BCC Minutes 10/19/1994 W (Golden Gate - Waste Management Planning) 1
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Golden Gate -- Waste Management Planning Workshop
ORIGINAL
Golden Gate Community Center
4701 Golden Gate Parkway
Golden Gate, Florida
October 19, 1994
7:00 p.m.
Reported by:
Terri L. Schultz
Deputy Official Court Reporter
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MEMBERS PRESENT
Tim Constantine, Chairman
Bettye Matthews, Vice Chairman
John Norris
Burt Saunders
Mike Volpe
Neil Dorrill, County Manager
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MR. CONSTANTINE: I think we'll go ahead and get
started. If everybody can find their way to chairs. For
us, it's pretty close to on time. We'll start this
evening, Mr. Dorrill, if you will lead us in the
invocation and a pledge to the flag.
(Invocation given by Neil Dorrill, followed by the
pledge of allegiance.)
MR. CONSTANTINE: Thank you all for coming out
tonight. This is an issue which is very important, not
only to Collier County, but specifically to the Golden
Gate Community. It's last year when we dealt with the
issue. We had several hundred people out; that's
encouraging to see a big crowd again this year.
What I want to do is just give about a 60-second
background on where we've been and where we're at on this
issue. You may recall last year, prior to last year,
there was a plan by the county to expand the existing
landfill some 300 acres to the north of where it
currently sits. Last year we decided not to do that, and
we've made a commitment not to do that.
What we did, however, was ask -- because we were
told there was only 7 to 10 years life left in that
landfill if we did not use the additional 300 acres, we
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asked our staff to go out and find a way to maximize the
land that was there, and to see what the cheapest way of
doing that is and also to come back to us with any
alternatives.
As you know, it came back beyond our wildest
imagination as far as how far we could go with the use
there. And now, instead of 7 to 10 years, we may have
somewhere from 15 to 20 years we're told. There has
been, either on the radio or in the news or phone calls
or letters that I've received, I'm sure the other
commissioners have received in the past couple of weeks
on this issue, some feeling, apparently, that this is a
"done deal", and I can assure you nothing is done at this
point, which is the purpose for this workshop tonight.
I think not only do we need to inform the
community, but the Commission itself needs to be better
informed as well before we make any final decisions, and
hopefully tonight we can help move along in that process.
What we have be doing to this point, our staff sent
out requests for proposals. We got answers back to those
requests, and we ranked -- I might say our own staff also
responded to that proposal. So, we have our own staff,
the people who are currently doing the job, also compared
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in this. Of the private firms, we ranked those firms in
order and Waste Management was the top ranked private
firm.
So, at this point we have narrowed the scope to the
question of, will we privatize or will we stay with our
own crew doing that sort of thing? And there are
advantages and disadvantages to both. If we choose to
privatize, Waste Management has been ranked as the number
one firm. So, on behalf of the Board, I assure you, no
final decision has been made, and that's where we're at
tonight.
What I'm going to ask is our own staff, Bill
Lorenz, in particular, will do a brief presentation on
the requested proposal itself, what it entails, what we
had asked him to do, his staff to do. At that point
we'll hear from Waste Management; they have a proposal or
a presentation on their proposal so that everyone will
have an understanding of what it is they are offering.
At that point I think the Board will have
questions. We'll take maybe 10 or 15 minutes of
questions from the Board. After that, I want to open it
up so everybody can ask any question they have, and I
suspect it will be several.
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If you have not seen -- there is a list floating
around if you'd like to sign up to speak. There are also
little slips floating around. I don't know where they
are. If you have not already filled one out --
MR. DORRILL: We passed them out, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Oliff is at the rear of the room. If you've already
filled one out, if you'd pass it to the center aisle, it
will be collected. If you would like to have a slip in
order to speak, just raise your hand; someone is in the
rear of the room coming forward, and they will pass those
out.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Hopefully we can put the
presentation and initial question portion of this
together in the next 20 or 25 minutes, and from there on,
open it up to whatever comments, questions, suggestions
the public has.
I might compliment the Board. A year ago we were
very open. The entire Board was very open to the
suggestions that the community made as far as the
expansion issue, and I suspect they will be again
tonight. So, any issues that you want to share with us,
you're certainly welcome to that.
Mr. Lorenz, you want to bring us up to date on the
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RFP?
MR. LORENZ: For the record -- good evening,
commissioners. For the record, Bill Lorenz,
Environmental Services Administrator. As the chairman
has noted, we've gone through the process of receiving
requests for proposals from three firms that were
qualified by the Board as a result of six firms
submitting requests for qualifications.
The request for proposals were received on August
26th, and basically, the staff tried to structure the
proposal so that we could determine what the optimization
or best utilization of the site could be to try to extend
the life of the site.
Basically, the staff provided or requested a, what
we call, a base proposal, which was dependent upon the
landfill's current permitted height, which is 108 feet in
elevation.
We also requested the proposals -- proposers who
submit to us a proposal that would take the capacity or
elevation to a height that the proposer felt that they
could support and provide the best price for the county.
As the chairman noted, Waste Management was ranked
number one in process and on the base proposal, which
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again, is the current permitted elevation of the site.
The site life was estimated as being 21 years from,
basically, 1996, with a tipping fee of $14.92.
Now, that compares to the county's base proposal of
site life, estimating around 17.7 years at a tipping fee
of $23.55. So you can -- you can see there, in terms of
the comparison, that the Waste Management's tipping fee
was much less than the county's proposal, and they
received several more years of capacity.
The alternate proposal, in other words, presented
by Waste Management, which I'm sure Waste Management will
present a more fuller explanation on what is at a height
of 155 feet, which provides a tipping fee of $13.89 per
ton. That provided a site life of 23.4 years, for an
additional 2.4 years greater than the base proposal.
At the Board's -- this elevation, also of 155 feet,
staffing for those -- you're looking at a height of
around 178 feet, and we also even provided -- put a
balloon test up to see what height the landfill would be
and found that at 175 feet, you couldn't see the balloon
at the -- above the tree line from Route 75 and Route
951. I think that's a little bit of a key of an aspect
of trying to have some sense of how high that 155 feet
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is.
At the Board's meeting two weeks ago, the Board
provided directions for staff to begin negotiations with
Waste Management for the alternative proposal at 155 feet
and also directed staff to hold and conduct this workshop
so that the public had an opportunity to understand what
the proposal by Waste Management is, and also provide
input to the Board.
With that as just a very brief overview of a little
bit of processing, I'll turn it over to the Chairman.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Just a quick comment on -- the
final thing Mr. Lorenz said was that we direct staff to
negotiate with Waste Management. I think that is,
perhaps, where some of the confusion came in that, "Gosh,
the contract's already been awarded," and that's not the
case.
As we said, they were the number one ranked private
firm. There are a number of things in their proposal
that are negotiable. And in order for us to best judge
whether privatizing or staying with our own system is
best, we need to nail down a little bit of what those
things are. If they're negotiable, we need to know what
we're working with, instead of looking at a moving
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target. So that's where negotiating is headed, I think
in the Board's mind, anyway, at this point. If Waste
Management wants to go ahead and do their presentation.
Mr. Dudley Goodlette, I believe, is going to lead
the presentation. I'm not quite sure. Thank you.
MR. GOODLETTE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We're
pleased to have the opportunity to be here. I'm Dudley
Goodlette with the Law Firm of Cummings and Lockwood here
in Naples, and we represent Waste Management Inc., of
Florida. Our presentation, Mr. Chairman, will not exceed
about 15 minutes.
Just to -- by way of introduction, I would like to
indicate to you that we're pleased to have the
opportunity to comment and present the highlights, if you
will, of our proposal. We're going to touch on the
things, this evening, that we think are of particular
concern regarding issues relating to noise; environmental
issues relating to some of those other issues. We'll
have a video that will touch on some of those as well.
There are several representatives from Waste
Management who are here who will be available to answer
any questions you may have. The team of people who are
presenting Waist Management include, Hole-Montez and
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Associates, local engineering firm; Rust Environmental
and Infrastructures, doing the environmental work; as
well as several representatives from Waste Management.
In that regard, Mr. Warren Smith, who is the
manager of Business Development with the company, is
going to lead the presentation and will be assisted by
one or more others. Upon the conclusion of that, we'll
be happy to address any of your questions, and
thereafter, of course, as you indicated, Mr. Chairman,
we'll be happy to respond to other inquiries as the Chair
may direct us or would like us to. Warren Smith.
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Dudley. And we're pleased
to be here tonight to share some information with you
about our proposal to the county, which gives our
thoughts on managing the landfill for the county and
optimizing the site.
Waste Management is very active in the State of
Florida. We have, by far, the most number of landfills
of any company in the state, with eight landfills across
the state, indicated by the stars.
We also operate in 41 locations from the Keys up to
the Pan Handle, so that includes Waste Management of
Collier County, right here where we do the collection and
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recycling collections for all the counties. We're proud
of our operational experience here in Florida.
The things we'll be emphasizing tonight and talking
about in a little more detail as we get a little further
into the presentation would be, of course, we're going to
be providing the most experience and professional
management of the a landfill. We've provided a -- what
we believe is the best solution to optimize the site
life, which gives the county the flexibility then to do
other things like get alternative disposal methods, find
another landfill site for the future, but this gives the
option of counties some flexibility with the time that's
available to explore these other alternatives.
Odor control is an issue, and we'll spend a good
deal of time telling you about what we do best, and
that's operate landfill.
The community is very important to us, and I think
we can show it to you. We hope to show you today during
this presentation, and our questions and answers, that we
provide the most environmentally sound proposal to the
county and also the most economical.
Just to orient you, this is a recent picture of the
landfill as it exists today, and if we can get so it's
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facing north. This is 1-75 or Alligator Alley, here's
the gate house to the landfill, and here's the active
portion of the landfill up here, which is known as Cell
6; and then up here about a mile away is the Golden Gate
Community.
Our plan to optimize the landfill includes a phase
approach that would fully utilize the existing available
land, but not go off of the existing area that the county
already was using. That phasing includes -- continues
filling of Cell 6, and again, north is this way this
time.
Again, and then your Golden Gate Community, we're
down here. So we would fill this area, complete the
filling here, then phase over to Phase 2 here in a few
years; and then continue the rest of the landfill, by
then filling the existing hall road and this Phase 3
area.
One of the effects of the phasing plan would be to
have all the construction finished here closest to the
Golden Gate Community; and then that would provide an
effective barrier to further landfill operations for
noise and just a day-to-day operation. So you're going
to be screening from future operations for the vast
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majority of the time that the landfill will remain there.
Odor control. We've had a lot of experience with
this, immediately, operational -- some operational things
that can be done. We've provided a -- one of the pieces
of equipment that we use is a compactor that packs the
waste into the ground. And we've proposed, in our
response to the county a new heavy-duty compactor that
will do, we think, a better job than, perhaps, is being
done now; an effective cover. Day-to-day operations are
important to helping control the odor to keep the fill
phase narrow, keep the landfill covered daily, and we
think that's the first thing that can be done.
Secondly, and we've included in our proposal,
immediate -- almost immediate inclusion of an active gas
extraction system, flare system, an active gas landfill
gas control system.
Now, landfills naturally produce gas. As the
garbage decomposes, methane gas and other gases are
released from that natural composition process. But with
the proper system, they can be collected, transported,
and handled properly so that you do not have an odor.
Some other minor things, removal of the Leachath
(phonetic) Pond, which is being planned now, and improve
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sludge management at the landfill, we think, in total,
will all act to eliminate the odor situation.
Some detail -- and we have some engineers here with
us. They'll speak in more detail, if you're interested,
later. But the typical gas extraction well, you can see
that the header pipe goes down into the garbage, actively
collects the gas, and it's pulled into the gas collection
pipe system, and then is directed to a flare system
where, initially, the gas would be burned at the flare,
destroying the odors. Later on, perhaps -- and we can do
the studies on that, and as we've done in several other
landfills here in Florida and many across the country, is
to then actually collect that gas and either clean it up,
sell it as natural gas, or turn it into electricity.
We have the largest gas -- landfill gas to
electricity project in our company, and perhaps in the
United States, at our landfill in Pompano Beach.
I think at this point, why don't we show the video?
We have a little video that we showed to the Board during
our presentation several months ago, and this will just
help recap the phasing program and the different things
that we've proposed to optimize the site.
Kind of -- there's no words to this; I'll kind of
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narrate as we go along.
(Video being played.)
This is the landfill entry road, the 1-75 or
Alligator Alley. North Golden Gate would be up here.
the animation video gets closer, you come up on the
existing scale house, the maintenance facility that
exists, and the entry back to the active portion of the
landfill. Cell 6 would be back here.
So our phasing plan would be to begin here, fill
the phase one or the Cell 6 area immediately, or
initially, then move to, after completion, move to Phase
2. There's some landfill mining going on there, and we
would continue that and complete that. Then complete
Phase 2, and then finally, Phase 3 area.
As
Again, you can see the -- I'm trying to show here
that the landfill is coming up, and then we showed you
the gas extraction cell that looks dramatic, and this is
what it would look like, there being many of these on the
landfill. They come out of the landfill about four feet,
and then this collects, actively collects the gas, so it
doesn't get out of the landfill cover, and transports it
to, initially, a flare facility, that would then burn the
gas and take care of the odors.
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This is a depiction of the -- this is a scale
depiction of what the landfill would like look at the
1-75 at 155 feet. I think vegetation, the trees out
there, I think, are even denser than that. You can see
in the background that the landfill would not be visible
from 1-75 or those other locations.
A little further into our project, we would plan to
replace the existing administration building and scale
house with a new facility.
And that brings us pretty much to the end of the
video. We thank our friends at Rust for the good
animation.
Just to finish up, and then I wanted to turn it
over to Linda Long, our Director of Corporate and Public
Affairs, to talk about our Community Relations Programs.
Mr. Lorenz indicated the comparison that the staff
did, and we've indicated this on the chart for you. The
base proposal was at the existing permitted height of 108
feet. Again, restating our price was $14.92 a ton
compared to the county's, which is the nearest
competitive price, at $23.55.
The county then had an alternative of 178 feet and
ours at 155 feet at 13.9 a ton. The bottom line is that
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the cost savings for the county over the life of the
project for privatizing the landfill amounts to somewhere
in the neighborhood of $60 million. So it's a very
sizable amount money over time, plus you have the
flexibility, then, to investigate other alternatives.
Another important aspect of the Waste Management proposal
is that we were the only ones to propose that.
The county has over $7 million in their reserve
account set aside for closure of the landfill and also
other capital projections. And under our proposal, and
only other proposal, the county would keep that $7
million to use for whatever other purposes they might
decide for the landfill or other things.
Also with the Waste Management proposal, we have
avoided spending, compared to the county's anticipated
expenditure, about $15 million over the life of the
projects by immediately delaying or canceling, if you
will, the expenditure, $3 and a half million at the
Immokalee landfill, replacing as a less expensive
transfer station. It would transfer about 60 tons a day
in about four or five years, about 60 tons a year to the
Naples landfill, which amounts to about two or three
truck loads a day, and then avoid another $12 or $13
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million in capitol expenditures into the future.
Linda, I'm going to turn it over to you for a few
comments on our public relations.
MS. LONG: Thank you, Warren. As Warren said, I'm
Linda Long; I'm the Director of Corporate Public Affairs
to the company in the State of Florida.
First of all I'd like to thank you for this
opportunity as we ask you to let us serve you in
operating the landfill near your homes. An important
part of our environmental service to you would be to
establish a communications and an education plan, not a
fluffy RFP plan, but a real one, one that's very serious.
That means a great deal to you and to us as a company.
One of the most important groups in that
communications plan is our immediate neighbors, the
people who work and live closest to us. We would want to
set up communication venues, dialogues with you, both
informal and formal. For example, if we are allowed to
operate the landfill for you, we'd want to open, perhaps,
in a couple of weeks, a community report day where you
come out, say, on a Saturday morning. I'd make them
serve you coffee and muffins. But you would come out,
meet the people who are in charge of the landfill, meet
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the person in charge, the division president, get his
card, hopefully. We would want you to see how we
operate, why we're doing what we're doing, and ask us
questions one-on-one. Then perhaps, we'd like to set up
a formal council with you, if you'd like to serve on a
formal council with us. We call them neighborhood
councils where we set up quarterly meetings, perhaps,
monthly meetings. However often you'd like to meet,
that's when wetd meet. So you can ask us what we're
doing and how we're doing it on the regular basis, and we
can also report to you what's happening at the landfill
and what our plans are.
The next thing on your communications plan would be
to offer ourselves as resources to local community groups
and civic groups. And also, those groups, community
tourists, come see how the landfill operates. Beyond
that, we want to work with the school system, speak with
the school administration and to see how best our
facility, your facility, could provide educational
resources to the students.
And then beyond that, serving the community as a
whole, we'd like to take part in your community
activities, or the activities, arts and craft festivals,
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or whatever. We'd like to be an important part of your
community. All the while, we want to be as accessible to
the media as possible, provide answers to any of their
questions, but also be proactive from time to time, offer
them information.
Now that I've gone from the specifics to the
general, I'd like to bring you back to the front door of
the landfill where our company has an open-door policy.
If at any time you have a question, we want you to
come to us and ask us those questions and feel free to
come to that front door at any time and ask us what's
going on, clarify any rumors or questions that you might
have. We've been serving you for 15 years now with Waste
Management of Collier where we introduce curbside
recycling to you. We'd like the opportunity to serve as
your land operator as well. Thank you.
MR. SMITH: Thanks, Linda. Linda's a great
communicator. And Commissioners and Commissioner
Chairman, we're ready to communicate. So that's the end
of our presentation. We'll be happy to answer questions,
and we have plenty of technical staff, if we get to that
level. So, thank you very much.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Thank you. Why don't we take
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about 10 or 15 minutes to ask whatever questions we may
have and then open it up to the floor.
off, if I might.
MR. LORENZ: Warren.
And I'll start it
Mr. Smith, perhaps, why don't
you come over here to this mike.
microphone back there.
questions.
MR. SMITH:
Mr. Volpe needs his
It might be helpful to answer his
Excuse me, Mr. Chairman.
MR. CONSTANTINE: I've got about four or five
questions to start. Probably first and foremost on
people's minds, other than the length of time of this, is
the odor problem. You mentioned a gas management system.
What kind of track record does that have? What other
communities are you using it in? I need kind of a list
here so we know where we can verify it's performance in
other communities before we assume that it's going to
work here.
MR. SMITH: I'll take an initial shot at your
question, and then maybe we can turn it over to some of
our technical people.
I believe that we designed immediately into all of
our landfills -- we designed active gas collection
systems. And we also evaluate the gas generated from
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those landfills for, the future, beneficial use to the
community through, as I mentioned, generation of
electricity or cleaning it up and selling it, where
it's available, into a natural gas pipe line. So that's
a requirement of all our landfills. It's a requirement
of state law, it's a requirement of federal law. And
other than, perhaps, C and D cites where you do not have
a lot of, what we call, pertrusable (Sic) or municipal
solid wastes, we have those at our landfills, and the
track record is very good.
MR. CONSTANTINE: I guess gas management and odor
management do not necessarily have to mean the same
thing. My question is more specific toward -- I realize
the two are connected, but you can meet the federal
requirements and still have a pretty healthy odor there.
So my question is: Where, specifically, have you
addressed, specifically addressed, the odor problem and
successfully addressed the odor problem that may have any
similarities to ours?
MR. SMITH: I believe if you effectively address
the gas collection control issue, you effectively address
the odor issue. They go hand in hand.
You have to do the one to control the other. We've
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included in our proposal, right up front, almost
immediately, to expend a quarter of a million dollars to
put in this active system at the Naples landfill. And I
believe that within probably six months of taking over
the operation of that site, that we'll have that system
in place and the odor problem would be effectively
controlled.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Let me try one more time. Where
are you currently doing it?
MR. SMITH: At all of our landfills.
MR. CONSTANTINE:
landfills?
MR. SMITH:
There's no odor at any of those
Landfills produce gas, and you have to
control the gas that's produced, and that will control
the odor. I'm not going to say that every minute of
every day, every day of every year --
MR. CONSTANTINE: What I'm fishing for here is kind
of, perhaps, references, if you will. Like if someone
applying for a job, gives references, and they may not
have been great on their performance on a job 365 days a
year, but if they are 320 days a year, I'm happy enough
to hire them.
MR. SMITH: We'd be happy to take you to any of the
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sites, the Medley Landfill in Dade County, our landfill
in Pompano, Central Landfill and Disposal Facility, the
Delfure (Sic) County Landfill, Southeast Landfill, our
Jackson County Landfill, Spring Hill Regional Landfill.
Linda?
MS. LONG: Let me just say the majority of the days
there are never odors at their landfill. There may be a
blip from time to time with some problem that we resolve
immediately, but I recently had lunch on the top of a
landfill, Central Sanitary Landfill in Pompano. We've
elected officials like yourself, and they were amazed
they didn't smell anything. When it's done properly
every day and done well by a good team like Waste
Management, you will not have an odor problem.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Just as far as performance
guarantees, I assume -- and I know you've written some
reference to performan.ce guarantees in the RFP response,
but what can we expect in the way of performance
guarantees that actually have a bite to them, so that if
we get two years into a contract with a private firm such
as yourself, and there is a consistent odor problem, what
remedies would we have to correct that?
MR. SMITH: We've already discussed with staff --
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we've proposed, and this is part of our ongoing
discussion, that the county will continue on the plan,
and we do that at other facilities where we have
municipal contracts, and we will take total
responsibility and put the operational permit in our
name, but the county is the beneficiary. By doing that,
we take total environmental responsibility for the proper
day-to-day operation of the landfill.
In addition to that, if you're looking for bite,
we're negotiating what I think will be a substantial
performance and payment bond, and we have a pretty good
bite when we provide a minimum of $10 million of
environmental insurance to the county as part of the
proposal.
So, I think the performance guarantees are there.
Beyond that, as a company, we have very stringent
internal procedures; and as a matter of fact, they are
even more stringent than the Florida DEP or EPA. We want
to do a good job for ourselves. If we do a good job for
ourselves, it's going to be a good job for Collier
County.
MR. CONSTANTINE:
that.
One more -- and I appreciate
Bottom line Just being, if we choose to privatize,
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we want to make sure -- there are a number of promises
now. We have no reason to believe that they will not
happen, but if they do not happen, we want to make sure
we have some recourse.
MR. SMITH: Absolutely. We'll negotiate that with
the staff, and we believe to your satisfaction.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Let me try a little different
issue here. The proposal talks to tipping fees and does
have very good prices. What is not included,
specifically, is horticultural wastes or on construction
of demolition materials, tires, that sort of thing. That
makes up merely 50 percent of the waste stream when you
include all that in. What do we have for guarantees as
far as prices on those? Because that was not
specifically referenced in the response.
MR. SMITH: The RFP required that we, as a
respondent, maintain the same level of service and also
maintain the various subcontracts -- subcontractors that
you had working at the landfill now, and that includes
the horticultural biomass processing, C and D processing,
the tires, the amnesty days, the Hazardous Waste Amnesty
Days Program, and we will maintain those until the
contracts expire. We are negotiating now a procedure to
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either renew those contracts or to provide the county
with our own operations that would be -- and through some
procedure, to give you the assurance that you're getting
the same level service at the very best price.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Can we assume that price would
remain in the neighborhood it is now and not have some
surprise on that as well?
MR. SMITH: I don't think there'll be any
surprises. We can go out for -- we'll go out for quotes
or bids just like the county goes out for bids. It's a
little easier for us to do it as a private company than
the county, but we will get what we believe, and we can
assure the county and the staff the very best prices.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Under that same section, your
response asks that the county would, if we entered into
an agreement with you, try to direct the maximum amount
of material possible toward the facility you'd be
operating. Does this conflict in any way?
Right now we do work with Naples Recycling, Naples
Culverts, other folks who, in our recycling efforts, who
did a great job to support us. How does that conflict
with what we're currently doing with the small operators?
MR. SMITH: There's absolutely no conflict in our
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minds. And again, we're discussing this with staff, and
we will continue to work with the local recyclers, and we
know you have a contract with a local recycler, and we're
certainly willing and able and want to talk to those
people and maintain, again, the same kind of
relationships that you, the county, have had.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Let me touch on two other areas,
and then I'll let the other commissioners ask their
questions.
Safety record has come up. I've talked with a
number of people in our community who are concerned.
They have either seen newspaper clippings, or what have
you, about Waste Management being in litigation in other
parts of the country for different safety or
environmental issues. Can you address that? Can you
address the Waste Management track record and what
assurances we have locally?
MR. SMITH: Yes, I can.
in the United States or North America. Some of them are
in Canada. We have operations in over 700 counties
across the country. As I mentioned, 41 here.
We have over 70,000 employees worldwide.
to time, there has been a newspaper article.
We have over 134 landfills
From time
And all I
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can tell you is that I've been with the company nearly 10
years. I came to Waste Management in 1985 after about 12
years of public service for both the state government and
a local county government, one of your sister counties
here in Florida. And all I can tell you is that my
experience with this company, or I wouldn't have been
here 10 years, or nearly 10 years, it's a fine company.
It's a fine -- one of the finest groups of professionals
that I've worked with. We try very hard not to have
problems. Yes, occasionally, we've had a problem.
Many of those problems have come about, as few as
there are. A lot of them have come back because we made
acquisitions of other companies and other landfills, and
we've corrected other peoples' problems. But yes, while
time to time there's a newspaper article, and we've had
violations, we work very hard to correct them.
It's our responsibility to make sure that our track
record stays as good as we can keep it. We're in a lot
of places, but we're doing a good job.
MS. LONG: As Warren said, I guess I should say, as
Paul Harvey would say, let me tell you the rest of the
story. Generally, when we do acquire those companies
along the way, we did get coverage, very early on in the
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problems, that happen to be at certain sites and
different places.
right.
company.
like the first set of headlines do.
all of the projects that we operate.
What we did do was clean up the mess. We made it
We've never walked away from a problem as a
And that generally doesn't make the headlines
We do stand behind
MR. CONSTANTINE: Just one final question. The
price we have been quoted is extremely cheap, and we
certainly appreciate that; however, it is cheaper than
many neighboring counties. Can we assure in any way that
we're not going to have our neighbors hauling our
trash -- hauling their trash or garbage to this landfill,
which does two things, perhaps, takes the burden off
those neighbors and neighboring counties and puts it on
us, but also uses up our land -- or local user expense,
uses up that landfill, and the costs incurred therein, in
essence, are paid by our locals.
MR. SMITH: I think you've asked maybe two implied
questions, if I may. If you haven't, let me answer in
two ways.
One, the price is -- maybe you think it's cheap,
but we gave you what we believe is a good price and a
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fair price and it's comparable to other landfills that we
operate for other municipalities under the same kind of
circumstances; for example, the Southeast Landfill in
Hillsborough County, if you wanted to check with those
folks, or the Trail Ridge Landfill in the City of
Jacksonville, which we cited permitted designs and now
operate for the life of the site, very comparable prices
or very similar types of projects.
And in answer to the second part of the question,
and that is, how can we assure you that garbage won't be
flowing in outside the county? You're going to own the
landfill, at least that's where we are now in the
negotiations. It will be your landfill. You can control
what comes into the landfill. Our responsibility will be
to operate the landfill, environmentally sound, and to
the best of our ability, to meet your needs and your
requirements. So you can control that under the
discussions that we're having now with your staff.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Chairman, I can elaborate on that
in terms of what the current policy is. A number of
years ago when I became the County Manager, we
determined, as part of the operating practices at the
Naples Landfill, that unregistered loads of trash were
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being diverted into Collier County Landfills from the
Broward County/Fort Lauderdale area.
As a result of that, with our -- at that time,
Director Mr. Fahey, we established a policy that you had
to have a proven commercial account, and you had to
preregister as a Collier County business in order to be
allowed access into the county landfill.
I will tell you that as part of that, from time to
time, there will be contractors who are doing business in
South Lee County. And as a consequence of Collier
County's landfill tipping fees being almost a third of
what Lee County's tipping fees are, it is difficult to
monitor, in particular, Collier County commercial
accounts who may be doing business, for example, in
Bonita Springs, of a construction nature.
We do not allow residential garbage to come from
South Lee County, but we have monitored traffic on 1-75
and U.S. 41 to determine if any loads were coming from
South Lee County. The nature of that is very, very
limited, and limited to construction and demolition type
debris, but we are aware of that possibility.
We monitor that situation, but compared to about
eight years ago, we now require people to register as a
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business in advance and have a commercial account at the
Collier County landfill or they are not allowed admission
when they run their trucks over the computerized scale.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Matthews.
MS. MATTHEWS: Yeah, I have a couple questions.
Last year in the workshop that they were listening to
with the citizens, they had -- one of their complaints
dealt with water contamination because of the location of
the aquifers under the existing landfill, and the fact
that one or more of the current cells is not lined.
Another one is lined with a single liner.
And we had constructed test wells and so forth to
be monitored more frequently. And I guess that's what
I'm looking for from you, also, that there's test wells
equally into the future that would be monitored, not just
as often as EPA requires, but as often as we need to have
them done in order to satisfy ourselves that the aquifers
are adequately protected.
MR. SMITH: I might split the question with staff
if they care to. I can say that we provide a very
aggressive and active monitoring program of our
facilities that certainly meets all of the regulatory
requirements and, in many cases, exceeds those
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requirements.
Very frankly, we're more interested in meeting the
ground water standard and are harder on our managers than
the regulatory people are.
So, internally, we do a tougher job than the
regulatory people do to us. But we will take over the
monitoring of the existing wells, provide the
installation of the additional wells that are needed
through the permitting process if the landfill goes
forward; and it's my understanding that the county has
agreed or has existing off-site monitoring wells that
they will -- that you will monitor and keep that data
yourselves. And we can split samples.
It's a common happening, if you will, with the
regulatory agencies and local government to actually
split samples so that we have a cross check, if you will,
of the monitoring data. So we can assure you that that
ground water monitoring will go on and will be done
properly.
MS. MATTHEWS:
last year, and having been out to the landfill a couple
times myself, is the noise generated by birds. And I
know landfills and birds habitually co-exist, but is
Another question that was brought up
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there anything that can be done to negate the presence of
birds and the noise that they make?
MR. SMITH: Birds are naturally attracted to
landfills because it's a food source.
MS. MATTHEWS: We know.
MR. SMITH: If you manage the landfill properly,
you're going to minimize that problem. And that
management includes keeping the fill phase as small as
possible in the active fill area, making sure that there
is adequate cover on the waste at the end of every day.
And if the bird population -- as it tends to get when the
true snow birds come down from up north in the winter
time, they do migrate south. We can do other things like
string the monofilament lines, control programs to keep
the birds, again, away from the food source, and that's
been very effective. We do not consider that we have a
bird problem at any of our landfills in the state.
MS. MATTHEWS: It would be economically feasible to
put monofilament lines across the area of the current
phase. I mean, they use that for pools and so forth to
keep birds out.
MR. SMITH: Yes. I'll turn over to maybe ask Ron
DeBattista if he wants to address that in a little more
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detail, but I think we have effective programs that we
can put in place here that are economical.
MR. DeBATTISTA: My name's Ron DeBattista. I'm the
Vice President for Environmental Management, which is a
fancy term for compliance and engineering in the State of
Florida.
Our bird program, as Warren's alluded to, has many
alternatives, some of which are stringing monofilament
line to control bird population. There's other programs
associated with bird control as it might relate to
recordings (Sic), birds placed in positions of certain
functioning so that they will scare away birds that are
actually looking for food.
We have people that specialize in that type of area
that we contract with on a regular basis. But generally,
some of the things that Warren's alluded to,
operationally, we generally clear up a bird problem at a
site, and those are the things that we look at initially.
MS. MATTHEWS: I guess my last question is more for
the county manager and that is: Mr. Dorrill, I've sent a
list of questions to you a couple days after the
presentation we had from our presenters here, which had,
I don't know, 12 or 15 items that I wanted to include in
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the negotiation, and those items are things like employee
attrition (Sic), equipment ownership, land ownership,
some fairly simple things that we have talked about. And
I wanted to clarify, are they being included in the
negotiation and -- just to verify that.
MR. DORRILL: We've had one meeting thus far with
Waste Management. It was an introductory meeting. We
reviewed what I would call a list of contractual points.
Commissioner Matthews' list was provided directly
to them as part of an expanded list, contractual points
that we're interested in. That is a matter of public
record, and if you're interested in seeing the major
points of the agreement that we are seeking, we'd be
happy to provide that through the media, through the
community, or through either one of your two
commissioners' offices so that you know in advance what
the major contractual points are intended to be and then
be able to monitor the final draft and propose contracts
for those lists that you've provided.
MS. MATTHEWS: Thank you.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Saunders.
MR. SAUNDERS: Thank you, Chairman. Quite frankly,
most of the questions have been answered, have been asked
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by the other commissioners. There are three areas that
I'd like to kind of focus on for just a moment.
In reference to the Leachath discharge and the
existing tipping fee, I presume that the cost for
collecting Leachath, transporting it, treating it,
disposing of it, is included in that existing tipping
fee?
MR. SMITH:
Yes, sir, it is.
MR. SAUNDERS: We had asked you -- we were told by
our staff that this landfill would last for another six
to ten years, and that was part of the reason that we
started conducting public hearings and determining what
we were going to do with this landfill.
Once we determined that we weren't going to expand
the existing landfill, that we were going to move the
landfill out of the Golden Gate area, we asked bidders,
proposers, to tell us how to maximize the life of the
landfill, and that's how we got to where we are with the
21 years that you're recommending.
Would it be possible, under the parameters that
you've put together with your proposal, that the county
at some point in time less than 20 years, less than 21
years, for example, at the expiration of 10 years or the
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expiration of 12 years, would it be possible for the
county to say to Waste Management, "We want to terminate
the contract because we have secured another site
elsewhere in the county. We've gotten that permitted.
We're ready to start landfilling the new location"?
Would there be an opportunity to terminate the
contract at a specified period of time, say 10 years?
MR. SMITH: I believe the answer to that is yes.
We're in negotiations. We can talk about termination
clauses that would terminate for convenience.
MR. SAUNDERS: Would these necessarily be expensive
actions for the county to take?
MR. SMITH: The 21 years is the -- under the lower
height proposal, is the optimum use of that land. It
does give you the flexibility, then, that if you need
more than 10 years to site a new landfill, or if other
technologies come along, that you do have that
flexibility.
MR. SAUNDERS: I guess another way of just making
sure I understand what you're saying is, if we put a
10-year termination provision in the contract,
termination for convenience, would that necessitate there
be something, some lump-sum payment to Waste Management
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in order make that happen, or can we have that in there
with the existing financial arrangements that you've
talked about?
MR. SMITH: I can't answer that for you here. My
guess would be that there would probably be some -- have
to be some buy-out provision. We have capitals that
we'll be expending immediately. For example, the quarter
of a million dollars that the very first few months of
the gas control system, and then over $100,000 annually
budgeted thereafter for gas control. Closure costs are
budgeted annually, so depending on where we were at the
termination, we might want to -- we'd probably have to
devise some language that would provide for an equitable
financial.
MR. SAUNDERS: During the negotiations, you can
develop some formula so that if we terminate for
convenience at 10 years it means one thing. If we
terminate for convenience at 12 years, it means another
13 years, so on?
MR. SMITH:
I'm certain we can do that.
MR. SAUNDERS: I think that most of the residents
in Golden Gate are terribly concerned about the prospect
of a landfill being there for 21 years. And if we have a
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way to move that, close that out in a shorter period of
time because we have gone through an alternative
technology, or we've located another landfill elsewhere,
perhaps in Charlotte County or wherever we can locate a
landfill without creating any problem in Collier County,
I think that would give a great deal of comfort to the
residents in the Golden Gate area.
Thirdly, your tipping fee. I would presume that we
would be able to tack on to your tipping fee an
additional charge so that the county could build up
reserves for acquisition of land for the movement of the
landfill.
So, for example, you're going to charge $14 and
some odd cents for the tipping fees. If we determine
that we need to charge $2 a ton or $3 a ton for purposes
of creating reserves to effectuate and move the landfill,
I presume that that would not create any difficulties.
MR. SMITH: Absolutely. I mean, you'll be the
owner of the landfill. We'll hold the permit.
Our agreement for $14.92 or $13.89, depending on
the proposal ultimately accepted, is an agreement,
contractual agreement between us, Waste Management, and
you, Collier County, and you would set rates for the
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landfill, for the landfill users. So, absolutely, that's
entirely your discretion.
MR. SAUNDERS: And finally, in reference to the
closure of the landfill and the operating of the
monitoring system for 30 years once the landfill is
closed, I presume that your contract will provide full
compliance with all DEP regulations, and the cost of
those regulations is included in the existing tipping
fee?
MR. SMITH: That's also correct. The RFP required,
and we responded, to provide the full cost of closure and
of 30 years of post-closure care.
MR. SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Norris.
MR. NORRIS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My questions
have all been answered. The last two questions that
Commissioner Saunders asked were two that I wanted to
make sure that got answered clearly, and I think they
have by now.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Volpe.
MR. VOLPE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, a couple of
questions. You've indicated that you're operating
currently approximately 47 other landfills in the State
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of Florida?
F~R. SMITH:
Florida.
Florida.
Eight other landfills in the State of
We have 41 operating divisions in the State of
We have 134, or more than 134 landfills across
the United States.
MR. VOLPE: Of the eight landfills that you
currently are operating in the State of Florida, what's
the average length of time that you have been operating
those landfills?
MR. SMITH:
MR. VOLPE:
It varies widely.
I'm just asking for an average whether
over time it's been a --
MR. SMITH: Our landfill in Pompano's been there
over 20 years. We've had the Hillsborough contract for
about 10 years. We've renewed that recently under a
bidding process for life of site, which is estimated to
be in excess of 30 to 40 years. The Trail Ridge Landfill
we started operating two years ago after we went to a
lengthy three year site selection and permitting process.
You know, 10 years or so.
MR. VOLPE: So it's fair to say you have had some
significant experience in operating landfills within the
State of Florida?
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MR. SMITH:
MR. VOLPE:
MR. SMITH:
MR. VOLPE:
Yes, sir.
That's a fair statement to make?
Yes, sir.
You mentioned that there have been
certain communities that, at least one in particular you
mentioned, had renewed a contract recently?
Yes, we've had several that have
MR. SMITH:
renewed, yes.
MR. VOLPE:
Correct me if I'm wrong. I understand
that we do not currently have a gas management system at
our existing landfill? Do we have a gas management
system there now? We do not have a gas management system
currently?
MR. DORRILL: You have a series of wells that have
been drilled into a number of the cells for purposes of
venting. I would not, in any stretch of the imagination,
say that that is a management system.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Take it from those of us who woke
up here this week, there's no gas management.
MR. VOLPE: That's the point I wanted to make,
that, obviously, I think we're all aware of it. I just
wanted to underscore the fact that the problems that we
have been experiencing in the past in the landfill comes
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about as a direct result of the fact that there is no
current gas management system in place. And the
proposal, whether it's being operated in the private
sector or the public sector, that's an immediate concern
that we have and that you as the residents have that
needs to be corrected.
Just a couple of other very quick questions. We
have an existing landfill. It's been there -- Mr.
Lorenz, how long has the landfill been at that location?
MR. LORENZ: '76.
MR. VOLPE: Since 1976. So that's, Commissioner
Matthews, 18 years?
In your experience, where you have an existing
landfill and you have taken over the operation of the
landfill, have you seen property values in the area
decline, or increase, or stay about the same?
MR. SMITH: A properly operated landfill should not
have, and usually does not have, any effect on property
values. We have landfills -- the one in Pompano is in a
very, very heavily populated area within just feet of
neighboring businesses and condominiums and residences.
And there are -- they're continuing to build new homes
and businesses near the landfill. So it need not be a
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depressing factor, land values adjacent to landfills.
MR. VOLPE: I was really just looking for a
situation where we're not citing a new landfill.
an existing landfill. And I was curious as to where a
landfill is properly operated, whether over a period of
time it will have any type of an effect on land values,
and I'm not sure whether you can answer that other than
the way that you have.
MR. SMITH:
answer is, "No."
our purpose and intent if we're awarded this contract ,
to do the things necessary at the Naples Landfill and the
Immokalee Landfill to virtually make the landfills not
noticeable by sight, by sound, and by smell to any of the
residents, and to be a good neighbor and to exist in the
community and provide our very vital services.
MR. VOLPE: Just one other question, and this is:
In your opinion what would be the advantages to this
community to privatize the operation of our existing
county-operated landfill?
MR. SMITH: The number one advantage, I think,
environmentally, is that you're going to have the most
experienced company in the world add landfills, provide
We have
Well, I think I have. I think the
Properly operated, it's "No." And it's
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environmentally sound construction, permitting operation,
and that's number one.
Number two, we're a part of this community and we
want to stay a part of the community for a long time. We
want to be good corporate citizens of the community, and
we will do everything we can, as Linda mentioned earlier,
to get the word out, to share information, to make this
community a part of what we're doing and be very active
in that.
And thirdly, there's a very substantial cost
savings, and that is a direct result of privatization,
and I think we showed that on one of our boards, up to
$60 million in total cost savings over the life of the
project. So those are the three main things that I see.
MR. VOLPE: Just one other question that occurs to
me, and that is: When the Chair was discussing some of
the concerns, one of the ones that was identified was the
issue of noise, and there is a certain amount of noise
that emanates from the landfill operations.
In your presentation, you mentioned about the
establishment of some type of a berm over a period of
time. Is the intent of that berm to help to mitigate the
noise that may be coming from the landfill?
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MR. SMITH: Well, sir, we would phase construction
certainly to build the portions of the landfill that are
closest to the neighboring community first so that it
would provide a barrier between landfill operations and
the community.
But secondly, it's -- you know, hours of operation
are important. It's our understanding that not the
county, but some of the subcontractors out there are
working until later at night after the landfill closes,
and we would try working with the subcontractors to
streamline their operations and make them more efficient
so we all get our work done at closing timing without
having to work until late in the night.
MR. VOLPE: That could be hours of operation that
could be another term of the agreement. I'm not sure
whether that's one of the terms that's being discussed by
the staff is the hours of operation.
MR. LORENZ: Yes.
MR. VOLPE: That's all we have.
MR. CONSTANTINE: I think we have 15 or more names
of people who would like to speak. We'll ask three
simple rules: Because there are a number of people who
would like to speak or ask questions, just as a courtesy
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to the other speakers, if you can keep your comments to a
maximum of five minutes.
Also, we need you to come up to the microphone so
that we can capture it forever on our records, because
this is a public hearing. And finally, just when you
begin, if you would identify yourself for the record.
MR. LORENZ: Mr. Chairman, if I may. If there are
questions that you would like for us to respond to, we'll
follow your directions as to whether you'd like for us to
do it then or whether you'd like to save those questions
and we can conclude those at the end.
MR. CONSTANTINE: If there are specific questions
people have, either our staff -- of either our staff or
Waste Management, hopefully we can answer them at that
time.
MR. LORENZ:
As they arrive.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Mr. Dorrill, you want to read?
What we'll do is have the speaker who's there and he'll
name one other, so that whoever is next in line can be
prepared behind the podium as well.
MR. DORRILL:
registered speakers.
Mr. Dorrill?
Yes, Chairman. We actually have 29
And I was asked whether during the
course of the evening if you want to take a break at some
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point or whether you want to try and hear all those.
or two people asked me what the intent was.
MR. CONSTANTINE: We'll see how we move along.
MR. DORRILL: The first speaker is going to be
Max Phillips. And if I could, please,
Mr. Phillips.
have --
MR. CONSTANTINE:
orle
That's Ms. Max Phillips.
MRo DORRILL: Sorry. Max Phillips. Then if I
could have Mr. Jenkins, Wayne Jenkins. If you will stand
by and near the podium, please. Ms. Phillips, if you'll
Mr. Jenkins, if you'll stand by.
I'm the other Max from Golden Gate,
I guess. At the risk of sounding ignorant, I have no
idea how it is that we've gone from a seven years'
depletion of that landfill to 20 something years. So I
guess I need some education about that.
The other thing is, I was getting very excited to
hear about student education and arts and crafts fairs,
but then I hear about trucking waste from Immokalee over
to our landfill, talks about heights of 158 feet.
I don't know. Wasn't that something like 17 or 18
stories high? I'm trying to get a picture of that in my
come forward.
Max Phillips.
MS. PHILLIPS:
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mind.
So we have a lot of concerns. We're aiming for
quality of life here. I can't even get into this cost
issue at the risk of worrying what it's going to be like
day in and day out having this expanded landfill.
What I'm suggesting, in addition to some of the
good things that I heard from the commissioners, is
perhaps these other landfills that are being operated --
we've heard about open-door policies and community groups
meeting with Waste Management on a regular basis.
I'm wondering, if it's really being done right now
at these other places, and could we have a group of
people, whether some elected and some from our community,
because I think we'd feel better about that, getting in
touch with the neighbors of these landfills and hearing
what concerns they've had, what are ongoing, what have
been resolved. And I think that at that point, we would
have some idea of what we're dealing with and what kind
of ongoing history Waste Management actually has in these
dealings.
Thank you very much.
MR. DORRILL: Following Mr. Jenkins, we'll have
John Delate. If I could, let me answer the lady's first
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question about what happened to the seven year life.
Landfill, as it exists and it is permitted, is what
is known as a Florida modified highrise landfill. And
there is intended to be in the current permit for the
landfill, three pyramid-shaped type cells of about 40
acres and approximately 100 to 110 feet.
As part of the revised requests for proposal, not
to go off site, because originally the reason we began
acquiring additional property to the north was to expand
in the same concept, which was a series of small 40 acre
insurface area type permits of 100 to 110 feet high.
In order not to expand to the north, what is now
being contemplated is to maximize the existing site.
What will result then is a combined or consolidated
L-shaped type pyramid cell that will be at least 50
percent higher or 150 feet as a minimum.
That is why we've gone from seven years of
estimated life at the current site to remaining on that
site for a longer period. But obviously, by combining
the pyramids, if you will, and increasing the design
height in order to stay within the 300 acre site that is
there now and not move to the north on the additional 300
acres.
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MR. CONSTANTINE: Let me just add one thing. When
we decided not to expand to the north, we still have an
obligation, according to federal environmental laws, to
have at least a seven years' inventory, if you will, of
land for future landfill use.
So we asked our staff to find ways -- what the
alternatives were. Just because the answer has come back
"There may be a way to do 21 years worth of work there,"
does not mean this Board has to agree to do 21 years
worth of work there.
So at least we know it's available to us now, but
I'm not sure that's necessarily what we'll end up doing.
So all we asked our staff to do was come back, tell
us what was possible, and we, as a board, need to decide
how to utilize that.
I think Commissioner Saunders' comment earlier was
a good one. We may want the opt-out policy at the end of
10 years, which I think all of us, a year ago, thought
was probably the maximum amount it would be there. So
that if, in the meantime, we permit another site, we can
move there at that time. But that information, I
compliment our staff for getting those answers back. At
least we know what's available, but that doesn't mean we
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have to use that plan.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Jenkins, then Mr. Delate, if
you'd stand by, please. Mr. Jenkins.
MR. JENKINS: Thank you, Commissioners, County
Manager. My name is Wayne Jenkins, a resident of Golden
Gate Estates. I know you've all had the pleasure of
hearing me several times previously, and I won't go into
a mass discussion.
MR. CONSTANTINE:
The beard looks good.
MR. JENKINS: Thank you. That's my disguise. I
hoped you wouldn't know me.
You do know that I have been very adamantly opposed
to the expansion of the present site, and I've got three
basic concerns that I'd like to address tonight.
And I guess number one, when I first started
discussing and became involved in this issue and started
discussing it with you, we had some commissioners, Ann
Goodline and Max Hasse, who were on the Commission at
that time. And right now, we're looking at a change of
two more commissioners. It's concerns me, as this drags
on longer and longer, and different people are looking at
this, is what is the final result going to be?
And I'd just like to urge that we finish this
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business and let me know whether I have to board up my
front door and leave my house, which you can give me some
relief at the present time, and I thank you very much for
that. But we do need to commit with a firm decision and
move on with this process.
And number two, even with the extended life of the
landfill, I heard it mentioned a couple times tonight,
but I'd like to urge that we can continue to actively
look for another site for in the future, because 20 years
from now it's going to be more difficult, if not
impossible, to find another possible site. So just
because we extend that landfill, and I know that you're
smarter than I am, but let's keep on the ball as we look
for an alternative in the future.
A couple things that come to mind in the
discussions I've heard tonight, we've talked about some
wells for monitoring both the ground water, both within
the site, and as I understand, the county maintains some
wells outside the sites.
And my question is: If we have county staff to
maintain these, to monitor these wells off-site, why not
have the county monitor all these wells? If Waste
Management should receive the contract , they certainly
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would have the right to monitor the wells in addition,
but why not have our people monitor both sides of the
line on this thing?
And the last issue that concerns me, is that I like
the assurances of no more odors, but let's say these
odors develop and we continue to have to live with it.
We need something in place, a method of a fine or a
penalty if this cannot be corrected.
And I'm not saying that once in a while I'm not
going to get a whiff of it, but if it continues for days
and they have a problem they can't correct, we need
something in place to say, "Let's have something
straightened out on this."
My last comment to you -- and if I may, just for
about 30 seconds. It's not on the landfill, but I
addressed to you at the last meeting, I attended the last
County Commission Meeting. In addition to the landfill,
we're talking about problems with Jane Scenic Drive and
the airport, and I would like to compliment Commissioner
Constantine for taking the lead in the negotiations.
And let me tell you, Tim, that I appreciate you not
bucking under to pressure from the state agency and
giving up Collier County's right-of-way on Jane Scenic
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Drive. And not only Tim, I know you were all involved in
it. But thank you for looking out for the interests of
the residents of Collier County.
Thank you very much.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Delate or Delate, and then we'll
have Ms. Able. My apologies to Ms. Phillips.
MR. DELATE: Thank you very much. First I would
like to thank you, the Commission and Mr. Dorrill, for
holding the workshop tonight. I think it's very vital to
get input of this community, not only Golden Gate, Golden
Gate Estates, but also the county at large.
I have a great concern with this expansion,
horizontally, vertically, or any which way of the
landfill. While I'm not an expert nor engineer, I do
know enough about landfills to know that, from personal
experience, a loud additional hydraulic head can produce
greater pressure on the cell liners. This could, indeed,
at some point, produce a greater leakage through the
liners, more than currently is allowed.
I understand there will be checks on this.
Nonetheless, the ground water in the area could be
contaminated. And for one moment, I would like to tell
the people in the audience just exactly what heavy metal
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contamination and other toxics, which -- toxics which can
leach from the landfill.
As you know, many items, other than just paper
products, are buried out there. Arsenic, cadmium, lead
and other toxics here, Just to name a few, can leach into
the ground water, migrate to all of our drinking waters.
This a real concern to me. And when you do expand
the landfill, you increase the chance for this to occur.
The devastating effects of heavy metal contamination on
drinking water is known to many of us, but for me, it's
firsthand.
When I went to graduate school in another state,
lead accidentally did leach into the ground water, and I,
along with several others, were poisoned. For three
years I have been experiencing numerous neurological and
immunological damage from this heavy metal.
There was a two-year old girl in the area who
suffered severe mental retardation, who will be effected
for life.
I'm not here to give a scare out. I'm just saying
that when we look at tipping fees, well, they're
certainly important, and we look at taxes and so forth.
I'm a taxpayer too. These are vital issues, but quality
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of life far exceeds all of them.
I think when we look at expanding a landfill for
another 22 years when our own county staff said that
seven to ten years would be more appropriate, I think we
have to look at this one very, very clearly and look
through it before we make that decision.
I have no qualms whatsoever with Waste Management's
presentation. They obviously know their business very
well. I think it's up to the county though, not Waste
Management, to set a seven-year limit on when this
landfill should be here, how long, and at that point in
time we should move it.
To me, who operates it for those seven years is not
as critical as the fact that we're going to determine, as
a county commission, that indeed, it should be moved.
And just in closing, again, I thank you for
allowing us to give our input, and I encourage you to
please think this through. The decision does not have to
be made in a week, nor in a month. It's too vital a
decision, and I hope that it will be linked with the
other issue, such as alternatives, including the
recycling. I think the two are inseparable and to
determine each one separately is a great mistake.
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Thank you very much.
MR. DORRILL:
be Mr. Perkins.
MS. ABLE: Yes.
Ms. Able, and then following her will
My name is Diane Able. First of
all, I would like to also commend you, Commissioners.
Thank you for having this meeting once again on this
workshop.
Naples' landfill problem, and it is Naples'
problem. Golden Gate is Naples. And I feel that Naples
is being polluted. I feel pollution is a very big
problem.
We all wonder about the smell. The smell has been
brought up several times, and Waste Management has talked
about how they will solve the problem; however, I wonder
how effective that's going to be.
We're very concerned. We're in a very, very
growing area and that's no kidding. You come off 1-75
and you can smell the landfill. You come to the Welcome
Center and you can smell the landfill. You go to the
toll booth, you go to Golden Gate City. It's not just in
Golden Gate Estates. It's a terrible smell.
In the summer when it rains, you can't even stand
it out there. I live very close to it. I live on 29th
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Avenue, and it is very offensive.
I think, perhaps, a landfill should not have been
allowed to be there in the beginning, but now that it is,
I think something has to be done. And the commissioners
have the power not to put a Band-Aid on that issue. They
have the foresight to avoid bigger and future problems.
And we know that time is of essence. And so I
think a lot of us here feel the expansion is still no
longer appropriate. As it seems the delays make your
task a lot more difficult.
I have two questions. Why are we going into
negotiations on a contract to privatize the landfill with
an optimizing criteria before we have really all the
alternatives in on the drawing board and to see how they
may compare and work with other landfill options? One
question I would very much like to see answered.
We do want what's best for a sensitive environment
and community, not a decision based solely on the bottom
line, not because we're under the gun.
And I also want to know if there is an incinerator
in the future.
MR. CONSTANTINE:
No. At the very beginning of
this process we said we were open to all technologies
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except an incinerator. We ruled that out from the very
beginning. As far as the alternative technologies,
Mr. Dorrill, you can help me, I think October 28th?
MR. DORRILL: Proposals for alternative
technologies are due to the county October 28th and will
be evaluated. And the current site has specifically left
a 10-acre tract for a -- some type of processing
facility, be it compost or material processing facility,
or some type of anaerobic digestor.
We don't have any idea what type of alternative
technology proposals. I think it is inevitable, though,
that you're going to have some remaining fraction of
municipal garbage that will need to be processed and
buried as part of that.
There are very few facilities in the country that
have alternative processes that can handle the 700-tons
per day municipal household garbage that we're currently
receiving. Those are due, though, in two weeks.
MS. ABLE: Are there ever explosions at landfills
because of fumes and gases?
have been.
MR. DORRILL:
I think I've read that there
My information is that, honestly,
there are incidences where there are explosions and fires
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attributed to that. We have a series of monitoring wells
for gas collection and density that are monitored and
reported as part of our DEP operating permits, and there
are separate wells that collect and measure the specific
density and gravity of the gas concentrations.
MS. ABLE: For venting purposes? Are they in use
now at the landfills?
MR. DORRILL: There are both vents and then a
series of wet wells that are part of the Leachath
collection system that give us the ability to measure
concentrations of gas at low lying levels.
The vents are near and up the side slopes that are
intended to vent off the gas. But we measure both
subterranean gas levels within the Leachath collection
system. I doubt that we are measuring ambient air type
levels associated with the vents, but staff has said that
we take hand-held measurements there as well.
MS. ABLE: I thank you. And in conclusion, we
voted for you commissioners, at least most of us did, or
you wouldn't be here. We really voted for you to look
out for our best interests, and please don't let us down.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Perkins, and then we'll have, I
believe, it's Mr. Lievense, L-I-E-V-E-N-S-E, if you
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would, please, stand by.
MR. CONSTANTINE: A1, keep it clean.
MR. PERKINS: Ladies and gentlemen, my name's A1
Perkins, and obviously I'm no stranger to the Board, nor
am I a stranger to Golden Gate.
I am going to open with a couple of questions
directed at Waste Management. On the 30 year
post-closure, would the gas that it generates out there
still be present?
Now, the reason why I ask that, ladies and
gentlemen, is on account of, at the last meeting, a
gentleman said that he would buy all of the gas to take
and turn right around and use it to generate energy in a
different form.
He also said at that time that he would take and
have and try to work out a way to pipe some of that gas
down to the water treatment plant and burn off the smell
down there that you're paying $180,000 for chemicals.
How about that?
By the way, last year if you weren't at the
meeting, they paid $268,000 on a survey to find out
whether the dump should be there or not be there, okay.
You know what you got for your money? Bingo.
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The last time it said seven to ten years; different
contractors said 27 years. Now, I'm an advocate of
spending money, but in the right places.
Now, we have a problem and it's not going to go
away. And one of the things that I wished that this was
being televised tonight, because the people sitting home
watching "doofus" and what's his name and the rest of
them, should be paying attention because they're the
first ones to bitch about paying the money, okay?
Waste recovery. We need to put in an area, a
complete waste recovery system that takes and re-uses
everything out of that dump. And what can't be used,
such as composting, can be turned right around and be put
back into the dirt as composts to put things in.
There is nothing out there. I don't know how you
people do it, but I think the good Lord provides us the
stuff to make a mess and the ability to unmake the mess.
Everything's right there in front of you, okay.
Let me go through the stupid list I got here.
Recycling, okay, recycling. We also have a problem with
sewage. Sewage can be converted to diesel fuel, diesel
fuel to electricity, electricity to run this place right
here and the new one next door, run the county
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commission, run the daggon plant out there. Let's put
this on a paying basis.
We have the ability to do it, but you're going to
have to put the pressure on these people right here to
get it done. Now, for two now, or at least a year, I've
been yapping at these -- our commissioners here to find
the information.
I charged one of them to go to Sidney if they have
to and find out. That happens to be Betty Matthews over
here. Sidney's going to put in state of the art
recycling so that they don't have any problem with
anybody in the world, okay.
If we can spend $268,000 on a survey, I'm sure we
can find the money out of the tax money from the Belle
Meade area, which is about $3 million, to send you over
there with the people to get the information to come back
so that we can put this thing on a paying basis.
By the way, nobody said it. Your dump out there is
making money. It's making money, because that $7 million
is to take and go looking for property to buy.
These gentleman here, all lined up over here,
they're not here because they are nice people and they
want to do you a favor, they're here for bucks.
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Now, every one of those people over there has
not -- this is not the first time they've heard me,
because I go head to head with them right on down the
line.
Now, let's go to Pompano Beach. You ever been to
Pompano Beach? My home -- I have a home in Pompano
Beach. My home was there before the dump was there.
Then they start the dump, then that was no good, then
they went to an incinerator; that was no good. Now the
Pompano Beach -- at the corner of Sample Road and --
well, the turnpike's on one side, but it's a university
or -- no, Powerline Road. Powerline and Sample Road,
right? Right now they're taking garbage and making
electricity out of it. The electricity runs snow
machines and puts the snow on it so you can ski down
because that's how high that stinking thing is.
Do you know how big a dump truck is or the garbage
trucks? They look about this big. And the reason why
there's no birds out there and no smell, the altitude's
too high.
MR. CONSTANTINE:
MR. PERKINS:
Okay.
A1, be good.
I'm on a roll, Tim.
Let's get serious now.
I got the crowd.
Nobody's talked --
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everybody's talked about odor and noise, okay. Nobody
said a thing about bacteria to counteract the smell. The
technology is available right now, was available last
year to kill the smell through the use of bacteria. It's
there. I charged it to someone down the line.
I even told Tim, "Go up to Disney World. Find out
how it's done, because they're making bucks with our
trash and garbage." You drink a soda, you throw the can
away, the trash away, they're making good use of it.
Now, we can fall into one or two categories. We
can take and tramp behind our staff here and just do what
was supposed to be done and sound like a bunch of
donkeys, or we can take it by the back end and get nasty
about this thing and demand, demand to put this thing on
a paying basis and a safe basis.
Noise, right? Over in Pompano Beach, you can't
hear; it's too loud. Over here, we have a problem,, we
tell us how to make diesel fuel out of sewage.
have access. Look at how they have to get in off of 951.
That's it. Bad news.
Now, I'm going to take and go for Mr. John Norris
now. He always wants to hear from me at least once.
MR. DORRILL: Before you end, though, I want you to
I'm still
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stuck on that one.
MR. PERKINS: The information is readily available
through the Energy Department for the United States
government in Washington, DC. Now, if you want me to do
your job.
MR. DORRILL: No, sir, I've got 20 million gallons
of sewage that I'm thinking of.
MR. CONSTANTINE: We'll schedule a meeting between
you two. If you'd finish up your comments.
MR. PERKINS: Sewage is a very important thing if
you use it correctly. If you don't, believe me, the
Europeans and the Asians have been using it for years,
but only in a very primitive way. It's there.
Let me get to John here, because he wants to hear
from me, okay. I represent the Belle Meade groups, 3,000
people strong. Sabal Palm people, the Southern Estates
people, the people who are down along Jane Scenic Drive.
These people all show up in the meetings.
Now, I have told the commissioners that the Belle
Meade people want, not a dump and not a landfill, we want
a complete waste recovery unit put out at the
intersections of Sabal Palm Road and Miller Boulevard.
Sabal Palm, all of the traffic from intown goes out
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that road to take and service it. All the traffic from
Marco Island comes up Miller Boulevard, and now all the
stuff from Immokalee can come down Everglades. And not
only that, it's out in the middle of nowhere. We have a
clean start. There is sufficient amount of room. There
is willing sellers out there for the right price. Now,
you'll hear $8,000 from the -- $800 by the
environmentalist.
MR. CONSTANTINE: A1, we have 22 more speakers, so
I do need to get you to sum it up.
MR. PERKINS: This is important, too. Try $18,000
in acres, that's where it's really at. The point is, we
have the ability to do it now. If you don't do it now,
20 years from now the same group of people, only except
it's going to be your kids and grandchildren, is going to
be sitting in here doing the same thing as we're doing
tonight.
So you better take and talk to your neighbors. We
need to get this thing televisedo We need to get
everybody in this community, that includes Marco Island,
Pelican Bay, Port Royal, Immokalee, because they're all
involved. They're all going to pay for this thing. So
we need to take up and get up off your duffs.
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The media. I like to pick on the media. Start
telling the truth and tell all of it. Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Lievense, and then following him,
I have Mr. Gene Cox. Mr. or Ms. Cox.
Mr. Lievense, go ahead.
MR. LIEVENSE: My name is Karl Lievense. I've
just -- we've been accumulating some data. That's just
information that's off the shelf that's available for
people to see.
One item I left with Mr. Constantine. In 1988, I
believe, the county did a study on alternative sites.
There were 14 approved; 8 still look good out of that
group.
There are probably two or three that could be
reviewed, to take care of Mr. Jenkins' comments and Al's
comments. The county has paid for the study. It's on
the shelf down at Solid Waste. It's available to at
least review it, address it, because of the comments you
have.
Also, I've just dropped off with each of the
commissioners some other general information. This was a
final report on Waste Management that was put together.
I'll read, basically, In 1990, Waste Management filed a
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permit, to use the permit, seeking privately owned and
operational landfill site to be located in -- near San
Diego.
They were asked on November 22nd, the Board passed
a resolution asking the District Attorney to conduct an
investigation. Basically, it was asked to check into
allegations of price-fixing and other anti-trust
violations, allegations of criminal conduct, allegations
of environmental contamination and illegal dumping of
toxic and hazardous material, allegations of inadequate
liability insurance held by Waste Management on their
municipal and hazardous wastes operations, allegations of
organized crime connections.
I do not have time to read this whole thing. Each
one of you have this before you, yellow lined. It hits a
lot of the different areas of environmental problems.
Greenpeace as estimated since 1980, the company has
paid over $43 million in
out-of-court settlements
violations of environmet
environmental problem.
632.
There's a lot of
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information to help make decisions. I'm not saying a lot
of these, since they've been passed, they've been
possibly corrected. But the general direction is for
your own information to help you make better decisions
for Collier County, for the voters, our present and
future people.
There's interesting areas with the significant
environmental cases going through the different states.
Several of the states, Wisconsin, the largest fine ever
addressed was to Waste Management. It gets into a lot of
the chemical waste problems. As you go through here,
again; I do not have time for every one. This is public
knowledge. It was a report put together talking about
all the different connections with -- not with
necessarily the company, but all the people who are
associated with the company.
In conclusion, Waste Management methods of doing
business, the history of civil and criminal violations,
established a predictable pattern, which has been fairly
consistent over a significant number of years.
"The history of the company presents a
combination of environmental and anti-trust
violations and pubic corruption cases which
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must be viewed with considerable concern.
Waste Management has been capable of absorbing
enormous fines and other sanctions levied
against it while still maintaining a high
earnings ratio. We do not know whether these
sanctions had any punitive effect on the
company, or have merely been considered as
additional operating expenses.
We have reviewed recent practices and
problems and our concerns have not diminished.
The company's recent business practices and
violations do not appear to be different than
the past. We have been unable to determine
whether Waste Management's history, as
reflected by this report, has been due to a
failure of property management, or has been the
result in deliberate corporate policy.
Whatever the case, the company's history
requires extreme caution by the San Diego
County Board of Supervisors or any other
governmental entity contemplating any
contractual or business relation with Waste
Management."
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Our examination of the activities of Waste
Management causes us additional concern, and so on.
I'm just saying, it's information. It's data based
compliance, due diligence, to make correct decisions for
the next 50 years.
MR. VOLPE: I appreciate that information. Could I
ask who you represent?
MR. LIEVENSE: I'm a concerned citizen, and I'm
also with a firm called Bare Have (phonetic) out of
Atlanta, Georgia, and we do landfill reclamation, so, yes
I'm concerned.
MR. VOLPE:
Are you a resident of Collier County.
MR. LIEVENSE: I am. I'm a voting resident of
Collier County for the last 18 years.
One comment. Collier County has an internationally
accepted and recognized award winning landfill. There
are people coming here from China, Mexico, all over the
world because you've done things here. They've gotten
awards through Harvard called the Ford Foundation.
You're doing wonderful things here that are being looked
at by the rest of the world as a test. And you've
learned. This is an incubator. It's some great stuff.
This stuff is happening and moving, and the rest of
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the world is looking at you because you're doing it
right. And you know, I'm just saying, this is all food
for thought.
Thank you for keeping this open so at least we all
have a chance to share thoughts and ideas for the best
long-term value of the county. Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Following Mr. Cox, we'll have
Mr. Fahey.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Just one comment before Mr. Cox,
because Mr. Jenkins had mentioned earlier, and it was
mentioned then, of the alternative sites we have in our
report. So whether it's 10 years from now or 12 years
from now or 7 years from now, whenever we decide to go
elsewhere, one of things I think the Board discussed
informally last time we talked about this, and I will
suggest when the time comes, is we have -- whether we
privatize or we do not privatize, we have $7 million set
aside right now for future needs of our landfill. And
I'm going to suggest that we use that money now to
determine a location, buy it, and start the prepping, so
we don't end up with the next Commission changing their
mind again and so on. We can put it in concrete now.
Mr. Cox.
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MR. COX: My name is Gene Cox, a taxpayer of
Naples, Collier County. Most of my questions have been
answered by previous speakers; however, I have one, and I
don't think it's been addressed yet.
I'm concerned about the inspection of the liners in
the cells over at the peer, and I didn't hear anything
addressed on that.
The other thing that concerns me is that we have
all this money out there in the landfill, we have all
these unused cells and everything, and it must amount to
millions of dollars. And if we give this landfill to a
proposed or prospective bidder, we're going to give him
millions of dollars, and the taxpayers have already paid
for it. No wonder he can afford to have such a low
tipping fee.
The other thing that I'm concerned with, since I'm
a taxpayer, is the fact that we have this landfill. Why
don't we use it properly? Why doesn't the county put
these gas monitoring devices in there, and why don't we
recycle it. We can use this landfill indefinitely
without orders (Sic). Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Following Mr. Fahey will be
Mr. Turner, Bernard Turner.
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MR. FAHEY: Thank you, Commissioners. My name is
Bob Fahey. And as a newly retired citizen of Collier
County, I would like to raise a couple of points.
There has been some discussion this evening about
what kind of resources you must maintain. The county
must maintain on a continuous basis -- and this is
directly by the state -- a 10-year resource for the solid
waste management capability.
In addition, there must be two years of
advance-lined cell. So if you have made the decision or
if you're contemplating a change or a different location,
I would urge you to do that as soon as you can, simply
because it takes a considerable time to prepare a site.
And we can never currently disregard the potential of a
hurricane here.
If you look at the history of what happened at
Homestead and up the coast and the year prior to that,
their existing landfill capacity was immediately wiped
out. So if you can define and acquire the next site and
we have the money to do that, there would be a great
advantage at that point to begin using that as soon as
you can. And if there is surplus excess capacity at the
present site, then I would suggest you preserve that in
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the event we do have a hurricane. Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Following Mr. Turner we'll have
Mr. McLean, Gerald McLean.
MR. FAHEY: My name is Bernard Turner. I'd like to
thank the Commission and staff for enabling me to be here
this evening.
Let me briefly go back in time so that I can
explain why I'm here tonight. A number of months ago I
attended a session that the county held at which one of
the concerned citizens got up and said, "Well, I hope the
Commission will not exclude new people, new interests,
innovation, and what have you, with regard to exposure to
the landfill problem solution."
I'm not familiar with that technical kind of an
arena, but I was very much concerned. I don't live in
the area where the landfill is, but I was really
concerned about the problems that became evident.
And I got in touch with a couple of experts here,
and we formed a corporation called Environmental
Reclamation Services, and we were one of the six who
filed the proposals, and were one of the three, I guess,
who were excluded from it. And I don't have any, you
know, complaints about that. We tried, what have you.
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And the reason I'm stating this is because that's
where my awareness was developed, and I'd like to make
just a few comments, and these would apply to, generally
to Waste Management, but to any corporation that the
Commission is going to consider in terms of contractual
negotiations.
It seems to me that the Commission and all of us
are faced with a number of dilemmas. And you have the
quandary of optimizing the landfill, or you could swiftly
close it. This is a quandary. You can keep it going for
20 years, or you can close in five or six or seven or ten
years. And there are techniques that are available that
can enable you to endlessly have an existing landfill
without closure, almost an unlimited amount of time.
I think the point that was made earlier is really a
worry of significant consideration, and that is the
importance of the human element here as distinct from
economics.
Another point I would like to make -- and I
reviewed a number of these submissions -- is the danger
of vagueness that occurs in the actual writing of the
proposal.
What happens is that in the normal progress of the
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procedures, there is a time element that you come up, for
example, to the point and time when you want to sit down
and negotiate, and you find yourself with a document that
may have 40 or 50 paragraphs that are truly vague,
generally. And you've got a time crunch. And the staff
and the Commission are then put under that kind of a form
of pressure. And I would like you to just listen to that
bit, because I think it's a reality, and you'll have to
contend with that.
In general, what I'm asking is: Are we truly
getting the specifics of the objectives that were
outlined to us months ago, or are we going to deal with
generalities, which in time will haunt us, or with
omissions of that in the future will only escalate the
cost that we're all expected to pay?
I thank you very much for listening to me.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Maclean and then Mrs. Stamatinos.
Mr. McLean, go ahead.
MR. MCLEAN: My name is Gerald McLean. Landfills
are something that, I guess, nobody wants in their
backyard.
live with.
is in our recycling.
I guess it's something that we all have to
But I think where we're missing a lot of it
Recycling is something that we all
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have to do.
I looked up and down the streets of Golden Gate
today about -- it has to be less than 10 percent of the
people that are recycling, and I think part of this is
because they're not being educated as far as recycling.
We can extend that landfill for many years by
recycling. We've got to hit 30 percent, according to the
state, next year. We can do 50 percent, and it will
work, because I've made it work.
I've taken a resort down in the Keys that was
paying $18,00 a year -- a month, trash fee. Their bill
was cut to $8,000 a month. We can do it right here in
this community, too, but we've got to recycle.
Cardboard. There is -- I don't know of any place
to take cardboard other than that one there in Naples.
Cardboard is like in your biggest thing that goes into
that dump, and none of the commercial places have any
place to put it.
We've got to get more of those places, and we've
got to get more education to those people. We've got to
get more of 'these containers to these people, and we've
got to get Waste Management to pick it up.
Today all the boxes in Golden Gate were not picked
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up by Waste Management. People are creatures of habit.
If they can't be picked up every day, then they're in for
changes. You're going to stop recycling, and recycling
has to happen, folks.
We've got to leave something behind for these kids
that are coming behind us. And that's where it counts,
that we've got to start turning and make it absolutely
work. Thank you, folks; thank you, Commissioners.
MR. DORRILL: Following Ms. Stamatinos we'll have
Mr. Donald Dunmire, if you would, please.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He~s gone home.
MR. DORRILL: Then we'll have Mr. Wilt. Mr. Wilt,
if you'll come forward. Ms. Stamatinos, go ahead,
please.
MS. STAMATINOS: My name is Mary Stamatinos at 2859
50th Terrace Southwest in Golden Gate. At the risk of
repeating some things that have been said, a landfill is
a landfill is a landfill. I'm against privatizing and
also keeping the operation in it's present location.
Golden Gate and Golden Gate Estates are, in
particular, are part of a growing community, and the
present site to not a proper site for this type of place.
And it is much -- this area is not in the boondocks
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anymore. I have been here five years, and it is much
more populated now than it was then, and the population
is growing every day.
I do not think this is in the interest or benefit
to the residents of Collier County at its present
location. This is a closed-in area, and it is the
gateway to Naples on 1-75 from the east coast. We do not
need to have a landfill in our front door. Do you keep
the trash at your front door?
As mentioned by other speakers, I do not appreciate
the idea of perpetuating the landfill operation, and in
addition to that, bringing the garbage of Immokalee here.
And referring again to the closeness of the
location to populated areas, this landfill, by its
presence, is hampering the potential and development of
land around it and lowering the boundaries.
And in closing, Mr. Volpe, and with all due
respect, you're asking the representative of Waste
Management to tell you about the land values, was like --
that was not being very objective.
Thank you.
MR. DORRILL:
you will stand by.
Following Mr. Wilt, Mr. Keller, if
Mr. Wilt.
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MR. WILT: Good evening, Commissioners. My name is
Glenn Wilt; I'm a resident of Golden Gate. I've prepared
a few comments for this evening.
In September, 1993, as you mentioned before, the
Board of Commissioners rang the bell for closures in 7 to
10 years, this landfill. They determined that time the
horizontal expansion of the landfill at the county road
951, 1-75, was no longer appropriate due to residential
development in the area. That's what my memory serves me
from last year.
Residential development has not stopped, but has,
in fact, increased in the area. The southwestern part of
Florida is one of the fastest growing areas in the
country.
Now, you're considering a move to privatize and
expand vertically? One of the major objections of the
present landfill location is continuous foul odors
spreading across the area. To that regard, within the
past two months, citizens of Golden Gate have formed a
resident homeowners committee to clean up and beautify
the Gate.
Before I proceed, let me interject here.
up is progressing very nicely.
The clean
We're making a lot of
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progress. One major factor affecting our success is a
complete and energetic support of the Code Enforcement
Office of Collier County. In particular, Chuck Tomasino,
our sole local Code Enforcement, he hates all of them by
now, I think.
Now back to the odor. I do not believe the
residents should be forced to live with foul and
offensive odor. That is also an area that needs to be
cleaned up in Golden Gate. I have read the Executive
Summary prepared by staff that points out privatizing the
landfill will make the contractor responsible for odor
control.
The summary states that the private contractor can
control the odor and do all these things at a very low,
low rate. In fact, it's almost too good to be true.
If it's so easy to do, why hasn't the county done
it? However, it is my understanding that there is
$800,000 targeted in the 1994/95 budget for a gas
management system at the landfill. If that's correct, at
least that's a start.
The next item of concern to me is the increased
elevation for a waste barrier. The staff's proposal is
to raise the allowable elevation from the current
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permitted 108.5 feet to 155 feet. I'll be the first to
admit I'm not a surveyor, but I question a balloon at 175
feet cannot be seen from 1-75.
Thus, if the increased elevation is permitted,
whether the landfill's privatized or not, there will rise
on the southeast corner of Golden Gate, Mount Christmore
(phonetic).
Privatization versus county operation. The summary
points out that privatization and loss of land ownership
will relieve the county of any environmental impact.
Any contracting firm is going to ensure the county
it is environmentally responsible for all existing
conditions at the time of the contract . This could be a
real nightmare if you put an additional 50 feet -- 50
plus feet of waste on top of what is there now.
The summary does point out that environmental
impact insurance is available. I would think that this
would be a priority action for the county to investigate
whether the landfill is privatized or not.
Completion of the contract and privatizing the
landfill would allow the demobilization for the current
personnel equipment. This is first blood to show us a
significant savings; however, what happens at the end of
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five years or before when the contractor wants out for
cause, or he is losing money and wants to double the
tipping rates?
The county then must bite the bullet and invest a
tremendous amount of capitol funds to re-establish
personnel equipment and expertise or give way to
commercial blackmail.
Privatization will cause a loss of flexibility and
control by county managers and our elected
representatives. A recent action by a local citizen
group resulted in a single lawyer facing the commercial
contractor and his bevy of lawyers in the Commissioner's
Hearing Room. Thus, privatization and a loss of
flexibility is quite well known to the summary in Golden
Gate.
Physical impact. The summary points out that
through privatization and using the Waste Management
figures, the current annual assessment per household of
$102.59, could be reduced to approximately $91.74 per
year per household. Cheaper is not always better.
Personally, I am not prepared to continue to live
in an odorous atmosphere for a savings to me of 93 cents
a month. I don't think anyone else in Golden Gate is
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either.
In summary, a year ago you rang the bell for
closure when you decided the prudent thing to do was
start the action of locating, securing and permitting
another site. With a $7-million reserve fund available,
it is still the prudent thing to do today. Locate,
secure and obtain permits for a new site. You cannot
unring the bell.
I thank you for allowing me to address.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Mr. Keller, before you start, we
are going the take a brief break so we can change paper
so we can continue to maintain a record. We'll just take
a three or four minute break.
(Brief recess was held.)
MR. CONSTANTINE: Let's go ahead and start in
again. I understand we still have 11.
MR. DORRILL: Halfway, 15.
MR. CONSTANTINE: We still have 15 more speakers.
Mr. Keller, if you would like to go ahead.
MR. DORRILL: Following Mr. Keller we'll have
Mr. Pickworth. Mr. Pickworth, if you'd be prepared.
Mr. Keller, go head.
MR. KELLER:
Okay, as long as it's quiet. I'm
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George Keller, Civic Leader. I've been in the county 15
years representing the Civic Association; Marco Island
right up to Bonita Shores, and I do it free. I'm very
much involved in what happens in Collier County.
I'm not going to stand here and say we shouldn't do
this or we don't this or do that, but I will say this:
That we've got plenty of time to sort of give this thing
plenty of analysis and decide what we want to do, because
we've got $7 million and we should be starting to look
for someplace to put this dump, because it's going to
have to be put someplace else sooner or later. So let's
make that one of our priorities.
Secondly, I understand we're going to have some
input on other ways of handling wastes, and there are
plenty of other ways, and that's going to come in near
the end of October, so we're not in a big rush to go and
sign any contracts right now.
Thirdly, I would like to go and give you some of my
experiences on these contracts. I was on the committee
that -- with the resource recoveries some years ago. And
you know, the people that presented the proposal did a
tremendous job.
We were going to be have waste there for $9 a ton
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originally. It went up to $14 a ton. We spent half a
million dollars, almost, for a contract , and after about
six months, the County Commissioners decided they were
not sure what was going to happen, so they appointed a
committee of about 10 people, lawyers, accountants,
bankers, to go and review the contract and review the
process.
And after about 12 sessions, we come up with the
suggestion that we throw the whole thing out, and that's
what they did. So anything that happens here tonight or
what happens sometime in the next couple of months,
shouldn't be taken lightly, and we shouldn't be jumping
at anything, basically speaking.
So that is my recommendation, and I think that the
county should definitely decide to set up a committee,
after they do all of the groundwork and get all of the
facts together so we know what we're talking about, then
set up a committee to review this thing and recommend to
the county whether we should go ahead with this contract
or what method we should use to handle our waste problems
in the future.
Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Pickworth and then Ms. Dunmire.
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UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Was that Ms. Dunmire?
MR. DORRILL: I believe so, Viola?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes. She had to leave.
MR. DORRILL: Thank you. Then we'll have
Mr. Jenkins. Mr. Pickworth.
MR. PICKWORTH: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, I'm
Don Pickworth. I'm a resident of Naples. I represent
Addington Environmental, which was one of the proposers
on the RFP. We were not the number one ranked proposers,
and the county chose to go with Waste Management, and we
certainly appreciate the opportunity to at least address
We appreciate the fairness in doing
you here tonight.
that.
I'm not here to talk about our proposal. Addington
responded to the RFP, which was to maximize the landfill
capacity, and in fact, found a way to get quite a bit
more life out of the landfill than what you and the other
proposers had, and obviously, that was not exactly the
direction that many people favor. We came up with even
more years.
And the county's action is to, at least
preliminary, negotiate with the company that, obviously,
it's not the -- doesn't optimize the landfill capacity.
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We don't even think it's the most efficient long term
solution for handling the solid waste needs.
We don't think the county necessarily ought to
continue in this site for, I think it was 24.3 years.
That's the number that was in the Executive Summary on
that one proposal.
And because the current site, for a number of
reasons, is probably inadequate, it's certainly closer to
growing in a residential area. It's located in a
relatively low-lying area, causing increased construction
environmental permitting, monitoring costs, has no
on-site cover. There's a lot of cost to acquire covering
material.
We believe that the landfill should be operated for
10 years and then closed, and then during that period,
the county ought to find an alternative site. And we
would urge you to postpone negotiations further until
you've examined this proposal. And having examined that,
if the determination is to go with the shorter life, to
provide opportunities to other qualified vendors in the
field to also make you proposals on the cost implications
of that.
We think a proposal like that would have a number
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of advantages. Certainly the county has been mentioned
by a number of people here tonight as already having a
fund of money to use for acquisition and permitting of
the new site.
Addington stands ready to make you a proposal if
that is -- if your desire is to go with a shorter site
life, and we think it will be a very substantially
reduced tipping fee.
Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Jenkins, and then Ms. Delate.
MR. JENKINS: Good evening, Commissioners,
Mr. Dorrill. Just a couple things that haven't been
covered yet.
As you were talking before about having the height
from 108 to 155 feet, if do you that and you make one big
flat mountain out of it, any time the equipment is up
top, there's nothing to break -- there is no barrier.
Whenever you get up so high, there is no barrier for the
noise, so that even if you do start from one side and
come up, every time the equipment gets up top, you're
going to be hearing it again. You know, that's just --
it's not going to be a barrier and the sound will
carry -- the higher you go, the further the sound is
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going to carry.
And one of the other problems I have is if we have
problems with service and everything is privatized down,
then we don't -- we can't go to the county because the
county's out of it completely. All we have is whatever
the privatized company is to go to.
And as far as any monitoring problems, as far as
the water, the sound, any of the problems that we have on
the monitoring, I think that should be done by the
county. I don't believe we should let the private -- if
it goes to a privatized group, I don't think they should
be able to monitor themselves.
I fully agree that we need to select a site right
now and purchase it at today's rate instead of tomorrow's
rates, and we definitely need to put a limit on the site
now. And when we build a new site, it needs to be large
enough to extend -- needs to be a site that will -- that
you can start with a reclamation facility and not just a
landfill.
And like I said, the county needs do to all of its
monitoring, not let a privatized group monitor
themselves. And basically that's all I have to say.
I really want to thank you for the last two years
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of putting up with us.
MR. DORRILL:
Mr. Zak.
MS. DELATE: Hi.
the Golden Gate Estates.
Thank you.
Following Ms. Delate we'll have
I'm Ruth Delate, and I live in
And I thank you for letting us
speak here tonight. And I appreciate what Tim's doing
for us. I think he's listening. I don't know about the
rest of you, but we're all hoping you are.
First of all, I want to ask you a question. Waste
Management is on stock exchange. Why would they want to
invest in a losing business for their stock holder? They
obviously desire our landfill to make a large profit.
Now, why can't the county make this same large profit?
These are my objectives for you for the landfill.
The county, to retain their ownership, enclosed a
landfill in seven years or less -- I know a lot of you
said this, and this is repetitive -- and find, buy and
obtain the permit for the new site, and no expansion of
the present site, vertically or horizontally, and
immediate reduction of odors.
Six, explore alternatives, including composting,
recycling, et cetera, and link this with privatization
proposals, and to ensure any landfill meets and is
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operated within all federal, state, regional and county
environmental laws and monitoring requirements to protect
the human health and our environment, and no vote on this
whole issue until all matters are thoroughly
investigated.
Thisis one question I do want answered, if you
can. Waste Management has proposed spending $250,000 for
a gas management system while our county proposed to
spend $800,000. How can there be such a difference?
Does anyone know an answer? Well, maybe it's a long
answer, but couldn't we move into the 21st Century with
all this?
Thank you.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Mr. Dorrill, if we don't have an
answer, perhaps we can have one prepared for us in the
next several days.
MR. DORRILL: Following Mr. Zak, I believe, it's
Mr. Marsein, M-A-R-S-E-I-N.
I can answer that question for you,
MS. DELATE:
gentlemen.
MS. MARCIS:
MR. DORRILL:
Marcis?
Could be: 23rd Avenue Southwest.
Mr. Zak, if you will please, sir, go ahead.
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MR. ZAK: Thank you. Good evening, folks, I'm on
your turf tonight, not theirs. I've spoke before in
front of them, and I won't make it too long, I hope.
I came here, to be blatantly honest, and it's not
going to be Chicken Little, it's fat. I've done a lot of
homework so I can do this presentation properly, and I'm
going to answer a lot of questions.
I wish I could have done Waste Management's
proposal tonight because I could've answered sincerely
and honestly their questions that sort of got pushed
around.
The county probably knows what I want to bring up.
I have a report from Clear Plane (phonetic), that the
county paid for, that absolutely, positively puts that
landfill in such a position that it should be closed now,
not even in seven years. The reason why is, it simply is
the fact that they have a composition of methane, carbon
dioxide, and unbelievable levels of hydrogen sulfide.
Now to your nose, hydrogen sulfide is that rotten
egg smell. I just got done with an engineering firm in
Massachusetts that was talking about 500 parts per
million in their landfill. We have a report here which,
again, is a report paid for by the county, 13,000 parts
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per million. Lethal is 1,000 part per million. This
stuff will kill ya.
Now, I can stand here all night and show you memos
that came out of their files starting back in November
9th of 1993, where somebody had noticed that they had a
high concentration of gas.
December 9th of 1993, Mr. Lorenz and other people
made a notes of it to make sure they post a "Danger. No
smoking. Explosive Gas."
On the December 10th memo, they told the sheriff's
department, the Collier County Emergency Coordinators
Office, the Golden Gate Fire Department, the FDEP, and
they hired a fence contractor to start isolating zones
because of high concentrations of hydrogen sulfide and
other gases. On December 15th, they did go ahead and
hire this firm that stated that they made this report.
Now, the county's stated to come agree that they
felt the company may have overembellished because it may
have been self-serving. Let's accept that. Let's accept
that. Let's say the company did exaggerate the numbers.
Even though they have a Ph.D., do it. They used EPA
study guides, and they used all sorts of study guides,
and they over-exaggerated the facts.
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What we have here on December 16th, 1993, it says,
"Explosive Gas." And they repeated themselves by putting
out this memo that stated that -- they notified all the
departments about the potentials of explosion.
Now mind you, you have visitors, you have employees
and you have children and people that go into that place
on the weekends when that place is closed. Now, that's a
fact.
The county even considered putting up a fence
completely around it to keep the children out of there
that pick through the rubbish over the weekends and get
little things out of it. Everybody, I guess, plays in
landfills.
Now, they agreed to some mitigation measures --
measures in this memo. And the one thing that I find so
fascinating are these different things, seven inch
diameter well, and blah-blah-blah. It says, "The Solid
Waste Department is currently evaluating the feasibility
of landfill gas utilization."
Now this is in 1993, December 16th. This
landfill's been around since 1980 or prior, and there's a
record of gas being there in the early 80's. Fifteen
years of wasted gas. Fifteen years of wasted resources
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and wasted revenue to this county. I look at you and I
ask you, is this good management?
On February 8th of '94 --
MR. CONSTANTINE: Mr. Zak, I'm not sure where
you're headed, but we're going to keep you to the
five-minute limit because we've still got 12 more
speakers.
MR. ZAK: Excuse me, sir. But if these people let
me speak, I'm going to speak to them.
MR. NORRIS: Excuse me, Mr. Zak, this is our
meeting, not yours.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Tell you what, Mr. Zak. After
everyone else has had an opportunity to speak and is
satisfied that they've had an opportunity to speak, if
you want to come back to the podium, great. But there
are 12 other people that would like an opportunity to
speak tonight, too.
MR. ZAK: I apologize. Anyway, I'll summarize
quickly.
The natural gas, Caterpillar, -- I don't work for
Caterpillar. This is free, they will design this system,
install the system, finance the system, and can start
making electricity tomorrow for free. The reason why is
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because the federal government states that the Florida
Power and Light must buy the electricity. The idea is
for the county to negotiate a price, and there you are.
There's your odor and the money coming back to you.
One more point since I have a cutoff. I want to
bring up one thing I think is very important. In this
report, gypsum particles -- or fiber board is mentioned
as the generator of hydrogen sulfide. And in the
directives here, they put that gypsum in an unlined pit.
So when that gentleman spoke tonight about the compaction
and he spoke about the possibility of leaching into the
water table, what you're dealing with here is simply the
fact that the hydrogen sulfide, water and sulfuric
acid -- and if they compact as tight as they claim, if
the gas can come out, it's going to go down -- it's going
to go somewhere. It's in the report.
The biggest contributor -- and I'll get done. The
biggest contributor they said was the construction
industry, residents paying a $25 tipping fee,
construction people were paying $15 -- and they just got
a reduction of $12 a ton. Why? Why are we subsidizing
the construction industry in this community, and yet the
product that they're putting out there is a generator of
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danger.
Thank you.
MR. CONSTANTINE: We certainly don't want to spend
too much time dwelling on it, but I rest assured, you're
not subsidizing the construction industry.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Marsein or Marsein on 23rd Avenue
Southwest. Is that you, sir?
MR. MARCIS: No, 44th Terrace.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Krasowski, If you would, please,
sir, and following him Mr. Capone, if you would stand by.
MS. KRASOWSKI: Good evening, Commissioners. My
name is Bob Krasowski. I live in North Naples, but I
feel like I'm part of Golden Gate sometimes. People out
here are really very nice.
I don't want to repeat what so many people have
a].ready said, although I agree with most of the things
that were said.
I'm very interested in what Mr. Zak has brought up
over the past couple of meetings. I Just would like to
say that I'm very -- I don't want to thank anybody
because I really don't think the citizens should thank
you, the politicians, you know. It's like a mutual
symbiotic relationship, but I must say that we appreciate
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the efforts Mr. Constantine has made in keeping it a
community issue and the evolution process we've gone
through.
If it wasn't for him, this issue might have been
decided on three or four weeks ago. But with him
requiring that the issue be brought to another Commission
Meeting, which then permitted the suggestion for it to be
brought back for the people of Golden Gate, or the county
as a whole. I hope the people do not forget that when it
comes time for you to proceed on to other areas of
interest. I think it can do us well, and this is coming
from a Democrat. I'll probably get thrown out. But
let's see, you owe me for that.
Okay. What I've heard -- I've checked the RFP I
looked through the proposals. I've been interested in
this solid waste issue in Collier County for the past 10
years, you know, starting with the incinerator.
Years ago I was interested in recycling. You know,
many, many people were composting.
I'm a gardener. This
issue evolves over the years.
more progress.
We've been making more and
I think if -- and the people tonight have
contributed greatly to identifying the areas where we
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must go to develop our understanding of the variables
involved here and the options we have.
So for my -- in my perception, privatization is not
the way to go now as it's identified in regards to our
landfill situation, because what we lose first with the
privatization is flexibility and control. We lose the
flexibility because every time, from the point -- from
the period you signed that contract , regardless of the
arrangement, another party will be brought in before we
can accomplish anything from that point on. It will be
the lawyers and the managers and everyone involved with
Waste Management. Now, flexibility and control. It's
the same thing; they're interchangeable.
I could stand up here and beat up on Waste
Management, and, you know, from some of the things I've
read, if I were to believe it all, they deserve it, you
know. But I know some of the stuff I read is information
coming from one side of the environmental battle that
we've been going through for years in this country. So
some of it might be exaggerated.
But like the -- this document I have here, it's a
corporate profile of Waste Management. It shows a lot of
the different political situations they've been involved
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in, the fines that they've paid. It states that they've
been involved in 16 of the original 30 superfund cleanup
siteS. One of the gentleman in Waste Management
explained to me that some of those sites they took over.
It wasn't their doing at first, but some of them were.
Waste Management does not have a good reputation in
this community. Now, I don't know why exactly that is,
but it probably has something to do with word-of-mouth.
That's the greatest advertiser. So I don't think people
feel comfortable having them -- being in a situation
where they'll take over control of the landfill. I
certainly don't feel very comfortable with it. I think
it's a big marketing, business-type thing. It's not
something we need -- really need now.
What I'd like to suggest here, I know what I'm
going to do. I'm going to get together with a bunch of
these people in the audience that have spoken tonight and
get together with some of the staff, county staff, and
investigate the various aspects of the different, you
know, landfill options. And I must say the staff's been
very cooperative in providing me information. When I
want to ask them something, they explain it to me.
But I think, you know, like this is a $120, $150,
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$180 million deal. We have to look into the finances of
this a little more closely than we have in regards to our
proposal or what our options are on the -- in response to
the RFP And Commissioner Matthews, before she left, to
take care of very important business, undoubtedly,
explained to me that she would participate in a joint
citizen/county evaluation of the economics regarding this
so we can come to a better understanding with the
community at large.
Mr. Keller; I asked him if he'd be interested in
doing the same. He said he'd be available. So this is
the beginning, I think, of an economic review.
I would like to hear from the commissioners that a
decision has been made to not finalize anything as far as
an arrangement to privatize or otherwise until at least
the RFP's, requests for proposals, the proposals of an
alternative technology have been received, and evaluate
them as to how they influence the waste stream (Sic).
There's a lot that might happen, and it's going to
affect the tipping fee of what's going on in the
landfill. So really, there is -- I don't see how we
could make a decision and lock into a contract that would
further complicate whatever we do until after we find out
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what kind of alternative proposal technology we will or
will not be going to.
You know, the odor -- Waste Management, as I
understand, runs the Lee County Landfill, and I'm told
the odor's pretty strong up there. I don't think anybody
mentioned that before.
The question about the money spent on handling the
odor of the gas problems, that's a really good one. I'd
like to see the answer to that. As far as I see, also,
being that I follow a lot of these issues over a period
of time, many of these issues have been developed and
positioned and a lot of research has been done by the
county staff, and they're kind of on the brink of
implementing many of these things like gas control. I
mean, they're halfway to doing it. There's money in the
budget next year, odor control through gas burn off,
flare-up, you know. Why give it away now?
Mr. Zak; you know, I moan, if ho'~ hale accurate,
right, what we have is this resource, this access to a
certain extent or something positive in regards to the
value of a landfill site, and we want to -- I knew one of
the proposers. I don't know if it's -- what people have
talked about now, but it appeared to me that you guys
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wanted to give away the landfill to Waste Management and
the -- without evaluating what value the gas would have
or the recyclables or the land. Some places when they
finish with the landfill, they top it off, and they do
recreational parks and slides. If we don't own it, then
we don't benefit from that.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Steve.
MS. KRASOWSKI: Okay. So that pretty much makes up
for me. I just -- I'm feeling now that they're not a
purview in doing that if we are going to evaluate all of
the options and not do anything too soon before everybody
has an opportunity to evaluate. My name's Bob.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Thank you, Bob.
MR. DORRILL:
Mr. Capone.
MR. CAPONE:
Mr. Marcis following Mr. Capone.
My name is John Capone. I'm a
resident of East Naples.
MR. CONSTANTINE:
too.
And a tough guy to get a hold of
MR. CAPONE: Excuse me?
MR. CONSTANTINE: And a tough guy to track down on
the telephone.
MR. CAPONE:
I'm pretty busy. I'm a public health
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technologist, and I'd just like to make sure that the
public's aware of some of the dangers of landfill gases,
as Mr. Zak has stated.
Now, there is a big difference between odor and air
pollution. And what comes off of the landfill is
definitely air pollution. It implies health risk in the
form of H2S. One of the more dangerous things about H2S
is that, once you inhale it, it destroys the linings in
your respiratory system and inhibits you from smelling it
to any greater concentration. In other words, once you
start to inhale it, you can't really tell that you're
breathing it and you can't tell how much more you're
And that is a normal gas that comes out of the
That's not something that's abnormal. That's
inhaling.
landfill.
normal.
And the other gas, methane.
One of the dangers
that no one has mentioned is the fact that, other than
it's flammable, is that it is, in fact, odorless, and the
only way to tell that it's there is through, you know,
meter devices, whatever.
I have a couple of questions I'd like to direct
towards Waste Management very briefly. What is the
current height, maximum height, of a currently operating
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landfill in South Florida that you operate?
MR. SMITH: Our Waste Management central disposal
landfill and recycling facility in Pompano Beach is
permitted at about 210 feet. There is --
MR. CAPONE: Okay. With the -- given the heat and
the humidity in South Florida and the intense pressure of
going from something like 100 feet to close to 200 feet,
don't you feel that that is a risk -- you're at risk of
spontaneous combustion occurring?
MR. SMITH: These are not feelings. I don't have
feelings about these things, they're permits, there is
legal requirements, there is technical requirements.
We're well within all those requirements. It's not a
feeling, this is fact.
MR. CAPONE: So what you're saying is that you have
not had any spontaneous combustion in any of your
landfills?
MR. SMITH: I'm not aware of spontaneous combustion
in any of our landfills.
MR. CAPONE: Are you aware of the spontaneous
combustions that is occurring in Statin Island at the
present time in New York State?
MR. SMITH: No, I'm not.
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MR. CAPONE: It is a severe public health problem.
And the smoke coming from that particular site is -- just
happened out of nowhere and it just started recently.
And you know that is always a possibility. And down here
with the added heat and humidity, I think we're at more
of a risk of that happening than the northern states
even. So I just wanted, very briefly, to make sure the
public is aware of what is going on, and that's all I
have to say.
Thank you.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Let me interject one thing. I,
knowing the Waste Management proposal, the increased
height only accounted for, I think, 2.4 years of that
total amount. So that's something that -- because of the
vision, and those are some of the other potential
concerns. I think that's something the Board can look
at.'
I don't think that's going to have -- overall,
going to have an impact if we opt not to increase it to
155, if we opt to privatize.
MR. DORRILL:
Mr. Marcis.
MR. MARCIS:
Mr. Marcis, then Mr. Stewart.
My name is Dan Marcis, and I live on
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44th Terrace Southwest, and I appreciate the County
Commissioners giving us this opportunity so that we can
present our thoughts.
Most of what I wanted to talk about has been
covered, but I would like for the County Commissioners to
think about, seriously, getting a new site because I
lived here before the landfill was started. And I know
back in '76, they didn't have the stringent requirements,
and I'm not so sure that anyone knows what the condition
of the liners are at this time. And I do know, at that
time, we were able to throw -- we were able to throw
batteries, we were able to throw lead paint and all of
these things had gone in without any kind of control.
And with any upward buildup, it generates a
terrific amount of pressure. This could cause leakage.
And what concerns me most is you have -- you have
monitoring of the water systems throughout the county,
but if you do find a leak and find that the water is
contaminated, I don't think that we have something in the
system that is a fixed, a -- that would be immediate.
I think it would be a catastrophic problem, and I
don't even know how we could handle anything like this if
it were to become contaminated.
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I think 21 years is an awful long time, or 23
years, to get into a contract , and especially when I've
heard things such as, almost always, very little odors.
And I don't know exactly what that means, contractual --
in contract.
But I think that privatization is good in this
respect. It's an equalizer. The county and private
sector, there seems -- you seem to get twice as much for
half the price. And I don't know the quality of this,
but it should put the county on notice that they should
do some streamlining in some of their departments that
could bring the costs on a competitive basis.
And I don't see any reason that it can't be done.
It's just that up to now, heretofore, we've had unlimited
resources any time we need it. All we had to do was pass
a levy and we've got it.
And I think that the time has come where we have to
pick ourself up at the bootstraps and get in line with
the private sector, and I don't see any reason why we
can't compete with the private sector or even get
somewhere close to it.
And I do wish that the County Commissioners and
County Manager, Mr. Dorrill, would consider to limited --
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limiting this area for the seven-year period, just as
required by law, because there has been -- I don't -- I
can't seem to get it through my mind that the Waste
Management did not know that there has been quite an
explosion up in the New York area a few years back by
accumulation of methane gas. And this could happen here,
but it's in an urban area now.
Another thing that bothers me very much is that at
one of their sites, that they are building condominiums
within feet of the waste site. And that may be true, but
it sure doesn't seem likes it's a very, very good idea.
Thanks very much, Commissioners, and thanks for
giving us the opportunity to express our views.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Stuart, then Mr. Henning.
MR. STUART: For the record, I'm Jim Stuart,
speaking on behalf of the Golden Gate area Chamber of
Commerce. It is the Chamber's position that this
landfill location is not now an appropriate location for
a landfill, and it is becoming increasingly
inappropriate.
This area is the gateway into Collier County, and a
continuation of the landfill at this location will
diminish the economic development, not only of the Goldeli
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Gate community, but of Collier County as a whole.
A year ago, the Board of County Commissioners told
us that it was your intention to cap off the landfill and
move it on. I have a couple of questions.
First of all, what efforts have been made by the
county since that time to locate an alternate site for
the landfill? I don't necessarily expect a response, but
I don't think that a lot of effort has been made to
locate an alternate site.
The folks from Waste Management were very -- said
something very interesting, I thought. They said that
they could put in place an effective gas management
program within six months of taking over the landfill.
A year ago, the Board of County Commissioners told
us they thought it was very important we put in a gas
management program; that's twice as much. We're happy to
hear that the Board has included the effective, hopefully
effective, gas management program in next year's budget,
but we'd like to see that moving along.
It seems appropriate for the Chamber that the
existing landfill be moved, rather than continuing to
stuff more stuff in it. We're being -- we're doing our
part to help out the Board, help out the county, by being
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patient, by patiently waiting for the permits and
everything to occur so that we can have this landfill
moved. But we ask that you do your part by getting the
ball rolling and getting us moved in the right direction.
Thank you.
MR. DORRILL:
MR. HENNING:
positive direction.
Mr. Henning, then Mr. Cornell.
Golden Gate has and is going in a
We have a Golden Gate Information
Center welcoming people from 1-75 into Collier County,
directing them into the right areas where they want to
go.
The Golden Gate Contractor's Association is
building a model home in Golden Gate Estates to showcase
Golden Gate. A residence citizens' group has bonded with
the Golden Gate Civic Association to deal with code
compliance in our area.
We feel that it's -- we are having a positive
growth in Golden Gate. My feeling is, I would like to
see the Board -- and Commissioner Constantine, I
appreciate your comments on, yes, we have $7 million and
we should move forward to relocate the landfill.
Also in that, I would -- maybe we could find a
site, if it's big enough, to locate the East Naples sewer
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system in that same site and get rid of two problems at
once.
Commissioners, I just want to thank you. Manager
Dorrill, I want to thank you for coming out to Golden
Gate, and I'm sorry that Betty Matthews had to leave
early.
Thank you.
MR. DORRILL: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Cornell is your
final speaker. Mr. Cornell.
MR. CORNELL: My name is Bradley Cornell. I do
thank you for this opportunity to speak. I'm a resident
of Naples Park, but I think my garbage comes out to
Golden Gate like everybody else's, so I feel kind of
obligated to show up and have my two cents put into this
discussion.
In consideration of privatizing the county's Solid
Waste Department, I think that we all need to acknowledge
that managing solid waste and recycling is one of the
primary responsibilities of any local government in
attending to the health, safety and welfare of it's
citizenry.
In light of that, I'd like to offer five brief
points for consideration. The first is that the citizens
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Of Collier County must be given every opportunity for
input into the solid waste and recycling operation. Loss
of this input is one of the biggest risks in privatizing
so fundamental a service.
Number two, no matter who actually runs the
landfill, everyone's first priority in solid waste
management must be waste reduction, both individually and
institutionally. Coupled with an even more aggressive
recycling program that we currently have, including
collecting mixed paper, cardboard and composting the
entire organic fraction of the waste stream, plus a
commercial program, many landfill problems can be
effectively mitigated.
Number three, I support the maximum optimization of
the current site, but as I have just said, that
optimization includes aggressive waste reduction,
recycling and composting programs up front.
Number four, I'd like to concur with Mr. Krasowski
and Mr. Keller, and maybe go one step further and say, if
in the county does go forward with privatization, which I
recommend that you do not, I believe it would be very
wise to consider appointing citizens to a solid waste and
recycling advisory board. This has been a suggestion in
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the past, and I think it is still a good idea. This, in
my opinion, would be a necessity in assuring the proper
oversight and involvement of we, who are most effected by
these decisions.
And finally, I hope that you will delay any
privatization decision until after all the.alternative
technology proposals are received. These technologies
should not be an afterthought in the county's long range
solid waste management plan.
Thank you very much.
MR. CONSTANTINE: Well, I want to thank everyone
for coming tonight. Much like last year, it is very
helpful for us to have the public input. And hopefully,
I know from time to time it's easy to get cynical about
government, but, hopefully, the exercises we've gone
through in the last 12 months helps renew a little bit of
faith that everybody is part of trying to solve the
I think together we'll end up at the right
problem.
place.
This is not scheduled to be on next Tuesday's
agenda. I don't think that we have it scheduled for a
particular Tuesday now when we'll bring it back. I would
urge you, certainly, to keep your eyes on the newspaper.
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If you have the opportunity -- I know many of you are
working during the day, but if you have an opportunity to
be with us, whether it's two weeks or three weeks, or
whenever we next discuss this, by all means, please come.
If you can't, feel free to call any of the members
of the Commission and share your thoughts ahead of time
if you didn't have an opportunity to tonight or if you
have anything to add to that.
Again, thanks for coming this evening, and if
there's nothing else, we will stand adjourned.
MR. PERKINS: One question.
MR. CONSTANTINE: A1.
MR. PERKINS: Are any of the employees out there in
any danger?
MR. CONSTANTINE: I don't believe so. Mr. Lorenz
can probably answer that. That's a good question.
MR. LORENZ: Yes. The question, is anybody in
danger? We do daily monitoring at around a dozen
locations on the surface of the site where our personnel
are working and where the public is likely to be. And
all those numbers for the readings of methane and the
hydrogen sulfide go way below any type of safety
threshold, one part per million in terms of hydrogen
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sulfide.
MR. SAUNDERS: Mr. Lorenz, while you're there.
Mr. Zak mentioned the number of 13,000 parts her million
hydrogen sulfide gas and the fact that that was a serious
health hazard. There wasn't much of a reaction from the
County Commission, I think, primarily because we
understand that we are monitoring out there and that we
are in compliance with DEP standards, which are far, far,
far, less than 13,000 parts her million.
But I think you need to clarify for the Commission
and for the audience, is there a situation where
residents are in danger, because that's -- that has been
said, and we really haven't answered that accusation.
MR. LORENZ: No. There is no situation where the
residents are in danger. There are high concentrations
of gas within the landfill itself, within the cells. And
indeed, that's what a landfill does, it produces gas,
that's why you can take advantage of the gas utilization.
If the question is: Is it coming out of the site at very
high concentrations? And it is not, that's why the
residents are not in danger.
MR. SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. CONSTANTINE: And with that, thanks again.
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Good night.
(Meeting adjourned at 10:02 p.m.)
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STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF COLLIER )
I, Terri L. Schultz, Deputy Official Court
Reporter, do hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings
were taken before me at the date and place as stated in the
caption hereto on Page 1 hereof; that the foregoing
computer-assisted transcription, consisting of pages numbered
2 through 124, inclusive, is a true record of my Stenograph
notes taken at said proceedings.
Dated this 31st day of October, 1994.
Terri L. Schultz
Deputy Official Court Reporter
20th Judicial Circuit
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STATE OF FLORIDA
COUNTY OF COLLIER
The foregoing certificate was acknowledged before me this
31st day of October, 1994, by Terri L. Schultz, who is
personally known to me.
State of Florida at Large
OFFICIAL NOTARY SEAL
JUDTTI! E BICE
COMMISSICH N~MBER
348394
COMM;SSION EXP
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962