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BCC Minutes 10/16/1991 S " I ORiGi A - COI,I,YER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS UNIFIED LAND DEVEI,OPMENT CODE PUBI,IC HEARTNC Octnhmr 16, lqql 5:05 p.m. Third Floor Boardroom Collier County Courthouse Xaples, Florida 33q62 Reported by: Chrt3tina J. Reynoldson Deputy Official Court Roporter Notary Public State of Florida at. l,arge TBI,E: OFFTCTAb COURT REPORTERS Carrotbern Reporting S~r'vic~., Tnc. ?.Oth J~dtctal Circuit - c.~,llier County 3301 Ea~I. Tamiami Trail Napl e~, Florida ~3q62 (813) 732-2700 FAX: (R13) 774-6022 A P PEA R ANt E.q BOARD HENBERt{: P. Anne OoodntghL - Chajrnan Nax A. Rasse - County ~ommt~Joner Richard Shanahah - County Commissioner Niehae] Volpe - County Commissioner BTAFF: Ken Bagtnski - Planning 8ervJce~ Hanager Frank Brutt- Community Development. Ken Cuylec - County Att. orney NeJ] Dorr~]l - County Nanager Bob Fahey - ~o~Jd ~'a~t.e D~re~t. or Hartha Howell - Anti,rant Co, nty At.t.~rney John HadaJe~ki - Project. R~vte~ ~illiam Herr ill - Conm~ltant ·om Olliff - Admtnt~t. rat. ive ~avtd Pet. tr~ - D~velr)pment. HarJorie ~t.dent - Armlet. ant. ~PgAKERB: Gary B~ardsley BLeve Bsnson Robert Duane Dan Head Btl! Hoover Htahael Fernande~ Linda La~on Jerry Heyer Tony Pires D~toht Richardson Ken Riley Don ~ecreto .~ OFFTCTAI, COtlRT REPOR~.R.q, CO{,[,TER COUNTY, NAPI,E.q,FI, 3.3062 3 PROCEEDINGS CHAIRMAN GOODNIGIfT: I'll ca]] the meeting to order. All rise, please. (The invo~ation was presented, followed by recitetie. of the Pledge of Allegiance.) CHAIRMAN GOODN~G11T: Mr. Petri]l, I understand that there's an addition to the agenda. MR. DeRRIff,: Ye~, ma'am. This Js ~omewhat unusual, but ! have a requested add-on item this evening for our agenda. It's not the county manager's annual salary increase. ~t tea ]~mJted use agreement for GS Equipment Company to do and participate for two ~eek~ An eo~e experimental landfill mining activities involving this company's particular equipmerit. They're only going to be here for two weeks. We felt that because th~y'r~ Going to be doing some landfill mining experimentation that it would behoove us to have an actual agreement with the requisite hold harm]ess activities. ~t has been reviewed and approved and by both our Risk Management Department as we]l as the County Attorney's Office. It's my ~nderstand~ng that they will be here for two weeks on]y; from March the 17th OFFICXAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 through the end of the month, which is October the 31st. Their activities will be segregated away from and apart from normal landfill activities and will not interfere in any way with the county op~rations. ~n order to accommodate this request that we have an interest in as ~e're modifying this particular equtl~ent, ~e have prepared an executive summary and a limited use and license agreement for tht~ two-week period. ! would like to have yoder approval of this agreement this evening. ! have ~r. Fahey here and he can answer any ~peeifie questions. This came up lath last week and ~ had asked that the limited use agreement be prepared. It was not ready in time and had not been reviewed by th~ county attorney at your regular meeting yesterday or I would have asked that it'd been added yesterday. That's thm reason that ~'m asking to add it here this evening. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Is this all beneficial to the county? HR. DORRIL~: It is as Dart and parcel of us evaluating some different types of screening equipmen~ and apparatus as it relates to the strip mining proce;s. OFFIC~AI~ COUR? REPORTERS, COI, l,TER COUNTY, NAPI,F.,~, FL 33962 ~here'6 no coet involved to t.h~. eoiJnt. y. There'~ labor-related activity Involved ~n the enunt. y. Tht~ particular company, aa Z Indicated, ie do~ng ~me expet~ment. atton ~tth 9ome of t. heJr company'n own equipment tn thJa regard for tht~ t,o-,eek period. COMMISSIONER H~B: They cnuldn't. do ] andft I l ? HR. ~RRJLI,: ~ey are in fact. doing it. on our la~df~l], t. hua the neeeaa~ty to hav~ t.h~ agreement. hold COMM~gS~ONER VOI,PE: Ar~ yr)~ a~king t.o add it. t.o the agenda or are ue actually hav~ng ft. ~R. DORR[I,I,: ~'m a~king t.o add it t.o t,h~ agenda and ~ ~ou]d like to diatoms it. furt. her. here to answer queetton,, I'd like t.o do it. firmer. that they not have to ~aft.. CHAIRMAN G~DN~GHT: Do any of t. he have a prob]em ~ith adding t. ht~ t.o t. he agenda? CO~ISS~ONER HASSE: No. CHAIRNAN G~DN;GHT: All right,. Then ~e']l ahead and hear it. ~ there any qt~est. tonn t. hat. ~e hav~ for Hr. Fahey? OFF]'CTAI, ~,,OURT RF, PORTF, Rfi, (':OI,I,IER C~OIU':TY, NAPI'.ES, FI,33962. COHHIBEIIONER HASBE: Only as I said. It's not going to int~rfer~ with any of o~Jr work o~]t. t. her~ ~nd it. may be b~n~fi~ial in the long r~]n. HR. PAHEY: Y~R, Commtnnion~r. Tt. ~ill not. tnt. erfere with ~hat. ~e're doing and long-term it ~ill probably be beneficial. Two other ~lements her~, tn order t.o exdavat. n a landfill or priced with mining, a permit. is necessary. Ne have such a permit; so far, those are very rare. Second]y, the demonstration ~tll al~o occ~r d~:ring the time that our s~ond s~mtnar ~lll b~ held on the 24th, so t. he people vi.tting u, for t. hat. informat. ion ~ill see this additional piece of ecD2ipment. a~; part. of t.h~lt. ~eminar, ~O~T~RTONER VOI,P~: Hr. Fahey, do T ~lnd~rnt. and thRn that thi~ company will b~ cond~t. ing t.h~r aet. ivtt. ies where w~ hav~ had our landfill mining operation, where we wer~ ~orking on t. he landfill mining? HR. FAH~: W~ will also b~ mining adjacent. t.n them. Their operat. ion will be s~parat.~ frc)m o~]rs. ~O~ISSlONER VOLPE: Ts it. jt~nt. a piece of equipment that they're-- OFPTCTAL ~.OIJR? RF,~ORTF. RR, COI,I,TER COHNTY, NAPI,E,q, F[,3.q0~2 7 ~. FAHS"f: Yes, sir. It's a ~ngle piece of equ~ent tha: pr~e~sem the material. ~here will be, in addition to that, a front-end loader to remove the eaterial and a hydraulJ~ backhoe t,o fe~d th~ machine. ~ere are a total of three p~eces of equipment. CO~SSIONER VOLPE: And presumably, Mr. Cuyler, there's no problem with -- Mr. Fahey maid we had a permit. ~ere's no problem with allowing this licenses to o~rate under our permit? MR. FAH~: No, sir, there ts not. two-week period? MR. FAHEY: And we're talking abo13t. a Yea, sir; from the 17th to r. he 31st. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: or any -- MR. FAHEY: Yes, air. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Is there any cost. involved They will pay us $10. Just for the -- MR. FAHEY: For th~ regular COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: For the privilege. MR. DORaILL: The recommendation would be for you to recognize the emergency nature of this and to authorize the limited use and ]~c,ns~ agrenm~nt with OFF~CTAb COURT REPORTERS, COt,I,TER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 G & ~ Equipment Company. COMM~88TONER HASSE: Hadam Chairman, there's nobody else to speak on this, ~o I'd ]tke t.o make a mot]on to permit this to happen on the landfill. CHAIRMAN G~DNIGH~: I hav~ a mot. ion and a ~econd. ~ there any further d~cu~ton? question. k]] ~n ~avor s~gn~y by saying aye. (A chorus of 'Ayes.') CHAIRHAN G~DN]GHT: Op~ed? (No res~n~e.) CHAIRMAN G~DNYGHT: Horton carcia~ ,~nanimou~]y. ~,,~,~__.= O!~'FTCZAL COURT REPORTERS, CO[,LTER COUNTY, NAPI,Efi, FL MR. FAHEY: Thank you, Commt~sto MR. DORRTLL,: T apprn~.tatn you giving consideration to that at this time. CHATRMAN GOODNIGHT: All right. The next. item is the Land Deve]opme. nt Cod~ public hearing. Thi~ i~ the first of two public hearings. The n~xt. p~blic bearing will be heard at what time, when, Ken? Somebody? MR. MERRILL: October 30. 33962 CHA~R!~AN C, OODNlGHT: October t. he 30th. MR. MERR~I,I~: At..5:0.5. q CHAYRMAN C~30DNYOHT: There will be no decJsionn that will I~ made tc~ay. ~ere wt]l only be dinc,)~ionn and the public hearing wi]] be c]o~ed and then any final deci~ion~ will be made on the loth or at ~hatev~r other time that the Board of County Commi~nioners decide they want to fintab hearing it, if that'n the cane. A]~o, Just a little bit of housekeeping, I have decided that ~tnce tht~ te the lent game that the Brave~ are going to play and thio board and their Jnvolvemant in boaabel1 haa gotten me triterented in baseball, we are only going to work until eight o'clock ~o that T can get home to ace the gone. Tf ~e naad to coma back and -- if we need to come back and complete thin up at another date, then we will. ~e oleo have a five minute on any apeakera, and Mr. O]liff will take the registered epeakera if you ~dnt to register. I think forme that are outaide. COMM~SBIONER VObPE: Madam Chairman, ~u~ following up on aome of your comaante, obvtoua]y th~ i~ one of the OFPTCTAU CCITT REPORTERS, COIJ,TER COUNTY, NAPT,ES, 33962 10 more important pieces of legislation that this board is going to be enacting. ! mean, this ts part of the implementation of our Growth Management Plan. ! know that the CCPC has spent a fair amount of time and so has our advisory committee. I think on Frtday evening, the last couple of Friday evenings, the CCPC has spent. ~n excess of six hours at different aspects of it. So, my only sliggestton is that fine, we']], you know, take the time we need this evening, but if this is the entire code, we need to conttnu~ it and we just need to pot ourselves on a schedule. If we're talking about the 30th of October for a final hearing? CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Well, ! guess my concern is that when ! have noticed that when this board begins to work in the evenings after we've a]] worked a]] day an(] we begin to work three and four hoists, that. we no longer begin to intake the things and I fee] ]ik- this is v,ry important and so that's th- reason why that I felt like that we needed to put a ]imitation on the thing and if we need to come back with some more public h~arings, then l fee] like we're all willing to de) it.. COURT REPORTE~R~, COI,[~IER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 COMMII{SIONER VOLPE: I agree with yo~,r comments completely, and !thtnk having a beginning time. and elldtng time maker u~ know what type of work we've got to try to get accomplt,hed trt a certain period of time. I think thai'in fine. I Just think we're all thinking along the same lines. I Just want to make sure that -- this is the first hearing and we may tn fact have to continue it just in terms of our scheduling. I don't know. Today is the 16th of October. So, we're talking about two week, from tonight for a final hearing. And so I d¢)n't know how we -- what we do, do we Jui~t continue thin hearing from {~:30 tonight until -- MR. DORRII,L: Depending on how far w~? get.. MR. CUYI.ER: You havn two options. Y¢~u can continue ton~ght's hearing or you can meet in two week. and continue that hearing if you need to. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. F~ne. MR. MERRILL: The only caveat on that, Commissioners, ~s that there ~s a transmittal deadline to the DCA of November 8th at this I~)~nt. And you know, we've pushed everything back on the schedu]e. We had a OFFTC. TAL COURT REPORTERR, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI,E.q, FI, 33962 different schedule and it was amended a number of t~me; ae you may recall, and we've pushed it all back all the way to the deadline. So, we are somewhat under the COMI~IS8IONBR VOLPB: What's the likelihood, Mr. Herrill, of getting an extension of that November ?Lb or November 8th deadline? don't do it7 MR. MERRTbb: What's going to happen if we don't know what the possibility is because we haven't inquired of that. However, yol3 know, ! suspect that t~ we did it in a reasonable time thereafter, you know, what can they do? But again, we probably want to try to come under the deadline. ~7)e [~tnt is that by the time we get something done and they want to enforme anything, we'll have already been done wtth -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, ! won't belabor that point, but I think we all understand that the mission and the difficult task that we have and the import. anc~ of what it is that we're al~ut to do and so I just suggest that maybe in advance someone notify whoever that we're trying our best to meet that deadline and please excuse us if we don't and so on and so forth and we do t. hat ]n OFF]~CTAb COURT REPORTERS, CO[,I,TER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 13 anticipation of a modest, you know, week or ten days that we may need. And it's my suggestion -- CHATRMAN GOODNIGHT: T think that one of o{~r biggest problems is the fact that we have to hold the meeting at 5:05. ! mean, we have to ho]d it after five o'clock. And ! mean, if we can hold it at nine o'clock in the morning, I'm sure that ~e could finish the thing, you know, ~ithin the time period. But I mean, after you've ~orked all day and ! know you've been at the office since at least 6:30 if not before. You know, been up since that time. ! kno~ that Nax has, and of course ! think Dick ~as out on the golf course abo~t that time, too so that he cou]d get in at least nin~ holes before he got here to the office at 9:30, ~o -- CONNI~SIONER ~ANAHAN: At the crack of da~n. COHNISSIONER VOLPE: And more importantly, those people out there have been working seven hour~ ~e]l, so ! think the point's well made. NR. NERR~LL: Certain]y as an alternative to [hat, actually continuing the hearing, you could, if need be, set up a workshop meeting that could be during the day. 14 And that -- COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: The whole thing is that we need to move on and get as far along as we can tonight. COMMISSIONER HASSE: COPfi',ITSSTONER SHANAHAN: Well, let's stop talking and We've got time between now and November 7th to get it done, Bt]l. MR. MERRILL: That's correct. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: So the f~rst item ts the review of the articles, general provisions; is that correct? MR. MERRILL: Yes. And if T may, I'll stay at my seat so I can refer to all my numerous notes. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Okay. MR. MERRILL: Thank you. General]y, a quick overview of the Land Development Code, the cede consists of over 30 different ordinances that pertain to land development in the county. If you could see the stack of ordinances back at my off~ce, ~t fills up an entire filing cabinet. It's over two feet in width. We have condensed that down wfth the help of staff and the committee. COURT REPORTERS, COI,LTER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 15 COMMISSIONER HASSE: What are you looking at now? MR. MERRILL: The overall -- CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Can you te]] us the page? MR. MERRILL: I'm just talking generally. The land develop -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Merrill, excuse me. I'm sorry. Just for the ground rules, what is -- fs this the same thing that's in this three-r~ng binder? MR. MERRILL: I will explain everything. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. MR. MERRILL: The Land Development Code that .~s ~n the three-ring binder is about 525 pages, plus or minus a few pages, including the appendices. You can see that it's gone -- we've gone quite a ways to at least streamlining the document and we believe streamlining quite a few of the land development processes that are currently undertaken. We've also gone a long way to clarifying standards and criteria as we]] as responsibilities of staff and applicants and so forth. I won't belabor too much generalized issues. I want to get right into the document and so what I'd like to do is go through article OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 16 by article and just tell you what is generally in each article and then tell you the documents that you have in addition to your three-ring binder. Article I deals with general provisions. And if you turn to the table of contents that's right at the very beginning. You can follow along w~th me. That includes the some boiler plate information about title and citation and legislative al]thor]ty and findings, purpose and ~ntent and so forth. It does have an ~nterpretat~on procedure that is set forth that w~l] be used for the entire code. It has a section on Vested R~ghts which allow -- ~t's a process that would protect currently existing Vested Rights of development and development approvals. We have incorporated your existing nonconformity section from the zoning code. That's D~vision 1.8. I have taken all of the various enforcement procedures contained in your 30 some odd ordinances and consolidated those into one enforcement procedure and that's found Jn Division 1.9. Division 1.10 talks about fees and we've taken those out of your various codes and ordinances and tried OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, Fb 33962 17 to consolidate those into one d~vis~on. We've left a number of reserved spots. And the rest of the document talks about some more boiler plate materials dealing with the items that have been incorporated into the code and those matters that have been repealed by the code and talks about an effective date and conflict with other laws and severability and so forth. Article II, which deals w~th the zoning, this ~s your new goning code. We've laid that out into a genera] provision which includes, and that's Division 2.1, which includes everything from the establishment of your Official Zoning Atlas to how those boundary lines are handled and th~ definitions of groupings of various types of districts and so forth; a lot of the provisions that apply generally to the entire zoning code. Division 2.2 is really the heart of the zoning code. Those are the districts. They lay out the purpose and intent. They lay out the p~rmJtted uses. They lay ollt the conditional uses, which are currently called provisional uses. We've changed that to be called conditional uses. And they set forth the dimensional OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 standards which include height, setback, yard requirements and so forth. Again, you can see all of the districts that are listed ~n th~s section. In addition, there are several new districts that you'll see because they were regulations that were included in your previous zoning code but they were located in other areas. They were tacked onto the old zoning code as either a supplemental district regulation or a specJal regulation. We have, I believe, properly categorized those as zoning distr~cts, so you w~]] see that you now have a court or management overlay district. You have a mobile home overlay distr~ct. You have an a~rport overlay d~str~ct. And you have a special treatment overlay district. In addition to those overlay d~stricts, you also -- we also have ~ncorporated the new h~storic and archaeological s~te designation regulations, and wh~]e those aren't necessarily an over]ay, they are a designation, which is more akin to a d~strict than it is to a special regulation. Division ~.3 deals with off-street parking and OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 19 loading. As ] understand Jr, for the most part that includes your current regulations that have recently been revised. The landscaping and buffering, you'll -- there may be a s~gnif~cant number of comments on that. Most of the issues we have resolved in that area but there are still some outstanding issues in landscaping and b~]ffering. Signs, which Js your current recently adopted sJ. gn code. And then ~..6 is your supplemental d]str~ct regulations. This is where you have -- this was part of your previous zoning code supplemental distr~ct regulations. We've tried to s~mp]ify them, eliminate a lot o~ them, take things out of there that didn't belong in there and generally tried to streamline this part of the document so that you can find your way around in that by simply referring to the abbreviated table of contents. F4nally, in Division 2.7 we have included a]] of your administration for the zoning code portion only. So we have amendment procedures, which are rezon~ngs. We have PUD procedures. We have conditional use procedures. We have variance procedures. And then we have the 33962 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 2O building perm]t comp]iance and affordab]e ho,sJ ng densJ ty bonus all included in this section. If there are future procedures that this board determines are appropriate, those can be added Jn the future by staff and the board. One thing I might add is with regard to conditional uses and PUD's, those amendment procedures refer back to the rezoning amendments since they are a very similar process, so tbere Js an interrelationship between those three procedures. Article III includes development requirements. These are everything from subdivisions to S~te Development Plans, explosives, well construction, soil erosion, excavation, Environmental Impact Statement, all of your environmental regulations and s¢> c)n. And there are a total of ~5 divisions at this point. We've also included adequate public facilities in here. A total of 15 different subject matters in here. Each one of these d~visions is set up on the same format. It follows the exact same format whereby the first section is title and citation. The second section is purpose. The third section Js applicability. And Jf OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 2] there is exemptions for that, the next section would be exemptions. And then we go through the general requirements, review procedures, and finally the -- excuse me, the-- and then the standards. Excuse me. So we follow that same format throughol~t this section or this Article III. Each d~visJon follows the exact same format, and that should lead to more familiarity not only to the code user but also to this board and staff. We have so many different ordinances in here. We have to try and find a common format so we can follow that through every time and know where to find things. Article IV is -- we won't be dealing w~th anything w~th regard to Article IV tonight or in the future. It merely is a cross-reference to your existing impact fee ordinances. Ultimately I am told staff would like to include your ~ewly adopted impact fee or newly revised ~mpact fee ordinances into the code, but at th~s point we've merely made cross-reference to your existing regulations. So those will not be discussed tonSght or on the 30th. Division 5 $s one location for all dec]s].ono-making OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 22 and administrative bodies. It includes everyone from the ?~Board of County Commissioners and the Planning Commission to the various staff departments and other types of boards that are involved in Land Development Code decisions. And again, those are set up generally on the same format. as well where we have set. up a creation power authority and jurisdiction membership, organization and powers and duties. Finally, Article VI, which is also a very important :'? part of the Land Development Code, are the definitions. Division 6.1 are rules of construction. Now, when I'm saying "rules of construction," I don't mean rules of building construction. I mean, rules of interpretation type construction. And that would include how certain words are interpreted and so forth. In 6.2 we talk about abbreviations, some of the o~ommon abbreviations that aro. used. And then in 6.3 we set forth a]] of the definitJc)ns from all of your ordinances as we have revised them and any new definitions that we have included in alphabetical order. After each one of the definitions, if they apply only or primarily to a particular section or division, we OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,T,TER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 23 have included that section or d~vision in brackets ~i'afterwards so that it is more readily user [riendly in ~.that~/~egard.' Again, I know this seems like a tremendously large document, but if you look, I would have brought them all but it was too much to carry. If you could see how much we've condensed into this decrement, it is a tremendous saving of not only paper but I think of process and narrative and so forth. We really did have over two feet of documents that have been compiled into this one document. .... In addit~on, as far as the process goes, I wanted to Just mention brtef]y that the development task force or the Land Development Code Task Force that was appointed by tbts board met over 70 times in ass/sting t~s in revising and developing this document and adding and subtracting and negotiating and compromising and so forth. In addition, we've had uncountable number of staff meetings and consultant meetings and we've had several Commission hearings. Planning Commiss~on workshops as we].l as Planning However, the Planning Commission ~{'i'OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 hearing that we have recently had, they were not able to -- we were not able to finish up. We went ]ate into the night on Friday Dight. I don't think we got out until about 11:30 this past Friday night. There are a coup]e of unanswered issues that we need to still resolve, and we have set the last and final Planning Commission Public Hearing for a recommendation to this board for Monday, this coming Monday, the 21st. So, I am anticipating a recommendation from that board or from the Planning Commission to this board for your final public hearing. With regard to the documents outside of this notebook that you have, I'd like Martha Howe]] to explain that since she was primarily responsible for putting those together. I do -- we]], why don't I just leave that to you then w~thout even trying to go into that. MS. HOWELL: For the record, Martha Howe]], Assistant County Attorney. The blue side sheets that y~u've received, the packet -- for the public, the rest of the side sheets now. 33962 wi]l be here at about quarter to 6:00. There's a stack 24 [i??.~ /i:~, 'of about 90 pages. They're being copied right :~3.%,~i,i?:>/: .,!. · OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 25 The blue side sheets represent all of the s~de sheets that w.re items either of clarification or correction that staff had to put together after the code was produced, the final version of the code that's ~n your binder. They also consist of items that were previously in d~sagreement as of the workshop times between staff and the committee and they've worked out language that was amenable to both staff and the committee. That's what these blue side sheets represent. The Planning Commission has gone over all of the side sheets and in cases where the Planning Commission directed staff to make a s~bstantive change, the original side sheet is in your packet and there wi].] be a second one with CCPC directed below the header staff side sheet to show you that there are changes Jn the language that the Planning Commission wished to be made. The next time you meet or after the 21st when the CCPC takes its final action on the side sheets, each of your s~de sheets will be replaced to read what action the Planning Commission took on that side sheet. It will say Planning Commission recommended or just approved. It OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COl.,bIER COUNTY, NAPLES, Fb 33962 26 might be better if you 1ook at them J f you have any questions about what you have ~n front of you. There are some white s]de sheets. They are the committee sade sheets. And Bill Merrill has developed two separate white s~de sheets on two loose pages numbered 1.5.2.~ and 1.5.3. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Where do those go? MR. MERRILL: They're replacement language for certain provisions. One thing I want -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is that dup]JcatJve of something that's in here? MR. MERRILL: No. These are new provisions that we've been working on. One thing I wanted to add to that, we apo].og~ze for the lateness ~n getting these to you and the public. We just finished our -- as you know, the Planning Cornmiss|on workshop takes a tremendous amount of time to reproduce these and get them in order and so on so we've really only had three or four days to do that, plus we're constantly in working out new language with various members of the public where they've brought a problem to OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER CO[INTY, NAPI,ES, 33962 27 our attention. We want to try and be as responsive as possible and get that down for the next meeting. That particularly resulted Jn the two white side sheets that you have as well as some of the other blue si. de sheets. So it's a constant process that we're working on inbetween each hearing, so it's not like we waited until the last minute to suddenly do everything. It just takes a lot of time. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: These commi. ttee side sheets that have a staple on them, -- MR. MERRILL: Yes. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- is that -- what does that represent? MS. HOWELL: Those are the original side sheets of the committee. What those were at workshop time are the items that staff and the committee still disagreed upon and for the most part those items are all still in contention; that is, the committee wishes for the language on those s~de sheets to be ~nc]l]ded in the code and staff wishes for the existing language ~n the code to stay as Jt is. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So these are committee s~de OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI, ES, F[. 33962 2~ sheets but there's a disagreement or there's an issue as between staff and the committee as to these. MS. HOWELL: Right. MR. MERRILL: The blue side sheets indicate that there -- for the most part, that there's e~ther ~greement w~th the staff and the committee or the Planning Commission made a directire that we shou]d go ahead and include them. MS. NOWELL: Also, at the back of the packet of committee s~de sheets for -- I d~dn't want to have so many pieces of paper floating around. There's one called Citizen's Petition. A gentleman came forward Friday night with a side sheet and the Planning Commission approved it pending staff review, so I've ~nc]uded that as a side sheet for your review. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I'm real happy you didn't want to give us too many pieces of paper. MS. HOWELL: I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: When we get to the substance of that, I just comment that has to do w~th signs. MS. HOWELL: Right. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And we've just been through OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 29 that sign ordinance and we've had a couple of debates on signs both before, after -- we debated the sign ordinance. And so I'm a litt]e hesitant at this particular point in time to, to get into another amendment to that sign ordinance. MR. CUYLER: I assume this is still under review and that the board will be given some information. MS. HOWELL: Right. I think Mr. Merrill mentioned on Friday night that the sign ordinance wasn't really under review, that you had just gone over it, but the Planning Commission wished to include th~s as a side sheet anyway. MR. MERRILL: They asked us to submit everything that was presented and approved by them or that was submitted by citizens to you so that you could make that decision. What I would suggest in going through this is for the most part we don't have -- Martha, am I correct, we don't have any -- staff at least and I don't have any contentions with regard to any of the sheets in the blue, but if you would like us to, we can go through the sheets that are in blue. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COl,bIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 3O We certainly want to have some time to open it up to the public. I can tell you, though, if we go through every one of the blue sheets we'll be here far beyond any deadlines that anyone has set. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I think what I'd like to see is any disagreement between staff and the committee and -- MR. MERRILL: Then any new language. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: And then any new language that need to be moved into it and then that will give each o~]e of us the opportunity on our own time to review the bible sheets and then if there's something that we want to discuss on them, we can bring that back at our next meeting. MR. MERRILL: Fine. I think that would be very helpful from our perspective. COMMISSIONER HASSE: The public will have input at the next meeting, also? MR. MERRILL: Certainly. Or at th~.s one if we finish lip. I don't think that -- CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: We'll have the chance to have public input this time, also. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 31 MR. MERRILL: Quite honest]y, at least at the Planning Commission -- I don't want to speak for the group that's here. There weren't a tremendous number of issues. There may be a lot of speakers, but there aren't a lot of issues remaining at ]east between the staff and the committee. So what I'll do ~s I'll address those first and then maybe after that we can go and then the new language and then we can go ahead and open that up to the public if that's your pleasure. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: COMMISSIONER HASSE: properly -- MR. MERRILL: That's fine. Just make sure you orient I'll do my best. COMMISSIONER HASBE: around. MR. MERRILL: questions, let me know. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- so we're not out fumbling And certainly ~f you have any Mr. Merrill, what is this last piece of paper that I have that's presentation schedule and it's Collier County Land Development Code, an executive summary and there's an ordinance here. MR. CUYLER: This is your agenda for tonight. The OFFiCiAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 32 executive summary goes with the item you just did, I believe. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: MR. MERRILL: I haven't seen that. the adoption ordinance. about that tonight. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: This ordinance, is this -- Apparently it's We won't necessarily be talking But T need to hold onto it. MR. CUYLER: Yeah. MR. MERRILL: This will ultimately be the ordinance So what stack are you going to that adopts this whole Land Development Code and appendices thereto. COMMIMSIONER HAMSE: start on now? MR. MERRILL: I'll go through that. I have one other preliminary comment. One thing I also want to make sure everyone understands is that along with this Land Development Code, you are adopting a new Official Zoning Atlas. As a result of some changes Jn the names of districts and changes in standards, we felt that it was prudent to go ahead and adopt the new Official Zoning Atlas and so that is something that is also avai. lable to OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 33 the public and it has been available to the public and jt will be included as well in the adoption ordinance. 8o I wanted to make that clear as we]]. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Have we got it here? MR. MERRILL: The Official Zoning Atlas is here, but you don't have it in your packet. COMMISSIONER HASBE: That's what I'm talking about. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Merrill, now what are these, the yellow and the green sheets? MR. MERRILL: green sheets? MS. HOWELL: have to look at them. MR. MADAJEWSKI: Martha, what are the yellow and the They would be old side sheets. I'd For the record, John MadajewskJ, Project Review Services Manager. I provided those to the board. The yellow sheet is a combined MPO staff side sheet relating to sidewalks, which Js the one p~nk staff side sheet we had after the workshops and subdivision. The green sheets, there are two sheets of minor clarification on various substantial changes, words, cites, things like that. And then there's a green sheet from the Planning Commiss~on that relates to some ~.: ..' OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLI,IER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI., 33962 34 additional language on qualifications for ElS's that I will present when we get to Article III. MR. MERRILL: The first th~ng I'd ]Jke to go through are the white sheets, and you have two separate white sheets. Each of those are new language that I have developed with staff, and we just finished that up today. There should be a number of those available for the audience. I think we made over 50 cop~es. Has the commission received those as we]]? Okay. 80 you should have two separate white sheets and then the committee white sheets, which ~s a stapled package. think what we should do ~s just go through th~s ~n order. The first provis~on where the committee and staff has yet to reach a full -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: you, and you can tell me. article by article and let's put one article behind us rather than just going through it? Lead us through ~t and say there's nothing there and then I can go to the next article and I']] know what article and what provision and what section I'm dealing with. Mr. Merrill, let me suggest to Can you take us through this OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 35 MR. MERRILL: With regard to Article I, the only area at this point that I recall that we have any issues outstanding is w~th regard to Division 1.5 on page 1-6, specifically under 1.5.2, exceptions. There has been a lot of -- a tremendous amount of discussion and a number of proposals submitted wlth regard to adding additional language that will accept various types of development orders from the provisions of this code. The most recent one that I have received, which I don't believe you've received and maybe Bruce Anderson w~11 be presenting this later, deals -- is very similar to our language. I think that I've come up with some language that w~]l make it satisfactory to staff. That is on the page, single free-standing page that is Section 1.5.2.2. COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's a separate sheet. MR. MERRILL: It'~ a separate white sheet and jt says page 1-6, Sect]on ].5.2.2. What I'd'like to do is just go through the key provisions of this section to explain this, and I need to do this in the context of the overall Division 1.5. Generally, ilnder ].5, app]Jcabj]~ty, this code is OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 36 applicable to all development and property and ]and in Collier County and it's very specific as to what it applies and it's very broad in ~ts application. We also indicate that as far as its relationship to the Growth Management Plan, that the Growth Management Plan prevails in the event of any conflict. This is necessary for, in my opinion, for any challenges. We've had challenges of Land Development Regulations and we want to make sure that they are fully consistent with your Growth Management Plan. Section 1.5.2, however, provides exceptions.. And maybe you can call me gun-shy or whatever, but we, as you know, have been through quite a b~t of challenge and l~tigat~on with regard to exceptions to several other ordinances that this board has adopted and that I guess the rule is that the general provisions don't seem to usually be challenged. It's the exceptions to the rule that always seem to be challenged. So I'm trying to be very careful and cautious here, yet at the same time we're trying to take into account the concerns of the development community as far as t~me and money that has already been spent. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, F[, 33962 37 80 under 1.5.2, after working through this w~th staff and getting input in writing from Mr. Anderson and so forth, I believe that 1.5.2.2 should resolve most of the issues. What we're suggesting here ~s that the provisions of this code will not affect the types, densities and intensities of land use or the yard or landscape buffer widths for three types of development orders. So in other words, we're in essence saying the code will not affect the density, intensity or type of ]and use or the yard or landscape buffer requirements, which is usually area that moves buildings around on the ]and. The reason why we want to do this %s we want to try to keep those buildings that are shown on plans where they are. We don't want to require them to have to move them around. So the three types of development orders that we are considering here are fine] subdivision plats and final improvement plan. That's one type of development order. They go hand in hand. The second type ~s a f~na] S~te Development Plan. And the third type, and this was one of the primary concerns as I understand it from Bruce OFFICIA[~ COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPL, E,q, FL 33962 38 Anderson, the third type is a phased S~te Development Plan that has been approved for at least one final Site Development Plan within that phase. Or excuse me, within that overall master plan. So, again, we're basically saying the provisions of this code will not affect these types of issues or these three types of development orders if each of the development orders meets each of these three requirements that I've listed down here. And I know it's relatively complicated, but this is a very legally touchy issue as well as we want to also try to make it as practical as possible under the law. So if these, one of these three types of development orders was lawfully issued pr~or to the effective date of this code, which presumably will sometime around November 8th or October 30th, and it is effective, in other words it is effective when the actSon is requested or when the approval is requested, whatever their applicant is seeking, and it has not commenced development of any kind as of the effective date of this code, in other words it's an outstanding final subdivision plat that ~s st~]] Jn effect or 5t's an OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLTER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 39 outstanding final Site Development Plan that is still Jn effect or it's an outstanding, unbu~lt phased Site Development Plan that has had at least one final Site Development Plan that has already been approved. If it meets all of the cri. ter~a in this section, then this code will not affect the types, densities and intensities of land uses and the yard and landscaping buffering width,. The idea is that they will not have to go back ~n and change those permits. They can move on from there. They can move forward with whatever thei. r next permit ~s or they can move forward with construction or whatever the next required step is. AGain, I haven't had any comments on this from the public and I suspect we wJll tonight, but we've been trying to work this back and forth and St Js a very complicated legal issue that we're trying to wrestle with, and quite honestly I fee] most comfortable by not p~vidinG the exception. Yet on the other hand I know practically speaking we need to have some type of exception as far as money and time goes. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Are yol~ saying no exception or OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 4O you Just have some reservations about this particular exceptSon? MR. MERRILL: I have reservations about almost all the exceptions after what we've faced already Jn these legal challenges. COMMISSIONER HABBE: By the same token, if we get out ~nto the real world, -- MR. MERRILL: That's exactly my point. COMMISSIONER HASSE: -- why you've got to have exceptions. MR. MERRILL: I believe that Section 1.5.2.2 as currently drafted that's before you now should pass muster under the requirements of Chapter 163 as they apply to Land Development Regulations. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Cou]d I ask, most of these developments orders have t~me limitations on them. MR. MERRILL: No, most of them don't and that's one of the problems we've run into. Current]y, most of your development orders do not include time limitations. Your SDP's certainly do not. Your final subdivision plats certainly do not. Your rezonings do not. Some of your PUD's do, I believe. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,LIER COUNTY, NAPLES, Fl., 33962 4~ COMMISSIONER HASSE: Very few. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: There are some. MR. MERRILL: And that's another proposal that we'll be getting to in a little bit. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Building permits do. .MR. MERRILL: Building permits do. I believe it's six months with a six-month extension. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So are you treatJ. ng building permits that have a t~me limitation on them d~fferent]y than the others? MR. MERRILL: Yes, we are. And that is in agreement and that is incli]ded ~n Section 1.5.2.1, which is in your book. So we do cover building permits, and that's a separate issue. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Now, on these other development orders, there are no t~me ]imftat]ons. We've talked at different times about some sunset provisions. Do the sunset provisions have any app]fcatJon Jf they're adopted to any of these development orders? MR. MERRILL: They certainly w~]] ~f -- I mean, it depends on the board's pleasure, and I need to lay this out. Legal]y, you aren't required to have a sunset OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 42 provision on rezonJngs or on some of these other development orders; however, when you -- and I'm saying generally speaking a local government doesn't. However, you adopted your Growth Management Plan which required a five-year time limit for rezonings. Your five-year time limit requires the zoning if it's not built to automatJca]]y revert to the previous zoning category. I do not believe that that ~s 100 percent legal. Mowever, we can come as close as possible to that and still be legal. In other words, I think that rather than automatically reverting, and your county attorney has supported me in this issue and has done some research on his own on this, rather than automatically reverting, you would need to have another public hearing, I believe, and fezone that back or reconsider i.t or whatever to move it back to the old zoning d~str~ct. Now, but I do believe that under your Comprehensive Plan we probably need to stick as close to the f~ve years as possible. That is something that we still need to include ~n this code and it's not currently in here. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But we in the past have had -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 43 you know, I understand the realities of the s~tuatJon. But in the past, and as always we're going to hear about a specific exception and it may be unfair in a particular circumstance, but I'm Just -- there are instances that I have seen as I've sat here where we've got some Site Development Plans that have been out there for [our, five, six years and, you know, a lot of money was spent by someone earlier on in the process. And since the time, you know, there have been some significant changes ~n our ordinances. And ? just -- obvj. ously this is going to perpetuate that type of a situation. MR. MERRILL: Well, ft won't because I haven't gone to the next section regarding t~me limits, and that's going to be under Section 1.5.3 which is the next section you have and then I']l be referring you to a couple other sections down the road in Article II and Article III where there are time ]~m~ts placed on each of those different development orders that you mentioned. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's what I asked and you sa~d there were no time lim~tations. MR. MERRILL: I thought you were talking -- I'm sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you were talking OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COIoLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 '--4 44 about in this section. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Bome. No, but we are going to have MR. MERRILL: Yes, you will. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Then just one other q?estion. You made a distinction between a final subdivision plat and actually a record plat. Is there a reason for doing that? MR. MERRILL: Yes. We made it just a final subdivision plat because that's when you have take~] your action and that, you know,' whether or not it's recorded or not will really depend on the ~mprovement plans and how far along they are on that. So, we decided to just make J°t the approval rather than the recordation, which Cs actually a simpler stapdard for the development community to meet, but I think it's an easier standard administratively as well. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Does that include PUD's also? MR. MERRILL: No, it does not. This does not include PUD's. However, and I'm glad you bring that up, and I'll be Getting to that in a little bit, under the repealer clause we do have language that does not repeal OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 45 existing PUD's. The PUD's will continue on as they are right now. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Forever. MR. MERRILL: No, we are -- and I']] get to that as well. We will have a five -- we are proposing -- currently it says six, but we need to reduce that to five years, a five-year time limit wherein they need to then come back into the board and be re-evaluated. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Merrill, if I were to ask someone how many outstanding final subdivision plats and other similar types of development orders there are, how many are we talking about, a hundred, or are we talking about five thousand? MR. MERRILL: No. From the -- well, I don't know how many are out there total. I can te]] you how many are in the process right now, so these are really the more recent ones. As far as the ones that are sitting out there, I'm sure there are a significant amount more. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What is -- you're going to tell me what you mean by "significant." MR. MERRILL: Well, I don't know the number. Does anyone know the number? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 46 As far as -- let me tell you first the ones that are in the approval process right now that are -- there are ~13 total SDP's that are in -- that have not received final approval but that are in the process r~ght now. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: How many, B~I], 1307 MR. MERRILL: A hundred COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: -- one one three. One one three. MR. MERRII,L: And that covers a span from 1.989 to present, or actually to ~0 -- October 16, 1991. MR. MADAJEWSKI: The subdivision plats are going to be very rough and we addressed some of that language today because we have several older subdivisions, specifically Golden Gate Estates, areas of Golden Gate City, Marco Island, where platting was done way in advance of the county subdivision regulations Jn ~976. And I think Bill ~s Going to be proposing some language that would deal with those older subdivisions. Out of the other projects, we have approxJmate]y 31 subdivisions that are Jn the review construction phases right now. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So those are final subdivision OFFICIAL CO RT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 47 MR. MADAJEWSKI: Yes. COMMISSIONER HASSE: How many, 33? MR. MADAJEWSKI: Thirty-one. MR. MERRILL: Those are final or preliminary or -- MR. MADAJEWSKI: They are Jn the process. They're either out under construction doing something or they're in the review process. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: curiosity, how many units are represented on those? MR. MADAJEWSKI: No. There's no real direct comparison because ~t could be the whole subdivision. It could only be a phase of the subdivision. It really depends on how far the developer wants to go. MR. MERRILL: I'm going to your other guestion as to what's out there right now. I don't know how many subdivisions or how many s~te development, but the only thing that I can recall up from my memory is that there are well over 100,000 permitted but unbuilt dwelling units in th~s county. Those may be single dwe]lfng units. They may be in a subdivision or a DRI, but those are the permitted but unbuf]t and I recall this from our ZRO days and there are approximately 4,000 acres of Does anybody know, just out of OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, CObblER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 48 commercial that is permitted and unbuilt. I don't -- again, I don't know how that's classified, though, whether it's SDP, subdivision, DRI's and so forth. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I just don't want to get the point where, you know, there's that old saying the more things change the more they stay the same. MR. MERRILL: Kind of like the ZRO days, right? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: COMMISSIONER HASSE: horrible, you know that. MR. MERRILL: That's true. Yeah. Sometimes that's not so I understand. I guess before we move onto the next section, I wanted -- if there's any questions from the board with regard to 1.5.2.2, if there's any question as to understanding it, I'd be happy to answer those. COMMISSIONER HASSE: What are you looking at? MR. MERRILL: On Section -- the one we just talked about, Section 1.5.2.2. The separate white sleet. Okay. If it's your pleasure, I'd l]ke to move onto the next single white sheet, which Js Section ~.5.3. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Can I just -- I won't belabor OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 49 th~s. they're talking about landscape and buffering. section only talks about landscape buffering. On th~s -- someone submitted something to me and This I mean, there may be some other types of buffering besides landscape buffering that may be shown, but only landscape buffering is shown. MR. MERRILL: Working through this w~th staff, the terminology that they wanted to use and that T agree with is landscape buffer width. That is a term of art in the code and ~t is the w~dth, whether it's ten feet, five feet, twenty inet that is required. The idea is that that's the w~dth, you know, you may require more trees ~n that area. That won't require you to move around buildings or hoi~ses, but a width may. So we didn't want to -- we wanted to -- we wanted the code not to affect the width of the landscape buffer. COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: Okay. MR. MERRILL: Excuse me. Before I go on to this next single sheet, I just would like to mention I did receive a section or a provision from Bruce Anderson through Martha Howell today just when I arrived and that was some alternative language. I'm hoping that this new OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,I,TER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 5O language that I've come up with will satisfy his concerns, and I think they will based on my discussions with Oohn Madajewski. And in addition, the first page of the -- or the first two pages of the committee sade sheets, this packet of white that is stapled, those both deal with the same section, Section 1.5.2. They are broader. Both of these provisions are much broader than I can support, but I think that we had moved on past these two alternatives into something more in line with what I have now based on our last Planning Commission hearing. And in fact, the Planning Commission did recommend something similar to this language at their last hearing. Okay. I just wanted to point that out in fairness so you'll know there are a number of provisions flying around with regard to this same exemption i~sue or exception issue. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Bill, what you're recommending is this one sheet replace the f~rst two on the committee side sheets? MR. MERRILL: Yes, and it would be added to what's already in there. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLI,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 51 COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Right. MR. MERRILL: That ~s correct. Moving on into the next single white sheet, which is page 1-6, in the code ~t would be a new provision, 1.5.3, and it's entitled, "Time Limits on Previously Approved Development Orders and Non-conforming Signs." Again, this goes to part of the issue and I need to talk about several other sections just by reference without going into them at this point. We'll go into them later. Under th~s current code, the Site Development Plans.have a two-year period. Those are ~n your current regulations. It's not a new provision that we're adding. Those are in your current regu]at~oDs, but they haven't been enforced for years. So S~te Development Plans under this code and ~nder your old code are l~mited to two years before there's some commencement of construction. That may be found in Section - just for cross-reference, and we'll come to th~s later - 2.7.2.12, and I don't have a page reference right here. With regard to PUD's, the current language that has been agreed upon allows for six years for a PUP. We -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,LIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 52 in my opinion, we will need to reduce that to five years after rereviewing the Growth Management Plan because the Growth Management Plan puts a ]imitation of five years on rezonings. With regard to rezonings that are not PUP's, we do not have any time limits in the code at this point and we will need to revisit that based on what is in your current Growth Management Plan. We w~l] need to have a five-year time period on that, and that's something that we -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Is that going to Japact a lot of the people Jn outlying districts such as the Estates? MR. MERRILL: We'll have to look at that, and quite honestly we haven't go into that great of detail. Ken Baginski has indicated to me that there is a provision ~n the blue sheets. What section is that? We]], in any event, we'll come back to that, but there is a section in the blue sheets that deals with the five-year time limit for rezoning as well. Then finally, with regard to subdi. vision plats, there's a three-year time ]JmJt for commencement of the infrastructure improvements which is something that is OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 53 currently in your existing regulations and we've carried over into your new regulations. So again, we're looking at -- for all new development orders that come through for final subdivision plats you have to have -- within three years, build your -- commence your infrastructure to a certaJn point. For PUD's, you have to do something within five years. For rezonings, you have to do something within five year, s and for site developments you have to do something within two years. We'll -- I d~dn't want to get into all the detail on each one of those yet. MR. MADAJEWSKI: I just wanted to clarify the point on the subdivision. It's not that you have to commence, you have to complete. You have to initiate and complete within three years based on the construction and maintenance agreement the developer enters into with the board. MR. MERRILL: For that phase. MR. MADAJEWSKI: For that particular phase. MR. MERRILL: It's only for that phase, not for the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLI.,TER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 54 entire subdivision if it's a multiphase. So, keeping all that in mind that we have these sunset provisions either in your existing regulations and carrying forward into here or new regulations, as in the case of rezonings, this next provision bas4cal]y. says that the time limits should apply retroactively to things that are outstanding. In other words, if there is an SDP that has been out there for five years, then it shouldn't be able to continue on ad ~nfinitum. That would give it an unfair advantage as against the new SDP's that are coming out that only have a two-year period. So what we're proposing is that -- and this Js in three parts. First of all, that any time limits that are contained in an existing development order will continue to run and will not be enlarged or expanded or stayed by the adoption of this code. That's the first point. And that's the first sentence. The second sentence is that if this code provides for a shorter or more restrictive time period than what is currently in that development order, then the shorter or more restrictive time period of this code will apply. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, CO1,10IER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 55 And then the third -- and that ~s retroactively. That's the retroactive portion I'm talking about. The third point is although it applies retroactive]y, say that SDP's been out there for ~ive years, we aren't saying well now it doesn't exist at a]] because you've exceeded the two years. We're saying the two years will apply as of the date of adoption of th~s code. Let me give you an example, because it's a difficult issue. If you have an SDP that's been out there ~or five years with no t~me l~m~ts in the development order, which is the case for almost all of them, ~f not all of them, that SD -- if you adopt this language in this code, that SDP then as of the date of this code adoption w~11 have two years additional to get where it needs to be. After that two years, then ~t will sunset. Any future SDP, l~kewise, will sunset two years from the date of ~ts approval if you haven't -- I believe is it commence construction, Ken? unless you've commenced construction. COMMISSIONER HASSE: How can you -- do they have any alternative to that ~n the event that they are OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, CO~,LIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 56 looking for further extensions? MR. MERRILL: Yes. The way that we actually have it set up is that it goes to the board and the board can either grant -- it has a number of alternatives that we'll get into. But I guess the concept that I want to first talk about in 1.5.3 before we get into each of the time limits is this idea is that you're making the old permits -- you're putting them on equal footing with the new permits rather than allowing them to continue ad in[in]rum. I think it's a crucial point. It's certainly a policy issue. It's not something that is legally required. It just seemed to make sense, and I think ~t would be good practice so that you don't get ~nto a position where you have a lot of old, old permits s~tting out there without the ability to continue on w4th the new permits. COMMISSIONER VObPE: It also seems fair. MR. MERRILL: That's -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I mean, you didn't mention that, but it does seem fair and puts everybody on an equal footing. MR. MERRILL: It does seem fair. We've made one OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 57 exception to this, and that is on the last sentence of this and it's set off in a separate paragraph under 1.5.3. COMMISSIONER HASSE: What sheet? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The same one. MR. MERRILL: The same sheet. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: 1.5.3. MR. MERRILL: It says, "This subsection shall not apply to final subdivision plats approved prior to February 17, 1976." That's the date of adoption of your old subdivis~on code. We wanted to put this in so that Marco Shores and Golden Gate are not affected by this provision. They will continue on ad infinitum until people develop them. There are a lot of reasons for that. Primarily because they've just been there forever and they have a lot of reasons. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, Golden Gate Estates particularly doesn't have one subdivision in Jr. MR. MERRILL: That's correct. It's just a very large area, and I th~nk we'd run into a lot of problems in that area if we try to start regulating those as to OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLI,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 58 time. Those two areas in particular is what we -- there may be some others, but those two are the two areas we had in mind parttcu]ar]y. COMMISSIONER HASSE: want you to know that. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Shores -- MR. MERRILL: At that time, I move. Mr. Merrill, on Marco believe it was Marco Shores. Isn't that a DRI? Okay. Can I ask -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: MR. MERRILL: Yes. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: T just MR. MERRILl,: But it's also a subdivision. wanted to make it clear. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Why have you put non-conforming signs under tbJs provision? COMMISSIONER HASSE: I don't understand that either. MR. MERRILL: Well, it doesn't have to go in provision other than that there's a provision in your sign code that allows for amortization of non-conforming signs. It's not really a development order. That's the only thing that has time limits that's not a development We just OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 59 order, so we had to -- ~t's k~nd of odd to have ~t in there, but it -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I don't think it should go there. MR. MERRILL: Well, we could do a separate provision on that and put it in the s~gn code, certainly. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Makes sense to me. MR. MERRILL: But again, keep in m~nd that Article I deals w~th the whole code so we were being all ~nclusive ~n Article I, but we can certainly take that out and put it ~nto the s~gn code and that wi.]] clean this up a little b~t and just talk about development orders and that's no problem. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: As an alternative -- these are the general provisions. Why don't you just add 1.5.4 and do signs rather than -- MR. MERRILL: That's what we'll do. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You could leave ~t r~ght there, but I mean, it's r~ght ~n the middle of that sentence and ~t doesn't make sense at a]]. MR. MERRILL: Okay. We'll do that ~f the board accepts this t~pe of language and th~s concept. Then we OFFICIAI~ COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 60 will certainly take that into account and do that. \ That's no problem whatsoever. So again, the idea is if the board approves th~s, that the old development orders are on the same footing for the fairness reasons and for a]] the other reasons that we've talked about as any new ones that are coming out of the hopper. What I'd like to do -- well, what I'll do then later rather than talking about it now about each individual time limit on development orders, we'll go, do those in order of the code so that we can finish up Article I. The only other provision in Article I that I just wanted to point out to you, and there are a number of other things. COMMISSIONER HASSE: In the big book now? MR. MERRILL: In the b~g book. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The big book. MR. MERRILL: Is in Division ].22 regarding repealer. And you'll also find this somewhere ~n here. Th~s was also something that is ~n -- ~t's the last page of the Article I blue sheets. It's called repealer. I OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 6l don't we've :you need to have that in front of you, thi rev'~ed the language down at the very bottom but dealing wi~"~h zoning. We wanted to make sure that it was very clea':.~~that PUD's, the PUP rezonings are not being changed b~the adoption of this code. As far as the PUP ordinance and the PUP atlas change, those will not be changed. Of course, they will come under the new time limits if you approve th~s retroactive time limit language. But the PUD -- we did revise that language somewhat, just to make sure that it was clear that PUD, a valid PUD ordinance that Js effective immediately prior to the effective date ¢)f this code will not be repealed. Everything else in the Zoning Atlas will be repealed and a new one wt]] be adopted. In many cases, it's going to be duplicative of your existing Zoning Atlas. That's all the matters that I wanted to point out to you with regard to Article I at this point. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer those. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Just one quick question. As the laws that are being incorporated by reference, are OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,I,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 62 those going to be an appendix or appendices to the code or not? MR. MERRILL: At this point, we don't intend to have those as an appendices. We do have a]] the appendices to the code already attached. There's only three of them and they're relatively small. They primarily deal with forms and so forth. Most of these that are being incorporated by reference are building code type of ordinances and so we do not intend to attach those. They could be appended. I don't know how thick they are, but I think you actually -- don't you reference the Southern Standard Building Code? And that would probably become a document twice as thick as this. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, the only -- I don't know where those are to be found. I was looking for the Southern Building Code the other day, Appendix J, and it's a p~ob]em trying to find ~t, unless you're a commissioner who can call Ken Bag~nsk~ and ask for it. But for the average person, I mean, it's hard to f~nd ~t, so I'm Just trying to make things easy to use. To make this user friendly, ~t seems to me we ought to try OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 63 someplace -- people are going to be able to buy this code. MR. MERRILL: It may be best then that wherever this is located maybe they should be able to buy those other codes as well. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. MR. MERRILL: And that's something that staff can certainly work out with the County Manager's Office. Any questions on Article I? (No response.) MR. MERRILL: Would you like me to go through Article II at this point? COMMISSIONER HASSE: We]], if you're going to move, you may as well move. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: What about public input as you go through these articles? MR. MERRILL: Okay. Do you want it on each article by article? We can do it either way. We did that at the Planning Commission and it seemed it work out pretty well. Whichever you choose. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: That's fine. MR. CUYLER: Does the public have the articles OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLI,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 64 marked down on their -- MR. OLLIFF: In most cases. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Then you can call the ffrst speaker on Article I. MR. OLLIFF: First speaker I have on Article Linda Lawson. MR. CUYLER: Linda's waiting until later. MR. OLLIFF: Okay. MR. CUYLER: Call Mr. Richards. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Who's the next speaker? MR. OLLIFF: Next speaker is Stefan Johansen. (No response.) COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Why don't we just ask is there anyone who has comments on Article I? Mr. Richardson? MR. RICHARDSON: Madam Chairman and Members of the Commission, Dwight Richardson. I was one of the citizen at large members on the Unified Land Development Code Committee. ADd I just want to make a pitch for a s]~gbt modif~cation of what's being proposed by the consultant relative to this exception issue on Article I, ].5.2. Just so we're clear, what this represents are projects that are in the pipeline. And there are quite a OFFICIAb COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 number of them as was evidenced here. My concern ts that a number of the changes within the code throughout affect admintstratfve procedures. They affect the way we approach things both from the public as well as from the staff's standpoint. They affect things that are in the ground. And they also affect the way these projects are going to look, and that's where the landscaping and buffering section comes in. We'll be talking about 2.4 a ]~tt]e bit later on. I want to make sure that we don't let get by some of the improvements that have been so hard fought for and worked into this Division 2.4 that we can lose it as th~s language is presently put together. We can lose Jt on 113 SDP's and 31 subdivisions. We'll not have the benefit of the upgraded plant mater~a], standards and sizes. We will have lost the new section on ~rrigation, which is very important to keep that plant material alive, and we'll have lost a very important tool that staff needs to make sure that the plant mater~a] lasts at least a year, and that's a bonding requirement for landscape which we've never had before. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,IJIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 66 I would propose for Four further consideration when you get to Four decision time that the language be modified that in each of these development orders that have gained this approval as in this present language, that they be given something in the order of an additional 60 days past the adoption of this code to come back to staff with a revised landscape plan to have Jt submitted and approved to include the irrigation, the bonding and the upgraded plant material. I agree that changing the buffer sizes and moving buildings around is unreasonable, but I th~nk ~t's eminently reasonable for us to get these new projects that are in the pipeline to at ]east adhere to a modicum of the changes that we've tried to put forth. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, would that impact the cost of the contract or anything? MR. RICHARDSON: Absolutely. COMMISSIONER HASSE: We]], shouldn't that be done up front rather than -- MR. RICHARDSON: Where Js "up front"? Up front ~s you've got 150 some odd projects in the p~pe]ine. If you want to forget them all, that's a po]J. cy dec~sion you can OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 67 make. MR. CUYLER: Mr. Richardson -- MR. RICHARDSON: My sense ~s that the dollars involved in upgrading the landscaping is really a fractional part of the overall project and is something this board should take a stand on. MR. CI~I,ER: Mr. Richardson -- Bill, you may want to address that. It's my understanding of the provision is that it doesn't do away with -- MR. MERRILL: I will. We specifically -- Mr. Richardson, we specifically limited it just to the yard and landscape buffer width. Now, they will still have to comply with the landscaping requirements. The width is the only thing that we are saying this code shall not affect these developments. So your concerns, they will -- these development orders will have to comply w]tb the other landscaping requirements for irrigation, plant size and so forth, if that clarifies. MR. RICHARDSON: then public understands that. Thank you very much. As long as staff understands that, It wasn't clear to me. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 68 COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Also, you're also talk]ng about 2.4.4.2 and 2.4.4.3, which we haven't gotten to yet.. MR. RICHARDSON: That's true. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: So those are separate issues that we'll address. MR. RICHARDSON: That's tri]e. That speaks to what will be appl{ed. I just wanted to make sure that it didn't get lost. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Merrill, when I asked the question about width, obviously that's a term of art defined, you told me, in the code. MR. MERRILL: Yes. It deals wfth certain buffers have to be 10 feet, others have to be 20 feet and so forth. But they've already submitted -- one of these even has gotten final approval and meets these other requirements COMMISSIONER VOLPE: All I was going to ask is ~f th~s ~ssue ~s -- and I know Mr. R~chardson's attention to the detail of some of these prov~sions. Is this ~mportant enough to put something ]fke, "Nothing said here is intended to change that OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 69 requirement"? MR. MERRILL: We'll take a look at that to make absolutely certain because this was drafted very quickly, but we will double check on that to make sure that that is the proper term and that we aren't overinclusive or underinclusive. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: We have another, I think, speaker on Article I. MR. FERNANDEZ: For the record, my name is Michael Fernandez. I'm with Agnoli, Barber & Brundage. In regard to the t~me limits in Article I that are listed and the suggested language that's been brought to our attention this evening that would limit only to -- would exempt those issues that would have to do with density, placement of the buildings, the per~meter buffers. Unfortunate]y, if -- and it's an admirable attempt to try to find a compromise. However, those other issues like the landscaping requirements, issues having to do with open space, upland preservation and so forth, those all do impact preser -- the amount of density that you can put on a project by default. In other words, they wi]] occupy greater amounts of OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, CO~,LIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 7O area so that if you're saying that it won't affect density, as it was proposed, then by default you're going to say you're not going to respect those landscape ~ssues and those others. It's one thing to put it down in writing, but when you actually do the graphical analysis, you'll f~nd that they're very much related and you're not going to be able to pull those singular issues out, density, the buffer requirements, and not impact the other regulations. And so you have to consider them concurrently. Beyond that, I would ask that you -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How would you suggest we do it7 MR. FERNANDEZ: Well, it's almost like all or nothing. You're not going to be able to singular those out. In other words, if you're going to give a time ]1mJt or an exemption or an extension of when these existing development orders are going to either become void or when the new regs are going to come into effect, you need to do that date certain for all projects. But you can't come back and singularly subject them to just some of the regulations because they're also very much OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, CObblER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 71 interre]ated. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So if we adopt what you've recommended, Mr. Richardson doesn't get what he wants. MR. FERNANDEZ: By -- well, as it's written right now, he won't get what he wants. By what I'm si]ggest~ng, I'm suggesting that -- ~n other words, I think you need to do either one. You need to go ahead and exempt them all from all the ~ssues up to a date certain or you need to come back and say they're all effective immediately. Now, my recommendation ~s that you do give some balance and some credence to the amount of effort and monies that have been spent by the development community for their projects. There are projects out there that have spent enormous amount of monies, including architecturals, that if you change the site plan, the amount of landscaping and so forth, you reduce the a foot print size of your building envelope that you're not on there and therefore all your architecturals are down the tubes. You can't salvage those. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: We've had a couple of requests for extensions recently, as I recall, and one of the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 72 conditions that we've imposed on -- as I recall, those people to whom we've Granted those extensions to is we said we would give you that extension ~f you would comp]y with certain of the provisions that are going to be in this Unified Land Development Regulation, this code. MR. MADAJEWSKI: To provide some response to that, the provisions I think Mr. Fernandez has referenced are not valid. COMMISSIONER HASSE: What was your name again? MR. MADAJEWSKI: For the record, earlier, John Madajewsk~, Project Review Services Manager. That's why we t~ed ~t to the landscape buffer width. Specifically for that. The code may reguJre you to put more trees or more bushes or a d~fferent density but will not require you to impact your s~te plan. If you had a 10 foot buffer today and the code moved Jt to a 20, we're saying you are basically locked into the that will not d~mensionally change your plan, will not affect your building. The SDP has nothing to do with the architectural features of the building. The code does not address uplands habitat protection. That ~s something that your Environmental OFFICIA~ COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 73 Services Division is addressing and at some date ~n the future will be part of this code. It has nothing to do with green space or anything like that. The staff looked at what the provisions were in the current regulations. I can tell you that your sJt. e development regulations which are Division 3.3 are unchanged from what they are today except for some specific comments relating to environmental questions, but no changes to the requirements. Subdivision ~s virtually in the same category. There may be some updating of criteria of improvements, but there ~s nothing that is going to physically affect the site. So I would counter some of those comments. MR. FERNANDEZ: I believe there's a great deal more latitude now by staff to come back and recommend and actually require that certain natural vegetation remain in place that's on-s~te. MR. MADAJEWSKI: We]], that gets into an issue of mitigation. When you are looking to mitigate so that you can impact existing protected areas, there is a provision where you can come back and you can mitigate by retaining uplands habitat. On-site in lieu of going off-site. So OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 74 ~t's a trade-off that has to come through the review process. If you are holding an approved plan, which this regulation specifically addresses, there's no negotiation. You already have ~t in hand. And we're saying you can keep ~t in hand for a specific period of time, unless you don't act. MR. FERNANDEZ: My ~nterpretation's different than that based on what I've read, but that it would -- that there are ~ssues that do impact the s~te Dian other than the ones that are named, specifically the buffers and so forth, and I'd ask you to take that into consideration. MR. CUYLER: Mr. Fernandez, you may want to get with staff in the next couple weeks before we have our next meeting and see whether staff agrees or you agree with staff and at ]east define the issue. MR. FERNANDEZ: Certainly. MR. MERRILL: Again, I just want to address that. I understand the points that the gentleman is making; however, I don't agree with them. I think that we are protecting the density. That's the whole point of this matter. It says shall not affect the density; shall not OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 75 affect the intensity, and so forth. So, if you do have some additional requirements, maybe a good example that I've always used would be storm water management. If you're requiring additional storm water management, those would only be implemented if will not affect yoilr density. And if it will affect your density, then you only implement Jt to the extent that won't affect the density or the intensity or the type of use and so forth. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is that part of an interpretation that Js in the genera] interpretive provisions of the code or is that just your knowledge of the law and how you think Jt -- MR. MERRILL: Well, I'm reading it right here. This is very similar language to what is found in Chapter 163 and the DRI Chapter 380 Statute. And that's how they do it. They phrase it in the same -- Jn similar fashion, and that's how it's been interpreted for DRI's when there's a regulation that applies. I know some might say you're totally vested. wouldn't go that far. I think that Jt applies, but Jt doesn't apply to the extent that there are certain things OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 76 vested ~n that ordinance. MR. CUYLER: Another quick point Js that the staff has tried to be fair. This Js a fairness issue, I th~nk, as opposed to a legal Jssl]e, at ]east with regard to some of these phase Site Development Plans. Legally,. you don't have to exempt out. But they've tried to be fair to Mr. Richardsoh's concerns as we]] as the developers' concerns and reach some medJum ground there. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Was there any consideratJ¢,n just given to a transitional provision, just having a transition from old to new? MR. MERRILL: There was, but as you may recall, that's what got us into trouble on the Zoning Re-evaluation Ordinance because that -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I wasn't thinking abo~]t three years and five years. MR. MERRILL: I know. upon as an outright exemption, and that's one thing that I did not want to recommend, at least at this point. It certainly seems to make it easier, but the law seems to say otherwise. MR. OLLIFF: Gary Beardsley. But it would mti. ll be 1. ooked OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,I,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 77 Go ahead, Robert. MR. DUANE: Good evening. For the record, my name is Robert Duane. In Section 1.19 of Article I, amendments to this code, I support -- COMMISSIONER HA$SE: Read that again. MR, DUANE: Section 1.19, amendments to the code. I support the provisions that would only allow zoning amendments to be brought forth to the zoning ordinance two times a year; however, given the comp]exi. ty of this code, I would like to suggest to the board that d]]r~ng this next calendar year that there may be some more latitude Jn bringlng amendments more than twice a year just because I think there's going to be some provisions that have fallen through the cracks. And I mentioned that to Mr. Merrill at one time and I think he recognJzed the wisdom in that, although I don't see it addressed at this point. And if he had any comments to share with the board, I would ask him to do so. Thank you. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Jt says except. Now, maybe you can explain that to me. Mr. Duane, you look at this -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 78 On the very end of the sentence at Section ].9 -- ~9.1. MR. MERRILL: Well, the exception is -- for the first exception, which is 1.~9.].], amendment to the Official Zoning Atlas would indicate that there's a rezoning going on, so we're allowing those to occur as often as you normally allow them. And number two deals with emergency situations. So we allow them more often than twice a year for emergency s~tuat~ons. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The definition of emergency, though, may not fit what Mr. -- MR. MERRILL: That's -- no, that's correct. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What Mr. Duane is concerned about. MR. MERRILL: exception Jn there. And we certainly could put another There's no legal requirement for this provision at all. This is something that is very similar to what Js again Jn Chapter ]63, and the language ]s taken from Chapter 163. The -- I understand what Mr. Duane js wrest]]rig with and I've wrestled wfth it myself, but then again, when I went back and thought about it, we allow it twice OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 79 a year and you probably aren't going to want to do a so-called glitch bill for probably half a year anyway, unless there is some type of an emergency. But if we adopt this on November 8th, you still have two, before the end of this year, which is only one month -- well, two months, and then you have two full ones for the following year. I don't really have a problem either way. I'm just telling -- I'm giving you some of the reasoning. didn't think that it would really be necessary, but certainly we can make an exception for the first six months of the first year of the code. I just -- the whole reason for restricting the t~me is so that you don't have a lot of different amendments coming in for a particular project. You know, that's I think how the code got amended quite a bit in the past. You ended up w~th an RP overlay and you end -- because one project wanted it that way and you ended up with something else because one project wanted ~t another way. So again, it's just trying to limit it so that we don't overdo the amendments to the code. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: We didn't do anything OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,LIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 80 different to the Growtl~ Management Plan, d~d we? I mean, the ~irst year. MR. MERRILL: No. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And I guess I just -- I think Mr. Duane's point is we]] made. But ~t may g~ve us a little b~t of time to work through ~.t and to see -- not, you know, a particular problem for a particular Petitioner, but we may need six months to really look at it to see whether ~t is working and ~f there are some changes that have to be made. MR. CUYLER: Commissioner Vo]pe, ~f we could, maybe Bill and I could talk about that a little bit and maybe we can finalize ~t at the final hearing. MR. MERRILL: It may be that we would need to expand the definition of emergency for the f~rst year or something of that nature. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: That w~]] probably make some sense, Bill, to look ~nto the particular area 4n the event that we really need to do so. COMMISSIONER HASSE: It might mean that you s~mply hold up for a little b~t, you know, six months or -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The only other point -- I OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 agree. The only other point I was going to make is that I would assume that the majority of people who des] with these regulations on a regular bas~s would ]~ke to see the language ~n this code track the language in 163 and, you know, where there is -- you know, if there ~s some interpretive provisions there, it might be helpful because it's language that they're familiar with, and if you said this language comes from 163, those who deal w~th these provisions know what ~63 means. It m~ght make some continuity, you know, throughout -- if we start making special definitions, ~t might create a b~t of a problem. MR. MERRILL: But Bob Duane does have a good point and we have d~scussed th~s and we']] take a look at that and I'll talk with Ken about that. MR. OLLIFF: The next speaker is Gary Beards]ey. MR. BEARDSbEY: Good evening. For the record, my name ~s Gary Beards]ey, and I'm a resident of Collier County. I have a little different perspective in some of this, and if you remember back when we d~d the comprehensive land plan process, we were driven by the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 urgency of 9J-5 to put in the minimum requirements, but that's not what the Comp Plan says. The Comp Plan said that the citizens should have a vision, and I hate to use that because I'm not a Bush supporter, but an idea of what we wanted to see in the future. COMMISSIONER HASME: How can you say that? MR. BEARDSbEY: You want to talk to me later? I'll argue that point later. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Do J t here Jf you want. MR. BEARDSbEY: Anyway, what it said was that the citizens should decide. It d~dn't say the citizens had to decide this. It said the citizens should decide what visions they have of the future, and then they sbol~]d implement that in the manner of development standards and Levels of Service and that kind of thing. But those people that were involved in that comprehensive ]and process realized that we were always under the gun at ttmes, so we met the minimum requirements. I Just want to urge you that this Unified [,and Development Code is really the mechanism of putting standards and criteria in place to support or complement OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 ~3 the comprehensive land plan. So we have opportunities here to go beyond the minimum requirements, legal requirements. And I keep hearing that, you know, does this meet the legal requirements. I hear the consultant saying that. That's well and good. We don't want to put the county at r~sk, but let's seize the opportunity to put Jn place what we want, beyond Jn some cases. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Do you have a specific example? MR. BEARDSLEY: I could give you hundreds. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Let's just talk about Article I. MR. BEARDSLEY: in the environmental sections. on what I was trying to -- I would address -- most of mine are And again, can I contJnue COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I didn't mean to interrupt We're trying to confine the remarks to Article I, Okay. I'm trying to open dialogue you. so that's -- MR. BEARDShEY: here for the whole Unified Land Development Code, and some of the people here may not have the background. OFFICIAb COURT REPORTERS, COI,I,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 84 In January 3989 we adopted, the Commissioners adopted the Comprehensive Land Plan. In that was a policy that said ].1.2 that sa~d you w~]] adopted a Unified Land Development Code by August of '89. We're 24-plus months after that. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: There're probably 66 other counties that are ]n the same position. MR. BEARDaLEY: No, I'm sorry. Sarasota's had theirs in place for years. I'm just saying seize, Commissioners -- se]~ze every opportunity to move forward. The deadline of the or the transmittal date of November 8th is not just an arbitrary transmittal date. It's required by the challenge of Collier County Audubon Society and agreed upon by the Commissioners that you w~]l transmit, under the hammer, you will transmit by November 8th. So when the consultant says, Well, we've got a transmittal date, ~ wish he had said, We have an agreement between the Commissioners and DCA due to a challenge that ~f we don't, we run the risk of c~vt.l or of circuit action. I don't want ]t to go to circuit action. But I want the Commissioners and people to move OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 85 expeditiously forward, use everything they can to move forward. Thank you. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Mr. Beardsley, if I may, we want to move forward. We want to do what should be done. But ~f we are being stymied here and there because of the various sections of our county, then we have to look at that also. I don't want to rush headlong into anything and not be certain of what I'm doing. MR. BEARDSLEY: place in '89. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I know when it went into place. MR. BEARDSLEY: We are now Just doing things two years late and we haven't even started. The only reason this Unified Land Development Code, and I tell you this honest]y, got started, ~s because of the Collier County Audubon challenge ~n January of th~s year. They were foot dragging before that. The committee hadn't even been formed. When was the committee formed? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Beards]ey -- MR. BEARDSLEY: And I don't mean to be derogatory. I'm just saying move forward. No disrespect, but the plan went in OFFICIAI, COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 86 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I th~nk you've made your point. I -- just a comment that I would make, and that ~s I think your word is what was happening with the adoption of the Growth Management Plan was that we were under a hammer and we satisfied ourselves wfth minimum requirements. I think what you're saying is well, we've had two years and maybe it's taking too long, but I thfnk what we're trying to do is capture the vision about which you speak. And all I'm saying to you is that my introductory remarks were ~f we need just a ]Jtt]e b~t longer to capture the vision, another, you know, two weeks really shouldn't make the difference if we do the job right. And I think we may be both saying the same thing. I th~nk ~t's ~mportant for you to keep our feet to the fire and say keep moving forward, but -- that's fine. Not at the expense, though, of making mistakes or satisfying ourselves with the minimum requirements. MR. MERRILL: Commiss.~oners, if I may, also, Mr. Beardsley's correct as far as the transmittal date. It ~s a required date. However, he ~s incorrect w~th regard to commencement of this code. It's been underway for OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 87 long time, and it wasn't as a result of the Audubon challenge. MR. OLI, IFF: MR. PIRES: Next speaker is Tony Pires. For the record, my name is Tony Pires. I'm with the law firm of Woodward, Pires & Anderson. I just have a brief comment on proposed ].5.3 that was handed out tonight on staff's side sheet LDC page ]-6. I know there was some dfscussion -- I guess Mr. Merrill indicated he -- this was intended to put all previously approved development orders on an equal footing with those development orders that will be issued after the effective date of this ordinance. I Guess -- just having an opportunity to look at it, I have a couple of concerns. One is that the first sentence really may not be necessary and surplus. That m~ght be a decision by the board to even put that in there because I think that it was not even necessary to make that statement. But in the second sentence the concern I have ~s the word "retroactively." I know the intent is to apply from this day forward, but retroactively almost seemed to indicate that Jf you had an approval when it was approved OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI. 33962 three years ago that the time ]~mJts go back Jn t~me and start from that three-year period. I know Mr. Merrill indicated that it's not the intent to have something go pool after the effective date of the adoption of this ordinance, but the language ~n the last sentence there, second to last sentence. But the term retroactive]y, I think, is inappropriate for that. Additionally, I know the board indicated that -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Doesn't the last sentence take care of that, though? MR. PIRES: The problem that I see, Commissioner Vo]pe, Jt seems as Jf does, but having the word "retroactively" is a pretty strong word. You're basically reaching back ~n time and starting the clock back then. And so that's why I think at the least, and this is just upon first glance, that the word "retroactively" is inappropriate and should be stricken. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: like sentence one, also? DAd you just say you didn't MR. PIRES: We]], one I don't think ~s really necessary because I don't think anybody's ever really OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER,q, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, F[, 33962 89 argued that the time should be extended or enlarged upon or stayed by adoption of the code. They would normally keep clicking along, as I understand it. I don't know anything that would indicate that they would be enlarged, stayed or extended. MR. MERRILl,: Well, yes, that's correct, but we want to make absolutely clear that that's the case. There's a lot of language in here that is typically ~ncluded in zoning codes or land development codes to make that clear. And quite often the law is based on those types of provisions, so -- COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: What's your response to the retroactive] y, Bill? MR. MERRILL: Again, we drafted this. We']]. take a look at that, but I believe that it's very clear the second -- the third sentence clarifies that entirely. It says that Jt shall apply as of the effective date of th~s code. So I don't think it's really an issue. Again, we']] take a look at Jr, but I don't think we have a problem on that. MR. PIRES: Thank you very kindly. I worked with Bill and he said the word "retroactively" has very brief OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 90 specific meaning and to have it in there and then be contradicted at a later sentence I think is inappropriate. Thank you very much. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Thank you, Mr. Pires. MR. OLLIFF: Is there anyone else registered to speak on Article I? (No response.) MR. OLLIFF: Bill, you're on Article II. MR. MERRILL: W~th regard to Article II -- with regard to Section 2.1.17, which t.s on a blue side sheet, I would propose to eliminate that language and replace ~t with the same language that we used -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Wait a minute. to you. What did you say now? MR. MERRILL: 2.1.27. It is on page 2-4, beyond 2-4 and 2-5. It's a new section. 2.1.17. It talks about time limits again. I would propose to eliminate that language since we've developed this new language and replace the old language with something very similar to what we have talked about in Section 2.5.3. That way it']] track the same language. Let's catch up OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLIoIER COUNTY, NAPLE,q, FL 33962 91 So in other words, this blue sheet I would eliminate in favor of another sheet similar to 1.5.3, but that would be labeled Section 2.3.17. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Any questions? COMMISSIONER HASSE: Is there a great change Jn that? that? MR. MERRILL: Pardon me? COMMISSIONER HASSE: Is there a great change Jn MR. MERRILL: It's generally the same idea, but I think that the new language clarifies Jt more, and I wanted to make sure especially with regard to the second paragraph that's only one sentence Jn 2.].]7 -- most of this clarifies that, and so I think that the new language would certainly clarify Jt more than what's currently there. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So those two sections would be ~dentica]? MR. MERRILb: Yes. I think they would be identical except we would take out possibly the non-conforming sign language and so forth, as you've indicated. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Could I ask, on Article I now, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, CObblER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 92 which we've completed, these staff side sheets where there was some notation made by the CCPC directire and so on and so forth, we didn't discuss them. I guess they're subject for our review at a later point ~n time? MR. MERRILL: That's correct. As far as I understand Jr, and Martha Howell can correct me if I'm wrong, these are a]] either approved by the CCPC or they're approved by general consensus, so we don't see any problems with regard to these other than the ones that I bring out. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So between this hearing and the final hearing what's on here Js somehow going to get incorporated into the f~nal document? MR. MERRII,I,: We]], what we're planning to do is to have this code stay the same based on our original direction from you. The main document wi]] stay the same. We will have one final package of side sheets that will be fncorporated, so we won't have all different colors, and so we will present one final package of side sheets and it wi]] indicate -- if staff agrees to it, ~t will indicate that. If the CCPC agrees to it, it will ~ndfcate that because they're going to take a vote Jn the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLI,IER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 93 same way. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: What about the committee? MR. MERRILL: And also the CCPC has taken a straw vote on most of these and that's why we've included them on almost all the b]!]e sheets. And the comm1. ttee -- well, the committee then l suppose ~f there ~s a disagreement then we would have to have those on a separate sheet. That would be the only thing that would vary from the main package. MS. HOWELT,: Martha Howell, for the record. A lot of these side sheets were issues that the committee and staff worked out together to come up with language. So to the best of my know]edge, among the blue side sheets there shouldn't be any disagreement between staff and the committee. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: All I'm trying to ask ~s at the final hearing, this stack should be real thin. MR. MERRILL: MS. HOWELL: MR. MERRII,L: NO. No, ]t will be the same. This wi]l include all these changes, but you won't have to re -- hopefully you won't have to rereview them if you -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 94 MS. HOWELL: The only change will be on these when you come back for your final hearing or after Monday the 21st as I said earlier is that each side sheet wi]] be marked with the Planning Commission's (inal action. MR. MERRILL: And Commissioner Vo]pe, then after the final hearing, of course, we will incorporate everything, no underlining or strike-throughs and it wi]] be transmitted. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Thank you. COMMISSIONER HASSE: And is there any opportunity to do anything right after the f~nal hearing? Changes? When? MR. MERRTI,L: MS. HOWELL: MR. MERRILL: Not after the final hearing. He said at. Oh, yes, at the ~inal hearing. Yes. The next section that I have -- I don't have any other sections here except I would skip over to Section 2.7.3.4, and ]et me find the page on that. COMMISSIONER HASSE: What page have you got there? MR. MERRILL: I'll tell you. Just give me one moment and I'll let you know. Page l- -- 1-80, I -- well -- OFFTCTA~, COURT REPORTERS, CoI,I,TER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 95 MR. OLI, IFF: 2- -- MR. MERRTL[,: Excuse me. COMMISSIONER HASSE: 2-85. 2- -- on page 2-185. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: 185. MR. MERRILL: 2-185. And then at the same time, you'll need to pull out your white sheet, or your blue sheets, and it's re:wards the back of the package and it's also labeled 2-734, or 2.7.3.4, excuse me. Tt's two pages. COMMISSIONER HASSE: 2.7? MR. MERRTLI,: Yes. It's a]] the way in the back of your blue package. Towards the back. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The number again, Mr. Merrill? MR. MERRILL: 2.7.3.4. It's for an LDC page change for page 2-185. Tt's called, "Time l,im~ts for Approved PUD Master Plans." MR. OLLIFF: About 12 pages from the back~ It's page 2-185 at. t.h~. top, -- -- lipper ]eft-har~d corner? That is correct. COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: MR. MERRILL: Yes. COMMISSIONER VObPE: MR. MERRILL: MR. OLI,IFF: ]85. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COIJ,TER COUNTY, NAPI,E.q, FL 33962 96 MR. MERRILL: This blue provision replaces the sectSton that ~s ~n the code currently. This has been a straw vote approval by the CCPC and we haven't heard any contrary comment to it, but again, this sets forth the time limits for PIID master plans and it ge. nera]]y states that ~f they fail to obtain approval for improv~.menl: or development order for all infrastrlictlire ~mprovements or at least 15 percent for -- excuse me, in S~.ction 1 it puts a five-year limitation on ~t for the,, to obtain ~nfrastructure improvements, and there are different levels of that. Tt's abol]t 15 percent is what we've listed there. They have to have 15 percent of their Jnfrastrl]ct~]re approved within five years. The second paragraph -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What do you mean by "approveel"? Accepted by the board? MR. NERRI;,L: Yes, approv -- well, approval -- that would be approval by staff. T think infrastructure improvements -- the Jmprovement plan is actually approve(] by the staff an(] not the board. So they would have to have ]5 percent of their improvements approved within five years or else it wi.]] OFFICIAI, COURT REPORTERS, COI,[,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 q7 reverL back to a provision I'll talk to at the end of th~s section. The second test would be that they would b~ required to receive 15 percent of their building permjtm for a residential development or 30 percent of their gross leaseable area within six years or every s~x years from the date of approval. So again, that's a five-year/six-year requirement for time ]fmJtatJon for PUD's. We have then in the middle section right below the strJke-throughs that you see, there's another underlined section. That deals with monitoring to make sure that people -- that the PUD's do meet these reql~irements. And then the last section that's on the next page sets forth that J f they do not meet these requirements the board may -- the board shall elect one of the following and Jt has three d~fferent alternatives. They can either extend the current PUD approval for a maximum of two years. At the end of that t~me, the owner would have to again submit as jf an original Petition. COMMISSIONER HASSE: And how long would that MR. MERRI~J,: Two years. Pardon me? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, F[, 33962 COMMISSIONER HASSE: After you've submitted a new amended PUP, how long would that run? MR. MERRILL: We]], Jt would come under a]] your new regulations, so it would be as If ~.t's a new P~)D, and so then again you'd have the five years and six years. COMMISSIONER HASSE: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Right. Okay. Mr. Merrill, why don't we make everybody bring in so that we can monitor it? Ts that too much of a burden on the staff? MR. MERRILL: Everyone? You mean rezonings that are not PUD's? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, ~t says -- no. Th~s says that Jf you faJ] to do tb~s and yogi faJ] to do that, then you shall submi. t a report. Why don't you just make everybody submit the report? MR. MERRILL: Everyone does submit a report. This latter section is ~f they fa~] to pass the first two tests then they have to go back to the board. Under the first page r~ght below the str~ke-through, Jt says, "The project developer shall submit to the Development Services Director a status report on the progress," and so on and so forth. OFFICIAI, COURT REPORTERS, COLI,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 99 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's the requirement of everyone, not just those who fail to meet the requirements set forth. MR. MERRII,T~: A]] PUP's, yes. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Why dop't you look at moving that around so that -- and then, you know, everybody's got to be required to do tt and ~f you haven't done certain th~ngs, if you fail to do that, then you've got to go thro~gh the boar(] and the boar(] shall take this action. It jl]st seems to me that -- i.t looks like it's only those who faj] to do jt that have to submit a lot of reports. MR. MERRI~J,: ¥eah, we']] take a look at that and possibly f]~p that around. Again, there -- MR. BAGINSKT: There is a reqli]rement for monitoring the different sections. MR. MERRILL: As Mr. Bag~nski indicated to me, there is another section dealing with monitoring reports, but we']] stJ]] take a look at that. Again, there are three different options that the board must take. One of those three, they can either OFFICIA~ COURT REPORTERS, C.O~J,TER COUNTY, NAPLES, Fb 33962 lOO extend it for two years or they can require the owner to submit an amended PUP. Or, if the owner fails to submit the amended PUP within six months of the board action, the board may ~nitiate proceedings to fezone the property, so there's really just those three possibilities. With regard to DRI's, however, the DRI time limits supersede any time ]~mits we p~t ~n here, so Jf yogi do have a DRI that has a ten-year time phase or twenty years or whatever it t.s, that would supersede. the time limits that we p]ace in here; however, they'd st~]] be required to be monitored. So again, I just wanted to go thro~]gh that. It's something that has already been by straw vote approved by the CCPC and we haven't heard any objections to this, but I did want to point that out s~nce we talked about time limits earlier. I want to go through each o[ those time limit sections with you -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: them. MR. MERRI[,I0: That's a good idea. -- so that yo~'re fully aware COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Baginski said that there ~flf. OFFICIAb COURT REPORTERS, CO],I,IER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 101 was another provision having to do with monitoring. Obviously you've added that. to this provision. It wasn't ~n the original draft. MR. MERRIIJI,: That's correct. COMMISSTONER VOI,PE: So why do we have it in two places then? I mean, if that was the answer when I said move ~t aro~md and you said we've got it .in another provision, so why do we have it in both places? MR. MERRII,I,: We]], this merely cross-references real]y to the annual monitoring report. The monitoring report section has all the details of what you have to include in the monitoring report. MR. BAGINSKI: Exactly. Ken Baginski of P]anning Services. The monitoring report basically keeps track -- helps ~ls keep track of perhaps time conditions or requirements for development on or off-site as opposed to the sunset clause that you're reading now is a definitive statement. Tt says in an effort to provide or to determine what Js earnest development, so every three or five or ten years we don't have to argue or the developer doesn't have to argue that he is indeed attempting to OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 construct or act on that approval. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Thank you. MR. MERRILL: If we now move -- Ken, you might want to stay up for th~s. A.g we now move back to page 2-~80 Jn the main roll, me, Section 2.7.2.12, this ]s the requirement for all Site Development Plans. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Where d~d you get that one again? MR. MERRILL: Section 2.7.2.12 was taken out of your existing zoning regulations, and that's on page 2-1~{0 of the big vol ,line. COMMTSSIONER HASSE: You're going backwards. MR. MERRTI,[,: T'm go(rig backwards, yes. And ~n this case, we need to clean ~]p the language a l~tt]e bit because it is taken d~rect]y from the code, but the purpose here and the req~]~rement here is that Sir. e Development Plans must commence co~strl]ct~on w]tb~n two years of approval. They have -- that's commencement of construction, not completion, but two years to commence actual construction. So again, here's the t~me ]]m]t for the .q]te Development Plans. If the construction bas not commer~ced w-~th]n that OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COI,I,TER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 103 two-year perrod, the board may either extend j t for a six-month period or Jt may initiate a fezone or ]t may take no action on the rezonJng of the land. Again, -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: What would that MR. MERRILL: It would allow ~t to -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Continue? MR. MERRIbL: -- cont]nue on. And as Mr. Baginski.'s ~ndJcating to me, some of the language needs to be cleaned up here. The references to the fezone should be eliminated out of this section, everything else as I understand ~t ]s okay. MR. BAGTNSKT: Yeah. Basica]]y -- and again, we have d~scI]ssed tb]s very recently and we don't have a draft to provide you, but basically the paragraph of the statements would remain the same except that we delete any reference to a set rezon]ng and simply reference the submittal review an{] approval of a Site Development Plan ]imitJ. ng it to two years beyond that date to implement ]ts construction. If not, then the Board of County Commissions. rs would have the ability to extend the plan. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COIJ,TER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 .104 What I had talked with John Madajewski about would be to use similar language as to the requirements within the subdivision regu]at~ons for the final plat review or final -- preliminary plat and use similar language to you that Js shown Jn that section for the subdivision review. Essentially Jt would giv~ the board the ability to extend the S~te Development Plan or again take no action if that's what you choose to do. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Could I make a comment? This says that the Rite Development Plan shall exDire. No development bas commence(]. The Site Development Plan shall expire. In the event said Site Development Plan expires, the board may. Shouldn't we h~ve some provision that says that the Site Development Plat, shall expire unless 60 days prior to the expiration date they make application to do th~s, this add that and the other thing to extend it? I mean, otherwise it's like after the fact. T mean, ~t expires and then they come Jn after the fact. We ought to give them 60 days in advance, ~r 30 days. I don't care what you p~t Jn there. MR. MERRILl,: I understand. That certainly Js a OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COf,I,TER COUNTY, NAP;,ES, FI,33962 105 prerogative of the board. We -- again, this languaga was taken from your zoning regll]at~ons, and because you have that language, we repeated ~t here. .qo if that's what the board desires, we can certainly do that and tl]rn ~t ~nto a mandatory -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Merrill, if we don't do that and ~t exp~res, they can come ~n any time after it expires and say, Oh, it expired two years ago and gee, now I want you to do this° So ~]n]ess yon do it 60 days prior to, that's the way I look at it. MR. MERRILL: Okay. COMMISSIONER HA,gEE: We]], that forewarns us. MR. MERRILL: that -- We']] make that correct, on then if COMMISSIONER VO[,PE: That's just a suggestion. I'm not -- T'm really ]¢~ok~ng for yoder comment and in[,u/.. MR. MERRI~J,: T tend to agree with yo~. You know, ~t should be a mandatory and ~f the des.ire of the boar(] is to have them terminate after two years, then that's how it shol]]d be drafted the way yolJ're talking abol]t. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: We don't ne¢:essar'i]y want OFFTCTAL COURT REPORTERS, C. OI,[,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 106 to have them terminate, we want to give them the opportunity [or the exten.~ion and -- MR. MERRIbL: B,t what if they don't come in? COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: -- they know 6(] days in advance, that they're going to expire ,n]ess they come in. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: If they don't come in, they lose it. They can't come in after the fact and say it -- MR. BAGINSKI: Your point is well taken. What you're saying Js yos~ can't extend something that's already expired. COMMISSIONER VOTJPE: Do you see what I'm getting at? MR. BAGINSKI: Right. COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: Okay. Thank you. MR. Of,tIFF: Bill, is there any other highlight or can we go to the public speakers now? MR. MERRTLL: One other -- co,]ple other points ~n Art}tie II. With regard to Section 2.6.33 and 34, there was a lot of discussion regarding model sales centers. A sJgn~ fJcant amount. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Most of the room is here OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, CO;,LIER COUNTY, NAPf,ES, F[, 33962 !07 for that. MR. ObLTFF: for ~t. MR. MERRTT.,T,: handle 2..6.33 and 34? MR. BAGTNSi<I: MR, MERRTI,L: The majority of the speakers are here And I would -- Ren, de) yogi want to W$1] you handle. The primary issne, as T ~]nderstand it, is that under 2.6.33 an(] 2.6.34 we do not allow a ;,ode] sales center, which staff cc)nsiders a cornmerci_a] use, to stay Jn existence irader a temporary permit for more than a year and we requJ. re it to go through a conditional use permit which would have to be heard by the board. The people from the public that we heard from generally -- and many of them, most of them, as far as I know, had model sales offices or model sales centers that are out there right now. They did not want to have to go through the conditional use process because it takes a lot of t~me and addJtJona] money. And second]y, they wanted to have a long~:r [mrtod of time for whic. h the mode] sales center would be available to them and be a permitted use. OFFICIAb COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I guess the argo]sent on behalf of those who find themselves in that position is you've allowed this situation to exist for a fair number of years and no one's really complained about it and .~o tf yol~ give us just a ]~tt]e bit longer period of time, we understand what i.t Js that you're trying to do, b]]t don't make u~ come Jn and go through this process jn terms of the application of get. t.(ng approvals f¢)r s()m~.t.hing that's been there for some significant period of time. And that's what T've tinderstood from public comment that's been shared wjtb me. MR. BAGTNSKT: To direct the board's attention, ~t's actually four of your blue sheets that pertain to potential changes or changed language dealing with models and mode] sales centers. Those are 2.6.33.2, temporary construction permit development or development p~.rmits and the i~nder]ined language which was presented to the Planning Commission in their meetJ. ng of last Friday n~ght and to my know]edge, unless somebody's going to d~sagree with me, that these were basica]]y by straw vote approved, which takes ~s to the fourth page, which ~s LDC page 2-172. OFFTC. IA~ COURT REPORTERS, COTJ,TER COUNTY, MAP~,ES, F[, 33962 ')O9 Based on the discussions with the Planning Commission, based on discussions w~th some of the or the representatives of the interested or affected persons, what I did was try re) provide some type of compromise language, if you w.i]], understanding or making note of the point, Commissioner Vo]pe, that you just made. that perhaps the enforcement of the ordinance at this point in t~me may create additiona] hardships on som~. of members of the community. To try to come to a point that we can a]] agree upon, T made certain changes within Section 2.6.3 or 2.6.34.3. Those changes are essentia]]y other than what was presented to the Planning Commissi¢)r~, the addition of the term "~lpon the adoption of this code, a]] models and models sales offices sba]] be Iotated w~tb~n a mode] sales center." I deleted a port,on of. the sentence. The real important issue is the inc]~sion ¢)f the second paragraph which states that models or models sales offices for which a temporary use permit has been applied for or issued, shall be allowed to receive or extend the temporary use permit an may be appropriate for a per~¢,d not to exceed two years from the time of adoption of this OFFICIAD COURT REPORTERS, COI,I,TER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 110 code. Any application or request beyond the two-year expiration date shall require full. conformance with all the requirements of this code, which would ~nc]u¢]e that they're not located i.n an identified and approved mode] sales center or conditional use. So effective]y, if this or similar ]angl]age is adopted, that those persons that have been issued ¢)r are in the process of receiv].ng a temporary use perm]t or mode] or mode] sales office would be basically for up to or not to exceed a two-year extension on that perrot t. COMMISSIONER HASSE: In that case, does that mean that after two years they come to us and ask for an approval to continue? MR. BAGINSKI: If they are not located within an ~dentJf~ed mode] sales center as previously or as otherwise provided fo~ in this document, yes, they would have to apply for a ccmdJt~c, na] use petra'it. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Maybe you want to elaborate on the sect]on an(] the district that they're permitted fn. Are you still talking the blue? MR. BAGINSKI: That is actually on page -- ~n your OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COT,LTER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 3.3962 ]11 document ~tse]f, page 2-172. addressed. 2.6.34.3. COMMISSIONER HASSE: MR. BAGINSKI: 34.3. That's where the code Js And in your blue sheet, it's Section And what that -- 34.3. That's the section that establishes that models or model sales offices that are not located within aD approved mlbdiv~sion ¢~r Development Plan as a mode] center, Jf they're not approved on that, then these models -- sales office not located wi. thtn an approved model sales center shall require approval of the condJtJona] use permit, which shall provide for the duration of the use, the ho~]rs operation, buffering, screening or any other restriction determined appropriate by the. Board of County CommJ ssJoners. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Adequate landscaping and things of that -- MR. BAGINSKI: Yes sir, under the conditional use. Anything you determine appropriate. COMMISSIONER HASME: B~lt. by the same token, that mean that they're able to continue that -- first, where is this section that you're talking about that OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, CO[0LIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 112 adequately designated as the mode] home site? MR. BAGINSKI: Right now it does not exist. What this ordinance proposes -- what tb~s ordinance is proposing ~s that once the adoption or with the adoption of this code, that as new Site Development Plans come in, for example, for multi-family projects or -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Suppose I'm not multi-family projects. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAM: Sing]e-fami ]y. MR. BAGINSKI: Same thing. They'd be identified. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Regard]ess of where these sJDgle-fami]y units are located. MR. BAGINSKI: When the site plan is submJ. tted to the county, to the co~]nty staff for revJew and approval, that on that site plan would be marked specif].c area or areas where the mode] centers and sales offices would go. When and i.f that plan is approved, then by this ordinance we wou](] allow the issuance of temporary permits or models or model sales offices wJth~n that desJgnate¢] area. That way finder the review and the pub]Jc an(] any other Jnterested buyers, they know ~,]] we]] exactly what to expect. They know that models, they OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,[,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 know that model sales offices, b~lsiness offices, if you will, are going to be located in that particular area. If they choose to buy next to .it, then they're fully advised of what they're buying into. If they choose not to, they can locate other where or otherwise or other where in the development. COMMISSIONER HASSE: But by the same token, not a]] sales or model homes are ]ocated in a development. MR. BAGINSKT: That's correct. COMMISSIONER HASSE: And if this model home has different areas of the county that they're setting up or selling the models home for and they're located on a through road, isn't there something that can be to relieve these people? MR. BAGINSKT: We]I, sir, what this ordir, ance proposes, what it suggests a~d proposes ~s that if Jt is not located, identifi. ed within an approved model sales center, then it wol]]d be required to be approve(] by conditional )]se permit. It would be an application that goes through the public revJew. It would be brought to you in the form of a conceptual site plan and you would say Jf you fee] that's an approt)rjate location or not. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLI,IER COUNTY, NAP~,ES, F~. .%3962 ] .1 4 And through that review, you could determine if it's -- if you wanted it to stay there for three years or five years or seven years. You could determine how many parki. ng spaces, where they shon]d be or whether the buffering is adequate and even the hours of operation if you fee] that's appropriate. COMMISSIONER HASSE: My cono. erp is people that are working under those cnndJt]ons at the present time get relief by coming to us or is it al]tomatJca]]y granted? MR. BAGINSKI: No, sir. not be automatically granted. That's why -- no, it would My effort to achieve some type of middle ground would be the inclusion of that paragraph that provides anybody that has applied or is in the process of receiving a temporary nse permit or has one wol]]d be granted a two-year extension maximum on to that. Beyond that, ]f that mode]_, they can -= we']] give them a temporary use permit for a maximum of two additional uses, two additional years. Beyond that, ~f it's not Iotated in a mode] center, the or~]y way that facility wo~l]d contin~]e to operate is through a conditional use approved by you. OFFTCTAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER CO[~NT¥, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 115 COMMISSIONER HASSE: I think that's where we're coming through a -- COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: Can I just give a specific example so we can put it in a context just to -- ]t ties ~nto what you're asking, Commissioner Has.~e. Willoughby Acres. I bought two lots. I'm going to do th~s in my spare t~me. I build a home there and now I want that to be my mode] home. It's within an approved subdivision and I'm going to try to sell that home and maybe I can blly some other lots ,qpecl] l a t~ on. throughout the county. been doing this now. home -- MR. BAGINSKI: How long can T continue? T've How long can T continue my mode] Two years. COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: -- within Willoughby Acres? MR. BAGINSKI: Two years. If th~s ]s adopted, it would be allowed -- ~ f you -- COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: I'm doing it right now. MR. BAGINSKI: If you are currently or Jn the process of receiving a temporary use permit, we wo,i]d grant you, w~th th~s approval, a maximum of two years. Beyond that, for the instance that yen] jus[. cited, OFFICTAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,I,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 116 the only way you would go beyond two years woIJ]d be through a conditional use approval of the Board of County Commissioners. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. Let me -- conditional use like provisional ~]se. The other example -- the other example are let's say for example along Go]den Gate Parkway there are a number of models there. They've been there for a period of tJme. How long would I be able to keep my model along Golden Gate Parkway? MR. BAGINSKI: Two years. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And at the end of two years ]t would be like what we know as a provisional use? MR. BAGINSKI: Yes, s~r. COMMISSIONER VObPE: Kind ¢~f like a provisional use. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, I know what you're saying, but they have to -- d~(] you get any words of wisdom? MR. BAGINSKI: COMMISSIONER HAHSE: MR. BAGINSKI: Yes, Okay. Give them to me. Mr. Merrill wanted to make s~lre that OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 117 we dJstJngujsbed that Jndjvjdua] home sales, for example, that there Js no restriction that I can put up my home for sale for as long as ~t takes. COMMISSIONER VOT,PE: COMMISSIONER HASSE: Oh, n('), we're -- We're not talking abo.ut that.. Even limitations li. ke connector roads or anything ]~ke that make any impact on that or is that an accepted mode] area? MR. BAGTNSKI: No, s~r. If T ~]nderstand your question, that yes, jt does have an Japact and that's the type of thing that we as staff wr~uld look at during the review and recommendation of the conditional i~se as to whether there's appr¢,prjal'.~. acce.~s; as t(~ wheI'oh~.r, you know, what the surro~]ndJng properties and what the poter, tJa] Japacts are and what the poter]tia] for lighting or s~gnage, what impact would J t have. Those are the type of things that we wo~ld be revi. ewing in the conditional 1]se Jn recommending to you. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: l~en, -- MR. BAGINSKI: Just like -- Jf I may add, just like ~n a provisional use that you have now, that technically a provisional use Js not a g~mme. It says that under the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,I,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, F1, 33962 118 appropriate conditions that the provisional use or that use can be granted, and those conditions are that we address potential impacts. And I mean, we, the staff and the board. And through the review of that, then the board determines yes, those impacts have been addressed and that particular use can go in there, and that's what we're suggesting on these -- on tbJs mode] sales office. COMMISSIONER SHAMAHAN: CondJt|ons that exist today, Jf I want to build a home, what do I have to do? I'm a builder. I'm a small builder. I don't have a sllbdJvJsJon master plan. I've got a site, a lot t.o blli]d a home. What d~ I do now? MR. BAGTNSKT: Get a buJ]ding permit. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAM: Get a building permit and they bllJ]d a mode] home. MR. BAGINSKT: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAM: An(] the mode] home is a]lowed for how long? MR. BAGINSKT: A model home is under a temporary use under the ordinance. It's granted for a year, and under the ordinance that the zoning d~rector has the. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLI, IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 119 ability to extend or not extend that permit. COMMISSIONER HASSE: For how long? MR. BAGINSKI: The ordinance says the temporary i]se permit can be granted for up to a year and it may be renewed. It may be renewed by the zoning director, s,Jbject to-- COMMISSIONER HAS.RE: For how long? MR. BAGINSIfI: llp to my dJscreL~on, very frankly. Yes, sir. You can snicker. YolJ can snicker, but there's nothing Jn the ordinance that needs the administrative -- COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Why do we want to get so restrictive as this appears to be? Why can't we consider -- why can't. we consider a program where the b~}~]der comes Jr, and bas a request, it's administratively approved for two years and at the end of two years it's ol]t, it's over, or he comes Jn and he gets a cond~t~or,a] approval from the Board of County Commissioners. Why do we want to get into a mode] sales office center that may not make any sense at all? MR. BAGINS]<I: We]], certainly it's a matter of op~.n]o~. I can only tell you that I've worked in communities that have a very similar system and there was OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI.,I,TER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 never any diffJc~ltias, never had any pro)bless. In fact, Jt never even was a topic of discussion, but of course that's there and this Js here. COMMISSIONER HAMSE: That's right. MR. BAGINSKI: One of the questions I want to point out Js that as the administrator and certainly involved ~n the enforcement, that every day obviously I have to provide answers to qile~tions. COMMISSIONER HASSE: MR. BAGTNSKI: The question is, a~d again yo~']] get people that are g¢)~ng to say tb~s ~s not ha[)per, ing, but I can tell yowl J t doss happen. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: is -- go ahead. MR. BAGINSRI: But., Ken, all I'm saying what we have and the problem that I have to deal with Js that many of these mobile homes or model homes, maybe it's none of these people An the audience, but it's somebody. Many of these model homes are registered under occupational licenses as blisS hess addresses. They have staffs that man them daily. They are indeed a business by definition. OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COI~I.0TER COUNTY, NAPI,E,q, FI, 33962 '12~I We don't and we could not allow tbrol]gb temporary use attorneys, planners, engineers, but we do operate bl]sinesses within residential districts that first of all that type of activity is not allowed commercial activity. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Th'at's what we're .trying to cure; correct? That's what we're trying to cure. MR. BAGINSKI: And I understand that and again that's why we made the attempt to allow ~t as a conditional use ~n any distr~ct subject to yol]r approval. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: But Ken, we could cure the problem by providing the b%]i]der an opportunity to) come ~n and get an administrative approval from you for two years to meet all the criteria. And then at the end -- not in a mode] center. Not J.n a designated center. It's too restrictive. Two years administrative approval by you and at the end of two years, it's over. That use Js gone. It can't be any kind of an office or any kind of a commercial use. It's over at the end of two years. ff that particular builder wants to ~'.ome Jn for a conditional approval beyond that, he has to appear before the board and convince this board as to why we should go OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 122 forward with that cond~t~ona] approval. If you're trying to cure the specific probl. em that you just articulated, that certa.~n]y would do J t and not cause a hardship to the small development industry. MR. BAGINSKI: We]], I guess one of the responses that I would make ~s ~rst I point out that two recent administrative appeals basically dealt with mode] sales, off-site sales. And unfortunately, aga~.n when you buy an ~nd~v~dua] lot that Js not part of a development under construction or development, effectively what you are doing is you are selling off-site sales. You are $n the real estate business sell tng throughout C. oll i~.r County an(] development throughout Collier County. You're not -- you're not related to a part~c~l]ar development as allowed for and provided for ~n the ordinance. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's my example ~n W.~]]o~:ghby Acres. But on the other hand, Commissioner Shanahah, suppose I happen to l~ve ~n W:[lloughby Acres and there's a s.~ngle lot, a vacant lot. I live w~th my family on one s~de and my neighbors on the other s~de, some entrepreneur comes ~n, buys the lot and now he's OFFTC. TAL COURT REPORTERS, C.O;,LTER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI 33q62 123 going to conduct a model center there. That's where he wants to conduct his bus~ness and he puts the sign out there, "Model," and he's got, you know, two or three salespeople who are there and, you know, he doesn't. use his garage l]n]ess there's some deed restri¢:t~ons and he has cars parked out there. We have to be sensitive to the concerns and I think legitimate concerns of the sma]] businessperson, but you also have to be concerned about the resident. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: I'm sensitive to that and think we can deal w~th that and I think that's the exception rather than the rule. It carl happen. And I think that there's certainly some language that we cot]](] apply to protect that integrity of that neighborhood where that s~tuat~on may ~n fact be. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I just want to offer up another observation t. hat I've made. That given this entr~:preneur an ur, fair advantage over the guy who's got to go into a commercial area to set up his business. And he's got to pay more rent and do some other things and ~t's unfair competStion of sorts. We've got provisions ~.n our ordinances [¢)r home OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,LIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 occupations; correct? So jf I want to conduct a little b~[t of law practice in my house, I hope you're going to £e]] me ~ can do £ha~. a.~ a ho~e occupa£Jono MR. BAC, TNSK!: No. COMMISSIONER VO1,PE: Can't do it. Okay. ,qo -- all right. I can't do that. Can an architect do ~t? MR. BAGINSKI: No, s~r. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. We]], let me just -- so yo~'re saying -- MR. BAGINSKI: I just wanted to ~dentify that under the reqlJjrements, the home occupation, one of the most stringent requirements there Js that you cannot generate or not a]]ow to generate any additional traffic other than what normally would be allowed or generated by that resJdentJ a] unit. So, you know, virtually almost any type of business where you're to]king about people wol]]d come ~.o v~s~t you, clients or otherwise, obviolls]y you're general. Jng addJ tJona] traffic. COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: And that's -- and I think that's the point. I mean, we've got the constrl~ction people who are small entreprene~rs, f~ne. But the guy OFFIC. TAI, COURT REPORTERS, COLI,TER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, 33962 1.25 who's the retired ]awyer who says, I don't want to go down on, you know, Ninth Street and rent some ?,pace there. I'll jl~st do it in my home. No problem. MR. BAGINSKI: One of the difficulties in handl~.ng anything administratively, obviously I'm the admini. strator and I'm not saying that that's not my job, but w~thout the criteria, for example, in a typical development or subdivision maybe we. can do that. Maybe one home. Maybe one mo¢]e] sales for two years. But, and maybe it won't happen, b~it neverthe]ess ~t certainly does, what about the second and the third and the fourth that come down the same street and want to do the same th~Jng? COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: And I can we can technically deal with that. T think we're being overly restrictive in moving in this direction and I think we']] hear a lot of evidence. of that tonight. So T think we have to take that into consideration. There are ways to cure the problem wJth(~t k~]]~ng the cat. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: We have a number of. speakers. Le.t's begin to hear from some of our speakers an(] then we'll go back to the discussion. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 1.26 MR. OLLIFF: I th.~nk some of these speakers will talk about the same isslle and you'll get ideas from them. MR. MERRILL: I could finish i~p the remaining comments for Article II that we have in a matter of less than f~ve minutes, and there's just a couple of ql]jck points, if that's okay. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: A]] right. MR. MERRILL: In the white sheets -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Can I -- we're kind of foc]~sed on this issue right now. I'm thinking about -- I can switch, bl]t it's -- why don't we hear our speakers, Madam Chairman? CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Tom, -- COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Wh~]e we're ca]ling lip the speakers -- we]] , -- CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Go ahead and ca]]. the speakers, Tom. Ca]] the speakers. MR. OLLIFF: Most of the speakers that are here are here for ArtJc]e lI, so you're going to get some others other than model homes. COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: Anybody who's interested in talking about the issue of mode] homes, the issue that OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COLT,TER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 327 we're talking about. r~ght now, is there anyone that. wants to speak on that MR. OLLIFF: Let me go ahead and -- let me go ahead and call those that are identified. Stefan Johansen. MS. I,AWSON: He ]eft. MR. OLLIFF: Jerry Meyer. MS. LAWSON: He's here. He just stepped out. MR. OLLIFF: Mary Ann I,azarus. (No response. ) MR. OLI,IFF: M'[chael Fernandez. COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: We can play ready go] £ here. If Miss Lawson is ready to go, let's -- let's go, and we']] -- MS. LAWSON: Yeah. There's a few others. I think the crowd is th.~nntng. Good evening, Commissioners. Linda Lawson representing the Collier Building Industry Association. I first of all want to thank Mr. Bag~nski for his efforts to focus our attention on the specific ~ssl:es an(] attempt to modify the language since the Planning Commission meeting. I think that was a s~.ep .~D the right d~rect~on. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,LIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 I think your discussion here ton_ight ]s a continuation of that focused d~seuss]on. I think you'll hear, as Commissioner Shanahen has said, from a n~mber of peop].e who have som~ r~al marketplace economi. c based concerns about how they're operatinG. I've -- looking at Section 2.6.34.3, I've ~uggested some language changes that aren't very extensive that could take us a little bit beyond where we are more ]n conformity with where Commissioner Shanahen js taking us. The model sales center, I've heard from builders bfg, medium and s l, fsn't probably going to be very popular. We've al.~ady set thi. s ~]p so that there's an alternative, eithe~a model sales center or a conditional use permit, an(] I sl]bm~t to you that there's not probably go~'ng to be too many model sales centers. I thol]ght that the larger developers woi]ld be able to modify their upcoming p]ats and projects and ~ncorporate that. by (]tawing a red c~rc]e around something on a subdivision plan, whi. ch they could theoretically do but from an economic standpofnt they do not think that that is a recommended path to go and I've heard the term mode] ghetto ~3sed to describe that sort of neJgbb¢)rhood. OFFICIAI, COURT REPORTERS, COLI,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 And I don't see a lot of popular support for the model sales center even among your larger developers. So, I think that one change that we could make in the first sentence of th~s provision where we say that a model "shall" be located, I think we could chang? that to "may," which is what we're saying anyway because it's an alternative provJs ~,on. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What would you -- excuse me for interrupting. Just tell us the theory of where you want to get us. What is it we're trying to ac. comp]ish from your perspective of this and the Jndl]stry that you represent? Can you do that without taking this word by word? What is Jt you'd like to see happen? We have technic~ans over here who can work on language. MS. LAWSON: Okay. I do not think that we should emphasize the model sales center because the input that I'm getting is that it's not a workable COMMISSIONER HASSE: one building? MS. LAWSON: What is a model sales center, The way I read this, Commissioner Hesse, you could draw a circle around one lot an(] ca]] that a model sales center. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,I,TER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 130 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Give us an example. Give !is a type of example that think -- you know, I used Wi].]oughby Acres. Use any other subdivis~on in our community. What are you trying to get at? MR. DORRILL: I think U.S. Homes type projects consistently have had a model sales center where they will have a series of their products that are cont~gl]ous and interconnected with a sidewalk and a central parking lot. And U.S. Home communities, be they Lakewood, Fox Fire, the one that's now on Immoka]ee Road, generally are consistent w~th a model sales center type concept. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: And ~s that objectionable to you? MS. LAWSON: Well, T don't think ~t's rea]~st~c when you try to apply ~t to Marco Island or Go]den Gate Estates or any number of ex.isting commnn~ties. COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: But that's another issl~e. Tf we've got a particular issue -- MS. LAWSON: In addition to all of those existing communities, many of. which are not nearly bui. lt-out and need to have mode]s, when I talked to the larger folks OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, C. OLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, F[, 33962 that bave DRI's and have ]ors of acreage ]eft that's unplatted even, and I'd suggest that they could accommodate themselves to the mode] sales center ~dea, I haven't gotten a ]or of favorable reactCon. I think that these developers would ]~ke to proceed to place their models or have their .~ubbuJlders or developers place their models scattered througbo~]t the development. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: If you allow that to exist for two years, do you have a problem w~tb that? MS. LAWSON: No. And that's why T'm suggesting that ~n the f.Jrst sentence we aleemphasize the mode] sales center by changing the word "shall" to "may." COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So where you've got -- MS. LAWSON: So T thJmk -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- an existing subdivision -- my example, Wjllol~ghby Acres, is one situation where you've got say Pelican Bay, Lely Resort, some of the new subdivisions that are coming on line -- Imperial Golf Estates may be another example. Phase f~ve ~s another example of where I can see what you're saying in that instance. You've got a number of builders who are going OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,I,IER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 132 in. But when you've got an established subdivision, Jt really does create some problems. MS. LAWSON: In what sense? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: We]], from the people who live there who have their -- who live there and tbJs mode] home is, you know, is between two owner occupied bu~]dJngs and the fe]low's trying to conduct a bus~ness and sell mode] homes off-site. MS. LAWSON: All r~ght. I don't want to beat the sales center issue to death. I just wanto. d to point out that it's something that's new that's been propose(] and it's being emphasized. In other words, it's given the priority in the ordinance that gee, if you're ~n a sales center you don't have to come to a public hearing. And I'm suggesting that that isn't going to be all that popular to very many people, including those people platting new s,]bdJv~sions, okay? That's my point tilere. COMMTSSIONER VOLPE: So ~n those instances, what would you do? The new subdivisions, the one -- Fox Ridge, Phase five, Tmperia], what we would do? They're selling off lots to prospective OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 133 MS. LAWSON: I wou]d take Commissioner Shanahan's approach which Ks that a mode] i.s allowed with a temporary 1]se permit for two years and then after that the builder or the developer, whoever it. may be, must come in for a condi. tiona] use permit. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How do we get to that subdivision? Is l.~. based upon the percentage of deve]opment wit. bin it? I mean, do we do -- MS. LAWSON: That's anybody. wou]d app]y across the board. COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: COMMISSIONER HASSE: COMMISSTONER VOLPE: I would say that that Tn Wi.]loughby Acres. She answered that. No, she didn't. No, we're talking about the new subdJvJsJons. I'm just saying we've got an estab]]shed neighborhood. What we don't want people doing Js going in -- Jt may not -- that's the exception I think someone sa~d. MS. LAWSON: That's r~ght. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So how do we get to that exception and stfl] do what Jt is that you'd ]fke to do? MS. LAWSON: I made a comment on my notes here. In response to your concern about Willoughby Acres, what I {.(:. OFFTCIAI, COURT REPORTERS, COI.,I,TER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, Fl, 33962 ~34 have heard from bill]tiers ds that typically economi(:s and the realities of the marketplace take care of those. situations and it is rare ~f not completely unheard of for a guy to go in a Willoughby Acres on a back street inbetween two or three~ ex~stlng residential homes, model -- typica].].y there's carLain areas where they're more desirable than others an(] this is not an area of my expertjse. I think some of the people who are hera tonight can address that more specifically, hilt I th~nk that if we move towards Commissioner Shanaben's approach for an across-the-board program, I think that's what yoll're going to see that works. COMMISSIONER HASSE: We]], that's halfway there. Everybody here is gearing themselves to a subdivision, W~]]oughby Acres or where's the place you live? COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: COMMISSIONER HASSE: Wyndemere. Wyndemere, things like that. T'm not gearing myself to that. You know, there are b~g sect.ions of this county that isn't all in one clump that wants to build next to one another or anything. There's sect.ions of tb.is county OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 that need a model home so that they can approach the public w~th the ~dea where they are. If they had to build a model home Jn the m~dd]e of nowhere out in Go]den Gate Estates, they'd never do anything with that. MS. LAWSON: That's why we are supporting Commissioner Shanahan's approach here, which Js that we should allow that mode] to go Jn wJtb a temporary use permit for two years and then cut them off and unless they can come in and prove their case after the two years with a condJt].ona] use permit, -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: And then Jt goes for what? MS. LAWSON: -- you' re ¢~u t. COMMISSIONER HASSE: years? CO~JlSSIONER SHANAHAM: That can go for how many Another year. MS. I,AWSON: The conditions] use permit, as somebody ment.]oned the other night, ¢:ou]d be ¢,p~.n-ended or I assume it could be e~tber -- COMMTSSTONER HASSE: Open-ended would be a sensible approach to that. And perhaps you wanted to ].~m]t those th~ngs to connect the road or something ]ik~. that. I can I understand that. OFFTCTAL COURT REPORTERS, CO[J,TER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FT, 33962 136 MS. LAWSON: I've probab]y gone about as far as T can go with this. There's probably a nl~mber of other people that want to speak. Thank you. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Linda. MS. LAWSON: MR. HEAD: They're wai~ting behind you, Yes. I don't know if I'm really more qualified than l,inda, but I']] try to add a few things to this dJ scuss]on. For the record, my name is Dan Head. I live on Marco Island. I am not currently situated with the mode] and I'm not currently pl. ann]ng to build a mode] or involved with a builder building a mode]. My concern here J.s as a member of the public and the real estate group in genera] as we]] to express some common sense input to what's being discussed. COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's a boy. MR. HEAD: First of all, yOllr question why are we concerned? There are two b~g examples, an(] frankly I found out Friday night at the P]annSng Commission there are a lot of small examples, too, but the two b~g ones are Marco Island and Go]den Gate where Marco Island has OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COIoLTER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 137 over 5,000 vacant lots and there's not a single designated lot site specifically designated for a model. Go]den Gate, I iJnderstand bas, ~n excess of 10,000 vacant lots and a similar situation. T found out from people I talked to Friday. night there are a lot of other smaller situations existing in Collier C. ounty that are similar. Those are the things want to discuss right now. The proposed change as was written we found to be difficult one to live with. Commissioner ,qhanahan's suggestion I think is a livable situation for Friday night I heard members of the staff make a comment that what their ultimate goal was with this, in these areas that are not covered by this, is to see these properties end ~]p on commercial property. And I found that surprising because we have a glaring example of what happens when we misuse property. Example: Ryan Homes models on U.S. 41. I'm not saying what happened there was ca~]se(] by something ]~ke this. What I'm saying is if you look at truly what i~s a model home, it is a temporary use of a home to sell that type of home or that bui]der's product to the public. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, £OI,LIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 Once that temporary use mode] is finished, what we have left is a home; not a restaurant, not a retail store, a home. If we b%li]d these homes on commercial sites, we're going directly against some of this very ordinance we're considering today and I suppose yol~ all know well enough I don't. need to read it all to you about preserve, promote, protect and improve public health an(] down further appearance of property, to encourage the most appropriate ~]se of the ]and. We're not doing that if we encourage tb~s type of s~tuat~on ]|ke I3. ,q. 41 to happen. What we're encouraging is -- T know everybody ]augheal, but we ,3re encouraging "a mode] ghetto" in a situation like that. Just ].oak at it. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Would you propose then -- for your example, take Marco Island. Let's forget about the main entrance into Marco Island, which you've got. 5,000 lots. You're a builder on Marco Island. You b~]i]d a home on one of the lots and one of the streets there and you get some of the exposure, a] tho~gh I guess from a marketing point of view y¢,u said that that's pr¢~bab]y not a wise move, but you could exist for two years there and .~' OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,I,IER COUNTY, MAPLES, Fl., 33962 13g then you realize you'd have to sell that one and then you'd move to the next one. So you'd have k~nd of a moving mode] center for your company. MR. HEAD: Yes. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Wait a second here. .They sell that p~ece of ]and. COMMTS,qIONER VOLPE: Well, yeah, the two years would -- and I think you have to live w~th that. MR. HEAD: Let me -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: They have to close ~t down. At the end of two years, he can close down and move to another location or he can come back here and we look at it l~ke a prov~slonal use. MR. HEAD: That ~s correct, which Commissioner ShaDsban proposed. Now, Friday n~ght, what basically happened was most of the builders and construction people ~D town here were caught completely by sl]rpr~se. The majority of l]s that were here Fr.~day n~ght found out Friday ,]fternoon about th~s proposal and had no chance to read ~t, prepare for ~t or d~scuss it intelligently w~th that commission. And fortunately they, as you have done, looked at OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLI,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 140 this and recognized that it was going to create some problems and were able to throw together in this room as a group a hasty modification that we all felt we co,J]d ] ~ve with. I'll only add one more th~ng to it. For those of us on Marco Island, the majority of us, this Js a good plan because frankly Marco Ts]and ~s an lipscale area and most of our models are bigger, expensive homes and you're making as much a fash.~on statement as you are a, tlere's the home, when you do that. So they tend to get dated fairly fast, two years, three years. We can ]~ve with CommJ ssioner Shanaban' s proposal. T just want to represent th~s because I know if the gentlemen are here from Go]den Gate, b~it they did present there is a ]~tt'.]e different case up in there, but I think they may be able to live with th~s. I'll let them decide that. And that. is that they're ]ess fashion and a more basic in some of their areas and a basic well-constructed home, which does have a little longer life. I can hope they can live w~th it, too. COMMISSIONER HASSE: May T suggest you come out to Go]den Gate an(] see what a fJr, e community we've got. OFFIC?A[, COURT REPORTERS, COLI,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 141 MR. HEAD: I'm not knocking Go]den Gate. COMMISSIONER HASSE: As a token -- I can feel something of what you're saying, and Jt may make sense. I'm not ~nterested in placing them in the mi. ddle of a residential community either when they just walk Jn there and now this is a mode] home and that's ~njected into a De~ghborhood that's a (tuay, it's a neighborhood. But when you have a connector road wherein this mode] ~s iotated and you're dealing with these 10,000 units that you're speaking of, you don't move that every two years. It would not be feasible because you're creating a -- and the mode], of course, has to be mafntafned in a tasteful manner and added to a]] of our zoning reguirements and the. attract~veness of such and the impact ~n the neighborhood. You certainly look at those th~ngs. What I think what we're looking at is the two years and then apply for a continuance of that and a limited time or whatever time you fee] is good. That's not a bad ~dea, b~t I don't want to tilt them off just ]~ke this. That's wrong. MR. HEAD: I agree with you. I'm agreeing with you OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,LIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 142. and Commissioner Shanahah. (Applause from the audience.) COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: I think we're all saying the same thing. I think it's iust discussion. The only real issue that I Bee, Commissioner Hasse, is a]ong -- forget about Narco Island and the inner streets, but T see -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I'm trying to. I know that. So let's talk about Golden Gate. And on Golden Gate Parkway there are some sales centers there that have existed for a period of time, which ~n my view come ~lnder the category that would otherwise req~ire provisional use and yowl and I know, we all know the debate that we have had as it relates to provisional uses w~th~n Go]den Gate. So I think we have to be -- as we approach th~s sl~bject, we really have to keep that Jn m~nd, particularly along the Parkway, yon know, whether it's a church or whether it's a mode] sales center, the ~ss~]e is the same as far as the residents are concerned. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Not always. I don't go to church in a model. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: think you understand my OFFICIAL g. OURT REPORTERS, CO;,LTER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 143 po~ n t. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I understand your point. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: And we can address that. COMMISSIONER HASSE: What I'm saying here is that if it's fnterfer]ng w~th a neighborhood, I can understand that, too. But we're not looking at jt ].:ike this. But I don't want them re, have their hands tied. And a proper type of model that i?, an asset to a commnnity is not at a]] bad. I don't mean that you have droves of people coming in and parking 50 cars in the front and leading them out and flying them over like they used to do Jn the Golden Gate area. No, I'm talking about a sensible approach to business. MR. BAGINSKI: Commissioner, and I understand what you're sayJng and I essentially agree with you. My suggestion and recommendat]on from the staff is if you're going to go :in th,lt. d'irecl. ion an(] you're going to proceed along those ~ines, that from the stal~f po'i. nt of v~.ew, from an adm~inJstrat..~ve po.~nt of view, even ~rom these folks in terms of operating procedures and criteria, there should be some type of locatiohal crJterJa. The way you're. talking about, even wi th the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 144 two-year limit, what. you're saying is that virtually any vacant sin.gle-family lot is available for a mode] office. COMMISSIONER HASSE: You didn't -- read my lips. T said a connecting road. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: ]angt]age that protects that partjell]at problem that you've addressed? You know, we all understand. That's come lip two or three times. We all understand that a single lot between -- in a developed neighborhood should not probably be allowed to just drop a mode] home Jn there. Find the language. I mean, I don't have any problem with that and I don't th~nk the people here have a particular problem with that. But they do have a problem when you're saying, Hey, yo,] can only build these in a model center. That doesn't make any sense at all. MR. BAGINSKT: No, sir, that's not what we're saying. We' re saying -- COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: We]], yowl're saying ]f]t isn't in a mode] center they come Jn here and get a provisional use. I understand that. I'm saying you o~]ght to be the administrator. Yowl ought to give the Can you come back with some OFFICTAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,T,TER COIINT¥, NAPLES, FI, 33962 145 administrative approval for two years and it's a drop dead approval at the end of two years and that'll cure the problem that you're trying to cure. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You have to have some minimum location -- COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: And then there's obviously some language to build ~n around there to protect it and I think you can -- MR. BRUTT: Frank Brutt for the record. I think you can give us some guidance you have and we can work on cri ter~ a. There's one very interesting point that we would like to bri]~g out and as Ken mentioned the real estate broker operating in the home. The thrust during o]]r presentation and discussion of the Planning Commission was that Jf this is a model sales center, it i.s for the purpose of the sale of a home. of other commercial activities. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Abso]ute] y. Tt is not for the purpose That's fine. MR. BRUTT: If we find any other commercial activity going on, code enforcement should be brought into the picture. That was stated to us, and -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLI,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 146 COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Fine. MR. BRUTT: -- I just want you to know. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Frank, and I don't th~nk you'll find a quarrel with that here. And before the next day and you're finished, let Jerry get up here. We've only got about 20 minutes. While you're coming read quickly into the record Marco I"'sland Civi. c AssociatJon's posit.~on. I submitted this to each of the board members. I will not read ~t Jn detail, but they've' taken a very strong position against the way the ordinance would be .qtructured. I'll just read the last paragraph. "There are seven reasons why we think that this just won't work. It is concluded that reguirJng Board County Commissioner's approval for mode] homes and the cone]]trent temporary use permit ~s an additional burden on an already overworked legislative and po]icy-mak].ng body. The col]nty's staff ~s ql]a]JfJed re) perform these activities ~f such are ]n fact re~tuJred. It is an operational matter, not a legislative or a matter." So T just want to read that ~.nto the record. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,LIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 COMMTSSIONER HASSE: That sounds good. But let's understand -- I say, from what I sense, the majority of the commission goes along with th~s philosophy: Of a two-year use and then a conditional use ~f the commission grafits it and for whatever per.~od of time they dec~de to grant ~ t. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: of staff to come back w.~th that kind of ]angliage. So mayb[] ~f there's any addit~ona] comments that don't bear on that, I think we've got consensus in terms of letting the staff come back with some language with the criteria that we've pushed here. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAM: Jerry? MR. MEYER: Gentlemen, my name is Jerry Meyer. I'm a small home builder. Pardon me, Madam Chairman. A small home b]]J]der on Marco Island. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I'm glad you noticed. MR. MEYER: T was going to make a pretty -- a speech about a lot of things, but most of ~t's been covered. There are some things that I think need to be covered and I'm going to make a very short speech. Collier County ~s the n!~mber one dominate growth And we're giving the direction OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, CO~,LIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 area ~n southwest F]orJda and the entire United States as of last year's census. That's Collier County. Growth is largely due to easterners and westerners who ]~ke what they see when they come here on vacation. No one likes to buy a pig ~n a poke and so everyone likes to see his or her dream house even before they buy the ]and to put ~t on. Th~s ~s the problem we have in Marco Island. We have Marco Tsl. and as one sl]bdivision. We have mode] homes an(] we have mode] homes to sell so that. we can sell our products, so that a builder can h~s product and sell h.is product to somebody and put on one of the vacant lots ~.n Marco Island. We're all one subdivision. And that is very important and I hope you all understand ~t. We can't qu~te go along with connecting roads because we have so few connect4ng roads. We only have four main roads on Marco only has a certain number of lots which have Only about. 51 percent of our lots on We have about 49 percent yet been developed. Mater} have been developed. to st.i]] be developed. If the Land Development Code as it relates to mode] OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COI,I,IER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, F~, 33962 home usage is passe(] in its present form, which restricts mode] development by recluiring this conditi¢~nal use permit issue(] after a public hearing wb~cb wou](] be obviated by what Commissioner Shanaban says, you would have to pay a fee of $800. I don't know ~f you .realize that's the fee that the county ~s rerluest~ng for a conditional l~se pe: m~t.. We now DaY $75 for a temporary use permit. But for a conditional use permit and to come up here before you gentlemen and to have the legal help to do so would not j~]st cost ,is $800, J t wou]d cost: us 8800-plus, p]lJs, p]JJs and ~t's a burden on small builders under any c~rcumstances. You will see diminished building throughout Col. lief County. C.o]]ier Ccmnty's tax base will suffer. Mar~y small home builders and some subcontractors could possibly go out of bus~ness. As presently defined, the Unified Land Development Code w~]] not allow n, odel homes to be built on land zone(] for .~;'ingle-family homes unless thi. s conditional permit is obta~ ned. A sign must be posted on the property under th~s OFFICIAl., COURT REPORTERS, COI,LIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 conditional use permit for the mode] to be legally defined to allow for any complaints against this usage from community members. All these ru]es wi]] cause real].y rlndue hardship for the entire building community and particularly Marco Island. Marco is a limited subdivision. Marco Island -- there's no areas a'[;D]icab]e for a mode] center On Marco Island. There's no place where we could put one if we wanted to and where we co~]d even sell from. Marco provides a very generous part of Collier Col]nty's tax base, and we need help to continue to see th~s grow because if we're not allowed to build, continue to show ollr products on Marco, we will not be able to help this tax base grow. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Does the disc~ssion that's taking place here, does that address the concern -- if the consensus is to allow a mode] horne .in your subdivision, Marco Island, to exist for a period of two years wherever ~t happens to be and then what you would be re¢tuired to do is in two years you would have to at that point ~n time incl~r whatever the expense ~s to come back before the board and obtain a cond~ti. ona] use, wou].d OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 157 that address the concerns that you're -- MR. MEYER: It would address it to a certain extent because there are very few builders -- I don't know of any who have kept homes ~n Marco Island over two years because peop]'e -- you get -- ~t's ]~ke an old su~t clothes or an old dress. They get t~red of seeing it the time. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So, how wou].d you -- how would you do Jr, though? How would you have us -- MR. MEYER: We basically tried to pre-se]] our We try to do a sate and leaseback when we b~]ild model s. them. That's what I try to do. COMMISSIONER VOI, PE: All T'm trying to get at ~s what would you -- the ¢]iscuss~on's been two years w~thout th~s a(]m~n~ntrat~ve -- some type of locatiohal criteria or maybe some buffering, maybe some other -- MR. MEYER: Yes. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- livab].e criteria and then two years later you would have to come ~n. If you want to contJnue beyond two years, you'd have to come ~n and you'd have to make a certain request of the boar(]. The ne~.ghborhood would have an opportunity -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COIINT¥, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 152. people have moved into the neighborhood -- MR. MEYER: T find no problems w~th that. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- and they would come Jn and you'd have to justify the -- COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: He finds no problem. MR. MEYER: I find no problems with that. I find a couple of problems --- what Js -- what are we -- what Js this -- this particl]]ar item here does not address the future mode] homes Jn Collier Co]]nty as to the temporary use permit for future model homes, nor does it address the s|tuatJon I'm currently under where I have two models. I'm now building one in Lely Island Resort and one on Marco Island, both of whJch T went to the building department and specifica].]y permJtted them b.J]ding-wise as for models. An(] this ~s -- and tb~s does not address the fact that these homes that are under construction should be allowed to be operating under temporary permit. COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: Those that are already out there and those to be built Jn the future, -- COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Absolutely-- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- J s what I thought we were OFFICIAl, C. OURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI, E,q, 33962 talking about. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: If they're in the ground, -- Jf they' re in the ground, -- MR. MEYER: It just doesn't say it here. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: But we're going to have to rewrite the whole thing if ~n fact the consensus Js that that's the direction to go, which would include anything that's in the ground currently. If it's not in the ground, obvjo%]s]y it has to go thro~]gh the process with the administrative approval. If it's not -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Adm]nistrative approval for two years and then come back for the conditional. MR. MEYER: Commi. ssioner Hasse, in all respect to where yoIl stand iF, Golden Gate, because we have so few connecting roads, if you want to use the term, Jn Marco Island, we have roads -- we have wiggly roads all over. And we have -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: They connect to something. MR. MEYER: I don't think that you collid ¢luite -- don't think we could qujte do what you want in Marco the way that it's done Jn -- OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COIJ,TER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 154 COMMISSIONER HASSE: We]I, can staff c:c,me up wit. h some answers to these thing.~? CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: And they']] bring it back. MR. MEYER: Thank you very much. COMMISSTONER SHANAHAN: Thank you. MR. SECRETO: Good evening. My name's Mr. Secreto. In reference to th~s problem, I'd ]~ke to make a suggestion, and the sl~ggestJon i.s that these PUD's, they have deed restrictions of certain areas. They can easily turn around and say until the project i s finished these models remain and when anybody buys Jr, they b~]y a home in that area consequently knowing their sjtuation. And nobody ever f~ghts that. That takes Jt out of your -- the jurisdiction of the county. You have no headaches there. As far as the Estates, like Mr. Hasse is saying, you m~]st understand that you have an ordinance. It's a law that says no bus~ness. But, you can give a situation such as this a permitted use. It's put in the ordinance, the permitted use of a mode] home for two years we say. That. ends it. Now, if Mr. Hasse feels he wants to come back and OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COI. JJER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 they come to you and you do a favor for somebody, we're trying to avoid all that, and you say for three years. But, to help yol] ol]t, and you brought up a very good point, and that poi. nt was brought up ]n Long Island many years ago, that since you are Jn a residential district, you must get the consent of the people on both sides or a 300-foot circle to where you wish to p~]t that. And that's the law and that's the way you end it.. Very simple. Very simple. You're not involved. This gentleman Jsn't say].ng well somebody's doing him a favor. He's g~vJng them an extra year, an extra six months. Take it out of that: man's hands. Make ]t law ].n comp]~aDce with law. Now, there are g~ite a few other things but I don't thJr]k we're go.~ng to have the t~me. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: We'll be back. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: centers. MR. SECRETO: We're just talking about model right. So I mean, th~s ends it. This is the way you do it. You end it. Tt's over. Nobody can dare point a fJnger at that gentleman and say, Well, he had a model home two years ago an(] now you're OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,LIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 1..56 giving him another four years, now you've giving him -- that's favoritism. You don't want that. Th~s i.s the law. We do ~t by law. Permitted use. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Thank you. MR. RILEY: Good evening, Commissioners. Ken Riley, president of Olde Florida Homes. I was trying to figure out who the culprit was on this ].anguage that was written here, and I th~nk we now know who that was. COMMISSIONER VO[,PE: That was done, Mr. Riley, at the direction of the board because it came up in the context of a situation for an extension. There aren't any culprits here. We're trying to get -- MR. RTI,EY: I think we're making great progress. have two ~tems, and I won't cover anything we've already covered. The mode] centers that we were talking about, if that. language st~]] stays ~n there, would only create where. that if you had like the five builders or so on as having exclusive builders which would exclude the small builder from building in that particular development, so I think the language as far as mode] centers w¢,u]d be Thank you. Next speaker. My name's OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COIJ,TER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 157 totally taken out. The other thing is this thoroughfare issue. There's only so many thoroughfares Jn the county and let's take Golden Gate Parkway, which I'm Iotated, is that. -- and happens to be on a corner to where t.hey're getting ready to probably do an ~nterchange, so nothing' going to be going there. The s~tuation that we're dealing with |s that let's say we're doing an Olde Florida style prod~]ct that a client -- to sit there and take a move at, there's only going to be so many lots that you can buy Jn a thoroughfare. And our location would not r~..~trict ils maybe from going on for five years or six, for example. MR. DORRIL~,: Keri, I don't think anybody said "thoroughfare." I tb~nk the term used was "collector street," and there are any n~]mber of collector streets Go]den Gate Estates. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Virtually any street that comes from somep]ace and goes someplace J s a connector. MR. RILEY: You know, I agree with what you're saying. Most people ~n the mode] business or in the building business would not s~t there and bu~l.d their OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COfJ.,TER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, Fl., 33962 house offf of some sfde street. fn Golden Gate. Estates because it's not, goi. ng to get. any traffic. I'm just saying that you've got. X amount of ]ot.s on Go]den Gate Parkway or let's take Pine R~dge or let's take Go]den Gate Boulevard that mode]s would most. be on because that's where the traffic's at.. There's only no many lots. I'm saying that your two-year time frame or unless the commission is of the feeling that this would be a condJt.]ona] use and Jt would probably be viewed upon as favorable. COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's exactly -- MR. RII,EY: That's what you're saying, okay. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Riley, let me just comment on your particular situation. I think the discussion has been if yowl're there and yowl're been there two years, you meet certain locations] criteria. Where you are -- I mean, we have bad -- and you've been invo].ved in these debates. We have had the citizens of Go]den Gate, Golden Gate Estates concerned about provisional uses. I mentioned before about churches. Churches have a certain type of use. Right near where you conduct your OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COI,LIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 159 .mode] center. So if you're saying, I'm prepared to address my situation in the same way that a church is with a conditional use down there, you come in and we give notice and you pay whatever the fee happens to be, T don't. have a problem with that. But to exempt. out -- MR. RILEY: A particular -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- that type of a i]se, T can't do that. And I'm not prepared to do that. MR. RILEY: I'm just saying that as far as so that we can talk about attitudes going in later on, that when we look at thoroughfares and those kinds of situations -- COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: that, Mr. Ri]ey, js this: The only problem I have with My attitude when I'm dealing with you is open as I think it always should be. when I'm dealing with issues even better. So when ~t comes to a church, I cam't -- I mean -- MR. RILEY: I understand exactly. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So don't try to it do without MR. RILEY: Okay. addressed is other activities. But as they re]ate to God, it's One other item that was For example, I am a OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 ~60 rea]tor, but ~ am a bur]der primarily, and T do not there and take listings and so on, but I would sit there and have a computer system and so on and T w(~u]d locate lots for my people. I wouldn't want somebody coming ~n l~ke Mr. Brutt saying, We]I, you're doing some other activity other than creating a model home center and just selling homes. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Do you have a real estate office there? MR. RILEY: We]I, my real estate ]~cense hangs there, yes. COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: Then that's not -- I guess that's not what we're talking about. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: You'll have to meet the cr~ ter~ a. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: If I can't cond~ct my law practice ~n my home, I don't see why you should be able to conduct your real estate ~n yours. MR. BRUTT: The d~fficu]ty we get, Vo]pe, (s that we have comp]a(nts and th(s somehow has be addressed by the staff. We have a person who has come ~n who knows me by my ~(rst name and qua. re a few of the OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COI,LTER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, F[, 33962 161 staff and he resides between two model homes which were supposed to cease being model homes quite awhile ago and they're still model homes. The subdivision has basically filled up and he is a complainer to us. We also have to deal with that sitilar]on. I just wanted you to know l.hat the world is not perfect out there and thorough]y satisfied with the temporary use permits on mode] homes. The difficulty that we see, and we expressed Jt at the Planning Commission, is that people are using these mode] homes for more than just the physical construction or the sale of a physically constructed product. That is my home. Here are pictures of other types of construction I can do. We have had the complaints of people saying they are doing real estate brokerage out of that partloll]at facility. If that man can do that, why can't I run an accol]nting office? Why can't I have a ]awyer's office? Why can't I have some sort of other commerc].al ac. tivity? COMMISSIONER HASSE: You have to charge $1g0 an hour, that's why. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Frank, I think we a]] OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 162 understand what we want to cure and I think the direction has been provide us w~th the language to do that and we'll approve it. MR. RILEY: I th].nk I've already stuck my foot in my mot]th. MR. SECRETO: Excuse me. I'd just like to say one thing. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: You've already had your f~ve There's other speakers that haven't ha(] a minutes. chance. MR. SECRETO: I just wanted to say one thing. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Well, -- MR. SECRETO: I believe -- I'll just say this here. In no way is a prov]siona] use for a mode]. You cannot come ~n and ask you people for a provisional use for a mode]. Let's c]ar.~fy th.~s provisional use. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's what we're going to do. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: We hear you. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Yes, sir. MR. BENSON: Yes. Steve Benson, Benson Homes. I'm going to take issue with just about everything that everybody's saying up here because I have a mode] OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COTJ,IER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 363 home in Golden Gate C~ty on an interior street that I have a temporary use permit for that I use only to sell my house in Go]den Gate City, okay? And as far as Mr. Shanaban is concerned, I don't know where the two years came lip, okay? But per.sonal]y, I think it's -- I don't think it's long enough time, basically. And I ¢,,n]y put $80,000 worth of money into my mode] home, okay? I know there's some builders that put that ~n furnishings in their mode] home, okay? Two years, I don't know where it came up, but ~n my instance Jt woli]d not be satisfactory. As far as putting on a connecting road -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Why w¢,u]dn't it be satisfactory? MR. BENSON: Let's take this year for example, okay? Business is not the best, okay? Traffic ~s not the best. I mean, the year, as far as a builder standpoint is not -- is wasted, okay? I've used one year of a two-year use on nothing, basically. COMMISSIONER HASBE: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What about -- Is that because it's under construction, ~s that what yol)'re -- OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FIJ 33962 164 MR. BENSON: with it being built, okay? okay? Say the economy drops, okay? No, no, I'm saying with my house -- With my mode] being in there, Say, you know, traffic slows down, you've used up one year of your two years which you guys are talking about, two years for virtually nothing. VirtlJal]y nothing. And T don't know -- I mean, I don't think th~s board would go and approve a building for Collier County or a Collier Co~]nty building and approve to build that when in two years you may not be able to use it again. Okay? I think it's pretty much to ask of us to only use ~t for two years. Is your mode] for sale? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: MR. BENSON: No. COMMISSIONER VO~,PE: Will it ever b~ for sale? Yes. When will you make the decision that ~.t When nobody comes in and buys ~t I mean, the market pretty much tells MR. BENSON: MR. VOLPE: wi]] be for sale? MR. BENSON: anymore, basically. me that. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: When no one comes in -- I'm OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 just trying to understand. MR. BENSON: I mean, when -- when -- like the one gentleman sa~d, when the mode] gets stale, okay? When that style of home doesn't sell anymore. When I feel the need to spur activity in it by, you know, just building a new house, building a new model, okay? I mean, basi,.:a]]y .~t goes by the fact that when nobody else comes in -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How many years do you think would be faJr? COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: When does ~t get stale? MR. BENSON: In my ~nstance, I don't think I could go for -- four years, basically. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Then you've got to come back Jn and ask for an extension, ~]nder these terms and condJ tions. MR. BENSON: I understand that. That's my -- I don't know -- COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: You' re saying you don't ]jke the two years, ~t ought to be three or four years. MR. BENSON: I don't even like restricting it anyways, okay, but I mean, I understand that. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,I, IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: That's why we're Jn th.~s position we're in. MR. BENSON: But my problem As if we go two years, I have to think about whether T really wi]] get that. permit afterwards with the staff recommending not to do it with the public, you know -- I mean, grante(] T don't have anybody come and complain to me, but that doesn't mean they're not going to come here and complain. COMMISSTONER VOI, PE: front of your mode]? MR. BENSON: Yes, I do. Do you have a sign out in I have a parking lot. I have everything that I'm supposed to have. COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: Do you have residents on either s~de of you who are living there, -- MR. BENSON: Yes, I do. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- families? MR. BENSON: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: We]], I think there's some suggestJori about maybe getting some consent if it's go].ng to be allowed to continue for perhaps a period of time. That may be one of the criteria. There may be those people -- you have a blls/ness OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,I.,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 ]67 and these peop]e have bought homes and at some point in time they want to have the integrity of their resident].a] neJghborhood, and I think we've got to balance that against their very legitimate concern. MR. BENSON: I understand that. And Commissioner Hesse is getting the point -- what I think he's trying to te]] .is put them on major streets, through streets or connecting streets where in my instance, okay, putting them on Go]den Gate Parkway or putting it on 951, I'm selling a home on an 80 by 125 foot lot, okay? I don't th~nk that would be representative -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The City of Go]den Gate is one subdivision, too, ]Jke Marco Island. MR. BENSON: Yes. COMMISSTONER VO1,PE: Okay. Ith]nk we've had that ~ssue come up and we know that those subd~vjsions are different, Marco Island and Golden Gate. MR. BENSON: I'm just saying that what Comm]ssioner Hasse is getting to is if you put them on the major streets, I think that would be a]] right. In my condition, I don't think it would be because putt].ns a -- selling a house on a two and a half acre parcel ~s not OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 16g representatJve of an 80 by 125 foot lot. I mean, I've got people coming in my model that don't know what an 80 by ]25 foot lot looks ]jke and it's on an 80 by ]25 foot lot. Okay? I just -- restricting it in any way is -- I'm opposed to, but -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, T think we have to have certain contro]s. There's no ¢tuestJon in my mind because we have to protect the residents of the area. And by vfrtue of the fact Jt bas to be maintained properly and it has to be landscaped properly and conducted in a manner that Js conducive of -- I don't see anything wrong ~ith that. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Are you going to set a date for another meeting? MR. BENSON: Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: Is there any other speakers on the model home? I've heard a couple of things, staff, and I think that yo%] need to take this into consideration if the rest of the board agrees. I think that we need to ]ook at it for a two year wJth staff approval. OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COl,bIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 ~69 I think that we need to br.ing it back to the commissi. oners with some type of a minimal fee to it for a conditional use for mode] homes. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Yeah. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: I think that we need to at the subdivision such as Golden Gate City and Marco as being in almost any type area. And then I think that we need to look at the Estates and some of the others as being on some type of a road or a corner or if ~t's, you know, something like that to where the people's not going to be riding aro~]nd looking for it and nobody's ever going to go there. If ~t's on a dead end street somewhere off of Wilson Boulevard, then, you know, that's not going to be an area that people are goi. ng to well travel . But I think that ~n the City of Golden Gate and the City of Marco or ~n the community of Marc(, that both of those are something that people ride around in. Is there something else? COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The only other comment I have is this ~ssue arose Jn the context of Hide Away Beach, as I recall, and certain of the act~vities there and OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COI,I,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, F[, 33962 170 subdivision, Wyndemere. There's a temporary use permit for a sales off~ce there. The project is about sold out. I assume that that exists ~n other communities. What happens -- how long can those people continue to sell or resell? I mean, they've got a ]~tt]e b~t of prodl]ct ]eft. Can they -- once the project's been sold off, can they do resales from that forever an(] forever and forever? COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: terminate? COMMISSIONER HASSE: COMMISSIONER VOLPE: NO. So at what point does that In that subdivi. s~.on. Right now. MR. PETTROW: At the conclusion of any 1. and sales for that subdivision or -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But as long as you've got one lot unsold, there's no problem? I mean, we talked about some percentages. There's got to be something -- you know, they'll always bold one lot for whatever reason, MR. DORRILL: I think the other way would be control would be at the conclusion of whatever extension OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 was granted. You're going to have the maximum of four years or three years or whatever you decide ~s appropriate and let's say that someone comes into, you know, the last lot ].eft ~.n Wyndemere and they build a spec house mode], if you w~]]. They'd be allowed for two years and then they'd have to come and convince you at the end of two years that they were entitled to -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I understand that. That's fine. But here we're talking about at H~de Away and at Wyndemere and some of the others. There are sales offices -- I'm not talking about a model home. There is a sales office that exists under a temporary use permit. And that's a d~fferent situation now. When do those temporary use permits that are sales centers -- there is absolutely no question they are sales centers. They have a real estate broker there. They're se]] i. ng. We had the -- came out on Hide Away Beach. We're talking about off-s~te sales. They're selling. We knew they can't do that, but how about that situation? haven't heard any discussion about that at a]]. And that's an important issue because we do have, as this gentleman pointed out, a lot of PUD's where within a PUD OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAP~,E,R, FL 33962 they've got a temporary use permit. MR. BRUTT: Commissioner Volpe, I'm try]ng to remember when I went down to Hide Away Beach and came back and reported to you, we had informed them that they could not do the sales off-s~te but they definitely were doing resales within the project. You heard their attorney come up and say that they desired to continue until both the projects, I believe, was finished out, the two ()r three buJ ] di ngs. I think somewhere along the line as you're saying, ~f you just held ()me lot open, could you then st~]] do resales other than that one lot? That isn't the intent that you gave ~]s and T'd have to go back and look at my notes. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But it's not in what we just rev~ ewed. MR. BRUTT: this model home because Jn that particular cas~ -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is it someplace else, Mr. Brut. t.? CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: We were talking about multi-family, wasn't we? It's not in what we're looking at under OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COIJ,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, FI, 33962 173 MR. BRUTT: Away Beach. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: No, that was a sales office at Hide For single-family. MR. BRUTT: For s~ng]e-fam~]y. MR. BAGINSKI: Excuse me, but under thi. s code, that's what we defined as a mode] or a sales office. Those faci]|ties uzed for administrative sales, promotion, whatever. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So what happens to Hide Away Beach? What happens at Wyndemere? What happens where there are these others? As Mr. Dorri. ll pointed out, some of the U.S. Home situations. How long can those people keep those sales centers there? MR. BAGINSKI: year-by-year basis under a temporary use permit. We tried to restrict it here to the mode] sales centers, again, through the temporary i]se permit, but it's just something we're going to have to addream and bring back to you. I haven't got an answer. MS. LAWSON: Co,lid I try to help? I think that's handled under that 2.6.33. Under the current ordinance, ~t's a OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 174 C~AIRMAN GOODNIGHT: name for the record. MS. LAWSON: I, jnda Lawsor,. Linda, you need to give yo~]r Isn't COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: What section is it? MS. LAWSON: 2.6.33. Ken probably knows. that where what Mr. Volpe is talking about would be handled, a developer base sales center? An{] we've got now revised ]angl~age that allows 24 months there? If you look at 33, he's got probably a white page I think that's what yot]'re talking That's a different section than what and a blue sheet. abolJt., Mr. Vo]pe. You're right.. The fact is we've been previously discussing in the models. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's all I was asking. That's what really br¢~ught this iss~e up was in that context. We haven't discussed that and that's really -- MS. LAWSON: Right. MR. BAGINSKI: No, sir. that we had accounted for it under this ord|nance. Your question is valid. If you're throwing that away, if doesn't have to be located in a mode] sales center, then ~t's going to have to be accounted for. I mean, -- COMMISSIONER VO[0PE: We]], we need to then -- the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, CO~,LIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 175 direction that I'd like to give to the staff, the consensus of the board is Mr. Dotrill used the sales center using a U.S. Home product or Region Park or Fox 'Fire or some or the others. I'll use Wyndemere. T'].] use HJde Away Beach. T used some of the others. T don't think the intent Js to a/]ow those centers to exist ad infinitum. T ;Dean, that's not what we've thought about. Some of those projects that are built-out somewhere and someone's going to be able to conduct a real estate sales office in my residential neighborhood and I don't like ~t. MR. BRUTT: They should close down at a point where they a]] -- COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: Well, you have to come back w~th some lange]age. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: All r~ght. ls that where we're going? COMMISSIONER HASSE: I think we have a reasonable ana]ys~s. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Spec] ~.ic d].rect]on on that particular phase. It's a different issue. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: All right. Is there any other OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 176 discussion on th~s ~item? (No resDonse.) CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: All right. This is going to -- the ULDC is going to be continued until October the 23rd. At 5:05 we have a Groundwater Protection Ordinance. We're go:ing to ]~sten for that for two hours. We will beg~n to h~ar th~s at seven o'clock and we will work from 7:00 i~nt~] 9:30. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: COMMISSIONER HASSE: CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: When's the 23rd? On Wednesday. Next Wednesday. We will work from 7:00 9:30 to try Ko finish this up and if we don't, then we']] set another date to finish COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: 7:00 and 9:30. MR. OLLIFF: We'll never f~nish between We don't have that many more speakers. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: No, but -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Before we adjourn -- just a second. Hold on. The Planning Comm~ss~on's been meeting on Friday evenings and putting ~n s~x hours at a flip t.o try to get this addressed. I don't have a problem with OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLI,IER COUNTY, NAPLES, 33962 ]77 the 23rd, but maybe we ought to meet before the 23rd at 5:05 and continue it. I mean -- MR. HOOVER: The Planning CommJssion's still on the second article and they haven't even opened it up except for two things. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You need to get up here and tell Ils what's ha[,p~n~ng so that we can -- MR. HOOVER: Well, I've represented a client and attended three bearings and wanted to talk abollt the zoning ordinance and I expected, you know, to be able to speak some time and I think I've been to probably hours of hearings yet haven't got to speak about anything eMcept landscaping, which I represented -- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You heard the discussJ. on that we should go to the 23rd at 5:05. Are you saying we need to have more meetings? MR. HOOVER: I'm just saying that in ten hours meetings or something like that [or the Planning Commission, they're stJ]] Jn the second article and they haven't discussed Arti. cle III. COMMISSIONER VOI,PE: You should probably address your remarks to Mr. Beardsley. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 MR. HOOVER: Tn some of the other sections, so I think if you t. hJnk you're goJ. ng to get through this six or eight hours -- COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: spent three hours. MR. HOOVER: MR. MERRILL: a lot of work here. We're not. We've already It's more like 15 or 20 hours. With all due respect, yeah, there We've had a number of public workshops where we didn't have any input from the gentlemen. We are finished with Articles I and IT. There's very little ~n Article III that at ]east the staff feels needs to be discussed. And the Planning Commission Js finished as far as-- COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How many hours, Mr. Merrill, do you think realistically -- you're our staff. How many hours do you th~nk we ought to think about allocating based upon the experiences that you've been through an(] the thirty hours that you've spent. Tell us so we have an 5dea of what we're looking at. MR. MERRILL: I've suggested that -- you know, T mean, it's -- we're beyond that. I suggested quite a few OFFICTAT, COURT REPORTERS, COI,I,IER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 1'79 more public workshops and hearings than what we're having, but we're so far beyond that. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I'm ask.ing you for hours. many do you think -- Commissioners, we need another estimated 15 hours to get. through it rea]ist~ica]]y. MR. MERRILL: I mean, if you're going to want to h~t jl]st the areas that seem be Jn controversy, then I would suspect probably another -- COMMTSSIONER HASSE: MR. MERRII,I,: No. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Two hours? Six to eJght hours? How MR. MERRILL: Probably another .~ix to eight hours. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Six to e~ght hours. So two hours is not going to be anywhere near enough a week from So we make it three hours then We'll work from 7:00 until What about tomorrow night.? What ~s tomorrow night, tonight. COMMISSIONER HASSE: and we can move -- CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: ~0:00. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Thursday or Friday? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COI,LIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FL 33962 180 COMMISSIONER HASSE: COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: P]anning Commission. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: That's out. How about. Monday night? Monday's out for me. MR. DORRILL: Leave it the way ~t is and we']] adjust when we to the next meeting. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: ~¢en, is there any possible way that we could hold th~s ~n the afternoon on Wednesday? MR. HERRILL: You could have a workshop in the afternoon. And that's what I suggested earlier, but -- Bill.? COMHISSIONER SHANAHAN: MR. MERRILI,: What was your suggestion, Havo. a workshop dl:ring the day. I don't know Jf you']] meet the notice requirements. Ken, what are your notice requirements for workshops? COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, having a workshop lik~~. that. defeats the real [n]rpose of doJng ~t ~n the evening. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: The workshops don't get us anyt. hJng, tho~]gh, Bill. We've got to have these. HR. MERRILl,: Well, you can have the public input at a workshop. OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COI.,I,IER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 COMMISSIONER HASSE: I know, but people work for a l~ving. We're not attorneys. MR. MERRILL: Believe me, I know. Thank you. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAW: So what are we going to do? CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: The only th~ng I know to do ~s we'll be here at 5:05 for the Groundwater Protection Ordinance and we'll work on that for a couple hours and then we'll work on this for three to four hours. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Could I suggest that maybe as an alternative can we push off the C, rol]ndwater Protection Ordinance? Is that going to cause a problem? MR. CUYI.,ER: No, we need to keep that. I talked to BJ]] -- MR. BEARDSLEY: That's another one where you're under the gun. MR. HOOVER: Maybe between the 23rd and the 30th put another extra meeting ~n there. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: What about the 23rd and the 30tb? Look at that r~ght now. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The 30th is the final hearing. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAW: Well, we've got the 30th, but somewhere between the 23rd and the 24th, P. 5th -- OFFICTAI, COURT REPORTERS, COI,LIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 182 COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, we've got the 23rd set. Why doesn't the Chairman and the manager's office and staff come up with other dates that we understand we're going to need eight to ten hours. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Before the 30th, Mike. COMMISSIONER HA,qSE: We need some time on our own here. MR. CUYLER: next Wednesday evening. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT: beca~]se -- MR. CUYLER: So this meet4ng is continued to 7:30 Well, actually seven o'clock Seven o'clock. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGIIT: Yeab, seven o'clock and then if we run over on the gro~ndwater protection then they can wait ~lntj] everybody can be here. A].] right. Seven o'clock next Wedr, esday. (Proceedings concluded.) OFFICIAl, COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962 October 16, 1991 There being no further business for the Good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by Order of the Chair - Time: 8:20 P.M. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL ATT~ST:"'~'.[,,. ,- ~ · :.' ~'t~'. ~.~hese m~n'~tes approved by the Board on ~~ as presented ~ or as corrected ATRI~ kHAIRMAN 1.83 STATE OF FLORIDA ) COUNTY OF COLLIER ) I, Christina J. Reynoldson, Deputy Official Court Reporter and Notary Public Jn an(] for the State of Florida at Large, do hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings were · taken before me at the (]ate and place as stated in the caption hereto on Page 1 hereof; that the foregoing computer-assisted transcription, consJst.ing of pages numbered 3 through 182, inclusive, is a true record of my Stenograph notes taken at said proceedings. Dated this 1st day of November, 1991. ristina J )D.,, ._. :~ :. Notary Pub] -~-~: ~ '' ~ !"> -: State of F1 ida ~.a~.'..~rg~ ..', .~ ~ .';'~ .' .... ~ ~ ....' Hy commission exp~e~'? ~ ~/~q/93 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COIINTY, NAPI,ES, FI, 33962