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PVAC Minutes 04/04/2000 RApril 4, 2000 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE PUBLIC VEHICLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE April 4, 2000 Met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building F of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRPERSON: Acting Member: Pat Baisley William J. Csogi Clifford W. Flegal, Jr. Bryan L.S. Pease NOT PRESENT: Thomas W. Lugrin ALSO PRESENT: Maria Cruz, Code Enforcement Specialist Tom Palmer, Assistant County Attorney Bill Bolgar, Code Enforcement Supervisor Page 1 03/27/00 17:31 FAX 941 403 2345 COMMUNITy DEVFLOPMENT * CLERK OF BRD ~001/001 ~GEND~ COLLIER COUNTY pUBLIC VEHICLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE April 4, 2000 9:00 AM gOLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTER 3301 E. TAMIAMI TR. ADMINISTRATIVE ~UILDING, THIRD FLOOR ANY PERSON W~O DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF T~E PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, ~D THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE T~AT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS M3~DE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES T~AT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICM THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. III. IV- VI. VII. vIII- ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS: APPROVAL OF AeENDAr APPROVAL OF MINUTES: February 9,. 2000 NEW BUSINESS: Melvin Johnson d/b/a Sunset Transportation ReqUest for waiver of re-applicatiOn RObert L. Scallan d/b/a Hummeride, Inc. - Tabled from 2/9/00 meeting Request for approval to operate a Charter Service Margaret T. Pintado d/b/a All Aboard Transportation Request for approval to operate a Charter Service Lisa DiMarco d/b/a Ambassador Limousine Services, Inc. Request for approval t~ operate a Charter Service OLD BUSINESS: REPORTS: DISCUSSION: NEXT .MEETING DATE: July 50 2000 April 4, 2000 CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: I'll call the Public Vehicle Advisory Committee meeting to order, April 4th, the year 2000. We have four board members present. We do have a quorum. Do we have any additions or deletions to our agenda for today? MS. CRUZ: Yes, ma'am. Good morning. For the record, Maria Cruz, Code Enforcement Investigator. We also have Mr. Bill Bolgar present on behalf of the Director of Code Enforcement, Michelle Arnold. The only change that I have -- addition that I have on the agenda, I'd like to add The Registry Resort, request for approval to operate a charter service. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Okay. Any other additions or deletions? None? We have an approval of our agenda for today's meeting? MR. FLEGAL: I make a motion we approve the agenda as changed. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Do I have a second? MR. CSOGI: I'll second it. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: All in favor, say aye. (Unanimous vote of ayes.) CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: We need approval of our minutes from our February 9th, 2000 meeting. Has everybody had a chance to look those over?. MR. FLEGAL: I'll make a motion we accept the minutes as submitted. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Do I have a second? MR. PEASE: Second. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: All in favor, say aye. (Unanimous vote of ayes.) CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Okay, we move on to new business. Our first item of business is Melvin Johnson, doing business as Sunset Transportation, request for a waiver of reapplication. Is Mr. Johnson present? Could you come up to the podium, please, so you could be sworn in? (Speaker was duly sworn.) Page 2 April 4, 2000 CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Mr. Johnson, I understand that you did not renew your '- MR. JOHNSON: Right. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: -- application with the county? Is there a particular reason why you did not renew it? MR. JOHNSON: Well, I was late. So -- but I didn't realize '- you know, on the board. So I was two days late of the grace period, so I came in. She said I had to go to the board. So that's mainly the reason. MR. FLEGAL: Maria, has it been -- it expired in the end of January, correct? MS. CRUZ: Right, correct. Certificates expire January 31st. The ordinance gives him a grace period up to the last day of February. MR. FLEGAL: Correct. MS. CRUZ: And then becomes March 1st, the license becomes expired, null and void. And they were -- also, the ordinance states that they have to reapply. MR. FLEGAL: Correct. MR. CSOGI: With the penalty, right, of $8.00 a day after February 1st? MS. CRUZ: Right. MR. FLEGAL: And it was not renewed by March 31st -- or March 1st? MS. CRUZ: No, sir. MR. FLEGAL: Okay. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: I understand there were several other companies who also did not renew their certificates by the deadline date, Maria; is that correct? MS. CRUZ: That's correct. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Some of those people are reapplying today? Or one of them is? MS. CRUZ: Exactly. MR. FLEGAL: I guess I have a question for Mr. Palmer. Under the ordinance, if you don't apply by the March I st deadline, it automatically expires? MR. PALMER: Yes. Page 3 April 4, 2000 MR. FLEGAL: As I read the ordinance, so you can correct me, I don't believe this board has the power to waive that. MR. PALMER: That's correct. MR. FLEGAL: If it expires, it expires. MR. PALMER: We grant an extension period time to give more latitude to reapply and have a window of opportunity. Once that window closes, the board does not reserve power to waive a violation of meeting that time standard. MR. FLEGAL: Okay. So we can't help him. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: No, I don't think so. Mr. Johnson, you did not submit a new application to Maria? MR. JOHNSON: No, I didn't. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Just this letter. MR. JOHNSON: Right. MS. CRUZ: And the option was also given to Mr. Johnson to provide a new application. MR. FLEGAL: Right. But he had to do that before March 1st. MS. CRUZ: Well, the option, when he claimed -- when he requested to come before the board for a waiver of the reapplication, we also gave him the option to submit an application at this time. MR. FLEGAL: Okay. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: And he chose to just give you this letter and -- MS. CRUZ: Exactly. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: -- not the application. I think he needs to submit the new application. I don't think that we can do anything else but that. MR. PEASE: We don't have any choice. MR. CSOGI: How does the fine fall in for $8.00 a day after February t st? Is that part of the new application? CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: That only applies to the grace period till the end of February, doesn't it? MR. PALMER: That's correct. MR. CSOGI: That's it. MR. PALMER: If he reapplies, that penalty will not apply. This is if he applied in October of this year. Page 4 April 4, 2000 CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: He would just '- MR. PALMER: It doesn't toll until such time as he reapplies. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: He would just start all over like a new applicant. MR. PALMER: That's correct. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: If everybody's in agreement on that, we need some kind of a motion. MR. FLEGAL: I make a motion we deny the request to restate, and that Sunset be required, if they desire a license, to reapply. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Do I have a second on that motion? MR. CSOGI: I'll make a second to that motion. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: All in favor, say aye. (Unanimous vote of ayes.) CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Do you understand what you need to do, Mr. Johnson? MR. JOHNSON: I do. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Our next item of new business is Robert L. Scallan, doing business as Hummeride, Incorporated. This item was tabled from our 2-9 meeting. A request for approval to operate a charter service. Mr. Scallan, could you be sworn in, please? (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. PEASE: What were the items that were tabled from the last meeting? MR. FLEGAL: Let's see if I can remember them all. MS. CRUZ: I have the list here. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: There was quite a few, weren't there? MR. FLEGAL: He didn't have a driver's license -- MS. CRUZ: I have the list. It says the corporate name; criminal background check, which we have not received yet; the credit history on the existing corporation, if that's what the title of the vehicle's going to be; if he was changing names from the existing corporation to the new corporation, then the existing corporation should have some kind of a credit history; and Class Page 5 April 4, 2000 9 on the registration; and proof of insurance; and the proper driver's license. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: When I went through here, I still didn't find the credit report on Med Clep. I'm missing something. MR. FLEGAL: Well, I'm guessing since we have a letter from -- I assume this is your accountant? MR. SCALLAN: That's correct. MR. FLEGAL: That the other -- the Med Clep never really did anything, so it really never had any credit. You set up a corporation, but never used it. It just kind of sat in a drawer. MR. SCALLAN: That's right. As I recall, at our last meeting they used the terminology of financial history, not a credit report, which is what that letter is explaining, that there really is no financial history to that business. MR. FLEGAL: Right. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: The criminal background check we're still lacking, too? Is that one of the items you mentioned? MR. FLEGAL: Yes. MS. CRUZ: That's correct. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Is there a particular reason why that one's taking so much longer than other individuals? MS. CRUZ: No, ma'am, that's beyond our control. MR. SCALLAN: If it's of any value, I'm an assistant principal in a school district, if that has any merit to it. MR. PEASE: Maria, where is the section on credit history? MR. CSOGI: 22. MR. PEASE: Page 22? MR. CSOGI: On the bottom. I was just reading that. It says the applicant should at least have a letter of credit for one year. MS. CRUZ: Page 22. MR. PEASE: It does state credit report, not financial history. And if you recall, the last time you were here, I think I suggested you read the ordinance thoroughly so that you knew what the rules of the game were. MR. SCALLAN: But how would I obtain a credit report on something -- the business never -- I never applied for any credit. There's nothing there. Which I did contact -- I attempted to Page 6 April 4, 2000 contact the major credit bureaus. There's just nothing there on that business name. I certainly have provided my own personal, but they cannot generate a document that has nothing to record. MR. CSOGI: Doesn't that state under applicant's name and business name they need a credit report both ways? So the applicant needs to provide one, if I'm reading it correctly. MR. PEASE: Is there one here? MR. SCALLAN: You have your own personal. MR. FLEGAL: Give us a little direction, please? MR. PALMER: Anybody that's ever purchased a home or taken out a mortgage or borrowed money to buy a car, they've got a credit report, these national credit agencies. MR. FLEGAL: Well, I mean, we've got his personal, but there's nothing on the company. MR. PALMER: Oh, that's right. If he's not -- has not operated a business, then he would have no history of operating a business '- MR. FLEGAL: Okay. MR. PALMER: -- and, therefore, that would be a moot point. MR. FLEGAL: Okay. I thought that's basically what his accountant's letter said, but I wanted you to tell us that. MR. PALMER: The accountant is referring to a specific entity. MR. FLEGAL: Yeah. MR. PALMER: If that's the only entity you've ever even started or thought of starting, and that entity has done no business, then obviously it would have no history. MR. PEASE: But he's putting it in the Med Clep Corporation? MR. FLEGAL: Right. But they have no history, so all we can rely on is his personal history. MR. PALMER: That's correct. MR. FLEGAL: Okay. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: But even if you asked a credit agency to obtain a report on a company that had no history, won't it say this company has no history? MR. PALMER: If it has picked up any sort of a transaction. I don't know that they would have anything until there has been Page 7 April 4, 2000 something on which they would trigger information to put it in their data base. MR. FLEGAL: He would have to have bought something under that name at one time. MR. PALMER: Yeah. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: What were the other items that we were lacking? MS. CRUZ: He referred to minutes, dated February 29th, Page 14. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: 147 MS. CRUZ: Um-hum. They're listed there. MR. FLEGAL: How are we doing on a vehicle? You still don't have a vehicle, right? MR. SCALLAN: No. I have -- financing is in place. I'm just waiting for approval of my license. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Last time you were here we had the discussion about the advertising you wished to place on the outside of the vehicle. Do you understand now that you can't do that? MR. SCALLAN: Right. That is clear. MR. CSOGI: This driver's license that we have a copy of, is this a commercial? CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Yes, Class D. Do we have any other discussion on this application? No? Do I have a motion on this application? MR. FLEGAL: I'd be willing to make a motion that we approve the applicant, pending receipt of the criminal background check and the registration of the vehicle. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Do I have a second on that motion? MR. PEASE: I'll second that. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: All in favor, say aye. (Unanimous vote of ayes.) CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: You're approved. Good luck. MR. SCALLAN: So as soon as I receive that registration, submit it to Ms. Cruz '- MR. FLEGAL: And she gets the criminal background check Page 8 April 4, 2000 and there's not a problem, you're approved. MR. SCALLAN: Thanks very much. MR. PEASE: Good luck. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Our next item of new business is Margaret T. Pintado, doing business as All Aboard Transportation. Request for approval to operate a charter service. Is Ms. Pintado present? Would you swear her in, please. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: I believe that this applicant was one of ones who did not renew her permit '- MS. CRUZ: That's correct. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: -- in the time period? MS. CRUZ: Uh-hum. MS. PINTADO: When Maria called me to advise us that we had a grace period, I said I wouldn't be able to get in for another week. And her answer to me was that's okay, it's $8.00 a day till -- nothing was mentioned till the end of-- I only had till the end of February. I do realize it is in the ordinance book. I'm aware of that now. But for me to sit down and read the ordinance book -- so when I did go in to pay it, I -- they wouldn't allow me to pay it. That's why I'm reapplying. The only difference on the app. is I have tried with this dealership to finally get the registration. Finally got it this morning. MR. CSOGI: The registration to the same vehicle, except it's commercial? MS. PINTADO: Yes. MR. CSOGI: Is that the private '- MS. PINTADO: Yes. MR. CSOGI: And does it list your name or All Aboard? MS. PINTADO: Well, it lists my name. And when I was standing there paying the cashier, the girl that took care of me came because she was sick yesterday and come over and said, "Oh, I got the title." And we were, like -- so she said we went on Page 9 April 4, 2000 and changed it to the nine. As soon as you get done with your meeting, come back down, we'll change it into All Aboard. So it's been an ongoing thing for quite some time now. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: This is the same particular vehicle that you were using when you were licensed prior to this? MS. PINTADO: Yes. Yes. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: How did we license that vehicle, if it was titled improperly, is my question. MR. PEASE: I don't know. Was it added on after the initial '- MS. PINTADO: You approved me and then you said I could get it done or just switch it over. So I went down and we sent Maria a copy of the -- faxed it to her what we sent the dealership, that we were requesting it to be changed. And I guess we caught it when I was going to reapply, so '- CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: When was your original application granted? Permit grant. MS. PINTADO: Last year. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: June. From June until just recently, you've been operating that vehicle with the wrong classification. MR. PEASE: Maria, when did the vehicle that has the improper registration, when was that put on? MS. CRUZ: February, '99. MR. PEASE: Was that at the same time the applicant put the permit on, or was that after? In other words, is this an add-on vehicle, or was that part of the original '- MS. CRUZ: No, that was the original; the only vehicle that operated under the All Aboard transportation for the year 1999. MR. PEASE: We just didn't catch the registration. MS. PINTADO: In fact, I meant to bring in the copies. We have sent them, I think there's five or six that downstairs have sent them, and they just never faxed it back or sent it. And then she -- the director called, or the supervisor finally called this week and said, you know, we've got to get this done, this is ridiculous. He said he sent it out certified mail. So '- MR. FLEGAL: Are you operating as a charter service taxicab What -- tell me what you do. Page 10 April 4, 2000 MS. PINTADO: I'm just airport shuttle. MR. FLEGAL: Okay. The reason I ask the question is I look at your application, I look at your various certificates, Page 8, Page 10 -- or Page 8, Page 12 and Page t3, everything says taxi. So I'm just trying to understand what we're doing. MS. PINTADO: Basically I just took my old application, filled it out the same way, took the old one and the new one and filled it out basically the same way. She said I had to fill a complete one out; I couldn't use the old one. MR. PEASE: Do you use a flat rate or do you use a meter, a top light? MS. PINTADO: Flat rate. MR. PEASE: Is she requesting charter? CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Yes. MS. PINTADO: I do have a question, though. If I want to put a taxicab on in town, do I have to come back through and get approved for this? CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Yes. MR. FLEGAL: Yes. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Because of your color scheme. Your color scheme cannot be the same as any other operating taxicab company. That's why you need to come back to the board, so we can approve your color scheme. MS. PINTADO: Okay. MR. CSOGI: Are you operating as a corporation or sole proprietorship? MS. PINTADO: Sole proprietor. MR. CSOGI: You are. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: From the end of February to present day, have you operated this vehicle? MS. PINTADO: I have given all my runs to Lou's Taxi, out of Fort Myers, which is quite a substantial amount, knowing we're in season. There have been two other companies I've given in town business to. Do you need to see this, or just give her a copy of it? MR. PEASE: No, Maria. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Do we have any other discussion Page 11 April 4, 2000 on this? MR. CSOGI: I notice the phone number on the application for your home and for your business is the same, but you have two different addresses. MS. PINTADO: Well, this is -- when my license expired, I had prior gotten an office space, and I had to have it go through the fire code and everything and get approved. Well, in the meantime that it got approved, they expired my license. So I'm sitting here now with a commercial -- small commercial office, hoping that my license is going to get approved, because all this happened at the same -- so then they canceled my occupational license with the new address on it at that point. Am I making sense? MR. CSOGI: How about a commercial driver's license, is that in here? MS. PINTADO: Yeah, I have a '- MR. CSOGI: I don't see it. Am I missing it? MR. PEASE: Are you the driver of the vehicle? MS. PINTADO: Yes. MR. FLEGAL: Do you have a Class D license? MS. PINTADO: Yes, I do. MS. CRUZ: I do not possess a copy of the driver's license. MR. CSOGI: I didn't think it was in here. MS. CRUZ: No. And if I may add, we're still waiting on the criminal background check. MS. PINTADO: That's not this, Maria? MS. CRUZ: That's the request. MR. FLEGAL: We have one from last time, right? MS. CRUZ: Yes, sir. MR. CSOGI: On your credit report, were any of these charge-offs related to taxicab business? MS. PINTADO: None. MR. CSOGI: None. There's also a separate for the business. Did you see that one? MS. PINTADO: Right, yeah. Page 12 April 4, 2000 CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Any other discussion on this? Do I have a motion on this application? MR. FLEGAL: Your turn. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Your turn. MR. CSOGI: I'll be nice. I think we're waiting on a couple things: A commercial driver's license; a copy of her new registration, which she says she has, both of those items. What else are we missing? MR. PEASE: Criminal background. MR. CSOGI: The criminal background, which we've got one from last year. You've been good all year?. MS. PINTADO: Yes. MR. CSOGI: I think based on those three items, does anybody have any problems with anything else? CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: I don't. MR. CSOGI: I say as long as she gets those in, motion to approve. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Do I have a second on that motion? MR. FLEGAL: Second. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: All in favor, say aye. (Unanimous vote of ayes.) CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Good luck. Our next item of new business is Lisa DiMarco, doing business as Ambassador Limousine Service, Incorporated. Request for approval to operate a charter service. Is Ms. DiMarco present? Would you come up to be sworn in to the podium, please? MR. YOVANOVICH: Do I have to be sworn in as his representative? CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: I think so. (Speakers were duly sworn.) MS. CRUZ: Excuse me, if I may, I have additional copies that I need to provide to the board. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Okay. MR. PEASE: Is this replacing the credit report that was Page 13 April 4, 2000 provided? MR. YOVANOVICH: It's in addition. MR. PEASE: Okay, now I see what's going on. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: I notice the one vehicle you have on your schedule is a 24-passenger VanMbol Bus. MR. YOVANOVICH: And we're -- obviously we know we don't have to license that. We have not yet taken title to the two vehicles. Obviously we're waiting to make sure we have approval. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Sure. MR. YOVANOVICH: I guess for the record, Rich Yovanovich with Goodlette, Coleman and Johnson, for the court reporter. If I may, just to help you along, give you some brief history as to my client. Steve and Lisa DiMarco are applying for a charter license in the name of Ambassador Limousine Services, Inc. It's a new company. We provided you credit reports for both Steve and Lisa. They're the owners and operators of the company. Steve basically started a company up in Hartford, Connecticut 16 years ago, when he turned 18. You can do the math. He started it with one limousine and grew the company up to 82 limousines. He sold the business, moved here in August of 1999, and as being too young to retire, has decided to get into the business down here. Anticipates starting with six vehicles, and that's our plans for right now. I do want to point out one thing on the credit report that you probably have seen for Steve. During the transition -- well, actually, it was for a telephone bill. Apparently there's a thing called cloning up in New York that I didn't know about, so there was a dispute with the telephone company regarding whether or not those were legitimate charges. That's been settled and taken care of. And that will -- obviously it takes a while to get things off your credit report, so '- MR. CSOGI: It doesn't matter. MR. YOVANOVICH: -- that's the one charge. Yeah, that's the only thing I could think that could at all be an issue. It's a pretty straightforward application. I believe Page 14 April 4, 2000 everything is in that Maria needs. And obviously, we request a quick and speedy approval of our application. MR. CSOGI: I'm familiar with Ambassador. I'm from Connecticut. How about a commercial driver's license? MR. YOVANOVICH: They're not going to be the drivers. And obviously, when we do have drivers, we'll make sure that they meet all the requirements of your ordinance. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Do we have any other questions on this application? MR. FLEGAL: Only thing we need is the background check? CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Uh-huh. If there's no more discussion, do I have a motion on this application? MR. PEASE: I'll make a motion. And before I do, I'd like to say that it's a pleasure to have all the paperwork in order, everything to be done so well, and that the applicants themselves seem to meet all the criteria to succeed in Collier County. So we wish them the best of luck. I'll make a motion that we accept this applicant, provided the background check is just as proper as the rest of the paperwork. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Do I have a second on that motion? MR. FLEGAL: I'll second it. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: All in favor, say aye. Good luck. MR. YOVANOVICH: Thank you. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Our next item of new business is Wayne D. Beazer, request for approval to operate a charter service. Is Mr. Beazer present? Could you come up to the podium, please, to be sworn in? (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. FLEGAL: Mr. Beazer, do you have a Class D license? MR. BEAZER: Yes, sir. MR. CSOGI: This temporary registration, is it going to be permanently registered as a private vehicle? Page 15 April 4, 2000 MR. BEAZER: No, a commercial vehicle. MR. CSOGI: In what name? In your name? MR. BEAZER: My name, Wayne D. Beazer. MR. CSOGI: Doing business as Wayne D. Beazer? MR. BEAZER: Yes, sir. MR. CSOGI: I notice you're going to be running this out of your home? MR. BEAZER: Yes, sir. MR. CSOGI: Okay. So you're going to return and depart each time from your home? MR. BEAZER: Yes, sir. MR. CSOGI: Okay. How many trips a day do you think that's going to be? MR. BEAZER: My guess is two to three. MR. CSOGI: Two to three trips a day? MR. BEAZER: Yeah. And probably something between four and six days a week, three and six days a week, something like that. MR. FLEGAL: River Point Drive. Tell me where that is. I'm lost. MR. BEAZER: Do you know where Kelly's Fish House is, Joe's Crab Shack, the Naples Yacht and Sailing Club? MR. FLEGAL: Yes. MR. BEAZER: That road is River Point Drive that runs down to the Yacht and Sailing Club. MR. CSOGI: The Old Bay Marina used to be down there. MR. BEAZER: Yes, sir. MR. FLEGAL: Okay. This is a condominium then? MR. BEAZER: But it is zoned commercial. It is a condominium, yeah. MR. FLEGAL: And the condominium documents permit you to run a business out of the condominium? MR. BEAZER: Yes, sir. MR. FLEGAL: Okay. MR. BEAZER: It's important to note, though, there will be no customers that are going to be coming to the '- MR. FLEGAL: I understand that. But yeah, I just want to Page 16 April 4, 2000 know what the documents say, because I don't want to approve a license where a document says you can't run a business out of a condominium, which is normally what they say. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: You also understand that if you do add another vehicle in the future, you would have to obtain a different business location '- MR. BEAZER: Yes. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: -- other than your home? MR. BEAZER: Yes. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Anyone else have any questions? MR. CSOGI: There was a section on adding trips into a neighborhood, but I don't know if that applies to his residence, his own commercial. Adding extra trips then would be normally out of a private neighborhood. MR. FLEGAL: Well, you're allowed one vehicle. I don't know that it says the number of trips you make, does it, Tom? MR. PALMER: It says the amount of traffic that the vehicle will generate to and from the residence should not exceed that of normal residential occupancy. MR. CSOGI: Would it apply because his occupancy is zoned commercial? MR. PALMER: Well, no, actually the use trumps the zoning. So if it's -- even though it may be -- let's assume you've got something that's zoned commercial but it's in residential use, the use trumps the zoning. But he said he's not going to have customers there. He's actually going to take this vehicle to and from the place to conduct his business. But you're not going to conduct business out of this residential unit. So it falls within the intent of the problem that's to be avoided and that is actually conducting the business traffic-wise, number of traffics, out of the residential unit. MR. CSOGI: Well, he did say he's going to be returning and departing from his residence, so it's going to add to the traffic. MR. PALMER: Actually, that is -- that would be normal for this kind of business activity. And obviously, a houseful of, say, teenagers would overwhelm that kind of residential traffic. Page 17 April 4, 2000 That's what we're looking at. When it becomes apparent to the neighbors that there's something going on next door other than a residential occupancy is what we're trying to prevent. MR. PEASE: Tom, I have one question. With him listing that he's a part-time employee of Excel Destination Management, and that's my firm, do I need to exclude myself from any '- MR. PALMER: No, that's not even close to a conflict of interest. MR. PEASE: I just wanted to check on that. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Any other discussion? Do I have a motion? I think it's your turn. MR. FLEGAL: I make a motion we approve this, subject to getting a copy of your license to county, changing your registration to commercial, and getting the background check saying that it's all right. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Do I have a second on that motion? MR. CSOGI: I second it. MR. BEAZER: Excuse me, like when we applied for '- through the dealership when I purchased the car, I told them that the registration of the vehicle was to be a commercial registration, and we just haven't gotten the final '- MR. FLEGAL: Okay, but we want to see it. Right now all we have is it's a '- MR. BEAZER: The temporary. MR. FLEGAL: -- private, since it's temporary. So until we see that it's commercial, you need to see that Maria gets that. MR. BEAZER: Yeah. MR. FLEGAL: That's going to be a condition. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Do I have a second? MR. CSOGI: I second it. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: All in favor, say aye. (Unanimous vote of ayes.) CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Good luck. MR. BEAZER: Thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Maria, have you received the Page 18 April 4, 2000 document for The Registry? Maybe you could give us just a few minutes to look this over before we call the representatives to the podium, please. We need to call '- MR. PEASE: We have to swear him in, first. MR. FLEGAL: Well, I have some questions for Tom. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Well, let's get them up here first. Do we have representatives from The Registry Resort present? Could you come up here to be sworn, please? State your name. MR. GEMMA: Damien Gemma, for The Registry Resort. G-E-M-M-A. MR. HYDE: Eric Hyde. H-Y-D-E. (Speakers were duly sworn.) CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Now you can ask your questions. MR. FLEGAL: Tom, we have an application for The Registry, which is owned by Lehill Partners. We have their incorporation. I don't see any fictitious name thing as Lehill doing business as The Registry. MR. PALMER: No, I was -- it struck me, too. MR. FLEGAL: The next thing I see, since it's Lee Hill and/or The Registry, the only credit report I see is something for Indian Hill Partners. I haven't the slightest idea who they are. MR. PALMER: can clear that up. written record. MR. FLEGAL: Right. MR. HYDE: Is that a question? MR. PALMER: I think the question is in fact is The Registry Resort, is that Lehill Partners, limited partnership doing business as The Registry Resort? MR. HYDE: Correct. And Indian Hill, there's been three different turnovers in the last year and a half. And the way that it works is Registry Hotels is owned -- let's go back to the beginning. In the beginning they had -- because it's kind of difficult. In the beginning you had Registry Resorts, which was a Yeah, I've questions about that. I'm sure they But it's not apparent from the record, the Page 19 April 4, 2000 limited condominium complex. They were owned by a unit owner base, which was then purchased by Lehill Partnership. Lehill Partnership is now known as Indian Hills Partnership, or Indian Hill. Anyway, that's who that is. So it's like one changed, they changed, every-- it just kept changing, and all the legal records kept going. MR. FLEGAL: Okay, I guess that -- in that resort -- in that scheme, we have an application for The Registry who says Lehill owns it. But now you're telling me Indian Hills owns it. So, I mean, who -- what are we approving or asked to be approving? Who are we approving here? Is Lehill involved at all, or are they gone? MR. HYDE: They're still involved. But it's -- The Registry Resort is the one who's doing business as under the ownership of Indian -- what's the name of it -- Indian Hill and Lehill Partners, if that makes sense. MR. PALMER: Has there been a merger of two partnerships? MR. HYDE: No, they just changed names after actual quote, unquote, Florida Panthers, which is now Boca Raton Resort Group, took over. They kept doing business as, and then they merged into the other one. MR. PALMER: Is it the same principals? MR. HYDE: All the same. MR. PALMER: All the same principals. MR. HYDE: Yeah. And that actually changed when we purchased the golf course. MR. PALMER: Have you filed a fictitious name registration, this partnership doing business as '- MR. HYDE: I believe so, yes. MR. PALMER: -- Registry Resort? MR. PEASE: Just to add to the confusion just a little bit, we have some affidavits which state Eric Hyde but are signed by James Snyder. MR. HYDE: Jim Snyder is the controller for the company. MR. PEASE: It's listing him as the signator of the applicant, but it's listing you as -- at the top on the same sheet. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: That's on Page 6 he's referring to. Page 2 0 April 4, 2000 MR. PEASE: I'm just trying to figure out who the applicant is. Who's representing the applicant? MR. HYDE: Well, Jim Snyder is the actual controller, and he's the one that financially is capable for signing for the ownership. I'm representing the hotel in regards to the occupational license, Bryan. Is that what you're asking? MR. PEASE: Well, I'm actually just asking who's -- the affidavit states that Eric Hyde swears that blah, blah, blah, but then it's signed not by Eric Hyde, it's signed by a James Snyder, who says he's the signator of the applicant. And then down below that, it says Jim Snyder and Eric Hyde. I'm just trying to figure out '- MR. HYDE: Jim is the actual -- is the individual who's the financial controller for the company, or for The Registry Resort. He's signing specifically -- or signed for the business occupational license, and is capable of doing that. MR. CSOGI: This form is for safety standards, so somebody has to be held accountable. Whoever's listed at the top '- MR. HYDE: Correct, and that '- THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, I can only get one at a time. MR. CSOGI: This is a safety standards affidavit, and the two names are not matching up. The person that's going to be responsible for it '- MR. HYDE: Right, would be me, and it should have been signed by me. MR. PEASE: Then we have a Nations Bank letter that states FHP Management was one of the principals, but it says it's an agent for the Association of United Owners of the Registry Resort of Pelican Bay, Incorporated, which is a different entity. MR. HYDE: Which is the original entity before that purchase got taken over by Lehill Partners, which ended up being Indian Hill Partners, which is doing business as The Registry Resort. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: That's a mouthful. MR. HYDE: Trust me, you should try and keep up with it at times. MR. PEASE: Reminds me of one of those children's rhymes, Page 21 April 4, 2000 it keeps going on and on and on. MR. HYDE: That's why I didn't even put the Edgewater into it or the golf course into it, because I lost it somehow. MR. PEASE: And we thank you. MR. CSOGI: So at this point you have no vehicles yet? MR. HYDE: No, we haven't hired any drivers, per say. We haven't purchased any vehicles. One of our owners is -- happens to own quite several amounts of dealerships, vehicles in the dealership. MR. CSOGI: So neither of you would be driving them, right? MR. HYDE: No. MR. PEASE: Okay, then we have credit apps on individuals farther -- I haven't gotten this far. Farther down is there one for the corporations that we're talking about? MR. FLEGAL: For a corporation, it's not listed. That's my question. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Indian Hill Partners. MR. PEASE: There is? Okay. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: This -- Maria brought this to my attention before this board meeting, asking me what the requirement was as to the credit report. And I asked her to go back and look at the Ritz Carlton's application, because I had represented that when the Ritz applied, we asked for managers, one particular individual, because there's a whole bunch of people there. You couldn't request credit information and criminal background checks on every single person. That would be ridiculous. So I think that's why these '- MR. HYDE: Right. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: -- two individuals '- MR. HYDE: And the individuals that were responsible was Joe Franey (phonetic) at the time. Basically the -- since we are in an absence of a general manager position currently, Ron Albeit, who is the resort manager, as well as myself, provided that information to you. MR. PEASE: Okay, now, is Jim Snyder one of the people we got a criminal background check on? Or is he not an app -- I mean, I heard that he was an applicant, but we don't have an Page 22 April 4, 2000 individual on him. Did we request one? MR. HYDE: He wasn't the individual that has -- the applicant was actually done through myself and through Ron Albeit, which are the two that had the actual -- and Jim gave and provided the financial information for the operation. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: On this particular sheet, they're listing their manager information as the two of them. MR. PEASE: Okay. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: I think what Bryan is trying to get at is we want to know who is going to be actually responsible for the provisions of this ordinance from the organization. MR. HYDE: Me. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: You are. MR. PEASE: Who is ResortHill, Incorporated? MR. HYDE: Where's that? MR. PEASE: That's on the Certificate of Limited Partnership. I don't know, no page number. It lists Pelican Hill Associates, and then the partners are ResortHill, Incorporated, Pelican Hill Associates. MR. HYDE: I'm sorry, I can't find it. MR. PEASE: Let's see if I can show -- Maria, do you see it? MS. CRUZ: Yes, sir. It's right here. MR. HYDE: Okay. Pelican Hill Associates was the original unit owners' group, which was represented then by Lehill Partnership. That's the original one. MR. PEASE: And then ResortHill, Incorporated? MR. HYDE: Same thing. MR. PEASE: Same thing? MR. HYDE: Right. ResortHill is the actual Illinois corporation, which is Pelican Hill Associates. Those are the two names that are operated. One is operated in Delaware, the other one is operated in Illinois. And then Lehill Partnership, which is the parent one, is the one that we're doing business with here. I'm giving you three states. Gary Chensoff is the one that's responsible for all of those. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Does this all make sense to you? MR. PALMER: I would recommend that they just give Maria Page 23 April 4, 2000 a one-page letter explaining who's who here. MR. HYDE: That's fine. MR. PALMER: Just to clarify here, because it's very confusing with the documentation. MR. HYDE: Not a problem. MR. FLEGAL: And what we're looking for is if we have a problem '- MR. HYDE: Who do you go to. MR. FLEGAL: -- the attorneys need to find somebody. And I don't want to end up saying -- you know, coming to you folks and you say well, but it's not us, it's somebody else, and you go to them, well, it's not us. And the next thing, Collier County's gone through 47 corporations and nobody wants to own up that they're the ones. That's why we like to know who's who. MR. HYDE: Got it. MR. PEASE: The only name that hasn't been mentioned is the Florida Panther Holdings, which I see here. MR. HYDE: Which is really interesting, because it's -- Florida Panthers Holdings is there. It is now Boca Raton Resort Group. It changed about a week and a half ago. And so that's what I'm saying, what it is today. MR. PALMER: That's why Maria needs a letter. MR. HYDE: Got it. MR. PEASE: Well, I think '- MR. FLEGAL: Yeah, I mean, you're asking '- MR. PEASE: -- we also need more than that. We need '- MR. FLEGAL: Well, you're asking for it to be -- the permit to be given to The Registry. So we need to track down -- I mean, The Registry reports '- MR. HYDE: To so and so and so and so. MR. FLEGAL: -- to somebody, who reports to somebody, to somebody. We need to know those steps. And the bottom is '- MR. HYDE: Who's responsible. MR. FLEGAL: -- if it's Gary, fine, he's at the bottom '- MR. HYDE: Right. MR. FLEGAL: --you know, because he has corporate "X". And if it's 47 steps, that's fine. We need to know all that. Page 24 April 4, 2000 MR. HYDE: Got it. MR. FLEGAL: Okay? MR. HYDE: Uh-huh. MR. PEASE: But more than that, the paperwork needs to match up. That's-- MR. FLEGAL: You think if he gives us this list, as Tom said, of the steps -- starting with The Registry and work your way down, this would probably make a whole lot more sense. MR. HYDE: Absolutely. MR. FLEGAL: Because you're -- it's so intertwined. MR. HYDE: And then with the other thing that Bryan mentioned also is that you've got a -- you've got one thing which states that I'm the applicant, and then Jim Snyder signed for it, so that's the other variation. MR. FLEGAL: Yeah. That's an easy change for you to make. MR. PEASE: Well, here's my comment on that, is the vehicles need to be in the same corporation as the insurance, which needs to be in the same -- everything needs to be in one name. MR. FLEGAL: Right. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Well. MR. PEASE: The letter doesn't meet the criteria, because everything has to match up. Or you could have a situation where your insurance is one company and you're operating under another, so you could prevent any liability in that direction. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: But your vehicles could be leased to a corporation. MR. PEASE: True. That's true. They don't have to be in the ownership, it could be a lease, that's true. But it still needs to be everything under the same corporation name, whether that's - CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: I agree. MR. PEASE: - The Registry or it's Indian Hill or it's Limited Partners or it's Florida Panthers, or whatever it is. MR. FLEGAL: Yeah. He's looking for The Registry is what you're looking for. MR. PEASE: I don't think a letter meets it. I think all the paperwork needs to be -- Page 25 April 4, 2000 MR. FLEGAL: The permit's going to be for The Registry. That's what you're asking us to do. MR. HYDE: That is correct. MR. FLEGAL: Okay. MR. HYDE: So then it would be under The Registry Resort is the person -- is the actual company that's doing business as in Collier County. MR. FLEGAL: Right. MR. HYDE: And therefore, it needs to flow through on one statute. MR. FLEGAL: And your insurance is for The Registry Resort, as I see. MR. HYDE: Correct. And then all the vehicles would be registered to The Registry Resort, and all the insurance would match and all the documentation would match. MR. FLEGAL: Right. But what we need to know in addition is who The Registry kind of reports to, and if it's Lehill and they all change, that's what the letter would do. But yeah, all the other paperwork would have to match. And I think you're about halfway there with the insurance and the permit. That would work. And then changing these signatures is something you can work out with Maria. I don't have a problem with that. MR. HYDE: Right. Our agenda basically was to try and get it through, because obviously the next meeting isn't until July. MR. FLEGAL: Right. MR. HYDE: Our issue is several. Obviously we now have the Edgewater Resort, as well as the new golf course. And we have various entities within that. We have some MID's in the -- which is a manager in development -- of which there'll be approximately 30 or 33 that are staying at the St. Croix Apartments. And we're also trying to work out some internal Iogistics of being able to move those individuals as they arrive back and forth to work. So that would be one issue we needed to do. Another one was also to be able to turn around and have an orientation program from the Edgewater to the country club, back to the hotel once a week for four to five individuals, depending on exactly who goes through it. That type of an issue. Page 26 April 4, 2000 Also meeting planners that would be able to be picked up by us so that we wouldn't incur costs on that. Currently everything that we do is on a cost rental basis. We don't actually own or operate any vehicles, or have any drivers on staff whatsoever. And that's kind of where we're headed. And so that's a slow process. If we start the process now, and if I get to it by January, if I get to it by September, by the time I actually get around and get through the corporation issues to be able to get the vehicles -- I mean, it's a phone call, but you've got to go through nine steps of litany in order to start. So I figure if I start today, get everything documented and go through it so I don't waste your time or the board and everything else as we go through it, we should make the process easier. MR. PEASE: The people staying at the St. Croix, are those employees? If they are, you don't have an issue with doing that transportation. You can do that without a blessing from us. MR. HYDE: Okay. But I don't know '- MR. PEASE: I'm going to quit asking questions. MR. HYDE: That confused me, for the simple reason that A, if I operate -- if I'm going to transport somebody, A, I assume it needs to be a licensed vehicle with a driver that -- I mean, a commercial driver's license and commercial registration. We don't -- we have cargo vans. I can't transport them in a cargo van. MR. PEASE: If they're your employees, you can do - you can do that. If you're not charging for that, you can do that without a MR. HYDE: Right. But see, that's the issue, I don't know if '- we didn't get that far yet. We don't know if there's going to be any compensation back for cost recovery, whatever. And I'd rather make sure that we do everything right the first time than take it later. MR. PEASE: Okay. Have we approved applicants in the past at workshops? Made the workshop part of the meeting? Page 27 April 4, 2000 CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: No. MR. PEASE: No. It is the next board meeting. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Not that I remember. MR. PALMER: If you wanted to advertise the first item at a workshop as a special meeting for that specific purpose, you can make a substantive decision there. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: But you can't do it unless it was advertised that way. MR. PALMER: Right. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: It would be a meeting first and '- MR. PALMER: Right, it would be like a little mini meeting and then go into the workshop. But that can be done. It would be a special meeting. MR. FLEGAL: But here, with this application, I mean, when you first glance at it, it does get very confusing. MR. PALMER: It is. MR. FLEGAL: But I think since our -- the applicant is The Registry, the insurance is currently The Registry, they don't have any vehicles yet, so that's kind of a non-issue at this point. All we really need to know is who's responsible for The Registry. MR. PALMER: We need to know this '- MR. HYDE: Hierarchy. MR. PALMER: -- TO&E here '- MR. FLEGAL: Right. MR. PALMER: -- to see who's who and so Maria can make sure that the vehicles that will be acquired will be covered by the insurance policy that they're going to get, and that we know who to contact in the event we need to contact somebody about a problem. That's essentially the issue. MR. FLEGAL: Yeah, it's not '- MR. PALMER: And the thing that's a little confusing is that they're talking about this new outfit and this application is dated March 23rd, a couple of weeks ago. Now we're told that it's no longer Lehill Partners LP, but it's some other entity that's just last week changed its name. So this is what's led '- MR. HYDE: Right. MR. PALMER: -- to the confusion. Page 28 April 4, 2000 MR. FLEGAL: One of the other things you have to understand, is when you tell us that if it's not Lehill and it's Indian Hill, that when we grant the permit to The Registry, which is, let's say, owned by Indian hills -- or responsible to Indian hills, for lack of a better way to put it. If Indian hills were to be sold to the Black Hills Corporation, the permit, you know, you have to come back and get our approval, because you're now selling. The company's being sold to somebody different. MR. HYDE: Right. MR. FLEGAL: Okay, you understand that, that you just '- MR. HYDE: That's in the '- MR. FLEGAL: Changing corporations every week isn't going to work for this permit. MR. HYDE: Right. MR. FLEGAL: You know, you need our approval, so '- CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: We might see you quite often. MR. HYDE: Lately, yes. As Bryan knows, a lot. MR. PALMER: Another thing that could be done, if you were so inclined to do it, would be to have these conditions met and signed off by Maria and the chairman once they're satisfied that they're met. If you wanted to give a list of things that you want done. You don't necessarily have to have that a decision of the board. That's up to your choice. But you could delegate that down the specifics, this has to happen, this has to happen, this has to happen, and approved by Maria and the chairperson, and that would be -- it would be a done deal. You can delegate that authority, if you wanted to. The question about -- we're not issuing a certificate to The Registry Resort, we're issuing a certificate to the entity that is The Registry Resort; and, therefore, we need that clarified '- MR. HYDE: Right. MR. PALMER: -- and these other things. But there's nothing to prohibit that kind of a delegation of specific instructions, if you want to do so. Or, on the other hand, you can have it come back to the board and have the board make the final decision. These are Page 29 April 4, 2000 essentially administerial matters that can be done by staff, if they know what it is that you want them to do precisely. MR. FLEGAL: I'm comfortable with the corporation. I know a little bit about The Registry, so I understand the structure and all the changes being taken place, so I don't have a problem with personally delegating that down. MR. PEASE: The only thing is, is there's nine corporations that are in this application. You know, Naples Grand, Boca Resorts, FHP (sic) Management, Unit Owners of the Reg., Lehill Partners, Registry Resort, Pelican Hill Association, ResortHill, Incorporated, Indian Hill Partnership. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: And you probably missed about three or four. MR. PEASE: I'm sure. MR. HYDE: Yeah, definitely missed a few. MR. PEASE: So that's where my confusion lies. I just want to make sure that everything matches up. MR. FLEGAL: Well, that's why I say, it -- The Registry is '- somebody is responsible for them. And then as they change these names, you're not going to -- that's why the letter, if you list that as an attachment to this where it says "if a partnership," and you can say see attached, and it's this letter with '- MR. HYDE: Who's responsible for the corporation. MR. FLEGAL: -- 50 corporations, who cares. The bottom is it's somebody, which is what we need to know. I don't have a problem, I understand that. That's why we need that list. MR. PALMER: Right, and presumptively '- MR. FLEGAL: Other than that, it's The Registry and the fictitious name is Lehill this, but Indian Hills bought Lehill, and all the corporations changed. And yeah, that happens a lot in business. MR. PALMER: Sure. MR. FLEGAL: I can accept that. MR. PALMER: But a clear letter of explanation in plain English should be able to -- I mean, you can write it in an hour explaining who's who and so forth. It isn't -- there's nothing esoteric about this, it's just a matter of getting a clean picture in Page 30 April 4, 2000 Maria's file as to who it is that's doing business as The Registry Resort. MR. HYDE: And also, just dealing with Maria, I know in the time period that we've put this together, she's dealt with nine different individuals and had so many phone calls because one didn't -- it was difficult. So yeah, I'd be more than happy to get the letter together. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: That's the big problem. She needs one person that she can '- MR. HYDE: Right, and that's why '- CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: -- call and ask questions. MR. HYDE: -- we're going to -- it's going to go through me so that I know and it will make it easier. I think I stopped that last -- the other day. MS. CRUZ: Thank you. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Do I have a motion on this application? MR. FLEGAL: I'd be willing to make a motion that we approve the application, pending receipt of correctly signing the documents '- MR. HYDE: Correct. MR. FLEGAL: -- and providing us with the family tree, so to speak, of The Registry Resort is who, okay? You already understand what we're looking for. MR. HYDE: Yes. MR. FLEGAL: But we need that tree so we can place responsibility. And whatever background check we need to get on whichever individual or individuals. I think that's the three '- and the registration's when you in fact buy vehicles. MR. PEASE: Can I ask for clarification on that motion? MR. FLEGAL: Sure. MR. PEASE: The credit application has to also match, correct? MR. think we MR. MR. FLEGAL: Well, we've got one on Indian Hills, and I don't need a credit application on 47 companies. PALMER: No. PEASE: No, but don't we need -- don't we need the one Page 31 April 4, 2000 that actually is going to have the applicants? In other words, The Registry Resort. MR. FLEGAL: Yeah, I would think it should be on The Registry, and that they probably bought stuff, I'm sure. MR. HYDE: I honestly don't believe there is an actual credit report on The Registry Resort as the Registry Resort as doing business as Lehill Partners, or Indian Hill Partners, currently. MR. PEASE: Then the credit app. needs to be on Lehill partners. MR. PALMER: I would think the credit app. ought to be on the entity that applies for the automobile insurance. MR. HYDE: Right. Which is -- right. MR. PALMER: Whoever those people are '- MR. CSOGI: The Registry Resort. MR. PALMER: -- we ought to have -- apparently that's a partnership that's comprised of a limited partnership and a couple of general partner corporations. MR. HYDE: Correct. MR. PALMER: But somebody is going to go to an insurance company and get an account and pay automobile insurance premiums. MR. HYDE: Right. MR. PALMER: That's the entity that we're interested in as financial background. It's probably the same entity that is doing business as The Registry Resort. MR. HYDE: It is. It just depends on how it lays out in that litany. yes. MR. FLEGAL: Yeah, I don't have a problem with that, Bryan. MR. PEASE: Can you restate that motion so I can second it? CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: I was going to say that myself, MR. PEASE: Maybe shrink it. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Try that again. MR. FLEGAL: I can't remember what I said now. That we approve the application, pending receipt of properly signing the documents, obtaining the family tree, the registration of the vehicles, when they're purchased, and the credit report of Page 32 April 4, 2000 the entity responsible for the insurance application, or the insurance '- MR. PALMER: Which will be the same people obviously that will be operating the vehicles. Not the same drivers, but the same entity. MR. FLEGAL: Which is the same entity we hope that is responsible for The Registry. MR. PEASE: I think I could second that. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: All in favor, say aye. (Unanimous vote of ayes.) CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: You're approved. MR. PEASE: Go in peace. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Go write that long letter. MR. HYDE: If I can figure it out. I'll touch base with you. It's going to take a couple of hours. MS. CRUZ: If I just may add -- remind Mr. Hyde that these must be submitted within 30 days; otherwise, we would have to go through all this again. Olle ask CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Again, yes. MR. HYDE: Well, I was talking about the end of the week. MS. CRUZ: Okay. MR. FLEGAL: That's fine. MR. HYDE: We've got a couple of people that can do that. of nine. Thank you. MR. FLEGAL: You're welcome. MR. PEASE: Thank you. MR. FLEGAL: Old business. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: We're on to old business. MR. CSOGI: I've got one question on new business, if I could it. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Sure. MR. CSOGI: Code enforcement. On Section 142.32, sub-paragraph 15, every certificate holder shall cause every vehicle for hire that it owns, operates, leases or controls to be inspected at least once every six months to ensure that the vehicle for hire complies with minimum vehicle standards for this article, Chapter 316. Page 33 April 4, 2000 Do you guys do that inspection? MR. BOLGAR: What page are you on, sir? MR. CSOGI: That's going to be Page 11, subparagraph 15. My question is, is that inspection done by code enforcement? And if not, how do they prove that that's done every six months? MS. CRUZ: I understand that the certificate holders provide an affidavit -- obtain an affidavit from each driver, ensuring that their -- we're talking -- maybe I'm confused -- that their vehicles meet the safety standards. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: No, the way I understood it is each year when we renew our certificate, one of us from our corporation signs that we meet the safety standards of the ordinance. MS. CRUZ: That's true, too. MR. PEASE: But it's not being done every six months. MR. CSOGI: That's not the way it states here, though. It needs to be done every six months and it needs to be inspected that it meets the requirements. MR. PEASE: He is right. MR. CSOGI: Who would do the inspecting? Would code enforcement do that or would the PVAC talk about that and recommend certified repair shops, or '- MR. PEASE: Currently it's being done once a year when we do the sticker, correct? MS. CRUZ: Yeah, we do very minimal inspection. We're not certified inspectors to -- MR. CSOGI: MS. CRUZ: every year '- MR. CSOGI: MS. CRUZ: MR. CSOGI: MS. CRUZ: MR. CSOGI: MS. CRUZ: MR. CSOGI: So you do do an inspection? When they come in to renew their certificates Right. -- we do minimal inspections '- What do you do? -- to the vehicles. Do you walk around the vehicle '- Exactly. -- look inside it? Page 34 April 4, 2000 MS. CRUZ: Uh-hum. MR. PEASE: See if there's a seat belt. MR. CSOGI: But you don't actually check safety features like brakes, suspension, tires? MS. CRUZ: We're not certified to do that, no. MR. CSOGI: Okay. MR. PALMER: We wouldn't want to do that either. MR. FLEGAL: Right. And I think -- I mean, the way it reads, it just says that the certificate holder shall cause it to be inspected. It doesn't say the county will inspect it. MR. CSOGI: That's why I asked who does that. So -- are they providing a copy of that inspection every six months, the companies that are licensed in this town? CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: No. MS. CRUZ: No, they're not. MR. CSOGI: Okay. I think we should enforce that then. And if not, maybe at a workshop we can come up with a program for that. MR. FLEGAL: If the certificate holders are doing it once a year, I think a letter to them referencing that paragraph saying they need to mail you that certification every six months instead of once a year would be applicable. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: What are we going to say is the certification? MR. CSOGI: Exactly. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: You have to '- MR. CSOGI: You have to set guidelines. MR. PEASE: The guidelines are already set. MR. FLEGAL: The guidelines are there. MR. PEASE: It says the minimum '- MR. CSOGI: Well, it says every certificate holder shall cause -- it has to comply. MR. PEASE: It doesn't say who does the inspection, though. MR. FLEGAL: Right. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: That's what I'm saying. MR. PEASE: It doesn't say this board does, it doesn't say the Page 35 April 4, 2000 MR. FLEGAL: Right. That's what I'm saying. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: If you did your own '- MR. FLEGAL: It says certificate holder. THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, one at a time. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Sorry. If you had your own maintenance facility and you did your own maintenance work, and you had somebody from your organization sign off that that vehicle met the safety standards every six months, is that acceptable or does it have to go to an outside source? MR. FLEGAL: No, it '- MR. PALMER: When I view this article, it's general; therefore, you take it to the widest extreme. It would be anybody that's qualified to make the inspection '- MR. FLEGAL: Correct. MR. PALMER: -- could do it. And these strike me as being rather layman like things, whether or not you've got torn seats and whether or not your tires are bald and these kinds of things. It seems like any competent driver could make an inspection of his own vehicle. MR. CSOGI: And I'm worried about beyond that. I'm worried about brakes, suspension and stuff like that, and exhaust, which is also in here. MR. FLEGAL: Further in the front of the document, as I remember the ordinance, it says what vehicles are supposed to have. Now, this sentence says a certificate holder has to provide the certification. MR. PALMER: Right. MR. FLEGAL: County's out of it. All we need to do is tell the certificate holder send us this certification every six months. How they get it done is immaterial. MR. PALMER: As long as it's done. MR. FLEGAL: It's got to meet the ordinance, period. MR. PALMER: And it assumes that when they submit this thing, it will be in good faith '- MR. FLEGAL: Correct. MR. PALMER: -- and the person that made the inspection Page 3 6 April 4, 2000 was qualified to do it. MR. FLEGAL: Correct. MR. PEASE: What we need is for code enforcement to send out the same form that they send out or require at the beginning when they get their certificate, send it out in the June or July response, which would meet the six-month criteria. MR. CSOGI: I would like to set a criteria for the person doing the inspection. MR. FLEGAL: That would be an ordinance change. MR. PEASE: We use multiple methods in addition. For instance, our company, we have drivers daily inspect the vehicle plus six months -- I'm sorry, six times a year I physically inspect the vehicles. MR. CSOGI: What if he has '- MR. PEASE: I'm not saying every company does that, but is the driver qualified to know if the brakes work or not? CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: I think we've had some discussion about this in the past and we put it on to the operator, if I remember correctly, to certify that his vehicles meet the safety standards. MR. CSOGI: But the operator in no way is competent enough to give a legal opinion on brake pads, exhaust systems, unless he's certified by accreditation. That's what I'm getting at, I would like to set a standard that okay, we'll leave it on the individual companies to provide us with a copy that their vehicles are being inspected, but the inspector for that company should meet some kind of certification in the automotive industry, which is like an AFC certification. MR. FLEGAL: I think '- MR. PEASE: I'm just looking at you. I don't have a comment. MR. FLEGAL: Starting on Page 8 is the minimum vehicle standards '- MR. CSOGI: Right. MR. FLEGAL: -- okay? No where does this ordinance state other than -- let's see, back up to page -- I think it's -- oh, yeah, on Page 11 it just says complies with applicable state, federal laws, rules and regs. regarding motor vehicle safety equipment Page 37 April 4, 2000 devices. MR. CSOGI: Right. MR. FLEGAL: Now, this ordinance doesn't say they have to get it inspected by some fellow with 47 degrees. It says you must meet these requirements and they're certifying they have met them. I don't think we need to start sub-managing and saying '- MR. CSOGI: No, I '- MR. FLEGAL: -- this guy has to have "X" degrees. That's not what we want. MR. PALMER: No, we want whoever does the inspection to be qualified, whatever that takes. And that doesn't mean -- I suppose any competent mechanic could do even the most technical. Most of these are where they've got torn seats or bald tire kind of things. Now, one or two talks about the interplay of the steering and so forth. So like any competent mechanic, in-house or by contract, could make those determinations. MR. FLEGAL: Right. MR. PALMER: Even the most technical aspects of the highest of these standards. MR. FLEGAL: I don't have a problem with that. I just don't -- I don't think the board, without -- as I understand the ordinance, we can recommend changes to the ordinance. MR. PALMER: We can recommend changes. MR. FLEGAL: I don't think we can sit here and say that people that own -- that have permits now must do the following. It's not in this ordinance. We don't have the power to tell them to do something different. MR. PALMER: For example, if a cab company has an in-house mechanic, obviously the in-house mechanic can make these inspections. MR. FLEGAL: Right. And we can't sit here and say that he needs to be certified by General Motors and Ford and all that. MR. PALMER: If you're a one-man operation, you take it to your mechanic '- MR. FLEGAL: Right. MR. PALMER: -- and say give it a once-over, you know, Page 38 April 4, 2000 check it out for safety and so forth. And they'll do it. They'll say you need to fix something, or your car's fine. MR. CSOGI: Okay. But at this point, the way it stands, no, we can't dictate how it's inspected. What I'm saying is I'm recommending that we do that, each inspection for the company if you're (sic) not have credentials. MR. FLEGAL: But that's an ordinance change. MR. CSOGI: I understand that. And we can make a recommendation to the board for that. MR. FLEGAL: I don't think the county wants to '- MR. PALMER: Well, The State of Florida got away from automobile inspections '- MR. FLEGAL: Right. MR. PALMER: -- because automobile inspectors were telling people they needed to get things fixed that didn't need to get fixed to get extra work. So the automobile inspector has a conflict about giving an objective opinion about something. And if in fact we would require some kind of-- and I'm not even sure there are state certified inspectors anymore. I don't know whether they exist anymore. MR. CSOGI: There's certain counties in Florida that still require inspections. MR. PALMER: But that means that they'd have to go to these people, and they'd be at the mercy of the inspector every six months and they'd have to pay a fee to do it. And it's a serious policy issue. MR. FLEGAL: I think probably with our quote, unquote, safety history in Collier County on these types of vehicles, that since we're accepting the certification on a yearly basis, asking for the certification on a -- every six-month basis would not be unreasonable to accept on the same basis as the annual. And based on the safety record of these firms, that we don't need to push them into a corner to get inspections from a, quote, certified type person. MR. PALMER: Right. And then it also may be that at least some of these insurance policies have their own requirements to have a vehicle inspected periodically, which would be in addition Page 39 April 4, 2000 to whatever this ordinance provides. I would think that that would not be an unreasonable assumption that some of these insurance companies require that these vehicles be inspected, just to keep the policy in force. MR. FLEGAL: Yeah, like any insurance company, about the first accident they have, their rates are either going to go sky high or they're going to get cancelled real quick. So I would think the operators, the majority of them, are pretty savvy in trying to keep their vehicles up so they don't get into a problem. If that's your method of bringing in your money, I sure wouldn't want to go out of business because I didn't have my tires changed or my brakes fixed. MR. PALMER: Exactly. MR. PEASE: On the broader side, I would like to see in the next board meeting amended changes actually listed on the itinerary. There -- seems like things go to workshop and they just die, like a bill in Congress that gets sent to committee. You know, it just drops off the face of the earth. I think it would be -- I think we talked about this last time and we were going to do suggestions '- CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: To me. MR. PEASE: -- to you, and I don't think I did that. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: No one did that. MR. PEASE: So I'm just as guilty. But I think if it was on the docket, I would be more diligent. And also, with the season starting to wind down, it gives me the opportunity to do that. Does anybody have any objections to doing that item on the MR. FLEGAL: No. Good item. MR. PALMER: Maria, are you going to talk about the board's mandate to get something moving about the review of the rate, the general taxicab rate schedule? MS. CRUZ: I was going to mention it to them. I was just going to let them know that the board approved the amendment of the ordinance. MR. PALMER: Yeah, there's been a general direction down to staff to come back to the board in six months with an Page 40 April 4, 2000 analytical review of whether or not the now existing taxicab rates are fair and reasonable. Though I think we've got to do whatever we need to do to get in contact, get feedback from the taxicab companies, to make suggestions and analyses, so there's a factual foundation in place to get the ordinance back to the board, if in fact there's going to be a general increase in the rate schedule for taxicab drivers. There have been some assertions made to the county staff, particularly the County Attorney's Office, in review of the emergency rate increase, that they think it's time to give a general analysis of the taxicab rates, and they feel that in all probability that they are outdated and need to be raised to some extent. MR. PEASE: I mentioned this six months ago, but from what I see, the criteria is that they are supposed to come and request that. MR. FLEGAL: Correct. MR. PEASE: And nobody to this date has ever done that. MR. PALMER: Except recently over the telephone, essentially. MR. PEASE: I even talked to C.C. at Graham Transportation. I saw him at the airport, and I said, "You know what, you've got a committee that would like to consider that." However, no one has ever-- MR. PALMER: Taken the issue. MR. PEASE: -- done that. MR. PALMER: That's right. MR. PEASE: They do go right to the County Commissioners for emergency, but -- MR. PALMER: Well, what we really have to do, I guess is -- MR. PEASE: -- they don't come to us for a rate increase. MR. PALMER: -- invite, formally invite input, and tell them about the mandate, that this is the direction from the Board of County Commissioners, we've got to get the ball rolling, and therefore, we must have input from the taxicab companies to have a database on which we can do this analysis. I think if they would get some immediate response within Page 41 April 4, 2000 the next month or so, we can get this and have this well done well in time even prior to the six-month deadline. But it's a matter of doing it, getting on it and doing it. MR. PEASE: Are you suggesting we put that on a workshop agenda and we send out a letter before the next workshop, taxi operators? MR. PALMER: Well, I was even thinking that either the chairman or in conjunction with Maria could draft such a letter, which would probably be a one-page letter explaining that we want to have this review, please submit input in whatever means, written letter, E-mail, so forth, and so we get a database. And then we'll work -- I would suggest we workshop to analyze this material and come up with some sort of recommendations to the Board of County Commissioners as to what would be the appropriate increase, if any. And it's just a matter of doing it, getting it down and getting it analyzed. And it seems like the earlier, the better, so we don't put time pressure on ourselves at the end of the process. MR. FLEGAL: Yeah, Page t 6 tells how we should do this. I was not happy about the emergency rate increase because it seemed to just appear. And nobody could say why we needed it other than gas prices are up. And that's not a good enough reason for me. Sorry. MR. PEASE: I did not -- I did provide a letter for input, but '- MR. FLEGAL: So did I. MR. PEASE: -- we didn't get copies of anybody else's. Could we get that? Did anyone else besides me send a letter? MR. FLEGAL: Yeah, I sent one of about three pages, why is this being done. MS. CRUZ: Those are the '- MR. PEASE: Anybody else? MS. CRUZ: Those are the only two letters that I'm aware of. MR. PEASE: Only two? Okay. Because I am in agreement with him. We met February 9th or something, and it wasn't even on the docket for us in discussion. It wasn't a crisis in any way. And less than 30 days later it is a crisis. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: This discussion was a discussion Page 42 April 4, 2000 that we had with the Board of County Commissioners directly. They felt that it was an emergency situation and that it should come directly to the Board of Commissioners and not go through this board at that time. MR. PALMER: Yeah, that '- MR. PEASE: The point is nobody came February 9th saying that this is a '- MR. PALMER: Apparently a suggestion was made subsequent to that time, and the County Attorney's Office got a directlye to get this ordinance done right now. MR. PEASE: Prior to our last board meeting? MR. PALMER: No, subsequent to the last board meeting. As a matter of fact, the ordinance went to the Board of County Commissioners seems to me within 10 working days after the first directire from the County Attorney's Office to get this ordinance done. MR. PEASE: So I know gas didn't go up that much from February -- when did we meet, February 9th? MS. CRUZ: Yes. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Right. MR. PEASE: I don't think it went up to $2.00 a gallon between February 9th and March. MR. PALMER: No, but I think after some period of time of being up, the proponents of that change said oh, this isn't going to go away, let's get something done about an increase. In any event, they were able to convince the Board of County Commissioners individually, and then finally collectively at the meeting. And there was extensive discussion by people who spoke at the meeting. I think there was about 10 or 15 minutes of discussion in questions asked by the Board of County Commissioners in regard to the matter. So it was well analyzed by the board. MR. PEASE: Is it possible, Maria, for me to get a copy of that transcript? MS. CRUZ: Sure. MR. PEASE: That portion. MR. PALMER: It's also on video tape, if you'd like to see it. Page 43 April 4, 2000 That's up at IT, in this building. MR. PEASE: No, I'll just read it. Thank you. But that was disturbing. The process was what was disturbing. For me it -- to me it made me feel unimportant, and a question that I put in my letter that basically, I'm not sure that there's a benefit to me being on the board if it's just going to get walked all over and headed straight to County Commissioners without any discussion or any opportunity to even make a statement on it. I do agree with it, and I put that in the letter. You know, I agree with the end result. I just am very disappointed and questioning the value of this board or this committee if it's just a matter of going straight to the commissioners. MR. CSOGI: I agree. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: My understanding that the reason it was done that way is because it was an emergency situation, and that the Board of County Commissioners felt that if we had to sit here and decide it as a board on the issue and then present it to them, the situation wouldn't be taken care of in a timely fashion. MR. PALMER: That's true. And then the idea about the general overall review of the taxicab rates, there's no suggestion that that is not going to go through the entire deliberative process. In fact, they want that to be done so that after it's analyzed, recommended by this board, then it's presented to them within a six-month period of time. The only reason this was done the way it was done is because they wanted to make the decision and they wanted to make it expeditiously without -- if it went before this board, it would have been at least another 30 days. I mean, that's just a matter of course. Unless there were special meetings called for it or anything like that. And there was never a suggestion to at least the County Attorney's Office that that be done. MR. PEASE: That's correct. MR. PALMER: But I just wanted to mention that somebody's got to get the ball rolling about the general taxicab rate analysis so that we are not backed up against a time pressure at the end Page 44 April 4, 2000 of the six-month period of time. It seems like the sooner, the better. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: I would be happy to send out a letter to all of the taxicab people that are in the industry now. MR. PALMER: I know that a number of people that have called the County Attorney's Office are interested in getting input into this process, because they do feel that they're outdated and should be raised at least to a certain degree. The question is how much. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: What particular input are we going to be looking for from the people in the industry to provide to this board? MR. PALMER: I would think recommendations as to what the increase ought to be. Specific like. For example, would it be 10 cents per fifth mile in the second rate. And why. How does the revenue generated today under these rates compare to the revenue of 1991. It seems like there would be some logical relationship between the increase in cost and the increase in other things to get some kind of parity so that the income today equates to the income in t 991. And the question is, how much of an increase per fifth of a mile would end up resulting in that end result? That's the -- what we really need to analyze. MR. PEASE: Page 16 says, "The report shall consider all the financial and operating reports that are submitted by operators to determine operating ratios, revenues, expenses and the potential impact of any proposed rate changes." MR. PALMER: I would think if I had a taxicab, I could come up with an analysis of what I needed to get me -- essentially equate to what I was doing in 1991, all things considered. A driver of a taxicab knows full well and can put together a great increase that's going to be reasonable. There's a question, if we're going to get any input, we're going to get A to Z, and we're going to have to assimilate them, and get some kind of a curve here as to what is appropriate. MR. PEASE: Cost to be considered will include vehicle operating maintenance, repair expenses, salaries of drivers, Page 45 April 4, 2000 dispatchers, supervisors, insurance costs, taxes, administrative expenses. MR. CSOGI: But it states that we're supposed to have a report in hand from the county administrator stating all this, and then make our decision based on the county administrator's report. MR. PALMER: Well, the county administrator means the county administrator or designee, and in this case it's the staff that does the hands-on work with regard to this board. It doesn't really mean the county administrator himself, it means a functionary. Which means that Maria's department, with assistance and authorization from her superiors, are going to have to get the ball rolling. And there's been a definitive directlye from the Board of County Commissioners. This is not if, and when. This is do this and we want it back in six months. It was a specific delegation of responsibility. MR. CSOGI: So then we're asking for two reports, one from county and then one from private owners? MR. PEASE: Well, the county's supposed to accumulate the -- they're supposed to accumulate all the information. MR. CSOGI: From the owners. I got you. MR. PALMER: As many as will be willing to participate. MR. CSOGI: Right. MR. PALMER: Obviously we can't compel anybody to respond. But it's to get meaningful input and analyze it, and then she'll prepare a report to go to this board. And eventually if it's approved by this board, it would be presented to the Board of County Commissioners presumptively with a request to amend the ordinance to effect those results. MR. PEASE: I do appreciate your office giving us the opportunity to respond in writing after the fact. That was very appreciative. At least someone thought to do that. MR. FLEGAL: Do we know what they charge in other cities? MR. PALMER: I think that might be meaningful as well. That might give at least other cities that have updated this more recently than we have, maybe indicative of what may be Page 46 April 4, 2000 reasonable rates. Although the question is how site specific '- how representative is Miami to Tampa, to Orlando? You get those kinds of questions. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: And it's my understanding that this county has a higher fuel rate than any other county in the state at the moment. MR. PEASE: That's correct. MR. PALMER: It does. The only question is to what extent is that a function of the total overall operating expenses of a taxicab, operating a taxicab? So that may be de minimis, or it may be a lot. I know from operating a taxicab that next to insurance costs, fuel costs are about the second highest item, I remember, in my budget. Therefore, an increase in fuel costs, if you're on the road a lot, has a definite impact as a deduction from your net income. MR. FLEGAL: Well, I guess when I read this and that it was approved, I was kind of upset, because Collier County is a little unique. We're not like most cities where cabs drive up and down the street and you're waiting for somebody to hail them. That doesn't happen here. Very rarely, I would think. I've been here 11 years, and I haven't seen it happen yet where you're walking down the street and somebody's out there trying to flag down a cab. Everything is done, I'm pretty sure, by a telephone call. Come pick me up -- CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Majority. MR. FLEGAL: -- come here. So in giving somebody a $2.00 surcharge and saying it's because fuel prices, and they're driving around, that didn't wash with me, because you're not driving around. You're sitting at The Registry or The Ritz or someplace, or you're sitting at the airport or you're waiting for a telephone call. So the mileage hasn't changed. The only thing that changes has been the price of gas, and it hasn't gone up two bucks a gallon, I'm here to tell you. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: If you're sitting at The Registry Resort and you get a call to pick up somebody in East Naples, in Naples Manor, you have to deadhead to that call to take that Page 47 April 4, 2000 person down to the Winn-Dixie grocery store for $2.35. MR. PEASE: There are zones. You put cars in zones, right? CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Right. But I mean, if they leave that zone and everyone has gone to another zone, to get that car back to a particular zone, you have to deadhead to there. MR. PALMER: Yeah, the assertion was made to the County Attorney's Office that approximately, on average, one-half of the time that a taxicab is on the road is without a passenger in it. MR. FLEGAL: Yeah, but that's the nature of the business. MR. PALMER: But if the cost of fuel goes up, that time of driving around without a passenger in the car deducts from your net income. It does that. There was a judgment made here, and it did state in the ordinance, it was not a detailed analysis, but on average the assumption was that this $2.00 surcharge would essentially equate to cover most but not necessarily all of the increase in the fuel. Now, it's admitted that it was not a detailed analysis of the matter, so it was a judgment call on the -- by the board. MR. FLEGAL: And the little old ladies and little old men who sit there and have no transportation other than a cab and are on a fixed income now all of a sudden are getting hit with two bucks to go down and see the doctor the same distance that they used to have to go. I understand and eventually somebody's going to have to take them back home. But if the object was that half of your business is deadheading, then -- I'm in the real estate business. You know, I don't sell houses every five minutes. So instead of seven percent, maybe I ought to charge 20 percent to sell a house because I'm sitting around waiting to sell a house. It's not logical. You knew when you got in the taxicab business that probably 50 percent of your time your vehicle's going be empty. MR. PALMER: But you were not contemplating these kinds of increases in one of your uncontrollable costs. MR. PEASE: But the amount of the increase '- MR. FLEGAL: The amount of the increase '- MR. PEASE: -- did not occur -- between February 9th and two weeks later was not $2.00 a gallon. Page 48 April 4, 2000 MR. PALMER: No, that's true. MR. FLEGAL: That's the problem. MR. PEASE: And that's where we just got walked all over, in my opinion. MR. PALMER: Well, I -- I mean, the Board of County Commissioners does what the Board of County Commissioners does. And sometimes they may reflect not as much consideration to some of the quasi judicial boards as one may like. The fact is that they made this decision. And the idea was that it's not just between the -- that the price went up between February something and the time of this thing. The fact of the matter, these costs have been going up. It's like when somebody squeezes you, when it hurts to a certain amount, you say ouch. They just happened to say ouch subsequent to this board's last meeting. That's just a matter of their prerogative. MR. PEASE: Well, Cliff does a very good job of representing the people, and I commend you for that. Because looking out for the customer is important. MR. FLEGAL: That's what we're supposed to do. MR. PEASE: And at the same time, we need operators to be viable, or they won't be serving the public. MR. FLEGAL: I mean, I have nothing -- if they can prove to me they need some money, I don't have a prob -- and I know gas went up since 1991 to today. That's an easy thing to show. Real easy. But to hit everybody with a $2.00 surcharge I think is a little beyond the scope of reality. That's my problem with it. If they had said, hey, we're going to do an additional 10 cents or 15 cents for a fifth of a mile or something, I'd probably say well, that's probably reasonable, I don't know. But to just say everybody that opens the door of a taxicab has got to get hit with two bucks, the little old person that -- the way Collier County runs, by phone calls, not by hailing cabs. You're hurting a lot of people. MR. PALMER: Let me explain how that happened. The original ordinance was drafted with a $2.00 surcharge of the idea that the meters would not have to be re-calibrated. So that -- and Page 49 April 4, 2000 we were going to have a notice that would say avoid the expense and aggravation of going and getting a meter re-calibrated, what the notice essentially said, you have a temporary increase and your fee will be $2.00 -- the meter plus $2.00. MR. FLEGAL: Right. MR. PALMER: And therefore, there was no way to equate it to a tenth -- a fifth of a mile in the lower band rate. You could do that if you were going to change the meters. Well, as it turned out, the board at the meeting said -- and I wasn't there, but said no, we're going to have the meters re-calibrated. Which means they could have put it down to 10 cents per fifth of a mile with the second band, but they didn't think -- they didn't do that. That could have been done. If you're going to re-calibrate the meters, you don't have to put it in the first increment. MR. FLEGAL: Right. MR. PALMER: But that wasn't done. And, therefore, what you're saying is it could have been sliced finer than an increment in the first fifth mile. And the only reason that was done that way is because we were trying to avoid the cost of re-calibration of meters of apparently something close to 300 taxicabs that operate in Collier County. But the board chose to go ahead and have the meters re-calibrated. MR. CSOGI: Or the letter could have read over so many miles. MR. FLEGAL: Well, if you look at -- and I have no idea what the average trip here is in Collier County. And if it's just locally here around town, it's probably not a lot. You know, five miles, six miles. I don't know, but that's probably average. So in -- let's say you make -- you go pick somebody up, take them somewhere else. So every time you do a six-mile stint, you know, it's two bucks a pop. Gas didn't go up that much, I'm sorry. So that's my problem. You know, we're giving these folks a lot of money when a lot of money isn't what they deserve. They deserve something, but it isn't a lot of money. That's where I have a problem. We weren't asked, and I understand the commissioners can do anything they like, but it doesn't seem like Page 50 April 4, 2000 there was any thought going into this process as to what's the real cost, how many trips are you making, how long are these trips. You know, you deserve something, but something shouldn't be, you know, a $10 bill if it should be a dollar bill. That's where I have a problem. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: But now that they've put it into the re-calibration of the meter, all of us have to go and get all of our meters re-calibrated and sealed again by the State of Florida, Department of Agriculture. MR. FLEGAL: That's fine. You asked for the increase, so I have no qualms about anybody that says, oh, gee, I've got to spend some extra effort. You asked for the increase, live with it. You've got to spend money to get it calibrated, your problem. It's the cost of doing business. Happens every day. Names change, you've got to get new stationery, you've got to get -- and it happens. Computer programs change, you've got to buy new software. That's the price of doing business. I do it all the time. MR. CSOGI: Or like I was saying, Cliff, you go over so many miles, you could save $1.00 for the first five miles and then another dollar for the next five miles. MR. FLEGAL: Whatever. It just '- MR. PALMER: Well, the reason '- MR. CSOGI: It would get around the calibration. MR. PALMER: The reason the board was convinced to go to the re-calibration is because they were concerned that people were going to think that they were getting ripped off by the cab drivers, notwithstanding a clear and precise notice written in English and in Spanish. They were convinced that unless it was on the meter, people were going to question the rate. And adding on so much per mile, which requires a mathematical calculation with a passenger, would be far on the side of people -- if they think they're going to get scammed, they wouldn't be able to sit there and figure out the incremental difference based on mileage. So that '- MR. CSOGI: No, I'm saying 0 to five miles, it would be a dollar surcharge, five miles to 20 miles, it would be an additional dollar. Page 51 April 4, 2000 MR. PALMER: What I'm saying is, the passenger would have to make the calculation to verify the rate. MR. CSOGI: Okay. MR. PALMER: And that wouldn't '- MR. FLEGAL: I like the meter change. It's -- you know, instead of whatever it is, $1.75 for the first fifth or something like that '- MR. PALMER: Right. MR. FLEGAL: -- so it's $2.00, and then I can't remember what it is after that. But -- and then instead of 50 cents a mile, it's 60 cents every fifth of a mile. MR. PALMER: If you're going to go ahead and re-calibrate the meter, you could have done it '- MR. FLEGAL: Right. MR. PALMER: -- in any formula that made sense. MR. FLEGAL: And it would have been a lot more palatable, and it probably wouldn't have been $2.00, it would have probably ended up something a whole lot less. MR. PALMER: Well, actually, if it was a long trip, it could have far exceeded $2.00. If it was a short trip, it might have been 50 cents. It would have been a function basically of the length of the trip. MR. PEASE: If this taxi -- if the taxi operators in this county would have on an ongoing basis brought to our attention the rate changes that were necessary, instead of waiting nine years '- and still today nobody's come forward, even after six months ago I suggested they come forward, and now it's a crisis, you know, that doesn't fly too well with me at all. And I was at the -- I want to say, at the forefront, once I got on the board, of saying hey, this hasn't been looked at. We need to look at this. We need operators to come in and talk about this issue, and nothing happened, so now it's a crisis. MR. PALMER: I can understand that. When I was driving taxicab, I would have felt I wouldn't have had enough time or inclination to go down to the Washington D.C. Board of -- or City Council and try to get analysis, a rate increase. I'd just go ahead and do the best I could. Page 52 April 4, 2000 I think it's hard for individuals to take that initiative. And I'd be interested to see what kind of response we get from a written invitation to get involved. MR. PEASE: There are two board meetings a year that we have that fall in the summer months. And I guarantee you, the operators have time in the summer months to work on this, and should work on this. They should be proactive and allow '- MR. PALMER: Well, I agree. MR. PEASE: -- government the opportunity to work with '- MR. PALMER: I agree, I'm not '- MR. PEASE: -- them instead of against them. MR. PALMER: But it is difficult for a man that's driving a cab to take the initiative to say yes, I will get the ball rolling about a rate increase. It's sort of a daunting thing as an individual. I would think a big cab company would be more inclined to get the ball rolling. They've got more cabs at interest and so forth. But the little guy with one taxicab, you know, he says oh, I '- CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: He feels like he's up against the world. MR. PALMER: --just can't do it. Yeah, it's just too daunting a task even to think about. You know, it makes you weak just thinking about it. But a big cab company, it seems like they could -- they've got the wherewithal to really sort of get the impetus going. MR. FLEGAL: Not if they know what they're doing. They already have this information. MR. PALMER: And hopefully we will get some meaningful, positive and timely responses in response to Maria's invitation, written invitation. MR. FLEGAL: I mean, if you're running a cab company-- and I used to have 18-wheelers on the road, so I know a little something about operating vehicles cross-country and what it costs. The mileage they drive, you know, if they drive 500 miles a month or a week or whatever, "X" of those miles have people in it. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Paved miles. MR. FLEGAL: And it's real easy to calculate out, you know, Page 53 April 4, 2000 if you're driving paid miles of -- you're making "X" dollars, and then you're turning around and saying we're not making any money because gas price is up, your vehicles either aren't getting good mileage or something. I mean, I used to get three miles a gallon on an 18-wheeler, so I spent a lot on fuel. MR. PEASE: I don't understand why we're spending county money to work hard to get a response to raise the rate. I don't understand why we need to spend money to do that, when it should be something they want to do to begin with. MR. PALMER: Well, we're just -- we've been instructed to do things by the Board of County Commissioners, and that's that. We're going to do it. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: It's my understanding that this is a six-month increase and that it automatically after six months is going to get dropped, unless more evidence is provided to the Board of Commissioners to '- MR. PALMER: No, my understanding was that they want a definitive recommendation, either no increase is required or the following increase is recommended. But not just to let it go away and say oh, we couldn't put it together in six months. They want something back '- MR. PEASE: Who do they want that from? MR. PALMER: -- in six months. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: But I mean, that $2.00 was added on to there. MR. PALMER: The $2.00 added on '- MR. FLEGAL: No. MR. PALMER: No, it's an indefinite duration. MR. FLEGAL: Forever. MR. PALMER: It can be dropped out or modified by resolution of the Board of County Commissioners. So if the price of gasoline would drop off tomorrow, they could drop this tomorrow. It does not have an automatic duration of six months. Although, the assumption was -- sort of the doomsday assumption was '- CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: No, I understand that. But I mean after the six-month period. Page 54 April 4, 2000 MR. FLEGAL: It can keep going. MR. PALMER: No, they could continue on. MR. FLEGAL: It keeps going. MR. PALMER: What they want is they want a general rate analysis at the end of the six-month period of time, which means that may affect -- they may -- if they come up with what they think is a fair rate, they may just basically roll out the emergency rate increase and roll into whatever it is that the generated increase may be. Or they might have a general rate increase and have some kind of incremental emergency rate increase of a continued temporary duration. Who knows what the figures will show. MR. FLEGAL: Do we know who asked for the rate increase? Say phone calls were made. Do we know? MR. PALMER: I do not know what members of the public contacted various commissioners to get the ball rolling. Nobody mentioned that to me. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: I know that my husband was instrumental in getting it approved by the board. But he was asked by other taxicab providers also to '- MR. PALMER: The County Attorney's Office '- CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: -- speak on their behalf. MR. PALMER: -- had input from three taxicab companies during the process. MR. FLEGAL: Right, yeah. MR. PALMER: And they were very actively involved and seemed to be interested in getting input to the County Attorney's Office, which actually essentially recommended the policy to the Board of County Commissioners. And except for the re-calibration, the recommendation was accepted. But it was based on input and the distillation of various recommendations from the three cab companies. We had a lot of divergent requests. MR. PEASE: So the three taxicab companies were instrumental in the drafting of the ordinance that the commissioners signed? MR. PALMER: They actually got input in the County Page 55 April 4, 2000 Attorney's Office, and they were diversion viewpoints, and we've actually sat down and read up what we thought was meaningful policy and submitted it to the Board of County Commissioners. And the thing that they did not dis -- they did not agree with, we were trying to avoid the re-calibration of the meters, and they did not accept that. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: But the original phone call that was made from my office to the Board of County Commissioners was do you want us to present this to the VAC board or do you want us to bring it right to your board? And they indicated that they wanted it to go directly to the Board of County Commissioners. That's why it was done that way. MR. PALMER: Well, that -- otherwise, we wouldn't have gone with an emergency ordinance, we would have gone with the regular ordinance. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: So it's at the request that it was done that way. MR. PEASE: It's just ironic, three years I've been trying to get something on the ordinance changed. And amazingly, it's done. Poof. MR. FLEGAL: Well, we've worked this to death. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Are we going to schedule a workshop that we can discuss some of these other items, or should we let it go until July? What do you feel as a board? MR. PEASE: Well, I don't know how long it's going to take to get these letters out to these taxicab operators. How long do you guys need to get that done? MS. CRUZ: A lot of time. We can generate the letter, and that -- I mean, time is -- it's not an abundance, but we can fit it in our schedule and send out the letters, if it needs to be done. MR. PEASE: Maybe a workshop 30 days before we meet again so that we can deal with this rate deal and '- MR. FLEGAL: The information that we get from the people, I mean, I'd like it to be specific. I mean, I'm going to be interested in what kind of miles they're driving and, you know, miles with people, miles without. Because, you know, it's -- I've been there. I know what you should have. Just saying, gee, my prices went Page 56 April 4, 2000 up isn't going to get it, or the gas price in '91 '- CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Exactly. You have to have evidence. MR. FLEGAL: -- was something and today it's something, so I want "X". You know, maybe you should be getting better mileage on your car and you don't care. A guy sits there and keeps the motor running all the time or he's racing from point A to point B and taking the mileage down, he should be getting 15 miles to the gallon and he's getting 10, that's not my problem that you don't know how to drive. MR, PALMER: Yeah, it is '- MR, FLEGAL: I know all about that, too. MR. PALMER: And certainly no rates are going to be based on the worst case scenario, they're going to be based on some kind of averaging of sort of common experiences by these companies. But we -- if in fact we get sort of disappointing response, it may be an indication that there was not any crying need for a general rate increase. It would seem if you are interested in a rate increase, you will at least get something back to Maria, even if it isn't well drafted and analytical, to say yes, I need a rate increase. If we get 10 percent response and it's kind of lukewarm, it looks like it may be a problem that doesn't need to get fixed. MR. FLEGAL: Yeah. And that's why I also say what do they do in other towns. There's other -- forgetting the fuel price in Collier County, what do other towns of -- in our size, so to speak, what's their base rate? I mean, are they at 1.75 or are they at 2.75? Give us a hint. Because I don't honestly don't know. I mean, I could call around and find out. But maybe we're so far off the mark there that we're hurting ourselves. I honestly don't know. MR. PEASE: Are you asking staff to prepare a report on '- MR. FLEGAL: Well, that's not '- MR. PEASE: -- the different rates? MR. FLEGAL: -- not something -- it's not something this committee does, it's something that the county should provide this committee. That's what the ordinance says they're to do. Page 57 April 4, 2000 MR. PEASE: So you'd like to see staff do some checking of prices in different markets. MR. FLEGAL: Sure. I mean, besides what your costs are to operate. Maybe you don't know how to run a business. I honestly don't know. So tell me what's going on in other cities. You know, if you're a bad business person, then that's not my fault. MR. PEASE: Right. MR. FLEGAL: So we need some other direction to make it all make sense. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: I would like to see staff produce a letter sent out to the taxicab operators that are currently holding certificates. Perhaps by April 15th? MR. PALMER: Well, actually, if she wants me to, I could have a draft letter for Maria by 2:00 this afternoon. I can E-mail it to her. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Whatever. MR. PEASE: Maybe a response by May 5th, a workshop by June 5th -- CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Right, exactly. MR. PEASE: -- and we vote on it July 5th, and then it goes to the County Commissioners right after that? MR. PALMER: My understanding is that they want -- I would assume they want something on an agenda within six months of two weeks ago, a finished product with a recommendation. MR. PEASE: That would work. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: That would work. MR. FLEGAL: Because we've got to do it under a public hearing basis, so yeah, that would work for us. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Why don't we do that. MR. PALMER: Maria, if you would like, I'll get you an E-mail letter this afternoon. MS. CRUZ: Please. Thank you. MR. PEASE: Is everybody comfortable meeting July 5th, a day after the holiday? MR. CSOGI: That's in the middle of the week, I think. MR. PEASE: I'm comfortable with it. Page 58 April 4, 2000 CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: I should be fine. MR. FLEGAL: I'll be in town, so that's not a problem. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: And we'll schedule a workshop for the first week in June? MR. PEASE: With requesting input from taxi operators at that. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Right. MR. PALMER: I will be very specific in the letter of the type of input we want. We just don't want generalizations, you know, yes, I need a rate increase. I'm going to essentially set out the kind of material that would be helpful to -- and of course the more sophisticated recipient will probably provide a more sophisticated response. But hopefully we'll get enough data where you can sit down and analyze and then come up with a recommendation. MR. PEASE: Staff's comfortable with that time line for what they have to do? MS. CRUZ: 15th of June? Is that the date. MR. PEASE: Is the workshop when all the -- like for instance, all the rates from different areas that would be comparable to Naples. MS. CRUZ: You want all that information provided in the workshop? MR. PEASE: Correct. CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Which would be the '- MS. CRUZ: First week of June. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Right. Is there any day during the week that's better for other people here than '- MR. PEASE: June, you can have the whole week. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: June 6th? Should we just randomly pick that? If we can find a room that's available June 6th. MS. CRUZ: or not. MR. PEASE: What time will that be? CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Right, I need to find out if the room is available At her offices. The earlier the better for me. Page 59 April 4, 2000 MR. FLEGAL: I'm flexible, so '- CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: What time is the earliest that we can do this? MR. FLEGAL: Depending on when the room is available. 8:30, 9:00, something. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: 8:30, 9:00, early. MR. CSOGI: Will you send out a letter for that meeting? MS. CRUZ: Sure. MR. FLEGAL: Anything else? CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Do we have any old business, more old business to discuss? Reports? Discussion? I think we've had quite a bit of that. MR. FLEGAL: I make a motion we adjourn. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: Do I have a second on that? MR. PEASE: Second. CHAIRPERSON BAISLEY: All in favor, say aye. We're adjourned. There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 11:05 a.m. PUBLIC VEHICLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE PAT BAISLEY, CHAIRPERSON TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC., BY CHERIE' R. LEONE, RPR Page 60