MEMBER FROM THE AUDIENCE: Forever.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And the question we have is I do
not think this is a compatible use for this property based on the fact
that there's no way we can control the traffic on Napa Woods unless
we block Napa Woods off.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Have you been down Napa
Woods?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah. Yeah, I have.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. I used to live on Napa
Woods. And the effects of the traffic at the end of Napa Woods from
the church is generated from predominantly Naples Boulevard to the
end of Napa Woods. It's not up and down Napa Woods.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, no, I know that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, there's speed bumps there.
Why would anybody go out of their way to drive down a road with
speed bumps if they're in a hurry to get to church? Are you in a hurry
Page 85
February 9, 2016
to get to church?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Never.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I don't know of anybody in a
hurry to get to church. They're in a hurry to get out of church. That's
why they have police officers --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Mr. Ochs is clearly in a hurry to get
there.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, I think the testimony was is
that rather than go through another -- make a U-turn on Pine Ridge, it
would be a lot easier to go Logan to Napa. That was the discussion.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That is a huge --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Not that it was -- it's going to be.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's a huge stretch.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: But at the same time, I do believe
that the traffic will be an impact on this church -- or excuse me, on the
neighborhood. And I do put a lot of credence into the documents that
were provided for the minutes of the meeting in 1998. I think the
vision of the Commission at that time was the Pena property, the buck
stops here. And it was the transition to residential.
And I was persuaded also by the testimony of folks, neighbors
whose invested their life savings in a neighborhood that they have --
it's a beautiful neighborhood. It's a really beautiful neighborhood.
And commercial creep is a very common issue. And as we go forward
about the infill of Collier County, it's something that we need to
address. And we definitely need to address, and this is an aside, codes
and laws that were written a quarter of a century ago. Churches are
changed. Churches are -- they're wonderful, wonderful institutions. I
give the pastor a lot of credit and all these wonderful people who spent
their good time being here this morning. They wouldn't be here if they
don't get something from it. And that's what's so very important and
you are to be commended for that. But the camel's nose got bopped --
Page 86
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Do you speed to go to church?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Whenever -- I'm ready to say something,
if I can --
MR. KLATZKOW: It's closed. I mean --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: It's closed.
MR. KLATZKOW: Rich, you're done.
MR. YOVANOVICH: The comment was I had clarified a couple
of things and the question was --
MR. KLATZKOW: Do we have an organized hearing or not?
The Board has the opportunity to talk amongst themselves, Rich, not
for you to interrupt every time.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Just let me know if I can talk about the
recovery issue and get --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Mr. Yovanovich, I'd like to ask you
a question. Are we solid on the prohibition of no or not?
MR. YOVANOVICH: I want to make sure the no, is to the
recreation, we agree.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Okay, we're in agreement.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Okay? And it's got to be the
congregation's got to be affiliated with us, correct?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I want to make sure we're on the same
page about the Thursday recovery. What we do for worship on
Thursdays. Is that okay or not okay --
MEMBER FROM THE AUDIENCE: No, no.
MR. YOVANOVICH: -- with the four that voted -- we're talking
-- I already got the one who's definitely a no. But when we talked
about the recovery what we do on Thursday, is that acceptable or not?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You're a place of worship. And
worship, the Christian worship does not distinct a prohibition with
people with bad habits. You're there to worship them -- to act
Page 87
February 9, 2016
according to what God would want to do. It's not a prohibition. If
somebody has addictions, they're going to go to whatever church they
want to.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yeah. So the Thursday service as we
described it, is that what people consider to be worship?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It is worship, right?
MEMBER FROM THE AUDIENCE: Meeting. It's a meeting.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes, it is. Yes.
The other two, sorry we brought them up. The definition of
recovery was the most critical one, because really that was focused on
rehab.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's focused on rehab or
worship?
MR. YOVANOVICH: We focused on worship. The prohibition,
the comments from the public, was they were saying we were holding
rehab because they were going to the links.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's worship as far as I can --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Commissioner, are you next or did
you just --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Are you done, ma'am? I'm done.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, I just --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: May I ask Mr. Yovanovich -- it
was my understanding, I'm going to speak because the public hearing's
closed and so if we need some clarification.
It's my understanding that the services were two on Sunday and
one on Wednesday.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Is that a question?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah, I need clarification.
MR. YOVANOVICH: No, the one thing we were very clear
about was we never agreed to limitations on worship, when it would
Page 88
February 9, 2016
occur and how frequently it would occur on the site. That came up as
an issue in front of the Planning Commission. We said no, we would
not agree to conditions limiting when we worship and how often we
worship, and we still were approved 4-1, I think it was. But it was --
the recommendation was approval without a condition on when and
how often we worship. That's why I just wanted to ensure this is a
worship service.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Again, it was my understanding
from our last meeting, and again I may be incorrect, but it was very
specified, you know, it's not going to be an impact, it's two services on
Sunday and one on Wednesday.
Anyway, that's all I needed for clarification.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, I'll weigh in.
Being that I'm presiding I just sit here and I don't have an
opportunity really to insert my own views, but it's been interesting
listening, and I think I can see everyone up here struggling, because we
all believe in God and we go to church and we want to see more and
more churches come to life because so many people have already
pulled away from church. And that's happened. So I think that's made
it a little more difficult. Especially because we know that this young
vibrant church wants to grow. I mean, they wouldn't be here if they
didn't want to grow. If they want to grow, and now I'm going to relate
to my neighborhood. The church Commissioner Henning was talking
about before, it has grown and grown. So they got some additional
land and put more parking lot on it and they -- and put a community
center somewhat on that. Then they still were growing and people
were parking all over the streets and on everybody's lawns and in front
of people's driveways and so they couldn't get in there. And they were
just in my office again saying, you know, when is it going to stop?
They wanted to build another parking lot so the parking lot is being
built now and they ripped down all the trees that were bordering that,
Page 89
February 9, 2016
and all of the trees that were shielding them from it.
And, you know, we can do this because you can change the rules
and you can put amendments to the rules. There's another one in the
area also who just started out as a sweet little church, but now it's got a
bunch of halfway houses on it. And they're doing their mission and
that's very nice, except that the neighborhood is having tremendous
problems because of that. Not that there's room to put halfway houses
on here, but my concern is I want to see this church grow. It sounds
like a wonderful church. I'd love to see it. I think that they need to
find a piece of property that would be in their keeping so that they can
continue to grow and so that they can have all the kind of services they
want and so forth. So that's my feeling on it.
And I think that there's got to be another -- there's many
properties around that are commercial and have plenty of parking and
not even in anybody's neighborhood. So this is what I'm thinking.
So Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'm concerned about the recovery
service. I need to make sure I understand that you are not hosting, you
know, going to the issue of rehabilitation, rehabilitation meetings after
your recovery service, that it continues to be nothing more than
worship throughout. Because quite frankly, everybody, regardless of
what their issues are, should have the right to, if they choose to go to
your church, to attend the worship service but that you're not AA or
any other type of group by another name providing counseling or
guidance that's non-religious based to any specific group, whatever
their issues might be.
Which, by the way, I believe like the church I go to, Trinity, does
allow that. I mean, I believe AA meets at Trinity. But obviously this
is a concern of-- go ahead.
PASTOR PEREIRA: Johnny Pereira, Naples Campus Pastor.
We do have groups, as any worship service would have different
Page 90
February 9, 2016
groups to have discussion and to talk about what they're dealing with.
But we've already stated for the record that those anonymous meetings
are held off-site. So I don't really know what else to comment on that.
I thought Orlando Cabrera did a great job explaining that.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And that's going to be true for this
location as well.
PASTOR PEREIRA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. With that, I call the question. All
in favor signify by -- let me just have the motion maker repeat his
motion. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Approve the resolution with the
Planning Commission's stipulations and that the church will market no
-- for its members and visitors not to drive, unless they live there, on
Napa Woods Way or Naples Boulevard.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. You all heard the motion.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
I just don't think it's compatible with the neighborhood, honestly.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And compatibility is the reason
I'm voting against it, yes, as stated.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are we going to lunch?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes. Now we'll go on a lunch break.
MR. OCHS: Back at 1 :00, ma'am?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, sir.
(Luncheon recess.)
Page 91
February 9, 2016
MR. OCHS: Madam Chairman, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Welcome back to the next half of our
meeting. We appreciate that.
And Leo?
Item #9B
ORDINANCE 2016-03: TO (1) APPROVE ORDINANCE NO.
2004-41, AS AMENDED, THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND
DEVELOPMENT CODE, WHICH ESTABLISHED THE
COMPREHENSIVE ZONING REGULATIONS FOR THE
UNINCORPORATED AREA OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
BY AMENDING THE APPROPRIATE ZONING ATLAS MAP OR
MAPS BY CHANGING THE ZONING CLASSIFICATION OF
THE HEREIN DESCRIBED REAL PROPERTY FROM THE
AGRICULTURAL (A) ZONING DISTRICT AND THE
RESIDENTIAL PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (RPUD)
ZONING DISTRICT TO A RESIDENTIAL PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT (RPUD) ZONING DISTRICT FOR A 106.67±
ACRE PARCEL TO BE KNOWN AS THE ROCKEDGE RPUD TO
ALLOW UP TO 266 DWELLING UNITS ON PROPERTY
LOCATED NEAR THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE
INTERSECTION OF SABAL PALM ROAD AND COLLIER
BOULEVARD IN SECTION 23, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH, RANGE
26 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA; PROVIDING FOR
REPEAL OF ORDINANCE NO. 06-31, THE FORMER
ROCKEDGE RESIDENTIAL PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT;
AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE [PETITION
PUDRPL20150002246] AND (2) TERMINATE AGREEMENT
AUTHORIZING AFFORDABLE HOUSING DENSITY BONUS
AND IMPOSING COVENANTS AND RESTRICTIONS ON REAL
Page 92
February 9, 2016
PROPERTY — ADOPTED
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, your next item is Item 9.B, which
was scheduled to be heard immediately following 9.A.
This is a recommendation to approve an ordinance changing the
zoning classification to a residential planned unit development zoning
district for 106.67 plus or minus acre parcel known as Rockedge
RPUD to allow up to 266 dwelling units on a property located near the
northeast corner of the intersection of Sable Palm Road and Collier
Boulevard, and to terminate the agreement authorizing affordable
housing density bonus.
Ma'am, this item requires that ex parte disclosure be provided by
Commission members and all participants are required to be sworn in.
And Commissioner Henning had moved this item from the summary
agenda.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
First to declare ex parte, Commissioner Henning, would you like
to start?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: To staff.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No disclosure for this item.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Reviewed the staff report.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Reviewed the report but also
spoke with staff on Monday.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine. And the only disclosure I
might have is years and years and years ago when we approved it. But
I don't even remember who spoke at that meeting, it was a long time
ago.
And other than that, I just spoke with staff.
Page 93
February 9, 2016
Do you want to swear everybody in, please.
(All speakers were duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Mr. Yovanovich?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Good afternoon. For the record, a
wounded Rich Yovanovich.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Your stock's going down.
MR. YOVANOVICH: What's that?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Your stock's going down.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I'll tell you.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: He's having to resort to the
sympathy vote, Madam Chair.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Before you today is an amendment to an
existing PUD. I put on the visualizer the location of the property. The
existing PUD is in yellow and you can see the blue is what's being
added to the PUD.
The original PUD was approved based upon a Comp. Plan
provision that would allow for increased density for doing affordable
housing. Since that Comprehensive Plan Amendment was originally
adopted the Rural Fringe Mixed Use District provision came into
existence which would allow you to go from 1.5 units per acre, which
is the base density in this area, to 2.5 if you buy TDRs.
With the change in the area and the change in the market, the --
we have decided to rezone the property to allow for a base -- the base
density of 1.5 with the one additional acre, so the density would be two
and a half units per acre on the property. So we would reduce the
density from the 400 units down to the 266; we would be adding 30
acres to the site.
We had no neighborhood opposition. I think the neighborhood
preferred the type of project, lower density project, we were doing
versus the more intense affordable housing project that was originally
going to go on the property.
Page 94
February 9, 2016
Staffs recommending approval. We obviously had unanimous
recommendation of approval from the Planning Commission.
I could go into greater detail but I thought maybe I can address
specific concerns that may be raised by Commissioner Henning since
he pulled this from the summary agenda. And if I can't answer the
questions, Patrick Vanasse from RWA or Sean Martin from the
petitioner can answer those questions.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning, would you like
to start?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. You know, it's
interesting. You usually see what the zoning is now and it has a PUD
on it. It wasn't a part of our backup material, so you can't really see
what's being proposed and what the existing zoning is. It's a total
replacement of the thing.
So I went to -- and I don't recall all of it, I went to the ordinance
that was presented by Bob Mulhere who represented the property
owner, and I didn't see any deviations on that, on that ordinance from
our Land Development Code. And they had affordable housing
agreement in there that was a smaller piece of property than what's
being proposed. It is a -- this one is less density than what is proposed.
There's a lot of deviations, what is being proposed, from our Land
Development Code. And I would think if you had affordability (sic)
component on there that you would want to deviate from some of the
provisions within the code due to economics. Can you explain that to
me?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, I'll explain some of it to you, yes,
sir.
If you go through the deviations, the deviations that are being
requested predominantly are sign related, which is not related to the
development standards on the property. And these are actually
deviations that have become more customary, if you will, as we evolve
Page 95
February 9, 2016
with the request for PUDs.
There's the typical one, which is related to the width of the road
right-of-way for private roads. The previous project was multi-family
so you don't even get into road right-of-way. Here we're talking about
doing single-family type uses, so we've added the standard private road
deviation that wasn't necessary based upon the type of development
that was happening before, which was multi-family.
Because of the addition of property in the blue, that increased the
length of the cul-de-sac that is necessary based upon the access off of
the road.
And Patrick, do you have the master plan?
MR. VANASSE: Yep.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, you have multi-family
being proposed.
MR. YOVANOVICH: It's an allowed use, but the layout is -- if
you look at the layout, we believe we're going to be single-family,
unless the market changes dramatically. But we've laid this out as
single-family and zero lot line, typical single-family uses.
But you can see by adding some of the property for the site to lay
out, there's going to be some cul-de-sacs that are longer in length than,
you know, is customarily allowed just because of the configuration of
the property.
And those are the reasons -- you know, those are why you now
have some deviations being requested and you didn't have that before
because the nature of the project is changed, the addition of the acreage
has caused a need for some of these deviations that were not required
previously.
I can have Patrick take you through each of the deviations if you
need to, but that's the reason why you've seen some deviations that
weren't there originally, because the nature of the project's changed and
the addition of the 30 acres, you know, changed the layout of the
Page 96
February 9, 2016
property.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, you have in the
development standards, besides single-family you have duplex, two or
more family, townhouse or multi-family. So that kind of goes against
what you just stated.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And if we were to develop it as
multi-family we wouldn't have the cul-de-sac so we wouldn't have to
worry about the extension. This is laid out, as I said, to address the
single-family development --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Where is the cul-de-sac?
MR. YOVANOVICH: They call these hammerheads.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, the T?
MR. YOVANOVICH: These are all considered -- I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Where it dead ends.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Wherever the road dead ends, if you will,
is considered a cul-de-sac type use.
This is the original one, right?
So that's where we met with your staff to make sure that -- your
transportation staff-- that they agreed with the deviations we're
requesting based upon the site layout with the appropriate
interconnections that staff is recommending.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What's the purpose of removing
the affordable housing agreement?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Because we are now buying TDRs to the
tune of-- we would need 106 TDRs to get to the density of 2.5 units
per acre. We're not doing a density bonus, which is what was the
original purpose of the affordable housing agreement, to get up to the
400 units on roughly 76 acres.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The density bonus, this is within
the urban area. Parts of it is within the urban area.
MR. YOVANOVICH: It's in the urban residential fringe, which
Page 97
February 9, 2016
is allowed one and a half units per acre, not four.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are you saying that you have to
buy TDRs for the affordable housing --
MR. YOVANOVICH: No, what I'm saying is we can come in
and ask for a base density of 1 .5 units per acre. To go above 1.5 we
can only go up one more unit per acre but that has to be through the
acquisition of TDRs. Otherwise we could stay under the old
provisions, which was 1.5 units per acre.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's 2.5.
MR. YOVANOVICH: 2.5 total.
But they're not related to affordable. It's 2.5 market rate units.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But if you keep the affordable
housing agreement, do you have to buy TDRs?
MR. YOVANOVICH: No, but we now would have to build a
project that frankly doesn't paper out and doesn't make economic
sense. So we're coming in based upon the comprehensive plan
provisions that allow us to do this, to rezone the property under the
current Comprehensive Plan, which would allow us to go 1 .5 units per
acre plus 1 .0 units per acre under the TDR process.
So we're consistent with the Comprehensive Plan and we're
eliminating the other option which would have been affordable
housing, to get a higher density above 1.4.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right. And that's part of my
problem. And I've been really consistent with that.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And I appreciate that. But we're not
asking for a density bonus.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, you're doing away with the
affordable housing.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Which is consistent with the Comp. Plan.
There's nothing in the Comp. Plan that can require a property owner to
go the affordable housing route.
Page 98
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I mean, that's the existing
zoning.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct. And we can always come in,
and under the code if we meet the consistency with the Comp. Plan
and we meet the consistency with the criteria, we have a right to the
rezone we're requesting. And we've gone through the process of--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, if you had the right, you
wouldn't have to be here.
MR. YOVANOVICH: I still have to go through a public hearing
process, meet the criteria. And if I meet the criteria, I have the right to
the rezone. And we believe that we've met the criteria and we have the
right to rezone the property to what we're requesting.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And you have a deviation of the
six-foot residential wall, and --
MR. YOVANOVICH: To go taller.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: To go taller.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Based upon the location adjacent to 951 .
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And the signage, as you say, in
the road right-of-way width.
I mean, there's 10 deviations from our code. And I would
understand that if, you know, the affordable housing agreement would
stay that you would want some relief from the Land Development
Code. However, I just can't support a deviation of a Land
Development Code with, you know, no public benefit.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, I would argue that the public
benefit is we're implementing your Rural Fringe Mixed Use District
provisions, which was to put lands into preservation, and the sending
lands people were -- the compensation they got was TDRs. And we
went out and bought 106 TDRs. So the public purpose is -- in fact,
we're implementing a TDR program that you all felt was very
important to be implemented by putting lands in preserve and allowing
Page 99
February 9, 2016
the sending land people to be compensated by selling their TDRs. So
the public purposes, we're actually helping you implement the program
that's been struggling.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: County Attorney, Mr. Yovanovich
represented that if he met the criteria that we would have to approve.
MR. KLATZKOW: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And so the purpose of this hearing
is to -- for him to prove that he did meet the criteria, which according
to staff he has. And clearly there's no rebuttal evidence. So we have to
accept what's being presented as true.
So what is the option? I mean, he's satisfied the criteria, there is
no rebuttal evidence, we've got to accept it as true, this is an
evidentiary hearing. How can we deny?
MR. KLATZKOW: At this given moment in time you are
correct. If the hearing continues, perhaps evidence will be offered to
the contrary.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But by whom? Not by staff Staff
has agreed. Staff has agreed that the evidence presented -- and there's
no rebuttal evidence that's coming forward. And staff can't rebut its
own evidence, they've already stated on the record.
MR. KLATZKOW: Staff has not been questioned yet. But
you're currently correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, they gave a written opinion.
Are they going to contradict their written statement?
I'm going to ask staff to come forward and to state whether or not
the evidence presented conforms to the standards.
MR. BOSI: Mike Bosi, Director of Planning and Zoning.
Staff has reviewed this petition based upon the guidance of the
Growth Management Plan, as well as the Land Development Code.
We've come to the conclusion, the arrival upon, that it's satisfied those
Page 100
February 9, 2016
components.
What is I think provided for within this process is to whether the
Board of County Commissioners feels that that determination is
correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Whether we believe that what -- I
mean, if you're telling me it's correct and there's no rebuttal evidence, I
mean, it's -- I have to rule based on the evidence. It's not my opinion.
If there's no evidence presented to refute then am I not supposed to
take what he says as true?
MR. KLATZKOW: Commissioner, the Board is entitled to
question staff. Maybe some more evidence comes out; I don't know.
At this moment in time you are correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you.
MR. BOSI: And staff would be happy to answer any questions.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I don't have any questions. You've
made your presentation, you've put it in writing.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mike, do they conform to
standards with the deviations of a Land Development Code?
MR. BOSI: The deviations are a process towards where they can
ask for an alternative way of obtaining an end goal, as stated within the
Land Development Code. Staff reviewed the deviations and we felt
the justification that was provided were adequate.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: All right, well, the conformity to
the standards would be our Growth Management Plan, correct?
MR. BOSI: Growth Management Plan at the highest level, yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. And our Land
Development Code?
MR. BOSI: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And these deviations from the
Land Development Code is contrary to our standards then.
Page 101
February 9, 2016
MR. BOSI: They are a deviation from the standards, correct. By
nature a deviation is an alternative to what's currently adopted as our
current standard.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And they can also ask for a
deviation of the Growth Management Plan --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- within certain parameters,
small parameters.
MR. BOSI: Only for where the Growth Management Plan
provides for that option that they could ask for a variance. But it's only
when the Growth Management Plan would adequately address an area
that could be provided an alternative to.
And that's where the Land Development Code has addressed
issues and identified issues in areas where deviations are appropriate.
Like an example would be use. Use you can't really have variations
with a deviation from use. There has to be strict adherence to what the
GMP would call for.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So yeah, there is --
MR. KLATZKOW: There's no as-of-right for deviations. That's
where the Board finds that this deviation serves a purpose.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. So, I mean, it's -- the
Land Development Code is standards for development. And in this
particular case it's standards for the site plan development. So the
evidence is clear that the standards are not being met. Because you
wouldn't have those deviations otherwise.
MR. BOSI: The PUD zoning category does recognize that
deviations can be appropriate where the applicant shows there is
alternative ways to accomplishing the end of the regulation of which
the LDC calls for. And then staff would evaluate each deviation if
required to supply a justification. Staff has evaluated those
justifications and feel they've met.
Page 102
February 9, 2016
I think where the Board's role would be that -- would review
those justifications that were supplied, evaluate staffs opinion upon
them and whether you agree or disagree is where there would be
opportunities for the Board to make evaluations in that regard.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And those, such as deviations
from the wall height requirement.
The road right-of-way width, there is a standard within our Land
Development Code, and that standard is in there for a particular reason,
right? It's based upon health, safety and welfare, I would imagine, for
emergency vehicles and, you know, sidewalks and parking and so on
and so forth. But --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Are you finished, Commissioner
Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I mean, the cul-de-sac deviation,
I mean, it just goes on and on.
So anyways, yeah, no, I'm done.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, I'll just weigh in on this a little bit
being that I have nobody else asking to speak.
I think this is a great change because now it will be more
compatible with the surrounding neighbors and the neighborhoods.
And I think it would fit much better. And not only that, I like the
reduced density. It isn't just dense at all.
So I would make a motion to approve.
Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, I have a motion and a second.
Any further --
MR. OCHS: Close the hearing?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- discussion from board members?
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair? I'm sorry, is there a requirement to
close the public hearing?
Page 103
February 9, 2016
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, my goodness, thank you. I have to
close the public hearing first.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Before we close it, I want to say a
few things.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And then I want a rebuttal to her
comments.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, so Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You know, the fact that you have
acquired TDRs and no one else has been acquiring TDRs and that we
start to see a market for TDRs does advance a public objective as well
and that is, you know, conservation. And we do constantly deal with
competing interests. I mean, we've got -- the goal of conservation on
the one hand, which was what prompted the TDR program, and we
have the affordable housing issue on the other.
To the extent that one or the other is being served, I think that's a
positive. I don't see it as a negative that we're taking away from
affordable housing when we clearly have a conservation mandate that
we have to adhere to as well.
According to our affordable -- and I refer back to the study done
by staff with respect to affordable housing. There's no -- according to
what we have been told, there's no current shortage in affordable
housing for single-family homes, but there has been a shortage for --
you know, there is a shortage of about 700 units for multi-family.
But that's separate and apart from the fact that this project has -- is
working towards the other objective, which is conservation. So I
would have to agree with Commissioner Fiala that this does make
sense.
Is this in your district?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Mine.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: In your district, okay. That's what
I thought. And so obviously your input is very important.
Page 104
February 9, 2016
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Very important. And I agree that
this does look like a better configuration of the project.
And as far as the deviations, these deviations are not the same
kind of deviations that are proposed outside of the context of a PUD. I
mean, that's why you have PUDs, because they're a completely
different animal, if you will, than other decisions involving the Land
Development Code.
So I again have to defer to staff and I still don't have rebuttal
evidence to go against what staff has said. I mean, staff has come to
the conclusion that the deviations are appropriate alternatives to what
is in the Land Development Code. It's not like they're disrespecting the
Land Development Code; they are according to staff an appropriate
alternative in their opinion. And no one is telling me otherwise. So
again, I can't simply say no because I want to so I have to say yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thanks. Well, the statement that
nobody else is buying TDRs is just absolutely absurdly false.
Hacienda Lakes, which is adjacent to this parcel, is buying a lot of
TDRs. The affordable housing, is it higher weight of need in the
community than the fact that TDRs are being purchased? Well, I mean,
I can definitely argue that. There's deviations in here that really don't
have an impact to services. However, there are deviations that does
have an impact in my opinion to public safety vehicles. I mean, you're
going -- reducing the road right-of-way from 60 feet, according to our
Land Development Code, to 50 feet. They are not asking for a
deviation of sidewalks. So you're going to have to have sidewalks on
both sides.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Which should make this Board
happy. Not me, but I defer --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, it does.
Page 105
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are you done?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I thought you were done.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, you interrupted me, so --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, you're wrong, I didn't
interrupt you, I waited 'til you were done.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I wish I had been brought up by
you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Chairman, didn't you call on
me?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, I did.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. There's another infactual
(sic) -- not factual statement.
So I just can't support it. You know, if the affordable housing
agreement was in place I can understand these deviations. But I don't
see a need for some of these deviations.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Would you like to answer that, Rich,
before --
MR. YOVANOVICH: Before you close the public hearing, I just
want to make sure --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You already closed the public
hearing.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, she didn't.
MR. YOVANOVICH: No, she did not.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, we didn't.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Am I wrong? Didn't the County
Manager say that?
MR. OCHS: No, I said it would be appropriate to close the public
hearing, and I think Commissioner Hiller said she'd like to make a
comment before the Chair closed the hearing.
MR. YOVANOVICH: And I think in fairness to the applicant we
Page 106
February 9, 2016
should be allowed to respond to questions or concerns about our
petition. I don't want to step out of bounds on when I'm allowed to do
that.
So one of the comments about -- first of all, in order to get a
deviation we have to go through a review process with your
professional staff, including your engineering staff, to make sure we're
not harming the public safety and welfare. The reduction of
right-of-way width has absolutely nothing to do with the reduction in
pavement.
The right-of-way width and the size of the streets for emergency
vehicles to drive on are not affected at all by this deviation. It has to
do where utilities will be placed, either in a private easement or within
the public right-of-way.
We're asking to go from 60 feet to 50 feet, which is a deviation
that has pretty much been standardly given for private streets. So this
deviation is one that your staff has looked at and has said is not a
detriment to the public health, safety and welfare.
And I will bet you if you were to look through the last umpteen
PUDs it's a deviation that has been routinely approved by the Board of
County Commissioners based upon recommendations of staff. Where
we've always gotten in trouble was the sidewalk part. Sidewalk's not an
issue here. Sidewalks are on both sides of the street.
The cul-de-sac length is a little bit different in this piece because
it's a odd-shaped piece of property with limited access points from 951
and Sable Palm Road.
So there's no way to design that site without having some
cul-de-sacs longer than what's allowed, which your staff has looked at
and said it's okay, you have the appropriate safety precautions on that.
The deviation process -- and we had this discussion maybe it was
the last meeting or the meeting before that -- where your LDC
specifically allows us to ask for deviations. We have a standard we
Page 107
February 9, 2016
must meet. And if we meet those standards, again the intent to allow
for this project to able to move forward.
We have absolutely no opposition. When we went to the
neighborhood, the neighborhood was thrilled. The surrounding
neighbors were thrilled we were taking advantage of the TDR program
and going through with this project.
The cul-de-sac length and the right-of-way widths are critical to
our ability to come up with a project that the community wanted,
frankly, versus what was previously there. And we cannot go forward
with the previous affordable housing project. We're consistent with the
code, and as the County Attorney has advised, if we're consistent with
the code and we meet the criteria, we have to be approved.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, as other Commissioners may
or may not be in agreement with me, I'm very disappointed that we're
losing what I think are much needed units and we're dropping back,
according to my math, from 105 units -- 405 units on 76 plus acres
down to 266 units on 106.
I have absolutely no problem with them participating in the
Transfer of Development Rights Program. And I'm disappointed that
they are choosing not to use the affordable housing density bonus
system. And that gives me pause because, you know -- and we'll have
a meeting coming up where we'll talk about it -- you know, one of the
challenges in our community going forward is to have housing that's
affordable to a whole spectrum of different workers, whether it's
workforce housing or otherwise.
So, you know, this does give me pause and it concerns me that,
you know, our affordable housing density program is not as
compelling as it might be to encourage people to do that.
That having been said, you know, the affordable housing density
bonus agreement is a voluntary agreement. We don't have an
Page 108
February 9, 2016
inclusionary zoning requirement here. I think this Board has
steadfastly said that they don't want to do that.
So, you know, we are on the horns of a little bit of a dilemma
trying to reach some balance here. But I can't see that I can compel the
petitioner to use the property in a way they don't want to, as long as
they follow the law. I'm disappointed, but --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: -- that's it.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I did have a question about one of
the deviations where you are by 50 percent reducing the setback from
the preserve for all principal structures? What's the reason for that?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Patrick?
I'm going to let Patrick address that is one.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Sony, I'm not talking into the
microphone either. I'm sorry.
MR. VANASSE: Good afternoon. For the record, Patrick
Vanasse, Certified Planner with RWA.
We are asking for the preserves setback deviation for very
specific locations. I'll go to the illustrator here.
Right here where our tract runs east-west, it would be for the very
corner unit. And down here also where the tract runs north-south, it
would be for that very corner unit right there. And it's a slight
reduction.
And the justification is that typically when people have asked for
that reduction in the past, they've asked for the preserve setback in the
backyard. The 25-foot setback is really to have maintenance space for
the preserve and also to avoid encroachment by all those residents into
the preserve.
So in our case we still have plenty of access and staff supports
that. And we also have, through the use of vegetated buffers, we do
prevent encroachment into the preserve. And the district calls these
Page 109
February 9, 2016
vegetative buffers structural buffers.
But that's what we're providing consistent with what the Water
Management District allows and what the county allows.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay, thank you for the
explanation.
I too am very disappointed about the affordable housing units not
being included in this.
I think -- but I would agree with Commissioner Nance's
comments that we can't compel the developer of course to put them in.
But there is inclusionary zoning and it works, it works in other
communities, and it's a perfect fit here. And it's -- I'm just
disappointed also.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, I'm going to jump in and just make
a comment. Don't worry too much about it because we've got quite a
bit of skilled worker housing right there in that area. We've got Astor,
we've got Sierra Meadows, we've got, oh, gosh, there's so many of
them. You go down the side streets and you go down Rattlesnake
Hammock Road, you go down any of these roads, there's a lot of
moderate income housing already. It's not like we lost -- and then you
go down all the way to 951 and you've got Saddlebrook and you've got
the Habitat Villages going in there.
I mean, it's not like, you know, we're without. We have more in
my district than any of you have. Well, considering part of your
district is East Naples. I'm counting her East Naples portion of it. So
it's not like we're without. It's just that what we want to do is -- I think
this would be a nice addition. And if you ask me, I would think the
skilled workers, young professionals will probably want to move into
some of these homes. And that's what we need, we all know that.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: What's the price point?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I don't even know.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: What is the price point? If I may
Page 110
February 9, 2016
ask.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's going to be market rate.
MR. YOVANOVICH: It is market rate price point.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: That was a very clear answer.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, I mean, I don't know that we --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I know.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Anyway, that was all I had to say.
Commissioner Taylor, you were next.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I spoke.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Hiller.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I agree with Commissioner Nance,
and I think the way he articulated his position is absolutely correct.
And I wanted to make sure that was on the record. I think that you
really said it very well.
I don't agree with inclusionary zoning. I think people should have
a choice as to where they live. And I think if we're going to -- and this
goes to the future discussion, what we should do is incentivize the
buyers rather than the developers to your concern about this particular
program. I would rather see down payment assistance going to work
to the workforce and to those at the various levels of affordable
housing and low income housing to make it possible for them to
choose where they want to live.
I personally would not want to have to be forced to live in a
certain area because of affordability because we as a Board decided
this is the only area that affordable housing should exist. So I really
think that when we do go back and look at the incentives, and this is
not really a hearing discussion, but to the point of--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It has nothing to do with what
we're talking about.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You're absolutely correct, it has
Page 111
February 9, 2016
everything to do with what we're talking about to the point that
Commissioner Nance made, and I applaud you for your remark and
your concern, and there are solutions that really will benefit those in
need that are not inclusionary zoning or necessarily this program.
While this program may exist and still be an option out there, there are
other choices. So that is why I support approving this,
notwithstanding.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Any other comments?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All in favor of the motion, signify by
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, 4-1.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Won one today anyways, right?
MR. YOVANOVICH: Won one.
Item #7
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE
CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, that takes us to Item 7, public
comments on general topics not on the current or future agenda.
MR. MILLER: Madam CHAIRMAN, we have one speaker. Dr.
Joseph Doyle.
Page 112
February 9, 2016
DR. DOYLE: Good afternoon, Madam Chair and Board
members, Dr. Joseph Doyle, North Naples.
I'm here to -- I'm making the circuit with all the different boards
that I -- I most recently went to the Pelican Bay Services Division
board, because I know that we're starting the budgeting process and I
would imagine that it's starting here at the county as well with your
budget director and his staff
But as you've seen, we're off to a rough start in 2016 with the
markets. In fact, this is probably the worst new year's start to the
markets in U.S. history. Many are wondering what to do now,
especially since there's a real possibility that we haven't seen the
market bottom yet. And while that's Wall Street, it will eventually hit
main street and our residents and taxpayers, and that will affect the
county.
With the national debt now approaching 19 trillion, China's
economy growing at the slowest level in 25 years, the global economy
is stalling and the oil prices are plummeting, many fear that the plunge
in the markets may not yet be over.
On January 1st of 2015, so almost 14 months ago, the DOW was
17,883. By August 25th of last year it dropped to 15,666. Recovered
a little bit for the rest of the year, but as you've seen right now it's
dancing around 16,000 and still on a downward trajectory.
The bond markets face similar turmoil, with uncertainty in Greece
and Puerto Rico. Many small countries are on the verge of bankruptcy.
Essential banks of Japan and Europe are implementing negative
interest rates so that people with savings accounts will actually need to
pay money to the banks for the privilege of keeping the deposits there.
The same could happen here.
So I'm saying is (sic) we begin to prepare for the fiscal 2017
budget that we really need to prepare for a probability of a recession,
or worse yet a worldwide depression and develop even possibly
Page 113
February 9, 2016
contingency plans for the remainder of this year. We still have seven
and a half months for the remainder of this budget year 'til September
30th. And while Commissioner Nance, I know that we had a lot of
deferred maintenance and things that you mentioned during the last
budget meetings, but quite frankly the Great Depression from 1929 'til
1940 was really a series of four recessions. And so we may not have
really gotten out of this recession, we're starting to try to do a little
deferred maintenance, but as Commissioner Hiller, as you've said, the
budget is a dynamic document and we may really look at contingency
plans.
What I'm saying is that I'd hate to see us get caught with our pants
down in a couple months from now when we could actually be
planning now for what's essential, what's nonessential and what our
priorities should be for the rest of the year, given what's happening.
Because we are living in a little bubble here in Collier County but the
rest of the world is suffering and it could spill over here sooner rather
than later.
And, you know, it's not just tax revenue but you have other
revenues, user fees and taxes that we collect from tourists that could go
down in the next couple of months. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: During --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I was just going to have Leo call -- I was
going to ask him to bring the pickleballers up.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Oh, can I just make the one
comment under public comment, because the person couldn't stay?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure. You asked before, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's okay. That's all right.
So the concern -- over my lunch break I had the opportunity to
speak to a couple of constituents who had a concern about a shooting
that I believe occurred yesterday, that a young girl was accidentally
Page 114
February 9, 2016
shot as a result of someone engaging in target practice in their
backyard. And they obviously had a larger property.
And the question that came up was whether or not -- and I do
understand the issue of state preemption, but the question that was
brought up was whether or not the county had any jurisdiction over
what people do with guns on their private property such as target
practice and if we've imposed any sort of zoning standard or whether
we could impose any zoning standard that prohibited using backyards
for target practice.
And I didn't have the answer so I wanted to go ahead and raise the
question, because I think this is a question of public concern, in light of
what happened. I believe it was a 14-year-old girl.
MR. KLATZKOW: The legislature a couple of years ago put
forth a statute that completely preempted all local governments from
this issue and had a provision that local government officials who try
to put in such provisions could be removed from office. So I would
counsel you not to touch this with a 10-foot pole.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So we don't have any current laws
in place that permit someone to engage in target practice? And I'm just
asking the question because a constituent actually -- one of them
actually thought that there was something in place that allowed for
people to engage in target practice in their backyard.
MR. KLATZKOW: Collier County has no rules with respect to
firearms. We went through our code when that statute was enacted and
we --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Eliminated everything.
MR. KLATZKOW: -- eliminated all of them.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay, that's great. And thank you
for putting that on the record.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. OCHS: Madam Chairman, you said you wanted to go to the
Page 115
February 9, 2016
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Pickleballers, yes.
MR. OCHS: -- items regarding the pickleball?
Item #11B
CHANGE ORDER NUMBER FOUR TO COMPASS
CONSTRUCTION, INC. TO UPGRADE THE PICKLEBALL
COURTS SURFACE, IN THE FORMER SKATE PARK, AT EAST
NAPLES COMMUNITY PARK, MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS
EXPENDITURE PROMOTES TOURISM, AND AUTHORIZE
NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Those begin with Item 11.B, which is a
recommendation to approve change order number four to Compass
Construction, Incorporated to upgrade the pickleball court's surface in
the former skate park at East Naples Community Park, make a finding
that this expenditure promotes tourism and authorize the necessary
budget amendments.
Ms. Bishop, your Facilities Senior Project Manager --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Move to approve.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Second.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And I have one question.
When the pickleball tournaments are over, how are these courts
going to be used? When the competition. Because I -- and it's a very
worthy --
MS. BISHOP: I have an overhead to show you.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Just one question.
MS. BISHOP: This was the change order one that you just
approved, the skate park to 12 pickleball courts. This is the stadium
court right here. These are the combination tennis and pickleball
Page 116
February 9, 2016
courts.
After the competition, this is what the pickleball courts are going
to look like.
MR. CARNELL: Just to be more clear -- Steve Carnell, Public
Services Department Head -- after the tournaments are done, the courts
are being converted to -- permanent pickleball will be used for regular
day-to-day week-to-week pickleball activity. And the ones that are
multi-use will be shared between pickleball and tennis players
throughout the year. That's the simple plan at this point.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And if any of the Commissioners have a --
so desired, you ought to go down and watch them play. That's about
150 people or 150 to almost 200 people show up every morning, 9:00
in the morning, and they're playing pickleball. It's amazing how fast
this is growing.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You know what else is growing is
bocce ball.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I don't know about that.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Oh, my God.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Anyway, so you ought to go see it. It's a
lot of fun.
Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, I would like to ask Mr. Ochs
to direct tourism staff and Mr. Wert to go to Pittsburgh and try to
achieve the funding from the HJ Hines Company so that we can
re-brand this as the HJ Hines Pickleball Center at Fiala Community,
Eagle Lakes Community Park down there, see if we can get a major
donation from HJ Hines. Or maybe we can get a bidding war between
Vlasic and Hines going on here.
MR. OCHS: There you go.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: To see who gets to name the pickle
Page 117
February 9, 2016
center.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I have a good news item, if I might
interject. Minto has actually stepped forward and said that they're so in
favor of pickleball games that they're building them in all of their
communities and they offered to give us $20,000 toward this project.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I think that's another item here.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, is it? Well, then I'm telling you early.
I shouldn't tell you early.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And I do want to interrupt and say
I relish what you're saying.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh.
I make a motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Second.
MR. OCHS: You already had a motion from Commissioner
Henning to approve, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, did I? Oh, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: You have public speakers too,
ma'am.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, so I have Commissioner Henning
and Commissioner Taylor.
Speakers?
MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am, we have four registered speakers.
Terri Graham will be followed by Chris Evan.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Do you want to talk us out of it?
MS. GRAHAM: You want me to do the presentation?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: There's no need, unless you have
an objection.
MR. MILLER: If you could just please say waive your time
when I call your name, if you want to waive?
Terri Graham?
Page 118
February 9, 2016
MS. GRAHAM: Waive.
MR. MILLER: Chris Evan?
MS. EVAN: Waive.
MR. MILLER: Carol Caefer?
MS. CAEFER: Waive.
MR. MILLER: And Jim Ludwig?
MR. LUDWIG: Waive.
MR. MILLER: That's your public speakers.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. Thank you very much.
So all in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Ooh, that's a unanimous 5-0. Thank you.
Item #11C
A CHANGE ORDER NUMBER FIVE TO COMPASS
CONSTRUCTION, INC. TO CONSTRUCT PICKLEBALL
COURTS, OVER EXISTING TENNIS COURTS, AT EAST
NAPLES COMMUNITY PARK TO SUPPORT THE 2016 US
OPEN PICKLEBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS; RECOGNIZE A
DONATION FROM MINTO COMMUNITIES OF FLORIDA,
APPROVE THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENT, AND
AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO EXECUTE THE CHANGE ORDER
— APPROVED WITH WAIVER OF THE PURCHASING
REQUIREMENTS
Page 119
February 9, 2016
MR. OCHS: Item 11.0 is a recommendation to approve change
order number five to Compass Construction, Incorporated to construct
pickleball courts over existing tennis courts at East Naples Community
Park to support the 2016 U.S. Open Pickleball Championships,
recognize a donation from Minto Communities of Florida, approve the
necessary budget amendment, and authorize the Chair to execute the
change order.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Motion to --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Move to approve.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Second.
MR. OCHS: Ms. Bishop needs to get something on the record
before the vote, please, Madam Chair.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
MS. BISHOP: I'm asking that the Board waive the procurement
ordinance for formal competition.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Why?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Waive the --
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Timing, ma'am. You wouldn't get this
done. She had to negotiate a change order with the vendor. If you had
to go out to bid you would miss the championship.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Are you saying for -- and explain
to me why this wasn't done earlier, if you knew that timing was an
issue.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: No, ma'am.
Put on the viewer, Margaret, the one that shows the different
courts, if you'd be so kind.
The one that's on the left side of your screen is the one that's a
skate park that was part of this project that's a change order that was
just approved.
The one to the right is the stadium courts and the upgrade to
Page 120
February 9, 2016
those. That came as a second -- when they signed a CBS three-year
they asked to upgrade those courts as well too. So the vendor that's
doing the project on the left, which is Compass Construction, is on site
and there were five quotes for that project. And then what Margaret did
was negotiate a change order number five to get the same prices that
they received for the change order number four to do this next project.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But it's really the same project. It's
not a different project, it's just an expansion of the existing --
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- the scope of the existing project?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Yes, ma'am. In the abundance of
caution the County Attorney said just put that on the record so that,
you know, if there's a section in your procurement ordinance because
it's over $200,000, we're required to go out to bid.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Change order.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Change order.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: The change order would have to go
out to bid.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: The whole project would have to go
out to bid because of the amount.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: The change ordered amount --
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- would be deemed a new project
because it's in excess of the threshold --
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- in the statute?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Right now the courts are painted.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Or the ordinance.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And what they need is -- I don't know
what that's called, that softer surface that they use for these courts.
MS. BISHOP: Decoturf is the professional grade, the spongy
Page 121
February 9, 2016
material. Yes, decocolor is just like a painting surface.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, good. And once they apply it, it
has to rest for a month before it can be used. So -- and we're getting
close to the time when these things -- of course the other people are on
board right now, so we're saving money just by keeping them there and
asking them to finish up the job that they've already started. So I think
that would be a good idea.
We do have some time limitations, as you know, because we've --
we're going to have this national tournament. And CBS Sports is
going to be there the entire time. You ought to be there, you can cheer
them on.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'll be there. I'll cheer.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah. She's our sports mistress.
So anyway, that's just a little bit of background information. So
we have --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Commissioner Fiala?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- a motion on the floor.
Yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I mean, I support the project. My
only concern is the waiver of the competitive solicitation in light of the
ordinance we have.
Is there nothing in the ordinance that allows for this situation
under the circumstances, under the facts that are before us? I mean, I
don't have the ordinance in front of us so I can't analyze it. But I'm
really not comfortable waiving the ordinance. I mean, the ordinance is
our law, so I'm really not comfortable with that. Unless you've got
something --
MR. KLATZKOW: But the ordinance itself has this provision to
allow you to do it in situations like this.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay, that's what I'm asking.
That's --
Page 122
February 9, 2016
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah, this is the exact reason why you have
that provision.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right. So that what I want to
know, what is the provision that we're relying on within the ordinance
to allow us to do what we're doing?
MR. KLATZKOW: You have a section --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'd like that on the record.
MR. KLATZKOW: -- in the ordinance that specifically provides
that on a case-by-case basis the Board may waive the purchasing
requirements.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Because of exigent or any other
circumstances.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: You have thresholds, ma'am. The
Board set the threshold and that's why --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, I just want to make sure. I
don't have the ordinance in front of us. I don't have it memorized, so I
want to be sure that there's something in there that specifically allows
us to make a motion and explain the reasoning behind it in order to
permit this. If our ordinance allows it and if we have a legitimate
reason, which appears to be the case as Commissioner Fiala has
articulated and staff has articulated, and it's going to cost the same,
then it makes sense.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It will cost the same through negotiations
to bring it down to there. So that was good.
Okay, we have a motion and a second. All in favor, signify by
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
Page 123
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Good, 5-0.
Thank you very much. Thank you for being here, folks.
These are our tourism guys right over here who are also on board.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, then I think we need more
bocce ball courts. I was up in Tallahassee and like every student out
there is playing bocce and drinking --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Whoops.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- microbrewery beer.
Well, they're all the appropriate age. They're all -- but I could not
believe it. I have a now 22-year-old son who's like a bocce like
champion. You know, like not really champion, but you know what I
mean, like he plays it like a pro. And I'm like in shock because I was
like --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: People on Isles of Capri love their bocce
ball.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's huge. It's like really big. And I
can show you a photograph of the place we went to attached to a
microbrewery, which was unbelievable. Something seriously to
consider.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Now I know what we can do with
the 17 acres of the county the CRA owns on Bayshore. You've got a
microbrewery going in there.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Oh, do you? Oh, my God, I know
all about microbreweries. I --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: While you girls are chatting, I'm
going to take a break.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I want you to know, I went to --
Page 124
February 9, 2016
literally with the intent of suggesting that we from a tourism standpoint
look at bringing microbreweries here and develop a microbrewery --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: We've got it.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- cluster. I've got to show you, I
met owners of these microbreweries. I can introduce you to them.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We've got one coming on Bayshore,
Commissioner Taylor said.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's such a very -- it's like truly
interesting.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Now we'll get back to the subject. I love
that subject, it's a fun subject. It's --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Congratulations.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Microbreweries and bocce.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We've got two commissioners --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Absent.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- absent, so let's get on with it, ladies, and
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's right, because we didn't
adjourn.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Let's move this business.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- get it done quickly.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And we've got a majority of the
Board here. It is a coup. We're taking over. We want microbreweries,
bocce courts, and we want night bocce, right? They have all the little
lights. And everyone's like drinking microbrewery beer --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And more pickleball courts.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- and then you'd have a pickleball
-- I don't know how you play pickleball and drink beer.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Uh-oh, Commissioner Nance found us.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Bring the meeting back to order.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
Page 125
February 9, 2016
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Leo?
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am, would the Board prefer to finish the
two remaining staff items before we go back to the discussion on the
fire EMS issue, or do you want to take that next?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Madam Chair, Roger Jacobson
from the City has been patiently waiting since this morning regarding
the boat speeds and the manatee issue. I think it could be dispensed
with fairly quickly.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And I think we should wait for
Henning to come back to talk about fire.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It seems to be an issue near and
dear to his heart --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: 11.A.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- and I wouldn't want to --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Is he here?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- deprive him of the opportunity --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: 11.A.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- to articulate his strong feelings.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Is he here?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: He'll be back.
Item #11A
RESOLUTION 2016-31 : CREATING A LOCAL RULE REVIEW
COMMITTEE (LRRC) BY RESOLUTION FOR THE PURPOSE
OF REVIEWING MANATEE PROTECTION ZONES AS
PROPOSED BY THE FLORIDA FISH AND WILDLIFE
COMMISSION (FWC) AND TO PROVIDE LOCAL INPUT TO
FWC — ADOPTED
Page 126
February 9, 2016
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, then we'll move to 11.A with your
approval. That is a recommendation to create a local rule review
committee by resolution for the purpose of reviewing manatee
protection zones as proposed by the Florida Fish and Wildlife
Commission and to provide local input to the FWC --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Second.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I'm going to second it. I'd like to
make a couple of comments, though, Commissioner Hiller.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Sure.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I think the methodology that staff is
recommending to appoint a committee of 10 voting members and four
nonvoting members very thoughtful. That allows each of the
municipalities, including, Marco, Everglades, Naples and Collier
County to have them, and also divide them between waterway users
and manatee advocates. I think this is going to be a great committee.
I second the motion. I think it's going to be very interesting, but I
will support it.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And I think it's state mandated
how to do this.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Oh, yeah. It's -- you know.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Mr. McAlpin, do we have any
idea when the comments of Florida Fish and Wildlife are coming
down?
MR. McALPIN: There's two pieces to this. First --
MR. OCHS: For the record.
MR. McALPIN: For the record, Gary McAlpin. Thank you,
County Manager.
There's two pieces for this. The first piece is that we have to seat
Page 127
February 9, 2016
the committee. And then once the committee is seated, then FWC will
give us the comments at that point in time when the committee is
seated, and they'll have 60 days to review, make comments and submit
those back to FWC.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So Mr. County Manager, how
long will it take to seat the committee?
MR. OCHS: I would expect that in your first meeting in March
we would be back in front of you with a list of candidates that have
applied for service on this committee, for the Board to make their
selections.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: We'd have to wait a full month?
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am. You typically do an advertisement to
give people time to submit their applications and have those vetted and
put into an executive summary for the Board to act on.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So then at that meeting, the first
meeting in March, we'd pick the folks, right?
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am, that's the plan.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay. And is that copacetic with
the City, Mr. Jacobson?
MR. JACOBSON: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: All right.
MR. OCHS: Appreciate Roger being here.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: We vote.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You want to call the question?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning, I'm sure he said
aye in the back room, but we'll just count it as four.
Page 128
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: He's adding drama to this day.
Item #11E
A SUBSTANTIAL AMENDMENT AND SUBRECIPIENT
AGREEMENT PRESENTED BY THE DIVISION OF
COMMUNITY AND HUMAN SERVICES FOR A PROJECT
PREVIOUSLY APPROVED IN THE FY 2015-16 ACTION PLAN
FOR THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT
PROGRAM. THIS ITEM HAS NO NEW FISCAL IMPACT —
APPROVED; STAFF TO BRING FORTH A REPORT ON CDBG
FUNDS AT A FUTURE MEETING
MR. OCHS: The last staff item, Madam Chair, is Item 11.E,
which was previously 16.D.4 on your consent agenda. This is a
recommendation to approve a substantial amendment and sub-recipient
agreement presented by the Division of Community and Human
Services for a project previously approved in your FY 15/16 action
plan for the Community Development Block Grant Program.
Mr. Carrell is available to present.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, I might as well just tell you why I
pulled it so that --
MR. OCHS: Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. Commissioner Fiala brought
this forward.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- you'll know what it was about.
We've been talking about, and I mentioned this to the Board
before, I think that some of these CDBG funds ought to be redirected
to the low income areas that are right now lacking lights and lacking
sidewalks. And we've all talked about it before. We know that they
have nothing. And I'm not saying I want to take care of-- take it away
from this one, but what I think is they want to build a wall and
Page 129
February 9, 2016
everything but -- and I understand that, but we really need some of
these, especially in high crime area, we need lights. Shine lights on the
crime and they're not going to be as active there. And sidewalks so
that -- some of these places have no sidewalks whatsoever. We've
been meaning to do it, we keep saying.
And then I was told -- I don't think it was by you, Kim, but
somebody told me, they said: Well, we're not going to do that unless
you request it. And so I said: Well, okay, I'll request it.
Because, you know, these places need sidewalks. And they're
usually really older, you know, like Naples Manor, for instance, and
Bayshore. And they need them in Golden Gate City; I know they've
been asking for that. And they need it in Immokalee. They've got a lot
of requirements for sidewalks. And they need lights too. You've got
to shine light on it to make it a safer neighborhood. And that's what
my suggestion is. And if you've already promised this to Habitat, I
don't want to take it away from them, but what I want to say is from
here on in CDBG funds that come up, let's apply it to the things that
are really in desperate need and we haven't fixed in 30, 40 years.
Okay?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I agree.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: How about you Commissioners?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I've got my light on.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, I'm sorry.
(At which time, Commissioner Henning enters the boardroom.)
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I agree. And I think Commissioner
Fiala is right, especially about the lighting. We need sidewalks first
and foremost in the commercial areas. And then secondly we need
street lighting everywhere. Because it definitely promotes public safety
to have the street lighting.
So I would say the first and foremost project is to get lighting
through both the commercial and the residential neighborhoods in
Page 130
February 9, 2016
those communities where safety has been an issue.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Right.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And safety, not -- I don't mean just
from a criminal standpoint, but where, for example, pedestrians are not
highly visible to drivers. You know, when you've got a lit street you
really see people better on top of the crime issue, because it does work
against crime.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And with CDBG, I think the funds have to
be used in low income areas. And everything that I've just named is
low income.
So you've got four Commissioners sitting here that could use that
money, could use the lights, could use the sidewalks, and so I think it
would be --
MR. OCHS: Commissioners?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- kinder to the community.
Yes?
MR. OCHS: And we hear you loud and clear. I would appreciate
an opportunity maybe to come back in front of this Board and have a
little bit more detailed discussion on this. Because every time you
change the objectives that you previously approved for this CDBG
program, there are projects that will fall off of that list. And I want you
to be fully informed and be able to make the best decisions that you're
capable of making, and I'm fearful that we're not giving you the
complete description right now today.
We understand the need and we understand the desire, but if it
pleases the Board, we'd like to come back with a little bit more of a
formal report and give you an opportunity to hear exactly how this
program is structured, what requirements are attached to it, what
flexibility you have as a local governing body to affect and influence
where those funds go, and frankly what areas you can't go with this
particular set of grant funds.
Page 131
February 9, 2016
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I think that's a great suggestion. I do. But
I think some of these areas have been out of our view for so many
years nobody even thinks of them anymore.
MR. OCHS: Well, and part of that report, what I would do is I
will show you historically where CDBG funds have been applied for
stormwater programs and street lighting and sidewalk improvements.
So I don't want to leave you with the impression that none of this
funding ever goes for those kind of infrastructures.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No, I did not say that.
MR. OCHS: I understand, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I've got --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: May I just finish?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- Commissioner Nance next.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: May I just finish?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Commissioner Taylor, then I'll go.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I just finish what I was --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Well, I was --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Let them and you come back.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I'll add something to the mix too,
and that is the fire suppression issue in the Bayshore area which is in
great need and which does require some planning. And you've done
what you can. There is an opportunity to partner with the City of
Naples. So it's a huge issue.
So I look forward to that, because I'm not sure how -- you know,
there's been some debate that CDBG funding in the City never
incorporates the neighborhoods that are the recipients, so I look
forward to that presentation.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes. You know, with grant
funding being more competitive than it ever has before, I think the
corrected economy has done a lot towards limiting what's available to
Page 132
February 9, 2016
us. And with the vast amount of requirements that it takes to properly
administer these, which we have attempted to address, I think we also
have a tremendous opportunity to integrate our CRAs and what we're
doing with these grants. I think we need to completely integrate it and
we need to get prioritized on what we can do and coordinate.
I feel sometimes like when we're applying for grants we're
competing with ourselves. Is that not the case?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's a good point.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I think we can have that, we get
CRAs to get excited about things, they're submitting grants, we're
submitting grants over here. You know, we need to get this
coordinated and I think the key is to identify what our priorities are.
And I think by working together with the CRAs, as the County
Manager's already made an outreach to do so, I think if we do that it's
going to be very helpful and we're going to really be able to identify
some of these things and not let them slip through the cracks over a
long period of time because they're flopping back and forth on a
different priority list that we don't even have coordinated.
So I think we've got an opportunity to do good things, that's all
I'm saying.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And they know their neighborhood's the
best; I think you're right about that.
MR. OCHS: Yes, so we look forward to bringing that report back
fairly soon, and I think it will be informative for everyone.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, I am particularly concerned
about our obligation to make public safety our priority, which is the
function of this Board first and foremost.
So I think to the extent we know we have those funds coming to
us, any avenue that we can take to promote public safety with those
Page 133
February 9, 2016
funds should be the avenue we pick. I think that is our priority and we
should make that the focus of those dollars.
And you have done very well in allocating those dollars to the
various CRA and other neighborhoods and there's no question about it.
They haven't been deprived of CDBG funds.
But there's a job to be done that's not complete. And, for
example, the street lighting, number one, and sidewalks were
necessary, number two, are two public safety objectives which should
be finished. And, you know, there's no reason that there shouldn't be
streetlights all through Immokalee.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And Naples Manor.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And Naples Manor, and Bayshore.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: But Commissioner Hiller, I can tell
you something: When the water comes up and everybody is knee deep
in water, then drainage is the number one priority.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. Well, I don't -- and drainage
is part of public safety. Drainage is --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: What I'm saying is the need is here.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right. But that's the issue.
Drainage -- and you're 100 percent correct. But public safety is not
just crime. Public safety is, for example, flooding. That's all part and
parcel. And we have been very good in addressing the application of
these funds, as I understand, towards the drainage issues in Immokalee.
I know the CRA in Immokalee has done tremendous work with their
drainage that I have actually physically seen and have seen, you know,
what was proposed, what has been done how much it has benefited the
community.
But that goes back to my point: We need to move these funds in
the direction of promoting public safety first and everything else after.
So you're absolutely correct. Not to take away from drainage, but that
would be an example of a priority project. Drainage, street lighting,
Page 134
February 9, 2016
sidewalks are I would say the top of the list.
And does that mean we would reallocate from other projects that
we have or a different trend of the past? Maybe. But that is I think the
direction this Board wants to go in.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Just an interesting tidbit, I was trying to
get some lights for side streets down on Bayshore -- this was a year
ago, at least -- and also in Naples Manor, telling them of the crime rate
there, and the people were asking for these things. And FP&L told me,
you know, all they have to do is pay for them and we'll give them to
you.
And I said, yeah, but these are poor neighborhoods, they can't pay
for hardly their rent. And they said, well, I'm sorry, but we can't help
you. That's when I started thinking about the CDBG funds.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Excellent idea. Excellent.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. So I make a motion to
approve this item.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Second.
Call the question.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All in favor -- oh, Commissioner
Henning, wait a minute.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What item are we on?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We're on 16.D.4.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What are you guys talking
about?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: This is the last item before we go
home. No, I'm kidding.
MR. OCHS: 11.E, sir.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Who hit you in the forehead?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Occupational safety.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I see.
Okay, all in favor, signify by saying aye.
Page 135
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Very good.
Item #10B
CONSIDER NORTH COLLIER FIRE CONTROL AND RESCUE
DISTRICT'S RESPONSE TO THE COUNTY'S SETTLEMENT
PROPOSAL REGARDING THE PROVISION OF ADVANCED
LIFE SUPPORT (ALS) SERVICES IN THE DISTRICT -
DISCUSSED; MOTION DIRECTING STAFF TO BRING BACK A
UNIFORM RESPONSE TIME POLICY/ANALYSIS FOR EAST
AND WEST OF COLLIER COUNTY — FAILED DUE TO LACK
OF A SECOND
MR. OCHS: That takes us to your add-on item on today's
agenda. Item 10.B under Board of County Commissioners. This is a
recommendation to consider North Collier Fire Control and Rescue
District's response to the county's settlement proposal regarding the
provision of advanced life support services in the district. And
Commissioner Fiala, who received correspondence from the chair of
the North Collier District, has placed this item on the agenda for
discussion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Do we have anybody presenting, do you know? I see a North
Naples fire guy out there -- I mean, a North Collier Fire guy out there.
Page 136
February 9, 2016
MR. OCHS: Commissioner, Ms. Price and Chief Kopka are here
and can, if you'd like, go through the letter briefly.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That would be great. I would like that.
MR. OCHS: At least a starting point for some discussion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you very much.
MR. OCHS: I don't know if it would be helpful or not to the
Board, but I can put the letter that went to the District originally based
on the Board's action on Commissioner Henning's motion at your prior
meeting and at least see what was communicated to the District.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Why don't you just do that, just in case.
CHIEF KOPKA: Good afternoon. For the record, Chief Walter
Kopka with your EMS Department.
What I'll do is I'll go through each of the items that were provided
by North Collier Fire Department that the County Manager's going to
put up on the overhead, and try and do my best at pointing out some
challenges we may see with those items.
MR. OCHS: First I'm going to put this up.
This again was the correspondence that went out based on the
direction given by the Board at their last meeting to the District.
Essentially number one extended the existing COPCN until February
25th. And then part two was the offer for a District-wide COPCN
issued for one year contingent upon the conditions listed in A through
E.
CHIEF KOPKA: Okay, I'll start with requirement A, the
common medical director. Overall this seems to be aligning with the
intent of the county's proposal.
One point of clarification I should make is that the -- currently the
county medical director, it's his responsibility to determine what
procedures each level of ALS responder provides. And it appears from
the response from North Collier there's a difference in that philosophy,
that their medical director would provide that direction as to what level
Page 137
February 9, 2016
of ALS they would provide.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: So Chief, would you, as you go
down through these, would you tell us if they're in agreement with that
condition or not or partially, or would you just kind of give us a check
off on the box? Are they in agreement with A, or no?
CHIEF KOPKA: No. Because I would say the level of protocol
currently is determined by the county medical director. Therefore,
currently we have a BLS section of the protocol, an engine level
section of the protocol, and a transport level section of the protocol.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: And they want to retain that for
their district medical director.
CHIEF KOPKA: Correct, their district medical director would
determine what level their paramedic would practice at.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I just want to understand this point
by point, if you don't mind.
CHIEF KOPKA: Requirement B, I think there's some work that
needs to be done on -- the county medical director is ultimately
charged with determining the medical protocol as opposed to the
deputy medical director. So the question is, is it a combined effort of
those two medical directors or ultimately is the county medical director
setting the protocol and determining what that protocol should be.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: So are they in agreement with B?
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, it's not that clearcut in every case,
you know. I mean, some of this is going to require some additional
discussion with the District if the Board wants to direct this that way.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I just --
MR. OCHS: The answer -- even the answer from the District,
while they try to be as specific as possible, may still need some
additional clarification. It's good that Chief Stolts is here and maybe
he can provide some of that.
What we're trying to do is give you our best analysis of what
Page 138
February 9, 2016
we've read in the letter, but I don't want to say and I certainly don't
want to speak for the Chief. So you --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: No, I'm just trying to figure out if
it's yes, no or maybe so. If they're all maybe so's, then we've got a lot
of work to do, correct?
MR. OCHS: Yeah, we could probably give you a yes, no, or
maybe so.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Is this maybe so or is this no?
CHIEF KOPKA: Well, if I could go one step further into
requirement B, I will tell you that the ride time requirement is
something we're some distance apart on. Currently the ride time
requirement per the county medical director is either once every 45
days or that paramedic rides to the hospital on all patients that require
ALS.
And the proposal that North Collier has presented, the District
proposal, as it remains the same now where they only ride to the
hospital with a patient that they start ALS on. So I would say that's in
that "no" check box.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay, no.
CHIEF KOPKA: I'm on to county requirement D, common
quality assurance. I think this is a maybe so. I think we need to work
out who is part of those quality assurance committees. Their
counteroffer didn't include EMS staff on their internal quality
assurance committee. If the county medical director is ultimately
responsible for those quality assurance issues, EMS should be a part of
that.
Also, the external quality assurance committee, I think we need to
be cautious of private medical information, who has access to those
records, and so we have some concerns there. But I think that's a
maybe so there.
County requirement E, common patient care reporting system.
Page 139
February 9, 2016
Ultimately being on the same system would be the perfect world of
patient care reporting system. Therefore, all records are in one system
as opposed to two separate systems that physicians at hospitals need to
go into or trauma surgeons that Lee Memorial need to go into to have
one reporting system would be the best, I think.
But it's not just their opinion of having two separate systems,
there would need to be some work done on the technical end of getting
those two merged. I don't know if they would be opposed to that, but I
think we need to move in that direction to have one patient care
reporting system. Nothing that can be done overnight or a flip of the
switch. It will certainly take some work to get there.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes, no, maybe so?
CHIEF KOPKA: Maybe so.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: So run down A through E again
and tell me from the top down to the bottom whether it's yes, no or
maybe.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: There's no C. You missed C.
CHIEF KOPKA: Common medical director. That's a maybe so.
And again, the issue is we need to make sure we have a clearer line of
definition of who has what -- of which doctors have which
responsibilities.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Okay.
CHIEF KOPKA: Requirement B would be a no, I think because
of our differences with the ride time requirement.
That ride time requirement is very important. Not only is it an
extra set of hands on patients that need advanced life support, but
there's a training component to that as well. So that's important for our
end.
Requirement D and E were both maybe sos.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And C, which is in County
Manager's --
Page 140
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER NANCE: That's ride time requirement.
CHIEF KOPKA: Ride time. I'm sorry, did I --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: That's the ride time?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: So what was B?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Credentialing.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No.
And C would be no then, because if it's ride time --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We didn't have C.
CHIEF KOPKA: B's a maybe. B's a maybe so. I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's just not properly labeled.
That's C. This like little thing here.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, I see, they don't have a C there.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So it's two no's and three maybe
so.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So C was then what?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No, okay.
Okay, Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, the -- this proposal from
North Collier is illegal. The statutes is clear, there's no ambiguity
whatsoever. And I'll read it. This is under medical director: Each
medical director shall establish a quality assurance committee to
provide quality assurance review for all emergency medical
technicians and paramedics operating under their supervision.
It's clear. It doesn't say that the person that the medical director is
contracting with will have the quality assurance committee. And that's
what they're proposing. Just can't do it.
The ride time -- you know, our ordinance, the preamble of our
ordinance, the purpose of it, and I'll read it: The purpose of this article
is to provide better protection of health, safety and welfare of the
residents of Collier County in the ambulance and ALS matters by
Page 141
February 9, 2016
establishing a uniform county-wide standards for certification of
ambulance or advanced life support systems.
Okay? It's their system and then everybody else. The City of
Naples, the City of Marco, all the other independent districts have a
common protocol procedure. However, they want to use their medical
director and then you'll have somebody in between the medical
director and our medical director or -- yeah, our medical director.
The ride times, you know, the smallest district we have, what is
that, Isles of Capri?
CHIEF KOPKA: Are you referring to call volume or --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, the smallest -- they only
have one station, right?
CHIEF KOPKA: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Ochopee has two stations, I
think. So that would be considered.
Do they do ride time on the ambulance?
CHIEF KOPKA: Greater Naples does, yes. We have a swap
program with them, yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. And they have, and
they're boastful of this, we have more paramedics than you do. But yet
they don't want to ride on the ambulance for that greater experience of
patient care.
I mean, I just -- it's not consistent. I mean, I can go on and on and
on with this. I mean, they're telling the medical director who he's
going to work with, and you're going to have an arbitrator and that he's
going to do -- their medical director will do the credentialing. It's not
consistent with the ordinance at all. And I thought I was very fair to
provide consistency with my motion of settlement of this issue.
Everybody else has an interlocal agreement. Nobody has a COPCN.
However, they're insistent on it. So that was a compromise. You want
a COPCN? Let's have a countywide standard of care.
Page 142
February 9, 2016
They don't want to do that. They want to use their system for
reporting and you'll get a password, a user name and a password.
Everybody else uses one system. Why are they so special?
You know, I just -- you know, I received a phone call from Norm
Feder and he says we can agree to just about everything. And then I
read it and I don't see anything they agree on. Absolutely nothing.
Because they have to be different. So there's no common uniform
standard within the county on the north side.
And, you know, I just hope that we stick to our guns, very fair, as
to why we wanted to use the county medical director so we have those
uniform standards. It's really simple.
And this agreement, not only is it illegal, it's so convoluted to
providing that standard basic care throughout Collier County.
So I'm sticking to the guns on what we provided. It was very fair,
and it's not a use somebody -- we'll use your medical director but we're
going to use our criteria, our assistant medical director, which you
have to hire, county medical director. You have to hire that person.
And he will set up all the criteria. And if you don't like it, we'll go to
mediation through a third person and that third person will decide.
Now, who picks that third person? The district. That's not
standard protocol for Collier County. And I didn't hear any objections
from this Board when we sent that letter on our offer. No objection
whatsoever. And we got something totally different sent back to us.
So I'm very disappointed.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you.
The interlocal agreements that we have with the other
municipalities and special districts are illegal and they circumvent state
statute which requires these independent districts and municipalities to
have a COPCN to allow them to have a state awarded permit. And one
of the reasons that the use of interlocal agreements was advanced was
Page 143
February 9, 2016
because a lot of these agencies, or I should say independent districts,
would not qualify at the local or state level locally to get a COPCN or
at the state level to get a license, because they're financially in trouble.
Greater Naples, and I don't have the numbers in front of me. I believe
is --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's not on the --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It is absolutely part and parcel.
You raise the interlocal agreements, I'm addressing it. If you hadn't
introduced it I wouldn't deal with it, but it's absolutely essential. And it
goes directly to this issue.
For example, the Greater Naples Fire District is in debt to the tune
of, I don't know, something like $18 million. They don't have the
financial wherewithal to qualify for a COPCN, so to circumvent that
need that they can't qualify for we've gone to interlocal agreements,
and that is not the way -- it's just not legal.
So what's happened here is the Board has wrongly denied North
Naples their COPCN which in turn denies them the ability to get their
state license and would like to through that denial force them to enter
into an interlocal agreement in order to provide ALS services, which
again, going to the point I made earlier, cannot happen.
What the Board has also done is now attempting to condition
North Naples COPCN approval on these conditions. We cannot force
another board to hire a specific medical director. It doesn't matter who
that medical director is. We can't force that board through that
COPCN approval process to do what we are asking them to do.
Now, we can award them a COPCN based on them providing us
with the evidence to show that they qualify for that award based on our
ordinance. And our staff stated that North Naples did provide that
evidence. And our staff recommended that North Naples be awarded
their COPCN. We can award the COPCN, let them get their state
license and then enter into an interlocal agreement with them with
Page 144
February 9, 2016
respect to how aid will be provided mutually. But we cannot do what
we're doing because it circumvents what the statutes provide.
With respect to ride times, I have a real concern just generally
with what we're doing with these other districts as well as what's being
proposed in this -- by way of the settlement discussion. And I raised
this to Leo and I'm going to raise it again. I don't know enough about
Medicare billing, but I have a real concern that us putting our people
on other districts and municipalities firetrucks and conversely them
riding in our ambulances could significantly impact how billing is
done. Because, you know, which employee is providing the service
and who has the legal right to bill. And if we're not doing it correctly,
I'm very concerned that, you know, Medicare revenues that we have
received could be called back by the feds.
Now, I don't want to get into a discussion on that, but it does put
into question what we have been doing with respect to requiring ride
times on trucks and ambulances, whether they be others on ours or
ours on theirs. And, you know, at some point I think that question has
to be answered.
So the bottom line is, you know, I understand that this settlement
offer was made. I don't believe that it is a legitimate offer because I
don't think it can be proposed legally. I do believe that if we awarded a
COPCN and North Naples got their state license, that we then could
enter into an interlocal agreement to address mutual aid and these
issues that are being raised.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Commissioner Taylor, you're next.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: When I received this letter I read
it probably three times and realized that I wasn't so kind, I'm not sure
maybe so is part of the agreements here. I mean, it's just -- it's more of
what we've gone through before and it's very, very, very disappointing.
The ride time requirement is really so very important for the
health, safety and welfare of our citizens. We have a medical director
Page 145
February 9, 2016
who received national acclaim for his leadership for emergency
services. And not that I'm a physician, but frankly, I really respect that
his -- what he's achieved and what his rationale is behind the protocol
that he's established.
And when I read this letter it's just no, it's going to be more of the
same. You've got the county medical director and we're going to have
our district medical director and we're going to kind of create it all
ourselves. And when I -- we're going to do pretty much what we've
done in the past. Just give us our COPCN and we'll work on it.
And I just don't think that's -- it almost mocks what we've offered
and this Board has come to North Collier to give. And the whole
concept behind settling this or coming to some kind of agreement, it's
kind of a, I'm sorry to say, a slap in the face.
And so I'm inclined to kind of say that maybe we've reached the
point of deciding what we're going to do and February the 25th is the
date and that's where I am with it. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, I'm not sure, does this
item need a motion? Is it an act item or response? Jeff?
MR. KLATZKOW: You don't need a motion. I mean, you can --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We already have a motion that
generated this letter.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. I mean, you could make a motion but
you don't have to.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But if we don't make a motion
pretty much --
MR. KLATZKOW: You're going back into those proceedings
and your next step will be mandatory --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, no, we're saying what the
letter wrote. Unless we change our position on what we sent to the
district.
Page 146
February 9, 2016
MR. KLATZKOW: That's right.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
Now, how long have you been practicing government law?
MR. KLATZKOW: About 15 years now.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: 15 years?
Is it your understanding that the interlocal agreements that the
county has with the municipalities and independent districts is illegal?
MR. KLATZKOW: It's my understanding that they're legal.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is it your opinion that the Board
of Commissioners can offer a COPCN with conditions?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. It's legislative. It's a legislative item, so
yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And you've been practicing law
how long?
MR. KLATZKOW: Oh, Lord, longer than I want to think about
it. But --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: When is your contract coming
up?
So you have more, would you say, would it be fair to say that you
have more legal experience on government law than anybody else in
this room?
MR. KLATZKOW: Oh, I don't want to compare. It's just my
opinion that these are lawful agreements, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes. Well, I'm going to go on a
little bit of a soliloquy here, so please indulge me. I want to look out
for a moment and I'm going to bring it back to Commissioner
Henning's thinking in a second. But I want to talk about what we're
trying to achieve here.
And the first thing I want to do is I want to give credit to
Page 147
February 9, 2016
everyone in Collier County that is working on emergency medical
response, because I think we have seen in just a few years here great
organizational accomplishments. On all parties. I think we've seen an
improvement and really a focus on the part of EMS. I think the
independent fire districts are all working extraordinarily hard, and
those fire commissions and commissioners are doing as well. The
dependent fire districts which we're working with are working very
hard, and the municipalities are all working together I think better than
they ever have been before.
That considered, we do need some, in my view, some systemic
improvements if Collier County's going to achieve the best possible
results. And I think those systemic improvements that we need speak
right back to the agreement that we're trying to reach with North
Collier.
I'm going to boil it down for you after having thought about it into
three major elements that I think we need systemic improvements.
And some of these, you know, you can divide them up into these A, B,
C, D and E if you'd like to.
The first thing that I think's important is for us to have an
independent third-party oversight of a unified emergency response.
And I did not say consolidated emergency response, I said a unified
emergency response. Independent third-party oversight.
I believe that that medical professional that needs to provide that
independent third-party oversight to all units, all the ones I just
mentioned, has got to be the medical director. And having that person
be demanding in seeking the highest standards is exactly what we want
in that independent third-party oversight. We want somebody that's a
task master. I don't want somebody that's a nice, warm and fuzzy guy
or that's even easy to get along with. I want somebody that is going to
reach out and find the highest standards possible and try to make sure
that those are across all those agencies that are trying to work together.
Page 148
February 9, 2016
The second thing is a unified information collection and reporting
system. We have to have the same system for everything. It just
makes common ordinary sense. If we're going to do analysis that's
meaningful, if we're going to do self-evaluations on whatever periodic
basis it is, whether it's biannually or annually or whatever, we're going
to do those self-evaluations and we're going to take a look at our
operations critically, we have to have unified information collection.
We certainly need it when we get to the patient care element.
Look, information is power. Having information that's easily --
you know, and you can define what that is. And this Board doesn't
need to define that. The medical professionals need to define what
information we need, but we all need to be -- we ought to at least be
able to agree what important elements of information are collected and
get all around the same system.
And finally the third one is highly skilled service providers. In
order to be highly skilled, you have to have two things. I don't care
what business you're in. And this is certainly one of those important.
You have to have education and training and then you have to have
experience. And you're not going to be the best unless you have both
of those.
I have no doubt that everybody engaged in Collier County has
great education and training, but we have a big gap in experience. I'll
give you an example: It was forwarded to me from North Collier Fire
Control and Rescue District, a draft copy of their five-year strategic
plan. On Page 20 of that plan they put out a graph and it said graph B
indicates the amount of times district personnel has ridden along to the
hospital.
That is defined, as the way I understand it, and Chief Kopka, you
can correct me if I'm wrong, but that means the number of times the
district personnel initiated advanced life support procedures. Is that
correct?
Page 149
February 9, 2016
CHIEF KOPKA: Yes, sir. Or the patient's condition warranted
another set of hands in the back of the ambulance.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Okay. So we got -- that's the
period of time when they initiated it or it was necessary for them to
proceed.
CHIEF KOPKA: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Okay. According to their graph on
Page 20 of their draft strategic plan, they did that, in the year 2014, 566
times. Those personnel initiated ALS or were needed to ride along 566
times. And 651 personnel were involved. So I'm taking that to mean
sometimes there's more than one of them in the ambulance together.
Okay, let's just do the math. If they have 100 paramedics and
they do during the year 566 times, that means each one of them
initiates ALS 5.6 times a year. Is that math right? Am I missing
something there?
CHIEF KOPKA: I believe so. I'm not looking at your numbers,
but --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I'm going by their numbers, sir.
I'm not going by numbers I gathered. I'm just going by this graph.
That means that each one -- if there's 100 of those folks -- okay, if
there's 50, it's twice that, it's 12 times a year. That's once a month.
So you've got technicians that are only applying their craft once a
month or once every other month? If that's -- if I'm missing something
there, I'd like to know that, because that's not a lot of practice of their
expertise in the real world emergency conditions.
Am I wrong, sir?
CHIEF KOPKA: For the record, Chief Kopka from EMS.
I'd refer to North Collier to verify those numbers. I don't want to
speak on behalf of what numbers that they're --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Chief Stolts has jumped to his feet.
So, sir, could you address that for me and help me if I'm in error?
Page 150
February 9, 2016
CHIEF STOLTS: Yes, I would. For the record, Chief Stolts,
North Collier Fire Chief.
Commissioner, the 600 times that you're referring to of us riding
into the hospital with a patient, you have to remember, our agreement
is that if we start advanced life support prior to EMS's arrival,
advanced support prior to arrival, we will ride with that patient to the
hospital.
You've got to remember, when we arrive on scene the first thing
we're going to do, which is always overlooked in this room
particularly, first of all we do basic life support. We do BLS, we're
checking the vitals, we're going through all the basic life support things
to find out whether advanced life support is needed. Once advanced
life support is needed, if your EMS unit is not available or on scene at
the time, we will go ahead and start advanced life support.
So really, if you look at us arriving on scene, going through our
BLS process, probably taking three, four, maybe even five minutes to
arrive to the fact that ALS is needed, we're starting that because your
unit is not on scene.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I got that.
CHIEF STOLTS: Okay. So all those times really reflect are the
times that your people weren't there within five minutes. It was longer
than that before you arrived on scene and we started.
When we arrive on scene together -- let's just say we both pull in
together. Or in that period of time where we're in the process of doing
basic life support then your folks come in, we're working together.
Your paramedic and my paramedics are working together on the
patient. We have done many, many advanced life support skills
together that are not listed on your 600 times --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: No, I understand that. I'm trying to
determine how many times you've done it by yourself. That many
times.
Page 151
February 9, 2016
CHIEF STOLTS: 600 times we --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: 600 times.
CHIEF STOLTS: -- is because we rode into the hospital 600
times. But we have done the ALS skills a lot more than that, sir.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: No, I understand that. I'm just
trying to figure out -- you know, it's nothing like an emergency when
you're by yourself and you have somebody else to do it. And that's
what I'm trying to figure out.
CHIEF STOLTS: We've done it with your folks and we've done
it by ourselves.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yeah, I agree. No, I understand.
But this is when your guys were on the chopping block, when you
were there and you had to make a determination that the patient was
care critical and you had to initiate ALS by yourself.
CHIEF STOLTS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: The average was five point -- if
you had 100 folks -- I don't know, how many folks do you have?
CHIEF STOLTS: Right now close to 100 medics.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: 100, okay. So let's just call it 100
for the sake of discussion. 5.6 times a year.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, that's not correct. He's just
clarified that on the record multiple times.
CHIEF STOLTS: 5.6 times a year that you weren't there within
five minutes that we had to ride.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But it reflects the stat--
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Ma'am, I'm not talking to you. I'm
not talking to you. I understand. I'm just -- the numbers tell me a lot.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: They tell you that we're bad, not
that they're bad.
CHIEF STOLTS: Sir, those numbers should tell you that that's
how many times we had to start advanced life support because you all
Page 152
February 9, 2016
weren't there. That's what those numbers should tell you.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Okay.
CHIEF STOLTS: And that's what a true reflection of it is.
Would it do any good to try to maybe explain? I can't believe
we're this far apart on what was offered. And I didn't put in my three
minutes yet to talk, because -- is there any way I can take a look at A,
B, C, D?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Well, I'm not done yet. Let me
continue, okay? Let me continue just a second.
So I'm concerned that we have independent third-party oversight.
I think that's critical. We have a unified collection reporting system,
and that we have highly skilled service providers. That includes
education, training and experience. And I'm not a person as a
Commissioner that can say what that education, training is or
experience. But I know that the people that have the most experience
are the people that are the best for me. When I go to get critical health
care for myself, I want to go to somebody that's got a boatload of
experience. I don't want to go to somebody that does it every so often.
That's just something -- you know, I don't even want a lawn guy to cut
my lawn that only does it three times a year, okay. I want the
experience that's necessary.
Where we have something like this where it's probably the most
important thing government can do is supply them with something that
they can't do for themselves. We have a military organization because
it's so important. We want that chain of command where we can move
swiftly and efficiently, we have to have people that have experience,
confidence and are practiced practitioners. And I think there's every
reason in the world to want to have that unified across everybody that
does that in our community.
And one of the reasons I'm so concerned about it is that in my
district where we have people that are far away where distance equals
Page 153
February 9, 2016
time, I want to make sure that the people that show up there are the
very best, and I want them to have critical experience.
And so I don't think it's unfair to have the request made that we
did which focuses a lot of that on the medical director who should
function as the independent third-party oversight to all these different
organizations.
I'm very disappointed that we're as far apart as we apparently are,
because there seems to be an agreement that they would very much
like to have their independent license but they have an alternate system
for doing almost everything we've asked them to accomplish.
So I don't know where we're going. I tend to agree with
Commissioner Taylor that I don't think we're reaching agreement that
we need to work together. And I find that -- I'm just surprised that we
can't agree to function together better than we are at this point.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Hiller, I'm going to call on
you, but then we're going to take a 10-minute break for our court
stenographer. Then we'll come back and continue this discussion.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you.
The first thing I'd like to do is address the incorrect interpretation
of the statistics presented by Commissioner Nance. 600 times is the
number of times we have arrived late on the scene and that North
Naples has had to start ALS because we were not there. This does not
represent the number of times that North Naples has been involved in
providing ALS in total.
In fact, this statistic is so adverse to us it makes it clear that we
need North Naples paramedics to be present to provide ALS because
we can't get there in time.
And let me make something clear: ALS is minutes. The response
time for cardiac arrest is four minutes. Beyond four minutes you're
going into paralysis. And within 10 minutes you are dead. So if BLS
and ALS is being provided ahead of North Naples arriving, we've got a
Page 154
February 9, 2016
real problem, because we're not getting there in time. And we're
dependent on them to provide that ALS when we're not there, because
it is about the public safety.
And the next thing I'd like to address is what Commissioner
Nance said in that over the recent past things have been going so well.
Yeah, North Naples received its COPCN five years ago and it has
functioned very well. It has been working. And now all of a sudden to
deny them a COPCN without grounds and deny the public the service
that they provided that they need to provide because we don't have the
resources, we don't have enough trucks, we don't have enough people,
we don't have enough stations and we don't have the money to bolster
it to the level that we need to to give this community the level of
service it deserves.
As far as independent oversight, there is independent oversight.
The state provides the oversight. The state makes the decision whether
or not a paramedic is adequately trained and educated to deserve the
license that that individual paramedic has. And to suggest that
somehow our paramedics are inferior because they don't ride along and
that they're only really good if they do puts into question all the rest of
the paramedics throughout the State of Florida. So that means that
you're only safe in Collier County but if you cross the border and go to
Leon County where they don't have this ride-along program -- I'm
sorry, Lee County. Or if you go to Dade County or Leon County that
doesn't have this ride-along program, what does that mean, your life is
at risk and somehow the state is not looking out for our interest
because they haven't incorporated a ride-along program in the overall
training requirements of paramedics in order to renew their license?
That's absolute nonsense.
The bottom line is this is nothing more than a mere attempt to
circumvent the fact that there are certain fire districts that are not
financially sound and would not qualify for a COCPN or a state
Page 155
February 9, 2016
license. And you can't do indirectly what you can't do directly. And
that's exactly what's going on here. That's the real issue. This has
nothing to do about Panozzo's personality or Tober's personality or
ride-alongs. Those are all red herrings. That's the real issue here and
that's being avoided, and no one's addressing that.
And that's why -- what I cannot believe is that this Board is
putting the public's safety at risk in order to cover for their friends who
don't know how to run a business, called government, which is why
they're in such financial trouble. And in the meantime we've got
citizens who this Board is threatening to not have the level of care they
need to stay alive.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, with that, we're going to go on a
10-minute break. I'll see you back here at 3:08.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'll say one last thing when we get
back.
(Recess.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, will the meeting come to order one
more time.
Now, let's see, I have Commissioner Henning is up next.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I don't -- are we done with the
emotions part of this agenda item? There's a lot of emotions running
high here. But let's clarify some misunderstanding.
We have a response time, a written response time is it -- Chief
Kopka, eight minutes or less?
CHIEF KOPKA: For the record, Chief Kopka from EMS.
Yes, eight-minute travel time for the urban area which is west of
Collier Boulevard.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. And in Commissioner
Hiller's district you meet that 97 percent of the time, I think, North
Naples?
CHIEF KOPKA: It would depend on the area, and I don't have
Page 156
February 9, 2016
those numbers at my fingertip. I could pull some numbers for you, but
that county-wide response time is met.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's not a county-wide response
time, is it?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner Fiala, come on.
Please.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: This is really getting ridiculous,
the interruptions.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Let's try and wait our turn, okay?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So we're not late, right, as it was
stated?
CHIEF KOPKA: For our level of service standard, correct, we
are not.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Now, Chief Stolts got up
and said they initiated ALS by themselves when EMS wasn't there on a
response time of five minutes or less. Is that right, Chief? What was
your comment about -- you did it in -- what was the comment about
five minutes?
CHIEF STOLTS: It takes us, from the time we arrive on scene
and go through our BLS procedures, and it's an ALS call, we move
into our ALS procedures at that time.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. What is your average
response time?
CHIEF STOLTS: I don't have those numbers. Not a whole lot
different than Chief Kopka's, I'm sure.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Within eight minutes?
CHIEF STOLTS: No, we're less than eight minutes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We're less than eight minutes.
CHIEF STOLTS: Yes.
Page 157
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is it four minutes?
CHIEF STOLTS: No, it's not four minutes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What is NFP's stance for fire
departments for response time?
CHIEF STOLTS: NFPA standards?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah.
CHIEF STOLTS: Four minutes on fires, eight minutes on ALS.
But what I was talking about, those 600 calls where we had
ridden into the hospital, usually there's a period of time that we're
going to do BLS when we're on scene. It's about four to five minutes
before we start our ALS procedures. If your EMS department is not on
scene, your ambulance is not on scene within that period of time and
it's time to start ALS, that's when we're starting advanced life support.
Now, they may have a 10-minute response time or a 12-minute
response time with their ambulance. I'll tell you, this time of the year
they're very, very busy. And that's where we come in is backing them
up as being on scene and starting advanced life support --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, I'm just trying to cut
through the crap here. And Commissioner Hiller said EMS is late.
Chief Kopka, you and your staff are late.
I know better. You proved it wrong.
And Commissioner Hiller, you owe Chief Kopka and his staff an
apology for your statement.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, I don't.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Because you're absolutely
wrong.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: They're absolutely wrong, they are.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning, continue.
Or are you done?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm waiting for her apology. She
needs to retract that statement because it's not true.
Page 158
February 9, 2016
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Other than that, are you finished,
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Other than that, I'm finished.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you.
This is a very significant issue, because if in fact their response --
if fire's response time is eight minutes for ALS and they are there as
they claim -- could you please come to the podium, Chief Stolts?
If their response time for ALS is eight minutes and if they arrive,
you know, within that eight minutes and they're administering five
minutes of BLS -- let's say four to five minutes of BLS ahead of
commencing ALS, then in effect what our -- and our team isn't there,
it's the getting there plus the five minutes which means they're clearly
over the eight-minute standard in those ALS instances. Very clearly
over the eight-minute standard that we have for east of Collier.
And let me just point the hypocrisy of that statement. We have a
Board here that wants a uniform standard, but the response time for our
ALS -- or our paramedics east of Collier Boulevard is eight minutes.
What is it west of-- I'm sorry that's west of Collier Boulevard. What is
it east of Collier Boulevard?
CHIEF KOPKA: 12 minutes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: 12 minutes.
So this board that wants a uniform standard has a 12-minute
response time for Eastern Collier and an eight-minute response time
for Western Collier. So the people in Western Collier have a greater
chance of survival than the people in the Eastern Collier. Wow.
You know what? If we're so into a uniform standard, let's set the
entire county right now right here to eight minutes. Let's get it done.
Let's change the standard right now. Eight-minute response time.
Because it is completely unfair for Eastern Collier citizens not to have
the same level of service that those in Western Collier have.
Page 159
February 9, 2016
But again, there is no apology. It is very clear that if fire has an
eight-minute mandate and they're on the scene ahead of eight minutes,
as the Chief has represented, and they have already engaged in five
minutes of BLS, it is clear that we are not meeting the eight-minute
standard in the instances of the 600 calls where we are actually
transporting along -- and I say we, because it's my district, okay. It is
my constituency that's being adversely affected by this political game
that's going on on this dais.
My constituency, the residents of North Collier that are being put
at risk. So it's unequivocal that this statistics of 600 ride-alongs for
ALS where North Naples had to get to the hospital because they
started the care ahead of our EMS paramedics is indicative that we are
not making our times in those 600 instances. That's a real problem.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning, you're next, but
we have a public speaker, just one, okay, that has registered to speak.
Can we hear from them before I call on you?
MR. MILLER: Your speaker is Dr. Joseph Doyle.
DR. DOYLE: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Dr. Joseph
Doyle, resident of North Naples.
I attended the joint meeting on Monday, January 25th and found
it to be disappointing that we arrived at an impasse. And I'm sure
many of you feel the same way.
And I read of course Mr. Ochs' letter that was the BCC offer on
January 27th. I also attended the North Collier Fire District's special
meeting this past Friday, February 5th, and of course I've read the letter
from Commissioner Feder.
I have the following concerns: First of all, a settlement does not
resolve the legal issue of the COPCN versus an interlocal agreement.
We're going to be at this same spot next year, or whenever the
COPCN, if you decide to extend it and all that. And the legal question
has not been answered. So are we still going to pursue the legal
Page 160
February 9, 2016
question either with an Attorney General opinion or some type of
judicial opinion? We need to settle that. You guys keep going back
and forth, you know, and it hasn't been settled.
Second of all, the COPCN in my opinion creates an unnecessary
additional layer of bureaucracy and expense to the taxpayers of North
Collier. If we're using only an interlocal agreement with Collier's
EMS, then we would get Medical Director Tober with the package
with no additional salary to him. Instead, the way I see this
counteroffer that you've been given -- it really is a counter-office, the
COPCN in this scenario creates the need for a separate contract with
Tober and a separate payment, I would presume. And then Tober and
Panozzo, who would at that point be the deputy medical director, they
don't get along, so then we'd have to have an expensive liaison. This is
absolutely ridiculous.
The third thing I'd like to say is that the settlement should include
a provision for the staff of both the North Collier Fire District, as well
as the BCC to begin working on the renewal COPCN, as well as an
integration into a countywide uniform system that will eventually
create more reliance upon Collier EMS for ALS and phase out the
COPCN. The paramedics at North Collier can then be phased out and
some can be rehired by Collier EMS.
I think overall we need some type of Six Sigma process here.
And, you know, Commissioner Nance, you're going to be retiring
soon. You too, Commissioner Henning. I'd like to see you work on
this as your legacy over the next couple of months.
And like I said at the joint meeting, what's so special about
kicking this can down about a year? June 30th, you know, let's get
workshops, task forces, let's get this done. Because I see a lot of
inefficiencies here. I think, you know, we're trying to compensate for
what is perceived gap and Collier EMS. Maybe Collier EMS needs to
have some improvements as well, but we can't keep going on like this
Page 161
it
February 9, 2016
forever. We need to resolve this and have a uniformed system. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, I'm ready to go to staff
communications. Commissioner staff and communications.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Do we not -- I think we need to
give some dire-- I mean, well, I guess where are we, sir? What do we
need to do?
MR. KLATZKOW: You can either make a motion or move on to
the next item.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And what is the direction?
Because --
MR. KLATZKOW: There will be no direction if you go on to the
next item.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: None.
MR. KLATZKOW: None.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So there's no meeting of the staff
or anything like that?
MR. KLATZKOW: No, you have Commissioner -- well, you
have Mr. Ochs' letter of January 27th to Mr. Feder and then you have
Mr. Feder's letter back and you could either action or take no action.
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, just a couple of housekeeping points
here. Actually, more than housekeeping, ma'am. I'm going to ask Mr.
Klatzkow to help me with this a little bit.
At the conclusion of the letter from Mr. Feder there were two
requests: One was to extend the COPCN until March 31st of 2016 to
allow for more discussion, and there was also a request that the Board
agree to extend any Chapter 164 requirements while these discussions
were ongoing.
So Jeff, I believe if the Board doesn't act on the settlement then
we're still in the next phase of the 164?
Page 162
February 9, 2016
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah, I think the next phase is going to be
mediation.
MR. OCHS: So I just wanted to make sure the Board --
Commissioner Taylor asked, you know, what's next.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So that will go onward, no matter
-- whether we take action or not.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, unless you end this, that process will
continue.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay. And then the next step is
staff negotiations and then after that --
MR. KLATZKOW: I believe your next step is mediation at this
point in time.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And who mediates?
MR. KLATZKOW: We'll have to agree upon a mediator.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay.
MR. OCHS: In the meantime, if I'm understanding where I think
this is going, then we would as a staff at the appropriate time enact the
contingency plan that the Board had previously discussed and
authorized.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I'm waiting my turn.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, Commissioner Henning, you were
finished, right?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, I'm ready to move on.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All right.
Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, I would like to make a
motion that we direct staff to bring back a modification of the level of
service standard for response times to create uniformity in Collier
County and establish an eight-minute response time for east as well as
west of Collier Boulevard.
Page 163
February 9, 2016
You know, if we believe in a uniform standard, there should be a
uniform standard of response throughout this county, and I find it
unacceptable that Eastern Collier is not getting the same level of
service that Western Collier is getting.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do I hear a second?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, I -- let me understand clearly
where we are in this chain of events as we are scheduled right now.
The COPCN for North Collier Fire will expire on what date, sir?
MR. OCHS: February 25th at midnight.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: February 25th.
Are you prepared to institute our plan by that date at this
moment?
MR. OCHS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: You are prepared to enact it
effective at the expiration of the COPCN?
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Okay, that's all I wanted to know. I
would say stand at the ready to do so.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'd like to know if Dr. Lee, the Deputy
Medical Director, right, Dr. Lee?
MR. OCHS: That's correct, Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Could he ever like step in? Because it
seems that the two medical directors that we're discussing right now
cannot get along. And the reason the North Naples people got the
medical director was because of adverse relationships. So I was just
wondering, would that create a calmer situation if Dr. Lee just filled in
and -- I don't know what Dr. Lee does, I haven't seen anything about it.
Isn't he in Lee County?
MR. OCHS: No, he's your contract deputy medical director
Page 164
February 9, 2016
reporting and working directly for the Board, as is Dr. Tober.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: What job does he perform? I mean,
maybe he could be a peacemaker or something.
MR. OCHS: Chief Kopka, would you go over the primary duties
of the deputy medical director, please.
CHIEF KOPKA: Dr. Lee does work at Lee Memorial Trauma
Center. And he and Dr. Tober share responsibilities of all quality
assurance and oversight as well as overseeing training and performing
training along with ride time that they perform. So they both have
separate contracts with the Board and they share those responsibilities
at EMS.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Doesn't he work for Dr. Tober?
He's the deputy. He's not also the medical director. We only have one
medical director.
CHIEF KOPKA: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's Tober.
CHIEF KOPKA: Right, he's the deputy medical director and he
aids the medical director per his contract. A little birdie just told me
that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And it's on our agenda too.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Pardon me?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's on the consent agenda.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You mean his raise?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, Commissioner, I don't
know where you're getting your information that Dr. Tober can't get
along with Dr. Panozzo. I spoke to him just recently and in his
opinion, he says, you know, Dr. Panozzo in my opinion is a good
doctor. You know, I don't have any problem working with him. But
the way it's laid out, the district is telling me who I need to hire as a
Page 165
February 9, 2016
deputy, okay.
Now, if you're referring to Dr. Panozzo cannot get along with Dr.
Tober, maybe I could understand that, being that he was on the Public
Service Commission and stated no confidence in Dr. Tober. I can
understand your comment.
So it's not a two-way street here, as I see it. But, you know,
correct me if I'm wrong. If you talked to Dr. Tober --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I haven't talked to either one. You know,
it's just things I hear.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Rumors?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No, I don't think so. I mean -- but it's what
people feel inside.
And, you know, that's --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I always thought a rumor is
something when you don't --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, even here at the podium today it
was said that they don't get along. You heard that, where did Dr. Joe
Doyle go? He said it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, but did you hear from Dr.
Tober or Dr. Panozzo? So it has to be a rumor. You're not getting it
from -- I mean -- don't spread rumors.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, I'm not. But anyway --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You are.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Anyway, I was just asking that in case that
would have put, you know, just watered the fire down a little bit. I was
trying to find a way to find a happy compromise where everybody
could move forward. But I'm sorry that didn't work.
But anyway, we'll go on to -- Commissioner Taylor, were you
first?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes. And I was just going to add
that I think it's probably human nature to personalize disagreements,
Page 166
February 9, 2016
but this disagreement is fundamental in terms of protocol. That's the
problem. And unfortunately or I think for us fortunately Dr. Tober has
been the Collier County Medical Director for a significant period of
time and this protocol is, you know, attached to him. But it's the
protocol that's the issue.
And I think it's clever to make it personalities, but I agree, this is
rumor, I don't think it's accurate.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And we have Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yes. The protocol is not the issue.
There is a uniform protocol, and that's respected at I understand by
North Naples and by county EMS. So it's not about protocol at all.
In fact, the issue -- that is one issue that in our joint meeting
between the two boards was stipulated by the representative of North
Collier Fire and by County Manager Ochs as one being in complete
agreement. So no, it's not about protocol.
What's interesting to note and hasn't been stated on the record is
that Panozzo is the medical director for NCH's emergency operation
and conducts, you know, the training as well as the oversight of the
implementation of ALS to those who come in to NCH's emergency
room on a daily basis requiring those kind of services. And to have a
no confidence vote in a man who is engaging in the practice of
emergency medicine and is the medical director for NCH's emergency
facilities is really unbelievable.
The other thing is, is in light of the fact that -- you know, I just
want to address one last comment about the ride-along. Ride-alongs
that don't provide the ALS experience and that are BLS ride-alongs
don't go anywhere to advancing the experience standard which is being
set locally. Again, not the state standard that's uniform throughout
Florida but this local standard that we have. Requiring for example
ride-alongs for BLS, what good does that do? Doesn't really make a
whole lot of sense.
Page 167
February 9, 2016
So I'm not really sure where the benefit comes in. But I did want
to just highlight the points that Panozzo is a very experienced
physician when it comes to providing ALS and in the field. I'm not
sure when the last time -- and as I understand -- does Dr. Tober work
for NCH? He doesn't. I know he's on one of their advisory
committees. He's on that Wounded -- be he doesn't work for them.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: He works for Neighborhood --
CHIEF KOPKA: Yes, ma'am, he does, for NCH Wound Center?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Does he work for them or is he on
their advisory board? I thought he was merely on their advisory board.
I didn't know he actually worked for them. He doesn't work -- that's
the hyperbaric chamber?
CHIEF KOPKA: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But he works for the
Neighborhood Health Clinic, yeah. But he doesn't work for NCH, in
like emergency services.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: He just answered you.
MR. OCHS: He doesn't run the emergency room for the hospital.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right. That's all I wanted to -- I
just wanted to clarify and make sure that was in fact the case.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes. Look, I don't want to criticize
anybody's credentials. I think the grand majority of these people are
exceptional people. They are. They bring a lot of skills to the table.
But I can tell you one thing: As far as their management skills and
desire to cooperate, they're all professional dismal failures. They're
dismal failures; I'm sorry. If they were in the private sector, each of
them would no longer be employed --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Who's that?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: -- I promise you that.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Who?
Page 168
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Some of the people that don't want
to seek working together, ma'am. They just --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Dr. Panozzo is in the private
sector.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I didn't say anybody's name. Just
please let me speak, okay? You speak a lot, and I don't.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You do too.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I don't.
You know, we should aspire to greater things. I disagree with
Commissioner Hiller in saying that we can rely on the state to
supervise the quality of our education, training and experience. I can
think of very few counties in the State of Florida that I would trade
results with. Okay, you think the state's doing a great job? I wouldn't
trade results with some of the northern counties, and I won't start
naming them and insulting them, but I can tell you they don't provide
near the service that we do here. And that's not because the state is
going in there and doing it. That's because of our initiative here, and
there's credit across all lines.
So I'm just imploring people to reach out, try to look back at the
benefits of some of the things that I mentioned like independent
third-party oversight, unified information and trying to elevate our --
the skill and experience of our service providers to the highest possible
level. And we can all work together to get that done. I think
everybody can agree that if you have a great deal of experience you're
a better service provider. And we ought to be able to agree in ways that
we can get that done.
I don't want to take one example and say okay, this is the only
way we can do it. Maybe there's other ways we can do it. I haven't
heard any of that because we're not discussing these issues. We're not.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, I just want to interject here, because
you're right. Our agenda packet says to approve the substantial
Page 169
February 9, 2016
amendment and sub-recipient agreement between Collier County -- I'm
sorry, wrong one, wrong one. Okay, I can't even -- let me get it. I'm
just thinking we should go back. It just says to consider the district's
proposal.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We did.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And so if there's -- if we can't -- we can
argue all day, but we're not accomplishing anything and we're not
moving forward. We're just going sideways and having a little bit of
anger erupting here and there, not bad, but a little bit. So if we can't --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Just go to the next item.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Pardon me?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Go to the next item.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's what I was just going to say, was as
long as we're not going anyplace and if nobody can come up with ideas
for us to --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I have a proposal.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- reach an agreement, then I think we
need to move on.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I have a proposal.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: May I speak?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you.
The proposal I suggest is that our Board take our staffs
recommendation and award the COPCN to North Naples so that North
Naples can get its license to provide ALS.
And I just want to qualify that North Naples did not ask for
transport. Strictly ALS. And that once they have their license to
provide ALS, as we have ours, that we enter into an interlocal
agreement to provide mutual aid. And that gets it done.
Page 170
February 9, 2016
We are -- we have a standard of-- uniform standard of protocols.
Coming up with an agreement of mutual aid once both our agencies
are vested with the state permits is absolutely legal. And then we can
benefit and protect the public's interest.
The second thing I would recommend that is we immediately take
action to correct a very obvious disparity within the system that we're
all looking to have uniform and that is two separate response times for
Eastern and Western Collier. We need a uniform standard of response.
That is within our control to do right now. And we within Collier
EMS are not providing a uniform level of service to the residents of
Collier County.
If we believe that uniformity is the objective then let's put our
money where our mouth is and let's adopt an eight-minute response
time for Eastern Collier and Western Collier. There is no reason to
have two different standards. These people in Eastern Collier deserve
as rapid a response as the people in Western Collier.
And that would be my proposal. And I believe that would be in
the public's interest, we would be promoting truly the best interest of
all the constituency and it would be all for public safety, which is
critical and our first obligation.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, from there we'll move on to our
next subject.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And obviously the Board doesn't
agree.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What's the next item?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So much for uniformity and
service.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I think it's just —
Item #15
Page 171
February 9, 2016
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, that takes you to Item 15, staff and
Commission general communications.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. OCHS: I have just a couple of items. One is the reminder of
the upcoming workshops for the Board on March 1st at 9:00 a.m., not
1 :00 p.m. as your normal meeting time, but at 9:00 a.m. will be your
affordable housing -- affordable workforce housing workshop.
And then in April, on April 5th you'll have your annual workshop
with your CRA advisory boards. And that is at 1 :00 p.m.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Could we incorporate the CDBG
funding discussion during that CRA workshop? Could we maybe see
the list? Because obviously based on what Commissioner Fiala
recommended it does make sense to, you know, direct the monies
there, but for the objectives she outlined.
MR. OCHS: Let me suggest that I have that report to you on the
second meeting agenda in March so you have it in advance of the
workshop and then you'll have that presented in this forum and then --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, usually we do it the opposite.
We present it in the workshop so we can have the open discussion.
Then it comes to us. And then after having like this open discussion
we vote on it at the Board level. That's the whole purpose of--
MR. OCHS: Pleasure of the board.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: But the --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, we already gave that
direction.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- CRA is to cover all areas.
MR. OCHS: Pardon me?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We already gave that direction.
} COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes.
Page 172
February 9, 2016
MR. OCHS: You didn't talk about time, we just talked about
bringing it back to the Board.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: To come back to us.
MR. OCHS: Right.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And so my suggestion was to
incorporate it at the time of that CRA as a second item that we don't
just meet to talk about the CRA but we meet to talk about the CDBG
funding priorities, since we are talking about CRA, and then we can tie
the two together.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Right. Because like Naples Manor isn't in
the CRA budget.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right, exactly. But we still can
talk about it when we talk about the CDBG allocation.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I would prefer hearing about it in
advance, because I have a sense that the County Manager's being very
diplomatic and very measured in his response to what we're asking,
and I think before we put it in front of our wonderful CRA boards I
think we should --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Not in front of their boards, in
front of us. Nothing to do with --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Advisory committees.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, we're not putting it in front of
their advisory committees. They would disband and we would just
continue our discussion.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: But I think advance notice is -- we always
want to have as much information as we can when we come to one of
these meetings. We don't want to start out and then have nothing and
just say something like, you know, nobody told us that it was going to
be this discussion. I think that's a good idea.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Go ahead, right?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I've got some nods here.
Page 173
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So does that mean it is at the
workshop or not? I mean, it's like --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No, they're just going to give us some
preparation work, right?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: At the workshop?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Prepare for --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: No, they're going to give us some
advanced information and then I suppose if it networks in there we can
discuss it at that time, if it warrants.
Is that what you're saying, Mr. Ochs?
MR. OCHS: I'm saying that I have Board direction at this point
to bring it back on an agenda for an upcoming Board meeting.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I would agree.
MR. OCHS: That's what was voted on earlier today.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: And you're suggesting second
week in March?
MR. OCHS: Yes, I would plan --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Second meeting, I'm sorry.
MR. OCHS: -- in advance of your workshop, certainly.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I would concur, if there's any
support for that.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I would agree.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I think it should be workshopped.
But obviously they don't want to workshop it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, they're going to have a CRA
workshop.
MR. OCHS: Well, Commissioner, when we present it to the
Board there could always be a motion to defer an action until the
workshop. I mean, there's several ways. Doesn't mean you can't
address it during the workshop as well.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And just to be clear, I'm not
Page 174
February 9, 2016
suggesting that we're putting the CDBG agenda in front of the CRA
boards. I'm saying that, you know, they have their discussion, we
disband them and then we move on and talk about CDBG funding in a
workshop setting where we can have more open dialogue without any
commitments ahead of it coming before the Board. That's normally
how we do these issues. Like we did with landscaping. We had a little
discussion at the workshop so we wouldn't have to have the prolonged
debate at the Board level.
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, that was all I had.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine.
County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKO W: I have nothing.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, I'm going to start off this time. It's
not very polite of me to do that, but I got this letter from the Greater
Naples Fire Rescue District, so I thought I'd read it all to you and in
your comments you can --
MR. OCHS: Ma'am, I've got it on the visualizer as well, so --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, good, thank you.
The Greater Naples Fire Rescue District and the Board of Fire
Commissioners is committed to safeguarding the lives of its residents.
This is accomplished by providing effective emergency responses and
education. According to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety
Commission, there were an estimated 10,500 injuries treated in U.S.
hospital emergency departments during calendar year 2014. The
majority of injuries was caused by fireworks are a result of misuse by
consumers and often associated with the use of illegal fireworks. Even
when used properly, fireworks are dangerous explosives that can cause
serious injury or death. The Board of Fire Commissioners has genuine
concern that the continued approval of firework sales in Collier County
will have adverse effect on the citizens. Most specifically the approval
of roadside tent sales only encourages the purchase and use of these
Page 175
February 9, 2016
dangerous fireworks, many of which are illegally sold through a
loophole in state law that allows their use for agricultural exemptions.
The Greater Naples Fire Rescue District Board of Commissioners does
not support the sale or use of illegal fireworks in Collier County and
encourages the Board of County Commissioners to take action,
prohibiting temporary road site tents for the sale of such fireworks and
condoning the sale and use of illegal fireworks.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Condoning and not condoning the
sale and use of illegal fireworks.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It says and condoning.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right. And not condoning.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: They say prohibiting -- yeah, you're right.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's okay. I just want to make sure
everyone understood that we're not endorsing illegal fireworks,
because that's what the letter is asking.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It does say --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Prohibit tents, but just --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, good catch.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- like go illegal. Let's go
underground.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, I didn't know if anybody wanted to
comment on that but that was my thing for today.
And my last thing to say is happy Valentine's Day.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: That's nice.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I wore my red.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I talk about the fireworks?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, you can be next on the --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But I want to address what you've
presented.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Whatever you want. This is our time to
talk.
Page 176
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I would like to ask the County
Attorney, what's our jurisdiction with respect to fireworks?
MR. KLATZKOW: You're preempted by state law.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, no kidding.
MR. KLATZKOW: That's the loophole. There's nothing illegal
about a loophole. But you're preempted by the state.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So that basically --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Nullifies what --
MR. KLATZKOW: It becomes a Sheriffs issue. There are
certain fireworks that are illegal, it's a state issue, and the Sheriff can
deal with that. But from ordinance standpoint we're pretty much done.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So there's basically -- I mean, can
you let Kingman Shultz know that we can't do anything because of the
state preemption?
MR. KLATZKOW: I would be happy to.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, because, I mean, we don't
want to ignore his effort to communicate with us. And very clearly, I
mean, he is right, the injuries from fireworks --
MR. KLATZKOW: But typically --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- are terrible. I mean, July 4th and
the emergency room seem to, you know --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Maybe not any more than the
Super Bowl.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: The Super Bowl is benign. I don't
know anyone shooting off--
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Adult beverages and a combination
with any of the above makes --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, that's true.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Does that preemption also allow them to
get these tent sales going?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah.
Page 177
February 9, 2016
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It does.
Okay, next, Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you.
When Commissioner Fiala and I were up in Tallahassee, you
know, lobbying on our issues, and I think we had a very, very
successful time, we have our lobbyist Brandon who will be bringing a
report back to the Board, you know, sharing all the things we did. And
it was actually exhausting. I mean, we've never had a more productive
session, and I want to publicly commend Brandon for pulling so many
meetings together to the point that I think Commissioner Fiala and I
when we went home went like thank God that's over. I mean, it was
like non-stop.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We were busy.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: We worked so hard.
But that being said, we also had a little bit of downtime and in the
evening of my last night, my son took me to these microbreweries,
because I had really never experienced a true microbrewery. And what
I witnessed was unbelievable. That's actually a master brewer. And
that is a fledgling microbrewery. There are a few other pictures that
show you. These are the vats of beer that they brew. And I actually
watched him like throw in the culture.
And what was amazing, and this is my son holding one of those
beers playing bocce ball. And the reason I share this with you, it was
like unbelievable to see how charming this all was and how the
community was involved and you had all these professionals and you
had elected officials and you had students, and it was great. I mean,
it's like a home microculture. And I think it would really work well.
Now, I know we have a microbrewery coming in by the Triangle.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No, on Bayshore.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Where is it? On Bayshore. Sorry,
on Bayshore.
Page 178
February 9, 2016
And I think it really would be great if this county, you know,
started looking at fostering a microbrewery cluster and seriously look
at the bocce ball. Because they do the bocce ball out at night and
you've got all these people and it like promotes activity, not just people
sitting in a bar drinking but it's a very, very social, very fun thing to do.
And I think it really would go a long way towards tourism and, you
know, promoting the quality of life that we have here. We need some
other entertainment besides, you know, just restaurants or a nightclub,
like the nightclubs that we have at Mercado. And this is a really fun
alternative.
So just something to keep in mind. I have the name of the owner
of this particular microbrewery and I can give you the contact
information. I told him I thought it was a great concept and if he, you
know, could help us out, you know, what makes it attractive to
someone who wants to start a microbrewery to do it here.
From a tourism perspective I think it's something that would be
great for the community. I think it would be a lot of fun. And I
personally like I said had never attended it. It was a blast. As long as,
you know, the breweries we establish name beers after us, of course.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. That was a fun one.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I took my family to the Martin
Luther King parade and activities after that and had a wonderful lunch
served by Faith Unity Church, which is in Golden Gate. And one of
our long-term employees was serving there. Wanda. Wanda Warren.
She works down there in permitting, one of the front desk people when
you go in there.
Well anyways, I had an opportunity to talk to her because I was
trying to do business down there. And we had a great conversation.
She invited me to her church. What a great experience that is.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: It's a terrific church.
Page 179
February 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You've been?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yeah, I've been a number of times.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Which one is that?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: This is Faith Lutheran.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: No, Faith Unity Missionary Baptist
Church, right there on 951 .
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I met the pastor. I was at that
parade as well and it was amazing.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So anyways, we know that
Commissioner Hiller is done with her time and it's my time.
And you can get a great meal there with service. So I would
encourage any of the Commissioners to go. And especially
Commissioner Taylor, I know that you like the diversity and that. And
it's not in a neighborhood, you won't be impacting it when you go
down there.
It's right on Collier Boulevard. Actually, it's on a collector road
over there. It's -- but they're having their mission tent revival this
month. And I think on the 24th or something like that they're having a
super dinner over there for everybody to come to. I think you'd really
enjoy it.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: That's terrific.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sounds good.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's a brick church building.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So for any of the listening audience who
might also want to go there, because you've given it a nice sound, why
don't you give us the location again. You said 951, but on a side
street?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, it's on 39th Street, right
across from Green Boulevard. And it's a brick church, white steeple.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And anybody's welcome to go to that
Page 180
February 9, 2016
dinner?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Absolutely.
Well, anyways, I'm going to have -- I have to have Leo give a
card to have the minister do our invocation. Maybe the next one.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I think they just got a new pastor,
didn't they, Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: They did. And, you know,
what's really interesting, I was going to wait 'til he comes here. Donna
Fiala had something to do with him coming to Collier County. And
she doesn't realize this. But he came down here because of the
neighborhood stabilization program that the Board accepted the money
from the feds, and a lot of it went to Habitat for Humanity. So he went
to work for Habitat for Humanity for a while to set up this program
and found out this church didn't have a minister.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, that's so cool.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: They're actually very active in the
community and been active for years. One of the elders there is one of
Gail's ex-principals, Oliver Fipps.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, that's where I know him
from.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, he was at Estates Elementary,
Commissioner. And he does all the volunteer work with the drum
lines and the high school drum lines. And of course he was a graduate
of Florida A&M University and very active in the drum line. So he's a
percussion expert. And he's one of the reasons why we have some
outstanding drum lines in Collier County is because Oliver Fipps. He's
done a lot of work. And his wife is very active too. Both of them.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And by the way, the NAACP
banquet is --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Coming up.
Page 181
Februa ry 9, 2016
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- the 20th, February 20th.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, are you finished?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I don't know, Commissioner
Hiller, is it okay? Am I finished?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I don't know. I have to think about
it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: That's a maybe so, Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So we move on to Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Okay, pretty active out here. Of
course our rain has been the order of the day this year in Collier
County and of course we're getting a lot of concerns and I wanted to
mention a couple of things.
I had an opportunity to attend one of the meetings of the Gulf
Citrus Growers Association which happened to be at the newly
expanded IFAS facility north of Immokalee, the Southwest Florida
Research and Education Center. And they were discussing their
struggle with rain. Rain has negatively impacted -- excessive rains
have negatively impacted all agribusiness in the southern half of
Florida very, very seriously this year. Because as you remember, not
only did we have excessive heat this fall, the fall of 2015, but higher
rains started in September with this El Nino weather pattern. And it's
continued right along. And the net effect is it has put a tremendous
amount of disease into the crops, it has limited fruit production, the
tomato crops are well below average in volume, although the price is
very high. So the producers are struggling. Farmers such as Alfie
Oaks, who many of you kept up with him, really struggling to make
numbers. And I think it's going to unfortunately have a pretty negative
impact on us.
As far as citrus is concerned, you know, our projection for
production in the State of Florida was reduced from approximately 100
Page 182
February 9, 2016
million boxes, which is kind of where it's been for a few years, down
to below 70. I think the latest correction was down to 69 million
boxes. And because of the heat, the insects that spread the greening
disease are more active. They haven't really gone through a dormant
season which is making our farmers pursue their pesticide programs
and spraying programs more aggressively this time of the year than
they would normally. And in the face of all this rain, you know, it's
very, very expensive, costly and difficult for them to do that.
So they're struggling forward, but expect -- I don't want anybody
to expect anything but some rather disappointing news from our
farming community. But they're soldiering forward. Very supportive
of the expansion of the Research and Education Center. I know
Commissioner Fiala and Commissioner Hiller both went to
Tallahassee to support that. A lot of energy from our legislative
delegations, so those guys are really moving ahead and very, very
excited.
An additional thing that happened in the ag related field was I had
the opportunity to attend the groundbreaking of the renovation of
Farmworkers Village, which after almost a decade of work is going to
start now being supported by a U.S.D.A. grant of$9 million. So that's
absolutely wonderful for the renovation of that facility. It's not only
the -- you know, the number one thing is it's going to support families.
It's going to give families a great place to live in Immokalee, it's going
to completely renew that facility, it's going to support our industry, it's
going to add some great new critical mass and structures to Immokalee
as a community. It's going to help. That's a wonderful thing.
And I do believe that -- the managers from the U.S.D.A. actually
shocked me when I had some secondary conversations with them
about our food-based accelerator effort in Immokalee and that they
indicated that the U.S.D.A was in full support of that and wanted to
engage us because they want to support our effort.
Page 183
February 9, 2016
So if we're fortunate enough to get some support from the
legislature this year to get that back on track, together with the
University of Florida, it looks to me like we have an opportunity to
engage the U.S.D.A. to further support our effort, which could be a
very, very nice development for Immokalee in our economic
development. So all good news.
Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you. That's good news. I
like it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Well, I also have good news.
When I was first elected, a gentleman called Brad Estes paid me a visit
with pictures of how the August, 2014 flood had affected Poinciana
Village. And so then of course I asked County Manager if Jerry Kurtz
could come up. And it was a very tense meeting. Very tense meeting.
And I'd like to report that a year later -- and I asked Brad at the time, I
said where's your association? Well, we don't have an association. It
just kind of fell off.
And so -- but I'd like to report that I got a call and both Jerry and
Brad came up to the office in smiles. And it is a textbook example of,
number one, the county responding to an older neighborhood and
instead of saying it can't be done, went in there and worked with them
to the point where swales are being dug, and talking to the neighbors
of the importance of the swales and understanding that these cement
pads were from mobile homes and they could dig them up, and Brad
establishing the association, and sending out newsletters. And it is to
me such a clear example of how much -- we just -- the county has such
a we can do this, and you are important, taxpayer, and we will help you
any way we can. And if there's anything that's more important than
stormwater -- well, let me put it this way, there's a lot of things. But
stormwater and what we do with it and how it affects older areas is so
Page 184
February 9, 2016
important.
So I think we're in very, very good hands with Jerry Kurtz and the
Growth Management Department and the staff And you are to be
commended. You are to be commended. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Good. I'm going to just wind this up by a
quick comment. While I was up in Tallahassee, it was a great visit.
And as Commissioner Hiller said, it was very, very productive. And
one of the things, I was really beating the drum for the IFAS center,
because we were hoping to get 3.9. Part of the house said no, they
want 3.5. The other part said -- the Senate I think said they want just
3.5, the house said 3.9. But as we lobbied our own delegation and I
challenged them to fight for that last $400, because that will be
building our greenhouses and that will round out that whole picture.
And then somebody slipped, and it wasn't one of the legislators, it
was an aide, and he said he thinks they're even going to be aside from
what we're asking -- and all of them agreed that they'll fight for that --
aside from what they're asking they also said I think that we're going to
be building dormitories there too. Yeah. I mean, that is really
outstanding. Now, I don't know who's building it, he just slipped and
told me that. Brandon was there, so he heard. So that was a good
news item.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's really great. You know, it is
Valentine's Day this weekend. So happy Valentine's Day.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Happy Valentine's Day to everyone.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You know what Shakespeare said
about love, right?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: If love is blind, love cannot hit the
mark. So happy Valentine's Day.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Meeting is adjourned.
Page 185
February 9, 2016
**** Commissioner Nance moved, seconded by Commissioner Hiller
and carried unanimously that the following items under the Consent
and Summary Agendas be approved and/or adopted ****
Item #16A1
AUTHORIZE THE PUBLICATION OF A NOTICE
ANNOUNCING THE INTENT TO EXCHANGE A 0.0471 ACRE
PARCEL OF LAND IN RETURN FOR A 0.60 ACRE PARCEL OF
LAND FOR RIGHT-OF-WAY REQUIRED FOR THE WOLFE
ROAD/PRISTINE DRIVE LOOP ROAD — LOCATED IN
SECTION 34, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST
Item #16A2
RELEASE OF A CODE ENFORCEMENT LIEN WITH AN
ACCRUED VALUE OF $573,330.04 FOR PAYMENT OF $2,000,
IN THE CODE ENFORCEMENT ACTION ENTITLED BOARD
OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS V. JAMES C. MARSHALL
AND SHERRY MARSHALL, CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
CASE NO. 2002120972 A/K/A (CEB 2004-72), RELATING TO
PROPERTY LOCATED AT 820 20TH AVENUE NW, COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA — FOR VARIOUS CODE VIOLATIONS
THAT WERE BROUGHT INTO COMPLIANCE ON DECEMBER
9, 2015 BY THE NEW OWNER WHO PURCHASED IT AT A
TAX DEED SALE
Item #16A3
RECORDING THE FINAL PLAT OF HACIENDA LAKES OF
NAPLES PHASE II, (APPLICATION NUMBER PPL-
Page 186
February 9, 2016
PL20150002341) APPROVAL OF THE STANDARD FORM
CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT AND
APPROVAL OF THE AMOUNT OF THE PERFORMANCE
SECURITY — WITHHOLDING THE CERTIFICATES OF
OCCUPANCY UNTIL THE REQUIRED IMPROVEMENTS
HAVE RECEIVED PRELIMINARY ACCEPTANCE; DELAYING
THE RECORDING OF THE PLAT UNTIL SUITABLE SECURITY
AND A CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT
HAS BEEN ACCEPTED AND APPROVED BY THE COUNTY
ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
Item #16A4
RESOLUTION 2016-23: FINAL APPROVAL OF THE REQUIRED
IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF CAMERON
COMMONS UNIT ONE APPLICATION NUMBER AR-12061
WITH THE REQUIRED IMPROVEMENTS BEING PRIVATELY
MAINTAINED AND AUTHORIZING THE RELEASE OF THE
MAINTENANCE SECURITY
Item #16A5
CLERK OF COURTS TO RELEASE A CASH BOND IN THE
AMOUNT OF $35,060 WHICH WAS POSTED AS A GUARANTY
FOR EXCAVATION PERMIT NUMBER 60.089-3
(PL20140001402) FOR WORK ASSOCIATED WITH CORSICA
AT TALIS PARK — THE AS-BUILT LAKE CROSS SECTIONS
HAVE BEEN RECEIVED AND THE LAKES HAVE BEEN
INSPECTED BY THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW DIVISION
Item #16A6 — Moved to Item #11D (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Page 187
February 9, 2016
Item #16A7
CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE PROJECT AGREEMENT NO.
15C01-SOUTH MARCO ISLAND BEACH RENOURISHMENT
FOR COST SHARE REIMBURSEMENT FUNDING WITH THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL
PROTECTION (FDEP) BEACH MANAGEMENT FUNDING
ASSISTANCE PROGRAM FOR PARTIAL REIMBURSEMENT
OF DAMAGES CAUSED BY TROPICAL STORM FAY — AN
AGREEMENT ENDING MARCH 31, 2018
Item #16A8
THE LIST OF PROPOSED PROJECTS TO BE SUBMITTED FOR
THE FY 2017 BIG CYPRESS BASIN LOCAL PARTNERSHIP
GRANTS PROGRAM — FOR THE COMBINED STORMWATER
AND UTILITY PROJECT IN THE NAPLES PARK COMMUNITY
THAT INCLUDES A GRANT REQUEST OF $800,000, TO
REPLACE AN AGED WASTEWATER MAINS, FORCE MAINS
AND PUMP STATIONS AND IMPROVE WATER QUALITY
PRIOR TO DISCHARGING INTO VANDERBILT LAGOON;
AND FOR THE HALDEMAN CREEK WATER CONTROL
REPLACEMENT PROJECT THAT INCLUDES A GRANT
REQUEST OF $500,000, TO REPLACE A WEIR AND CONTROL
WATER DISCHARED INTO NAPLES BAY AND PROVIDE
FLOOD CONTROL UPSTREAM OF HALDEMAN CREEK
Item #16A9 — Withdrawn (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE A HOLD HARMLESS
Page 188
February 9, 2016
AND INDEMNITY AGREEMENT, AND PAYMENT BOND IN
THE AMOUNT OF $342,991 .09 IN LIEU OF THE REQUIRED
FINAL WAIVER OF LIENS FROM THE UTILITY
CONTRACTOR FOR THE PRELIMINARILY ACCEPTANCE OF
THE WATER AND SEWER FACILITIES ASSOCIATED WITH
TAMIAMI CROSSINGS SHOPPING CENTER (PL20160000023)
Item #16B1
CRA RESOLUTION 2016-24: THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS (BCC) AS THE COLLIER COUNTY
COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY (CRA) APPROVE
THE SUBMISSION OF THE ATTACHED LETTER OF INTENT
AND RELATED RESOLUTION AND MOU TO THE
SOUTHWEST FLORIDA REGIONAL PLANNING COUNCIL
(SWFRPC) MEMORIALIZING THE CRA'S ROLE AS AN
ACTIVE PARTNER IN CARRYING OUT THE TASKS RELATED
TO THE FEDERAL PROMISE ZONE DESIGNATION FOR
IMMOKALEE
Item #16D1
RESOLUTION 2016-25: A RESOLUTION SUPERSEDING
RESOLUTION NO. 2015-078 AND AUTHORIZE COLLIER
AREA TRANSIT TO IMPLEMENT A CORPORATE EMPLOYEE
DISCOUNT TRANSIT PASS PROGRAM WITH THE GOAL OF
ENCOURAGING THE USE OF TRANSIT
Item #16D2
FLORIDA FISH AND WILDLIFE CONSERVATION
Page 189
February 9, 2016
COMMISSION HABITAT ASSISTANCE FUNDING FOR
MANAGEMENT ACTIVITIES AT THE CONSERVATION
COLLIER NANCY PAYTON PRESERVE — LOCATED EAST OF
GOLDEN GATE CITY, NORTH OF BRANTLEY BLVD. AND
EAST OF BLUE SAGE DRIVE, THE PINE FLATWOODS
PRESERVE PROVIDES AN UPLAND HABITAT FOR THE
GOPHER TORTOISE
Item #16D3
AN ASSIGNMENT, ASSUMPTION AND AMENDMENT OF A
SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE FOUNDATION
FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED, INC. AND
COMMUNITY ASSISTED AND SUPPORTED LIVING, INC.,
TRANSFERRING SUBRECIPIENT RESPONSIBILITIES FOR
THREE NEIGHBORHOOD STABILIZATION PROGRAM
PROPERTIES FROM THE FORMER TO THE LATTER. THIS
ITEM HAS NO NEW FISCAL IMPACT — LOCATED AT 1924
46TH TERRACE SW; 5283 24TH AVENUE SW AND 5271 24TH
AVENUE SW IN GOLDEN GATE
Item #16D4 — Moved to Item #11E (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #16D5
THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN AN AGREEMENT AND ITS
ADDENDUM WITH THE AMERICAN RED CROSS TO FUND
SWIM LESSONS THROUGH THE AQUATICS CENTENNIAL
PROGRAM — OFFERED IN THE SPRING AT THE GOLDEN
GATE AQUATICS FACILITY AND THE IMMOKALEE SPORTS
COMPLEX IN THE SUMMER AND THAT INCLUDES ALL
Page 190
February 9, 2016
PRESCHOOL AND LEARN TO SWIM LEVELS 1-3 CLASSES
Item #16D6
AN EXTENSION TO THE STATE HOUSING INITIATIVES
PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM GRANT EXPENDITURE
DEADLINE FOR FISCAL YEAR 2012/2013 GRANTED BY THE
FLORIDA HOUSING FINANCE CORPORATION — EXTENDING
THE DEADLINE TO FEBRUARY 29, 2016
Item #16D7
ACKNOWLEDGING FEBRUARY 12, 2016, AS COLLIER AREA
TRANSIT'S FIFTEEN YEAR ANNIVERSARY AND TO
AUTHORIZE COMPLIMENTARY RIDES TO ALL TRANSIT
RIDERS ON THAT DATE
Item #16E1
AWARD ITB #15-6474R, "MEDICAL OVERSIGHT PHYSICIAN
(PART A) FOR COLLIER COUNTY AND EMPLOYMENT
PHYSICALS & DRUG TESTING (PART B)" TO ADVANCE
MEDICAL OF NAPLES, LLC IN THE ESTIMATED ANNUAL
AMOUNT OF $134,083.50
Item #16E2
A ONE-YEAR EXTENSION TO THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT
WITH THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF THE
INTERIOR NATIONAL PARK SERVICE BIG CYPRESS
NATIONAL PRESERVE FOR THE CARNSTOWN SHERIFF'S
Page 191
February 9, 2016
SUBSTATION AND TO APPROVE A BUDGET AMENDMENT
ON BEHALF OF THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE — EXTENDING THE
PERMIT TO AUGUST 30, 2016
Item #16E3
RESOLUTION 2016-26: A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' CHAIRPERSON TO
EXECUTE DEED CERTIFICATES FOR THE SALE OF BURIAL
PLOTS AT LAKE TRAFFORD MEMORIAL GARDENS
CEMETERY DURING THE 2016 CALENDAR YEAR, ON
BEHALF OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES
DEPARTMENT
Item #16E4
INCREASING COMPENSATION FOR THE COUNTY MEDICAL
DIRECTOR BY 5% IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE COLLIER
COUNTY EMERGENCY SERVICES MEDICAL DIRECTOR
AGREEMENT — FOR AN INCREASE OF $3,882.38 FOR FY16
PAID FROM THE EMS OPERATING BUDGET
Item #16E5
INCREASING COMPENSATION FOR THE COUNTY DEPUTY
MEDICAL DIRECTOR BY 5% IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE
COLLIER COUNTY EMERGENCY SERVICES DEPUTY
MEDICAL DIRECTOR AGREEMENT — FOR AN INCREASE OF
$2600.00 FOR FY16 PAID FROM THE EMS OPERATING
BUDGET
Page 192
February 9, 2016
Item #16E6
THE ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS PREPARED BY THE
PROCUREMENT SERVICES DIVISION FOR MODIFICATIONS
TO WORK ORDERS, CHANGE ORDERS, SURPLUS PROPERTY
AND OTHER ITEMS AS IDENTIFIED — COVERING THE
PERIOD DECEMBER 16, 2015 THROUGH JANUARY 20, 2016
Item #16F1
AMENDMENT #1 TO CONTRACT #15-6439 HOSTING
AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND SPIRIT
PROMOTIONS, LLC; PROMOTER FOR THE US OPEN
PICKLEBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS, FOR ACCESS TO COUNTY
PARK PROPERTY TO PROVIDE A STADIUM COURT FOR
THE CHAMPIONSHIP TOURNAMENT AND ACCEPT THE
DONATION OF THE UPGRADED COURT
Item #16F2
A TOURIST TAX CATEGORY "B" FUNDING UP TO $6,450 TO
SUPPORT THE TWO UPCOMING FY 16 PICKLEBALL
TOURNAMENTS AT EAST NAPLES COMMUNITY PARK AND
MAKE A FINDING THAT THESE EXPENDITURES PROMOTE
TOURISM — THE ATLANTIC SOUTH REGION PICKLEBALL
CHAMPIONSHIP HELD FEBRUARY 11 - 14, 2016 AND EAST
NAPLES SKILL LEVEL PICKLEBALL TOURNAMENT THAT
WILL BE HELD MARCH 18 - 20, 2016
Item #16F3
Page 193
February 9, 2016
A TOURIST DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL CATEGORY "B" OUT
OF CYCLE GRANT AGREEMENT FOR SPIRIT PROMOTIONS,
LLC IN THE AMOUNT OF $25,000 TO FUND AIRING AND
PRODUCTION COSTS FOR A PRIME TIME SPECIAL
HIGHLIGHTING THE 2016 US OPEN PICKLEBALL
CHAMPIONSHIPS IN COLLIER COUNTY, AUTHORIZE THE
CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE THE AGREEMENT AND MAKE A
FINDING THAT THIS EXPENDITURE PROMOTES TOURISM —
WILL BE HELD APRIL 26 - MAY 1, 2016 AT EAST NAPLES
COMMUNITY PARK
Item #16F4
REVISED TOURIST DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL GRANT
APPLICATION FORMS FOR CATEGORY B AND C-2 AND
SPORTS EVENT ASSISTANCE FOR FY17 (OCTOBER 1, 2016 -
SEPTEMBER 30, 2017) REFLECTING CHANGES DISCUSSED
AND RECOMMENDED AT THE TDC GRANT WORKSHOP ON
JANUARY 13, 2016 AND TDC MEETING ON JANUARY 25,
2016, AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS ITEM PROMOTES
TOURISM
Item #16F5 — Continued to the February 23, 2016 BCC Meeting
(Per Agenda Change Sheet)
RECOMMENDATION TO AWARD ITB #15-6522 - TOURIST
FULFILLMENT SERVICES TO PHASE V OF FLORIDA, LLC.
AND MAKE A FINDING THAT THIS ITEM PROMOTES
TOURISM
Item #16F6
Page 194
February 9, 2016
A REPORT COVERING BUDGET AMENDMENTS IMPACTING
RESERVES AND MOVING FUNDS IN AN AMOUNT UP TO
AND INCLUDING $25,000 AND $50,000, RESPECTIVELY — BA
#16-214 MOVING $25,000 FROM THE ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT OPERATING BUDGET TO THE
ACCELERATOR PROJECT BUDGET
Item #16H1
RESOLUTION 2016-27: APPOINTING TWO MEMBERS TO THE
CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD — REAPPOINTING ROBERT C.
ASHTON AND LIONEL L'ESPERANCE BOTH WITH TERMS
EXPIRING ON FEBRUARY 14, 2019
Item #16H2
RESOLUTION 2016-28: APPOINT ONE MEMBER TO THE
PELICAN BAY SERVICES DIVISION BOARD — APPOINTING
JACOM DAMOUNI REPRESENTING COMMERCIAL/
BUSINESS INTERESTS AND FILLING A VACANT TERM
EXPIRING MARCH 31, 2017
Item #16H3
RESOLUTION 2016-29: FORMALLY REQUESTING THAT THE
FLORIDA COMMUNITIES TRUST ALLOW A LONG TERM,
RENEWABLE LEASE BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND
THE GOODLAND ARTS ALLIANCE FOR COUNTY-OWNED
PROPERTY AT 326 PETTIT DRIVE, GOODLAND, FLORIDA
Page 195
February 9, 2016
Item #1611
MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS TO FILE FOR RECORD WITH
ACTION AS DIRECTED
Page 196
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
February 9, 2016
1. MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS TO FILE FOR RECORD WITH ACTION AS DIRECTED:
A. CLERK OF COURTS:
1) Items to be Authorized by BCC for Payment:
B. DISTRICTS:
C. OTHER:
1) Collier County Water & Wastewater Authority:
November 23, 2015 Meeting Minutes;
Final Order No. 2016-01 adopted January 26, 2016
February 9, 2016
Item #16J1
TO RECORD IN THE MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS, THE CHECK NUMBER (OR OTHER
PAYMENT METHOD), AMOUNT, PAYEE, AND PURPOSE FOR
WHICH THE REFERENCED DISBURSEMENTS WERE DRAWN
FOR THE PERIODS BETWEEN JANUARY 14 AND JANUARY
27, 2016 PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTE 136.06
Item #16K1
A JOINT MOTION AND STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT IN
THE AMOUNT OF $12,000 FOR PARCELS 102DUE AND
102TCE, IN THE LAWSUIT CAPTIONED COLLIER COUNTY V.
HENRY ALLEN FISH, ET AL, CASE NO. 2015-CA-1810,
REQUIRED FOR THE INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENT
PROJECT NO. 60016 (FISCAL IMPACT: $4,870) — LOCATED IN
SECTION 32, TOWNSHIP 46 SOUTH, RANGE 29 EAST IN
IMMOKALEE
Item #16K2
AN INCREASE TO THE PURCHASE ORDER FOR NABORS,
GIBLIN & NICKERSON, P.A. ("NABORS GIBLIN") RELATING
TO LEGAL SERVICES IN THE CASE OF COLLIER COUNTY V.
ORANGE TREE UTILITY CO., ET AL, CASE NO. 2014-CA-
001434 AND ALL WORK RELATED TO CONCLUDING THE
ACQUISITION AND INTEGRATION OF THE ORANGE TREE
UTILITY COMPANY INTO THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER-
SEWER DISTRICT
Page 197
February 9, 2016
Item #17A — Moved to Item #9B (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 4:02 p.m.
BOARD OF COLLIER COUNTY COMMISSION
BOARD OF ZOINING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
4• 1)114'91:4_,
D NNA FIALA, Chairman
ATTEST:
DWIGHT E BROCK, CLERK
1; \' '.-"Ns)(VCWIL--)6i1:1 A'' '-'
1 ,):Attest as to Chairman's
cionature only. R,
These minutes approved by the board on . 20 Up
pp Y ��JV'1 �
as presented 1,.--'' or as corrected
Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Reporting Service, Inc., by
Cherie' R. Nottingham.
Page 198