BCC Minutes 01/23/2001 RJanuary 23, 2001
REGULAR MEETING OF JANUARY 23, 2001
OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, and also acting
as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of
such special districts as have been created according to law and
having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m.
in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F' of the Government
present:
CHAIRMAN:
VICE-CHAIRMAN:
ALSO PRESENT:
JAMES D. CARTER, Ph.D.
PAMELA S. MAC'KIE
JIM COLETTA
DONNA FIALA
TOM HENNING
TOM OLLIFF, County Administrator
DAVID C. WEIGEL, County Attorney.
Page I
COLLIER COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
AGENDA
Tuesday, January 23, 2001
9:00 a.m.
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM MUST REGISTER
PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER
PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 99-22 REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS SHALL,
BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED
TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE
CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
REQUESTS TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT ON THIS
AGENDA MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING WITH EXPLANATION TO THE COUNTY
MANAGER AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE MEETING AND WILL BE
HEARD UNDER "PUBLIC PETITIONS".
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A
RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY
NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE,
WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE
APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
ALL REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO FIVE (5) MINUTES UNLESS
PERMISSION FOR ADDITIONAL TIME IS GRANTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY ACCOMMODATION IN
ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING, YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO
YOU, TO THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE
COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301 EAST
TAMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (941) 774-8380; ASSISTED LISTENING
DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN THE COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M.
1. INVOCATION - Reverend Donna Bartleson, Golden Gate United Methodist Church
1
January 23, 2001
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
APPROVAL OFAGENDAS
APPROVAL OFCONSENTAGENDA.
APPROVAL OF SUMMARY AGENDA
APPROVALOFREGULARAGENDA.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
PROCLAMATIONS AND SERVICE AWARDS
A. PROCLAMATIONS
1)
Proclaiming January 21-27, 2001 as National Jaycee Recognition Week in
Collier County. To be accepted by Ms. Angela Robinson, Jaycees
President 2001 and Ms. Lisa Douglas, Jaycees Chairman of the Board
2001.
2) This item deleted.
3)
Proclamation recognizing the Collier County Automated External
Defibrillator Program. To be accepted by Chief Diane Flagg.
4)
Proclamation recognizing Lisa Taylor, Beth Walsh and John "JD" D'Amico
for their special effort to respond to Collier Harvest's request for
assistance. To be accepted by Lisa Taylor, Beth Walsh and John "JD"
D'Amico.
B. SERVICE AWARDS
Five Year Attendees:
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7_)
Nancy Siemion, Planning Services
Marian Barnett, County Attorney
Michael Vignari, Building Review
Christopher Mobley, Purchasing
Howard Brogdon, Public Utilities Water Lab Department
Geraldine Murnane, Utility Billing
Anthony Asaro, Solid Waste Collections/Code Enforcement Department
Ten Year Attendees:
1)
2)
Jeff Hammell, Facilities Management
Ty Stuller, Water Distribution
2
January 23, 2001
Edward Musser IV, Wastewater Collections
4) Shelly Williams, Wastewater
Fifteen Year Attendees:
1) James Hatcher, Natural Resources
2) Frank Terilla, Wastewater Laboratory
PRESENTATIONS
1) Recommendation to recognize Alexandra Sulecki, Environmental
Specialist II, Code Enforcement Department, as Employee of the Month
for January 2001.
2) Presentation of the Phoenix Award to recognize EMS Department
Paramedics and EMS Paramedic/Firefighters.
APPROVAL OF CLERK'S REPORT
A. ANALYSIS OF CHANGES TO RESERVES FOR CONTINGENCIES.
PUBLIC PETITIONS
A. Request by Larry and Linda Love for Public Petition regarding tree and plant
removal from developed property.
B. Request by Property owners of Naples Park for Public Petition regarding
development in Naples Park.
COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
A. COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT & ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES
1) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approve by
Resolution the Activity Center #9 Interchange Master Plan to provide
landscape, architectural design and transportation access criteria for the
development of a zoning overlay and amendments to the Land
Development Code.
B. TRANSPORTATION SERVICES
'1) Approve funding of four new positions within the Transportation Services
Division and approve Budget Amendments to transfer funds for the new
positions.
3
Janua~ 23, 2001
10.
11.
Cw
PUBLIC UTILITIES
PUBLIC SERVICES
1)
Award a Contract for RFP #00-3176, Production of Beach Compatible
Sand to E. R. Jahna Industries Inc.
SUPPORTSERVICES
EMERGENCY SERVICES
G. COUNTY MANAGER
1)
Resolution ordering and calling for the Election of Members to the Board
of Supervisors of the Collier County Pelican Bay Services District by
qualified electors, to be held by Special Election on May 8, 2001, as set
forth in Section Six of Collier County Ordinance No. 2000-82. (Back-up
materials to be provided separately.)
H. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
Request for direction from the Board of County Commissioners concerning a
complaint filed with the Board of Collier County Commissioners alleging that the
Madeira PUD Ordinance No. 2000-80 is inconsistent with the Collier County's
Growth Management Plan. (Elizabeth Nelson, Plaintiff vs. Collier County,
Florida, Defendant)
Request for direction from the Board of County Commissioners concerning a
complaint filed with the Board of Collier County Commissioners alleging that the
Madeira PUD Ordinance No. 2000-80 is inconsistent with the Collier County's
Growth Management Plan. (Henry Murphy, Plaintiff vs. Collier County, Florida,
Defendant)
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Appointment of members to the Collier County Code Enforcement Board.
Discussion and possible staff direction regarding the beautification overlay at the
proposed 1-75 Interchange on Golden Gate Parkway. (Commissioner Henning)
OTHER ITEMS
4
January 23, 2001
A. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
1)
THIS ITEM HAS BEEN CONTINUED TO THE FEBRUARY 13, 2001
MEETING. Recommendation that the Community Redevelopment
Agency Board review the proposal received for the Gateway "Mini
Triangle" Redevelopment Project; direct staff to begin negotiating a
Development Agreement; and accept the Naples Gateway Apex Triangle
Property Owners' Association request to return in 180 days (6 months)
with an alternative development plan for the "Mini Triangle" for the Board
to consider
C. PUBLIC COMMENT ON GENERAL TOPICS
PUBLIC HEARINGS WILL BE HEARD IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING STAFF ITEMS
12.
ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS - BCC
A. COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENTS
B. ZONING AMENDMENTS
1)
THIS PETITION HAS BEEN CONTINUED TO THE FEBRUARY 27T 2001
MEETING. This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex
parte disclosure be provided by Commission Members. Petition PUD
86-22 (2), William L. Hoover, AICP, of Hoover Planning and Development
Inc., representing Peter and Mark Longo, requesting a rezone from "PUD"
to "PUD" Planned Unit Development known as the Pine Ridge Center
PUD having the effect of revising the PUD Master Plan to show a reverse
frontage, re-label part of Area "B" between Pine Ridge Road and the
reverse frontage road as Area "C", and revising the PUD document to
correct the project acreage from 8.79 acres to 8.73 acres, change the
address of the landowners, and add additional permitted and accessory
uses similar to the C-3 Zoning District, for property located on the south
side of Pine Ridge Road (C.R. 896) approximately 660 feet west of
Whippoorwill Lane in Section 18, Township 49 South, Range 26 East,
Collier County, Florida. (Petitioner's request)
2)
THIS PETITION HAS BEEN CONTINUED TO THE FEBRUARY 277 200'1
MEETING. This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex
parte disclosure be provided by Commission Members. Petition PUD
88-11 (2), William L. Hoover, AICP of Hoover Planning and Development,
5
January 23, 2001
Inc., representing Anthony F. Jancigar, Trustee, requesting a rezone from
"PUD" to "PUD" Planned Unit Development known as Pine Ridge Center
West PUD having the effect of revising the PUD Master Plan to show a
cross-access road and re-label part of Area "B" between Pine Ridge Road
and the reverse frontage road as Area "C", and revising the PUD
document to show the neighboring landowners' current address, re-label
existing exhibits and add exhibits "D", "E", and "F", add Section 3.4L
pertaining to architectural standards, add parking and loading standards,
and add additional permitted and accessory uses similar to the C-3
Zoning District, for property located on the south side of Pine Ridge Road
(C.R. 896) approximately 660 ft. west of Whippoorwill Lane, in Section 18,
Township 49 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida. (Petitioner's
request)
3)
THIS ITEM WAS CONTINUED FROM THE JANUARY 9, 2001 MEETING
AND IS FURTHER CONTINUED TO THE FEBRUARY 13~ 2001
MEETING. This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex
parte disclosure be provided by Commission Members. Petition
PUD-00-16, Robert Duane of Hole, Montes and Associates, representing
Ralph Aberica, requesting a rezone from "A" Agriculture to "PUD" Planned
Unit Development to be known as Collier Boulevard Mixed Use
Commerce Center PUD allowing for residential, commercial retail and
office land uses for property located on the northwest quadrant of the
intersection of 1-75 and Collier Boulevard (C.R. 951), in Section 34,
Township 49 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida. (Petitioner's
Request)
OTHER
1)
A Scrivener's Error Amendment to the Champion Lakes RV Resort PUD
amending Section 3.4 of the PUD Document entitled "Permitted Uses and
Structures" to delete the wording "or similar type recreational vehicle" and
providing a definition for "Class A Motor Coach" for a property known as
Champion Lakes RV Resort PUD.
13.
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
A. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
1)
THIS ITEM WAS CONTINUED FROM THE JANUARY 97 2001 BCC
MEETING. (This item requires that all participants be sworn in and
ex parte disclosure be provided by Commission members.) CU-
2000-11, Jeff Davidson, P.E., of Davidson Engineering, Inc., representing
Big Island Excavating, requesting conditional use of "1" of the "A-MHO"
Zoning District for earthmining for property located ¼ mile South of
6
January 23, 2001
14.
15.
Immokalee Road and South of the existing Longan Lake excavation in the
Corkscrew Community in Section 25, Township 47 South, Range 27 East,
consisting of 102 acres.
2)
THIS ITEM TO BE CONTINUED TO THE FEBRUARY 13~ 2001
MEETING. (This item requires that all participants be sworn in and
ex parte disclosure be provided by Commission members.) Petition
V-2000-26, Joseph Sabatino requesting a variance of 7.5 feet from the
required side yard of 7.5 feet to 0 feet along the east side yard of Lots 4,
5, 6 and 7; a variance of 7.5 feet from the required 7.5 feet to 0 feet for
accessory structures along the side lot lines and within the courtyard
walls; and a variance of 10 feet from the required rear yard of 10 feet to 0
feet for accessory structures along the rear lot lines and within the
courtyard walls for property located on 95th Avenue North, further
described as Lots 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, Naples Park Unit 3, in Section 28,
Township 48 South, Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida.
3)
(This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided by Commission members.) Petition A 2000-
02, Anthony P. Pires, Jr., requesting an appeal of the Collier County
Planning Commission's approval of a boat dock extension BD-2000-23,
approved on October 19, 2000 for property located at 9207 Vanderbilt
Drive, further described as Lots 5 and 6, Conners Vanderbilt Beach
Estates Unit 2, in Section 32, Township 48 South, Range 25 East, Collier
County, Florida.
4)
(This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided by Commission members.) Petition A 2000-
03, Anthony P. Pires, Jr., requesting an appeal of the Collier County
Planning Commission's approval of boat dock extension BD-2000-20,
approved on November 2, 2000 for property located at 372 Oak Avenue,
further described as Lot 9, Block 1, Conner's Vanderbilt Beach Estates
Unit 2, in Section 32, Township 48 South, Range 25 East, Collier County,
Florida.
B. OTHER
STAFF'S COMMUNICATIONS
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COMMUNICATIONS
16.
CONSENT AGENDA - All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the Board, that item(s) will be
7
January 23, 2001
removed from the Consent Agenda and considered separately.
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT & ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES
1)
Recommendation to approve Commercial Excavation Permit No. 59.772,
"Mike Crouch Commercial Excavation" located in Section 30, Township 48
South, Range 28 East; bounded on the North by Oil Well Road Right-of-
Way, on the South Bay 31st Avenue N.E. Right-of-Way, on the West by
occupied lot, and on the East by occupied lot.
2)
Approval of a Budget Amendment to recognize unanticipated Cable
Franchise Fee Revenue and Fund Specific Franchise Administration
Projects.
3)
Authorize the County Attorney to amend quorum requirements for the
Development Services Advisory Committee.
4)
Request to approve for recording the final plat of "Valencia Lakes, Phase
One", and approval of the standard form Construction and Maintenance
Agreement and approval of the amount of the Performance Security.
s)
Final acceptance of Sewer Utility Franchise for Lely Resort Reclaimed
Infrastructure Mains, Phases 1,2, and 3.
6) Final acceptance of Water Utility Facilities for Villas of Capri.
7)
A Resolution amending the Scrivener's Error in Resolution 2000-455, the
Schedule of Development Review and Building Permit Fees.
TRANSPORTATION SERVICES
1)
Approve Work Order #WMI-FT-01-03 with Wilson Miller Inc., for
Professional Surveying Services for the Pathways 2001 Project, Project
No. 69081.
2)
Approve the Stipulated Final Judgment relative to the easement
acquisition of Parcel 136B in the Lawsuit Entitled Collier County v.
Kenneth E. Derma, eta!., (Golden Gate Boulevard Project).
3)
Approve the Stipulated Final Judgment relative to the easement
acquisition of Parcel 136C in the Lawsuit Entitled Collier County v.
8
January23,2001
Kenneth E. Derma, et aL, (Golden Gate Boulevard Project).
4)
Approve Change Order No. 4 to the Construction Contract #00-3039,
Golden Gate Boulevard widening from CR 951 to Wilson Boulevard;
Collier County Project No. 63041; Bid No. 00-3039, CIE No. 62.
s)
Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approve De
Angelo Brothers, Inc., for Clam Bay Cattail removal, one of the approved
firms from RFP #00-3125 Annual Contract for the Countywide Exotic
Vegetation Removal and Reject Bid #00-3050 for Clam Bay Cattail
removal to Aquatic Plants of Florida, Inc., and approve the necessary
Budget Amendments.
6)
Approve a Developer Contribution Agreement with WCI Communities, Inc.
("Developer") for the contribution of land to Collier County for the
Livingston Road Right-of-Way; accept payment as satisfaction of the
developer's obligation to fund the cost for the expansion of the Goodlette-
Frank Road overpass structure and approve the execution of easements.
PUBLIC UTILITIES
l)
Approve an agreement for Water and Wastewater Service for the
Mediterra Planned Unit Development.
2)
Approval of a Contract with the South Florida Water Management District
to continue participating in Surface Water Quality monitoring of Big
Cypress Basin, Collier County.
3)
Reject Bid #00-3042, Purchase One Portable 500 Gallon Self Contained
Vacuum Unit.
4)
Approve Selection of Firm for Construction Management-At-Risk Services
to expand the South County Water Reclamation Facility, RFP 00-3171,
Project 73949.
PUBLIC SERVICES
1)
Obtain Board of County Commissioner acceptance of Community and
Library Technology Access Partnership Grant.
2)
Approve Budget Amendment recognizing $2000 Revenue from a donation
for a memorial bench.
3)
Waive the Formal Work Order Dollar Limit and Increase Work Order for
Surety Construction Company (W.O.#SC-00-07) for Phase II (A) of
9
January23,2001
E=
Sugden Regional Park.
4)
Approve Change Order #1 with Jensen Underground Utilities Inc., for the
Utility work at Sugden Regional Park.
5)
Obtain Board of County Commissioner approval for furniture purchases
for new Headquarters Library.
SUPPORT SERVICES
1)
Approve the attached three (3) Resolutions authorizing the Board of
County Commissioners' Chairman to execute the appropriate
documentation required to expedite the County's Land Rights Acquisition
Program for the Calendar Year 2001 Chairman's Tenure Only.
2)
Recommendation to waive formal competition and approve contract with
DMG Maximus to perform Personnel Classification Study.
3)
Approve Marketing License Agreement with General Growth
Management, Inc., (Coastland Center) to conduct Collier County
Government Days Event.
4)
Approval of a Resolution authorizing the Execution of Purchase
Agreements and Statutory Deeds for the G.A.C. Land Sales Trust
Conveyed to Collier County by Avatar Properties Inc. (Agreement Dated
November 15, 1983), by the Chairman of the Board for the 2001 Calendar
Year.
s)
Approval of a Resolution authorizing the Chairman of the Board of County
Commissioners, Collier County, Florida, to execute deeds and
agreements for deed to Right of Interment for the Purchase of Burial Lots
at Lake Trafford Memorial Gardens Cemetery, for the 2001 Calendar
Year.
6)
Approve a Resolution authorizing the Chairman of the Board of County
Commissioners to execute Limited Use License Agreements for the 2001
Calendar Year.
EMERGENCY SERVICES
1) Board approval of State of Florida EMS Matching Grant Applications.
2)
Board approval of a National Association of Counties 2001 Achievement
Award Application.
1o
January 23, 20Ol
G. COUNTY MANAGER
1)
Request Board approval of partial reimbursement to the Bayshore MSTU
for administrative fees for the Bayshore MSTU Beautification Project.
H. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
I. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
J. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
1) Miscellaneous items to file for record with action as directed.
K. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1)
To approve a Resolution establishing an Ad Hoc Committee to be known
as the Collier County Elections Resource Committee.
L. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1)
Recommendation that the Board approve an Agreement for Disclosure
Counsel and Legal Services on an "As Needed" Basis with the Law Firm
of Bryant, Miller and Olive, P.A.
17.
SUMMARY AGENDA- THIS SECTION IS FOR ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
AND MUST MEET THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA: 1) A RECOMMENDATION FOR
APPROVAL FROM STAFF; 2) UNANIMOUS RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL
BY THE COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION OR OTHER AUTHORIZING
AGENCIES OF ALL MEMBERS PRESENT AND VOTING; 3) NO WRITTEN OR
ORAL OBJECTIONS TO THE ITEM RECEIVED BY STAFF, THE COLLIER COUNTY
PLANNING COMMISSION, OTHER AUTHORIZING AGENCIES OR THE BOARD,
PRIOR TO THE COMMENCEMENT OF THE BCC MEETING ON WHICH THE ITEMS
ARE SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD; AND 4) NO INDIVIDUALS ARE REGISTERED
TO SPEAK IN OPPOSITION TO THE ITEM.
Petition PE-2000-04, Robert Lockhart, P.E., of Lockhart Engineering, Inc.,
representing ERA Realty Group, requesting parking exemption approval for
Faust Parkway Center for Off-Site Parking located on 26th Place SW, Lot 29,
Block 248, Golden Gate Unit 7, in Section 28, Township 49 South, Range 26
East, Collier County, Florida.
18. ADJOURN
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD'S AGENDA SHOULD BE MADE TO
THE COUNTY MANAGER'S OFFICE AT 774-8383.
11
January 23, 2001
January 23, 2001
Item #3A, B, & C
CONSENT AGENDA, SUMMARY AGENDA, AND REGULAR AGENDA
- APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED WITH CHANGES
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think we're alive and well.
Good morning and welcome to the January 23rd meeting of
the board of county commissioners.
If you would all join me in the invocation led by the Reverend
Donna Bartieson of the Golden Gate United Methodist Church
followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.
REV. BARTlESON: Will you pray with me please?
Lord, we come this morning to ask your presence among us
and we do ask that you make us mindful of the many blessings
that we have received from you. And, yet, Lord, we are aware
that there's times when we're not aware of those blessings and
we ask your forgiveness for that.
As you're here among us this morning, we ask that the
decisions made here will be fair and equitable to all people. We
ask that you guide and direct us and that, as we go from here,
we may be kind and loving to all whom we meet. And we pray
these things in Jesus' name. Amen. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Amen.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. We will have some agenda
changes this morning. Mr. Olliff.
MR. OLLIFF: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Good morning.
MR. OLLIFF: We've actually got a couple favorable agenda
changes to read through here this morning.
The first one is moving Item 12(C}(1}, which is currently on
your regular agenda, and as we double check all the criteria,
there's no reason this item couldn't have been on your summary
agenda.
So, we're moving 12(C)(1) to Item 17(B} and that was the
scrivener's error for Champion Lakes RV Resort and PUD.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
MR. OLLIFF: The next two are simply moves on the consent
agenda from one portion of the consent agenda to another. Item
Page 2
January 23, 2001
16(B), as in boy, (2) will move to 16(L)(2) and 16(B), as in boy, (3)
would move to 16(L)(3) and both of those items are simply
stipulated final judgments that should have been shown under
the County Attorney's portion of the consent agenda as opposed
to under transportation.
Just as a heads up for the board, under Communications, I am
probably going to want to talk about the agendas for our two
joint meetings that are coming up. One is the proposed
Bonita/Lee County/Collier County meeting that we still don't have
a date set yet, but I would like to get some discussion about
what agenda items the board members might want to have for
that meeting.
And, as well, we have a joint meeting coming up, which has
had a date set of February 1st between the City of Naples and
the county, and I've got a couple of items as proposed agenda
items but I'd like to get the board's input on that as well.
The last thing I need to do is I need to, for the record, read
one minor change into Item 16(B)(6) on your consent agenda.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Excuse me.
MR. OLLIFF.' You and me, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: If any of you have cell phones, please
turn those off. They're disruptive to the meeting so, please,
please, turn them off. Thank you. Go ahead.
MR. OLLIFF: Thank you.
Item 16(B)(6) dealt with a developer contribution agreement.
The actual agreement failed to include 15 percent of a total
construction cost for an overpass on Goodlette Road that was
necessary for design and permitting.
The total amount of the -- the construction agreement and the
contribution agreement would be increased by $440,404.92. It
changes the -- the total amount for the overpass and also it
changes then the total due in cash or a lease in terms of impact
fee credits from WCI to a total of 1,039 -- $1,039,750.22.
That's an amendment that's been agreed to by both your
transportation staff and the developer as part of that agreement,
and rather than pulling the entire agreement, I just needed to
read that into the record.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you.
MR. OLLIFF.' Mr. Chairman, that's all the changes I have.
Page 3
January 23, 2001
and 16(E)(1) was the other? CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes.
MR. OLLIFF: That would become 8(E)(1).
CHAIRMAN CARTER: 8(B) or 8(E)?
MR. OLLIFF: E as in Edward.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: E as in Edward. Right.
Anything else, Commissioner Coletta?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Weigel.
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Just one, and I'm actually asking to move one of the county
manager agenda items for the benefit of the commission in our
office and it's 8(G)(1), a proposed resolution for the election for
Board of Supervisors of the Pelican Bay Services District.
The resolution, as it appears in the title, discusses a May 8th
date. We're working with the Supervisor of Elections, who is at a
mandatory conference in Orlando, concerning an ability to move
that date earlier in the season, if possible, and we may have a
changed date for you a little later this morning.
I would ask that this be moved to the last regular action item
of the agenda today.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you. It makes a lot of
sense to me because it's still a moving target. Any other changes, Mr. Weigel?
I guess he doesn't have any other. All right.
Mr. Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. I would like to have two
items pulled from the consent agenda for discussion. One is
16(A)(1) and the other one is 16(E)(1).
MR. OLLIFF: 16(A)(1), Mr. Chairman, would become 8(A)(2)
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. There is one other thing. I'd
like to put another item on the agenda to be discussed.
I'd like to request the board of county commissioners to direct
directions to create a public awareness program regarding brush
removal in the estates and to provide an exemption during the
dry season for any excess or cultural material collected, bundled
and left at curb side that would exceed the allowable collection
amounts.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. That would become eight -- or I'm
sorry. Under board of county commissioners, that would be
10(C)? Am I correct--
Page 4
January 23, 2001
MR. OLLIFF: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- Mr. Olliff? Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you, commissioner.
Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Nothing.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I have nothing. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Nothing.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have nothing.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I move approval of the agenda
consent and summary agenda as amended.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Do I have a second to that?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Do we have any public speakers on the
consent or summary agenda?
Seeing -- seeing none, all in favor, signify by saying aye.
Opposed by the same sign. Motion carries.
Would you do minutes to the --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I don't think we have any.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: It says approval of the minutes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is there any?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: There aren't any. Okay.
Page 5
AGENDA CHANGES
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' MEETING
January 23, 2001
MOVE: 12-C-1 to 17B: A Scrivener's Error Amendment to the Champion
Lakes RV Resort PUD amending Section 3.4 of the PUD document entitled
"Permitted Uses and Structures" to delete the wording "or similar type
recreational vehicle" and providing a definition for "Class A Motor Coach"
for a property known as Champion Lakes RV Resort PUD. (Staff request.)
MOVE: 16-B-2 TO 16-L-2: Approve the Stipulated Final Judgment relative
to the easement acquisition of Parcel 136B in the Lawsuit Entitled Collier
County v. Kenneth E. Derma, et al., (Golden Gate Boulevard Project). (Staff
request. Placed under Transportation in error.)
MOVE: 16-B-3 TO '16-L-3: Approve the Stipulated Final Judgment relative
to the easement acquisition of Parcel 136C in the Lawsuit Entitled Collier
County v. Kenneth E. Derma. et al., (Golden Gate Boulevard Project). (Staff
request. Placed under Transportation in error.)
January 23, 2001
Item #5A1
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING JANUARY 21-27, 2001 AS
NATIONAL JAYCEE RECOGNITION WEEK IN COLLIER COUNTY-
ADOPTED
All right. We move to proclamations and service awards.
Proclamation number one is National Jaycee Recognition
Week.
Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Do we have any Jaycee's in the room?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think we've got a whole bunch of
Jaycees in the room this morning.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Come on down.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Great. Great to have you here
this morning and I consider it an honor reading this proclamation
for the Naples Jaycees.
WHEREAS, the Junior Chamber of Commerce in Naples across
Collier County have dedicated their lives towards serving
humanity; and,
WHEREAS, the Jaycees have provided charitable
contributions for the overall improvement to the citizens and
welfare of Collier County; and,
WHEREAS, the Jaycees have financially assisted and provided
needy families with holiday food baskets, holiday presents,
clothing and other necessary supplies; and,
WHEREAS, the Jaycees are a young persons leadership
development organization and have provided many fine examples
of leadership for others to follow; and,
WHEREAS, the Jaycees over the past 40 plus years in Naples
have provided fireworks, haunted houses and festivals for all
ages to enjoy; and,
WHEREAS, the Jaycees have truly made a difference through
unselfish community service in Collier County; and,
WHEREAS, the Jaycees have extended helping hands across
the world in various disaster relief projects.
NOW THEREFORE, be it proclaimed by the board of
commissioners -- county commissioners of Collier County,
Florida, that January 21st through 27th, 2001 be designed as
Page 6
January 23, 2001
National Jaycees Recognition Week.
DONE AND ORDERED THIS 23rd day of January 2001.
Signed -- this proclamation is signed by the chairman, James
D. Carter.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I move approval of the
proclamation.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Second.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
Opposed by the same sign. Motion carries.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Congratulations. There you go,
Jaycees.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thanks for your work, guys.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Lisa, great job as always.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you. Great work.
You do a lot of good work. We appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And your spokesperson is up there to
give us some good word about the Jaycees.
MS. ROBINSON: Good morning and thank you.
For the record, I'm Angela Robinson, the current president for
the Naples Jaycees.
I'd like to take a few minutes and familiarize you with our
chapter's activities. But, first, please allow me to introduce my
2001 board: Becky Pastor, secretary; Toni Finger, community;
Chris Finger, ID; Tim Simstad, new member -- thank you -- Etta
Marvin, management development, vice-president; Shirley
Madriz, treasurer; and Lisa Douglas, chairman of the board and
past president.
There are many Jaycee chapters throughout the State of
Florida but I'm proud to tell you that the number one chapter lies
right here in your home town.
Our theme for the year 2000 was making a whale of an impact
in our community. But it was not just a theme. It was a goal we
reached as well.
The Naples Jaycees was recognized this past weekend, as
you can't tell with my voice, for many great accomplishments.
Not only is our chapter number one but our past president
Lisa Douglas is number one, our Giezenbier Book is number one,
Parade of Success, we were number one, Family Competition, we
were number one, Write-Up Competition, we were number one,
Page 7
January 23, 2001
Regional Director, we were number one, District Director, we
were number one, and, currently, we are the number two chapter
in the nation.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Wow.
(Applause.)
MS. ROBINSON: However, in June we will find out if we've
reached our goal of being number one in the nation.
Out of 365 days, we ran 257 projects in our community
including international involvement projects.
This year our theme is setting tracks in our community. And
with the help of our 200 members and your continued support we
plan to make even larger impacts.
If I've mentioned anything that interests you or spoke the
words you do not understand, I encourage you to joint us at our
next chapter meeting which are held the third Wednesday of
each month.
Meetings begin at 7:30 out of our Jaycee clubhouse on Golden
Gate Parkway.
As the Jaycee creed states, Service to humanity is the best
work of life.
On behalf of our 210 members, thank you for recognizing our
great organization. (Applause.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: What a phenomenal group. I am always
proud to say that I was a Jaycee in the era which I belonged to,
that as 35 they gave me the boot. You were called an exhausted
rooster. And I don't know whether it's exhausted hens and
roosters now, but -- I don't know how they handle it today, but I
would tell you for young people 21 to 35, you could not be a part
of a more viable organization in your community as demonstrated
by this group and how proud I am to sit here and say what an
excellent and great job you have done for this community, and
we're so proud of you and, again, Naples comes out right up here,
number one. And this is just another example of why we're such
a great and viable community.
So, if anybody gets up and says, gee, I'm feeling grumpy this
morning, I really don't know about Naples, I don't know about all
this, you ought to be listening to this, you ought to see what's
transpiring here and what's coming in a few minutes. You ought
to be just proud as you can be to be a part of Collier County in
Page 8
January 23, 2001
Naples, Florida because there isn't a better place to be.
We've got a few warts and problems, yeah, but look at what
we're doing about it.
And, so, what you're doing as an organization, we are proud to
sit here and represent the citizens of this community.
So, thank you for just an outstanding job.
(Applause.)
Item #5A2 - Deleted
Item #5A3
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING THE COLLIER COUNTY
AUTOMATED EXTERNAL DEFIBRILLATOR PROGRAM - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. The next proclamation is by
Donna Fiala. It's recognizing the Collier County Automated
External Defibrillator Program.
God, I got that all right this morning.
Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I hope I can read it as well.
Would Chief Diane Flagg and Ed Ladic, the Executive Director
from Friendship House in Immokalee and Captain Naomi Figuala,
please come forward. Thank you.
Did I pronounce them correctly?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think you're batting a hundred percent,
commissioner.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, let's see how we do on this one.
WHEREAS, the American Heart Association has determined
that nationally the number of sudden deaths due to cardiac
emergencies continue to increase; and,
WHEREAS, the American Heart Association has stated that
the key to preventing this increasing number of deaths is to
expand the availability of rapid defibrillation through the use of
an automatic external defibrillator; that's an AED; and,
WHEREAS, the board of Collier County commissioners of
Collier County, Florida adopted Ordinance Number 99-43 to
establish a community automatic external defibrillator program
that enables members of the general public to provide rapid
Page 9
January 23, 2001
defibrillation to people suffering sudden cardiac death; and,
WHEREAS, the Collier County Emergency Medical Services
Department has certified the hundredth site, the hundredth site,
deployed over 180 AED units and trained more than 2400
community members in the use of AEDs;
NOW THEREFORE, be it proclaimed by the Board of Collier
County Commissioners of Collier County, Florida that the
Immokalee Friendship House is the one hundredth automatic
external defibrillator site in Collier County.
DONE this day of the 23rd day of January.
Thank you so much.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Move the proclamation.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Second.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Donna, are you going to give them
the proclamation?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, thank you.
Nice to see you again.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you for coming in.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Congratulations.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And this is for you.
CHIEF FLAGG: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, commissioners.
Chief Diane Flagg for the record.
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the board, the county
manager and our community members who embraced this
program and worked with us to become the first emergency
services system in the nation to establish a public access
defibrillation program.
I'd also like to thank Miss Charlie Oliver of Medtronic
Physiocontrol who immediately stepped forward to donate this
AED for the Immokalee Friendship House.
And with that, Captain Naomi Figuala, the EMS department's
AED coordinator will establish Collier County's one hundredth
AED site by presenting Mr. Ed Ladic, Executive Director of the
Immokalee Friendship House with the Medtronic Physiocontrol
AED.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Could I see it?
CHIEF FLAGG: Thank you.
(Applause.)
Page 10
January 23, 2001
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Go to the microphone.
Just in case somebody doesn't know, Ed, what the Immokalee
Friendship House is, this looks like a fund raising opportunity to
me. You might want to make a plug.
MR. LADIC: Well, probably -- for the record, my name is Ed
Ladic and I'm probably going to need this before I leave the
room.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We feel like that way at every
commission meeting one of us might need it.
MR. LADIC: I want to thank Medtronic Physiocontrol for this
wonderful donation, Collier County Emergency Medical Services,
Chief Diane Flagg, Captain Naomi, Larry Mullens, our president of
the board of directors who helped engineer this, and I want to
recognize Collier County EMS, not only for providing the
Emergency Medical Services, but to let you all know that them
along with 218 volunteers helped serve 1431 people Christmas
Eve dinner.
We are fortunate enough to have Santa Clause arrive in a
helicopter. And Chief Diane Flagg and the folks over there really
did a wonderful job.
I want to thank the county commission and everybody here
and I think we're entering into a new era of public safety by
having this. Just to remind you, there's only a handful of
agencies in Immokalee that are open 24 hours a day. One of
them is the casino, the police department, the fire department
and the Immokalee Friendship House. So, thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Excellent.
(Applause.)
Item #5A4
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING LISA TAYLOR, BETH WALSH AND
JOHN "J.D." D'AMICO FOR THEIR SPECIAL EFFORT TO RESPOND
TO COLLIER HARVEST'S REQUEST FOR ASSISTANCE - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Commissioner Coletta, you
have a proclamation recognizing Lisa Taylor, Beth Walsh and
John J.D. D'Amico for their special effort to respond to the Collier
Harvest request for assistance.
Page 11
January 23, 2001
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's correct, Commissioner
Carter, and I -- it's indeed an honor to be able to read this
proclamation and my involvement with Collier Harvest and the
food banks.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Where is the other or is somebody
missing? There he comes. I just didn't want to let him, you
know, avoid the spotlight.
MR. OLLIFF: J.D.'s not missing. He's just a little slow.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' It's quite an honor. And my
involvement with Collier Harvest has been many years and the
food banks of Collier County, and it's great to see that our own
employees here of Collier County have taken such an interest in
this. So,
WHEREAS, Collier Harvest, a nonprofit organization,
requested assistance to restock is the county's food bank; and,
WHEREAS, the county employees were asked to participate in
the food drive by bringing two canned goods each day, and for
their efforts employees were permitted to wear jeans to work;
and,
WHEREAS, these donations were used to replenish the food
bank after the holiday season; and,
WHEREAS, county employees generously responded for the
call for assistance and donated a total of 1,550 pounds of food
for this event; and,
WHEREAS, special recognition is give to Lisa Taylor, Beth
Walsh and John D'Amico for their selfless efforts to make food
drive -- food drive a success; and,
WHEREAS, this has been another special endeavor by county
employees to serve the community.
NOW THEREFORE, be it proclaimed by the Board of Collier
County Commissioners, Florida, that Lisa Taylor, Beth Walsh and
John D'Amico be recognized for their special efforts to respond
to the Collier Harvest request for assistance.
DONE AND ORDERED THIS 23rd day of January 2001.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I move acceptance of the
proclamation.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We have a motion and we have a pair of
seconds. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
Page 12
January 23, 2001
Opposed by the same sign and congratulations to you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Congratulations.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you so much.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Congratulations.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You guys are great.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Good job. Thank you.
Item #5B
EMPLOYEE SERVICE AWARDS - PRESENTED
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. We are now going to have
service awards, and as our new procedure, Commissioner
Mac'Kie is going to do those this morning. We're going to step
down and greet the recipients and then we will continue on with
a couple other very, very special award programs that are
included in this agenda.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm pleased to get to honor the
attend -- the employees of Collier County who are here to
celebrate some anniversaries today and we'll start with the
five-year attendees.
I'll ask Nancy Siemion from Planning Services, Marian Barnett
from the County Attorney's office, Michael Vignari from Building
Review, Christopher Mobley from Purchasing, Howard Brogdon
from Public Utilities Water Lab Department, and Geraldine
Murnane with Utility Building.
If you'll all come forward so we can thank you for your
service.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And next employees celebrating
their ten year anniversary with Collier County. We'll call up Jeff
Hammell from Facilities Management, Ty Stuller from Water
Distribution and Shelly Williams from Wastewater. (Applause.)
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And, finally, our 15-year
anniversary celebrants. We have Mack Hatcher from Natural
Resources and Frank Terilla from the Wastewater Lab.
(Applause.)
Page 13
January 23, 2001
Item #5Cl
ALEXANDRA SULECKI, ENVIRONMENTAL SPECIALIST II, CODE
ENFORCEMENT DEPARTMENT - RECOGNIZED AS EMPLOYEE OF
THE MONTH FOR JANUARY, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. At this time, it's my pleasure to
invite forward our employee of the month, and that is a great
lady who has really done an awful lot of wonderful things for
Collier County, probably has one of the toughest jobs that I know.
If you're in Code Enforcement, and you go and knock at
somebody's door, it's not like you get a lot of warm fuzzy
feelings, because the people on the other side are -- right away
are on the defense.
But Alex Sulecki has done an exceptional job in this
department. She's not only being recognized by her peers this
morning, but to be recognized by all of us for what she's
contributed.
She started as a part-time employee. She took the initiative.
She took an opportunity and she said, give me a chance. She's
proven how good she can be. She's now, of course, a full-time
employee and has done so many positive things for the
department and it's a real pleasure because I know how hard she
works in a job that is really a thankless job, but without people
like this, our county wouldn't be where it is today.
So, Alex, thank you for being here. And an opportunity to
congratulate you and recognize you as the employee of the
month for January 2000 -- January 1, 2000, and we have a small
check here that I think -- like $50 that you'll probably find some
good use for.
So, Alex it is my pleasure to present this to you.
(Applause.}
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Congratulations.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
MS. SULECKI: I just want to take this opportunity to say
thank you to everybody who's here supporting me and thank you,
commissioners, for your kind words. Thank you, Commissioner
Carter.
I'd also like to thank my fellow employees and my supervisors
Page 14
January 23, 2001
who helped me and make it so agreeable to come to work every
day; my director, Michelle Arnold, who nominated me, and the
employees in the committee who made that happen, I really
appreciate it. Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
Item #5C2
PHOENIX AWARDS RECOGNIZING EMS DEPARTMENT
PARAMEDICS AND EMS PARAMEDIC/FIREFIGHTERS -
PRESENTED
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Now, we have a special opportunity to
recognize all those people you see in blue in the back of the
room. Our EMS department just continues to go on and on and
on and do such -- so many outstanding things.
And, so, this morning I'm going to have an opportunity to read
to you what's called the Phoenix Award. I want to go through
this and then we're going to recognize not only the people that
have been involved in -- in this part of it but also people who have
been served along with some of our fire fighters.
The Collier County Emergency Medical Services Department
has adopted the Phoenix Award to recognize EMS department
paramedics and EMS paramedic/firefighters who through their
skills and knowledge have successfully brought back to life an
individual who had died.
The Phoenix was a mythological bird who died and rose and
renewed from its own ashes. And on May 8th, 2000, Mr. Jeffrey
Freitas suffered sudden death while driving his car an
Airport-Pulling Road.
Bystanders, including Mary Hillridge, an RN, pulled Mr. Freitas
from his vehicle, determined that he was neither breathing nor
had a pulse and began CPR.
Collier County Medical Services Department, Lieutenant
Paramedic/Firefighter, Eva Weeks, Paramedic Sherry Solmers
and North Naples Firefighter Paramedic Wayne Ewald, as a part
of the single vehicle response program, were dispatched to the
scene.
Also responding due to dispatch as a motor vehicle accident
was ASL Engine 408 staffed by EMS Lieutenant
Page 15
January 23, 2001
Paramedic/firefighter Sam Pool, in North Naples, Firefighters
Nolan Sap, Theodore Vat and Bill Ward.
Within minutes, following advanced life support procedures
and medications, Mr. Freitas' heartbeat and breathing was
restored.
Mr. Freotas is here today to present the Phoenix Award to the
EMS Department paramedic/firefighters and paramedics. And I
would like the following individuals to come forward, and as they
come forward, Mr. Freotas will hand you out the award and give
you a thanks for saying I am here today, I am alive today
because of what you did.
So, if Mr. Freitas will come forward, and as I do this, we will
begin to present the awards.
First, I would like to recognize the EMS personnel; Lieutenant
Paramedic/Firefighter Eva Weeks, EMS Lieutenant
Paramedic/Firefighter Sam Pool, EMS Paramedic Sherry Solmers
and Lieutenant -- would these people come forward? Now, we
have those people. They were on the scene.
And I think Mr. Freitas will probably have some comments
that he would -- and also Miss Mary Hillridge, RN. I'd like her to
come forward --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: She's here.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Is she here this morning?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Uh-huh, right here.
MS. HILLRIDGE: I popped right up with him.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, that's great. You're ahead of the
script but you're here. That's good. MS. HILLRIDGE: I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And I would like -- at this time I'm sure
Mr. Freitas would like to make some comments.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Excuse me, sir.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Use the microphone.
MR. FREITAS: I just want to thank all the people because I
just found out this morning -- I thought it was six times my heart
quit. And I found out this morning it was seven times.
So, I just wanted to thank everybody because if it wasn't for
them I wouldn't be here today. I thank them all. Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: When you get that second chance at life
and I am speaking from the heart on that, as you can, how
Page 16
January 23, 2001
valuable life is and how great we are to be here, standing and
talking to everybody this morning.
In addition, I would like to recognize the Emergency Medical
Service Department colleagues that are here today and we would
like them to come forward.
Each of them has used these skills and expertise to bring a
community member back to life. And, as I call your name, I
would like you to come forward for your Phoenix Award.
And they are as follows: Lieutenant Paramedic/Firefighter
Don Eckerd.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm going to have Commissioner Mac'Kie
hand these out. I'm going to keep reading them and having you
keep coming forward.
Lieutenant Paramedic/Firefighter Timothy McGary. He has
two awards.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Paramedic Daniel Dural, Lieutenant
Paramedic/Firefighter Patricia Shilling, Paramedic/Firefighter
Eddie -- Eddie Gurado, Paramedic John Apes, Lieutenant
Paramedic/Firefighter Michael Sullivan, Lieutenant
Paramedic/Firefighter John Paczinski, Lieutenant Firefighter--
Paramedic/Firefighter James Bellowski, Captain
Paramedic/Firefighter Matt Via, Lieutenant Paramedic/Firefighter
AI Fitz, Paramedic Anthony Delatori, Lieutenant
Paramedic/Firefighter Paul Baumgardner, Lieutenant
Paramedic/Firefighter Paul Pastoretti, Lieutenant
Paramedic/Firefighter Patricia McLaughlin, Paramedic/Firefighter
Ryan Global, Lieutenant Paramedic/Firefighter Valerie Thorson,
Lieutenant Paramedic/Firefighter John Plummer, and Paramedic
Eric Madden.
All of these people have participated in life saving situations
and, you know, it's -- we are just truly blessed to have such
talent here in this community.
So, let's all give them a big round of applause.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The other part of this team are the
firefighters. And as a part of our single vehicle response
partnership with the North Naples Fire District, the following fire
fighters are recognized and they are assigned to the EMS
Page 17
January 23, 2001
paramedic vehicle and assisted in bringing the community
member back to life.
And here today to represent that group is Mary -- Mr. Jerry
Sanford is here to receive their reward. So, if he would step
forward, we would like to have those awards taken to these
people who have done such an excellent job and those are
Firefighter Troy Corey, John Adams, Jr., Reagan Siska and Scott
Leonard.
So, it's -- this is just wonderful of what they do and provide for
the community. So, again, you know, we are just so pleased that
we have people like this.
And in closing I would just like to say we have a couple of
people in the community I would like to recognize on another
situation where a vehicle overturned in a canal. These people,
they didn't think anything about it. They jumped into the water.
They pulled the driver from the vehicle and that person is alive
today because of their quick actions.
So, I'd like to recognize Mr. Richard Louis and Mr. James
Butcher. Would they come forward because of their quick
thinking to save a fellow member of this community?
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: This is just a great -- this is just a great
moment, I think, for this community. And I see these young men
coming up here. That's one of the wonderful things about
youths. They don't wait to, gee, I wonder if I should stop and get
out, they just do it. They're can do guys that said there's a
situation, we're going to go in there and take care of it.
'So, I -- I just can't thank you enough, all of our paramedics,
our firefighters, for what they're doing in this community.
So, again, give them a big round of applause and be proud of
the people that are here. (Applause.}
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It kind of puts things in
perspective about what the rest of us do for a living.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, doesn't it? Yeah.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'd just like to take a moment to
congratulate Chief Flagg again for the outstanding leadership
that she provides EMS.
I would tell you she could go anywhere in this country and do
this job. My fear is that somebody will convince her to leave one
Page 18
January 23, 2001
of these days. Every time --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Don't give people ideas.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Every time I go to a Florida Association
County meeting, I have commissioners saying, you've got the
greatest person, greatest chief, heading your EMS. We would
give anything to have her in our county. And they tell me all the
time, we're going to try and steal her.
And I said, well, you may try and steal her but we're going to
do our best to keep her because we value her so such.
So, Diane, again, a very special recognition to you for your
leadership and for what you're doing for this county and what you
have done to help all of us be a better community.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Here, here.
(Applause.}
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's my favorite day, you guys. This
Phoenix Awards day is just awesome.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I've got to take a breath here and say
WOW.
Item #7A
REQUEST BY LARRY AND LINDA LOVE FOR PUBLIC PETITION
REGARDING TREE AND PLANT REMOVAL FROM DEVELOPED
PROPERTY - NO ACTION
All right. We now move to Item 7, Public Petitions, and we
have 7(A), a request by Larry and Linda Love regarding tree and
plant removal from developed property.
And this is a public petition. You have an opportunity to come
and present to the board your situation. So, that is Larry and
Linda Love, Item 7(A). Are they here in the room?
MR. LOVE: Yeah. We're right here.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
MR. LOVE: Good morning, everyone.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Good morning.
MR. LOVE: Thank you for this opportunity --
THE COURT REPORTER: Sir? Sir, would you identify yourself
for the record?
MR. LOVE: Yes. I'm Larry Love. And this is Linda Love.
And the reason we're here this morning is we're trying to save
Page 19
January 23, 2001
some trees on our property that we believe we should be able to
keep due to the ordinance that is currently on the -- in Collier
County. We feel that it is unfair and it is not a law for everyone
but a law for a select few people.
Would you like me to explain what happened so we can tell
you?
We were cited by Code Enforcement due to kind of a dispute
going on with some neighbors that we had nothing to do with.
Because we were cited, we were told that we had to remove
these particular trees. Other people do not have to remove them
because their house is a couple years older than us.
As a matter of fact, the people that cited us, they have the
same tree on their property and they get to keep theirs. Of
course, their seeds probably blew over to our yard and started
these trees anyway.
We feel that to remove these is selective prosecution and
selective enforcement and it's an undoable law. If you drive
down in many communities and on Airport Drive, you can see
these trees are all over the place. And because no one has cited
against them, they don't have to be removed.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What kind of trees are these we're
talking about?
MR. LOVE: We're talking basically the Acacia trees and there
are some peppers on our lands. But it's the Acacias that we
would like to keep that are buffering our property from the
Regent Park, which is -- borders our -- the back of our yard.
And when Code Enforcement came out and pointed out that
those trees had to be removed -- our neighbor to the north of us
have the same trees and plants on their yard and because no one
has cited them, they can keep theirs and Code Enforcement did
not cite them and so those people still have the trees.
I'm not going to cite them. I'm not going to want to turn my
neighbors in. That's not what we're here for. It's not 1945 where
we need to turn neighbors in and so forth.
I was -- I am here to see if this law can be amended or
changed because it really, as I said earlier, is selective
prosecution and enforcement. It's an undoable law.
I don't believe the county has enough people in Code
Enforcement to knock on everybody's door and march into their
backyards and tell people to cut these trees down.
Page 20
January 23, 2001
So, my -- my wife would like to say a few words as well.
MRS. LOVE: In Naples, the City of Naples, they've changed
the law to read only that -- that unbuilt on land could have these
trees removed, otherwise they didn't have to have them removed
if the homes were there.
They have to come in with big trucks to take down the trees.
I know that -- that Code Enforcement said they can just come in
and do this very little in a slight way, but they can't. We've been
told by many people that they have to come in with trucks, that
they have to come in --
MR. LOVE: In order -- what she's trying to say, in order to take
down what we've been asked to take down, we're going to have
to ruin other plants and other land on our property in order to get
down the ones that we've been asked to.
So, we're destroying living things that should not be taken
down in order to get these -- to these other trees. And there
have been some variances in the past, I guess, with some other
complaints. I guess the pine trees over on Airport Boulevard --
Airport Drive were -- were allowed to stay because the golf
course had some kind of a thing with the county and they were
allowed to keep these Australian Pines.
So, what we're asking here is, first of all, compassion. Again,
we feel that the way the law is, it needs to be changed. It needs
to be rewritten. Our laws in this country and in this state and
this county should be for all people and not for some people. We
should not have to spend two or $3,000 to take down these trees
when my neighbor doesn't have to.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: May I ask you a question, sir?
MR. LOVE: Sure.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Because I understand your plight
and one of the problems with Code Enforcement is that it's a
complaint driven system, but -- I apologize, but by analogy if-- if
what we -- if we accepted your argument, then we couldn't have
speed limit laws because everybody who speeds doesn't get
caught. We couldn't have any laws because everybody doesn't
get caught every time.
MR. LOVE: I understand but, you know, you're not allowed to
go 75 miles an hour and I'm not allowed to go 75. The law says
that, so the law is for everyone. But my neighbor is allowed to
go 75 miles an hour because nobody sees them --
Page 21
January 23, 2001
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No.
MR. LOVE: -- doing it. That's okay?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No. Your neighbor is likewise
supposed to obey the law and take down the tree.
MR. LOVE: Well, I wouldn't have known that those trees had
to come down.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But the law is not a defense, sir.
We can't let it be.
MR. LOVE: But we're talking about an undoable law. If I drive
down the street and I see these Acacias and these peppers in
front of Barron Collier High School, you know, they're not cut
down. Why -- why aren't they cut down? Okay? There's -- there's
probably some peppers and Acacias on county property in
places.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, we've spent a half million dollars
lately to get as many of our exotics removed as we can on
county property.
MR. LOVE: The law should be for everyone --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It is.
MR. LOVE: -- and not -- no, it's not, because the law is against
me. Okay.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well --
MR. LOVE: I have to take down these large trees that are
buffering the sound from Immokalee Road and from 4t. It's
giving me privacy. It's a privacy wall. And there's a line drawn
right here where my property is.
The neighbor who complained to us, and it wasn't even really
to us, because they had a feud going with another neighbor, they
have the same tree right there. My neighbor over here has the
same tree. They don't have to come down.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Love --
MR. LOVE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- is there a financial burden to
you and your wife?
MR. LOVE: Well -- well, there is a financial burden.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: To remove these?
MR. LOVE: This -- we told this to Code Enforcement when we
met with them back in August, and they gave us some time to
have these removed and -- which was very nice of them, but in
our discussions with them in this room, they said that, you know,
Page 22
January 23, 2001
we're here to enforce the laws and the ordinances. If you want
to have something changed, go to the county commissioners.
Now, this was back in August. And there's been a lot of
changes since then and we -- we actually waited until the new
board sat so that we'd have a better chance of speaking with
some people who had some power and we just feel that until
everyone has to comply to this law, that we would like to wait
and to comply ourselves.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, just a second. First of all, I would
like to hear from Code Enforcement and, number two, the code
has never changed. No matter who sits up here in these chairs,
the code is the same.
MR. LOVE: I think it should change.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, it needs to be. I had to remove a
Brazilian Pepper from my yard. I didn't know what it was until I
was notified that that's what it was.
Was it a financial -- yeah. It cost me two or $300 to take it
down. Did that make me jump with joy? No. But the code's the
code. I didn't know what it was.
MR. LOVE: I--I--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm like you.
MR. LOVE: I understand what you're saying and -- and the
whole thing about exotics, that Florida only wants to have native
plants, it's not going to happen. You can't enforce it. These
things are all over the place, and now, these peppers, these
Acacias and these other plants, they are native to Florida.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No, no, no.
MR. LOVE: And there's no fighting it.
MR. OLLIFF: And, Mr. Chairman, I need to inform the board
that this is an ongoing Code Enforcement Board case in which
the Loves have been provided a period of time after a Code
Enforcement hearing in order to be able to remove these plants,
and legally this board has no opportunity to actually step in and
do anything in this particular case because the quasi judicial
nature of that Code Enforcement Board.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: In other words, the Code
Enforcement Board has already -- even if we changed the law,
you know, it wouldn't affect you, sir.
MR. LOVE: Well, I can understand that. I was hoping that
maybe we could get -- if -- if you were agreeable and felt that we
Page 23
January 23, 2001
are selectively being prosecuted and enforced, that maybe we
could try to keep our trees.
That's why I'm here today. If I can change this for other
people, well, then that would be fine, too. And we -- we just feel
that -- that you have an ordinance that is just undoable.
It's not going to --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Unless --
MR. LOVE: -- ever work.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The last comment I'll make is just
if you have a selective prosecution argument, you understand
will be grounds for an appeal to the Court.
MR. LOVE: Yeah. I was told I have no appeal any longer. And
when the Code Enforcement found against us and gave us till
February 15th to cut these down, they did not tell us that you
have 30 days to have an appeal and go to the Circuit Court.
What they did tell us was that we could go to the Collier
County commission and speak with them and in one of the
letters that we were sent, it also said at the bottom, of course, if
you disagree with our findings, not only we'll be agreeable to
discussing it with you, we can also arrange a personal appeal
before the board of commissioners if you ask to do so by letter.
And there seems to be some kind of a conflict there where I'm
told I can talk to you and then I can't talk to you. You can do
something for us and you can't do something for us. CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right.
MR. LOVE: So, you know, I'm stuck in -- in red tape and in
government and I'm not getting anywhere. I'm not getting any
help and I feel that it's --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Tom, get your comment and then I want
to hear from Michelle Arnold.
MR. OLLIFF: The only decision before this board today is
whether or not you feel there's enough support on the board to
schedule this for a regular item at a future agenda to have it
brought forward.
And I guess I'm just -- I'm telling you that there's really no
specific action this board can take unless the board wants to
look at the overall exotics ordinance from a policy viewpoint.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That comes under the LDC process
which would take place in -- MR. OLLIFF.' Yes, sir.
Page 24
January 23, 2001
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And do not consider -- I mean,
please, board, don't consider nuking our exotics removal
ordinance --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: No.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- because the only chance we
have for destroying these invasive plants is to keep the
ordinance the way it is. I wouldn't support it, I'm sorry, because
I know it's frustrating, but there's nothing that we can or should
do.
MR. LOVE: It's not a law for everyone. I'm sorry. I disagree.
I could get a petition up --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You and I will have to agree to
disagree. You may be able to persuade some others but you and
I will have to --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I want to hear from Michelle, please,
and then I will tell you where I am on this.
MS. ARNOLD: For the record, Michelle Arnold, Code
Enforcement Director.
The County Manager is absolutely right. This case went
before the board back in August of 2000, and at that time the
board found them in violation and out gave them six months to
comply.
Thankfully, we have our board meetings on Channel 54. A
contractor that was watching offered to remove the exotics from
the Loves' property free of charge at no charge to the Loves and
actually started that removal shortly after the meeting and was
asked to stop by the Loves until they proceeded with -- MR. LOVE: Right.
MS. ARNOLD: -- I believe this -- this hearing. The contractor
is willing to proceed with the removal and it would be no
financial burden to the Loves.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. And you can replace them
with native plants. It will take awhile to grow up. I understand
that, whether they're black olive trees. Whatever you want to
put in there, that can be done.
MR. LOVE: What Miss Arnold is saying is true. We -- we were
offered by very kind people to do that but, you know, that's not
the only consideration. That's why I'm here. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well--
MR. LOVE: Again, I believe the law is --
Page 25
January 23, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- sir, your time has expired. I've heard
your argument. I appreciate it. I can empathize with it but I'm
with Commissioner Mac'Kie. I am not going to make exceptions.
If I start that, I open Pandora's box, undermine the Code
Enforcement Board. I'm not going to do that as a commissioner,
sir, so I am not going to support this. It's up to -- hear from other
members of the board. There's no financial hardship. Most
people have to pay for this. You're fortunate. You've got
somebody to remove it for free.
MR. LOVE: Well, I'm also here to save trees, living trees, and I
feel that your --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The Brazilian Pepper is destructive to
other types of living trees so we can have that argument forever.
MR. LOVE: I'm really talking about the Acacias, which are not
doing anything to anyone. And just the --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, that's not the opinion of people
who study these things and I have to go with the scientists. And
I thank you, sir, for your presentation.
MS. ARNOLD: I just wanted to add one other thing for the
record, that we in our notice of hearings and all of our notices to
the public, we do provide them with information that's to the
appeal -- an appeal process and that is before the courts and not
this body. The only thing that is to be considered by the board at
this point is whether or not to change the laws, the exotics to be
removed.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I don't think you've heard any
support for that --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I don't -- I will -- I'm not going to support
changing the Land Development Code, and if there is a
commissioner who feels strongly to change that, the LDC cycle
is June and December. And they can do whatever they feel they
need to do to pursue that.
MR. LOVE: With all due respect, sir, how -- how can you
enforce -- you're not enforcing it properly and how can you
continue to enforce something that is just undoable?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And if that's -- if you're right about
that, then a judge will agree with you, otherwise you'll have --
MR. LOVE: I've been told by Miss Arnold I can't go see a judge
Page 26
January 23, 2001
because it's too late.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, Miss Arnold is not a lawyer.
I'd suggest that if you have a legal case, you need to see a
lawyer and we've -- we have done all we can do here. We don't
have any authority to help you with this.
MR. LOVE: Okay. I appreciate your time and I just hope that
in the future that our governments will make laws for everyone
and not just for a select few. And that's what we are dealing
with.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I have a --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- couple questions for Miss
Arnold.
Acacia, I'm -- I mean, I'm familiar with the Brazilian Pepper
but not an Acacia. Can you explain a little bit of that and if the
majority of the board so desires to change the ordinance to the
LDC cycle, does it -- does it help out the Loves? I mean, can we
CHAIRMAN CARTER: No.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- extend --
MS. ARNOLD: No.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's my understanding. I just
wanted a clarification.
MS. ARNOLD: Right. It would affect future developments.
And if you decide to remove it from the exotics list now, then
when we're going through and get complaints for exotics in the
future, we wouldn't pursue the Earleaf Acacia. Nor would we at
the time of development when a single family home or a
development comes in require the removal of those species from
the property before they get Certificate of Occupancy.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But before you consider taking it
off the list, please do some research because these are
nationally studied. I mean, they're -- they're on the list for real
good scientific reasons.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, that was my first question.
MS. ARNOLD: Yet --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm not familiar with --
MS. ARNOLD: I have a -- my staff is here if you --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Henning, I'm not a
scientist. I have to defer to the scientists who come up with
Page 27
January 23, 2001
these decisions and analysis and I just don't feel comfortable
being selective on my limited knowledge and say I want to
remove these exotics because I don't know anything about them.
MS. ARNOLD: There -- there has been some information
prepared by staff, my staff as well as the Natural Resources
staff, with respect to the species on our exotics list and how
they, you know, get put -- placed on the list. And we have
information about the Earleaf Acacia specifically.
If you would like that information, Commissioner Henning, I'd
be glad to provide that to you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And I will say we universally in all our
PUDs, the legal documents that we approve month after month,
all of these have to be removed by the people developing the
property. So, it is universally applied across the board every
opportunity we have to do that. So, we're not being selective,
sir.
MR. LOVE: Well, you are because Golden Gate --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Sir, I'm sorry. I can't take any more
public comment.
MR. LOVE: Well, I would just like --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'd appreciate it --
MR. LOVE: I understand what you're saying and I know that
there's other people here, but you're saying it's universally
applied, and it's not. People that are grandfathered next to me
because their house is older, they can keep that tree. Golden
Gate can keep trees that are -- are prohibited elsewhere. These
seeds blow around all over the county. It's not fair.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, you may have a point there, sir,
and I think, as we review our future land planning processes,
there may be room to expand that. There may be room to do
some of those things.
I have to operate under the law as it is today in my quasi
judicial position.
MR. LOVE: Well--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I can't change it.
MR. LOVE: -- it just needs to be changed. Okay? It's --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Perhaps.
MR. LOVE: -- unfair and I hope that some other people that
are watching this on Channel 54 will send some support because
it's just not for all people. Thank you.
Page 28
January 23, 2001
COMMISSIONER FIALA: The question I wanted to ask is, does
a grandfather law exist?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Could we -- can we instead of
having this whole discussion about LDC, would anybody mind if
we talk about -- I mean, if you want to instruct staff when we
come back through the LDC cycle to talk what the grandfather
period is and whether this particular tree ought to be on or not,
we can't -- we -- CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think that's a good point,
commissioner.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd suggest we not do that at a
public petition.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: If it's the pleasure of the board, we can
give staff direction at the next LDC cycle to look at grandfather
clause, clauses, and how it affects this and perhaps some other
areas might be a fine --
MR. OLLIFF: What we will do rather than that, frankly, as part
of the LDC workshop, we'll try and walk through the exotics
ordinance and -- and include that as part of that workshop as an
educational process for the board.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Good.
MR. OLLIFF: Move on to 7(B).
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Would that be good for you,
Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah. Yeah. Sure, sure.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Right.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Does grandfather law even apply with
trees? That's -- that's the question -- MR. OLLIFF: Yes--
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- I want to know.
MR. OLLIFF: Yes, it does and we'll explain that whole
process.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That was my question.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you.
Item #7B
REQUEST BY PROPERTY OWNERS OF NAPLES PARK FOR PUBLIC
PETITION REGARDING DEVELOPMENT IN NAPLES PARK - STAFF
TO COME BACK WITH WHATEVER IS LEGALLY POSSIBLE TO
Page 29
January 23, 2001
MEET THE GOALS OF NAPLES PARK
Next petition is by Miss Vera Fitz-Gerald, Property Owners of
Naples Park, a request for a public petition regarding
development in Naples Park.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: Good morning. I'm Vera Fitz-Gerald and
I'm here representing the Property Owners of Naples Park.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Vera, may I interrupt you and just
ask? Is our County Attorney in the room somewhere, and if he's
not and can hear me, will he come on because I've got questions,
legal questions, on this.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
interrupting --
So do I. Thank you.
Excuse me, Vera. I apologize for
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I didn't see you weren't here.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- but I'm there -- I think this is a
great idea if we can legally do it, so --
MS. FITZ-GERALD: Ms. Student was here. She's been --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, we have to have her in the room.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: -- floating around. Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No. You can go ahead.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: She has to hear us.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: All right.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: There we go.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: There we are.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Thank you, Vera.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: All right. Naples Park is a unique open,
diverse community which is coming under severe pressure to
develop.
We in Naples Park recognize that change is inevitable and not
necessarily bad. However, we would like to have a hand in
determining how that change takes place and the kind of
neighborhood that Naples Park will develop into.
We in Naples Park are very fortunate in that the community
character study, now in draft stage, uses Naples Park
specifically as an example of how to revitalize a mature
neighborhood.
We look forward to reviewing the suggestions and the
community character study and debating their merits within our
community.
Page 30
January 23, 2001
We have discussed these ideas with Mr. McNees, Mr. Mulhere,
Ms. Student for their input and cooperation in our endeavors.
We are now asking the board of county commissioners to
commence a planning study to last one year, at least one year,
from the presentation of the community character study and to
direct staff to work with the Naples Park community to develop
and implement a comprehensive plan for the revitalization of
Naples Park during that planning study.
To this end, the PONP, the Property Owners of Naples Park,
and the people of Naples Park are willing to invest their own time
and energy and establish a committee of residents and property
owners, some of whom are professionals with specialties
relevant to the planning study, to work closely with the
neighborhood residents and planning staff to achieve this goal.
As part of the planning study, we also ask that the board -- we
also ask the board to impose a moratorium on permitting rezones
or new variances arising from code violations in Naples Park
during this planning period.
We are not asking for a moratorium on building or
development that conforms to current zoning and code
regulations. We are merely asking that no changes be made in
zoning or variances granted which is the law as it now stands.
We anticipate with the development of a new comprehensive
plan changes that could include flexibility in setbacks such as
front yards, making backyards larger, areas are permitted
multifamily homes perhaps with increased density -- I don't know
about that -- and new commercial areas within the park.
The board of county commissioners has taken similar or
identical steps in helping other communities achieve relief from
incessant development pressure during the planning stages of a
new revitalization.
We ask that you help our community in a similar manner.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, Vera. I think Commissioner
Mac'Kie has some legal questions. I want to know where we
stand in the legal framework on this because I very much
endorse what you want to do as far as getting the overlay,
getting the report from Dover Cole, doing all of this. MS. FITZ-GERALD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And -- and I think it's a -- it's a process
Page 31
January 23, 2001
and maybe that's where we totally have to be at the end of the
day but, Mr. Weigel, we have some legal questions. I know
Commissioner Mac'Kie does as I do, so maybe you can help us
with that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You know, perhaps .. perhaps
considering the nature of this, that it's a public petition, the more
appropriate course might be to indicate if there is a majority of
support. I -- we have heard two commissioners supportive of the
idea and instruct staff to come back with whatever is legally
possible to support this goal that we have of not -- not allowing
the redevelopment of Naples Park to happen ahead of the
redevelopment plan.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I second that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So, there's three of us right there
that we could just ask the County Attorney. You may or may not.
You may come back and say I can't do everything they ask for
but here's what I can do, just to give you those instructions.
Would that be something you could do, Mr. Weigel?
MR. WEIGEL: It absolutely is and what you -- what you have
stated there as kind of parameters are exactly what I would have
in mind and, that is, if you give us direction in its County Attorney
and coordination with staff to come back to you, this is typical of
the public petition processes.
We come back and tell you what can be done, offer options, if
any, for things to be implemented in the future and probably
provide you some choices, some of which may be more near
term, others a little more -- a little more distant in the future.
Obviously, the Dover Cole study, the community character
study, is a work in progress right now. Yes, it does focus to
some -- certainly some significant degree to Naples Park, but it
has a ways to go. You have a lot of evaluation of it to do and it's
typically from reports like that that you give county staff
marching orders in any event.
So, we look forward to provide you information back.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And my -- my hope would be that --
I mean, my -- my vote, if you can get three, is that you be as
aggressive as you can, to be as aggressive as you legally can to
hold off Naples Park redevelopment pending the Dover Cole
study, you know, so to give us some aggressive options.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And how long is that study going
Page 32
January 23, 2001
to take?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is -- are we talking ten years?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: No, no, no, no.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: No. There--
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Months.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: This -- this is a months issue versus
even being a year and that's why I'm encouraging in this
direction to endorse the study of the Dover Cole overlay, to look
at all of that. The community is going to participate in that and
have discussions. I think it's very critical for that input.
We're really looking for mechanisms which fit better than the
variance process, because we get hit with this all the time and
when we see variances coming time after time, then we begin to
ask ourselves what is the building criteria or what is it the
community wants versus what's being tried to be varied.
So, let's put that in. And I'm just looking for a planning study
with community standards. I guess that's the best way I can put
it.
And if we evolve that out, I think it will be great. And along
with this, as the members of the board know, we're working at a
hearing examiner, so all of these will fit into the mixes as we go
so that the community is going to feel a lot better about
developing what you want to look like, your community planning
standards so that you could be a model that other -- other
communities might want to look at in the future.
So, if you'll please exercise a little patience with this and
under the direction to the County Attorney and to our community
services, their planning services division, I think we can get
where we need to be.
So, would that be sufficient direction of the --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sounds like it to me.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- members of the board, agree to that?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you very much, Vera.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: Thank you.
MR. WEIGEL: Anything further?
Item #8A1
Page 33
January 23, 2001
ACTIVITY CENTER #9 INTERCHANGE MASTER PLAN TO
PROVIDE LANDSCAPE, ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN AND
TRANSPORTATION ACCESS CRITERIA FOR THE DEVELOPMENT
OF A ZONING OVERLAY AND AMENDMENTS TO THE LAND
DEVELOPMENT CODE - CONTINUED TO FEBRUARY 13, 2001
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Let's talk about interchange
master plans. I'm --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. You like to talk about that,
commissioner, we'll just jump right over there and do that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We're talking about the Golden
Gate Parkway--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- 1-75 interchange?
As we all are aware that Florida Department of Transportation
is going to install a needed interchange on Golden Gate Parkway,
at the last MPO meeting they stated that they dedicated a million
dollars of landscaping for this project, and I would like to create
a -- or for the board to create a citizens advisory to have their
input on this interchange.
After all, this is the true entrance to our community, and I
would like to have some input from the city council, maybe have
a member of the city council there.
I wouldn't mind being on it and we have some interested -- or
people with some interest in the -- in that quarter.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Well, I think that's good.
Sandy, do you want to make some comments on that this
morning to us in terms of how we might do that process?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Amy.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Amy. I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Amy.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Amy Taylor
MS. TAYLOR: For the Golden Gate interchange? I'm sorry. I
was thinking about my item here for activity center --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. You're just getting ready for the
next item, right?
MS. TAYLOR: Yes, I am.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. You don't want to talk to us
about this.
Page 34
January 23, 2001
MS. TAYLOR: No.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. All right. I thought you were
stepping up there and you wanted to talk to us on this issue.
Commissioner Henning, I don't disagree at all with what
you're saying. I think you're --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm confused where we are on the
agenda.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah. I am, too.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Community--
MR. MULHERE: Excuse me. I'm Bob Mulhere.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: This is later.
MR. MULHERE: Correct. That's under, I think, Item 10, the
Golden Gate interchange. This is activity centers.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We're got 8(A), Community Development
and Environmental Services, recommendation for a activity
center.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: This is Activity Center, Number 9.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I stand corrected. I'm ahead of the
schedule.
Commissioner Henning, you and I were --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's all right. Going ahead of
the schedule is not bad at all.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We just jumped right --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: He just jumped right in with you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I was right with you. I mean, I --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, let's get on the same page.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We are on Item 8(A)(1), recommendation
to the board of county commissioners approve by resolution the
activity center, Number 9, interchange master plan to provide
landscape, architectural design and transportation access
criteria for that area.
And I apologize, and, Amy, you do want to talk to us about this
item.
MS. TAYLOR: Yes, I do, sir.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
MS. TAYLOR: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Henning and I are just down here
talking about something else.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's all right. We'll get there.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: It will be all right. We have two
Page 35
January 23, 2001
interchanges on the schedule this morning.
MS. TAYLOR: I know.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Go ahead.
MS. TAYLOR: Good morning. My name is Amy Taylor. For the
record, I'm with the comprehensive planning section of the
Planning Services Department.
Before you today is consideration to approve a resolution for
an interchange master plan for activities center Number 9.
The location is along 1-75, properties along -- along State Road
84 and Collier Boulevard or 951.
The -- Collier County for the last ten years has --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is State Road 84 Davis?
MS. TAYLOR: Pardon me?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is State Road 84 Davis?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Right.
MS. TAYLOR: Yes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I have to get myself -- okay. I've
got my head there now.
MS. TAYLOR: Has -- has focused more exclusively on
aesthetic improvements for the county, and in 1997 as a -- as a
brief background, I'll provide that, some history.
In 1997 through the evaluation and appraisal report of the
Growth Management Plan, the board directed that a map change
be made to the Growth Management Plan to include additional
properties within Activity Center Number 9 and also specifically
provided in text that there be the development of an interchange
master plan.
This would further that goal that the county has been working
toward to improve aesthetics within the Naples area.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Amy, may I interrupt you --
MS. TAYLOR: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: --just because I would say it just a
little more simply for members who weren't on the board at the
time, that as we say what was happening at the interchange
activities center up where the Waffle House -- I don't know what
-- Pine Ridge?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Pine Ridge, right.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And -- and the fact we didn't have
a master plan for the development of that, we were not really
happy and we tried to piecemeal fit it in and say, okay, if you're
Page 36
January 23, 2001
going to have a gas station, how many gas stations are too many
and -- and what should it look like and how -- you know, we just
didn't want to have a tacky interchange, welcome to Collier
County.
So, as we started seeing the same thing beginning to happen
at this next interchange, we had the fortune to say, stop, let's do
a master plan for the whole area, talk about land uses, talk about
architecture, talk about landscaping and now here we are.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Now, I'll move to approve -- or
move forward on this item, Mr. Chairman, and I hope that we can
abate the odor problem down there and then we'll have a Class A
interchange.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah, it will. Do those two things
and we're --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Do we have a second?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I second it. I just love the drawings
that you had and the -- and the architectural style, the old Florida
style, oh, excellent.
MS. TAYLOR: Well, thank the property owners for their
participation and Wilson-Miller for developing and envisioning
that for them.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yeah. Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, I do have some questions. I
-- I really think it's a beautiful plan you've got laid out, but I'd like
to hear from Norm to hear how this is going to impact the roads.
I'm very concerned with what we're doing in that intersection
area with some of the commercial developments that are going
in on roads that are substandard.
If this is going to alleviate the problems, great. If this is going
to complicate the problems, I'm not sure I'm for this. That I
would like to know.
MS. TAYLOR: Jeff Parian and Anita Jenkins are here with
Wilson-Miller, and they developed the text and the -- and the
graphics for the interchange master plan and have done in
addition to that extensive transportation analysis to -- in
preparation of the traffic enhancements.
There is also consideration that it will -- that FDOT will be
making some changes. It's a fluid document.
The next step for this conceptual plan will be in coordination
with FDOT and our transportation division.
Page 37
January 23, 2001
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So, we're not finalizing it today.
MS. TAYLOR: Right. This is not finalize that. This is a
conceptual and it purposefully is a fluid document so that -- so
that property owners and our -- and our staff of planning and
transportation will be able to coordinate and finalize these into
land use architectural design guides -- guidelines and access
management.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay.
But I -- I still would like to
MS. TAYLOR: Sure. Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- ask the question of Norm.
How is this outcome going to affect the roads there if we
carry through with it?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Do you like it, do you hate it, do
you not have an opinion yet?
MR. FEDER: I reviewed the document last night.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: For the record?
MR. FEDER: For the record, Norman Feder, Transportation
Administrator, Collier County.
I reviewed the document last night. I do have some concerns.
The proposal to signalize intersections 900 feet north raises
some concerns.
Also, as was pointed out, Florida DOT is very shortly going to
bring in their preferred alignment alternative, if you will, and I
believe we probably ought to wait on that, understand what that
footprint is and -- and use a lot of the good work that's been done
here and reevaluate it before we necessarily ask you to adopt
something that then folks are going to come back at us,
conceptual as it may be, and ask us to respond because the
board has passed a resolution in support of.
I think we need to wait until we have the other and go through
with it, but there is a lot of good work that's been done on the
document. I would just say if we wait for that DOT footprint,
apply the concepts here and then evaluate a little bit further the
access management issues especially in light of how the overall
footprint is going to work for traffic.
It's hard to evaluate those issues without understanding how
the interchange is going to be configured in the future.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: When might we hear from FDOT,
Norm?
Page 38
January 23, 2001
Do you have any idea?
MR. FEDER: February 2nd they're supposed to coming down
to us and provide us what they're bringing forward as their
preferred option.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Then I think I'd move to continue
this until the February 13th meeting.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We have a motion.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Because I would assume if we -- if we
vote on this today, that it might inhibit what -- what's coming
forward. I don't want to do that. I would agree.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But there is already a motion on
the floor to approve.
Did it have a second?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA.' I seconded it.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: There's a first and a second.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I remove my motion but I think
that we're just moving forward with the conceptual.
MS. TAYLOR: It is -- it is definitely conceptual, and all
throughout the document is -- is and through the preparation of
the document very consistent coordination with FDOT has been
made and would continue as the access management plans are
finalized and codified as well as the land use and architectural
design guidelines.
It is a resolution to approve in concept the interchange
master plan. So, that's -- it's really not tying you into.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So, it's still a fluid document --
MS. TAYLOR: Exactly.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- and, Mr. Feder, would that work for
you?
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Tom's got something to say.
MR. OLLIFF: -- I've got both of my staffs here telling you
something. I think my recommendation is going to be that you
do continue it. There's nothing that -- that hurts you from
continuing this and it does allow us then to come back with
something a little firmer and coordinated between FDOT.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Our consultant appears to be
Page 39
January 23, 2001
unhappy with that idea though. Is it -- is there a -- CHAIRMAN CARTER: Do we have public speakers and is that
one of the public speakers?
MR. OLLIFF: You do. You have three.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Do we lose something if we don't
adopt a resolution today or can work continue?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Can we hear from public -- well, are you
one of the public speakers?
MS. JENKINS: No, sir. I'm Anita Jenkins with Wilson-Miller.
And I think Pam was -- Commissioner Mac'Kie was directing the
question to me.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I was, if-- if you may. May I have
that?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just is there a time sensitive
nature to this?
MS. JENKINS: No, there's not a time sensitive nature. This
-- this process has been going on since 1997 EAR amendment.
The first draft was provided to staff in September, the second
draft in October, the final in November.
It has been our desire to provide you with guidelines for the
activity center in order to take advantage of applying those to
the developments that are going on and being approved right
now,
If you'll remember, not too long ago, the Golden Gate
Commercial Park PUD was approved in this activity center. And
in that PUD, it referred to be inconsistent with this activity
center master plan.
So, it's -- it's just the aesthetic value that we are trying to
base this on and get it in the LDC amendments for you. But we
are certainly not opposed to continuing the item if that's the --
your --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Meanwhile, Tom, is there a way,
because I know there's a lot of activity just about to come in.
You know, I've already been lobbied on at least one, maybe two
development projects coming at this activity center.
I don't want to lose our -- you know, the goal we sought to
attain here by delay. Maybe we should pass a resolution and
concept and continue to work on it with the FDOT.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And I really don't want to see --
Page 40
January 23, 2001
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I don't want to lose that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- see this other stuff coming at me until
I know what the master plan looks like. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Ditto.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, and as long as we've agreed to
work with Norm all the way, because Norm is our transportation
guru and he -- and we all belong to the same company. We're all
with the county. I'm -- I'm -- I'm sure they -- they should be able
to steer on --
MR. OLLIFF: We will coordinate that and if you keep in mind
that this is the last meeting of January. You talked about
continuing it to the very next meeting of the board, which is the
meeting of February 13th. There's very little that can occur in
terms of approvals between now and the next board meeting.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. Okay. I move to continue it
until the next meeting.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I have a -- I had -- did the first and
second withdraw the motions?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I will also.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No. I said I'll consider it, but I
will.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I do.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I do.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I just asked the question, just asked the
question. Okay. They're both withdrawn and I can entertain a
motion for a continuance.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So moved.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Second to that?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
Opposed by the same sign. Motion carries. Thank you very
much.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Speakers.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Do you want to hear the public speakers
on this although we're continuing it?
Do they want to speak since we're going to continue this until
the next board meeting?
Page 41
January 23, 2001
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Why don't you call them, Tom,
instead of us just staring out into blank to find out --
MR. OLLIFF: The first speaker is Dwight Nadeau followed by
Bruce Anderson.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Dwight and Bruce, will you waive
on this till the next time?
Two waives right there.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Two waives, okay. Bye-bye.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And the next one? We had one
other?
MR. OLLIFF: That was all.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That's it. Okay. Thank you.
Item #8A2
COMMERCIAL EXCAVATION PERMIT NO. 59.772, "MIKE CROUCH
COMMERCIAL EXCAVATION" LOCATED IN SECTION 30,
TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 28 EAST; BOUNDED ON THE
NORTH BY OIL WELL ROAD RIGHT-OF-WAY, ON THE SOUTH BY
31sT AVENUE N.E. RIGHT-OF-WAY, ON THE WEST BY OCCUPIED
LOT, AND ON THE EAST BY OCCUPIED LOT - APPROVED WITH
STIPULATIONS
All right. That takes us to Item 2, which is 16(A)(1) that was
pulled from the consent agenda.
Whoever pulled it needs to talk about it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's Mr. Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm the gentleman that pulled this
particular one.
Is the petitioner here for this particular item?
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Commissioner, I'm Stan Chrzanowski
with Development Services. The petitioner is not here.
I'm not the engineer on this site but all these -- this is a
particularly unremarkable typical Golden Gate Estates
excavation. I think I can answer any questions you have.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: My -- my apologies to the
petitioner who isn't here for pulling it, but I wanted to try to set a
new precedence. I think that when it comes to the excavations
that are taking place, we're treating them a little bit too lightly in
the -- how we're handling them on the consent agenda for one
Page 42
January 23, 2001
thing.
You know, this is something that should be addressed in a
much more detailed manner where it has to go through the whole
process and beginning then.
I understand there's no opposition to this and I'm not going to
try to shoot the petitioner down on this particular one. But I do
want to make a point that in the very near future we have to
address the situation that is having a major impact on our roads.
This is having a major impact on the residents that live out there
in the rural areas, to where these places can go new ones, the
hours of operation. There's a whole number of issues and I'm not
going to delay this board any further with it.
I withdraw my objection to it, but I had to use this avenue to
be able to get my feelings across.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I concur with you, Commissioner
Coletta, because I think that what we are doing here is we are
ordinance driven versus management driven -- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Exactly.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- on this process and I think what I
would like to see, with the board's permission, is some staff
direction as how do we get this into a management driven
process versus the ordinance driven process and where you
think it's appropriate to bring that to us, Tom, whether it's in a
workshop or part of our future land use elements planning, I
would like to address that. I think that's on the --
MR. OLLIFF: Some of the concerns I've heard from board
members in regards to fill operations in the estates are just there
-- there seems to be a little feel for the cumulative number that
have been approved --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Right.
MR. OLLIFF: -- the total number of impacts to the community,
timing on some of the field pet activities, so we would be happy
to bring back perhaps at least a discussion item for you to
explain perhaps what the Land Development Code does say,
what it does allow, and then see if there's any code type changes
that you'd like to make in terms of the LDC.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And maybe that will be part of the LDC
workshop.
MR. OLLIFF: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So, would that be --
Page 43
January 23, 2001
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That would be fine.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- commissioner?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Motion to approve the item.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
Motion carried. Thank you.
Item #8B1
FUNDING OF FOUR NEW POSITIONS WITHIN THE
TRANSPORTATION SERVICES DIVISION AND RELATED BUDGET
AMENDMENTS TO TRANSFER FUNDS - APPROVED
That moves us to Item B, Transportation Services, approve
funding for our new positions.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Motion to approve the item.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I'll second that motion.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
Opposed by the same sign. Motion carries.
Item #8D1
CONTRACT FOR RFP #00-3176, PRODUCTION OF BEACH
COMPATIBLE SAND - AWARDED TO E. R. JAHNA INDUSTRIES,
INC. FOR 100% COARSE SAND
That takes us to Item D, Public Services, beach compatible
sand.
And you all have bags of sand on your desk.
MS. RAMSEY: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Someone's actually used this as an
excuse to go to the beach.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I'm taking it over to my grandchild.
Hello, honey, you're going to get sand from papa.
Boy, I'll tell you my daughter-in-law is happy at that one.
I can hear her now, shaking her fist at the TV.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I found mine in the refrigerator
chilling out.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: With a sign on it that said, do not
touch, property of Commissioner Henning; right?
Page 44
January 23, 2001
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Chilled sand.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay, Maria. Try to get us to --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Maria, go ahead. We'll be all right up
here.
MS. RAMSEY: Good morning. For the record, Maria Ramsey,
Director of Parks and Recreation.
This morning staff is asking you to approve a contract with E.
R. Jahna Industries for production of 50,000 cubic yards of sand
to be placed at Park Shore and Hideaway Beach.
Jahna submitted as their bid sand that contained a slightly
higher percentage of medium grain sand particles than the
composite sample of existing sand on the beach. All other
aspects of the sand met the specifications.
This minor variation in grain size is not considered to be
detrimental but, rather, would serve to provide more stability to
the beach profile and to enhance performance.
The City of Naples did arrange to have a truckload of each
type of sand placed on the beach.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You need to back that out a little
bit, if you can, Maria.
MS. RAMSEY: And if you look at the -- there's a red line. That
was the finer beach sand that was placed on the beach and the
darker purple line was the other pile of sand that is lying on the
beach. I refer to them as finer and medium coarse grain.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But basically what that graph
shows is where they fall in the scheme of approvable sand?
MS. RAMSEY: Yeah, the whole range is the -- is the hatched
area and the yellow area is the bid spec would -- could or would
come out that far off of the -- the chart itself.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And the bid spec is --
MR. OLLIFF: It's hard to see color -- I'm sorry. It's hard to see
color, Maria.
MS. RAMSEY: Okay.
MR. OLLIFF: If you could point out that purple line as opposed
to where that red line is. That is the red line.
MS. RAMSEY: That's the purple line.
MR. OLLIFF: Purple line.
MS. RAMSEY: And the red line slides down through here.
Page 45
January 23, 2001
MR. OLLIFF: Okay.
MS. RAMSEY: And it could go out --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And the yellow can be seen. And if
I understand--
MS. RAMSEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- what the yellow is, it's the
existing sand. It's what we have at 32nd Avenue.
MS. RAMSEY: No. Actually the yellow segment is, is their bid
spec would allow them to go out that far, out of the range of the
graft.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I don't understand that.
MR. OLLIFF: The yellow is what we bid.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And what we bid though was what
we have on the -- I mean, what we were supposed to be bidding
is what we --
MS. RAMSEY: Inside the hatch mark is what we asked for the
bid to be and the bid sample came in that -- that they were
bidding in the yellow, as far out as the yellow.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Does that mean the combination of
the two grains?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The coarser sand is as far out of
the spec range as that yellow mark.
MS. RAMSEY: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I finally got it.
MS. RAMSEY: That would be the outer limits of it.
Okay? Once we were on the beach, there was a number of
citizens as well as the beach committee that was present at the
meeting. After inspecting both types of sand, the beach
committee was in a three-three split as to which sand to put on
the beach.
It is -- should be noted that E. R. Jahna Industries' production
rate of the finer sand will only produce about 6,500 cubic yards
of the finer grain sand before sea turtle nesting season begins on
May 1st. They can meet the production rate for the medium
grain sand.
The Florida Department of Environmental Protection has
approved the medium grain sand and issued a notice to proceed
as of January 5th, 2001.
Staff is recommending that a contract be awarded to E. R.
Jahna Industries in the amount of $305,290 for production of
Page 46
January 23, 2001
6,500 plus or minus cubic yards of material with a grain size just
distribution following within the range of the finer sand and
provide the balance of the 50,000 cubic yards of material with
the grain size matching that which was submitted with their bid,
the medium grain sand.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, basically, your
recommendation is that we buy all we can get of the finer grain
and fill in the majority of it with that slightly coarser material so
that we can get sand on the beach before the turtles?
MS. RAMSEY: That's correct. That's what we're
recommending. And then, of course, a budget amendment to
make up the difference in the cost, about $18,000.
Sands -- the staff's reason for recommending that is that that
particular area along Park Shore-Horizon Way has deteriorated
and that at high tide there is no dry sand.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I understand the residents were
pleased with either quality of sand that were there that morning.
Is that my understanding from what I heard? MS. RAMSEY: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, and you'll hear from --you'll hear
from speakers who I see in the audience, and I hope they're
registered to speak, who live in the area, you know, that their
satisfaction with even a hundred percent the coarser grain sand
and -- and the staff's recommendation is to mix the two.
My -- my only question about the coarser grain sand, and I
don't know -- you know, God only knows. I never wanted to know
as much about sand as I know today. I just like -- used to like
just laying on it, but -- lying on it, I think, would be correct.
Compaction -- you know, is the coarser grain -- how can I tell?
I don't want to end up with a concrete beach. Am I safe that I'm
not going to?
And, Maria, I'm telling you, if you don't know the answer to
this, don't answer it because I have been told too many things
about sand from that podium that, you know, turned out not to be
true.
MS. RAMSEY: I'm good at that. Maybe I shouldn't respond,
but my understanding is, is that the composite of the sand itself,
what the sand is made of, the types of sand that it will not
become concrete.
And we -- I can bring up someone from Michael Poff from
Page 47
January 23, 2001
Coastal Engineering to explain the composite of that sand, if you
wish. But as far as the sand composite itself, it should not and
will not produce that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I wonder if-- and no offense
intended here, but I'd like to hear from somebody else, too,
because I had a bad experience with being told something from
that same company earlier.
MS. RAMSEY: How about John Staiger with the City of
Naples?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Dr. Staiger, are you confident that
the coarser grain of sand is not going to compact into concrete?
DR. STAIGER: Yes. The--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: For the record who you are.
DR. STAIGER: Jon Staiger, City of Naples.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: For the record, please?
DR. STAIGER: Jori Staiger, City of Naples.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir. I know who you are.
DR. STAIGER: The issue with the cementation was material
way down at this end of the grain size, which was not silica
sand. It was carbonate material. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
DR. STAIGER: Fine line dust kind of stuff. And that's what
causes the cementation. So, we're -- we're dealing here with
material that is essentially in this range, which is fine and
medium sand and none of it gets even finer than that, and there
is no -- at the upper end of the thing.
This is where the problems are with the rock and this material
is all within medium or in fine grain sand, not even up into the
coarse grain sand area, so it should just be fine.
The coarser the material, the longer it's going to stay on the
beach. The finer it is, the easier it's washed away or blown
away.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And do you think this mix idea is a
good one?
DR. STAIGER: Yeah. It -- it gives a little bit more fine material
that's -- that approaches this curve better, but the coarse
material is all silica sand so we don't have any of the carbonate
stuff in it which is what troubled us before.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It was my only question and I
forgot to ask that of staff ahead of time. I apologize to the board
Page 48
January 23, 2001
members.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, that's fine. That's good because I
-- I'm glad to hear that if Jon Staiger tells me it's okay, I'm okay.
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, you've got nine registered
speakers on this item.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Go.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Go.
MR. OLLIFF: The first speaker is Bill Boggess.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And then we need to get them on the
on-deck circle.
MR. OLLIFF: Next speaker is David Roellig.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Remember, each speaker, you have five
minutes, please.
MR. BOGGESS.' Good morning. For the record I am -- my name
is Bill Boggess. I can't let it pass because today is the fifth
anniversary that our Collier County Board of Commissioners
authorized no rocks be buried in our Naples beach. And since
have had no sub attempts to complete the 25 percent shortage
which provided the beach with reduction from 145 to 79 feet but
still employ the same key employees.
Of course, the sand we're speaking about today, the citizens
voted for a tourist tax in 1992 to provide 150-foot wide beach.
1995 construction plans were for 75 foot. We got 49 feet built.
Now, you have us cut down to 25 or 30 feet. Of course, that's
better than nothing.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Bill, you know though from
conversations with me that we're still working on that widening.
That further extension is still on the table under -- still to come.
MR. BOGGESS: Good.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE.' So, please know that.
MR. BOGGESS.' The Department of Environmental Protection
developed standards for beach fill materials. In part, all fill
material placed shall be sand which is similar to that already
existing on the site in both coloration and grain size.
Only Rule 62B-41.0073 of the Florida Administrative Code
allows DEP employees authority to deviate from that rule.
On the screen is your grain distribution report showing
material grain sizes and percentages, not unlike the previous one
determined when passing standard screens.
This providing a semi picture, number one to the right is your
Page 49
January 23, 200t
sand -- is our sand down at 32nd Avenue. This line here shows
that curvature. This line, heavy line, is the bid sand.
I was happy to hear that they are going to mix the fine and the
more coarse sand. The boundaries on either side is what your
consultant decided is what would be allowed on our beaches, the
same as they allowed the rocks on our beaches earlier.
The varying -- if you note, a considerable difference in this
curvature between what is being proposed and what we have.
Mother nature seems to know best and with the native sand
she has picked her own size to prevent washing and being blown
away.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Next speaker, please.
MR. BOGGESS: It is true that the three of us voted in favor of
that which is acceptable under the codes and the county
specifications as opposed to that which was bid on.
Mr. Huber informed us that the material counting -- meeting
county and state requirements will cost us about $2 a yard more
than the bid material. This provides about a ten percent
increase in project cost.
Since 1997, we have been trying to get sand on the beach.
What is another nine months in order to have beach compatible
material which you ordered back in April 11th, 1995 but never
got?
The bottom line is do you want to be accountable and provide
us a beach with material similar to what exists or not? Thank
you.
GOMMIS$1ONER HENNING: Mr. Boggess, are you saying this
material is not compatible with what's naturally been provided at
this beach?
MR. BOGGE$$: The material that is -- was at the Hideaway
Beach is acceptable to the individual and DEP. She is in favor of
either of the materials, but she doesn't have to live on this
beach. We do.
GOMMI$$1ONER HENNING: Oh, so you're saying it's not
compatible?
MR. BOGGE$$: The material that was bid is not compatible to
the native beach.
GOMMI$SIONER HENNING: Thank you.
MR. BOGGE$S: The composite of the two mixed together, if
they can get a ratio mix there with a few more fines in it, then
Page 50
January 23, 2001
any of it is far better than anything that you've had placed on any
of the Collier County beaches since 19 -- 1990. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
MR. OLLIFF: The next speaker is David Roellig followed by
Jim Snediker.
MR. ROELLIG: Good morning. My name is David Roellig. I'm a
-- live at Pelican Bay Boulevard. And I'm the chairman, the
current chairman, of the beach renourishment committee.
I'd like to start off by apologizing. We are the advisory
committee and we come with a split vote, which is not very
helpful, I guess.
I think there is a great need for this sand. There is an -- at
high tide there is wave action and water goes up to the seawalls
south of the Horizon Way and the north side where there aren't
as many seawalls but there's some natural bank, you can see the
bank is sloughing, and I think it's very important to get this sand
in before turtle season because the situation won't get any
better before November certainly.
We've -- this is the second time this has been bid. We had one
bid several months ago. We -- we've gone out and tried to get
additional bidders. This was rebid again and we still have only
one bid and we've -- I personally feel that the -- while I'm always
somewhat cautious of only having one bid, I think the -- the cost
is reasonable and not excessive.
I think that we should go forward with this. I think the sand is
not the -- greatly different.
I would like to point out that about -- of this 50,000 yards,
about 35,000 will be at the Park Shore beach, 15,000 will be on --
will go to Hideaway Beach, and it's my understanding Hideaway
Beach and Marco Island has no problem whatsoever with this
sand.
So, for the 15,000, I think that's -- you know, it's a no brainer.
I think people who have -- live on this shore should have some
say in this. Well, I strongly recommend that you go ahead and
award this contract. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you.
Next speaker, please.
MR. OLLIFF: The next speaker is Jim Snediker followed by
Jon Staiger.
MR. SNEDIKER: My name is Jim Snediker. I'm a county
Page 51
January 23, 2001
appointee to the Naples/Collier County beach committee also.
I live on the Marco Island, specifically at Hideaway Beach is
where I live.
I was not able to attend the special meeting that we had
regarding the sand at the beach at the Park Shore. We -- our
committee had reviewed the sand before, felt the sand, looked at
the -- the S curves and so on.
They're -- the two sands are very, very similar. One is slightly
finer as opposed to the other one is slightly coarser.
If I would have been at the meeting, I would have voted for--
for the coarser sand. I would have voted, so it would have been
four to three but I was not at the meeting.
I just sent a letter to Dr. Staiger beforehand expressing my
viewpoints.
As far as the City of Naples, if they would like to have some of
the finer sand mixed with it, that would improve the sand slightly
for them.
As far as the rest of the county, as far as I'm concerned,
Hideaway Beach, Marco Island, although I cannot speak for
Hideaway Beach or Marco Island, the coarser sand is very, very
satisfactory.
It has been proposed by Mrs. Ramsey, your director of Parks
and Recreation, is very satisfactory, I think.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Next speaker, please.
MR. OLLIFF: The next speaker is Dr. Staiger followed by Ron
Pennington?
DR. STAIGER: For the record again, Jori Staiger, Natural
Resources Manager, City of Naples.
Present membership of the beach committee is nine
members, six of whom were at that meeting on the beach and
the -- and the vote was three/three.
Recommendation from myself, Mr. Huber, Mr. Poff and several
other engineers who were there, Humiston and Moore, who
represent the Marco beach end of things, I believe, they've been
doing the Hideaway Beach engineering, all of us recommend
buying this coarser material.
If you throw in the finer stuff with it and blend it, that's even
better, but as I mentioned a few minutes ago, this coarser stuff
Page 52
January 23, 2001
is still not even coarse sand, its coarser than fine, which makes
it medium, so this is so closely compatible with what's on the
beach that I think worrying about a little digression from that
curve is just not worth it.
The state has approved it. The people of Park Shore are
desperately in need of some sand up there because we couldn't
do it last year because the material that we ended up with,
which you are all in litigation over with the -- the sand quarry was
set up like a shell rock road and would not be -- I mean, we would
have put it on the beach and had to take it off again.
So, I recommend that you go ahead and buy this stuff.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Dr. Staiger, just a quick question for my
edification. Would it be practically impossible on any beach
anywhere to find exactly the same sand off beach to bring in
there that would be a matching quality? I mean, are we looking
for something that just could never happen?
DR. STAIGER: Well, the -- the people who mine it upland tend
to mine stuff that is like that material, is almost all one grade or
another, and the way you achieve something is to blend finer and
coarser and medium.
And that's what E. R. Jahna can do to produce this finer
material, but it's more expensive and they -- and they -- and it's a
more time consuming process.
That's why these grain sized curves are parallel, fairly broad
bands, because even the variation on the beach, if you take a
sample from in front of the dune, it's going to be very fine sand
that's blown up there.
You take a sample at the edge of the -- the, you know, low
tide area, it may be all shell, everything finer having been
washed away so that the -- these are composite samples and --
and I don't know that you'd ever find one source that exactly
matched a specific location on the beach, but the stuff moves up
and down all the time so it really doesn't make much difference.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So, for my understanding this sand
will be blended as it goes on?
DR. STAIGER: Yeah. I believe what they're going to do is -- is
they'll truck in the 50,000 yards at -- you know, several trucks full
of the coarser stuff and a truck full of the finer when they can
produce a truck full and they'll just mix it all up and they may end
Page 53
January 23, 2001
up with the finer stuff on top, which would be fine.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' So, my understanding is the
coarse sand will stay in place longer than the finer sand; is that
correct?
DR. STAIGER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And' there's -- there's no
difference but with the coarse sand we have a limited amount to
work with? Is that the problem?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The finer.
DR. STAIGER: The finer.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The fine sand.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The finer sand.
DR. STAIGER: The coarse sand there is an adequate amount.
Well, I know on Hideaway Beach, for example, the erosion
that was taking place, they were telling me, the one
condominium, if something wasn't done, it would be undermined
in like five years and the other one within ten years.
I would think that in that particular location the coarse sand
would be obviously the answer.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I was going to suggest that
the mixed sand all be used on the Naples beach because we
know that --
DR. STAIGER: Yeah, that's --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- it's more similar?
DR. STAIGER: I think that's the plan.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And that the Hideaway Beach get
all the coarser sand?
DR. STAIGER: Yeah. Hideaway is -- Hideaway is in desperate
need of -- of a whole plan to renourish that. And I believe that's
in the works with county staff to do a major effort down there.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But, respectfully, go out there in
your bare feet and I dare you tell the difference. DR. STAIGER: I was.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I'll tell you what. If anyone
out there would like to try it, I have two samples up here that you
can -- you're more than welcome to --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Don't open this bag, because you're
going to have trouble.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right.
Page 54
January 23, 2001
DR. STAIGER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Next--
MR. OLLIFF: Ron Pennington is your next speaker followed by
Jane Earle.
MR. PENNINGTON: Good morning, Chairman Carter and
commissioners. Ron Pennington, City of Naples, Gulf Shore
Boulevard. I live directly across the street from the beach in
question, Horizon Way.
I keep hearing you talk about Park Shore beach. I happen to
live on the Moorings side of it. Horizon Way actually is where
they're bisected by the Park Shore/Moorings line, and so, I think,
actually more than 50 percent of the beach we're talking about is
on the Moorings side so --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- being a Moorings person, I just wanted
to make that point.
A number of comments -- well, there are several things Mr.
Boggess said that I wouldn't agree with, but that in itself is not
abnormal.
The nature of the sand, we, the residents there, unanimously,
we looked at it at the time of the special meeting. Our
preference was for the coarser sand, not a blend, not a mixture
but the coarser, the reason being it has greater staying power.
And we have a beach there that is limited in width as to how
wide it can be because we're in close proximity to the hard
bottom offshore.
DEP will not allow us to build the sand out to where any of
that would get on that hard bottom because there's too many
critters that live out there and such and we don't want to do
anything to them.
So, we're limited on beach width. We want sand that's going
to stay there. We also recognize that for a period of time of
while that's being put in place, we're going to be inundated with
humongous trucks that going to be coming down across the Park
Shore bridge and leaving across the Harbour Drive bridge and
that's fine.
We need that sand. We need that beach but we don't want it
to happen anymore often than is necessary, so we want sand
that's going to stay there. We'll be perfectly happy for the fines
Page 55
January 23, 2001
to go down to Marco or wherever and give us the coarse sand.
And we're the people up there. I heard somebody say
something about the residents, they're making the decisions.
We're the people that are there. We're the people that are going
to be walking in that sand. And we talk about what is the most
common sand.
Well, as Dr. Staiger had mentioned, you know, the finer sand
blows around, it gets suspended in water much more readily. It
migrates. And, as he said also, you'll find that finer sand up
around the seawall where it blows up there. It also blows away.
We get the easterlies that whip down between the condos and
blows it all out to sea in that case.
So, there's very little difference. Before that little difference,
we would prefer the coarser material.
Now, about what kind of sand we have on our beach also, as
Dr. Staiger said, you'll find the fines up here. You get down on
the beach end, why I'm a guy that's been digging in that sand for
18 years because I go down there and I dig for sand fleas to be
used for bait and I can tell you the composition of this sand in
much of our beaches and it's not constant.
And if you get down into the little ledge that builds up in the
surf, that's where the sand fleas are and you get a lot of shell
content in there, there's a lot of variation in the sand size and all.
But we urge that you provide for us that that we want, which
is the coarse sand. I thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir.
Next speaker, please.
MR. OLLIFF.' Jane Earle followed by Doug Finlay.
MS. EARLE: I'm Jane Earle and I'm president of the Gulf Shore
Condo Association.
Also, I want to welcome our new city council -- I mean, county
commissioners.
I really sent all of you a fax regarding our position on this and
I just really wanted to read into the record and update that.
When we all went down to this meeting and compared the
sand -- we're lay people we don't understand, you know, rains
and all of this stuff; however, I defy anyone to tell me the
difference between these two sands.
I, of course, and most of our constituents want this coarser
sand badly. And the reason -- the color is the same, the texture
Page 56
January 23, 2001
is the same and you cannot tell the difference, but the fact that it
is, of course, less expensive, that doesn't mean as much to me
personally as it does stay on the beach.
And on a day like today when you look out our window, you
can appreciate the fact that anything that will stay on that beach
is far more important.
The other update I wanted to -- to point out was I went to -- I
was at the Park Shore Association board meeting at which we
had about 150 people there. These people with their beach park,
we have the two samples of sand and there were absolutely no
complaints as far as the texture, the color, and the most
important issue is to do it and do it now and so that we don't
have to wait any longer.
I questioned everyone that I could after the Park Shore
Association board meeting. Everyone was very, very pleased
with both samples but could tell very little difference between
the coarse and the finer.
So, I, too, would like to see all of the coarse sand on the Park
Shore beach and Hideaway Beach and the dunes is the finer.
Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I've just -- I've just got to say I'll be
darned if I'm going to spend more money to put something on the
beach that is not wanted by the area neighbors, if it's at
Hideaway or at Park Shore. I mean, just get ready to hear a
motion from me for a hundred percent coarse sand.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: In that's a motion, I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's a motion.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Anybody want to talk us out of it?
MR. FINLAY: I'm Doug Finlay and I live on Gulf Shore
Boulevard, a neighbor of Ron Pennington's.
And I was at the beach meeting because I've been very
concerned about what's been happening to the beach over at
Horizon.
Virtually every morning of every week I run on this beach. I
was out there at six a.m. this morning. I was out there yesterday
morning in the rain and the drizzle at six a.m. running.
The portion of the beach that I use stretches from Clam Pass
to the Publix access just north of Doctor's Pass. It's a distance
of more than three miles.
Page 57
January 23, 2001
As I run on this beach, I see how it changes. Sand comes and
goes, the slope increases and then flattens. Sometimes these
changes are dramatic and even noticeable from one day to the
next. It all depends on the waves and the winds.
However, one thing that has changed little in the last few
years is the fact that there isn't much of a beach between the
public access points at Horizon and Redatto Ways. In fact, at
many high tides there is no dry beach to the immediate south of
Horizon Way.
For people like me, who don't want to run or walk in the
water, especially cold water like we have now, we must leave
the beach at Horizon and go out to Gulf Shore Boulevard and
rejoin the beach at Redatto.
This problem is not a recent occurrence. It has been this way
for about one and a half to two years. The problem has been
made worse possibly by the fact that the St. Croix Club
Condominium seawall intrudes into the beach creating an
obstruction at many high tides.
I'm quite sure that this seawall and the seawall at the
Continental Club contributes substantially to the severe erosion
of the beach in this area.
However, there is nothing you or I can do about the problems
these seawalls may create. They are grandfathered and as far
as I know cannot be removed. As a result the county must now
deal with a problem area, what I would call a continuing hot
spot, a place that will often need sand replenishment.
This is also an area of the beach where there is not one but
two public access points. In fact, for nearly a three-mile stretch
of beach, this area has the best public access.
Unfortunately, this area of the beach is also the most
unusable at high tide because it has been allowed to deteriorate.
If you doubt me, drive out to Horizon Way, look south, look at
the high tide line and you will immediately understand the unique
problem in this area.
For these reasons, it's absolutely critical that the sand that
you select to replenish this area of the beach needs to be of a
variety that will best resist the effects of wind and wave erosion.
Otherwise, you'll be trucking in sand far more often in this area
of the beach than it already requires.
Page 58
January 23, 2001
Also, we need the sand now. In fact, we needed it a year or
two ago. To wait until fall and complete this desperately needed
project is a needless inconvenience to the residents and the
visitors of Horizon and Redatto Parks.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Question. Seawalls, if they're
such a detriment, why don't we come up with a special
assessment to cover the cost of the sand we have use to replace
it, to replace that that keeps getting lost? A suggestion.
Obviously I don't own a house with a seawall.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Obviously, you made not want to go
there, commissioner.
Let me -- any other speakers?
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, I just note for the record the last
two speakers, Bruce Anderson and David Somers following the
motion waived.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you very much.
We have a first, we have a second. All in fair of the motion,
signify by saying aye.
Opposed by the same sign. Motion carries 5/0. Thank you.
MR. OLLIFF: And just so that I'm --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We--
MR. OLLIFF: And just so that I'm clear on that motion, the
motion was the --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Hundred percent coarse sand.
MR. OLLIFF: Okay.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We need to take a break for our
recorder. We'll take ten and when we come back, we will stay
on schedule with the next item for the county manager and that
will be (G)(1). We have been able to achieve what we needed to
-- to bring that forward to the commission. Thank you.
(A recess was had.)
Item #8E1
RESOLUTIONS 2001-27 THROUGH 2001-29, AUTHORIZING THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE
THE APPROPRIATE DOCUMENTATION REQUIRED TO EXPEDITE
THE COUNTY'S LAND RIGHTS ACQUISITION PROGRAM FOR THE
Page 59
January 23, 2001
CALENDAR YEAR 2001 CHAIRMAN'S TENURE ONLY - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We're back in section. We are now at
Item (E)(1), which is a poll from the consent agenda.
Commissioner Coletta may like to address the board.
MR. OLLIFF: Thank you. Perhaps in just in the interest of
time, we can go ahead and let Commissioner Coletta ask the
questions that he might have on that particular item. 16(E)(1)
was the item that was just pulled off the consent agenda
regarding the resolutions for the purchase of real property.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right. Now, my concern is what
was the depth of this? What are we exactly authorizing? I didn't
want it to be homes and lay the burden totally on your shoulder
then when it came down to it. What depth are we going as far as
property acquisitions takeovers, whatever you want to call it?
MR. CARRINGTON: Well, good morning. My name is Chuck
Carrington. I'm the real property management director.
This is my first time to speak with you and I appreciate that.
What you're doing here, there's three different resolutions
here that are attached to this part right here that we're talking
about. And I'll just give you a little brief overview of it.
The first resolution just deals with basically developer
contribution agreements and gives the authority to the chairman
to sign all documents in relation to that which the developers are
required to dedicate, you know, road right-of-way and so forth for
drainage facilities or whatever. That just addresses that issue
on that.
The second resolution is just basically a statement
recommending that in negotiations for road right-of-way that the
preferred method of the county is for us to acquire it in fee
simple, that we have a hundred percent interest in the property.
It goes on to say that if we're unable to negotiate, if the
owner is unwilling to give us fee title, then that, that we would
have the right then to negotiate an easement and secure title in
easement instead of fee.
The last resolution pretty much addresses our entire process.
And it's broken down into numbers down there, if you wanted to
look at them. Parcel -- Item Number One at the bottom of Page 1,
basically, it waives that we -- waives us the requirement to
secure an appraiser from an -- an appraisal from an independent
Page 60
January 23, 2001
appraiser.
In lieu, it gives us the right to in-house prepare a market
analysis agreement. They call it something else, here. They call
it a staff compensation estimate, but it's the same thing. And we
have a qualified in-house staff member that can do that.
As a matter of practice, the work load that we've had over the
last few years, we haven't been doing that. We've been using
outside appraisers in every instance. But it does give us a
flexibility.
If Mr. Feder was to show down -- slow down on his projects
here and we have a little bit more time, we may do this.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No, no, no, no.
MS. RAMSEY: It's a benefit. It's a savings to the county but it
gives us the flexibility of doing it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: My concern was just for the
property owners, to make sure that they're -- the process wasn't
shorting them as far as it goes.
And for the most part, you've satisfied my concerns.
MR. CARRINGTON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And I'll make a motion to adopt it
as is.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
Motion approved. Opposed by the same sign? Motion
approved 5/0. Thank you.
MR. CARRINGTON: Thank you for your time. Appreciate it.
Item #8G1
RESOLUTION 2001-30, ORDERING AND CALLING FOR THE
ELECTION OF MEMBERS TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS OF
THE COLLIER COUNTY PELICAN BAY SERVICES DISTRICT BY
QUALIFIED ELECTORS, TO BE HELD BY SPECIAL ELECTION ON
APRIL 26, 2001 - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. We are able to stay with the
agenda order and go to county manager (G)(1). There had been
some discussions with the Supervisor of Elections.
And, Mr. Weigel, before we proceed, I would like you to share
with us where we are on this ordinance as far as the date to set
Page 61
January 23, 2001
this to be electing supervisors to the taxing authority in Pelican
Bay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: If I may, before he even does that,
I need to just state for the record that I'm going to continue to
assert a conflict on this matter. More than an actual conflict
because I don't have a -- currently an employer relationship, but
because of the concern about the appearance of impropriety, I'm
going to assert a conflict and what abstain from discussion and
vote.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, Commissioner Mac'Kie.
Mr. Weigel.
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and commissioners.
On this item, (G}(1}, it's entitled a resolution ordering and
calling for the election of members to the Board of Supervisors of
the Collier County Pelican Bay Services District by qualified
electors to be held by special election on a specific date.
And pursuant to Ordinance 2000-82 adopted by the board on
November 28th, 2000, that ordinance is the Pelican Bay Services
District ordinance and it provides that there shall be an election
to elect a seven-member board of supervisors within 180 days of
the adoption of the ordinance.
Working in a coordinated way with the Supervisor of
Elections, Jennifer Edwards, we had for purposes of meeting the
agenda put in a -- call it a fail safe date of May 9th, 2001 for the
special election for the supervisor candidate positions for this
services district.
We're continuing to work with her as we approach the
agenda. She has indicated to us that all things necessary in
regard to elections functions, including the notices for a
qualifications, qualifications for candidates, both by filing fee
and/or by petition, the opening of the books, the times for
reporting by treasurers.
All of those things can be accomplished with an election
moved up to a date of April 26th, 2001. The purpose of moving
the date forward, if possible, is to capture as many of the
electors residing within the Pelican Bay Services district
boundaries that would be here during season.
Notwithstanding the fact that there may be some electors
who either will have traveled back to other residence or were not
here in the first place, there is still full opportunity pursuant to
Page 62
January 23, 2001
law for proper notice and absentee ballot on procedures to be
implemented fully compliant with law.
So, with that, I would ask the board, after its review and
discussion of this item and any speakers, to adopt a resolution
authorizing the chairman to sign, that I will prepare during the
course of this week, which will provide for all of the elements
that I've mentioned to you in just moments ago; specifically, the
election date of April 26th, a special election date for the Pelican
Bay Services district, as well as the qualifying fee requirements,
notice requirements that they're all required by this ordinance
and by general law.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, Mr. Weigel.
Again, to the members of the board, there's been a long
review process in Pelican Bay of this ordinance for -- to my
knowledge, of at least 18 months with meetings with -- with the
three major groups in Pelican Bay are the foundation, property
owners association and the taxing authority, the MSTBU.
All of those groups have approved the change in the
ordinance which essentially says they have a right to now elect
their supervisors versus them being appointed by the board of
county commissioners.
The final authority for their budgets, for any -- any taxation,
anything that they want to do, we are the final authority. That
does not change. We're the ones that ultimately say yea or nay
to this.
And that's to assure the residents that this taxing authority
can't just go in and arbitrarily do things that they couldn't do in
the past. Those safeguards are built into the ordinance.
I have listened to all of the discussions in Pelican Bay. There
are some who do not like to change. What I will tell you, that
probably 80 percent of the people that I know in the organization
have told me they want to change.
Ever since I've been a commissioner, people have come to me
and said, why can't we elect our supervisors on this taxing
authority versus you appointing them?
I think it depoliticizes the process, takes it out of a few
people coming to me and saying I want these two people to take
these places on this board versus the community saying, who's
going to run, listen to them state their points of view and then
electing them.
Page 63
January 23, 2001
It gives them the freedom to elect the representation versus
having it appointed. So, I've honored the requests of that
community and followed this process and that's why the
ordinance was passed by this board of county commissioners
and that's why we're here today to get the election date set so
even if there are nonvoters in the bay, they at least will have an
opportunity to participate in those election discussions, hear the
people who are running and, of course, know the people who are
duly erected or duly registered voters in the State of Florida and,
of course, they may be able to influence their friends and
neighbors even though they're not residents.
But I was very, very concerned that we get this done before
May 1. As you know after April 30th, people have a tendency to
exit this area pretty rapidly in a lot of these communities. So,
that's why it's in front of us this morning.
I am going to make a motion that we approve this ordinance
and date.
MR. WEIGEL: Resolution.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I will look for a second and then we will
have -- there's public speakers that are signed up that you can
hear from.
So, I'm going to entertain a motion that we approve this
resolution and look for a second from a board member.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I would like to hear the public on
this item.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, you will before we vote on it. All
I'm looking is to get it on the floor, then we get public input and
then go from there.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I think there's some reservations
about the second because of some of the going ons -- some of
the presentations we've been getting from the limited number of
the public out there.
And there's a little bit of a -- I need this on there on the part of
the board because of these. These people have been coming
forward and saying that they don't feel that they had a chance to
be able to approve this particular thing and you're going to hear
very shortly from them.
But in order, in all fairness, the fact that we have gone so far
and now I'm going to continue the work with these people that
still have a problem and show them how they can reach out to
Page 64
January 23, 2001
their neighbors to see that if their -- their feelings are felt by
them with a straw ballot, which they seem interested in doing. I
am going to give you that second for that reason.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I appreciate that and then we need to
listen to everyone concerned about that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It doesn't mean I'm going to vote
in favor of it. I'm going to give you a second --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I understand, commissioner.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- so we can proceed.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I just want to get it on the table so that
we can deal with the situation.
All right, we can go to public speakers.
MR. OLLIFF: The first speaker Frances Barsh followed by
David Roellig.
MS. BARSH: Good morning. This is always too high.
I'm Frances Barsh. I'm a registered voter of Collier County
and I reside in Pelican Bay.
On October 24th, the last meeting of the old commission, Item
8(B)(1) was brought up to obtain direction from the board of
commissioners for the County Manager and County Attorney to
review an ordinance changing the government of Pelican Bay.
This ordinance was prepared under the direction of the
Pelican Bay Property Owners Association not under the direction
of the people of Pelican Bay.
On November 28th, the very first meeting of the new board of
county commissioners, this ordinance was brought to vote and
passed.
At the time of that meeting, the vast majority of Pelican Bay
residence and voters were not informed about this matter.
Notice of consideration for this ordinance appeared in the
November 17th legal column of the Naples Daily News. This
followed the letter of the law but did it actually make the people
of Pelican Bay aware of what was transpiring?
I invite you to examine the minuscule print and ask you how
many average people do you know who read the legal notices?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I do.
MS. BARSH: This is -- you're very unusual.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, thank you.
MS. BARSH: This is the kind of notice that appeared --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Nice to know you're unusual,
Page 65
January 23, 200t
commissioner.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I like to be different.
MS. BARSH: -- in the paper.
I'd like you to compare this to a Notice of Comprehensive Plan
Change, Public Notice, a Notice of Homestead Exemption, a
Notice of Public Hearing for Citizen Input on Community Housing
and Community Development and another Notice of Public
Hearing. Compare these.
Actually, in this instance, the people of Pelican Bay were truly
information deprived.
The months of November and December had tremendous
distractions. The national elections and precious family time at
Thanksgiving and Christmas, which also translated into the
board of county commissioners holiday break.
This precluded the recall of Ordinance 2000-82, which calls
for the election under discussion today because the 30-day
window for such recall expired before the next January 9th
commission meeting and circumvented any action by the people
of Pelican Bay.
The MSTBU has been and is a working model of good,
efficient, economical and sound government. There was no
outcry from the people of Pelican Bay for a change in
government.
Did the commission receive a multitude of petitions from the
people of Pelican Bay for such a change? No.
When there is an application for a simple code variance, a
letter stating exactly the code change is sent registered directly
to all the people affected. Did the property owners association
or any of the other proponents of Ordinance 2000-82 send a copy
of this ordinance directly or registered to the residents, property
owners, home owners or voters of Pelican Bay so that they could
factually evaluate the impacts of the change of government in
the community before the ordinance was adopted? No.
Pelican Bay is a unique community. It is a community which
under the MSTBU and its a pointed advisory board has worked as
an equitable whole. Currently, the majority of Pelican Bay
taxpayers are not registered voters as they are seasonal.
And an elected board of supervisors will not be representing
the majority of the community as equitably as does the present
appointed MSTBU advisory board.
Page 66
January 23, 2001
To foster an inequitable system of favored representation for
the minority is in effect adopting a policy of taxation without
representation. And an invitation to the balkanizing effects of
politicization which Ordinance 2000-82 will impose upon the
community.
Ordinance 2000-82 is a local county ordinance. As such, it
can be repealed and amended by the county. We request that
the county advertise to repeal Ordinance eight -- 2000-82. We
request that the election under discussion be postponed to the
next November regular election.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You need to wrap it up, ma'am.
MS. BARSH: I would just like to make an additional remark.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You may.
MS. BARSH: That April 26 follows Easter, which is April 16th.
April 16th is very much a day when people do leave Pelican Bay
because they joined families at that holiday time; therefore, the
November date would be much, much more reasonable. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I need to correct one thing in your
statement. You're implying that people will not be represented.
You have to be a registered voter in the State of Florida in order
to serve on that MSTBU whether you're elected or appointed.
There's no difference.
MS. BARSH: Yes. However, there is an arm's length between
an appointed and an elected individual. The elected -- the
appointed is the same for a voter who is voting and appointed is
the same for a person who is not voting.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: They're the same because --
MS. BARSH: The majority--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- The person can speak, ma'am, in front
of that MSTBU. The way it is now, it's politicized. No more than
probably half a dozen people determine who I should bring to this
board of county commissioners to be appointed to that taxing
authority.
That is probably the closest of back-room politics that I can
ever equate.
MS. BARSH: This is very good but do you know what eight
campaigns within a small community like this won't do?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Oh, I'm well aware of what the
campaign will be all about and I think it's gets people -- it's just
Page 67
January 23, 2001
an opinion, Miss Barsh, that people have a right to hear who is
going to run. Today they have no opportunity to hear from the
people who are eventually appointed to that MSTBU.
MS. BARSH: But the people who have been appointed have
been responsible. They have responded to the people who vote
as well as to the people --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I wouldn't disagree with you.
MS. BARSH: -- who do not vote. And --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: There's no question about the quality of
people there.
MS. BARSH: -- these people have been very qualified. The
MSTBU runs like a model of government. There is no need for
another layer for a manager, for staff, for engineer, for attorneys.
There is no need for that. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You're more than welcome.
Next speaker, please.
MR. WEIGEL: The next speaker is David Roellig, and he'll be
followed by Charles Popper.
MR. ROELUG: Good morning, again. I'm David Roellig. I'm a
resident, a full-time resident of Pelican Bay. And I'm also a
member of the MSTBU advisory committee.
I protest the establishment of an election cycle for several
reasons. One of them is that this election will be -- I feel this is a
flaw in the ordinance. This election will be a special election. It
will paid for entirely by the voters of Pelican Bay.
The way the ordinance is written, all future elections will also
be paid by the voters of Pelican Bay because they will fall on an
odd year.
County elections in Collier County are held in even years.
There won't be another county election until the year 2002.
I think it's a -- one of the, what I feel are a number of flaws in
this ordinance, that we will be paying for special elections from
now on out.
I think that they -- there was some talk about the meetings
and so forth. And I -- while there have been some meetings, I
have to in my personal characteristic -- characterization of these
meetings, particularly by the Pelican Bay property owners there,
that there was basically a sales pitch for this.
There's been very little discussion within the community and I
hear many people come up to me and said they're opposed to
Page 68
January 23, 2001
this. I think this .-- some times should be provided for this
community to work out the problems that this ordinance will
develop into.
My-- my final item is that -- the question who's going to pay
for this ordinance. My understanding and I -- from Mr. Weigel, I
think from our County Manager also, indicated that the Clerk of
the Court indicated the MSTBU has no authority to spend money
to pay for this election.
I don't think there's much incentive for us to vote for the -- pay
for it in case why we would want to have an election if we have
to pay the whole hundred percent costs.
If the election is held with a county election, we'd only pay a
small portion of what we would otherwise have to pay.
So, it's my view that because it's out of sync, as a minimum,
the -- the -- this ordinance should be amended to get in sync with
the county elections. And I think that would give the people in
Pelican Bay time to consider this ordinance of whether or not we
want to continue to go forward with it or request repealed.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, David.
MR. OLLIFF: The next speaker is Charles Popper followed by
Peter Gerbosi.
MR. POPPER: Good morning. My name is Charles Popper. I
reside in Villa Lantana.
I would like to thank you for giving me an opportunity to
discuss the recently approved ordinance pertaining to the
governance of Pelican Bay.
By way of introduction, I've been a Pelican Bay resident for
the past 13 years, most of which time I was a very active
member of the Pelican Bay community.
I served two terms on the MSTBU board. I was a board
member and vice-president of the Pelican Bay Foundation,
Co-founder and Director of the Pelican Bay Business Association,
President of the Villa Lantana association and former managing
Director of The Registry resort.
During those years I was involved with the governance issues
of Pelican Bay; in particular, whenever the subject of
incorporation, annexation or status quo was brought forward by
the Pelican Bay Property Owners Association.
I could never, nor could the majority of the residents of
Page 69
January 23, 200t
Pelican Bay understand the advantages of making a change in
the manner in which we were governing.
Most of us were satisfied and felt that annexation with the
City of Naples would prove -- would provide less autonomy than
we currently enjoyed. Incorporation would prove costly and an
unnecessary layer of government and certainly not in our best
interest, persons status quo.
In the January edition of the Pelican Bay Post, the official
publication of the Pelican Bay Foundation, there was a lengthy
article on the front page entitled Governance Ordinance meets
community goals written by the Pelican Bay Property Owners
Association.
It listed issues of concern that needed to be addressed by the
new recommended governance approach. I would hasten to
point out the similarity of concerns for the passage of the new
ordinance mirrors exactly the reasons that Pelican Bay Property
Owners Association used years ago to further their efforts of
incorporation.
It is also noteworthy that these concerns in support of the
ordinance can in no way resolve or improve these issues.
Let me give you an example or a few examples. The property
owners are substantial donors to the county and state with little
being returned. As you know, the reimbursement of this nature
could only take place under incorporation.
They stated that the county won't pay for the mangrove
restoration. Again, there is nothing in the ordinance that would
allow any refund to Pelican Bay.
They stated that we were obliged to pay for extra payment for
sheriff patrol. Well, years ago the request by Pelican Bay
residents, the MSTBU voted to tax ourselves for 24-hour day
additional protection over and above the normal scheduled
sheriffs patrol that were paid through our regular taxes.
Number four, beach assess must be remain solely for Pelican
Bay property owners. This argument has been used time and
time again whenever the governance issues were brought up by
the Pelican Bay Property Owners Association. This statement is
intended to frighten the residents who have purchased in Pelican
Bay.
Again, the passage of this ordinance does not provide any
additional assurances.
Page 70
January 23, 200t
The last item that I would like to bring forward is the Pelican
Bay Property Owners Association in their article stated that after
the county took over the Pelican Bay improvement district, they
created a weak MSTBU to which the county appoints its
members.
I would -- I would state that this is a false statement. During
the time I served on the board, I can attest that we had a strong,
relatively independent body that had little or no interference
from the county regarding budget requests or other initiatives.
The manner in which this ordinance was developed and
passed took advantage of the time frame when many residents
had already departed for the summer.
When questioned, we were advised that numerous meetings
were held in which the ordinance was discussed and ample time
for questions and answers were provided.
On the contrary, I would state that these meetings took place
during the monthly MSTBU, Foundation and president council
meetings where often less than 20 people were in attendance.
On January the 5th, Pelican Bay Property Owners Association
sponsored a public meeting at The Registry. After the ordinance
was adopted, it was obvious that by the questions put forth to
the moderator that a great number of people attending were not
aware of the ordinance or its passage.
This ordinance will dramatically change our form of
governance and give far reaching authority to the seven elected
supervisors, amongst which they have the -- may I finish?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes.
MR. POPPER: Amongst which they have the ability to hire and
fire personnel to retain consultants for any project, to construct
buildings, the right to sue and be sued, borrow money and issue
bonds for any district purpose, the powers of eminent domain
and to increase the ad valorem tax for operational purposes
exclusive of debt service on bonds up to two mills or
approximately ten times the rate for the current year.
I ask you, in -- incorporation and the City of Pelican Bay be far
behind.
The bottom line is that if a new form of governance has been
thrust upon the residents of Pelican Bay, which they did not
request and did not approve. We emphatically petition the
Collier County commissioners that all registered voters of
Page 71
January 23, 2001
Pelican Bay be heard, that their voice be counted through the
normal accepted democratic voting process. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Next speaker, please.
MR. OLLIFF: The next speaker is Peter Gerbosi followed by
Erika Cook.
MR. GERBOSI: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the
board. Peter Gerbosi, full-time resident of Pelican Bay, ten-year
resident of Collier County.
And the points I wish to raise are two and very small and brief
points. I'm not adverse to change when change is good. This is
a proven by my working on the City of Naples 41/10 Committee
recommending a number of changes for the improvement of the
downtown area.
I moved into Pelican Bay approximately two years ago.
During that two years, I was never made aware of the potential
or the presentation of this ordinance. Neither were any of the
others that was in my community of Willowbrook.
We about six months ago received a questionnaire from the
Foundation sent to every member of the Pelican Bay asking us do
we like the way the tennis courts are, do we like the way the
beaches are, do we like the way the restaurants are and yet an
issue as important as this was never presented on an individual
basis by petition or by questionnaire to the residents of Pelican
Bay.
I may approve it but I had not had the opportunity to review it
to approve it.
The second -- and I think that's wrong. And I think this should
be delayed and I think every member should be petitioned.
The second point I wish to raise again is this election. I've
been involved with elections for years and years and years as
Jim may know.
It's -- the election is in an off year. It's a special election.
And my understanding, it will cost us anywhere around $6,000 or
more for this special election and it's going to cost us that every
election because the way the ordinance is written we have to
have an election every two years, and every two years it's going
to get an off year, is going to have a special election and
additional expense.
I propose and I suggest to the board that this election be
postponed until the normal voting day of November 2002. Thank
Page 72
January 23, 2001
you,
MR. OLLIFF: The next speaker is Erika Cook followed by
Raymond O'Connor.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That question about election has come
up several times, commissioners, and the reason that we were
trying to do this was to do it when there was a maximum number
of people present in Pelican Bay. When we get into the normal
election cycle, you often do not have an opportunity for those
who are running to communicate to those people who are not
there, who are trying to stay in that window from November to
April for the people who are there, much like the City of Naples
does when they try to have their elections when everybody is
here.
And that was the objective and the purpose behind the
thinking. I also -- and Attorney Weigel commented on this, this --
that supervisory board will have an opportunity, there is to make
amendments to this and that process could be adjusted.
The other thing is the feeling that other people in the county
shouldn't have to pay for a taxing authority's elections in Pelican
Bay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: All right. Well, I'll reserve any
comments until I've heard the last speaker.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'll just letting you know some of the
history of where that was, so next speaker, please.
MS. COOK: Good morning. My name is Erika Cook and I thank
you for the privilege of addressing you this morning about this
new ordinance.
On November 28th, 2000, the Collier County commission
passed Ordinance 2000-82 to change the government of Pelican
Bay.
This was speared through by a special interest group in
Pelican Bay without the general knowledge or ratification of the
residents of our community. This particular group are the -- the
property owners of Pelican Bay.
I am a member of this organization. I never received a notice
of this governance change or any notification of any meeting
regarding this whatsoever; however, after the fact, after this
ordinance was passed, they then sent a notice out inviting us to
come to The Registry to hear what this ordinance was all about.
That's after the fact.
Page 73
January 23, 2001
We, the concerned citizens of Pelican Bay do not approve or
accept this ordinance. We would like to have this ordinance
deferred to the next November regular election. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you.
MR. OLLIFF: Raymond O'Connor will be follow by your last
speaker, Lou Vlasho.
MR. O'CONNOR: Good morning. My name is Raymond
O'Connor and I'm the president of the Pelican Bay Property
Owners Association. We represent approximately 6,000
residents in Pelican Bay.
I often look at our organization as the complaint bureau of
Pelican Bay. Every issue that comes up, we get calls and
swamped with calls, and I can tell you on this issue of this
ordinance we have not had three calls protesting this ordinance.
We have had -- CHAIRMAN CARTER: Quiet. You've had your turn. Let him
speak, please.
MR. O'CONNOR: I have a policy and my board has a policy of
addressing every issue that comes before the board at each
subsequent board meeting and we have not had one issue
brought before our board relative to this ordinance or to the
election of the supervisors except after meetings I have had
many people come up to me and thank us for our efforts on
behalf of them to get this situation in Pelican Bay as regards
governance resolved once and for all.
You have heard suggestions by the speakers that perhaps this
is a prelude to incorporation. I cannot guarantee what the future
may hold for Pelican Bay because my term and the term of my
board, just like your terms, are finite. We have -- we can only
serve two successive terms and then we can no longer serve on
the board of the property owners so that I -- I can speak to the
current board and I can tell you that we feel that this is a
resolution of the governance problem within Pelican Bay once
and for all.
You've heard statistics or speakers say that they have never
heard of this issue, that they have never conceived of any kind of
change in the government being brought before them, but I can
tell you that there have been two prior surveys of the people of
Pelican Bay, the first being taken about six years ago when it
said 52 percent of the people in Pelican Bay at that time who
Page 74
January 23, 2001
responded to the survey were in favor of incorporation. About 35
percent said they were in favor of the status quo and the balance
were in favor of annexation to the City of Naples.
That effort was brought up to Tallahassee and died in
committee. We've had a subsequent effort where we sent out
questionnaire and with a return paid postage card of how many
people in Pelican Bay would like to vote on the future
governance of Pelican Bay.
We sent out those cards to our membership and we got back
over 2,000 cards where about six were opposed to a vote and the
majority of the 2,000 we got back were in favor of having a vote
in Pelican Bay as to how we should be governed in the future.
We have had numerous meetings. We have sent notices out.
We produce a newspaper called Straight Talk, which when we
have anything of any consequence to the community, we send it
to every member of the community, whether they are members of
the Pelican Bay Property Owners or not, and we did that on this
issue.
We have had public meetings. Every year we have given a
report on the governance committee as to where they are in
progress of what they're trying to do at that time.
You have heard the -- the list of five different proposals that
were given to our governance committee of things that some of
the people in Pelican Bay felt had to be improved.
And then he failed to show you that there was another list of
issues that people of Pelican Bay liked. That was the balance,
the things that they didn't like.
What we were trying to do as a governance committee and a
subcommittee of the governance committee, which consisted of
myself, the head of the MSTBU, the president of the President's
Council and the chairman of the Foundation were to address
those issues in the best manner that we could that would not
create division within Pelican Bay.
I can tell you that there are people there that you could -- you
could bring this to them every t5 minutes and they would say
they never heard of it. I don't how many times we could publish
it. I don't know how many times we could have meetings about
it and there would still be people who would say that they never
heard of it.
One of the speakers that were here before you told us that
Page 75
January 23, 2001
she was in Europe when we had our meetings, so, therefore, she
knew nothing about it.
Well, if you're in Europe, you know, that's not our problem. We
have a schedule of meetings that we try to provide the
information while the population is there.
This election is taken place off the regular schedule because
the way the ordinance was adopted, it calls for an election
within 180 days.
There is no reason why subsequent elections could not be put
on the regular election schedule and not held at various times
that were off the election schedule.
I think that can be accomplished simply by changing the
language that this one special election would take place now
and subsequent elections would take place on the regular
election schedule.
I don't think there's any problem with changing that language
in the ordinance if it's not there already.
And I thank you for your time and for listening to me.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Question, if I may, and I think this
would be directed towards our County Attorney.
Is there any way that there could be an exception made
where the elections could take place in November or isn't that
possible at this time?
MR. WEIGEL: Okay. Commissioner, the ordinance specifically
provides for the initial election to occur within 180 days of
adoption and does not provide for -- to use the term synchronized
election, future elections with other November elections. It
would require to achieve such an amendment to the ordinance as
it currently exists.
There is no problem or difficulty in drafting and creating an
ordinance amendment if that were the direction of the board of
county commissioners.
I had, of course, been in contact with this issue as well as
other related election issues with Jennifer Edwards, the
Supervisor of Elections and she, too, asks that at some point in
the future prior to subsequent elections that this commission
have before it to consider synchronizing the elections of the
Pelican Bay Services District with other elections that are held
county wide, and it would take it out of the special election
category and become as part of the regular election process.
Page 76
January 23, 2001
I had told her that typically the County Attorney doesn't make
a policy proposal such as this, but that I would communicate it
to the board, as I'm doing right now, and conceivably in the
normal context of things, arguably, the new Board of Supervisors
once elected and seated as a governing authority could consider
that because it affects them and Pelican Bay directly and make a
request to the board of county commissioners subsequent to that
election.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Weigel, is this a -- can you see
if this is a possibility this would be the first step of incorporation
of Pelican Bay?
MR. WEIGEL.' My answer is no.
Quite frankly, the issue has come forward in various agendas
and various aspects of government in the past. It would require
a special act of the legislature to provide for Pelican Bay, which
is immediately adjacent to City of Naples boundaries.
It would require a special act of the legislature to trump the
general act that exists state wide that requires a two-mile
separation between municipalities.
That has been brought forward with the legislative delegation
a few years ago and didn't go anywhere before the legislature
generally, but that's the kind of act that would be required, if not
others, to attempt to achieve that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Next speaker.
MR. OLLIFF: The next and last speaker is Lou Vlasho.
MR. VLASHO: Good morning, commissioners. I hadn't
expected to be here this morning, but, first, let me introduce
myself. My name is Lou Vlasho. I've been an 11-year full-time
resident of Pelican Bay.
I am currently president of the Pelican Bay Presidents
Association serving my forth term. We represent over 70
associations and over 90 percent of the Pelican Bay residents.
I also currently am -- I'm not very bright. I hold two seats. I'm
chairman of the MSTBU. And I've been involved with this
particular ordinance over two years.
I don't want to take my time but I feel it's necessary to go
through the meetings. We've -- I know that the -- personally know
that the property owners have had three general meetings. The
Presidents Council has one -- had one meeting. The Community
Page 77
January 23, 2001
Affairs Committee has had one meeting. The Mens Coffee has
had a meeting and the MSTBU board has held discussions at
least four or five of its meetings and you held one public hearing.
We have published in several documents. The property
owners has put out a couple of letters. They most recently put
out a general letter to all the owners, which I co-signed after you
adopted the ordinance.
The -- the detailed letter was also published in the Pelican
Bay Post, which is unfortunately a new instrument that just got
off the ground a couple months ago.
The comments that came up today, I guess, I -- I appreciate.
Yes, the MSTBU does do a good job. Is this an equitable way to
handle the situation? I think election over appointment is the
way.
I -- I've mentioned on several occasions how I got into the
seat that I'm in on the MSTBU and it wasn't very democratic and
then no one was involve except myself and one other person and
one of the commissioners.
We don't anticipate any dollar increase in expenditures, but
we can't speak for future boards of the MSTBU or this board of
supervisors.
As far as the election date, I think this County Attorney
handled that properly. If you want to make things happen, you
change them and you can be flexible. I think it's important that
we get elected this season and I don't really understand and I --
and maybe you've heard some reasons that I don't quite couldn't
pull out of the discussion, why delay?
Incorporation. I think Mr. O'Connor handled that. When I first
got involved in this over two years ago, and I had been involved
previously in the discussions, perhaps not as actively as some
other people, but incorporation has never been a point of
discussion. And we don't intend to go there.
I think we have said on the record, off the record, that this is
the end of the road. We see this as a long range solution to what
we thought was a need. This is an improvement in what we
have.
That doesn't reflect on all the people that have served on the
MSTBU in the past. They've done a good job. We just think that
by having more control and being more responsible and having at
Page 78
January 23, 200~
least 40 percent of our people in Pelican Bay elect the -- the
Board of Supervisors, you get more responsibility and more
control.
The gentleman said no one in his community was aware of it.
I don't know very many people in this community, but I know at
least one or two that have been in some of the meetings.
You know, after the information was disseminated, there was
much discussion in our meetings. People, this is Pel -- this is
Southwest Florida. You don't get a lot of people out to things,
you know.
In Pelican Bay most people say, if it's good, we don't come
out and we -- you know, what's that, silent majority? I think it's
there.
I personally have had one call since this information went out
and everyone has known over the years I've been involved. And
that person was one of the speakers today.
Some people always are thinking what's the hidden agenda,
we're trying to pull a fast one, an end run, they didn't know about
it. Well, all the discussions we've had had been publicized and
communication is a two-way street.
I know about things. I didn't know about this meeting until
last night. I did not know we were going to be on the agenda but
I'm here because this is important. And I'm a little surprised as
to what we're discussing here today.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions and we've had during the
course of our discussions a lot of people who come up and say
they don't like this. And that's what happens in -- when you
open-end discuss things.
I'd like to conclude by saying I encourage you to focus on the
ordinances before you, which is simply to set the date of the
election, not to rehash the whole discussion.
This is good for Pelican Bay. It's good for the Pelican Bay
residents. It's good for the county. 40 percent electing rather
than appointing is good. More control while we're still under
your control and being a part of the county, and it is not a step to
something else.
I recommend that you approve the ordinance before you.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'd like to ask just a question that has
come up is this concern about how much you could raise taxes
Page 79
January 23, 2001
or raise assessments or go to bonding and all of this.
What's different in the new ordinance from the old ordinance
that says you could do that without coming to the board of
county commissioners?
MR. VLASHO: Nothing that I'm aware of and I -- I happen to
think that people that are -- either have been appointed or
elected to those positions are only interested in the -- the good of
Pelican Bay.
Why would they do something that the residents wouldn't
want done? You know, the only time we get people out to a
meeting is when you're doing something that the word gets out.
And even then we get a small majority.
Let me take the opportunity to say if there is a special
interest group at work here, it is the president of the Property
Owners Association, the chairman of the Foundation, the
presidents of the Presidents Council and the chairman of the
MSTBU, a very, very small, select group who only serve the
residents of Pelican Bay because they're interest in what all of
the Pelican Bay residents want.
This is not a select group who has operated in a vacuum.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Other questions by any
commissioners?
Oh, we've got to switch here? (Brief recess.}
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay, we're ready to roll.
Questions, comments from the Commissioners?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I think I should make a
comment here. I've been a little instrumental in possibly stirring
up the dust on this one.
I see a Commissioner's job is to, in some ways, serve both
sides; to try to get the truth out, to try to feel your way through
it, if it's going to serve the majority of people.
I made myself available at several occasions to the people
that are objecting to this, even taking phone calls as late as t0
o'clock at night. At this point in time, I feel that the needs of
Pelican Bay are being met, but the petitioners still have some
redress, and I think they're aware of it. I'd like to mention the
fact that I believe they can still put candidates up. Have there
been candidates already selected?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: No, they haven't. You are right,
Page 80
January 23, 2001
Commissioner, they can put up candidates. They can go to the
taxing authority, they can voice whatever they need to voice.
They could have a group that would petition that taxing authority
for change.
They have a due process to follow like any of us.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And at that point in time, if
you'd like to carry it to the next step is right at this point in time,
I'm going to vote in favor of this particular ordinance, but I'll still
assist you and take you over to the election office, introduce you
to the process there. You can put out a nonbias straw poll to the
members of Pelican Bay. It's your right to be able to do this.
And if something comes up that's completely contrary to
everything we heard, I'm sure that I, for one, would be willing to
look at it, and I'm sure the fellow commissioners would, too.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, like you, Commissioner Coletta, I
have met with the people who disagreed. I have had them -- they
have met with me. I have had them meet with our county
attorney. I've tried to take into consideration everything that
they brought to me literally after the fact, after the ordinance
was in place.
And I hear what they've had to say, but I have worked with
all the other groups in the community, and I feel they do have
due process.
If they have any objections to this, they can go through, and
I have encouraged anyone in Pelican Bay. I've said, "If you want
to be a player, run for the supervisory board." And I have
encouraged people from all viewpoints to do that. I think they're
going to have a very healthy group of people running for it.
I have been promised by the groups in Pelican Bay that they
will have forums for the candidates to speak. That's why we
wanted to get this done in this special election, to get it off on
the right foot, where everyone there could be heard and
recognized on this issue.
And I really feel good that this is a special election, and they
can get in sync with the others in the future, but they have that
option. So in this process I have said over and over, I've tried to
take myself out of the loop because I know about every meeting.
Every group communicates with the commissioners.
So I don't -- maybe I'm unusual, but I've also asked other
people. Have you heard from the President's Council? Yes.
Page 81
January 23, 2001
Have you gone to the Foundation meetings? Well, I know that
they had a meeting, I know they have an MSDBU meeting.
It's always there, it's always open. We have our own
channel in Pelican Bay. All these meetings are announced. It's
always a problem to make sure everybody knows everything
about what's going on. I don't know the answer to that.
But I can't, in my mind, believe that this group hasn't
honestly, through every vehicle they had available, tried to reach
everybody who was willing to pay attention.
But I -- like one speaker said, you've got a silent majority. If
they're okay with it, they really don't call me. It's only once in a
while you get calls from people who are not okay with
something.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: One thing I did note,
Commissioner Carter, was that the people who were opposed to
it are true civic activists, and those are usually the people that
are very liable to end up and do some sort of public office. And I
would encourage them, strongly encourage them, to put their
name up for consideration with the people of Pelican Bay.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: And that's why I have worked
very closely with David in the last few days to make sure we get
all of these things -- and our Supervisor of Elections. We want
everybody to understand how you do the process, and we're
going to have that out there, and it's going to be communicated
every way that we know how and with any suggestions that
anybody wants.
I want to make sure that everybody knows who comes to
the elections, hear the people, and if you want to run, this is how
you do it. I pledge that to the community. I will do everything
possible to make sure that anybody who's got their eyes open
and willing to listen will know.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm glad to hear that because I've
also been approached by some of the citizens who were unhappy
with this. And this way, they have an opportunity to vote for
their people. If there is a great majority of them, they will vote
their people into office.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And I had felt that the other people
who represented the other side had been to you in the past,
probably didn't encourage them come back and visit you all
again. Maybe I should have done that. For that I would
Page 82
January 23, 2001
apologize, but I thought you had a pretty good perspective on
where they were. You heard them this morning.
Commissioner Henning, do you have any questions?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Just one comment, Mr. Carter, I
take your word that the people in Pelican Bay were informed to
the best of the ability on this issue, and also I just have a
problem with people not taking responsibility of not knowing
what's happening in their community.
It was advertised, this hearing. It's just like any law
changes, we need to keep -- we're responsible to keep up on
changes that affect us, whether it be a street sign or whatever.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, you know, as a former fire
commissioner, you probably heard these same discussions in
those meetings about issues along the same line, people coming
and saying, "1 didn't know."
We always hear that, and it is frustrating to us because we
hope that in every possible way, we have communicated. But I
will assure you I will do everything that I can, and if any group
has a question, they say, "I'm not getting information," I will
work with the leadership to make sure everybody knows how you
run for office, election date, where the forms are, and I will rely
on community leadership to go to extra efforts to get that out so
everyone knows. We will do everything humanly possible.
We have a motion, we have a second. All in favor signify by
saying aye.
Opposed by the same sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries four to zero. Thank
yOU.
Item #9A
COMPLAINT FILED WITH THE BOARD OF COLLIER COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS ALLEGING THAT THE MADEIRA PUD
ORDINANCE 2000-80 IS INCONSISTENT WITH COLLIER
COUNTY'S GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN (ELIZABETH NELSON,
PLAINTIFF VS. COLLIER COUNTY, DEFENDANT} - ORIGINAL
PASSAGE OF THE PUD REAFFIRMED
All right. We now are to the county attorney's report.
Page 83
January 23, 2001
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have before you
two items that -- separate, but equal, unrelated --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: May I interrupt to move that we
reaffirm our position on the Madeira PUD? That's really all that's
necessary, as I understand it, procedurally, unless somebody's
changed their mind.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And I would understand, Mr. Weigel,
that I would have to recuse myself from this vote and any
discussion on this, since I had done that in the past.
MR. WEIGEL: That is correct. And we're looking for two
votes because we have two, again, very similar, but distinctive --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So with regard to Item 9A, I
move that we reaffirm our original passage of the Madeira PUD
ordinance.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll second that motion.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
do we need four?
MR. WEIGEL: Yes, it will.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
say aye.
Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
Will three votes suffice on this or
All in favor of that motion, please
Motion passes three to zero.
Item #9B
COMPLAINT FILED WITH THE BOARD OF COLLIER COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS ALLEGING THAT THE MADEIRA PUD
ORDINANCE 2000-80 IS INCONSISTENT WITH COLLIER
COUNTY'S GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN (HENRY MURPHY,
PLAINTIFF VS. COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, DEFENDANT)-
ORIGINAL PASSAGE OF THE PUD REAFFIRMED
Go to item 9B.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Same motion then on item 9B.
All in favor please say aye.
Opposed?
Page 84
January 23, 2001
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That passes unanimously.
Item #10A
RESOLUTION 2001-31, REAPPOINTING ROBERTA DUSEK AND
CLIFFORD FLEGAL, JR. TO THE COLLIER COUNTY CODE
ENFORCEMENT BOARD - ADOPTED
And we go to the Code Enforcement Board membership
appointments. There are two applicants and several more --
sorry. There are two openings -- did I say that right -- and several
more applicants.
MS. FILSON: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm frankly not familiar with
these people and don't have a recommendation.
MS. FILSON: And both members whose terms are expiring
are requesting reappointment.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. So the two expiring, which
are Mr. Dusec (phonetic) and Mr. Legal (phonetic}, are requesting
reappointment.
Nevertheless, are there recommendations or nominations
from the Board members on the Code Enforcement Board?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll make a motion that we go
ahead and accept the two existing members to be reappointed to
the board, the Code Enforcement Board.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Any discussion?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The only comment I'd like to
make is the fact that I appreciate very much that the other
people have put in their resumes for this board position, and I
encourage them to keep applying because there are so many
boards out there that desperately need help.
These are some very qualified people that we're passing
over.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE.. In favor of experience.
All in favor of the motion, please say aye.
Opposed?
CHAIRMAN CARTER.. That passes four oh.
Page 85
January 23, 2001
Item #10B
DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE STAFF DIRECTION REGARDING THE
BEAUTIFICATION OVERLAY AT THE PROPOSED 1-75
INTERCHANGE ON GOLDEN GATE PARKWAY - STAFF TO BRING
BACK A RESOLUTION, CREATING AN AD HOC COMMITTEE
We are now to public comment on general topics.
MR. WEIGEL.' I believe you're on 10B.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh, I'm sorry, 10B. I don't have
any backup for it.
MR. WEIGEL: That's the 175 interchange item.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh, I'm so sorry. Thank you.
Now, we'll talk about it.
Mr. Henning, item 10B.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes, again, this -- what I
consider this Interchange should be a signature entrance
beautification overlay, 175 Interchange on Golden Gate Parkway,
and I hope the board would support creating an advisory board to
work with FDOT and our staff to make things happen and give
some input.
I know there's some input from this board about that we
should make this different than any other exit in Collier County,
not to have commercial in that area.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think what we call a green
interchange, and all of us at the MPO meeting know the
concerns. We had a citizen's group. We listened to everything.
I'm like you, let's have a broad-based group of people to make
their inputs to this. But we really want to make sure that we
have an overlay here that indeed establishes a green
interchange.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And, Mr. Chairman, since this is
the gateway to the City of Naples, I would think, and I would
encourage, a member of the City Council to be in on that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I would very much support that,
and what I was curious about is how many members we might --
you know, are we going to have a five-member, seven-member
committee?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I was thinking of seven
Page 86
January 23, 2001
members.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE.' Then I would hope that there
could be at least two, maybe three, representatives from the City
of Naples, whether they be council members or designees from
City Council.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We also have some concerned
citizens in the area, and it is the gateway to Golden Gate, also.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sure. That's why I was thinking
maybe four from Golden Gate and three from the City of Naples.
COMMISSIONER COI. ETTA: I think we may need a little bit
more of a blend, if I may say so because they're going to be going
through a lot more territory.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. So five and two?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA-' That might be better. But I
wouldn't say five from Golden Gate. I'd say two maybe from the
greater Naples area along the coastline, rather than the City of
Naples proper. Let's expand it just a little bit, so that we might
be able to pick up some more interested parties. Seven is a
great idea.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I would certainly support that.
I'd like to ask that two of the members be appointed by the City
of Naples City Council, from whatever jurisdiction they think is
appropriate.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: If that's a motion, I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Do you need a motion or just
staff's direction?
MR. WEIGEL: You're going to need to direct us to bring back
a resolution to create the committee. And my suggestion would
be that you create an ad hoc committee so that it's not an
ongoing committee since this is a specific project-oriented
committee, and we'll bring you back some recommended
membership criteria and things, and you can decide that when
you see the final resolution.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:: That's a good idea.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I agree.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Now, I guess we're to public
comments.
Page 87
January 23, 200t
Item #10C
BRUSH/DEBRIS COLLECTION IN GOLDEN GATE ESTATES - STAFF
TO BRING BACK AN EXEMPTION TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT
CODE
CHAIRMAN CARTER: No. We have item C, brush removal,
Golden Gate Estates. Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: As you're probably aware, we
are in a near crisis situation in the rural area of Collier County
and even some places here in the urban area where the last
couple of frosts have killed tremendous amounts of vegetation,
leaving us open to a fire season that will compare to nothing
we've seen in the past.
We have been blessed by a little bit of rain the last couple of
days, but that will soon wear off, and we'll return to the very dry
conditions. The water levels in the ground are at record lows.
We are in a very dangerous situation.
Since the last time we had anything that was even near this
magnitude, the population of the area that's going to be affected
by that has better than doubled.
The local fire departments have already expressed great
concern in the fact that there's no way that they can possibly
provide protection for all these homes in the event of a fire that
takes place with a 30 or 40-mile-an-hour wind that very often
accompanies cold fronts that move through the area. And when
this happens, we're going to lose homes.
What we would like to do is start an initiative on the part of
the citizens out there to be able to take the incentive to be able
to correct some of the deficiencies that are there, as far as the
dangers of the fires for their own dwellings, by removing the
brush around their houses.
What we're proposing is that they bundle it and put it at the
curb, which is already presently allowed by waste management
and the contract that we have. But this would go a step further,
in that we would allow them to place any number of bundles of
brush out there.
Waste Management can pick them up as expediently as they
can, but they may remain there for a couple of weeks, possibly
even a month. But the advantage is, we have the brush away
Page 88
January 23, 2001
from the sides of the houses, where it would propose a great
danger.
So, what I'm proposing to you is directions to create a public
awareness program regarding brush removal in the Estates and
to provide exemption during the dry season for any excess
horticultural masses collected, bundled, and left at curbside that
would exceed the allowable collection amounts.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Staff direction is what would be
requested at this point?
MR. WEIGEL: Probably would take a motion and board
direction on that because I'm going to have to bring back
something that's going to be an exemption or an exception to
your Land Development Code, and in terms of the waste left at
the curbside, that may be in excess of what's in the current
Waste Management collection contract.
But I will tell you that Waste Management has already
offered, off the record, to go ahead and "ramp up," and should we
put this program in place, do everything that they could to
enhance the pick up beyond what is the minimal that's in their
contract already.
But direction from the board on that would allow us to do a
public information campaign and bring back the necessary
amendments.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Of course, time is an important
element here. I would hate to see conditions change before the
next board meeting.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The Chair would entertain a motion
from you to do that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. I make that motion.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. Comments?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner Carter, just to let
everybody be aware, the fire departments have a mutual aid here
in Collier County, and also in the State of Florida. We do get a lot
of help from other departments in the area and with forestry,
also.
So they try to protect each and every home. It depends on
the degree of the fire, and I think what you're proposing today is
great for preventing some problems out there in Golden Gate
Estates. So I commend you for it.
Page 89
January 23, 2001
aye.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. All in favor signify by saying
Opposed by the same sign.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries. Thank you.
Item #1 lB
PUBLIC COMMENT - MR. KEN THOMPSON REGARDING VARIOUS
SUBJECTS
That moves us to public comments. Do we have any
speakers?
MR. OLLIFF: I have one, Mr. Chairman. Ken Thompson.
MR. THOMPSON: My name is Ken Thompson. I live at 2831
Beck Avenue. I come here to straighten out something today.
I'm getting blamed for everything, and I'm turning this person in,
I'm turning that person in.
All these people that are accusing me are turning them in
from Siebert down to Poplar. You know, at the time -- I've never
turned any of these people in. They even got me believing it.
I go see Ms. Arnold, I'll be damned, she says, well, right in
that area, they're thinking it. Well, I wish they would quit
thinking it. In 1998 they should have quit thinking when code
enforcement slapped the book down on us to rezone the
property.
Right away everybody jumped in, 300 feet away, it's none of
your business. We didn't have a thing to do with it. So if you're
out there listening -- they say in AA if you've hurt someone,
there's a word for it. In other words, apologize to you. And if I
haven't hurt you, then I wish you'd apologize to me.
But I'm going to tell you, if you people run around here, since
this thing has got started, don't never do no more work unless
you pull a permit. The law states you got to have a permit, since
you're blaming me. I want you to understand it works two ways.
I have to pull a permit -- you won't even believe what they
come see me about the other day. It rained a little bit, the water
run off the roof in the gutters, it run down the downspout. Here
comes code enforcement -- just before Christmas, I think it was --
and they told me to have a good Christmas. So that's the best
one they ever had yet. I'm telling you.
Page 90
January 23, 2001
But I kind of enjoy it. I think you ought to attend more
meetings, I kind of like it. And, Pam, if I ever caused -- making
amends -- that's what it was. And if I ever caused you any
problem, you ought to get out there really and help me out with
Mr. Bottner (phonetic} because if he's a landscaper, I'm Jesus
Christ.
And I'm nowhere near Jesus Christ.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: A landscraper.
MR. THOMPSON: Anything. I got -- the doctor's got me
going to now. I'm fixing to head to the operating table, and I
need to talk to Mr. Carter. Man, you look good. You look as good
as you do running the meeting.
But all these people have got me bad mouthed. They got
boats sitting in the middle of the road. Drive down the street, it's
the first thing you see, is a big boat.
So when they first started this cleanup, you couldn't have
nothing. My Lord, they turned around now and say you can have
this and you can have that, and you ought to see what we're
getting. It's terrible.
And I have had enough problems 10 years with the place
across the bridge. I called a lady, and I asked her, do they have
all enough permits to do what they're doing? No, they do not.
I'm guilty of that one. But if you -- I don't need you to put great
big platform out here and slap a band on it and drinking until I or
2 o'clock in the morning, keeping me up out of my bed because
I'm headed for some pretty bad surgery right here as soon as I
can turn 65.
They give me a Medicare card six months in advance. That
was a stupid thing to do. And I will use it. But then they'll stop
you. But you can get away long enough to make some money
somewhere to pay the bill when it comes. You have to learn how
to do little things, too.
I wish you would go out there and tell Mr. Bottner to put the
bushes in the ground, the trees in the ground, put the sprinklers
in the ground because it's all up out of the ground, outside of the
ground.
I've got pictures of where he tore the front of my property up
-- let me get it right -- my wife's property. It was sodded by
James Scarborough (phonetic}. Man comes out and tears it all
up, ripped my driveway right all to pieces. I talked to him, Mr.
Page 91
January 23, 2001
Peterson (phonetic), about it, and I told Mr. Bottner I talked to
Mr. Peterson. Mr. Bottner told me not to talk to Peterson, he
didn't have nothing to do with it.
If he doesn't have nothing to do with it, I would appreciate it
if you would come out there and tell me how much money that I
can spend on that, and I'll do it myself. I like a nice place.
I try hard to keep it that a way, so all you people out there
that I did in, I'm going to make amends to you. I'll put it in the
newspaper today that I did it.
I can't go get a blood test. I can't go into Albertson's. I
can't go anywhere. These people, you know, there he is. I done
nothing to Albertson's, I done nothing to Publix.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You will be in our prayers for you
surgery and your medical issues, too.
MR. THOMPSON: You know, you can't kill me with a whole --
you can't kill me with a half bullet. You got to have a whole
bullet, you know, something like that.
So the other day I was figuring I took the gun and shot
myself, it went through and killed a tree. Some how or another,
I'm going to live my life the way I want to live it.
So if you're going to build, don't break the law. And they
better listen, not around me because you're accusing me enough.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you very much.
MR. THOMPSON: I wish -- the three of you, you're real good
people. This gentleman here, I talked to him. This is another
one, and I hope you hold me to that.
Item #13A1
RESOLUTION 2001-32, RE PETITION CU-2000-11, JEFF
DAVIDSON, P.E., OF DAVIDSON ENGINEERING, INC.,
REPRESENTING BIG ISLAND EXCAVATING, REQUESTING
CONDITIONAL USE OF "1" OF THE "A-MHO" ZONING DISTRICT
FOR EARTHMINING FOR PROPERTY LOCATED 1/2 MILE SOUTH
OF IMMOKALEE ROAD AND SOUTH OF THE EXISTING LONGAN
LAKE EXCAVATION IN THE CORKSCREW COMMUNITY -
ADOPTED SUBJECT TO STIPULATIONS AS AMENDED
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That takes us to advertised public
hearings, and we're going to move to Board of Zoning Appeals
Page 92
January 23, 2001
because everything else has been continued under the area of
zoning amendments.
So we are now at Item 113, Board of Zoning Appeals,
advertised public hearings.
Anyone speaking to any of these issues will have to be
sworn in. It also requires that commissioners disclose all
information of ex parte on these issues.
So we're at Item No. 1, CU-2000-111.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Stand if you want to be sworn.
THEREUPON:
All those wishing to speak on behalf of this issue, being first
duly sworn, testified as follows:
MR. REISCHL: Good morning, Commissioners. Fred Reischl,
planning services. Good afternoon, excuse me.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Fred, I don't have disclosure, but
we need to provide that opportunity.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes, I went out to the site and
talked to Mr. Glenn Simpson (phonetic), the petitioner, and his
attorney.
Also received an E-mail from, I think it was Millie Ball.
That's correct? Opposed to the petition. She was opposed.
That's the only one.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have met with petitioner and his
attorney, and I have received the same E-mail.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I went out to the site, as well.
I wanted to see -- I got the E-mail first from Mrs. Ball, and then I
wanted to see what the place looked like, so I went out there,
and I met with one of the petitioners, asked him to show me
around. I wanted to see it in operation and how noisy it was
down the streets, or if it was noisy.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I also went out to the site. I
talked to the petitioner and received the same E-mail and also
called Mrs. Ball and talked to her personally. CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Fred?
MR. REISCHL: Fred Reischl, planning services. This is a
request to expand an existing additional use for earthmining. It's
located -- you can see the map of Collier County -- Immokalee
Road and Collier Boulevard, to give you some idea of the
location. And in more detail, Immokalee Road and two private
roads, Platt Road and Friendship Lane.
Page 93
January 23, 2001
The north, basically half of the blue, is the existing
permitted conditional use. They're here for the expansion, or
phase two, which would be the 102 acres, approximately, to the
south.
And this is within the rural agricultural area, and
earthmining is one of the few uses, conditional uses, that is not
prohibited by the final order of the Governor and Cabinet.
Some of the issues we looked at, one was traffic. There's
an existing ingress and egress on Immokalee Road, and there is
a farm access road -- to the existing, or to the current ag use --
that is subject of the petition today. The petitioner has agreed
not to use that for ingress or egress, and all access will be from
Immokalee Road.
Truck trips is an important part of an earthmining operation.
The ITE trip generation manual estimates between 80 and 100
truck trips per day. At the Planning Commission, testimony was
given that in reality for the existing pit there are approximately
250 truck trips per day, and the petitioner estimates that there
are approximately 125 trip ends per work day.
Noise is another consideration. There definitely is noise
from the excavation and the heavy machinery. Again, at the
Planning Commission, one of the main noise factors that was
cited was the backup beepers on the heavy equipment. A
question was brought up whether or not those could be disabled.
It was determined that it was an OSHA requirement, and those
have to be in effect for the safety of the workers.
Blasting is another question. The Planning Commission
recommended that there be no blasting. In Division 3.4 of the
Land Development Code, blasting is regulated for any kind of
blasting permit. A charge must be 350 feet away from the
nearest residence, and it must be monitored by a seismograph
and a county inspector.
The petitioner is going to speak more to that. He would
request that the no blasting requirement be removed from the
resolution.
And, again, the petitioner will elaborate on this more, but he
says he only expects to blast between two and three times.
Hours of operation was also discussed at the Planning
Commission. They suggested hours of operation Monday through
Friday, 7:00 a.m. until 5:00 p.m. and Saturday, 7:00 a.m. until
Page 94
January 23, 2001
noon.
The hours of operation in the code for the excavation permit
are slightly different from that. Those hours are 7:00 a.m. until
6:00 p.m. -- the planning commission said 5:00 -- Monday through
Saturday.
So again, a bigger difference would be on Saturday, where
the Planning Commission suggested to end at noon, and the Land
Development Code says they can go until 6:00 on Saturday, no
excavation on Sunday.
Another thing that the Planning Commission looked at was
the end of the operation. The Planning Commission put a
proposed sunset on that of five years, so that if they wanted to
extend the operation past five years, they would have to come
back to the Board of Zoning Appeals for an extension.
You received the letters of objection that I received in your
packet. And in addition, several neighbors spoke in opposition at
the Planning Commission meeting. Their concerns were mainly
based on traffic and on noise.
An Environmental Impact Statement was not required for
this petition because the site is developed as a citrus grove, so
there is no native impact on the site, so the conditional use
didn't go to the Environmental Advisory Council.
However, every excavation, commercial excavation, permit
goes to the Environmental Advisory Council, so they did hear the
excavation permit that is related to this use, and it was approved
by the EAC six to zero.
As I mention before, the Planning Commission did hear this
petition in November, and they voted unanimously, again six to
zero, for approval. However, as I stated before also, the
petitioner wishes to modify some of those conditions that the
Planning Commission imposed.
Staff recommends approval of the petition, and I'll be happy
to answer any planning questions, Stan Chrzanowski is here for
engineering questions, and Don Wolf (phonetic) for traffic
questions.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Mac'kie?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just to be trouble, I have a legal
question. I was chairman of the commission when we entered
into the settlement agreement with the Governor and Cabinet on
our Comp Plan, And I'm troubled by our assumption that this is --
Page 95
January 23, 2001
that the change of use from ag to excavation is permitted under
that settlement agreement.
I will tell you that was not in my mind as I stood before the
Governor and Cabinet and said what our expectation would be. I
thought that what we were committing to was that the current
operations could continue, a reasonable expansion of current
operations could happen. But surely it goes against the
settlement agreement if every piece of ag land decided to
become an excavation project.
So if that's the case, why isn't one excavation project
conversion against the settlement agreement? It doesn't feel
honest to me, having spoken to the Governor and Cabinet. I
don't think that's what we -- I don't think that's what we told
them we would do.
So I am way back from talking about whether you blast or
how many hours and all that because I don't think that's -- I
mean, you may tell me it's technically permitted under the
settlement agreement, but I will tell you I can't vote for it
because I know that's not what I told the Governor and Cabinet
was going to be this county's practice.
If I misspoke or misunderstood -- but I don't think so.
MR. MULHERE: For the record, Bob Mulhere, Planning
Director, and perhaps Marjorie may want to add to what I say,
but the discussions in front of the Governor and Cabinet started
out by listing permitted uses, but by the time the final order got
to the Governor and Cabinet, it expressly listed prohibited uses.
There is a list of prohibited uses. I think there's 23 items on
there, and there was actual discussion with DCA leading up to
the list and the creation of those prohibited uses, although there
was no discussion at the administration commission hearing as
to whether or not an excavation would be a prohibited use.
The final -- adopted final order -- and I understand your
comments, I'm just -- the final order set forth by the Governor and
Cabinet does not list an excavation as a prohibited use. It
expressly lists the other prohibited uses.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So if this is not -- if we're to
assume that this is not a prohibited use under the settlement
agreement, then every piece of ag land could convert to
excavation, and we would not be able to use the settlement
agreement as a prohibition of that?
Page 96
January 23, 2001
MR. MULHERE: Correct. But to do that, they would have to
go through the same process.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah, but boy, this is not the
right thing to do.
MR. WEIGEL.' May I address that?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE.' It's up to the Chair.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Let me ask, any other questions of
staff?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, and maybe Mr. Weigel, too
-- I wonder if -- or Ms. Student -- if they agree with that
assessment.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And, Mr. Cuyler, I'll let you get there in
a moment, but let us hear from our legal counsel from their
perspective.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I apologize. I didn't ask you
this question ahead of time, but as I'm sitting here, first I'm
thinking why not -- there should be an environmental impact
statement here because there is an environmental impact, but
that's a reg we can talk about. If our law doesn't require it, it
should. That's something we ought to change, but --
You mean we can -- this isn't prohibited? We said we would
stop everything.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The EAC said it was okay to do it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I am talking about the Governor
and Cabinet.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I understand your concerns, and
what I'm hearing is it's not excluded. And I also understand your
concerns that any piece of ag land, based on what I'm hearing
here, wearing my judicial hat, would qualify to come forward and
go through due process.
MR. OLLIFF: This is a conditional use; it is not a prohibited
use. And I guess that's what the difference is. Not only that we
have other things under conditional uses that is allowed as long
as it comes before the board.
MR. CUYLER: Let me mention a couple of things, if I could.
First of all, the purpose of --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: For the record, please?
MR. CUYLER: Ken Cuyler, Goodlette, Coleman, and
Johnson, representing the petitioner, Big Island.
I was part of that process. I spoke to the Governor and
Page 97
January 23, 2001
Cabinet on that process, and I'm familiar with it.
A large part of the order dealt with urban sprawl, movement
of urban facilities to rural areas, development of rural areas.
You're not talking about any of those things with regard to an
excavation.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It was also talking about
preservation of agriculture. Preservation of farmlands was also a
real --
MR. CUYLER: Well, that may be a general intent, but that
doesn't mean you never change a hundred acre orange grove to
another use. You have to use your reason and your planning
skills.
I think the first thing we need to -- or the first thing I would
very strongly point out is, there's a big difference between taking
a look at the criteria under a conditional use and saying it's not
permitted at all.
It is permitted. It was not prohibited by the Governor's
order. It is an allowed use. We'll talk more when we get into it.
I don't know if the staff has anything else to say, but, you
know, if you want your beach sand trucked in from out of the
county, you know, that's a policy choice you want to make.
If you have the ability to have excavations in your county so
that you have quality beach sand in the county, and your truck
traffic is coming from within the county, not going all the way
across the county, I mean, those are the types of policy
decisions you need to take a look at.
But it clearly was not prohibited by the Governor's order. As
a matter of fact, it's one of the few things that are allowed, and I
would think that individual owners who do have one of the
extremely few permitted items under the Governor's order would
want to pursue those items and not be in the moratorium with all
groups of -- and all of the categories of uses that don't have any
right to come in and even ask for anything.
And with regard to a conditional use, when you say every
piece of property that's agricultural can go to excavation, that's
not correct. You're looking at a conditional use.
The definition of a conditional use is, "a use that's generally
allowed within an area." But you are allowed to look at numbers,
and you're allowed to look at all the other criteria. But numbers
of uses are one of the things you look at.
Page 98
January 23, 2001
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: They could only all ask, and they
could only all request the use, and we could eventually say,
enough's enough.
MR. CUYI. ER: Correct. I would expect you to say that. But
if you find the proper location, the proper use, the proper
materials, which we will get to in a moment, that are coming out
of this.
One of the lower uses, as opposed to a fill pit for fill
materials and hundreds of trucks, 67 trucks, I think those were
all things that would be desirable by the county. You would want
to take advantage of the fact that you have the ability to take a
look at this and approve it. There's a lot of things you can't take
a look at and approve in the rural area because of the Governor's
order.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I ask the staff another
question. Just came back to the concept of whether or not -- let
me just ask the question.
When the EAC looked at this excavation permit, does their
approval mean that they see no negative effects of this
excavation to the restoration proposed in the area, or otherwise?
What did they look at?
MR. REISCHL: Not necessarily no effect, but they will be
ameliorated or minimized.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So what do they look at in an
excavation application if they don't have an ElS? How do they
measure the environmental impact of the excavation?
MR. OLLIFF: They are basing it on the Excavation Ordinance
Section of the Land Development Code. So they didn't have to go
by the criteria in the Environmental Impact Statement Section of
the code, but based on -- and I included in your packet the
Excavation Ordinance so you could see those.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But they are not environmental
criteria?
MR. MULHERE: Well, with the -- I'm sorry, for the record,
Bob Mulhere. I just wanted to add that -- I'm not sure it's clear as
to why the rationale for not having an ElS is understood. The
rationale was that this was a cleared farm field. If it had native
vegetation or habitat or species concerns, there would have
been an ElS.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But, Bob, this is a place where I
Page 99
January 23, 2001
think we have made mistakes in the past is, we look at it, if it's a
new farm field, it has no environmental significance, but it may
be really important for restoration. And I have no idea, I'm
asking.
MR. MULHERE: I think that's very true, but we don't have
those standards developed. That is partly what we're looking for
through this process.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So my question is, did the EAC
look at whether or not this was an important piece of land
potentially for restoration? What -- do they just look at -- I'm just
worried that, you know, that this would go against the intention
of the Governor's order, if this were a piece land that by its
excavation would be more complicated to be included in a NRPA
in the future.
I just have no idea if there are environmental impacts to this
proposal, and I look to EAC for that. And I'm trying to find out if
they looked at it from that perspective.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Stan Chrzanowski, Development
Services. I was at that EAC meeting. One of the EAC members
is Ed Carlson, who is the manager of the Corkscrew Swamp
Sanctuary, which is just north of here.
They did not mention at all obtaining this land for
restoration.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So if Ed didn't raise it as an
environmental concern, then I should probably relax about it. I
mean, he's the guy who would raise it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's all farm field right now; isn't
it?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes, but it might need to be, but
we've got to change our mind-set about because it's a new piece
of land, worthless, environmentally worthless, right now, that it
might not later be important for restoration of a watershed. I
mean, it might need to be a big hole in the ground to help with
the watershed or something --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I think you're heading in the
right direction on some points there. We do need to have a
control. What's happening, we haven't in the past. But one of
the things in here, if you're looking for a reason to reconsider
this, I don't know if we can go back to the Governor's order,
that's way overstepping bounds.
Page 100
January 23, 2001
But policy 5.4 requires new land use to be compatible with
the surrounding area. How in the devil can you take an orange
grove and change it to an open pit and say it's compatible? I
don't see it. I'm kind of lost on that.
But my main concern is not really the pit and the -- well, the
amount of fill and everything that's coming out. I do have
environmental concerns, but I'm really concerned about the
impact on the neighbors,and just because it's a rural area with a
limited number of people, I think sometimes we've had a
tendency in the past to ignore the concerns.
I want to hear the whole thing from beginning to end. I want
to listen to the residents who are going to be bordering this
particular street before I make a decision.
And I read the letter, and it seemed like they were willing to
have this continue, but with certain restrictions in place to
protect their own interests. I'm for letting the process go
forward and hearing all sides on it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just felt --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think we need to hear from the
petitioner, that person, hear from the registered speakers, and
then I think you'll have the full range of input, Commissioner, for
you to make a decision.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you.
MR. REISCHL: If I could just clarify Commissioner Mac'kie's
statement. This is not the first excavation that's been before
you since June of '99, and I believe it was the last meeting Susan
Murray presented one in the vicinity of Krehling on the East Trail.
That was also in rural ag. There was a large one farther east
from this that was --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But those were expansions of
current excavation permits, not a conversion of land of one use
to another.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: This is an expansion.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right behind it. I wanted to see,
too, if we were coming into a new virgin area and just impacting
the neighbors, and what I found when I drove back there was,
there was already a pit there.
They were already excavating, and the trucks were
operating, by the way, so I went -- I drove back further, and then I
Page 101
January 23, 2001
wanted to drive onto the neighbors' property to see what it
sounded like, and I asked the man who was driving me around,
now roll down your windows, I want to hear.
Then I made him turn his engine off so I could hear what the
neighbors were hearing, and I was sitting right out in front of
them. Actually, I couldn't hear anything.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' Well, that's because it's still
quite removed from the property. We're talking about taking it
within quite a distance --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: What you're doing is extending it
back, you mean?
I was right across from the trucks, Jim. I mean, I didn't go
all the way back. I looked out the car window, and I was looking
at the trucks who were shoveling the dirt.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It might also be the fact that
you do live in the city and because of the amount of traffic, it's a
sound that you have grown used to. People who live out in the
rural area, any kind of intrusion upon their space --
CHAIRMAN CARTER:: Put a New Yorker out there, they
wouldn't hear anything.
Can we hear from petitioner?
MR. WEIGEL: I'm going to encourage you to move it along.
You've got eight speakers on this item and 22 registered
speakers on 13A and 3 and 4.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes, we need to move. Thank you.
Mr. Cuyler?
MR. CUYLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, for the
record, Ken Cuyler with Goodlette, Coleman and Johnson,
representing Big Island Excavating.
With me, I have Mr. Glenn Simpson, one of the owners; Mr.
Jeff Davidson, who is the engineer on the project. I snagged Jon
Staiger, who was not scheduled to speak for us, but will, and Bill
McDaniel is in the room somewhere, too. He's another one of the
owners.
As staff indicated, this is a conditional use approval for
excavation earthmining, immediately adjacent to an existing
excavation. It is an expansion of an existing excavation.
The location is in the rural area. We just had a short
discussion on that. The rural area is the only place these can be.
These types of excavations provide a product, as you all know,
Page 102
January 23, 2001
that is necessary for the county and for certain aspects of
development, and which we'll talk about in a little more detail in
a few minutes, which is particularly relevant to county
operations and government operations.
The operation both on the existing property and the
proposed addition is for the purpose of obtaining specialty
materials. This is not a standard fill operation, where there's
only going to be fill dirt coming out of it. The specialty materials
are beach sand and shell.
And I promised Mr. Staiger, so that he could get out of here
fairly quickly, that I would bring him up as quickly as I could. So
I'm going to stop my presentation for just a second and let Mr.
Staiger step up here.
I want him to quickly tell you -- he's been out to the site as
well -- what we're looking at in terms of materials on this site,
and he'll only take a few minutes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd like to hear that.
MR. STAIGER: For the record, again, Jon Staiger, Natural
Resources Manager, City of Naples. This excavation produces
beach sand, which fits inside of that curve you all looked at an
hour or so ago.
Big Island would have bid on the contract that you just
awarded to E.R. Jahna, had they the production capacity to
produce 50,000 cubic yards of sand in the next couple of months.
They do not have that production capacity at this time, but
the material that they can produce is compatible with the
Vanderbilt, Park Shore, Naples, and Marco beaches. It's a very
fine grade beach sand, and a significantly shorter haul distance
from Big Island, compared to where we will be hauling from
Glades County.
In the future, I presume that they will be a competitor in
next year's round of bidding for this annual incremental beach
management volume, but they have the ability to produce the
sand that we need and that we have been trying to find for the
last several years.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We had -- this was on my desk
this week. I didn't exactly understand where it came from, but
it's sugar sand.
MR. STAIGER: It's a good material, and I think the ability for
them to mine it in volume is beneficial to the entire county beach
Page 103
January 23, 2001
restoration project.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Jori, can I ask a question, put
you on the spot because you're here. I haven't seen the site. Is
this something that gets your environmental radar up?
MR. STAIGER.' No, not at all. It's -- what's there now is
essentially a flat area with some processing equipment on it and
a large pit adjacent to it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So I may have neighborhood
concerns, but environmentally I can relax?
MR. STAIGER.' Right. Behind it is the citrus grove, which
would be the expansion area. There's nothing I saw out there
that would concern me. You know, if this was a cypress forest,
yes, but it is not.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:: Thank you, Jon.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you very much.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Thank you, Mr. Staiger. There's two
points that come from those representations, even aside from
the quality of the sand, but that is that truck trips are going to be
traveled less distance on county roads. And your out-of-county
trucks pay nothing to the county in terms of any maintenance
costs or maintenance fees for roads. These trucks will because
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Plus they buy gas while they're
here.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Plus they buy gas while they're here.
That's correct. And it also provides an in-county beach sand
source,
Just in terms of the economy, you may be one of those
people who says, fine, if I have to buy it from Charlotte County,
I'll buy it, but if we have a local owner with a quality of sand just
as good, and he can supply it just as inexpensively -- and
hopefully they will be able to because their travel costs and their
transportation costs will be less because they're local -- in terms
of the environmental, so we can go ahead and get that out of the
way, I mean, I love orange trees, but, you know, that's not an
environmentally sensitive site.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: If you're doing this for me, I'm
already taken care of on the environment.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Plus, they're moving the trees,
Page 104
January 23, 2001
anyhow.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Let me just point out one other thing
that's not just for you, Commissioner Mac'kie, although I'm glad
you are okay with that, and that is that we did go to the EAC.
They did look at environmental issues. One of the other things
they looked at was the water situation.
I think what you're probably going to hear -- one of the
things you're going to hear today from the residents is, this is
affecting our wells. It was Mr. Carlson from Corkscrew, as a
matter of fact, who not only made the motion to approve the
project, but also pointed out -- and it's funny how you see things
on the agenda sometimes that are relevant to your petition, but
as Commissioner Coletta said, this is the driest season we've
had in a decade or 12 years.
They may be having problems with their wells, but the
problems are not attributable to the excavation. When the water
table goes down -- and I'm going to have Mr. Simpson explain this
a little bit, but certain water particles, tannins and such, become
more concentrated because the water volume becomes less.
But he's an expert in hydrology, and I am not, so I'm going to let
him talk about that.
We wish we didn't have any neighbors. If you can go find me
a couple hundred acres in Collier County nowadays that doesn't
have any neighbors, then I'd like to look at it. All things being
equal, we wish we didn't have any neighbors. But we do have
neighbors. We have very few neighbors, but I don't want to
downplay the importance of any individual or where they live.
I am going to ask staff to put this on your visualizer. I'm just
going to refer to it. You will see that is a picture -- in the lower
right corner is the existing excavation, and to the left is the
orange grove that will be the new excavation.
The residents that may speak today, you'll see, are along
there. Those are five-acre tracts. You're dealing with the
agricultural area, so it's one unit per five acres. We have five
mobile homes with 400 feet of property line, there are other
residents that are further away than that, and when they come
up, they may want to point out where they live.
We are not ignoring the neighbors. We are going to put a
10-foot berm in adjacent to those neighbors. We're also going to
put an infiltration trench in for purposes of building a water block
Page 105
January 23, 200t
between the excavation and the neighbors to make sure we don't
have any concerns about wells. Again, I'm going to have Mr.
Simpson go through that, briefly.
We have -- at one time we had a suggestion to muffle the
motors that we use to discharge water. We have done that. We
are obviously cognizant of the neighbors. We have met with
them. We have done our best to try to allay any concerns that
they have, and I would like to reserve some time to address
anything that they do say.
Another item, in terms of the dry conditions, we have
installed and allowed the Corkscrew Fire Department to install a
fire well on our property. It's the only one in the area. It's where
they can fill up in the event of fires. There's nothing else like it
that we know of in the area. Provides a safety buffer for them, in
the event we do start having some of these wildfires.
I want to talk real quickly about the blasting. I think there
was a miscommunication that you try to avoid in these hearings,
but first of all, when we're talking about blasting, we're talking
about one day every three months or so. So we're not talking
about -- when I think of blasting, I think the hills of Virginia
blowing off into the sky with massive explosions, but we're
talking about inground charges that will probably be one day
every three months.
So, it's regulated by the explosives ordinance. There are
seismographs, I understand, on site, a county representative on
site. There's certain distance requirements within which you
cannot go with regard to a residence. It's a very controlled
process.
It really -- at Planning Commission -- I don't want to speak
for the Planning Commission, I wasn't there, but I did watch the
video tape. I don't think -- my best guess is if staff had
recommended approval, it would not have been a big issue. It
did not get discussed during the discussion, it came up after the
public hearing was closed.
So we would request that we, in accordance with the
ordinance, be allowed to do some very limiting blasting, and we
understand that you'll want to condition that to certain time
periods.
I am not going to try to get into the infiltration trench, it's
kind of technical. I'm going to have Mr. Simpson discuss that.
Page 106
January 23, 2001
Again, we're dealing -- in terms of truck traffic, the first year
was approximately 62 to 70 loads, something right in there. And
that figure you heard of 120 or so, that's a trip both ways. That's
a start trip and a back trip, so it's not 120 trucks; 60 trucks times
2 is 120 that you've heard.
At this point, I'm going to have Mr. Simpson step up -- I know
we don't want to run you too late today -- and see if he can
address any questions you have, and then pointedly talk about
the infiltration trench and exactly what that's supposed to do.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Respectfully, it sounds to me like
the questions are -- I mean, do board members have
water-related questions, or do you have neighborhood-related
questions?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Neighborhood.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Neighborhood-related questions.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I don't think you need to
convince us on that. Who do you have to talk about -- can you
talk about -- you did. You talked about the berm, you talked
about some muffles -- muffling.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Just a couple other quick comments,
and then we'd like to, I'm not sure what, other than having the
berm there for noise purposes and the muffler for noise purposes
and the fact that we don't have a densely -- dense subdivision
next to us.
We understand there are people there. We do have to
address it, but these are large tracts, and they're not right on the
edge. We may have to listen to them in order to address those
issues.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Before you go, just one
question. Have you had meetings with the neighbors, where you
brought them all together several times and addressed their
concerns?
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Yes. And Mr. Simpson will discuss
that.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And on that same note, they were
mentioning in some of their letters in our packet that they
wanted to have the dust area kept down, so you would water. Is
that something you've agreed upon?
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: I'll have Mr. Simpson address that, and
I would only ask you in terms of these discussions to divide the
Page 107
January 23, 2001
effects that we have versus effects that other parties may have
in other areas.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you. We will address the
neighborhood questions.
MR. SIMPSON: I will address that very quickly, and then if
more detail's needed, we will go through that or maybe after the
others speak, if there's more explanation --
We did have a meeting with the neighbors. We also talked
with them several times individually, but the biggest one, the
neighbors did come together. It seems like the issues are -- that
they came up with are basically access and traffic because we
do have legal access other than our main entrance to this
property.
But we have absolutely no intention, we have no permitted
use or permitted uses using the turn lanes and going out right
directly onto the main road without using any of the rural roads.
There's no advantage to us.
It would actually be a disadvantage to use any of the rural
roads, so the first issue of traffic and where it's going to go, all of
the traffic will go through the main roads.
Secondly, it has to because of the other protection
measures that we're going to take. The infiltration trench is
basically on the perimeter of the property, a ditch where the
water goes in to help recharge the aquifer round.
The dirt that's excavated from that is piled beside it and will
have a 10 to 15-foot -- it will vary in height -- but a minimum of
10-foot high berm resulting from that material which we'll use.
And we'll plant it and use it for noise control, which is one item
that -- one issue that forms the other is it helps prevent blowing
materials, the sands and the dust, when it's blowing. The grass
growing on that does a good job of catching it, so it doesn't blow
like it's blowing across clear ground.
And it has kind of a barrier that will build up, so that really
helps some with the noise. We've already gone in and put
mufflers on all the power units that we have.
The next issue -- that handles the water issue and some of
the noise and dust issues. The fourth item was the dust itself.
We will run a water truck twice a day. The material that we have
isn't like most of the rock roads. It's a very low dust material,
basically because of the high silica content, the sand that's in
Page 108
January 23, 2001
our material.
It helps it be a very low dust road in the first place, but we
will be running the water trucks, so that should suppress the
dust in all the traffic areas.
So those are the additional items since we began that we
are proposing to do.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And you met with neighbors, and
maybe you can help me. The people who are adjacent closest to
your orchard, it looks like there's a building up here and some
other -- whatever it is -- scattered across that side. Have they
continued to object to your operation? Kind of this corner house
up here?
MR. SIMPSON: There are five houses through there. Okay?
That person objected at the very first meeting, but we haven't
had any further objections, and I will -- is he here? Well, we
haven't heard anything from him.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We will take you in public speakers,
sir, thank you. We're just asking the petitioner.
MR. SIMPSON: The one just up and to the left of that one,
right here, I believe he's here to speak. He was at our meeting. I
thought we had met his concerns. We'll find out, I guess, when
he speaks. The house to the lower right, we haven't heard any
objections at all from them, and there's one to the north of that
that we haven't heard.
The house back there, further up and to the right is the
Balls, and they're here -- further up than that, I believe, actually
even --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Let's let these people speak for
themselves. You know, It troubles me to have the applicant
telling us, you know--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I just wanted to know where they
were located.
MR. SIMPSON." I agree. The one thing that we haven't
discussed, and I think it"s a very important part of this project as
the concern has been expressed about what's the end of this
project? What's it going to do, how's it going to fit?
On the eastern boundary of this project is the terminus of
the Golden Gate main canal. We are on the highest location
between the shoreline and Immokalee. We're on the peak--
we"re on the watershed break that goes between the Corkscrew
Page 109
January 23, 2001
slough, I mean, the Camp Keais strand.
This is the highest place out there and the best place to
store water. What -- we are in discussions right now with the
Water Management District, where our intentions are to put a
weir -- we're going to construct a weir in the Golden Gate canal
and provide a backpump to pump water from the downstream,
back up into this area.
We'll have a lake, approximately 200 acres, which will do
two things. One, it will help increase the storage in that area. It
will increase the aquifer recharge because having more water
stacked up higher than the water table will have a tremendous
benefit in recharging the aquifers.
It will also help alleviate -- there's an area to the east of us
that is estates. There's maybe three houses in that whole
estates area, but what it will do is it will provide an accumulator
so that when we have the rain events, all the water doesn't have
to be carried away through the canal. It actually can flow into
the lake, and that same volume of water over that very large
area, the water only builds up a very small amount.
So it will help improve the areas that do flow into there, it
will help improve their flood protection. It will also help improve
the flood protection downstream because we do have a lot of
freeboard in that area. They can take the top off the storm
event, pump it into there, so that the downstream areas, or the
coastal areas, water can run off earlier, and then --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, you're holding back the
aquifer.
MR. SIMPSON: We're holding back the water from the top,
instead of having that water rush down at the same time and
raise the elevation of the canals, causing them to overflow.
There's a lot of real benefits from this project when we get done.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: When might that be, Glenn?
MR. SIMPSON: Well, this project isn't a fill pit. To install the
weir and tie it all together, we're going to start pursuing that as
soon as we get this permit and get into operation, then we have
the full 200 acres to work with.
We don't have to wait until the project's complete in order to
do that. So we're going to start pursuing -- in fact, we're already
talking with them -- we're going to start pursuing that aspect of it
in the very near future.
Page 110
January 23, 2001
The limit will be to hold -- to use the full capacity of it while
we're still excavating. The capacity will be available for
improvement. It will be better than it is now, will be significantly
better.
But as we go through and work through the cells, we do it in
small segments, relatively small segments, and those segments
would have to be protected against the other areas, so there
would be some partial benefit immediately.
The other aspect of your question relates to the amount and
time frame of the beach sand. The whole purpose of this
project's not a fill pit. It's really to produce this specialty
materials, and the beach sand is the majority of the product that
we have. Depending on the demand and where it goes will
determine, really, the longevity of the project itself.
It could be 10 years, it could be 20 years, it could be 30
years.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But even during that time,
portions of the excavated area could be used for this backup?
MR. SIMPSON: Yes, and will be.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Glenn, I have a couple
questions. At the present rate, if you didn't expand, when will
you run out of usable materials where you are now?
MR. SIMPSON: If we don't get this permit, we're basically,
we're basically out.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The other question was, at this
point in time, when you said you weren't able to quote on the
beach sand -- or did you quote on it?
MR. SIMPSON: I had the proposal filled out, and because of
the delay in timing of being able to get started, I did a quick
calculation to see, make sure we could produce it, and it was too
tight a time frame. There was a good chance we may not have
been able to meet the volume, so I instead declined.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The volume would have been a
direct result of the lack of capability of machinery or of raw
materials?
MR. SIMPSON: Oh, no, strictly machinery.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Machinery.
MR. SIMPSON: Right. Because we have to get -- you know,
it's a three-quarter of a million dollar investment for that one
particular item, and I needed to get it up and running. I also
Page 111
January 23, 2001
needed to have enough space that I wasn't going to default.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Here's the big question, Glenn.
When this thing's all done five years from now, ten years from
now, you use up all the materials that are there, and you have
this great big lake, what are you going to do with it?
MR. SIMPSON: Right now my partners and I plan to put our
own cabins on it and do a lot of fishing.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Would you ever consider maybe
a community park? Doesn't hurt to put the squeeze on him, does
it?
MR. SIMPSON: Well, I think I can safely say that that's one
the options we haven't considered to this time.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You think maybe we might be
able to talk about it a little bit? There's going to be a great need
in that area, and I know my feelings about what you're doing
would change quite a bit from this direction.
I'd still want certain considerations for residents, but I think
the residents' needs would be greatly enhanced if they knew that
seven years from some particular date in time, they were going
to have, basically, lakefront property, which would be a
community park.
MR. SIMPSON: Well, you know, as I said, it's something that
my partners and I haven't discussed at this time, but I don't see
any reason why we couldn't sit down and talk about it and see if
there's some feasible way to work to where the -- we would have
access and some benefit to the neighbors directly.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Now we're talking the right
language. I think that --
MR. SIMPSON: I think--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What's going to be left when it's
over? Are the neighbors going to be looking out at a 12 to
15-foot berm for the rest of their God-given lives, or will the berm
be removed, and they're going to have a beautiful lake with all
kind of shrubberies around it, access to the lake for their use and
also the public's access, which is something that this county has
sorely failed to provide in the past, is public access.
This would meet a great many needs. Just keep your minds
open, and I appreciate the fact -- sorry to drop it on you like this.
I really am. No, I'm not. But in any case, let's keep open minds
on this as we go through the process.
Page 112
January 23, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner, I can really totally
empathize where you are, but I'm going to ask legal counsel to
comment on this because we may be outside of a realm of which
we can consider something at a given time.
So, Marjorie, you're in the room. I really need some input
from legal counsel on our boundaries in these discussions.
MS. STUDENT: I was conferring with Mr. Weigel. Could you
repeat the entire question, please?
MR. SIMPSON: Why don't you let me save you some trouble.
I'm not going to answer the legal question. We're open to
discussions. I mean, I'll let Marjorie and David answer your legal
questions, but we're still open to any discussions.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Fine, and I appreciate it, and I really
value Commissioner Coletta's initiative on this. I just want to
make sure we don't step outside of our boundaries.
MS. STUDENT: Just as a zoning matter, whenever anything
is exacted from a petitioner, there must be a reasonable
relationship between that exaction and the impacts of the
development, and this is because we have several Supreme
Court cases on the issue that give us this guidance.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Would it mean anything if it was
their initiative?
MS. STUDENT: If it were the petitioners' initiative, I
certainly think that that would be a better position.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I withdraw my question
and leave it up to the petitioner to act in his own accord.
How did I do, David?
MR. WEIGEL.' I like that.
MR. SIMPSON: Commissioner Coletta, would you mind
sitting down and talking with us about the possibility in the
future --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' I would love to. And the
residents at just about the same time.
MR. SIMPSON: That would be good. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have a question I'm going to ask, and
I may ask this more regular of all petitioners. You need to come
back up here while I ask this question, please.
Have you ever been approached by a neighbor who said they
would go along with your project if you provided them (a)
employment, or did improvements on their property?
Page 113
January 23, 2001
MR. SIMPSON: Yes, sir, we have.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I won't take it any further, but I
appreciate that. Thank you.
We have speakers? We need to go there.
MR. OLLIFF: Yes, sir. We have plenty of speakers. The first
speaker is Mac McKay, followed by June Grogloth.
Mac McKay is the first speaker.
MR. OLLIFF: Take your time, sir.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Take your time, and we just need to
get the next person on the on-deck, sir.
MR. MCKAY: It's not the soil of the county, every type, every
change in the soil of this county is typed up. You can get that
record from the University of Florida.
And you are telling me now that the only type of places that
you can get this soil that you're mining comes from that hole?
The main type of soil that comes from this county is the
Immokalee fine sand, and I'd seriously doubt that that's the only
place that you can get Immokalee fine sand or which is mainly
your beach sand, washed. They have to wash that sand, or they
wouldn't have beach sand. You've got a white substrata down
there, but not like that, for the first thing.
The second thing is, you're talking about your drift and
environmental stuff. This soil or drift of stuff is alkaline. I have
horses. Every horse I got has got bleeding eyes on account of
this lime going into -- all over the place.
When the wind comes up, I can't see the highway from
where I sit. I can't even see their operation, providing the wind
comes from the north, northeast, south, or southeast.
And I think -- you was talking about a berm. How high a
berm? How big a berm? What's going to be on the top of the
berm? You going to buy Bermuda grass that grows that high
(indicating}? They going to have tall grass, crab grass or rye
grass or something to that effect? You just -- lot of options.
You say, well, I saw two semis going out of there loaded
with dirt this morning, which was Sunday. All those people were
stealing. You mean to tell me you got an operation this size that
you're talking about, and they let two trucks go in and steal dirt?
These were semitrucks full of dirt.
I don't understand that. If the dirt's this valuable, if that's
the only place they can find it, why don't they have a guard there,
Page 114
January 23, 2001
a gate?
Lot of these things being said are just said, they're not
written down, they're not -- and I think they should be confirmed
in some manner.
That's my basic thing. If you build a pit like this, you have to
have drilling. You don't just go out there and start with a shovel
and dig up a bunch of dirt. You drill the soil. You know what's
there, you know where it is, how thick it is, and it seems to me
that this program is going along. They start at one program and
then go to another one, they go to another one. It started out
probably a surface dig, and it's getting a little deeper and a little
deeper.
And I just can't feature this type of thing going with people
not being notified. I wasn't notified of this meeting here, and I
live right across the ditch in front. Some other people weren't
notified. That's, I think, a very insensitive thing.
About all I have to say. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir.
MR. OLLIFF: Next speaker is June Grogloth, followed by
Mike Ball.
MS. GROGLOTH: I am June Grogloth, and I live on the
corner of Friendship Lane and Immokalee Road. I'm adjoining
right next to the pit that's there now, and I have had a lot of
trouble with my well. They can say all they want to about the
table being low and all your -- how water's supposed to do. I
think that that doesn't do me any good, what is supposed to be,
but what is actually happening, and I've had three new check
valves since June. And when Stan did have the man come out,
Mr. Stringer, from the county, yes, I just had a new check valve.
So I had no problem when he was there, and he stated that the
well is old. Possibly, because it was there when we bought the
property. I do not know anything about the well.
So, in all fairness, I am having a professional person come
out soon. Because what I've had in the past is just somebody
who's been able to help me, and so there's not actual proof, just
my say-so, against Glen's, and he's saying that there's
neighborhood meetings. I've never known of any neighborhood
meetings. He has called a few of the neighbors and has talked to
them, and that's all that I know about.
And the land that he is going to do now is -- because he's
Page 115
January 23, 200t
had success with the other, which I am glad for him and his
family, but he has purchased this land with the intentions of
doing the sand mining. This is all new property that he has
purchased, and we do have a lot of land mining around us.
I understand there is going to be a new public hearing
February 1st on -- that's just across Immokalee Road from us.
And there's a lot off of Everglade, there, which is on the other
side of the canal from us, but there is a lot there, and they're
having water problems, also.
And one of the large well companies is saying that it is due
to the sand mining, and when my one friend from church called,
he said you have 15 calls ahead of you with all the same type of
problem, and she had to have a new well put in. And there's
sand mining behind her that's been going on for three years. But
through the process, now, and it's just -- you just wonder, like
she said, where is all this going to go? All our agricultural is
going to sand mining.
Yes, we do need the sand for the developing of the new
homes and things because I bought fill when I built mine. But --
and so I know it has to come from someplace, but it just seems
like we have so much in our area right now. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, ma'am.
MR. OLLIFF: Next speaker is Mike Ball, followed by Bill
McDaniel.
MR. BALL: I am Michael Ball. I am one of the neighbors
down there. I'm also the one that Glenn was referenced to that --
I had told them back when they first started digging the pit, that,
you know, how about a job, or something like that. No, they had
all the qualified operators they needed. No problem.
I also said something to a comment the last time we had a
talk to him, that if he'd hired me back then then, this wouldn't all
be any trouble. Wouldn't be no trouble. So that's where this
inference come from. Okay? That's where he's talking about.
Now, as far as the neighborhood meetings go, he called me.
He didn't call anybody else to talk to the neighborhood
meetings. He called me, and my wife, he didn't even talk to my
wife, he talked to me, and said, Mike, we'd like to have a meeting
with you on such and such a day, which was actually the day of
the Environmental Commission meeting that this was supposed
to come up, and that was, like, proof that they weren't going to
Page 116
January 23, 2001
the Environmental Commission meeting because we were going
to have the meeting on the orange grove that day, so we
wouldn't have to.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. Shh, please.
MR. BALL: Whatever meeting it was. The one that didn't
have enough -- anyway.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I've got one, too.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And then you've got Donna.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, well, I'm protecting.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's funny. Okay. I'm sorry.
MR. BALL: So he didn't contact any neighbors except me. I
was the one that initiated contacting Tommy Hill and Mr. Mac
McKay and my wife were the ones that sit down in his office with
Bill McDaniel and what we discussed, okay, we discussed the
possibility of replacing Ms. June's well, and he told me he would
go that day and talk to her about it, that he was going to do it,
and he never even mentioned it to her again since then.
We left the meeting, we went outside, and I said, you know,
hey, this is your aunt, man. You need to talk to her. You need to,
you know, get something straight here, you know. You know, her
well's messed up. The trees are dying on her property, you know
Well, it's not my fault, I don't own it. It's not the well, it's
not the problems with the well she's got.
And I'm up here shaking. I tell you, this man has lied to us
from the git-go. Okay? He told me -- he told me --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I know. Sir?
MR. BALL: Yeah?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We're going to try to bring A
resolution to this. I think Mr. Ball is a very nice person, and I
think he's going to be more than willing to work with us. MR. BALL: Who, me? I am Mr. Ball.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm sorry, Mr. Ball. I mean
Glenn.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE.' Mr. Simpson.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' He's more than willing to work
with us, the petitioner. I kind of calmed the rhetoric just a little
bit so we can try to reach some sort of resolution. It would be a
lot easier. I think you know where I'm coming from.
MR. BALL: Yeah. Thank you. He told us that they were
Page t17
January 23, 2001
going to dig up a little corner of the orange grove to start with.
He had an orange grove to start with. Before this was a big pit, it
was an orange grove. He was going to dig it up a little bit, and
get out of debt. No problem, man. You want to get out of debt, I
can understand that. But it went from another one to another
one -- now his whole orange grove is dug up.
Now, he wants to expand it and go twice as deep, digging up
dirt which is, quote, sand, beach sand, when they can get a
dredge, which they did in Panama City, and dredge the beach
sand that blew away back to the beach at a whole lot less
expense than what trucking it is down Immokalee Road, and
even if you truck it from Glades County, you're getting on major
highways and coming down the Interstate and not Immokalee
Road, which is deemed the number one dangerous road in Florida
from accidents and deaths on the road.
He has a turn lane coming in that's fine for people coming
from Naples going to Immokalee, but half these trucks now are
trying to avoid Immokalee Road, and they're going down
Everglades, so they pull right out in front of us, and they go two,
three, four, five miles an hour just as -- you know, they're loaded
down with as much as they can get, so he turns down
Everglades. So they're tearing up Everglades, now. They're
tearing up Immokalee Road.
The traffic -- Glenn told me at the last meeting, when this
man over here said there was 80 trucks drove, he said, I'm going
to clarify that. Well, there's 250, easy, and he tried to get up
here and say something, and they canceled the meeting right
then. They said, public opinion is now shut.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. If I may interject
something there. I assure you that when we go through this little
dissertation, I'll make sure that certain things are put on the
record, and anything that's said, he'll be held accountable for it,
just as you will be, too, for what you say.
I don't know what has happened in the past, but that's the
past. We're talking in the new future and what we're going to do
to make this thing work for the neighbors in that area.
MR. BALL: Well, I know this man is willing to say and do
anything to get this thing going. He's said a lot of things to a lot
of people that hasn't come true. You can look at -- Ms. June's
property is right next to him. There's no berm there. He's been
Page 118
January 23, 2001
digging for two years, but he said he was going to do it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Next speaker, please.
MR. OLLIFF: Next speaker is Bill McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So he is available for questions,
he's one of the partners if we have questions for him.
MR. OLLIFF: Next speaker is Millie Ball, followed by
Eduardo Tabraue.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is he here? Yes. Thank you, sir.
We'll ask you to come be on standby.
Ms. Ball, if you'll say your name for the record, we'd
appreciate it.
MS. BALL: Millie Ball. Let me go ahead and give you these.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: If you'll just give them to Tom,
he'll help you out with them.
MS. BALL: In the interest of saving time, I did send you a
couple of E-mails detailing some of the problems I've had with
previous hearings. If anybody didn't -- I have another copy of the
E-mail, if anybody didn't happen to read it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No, we got them and had them
printed out. Everybody has it.
MS. BALL: Okay. You know, you mentioned going out and
seeing this site recently. The site right now is somewhat -- the
operation is severely shut -- curtailed. It would be like if you go
to the grocery store at 11 o'clock at night as opposed to noon.
Well, yeah, it's not going to be very busy.
And now, you know somebody's going to come to visit,
you're going to clean up, right? That's normal. So, I want you to
know that's not a fair evaluation. I wish I had videotape when
it's going gangbusters, I don't.
Another problem I have is the thing I just handed out. I
assume you all have hobbies and other lives -- I mean, other
things to do. I know I do. I'm a busy person. I see flagrant
disregard of the things that were already passed in the County
Commissioner meeting. That's what you've got there as an
attachment.
So, if we're not going to pay attention to what was done in
the previous County Commissioner meeting, are we wasting our
time here? To me that's kind of like -- and that's why I went to
the trouble of, rather than just saying something was wrong, I
took the time to reference each item. So I'm not just -- I tried to
Page 119
January 23, 2001
give you a fair evaluation that there's a credibility gap.
Another problem. We know from previous observation, it
takes about three minutes to fill a truck. Okay? Now, I'm pretty
-- math is -- if you're going to fill, okay, say 70 trucks. Three
minutes times 70. Roughly, it takes you about three and a half
hours. You want to have the pit open 11 hours a day. Does it
make sense to run an operation like that?
So, I'd have a question about that because that's just not a
way to run a business. They were shut down shortly -- not
working on Saturday, but they're back in business on Saturday.
Again, I don't know why the environmental people can say
something in a Planning Commission and counteract something
that the County Commission has done. Now, I've got military
background, certainly a hierarchy, I kind of thought the County
Commissioner meeting was the top of the tier, but I guess it's
not, if that's the way we're going to do things. Doesn't make
sense to me, and I haven't heard a reasonable explanation yet.
We have a petition from the neighbors, more than 50 percent
opposing the pit. Granted, they couldn't all come, drop
everything and come. Most of them work. You know, I didn't
even know that anybody was listening until I got a call
yesterday. I was kind of feeling like we were saying a lot of
things, going to the meetings, and then nobody was listening
because we don't have million dollar homes. Well, our homes are valuable to us.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And we're listening. Your
opinions are valuable to us.
MS. BALL: Again, the commitment was made for the earth --
putting the earth berm wall up. That was back in November.
This has been two months. Now, if you've got earthmining
equipment, how much trouble does it take to run a little dirt up
there? I'm sorry, that two months is more than reasonable. A
commitment was made, commitment wasn't kept.
So I'm supposed to believe this commitment is going to be
kept after we've passed something?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is what you mean, the berm that
they're talking about they'll put in if they get this approval? See,
they would only put that in --
MS. BALL: No. We were talking about starting from Ms.
June's property, which borders Immokalee Road, on back
Page120
January 23, 2001
because you have to have a border by Immokalee Road, but
there's nothing between the neighbors along, parallel, to
Friendship. There's nothing there.
From June's house, you can -- you're treated to the sight of
multiple equipment and shacks and stuff. Now, she keeps her
yard very nice, and she certainly mentioned that before as being
an eyesore.
You know, it just doesn't make sense. You talked about
only needing two or three blasts because, you know -- it was not
required, but it would be nice. It would save him some money.
Now, all of a sudden, I'm hearing, well, we need to blast every
three months. Well, now, three times ten is 40 -- I mean, excuse
me. Four times -- every three months would be four, you know.
Anyways, it makes about 40 blasts, as opposed to three blasts.
Well, again, that's math. Doesn't figure to me.
I would ask you to -- I gave you the Executive Summary -- I
don't think I need to read it to you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: No, ma'am, I'll have to ask you to
summarize, please.
MS. BALL: Okay. Basically, I'd read the last statement of
my E-mail. "In a city where pride is taken in the aesthetic
appearance of a bridge, at the cost of over $1,000,000, not to
mention eagle and turtle habitats, cannot big business desires be
restrained to lessen impact on the impact of rural quality of life?
Quality of life in an aesthetically pleasing surrounding, balanced
with responsible development, is something Naples takes pride
in, but does it stop at the city limit sign? It sure sounds like it to
me."
COMMISSIONER COLETTA'. If I may, I agree with you, but I
just want to go over one thing here. I got your communique here.
I was very impressed. I highlighted the items that you had down
here as what would be possibly acceptable if other things were
met, too.
And I didn't think your requests were unreasonable. In some
cases, the petitioner has already said that they're heading in that
direction. What I'd like to propose -- let me finish. And this is up
to the petitioner, is that possibly he might want to continue this,
subject to meetings with myself, the residents out there, and the
petitioner, to see how we can address the situation and other
things, too.
Page 121
January 23, 2001
And maybe we can come up with something that -- the
whole thing, it should serve something for the neighborhood
when you're done. It should be something that isn't totally
intolerable.
It should be something you can live with in the end, if we do
go with something like that, but this is up to the petitioner, I
guess, to ask for something like a continuance.
MS. BALL: So, we're just basically at the mercy, if the
commitments are kept because they previously haven't been.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No. What I'm asking for is the
petitioner to think this out a little bit. If we take a vote, and it's
not in his favor, he wouldn't be able to come back for, what is it,
six months?
If he continues it, it gives us a chance to be able to meet. I
personally would come out, or whoever you would like to come
out, and meet with the residents there, sit down with the
petitioner, who I've known from other things and I've found to be
a reasonable man. I don't know what the problem is there, but
I'm more than willing to sit down and see if there might be some
meeting of the minds.
And I could report back to this commission what I found out,
whether he's being unreasonable, or if the residents are
expecting more than they should. I'm more than willing to do it,
if you'd like.
MS. BALL: If there was a -- I'd hate to have to live with this
for another five years or three years while the land is being
ravished.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, let me put it this way. If
we vote it down, and I don't know which way it's going to go, and
I don't know what reasons we would find to vote it down, he'd be
back in six months. Then six months again, and eventually
somewheres along the line, there might be a commission here
that would see his way, and there you'd be, out of luck.
Right now the ball may be in your court, if you would wish to
pursue it in that direction. But, you know, this is entirely up to
you and -- well, mainly the petitioner. He's the one that brought
it before us.
MS. BALL: Well, if -- in previous times, things have been
approved with stipulations.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We haven't even come to that
Page 122
January 23, 2001
point yet, but I'm talking about such things as bonds in place to
guaranty performance. I'm talking on monitoring that would take
place by different government entities out there.
I'm talking about different elements put into place that
never existed there before, to offer you protection into the
foreseeable future, to guarantee that you get a certain amount of
performance that you didn't in the past.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner, I appreciate where you
are,
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm sorry to take so long.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: This person has made her statement.
I think we need to hear the rest of the speakers, and then we can
have the discussion, and we'll see where it goes. Thank you very
much.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you for your time.
MS. BALL: Fine.
MR. OLLIFF: You have two speakers left, Mr. Chairman,
Eduardo Tabraue and Madison McKay.
MR. Tabraue: Good afternoon. My name is Eduardo
Tabraue. I live about 1440 Daffodil Court, about a little less than
half a mile from the pit.
The reason how I found out about all this situation was a
few months back we noticed that -- we had some cattles, and a
pond which was going low very quickly, and we have been there
for 10 years, never saw that before.
We have problems with our well, like this lady. In fact, we
have to -- I had to drill another well about a couple of weeks ago.
The previous one was pumping sand about a couple of months
and finally give up.
And so, in talking to one of the neighbors about four or five
months ago, he said, well, his name is Mr. Rob. He said, well,
you know, the pit is sucking the water. And then I'm talking to
different people, and one person that is very knowledgeable
about mining, he said that they were pumping water back to the
Gulf.
And we begin to investigate. I had gone to the office and
talked to the Collier County officers. We find out that Mr.
Simpson had been fined twice for pumping water to the Gulf.
And I talked to Mr. Simpson because I was at an environmental
agency meeting. He said, well, one time because one of my
Page 123
January 23, 2001
employees was by accident left all the valves open, all kind of
excuses. I don't know, it might be true.
Now, I heard all these things. My question is this. How are
we going to be sure that Mr. Simpson and Mr. McDaniel are going
to keep the law in the matter of pumping the water back to the
ground? And like I said, we have testimonial people who knows
about mining that they saw how they were pumping water into
the Gulf.
And we have Steve Nagy, which work for Collier County,
fined him twice for doing so. And the only thing that I'm doing
this morning is put the responsibility on the commissioner and
the Collier County authority to be sure that they make Mr.
Simpson, which I have nothing against him, and I'm very glad he
make a lot of money and sell all the sand to the Collier County
beach, and I'm very glad about that, to be sure that he keeps the
law, and what is just for the people around him.
We are very low, and I was surprised that Mr. Carlson from --
what's the name -- environmental, the Audubon Society, he did
not even pay attention to our concerns by saying, well, the
drought and the this and that, which is true. There's a lot of
drought. There's a lot of water table going down, whatever.
But they pay more attention for an eagle being in a tree,
they argue for an hour and a half about an eagle having a tree to
land, and not even even considering, make a fool of some of the
neighbors, when we are expressing our concern because of the
water situation.
So, the only thing that I will say today, I will count the
commissioners and the Collier County officials responsible for
this, Mr. Simpson and Mr. McDaniel just keep the law. Whatever
they said, they will do.
And the only thing that I ask to be just and to be something
that is fair for everyone, and I wish him the best. I don't have
anything against people making money or trying to do their best.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you, sir, This is all
public record. It's a matter of documents, and they have to
comply. They have been sworn to comply with everything that
goes on that record today, or if not, if it's not carried through, it
will go through a court process.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What happened to our last
Page 124
January 23, 2001
speaker? Who was that?
MR. OLLIFF: That speaker is Madison McKay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: McKay? Please come to the
microphone, sir.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: He already spoke.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh, did he speak already?
MR. OLLIFF: Yes.
MR. MCKAY: I wanted to add something.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Sir, I --
MR. MCKAY: You've got this water stored upon the hill.
How does he get it there?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Sir, you've had a chance to speak. I
understand your question. I'll let the petitioner answer that for
you, sir, but we need to move on with the hearing.
MR. CUYLER: Mr. Chairman, just a couple of things, and any
other questions you have, I'll let Mr. Simpson answer.
You know, it's not the people that are trying to harm you, it's
the people that hear the rumors and perpetuate them.
We asked Mr. Chrzanowski to check with the Water
Management District. We've never been fined. We've never paid
any money. He checked with the Water Management District,
and he can confirm that, as well.
In terms of the stipulations, we expected there to be written
stipulations. We want to know what the rules are as well as you.
We want to make sure that we can comply with them, as well.
What I would like to see, Commissioner Coletta, is, let's go
ahead and set out the stipulations right now. I mean, we're
willing to do just about everything we can do to protect the
neighbors, and I would just as soon do it right now.
If we're going to have a 10 to 15-foot berm that's covered
and has grass, so that there's no wind, we're willing to do that. If
you would like to reduce your review period from five years to
say three years to check our stipulations, talk to your staff, make
sure we're doing everything we're supposed to be doing with our
conditions, we're willing to do that.
If you want the machinery muffled on the site, we're willing
to do that. If you want us to comply with the Collier County
Explosive Ordinance and the Excavation Ordinance, in terms of
time, the same thing everybody else is expected to do, we're
willing to do that.
Page 125
January 23, 2001
So, if we could, I wouldn't mind going ahead and listening to
what those stipulations are right now and doing whatever we
need to to address the neighbors' concern.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Ken, I appreciate that, and this
gentleman that spoke last, he gave a very good speech and said
-- but mainly what he said was, how do we make sure -- and he
would hold us responsible, which he has every right to do -- how
would we make sure that all of those stipulations are met?
So, as we hear this, let's put a safeguard in there to make
sure that these things are met.
MR. CUYLER: And I would suggest there are two things you
can do. One is, in your review period in two and a half years, you
personally are going to be able to hear from your staff as to
whether we've met conditions.
And secondly, you have a hammer that I know you know
about, which is Code Enforcement Board, and that is, if you
violate stipulations of a PUD or conditional use resolution or
whatever, go to the Code Enforcement Board, and they can put a
fine up to $500 a day on your operation, and I can assure you, it
takes a bite out of you to have $500 a day going for a fine.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I'm sure Mr. and Mrs. Ball
would keep us aware, too, if something isn't being done.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What we're talking about is
going to be quite extensive, and I don't know if I'm really
prepared to go through the whole thing, but I'm willing to give it
a try.
MR. CUYI. ER: We have some time constraints, as well. We
have contracts that are coming up, not to mention we just
missed a contract with the county for the beach sand because of
this whole process. So if there's any way we could do that --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, if there's any -- would a
two-week period make that much of a difference for the
operation? I'll be honest with you. I think I have a tendency to
be much more exact and probably demand a heck of a lot more in
some of these restraints that I would be if I could meet with you
outside and meet with the residents, too. I can't bring them up
and start a dialogue going back and forth. Mr. Carter will get on
me.
MR. CUYLER: Why don't you demand, and let's see if we can
do it, if you're in a position to do that.
Page 126
January 23, 2001
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. Well, let's play the game.
Specify more reasonable hours of operation of 8:00 a.m. to 6:00
p.m., with no excavation or earth moving on weekends.
Want me to go through all of them, or give up on one?
MR. CUYLER: Why don't you go through all of them.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' Two, require water pumps to be
housed and muffled, since they often run during nighttime hours.
Three, limit operations to less than 10 years total, with a
review period at two years, after which the land must be
rescaped and converted to housing or otherwise aesthetically
pleasing appearance. The original pit owner shall be held
financially liable and guarantee it will be done in a timely
manner,
Some sort of bond to be posted that would give us
guarantees that if we failed in any way that we would be able to
come through.
The prohibiting of the blasting is probably asking more that
could be tolerated, but to come up with a schedule that's so
tightly compressed that it would impact the residents in a very
little minimum. That everything be in place, at your expense. As
far as monitoring goes, that the county inspectors are there.
That everything is duly marked down.
Okay. That the residents -- and I'm going to take it a step
past what's suggested here -- that the residents that border
within a thousand yards of your operation and your future
operation and if they have any problem with their wells, that at
your expense, you'll fix it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's like a third of a mile.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner Coletta, can
anybody explain to me how, when you dig a hole, that you're
affecting somebody's well? I mean, I just don't understand that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We can't prove or disprove it,
Commissioner Henning. That's the problem. I'm asked to make
a -- come up with something, as far as the rules to play by, on
short notice.
I haven't got a chance to go to counsel or anyone else or our
friends at Golden Gate Well Drilling and be able to seek any input
from them.
They're asking for something that is a quick draw-and-shoot
type of deal. That's what I'm giving at this point.
Page 127
January 23, 2001
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Simpson, are these two-inch
wells that are out there or are they four-inch wells?
MR. SIMPSON: Most of these are two-inch wells.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: They may have been drilled a
long time ago. We're at four-inch wells, and again, just common
sense, when you dig a hole, you're storing water to recharge the
aquifer in the area, you're not taking it away from them.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm not a hydrologist, and I don't
know. I know that the concerns of these people I'm trying to
meet, and with the limited time frame that I can work in at this
point in time, this is the only way I can address it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I appreciate that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And I'm looking after my
constituents, and we can amend this.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Cuyler, is there any way out of this
because I'm hearing both sides of this, and I have a 10-year drop
period. I'm like, wait a minute, there's too many variables here
to put that condition on you, in my opinion.
MR. CUYLER: Let me quickly go through what we could do.
In terms of the mufflers, they are already muffled, but
they're portable machines so we can't really house them. They
don't stay stationary. But we do muffle them, and Mr. Simpson
pointed out to me a long time ago, those are the same machines
that were out there when it was an orange grove.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And they run only certain times
and the orange groves are not in the same kind of operation as
the mining business. And that kind of comparison is the thing
that gets people mad when you start to compare them like that.
MR. CUYLER: Then forget I said that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. I'm talking about the
residents. Me, I got all the patience in the world.
MR. CUYLER: But we will go ahead, those are already
muffled, so we're doing what we can do.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And that's encasing the well
pumps, the pumps that are pumping the water that are going all
during the nighttime hours and everything else, housing them in
such a way to muffle the sounds.
MR. CUYLER: We'll do it. We'll figure out a way to do it.
In terms of the two-year review, we can agree with that.
With the capital investment that you put -- the machines that you
Page 128
January 23, 2001
saw when you were on the site --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's a million bucks.
MR. CUYLER: Pardon me?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's a million dollars.
MR. CUYLER: With that kind of capital investment, we
would ask that you not limit us to less that the life. If things go
well, and the business proceeds well, then it may be --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The only thing that would
hamper the review or would be a negative review is if you didn't
perform up to expectations. And if you're the good neighbor that
you plan to be, I'm sure there would be absolutely no problem at
all.
Why would we be encouraged to pull something, if there
wasn't just cause to do so?
MR. CUYL. ER: I'm sorry. I lost your train of thought on that.
I'm talking about the 10-year --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: In other words, the two-year
review, the two-year window --
MR. CUYLER: Right, no problem, I understand.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That the reason for it, to make
sure that you are complying to --
MR. CUYLER: We agree to that. I am talking about the
10-year -- I thought I understood you to say 10 years built at -- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I did say 10-year. What's the
number that you were saying?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: What he is saying, you have a two-year
review, you have a 10-year life on the project.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And they're saying please let the
life be the life.
MR. CUYLER: We can't agree to a 10-year life. I mean, with
the capital investment you put up front --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm asking you, what is the
number of years that it would be for something like this?
MR. CUYLER: We're not sure. It depends on supply --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Mr. Coletta, if we are doing a
review every two years, why do we care? Every two years, we're
looking at it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That makes a lot of sense.
MR. CUYLER: In terms of the bond, we have a bond that's
required as part of the excavation.
Page 129
January 23, 2001
COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' Is it an ongoing bond that they
don't get a refund back after a year or something?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Stan?
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: The bond is for the term of the
excavation. It's 25 cents a cubic yard up to a $500,000
maximum, and it's in place as long as the excavation is going on.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' Okay. Now suppose the
excavation doesn't comply to something, like the number of
trucks that they agreed to have in there, or they decide to go on
Saturday? Would the bond perform then? MR. CHRZANOWSKI: No.
MR. WEIGEL: Commissioner, that would be a Code
Enforcement violation, and it would be subject through
enforcement, through that means.
MR. CUYLER: You do have a mechanism to make sure we
do -- same mechanism everybody is required to go under. If you
ask me, am I going to advise my client to be careful about Code
Enforcement Board fines that can run up to $500 a day, I can
assure you the answer is yes, I'm going to tell him that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And you know, you guys who are
saying that they haven't lived up to things in the past, I was just
going to encourage you to talk to -- I don't see him now. But you
can always talk to Mr. Olliff and file a code enforcement
complaint.
MR. CUYLER: Absolutely. We'll be happy to address
anything anybody wants to say.
In terms of the blasting one day every three months, we can
live with that. We would ask that that be --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Notice would be sent to the
owners that are close by when it takes place?
MR. CUYLER: Well, not only that, we'll send notice to
everybody that's here, at least.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Everybody who got the notice of
this meeting. The same radius.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' You'll provide the necessary
inspectors that will inspect prior to and after?
MR. CUYLER'. County does that. We pay for it as part of our
application.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Now, is this where the bond
comes in?
Page 130
January 23, 2001
MR. CUYLER: No. That's separate.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: How do we know -- suppose
damage results from blasting. What recourse would the
residents have?
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: The bond is a restoration bond. If the
project is not done properly, the bond is to make sure it's
finished properly or to restore it to some reasonable -- say they
fail two or three years into the project. They go bankrupt. The
bond is there to make sure that we restore the lake to some
usable fashion or at least an aesthetic fashion.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Up to this point in time, I was
under the belief that the residents here had a certain amount of
protection from the bond itself for nonperformance, but they
don't.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That's a civil action, and it would have
to be done through independent inspection.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Is there something that can be
done that would strengthen this particular loophole, so that we
don't have them coming back later saying that they didn't
comply, that they're blasting now four times a year instead of
three times a year, and I've got a crack in my garage wall?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But you know what, Mr. Coletta,
I'd love to say, yeah, let's make them post a letter of credit or
something. We could do that, but we still need an arbiter of the
facts.
We can't -- I don't think it would be fair to say, whoever and
whatever you're doing, here's a bond that posted. Now, I'm your
neighbor and if I say this crack came from your blasting, dad gum
it, you've got to fix it with that bond. That's what the courts are
for.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I understand. And forgive me, I
just have a matter of minutes here to try to dig up and everything
and give it back to them, and I'm running into obstacles that
make it very difficult. I know there's other avenues that we
could go. I don't know what they are.
And I'm waiting to hear from staff, from my fellow
commissioners. What can we do to offer a means of protection
for the residents out there and still allow this man to make a
living?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner, I understand where
Page 131
January 23, 2001
you're going with this, and I think they're telling you everything
that they can do to protect them. There's no foolproof system.
A truck backfires on US 41 and a guy living down the street
says, it cracked my wall. You have recourse through the courts,
or you have recourse when in doubt. But we have a whole
procedure under blasting that says if it's within this area, and
there's something that happens as a result of that blasting, they
do have recourse or due process of which they can present their
case.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And I think what we've had in
the past has been inadequate, to be honest with you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Maybe we can ask them to
submit to mediation, to agree to mediate those disputes.
MR. CUYLER: Well, the mechanism you have, again, is the
code that cause the judicial body to go in front of the residents
and say, here is what we think the problem is.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What Mr. Coletta is saying is, he
is not satisfied with the way it's worked.
MR. CUYLER: The Code Enforcement Board?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Not necessarily you.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Stan Chrzanowski with Development
Services. The Blasting Ordinance -- for you to fix -- we can send
somebody out and do a preblast video of every structure. In this
case, it's relatively simple. But when you're blasting in an area
where you have a lot of dwellings -- and we do have the 350-foot
limit with dwellings -- we could videotape all of them within the
350-foot limit. That would be difficult to do.
But if you start going out to a third of a mile, you start
increasing geometrically and picking up a lot of structures, and
truthfully we don't see that much real damage when it comes
down to it.
We get a lot of complaints. We get a lot of shaking, but a
thunderclap causes as much shaking as most blasting that we
allow because RP particle blasting is just so low. We could go
out there and videotape everything.
As far as the wells, I -- like Ms. Grogloth said, I sent Bob
Stringer out. Bob told me those are old wells. He said they are
shallow. They are in sand, and sand wells -- sand eventually --
they're not drilled in rock. The sand eventually goes into the
well, clogs the check valve, runs through the pump, and they
Page132
January 23, 2001
should probably get new wells.
If Mr. Simpson wants to do that, fine. It seems like a cheap
investment, but how far do we make him go? I would say 1,000
yards is a very long distance. I could see 100 yards.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The immediate neighborhood.
I've been asked to come up with -- render decisions on subjects
that I have very limited knowledge on in a small period of time.
I'm not comfortable with the process. I would just as soon have
it continued and be able to carry this discussion on at some later
date.
I'm really at a loss here because I know that I'm missing a
lot, and I might be imposing some things upon your client that
are totally unfair. I don't think this is the place for me to try to
do this. I've got some concerns and everything, and I'm not able
to address them.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: If we get most of this in place right
now, and there's further discussion, and you want to go back
with the petitioner and the neighborhood, and they can negotiate
their differences, I would think it would be pretty minor, versus
what you have outlined here.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I would think so, too.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And I would think we could get an
agreement. They are business people. They, too, have a capital
investment, and we can appreciate.
So I think you have done a great job in outlining what your
expectations are. If they're okay with that, I don't think we can
cover every little piece, but let a committee be set up and have
further discussion with you and your client -- constituents,
excuse me, and see if there's some minor things that still need to
be worked out and see if they can reach agreement on it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Will we have any avenue past
the vote we take here today?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE.' Every two years. If you get that,
Jim, you've got them. You know, if they agree to every two years
MR. CUYLER: You don't have that for any conditional use
petitions I've seen.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I've never heard -- I can't believe
they're agreeing to it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I was going to ask for a year,
Page 133
January 23, 2001
now,
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I need to go ahead and say out
loud that, frankly, I'm pretty satisfied with the restrictions that
our code has in place, and so if you're counting votes, you know,
it may be that you have four votes without all these restrictions.
I just have to say that, Mr. Coletta, you know --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I understand, I understand.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But if you've got this two-year
thing, you've got them. Every two years, they have to come talk
to us. Good grief. Your neighborhood has just been very
empowered.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'd like to ask the county
attorney, am I missing anything here, or have I overstepped some
bounds? I want to make sure that whatever we put together at
this point in time has some meaning to it.
MR. WEIGEL.' Well, you're not overstepping bounds. Your
questions are all very good, and I think that some of the
limitations that have been mentioned to you and relief valves are
all certainly important for you to hear, but also for the public and
the people that are in attendance here.
There are many things in place in the normal scheme of
things, even without stipulations or conditions put on here,
which do provide considerable standards and hurdles for a
petitioner of this type to have to comply with.
I think the conditions that you have outlined right here
which have been agreed to on the record, and as Chairman
Carter indicated, that becomes a binding promise for them and
becomes part and parcel of the record of review, both for this
board to review and, at this point, every two years, but also for
code enforcement as we go forward because these are
conditions that become the actual dynamic conditions and
day-to-day basis of the business operations that may come to be
at the site in question.
So, no, I don't think you have missed anything. The concern
you have about the bond being more than a mere restoration
bond, very interesting. Although I think Ms. Mac'kie is absolutely
correct that it would place the county and the county staff for
this county board in a very difficult position if we became the
forum, as opposed to a court, to decide the civil issues that may
come up at some point in the future.
Page 134
January 23, 2001
It's very difficult for the county to be able to create a record
that says that the conditions of nearby properties, in this case,
houses, is of such a condition, at a certain point in time, that
there's a cause and effect specifically caused by the activities
that this enterprise may or may not do in the future.
That puts us in a position of liability, and so, as Ms. Mac'kie
advised and as I would advise is, I wouldn't want to advise you or
put the county, the taxpayers behind the county government, in
that kind of indemnification risk. I think there are a lot of
aspects of protection that are already there.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA'- I'm looking very much forward
to the workshop we have on future earthmining projects, very
much forward to it.
MR. CUYLER: Mr. Chairman, could I briefly review the
stipulations and make sure we all know what we're talking
about, just very quickly?
In addition to the staff stipulations, I have down that we
have already muffled, and we will house in some fashion the
pumps. We have a two-year review, where we come in front of
you and you check our stipulations and talk to your staff to
determine whether we've met our stipulations.
MR. OLLIFF: I want to clarify that one. Is that in every two
years, or the first two years?
COMMISSIONER COL. ETTA: I would say every two years.
MR. CUYL. ER: I would say the first two years, and if you
want to change it at that point, then change it, but we will come
every two years, if that's what you want. We fully expect to be
here.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA:
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
COMMISSIONER COLETTA:
We would have the option to --
-- waive it.
Waive it if we want to. I mean, I
don't want to go through this exercise every two years if it's not
necessary, and I know you're going to be the best of neighbors.
MR. CUYLER: The bond, in accordance with the excavation
ordinance, we will be filing that.
With regard to blasting, a condition will be that it is one day
every three months, maximum. If we don't need to do that, then
we won't do that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Notification to the residents.
MR. CUYLER.' Notification to the residents, and we will work
Page 135
January 23, 2001
with staff with regard to when the blasting takes place to do
whatever we need to do.
MR. OLLIFF: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. On that point, were
you going to go ahead with the video, preblast video?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I thought we were just going to
send notice out to each of the neighbors who were subject to the
notice of today's hearing. Frankly, I don't want to spend the
staff's time.
MR. OLLIFF'- At the petitioner's expense?
MR. CUYLER: Yes, we will pay for it. And we will have a 10
to 15-foot berm with some kind of vegetative cover, sod or
whatever, to make sure the sand doesn't blow --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Do you think you could be
specific, so it's not just weeds? Do you think we could have, you
know --
MR. CUYLER: Bahia.
MR. OLLIFF: Where is the location of that berm?
MR. CUYLER: That it will be on the inside of the infiltration
trench near the edge of the property.
MR. OLLIFF: Western boundary?
MR. CUYLER: The entire length of the western boundary of
the property.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Correct.
MR. CUYLER: And all other things will be in conformance
with the Excavation and the Explosive Ordinance.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Motion to approve subject to
those conditions and the staff conditions.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I'll second that. I think you've
given a lot, and not only that, been so cooperative.
On top of that, we haven't even committed them for building
this weir that we didn't ask for, plus the fire protection that the
Golden Gate Estates people will have. So I will second it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner Coletta, how do
you feel about the process?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I like the process. I wish there
was a little more working time in it. Next time I'll be a little bit
better prepared, and I'll have additional meetings so that I don't
hold up the commission with this type of rhetoric going back and
forth.
I am going to vote yes for this, so that after I meet with
Page 136
January 23, 2001
everybody concerned, I'll have the right for recall if I so
determine, if necessary.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed by the same sign.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carried five to zero.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' Thank you so much. I apologize
for that little exercise. I'm going through a learning process.
MR. CUYLER: My arm aches a little bit, but I'll be fine.
Item #13A3
PETITION A-2000-02, ANTHONY PIRES, JR., REQUESTING AN
APPEAL OF THE COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION'S
APPROVAL OF A BOAT DOCK EXTENSION BD-2000-23,
APPROVED ON OCTOBER 19, 2000 FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT
9207 VANDERBILT BEACH ESTATES UNIT 2, IN SECTION 32,
TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 25 EAST - CONTINUED TO A TIME
CERTAIN AT THE FEBRUARY 137 2001 MEETING
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. We have -- next item in front
of us is Petition A 2000-02, and we have one following that, it's
similar, and that's 03, and we need an overview by the county
attorney because this is not a variance, ladies and gentlemen.
This is an appellate court review, and we have to operate
within certain guidelines. So please, anybody that thinks it's a
variance, it is not a variance, and we may have some limitations
under which we can operate.
So I need to have everybody that's going to participate in
this to stand and be sworn.
THEREUPON:
All those wishing to speak on behalf of this issue, being first
duly sworn, testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Chairman, if I may--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. But I need to hear from the
county attorney on this and from John Dunnuck before we
proceed. I think that may answer a lot of where you want to go
with this. I need to get that on the record first. I have
committed to them, if you could hold your questions until then.
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and your words are
pointed about where they want to go, they may be able to go
Page 137
January 23, 2001
much sooner.
The fact is, this is a limited review situation before this
Board of County Commissioners. You are sitting as an appellate
board looking to review the record that came before the Planning
Commission, and if this were to go forward today, we would
provide you with a little additional information in regard to the
limitations and qualifications of the review process that you
have.
I will state at the outset, before I defer to a second issue
here, that this is different than -- this matter before you is
different than a conditional use that you talked about. It's
different than rezoning.
You are sitting as an appellate forum here to review as an
appellate board a final decision made by a committee below you.
That having been said, it's been brought to my attention that
the petitioner before you today -- in fact, for both the two items,
the boat dock items 13(A)(3) and 13(A)(4), and the respondents
that were to come before you today are both going to be
requesting a continuance from hearing today, to ask that this be
brought back on the next board meeting three weeks from now
on February 13.
They have all been sworn in. I'd like for them to step
forward and make any statements on the record and answer any
questions that you may have.
Mr. Pires, Mr. Yovanovich?
MR. PIRES: Thank you, Mr. Weigel. Anthony Pires, with
Woodward Pires and Lombardo, for the petitioners.
As Mr. Weigel has accurately represented, we request and
agreed to continuing this to February 13.
The second request we would like to ask as part of this, and
I understand the board agenda meetings can be difficult at times
to gage, four items may be heard at what time.
We would request a time certain. As you can see, my
clients and those in support of our position have been waiting
here patiently. We would request a time certain so as to have
the certainty of knowing when these items will occur.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That seems fair to me,
considering that they have sat here all day without getting to
speak. I think we can accommodate that somehow.
MS. BARNETT: Lisa Barnett with Cheffy Passidomo Wilson
Page 138
January 23, 2001
& Johnson. We represent the petitioner, Liberty Ventures. We
agree to the continuance and also would request a time certain
on February 13th.
Item #13A4
PETITION A-2000-03, ANTHONY PIRES, JR., REQUESTING AN
APPEAL OF THE COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION'S
APPROVAL OF BOAT DOCK EXTENSION BD-2000-20, APPROVED
ON NOVEMBER 2, 2000, FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 372 OAK
AVENUE, FURTHER DESCRIBED AS LOT 9, BLOCK 1,
VANDERBILT BEACH ESTATES UNIT 2, IN SECTION 32,
TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 25 EAST - CONTINUED TO A TIME
CERTAIN AT THE FEBRUARY 13, 2001 MEETING
MR. YOVANOVICH.' And on the next agenda item, Rich
Yovanovich representing Mr. and Mrs. Marino. We will agree to a
continuance, as well as we would request the time certain.
MR. WEIGEL: One last thing before you may act on the
request for continuance, and that is, as Mr. Olliff, county
manager, indicated, I think there were 22 speakers signed up for
one or both of these items,and that's why I took the time, even
though you may be continuing this, to mention that this is a
different kind of hearing that you're having.
It's not the kind of hearing where a record is being built here
and that you are to have all kinds of open, flexible consideration
to come to a decision.
The scope of your review in these matters is rather limited
to approve the decision that was made before you, approve it
with some limitations or conditions, or to disapprove it, and
that's really what it boils down to. You sit as an appeals board.
From the same standpoint, a little bit different from other
meetings for rezones and land use is the fact that this being an
appellate forum and appellate court, you don't have a parade of
new witnesses coming before you that provide you new
information, attempting to sway your opinion, nor is this
proceeding plebiscite, where people stand up for one particular
position or another particular position to show where interest in
the community lies.
So, from that standpoint, I'm advising you, the board,
Page 139
January 23, 2001
advising the public that signed up to speak today and the
counsel that are here representing their client interests of the
fact that if this matter is continued, or whenever these matters
are heard, I'll be advising the board and reviewing very carefully
the speaker list because these matters, these appellate matters,
are different and provide limitations as far as the record that is
to be created before you and the matters that you can consider.
There are limitations. I'm going to advise you and enforce
those to the extent that I can.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So basically, what people in the
audience might want to hear is -- so that we don't waste their
time again, it's not -- this isn't a hearing where we take
testimony. It's where we only can approve or disapprove, based
on the record, the written record of the Planning Commission,
and we can't even listen to outside -- to testimony outside of that
record.
MR. WEIGEL: That's really true. You're here to determine if
the testimony, record, and evidence that was before the tribunal
before you was substantive and incompetent, and it's not to
create new record and have new views placed upon you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So if I hear that correctly, that says
anyone that spoke in front of the Planning Council, I have to go
back to the minutes and read what they said. They would not be
allowed to come and speak to this appellate court, no matter
when we hear it. We work only with information that was
presented to the Planning Council, and no new information may
be presented. Is that correct?
MR, WEIGEL: That's really true. And you see, it's up to the
able counsel, the petitioners without counsel, to persuade you
based on the record below and not provide new materials that
were not before the Planning Commission or people that were
not before the Planning Commission before.
And you --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We don't have to listen even to
the testimony, again, I mean, if somebody were to stand up and
read their testimony from the Planning Commission.
MR. WEIGEL: Absolutely not. You are reviewer of the record
of the testimony that may be there before, and the attorneys or
representatives representing petitioners can bring you attention
to testimony offered below at the Planning Commission.
Page 140
January 23, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So we hear legal counsel on this basis,
and that's it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You know, our agenda needs to
reflect that in the future, so that people don't get misled into
thinking they sat here all this time for nothing because that
would be a shame. I mean, it needs -- we need to adjust our
agenda to say, these are appellate items, no public input, and
probably to allow for additional attorney time, instead of this five
minutes or something, you know what I mean?
MR. WEIGEL: Well, it's not five minutes, but of course, that's
at the prerogative of the Chair.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We would allow appropriate time, I
think, in those discussions, but understand that it is limited to
legal counsel's presentation on the part of whatever was
presented at the Planning Council, no new information, no
speakers from the public. We have to review all the documents.
MR. WEIGEL: True. And you know, I'll make another
statement in regard to the ex parte communications. We
covered that, I think, pretty broadly last Tuesday, but the fact is,
again, this is a little different kind of meeting, and since you're
supposed to -- hearing -- since you're supposed to be hearing
really what's on the record before, I would prefer, obviously, that
you not have as much ex parte materials provided to you outside
of the process that brings an agenda before you.
Now, it is incumbent upon the county in preparing the
agenda to you, to provide you a complete agenda of all the
materials that were before the CCPC, and that was part of the
issues that we had today, which bring us to a continuance for the
next meeting.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE.' So we can count on it when we
get this next time, it will be a full and complete record, and we
won't base our review on anything other that what's in our
packet.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And we will not meet with anyone of
either party, either points of view. We've got to review what's on
the record.
MR. WEIGEL: I think you're best served to let the persuasion
occur in the board room.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: All right.
Page 141
January 23, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: To the public, I apologize, but that is
how the system works and an appellate court works. Tony?
MR. PIRES: Mr. Chairman, with the Board's indulgence, if I
could just briefly -- I've always taken the position, and I agree
with the position, that the review by this board is based solely on
the record of the proceedings below in the Planning Commission.
I have discussed that numerous times with my client,
advised them numerous times. Any discussions I've had with
members of the county staff, anybody, about these types of
issues is it's based solely on the record.
But I am troubled by the fact that it appears that the advice
of the county attorney is that no one from the public can even
register, sign up and say, I support the appeal. I just wanted you
to know that. That's not interjecting new testimony. That's not
interjecting new evidence.
This board, yes, they're sitting in an appellate body, but I
think that's troublesome from the standpoint of not allowing the
public to let the board know that they believe that the position of
petitioners may be correct or may be incorrect in this particular
case.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But, Tony, won't they have
participated in the Planning Commission, and we'll have that
information before us already?
MR. PIRES: No. As far as the testimony, yes, but as far as
them getting up and saying, we support the appeal.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can't we have them raise their
hand or stand or something?
MR. PIRES: You know, that's -- they're not interjecting new
testimony or evidence into the record.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That's not what I heard the county
attorney say. He said a plebiscite could not -- we could not have
that take place, or am I incorrect, sir?
MR. WEIGEL: That was my words -- and see, you're looking
at the record below and determining if what they did below was
based on competent and substantial evidence, and that's pretty
much the parameter, right there.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Question, if I may?
MR. WEIGEL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Shouldn't we have the Planning
Commission here to question them, too?
Page 142
January 23, 2001
I'm serious.
MR. WEIGEL: No. You work off the record they have
created.
MR. PIRES: One thing, for clarification. I'm not asking for
plebiscite, never have, but I think it's one of the fundamental
aspects of citizenry in this county, in this country, in this
community, to be able to express one's opinion to their elected
official, and that's why I take issue with the advice being
provided by the county attorney.
Additionally, as to any ex parte contacts or
communications, those are based -- and when I have those kind
of meetings, they're based solely upon the record. I don't go
outside the record, and I'm very, very strict about that. That is
an issue that I take very seriously.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I can attest to that. Tony's
always -- will not talk about something unless he's got a piece of
paper and can point to from the record before.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Just to protect my client and add my
two cents, as you all know, your decision is not based on how
many hands -- how many people put their hands up one way or
the other. So the fact that someone wants to register their
support or opposition to an appeal is irrelevant to your decision,
and it's based solely on the record.
Everybody who wanted to participate in this appeal has
signed on with Mr. Pires to be their client, and they have
preserved their right to present to you what they believe the
issues are.
We are way beyond the stage of whether or not this is a
popularity contest. I don't believe that you should -- I think you
should follow your county attorney's advice and limit the
discussion to just based on the record.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Thank you for your input.
Thank you, Mr. Weigel. So, we are continuing these items, is
what I understand.
MR. WEIGEL: You are if you vote to do that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: What's the pleasure of the board?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion that we continue these
two items until our next public hearing.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Public board meeting?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Public board meeting.
Page 143
January 23, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
meetings were called. To our next board meeting.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We have a second to that.
I thought that's what all our board
All in favor
MR. DUNNUCK: Excuse me. For the record, John Dunnuck.
Could we also get a time certain to accommodate -- CHAIRMAN CARTER: I would like to leave that to the -- yes.
And I would leave that to the discretion of the county manager.
MR. OLLIFF: We'll go ahead and schedule that for a time
certain, and it will be printed on the regular agenda that's
advertised.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
Opposed by the same sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries, four oh.
Item #14A
DISCUSSION REGARDING THE AGENDA FOR THE JOINT
MEETING WITH THE CITY OF BONITA SPRINGS/LEE
COUNTY/AND COLLIER COUNTY
I think we are down to staff communications.
We need to take two minutes to let the court reporter
change her paper.
(A brief recess.}
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Can I get all the commissioners left
back on the dais, please? All right.
Mr. Olliff, we've got a lot of people out here who want to
know what we are going to be doing. Take us forward. You've
got three items for us, and we'll let you run the agenda, sir.
MR. OLLIFF: Okay. Under staff communications, we ended
up having a couple of proposed agendas for you to look at.
Neither of these has been shared with anyone other than this
board at this point, but we are working on a joint City of Bonita
Springs, Lee County, and Collier County meeting to be held in
Bonita strictly for convenience between the Lee and Collier
boards, and there are four items listed there for you to consider.
The first three, obviously, were submitted by Norman Feeder
Page 144
January 23, 2001
as part of a transportation coordination effort between Lee and
Collier County, all of which I would suggest are good items to
have on your agenda.
Obviously, the coordination of some additional north/south
thoroughways, whether it be Livingston Road, County Road 951,
or 175, are very, very important, I think, especially for Collier
County.
Transfers between the two public transit systems to make
an interconnected transit system, if you will, between Lee and
Collier County, I think makes a world of sense, if we can work
with their staff to coordinate that.
And then lastly, number three is an item about state and
federal transportation fundings, and I think we would probably
try and have some of the B-Swifty (phonetic) people come and
make brief presentation to both boards to update you all on
efforts, continuing efforts, to try to bring additional funding.
And lastly, some talk about the possibility of using the Lee
Henry Waste Energy Plant as an option. I know it was something
that had been considered at some point with a previous Collier
and Lee board. The response we got at that time wasn't the
most enthusiastic, but things have since changed, and we
thought it was at least put on the agenda to bring up again to see
if there were some possibilities.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Olliff, our consultant,
Malcomb Pirnie stated at the workshop that they don't have the
capacity for that. I mean, if the garbage bags are already full,
why should we try to open it up?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I think you're looking at a
temporary fix that they're looking for. They had enough to the
year 2008, if I remember correctly.
In other words, not having to haul the waste over to
Okeechobee. They'd be able to use that.
MR. OLLIFF: Even to know if it's a short-term option, I think
it would be good to know.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We might expand that just a
little bit to include talking to them about their experiences with
changing over from using a landfill to a waste-to-energy facility.
Maybe we can get a little feedback and some guidance from
them, so when we make our decisions, we're a little more
informed.
Page 145
January 23, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: One item I would like to add for
general discussion would be water, how they're dealing with
their water treatment plants, sewage plants, projections, effluent
water retention, any well issues, anything that surrounds that
that -- some of the flows of water that are coming down from
their county to ours.
It may be if -- you could maybe narrow -- maybe better
defined by the staffs, but I think that's an issue that's being
addressed by -- we are addressing it by the Regional Planning
Council. We may have some other input at that time, but I think
it's one we should have on our list, so the public understands
we're very concerned about that, as well.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: How about a hearing officer?
They have one in place there. We could benefit from finding out
what their experiences have been, where it's been leading them.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's a great idea.
MR. OLLIFF: It's not a bad idea, either. My suggestion to
you is, you don't get your agenda too overloaded, when you get
this many people together. Keep in mind you're going to have
three separate boards there. You're probably going to end up
with close to 20 elected officials, so it's going to be difficult to
get through two or three even good issues.
But we'll propose all of these, and if there's anything else --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I agree. You've got enough on one
agenda.
MR. OLLIFF: We'll propose these, and then depending on
what the other boards have, we may even have to break some of
these off into a separate meeting later on in the year.
Item #11 B
DISCUSSION REGARDING THE AGENDA FOR THE JOINT
MEETING WITH THE CITY OF NAPLES AND COLLIER COUNTY
The next agenda is the City of Naples/Collier County meeting
which has already been scheduled for February 1st, and these
are the three items that we propose; just a general discussion
about beach projects. Obviously, the board's approval this
morning is probably going to be welcome news for the city, but
we're also looking at some other beach projects that are in the
Page 146
January 23, 2001
scope that they probably are going to be interested in and we
can give some updates on.
Just so you know, I would imagine that the revised beach
committee would probably be something that would come up. I
think they have some other makeups in mind of a committee,
other than what was presented to you previously, so just heads
up on that.
Generally, the City of Naples provides certain budget
requests for the county commission to consider each year,
especially for items where -- for example, beach end
improvements, where the city has consistently made the
argument that the majority of the users of some of their
beach-type facilities are county residents, and that the county
has historically participated in a funding, a fair-share funding
scenario for some of those projects.
We like to try and get as much advance notice from the city
as possible about what's coming up, and so some discussion
from them about what they see as a possible fiscal year '02
budget request we've shown.
And then finally, obviously, the ASR test well issue. We did
go down on Friday. We made a full-blown presentation. The
meeting was supposed to last from 1:00 until 3:00. We didn't get
out of there until after 6 o'clock on Friday night, but I think there
was some good information shared. It was a workshop, so no
final decisions were made on the part of the city council.
But, obviously, I think that's an on-going issue between the
county and the city, and then I would expect that to be
something that they would want to talk about.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Do we have any transportation road
issues that we need to discuss with the city? Do they have any
concerns that we're not aware of that doesn't come through the
MPO?
MR. OLLIFF: I'm not aware of anything. We had proposed to
provide the same type workshop on our transit system that we
did on the ASR well and have not heard back as to whether or
not that's of interest, yet.
I do believe that from the comments from the Mayor on
Friday, they are very, very pleased with the relationship that's
been developed between the Mayor, the other MPO
representative, and our staff, at this point. The revisions that
Page 147
January 23, 2001
we've made to both routing, stops, signage, the look of the
actual bus itself, I think have been very, very positive, and I'm
not sure there's even still any concern on the part of the city.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: My compliments to staff on what
they've been able to do.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think that's been great and the delay,
it was certainly worth the delay to end up with a better system,
rather than to start something that would have failed or had to
require immediate readjustment.
So I'd like to go on public record, and to all our viewers, we
did delay it to end up with a better product. Sometimes a little
delay is better than ending up with a bad product.
If we have three items, that may be all we can deal with.
MR. OLLIFF: I agree. And keep in mind, these are items that
we're going to propose. I'm sure they're going to have some
things that they're going to want to put on the agenda, as well.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I just would like to say, also, that it
really pleases me that we are working so closely with the other
governments around our community and outside of Collier
County. That's something that we've needed to do.
MR. OLLIFF: It's been a number of years since we've had
any joint meetings, and I think they're generally helpful.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thanks, Tom.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, thank you, Tom. We're on the
right direction, and I'll hold all of my comments about what's
going on with the Regional Planning Council. Jim Coletta may
have some comments, too, but we need to provide this to the
board.
Item #11 C
BUDGET WORKSHOPS TO BE HELD THE 3;D WEEK OF JUNE;
BUDGET PUBLIC HEARINGS TO BE HELD SEPTEMBER 5 AND 19,
2001, IN THE EVENING
The other item we have is for our budget workshop
schedule, which has traditionally been done in June, and the
reason for that is that we have constraints by the property
appraiser and deadlines we must meet for the tax collector.
So we have the window of June, really, to get this done, so
Page 148
January 23, 2001
that we then can come back in the last week of July, first couple
of days of August. That's when we do the setting of rate, millage
rate, which goes out on the tear sheets to everybody that says,
you know, you got one of these little things that says, this is
proposed.
Then we come back in September, and then we have the
final budget workshop hearings, and that's when it's brought to
conclusion. It is a very -- it's a tight schedule, and it's one that I
would just encourage all commissioners, you have to plan for,
and if you have other things that take you from the area, there's
ways to do that. You can communicate either by written form to
us, you can do any number of things so you're not left out of the
loop.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Even a phone hookup would
suffice.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: E-mails or whatever. Find some ways
to do that because it's just been a -- I know when I went through
it, it cost me a lot of money in the month of June to do that. I
don't do much consulting, but I had to turn down a couple of
international contracts that were worth a sizable amount of
money because these people wanted to do it in June. I never
could be there and be here, too, so, I can understand and
empathize if anybody's got a problem in that area, but June really
seems to be the month we've got to do it.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: All right. I don't know how I'll get
around this. Three years ago, I put money down on a trip from
International Kiwanis, and -- to be in Taiwan. And I'm going on
the 17th of June, and I'm back on the 30th.
Of course, at that point in time, never knew I was going to
be running for county commission. We've been saving all along.
That's in stone, and there's no way to really talk to me on the
telephone.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Why is that, Donna?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Why is that?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I was in Singapore and even
Vietnam, and those kinds of linkups are all through the world.
It's not that uncommon.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: There's probably ways to do it. I was
in Kuwait and could talk on a cell phone better than I could in
the United States. They've got some great technology, folks. It
Page 149
January 23, 2001
beams around the world.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' You may find the hours not to be
very convenient. It may be the middle of the night.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The hours may be different.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: It's during the night?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' Well, you know, 12 hours
difference from here to Singapore.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: But I'm sure there's some workable
methodology in there through e-mailing and reviewing and
communicating. The other I might suggest is that, and I still use
this, I used a CPA Big 8 person that's helped me review these
budgets on a regular basis, to help me, and that person can
really say, well, you might want to raise these questions,
Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, I'm so glad you mentioned that
because I have a budget committee that's going to be getting
together to work with me. Actually, someone from Marco Island,
somebody from East Naples, and two people from the county at
large, and so they're going to be guiding me and -- through this
process.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: And they could be here and speak
to any one of the those issues. In fact, you might even direct to
them certain things you want to happen. So there's methodology
in there so you're not left out of the loop.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Maybe you can guide me
along this process.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We can do that.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Because I want to make sure that --
that's the only thing I'm ever going to miss that I know of. And I
regret that I have to --
MR. OLLIFF: Standing engagements from three years ago
are unavoidable, and that kind of stuff is just going to happen,
and just recognize that there are public hearings and a number of
board meetings from the time where you return until the budget
is finally adopted, so there are a number of opportunities for
input after you return.
COMMISSIONER FIALA'. Very good. And then I can have the
people that I'm working with on my budget committee. Oh, that's
swell. Okay.
Page 150
January 23, 2001
Item #11 D
AFTER THE REGULAR BCC JUNE 26, 2001 MEETING, NEXT
REGULAR MEETING DURING THE SUMMER WILL BE HELD JULY
31, 2001 AND THE FOLLOWING REGULAR MEETING WILL BE
HELD SEPTEMBER 11, 2001
MR. OLLIFF: But to close that item, I think, traditionally, the
board has taken a summer break. Traditionally, during the
months of July and August with one meeting usually in between
which is necessary for the tentative millage to be set.
And I've got a rough schedule that I'll provide you verbally
this morning, and assuming that works for the commissioners,
then we'll put it in writing and sort of set it in stone, so you can
begin to make your summer plans, and the staff can begin to
make its budget schedules, as well.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Right, Tom. That's very critical, and I
like our audience to understand that July and August is when
traditionally our staff has an opportunity to take their vacations,
but our budget group in June just really, really has to go night
and day to get this thing ready, and then they have a lot of work
in July, too.
So it's just one of those things that we have to do, and why
don't you run your schedule for us, Tom.
MR. OLLIFF: We're proposing that the budget workshops
continue to be held in the third and/or fourth week of June, which
is traditionally when we hold those, but June 26th, which is the
last Tuesday of the month, would the last board meeting before
the summer break.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
MR. OLLIFF: Then, just for the board's information, that
following June 27th through the 29th is the Florida Association of
Counties Annual Conference in Jacksonville, so some of you
probably need to pencil that in on your calendars, if it's not
already there.
Then, just for our sake, July 15th is when our tentative
budget is released, and that is a result of the workshops that
we've held with you earlier in June, but July 15th is statutorily
the day when we have to produce a public tentative budget.
And I will tell you, and I've talked to each of you individually,
Page 151
January 23, 2001
that our plan is not to produce a full two-inch thick budget again
as a tentative budget because we felt that, frankly, it was
overkill, and we are going to provide a public budget document
as a tentative budget that provides all the funds summaries, the
major changes in the budget, the millage rate changes, and all
that information.
I think, frankly, we can put in a better, more useful format
than that two-inch booklet that we produce.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What's the date of that again,
Tom?
MR. OLLIFF: July 15th. Finally, on July 31st, I'm going to
have to ask you to come back and actually have a board
meeting, which is a Tuesday. It's the last Tuesday in July. That
is a date when we will need to set the tentative millage. The
tentative millage is then what is produced and provided to every
property owner that lets them know, this is the maximum millage
that the board will charge in the upcoming budget.
Once you establish your tentative millage, it cannot go up.
You can go down from that millage rate, but it cannot go up from
that, so it's an important meeting to set that millage.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is that like a 15-minute meeting,
or we're going to be going over the budget?
MR. OLLIFF: We're going to go ahead and schedule a regular
board meeting that--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: It will be a regular board meeting,
Commissioner Henning. Last year, that went fairly quickly
because we were so successful in what we did in June, that by
the time we got to July 31st, I don't think there were half a dozen
people in the room, and we didn't even have any public speakers
because everybody seemed to be very comfortable with what we
had accomplished.
What I would suggest is that like July 29th, you might meet
with people, if there's anything that's coming forward. I've
always just captured that time to kind of wrap up and do things
while I was here in town.
Does that answer your question? My experience in two
years -- I can't remember the year before, but last year was like
an hour meeting.
MR. OLLIFF: And a lot of that is simply because we did a lot
of work in advance with constitutional officers, and that seems
Page 152
January 23, 2001
to be one of the issues that we've historically always had a
problem with. I think last year we just sat down and talked
about it and avoided a lot of that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So, do you have dates for us yet, Tom,
in June, where we start the process? I know June I is the first
point we can start because we've got to wait for Mr. Skinner to
get us the tax rolls.
MR. OLLIFF: The earliest we are going to have the budget
workshop is going to be the third week of June. That's
traditionally when we've had your budget workshops with you,
and it will probably be that week through the 22rid.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Last year I think we had three
meetings within about seven or eight days, if I remember.
MR. OLLIFF: You ended up having three meetings in four
days. You generally have your two full workshop days, and then
it gives us time to go back and make the changes that the board
has made through the workshops. Then we have a wrap-up
session on the fourth day, if necessary.
The last two dates, just for your interest, we are also then
required to have two budget public hearings. Traditionally those
have been Wednesday evening meetings. It looks like -- by
statute we have to have ours after the school board has theirs,
but it does look like, at this point, it would be the first and third
Wednesday of September when we would have an evening
budget public hearing.
And then finally, the only other date that I've got for you
would be September 11th, and that is the proposed first meeting
back from your summer break.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So, will we meet Wednesday evening,
the first and the third, or is that when the school board's
meeting?
MR. OLLIFF: The first and the third week -- the first and the
third Wednesday would be our proposed public hearings.
Assuming this works for you, and I don't see anybody
coming out of their chairs, I think I could go ahead and put all of
this in writing for you and make sure you --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: When is Labor Day?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's the first Monday in
September.
MR. OLLIFF: Monday, September 3.
Page 153
January 23, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So that Wednesday would be our first
evening workshop?
MR. OLLIFF: Yes. September 5th and September 19th. The
only reason I can't confirm those dates with you is that we are
required by statute to have ours after the school board, and they
haven't set their date yet. So, tentatively we're looking at
September 5th and September 19th.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So, let me just review this for my mind
and make sure I'm right. Third week of June we will have our
workshops, then we will come back and set our tentative millage
rate the 31 st of July, and then in September we will have first
and third Wednesday, if it works, is our public hearings, and then
September 11th would be --
MR. OLLIFF: Your first regular board meeting back after the
break.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Board meeting after the break.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But now we can be working all
summer long. Right? We're not -- you've got workshops planned
for us. I mean, we're not going anyplace, right?
MR. OLLIFF: I'm certainly not going to prevent you from
working. You can work straight through the summer.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I might suggest that while some
of us are on vacation that the other ones cover for them, so that
the public is never without a commissioner.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Someone is usually around here. The
month of July, though, traditionally, you won't find many
commissioners here because they generally take that time
because we are in recess. We are officially in recess that month.
There's no public expectation that commissioners will be
present at this commission.
Now, in August, people are in and out, and then by
September, you're going again.
MR. OLLIFF.' Historically, too, the board members have
always made sure that they are in pretty much immediate
availability, only because if there's a hurricane event, for
example, and I need to be able to get hold of commissioners in
order to call some sort of special meeting.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We all have fax machines and numbers
where we can be reached, and we can always be patched in, if
there's these emergencies that come up.
Page154
January 23, 2001
My experience is that it works very well and gives everybody
an opportunity to spend time with their families and catch a
breather before you get back into the accelerated program again,
which you will find takes place early in September.
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, that's all that I have.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Communications from other
commissioners? Mr. Henning, Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Nothing.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, I do, as a matter of fact.
I'm glad you asked. Next -- a week from this Friday, the Collier
County Fair is opening, and that Friday, the 2nd, the 3rd, and the
4th, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, they will be having a food
drive down there at the Fair.
If you bring one can of food, you can get $1 off your
admission to the gate, and it would greatly help a needy cause.
Our food banks are at a low right at the moment. We need all the
help we can get because of the present situation with the
freezes in the field.
Last year was very successful. We're looking for everybody
to partake in this endeavor. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Nothing.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Just one quick thing. Commissioner
Coletta and I participate in the Southwest Florida Regional
Planning Council, and also I sit on the subcommittee up there on
transportation and water.
What we did at the last water meeting was this. We all
concurred that our water usage is driven by ordinances, versus a
management plan. We are working now to make that a
management plan, so that when you have this kind of information
you make decisions on roads, you can have that kind of
information in the future to integrate into your decision-making
with water usage, and we have not been able to do that in the
past. It's been a pretty disjointed effort.
And South Florida Water Management District now
understands what we need to do. And Wayne Daltry (phonetic)
will be back to us, our executive director, within two months to
give us a direction on this.
So I think that's really good news for the whole Southwest
Florida, that finally we're beginning to get into the management
Page 155
January 23, 2001
mode, versus the ordinance mode. And that's all I have.
If everybody's okay. Mr. Olliff?
MR. OLLIFF: I did need to make one note for the record.
The little change, the consentage in the item this morning that
we made, I need to let you know a little more about what that
was, just because it was a very good news item. I didn't have to
opportunity to tell you.
Norman Feeder, as part of his negotiations with WCI,
actually ended up netting the county an additional $440,000 as a
result of that change, and we ended up including cash due from
the developer in that particular agreement of an additional
$440,000 simply by negotiations that he had with the developer
over the course of this past week.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That's great news. And on that, we'll
stand adjourned.
**** Commissioner Mac'Kie moved, seconded by Commissioner
Fiala and carried unanimously, that the following items under the
Consent and Summary Agendas be approved and/or adopted: ****
Item #16A1 - Moved to Item #8A2
Item #16A2
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO RECOGNIZE UNANTICIPATED CABLE
FRANCHISE FEE REVENUE AND FUND SPECIFIC FRANCHISE
ADMINISTRATION PROJECTS
Item #16A3
AUTHORIZATION FOR THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO AMEND
QUORUM REQUIREMENTS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES
ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Item #16A4
FINAL PLAT OF "VALENCIA LAKES, PHASE ONE"-WITH
CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT,
PERFORMANCE SECURITY AND STIPULATIONS
Page 156
January 23, 2001
Item #16A5
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF SEWER UTILITY FACILITIES FOR LELY
RESORT RECLAIMED INFRASTRUCTURE MAINS, PHASES 1, 2 & 3
Item #16A6
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF WATER UTILITY FACILITIES FOR VILLAS
OF CAPRI AND RELEASE OF PERFORMANCE BOND
Item #16A7
RESOLUTION 2001-21, CORRECTING THE SCRIVENER'S ERROR
IN RESOLUTION 2000-455, THE SCHEDULE OF DEVELOPMENT
REVIEW AND BUILDING PERMIT FEES
Item #16B1
WORK ORDER WMI-FT-01-03 WITH WILSONMILLER INC. FOR
PROFESSIONAL SURVEYING SERVICES FOR THE PATHWAYS
2001 PROJECT, PROJECT NO. 69081 - IN THE AMOUNT OF
$35,000
Item #16B2 - Moved to Item #16L2
Item #16B3 - Moved to Item #16L3
Item #16B4
CHANGE ORDER NO. 4 TO CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT #00-3039
WITH WILSONMILLER, INC. FOR GOLDEN GATE BOULEVARD
WIDENING FROM CR 951 TO WILSON BOULEVARD; COLLIER
COUNTY PROJECT NO. 63041, BID NO. 00-3039, CIE NO. 62- IN
THE AMOUNT OF $386,634.45
Item #16B5
APPROVAL OF DE ANGELO BROTHERS, INC. FOR CLAM BAY
CATTAIL REMOVAL, ONE OF THE APPROVED FIRMS FROM RFP
Page 157
January 23, 2001
#00-3125 ANNUAL CONTRACT FOR COUNTYWIDE EXOTIC
VEGETATION REMOVAL, AND REJECT BID #00-3050 FOR CLAM
BAY CATTAIL REMOVAL TO AQUATIC PLANTS OF FLORIDA, INC.
- IN THE AMOUNT OF $107,000
Item #16B6
DEVELOPER CONTRIBUTION AGREEMENT WITH WCI
COMMUNITIES, INC. ("DEVELOPER") FOR THE CONTRIBUTION
OF LAND TO COLLIER COUNTY FOR THE LIVINGSTON ROAD
RIGHT-OF-WAY; PAYMENT ACCEPTED AS SATISFACTION OF THE
DEVELOPER'S OBLIGATION TO FUND THE COST FOR THE
EXPANSION OF THE GOODLETTE-FRANK ROAD OVERPASS
STRUCTURE; AND EXECUTION OF EASEMENTS- WITH
STIPULATIONS AS AMENDED
Item #16Cl
AGREEMENT FOR WATER AND WASTEWATER SERVICE FOR THE
MEDITERRA PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT BETWEEN LONG
BAY PARTNERS, LLC, BONITA SPRINGS UTILITIES, INC. AND
COLLIER COUNTY WATER-SEWER DISTRICT
Item #16C2
CONTRACT C-12250 WITH THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER
MANAGEMENT DISTRICT FOR CONTINUED PARTICIPATION IN
SURFACE WATER QUALITY MONITORING OF BIG CYPRESS
BASIN, COLLIER COUNTY- IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED
$60,000 PER YEAR FOR THREE YEARS
Item #16C3
REJECT BID #00-3042 - PURCHASE OF ONE PORTABLE 500-
GALLON SELF-CONTAINED VACUUM UNIT
Item #16C4
MONTGOMERY WATSON, BLACK & VEATCH AND CDM
ENGINEERS & CONSTRUCTORS, INC. RANKED IN THIS ORDER
Page 158
January 23, 200t
FOR CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT-AT-RISK SERVICES TO
EXPAND THE SOUTH COUNTY WATER RECLAMATION FACILITY,
RFP 00-3171, PROJECT 73949
Item #16D1
COMMUNITY & LIBRARY TECHNOLOGY ACCESS PARTNERSHIP
GRANT AGREEMENT WITH THE STATE OF FLORIDA,
DEPARTMENT OF STATE, DIVISION OF LIBRARY
Item #16D2
BUDGET AMENDMENT RECOGNIZING $2,000 REVENUE FROM A
DONATION FOR A MEMORIAL BENCH
Item #16D3
WAIVE THE FORMAL WORK ORDER DOLLAR LIMIT AND
INCREASE WORK ORDER FOR SURETY CONSTRUCTION
COMPANY (W.O. #SC-00-07) FOR PHASE II(A) OF SUGDEN
REGIONAL PARK - INCREASE IN THE AMOUNT OF $17,902
Item #16D4
CHANGE ORDER #1 WITH JENSEN UNDERGROUND UTILITIES,
INC. IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,498 AND INCREASE IN THE
PURCHASE ORDER AMOUNT (P.O. 006648) FOR THE
CONSTRUCTION OF UNDERGROUND UTILITY WORK AT SUGDEN
REGIONAL PARK
Item #16D5
PURCHASE ORDER TO LIBRARY INTERIORS OF FLORIDA, INC.
NOT TO EXCEED $600,000 AND PURCHASE ORDER TO
ENVIRONETICS NOT TO EXCEED $160,000 FOR FURNITURE
PURCHASES FOR NEW HEADQUARTERS LIBRARY
Item #16E1 - Moved to Item #8E1
Page 159
January 23, 2001
Item #16E2
WAIVE FORMAL COMPETITIVE PROCESS AND AWARD
CONTRACT TO DMG-MAXIMUS TO PERFORM PERSONNEL
CLASSIFICATION STUDY- IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED
$85,000
Item #16E3
MARKETING LICENSE AGREEMENT WITH GENERAL GROWTH
MANAGEMENT, INC. (COASTLAND CENTER} TO CONDUCT
COLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT DAYS EVENT, APRIL 20 AND
21, 2001
Item #16E4
RESOLUTION 2001-22, AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION OF
PURCHASE AGREEMENTS AND STATUTORY DEEDS FOR THE
G.A.C. LAND SALES TRUST CONVEYED TO COLLIER COUNTY BY
AVATAR PROPERTIES INC. (AGREEMENT DATED NOVEMBER 15,
1983), BY THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD FOR THE 2001
CALENDAR YEAR
Item #16E5
RESOLUTION 2001-23, AUTHORIZING THE CHAIRMAN OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO EXECUTE DEEDS AND
AGREEMENTS FOR DEED TO RIGHT OF INTERMENT FOR THE
PURCHASE OF BURIAL LOTS AT LAKE TRAFFORD MEMORIAL
GARDENS CEMETERY, FOR THE 2001 CALENDAR YEAR
Item #16E6
RESOLUTION 2001-24, AUTHORIZING THE CHAIRMAN OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO EXECUTE LIMITED USE
LICENSE AGREEMENTS FOR THE 2001 CALENDAR YEAR
Item #16F1
STATE OF FLORIDA EMS MATCHING GRANT APPLICATIONS FOR
Page 160
January 23, 2001
EQUIPMENT AND TRAINING CLASSES AND FOR THE PURCHASE
AND INSTALLATION OF VEHICLE NAVIGATION AND
INFORMATION SYSTEMS UNITS
Item #16F2
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES 2001 ACHIEVEMENT
AWARD APPLICATION AND FEE IN THE AMOUNT OF $60.00
Item #16G1
PARTIAL REIMBURSEMENT TO THE BAYSHORE MSTU FOR
ADMINISTRATIVE FEES FOR THE BAYSHORE MSTU
BEAUTIFICATION PROJECT - IN THE AMOUNT OF $54,200
Item #16J1
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE - FILED AND/OR REFERRED
The following miscellaneous correspondence, as presented by
the Board of County Commissioners, has been directed to the
various departments as indicated:
Page 161
FOR BOARD ACTION:
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
January 23,2001
1. MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS TO FILE FOR RECORD WITH ACTION AS DIRECTED:
Ao
Bo
Co
Clerk of Courts: Submitted for public record, pursuant to Florida Statutes,
Chapter 136.06(1), the disbursements for the Board of County Commissioners for
the period:
1) December 13, 2000 - December 19, 2000
2) December 20, 2000 - December 26, 2000
3) December 27, 2000 - January 2, 2001
Districts:
1) Golden Gate Fire Control & Rescue District - Agenda for November 8, 2000
meeting
2)
Heritage Greens Community Development District - Minutes of the Board of
Supervisors for July 10, 2000 meeting with attached Resolutions and copy of
Adopted Fiscal Budget for 2001
3) Mediterra South Community Development District - Minutes of Board of
Supervisors September 27, 2000 meeting
Minutes:
1) Golden Gate Beautification Advisory Committee - Agenda for November 14
meeting and Minutes of October 10, 2000 meeting
2)
Rural Fringe Area Assessment Oversight Committee - Agenda for November
8, 2000 and January 3, 2001 meetings, Minutes of September 13 and 27,
October 11 and 25 and December 13, 2000 meetings, Notice for November 8
and 29, 2000 meetings
3) The Collier County Planning Commission - Agenda for November 2, 2000
and January 4, 2001 meetings
4) The Collier County Productivity Committee -Notice for December 14, 2000
meeting
H:Data/Format
5)
The Collier County Forest Lakes Roadway and Drainage Municipal Services
Taxing Unit (MSTU) Advisory Committee - Notice for December 15, 2000
meeting
6) Library Advisory Board - Minutes of October 25, 2000 meeting
7) Lely Golf Estates Beautification Advisory Committee - Agenda for
December 8, 2000 meeting and Minutes of November 9, 2000 meeting
8) Environmental Advisory Council - Agenda for December 6, 2000 meeting
9)
The Building Coalitions with Constituencies Subcommittee of the Community
Health Planning and Finance Committee - Notice for December 20, 2000
meeting
10) Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Meeting - Agenda for December 20,
2000 meeting and Minutes of November 15, 2000 meeting, ReCaps of
November/December 2000, Special Events Calendar for January 2001,
Meeting Schedule for 2001
11) The Beach Renourishment/Maintenane Committee - Agenda for December
19, 2000 meeting
12) .Collier County Airport Authority - Agenda for December 11, 2000 meeting
and Minutes of November 13, 2000
13) Citizens Advisory Task Force Committee - Agenda for April 20, 2000,
December 14, 2000, October 18, 2000 and Minutes of April 20,2000, October
22, 1999, October 18, 2000, December 14, 2000, September 7, 2000, April 20,
2000
Other:
1) City of Naples - Notice for November 2, 2000 Public Meeting and Agenda
for November 2, 2000 meeting
2) Clerk of Circuit Court - General Fund Budget for FY 1999-2000.
H:Data/Format
January 23, 2001
Item #16K1
RESOLUTION 2001-25, ESTABLISHING THE COLLIER COUNTY
ELECTIONS RESOURCE COMMITTEE
Item #16L1
AGREEMENT FOR DISCLOSURE COUNSEL AND LEGAL SERVICES
ON AN "AS NEEDED" BASIS WITH THE LAW FIRM OF BRYANT,
MILLER AND OLIVE, P.A.
Item #16L2 - Moved from Item #16B2
STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT RELATIVE TO THE EASEMENT
ACQUISITION OF PARCEL 136B IN THE LAWSUIT ENTITLED
COLLIER COUNTY V. KENNETH E. DERMA, ET AL (GOLDEN GATE
BOULEVARD PROJECT) - STAFF TO DEPOSIT $8,512 INTO THE
REGISTRY OF THE COURT
Item #16L3 - Moved from Item #16B3
STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT RELATIVE TO THE EASEMENT
ACQUISITION OF PARCEL 136C IN THE LAWSUIT ENTITLED
COLLIER COUNTY V. KENNETH E. DERMA, ET AL (GOLDEN GATE
BOULEVARD PROJECT} - STAFF TO DEPOSIT $8,645 INTO THE
REGISTRY OF THE COURT
Item #17A
RESOLUTION 2001-26, RE PETITION PE-2000-04, ROBERT
LOCKHART, P.E., OF LOCKHART ENGINEERING, INC.,
REPRESENTING ERA REALTY GROUP, REQUESTING PARKING
EXEMPTION APPROVAL FOR FAUST PARKWAY CENTER FOR
OFF-SITE PARKING LOCATED ON 26TM PLACE SW, LOT 29, BLOCK
248, GOLDEN GATE UNIT 7, IN SECTION 28, TOWNSHIP 49
SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST
Item #17B - Moved from Item #12C1
ORDINANCE 2001-01, REGARDING A SCRIVENER'S ERROR
Page 162
January 23, 2001
AMENDMENT TO THE CHAMPION LAKES RV RESORT PUD
AMENDING SECTION 3.4 OF THE PUD DOCUMENT ENTITLED
"PERMITTED USES AND STRUCTURES" TO DELETE THE
WORDING "OR SIMILAR TYPE RECREATIONAL VEHICLE" AND
PROVIDING A DEFINITION FOR "CLASS A MOTOR COACH" FOR A
_P_R0_.P_E_RTY KNOWN AS CHAMPION LAKES RV RESORT PUD
There bein9 no further business for the 9ood of the County.
the meetin9 was adjourned by order of the Chair at 3:00 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMIVIISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS
CONTROL
JAMES D.xCARTER, PH.D., CHAIRMAN
ATTEST:
DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK
he~i'ndtes approved by the Board on
as presented .. ~ ~ or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING BY: ROSE M. WITT AND TONi SHEARER
Page 163