BCC Minutes 05/31/1994 W (Strategic Plan)DATE:
TIME:
PLACE:
COLLIER COUNTY
STRATEGIC PLANNING MEETING
ORI61NAL
May 31, 1994
9:00 a.m.,
Collier County Library
REPORTER:
Jacquelyn D. McMiller
Deputy Official Court Reporter
Collier County Courthouse
Naples, FL 33962.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
Ill _
A-T-T-E-N-D-A-N-C-E
BOARD MEMBERS
Timothy J. Constantine -
Burt L. Saunders
Michael J. Volpe
John C. Norris
Chairman
~TAFF:
Mike Smykowski
Dick Clark
Norris IJams
Mike McNees
Tom Olliff
Bill Lorenz
Paul Brigham
Tom Conrecode
Leo Ochs
George Archibald
Jennifer Edwards
ALSO PRESENT:
Professor L.E. Martin
George Flagler
John Drury
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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
PROCEEDINGS
MS. EDWARDS: Nell asked me to tell you that he had
better things to do. His wife is in labor. She went
into the hospital probably about 1:00 o'clock this
morning, wasn't it Tom? So, there will be a new Dorrill.
MR. IJAMS: Did you check the pool?
MS. EDWARDS: I haven't checked the pool yet, we'll
call the office and check during the break time. What I
want to do now is welcome Professor Martin and thank him
for being here.
MR. MARTIN: Good morning, once again. I want to
have a few opening remarks here this morning and then you
can get going and run the show. I had some time, since
our last meeting to do kind of an unofficial
conversational research prospect with the citizens who
live and vote in the county.
Since this subject is often talked about in almost
all social circles, we really don't get a lot of input
from the public coming in here even though all the
announcements have said, "Open to the public". So, it's
somewhat of a disappointment.
I went out and talked to 25, 30 people Just in
broad terms, kind of following what John Nesmith said in
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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his book, to find out what the costs were and this is
kind of a consensus of what most of them talked about. I
think most of this is already in your planning prospects,
it kind of reinforces what you already decided on as
major topics.
A lot of them, the people were saying they wanted a
planned approach to county growth to ensure the good life
in the county. That's a very big subject. These people
are concerned about what they read in the paper, hear on
television about all the people moving here today.
I've heard a number of figures. One figure that I
heard was 28 families a day, I don't know if that's true
or not. Another one I heard from the real estate people
on the radio last week was 6,000 a year. So, I mean,
it's happening and they're concerned.
Number two, is the comprehensive long range plan to
provide adequate water, solid waste disposal, adequate
sewer treatment, roadways and traffic control. You
selected those are some six major control areas, to
control the growth of them and limit kind in the county.
Number four, economic development in keeping with
county growth to ensure jobs that contribute to the tax
base to control desirable business development. I think
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
you're right on target as of now, do you agree John?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes.
Where is Tim, is he here yet?
MR. MARTIN:
Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
Yes.
MR. MARTIN: Anyway, I thought that would be a nice
way to kind of compliment your planning efforts to this
date. It sounds like you're on target. We met so long
ago, I was kidding Jennifer, I almost forgot who I was.
If you recall we had selected the eight major
planning areas and we discussed in great detail the first
four and we had them on the board here at the last
meeting and then we gave staff members an assignment to
provide for us the plans that were already in effect for
those areas for the coming year starting October 1st and
with some extensions into the other years beyond that
where they were going to be completed over a period of
time.
Without -- it's at your pleasure of course, but I
think while we ought to start this morning is for you
people who are the planners, to talk to your
administrators about what they have put in your report
for the first four areas to see if you have questions or
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
discussions that's necessary to clarify what was handed
to you. It's a big assignment because you got it such a
short time ago. We did have technical difficulties to
try to put that on paper to make it easier to read and
easier to use.
If that's the way you'd like to start out this
morning, I suggest that's what we do; talk about those
first four and talk about whatever expenses that were on
the report that was handed to you and then we can go on
from there and if we have time we can develop input from
the commissioners on the second floor of the major
planning areas.
So, whoever wants to be first, you can Jump right
in there now and we can go along.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Are you suggesting that we
start with, for example, central services?
MR. MARTIN: The first four, yes, which would be
the very first page. Knowing that many these have
already been planned and already been approved, but if
you have any questions or want any discussions or
anything, that would be the time to do it.
MR. OLLIFF: You want to Just walk them through,
walk through these?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MS. EDWARDS:
MR. OLLIFF:
fiscal year '95.
MS. EDWARDS:
Excuse me?
Do you want us to walk through the
I don't know if the Commissioner's
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have had an opportunty to read them. We don't want to
belabor it, to be sitting here reading to you. We'll ask
the commissioners, would you like each of the
administrators to talk you through each of their
presentations?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes.,
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I was going to say that I
skimmed through this. We've seen all this material
before, this is not new stuff. If it would be helpful to
get the discussion going and walk through it.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I don't think we need line by
line, I think basic overviews about concepts, about water
and sewer.
MR. MCNEES: On the water side, starting with
fiscal '95, there's only two major issues, the first
being the update of the water master plan which is
something that's sorely needed, we'll be recommending to
you for fiscal '95, the overall plan to be rewritten and
updated. We don't see anything in the upcoming years,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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fiscal '98 and '99, and that's the reason because the
plan is so old that it needs to be brought up to date.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE= When was the plan developed?
MR. MCNEES: About six years ago, i believe.
Actually, more like seven years ago. It's well outdated.
The other major issue for fiscal '95, you're going
to see us talking about the expansion of the North
Regional Water Treatment Plant and eight million gallon
per day expansion. Our flows for this season were high
enough to go ahead with that expansion and all the things
that go with that, well field expansion, new ingestion
well at that plant, those would be the issues for 1995.
The next couple years, then, the development of the
ASR program, the Auqa, Storage and Recovery Program for
potable water given. You'll see the testing for that is
in fiscal '95 as well. So, in the outer years, then,
that will become a developing issue the Aqua, Storage and
Recovery, those would be the major water projects that
you see. Also in fiscal '95, a major line construction
to fill in the backbone of the system and that will be
relatively well complete, and that's really all we have
on the water side.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Can I ask a couple questions
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
on the master plan, water master plan.
sewer separate master plans? '
MR. MCNEES: Yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
by Mr. Montez, about the same time?
Are the water and
The sewer and the master done
MR. MCNEES: I believe the south county master plan
was done by Mr. Montez. The waste water is broken into
north and south county plans. In fact, there's been a
south county master plan update completed that's being
reviewed by staff at this point and it will be brought to
you within the next couple months. I haven't personally
been through it at all myself.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Who did the water master plan?
MR. MCNEES: Counselor (Phonetic) Townsand, I
believe, did the water master plan.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That has not been updated
since '86 or '877
MR. MCNEES: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Does Marco Island fit into
that because Marco Island in terms of the waste water
side, that's, it's kind of --
MR. MCNEES: They're a different district.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Marco Island has some of which
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
l0
the county has responsibilty for and some of which SSU
does.
MR. MCNEES: In terms of the old plan, I don't
think so. In' terms of the new plan, that's something
that still has to be decided, what you want the scope of
that to be, whether you want to include Marco Island as
far as providing some capacity for them, that's an issue
you all will have to give us direction on.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Two sides of that issue,
number one is, on the water side, as a water master plan,
I'm not sure whether Marco Island SSU has solved their
short term potable water issue.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
on that if you'd like.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
can give you some insight
I guess, the only thing, John,
is whether it fits into master planning.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, that's a policy
decision we're going to have to deal with at some point,
!
whether we feel that the county should assist SSU in
their efforts to provide water for Marco Island. Right
now, they're supposed to be handling. If they don't
handle it then I guess we'll have to.
To let you know what I've been doing, I've been
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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working with Big Cypress Basin Board and some of the
engineering firms to develop a system of providing raw
water for the county for the future so that we don't have
to be concerned with where our water supply comes from.
Just, very briefly, it'll involve redirecting some
of the canal waters, most probably into a system of
resevoirs, flow through resevoirs which will then provide
the raw water supply for the county for the future and in
doing so it'll address a number of environmental concerns
at the same time. Of course, the Marco Island water
supply will be addressed in that plan.
The problem comes, that Marco Island needs
something in place by December 31st of this year when the
lease for the Collier pits expires. The plan that I'm
talking about and I'm working on is going to take much,
much longer than that, of course, to build.
So, if we can get over this December 31st hurdle
with SSU somehow then we'll have some time assumedly, to
go ahead and work on the plan to solve the problem
permanently.
~ COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
That's on the water side.
That's on the raw water side.
On the sewer side, there are
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
obligations as I recall that the county has as to a
certain number of customers come on line that the county
is supposed to provide sewer to people within a certain
distrists on Marco Island.
MR. MCNEES: The county, there's a question of
whether there's even capacity to treat. We don't do the
treatment there, SSU does the sewage treatment so we can
only put in collection that they have in their capacity
to serve and that's at issue at this point.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What we're talking about, this
is part of our strategic planning, you've got central
services and Marco Island is part of the county and so
somehow it needs to be fitted into the plan and when you
talk about the master plan, whether on the water side, it
probably doesn't include Marco Island, based upon what
commissioner Norris said.
When we talk about on the sewer side, which is not
a part of this, you've got an issue where you say that
the county does have certain obligations to provide waste
water treatment services or facilities to Marco
Islanders.
MR. MCNEES:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
Collection services.
Collection, but we're not
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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doing what we're supposed to be doing.
MR. MCNEES: No, that's not correct. Densities
aren't, there are areas now they're Just reaching the
densities, The rule of thumb was 50 percent density
would be required, anything beyond that would require
collection systems. The health department, I spoke to
Larry Leukin (Phonetic), and they are not seeing any
empirical data saying there's a problem, you need
collection systems in any of those areas.
They're saying, sure they'd like it if there were
collections systems and took out the septic tanks, but
they're saying there's no mandate, there's no requirement
for that.
So, given the treatment capacity problems and the
simply the cost of the collection system, there's no
compelling need at this point to sewer into those areas
at.this time.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: My only suggestion is we need
to somehow fold that into the overall plan relating to
central services. Going back to point number one which
is voter's expectations having to do with us meeting
their, central services to meet with the growth and
obviously there's a fair amount of growth occurring.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I certainly agree with you.
Of course, one of the options that we need to look at
seriously on this board is, Mike touched upon the point
that the little treatment plan down on Marco is fairly
close to capacity. I'm not sure exactly where it is but
it can't expand to serve all the island build-out,
surely.
There's land constraints, they Just don't have the
room down there, I don't think to make they'll make any
kind of a major expansion. So,..as a long range policy
decision we also need to look at building sewer plant
somewhere down there that would handle Marco, off island
somewhere and perhaps allow us to phase out the plant
that's in Lely over time, also.
need to look at.
COM~IISSIONER VOLPE:
I think that's what we
The other part of that, I
think the 1300 acre parcel that used to be Marco Shores
which is apparently going to move forward, I don't know
how they're going to go sewer that community.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, that's part of the
problem that we need to be addressing now. All of that's
going to have to come on line at some point.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Probably in the next five
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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years. It seems to me like, under that item, that
somehow is part of that overall scheme. We need to
package all of that in there.
MR. IIARGETT: In terms of servicing, would the
county and water sewer district be a preferred
alternative in terms of providing services through third
parties such as this? I think that's the general policy
issue. As we look at it, do we look at it in terms of
phasing out the existing plant that exists? Do we look
towards, on the water side, of providing additional water
to SSU or do we look at, perhaps, more of a regional
approach to solving some of the problems in that?
It's kind of a policy decision I believe we kind of
kicked around. How do we come to this?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: My recollection is that these
are called the regional waste water treatment facility.
I think that's how it's described. I think it's based
%
upon a region as opposed to the alternative. That would
be my personal preference.
MR. CONRECODE: Mike, are there still territorial
issues that relate to what Mr. Volpe's talking about?
MR. MCNEES: Absolutely. It's not just a decision
that the county has to make, there's still the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER~COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
territorial issues, they have ongoing business that,
territorial issue of SSU certificate areas. Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, Commissioner Norris is
working with SSU presumably and Big Cypress Basin to try
to work out some part of a short term solution to raw
water supply for Marco Island SSU.
I would think that if not at the same time that
those discussions about territorial issues should be
handled sequentially. I mean, it's something that's
going to back us up as it relates to concurrency at some
point. If the treatment plant at Marco Island is at
capacity, at some point it's got to relate to some sort
of concurrency issue.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's why we're in the
process of extending the line down. How much can we pump
in that line? How big of a line is that?
MR. HARGETT: It's supposed to be ten.
issue.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
Is that water or sewer?
That's fresh water.
Mike's saying there's a sewer
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
Well, fresh water supply is
what's time critical to us right now.
They're very
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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close,, I think they exceeded their capacity several
times during this season so I'm not sure what they're
planning to do about that at the moment, neither are
they. How much water can we supply at that distance?
MR. HARGETT: That I can't answer off the top of my
head other than to say, based upon the direction that the
board might provide for the near term, we had planned to
design that line but not to install. Water's being
purchased from SSU into the Goodland System in which
developments are being supplied with the existing tank
and new pump station.
The thing that we've been talking about recently is
the need to excelerate the installation of the feeder
line to provide the county water not only to those areas
but an alternate supply source for SSU, as a matter of
policy the board will provide that water.
MR. MCNEES: In the short term, we don't have the
treatment capacity to give them the water they want any
way so they've already asked us can we commit a million
gallons per day. We have an agreement with them now to
provide that on as available basis, and they've asked can
we commit that on a guaranteed basis and we can't. We
don't have the capacity. So, that the line is somewhat a
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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moot point, we don't have the treatment capacity to give
them a million gallons a day. That's in the near term.
MR. HARGETT: But as far as the five year plan
went, that becomes very much a part of it.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I understand, and I guess
probably just to rap up on the water side, you mentioned
the north county waste waters treatment plant and the
expansion, it.seems to me, it's part of the same thing,
it's part of the strategic planning, that we need to
encompass or include within the strategic planning
specific issues that have been identified with respect to
Marco Island, a very important part of our community.
Aren't we already under expansion at the North Collier
Waste Water Treatment Plant.
MR. MCNEES: Yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So, that's already in process?
MR. HARGETT: That's true, but remember what Mike
said in terms of looking at the county when it came to
waste water. It's a little bit different water system.
We're actually looking at the south master plan, you're
looking north. We're not saying whatever we do up north
will solve the problem down south.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I understand that. Again, I
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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thought that the challenge in the north regional waste
water treatment plant had been met, that we had committed
to going forward with the 24 million gallons per day, and
we changed the treatment methodology, we've done all
that. I thought that decision had been made. Is that
not the case? I'm just asking if the decisions about
what needs to be done at the north county, if the board
has already made those decisions.
In terms of changing the treatment
MR. CONRECODE:
type, yes.
MR. MCNEES:
You'll see, it's a phased expansion,
there's another expansion schedule for fiscal '97 to that
facility. You're not building 24 million gallons today.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Right.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: So, the question is what we
want to do today as far as long range planning on both
the water and the sewer side.
MR. MCNEES: The question seems to be, with what
I'm hearing is, how do we get past the county water sewer
district master plan from county-wide strategic planning,
and how do we deal with those Jurisdictional areas. I'm
not sure what the answer is. It's kind of a policy issue
as we stated, what you want to state as the preferred
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COb~TY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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provider and how you want to consider the SSU and other
utilities.
MR. CONRECODE: I think some of those also become
tactical or operational type issues, policy decisions and
not strategic planning issues. From the strategic
planning perspective, we need to be looking at the sewer
master plan and water master plan, some of the major
plant things. Certainly those issues are going to come
up, but I don't think on the strategic planning
perspectives should be with the operational, tactical
issues.
CO~ISSIONER VOLPE: But, they're a part of the
overall strategic plan, that you have to address those
operational aspects of the master plan for the south
county or for the water master plan for the overall
county.
MR. OLLIFF: I think what Tom said, when the work
plan comes to you for the master plan update we'll have a
discussion at that time about how do we incorporate
utilities into our master plan. We don't want have a
plan that puts the county in a position of what if, if
those things occur, we want position ourselves better to
be in a position to deal with providing those utilities.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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I guess that's the discussion. Rather than putting it
here where it says master plan update, we come to you
with a master plan update work schedule and put that in
and if you tell us how far you want us to go with that
master plan.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, yes, but, I think where
the two integrate is that under normal circumstances we
shouldn't have to plan for anything that SSU is doing but
it appears that we are going to have to include in our
plans something to supply them with water and possibly
sewer in the future and that's where it all integrates
into what we're doing here today.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The other part of that too is
that we have an action plan which was two years or three
years old when we were down at Marco Island as part of
our Townhall meeting, we had discussed taking that plan
off the shelf, dusting it off and taking a look at it,
and it includes not only SSU but also includes Golden
Gate and with the issues that arise in terms of treatment
capacity at Golden Gate in the .city itself, I mean, that
seems to me that somehow that too is part of a regional
system.
The board has to determine whether we want to be
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
the back stop in case these private utility companies
aren't able to do what it is that they want to do or do
we want to get more aggressive, which was some discussion
some time ago, Commissioner Matthews isn't here, but the
discussion was that there were some recent cases that
have changed, that the method of determining compensation
when you acquire private utility companies.
MR. MARTIN: Let me interject something here, going
back to the responsibilities that we talked about four or
five months ago. It's the commissioner's responsibility
to write a plan and you hit the nail on the head, what
are you going to do about the need for more water and the
need for more sewage waste treatment. It's up to the
administrators to put that into operation. That's their
responsibility, you write the plan and they carry it out
and they report back to you on what's happening.
Is that what were getting at before commissioner?
COM/~ISSIONER NORRIS: Pretty much, yeah.
MR. MARTIN: In a nut shell, the county
commissioners need to agree on a plan, to address the
subject and then turn it over to the people that are
going to do it.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS= Anybody got a pencil?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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COMMISSIONER VOLPE: My plan is, I'd like to see us
go back to the action plann that we had two or three
years ago and dust that off and bring it up to date, and
see it as a part of an overall plan and strategy for the
next five years is that the county incorporate the
private utilities into an overall regional system with
both waste water and water management. That's what I'd
like to see.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Let's give a direction to get
that started. I think we're going to have to make sure
that the county deals more directly with these private
utilities because I think we've perhaps ignored them a
bit expecting them to handle things on their own. Now,
it's getting kind of tight again in this one situation.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Volpe, I don't have
any objection to dusting off those action plans. That
plan, that study, that was done three years ago to look
at the potential cost impact and so on out in Golden
Gate, we were looking at above $7,000.00 per household by
the time all was said and done, if the county was to
purchase the Golden Gate system.
Even if you spread that over a period of time,
there are a number of homes in that four square miles
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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that are $60,000.00 homes, $65,000.00 homes, that people
are living month to month right now.
So, an extra 30 bucks, 40 bucks, 50 bucks, breaks
them, takes them out of their house. While it fits nice
in the big picture, the reality is there's an awful lot
of 9eo91e out there that don't have a lot of choice.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I guess as 9art of the plan as
far as the residents of the community we have to look at
what the alternative is for them, you're saying $7,000.00
back two or three years ago, if the county were to
approach it on a regional basis and acquire the system,
the alternative is what's it going to cost them if
Southern States Utilities does increase in capacity and
is it going to be $6,000.00 versus $7,000.00.
MR. CONSTANTINE: We did that analysis three years
ago, I have no objection to doing it again now, but we
did that analysis and actually costed it out over 20
years. It was more expensive for the county than it was
to keep it as it is.
That's by no means to indicate that everyone's
happy about Florida City Utility. Golden Gate system has
the highest prices anywhere in Southwest Florida. Taking
that into account it was still more expensive.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I'm not insensitive to that,
but I just would remind you that we Just dealt with that
issue in the south county and those $60,000 homes in the
four square mile Golden Gate City are probably $50,000.00
homes over in south county. It's a reality. It's a fact
of life and we have to be sensitive to that. I don't
know that cost alone should discourage us, and again, I
don't think you're saying that.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Again, I have no objection to
looking if it's more expensive, it kind of defeats the
purpose, I guess.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
to looking at it either.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
I don't have an objection
I think we're going to have
to do something because we found out that we have
situations popping up here that have a potential to be
critical. So, we need to do something about it.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We kind of danced around
acquiring Southern States as well as the Golden Gate
Utility. The Florida City Utility is probably within
reach. I don't believe SSU is within reach and for us to
build a plan around that, it's Just not going to happen.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I think you are probably
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
26
right. We would be in a position buying the utility
twice and they're not happy with what they're paying now
so I'm not sure they'll want to do that.
I think we do need to plan to help them with their
capacity problems to help them with both sides, water and
sewer. That's what we need to do down there. So, is
that the direction we're giving staff to do, is to start
to making a plan up?
MR. CONRECODE: In terms of a strategic plans,
could you elaborate further on that one particular line
item, the master planning system to include or --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think looking at
feasibility, I think we want to look at to include
everything so we know. Update the three year old plan.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yeah, the people involved in
making that master plan for Marco Island have gathered
enough data and they could tell you what the water supply
needs would be at build-out. I think we should plan on
assisting SSU to renew that particular need.
I'm not sure that they've done the same thing on
the sewer side so we may have to develop our own
information on that to see what kind of capacity we need
to assist down there but certainly those should be a part
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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27
of the plan.
When you say dust off the plan, what you mean is to
bring the plan back, and Just update all the information.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Yeah, yeah, I think
Commissioner Saunders is correct. I think we concluded
the last time, SSU, I think at that time what was looking
at 15 million dollars or maybe more.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: It's going to be four or
five times that.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: In terms of what comfortably
could be afforded whether we could do it, the answer was,
"No". The change in how you determine compensation, I
have no idea what impact that may have. It may be
something worth looking at. The emphasis may be as it
relates to Marco Island as part of our strategic planning
to provide assistance to the private utilities primarily
on Marco Island as it relates to'both the water and on
the sewer side and also if not aggressively looking at an
acquisition with southern states -- with Florida Cities,
they've had some capacity problems on the sewer side as
well, don't they, and they're not building. They've got
a water storage tank that's on Green Boulevard that they
were supposed to have built a year ago and they've got an
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
extension on that so they have must have some issues that
they're trying to deal with as well that we can provide
some support for.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Several years ago, to my
recollection, we were in the process of negotiating
acquisition of those utilities. That put us in a
conflict. They set their rates at the same time that we
were trying to negotiate a purchase price. One approach
is for us to take back the rates setting jurisdiction of
the public service commission as well as the areas of
services.
That would put us directly involved if there's any
deficiency in their service areas or their quality of
service, that would put us directly in an ability to
regulate them at that point.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's a great idea. I
spoke with Fred Dudley some time last year about that and
he said if we wahted to pursue that let him know.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I don't think really he
needs to drag anything through Tallahassee it's state's
statute that there's some notice periods.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah, there's some weird
window, the first five years we could take it back, the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
29
next five we couldn't or the next two we couldn't. I
can't remember how that goes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The law may have changed, I
haven't read it in many, many years. It used to be
simply that with certain amount of notice, counties can
take back jurisdiction after the expiration of a couple
of years. That date has expired. There may now be
additional restrictions. That Would be a matter Ken
Cuyler can advise us to.
So, that's probably the answer to our dilemma here,
how do we get involved with SSU and Florida cities?
We're involved in rate regulation as well as their
franchise area.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think as part of, that's a
part of the strategic plan, I think, as well. It's Just
that a part of it. It seems to me what Mr. Norris was
suggesting wasintergrating them within the overall
regional system or providing whatever type of assistance.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's what we need to do,
you're suggesting updating the master plan, then we need
to intergrate into that what we feel that we're going to
need to provide private utilities that normally wouldn't
be a part of that plan.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, MAPLES, FL 33962
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30
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Picking up what Burr says, in
terms of accountability bringing in the issue of
reasserting jurisdiction over their rates.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: i think that sends a clear
signal that we're not looking to acquire these utilities.
From a legal standpoint we've attempted to set their
rates from day one, attempted to argue that we were
setting their rates arbitrarily low.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think that's what we're
hearing, Commissioner Constantine raised an issue, I
think, Marco Island. If one of the utilities wants to
enter into negotiations for the sale then at arms length
I assume that can happen, I think condemnation, we're not
interested in going out and condemning that utility. If
you want to talk to us about it, you know.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Exactly, but in the interim
we're addressing the problem. If we plan for supplying,
for example, Marco Island, we could supply them with
either raw water or we could supply them with finished
water if we feel they're going to have a treatment
capacity problem in the future. We could do it either
way or both. It may turn out we need to do both, both
raw water and finished water. We could certainly do
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
31
that. If it turns out they find themselves with a
capacity problem at some time in the future, then we've
got it planned and we can step in. I think that's the
sensible thing to do.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The down side to that is
rate setting hearings. That can be time consuming. The
SSU would have to pay for all of that. In terms of THE
· length of time it takes, that would make the APAC hearing
seem like a short lunch recess.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Its unhappy residents to
boot.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's always the case, as
long as we understand that.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Isn't that what we talked
about, though, meaning the actual users of the system, it
would be easier for them to come to the government center
to voice their concerns than it would be for them to
travel to Tallahassee before a meeting of the public
service commission.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The public service
commission methodology is terribly flawed in trying to
take care of the customers. They come down, have a
public hearing, two or three members of the public
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
32
service commission show up. They go through the motions.
It's very frustrating to the customers.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Once last point on the
utitlity issue and that's the City of Naples, two issues
there, number one, I know we talked about the the
interlocal agreements that have not been updated as far
as I know and I'm not sure what our time line is as to
whether we'll ever get them updated, I think that was no
less than two years ago, we've had a change of
administration in the city. I'm not sure whose current
with that.
As the city begins to talk in terms of annexation
in a different context, seems to me the that the question
of these service areas, right now, I'm getting my water
from the city of Naples. I live east of Airport Road, so
I'm not sure how much further, you know, they may want to
take the service.
We've got the area across from K-Mart that are
still on septic tanks. The city doesn't want those
customers. Someone's got to take them. It's an issue
that I'm not sure how it's being addressed, if it's being
addressed at all.
In terms of interfacing with the private utilities
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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33
it's part of the same thing that we have to somehow work
with the City of Naples and try to redo those interlocal
agreements. Somehow we need to be a part of that plan.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Let me just suggest that we
give the direction today then for the master plan that
are existing to be updated and integrating all the
criteria and the things that we've talked about here this
morning that need to be added to that which probably a
lot of these conditions weren't, either didn't exist or
weren't critical at the time those plans were formulated
in the first place.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You agree, Commissioner
Norris, that in addition to the private utilities with in
the area as well we would also include whatever
additional, "public" utilities.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Not only do I agree, but I
assumed that as matter of planning we've always included
the City of Naples.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
the county attorney as to what the procedure would be
with the ESE and what that means in terms of our
authority. -~
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mike, is there anything else
I'd like to get a memo from
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
34
as part of this discussion?
MR. MCNEES: No, sir, not from my point.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Garbage, solid waste.
MR. MARTIN: Was there an assignment to be made
here that is well defined?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: By the board?
MR. MARTIN: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yes, I think so.
MR. MCNEES: We'll add some language here in our
master plan discussion to talk about a couple of bigger
issues here to put that into the plan.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Are you going to then bring it
back, Mike, with a goal and then our objectives and
measurables; is that how you're going to break that out
in terms of implementation. Is that going to be next?
MR. MCNEES:
for all of them.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
Yes, we'll have to determine process
Okay, fine.
MR. MARTIN: Does that, that should conclude water
and solid waste for now and sewer.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: It doesn't include solid waste
but water and sewer.
MR. MARTIN:
Do we have any discussion on that at
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
35
this time?
MR. LORENZ: Yes, I'd like to go through with the
board. The plan here on pages~two and three, basically
reflects some operational decisions but to a large degree
some strategic issues. As kind of introductory types of
questions, that I think the board is going to be faced
with are key questions, strategic questions, within the
next six to nine months basically.
One of the questions is whether the solid waste
disposal is even going to be in the county or outside the
county. If it's going to be inside the county, I think
you have questions of where it will ultimately be
located, what's the nature of the processing? And if
it's locatd in the county, another issue, major issue, is
whether it's going to be done by the county or
privatized.
Those are the types of questions, let me walk down
some of the areas that we've put together. On page two,
as kind of a head's up look at it, F¥ '97, '98, we
recognize that the collection contract is going to expire
and give the county a possibility for renewing the
collection services with waste management and Immokalee
disposal so just in terms of looking at our five year
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
36
window, the board will be faced with that in the latter
part of planning session.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
supposed to be.
MR. LORENZ:
When are those negotiations
Is there is provision in contract?
It allows for us to evaluate whether
we want to renew the contract. I backed it off a year in
FY '98, FY '97, is basically bringing the discussion
topic to the board regarding whether you want renew the
franchise agreement and pursue those options.
The other items on page two, item number one, use
of sythetic cover. Staff has evaluated, done the
analysis and feel we should be going with the synthetic
cover and that could save us some additional space in the
landfill and that was consistent with the two proposals
that you heard talking about their plans. Staff has
evaluated that independently and I feel that is the way
to go. One item that --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How about the cost though, I
realize it'll save space.
MR. LORENZ: The cost of some of the synthetic
cover that you see is going to be comparable to
purchasing soil. That's like what we're currently doing.
So, we can not only save space, we're either going to be
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
37
at the equal or maybe even less than what our cost of
soil cover is. It does bring up the question as to
whether or not we should continue our landfill mining
operation, because the biggest benefit of our landfill
mining operation is to produce cover.
Part of what we've looked at in terms of
recognizing, we're going to be evaluating the private
sector in terms of cost proposals. Staff has done some
analysis and if you will, some of the strategic planning,
what I call kind of Plan B, in a sense that if we don't
go with some privatization offer, we still laid out here
a plan that we think can give the county at least ten
years of capacity at the existing Naples landfill. Part
of that will be the use of the synthetic cover.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You said the biggest part of
landfill mining is to produce cover. I always thought it
was to use for additional capacity.
MR. LORENZ: It does give us additional capacity
but the one question that we have is whether we can go
ahead and line over the existing cells one and two, that
actually closes those cells out. Our indication from the
state is that we can do that. If we can do that, and we
don't need to produce cover, we can then take the site,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
38
regrade it, what we currently have which was those cells
one and two, do some, some additional engineering that
would have to be done in terms of stability, that's not
pushing the envelope out and that's the type of plan that
we could develop on for cells one and two to give us that
additional capacity. And we can still mine over the
existing cells.
So, that in fact, if you step down to number six,
in the year FY '97, showing beginning constrution of
Naples Landfill cells one and two, that would be part of
the strategy. If don't go with a private firm that Staff
would recommend that we begin to do that construction at
that point in time.
Item number two, is I guess management system at
the Naples Landfill. It is incorporated in the RFPs that
we'll be having going out on the'streets or
privatization. Again, if that doesn't happen, our staff
is recommending, and they even have it as part of the
budget for this year, to put soil and gas management
system in the Naples Landfill.
The other items that pretty much are listed on page
two are more operational in nature. Items that are part
of the existing capital improvement program that the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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39
board has already seen.
On page three, the key item there is item number 9,
which is looking at a new site. We are already working
on some of the site selection parameters. What I've
shown throughout the five year planning horizon is to
continue to look for a new site'in Collier County and F¥
'97 would be about the time frame where you would want to
select a new site.
Now, I have scheduled this, if you will, as an
early finish in a sense that we wouldn't need to have a
new site selected if we're looking at a ten year
additional land fill capacity at the Naples Landfill for
maybe about two or three more years. I've chosen to show
it as an early finish so that we can identify new
landfill site as early as possible so that to get it into
the future land use plan, it actually should be part of
the growth management plan development that we're going
to be looking at into FY '96, you can always decide --
all that staff would recommend is to try to identify that
site as soon as possible.
as FY '97.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
That's why we're showing that
Doesn't staff already have
direction to begin identifying?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
4O
MR. LORENZ: Yes, and that's what we're doing. The
question will come to the board in FY '95 and '96 to
actually select a new site and to spend monies to do some
cost analysis for, to do preliminary engineering work, to
be able to identify two or three sites so that you can
select from because there's some sites that may be have
different trade offs. So, that's why we're showing in
here anticipation of having to do that type of analysis.
That's consistent with what the board said several months
ago.
The other item, number ten, is the board's
consideration of'volume reduction. Basically, if you go
to some type of composting facility, something that's
going to give you 16 to 17 percent volume reduction
you'll essentially triple the life time of your landfill.
That's an item that has a separate RFP, that will be
coming back to the board. I've shown that coming back to
the board basically at the end of November of this year,
'94.
One of the cautions I want to bring up to the
board, although the composting technologies have
improved, the composting still in Florida history is,
still has that problem with overflow and one of the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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[1
41
things that we're looking is the composting facilities in
about two years, we'll have about a year of experience in
Florida and it would be worth while to analyze their
history in the next couple of years.
so, what I've shown here is the strategic plan is
in FY '96 is a specific commitment that we look for of
cost proposals at the end of the year for your
consideration.
Item number eleven basically is a privatization
issue, is if you continue with the Naples Landfill, who
you want to do that work, staff or a private firm, we'll
have those cost proposals brought to the board October
1st. That will you give you a better sense of exactly
what the proposals are in terms of time at the Naples
Landfill and also what the cost will be.
Item number twelve, if the board so directs staff
to negotiate a contract for privatization, then we'll be
back some time in March of '95 with the contract. It's
not going to be an easy contract to negotiate. The cost
proposals that we bring out should give us a real good
feel on actual cost to give some sense of what the
proposed terms and conditions will be.
There are a lot of complexities involved in that.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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42
We've backed off showing the at least six months there in
terms of hammering out a contract to come back to the
board.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Seems to me that an important
consideration here today is that as far as the landfill
operation goes, we're in the process of gathering all
this information and we really need to have that
information so we can set out a strategic plan because
there's too many questions that this information will
answer. We don't know the answer to them at the moment.
It seems to me that this is one that needs to be on
hold for a while until we get some of these answers back.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I'm not sure I agree. Part of
the plan, that's the plan is we're going to address the
issues relating to solid waste. There's certain
decisions that will have to be made. This is an
implementation to an overall goal as it relates to
addressing the solid waste issue within Collier County.
I mean, I'm not sure, Commission Norris, you should
put it on hold, I think what Bill was saying is that
these are, that the measurables as we move through, are
planned. They're critical decisions that are going to
have to be made during the course. This is the next five
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
43
years these decisions are going to have to be made.
MR. LORENZ: What I tried to reflect within the
next five years was if you didn't do anything, if you
didn't get a private firm involved in it, will at least
put us in a position that we have properly addressed our
solid waste needs.
However, by the end of this calendar year, you will
have specific cost information to make a decision as to
whether to go in that direction, what I call Plan B, or
take a specific direction of which we can't forcast it
now in terms of who's going to do what and by when. So,
you should have the basis for that information by the end
of this calendar year.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What would happen if the
decision was made by the board to privatize the landfill?
What would happen if the decision was made in 1997 by the
selection of a new landfill site.
away?
MR. LORENZ:
that decision.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
Does that Just go
No, I think you still have to make
Right. I guess from the
dialogue that you used, you said you ought to Just put it
on hold. I didn't know what that meant, are we going to
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
44
address it or how we incorporate that into our strategic
plan.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I guess another way of
expressing it would be if that we set goals today,
they're going to have to be a lot broader goals and not
as specific as we would like because we have too many
unanswered questions.
If you want a broad goal, solid waste problem
solved in five years, we can make that goal today but
that's pretty broad.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Do we have the plan, the
discussion that we had last time together, how did we
address solid waste; what was our four line statement
about solid waste?
MS. EDWARDS:
I didn't bring that with me.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I didn't bring it either.
MR. LORENZ: We had, this was one document here, a
recapitulation of commissioner's goals, maintain low cost
to consumer, a safe, effective environmental secure
method of disposal, and develop and implement long range
solutions for collection of disposal.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's the vote.
MR. LORENZ: Yes.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
45
MR. HARGETT: I think the way that you get there is
just a number of ways. It depends upon your ultimate
policy decision, long range disposal goals will vary
between whether you do it in the county or out of the
county, where you do it, depending on whether you
continue to operate the existing landfill or find a new
one, so forth, through the various things they're talking
about.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I guess where I'm getting a
little confused in the process, because as far as the
strategic plans, it was kind of an overall goal, and then
we've got a certain objective to at least identify and
I'm kind of looking at that overall goal. I think
Commissioner Norris was saying that's a very broad goal
that we have. What you said, Bill, as part of the
process, is that there are a number of objectives in
order to achieve that goal but depending upon if we
decide to privatize, we go in one direction, if we decide
to keep it in-house, we go in another one.
I'm trying to visualize what the written document
would look like.
MR. LORENZ: As I said, I tried to set it up so
that if you don't do privatzation, and that goes by the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
46
wayside for whatever reason, if you take that out, you
still have a five year plan that's going to provide you
adequate solid waste disposal in that five year window.
On the other hand, you make a decision during that
privatization discussion, certain things could drop out
or get pushed out in time. Obviously, that's the fine
tuning of a strategic plan that we work for.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I agree with Commissioner
Norris, I don't think there's a lot else that we can do
with this. I would like to suggest that we take numbers
ll and 12, move those up as numbers 1 and 2, so I think
the commission made, at least preliminary decision, to
privatize this landfill, put that up in the beginning, if
we are not not able to privatize the landfill, the other
plan that you have out here really becomes our plan.
Probably, the only thing that would keep us from
privatizing the landfill would be the potential cost to
the user. I suspect, from what we've heard, we're going
to be able to privatize this, keep the rates fairly close
to what they are, plus eliminate some of the concerns in
terms of liability, clean up, I think that puts emphasis
on privatization by moving it to number one.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I agree.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
already.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
So, do we want sewer?
I think we've done sewer
Bill. Bill, as part that
47
discussion, is there something more that you need from
us?
MR. LORENZ: No, I think that would, that's clear.
I mean it's a step down through the plan.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is a part of that discussion,
Commissioner Saunders, in terms.of reordering if that
becomes important we might, in any case, we still need to
continue the process for a new site selection.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think all that activity
continues, that may change, our plan would change once
We'll continue with those efforts.
with we privatize.
MR. LORENZ:
We did sewer as part of the
On page four, we begin the
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
discussion.
MR. ARCHIBALD:
discussion on roadways. I'll be. relatively brief. The
CIE has pretty well dictated an inventory update. Those
documents from a concurrency standpoint drive our road
program and the program that was recently approved really
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
48
addressed 32 major projects that were identified and as
you've seen, we've tried to outline some of those
projects which we would reconstruct, recognizing you're
looking at a time frame from five to ten years to take a
project from conception to completion of construction.
So, we've listed them there to give you some idea
of the number of construction projects that begin by
concurrency.
On item two, we've got a listing of design
projects, they're relatively new and ongoing so that
we'll have some idea of the dynamics of the growth of the
county, recognizing that as the county grows in different
directions the growth program has to respond.
A good example is North Naples growth. The growth
right now that is undergoing in that area and the
projections continue to dictates the needs for the four
lane of Immokalee Road and the future expansion of
Airport Road, north of Pine Ridge, the extension of
Vanderbilt Beach Road between 41 and 31 and then the
improvements of Goodlette-Frank.
Many of those will be in some sort of planning,
design or construction and this outline is simply a
summary for reinforcement of what already is in our AUIR.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
49
The funding issue is probably the most important one
here, that's why under item three, we've got a listing of
funds in our current approved CIE element.
As the board will recall, what we're doing here is
reallocating gasoline tax from the road operations to
road improvements. So, we're going to be showing you in
your current budget years changes in revenues. That's
probably one of the issues from a policy standpoint that
the board has already addressed in approving CIE as it's
currently in place, and recognizing it's not only will
the gas tax be reallocated but any shortfall in a given
year may also be subsidized by new revenues or the
reallocation of sales tax. You will see that in current
budget process.
I have thrown in a number of other items that we
typically don't see in the CIE. Road operations is one.
It's a fairly large ticket item. I've thrown that in
there primarily from a strategic standpoint of addressing
the change in road systems, not only in the number of
miles that's being added to the system but we're adding
urban miles in lieu of rural miles. Urban miles reqires
different levels of maintanence~operations. You'll be
seeing that in your budget process also.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
5O
We also have to recognize that as North Naples
grows, we also have quite a bit of growth growing in
Golden Gate Estates from single family residential units
that's where the majority of the growth is occurring.
That road system out there addresses over 200 miles of
lime rock roads. It's a program that has to continue to
be fortified from a revenue standpoint and the way that
we plan on doing that is to continue the GAC trust to
supplement that with the municipal services taxing
district, unit five. That's been done in the past and
done to a greater degree in the future as those needs
occur.
Item six, I included landscaping. We prepared an
agenda item to give the board some idea of what the
different policies may be if the board may want to
consider addressing and adopting in the future.
That agenda item, I held pending completion of a
study done being done by Naples Scape (Phonetic). When
Naples Scape completes their study, I'd like to see both
the staff policy issue come before the board and also
provide at the same time Naples Scapes, Collier and
Naples Scape program so that there will be two different
views of how we may not only address landscaping but also
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how we may fund it in the future.
Again that funding will be either county-wide or
district wide. That, again, can carry a large price tag
as we look at both the landscape improvements and
landscape maintenance. We need to recognize that that
policy overtime does bring value to the community but
will be a policy item that will carry a large cost in
both those aspects.
Under item seven, page six, I've got a number of
MSTD's growing. Streetlighting is over a million dollars
on an annual basis. We'll be addressing and
consolidation that in the current budget year. That will
be a policy issue to some degree.
There's some items that I left out, they include
state roads. Right now, the state has gone to a degree
of funding our concurrency requirements and as a general
rule we don't have a concurrency problem on state roads
if the state can follow through with implementation of
programs that have been identified in the TIP, and it's
approved by MPO, transportation improvement program.
If that continues to be funded as it currently is,
the majority of state road improvements will be forfilled
on time or at least within the concurrency window
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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available to us.
Two other issues I didn't include involved mass
transit, those studies are under way. Those will be
future policy issues, the same thing holds for airports
and finally, the one issue, Gordon River Bridge.
The second Gordon River Bridge crossing is an
example of a project that may not be concurrency driven
in our current five year program but it's a project that
the board may want to visit from the idea of taking a
look at some of the early planning functions and make
sure that that roadway, as in the future, will be
available to the county for the transportation system.
I think that pretty well summarizes what we've got
outlined here. If you need us to include or discuss some
of those items including mass transit, airport or state
road system we can.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
second Gordon River Bridge.
I'm a little confused on
I don't want to misinterpret
what you're saying, it's almost sounds as though if the
board decides to consider this to be looked at, then we
have an opportunity, even though it's not concurrency
driven, I think the MPO has already voted. It's composed
of five county commissioners and two city counsel
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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members. The MPO decided to proceed with that road as
priority. I think we need to continue.
MR. ARCHIBALD: I think that the project has been
approved. The contract hasn't be issued but very close
to it. That will indicate to us more precisely if the
lightings are available to us.
The point that I was making, if we decide that
through those studies, and keep in mind we want to take
the benefit of that study in '95, those studies will
indicate to us a lot of information as to timing cost,
such things as right-of-way preservation, and those
decisions will ultimately come back to MPO or the board.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think it would be
appropriate to put that second Gordon River Crossing into
our strategic plan just preliminarily. If we find out
from the study that it's not feasible, we made the
decision, follow the decision and then we move forward
with that road as expeditiously as possible. I would
suggest to the county commission that we do that.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
statement, I believe.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
I think that's an accurate
I concur.
The issue of mass transit,
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that's a different story altogether. That's going to be
reviewed by the Metropolitan Planning Organizations, I
suspect within the next month or two. It's been delayed
several times.
I think most of the plan is prepared for it.
don't know if it would be appropriate to put that in the
planning document now until a decision has been made to
move forward. We're trying to breathe some light into
that issue, I would think it would not be appropriate to
put that into the document at this point until after the
MPO has made some decision on it.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Could I raise something else?
Mr. Archibald, you mentioned about the growth occurring
in North Naples, North Collier Planning Community, can we
stop and focus for a moment, east and south county area,
Sable Bay is still out there. Did Sable Bay ever get
started? Have we anticipated what impact that may have
on such roads as Thomasson?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes, we have. Part of Thomasson
Drive and improvements it from two lane to four lane but
includes realignment of that. We've also followed
through with U.S. 41 division to see that design element
so that when we see the six laning in U.S. 41, it will
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accommodate and allow for the realignment of Thomasson
drive.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I don't care very much of
discussion about that. You know, how that's going to
impact, you're talking about four laning the Rattlesnake
Hammock. Now, Thomasson to Bayshore, seems to be an
alternate to U.S. 41 and I guess it's not in our five
year plan because what you just said was that in the DRI,
that they have a commitment to four lane it. I assume
you're talking about Collier Enterprises have committed
to four laning it?
MR. ARCHIBALD: They have a commitment to
participate in the four lanig which would involve right
the of way and realignment of the roadway. I think the
issue is one that comes in the AUIR every year, that's an
issue of what's the level of service on Thomasson drive
and does it in fact, is it growing in such a way that
warrant some planning and design work now in a five year
plan. And, as long as Sable Bay continues to be delayed
then your staff is saying we don't have a concurrency
problem on Thomasson drive but obviously we see something
occurring out there that triggers the need for capacity
improvements then that would be the appropriate time to
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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include that link within our CIE,
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: As a part of our strategic
plan which is separate from the AUIR and some of the
others, it seems to me that within the next five year
planning horizon we ought to be thinking about what's
happening in that area. If we're talking about a second
bridge over Gordon River, and we're talking about U.S. 4!
and that are going to six laning, the state is going to
six lane U.S. 41 from the Four Corners, right, all the
way up to Airport Road.
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So, before I get to Airport
Road, if I could hang a right, go to Bayshore, go down
Thomasson, I could go right out to 951. It seems to me
there's a part of the planning that, somehow -- it seems
to me that somehow we ought to be thinking about it in
our plan other than just the AUIR. That's just my
thought.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'm not sure we should
be planning on hypotheticals though, if we don't know
what's going on in Sable Bay or what the plan is or
anything else.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I understand. All I'm
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57
suggesting is that even as a part of that, though, and I
realize it is hypothetical, but there are certain things
that are happening in that area of our community. The
four laning of Rattlesnake Hammock, and people aren't
going to be able to demostrate and that's going to --
you're talking about realigning the intersection there,
when does that occur?
MR. ARCHIBALD: The realignment would have to be
driven by the Sable Bay project. Our recent meetings
with the developer with regards to the six laning, are in
fact considering going ahead and making the right-of-way
donation in advance so that the opportunity may be there
at the time that U.S. 41 is six laned to initiate a
portion of the escrow that would realign Thomasson Drive.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think it's something more
than just the what if's because the other concern that I
have, that that alignment at Thomasson and U.S. 41 and
Rattlesnake Hammock is difficult at best right now.
It seems to me that if we can get some advanced
dedication of the right-of-way, at least we can, as a
part of the design at Rattlesnake Hammock. Like we did
at 111th or Vanderbilt Beach Road, you design the other
side and I think it's at the intersection now. I think
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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in the next five years, it's an important issue that's
going to have to be addressed and should be a part of the
process. Maybe it falls under the items tht you didn't
discuss but at least we discussed it now.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: One other comment on the --
I think what you put here is excellent. The numbers are
a little confusing. You have in some areas expressed in
thousands of dollars, number three, CIE funding. It
doesn't say that's in thousands.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Maybe we're going to get away
with these figures.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: when you look at it, it
looks like it's awful cheap. Maybe we can.
COMMISSONER NORRIS: So, what is our goal?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: To keep ahead of the game.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I think you hit it right on
the head. I think our goal should be to continue to
update that five year plan annually with the goal of
meeting our level of service needs on a pay scale basis.
Is that our goal, do you agree with that?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Yeah, that sounds good.
MR. DRURY: Can I add something to this category
here? As to roadways, I'm wondering if the appropriate
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category might be transportation and in transportation
we're talking about roads, rural, we talked about
airports, international airports, emergency service
airports, reliever airports, roads and bridges, things of
that nature. I'm wondering if the appropriate category
of this should be transportation and that you address all
transportation issues.
From my perspective, and you know I'm associated
with the airports, 30 percent of the people that visit
this community come from your international airports,
your next county. I think it's something that needs to
be addressed, what they do up there affects your visitors
and residents here.
From the reliever airport system, I think it's an
important part of the transportation system. It may be
better in economic development but I think it's a
transportation issue especially when you consider that
more people enter and exit this state by air
transportation than by all other modes of transportation.
Aviation is a real important element of your
economic base and transportation base. I'd just throw
that out for your discussion. If it's appropriate.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: We've just made a fairly
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6O
big commitment this past week, and we made a big
commitment over the past year so as to not include
aviation anywhere in our strategic planning. I think
it's probably a mistake.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So, we would have
transportation and one segment of that would be roadways,
one segment would be airports and whatever else. Is that
your suggestion?
MR. DRURY: Yeah, the other thing I suggest is if
you're going to be silent on issues of mass transit or
other issues, from my perspective, when we hand these
planning efforts out to large businesses that aren't from
this area or this state or this country, they want to see
what's going on down here from an infrastructure and
planning standpoint, this is a document that would be
very helpful in letting them understand where they
invest.
Even if you're not going to invest in mass transit
it's probably my opinion that it would be a good idea to
at least address the issue in the plan, that you have
looked at it, and these are some of the things you are or
aren't going to do. If it's completely absent in the
plan, then people looking at this community will look at
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
it and say they don't have any outlook, especially when
you're talking about Europe, a lot of European countries
are looking at the United States investment but they rely
on mass transit and that's important to them, whether
it's important to you or not here, it seems to me we
ought to be making suggestions but not just being silent
on it.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I agree with Mr. Drury in
terms of the Collier transportation and adding airports.
If the commission, once they had a statement concerning
mass transit I can certainly support that. We're not
doing that yet but if we simply want to say that the
commission has at least tentatively gone the other
direction, if we want to put that in the plan, I would
support that.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Considering that its
pending right now, we could put in that, yes, last
November or whatever it it was, we voted not to move
forward on mass transit, but considering the items that
are going to be coming back to the MPO. It's pending so
now is not the appropriate time to put it in because we
don't know.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think it's an excellent
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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suggestion. But just help me out, your comment that 30
percent of the people that here in our community land at
the International Airport in Fort Myers. What would you
envision as part of that strategic plan that that's a
fact? How do we incorporate that fact and what does that
mean?
MR. DRURY: I think you need to look at it and see
what role you're going to play in some of the decision
that are made up there. I also think you need to look at
it at the Naples Airport and your reliever ports. I
think in your planning process which is what this is kind
of saying what you're going to be looking at, I think you
need to look at at those.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: That's fine, but again are you
saying well maybe we should then, the focus should be
that Collier County should have representation on, that's
the goal, Collier County should have representation on
the port authority, or whatever it's called in Lee
County. That's the goal. We want to have representation
there, 30 percent of the people that are coming into
Collier County we should have to say something about it.
MR. DRURY: That's a policy issue that I think this
board would need to make a decision on. My point is that
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if you're talking about -- I didn't see transportation as
a whole in here, I thought it should be broken up into
four modes. I think that we need to look at the entire
transportation system.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I hear that. So, Commissioner
Norris, in different context said we should be
interfacing with the private utilities, public utilities,
and we should be working together. Are you suggesting
that, obviously, lots of these things are policy
decisions but should we, as a result of your suggestion,
should we be talking about that under transportation that
Collier County should be working with Lee County or the
Lee County Port Authority as it relates to international
airport, is that a part of our goal?
MR. DRURY: I would think it would be very
important that Collier County be involved in the process.
How it's involved in the process, is an outcome of the
planning process. Definitely, if 30 percent of your
tourism industry or business industry is dependent upon
that service, that's a pretty big portion. I think that
this county should be involved in some way in how that's
being he brought up.
For instance, Lee County goes over to Europe, does
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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marketing and promoting for it's international service.
I think that may be Collier County, that would be a
vehicle, that would be, maybe an outcome of the whole
process. I'm just suggesting that this county should be
involved in air, the transportation, air transportation
services. Naples Airport, is an air carrier serving
airport. That's probably involved in that. Then you've
got your reliever airport that's not involvd in air
carrier. It will be a lot more important today, and in
the near future as far as diversifying our time.
MR. MARTIN: Let me make a point of information,
here, the reason roadways was used that's part of the
legal description of their responsibility and therefore
it has to be addressed in terms of what their
responsibilities are; not the meaning, the other forms of
transportation, I'm not sure where they would go, it
would be for the commissioners if they want to include
that to put it under an appropriate place.
Part of it would be in economic development.
MR. DRURY: It may be that air transportation has
to be economic development, if that's the way we review
air transportation.
MR. MARTIN: Gentlemen, it's 10:35, now, it would
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
65
be time have our 10, 12 minute break, relax a little bit
and come back.
(A recess was had and proceedings continued as
follows:)
MR. MARTIN: Well, I have to assume that we've
finished our discussion of roadways and we're going to
move on to section two, which was safety and I think
Commissioner Norris wants to speak.
Also, for those of you who asked, we set forth the
notes from our previous meetings that are here in case
you want to review what was written down at our last
meetings, relative to selecting these topics. .
MR. IJAMS: The map that I've got up here will take
a little explaining; OC is Ochoppy, EC, that's Everglades
City. Let me add, this is Plantation and over here is
Chokoloskee, Port of the Isles and the Isle of Capri.
The whole theory behind what you've got in front of
you is to, I think eventually close down this station.
It's a very rural fire department. It's been that way
for years. It needs to, when I say improve, we can
improve our service. I find nothing wrong with the
people or the operation but this will take us into fire
prevention activities and such.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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Here is the bulk of the people, right around
Everglades City, in Everglades City and around Everglades
City that these people are responsible for. We have a
station here. There's nothing here at the present time,
this is a developing area. If any of you haven't been
out there recently, it's worth the time to see the
impressive development started.
Over on this side of the present Port of the Isles,
there's streets in an area that's going to be one of our
growth areas. The reason I bring Isle of Capri into this
because eventually, even though it does not say in the
plans in front of you, that to consolidate both this
department which is volunteer I'll remind you, and this
department which is paid.
Also in this next Marco Island Airport, you all
have reasonably taken a very positive action in that
regard, I see this as it is now our responsibilities or
if you want to focus it more, my responsibility, to make
sure they have adequate fire protection for that area and
over here it's the Everglades City Airport which is my
own personal opinion will probably develop faster than
the other two.
That's just a quick explanation. One other thing,
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as I think about this, as we talk about this this
morning, I purposly, this is farther from here to here,
because this is the, I can't think of the name of that
intersection, this is 41 and this 29, this is 951.
MR. CONRECODE: Carnstown?
MR. IJAMS: Yes, Carnstown. So, in relocating
here, that's what we're going to do, that's my suggestion
that we did, this is closer here than it is here, that is
is an ongoing argument that I'm having right now with all
these folks, nevertheless, the distance here becomes an
important factor when we talk about response time. I
appreciate using that.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
questions, Commissioner Norris?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE:
Are we supposed to ask
It's not required.
MR. IJAMS: %,.~s is such a logical thing, you
probably won't have any questions, but if you do.
now?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Where's the ambulance station
MR. IJAMS: In Everglades City.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is that advanced life support
system, that's what they've been asking for.
MR. IJAMS: Not yet but we're hoping it will be in
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October.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So, you envision consolidation
as not only being fire/medic but also emergency medical
services?
MR. IJAMS:
Yes, sir, we do.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What's Everglades City now?
Where's the ambulance housed now?
MR. IJAMS: It's housed in Everglades City. It's
in a carport between the roller skating rink and the fire
station.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is it part of the
consolidation that you're discussing?
MR. IJAMS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Would you move them all as the
plan to move it to the intersection of Carnstown and 417
MR. IJAMS: Actually, the advanced life support
won't be moving except a matter of a few feet. I would
put them in the Everglades Station.
To me it's important, psychologically perhaps, the
people in Everglades City see an advanced life support
vehicle as well as a couple of fire trucks.
Most of you know, certainly the staff does, we
discussed this frankly we've got more fire trucks than we
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have people. We need to get rid of some of them. That
seems to be a little emotional issue but nevertheless has
to happen.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So, the plan is to consolidate
the operations but not necessarily the facilities,
specifically --
MR. IJAMS:
facility as well as the operation.
No. I think we're consolidating the
Fire consolidation.
It has to begin some place.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
MR. IJAMS: Perhaps you're not getting the answer
to your question, Mr. Volpe. At the present time, the
only plans really is to move the chief's office from here
along with the secretary to here.
We'll do a little expansion here, something in the
$5,000.00 neighborhood, to accommodate what we think will
be the advanced life support. Personally, it's basic
life support. So, we're upgrading that.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Northwestern gateway is currently
at the Everglades?
MR. IJAMS: The ambulance?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes.
MR. IJAMS: Yes, that's it's location.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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COMMISSIONER VOLPE: At the airport, is there going
to be a fire truck at the airport?
MR. IJAMS: No. This is not very far. This
distance from here to here is maybe less than a mile, I
would say more like a half mile.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How many people at the Port of
the Isle?
MR. IJAMS: Nobody.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You said that's where the
growth is occurring. You've got 350 people in Everglades
City, how many people --
MR. IJAMS: Oh, I think my figures are, and I can't
tell you exactly on people, I believe there's 50 homes,
part of them are condominiums. I can get those figures
for you.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I'm wondering in terms of
consolidation, what's the distance from Everglades City
to Port of the Isles.
MR. IJAMS: It's closer from here to here than it
is from here to here. ·
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Really, I think of terms of
structure fires, thinking about the magnitude of homes
that are being built are whatever it is.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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MR. IJAMS: The growth, if you looked at this as
one big fire district, the growth in this situation is
west instead of east. What's happening out here, this
area's not growing in population, so we need to adjust
our personnel, as low numbers as they are, we need to
adjust in this direction to accommodate this.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Commissioner Norris, where is
the new or the old 1300 acre piece of ground which would
be west of, I guess, 951 in relation to the Marco Island
Airport. How much further to the south?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
ground?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
It's north of the airport.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
The 1300 acre piece of
The Marco Shores PRI.
You're talking about the
development part, the portion that can be developed,
nothing west of 951 can be developed is my understanding
of that original area.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is it west or is it east?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Marco Shores is east of 951 and
north of airport.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
that is that a part of the consolidation suggestion, is
I guess the only relevance of
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you could at some point in time have a significant
population in the immediate area of the Marco Island
Airport.
MR. IJAMS:
Yes, sir, I certainly agree with that.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think it's a good idea.
MR. IJAMS: That's, I guess, neither here.
Obviously, weave already started some preliminary
discussions and things of this nature with all these
folks and I guess if you don't all tell me, you know, I'm
really off track here and need to go in some other
direction, I think you'll see this proceeding in the
next, couple, three years and it may come together faster
than I first anticipated.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: It requires interlocal
agreement in Everglades City?
MR. IJAMS: I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: It requires an interlocal
agreement in Everglades City.
MR. IJAMS: No, I don't believe so, it's all the
same fire district.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: There's probably an
interlocal agreement already for us to provide services
to them, right, which this wouldn't affect.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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73
MR. IJAMS: I don't think it's an interlocal
agreement. We have a contract. It's not covered under
ordinance form. I don't think it requires anything
additional to what we already have in place in order to
move forward with this idea and push our personnel to the
west to accommodate the future, the growth that's already
occurring, plus the future growth that's undoubtedly is
going to occur.
The other one, utilizing the single emergency
vehicle responses, as I'm sure you all recall, this
service and our consolidation efforts that we had earlier
in '93, it's a sweetheart deal.
It's good for the independent district.
this?
It's good for everybody.
Do they support
No, but they're coming around.
We've met with, I used Marco Island as a positive
example. They have said down there that they want to
give this a try. All this amounts to is that on an
ambulance where we have two personnel, we'll add a third
one, there will be a firefighter, cross training and all
those things will be taken care of and we'll be
responding one emergency vehicle to an accident scene or
an emergency medical call and there will no longer be a
need for a fire truck or a rescue, whichever it is to
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
74
respond.
We'have continued to push~this and discuss this
with everyone that will talk to us and I just encourage
you all to let us go ahead and pursue this. It's
starting to come around, I believe, and I think once, if
we get one department such as Marco to give it a try, I
can't see any possibility for it not working.
Now, I can implement this idea with the Ochoppy
Fire Department, those both belong to us. If we don't
get some satisfactory movement with the independent
districts, I suspect that will come before you, I'm sure,
but I suspect I may implement it just with the Ochoppy
Fire Department and the advanced life support unit that
will be in Everglades City at that time.
To me this is an issue that once we try it, we're
going to save some day. I don't know why we haven't done
that before, but it's been difficult for us to get this,
to bring about this, working with the independent
districts.
As you can see, fiscal year '96, I bring up the
megahurts, that's moving along well. Our deadlines that
we've got out there are, have become more optomistic that
we're going to be in good shape as those approach.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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There's a little thing that we spent some time yesterday
with a consultant and have adjusted some dates and our
adjustment of dates are all in the direction of improving
our position for FCC as far as our September deadline.
As we get in '97 we're going to start talking about
manpower for the Port of the Isles and 41 and 29 are
obviously routes and then it takes us in '99 to district
one which is the contractural area that basically lies
just east of 951, the East Naples Fire Department or the
Golden Gate Fire Department contract with us, and this I
have responded to this, but during the budget hearings
that we had with you folks, I've gone back and discussed
this with them and we have a contract with these folks
and what they're providing for us, we're getting a bank
for a buck. We really are. There's 140 some responses
in that area.
It's our responsibility to contract with these
people to do it. I think in time, perhaps in 98, 99,
we'll be able to bring about some kind of a consolidation
there.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What part of that district
Does district
includes the south blocks, district one.
one include the south blocks?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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MR. IJAMS: Yes, it does. I'll tell you, I get the
south block and the -- I believe it does, Mr. Volpe.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes, it does. Vince is
always complaining about having to go out there and cover
these fires, no access, and that sort of thing.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How about Belle Meade, that's
all a part of district one, isn't it?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I don't know if district one
extends down to that lower part of Belle Meade. I don't
know.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Has the state contributed any
part to what it is that are, the service that's being
provided in that area?
MR. IJAMS: The division of forestry, you may not
have it yet, but we discussed that with the division of
forestry. We're, through state law, obligated to pay
three cents an acre, and there's 250 some thousand acres,
that we're paying for and that comes to about 20 some
thousand dollars. That goes to the division of forestry
to enhance the fire protection of Collier County. Each
county has that.
Those figures will be coming down probably the next
year because we're going to re'evaluate the amount of
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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acreage that we're presently responsible for, or paying
three cents an acre for. If that goes to answer your
question..
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
for the division of forestry to provide fire protection
in the same area?
MR. IJAMS:
The county's paying the state
Yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: How'much are we spending under
contract in Golden Gate and East Naples?
MR. IJAMS: It's 150, 40 total, that's equally
divided three ways between Ochoppy, Golden Gate and East
Naples.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So, you had 134 calls?
MR. IJAMS: No, I'm sorry, that was 130 or 40
thousand dollars that we pay and is split up.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: No, just part of the district
one plan again, you said we're getting the bank for a
buck what we're paying to these three independent fire
control and rescue districts is well worth what we're
At the present time.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: We're paying $134,000.007
MR. IJAMS: In total, yes.
paying.
MR. IJAMS:
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
in that area.
MR. IJAMS:
In total. How many calls were
I'm sorry, 140 something.
MR. HARGETT: One of the points, I think he's
trying to make, for example, yesterday, there was a fire
along 75, on the state right-of-way, natural forest about
as far as east as you can go in Lee County and Ochoppy
responded.
In fact, they were the only ones on the scene. If
we're paying, what we're paying for is having them to
respond brush fires.
MR. IJAMS: You say the only ones on the scene or
they were the only ones you could see.
MR. HARGETT: They were the only ones on the scene
at the fire.
MR. IJAMS: I can't explain that but Big Cypress
also has a, were we far enough east of 29, I'm not
familiar with the location'you're talking about.
MR. HARGETT: Way out there is all I know.
MR. IJAMS: Way out there. Big Cypress also has a
government subsidized fire department and the division of
forestry, to my knowledge, always responds to, they have
the bull dozers and things of that nature.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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MS. EDWARDS: Any other discussion on EMS related?
Any questions?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: When do we have to bring on
the next ambulance, we've already got them all, we've got
nine of them.
MR. IJAMS: We're in the process of bringing one on
which is funded for this fiscal year, six months of this
fiscal year. We don't have it on yet because the
location, locating it is a problem right now but it looks
like the details are worked out and we'll be stationing
it on Immokalee Road, east of 1-75, North Naples on that
lot.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: For a dollar a year?
MR. IJAMS: Y'all did good.
MS. EDWARDS: The next one is building codes.
We
haven't supplied anything here.
MR. CLARK: I could give a little caption.
Generally speaking, our building codes are updated
periodically to reflect the amendments, statutory
amendments. The current ones, the more recent ones, were
the hurricane related with ones. Hurricane Andrew, after
reviewing that, they strengthened some the structural
requirements in the building codes. Those have been
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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incorporated. There is and will continue to be an
updating requirement of all of our building codes. We're
currently on 91 on one of our codes.
In addition to that, we have in draft form now,
we're workshopping it, it's called an amendments to
administrative code in which responding to the county
manager's concerns and the board's concerns we have
prepared a draft version of the amendment which would
allow for increased requirement for design professionals
to design plans for certain houses of certain design
complexities. are.
Actually 15, 20 years ago, most of our houses down
here were 800, 1200, 1500 square feet, without a lot of
design complexities. Now, we're getting in Grey Oaks and
some other subdivisions, 11, 12,000, 15,000 square foot
homes with extremely complex design criteria in which you
may have a 30, 40 foot span, some of the roofs go up to
30, 40 feet high.
When you have a span of 30 or 40 feet in a single
room, design complexities like that become very critical.
We're reflecting that and adressing those concerns. It
almost gets to the point in some of these design criteria
without, and I'll say it with humor, it's almost factual,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
they almost need a pair of field glasses to look 30, 40,
feet in the air to see if all the hurricane clips and all
the required safety issues are addressed.
What we're proposing and I might add with
overwhelming support from the industry, is that design
those professionals be required to design houses that
have certain design complexities, not only required to
design them but those same design professionals be
required to inspect those house to ensure that they're
built, that they're built in accordance to the plan.
I might add that some of the design professionals
are extremely concerned, as well as some of the
contractors, who are currently having the design
professionals inspect those houses because of the
liability of a 11, 12 or even 6 to 8 thousand square foot
house with that design criteria, the possibility of
failure when you have that much exposure to the wind, in
which we do have a considerable amount even on the edge
of a hurricane, the liability and the safety concerns are
considerable.
So, to that end, many of the bigger contractors or
contractors of bigger homes, are now employing design
professionals to inspect the house. What we're doing is
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
82
by ordinance requiring design professionals to inspect
the houses of that design complexities --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: What's the break point?
MR. CLARK: We're looking at five thousand square
feet but that's square a footage areas. There's also a
other critical areas, certain up-lift capabilities and
the loading of certain critical members of the house, in
other words, if you look at the plan, those have to be
pointed out and if it meets that the design professionals
would be required to do that.
Obviously, that would increase the cost of the
house by a very small percentage point, I might add but
when it gets to 5, 6, 8, 10, 15,000 square foot house,
the safety concerns are extremely critical.
In addition to that area that we're trying to
address, we're also proposing at that some privatization
opportunities be available. The state now requires that
our inspectors be certified by the state, that they meet
certain experience criteria, that they have certain
educational and training criteria and there are
professional designers in the fields who also can meet
and get those licenses from the state.
So, in order to facilitate the option, the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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availability of privatization, .we're also incorporating
in that proposal, that inspections may be conducted,
they'll be working on contract basis for the county. So
they're responsible for us, not to the builder. We could
utilize the services of design or inspection
professionals so that the possible fluxuation of spike
periods in building, we could utilize the services. It's
probably better than hiring two or three inspectors and
laying them off or not having the capabilits of meeting
the inspection scheduals that are now about 95 percent
current within 24 hours.
That's kind of an update on where we're at with
building codes.
MR. FLAGLER: Mr. Clark, you mentioned that the
design professionals would become also inspectors;
licensed inspectors?
MR. CLARK: There's two different areas, the design
professionals would be required, in other words, there's
two different areas, one is the design professional such
as an engineer would be required, the builder would be
required to obtain his services to design that house.
The builder would also be required to obtain the services
of an engineer to inspect the house to ensure, in
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
84
addition to what inspections they do. The second point
was the design and inspection professionals, which could
be design professionals as well, we could utilize the
services of those, we would have the availability of
utilizing those to supplement our inspectors should the
need arise. It's two part.
MR. FLAGLER: Can you envision down the road,
considerable savings by having all of them required to
become licensed as inspectors themselves and make them
responsible for their own work and held them responsible
to it and if they didn't, provide the proper work.
MR. CLARK: There is that concern. There are some
economic factors involved. For instance, if you take a
low income housing, or lower income housing, a say a 50
or $60,000.00 house and add a design professional
requirement, we may get to that point eventually but at
this point we're looking at the higher end or the more
design complex areas of houses, to see how it works out
and obviously, too, we could expand that if the
commission so desired at a later date.
MR. FLAGLER: I'd like to see the design
professionals and perhaps in the long run, the inspectors
to be accountable.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
85
MR. CLARK: They are required to be accountable now
as well as the builders. At this juncture, until we sort
through this and until we have some experience with that,
there's always a concern that person, in other words, who
is my employer and my loan is to my employer so we're not
suggestion that it would happen we're suggesting that it
could happen.
So, we want to phase into this and say, if I had an
employee and he's accountable to me as a private
individual, in other words, we're not replacing our
inspectors now with private people, they're supplementing
it to have a higher degree of inspection.
So, could we do it down the road, yes, but a
private employee to a private employer, could it become
suspect, yes. At this point, we're not suggestion that
all inspectors be elimimated, we're say we want a higher
level of scrutiny in houses who have a higher level of
complexities but your point is well taken and it i~
something we'll be looking at, the expansion of that.
MS. EDWARDS:
building codes?
MR. BRIGHAM:
act, you brought that up, Mr. V01pe.
Anymore questions or comments on
How about the safe neighborhood's
Does that fit under
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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this category?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I don't think it does, I think
this is more technical in terms of the building code but
the safe neighborhoods in terms of security for
environmental design really doesn't fit with the number
of straps, as I understand it.
MR. CLARK: But the concepts certainly might be,
the conceptual idea certainly might be, if not endorsed
or at least reviewed by that department and perhaps
discussed with some builders. I'm saying there may be
room for discussion of that.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think that that's occurring
or it has occurred.
MR. CLARK: Yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: To that extent it has
someplace but not in the context of which I think you're
discussing in terms of design. I think in terms of
design professionals and actually signing off on plans
and specifications that they have done.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is that it, Paul?
MR. BRIGHAM: It seems it should required
inspections in that area.
MR. CLARK: We may, but today there is not a
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
87
mandate. There may be a mandate and then it would be
required inspections. I think we're in phase one of how
can it; is it feasible; and then at some point it may get
to the point where it would be a required inspection. If
it's required, certainly it's required to be inspected.
At this point it's not required so we don't have a
required inspection.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Does that come up in the
context with your work with the sheriff, doesn't it?
MR. BRIGHAM: I think the discussion has gone
around in circles here. I believe there's programs set
up for the Fall, it needs to be flushed out more.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: We're going to have a
symposium in september on the Safe Neighborhood's Act.
MR. MARTIN: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Who would it
collectively be in that case.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: The county, the city and the
sheriff. In terms of the overall planning for it, I've
been working the representatives from the sheriff'$
office, city police, cry manager and a designee from
contractor's office to try to put it together and some
other interesting groups.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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SO, I think the thought is that some time this Fall
and it'll tie into the kinds of things that Paul and Dick
are talking about, but overall, I hope to be able to
bring something back to the board a little bit more
definitive later in the summer, by that I mean probably
in July, a program.
MR. MARTIN: Can we move on to the court system at
this time? Are there any remarks, questions, or
discussions about what has been'put under for '95, as it
relates to the court system?
MR. BRIGHAM: I just wanted to, as a generally as
possible state our personal goals. That the first four
goals, these basics, changing alternatives to pretrial,
post trial, that our jail is quickly filling to
compacity. The house arrest program is currently run by
a private vendor and needs to be expanded so a year from
now we would like to take that over.
The work release restitution center as its backbone
the concept that while these criminals need to be
detained, we constantly take away their ability to
perform court orders or something that's less than jail.
The third item is pretrial intervention that the state
attorney's office is going to bring on line in October.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
89
This is for first time offenders that can work certain
activities.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Paul, we talked time to
time about with jail expansion, is there a proposed date
for that?
MR. BRIGHAM: It has not been put out and hardened.
This year we're going to be talk about design, presumedly
in the next fiscal year.
projects last year,
MR. CONRECODE:
We'd also reviewed capital
Commissioner, something that might
be worth while in pointing out the board is adopting a
policy, the place funding for the jail project at some
point for their support. We haven't had any clear
direction as to when we want to put that to the board,
I'm sorry, put that to the voters. That will have an
impact on their budget.
MR. BRIGHAM: Yes, development of the atrium of the
courthouse.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: So that we could continue on
rainy days.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: As follow-up to Commission
Constantine's question, I thought the sheriff was before
the board in connection with the boot camp. He indicated
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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9O
there may be a need additional 140 beds. Currently we're
not at that capacity. We're under contract with the
federal government because our facilties being under
utilized.
MR. BRIGHAM: In the last six months, I've been
told that the jail no longer excepts federal prisoners.
We know long he participate in that program.
MR. CONRECODE: Commissioner there's a couple of
issues, one the corrections committee of which the
chairman is a member are addressing the jail issue.
There's a couple other issues that affect our jail
specifically, one we had proposed for the last two years
that with we start some preliminary design work. There
are a number of items that drive our population. We may
have empty beds in certain areas of the jail because at
the current times there a lot of women detainees, there
are a lot of men. We may have an increase in juveniles,
decrease in Juveniles. We're at capacity in the jail.
We need to better allocate those resources if the
female operation closes up. We may be able to expand
portions of the jail.
issues.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
There's really a the lot of
Then the issue for me becomes,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
91
it's not a part of the strategic plan. If it is that big
of an issue then we should not only be talking about the
house arrest programs but issues releasing pressure on
the jail, but we've got to be talking about that is a
part of the 5, 10 year plan.
to thevoters, they'll know.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE:
If we're going to take it
The next logical
question, why are we doing the design work before take it
to the vote?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I just heard that in the last
few months. That money should 'happen when you bring
some, work release program, you're talking about a
halfway house, how does the boot camp fit into that,
where is the stockade, Immokalee Stockade, fit into all
this?
MR. BRIGHAM: That's why the correction planning
commission is made on a monthly basis. All of these
components are part of the criminal justice deal and they
all need to be addressed.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Should we, in talking about
the court system, really, the court system and the
correctional system may be different like roadways and
transportation.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
92
plan.
MR. BRIGHAM:
It's a separate part of our strategic
MS. EDWARDS:
MR. BRIGHAM:
all in our discussions.
basis does.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
on correctional committee?
MR. BRIGHAM:
MR. MARTIN:
An area under safety.
The sheriff doesn't participate at
His representatives on a monthly
The chair is representing us
Public safety committee.
Commissioner we had nothing under
safety, part A., crime, on this planning documenting and
maybe some of this would be more appropriate would be
added to that, we failed to discuss that. We jumped
right into our discussion because there wasn't anything
under crime.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
that I wanted to get back.
I've got a list of things
Discussion of drill cramp,
juvenile justice. The commission says the priority is to
deal with juvenile problem. I think that should be
listed under crime.
neighborhoods act.
September on that.
Commissioner Volpe raise safe
There's going to be a workshop in
That should be listed under crime.
The issue of jail construction potential future
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
93
construction. I think that's part of crime prevention in
order to deter crime. We have to have adequate
facilities so we don't have to release one offender to
house arrest and another offender. Maybe it doesn't fit
under there but I think the question of jail expansion as
driven by the state and federal courts and the guidelines
we to live on.
Commissioner constantine you raise the question of
why would we have to go through the planning process or
design work. This is going to be voter approved or
something that's going to be presented to the voters, why
do we want that process before we get voter approval. I
think the answer is if we don't get voter approval then
we will have to find another way to fund it.
We're going to have to build jail facilities, when
and if they're needed. I think that issue should be
listed under crime also.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
I agree. You're saying that
that the jail, that issue should be under crime as
opposed to under court?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
are entity that determines who goes to the jail but it's
really, you're out of the court system at that point. I
Yeah, I agree. The court's
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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think it fits better under crime prevention or
controlling crime. I don't think it makes a whole lot of
difference, but, there may be other issues under crime
that we need to focus on.
Another example may be that, we all try to
cooperate with the sheriff in terms of his goes, try to
get more men on the street, more patrols. The objective
may be to reduce crime in all categories. We need to
educate these people and try to deal with that criminal
situation, about when going to do with that information,
when they
MR. CLARK: We're looking at five thousand square
feet but that's square a footage areas. There's also a
other critical areas, certain up-lift capabilities and
the loading of certain critical members of the house, in
other words, if you look at the plan, those have to be
pointed out and if it meets that the design professionals
would be required to do that.
Obviously, that would increase the cost of the
house by a very small percentage point, I might add but
when it gets to 5, 6, 8, 10, 15,000 square foot house,
the safety concerns are extremely critical.
In addition to that area that we're trying to
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
95
address, we're also proposing at that some privatization
opportunities be available. The state now requires that
our inspectors be certified by the state, that they meet
certain experience criteria, that they have certain
educational and training criteria and there are
professional designers in the fields who also can meet
and get those licenses from the state.
So, in order to facilitate the option, the
availability of privatization, we're also incorporating
in that proposal, that inspections may be conducted,
they'll be working on contract basis for the county. So
they're responsible for us, not to the builder. We could
utilize the services of design or inspection
professionals so that the possible fluxuation of spike
periods in building, we could utilize the services. It's
probably better than hiring two or three inspectors and
laying them off or not having the capabilits of meeting
the inspection scheduals that are now about 95 percent
current within 24 hours.
That's kind of an update on where we're at with
building codes.
MR. FLAGLER: Mr. Clark, you mentioned that the
design professionals would become also inspectors;
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
6
96
licensed inspectors?
MR. CLARK: There's two different areas, the design
professionals would be required, in other words, there's
two different areas, one is the design professional such
as an engineer would be required, the builder would be
required to obtain his services to design that house.
The builder would also be required to obtain the services
of an engineer to inspect the house to ensure, in
addition to what inspections they do. The second point
was the design and inspection professionals, which could
be design professionals as well, we could utilize the
services of those, we would have the availability of
utilizing those to supplement our inspectors should the
need arise. It's two part.
MR. FLAGLER: Can you envision down the road,
considerable savings by having all of them required to
become licensed as inspectors themselves and make them
responsible for their own work and held them responsible
to it and if they didn't, provide the proper
work.anticipated to be in addition to regular meeting.
MR. FLAGLER: I'd like to see the design
professionals and perhaps in the long run, the inspectors
to be accountable.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
97
MR. CLARK: They are required to be accountable now
as well as the builders. At this juncture, until we sort
through this and until we have some experience with that,
there's always a concern that person, in other words, who
is my employer and my loan is to my employer so we're not
suggestion that it would happen we're suggesting that it
could happen.
So, we want to phase into this and say, if I had an
employee and he's accountable to me as a private
individual, in other words, we're not replacing our
inspectors now with private people, they're supplementing
it to have a higher degree of inspection.
So, could we do it down the road, yes, but a
private employee to a private employer, could it become
suspect, yes. At this point, we're not suggestion that
all inspectors be elimimated, we're say we want a higher
level of scrutiny in houses who have a higher level of
complexities but your point is well taken and it is
something we'll be looking at, the expansion of that.
MS. EDWARDS:
building codes?
MR. BRIGHAM:
act, you brought that up, Mr. Volpe.
Anymore questions or comments on
How about the safe neighborhood's
Does that fit under
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
98
this category? ·
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I don't think it does, I think
this is more technical in terms of the building code but
the safe neighborhoods in terms of security for
environmental design really doesn't fit with the number
of straps, as I understand it.
MR. CLARK: But the concepts certainly might be,
the conceptual idea certainly might be, if not endorsed
or at least reviewed by that department and perhaps
discussed with some builders. I'm saying there may be
room for discussion of that. -~
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I think that that's occurring
or it has occurred.
MR. CLARK: Yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: To that extent it has
someplace but not in the context of which I think you're
discussing in terms of design. I think in terms of
design professionals and actually signing off on plans
and specifications that they have done.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is that it, Paul?
MR. BRIGHAM: It seems it should required
inspections in that area.
MR. CLARK: We may, but today there is not a
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
99
mandate. There may be a mandate and then it would be
required inspections. I think we're in phase one of how
can it; is it feasible; and then at some point it may get
to the point where it would be a required inspection. If
it's required, certainly it's required to be inspected.
At this point it's not required so we don't have a
required inspection.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Does that come up in the
context with your work with the sheriff, doesn't it?
MR. BRIGHAM: I think the discussion has gone
around in circles here. I believe there's programs set
up for the Fall, it needs to be flushed out more.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: We're going to have a
symposium in september on the Safe Neighborhood's Act.
MR. MARTIN: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Who would it
collectively be in that case.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: The county, the city and the
sheriff. In terms of the overall planning for it, I've
been working the representatives from the sheriff's
office, city police, cty manager and a designee from
contractor's office to try to put it together and some
other interesting groups.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
lO0
So, I think the thought is that some time this Fall
and it'll tie into the kinds of things that Paul and Dick
are talking about, but overall, I hope to be able to
bring something back to the board a little bit more
definitive later in the summer, by that I mean probably
in July, a program.
MR. MARTIN: Can we move on to the court system at
this time? Are there any remarks, questions, or
MR. BRIGHAM: I just wanted to, as a generally as
possible state our personal goals. That the first four
goals, these basics, changing alternatives to pretrial,
post trial, that our jail is quickly filling to
compacity. The house arrest program is currently run by
a private vendor and needs to be expanded so a year from
now we would like to take that over.
The work release restitution center as its backbone
the concept that while these criminals need to be
detained, we constantly take away their ability to
perform court orders or something that's less than jail.
The third item is pretrial intervention that the state
attorney's office is going to bring on line in October.
This is for first time offenders that can work certain
activities.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
lol
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Paul, we talked time to
time about with jail expansion, is there a proposed date
for that?
MR. BRIGHAM: It has not been put out and hardened.
This year we're going to be talk about design, presumedly
in the next fiscal year.
projects last year.
MR. CONRECODE:
We'd also reviewed capital
Commissioner, something that might
be worth while in pointing out the board is adopting a
policy, the place funding for the jail project at some
point for their support. We haven't had any clear
direction as to when we want to put that to the board,
I'm sorry, put that to the voters. That will have an
impact on their budget.
MR. BRIGHAM: Yes, development of the atrium of the
courthouse.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: So that we could continue on
rainy days.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: As follow-up to Commission
Constantine's question, I thought the sheriff was before
the board in connection with the boot camp. He indicated
there may be a need additional 140 beds. Currently we're
not at that capacity. We're under contract with the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
102
federal government because our facilties being under
utilized.
MR. BRIGHAM: In the last six months, I've been
told that the jail no longer excepts federal prisoners.
We know long he participate in that program.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
103
STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF COLLIER )
I, Jacquelyn D. McMiller, Deputy Official Court
Reporter, do hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings
were taken before me at the date and place as stated in the
caption hereto on Page 1 hereof; that the foregoing
computer-assisted transcription, consisting of pages numbered
2 through 105, inclusive, is a true record of my Stenograph
notes taken at said proceedings.
Dated this ~
J
2
of June, 1994.
~quelyn D. McMiller
~ty Official Court Reporter
~ Judicial Circuit
STATE OF FLORIDA
COUNTY OF COLLIER~
The foregoing certificate was acknowledged before me this
/~ day of July, 1994, by Jacquelyn D. McMiller,
who is personally known to me.
N~ary Public
State of Florida at Large
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962