Minutes 02/10/1983 Naples, Florida February 10 , 1983
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that e Emergency Medical Services
Advisory Council met on this date at 4 : 00 P .M. in the 5th Floor
Conference Room, Building "F" of the Courthouse Complex with
the following members as indicated below:
CHAIRMAN: Egon Hill
MEMBERS : Dr. Hanns Erhardt
Sgt. Richard Davidson
Chief Jim Billman
David Graham (Absent)
Marvin Cecil (Excused)
W. H. "Biff" Comte (Excused)
Richard Aiken (represented by Sharon
Aragona)
Wm. Shaughnessy
Jonathan Smelko
EX-OFFICIO MEMBERS : Chief Norris Ijams
Dr . John Adams for (Excused)
Dr. Wm. Cox
E . G. Whidden for
Sheriff Rogers
STAFF ADVISORS : Dr. John Adams (Excused)
Douglas Greenfield
Dr. Robert Tober (Absent)
W. Neil Dorrill
ALSO PRESENT: Jack Wampler, EMS Billing, Dr. Elizabeth Handley,
and Billie Moyer.
AGENDA
I . Roll Call
II . Reading and/or approval of minutes
a) Regular meeting of January 10 , 1983
III . Advisors Reports
IV. Old Business
V. New Business
VI . Adjourn
EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
February 10 , 1983
MINUTES APPROVED
Per Dr . Ehrhardt ' s request, the Minutes of the Regular
Meeting of January 11 , 1983 were adjusted to read as follows :
Page 6 , Paragraph 6 -
"Dr. Ehrhardt suggested that the committee should not
decide as to the frequency of the meetings today, but should
be given time to think it over. Furthermore, the Council should
request especially the attendance of the ex-officio members
because their absence has a degrading effect upon members who
attend voluntarily. "
ADVISORS REPORTS
AUDITOR GENERAL REPORT ON EMS
Mr. Greenfield reported on the letter received from the
President of the Florida Association of Emergency Medical Systems
(FACETS) reference to legislature 's adoption of 10D-66 this year
and recommendations from various agencies as to what should be
done concerning licensing and certification procedures . A request
had been made of the State Auditor General to research the EMS
role under HRS with a recommendation as to whether or not they
were, in fact, the most appropriate agency to carry out the EMS
licensing function. Mr . Greenfield mentioned there has been dis-
satisfaction over the past 10 years with their ability in the
field to do the testing, etc. One recommendation the legislative
body had the Auditor General look at was the Department of Pro-
fessional Regulation. In addition, Mr. Greenfield said , the
Fire Chief 's Association evidently had some lobbying to include
the State Insurance Commissioner ' s Office in the investigation;
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February 10 , 1983
resulting in three (3) potential agencies which might end up
with certification and licensing responsibility. This function
could either remain with HRS , be handled by the Department of
Professional Regulation, or in the Insurance Commissioner ' s
office, in his capacity as the State Fire Marshall .
Mr. Greenfield felt that each of these agencies had its
own merit and said that after attending several group discussions
throughout the state and weighing the merits of each, he believed
the firefighters ' strongest concern on the issue is that they
would like to see EMS come out of the small , unrecognized module
type of atmosphere it has in Tallahassee and get into a position
where it can be raised to a bureau status . That in itself had
created a lot of discussion within the EMS Provider ' s Association
in the state , Mr . Greenfield added, and pointed out that the
greatest weakness noticed by those who have been working with HRS
over the last decade is their position in government structure .
Even though some pretty good laws have been passed by the legis-
lature recognizing EMS , Mr . Greenfield said, the laws did not
give them the funding needed to carry out their responsibilities .
Mr . Greenfield mentioned that various alternatives had been
looked at and that the State Fire Commissioner felt there will
not be any licensure fees (certification or recertification fees
for EMT ' s or paramedics) and that a lot of things such as fire
inspections, will fall under the present criteria. The Provider 's
Association for the State of Florida EMS is made up of all facets
of EMS providers; private, governmental , third-party services , and
fire departments , Mr . Greenfield said .
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EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
February 10 , 1983
Mr. Greenfield said he had attended a meeting in Jacksonville
on the 21st of January and that a representative of DPR had been
present with the completed Auditor General 's report. A copy of
this report was handed out to members by Mr. Greenfield, and each
member was asked to look over and think about the Auditor General 's
opinion that licensure and certification go to DPR because they
have the manpower, the expertise and facilities to really take
over this activity, and leave the administration of EMS to HRS .
The HRS response is included in this secondary summary and the group
indicated that they supported the Auditor General ' s findings at
this time and they don ' t mind going in that direction. However,
they want to make certain the legislature understands that this
is the limit to what they will let go concerning certification .
HRS definitely wants to maintain control of the administration
of EMS from a state perspective .
Mr. Greenfield pointed out that the first page of the intro-
duction is an actual proposal of the Executive Board of EMS Pro-
viders and that it does not recognize the Auditor General ' s recom-
mendation but rather the feelings of the majority of EMS providers
in the State of Florida, which is made up mostly of firefighters .
He added that a poll had indicated a 3-1 decision that licensing
and certification should remain under HRS and that they have made
recommendations for changes which they would like to present to
the legislature .
Mr . Greenfield said there didn 't seem to be anything going
on in Tallahassee right now but that Elaine Gordon is still
battling to see that this is given to DPR.
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EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
February 10 , 1983
Mr. Greenfield said he would be meeting with our State
Association on February 24th & 25th, along with the new HRS
Director and a special physician brought in from Tallahassee
who will be lobbying it and stated he would like to be able to
go to them with some idea of the feelings of the members of
EMSAC.
Mr. Greenfield read the proposal of the Executive Board,
commenting on the proposal of the development of an equitable
fee structure for all EMS providers to provide adequate funding
for the other proposals made. He said that this is another item
which private concerns have been battling since last June be-
cause under current 401 provisions which were approved in June,
fire departments , municipalities and government-run systems had
no fees . For the first time, Mr . Greenfield said, we did not
have to pay for a license renewal , but a private agency had to
pay upwards of $600 . Remarking that he had his own feelings in
this matter, he said he would like to have the feelings of others
and asked if anyone wanted to have a special meeting after they
had a chance to digest this . It was agreed that rather than have
a special meeting, the members were to call the Public Safety
office with their opinions, which would be passed on to Mr. Greenfield .
PROTOCOL IN HANDLING CONSUMER COMPLAINTS :
It was agreed that the subject of protocol in handling cus-
tomer complaints regarding service or fees should be discussed at
a time when Dr. Tober, the Medical Director, could be present and
Mr . Dorrill was asked to make an urgent plea for him to attend the
next meeting . Doug Greenfield stated that HRS has provided us
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EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
February 10 , 1983
clarification and written documentation of Chapter 401 and
10D-66 , adding that we cannot deal effectively with the issues
of protocol unless we ourselves are familiar with the laws . He
stated that the next meeting he would provide every member with
a copy of the current Chapter 401, 10D-66 .
REPORT ON COLLECTIONS :
Mr . Wampler reported that the January collections were
63 .3% - almost a percent higher than the month before, and that
the overall collections since the start of 1981 is now approaching
60% (58 . 9%) and rising steadily. He added that the January bill-
ings were the highest since the beginning of this fiscal year,
($77 , 901) and that it looks as though we will exceed this amount
in February. He also said that the collections were coming in
very well. Mr . Hill remarked that he was extremely pleased with
the job the EMS billing department is doing.
Mr . Shaughnessy asked how long a bill was kept on the books
before writing if off and Mr. Wampler informed him that a public
debt cannot legally be written off . He explained that bills are
on a 90 day cycle, that is , the 1st bill is sent out immediately,
the second after 30 days , a phone call is made at 45 days, a 60-day
notice is sent, followed by a 75-day notice and a 90-day notice,
after which it is either placed with a collection agency, put on a
time-payment system, or held. Mr . Shaughnessy asked what percent
of the bills go into a holding pattern after 90 days and Mr Wampler
told him this was difficult to say, since sometimes it takes some
estates a long time to pay off . He added that the uncollectable
area probably amounts to about 25% .
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EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
February 10 , 1983
NEW BUSINESS
TASK FORCE COMMITTEE REPORT:
Mr . Hill asked for a report from Norris Ijams , Chairman,
on the findings of the Task Force Committee nominated to study
the rate structures and operations of our EMS system and those
of other counties in the area and mentioned that we had been
fortunate in getting the services of Dr. Elizabeth Handley, R.N. ,
who has not only a PHD in Administration, but is a Lt . Colonel
in the Air Force, Retired.
Mr . Ijams reported that the group had not only been meeting
once a week, but that some members had been riding with the EMS
Supervisor in order to become familiar with the service we are
concerned with. Mr . ,Ijams felt that by getting to know the "nuts
and bolts" of the whole operation, disecting it, and then putting
it back together again, we would better be able to know if this
is really what we want.
Chief Ijams explained that this is a monumental task and that
"we have only scraped the tip of the iceberg" and asked the con-
sideration of the entire committee in being patient while waiting
for the results . He also assured the members that the Task Force
Committee realizes they are not an investigating group, but merely
a study group, and as such is well aware of their limitations . He
stated that they will not get out of the bounds of restriction,
which they are following according to County guidelines and the
laws they are governed by and will stay within their area of author-
ity and responsibility.
Mr. Hill noted that he had attended some of the meetings as
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EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
February 10 , 1983
an observer and was well pleased with what he had seen. He
also said he had ridden with the EMS Supervisor once and found
it very interesting and informative . Mr . Hill recommended that
anyone who was able should also do this, since it will help them
get a different perspective of what the EMS is doing. Doug
Greenfield asked that anyone wishing to do so should call his
office to make arrangements .
MEETING DAY CHANGED - AGAIN:
Mr . Dorrill mentioned that the recent change from Tuesday to
Thursday for EMSAC meetings had posed a problem to some members
and it was agreed that the second WEDNESDAY of the month would be
more suitable .
NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting of the EMSAC will be held on Wednesday,
March 9 , 1983 , at 4 : 00 P .M. in the Fifth Floor Conference Room.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the Council ,
the meeting was adjourned at 5 : 40 P .M.
Egon Hill , Chairman
Minutes Prepared by: Billie Moyer
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