Minutes 07/13/1982 Naples , Florida July 13 , 1982
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Emergency Medical Services
Advisory Council met on this date at 4 : 00 P.M. in the 5th floor
Conference Room in Building "F" of the Courthouse Complex with
the following members as indicated below:
CHAIRMAN: Egon Hill
MEMBERS: Jan Fillinger (Excused)
Dr. Hanns Ehrhardt
Sgt. Richard Davidson
Chief Jim Biliman (Excused)
Mr. David Graham (Excused)
Dr. Jack Greenfield
Mr. Tom Hafner
Mr. Marvil Cecil
Mr. Biff Comte
EX-OFFICIO MEMBERS : Chief Norris Ijams
Dr. John Adams for
Dr. Wm. Cox
C.G. Whidden for
Sheriff Rogers
STAFF ADVISORS: Dr. John Adams
Douglas Greenfield
Dr. Robert Tober (Absent)
W. N. Dorrill
ALSO PRESENT: Jack Wampler, EMS Billing Coordinator,
"Skip" Camp, EMS Paramedic Supervisor, and Billie Moyer.
AGENDA
I. Roll Call
II. Reading/and or approval of minutes
a) Regular meeting of June 8 , 1982
III. Advisors Reports
IV. Old Business
V. Adjourn
EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
July 13 , 1982
Chairman Egon Hill opened the meeting at 4 : 05 by stating
that he had received a letter from Mr. Wm. Reagan, County Clerk,
to the effect that the Council may be required to make a Financial
Disclosure Statement. Mr. Hill said he had asked Mr. Burt Saunders ,
County Attorney, for a ruling on this and then read the reply from
Mr. Saunders which revealed that since the EMSAC is purely an
"advisory body, " it is not required that its members file Financial
Disclosure Statements pursuant to Chapter 112 , Florida Statutes .
Pointing out that the positions of Chairman, Vice Chairman and
Secretary would have to be replaced by new members on September 30 ,
Mr. Hill appointed a committee of three to submit names of proper
persons to fill these vacancies. Mr. Tom Hafner, Dr. Ehrhardt,
and Chief Billman were chosen and asked to report at the August
meeting.
Mr. Hill said he was very pleased at the billings and collec-
tions for the month of June, noting that the collections
had risen steadily from 49 . 7% in October, to 70 . 3% in June. He
asked, however if this was correct or just a "fluke. "
Mr. Jack Wampler, Billing Coordinator for EMS , answered this
question by reporting on the progress made in that department since
he had started on March 15. One of the reasons for the larger
percentage of collections, he feels , is that a call is being placed
to the home of every patient transported, thus enabling the billing
department to properly bill the responsible party. An example, he
said, is Workmen' s Comp cases where we would send the bill directly
to the company responsible rather than to the employee.
Besides the information obtained in placing this call , he said,
most people were relieved in hearing that we will help them file
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July 13 , 1982
their insurance claims and were in most cases cooperative. Ex-
plaining that we do not help file claims until a bill is paid,
(with certain exceptions) Mr. Wampler stated that it has only been
since a Resolution was passed last March that we have done so.
Mr. Wampler gave credit to the many agencies who have been
helpful in providing vital information. Among them were the
EMT Supervisors who are extremely helpful in getting proper infor-
mation from the EMT' s , Florida Highway Patrol, Collier County
Sheriff ' s Office, Immokalee Sheriff ' s Office, Naples Community
Hospital, Naples Water Dept. , Collier Co. Water Dept. (correct
billing addresses) , Social Security Office (in determining who
might be eligible for Medicare) , and Dr. Schmid, who is authorized
to check into people' s wallets and many times identify a victim.
Mr. Wampler also mentioned the new Haitian and Cuban agency under
HRS supervision which has been quite helpful.
Mr. Wampler spoke of the new billing system and said that
the EMS billing office now has immediate access to the computer
which allows them to get input information and to adjust information.
In closing, Mr. Wampler remarked that the 70 . 3% figure for
collections was not a "fluke" and that already this month we
are again shooting toward the 70% mark.
Mr. Hill apologized for having referred to it as a "fluke" and
mentioned that he had been asked to appear on local TV in the next
week or so to report on how the new system is doing, adding that
in his opinion, they were doing "fantastically. "
Mr. Greenfield reported that he had just received the first
15-day printout on collections and all accounts receivable areas
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July 13 , 1982
and advised that it was even broken down by zones, which will
make it easier to see where to adjust strength in collections.
Mr. Hill inquired if collection agencies are of any help
and Mr. Wampler replied that they were not doing badly under the
circumstances but that since we have been able to collect more
ourselves , we probably won' t be using them as much. Mr. Greenfield
added that by using live collection techniques as we do now, and
making the second personal contact in 45 days and allowing 90 days
instead of 145, has been of great help.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES, JUNE 8 , 1982 :
Minutes were approved as submitted.
ADVISORS REPORTS:
Dr. Adams reported that 2 new vehicles had been inspected;
one a new unit, and the other refurbished and a new chasis in-
stalled, bringing us to a total of 9 vehicles, plus 1 helicopter.
Permit applications are on the way to Tallahassee.
Mr. Hill asked how much we use the helicopter and Mr Greenfield
replied that its use was pretty much seasonal, being used only once
or twice a week at the most.
Marvin Cecil mentioned that paramedics are now taking blood
alcohol tests, which is of great assistance to law enforcement.
Mr. Greenfield explained the portion of the new DUI law which
states that in the case of severe bodily injury or loss of life
resulting from the use of alcoholic beverages or a controlled sub-
stance, an officer on the scene has the right to request a paramedic
to make a blood alcohol test. He said he had met with Judge Hayes ,
and representatives of the law enforcement agency and Naples Community
Hospital and further stated that he had asked that the paramedic be
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July 13 , 1982
given the right to refuse to do this test if he feels that it
would endanger the life of the patient. Mr. Greenfield advised
he will be meeting soon with Ray Barnett, Chief Deputy, to work
out an agreement with him for providing kits to be used on the
scene and making EMS essentially the agent to receive the blood
to be turned over to the officer immediately for shipment
to Sanford. While Mr. Greenfield did not anticipate too much of
a problem with this procedure, except where litigations and sub-
poenas may be involved, he was concerned that EMS might be called
to take blood every time a person DUI was pulled over. Mr. Whidden
assured him that in situations which did not involve bodily injury
the subject would be taken to the station for a breatholizer test.
Mr. Hill asked what would happen if a patient refused to take
the blood (7,.lcohol test and was told by Mr. Whidden that reasonable
force could be used in holding the person while the paramedic took
the blood.
Marvin Cecil suggested the law might need to be checked out
on this in the event a paramedic could be sued for manhandling a
patient, although he had been told by the judges that they were
going to go to the greatest extremes to protect the paramedics .
Relating that experience in Illinois with this procedure had
been unsatisfactory because a lot of time had to be spent in court
by the EMTs, Mr. Greenfield said he felt a solution would be to
make only a few of the EMTs eligible to give this test, i.e. a
Field Supervisor, if in an appropriate zone, and limiting eligi-
bility to only 6 people.
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July 13 , 1982
Mr. Cecil agreed that making the test at the scene would
make it a lot easier on doctors in the Emergency Room and would
relieve situations where they are sometimes all subpoenaed to go
into court the same day, but was greatly concerned that EMS should
make sure the courts are going to stand by what they promised,
since some very positive things could come of it.
Mr. Dorrill mentioned the unfortunate incident of the 11th
involving Paramedic Jim Smith, who was stabbed by a person unknown,
and it was ascertained that Mr. Smith had been released from the
hospital and was doing nicely.
Mr. Greenfield reported that although he has never wanted to
become directly involved with body removal, he has no complaints
with the gentleman from Fort Lauderdale who recently has started
removing dead bodies in his station wagon all over the county for
the Medical Examiner. He feels the gentleman is well qualified,
having worked with one of the best organizations in the state,
and is very interested in doing the best he can. Since EMS has
only used his services a few times, Mr. Greenfield felt the oper-
ation was just too new to give an opinion, adding that the Medical
Examiner and Sheriff ' s Office feel it is an improvement and that
the paramedics are "ecstatic. "
"Skip" Camp gave the results of a public survey on EMS services
which was made last month. Stating that starting with the June 15th
billing date, each patient treated or transported to the hospital
was sent an evaluation card requesting that they comment on items
such as vehicle response time, attitude of technicians and drivers,
how the vehicle was driven, and condition of vehicle and linen.
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July 13 , 1982
Mr. Camp reported the results as being tremendously supportive.
Of the 46 cards received so far, 45 persons felt the vehicle
arrived quickly, the drivers and technicians were courteous and
considerate, the vehicle and linen were clean. Only 1 person
felt the linen was "gray and crumpled, " but rated all other
items as satisfactory. Forty patients signed their evaluation
and thirty-one made positive write-in comments in the space
provided for remarks .
In conclusion, Mr. Camp said it was decided to continue this
plan indefinitely, as it provides our organization with continuous
feedback from the public we serve, telling us that the public sees
an EMS system that responds quickly, with courteous and considerate
drivers and technicians; responding in vehicles that are clean and
carefully driven.
Mr. Greenfield advised he had just received a copy of the new
state legislation adopted effective June 23rd and going into effect
the 1st of October, for the reenactment of Chapter 401 with new
revisions. He invited anyone wanting a copy to contact him.
Mr. Greenfield said the issue had received tremendous support
statewide but expressed dissatisfaction with lack of support from
HRS at both local and state levels in their ineffectiveness in
reaching the public and letting them know how important this pro-
gram really is.
He further added that after speaking with people from HRS on
several occasions he had finally told them that if they are to be
looked up to as "Big Brother, " it was necessary for them to come
down and speak with the people on the local level and indicated
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July 13 , 1982
that we needed the support of HRS in order to show growth in
the next decade.
Dr. Ehrhardt referred to the cost of postage for the sur-
vey cards sent out by the billing department stamped "No Postage
Necessary, " and Mr. Greenfield explained that since EMS had
established a trust fund with the post office and is eligible
for the bulk rate, the cost per card was 15G each.
Mr. Greenfield reported that with the new legislation, an
EMT will be allowed to intubate esophageally after being prop-
erly trained by a physician. He mentioned also that although
EMTs are not allowed to start an IV, they can now monitor an
IV during transport, thus eliminating the need for the hospital
to furnish a nurse to do this. By running a very advanced 2-man
team, he said, the driver can now play a more extensive role in
patient assessment and treatment in helping stabilize worst situ-
ations such as severe trauma, respiratory arrest, cardiac arrest,
etc. Mr. Greenfield indicated he had wanted a lot more but is
satisfied with what he felt was a giant step and a chance to show
Tallahassee what we can do, in hopes for a better program the
next time around.
Attributing a good deal of the "down time" which had been
questioned, to the 2 , 000 mile vehicle maintenance program, rather
than to breakdowns, Mr. Greenfield felt that a lot of time was
saved by this program in the longrun. He added that vehicles are
being assigned to crews for the first time, instead of rotating
crews every 30 days , resulting in a more personal attitude toward
maintaining high standards of vehicle care and sanitation.
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July 13 , 1982
Mr. Hill inquired how many crews were needed per truck and
Mr. Greenfield replied that there were three - (6 people).
Mr. Greenfield explained that specific types of emergency
driving standards were now being used in unincorporated areas
with low traffic density and that only the flashing box lights
were being turned on with no beacons or siren, in order to
reduce the work load on systems, and felt this would pay off
greatly.
Biff Comte asked what the monthly maintenance cost on the
helicopter amounted to. This was answered by Mr. Dorrill, who
replied that we don' t have it broken down by the month, but that
a cost accounting system has been set up incorporating all expenses
involved i.e. , overhead insurance, pilot 's salary, phone bill at
hangar, rent of hangar, etc. He further explained that at budget time
each year every department in the County is asked to indicate the
anticipated time of use and by dividing the total expenses by the
total anticipated hours of use, an hourly rate is set up. This
rigorous cost accounting system was set up and outlined in the
Helicopter Policy which was adopted by the Board last year in an
effort to enable the helicopter to pay for itself. Mr. Dorrill also
made clear the fact that the helicopter does not belong to EMS .
Mr. Comte said he thought the public should be made aware that
the helicopter is not EMS property, since some people felt it was
an awfully expensive piece of equipment for the ambulance service
to have, especially since they hardly ever saw it running.
Mr. Greenfield answered that one of the reasons it has not
been used as much as it could be is the lack of a suitable place
to land.
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•
July 13 , 1982
Dr. Ehrhardt asked if the body removal service would be the
one to remove a body in the case of a person who died at home and
was not a cororner' s case.
Mr. Greenfield replied that Dr. Schmid had established a set
fee to be charged for body removal done by both EMS and by funeral
homes and that the body removal service agency had agreed to
charge this standard fee. Mr. Dorrill added that in cases where
the family has a preference for removal by a funeral home, the
funeral home will do so in most cases. In cases where the body
is that of an indigent, however, removal by the service will be
authorized by Dr. Schmid.
Dr. Ehrhardt then asked if bodies at the scene of an accident
are always removed by this service. Mr. Greenfield said this
would usually be true, since it was important that traffic be
cleared and adequate response time has been guaranteed by this
service.
Mr. Greenfield reported he has been meeting with the Fire
Chiefs to discuss a response protocol program and was very pleased
with the results . He said the format for drawing up an agree-
ment which he and his staff had worked out was well received and
that he will get together with the firemen at the next regular
meeting in August to set down some formula to go by. Noting that
it would take time to sit down and look at all the individual
problems and monitor them month by month, he said it would take
some time until they would arrive at a workable product.
Mr. Hill mentioned unofficially from Jan Fillinger that she
may be resigning due to accepting a full time job.
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July 13 , 1982
Next month, Mr. Hill announced, he will review the attendance
record for reporting to the Commissioners and that anyone who had
been absent 3 consecutive times without proper excuse would be
dropped and a new person appointed.
Tom Hafner reported his progress on the attempt to get an
emergency phone system on Alligator Alley. Since the highway
right of way belongs to the Indians , he said, nothing can be done
by Florida Dept. of Transportation without the tribe ' s permission.
As a result, Mr. Hafner said, Curtis Osceola, a tribal commissioner,
and Joe Blanchard, of DOT have been working together to figure out
what could be done. Initially, he said, we were told that the
Indians were going to put up a half-way station there and set up a
command post but that Florida legislature in their mass appropri-
ation bill voted in money to the Indians to do a study on how much
it would cost to put phones in on the Alley. Realizing that a lot
of problems would be involved in channeling calls to the proper
agency, such as Florida Highway Patrol , Sheriff ' s Office, the
command post, etc. , Mr. Hafner said he has been trying to make an
appointment with Curtis Osceola to see what they have come up with
in their study and also what the aims of DOT are.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no other business to come before the Council, the
meeting was adjourned at 5 : 09 PM.
Mr. Egon Hill, Chairman
Prepared by: Billie Moyer
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MEMO TO: Members of EMSAC
FROM W. Neil Dorrill , Public Safety Administrator
DATE July 13 , 1982
SUBJECT: Minutes of Meeting June 8 , 1982
In accompaniment , please find copy of the Minutes from
the Regular Meeting of June 8 , 1982 . Please review these in
order that they can be adopted at the next meeting on August 10 ,
1982 , at 4: 00 PM.
WND/bm
cc: C. W. Norman, County Manager
File - 14D