BCC Minutes 10/06/1994 J (w/Lee BCC and Charlotte BCC)Lee County, Collier County, Charlotte County
Commission Meeting.
ORIGINAL
1
Lion's Club.
Bonita Springs
9:30 am.
October 6, 1994
Reported by:
Terri L. Schultz
Official Court Reporter
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MEMBERS PRESENT
T~e County Commissioners
Ray Judah, Chairman
Donald Stilwell, County Administrator
Collier county commissioners
Timothy Constantine, Chairman
Bettye Matthews, Vice Chairman
John Norris
Michael Volpe
Neil Dorrill, County Manager
Charlotte County Commissioners
Max Farrell, Vice Chairman
Vincent J. Arnone, Assistant County Administrator
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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MR. JUDAH: On behalf the Lee County Board of
County Commissioners -- hopefully my colleagues will be
here shortly -- I'd like to extend a warm welcome to the
Charlotte County Commission and the Collier County
Commission.
I'm Jay Judah; I'm chairman of Lee County Board of
Commissioners. We certainly wish to thank the Lions for
allowing us to take part in this meeting today in their
wonderful host facility.
We have an agenda here before us, and it's really a
rather historic meeting. Lee County and Collier County
have, for several years now, been meeting on a fairly
regular basis to discuss issues of mutual concern.
I really thank Bettye Matthews, Commissioner of
Collier County, and Richard Leonard for recently getting
together and suggesting that we ought to really try to
pursue a tri-county coalition and start to have these
meetings with Charlotte County in addition to Collier and
Lee. And I'm appreciative of Vice Chairman, Max Farrell
for being here representing Charlotte County.
We do have a scheduled agenda, and we're going to
start off -- do we have someone here for the invocation,
if not, perhaps Reverend Jim Yeager, the county attorney,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
could give the invocation, and then we'll pledge
allegiance.
Jim, good morning.
MR. YEAGER: Please stand and bow your heads.
(Invocation given by Jim Yeager, followed by the
pledge of allegiance.)
MR. JUDAH: Thank you. Dennis Gilkey, current
president of the Bonita Springs area Chamber of Commerce
has some opening remarks. Good morning, Dennis.
MR. GILKEY: Good morning. And as of last Friday,
I'm immediate past president of the Bonita Chamber of
Commerce.
MR. CONSTANTINE:
MR. JUDAH:
president?
MR. GILKEY:
MR. JUDAH:
MR. GILKEY:
We'll put you on the spot here.
He smiles as he says that.
You will be introducing the new
Yes, I will.
Okay.
But I would like to welcome you here.
You've had two very successful meetings over the last 12
months, both Lee and Collier County. I hope we see some
more representation from our Lee County colleagues. You
look very lonely over there.
MR. JUDAN: Me, too.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
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MR. GILKEY: But you have had some very important
items on your agenda over the past two meetings, and it's
good to see that the staff in both counties have been
working together over the last 12 months to really move
some things forward on planning and infrastructure and
service issues.
You have a good agenda today to discuss,
particularly, Lovers Key, to keep that moving, and road
projects north and south and Bonita Beach Road.
Other issues, of course, that you have gotten
together on in the past include the Florida's tenth
university and Florida Gulf Coast, which I don't know if
there's any today that you want to discuss, but it
certainly would be nice if we could see coalition to try
to involve the permitting problems and see if we can hold
that approval up for the tenth university to get going.
Also, I think from the standpoint of the recent
issues with the Department of Community Affairs with Lee
County -- I don't know if that's a commonality of the
other counties, but certainly that seems to be something
that is a recurring issue of the hydro -- the three
county area of problems of how to deal with the State and
telling us how to do growth management plans.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
339~2
But I do welcome you here. I'm glad you're meeting
here in Bonita Springs. I hope you have a very
productive meeting, and I hope it's every bit as
successful or more so than we've had over the last 12
months.
I would like to introduce Skip Lapolla, who as of
October 1, is the Chamber of Commerce, Bonita Springs,
current president of this coming fiscal year. Skip.
MR. JUDAH: Good morning, Skip.
MR. LAPOLLA: Good morning. I'd like to just echo
Dennis' comments. But during our recent annual
breakfast, we adopted the theme, "Building on success,"
and I think those words are extremely true today. So I
thank you for your participation, and good luck to you in
deliberations.
MR. JUDAH: Thank you, Skip; congratulations.
What I would like to do is have the respective
county administers introduce themselves, and perhaps the
department heads that are with them providing support for
today's meeting. If we could start with either one of
you gentlemen.
MR. STILWELL: What's his name there. My name is
Donald Stilwell, and I'm the county administor in Lee
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
County.
MR. ARNONE: Please don't pay any attention to the
sign; I'm not Thomas W. Frame. My name is Vince Arnone;
I'm assistant county administrator. I'm here
representing Tom in Charlotte County.
MR. JUDAH: Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Morning, Mr. Chairman. I'm Neil
Dorrill; I'm the county administer from Collier County.
In addition, I'd like to introduce Bill Hargett, who's
the assistance county administer. And we have the first
team here all of the county division administrators; if
you all would just raise your hands. They're here.
I told them that they had to stay at least in the
first hour, even if they didn't have anything on the
agenda. So if they begin to slip out after that, they
have been allowed in advance. We're delighted to be
here.
MR. JUDAH: We thank you, gentleman. And all
sincerely, a warm welcome to the general public for
taking the time to be here at this meeting.
We'll go ahead and start with the first item on the
agenda, and it's the update of the north-south
connectors. We're going to start with Lee/Collier County
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
items directly. We had tried to do this so we could
afford opportunity for any Charlotte County Commissioners
perhaps, being a further distance away from this
locations, an opportunity to get here, but we'll go ahead
and start.
George, did you want to start with of the
presentation, or did you have Scott?
MR. CRAWFORD: Scott.
MR. GILBERTSON: Scott Gilbertson from Lee County
DOT. Good morning.
We've been working with two corridors for the
north-south roadways to relieve U.S. 41 and 1-75 in the
Bonita Springs area, one on either side of the
interstate. The one on the west side has received most
of the study today, and basically it's to provide some
type of connection from Livingston Extension in Collier
County on up to the Three Oaks Parkway area up by
Corkscrew Road in Lee County.
We've had a couple public meetings already and a
couple other meetings with the CRA and the Chamber
representatives to look at some of the alternatives. And
those meetings have led to other alternatives, and right
now we've got about nine different alternatives under
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
consideration.
Most of those deal with alternatives between Bonita
Beach Road and East Terry Street of how to best fit an
alignment through. If you're all well aware, that's
a rather heavy development residential established
neighborhood. Such a major roadway's going to be pretty
disruptive to that neighborhood, and we're trying to look
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at ways in routes to minimize that disruption.
Some considerations are to stop the multi-laning
facility in the Bonita Beach Road area, and then provide
a number of two-lane, collector-type roadways through the
residential area to sort of diffuse the traffic out and
get it in out past the Terry Street area where it would
join in with another four-lane arterial and carry on up
to Corkscrew.
Some individuals pointed out, well, that disrupts a
lot of the neighborhood by moving traffic throughout the
whole neighborhood. You're better off concentrating it
all in one area, and more or less sacrificing that area.
There's a number of philosophical issues to pursue and
discuss and evaluate. That's what we're looking at.
We're going to have another meeting this coming
Monday, October lOth, at 7:00 o'clock at the elementary
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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school in Bonita Springs to further present the
additional alternatives we're considering and collect
additional more public input.
After that, we hope to evaluate all the comments
we've got, cost analysis on all of it, the disruption and
assessment on all of it, and present that then to the Lee
County Board at one of their management planning
workshops, perhaps in November, but more realistically
probably in December where further direction and perhaps
a selection of the preferred alternative of alignment.
There is no funds budgeted for right-of-way
acquisition nor for construction, but there is
development picking up in the vacant areas north of
there, so that's why we're trying to get an alignment
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identified so we can put those developers on notice of
what the future plans are, and hopefully we can work
together to get a positive situation out of it.
On the east side of the interstate, we're calling
it, for lack of a better term, Treeline Extension. Now
that the university has been finally site-selected to be
up there in the Corkscrew/Alico Road area, it's the only
additional transportation corridors to serve that plus
the expansion of the airport, and at the same time to
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
relieve 1-75 or needed over on the east side.
A lot of that is, of course, wetlands area and
strong environmental issues that will have to be
addressed, and we're looking at probably a lot longer
time to address that.
This past Monday at the Lee County Management
Planning Committee, we passed out a proposed schedule,
which was endorsed. I passed that out around the table,
and I've got some additional copies here, which I'll
leave on the chair if anybody's interested, they can pick
it up. Basically what it calls for is between March and
April of next year, we'll, as part of the Metropolitan
Planning Organization Planning 2020 Update, we'll be
working in with that and testing the feasibility and
desirability of the Treeline Extension.
Then later on in the year on maybe June, we'll be
starting to identify various alignment alternatives for
that corridor and doing various analysis to see cost and
environmental impacts, traffic impacts, and that type of
stuff, and then by midyear, we'll start consulting with
other departments, agencies, Collier County, on the
various areas of pros and cons of the alternatives, and
then throughout the summer, we'll start collecting the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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input from specific groups in residential areas and other
interests; get their input and put all that together by
early fall or so then to go back to our Commission with
our recommendations at that time.
That's sort of a basic summary of where we're at
with the north-south corridor studies in the Bonita
Beach/Bonita Springs area. If there's any questions,
I'll be glad to try and answer them.
MR. JUDAH: Commissioner Bettye Matthews.
MS. MATTHEWS: Yes, on the Treeline Extension
coming south from Corkscrew to Bonita, in your vision,
what northbound road from Collier County would tie in
with that?
MR. GILBERTSON: Primarily, we're looking at
Livingston.
MS. MATTHEWS: Livingston Road would tie in with
it?
MR. GILBERTSON: Right.
MS. MATTHEWS: I believe -- my thinking on that is,
Mr. Dorrill, aren't we supposed to take a -- isn't the
current planning for that road to go to Bonita Beach and
eventually from Lee County to Terry at this point?
MR. DORRILL: That's my understanding.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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MR. JUDAH: Wouldn't Livingston go to -- I thought
that was going to connect -- was that going to connect to
Treeline, Scott?
MR. VOLPE: I thought it was 951.
MS. MATTHEWS: Yeah. We've got some confusion.
That's what I thought.
MR. GILBERTSON: Oh, Treeline, I'm sorry.
Woodland, I guess they're calling it.
MS. MATTHEWS: The Woodlands?
MR. GILBERTSON: Yeah. It's over on the eastern
side of the Park Place. That one then would be looking
at that general area and trying to incorporate maybe
Bonita Grand into that or --
MS. MATTHEWS: Well, the Woodlands is on the --
would have Logan Boulevard extended, which at this point
is not planned at all.
MR. GILBERTSON: It's shown as a connection to
Collier County and the Lee County plan and the 2020, 2010
plan.
MS. MATTHEWS: So I guess, Mr. Dorrill, there is a
westward jog on 951 extended; is that eventually the road
that we're talking about?
MR. DORRILL: It's what I will call a sort of a
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
long S-curve. I don't know whether it goes on
easternbound to the Woodland's DRI or not. But, in fact,
the -- there is a developer who's doing some preliminary
design of a master subdivision plane in that area. I
happen to know about it because I got a call from a civil
engineer who has to schedule the meeting this fall with
the staff in order to coordinate that.
MS. MATTHEWS: So right now the vision is 951 would
connect with Treeline?
MR. DORRILL: S-type curve back towards the
northwest from where 951 curves against Im~okalee Road.
MS. MATTHEWS: I'm just wondering where the
north-south connectors are, because certainly if Treeline
is going be the road that takes us to the university, I'd
certainly like Collier County to have good access to it
as well.
MR. GILBERTSON: We'll have a coordination. That's
part of what the 20/20 update will be over. The next
five to six months we'll be looking at those different
alternatives and modeling how the traffic works with
those types of combinations.
MS. MATTHEWS: I'm Just wanting to keep straight
which north-south roads are planning to come together.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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MR. JUDAH: By the way, as an advantage to the
general public, the County Commission on the 19th, Lee
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County Commission on the 19th will be discussing the
approach roads to the university and whether we ought to
prohibit billboards on those approach roads, such as
Treeline coming up from Bonita Springs and Collier
County, hopefully there'll be some people in attendance
that are interested in regulating visual blight in the
community. Just thought I'd put that plug in.
MR. VOLPE: We'd be happy to share with you our
sign ordinance.
MR. JUDAH: Pardon me?
MR. VOLPE: We'd be happy to share with you our
sign ordinance, which as I recall does prohibit
billboards.
MR. JUDAH: Prohibits billboards, wonderful.
MR. VOLPE: Yeah. We have an excellent sign
ordinance that was adopted by the Board of County
Commissioners, I believe it's about two years ago now,
and it may be something that your staff may wish to look
at and compare that ordinance with whatever the existing
ordinances are in Lee County.
MR. JUDAH: Thank you, Commissioner Volpe. If I
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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can get a copy of that, I'd appreciated it. Thank you.
Any other questions of Scott Gilbertson? Thank you
very much, Scott. Appreciate particularly the schedule
of Treeline Extension, and thank you, Bonita Springs
Chamber for bringing it the attention of both Collier and
Lee Commission? I think we're on track now.
The next item on the agenda is the Schedule for
Bonita Beach Road Phase II. George Crawford, director of
Lee County DOT.
MR. CRAWFORD: Good morning. For the record my
name is George Crawford, director of Lee County
Department of Transportation. I want to give -- I don't
think Charlotte County is too concerned about the Bonita
Beach Road, but I hope they share a little bit of our joy
at being able to get this thing eventually under way.
For Collier County for the Commission's
information, we have slipped the schedule lightly for a
very good reason. The State of Florida Is starting a
project on the other end of the beach, on the other end
of the Fort Myers Beach and San Carlos widening.
And we did not want to start this project during
that same time and go through a hurricane season.
Murphy's Law would suggest that if we have both ends of
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
the beach are under construction that we'll have a
hurricane.
I've been around long enough -- I'm almost as old
as Murphy -- to understand that. So what we've done is
phase this project so that we can start part of it early,
but parts that can buttoned up in case we have a
hurricane so that we can evacuate the beach areas
successfully, so that's what this schedule is based on.
George is very familiar with it. George -- the
other George that you have as your DOT director, or as we
call ourselves the George squares -- is very much aware
of this and understands our concern about trying to do
heavy construction on both ends of a sterile island, that
could prevent some problems.
Based on that, we do have the design completed. We
do have the permits in place. We will have all of the
right-of-ways, hopefully by January of next year. We
will advertise for bids in November of this year, and
probably complete that process in December.
We will then tell the contractor that he will be
able to ahead and bid in three phases, not three jobs,
but three phases. The first phase starting in February
'95 to February '96 will be the completion of the Fish
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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Trap Bay Bridge. Now, that bridge can be done and in
case of a problem, we can get things clear and get the
bridge open to two lanes and successfully evacuate
anybody that we have to evacuate. That will be the first
phase. Then Phase 2 will follow in February of '96.
Phase 3 will follow in July of '96.
Phase 2 is to construct the four-lane divided
highway from the west of Fish Trap Bay to Forester Road.
That's on the, what I'll call, the west end.
And then on Phase 3, we will be constructing the
road from the to east of Fish Trap Road to Vanderbilt,
which is slightly east of Vanderbilt Intersection.
We're still on the estimated construction cost of
9,600,000. This is a joint venture of the two counties.
We've worked very smoothly with Collier County staff.
This project has gone as well as any project could go.
The two staffs have worked closely together, and we
should be proceeding just on the same basis; we should
have no difficulty meeting this schedule.
MR. JUDAH: Any questions of George Crawford?
MR. VOLPE: I have two questions.
MR. JUDAH: Mr. Volpe.
MR. VOLPE: What's the status of the relocation of
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
the utilities along that corridor?
MR. CRAWFORD: I believe -- George, correct me --
that all the utilities are moved as I -- there are some
to be moved yet, Saeed?
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MR. KAZEMI: This is Saeed Kazemi from Lee County
Department of Transportation. It's going to be part of
Phase 1, relocation of all the utility will be part of
Phase 1, which will be --
MR. CONSTANTINE: I think we need to use the
microphone.
MR. JUDAH: Saeed, repeat what you said so we can
catch it in the mike.
MR. KAZEMI: The relocation of the utility will be
part of the original contract and will be done in Phase
1, which will be bridge construction, utility
relocations, and the storm water drainage.
MR. VOLPE: The utilities relocation in Phase 1 is
going to extend to Vanderbilt Drive?
MR. CRAWFORD: I'm sorry.
MR. VOLPE: Is the entire relocation of those
utilities, will be handled in Phase 17
MR. KAZEMI: Yes, sir.
MR. VOLPE: The second question: Does the design
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
i III IIII III II II III I III IIIII II I I II ~ I ~ .....
of the four-laning of Bonita Beach Road include the
alternative for median beautification and continuation of
what exists to the east?
MR. CRAWFORD: There's no --
MR. KAZEMI: Designers hopefully will have the
designs of the beautification of the medians, but for the
construction, no; the 9.6 million doesn't include
beautification.
MR. CRAWFORD: We will be doing the design of the
beautification.
MR. KAZEMI: It's already done.
MR. CRAWFORD: It is done now?
MR. KAZEMI: It's already done.
MR. CRAWFORD: I wasn't sure that it was completed.
MR. JUDAH: It's a matter of nine million dollars
for the landscaping material.
MR. VOLPE: Do you have a cost estimate as to the
median beautification that's been designed?
MR. KAZEMI: It's $250,000 for beauti --
irrigations and beautifications.
MR. VOLPE: Thank you.
MR. KAZEMI: For the record my name was Saeed
Kazemi.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MR. JUDAH: Thank you, Saeed. George, just a quick
clarification. We are going to have a sidewalk/bicycle
path across the Fish Trap Bay Bridge?
MR. CRAWFORD: That is correct.
MR. JUDAH: Okay.
MR. CRAWFORD: Combination, sidewalk/bike path.
MR. JUDAH: Any other questions for George
Crawford? Thank you very much, George, for your
presentation.
MR. CRAWFORD: Thank you.
MR. JUDAH: The next item is the Discussion of
Lovers Key. Bill Hammond, are you going to be making
that presentation? Assistant County Administer, or is
that Deputy County Administor?
MR. HAMMOND: Deputy.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Vice.
MR. HAMMOND: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to
give you a little bit of update on where we are with the
Lovers Key/Black Island issue with the State of Florida;
on the 17th of this month we'll go to Tallahassee, we'll
take some staff, we'll sit down with DEP and go back over
some of the deal points that we had discussed with them
in August.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
They brought a staff down, they brought some of the
regional people down and met with our people, and we had
some good conversation. We did and on-site tour with
Fran Manielli, who's the director of DEP and/or the Parks
and Recreation section of it.
And I think that we're all pretty well in agreement
as to what can take place as far as using the tourist
dollar/tax dollars for the first phase of the park
project. And Elaine McGlaughlin, who is the director of
the TDC and visitor convection; she will also attend this
meeting, and I think we're very close to at least being
able to bring something back to our Board and some deal
points.
MR. JUDAH: Any questions --
MR. HAMMOND: If there are any other questions I
can answer.
MR. JUDAH: -- of Bill Hammond as to regional
facility?
MR. VOLPE: Is there funding secured in the
1994/1995 state budget for Lovers Key?
MR. HAMMOND: They have funding, only a $500,000
funding. They had been -- they had requested 2.5
million, and that had been cut to $500,000. So they're
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
very limited to the dollars that they have right now.
They are going to reply, and next year they may
come up with the additional funding. What we had
suggested to them was, that by Lee County participating
financially that they could go ahead and complete Phase
1, and we could at that time begin to phase out the Carl
Johnson Park Side, and because -- we do have some ongoing
problems, especially with the boardwalk that they have.
We've done some improvements on the boardwalk, but it is
going to take about a million dollars to do some things
with the boardwalk itself, because it is about 20 years
old.
So we're very encouraged by the State saying that
they would do some redesigns and create a different
boardwalk to the Carl Johnson Park Side, provide tram
facility to get people to and from the area, and that
they could go ahead with the Phase 1 part of the project.
So we're very encouraged with that. We're very
encouraged that Elaine and her people and the TDC is very
interested in supporting that phase financially, and
that's where the majority of that money will come from.
They are still going to request dollars from the
State, and we'll see where that comes and how that
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
developments over the next couple years.
Any other questions, Mr. Chairman?
MR. JUDAH: Okay. Thank you very much, Bill;
appreciate the effort.
The next item referred to, Commissioner Bettye
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Matthews, discussion of tri-county partnership on issues
coming before the legislature.
MS. MATTHEWS: Yes. Our Board has talked about
this in discussion a couple of times and has indicated
that conceptually, it seemed like it might be a good
idea. And subsequent to that, I've asked Mr. Judah,
Chairman Judah, and Chairman Leonard to join us at
Chairman Judah's office, and we discussed it.
And again, the three of us thought it was a good
idea. So I took it upon myself to put together a sort of
proposal as to why we would want to do this and how it
might work, along with the proposed calendar of how the
weeks might rotate.
The reason for wanting to do this would be to try
to form a coalition between the three counties to have a
better influence on, number one, how the pie gets sliced
in Tallahassee when the budget work is done and make
every effort to be there when that pie gets sliced, so we
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
can try and get a larger slice of it and to try to be as
organized in this effort as Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach
County are. They do get a lot of attention, and they get
a lot of attention because they're there when this
happens.
A tertiary reason for wanting to move in this
direction came to my mind when I realized that we were
going to be looking at at least two freshman
representatives in Tallahassee this coming legislative
season, and it was my thought that perhaps, we too could
learn along with them what we need to do to help them
complete their work and their efforts in any way that we
can help them.
Part of the project involves meeting with
legislative delegation in December. The legislative
delegation comes to each of our counties now, and I
believe Lee County, you have a formal meeting the
delegation?
MR. JUDAH: One is to be set up this winter.
MS. MATTHEWS: Collier County Commission does not
have a formal meeting with the legislative delegation per
se. They do come, the delegation uses the boardroom,
but they meet with the public, and we don't have any
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
formal meeting with them.
Another item that was discussed in the meeting
between myself and the chairmen from the two other
counties, was that we have a tri-county commission
meeting with the entire delegation for all three
counties. That would have input -- what did we count
that up to, Ray; about 26 delegation members?
MR. JUDAH: That sounds --
MS. MATTHEWS: It was a large number.
MR. JUDAH: Yeah, it was. That sounds about right.
MS. MATTHEWS: Yeah, it was a large number. And
that would be 26 Senators and representatives that we
could begin to have impact on almost right away.
How it would work; I guess to get it started you'd
draw straws. But the information that Chairman Leonard
brought forward, because he has done some lobbying
efforts through the FAC, he brought forward the idea that
we need to cover more than the 60-day legislative
session, that we need to cover January as well. That's
when the committee work is done, and most of the
decisions to move bills forward are done in January, so
we need to start covering that at that point. So I
enlarged my scope to cover January, February, and March
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
and did some quick estimating on costs and so forth.
And I'm seeing a cost per county of less than
$3,000 to cover all three months. Sounds really
reasonable to me for the benefit that it could derive.
In addition to that, I've been contacted by the Collier
County School Board. They would like to join in this
effort, and I believe both Chairman Judah and Chairman
Leonard indicated that their school boards also would
like to join in this effort.
So it's beginning to look to me like we have all of
Southwest Florida wanting to push together to bring this
to a point so that we can have more influence on what
happens to us coming down from Tallahassee and the state
government. We're always complaining about they make us
do things, but sometimes it's because we haven't said we
don't want to do it before they pass the law. That's
what the effort is.
MR. JUDAH: Thank you, Commissioner Matthews. Don,
let me ask you: I think you're working with Commissioner
Albion on scheduling the meeting between the Lee County
Commission and our legislative delegation. Do you have a
date; has that date been set yet?
MR. STILWELL: It has not been set.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MR. JUDAH: I would think that we're looking at
sometime in November and I don't know. It's always
difficult just to get our own legislative delegation to
meet with us. It's going to be, obviously, doubly
7
difficult to get all the delegation and all the county
commissions. And if we can, that would be wonderful, but
I don't know if we can do that this fall, this winter.
Anyway, we're going to go ahead and proceed with the
meeting with our delegation. Certainly, representatives
from Collier and Charlotte are welcome to that meeting.
I don't know if we can facilitate this year, the entire
meeting.
MS. MATTHEWS: Yeah. That might be difficult;
notice is somewhat short. So it might be really
difficult to put that together. But certainly as we move
forward in the years to come, if we venture into this, I
think that it would be good if all three counties joined
with their entire delegation to --
MR. JUDAH: Let me say that I think you're
definitely on to something positive, and I say that out
of recent experience. And I know you Commissioners
certainly know the political power that Florida
Association of Counties can muster when they're all
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
29
focussed on one or two issues, and I think was reflected
on recent imminent domain reform that occurred last
legislative session. It was primarily because that was
one of the number one issues that was brought to light by
the Florida Association of Counties.
And I know it helped to have a number of county
Commissioners actually meet with the various chairmen, in
this case the House Transportation Committee and the
Senate Transportation Committee, in advance of the
legislative session. You're absolutely right; a lot of
it's taken care of well before the session commences.
So I'd be very interested in exploring this idea.
I know Lee County, of course, has a lobbyist under
contract, and we also receive funds from the
municipalities to have Paul Pillar lobbying on your
behalf in municipalities. But quite clearly, it's very
important to actually have commissioners present in
Tallahassee. So if I could maybe generate some
discussion on this issue.
MR. VOLPE: I think the concept, Commissioner
Matthews, is an excellent one, obviously it's going to
take some time. It's taken some time Just to get us to
the point where we're able to meet in these joint
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
sessions. So I think the concept should be pursued. I'd
like to pursue with Commission Judah. Lee County's
arrangement with their paid lobbyist; you have a paid
lobbyist under contract?
MR. JUDAH: Yes, sir.
MR. VOLPE: What's the annual funding for the
lobbyist?
MR. JUDAH: Don, if you could --
MR. STILWELL: It's either 20 or $25,000 a year.
MR. JUDAH: From Lee County?
MR. STILWELL: Yes.
MR. JUDAH: But there are other funding sources
from Sanibel, Cape Coral.
MR. STILWELL: Right, and Fort Myers -- well, North
Fort Myers is no longer involved.
MR. JUDAH: Just this past year they dropped out;
they were in before. We can get the total amount to you.
MR. VOLPE: I'm just curious in terms of what
immediately could be done perhaps by Collier County and
how effective you have found the engagement of a paid
lobbyist on behalf of the local issues within your
community, Lee County, and then the municipalities within
Lee County.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MR. JUDAH: I personally felt that he's been --
Paul Pillar's been invaluable because of his knowledge of
Tallahassee and being able to set up appointments and
accompany me personally on various appointments, but also
not so much even just to promote issues that we're trying
to advance in the legislature, but to actually prevent
certain issues from getting on the floor or moving
forward because of being detrimental to the counties.
MR. VOLPE: How long a period of time has Lee
County actually engaged in the services of a lobbyist?
MR. JUDAH: Oh, gosh, I'd say no less than -- at
least five years.
MR. DORRILL: It's been about six years, because
Mr. Pillar -- I'm acquainted with him as former city
manager. He made what amounted to a co-op proposal to
Lee and Collier Counties in the municipalities at that
time about six years ago. We elected not to participate.
He did and has been retained. He has a very good
reputation, not only for those legislative issues, but on
that rare occasion when we seem to be having a dispute
with the DEP in the nonlegislative time, and he's very
helpful in coordinating staff issues and permanent issues
of the DEP or DCA, the other nine months of the year. He
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
has a good reputation in Tallahassee. We're familiar
with him. In Collier County elected not to participated
in that.
MR. VOLPE: Mr. Dorrill, isn't Mr. Pillar the same
person who did the incorporation study for Pelican Bay?
MR. DORRILL: Yes, he is.
MR. VOLPE: So he would be familiar then with some
of the Collier County issues?
MR. DORRILL: He has good working knowledge and
also he's done some work in the City of Naples.
MR. VOLPE: I guess as an interim measure just for
the consideration of my colleagues, depending upon what
issues may be important to our local community, there is
an opportunity through someone whose business it is to
participate in the process in Tallahassee, so that may be
an interim measure as this process of involving the local
elected official begins to evolve.
MR. NORRIS: Yeah. I certainly think it's a great
8
idea to get this in. This is a good start with the three
counties that we have here, if we are able to get this
program moving and find some success in it. I think
there certainly wouldn't be any harm in getting a larger
group of counties together, maybe Manatee and Sarasota
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
and Glades, Hendry, and build a bigger lobbying base for
all of our regional issues. And the real benefit may not
come solely through the issues that are regionally
applied, but if we have a lobbying base that's well known
in Tallahassee over time, than our local individual
county issues can be also lobbied through that same
group, and then we'll be really effective at getting our
local needs taken care of as well as your regional need.
So I think it's an excellent idea, and Commissioner
Matthews is to be commended for bringing the subject up
and getting us started on it.
MR. JUDAH: Mr. Farrell?
MR. FARRELL: I would agree completely with the
philosophy that we need to do these things cooperatively.
In fact, since the first trip I was up in Tallahassee,
the time and money it takes to get up there and back, I
see five counties, eventually, I know you take it a step
at a time. From Manatee to Collier, I think that we have
a great deal in common.
We're fast growing coastal counties and probably
about everything that happens, there's an example of in
one of those five counties. I don't think it's a secret
to anyone. The few large metropolitan areas dominate the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
34
legislature. The only way that I know to overcome that
is for the smaller counties to put together some kind of
a cooperative effort. So I personally am in complete
support of the idea. The only question is how we do it
mechanically.
MR. JUDAH: Okay. To that end, perhaps
Commissioner Matthews logistically and maybe a represent
from each of the Commissions to meet and try to hammer
this out and work out a --
MS. MATTHEWS: I think that's a fine idea. If this
Board doesn't mind, I would provide that service from
this Board. I've done a lot of the groundwork on it, as
you can see from your books with a proposed calendar of
how to cover it and what the cost might be, and so forth.
I would be happy to continue with that, if this Board
agrees to have me do so.
MR. JUDAH: I think --
MS. MATTHEWS: I'm seeing a lot of nodding heads.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Yes.
MR. JUDAH: I think clearly, what I would like to
do, and I think Commissioner Farrell, too, is give us the
opportunity to bring this proposal back to each of our
respective Boards and have a representative meet with you
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
35
and see if we can work out the logistics.
MS. MATTHEWS: I think that sounds fine.
MR. FARRELL: One of the things we'd like to try,
we've got so many things going. We have trouble finding
meeting days. We have had a lot of workshops. Tuesday's
agenda is just not suitable for some of these things and
you can't spend the time on them, you can't have the
people there that you need.
This year we've just had a whole series of
workshops where we sit around the table like this and
look at each other and talk to each other, and we can
spend a couple hours on something if we need to. I think
that might be a good approach for you.
MS. MATTHEWS: That's sound good to workshop it or
if your Board in one of your workshops would like myself
to come up there any day but Tuesday, obviously.
MR. FARRELL: That's what I was thinking. We could
schedule a two hour workshop sometime and you can come up
and meet with us. That would be a great opportunity to
sit around the table, look at each other and talk
philosophy and mechanics.
MS. MATTHEWS: Okay. That sounds fine.
MR. JUDAH: Thank you very much, Commissioner
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
Matthews. Thank you, Commissioner Farrell.
Any other questions or discussion on this issue?
Okay.
The next item is the fractional year assessments
for ad valorem taxes. I asked that this issue be brought
up because it seems that even though we've had Senator
Dudley sponsoring this legislation every year, we seem to
be stymied, ironically enough, by the counties in the Pan
Handle, and there's evidently several property appraisers
in these counties that just don't want to have to utilize
computer systems to be able to keep up with homes that
are built and eventually occupied or certified as
completed.
And as you know the way the tax assessment process
works, you know, after the assessment's done, after
January 1st, someone could go ahead and get a completion
or an occupancy after that date, and they are not --
9
their annual position of not having to be assessed after
that date, but not until the following year.
And what we're trying to do here is actually make
it to -- make it fair as to once an individual's in a
home nearly constructed, certified as completed and
occupied, they are to be assessed at that time, and it
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
can be done. We just need to -- I believe at least
initially, have all three counties sign a joint
resolution and make it available at the annual
legislative meeting of the Florida Association of
Counties, which is the first part of December, I believe,
and make it a legislative priority for next session.
MR. VOLPE: Commissioner Judah, obviously something
that's been talked about for quite a while, I sense that
there is some momentum to eventually get this legislation
passed. As an alternative -- and I need some help from
Mr. Cuyler, if he's still here -- it seems to me that we
had discussed in a little different context the
opportunity for a county to impose a fee for these types
of situations where you have got a structure which has
been completed after the assessment roles have been
closed. It requires an advertisement and an adoption of
the ordinance, but it's like a payment in lieu of a tax.
Can the county do that at this time?
MR. CUYLER: When I talked about that, that has not
been generally done. There has been some discussion that
that is a possibility. The cleanest way, obviously, is
to do it through legislature, as I think you're
proposing. At least one law firm has talked to me about
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
the fact that there should be equivalent to an impact fee
type of situation that you would pay, that would, in
fact, be in lieu of taxes from the time you get your COT,
in fact, are assessed.
MR. VOLPE: I thought Mr. Cuyler, that there was at
least one county that, in fact, one or two counties that
had actually passed legislation that does, in fact,
compose that type of --
MR. CUYLER: I'm not sure of that. I would have to
check on that, but --
MR. VOLPE: It may be something that our respective
staffs may wish to explore in the unlikely event that
this legislation doesn't pass at the upcoming session of
legislation, because I think that there are some
opportunities here where we, as local governmental
officials, can take the opportunity to ensure that
fairness and equity does prevail and that this is
addressed on a local level.
MR. JUDAH: I appreciate hearing about that option.
If I could just hear from Jim Yeager for a second as far
as --
MR. VOLPE: He's shaking his head in the
affirmative.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MR. JUDAH: And maybe anticipated legal challenge.
MR. YEAGER: I'm in the same position.
MR. JUDAH: Jimmy, come up here a second.
MR. YEAGER: I'm basically in the same position
that's been discussed. I believe there may have been
some draft ordinances floating around from some other
counties. I'm not aware that it's actually been like
implemented. Likewise, I'm not sure it's been litigated
yet, but it's a potential out there; something that we
can look into early. They call it a service fee, service
charge, but it's merely an impact fee.
MR. CUYLER: It's been discussed with me by Bob
Navors (phonetic) firm; you know Bob Navors '-
MR. JUDAH: Right.
MR. CUYLER: -- works with us at the State
Association of Counties. They may be able to give us
additional information if you're interested.
MR. JUDAH: I appreciate you're bringing up that
option. Commissioner Norris?
MR. NORRIS: Commissioner Judah, I think I
understood you to stay that the resistance has come from
some of the smaller counties?
MR. JUDAH: Right.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MR. NORRIS: Up in Florgia (phonetic)?
MR. JUDAH: Right.
MR. NORRIS: Would it be possible to draft a
legislation in such a way that a county would have the
option of applying it either way?
MR. JUDAH: I don't know. Either attorney?
Interesting concept.
MR. NORRIS: That way that should quill the
critisism or the resistance they have in the smaller
counties.
MR. CUYLER: I think you probably could. I want to
take a look as to whether one county would be able to
claim that -- or the residents would be able to claim
that they're being treated unfairly as a result of
another county's ability to opt out of that type of
legislation, but perhaps you could do that. Certainly if
you can do it on the individual county basis that we just
discussed --
MR. JUDAH: Yeah.
MR. CUYLER: -- that same argument arises, so
perhaps you could set up legislation so the counties
could opt out if they don't have the computer systems or
don't want to pay the money to have one.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
41
MR. NORRIS: Or for any other reason they don't
want to join the program. Could we have someone ask that
question to the legislature somehow?
MR. JUDAH: I'd be happy to do that.
MR. NORRIS: We could get a determination on that.
Attorney General's Office perhaps?
MR. JUDAH: Certainly. How do both Commissions
feel though about a joint resolution at this time though,
supporting the --
MR. NORRIS: Absolutely.
MR. JUDAH: -- fractional year assessments
legislation? We can have our staff draft a resolution
for purview?
MR. CONSTANTINE: Yes.
MR. JUDAH: Commission Constantine. Well, that
would be great. I really appreciate the support. And
certainly the addition that you just suggested,
10
Commissioner Volpe, we definitely want to pursue that.
MR. VOLPE: Sure, we got to get bold and innovative
and go ahead and be one of the first counties in the
State of Florida to have done it and let them all
challenge Lee or Collier.
MR. NORRIS: Then we can give it all back after the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
lawsuits are over.
MS. MATTHEWS: Wait a minute now. We don't want to
be on the leading edge of innovation, do we?
MR. FARRELL: We've discussed this at various
times. I think this is a favorite project of Chairman
Leonard. He's talked about this ever since he's been in
politics. We could go as long as 18 months without any
contributions. I think -- probably the one that could
really build up front. And I can't speak for four other
people, but if we had some kind of a resolution in front
of us, we could put it on the agenda. I think it would
get support from Charlotte County.
MR. JUDAH: That would be great. County
administrators and county attorneys can get together,
come up with a resolution through county commissioners
and county commissions.
MR. STILWELL: Sure.
MR. JUDAH: It needs to be done fairly quickly
because that legislative, annual legislative meeting is,
I believe, the first week of December, as of Florida
Association of Counties. Thank you very much.
Proposed legislation increased citizen protection;
again, the incompetent or dishonest contractors.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
43
MS. MATTHEWS: This is like apple pie and
motherhood, isn't it?
MR. CLARK: Dick Clark from Collier County
Community Development. We have a common problem; one
that's been recognized for several years. I've had the
pleasure of working with Charlotte County and Lee County
and a lot of other counties with their enforcement
agencies for contractor licensing.
We all share a common problem, and that is the
distinguished -- the differences between the state
certified contractor and the local licensed contractor.
Let me give a little bit of background.
The state certified contractor is one that obtains
the license from the State of Florida and is a is
as it applies, it's statewide jurisdiction.
The local license is one that's obtained through
the local Jurisdiction to the county or city, and they
take the required test for competency and have the
required insurance and so forth.
The difference between the two reasons licenses is
dramatical and it's important in this regard: The
state -- the first state statutes prohibit local
jurisdiction from taking licenses from state certified
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
contractors. In other words, you cannot take the
license. The most you can do, any of us can do, is
restrict their building permit privileges; that's all you
can do.
So what happens -- we've had recently and
several -- in the past several years, we've had a series
of fraudulent activities. In fact, of some of them, one
of them in particular after two and a half years of
investigation and pushing the effort towards the state,
because they're state certified. They generally are when
you have a pattern of fraudulent behavior. They're
generally state certified, and they can go from one
county to the other.
In other words, if we take them from Collier
County, which we oftentimes do, they can come to Lee
County and rip off Lee County citizens to -- in fact, one
of them did for the tune of several million dollars. And
what happened is, obviously, the air-conditioning fraud
cases, they misrepresent -- in fact they usually get in
on a misrepresentation, saying the air-conditioner is
faulty is in some regard, and they have a service
contract, a very low service contract, so they can get
into the house and develop a little bit of trust, and
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
then they misrepresent or sabotage, in some instances.
We have had -- we've video taped with our
investigators fraud in this action, while it's being
done. And they've taken the disciplinary action that
we're limited to do by taking the permit privileges away
and referring them to the state for additional action.
It oftentimes takes two, two and a half years for
any activity to take place at the state; not because the
state license investigators are incompetent; they're
extremely good. There are two of them that are in Fort
Myers for a nine-county area. And now, they're also
being asked to also investigate interior designers,
engineers, pilots, auctioneers, and land surveyors. They
have thousands of complaints per year.
Their inability to actively pursue and bring to the
just conclusion those kinds of complaints are subjecting
our citizens in each of our counties to many repetitious
acts of fraud and victimization.
Some of these are extremely sad cases where you see
widows and widowers who should be -- should be allowed to
rely on the competence of licensed people, being ripped
off and sometimes for all of their savings; that's
happened many times.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
I've identified somewhat of the problem. The
11
limitations I've also identified a little bit. The -- on
a local licensed contractor, if, in fact, they commit
some act of fraud or even a contract violation, we,
collectively or individually, can take their licenses
away. In other words, they're out of business.
The state prohibits us from taking their license,
even in our county; we cannot take their license away a
say, "You're no longer licensed to do business." We can
say, "You can't hold permits." That has some effect
certainly, but if somebody else pulls the permit, another
contractor, they can work out of a subcontractor because
they're not required to hold a permit.
The proposed legislation -- there has been some
proposed legislation. In fact, in the state statutes --
state statutes for several years has allowed a deterrent
in one regard. We call them disposable qualifiers or
disposable license holders. A contractor, a developer or
a corporation and the air-conditioning contractors got
very savvy of this and did it.
If your county would take their permit privileges
away or ours would take their permit privileges away,
they would get rid of that qualifier, hire another one,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
business goes on as usual. Several million dollars worth
of victimization occurred in your counties and ours as a
result of that, the disposable qualifier. In other
words, you can only deal with the qualifier.
Several years ago the state passed legislation
saying that they can also have the authority to deal with
the principles of corporation. In other words, the
officers, directors, and so forth of the corporation,
they can keep them from getting back in business again by
hiring other qualifiers and Just repeating the same
seams.
Up until two years ago when the air-conditioning --
almost three years ago now, the air-conditioning scam
that we collectively, your investigators and our
investigators, pushed the state very diligently on, up
until that point, they had never exercised that, they had
never prosecuted, they had never restrained any officers
of any corporation ever, although they've got the
authority.
so basically not what I'm saying is that the state
is bad, what I'm stating that something we always have
known, all of us have individually have know, closer to
the problem that you keep a solution, the more effective
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
48
it is.
In other words, if we delegate to the state that
which controls our citizens, the less control we have,
the less effective it will be. And the same if we
delegate to the federal government, those of us, and we
collectively and individually see the victims, see what
happens. The poor widows, the poor people who are
victimized and left holding the bag and left with a minus
of life savings due to these acts, we see, they are our
citizens. They are our neighbors. And so we are very
involved to try to correct these problems. But our hands
are tied somewhat by the legislation, the current
legislation.
In your -- the state, after we've asked for several
years, has proposed some legislation that would be
curative in some regard, and they proposed a bill, and
I'll quote from the bill,
"In addition, a local Jurisdiction which
has disciplinary control over locally
licensed contractors which has been
determined to be adequate..."
In other words, we have adequate enforcement in local
boards, "Adequate pursuant to," state statute 489,117(2),
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
shall;
"Have the authority to conduct
disciplinary proceedings against state
certified contractors and issue an order
levying a fine not to exceed $5,000 and/or
restitution."
That's a big one.
"The fines shall be paid to and retained
by the local Jurisdiction. The local
jurisdiction enforcement body shall also
recommend a penalty for board action,"
which means the state.
"The recommended penalty may include a
recommendation for no further action, a
similar action, or a recommendation for
suspension, revocation, or probation of the
certification,"
the license.
What I'm suggesting is that we collectively or
individually may want to petition the State. And the
state recognizes the problem. To be frank with you, I
don't think they're putting adequate resources into it.
They keep adding new licenses, licenses or requirements,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
and you still have the same two investigators to a
nine-county area, and now they're doing auctioneers and
everything else. They're on the telephone; they don't
have the ability to go out and investigate, they don't
have the time. The State does state,
"The legislature recognizes that the
construction and home improvement, which
may pose a danger of significant harm to
the public when incompetent or dishonest
contractors provide unsafe, unstable, or
short bids products of services; therefore, it's
12
necessary in the interest of public health,
safety, and welfare to regulate the
construction industry."
We hardly agree, all of us do, because we have
investigative functions in our county and cities.
The problem is, the state and this current
legislation is tying our hands, so we cannot be
effective. I'm suggesting that we maybe want to
individually and collectively petition the state to give
us more authority to regulate those incompetent,
dishonest contractors. By enlarge, the vast majority of
our contractors are extremely knowledgeable, very
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
reputable, and they live in our community.
The most disreputable ones we're finding by far,
are the ones we have the least control over; those of the
county, those come in counties and cities and victimize
our citizens and leave, and that's the people we have the
least control over. Thank you.
MR. NORRIS: Commissioner Judah?
MR. JUDAH: Yes.
MR. NORRIS: This sounds like a great project for
our fledgling intercounty lobbying group that we've
formed this morning.
MR. JUDAH: I agree. I'm wondering -- let me just
ask real quickly. Have you all had an opportunity to
meet with the Building Industry Association? Like you
said, there's a lot of certain competent, responsible
contractors out there, but unfortunately, there's an
unlevel playing field. i would think the responsible
ones would want to support this effort.
MR. CLARK: That's correct, sir. They're very much
in favor of this. In fact, our Contractor Licensing
Boards are comprised of, as you stated, local licensed
contractors who are not hesitant at all about cleaning up
their industry. They don't want that image, nor do they
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
want our citizens victimized. They're very supportive of
it.
MR. JUDAH: And also any sponsors that you're aware
of in the legislature for this amendment?
MR. CLARK: I'm not sure who the original sponsor
was, but it's been three years now, and we're still not
getting it through there. It's been proposed for three
years.
MR. JUDAH: Commissioner Volpe.
MR. VOLPE: Mr. Clark, two questions. Number one,
a state licensed contractor who's performing work in
Collier County, is he required to obtain any type of
local license?
MR. CLARK: Just the occupational license, sir, and
not even that. In fact, if he has home office in Lee
County and then comes to Collier County doing work, he's
not required to have that.
MR. VOLPE: Okay. Well, as an alternative, perhaps
there may be the opportunity for anyone who performs work
within a local jurisdiction would be required to obtain a
local license to perform that work in addition in the
state certification.
MR. CLARK: I wish that were true, and it's an
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER CO~TY, NAPLES, FL 33962
53
excellent suggestion. We have desired that and expressed
that desire. There is an expressed prohibition in the
state statutes that says counties and local jurisdictions
cannot require additional legislation or -- excuse me,
licensors. So they tie our hands in many instances.
MR. VOLPE: That answers the first question then.
The second question is: With the State of Florida, there
have been at least -- there's at least one instance where
the state has delegated the enforcement provisions as it
relates to small quantity generators, hazardous waste.
And it actually funded local positions in order to
enforce the provisions of the state statutes. Has the
alternative been explored? That -- I don't know how many
dollars are in the state's budget for this particular
department or this enforcement.
MR. CLARK: That's the ideal scenario, Commissioner
Volpe. And we have -- three years ago when the fraud
activity came about and through the citizen's complaints
and through Mr. Dorrill's efforts, a great deal of
publicity was generated about the problem in the media.
And the response from the state was, Well, gee, maybe we
can. In fact, we've got a lot of activity. They came
down from Tallahassee, and well, perhaps we can delegate
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER CO~|TY, NAPLES, FL 33962
to the counties. But to be frank with you, the heat is
down, and they've knocked on that. So that would be an
ideal solution.
MR. VOLPE: Just as an alternative the actual
amendment here, perhaps I'm not sure how that delegation
does occur, whether it occurs as a result of special
legislation or whether it comes about through some sort
of an administrative order, that the delegation can
occur. But we are -- and maybe you're doing it in Lee
County, but we have at least, Mr. Dorrill, nine employees
in our Pollution Control Department whose positions are
funding in part by the State?
MR. DORRILL: Through agreements with DEP.
MR. VOLPE: Are are you doing something similar?
MR. JUDAH: With regards to the small waste
generators, we Just recently approved occupational
license fee increases to be able to provide for an
educational program. We have a facilities where they can
take their --
MR. VOLPE: We can give you the repealer for that
13
if you -- just in case you need to have that.
MS. MATTHEWS: You may need to take from several
meetings to cover that.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MR. CLARK: We would like to -- obviously, I think
we all would like to have the solution closest to the
problem, because the further we remove it, the less
effective it is. I'll be glad to look into that, and
Commission Volpe's suggestion, I'm just passing
information along to see if there's support for the
group.
MR. JUDAH: I think clearly the area needs to be
addressed. I wouldn't see any opposition by our county
Commission. I can't speak for them today, but I would
like to pursue moving forward with, working out whatever
means necessary to promote the amendment to legislation.
MR. CLARK: Okay.
MR. FARRELL: Mr. Chairman.
MR. JUDAH: Commissioner Farrell.
MR. FARRELL: We've had three general contractors
that have gone out of business in the last 60 to 90 days.
I Just opened the paper this morning, and the third one
was there. And I don't know how many have finished out
to the effect, but that's become a very sensitive issue
in the county. And our Building Department has initiated
meetings to two groups; they've already had a workshop
with the builders and subcontractors. Most the people
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
there were subcontractors there, by the way, not the
public, and they're being taken for large amounts of
money. You'll find a lot of support among them, and
numerically and politically, they're the larger group.
And I sat through that two or three hours one
night; I heard a lot of interesting ideas. I don't know
whether a recommendation will come out of that group or
not, but their second meeting now being set up with
financial people to pluck in the banks and the people
that are lending them money to control this.
So that between here and Charlotte County, it will
be just right to support this. The present system just
isn't working; I think there's a general recognition of
that. It isn't protecting the public, and it's not
protecting the subcontractors. And I think you'd find a
lot of support for tightening this up if somebody can
come up with something that's a realistic answer to it.
MR. JUDAH: Well, this needs to definitely be
advanced to the Florida Association of Counties. I would
suggest that perhaps get a resolution set up for all
three Commissioners, all three Commissions to propose an
amendment to the statute, and let's shoot it up to the
legislative meeting this December.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MS. MATTHEWS: There's a Board meeting for the FAC,
I believe in November, early November. We may want to
bring it before the Board of Directors.
MR. JUDAH: Excellent idea.
MR. NORRIS: This is really only a common sense
deal. The state is actually interfering with our ability
to protect our citizens, and we need to point it out to
them and then go ahead and make the corrected
legislation. I don't see why anyone would really object
to this, but we just need to point it out to them
probably.
MR. JUDAH: Nell, as far as putting together a
joint resolution?
MR. DORRILL: Since we have taken the lead on this,
we can. In response to Commissioner Norris, I would
think that it's a tough nut to crack, would be the
Florida Homeowners Association in the associated lobby,
and that is there that controls the state and general
contractors license. That might be a former adversary
force, but we can draft some legislation and submit it to
Florida Association of Counties, Board of Directors,
perhaps that can be incorporated into their legislature.
MR. JUD~{: Great. Thank you. Thank you,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
Mr. Clark.
The next item is statewide mandatory boaters
operating license program. The reason I brought this up
is, I know in Lee County we've got an excess of 30,000
registered boaters. We've clearly had problems with out
on the water with personal water craft, jet skis, motor
boats, not only effecting Manatees, but also effecting
wildlife in general as well as public hazard to other
people on the water.
And what I'm hopeful of is getting support from all
three counties to send a Joint resolution for Association
of Counties to make this a priority to implement a
statewide boater education program. Ideally, I'd to see
kind of like a driver's license for boaters, but I don't
think that's doable, but certainly it appears that a
mandatory boater education program is -- I know the
Marine Trade (Sic) Association supports it. The industry
seems to support it. It got close last legislative
session; I'd like to see another push, and I was hoping
we'd get support from the three counties.
MS. MATTHEWS: Well, you're looking for an
educational program --
MR. JUDAH: Boater educational program.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MS. MATTHEWS: -- that the operator of the boat
would have to -- would be required to take --
MR. JUDAH: Right. And --
MS. MATTHEWS: -- a program similar to the Coast
Guard?
MR. JUDAH: Coast Guard, auxiliary, power squad. I
mean, those programs are already set up, it's just a
matter of making certain they at least go through an
14
education course before they're out on the water. I
mean, it's just scary out there.
MR. NORRIS: You're agenda item is titled,
"Statewide mandatory boaters operating license program,"
but you're saying that you don't really want a license as
much as you do the educational program?
MR. JUDAH: The reality is that I'd be happy if we
can get just an educator program, education program.
MR. DORRILL: Do you have an affiliated Marine
Trade Association in Lee County and have they taken a
position --
MR. JUDAH: Yeah. A local chapter, yes, and they
support it.
MR. DORRILL: And likewise, the various hotels and
beach side resorts concessions that are --
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MR. JUDAH: I haven't checked with them, Neil. In
fact, I would submit that the statewide Marine Trade
Association supports the legislation.
MR. NORRIS: Would you envision this as being a
classroom type educational process, or perhaps a --
similar to a lot of the professional continuing
educations where you have a correspondence type?
MR. JUDAH: I envisioned classroom.
MS. MATTHEWS: How would we handle resort guests
who want to rent a catamaran or jet skis or what have
you? I mean, they've come from Ohio and they're at the
hotel, and the hotel rents equipment. What you're
talking about, it would require those people to go
through this course before they can rent it.
MR. JUDAH: That would not be feasible, I don't
believe. And that does present a problem. But what I'm
referring to are those that actually are registering
their boats.
MS. MATTHEWS: So you're envisioning this for boat
owners?
MR. JUDAH: Yes.
MS. MATTHEWS: Okay.
MR. JUDAH: It would be nice, Commissioner
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
61
Matthews, obviously, if there was some requirement and
ability of those that rent out those boats, insuring that
those who do rent the boats, go through --
MS. MATTHEWS: It might be one step at a time that
we need to address.
MR. JUDAH: Right.
MR. DORRILL: I was in Wyoming, Idaho last spring
for vacation and rented a snowmobile and told them I was
from Florida. And they said, "Here. Put this crash
helmet on for this, and we want your Visa Card imprint in
order to guarantee the machine is returned." That's how
they handle it for snowmobiles for people from Florida.
MR. JUDAH: A lot of confidence.
MR. VOLPE: So we'll give them a just a life
jacket, is that it, and take their Visa?
MR. JUDAH: If we're able to circulate a draft
resolution to respective counties, to Charlotte and
Collier, concerning a boater education program?
MS. MATTHEWS: I think it wouldn't be bad to see
the actual wording for a boater education program for
boat owners. '
MR. JUDAH: Right.
MS. MATTHEWS: I'm Just not sure how we could work
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
with the hotel guests and resort guests.
Fa~. JUDAH: One step at a time, like you mentioned.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Yes.
MR. JUDAH: Thank you.
MR. FARRELL: I think we might be ready to go
beyond education. We have a Marine Advisory Board; in my
opinion, it's the best Advisory Board we have. We have
the good towel on it, and maybe one of the reasons that
works a little better, they pretty much screen and choose
their own members.
We get to pass on them, but they pretty much
operate by themselves. They just prepared an ordinance
of speed limits in the canals, and they worked on that
for four years before they were satisfied with it and
brought it to the Commission.
We rely very heavily them. I attend their meetings
with some regularity, and I believe they'd be a good
booster of this. And I think that's the place where we
would go with this, particularly, to give it to them, and
get their input, and we rely very heavily on their
recommendations.
MR. JUDAN: Is that with Wil Shefton (phonetic)?
Is Wil involved?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MR. FARRELL: He's a member; he's a member of that.
He attends meetings, advisory. A fellow by the name of
Homer Smith is now the chairman of that, but you can
communicate through Mr. Shefton.
MR. JUDAH: What I'll do then, if it's all right,
I'll work with our local chapter, Marine Trade
Association, to have help with the wording of the
resolution and circulate it to the representative
Commissioners.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Yes.
MR. JUDAN: Thank you. The other items, let's just
forego that. I'll be happy if we can just get the boater
education program moving forward.
What I'd like to do, fellow Commissioners, is
afford an opportunity for the general public to comment.
But before they do, I wanted to introduce to you
Mr. Holly Botchford, who is the director of the Southwest
Florida Food Bank. Mr. Botchford is here to explain to
particularly Charlotte and Collier County Commissioners,
the food bank's involvement in the distribution of food
to the needy, in I think a five or six county area; and
with that, Mr. Botchford.
MR. BOTCHFORD: Thank you, Commissioner. This is
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
an honor to be your guest today. Today I could come
before you to talk about the thousands of hungry children
15
in the State of Florida, because surely they exist. I
could tell you stories of families that have never asked
for anything in their lives, but because of life
circumstances today, they must stand in line and bare
their soles to get enough to eat and to feed their
families.
I could also tell you of the children that have
told me personally that they're glad to be back in
school, not because they see their friends, not because
they're getting an opportunity to learn and experience
new things, but because at least five days a week, they
get two meals; breakfast and lunch.
Those same children will tell you they don't look
forward to Christmas; Christmas comes at the end of the
month. First of all, there won't be any gifts there for
them; second of all, they'll be out of school, they won't
be fed at school, and food stamps have run out by then at
the end of the month. Merry Christmas.
No, instead I'm going to bring you a message of
hope and celebration, because recently we embarked on a
new era of serving our less fortunate neighbors in
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
Southwest Florida with the opening of the new home of the
Southwest Florida Food Bank.
Let me going back first and tell you what a food
bank is and how it works, because I'm sure that most
really aren't familiar with food banking, and that's one
of the reasons I'm a here is to just kind of bring you up
to date.
A food bank is a nonprofit organization, which is
the collection, storage and distribution center for
donated food and household products to all agencies in a
given area that serve the hungry. That's to include all
the agencies you're familiar with, such as the Salvation
Armies, the homeless shelters, the youth shelters, soup
kitchens, church, emergency food pantries, any nonprofit
organization that serves the needy at no charge qualifies
to come to the food bank.
The food is distributed free of charge to the
agencies. But they do pay a small service charge on most
of the products, which helps cover the cost of operating
the warehouse.
This is based on the pounds they take out of the
food bank and is currently 14 cents a pound. Their
alternative is to spend $2.10 a pound at the store, which
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
66
is the national retail average.
Our facility is located in Fort Myers. In the past
we had to limit our service to Lee County because our
warehouse just wasn't adequate to extend any additional
services. Three years ago, I began a quest for a new
building.
I'm glad to say that I was successful in bringing
five local foundations, the Southwest Florida Community
Foundation, Foulds Foundation, the Price Foundation, the
Kliest Foundation, and Ganetts Community's Funds,
together with Lee County government and the City of Fort
Myers, to give me a five-year commitment for a total of
$310,000.
This commitment we took to Barnett Bank and
obtained a five-year note to be paid for through these
commitments. And with that money, we were able to locate
a building, which the mortgage is being held by the RTC,
and we were able to work through and purchase that
building, at what many have told us was an excellent,
excellent deal.
Let me add here that these grants that came from
all of these agencies were awarded partly because of
success we demonstrated in Lee County, but also partly
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
because of our express desire to extend our service to
all of Southwest Florida.
We now have approximately 11,000 square feet and
over 32,000 cubic feet of refrigerated space. We have
been able to acquire over $60,000 in gifts and kind to
finish our project, and we've achieved our dream of a
debt-free home to serve nearly 100 agencies in Lee,
Charlotte, Collier, Glades and Hendry counties.
Last year we distributed over 866,000 pounds of
food to agencies in all five counties with the retail
value of $1.8 million. The total cost of the agencies
was less than $75,000. This meant that over $1.7 million
did not have to be spent on food in this area.
This was money that was available to be put back
into the programs to serve the people, and this is what
these agencies are really designed to do.
Obtaining food for distribution in Southwest
Florida is a daily battle. Because we don't have food
manufacturing plants and supermarket warehouses, that's
16
found in other areas of the state, almost everything has
to be shipped in.
Damaged products from supermarkets, known as
salvage, which is free to the Orlando Food Bank from
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
local warehouses, where often it was damaged here,
shipped there. They get it at no cost; well, it costs us
over $1,000 a load to bring it back down here to
Southwest Florida.
After sorting an inspection by staff and our
wonderful volunteers, we often must throw away nearly 30
percent as unfit for human consumption. While we do pick
up surplus from some local sources, it's only a drop in
the bucket when faced with the growing needs of your
community. Food drives are also a local source for
quality goods, but the average collection is often gone
with the day we receive it.
In the coming year from our new facility, we will
easily exceed 1 million pounds of distribution to the
five counties. Our budget is set at about $230,000.
This is to put $2.1 million of product back into
Southwest Florida. That's quite a bang for the buck.
The agencies are expected to contribute about
$84,000 for our budget in services fees for this product,
leaving $146,000.
I'm pleased to report that Lee County government,
City of Fort Myers, the United Way of Lee County and the
Florida Department of Agriculture will meet about 60
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
69
percent of this amount. That still leaves over $58,000
that I need to raise.
If we are to meet our projected goal of
distributing 350,000 pounds of product this year and
700,000 pounds next year, to counties other than Lee, I
need your help.
We need to show at least through minimal support
that the entire area we serve is supporting this
important cost effective work. This will qualify us for
national grants unavailable to us otherwise.
Hunger has no county boundaries. A hungry child in
Charlotte County is just as deserving as one in Lee
County or Collier. Personally, I don't care where they
live. If they have a need and I can help, I'm going to
do it. But the reality is, we must share the burden of
the budget so that one county is not controlling our
success in the other counties.
So I'm here today to ask you to work with me, to
meet with me, so that we can look into this and find the
funding so that we can continue this work into all the
counties and truly become Southwest Florida Food Bank.
I'd be glad to entertain any questions.
MR. JUDAH: Any questions of Holly; Commissioner
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
70
Matthews?
MS. MATTHEWS: Have you spoken with the Board of
Directors for a group in Collier County called Collier
Harvest? I believe they work out of the Mormon's Church.
MR. BOTCHFORD: Tuesday we entertained 11 agencies
from Collier County; that group was one of them. And
also the Phill-A-Belley Organization with us, and they
are part of our organization. Currently -- well, this
past year, we've already distributed over $100,000 pounds
in Collier County.
MS. MATTHEWS: Collier Harvest has a network of
people who collect --
MR. BOTCHFORD: Yes, they do.
MS. MATTHEWS: -- dairy product and bakery products
as well as fruit from grocery stores, and they take it to
different centers.
MR. BOTCHFORD: They're doing an excellent job of
that. And it's something that we're hoping to get
started in Lee and the other counties. They do an
outstanding job. The products they're able to get are
somewhat limited. We're looking and meeting with Collier
County -- and this is going to involve all the counties,
we're looking at the possibility -- because the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
products -- donations are starting to dry up. It's very
hard to get products, and we're still having to go out
and buy.
So we're looking at the opportunity to start a
co-op purchasing program where if all of the agencies,
all 100 agencies, came together and said, Okay. We all
need green beans. We know that. We all buy green beans.
Can you buy us five pallets of green beans and save us 10
cents a can. And that's the type of thing we're looking
at right now.
So you've got some great opportunity in Collier,
but it's still just scratching the surface. And we need
to be delivering, we're talking about in November,
starting to deliver products directly to Immokalee
because of the transportation problems, and we're going
to start doing that.
We are going to be delivering directly into
Charlotte County also to the agencies there because of
delivery problems, because of transportation problems.
It costs money. It costs money to give away food. The
realty is it costs me 24 cents a pound to collect it,
17
warehouse it and redistribute it. That doesn't count
freight and getting it back out into the counties. The
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER CO~4TY, NAPLES, FL 33962
72
agencies pay 14 of that. I've got to find sources for
the other parts of those funds.
MS. MATTHEWS: I guess my questions on that are
because I'm personally aware and have made the trip
myself many times, picking up food at the Publix Grocery
Store -- my own car, my own gasoline, my own time -- and
taking it out to Immokalee and so forth.
There's a network of people who have come together
to provide this service, and I know we always need mor~
volunteers, but I wonder if such a service could be
instituted with the food bank as opposed to the food
going to Orlando, that it comes directly to a warehouse.
MR. BOTCHFORD: Unfortunately, Commissioner, we
live in a day of lawsuits. The grocery stores, for the
most part, are afraid of liability. They also are set up
to where their damaged products, they receive credit for
those from the manufacturers and distributors.
The only way they can receive credit is back at
their main warehouses, unless they can set up a tracking
source here. It just doesn't work.
We do pick up at the stores, but you look at the
products that you were able to pick up and transport, and
I'll almost guarantee that had a lot of breads, you have
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
73
some leftover produce, and that was about it.
MS. MATTHEWS: That's pretty much it, yes. I mean
it's not --
MR. BOTCHFORD: How many Jars of peanut butter did
you pick up, tuna fish, and that type of thing?
MS. MATTHEWS: Yeah. That doesn't spoil, so it's
not on the list.
MR. BOTCHFORD: That's what you have to feed people
with. How many hungry children can be fed on lettuce and
bread? You just can't do this.
MS. MATTHEWS: Not many for very long.
MR. BOTCHFORD: That's right.
MR. JUDAH: Fellow Commissioners, I appreciate your
indulgence in listening to Mr. Botchford, because it's an
issue that we really to come to grips with and I -- I've
experienced it directly with calls to my office from
individuals, you know. We know that many people live
on -- by pay check by pay check. And with tight economic
times, folks getting laid off work, Holly will tell you,
he gets the bulk of his calls late Friday afternoon,
because of domestic violence, you know, mothers with
children out on their own.
Holly really has to take up the slack to take care
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
74
of those that fall through the cracks before they can get
into a program, and that's why his service is so
critical. And I appreciate your listening to his
situation, what he's trying to do to address feeding the
hungry in all five counties.
MR. BOTCHFORD: Thank you, Commissioners.
MS. MATTHEWS: Thank you.
MR. JUDAH: Thank you, Holly. I'd like to afford
an opportunity for the general public to comment. And
the first one that wishes to speak is Teri McCully.
MS. McCULLY: Thank you. I'm Teri McCully,
co-owner and founder of Rooftop Restaurant here in Bonita
Springs. I've been here 22 years and seen a great change
in our community all for the better. And I do realize
the need for roads, wider and bigger.
But there's one thing you Commissioners forget;
you're hurting the business people in this town by doing
all this. You're not giving us a fair break, any
consideration. We have nine months of nothing to do
where we starve to death.
Why couldn't we arrange to have these roads done
then, not during season, starting in February? It kills
us. We thrive on ten weeks of money that comes in; three
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
75
months actually. And that's the time you're going to
open up these roads and tear things up, making life
miserable for the residents and hurting the business
people.
Is there any way I can appeal to you Commissioners
to do something about double shifts? Working late at
night? Early in the morning? We do see your program
perhaps from a years work to nine months; is that
possible? If so, it would be very much appreciated, and
I'm sure I'm not alone in this feeling. I've talked to
other people in the area; a lot of them won't come
forward. But I'm coming forward, I'm asking for your
help, and I hope you'll consider it. Thank you.
MR. JUDAH: Thank you, ma'am. We're going to have
George Crawford respond to the questions you just
mentioned. George.
MR. CRAWFORD: We're very concerned about this
particular situation in Lee County, and I can't speak for
George, but I believe he may also. We are doing what we
call "black base," which means that we are not using --
in critical areas, and are not using rock, we're using
asphalt. With our summer rains, which we just
experienced in last few weeks, we can't get the base
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
dried out, so we're going to the black asphalt, asphalt
base, which once we get -- once we put that on top of
dried out, then we're home free. We don't have to keep
putting lifts of rooks in and waiting for it to dry.
However, one of the problems we have is that some
projects just can't be completed within the time frame
that they were able to complete the bridge that you're
going dedicate today, or ribbon cut today, where we were
able to do it after the season, and as you know, is open
now here in Bonita Springs on Old 41.
That's the kind of planning we're trying do;
however, it's Just impossible on a large project, and
Bonita Beach Road is one of those, to be able to do it in
a six-month time frame.
I believe the gentleman ahead of me talked about
unfortunately we're in a litigious society and we
certainly are. I'll take my general pot shot at lawyers,
as I always do. Hi John Spear.
And we are in litigious society and night work is
extremely dangerous, and to do that almost triples the
cost of trying to do anything because of the problems in
lighting and so forth.
So while we -- there are certain circumstances you
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
77
can do that; most of them you can't. I believe that all
of the agencies, however, are trying to reduce the time
that we have people tied up. I believe the old way is,
we're building a road for you, what are you complaining?
I think that mentality is gone a long time ago. I
think everybody's concerned about the business community
and what we're doing to it when we do tie the road up.
We're trying to do it. We do keep it to a minimum;
however, there are certain projects that just take longer
than necessary. Bonita Beach Road, for instance. If you
remember, when we relocated the utilities this last year,
they were relocated at night. That's one function that
can done at night, and it was done cooperatively with the
utility company. I believe it had a minimal impact upon
the community, but we Just can't do that everywhere. And
we are sympathetic to the business community and try
where we can to avoid unnecessary, lengthy times in
construction.
MS. McCully: What is the time frame on this
program?
MR. JUDAH: Time frame for Bonita Breach Road?
MS. McCully: How long?
MR. CRAWFORD: The time frame is about, as I
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
remember -- I left my notes over there -- I think it's
about -- I believe it will be into '96 before it's
finished. But we're doing in phases.
The Fish Trap Bay, which is being done in the first
phase, should not materially affect the business
community. It should not materially affect the business
community. That bridge will -- will hold up traffic to
some extent. I can't say that it won't, but it should
not be as devastating as opening up large lengths of
road.
On Bonita Beach Road, we're going to require the
contractor to only build short segments at one time.
We're not going to allow him to tear up the whole road
and then take time to do it.
We're also looking at a constructibility review by
a contractor out of Lee, Collier or Charlotte County to
tell us how he or she feels it can be best constructed.
And this will be by somebcdy who constructs roads but is
not going to be bidding on this project. So we're
looking these kinds of things to try minimize damage to
the business community, both Collier and Lee County
business.
MR. JUDAH: If I could ask, I'm going to ask Ron
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
Telone, who has worked with the county DOT, worked for
the Florida Department of Transportation, is now with the
David Plumber Associates. Perhaps he could shed some
comments and light on the -- or do you have another other
issue to talk about, Ron?
MR. TELONE: No.
MR. CRAWFORD: No.
MR. JUDAH: Another issue; okay. George, thank you
very much.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to add, at
least in Collier County, we have been experimenting with
our nighttime work. And our two most recent road
construction projects do make allowances for the
contractor to work in the evening until approximately,
9:00, 9:30 in the evening, also on Saturday afternoons
and Sunday mornings for that very reason. And we've seen
very good success on the Airport Road six-lane project
where we've made an allowance to do that.
The only other thing I'd like to say is that there
are those of us in Collier County who still feel that you
have the best Sunday brunch in any restaurant in town.
MS. McCully: Thank you.
MR. CRAWFORD: Yeah, Mr. Dorrill, my size will
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
80
attest to that, because I've been in your place many
times.
I want you to know that we're working on a contract
in Fort Myers right now seven days a week, 12 hours a day
the contractor is working. And if you know anything
about sunshine, it's not sunshining, that whole 12 hours.
19
So we are working that contract. That's one that's
scheduled to be open, for your information, probably a
week from Friday, slightly ahead of schedule; that's boy
scout in some of them (Sic). So we are conscious of
that.
MS. McCully: I sure hope so, because we deserve
some consideration as taxpayers and business people.
MR. CRAWFORD: I'll be taking personal attention of
this, because I'm going to get all the telephone calls.
MR. JUDAH: Thank you, George. Ron?
MR. TELONE: Good morning. My name's Ron Telone,
I'm with David Plumber and Associates. Our firm's been
involved in transportation planning in Southwest Florida
for ever 10 years. I want to address the issue related
to the north-south corridors, which is Agenda Item 1.
I wanted to say that I think Lee County is very
wise to be planning for a new north-south corridor on the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
east side of 1-75 as well as on the west side.
We know that there are a number of large property
owners. They're willing to work with the county to
identify future road alignments. So we just would like
to encourage the county to press forward with their
planning for these new road corridors.
MR. JUDAH: Thank you, Ron; appreciate the
comments. Anyone else from the general public? Yes,
John, good morning.
MR. SPEAR: Thank you, Ray. For the record, my
name is John Spear, and I'm co-chairman of the Bonita
Springs Chambers Governmental Affairs Committee.
I didn't Jump up here Just to defend my profession;
I'm used to the pot shots from George in terms of the
attorneys, but blaming the world hunger on attorneys, I
think was going a little bit too far, but we're used to
it.
We'd like to thank you all for coming today. I
know Skip Lapolla, welcomed you, and we appreciate you
coming.
Perhaps our first at -- at first when we heard that
Charlotte County was Joining us, we were a bit concerned
that we were going dilute the discussion of bi-county
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
issues and leave us in a situation where those issues
probably wouldn't get the proper attention they deserved.
From what I can see, that hasn't happened, number one;
and number two, I think in terms of looking at what
you've done here today as a Lee County taxpayer, both
business and as a resident and as a voter, I think it's
important that we recognize that Lee County tax dollars
can also be spent wisely or wasted in terms of bi-county
issues on the north part of our county, and thus our tax
dollars on that end of the county as well. So I'm glad
to see that the Collier County -- that Charlotte County
has joined us.
In terms of the north-south connectors, I would
echo what Mr. Telone said. We've been working
diligently, and I think in the next three or four months,
I think you're going to see some real good work come out
of the private sector in terms doing some of the
preliminary planning for the counties on those
north-south connectors.
One item that I don't think was touched on today
has to do with the widening and improvement of U.S. 41
through North Collier and South Lee County. That's
probably going to be an issue between Lee County and
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
Charlotte County.
There appears to be good progress made, and we'd
like to thank the Commissioners of the two counties for
working with us to push that and push that priority back
into the late part of this century, rather than early or
mid-next century. We'd thank you for that.
And with that, we once again thank you all for
coming. We appreciate you being here. And one final
comment in terms of the food bank; that food bank does
benefit Bonita Springs. The Bonita Assistance Office is
in the next building over there, and that's funded
entirely by local, private, contributions here in Bonita
Springs, and it might be interesting to stick your head
in the door and see what our community based,
nontax-payers supported Assistance Office looks like, and
how it operates.
So with that, we'd like to thank you and hopefully
we're going to be seeing you for lunch. So thanks for
coming.
MR. JUDAH: Thank you, John. Emily Magio. Good
morning.
MS. MAGIO: Good morning. I came a little late, so
I don't know who was here an who left and whatever. My
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
comment is not intended as a derogatory comment against
anyone, but when I came in and I look around and I see
four or five Collier County Commissioners here, I see our
county manager. When I saw the number of our staff here,
I just want them to know how proud I am they showed up,
and I think that's says as much and it's as important as
anything else that was said here today. And I just want
to let them know I'm very proud of all of them. Thank
you.
MR. JUDAH: Thank you, Emily.
I too am very appreciative they showed, supported
by Collier County, and I, at a loss, with regards to Lee
County Commission. But at any rate, there is at least a
representative from Lee and Charlotte here today, and
20
hopefully we can do better next time. Are there my
other -- yes, sir. Good morning.
MR. WILES: Good morning. My name is Carl Wiles,
and a I'm resident of Bonita Springs. And I just want to
make some comments about the north-south corridor
considerations, mainly the Livingston Road/Imperial
Street problem.
Collier County does not have a problem with this
express road, four-laning express road, because they're
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
going through areas that haven't been development, and
they want to put a road through for the department of
residential areas. But when you put a lethal road coming
up to Bonita Beach Road and then proceeding through
residential areas, there is some serious problems for
individuals. And I'm talking about a life and death
situation.
I'll give you an example. When Terry Street was
put in, and you're going through residential areas,
you're going to have to take homes in uproot people.
There was one elderly individual who lost his home in
that project, and it was mainly due to the stress and
strain of negotiating, not the fact that he just was
going to lose his home, but negotiating for a fair
settlement on that home.
And when you talk about a fair settlement on a
home, it can run up to couple years. And it's a very
difficult thing when you're taking residents -- when
you're taking homes from residents and then having to
negotiate, it's a very expensive thing. So that's why I
say, when you come to a cost consideration, I wouldn't
want to be the individual who's going to put a cost
factor on lives.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
Fortunately, there is one alternate consideration.
I appreciate that the county has come out and had two
meetings in the community and there's a third one coming
up Monday. But there is an alternate, which I think does
not take away the -- eliminates the human factors. And
that's on the east side, there's the Power Line
right-of-way. When you come out of Collier County, if
you swing slightly east towards 1-75, you can run that --
through that Bonita residential area on that Power Line
Expressway, and you'll be destroying very, very few
residential communities.
I think Dave Loveline has looked into it; he said
there would be a few homes. But that right-of-way goes
all the way to Terry Street. And if you're looking at
the ultimate, I would look at that right-of-way
continuing down that Power Line, right over 1-75,
connecting with Grand Bonita Boulevard, or whatever's
going to be on the east side, which doesn't have the same
probably with going through residential areas like you do
on the west side, you could continue with local roads
coming from Livingston to Bonita Beach Road, probably
continuing down Imperial Street, all the way to Terry.
From Terry, you can go east and west on East Terry,
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
87
you can go up to the connection of the right-of-way at
the power lines, and you probably can put a local
two-lane road all the way to the Three Oaks Expressway or
the Three Oaks right-of-way that you're talking about.
You can go then west to Old 41, you can develop Old
41 with the possibility of swinging Old 41 through open
areas and not having it dump into 41.
But all I'm saying is there is an alternative. And
I know possibly you're talking more costs, but don't
forget about the human factor, because I think the human
factor is something that is priceless. Thank you.
MR. JUDAH: Thank you, sir. Look forward to that
meeting on Monday night.
MR. WILES: Yes.
MR. JUDAH: Any anyone else from the general public
wish to comment on any issues?
We'll go back to the respective Commissioners, if
you have any final comments, for the good of the order.
MR. NORRIS: Only to thank everyone for
participating. I think the way we've come together as a
group over the last year or so is very healthy for
everyone. I'd just encourage us to continue these, don't
let it slack off. I think we need increase our
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
participation. Keep going forward.
MR. CONSTANTINE: I would echo that. One of the
things that's been very helpful, is this has made a much
more common or easier working environment between the
Commissions. When other issues have come up, I can call
you, or anyone of the Commission for that matter, and
there's a very comfortable give and take that I'm not
sure existed before, and hopefully we can make that three
ways from here on.
MR. VOLPE: Commissioner Judah.
MR. JUDAH: Mr. Volpe.
MR. VOLPE: My six-year term as a member of the
Board of County Commissioners will be coming to an end on
i
November 8th. And I'd like to take the opportunity to
thank you for your work in revitalizing these joint
meetings with Lee and Collier County, with the help and
the encouragement of the Bonita Springs Chamber of
Commerce.
I think we have all experienced that, as
Commissioner Ferrill had commented, that much of what we
are experiencing, we can learn and benefit from the
experiences of some of your counterparts in the Southwest
Region.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
So I want to thank you for the impetus that you've
provided, and I would hope that there will be three
people who are seated to my left, who I'm sure will work
with you and your counterparts to ensure that these kinds
of meetings continue.
One last point that I'd like to share with you, and
that is something that I think we shared together, and
that is the provisions of the Florida statutes that allow
for a counsel of local governmental officials. I've
mentioned that to my colleagues on the Board of County
Commissioners, and the opportunity that that presents for
the various elected representatives within our community
to function as a collective body.
And I would also like to suggest for your
consideration and perhaps the consideration of Mr.
Farrell, Commissioner Farrell from Charlotte County, the
opportunities that that presents for having a designee
from each one of the County Commissions to sit in a
regular ongoing basis during these hiatus where the
Board's are meeting on a quarterly basis. I think it
will provide a formal mechanism with formal agendas so
that we can begin to develop some of those issues. Thank
you.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
90
MS. MATTHEWS: I think that that's a good idea, and
perhaps this effort to influence Tallahassee in local
legislation will be a start in joint efforts between the
tri-counties, and it may very well lead to a counsel of
local government.
MR. JUDAH: I see that evolving into that program.
Commissioner Volpe. I know you've been a strongly
supporting that effort and I do see that materializing.
I also would like to take the time, if I could, to
commend you, after the recent campaign, you being here;
it speaks well of you. You're a quality individual.
You've been deeply committed to helping out Collier and
Southwest area and wish you well in the private sector;
perhaps we'll see you again in the public sector.
Thank you for your involvement with these joint
meetings.
MR. VOLPE: I appreciate that.
THE COURT: Commissioner Farrell.
MR. FARRELL: I thank you for the invitation to be
here, and I consider this Just the first step in the
process, our involvement in the process. I think among
the benefits for all of us, and certainly for me, is the
educational benefits that you receive here just by
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
listening to others.
As I talk to other people around the state and pick
up the newspapers from any place in the country, the
basic problems are rather universal. Sometimes you think
you're home when you look at the headlines in the
newspaper.
The details will be different, but the basic
problem, I think, are vary similar. And the old cliche,
we reinvent the wheel; we do, over and over and over
again. When somebody else is just down the road from
you, they've probably been through the same process, you
can benefit from if you give it an opportunity.
And we won't always agree on everything, but you
don't in a political process. One of the things that
happens sometimes, because you don't agree on one thing,
it falls apart, you don't even try on the next. And I
hope we don't do that, because there's some things that
we just have our own interests in and maybe we don't
agree on, but there are others we will.
I think you have to learn that politic as being
difficult for me, but I'm happy to learn something.
Because you don't agree on one thing, you Just can't
throw everything out; you've got to try everything. Some
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
92
things work, some won't, but we ought to give them all a
try.
Again, thank you for the invitation to participate.
MR. JUDAH: Thank you, Commissioner Farrell.
Before we break, I did want to -- I apologize,
Commissioner.
MR. CONSTANTINE: I was just going to suggest at
the end of most of our agendas, we have set a tentative
date for the next meeting. I was going to suggest that
perhaps rather than waiting six months this time, at the
turn of the year, because there may be new faces on all
the Boards.
THE COURT: That's a good idea.
MR. CONSTANTINE: It might be appropriate to get
together also, particularly with the plan Commissioner
Matthews has put together, perhaps we can put the final
touches on that before the legislative session begins.
MR. JUDAH: That's an excellent suggestion. So
sometime in January?
MR. CONSTANTINE: Yeah.
MR. JUDAH: Is this a suitable location, if the
Lion's Club is willing to host?
MR. VOLPE: We'll have the New Year's decorations.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MR. JUDAH: I understand, Skip, the Bonita Spring
2
Chamber -- that's fine. We need to set a date in
January. We'll have our staff work out the logistics of
the appropriate time and hopefully it will be at this
location if we can work it with the out Lion's Club.
Skip, I understand the Bonita Springs Chamber of
Commerce is hosting a luncheon or involved in a luncheon
for the Commissioners?
MR. APOLLO: I think Robert's got all the
information on that.
MR. JUDAH: Okay. Mr. Belavance (phonetic).
MR. BELAVANCE: It's at twelve noon at the
Shangri-La Resort, which is just south of this place,
and --
MR. JUDAH: I have maps here to give to y'all.
MR. BELAVANCE: Look forward to seeing you.
MR. JUDAH: I appreciate that very much, Bob. And
we do have a ribbon cutting on the Imperial Bridge at
1:30.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Chairman, Just briefly. The
second Thursday in January would be the 12th. We might
just focus on that and staff can try and confirm that;
12th of January of 1995.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MR. JUDAH: Thank you, Neil. We'll see if we can
shoot for that date. I really do thank you all for your
attendance and hope to see you at the luncheon. I do
have maps for you, okay.
We're adjourned.
(Meeting adjourned at 11:30 a.m.)
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
95
STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF COLLIER )
I, Terri L. Schultz, Deputy Official Court
Reporter, do hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings
were taken before me at the date and place as stated in the
caption hereto on Page 1 hereof; that the foregoing
computer-assisted transcription, consisting of pages numbered
2 through 94, inclusive, is a true record of my Stenograph
notes taken at said proceedings.
Dated this 17th day of October, 1994.
Terri L. ~hu~ 'J
Deputy Official Court Reporter
20th Judicial Circuit
STATE OF FLORIDA
COUNTY OF COLLIER
The foregoing certificate was acknowledged before me this
17th day of October, 1994, by Terri L. Schultz, who is
personally known to me.
t
State of Florida at Large
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
October 6, 1994
There being no further business for the Good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by Order of the Chair - Time: 11:30 A.M.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOV NING BOARD ( S ) OF
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as presented v o= as corrected .