BCC Minutes 05/19/1994 W (Golden Gate Area Townhall Meeting)1
COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
PUBLIC HEARING
ORIGINAL
May 19, 1994
?:30 p.m.
GOLDEN GATE COMMUNITY CENTER
4701 Golden Gate Parkway
Naples, Florida
Reported by:
Terri L. Schultz
Deputy Official Court Reporter
20th Judicial Circuit
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
Carrothers Reporting Service, Inc.
20th Judicial Circuit - Collier County
3301 East Tamiami Trail
Naples, Florida 33962
TELE: (813) 732-2700
FAX: (813) 774-6022
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
BOARD MEMBERS:
Tim Constantine, Chairman
John Norris, Commissioner
Betty Matthews, Commissioner
Mike Volpe, Commissioner
Jim Stuart
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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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MR. CONSTANTINE: Well, we've got three of the five
with us thus far. My apologies; I understand the
newspaper said ?:00 p.m. Our agendas and the original
schedule was for 7:30; I was on Loveday & Lytle tonight
from 6:00 to ?:00 and Jeff kept saying to me, "Aren't you
supposed to be up at that meeting at ?:007"
And I'm thinking, "Gee, I thought it was ?:30."
Anyway, we'll get started.
We have a list of items here for discussion; we'll
also be open -- if there are any topics that are not
covered on here, we're open to those as well. We'll run
through these, and then we'll open it up for whatever it
is you'd like to talk about.
I understand Jim Stuart, who is hosting tonight,
has a couple of comments in reference to the agenda.
MR. STUART: Welcome to the Golden Gate area
Chamber of Commerce's program, Town Hall Meeting this
evening. We'll start with the invocation with Pat
Coucher.
MR. STUART:
MS. COUCHER:
Please stand.
Bow your heads, please.
Lord, thank you for gathering us together, giving
us this opportunity as a community to express our needs.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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And we hope that with your wisdom and guidance, that you
will guide us for the betterment of our community, Amen.
MR. STUART= And now we have Tom Henning who will
step forward and lead us in the pledge of allegiance.
(Mr. Tom Henning led the pledge of allegiance.)
MR. CONSTANTINE= Jim, if I might, we want to Just
take about 20 seconds of silence for Mr. Sigretta who was
with us at the last meeting that passed away.
(Moment of silence.)
MR. CONSTANTINE= Thank you.
MR. STUART: It's my pleasure to welcome to Golden
Gate three of our Board of County Commissioners. First
of all from the first district, which is Marco Island and
East Naples and the Naples -- eastern part of the City of
Naples, Commissioner John Norris. From the second
district, which includes a portion of North Naples and
Pelican Bay and --
MR. VOLPE: All the way up the Lee County line.
MR. STUART= All the way up the Lee County line,
Commissioner Mike Volpe. And from the third district, we
have our very own Tim Constantine.
We also have in our presence today quite a number
of county staff people. Rather than introduce all of
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
them, I'd like to ask all the county staff people to
stand and be recognized.
And County Attorney Ken Cuyler is here. And Ken
had one announcement that he wished that we would make,
and that is that the issues of the APEC expansion and the
issues relating to the Florida City's water, the County
Attorney's Office asked that we not address those issues;
the reasons being that APEC and the expansion of the
Florida City Water Plant are issues that are before the
Board of County Commissioners that are in a situation
that could lead to litigation against the county~ and
therefore, it's inappropriate for the Board to make any
comments about that at this time.
Is that an accurate reflection, Ken, of what you
wish?
MR. CUYLER: Yes.
MR. STUART: Thanks. The issues that we have
involving Golden Gate are many. And our area's expanding
at a rapid pace~ many see the expansion as being a very
favorable thing, and some people view the expansion as
not too favorable.
One of the areas of expansion that we have is a
commercialization of the Golden Gate Parkway, the
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business section, including issues such as beautification
and wide turn lanes on Golden Gate Parkway and Santa
Barbara. I'd like to ask the commissioners each to
address these issues then throw open for the public to
make comments on the specifics of the issue.
Also I note that Commissioner Bettye Matthews, who
represents the Fifth, which is Golden Gate Estates, the
good bit of Golden Gate Estates, also Immokalee and
eastern Collier County, has Just stepped in.
Commissioner Constantine, if you'd like to lead
off.
MR. CONSTANTINE: As far as Golden Gate Parkway and
the business section, one of the things we have all
complained about in the initial planning of Golden Gate
was all the multi-family units that were placed on our
major roadways.
As you look on the east end of Golden Gate Parkway
or you look on Sunshine or any of those, the entry ways
to our community are not always the places of which we
are most proud because they are virtually all
multi-family.
The end of Golden Gate Parkway, Just east of Santa
Barbara, was initially zoned multi-family as well. The
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
Board saw fit to change that to com~ercial and are
looking forward to hopefully, in the not too distant
future, having development there commercially.
There are a few things that are of concern there in
that the lots are not very deep. And with the required
setbacks, some of the requirements that have been placed
upon lots county wide and specifically there, it will
take more than one lot, and thus possibly more than one
owner cooperating, in s~e cases, I think as many as four
owners cooperating, to be able to legally zone -- meet
the zoning requirements there.
So we want to try to encourage the business
development there so we have a more appropriate welcome
to our community as you drive into the area, but we need
to address how to do that. It's legally possible now.
It's within this Board's ability to make that easier for
the business community to develop that. I think that's
something we need to move forward with.
MR. STUART: If any of the other commissioners
would like to address that issue.
MR. VOLPE: I've lived in Collier County for 14
years. The first seven years of my life in Collier
County were spent on 41st Street Southwest here in Golden
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
Gate. So I am, I think I safely can say, I am the senior
member of this panel this evening. Mr. Saunders has not
yet arrived.
I've been here for 14 years~ lived and worked in
the community. Some of you are familiar, some of you are
not familiar to me. My point would be that a lot of
people who I meet have been here five years or less.
I have seen changes in the Golden Gate Community
that some of you may not have seen. Again, I came here
in 19 -- late 1979 when, Golden Gate Parkway was two
lanes, when we used to go to Naples to buy our groceries
when we did not have a supermarket in Golden Gate.
There have been some changes, as we all recognize
in the community. The Golden Gate Master Plan, which was
adopted by the Board in 1989, I think addresses the
issues as it relates to the commercialization along your
major corridor, Golden Gate Parkway. Mr. Constantine's
mentioned what safeguards have been put in place to
ensure that we don't have strip commercial along the
Parkway.
There is the requirement -- and we've got Mr.
Arnold from our Growth Management Department and from
Developed Services who can help. My recollection ~s that
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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those commercial tracts are required to be developed in
planned Unit Developments so that we might end up with a
better plan than Just the strip commercial.
I got here at 7:00 o'clock, believing what I read
in the newspaper, which was my first mistake. And so I
siezed upon the opportunity to drive around Golden Gate.
Not that I haven't done it recently, but I was killing
some time.
And the medians are beautiful~ I remember when you
first started doing the beautification program. You need
some help, in my opinion~ something needs to be done with
the northwest corner of 951 and Golden Gate Parkway.
That whole area. You've got a shopping center that's
dead. You've got some commercial parcels back in there
that 1end themselves to -- they're C-4 zoning -- that
somehow that whole area needs to be developed. And I
think that that is important.
We're talking about the Gateway of the Golden Gate
Community coming from the west. But when you hit 951 and
you're coming in from 951, which is where a lot of your
people, people visiting our community come from, that
needs to be -- in my opinion, we need to do something
about that to the extent that we could help in planning
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and do some things to improve that area, I think, are
important.
We are in the process of beginning the four-laning
of 951 going to the south beyond Davis Boulevard. It is
going to be what the community envisions as the beltway,
kind of like Washington, developing the sites of the
beltway, but most of us -- except those of you in Golden
Gate Estates. But the point is that it's really -- it's
the alternate route, so people will be coming from Marco,
will be coming from 1-75 and going around 951 and picking
up Immokalee Road and going on into Lee County.
That's why if you are aware, and I'm sure all of
you are, that what we did on Immokalee Road was kind of
accelerated the four-laning of Immokalee Road. We've
done it from U.S. 41 to Airport Road, and we're doing it
as a part of -- if you haven't been out there. Most of
you have probably been out to Sam's, so as you go further
to the east, it's being four-laned and eventually will be
four-laned all the way to 951 so that will make the
four-laning around.
So the commercialization is -- I think we've tried
to address it. You've helped us in that process; you've
done it in an orderly way. Santa Barbara is going to
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have a significant impact upon the Golden Gate Community
once that S-Curve is completed and it takes the traffic.
All of you have driven along Santa Barbara. Santa
Barbara is another area that needs to be plannea better
than it has been. We did, as a part of the Golden Gate
Master Plan, we planned Santa Barbara. We need to make
sure that that corridor within your community is
developed properly. 'Medians along Santa Barbara need to
be addressed. That's going to be a major north/south
corridor, at least from Pine Ridge Road to Davis
Boulevard, and we'll see what the future decides.
I think we've done some good planning, but you all
need to'be sensitive to those issues, and I'm sure you
are. But particularly the 951 area that I mentioned, I
think it is an area that needs to be addressed by the
community, by the chamber, and the other is Santa Barbara
as it goes to the north.
MR. STUART~ Any one of the commissioners have any
comments? We'll open this up then to the county staff.
Do any of you want to address anything on 9517
I believe you brought a graphic on Golden Gate
Parkway and Santa Barbara, if you don't mind doing that.
One of the issues that we had wished to address was the
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potential of -- the potential of adding turn lanes on
Golden Gate Parkway and Santa Barbara.
MR. ARCHIBALD= If I can, let me start from the
east and work to the west. Can everyone here me?
PUBLIC: No.
MR. STUART= George, if you don't mind using this.
MR. ARCHIBALD: How about that?
MR. STUART: This is George Archibald who is --
MR. ARCHIBALD: Good evening. My name is George
Archibald. I'm the Transportation Administrator for
Collier County. And very quickly, let me cover a couple
of items on Golden Gate Parkway. Let me start from the
east of the intersection of 951 and work our way to the
west.
The first item that's been addressed is the
landscaping at the intersection of 951 and Golden Gate
Parkway. I think everybody is aware that there is a
taxing district where, in fact, you're taxing yourselves
approximately one half of a mill per year for the
purposes of landscaping right now. The majority of that
money is going towards the maintenance of the landscaping
on the Golden Gate Parkway.
To expand that landscaping to either Sunshine or
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Tropicana or 951, will require the existing ordinance to
be amended. So one of the topics that you all need to
consider in the very near future would be whether or not
you want to expand that landscaping district to include
more than Just Golden Gate Parkway.
Obviously, there's some esthetic benefits, but
there's also value benefits as that landscaping is
considered for expansion.
The county is starting a program out on 951 at the
intersection of Golden Gate Parkway, and we're going to
be planting wildflowers. That project was started back
in April and delayed due to receipt of all of the
materials and the special seed that was necessary. That
project has started~ we expect actual planting to be done
before the end of May, and hopefully that will be a good
trial project. And possibly we'll want to extend that
concept to either Tropicana or Sunshine in the very near
future.
Coming down Golden Gate Parkway to the intersection
of Santa Barbara, the Board had approved a funding of a
project that would provide for right-turn lanes at all
approaches to the intersection. I think those of us that
use that intersection realize that as you come into it,
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there's no right-turn lanes to make right turn movements
during the red cycle of the signal. The staff through
the OCPM Office has gone ahead and designed the
intersection. We're in the process of acqu~ring the
rights-of-way, an~ right now that project looks like it
may start before the end of the year. And it's all
dependent upon one item~ it's dependent upon whether or
not we can acquire the rights-of-way involved.
Right now there's three parcels necessary~ we've
acquired two of them. The remaining parcel may have to
go through eminent domain or condemnation to be acquired.
If it does, it's going to double the cost of the
right-of-way acquisition process and delay things until,
most likely, 90 to 120 days. So that's one problem that
the county is trying to address.
And until we acquire the rights-of-way, we won't be
able to start construction on that project itself. And
again, the construction alone is estimated to cost in --
about a quarter of a million dollars. I think those were
the items that you wanted me to touch on.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Just a little humor on it. In
about January of this year, I was talking to our staff
about the wildflower program you mentioned. And our
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agriculture guy said it would probably be best if we had
native Florida flowers in the median, and we did a little
research. And the only place you could find the seeds
for the native Florida flowers was in California.
MR. STUART= Does anybody in the public wish to
address the issue of the Golden Gate area, the Golden
Gate Parkway area? Commercialization? Any issues that
we've talked about to this point? I guess not.
MR. CONSTANTINE= Just one final other thing on
that, Jim. Commissioner Volpe mentioned the plaza that
used to be the Woolley's Plaza down there. Of course,
with the big store vacancy is not in the best interest of
the community.
I've been trying to talk with some of the larger
businesses around the state and around the country to
draw some interest. And the one I thought would be most
interesting and perhaps most beneficial was called
Theaters; however -- and they actually initially had some
interest, but they were also trying to move forward with
their 20 Cinema complexes~ they have devised a ruling and
are moving forward with that. With those 20 and the 10
up north and they're looking at doubling the number down
in Town Center, they don't feel they can support any
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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additional theaters. So the search continues for
businesses there. If anybody has any tips on that, we're
certainly open to them. Hopefully, we will not leav~
that vacant for any great length of time.
MR. STUART= The next issue on the agenda tonight
is the interchange which has been proposed for 1-75 and
Golden Gate Parkway. That interchange has been on
again-off again, and where do we stand? Are we now off
again?
MR. CONSTANTINE= We're not necessarily off again,
and perhaps our staff can address the particulars, but I
can give a quick overview. Before we can make a formal
request, if you will, for that, the FDOT has to complete
their I-?S study as to what the needs are down the road
on the interstate itself all the way up.
That's not expected -- Jim, help me here -- that's
about another 18 months before that's completed?
MR. STUART: Yes.
MR. CONSTANTINE: At that time we can move forward
to our study for a need. I guess, even though there
isn't one, I suspect the word will be: Yes, there is
one, a need for an interchange there at Golden Gate
Parkway.
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Assuming that everything goes smoothly, we are
still past the year 2,000, 2,002, at this point, before
it will actually be constructed and open to business, and
that's Just kind of the way things unfold.
Unfortunately, the wheels of government seem to
turn awfully slow on some of that. That's working with
both state and federal government, that's not Just a
local thing.
MS. KLUEVEN: Jim, this is not for that particular
interchange, but for those of us who are coming off of
Exit 16 trying to make a left-hand turn to come this way.
Is there any plans for a light there?
MR. CONSTANTINE: The question is: Right now --
George, I don't know if you heard the question. The
question is: For those of us coming off Exit 16 and
trying to turn left and come north, that's pretty tough
to do right now. What are the plans there?
MR. ARCHIBALD: The State has not only approved
that designs, but it's under contract.
MR. CONSTANTINE: He says the State has not only
approved that, but it's currently under contract.
MS. KLUEVEN: When can we expect that?
MR. ARCHIBALD: I'm not sure of the contract time,
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but I would expect something in the neighborhood of six
months.
MR. PERKINS= We're Just waiting for death to
happen right there at that path. That's bad news.
Especially if you're driving a truck and you can't see
out through the window.
MR. VOLPE= What some of. you may not know is that
the five of us sit as members of the Metropolitan
Planning Organization which plans the transportation
network for the urban, and now the rural areas of Collier
County, among other things.
I think Mr. Constantine was a little optimistic
about where we are about the possibility of the
interchange at Golden Gate Parkway and 1-75. I sat
through the last meeting with the Metropolitan Planning
Organization, and the plans that the State has for
actually six-laning 1-75, which is back in 1979 and '80
and probably up through '84, we didn't have 1-75.
The plans are really in the distant future about
the six-laning. So I'm not as optimistic as Commissioner
Constantine is that we're looking at the year 2002.
That's my own personal view. I think it's going to
happen later than that.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
The other thing that I have heard is that there are
mixed reviews in the Golden Gate Community about whether
or not people really do want an interchange there, what
the impacts will be upon that area of Golden Gate
Estates, what that will do. Because around our
interchanges, it becomes to some extent, interchange
commercial, and what impact will that have in terms of
the development in that area as the very upscale of
Golden Gate Estates areas. There's some very, very
expensive homes in that area that will have -- will be
impacted. And also, the question about the flow of
traffic into and out of your community.
George, when are we planning on six-laning Golden
Gate Parkway?
MR. ARCHIBALD: The segment that is between 1-75
and Airport Road is outside our five years. The segment
that's between 1-75 and Airport Road is right now outside
our five-year plan.
MR. VOLPE= And how about from the 1-75 coming to
the east?
MR. ARCHIBALD: I believe you're looking at
something more like the year 2010, within that
time-frame.
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MR. VOLPE= So my point is, you know, you're going
to put an interchange there, you're looking at six-laning
Golden Gate Parkway. And the other thing that our
transportation people are going to tell you is that we
are planning in the next ten-year planning horizon,
something that you and I have not seen, and that is urban
interchanges, flyovers, overhead flyovers at Golden Gate
Parkway and Airport Road, Golden Gate -- Airport Road and
Pine Ridge Road, Pine Ridge Road and U.S. 41.
It's a change, change is a little bit different
than what we've been accustomed to. So as a part of that
planning program, you know, one of the things that we
become a little sensitive to is the transportation
network. We need to move people around the community,
but we're all going to adjust to what are known as urban
interchanges. And the Grey Oaks Project, which as all of
you know, Grey Oaks Project, is primarily at the
intersection of Golden Gate Parkway and Airport Road. At
each one of the quadrants, there are 40 acres at minimum
of office commercial and retail, at those -- that
quadrant. So start thinking about, you put an urban
interchange, you put an 1-75 interchange~ it'd be
different.
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MR. STUART: How many people -- I'd like to see a
show of hands of how many people here would be generally
in favor of an interchange, 1-75 to Golden Gate Parkway
and how many people -- let's do generally in favor. How
many people would generally be opposed to an interchange
there? Pretty well split.
MR. PERKINS: One other question. How many people
live close to.it?
MR. CONSTANTINE: What do you define as "close"?
MR. VOLPE: It'll all be very ¢1ose before you know
it, let me tell you.
MR. PERKINS: You talk about the flyovers, you're
talking about Broward County?
MR. VOLPE: No, I was talking about Collier County.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Just for the record, can we get
names of all speakers?
MR. DEWULF: Richard DeWulf. One-third of all the
traffic that gets off at the interchange at Pine Ridge
and 1-75 has to go down to Airport Road and head south on
Airport Road, and that overloads Airport Road. Now, I
know Airport is going to be six-laned, but if it's going
to come to Golden Gate Parkway having an interchange
within five years, you can bet your bottom dollar,
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because you're going to get traffic gridlocked on Pine
Ridge Road.
MR. COLETTA= Jim Coletta. I have one question=
If they ever get to that point and have to six-lane the
Parkway, are we going to lose the median, or we still
have the right-of-way on both sides if we can get that
extra lane in?
MR. ARCHIBALD= We'll lose it.
MR. CONSTANTINE= Theoretically, we could lose it.
I think what you're talklng about for six-laning -- the
first section would be six-laned, potentially, would be
on the west side of the bridge from 1-75. By the time
you got in here six-lane, you're pretty far away.
Theoretically, we would lose the -- we're maybe 15 or 20
years from that~ you can correct me if I'm wrong. We
could potentially lose the beautification.
MR. LAKER= I'm Bill Laker from Golden Gate
Estates. I'm talking about four-laning say Immokalee
Road and 95 south of Davis Boulevard. Now, I have
noticed that the speed limits there are 55 miles an hour,
but all the time that they have four-laned it, after they
have four-laned it, they've slowed it to 45 miles per
hour. How come?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MR. CONSTANTINE: George?
MR. ARCHIBALD: It's a legal requirement based upon
design criteria. Whenever we go from a rural design to
urban design using curbs and gutters, and wherever you
have a curb line, they require you to reduce the speed
limit from 55 to 45. It's a design criteria.
We're going back on a couple roadways, and
fortunately, I think we're going to be doing studies that
may Justify increasing t~at speed limit in a number of
locations~ primarily on 951, but not on Airport Road from
our status.
MR. STUART:
who?
Now George, these standards are set by
MR. ARCHIBALD: The federal government.
MR. STUART: Really, it's not the county that makes
that decision, it's the federal government. Anybody
else?
MR. GRAHAM: My question is: Are they going to
have to six-lane this out in front of here on the Parkway
from 951 to Santa Barbara?
MR. CONSTANTINE: If we could get a name.
MR. GRAHAM: My name is Tom Graham.
MR. ARCHIBALD: Let me correct what I Just said
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about the medians. The question was whether or not the
median would be lost on the Golden Gate Parkway. And I
was thinking in terms of the median on that segment to
the west of Santa Barbara~ that median will be lost. The
median in Golden Gate City itself from Santa Barbara
coming back to the east, that does not plan on being
expanded to six lanes through the year 2010.
MR. HARVEY: Hi, Tim Harvey. And the little
comment about the federal government telling what the
speed limits are on a particular portion of the road.
And the couple of snickers I heard, reminded me of the
fact that I've sent information to all the commissioners
today with an invitation to either attend or send a
representative, someone in the county government, or
someone we can trust, to a conference taking place in
Ocala, which has to do with the power and authority of
county government and as related to a number of counties
out west that have somehow adopted the Constitution of
the United States as an ordinance, or something to that
effect.
I don't really know about it -- and even perhape
adopted the state constitution as a county ordinance,
which puts a tremendous local power back into the county
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government. And I hope that a number of you have gotten
that information that I faxed to you. But I have some
copies here I can give to you if not.
Anybody else that's interested, myself and my wife
are going up~ we Just found out about it several days
ago. But there are some very impressive people coming to
give this talk. And as I understand, one of the people
in Fort Myers that I talked to who is going is evaluating
it, and my part would be to evaluate it also to see if
it's really serious; does it mean anything~ is it
sensible~ and if so, to invite that conference to be held
either in Lee or Collier County or somewhere close by
where we can have more people attending.
But this will play into many areas where federal
government or state government is overpowering local
decisions in many areas that I personally feel has been
overdone. And in using the hammer of tax dollars which
we have sent to Washington or to Tallahassee, and saying
we can't have it back if we don't comply with certain
things. And I didn't mean to take that much time, but --
if anybody's interested in this information, let me know.
MR. THESIN: George Thesin, Golden Gate Estates.
You say the federal government regulates the speed limit,
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but state and local county regulated the new speed limits
to come into effect in Golden Gate Estates. Any
questions on that?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Can you repeat that?
MR. STUART~ Yes. The question~ Did the county
regulate the new speed limits in the Golden Gate Estates?
MR. ARCHIBALD: The speed limits on certain
roadways are designatedby state statute. Those state
statutes are in turn based upon federal guidelines or
federal laws. In the case of the Golden Gate Estates
speed limits, those were revised in certain locations to
either, one, reinforce the existing speed limit, or two,
establish a speed limit without question. And that power
local government does have.
MS. COUCHER: My name is Pat Coucher.
Mr. Archibald, I noticed that in the past few days, 16th
Street -- no, excuse me, 23rd Street has been patched
where -- for pavement. But then on 27th Street, a street
that's not heavily traffic between -- I'm talking about
out in the estates, between White Boulevard and Golden
Gate Boulevard -- that 27th Street was completely
repayed. Is there plans for all the streets tO be
repaved, and why was 23rd only patched when I felt that
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
27
it was more heavily traveled?
MR. ARCHIBALD= There's two ongoing programs in the
Golden Gate Estates to maintain the roads. One program
is funded through a GAC Trust. And that program upgrades
existing limerock roads to a paved-road standard. So
you've got the one ongoing program that, depending upon
traffic volume on a certain roadway, allocates funds and
makes improvements from limerock to paved-road standard.
so on the limerock road you've mentioned, that
particular road was upgraded using that GAC Trust. In
the case of existing roads out in the Estates that need
to be resurfaced -- and we have many, many -- what we do
is a service life review of the condition of the roadway.
And what we're attempting to do is resurface those
roadways to extend their life.
So we've got a second program that, in fact, is
roadway resurfacing that only applies to those roadways
that are currently paved. And in those cases what we're
doing is, based upon service life using those resurfacing
dollars to resurface and extend the service life based
upon a condition survey, which takes into consideration
not only the condition, but the subgrades and the ty~e of
damage that's occurred over time.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
28
MS. COUCHER= The 27th Street was not a limerock
road. It's pavement.
MR. ARCHIBALD= Again, it takes into consideration
the condition of the street, and in many cases where we
have what's called double surface treated roads, in
certain cases, they're beginning to unravel. And if we
don't go in and resurface the roadway, then we have to
end up coming in and reconstructing the base. And the
cost of restructuring that roadway is many times the cost
of resurfacing.
I would expect that if we look at the service life
of the adjacent roadways, those may also be on the list
to be resurfaced. The funding only allows three to four
miles of that resurfacing a year.
MR. PERKINS= My name's'A1 Perkins. As long as
we're talking about transportation and roads in the
estates, I want to bring something up. When's the
commission going to pursue getting proscriptive rights to
Miller Boulevard Extension so that there's no more
accidents and fatalities out there?
Right at the present time, they put up all the
signs because two people got killed and other people
could possibly get hurt. Now, when is that evacuation
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER.COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
29
route from Marco Island and Goodland going to be put in
place?
It's strictly up to you people to take and do it.
Now, we've collected over three million dollars a year
out there that is not being spent in the Estates south of
the~Alley or in the Belle Meade area. I want to know
where their money goes. Did they take and buy nice new
Jeep vehicles? Because it didn't go into very fancy
wages. Salaries?
MR. CONSTANTINE= ~o Jeeps any more.
MR. PERKINS= But the point is, before we kill
anybody else, we need to take and put that evacuation
route in place. Whether you people know it or not, the
conservancy representing the Department of Natural
Resources, the Government of the State of Florida, all
stopped any progress out there and had the signs taken
down at Art Surface Road intersection.
We had two people get killed out there in a car
accident, and one of them could'rs probably been saved,
the way I understand it, if an emergency vehicle could
have gotten there fast enough.
The road was not prohibited. There was two
commissioners; one of them is not here tonight, who put
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESv FL 33962
3O
down the spending of a lousy $3,000 to be able to get
that emergency vehicle in quick enough to save either
your kids, your grandchildren, or my kids, or any
strangers that happened to be out in a recreaction area
that is a designated, under the cart project, which is
conservation recreation.
They don't want anybody in there, but at the same
time, people are going to be in there, the roads are in
place. The evacuation from Marco Island to Goodland has
to be put in place versus planting flowers on the
Boulevard over here. Thank you.
MR. NORRIS: I'd like to see if Mr. Cuyler can
address -- Mr. Weigel. Are you here? Mr. Weigel, could
you come forward and perhaps talk a bit about the
proscriptive rights to ease Mr. Perkins' crusade on it?
MR. WEIGEL: I'm David Weigel, Assistant County
Attorney. And in regards to proscriptive rights, whether
·
they would be pursued by Collier County or any group of
persons claiming that an easement right existed over
property based on usage, the requirements, you may have
heard -- the requirements to establish a proscriptive
easement are difficult and intensive and require a rather
exhausting amount of detail, and they must be proved by
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
31
clear and abundant evidence. It requires a period of 20
years of uninterrugted use, which is not consensual, over
the private property that may have been used by members
of the public.
If there is a breakage of the continuity of use by
the adverse interest, meaning someone other than the
private property owner, by means of signage being
replaced, posting for a period of time, consensual use by
the owner of the private property for the use of anyone
else, which implies by law that consensual use can be
revoked. All of these elements prevent the proving of
proscriptive easement.
So it's a very difficult process, at best. It
requires records dating back at least 20 years, because
that's the minimum requirement by law that must be
proven. And as I mentioned, the elements are very
difficult to prove because the legislature is determined
with the law that it's provided for proscriptive
easement, that the taking of private property shall not
be done lightly or easily.
HR. NORRIS= Mr. Weigel, are you familiar with the
particular road signal that Mr. Perkins is concerned
with?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
32
MR. WEIGEL= No. I know it from the map, but I
don't know it from personal travel.
MR. NORRIS= Perhaps some day next week or in the
next couple of weeks if you can take a look at that and
see if there may be a basis for proscriptive rights or
not, so that Mr. Perkins can be -- his concerns will be
put to rest one way or the other.
MR. PERKINS= May I respond? George, do you care
to respond on it? Because you have all the information
and law that went through the county on this. And
because of the four commissioners in 1992, Mr. Volpe was
one, Saunders was another one, Max Haas was another one,
Shanahah is another one. Anne Goodknight voted for it to
take and put that $3,000 worth of filling in place. Now,
there was no proscriptive rights at that time, but since
we made fatality lawsuits against the county and all the
rest of them, it's time that this county hack At to take
and get that evacuation improved. Would you respond,
please?
MR. ARCHIBALD= The staff has made a survey of the
roadway, and we have been able to confirm and provide
evidence to indicate that it has been opened and under
public use for over 20 years.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
33
Unfortunately, that's only part of the expense that
the county would incur. In going ahead and acquiring
those rights-of-way, either by some formal method or the
proscriptive right method, would involve a very large
cost. In addition, there's been a very strong indication
by the permitting agencies that any road improvements
that the county may consider would also be very difficult
to permit.
So in addition to having to overcome the
proscriptive rights criteria, we're looking at an
endeavor that would be very expensive.
MR. PERKINS: What's the cost of one life? You've
already lost four out there. What's the cost of one
life, especially the kids that live on Marco Island and
Goodland area and the ones along 41 that are in the
doggon campgrounds over there, and all the new
developments. What then? Where are we at?
Are we spending -- don't forget, you're talking
three million dollars out there. You're sure not giving
me anything for my money. If I need a cop, by the time I
need him --
MR. NORRIS: Mr. Perkins, we're trying to conduct a
meeting here, if you would please. How many accidents
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
34
are we concerned about out there?
MR. PERKINS=
six lawsuits.
MR. NORRIS=
One person?
So far, I think you're involved in
On that one road? Is that the only
road in the county that we've had a fatal accident on?
MR. PERKINS= No. But it's the only road in the
county that nothing's been done about.
MR. NORRIS= Well, thank you, Mr. Perkins. But I
think you heard from some of the county staff that
something has been attempted to be done about that. So
the statement that nothing has been done is a bit of --
MR. PERKINS: Okay. We need more done then.
MR. NORRIS= Okay.
MR. STUART= Anyone else have any further comments
or questions concerning road improvements in the Golden
Gate area? Got several hands.
MR. EAGLESTON: Courthey Eagleston, in reference to.
beautification on the S-Curve at Santa Barbara and Logan.
I'm informed by your staff that they're planning on
putting up the six-foot chainlink fence around the
retention area, which does not fit into the community.
MR. ARCHIBALD: The three retention areas that are
required as part of the four-laning of the Santa Barbara
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
S-Curve. In all three cases, from the security
standpoint, we do plan on following through with the
fencing. Many of the residents out there requested that.
Also they suggested -- and we're following through
with the landscaping of those areas. So when we get
through with that project, we feel that those retention
areas will be properly secured, and more important, would
be acceptable from an esthetic standpoint when that
scheduling is established.
MR. VOLPE: George, I haven't had the opportunity
to ask the question, but in that area of Santa Barbara,
we're going to cul de sac -- is it 10th there?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes. The existing Logan that
extends north of Green will become a cul de sac. It will
have no outlet to the new S-Curve or the new four-lane of
Santa Barbara.
So Green will intersect with Santa Barbara at a new
four-lane intersection. We've done a little review and
analysis of whether or not that would Justify a signal at
that location. It doesn't meet the ward requirement, but
it's something that we'll keep in mind once that project
is completed. You're looking at a completion date of the
first part of '95. And that four-lane Santa Barbara,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
36
again, will provide for an intersection with Green.
MR. WEGNER: I'm Bill Wegner again about Golden
Gate Boulevard. I know they're trying to four-lane it,
but they're getting some surveying done out there now.
Mr. Archibald, I don't know what that is for, but I
know that Just east of 21st Street the road is
disintegrating again. It's been disintegrating three
times since I've been here in 15 years, and I think
something should be looked at there, because it's a bad
section.
MS. HUGHES:
the Parkway?
MR. WEGNER:
MR. STUART:
MS. HUGHES:
MR. WEIGEL:
MS. HUGHES:
MR. WEGNER:
MS. HUGHES=
MR. STUART:
You talked about the disintegration of
Boulevard.
Golden Gate Boulevard.
21st and 23rd Street.
21st Street.
In that area.
The road is breaking up badly.
Yeah, I noted, too. Yeah.
Since we're on Golden Gate Boulevard's
four-laning, we might as well talk about what's going on
there. The county has approved, and there's a program
undergoing for the four-laning of Golden Gate Boulevard.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
How far out does that go?
MR. ARCHIBALD= Right now we're doing preliminary
design work through the office of the OCP to take a look
at the elements of four-laning Golden Gate Boulevard
between 951 and Wilson. Right now, it looks like the
most expedient cross-section would be a little
cross-section where you would have open ditches similar
to what you have today to handle and treat the rainfall
run-off that falls from the roadway into the ditch areas.
That so-called cross-section of what we're looking at and
the rights-of-way that may be necessary are very
preliminary. The actual need for that roadway from a
level-of-service standpoint isn't projected until the
late 1900's.
Right now in the county's long-term Growth
Management Plan, it looks like 1999. But your staff is
pursuing some of the preliminary design work so that
we're in a position to possibly gain permits and obtain
any rights-of-way that we may need early.
In terms of level of service and in terms of number
of cars, one of our projections is based upon the current
volume out there. That's around 10,000 trips per day.
Growing at the rate of between 5 and 11 percent per year,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
38
depending upon the rate of growth will depend upon what
point in time that proJeot will be needed for
four-laning.
Again, right now it's projected out in the year
1999.
MR. STUART: Any other further comments about
highway projects, road projects in Collier County?
MR. VOLPE: Probably everyone here is aware of it,
but maybe, George, toucb~.ng on Radio Road and Davis
Boulevard from Santa Barbara going to the east, in terms
of what our plans are, because that will impact upon what
seems to be the Golden Gate Community.
MR. ARCHIBALD: Outside the five years.
MR. VOLPE: It's outside the five-year time period.
But what is planned, though, is some reconfiguration of
that little -- where the Circle K is. That's going to
change, George, in the plan?
MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes. Commenting upon whether 84 is
relocated to the south.
MS. HUGHES: That depends on whether 84's related
to the south. For the benefit of the people here, I note
I drive 951 and south 84 quite often, and I think most of
us see that it's very incredibly dangerous. Can you tell
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
39
us what the plans are to that road?
MR. ARCHIBALD= The first contract to be
constructed will be 1995, and that first laying will be
from U.S. 41 up to Rattlesnake Hammock. One of the
reasons to that is that some of the utility relocation is
already taking plaoe on that project. It was actually
designed a number of years ago and it's in the
right-of-way acquisition phase today. But it's designed
to start construction '95, '96.
The next leg from Rattlesnake Hammock north to
State Road 84 is planned to continue the following years.
So within the next three to four years, you'll see both
segments under construction.
MR. STUART: I think we've generally discussed the
roadways pretty well. Let's move on to the next topic,
which is affordable housing. I think we have an issue of
definition here. What constitutes, or what are we
talking about in affordable housing? And once we sort of
define what we're talking about, I think the issue gets a
little easier to handle.
MR. CONSTANTINE: One of the things that excuse us
a little bit here in Collier County is many of our
coastal neighbors make a great deal of money. So the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESt FL 33962
4O
average income in Collier County is a lot higher than
some of our neighboring communities.
Department of Housing and Urban Development,
federal level, has different percentages of average
income that they use for very low, low, and moderate
income. We chose actually to alter those locally because
we didn't think if there was a family of four making
$50,00 a year or close to it, that's not who we should be
trying to help out~ those people can probably handle it
themselves. But according to the HUD statistics, those
are the groups that we have potentially been helping out.
So we altered our definition a little bit. It's at 50,
60, and 80~ is that right, Greg?
MR. MIHALIC= Yes. Under, for instance, the Impact
Fee Waiver and Deferral Program, we allow different
levels of benefits. But the maximum income you could
have to 80 percent of median income, where generally
throughout the state, more of these programs are set up
to be up to 120 percent of median income.
Now 120 percent of median in Collier County would
be $50,000 for a family of four. So we did reduce that
to 80 percent of median is the maximum.
MR. CONSTANTINE~ It's funny. Sometimes when you
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
41
hear that term "affordable housing," immediately, you
think, "Uh-oh." Over in East Naples on Radio Road, there
is a project that was recently approved by this Board.
That's a good example, I think, of what we're looking
for, although this is a high end of affordable, but they
had a mixed use. They had, I think, 200, roughly 200
units, single family homes they were putting in this
Forty or 42, 40 some odd number
little development.
of --
MR. MIHALIC: Forty.
MR. CONSTANTINE= -- were going to be affordable~
however, they were going to intersperse those among, one
of every one segment set aside, and this was the
affordable corner of the project.
They were interspersed. So as you drove dow~ the
street, you didn't know which families had been helped
out, because they had a type of financial situation which
had moved in and paid -- many of the houses, the majority
of the houses, I think, go for $105 to $109,000.
And so that is kind of the idea1 program where
you've mixed the two together, nobody is looked down upon
or frowned upon. There is an incentive there, obviously,
for that homeowner to keep their house looking nice.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
42
So I think that's the best of all worlds and
hopefully, we can get more of those. That is one,
although that is not what we referred to as mid-level
income, I think the 80 percent Greg was speaking of.
MR. MIHALIC: Would you like me to speak a little
about the the SHIPP Program? In your agenda you talked
about affordable housing in SHIPP. Well, SHIPP means
State Housing Initiative Partnership Program. That's
affordable housing money that is collected from
documentary tax stamps by the State that is given back to
the county to assist in the affordable housing. We get
between $250,000 and $350,000 a year to assist with
affordable housing from this money.
The Collier County has chosen to use this money in
three ways. One way is for impact fee waivers and
deferrals for first-time home buyers. And then,
depending on what your income is, you can get a 100
percent waiver of your impact fees on a house, you can
get a 50 percent waiver or a 50 percent derefta1 of your
impact fees, or you'll have to pay 7S percent of your
impact fees and get a 25 percent deferral. A~d the
maximum income for a family of four to get benefits under
the program would be $34,500.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
43
And as your income goes down, if you're a family of
four and you make 25,800 or less, you can get a higher
benefit, 50 percent waiver, and 50 percent deferral. Or
if your income is under $21,500 for a family of four, you
can be eligible for 100 percent waiver on your impact
fees as long as you're a first-time home buyer.
There's also -- let me show you. There's a sheet
in the entryway on this program. Please pick it up if
you're interested. There's also two other strategies
that we're using with the SHIPP money. One of the
strategies is to provide rehabilitation assistance for
very low income homeowners who presently are in the
county and need some rehabilitation in their houses.
This will be for, again, a family of four that
makes under $21,500. For older people, a single person
would have to earn under $15,050 to be eligible for this
program.
We would offer rehabilitation loans at zero percent
interest with deferred payments~ there will be no
payments, but the money will be due when you sell your
house. We come in and help you fix up your house, fix up
any code violations you have, and do rehabilitation.
The third program that we're going to use the SHIPP
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
44
funds for are down payments, closing costs, and down
payment costs for first-time home buyers.
Again, the maximum income for a family of four
would be $34,500; you'd be eligible for $2,500 down
payment on closing cost assistance, zero percent
interest, deferred payment.
And we also have to tie some rehab money with that
because that's the way that the state rules work. So we
will also provide up to $2,500 of additional rehab money
if you need it to allow you to use the benefit. That
will also be zero percent interest, defer payment until
you sell the house.
Is there any questions I can answer on affordable
housing? There is a new Affordable Housing Development
in Golden Gate that Just started. It's under
construction now; Santa Barbara and Green Boulevard.
That will be 78 units of three-bedroom apartments that
will rent at below market rates, and that's Just started
construction about a week and a half ago, I believe. We
Just granted some impact fee deferrals on that project a
couple weeks ago.
MR. STUART: All that project has the same zoning
requirements, the same requirements for plans and for
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
45
appearance that apply to all --
MR. MIHALIC= Yes. Normally, affordable housing
projects are built to the same standards that
market-based projects are. In fact, many times
affordable housing projects have more money spent per
unit on them because of the way that the tax laws are
written, or the developers spend more up front or spend
more on the building of the project because it allows
them some additional benefits. They also want to reduce
the amount of maintenance over the life of the project.
So many affordable housing projects are built stronger
and better than market-based projects.
MR. STUART: What can you tell us about the rate
structure for the rent and that type of thing?
MR. MIHALIC= Modern affordable housing does have
controlled rent, and it's rent that's controlled both by
our agreement that we have with the developer as well as
other state and federal rules that may be there.
For an apartment that is coming on line right now,
at this time is opening right now, depending on what
income level they're projecting in the apartment, the
rents for one bedroom will be approximately $409~ the
rent for two bedroom would be $485~ the rents for three
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
46
bedrooms would be about $550~ and the rents for four
bedroom would be about $645.
Now that's not including utilities. If the
developer paid some of the utilities on the unit, the
rents will be slightly higher than that.
MR. STUART= Many of those rents are comparable to
house payments in a lot of -- in a lot of areas.
MR. MIHALIC= Absolutely. I mean, we've really
broadened to encourage home ownership. We need two
markets here; one, rental market more aggressively
representing the homeowners' market, and many banks are
now offering down payments as low as three percent on
homes. And through the Department of Housing Urban and
House Approval, they can counsel people in home
ownership.
My number is 643-8330. If you're interested in
buying a house or you're going looking for a house now,
please give me a call. I'm Greg Mihalic.
We will help you determine what's the best
situation for you. And there are banks that are offering
very low down payment loans for home buyers who are 80
percent or less of the immediate income. It's an
excellent time to try to buy a house, and we, the county,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
47
encourage that.
MR. STUART= Any public -- any commissioner comment
or public comment on the issue?
MR. PERKINS= Is there any age limits to that?
MR. MIHALIC= No, sir. If you haven't owned a home
in the last three years, you're considered a first-time
buyer, so you can certainly get that assistance. And we
do have a number of older people that are taking
advantage of impact fee ~aiver and derefta1 programs to
build houses for yourselves. As long as you haven't
owned a home in the last three years.
In the Rehabilitation Program, we have taken
inquiries from interested citizens, and those are
primarily older people who have a need for some
rehabilitation in their houses.
HR. PERKINS: Thank you.
MR. STUART= Without any further questions on the
issue of affordable housing, we turn now to the issue of
the industrial and business development in Collier
County. This is one of my favorite issues because it
seems to me that we have not really done a good Job over
the past years of taking advantage of the attractive
climate that we have here, plus the attractive economic
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
48
climate that we have in Florida, South Florida, to
attract permanent employers, good businesses.
What can the county do? What can we as a community
do to attract industrial, good quality industrial and
high tech businesses here?
MR. CONSTANTINE= There's a couple of things we can
do. One thing to keep in mind, we don't want to hurt or
damage our existing businesses in the process of looking
for the new businesses. Last year there were -- I think
my statistics are correct -- about three thousand major
relocations in the country. Unfortunately, there were
about nineteen thousand different communities who were
actively seeking comganies to relocate to their
community. So that's a challenge to stand out in that
nineteen thousand.
I had a meeting about two or three weeks ago with a
starter corporation out of New Haven, Connecticut, which
is a corporation that currently holds the licensing for
all the professional franchises, NHL, NFL, NBA, Major
League Baseball, for all the clothing, all those things.
Virtually all the clothing and hats and everything you
see with any of those logos on them are from the Starter
Corp. They're about a $350 million a year company, and
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
49
they are looking to relocate to Florida for a number of
reasons.
They did a tour through Florida and stopped in a
number of communities, and they're looking for very
specific things, and obviously they're looking for any
additional tax incentives and those things that they can
get. We are working with them, they're coming back for
another visit. Actually, they're looking for a fairly
large site, and the place they're coming back to look for
is the Alico site up where the new university will be.
It's on the far side of the Lee County line. But
obviously, with a $350 million company, if they're only
eight or ten miles away, that's going to have a big
impact on our economy as well. They employ a great
number of people. Those people would live here.
That's the kind of thing we need to look at and
work with. We have a couple of corporations, private
entities, locally to do that sort of thing. We have
Economic Development Council that spend their time trying
to bring people down, trying to recruit new businesses.
I think we need to work with them. But as I
started out saying, we need to be careful ~ot to put our
existing companies at any disadvantage when we bring the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
5O
others in. I want to make sure it's a fair playing
field.
MS. MATTHEWS: I'd like to comment on one little
item; this is one of my favorites, too. One of the most
beneficial ways that we can enhance development in
Collier County is to use the local businesses that
operate and locate here. The most effective way to
expand the economy of the county is to expand the
businesses that already exist. The likelihood of
attracting outside industries to come and locate here --
I mean, it's great when it happens, but there's a
tremendous amount of effort that goes into attracting
even a single business, and you may spend your time
trying to get 100 or 150 businesses, and maybe if you're
lucky, you'll get one.
All of that effort would go to a lot more benefit
to help our existing businesses expand and grow. An
interesting thing that came up out of & conference I was
in over the weekend, it's kind of a regional concept.
One of things that happens here -- and the EDC has been
very good about it -- Collier County doesn't have right
now, except possibly Immokalee -- large tracts of
industrial property. And what the EDC is finding is that
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
51
many of these businesses that want to relocate to
southwest Florida, the officers of the corporation want
to live in Collier County, but they want to put business
in Lee County so that their employees can find what they
consider more affordable housing.
So that's another reason that we have to get the
affordable housing situation under control, so that these
companies can locate, if not in Collier County, closer to
Collier County. And we can have more of their employees
earning money and spending it here in Collier County.
MR. VOLPE= In direct response to your question,
Collier County government is doing, in my opinion, next
to nothing to provide incentives for new businesses to
come to this community.
In my real life, I do something other than being a
county commissioner, and I have a very real client who
has a very real business. His gross sales last year were
$40 million, he employs 200 people. He has a plastic
extrusion plant located in Ravena, New York. He wants to
relocate to Naples~ he wants to relocate to Collier
County.
He's my client; he is my friend. So he called me
up and he said, "Mike, Alabama, Georgia, they've got some
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
52
incentives to get my business to their community. I want
to come to Collier County. What can you do for me?"
There was a pregnant pause. A~d I said "Well,
we've got a nice climate, we've got the beaches, we've
got a labor pool."
He said, "Labor pool's fine. I'd like to bring
some of my people with me."
But there were no economic incentives. I'm a
conservative Republican and so I'm cautious about the
extent to which government should become involved. But
there is such a thing as private-public partnership.
And so I thought I had a great idea. I thought
about some type of a tax incentive, if we can defer
impact fees for people to build a home, who were looking
for affordable housing. I thought to myself, well, maybe
there's a way we don't have to give away, but maybe we
could defer impact fees for new businesses that wish to
relocate in Collier County. We'd give them a period of
time within which to pay us back.
You know, people, business, taxes, sounds like a
good idea to me. And then I read that Cape Coral had
Just passed an ordinance doing that and doing certain
sorts of tax incentives.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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Now, sometimes I think I have the greatest ideas in
the world, but -- my colleagues tolerate me and all that.
But then I find out =hat someone else had the idea before
I did.
So my answer to that is: We need to do more, we
need to do something in the way of economic incentives.
Mrs. Matthews mentions we have an enterprise zone located
in Immokalee. There are certain tax incentives; that's
big business that wants to come there, large tracts of
industrial property. All this guy wants is a small
building in Naples Production Park, J & C's; that's all
he needs. He maybe needs 14,000 square feet with a
loading dock. That's all he needs, close to 1-75. We've
got an international airport.
And someone said the other day to the Board of
County Commissioners, well -- when we were talking about
attracting new business, they said, "Well, what we really
have to focus on is our expansion of existing businesses
because we can't compete with Alabama and Mississippi."
I mean, maybe I've missed something, but gosh, we
are the fastest growing metropolitan area in the United
States. Alabama and Mississippi? We need to do better.
MR. STUART: We've got beaches and we've got good
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
54
weather most of the year. It seems like we ought to be
getting more than our fair share of those 3,000 moves
each year.
HR. CONSTANTINE: I told that speaker, the only
thing we couldn't compete with Alabama was in football.
HR. NORRIS: You know, Commissioner Volpe, that's a
point. We don't offer a lot of incentives financially
for a company to relocate here. But one thing that's
popular in the business world nowadays is finding a
niche, a certain thing that you do well. And of course,
what we do real well is provide a place to live for
affluent people, our golf courses, our beaches, all the
things that we have.
And it seems to me that one of our niches could
be -- especially since we have such an electronics
communication-oriented world -- our niche could be
regional or even national corporate headquarters.
You go out in the season to the Naples Airport any
weekend and you see nearly a hundred business Jets
sitting on the airport. These executives already know
that it's here, and they already use those facilities for
their recreational purposes.
It seems to me that the proper group of people
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
55
would be able to convince some of these major
corporations to locate some sort of a headquarters here.
Very simply, that would give them an excuse to write off
their weekend vehicle trips, and so forth, when they came
down here to visit those headquarters. I think that's a
niche that we should explore with the proper agencies.
MR. PERKINS: Can I say something to that?
MR. CONSTANTINE= Corporate headquarters on Miller
Boulevard.
MR. PERKINS: If you want to, that's fine.
Now, you've danced all around it. And Mr. Volpe
said -- and he didn't say the right thing. We do not
have an international airport here~ they have it up
there.
We need to take and be able to get a payload in
here and a payload out of here that is economical to
where a manufacturer can ship.
Now, don't Just look at this country and don't look
at this state. I want to ship to South America, to
Africa -- to Africa and to Europe and to Asia. Because
this could be the hub, which is Atlanta, right now. Up
there is the hub. Why not us?
They can put a lot of people to work and we can
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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take and make a lot of money. Not only that, we can take
and get the executives dow~ here. They'll, you're right,
write it off. They'll play both ends against the middle.
Thank you.
HR. CONSTANTINE= I was at the same conference
Commissioner Matthews was at this past week. And one of
the things we talked about was the importance of working
together regionally. And you're right, we don't have it
in Collier County. But that doesn't mean we don't have
the ability to use it in Collier County and take
advantage of the international airport.
Nearly 40 percent of the passenger traffic coming
and going from that international airport is coming to
Collier County. And I've got to think, we can do Just as
you said with cargo and some of those things. There's no
reason we can't be doing the same thing.
As far as not from an international standpoint but
from strictly a business and commercial standpoint, I
think that's the direction we're headed with the
Immokalee Air9ort, is being able to use that for
commerce.
And you've read in the newspapers, as of late, a
great deal about our new airport authority and our
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTYv NAPLES, FL 33962
57
developing the airports. And if you are not aware,
that's my background. I came to Collier County from the
aviation industry. My company used to run the Marco
Island Airport, among other things.
So I'm very familiar with what we can and can't do
with those airports. I think we are going to be able to
do shipping of some produce and some of those things out
of that Immokalee Airport. But it at least is going to
take time.
MR. VOLPE: It'd be nice to hear from some of you.
Maybe you can write us a little note as to whether you
think there's more we should be doing and what it is that
you think we could do or should do or should consider to
provide those kinds of economic incentives.
Agriculture is still the Number i industry in
Collier County, Number 2 is tourism, and Number 3 is
construction. That's not the way that we're going to
build the economic future of Collier County.
And just another little story, and I won't bore you
very long. But there's a company here called Allen
Systems. It's a worldwide computer~ it's the high tech
industry that my colleagues are talking about. He's been
trying for the last three years to get financing to build
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
58
a building at the old stonebrunner project down there.
And he can't get financing locally, there's nothing to be
done. He employs 120 people worldwide. He wants to put
his corporate headquarters there.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: How many did he say he
needs?
MR. VOLPE: You can call him. But my point is that
there's got to be something that private-public
partnerships can do that's got someone who's here who's
apt to be an existing business, who's going to leave this
area because he can't get some sort of economic
assistance to at least get him started. And it's a very
financially viable company.
MR. STUART: Don't we have a problem even before we
get into the financing? Isn't it difficult for a
start-up business to get through the development
bureaucracy, the red tape that goes on there? Don't we
have a step that people who are not even interested in
the financial incentives have to go through because of --
because of the red tape there?
Is there anybody -- is there anybody that I or
someone could pick up the phone at the county and say, "I
have this problem. Can you help me get through this?"
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES~ FL 33962
59
Other than you four.
MR. CONSTANTINE= Definitely any one of us four.
But also, you're right, the Land Development Code is very
challenging. A lot of the things with our occupational
licenses and all those. At least three of us own our own
businesses, and it is very challenging to do even the
simple things.
Dick Clark is our active administrator of
Developmental Services and has streamlined some of them.
He's only been in there four or five months, but he's
been able to streamline some of those activities.
He has suggested -- we have a Land Development Code
that's probably close to two inches thick -- and he has
suggested that we can at least cut that in half by Just
going through common sense, which I tend to believe. We
Just approved our changes to the Land Development Code
last night at a public hearing.
And as I went through those two weeks ago, some of
the changes were minimal, but -- the item itself -- we
were changing words within a particular -- within
different items. The items themselves, I was wondering,
why is government even involved in these? Because we
were doing exactly as you said, simply making it more
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
6O
difficult. I think that's, along with any incentives,
that's the key to not only keeping their businesses, but
bringing in businesses is simplifying the process.
MR. VOLPE~ I agree. I think we do a much better
job than most in terms of streamlining the permitting
process. Probably you all have your horror story to tell
about how long it's taken you to get a simple building
permit and that sort of thing.
But what has happe~sd here is you've got a Board of
County Commissioners that's looking at doing something as
it relates to economic development. You've got the
Economic Develogment Council, you've got the Naples area
Chamber of Commerce, you've got Golden Gate Chamber of
Commerce, you've got all of these different organizations
who are on their own mission trying do the same thing.
And there is no central clearinghouse through which my
client says, okay. Who do I talk to to get all of the
answers that I need, whether it has to do with
permitting, whether it has to do with economic
incentives. There is no clearinghouse.
And so what we've done is, the Board, is we have at
least tried the provide the leadership to bring together
a sort of a central clearinghouse, one number that you
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
61
call, at some point that's where we'll be at. So you
don't end up having to talk to the Economic Development,
House of Chamber of Commerce, the Development Services,
Board of County Commissioners. You find one entity that
someone can at least channel you and get you in the right
direction. That will go a long way. I think Jim can
address that.
MR. COLETTA: Thank you. Jim Coletta for the
record I also am President the Golden Gate Chamber of
Commerce. And when it comes to small business, I
consider myself an authority. I got a small business. I
might not be small, but my business is.
I think in this county -- now I'm not blaming you
as commissioners -- in this county if a small business
succeeds, it's not because of the county government, it's
in spite of it. We kind of -- most people aren't too
sympathetic for business. Regrettably, we're in the
profit motive thing; we're trying to make a profit.
Meanwhile, we pay the majority of the taxes.
collect six percent sales tax all month long, which I get
no reimbursement for, I turn it over to the State. It's
more than I can ever make in one month's time. I'm glad
to do it, but that's one of the many things.
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62
I also pay a personal property tax on the equipment
that I own; it's astronomical. It's the kind of money if
I still had, I could afford to raise my employees' wages
up to a much higher level, but that money's gone to the
county. I'm not skimming it off.
My wife, she works for a living, she brings home a
pay check; it makes all the difference. But what I'm
trying to get across to you is I'm not getting rich at
what I'm doing. I have ~o pay a tremendous number of
taxes, I have to live with ordinances and rules and laws
that are sometimes oppressive.
We were Just talking about the permitting
procedure. Now, I'm in the rental equipment business. I
deal with contractors all day long. Every one of them
that I talked to said, "Don't get a permit. You Just go
ahead and do what you want to do. It's not worth the
trouble they're going to put you through."
I want to tell you something. I don't trust
anybody out there, so I went for the permit. I started
four and a half months ago, I got my permit today. We
just started the reconstruction. I appreciate the fact
that it only took four and a half months, but the thing
is, that if I wasn't a little bit better prepared, if I
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
63
didn't have my wife working, if I didn't have the
resources I got, I would have died along the way.
And I employ six people who take home a paycheck
from me. There's thousands of other ones out there Just
like me. Now, if you didn't stop to do something for us,
do such things as take a look at that sign ordinance that
we got, it's so restricted that we can't have people find
our business. A lot of people here in Golden Gate --
I've been here now for eight years -- still don't know
where Golden Gate Rental is.
I have to advertise in the telephone book,
half-page adds, I pay eight hundred some dollars a month
for that. Tremendous amount of advertising, and I still
got people coming up to me because I can't get the right
kinds of signs across.
I think you're going in the right direction in a
lot of things as far as the beautification, requiring
certain types of setbacks and all that. But take a
little bit of common sense into some of these things.
Don't get so carried away with some of these rules and
regulations to the point that you stifle us.
The chance of any one of us making it past the
first year is only one out of three. In five years'
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
64
time, there's only one of us left. The end of ten years,
the chance of any one business being here in ten years is
extremely remote. So keep all this in mind.
You're missing the mark on some of the things~ a
lot of things you're doing right. The problem we're
dealing with here is bureaucracy. That Just can't be
helged. It's in place. Trying to get around it is
difficulty.
What we're doing with the chamber, we're taking one
step forward. We have our own Economic Development
Committee out there trying to attract business. I don't
know if we'll be successful, but I guarantee you we're u9
and running, waiting for you. We'll work with you. Just
as soon as you got your act together, we'll bring ours in
with you.
But we are going to try to bring the right kind of
businesses into Golden Gate. We're being very selective
what we bring in, and we'll keep you abreast what we plan
to do. But we're taking action on your own. Thank you.
MR. CONSTANTINE= I a99reciate the fact the Golden
Gate Chamber has formed this past year the Economic
Development Committee. However, I take a little
exception of the fact that "We need to get our act
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
65
together," that "we are doing nothing at thie point,"
because I don't think that's the case.
We can certainly do more, and we can certainly
improve on what we're doing, but I don't know that we're
doing nothing at this point. We will gladly work with
the Golden Gate Chamber in any effort along those lines.
MR. KLOUS: Richard Klous. I Just go along with
Jim. I've been in business here for 25 years. And in
construction just out in Golden Gate Estates -- Just one
little point, which is why I'm here tonight -- the
interpretation of the law or the rules that have to do
with getting a permit. And we have now on the corner
lots, which is a big issue right now, the people are
trying to build houses, and there'e an interpretation of
the law that lets a person of an acre and a half have
buildable 60 feet, or 54 feet, excuse me. And a person
that bass 180 foot on the corner in Golden Gate Estates
can only build 45 feet.
Now, I read the law, the other people read the law,
and the interpretation I think is wrong. But that'e what
the interpretation is we have now. So I think it would
be good if we direct the people that -- let's make a
correct interpretation. Let's eimplify it so there isn't
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
66
two or three interpretations of the same law.
MR. CONSTANTINE= I've had a chance to talk to
Richard about this. That's absolutely right, it doesn't
make any sense if you have the corner lot you're, in
effect, penalized, and you may actually have more acreage
but have less space to be developed on. So that's
something we need to -- that Governmental Services should
get clarified. Hopefully administratively~ if not, the
Board needs to take action on that.
MR. STUART: Does anyone else have any questions,
comments, on economic development issues? If not, let's
go on the Community Center Expansion. The Golden Gate
Community Center is about to be expanded shortly. I
don't know whether you want to talk about that, Tim, or
have Sandy or someone.
MR. CONSTANTINE= Why don't I start and then I
think we may even have something here Tom can tell us a
little bit about, and he may even have some diagrams and
all here.
MR. STUART= Great.
MR. CONSTANTINE= For those of you who don't know,
we're looking at expanding the Community Center. We're
at about 10,000 square feet right now, but we're looking
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
67
at adding an additional 15,000 square feet over here on
the west side of the building. It will have a
gymnasium/theater combo, if you will. It'll have a full
stage area and all.
A little more workable, I guess, than this one from
a production standpoint. We'll have bleachers that will
be located on the side. But Sandy, I think we still have
them in the plans that they will be movable so we can use
them either on the back wall or the side walls or
whatever is appropriate for each individual event.
Obviously there is a need for more meeting rooms.
You can come in any given night and virtually every room
in the Community Center right now is being used every
night, and I think of this as the perfect example. We
hear about impact fees, and it's frustrating if you're
building a place to spend impact fees. And the catch
phrase is always "growth paying for growth."
This is a nice things~ is the community of Golden
Gate has outgrown this facility at its current size.
Growth is going to pay for growth~ the impact fees are
paying for the additional space. And the special taxing
district that has paid for this initial building will
only pay for the maintenance and upkeep on just the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
68
initial portion.
And impact fees and the general fund will pay
for -- impacts fee, will pay for construction and the
general funds will pay for the maintenance on the new
buildings.
Tom can you give some of the details there and has
some sketches here. We'll take a look at them.
MR. CONDERCODE= I don't know if I can add a whole
lot of detail to what C~missioner Constantine did. He
summarized it up pretty well in terms of square footage
and types of facilities that are going to be added. The
schedule for the project is to begin construction this
fall and have the facility open. The target date right
now is March in the spring of 1995.
So it's on a fast track and definitely is a much
needed facility, and we're anxious Just to get it under
way.
MR. VOLPE~ Just a thought. I mentioned I've been
a resident of this area since 1980, and the entrepreneur
told me a long time ago that someone should build a movie
theater in Golden Gate and charge something less than $7
or $6. And you know, I think Commissioner Constantine
may have struck on it.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
69
This is probably larger than most of the Cobb
Theaters that I've ever been in. And as a part of what
we're trying to do for our young people, this probably --
this hall gets used less for these purposes, but maybe
the county could undertake some sort of program as a part
of our -- to have some sort of our parks and recreation
to have some evening movies for the young people in
Golden Gate and Golden Gate Estates, charge them
something less than $7. Close to home, not too far away,
and we can really provide -- we're always looking for
some nice things to do for our young people. And again,
I don't know what it would take.
Mr. Condercoad, Office of Capital Projects, maybe
as part of the program, maybe we need a big screen here
that we could use, but I think it would be wonderful for
this community to have a movie theater, and I don't think
we'd be treading on 18-screen megathon. We'll charge two
dollars.
MRS. MATTHEWS= That's an easy project.
MR. STUART: We had a question.
MR. HENNING: For the record my name is Tom
Henning. I commend the commissioners approving the
expansion of the -- our center here~ it's greatly needed.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
7O
The State has done a very good job of filling it.
I do have a concern of construction that we might
be deterring activities that do take place at the center;
during the construotion they might not be able to do
whatever they do. I Just hope that doesn't come to where
people have to go somewhere else for their activities.
Maybe we could possibly expand the construction to
accommodate the people.
MR. CONDERCODE= Currently the plan is to build in
two phases; we'll build the addition, open it up, and
come back into this facility and do the renovation. So
we don't intend to stop the operation of that facility
except for maybe a few days during the transmission from
one phase to another.
MR. STUART: Is there any way that activities such
as Frontier Days to be accommodated at this location
during the construction?
HR. CONDERCODE: That's, from what I understand,
that's the large part of what's driving our schedule at
this point, so it won't interfere with any of those
annual events like Frontier Days and some of the other
activities that Golden Gate has.
HR. STUART= So you're aware of the Frontier Days
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
71
coming?
MR. CONDERCODE= Yes.
MR. STUART= Question back here.
MR. RUBLE: My name is Leo Ruble, I've been
passionate in the last eight years how these matters have
worked. And when I use my hands is what not I'm known
for, and my granddaughter, she seen me for the first
time, and she admitted. But what I'm wondering about is
we have to have a lot of expense for lighting. And I'm
wondering, will there be a lot of lighting for the stage
things in the project?
MR. CONDERCODE= Unfortunately, I can't speak to
the specifics of the lighting and the stage lighting at
this point.
MR. Ruble: You take that into consideration, we'd
appreciate it.
MR. CONDERCODE: I see Sandy coming forward. She
may be able to give you a few more of the specifics on
that.
SANDY: I think there's about $20,000 in the budget
right now for some stage lighting. But also, the people
at History have made an offer of some assistance with it.
MR. CONSTANTINE: The hope was that we can make
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
72
regular basis.
being History.
can --
that staging attractive enough to actually have perhaps
community theaters and those type things on a more
We only need one or two items a year, one
And with that money in those things we
MRS. WEGNER= I'm in favor of this expansion, but
with all the talk about the overhead, I mean, the incline
to get onto 1-75 and off, I Just hope the architects have
thought of how strong it has to be in order to counteract
the noise that all that ~raffi¢ will make.
When you build overheads, like over churches, like
some of you suggested here earlier, you really have to
91an for heavy ceilings and traffic. And some of these
churches, like in another city I was in, they've had to
be much more aware of overheads because these overheads
have come real close to the churches. They make too much
noise on Sunday, and you can't hear the sermon.
MR. CONSTANTINE= Mr. Condercode, I assume our
architecture technology takes all those thoughts into
consideration.
MR. CONDERCODE= Yes.
MR. STUART: We are Just about out of time. We
should probably address one final issue and that is the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
73
landfill.
My recollection is that the Board had directed
additional study of the landfill and where to -- and how
to better handle solid waste in the future. Please
confirm to us that the landfill expansion that has been
previously proposed is not only dead, but good and dead.
MR. CONSTANTINE: I spoke to the Golden Gate Civic
Association about a week and a half ago, and in what I
dubbed the State of the Gate Address, they talked about
different issues that had been going on or are going on
in Golden Gate. And I said the one of which I am
probably the most proud is the fact that last year the
Board stated very clearly they had no intention to expand
that landfill, and I think that's still the intention of
the Board.
There's nobody Jumping up here. We've been pretty
clear on that. One of the things we're trying to do, we
are required to have a certain number of life years left
in a particular landfill or to have alternative ways that
we're going to get rid of our waste. So we're trying to
make sure -- we're down to about seven years if we
continue to do things the way we have been doing them.
So we're looking at -- and we have some firms doing
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
presentation for the Board -- as to how to best use the
land that is still available under the original footprint
at that landfill, and that may be through more recycling
and some composting or any number of things. And they
will present those to us.
So we may get a couple of years, maybe five or six
or seven, eight years longer than the seven years. We'll
wait and see what the presentations come back before we
assign a number of years. But we don't expand that at
all to the additional land that went to the north. I
think the Board has been very clear; I don't think
there's any chance of argument. And the other thing,
odor control.
MR. NORRIS= Separately, we've also got some people
working on the odor control system for the landfill, the
present landfill, which if it turns out to be successful,
should go a long ways towards making that landfill pretty
much invisible if there's no odor associated, rather,
very little odor associated with it. Most people won't
even know it's there, which would be a blessing, I think.
So this is a separate item than the one
Commissioner Constantine was talking about, for looking
at alternative technologies to maximize the landfill
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
property that we now own.
Separately, we're working on something that'll take
care of the odor control for the future. But he's
correct, we have stated on a couple of occasions as a
Board, and I believe it was unanimous, that we don't
intend to expand to the other portion of the landfill
property that was designated that we, the county, does
own. I assume that we're, as a show of good faith, what
we should probably do is put that back on the market and
resell it.
MS. HUGHES: How about a major regional park
avoiding faulty ramps?
MR. VOLPE: Well, we've satisfied all of the
conditions of the Growth Management Plan that relates to
regional park. We've got a 57 acre parcel of grounds out
in Im~okalee Road to be developed at a later point in
time. I prefer to sell the money and put it in the bank
and use it for some other purpose. But that's the ground
that -- or leave it Just as green space and maybe we can
all let you walk out there, Commissioners Norris. And
the rest of us get the odor control and Just go out there
and have, commune with nature.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I had one last comment to
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
76
make with reference to the Tourist Development Tax. When
that was passed, the majority of tourists voted it and
it's illegal. Some attorneys want to make some money for
themselves and they're pursuing this thing. I give the
Board credit for standing your ground and wanting to
latch onto that $5 million because there may be only a
couple people they encourage to try to get some money
back, but they would be the ones who reap the benefits.
And so we should stand b~ our Board of Commissioners and
tell those attorneys, particularly if they live in
Collier County, they should be ashamed of themselves and
we ought to run them out of town.
MR. VOLPE: There're a couple of us that -- in this
room -- who try to make a living practicing law, but your
point's well made.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER= I think they solicited the
customer rather than the customer soliciting them.
MR. VOLPE: But so far we're ahead. So far we're
ahead, and I think we're probably going to end up on the
right side of that issue. There's a whole long story
about all of that, but hopefully what will happen is
that -- just as what's happened so far, that $5 million
is going to come back to the community. We haven't
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
77
cheated anyone out of anything. I think that I'm the
only member of the Board -- were we all sitting together
when I came to the remedial legislation?
MR. NORRIS: Yes.
MS. HUGHES: Not the remedial.
MR. VOLPE: We've been -- the attorneys on the
Board, with the help our own County Attorney's Office,
have been rather creative in trying to outfox the other
attorneys.
MS. JENKINS: Hi. My name is Barbara Jenkins, and
I just have one question about the landfill. I'm very
happy it's not the standard. But I -- when we talked
about that at the workshop, there was discussions that
the landfill life would last seven years. And I've been
to some meetings lately, and I've heard 20 years, the
last one Mr. Lorenz talked about maybe with the new
technology, it will last 50 years.
And I'm a little concerned that if we go higher
with the cells and they're talking -- one firm talked 155
feet. That concerns me a lot because I don't know what
effect would have on Golden Gate being the gateway of the
community.
MR. CONSTANTINE: That was one proposal. I haven't
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
78
heard the 50 years~ that's new to me. I've heard some
projections of 50 and some of 20.
MS. BETTY HUGHES= I heard 30 today.
MR. CONSTANTINE= I suppose we'll hear all kinds of
things. We won't really know until we get the proposals
officially presented to the Board, and then it becomes a
point of dollars versus the community. We may think it's
all right to go an extra ten years if that means an extra
20 feet on each cell.
When you get to 155 feet, where are you going to be
able to see from? What's that do to the neighborhood?
What's that do to the community? Those are all valid
questions.
So I think we need to balance that out; we'll crack
it right now, but they're all Just projections or
proposals or what have you. So we'll need to listen to
all of those carefully and make a decision.
MR. NORRIS: That's all I'd like to see. I think
we should Just wait now. We're close enough to getting
an answer. Rather than sitting here and speculate that
it's going to be 150 feet or 500 feet tall, and it's
going to be here for the next 2,000 years, why don't we
Just wait at this point and Just see what the different
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
79
proposals are from the different firms, and then we'll
know. We don't have to guess, is it going to last 10
years? Is it going to last 20 years? Is it going to
last 30? We won't have to guess~ we'll have a firm bid
quote on all these items. So I think that's what we
should do at this point and Just wait.
MR. CONSTANTINE: I think I speak for the whole
Board when I thank you all for coming and I thank you all
for having us here. I ~hink it's important that we get
out and communicate, not only tell you what's going on,
but make sure we know what's going on in your mind. Make
sure we know what the community wants because that's how
we can best serve you.
Thanks a lot.
(Meeting concluded at 9:17 p.m.)
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
There being no further business for the Good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by Order of the Chair - Time: 9:17 P.N.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/BX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DIST~]~%CTS UNDER iTS
CONTROy
TI~ ~HAIRMAN
Page
8O
STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF COLLIER )
I, Terri L. Schultz, Deputy Official Court
Reporter, do hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings
were taken before me at the date and place as stated in the
caption hereto on Page I hereors that the foregoing
computer-assisted transcription, consisting of pages numbered
2 through 79, inclusive, is a true record of my Stenograph
notes taken at said proceedings.
Dated this 8th day of June, 1994.
Deputy Official Court Reporter
20th Judicial Circuit
STATE OF FLORIDA
COUNTY OF COLLIER
The f~or_~egoing certificate was acknowledged before me this
~ day of June, 1994, by Terri L. Schultz, who
is personally known to me.
State of Florida at Large
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962