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BCC Minutes 08/12/1991 S (2)1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF CO~ISSIONERS IN THE ~&ATTER OF: LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE WORKSHOP (Part ~;o of Two Sessions) Heard by the Board of County Commissioners, commencing at 9:30 a.m., Monday, August 12, 1991, in the Third Floor Board Room, Building F, Collier County Government Center 3301 East Tamiami Trail, Naples, Florida 33962, as reported by Connie S. Potts, Deputy Official Court Reporter. Chairman Ann Goodnight Vice-Chairman Michael J. Volpe Commissioner Max A. Hasse Commissioner Burr L. Saunders Commissioner Richard S. Shanahah BOARD MEMBERS: OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 175 order. PROCEEDINGS CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I'll call the workshop to This is second workshop on the Unified Development Code, and we're going to start off with Article One. Is that correct, Barbara? ~IS. CACCHIONE: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: The general provisions. MS. CACCHIONE: Good morning, Commissioners. My name is Barbara Cacchione, with your Long-range Planning Staff. What I would like to do this morning is to begin my presentation by giving you an overview of the changes from our existing -- changes to the present code. The draft before you was developed over a period of raany months in conjunction with Long-range Planning Staff and Planning Services Staff and the consultant, Bill Merrill. We have since reviewed that over the past three and four months with the committee that was set up by this Board to assist in that review process, and those meetings were all open to the public. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 176 What we're going -- I would like to begin by doing is giving you an overview of changes. And to assist you with that, the first stack of material that I handed out to you this morning is a comparison. It's an outline of proposed changes. It compares our existing zoning code to the proposed changes and it identifies where those specific changes do occur from our present code. It is in much more detail than what I'll go into this morning, but it's there for your review. Some of the major changes entail a combination of the A-1 District and A-2 District. We currently have two agricultural districts. The move is to consolidate them into one rural agricultural district. We have also consolidated the mobile home subdivision district and the mobile home rental park into one district. The districts that were deleted in this code are: Recreation in Open Space District, the C-5 Commercial-Industrial District, the IL, Light Industrial District, and the C-6 District was changed to a C-1 slash Transitional District. Districts that were added include the RSF-6 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 177 District, the single family, which permits six units per acre, a Conservation District, a Public Use District and the Community Facility District. This last district, the Community Facility District, is the district the Board has asked us to look at for zoning re-evaluation for some of those commercial properties that were being rezoned to residential but were more suitable to a non-residential use. We have gone back more to using our existing zoning districts in categories than we had first anticipated we might do. We still have the categories RSF-1, RFS-2, Three, Four, Five. We have added the RSF-6. We have kept the multi-family districts in their same names. However, we have restructed the RMF-6 District in the this first group for further rezoning. We have kept in it there so that we wouldn't make all RMF-6 property like Naples Park non-conforming, but we did not want to perpetuate that district in the future. In the Commercial District what we have done, mainly, is changed the terminology. CO~ISSIONER HASSE: You're not taking this directly OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 178 out of this book, are you? ~tS. CACCHIONE: That book gives you the specific comparisons in each district, category by category, of what the changes are. C05~ISSIONER HASSE: Is there a way that we can follow what you're saying in there? MS. CACCHIONE: What I'm just doing is giving you the summary of those changes. COSD~ISSIOMER HASSE: I see. Okay. MS. CACCHIONE: In the Commercial Districts we have gone to a system where we have tried to use the Standard Industrial Classification Coding System, and we have changed the terms of many of the uses. This was done because we felt it would be an easier method of interpreting what uses are permitted in a district and which are not. The SIC codes are very specific, and it will lead, I think, to an ease of interpretation. The Industrial District still needs some work. We are going to try to change that into the SIC Code System. We have not completed that yet. And we have also increased landscaping and OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 179 buffering. CO~ISSIONER VOLPE: MS. CACHIONE: Classification. What is SIC? Standard Industrial Code The reason we have prepared that sheet that has been handed out to you is when a person comes in and they currently have C-3 zoning, they're going to want to know if their use is still in there, and so this gives then, an ease to compare if it's still in there under the new classification system. We have changed the terms but not the uses to any great degree. CO~ISSIOMER VOLPE: What did we do in those instances where we were talking about the non-conforming and then we talked about rehabilitation and where you have destruction and reconstruction, in terms of the uses in those districts? Do you understand my question? We had a debate. MS. CACCHIONE: Redevelopment? COM~IISSIONER VOLPE: Redevelopment, yes. MS. CACCHIONE: Yes. Basically I think the final determination by the Board at the conclusion of their OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 180 February 5th meeting was that properties would be able to redevelop consistent with their zoning district. So whatever zoning district was on the property, they would be able to develop with those uses in that district. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But we would be able to redevelop whatever the existing use was at the time of the destruction? MS. CACCHIONE: If it was a conforming use in the district. CO~ISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. MS. CACCHIONE: We did not allow them to build non-conforming uses in their zoning. If they were non-conforming with zoning, they would be non-conforming, and that would be the end of it. Basically the code is set up -- that is the general overview of the major changes. We have also increased landscaping and buffering and Mr. Delate from Planning Services will give a more detailed presentation at the conclusion of my presentation on the changes between our existing code and what's in the code today. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 181 : I know that was very brief. If there are any questions about the differences, I can take those now or I can go forward. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How about just the specific question. Last week we talked about our excavation ordinance and we amended it to allow that type of activity in the A-1 district, and now you're combining them into one rural agricultural district and we have made some distinctions about being able to excavate or about part of the water management system. How will that be combined into this one district now? MS. CACCHIONE: the Agricultural District, for earth mining. So that will be able to occur. COS~ISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. That's fine. How about the issue that we have kind of heard concerning accessory uses with respect to churches? Have we done anything in terms of clarifying that issue? MS. CACCHIONE: The one section that is in here but I believe it's a conditional use, in OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 182 needs a lot of work is the definition section, and we will have that prepared for the first Planning Commission Workshop in that we may do a revised definition of churches. We feel that the ordinance is pretty clear on what other uses are and how they are permitted in the district, but it may also be a good idea to clarify definition of church as well. CO~4ISSIONER VOLPE: And the accessory uses. MS. CACHIONE.. Yeah. CO~4ISSIONER HASSE: Tell me, Barbara, guest houses added as an accessory use. What change has come about with that? MS. CACCHIONE: In which district, Commissioner? In the -- COS~ISSIONER HASSE: Estates District. MS. CACCHIONE: That's basically the same as it currently exists today. We did not change that. CO~MISSIONER HASSE: CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: All right. Good. Barbara, I have a question. With us combining the two districts, A-1 and A-2, into just an agricultural district, in a lot of the A-2 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthousc, Naples, Florida 33962 183 Districts, there is a lot of development as far as single-family homes and then in some areas there is even some mobile home overlays where there's mobile homes on five acres, or whatever the lot that has been designated. What type of provisions have we to say that an agricultural section such as -- such as nurseries, plant farms and things like that, where they're growing in these plant housings, to be added in areas like that? Is there some setbacks and all to where that there is not going to be much of a problem on the preexisting neighborhoods? MS. CACCHIONE: Basically when we combined the two districts, we made single family a permitted use. Prior to that in the A-1 District, there was only an accessory use. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Uh-huh. MS. CACCHIONE: And we have now made them a permitted use. The nursery is also a permitted use, as well. We do have setbacks in there which are larger than they are for other districts, and we're dealing with plots that are still required to be five acres in size. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 184 CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Okay. But the setbacks are going to be more than what they are in other districts so that there won't be much of an impact on established neighborhoods even though the neighborhoods are one unit per five acres? MS. CACCHIONE: The setbacks are larger than in other districts. That's true. By combining those districts, we really did away with the A-1 District which you had to have farming in order to build a single-family structure. They have kept the mobile home overlays exactly as we are today, and we have recommended no change to that. So wherever they were in those locations, mainly in the Immokalee area, they still exist in those same locations. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Well, I guess my concern is out in Corkscrew and up there where I live there is a large number of residential areas where one unit is on five acres; but there is also several pieces of large land, like twenty-five or thirty acres, and right now they're in livestock. But I was thinking, you know, what if they came in OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 185 and put some plant houses or actively farming in there, which would definitely cause an impact to the preexisting neighborhood. MS. CACCHIONE: That, the setbacks would be basically, I think they're fifty feet, and that would be the setback. We do require buffering between agriculture and residential, but these districts will be zoned agricultural as well. So there won't be any specific buffering required as compared to if it, let's say, if it were a single-family, three-unit-per-acre subdivision. Then there would be specific buffering required; but if they're both agricultural, there would be no extra buffering required. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Well, the reason I was asking, you know, was out in Corkscrew when you had that pit that the neighbors were very much concerned about it, but that came before the Board. But, you know, there were other things that could take place out there and in my area that, you know, that we would have little or no con -- the Board would have nothing to do with; but, you know, it would still OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 C.,- 186 certainly cause some problems to the neighborhood. MS. CACCHIONE: Any of the permitted uses would have the same degree of setback. The conditional uses may be increased by the Board as they review those. If you would like, it's something that we can look at it as increasing those setbacks for some of those uses, if that's something -- in combining these districts where single family is also a permitted use, we may want to look at expanding the setbacks on some of those uses. And that's something that we can look at and prepare for you for the next meeting. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Also in Corkscrew we had some problem with dog kennels, which was a permitted use, but it was very disturbing to the neighborhood. And, I mean, you know, there are just some things like that that in an established neighborhood, even though it's in an A-2 District that, you know, I think that we could end up having more problems with. And that was my only concern over it. I didn't have anything, you know, necessarily that I was looking at. It was just the over-all picture of it. COM~ISSIONER VOLPE: Ms. Cacchione, in the Estates OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 187 Area, you're proposing to add as a conditional use a child care center? MS. CACCHIONE: That's correct. That is a conditional use. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Now, is that going to be consistent with our Growth Management Plan? CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Yes, it is. MS. CACCHIONE: In the Growth Management Plan we have made child care centers a permitted use in the urban area so that they do have the flexibility of locating in both residential and commercial areas within the urban designated area. CHAIrmAN GOODNIGHT: This is only an owner-occupied child care center. MS. CACCHIONE: The proposed change is to take it from owner-occupied -- CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Oh. I'm sorry. 5~S. CACCHIONE: Where you basically have the single-family structure and have a certain number -- I believe it's up to twenty-five -- children maximum as an owner-occupied. You live there in the structure and you take children in on a daily basis. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 188 The child care center as a provisional use would still be reviewed for all of those items related to compatibility with surrounding areas and setbacks and the appropriate use being in the area. COP~IISSIONER VOLPE: I just have some concerns about that. I mean, it gets close to the provisional type use in the Estates Area, and this takes on a commercial type of enterprise. And you're saying that we're not limiting it to twenty, that it could be -- there is no question that they are needed. It's just a question of what we may, the problems we -- that may be encountered in those Estates Areas. MS. CACCHIONE: Conditional uses are as a change of terminology. It is what the provisional uses are today. CO~IISSIONER VOLPE: Right. MS. CACCHIONE: So that conditional use for a child care center in the Estates Area would have to be reviewed for comDliance with the Comp Plan, compatibility, property owners would be notified, and it would come before you and it would have two public hearings. CO~4MISSIONER VOLPE: I understand that. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 189 The question then becomes -- child care centers. How about adult respite centers? How about, rather than child care, someone wants to open up a facility in the Estates Area which will provide an opportunity for those who have aging parents to -- for respite. Would that allow for this type activity; and if not, why not? MS. CACCHIONE: That would fall under the unit care units, which is also a provisional use. Group housing care units, adult congregate living facilities, and there's some more. Nursing homes. COMISSIONER VOLPE: That's not allowed in the Estates Area, is it? I want to -- if you're going to put child care centers in the Estates Area, some type of a, quote, commercial type venture, then how can you just limit it to children? MS. CACCHIOME: a conditional use. COb~ISSIONER VOLPE: looking. I believe we do have it in there as Maybe you do. I'm just OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 190 COMMISSIONER HASSE: Next page, I think. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I'm not seeing it. MS. CACCHIONE= That just goes over the changes from our current -- to our existing code. If there are no changes, it won't appear on that list. And basically think that was added in when we did the group housing ordinance. MR. MERRILL: It's in there. MS. CACCHIONE: So it's current there. That's the way our ordinance exists today. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. MS. CACCHIONE: have been changed. COMMISSIOneR VOLPE: Those sheets only go over areas that Okay. MR. MERRILL: You can find that on page 2-10, where it is added. The green sheets. Page 2-10. It shows that the group care facilities are a conditional use. It's at the very top of the page. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Are we back on the green sheets? MR. MERRILL: Yes. shows up. I was just indicating where that OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 191 COS~ESSIONER VOLPE: So group care, that is -- are you saying that's being added? MR. MERRILL: Well, we changed the name of it. It was called group housing, and we have used a more universal term, which is called group care facilities, which is number five. And it also says care units and nursing homes. So you did allow, basically, the same type of thing previously. You can see that on the previous page, page 2-9. CObib~ISSIONER VOLPE: Right. MR. MERRILL: You can see that whole section crossed off. COMMISSIOMER VOLPE: With all of the debate we have had about locating churches as provisional uses in the Estates Area, and they are not, as I understand it, now allowed outside of certain areas within the Estates where we have them designated on the Growth Management Plan, but we're going allow child care centers? Or we did? I'm looking for the consistency. MS. CACCHIONE: This -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Because many of the churches -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 192 excuse me, Barbara. Many of the churches have child care centers as a part of what they're doing. MS. CACCHIONE: In the Golden Gate Master Plan, it sets forth where provisional uses can be located, and that means all provisional uses. So that was -- churches are only singled out as one provisional use, but that will affect all of the provisional uses in the Estates Area. So it will include -- the locational criteria in the Golden Gate Master Plan will be the first test they have to meet, and then the second test will be the zoning ordinance test, which is compatibility. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How about the Estates Area which is north of Pine Ridge Road, which I don't believe is a part of the Golden Gate Master Plan? CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: COS~ISSIONER VOLPE: COMMISSIONER HASSE: Yes, it is. Is it? Yes. MS. CACCHIONE: All of the Estates Area is a part of the Golden Gate Master Plan. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Thank you. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 193 COMMISSIONER HASSE: It was my thinking that we had originally in the Golden Gate Master Plan had youth centers or child care centers which was basically only to be placed in activity zone. MS. CACCHIONE: For the most part, that's true. There are some areas when they have provisional uses on both sides of them -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's right. MS. CACCHIONE: -- that they're allowed to infill that particular provisional use. And in transitional areas where there is a commercial use, you might be able to put a provisional use next to it. But there are I think three specific locations as to where provisional uses can be located in that Golden Gate Master Plan. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Yeah. I know. MS. CACCHIONE: That's the first test they would have to meet. Then if they met that test, they would have to look at the issues of compatibility, rezoning with conditional use. COb~ISSIONER VOLPE: What did you do with the C-6 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 194 classification? Is that still here? MS. CACCHIONE: The C-6 District has been modified to the C-1/T District. It appears in your C-1 classification, which is a commercial/professional/office type classification, and it's a transitional district. There's probably only four acres in the county that are zoned C-6 presently. So we'll change that to C-l/T, and it will be required to meet those requirements in the Comp Plan which say you have to have commercial on both sides of you, limited in lot width, and a maximum a twenty-five thousand square feet of building area. COM5IISSIONER VOLPE: I thought the C-6 zoning classification was applied to the vacant parcels along US 41 from the Lee County line all the way down to four corners and then all the way out. MS. CACCHIONE: Rezoning re-evaluation. We did rezone additional parcels. COS~IISSIONER VOLPE: acres? MS. CACCHIONE: re-evaluation. Are you saying it's only four It was four acres prior to zoning OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 195 I think we did take some parcels to C-6 in zoning re-evaluation. I'm not sure of the specific number. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: This district, then, would apply to those properties along US 41 that were rezoned C-6 during zoning re-evaluation? MS. CACCHIONE: Yes. And it will be C-l/T, which will be -- basically, it's an office type district -- for offices. COS~ISSIONER VOLPE: You talked about those uses being institutional, though, as well as office. We talked about those being appropriate locations for child care centers, you know, outside of activity centers. MS. CACCHIONE: There is a distinction between the C-1/T district and the Community Facility District. The C-1/T districts are those properties that meet the test for commercial infill, so they have to have commercial on both sides of them. And through the Comp Plan review, those properties that met the test in the Comp Plan for C-6 was rezoned to C-6. They were other properties that the Board directed us to pull out of zoning re-evaluation and look at as a OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 196 new district, which is the Community Facility District, and that district has more of the non-residential uses, the more institutional uses that are like the adult congregate living facility, churces, child care, those types of uses. And that district is the Community Facilities District. So there are really two districts that we used during zoning re-evaluation. One was for those that met the test for commercial, the others were those that didn't meet the test for commercial and the Board asked to us look at developing a new district for those uses, and that's the Community Facilities District. ! If there are no other questions, I can continue on. COmmISSIONER HASSE: Just one thing. RFS-6. That means six families? MS. CACCHIONE: Six residential units per acre. And those would only -- COS~ISSIONER HASSE: Individual single families? MS. CACHIONE: That is correct. COmmISSIONER HASSE: Per acre? MS. CACCHIONE: Pardon? COMMISSIONER HASSE: Per acre? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 3396~ 197 MS. CACCHIONE: Per acre; yes, sir. COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's pretty dense, isn't it? For the Estates, I'm speaking about. MS. CACCHIOME:. The Estates would still be zoned the Estates, which would be one unit for two and a quarter acres, and then all the lots that are less than that that are going to be building on. COb~IISSIONER HASSE: That's one and a quarter. Okay. MS. CACCHIONE: So we're not proposing any change to Good. Ms. Cacchione, when we grant a the Estates Zoned Areas. COS~ISSIONER HASSE: COb~ISSIONER VOLPE: density bonus to a particular area as a part of either the conversion from commercial to RMF-6 or twelve or whatever it would be, and the same would be true with affordable housing. What development standards are we going to be using for those districts when they get the bonus density? MS. CACCHIONE: If the district they currently have does not permit them to go to that density level, then they have to be rezoned. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 198 So, as an example, if you're in a RSF-4 District, single-family, four units per acre, you want to take advantage of the density bonus that would allow you up to twelve units per acre, you have to rezone that property from RSF-4 to RMF-12. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Do we have such a district? MS. CACCHIONE: RSF-4? COMMISISONER VOLPE: No. Twelve. MS. CACCHIONE: Yes, we do. We have RMF-6, Twelve and Sixteen. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And we're going to retain those? MS. CACCHIONE: Yes; that's correct. MR. MERRILL: One thing we want to clarify. My understanding from working on the -- one of the bonus density ordinances that we're talking about, and also with regard to the plan, is that the Board wanted to retain the control. It is not something that is mandatory where you have to give the bonus density. It's still within your discretion. So we wanted to categorize that as a legislative function. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 199 Therefore, we had to bring it into the rezoning process; and by setting up these different districts or retaining the different districts, it requires you to get a rezoning to go to the next district; the next higher district or the next lower district, whatever the case may be. In addition, with regard to RMF-6 only, that district is only retained for existing zoned RMF-6 property so that we do not create any non-conforming uses. New rezonings will not be allowed to go to R~F-6. They can only either go to RF -- because there is a RFS-6. So there's going to be RSF-1 through Six, and then will be a RMF-12 and Sixteen. But you will not be allowing any new rezonings to RMF-6, and that's in accordance with your Comp Plan and what's envisioned under that. MS. CACCHIONE: To go on. I'll just basically go over how Article One and Article Two are set up. Article One includes the general provisions that apply to the whole zoning code. This includes the purpose and intent, section on interpretations and vested rights, how we're going handle non-conformities and enforcement, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 200 and also how we handle amendments to the code. And that's your general provision section that applies for the whole code. Section Two basically has all your zoning districts: Single family, multi-family, commercial, industrial and PUD. Then the other provisions go on to cover corridor management, off-street parking. Section 2.4 is Landscaping and Buffering. Section 2.5 is Signs. 2.6 is your Supplemental District Regulations; and 2.7 is Zoning Administration, how you handle amendments, rezoning, PUP procedures and conditional uses and variances. The next item that you have in your packet that I handed out to you this morning is a large packet entitled Areas of Further Discussion. That's the last one. The next thing you have is a rather thick stack of sides sheets, and that is in the packet that I handed out to you this morning. This includes the areas that -- the pink and yellow side sheets. There were a lot of areas there that we needed to OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 201 further discuss, and we have come to agreement on many of those areas on those sides sheets. The package of side sheets handed out to you this morning represents those areas that we have come to agreement on the pink and yellow sheets. And at this point in time, you have -- COmmISSIONER SAUNDERS: Does that mean that we will no longer need the pink and yellow sheets? MS. CACCHIONE: In regards to Section Two, that's true. Basically the packet, the second thing in your item -- in the items that I handed out this morning represent the new language that will replace that language on the pink and yellow sheets. COS~ISSIONER HASSE: It's only Section Two? MS. CACCHIONE: They're related to Section Two, that's correct. There are other items. There is an area -- there is a two-page listing of items that have been designated by staff and the committee for further discussion. These things cover definitions, such as the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 202 definition of useable open space, the definition of maximum lot coverage, floor areas ratios. All of those things we have not come to a conclusion on between staff and the committee, and we still want to work further on those things. The RT District in particular has a number of concerns in regard to changes that we propose to that district, and we want to re-look at some of those changes. Also, the new district -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The RT District being? MS. CACHIONE: The Residential Tourist District. We have proposed some changes in regard to height, density, setback, and we're finding that it will make quite a few structures non-conforming. We want to re-look at some of those things that we have proposed for that district, especially in regard to hotel use. COmmISSIONER VOLPE: On the overlay districts that we've discussed are our corridor -- help me. What's the word? MS. CACCHIONE: Management. COS~ISSIONER VOLPE: Management. Where is that OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 here? 203 Is that reserved or is that -- MS. CACCHIONE: The existing corridor management is on two, Section 2.2.21. And that's the current corridor management overlay we have for Goodlette-Frank Road and Golden Cate Parkway. And that's all we have in place today. MR. MERRILL: Page 2-69. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: When you mentioned about the height restrictions in some of the RT Districts, I was thinking about, you know, how that may impact on the corridor management. Because I assume there are some hotels that would be planned along those corridors. I'm thinking of Airport Road. MS. CACCHIONE: There is currently no RT zoning that exists along.that corridor that would be affected by that change. Where most of the RT zoning occurs is on Marco Island, along the beach, and then the Vanderbilt Beach area is where the RT District occurs. What we have proposed here is lowering the heights and increasing the setbacks, and there may be some concerns with doing that. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 204 We need to re-look at that, and we want to further work on that particular district before we come back to you with a recommendation. COmmISSIONER VOLPE: Where you've got an improved PUD, these standards wouldn't apply. Is that correct? MS. CACCHIONE: That's correct. The standards in the PUD document would apply. CO5IMISSIO~;ER VOLPE: Would apply. So what -- just so that we have the scenario in the area that you want to bring back. We won't belabor that. What -- are there some particular areas where you're talking about RT on what -- let's say Vanderbilt. What's on Vanderbilt that would be at issue? MS. CACCHIONE: The vacant properties that are zoned RT. If we changed the setback and height requirements and the density requirements, we will be looking at lower intensities of developments of those RT parcels. COS~ISSIONER VOLPE: Along the beach. ~IS. CACCHIONE: Along the beach. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Of which there must be two, three? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 205 MS. CACHIONE: There aren't very many. That's true. And if we do change those standards, what we're effectinc is we're making a lot of properties non-conforming, so we need look at the balance of that. CO~,IMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. 5~S. CACCHIONE: To start with the side sheets that are for discussion. We have the side sheets for further discussion. There are a number of items on here. Another item on here is there's been a request to re-look at some of the setbacks in the single-family districts, some of the larger lot single-family districts; and we're looking at that in conjunction with that definition of maximum lot coverage. And those two are enter-related, so we put that on here for further discussion. We're also looking at when we combined the mobile home districts, we went with the larger lot size, and we're lookin~ at that. as well. because we will be creating some non-conformities for those existing mobile home rental parks that had a smaller lot size. So this two-page list -- another key item in this OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 206 list is the definition of useable open space. Right now, we have a very broad definition of useable open space. We also require a large percentage of the land areas being used for open space. What we would like to do is more clearly define what we mean by "useable open space" and perhaps maybe look at the percentage, as well. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Does that include lakes, useable open space? MS. CACCHIONE: Right now, it includes everything. Includes parking islands in shopping centers. So the definition today of useable open space is very broad. ~e also have a very larvae Dercenta~e o~ what we require for useable open space. Thirty percent on commercial areas and sixty percent on residential areas. What we might look at, and we're going discuss this further with the committee as well, as well as staff, is coming up with a more definitive definition of what we're going to count as useable open space and perhaps adjust the percentage. We ~eel ~ha~'~ a key element and very ~m~o:tant in the plan. :'"'" OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS · .. Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 ~07 COMMISSIONER HASSE: May we get back to mobile homes for a second. You say rental home, mobile homes. Supposing the people in the park own the land as a corporation, entirely, and they just lease the land or they just pay for maintenance of the land. That's not what you're indicating in any way, shape or form. MS. CACCHIONE: Basically when we combined -- we have two mobile home districts today, subdivision and rental park, and they are differentiated. The differences, the main difference between the two is ownership. And that's not an appropriate basis to make a zoning distinction, so what we're going to do is go to one mobile home district with one set of lot size, and you can structure it either as a rental park or as a subdivision. You'll have the flexibility to do either one, but there will be just one district with one lot size. And we did go with the larger lot size of six thousand square feet. COMMISSIONER HASSE: And that's all over the county. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 208 MS. CACCHIONE: That's correct. COmmISSIONER HASSE: No separate districts. MS. CACCHIONE: That's -- no. That is an area that we have agreed to discuss a little bit further because we will be creating non-conformity in those existing mobile home unit parks. then? COS~ISSIONER HASSE: MS. CACCHIONE: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: But you will create that, If we go to the larger size. Barbara, on these that need further discussion are you wanting further discussion from the Board or are you wanting further discussion between the community and the staff and the consultant? MS. CACCHIONE: What we would like to do is further discuss it with the committee and the consultant. I'm trying to give you an idea of what some of these topics are, and hopefully we will be working on that over the next two weeks and come back to you with specific recommendations for staff -- from staff. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Okay. MS. CACCHIONE: The one item that we have disagreed on is -- has to do with the accessory uses in the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 209 Agricultural District, and it's retail sales of farm products grown on the property. This is the language that the staff is suggesting to you. The way the ordinance currently reads and the committee's suggestion is: Retail sales of farm products grown primarily on the farm. Staff's -- COS~ISSiONER HASSE: What does that mean? MR. MERRILL: This is on page 2-6, by the way. COMMISSIONER HASSE: It's in the green sheets? ~4S. CACCHIONE: have before you. COM~ISSIONER HASSE: It's also on a side sheet that you You'll have to tell me which side sheet. COmmISSIONER VOLPE: I have eighty-six side sheets. The one that you have in your hand. CO~ISSIONER HASSE: This one right here. But that doesn't tell me anything, does it? MS. CACCHIONE: The distinction is in the word "primarily." By adding the word "primarily," you're not requiring that the products grown on the farm be sold on the farm. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 210 For instance, if you grew tomatoes, you would be able to sell tomatoes. %~nen you give the word primarily in there, it gives the ability of bringing in products from other farms to that site zone. COmmISSIONER HASSE: Well, that's a a regular commercial use, then? MS. CACCHIONE: The concerns are that it would be a commercial use in the property. The other concerns are for proper access, ingress and egress, into the site. The more trucking and other uses you have coming in from off-site to in-site, the more concerns that there are. Parking is also a concern when you start dealing with something that goes into a commercial operation. COM~IISSIONER HASSE: Well, that's what -- the way we have now is you have to grow the product on the site. MS. CACCHIONE: The way the wording is today is, the word primarily is in there. It's retail sales of farm product grown primarily on the farm. Staff is suggesting that we take the word primarily o~t. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 211 COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: green sheet right now on 2.6. letter -- cover right here. MS. CACCHIONE: Yes. And leave it as it is in the And it's on this cover And basically if you grow it on the farm, you can sell it on the farm. CO~ISSIONER HASSE: Otherwise, you can't. MS. CACCHIONE: That's correct. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: And you have major disagreement with that? MS. CACCHIONE: The committee would like to leave it as it is in the ordinance -- CO~,~ISSIONER SHANAHAN: Leave primarily in there? MS. CACCHIONE: -- in the ordinance today. That's correct. COM~ISSIONER SHANAHAN: That's major disagreement. COMMISSIONER HASSE: That means that you could have them all over the place. MS. CACCHIOME: On agriculturally zoned properties. COMMISSIONER HASSE: But that could be all over, the argiculture zoned property. MS. CACCHIOME: There is a lot of agricultural zoning in the area. That's true. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 212 COmmISSIONER HASSE: Well, at the present time we don't have it that way. You have to grow it on the land that you put your stands on, if that's what you wish to call it. MS. CACCHIONE: Right now, the language has the word primarily in it. So you will find that some of the stands do sell more than they grow on the property. COmmISSIONER VOLPE: Better give it some thought. MS. CACCHIONE: products.. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Like pecans and kiwi and other Imported products. COMMISSIONER SAU~DERS: Right. MS. CACCHIONE: But with the word primarily in there, it's difficult in terms of enforcement, you know, to enforce that. COmmISSIONER HASSE: Now you want to take it out? MS. CACCHIONE: Right. COmmISSIONER HASSE: That's good. MS. CACCHIONE: can sell tomatoes. cucumbers. COS~ISSIONER SHANAHAN: So that if they grow tomatoes, they If they grow cucumbers, they can sell That statement is obviously OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 213 pretty direct and pretty all-encompassing. It's pretty understandable. Primarily certainly leaves a lot of flexibility. COMMISSIONER HASSE: And we don't want the flexibility. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: But let's look at it from the other standpoint. You're talking about traffic. Wouldn't it be better to have the traffic in one spot than it would be to have that little homemaker driving from this farm to pick up her tomatoes and that farm to pick up her cucumbers and that farm to pick up her bell peppers, and then she goes down the street to the other farm to pick up her watermelon? I mean, you know. I understand what we're talking about, but what we're saying here is that we're wanting to get completely out of the retail business of farm products on the side of the road, and so that means that everybody has got to go to the grocery store and we've got to go to buy it at the grocery store. And therefore we're going to end of buying products that's going to be grown in Guatemala and Chile and all of OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 214 those other places because the majority of the products that we're buying on the side of the road are home-grown. So, you know, we're putting the little guy out of business and we're now dealing with the retail, which we're going to end up paying more for because when you buy tomatoes from the grocery store, you've got that middle man that you're paying and when you're buying it from the farmer, well, he's Just gone out and picked it or either you can pick it yourself and bring it in there. So, I mean I think we've got some -- I mean, what is it that we want here? I think that's what the Board has got to decide. What is it that we want? Do we want to have have the constituents of Collier County buying safe food or do we want our constituents to have to go to the grocery store and not know if it's safe food that we're eating or know that they're eating safe food and we're paying a higher price for. COS~ISSIONER HASSE: We don't know if that farm stand, if that's what you want to call it, his neighborhood or anything else. Guatemale or as you call it. He may be importing from OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 215 We don't know that. We don't have control over it. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: No, sir. But the same control will be over him as in the grocery store, because in the State of Florida, we have to be able to have a labelin§ and country of origin if they're not grown in the United States. So they will be under the same thing, and I don't think that any of the Florida farmers are going to go and bring tomatoes and honeydews and stuff like that in from a foreign country when they can buy it cheaper right here in the United States. COM~ISSIONER VOLPE: Aren't these same farmers selling wholesale to the Winn-Dixie, Publix? CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Of course. Who charge more. No. The farmers are not selling wholesale. For -- to someone who takes what he is buying from the store, but they're paying that, the same amount. COb~ISSIONER VOLPE: would be limiting the market for in our local market if they were restricted. But you were suggesting that we OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 216 CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: consumers. consumers. COMb~ISSIONER VOLPE: No. I'm talking about the We're going to be limiting the market to the Okay. So it's not -- the farmer is going sell his tomatoes, regardless. What we're doing is we're limiting the market to the consumer, to John Q. Citizen out there, who wants to have some home-grown tomatoes, and who -- he knows that he can go down to this farm, this roadside stand that is on his land. And I think it needs to be on agricultural lands, and I think it needs to be primarily the stuff that is there. But we're limiting that because many of the vegetables that are in Publix or Winn-Dixie are not from this area. They have bought them from a wholesale place or the big rig refrigerator has brought them in. Or if Winn-Dixie is out of Orlando, and they've bought the cheapest tomatoes wherever they can buy them, and not necessarily grown here in Collier County or even in Southwest Florida. They could be from Homestead, from the east coast, from Mexico or even from California. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 217 COMMISSIONER HASSE: Then they'd have to relabel them if they were from Mexico. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: CO~4ISSIONER HASSE: Yes, sir. But nevertheless, there's nothing to prevent someone from buying home-grown products from a stand. There is nothing to prevent that. The only thing is you don't want to make a big commercial operation from any of these stands that are not adequately handled with egress and parking. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: And I'm not arguing that point. I think that all of that needs to be in there, but I think for us to say that we can't have -- an agricultural zoned property cannot have a roadside stand and not have something besides what they're -- what's being grown there on the property is not being fair to the consumer. But whether it's fair to the consumer or not, it's unfair to the consumers to have to pull in into a roadside farm that is only growing tomatoes and selling tomatoes and not having the safety issue addressed. So regardless of what, whether it's a number of vegetables or produce that they're selling or just one, they should still have the same safety issue in the egress OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 218 and everything should be exactly the same. So I mean I have no problems with the safety aspect of being able to bring your automobile in there and park and everything else. I just think that we shouldn't limit the roadside stands to just one product of whatever it is that's grown on the land. COM~ISSIONER HASSE: Well, the farmer grows these other products. You're not limiting him. MS. CACCHIONE: One item that we did discuss with Planning Commission is in fact limiting it to agricultural products only and also going through a site development plan review procedure which would entail looking at things like parking. We don't want to create impervious surface parking but create enough parking for the amount of space that they propose and also safe egress and ingress into the property. So that was something that was discussed with Planning Commission. COM~ISSIONER HASSE: What about cleanliness? Have you directed yourself to that, water available at the rest OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 219 room facilities and things? MS. CACCHIOME: I don't believe that there would be any rest room facilities, because you're looking at a semi-permanent structure. CO~.~IISSIONER SHANAHAN: Sanitary conditions don't exist. MS. CACCHIONE: But if there's rest rooms on the site, then that will be licensed through the Health Department. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Barbara, I didn't understand what you said about the Planning Commission. They discussed the egress, et cetera, and safety factors and -- but no final decisions were made? MS. CACCHIOME: That's from the public, as well. One suggestion that was made ~y me at that meeting was that we look at maybe limiting it to agricultural products and going through the site development plan review procedure. There were also comments from the public who felt that the site development plan procedure was something that was unnecessary to go through for farm stand. COS~ISSIONER SHANAHAN: Yeah. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 220 MS. CACCHIONE: So. I don't believe that the Planning Commission reached any conclusion on that, but we agreed that we would provide them some additional language to look at, limiting it to agricultural products and requiring them to go through site plan procedure. COMMISSIOMER SHANAHAN: ~S. CACCHIONE: Yes. CONIMISSIONER VOLPE: roadside stand language. So you intend to do that. Is this -- my vision of a I think of the Long's and the Stallings'. major thoroughfares. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: COS~ISSIONER VOLPE: They're big operations and right on some That's where the consumers are. I understand that, but that's also where there is the traffic congestion issue. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: And I'm not arguing that point. HS. CACCHIONE: I think they are -- wherever the property is zoned agricultural, this is a permitted use. So whether in the urban or the -- in the rural area, the same would apply. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Barbara, have we had any particular problems in terms of the roadside stands? MS. CACCHIONE: In terms of enforcement, it's hard OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 221 to enforce when you have the word primarily. It's hard to define what you're meaning when you say primarily. Home-grown cucumbers. Is that home-grown on the road. For instance, the one on Pine Ridge Road, the access into that site has been a problem. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And if we have some regulations to deal with traffic and access, do you have any problem with just using the language that they are restricted to agricultural products and not get into the restriction that it be grown on the property? What are you really trying to accomplish by that? MS. CACCHIONE: I think the concerns are that it doesn't turn into a commercial operation where you start trucking in a variety of items. I think limiting it to agricultural products would make some sense. And, also, the problems that we have in terms of enough parking and enough ingress and egress. COMMISSIONERS SAUNDERS: Have we had problems with some of these roadside stands trucking in a large quantity of non-agricultural products and setting up a commercial operation? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 222 MS. CACCHIONE: For the most part, our existing stands are selling only agricultural products, but it's COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: actually are a great benefit. I think the roadside stands I know I use them myself, and I think they are very attractive, things that people look forward to using as an alternative to a grocery store, and I don't want us to restrict this to the point where they are no longer viable. So I go along with Commissioner Goodnight. I think regulating and that makes sense, but let's let them sell agricultural-related products. I don't think you need to go through a formal site development plan process. There can be some other process perhaps that is specifically for these types of operations. That's a little bit simpler. C05~ISSIONER HASSE: Would there be no limitation in there as to where and how many there could be? C05~ISSIONER SAUNDERS: The limitation is where. It's agricultural locations. If we had the availability to review these for safety and traffic and access, then that would be another limiting factor. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 223 In terms of the number, that's going to be a market driven factor. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Not necessarily. If you have twenty-five miles of agricultural land which is available and you had fifty of these things on there. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Probably thirty-nine or forty of them would go out of business very quickly. C05~ISSIONER HASSE: I don't know that that's a fact, either. C05~ISSIONER VOLPE: Could I suggest that we have a zoning map at our next meeting. I don't know how we could do that, but -- talking about the agricultural -- to put it in perspective for me. C05~ISSIONER SAUNDERS: visualize. Anything that you could MS. CACCHIONE: We have probably a hundred zoning maps. That's where it's difficult. But -- we do have quite a bit of agricultural area, but they're not all in farming. COS~ISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay. MS. CACCHIONE: Just the different zonings. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 224 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You don't have one map that would show the county with zoning classification? MS. CACCHIONE: No. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: And not only that, but if they're not on a well-traveled road, there is no reason to place one there. COS~ISSIONER VOLPE: But not just this issue. The child care. COM/~ISSIONER SAUNDERS: We have a disaHreement, obviously. Maybe the Advisory Committee can give us the -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- zone. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Thank you, Barbara. ~. ANDERSON: Bruce Anderson. I really have nothing to add. Good morning, Commissioners. You all have discussed on ever -- have touched on everything that the committee discussed. Believe me, we have belabored this quite extensively, and we have all talked about issues that came up before the committee in our reaching our conclusion to OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 225 leave it alone. It's not broke. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: there -- MR. ANDERSON: Yes. Don't fix it. Leave the primarily in COb~ISSIONER SHANAHAN: -- and go away. MR. ANDERSON: We were unaware of any pressing threat to the public health, safety and welfare that necessitated such a change. COMMISSIONER HASSE: You didn't address yourself to the health situation or the sanitary facilities, things like that. MR. ANDERSON: Well, I wash my fruit and vegetables before I eat it. CO~ISSIONER HASSE: That may be so, but -- MR. ANDERSON: Normally -- COb~ISSIONER HASSE: You trust that someone washes their hands after they go to the bathroom and things like Or where they go to the bathroom. This could be a very Well, it may be interesting, that. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: interesting discussion here. COMMISSIONER HASSE: OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 226 but it's also a fact to discuss. MR. ANDERSON: Well, you raise a good question. We didn't look at that. We figured that's more in the ambit of the Public Health Department~ frankly. CO~ISSIONER HASSE: Okay. MR. BRUTT: For the record, Frank Brutt, Community Development Services Administrator. One thing that is a consideration -- I don't know if we have had it here yet. In some other counties, the amount of traffic that such a facility -- on Airport Road, as an example -- has a lot of traffic. What we need to do is bring to you conditions for the ingress and the egress. And I will tell you that in other counties that have facilities like this, the amount of damages that can be done to tke road surface and breaking away of the right-of-way has been a consideration; and major, large operations -- and that one, I consider a large operation -- what we can do is proDose or suggest to you that the individual post a bond so that any damages done to the pavement by cars pulling off and coming back has to be OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 227 replaced at the end of growing sale season. That's a consideration. It's done in other counties. But I think what you're asking for us to do is to come back to you with suggestions, a group of suggestions, rules, regulations, suggestions, relative to the health, safety, ingress/egress carrier, decelleration, et cetera, and we will do that in our next review with you. CO~ISSIONER HASSE: Also look at it as a possibility of an impervious drive-through -- MR. BRUTT: Yes. COMMISSIONER HASSE: -- realizing that the parking could be gravel or lime rock. MR. BRUTT: Right. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: there. Mr. Brutt, as long as you're Just I think the suggestions about the -- that you just talked about, the concerns about egress and ingress. Do we have any other types of regulations in terms of structures that can be permitted? I mean I -- again, I have a vision of a little roadside stand as opposed to a chickee hut with a large OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 228 semi behind it with, you know, its generator for cooling products, so on and so forth. MR. BRUTT: Right. COmmISSIONER VOLPE: Do we have any kind of standards that -- MR. BRUTT: Definitely the minute you get into what is defined as a structure gets into the building code. We had a little difficulty in another location that has closed up because what the person was bringing in was, like you say, a tractor trailer and bolting signs to it. So naturally, once you get into the definition of structure, you get into a review by the staff. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So this discussion is centered around what can be sold there. MR. BRUTT: Right. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But it seems to me that we're touching on some other issues which I think are, you know, all a part of that same issue and maybe as important, if not more important. MR. BRUTT: Definitely. COS~ISSI~N VOLPE: I'd be interested in what can be seen. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 229 MR. BRUTT: And we'll look at that. The difficulty you get into is the person that is selling tomatoes and then all of a sudden you see Superbrands or Publix types of tomatoes, being canned. And the question is: Where do you draw the line. Having gone through this on retail sales/wholesale sales discussions from another lumber operation, it's very difficult for the code enforcement people to come in and say: Oh, the majority of what you're selling is from the Immokalee area, eastern Collier County; go to the next place and say: Hey, guy; obviously twenty percent is here and eighty percent is out of the area and it doesn't meet the criteria. So enforcement becomes a difficulty. But we'll come back with guidelines for you. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Well, maybe what you could do with that would be to add fresh fruits and vegetables. MR. BRUTT: That is the criteria that is used. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Then that would eliminate all of the other things that there are. However, they do need some type of a cooling unit because if they've got strawberries or things that are -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 230 MR. BRUTT: Perishable. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Yeah. That they need to have the cooling unit. But we could even put a size to that and we could even put a square footage as to how much building that they were allowed or how much structure that they were allowed to have and even put some criteria to how it should be built. For example, you know, it couldn't be enclosed and different -- you know, different things like that to where that it would strictly continue to be an agricultural roadside stand. MR. BURTT: Right. We can research that, and we'll bring it back to you. COS~ISSIONER VOLPE: The other issue maybe then becomes -- as long as we have belabored this as long as we have -- as to whether it should be owner-occupied. You know, whether it's my farm, I sell my product; or is it my farm and I hire someone to come in and run a retail operation. MR. BRUTT: I immediately think of the one on Davis Road where the person is coming from Miami and leasing OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 231 space. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Right. And it takes on more of a -- something different too. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: And I guess I have a problem with that, too. Because, you know, and I think that should certainly be a criteria. If it's -- you know. If it's Goodnight Farms, then Goodnight ought to be the one that is operatino the thing. He may hire someone to run it for him, but everything is in his name and all. And so, you know. MR. DORRILL: The only other comment I think staff would make, based on their presentations to me, is that at some point you may have to step up to further clarification of what agricultural products are because if not, then you'll find it's like a situation that exists on the east coast where you'll have Colorado Prime Company selling frozen beef at a farmer's market or at roadside markets and, quote, fresh shrimp and/or seafood through the same installations. And as each month or year goes on, you know -- first, it was on the farm and then pineapples and kiwi OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 232 fruits, and now we've got coolers with milk and eggs and orange juice in them. And our desire is that these not turn into convenient stores, as opposed to what they were originally intended to be. COMMISSIONER HASSE: CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: That's exactly what it's like. I think by adding fresh fruit and vegetables we could do that. However, kiwi fruit, pineapple, star fruit and all is grown in Homestead. So I have no problems with adding that to a fresh fruit and vegetable stand here in Collier County, but I think it should be limited to fresh fruit and vegatables. MR. BRUTT: Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: And then that will take care of the beef industry and anyone else. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, fresh fruit is shipped from God knows where. It doesn't have to be from a mile away. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: John, did you have a question? MR. KESSLER: Good morning, Commissioners. John Kessler. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 233 I just got up a little late. I'm sorry about that. I apologize. A couple questions that I need to ask in relationship to the discussion I've heard here the last few minutes. Nell made a comment about shipping over stuff from Miami, Florida, and shrimp and all. You can go any given day down at 951 and 41 and you can see the trucks there from Miami selling shrimp. Not only there on the corner; they come down to the various mobile park homes. These people sneak into our county here and they have no concern except to make a buck. I'm talking about the people from Dade County. Now, as far as up the line, right across the street from this courthouse -- I'm sure many of you have seen it -- they sell watermelons across here in that gas station and they sell every fruit imaginable from time to time. I don't condemn those people for that. These are Hispanic people which, when you see them, it's almost like they get out to pick some and whoever they work for, they say: Do the best you can with them; they're yours. They make a little extra money. And, you know, you OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 234 have to be a little bit considerate from time to time. You may have to fudge a little on certain people. Now, we're talking about ingress and egress coming out of some of these on Airport Road. There's a number of farms down there, and Max Hasse discussed about the safety and health. Now, when you get off 41 or Airport Road and you make a right turn to go into some of these farms, they're nothing but dirt roads and they're not maintained because they have tractors and everything else going in there. When we get a flood of rain like we've had here, you get hung up if you go in there. Now, they have jiffy-johns there for the employees down there, as far as sanitation facilities are concerned. I'm sure that they're well kept. And out on Immokalee Road, Ann, you go by there; Commissioner Goodnight, you go by there every day. And when you get off of Immokalee Road and turn into, it used to be Westcoast Farms or it's another company has got it now. You went down in there and you picked your tomatoes and all, but you went in there at your own risk because the roads weren't that good. I've been pulled out of OFFICIAL COU~T REPORTERS Collier County Courthouoe, Naples, Florida 33962 235 there a dozen times over the years. And they moved out to Immokalee there. I haven't been out there yet. I knew all them people real well. Now, talking about various fruits and stuff, and Commissioner Hasse said, you know, you wash your hands and all, and I forget the comment of our attorney, Bruce. Not our attorney. Former county attorney. You mentioned star fruit, et cetera, et cetera, that some of these places are selling. There are a lot of these farms out there -- we have star fruit out at our place. We have passion fruit. We don't sell this, now mind you, but we grow it and we give it away to people that want it. At no charge. We raise pineapples from time to time. kind of fruit, we raise it. Now, we don't spray out there where we're at. No kinds of spray on it. But when you go to tomatoes, et cetera, you have to spray it. And if anybody buys it either from a farm or a stand and doesn't wash that fruit or vegetables off, they're sick. They don't know what they're doing. Now, you can go up, like I said, out of Collier You name any OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 236 County, going up to Lee County, you see all kinds of trucks on the right-hand side going north, selling everything under the sun as you get up to Bonita Beach Road. I don't think nobody bothers. They sell automobiles. They park automobiles in Everybody and his brother is selling something up there. there. I'm not opposed to what some of you people are saying, but I think it behooves this commission and all to give some consideration to some of the people if the farmers, the growers, say: Look, you can have this fruit now, whatever it is, whether it's avocados or peaches. They don't have peaches down here. Excuse me for that. But you've got your pickup truck and you have a chance to sell it somewhere, you know. We ought to let these people go out and make a dollar or two or a dime, whatever it is. You have to be a little bit compassionate. And sometimes we're not compassionate enough up here, and sometimes we're too compassionate for various special interest groups. I didn't catch your whole conversation you had OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 237 today. I apologize for that. But when you start saying ingress or egress, you know, you're going to have to make these farmers -- if they let the general public in, they're going to have to have a paved road, et cetera, et cetera. Most farmers can't afford all that. You're well aware of that, I'm sure. Thank you very much for your time. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Is there any further discussion? Barbara, the next item. MS. CACCHIONE: The next item is in regard to correspondence that has been received. We received two letters from the firm of Haben, Culpepper, Dunbar and French, Mr. Bob Apgar, representing the Citizen's Political Committee. The first letter is dated August the 5th, and that should be towards the bottom of that package that I first handed out. It's a one-page letter. And the second letter I handed out, as well. The first letter raises concerns about the Task Force Committee and that approach to the Unified Code. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 238 It also raises concerns about the improper use of planned unit developments, weakening of environmental regulations, reduction of building setbacks in all districts, and raises those concerns as things occurring in this code. The second letter, received this morning, states that they support staff's position on final subdivision plat approvals. Where you don't receive your plat -- you don't receive a building permit until your final plat is approved. Supporting that position of staff's. The second area in the second later is in regard to exemptions, and this is an area that we have for further discussion between committee and staff. This is where, in Section One, if you already have a building permit, the provisions of this code -- if you already have a building permit, it's a valid permit and you're continuing in good faith, then the provisions of this code would not apply to your property. Basically the suggestion has been made at the committee level to expaid that to site development plans, subdivision master plan~, and perhaps even PUD master plans. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 'i:?: '.. %.. i?;:i,..... 239 The Citizen's Committee is supporting what we currently have in our zoning ordinance today and what the staff's suggestion is, which is that we leave it at building permits. But, of course, that's an area that we're going discuss further with the committee as well. C05~ISSIONER HASSE: Just a moment. The building permit. Does that mean once the building permit is issued, it stays there for how long? MS. CACCHIONE: Basically, if somebody came in and got a building permit issued and they were proceeding to build their building and this new code was adopted, we would let them go forward with the building permit that they had issued, as long as that building permit was valid and didn't lapse or anything like that. COMI4ISSIONER HASSE: fifteen years? MS. CACCHIONE: Even if it lasts five, ten, The building permit will only be as good as you -- if you don't act on it, it's only good for six months, and one -- then there's renewal period. If you are constructing your building, it's the time that it takes for you to construct your particular building, which OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, I~aples, Florida 33962 240 might be six months or a year. So they do not last forever. The other item that they have in the letter is in regard to planned unit developments. The feeling is that twenty acres -- ten acres as a PUD is too small; that the minimum size should be increased to ten acres for a PUD. C05~ISSIONER $HANAHAN: Twenty acres. MS. CACCHIONE: Twenty acres. COM~:ISSIONER VOLPE: What would that do to Golden Gate under our master plan? five acres. COMMISSIONER HASSE: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The PUD's there are two point No, not a PUD. Along -- the commercial property along Golden Gate Parkway. I thought we decided -- perhaps I'm mistaken. My recollection was that they were two and a half acres and they would be developed out, I thought, as kind Collier of like a PUD. COMMISSIONER HASSE: COMlViISSIONER VOLPE: COmmISSIONER HASSE: I didn't think so. No? [~aybe not. Maybe I'm wrong. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 241 CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: area along there. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Master Plan. CHAIRb~N GOODNIGHT: You're talking about commercial Yes. Within the Golden Gate I thought what we said was that we were going to have some architectural regulation and all and that they could combine in there. MS. CACCHIONE: You're right. It is a requirement. It is a PUD along -- the commercial district along Golden Gate Parkway. C05~ISSIOMER VOLPE: Okay. MS. CACCHIONE: We have required it to be a PUD. COS~lISSIONER HASSE: Yeah, but it's not two and a half acres. MS. CACCHIONE: The minimum is two and a half acres. COMMISSIONER HASSE: It is? MS. CACCHIONE: Because all of those lots are plated into much smaller parcels. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Oh, yeah. I see. The combination. MS. CACCHIONE: If they're going to have to aggregate, they'll need at least two and a half. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 CD 242 C05~ISSIONER HASSE: Okay. That's true. CO55{ISSIONER VOLPE: So two questions, tken. One is: Does this change that requirement in the Golden Gate Master Plan? 5]S. CACCHIONE: It could. What the suggestion is in this letter, as I read it, is that there may be another approach that they can look at for something with less than twenty acres. What we currently have, in terms of PUD's, is a five-acre minimum requirement. In activity centers, they're allowed to go below five acres. Staff's suggestion and the committee's was to go with a ten-acre minimum for a PUD and allow for a two-acre infill PUD that meets certain definitions for infill. The CPC suggestion is that we go with a twenty-acre minimum and perhaps look at having some other level of PUD for those smaller properties. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: But they haven't defined what that smaller level might be. The twenty acres they have defined specifically, but not the smaller parcel, the infill parcel? MS. CACCHIONE: Right. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 243 They haven't defined that, and that's something we have asked them to provide us with information on that we could look at. And, you know, we will continue to discuss that, as well. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What is the objection to having a PUD on a site that's smaller than twenty acres? MS. CACCHIONE: I think the basic premise behind the planned unit development is the mixture of uses; that basically you need a larger parcel in order to have a mixed-use project. And, in fact, most of the PUD's we have are rather large in size in the county. You don't have too many smaller ones. On the other side, there has been the suggestion that perhaps on some of these smaller parcels we may need to change some developments standards or create more buffering and landscaping in that, the PUD approach, or limit uses in the PUD approach may be the way to go on some of these smaller parcels. So I think that looking at another system for those smaller parcels might be something that we can look at and OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 244 come back to you with. COS~ISSIONER HASSE: We wouldn't want to hamstring anybody in regard to a piece of property that several owners have and they wish to combine together, have a PUD made out of it, and it's not ten or twenty acres. You don't want to stop the possibility of the development of that facility. And I can't see that. Now, I relate particularly to the Golden Gate Parkway. We have a piece of land there -- I'm not sure, quite sure what the total acreage of it is -- and it's all separate owners. And it would be a pity if they couldn't develop that piece according to the Golden Gate Master Plan which Golden Gate was very adamant about the use of that land. MS. CACCHIONE: Yes. I think -- that's going to be something that we have to look at. I think that the concern that they raise is that on the smaller properties, these infill properties, if we use the PUD mechanism, that it not be used as a fast way to relax standards and to have something less than the zoning district that exists around them. And I think that was the concern, that the PUD would OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 Collier County 245 not be used in that manner. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think experience has been -- it has been to the contrary. We have kind of imposed additional development standards, using the PUD. At least that's my impression. MS. CACCHIONE: One of the problems we have had is in conditioning uses. Basically in existing zoning categories, we have had a difficult time of saying in a straight C-4 zoning district that you can only have four or five of those uses. You need the PUD as a tool to accomplish that. And that, their suggestion that they raise, may be something that we can look at that might be workable. I think that goes over basically their concerns in the letters that I have so far. If there aren't any further questions, what I'll do is turn it over to Joe Delate who will give you an overview of the changes in landscaping and buffering to our existing code. CO~MISSIONER VOLPE: May I ask one other question, Ms. Cacchione. On the issue -- one of the issues that we had OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 246 discussed was with the shopping centers and outparcels. Is there anything in what we're considering here that addresses? MS. CACCHIONE: No. COMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. Was that something that was discussed by the staff and the consultant? MS. CACCHIONE: No, it was not. COMMISSIONER VOLPE.. This is an issue that has come up in a number of different contexts where we've got some of the shopping centers; and apparently, except that this STP is where you have the opportunity to start talking about how many of these outparcels there will be. And as I understand it, there are very few controls that currently exist, and so we'have a situation, in my view, like Home Depot that has Checkers and has Swift Oil or whatever it's going to be, and we have a number of other shopping centers where we see, as I recall, these outparcels cropDing up. And I would like to think that we could come up with some development standards or some controls, if you will, as to how we determine the number of these outparcels. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 247 MS. CACCHIONE: Basically the PUD's will set the number of outparcels. But in the straight zoning, P-l, Two, Three, Four, it's at the site development plan and there are no requirements that say you can have one, two or ten. So that's something we can look at and come back to you with. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, like in an activity center and you've got a large commercial development like Riverchase. How does one determine how many outparcels there will be? Or Berkshire Lakes or any of the others? I mean, who says how many outparcels there will be? MS. CACCHIONE: It's usually through the -- if it's a PUD, it will be a procedure of negotiation and final approval by the Board. If it's straight zoning, then it's an administrative decision in site development plan, and there are no standards where we can say two is all you can have or seven is all you can have or ten is all you can have. If they properly design it and have the parking for it, there is no restriction on the number on straight OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 248 zoning site development plan. MR. BRUTT: Commissioner Volpe, you and Commissioner Hasse had spoken to this issue before. Frank Brutt, for the record. We are investigating parameters on which we can come back with you for such a discussion as to how do you desire to set the policy decision on such an issue. I communicated that fact to the manager. But it basically would be a policy decision by the Board of County Commissioners to decide: Do you desire to control what was originally the old strip center. Then we got away from the strip center and we went into the shopping center, to the beautiful view from the road, to the major facade of the major activities. Now the economic interest is developing and they're recognizing those outparcels -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I'm just surprised that it isn't something the staff has addressed as part of this Unified Land Development regulation. I think it's -- I think it may not be, you know, not a burning issue, but it certainly seems to be an issue, something that we have discussed previously. Like the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 249 Town Center is another one of those examples. I mean, you're just -- I mean that looks like a strip center. I mean, you know. MR. BRUTT: Probably worse around. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You've got Perkins. You've got Ponderosa. You've got all those different gas stations. MR. BRUTT: I believe that the people from Collier would tell you that when they first came in with one of their plans they had seven or eight outparcels on a major development, and the staff was quite persuasive in how to rearrange the interior design and the infamous egress from the major road. COS~ISSIONER VOLPE: I just think it's an issue. I don't know how the staff was able to work through that without some sort of standards to be applied. MR. BRUTT: Mostly on those, it was the ingress/egress factors from the major access road. But as far as a policy decision as to how many or something, we'll have to bring that back and discuss it with you. CO~ISSIONER VOLPE: Would that be appropriate to discuss it as a part of these land development OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 250 regulations? MR. BRUTT: As we move forward in the process, I think it can be accomplished, yes, if you desire. COb~iISSIOMER VOLPE: the commercial districts. Because it does fit into one of Right? MS. CACCHIONE: What I'm hearing is you would like us to look at the limitation on the number of outparcels and development standards for each of those outparcels. C05~ISSIONER VOLPE: Limitation is the wron~ word. Just a mechanism for determining how many outparcels may be appropriate. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Barbara, on the CPC letter now, just so that I understand what the final action is goin~ to be. As I recall, the Board had a consensus on the final subdivision plat approvals last week, and you're going to respond to the exemptions. Although the staff has taken a position on exemptions being the building permit, you're goino re-discuss that and brin~ it back before us. Is that correct? MS. CACCHIONE: Yes. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 251 COMI~ISSIONER SHANAHAN: And then, finally, on the planned development. You're going to come back with some language change that may in fact suggest or recommend that the parcel -- the PUD be larger and the infill parcels may be larger. MS. CACCHIONE: Yes. COMStISSIONER SHANAHAN: Okay. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Okay. MS. CACCHIONE: Mr. Joe Delate will give you a brief presentation on the landscaping. MR. DELATE: Good morning, Commissioners. My name is Joe Delate, your Planning Services staff. Before you you have Section 2.4, which is the landscape and buffering section. COS~ISSIONER VOLPE: MR. DELATE:, Yes. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Are we in the green? There are some white side sheets. Do you want to call off that number again? Where is it? MR. DELATE: It's page 2-96, Division 2.4. Let me start out by saying that this land -- quote, landscape code is a compilation of an independent landscape code committee, their proposal, our staff's OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 252 proposal, and input from the Unified Land Code ad hoc committee. I'm going to present a brief overview of proposed changes from the present code, which is included in this proposed draft. In this code we have added to the purpose and intent section of the code, defined more responsibility for the landscaping requirements. We have also expanded on the landscape procedures. We have added requirements and specifications for specifics, for irrigation, pruning, and plant materials standards. This new code now incorporates part of the exotics species ordinance. It creates criteria for crediting of existing plant material and expands on the interior landscape requirements. Also adds to the minimum landscaping for individual sites. And, finally, through this code, there is a landscape screening and buffering standards. We have addressed buffering between adjacent lands uses, and we have created standards and criteria for the buffers. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, ~laples, Florida 33962 253 I would like to add that that last section, the landscaping and buffering, is somewhat of an area of discussion that needs to be had between us and the land code committee. That -- our recent version has not been reviewed by the county attorney's office or the consultant and -- it's contained in your side sheets. Okay. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them. . CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Questions? COMMISISONER SHANAHAN: No disagreement between staff and the advisory group? MR. DELATE: The only disagreement that really we're going -- we have slated for further discussion is section -- CONMISSIONER SHANAHAN: 2.4.7.1. MR. DELATE: Right. Which is the landscape and filtering and screening requirements between the uses. Excuse me, sir. (WhereuDon, Mr. Delate approach the podium with handouts.) MR. DELATE: Our county attorney's office has OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, ~;aples, Florida 33962 254 instructed me to have you look at the yellow sheets within your package and -- for Division 2.4.7. And that is the staff side sheets. That will give you a brief idea of where the language differs that we're looking at. We still have slated this for further discussion, but that will give you an idea of the staff's position on this matter. COmmISSIONER SHANAHAN: Staff's position is the yellow page on 2.4.7.1. 5JR. DELATE: Correct. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Can you just summarize what the position is and what the other position is, what the points of debate are? MR. DELATE: Basically -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Just so we have a sense. MR. DELATE: Section 2.4.7.2. The areas of disagreement are in the type of buffering, when that buffering will actually apply, and, specifically, in the standards for, as far as the different type of buffering and actually in the size differences. I'm sorry. Not the size differences, but 255 where it would apply. Also, for buffering along vehicular rights of way. There is somewhat of a disagreement on that. COmmISSIONER VOLPE: You mentioned something about incorporating the exotics in landscaping? MR. DELATE: Right. COS~[ISSIONER VOLPE: I thought the exotic was the ones that we wanted to get rid of. MR. DELATE: Correct. What I meant by that is that we have a separate ordinance on exotic species right now, and we've taken part of that and included that in the tree removal section, vegetation removal. The other part of that ordinance, we have included in this. In the landscaping we deal with the prohibition of planting, growing, transporting, et cetera, of exotic species. COS~ISSIONER VOLPE: We were talking about shopping centers before, and I notice that the amount of green space required in shopping centers. Are we reducing the amount of green space required in shopping centers? Because the percentage are being OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 256 reduced from -- MR. DELATE: Okay. COMMISSIOMER VOLPE: -- seven percent to two percent. MR. DELATE: That needs to be looked at again, but essentially we have increased the interior landscape requirements for shopping centers as far as parking islands, islands that break up the parking; and by doing that, that has increased the amount of landscaping within a parking lot. If we would have left the exact figure from the previous ordinance, you would have had approximately seventeen percent of your pavement area in interior landscaping. What we have done is by adjusting interior landscaping, we have also adjusted this new figure, the other figure. CO~.~ISSIONER VOLPE: What is the net result? Does that mean we're goin~ to have more green -- MR. MERRILL: Actually, it's an increase. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- in our shopping centers or decreased green? MR. DELATE: It's an increase of about one and a OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 257 half percent of the unpaved area. CO~IMISSIOMER VOLPE: Wait a second. MR. DELATE: I'm sorry. CO~D~ISSIOMER VOLPE: Unpaved. ~R. MERRILL: Unpaved area. This area probably needs to be re-discussed. I talked about -- to our county attorney's office about this briefly, and they felt because the Board had recently approved this section, we might want to go back to the original proposal of the parking ordinance, which was approved approximately six months ago. The original ordinance that you had passed. CHAIR~N GOODNIGHT: Mr. Richardson. MR. RICHARDSOn;: Yes. Thank you. Dwight Richardson. I'm just here rising in support of Joe and the work that the staff has done, and just to suggest to the commisioners that this portion of the Land Development Code, 2.4, and the yellow and pink sheets you see have mostly been resolved since these sheets have been put together. We do have, as Joe indicated, remaining discussion OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 258 to have on the buffering and screening, but I would like to point out that our concerns are not so much in intent. We're just trying to figure out what the right kind of language is. One of the problems that we have and need to work our way through is between this section and the design requirements section of John's because he is requiring certain easements to be created as part of the design requirements for a site. We are requiring buffering strips to be created. We need to have some creative way to reflect the requirements for buffering strips and the easements that are required through subdivision or through other development standards so that we're not stacking them up end to end. We don't really intend to create a hundred and fifty feet of buffering or --~excuse me -- of green area. We want to have the right amount along a vehicular right-of-way with the right kind of spacing for trees and the right kind of plant standards. So we just need to inter-relate those two sections so that we can make this come out the way we want it. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 259 CO~ISSIONER VOLPE: What happens?. You mean -- we're looking for some permanent buffering, though. MR. RICHARDSON: Yes. CO~ISSIO~ER VOLPE: And what you're talking about is easements where we've got road rights-of-way. I mean -- ~R. DELATE: That's the conflict. COmmISSIONER VOLPE: Yeah. MR. RICHARDSON: But what we're really running into is if you add up all of the requirements, the first thing you know you don't have any room for the building. And that wasn't our intention. Our intention was to have a certain amount of green space, a certain sequence of canopy trees and a certain kind of -- depending on what the conjunction of uses are, what uses against what kind of buffering goes in there. We're really very close, but I think we have some mechanical stuff to work out. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Looking at both the committee side sheet and the staff side sheet on 2.4.7.1, it looks like they're almost identical. Just in a quick read. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 260 MR. DELETE: MR. RICHARDSON: MR. MADAJEWSKI: Real close. Just some slight language. Dwight -- MR. DELATE: I wanted to say that Dwight is right. Since this time when we have produced the staff sheets, we have discussed this further and we're close to coming to an agreement. By our public hearing -- we should have an agreement by the time of the planning commission. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: John. MR. MADAJEWSKI: For the record, John Madajewski. Just to clarify what Dwight is saying. In subdivisions, we have referred to all of the requirements for the plantings, the size of the buffering strips, to this Division 2.4. The only other issue I would bring to light would be where there are inconsistencies, we have tried to prepare language that would allow use by more than one entity of an easement as long as it could be verified that that easement where the buffering would be could not be taken out later and then we have lost the buffer. That's why we do not have buffering strips within OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 261 the rights-of-way. If it's not compatible use. We have tried to look at incorporating drainage easement with landscape buffers, as long as the drainage is just for routing of surface flow and could be properly zoned. We have had a couple projects that's worked on. But if we're looking at putting the buffer strip on top of a utility and that sort of thing, that's totally inconsistent. We could have either county utility, depending on who the easement and drainage is to, or FPL could come in and tear that out at no obligation to ever put it back, unless the property owner's association is going to do that, and that puts us into the potential fight with the property owner's association to put back what was originally required to properly screen the area. So it's something that needs to be looked at closely so we don't -- we have a failsafe system. SIR. RICHARDSON: Just a closing general co~ent, and then I'll get off the soapbox here. As a member of the public that has been laboring on your committee here, you know, I have sat in on a lot of meetings where we talked about what was going to go underground and the size of the pipes and all that sort of OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 262 stuff, and how they're going to enforce that. And it's all very interesting, but it's not nearly as important to most of us in Collier County as to wht goes above the ground and how it looks. And this division on -- the section on 2.4 is, I think, one of the finest sections on landscaping as you're going find anywhere in the state. It's going to work, and we've got some really neat ideas that have been pulled into this after a lot of hard discussion, and I think it's the section that we're all going to be very proud of by the time we're through with it. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Thank you. COb~ISSIONER VOLPE: Is there a provision for bonding agent in these buffering areas? MR. DELATE: Yes, there is. The committee has proposed a bonding of the landscaping so that one year after the date of the -- completion of the CO they would have a reinspection to guarantee that the landscaping would have been maintained and agreed to our standards, that we have established in our code. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 263 COSiMISSIONER VOLPE: going forward. MR. DELATE: plant material be fertilized, watered, pruned, et cetera. CO~4ISSIONER VOLPE: And who has the responsibility for that? MR. DELATE: Right. MR. DORRILL: The owner of the property. CHAIRStAN GOODNIGHT: Is there any other question? Is that all, Joe? MR. DELATE: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Thank you. You have done an excellent job on this landscaping. MR. MADAJEWSKI: MR. RICHARDSON: After the one-year period then, There are requirements in here that the Right. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Is there another item now? MR. ~DAJEWSKI: Simple little -- CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: The Article Two zoning. Is that the next thing, John? MR. ~ADAJEWSKI: No, I have one to bring back just for clarification as to what the planning committee had touched on, on Thursday. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 264 COmmISSIONER VOLPE: Are we all finished with the zoning, the landscaping and buffering? Signs. Is there anything else on signs? MR. MADAJEWSKI: No. We chanqed them. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Smaller and less of them. CHAIR~N GOODNIGHT: All right. How many of them do we have left? If we don't have much left, then we won't take the break. We have a stenographer here, so that we're going to need to take a break if we've got another forty or fifty minutes. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: How about fifteen or twenty? MR. MADAJEWSKI: CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: wait that long. COMMISSIO~IER HASSE: been thirty seconds. COM~iISSIO~[ER SHANAHAN: his throat. MR. MzADAJEWSKI: Thirty seconds. Okay. Come on back. She can I don't think John has ever Takes him that long to clear In Division 3.8, that's the Environmental Impact Statements, starts on page 3-114. COMMISSIOMER HASSE: Where? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 265 COmmISSIONER SHANAHAN: Green. COS~[ISSIONER HASSE: What color? MR. MADAJEWSKI: 3-114, the green sheets. If you'll turn to the next page, 3.15, at the top is Section 3.8.3, Submission and Review of EIS's. In reviewing this, the Planning Commission members had asked staff to come up with some proposed language to add in some criteria for the preparer of the EIS; and I just wanted to let the Board know that we have prepared some language on this, on this one, that we will be submitting back to the committee, but we feel it's fairly benign. Basically says that the author or authors of the EIS shall provide eivdence by academic credentials and/or experience of his or her expertise in the area of environmental sciences and/or natural resources management. So it just basically gives some qualifications of the preparer, of works in the field. Just forgot to insert that on Thursday. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Okay. Is there anything else? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 266 MR. MERRILL: Madam Chairman, one other thing that I think it would be a good time to -- I don't know, a motion or take some type of a consensus action of the Board as to how we should proceed towards our public hearings. We are now, as I understand it, complete with a nun~er of public workshops at this time and we would be moving into the public hearings starting with the Planning Commission. What I would recommend, and we briefly discussed this with the committee, is that rather than retaining all of the sides sheets that have been agreed upon and all the underlined and striked through -- I can see. Everyone gets kind of confused. Even I get a little bit confused as to which side sheet is -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Even you? COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Really? MR. MERRILL: And what I would recommend -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Great admission. MR. MERRILL: -- would be to, for us to produce a revised, new clean copy of the Land Development Code which incorporates the agreed upon changes between the staff and OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 267 the committee and myself, that we can agree upon between them; and when that document is produced, it could also produce -- include any consensus items that the Board has discussed; and also needs to include the definitions that we can develop. And we're still working on those. In addition, it will include the other ordinance changes that have already been passed, the APFO, density bonus, historical and preservation, that have been left out that have been recently adjusted. The -- that would be the first part of the motion. And the second part of the motion would be any changes that I have, as a consultant, view from legal review or consistency review with your Comprehensive Plan would be, but those would be shown as a double underline if there is a major substantive change. If non-substantive or very minor type of a change, like -- I can't think of something right off hand, but very minor in my opinion -- I wouldn't waste anyone's time in doing that double underlining change. If there is a misspelling or something; or talking about a land use district and it says designation and in my opinion it does not change tke meaning of it, then I OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 268 probably -- we could show those, but I think it would clutter the document up. COSRdISSIONER HASSE: Change it. MR. MERRILL: And in some, I have noticed in the designations, in the later part of Article Three, that will need formatting correction. There are formatting problems in those right now as far as the order, even though it does not change the substance of those. But I do need to change the format around so that we have the steady uniformed flow as we have developed in the part, first part of Section 2.4. Again, we have the general submissions and review and then we have standards, and I want to follow that same format flow in all of the different divisions. And, finally, in the third part, so we have produced a new, clean document with all of the consensus included. The second part would be: Any substantial changes would be double underlined in that document. That would have been -- be the only marking that, that's in the new document. And then the third part: Any then disagreement, whether furtiler discussion or disagreements or anything OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 269 else, will be shown on side sheets. I think it's a little bit confusing to call something disagreement and further discussion and then some other category, there is no resolution, and so many different categories, one type of side sheet. And those we haven't agreed on it at this point, we'll submit those. And I think that will allow more for the resolution in a public hearing format to the final document that we're approaching. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: That will be fine. And I think that way, we'll be able to understand it and the public that sits here will be able to understand, also. MR. MERRILL: I think during the workshop, we were -- that was appropriate because we were juggling many things. And now as the public hearings -- I think we have narrowed a number of issues, that we will go ahead and include those. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: this represents so and so? MR. MERRILL: Yes. COmmISSIONER VOLPE: You will have a legend so that The other things where you have OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 270 said, for example, you as consultant may be proposing some change. MR. MERRILL: Uh-huh. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Can you footnote? I mean are you going to explain that, as to why, or are we to just accept that? MR. MERRILL: What I will do is put any -- I'll do double underlinings; and then what we can do is during the public hearing process, I can give you an overview why I have done that. I think otherwise it could be confusing as to what is and what isn't. The other time to -- actually, the staff had some problems with what I did, but the committee was comfortable with most of the things that I did. CO5~ISSIONER VOLPE: Are these points that are requiring further discussion, would they be included in a single document to follow -- as to that article, at Article Two of the zoning, rather than having sixty-nine -- MR. MERRILL: We'll put a page number so that you know where it actually fits in. I don't know if pink and green or yellow sheets this OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 271 time, but we'll come up with one copy of the document that will be the clean document with the exception of my double underlining areas. And hopefully -- I have only heard of a few areas where there is further discussion or disagreement that will have yet to be resolved, and that will be on side sheets and able to be inserted if there is one. COMMISSIONER HASSE: brought up. MR. MERRILL: have it on there. Three, that John Madajewski If there is one that comes in, we'll And that will be on the other. COMMISSIONER VOL?E: Have we heard from our consultant, our $20,000 consultant at that time? Have we heard from him? MR. MADAJEWSKI: Yes. We have his proposal and we have a meeting scheduled for three thirty. CO~IMISSIO~ER VOLPE: meeting we heard -- MR. MADAJEWSKI: No. That's like deja vu. Today. That last We have that scheduled with attorneys group and go over that and hopefully put it in document. COmmISSIONER VOLPE: But we're not going to workshop OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 272 that? MR. MADAJEWSKI: No. CO~ISSIONER VOLPE: Since we hired a consultant and done all of that, and that seems to be critical issues, don't you think we should talk about it? MR. MADAJEWSKI: I would say that we can definitely come back and do it. I would suggest to let us go over the item and document and see if there is any -- CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: So if -- MR. MADAJEWSKI: wouldn't be any need. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: -- any need. If we resolve, there If there is a disagreement, we won't need to workshop it; and if it's okay, we'll go to the public workshop. MR. MERRILL: If we can resolve everything, I would like to include it in the next public hearing. COb]MISSIO~TER VOLPE: That's what -- why I have brought it up. We haven't even touched on it. MR. MADAJEWSKI: Based on the direction that staff is going to do that, I think what you'll see is that that is greatly pared down and will more or less be faced. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, ~at~les, Florida 33962 273 COMMISSIONER HASSE: We will have here, this -- a look book like this at that time? MR. MERRILL: We do have almost exactly two weeks before we'll start working on the final document for the public hearing. So anything that we can resolve up to that time, great. If not, we will have -- we've got some work to do. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Mark? MR. ~IORTON: Just for clarification. We have lsndscape lunch briefing set, attended to, for this afternoon and another with John on zoning, and PUD is Wednesday. So we're trying to -- booking ourselves pretty heavy, but some of these issues may take even longer because these sessions are people -- typically people with chalkboards and drawing and setbacks, and it's fairly difficult to maximize. It's planners, so it takes five or six hours to do it. COMMISSIONER HASSE: May I? Look also carefully at these master plans that were approved by the people in the area, basically, and if we OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 274 tear them apart very much -- and I have to keep referring back to the Golden Gate Master Plan, which incorporated the commercial area along the Golden Gate Parkway, which was a problem. And it had been resolved rather nicely, I think, and so did the people. MR. MERRILL: So don't tear it apart. We are not going into PUD's, in fact. COMMISSIONER HASSE: You talked about PUD before and changing this to a PUD, and that might disrupt the type of growth that they were going to have there. MR. MERRILL: Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: What I anticipate in the public hearing is that we won't review each one of the 1.1, Two, Three, Four. We're just going to find out if there is a problem. If you got it changed, then we want to know about it and we want it brought up. If there is I guess everybody agrees or if there's disagreement, we want to know about it, and then we will listen to any comments from the public. And then we'll move in that direction. MR. MERRILL: That's what I anticipate, except on OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 275 maybe some of the key isues that have been raised. If there has been a resolution of those issues between the staff and committee at that point, we may bring those up to you so you'll know. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: That's will be fine, but as far as going point by point, I don't anticipate on doing that. MR. MERRILL: Right. And that way, the public can have more participation in the process without us going on and on and on. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Will you print on both sides of the page? I mean, it will cut this in half. ~R. MERRILL: Yes. COmmISSIONER HASSE: COmmISSIONER SHANAHAN: paper? CHAIR~N GOODNIGHT: (Conclude at 11:55 a.m.) It will look like less. We are using recycled The workshop is adjourned. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962 2'76 STATE OF FLORIDA ) COUNTY OF COLLIER ) I, Connie S. Potts, Notary Public and Deputy Official Court Reporter of the State of Florida, and the 20th Judicial Circuit of Florida, do hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings were taken before me, at the time and place as stated in the caption hereto, at Page 1 hereof; that I was authorized to and did attend said proceedings and report the same by computer-assisted Stenotype; that the foregoing computer-assisted typewritten transcription consis~isg of pages numbered 175 through 275, inclusive, is a true and accurate transcript of my Stenotype notes of the transcript of proceedings taken at said time. IN WITNESS WHEREOF I have hereunto subscribed my name this 4th day of September, 1991. Connie S. Potts, Notary Public State of Florida at Large Deputy Official Court Reporter OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Collier County Courthouse, Naples, Florida 33962