Minutes 10/12/1982 Naples , Florida October 12 , 1982
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LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Emergency Medical Services
Advisory Council met on this date at 4 :00 P.M. in the Fifth Floor
Conference Room, Building "F" of the Courthouse Complex with the
following members as indicated below:
CHAIRMAN: Egon Hill
MEMBERS : Jan Fillinger (Absent)
Dr. Hanns Ehrhardt
Sgt. Richard Davidson (Absent)
Chief Jim Billman (Absent)
Mr. David Graham
Mr. Marvin Cecil (Excused)
Mr. Biff Comte
Mr. Richard Akin (Excused)
EX-OFFICIO MEMBERS : Chief Norris Ijams
Dr. John Adams for
Dr. Wm. Cox
C. G. Whidden for (Excused)
Sheriff Rogers
STAFF ADVISORS : Dr. John Adams
Douglas Greenfield
Dr. Robert Tober (Absent)
W. Neil Dorrill
ALSO PRESENT: Karen Coccio, Joan Hamilton, Michael Jones,
and Billie Moyer
AGENDA
I. Roll Call
II. Reading and/or approval of minutes
a) Regular meeting of August 10, 1982
III . Advisors Reports
IV. Old Business
V. New Business
a) Certificate of Necessity and Convenience - Air Ambulance,
Ambassador Airway, Inc
(Neil Dorrill)
VI. Adjourn
EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
October 12 , 1982
APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF AUGUST 12 , 1982 :
Minutes of the meeting of August 10 , 1982 were approved to
include the following amendments :
Page 2/Paragraph 1 - changed to read: Dr. Ehrhardt remarked,
"Is it not surprising that we have such an increase in our collec-
tion rate despite the increase in charges. "
Page 2/Paragraph 2 - to include the County Manager's correction
that: "While the Board does not have a specific policy requiring
that we collect a certain amount, it specifies that the amount of
40% of EMS revenue does come from User' s Charges as a result of the
adopted budget. "
ADVISORS REPORTS:
Mr. Dorrill reported the adoption of an Emergency Ordinance
allowing the Board of County Commissioners to continue to have a
regulatory capacity relating to non-emergency transport service.
This , he said, came about as a result of our becoming aware of two
particular non-emergency transport services based in Ft Myers now
operating here and/or advertising locally the availability of their
services. Upon learning of this, Mr. Dorrill stated, we immediately
contacted Dr. Adams , our local HRS representative, as well as the
State HRS Licensure Division and complained that these services were
violating state regulations as well as county regulations . Recognizing
that the State had elected as of October 1 to no longer regulate non-
emergency transports as is related to obtaining a Board authorized Cer-
tificate of Convenience and Necessity, we elected through the County
Attorney 's office to make this a requirement in order to operate in this
county. Mr. Dorrill said that in addition to meeting the requirements of
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EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
October 12 , 1982
our existing EMS Ordinance 81. 75, a satisfactory petition including
information as outlined in this Ordinance must be submitted to his
office for his review after which he will subsequently make recom-
mentation to the Board of County Commissioners .
Recalling that the meeting of September 21 was not held because
we had no quorom, Mr. Dorrill advised that a discussion had been
held among those present relating to a petition received from
Ambassador Airways, Inc. to establish the first air-ambulance service
in Collier County. Mr. Dorrill said that recognizing that we had
already twice postponed the petition after accepting an application
fee of $250 , and realizing that EMS Ordinance does not require the
Emergency Medical Services Advisory Council to review the petition,
he at his discretion felt it would be appropriate to forward it to
the Board for their action. It was unanimously adopted and the
service is now licensed to operate in Collier County.
Doug Greenfield said the owner had come to his office after the
inspection to report the lack of some equipment required by the State
for BLS and had asked to borrow this equipment from the County until
he was able to purchase his own. Mr. Greenfield said he told the
owner he did not think this was the way the State intended it to be
whereupon the owner returned to Dr. Adams who furnished him with the
name of a vendor. Doug added that he had not seen the owner since
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that time.
Dr. Adams advised that until such time as the required equipment
was obtained, the owner is still not licensed to transport anyone
from this county on a frequent basis, but that he does not need a
license to transport into this county.
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EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
October 12 , 1982
Dr. Ehrhardt made a motion that for the record it be stated
that EMSAC had no chance to advise on this petition because the
BCC has already acted in granting the Certificate. Mr. Hill asked
that this be recorded as part of the minutes but did not feel it
was necessary to vote on it.
Doug Greenfield stated there seemed to be some discrepency in
the Emergency Ordinance with the item concerning conflict and sever-
ability mentioned on the last page - Section 26 in relation to
correlation with the existing County Ordinance and recommended that
some research be made on it.
Mr. Dorrill said that the actual Ordinance was prepared in its
emergency nature by the County Attorney and that he would be happy
to report back to the Council at the next meeting if a discrepency
were found which required Board action.
A lengthy discussion began at this point regarding the petition
from Ambassador Airways, Inc. , with Mr. Graham objecting strenuously
to its having been "rushed through for no apparent reason" and asking
to go on record as stating that he sees it as an "unwarranted intru-
sion on private industry, since we are not dealing with emergency
vehicles here, but with taxis. " He further stated that he felt
someone was trying to hide something by not allowing the EMSAC to
review and discuss it before going before the Board.
Mr. Dorrill reminded Mr. Graham that this particular advisory
council does not have the right under the existing Ordinance to
review a Certificate of Need and Necessity, since the State law
provides that this is up to the sole discretion of the Board of
County Commissioners and added that in this case it is not legis-
lature but merely a petition to operate in this county.
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EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
October 12 , 1982
Mr. Graham said he was concerned about the County regulating
an industry for no other reason than to regulate it and remarked
that he has a basic dislike for government getting into private
industry because any time this happens the cost goes up and the
efficiency goes down and added that he saw no reason for ambulance
service for non-emergency transports when a public service such as a
taxi could do as well , and cheaper.
Mr. Hill asked that another topic be addressed at this point.
The discussion continued however when Doug Greenfield asked to
speak on the comment made by Mr. Graham referring to "something
shady being pulled. " He said he had made an emergency petition to
the Board for support of special legislature in June of this year
to have a continuation of Chapter 401 and that although this was
decided on June 21st, we did not get our new rules from the Senate
(Senate Bill 19H) until the end of July. It was in reading this
Bill , Doug said , that he learned it was to be state-wide in all coun-
ties that these particular agencies would no longer be regulated at
the local level and a meeting was arranged between himself , Neil Dorrill,
Mr. Norman, and the County Attorney. We asked the County Attorney if
the existing local Ordinance and Need and Necessity requirements , refer-
ring to one particular paragraph, protected this County from anyone
coming in here and setting up shop with non-emergency transport vehicles .
It was the feeling of the County Manager, under the section where the
Ordinance identified those who would be exempt of having to acquire a
Certificate of Need and Necessity, that there existed some doubt as to
the legal clarity of one specific clause relating to non-emergency type
transports.
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EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
October 12 , 1982
Mr. Greenfield stated that his particular reason for requesting
this administration and the County Attorney to look into the overall
effective interpretation of this existing County EMS Ordinance, as it
related to non-emergency transport providers, was to insure that the
County had clear control of these services before they had an open
opportunity to step into operation after October 1, 1982 .
Mr. Greenfield advised that Ms. Nancy Lee McKay, of Hillsboro
County EMS, will be at the next meeting to talk with us as a group
about some of the problems in that county and how they have dealt
with them.
Mr. Hill asked for the latest information on collections.
Mr. Dorrill said that we do not have the final printout, but recalled
the amount to be $470 ,000, which is $70 , 000 over the amended figure we
presented to the Board during the budget process . He advised he would
have the final printout by the next meeting.
Mr. Greenfield next spoke of two particular areas he plans to
attack strongly in his department; one being training at the basic
level, which he feels the paramedic does not get enough of, and the
other being alternatives in managing the system on different levels.
In doing this, he said, he has asked Keith Finlayson, senoir paramedic ,
with a broad background in emergency medicine, to put together a resume
of a philosophy of non-emergency transports in the Immokalee area and
alternatives which might be used. Since Ms . Finlayson has worked in
the Immokalee area and he feels that her information would be well done,
Mr. Greenfield said he plans to study her perspectus and deliver a
report on it at a future meeting.
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EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
October 12 , 1982
Mr. Greenfield further stated he would like to put together a
workshop to see if we have any alternatives to follow in cases where
many of the non-emergency transports from Immokalee were persons on
welfare who had no family doctor and were simply using the non-emergency
transport service as a means of seeing one when they were sick. To
Mr. Greenfield ' s comment that these same people always seem to find
a way back home, Mr. Comte replied that this is not always true, since
the hospital spends a lot of money each year on taxis and buses to
send them.
Mr. Greenfield expressed his concern over the resignation of
Mr. David Shockey, EMS Coordinator with HRS, Tallahassee, whom he
feels has been the most participating Coordinator we have ever had
at state level, and also of the change in positions made by the Assis-
tant Director in Tallahassee. Doug said he feels this breakup in HRS
will be very important within a year when the legislature is asked to
decide who will be the authoritative licensure for the state of Florida.
Will it be HRS or DPR (Department of Professional Regulations) . He
mentioned also a petition which is now going around the State from the
Fire Marshall and Sheriff's Commission office asking that it be put
in their control since they are an emergency agency and indicated
that he would report back to the Council as soon as he hears more on
the controversy concerning this item on the agenda.
NEW BUSINESS:
Mr. Hill asked that the nominating committee made up of Chief
Ijams, Dr. Ehrhardt, and himself meet in Chief Ijam's office on
Friday, October 15, to select nominees to fill the three (3) -vacan-
cies now on the Board.
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EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
October 12 , 1982
NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting of the Emergency Medical Services Advisory
Council will be held on Tuesday, November 9, 1982 , at 4 : 00 PM, in
the 5th floor Conference Room.
ADJOURNMENT:
There being no other business to come before the Council, the
meeting was adjourned by Mr. Hill at 4 : 55 PM.
Egon Hill, Chairman
Minutes prepared by Billie Moyer
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