BCC Minutes 09/05/1991 SORIGINAL
COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
PUBLIC HEARING
September 5, 1991
5:05 p.m.
Third Floor Boardroom
Collier County Courthouse
Naples, Florida 33962
Reported by:
Jaoquelyn D. McMiller
Deputy Official Court Reporter
Notary Public
State of Florida at Large
TELEs
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
Carrothers Reporting Service, Inc.
20th Judicial Circuit - Collier County
3301 East Tamiami Trail
Naples, Florida 33962
(813) 732-2700 FAX, (813) 774-6022
OFFICIAL COUR~ REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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PROCEEDINGS
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT~ I'll call the meeting to
order.
All rise.
Mr. Dotrill, if you will lead us in a word of
prayer.
(Invocation .and pledge of allegiance was had
and board meeting continued as follows:)
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Good afternoon or good
evening, it's still afternoon. We have a new lady that's
taking minutes tonight so if you'll please make sure that
you give your name for the record because she's not
familiar with all of us, so if you will identify
yourselves.
I think she knows the commissioners because she
sees our name plates but otherwise if anyone else
speaking if they'll identify themselves for the record so
we can get our minutes correct, I'd appreciate it. Mr.
Weeks.
MR. WEEKS: Good evening, commissioners.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
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My name is David Weeks and I'm the Senior Planner
with your Growth Planning Staff. The purpose of
tonight'~ hearing, which is the first of two hearings,
we'll be having the second hearing on the same subject
matter at 6~00 p.m. in this room on September the 16th.
The purpose of the hearing is to discuss the
rezoning of properties that are inconsistently zoned with
our Growth Management Plan and that are unimproved. This
is being done through the implementation of the Zoning
Re-evaluation Ordinance which was adopted pursuant to
policy 3.1(k) of the Future Land Use Element of the
Collier County Growth Management Plans.
A brief background, which is also included in your
executive summary, the Growth Management Plan was adopted
on January 10th of 1989 and included within that plan is
the Future Land Use Element which is a key for providing
guidance to the development of the county.
Part of the Future Land Use Element is the
aforementioned policy 3.1(k) which provides for the
establishment of a Zoning Re-Evaluation Program and then
when we adopted our Zoning Re-Evaluation O=dinance in
March of last year that was the implementing land.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
development regulation.
There are certain reasons or several purposes for
the Zoning Re-Evaluation Program. Key amongst those, as
identified in the executive summary, was the concern for
the hurricane evacuation capa~ility, concern for the wide
disparity between the County's ability to provide public
services and facilities and the projected demand for
those services and facilities based upon the potential
population under the existing zoning on the ground.
The finding that affords a density of four units
per acre in the urban area is a generally appropriate
density subject to the provisions of the Density Rating
System and concern over the development patterns
resulting from the existing commercial zoning on the
ground, both in isolated locations in some instances and
also the strip pattern.
As far as the process of the Zoning Re-Evaluation
Program, we've accomplished the majority of this already
in sending out certified mail notices to property owners
in July ¢,f 1990 or, shortly thereafter, advising the
property owners that their property was subject to a
potential rezoning, through this program, advising of a
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120 day time period in which to submit applications in an
effort to preserve their zoning.
It included the holding of workshops in each of the
planning communities whereby staff was available to
discuss the process and the applications with the public
and of course provide for the actual fezone hearings,
this being one of the fezone hearings.
As you recall, we concluded on January 7th of this
year the rezoning of about 40, excuse me, about 50
commercially zoned properties under this program.
Tonight we're dealing primarily with residential
property. We have a few unique properties, one
commercial and, I think, an agricultural in there but the
majority of properties for tonight's discussion are
currently zoned residential of some sort.
We sent out notices on -- earlier this year in July
advising of this public hearing as well as the one to
follow and the two Planning Commission Hearings.
Now moving on to the discussion of the subject
matter at hand, the actual rezoning of the properties.
The Density Rating System, which is included in the
Future Land Use Element provides for a base density of
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
four units per acre for properties in the urban area,
also includes provisions to increase that density or to
decrease that density based upon a variety of criteria.
One of the criteria is activity centers and then
the density bands around those. We came before you,
Staff, November of last year and discussed properties
that would fall within density bands, if it might be
appropriate to go ahead and award the additional density
of three units per acre and at our suggestion you
concurred and gave us that direction, that it was
appropriate to consider the additional density.
Another issue that we had discussed before you had
to do with the accounting for infrastructure requirements
for residential development. Staff's position from the
beginning in evaluating properties has been to make a
recommendation to fezone properties to the base density
in the urban areas, generally three or four units per
acre. And, when you take into account infrastructure
requirements that the RFS-3 single-family zoning district
is the closest without going over that base of four units
per acre and that is primarily the zoning district that
we are recommending as we go through the properties and
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
as the maps have identified, we have varied that
recommendation as we deemed appropriate.
In all cases, for our recommendations the existing
overlay districts are to remain in tact. For example,
the ST Special Treatment Overlay. Through this process,
it is not our intent to remove any of those overlay
districts.
We have one, in particular, unique circumstance,
and again we'll discuss it further when we get to the
property, out in the agricultural rural designation on
U.S. 41, east, a property that was rezoned from Mobile
Home Subdivision to Agricultural A-2 during the
previously mentioned commercial round of rezonings
concluded on January 7th of this year.
That rezoning occurred erroneously. It was due to
a mistake on Staff's part that we described the wrong
property. The property that was, in fact, :~ezoned was
improved, and therefore not subject to this process. So,
in fact, we're recommending that property be rezoned from
A-2 back to Mobile Home Subdivision, the zoning that it
previously held. Again, that was because we didn't have
the authority to fezone it in the first place through
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
this process.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
as a mobile home?
MR. WEEKS~
Is it consistent with the plan
It's consistent, via policy 5.9 of the
Future Land Use Element, which provides that improved
properties are consistent and allow to -- to development.
We have three PUD's included in tonight's rezoning,
all located on U.S. 41, East, on the south side of the
trail in the urban coastal fringe and also within the
traffic congestion area. These PUD's, based upon the
Density Rating System, are limited to a maximum density
of four units per acre. Again, we'll discuss those more
specifically as we come to those.
Something a little bit unique about one of the
PUD's is the Lake Avalon PUD. Unique, in the sense that
the property has applications pending, not yet reviewed,
which means we should not be taking any zoning actions on
those, however, the property owner has specifically
requested that we do include their property. So, it is
being included and will be discussed.
All of PUD's have a few things in common as far as
recommended changes go. One is, of course, to reduce the
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density to a consistent density, in this case, three
units per acre; changes both within the master plan and
the text to reflect that; adding or modifying a statement
of compliance to explain why the project is consistent
with our Growth Management Plan; deleting defunct
terminology such as Zoning Director since we no longer
have a Zoning Director by title. It's now the Planning
Services Director and other similar terms that are no
longer applicable.
Also, regarding the provision for interconnection,
which is one of the provisions in the Density Rating
System, we've made the statement in each of the three
PUD's that it is not appropriate to interconnect with
adjacent properties.
Commissioners, as you might recall earlier this
year in February at a night hearing, the Growth
Management Plan was amended to now require
interconnection with adjacent properties if it's deemed
appropriate and physically possible and that if that
interconnection is not provided, where it is deemed
appropriate and it's possible, then up to one unit per
acre can be subtracted from the density for the property.
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In our analysis of these properties, with one
exception, we are making the finding that interconnection
is not appropriate and therefore are not recommending any
reduction in density based upon that. The one parcel is
a commercial parcel and again, we can discuss it more
specifically as we get to that property.
Moving on towards wrapping up my presentation
initially, the Conklin Point Island parcel is a property
up in North Naples also where an application, under the
Zoning Re-Evaluation Program was granted, but property
owner has requested that be included in this process.
The owne~ts representative is here to speak further to
that.
The options that are available to us in rezoning
these properties are a little bit more expanded than
perhaps we initially had thought.
Number one, we can fezone these properties to a
district consistent with the Growth management Plan,
utilizing the Density Rating System Provisions.
Secondly and thirdly, there's the ability to not
fezone properties at all or to fezone them to another
district that is otherwise inconsistent with the plan
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based upon finding that rezoning the property to a
consistent district would not result in development that
is compatible with surrounding properties; and/or
secondly, that rezoning the property to a consistent
zoning district would not result in a minimum beneficial
use of the property, in effect, a taking of the property.
Potentially, in some cases, we might rezone a
property and you might make the finding that if we rezone
that to a consistent district, the property owner has to
reasonable use of their property and then potentially we
would be guilty of a taking of that property, taking awayi
their rights and not compensating for that.
In Staff's review of the properties we have not
made the finding in any case that rezoning to a
consistent district would not leave them minimum
beneficial use. H~ever, we have in some cases,
uses that are compatible with the surrounding zoning.
In each case these are identified on your maps and
as we go through the pro~rties I'll point that out as
well.
The planning commission has met twice to discuss
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agent and again,
these properties, the first time on August the 5th and
then the second time where they made their formal
recommendation to you on August the 19th. There were
sc~ue public speakers, they are -- who are here and I
believe the same ones to speak on specific properties,
and wetve also received some letters, six of them, and as
we go through the properties again Itll point out the
letters and the correspondence that we've received.
The Lake Avalon PUD I mentioned, in particular,
because of its unique status in that it has an
application pending but the property owners requested it
be included.
Another unique circumstance about this PUD is that
the property owner is also asking for additional uses to
be added, most specifically, for county parks and for
affordable housing.
Itve included in your back-up, and it's the last
handful o~ papers before you get to your map set, it is
the proposed PUD document prepared by the agent for the
property owners, the Lake Avalon PUD, and it includes in
bold print the changes proposed by the property owner's
that's regarding affordable housing.
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Again, we can discuss that further but I'm just letting
you know 'that Staff, as well as the Planning Commission,
did not endorse the proposed changes.
As far as the fiscal impact goes, it is very likely
that by rezoning these properties to reduce their density
or intensity that there may be some reduction in their
assessed values. Bowever, given the relatively small
number of properties and their sizes compared to the
county as a whole, we find that this is an insignificant
reduction in fiscal impact.
As far as the growth management impact goes, we are
implementing policy 3.1(k) of the Future Land Use Element
by taking action on the subject properties.
As I mentioned at the outset, this is first of two
hearings, the second being on September the 16th. the
purpose of tonight's hearing is to discuss the
propertie~, perhaps to do as Planning Commission did at
their first hearing and take a straw vote on each
property, such that at their second hearing it may be a
matter of simply saying, "Yes, we still agree with that.
Let's mow~ on."
And, also of course to hear from the public as well
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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as from us, your staff, end to give us any direction you
might deem appropriate, ask for any additional
information to be presented to you at the second hearing.
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Mad.am Chairman, in conclusion, the very last page,
eight and a half by eleven before you get to your map
set, is an explanation, a key, of the map set itself,
what the different writing and scribbling and so forth on
there means.
The properties that are highlighted in yellow are
the subject properties. These are the properties that
we're discussing tonight for potential zoning action.
The properties that are highlighted in blue are
properties that have an application pending, which means
we can not take action on them. We've identified those
properties, those with applications pending in blue, so
that you can see why in some cases we're recommending
action not be taken on certain properties.
Just as we did for the commercial properties, on
several properties tonight we'll be discussing, Staff is
recommending that we not take any action to rezone
certain properties because in very close proximity is a
property with an application pending. The outcome of
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that application would affect our ultimate recommendation
to you on what to do with the subject properties.
The Planning Commission's recommendation, as well
as Staff's, is provided on the map set and it should be
highlighted to draw your attention to it. We've included
both for your information but as you know the formal
recommendation that comes to you is that of the Planning
Commission.
Also, where there are PUD's on the zoning map in
most cases you'll see we've identified the density of
that PUD for your information.
In some cases, we have the letter "C" or the word,
Compatibility, that's where Staff, as I mentioned earlier
we would, we've recommended that the zoning remain the
same so as to allow from for uses compatible with the
surrounding properties.
Finally, in some cases you'll see the letters
"W/H", cex pending near -- CEX, Compatibility Exception
pending nearby. That's, again, indicating that there's
an application c~ose by that's under review.
Madam Chairman, my last comment is this, that the
second hearing in front of the Planning Commission, the
OFFICIAL COU~T REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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acting chairman decided it might be best if we first
would look at the properties for which we have members of
the public here to speak so that we could do away with
those and then come back to the remainder properties and
I offer that as a suggestion to you. I'm prepared to
identify the map numbers and the parcels and so forth if
you so desire.
COMMISSIONER RASSE.. You're not suggesting we do
away with the public, are you? I just wanted to make
sure of that.
MR. WEEKS~ No, sir, not at all, just a matter of
convenience.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: It's a little play on words
there, David.
MR. WEEKS~ Pardon me.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: That's a little play on
words there.
MR. WEEKS, Yes, sir. No, just as a matter of
convenience.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT = Okay.
If Fou'11 identify the ones that have some problems
to them, then.
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MR.. WEEKS~ Yes, ma'am.
I'll take them in the same orders as they would
come in the maps. It's the very third map. The map
numbers are in the lower right-hand corner and I'll be
referring to those. The very third page which is map
number 8509-S.
COKMISSIONER SHANAHAN: 8509-S.
MR. WEEKS~ Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's the third map?
MR. WEEKS~ Yes, sir.
This is the one and only property that's zoned
commercial. It's C-4. As the map clearly shows, to the
north and south are properties zoned A-2, agricultural.
This is located on Tamiami Trail on the east side, north
of the split between old and new U.S. 41.
Adjacent to the east of this property is the
Meadowbrook Estates PUD. Now, this PUD allows
multi-family uses at nine units per acre. The entire
western half of the Meadowbrook Estates PUD, that is the
half that abuts the subject property, is all preserved
area, both wetland or upland preserved area which means
it will not be development with residential uses.
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Then across the street we have the Retreat PUD
which is an improved property so we'll be allowed to
continue to develop at three and a half units per acre
and then property highlighted in blue is the Village
Place PUD at a density of about five and half units per
acre. It has a ZRO application pending.
Staff~s recommendation was to fezone the
property -- or is to fezone the property to RSF-3 and
with a requirement to interconnect the properties to the
north and south. Planning Commissionts recommendation,
again the formal recommendation to you, is to fezone the
property to RMF-12, cap the density at 9 units per acre
and require an interconnection to the north.
CH~..IRMAN GOODNIGHT z Okay.
Do we have some speakers?
MS. ORSHEFSKY~ Good evening, Madam Chairman,
members of the commission. My name is Debbie Orshefsky.
Itm an attorney with offices in Fort Lauderdale
representing the owner of the property, Doctor William
Anderson who's here this evening. With me also is Bob
Dwayne with Hole-Montes who has been our planning
consultant in this -- in these proceedings.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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ThXs is kind of an interesting situation. The site
as you see it in the pink right there, we have been
proceeding to try to work with Staff and respond to the
Planning Commission's considerations, if this is a
residential site. We've been all long seeking an RMF-12
density that would allow some a multi-family residential
developm~nt here and of late, we've been reviewing the
map and preparing for these proceedings and what we'd
really like to ask you to do tonight is not fezone this
property but rather to keep it in its present commercial
designation or consider some other appropriate commercial
designation, but keep it commercial.
through -.-
CCPC?
And let me go
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Was that request made to our
MS. ORSBEFSKY~ No, it was not.
COmmiSSIONER VOLPE: So, you're making that request
for the first time this evening?
MS. ORSHEFSKY~ That's correct.
We understand that that's within -- among the
options that this Board has to consider this evening, as
Mr. Week~ described just a few moments ago.
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CO!~ISSIONER HASSE: Mr. Cuyler, is that proper?
MR. CUYLER~ I think it's within the Board's
discretion to do that, as David said, it's one of your
options. It does cause me a little concern that the
Planning Commission wasn't given that option. But in any
event, they did not recommend that. They recommended
RMF-12 with a density of -- cap of 9. So, I guess you
can take that as a recommendation of denial for the
commercial request being made by the Petitioner and
proceed Gn that basis.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Was that discussed by the
Planning Commission, commercial, in this area?
MR. WEEKS~ No, it was not.
MR. CUYLER: It wasn't discussed because it wasn't
requeste6.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's the problem that I
have. My understanding -- you know, your theory, but in
this instance I assume what you've said is that you've
been working with our Staff and you've been working
towards a residential zoning and the question has simply
been an issue of density whether it's three which was --
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argument or that was the presentation that was made
before the CCPC which is our advisory board. So, I find
it a little incongruous at this point for you to say,
notwiths'=anding what we've said up to this point for the
first time this evening, t~he first public hearing before
the Board of County Commissioners, we'd like to have you
consider leaving the zoning at C-4.
theory, I think it's inappropriate.
order.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS=
I understand the
I think it's out of
Madam Chairman, one
thought, we'll pose this as question to the Petitioner.
I don't ]lave any particular problem with this remaining
commercial as we consider this. I don't have any
particular problem considering that as commercial
tonight.
If other members of the Board are reluctant to do
so because this was not considered by the planning
commissi¢,n, it may be appropriate to ask Petitioner if
Petitioner would be willing to or desirous of having this
presented to th~ Planning Commission and then brought
back to us for consideration of commercial.
MS. ORSHEFSKY: We would have no problem with that.
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COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS= That's assuming that the
commission or members of the commission feel reluctant to
hear that commercial request because of the failure to
make that request before the Planning Commission.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I have question.
On the map, we have C-4 and then we have RSF-3 and
But up there, there's only C-4 and
then we have A-2.
A-2.
MR. WEEKS
I believe I can explain that. The
piece of RSF-3 property to the south, as I mentioned we
had -- no, I didn't mention that. At any rate, the
property that's currently shown as RSF-3 on the maps that
you have, Madam Chairman, that property was rezoned as
part of the commercial fezone by mistake.
Once again, Staff included the wrong legal
description. We described that piece of property. So,
that RSF-3 parcel you see there was previously zoned A-2,
at the January hearings it was rezoned to RSF-3 and it's
included tonight as part of this hearing to fezone it
back to A-2, what it previously was. That's why I
think --
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT= It is appropriately A-2 today,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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thouph?
MR.. WEEKS~ Pardon me?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: It is A-2 today?
MR. WEEKS: It' s RSF-3 today.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT~ But, it wasn't properly
rezoned to RSF-3, so, you have it up for reconsideration
today?
MR. WEEKS~ That's correct. But, we have not
provided notice --
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: So, it's legally still A-27
CO~IMISSIONER HASSE= It would seem to me, wouldn't
it to you, Mr. Weeks, that if the lower southern part of
this proI~rty is C-4 and the majority of this property is
C-4 or was C-4, I don't understand the two different
designations in between. I just don't understand it.
MR. WEEKS: Okay.
ThE: subject property itself, which is striped, is
parcel 1~:, that's currently zoned C-4, and that's what
we're di~cussing right now, changing. The parcel right
below that, which is designated as RSF-3, that's a
separate parcel that's included.
CO~tMISSIONER HASSE: I heard that.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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MR. WEEKS: I'm not sure if I understand your
question, Mr. Hasse.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, it just seems peculiar
to me that you've got a C-4 piece of property and below
it, two pieces of property away, another C-4, that's a
hodge-pod~e.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, the C-4 to the south,
isn't that a part of the activity center?
MR. WEEKS: I'll certainly check and see.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Debbie, does your client own
what he has said is RSF-3 that was rezoned in January,
the 1.1 acres?
MS. ORSHEPSKY: I ~uess if it, well, we -- my
client owns 9.6 acres and if that -- our property was
improperl? noticed which is why Doctor Anderson didn't
have representatives back here in January when you had
all of your commercial rezoning, down zonings. So, that
1.1 may be a piece of his 9.6.
~?::'- COMMISSIONER HASSE. Well, who knows?
::ii?~' . MR. ORS~EFSKY~ I think that the important point --
~'"':~_,,....i" . I haOn t seen this ma~ until ]us~ ~e~in~ here ~oni~ht
OFFICI~ ~RT ~PORTE~ COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
24
Our understanding is that today, as a matter of
law, what is properly, the proper legal zoning, is as
reflected on that map which is the C-4 that is --
MR. HASSE.' Kathy, please take the mike.
MS. ORSHEFSKY~ The C-4 -- this A-2, I assume is
still A-2 and there may be a little sliver of ours that
was impro]?erly rezoned, that's the 1.1, RSF-3, which was
not properly noticed, which is why our full acreage of
9.6, almost 10, acres is before you this evening for a
rezoning ~o, as Staff recommends, the RS-3.
But., as legal matter, our entire 9.6 acres is C-4
today. That one 1.1 is the glitch why we' re here and we
weren't here in January.
Does that sound right?
MR. CUYLER~ I agree, technically the rezoning of
the RSF-3 --.yes, I agree that it's A-2 because it wasn't
I disagree on the notice point. I think
done properly.
we discussed--
COMi.qISSIONER SAUNDERS
Ms. Orshefsky, you're
saying it's C-4 and you're saying it's A-27
MR. CUYLER: No, she's not talking -- you're
talking about the 1.1 --
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: That's a different glitch,
David?
MR. WEEKS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGhT.' Okay.
MR. WEEKS~ Yeah, the subject property is still
zoned C-~, in total, all 9.6 acres.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGhT.. Then David, the RSF-3 that has
been improperly zoned, does that belong to her client?
MR. WEEKS.. No.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT.. That's a separate owner and
then there's a separate owner for the A-2 property that's
below that or is this --
MR. WEEKS.' The A-2 and the RSF-3 is all one parcel
and it's all owned by the same person.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: And, it's all zoned A-2 today?
MR.. CUYLER~ This was the parcel that Lucia
Dougherty -- Lucia works --
MS. ORSHEFSKY: Lucia's my partner.
MR. CUYLER~ -- works and Debbie. Remember Lucia
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
26
Dougherty came in and talked to all the commissioners
about a scribner's error and there was a problem and they
felt that the scribner's error was not a scribner's error
but in fact it had not been rezoned properly.
We went.through some discussions back and forth and
we basically said, we will consider your C-4 property as
still C-4, that will come back and we will go back and in
fact fezone the A -- we'll do what -- we'll reverse what
we did before Just to clean the record up. But, this is
the parcel that she discussed.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS.. Right now, tonight, it's
C-4.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: What is the zoning at the
present moment of RSF-3?
MR. CUYLER~ David, is that correct or not?
MR. WEEKS.' Yeah, that's correct.
MR. CUYLER: Okay. The CL4 is C-4. That's --
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: And, it's been C-4. It hasn't
been changed?
MR. CUYLER-. That' s correct. That' s what the
subject o~ tonight' s --
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: The RSF-3 was the one that was
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
27
changed ~.ncorrectly and it should have been A-2 and it is
presently -- that's the request tonight to return it back
to A-2.
MR. WEEKS= That is correct. The ordinance that
was adopted on January 7th, rezoned the property from a
A-2 to R~F-3, tonight, aside from this property, tonight
we're asking that that be rezoned back.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE= I assume that what happened, I
think I understand the scenario, I assume that what
happened was because an error in the legal description we
rezoned the wrong piece of property.
MR. CUYLER: It was purported to be rezoned.
COmmISSIONER VOLPE= Right, it was purported to
rezoned and property we intended to fezone was her
property, her client's property.
MR. WEEKS= That is correct.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS= Would it be accurate to say
that, as a matter of law, you can not rezone the wrong
piece of property. I mean, you can't make a mistake like
that. It"s not effective.
MR. CUYLER: That's what we have agreed with them
that we would not take that argument, we would bring it
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
28
back and let the Board consider it a9ain.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT.. Commissioner Shanahan.
COF~4ISSIONER SHANAHAN: Madam Chairman, my position
is that there is adequate enough confusion here that I
would support either the Petitioner -- Petitioner's
choice going back through the CCPC with the proper
approach, if that's the proper approach, and/or I would
not be reluctant to hear it tonight.
MS. ORSHEFSKY'. Whatever the pleasure of the Board.
COflMISSIONER HASSE:
legality of that, really.
CO~[MISSIONER SHANAHAN'.
it on the. floor.
CO~.MISSIONER SAUNDERS ~
in hearing it tonight either.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGhT:
hearing it tonight either.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE .'
issue, I understand the confusion, it
I'm just curious of the
That's why I wanted to put
I don't have any reluctance
I don't have problem with
The reason why I raised the
seems to be, that's
come up, doesnt really relate to any of the merits of
' · ' ' to
what we ~.e discussion, we re trying identify what
piece of property got rezoned. The fact of the matter is
OFFICI~ COURT RE~RTERS, COLLIER COUNt, NAPLES, FL 33962
Zoning Re-Evaluation Ordinance, a separate application, /
so you re here this evening to make an argument as to /
what the proper zoning should be on your particular
parcel of land.
COMHISSIONER VOLPE You'=e here, afte: having met
with our Staff, after having had two meetings before our
CCPC, our adviso~ body, based upon a r~uest, as Ive
understood it, as it s developed so far this evening,
MS. O~HEFSKY~ Let me clarify that.
MR. VOLPEr Okay, that's good.
.
MS. ORSHEFSKY. ~ad the notice situation worked,
and I have to refer back to that, worked out properly,
this property -- back in January, when you were doing the
ZRO actions on commercial properties that were supposed
to, under the Growth Management Plan, go to residential,
then you would have considered this for a residential
zoning at that time.
Because that situation got screwed up, we have now
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
3O
taken that opportunity and moved it to these proceedings
which is why we're the only commercial piece in the bunch
that you're seeing tonight.
i.~ The concept of -- so we didn't ask -- I would
'~}21.11~.~.i prefer not to have it rezoned at all. We didn't ask to
i~..~~ be part of the process but we are part of the process
~?'.'~:'.'i because we are a commercial parcel subject to ZRO.
Now, with that said, as we've reviewed the
~i~!11!iiii~ijl surrounding at,a, the activity, the road network,
!:-' infrastructure, et cetera, it's been our conclusion that
~/~'~'~ this site should stay as a commercial parcel and we'd
t k t
e o as you o consider that this evening.
~?~' COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: My recollection, in some
~?~.'~.~ discussions with Lucia Dough erty was that I don't think
~. :.,..
?~.;~?:~ that there was ~rceptton on the part of the Petitioner
~?~:~:-:': ~ at that time that commercial zoning was even an option
~":" ~ because o~ the process we're going through right now
~ which is a residential rezoning process and that may be
~~~~'~:' ~rt of the reason why there wasn't a r~uest earlier
~(~j~?" because there wasn't-- the belief that that was even an
:~~~.: Th~ county attorney has indicated and Mr. weeks has
·.~:~..
.,~'.:.? .
31
indicated also that that is an option. I don't have any
particular problem in considering that option tonight but
I certainly can understand why the Petitioner perhaps has
not requested it prior to tonight.
MR. CUYLER~ I guess, if you're using the term
option, you're correct. It's wholly an option under the
criteria that David set out.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: But It would also be the
petitioner's option of having it reheard again by our --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE = CCPC.
MR. CUYLER= It would or the Board could direct
that. We get into a little bit of unusual circumstance
because this is part of a batch fezone. We' re having two
night hearings. Normally, if you fezone one parcel
property you don't have to go to two night hearings and
they're -- you know, we're basically doing it as a big
i~f7:7' CD group. We'd have to extract that and --
~:~:i': COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS. If we extract this one then
~:~..':~.'. we could -- I assume what you're saying is if we extract
Iii:~i~.,i~i': this one, then we could do it at a regular board meeting.
do 't to h ve two night h arings.
'~~~~. M~. CUY~E~ ~ell, it's a guestion of whether
32
you're following the ordinance, if you do that, but I
assume, if the Petitioner waives on the record any
complaint about that I don't think any third party can
challenge that but -- unless they could establish
standing in some other manner. I guess at this point
it's up to the Board to decide how you want to handle it.
I think as far as the Planning Commission you can
take it as -- they had asked for RMF-16 at the hearing
and the Planning Commission gave them are RMF-12 at a cap
of 9. So, I assume they were not looking for any
intensity as far as C-4. I think you reasonably can
assume that that would have been the recommendation of
the denial.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's my point, Mr. Cuyler.
It seems to me that somehow there's been a waiver of
that. I mean, that's the whole thing. We're at the
point here at the first public hearing after all of this
processing for them to raise that issue, excuse this, but
that happens to be my feeling, that there's been some
kind of -- I'm not sure weather it's compatible or not
but we're at this point in the process, that's the whole
thing.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
33
Th~y had asked for RSF- 16 and now they're saying
we want C-4. We go through what analysis has been done.
No one's found that -- no arguments been presented other
than what we' re going to hear this evening at the first
public hearing. I don't know. It seems to me it's out
of order.
MR. CUYLER~ Well, that's something you need to
decide. I can't legally tell you that you --
CO~IMISSIONER VOLPE= That's the way I feel about
the procedural process that -- it seems to me that, like
Ms. Orsh~ifsky has said, she's sort of accepted that this
is residential rezoning. It would have been a part of
process if it had been properly noticed. They didn't get
into the process because of an error in the legal
description. Here we are. It's commercial, being
considered for a fezone to residential. They went before
the CCPC on two separate occasions and said what we want
is RSF-16, Staff says 3, CCPC says, no, it should be 12
with a cap of 9 based upon gross densities, you have
densities and now we stand up this evening for the first
time and say think it ought to be the C-4.
I have a problem with that process. If you want to
OFFICIAL COUI~T REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
34
take it back before the CCPC and make that pitch to them,
I dontt have a problem with that. But, I, for one,
hearing that request de novo under all the circumstances,
it seems to me to be out of order. Thatts my personal
feeling.
CO!~MISSIONER HASSE~ It's out of order to put it
back to CCPC?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE= No. I~d agreeable to that. I
would at least like the input of our advisory committee
on that. If she wants the option of making that
agreement, making that presentation to our advisory
board, I don~t have a problem with sending her back to
the CCPC ~nd letting her do that.
COMMISSIONER HASSE~ That seems about the logical
thing to do now in any sense of the word because it don't
seem that we're going to hear it accordingly, as you want
C-4.
MS. ORSHEFSKY~ If the pleasure of this Board is
for us to go back to the CCPC then we would certainly do
that.
COI{MISSIONER VOLPE= Well, I think, Ms. Orshefsky,
it may ~hoove you -- I raised an issue of waiver. But,
OFFICIAL C00RT REPORTERSt COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
35
what we've got is, we've got a Staff recommendation based
upon certain findings that our Staff has made, we've got
recommenc~tions from the CCPC based upon presentations
that were made before them, certain findings that were
made, presumably by our CCPC. I would think the
opportunity of succeeding is improved considerably if you
could go back and you could make a presentation before
the CCPC and it comes to us with a recommendation from
our CCPC that it should be left at C-4.
COMMISSIONER SBANAHAN:
which is a possibility.
COMMISSIONER HASSEt
Or some other compromise
Now, they originally talked
about the RSF-12, didn't they? And then they talked
about 9?
MS. ORSHEFSKY~ Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER HASSEt So, you're ahead of the game
by going back to them I would think. I'm just telling
you.
MS. ORSHEFSKY~
us to do that and then to bring it back to you after
their consideration, we'd do that.
COmmISSIONER VOLPE: I'd like to make a motion --
If this Board would like to direct
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
36
COMMISSIONER HASSEt I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER VOLPEt -- that we grant this
Petitioner to go back before the CCPC with this
application.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Before we vote on the
motion, Ms. Orshefsky, do you have any particular problem
in having this considered as a regular zoning matter at a
regular scheduled Board meeting or would you insist on
two night hearings?
MS. ORSHEFSKY= No, I would have no problem with
taking it to one meeting thereby minimizing further
procedural difficulties that this property seems to be
creating.
MR. CUYLER= I just need to make sure that if
there's any additional advertising requirements or
anything that the Petitioner is responsible for that.
MS. ORSHEFSKY~ We would cover the costs, yes.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: And, then when we get our next
map we'll see what everything is zoned for properly.
COMI{ISSIONER VOLPE: That's fine. Whether it's
handled as a separate rezoning and the Petitioner doesn't
have any objection to that one hearing before the CCPC.
OFFICIAL COUFT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
37
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Okay. I have a motion and a
second for this item to go back to the CCPC and bring it
back to us in one daytime regular BCC meeting.
All in favor signify by saying "Aye".
(Chorus of "Ayes.")
CHAIRMAN GOO£)NIGBT: Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
Thank you.
MS. ORSHEFSKY~
Motion carried unanimously.
See you again.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Not too soon.
MR. WEEKS: Madam Chairman, the next property is
two maps further, number 8517-S. The specific parcel
here is the --
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Hold on 'till I find it.
MR. WEEKS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: 8517-S.
MR. WEEKS= Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: You got it.
MR. WEEKS: This is the island portion of the
Conklin Point Subdivision. This is a property that
currently has it's own RT, Residential Tourist. It
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
38
currently has a site development plan approved and an
exemption approved based upon that site develoI~nent plan
which will require development to begin by January 10th
of 1992 and to continue in good faith without
interruption through completion of the project.
The property owner, as will be explained by the
agent, would like to have the property instead up for
rezoning tonight so it can be discussed and they don't
want to be bound, I don't believe, by time lines
established in the ZRO nor do they wish to have to
develop in accordance with the approved site plan.
The. surrounding zoning, as indicated on your zoning
map, there's C-4 to the north which contains a marina, a
large marina structure. There's some undeveloped RMF-6
property to the, also to the north. There's RSF-4 single
family zoning that's undeveloped to the northeast.
Immediately to the east of this property is the mainland
portion of Conklin Point, which is owned by the county,
this is the proposed park site, which is also included in
tonight's rezonfng.
COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Is that -- that isn't the
commercial tract. Where is that located, the county
39
property?
MR. WEEKSt
right on the west side.
and the property in blue.
COMMISSIONER HASSE=
The county is parcel number one, it's
It's in between Vanderbilt Drive
Oh, yeah, I got it.
MR. WEEKS: Further east, across Vanderbilt Drive
is the Wiggins Bay PUD at a density of 4.8 units per
acre. It allows multi-family development and there is a
commercial tract in the corner, developed RT to the south
and waterway on three sides of the property.
Staff's recommendation is to fezone the property to
the RMF-6 zoning district based upon compatibility, to
allow uses and a density that will be compatible with the
surrounding properties. The Planning Commission's
recommendation, again the formal recommendation to you,
is to fezone the property -- excuse me, leave the
property RT, cap the density at 9 units per acre and
enter into a development agreement between the county and
the Petitioner to prohibit the hotel and time-share uses,
that is ensure that only multi-family development will
occur on the property.
I need to point out to you that as it currently
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
4O
reads, o= development ag£eement ordinance would not allow
this to ¢.ccur. It o~ly is applicable to the Adequate
Public Facilities Ordinance and the Zoning Re-Evaluation
Ordinance, the development agreements. However, there
are proposals underway now and they will be coming to you
fairly soon, to amend the development agreement ordinance
to widen its -- or broaden its scope.
Again, Planning Commission's recommendation is
subject to that development agreement ordinance being
amended to enter into a development agreement with the
applicant:.
CO~tMISSIONER VOLPE.- Mr. Weeks what was the
property to the south outlined in blue, that's subject to
the -- art application for a zoning re-evaluation.
MR. WEEKS: That's correct, RMF-12 and also C-1 and
there's a Compatibility Exception Application pending.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: There's been no action taken
on that yet, is that correct?
MR. WEEKS: That's correct. The distance is about
th::ee hundred feet to the closest point of that property
to the south.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What does RO Zoning allow?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
41
MR. WEEKS~ That's the recreation open space
dist£ict and the principal permitted uses are extremely
limited such as a park -- excuse me, not a park but an
open space reserve, horse trail, extremely passive. The
provisional uses in the RO district or what allow the
more intense uses like a public park, marina, racetrack,
zoos, a whole variety of things.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE= So, if this property were
rezoned to RO, consistent with the property that is owned
by the county, which is RO --
MR. WEEKS= Proposed to be rezoned RO tonight.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE= -- then the property would be
subject to an application for a provisional use.
MR. WEEKS~ That's correct.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE=
as marinas?
MR,, WEEKS=
COMMISSIONER VOLPE=
COMMISSIONER HASSE=
this area?
Which would allow such things
That's correct.
Okay.
There are marinas located in
MR. WEEKS= Yes, sir. Immediately to the north,
the property that's zoned C-4 --
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
42
COMMISSIONER HASSE: No, you missed my point.
Are there any marinas on this property or any docks
or are they --
MR. WEEKS: There are docks completely around the
subject property.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: I think I recall that.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: There's some 180 docks --
slips at this point in time?
MR. WEEKS: I believe so and I'm sure Mr. Reynolds
can speak to that further.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Allen.
MR. REYNOLDS= Thank you. Good evening, Madam
Chairman and commissioners. My name is Allen Reynolds.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Just a second. I want you to
only .get five minutes, Allen.
MR. REYNOLDS: Okay. I'll watch the lights.
My name is Allen Reynolds with the firm Wilson,
Miller, Barton & Peek and I'm the project planner. Also
here 'this evening, to answer any questions you might
have, are Lou Hegsted, Susan Watts and Steven Bartan from
Westinghouse Communities and Don Pickworth and Sam Hall
who are the legal counsel on the project.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
43
As Dave has explained, this piece of property is a
little, and a bit of a unique situation, and we have
essen~ial requested to be here tonight to have you
consi.]er recommending the retention of the present zoning
on the.· property which is the RT Zoning subject to a
downward adjustment in the density that will allow us to
proce4.~d with a provisional use for a yacht club facility
as well as 136 dwelling units.
As it stands today, the property with it's current
zonint. j, would allow a maximum of 16 units per acre.
ThereIs an approved site development plan on the property
and an exemption to this proceeding that allows us to
construct 227 dwelling units on the property along with
some associated facilities and there are 191 existing
boat ~lips on the property as well that were built some
years ago.
The STP that exists on the property right now is
tied J.nto a commencement construction time period of
January of next y~ar. So, if we were to proceed with
that option we would be basically building the presently
approved site plan.
What we are proposing is to make some adjustments
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
44
that, taken individually, are each consistent with your
comprehensive plan and taken together we think presents a
vast improvement to the type of project that you're going
to get were we to proceed under the current exemption.
To begin with we are proposing under this scenario
to reduce the density by some 40 percent, from 227 to 136
dwelling units. So, that is a reduction of 90 units.
That particular reduction is tied into your comprehensive
plan under Policy 5.1 which allows adjustments downward
in density if you are going to modify an approved site
development plan which we presently have.
The yacht club and the associated facilities that
we are proposing will require a provisional use approval
which would come back to this Board as subsequent step
before we would be allowed to proceed.
The yacht club use is a use that is consistent with
your Growth Management Plan and in fact for this kind of
property in this location is encouraged as the
appropriate kind of use and I would read to you, just
briefly from your comprehensive plan, where it talks
about water dependent and water related uses being
allowed in the urban area.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
45
The types of sites that are prioritized for those
kinds of uses, which the yacht club and the boat slips
are, the four highest priorities are presently developed
sites, sites where water dependent and water related uses
have been previously established, i.e., the boat slips,
sites where shoreline improvements are in place. Once
again, the shoreline improvements are completely in place
on this particular property, and sites where damaged,
dividable and actual functioning in wetlands are
minimized and in this particular case this site has been
virtually stripped of all if its native vegetation and
the proposal would be consistent entirely.
So, the uses that we are proposing, I would stress,
are both consistent with the comprehensive plan. The
benefit that we see to ourselves --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Reynolds, just so I
understand, excuse me for interrupting, I accept what
you've said, I agree with what you've said, that the uses
that you are proposing are consistent with the Growth
Management Plan. Is the RT zoning consistent with the
Growth Management Plan. I understand what you're saying
that the provisional uses within the RTR is consistent
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
46
but is the RT, I mean is your position the RT is
consistent with the Growth Management Plan,
MR. REYNOLDS: The RT zoning, the land uses that
are allowed with R are consistent with the plan. The
problem with the RT, as would need to be addressed under
this petition, is the density on the property because the
RT district allows a maximum density of up to 16 units
per acre.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So, with a reduction or
putting a cap on the density within an RT zoning district
at 9 units an acre in your opinion make that zoning
classifi~tion consistent with our Growth Management
Plan?
~. RE, OLDS= Yes, sir. It does it in two ways as
I see it. The first way it does it is under policy 5.1,
which allows -- if we were to exercise our present STP,
15 units ~r acre is consistent because we have an
exemption. If we exercise Policy 5.1 and modify that
site plan and reduce it by 40 ~rcent, that is also
consistent ~cause the policy allows that to happen.
But, the third venue, which is the one that really
yOU should probably consider the strongest tonight is
OFF~C~ COURT RE~RTERS, COLL~E~ COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
47
compatibility and we believe that if you look at this
piece of property and you look at the surrounding land
uses that abut us and the characteristic of the
develo~ent that has already taken place we think that
there is a very strong argument that in fact we have a
compatible zoning density at 9 units per acre on this
proper ty.
So, really, under each of those analyses we think
that there's a consistent with the comprehensive plan.
We think that this is a win, win situation for both
the county and the Petitioner. The advantage to the
Petitioner is that we, if you would concur with your
Planning Commission and recommend the RT with a 9 unit
per acre cap, what that does is gives us the assurance
that the zoning we have is acceptable and as we proceed
through the provisional use process with the yacht club
it would relieve us from the commencement of
construction tim$ date in January.
We think that's a benefit not only to us but it's a
benefit to the county because that allows us to go back
and to modify that site plan and not be under an
artificial constraint of having to commence construction.
,,
COURT RE~RTERS, COLLIER COUNt, NAPLES, FL 33962
48
So, frankly, we think we can do a better job in
planning this property and working with the county in
cooperation as you all proceed with your plans for the
boat ramp, than we could if we had to continue on with
the exemption.
The benefits to the county are several. The first
we think is Just the reduction in density is a positive
benefit, say, 40 percent reduction as I mentioned.
Am I cut off or should I proceed?
CSAIRMAN GOODNIGRT= You can finish.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Finish, but make it quick.
MR. RE~OLDS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: That' s enough.
Mr. Reynolds. If I might ask this. You've
canceled it for me in any case. By being granted a
marina there or -- what did you call it7
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Yacht club.
MR. REYNOLDS= Yes, yacht club.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: A yacht club is better than a
marina anyway. You would put 137 units on this property?
MR. REYNOLDS= 136, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HASSE= 136, I'm sorry. What assurety
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
49
do we have that you won't come up with 227 if we grant
it. I mean, evidently, there's some looseness in this.
MR. REYNOLDS= Well, I think the looseness is that
the mechanism that is, in discussion with the Staff,
would be used to tie down the density to 136 units is a
development agreement that we would enter into with the
county. We are prepared to do that. I think your Staff
is prepared to work with us in doing that. The glitch
right now is that your present development agreement
ordinance does not have a provision for development
agreements pursuant to the zoning re-evaluation process.
Your Staff is presently, I believe, in the process of
modifying that ordinance to allow that to take place.
So, the assurance that you would have would be a
development agreement that would tie, specifically, the
density.
COMMISSIONER HASSE= The two together.
MR. REYNOLDS~ They would tie the two together,
that's correct.
COMMISSIONER VOLPEt Mr. Reynolds, have you looked
at the parcel number ene, which is the county own parcel,
there's an'.application to fezone that parcel to RO. Have
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
50
you looked at what the potential uses of the parcel that
we're discussing now would be if it were rezoned to RO.
Would you be able to allow that to development out
residentially at a certain density?
MR. REYNOLDS~ No, it would not allow the
residential use under the RO?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE~
else but this --
MR. REYNOLDS~
But it would permit everything
It would be probably permit the club
under probably some interpretations and a provisional use
but it would not permit the residential use?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: One of the -- we've discussed
this particular parcel on a number of different
occasions. One of the questions that had come up in the
past was building heights and I know that you've got your
SMP and all that and you're subject to begin construction
within certain period of time. What would be the
building height that you would be limited to under the RT
zone? What you would be thinking in terms of building
heights?
MR. REYNOLDS: The RT zoning district allows a
maximum building height of 100 feet?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
51
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. So, are you still
proposing that you would want the ability to put these
residential units in a 100 foot building?
MR. REYNOLDS~ Well, that would be the maximum
under the zoning. I think the design of the buildings
themselves, we're frankly not at the point where we've
designed buildings, but logic would tell me that in the
reduction of the number of units we would probably not be
building up to maximum height under the district.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I just raised the issue of
height because that was an issue that was hotly debated
and I do recall the presentations that were made. So, I
would think as part of the discussions -- you know, I
understand where we're talking about compatibility that
maybe we ought to have some of this discussion directed
toward building heights and maybe maximum building
heights.
MR. REYNOLDS: That would be fine. What I would
suggest as a possibility is the final Site Development
Plan that was approved on this property I think the
buildings were capped at a height less than 100 feet, if
I recall. They might have been anywhere from four to
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
52
seven stories or something like that. I think I could
probably safely commit that we would live by the same
heights that were allowed under the STP that we presently
have. But, I'd have to look at that --
COMMISSIONER HASSE: You don't know what that is.
MR. REYNOLDS= I would have to come back probably
at the second hearing and give you some more specifics on
that.
COMMISSIONER HASSE{
COMMISSIONER VOLPE=
Good idea.
Well, part of that, Mr.
Reynolds, that I think for me just raises an issue and
that is, that I think that that was one of the issues
that was debated and because of the history of this
particular piece of property the Board had very little
flexibility with respect to the building height. So,
there were, I think, some residents within the area who
were about building heights.
So, what I'm suggesting maybe we can talk about a
different building height than up to the 100 feet. Again
I'm not sure, you say you have a plan, I'm not sure in
terms of compatibility, I'm not sure whether you had in
mind your conception plan was three stories or four
OFFICIAL [~OURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
53
stories. I just don't know.
MR. REYNOLDS: To be very candid with you, the
effort right now has been in looking at the design of the
yacht club because that's our first phase and the
residential is something that's probably going to be
designed a little bit down the road. But, what we can do
is look at what the present STP allows, look at what the
surrounding properties presently have in terms of height
and come back to you with some suggestion, I guess, of a
height that would work with us. If not, what the
district allows as a maximum.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, with the maximum
coverage 136 units, you would be able to stretch the
point a little bit on height, a considerable bit, I
should say. And, seeing you have how many slips around,
they go around this piece of property?
MR. REYNOLDS'. Yeah. The existing boat slips
encircle virtually the entire property. It's already
been bulk headed and they go all the way around.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
MR. REYNOLDS= Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HASSE=
Yes, I've looked at it.
Number one piece of property
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
54
is county property, correct?
MR. REYNOLDS~ Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: What impact that we or are
you going to have or are we going to have on this piece
of property with the property that we own, access wise
and things like that, road, turn offs and things like
that?
MR. REYNOLDS~ Well, the present designs that I
have seen of your proposed boat ramp facility, utilize a
common entrance to this piece of property. It's
basically the existing entrance. So, what kind of impact
I think is more along the lines of a cooperative effort
between our applicant and the county in arriving at a
common design that works well for both properties.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: I'm talking about turn lanes
and things like that you people would cooperate in paying
for.
MR. REYNOLDSz I think, if I am not mistaken, the
turn lane may already be in, the right turn --
COMMISSIONER HASSE: It's in already?
MR. REYNOLDS~ -- lane to the property is already
built?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
55
COMMISSIONER HASSE.. That's too bad. I'd like to
have had you pay for it.
MR. REYNOLDS~ Well, I'm sorry. I think its
already there. There are some things, frankly, on both
sides that are going to require cooperation. I think the
county needs some cooperation from us with respect to
some of the existing easements, with respect to some of
the setbacks that may exist between your facility and
ours and conversely we want to cooperate with the county
because that's our front door into the project as well.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Allen, aren't some of those
discussions ongoing and haven't some of those discussions
been already held as to what potentially could happen
here if in fact the approvals are granted?
MR. REYNOLDS: Yes, it is. It's a subject that I
think at this point just needs to be reduced to the
development agreement, again, which is going to be the
other part of this that ties up those issues.
COMMISSIONER SHANA~AN~ Don has probably got some
burning information there in so far as the heights are
concerned because he was totally involved.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: I agree with that. He gets
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
56
paid by the word too.
MR. PICKWORTHz Then I won't get much because I
won't have much to say except -- you're right, I've been
through the height issue on this for more years than I
want to talk about.
The height problems that came up before were based
upon a 200 foot height --
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Don, give your name.
MR. PICKWORTH: I'm sorry. For the record, Don
Pickworth, representing Conklin Point Development
Corporation.
The height issue arose over a 200 foot height. In
fact, the individuals who commented on the project being
too high essentially their position was the zoning
ordinance says 100 feet and that's what it should be.
So, basically what we're proposing is we're going to stay
at that which, like I said, the people who commented on
it, that's what they wanted.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: I just heard somebody say
there, by the name of Mr. Reynolds, that it would
probably be lower than 100 feet.
MR. PICKWORTH~ I think the Site Development Plan
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
57
is probably a little lower than 100 feet and as he
suggested it'd probably be best to deal with that in the
site development stage because obviously what you want to
try to do is get as much open space type of thing. So, I
think we can stay within 100 feet and come up with a nice
design. You don't want to spread it out too much and get
a wall of condos either. You've got to hit a balance
between them so that you get something that's looks
good --
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN.. I think we' re particularly
interested in satisfying the previous agreement at max of
100 feet, at least, I am.
MR. PICKWORTR~ The previous agreement max'd it out
at 100 feet. They were at 100 feet, in fact, some of
them were a little lower than 100.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN.' I remember that. I'd
certainly like to see this development move along. It's
been out there a long, long, long, long time.
COMMISSIONER HASSE.. It's a derelict now as far as
I'm concerned. It's about time you did something with
it.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Particularly, we' re kind of
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
58
talking about what your potential plans are for the site.
We~ve got so~e general parameters that has been
recommended to us by the CCPC in terms of the RT zoning
and the cap and then subject to a develo~ent agreement
prohibiting certain types of uses but it doesn't say
anything about a yacht club or any of the other uses that
we're talking about.
I'm just wondering if all of this is subject to a
development agreement at a later point in time which is
going to require an amendment to our existing ordinances
to allow a development agreement for this particular
piece of a property. Just procedurally, if, for whatever
reasons, this particular Petitioner, this particular
owner, decides between the time of the action of the
Board on this particular parcel of land and the actual
signing of the development agreement what would be the
zoning of the property? Would it continue to be RT,
subject to the 9 cap or does it go back to SMP. What I'd
like -- I think we want a level of certainty, just as you
always are asking us that you'd like some certainty.
We'd like a level of certainty that this parcel is going
to finally be developed out in a certain form in that
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
59
we're going to see a yacht club, we're going to see some
residences, it's going to be something that's going to be
compatible with the surrounding area as well as our boat
ramp site.
MR. PICKWORTH: ~ere's -- let me tell how we will
propose a new development agreement. We have a draft
development agreement that's still being discussed
internally but, obviously, much of it is done and
essentially, the proposal will be this, that what I would
envision happening is the final zoning action on this
parcel will take place simultaneously with the execution
of the development agreement. So, what we, have -- if it
happens that way, we have RT with a development agreement
that absolutely limits what can be done.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And, if the rezone doesn't
take place, what will it be?
MR. PICKWORTH~ I guess we're back to where we are
now. We have RT zoning and we have an exemption.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: You got 227 units and--
MR. PICKWORTH~ Yeah. We have an improved site
development plan for 227 units.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And, you have to commence
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
construction before January 10th of 1992. I
doesn't all happen before then you've lost your
You've lost the exemption that you had,
right, because you .e~e to commence construction.
MR. ~IC~RTH, ~at we're proposing, as I sta
to express is that essentially, there's three elements
,,., have to go together. You've got a rezoning act i
co.~led wi,h a develo~ent agreement and then a
separate issue a provisional use because the RT
would .110. a yacht club as a provisional
use. ~at provisional use appli~tion, in fact, ha
filed and is being reviewed right n~ by the county
6O
started
rezoning action
and then as a
has been
Staff
and will probably, I would assume in the normal course of
how these things work, come before you in late November
or early December would be my guess about the timeframe
is when that would be there.
So, we would propose a development agreement which
would become effective upon the granting of the
provisional use. In other words, once the county grants
the provisional use and obviously you cannot commit to a
legislative act like that but all it says is, once the
county grants the provisional use and if it grants the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
61
provisional use at that point the development agreement
goes into affect, we loose our exemption righ'ts to do the
227 units and the property developable solely and only in
accordance with what the development agreement says.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: First off, I'm just trying
to -- we may end up -- we're shortening the time period.
You've got to commence construction by a certain date, is
that correct?
MR. P ICKWORT~{ ~
COMMISSIONER VOLPE
what the date was.
MR. P ICKWORTH
Yes, sir.
What's the date? I forgot
January 10th.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE.' Of 19927
MR. PICKWORTH.. January 10, '92.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So, all of this has to happen
before January 10th of 19927
MR. PICKWORTH: Yes, sir, probably. There may be,
and Mr. Cuyler and I can discuss the possibility of how
that can be extended somehow. Yeah, we think it ought to
happen before January 10 and we think it's feasible. I
mean, the normal processing time of things it should
happen before January 10th.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
: 62
COMMISSIONER SHANAHANs If you remember an
intricate part of that previous site development plan was
the January 10th, 1992 start up. That was an intrical
part of the whole thing.
MR. PICKWORTH.. Correct.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN.' All I'm saying is --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE.. What I don't want to see --
excuse me for interr -- and I understand the good faith
with which you've come before the Board. I don't want to
get us to the point where January 10th, all these things
have not fallen into place. I'm not sure what the zoning
is on the piece of property and we hear you saying, we've
got vested rights under this agreement, we've got our
SMP. You took certain actions which we relied upon and
we're entitled to another six months, you know.
MR. PICKWORTHs The way I would understand it would
be that either all of this happens or we simply have to
build under our current exemption because that's the only
thing that would be in place. If we didn't start
construction then we'd loose our exemption and then we'd
be back in the, you know, next cycle of rezoning because
then we wouldn't have our exemption anymore. But, as I
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
63
say, I'm told by the attorney's office and the planning
department that the amendment to the develolz~ent
agreement ordinance and I haven't seen the draft but I
understand that there is a provision in there which would
allow development agreements for this purpose is they
intend to be able to advertise this for a hearing before
the Board on October 8th. Is that correct?
MR. CUYLER: There could be. It's supposed to be
finalized by the middle of next week. It needs to get
advertised if we're going to meet our time schedules as
well as the petitioner. It just happens to have the same
type of time schedule.
We were looking at the Adequate Public Facilities
Ordinance to find out if the Board wanted the comfort of
a development agreement in order to ensure some of these
development standards. If it could fit in under that,
we're still looking at that. I'll talk to Mr. Pickworth
about that. If we can do it under that ordinance
depending on what adequate public facilities are there,
are offered, are needed by the county, whatever it may
be. We -- our preference is to do that. If it doesn't
look like it's going to fit under that, then yes, we'll
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
64
probably add it as another category for the Development
Agreement Ordinance.
MR. PICKWORTh.. That would be my preferred way
would be to simply proceed under the Adequate Public
Facilities and then we could get right down to that
development agreement right now and not wait for this
amendment but, if we have to do it then we'll do that.
That's the second alternative.
MR. CUYLER.' I mean, we were talking as recently as
today about this whole situation.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: There's no possibility as a
part of this discussion to consider this parcel as we
considered some of those commercial parc. els along Golden
Gate Parkway that the fezone would be subject to a PUD.
I mean, I think everybody would like a PUD in this
particular parcel of property. I mean, I think that
makes good sense.
MR. PICKWORTH~ The problem at this point, Mr.
Volpe, is time. In fact, when we initially started
discussing this we suggested a PUD. The Staff felt more
comfortable in simply flowing this one in with a normal
process rather than have some separate process out here.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
65
So, we're just too far down the road to do that now.
think probably for consistency with the other things
they're dging, I think they felt that this is better.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Is there any other questions?
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ What do we need; a straw
vote from the Board?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: We need a straw vote. We'll
start with Commissioner Shanahan.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: I'm in favor of the CCPC
recommendation and the development agreements.
COMMISSIONER HASSE~ I am too.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I am too. Commissioner Volpe.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE= Yeah, I am as well, with some
additional discussion taking place about the building
heights and how that may -- just firming that up, whether
it's at 100 feet, whatever that -- the proposal is I'd
like to at least have that put forth in these develola~ent
standards.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGRT=
Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: At this point, I have no
objection to the CCPC recommendations.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: All right.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
66
Next item, David.
MR. WEEKS.. Four more maps over, it will be map
number 0513-S, the Lake Avalon PUD.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN'. 0501-S?
MR. WEEKS~ 0513-S. Lake Avalon PUD. As you can
see, a portion of the PUD is colored in blue, that's the
commercial component of the PUD, which allows uses
comparable to the C-3 zoning district. There's been an
exemption approved for that property based upon an
improved site development plan and in fact, development
is currently underway on that site.
The proposed rezoning will not affect the
commercial component. The residential portion of the PUD
is what we're proposing to change. The current density
is about 3.8 units per acre, we're proposing to reduce
that to 3.0 units per acre.
The surrounding zonings I identified on the map and
as I noted at the outset for these PUD's, Staff is
recommending that we not require the interconnection,
that it is not appropriate. In this case we have a PUD
that permits multi-family uses and it's primarily
surrounded by single-family development there along the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
67
south as well as a significant portion to the north.
The recommendation of Staff is to reduce the PUD
to three units per acre. The CCPC endorsed that. As I
noted also at the outset some of those changes to the PUD
such as the statement of compliance and so forth.
Additionally, there are a couple of other
amendments and you may wish to refer to the PUD document
that is in your packet. Again, it's about the last hand
full of pages prior to your map set, bold print.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Where do you got these
numbered.
MR. WEEKS~ It's the last of the eight and a half
by eleven sized papers.
Some of the changes proposed, number one is --
there's a statement in there it's within the PUD, I
believe it's on the fourth page, that regarding the
interim sewage treatment plan that requires that there be
no construction started on that sewage treatment plant
for 18 months. So, that time period long since past.
So, that language is being deleted as Staff's
recommendations.
There are three changes proposed by the applicant
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
68
that has previously been discussed from the outset and it
has to do with setbacks. The PUD currently requires a 30
foot setback from the streets. It's proposed by the
applicants to change that to 25 feet for public
right-of-ways and then for private streets to change that
to a 20 foot setback from the back of curb. A change to
the minimum waterfront yard from 30 feet to 20 feet with
a change in the language from the top of the lake bank,
instead, to a control elevation.
We've discussed all of these changes with the
planning services section and project review services and
they have no objection to these amendments. We view them
as relatiw.~ly minor. The Planning Commission also had no
objection to these.
One additional proposal that came up is as
identified in the bold print to the PUD document I
referred to and that's where the applicant is proposed to
add affordable housing as a use to this PUD.
Staff's opposition is for a few reasons. Number
one, the purpose of these hearings is to fezone
properties to make them consistent with the plan. We've
viewed that from the outset as reducing densities and
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
69
intensities.
In this particular case what is being asked is to
add a use to the PUD for affordable housing and county
parks.
Secondly, it's kind of a philosophical or
procedural type question. Secondly, is the question of
by adding this use here, what type of review is occurring
for the appropriateness of this increased density. Now,
we're talking about from 3 units per acre to as high as,
as a maximum, 11 units per acre, utilizing the affordable
housing provision of the density rating system. There's
been no analysis for that high of a density, no analysis
for the traffic impact or compatibility with surrounding
properties, et cetera. That's another one of our
concerns. So, our recommendation is not to, and the
planning commission had endorsed this, not to add the
affordable housing or county park uses to this PUD. I'm
sure A1 would like to speak to that further.
COMMISSIONER HASSE= So, the maximum density is
what, three?
MR. WEEKS~ Three units per acre.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The same philosophy, though,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
70
Mr. Weeks, I was going to ask a question, even on the
setbacks, is that appropriate for us in the context of a
rezone having to do with intensity and density to talk
about changing setbacks. That seems to me to be a
subject that you'd come back through an amendment through
the PUD process and not as a part of this process. So,
I'm not in favor of making those changes to the PUD using
your reasoning.
MR. WEEKS~ Right.
That question was also raised at the Planning
Commission hearing.
the changes as minor.
strict --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
We didn't object because we viewed
But, you're right using the
We can't use it one way and
use it the other and say, well, we happen to agree with
this, we don't happen to agree with that so our
philosophy is -- it's not the purpose of this type of a
proceeding, is what you've told us, that's why we
shouldn't considac affordable housing. Let them come
back with an amen~;ent to the PUD. This is an old PUD
too, it's a 1983.
MR. WEEKS= Yes, early '80's.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
71
MS. STUDENTs Madam Chairman, if I may, Marjorie
Student, Assistant County Attorney, for the record.
I would Just like to add that I looked at the
affordable housing bonus density ordinance in preparation
for the meeting tonight and there are provisions in
Section 6.7 and 6.8 of that ordinance that require that
when the density or intensity is increased, pursuant to
the density rating system for affordable housing, that
even though it wasn't originally coupled with the PUD or
PUD amendment or cite specific fezone request, that the
procedures for rezoning still have to be followed. It
was my position at the Planning Commission meeting and it
still is my position that this is outside of the
procedure that we're here tonight to consider.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
Good, thank you.
Alan, is this yours?
MR. REYNOLDS: Good evening again, Allen Reynolds,
Wilson, Miller, Barton and Peek, representing this
property owner.
Let me just start out by saying as David mentioned
we had asked to become a part of this process again. We
volunteered into it. This piece of property has a
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
72
pending exemption based on a dedication to the county of
right-of-way that was used to realign the entrance of the
Lakewood Boulevard, you're probably with Ted's Sheds in
that area, and this particular property owner made a
dedication and filed for an exemption on that basis and
that has been pending.
Were that exemption to be approved, we would retain
the 469 units that are presently zoned on this piece of
property. We have asked to become a part of this
process, once again, from the standpoint of having it
evaluated in a timely way, and from the basis that we
were willing to accept the density of three units per
acre on the property in return for getting into this
process and basically getting the PUD brought into
conformance with the plan and not having to spend the
time go back and amend it, yet again, and take another
six to nine months to do that.
What we are doing with this request is we are
eliminating, again., 91 dwelling units from the PUD. The
balance of the PUD remains virtually unchanged but there
are some adjustments being made. I look at the
adjustments in terr~s of setbacks and the terminology that
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
73
we have asked for to be very similar to what your staff
is doing in terms of changing some of the other
provisions in these PUDs as they come through the
process.
Your Growth Management Plan does more than just
call for a re-evaluation of density. We're in a
re-evaluation process in total and keep in mind that we
have been brought into this process by the county for
re-evaluation.
The changes that we've proposed, as far as the
setbacks and control elevations, were changes that bring
this PUD into closest conformance with your new
development codes and the codes that you have today and
the present PUD. So, from the standpoint of bringing it
into consistency with the. plan, the way I would look at
those is those changes are very similar and it doesn't
seem to be logical when we're in a process to amend the
PUD to do that once and then imposed on the Petitioner to
have to come back yet another time to make adjustments
that everyone at least up to this point have agreed are
acceptable and I would reiterate that your Planning
Commission as well as your Staff and all the departments
OFFICIA~ COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
74
agreed with those modifications.
The one modification that we have asked for that is
not in agreement, as Dave mentions, is to add language
into the PUD in two regards.
The first is under Section A, where the permitted
uses talk about recreational lands, structures and
facilities. What we have asked is that the words
"including county parks" be added into the PUD.
The reason for that is in my mind the language that
is in there right now is unclear as to whether or not if
we chose to have a neighborhood park within this property
whether we could, in fact, dedicate that to the county as
a neighborhood park. Now, I think that's something that
is beneficial to the county in my sense. I don't know
why the Staff would object to it. I don't think it's
changing the use it's merely clarifying that if we in
fact opted to have part of this property used for park
purposes and the recreational uses are already allowed
that would include a county park. But, if you all choose
to not want to make that change that's fine with us. We
thought it was something that would seem to be
beneficial.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
75
The other change which is the language that
addresses affordable housing. I think it's important, at
least in my mind, to differentiate the use of affordable
housing from the density increase. What we are not
asking for today is any density increase. The way this
PUD would be approved by you all if you would recommend
it or agreed with the Planning Commission recommendation
is 378 dwelling units. That's all that's authorized by
this PUD even with the language I've added.
From my point of view, affordable housing is both a
use and it has an element under the affordable housing
density bonus that there are some incentives that can be
derived by entering into an agreement.
What we thought was appropriate is that we at least
identify that affordable housing is a potential use
within this PUD, recognizing that were we to go forward
with affordable housing we would have to come back to the
Staff, the Planning Commission, the Board of County
Commissioners, we would have to enter into an Affordable
Housing Agreement and that Affordable Housing Agreement
under the ordinance is subject to the same public hearing
process as a rezoning. It's very clearly spelled out in
COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
76
the Affordable Housing Ordinance.
Whether or not you request affordable housing under
the agreement you must be reviewed under the rezoning
public hearing process. The idea that this somehow lets
us off the hook from having due public notice of process
is erroneous. That's not the case. I think that
affordable housing is an important enough issue in this
county. We're having a difficult enough time finding
suitable locations. Frankly, I think that this is an
ideal location for affordable housing. And, were we be
able to integrate some affordable housing into the
project, I think that that's something, not only that
your comp plan encourages but y'all should encourage as
well.
Again, we're Just -- we're in this process, we're
making adjustments. We thought that we would suggest
that as an alternative. If you feel that that's an
inappropriate request so be it. We won't make that kind
of a change.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Mr. Reynolds, I would prefer
to leave it at the three units per acre now as you have
proposed. I'd like to make one change if I may. I get a
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
77
little bit upset when you talk minimum off street
parking. It's two spaces per dwelling unit. One and a
half shall be improved. You know, that's always been a
source of problems to this commission and to the
residents of the area because somehow or another it never
works out that the other one is improved and you' re
parking on lawns and grass and things such as that.
I wish to suggest to Staff that they look at that
very carefully and see that we have the paving put in
place. We've had nothing but complaints about that.
MR. WEEKS, Commission Hasse, if I might respond to
that. Staff's approach to these rezonings of the PUDs
has been, tempting as it may be, only to rezone -- do the
minimum necessary to bring PUD into compliance -- into
consistency with the Growth Management Plan. Under
today's standards, in talking to planning services, Staff
would not recommend approval of having a half space in
reserve.
However, again we're attempting to do the minimum
necessary to make the PUD consistent. There's that,
there's certainly other changes within the document we
would recommend as well, to make it in conformance with
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
78
the way the PUD would be approved today but we view it as
a -- I don't want to say a fairness issue necessarily,
but as something that we would try to change the PUD as
little as necessary through this process.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: In other words, you don't
think it's fair by providing two parking spaces for these
units when you know most of the units have two cars?
MR. WEEKS= Commissioner Hasse, I think that would
be appropriate. Again it's a matter of -- Staff's
position, and certainly you would have the right to
disagree with that, is that we make as little change as
possible.
As it is, we're taking the properry's density down
to that which is consistent with the plan trying to make
as few other changes. Certainly, if y'all want to make
other changes you have the authority.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: I would like to see that
happen.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I was just going to say, I
think Mr. Reynolds makes an persuasive argument. But,
I'm also influenced by what our County Attorney's Office
has advised us and she has told us that this is outside
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
79
the process and it's unfortunate that we get caught up
sometimes in these procedures. But, I think that that
issue and I think even with the setbacks, I think it's --
I don't think we should get involved. You're saying
they're minor changes and we shouldn't do it.
If we're going to require them to go back through
and they apparently have an intent to do that, to amend
their PUD, then it would seem to me that that would be
the opportune time to address issues such as parking
requirements, setback requirements, bringing it into
conformance with our current development standards. This
is an old PUD, which is one of those that's been there.
There aren't any improvements. It's not -- he -- Mr.
Reynolds has said, though, he might be able to -- as I
said, there isn't any improvement here but you might have
an exemption is what you've said under the dedication of
a right-of-way?
MR. REYNOLDS: Well, the exemption that is pending
.right now basically would be done away with were this
Board to act on the PUD.
COMMISSIONER VOLPEg I understand, but if it
wasn't, if it got just the change in the lowering of the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
80
density, I assume you would still proceed forward with
your exemption?
MR. REYNOLDS~ If we were to receive -- if we were
to proceed forward with the exemption and received the
exemption -- we would not have been -- asked to be in
this process if we had intended on proceeding forward
with the exemption. But the exemption, right now, would
permit us to have, obviously, a higher density than we
have. Frankly, I think it would have been granted but
we're --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE=
application, Mr. Reynolds?
Have you abandoned that
All I'm trying to get at, is
there going to be the possibility -- if the items that
you've discussed about affordable housing being given the
opportunity to dedicate a certain piece or parcel for a
county park, some of the issues that Mr. Reynolds -- Mr.
Weeks has addressed, is there -- that would be your plan
then to come back through the process to amend your PUD
under the density that's been set to bring those into --,
MR. REYNOLDS: No, if you were to act the Planning
Commission's recommendation to you tonight, then it would
not be necessary for us to come back through a PUD
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
81
amendment --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE= I understand that.
MR. REYNOLDS~ -- unless we chose to utilize the
affordable housing density bonus and come back to you
with an agreement, in which case it would require an
amendment to this PUD as well. Were you to act upon my
recommendation we would still have to come back to the
Board for the affordable housing agreement but not for
the PUD amendment.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE.. I'm just asking you, though,
about your application that's pending.
MR. REYNOLDS: The application pending on -- if you
choose either of those alternatives is withdrawn just by
the action of having approved our -- the request before
you, the application is then withdrawn from
consideration.
MR. WEEKS: Mr. Volpe, if I could add briefly to
that. I think I mentioned at the beginning, this is one
of two or three properties that have applications either
already approved or pending in which the property owners
said, forget it, I want to be included.
Our agreement with the property owner, we've got
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
82
this, I believe in all cases in writing, if we haven't we
will get it certainly, where the property owner is
stating, I withdraw my applications and am allowing you
to take action on my property. However, the property
owner reserves the right to withdraw their property from
the rezoning process at any time.
For example, if at the next hearing it looks like
the property owner is not going to get what he wants, he
or she has the right to withdraw that appli -- withdraw
that property from the rezone consideration and then
Staff will go back to acting on their applications.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think what Mr. Reynolds has
said, if we go along with simply what the CCPC is
recommending which doesn't include the revision to the
PUD for affordable housing or for the .opportunity to
dedicate a community park, that he is still going to
withdraw, at least at this particular ]point in time.
He's still going to withdraw his application.
MR. REYNOLDS: Yeah, that's the understanding from
my client. We've tried to separate the affordable
housing question because we knew we had a disagreement
with Staff on that but we were in agre.ement on the other
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
issues.
83
COMMISSIONER VOLPE~ On the other issues, okay.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Is there any other questions?
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ I don't have any.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHTs Then, what's the pleasure?
Commissioner Shanaban.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: I go along with CCP and
Staff reco~mendation.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT= Commissioner Hasse.
COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Me too.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT= Me also.
Commissioner Volpe.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE= I do as well except with
respect to the recommendations that included the setbacks
and the like. I think if we're going to make them come
back on the affordable housing issues and the others I
think we ought to be consistent in terms of the
applications.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: I certainly conclude the same
thing with the parking spaces.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I have no problem with the
COURT REPORTERSv COLLIER COUNTYv NAPLES, FL 33962
84
CCPC recommendation at this point.
MR. REYNOLDS~ Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: All right. The next item.
MR. WEEKS.. Madam Chairman, I took one out of
order. I'd like to back up about three or four pages to
9523-S. Three pages back from where we were just at,
going back towards the beginning, 9523--S.
Subject property is parcel number 37 highlighted
there, the border of it in yellow. Across Coach House --
this is on Coach House Lane just west of Airport Road
immediately north of Poinciana Elementary School. So,
that's A-2 zoning and the school to the south. To the
north across Coach House Lane, directly to the north, is
a single-family development, a condominium development,
that's the parcel highlighted in blue to the north.
As you can see to both the west and northwest is a
state zoning developed with single-family homes. To the
northeast are the Coach House condos, a multi-family
project at six units per acre. Adjacent to the east of
this property is a partially developed commercial parcel,
zoned C-3 that has a site development plan and exemption
approved. It's partially development, again.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
85
COMMISSIONER VOLPE= What's on t:hat piece. Of
property, Mr. Weeks?
MR. WEEKS= Right now, just the infrastructure,
parking and water management area.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE~ That's a commercial
development?
MR. WEEKS~ That's the beginning of it. This is
one of those with a time-line exemption. We're
monitoring the development of it now. We've been
corresponding both written and verbally with the property
owner as to the status of that. At present it still has
valid exemption.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How much longer will it have
that valid exemption?
MR. WEEKS: Don't know. Like I said, we're
corresponding, we're -- we've advised them that we
disagree with their particular interpretation on the
ordinance. The property owner thinks he's finished. He
thinks he's done all he needs to do and we're telling him
we disagree.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is that a legal opinion that
we're looking for from our county attorney's office?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MR. WEEKS =
attorney on this issue.
by the director.
Subject parcel again is 37.
86
was to fezone the property to the RSF-3 District; number
one, because it's a district consistent with the plan,
number two, we believe it allows uses compatible with the
surrounding properties and in part a thira reason is it
does act as a transition from the commercial development
to the east and then into the low density estates
development to the west.
Planning Commission, after much discussion,
recommended the RSF-4 District and there is a speaker
here, Madam Chairman.
MR. FRANCHINO= Good evening.
My name is Thomas Franchino. I'm an attorney with
Siesky and Lehman in Naples. I represent the owners of
this parcel.
The purpose of the rezoning is to bring the zoning
of unimproved parcels into consistency with the plan.
The subject parcel as zoned is consistent with the plan
and is compatible with its neighbors. To go along with
Staff's recommendation
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
We've not yet consulted with the county
That was a Staff interpretation
87
the recommendation of the Staff would fix the zoning at
the minimum under the plan and also make it incompatible
with its neighbors.
The subject parcel is the one in the yellow with
the stripes going through it and it's a five acre tract,
located Just off Airport Road and it is part of what was
originally plated as Colonial Acres. It's interesting
that Colonial Acres, when it was plated, there were deed
restrictions placed on the property restricting what is
shown here in green to single-family residential use, not
restricting what you see in yellow and brown and in fact
this property has been, except for subject developed
along those lines, immediately to the north is the
Poinciana development.
This parcel is the Coach House condominiums which
is I believe a 50 acre multi-family development.
Carriage Circle, which is 29 units going in there.
Again, this is C-3 and this is the subject parcel. It
makes sense to keep these tracts as a block. The basis
for that, again, is the immediacy to Airport Road and the
fact that when the deed restrictions were placed on this
land these were treated differently than the residential
· OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
88
area to the west. They've been zoned all these years in
the same manner.
The purchasers of this property bought it with that
expectation and the purchasers of this property bought it
with that understanding.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What is it that you're
requesting it be left zoned as?
MR. FRANCHINO~ RMF-6. At this point in time, this
was the dividing line where these properties were zoned
RMF-6, except for the C-3.
These are developed and not being rezoned at this
time. This is an only parcel which is subject to
rezoning at this time.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE~ And, the property across from
Coach House is being developed out at six units?
MR. FRANCHINO~ Carriage Circle, yes. There's 29
units all together going into that five acre tract.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: That other five acre tract
that you have in yellow there, immediately behind the
Coach House condos, what's going in there and what's it
zoned as?
MR. FRANCHINO~ This Carriage Circle?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
89
COMMISSIONER HASSEz Yes.
MR. FRANCHINO{ It's, along with these properties,
it's zoned RMF-6. It's a development where there are 29
single-family residences being placed on the five acre
tract.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE{ Mr. Weeks, this Carriage Hou{3e
Circle, if that's the name of it.
MR. FRANCHINO: Carriage Circle.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE~ Carriage Circle. It's been
outlined in blue. That means there's something happening
with it?
MR. WEEKS: Yes, there was an exemption approved
for the property based upon site development plan
approval and the properry's developing in accordance with
that site development plan.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: At RMF-6?
MR. WEEKS~ That's correct.
Through that exemption and its current construction
it's retaining its RMF-6 zoning.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ And this C-3 will retain --
will continue to be commercialized?
MR. WEEKS= As of right now it still is, yes. It
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
90
has an exemption approved. As I was stating earlier,
we're monitoring the status of that project. It's one of
those that requires continuous construction but as of now
it's still at C-3.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ It seems that the
Petitioner's property would be -- actually at RMF-6 would
be a reasonable transition to the commercial. I don't
know if you have any -- obviously you've recommended
RSF-3.
MR. WEEKS~ I think RMF-6 or single-family, either
one, could function as a transition because they've got a
higher intensity commercial, lower intensity states on
the other side.
However, Staff's recommendation was RSF-3 because
it's consistent and it's compatible. RMF-6 is not
consistent with the plan. I believe the attorney made a
reference to a density band but there is not density band
at this location. It does not extend west of Airport
Road.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
the west developed with a single-family residence?
MR. FRANCHINO~ This property? Yes.
Is the property immediately to
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
91
COMMISSIONER VOLPE~ Yes, sir.
MR. FRANCHINO~ Actually, I think it's been divided
this way into two tracts.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Two single-family residences.
MR. FRANCHINO: I believe so, yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That raises some concerns in
my view if that was undeveloped in terms of a consistency
argument or issue that you've raised and just in terms of
the buffering that would take place. I mean, with six
units an acre, this is five, this is a five acre parcel
so you're talking about 30 units you'd be able to build
on a five acre site backed up to my single-family
residence. I'm wondering about how compatible it is.
You're saying it's inconsistent but it might be
compatible and I'm wondering with, you know, giving
recognition more to the single-family residential
property owners rather than the commercial people.
They're there. I don't know what the debate was with the
CCPC but obviously my compromise is at four.
MR. FRANCHINO: They're there but they bought, I would
say knowing, that this area was restricted and it was
single-family residential this area was not and was in
]%.':: '.: ' .. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
92
the process of being developed and all has been developed
except for this one tract.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I understand that.
MR. FRANCHINO: This is a little larger area, a
larger portrayal of the area. This shows the activity
center at Airport, Golden Gate Parkway.
The Grey Oaks -- immediately south of Colonial
Acres is the Grey Oaks PUD which is a mixed use. It has
office, commercial, extending all the way up out of the
activity center to Poinciana Elementary School, which I
have in the purple color here, that's Poinciana
Elementary School and its entrance road.
Again the C-3, the RMF-6 and I think -- when you
look at this, I think it's clear it is compatible with
its neighboring uses. To the south we have a public use,
the elementary school with its heavy activity and
traffic. The C-3, the RMF-6 immediately to the north and
if there's any benefit to any neighbors there might be
some benefit to one tract of equal size but obviously not
to the remaining area up here.
Also, again, this is -- Coach House Lane is a dead
end. So, all traffic coming off of the subject parcel
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
93
would be entering and exiting through to Airport Road
through these higher densities which are already there
and not impacting the residential area.
Not only do I believe this shows it to be
compatible I think the current zoning is consistent, in
that, under the plan, three units an acre, this is base
density but there's upgrades allowed and one upgrade is
residential in-fill and this parcel would qualify for
residential in-fill. It's under ten acres, central
public and water -- central public water and sewer
available. It's compatible with the surrounding uses.
There's no common site plan or ownership with the
surrounding properties.
To cut it out at this point and to zone it at three
would lock it into the minimum zoning allowed under the
plan. To leave it at six would leave it at a consistent
zoning and one which I believe is compatible with its
neighbors.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Yeah, but it would be
beneficial, would it not, for the neighbors to have
little less density in that property; seeing the
single-family homes immediately. to the west.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
94
MR. FRANCHINO: It would be beneficial to one tract
but I don't know if it's a weighing of the benefits, is
it a fair move to take more than half the density from
one tract to benefit a residential, one residential tract
of equal size which is next to it and is also bordering
an area which is developed as a heavier use and those
owners, when they bought in there, should have known of
that but those are things that have been going on.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Madam Chairman.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Seems to me, I'm persuaded
that the RMF-6 is not inappropriate for that site based
on what's around there. But, I would ask the Petitioner,
whether the Petitioner would agree and obviously we don't
want to get into site planning at this hearing but it
seems to me that if you have some significant buffering
between your site and the single-family homes, and you
should have some available space for that buffering,
seems to me we can accommodate the single-family homes
next door as well as provide for the, what would appear
to be a more reasonable use to that property since it's
surrounded by RMF-6, C-4 or C-3 and then the Poinciana
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
95
Elementary School.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHTs The buffer that's north of
that, what is the buffer in that because it's --
COMMISSIONER HASSE~
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN:
and those residential --
Coach House Lane.
RMF-6.
The buffering between that
MR. FRANCHINO= Along this parcel here?
I really can't speak -- I would be guessing but
there may be a wall that was constructed, a six foot or
seven foot wall.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ Well, at some point, you're
going to be coming back, with I guess, with some sort of
a site plan or something for approval by the Board and I
think, I personally, will be looking for some buffering
that may be more than what is the minimum required.
Do you have any problem with that?
MR. FRANCHINO~ No problem at all. We just don't
want to preclude any possibilities at this point in time
and any reasonable restrictions placed on the ultimate
development of that plan are understood and accepted.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I think that it should be
OPFICI~ CO~T RE~RTERS, COLLIER COUNT, ~PLES, PL 33962
96
consistent with the project to the north. The project to
the north is RMF-6 and it's under development and
whatever the setbacks or the wall or whatever should be
with that should be consistent with the project to the
south.
MR. CUYLER.. Just for your information, the site
plan won't come back to the Board. It's going to be
administrative.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE'. This is too small of a parcel,
obviously, or maybe not obviously, for some type of a
development agreement. That's what you're doing with the
parcel that we're talking about for Westinghouse. If
we' re going to do it, then we' re going to do it. So, I
mean, that's a five acre parcel, Isn't It? I've sort of
lost track of it. That's a five acre parcel. How are we
going to use these development agreements?
MR. CUYLER.' That's just it. We don't -- one of
the reasons Staff was not inclined to just amend the
development agreement ordinance outright and to look for
some other options is that we don't want to get into a
development agreement situation where every single
property owner is saying, you know, I want a buffer 20
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
97
feet. Are you happy with that? That's beyond what your
ordinance is. Let's have a development agreement. We' re
going to be snowed with these things for Just little tiny
development standard type violations. I don't think the
Board wants get into that. Everyone's going to have to
be negotiated. It's going to take a lot of Staff time
for relatively small items.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE.' But, if you limited it to a
development agreement in connection with a fezone, you
wouldn't have people coming in just trying to jump to a
development agreement.
MR. CUYLER= Generally, what you do is you don't
have them with the fezone. You have a development
agreement and then you have a fezone pursuant to the
development agreement. You first look at what the county
is getting out of the development agreement and if you
negotiate and in fact enter into that agreement, then the
developer's requiz'ed to do certain things and in turn --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Cuyler, the discussion
seems to be that the R-6 may, in fact, be acceptable to
the majority of the Board. If, in fact, we can get some
L! level of an assurance that the actual development of the
..
OFFI'c'rI~., COU~ RB~:~)RTE~ COLr,'r~R CO~ ~~ ~ 33~'~' ~'~
98
parcel here will be consistent with the development
immediately to the north.
MR. CUYLER~ The only way that I can see is that
you can make, as part of the record, you're going to have
to get the message to your Staff to basically include
those items which we don't normally do and I would want
to see the Petitioner agree to it on the record, and in
the event Staff has any concerns about that site plan
meeting what your intent is, that you have a requirement
that the site plan be brought back to the Board of County
Commissioners which, again, is not a normal process and
we normally don't do that but if the Petitioner agrees to
those things I think it's within your discretion to
handle it that way.
Madam Chairman, I just want to
I believe there is a registered
MR. WEEKS:
interrupt briefly.
speaker on this parcel.
CRAIRMANGOODNIGRT:
speaker on this one?
COMMISSIONER ~ASSE:
Do we have a registered
Before the speaker goes on,
Mr. Weeks, the Staff has recommended 15 units on this 5
acre tract, is that correct?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
99
MR. WEEKS{
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN:
MR. WEEKS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN:
multi-family?
Approximately, 15 based upon -- yes.
Single-family?
And, we're considering
MR. WEEKS: Multi-family development --
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Six.
MR. WEEKS{ -- six, about 30 units. There's also
some difference in the height limitations. Single-family
height is about 25 feet and multi is about 30.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: You said earlier, before
Mr. Henderson begins, that it was not compatible, it
would inconsistent with the plan if we 'went RMF-6?
MR. WEEKS{ RMF-6, right, in our opinion is
inconsistent with the plan. Again, our focus here,
Staff's has been, try to fezone it to a consistent zoning
district then determine is that compatible. If it's not
compatible, then we abandon the consistent district and
try to rezone it to something else that's going to be
compatible.
In this case, we believe that a consistent zoning
district, RSF-3, is compatible with the surrounding area.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
100
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGhT: Mr. Anderson.
MR. ANDERSON: Good evening. For' the record, my
name is Bruce Anderson. I represent the adjacent
homeowner, Mr. Lanny Newell. We support the Staff
recommendation to fezone this property to RSF-3.
Under the Staff recommendation, as Mr. Commissioner
Hasse noted, he could still have 15 dwelling units on
that five acre parcel as compared with the rest of the
block, the next door property, which is 2 units on the
five acres.
We feel that 15 units is a more appropriate
transition between the commercial and the estates zoning.
It's more appropriate than 30 condominium units being
constructed on that property.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Anderson, is the concern
primarily the questions that have been discussed by the
Board having to do with proper bufferin!] and height or is
it -- does it have to do with density o]: a combination of
both.
MR. ANDERSON: It really has to do with the
density, yes, sir.
You compare it and it is such a gross disparity
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, ~PLES, FL 33962
lol
between the 2 units on 5 acres and right next door 30
units on five acres.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Except across the street it's
the same thing, though, right?
MR. ANDERSON~ No, it is not.
Right here, it's divided into four, so you have
four there. So, it's a little bit different.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE.' But they are single-family
residences?
MR. ANDERSON~ Oh, yes, yes, they are.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: But then, in the yellow, next
door to that, it's how many units per acre?
MR. ANDERSON: It's six.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: RMF, good.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Which is under development
MR. ANDERSON: Right. Here you have two homes,
across the street you have four.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
MR. ANDERSON: Five.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
On how many acres?
And, here yOLk' re granting them
15 if you go for three units an acre.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
102
MR. ANDERSON~ That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: I'll be satisfied with that.
MR. ANDERSON: The property owner is here and also
wishes to say something to you. Thank you.
MR. NEWELL: Madam Chairman, commissioners, my name
is Lanny Newell. I reside on Coach House Lane. I would
just like to make a couple corrections that Mr. Franchino
made.
I believe he stated that this was 50 acres, it's
not, it's 10. He stated this was 9, it's 5. This
happens to be 5 acres also. He made the statement that
the residents here purchased this property knowing that
this was zoned commercial or a higher density. I think
Mr. Franchino, would like to at least tell the
commission -- I believe that that is not true.
This piece of property right now is in a suit. I
represent the majority of the homeowners here. We're
suing the property owner. We believe tlhe covenant
restrictions on Coach House Lane apply to the piece of
property. The suit is pending. About two months ago it
was to come before the judge for determination. For some
reason the Plaintiff, which he represents, decided not to
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
103
go before the judge. I don't know why. Maybe he feels
that the restrictions do apply to this i~iece of
properties. But, we did not buy here, ~(nowing that these
pieces of property were not going to be residential. I
guarantee that I didn't pay this, and I owned this whole
five acres at one point, I never bought this thinking I
was going to next to a multi-family piece of property or
commercial. I would not have bought it had I known that
when I came here in 1973.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE~ Mr. Newell, no matter what
this Board does with that particular piece of property,
though, if you are successful in your lawsuit, won't that
determine the use of that property?
MR. NEWELL: That is correct. It will be zoned for
E-Estates and it will be limited to hav:[ng one unit on
each two and a quarter acre.
But, the point he made here was representing that
we in the street bought that property knowing that that
was a multi-family property, that is absolutely not true.
I think I would also like to make a mention that --
I think he mentioned, about the CarriagE: Circle. You're
talking about a density there of six units to the acre.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, ~PLES, FL 33962
104
That is this piece of property here. I guarantee you
that had residents of Coach House Lane known that they
weren't going to be able to do the density that they have
there now, we would have objected and that's the exact
reason why we're objecting now.
In addition, I think counsel has pointed out on the
other piece of property next to the Carriage Circle are
four units to the acre and there are four units on the
five acres and there's two on other fiw.· acres personal
piece of property on the five acres south of it.
Frankly, I'd like to see one unit to two and a
quarter of acres there, the exact way the rest of the
street is. I disagree, frankly, with Staff that you
could even have three units to the acre.. But, obviously
I'm the adjoining property owner and I have vested rights
to make sure that we keep as low a density as possible.
I'm not here just representing myself. I'm
representing everybody in Coach House Lane or a
substantial number of them here, both in the suit as well
as to be here tonight and speak in theic behalf that we
don't want the density in the street.
Thank you very much for your time.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, N~%PLES, FL 33962
105
MR. FRANCHINOz Can I have few seconds to clarify
the lawsuit angle. Actually, that's in no way related to
this. It's a quiet title action brought by my client,
the property owner. The same quiet title action as been
brought on the other three parcels which are now being
developed and all that is is to make clear that the deed
restrictions which apply to the area in green do not
apply to those other tracts. The last of which is my
client's and we're not being sued by the property owners.
It's unrelated to the zoning. It's a quiet title action.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Thank you. Is there any
questions?
MR. WEEKS: Madam Chairman, I think I need to
mention another thing or two, briefly. As I stated in
the executive summary but I don't think I verbalized,
Staff's position has been to look at these properties,
pretty much at their base density of that three or four
units per acre and with the exception of the density
bands, which we had discussed with you, the Board, in
November of 1990, we were not utilizing any of the other
provisions of the Density Rating System for these
residential properties.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
106
What attorney has brought up is the residential
in-fill provision of the Density Rating System which will
allow for an addition of up to three units per acre which
would make this property eligible for s~Lx units per acre
if it complies with that provision.
One of the reasons Staff has not looked at these
other provisions in the Density Rating :~ystem is because
many of them, including this one provis:Lon, require
knowledge, in some cases site design, knowledge of water
and sewer availability, knowledge of ownership of the
properties, knowledge of any approved s:Lte plans as to
whether they're common site plans or individual for each
parcel, or whether or not property was split to take
advantage of this provision.
For these reasons, all of this necessary checking
up to do, we have not utilized this or the other
provisions of the Density Rating System.. Certainly, the
Board has the right to do so.
One of the last provision -- the ].ast criteria of
the Residential Landfill Provision is compatibility and
amongst those other findings you would need to make the
finding that this property is compatible at the six units
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, ~PLES, FL 33962
107
per acre in order for you to leave it at six units per
acre. We're back to that compatibility issue either
under consistency or under leaving it so as to allow for
a compatible use with surrounding property.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Procedurally, Mr. Weeks, if
this property owner wanted to use the in-fill provisions
in our Zoning Re-Evaluation Ordinance couldn't he have
made applications within that periods of time? Didn't he
get notice of the fact that his property was going to be
down zoned?
MR. WEEKS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Could he have taken some
action at that time that would have allowed you to look
at that specific piece of property and evaluate it under
the Zoning Re-Evaluation Ordinance and addressed those
issues?
MR. WEEKS: Yes. As far as the ZR-- Zoning
Re-Evaluation Ordinance goes, yes, applications could
have been filed and were not.
MR. VOLPE: I was just trying to ~iet at if he had
filed the application, would that have been the
appropriate time for the Staff to evalua~te this under the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, ~%PLES, FL 33962
Density Bonus Ordinance?
etting at. Staff's position has been, and still is,
Rating System. The Board of County Co ,issioners do.
Typically, it's through a rezonincl action that the
Board is considering. The difference here is instead of / I
the property ~ner coming before you and saying, I want
intensity or density but it's still your the same Board
of County C~missioners that would determine which of
these provisions are qualified for to achieve s certain
density or intensity of use.
~o, what I'm saying is Staff has not utilized any
of these other provisions other than the density band.
YOU ~0 have [hat abil,ty to if you Oeem it appropriate.
=~,~ ~o~,,~.=: Questions.
COMMISSIONER HASSE, Well, I don't have any
sooner had it two and a half acres also because the
109
majority of the property to the west iE: two and a half
acres. I can accept Staff's recommendation for RSF-3
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Commissioner Shanahah.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: CCPC recommendation, RSP-4.
Myself, I will go with StaffIs
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
recommendation of three.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
I could go with neither,.
recommendation, either three or four.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
That's a good answer.
I guess for the purpose of
this first hearing, I think, based upon the discussion
though that I'm not persuaded by the Petitioner's
argument of RMF-6.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS= I tend to agree with the
CCPC recommendation, at least at this point, but may drop
down to the Staff recommendation before it's all over
with in two weeks.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
Weeks?
MR. WEEKS~ Yes, sir.
Next item.
Could I make suggestion, Mr.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
110
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
property.
honestly.
I don't know who owns this
He may be my brother-in-law, I don't know,
So, maybe it would be helpful if someone could
identify who the property owners are. We are rezoning
some property and we could be criticized for the actions
if we don't know who it is that we're favoring or
disfavoring.
COMMISSIONER RASSE: I think his name is Joe Volpe.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I don't know who they are and
that's my point. My point is, suppose it's your
sister-in-law.
I would appreciate it if you would identify who
the property owners are.
MR. CUYLER: Let me talk to Staff about that. If
you know who you're subjecting to criticism, you don't
know who you're subjecting to criticism.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: At least I can make disclosure
if I know who it is.
MR. CUYLER: I'll talk to Staff about that.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Next item.
MR. WEEKS: Madam Chairman, the last property that
I'm aware of that we have a speaker here for is about
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
111
five pages over, map number 0514-S.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: 0514-S.
MR. CUYLER: Mr. Franchino, I assume you're going
to bring those back for the next hearing.
We'll need to make those a part of the record at
some point, but you can maintain them and just bring them
back.
COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT.' Okay.
MR. WEEKS: There's a couple different parcels
here. We're discussing parcel 108, the parcel closest to
the top of your map. Currently zoned ~{SD, Mobile Home
Subdivision. The property to the north is also zoned
Mobile Home Subdivision outlined in blue. It has an
exemption granted to it, zoning is preserved, it can be
developed as zoned.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Let's take a short break.
(At this time, the fire alarm sounded in the
boardroom and a short break was h~d.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I'll call the meeting back to
order. I guess we're waiting on David.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: David probably is outside
waiting for the fire truck.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, N~%PLES, FL 33962
112
(Mr. Weeks entered the boardroom.)
MR. WEEKS~ Commissioners, subject property, again,
on map 0514-S it's parcel number 108 colored in yellow
near the top of the map. The property to the north
colored in blue is also zoned Mobile Home Subdivision and
has it's application approved such that it can be
developed as zoned. It is currently vacant.
To the east is the Lake Avalon PUD which we
discussed earlier which permits multi-family development.
Currently at 3.8 units per acre and again proposed to be
just under 3.
To the south of this property is a subdivision
zoned VR, Village Residential and it's developed
completely with mobile' homes. Then, to the west of this
property is a parcel partially zoned C-,I, partially zoned
Mobile Home Subdivision and it has a compatibility
exception application pending.
Staff's recommendation is to leave the zoning
Mobile Home Subdivision but reduce the density to three
units per acre so as to provide a density that is
consistent with the plan but allow a use, mobile homes,
that is compatible with the majority of the surrounding
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, N~PLES, FL 33962
113
development.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ What's the density
permitted right now?
MR. WEEKS: Approximately seven units per acre.
The zoning district does not state a maximum density.
It's a matter of how many lots you can get on the
property, meet all of your setbacks, meet all your water
management requirements, et cetera.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Is CCPC suggesting the
maximum units?
MR. WEEKS: Yes. The Planning Co~mission's
recommendation is leave the property zoned, as is, let it
be developed at how many units they can get under that.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Without any cap?
MR. WEEKS: That's correct. There is a speaker
here.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS{ The property to the north,
it's a MHSD, is how many units per acre on that?
MR. WEEKS: It's vacant now. It can be developed.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Seven?
MR. WEEKS: That's correct, approximately, seven.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Yes, sir.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
114
MR. GEBHARDT~ My name is Robert Gebhardt, I'm with
the firm of Gebhardt and White and I represent Mercantile
Bank, of Naples which is the owner of not only lot 108
but the lot 109 which is to the north of that.
Lot 108 is basically an island. ]:t is surrounded
by existing mobile home subdivision development. I think
the highest and best use of the property will be the
development as mobile home so we do not disagree with
Staff's recommendation on the mobile home.
Our concern is this, that is, tha~: right now if you
ignore the lot line between 108 and 109., and 109 by the
way, we have full capability of develop:[ng the maximum
there. I'm not sure that seven is a good number there.
The reason is because if you take 7 and divide it into
42,000 square feet, you come up with 6,000 square feet
which is the max -- the minimum lot size for a mobile
home.
But, in the location of this prop,.~rty, you're going
to need roads in there, you're going to need a number of
things in there so that I'm not even sure that six would
be a good number in the lot to the nortln.
There's -- our disagreement with Staff is this it's
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, 5~PLES, FL 33962
115
that if you put the limitation on the yellow area, lot
108 and you have no limitation on lot 109, it constricts
the way that this property can be developed and there are
some natural constraints on this property that are going
to result in less than seven or six units as it is.
The natural constraints are that there's a very,
very sizable lake which is part of county drainage
district for that area. In order to build on that you're
going to have to fill and you're going 'to have to -- I've
talked with the county water people and they say that
you're not going to be able to fill in all those lakes
entirely, it's just not going to be in the cards.
So, therefore, you may get a distorted development
because by limiting the amount of development down in lot
108, what the developer obviously will do is pack as much
as he can into lot 109 and do the filling in 109 instead
of 108 because the lake encompasses both properties.
It's our position that a natural development here
that is constrained naturally, by the water on there
which can not be entirely limited, will be a better
constraint and the developer taking both parcels together
will be able to develop a more attracti~'e subdivision
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
116
than if he is forced to place all of the: units on the 109
because that's where he's entitled to build the maximum.
I think there are constraints herE: that would -- it
just wouldn't provide for a good site p].an if all of a
sudden the bottom half is three, the top half is six or
five or seven or whatever it is and you start pushing
around the lake in order to accommodate, basically, an
artificial zoning, with all due respect to Dave, he does
very, very good job for the county. But:, he's basing his
opinion, as he said before, based on the fact that he's
going down to the minimum density. But,. in this
particular case, because of the geography of it, I'm not
sure that it makes sense.
COMMISSIONER VOLPEt
pending on the parcel to --
that to the Bayshore Drive?
You've got an application
I've lost my direction.
Is that to the south?
MR. GEBHARDT: No, it's to the north.
COMMISSIONER VOLPEt To the north..
Is
,~.!!' MR. GEBHARDT: It's not pending, J~t's approved. We
!'~'??":'" have the maximum zoning?
I~ .~'~i~,~,>~i~ ~ COMMISSIONER VOLPE: It s been approved?
117
COMMISSIONER VOLPE= And so, has the property to
the east?
MR. WEEKS= To the west. That's ]?ending.
MR. GEBHARDT: That is not the bank's property.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What is that currently
zoned?
MR. WEEKS~ The portion abutting t:he subject
property to the west is mobile home subdivision and the
remainder of the parcel is zoned C-4, two zonings on that
one parcel.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE.' So, you're saying in all
likelihood, like this gentleman has said, it looks like
this will be the only parcel in the immediate area that
would be zoned RMF-3?
MR. WEEKS= No. Staff's recommendation is Mobile
Home Subdivision zoning remain but cap the density at
three units per acre. So, the density ~;ould be lower
than the surrounding properties, but the use is the same.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ Madam Chairman, I feel that
the CCPC recommendation makes sense there, to leave it at
MHSD and not cap the density.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: I think you'~e right, there.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
118
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE .-
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT..
Commission Hasse.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
Commission Volpe.
That's fine.
It's fine wi~:h me also.
That's fine.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT.. Next item.
MR. WEEKS.. Madam, Chairman, the ].ast property for
which we have an interested party here, go back to the
beginning and then count to the 9th map..
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: What about 103 there.
MR. WEEKS: What I was proposing to do is cover all
those properties. There's no speaker here so we'll take
those in regular order.
C~AIRMAN GOODNIGHT
now.
Are we going to have a straw?
MR. WEEKS~ Yes, ma'am, please.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Well, then let's do it right
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN.. On which one?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: The 103 on tke same page that
we were on.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
Staff is rec¢.mmending RSF-3
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, ~%PLES, FL 33962
119
and RPT is -- CCPC is recommending RMF-6.
MR. WEEKS~ That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Same zoning, I would prefer.
MR. WEEKS: CCPC thought that we needed to leave
the property as zoned to be compatible with the
surrounding development. Most particularly, they
commented on the PUD to the north which is built out at
16 units per acre. Then, also, Dell's is located is
located on that C-5 parkway.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Commissioner Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I'll go along with the
CCPC.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHTs
I agree.
I agree, also.
Commissioner
COMMISSIONER HASSE= I too.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Commissioner Shanahan.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: CCPC.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Thank you. That one's handled.
Now, which one do we go back to?
MR. WEEKS: If we go back to the beginning and we
count to the 9th map, that should be 9522-N; N, as in
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
north. Excuse me, 7th map. 7th map from the beginning.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: What's the number?
MR. WEEKS.' 9522-N. After this we can take them in
regular order. There are two parcels here shown in
yellow and Staff's recommendation, as well as the
Planning Commission's is not to take action on either of
them because the adjacent properties have applications
pending.
The property attorney that's here just wants to
make sure that that's what you -- that you endorse the
recommendations with us.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE.. Why don't you. just help us out
here. What are they currently zoned?
MR. WEEKS.. Both are zoned RMF-6 at present.
Again, our recommendation and Planning Commission is
let's don't fezone them now, let's don't: take any action
on them. Let's wait and see what happy:ns to the --
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
with that?
MR. WEEKS:
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
reasonable.
And, the Petitioner agrees
That's correct.
Madam Chairman, that sounds
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
121
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Fine with me.
COMMISSIONER SHANABAN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Fine, fine, fine.
said, yes, fine.
MR. WEEKS:
beginning now, we can take these in the order in which
they appear on the map. The first parcel, very first map
8508-N property zoned RMF-16ST, surrounded by undeveloped
property. Staff and Planning Commission recommend RSF-3.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
and CCP's recommendation.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
Everybody
All right, next item.
Madam Chairman, we're back to the
Is there a problem with Staff
COMMISSIONER SBANAHAN:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
next map.
MR. WEEKS:
Nope.
Move that we accept.
Then you have. that. All right,
8508-S, continuation ¢.f the subject
property on the left side. Staff's recommendation and
Planning Commission, rezoned to RSF-3.
Is there a problem with that?
Does the treatment overlay
That's correct. In all cases overlay's
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
remain?
MR. WEEKS:
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
122
remain
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGhT: Is there a problem?
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN.' I have no problem.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: All right, next item.
MR. WEEKS: May we skip the next map, next two
maps, we' re down to -- next three maps. We' re down to
8520-S. Likewise, the Staff and Planning Commission
recommending not taking any action on those properties in
yellow because of applications 'pending on nearby
properties.
COMMISSIONER S~ANAHAN:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
COMMISSIONER HASSE..
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT ~
MR. WEEKS~ Skip the next page.
Move for approval.
Any problems?
Nope.
Okay.
We're at 9523-N.
Staff and Planning Commission recommending RSF-3 zoning.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Is there problem with it?
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ I have none.
that.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
The rest of the commission.
Where are we? I understand
Where -- Bailey Lane off of Airport Road.
MR. WEEKS: Yes, that's correct. This is adjacent
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
123
to the north of Poinciana subdivision, :Dingle-family
subdivision.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Okay.
All right, next item.
MR. WEEKS~ Skip the next map. We're on 0501-S,
the parcel's in yellow. Staff and Planning Commission
recommending RSF-3. Property owner supports that in
writing.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
Approved.
Problem?
Nope.
These properties, is that like
in a traffic congested area?
MR. WEEKS= No, this is east of the --
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT=
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
It's next door to Foxfire.
Over that way.
Davis Boulevard.
It's the yellow isn't it?
MR. WEEKS~
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
MR. WEEKS= 0513-N.
That's correct.
You're right:.
Next item..
Staff and Planning Commission
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
124
recommend taking no action. It's that small yellow
parcel way over to the left zoned Mobile Home
Subdivision. Take no action on the property so as to
leave it a use that will be compatible with surrounding
properties. Regardless of what we zone it, it's only
going to get one unit.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Is there problem?
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: I have none.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT.. Next item.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Madam Chairman. On every
one of these, unless there's a difference between the
Staff and the CCPC, we're going to -- obviously, we're
going to approve that. Are there any that are different
in their recommendations?
MR. WEEKS: Yes. We'll have to identify them but
we can easily do that.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Could we just do that? I
don't think anybody's going to disagree if the two
recommendations are the same.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: No, not if the recommendations
are the same. Do you have any different ones, Mr. weeks?
MR. WEEKS: Yes, sir. If you bear with me, I'll
125
just flip until I find one.
About 5 pages from where we left off, 0616-S.
There's no disagreement but there is a ]~rticular item
that we need to discuss briefly.
COMMISSIONER HASSE:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
MR. WEEKS~ Yes, ma'am.
Hammock Roads identified here.
Go ahead.
0616-S?
There's 'two Parkers
There's one, one street
up from Rattlesnake Hammock Road and then the next street
up is also.
From the southernly Parkers Hammock Road, the
Parkers Hammock Road closest to Rattlesnake Hammock, all
of those yellow properties north of there Staff and
Planning Commission recommend it be rezoned at RSF-3
District. And, then the two properties between the
southernly Parkers Hammock Road and Rattlesnake Hammock
Road, both Staff and Planning Commission recommend take
no action there's a Compatibility Exception Application
pending. No disagreement there.
The point I wanted to raise though, this entire
'l~!i??~' unrecorded Parkers Hammock Subdivision being zoned RMF-6
~i.::~!.i::i::" which allows multi-family or single-family development,
'%~. !
· OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
126
all of the lots that are developed currently north of the
Parkers Hammock Road here, north of the southernly
Parkers Hammock Road, they're all developed with
single-family uses.
Now, through the Zoning Re-Evaluation Program, we
can not fezone those developed properties. This program
is only for undeveloped and consistently zoned
properties.
But, Staff, in going through the properties here,
recognize that with all of the single-f~uuily development
existing within this subdivision, we thought it might be
appropriate to rezone those developed lots to
single-family also to ensure that they don't in the
future develop with a multi-family use so that we don't
end up with a hodge-podge of single-family, multi-family
such as we have in Naples Park.
We can not take action on this tonight, other than
you giving us direction, if you so desi:~e, to pursue that
as a separate matter to initiate a rezoning of the
property.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: So far, everything there is
single-family homes?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
127
it.
it.
MR. WEEKS: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Then we want to maintain
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
MR. WEEKS:
I have no problem with it.
I wouldn't have a problem with
recommendation four to one.
until I find a discrepancy.
The Planning Commission endorsed that
I'll flip further again
Madam Chairman, we're down to the last two pages.
Again no disagreement merely to raise a couple of issues.
Most -- the next to last map, 1720-N, parcel number six
at the top of the page that is zoned A-2.
This is the property I mentioned in the beginning
that we inadvertently rezoned from Mobile Home
Subdivision to A-2. The property in fact is developed.
We need to reverse our action and rezone it back to
Mobile Home Subdivision.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHANs It's got a store on it?
MR. WEEKS: I don't know exactly what the structure
is but it's owned by AT&T. I'm assuming it's some type
of communication equipment but it is considered a
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
128
developed lot. I just wanted to bring that to your
attention because it's unique. No disagreement between
the Planning Commission and Staff.
Then, on the very last parcel, to the last page,
1720-S, parcel number 136 the lowest tier of lots may not
be colored on your maps. I wasn't sure but that should
be included. It is part of this rezone process and I
just wanted to make sure that you' re aware of that.
Recommendation was the same between Planning Commission
and Staff.
C~AIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Any problem with that?
MR. WEEKS: Madam Chairman.
That concludes the proposed work. As far as the
second hearing goes, we'll certainly entertain any
direction that you might deem necessary, Mr. Volpe has
already suggested identification of the property owners.
The second thing we will do is identify your straw vote
that you've given tonight on the map se,:.
Unless you all have an objection ::o this, we will
only provide you with an executive summary and a map set.
We will not give you this thick package of information.
We'll ask you to hold on to what you've got, if that's
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
129
accept abl e.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: One thing before we adjourn,
on the 25th we're supposed to have a amendment to our
Growth Management Plan and it's supposed to start at 9:00
o'clock. At 11~00 o'clock is supposed to be the grand
opening of all of the pocket of poverty packages that
we've done. I'd like to ask the Board, instead of us
meeting at 9~00, if we could begin at 1500 or 1:30. They
say it's going to take about four hours to do it. That's
what the Planning Commission had today.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: That's September 25th?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Yes, sir. Then that way we'll
be able to attend the opening of and the celebration of
the pocket of poverty in Immokalee.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: I'm out. I'm already
committed through September 25th.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: For the morn~ng also?
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN:
co~mitment.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
It's an afternoon
Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Sorry.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: BCC is at 1:00 o'clock?
33962
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
130
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
o'clock, so --
COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN:
11:00 o'clock finish at 11:007
It was scheduled for 9:00
Start at :3:00 and finish
Are there two hearings on that
It's just one hearing on the Growth
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Well, the on.e in Immokalee
starts at 11:00 and so that's the reason I was saying
that we'd only have a hour before we'd have to be over
there.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
amendment process?
Management Plan?
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Yeah and it's going to take
four votes.
MR. CUYLER: It's just one hearing. It's a
transmittal hearing.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: And, it's going to take four
votes.
Maybe if Staff can look at a time to where we could
hold it, maybe the next day or something or another?
COMMISSIONER V0LPE: How about in the evening? We
would be done by 6:00 o'clock.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: I saw that look on her face.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, ~%PLES, FL 33962
131
COMMISSIONER SRANAHAN:
Mike, it's a whole --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
to accommodate--
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
not then I just won't go.
You've got to look at it
Okay, fine. I'm just trying
Why don't we look at it and if
MR. CUYLER= Madam Chairman, for 'the purpose of
this hearing you need to close your public hearing and
announce the daytime place of the next ]public hearing.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I would like to make a
motion to close the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER HASSE: Second.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I have a motion and a second
to close the public hearing the next meeting will be
on
MR. WEEKS
September the 16th.
September the 16th, at 5:05 --
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
MR. WEEKS{ 6:00 p.m.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT:
6:00 p.m.
MR. WEEKS: In this room.
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: In this room.
MR. WEEKS: That's a Monday night..
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I have a motion and a second.
All in favor, signify by saying, "Aye".
(Chorus of "Ayes".)
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Opposed.
(No response. )
CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT.. Motion carried unanimously.
Thank you.
132
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
133
STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF COLLIER )
I, Jacquelyn'D. McMiller, Deputy Official Court
Reporter, do hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings
were taken before me at the date and place as stated in the
caption hereto on Page 1 hereof; that the foregoing
computer-assisted transcription, consisting of pages numbered
2 through 133, inclusive, is a true record of my Stenograph
notes taken at said proceedings.
Dated this 4th day of October, 1991.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
~ I ~ II I IIII IllIll III -'-- I I I IIII II II
September 5, 1991
t
There being no further business for the Good of the County, the
~.leeting was adjourned by Order of the Chair - Time: 7:30 P.M.
:' BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS
CONTROL
PATRICIA ANNE GOODNI~T, CHAIRMAN
'':'" '~ ~:[~.e,..~.in~te~?~.p..r. oved by the Board
.~-,.', ~.........,.......y :/..
~:~[~~,~ -:., or as corrected
., '~;j: ? ·
on