BCC Minutes 06/16/2000 B (Budget Workshop)June 16,2000
TRANSCRIPT OF THE BUDGET WORKSHOP OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, June 16, 2000
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and
having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:05 a.m. in
Building "F" of the
Administration Building,
members present:
Collier County
Naples, Florida,
Government
with the
Center,
following
CHAIRMAN:
Timothy J. Constantine
Barbara B. Berry
James D. Carter
Pamela S. Mac'Kie
ALSO PRESENT:
Thomas Oilill, County Administrator
Michael Smykowski, County Budget Director
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COLL!l?~R COUNTY GOVERNMENT
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMLqSIONERS
FY 2001 BUDGET WORKSHOP SCHEDULE (REVISED)
Wednesday, June 14, 2000 - 9:00 a.m-
General Overview
Ad Valorem Tax Implications
Debt Service Funds (200's)
Trust Funds (600's)
MSTD General Fund (111)
Special Revenue Funds (100's)
Enterprise Funds (400's)
Internal Service Funds (500's)
Capital Funds (~00's)
Friday, June 16, 2000 - 9:00 a.m-
General Fund (001) Overview
,General Fund Operating Di ,visions:
Courts & Related Agencies
BCC
County Attorney
Management Offices
Support Services
Emergency Services
Public Services
Community Development/Environmental Services
Public Works
Airport Authority Operations
Review of General Fund Supported Capital Projects
..C.,onsti.mulonal Officers:
Property Appraiser
Supervisor of Elections
Clerk of Courts
Sheriffs Office
June 16, 2000
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Good morning. Happy Friday. It's
time to go to the ad valorem portion of the budget. Hi, Mr. Smykowski. How are you?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Good morning. Happy Friday.
For the record, Michael Smykowski, county budget director.
We are going talk about the general fund today. In addition
to -- to programs and/or departments that are funded directly in
the general fund, we're also going to talk about quasi-general fund
departments that receive operating transfers in support of their
operations, such as EMS, road and bridge, et cetera. In addition,
we will cover the capital projects that are funded via transfer
from the general fund as well.
By way of orientation, if you would go to your summary book,
the general fund tab, Pages A-2 and A-3, is the macro overview of
the general fund. Page A-2 provides a summary of fund
appropriations. Page A-3 is the respective revenues that would
support general fund operations in fiscal year '01.
As I indicated in my opening remarks, the proposed millage
rate for the general fund is 3.5054, which represents a decrease
of 4 cents per $100, 000 taxable value from the millage rate of
3.5058 that was adopted in fiscal year '00.
What I would like to do at this point -- the court's
representatives had asked to be heard first prior to trials starting
this morning. So Judge -- Judge Hayes and Judge Blackwell are
here representing the courts, in addition, Mr. Middlebrook is here.
So I would like to have everyone turn to Page A-40, which is the
summary -- summary of court's administration budget for the
upcoming year.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And, knowing they are on a
schedule, we'll do that first. And then, after that, we're going to
do some public comment, anybody that wants to, prior to getting
started on this, we'll do public comment again just before we
break at lunch as well.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: That's fine. For administrative purposes,
we do have speaker sign-up slips on the other table. So if they
could be filled out and we'd be happy to call the speakers.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: This is all for you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. Thanks so much.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Good morning.
MR. MIDDLEBROOK: For the record, Mark Middlebrook,
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June 16,2000
senior deputy court administrator.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: You may need to drag that. Those
microphones aren't very good. So you may need to pull that a
little closer. Thanks.
MR. MIDDLEBROOK: For the record, Mark Middlebrook,
senior deputy court administrator with chief judge, Honorable
William L. Blackwell and circuit court judge, Judge Hayes.
We're here to answer any questions you might have regarding
our submissions.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Questions on the court budget?
Thank you very much. Pleasure to see you all this morning.
(Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Have a good day in court, Judge.
JUDGE HAYES: This is better than going to court.
(Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER BERRY:
questions?
JUDGE HAYES: No, no.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
while.
JUDGE HAYES:
Did you want us to ask you some
I could have held you on it for a
No, I get enough of those on the other--
other building.
MR. SMYKOWSKI:
court related agencies,
well as the, the judges.
On Page A-42 there are some additional
the state attorney, public defender, as
There is one expanded service on A-43 for
the state attorney's office, essentially re-configuring the office
area that they are moving into and purchasing a new phone
system and switchboard for their operation for 66 --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Everybody fine with those?
MR. OLLIFF: Just so the board is aware, on that state
attorney's re-configuration, the original request is over $80, 000
and we actually were able to find as much of that work that we
could do in-house through facilities management. It's already
being done upstairs. So the balance of that is what you see in the
budget as an expanded request.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Good way to spend the money.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Thank you. Now you would like to go to
public comment?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Yeah. Do we have anyone who
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June 16, 2000
has signed up for public comment before we go too far this
morning? And there will one other -- there will be another
opportunity as we take our lunch break today as well. I'll take
that as a no.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: We'll move right to A-6. That is the board
offices, the county attorney, the other general administrative
budgets. Expanded services are identified on A-7.
MS. FILSON: Good morning. I'm here to answer any
questions.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And who are you?
MS. FILSON: Won't be as easy as the previous.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: For the record?
MS. FILSON: Oh, Sue Filson, for the board.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Mr. Chairman, I have one item on
the Board of County Commissioners. Having served as a
representative to this particular group, I'm not sure that it
warrants us spending dues of $9,600 to the Coastal Coalition or
Coalition of Coastal Communities. And my reason for saying this
is that, as I attended the meetings, more and more it's smaller
coastal counties, and I'm not sure that they have the same types
of problems that we do. They certainly have difficulties, and they
probably are benefiting perhaps a little more than we are.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: We might benefit more if we had
just a Southwest Florida coalition as opposed to joining even with
the counties up in the Panhandle or -- as I said, we all have -- we
have situations that are similar but they are different because of
the size of our counties.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Any objection to taking that
9,600 out of the budget and focusing on the --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd like to take it out.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: -- Florida Association of Counties
instead?
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Yeah. I have no objection to that.
But sometimes I think we would be better to spend that money
with a lobbying activity in Tallahassee than to be a part of that
coalition.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: I agree.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: So --
COMMISSIONER BERRY:
Well, we gave it a try and this of
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June 16,2000
course was kind of -- we were enticed to do this by our senator,
Fred Dudley and --
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Right.
COMMISSIONER BERRY -- as long as Fred was going to be
there, I felt that we were going to be in good hands. But Fred
unfortunately departed the scene early on. And perhaps it's been
beneficial for the other counties, but I just don't think that this is
beneficial for Collier County. And I think $9,600 can be used other
places.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Sounds like it will be.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: I agree. I have reviewed our
administrator's budget. I think one area where we are
underfunded is in the area of organizational development. And,
looking at the number of people that are going to be coming new
to our office and the things that have been going on, I think it's
underfunded and I would recommend that she have a budget of at
least 2,500 or $3, 000 for the development of new people and for
herself, which she has a tendency to put aside and take care of
everybody else but Sue. And I really think that the success to
keeping good people in the organization is spending development
dollars on them to make sure that we train them and we that we
preen them and develop them and don't lose them. Because
latest statistics now are not 93 percent of a salary but it is like 18
months of your existing person, if you lose them. That's what it
costs you to replace and develop them before you get them up to
rather spend
speed. That is a very heavy number. And I would
2,500 or $3, 000 a year keeping good people.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: What do you
development, so that I understand?
envision as
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Well, there are certain courses
they attend to improve their technical skills. But also, in Sue's
case, she would be looking at enhancing her management skills in
running a much bigger operation, which she's going to have in the
next year. So that's what I perceive as money spent in the
personal development of the individual both technically and
managerially to enhance an operation.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Jim, I agree with you. I think that
the office has gotten bigger, the responsibilities are huge. And,
frankly, one of the oddities is that Ms. Filson doesn't really have a
supervisor and therefore has to sort of, you know, fend for herself.
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June 16,2000
I think that's managerial kind of training, some HR training,
there's some stuff that we could be doing better. And, in
particular, to retain the great staff that we have.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Right. And she does use the
resources that are most cost effective. Because, if you go to an
external organization, an AMA or some of these others, they will
charge you for one course can be close to $1, 000. She has been
able to use other sources through government programs and
university programs that are far
the same objective, so --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
Tom?
less expensive but accomplish
Do you have thoughts on that,
MR. OLLIFF: If the board wants to make that budget $2,500,
you would still end up with a net reduction of $7,600 as a result of
your actions this morning.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I'm just curious, when Ms. Filson
arrives here about 7:00 a.m. and leaves here at the end of the day
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: About 7:00 p.m.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: -- when's the free time going to
be to take those courses?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, and I agree. And you know,
that's why another area that I wonder about, if, you know, if we're
going to have adequate staffing is, I don't know what the number
should be but we need more of some backup staffing, a floater
kind of, is what we used to call it in a law firm, or some temporary
staffing so that when they do -- you know, when somebody is out
in our office, it's just -- everybody has to do everybody else's work.
There's no -- it's not very well organized from that perspective.
And so I don't know if we need some temporary staffing funding or
if we need a floater, what we need, but we need some backup
staffing too.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Well, I think what's happening in
this case is the span of control is 5 to 7, and what you have is a
person who is performing both the technical side and trying to
perform the managerial side. And as we add more people to
service the office for the needs of commissioners, she is going to
be what I consider a full-time manager. She can't continue to do
both.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right.
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June 16,2000
COMMISSIONER CARTER: That's the quickest way that I
know, as you are pointing out, Tim, to burn out a person.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I'm going to take chairman's
prerogative here and make a suggestion. We have a 600 million
dollar budget, and we probably don't need to have five-minute
conversations on every 2,500 bucks, unless there's some
argument. And, as we bring each item up, unless there's a
debate, we don't need to convince ourselves, let's just try to -- I
think everybody is with you on this one. And I think everybody
was with you on cutting the 9,600.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So do we need to do something
about -- to address Commissioner Constantine's concern and the
one that I sort of added to? Is there a line in this budget that
needs to also be increased for additional backup staffing, floater
or something to back up Sue when she's out being trained?
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Why don't you allocate X number of
dollars?
MS. FILSON: I do have a line item for other contractual,
which is temp employees, for 2,500.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So maybe that will --
COMMISSIONER BERRY: So why don't you increase that? If
you want to take some of this 9,600 that we've just cut, increase
it and let Sue -- and I don't know if she wants to work with the
manager or whatever, or the chairman, whatever, and decide
what she wants to do with that money, what would best serve and
what would best help her in that office. Because I certainly -- I'm
not going to sit up here and tell her what she needs. She knows
what she needs.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Absolutely.
MS. FILSON: And I think with the addition of the two
additional secretaries that will help relieve some of those
problems.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: That's what I would prefer to do
is -- let's see, we have a line item budgeted for that but we're
going to have a couple of extra bodies there which ought to be a
giant step in the right direction.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So see what you need to do and
give to us on wrap-up.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Right, because it will never
change the bottom line. It is just going to be a re-allocation of
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June 16,2000
funds.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: The other thing, I hope our
approach to the entire budget process is going to be, okay, we cut
something here which means we can or will add something
somewhere else.
MR. OLLIFF: Yes. And in fact I think with Sue's budgeted
amount for contractual services and, you know, attrition within
the budget, perhaps in terms of trying to hire some of those new
positions, there probably is enough. And there's also some pool
workers down in HR that we also have. So we will work with Sue
and then as part of the budget public hearings, we'll have that
finalized for you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: So we are showing a reduction of 9,600
for the coastal communities and 2, 000 increase for development
net decrease of $7,600.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But with that increased number
being flexible pending wrap-up when you guys tell us what we
need to know.
MR. OLLIFF: Right. Our goal is, unless there are some major
issues, that there may not be a need for a wrap-up session.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Right.
MR. OLLIFF: It depends on what's left. So we would do that
as part of the public hearing process in September.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Even better.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Let's just move on.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Management offices summary is on Page
A-11. There are no proposed expanded services. That represents
budgets for the county administrator, O and B, and board related
costs for printing of the agenda, et cetera.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just for ease, would you -- can
you give us the detailed page at the same time? I think in this
case, it's A-147
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Support services division summary is on
Page A-14. Expanded service requests are outlined on Pages A-t5
and A-16 for the board.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And the detailed pages are --
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Beginning on Page -- excuse me.
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June 16,2000
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: A-187
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Support services admin is A-22.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Go with the color coordinated. Pat made
it color coordinated.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's good.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: The light blue color.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Jean, can you explain to me just
public relations, marketing, expanded position?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes, commissioner.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Jean, you will need to talk into that
microphone. It's not very sensitive.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you. We need a person, we
believe, that can prepare and promote public education
campaigns, to inform the public of various county services and
how to access them, but also to tell the public some of the good
things that are going on. It's very difficult to get press on good
items. It's always easy to get the other kind. We believe that,
with a concerted effort, we can get some of those things into the
mainstream press. At the same time, we would like to be able to
work with community groups to access some of their groups to
explain some of the good things going on in county government.
The other thing is we do need someone to help on the press
side or on the newsprint side. We have one person who is doing
that. We've done -- we did 35 different publications last year.
She's also our photographer. I need someone to help relieve her
in that area to do the day-to-day news releases and things of that
sort.
Frankly, we're getting a lot more requests from the various
departments to help them show the good things that are going on
there, and whether the term marketing is a good term or not, to
help them get more to the public. We're also getting requests on
some training on how to deal with the press and how to be -- to
conduct an interview. And those kinds of things. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Mr. Chairman, I've only asked this
question once, and I'm sure Mr. Olliff has probably evaluated that
against the request for permanent positions versus contracting
externally. So I'm always asking that question, what is more cost
effective? I have no quarrel with the need but do we add people
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June 16,2000
to the payroll or do we contract out to provide the same service?
So I'll ask that once and if you are telling me that it's better to go
internal versus external -- well, that's it.
MR. OLLIFF: My recommendation is internal. I just think, in
this particular case -- I'll give you the best example, most recent
example. We just got done flushing lines at the end of Lely
Barefoot Beach and the utility staff themselves was trying to do
the education component of that with the residents of Barefoot
Beach. They are utilities guys. They don't do that very well. And
for me to be able to go to a contracted person and be able to
respond to that would be very difficult. You know, to have
somebody in-house that I can actually send there directly to the
utilities division and help them get that information out in a way
that
so that everybody in that neighborhood was aware of it,
would be very, very helpful for us.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I have another question, too.
we're kind of going through things so quickly that I'm not
And
sure
when I'm supposed to ask these questions. So I apologize, Mr.
Ghairman. You will tell me if I'm on the wrong page. One is the
effectiveness of -- how much of the $100, 000, I think is what we
allocated for the TV show last year, what did we actually spend?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: $65, 000 was allocated for that.
And we expect to spend all of that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And do we have any way to
measure the -- what do you call the readership when it's TV? Do
you we know if anybody is catching it? Do we know if it's
effective? Does anybody have any way of measuring whether or
not it's -- because that's just a big chunk of money. I wonder if it's
the right way to be spending it.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I don't know if you've watched
the show, it is very, very polished, very smooth.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes. Very nice.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And just informally, frankly, the
cable isn't going to get a reaction on Nielson. But from people
saying different things, ]eez, I didn't know. I'm amazed at how
many people watch these type meetings on Channel 54 but also
those type of things.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I agree.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I'm absolutely amazed at it.
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June 16,2000
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I agree about the meetings. I
have not heard a comment from a soul about the television show.
And I didn't know if others have or -- there's just no question
everybody is wanting to continue spending that money?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I do. I think it's a very effective
way to communicate.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: I think it's effective. I think we
just need to continue to upgrade what we do on that. And this
was kind of a test run. And the feedback I've gotten is the same
as Commissioner Constantine's, is that, hey, this is good, what are
you going to do next? Are you going to do more of this, et cetera?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Good.
COMMISSIONER CARTER:
A lot of people watch it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
calls today then.
COMMISSIONER CARTER:
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
So it seems like -- I am surprised.
I guess I'll be getting my phone
Yes, ma'am.
And the other -- 800 megahertz
administrator goes to zero. What is that?Has it been moved
somewhere or do I misunderstand that line?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: That was consolidating to information
technology. That was -- is frankly just an old line. There was
nothing in the adopted FY '00 budget as well.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: So that is zero right across the board. You
can frankly just eliminate that line.
MR. OLLIFF: Shouldn't be on your sheet.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I have questions on the
information technology portion. There's ten new bodies there,
unless I've under counted. Is that right? MR. OLLIFF: No, you're correct.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Didn't we see on our little slide
show the other day that it had gone from 3 to 16 or something like
that at this point? Ten just seems like a pretty substantial jump
all in one time, particularly as I read some of this. Some of these
things seem like they should be done by vendor, installing and
repairing hardware. Shouldn't the vendor be doing that instead of
our people?
MS. LEAMER: Joanne Leamer, support services.
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June 16,2000
We're broken up into three distinct groups, and I have each of
the managers here to talk about their needs in their group.
Maggie is with our project management area and her needs have
to do with new software that's going to be coming on.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Let's go through each of these. I
don't have too much trouble with the technical support for
business applications on Horseshoe Drive, a hundred and
thirty-four three. The next one I had put an X through, the 227,
000, as I read through it I just --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Before you pass that first one --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Sure.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -. my question was, anytime I see
community development services, I'm wondering, shouldn't it be
coming out of their fees instead of general ad?
MR. OLLIFF: It is, actually, a transfer into this budget.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you. So excuse me.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: No, that's a good question.
227, I need somebody to explain to me in great detail what
those three people are that we have zero people doing right now.
MR. BERRIOS: Mike Berrios, information technology.
The description in your book is not very good about what
those positions are. Those are three positions. The first position
is a network technology professional. That's like a network
administrator. They maintain the infrastructure behind the
scenes.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Is that --
MR. BERRIOS: I'm sorry?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Go ahead. I'll let you finish,
sorry.
MR. BERRIOS: And that increase is requested because in
1998 when we commuted to our current staffing level, we had
about 10 servers. We currently have 18 servers. So the workload
is pretty heavy. We have three people who currently maintain
that equipment and answer problems -- or answer questions, fix
problems and things of that nature. And this position is intended
to help with that workload to put in a tremendous amount of
overtime to accomplish the goals that we need to accomplish to
make sure everything works behind the scene.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: I'll give you --
MR. BERRIOS: The second position is a database that --
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June 16,2000
MR. OLLIFF: I'll give you a good example on that particular
position. Mike Berrios is primarily responsible for a lot of that
work today. And there is not a single day over the course of the
last 365 days that he hasn't been called to come in and provide
some support.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Wow.
MR. OLLIFF: Vacations, holidays, every single day.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Speaking of not burning out the
good employees.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Leave that beeper at home.
MR. BERRIOS: The second position is a database
administrator. We currently have about six or seven mission
critical database applications, including community development
services permitting, public utilities, work order management,
human resources. And we currently don't have any dedicated
staff to maintain the database and the integrity of the data.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's scary.
MR. BERRIOS: We're taking care of it in terms -- with the
resources that we have but we obviously cannot do everything
and a lot of things are not being done.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: So would this person then
coordinate all of this? You know, you say administrator. That
implies to me that we've got somebody who is coordinating all of
that with the other people, so we know what we are doing here.
MR. BERRIOS: It's more -- that's just a term that's used in the
industry. It's more of a technical position associated with making
sure the databases are running properly, making sure they are
running as fast as they can, understanding where in the county all
the data lives so that when you have requests for information or
the public has requests for information, there's someone who can
tell you where all of that information is and help put together the
reports that give you the answers that you need to have.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That sounded -- sounds like, in the
absence of that, we've spent a lot of money that we're not using
effectively.
MR. BERRIOS: Yes. Yes, I think that is true.
And then the third position is a security network
administrator, for lack of a better term. And that person would be
responsible for making sure that the infrastructure is secure,
things like the viruses, Love Bug, all the virus things. And that's
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June 16,2000
picking up dramatically. You are seeing more and more of that
type of problem. The risk of hackers, to use a term that's in the
press, people who might want to try to attack the computer
systems that we currently have. And as we move forward with
trying to do business with the citizens of the county over the
Internet and we need to be able to provide the public with
information that's stored inside our network, that becomes
increasingly important, especially as we may move to collecting
things like water bills and things likes that. And there's a very big
exposure. We just don't have the staff to deal with it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Those seem like important --
COMMISSIONER CARTER: And I would assume that if we get
a virus, that we wouldn't even want to talk about the numbers it
would cost us.
MR. BERRIOS: It could be very bad. We have managed to do
a pretty good job. We can't say that we haven't had problems, but
we've managed to deal with them. But that's -- a number of very
large companies have been shut down by viruses.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I would like to see what you
were saying, more ability for people, for example, to pay their
water bills over the net. And as we do that we've got to be more
attentive to security. So those three sound strong to me, too.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: I'm there.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: A request below that, 279,8, I'm
wondering a couple of things. If you can describe the five for me
but also the brief description looks remarkably similar to the
direct client support description.
MS. BUCK: It does, doesn't it? Those people are --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: For the record, of course, you
are?
MS. BUCK: For the record, I am Sue Buck with information
technology.
Those people are simply to cover the volume of people that
are using computers now. They have more than doubled in the
past five years, whereas the staffing has not.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: This is the slide that we saw that
said sort of the industry standard is one to something and --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: 75, and we were at 106. What
does this put us at?
MS. BUCK: The slide that you say the other day included
Page 14
June 16,2000
people who are working on hardware who aren't actually working
on -- in the help line or assisting people with software needs.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And if we include those people
again, what will it put us at now?
MS. BUCK: Well, in 2000 we calculate the ratio I to 125.
With adding the new people we will be at I to 85.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And that's including using these
-- are you comparing apples to apples?You are counting
everybody, you are not just counting --
MS. BUCK: Correct.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Just changing the formula?
MS. BUCK: Not changing the formula.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It still keeps us above what the
industry's recommendations are of 175.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I don't think that industry
standard --
MS. BUCK: The one thing that should be noted is just within
the last six months of the year we added 8 percent, 50 new PCs.
The number of PCs keeps growing. That isn't a stagnant number,
so--
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Is there a build-out number
there? I mean, we have a particular growth rate for employees,
but, other than adding a handful at some point, you are not going
to have another 100 or 200 year after year after year. What is the
likely growth rate of that?
MS. BUCK: Well, this past year particularly it was really very,
very high. The growth rate, I'm hoping, will even off. It seems to
be one of those things that's very hard to predict. And along with
that, we now are expected to support other things that go with
these computers, the Compaq arrows, the scanners, the printers.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Send mine back.
MS. BUCK: CD burners, zip drives. None of those items are
even included in this 650-plus computers that we support. We
now have certain
need for laptops.
carrying laptops
officers, builders
increasing.You
increasing.
next year.
high profile county employees that have the
So along with a desktop, some of them are
out in the field. Some of the enforcement
inspectors take laptops with them. So it's
know, there are very different arms of this
It's very difficult to project what's going to happen
Page15
June 16, 2000
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: How confident are you -- help me
understand what the I to 75, the ratio. Was that an industry
average, an industry standard, a private enterprise versus
government? Where -- how good that number as a benchmark?
MS. BUCK: That was a figure that we solicited from various
professional help desk organizations that took both of those
entities into consideration, government agencies as well as large
corporations, and they all came up with something pretty much
right in that ballpark. And that was an average that we took. We
took probably three or four month's worth of information from
various agencies and actually came up with that number.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: When we showed the other day
the industry average as 75, is that government or is that all --
because -- and I know where you are going, but I mean, is that Art
Allen's company--
MS. BUCK: It's both government agencies
companies, like IBM, insurance companies, private
small people. We try to take an average of everyone.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Do we have statistically
average for government functions?
I don't know that I have that all by itself.
CONSTANTINE: That would -- would it
MS. BUCK:
CHAIRMAN
available?
MS. BUCK:
CHAIRMAN
Uh-huh.
CO N STANTI N E:
was -- we were at I to every 106.
employees?
and large
industries,
the
be
And the other day you said it
That was based on how many
MS. BUCK: That was actually based on six, including the
manager of the department, I believe.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Because I just asked you, are we
comparing the same thing, you said yes, and we are not.
Because, if you take -- and you just said there were 650 of these.
MS. BUCK: We're now way up over that. But --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: If you take six and you add five
people to it, that's 11.
MS. BUCK: Uh-huh. What we --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: We are now at 900 units, we've
added 250 this year or --
MS. BUCK: The one that's --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
It's a fairly simple question. I
Page 16
June ~6,2000
mean, either we're using the same formula or we're not. And, if
we are not, then I want you to explain to me why not. MS. BUCK: 625.
MS. LEAMER: This was -- the slide was based on six staff
members and 625 work stations.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And how many work stations do
we have now?
MS. LEAMER: We are up to approximately 675 with five
people actually supporting those work stations. There's one
person who just does hardware. There's another person, Sue
Buck, who is purely in the management end.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: But if we add 5, that then
becomes 10, which is 62.5 per work station.
MS. LEAMER: Two people will be working on hardware next
year. That will be approximately I to 337.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:Oh, was nobody working on
hardware this year?
MS. LEAMER: We had one.
MS. BUCK: We have one person working on hardware.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Because you're jumping all over
with numbers here. If you're including hardware, you had six
employees in this 625 number you have in front of you. So either
you are consistent and you continue to include hardware or you
don't. You can't take it away and then say wow, we have -- we
come up with a worse number.
MS. BUCK: I can clarify that. There's actually four help line
people that cover, if you want to use 650 or 675, either way.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Let me tell you how I interpret
this. You are going to double the number of people working on
hardware, you are going to double the other people, and you are
not coming anywhere near doubling the number of units, you are
adding whatever you just told me, 50 more units, so --
MR. OLLIFF: Let me point out, too, that we haven't added any
staff to this department in two years. We added one person in
two years that has nothing to do with the support side. MS. BUCK: Right.
MR. OLLIFF: I will tell you that, from an operational
standpoint, when I looked at the organization, this was one of the
places where I think we have become very reliant on our ability to
do the work and I am critically concerned about our ability to
Page 17
June 16,2000
support this.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I don't disagree. I just want to
have the same numbers each time.We're not being -- it's not
being communicated consistently.
MR. OLLIFF: That's fair.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And, secondly, if that comes out
to 62.5 not 85, point something, which is considerably below, and
maybe we want to be better than the industry standard but the
numbers --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sounds like that -- the math is
pretty darn simple, unless we're getting something wrong here.
Right now, taking out the hardware, you got five to 675. Yes?
Stop me when I'm wrong.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: No. You've got 5 to 625.
MS. BUCK: There's six people in the section. One is the
manager. That brings us to five. One is the hardware person who
just does hardware. That's where you need to take him out.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. So we got four --
MS. BUCK: Four people supporting everyone.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: To how many work stations?
MS. BUCK: 675.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Four to 675.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: So the slide for the presentation
yesterday was completely inaccurate?
MS. LEAMER: It wasn't comparing apples and apples. The
industry average that they developed, the I to 75, was based on
pure help people working in --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTI N E:Doesn't
management?
MS. LEAMER: Correct.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:And our management doesn't
help at all?
MS. LEAMER: She does.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I know they do. I know you do,
Sue. I mean, you are down here working on ours, so -- MS. BUCK: Right. Yes.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: If you're doing that, I would hope
that we would count that in there.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So it seems to me we really ought
to give it, say, 5 to 675, because a manager is not going to be
include any
Page 18
June 16,2000
purely managing. So 5 to 675 is what we have today. We're
adding 5 positions, if we fund all of these. So it will be 10 to what,
because we're going to increase the work stations by how many?.
MS. LEAMER: Say -- if you took eight people working on --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No, no, no. Stay with me with my
question.
MR. OLLIFF: How many total units will we have next year?.
MS. LEAMER: We are currently at 675. If we add an
additional hundred, probably, over the next year with staffing
increases and --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I don't understand why you can't
tell me a number that we're likely to have. I never got an answer
to my previous question. Is there a build-out number here?
Whether you add Compaqs and things or not, there's still a
specific number of work stations. They may have other uses to go
with them.
MR. OLLIFF: I can't tell you that.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: But at some point we have to
know, okay, there are -- we have a thousand lobs, 800 of them are
likely at some point to get work stations.
MR. OLLIFF: I can't tell you that. And I'll give you a couple of
good examples why. One of the things that we're looking at this
year, for example, is a automated meter reading system where
your meter reader, instead of going to each individual house, can
actually drive down the street at 45 miles an hour and pick off the
meter readings without ever having to get out of his truck. That's
a whole new program that's going to involve probably a half a
dozen different computers that are then going to be a brand-new
program. Example, last year, the animal control, when we
automated animal control, it may be one of those functions that
originally we would not have anticipated doing, but now animal
control officers can come in and dump their information at the end
of the day on a computer and it allows us to prepare the database.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: What is this book?
MR. OLLIFF: It's your budget.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: For?
MR. OLLIFF: Fiscal year '01.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: So we ought to have in here
some idea OF what's going to be '01. And when I hear, I don't
know, we might add a hundred, somewhere in this book I ought to
Page19
June 16,2000
be able to tally up, it's 20, it's 50, it's 100, that --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: For next year.
MR. OLLIFF: I agree.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: That way you'll have an idea of
how many next year.
MS. BUCK: If we go by the past year's statistics, we've been
averaging 100 computers a year. So if you --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: So where did the 625 come from
on the slide that we are now at 675? Was that -- did that 50 just
pop up in the last six months?
MS. BUCK: 625 was what we had when all this paperwork
was starting to be created. In the past three months there were
at least 40 computers purchased, which is bringing us closer to
the 675 mark.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And for the year 2001, how many
show in this budget as being added, whether it's the utility guys or
somebody sitting at a desk?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: How many are budgeted to be
purchased?
MS. LEAMER: We don't have their budget information built
into our budget. I don't know how many for our budget.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: How can you plan --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I see. They are by departments.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: We don't have that totalled up. So I'll tell
you what. Why don't we -- your numbers show that if we reduce
the software support by one, we are down to somewhere around
that industry standard. Let's take one of those software support
people out for now. And if we go back and we do an apple to
apple comparison for the public hearings in September, you can
make a decision based on actual accurate information.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And sometime in the next few
days, can we find out how many we intend to add for that? MR. OLLIFF: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: It just kind of scares me, if your
job is to support that and nobody has informed you of how many
you're likely to see added on in the next year. MR. OLLIFF: That's fair.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: That's a tough way to plan.
MR. OLLIFF: That's fair.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's fair.
Page 20
June 16,2000
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Next item is the 24,500 request
for funds in program administration to pay for advertisement in
the recruitment process and the cost of office supplies. I don't
know about office supplies, but recruitment process, shouldn't
that be in HR anyway?
MR. OLLIFF: No. We don't have recruitment money in the HR
budget. And what we're trying to do is, for those few positions
where we have an exceptionally difficult time trying to fill them,
IT in particular is one of those areas, we feel like we need to get
out and be a little more aggressive about trying to get some of
these positions filled.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: One question on this IT budget for
personnel is, how in the heck are you going to find that many
qualified people to add them this year? It's a very competitive
market. I don't know how you are going to find them.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Let me stay on my question for a
minute.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: They're related, as you can see.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: You're right. But shouldn't that
go out of the -- it may be for the IT position, but shouldn't that go
through human resources? If we have a handful of positions, I
would still hope human resources is the one who is focused on
how to do it -- do they know how to do it, where to do it?
MR. OLLIFF: They do it. The actual bills, for example, for a
trade journal, they get billed back to the department who actually
pays the bill, simply so that, from a tracking standpoint, we know
that's how much it cost us to run IT.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And then the question of, are we
going to be -- my budgeting question was, okay, we need this
number of people. What are the odds that we're going to be able
to hire this many people this year, are we over budgeting or am I
going to see a big carry forward in this item next year because
you can't hire ten great new people in this field?
MS. LEAMER: We're already starting to talk to HR about
doing some recruitment in the summer, trying to get the word out
there, going to the universities, doing -- talking to their career
people.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What's attractive about coming to
the county that makes us able to get network administrators
Page 21
June 16,2000
instead of, you know, big firms? I just don't know how we're going
to be able to hire them.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Sunny 358 days a year, seriously.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Say it again?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Sunny 358 days a year.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: I don't think that cuts it anymore.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I think a 22-year-old kid still likes
the sun.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: They may like the sun, but if they
are
working inside, they ain't going to see it.
MR. OLLIFF: Yeah. We'll recruit in Michigan in February,
trust me. But I think, you know, what we are going to try and do
here is, we're showing you the need. You know, we'll be as
aggressive as we can to try and fill that need. But I don't think we
ought to under budget simply because we don't think that we can
get those positions filled.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Except for, you know, that we tax
and collect this money, and if the odds -- what are the odds we
can actually spend this money this year? I don't want to tax for it
if we can't.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Well, they will spend it. You're
asking whether we'll be successful.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's what I mean. They won't
spend it if they can't hire the people. It will be vacant, unfilled
positions.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Well, that's not the way I read it.
They are looking to use that money in a wide variety of ways to
try to get to the end result. It's like asking Art Allen's group, will
you get all the people you need this year?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And the answer will be no, they
won't get all of the people they need and --
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Unless they aggressively recruit
and spend money to go and find them. And -- CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: In the next four months,
Joanne, will you find nine bodies to fill those positions? MS. LEAMER: We are going to do our best.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: What do you think
professionally, what do you think the likelihood of that is?
MS.
LEAMER: It's difficult, but what I have learned is we're
Page 22
June 16,2000
not recruiting very heavily at the universities which do have
technology programs. So I need to get out there and talk to those
career development people and find out what they are doing with
their people.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Joanne, what's the starting salary?
MS. LEAMER: Depends on the position.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:Network administrator, for
example.
MR. OLLIFF: And you just recently, as part of your pay plan
adjustments, made some pretty serious changes.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: I just want to know. I want an
answer.
MR. OLLIFF: The other thing that I need to point out is that,
keep in mind, organization wide, you only budget about 96 percent
of your total payroll because we take attrition off the top, and this
is factored into what we --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'll bet you a dollar attrition in this
kind of area is going to be more than 4 percent.
MR. OLLIFF: You're right. But it's balanced
department that's not 4 percent. That's what
Organization wide, we only budget 96 percent.
out by another
we're saying.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I guess I'm wondering why, you
know, we -- even if we want all of these positions and we
authorize them all, we shouldn't budget 75 percent of their total
cost and -- because we're not going to have them all on October
1st.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Excuse me.Unless I'm chopped
liver, I think I have a question here.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Forgive me.
MS. LEAMER: Yes. In answer to your question, around 50,
000, which is above the minimum.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: How much?
MS. LEAMER: Around 50, 000, which is above the minimum.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: That is for a --
MS. LEAMER: Network type position.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And obviously I far oversimplify
when I say the sun, but I will tell you, we do have a great
community. If a kid can come here --
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Oh, sure.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: -- and make a good living or go to
Page 23
June 16,2000
Detroit and make a good living, there's a chance. You know, I
came here taking less salary than I could have had elsewhere out
of college to come here.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: I think you need to look within the
community as well because if you are going to offer those kinds of
dollars and somebody doesn't have to relocate, I think that's
important too, so --
MR. OLLIFF: I'll tell you two things, too. We wouldn't put
them in here if we didn't think that we could fill them. And we'll
have to make some decisions in the middle of year if we can't get
them filled to find another way to do this work.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: I think it's a management call and
I'm with it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'll let it go.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: The next page
resources. Any question on those expanded items? MS. MAC'KIE: What page are you on now?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: A-16 in the summary book.
MR. OLLIFF: Questions on HRR facilities management.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: These are in addition to
current positions that we have, right? MR. OLLIFF: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Request to
is human
the
-- for additional
building maintenance to outsource regular filter changes. Haven't
we had this discussion before? $60, 000 to have somebody
outside do that instead of our own guys?
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Good morning, Commissioners. For the
record, Daniel Rodriquez, acting facilities management director,
support services division.
Basically what we're looking at with this program is, we
currently have three technicians in the field. That's three HVAC
technicians for some hundred and some structures. What we're
trying to do is bring consistency into our filter change program.
During the spring months and the summer months, when our
workload for HVAC technicians increases, we have a tendency to
back off on filter changes to take care of the on demand call for
air compressors and air handlers and things like that.
And in addition to changing the filters, which total about 12,
000 a year -- that's a lot of filters, there are -- we're looking at
incorporating preventative maintenance, inspecting the air
Page 24
June 16,2000
handlers, the belts, indoor quality issues.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: How many buildings have we
added in the last year?. And I ask that because we have had this
discussion as far as -- you mentioned there are three people doing
that. I don't remember what year, but we have increased that
from two or one. And I'm wondering, you know, if we need to add
another body, that would probably be cheaper than $60, 000. I'm
just -- I don't completely follow the amount of the expense. I don't
question the need. I just don't completely follow the --
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Right. If we add another body, that's $65,
000. But it's a lot easier for me to call a contractor and make him
adhere to the contract to make sure that those filters are changed
on a regular basis. When I have an employee that's sick, they are
on vacation, you back up, and priority calls come first.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: How many buildings have we
added in the last year?.
MR. OLLIFF: The other concern is, if I add the
probably have to add the associated vehicle to get that
from --
body, I
person
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I'm sorry. I didn't hear you.
MR. OLLIFF: I probably have to add the associated vehicle to
get that person all around the county between place to place as
well. If I can contract that out for the same price as my base
salary plus benefits, it's probably a better deal.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I'm just wondering if -- and
maybe we've added a lot in the last year. But if we added a
position or two in the last couple years and we haven't added a lot
in buildings, I'm wondering what happened. It doesn't seem --
MR. RODRIGUEZ: I can tell you, on square footage, since '93,
'94, we were at 944, 000 square feet. We're now up to 1,646, 000
square feet.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And how many people did we
have doing this type thing in 1993 and '94?
MR. RODRIGUEZ: 1993, '94, we had 18 crafts. We actually
had five HVAC.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And now we have three?
MR. RODRIGUEZ: Well, HVAC, I'm sorry. We had three in '93,
'94. The other two are a plant operator and a supervisor. The
managers and contractors.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: This math makes sense to me,
Page 25
June 16,2000
Tim.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Yes. I don't-- I apparently
completely imagined the addition to that in the last couple years.
Maybe we had the discussion and didn't add them. I don't know. I
remember a long detailed discussion on HVAC and -- okay.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Page A-18 and A-19 is the emergency
services division summary. Proposed expandeds are outlined on
A-19 and A-21.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Six helicopter pilots. How many
do we have now? That may be necessary. I don't know.
MR. STORR: Yes, sir. For the record, Tom Storr, emergency
services administrator.
Right now we have two part-time pilots and we're going to
hire the -- interview for our last full-time position, which would
bring us to four full-time and two part-time that need to be trained
in the new helicopter.
MR. OLLIFF: We're not increasing the number
We're actually just trying to train them in the new craft.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Right.
MR. OLLIFF: The primary expansion here is the
of pilots.
additional
unit for Gray Oakes. And I do need to point out, even though
that's not going to be constructed, that was the question I had.
Until the end of the year, by the time we get construction started
on that site, the call volume in the area leaves us exposed so
many times that we believed it was warranted to add the staff and
put them into the existing locations that are supporting that area.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I don't have questions about the
expanded services. I just wanted to get reminded again at what
ratio does ad valorem support EMS versus the fee, and is there
ever -- I know this is not a popular thing to say, but how long since
we raised the fee for EMS and when do we --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Actually, that's a great question.
The one thing we've done, and I don't know if you have it included
in this year's budget or not, is adjust as Medicare reimbursement
adjusts each year.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: At least that.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: We went a couple of years in the
early nineties where they did not make that adjustment, so we
were picking up what we didn't need to. And three or four years
ago, we set the policy of each year reviewing that and, as they
Page 26
June 16,2000
increased their reimbursement, we increased what the local pay
is, and so that our share is always the minimal it needs to be.
Have we figured that into this as well and what are the new
reimbursement numbers?
MR. OLLIFF: I don't know that we figured it into this budget.
I know that we recently just adjusted the rates based on
Medicaid. In fact, since I've been sitting here, I remember that
being as part of the agenda.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Do you remember that?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Absolutely.
MR. AGUILERA: Good morning. For the record, George
Aguilera, training commander for your EMS department.
I believe there was recently -- with the Department of
Revenue, there were some re-adjustments to include the new
Medicare/Medicaid billing schedule, as well as the addition of
mileage charge of, I think it's four or five dollars per mile with a
cap on it. And that just, I believe, happened sometime last year.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Can we confirm those numbers
when that was and when they are likely to be updated again
before we finish the hearing today?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I agree. That policy certainly
needs to be implemented. My question is on the policy itself,
about whether or not -- if I understand it, Medicare is very rarely
going to pay for an emergency transport because Medicare
basically covers pregnant women and children under 12. MR. OLLIFF: That would be Medicaid.
MR. AGUILERA: That would be Medicaid. Medicare is the
elderly. It is somewhat limited in what they actually reimburse for
transports for emergency care.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But, as far as Medicare, the
average transport in a 65-year-old male with a heart attack, does
Medicare reimburse us on a regular basis for those transports?
MR. AGUILERA: I believe, yes. The answer for that is yes. I
mean, I think Medicare, for the emergency transports and care,
has been really successful. We are at what Medicare reimburse,
so as long as we do the billing correctly, Medicare has been pretty
good and actually paying for those transports.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And what about --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And just by way of review, what
we had done was increase our pay each year to match that --
Page 27
June 16,2000
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh, yeah.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: -- so that if somebody doesn't
have that, the level that is paid in by the customer is the same,
whether they are covered by Medicare or not. MR. AGUILERA: Correct.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And what about private insurance;
what's the average pay? Do they pay -- does that -- private
insurance cover a Medicare payment amount? Is it the same?
MR. AGUILERA: Yes. Private insurance companies usually
follow the lead of Medicare and what their billing schedules are.
So they are very similar.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So I guess that policy remains
appropriate. So then my question goes back, is, what is the --
what percentage of that trip is paid for by the person receiving
the service and what percentage of it is paid for by ad valorem
tax?
MR. OLLIFF: On average, your budget was supported through
the general fund by about 63, 64 percent last year, and Mike is
telling me 63 percent this year. So your ad valorem support has
actually gone up by I or 2 percent this year.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And the dollar amount associated
with that is what?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: General fund transfer has gone up from
7.1 to 7.2, about $600,000.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So we spend $600, 000 of general
tax money to provide ambulance service at the Medicare rate to
the public?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Correct.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just want to get the picture
clear. And, again, to check on that question of, are we charging
the Medicare rate to be sure we still are moving that up every
time it moves.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: We can have that before we
leave today.
MR. STORR: Commissioner Constantine, just to answer your
question. Medicare did have a rate increase in January. We will
get the hard numbers for you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And be sure they are factored into
the budget. And I'll -- okay. So you're clear on the instruction.
I think the grant coordinator is a great idea.
Page 28
June 16,2000
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Can you explain that in some
detail, because obviously, you know, John Drury has been the
poster boy for grants and so on, and I think the board is more
open to it. But just tell us what you had in mind there.
MR. STORR: Well, that position, obviously we have been very
fortunate to take advantage of grant monies in the past to fund
programs and some of the stuff that's made us real successful as
a provider. That is becoming an increasingly more specific area
to write grants and there's actually more grants out there than we
can actually get to successfully. So the point of this person is to
get the person dedicated, trained, to start taking advantage of
more of these grants that are actually available to us. As well as,
with pretty much everybody in the county, we wear multiple hats.
There are some extra needs with that position that we look to
also take advantage of as with the AED program. Your AED
program has been enormously successful. At this point in time
we have about 80 active sites. We've deployed actually over 130
machines. We've trained over 1,800 people. And all of these
activities, as it expands, has some support functions attached to
that we have to be able to supply through ordinance. And as well
as --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
some of that?
MR. STORR: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
That person would
help cover
You're answering the question
And obviously you've got other
And for the audience, AED is an
before I ever ask it, and that was, I just couldn't imagine sitting 40
hours a week working on grants.
MR. STORR: Correct, yes.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
things in mind for him.
COMMISSIONER CARTER:
acronym for--
MR. STORR: Oh. It's the acronym for automated external
defibrillators.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I -- one other the question on that
EMS budget is, I have heard from the health care community that
there is -- there was a drug that should be in ambulances for heart
attack victims that we are not -- that it would cost a million
bucks, and we are not putting it in and people are going to die. I
Page 29
June 16,2000
mean, I have had just really vocal objection to the fact that we
are continuing to pay-- use a drug that's behind the curve on
what's available and we're --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Have we had anybody die
because of this?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, we have all of these medical
protocols. I mean, supposedly docs in this community are going
to send me information that says medical protocol is that there's
this drug that should be given immediately and if it's not, more
people are going to die. And we're not doing it because it's more
expensive, and we can get them to the ER and let the hospital do
it. But that the medical protocol is that --
COMMISSIONER BERRY: What does Dr. Tobor say about this?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm sorry?
COMMISSIONER BERRY: What's Dr. Tobor say about this?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That was my question, is, what
does Dr. Tobor have to say about that million dollar cut in the EMS
budget? Because you asked for it, as I understand it. You asked
for the drug and Tom cut the drug.
MR. OLLIFF: It was a $78, 000 request for the drug. What I
asked EMS to do was to go back and prioritize their request and I
gave them a budget figure to go achieve, and, actually, frankly, I
asked them for a I percent reduction in their operating budget.
The items that you see is their expanded service request are a
higher priority to them than was the $78, 000 for that drug. They
did indicate that their rate of getting patients to the hospital and --
on heart related cases is frankly very high. And that was the
decision. That was a priority decision that they made.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And if we get irrefutable
evidence that that's necessary, I bet our folks would work on that.
But I know nothing about medicine and I don't think anybody on
this board knows anything about medicine, and I hope that we're
not going to try to second guess how and what you do there. I
assume you know what's necessary and what's not. If we get
information from the doc, let's pass it on and --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, that's the reason I'm asking
the question is I've gotten some information from doctors that
raised the question. And I want to hear, did Dr. Tobor agree with
the prioritization of the--
MR. OLLIFF: Dr. Tobor recommended that this be in the
Page 30
June ~6,2000
budget.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: He wants this --
MR. OLLIFF: He recommended $78, 000 in the budget for this
drug. And he recommends that you will have better results if you
put this in place.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
there.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
Then I think that it might belong
Let's red flag it and talk to Dr.
Tobor and other people about it and -- because it's just -- there's
always more than one side to a story. And, while we want to be
safe, we don't want to assume the worst either.
MR. OLLIFF: We'll make that a first public hearing item for
you in September.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Mobile command vehicle. What's
the latest and greatest on the Winnebago?
MR. RODRIGUEZ: I'm not familiar with the mobile command
vehicle.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: I don't see it.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: The backup emergency off
center and mobile command vehicle.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Are you in the detail book, Tim?
A-50, I think.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Page 48.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: In the detail book.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Can provide on scene support for
the incident commander.
MR. OLLIFF: George?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: What do we have for our mobile
command vehicle?
MR. AGUILERA: The mobile command vehicle we have right
now is a large motor home type vehicle that is signed out of
emergency management. And I can tell you, it gets used quite
frequently. Most recently it was used on the North Naples fire.
We had it out there for, I think, almost two days. I was present at
that fire scene. And it's an incident command vehicle where all of
the disciplines that respond to those type of incidents operate out
of it. It has total communications, with cell phone, radios, fax
machines and all of that, that provides that vital link back to the
emergency services community.
Page 31
June 16,2000
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: What exactly do we spend $75,
000 on maintaining the mobile command vehicle?
MR. AGUILERA: I know some of the maintenance issues are
electronics upgrades. We have to maintain those. Gary Arnold,
who is one of our primary individuals who cares for that vehicle, is
constantly looking at the electronics packages in it, the routine
maintenance on it. It is a large vehicle. It does require some
maintenance upkeep.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm trying to think how you spend
75 grand a year to run it, though. I mean, I don't question that it's
very important. We need to have it. It's very useful. I just --
MR. SMYKOWSKI: That includes the staff cost. If you'll
notice, it does include .an FTE .there on Page A-48. That's
allocated cost of that ent,re operat,ng budget to that program. So
it is more than simply $74, 000 to -- in maintenance costs on an
annual basis. That is not the case.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: That'sa
emergency services department?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: That is, yes.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: And you also
maintenance. Does that fall under this 74,6?
maintaining a web page?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Not a lot.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Not much.
person in the
have a web page
What's the cost of
MR. OLLIFF: Not much, because it's Gary Arnold that does it.
So it's part of what Gary does.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Speak of the devil. Ken Pineau
here to save the day.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Gary's brother, Ken.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: His evil twin, Skippy.
MR. PINEAU: For the record, Ken Pineau, emergency
management director.
There's a lot of other jobs in that one-third of a position,
actually, that we do. The maintenance of the mobile command
vehicle, that's taking very few dollars, actually --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right.
MR. PINEAU: -- on an annual basis. That pays his salary, his
benefits. And this is something that we haven't -- it's not an
expanded. This is something we have been doing year after year.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So is there one-third of a person in
Page 32
June 16, 2000
that 76,6 or is there a whole person in that?
MR. PINEAU: Well, there's -- there's a whole person. I'm
sorry, yes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. That kind of answers the
question for me, for the maintenance of an RV.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: And it does for me. And I can
understand. I mean, as rapidly as we're developing software and
equipment that can help us in these areas. I mean, what you put
in today is probably outdated tomorrow. I'm pleased that we've
got somebody that's on top of that, so --
MR. PINEAU: Gary Arnold's -- in fact, we're all on call 24
hours a day. And we couldn't -- if you're going to reduce one
person, I don't think we could, could operate. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Everybody okay with that?
COMMISSIONER CARTER: I'm okay.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Fine.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Thank you.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: That moves us to public services division
summary on Page A-23. Expanded services are outlined on A-24
through A-26. In a large part the expanded services here are
driven by new capital facilities coming on line. The expanded
domestic animal facilities component on Davis Boulevard. And, in
the case of the Collier County library, you have obviously the
North Regional Library expansion.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Thank you. Questions on any of
that?
Are we rationing up our books -- when we get to library are
we rationing -- I'm fine.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
services.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
I don't have anything on
It's easy today.
animal
On library, are we rationing up our -- we're going up 05, I
think, in the collection every year; is that right? MR. JONES: John Jones, public library.
We're right on target. I get confused because you're adding
so many digits to it. I think it's 1.30725 right now.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Which is great, because we used
to be -- I think we were at 1 --
Page 33
June 16,2000
MR. JONES: 1.05.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: One point zero. Yeah.
MR. JONES: And in the last two years, I have been backing
off holding so that we put the collection in the new branch. We
will not exceed, lump way up.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I don't have any other library
questions. Just my usual one, is that as fast as you can add
them?
MR. JONES: We won't spend the money any quicker.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
MR. JONES: We're buying what we need.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: When do you break ground for the
new library again?
MR. JONES: Right now it's scheduled for October, but we are
at the mercy of animal control and their buildings. We were ready
to go six months ago.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: It will immediately follow the completion
of the DAS facility.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Get the animals out, move the
books in.
MR. JONES: The present schedule calls for us to be open
November '01.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Good.
MR. OLLIFF.' He's actually already done design on that
building, so he's ready to go.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Should we see the architect here?
Does it look anything like that Golden Gate building?
MR. OLLIFF: You'll like this one.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
MR. JONES: It's a Spanish mission. The Spanish mission has
a courtyard with an amphitheater in the courtyard and a bell
tower. Very attractive.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay, good. No more Star Wars
buildings.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Community development,expanded
services on our--
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: No. We are still in --
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Excuse me.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh, yeah, we're still --
Page 34
June 16,2000
COMMISSIONER BERRY: What page?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: We're through library.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: 827 is where I am.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Me, too. The extension service,
$20, 000, that whole thing is offset completely by United Way.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: 100 Percent, and Mr. Olliff was very clear
when he approved that that the future of that position would be
dependent upon continued receipt of that funding.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Anything under public health?
You okay?
Community development.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Community development on A-31 and
A-32. There's one expanded service request on A-32, which would
be an expansion of the economic development program. MR. MIHALIC: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Hi there. Can you explain the
communications manager and stuff?
MR. MIHALIC: Yes, this is an expanded position to expand
our economic development activity.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Of course, for the record you
would be?
MR. MIHALIC: I'm Greg Mihalic, housing and urban
improvement department.
And this is really the fourth year of our program, and this is
really the first expansion with our partnership with the economic
development council. They would like to add a staff position for a
new program that would essentially try to outreach and assist in
re-locating businesses to the community that are the suppliers
and assets to the businesses we have now. Sort of a grow from
within and use our supplier networks to enhance high wage job
creation. Mrs. Paraeigas (phonetic) is here, if you would like a
further explanation of this program.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Let me -- I know your offices are
right beside each other. They will be located in your office. MR. MIHALIC: No.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: They will be located in Miss --
MR. MIHALIC: They would be employees of the economic
development council. And, other than paying for them through our
contract, we would have no other oversight relationship.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just have one comment on this
Page 35
June 16, 2000
one is, sort like in elementary school when you make straight A's
and your mom comes to expect them all the time, you know, the
return on the buck that we have gotten out of EDC has been so
high that, you know, go forth and spend 150 grand, but come
back, Susan, with the same kind of return on investment that you
had on the first money that we've given you.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: What will -- the same question
that I've had for eight years, what will the communications
manager do eight hours a day?
MR. MIHALIC: I'd like Mrs. Paraeigas to come up and address
that.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Good morning.
MS. PARAEIGAS: Good morning. Susan Paraeigas, president
of the economic development council, for the record.
On a daily basis, Commissioner Constantine, we have the
communications manager at a full-time position that will design,
coordinate and disseminate local and out-of-market recruitment
and expansion information and collateral materials. In essence,
they will help our other staff that we have respond to inquiries,
trying to move jobs to the local area or for expanding businesses.
In addition, I think it's really important for this position, with
the performance measurements that Commissioner Mac'Kie
mentioned, that they will make sure that we have that at any time
for your review. So they will be heavily involved in that.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: There are very impressive
statistics. But help me walkthrough the communication
manager's day. I have, withbroad summaries or broad
generalities, I still have trouble grasping it sometimes.
MS. PARAEIGAS: They come in the door, they open the door.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Yeah. It's Tuesday, you know --
MS. PARAEIGAS: It's Tuesday.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: October 17th and they walk in at
8:00 a.m. and they go sit at their desk and what do they do? Help
me.
MS. PARAEIGAS: The first thing that they are going to do is
look at their prospect files that they are working with on the
business retention expansion, as well as business recruitment,
find out which prospects we are supposed to send proposals to.
And that is an extensive job. What we've been able to do so far is
that, with the staff that we've had, use the staff what we have to
Page 36
June 16,2000
do their own proposals. In essence, what we're trying to do is
compete with the Palm Beach and the Orlando's and the
Jacksonville's that have 15-member staffs and make sure that our
proposals are professional. So, on a day-to-day basis, they will
come in, the first job that they do will look at proposals and make
sure that we are responding on time and that we're giving ample
information.
In addition, I see that they will be heavily involved in press
releases, as well as a speaker to go around to the local
community and make sure that our existing businesses
understand or communicate with our existing businesses what
the programs are that are available.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: I understand. These dollars are
not out of ad valorem taxes, these come out of what is raised
through licensing fees; is that correct?
MR. MIHALIC: No, that's not true. These come directly out of
ad valorem taxes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, they come from
occupational licenses, which are supported in programs that are
otherwise ad valorem.
MR. MIHALIC: Occupational license may flow into a general
fund account, but these are paid out of the general fund account.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right. But, as a percentage of-- I
mean, there's two ways of looking at it. The net bottom line is
yes, it costs us from a property tax perspective. Another way of
looking at it is, occupational license payors have not been getting
anything business specific for their license fee, and this is a sort
of pay for what you get opportunity for that license fee.
MR. MIHALIC: When we look at surrounding counties, the job
creation we get per dollar is substantially higher than theirs.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Incredible.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: The other way to look at this is,
it's money well spent.
MS. PARAEIGAS: Thank you, sir.
MR. MIHALIC: Right. Better put.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you. Keep up the straight
A's.
MS. PARAEIGAS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: A plus, right?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
Anything else for Mr. Mihalic?
Page 37
June 16,2000
Thank you.
MR. MIHALIC: Thank you.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Transportation is summarized on Page
A-34. Expanded services is outlined on A-35. Based on the new
reorganization, this would include the new water management
component, which Mr. Olliff in his opening remarks indicated we
are supplementing in the upcoming year, as well as our road and
bridge component in transportation for roadway maintenance.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's too bad we're as dry as we are
right now. Because if we were in a rainier part of the year,
nobody would even blink.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: They would be crying for this, and
more.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And maybe by September we'll
be lucky enou9h that they will be crying.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:Yes. I've got no comments.
These are good numbers to me.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Just a question. At what point is
the break even for doing it out of house versus taking and doing
the desi9ns in house? Is there a formula that you apply to this
process?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: What's the outhouse formula,
Barb?
MR. McNEES: Mike McNees from your transportation
division.
I think generally, for larger scale projects, we consider
continuing to do more contracted design. But the intent is to be
able to, on some of the other smaller projects, be able to do those
with some of the staff that's being added in stormwater. John
may have something to add to that.
MR. BOLDT: Well, that's well put. With larger projects, we
want to use the local consultants. The smaller ones, we want to
have our hands on. We think we can do that much more
efficiently.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That was John Boldt.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: For the record.
MR. BOLDT: Stormwater management.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Fine. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Anything else? Thank you.
Page 38
June 16,2000
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
out of those Poinciana Village canals? Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Let the record
up.
John, you going to get that grass
reflect, thumbs
Next item.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Airport Authority is on Page A-46.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I love the color coordination.
It's
so easy to find it, now that I understand what's going on, in the
detail book.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: I thought you were referring to
John's tie.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I was.
MR. BOLDT: Thank you for that.
MR. DRURY: John Drury, executive director, Collier County
Airport Authority. I'm here to answer any questions.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Questions for Mr. Drury?
Thanks for coming by. Have a good day. He looks
disappointed.
MR. OLLIFF: They are armed for bear this morning.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Yeah. He comes and he briefs
about his budget before they ever get here. He let's you answer
your questions up front. He's terrific. Runs it like a business.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: John, are you going to have Stage II
jet bands for the air?.
MR. DRURY: Send them to our airport.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Send them on over.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Let the record reflect that all Stage
II lets should go to the Collier County Airport.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Are being encouraged.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: And encouraged to do so.
MR. DRURY: As long as they buy fuel.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: They fuel up. That's right.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Comes in dry, we'll take care of
yOU,
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Next item.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Constitutional officers begin on Page A-50.
Now, the property appraiser simply has his budget increases due
to the additional costs associated with the development of a GIS
system.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Any questions on property
Page 39
June 16,2000
appraiser?.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: None.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Any questions on the supervisor
elections?
COMMISSIONER CARTER: None.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Any question on clerk of courts?
COMMISSIONER CARTER: None.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Let's welcome the sheriff.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: The sheriff is summarized on A-55 and
A-56, and I see --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Don't you wish you were the
property appraiser, Don, so it would be just that easy?.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: The sheriff's budget is, to summarize, is
current service reflects the impact of the pay plan adjustments
and his expanded services, as outlined in the budget policy
discussion in April, reflect simply grant funded positions or
positions that were previously funded by grants. The grants are
ending and they are being absorbed in the general operating fund
of the sheriff's agency.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Do we have a listing of those 34?
I assume you're telling us every single one of those is necessary
to continue the well-being in the community.
MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. Harvey Lewis, for the record.
28 of them are road deputy positions, six of them are gang
and serious habitual offender positions.
MR. OLLIFF: Just so you know, too, I have pulled all the -- we
had all of the executive summaries pulled for every one of those
grants because I wanted to know clearly if we had indicated to
you as a board that these positions were going to be an obligation
at the conclusion of the grant. And in every single case the
answer is yes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Seems pretty straightforward to
me. We've already authorized the personnel increases. We
understood in every case that we were going to have to pay for
these grant positions as the grant ran out. I don't have any
problems.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: I really don't either, because I
think -- I don't know, what percentage is it, Mike, if we look at
personnel services? That's the adjustments, the grant
replacement of his total increase. It's a pretty high number.
Page 40
June 16,2000
There's very little increase in operating costs, as I remember.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: That is correct. There's approximately a
million-six in expanded services, again associated with those
grants. And this is duplicative of the information that was
included in budget policy and the cost match is what they had
indicated those costs to be borne in the sheriff's general
operating fund would be. So it was right on.So we certainly
appreciate that, the consistency of the number.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Sheriff budget-related item, I
don't really have any problem with the numbers here. This is one
of the best budgets we've seen in eight years, and as far as layout
and communication and so on. I appreciate that.
The question I just had was, we hear all kinds of numbers
bandied about out there publicly on vacancies. Of course, we did
the budget -- the pay plan adjustment and we're doing stepped in
one. How are we coming on that, just as far as, are you having
better luck recruiting?
SHERIFF HUNTER: Yes. We have some early -- Don Hunter,
Sheriff of Collier County, for the record.
We had some early indications that the wage adjustment
approved by the board and early implemented in June has already
had a dramatic impact. We had been running about a hundred
application requests per month historically. And now we, in the
first week after announcing the wage adjustment and the new pay
plan, base wage, we had 130 application requested in one week.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Wow. That's great.
SHERIFF HUNTER: So that's about, what, five times as many.
And it has begun to average out around 75 to 80 per week being
requested. We understand, or I understand, that whereas, for
instance, we had had -- last time I checked, I believe it was
February, we had something like three to five conditional offers
outstanding, meaning we had offered positions to about five
people. We currently have outstanding conditional offers of about
85. So a very dramatic turnaround for us by way of board action.
And we very much appreciate what the board did.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Sheriff Hunter, I would also like
you to share with the community some of the application from
which you learned from Y2K, and how you had taken what you had
to do there and now applied it into other operations to get a
continued benefit to the community.
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June 16,2000
SHERIFF HUNTER: We -- thank you, Commissioner Carter. I
would like to expand upon what has happened with us with Y2K.
I've given you a document also, if I may, and I'm going to
refer to it. It's the Florida Sheriff's Star, Page 14. And it's a
comprehensive program that we designed to attack the crime
situation in Collier County.
As you all know, we have had a very good year last year.
Calendar year 1999 was a record year for us in a sense that we
now have a crime rate that we haven't seen since 1972. We have
the opportunity to set an all-time low crime rate for this county.
We're going to do it in a number of different ways. One of them is
by application of the concept that you see in this magazine on
Page 14, which is Comstat. Using the Comstat analysis process,
we use the Y2K plan, which we developed to address the New
Year's Eve -- the predicted New Year's Eve problems. We're going
to use that plan to operationalize the analytical capabilities of the
agency to drive the crime rate down.
What had happened, of course, was Y2K, there was a great
deal of prediction that we were going to have mass --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Mayhem.
SHERIFF HUNTER: -- disarray and mayhem, chaos. We had
put together a plan to call in all agency elements, put them on a
alternating shift pattern of 12 hours each, staffing up for the
nighttime hours and for duration of the entire weekend. As a
result of our efforts, and yours, we had very high visibility on the
street and we had one of the quietest, if not the quietest, I believe
the quietest, New Year's Eve ever in Collier County, or at least in
the last three or four decades. We were very impressed by the
fact that that happened the way it did.
And what we're doing now that -- having had this experience,
is, once a month, and more frequently if we can afford to do so, at
no cost to the taxpayer, by balancing hours and working our
schedules in a intelligent fashion, we multiply our force on the
street for various enforcement applications. The early
applications have been, the school board had all their proms on
the same weekend, for instance, and we knew that historically
those weekends have been marked by increased alcohol
consumption and irresponsible driving. We put, during that prom
weekend, something like a hundred additional deputy sheriffs on
the street, looking at the proms, the prom locations, any places
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June 16, 2000
where parties might be spontaneously occurring, and trying to
suppress any kind of irresponsible driving by the
higher visibility. We had a very safe weekend. We had very good
cooperation from the shop owners and proprietors who were
selling alcohol. We had very good cooperation from the sites
where the proms were being conducted, and we had a very safe
outcome.
We also have been targeting our gangs, adult career
criminals, and our serious habitual juvenile offenders with this
Comstat idea and by targeting them, knowing that they are very
high risk, high volume offenders. By targeting those high volume
offenders, we think that we are going to have a very significant
outcome in terms of further reductions in the crime rate. We have
already had that kind of an outcome in the substation where we
first implemented Comstat, out in Golden Gate, at a 20 percent
reduction in the crime rate, over an 11 percent reduction in the
raw number of crimes that were reported to the sheriff's office.
And that has, we believe, a very strong potential for making this
an even safer place.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Other questions for the sheriff?
Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: I just want to publicly thank Tom
Schneider, who was a former Big 6 partner, who, on my behalf,
has worked at Sheriff Hunter's office for the last year. And I think
the sheriff will agree that, not only did he help educate me in the
process, but I think we all learned something from Tom's
experiences in how to improve efficiencies and how to do this
even more effectively.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Several advantages, yes. I would like to
commend the efforts of Tom Schneider. He's a private citizen
who is taking time out and thoroughly reviewing the budget. And I
think it's a very important process because it makes you think
and it gives us different perspective, added perspective on what is
important. It's been a significant part of the process.
And we appreciate your participation as well, Commissioner
Carter. You have asked a lot of tough questions. We appreciate
that because that helps us to, again, put it into proper
perspective.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sheriff, I know it's in capital, but --
or I think it's in capital, but your 800 megahertz coverage
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June 16,2000
problem, is that being adequately addressed in this budget?
SHERIFF HUNTER: Well, it's hard to fix a label to it. It's a
moving target. We are addressing it with the aid of the board and
board staff, working with the contractor, working with the State
of Florida. It is being addressed. It's coming along. And part of
the capital improvement program would be some of the fix, we
believe.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And what I hope is the approach
here, sort of like the beach rocks, is, first we fix it, then we
decide, you know, if it's somebody else, if it's somebody else's
responsibility, if we should be suing somebody, but let's not wait
to figure out whose fault it was before we solve the problem,
because this is certainly more important than beach rocks, and
we did beach rocks that way.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Yeah. I understand there have
been some practical difficulties. To the best of your knowledge,
are they meeting their what they had said would be a 95, 95
obligation?
SHERIFF HUNTER: I believe the most recent report we have
indicates that there are some issues. If we can't address them
contractually now, but there still remain some issues. And the
monies that have been programmed, I believe, will go a long way
towards fixing that.
I will reassure the board, you have a very strong, aggressive
hand in Tom Olliff. And Tom is working with us to see that those
fixes are in place.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: And obviously the safety of the
officers is the number one thing. But just from a finance
standpoint, if they are -- have not met the obligation they met, I
assume we will follow Commissioner Mac'Kie's suggestion and
pursue whatever litigation may be appropriate.
MR. OLLIFF: We will. But I need to point out that, from every
indication that I have gotten so far, it was just an early model of
that system. And I think that, from our perspective, they probably
did live up contractually. But we'll continue to look at that. And
our biggest concern was getting it fixed. From the stories that we
heard about deputies in the field, we wanted to get that radio
system fixed.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Anything else on the capital
items, as long as the sheriff's here? Some of them are related to
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June 16,2000
him, some of are county staff.
MR. $MYKOWSKI: It begins on A-59, the capital 301.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Questions on any of those?
MR. OLLIFF: The sheriff's projects are outlined at the top of
Page A-60.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I have none.
Thanks.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Speaking of setting records, I
think we just set a record, the fastest review of the sheriff's
budget. I know it was in the last six years.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: The least painful probably.
MR. OLLIFF: I've got to tell you, that's the best relationship
that we've had in terms of a budget submitted by the sheriffs
department, and just a lot of credit goes to Don and Harvey and
Crystal and Jean, both. They all did just a great job for us this
year.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, I have to say some credit
has to go to Tom Olliff, too, because some of the questions are
the same.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: We didn't have an adversarial
relationship between the county manager and the sheriff this
year, which was refreshing.
MR. OLLIFF: Just to point out that, in the '01 budget on the
third line on your right-hand side, right-hand column on the blue
page is that radio number. So it's 1.5 number, and that's what
we've put in there to both address our and the sheriff's systems.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Good. You're done.
SHERIFF HUNTER: I'd like to thank the board for your early
work on our budget and for the support you've given the agency
relative to our wage situation. Very, very important step. And I
think that you've secured public safety. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Is this when
Kumbya?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Join in.
MR. OLLIFF: If there's any other questions,
presentation we have for you this morning.
we all sing
that's all the
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Mr. Olliff indicated at the
beginning -- and we will go to public speakers, if we have any --
but Mr. Olliff indicated at the beginning we have a wrap up
schedule for Monday. It sounds like we may not need to hold that.
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June t6,2000
We had a couple of questions today. You can provide that in
memo form to us.
MR. OLLIFF: I will. I'll give you my concluding remarks,
though, that today's workshop has resulted in our need to get you
some Medicaid info in regards to the EMS billings. We've reduced
the IT position and our participation in the coastal communities
program. And then, for the final public hearings in September, we
will come back to you with some IT support information, some
heart drug information, and a finalized BCC office budget.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Our only speaker today will be
Janet Vasey.
MR. OLLIFF: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Hi there.
MS. VASEY: Janet Vasey, for the record.
I have a few issues that I came up with after reviewing the
budget this year. And I was looking at things mostly from a policy
point of view.
It's always been the board's policy to charge those people
that are benefiting from a service, charge them and make them
pay for it. And so I was looking through the budget to see if there
are areas where that's not occurring or where maybe we could do
a better job of that. And so I came up with a few I wanted to
discuss.
Basically, Community Development, Fund 113, pays for
services that are related to new development and the permitting
and planning and inspecting. And those fees, of course, are paid
by permits and development reviews fees from developers and
passed onto owners. And these costs, of course, are not paid for
then by homeowners through ad valorem taxes. The community
development fund is also used to develop -- to reimburse other
funds for costs incurred in support of new development. And this
includes some of the comprehensive planning areas and in the
code enforcement area, where code enforcement people go
around and inspect new development.
By the same logic, I think that some areas of transportation
administration could also be reimbursed from the 113 account. I
know Ed Kant spends a lot of time reviewing the PUD -- the PUD
documents for transportation impacts. And I think there are
probably other offices too that provide that kind of support that
could and should be reimbursed from the 113 account.
Page 46
June 16,2000
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's a really, really important
point. And we looked at that hard a couple years ago, but it
sounds like it might be time to look at it again. Because, if there
is a nickel that can be paid out of community development fees
and reduce property taxes, we want to find every nickel.
MS. VASEY: Oh, I think there is some potential there. We
would have to take a hard look at the numbers of people and the
amount of time that they spend on it. But I think there's probably
a couple of hundred thousand dollars there that could be
reimbursed from 113 and then reduce the ad valorem by a like
amount.
Another area that perhaps would even have a bigger impact
is the transportation engineering. This function currently is paid
for from gas taxes. And it seems that, if you look at it in the
whole picture, the transportation engineering is, in a large part,
developing new roads, adding new roads, like Livingston,
widening lanes, like on Immokalee. Those kind of things you
could tie directly, I think, to growth, growth management, and
reimburse from 113 also. The impact fees are used for the
purchase of right of ways for the laying of construction, but they
cannot be used for anything relating to pay and personnel and
operating costs. But you could use the 113 account to pay for
that. And I think there be would be upwards of maybe a million
dollars that could be used in that regard.
And how that would transfer is, the million dollars then would
be a million dollars less that you would have to use in gasoline
fees, gasoline taxes. And then that money would be used to pay
for more in road maintenance fees, which would then free up a
million dollars of ad valorem tax dollars.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Could we ask the county
attorney's office to research that for us, because if that's legal,
I'm certainly interested.
Is anybody else interested?
COMMISSIONER CARTER: Yes. Those are interesting points.
I think we ought to take a look at. And if we can make it a better
process and use funds more effectively, good idea.
MS. VASEY: And I did look at the revenues that are available
in the 113 account, and even though there is some new
construction going on there, there is really sufficient money. And
I've done an analysis and provided some of that information to
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June 16,2000
Tom. But I think there is plenty of money there to take care of
that.
Also, one thing I would like to talk to you about is the motor
pool capital recovery fund. And if I could direct your attention for
just a minute to the detail book, Page F-24 and 25.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I remember this happened last
year, too, didn't it?
MS. VASEY: Well, it was a year -- I think it was two years
ago. But there are some things happening here that I just have to
bring to your attention.
What's happening here is that, we're taxing taxpayers now to
pay for costs that are needed four, five, six years down the road.
And, in this account, on Page F-25, you've got the reserves going
up to 4.2 million dollars. That's money that's in reserves. There's
a lot of-- it is not totally ad valorem tax dollars, but probably 35,
40 percent is collected and not being spent. And it's just getting
bigger. I guess when I was objecting to it a couple of years ago, it
was a much smaller amount, but now it's just growing.
And, let's see. Looking back, I think they are collecting too
much money and they are not accounting for the revenues that
are coming in. If you look under the revenue lines, there's
miscellaneous interest and surplus sales. But $250, 000 a year
coming in, and I suspect that that's not somehow getting in to
reducing the amount that's collected for the new vehicles. So I
would suggest that that could be looked at and perhaps -- I
question whether we have a need for this at all. It's tying up a lot
of money. It's -- the funds that actually pay for these vehicles
have sufficient reserves, have sufficient money to be able to pay
for these things on an as-needed basis without putting into a pool
for them and having a situation where between one million and
$1.6 million is collected each year -- that's including some of this
interest in surplus sales -- and between 550 and $870, 000 is paid
out. So every year we're collecting much more than we pay out in
that year. So I would recommend that that be looked at with a
view of perhaps even getting rid of the whole fund.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is that something Mike could do
today? I would love to know the answer to that.
MR. OL. LIFF: I wouldn't recommend that you do it today. I
will tell you that Mike and I were laughing at each other because
it was one of the things, as we went through the budget this year,
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June 16,2000
we've also had some questions about. I know that initially one of
the answers that I was given -- and I will tell you that we want to
take a little closer look at this reserve and how it works -- but you
have to keep in mind that equipment replacement does not come
on a -- if we're on a, for example, a six-year replacement cycle,
does not come on a one-sixth every single year basis. And I know
I looked at a couple of out years coming in, and you've got some
major ambulance replacements coming in a couple of years, and
ambulance replacements are in that $120, 000 per unit range. So
when you start looking at a half a dozen of those, there are some
spikes coming, and it's just not a consistent target.
I will tell you I think that we probably have a little excess
here. And one of those things that I think is part of next year's
budget process, I think she's right, we need to go back and we
need to work on this.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: My question, though, and I
apologize for all of the interruptions, but I just wanted to get on
the points. The other point that Miss Vasey made is that there is
reserves in each of those funds. For example, is there already
reserves in the EMS capital for those --
MR. OLLIFF: No.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
MR. OLLIFF: There are reserves at the fund level, but there
are certainly not reserves set
type replacement.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
fund level for?.
aside for equipment, ambulance
And what are the reserves at the
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Contingency.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
MS. VASEY: The point that I had there is that, to follow up on
your ambulances, that is pretty much paid for out of the general
fund. And the general fund has -- well, in the '01 year it has 17
million dollars. So it can pick up a couple of ambulances if it
needs to.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That was the same question that
you raised for us every year that I keep listening to, I really like it,
and that is, are we overtaxing to keep our bank account full, and
is it over full? Do we have too much money in reserves when you
total up all of the reserves in the multiple funds and then the
general reserve? And every year they talk us out of it, but I'm --
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June 16,2000
MR. OLLIFF: No. And I will tell you, as part of her
recommendations, your reserves and your carry forwards were
reduced by almost 3 and a half million dollars, and that's directly
as a result of Mrs. Vasey's recommendations from years prior.
And I won't tell you that we're done looking at those. But, you
know, in this budget year, that's what we felt comfortable
recommending to you.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: In the specific example that has
been provided, is there an opportunity to look at that between
now and September? I mean, I don't think anybody would argue if
you actually lowered that millage at the final hearing. So, rather
than say golly, we'll look at it in the next budget year, that's a
long way away.
That's an opportunity to actually do something
We've got a couple of months, we can certainly
now.
MR. OLLIFF:
take a look at it.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Last year there was a question that
was brought up, or a statement that was made, that though things
looked pretty good at this point in time, are we going to reach a
point where we're going to start going the other direction? I
remember, I don't know--
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: They showed us that, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Do you remember that discussion,
that we're biting into reserves? And I don't --
Janet, I don't know, you've looked at this. Do you see this as
a problem that we're going incur down the road here? I think so
far it's always been pointed out, I think, that, with growth and
everything, we're -- you know, every year it always looks really
good and but at what point do we reach where we don't look so
good?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: I'll respond to that, and be brief. I spoke
with representatives from Moody's Investors Service, who rate
municipal bonds, and to discuss with them the need or rules of
thumb related to carry forward as a percentage of total fund
appropriations, et cetera. In my memo to the board through Mr.
Olliff, it was noted that at a minimum a Florida coastal community
should carry approximately 10 percent. We're at like 11.1. So, in
terms of carry forward, we are not overly fat, so to speak. We're
right about where we need to be. We also -- as the general fund
grows over time, you have to meet cash flow obligations during
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June ~6,2000
that first six to seven weeks of the fiscal year, and the board's
policy has been for us not to have to borrow money issuing tax
anticipation notes to fund operations during the early part of the
fiscal year. It was also -- the analyst that I spoke with from
Moody's was also quick to point out that some of the issues
affecting Florida communities were, you know, obviously
hurricane and wild fire threats. Some of the other things he
mentioned were uncertainty regarding the future of Article V court
costs and the shifting of that. And those are things that they are
concerned about.
In addition, potential volatility, reliance on the tourism
industry, as well as reliance on sales tax revenue to fund general
operations were some other concerns that they have when they
are reviewing county financial positions. And this was right off
the cuff, and those were the few things he rattled off right off the
top of his head. And I think we need to be cognizant of that. And,
given the percentage, I think we're right about where we need to
be.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But on these particular ones, is it
something that we can look at for September, with regard to the
motor pool?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes, without question.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What else have you got, Janet?
MS. VASEY: In conclusion, I just wanted to tell you that I
think your staff has done an excellent job, especially in the areas
that I like to poke around in, with the reserves and the carry
forward. I couldn't find a single thing there in the general fund
that I could take issue with.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yea.
MS. VASEY: So I'm really pleased. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Somebody send a tape of this to
the governor, would you?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Anything you want to wrap up
with or are you okay?
MR. OLLIFF: No, sir. I think we are good until September.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Mr. Olliff, thank you very much.
You've get a great staff that always does such a wonderful job
putting this thing together. But I'll tell you, I don't think it's any
coincidence that the process this year has gone the smoothest of
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June 16,2000
the eight years that I've done budgets.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Amen.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: The format is good.
Communication, both before the hearings in advance so we could
answer some questions and here have been fabulous. So
everybody who has worked on this, great work. Thank you very
much.
MR. OLLIFF: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: I'll say ditto to that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Ditto.
SHERIFF HUNTER: And may I make one more comment?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: You too.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Thank you. Don Hunter, Sheriff Collier
County.
I was remiss. I would like to also thank Janet Vasey for the
work that she has done with the Collier County Sheriff's Office
budget. She has been very thorough in her analysis. She worked
very closely with budget staff. And we very much appreciate the
work that she has done to stimulate the public perception of the
agency to try to give us an idea of -- some other ideas of how to
look at the budget. And it shouldn't go without having been said
that she's done a very good job with that. Thank you for the extra
moment.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Thanks.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Have a good weekend.
COMMISSIONER CARTER: So we don't need to meet Monday.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: No, we don't.
We're adjourned.
Page 52
June 16, 2000
There being no further business for the good of the County,
the meeting was adjourned at 11:55 a.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
TIM HAIRMAN
-.~. .!:.% ~
~* ATTEST: ~
· 'DWIGHT:E. BROCK, CLERK
~ ~'i"
These minutes~approved by the Board on
as presented ~.~ or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICE BY: ELIZABETH M. BROOKS, RPR
Page 53