BCC Minutes 05/05/1994 J (w/Lee BCC) RECEIVED
JUN 1 199z~
Board of County Co~issicners
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COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
LEE COUNTY. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
JQINT MEETING
MAY 5, 1994
Lions Center
10370 Pennsylvania Avenue
Bonita Springs, Florida
ORIGINAL
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
CARROTHERS REPORTING SERVICE, INC.
Building L, Fifth Floor
Collier County Courthouse
Naples, Florida 33962
~LEPHONE: (813) 732-2700 FAX: (813) 774-6022
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MEMBERS PRESENT
COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF CQUNTY CQMMI$$IQNERS:
Chairman Timothy J. Constantine
Commissioner Burr L. Saunders
Commissioner Bettye J. Matthews
Commissioner John C. Norris
Commissioner Michael J. Volpe
W. Nell Dorrill, County Manager
Bill Hargett, Assistant County Manager
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LEE COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS:
Chairman Ray Judah
Commissioner John E. Albion
Commissioner Frank B. Mann
Commissioner Douglas R. St. Cerny
Donald D. Stllwell, County Administrator
William H. Hammond, Deputy County Administrator
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(The meeting was called to order at 9:30 a.m.)
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: I think everyone can hear me.
First of all, I'm not necessarily going to preside over
this meeting. This is actually a neutral site. I
believe courtesy would dictate that actually Chairman
Tim Constantine would preside over this meeting. I
know ! did so at the last meeting. I know it's rather
informal and actually, the Bonita Springs Chamber of
Commerce will no doubt kind of spearhead the meeting as
we go along.
But with that, I want %o at least turn it over to
Chairman Constantine and Just welcome the Collier
County Commission.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Thank you, Chairman Judah.
We are happy to be here. I've had a chance to talk
briefly with a couple of the folks from the Bonita
Chamber. I want to thank them for helping keeping us
moving in the direction of working together, and I'm
glad we have a little better turnout than last time.
We were short-handed last time around, so it's nice to
get pretty much a full house.
Why don't we go ahead? I think Dennis Gllkey with
the Chamber wants to start out with a few words.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Prior to Dennis having an
opportunity -- only because we have Reverend Yaeger in
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the crowd today. I know he'd like to give us the
invocation. Then we go ahead with pledge of allegiace
and then yes, we'll certainly hear from Mr. Gilkey.
(The Invocation was given by Reverend Yaeger and
the Pledge of Allegiance was recited.)
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Chairman Constantine, also Just
to let you know and the rest of the Collier County
Commissioners, I know that Commissioner Manning would
be here, other than the fact he is not feeling well and
he certainly sends his regrets.
MR. GILKEY: Morning a~ain. Welcome to Bonita
Springs. We are very glad that you are here and you
fulfilled your commitment that you made about six
months ago to meet on this exact date at your Joint
meeting. At the meeting last October, we had three
County Commissioners from each county. It was very
productive, very informative. We've seen some very
positive follow-up since that time and we appreciate
the efforts of both County Commissions and their staffs
in that regard.
Several things have happened in the last six
months, that we would look at as things that would
effect both counties on a regional basis. I'd like to
Just point those out to you, give you a six month recap
of things that we see, not Just from the Bonita Springs
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perspective, but from a bi-county perspective that are
important.
First, the local economy has continued, of course,
to move forward very strongly. We, in the last six to
twelve months, have seen a very strong, stronger than
ever indication we are moving with a regional economy.
We see it here in most of our businesses. In fact, I
would say every single business of our 660 or so
members of our Chamber, would say that they serve the
Lee and Collier market. Not a single one I think would
say the they only serve one county or the other.
The other thing we've seen in the last six months
is a very strong and probably recordbreaking tourist
season due to the recovery of our feeder markets from
the midwest, and to some degree, maybe the northeast
and the inclement weather we've had up north. We've
seen the first transatlantic flight from Germany at the
Southwest .Regional International Airport. That's a
significant event. Unfortunately, we've also seen a
very significant drop in the European tourist market
because of the perceived crime problems that we've been
tagged with in south Florida.
The legislature has approved the funds --
significant funds -- to keep moving forward with the
10th University. That continues to move with staffing,
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planning, design for the initial facilities at the
university.
The state legislature also approved partial
funding for Lovers Key State Park, which we'll talk a
little later about, which I think both counties need to
recognize the potential of that as being a real
regional resource. Not strictly Bonita Springs, or Lee
County, but a real regional resource that has a
potential of being a very positive thing for our
residents and tourists.
There has been very good dialogue in the last six
months between the county staffs as it relates to
Bonita Beach Road and the widening. As far as we can
see, it's still moving in a positive direction. We'll
be able to break ground later this year. But I think
the good thing is we've seen some good dialogue and
trying to work out some of the problems which occurred
with utilities and right-of-way.
The Joint cooperation between the Lee and Collier
Chambers and the various Lee and Collier Chambers has
been probably better in the last six months than it's
ever been in the history of the Lee and Collier area.
We've had several regular meetings with the Southwest
Chamber and the Naples Chamber and Bonita combined, and
the individual other chambers of each county, as well.
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So I think the economic industry of the two-county area
recognizes that we need to work together to solve
common problems and still keep our individuality,
because I think that's important for everyone also.
I hope you do have a productive meeting today.
This is really not the Bonita Springs Chamber's
meeting; it's yours, and we wanted to help guide it, as
Commissioner Constantine said. But this is your
meeting and I would hope that you have your own items
you would want to interject into the agenda, things
that we can benefit from each other by that discussion.
Thank you again for giving us the opportunity to
be part of this meeting and helping to help you to move
it along. So we'll be talking back with you as we go
on, but thank you again. Have a good meeting.
Before we start, the aerial in the back is about
four years old of Bonita Springs, and the north road is
Corkscrew. The very south east-west road is Immokalee
Road that's shown there. Immokalee Road in Collier
County. Skip **, our President-elect, can show you
where we're at. The little red dot -- probably can't
see it from too far back -- that's where we're sitting
today. The little red line is the Lee-Collier border.
Then Skip will show you how we looked at that area of
Bonita Springs and how the county line looks to us.
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Looks pretty much like that. So there will be a quiz
later on in the day to see if you can put that red line
back on the map. Thank you again.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Dennis, we may or may not
be able to see that red dot. I'm proud to say six
months ago I couldn't, but I can now.
First item on the Joint items is the update on the
West Bonita Beach Road, and I think we have members
from both of our staffs would like to give a brief
report on that.
MR. CRAWFORD: Morning, Commissioner. For the
record, my name is George Crawford, Department of
Transportation Director for Lee County, otherwise known
as Mr. Grumpy. That has to go on the record so they
understand who I am back at the Minutes Department.
I can give you a short update on where we are with
the Bonita Beach Road project. I have a schedule here.
The design is completed. The permits for South Florida
Water Management, DEP, and Army Corps of Engineers is
in hand. We expect the DNR permit and land lease yet
this month.
We have a design for Collier County Utility and
Bonita Springs Water System, which will be completed in
6/94. I think the commission as I remember Just passed
yesterday the funds that were given to us by Collier
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County to increase the fee for our consultant so that
he could do the utility design.
We are hoping to have all of the, what I call
friendly condemnation or voluntary condemnation by June
of this year, and we will start right-of-way through
condemnation in 9/94.
We're going to advertise for bids in July. We
intend to award the construction contract in October
and we intend to start construction in October, with
the completion date of 1/96 to 4/96, depending on how
construction goes.
We're still looking at a total construction cost
of 10 and a half million, and that does include the
mitigation that is required by the permitting agencies.
Obviously, the construction time will depend on what we
run into -- traffic, and so forth -- in the season.
Unfortunately, as you can see, we are going to be going
through the season for '95 and at least part of the
season for '96. So there is going to be inconvenience.
I'm sure the telephones will ring, but with progress
does come some inconvenience. We will ask the
contractor to minimize that. We're going make sure
that he does not do anything to impede business any
more than he will have to do.
We are taking a different stance on this. We're
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not allowing contractors to Just tear up driveways and
leave them and don't care about whether businesses have
access, all of those things. Whoever the successful
contractor will be, will be told he's going to have to
maintain, and our people will see that he does maintain
that. So businesses, while they are going to be
inconvenienced, we hope we can minimize that.
Any questions?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Crawford, I have a
question. What is the western terminus?
MR. CRAWFORD: The western terminus is right
around the curve as you go into Hickory Boulevard. I
can't think of the street that it goes north of, it
tapers back. It's right beyond Bonita Beach Park, Lee
County Bonita Beach Park.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I've heard mention made of
the conflict in the utilities. Is the Lee County
Commission working to hire -- and is that what you
said -- the same consultant that's going to coordinate?
MR. CRAWFORD: Yes. We are giving them a
supplemental task agreement, which we can do under our
contract, so we do not have to renegotiate everything.
And that's what the money was appropriated for
yesterday and the authority to go with the supplemental
task authorization that was passed by the commission
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yesterday. So it's in progress. We have to get it
done. You provided the money -- that Is, you, Collier
County -- and we will be proceeding rapidly on that.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: One of the things that you've
said is that during the construction phase that you
will work with the merchants along Bonita Beach Road.
One of the things we've done in Collier County is we've
tried to do as much evening construction as possible.
Is that one of the things that you've at least talked
about? Because there will be not only the merchants
but also our seasonal vislturs who will be Impacted by
that construction.
MR. CRAWFORD: Presently it is not anticipated
doing that, but it may very well be -- and I didn't see
George Archibald. I tried to see him in the crowd, but
I didn't seem him -- we are going to discuss with
George the possibility of taking it over a bid for
evening, because it's going to be more expensive to do
that. And but it may certainly hurry up the process.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: One last question: What are
the traffic counts, if you know, on that segment of
Bonita Beach Road currently?
MR. CRAWFORD: As I remember off the top of my
head, about 18, 20,000 in the season, but I may be
wrong. Does that sound right? Staff says it's right.
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So we are talking about 18 to 20,000 in season. So
that means this time of the year, I don't know what the
ratio is, but it's probably much lower.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I know a number of the
residents in Bonita Shores are concerned as to the
possibility for cut-through traffic during
construction. Are there any proactive measures being
taken to try to minimize that?
MR. CRAWFORD: We will be continuing to look at
that. That's kind of an ongoing process. We do
something, the traffic does something else to
counteract that, then we do something and they do
something else. So we're going to have to have an
ongoing process. Yes. We will watch that, because we
don't want to have traffic have to be cutting through
neighborhoods at all. But they will do it and we will
have to watch that as we go. We'll have our staff
looking at it and consulting with George Archibald
where necessary.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Crawford, we are in the
process of designing -- correct me if I'm wrong -- the
four-laning of Vanderbilt Drive from Wiggins Pass Road
to the north. Has there been an attempt to coordinate
the four-lanlng program of Vanderbilt Drive with the
Bonita Beach in that area to make sure, in terms of
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those intersections?
MR. CRAWFORD: Not to my knowledge. But I'll
certainly check and make sure that there is some
coordination.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE= Mr. Dorrlll -- I don't see
Mr. Archibald, either -- do you recall whether we are,
in fact, in the PD&E on Vanderbilt Drive?
MR. DORRILL: We are involved in that currently.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: It Just seems to me that is
going to be a major intersection, that somehow that
needs to be coordinated.
MR. CRAWFORD: We will certainly make a note of
that and make sure that it does get coordinated.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
is West Avenue?
MR. CRAWFORD:
The other intersecting road
Again, staff may be coordinating
that ·
it happens. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
the six laning as the two counties adjoin.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH:
George.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
I'm not aware of it, but we will make sure that
The next item is U.S. 41,
You may want to stay up there,
George Archibald took one
look at the agenda and decided to stay home.
MR. CRAWFORD: Us Georges are together on this one
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right now. If I had taken a real close look at the
agenda, I might have stayed home, too.
I think that Norm Feder is here from FDOT to
further discuss this issue. I believe, probably to
give you somewhat of an update, as you know, the FDOT
people are trying to coordinate and get a PD&E study
through the entire 41 corridor from actually Collier
County line, will actually go south to Collier County
line to, I believe Old U.S. 41, all the way up to,
believe it may be Alico Road. And we've been in
discussions -- we have been ~nd FDOT have been -- in
discussions. And Secretary May, District Secretary
May, has been personally working with this and
personally wants to get it off the ground so that we
can get some idea of where we're going.
We are willing to do, and recommend to our
commission, whatever is necessary to get that PD&E
under way. For one thing, we think, as I understand,
we think if we can get that, we would probably go to an
urban or suburban type cross-section, which will be
less expensive, less right-of-way intensive in some
ways. And we need to get that under way so that we get
the feds locked in to that particular cross-section and
get them to approve it so we know where we are going.
Even though we may not get the funding for the structur
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immediately, at least we have them locked into the
cross-section we are going with.
Some of the developers have been approaching us
about what they could do in terms of advancing impact
fee credits or advancing impact fees for credits to go
toward that. We are certainly open to that. We feel
it's absolutely imperative that this road be defined
and that we can proceed forward with the segments of
the road as we go, but we know what the cross-section
is.
I think probably Norm Feder, who is the local
representative of the FDOT here at the urban office,
can probably give you some more details on that, and
I'm sure either he or I can answer specific questions
later on.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Morning, Norm.
MR. FEDER: Good morning, George. Thank you. I'm
Norman Feder with Florida Department of Transportation.
I'm District Director. What I'd like to do is give you
a quick overview. I Just saw the agenda when I came
in, so I didn't know to stay home.
Basically, what we have going on right now in Lee
County relative to the Bonita Springs area, is we've
got a construction program basically from Alico up to
Island Park, Island Park up to Daniels. That is
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programmed in 96-97, our five-year work program. We
also have programmed through the right-of-way phase
from San Carlos up to Alico and that project is in
right-of-way, as I said through the five years. And
we're looking at the possibility of construction based
on local priorities come forward on that.
Down in Collier County, from Myrtle up to
Immokalee, Immokalee up to County Road 887, we have had
some considerable discussions. The project costs went
up considerably. We've worked with the community; we
are evaluating right. Now we'll be going to hearing on
some alternate concepts that might allow both of those
projects to be brought into the five-year program.
Right now, it's programmed with only the portion from
Myrtle to Immokalee under construction. The other
portion will be right-of-way. It's our hope we can get
both of them within the five years. From County Road
887, though, all the way up to the Collier County line
and then from the Collier County line up to San Carlos
Boulevard.
Last cycle development of our work program we
added in the project development environment study, the
first phase of our process that establishes the
alignment, the basic cross-section, and then receives
the federal approval to go forward with future federal
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funding. What we've been trying to raise, especially
out of our discussions down in Collier County and the
good working relationship that we've had with the
development community, the county and others, is what
opportunities we have to do public-private partnerships
to bring issues forward.
We recognize the growth of this area, not only the
number of DRIs, the major developments, the university,
the growth of the airport, the pulling together of the
two communities. It's very, very important that we get
some of these issues determined out front what is going
to be the future improvement, how it's going to be
configured, how does that relate to the development
that is already here, and many that is coming quickly
on its heels. Through that process, we'll also be able
to determine what we are going to do as far as access
management issues so that everybody knows what the
nature of the process is going to be, development can
then work with some level of surety as to what the road
improvement will be, what the nature of the access
options are, and we have something we can all work
together from.
To that end, what we've thrown out is what we see
as an opportunity -- there is always opportunities --
and that is, that if there is a way that either through
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Collier, Lee County -- we have to work with the
county -- we've got these items programmed in our new
fifth year '98-'99. That's the PD&E study.
If there's a way, as George has already mentioned,
to try and advance that, we can go into agreement after
July i to be able to reimburse for the cost. The
carrying costs we don't cover. I think you're all
familiar with our costs in advance for reimbursement in
both of these counties. But if we are able to do that,
get these issues out front, we do have 200 feet of
right-of-way. We'd have to see where the PD&E study
went, what the issues are.
But there's a prospect of being able to work
basically within that 200 feet, especially if, as we
experienced in Collier County in our recent
discussions, the development community can help address
some of the retention needs, there's a possibility of
even moving forward without a right of way phase which
brings forward the possibility of construction much
faster.
I understand right now, the only thing we have
programmed is the project development environment
study. But by bringing that forward, we are in a
position to try to address the great growth in the
area. We see that as an opportunity. We are Just
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try£ng to bring it out to you at the county.
Obviously, there's monies that come with that
opportunity. But there is the ability to pay back, as
I said, '98-'99, and we would be obviously very
desirous if that was an option to bring this project
forward. I think it's very important for both counties
for the growth of the area and for the department.
There's an important facility in the demands here now.
I'd be happy to respond to any questions that you
might have.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: M~. Feder, the segment that
you're talking about from 887, is that Wiggins Pass
Road?
MR. FEDER: Yes. From 887 in Collier County up to
the Collier County line, then all the way up to San
Carlos.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I didn't understand currently
the time frames within which your department is working
and what segments, because that's the Bonita area.
That's what we're talking about?
MR. FEDER: Yes. Exactly. Talking about 887 to
the Lee County line in Collier County, and then in Lee
County, the continuation of that from the Collier
County line, if you will, up to San Carlos Boulevard.
We have that red line, so I had to put it in two
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sections. But we see that as one study. It is funded
in '98-'99 based on our actions last work program
cycle. Because of the emphasis placed by Collier
County, Lee County placed it a little bit lower, but I
think the Issues are coming up greater now, so we are
able to place that Into our new fifth year 98-99, for
the PD&E. What I'm bringing up is there any way that
can be accelerated with an advancement in
reimbursement. We need to be moving on that issue well
But it's only entered in our program for
before.
'98-'99.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
Well, help me then. From
Myrtle to 887, that is in your current --
MR. FEDER: That is in the five-year work program.
Construction on one segment, not on the other. But as
you know, we're working to try to bring both of those
back in.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: To the five-year program?
Would it be San Carlos to the north, then to Alico and
then to Daniels? Is that in your five year program?
MR. FEDER: The San Carlos to Allco, not the
construction. The right-of-way Is ready for
construction. In our new fifth year, possibly, if
that's the priority, the portion from Allco to Island
Park, Island Park to south of Daniels, yes, the
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construction is in the 96-97.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. Then back it up Just
for a second. If you're saying it's not yet but could
be in your new five-year program, I'm talking 887 up to
San Carlos --
MR. FEDER: No. 887 to San Carlos is only PD&E
'98-'99. I do not have the design right-of-way or
construction phases, assuming I need a right of way
phase.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So realistically, the
construction phase of that [ggment could be when?
MR. FEDER: Okay. If we stay with our current
programming, '98-'99 is the PD&E. Typically, you have
two years for each phase.
phase, another two years.
If I have to do a design
If a right of way phase
required, two years, and then finally programming
construction about seven years from then, say about
2005-2006.
What we are proposing, though, is the ability to
advance for reimbursement, that PD&E can be brought
into this coming fiscal year, '94-'95, and we are able
to proceed forward, there's a possibility, based on
priorities, with bringing it forward within the next
five years, especially if right of way turns out not to
be required.
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COMMISSIONER VOLPE: There are some of us sitting
here remember when U.S. 41 was a two-lane facility.
That was probably in 1982. Now we're talking about six
lanes maybe in 2005. Is there any contemplation to go
beyond six lanes?
MR. FEDER: No, there is not.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. Only other question I
had, did I read something recently about the
realignment of Old U.S. 417
MR. FEDER: That will be something the county
staff may have to respond to. Realignment of Old 417
Not to my knowledge.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is it being discussed?
MR. CRAWFORD: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Norm, what's the cost you are
looking at from the county to fast track for the PD&E
five-year work program?
MR. FEDER: We have programmed, we have some
in-house dollars. It's about 2.4, 2.5 million is what
we think we are looking at for the PD&E for both the
segments, the short segment in Collier and the portion
up to San Carlos Boulevard.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Anything else on that item?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's not very encouraging,
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frankly, to think about that segment of U.S. 41 not
being in the construction phase until sometime around
2006, 2007. I mean that's --
MR. FEDER: We have the same concern. That's why
we've tried to raise what we think is an opportunity
that might help bring it forward faster.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: There aren't any
opportunities within your budget to advance it? Are
there other priorities within this district?
MR. FEDER: That is correct. Please understand
when we draw up our work pro~ram, as I hope each of you
are very comfortable with, we work directly with your
priorities, Collier and Lee respectively. This last
cycle was the first time there was an emphasis was
placed on that PD&E study -- actually a very high
emphasis placed in Collier County planning process,
actually a little bit lower placed in Lee County.
That's why we entered it into our new fifth year, as we
know we have four years. When I get a priority, I'm
programming a new fifth year.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: At least in your same
district?
MR. FEDER:
Yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What's the total amount that
your department is allocating for this area in the next
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five-year period?
MR. FEDER=
general numbers.
Total dollars?
have approximately -- this is
have to get you specifics -- but I
have in the vicinity on highway and bridge only -- not
counting public transportation -- about 125 million
over the five years of our work program in Lee County.
About 85 million or so in Collier County. That's based
on looking at 50 percent gas tax population, or what
they call the statutory formula. We try to keep a fair
share in each of the counties over time. We have 12
counties in our district.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Since about a third of the
project is actually on the county line, which county
supplies the funds for that7
MR. FEDER= Well, Florida DOT supplies the funds,
generally. In answer to your question, we would look
for any assistance we could get to bring this forward.
Again, what I'm offering though, is to pay back the
program. Tgere would be carrying costs, obviously,
between the time you do it until the time you get paid
back. But generally, we've got a program, we are Just
seeing if there is any way of working with us it can be
accelerated.
In answer to the Commissioner's previous question,
we are working with you over priorities. There is
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other issues that have come before this. This is not
to say that there aren't projects under way and going.
But this area is growing so fast we hoped there might
be some opportunity to work together and we could
accelerate it some.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Anything else on that?
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: To Norm Feder's credit, he has
been and the department's been very receptive, at least
to Lee County, willing to advance funds to try to
expedite projects. It's quite a process to go through.
State Road 78 was an example actually, where we
already had approved to advance money but it turns out
we didn't need to and FDOT was able to expedite a
section of that road improvement, recognizing this is
an important link in the overall U.S. 41 corridor.
I see here with what Norm has indicated 2.4, 2.5
million advance to PD&E, we have to balance that with
reality. And our staff can correct me if I'm wrong,
but we're threatened with about a 5.2 million shortfall
with our capital improvement program today.
MR. CRAWFORD: It's 7 million.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Stand to be corrected.
what we're struggling with.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
CHAIRMAN JUDAH:
That's
We have a similar concern.
Trying to put it in perspective.
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COMMISSIONER ALBION: And unfortunately, what
makes it even more difficult is the fact we have the
Concurrency requirements that have to be completed by
1998, and the payback would actually be after that
date. So it's going to be tricky, but I think we all
recognize the importance of it. And I Just think the
public needs to hear the fact that yes, we have certain
mandates -- some funded, some unfunded -- from
Tallahassee that we're going to have to try to comply
with.
MR. FEDER: If I could, Commissioner, I don't at
all for a second underestimate the funding issue. We
share in that concern as well, obviously.
But I will point out to you the statement about
the Concurrency issues, of which we don't bring a bond
issue. I want to make that clear on the part of the
state, that's not our issue. But that being said, yes,
while the payback for that PD&E could be in '98-'99,
for you to move forward and address your Concurrency
issues will require the development of a project
development and environmental study in those phases.
And to be able to meet those in '98-'99, there needs to
be an advancement of those issues.
So while you can do a phase, get the program here,
we program it, it can be done, the payoff is behind it.
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But to bring the project forward, we need to find a
way, if at all possible, to get those moving, and
especially as relates to Concurrency issues, if in fact
that is something you have to address.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What's the federal
government's participation in this corridor?
MR. FEDER: Typically --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: In terms of dollars?
MR. FEDER: Well, some of the portion we have
state funded only. But basically under the federal
participation is about 80 pgrcent, 20 percent state.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So when you mentioned 125 and
85, that's Just state dollars?
MR. FEDER: No, that is not. That is state and
federal combined. And it is not on 80-20, because
there is 80 on the federal dollars, 80 percent, 20
percent state match, and there's quite a bit state
dollars, as well. I don't have that divided, but what
I'm telling you is the state percentage is somewhere
around 60, the federal about 40 in overall dollars
throughout the state.
So the answer to your question on a federally
funded Job, we get 80 percent of that dollar, federal;
20 percent state. But the dollar figure I gave you was
total state and federal dollars in Lee and Collier
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Counties over the next five years and the many projects
that we don't have federal matching on.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: This is U.S. 41; is that
correct?
MR. FEDER: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So is there an opportunity
beyond where you are as the state DOT to look to the
federal government for any assistance?
MR. FEDER: No. The federal process comes through
the state based on allocation formulas and the like,
and federal dollars come through that process to the
districts. And then working with your local
priorities, the MPO planning process, get programmed
into the area. There's not a direct grant program,
like there would be with let's say, aviation under the
highway and bridge programs.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Let's go ahead and move on.
I know at least one person has to leave by about 11:30
this morning, so let's see if we can cover as much
ground as we can.
Next item is FDOT 1-75 Corridor Study.
MR. FEDER: This is the one I referred to when I
said I didn't see the agenda. First of all, we do have
a corridor study under way for all of the interstate in
Florida, actually. Of course, here the 1-75 Florida
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study, which is basically from 275 up to Manatee County
all the way to the toll plaza in Collier County.
The impetus for the study is a number of things,
but there's a policy been established by the department
to address both fiscal issues and air quality issues is
becoming a bigger and bigger part of the process. That
the interstate system itself would be a maximum of
10 lanes on maximum build-out overall on the interstate
system, with six of those lanes being what we call
general purpose and four of them being high occupancy
vehicle, and some separatior between those two uses.
What this recognizes, as I said, as we looked in
Tampa Bay, the plans were calling for something like 32
lanes on the interstate in the Tampa area and the like.
And obviously, the sea of asphalt is desired by nobody
and air quality can never be met with 32 lanes of
asphalt or concrete, I better say, as well.
So the policy was put in place. At the same time,
the Federal Highway Administration had expressed some
real concerns about addressing interchanges one by one,
or piecemeal, if you will, and thought there really
needed to be a better plan to look at the overall
impact with individual interchanges throughout the
corridor.
That study has already been kicked off. There are
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advisory groups In each area, there are going to be
presentations to the Metropolitan Planning
Organizations to keep you folks in the loop. The study
Is slated to be completed about June of this year.
We're inviting anyone that has an issue or item
relative to interchanges that they feel need to be
looked at to bring that to our ~ttention through the
groups or even attendance at the numerous meetings that
we've had up and down the corridor. And we'll continue
to do that.
The issue of interchanges, new interchanges are
very, very difficult. They are possible, but I need to
make it clear the Federal Highway is not necessarily
looking to add interchanges for convenience of
development on the system. Rather, they want to
understand how it helps the overall operation of the
system, and that's sometimes difficult to look at. So
we are looking at some additional interchanges. I would
assume that out of our plan other interchanges will be
proposed and hopefully accepted by Federal Highways.
With that being said, I do want to put in
perspective that they are looking at expansions or
modifications of current interchanges more than they
are looking at additional interchanges up and down the
corridor.
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Is that addressing what the agenda issue was?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Just on the 1-75 corridor and
apart from the issue of interchanges, what is -- if you
know -- the program for the six-lantng of 1-75 between
Allco and 16 in Collier County, for example?
MR. FEDER: First of all, the Master Plan will be
looking at the lane calls. I think you're right. In
that area already we're already looking at the need for
something beyond four lanes in sections of Lee County,
very definitely around the airport, as well.
Interstate funding though, and the ability to obtain
that funding -- that's one of the reasons also, on the
interchange issues, that they are not being funded very
well anymore, is that it's going to be some time before
we are going to see the additional lanes on 1-75, based
on the needs of the overall system and the way the
funding is being received from the Federal Highways.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: 10 years?
MR. FEDER: At least 10 years. And I would
venture probably longer.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You're kidding.
MR. FEDER: No. Not at all.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Mr. Feder doesn't kid.
MR. FEDER: I can tell you 10 years to make you
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happy, but --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: International Airport and the
10th State University are one of the fastest growing
metropolitan areas in the United States, and we're
looking at possibly more than 10 years before we're
looking at six-laning 1-757
MR. FEDER: I make those statements to everybody
that will listen to me.
answer I can right now.
But I'm giving you the best
But you're probably talking
over 10 years before you are looking at expansion of
the interstate in this part of the state. But your
points are well-taken. I can use them.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Anything else?
COMMISSIONER ALBION: Actually, I want to point
out actually, I think Norm sent up what I thought was a
good warning flare a couple months ago. I know, Mr.
Chairman, you were also at that Regional Planning
Conference meeting.
Anyway, but basically, Norm's fears -- and this is
really now beginning to come home to roost -- is the
fact that 1-75 cannot become mainstream. And that's
the reality. And that's why, when we talk about the
north-south roads -- I see it's a little bit farther on
in the agenda we'll be directly addressing it -- it is
definitely therefore going to put the greater burden on
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our two governments most notably.
And I think Norm, the level of concern is very
well-founded, because we are going to -- as
Commissioner Volpe Just talked about, with the new
university coming in and expansion of the airport -- we
are going to have to find more alternative routes. And
more importantly and a much more difficult scenario, we
are going to have to find a way to pay for it. And we
may have to try to find other creative opportunities,
and I'm not quite sure exactly what they are. And we
are going to need help, actually from our public.
That's going to be part of it, potential public-private
partnerships. And even public-public partnerships are
going to become extremely important.
And I'm not so sure -- I can tell you in my
opinion -- Just the mere widening of U.S. 41 and the
widening of 1-75 is not going to solve the problem
that's coming at us right now. We are looking
potentially at a train that's going to be coming down
the track at us and we're standing on the tracks.
So we are going to have to somehow, through these
meetings, I believe, see if there are other
opportunities that present themselves, with the staffs
working together. But it is of grave concern, because
we have these great opportunities, but they are all
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coming at us at once.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The frustrating part is the
state and federal government is looking at 10 to 15
years, possibly, and we're talking about our respective
local governments facing deficits in our own
transportation network in the next five years. So I
guess that's the challenge, isn't it? And whether it's
a public-private partnership?
MR. FEDER: If I could, that was the reason I was
raising, and the department was raising, the issue on
41. That does not mitigate commissioners pointing out
all the issues relative to the other roads that you're
going to be discussing soon. But 41 needs to progress,
because it is and probably will be there before
additions to 75, and they are going to be important to
the growth of this area.
COMMISSIONER ALBION: If I could ask, Norm, I
could be way off base. Is part of this -- and this is
clearly not at your level -- you've been extremely
helpful in this area, and I think we are -- actually,
I'm very pleased and very appreciative for the work you
have done, certainly in Lee County. But is part of
this timing perhaps to try to put the local governments
in a greater position to try to get some of these other
south-north roadways done? If they were to widen and
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start solving the problems, perhaps we would take that
in their opinion as receiving us of some of that
responsibility?
MR. FEDER: No. Very honestly, it's not. Right
now, we did invite your staffs and you'll be starting
to have to develop under the new iced tea --
Transportation Efficiency Act, a federal bill -- you're
going to have to develop cost feasible plans, and we're
required to provide you some projection of state and
federal revenues to help use in the development of your
plan. What came out of that was well frightening, is
the best way 1'11 characterize it. Is that on the
interstate and intrastate is a portlon of that, that
the funding that we have received statewide in state
and federal dollars is probably about 30 percent of
what's needed to build that system over the next 25
years.
And so when I look at that and then I also look at
demands on the interstate, which is a major portion of
that Issue that I Just presented, and I look at it on
the I-4 corridor from Orlando to Tampa, and look at it
on some portions of the 75 corridor north of here, that
is not to minimize our needs. And I will also point
out that our needs are greater than anyone else's in
the state. And that's my position.
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But that being said, I also am realistic in the
fact that those demands already preceded us and are
probably going to get addressed faster than the demands
down here relative to interstate construction. That's
why I answered you question the way I did,
Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Not to belabor this point, it
appears to me to be maybe significant reconstruction
that's going on on 1-75 north of here. That facility
is not yet 10 years old, I guess, so why the
reconstruction that's occurring when we see some other
needs? Whose prioritizing those dollars?
MR. FEDER: You got two things. We recently did
the second stage resurfacing we're going to be doing on
the crossroads that was planned. They allowed us to
use the 90 percent on interstate, the old interstate
program funding for second stage. You built the first
stage, you don't put all the surface on it, and then
you are able to come back in and resurface that after a
number of years, you get that 90 percent construction.
It's less federal participation when you're Just taking
care of it.
The issue you're talking about goes up through the
Sarasota-Manatee counties, predominantly. That's where
we have an asphalt section with a relatively innovative
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design that Federal Highway encouraged us to consider.
It was basically two slabs of concrete. What we found
was water was getting between them, we had cracking
problems and the like. So the actions that you see
there are to respond to correcting those issues, as
opposed to expansion of capacity.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Just as an aside, you may wish to
hold off any condemnation proceedings for right-of-way
for any road projects in Collier County until October
1st, until we actually receive some relief from the
legislature this year amend,,ent in some eminent domain
reforms. Just to let you know.
MR. FEDER: If I could, you've got a big agenda,
but I can't resist the opportunity here with that
statement. Lee County has passed a variance ordinance
on right-of-way acquisition relative to when eminent
domain by public entity comes through a nonconforming
issue relative to signage, parking and the like. That
is something we are going to be bringing forward to
Collier County. It's imperative with where the
right-of-way corridors are hitting us, and you're going
to be hearing more from us on that.
Thank you for your time, and we'll be here
available for you. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Section 4 is the items
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placed on by the Lee County Commission. Chairman
Judah, if you want to guide us through those, you are
welcome to do that.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Appreciate it, Mr. Chairman.
We'll go ahead and ask Mr. Spear to step forward, with
an overview of issues concerning Bonita Springs.
Morning, John.
MR. SPEAR: Thank you, Ray. Thank you, Tim. I'd
like to add that to Dennis Gilkey's welcome to the
folks here today. We are very pleased that nine out of
ten commissioners could mak~ it, and we know John would
be here if he could.
We're very pleased with what we see here today so
far, and I think what we've seen over the last couple
of months in terms of the elected officials' interest
and concern about our region.
As you look at this area here, you see a lot of
vacant land. But up where the "L" is, right off the
map there, that's where the airport and that's where
the university are going to be. And if you think about
the increase in traffic, if you think about the fact
that 10,000 students and probably half that many or
almost as many support people are going to be at the
university before the year 2,000, before we're talking
about improving 41, way before we're talking about
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improving 1-75, probably before we're talking about any
north-south corridors that we're talking about today,
it's really a frightening prospect.
All of us came here today by automobile. There is
no public transportation here, and I know it's
difficult. I know it's difficult for the public to see
that there is -- really the urgency of the situation,
simply because there's not a real big problem right
now. But we are scared to death here in Bonita Springs
that Bonita Springs can turn into a parking lot by the
year 2,000. It can be gridlocked beyond our wildest
imagination. So we need to implore you to really look
at these north-south corridors: The interstate, U.S.
41, and the north-south reliever corridors going along
1-75.
These things are do-able, but they are only
do-able if they're planned. And if you don't start
planning now, nothing is going to happen and the costs
are going to be astronomical. You folks may be gone as
elected officials by then, but you're going to leave a
real mess for those that follow you.
So it's extremely important to our community
simply because we're the ones that are going to have to
live with it and fight through it, day in and day out.
So we see the urgency. Thank you, Norm, for your
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strong words, because it's really heartening, I think,
to see the state have the level of concern they have
about these problems.
The second item, I'm Just here to give a little
bit of an overview to these next three presentations.
Tom Nichols from Wilson Miller, who is also our Chamber
Infrastructure Committee Chairman, is going to talk
about the north-south corridors that haven't yet been
talked about, the corridor that's east of 1-75 and the
corridor that's west of 1-75.
The concern, I think, for this Joint group needs
to be two-fold. Number one, the planning and
coordination; and number two, obviously, the easy
question, which is the funding part of it.
But we need to start talking. We need to start
planning. And in terms of the planning, the one thing
I would caution us all to think about, is that if there
are funding problems, if there are environmental
problems, don't use that as an excuse not to plan. Do
the planning in this generation, do the planning in
these next few years, and let those whoever that follow
worry about the funding, worry about the environmental
issues. Do the planning so there will be some
corridors there when the crunch comes.
The second item is Lovers Key State Park. This
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looks like it's going to be the one big issue that's
not a transportation issue that needs to be talked
about today. I'm going to make a presentation and
Marge Ward's going to make a short presentation about
That's not a regional park; it's a state
Lovers Key.
park.
It's an opportunity for you folks to support a
resolution to ask the state to spend money in our
region. This would be the one opportunity. We are not
going to ask you to spend money in our region, but we
need some local support for that regional issue, simply
because there's a gem of a park up there. It's not
being utilized. It's been paid for by taxpayer's
money, by state money, over 10 years ago. Commissioner
Mann was very supportive of that. And so we're going
to talk about that a little bit later.
Finally, the executive directors of the Regional
Chambers of Commerce are going to come and talk to you
a little about economic development. So once again,
we'd like to thank you all for coming. It's very,
very, very important, and pleasing for us to have y'all
here. And those of us in the community, both the
Chamber and non-Chamber, this community has always been
a very interested, active community and we are here to
work with you, and help you overcome some of these
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difficult problems. So if you all do your part, we'll
be here to help you out and do our part.
So thank you. And at this time, Tom Nichols is
going to talk about some non-U.S. north-south road
corridors.
MR. NICHOLS: For the record, my name is Tom
Nichols, current Chairman of the Infrastructure
committee of Bonita Springs Chamber of Commerce.
Dennis has graciously agreed to carry over for me
an exhibit we prepared for discussion purposes at
today's meeting. We combined the 2010 traffic
financially feasible plans for Lee and Collier
County -- or at least those portions that neighbor
Bonita Springs. And it's clear from looking at this
exhibit, that there's an extensive network of roads in
the Naples area and in the Fort Myers-Cape Coral
central urban area of Lee County. But in between,
there is something of a dtrth of transportation
corridors, as we've heard a lot of discussion about
already.
Within that area in between the two communities,
of course, are three major public facilities that are
existing or proposed, those being the international
airport, the new university, and Lovers Key State Park,
which have all been discussed, or will be today. They
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are all important facilities. It's important,
certainly, to Collier County that there be good access
to each of those facilities. And the absence of good
road corridors through the Bonita Springs-south Lee
County area has a direct impact on Collier County, as
well as Bonita Springs and greater Lee County.
In looking more closely -- and I know it's
difficult from that distance -- at this ma9, you can
see that the Collier County transportation plan shows a
total of 28 lanes of roadway up to the county line.
North of the Bonita Springs area there are only 12
lanes depicted, those being six-lane U.S. 41 and
six-lane 1-75. And as you've Just heard from Norm, it
will be some years before either of those improvements
are in place.
So, for most of the period between now and 2010,
we're really dealing only with eight available lanes.
It's obvious that there is an inadequacy there, I
think. And it also points up that the only major
east-west corridor that is near the north end of
Collier County-south Lee, is Bonita Beach Road. Now
that's programmed for six lanes. But frankly, six
lanes is not likely going to be enough long-term to
connect 28 lanes together into 12 or 8.
I think it's clear from this that there are, in
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fact, additional corridors needed, and we would
encourage both of these boards to do that planning and
to encourage your MPOs to provide for that. There is
at least two additional corridors that are needed: One
east and one west of 1-75.
And I thank you, and turn it back over to John.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What's the corridor that you
envision east of 75?
MR. NICHOLS: Well, it's generally conceived as a
corridor connecting Bonita Grande in some fashion with
Corkscrew Road, and perhaps possibly Tree Line Avenue,
which will be the road accessing the university.
Failing that, perhaps another corridor east of there
that could be the southerly access into the
international airport.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is that something some of
your group are going to touch on, or is that part of
the discussion?
MR. NICHOLS: We have not developed a concept for
discussion purpqses today. There's a number of issues
associated with that. And rather than get caught up in
the environmental and traffic issues associated with
it, and landownership issues associated with those
potential corridors, we want to focus on, frankly, the
need for the corridors. There's a great deal of work
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that needs to be done to establish where they should
be.
MR. GILKEY: You might mention, too, north of
Corkscrew, Three Oaks Parkway is scheduled for
four-laning, and then Tree Line, which is the road that
serves the university, will also be four-laned within
that time frame. So there would be additional eight
lanes north of Corkscrew. It's really the point from
Bonita Beach Road or Terry Street, between those two
areas, which is about five or six miles.
But really, there is the limitation only at U.S.
41, and 75, and that's it, in the 2010 financially
feasible plan, which says this is what you can afford
to do.
MR. NICHOLS: Our committee is doing some work at
looking at potential corridors.
But again, we are not to a point --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I understand where we are
looking at the concept and we obviously have been
talking about Livingston Road as one of those
corridors, but that would be west of 1-75. East of
75 -- 951 had been discussed at some point in time. Is
there any discussion occurring at any level having to
do with 951 going to the north?
MR. GILKEY: I'm not aware of any specific
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discussion about extension of that corridor. The
wetland issues get particularly severe in that
particular alignment. It's likely perhaps that 951
connected with the Bonita Beach Road linking over to
another north-south corridor, Bonita Grande, perhaps.
MR. NICHOLS: I think the issue is the problems
you have there are the same problems that Lee County
would have with the north-south east of 75. So the
problems you have with connecting Livingston, whether
it's the environmental or whether it's the Palm River
area, It's the same type of problems that Lee County
has connecting it north of Terry Street.
So I think maybe there could be some sort of a
Joint county task force to identify those two
corridors -- does that makes sense -- between the two
counties. That might be a very productive thing to
discuss. Because they are both difficult and they are
both really -- you have the same issues north and south
of the county line, environmental, developments already
approved.
If there are no further questions. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: John, you want to speak first?
MR. SPEAR: I'll speak first. The next item on
this agenda is Lovers Key State Park. If you look at
the aerial photograph behind you, Lovers Key State Park
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is that nice little spit of land out there in the far
upper left. We've -- our committee has met with all
10 of the commissioners over the last 11 months, and it
was rather interesting to find that not all of the
people in this room knew where Lovers Key State Park
is. There's where it is, and I think from the air you
can see what a dramatic and awesome piece of beach
front property that really is.
That property was bought over 10 years ago by the
state. Currently in this legislative session, the
house passed a $2 million appropriation to approve
that. It was cut back to $500,000 in conference and is
sitting on the Governor's desk.
The estimated cost of improving that park, with
parking lots, and facilities, restroom facilities, et
cetera, was estimated several years ago as being over
$4 million. It's probably nearer $5 million.
In trying to prepare for this little presentation,
the lady in our community who's been the most active in
pushing for this at the state level has been Marge
Ward. And as I started to talk to her yesterday,
trying to get her to fill me in on what I needed to say
here, I thought maybe it would be easier for Marge to
explain a little bit about the proposed state design.
And then hopefully, at the end of this -- if it's
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appropriate, with the two County Attorneys offices --
we might even ask you to consider a Joint resolution
and have a little discussion here today to see whether
that's appropriate, to support a resolution going to
the state to have the Governor sign that $500,000 and
to appropriate the remainder of the money later on.
So at this time, I'd like to ask Marge Ward to
come forward. And I think Commissioner Mann might have
a few words to say, given he was very active in
acquiring this property while he was in the state
legislature many years ago.
Marge.
MS. WARD: Thank you, John. Good morning,
Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER MANN: Hi. Are you still mad at us,
Marge?
MS. WARD: No, I never have been.
COMMISSIONER MANN: She wasn't mad at Collier, but
she was a little upset with us for a while.
MS. WARD: Yes. I know the commissioners know who
I am. Anyhow, I am Marge Ward, President of the
Citizens Association of Bonita Beach and we are
dedicated to the conservation of our sovereign lands,
which is our beaches and for public access thereto.
Being on a county line, we work in both Lee and Collier
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counties on the state level and the federal level,
where we are opposed to oil rigs In the Gulf.
Now Lovers Key State Recreation Area, as is shown
on the map, is north of Bonita Beach. It consists of
interconnected islands; Black Island, Long Island,
Inner Key and Lovers Key. They are on the causeway
between the New Pass Bridge and Big Carlos Pass lift
bridge. Lovers Key, which itself borders on the Gulf,
was acquired in 1983 by the state through the Save our
Coast bonds, at a cost of $7,863,700. It consists of
434 acres.
It was agreed that Carl Johnson Park could be
transferred to the state, which would bring the total
up to 564 acres. Combined, there would be a total of
8,000 feet on the Gulf of Mexico of beach and 3,400
feet on Big Carlos Pass.
As volunteers, we worked for years selling exotics
using our own equipment and supplies and trimming trees
to use as barriers for the road in the parking lot,
building trails, planting sea oats and manning the toll
booth, et cetera. Now, beachgoers can access the Gulf
beach by driving three-quarters of a mile on a sand
road to the western side of Black Island, and walking
across a wooden bridge to Inner Key and then another
bridge to Lovers Key.
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We term Lovers Key as quote, the Jewel of the
Florida beachfront park system. This state park not
only services Lee County, but Collier County as well,
in the same manner that Delnor Wiggins State Recreation
Area serves -- which is in Collier County -- serves the
people of Lee.
But It also will be used by people from all over
the state and tourists from all over the world, and it
will provide publicity to attract tourists here which
will help our economy and it will be for the usage of
all of Southwest Florida. It's definitely a regional
state park facility belonging to not one county but
everyone.
The estimate on optimum traffic passed in 1986 was
4,920 people daily. The conceptual plans were drawn by
the state DNR and it's planned to be used for day use
only, which will provide greater capacity. The last
estimate to complete the improvements, as John said,
was Just over $4 million. Half of those appropriations
or what was in the house budget this year would
provide -- and Just to give you an idea, things like a
shop and storage area for the maintenance of the park
equipment, extending utility lines, parking lot
expansion with stabilization of both the parking lot
and the road, boardwalks where needed, and repairs to
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the bridges, since this is an island complex. A
sheltered pavilion, standard ranger station to replace
the temporary structure, and residences for on-site
park personnel.
Because the Senate budget contained no
appropriation, a compromise, as John mentioned, will be
anticipated in the amount of $500,000 this year. The
remaining appropriations to reach this 4 million would
provide at a later time picnic areas, visitor center, a
tram, as we1! as restrooms in the beach area instead of
the temporary ones which are in the parking lot.
I have copies for each of you of the plan that was
approved in 1990 by the Board of Trustees of the
Internal Improvement Trust Fund, which is the Governor
and Cabinet. What we need and request is a Joint
resolution from both the Commissioners of Lee and
Collier County supporting the appropriation for the
Governor to sign into law for the 1994 and '95 budget
of $500,000, and for the full appropriations to be
forthcoming in the 95-96 state budget, for the state
facility for the benefit of all of Southwest Florida
region.
I'm repeating because someone already said this,
but we are the fastest growing area of Florida. And
with the Gulf Coast University coming on line, it will
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be a direct line as the crow flies from this beautiful
beach. Therefore, it becomes a must. We'll never have
enough beaches, and it is an undisputed fact that
beaches are our most prized commodity. They provide
our economy.
And at that, I thank you. And if there is any
questions that I can answer, I will attempt to do so.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Marge, you indicated there was no
appropriation by the Senate for any funding, only in
the House?
MS. WARD: Not -- in the current budget there was
not. The Senate had money in their budget for
$1 million, I believe it was, for the Imaginarium,
which is being sponsored by the City of Fort Myers.
And a compromise was reached between the $2 million
that the House had in for Lovers Key and the money
which the Senate wanted for the Imaginarium. And they
took and reduced the amount for Lovers Key to $500,000
and took from the Land Management Trust Fund, which
happens to be strictly reserved for state parks. And
as it stands -- of course, the Governor hasn't signed
anything yet -- but as it stands, that money would be
taken out of the State Park Fund to be used for a Fort
Myers facility, which is not a state facility.
And the DEP has requested that the Governor
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complete a line item veto on that because of where the
money is coming from. Not that there's any objection
to the project, but because the money is coming from
the State Park Fund, and this reduces the amount which
is available for the state parks, and it is the money
that they depend upon not only to acquire, but to
improve and to maintain state parks throughout the
entire state.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Thank you very much. Important
distinction.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I Just wanted to ask
Commissioner Judah a question. Maybe you can answer
this, or one of your colleagues. In your growth
management plan, do you have any deficiencies in your
regional parks?
COMMISSIONER MANN: No.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: No, we do not. Let me get a
clarification and make certain I'm speaking the truth.
I don't believe we do. Bill Hammond?
MR. HAMMOND: As of right now, we don't.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: We're all set.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The reason why I ask that
question is that we, at one point in our growth
management plan, had identified a deficiency in a
regional park and we were able to meet that deficiency
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under a land lease with the state. And we leased five
miles of lineal beach within the county and that
fulfilled our growth management requirements. We're
leasing that for one dollar a year.
My thought would be that if there were an
opportunity with us coordinating that effort to try to
look at this as a regional park, that perhaps if there
were opportunities we may be able to use some regional
park -- and we have impact fees in regional parks. I
assume you have regional park impact fees, as well. If
we were to collaborate on that, we may be able to come
up with some additional funds. Because I think the
polnt's being well made that this is regional. I'm not
looking beyond Lee and Collier.
I'm not sure how much people will travel from
Charlotte County to Lovers Key. There may be some.
But we're talking about seasonal visitors, and we're
talking about our local population. So maybe that's
something we can at least look at if we got -- I think
we've met our deficiency -- between the departments you
might be able to do something with that regional park
impact fees that we are still collecting, and I don't
know how much we have right now. But it might be an
opportunity to look for some local funding for that
type of a facility.
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CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Excellent suggestion. Let me
have County Administrator Stilwell maybe elaborate on
what went on with the Lee County Commission recently
with regards to our capital improvement program
including regional park impact fees.
MR. STILWELL: It's not solidified yet. What has
happened, the proposal to the board that we had this
last week is it reduce the capital program of the parks
by some 30 millions of dollars, $29 million, and will
be going back to the board with that on this coming
Tuesday. Quite frankly, we don't have the money.
That's the problem.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: But to elaborate on what
Commissioner Volpe was saying, the concern, of course,
is the operation of the thing. If we were to fund the
necessary capital improvements to the parks, the
utilities, the bathrooms, etc., the parking area, the
question then would be the maintenance of that
facility.
MR. STILWELL: Yes. And there is a proposal of
Bill Hammond, the Deputy County Administrator, is
working on that. He can tell you better than I,
essentially -- Bill, help me out here -- it's a concept
to use impact fees monies to go ahead and develop the
park and then develop it in such a way that operation
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and maintenance monies would come out of the operation
of the park. And BIll feels confident that we could
generate more than sufficient dollars to take care of
that park and maybe even spill over into other areas.
Bill, is there anything --
MR. HAMMOND: I think that -- Bill Hammond, Lee
County. For the last several months we've been kicking
around a number of options, and one of the options is
that there are some dollars out there that we could put
into the park. We've talked with Representative
Arnold. We have some tourist tax dollars that
certainly could be used to do some of the elements that
the state has already planned for. It wouldn't put $4
million into the park, but it certainly would give us
an opportunity to open up the park and to expand on
parking, wilderness campsites, those types of elements.
It comes back to operation and maintenance. And there,
too, opens up the opportunity of the possibility of
entering into some type of an agreement with somebody
for privatization.
The park itself, it doesn't matter to us who
operates the park, who maintains the park. We think
there's a potential that lays there that we certainly
for 10 years have believed that we should move on.
We still have the Carl Johnson Park open, but
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that's -- in the last six months that has been
evaluated. And because of the boardwalk and the
deterioration of the boardwalks after 20 plus years, we
have a problem with maintenance on that. And to repair
some of those over the next 10 years is going to be in
the millions of dollars, Just to repair what we have.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I don't know if either of our
staffs have been discussing some sort of a cooperative
effort as to capital improvements. But I'm going to
suggest as to capital improvements, there may be some
funding source for the capital improvements. The
operation and maintenance might be a state
responsibility. I mean that might be where they play a
role.
MR. HAMMOND: I have to tell you that the state
did not execute the contract with us, that we had the
agreement to take over the entire Carl Johnson
Park-Lovers Key, and that was in 1990. We were in the
process of down-sizing. We were in the process of
standing down on equipment, on manpower, those kind of
That didn't happen in 1990; we kept the park
things.
open.
I don't think the state is willing to do anything
Just yet. It gives us an opportunity to work together
as a staff and to put the options all on the table, and
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see what we can come up with. We have close to a
million dollars in tourist tax that could be utilized.
We could use some of the elements and some of the
planning that has already taken place by the state.
But certainly, not go the full blown plan.
But it does give us an opportunity maybe to open
up the interior park and do some things with Carl
Johnson Park as we originally planned to do, and that
was close that side of the park and open up the
interior for beachgoers. So there are a number of
options, but it's a little p_'emature right now.
We have talked to Keith Arnold, and I think it's
good what you're going to do now, encouraging the state
to take off on this. But the operation and maintenance
is what is killing us throughout Lee County, and we're
finding -- we have seven projects on the board this
year to open up and the 0 and M of these facilities is
Just a back breaker. And we have to look at every
option in every way to see if we can at least offset
some of that.
So I think we need to get together staff.
we can work with -- you know your staff and our staff
and put John Yarborough and your people in a room and
maybe come up with some options, take a look at the
tourist tax, take a look at the Impact fees.
I think
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Definitely, this is a regional facility that everybody
will use.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The proposal that's before
us this morning is simply to have a Joint resolution
whereby the Collier County Commission and Lee County
Commission both request funding in the amount of
$500,000 for 94-95, for that to be funded next year.
And I think it's appropriate for the Collier County
Commission to Join hands with Lee County in that
effort.
Obviously, we don't want to get into a middle of a
squabble for funding for the Imaginarium and funding
for Lovers Key. But I think the County Commissions can
certainly pass a Joint resolution urging that the state
legislature recognize Lovers Key as a very important
regional facility that will benefit Collier County and
Lee County. And I would urge, if the County Attorneys
permit us, that we go ahead and get on with that
resolution, if it's permissible for us to do that this
morning.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I would agree with you.
Our County Attorney Just suggested that we could
conceptually approve a resolution today and have
official wording come back to us as soon as we possibly
can on a regular agenda.
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MR. CUYLER: I think the sincerest objection, we
would Just take it in a direction for the respective
County Attorneys to work on a resolution to submit to
you in your formal sessions.
MR. HAMMOND: I'm encouraging you to do that. But
what I'm also saying is we should not close the door on
the other options. Maybe we should collectively get
together and see what the other options really are.
Because it's a Jewel and it's something I think that we
can come up with some solutions.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: I really do appreciate the
statement that Commissioner Volpe mentioned with
regards to the possibility of utilizing the regional
park impact fees and certainly what you Just mentioned,
Bill Hammond, about the tourist tax money for
maintenance. That does qualify in the state statute.
Of course, we all know that. So there is some
opportunities here. It Just all hinges on how the Lee
County Commission will address the proposals of our
County Administrator regarding our five-year capital
improvement program. To keep that intact, maintain
those options, we have an opportunity here.
MR. STILWELL:
well at sometime.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH:
It will require an agreement as
Right. So there's still some
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opportunities.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I assume there is no
objection to any member of the board bringing that back
promptly in resolution form?
MS. WARD: Can I make Just one addition to this?
I do know that the state park system Is not the least
bit interested in giving up any control of this state
park to any other entity, state, private or anything of
the sort. Because they themselves consider this, as I
mentioned before, the Jewel of the beach front state
park system. And although ~hey have not had the money
to this point, it is looking better all the time as far
as getting the money is concerned.
And I don't really personally -- and I know
there's a lot of people agree with me -- that either
the constituents of Lee County or the constituents of
Collier County should have to shell out $4 million for
something that is going to be a facility for everyone
to use, and that the state is perfectly willing to back
the money. We might have to wait a little bit longer.
But if we could have the support of both of the
commissions pushing behind not only a private
organization, but the Bonita Springs Chamber of
Commerce who has been working for this funding, it
would help out very much and would permit you, instead
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of using your funding that is designed for other
things -- because I mean, if you pick up the paper, I
know both counties have problems financially, and
you're having to cut back on certain things. And that
causes a lot of trouble with your constituents and also
as far as maintenance of those. A lot of them have
even been worded in the paper that some places may have
to be cut back because you can't afford the
maintenance.
Why not let the state keep the state facility and
everybody in the state has co pay for it, not Just the
people of two particular counties down here, which are
already oppressed by an influx of people. If we can
get the state to come up with the money, even if it is
in installments as it is, and keep it rolling, that
could be done if you people on both sides of the line
would sign some type of a Joint resolution and help us
try to push beyond Just what we have up to this time.
And if you could and if you would, it would be very
much appreciated.
MR. HAMMOND: Mr. Chairman, as I said before, I
really don't care who manages the park. I do know that
the state has told us that they had to stand down on
several park facilities throughout the state. I Just
think there's a way that we can all collectively get
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together and do something positive.
I think we have
the opportunity to do that.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: The Collier County Attorney
has Just said we can probably have that on by this
coming Tuesday. I know you folks don't meet Tuesday,
but perhaps if he communicates with your attorney we
can both have a resolution of identical nature on next
week's agenda.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Absolutely. We bring it on ours
next Wednesday.
MS. WARD: On behalf of everybody who has ever
been there, we thank you. And if you have never seen
the park and you'd even like a personal tour, we'd be
more than happy to show you what it looks like. Thank
yOU.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Thanks for your dedication,
Marge.
COMMISSIONER MANN: Your Chairmanships, your
plural Chairmanships, Just a thought. I want to tag on
something Bill Hammond said about a possible
partnership. That's what we're here to talk about
between the two counties and the state. We need a
three way deal here as it relates to Lovers Key, Black
Island, the whole package. For instance, I don't know
what is planned for phasing if this half million comes
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through, and I think it will. My best information is
the Governor's not inclined to veto that, because
that's been part of PNR's proposal for years. And it's
been in the pipeline, as it were, and it finally got
this much money. I think that's going to be pretty
safe.
But what we need to do now is know what we are
going to do with that half million and how we can
dovetail our own local efforts with the state's and at
least taking advantage of the first phasing of that
500,000. I don't think the ~tate really has a clear
idea how that's going to go. So if it's possible for
to us come out of here with an agreement that the
commissioner from Lee that is closest to this can meet
with the commissioner from Collier, and have the staffs
of the two begin a dialogue how both the capital
funding and the long-term operational funding and the
state's role, how they can all come together, beginning
immediately with a half million dollars in capital and
come down, there is things that can be done here right
away.
And I also don't understand how the state is
planning to charge, what type of an admission fee, and
how much that's going to generate. But with the three
of us working together.
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I can tell you a history -- and y'all know this
without my saying it -- is that the state is going to
be far more inclined to help with areas where the
counties are doing their part, too. The partnership's
Just going to work better. So this particular project
here really lends itself to a two-county effort
alongside the state. I bet we can move this more
quickly than any of us might imagine here if we get
that dialogue going and maintain it. So I hope that's
one of the things that comes out of here.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Commissioner Mann, Just I
think later on in our agenda there is an opportunity to
perhaps consider that type of a collaborative effort
and not project by project, not Lovers Key and U.S. 41,
but rather some sort of an interrelationship between
Collier and Lee at a minimum to address these kinds of
issues. That's council of local government officials,
which I think hopefully we'll be able to at least
conceptualize later on in the agenda. I think this is
really, as you point out, one of the keys to that.
COMMISSIONER MANN: I'm for that. And that
general partnership is cried out for. That's why we're
here. I'm sorry I missed the last one. But we need to
be, I think, also very specific on this one and
focused, and we can make something happen here a lot
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more quickly.
While I'm at It, I don't know if we're here for
the purpose of passing out kudos. but taxpayers pay
for all these things. DeSalvo =here, the little Bonita
boy in the white shirt, he was the facilltator in
putting this whole purchase together a decade ago. The
Irony of this is, we bought that thing -- we, the state
in a former life -- knowing we didn't have the money
then to provide for the capital improvements and the
operational expenses. But we believed that within a
very few years, three to four years, the money would be
forthcoming for the operations and improvements there.
Well, It's a decade later. Fortunately, we have
the land, but we're still talking about who's going to
pay for it. So time's awasttng, and this could be such
a Jewel for Southwest Florida. I'm glad it's part of
the agenda today and everybody recognizes what a team
work effort could do to bring this thing on more
quickly. It's about time.
Thank you, Andy. I'm glad you're still alive to
watch this rapid progress.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Okay. We'll hear from the
Chamber representative. Morning, Bob.
MR. BELLAVANCE= For the record, I'm Bob
Bellavance, Chamber of Commerce Executive in Bonita
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Springs. And I'm absolutely delighted to have this
opportunity before you this morning to talk with you.
how, not only as we see governmental cooperation this
morning, is the coordination between the three Chambers
of Commerce, being Naples and Southwest Florida and
Bonita Springs. Between, with these three Chambers, we
represent over 4,000 businesses and probably over
200,000 people that are employed in the Southwest
Florida area.
The docket item says coordination, but there is
really three C's here. Ther6's coordination, there's
cooperation and there's communication. And over the
last four months or so, this has improved tremendously
between the three Chambers of Commerce. It's an
absolute pleasure to work with Chamber of Commerce
professionals like Allon Fish from Naples and Steve
Tyree of Southwest Florida.
Some of the things that we're going to be doing
over the next few months are enhanced networking
experiences between the members of all of our
organizations and some economic understanding and
planning situations. Well, three of us are supposed to
speak, so now I'd like to turn this over to Allon Fish
of Naples Chamber of Commerce, who will then introduce
Steve Tyree.
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MR. FISH: Thank you, Bob. And I think we want to
thank the Bonita Springs Chamber and certainly both the
County Commissions for working on and arriving at this
day and this agenda that is certainly to benefit
everyone that's here and everyone that you all
represent.
I've had the opportunity over the last five months
of hearing Norm Feder speak to groups like you and
others, I guess about five times. And I come away from
each one of these having learned more than I probably
thought I ever wanted to know. But I must confess to
you, whether it's from your side of the fence in the
public sector or we from the private sector, deal with
the various aspects of the state government, it can be
at times a very negative experience. And It occurs to
me that this man may be one of the best friends that we
have in the state government. And I'm continually
Impressed with what he brings to the table.
There is not time to say all of the things that
need to be said, could be said, perhaps should be said
about economic development here in Southwest Florida.
But to boil it down to its essence, I think that it is
Important to recognize that Lee and Collier County are
at the heart of an area that we view as an economic
region. The ecomonies of the two counties are more
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Intertwined each day. And as we both grow, we have
more in common than ever before. We enjoy business
people who own businesses and operate businesses in
both counties, and that continues to grow. There is a
regular flubble of people and of commerce back and
forth across this Invisible line that continues to
grow, and It's something that draws us closer together,
whether we like it or we don't.
You know, In 1993, the top companies In our
nation, the Fortune 1,000 companies basically,
downsized by approximately 6~0,000 Jobs in 1993. And
if you look at the last 10 years, the downsizing of the
major U.S. corporations amounts to nearly 5 million
Jobs.
And when I was presented with that information for
the first time, I asked myself as you must, well, where
did all those people go? And where those people have
gone is something that we need to pay attention to.
Because they have started small businesses, they have
Joined small and emerging businesses and medium sized
companies throughout our country. And that's where the
economic development activity is today and very likely
will be in our future.
History shows that over the last 20 plus years
that 75 to 80 percent of the new Jobs created and the
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new capital forum in this country have come from
existing business and industry. And we think of
economic development efforts as we know them, and there
are over 7500 organizations in this nation that are
actively involved in economic development in one way or
another. Many of them, maybe even most of them,
focused on recruiting major U.S. industries to their
communities. Now does that make a whole lot of sense?
I think where our focus needs to be and can be and
should be in the future is where the action is, and
that's at the smaller end, the more focused end. And
we have opportunities in that area that we need to
pursue.
Lee County has a mature and successful program
supporting economic development. Representatives of
the private and public sector in Collier County are
engaged in an ongoing dialogue that is sure to
strengthen the future of economic development in
Collier County.
Between Steve and Bob and myself -- and I was
little bit dismayed to realize this -- we represent 64
years of chamber management. ! won't tell you who's
the longest nor average ages. And that involves about
12 different Chambers that we have served in, most of
those in Florida.
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As representatives of the business community we
three have developed a very close working relationship
and a dialogue out of both interest and concern over
conunon issues, many of which have been discussed today
and more that have not been, but hopefully will be.
We cannot help but remember, Commission, in this
process that the Business Development Council in Lee
County and the Economic Development Council in Collier
County are also extremely important partners in the
process.
I'd like to assure you that our focus is on trying
to get things accomplished. It is not on who's going
to get the credit. It is on how can we get things
done. Because when you focus on that, there will be
more than enough credit for everyone to go around. You
already understand many of our common concerns. They
involve U.S. 4! either side of the county line, the
future development of the Regional Airport, that is so
critical to our mutual economies, the development this
fall of a mutually sponsored economic outlook
conference that each of you w£11 be invited to come to.
Those are Just a few of many, many things that we are
working on together.
Cooperation is good for both communities, for both
counties, for all of the organization. And we believe
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that that sets an example of what one cannot achieve,
together we may be able to achieve. And so we believe
that, we are working on that together.
And now I would like to introduce Steve Tyree, who
is the President of the Southwest Florida Regional
Chamber of Commerce. I didn't get that right, did I?
I've still got to learn it.
MR. TYREE: Thank you very much. Appreciate that.
Good morning. The best chamber presentation can be the
briefest chamber presentation, so let's get on with it.
Thanks for coming together today.
I've heard an important concept discussed at this
table that I want to underscore for you today. It's
called partnership. What you've heard my two
contemporaries talk about this morning is a partnership
that we are working on. We encourage you to continue
to work on yours. This is evidence of some outstanding
effort on your part.
Allon talked about some evidence of our
partnership that you can look forward to in the next
several months. Our last quarter Regional Economic
Outlook Conference, which will bring together national
and state recognized personalities to talk about the
future of our economy. We want you involved in that
and we will seek out your interests. Our tri-county or
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trl-chamber network session which will take place in
July, we will invite you to and hope that you will
participate.
You heard Allon talk about the active dialogue
between not only Chambers of Commerce but economic
development orgnizations. You should know that even
today those organizations are working to bring new
business and to expand business in your marketplace,
and they are working together.
Last but not least, some of you are involved in a
few days in a project called Leadership Southwest
Florida. It is an opportunity to bring together
regional leadership and create a regional vision for
our community. The focus of that endeavor will include
specific dialogue and strategic planning in the area of
economic development, education, governance,
infrastructure, leadership and quality of life. For
those of you who are participating, thanks very much
for that commitment. For those of you who are
anxiously awaiting the feedback from those sessions, we
are anxious to share it with you. We think it will
help bring together the public and the private sector
in our multicounty area. ! might allude to the fact
also that Charlotte County also has representation in
that effort.
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Last but not least, let me applaud you for today's
effort. This is an outstanding start and that
partnership that I talked about is evident at this
table today. The frequency of these discussions, in my
view, should be increased. What you have started is
something that I think we have going between our
Chamber of Commerce organizations.
And that's the second word I want to leave you
with today, and that's synergy. The synergy that you
are creating here will have a lasting impact for our
citizens and our communities for some time to come. I
hope that you will consider increasing the frequency of
these opportunities and your working together so that
you can accelerate that synergy.
Thanks very much to all of you, and thanks to my
colleagues for being here today, as well.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Thank you Mr. Tyree. Dennis?
MR. GILKEY= I want to wrap up and I'm going to
repeat what Steve said and be very brief. There's a
few other items under regional coordination that I
think mostly we hit with you and you discussed
yourself. A couple things that were hit on last
October that you may want to pursue in future meetings
or have some direction today on.
Collier County, I'm not sure if you have adopted
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your economic element yet. I know you were working on
it last October, you were starting to work on it. And
at that time, last October, Lee County had Just adopted
its economic element.
Something you should think about as you go through
your periodic updates of the Comprehensive Plan, is to
look at those two together and reflect what the Chamber
representatives have mentioned to you today. There are
certain commonalities and certain individualities as
well, in those economic elements.
Transportation, one of the other things that's
been discussed from time to time, is mass
transportation. We talked about the limitations of the
north-south corridors, how many regional transit
systems or transportation -- in this area, it's
probably bus -- that you see In the country. You see a
lot of them, probably most of them. So keep that in
mind, that it doesn't have to be a county by county
system.
The 10h University, I think we've hit on that as
far as that being something that both counties'
Comprehensive Plans should identify and reflect the
Impact of that and Regional Airport in your economic
elements.
The Items of drainage, we did hit on that last
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meeting in October. I would suggest -- and there has
been a Joint meeting between the staffs since that time
to address the drainage in the areas that do have a
connection -- very ill-designed connection -- between
the Imperial River watershed and the Cocohatchee River
watershed. If we're talking about roadway systems that
go through those watersheds, and the environmental
issues, that's the time, probably, to tie that in with
the drainage and environmental purchase issues and
those types of things that you also have in common in
the area east of 1-75. So I would Just leave that with
you.
Thank you again for meeting. One thing that you
did last October that worked was you set the date, I
believe at the meeting, this day of May 5, 1994, as
your next meeting. Tentatively you confirmed that.
That may be something you may want to do before you
leave, is at least have a tentative date and come back,
however long you think is appropriate at this point in
time. Thank you again very much.
(A recess was taken.)
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Chairman Judah, have you
concluded the Lee County agenda items?
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Yes. I believe we have. We are
all set to go on to public comment and Collier County
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Commission items.
COMMISSIONER ALBION: I didn't know, I can either
save some comments for later or I could address them
now. What would be your pleasure? I Just had some
comments made on earlier presentations and Just a
couple of thoughts that come to mind for me. Or if you
want me to hold off, ! wouldn't have a problem with
that. Which would you prefer?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
those comments.
COMMISSIONER ALBION:
You are welcome to make
Okay. Just some points that
I wrote down and I believe that Mr. Fish actually hit
the nail on the head. From what we're hearing -- and I
looked into a bit about on the economic development
side of what is going on, as far as trends go. And
there clearly is a desire -- and this is nationally,
not Just locally -- towards the entrepreneurial spirit.
And that does link itself back to small business
growth, and so on, which quite frankly, is what made
this country grow up and become great. It was not the
Fortune 500 and Fortune 1,000 companies that did that.
So we might want to consider -- and I'm a big
believer that economic development should be done on a
regional basis -- and if you look at the parts of the
state that clearly are getting to the front end of
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economic development where they are having successes,
it has been more on a regional basis and not on a
county by county basis. And I most notably would like
to point out the Polk County area where they have seen
some real success.
I believe that we really have to try to move in
that direction if we're going to actually be able to
compete. We have an opportunity to the expansion at
the International Airport, especially the cargo freight
opportunity, because now we can be accessed for
supplies by air, not Just b~ ground transportation.
And I think we have to seriously look at that.
I also believe that we should be looking most
notably at environmental and socially responsible
companies as an opportunity because the university is
going to be based on the environmental sciences. It
will also create a more cooperative arrangement with
our tourism industry which necessarily would make a lot
of sense. Economic development and tourism do not have
to necessarily compete with each other. They can
actually benefit each other. And I believe that that's
one area.
And if you look worldwide, you're going to find
that most countries are actually moving more towards
the socially responsible attitude. And actually, the
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United States is behind in that. That may create a
real opportunl~:y. When you look at that and you look
at the positioning of Southwest Florida in that regard,
! think there may be some opportunities there besides.
I'd also like to at least throw on the table --
and I mentioned it a couple times in Lee County
government and to a couple of different groups -- that
perhaps we can look at a public-private type of
business group that could try to learn a bit more about
some overseas companies or at least overseas countries
as to how they do business, ~o that when we do try to
perhaps attract certain companies that would be
beneficial to this area, that we do not go over there
and try to Americanize them, but instead try to deal
with them on a basis in which they are more comfortable
and familiar, which would be a more attractive element.
And I believe by getting the private sector involved in
that, will up our level of expertise because they have
already operated, of course, in the business community,
and that would be a big benefit. And I would
personally like to see that done more regionally rather
than Just done locally.
I also would have you note that I believe in
economic development and I think we're already moving
in this direction. But the marketing dollars we spent
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from our bed tax, T.D.C., are really being driven
through the research of what's going on economically in
other countries. So therefore, they are positioning
the dollars to areas that are not in economic
depressions or recessions but instead towards countries
that have people that will be able to afford to come
over. I think from an economic development standpoint
we have to be Just as shrewd. That's going to be the
best way we are going to be able to compete. So from
an economic development standpoint, I'd like to see it
done regionally -- personally, I'd like to see it done
regionally -- and I believe these are some of the areas
that we should be concentrating.
The second question or point I'd like to pose
would be -- and I don't know if this has occurred -- if
perhaps members of the legislative delegation that are
directly affected or representing, shall we say, these
two counties, if they have been contacted about these
meetings and at least be given the opportunity, of
course, to appear and listen to what's going on, If not
the ability to make presentations if they would so
desire. The reason why is, when you look over this
agenda, I'm seeing a number of items that we are going
to be asking them to promote, and if can get them into
the ground floor where they would be willing to
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participate, I think it would be clearly beneficial.
And I would recommend that for the future as an
opportunity.
So those are a couple points that I would like to
bring forward. I would also hope that we would
continue meeting like this, but also to try to get,
frankly, much more result-oriented. We are being
somewhat result-oriented here today, especially when I
look at the situation with Lovers Key and the Joint
resolution. But I would hopefully like for us to
consider either having the btaffs look at a number of
areas where we could have Joint participation.
We've talked, I will tell you, at a Port Authority
meeting of maybe having a couple of non-voting members
from surrounding counties, and that's based on the
present Port Authority rules, to at least be able to
participate in the meeting, so that way we will be
looking at our airport on a regional basis, not Just
locally. That's Just one area.
But I think there should be a number of areas,
like economic development, like the environmental
situation, where maybe then, when we are doing our
budgeting, we will also be able to properly dovetail on
a regional basis, not Just on a local county basis.
And I think that would be beneficial.
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Therefore, if we can then have these meetings to
be able to give greater direction to our staffs and be
able to come up with a number of results, it's going to
continue to fuel these meetings. So that way, it will
continue to keep the enthusiasm level at this high
point. I think it will be again, very beneficial to
all of Southwest Florida, but most notably to Lee and
Collier counties.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I agree wholeheartedly.
There needs to be a regional outlook as far as economic
planning and all. There is acually a subcommitee of
the Regional Planning Council right now that has
community leaders from throughout Southwest Florida
participating in that. That may have planted seeds for
something we can take advantage of. I know they have
been meeting quarterly for about a year now. So we may
take advantage of that, and with their assistance be
able to not have to start from scratch and reinvent the
wheel at this point.
COMMISSIONER ALBION: Absolutely. And you're
correct. I appreciate that.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Collier County has Just
three brief items.
Line. Mr. Dorrill.
MR. DORRILL:
The flrst is Lee Cares Complaint
In a genuine interest of time, we,
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members of my staff, have been evaluating the Lee Cares
program and working with the folks in Don's office.
And we've sort of taken what we think are some of the
best elements of your Lee Cares program, trying to
incorporate them into a community awareness and hot
line and logging and follow-up system. And on the 17th
of May we'll be announcing to our County Commission a
program called "Can Do". And we've even got sort of
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: It's going to be a gala
event. Don't miss it.
MR. DORRILL: We've got a cutsie-pie little
mascot. And we're going to be appearing at a
government awareness program in the main mall there in
Naples, Coastland Mall. And it's part of the Tropicool
Festival with our Chamber of Commerce.
But I Just wanted to publicly recognize the Lee
Cares program and in particular, the assistance we have
we received from Don's office in trying to do the same
in Collier County. I think historically from time to
time we've said that maybe we always didn't want to
copy our older brother to the north of us, Lee County.
But your Lee Cares program is an excellent one and we
commend you for it. And we have swiped some of the
better elements of it and incorporated it into it.
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CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: The second item under Item
5 is the council of local government officials. Mr.
Volpe.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: This is something that, a
product of some of the discussions that we've had with
our counterparts from Lee County, as well as the Joint
meetings that we have had with the City Council, and my
observations about the lack of coordination that exists
between those various local governmental entities,
including the school boards within certainly Collier
County, and also as a result of some of the discussions
that I have had with the respective Chambers.
And scratching my head and doing a little
research -- I'm trained in the law -- I actually
discovered a provision in the Florida Statutes that
provides what I believe to be the vehicle to bring
together all of what we have been discussing to date,
and that is this Concil of Local Governmental
Officials. It's 163.02 of the Florida Statutes. I
brought that item up conceptually with my colleagues at
one of our meetings recently, and we dispatched our
County Attorney to do a little research on the subject.
I have shared with Commissioner Judah, and
presumably you have received that communication --
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Yes.
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COMMISSIONER VOLPE: -- and I have also shared it
with the Bonita Chamber of Commerce. For those of you
who are not familiar with it, we need to get familiar
with it because it is, in fact, in my view, the
vehicle. It allows for all respective boards to
appoint people to serve on a Concil of Local
Governmental Officials with the power to do such things
as to study government problems as it deems
appropriate, including but not limited to promote
cooperative arrangements, cooperative action amongst
its members, make recommendations, review and action
members and other public agencies, to do things in
terms of economic development, which is an issue that I
think has been mentioned.
So what I would like to suggest to all of us -- I
don't know whether Mr. Cuyler has had an opportunity to
do any research -- but maybe what we can do is at the
very least -- Ray, did you make copies or share any of
this with your colleagues?
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Actually, I did not. I was
hoping we could hear from you directly.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Okay. Gentlemen and lady, if
you will look at 163.02, I'd like to get some direction
from this body to explore the possibility of creating
that council. It may be that we would consider a
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council which would be bicounty; someone from Lee
County Board of Commissioners, someone from Collier
County. It may be important enough to get someone from
the Port Authority, as well. Some of you serve on the
Port Authority. I don't know who else is on the Port
Authority. There may be a reason to include a
representative from the South Florida Water Management
District.
Because what we do is, we meet as committees and a
bunch of us, and we have I think conceptualized and
we're working a little better than we have in the past.
But I think the point has been made we conceptualize,
we allow our staffs to follow up on some of what it is
that we discuss. But it seems to me that this would
provide a continuum to leave this meeting and to have a
council work together and then report back to this
collegial body, to come up with fleshing it out in our
respective commissions. So it's 163.02.
Ken, do you have anything to add or not?
MR. CUYLER: We're still in the process of looking
at it, contacting other areas of the state. I'll be
able to provide Mr. Yaeger with a recommendation.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Ray, if I could maybe ask
your County Attorney, as well, and maybe at one of your
upcoming board meetings you could at least discuss it
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amongst yourselves. Conceptually -- and I only speak
for myself; I have learned that over the last six
years -- but I think conceptually, we as a body, have
thought that it's a good idea. And what I hear
discussed today is that it's probably something that is
a formal organization that could be used and I think it
is being used in areas like Polk County and others,
that benefit from it.
That's the direction. We've conceptualized it,
our County Attorney is supposed to be coming back with
Just a little bit more information, and then, maybe if
your group feels that it's an idea worth pursuing,
maybe the respective Chairs of the boards could bring
it back to our bodies and we could look at how we do
it, go about creating that Council.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Fine.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Meet you at the baseball
game. Finally, do you have.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: I was going to say that's fine.
I appreciate the suggestion. I think that dovetails in
with the concerns about mutually working together,
economically in terms of promotion of mutual concerns,
drainage, transportation, et cetera. So certainly, I
think it's a prudent approach to take.
Let me Just say that I'll run it through our
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appropriate channels, get the feedback from the fellow
Commissioners. We'll have a chance to dialogue on this
next time we all meet together. But certainly prior to
that meeting, I will make co~ents and communicate to
your Chairman in advance.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE= We're meeting every six
months on this.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH= Yeah, we'll move on this prior to
that next meeting, but we'll have a dialogue at that
meeting.
COMMISSIONER MANN= Yo?r Chairmanship, if I may,
so you don't have to wait and ask me later and risk
violating the Sunshine Law if we don't have a chance
like this when it's all properly noticed, I think it's
an excellent suggestion. We work in the Regional
Planning Councils with multiple counties. But
realistically speaking, the two counties in Southwest
Florida that are on a collision course of expense if we
don't adequately coordinate our own efforts, are
Collier and Lee County. And all of the activity and
growth -- not all of it, but a significant portion of
it -- is right here where the two counties come
together, the Bonita area.
And to the extent that these two counties can work
together more closely -- and if we can't, it's going to
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be difficult to get five County Commissioners, both
sides together, I bet, more than twice a year. But
subcommittee types or agency of what you're describing,
I think could be very effective in helping us
coordinate.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I like your suggestion as
well, but I think it's important enough that we don't
wait six months to get it to the next point. And I
guess we'll work on our side and maybe, as I say, you
and Commissioner Constantine can coordinate it and
rather than waiting for our ~ext formal meeting if
there is interest, and I would hope that there would be
and there seems to be.
COMMISSIONER MANN: Well, I'm in favor right now
as designating our Chairman as hit man for Lee County.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: I'm in no way implying we wait
six months. The point I was making is we'll certainly
do the groundwork in advance of that next meeting and
we'll have an opportunity --
COMMISSIONER MANN:
chomping at the bit.
MR. STILWELL:
Mr. Stilwell over here is Just
What has been suggested is very
common on the other West Coast, that being the West
Coast of the United States, and it's called Council of
Governments, and it's a routine thing. It's very, very
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common. I think it touches every place you want to go
and does include all the various entities, the cities.
They will take a representative from each one of the
cities -- elected representatives, I'm talking about --
someone from the county, and they combine it over an
area of its impact, such as this area here. And it
makes a lot of sense and really does work very well.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: My thought process has been
that you can make it too big, and we may want to do
something within Collier County. But right now for
bicounty, I would say if we could get representatives
of this body and maybe one or two other, whether it's
the Port Authority or whether it's the Southwest
Florida Water Management District, and we don't think
in terms of other municipalities or municipalities
within either one of our counties, for this purpose to
address these kind of bicounty issues that we're
dealing with.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Anything else on that item?
Final item before we go to public comments, is the
ever- popular beach parking fees.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I guess I put that on our
agenda.
COMMISSIONER MANN: You did?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: It's not too late to
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withdraw it.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, since we are only able
to discuss these items as bodies in a public forum, I
Just wanted to -- since it's an item that we have
touched on -- we have found we are experiencing that as
a result of your actions in Bonita, that it is
impacting upon our community parks within Collier
County. Impacting that is, that if there is an
opportunity to avoid having to pay a fee to park. As
you know, at the north end of Lely Barefoot Beach, we,
Collier County, have a parking facility. So you're
charging and we are not. And we are probably going to
discuss this again. I would like to think we will.
If you could -- Just one of you or all of you
Just -- we talked the last time that you were directing
fees from the beach parking to satellite parking
locations? Just a little update as to whether that is
occurring. Specifically, I understood at our last
meeting that some of the fees that were being collected
from beach parking were being used, perhaps, for lease
arrangements at Bonita Springs Plaza, or somehow a
lease so that you can have remote locations. That's
not occurring?
CHAIRMAN JUDAH
Hammond elaborate.
My understanding -- I'll let Bill
No, we've had complete cooperation
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from Summerlin Square for those that use the trolley to
Fort Myers Beach and the K-Mart Plaza merchants and the
developer of that shopping center.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
CHAI~AN JUDAH:
So you don't pay anything for
I don't believe we pay anything
for the use of the parking.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How about the trolley itself?
MR. HAMMOND: Free trolley.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Who funds it?
COMMISSIONER ST. CERNY: Fort Myers Beach CRA
funds a hundred thousand of it.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: They provide a minimum amount of
funding assistance. It's not for them, but certainly,
when you take in the overall cost to operate the
trolley system, the Estero Island Community Development
Program does provide 112,000 in fact, to help subsidize
the trolley service on Fort Myers Beach. But through
our Lee-Tran System, we insure that we provide free
trolley service for those folks. And it's a
comprehensive network from K-Mart Plaza all the way on
up to Summerlin Square in the northern end of Lee
County.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
county-wide?
Is the beach parking you have
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CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Takes in from K-Mart Plaza --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: No, no. You're charging
now -- we read locally in our newspaper about the
master meters at Bonita Beach. But I'm asking whether
the beach parking program is throughout the county.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Yes, it is on the major beach
parks. Lynn Hall Park, Bowman Beach, Bonita Beach.
MR. HAMMOND: Those are the three areas.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Now, the other more recently
developed regional park, Bowdich Point Regional Park,
has only minimum parking for handicapped,
disadvantaged, service vehicles. We encourage, because
of the limited amount of parking, people to take the
trolley to get to Bowdich Regional Park.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So, but you've answered my
question, it is a county-w/de program?
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Yes.
facilities. Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
For the major beach park
That's really it. I Just
wanted kind of an update as we begin to contemplate our
'94-'95 -- '95-'96 budget.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS:
'94-'95.
Commissioner Volpe, I've
talked with our County Manager about the beach parking
problems in Collier County, and we talked about looking
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at shopping centers that are a little distantly removed
and the possibility of instituting a shuttle program or
involving Dolly the Trolley in moving people from
inland parking areas to the beaches.
come up with something.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
Hopefully, we'll
The only thing, when we first
discussed it, I've actually -- and we mentioned other
governmental entities, for example, schools. I mean
schools don't use their facilities, to my knowledge, on
the weekends. So when you take 111th, you get a whole
parking lot at Naples Park Elementary School that's
vacant, that is a very short distance.
So beyond involving the private sectors, I believe
there are some opportunities with the public sector.
That's something we'll be discussing. But I wanted to
get a little input about the experiences that you're
having. And nobody is not going to the beach now as a
result of having parking fees that you're aware of?
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: Only complaint that I have
received is there is not enough parking.
MR. HAMMOND: Mr. Chairman, I might add it might
encourage you to take a look at our park master system
that we have at Bowman's Beach, and also Bonita Beach.
It's an automated system and it's something that's been
able to keep down the operation and maintenance of the
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coin operated.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
generally?
MR. HAMMOND:
What's the cost of it, Just
Seventy-five cents an hour.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: No. What's the cost of the
master meter, Just generally?
MR. HAMMOND: It's about 10,000, 10 to 11,000 for
the system. We've had very good success with the
maintenance on it and with also the maintenance
contract that we have on it, if it does break down.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I~ there a limitation as to
the number of vehicles that it can handle? 150 spaces
or --
MR. HAMMOND: It can handle anything you want. It
can be programmed to anything. We have 80-plus parking
facilities at Bonita Beach and 100 some-odd at Bowman's
Beach.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Thank you. That's all I had,
Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: The final item on the
agenda, and perhaps the most important, public comment.
I don't know that we have a formal sign-up process for
this today. I don't know if anybody is taking slips.
So anyone who would like to comment on virtually any
issue, now is your time.
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I want to thank Mr. Mann for the fine decorations
we have.
(Discussion off the record.)
MR. WYLES: I'm Just a retired proud eight-year
citizen of Bonita Springs. I'm not a member of the
Chamber. I'm not a business anymore. I Just enjoy my
retirement. But I would like to be a little bit more
active.
We talked about roads and the traditional way of
looking for space for new roads. But when you live in
an area, you see things, yo~ hear things, and there are
some things that I think we can do to better improve
the flow of traffic with a very reasonable cost.
Norm, I'm going to do a little brainstorming as I
was listening here, and I'll give you a couple
examples, because I live in the area. Terry Street is
roughly a half mile from the Bonita Springs
interchange. In order to go from Terry Street to the
interchange right now -- and there is huge communities
off Terry; you got Citrus Park, you got Southern Pines,
you got development all along Terry -- in order to get
a half mile, you go roughly two miles to Old 41, two
miles to Bonita Beach Road, two miles out to 75. Now
these are people that are going to 75 because a lot of
people in Citrus Park and these areas, when they come
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in with their trailers, they are using 75 to come in
and out. And that's a very bulky type of
transportation that is Jamming up Old 41-Bonita Beach
Road. I'm Just throwing it out for a brainstorm
consideration.
Up in Canada, they parallel their expressways with
feeder roads. You have an opportunity now, probably on
the east side of 75 where there is not a large buildup,
to use a feeder type road. You would eliminate a lot
of traffic on heavily burdened roads right now.
Example.
Another example, we are looking for north-south
corridors, and I know Collier County is coming through
with Livingston Road and they are pretty well on their
way. It's going to force Lee County into doing
something with that traffic that's going to dump out on
Bonita Beach Road. In order for Lee County to go
north, they are going to go through a well-populated
area, which becomes very expensive. I think Mr.
Crawford knows the problems they have when they are
going through a highly dense populated area.
We have Grand Bonita Boulevard sitting out there.
It's a straight road, nothing on either side of it, and
it ends up -- I don't know where it ends up -- but you
can feed -- Just throwing it out as a suggestion -- you
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can feed Livingston Road by expanding Bonita Beach Road
and swinging it out toward Grand Bonita Boulevard. Or
you can use Terry Street. You can come straight
through to Terry and do the same thing. You can expand
Grand Bonita Boulevard by six lanes if you want to.
There is no problems out there.
Land acquisition I would assume would be minimal
compared to what you're going to try to do by going
through and paving Bonita from wall to wall with
concrete. You got to do it now. Because this wasn't
planned before and now we're going to cause ourselves a
problem. But here we got a chance east of 75 to look
where there is less population, less buildup of land.
And it shoots right down to the university. Just a
suggestion.
I know -- one other suggestion. I know the state,
when they built interchanges, probably because of the
loop cloverleaf interchanges, the land necessary for
that type of interchange takes a beck of a lot more
than what we have in Florida. To me -- and again it
was nearsighted, because the type of interchanges we
have now not only restrict traffic, but you're crossing
lanes to make a turn, but also they are damned
dangerous. I don't know how many accidents we've had
on Bonita Beach Boulevard because of people crossing
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and cars zooming up Bonita Beach Boulevard. It's
probably too late, but it's a good possibility that you
could eliminate that somehow. I don't know. I'm not
designing anything; I'm throwing out suggestions.
It scares me to death. I know when I get off at
Pine Ridge Road and 75 and turn to visit people in the
Vineyards, I tell you if they don't have major
accidents over there within the next whatever, it will
be very surprising to me.
So and also, when you have --
COMMISSIONER MANN: Three minutes, Carl, three
minutes.
MR. WYLES: By the way, I am an engineer, so I
have some qualification.
MS. MAGGIO: Morning, or afternoon. I've lost
track of time; don't have a watch. My name is Emily
Maggio. I live in Little Hickory Shores. I'm a
25-year resident of the community of Bonita Springs.
And I know I say that every time I stand up to speak,
but I do so because quite frankly, I love this place.
I'm very proud to be a member of this community. I can
tell you the rank and file people have always worked
together. We play together, we do business together,
we party together and it's all worked out fine. We
sincerely hope that the two commissions can do as well
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2.5
as we have done, for our benefit.
I'm here today as a messenger. A large contingent
of Collier County residents would like for me to
deliver a message to the County Commission and to
Commissioner Volpe, in particular. What they would
like to say is under no circumstances are we interested
in any parking fees at the beach, irrespective of what
has happened on the Lee County side of the line.
We also feel that because of the resolution passed
less than two years ago by a majority vote of the board
saying that in the best interest of the public the fees
would be eliminated, we feel this is not an appropriate
forum to be talking about the fees. We should discuss
it at our own public hearing in Collier County.
The contingent of people I represent is the
property owners of Naples Park, via Vera Fitzgerald,
their representative; President of Bonita Shores and
Little Hickory Shores President Jane Hayward for her
association; Jack (inaudible) for the Willoughby Acres
membership; Jerry Brown for Turnbury Membership;
(inaudible) for the Naples Park Area Association and
their membership; and Beth Erickson of the Pine Ridge
Civic Association. We also have the support of
Landmark Estates and Isle of Capri Civic Association.
None of them could be here today. We found out it
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would be a discussion item very late. However, if it
should come before the board, you can expect that we
will all be there.
I thank you very much for your time.
MR. DORRILL: Ms. Maggio, for advance notification
reconsideration of beach parking fees will be included
as part of the Manager's Tentative Budget, and the
board has selected their three line item budget
workshop days, and you should probably coordinate with
Mr. (inaudible) so that you and members of your
affiliated associations will know in advance when
that's going to be discussed.
MS. MAGGIO: I appreciate that. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
wish to comment?
COMMISSIONER MANN:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
Anyone else from the public
Well, bring Carl back, then.
Mr. Chairman?.
Mr. Volpe.
I Just was going to suggest
before we adjourn -- maybe this is what you were going
to do, and I apologize -- maybe we should contemplate
when the next Joint meeting would be. My preference
would be that it would be sometime before November 8th.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: How about the evening of
November 7th? I assume we could. I don't know if we
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all have our calendars with us but find a mutually
convenient date perhaps sometime in mid-or late
October.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH= Could my office coordinate with
your office?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE= Yes.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: I can tell you right now I
would have difficulty with the third week in October,
which is what the problem was last fall. But it's kind
of a standard week that I'm in Maryland.
CHAIRMAN JUDAH: If you would like, let's go ahead
with a tentative date, if you can come up with one.
MR. DORRILL: The first Thursday for discussion
purposes in October would be the 6th.
COMMISSIONER MATTHEWS: That's acceptable to my
schedule.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Any objection to October
6th?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE= Don't arrange it around my
schedule, because I'd like to be here in another
capacity, in any event, so.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
obviously, sometime before October.
of you would like to add?
COMMISSIONER ALBION:
We'll confirm that,
Anything else any
Just think, can we Just
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conceptually agree that the first Thursday in October
and the first Thursday in May is when we'll plan for
these meetings so we don't have this discussion on an
ongoing basis?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
else, we stand adjourned.
Sure. If there is nothing
Thank you very much.
(The meeting was adjourned at 12:05 p.m.)
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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF COLLIER)
I, KAYE GRAY, Registered Professional Reporter and
Notary Public of the State of Florida at Large, do hereby
certify that the foregoing proceedings were taken before me
at the date and place as stated in the caption hereto on
Page I hereof; that the foregoing computer-assisted
transcription, consisting of pages numbered 2 through 103,
inclusive, is a true and accuratJ record of my notes taken
at said proceedings.
Dated this 27thday of May, 1994.
Kaye ~ray ~/
Registered Professional Reporter
STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF COLLIER)
The foregoing certificate was acknowledged before
me this 27th day of May, 1994, by KAYE GRAY, who is
personally known to me.
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