BCC Minutes 08/12/1991 SORIGINAL
PUBLIC HEARING
August 12, 1991
6:00 p.m.
Southwest Florida Research
and Education Center
P.O. Box 50127
Highway 29 North
Immokalee, Florida 33934
Reported by:
Jeffrey W. Marquardt
Notary Public
State of Florida at Large
TELE:
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
Carrothers Reporting Service, Inc.
20th Judicial Circuit - Collier County
3301 East Tamiami Trail
Naples, Florida 33962
813-732-2700 FAX:
813-774-6022
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
A-P-P-E-A-R-A-N-C-E-S
BOARD MEMBERS:
Anne GoodniGht, Chairman
Max Hasse, Commissioner
Michael J. Volpe, Commissioner
Burr Saunders, Commissioner
Dick Shannahan, Commissioner
STAFF:
Robert Blanchard - Growth Planning Director
Frank Brutt - Community Development Administrator
Kenneth Cuyler - County Attorney
Marjorie Student - Acting County Attorney
Michelle Edwards - Growth Planning Department
SPEAKERS:
· ~ Robert Davenport
~' Charles Gallops
Robert Pitts
Freddie Thomas
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I'll call the meeting to order.
All rise, please.
(Pledge of allegiance recited by all)
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: The first item is the Zoning
Amendment R-91-7. Michelle.
MS. EDWARDS: Good evening. For the record, I'm
Michelle Edwards with the Growth Planning Department. On
January 10th of 1989, we adopted our Growth Management
Plan. Within the Growth Management Plan's Future Land Use
Element, we have Policy 6.4, which required us to complete
a Master Plan for the Immokalee area.
On February 5th, 1991, the Immokalee Area Master Plan
was adopted. Within that Master Plan, there is Policy
2.1.10, which required us to rezone all those properties
that are inconsistent with the newly adopted Future Land
Use Map for the Immokalee area.
Today, we're here to present to you all of those
properties and proposed zoning designations for those
properties to become consistent with the Immokalee Area
Master Plan Element and Map.
During the Master Plan adoption Drocess, the Board
directed staff to include one property of Lake Trafford
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
Ill Ii
Farm subdivision, which is identified in this area
(indicating). Within your packet, there are maps
identifying the various properties that are going to be
rezoned tonight. This one's located -- and I apologize for
the numbering or lack of numbering of these pages. On the
fourth map in your packet -- the sixth map in your packet,
they're being copied. They're not yet copied right now.
It is Map 6-836, it's in the Lake Trafford Farm
subdivision; and that subdivision is currently zoned A-2,
and we are proposing to have it rezoned to RSF-3 because
it's currently developed out and it's inconsistent. The
development pattern is inconsistent with its zoning
district, so the Board directed us to include it within the
Immokalee rezoning. It's the only one that is being
upzoned, rather than downzoned.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: For those of you that don't have
a map and cannot see the map, let me explain to you where
it's at. It's out on Lake Trafford Road, on the north side
of Lake Trafford Road where Trafford Farms are and some of
the habitat homes have been built out there and this is
some of the adjoining property that habitat has owned. But
at this time, because of the zoning, you cannot build on~
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
it.
And so, all this is is just shaping this piece of
property out so that the rest of that property can be built
in habitat homes or single-family homes. There's no
multi-family units that's planned there. It's only single-
family.
MS. EDWARDS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What is the proposed designation?
MS. EDWARDS: Residential, Single-Family 3.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: How big a piece of land is that,
again, Michelle?
MS. EDWARDS: I am not really sure what the acreage
It is probably about five acres, if not a little bit
is.
more.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I think that's what it was.
MS. EDWARDS: I think it is five acres.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
on that?
MS. EDWARDS: No.
That means you can put 15 units
It's three to the acre but I think
that's the maximum that you're permitted but you have to
meet your setback requirements and your lot sizes of that
zoning district. I think they're going to have -- they'll
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
have 12 on that five-acre property.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Are you through with this?
MS. EDWARDS: With that property.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Then, can I ask if there's anyone
in the audience that needs to talk on this area on this
particular rezone?
MR. DAVENPORT: I would like to know the density of
the area.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
identify yourself.
MR. DAVENPORT: Yes. I'm Robert Davenport and I own
property right near there and I'd like to know the density
that's proposing there on that map, the area.
MS. EDWARDS: For the surrounding area?
MR. DAVENPORT: Yes.
MS. EDWARDS: The density permitted under the Future
Land Use Map would be up to 4 units per acre but the
current zoning of the property surrounding that area is
still Agricultural 2, which allows 1 unit per five acres.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: With a mobile home overlay?
MS. EDWARDS: With a mobile home overlay, so you can
put a mobile home in there as well.
Robert, for the record, would you
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COT/NTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: But it can go through the zoning
process, and at that time you could get up to 4 units per
acre; is that correct?
MS. EDWARDS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Why is it being call RSF-3, then?
MS. EDWARDS: For that particular subdivision, we're
including it in this rezoning process and recommending that
it be changed from its current zoning of A-2-MH-2
Residential, Single-Family 3.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Are there any questions, then?
Okay. Then we'll go to the next item.
MS. EDWARDS: Well, on the same item, there are 163
Commercial properties that are included in this rezoning
process. Twenty Residential properties and one Planned
Unit Development.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I didn't mean -- I just meant
that map. So, you would take us to the next map.
MS. EDWARDS: Do you want to start with the first map
in your packet, which is Map 6932-S?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: The area that we are addressing
is Immokalee Drive, North 15th Street, and Lake Trafford
Road down to 29th Street but it is not going over to
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
Roberts.
MS. EDWARDS: That is Map 7904, and which is in the
corner of your -- okay. That's the one that Commissioner
GoodniGht just explained.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: RTMC-4, what you are talking
about?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Did you say that was the first
map in the package?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes. The first map in our package is
6932-S, which is Lake Trafford Road and the subdivision
that it fronts. The C-3 Commercial fronts the Bordon
subdivision, Bordon and RinGo Streets. We're proposing to
change those hatched areas from its current C-3 zoning to
Mobile Home Subdivision.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
The next map --
What's the --
MS. EDWARDS: Mobile Home Subdivision would allow for
a minimum lot size of 6,000 square feet, I believe.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: You believe or is it, in fact,
60 by 1007
MS. EDWARDS: I don't have my zoning district, but it
would be consistent with the zoning that's adjacent to the
south of that.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So, is the intent there to
allow -- is it RinGo Street and Boron to develop out --
MS. EDWARDS: To Lake Trafford.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: As a mobile home subdivision?
MS. EDWARDS: Subdivision.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: That's consistent with all
those lots right in front of it, is that what you're
saying?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: You're Going to leave the lots on
the end, still, as Commercial?
MS. EDWARDS: Right, because they're currently
developed as Commercial.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Are there any questions on this?
Are there any questions as to where
Do you understand?
this is located?
MS. EDWARDS:
No. We don't have the map.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Where the Lake Trafford drive-
through and the Handy Store is on Lake Trafford Road, it's
the vacant piece of property between Bordon and Ringo Lane
that we're talking about rezoning to a mobile home
subdivision instead of the C-3 property that it is
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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currently zoned as.
MR. THOMAS: I just want to make (inaudible)
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: There are no questions, then, on
this map?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Just so that I acquaint myself a
little bit better with the area, did you say that there are
developed Commercial parcels fronting on Lake Trafford Road
to both the east and west?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And is the one to the east', is
it, the one that adjoins the Garden Lake Apartments, is
that fully developed as a Commercial piece?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: The front part is developed; the
back part is not developed, but --
MS. EDWARDS: It is all one parcel.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
It's all one parcel.
So, the Commercial frontage of
those two parcels, then, that there'll be a setback from
Lake Trafford, and then you're Going to have a -- one side
you're going to have Commercial that will run -- I don't
have any distances here, so it's hard for me to say, but to
Lot 38, that will all be developed as Commercial?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
ll
MS. EDWARDS: Potentially, yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But on the other side, you're
proposing that the back portion of that parcel would be
rezoned from C-3 to Mobile Home Subdivision. Is there --
MS. EDWARDS: Subdivision. Because what we looked at
is unimproved properties within this rezoning process. The
parcel to the west of the shaded area is all one property,
one parcel; and it's currently got Commercial on the front
portion of it. The entire parcel is considered improved,
so we can't consider the back half of that property.
On the west side, that's two separate properties. So,
the unimproved properties are the ones that we are
recommending for rezoning.
And the next map, 6928-S, identifies a Commercial
tract within the Heritage P.U.D.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Point that out on the map. It is
south of here, right north of Bob Coleman's office.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: The rest of that tract is all
Commercial, with the exception of that little piece in red?
MS. EDWARDS: The piece in red is the Commercial
tract. The rest of it is Community use, or Residential to
the east of it.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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COMMISSIONER HASSE: What's on it now?
MS. EDWARDS: It's all vacant.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That parcel is subject to a
rezoninG petition. That's another item on our agenda.
MS. EDWARDS: RiGht. I was Going to mention that.
This particular parcel is the next item on our agenda, so
if we can skip over that.
The next map is 7903 North.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Wait just a second. So, what we
are doing is, I just -- I'm sorry, I didn't understand what
you said. This is the proposed amendment to the Zoning
Atlas to change the designation of our Future Land Use Map?
MS. EDWARDS: RiGht.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And then the next petition is to
rezone?
MS. EDWARDS: In order to make changes to a Planned
Unit Development, we have to look at that Planned Unit
Development document and revise that document to reflect.
So, it is not just simply designation on the Zoning Atlas.
It's Going back to the P.U.D. document and making revisions
in the document to reflect any new changes.
I just wanted to skip it because I'd like to point out
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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all the different changes that were made within the
document.
The next one would be Mobile Homes Rental Park
designation being proposed.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: What number?
MS. EDWARDS: Map No. 7903 North.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: For those of you in the audience,
this is the area that's across the street from Strick's
Shell Oil that's presently the mobile home rental park
that's next door to where the old Circle W. used to be.
MS. EDWARDS: On your map it indicates the proposed
zoning to be RSF-3. That's in error, and it should read
C-5, Commercial 5, which is consistent with what's
surrounding it.
That particular area is designated Industrial on the
Immokalee Future Land Use Map; and that designation
specifiically says no Residential would be permitted in
that designation, so we're taking out the Residential
development and zoning it to C-5, consistent with its land
use designation.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Are there any questions or
discussions from the audience? Okay.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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COMMISSIONER VOLPE: May I ask a question? On the
zoning classification, now, we are in the process of
considering new Unified Land Development regulations and
talking about consolidating some of the districts.
Is this C-5, is this old C-5 or is this new C-57 Is
that important?
MS. EDWARDS: It's the old C-5, but whatever the
surrounding C-5 districts get changed to with the Unified
Code, it would be consistent with that.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's MHRP?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, Mobile Home Rental Park.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: And that isn't in existence now,
is what you are telling me?
MS. EDWARDS: It is. That particular one is in
existence but because our designation specifically says no
Residential, and it's completely surrounded by industrial
development. We're recommending to change that particular
one to its like zoning in the area.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: So, what's that mean? You are
going to tear it down?
MS. EDWARDS: It would make it nonconforming, and they
would be permitted to place, you know, some of their
OFFICIA5 COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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trailers. But if it's vacated for 90 days, then they
wouldn't be permitted to bring it back on if the entire --
you know, if they move off the trailer and they don't
replace it within 90 days, they wouldn't be permitted to
replace that trailer. And when all the trailers are
removed, or if the property owner decides to remove all the
trailers and develop it as Commercial-5, then they would be
able to do so.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: I thought they needed living
quarters down in this section.
MS. EDWARDS: Within this area?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Its completely surrounded by
Commercial-5 and Industrial, and it's not a very Good area
for Residential.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Probably not, but it's better
than sleeping on the street.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Didn't you say, though, that
there's prohibition against having Residential units in
this --
MS. EDWARDS:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
COMMISSIONER MASSE:
Within the industrial area.
-- within this industrial area?
I understand that, but somebody
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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is living there now.
MS. EDWARDS: Well, we wouldn't go in tomorrow and
tell them to remove their trailers. It just says any
nonconforming district, if they vacate it for 90 days, then
they wouldn't be permitted to replace it.
Are there any other questions for this particular one?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
this one? Next area.
MS. EDWARDS: The next map is 7904 North.
Are there any other questions on
There are
two parcels on this map, both of them located south of
Immokalee Drive. One of them is currently zoned C-4, and
it is behind -- I believe there's a tire place or something
or a garage in that area, out in Dickie's back yard.
MR. GALLOPS: Out in Dickie's back yard.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: That's what I was going to say,
Charlie. This is the one you were questioning?
MR. GALLOPS: Yes. For the record, my name is Charles
Gallops. I am here on behalf of Richard Johnson. He asked
me to register his firm opposition to any change of his
back yard whatsoever.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: This piece of property is in his
back yard?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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MR. GALLOPS: Well, it's behind Earl Hall's. I mean
it's part of his house. It sits within this property; but
from my understanding from looking at this, the part they
are trying to change, we Go all the way up to Earl Hall's
and it's bordered by other Commercial properties with Earl
Hall and currently the Ford place, LanGford Ford used
cars. It's bordering this piece of property, is my
understandinG, if this map is correct.
MS. EDWARDS: The portion that's developed is
Commercial is the portion that's in front of the "hatched"
area. To the north of it, it's Got a sinGle-family house
on that one tract; and then across that there is vacant.
But the Commercial designation on the Immokalee Future
Land Use Map Goes from the road, 400 feet back; and then
everything beyond that is designated as Low Residential.
We're recommending that it be changed from its C-4 to
RSF-3.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I Guess, Charlie, my question to
you would be that -- that Dick is opposed to chanGinG the
zoning to Residential instead of Commercial. It's
presently zoned as Commercial.
MR. GALLOPS: That's correct.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: And they're recommending it to
be changed to Residential or RSF-3.
MR. GALLOPS: That's my understanding, and he has
instructed me just to register his opposition.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: He wants it to remain
Commercial. Is that what you're saying?
MR. GALLOPS: Yes. That's what he told me.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, if it's surrounded by
Commercial, why wouldn't it remain Commercial?
Ask her.
It's not surrounded by Commercial.
I was just told it practically
MR. GALLOPS:
MS. EDWARDS:
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
is.
MS. EDWARDS: The front of it is Commercial on 29 and
on three sides by Residential. And our designation, the
portion that is developed Commercial, is designated
Commercial on the Future Land Use Map. The portion that
we're recommending to be changed to Residential is vacant
and it's surrounded by Residential on three sides.
MR. GALLOPS: Are you trying to change -- is this
Roberts Avenue -- everybody where, from Roberts Avenue back
to just --
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIE~ COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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MS. EDWARDS:
MR. GALLOPS:
Taylor right now.
Just the area that's crosshatched.
This is north just between Forest and
It's bordered, like I said, on the west
side by Commercial and I guess on the other side by
Residential and he wants it to remain Commercial for
whatever reason.
It's his. He's owned it for 25 years as Commercial
property, I suppose.
MS. EDWARDS: Just clarification. All the properties
that are included in this rezoning process have been
notified prior to the adoption of the Immokalee Master
Plan. After the adoption of the Master Plan, we conducted
a workshop out here for the property owners that are being
rezoned; and then they were also notified as a part of the
zoning re-evaluation process prior to that and they were
noticed again prior to these meetings. So, I've never
heard any objections until today.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: You're hearing it now.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes. I just wanted to note for the
record that they were notified of the potential change to
their property.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mrs. Edwards, it proposes RSF-3.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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Is there going to be a designation of RSF-5 under our new
Unified Land Development regulations, because it looks like
the densities are higher than RSF-3 in the surrounding
area?
MS. EDWARDS: To the north and to the east, yes. But
the land use designations are -- is Low Residential, which
permits up to 4 units per acre. If we designate it to
RSF-5, then we're permitting more density than is permitted
by land use.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Then that would be appropriate.
But how about RSF-4, which would be? I mean I didn't know
why you pick 3, just why in terms of density.
MS. EDWARDS: We picked RSF-3 because the other -- the
area to the south, you know, crossing Third Avenue and all
the area to the east is all zoned RSF-3.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: What's on that piece of the
property immediately to the north of it?
MS. EDWARDS: A single-family house.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: The big one?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
Roberts Avenue.
It's not Third Avenue. It's
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MS. EDWARDS: Oh, Roberts Avenue.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Yes.
MR. GALLOPS: North of what we are discussing.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: On our map it has got Third
Avenue, and it's not Third.
to First Street.
COMMISSIONER MASSE:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
Robert's goes all the way down
And Immokalee Drive.
Immokalee Drive is north, but on
the map it says Third Avenue and it's Roberts Avenue.
Do you know how many acres is in this proposed here
that's behind the C-47
MS. EDWARDS: Within that property, let's see. 1.81
acres.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
in that, five houses?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, with RSF-3, more or less.
less, yes.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: The next area.
MS. EDWARDS: Would be just to the --
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: On the same map.
MS. EDWARDS: On the same map, just to the east of
that property it's currently zoned RSF-5. The other area
So, you get about five buildings
More or
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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surrounding, that's also zoned RSF-5. As I mentioned
before, it's all improved, and we're only considering
unimproved properties. We're recommending that it be
changed to RSF-3.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Charlie, this looks like the
property that's east of your mother's house.
That's what they're building the school
MR. GALLOPS:
on, isn't it?
MS. EDWARDS:
property.
COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT:
there. It's east of the house.
that.
MR. GALLOPS: No.
No. It's just west of the school
I think that it is right up
I think that you-all own
That would belong to Tiny Skipper.
The big block at the end of Forest is ours and the little
block going over was part of our house at one time and it
has been -- whenever Uncle Johnny moved out, he had sold
that little piece to Tiny Skipper. So, that's not part of
our house. It does butt up to the backside of our fence.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
from RSF-5 to RSF-3?
MS. EDWARDS: Right:
So, they're changing the zoning
Is there an objection?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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MR. GALLOPS: I don't have an objection to that.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: All right.
MS. EDWARDS: The next map would be 7904 Sell, and
there are two parcels on this map as well. The first one
is in the corner of Boston and Fourth Street, it's
currently zoned C-4, and we're recommending to change it to
VR, which is Village Residential.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: So, that would make that entire
block there that --
MS. EDWARDS: Would make the entire property Village
Residential.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: And what did you say it is
zoned now?
MS. EDWARDS: Its currently zoned C-4.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's that one little corner
there.
MS. EDWARDS:
Yes. It's the northeast corner.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: For those of you in the audience,
it's a piece of property that Floyd and Murray own there on
the corner of Boston and Fourth. It's undeveloped.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: What's on the other property?
MS. EDWARDS: The entire block is undeveloped.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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So, you make one full parcel out
You'll have to Go over that again
Half of this is now zoned RMF?
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
of this?
MS. EDWARDS: Right. It's all under one ownership.
Are there any questions on that particular property?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Are there any questions from the
audience on that property? Okay. Next.
MS. EDWARDS: The next one would be --
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: Don't you have another piece
on that same page?
MS.EDWARDS: Yes. On that same page its current
zoning is Residential, Multi-Family 16. It's bordered by
Delaware, Ninth Street, and Eustis Avenues. And we are
recommending to change it to -- it indicates RMF-6 on your
map. The Planning Commission recommended to change it to
RMF-12 with a condition to only have it max out at 8 units
per acre, which is what the land use designation is for
that area.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
with me.
16.
The portion that's shaded is
It's vacant.
MS. EDWARDS:
MS. EDWARDS:
undeveloped.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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COMMISSIONER HASSE: Is the other portion developed?
MS. EDWARDS: It's developed, yes.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: ThrouGh 167
MS. EDWARDS: It's 11 units per acre.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
the west?
MS. EDWARDS:
And you want to continue that to
To the west of it we're recommending to
change it to, as per Planning Commission recommendation,
Residential, Multi-Family 12; but the land use designation
on the Immokalee Master Plan Map has HiGh Residential,
which maxes out at 8 units per acre.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
could Go up to --
MS. EDWARDS: To 16.
But with density bonuses they
They can Get -- that's if
they're doing affordable housinG.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Why wouldn't you designate it as
RMF-8? It still would be entitled to the density bonus.
MS. EDWARDS: RiGht, but there isn't a zoning
designation today that's RMF-8.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Then why don't you leave it at 6?
Is there one at 127 There isn't one at 12, is there?
MS. EDWARDS: There's one at 12. There's RMF-6, and
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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then it goes to RMF-12.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: But you're capping it at 8?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: You're just trying to get
them up to a reasonable density?
MS. EDWARDS: Right. The only thing that I'd like to
mention is that we don't really have a process currently
that allows us to monitor those properties that are zoned
higher, and we are conditioning them at a lower density.
We'd have to develop a process, somehow, to help us monitor
that. Because if we change it to RMF-12, the zoning map's
going to indicate RMF-12. And when they come in for
development, there's nothing that identifies on the zoning
map that they're only conditioned at the maximum of 8 units
per acre.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Maybe I didn't understand why the
Planning Commission, then, was recommending it because you
only wanted it to develop out to 8 units an acre. The only
way they're going to get 8 units an acre is through some
sort of a density bonus.
MS. EDWARDS: They can get 8 outright because of their
land use designation under the Immokalee Area Master Plan,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
27
but if --
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
COMMISSIONER. THOMAS:
Fred.
The situation was -- Fred
Thomas, member of the Planning Commission. That piece of
property is zoned by one individual in the plan to
development for housinG. Everythin~ around it is either
RSF, RMF-8 or 11. I'm talking about did exist at 11 or 8
right now.
We agreed to Go to HiGh Residential, which is one of
the categories under the Immokalee Future Land Use Plan
which allows them to Get 8 units an acre. But there is a
zoning category to cover that, so we say Go to 12. But the
cap -- they can't build more than 8 per acre. See, we do
it as RMF-6.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How do they Get to 8 under the
designation under the Immokalee Master Plan?
MS. EDWARDS: Their land use designation on the Master
Plan is HR, HiGh Residential, which allows them 8 units per
acre -- up to 8 units per acre.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But there isn't a zoning
classification that allows for 8 units an acre, so how do
you Get from 6 to 8?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
28
MR. THOMAS:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
coming down, either.
MS. EDWARDS: We can rezone them.
You go to 12.
We don't have a mechanism for
We can rezone them
to RMF-6 and they can come in for a Planned Unit
Development and get designated at 8 units per acre.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
the --
MS. EDWARDS: That would be consistent. Or, you can
do as the Planning Commission recommends. Zone them to
RMF-12, but we have to establish a mechanism that would
monitor that particular property that would make sure they
don't exceed the 8 units per acre that they're permitted
under the Master Plan.
MR. THOMAS: There's some other properties on the
coastal area getting the same kind of thing, okay, because
the problem is they are right now holding a piece of land
that's zoned RMF-16. We felt that would bring them down to
the maximum that they can Get, 8. The only way we can do
that is to go to Category 12.
Now, on the other property, I think we went to a
development order that says you can't Get more than 8 oN
And that would be consistent with
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
29
that piece of property unless you go to a density.
MS. EDWARDS: I was just told by Barbara Cacchione
that within the Unified Code there are -- they are going to
be developing a system which monitors this. So, if we do
rezone it to RMF-12, it will be -- right, they will be
monitored under the Unified Code.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Are there any questions from the
audience?
(No responses)
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Next item.
MS. EDWARDS: There are several properties within this
area. It's all within the New Market subdivision. We are
recommending that the block that's between Jefferson and
New Market, half of that, the properties that front
Jefferson Avenue from Flagler to Dade, be rezoned to
Residential, Multi-Family 6. And everything from Flagler
to Immokalee Drive between Jefferson and Adams be also
rezoned from its C-4 zoning to Residential, Multi-family
6.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Any questions from the
Commission?
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Yes. What's on that now?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
30
MS. EDWARDS: There's some properties that are vacant
and others that are currently developed as duplexes or
single-family homes.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Will they fit into this?
MS. EDWARDS: Right. They're consistent with the
Residential, Multi-Family 6 zoning district.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I have got a number of speakers
that are wanting to speak on this.
MR. GAL50PS: I'd like to say something as soon as
I figure out where I'm at with this map. The numbers are
I can't really tell what lots I'm concerned
smeared.
with.
MS. EDWARDS: The block numbers are circled in the
middle of each block.
MR. GALLOPS: I don't have a problem with the one in
Block 31, Lots 14 through 20; that's on Skipper's house,
that's fine. But the next one is Block 40, Lot 17 through
20 and 21 through 23, I can't really tell where I'm at with
this map. I can't read the numbers, and my map looks like
a section of Immokalee Drive is left out. Won't it be
changed? I'm not sure if I'm falling within that or not.
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, it would be. Everything that
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
31
fronts Jefferson on Block 40, all those lots that you
numbered, were fronting Jefferson Avenue between Dade and
Immokalee Drive.
MR. GALLOPS: I still can't tell where Lot 17 through
20 or 21 through 23 is on my map, so I really have no
idea. What's in that area right now? Uncle John owns
these.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: On Lot 40?
MR. GALLOPS: Lot 40.
COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Or Block 40, we're talking
about the key place. And then, the rest of that, the rest
of that is vacant except when you get up to Dade. And then
that's where there's a couple of houses that's on Dade, but
they're not owned.
Jefferson, they're down closer to Adams. Otherwise,
its completely vacant.
MR. GALLOPS: I'm trying to see where the lots are
located, but all along right through here is Industrial and
ours falls right here through this corner. I would have an
objection. If it falls here somewhere, then I couldn't --
I can't tell, exactly.
What I'm trying to do is determine where Lots 17
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
32
through 20 and 21 through 23, where they're located within
Block 40. If they're located back to the, I guess it would
be the northwest side of Block 40, then I would have no
problems at all. If they're located within the little
triangular piece directly behind Shelly Carter's, then I
will register an objection, in that it did not rezone
Shelly's Locksmith shop. And if these are the lots that
I'm concerned with, then I would register an objection; and
I would feel like that whole side could remain commercial.
But I don't know where the lots are to decide whether
or not to register an objection or not. That's what we're
trying to figure out at this point. Where 17 through 20
and where 21 through 23 are located within this section of
Block 40.
MS. CACCHIONE:
description.
MR. GALLOPS:
little numbers.
in that block is --
MS. EDWARDS:
locksmith.
MR. GALLOPS:
Both of those parcels are in the legal
It's just with my map I can't read the
I can read Block 40, but everything else
17 through 23 are all behind the
It's directly behind the locksmith.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
33
MR. THOMAS:
Jefferson.
MS. EDWARDS:
MR. GALLOPS:
MS. EDWARDS:
MR. GALLOPS:
Those are the ones that face on
They face on Jefferson.
That's 17 through 20?
Through 23.
Through 23, okay.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
on that?
MR. GALLOPS:
MS. EDWARDS:
Has there been an objection filed
Yes. I would like --
There's been a Compatibility Exception
Application submitted to Growth Planning Department on both
of those properties and both of them were denied.
period to appeal was ended on July 24th.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Are you aware of that?
MR. GALLOPS: I'm not --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, are you the owner of the
property?
MR. GALLOPS: No, I'm not. I'm his nephew. He's ill
and unable to attend the meeting. This was known to me
this morning at about 10:00 o'clock. He said, "Here, go to
the meeting." So, that's why I'm here.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I understand.
The
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
34
MR. GALLOPS: And I know nothing about whether or not
he's ever been noticed. I suppose he has. They said he'd
been noticed. I supposed he has. I know nothing about any
appeal, when the appeal dates run or anything else. I was
just told to come and use my judgment whether or not to
register an objection with Johnny Johnson's property and
specifically instructed by Dick Johnson to register his
opposition to any change.
So, that's why I was trying to figure out where the
lots are located. And as far as the appeal process and
whether or not the time line has ran or not, I have no
idea. But just for the record, I am registering an
objection. Whether or not it's valid, whether or not it
does any good, I don't know.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: We appreciate it. Thank you.
MR. GALLOPS: But at this point, if these are located
behind Shelly's Locksmith shop, then I would register an
objection in that it would -- I don't see where it would
benefit anybody to change to Residential. If it's not
going to change Shelly's, then you left it all C-4. You
know, just one whole section be Commercial.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
I guess that my only thoughts on
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS~ COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
35
the thing are that I would have a tendency to agree with
it, especially since across the street is the Health
Department and it seems like to me that this would be an
excellent area to have some type of medical facility such
as a doctor's office or something like that, since it is
located so close to the Health Department.
And I guess that my other -- and this is not what
Charlie is talking about, but along -- I feel like that if
you need to have the dividing line for the Residential and
the Commercial at Jefferson Avenue and not the lot behind
them or the lot that's abutting Jefferson. Because the lot
that's abutting that's on the other side of that lot is New
Market and it's zoned Commercial but the lot behind it is
Residential. So, they would not be able to use the entire
lot there if they wanted to put in some type of a
commercial building.
MS. EDWARDS: Are you recommending that that entire
block be Commercial, or -- I don't understand the
dividing.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: From Flagler to -- from Flagler
to Dade, yes. That the entire block there on Jefferson
Avenue on the east side -- west -- east side of Jefferson
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
36
Avenue should all be Commercial there to even it up.
mean, I just feel like that there is no road or anything
that is separating the two lots. And so, Jefferson is the
road. And that way, if there was a building to be built
there, then they could use the entire portion and only --
instead of only using part of it.
MR. CUYLER: Madam Chairman, let me just note one
thing. You need to --
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: For the record?
MR. CUYLER: For the record, Ken Cuyler, County
Attorney. You need to make a finding if -- if, for
example, both of those are compatible zoning designations,
you need to go with the one that complies with the Land Use
Plan. In order to have something that is different from
your Land Use Plan in the Comprehensive Plan, you need to
basically find that that is a compatible district and the
other one is not a compatible district.
That is one way you can differentiate. That's really
the only way you can differentiate.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I understand. For example, on
the block between Flagler and Escambia on fronting C-4
there on the corner of Flagler, there's a grocery store and
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
37
what we call a Strip Commercial area that's along C-4.
MS. EDWARDS: Fronting New Market?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Fronting New Market. If you will
look right there on Flagler and Jefferson, there's two lots
there that are not part of the rezone; and that's because
there's a beauty shop that's there. And then the rest of
that area in there is designated to be Residential but it
is going to be abutting a grocery store at the back of a
grocery store and there's not -- I mean, there's not that
much of an area in there for real buffer area. Right now,
the Sheriff's Department is allowing them to park a semi
truck in there and the semi trucks are tied. I mean so,
you know, we know how long a semi truck is-and, you know,
I mean I --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Isn't that the same situation,
though, in Naples Park? The same sort of situation along
U.S. 41 and we have got Commercial designation along a
major thoroughfare, but there are Residential lots to the
west and one of the concerns was the compatibility.
So, I mean that logic, I think, could be used as --
aren't all of these -- isn't this all currently zoned C-47
MS. EDWARDS: Yes.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
38
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You could make the same argument
for everything. Because once you've done it, say directly
across the street, it's all developed as commercial.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: But on the west side of
Jefferson, it's only a residential area until you get down
to Immokalee Drive where we're talking about Shelly's
locksmith space, which is there on the corner across the
street from the Health Department.
MR. GALLOPS: I mean, it just seems to me that if
everything is abutting Jefferson, on the south side of
Jefferson you are making Residential. Well, a lot of these
lots that are abutting Jefferson are also abutting
Immokalee Drive. So, I don't see why you just don't Go
towards Shelly's west side and Go up to make that whole
block, leave it Commercial.
public health office there.
Like Anne said, there is the
And if any future development
was needed around that area, that would make for a -- you
know, an ideal area instead of making -- you know, Shelly's
little place there is Going to be Commercial and then
everything else around it is Going to be Residential.
It would seem like it would block everything up a lot
better by just Going through Shelly's -- I Guess everyone
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
39
knows what I'm talking about -- Shelly's west side and just
going north to Jefferson and leaving that whole corner,
which will -- you know, all of those lots will be abutting
Immokalee Drive as well as Jefferson.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Jimmie, you own some property
right there and you've got a duplex or two?
JIMMIE: I have two houses right there behind the
bakery, which is on the corner of Jefferson and Escambia.
MS. EDWARDS: Well, I just wanted to mention that when
we were designating this area Residential, we discussed it
quite a bit with the technical advising committee and it
was pretty much unanimous that this area is more
Residential in character than Commercial. The reason why
we split those blocks between Flagler and Dade was because
we thought it was -- it would be more appropriate to have
Commercial in your -- behind you rather than facing it if
we brought the Commercial all the way to Jefferson Avenue.
But that was -- a lot of discussion, it was determined
by the technical advisory committee that Residential would
be more appropriate; and that's why the designation is the
way it is.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: When we held the public workshop
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
40
here with the commissioners, at that time I brought it up
again; and I think that the Planning Commission recommended
that that entire block there be left Commercial so that it
can be developed and not be actually abutting a
Residential. I mean, you know, my problem is that -- and
Commissioners, if you'll look at the map, from Escambia to
Dade is completely vacant with the exception of the small
building that is abutting New Market Road.
And so, to be able to put a commercial area on there,
we're not going to be able to have the setbacks (inaudible)
a stripped zoning, the same as what we have got where Shop
Worth is now from Escambia to Flagler, whereas if the
entire block was able to be used, then there wouldn't be a
Residential area that is going to be abutting it. To where
we would have to have setbacks, there would be a road that
would be separating it. And I mean, you know --
MS. EDWARDS: If we do leave this as Commercial, it
would be -- it will be inconsistent with the Master Plan;
and that would mean a plan amendment because the properties
were not considering anything that's improved in this
rezoning process. The entire block, as you said, is
unimproved and it would be consistent to rezone it to
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
41
Residential rather than keeping it Commercial.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Is there anyone else -- is there
anyone else in the audience that wants to speak to this
matter? Mr. Thomas.
MR. THOMAS: Commissioner Volpe, that parcel that
Commissioner Goodnight is talking about between Flagler and
Dade, that block is not a very deep block. You understand?
He was trying to explain this just a minute ago, and you
have the Strip Commercial that's almost abutting on the
back property llne Going --
COMMISSIONER HASSE: What is your -- I'm not wanting
to interrupt, but what is not very deep?
Between New Market Road and Jefferson
MR. THOMAS:
Avenue.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
How much is not?
MR. THOMAS: 150 feet. And the development that faces
New Market Road is all the way back on the back property
line, you know. It's a long, long strip building. And if
you don't do some of the things she says, you're not Going
to be able to find many Residentials are Going to be able
to butt up from that from facing on the Jefferson side.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Thomas, I will just
, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL '~.
?
42
identify these by -- I think our block numbers, Block 30
and 36.
MR. THOMAS: 30 and 36.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: You're suggesting those entire
blocks remain commercial?
MR. THOMAS: Yes. Use the middle of Jefferson Avenue
to separate the Commercial from the Residential.
COMMISSIONER SALrNDERS: What about Block 40?
MR. THOMAS: I think they should bring that line down
and then turn south on Dade Avenue and come over to Adams
and down to Immokalee Drive. So, you pick up --
MR. GALLOPS: You will being changing 36 -- 36 and 40,
leaving it all Commercial.
MR. THOMAS: I would bring the line down the street
like that, turn down Dade, and come this way and make this
all Commercial here, Immokalee Drive here.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Let's deal with Block --
MR. THOMAS: For the record, I'm talking about half of
Block 30 and 36, let that stay Commercial, and all of Block
40 Commercial.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And also Block 39 would be.
MR. THOMAS: That's already Commercial.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
43
MS. EDWARDS: Just to know that they're currently
Residential properties or developed Residential on Blocks
30 and 40, so we would be chanGinG those Residential
properties. Well, it's currently Commercial; and they're
nonconforming, so we'll just keep them nonconforming.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
There are three units.
MR. GALLOPS: One
There's two units in Block 30.
right beside the beauty shop.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: And then there's two units that
you have that are on Escambia.
MR. THOMAS: Right.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Do you have an objection?
MR. GALLOPS: I don't care either way.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I guess to -- I've raised an
objection about -- nobody's has called me, I haven't heard
any objections of the thing at all, but during the public
-- during the workshop we had here, I raised the question
then and I'm raising the question again, that I don't feel
like that to allow -- I mean, I had rather see that entire
area be a Residential area than I had to see us put
Commercial on the front and Residential on the back because
I can't see anybody, even habitat, trying to build that's
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
44
going to be abutting because there's not going to be the
setbacks that need to be there from the Residential area --
I mean from the Commercial area. And that's my only
concern about the thing, is that if we divided the road up,
there's only 3 units in the entire parcel there.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Are all the properties along New
Market on the -- I guess that would be the --
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: Northeast.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- northeast, are they all
developed out as Commercial currently? That's all
developed property?
MS. EDWARDS: Most of it, yes.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: From Flagler to Escambia abutting
New Market Road is developed.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
Mr. Thomas was saying.
As Residential.
As Commercial.
Commercial?
Yes.
Well, I think that's what
And I think what he's concerned
about, whether we shouldn't make all of those units
Commercial so that you didn't have a residence backing up
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
45
New Market, those two blocks.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN:
all developed also?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
Escambia and Dade, is that
No. From Escambia to Dade there
is only one small building that's about middleways, which
would probably be about ll, 12, 10, some -- 9, 10,
somewhere around there that's abutting New Market.
But to give you-all an example, remember that the
Immokalee Bakery had to come in for a variance because it
was under new ownership and they were going in to do some
renovations and they -- and because of the renovations that
they were doing, they had to get a variance because the
back of their property did not have the proper setbacks
from residents that Mr. Spires had. And we had a long
rigamarole to trying get a variance for the bakery that was
already preexisting, but because it was sold and under new
ownership, then we had to come back through the variance
process. And like many of you-all, I hate to see those
variances, and so we have the opportunity now to rectify
that some.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The only reservation that I have
is that this has been through the process. We are trying
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
46
to bring these zoning classifications into conformity with
an adopted Master Plan, and what we're doing is we're going
back and we're revisiting the Master Plan, it sounds to
me. And there really doesn't appear to have been any
changes in circumstances with new developments and the
like. So, I don't know, Mr. Cuyler said that we need to
make some sort of a finding.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Can I suggest that we see what
the consensus of the Board is on this. And I will start,
if you would like. I'll support the staff's recommendation
in reference to the 6933 South.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I opposed that recommendation.
And my reason is that during the public workshop and the
planning commission, we were both under the impression that
this was all going to be Commercial.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: I would like the get back to
Mr. Thomas again. Are you supporting the staff's
recommendation here?
MR. THOMAS: No, no.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: It seems like we are splitting
this. We have the same concerns as the Planning
Commission, as Commissioner Goodnight said about how that
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
47
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS COLLIER COUK'T¥, NAPLES, FL 33962
thing would shape out. And from Flagler to Dade, north and
east of Jefferson needs to stay Commercial.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Are you speaking as Mr. Thomas or
as the Planning Commission?
MR. THOMAS: As I remember what happened at the
Planning Commission, that's what we recommended.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is that what the Planning
Commission has recommended?
MS. EDWARDS: I don't recall, but it might have been
recommended but it was never adopted that way.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Flagler to Dade along Jefferson.
MS. EDWARDS: Can I just add one other comment. The
ownership patterns in these areas that we're discussing
right now, there's -- there may be a few of them where the
ownership extends from New Market to Jefferson, but for the
most part that doesn't occur. And if we do leave this as
Commercial, I'm not sure we can control Commercial fronting
Jefferson and not develop in the way it's already
developing right now because the ownership pattern is not
such that would lend itself to that.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: How is it developing right now?
MS. EDWARDS: With Commercial fronting -- you know,
48
it's -- the blocks are split. There is a portion of it 150
feet that fronts New Market, and then the other 150 feet
would front Jefferson.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: What's that, an easement in the
middle there?
MS. EDWARDS: It looks like an easement.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: It's not developed at all. There
hasn't been any development in there in 20 years.
MR. CtrYLER: Madam Chairman, if you're inclined to
have them designated as Commercial, I would suggest that
you go back and direct staff to have a comp plan amend-
ment. And ultimately you're going to have to do it anyway;
and if that's what you want to do, then the appropriate way
to do it is go ahead and amend it. I think Barbara said it
could probably be done by March, if you're inclined to go
in that direction.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: What's that going to do with the
whole plan? That's the problem.
MS. EDWARDS: We are going to have to --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Why don't we finish with the
consensus of the Board first, if we could. I'm supportive
of the staff's recommendation.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COSLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
49
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: I'm reluctant to make any
changes in the staff's recommendation unless I can be
convinced that it's a good action to ask for a Growth Plan
Amendment.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, I have a problem because
I can see the sense of what Mr. Thomas is speaking of now.
And knowing -- not knowing that much about this particular
lot, it seems to make sense to make a larger portion of it
Commercial in there. Because, as he said, Residential in
the backing up to Commercial isn't the best idea, in my way
of thinking. So, I have some questions about them. Okay.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
this area. Mr. Pitts?
MR. PITTS: I'm Robert Pitts.
Is there any other discussion on
I own Lots 21 throug~
30 -- 21 through 26 and Lot 36. Behind me I'll have
Commercial and on the side of me I'll have Commercial.
front will be Residential if you change it. I would like
to see it left as it is, C-4.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: All Commercial?
MR. PITTS: All commercial. The two blocks she's
talking about.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
It seems to make sense to me.
In
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
5O
MR. PITTS: Why would you split it?
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Don't ask me.
MR. PITTS: I've asked them a bunch of times.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Is there any other discussion on
this? I guess that when the consensus was taken, it was
also taken on Lot 40 or Section or --
MS. EDWARDS: What was the consensus? 30 and 36
and 40?
MR. GALLOPS: The only thing I would suggest was, the
little triangular piece that you already left out as
Commercial, is that you start at the western edge of that
triangular piece and go back to the northeast to block it
out because all of those lots -- or the majority of those
lots are going to be facing Immokalee Drive, anyway. And
that would be better by blocking up, so that part would be
Residential, part'would be Commercial, and that you
wouldn't have any Residential lots as you have got them
right now.
The Residential lots are going to be backing up
against Immokalee Drive and against Shelly Carter's
Commercial property. Do you understand that? I can draw
better than I can speak, sometimes.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
51
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Is there a consensus to complete
that or not complete that? What is staff's recommendation?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I believe that it takes four
votes to change the zoning, and I think three commissioners
support the staff and one did not. Commissioner Hasse is
not sure.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
entirety of this. I go along with staff.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Perhaps let's see if there's
some other solution to this, then. Does anybody else have
any suggestions?
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: The other thing that's at
least worthy of discussion is consider taking those blocks
between Flagler and Escambia and Dade and just take that
entire section and leave it at the C-4 Commercial zoning,
and we would have to get a Growth Management Plan to
accomplish that as well. But, you know, I can see some
rationale, some good rationale in con~:~dering that kind of
an approach if the rest of the Board ,;ould consider that.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's what: I'm concerned with.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: I understand that. The rest
of it, as far as I'm concerned, ought to be what staff is
Well, I don't want to support the
52
recommendinG.
MS. EDWARDS: So, that would be Blocks 30 and 36.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: That's correct. That's open
for consensus; we need to find out. If that's amenable and
acceptable, we can move on right away. If it's not, then
we can move on right away, also, because we don't have a
consensus.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
that.
don't have any problem with
COMMISSIONER HASSE:. I'll buy that.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: I'll buy that.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The only reservation that I have
is when we talked about Block 36, all of that property
along New Market is undeveloped. There, was only one
building there. I would support -- if we're Going to do
that, if the concern is those properties that already have
been developed as Commercial and they're Going to have
Commercial across the street and they're Going to have
Commercial in their back yard, I can support the redesigna-
tion of Block 30, which is between Flagler and Escambia
where you've Got all that property along New Market, but
the same argument does not carry from Escambia to Dade.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
53
Those are undeveloped. There's one small building
that's been developed, so I would support the concerns
about how those properties would develop. I can do the one
section there, the one block. If you would, Block 30.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: There are no buildings on 36. Is
that what you're telling me?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: There's one building somewhere
around Lot 10 facing New Market.
COMMISSIONER $HANNAHAN: We may have a consensus on
the whole package, starting with you, Burr. Let's take a
look at the whole package from Escambia to Dade as C-4 and
let's see if we can get a consensus on that, that section
that we've been talking about all night.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
number.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
that.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
that.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN:
all right?
Let's talk in terms of section
30 and 36.
I don't have any problem with
I don't have a problem with
We have a consensus. Is that
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
54
COMMISSIONER MASSE: Where does Hike --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: As I said, it doesn't make any
difference at this point but I'd support 30 but it doesn't
-- 36, you can make the same argument ~his Gentleman has
been making down here at Block 40 if that's the logic that
you've used. So, I can support 30 but I can't support 36.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
So, you don't go for it?
Correct.
Then on the lot, Section 40, that
is the consensus to leave that as it is or to change that
to where that it's leaving it up.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAMAN:
it as it is.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
MS. EDWARDS: Okay.
Staff recommendation, leave
Next map.
The next map would be --
MR. GALLOPS: What did you do on that?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: The consensus of the Board was to
take the lots from Flagler to Dade that are abutting
Jefferson and go through the Plan Amendment to keep that
all C-4, but Section 40 is to leave that as Residential.
MS. EDWARDS: The last map would be 6931 North,
because we have already discussed the --
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
55
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
MS. EDWARDS:
discussing now?
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
MS. EDWARDS:
Lake Trafford Road.
Where does that show on here?
Which property, the one we are
Yes.
It would be this fraction on here along
That property is along Lake Trafford
Road and just to t~e east of the Lake Trafford Elementary
School. It is currently zoned.C-3 and we are proposing to
zone it to A-2, which is consistent with everything that's
surrounding it.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: What's on the very corner of it
there?
MS. EDWARDS: On the corner where it's not shaded
is -- currently, Lake Trafford is a convenience store.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
That is fine.
I was just going to inquire about
the -- what the reason for rezoninG it from C-3 to A-2
would be.
MS. EDWARDS:
our neighborhood center and a little Residential zoning
district. The property that's to the north of it, that is
pretty much surrounding, is all zoned A-2. So, we -- for
That particular property is right now by
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
56
compatibility purposes, we propose to rezone it to A-2.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: A-2, you are going to go --
MS. EDWARDS: With that zoning, you're allowed to do
1 unit per five acres. But under the land use designation,
they've got several options because that particular
property has 2 designations on it. Within the neighborhood
center, they can get up to 12 units per acre. Within the
portion outside of the neighborhood center, they can do up
to 4 units per acre.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Is that presently zoned -- the
property to the north of it, is it zoned A-2 or --
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, A-2. It's all under one owner-
ship.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I guess the only question that I
would have is the little shaded out area between the handy
store and the fire station, is there a reason for that or
it's ~ust --
MS. EDWARDS: It's all one ownership, and that's an
out parcel. It would be splitting the .larger parcel,
actually. The handy store --
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Are there any speakers here? Are
there any questions from the audience? All right. Then
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
57
that's fine.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: And with the fire station
right next to it, what are the other two parcels there?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: A church and a water plant. The
water plant is the small area, and the larger area is the
church.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: And the fire station.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Are we done with the maps? Are
we done with these maps?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I don't want to belabor the
point, but just to go back to that discussion about the
Commercial, we might want to consider perhaps allowing
those properties to develop out as P.U.D.'s as we have done
along Golden Gate Parkway because I can envision these are
all very small lots and if you allow each one of them to
develop out as a separate Commercial use, you're going to
be back to Strip Commercial. And I think about access
along New Market and Jefferson, it just doesn't make a lot
of sense to me.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I would even suggest to staff and
Mr. Pitts -- and Mr. Gallops is Gone -- but, you know, it's
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
~8
got to go through a Master Plan amendment anyhow. But, you
know, I wouldn't even be willing to compromise to look at
Lot -- at this Section 36 as, you know, a multi-family and
no Commercial at all.
I mean, my problem is strictly the narrow size of the
lot and it abutting to a residential area. And so, I think
that staff needs to look at this and bring back some better
recommendations on the thing.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, the recommendation was to
rezone it to RMF-6 so that would allow multi-family in all
of that.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: But the front part of it is to
be Commercial, so it would not -- I mean, you know, you're
not -- there's not that much of an area in there at all, I
mean.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You're saying -- going back to
36, you're saying that you would support actually rezoning
the property that fronts on New Market to change that from
Commercial to --
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
That would certainly be a
suggestion. I mean it's either -- it should either be all
Residential or either all Commercial.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
59
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: We ha~e made it all
Commercial at this point in time.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: At this time we have asked staff
to make it all Commercial.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: Mike's concerned about
ingress and egress.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Allow each one of those
individual lots to develop out for stores, it's just going
to be a disaster there.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I think that's a good idea, and
that might be something that staff could look at to see if
we could put some restrictions to it that would be similar
to what we did there on Golden Gate.
MS. STUDENT: If you do follow the sample that we
followed in the Golden Gate Master Plan, this -- I just
want to make two points. First of all, I think we have to
have a plan amendment to address that.
And secondly: The way we treated this in Golden Gate,
if for some reason there was a problem, a combination to
achieve the necessary size for P.U.D. there would have to
be some kind of procedure set up where an individual wasn't
able to do that. They would still have use of their
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
60
property. Just for the record I want to make that point.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: We're going to have to go through
a plan, anyhow; so, it's something we could look at.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I just -- if your concern now
would be just having consistency on Block 36 to have all of
that as RMF-6, could the Board take that action this
evening, or would that have to --
sure.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
MS. EDWARDS:
That would have to be a plan, I'm
It's the same thing because half of that
block we have got designated as Commercial, half of it is
designated as Residential. If the Board chooses to
designate it all as Residential, then we would have to do
a plan amendment for the other half and --
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: And I'm sure that Mr. Pitts would
object to that because he was objecting to us changing it.
So, it's something that needs to be worked out that I think
we need to look into more detail with it.
Is there anything else on that one item?
MS. EDWARDS: No. That concludes all the properties
under the first item on the agenda.
CMAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Is there anyone that needs to
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
61
speak on this first item? All right.
to close the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
close the public hearing.
aye.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
(None opposed)
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
Then I need a motion
So moved.
I have a motion and a second to
All in favor signify by saying
Aye.
Aye.
Opposed.
The motion carries unanimous.
Madam Chairman, I will make a
All
What is the pleasure of the Board with this Zoning
Amendment R-91-77
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
motion to approve that with the changes.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: Second the motion.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I have a motion and a second.
there any discussion? Then I will call the question.
in favor signify by saying aye.
(Chorus of ayes)
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: opposed?
(None opposed)
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
62
.CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
The next item.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
The motion carries unanimously.
Is there a required second
hearing on this, or is it just the one hearing?
MS. EDWARDS: Just the one hearing.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: The next item is P.U.D. 88-741.
MS. EDWARDS: We're discussing this area right here on
the map, is the Heritage P.U.D., the Commercial.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Would you show that again,
please. I'm sorry.
MS. EDWARDS: Its 29. It would be this area in here,
and the Commercial tract is what is inconsistent with the
Immokalee Area Master Plan. There's a map in your packet
that identifies the change that's going to occur. The
current Commercial tract has more frontage than depth.
Under our designation and the plan that allows
Commercial within a Planned Unit Development, one of the
criteria is to have no more frontage on your Commercial
tract than depth; and that's to avoid the Strip Commercial
pattern that we've seen so much of. And the other one is
a stipulation that requires that no construction of
Commercial designation be permitted until 30 percent of the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
63
project has commenced construction.
And those two things are what needs to be changed
within the P.U.D. documents to make it consistent with the
Immokalee Area Master Plan. What's been done is we have
looked at the P.U.D. document, and in some way we have
updated it to reflect some of the new changes that have
been made required for P.U.D.'s.
There's two stipulations that were added to the
document on page 1.1 indicating the subject property meets
all the criteria of the Immokalee Area Master Plan, and the
project is consistent with the Immokalee Area Master Plan
and Future Land Use Element.
We've also made some minor changes to the language.
Wherever it referred to the Zoning Director, it was -- the
terminology was changed to Planning Services Manager; and
wherever it referred to Natural Resources Department, it
was changed to Project Review. ,
The two changes that were made to make this P.U.D.
consistent with the Immokalee Area Master Plan was the
configuration of the Commercial property was changed to
smaller acreage. Its current acreage was 13 acres, and
it's been revised to a 10.5-acre tract. Where the road
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
64
goes through on your -- the map, there's a map on the back
of your packet that shows the new provision.
There were two Commercial properties split by the
roadway, and there was a community use facility project
that could have gone either way. Community use or
Commercial. The two parcels, Commercial that was
designated Commercial and Community Use/Future Commercial
are now incorporated into the Community Use facility to
include a total of 14.8 acres.
The reduction in Commercial acreage now makes the
P.U.D. conform with that criteria that would not allow more
frontage than depth, and what's been done to the P.U.D.
document is a stipulation's been added under I believe it's
page 6.4 in the P.U.D. document. "J" has been added for
development of Commercial tract, which would not allow
development of the Commercial until 30 percent of the
project had commenced construction and was consistent with
the stipulation under the P.U.D. Commercial designation and
the future land use or in the Immokalee.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Changing that --
MS. EDWARDS: That's what's been changed. This
identifies the change.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
65
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
P.U.D.'s that's been documented?
MS. EDWARDS: Right, uh-huh.
it consistent with all the other P.U.D.'s.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
MS. EDWARDS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
Consistent with the other
This addition would make
In the Immokalee area?
Didn't we on -- was it Randall
Boulevard, didn't we waive that 30 percent requirement
there to allow the development to go ahead with the
Commercial and advance?
MS. EDWARDS: Yes. The Board can authorize that
waiver of that particular stipulation. The requirement in
the Master Plan says 30 percent of the infrastructure or
the project must be developed before or commenced con-
struction prior to the construction of the Commercial; but
if so authorized by the Board, then that provision can be
waived. And those are all the changes that were made to
What is that community use,
this P.U.D. document.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
again?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
hospital is to be built.
That's where the proposed
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
66
'MS. EDWARDS: Right. That would be hospital or any
other type of community use. There's a list of what would
be permitted under the community use within the document.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
Where is it?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
We don't have that right here.
Page 7.1.
I got a number right.
On the bottom there.
Is there any discussion?
there anyone from the audience that wants to speak on
Petition P.U.D. 88-7417
MR. THOMAS: That's the Heritage P.U.D.?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll make a motion to close
the public hearing.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: All in favor signify by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Opposed?
(None opposed)
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: The motion carries unanimously.
What is the pleasure of the Board?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
67
~ COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: Madam Chairman, I make a
motion we approve Petition P.U.D. 88-741 as recommended by
the staff and CCPC.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Seconded.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
there any discussion?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
I have a motion and second. Is
Just on the question.
I notice
that with respect to traffic impact, that it is anticipated
that the development of this project will -- may have some
significant traffic impact along Madison and New Market, in
that area, and I was just wondering if it looks like all
the developer's going to do is coordinate his efforts, but
it doesn't appear that there's any dedication of any
right-of-way or any other significant contribution to the
traffic impact aspects of this development.
MS. EDWARDS: No. None of that section was changed
because it was a staff-initiated amendment to the Master
Plan and we changed only that that would make it
consistent.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: And I think that the right-of-way
already belongs to the County. I know the right-of-way
belongs to the County on 29, and I'm almost sure that there
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
68
is enough right-of-way there on Madison to enlarge it or do
whatever that needs to be done that is already owned by the
County.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN: If there is any singlization,
they've paid their fair share?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Right, and all the impact fees.
I'll call for the question.
aye.
COMMISSIONER SHANNAHAN:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
(None opposed)
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
All in favor signify by saying
Aye.
Opposed.
The motion carries unanimously.
There is nothing else to be brought before the Board? Is
there anything that any of the speakers, any of the public
needs to say?
(No responses)
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Then I appreciate everybody for
coming, and this meeting is adjourned.
(End of proceedings)
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
August 12, 1991
.here being no further business for the Good of the County, the
was adjourned by Order of the Chair.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS
CONTROL
GILES, C .E15. RK
.n~e~am~es approved by the
Board on
.'esented '~'Z./ or as corrected
69
STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF COLLIER )
I, Jeffrey W. Marquardt, Deputy Official Court Reporter, do
hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings were taken before
me at the date and place as stated in the caption hereto at
Page 1 hereof; that the foregoing computer-aided transcription,
consisting of pages numbered 1 through 68, inclusive, is a true
record of my Stenograph notes taken at said proceedings.
Dated this 13th day of September, 1991.
Jeffrey W. Marquardt Deputy
Deputy Official Court Reporter
20th Judicial Circuit
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962