Minutes 03/09/1983 AGENDA
EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
Meeting of March 9 , 1983
I . Roll Call
II . Reading and/or approval of minutes
a ) Regular meeting of February 10 , 1983
III . Advisors Reports
IV . Old Business
V . New Business
VI . Adjourn
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Naples , Florida March 9 , 1983
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Emergency Medical Services
Advisory Council met on this date at 4 :00 P .M. in Room 144 ,
Bldg "F" or the Courthouse Complex with the following members
as indicated below:
CHAIRMAN: Egon Hill
MEMBERS : Dr. Hanns Erhardt
Sgt. Richard Davidson (Excused)
Chief Jim Billman (Excused)
David Graham
Marvin Cecil
W. H. "Biff" Comte
Richard Akin (Excused)
Jonathan Smelko
Wm. Shaughnessy
EX-OFFICIO MEMBERS : Chief Norris Ijams
E. G. Whidden for (Excused)
Sheriff Rogers
STAFF ADVISORS : Ann Foster
Douglas Greenfield
W. Neil Dorrill
Dr Robert Tober (Absent)
ALSO PRESENT: Sharon Aragona, for Richard Akin, "Skip"
Camp, EMS, Jack Wampler, EMS Billings, Wm. Beschen, Rich Gibbons,
and Billie Moyer.
AGENDA
I . Roll Call
II . Reading and/or approval of minutes
a) Regular meeting of February 10 , 1983
III . Advisors Reports
IV. Old Business
V. New Business
VI . Adjourn
EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
March 9, 1983
MINUTES APPROVED
There being no additions or deletions, the Minutes of the
meeting of the Emergency Medical Services Advisory Council held
on February 10, 1983 were approved as submitted.
ADVISORS REPORTS
Mr. Dorrill reported he had received a request from the owner
of Ambassador Airlines, Inc. to recommend that the Board of County
Commissioners extend his Air-Ambulance Certificate of Need and
Necessity for one year . Explaining that since the Certificate was
provided them last October the State (HRS) had changed their rules
regarding air-ambulance licensure and EMS activities in general
making their State Certificate good for 2 years, instead of the one
year period provided by the County.
Mr. Dorrill further explained that the $250 . fee has already
been paid and that it was simply a matter of extending the license
renewal date from September 1983 to September of 1984 , without any
additional cost, and said he felt it would be prudent to ask the
Council to act on this request today.
Mr. Graham made a motion to go along with the request. Motion
seconded.
Dr. Ehrhardt felt the Council should not get involved at all
because they had been "passed by" in the first place . Mr. Hill did
not agree, stating he saw no objection to going before the Board and
asking that this request be granted. The motion was passed by a
majority.
DR. JAMES MELI CONSIDERED FOR NEXT ,VACANCY:
Mr . Dorrill introduced a letter for the record written by Dr . Cox
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March 9 , 1983
recommending that Dr. James Meil, Chief of Clinics of Collier County,
be considered for the next vacancy on the EMSAC.
Mr. Hill said he had contacted Dr. Meli, who is going to send
his resume to Grace Spaulding and it will be up to the Commissioners
to do the rest.
LEGISLATIVE WORKSHOP/ISSUES ADDRESSED:
Doug Greenfield reported on the issues addressed at the Florida
Association of County Medical Services Special Legislative Workshop
held in Clearwater which he had attended on February 24-25 . The
items discussed were:
1 . Confidentiality of Trip Records - (generated after each call)
2. EVOC Driving Program - (introduced by legislature in 1982
as a requirement for EMS certification)
3 . Non-emergency Transportation - "Who Wants it?"
4 . Air-ambulances - "What is it and are Separate Laws Needed?"
5 . EMS Funding Bill - (resurrection of the Panhandle Bill) "Should
This be Continued?"
6 . High-Hazard Pay for EMT' s and Paramedics
7 . Urban Hospitals - (overcrowded, overworked, with indigent care
hospital-patient problem being experienced in some of the
larger urban areas . Some hospitals are not accepting
indigent patients)
8 . DPR vs HRS vs the Insurance Commissioners - "The Battle Begins"
Mr. Hill asked what the Panhandle Bill is and Mr . Greenfield
explained about the EMS Trust Fund which is monies collected from
fines on all moving violations - DWI , speeding, etc . , which is gathered
up annually and distributed back to the counties and earmarked for EMS
from which a certain amount was to be used for research. Doug said
that the first concept of the bill was good but that it was defeated
because people could not agree on how to split the money or how the
research was going to be done. Everyone felt individual entities
didn 't have enough opportunity for 'input at the legislative level on
this bill - no one really knows what happened to it and why it died
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March 9, 1983
he said, but the HRS Chairman is aware of it and tried to get it
reintroduced into legislation this year . Mr. Hill asked how far
it went last year and Doug replied that it hadn 't even made it out
of the House. He went on to say that State Representative Elaine
Gordon, one of the spearheads who was behind the move to put the
certification and licensing program under DPR, had for some reason
dropped out of the picture, which he believed might prove to be in
our favor down the road.
CONFIDENTIALITY OF TRIP RECORDS :
Doug pointed out that every locality has different ways of
dealing with this problem and said that government based systems
feel that the Sunshine Law allows the media to go through patient
records on transports any time they chose, which sometimes reveals
quite sensitive information, such as in cases involving a homocide
or potential for litigation for a malpractice suit. He said he had
examined some of the alternatives and will have to meet with the
County Attorney and decide how to handle them. He spoke of the "fine
line" between privileged information, which belongs to the physician
and patient, and of the governmental or public information concerning
the actual agencies and their activities .
Mr. Hill asked Neil Dorrill to discuss this with the County
Attorney.
Giving an example of one of the complexities which occurs , Doug
explained that a paramedic, in his pre-diagnosis upon observation, will
put down what he first encounters and thinks he sees . If a person
appears to be intoxicated, he might put down "patient apparently ETOH,
alcohol on breath, etc . Yet, this patient may not have been intoxi-
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March 9, 1983
cated, and information such as this when released to the media in
the early investigative stages of a court case will result in the
patient being convicted by the media and the public before it ever
gets a chance to go to trial, adding that this can be far expanded
in the case of a malpractice suit. Mr . Graham pointed out that even
so, since this is a County operation, these are public records.
Mr. Greenfield agreed, but said this was true only insofar as response
time and address information was concerned, and that the personabl
patient encounter information is where the fine line has to be drawn.
He said he had tried to set up our trip tickets where the bottom
copy, on which the paramedic makes his analysis, is actually a patient
chart form which is given to the hospital, and a section providing
response time, patient address, etc . can be cut off and given to the
media.
EVOC COURSE:
Describing the EVOC driving school as a 40-hr course, having
16 hrs of class and an additional 24-26 hrs of field clinical time
behind the wheel in all kinds of fabricated situations and being
taught by specialized instructors, Mr . Greenfield said this program,
if mandated by the State this year, would be very expensive. It
would mean that every person who gets behind the wheel of an ambu-
lance or is capable of getting behind the wheel of an ambulance, in-
cluding every firefighter and firefighter EMT in the County who might
at some time get behind the wheel of one of our units to get to the
hospital would be required to take the course .
Among the 33 counties represented, the consensus was that none
were having problems with their systems concerning the need for more
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advanced driving skills. When asked who was sponsoring the bill and
why it was so important to have a 40 hr program, the new Director of
HRS could not answer. It was agreed that we would ask legislature
to curtail this commitment for at least one more year and study what
the needs are that require a 40 hr program. It was suggested that
a more moderate program such as a 16 hr program - 8 hrs class and
8 hrs clinical - be developed to meet the needs of the community
served, with EMS in Tallahassee setting up the guidelines developing
the standards to meet driving certification requirements .
Mr. Greenfield added that Tallahassee wants each locality to
be responsible for certification of their own drivers and seeing that
all standards are met, including carrying of an identification card
at all times so it is available for inspectors when they come around.
Mr. Hill asked what the requirements were for qualification as
driver in the City of Naples Fire Department. Chief Ijams said that
each takes an annual defensive driving course which he feels is ade-
quate. He recalled that the State had instigated programs in the
past with the idea that they would fund them, but they did not and it
became the obligation of the local government. He added that the
whole fire fighting training system is supposed to be State funded,
but it is not.
Doug stated he has never been satisfied with the "rubber stamped"
defensive driving course, which doesn't require any behind-the-wheel
operation of a vehicle and stressed the importance of good orientation
to different types of vehicles, regardless of sizes. He felt he could
accomplish this in 16 hours, but would need funding to even do that and
said he would wait to see what Tallahassee comes back with in April .
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He mentioned he wanted to make everyone aware that we have nothing
concrete to look at and that even doing a cross-study on it would be
frivolous .
NON-EMERGENCY TRANSPORTATION:
Doug said that Tallahassee was asking whether or not they need
to govern non-emergency transport services, intending to add their
own input to that received from different localities, which would then
be forwarded to the board for submission to the governor as a committee .
He further said he had no feeling about this one way or the other,
since we have a local ordinance which covers it and from his personal
observation, the strength of the local ordinance depends on the fact
that state HRS does have a governing standard for wheel-chair vehicles
and non-emergency transport vehicles which have to be met on a basic
standard. If this would be removed, he said, we would additionally
have to find our own ability to actually go out and inspect these
people and drivers and make sure standards were maintained and this
would not be financially advantageous to the locality.
AIR-AMBULANCES :
Doug said the air-ambulance laws were outdated before they were
finished, one of the problems being that if all the conditions were
met, there would be no place for the pilot to sit. He asked for
input on the situation which would help the new Director, Larry Jordan,
because State, at this point, is wondering whether or not they should
even be involved in it. He mentioned that he had no input, since
whenever he had needed an air-ambulance provider in the past, one of
our own people had ridden with them and used our own equipment, so
he had never had a problem.
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HIGH-HAZARD PAY FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT:
Stating this is a concern to anyone who wants to make a career
out of being an EMT or paramedic, Doug mentioned that retirement
systems vary from one locality to another, but thought it was about
35 years in the County.
Neil Dorrill reported that the FL State Retirement System, of
which this county and all non-chartered counties are eligible for,
requires that an individual work at least 10 years before they become
vested and have vested rights at a minimum level , with a host of
provisions for early retirement beginning at age 55, and benefits
can vary with different options available . He added that the average
age of our work force is in the 20 's so 35 years is a good average
number of years someone would have to work in order to receive
retirement benefits.
Doug 's concern was that new employees were coming into the
system from the fire industry thinking the same benefits would
apply, only to realize later they will retire at a lower scale and
will have to work longer, adding that the injury rate is much higher .
Explaining that Workmen' s Comp claims in EMS are outrageous relative
to back injuries caused by falls, climbing rigs, grabbing equipment,
and handling patients, he described the paramedic ' s role as a "young
man 's sport" lasting as long as the back held out, and said that few
people could start at age 20 and plan to retire in the field 35 years
later. For this reason, he said, we should consider being classified
similar to that of police and firefighters.
Mr. Hill asked if police and firefighters received high-hazard
pay. Doug replied that they were in a different category, which
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March 9, 1983
allows them to retire at an earlier age and also be eligible for
different career benefits which we are ineligible for at this time.
DPR vs HRS vs INSURANCE COMMISSIONERS :
Doug reported that the Insurance Commissioner had not been
included in the Auditor General 's final report to the legislature,
and as far as they are concerned he is not their choice for licensing
and certification but that he has apparently decided to take on the
battle himself. He added that we are not getting into it at this
time.
A cost study done by DPR, Doug reported, showed a difference in
the cost of licensing and certification alone to be approximately
$400,000 more than charged by HRS for handling the whole program,
which includes also governing it and inspecting it.
Mr . Hill asked if this meant that HRS is more efficient, to
which Mr. Greenfield answered, "No, the problem is their lack of
efficiency. " Mr. Hill agreed that from his observation of HRS , he
was not very much impressed .
Dr. Ehrhardt asked what opinions had been received by Mr . Dorrill 's
office reference input from EMSAC members . Billie Moyer reported that
she had received only three (3) phone calls, one from Dr. Ehrhardt,
who felt it should be left with HRS , and said he had found by reading
that even HRS favored the transfer to DPR, feeling they are not in
good enough shape to handle the program. Mr . Smelko called to say he
felt it should be left as it is, and Mr . Akin had said we would be
better off not to be a part of HRS, and favored DPR.
SPECIAL TASK FORCE:
Chief Ijams reported that work is continuing but he did not
have any specific points to bring up at this time . He said the
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March 9, 1983
weekly meetings are running a little over 2 hrs and that Mr. Dorrill
and the County Manager are still anticipated to attend the meeting
of April 1st. He said Doug Greenfield had spent a hard 2 hrs with
the force on two or three occasions and provided a lot of infor-
mation the committee needed and appreciated. He reported that get-
ting into every aspect of the study takes a lot of time but that
things were progressing very well.
Mr. Hill said the ultimate aim of the task force is to find out
what we are doing, whether or not it is correct, and if it can be
improved on or changed, and added that we have three outside "consul-
tants" who are really superior in their knowledge of what we are
seeking. He said that as Chairman of EMSAC, he was required by the
By-laws to be a part of every sub-committee and has not missed a
meeting so far. Mr. Dorrill was invited to attend whenever he is
able, and it was made plain by Mr. Hill that anyone else who wished
to attend was welcome.
Norris Ijams referred to a concern for provisions related to
the Sunshine Law and explained this as the reason the Chairman was
announcing the sequence of meetings . Mr . Hill said he had talked to
the County Attorney and that we had satisfied the Sunshine Law.
Doug asked Mr . Hill to read the copy of the Workshop Agenda and
make it available to other members to read, stating that the new
HRS Director had addressed many complaints picked up from the State
of Florida during the past year, evaluating each one and asking what
had been done toward improvement.
NEW BUSINESS
VIAL OF LIFE:
Mr. Greenfield introduced Mr. Wm. Beschen, who has donated
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March 9 , 1983
several items of specialized equipment to EMS in the past to be
used for training purposes including a quite expensive bio-manual
blood pressure cuff and pulse monitoring device which is used in
helicopter transports .
Mr. Beschen and his wife have been interested in the Vial-of-
Life program for several years and have improved on the procedure
in many ways. Instead of the tube containing only limited infor-
mation, which is to be taped or strapped with a rubber band inside
your refrigerator, Mr. & Mrs . Beschen devised a tube which attaches
firmly to the outside of the refrigerator with a magnet, and contains
three (3) color-coded forms; #1 gives personal information, #2 con-
tains medical information, and #3 contains information related to
physician or hospital preference, request for Priest, minister or
Rabbi, and a notarized authorization to allow EMS transport and
stabilization. Two tubes are provided, one to be kept in the glove
compartment of a car and the other on the refrigerator door . Stickers
are included which go on the inside upper right-hand corner of the
front door to alert EMT's to look for the tube on the refrigerator
door.
Mr. Beschen explained that he was not here to sell the County
tubes, since he earns his living as a writer, but that this has
simply been a pet project for him and his wife, who is a former EMT.
He proposed to Doug that they provide tubes to high-schools, at cost,
and the tubes then be promoted by the school children in a door-to-
door effort. A set of tubes, magnets, instructions, 8 color-coded
forms could be sold for $1 .50 , with 50 going for a band drive,
uniforms, or whatever, and the other $1 . 00 going into a fund for
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March 9, 1983
EMS to be used for training programs, equipment, etc. Mr. Greenfield
was very enthusiastic.
COLLECTIONS UP AGAIN IN FEBRUARY:
Jack Wampler reported that February was the best month we have
had. Collections were $54 ,776, billings were $74 ,439. Percentage
was 70 .3%, cumulative total 59 . 6% since April of 1981 . He mentioned
that we had also participated in a survey with 15 other counties
re billings and collections and we had matched or exceeded 11 of
these counties . He reported our collection percentage to be about
63% since last October. Mr. Dorrill said that at this point, on
a month-to-month basis, we are exceeding the anticipated revenues
about 5 to 7% over what we had set for our goal. Mr . Hill said he
always likes to keep up on collections because he is interested in
proving to the Board that we are making an all out effort and don't
have to ask the taxpayers for funds too often.
COLLIER COUNTY TO BE HOST FOR FACEMS CONFERENCE :
Doug reported that Collier County had been selected as the host
for the 3rd quarter FACEMS conference this year in June and that he
will be doing all the footwork in setting up for the event. He
said the date has not been set, but that he is going to try for the
Marriott on Marco and has sent flyers to members asking if they
would like a particular topic to be included in the agenda for dis-
cussion. He mentioned that a potential guest speaker was going to
talk on either accounts receivable management or vehicle specifi-
cations vs new federal specification guidelines . The Florida Associ-
ation of County Emergency Medical-Services (FACEMS) meeting will
last for three (3) days, and the organization encompasses 33 counties .
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March 9, 1983
EMS AMBULANCE INSPECTIONS :
Ann Foster reported that the EMS ambulances have all had their
mid-year inspections and had passed by either meeting or exceeding
the standards .
DR. TOBER UNABLE TO ATTEND MEETINGS :
Chief Ijams recalled that a specific effort was to have been
made to have Dr. Tober attend meetings and was informed by both
Mr. Dorrill and Mr. Hill that in contacting Dr. Tober they found
this to be next to impossible due to Dr . Tober 's busy schedule at
the hospital. Chief Ijams said he has been in contact with Dr. Tober
both by letter and telephone .
MARCH 20-26 - EMS WEEK:
Doug Greenfield mentioned that the Governor has announced that
March 20-26 is EMS Week and that "Skip" Camp has already made arrange-
ments to set up a display at Coastland Mall . Publicity will be given
by both the news media and TV networks .
APRIL MEETING:
Meeting date will remain the second Wednesday of the month, at
4 :00 P.M. , in Room 144 until we can make better arrangements . The
next meeting will be held on April 13 , 1983 .
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the Council,
the meeting was adjourned at 5 :40 P.M.
MINUTES PREPARED BY: Billie Moyer
Egon Hill, Chairman
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DATE : March 2 , 1983
TO : EMSAC MEMBERS
FROM: W . Neil Dorrill , Public Safety Administrator
SUBJECT : NOTICE OF MARCH REGULAR MEETING
Be advised that the next regular meeting of the Emergency
Medical Services Advisory Council will be held on
WEDNESDAY , March 9 , 1983
Bldg "F" - Room 144 4 : 00 P .M .
If for any reason you will be unable to attend , please
notify my office (774-8468) or Chairman Hill (261 -0569 )
so that your absence will be considered as excused .
A REMINDER : The meeting day for the EMSAC has again been
changed and will now be held on the second WEDNESDAY of
the month .
WND/bm
Attachment : Agenda
MEMORANDUM
DATE: March 22, 1983
TO: EMSAC MEMBERS
FROM: W. Neil Dorrill/Public Safety Administrator
SUBJECT: Minutes of Meeting
In accompaniment please find copy of Minutes of the
regular meeting held on March 9 , 1983 . Please review
these in order that they can be adopted at the next meet-
ing to be held on Wednesday, April 13, 1983 at 4 : 00 P .M.
in the Emergency Operations Center, Room 144 , in Bldg "F" .
WND/bm
cc : C. William Norman, County Manager
Grace Spaulding/ Administrative Aide