BCC Minutes 03/27/2012 R BCC
REGULAR
MEETING
MINUTES
MARCH 27, 2012
March 27, 2012
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, March 27, 2012
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Fred Coyle
Jim Coletta
Donna Fiala
Georgia Hiller
Tom Henning
ALSO PRESENT:
Leo Ochs, County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal Kinzel, Office of the Clerk of Courts
Ian Mitchell, BCC Executive Manager
Mike Sheffield, Business Operations Manager — CMO
Page 1
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Community Redevelopment Agency Board (CRAB)
Airport Authority
of I
L •i•
r
( j
AGENDA
Board of County Commission Chambers
Collier County Government Center
3299 Tamiami Trail East, 3rd Floor
Naples FL 34112
March 27, 2012
9:00 AM
Fred W. Coyle - BCC Chairman; Commissioner, District 4
Jim Coletta - BCC Vice-Chairman; Commissioner, District 5; CRAB Chairman
Donna Fiala - BCC Commissioner, District 1; CRAB Vice-Chairman
Georgia Hiller - BCC Commissioner, District 2 (Arrived at 10:50 a.m.)
Tom Henning - BCC Commissioner, District 3
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER WITH THE
EXECUTIVE MANAGER TO THE BCC PRIOR TO PRESENTATION OF THE
AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL
RECEIVE UP TO THREE (3) MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY
THE CHAIRMAN.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53 AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE
BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
March 27, 2012
Page 1
REQUESTS TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT ON
THIS AGENDA MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING WITH EXPLANATION
TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF
THE MEETING AND WILL BE HEARD UNDER "PUBLIC PETITIONS."
PUBLIC PETITIONS ARE LIMITED TO THE PRESENTER, WITH A
MAXIMUM TIME OF TEN MINUTES.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDING PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN
ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES
MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3335 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL,
SUITE 1, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112-5356, (239) 252-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M
1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
A. Pastor Bob Scudieri —Faith Lutheran Church
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of today's regular, consent and summary agenda as amended (Ex
Parte Disclosure provided by Commission members for consent and
summary agenda.)
B. February 28, 2012 - BCC/Regular Meeting
3. SERVICE AWARDS
A. EMPLOYEE
March 27, 2012
Page 2
1) 25 Year Attendees
a) Steven Epright, EMS
b) Tessie Sillery, Alternative Transportation Modes
4. PROCLAMATIONS
A. Proclamation designating March 30, 2012 as Welcome Home Vietnam
Veterans Day. To be accepted by Petra Jones, Executive Director, Mental
Health Association of Southwest Florida. Sponsored by Commissioner
Coyle.
B. Proclamation designating March 2012 as American Red Cross Month in
Collier County. To be accepted by Heidi Ruster, Regional CEO, American
Red Cross Southern Gulf Region. Sponsored by Commissioner Hiller.
C. Proclamation designating March 26th-30th as the 32nd Annual Know Your
County Government Week in Collier County. To be accepted by Josh
Zvibleman, Barron Collier High School, and Humberto Mendez-Tomasi,
Naples High School. Sponsored by the Board of County Commissioners.
D. Proclamation designating March 2012 as Certified Government Financial
Managers Month in Collier County. To be accepted by Chris Tarantino and
officers of the Naples Paradise Chapter of the Association of Government
Accountants. Sponsored by the Board of County Commissioners.
5. PRESENTATIONS
A. This item to be heard at 11:00 a.m. Presentation by Steve Holmes,
Executive Director of the Florida Commission for the Transportation
Disadvantaged.
6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
7. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS
Item 8 and 9 to be heard no sooner than 1:00 pm unless otherwise noted.
March 27, 2012
Page 3
8. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
9. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
10. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
A. Appointment of a member to the Development Services Advisory
Committee.
B. Appointment of members to the Bayshore Beautification MSTU Advisory
Committee.
C. Appointment of members to the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition
Advisory Committee.
D. Advisory Board Vacancies press release March 9, 2012, with a deadline for
acceptance of March 29, 2012.
11. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
A. Recommendation to provide direction regarding modification or elimination
of Planning Communities. (David Weeks, Comprehensive Planning
Manager)
B. Recommendation to approve the purchase of property insurance effective
April 1, 2012 in the estimated amount of$3,560,000. (Jeff Walker, Risk
Management Director)
C. Recommendation to approve Contract 11-5782 with AECOM Technical
Services, Inc., CDM Smith Inc. and Hole Montes, Inc., for three contracts
for "Wastewater Basin Analyses," Project Numbers 70043, 70044, 70046,
70050, 70051, and 70064, in the estimated amount of$2,000,000 per year
for each consultant, or a total annual amount of$6,000,000 with a contract
length of 6-years, to perform professional engineering services with one
engineering consultant being assigned to each of the three basins selected for
analysis. (Craig Pajer, Public Utilities Principal Project Manager)
D. Recommendation to not renew the Subcontracted Transportation Provider
(STP) Agreement with the Florida Commission for the Transportation
March 27, 2012
Page 4
Disadvantaged (FCTD) that is due to expire June 30, 2012 for the provision
of transportation for qualified Medicaid recipients. (Michelle Arnold,
Alternative Transportation Modes Director)
E. Recommendation to accept the staff report on the status of the Advanced
Life Support (ALS) Engine Programs. (Walter Kopka, Interim EMS Chief)
F. This item to be heard at 10:00 a.m. Recommendation to deny the petition
by the Quincy Square Home Owners Association for financial relief from
the Collier County Water-Sewer District in the form of a future credit for
funds already paid to the Collier County Water-Sewer District for water
bills. (Tom Wides, Public Utilities Operations Support Director)
G. Recommendation to award RFP #11-5785, Management of Pelican Bay
Tennis Center and authorize the Chairman to sign a contract with DBA/The
Naples Tennis Academy. (Barry Williams, Parks and Recreation Director)
H. Recommendation to accept a staff report and provide direction regarding the
proposed Neighborhood Stabilization Program 3 (NSP-3) alternative
strategy and associated implementation actions. (Steve Carnell, Interim
Public Services Administrator)
I. Recommendation to confirm the appointment of Mr. Nick Casalanguida to
the position of Growth Management Division Administrator. (Leo Ochs,
County Manager)
J. Recommendation to confirm the appointment of Mr. George Yilmaz to the
position of Public Utilities Division Administrator. (Leo Ochs, County
Manager)
K. Recommendation to adopt a Resolution renaming the Collier County Growth
Management Transportation Building, 2885 South Horseshoe Drive,
"Norman Feder Transportation Building". Sponsored by Commissioner
Tom Henning and supported by 1,023 residents of Collier County.
(Mike Sheffield, Business Operations Manager, County Manager's Office)
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
March 27, 2012
Page 5
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND/OR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY
A. AIRPORT
1) Recommendation to authorize County Attorney to take all necessary
action, including filing a lawsuit, to evict Three Mayhoods, LLC from
its present location at Immokalee Regional Airport, and to pursue any
holdover rent, damages and costs that may be due and owing to the
Airport Authority.
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
1) Recommendation that the Collier County Community Redevelopment
Agency (CRA) review and discuss the CRA Advisory Board's
recommendation concerning the Bayshore Gateway Triangle CRA
Executive Director's contract and provide direction. (David Jackson,
Bayshore Gateway Triangle CRA Executive Director)
2) This item to be heard at 1:15 p.m. Recommendation the Board of
County Commissioners, acting as the Community Redevelopment
Agency (CRA) Immokalee, approve the purchase of two adjoining
vacant parcels on the corner of South 1st Street and Main Street for
construction of the First Street Plaza, as the Gateway Entry and Public
Realm Plaza project in downtown Immokalee. The cost of land
acquisition shall not exceed $245,144.20. (Penny Phillippi,
Immokalee CRA Executive Director)
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
16. CONSENT AGENDA - All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the Board, that item(s) will
be removed from the Consent Agenda and considered separately.
March 27, 2012
Page 6
A. GROWTH MANAGEMENT DIVISION
1) Recommendation to accept a Speed Limit Study Report and adopt a
Resolution of the Board of County Commissioners of Collier County,
Florida, authorizing a speed limit decrease from forty-five miles per
hour (45 mph) to forty miles per hour (40 mph) on Vanderbilt Drive
(CR 901) from 9th Street to Bonita Beach Road and at a cost of
approximately $500.
2) Recommendation to authorize the County Manager, or his designee,
to release the Utility Performance Security Bond to the Project
Engineer or the Developer's designated agent for New Hope
Ministries, Phase 2.
3) Recommendation to award a construction contract to Quality
Enterprises, Inc. for Bid#12-5825 - Estey Avenue/Lakewood
Boulevard Intersection Improvements, Project No. 60016, in the
amount of$75,192.60.
4) Recommendation to award Contract #12-5875, the Gordon River
Extension Restoration Project to Quality Enterprises USA, Inc. in the
amount of$452,760 and authorize the Chairman to sign the standard
Board approved contracts after legal review by the County Attorney's
Office.
5) Recommendation to approve final acceptance of the water and sewer
utility facilities for Marsala at Tiburon and to authorize the County
Manager, or his designee, to release any Utilities Performance
Security to the Project Engineer or the Developer's designated agent.
6) Recommendation to Recommendation to grant final approval of the
roadway (private) and drainage improvements for the final plat of
Sterling Oaks with the roadway and drainage improvements being
privately maintained and authorizing the release of the maintenance
security and acceptance of the plat dedications.
7) This item requires that ex parte disclosure be provided by Com
Commission members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all
participants are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to
March 27, 2012
Page 7
approve for recording the final plat of Twineagles Grand Arbors,
approval of the standard form Construction and Maintenance
Agreement and approval of the amount of the performance security.
8) This item requires that ex parte disclosure be provided by
Commission members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all
participants are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to
accept an alternate security from the current owner of the subdivision
known as Summit Place in Naples, Phase II, and enter into a new
Construction and Maintenance Agreement for subdivision
improvements.
9) This item requires that ex parte disclosure be provided by
Commission members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all
participants are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to
accept an alternate security from the current owner of the subdivision
known as Bristol Pines, Phase II, and enter into a new Construction
and Maintenance Agreement for subdivision improvements.
10) Recommendation to grant final approval of roadway (private) and
drainage improvements for the final plat of Sterling Oaks, Phase 3A
with roadway and drainage improvements privately maintained and
authorize the release of the maintenance security and acceptance of
plat dedications.
11) This item requires that ex parte disclosure be provided by
Commission members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all
participants are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to
approve recording the final plat of Reflection Lakes at Naples,
Phase 3J within the Walnut Lakes PUD.
12) Recommendation to approve the release of a $54,200 lien for payment
of$19,281.15, in the Code Enforcement Action entitled Board of
County Commissioners vs. Treasure B. and Jeff Ahlbrandt, Code
Enforcement Board Case No. CESD20090012965, relating to
property located at 6090 Painted Leaf Lane, Collier County, Florida.
13) Recommendation to award Bid #12-5858 for "Goodlette Road from
Pine Ridge Road to Vanderbilt Beach Road Landscape Maintenance"
March 27, 2012
Page 8
to Commercial Land Maintenance. The annual expenditures are
estimated to be $60,039.50.
14) This item requires that ex parte disclosure be provided by
Commission members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all
participants are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to
approve for recording the final plat of the Quarry Phase 3 Replat, Lots
117, 118 and 119.
15) Recommendation to approve a budget amendment in the amount of
$19,394.13 for Traffic Accident Reimbursements, Project #60076.1,
and to recognize revenues for future repairs.
16) This item requires that ex parte disclosure be provided by
Commission members. Should a hearing be held on this item, all
participants are required to be sworn in. Recommendation to
authorize the Clerk of Courts to release a security in the amount of
$5,000 which was posted as a development guaranty for work
associated with Bucks Run Access.
17) Recommendation to approve two Releases of Lien, for the Saxon
Manor Isles Apartments Limited Partnership and the Saxon Manor
Isles Apartments II Limited Partnership, due to impact fees being paid
in full in accordance with the Multi-family Rental Impact Fee Deferral
Program, as set forth by Section 74-401(e) and 74-401(g) (5) of the
Collier County Code of Laws and Ordinances.
18) Recommendation to approve a Settlement Agreement and Release
with Malcolm Pirnie, Inc., to settle all outstanding claims related to
consulting services provided in connection with project and oversight
services on Forest Lakes MSTU Projects F-53 and F-56, and to
authorize payment.
B. COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
1) Recommendation that the Collier County Community Redevelopment
Agency review and approve the Bayshore Gateway Triangle and
Immokalee CRA's 2011 Annual Reports, forward the reports to the
March 27, 2012
Page 9
Board of County Commissioners and Clerk of Courts and publish
public notice of the filing.
2) Recommendation the Collier County Community Redevelopment
Agency (CRA) authorize the CRA Director to take appropriate steps
to sell twenty-three (23) CRA owned vacant lots within the
Bayshore/Gateway Triangle Mixed Use District Overlay in
accordance with Florida Statute 163.380 and bring back any offers
deemed to meet the terms of the proposal for review and approval.
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES DIVISION
1) Recommendation to reject all bids received in response to Invitation
to Bid #11-5624, Trenchless Sewer System Rehabilitation Services.
2) Recommendation to approve deduct Change Order No. 2 in an
amount of$73,587.43 to Contract #10-5555 with Haskins, Inc., for
Isles of Capri Water Main Replacement Phase II Project No. 71010.
3) Recommendation to a) approve a Utility Work Agreement with the
Florida Department of Transportation; b) approve a Florida
Department of Transportation standard form Resolution authorizing
the Chairman of the Board of County Commissioners to execute the
agreement; c) approve a Florida Department of Transportation
standard form Utility Termination Agreement for Utility Work by
Highway Contractor Agreement; and, d) approve a letter to Florida
Department of Transportation and the Florida Department of Financial
Services, Division of Treasury to terminate a previously executed
Memorandum of Agreement.
D. PUBLIC SERVICES DIVISION
1) Recommendation to approve releases of lien for participants in the
Collier County affordable housing deferred impact fee program that
are no longer subject to the restrictions imposed by the program.
2) Recommendation to approve two (2) releases of lien for deferral of
100 percent of Collier County impact fees for owner occupied
affordable housing dwelling units that have been repaid in full.
March 27, 2012
Page 10
3) Recommendation to approve an agreement with Naples Community
Health Care (NCH) System in cooperation with the Safe and Healthy
Children's Coalition of Collier County to provide water safety
instruction to Collier County youth identified with the SWIM Central
Program in the amount of$4,000.
4) Recommendation to approve a sub-lease with the Board of Trustees of
the Internal Improvement Land Trust Fund of the State of Florida for
Parks and Recreation Department to manage the newly constructed
Isles of Capri Paddle Craft Park constructed by Rookery Bay National
Estuarine Research Reserve.
5) Recommendation to approve Request for Quote (RFQ) #12-5849
Maintenance Plan for Coolers/Heaters at Collier County aquatic
facilities to Alex's Pool Heating and Air Conditioning for an amount
not to exceed $50,000 annually.
6) Recommendation to adopt a Resolution for the Collier County Parks
and Recreation Department Facilities and Outdoor Areas License and
Fee Policy, including amendments to Resolution 2010-201, repealing
all previous resolutions and establishing the policy anew.
7) Recommendation to approve conceptual changes to the Animal
Control Ordinance and direct the County Manager or his designee to
prepare actual ordinance language changes to be approved by the
Board at a future meeting.
8) Recommendation to approve a substantial amendment to the Collier
County 2011-12 Department of Housing and Urban Development
(HUD) Action Plan. The amendment allows Community
Development Block Grant (CDBG) funds of$775,016 to be
re-programmed from Eagle Lakes Park to Immokalee South Park.
9) Recommendation to sign three (3) amendments to the agreement with
the Area Agency on Aging of Southwest Florida, Inc., dba, Senior
Choices of Southwest Florida, for FY12 Home Care for the Elderly
(HCE) , Alzheimer's Disease Initiative (ADI) and Community Care
for the Elderly (CCE) programs, along with required budget
amendments for a total fiscal impact of$12,794.31.
March 27, 2012
Page 11
10) Recommendation to approve Amendment #3 to an existing
Subrecipient Agreement with Youth Haven, Inc. under the
Homelessness Prevention and Rapid Rehousing Program (HPRP)
to transfer $12,000 from direct services to case management without
affecting the overall budget or funding levels.
E. ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES DIVISION
1) Recommendation to approve Amendment #3 to #09-5343, Letter of
Agreement with Quest Diagnostics, Inc. to extend the agreement
through September 30, 2012 at existing rates, terms and conditions.
2) Recommendation to approve Amendment #1 to Agreement #12-5866
with Matrix Absence Management, Inc. to clarify scope of payroll tax
services for the County's Short Term Disability Insurance Program.
3) Recommendation to add an additional service and commensurate rate
to Contract #10-5437, Temporary Clerical Services, authorize County
Manager or his designee to add future office-related positions and
rates, and approve payment of any past and future associated contract
invoices. Est annual expense for one position requested is $25,000.
F. COUNTY MANAGER OPERATIONS
1) Recommendation to approve award of RFP #11-5766 to Research
Data Services, Inc. for Tourism Research Services in the amount of
$114,900 annually to include a revised termination notification period
of 60 days following County Attorney's Office approval.
2) Recommendation to adopt a resolution approving amendments
(appropriating grants, donations, contributions or insurance proceeds)
to the Fiscal Year 2011-12 Adopted Budget.
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
1) Recommendation the Board of County Commissioners, acting in its
capacity as Collier County Airport Authority, approve a First
Amendment to a Long-Term Ground Lease with Turbo Services, Inc.
March 27, 2012
Page 12
2) Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners, acting as
the Collier County Airport Authority, approve an Advertisement
License Agreement with Seminole Gaming Management, LLC for
advertising at the Immokalee Regional Airport.
3) Recommendation to approve the submittal of a grant application to the
Federal Aviation Administration in the amount of$725,000, subject to
change based on RFP results, for the design and bid of the restoration
of Runway 9-27 at the Immokalee Regional Airport.
4) Recommendation to approve the submittal of a grant application in the
amount of$800,000 subject to change based on RFP results to the
Federal Aviation Administration for the design and bid of the
restoration of Runway 17-35 at the Marco Island Executive Airport.
5) Recommendation to approve a Site License Agreement with the
Seminole Casino at Immokalee for a hot air balloon event and harvest
festival at the Immokalee Regional Airport.
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
1) Commissioner Hiller requests Board approval for reimbursement
regarding attendance at a function serving a Valid Public Purpose.
She will attend the Temple Shalom Golden Gala at the Ritz-Carlton
Naples, Florida on March 17, 2012. $180 to be paid from
Commissioner Hiller's travel budget.
2) Commissioner Coletta requests Board approval for reimbursement
regarding attendance at a function serving a Valid Public Purpose.
He attended the Honor the Free Press Day event at The Hilton Hotel,
Naples, Florida on March 14, 2012. $30 to be paid from
Commissioner Coletta's travel budget.
3) Commissioner Henning requests Board approval for reimbursement
regarding attendance at a function serving a Valid Public Purpose.
He attended Honor the Free Press Event at The Hilton Hotel, Naples,
Florida on March 14, 2012. $30 to be paid from Commissioner
Henning's travel budget.
March 27, 2012
Page 13
4) The Board of County Commissioners recognizes, per Resolution
2009-38, the dissolution of the Horizon Study Oversight Committee.
I. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1) To obtain Board approval for disbursements for the period of
February 25, 2012 through March 2, 2012 and submission into the
official records of the Board.
2) To obtain Board approval for disbursements for the period of
March 3, 2012 through March 9, 2012 and submission into the official
records of the Board.
3) Request that the Board of County Commissioners accepts and approve
capital asset disposition records for time period April 1, 2011 through
September 30, 2011.
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1) Recommendation to approve a Mediated Settlement Agreement with
owners Todd J. Patterson and Linda E. Patterson, and Stipulated Final
Judgment to be drafted incorporating same terms and conditions as the
Mediated Settlement Agreement awarding compensation, attorney
fees & expert costs in the amount $27,040.50 for Parcel 147RDUE in
the lawsuit styled Collier County v. Scott Faunce., et al., Case No. 10-
2684-CA, Collier Blvd. Project No. 68056 (Fiscal Impact $27,040.50)
2) Recommendation to approve Agreed Order Awarding Expert Fees in
connection with Parcel 105 705 in the lawsuit styled Collier County v.
Highland Properties of Lee and Collier Limited, et al., Case No. 06-
0563-CA, Santa Barbara Blvd. Project 62081 Fiscal Impact: $61,230)
3) Recommendation to approve Agreed Order Awarding Expert Fees and
Attorney Fees and Costs in connection with Parcel 111 FEE and
111 TCE in the lawsuit styled Collier County v. AL Subs, Inc., et al.,
Case No.093691-CA, Project No. 60092 (Fiscal Impact $83,000)
March 27, 2012
Page 14
17. SUMMARY AGENDA - THIS SECTION IS FOR ADVERTISED PUBLIC
HEARINGS AND MUST MEET THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA: 1) A
RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL FROM STAFF; 2) UNANIMOUS
RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL BY THE COLLIER COUNTY
PLANNING COMMISSION OR OTHER AUTHORIZING AGENCIES OF
ALL MEMBERS PRESENT AND VOTING; 3) NO WRITTEN OR ORAL
OBJECTIONS TO THE ITEM RECEIVED BY STAFF, THE COLLIER
COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION, OTHER AUTHORIZING
AGENCIES OR THE BOARD, PRIOR TO THE COMMENCEMENT OF
THE BCC MEETING ON WHICH THE ITEMS ARE SCHEDULED TO BE
HEARD; AND 4) NO INDIVIDUALS ARE REGISTERED TO SPEAK IN
OPPOSITION TO THE ITEM. FOR THOSE ITEMS WHICH ARE QUASI-
JUDICIAL IN NATURE, ALL PARTICIPANTS MUST BE SWORN IN.
A. Recommendation to adopt an ordinance amending Ordinance No. 2003-18,
the Collier County Industrial Pretreatment Ordinance, to conform with the
United States Environmental Protection Agency Model Pretreatment
Ordinance as required by Florida Department of Environmental Protection.
B. Recommendation to approve an ordinance adopting the Florida Building
Code 2010 Edition, including local exemption permitting requirements
related to additions, alterations, or repairs (includes water heaters) performed
by a property owner on his or her property, providing updated wind zone
maps, and providing for repeal of Ordinance No. 2009-59 in its entirety.
C. Recommendation to adopt an ordinance amending Ordinance No. 75-16, as
amended, as it relates to procedures for reconsideration of agenda items.
D. Recommendation to adopt a resolution approving amendments
(appropriating carry forward, transfers and supplemental revenue) to the
Fiscal Year 2011-12 Adopted Budget.
18. ADJOURN
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD'S AGENDA SHOULD
BE MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER'S OFFICE AT 252-8383.
March 27,2012
Page 15
March 27, 2012
MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, you have a live mike.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Ladies and gentlemen, the Board of
County Commission meeting is now in order.
Item #1A
INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE — GIVEN BY
PASTOR BOB SCUDIERI, FAITH LUTHERAN CHURCH
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Would you please stand for the
invocation to be delivered by Pastor Bob Scuderi from the Faith
Lutheran Church.
PASTOR SCUDERI: Saint Paul says, be steadfast, immovable,
always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord because you
know your labors in the Lord are not vain.
Let's pry. Heavenly Father, we give you thanks and praise for
this County Commission, and we thank you for the varied gifts of the
members of this commission. You provide for the ongoing care of
this county, cause us to recognize and to act on every opportunity for
fruitful service, send your holy spirit that everything we think, say,
and do may be for the common good.
We give you thanks for Vietnam vets, for the American Red
Cross, for certified government financial managers, for those who help
citizens know how the county government works, and we pray for
steadfastness in doing the work of the Lord.
Help us, Lord, to be steadfast in doing your work, that we will
not give in to easy expediency but have the fortitude to do what is
right always.
In your name we pray, amen.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Please join us in the Pledge of
Allegiance.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
Page 2
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you.
County Manager, I understand you have some changes to the
agenda.
Item #2A
APPROVAL OF TODAY'S REGULAR, CONSENT AND
SUMMARY AGENDA AS AMENDED — APPROVED AND/OR
ADOPTED WITH CHANGES
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. Good morning,
Commissioners. These are the proposed agenda changes for the Board
of County Commissioners' meeting of March 27, 2012.
The first proposal is to withdraw Item 11G. That is at the staffs
request due to a written objection to the proposed vendor award. We
will bring that back at a subsequent meeting.
The next proposed change is to withdraw Item 14A1. This is
done at the airport executive director's request due to him receiving a
signed copy of the subject lease agreement.
The next proposed change is to move Item 16A18 from your
consent agenda to become Item 11N on your regular agenda. That
item is moved at Commissioner Hiller's request.
The next proposed change is to move Item 16B1 from your CRA
consent agenda to become Item 14B3 on your regular agenda. That
change is made at Commissioner Hiller's request.
The next proposed change is to move Item 16B2 from your CRA
consent agenda to become Item 14B4 on your regular agenda. That
change is made at Commissioner Hiller's request.
The next proposed change is to move Item 16C1 from your
public utilities consent agenda today to become Item 11L on the
regular agenda. That move is made at Commissioner Hiller's request.
The next change is to move Item 16D8 from your public services
Page 3
March 27, 2012
consent agenda to become Item 11M on the regular agenda. This
moved is made at Commissioner Hiller's request.
The next proposed change is to move Item 16G2 from your
consent agenda to Item 14A2 under your airport authority regular
agenda. This change is -- excuse me. This move is made at
Commissioner Hiller's request.
The next proposed change is to move Item 16G3 from your
airport consent agenda to become Item 14A3 on the regular agenda.
This move is made at Commissioner Hiller's request.
The next proposed change is to move Item 17C from your
summary agenda to become Item 9A under your advertised public
hearings. That move is made at Commissioner Hiller's request.
And you have a series of time-certain hearing items today,
Commissioners. The first item is 11F, to be heard at 10 a.m. That's
the Quincy Square item; Item 5A is to be heard at 11 a.m. That's the
presentation from the executive director of the state's Transportation
Disadvantaged Program.
The next time-certain is Item 11M now on your regular agenda to
be heard at 11 :30 a.m. having to do with a proposed transfer of funds
between two county park projects.
The next time-certain item is 11K, to be heard immediately after
your lunch at 1 :05. That's a recognition opportunity for Mr. Feder that
we're very excited about.
And, finally, you have a time-certain at 1 :15 to hear Item 14B2,
which is the proposed land acquisition of parcels in downtown
Immokalee as part of the CRA public realm project, and those will be
immediately followed, for efficiency sake, by the other CRA items,
Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, that were moved from your
consent agenda to your regular agenda so we can then get the CRA
staff returned to work.
We have two agenda notes this morning, Commissioners. The
first is, Item 16D6 on the recommendation portion of the executive
Page 4
March 27, 2012
summary is incorrect and should read as follows: The Parks and
Recreation Advisory Board reviewed and approved the proposed fees
at its March 21, 2012, meeting instead of the March 27, 2011,
meeting.
And, finally, Commissioners, a note. You can tell by the
wonderful young people we have here today that we will be having
lunch with the Know Your County Government Teen Citizenship
Program at the East Naples United Methodist Church promptly from
noon to one p.m.
And that is all the changes I have, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Thank you very much.
County Manager (sic), do you have any changes?
MR. KLATZKOW: No changes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. We'll start with the
commissioners. We'll start with Commissioner Hiller for any
additional changes and ex parte disclosure for the consent and
summary agendas.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. I have no changes. And
with respect to the consent, I have no disclosure for 16A7, I have no
disclosure for 16A8 or A9 or Al l or A 14 or A16.
And with respect to the summary, I've had -- with respect to -- we
had one item that's been moved from the consent summary, right, to
the general summary?
MR. OCHS: I'm sorry?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: One of the items was moved, the
ordinance?
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am. The reconsideration ordinance was on
summary. It's been moved to 9A, your advertised public hearing.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I've spoken to two constituents
about that and, otherwise, no other disclosures.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, thank you very much.
Page 5
March 27, 2012
I have no corrections or additions to the agenda. And I, too, have
just about the same as you, except not 17C, but I have all of the other
ones that Commissioner Hiller mentioned; again, no contact with
anybody on those subjects.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. I have no further changes to the
agenda, and I have no ex parte disclosures for the summary or consent
agenda.
Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. Good morning, sir. I have
no changes to the agenda, and I have nothing to declare as far as
communications with the summary or the regular -- or the consent
agenda.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I have no ex parte
communication on today's agenda.
I was reluctant to let 14A1 go, the withdrawal, but leaving it on
the agenda wouldn't be productive for what I have to say.
I think it's important that we -- this negotiation of contract for a
tenant in Immokalee airport has been going on for quite a while. I
think it's fair that the board hears what the objectives were when that
comes back.
In other words, the tenant that has been there for a long time did
not like the contract and, in fact, I think we all received
correspondence that they did it under duress. They signed the contract
under duress. And I think we need more information to see how we
can serve people who we deal with instead of demand from people
who we do business with.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Commissioner?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We have a speaker.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I comment on what
Commissioner Henning just said?
Page 6
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Sure, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you. You know, I think
you make a very good point, Commissioner Henning and, quite
frankly, I don't think we should delay it. I think this should be heard
today, and I think we should get an understanding as to why this
became such an issue.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, the contract has to come
back to us anyways; is that right?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I understand. But my concern is,
is that, you know, you've got time that elapses. And, you know, right
now this is all fresh in our memories. We've seen all the emails. I
think we should hear this today, so I'd like to add it back to the
agenda.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, we might be able to take
care of that under county manager and staff communications, but I
think it would be more productive if we had something in writing
when it comes back.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, I agree with you, but I would
like both. You know, it has to come back, because we have to
approve it. But I would like to hear, you know, exactly what's going
on, assuming that the tenant can make it to hear -- you know, to speak.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, when it comes back, you're going
to have a chance to ask all those questions, so it's coming back.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: All right.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So let's let it come back.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, then, when it comes back I'd
like to ask the county manager to include all the emails that we have
received that was addressed to, you know, all the commissioners by
the tenant as part of the backup material to the contract.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And the emails that were sent by the
airport director to the tenant.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Everything, all of them.
Page 7
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Anything sent by any of the
commissioners, by staff, or by the tenant. All the communications on
this subject should be included in the backup.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Mr. Courtright, what item are you
going to speak on?
MR. COURTRIGHT: Under consent, Airport Authority Item 5.
MR. MITCHELL: 16G5.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: 16G5.
MR. COURTRIGHT: Site license agreement.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, for the record, Mr. Courtright will
be speaking on Item 16G5. It's a recommendation to approve a site
license agreement with the Seminole Casino at Immokalee for a hot
air balloon event and harvest festival at the Immokalee Regional
Airport.
MR. COURTRIGHT: I'd like to state, first of all, that hot air
balloons are a great thing, a lot of fun, but they're dangerous and are
normally held in remote areas where they cannot harm anybody or
anything.
My complaint here is, or my motion to present is a contract, as
requested, a license agreement is in violation of the MOA that has
been provided to the Collier County Parks and Recreation almost a
year ago.
On 26 April 2011, the County Board of County Commissioners
approved an MOA to Collier County Parks and Recreation. I have a
copy of it here. It's explicit. It identifies the responsibilities of parks
and recreation. It identifies the reporting and identifies FAA
responsibility, legal and otherwise, and to give that particular
document that is being requested approved now is -- needs to be
reviewed due to the fact that -- does Collier County Parks and
Recreation have legal financial responsibility for that particular
Page 8
March 27, 2012
program that's proposed? And it states in the MOA that they are
responsible.
The other item is -- and this is -- I know that I get involved in too
many things and have an opinion of too many things. I approached
risk management of the Collier County -- of the Seminole Casino and
suggested to them that, due to circumstances, they have their launch
site at the rodeo grounds. They own the land, there's a lot of room,
and it would not endanger airport activity or anybody else.
I got a really nasty little letter from a gentleman I hadn't even met
stating that he is going to sue me for something or other -- I could
bring it out -- embarrasment and questioning his ability, because he
was with risk management. As a result, I just threw it in the trash;
however, that reflects the attitude taken in regard to the casino's air
balloon activity.
I only tried to advise them that they should have risk
management look at the liability between Collier County Parks and
Recreation, the Collier County Airport Authority, and that was the
extent of it.
I, personally, would like to see the show go on, but I'd like to see
the casino launch and land on their own land, not on airport property.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, thank you.
County Manager (sic), your staff has reviewed this item. Do you
see a legal problem?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You mean county attorney?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: County Attorney.
MR. KLATZKOW: No.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Thank you very much.
MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Do we have a motion to approve the
agenda as modified?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So moved.
Page 9
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Motion by Commissioner Coletta
to move the -- to approve the agenda as modified, and seconded by
Commissioner Fiala.
All in favor, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I'm sorry. Let's hold up the vote a
minute. Commissioner Henning, I thought your light was on from last
time.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No. The -- I think that we
should, either during communications or either -- pull this item to find
out what -- the effects of the day-to-day operation of the Immokalee
airport during this event.
What do you suggest, that we pull this item?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I thought it was already pulled.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Put it on the regular agenda?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Isn't it already pulled?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Not the item that was just addressed.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: The hot air balloon?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No. It was the licensing
agreement with the Seminole Casino gaming. That's what is being
pulled. It's on the bottom of the change sheet, but I think it's --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That's a different item. That is a request
by the Seminole tribe to put an advertisement, a poster, in the window
at the office of the Immokalee Regional Airport. It's separate from the
balloon issue.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I would like to pull 16G5.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Then we have another pull.
What's that going to go to?
MR. OCHS: That will become Item 14A4 on your regular
Page 10
March 27, 2012
agenda, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. 14A4?
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Very well. Now, do we have --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: A motion to approve the agenda as
modified by Commissioner Coletta, seconded by Commissioner Fiala.
All in favor, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: The motion passes unanimously.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Tell me what that number was
again.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: 16G5 goes to 14A4.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you.
Page 11
Proposed Agenda Changes
Board of County Commissioners Meeting
March 27, 2012
Withdraw Item 11G: Recommendation to award RFP#11-5785 Management of Pelican Bay
Tennis Center and authorize the Chairman to sign a contract with DBA/The Naples Tennis
Academy. (Staffs request due to receipt of written objection to award)
Withdraw Item 14A1: Recommendation to authorize the County Attorney to take all
necessary action,including filing a lawsuit,to evict Three Mayhoods,LLC from its present
location at the Immokalee Regional Airport,and to pursue any holdover rent,damages,and
costs that may be due and owing to the Airport Authority. (Staffs request due to receiving
signed copy of lease agreement)
Move Item 16A18 to Item 11N: Recommendation to approve a Settlement Agreement and
Release with Malcolm Pirnie, Inc., to settle all outstanding claims related to consulting
services provided in connection with project and oversight services on Forest Lakes MSTU
Projects F-53 and F-56,and to authorize payment. (Commissioner Hiller's request)
Move Item 16B1 to Item 14B3: Recommendation that the Collier County Community
Redevelopment Agency review and approve the Bayshore Gateway Triangle and Immokalee
CRA's 2011 Annual Reports,forward the reports to the Board of County Commissioners and
Clerk of Courts and publish public notice of the filing. (Commissioner Hiller's request)
Move Item 16B2 to Item 14B4: Recommendation that the Collier County Community
Redevelopment Agency(CRA) authorize the CRA Director to take appropriate steps to sell
twenty-three (23) CRA owned vacant lots within the Bayshore/Gateway Triangle Mixed Use
District Overlay in accordance with Florida Statute 163.380 and bring back any offers
deemed to meet the terms of the proposal for review and approval. (Commissioner Hiller's
request)
Move Item 16C1 to Item 11L: Recommendation to reject all bids received in response to
Invitation To Bid#11-5624 for Trenchless Sewer System Rehabilitation Services.
(Commissioner Hiller's request)
Move Item 16D8 to Item 11M: Recommendation to approve a substantial amendment to
the Collier County 2011-2012 Department of Housing and Urban Development(HUD)Action
Plan. The amendment will allow Community Development Block Grant(CDBG) funds in the
amount of$775,016 to be re-programmed from Eagle Lakes Park to the Immokalee South
Park. (Commissioner Hiller's request)
Move Item 16G2 to Item 14A2: Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners,
acting as the Collier County Airport Authority,approve the attached Advertisement License
Agreement with Seminole Gaming Management,LLC for advertising at the Immokalee
Regional Airport. (Commissioner Hiller's request)
Proposed Agenda Changes
Board of County Commissioners Meeting
March 27,2012
Page 2
Move Item 16G3 to Item 14A3: Recommendation to approve the submittal of a grant
application to the Federal Aviation Administration in the amount of$725,000,subject to
change based on RFP results,for the design and bid of the restoration of Runway 9-27 at the
Immokalee Regional Airport. (Commissioner Hiller's request)
Move Item 17C to Item 9A: Recommendation to adopt an ordinance amending Ordinance
No. 75-16,as amended,as it relates to procedures for reconsideration of agenda items.
(Commissioner Hiller's request)
Time Certain Items:
Item 11F to be heard at 10:00 a.m.
Item 5A to be heard at 11:00 a.m.
Item 11M to be heard at 11:30 a.m.
Item 11K to be heard at 1:05 p.m.
Item 14B2 to be heard at 1:15 p.m.
Items 14B3 and 14B4 to be heard immediately after Item 14B2
Note:
Item 16D6 Recommendations portion of the Executive Summary should read: The Parks
and Recreation Advisory Board reviewed and approved the proposed fees at its Mar-eh-2;
2.011 March 21.2012 meeting.
Commissioners will be attending lunch with the Know Your County Government Teen
Citizenship Program at the East Naples United Methodist Church from 12:00 to 1:00 p.m.
3/27/2012 8:20 AM
March 27, 2012
Item #2B
MINUTES OF THE FEBRUARY 28, 2012 — BCC/REGULAR
MEETING — APPROVED AS PRESENTED
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Now we have the minutes of the
February 28, 2012, BCC regular meeting. Is there a motion to
approve?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I make a motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Motion to approve by
Commissioner Fiala. Second by?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner Henning.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning.
All in favor, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: The motion passes unanimously.
That brings us to service awards, County Manager.
Item #3A
EMPLOYEE SERVICE AWARDS — PRESENTED
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. If the board would be kind
enough to join us in front of the dais, we have two 25-year service
award recipients here today.
Commissioners, this morning we'd like to recognize Steve
Page 12
March 27, 2012
Epright with your EMS Department for 25 years of service.
Steve?
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Steve, congratulations.
MR. EPRIGHT: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you so much.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thanks for your service.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you very much.
MR. OCHS: Thanks, buddy. Don't forget your picture. In the
middle.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Make sure it's not upside down.
MR. EPRIGHT: Made me look.
MR. OCHS: Congratulations, Steve.
(Applause.)
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, also celebrating 25 years of
service, Tessie Sillery with your Alternative Transportation Modes
Department.
Tessie?
(Applause.)
MS. SILLERY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you so much.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you for your service.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you. Congratulations.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you. Congratulations.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you.
MR. OCHS: Congratulations.
(Applause.)
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, that concludes our service awards
this morning.
Page 13
March 27, 2012
Item #4
PROCLAMATIONS — ONE MOTION TAKEN TO ADOPT ALL
PROCLAMATIONS — ADOPTED
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MARCH 30, 2012 AS
WELCOME HOME VIETNAM VETERANS DAY. ACCEPTED
BY PETRA JONES, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MENTAL
HEALTH ASSOCIATION OF SOUTHWEST FLORIDA —
ADOPTED
MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, that moves us to Item 4 on your
agenda this morning, proclamations. 4A is a proclamation designating
March 30, 2012, as Welcome Home Vietnam Veterans Day. To be
accepted by Petra Jones, Executive Director, Mental Health
Association of Southwest Florida.
This proclamation sponsored by Commissioner Coyle.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you for your service.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good morning. How are you?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you for your service.
MS. JONES: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
MS. JONES: Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
MS. JONES: I would like to thank the Collier County
Commissioners for proclaiming March 30th Welcome Home Vietnam
Veterans Day. I also would like to include all veterans, welcome
home, for serving our country, protecting our freedom, and special
thanks also to Johnny Kirchner from VFW Post 7721, and Sergeant
Page 14
March 27, 2012
Cheffy Ryan for being here to accept the proclamation.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you.
(Applause.)
Item #4B
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MARCH 2012 AS
AMERICAN RED CROSS MONTH IN COLLIER COUNTY.
ACCEPTED BY HEIDI RUSTER, REGIONAL CEO, AMERICAN
RED CROSS SOUTHERN GULF REGION — ADOPTED
MR. OCHS: Item 4B is a proclamation designating March 2012
as American Red Cross Month in Collier County. To be accepted by
Heidi Ruster, Regional COE, American Red Cross Southern Gulf
Region.
This proclamation is sponsored by Commissioner Hiller.
Please come forward.
MS. RUSTER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You do good work.
MR. OCHS: Get your photo.
(Applause.)
MS. RUSTER: Good morning. Thank you so much for this
proclamation. And the Red Cross fully appreciates the partnership
with Collier County and the Board of County Commissioners.
We've been in the county since 1928 and continue to stay strong
with our incredible volunteer force to provide prevention,
preparedness, and response to emergencies, and support our military
members and veterans returning home, along with many others in our
community.
So thank you so much for supporting our cause, and we look
forward to many more years together. Thanks.
Page 15
March 27, 2012
(Applause.)
Item #4C
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MARCH 26TH-30TH AS THE
32ND ANNUAL KNOW YOUR COUNTY GOVERNMENT
WEEK IN COLLIER COUNTY. ACCEPTED BY JOSH
ZVIBLEMAN, BARRON COLLIER HIGH SCHOOL, AND
HUMBERTO MENDEZ-TOMASI, NAPLES HIGH SCHOOL —
ADOPTED
MR. OCHS: Item 4C is a proclamation designating March 26th
through the 30th as the 32nd annual Know Your County Government
Week in Collier County. To be accepted by Josh Zvibleman, Barron
Collier High School, and Humberto Mendez-Tomasi, Naples High
School.
This item is sponsored by the entire Board of County
Commissioners.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You're buying lunch, right?
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good morning, Josh.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thanks for being here today.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Humberto, good to see you.
Who's going to take this? There you go.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Do you think we ought to get
everyone up here?
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am. I was going to say, it's kind of a
tradition. Let's bring the whole class up for a class photo.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That way your teachers really
know where you were this morning. You'll have proof.
MR. OCHS: Okay. Tall people in the back, shorter people in the
Page 16
March 27, 2012
front. You know how it works. You've got to squeeze in, guys. Let's
make another row in front.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: The tall one in the back. We have
plenty of room back here.
MR. OCHS: Very good.
(Applause.)
MR. MENDEZ-TOMASI: Good morning. My name is
Humberto Mendez-Tomasi, and I go to Naples High School.
MR. ZVIBLEMAN: Good morning, Commissioners. My name
is Joshua Zvibleman, and I am currently a senior at Barron Collier,
and I plan to attend University of Central Florida and major in
political science.
We wish to thank the commission, county manager, all
participating county officials, the constitutional officers, and also 4H,
League of Women Voters, and Collier County Public Schools who
have worked together to make the Know Your County Government
Program possible.
MR. MENDEZ-TOMASI: Thirty-four teens from throughout the
county are participating this year representing Palmetto Ridge, Barron
Collier, Naples, Corkscrew Christian Academy, Immokalee, and
Golden Gate High School.
MR. ZVIBLEMAN: Some things we have learned along the way
are the history of the Collier County, and our taxes are being put
towards good use. We learned not to commit any crimes so we don't
end up in our beautiful county jail.
Collier County is a place where you can actually drink from the
tap. We learned that the mountains can be made out of trash in the
landfill; now all we need is some snow.
And last, but certainly not least, we learned that education is the
key to unlock a successful future.
MR. MENDEZ-TOMASI: What impressed me most is how our
county works, from cleaning our drinking water to how the school
Page 17
March 27, 2012
board runs. What impressed me the most is seeing our tax dollars
doing something for us, and now I am proud to be a part of Collier
County.
MR. ZVIBLEMAN: Today we are also looking forward to
seeing the courthouse and learning how the court system truly works.
Of course, what we have all been looking forward to all day is lunch,
not just because we are hungry, but because we get to spend it with
our County Commissioners.
MR. MENDEZ-TOMASI: In addressing the board, we are able
to add another component to our learning process.
Again, thank you for your support.
MR. ZVIBLEMAN: Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: County Manager, when is Snow Fest?
MR. OCHS: Early December. I'm not sure exactly the dates.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Early December.
MR. OCHS: We'll make sure that they all get a notice, because
we do, in fact, have some snow for them.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We do make snow during Snow Fest.
Maybe we should switch the location to the landfill and --
MR. OCHS: Good idea.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- they could do some skiing there.
MR. OCHS: Risk manager would be glad to hear about that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Hiller -- Fiala, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, thank you.
First of all, let me say that it's wonderful to see all of your bright,
happy faces. You guys look like you're all achievers, and you're going
to be successful after you leave this school and go on to the next one,
and I'm pleased to see that. I'm a little saddened, though, that this is
the third year in a row Lely High School is not here, and that's -- I
don't know why they're not here, but that's sad to see that happen.
Thank you.
Page 18
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Josh, I just want to mention one
thing about skiing off the landfill. When I first was elected, I took a
tour of a number one of-- you know, a number of our major projects,
and I actually went to the landfill, and Dr. George, who actually
designed it, took me to the top of it. And he actually was -- when he
was redesigning the entire utilities division, would sit on top of that
landfill meditating on how he would do it.
And I have to tell you something, it's unbelievable. I mean, it
smells like roses. It really -- I mean, not -- if you ever need to
meditate on the future politics of the county, you've got a spot up
there. He'll save it for you. He would sit up there with a lawn chair.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It will prepare you for the smell of
politics. And to top that story, Commissioner Fiala ate lunch on top of
the landfill.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I did. I took a whole group of
people up there and offered them a free lunch. Nobody wanted to
participate.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It's because they had to pick it out of the
garbage.
Okay. We're going to go on to presentations now, right?
MR. OCHS: We have one more proclamation this morning, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Oh, I'm sorry.
Item #4D
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MARCH 2012 AS
CERTIFIED GOVERNMENT FINANCIAL MANAGERS MONTH
IN COLLIER COUNTY. ACCEPTED BY CHRIS TARANTINO
AND OFFICERS OF THE NAPLES PARADISE CHAPTER OF
THE ASSOCIATION OF GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTANTS —
ADOPTED
Page 19
March 27, 2012
MR. OCHS: That's Item 4D. It's a proclamation designating
March 2012 as Certified Government Financial Managers Month in
Collier County. To be accepted by Chris Tarantino and officers of the
Naples Paradise Chapter of the Association of Government
Accountants.
And this item was sponsored by the entire Board of County
Commissioners.
Please come forward and receive your award.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Who is going to get it?
MS. KINZEL: Chris. He's our historian.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Come on over, Chris.
MS. KINZEL: He was a national past president for the
organization and lives here in Collier.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good. Congratulations.
MR. TARANTINO: Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
MS. GAYLORD: My name is Megan Gaylord. I'm the secretary
of the local chapter.
We'd like to thank the Board of County Commissioners for their
recognition of our newly established Association of Government
Accountants chapter.
This month is recognition for certified government financial
managers, which is similar to the CPA for the private sector.
We're promoting all government affiliated individuals, including
nonprofit businesses, regular businesses, CPAs, accountants, internal
auditors, and external auditors the opportunity to join our chapter.
We're looking to focus on making positive working relationships and
develop professionally within our connections within the county.
We are focusing to bring CPE opportunities to our area for
reasonable fees and, on an every-other-month basis, to have four
Page 20
March 27, 2012
speakers per year.
Again, we'd like to thank you for the opportunity to promote our
small, growing local chapter and for the recognition of the certified
government managers.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, Item 5 is a time-certain hearing at
11 a.m., so we'll proceed --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, Steve is here, though, if you
want him to speak now.
MR. OCHS: Well, we've got it listed in the agenda, ma'am, as a
time-certain.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, okay.
MR. OCHS: So we'll have to wait till then.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm so sorry.
MR. OCHS: That takes us to Item 10 on your agenda, Board of
County Commissioners. Item 10A is appointment of member to the
Development Services Advisory Committee.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve the
proclamations as stated.
MR. OCHS: Thank you, Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: This time it was the county manager
who forgot rather than me.
MR. OCHS: Yep.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Motion by Commissioner Henning to
accept the proclamations; seconded by Commissioner Coletta, was it?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All in favor, please signify by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: (No verbal response.)
Page 21
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: The proclamations are approved
unanimously.
MR. OCHS: Thank you, Commissioners.
Item #1 OA
RESOLUTION 2012-54: APPOINTING CHRISTOPHER R.
MITCHELL (SERVING THE REMAINDER OF A TERM
EXPIRING DECEMBER 14, 2013) TO THE DEVELOPMENT
SERVICES ADVISORY COMMITTEE — ADOPTED
MR. OCHS: Again, Item 10A is appointment of member to the
Development Services Advisory Committee.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to appoint Christopher
Mitchell.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Motion by Commissioner Henning to
appoint the committee recommendations, Christopher R. Mitchell,
seconded by Commissioner Fiala.
All in favor, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: (No verbal response.)
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
Page 22
March 27, 2012
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: The motion carries unanimously.
Item #10B
RESOLUTION 2012-55: APPOINTING MAURICE GUTIERREZ,
JOHN G. BUCK AND VICTORIA NICKLOS TO THE
BAYSHORE BEAUTIFICATION MSTU ADVISORY
COMMITTEE — ADOPTED
MR. OCHS: 10B, sir, is appointment of members to the
Bayshore Beautification MSTU Advisory Committee.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Motion to approve all three
committee recommendations and those are the three that sent their
resumes in.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah. We had three applications for
three vacancies. The committee recommends Maurice Gutierrez, John
Buck, and Victoria Nichlos.
Motion by Commissioner Fiala to approve the committee's
recommendations, seconded by?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Coletta.
All in favor, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: (No verbal response.)
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: The motion passes unanimously.
Page 23
March 27, 2012
Item #10C
RESOLUTION 2012-56: REAPPOINTING JEREMY STERK
(ENVIRONMENTAL, ECOLOGY AND CONSERVATION
CATEGORY) AND TODD ALLEN (AGRICULTURE AND
BUSINESS AND LAND APPRAISAL CATEGORY) TO THE
CONSERVATION COLLIER LAND ACQUISITION ADVISORY
COMMITTEE — ADOPTED
MR. OCHS: 10C is appointment of members to the
Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Advisory Committee.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to go with the
committee's recommendation of Todd Allen and Jeremy Sterk.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Motion by Commissioner Coletta
to approve the committee's recommendations for Todd Allen and
Jeremy Sterk, seconded by Commissioner Fiala.
All in favor, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: (No verbal response.)
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It passes unanimously.
Item #10D
ADVISORY BOARD VACANCIES PRESS RELEASE MARCH 9,
2012, WITH A DEADLINE FOR ACCEPTANCE OF MARCH 29,
2012 - READ INTO THE RECORD
Page 24
March 27, 2012
MR. OCHS: Item 10D is the advisory board vacancies press
release, March 9, 2012, with a deadline for acceptance of March 29,
2012.
MR. MITCHELL: Sir, Commissioner, the vacancies on the
boards: The Affordable Housing Advisory Committee currently has
one vacancy for a member as an alternate. The other item on that is
that this person needs to reside in Immokalee; the Animal Service
Advisory Board has two vacancies; the Development Services
Advisory Committee has one vacancy for a term that will expire
December 14th; the Forest Lakes Roadway and Drainage Advisory
Committee has one vacancy; the Golden Gate Estates Land Trust
Committee has one vacancy; the Hispanic Affairs Advisory
Committee has one vacancy; the Ochopee Fire Control District
Advisory Committee has one vacancy; and the Parks and Recreation
Advisory Board has two vacancies; and the Tourist Development
Council has two vacancies.
That is what applies at this moment in time.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MR. MITCHELL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you.
Item #7
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS
MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, I have another apology to make. I
skipped over Item 7 on your agenda. Old habits are hard to break, I'm
afraid. Public comments on general topics is now heard at Item 7.
MR. MITCHELL: Sir, we've got one registered speaker on that,
Mr. Lundin.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Lundin's been skipped over
Page 25
March 27, 2012
more than once.
MR. MITCHELL: Sir, Mr. Lundin will get three minutes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It's beginning to be a pattern.
MR. MITCHELL: Three minutes.
MR. LUNDIN: Hi, I'm John Lundin.
I'd like to speak about a proposal to build the incinerator plant in
Immokalee by the Growth Design Corporation. Recently they've done
presentations for the Immokalee CRA and the Immokalee Chamber.
I'd like to talk specifically about Commissioner Coletta.
Commissioner Coletta, there might be a potential financial conflict of
interest for you. I'd like to go through the timeline. We've researched
this company.
Three years ago Growth Design Corporation started pursuing the
Immokalee incinerator project. They communicated with the
Immokalee CRA.
Two years ago, Commissioner Coletta's son (sic), Dino, Dean
Daniels, incorporated the company called American Made Renewable
Fuels, LLC, 3616. This company is listed at 3054 Adcock Drive in
LaBelle. And we checked, as far as we know it's a residence; no one
lives there. And I think the property's owned by you, Commissioner
Coletta. We're not quite sure about that.
Also -- Commissioner Coletta, we've also found out that you and
your son-in-law, you have had prior private business partnerships
apart from this. Specifically, I think you ran a fish and bait tackle
business.
Two years ago, American Made Renewable Fuels applied for a
federal biofuel crop grant. We know this, Commissioner Coletta,
because you've admitted it to the Naples Daily News.
You also have said that the application was not for this project in
Immokalee with Growth Design Corporation and that the application
has been denied.
Last year, Growth Design Corporation, they stated in the
Page 26
March 27, 2012
Immokalee Bulletin the other day that they had met with
Commissioner Coletta and Dino at the Immokalee airport, but it was
just a friendly meeting; it had no business arrangement.
And last year, also, your son-in-law, he tried to rent two hangars
at the Immokalee airport for his business, American Made Renewable
Fuels, but supposedly it was turned down.
So we kind of wonder, why was he trying to open up a business
at the Immokalee airport for this biofuel if he nothing to do with this
project?
Also, Commissioner Coletta, last year you spoke at the Golden
Gate Estates Homeowners Association in favor of this project. You
were kind of raving how it's going to bring jobs to Immokalee.
And then, just last week in the Immokalee Bulletin, a spokesman
for the Design Corporation said, this incinerator plant will be a
private/public partnership with Collier County. So I have two
questions. How much taxpayer money do you think this is going to
cost the county if this project goes through?
And, also, Commissioner Coletta, with all these questions about
this grant, I think it would be incumbent on you to get this grant
application from your son-in-law and release it to the public, because
you've publicly spoken about this to the media.
So it would clear up all this problem, and then you'd be clear and
free; otherwise, people are going to think you're hiding something.
So thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: May I respond, sir?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, wait first.
Mr. Lundin didn't inform us that he is a candidate for --
MR. LUNDIN: I'm speaking as a private citizen today.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah, but you are registered as a
candidate for the County Commission.
MR. LUNDIN: But I'm speaking as a private citizen.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- running for Commissioner --
Page 27
March 27, 2012
MR. LUNDIN: But I'm speaking as a private citizen.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- Coletta's seat.
MR. LUNDIN: But I'm speaking as a private citizen.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Remember what I said about the smell of
politics?
MR. LUNDIN: You understand that very well yourself, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Now you get some idea.
Okay. Now, go ahead, Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you, sir. I wouldn't even
know where to begin. I mean, Mr. Lundin, you've got your facts all
wrong. You're completely wrong. At some point in time when you do
the right research and you find that you're wrong, I would assume that
you'll come before this body and offer me a personal apology.
MR. LUNDIN: Well, all --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, sir. I've got the floor at the
moment, please.
MR. LUNDIN: I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I appreciate that.
First place, my son-in-law's consulting business has been in
Texas and Ohio. He lives in LaBelle, Florida. Now, the address that
you're talking about -- I own no property in LaBelle. I don't. I did at
one time. It was a spec house that we bought some time ago, but that's
been sold for some time now, almost a year. So we own no property.
As far as my son-in-law and this company having something
going together, that is absolutely incorrect. They don't. It's not a
smoke-stack industry. When you were there at the Chamber of
Commerce presentation, and we were sitting at the same table -- and
they had flashed up on the picture the presentation for the company to
be able to show you what it was about, they put up a factory with a
smoke stack. You immediately over reacted, and I asked you to calm
down and wait until the end of the presentation and ask questions.
At that point in time, the presenter said, no, the smoke stack that
Page 28
March 27, 2012
we see up on the screen is an example of what we're not.
I am pro jobs. I go out there and I try to do it. I do this all the
time. In fact, on my Saturdays quite often I'll take these counties --
these different companies on tours hoping that something will come of
it, some positive things for jobs. That's the only thing that's involved
in here.
My son has no -- my son-in-law has no relationship with this
company. You're fabricating information, and you're trying to pull
bits and pieces together that have no relation, and even those bits and
pieces you're pulling together are fabricated.
Sir, all I can say to you is do your homework and do your
research, then come on back if you've got something. But there's
nothing there. The only thing you're doing right now, you're trying to
demean me and my family.
And as far as the hangars in Immokalee, my son-in-law had two
planes at the time. He got one hangar and he was looking for another
one to put the plane under. If he had put it underneath his business
name, it was probably for a tax advantage. I have no idea. I'm not
involved in my son-in-law's business. And it goes on and on and on. I
could explain this to you for hours on end.
Sir, you're manufacturing stuff. You're so far off base on this one
that it's close to libel. That's all I can tell you.
MR. LUNDIN: You can clear it up by getting the grant
application that was denied that you said that was denied -- and it's not
for this project -- and you could release it to the public, and that would
clear everything up.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The grant application is my
son-in-law's business. It was for Texas. And as far as I know -- I don't
know if it was denied, if it was approved, or what. I'm not in my
son-in-law's business. I'm not even going to inquire what it was. But
I'm sure if you did research on grants at the federal level, you'd be able
to find out what it's about. But there's been no grants for Florida. This
Page 29
March 27, 2012
is what my son-in-law told me. I've got every reason to believe him
on that.
I am not a party of his business. And that meeting that took place
was at my request, because I was dealing with a technical element that
I never dealt before with having to do with biofuel, energy.
My son-in-law is pretty well versed in it, so he spent about half
an hour to 45 minutes just conversing with him and then later reported
back to me that these people were on the up and up as far as their
knowledge level went in their basic business plan. That's the
beginning and end of it.
And what you're doing, sir, is you're discouraging this company
and other companies from even attempting to come to Florida. They
have five areas they're looking at for consideration to bring these jobs
to Florida, to our county, to be able to employ people in the
Immokalee area.
Now, whether we're still going to be up for consideration after
this slanderous information that's been released is anybody's guess.
And, sir, if we aren't in the running for this company, you can
take full credit --
MR. LUNDIN: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- for doing (sic) the jobs that
could have come to Collier County.
MR. LUNDIN: I will, thank you. Can I respond? When they
did their presentation at the Immokalee chamber, they had a
PowerPoint slide that listed the four different technologies that they
were possibly going to use. All four of those technologies release
emissions into the atmosphere and pollute the air. That is a fact. We
have researched that, and we will have documentation for that if they
ever proceed with this.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm sure you will, sir, and that
time will come.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you very much. Okay.
Page 30
March 27, 2012
MR. LUNDIN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Let's move on to the next item.
MR. MITCHELL: Sir, Commissioner, someone else has just
registered to speak. It's your discretion as to whether we call them or
not.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: As long as it's not Mr. Lundin again.
MR. MITCHELL: It's Bob Krasowski.
MR. KRASOWSKI: It's worse.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It's worse. No, Bob, it's not worse. It's
not worse.
MR. KRASOWSKI: Very interesting, huh?
Hello, Commissioners. For the record, my name's Bob
Krasowski.
I'm interested in this project. And I think Mr. Lundin makes
some good points, but I hate to see this -- the issue of this project get
lost in the minutiae of the side issue of Mr. Coletta's inappropriate
involvement, if there is such a thing, which I don't think so from what
you said.
But -- because, I mean, your son-in-law can go out and get all the
grants he wants to grow whatever he wants, and it can feed into this
project without violating anybody's anything.
But I appreciate Mr. Lundin's spirit and interest. And as you
know, you have to train many of us to act appropriately at these
meetings and to achieve our goals.
Now, we've done this two times before. And I know
Commissioner Henning and Commissioner Coletta are well familiar
with solid waste management techniques. In 1982 or '3 we were here
when Westinghouse was proposing a project with Charman
Engineering. And at first blush, it looked kind of good, but it was a
big incinerator to be placed at the landfill, and it didn't work. I only
have three minutes here, so I can't go into details. Maybe at a later
date.
Page 31
March 27, 2012
Then in 2000 after the rest of you came onboard, except for
Commissioner Hiller, you revisited the whole waste management
system. And there were many proposals there, so -- and none of them
bear fruit. And it was quite a -- kind of somewhat -- and sometimes
nasty battle of the truths and not truths being provided to the
commissioners and misinforming them by consultants and other
people who promoted the plan.
So, in regard to this one, we really have to proceed. And if
there's actually a consideration to put something out there, I'm all in
favor, from what I first see, for anaerobic digestion. There's many of
them throughout the state. Now, pyrolysis plants and bringing other
waste to Immokalee to -- pyrolysis has emissions, and I'll have to
check the specific type of plant.
But we don't have to add more pollution to the existing pollution
in Immokalee, the agricultural byproduct stuff. So we really have to
move along and be calm and everybody have their say, because
different people have -- are contributing properly to this.
And I might suggest that someday we -- in the future you might
consider a request for proposals for specifically only anaerobic
digestion so we can get a little competition going here. And I did
notice in reviewing these people's websites they're a bunch of
consultants. They don't have engineers, as far as I could see, in
reading all the characteristics of the individuals that are on the staff.
So they're -- and from the Midwest and wonderful people. But
we just have to get into this a little deeper, a little more detailed. And
now that George, Mr. Yilmaz, will be the head of the utilities
department, it just will complicate things even further, but --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You need to wrap it up, Bob. But that is
a very balanced presentation, very reasonable, and I thank you very
much.
The only clarification I'd like to make is this is not a project. We
are nowhere near considering anything. We haven't been presented
Page 32
March 27, 2012
with any business plan. Someone contacted us about an idea, and it
really hasn't gone much beyond that.
And as it -- if it begins to materialize, there will be multiple
public hearings about -- in any decision that the board will make
concerning this.
MR. KRASOWSKI: Thank you. And thank Mr. Lundin for
what he did positively to bring this up, you know. But I know -- and
Commissioner Coletta, nice to see you. You know, thanks.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you, Bob.
(Applause.)
MR. MITCHELL: Sir, that was your last speaker.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, good.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'd like to comment.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. Bob, thank you very much
for your comments. You know, your concern about the environmental
impacts of an incinerator are well founded. In fact, very recently in
Boston, I think it was last year -- and I'm not sure where they are in
the investigation -- the Attorney General began investigating a waste
incinerator that was burning trash, and the consequence was hazardous
chemicals going into both the air and the water.
So we do have to be very, very sensitive to these type of
operations with respect to the environmental impact and the impact on
the residents in the community surrounding any sort of incinerator
project. So your points are well made.
With respect to the particular project that is being discussed --
and I don't know if there aren't multiple incinerator projects being
discussed, but the one that has been brought to my attention would
involve basically processing biological waste, you know, like
agricultural waste, of which there isn't a whole lot here.
Secondly, they're proposing an ancillary business, which is
organic tomatoes, because they believe that, you know, whatever
Page 33
March 27, 2012
waste they would produce would end up creating a byproduct for them
by way of a fertilizer that could be used for organic tomatoes. I'm not
really sure what the nexus is between an incinerator and an organic
tomato farm and, quite frankly, they need to be bifurcated as two
separate projects because one is clearly, you know, waste
management, the other is ag.
There are a lot of questions out there. So I would appreciate your
involvement, and if you would stay in touch with my office as this
project moves forward, if it does, I would appreciate your review and
input.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. And, once again, like
you say, Commissioner Hiller, this is something that's on the drawing
for some future consideration.
I can tell you, there's one, possibly two other companies that
offer the same technology, that would like to come here. And it's not
just pyrolysis; it also involves such things as the digesters that you
heard mentioned and also microwave of plastic, such as the black
plastic they use in farming, to return it back to oil, which doesn't
require anything as far as smoke stacks go or anything of that nature.
But the whole thing is that let's keep an open mind until that
point in time that we can have somebody come forward and make a
presentation based upon the actual facts that we have to consider. The
whole object for this is to be able to create jobs in Collier County in a
nonintrusive way. I assure you the Collier County Commission would
not tolerate anything as far as smoke-stack industry that would pollute
the environment.
But, once again, if they're interested and they come forward with
a proposal, there will be other companies, too, that will be possibly
coming forward, and we'll be able to weigh all the facts that are before
us.
But we need to stop this ridiculous connection to the campaign
Page 34
March 27, 2012
that's coming up or is going forward now towards the August 14th
primary and remove these crazy accusations that are being made. It
has no place in this world, and it only is a deterrent for not only the
business of this commission but for the well-being of the economic
economy of Collier County. We're supposed to be a business-friendly
place where we keep all our minds open as we look at the possibilities
that exist.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I ask a quick question?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you.
Commissioner Coletta, you mentioned other companies. Are you
aware of other companies that are -- have you been talking to other
companies that are in the incinerator --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, and I --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- or waste management
companies or waste --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, they're not waste
management. They're --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- I should say waste re -- not
waste management, waste regeneration, whatever you want to call
them?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I've been talking to many, many
different companies on many different products and taking time to
take them on tours of the area, introduce them to people from the
Chamber of the Commerce and our county manager.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But I mean --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I've had several of them that I
have taken down to our waste management -- our facility down at the
landfill so they could take a tour of it, and George Yilmaz went
through what the possibilities were for them.
My idea, as myself, is a person -- I'm a catalyst to try to bring
Page 35
March 27, 2012
people forward. At that point in time when they get to a point that
they've got things going forward, I turn them over to whatever entities
exist. And we no longer have the EDC, so now it's the Chamber of
Commerce, the County Manager's Office. In Immokalee it's the CRA
at that place -- point.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I just really -- what I'm more
interested in -- and thank you for, you know --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- describing what you're doing --
is what other waste recycle, waste processing companies have you
been speaking with? I mean, are there other companies out there
interested, and who are they?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I'll tell you what. You
can get that from George Yilmaz. I'll be honest with you, after I made
the initial contact, I turned them over to George, and he was in
correspondence with them to see what might be able to possibly come
forward from it.
And if you make that inquiry to him or if you ask for my
calendar, it will probably be on that. I really can't remember the
names.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So this is another -- so this is
another company besides the company that has --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- most recently approached us.
George, can you get me that information? I'd like to know what
other companies are looking to consider doing this. Because if there
are a number of companies, I'd like to see the whole slate.
And, Bob, I'd like your help with all of them, if that's okay with
you, if you'd volunteer. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, County Manager.
Item #1 1 B
Page 36
March 27, 2012
THE PURCHASE OF PROPERTY INSURANCE EFFECTIVE
APRIL 1, 2012 IN THE ESTIMATED AMOUNT OF $3,560,000 —
APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, we have a 10 a.m. time-certain, so
perhaps we could take 11B on your agenda before that. It's a
recommendation to approve the purchase of property insurance
effective April 1, 2012, in the estimated amount of$3,560,000.
And Mr. Walker, your Risk Manager Director, will be present.
MR. WALKER: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners.
Jeff Walker, Risk Manager Director, for the record.
I'm here before you today to request the approval to purchase
property insurance effective April 1, 2012. There's been quite a
change in the property insurance market in the last year, and I want to
talk a little bit about that this morning so that you can have an
informed decision.
Our property insurance program renews April 1, 2012. Our
insured values are $844 million. The current program has a named
storm wind deductible of-- with a $5 million deductible cap, meaning
that in the event of a hurricane loss, the most that the county would
pay out-of-pocket is $5 million.
That's rather unusual in the property insurance market nowadays.
Deductible caps are hard to find; they're hard to get. But in light of
the budget, where we stand in terms of reserve positions and things of
that nature, we feel that's an important item to have within the
program so that in the event of a named storm, we have a cap.
Other name perils are $50,000 -- have a $50,000 deductible.
We also have flood coverage in excess of the NFIP flood limits.
As, you know, the National Flood Insurance Program writes primary
flood on most of our buildings, and we have a $75 million limit above
that.
Page 37
March 27, 2012
One of the things that's very important with regard to the
program is that we have to be in compliance with the Stafford Act.
And what I mean by that is that the Stafford Act requires that we
purchase property insurance if it's readily available in the marketplace
and that purchase be approved by the Department of Insurance of the
State of Florida in order for us to apply for and receive reimbursement
of out-of-pocket deductibles and so forth should an event, declared
event, come about.
So it's important that our program comply with that, and we do
go through a process of having that program approved by the
Department of Insurance annually.
One of the other things that we do is we have what's called a
PML study, a Probable Maximum Loss study completed every year.
That's done by a company called Risk Management Solutions out of
California. Essentially, what they do is they take your property
schedule and they run it through a wind-modeling software program,
and they determine, based upon a 100-year event, 250-year event, that
sort of thing, what your probable maximum loss would be in that
instance.
One of the things that's happened this year, and it's one of the
issues that's really driving the cost of property insurance, is that Risk
Management Solutions came out with a new software program called
RMS 11 which drastically increased those limits of PML.
For example, in a 100-year event, in a period of one year, they
went from about 40 million to about 95 million in our case. The
problem with this is, that Best, who does the rating of insurance
companies, has adopted RMS 11, and they're rating insurance
companies on the basis of this wind model. And it's -- essentially, in
order for insurance companies to get the rating, the A or A+ or A-
rating that they seek to get, they are asking for more premium in light
of those RMS models. Essentially, what's happening is that's getting
passed down to the consumer, and that's what's driving a lot of our rate
Page 38
March 27, 2012
increase this year.
We also asked our real property department to look at our values.
We do that on an annual basis. They go through and look at our
schedule and determine, are we insuring at the proper amount, are we
over insuring, underinsuring. We have actually decreased those over
the years to some degree. Right now what real property is telling us is
that we should hold those values level, and so that is what we're
recommending as part of this.
Our broker, Insurance and Risk Management Services, went to
36 carriers with the program. We had a number of those who did
respond. We had a number who didn't. The ones who didn't had
various reasons they didn't want to underwrite the policy form that we
had. Some of them weren't interested in the market and so forth.
So where we are with this --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Second.
I have a motion to approve by Commissioner Henning, seconded
by Commissioner Coyle.
All in favor, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. It passes unanimously.
MR. WALKER: Thank you.
Item #11 F
Page 39
March 27, 2012
RECOMMENDATION TO DENY PETITION BY THE QUINCY
SQUARE HOME OWNERS ASSOCIATION FOR FINANCIAL
RELIEF FROM THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER-SEWER
DISTRICT IN THE FORM OF A FUTURE CREDIT FOR FUNDS
ALREADY PAID TO THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER-SEWER
DISTRICT FOR WATER BILLS - MOTION TO CONTINUE TO A
FUTURE BOARD MEETING — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, that takes you to your 10 a.m.
time-certain hearing this morning. It is Item 11F on your agenda. It's
a recommendation to deny the petition by the Quincy Square
Homeowners Association for financial relief from the Collier County
Water/Sewer District in the form of a future credit for funds already
paid to the Collier County Water/Sewer District for water bills.
And Mr. Wides will begin the staff presentation.
MR. WIDES: Commissioners, good morning. Tom Wides, for
the record, Public Utilities Operations Support Director.
The topic before us today, as the county manager has noted, is
the Quincy Square request for reimbursement of utility bills paid.
And I'd like to give you a brief discussion this morning of the facts as
we know them.
First off, Quincy Square is in the area on Davis Boulevard and
approximately the Madison Park Boulevard. And as you can see the
picture on the board here, it was planned for 24 buildings. They're
four-plex buildings. The first permits were pulled in 2005 by the
developer, Centex.
At that time, as today, the minimum meter size for these types of
units, this type of infrastructure is calculated to be 1.5-inch meters.
The developer, Centex, requested 2-inch meters to be installed on the
24 permits that were originally estimated or, excuse me, originally
given out.
As allowed by existing business practices, a developer, an
Page 40
March 27, 2012
engineer of record, or the representative of the owner may request a
larger meter size to meet both peak flow and continuous load demand.
If we could, for a moment, let's think about the infrastructure. It's
put in place for a new development. In this case an eight-inch water
main was installed by the developer; two-inch service lines were run
from the main to the county right-of-way to the meter box.
Subsequently, private installation comes in. We will -- we will
set the meter at the county right-of-way, and then the developer will
come to our service connections at the right-of-way.
So what I'm trying to say here is the eight-inch water main was
installed by the developer, the two-inch service lines coming off the
water main to the right-of-way were installed by the developer, the
two-inch meters were set as requested by the developer, then the
developer brought the service lines from the buildings to the meter.
And, yes, in some cases a one-and-a-half inch meter or service
lines. We also have situations that we've documented that there are
two-inch service lines coming from the buildings.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: How many?
MR. WIDES: We tested four; three of them were one-and-a-half
inch service lines; one of them was a two-inch service line. We did
not test all the others. So basically 25 percent based on what we
know.
Subsequently, after a series of meetings with the homeowners
association folks in October, more November and December, we came
to an agreement, both parties, that there were certain stipulations that
needed to be put in place. Those were agreed to. And, in fact, in
January of this year, of 2012, the utility changed out the two-inch
meters and put in one-and-a-half-inch meters based on the stipulated
agreements.
Staff recommendation: Quincy Square representatives have
made a demand for an estimated $149,000 for the billing differences
between the two-inch and the one-and-a-half-inch meters. Again, the
Page 41
March 27, 2012
two-inch meters were installed at the request of the developer;
therefore, it is staffs recommendation that we deny refund or relief of
the approximate 149,000 or any portion thereof.
At this point, Commissioners, I'm ready to entertain your
questions. We also have representatives here from our engineering
and our operating departments.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Do we have public speakers?
How many?
MR. MITCHELL: Sir, we have two public speakers.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And who are they?
MR. MITCHELL: Mr. Samouce and Mr. Etelamaki.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioners, you want to ask
your questions first? Commissioner Henning, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you for the extra backup
material. Tell me back then how you calculated impact fees for
multi-family, commercial.
MR. WIDES: Yes, sir. Commissioner, in that time period, 2005,
the impact fees were calculated based on the unit sizes. So if the units
-- and I believe these were 1,500-square-foot units. There's four within
each building. So they were -- the impact fees were calculated at that
point in time on the unit size.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: When did you start calculating
by ERCs?
MR. WIDES: Commissioner, I don't remember exactly when
that is. Let me check.
Commissioner, the unit size was in place in 2005. The ERC
values were in place in a prior period.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes. That's what we're -- how
we're basing it on now, is ERCs. We're basing the impact fees on
ERCs today.
MR. WIDES: We are today.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But we don't know when that
Page 42
March 27, 2012
was implemented?
MR. WIDES: I can check that, Commissioner, but I don't have it
at the top of my head here.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, that's fine. I don't need
that information because it doesn't do me any good if you don't have it
now. And I understand it's hard to go back in history and pull out
dates.
Now, your recommendations are based upon -- because the
availability of the capacity, the water capacity. I mean, the plant
capacity is -- you're going to have more capacity -- have to reserve
more capacity for a two-inch meter versus an inch-and-a-half meter.
MR. WIDES: And, Commissioner, that is correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MR. WIDES: But it is not just plant capacity. It's literally the
entire infrastructure capacity that we're making sure we're reserving
for the availability.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. So the capacity of the
eight-inch line that was installed by the developer is not a part of the
reserve capacity that you're talking about? No.
MR. WIDES: The developer would install that and then turn that
over to, you know, our services.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are you charging for that
capacity when they request a bigger meter? Where is the capacity that
you reserve for a particular meter?
MR. WIDES: Okay. Commissioner, the capacity would start, as
you noted, at the wells, at the plants, the major transmission mains
throughout the communities, okay. And, literally, once the
infrastructure is conveyed to us, we take ownership of that
infrastructure right up to the meter.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MR. WIDES: So we're reserving capacity all the way through
the system at that point in time.
Page 43
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I see. And the availability of
the capacity through different meter sizes would be -- you know, it's
not that you use that capacity, but it's available to you, correct?
MR. WIDES: Yes. Commissioner, as a great example, here in
Florida you have the influx during the wintertime, and when -- people
on the second floor or third floor or whatever of condo units or
individual family homes, they expect, when they are here, that water
will be running and available to them under adequate pressure. So we
maintain, throughout the year, the infrastructure to make sure that's the
case.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And the water capacity you're
reserving. So if that's the case -- and you said that the outlet from the
meter you have some -- there's lines that are two inches and there's
lines that are one-and-a-half inches.
Can you get more capacity -- the user could get more capacity
out of-- or the same capacity out of a one-and-a-half outlet as a
two-inch?
MR. WIDES: Commissioner, I'm going to ask Tom Chmelik,
our engineering director, to talk to you a little bit about that, because I
think he can describe to you exactly the situation between the two
meter sizes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, not the meter size. I'm not
asking about the meter size. I'm asking about the output pipe. And
my question is, you have two different output types after the meter,
you have inch and a half, and then you have two inches.
MR. WIDES: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can you get the same capacity
out of those pipes, capacity of waters, gallons per minute or gallons
per hour; can you get the same capacity?
MR. WIDES: Commissioner, I will ask Mr. Chmelik to answer
your question.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
Page 44
March 27, 2012
MR. WIDES: I believe we have an answer for that.
MR. CHMELIK: Commissioners, Tom Chmelik, for the record.
To answer your question, the pipe itself-- the pipe size will represent
a greater restriction on the inch-and-a-half versus the two-inch, so you
won't get the same flow. It will be somewhat diminished. I can't tell
you how much that would be, but just back to the meters, to put it in
perspective, the portion that we have control of up to the meter, a
two-inch meter will allow a maximum of 160 gallons per minute; the
inch-and-a-half meter is 100 gallons per minute.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. With that answer,
knowing that we provide service -- because we're in a monopoly;
there's no other user that we can go to -- how can we charge -- this is
my statement. It's not -- I'm not asking for -- a question. My
statement is how can we charge somebody a fee that they can't really
reap the benefit for? Anyways, that was a statement.
MR. CHMELIK: I -- okay.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I was going to ask if you had
the paperwork on the developer asking for that size pipe, the two-inch
rather than the one-and-a-half-inch. Do you have that paperwork?
And -- but Commissioner Henning made such good points, I think my
question is just moot, really.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I mean, if we had a choice, if
the public had a choice to go to a different company like you do in the
free market, then there would be no need for regulations or
government oversight, and that's where we come in. We're the
government and oversight of the charges.
But, quite frankly, when we charge somebody a fee and the fee is
for service -- and that fee is unjust because you can't get what that fee
represents versus a two-inch meter and one-and-a-half-inch meter,
then we need to do some adjustments to the service.
MR. OCHS: Commissioner?
Page 45
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: County Manager, go ahead.
MR. OCHS: May the staff respond and try to explain --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Sure.
MR. OCHS: -- the benefit to the customer of a two-inch meter
versus an inch-and-a-half meter?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Coletta has his light on
now; do you want to wait for after the staff responds?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That was my question.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If they want to go ahead and
answer that now, the benefits from one to the other. And, also, the
agreement was that -- a contract that was actually signed for it and the
cost that was incurred to run the lines to the development, there must
have been a difference in the size of the line. And the benefits, I
assume, that had something to do with water pressure and the volume
of water you can get, and are they expecting more users to come
online to be able to use this also in the future?
MR. CHMELIK: Right. Commissioner Coletta, could I first go
back to Commissioner Henning's statement, and I'd like a chance to
clarify the point I attempted to make earlier.
Again, a two-inch meter will allow you to get 160 gallons per
minute. An-inch-and-a-half meter allows you to get 100 gallons per
minute. So that increase -- that difference between the two is the
added benefit that you're getting for the larger meter.
Now, the pipe size beyond that we don't have control of. You
had asked some questions about that. Smaller pipes will have greater
restriction, and much of that's governed by the Florida Plumbing Code
in order to have safe, reliable services.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That wasn't an answer, because
the question was, are you going to get any more capacity out of
inch-and-a-half pipe, p-i-p-e, pipe, versus a two-inch pipe. That was
the question, not the meter. Just so we have a clarification of what my
Page 46
March 27, 2012
question was.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: From the standpoint of the resident in the
building, you turn on a faucet, are you going to get the same flow rate,
capacity, out of that faucet with a one-and-a-half-inch pipe connecting
you to a two-inch meter as you would get if you had a two-inch pipe
connecting you to the two-inch meter?
MR. CHMELIK: No, it won't be the same, but it -- using that
one-and-a-half-inch pipe will not take you down to the 100 gallon per
minute range of an one-and-a-half-inch meter. There'll be some
pressure drop that's introduced. There'll be some diminished flow, but
not near that order of magnitude.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Do we know what that is, what
percentage of pressure drop is likely? I mean, there are formulas to
calculate this information.
MR. CHMELIK: We would have to look at a particular
installation to tell the exact flow differences. But if you look at this
chart, it shows that at 100 gallons per minute, for example, there is
twice the amount of pressure drop in an inch-and-a-half meter service
as compared to a two. We could certainly calculate and model that.
We don't have that information today.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Let me ask you something.
When you turn on a spicket for a garden hose, okay, and you restrict
the flow, do you think that the outgoing is more pressure on or less
pressure?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It's less pressure.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The outgoing is less pressure?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah. It's just like if you took a
two-inch garden hose and you screwed it into a three-quarter-inch
garden hose, you're going to be able to get less water through that at
the end of it than you would have if you had had a two-inch garden
hose all the way.
Page 47
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HENNING: All the way, yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But there is a pressure
differential between when you restrict.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yes, yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It shoots out further.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So you get more pressure with a
smaller size, don't you?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You get pressure, but you don't get as
much water flowing through it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You don't get as much water.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That's right.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that's my point is we're
reserving capacity.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That we're not using.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That is not -- that can't be used.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's my point.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yep. And that's true, I agree with you.
But go ahead.
MR. CHMELIK: Excuse me. I'd like to defer to Dr. Yilmaz,
please.
MR. YILMAZ: Commissioners, for the record, George Yilmaz,
Interim Public Utilities Administrator.
Great questions, and they are linked to each other. In any water
distribution systems among others you have primary variables that
you focused on; one is pressure, one is velocity, and the other one is
scour velocity which deals with in-house water quality.
Now, as far as the pressure goes, we will typically deal with 60
PSI for a typical home, even though at our service pump stations we're
status stay at 90 PSI. That -- as the chart you see on your screen, I
Page 48
March 27, 2012
would very much appreciate your attention to 60 PSI, and you will see
that one-and-a-half-inch versus two-inch meter pressure drop.
Pressure drop on two-inch meter versus one-and-a-half-inch meter,
close to twice as much.
Just to give you a sense of what PSI means. If you have 4 PSI
from ground up, you would be able to actually move water to 10 feet
high.
So going back to two variables at work and their different
equations, including fluid dynamics and mechanics and Bernoulli
equation, that the inhibitor, as far as the system goes, the meter size
itself, it's almost like your fuse box. You've got service coming in, and
you have a 20-amp fuse box, and then you change it to 15. No mater
what you do, it will trip at 15 because it is the bottleneck.
So meter as-if-- hypothetically, meter as-if works like a fuse
box. So in this case, one-and-a-half-- think about 15-inch being 15
amp and 2.0 being 20 amp. Regardless, you've got 15-gauge wires or
20-gauge wire, as long as that 15-gauge wire can handle amperage,
which usually they do because of the safety factors, you will get what
you need to get out of that 20-amp capacity.
So going back to water works, the data from the manufacturers,
as well as the plumbing pump, clearly indicates that pressure is
variable; however, at a typical customer's house, like the one I have, is
about 60 -- plus/minus 10 percent, 60 PSI. And at that 60 PSI, if I
have my two showers working, my laundry's running, and my pressure
drops, and if I want to put my sprinkler system on -- as you all know,
sprinkler systems have three different diameters. When you purchase
it, it shows at certain PSI they have different distribution spectrum.
So my sprinkler system may not even come up, depending on
how much I consume velocity-related through put capacity, which is
flow, and the pressure that I need.
So with that, our service levels are determined given the
engineering firm, studies, master planning, and rate studies -- and this
Page 49
March 27, 2012
is not just for Collier County. There are a number of utilities users
with these kind of block rates.
And it goes back to Commissioner Henning's question, right on
the target. The answer is, yes, to -- indeed, we need to reserve
capacity in terms of production, in terms of distribution, and in terms
of bringing that water at the pressure to the meter so that we can
service two-inch meter and one-and-a-half-inch meter.
The difference is 1-and-a-half-inch meter at 60 PSI will give you
4-inch PSI drop versus 1.9, and that's where -- that's where the service
level kicks in. And, of course, higher the pressure you have, even
though you have smaller pipe, because of the fact that you have higher
pressure, you have higher velocity; therefore, you're getting higher
volume of water.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. But when you -- when
you have the same capacity, pipe size, eight-inch --
MR. YILMAZ: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- in the incoming and then you
have a meter, your meter is going to restrict pressure?
MR. YILMAZ: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So is pipe. So when you have a
larger capacity and you put it into a smaller capacity, you have to be
raising the pressure. It's like putting your finger over the hose; you
increase the pressure, but you're not increasing the capacity.
MR. YILMAZ: Sir, you're right, and that goes back to the
argument of 15-amp -- 15-gauge where we have 20-gauge amperage
and power coming into a 20-amp fuse; however, if I put a 15-amp
fuse, it doesn't matter on the other side. I've got 20-gauge both sides,
I'll still have 15-amp.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct. And if you have an
appliance that draws 20 amps, you're going to trip that breaker --
MR. YILMAZ: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- because you're drawing too
Page 50
March 27, 2012
many amps for the system.
MR. YILMAZ: Yes. And, however, in the waterworks and
hydraulics, like we have on electrical power systems, even the
15-gauge is designed to move, not to exceed 20-gauge capacity. That's
the upward limit.
So the point I'm making is, if we have the pressure from two-inch
meters, that one-and-a-half-inch will still have the pressure to be able
to move the velocity because they are a function of each other.
But if I don't have the pressure, you're exactly right, I won't have
the flow.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are you going to have more
pressure with a two-inch pipe or less pressure with a -- you're going to
have more pressure with a two-inch pipe versus an inch-and-a-half?
MR. YILMAZ: I will have --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: If your capacity on the
incoming --
MR. YILMAZ: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- is the same.
MR. YILMAZ: The incoming two-inch pipe going into two-inch
meter will be compatible; therefore, my pressure is going to be not
high, protecting the piping system due to the fact that I have
appropriate pressure. Going into, again, two-amp fuse box analogy
and two-inch meter, 20 versus two-inch, then I'm good all the way
there.
And as you have seen in our demonstration, that's what we have
done. And our customer came back and requested two-inch meter size
that has connection to two-inch pipe, and that's where we go and be
responsive to our developer and, as much as possible, provide them
water as they have requested.
Just for the record, if they could come in, and they could, and
ask, I want to have more than one size up meter, we will say, we need
engineer of record come back and show us full analysis.
Page 51
March 27, 2012
So from a practice standpoint, we only allow developers to go
one size up due to the fact that that's within the safety factor.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I pulled the permits from 2005,
not all of them, but just examples --
MR. YILMAZ: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- from 2005 to 2009.
MR. YILMAZ: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And on the detailed information,
there shows no changes from a -- you know, what was permitted.
Actually, these are -- all these buildings are, from the details, have all
-- you know, the drawings and that, because it is -- it had to show a
site plan and a building plan. There's no changes of meter sizes.
MR. YILMAZ: I will have our utility billing customer service
and financial operations to respond to it, because that's where the
change did occur in terms of requests from the developer and or
customer requesting two-inch meter prior to our installation.
Tom?
MR. WIDES: Commissioner, Tom Wides, again, to address your
question.
In 2005, 24 permits, which would have been the entire -- all the
buildings in the development, were pulled at that point in time. All 24
of them were requested to be two-inch. Subsequently, four of those
permits were canceled. Subsequent to that, in 2009, two permits were
requested by a different party within Centex. Our staff went back and
double-checked with them in 2009 whether they still wanted the
two-inch meters. At that point in time they asked for the
one-and-a-half-inch meters.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is that recorded --
MR. WIDES: But that's only --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is that recorded in the permit
tracking and inspection schedules and CDES?
MR. WIDES: Yes, sir. In the 2009 permit it is.
Page 52
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Somehow I missed that.
MR. WIDES: It literally walks through. You'll see a record for
each of the 24 permits, you'll see records for where they're canceled,
and then you'll see the records where the 2009 permits are requested.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. We're going to take a ten-minute
break, and then we will resume at 10:41. Thank you.
(A brief recess was had.)
MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Ladies and gentlemen, the Board of
County Commission meeting is back in session. Let's continue.
MR. OCHS: Thank you, sir.
Mr. Wides?
MR. WIDES: Yes, sir. Commissioners, there's a question been
asked about the records of the permits, and we have those ready to
show you on the visualizer here.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MR. WIDES: And what you'll see, this is an example of one of
the first permits that was issued back in 2005. You'll see on the
document -- and this is for Quincy Square. You'll see on the
right-hand side the owner's name is Centex Homes, and then you
have, on the left side, a box that says applicant, authorized signer,
name, and then contact name.
What you're going to see is the name Dorcey, okay. And this is a
Centex representative at the time. The next page of the permit
document is the actual record of the conversation. And if you look on
3/8 of'05, a new two-inch meter, customer request, four units over
1,500 square feet, per Dorcey.
Now, you will see that repeated throughout the 24 permits.
We've just given this one as an example. And I'm also prepared to
speak to the 2009 question that Commissioner Henning had, if you
wish.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You may as well go ahead.
Page 53
March 27, 2012
MR. OCHS: There it is.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The permits are -- just was for
my information of where I could find the history of it. I think it's
irrelevant. I think everybody would agree that the developer asked for
a larger meter. I was just trying to figure out where to find it in the
system.
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
MR. WIDES: I just wanted to make sure it would be --
MR. OCHS: Commissioner Fiala had asked for the
documentation earlier, so we just thought we would present it very
quickly.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: All right.
MR. OCHS: If we could just go ahead and finish the staff
remarks.
MR. WIDES: Right. I'd like to ask Paul Mattausch, our Director
of the Water Department, to discuss the operational impacts of the line
size and the meter configuration.
Paul?
MR. MATTAUSCH: Thank you, Tom.
Commissioners, for the record, Paul Mattausch, Director of the
Water Department.
Commissioner Henning, when you reduce the size or introduce
an orifice, like a hose nozzle, what you do is you increase the velocity
significantly, but you do that at the expense of pressure. There is a
pressure loss.
In fact, one of the ways that we measure water flows in water
pipes is by introducing an orifice, a smaller size pipe. You can
measure the pressure loss across that orifice and calculate that and get
flow rate through the pipe. So there is a pressure loss.
Now, let me put it simply in, you know, laymen's terms. If I
were in -- on the second floor of the building and I was going to take a
shower in the morning and everybody else was using water in some
Page 54
March 27, 2012
manner, dishwasher's running, other people taking showers, irrigation
system's going on, whatever the water use is, if I had a two-inch
service and a two-inch meter -- no, let's start with the inch-and-a-half.
If I had a two-inch service, an inch-and-a-half meter, and an
inch-and-a-half pipe downstream, I would have a certain flow rate
because the inch-and-a-half downstream pipe introduces some kind of
pressure loss in the system. The inch-and-a-half meter introduces
some kind of pressure loss in the system.
Now, if I go to a two-inch meter, I reduce the amount of pressure
loss that's in the meter by half, approximately, on -- at almost every
given flow rate. And so if I've reduced the pressure loss across the
meter, if I'm in the shower, I'm actually going to get more water.
There will be more downstream pressure because I have lessened the
loss between a one-and-a-half-inch meter and a two-inch meter.
So regardless of the downstream piping size, if I lessen the
upstream loss, I lessen the loss downstream.
MR. OCHS: That concludes our staff presentation.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Let's call the public speakers.
MR. MITCHELL: Sir, your first speaker is Rob Samouce.
MR. SAMOUCE: Actually, Mike's going to go first.
MR. MITCHELL: That's Michael Etelamaki.
MR. ETELAMAKI: Can I use this podium?
MR. OCHS: Yeah, that's fine.
MR. ETELAMAKI: For the record, Mike Etelamaki with W.J.
Johnson & Associates. We're the engineers for Quincy Square
Homeowners Association. We were engaged to do the turnover study.
And so we've got -- been involved in trying to answer questions
for them and represent their interests.
What I have -- the county manager has put up on the screen -- is
your policy, and that policy is entitled --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can you blow it up so we can
see it?
Page 55
March 27, 2012
MR. ETELAMAKI: Can you blow it up, Leo?
MR. OCHS: Sure. I didn't know what portion you wanted here.
MR. ETELAMAKI: Right at the heading. Water meter sizing
form. And then in the middle there's, like, four or five different
paragraphs, and I'm referring to Paragraph No. 4. It says, Collier
County Utilities' meter sizing policy is as follows: The design
engineer/architect must submit signed and sealed documentation
supporting water meter sizing.
For meters four inches or smaller, the sizing shall be based upon
fixture flow values as shown in the follow page and sized per the table
on Page 3 unless approved otherwise by the Collier County Utilities
Engineering Department, which possibly has happened. I don't know.
There's no documentation, as Commissioner Henning has already
said, and the staff has put up what is available. But as part of those
documents, I don't see -- and I haven't seen anything that resembles
this meter-sizing form, which is your policy.
So who took it upon themselves in 2005 to approve a two-inch
meter and inch-and-a-half, or whatever was put out there, two-inch
service line possibly at that time, without having this documentation,
this requirement being performed by an engineer. And if, indeed, it
was done in-house, then where is Collier County's engineering
department's record of that?
So I'd just bring that up as an answer or at least another -- maybe
another question as to what was presented earlier.
The other thing I'd like to refer to -- and I think you have a copy
of it in your packet -- is my letter, and I'll restate my opinion, that the
installation of the two-inch meters for the residential buildings was
totally unnecessary. It's also my opinion that, in the case of Quincy
Square, Collier County was responsible for the process of sizing the
water meters and the coordination of the preconstruction meetings, the
permits, and all of the inspections during the installation.
And the closing paragraph in that letter, restated when, in 2006,
Page 56
March 27, 2012
somebody called for, hey, turn my water on and connect my meter,
that's part of the process, somebody from Collier County was out there
to put the meter installed, connecting a two-inch line with an
inch-and-a-half-inch (sic) line, somebody should have raised the
question at that point, why is this? Why are we putting a two-inch
meter on an inch-and-a-half service line which provides no benefit
whatsoever, including this hydraulic capacity that's been talked about,
especially the fact that we have a separate fire line. There's domestic
water consumption and there's fire line protection.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Can I stop you just for a moment to
clarify something. Your time has expired. You're allowed three
minutes.
MR. ETELAMAKI: I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: But how many speakers are you going to
have, Rob?
MR. SAMOUCE: Just me and him.
MR. MITCHELL: Sir, we've three speakers.
MR. ETELAMAKI: I'll wrap it up in one minute.
MR. MITCHELL: We've three speakers altogether. This
gentleman was the first one, then we have another two.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Are there three?
MR. MITCHELL: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Oh, there's another gentleman. Okay.
MR. ETELAMAKI: I can do it --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: No. I'm not trying to limit you. I think
you deserve enough time to address the issue. I mean, the staff has
had substantial amount of time to make the case. And if we're not just
going to have a general public meeting, if you're going to stick
specifically with that issue, I will grant you an extension of time. But
if you would, try to wrap it up in a reasonable period of time.
MR. ETELAMAKI: Yeah. I can wrap it up right now, in fact. I
made the two points that I wanted to, and especially the meter sizing
Page 57
March 27, 2012
form. There's no record of anybody doing that calculation back in
2005. That's point number one. Number two, an inch-and-a-half
service line is plenty adequate. It's totally unnecessary to meter it with
a two-inch line. That extra capacity that we've been talking about is
totally unnecessary. You've got a separate fire line, and that's the only
reason why you'd want, for safety purposes, to have extra capacity out
there, and that's been done already through the fire line.
So that ends my presentation.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Is the separate fire line that two-inch
line, or it is some other line?
MR. ETELAMAKI: It's some other line tapped into the --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Explain to us what a fixture flow value
is.
MR. ETELAMAKI: Well, that's provided through the Florida
Plumbing Code, and it requires the engineer of record to go through
the building plans and establish -- it's an equivalency factor for -- flush
toilets, for example, bathroom lavatories, showers, bathtubs, and the
code assigns a fixture value, and there's a range that is recommended
for certain meter sizing.
So it's in the Florida Plumbing Code. And I don't have that
document in front of me right now to --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: But you haven't seen such a fixture flow
value worksheet attached to any of these permits?
MR. ETELAMAKI: Not from 2005, no. There was in 2009.
Centex's engineer of record, HSA, did that calculation and, apparently,
that was the reason why some of them were corrected or changed out
in 2009, but not all of them. There's 20-some others, I believe, out
there that are still -- where there's two-inch lines -- or two-inch meters.
So the only official record or calculation for the record was
Centex's own engineer of record, HSA, in 2009, but that's three, four
years after it should have been done in 2005 and 2006. That would
have been the proper time to do it.
Page 58
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Thank you.
MR. ETELAMAKI: All right, thank you.
MR. MITCHELL: The next speaker is Rob Samouce.
MR. SAMOUCE: Thank you, Commissioners. My name is Rob
Samouce. I represent Quincy Square at Madison Park Condominium
Association, Inc.
As we can see, there was quite a few things apparently not done
right in 2005. There were no meters sizing forms that Mr. Etelamaki
just talked about that the county required to be done when these
meters were being ordered.
What we have been shown is a cryptic note on a permit saying
somebody named Dorcey requested these two inches metered (sic) at a
phone number that doesn't -- nobody answers that phone number, and
we've not been able to find who Ed Dorcey is.
Again, I guess when the two inches were requested, we don't see
any incentive for staff to question that at the time because, of course,
the county makes more money -- a lot more money on a 2-inch meter
than a 1.5-inch meter. So maybe there was no check and balance like
you would have if there was competition to make sure it was the
correct meter going in by the county.
At the beginning here, the county representative said that the
association was demanding $149,000 as a refund. First of all, as we
said two weeks ago, we're not requesting a refund. We're requesting a
credit in the future. So it's not taking money out of other people's
pockets in the community. We're just requesting a credit.
We've asked the county for quite a long time what the actual
numbers would have been different with the 1.5 and the 2-inch meter.
Finally, as of yesterday, we got an email saying what that was, and the
difference would have been $118,441 according to the county's
internal numbers of what the difference would have been -- they
would not have paid had they had the correct meter installed.
So that about sums it up, you know. It sounds like back in two
Page 59
March 27, 2012
oh five, that's when the boom was happening, a lot of things were
going on. I'm sure staff was overrun with work at the time, and some
of these things slipped through the crack. But the problem with that is
it's cost our client at this point $118,000 if we can't work a credit out
for the mistakes that were done.
So that's what I have to say.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good. Thank you very much.
MR. MITCHELL: Sir, your last speaker is Gary Davis.
MR. DAVIS: Thank you, Commissioners. My name is Gary
Davis representing Blue Sky's Co-Op, Incorporated, on 6405 Radio
Road. I'm not related to the Quincy problem, but it's a similar
problem over at Blue Sky's.
Either late December or early January the water/sewer
department met with me at Blue Sky's and indicated that they wanted
to add a line across Radio Road to our park and a new meter. And I
questioned, would there be any additional cost to Blue Sky, and they
said, no, it would be a county expense.
Our park is fed by two lines coming across Radio Road into the
park. One line was shut off back in -- I believe in January. And when
the new meter was installed, we noticed our water bills increased
significantly.
We discovered that the second line was off and never turned on.
My assumption is, if water flows through two meters, you're going to
get one rate. But if all of it flows in one, because of the tier system,
your rates are going to be higher. That's a question I need to have
answered by the commissioners.
And then I proceeded to call the building -- building (sic)
department, the utility building (sic) department, and inquired about
the change in rates and the reasons for it. The lady on the phone said,
well, let me explore. She came back and said, well, we've discovered
that you've been overbilled for the past four years about 48 percent,
and have you received a letter from the utilities building (sic)
Page 60
March 27, 2012
department? No, we haven't.
She said, well, probably you haven't because they haven't
checked your second meter to see if that's accurate.
So I'd like the County Commission to see what the circumstances
are related to Blue Sky's and the water problem there in the billing. If
you could do that, please, I'd certainly appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you very much.
Tom --
MR. MITCHELL: Sir, that was your last speaker.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Tom is shaking his head that he will get
you an answer; right, Tom?
MR. WIDES: Yes, sir, Commissioner. We'll look into that, and
we'll respond to that separate issue. Not an issue here.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MR. WIDES: If at all -- you know, if you have questions, we'd
like to respond to those. We'd like to, absent that, wrap up the
discussion on what was in place in 2005 versus 2009 as far as the
ordinances. But that's -- other than that, we have no other comments.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'd like to make a motion, and that
is that the county award the credit to the homeowners association
based on what has been put forth here today at the hearing.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll second it, if you would
amend it. Staff doesn't know how many units or how many buildings
have two-inch versus one-and-a-half. I think the direction needs to be
that we direct staff to go out there on the meters that were changed, to
give credit on the units that have inch-and-a-half pipe and not the
two-inch. The outgoing pipe, if it's inch-and-a-half give a credit for
services not rendered, and not the two-inch pipe. Do you agree?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'm trying to understand exactly
what you're saying --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
Page 61
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- because you -- so basically, I
mean, they're supposed to be getting the -- they're supposed to be
getting a credit for what they haven't received, and what they haven't
received is basically the overcharging based on the two-inch pipe
where they should have had a one-and-a-half-inch pipe?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct. And staff has said,
along with residents, that a two-inch meter was installed on an
inch-and-a-half outgoing pipe; however, it was stated that staff has
recognized four of the five meters changed, there were three that had
inch-and-a-half pipe. So they have to go out and verify what pipe size
is. They had -- if they had two-inch pipe going into their building,
they had the availability of capacity.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right, right. So, okay. I
understand. So basically to amend the motion for staff to verify the
pipe size and adjust that credit accordingly. So if they had a two-inch
pipe and a two-inch meter, there wouldn't be a credit. If there was a
one-and-a-half-inch pipe and a two-inch meter, there would be a
credit.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I think that -- and, Rob, could you
come up for a second?
I want to confirm one thing. The only problem with what you're
proposing is that if they properly should have only had
one-and-a-half-inch pipe all along, even though they got the benefit of
having the two-inch pipe, it wasn't what they wanted. I mean, are we
just going to basically say, you know, since they got that benefit, they
still -- they remain liable for it even though it wasn't what they wanted
and they paid a higher rate for that increased flow? Because that's
essentially what you're saying.
So I want to know what your position is. If we find that there is a
two-inch pipe attached to a two-inch meter, are you going to claim a
credit for that? I mean, that's an unknown right now, because maybe
Page 62
March 27, 2012
that isn't a situation that exists.
MR. SAMOUCE: Yeah. Of the 22 homes, it appears that staff,
in November, checked four of those, and -- four out of the 22. Three
of them had a 1.5-inch pipe going to the home. One had a 2-inch pipe
going to the home. Why the one had the 2-inch, we don't know. So,
you know, all 22 --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: When you calculated --
MR. SAMOUCE: All 22 pipes have not been checked by staff to
see what's going from where the meter was to the home.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So maybe the motion really ought
to be that we should have staff check the size of all pipes and the size
of all meters to all the properties in that project and then work with
you to come up with what the credit ought to be and then to bring that
back and for us to approve whatever the credit is based on your
reconciliation based on the facts.
MR. SAMOUCE: I think that would be fine.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Except -- Commissioner Coyle,
except for -- the fact is the two last buildings that were built, an
inch-and-a-half meter was installed.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's fine. Well, if an
inch-and-a-half was installed and they had the wrong meter, then they
are entitled to a credit. If an-inch-and-a-half was installed and they
had an inch-and-a-half meter, then it just doesn't factor into the
reconciliation because it's a non-issue. There shouldn't be a problem.
So they just have to go unit by unit and work out a reconciliation
and bring a schedule back to us that shows us what the pipe size is,
what the meter is sized -- what the meter size is for every unit, where
there is the discrepancy, because it should have been one-and-a-half,
one-and-a-half. And, you know, if there is a difference because it isn't
one-and-a-half, one-and-a-half, that is what you are entitled to as a
credit.
Page 63
March 27, 2012
MR. SAMOUCE: Correct. And the staff has calculated the
difference of, you know, two inches versus one-and-a-half for each
meter. They've already calculated that, so that shouldn't be that tough
to do.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right. So now you just need to go
back and finish the analysis with the size of the pipe.
MR. SAMOUCE: Right.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And then bring us back --
MR. SAMOUCE: Yeah. Staff can go back and look at the other
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So we know at a minimum you're
entitled to the credit that you've asked for. The only question remains
is if you're entitled to a greater credit for where they installed the
wrong pipe, a two-inch pipe with a two-inch meter.
MR. SAMOUCE: Right, yeah. The question then, even if they
had a two-inch going to the house, you know, we don't know why that
was there. But, again, if the house was planned and built for
one-and-a-half meters, should there be some credit for that also?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right, right. And that's what
you'll bring back now.
So what we can do is, actually, we can break up the motion into
two parts, approve a credit today for what we know, what you've
worked out with staff, and then come back with a further analysis of
where they've incorrectly placed two-inch pipes with two-inch meters
and ask for a credit for whatever you identify, to the extent that exists.
MR. SAMOUCE: Right, yeah. So if staff could look at the other
-- 20 minus four -- 16 pipes and see if they're 1.5 or see if they're 2,
and we can get a listing of all those and make those calculations.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That would be great. And work
with staff on that, and then bring that back, and that would be, you
know, a second action on the part of the board.
So would that satisfy you, Commissioner Henning, if we
Page 64
March 27, 2012
bifurcate the motion?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I don't know. It's --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah, it's complicated.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: All this sizing has got me
confused.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's pretty straightforward. I mean,
we basically -- what they were supposed to have was
one-and-a-half-inch pipes with one-and-a-half-inch meters. Instead,
without their approval, the county, in part, installed two-inch meters
where there were one-and-a-half-inch pipes, which caused an
overcharge and, secondly, it appears they may have also, in some
instances, installed a two-inch pipe with a two-inch meter, but we
don't know how many times that has occurred.
So to the extent that has occurred, they would be entitled to a
credit for that also.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: See, I don't agree with that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah, I don't either.
MR. SAMOUCE: The county wouldn't have installed the
two-inch from the meter to the home. The developer would have done
that on those cases.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay.
MR. SAMOUCE: We don't know how many of those cases there
are.
MR. OCHS: In fact, the county didn't install the main or the
two-inch service line from the main to the meter.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So let me go back to the question
then. Is there an issue with the county -- I mean, what you're telling
me now is different than what you said before. If it would have been a
developer issue, then there wouldn't be a claim for those two-inch
pipes, two-inch meters with respect to the county.
MR. SAMOUCE: Well, I guess the question, you know, again,
then, is if the buildings were developed as 1.5-inch buildings, if they
Page 65
March 27, 2012
checked the rest of them and all but two or three are 1.5-inch pipes,
and for whatever reason the developer had extra two-inch pipe laying
around and put it on buildings, should those still have been a 1.5
meter, too?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, you need to go back and
look at those facts, and maybe I don't -- then I'm going to delete that
portion of my motion, and you need to go back and work on that with
staff And if you decide there's something to bring forward, bring it
forward.
So I'm going to amend my motion to basically say that you get a
credit for what you've asked related to the units that have been
checked and to the one-and-a-half-- to the two-inch meters on the
one-and-a-half-inch pipe.
MR. SAMOUCE: Right. So all ones -- once they're checked, all
meters that have 1.5-inch pipe going to the home "from" should be
getting the credits.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right.
MR. SAMOUCE: And other ones not at this time unless we
have a reason to.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right.
MR. SAMOUCE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And then just come back. Rather
than me give direction, just go do what you want. And if you figure
out that more is owed, just come back and provide the evidence.
MR. SAMOUCE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, you can make the motion however
you wish. But let me tell you, I'm sympathetic to giving a credit, but
I'm not going to vote for that motion because it doesn't take into
consideration the totality of the issue. And until we have all the facts,
I am reluctant to make a decision on part of the issue and then have
you come back later on with some additional information and we
make another decision perhaps based upon different criteria. And I
Page 66
March 27, 2012
would like to get all the facts at one time.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's just a delay tactic.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And I am disappointed that staff hasn't
come here with the knowledge of just how many of these
circumstances there are. I don't know how you come here and argue
for charging people with capacity that they might not have used
without at least checking to see how many units there are that actually
are in that -- in that situation.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And then that's my concern is, let's get
the facts first and then make a decision based upon what we think is
appropriate.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Then I'm going to amend -- if
you'd like to do that, I mean, if you want all the facts now rather than
dealing with what we know and letting them go back and explore
further, then I'm going to amend my motion to continue this to the
next meeting, come back with all the facts, make your claim, and then
we'll vote on it.
But my position remains, as my original motion indicated, and
that is I believe you are correct and I believe you're entitled to the
credit. And so I will support you in this.
And, quite frankly, I'm really concerned about what's going on
with billings in utilities.
MR. SAMOUCE: Okay. So are you going to direct staff to go
check the other lines --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yes.
MR. SAMOUCE: -- before the next meeting so we'll know?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yes, absolutely, and to work with
you to bring back an amended proposal in addition to what you've
asked for, okay. We're not going to revisit what was addressed here
today. We're only going to look to do what Commissioner Coyle
would like, and that is see if there is any credit owed for those
Page 67
March 27, 2012
pipe/meters that have not been examined by staff and by you.
Is that okay?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That's fine with me. That clarifies it
substantially.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you for your comments,
Commissioner Coyle.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Second by Commissioner Henning.
Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, just a question, please.
So when a developer -- whomever it is, not particularly this one,
any developer -- goes in and they then install the water and the piping
and the meters on their own and then we come over and inspect them,
do we say to them, you put in the wrong size, or do you say, well, you
can't install that or that wouldn't be sufficient or that would be too
much?
MR. WIDES: Commissioner, thank you for asking that question
because, again, the way -- and if I don't answer your question, please
bring me back. But, again, at the time the development is envisioned,
the first thing that goes in the ground is the infrastructure. That
eight-inch pipe I talked about is done by the developer. They run a
service line which, in all cases, was two-inch.
We put the -- we hang the meter and we stop. At some point
subsequent to that time, it could be a month, it could be six months,
depending on how they build those units out, then the service lines are
run from the buildings.
So it's long after. And when I say "long," it could be weeks,
months, et cetera. It's after we set those meters based on their
instruction that that information is put in place.
Do we go back? No. Most of that is -- it's put in the ground, it's
put underground, and that's not why our folks are on the verge of
Page 68
March 27, 2012
going back to dig up those service lines that are on the property or on
the developer's side of the right-of-way. We don't go past the
right-of-way. We stop at the meter. We do not go past.
But, again, that service line off that big main was two-inch in all
cases. We hung two-inch meters at the request. And I'll stop. But
that's why we're really struggling with this, Commissioners, to give a
refund under this scenario.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm glad you're going to bring it
back. I think that that's a good idea. I still think there's some things
unanswered.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. I understood
Commissioner Henning's motion in the beginning. I thought it was
fairly reasonable; however, there's one issue that I'd like to talk about
and -- in fairness. I mean, we have to deal with this as a fairness issue.
But how about the rest of the ratepayers that are out there?
The difference in money that will come -- it has to come from the
system itself. It's not going to come from the General Fund of Collier
County Government. It's going to come from, what, reserves from
sewer and water?
MR. WIDES: Commissioner, what will happen is we will give
this credit if we're instructed to do so. That credit will take --
essentially take money out of the system that other ratepayers will
pay. There's no other place to go. It's a closed system.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So the other ratepayers will be
helping us -- they'll be helping to correct the mistake by -- their money
will be dedicated in part to making this correction?
MR. OCHS: Well, Commissioner, we're not admitting that it
was a mistake, so let's just, you know, for the record, get that straight.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And I understand. And we're
dealing with a fairness issue. And we've done this before. We've had
like, for example, Orangetree, when we had the Oil Well Road going
Page 69
March 27, 2012
through area, the Waterways community did not sign a contract with
our road building department to be able to get a wall in. They brought
it before this commission, and they weighed all the facts; in a fairness
issue, they granted them the wall.
MR. OCHS: Different issue.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We're talking about the same
thing; it's a fairness issue. Points of the law we could argue all day
long, and if you did that, they probably shouldn't get the refund. You
know, you sign a contract. That's supposed to be it. We're supposed
to sit up here and make judgments over and above what signed
contracts are. Don't have a problem about it. But we need to
understand where this money's coming from.
Now, this is going to be a credit against future use to be able to
draw that amount down if it's a sizable amount of money over a period
of time or --
MR. WIDES: That is what the homeowners association has
requested.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. And that will be coming
back, too?
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
MR. WIDES: That will come back as part of our continuance.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Now, in my opinion -- just so
you'll be prepared to bring back some answers next time. In my
opinion, it is clearly a developer problem. And I don't know how you
police that, but we might want to take a look at our procedures to
make sure. But the fact that we did not seem to follow procedures
which were established in getting fixture flow rates, and design and
that sort of thing and reviewing, them makes us culpable to some
extent, but it clearly was the developer who requested this. We did it
in accordance with the developer's request.
But here is my problem: If it is true that the end users were
Page 70
March 27, 2012
incapable -- because of the one-and-a-half-inch pipe were incapable of
placing a demand on our system which was reserved by the two-inch
meter, then they have been funding a capacity which they could never
have used to the benefit of other users, and for that they are entitled to
a refund.
So, now, how do you enforce that? How do you make sure it
doesn't happen again? I don't have the slightest idea, because it's a
difficult thing to do. But I would hope you'd give some thought to that
as far as a future solution is concerned as well as I would like to see
some information to inform me better about whether they were, in
fact, paying for capacity that they did not have the ability to use.
Okay?
MR. WIDES: Yes, sir, I understand.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you. Okay. Then --
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, that --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Did we vote on that?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All in favor, please signify by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. The motion passes unanimously.
It is continued.
Item #5A
PRESENTATION BY STEVE HOLMES, EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF THE FLORIDA COMMISSION FOR THE
Page 71
March 27, 2012
TRANSPORTATION DISADVANTAGED - PRESENTED AND
COMMISSIONERS RAISED CONCERNS REGARDING OUT OF
AREA TRANSPORTS OF MEDICAID PARTICIPANTS
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, you have an 11 a.m. time-certain
item. It's Item 5A. It's a --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Right on time again.
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir -- presentation by Steve Holmes, Executive
Director of the Florida Commission for the Transportation
Disadvantaged.
MR. HOLMES: Good morning, Commissioners. I'm Steve
Holmes, the Executive Director for the Governor's Commission for
the Transportation Disadvantaged.
And today I appreciate the opportunity to take a few minutes to
discuss a very complicated issue in front of us. There's some
economics involved, but there's also a lot of human services involved,
and I feel for the decision that you're going to have to make here in the
very near future.
There's -- a strong and vibrant Florida and a Collier County
depends upon people who are productive and who actively participate
in the life of their communities. To actively participate in the life of
those communities, people, especially older adults, persons with
disabilities, people with low income, require transportation or access
to transportation to employment, for medical care, education, and
other life-sustaining activities.
The commission for the Transportation Advantaged --
Disadvantaged, working with the Collier County Board of County
Commissioners as the community transportation coordinator, is
responsible for the coordinated transportation system in Florida.
Today you'll -- later on you'll receive a very good briefing about
the economics of the situation that you're facing on the Transportation
Disadvantaged, but today I'm going to focus just a little bit on the
Page 72
March 27, 2012
human impact of that decision that you will have to face in the very
near future.
Let me first talk a little about the benefits of the coordinated
system. Currently in Collier County you have a coordinated
transportation system. You have both Medicaid, you have
Transportation Disadvantaged, and you have the ADA systems all
under one house.
The coordinated transportation system, by keeping it coordinated,
allows you to keep costs down by reducing things like administrative
costs, duplication, and those types of efforts. For example, well -- or,
therefore, by reducing those costs, you're going to be able to serve
more people with the same amount of dollars.
Let me give you an example of what could occur with the
splitting of the coordinated system. Let's take Medicaid, for instance,
since that's the topic of today's discussion.
In the future of a split system, you could have an individual --
Medicaid will pay for an elderly person to go to the doctor to get a
prescription, but Medicaid will not pay for that individual to go to
CVS or Walgreen or Walmart for that prescription to be filled. That
would be paid for by another program.
So what we could see is Mrs. Holmes in the future with the
Medicaid, to make an appointment for a Medicaid trip, will go get
their appointment, they will then have to make a separate appointment
through another funding source, likely the Transportation
Disadvantaged Fund, to go get their prescription filled for that -- for
that prescription.
Another example on duplication is by splitting the system there
would be two call centers in Collier County, or people who are
responsible for two call centers. For instance, the Medicaid,
transportation would be one call center, whether that's in Collier
County or whether that's someplace else in the state.
If you want to receive a Transportation Disadvantaged
Page 73
March 27, 2012
transportation, you would have a call center still here in Collier
County. So you would have duplication of call centers, therefore,
increasing the administration costs and which, therefore, allows less
dollars for individuals to use the system.
The main driver of what's going on in the strategic environment
throughout Florida is managed care, is the legislative body in last year
2009, voted to reform Medicaid and move to managed care. Through
that movement, the system, in effect, in the near future will be split.
We will have Medicaid through brokers working for managed care
and we will have the Transportation Disadvantaged Fund. So, in
effect, in a number of years, couple years, we will have two different
systems.
The impact of that is in the -- in this year, 2012, July 1st, the
Agency for Healthcare Administration will submit an invitation to
negotiate to begin negotiation for the long-term care -- managed care
aspect of managed care. And it's important to sort of understand these
various moving pieces, because it affects our people, and especially
our elders, our elderly adults, and our disabled.
There's going to be the long-term managed care system. So
currently right now you're going to have -- people in Collier County
are calling -- they need a trip, they're calling a particular number.
Once the long-term care -- managed care aspect of the program comes
online, those individuals in assisted living facilities, other type of
long-term care facilities will -- if they need transportation to Medicaid
or some type of a trip, they will now be calling a different number.
That transition will begin in January of 2013.
At the same time, the Agency for Healthcare Administration will
be submitting an invitation to negotiate for the managed medical
assistance program, another program. So now you're going to have
that same individual whose calling one number for managed care for
the long-term care now will likely be calling a separate number for the
managed medical assistance aspect of the transportation. So -- and that
Page 74
March 27, 2012
will occur throughout 2014.
So in a period of between now and potentially two years from
now, Mrs. Holmes is liable to have to go through three -- a minimum
of three different numbers, three different transitions to determine
whether she's going to go have some type of a medical assistance -- or
medical trip and, therefore, if it's not a Medicaid-compensable service,
they will have to then call the Transportation Disadvantaged.
So there's a lot of moving pieces, a lot of confusion from the
aspect of the user of transportation services in Collier County, and not
only Collier County, throughout the State of Florida.
We understand there's an issue. I think the legislature
understands that there was an issue because, through the efforts of
Senator Benacquisto, Commissioner Fiala, Commissioner Hiller, who
were up beating the doors and walking the halls of the capitol here a
few months ago, we received -- the Transportation Disadvantaged
Fund received $5 million from the legislature. And when you think
about, in a year where many cuts were being made, the legislature
recognized the importance of transportation and funded $5 million or
placed $5 million into the Transportation Disadvantaged Trust Fund,
understanding some of these issues that may be occurring around the
state.
In Collier County -- the impact of that $5 million in Collier
County will be -- the Transportation Disadvantaged Trust Fund, the
commission, will increase the funding of Transportation
Disadvantaged dollars by about $91,000 this coming-up year for
Collier County.
I've also instructed staff to -- we have budget authority for over
$65 million in the State of Florida, and we have extra cash to be able
to pump into that. I'm working with the Agency for Healthcare
Administration to fully fund the $65 million.
And if we're able to do that, and I think we can, we will add
another almost $100,000 into Medicaid dollars into Collier County.
Page 75
March 27, 2012
So this coming-up year, starting in July, the commission will be able
to place in Collier County almost $190,000, new dollars, additional
dollars, into Collier County.
And as you will receive in a briefing coming up, the fare
increase, if those are improved, you'll receive, I think, another $70,000
as part of the dollars there. So new revenues coming into the system
could attribute for about 270-, $280,000.
As I mentioned to Commissioner Fiala through our discussions
up in the capitol and through our discussion with the Local
Coordinating Board last week, the commission would like to work
with the Local Coordinating Board, with the Collier Board of County
Commissioners to see what we can do to help reduce costs. So I know
you're in a very difficult situation on the costs, you know, budget, and
how could we help in reducing the costs to achieve some of your goals
that you have established for your transit authority.
One of the unintended consequences of Medicaid recipients not
getting to their doctors' appointments either on time or at all is there's
a new study out that mentions the increase of emergency room visits
by Medicaid recipients who were not able to get to their doctors'
appointments. That's a factor that's hard to figure out. It's hard to
determine what that factor is.
It's not in the study that you had. I wouldn't expect it to be in the
study that's going to be presented to you, but it's something to consider
on the costs of splitting the system, the costs to the Collier County
Government, things other than what you'll be receiving through your
port, so unintended consequences of human aspects and unintended
consequences of emergency room visits and the cost associated with
that.
If you make the decision to split the system, we'll need to bring
in a new provider. I've already instructed staff-- and we will release
requests for proposal on Friday in which -- to go through the process
to have a provider onboard for you before the first of July when you'll
Page 76
March 27, 2012
be giving up your contract. So we've got staff working on that right
now.
But when a new provider comes in -- generally, when a new
provider comes in who's a private provider or broker, they will
institute certain programs in gatekeeping responsibilities that tightens
down who receives Medicaid transportation.
Some of the things they'll be doing is they'll be pushing more for
bus passes. That's one possibly. That's not a possibility; that's going
to be a fact. There will be a transitioning from the Medicaid, moving
it to the ADA system, which will be another cost onto the local
government, and that -- in fact, those factors are included into your
packet, into your study.
There will also be an impact on the Transportation
Disadvantaged Fund. At least we've got another $5 million associated
with that today, or this year.
The impact of people -- by reducing the gatekeeping -- by
reducing the gatekeeping, there will be people, as we've found in other
counties around the state, that will let you know their feelings. Some
who are used to the system will not want to ride buses. They will not
-- they will want a different type of transportation. So there will be
constituent issues involved with this. There will be less people served.
By moving Medicaid and by having ADA and Transportation
Disadvantaged funds now supporting medical trips, you will have
individuals who are now going to the grocery store, now going to
other life-sustaining activities -- the funds are liable not to be there for
those particular individuals. So, in fact, what the board will be doing is
basically prioritizing medical trips as the major use for Transportation
Disadvantaged Funds for next year.
And the last aspect I'll mention as the impact of this decision is
there's loss of local control. Right now you have the hammer. You
can impact the Medicaid provider, which happens to be you-all, but
once we provide -- once we go through the invitation to negotiate and
Page 77
March 27, 2012
we award a contract, that contract now will be with the commission in
Tallahassee. We'll be working with you, but the hammer -- there is a
loss of local control on that transportation provider and how that
individual, that company, will reduce some of the constituent issues
that will rise.
With that, Commission, I'll make one -- three recommendations
for you. Well, one recommendation and three considerations.
It is a very complicated issue. Because the system will be split in
the next year and a half to two years anyhow, we recommend from the
commission standpoint that you go ahead and approve the contract for
one more year. You have new funds coming. Let's see if we can
work to reduce some of the costs.
And by looking at the increase, we'll be looking at contracting
with the commission for one more year, it will reduce at least one of
those transition periods that Mrs. Holmes will not have to go through,
will that -- it will take out that movement to long-term care, which will
happen this coming-up year. It will take that out of the play. So now
Mrs. Holmes is only going to now be needing to do two transitions,
this one and the one for the managed medical assistance.
It will allow us to work with Collier County to help reduce the
costs. And you have a lot of innovative folks down here. Our Local
Coordinating Board was very clear, when I was listening to that
meeting, participating, that you have some very creative individuals,
and I think you can reduce some costs around this issue.
And there will be constituent issues. And I think by keeping the
contract, it will allow you to maintain local control and to reduce some
of those -- or keep some of those constituent issues arising during this
particular political season.
So with that, Mr. Chair, I will take any questions or sit down, as
you desire.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So this is going to turn out to be
Page 78
March 27, 2012
a political issue for the State of Florida, right? You're going to make it
a political issue.
Who runs Medicaid? Who is that; is that the State of Florida?
MR. HOLMES: The Agency for Healthcare Administration is
the --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The State of Florida?
MR. HOLMES: Well, the federal government --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Federal government.
MR. HOLMES: And the State of Florida.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So the State of Florida decided
to take on the responsibility of the federal government, and the State
of Florida now wants to let local government do that. That's what I'm
hearing from you.
And, you know, our local representatives sponsored a bill on
Medicaid that costs Collier County $2 million.
And, you know, I appreciate the transportation department
wanting to take on the federal responsibilities, but don't shove it down
our throat and make it a political issue, like you said. You're going to
make it a political issue in this political season.
MR. HOLMES: Well, Commissioner, I didn't say I would make
it political. I would just let you know the constituent issues that will
arise out of the situation.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But they're constituents of the
State of Florida.
MR. HOLMES: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Your choice, your department
chose to take on this issue.
MR. HOLMES: Sir, Medicaid has been there for a long time.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It has, and it's a federal issue.
It's not a local issue. The unfunded mandates that your bosses put on
local government is too much. The regulations or the lack of
self-control of local government is getting to be too much. Big
Page 79
March 27, 2012
government, in the federal government and in Tallahassee, your
bosses have little contact with their constituency. So get in contact
with your constituency and serve them and don't demand that local
governments do it, okay.
We have our own issues. We're unique. Every county in the
State of Florida has unique issues. Leave us alone. Okay?
MR. HOLMES: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Let me ask a question. As you pointed
out, we're going to have a hearing on this issue a little bit later on.
And one of the things that struck me in our executive summary is that
22 percent of our paratransit program trips were Medicaid trips for
traveling as far away as Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando, Miami, and
Tallahassee.
Can you give us some idea as to why that is the case? Why are
we transporting people to all of these other locations if they're living
here in Collier County and presumably getting medical care here in
Collier County? I mean, everybody else who lives here pretty much
gets their care here. What's going on? Can you help us with that?
MR. HOLMES: Commissioner, I can't give you the specifics,
but I'll give you some anecdotes through some discussions.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MR. HOLMES: One, sometimes the Medicaid, the doctors for
these particular clients may not be in Collier County. They may be in
Naples (sic). They may be other places. There may be some
specialized care associated with that, so that may be one factor.
Another factor could be folks have been used to going to Miami,
they've been used to going to Naples (sic), they've been used to going
-- and instead of the gatekeeping, as we talked about earlier, saying,
maybe you don't really need to go there, can you go here, asking them,
working with the riders, say, can you receive your medical care here.
Working with the doctors could be a way to reduce some of those
costs. And your out-of-county costs are very high. That is a fact.
Page 80
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Are you telling us that we have the
authority to tell people, we'll transport you inside Collier County, but
if you want to go outside Collier County, you've got to find another
way to get there?
MR. HOLMES: No, sir. We can work with them --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MR. HOLMES: -- to try to reduce, because Medicaid is a -- they
have to go to their medical appointment. If the doctor says, you have
to go to Naples (sic), and that's where the doctor says they have to
receive that treatment, then that's where they've got to go.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. But that's not a problem. Naples
is in Collier County.
MR. HOLMES: Well, I'm sorry. Sarasota, I'm sorry; it was
Sarasota and Tampa.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And Tallahassee. How many of them go
to Tallahassee to get treatment --
MR. HOLMES: That's a good one, sir. I don't know about that
one.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- and Jacksonville and Orlando?
MR. HOLMES: These would be very good questions to really
get into the details on. That's where we offered earlier to work with
you-all to see how we can reduce some of those out-of-county costs.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah. I think I know why some of these
trips are to the places that I've listed, but -- the people are accustomed
to using free transportation to go wherever they want to go, and that's
a dangerous kind of thing. I don't have that authority as chairman of
this board. I just can't go somewhere without it being approved. So
I'm concerned about that.
And if we don't have the authority to perform a gatekeeping role,
I'm more inclined to cease participating in the program. But if I had
the authority to establish priorities for transportation and take people
where they really, really need to go, then I'd feel more comfortable
Page 81
March 27, 2012
with the program. But thank you.
MR. HOLMES: The gatekeeper -- I would say you have the
authority to tighten the gatekeeping role from where it may be,
because that's exactly what a provider will do when they come in. So
you have -- you could probably work through some tightening of that
gatekeeping, which will reduce costs. And so I think there are things
that could be done. But we need to really get into it and work with the
local transit authorities and work the issues, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Thank you very much.
Appreciate it.
Who was first?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Me.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You make an excellent point,
because that is a big drain on the financial portion of the
Transportation Disadvantaged Program with Medicaid. And, you
know, they pay a buck no matter what, but to pay a buck coming and
going to Orlando or Jacksonville is ridiculous.
We had -- a while back there was a young man, maybe more a
boy, who needed dialysis treatments, and he was going over to Miami
every day and, of course, that driver has to wait for the hours that they
take -- that they use for dialysis.
They had family living over there and yet they wouldn't move
over with the family, and they kept going back and forth. And finally
we had to pull the plug on that because it was costing us so much
money that other people --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Bad choice words, pulling the plug.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Sorry about that; sorry about that,
yes. But maybe there's a way we can tighten that up.
You know, nothing out of the county or, you know, nothing
further than 50 miles or something like that. I don't know if we can do
that. I think we have to look at other things to explore.
Page 82
March 27, 2012
What concerns me is, if a -- if the private company comes in to
handle the Medicaid program -- now, we service all of the people over
at Sunrise, which is now what, cerebral palsy and down syndrome
people, and they go there every day and they learn how to work, and it
just gives them some social life.
If they don't have that outside, you know -- if they're not able to
get there anymore because it's not a doctor's appointment, they're just
stuck home all the time because they don't -- according to the lady
who runs that program over there, she said most of them are on
Medicaid because they -- you know, they have no way of earning
incomes, and they're not really born into wealthy families. So -- or the
medical expenses have drained them to a point where they're at a very
low income level. So I am concerned about that. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Thank you very much.
MR. HOLMES: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Oh, Commissioner Coletta. Wait a
minute. You get a chance, don't you?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, sir. Thank you very much.
Yeah, if I may, sir, if you could describe to us what exactly are
we mandated to do as a county government?
MR. HOLMES: As part of the Medicaid?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: As far as the system it goes, the
whole program itself. In other words, our own money, our own time,
our own efforts. What are we mandated to do?
MR. HOLMES: If the individual is a Medicaid recipient and
they are going to a Medicaid compensable service, then the county,
through the transportation authority, is responsible for transporting
that individual to and from that appointment.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You know, this is another
example of how the greatest intentions of some individuals have gone
far astray.
This started out as a very simple program that met the needs of
Page 83
March 27, 2012
some people, and it's grown into something that's extremely complex
and very expensive. I don't know why we're in it, not that I don't
believe the service should be provided, but I think it should be
provided by a nonprofit that could do it for a fraction of the cost that
we could.
Is that a possibility that we could assign this responsibility or
contract with a nonprofit agency to be able to carry out these
responsibilities?
MR. HOLMES: Yes, sir. You could contract with a nonprofit --
you as a board could contract with a nonprofit agency, because you
are the transportation coordinator, or you could relinquish that
responsibility, and we would contract with a private provider from the
state aspect. So you do have a couple options.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well -- and I'm concerned about
the private provider from the state aspect who's going to be
profit-motivated, of course, you know, if they're running a business. If
you've got a nonprofit that's out there and you've got the volunteers,
you've got people that are going to produce a product for considerably
less than another provider or a government entity.
I hope that we can take a serious look at finding -- see if there's
some nonprofits out there that could assume this responsibility.
MR. HOLMES: There are some county governments that have
went exactly that route, sir, is to -- since they are the community
transportation coordinator, they have contracted with a nonprofit to
handle the Medicaid transportation; that way they've kept it local, and
they've kept it underneath your responsibility.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And not only do you keep the
cost down, but you restore the passion that should have been in the
program all along.
MR. HOLMES: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you very much.
Page 84
March 27, 2012
MR. HOLMES: Thank you.
Item #11M
A SUBSTANTIAL AMENDMENT TO THE COLLIER COUNTY
2011-12 DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN
DEVELOPMENT (HUD) ACTION PLAN. THE AMENDMENT
ALLOWS COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT
(CDBG) FUNDS OF $775,016 TO BE RE-PROGRAMMED FROM
EAGLE LAKES PARK TO IMMOKALEE SOUTH PARK —
APPROVED
CHAIRMAN COYLE: County Manager, do you think we can
get through 11M before lunch?
MR. OCHS: No, sir, I don't.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: How many people are here for 11M?
That's the elimination of the community park at Eagle Lakes, right?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Careful, you're sitting right next to
me now, and I've got a hammer in my hand.
MR. OCHS: Sir, I think the staff can get through the
presentation very quickly. It's just I don't know how much discussion
you want after that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, let me -- I need to understand.
We've got a luncheon appointment with the youth over at the
Methodist Church. We're having lunch with them at 12 o'clock sharp,
and we've got to do that.
If the staff-- are you opposed to -- can I see the hands of the
people who are going to speak? Okay. Are you opposed to the item
on the agenda? As long as the community park is being funded, are
you opposed to the transfer of monies back and forth? Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Wait a minute. Can we at least get their
Page 85
March 27, 2012
-- get it on the record, please, very quickly?
MS. CASTORENA: For the record, Margo Castorena, Housing,
Human, and Veteran Services.
Commissioners, this item is simply to facilitate the monitoring
requirements for an approved project that was part of your 2011/2012
action plan. The action plan called for funding of a community center
at Eagle Lakes Park.
Because of the area in which Eagle Lakes Park is situated, we
cannot use a more lenient measure, which is the local area benefit.
By shifting these funds to the Immokalee South Park, those
census tracts do, are -- excuse me -- are low -- low-mod clientele and,
therefore, the monitoring requirements are much more lax.
Should you keep this funding at Eagle Lakes, it will require 100
percent eligibility verification; 51 percent of the participants of a
program must be low mod, that is 80 percent of area median income,
and it will only allow for programs that are geared towards low-mod
income citizens.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. But will this item in any way
delay the creation of the community center at Eagle Lakes Park or
reduce the funding --
MS. CASTORENA: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- for that park?
MS. CASTORENA: All we are doing is transferring grant
funding to Immokalee and transferring the funding at Immokalee to
Eagle Parks Lake (sic).
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So it's an equal amount of money
transfer?
MS. CASTORENA: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Will not adversely affect the community
center at Eagle Lakes Park?
MS. CASTORENA: No, sir, it will not; however, I do have the
parks director here, Barry Williams, which can go into detail should
Page 86
March 27, 2012
you need.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I don't want details. I just want yes or no
answers.
MR. OCHS: The answer is no, sir, it will have no adverse impact
on either facility.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. All right. Who was first?
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm making the motion; if I
could finish that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Go ahead and finish your motion.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. I'd like to make the
motion to approve. I thoroughly researched this, and there is no
negative harm to either the park in Immokalee or in Eagle Lake, and I
think this is a very clever way for staff to be able to make our
resources go for the maximum direction to be able to achieve our
ultimate goal.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I, of course, second it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner -- it's a motion by
Commissioner Coletta for approval, second by Commissioner Fiala.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You're going to use impact fees
for the Eagle Lakes Park; is that the flip-flop? Where is the -- where's
the fish flopping at?
MR. WILLIAMS: Barry Williams, Parks and Recreation
Director.
The flop is basically taking Community Development Block
Grant funds associated with Eagle Lakes' community center, placing
them on Immokalee South Park, taking that same dollar amount from
Immokalee South Park 346 impact fees, and putting it on the Eagle
Lakes community center.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Three forty-six.
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
Page 87
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Three forty-six. Now, that's the
total impact-fee fund; is that right?
MR. WILLIAMS: I'm not sure.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Fund 346 is the impact fee --
parks and rec impact fee?
MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, that's correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So they're not dedicated to
Immokalee?
MR. OCHS: No, sir. We don't have them in districts like we do
with your road impact fees.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. But in our AUIR, our
last AUIR, you reported to have a total amount in it of impact fees
unincumbered of$846,000. Is that going to build Eagle Lakes Park?
MR. WILLIAMS: No, sir. And I can show you, kind of, our
plan if you'd like. Just on the visualizer, it's a combination of a variety
of funds, and we've listed those for you. And, certainly, if you have
questions about the different projects that are the funds that we're
pulling these dollars from to create this initial phase, I'd be happy to
answer those.
But they're a combination of impact fees, reserve funds, and
existing funds that we had in a project that exceeded. When we put
the project out to bid, the price came back more than what we could
afford, so we're identifying those funds to build Eagle Lakes
community center.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And these funds either will
become incumbered and available for Eagle Lakes Park?
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. If you approve the action today,
what we'll bring back to you on the 10th is the budget amendments to
make those shifts.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: My last questions. Where are
you going to get the funding to man these two new parks?
MR. WILLIAMS: That's a very good question. We will bring
Page 88
March 27, 2012
forward our proposal to do that. We're looking at the projects to be
completed by Fiscal Year 2014. And so we don't -- we don't have
them budgeted in next year's budget cycle for '13; we're looking at a 5
percent cut. But we would look to either use existing resources that
we have, stop doing something within the department in order for us
to staff, but hopefully what we would be able to do is to identify
additional funding to fund those FTEs.
For Eagle Lakes community center, we're looking at
five-and-a-half FTEs. For Immokalee South Park, we're looking at an
additional one-and-a-half FTEs in 2014.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I guess that's a real concern now
that you have identified the funds, is how you're going to staff that.
And I know that, you know, the people in East Naples and Immokalee,
instead of going to a park in that community, they'll be going to this
new facility.
So is there any commitment to take those FTEs from the area
being served?
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. In fact, in Immokalee we have
positions funded in FY12 and, we'll carry those forward in FY13. We
won't hire those positions, but we'll keep that funding intact, and we'll
use that to support the Immokalee South Park.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's the same thing in East
Naples then, right?
MR. WILLIAMS: East Naples, that's what we'll look at. We'll
look and see what we have existing. If we have the ability to shift
existing staff to staff those facilities, that's exactly what we'll do. And
that's what we've done --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: My last question or request.
When you bring back to uncover these funds and dedicate it to east
park, can you identify where the FTEs are going to come from?
MR. WILLIAMS: Absolutely. I mean --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Or maybe at construction,
Page 89
March 27, 2012
before the construction contract?
MR. WILLIAMS: You'll see these projects at those various
stages, absolutely. That will be part of what we present to you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is where the FTEs are coming
from?
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Barry, thank you for answering
my questions in part. I don't have all the information from you as yet,
and so I'm going to go over what you've indicated to me.
The Immokalee South Park is not in the parks master plan?
MR. WILLIAMS: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And the impact fees in the parks
plan in the AUIR were never allocated to South Park?
MR. WILLIAMS: That, too, is correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Let me continue. Just -- let's
confirm those statements.
MR. WILLIAMS: True.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Now you're saying that South Park
needs renovations?
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: First of all, what are the
renovations? And by the way, where is this -- where is South Park?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It's in Miami Beach.
MR. WILLIAMS: There is a South Park there. South Park is --
it's a unique park. It's -- you know, it's like a neighborhood park. It's
behind the casino, in essence, off of Immokalee Road when you're
coming into town. And it's, you know, served -- it serves the
neighborhood surrounding that area. It's predominantly
African-American children that attend this community center. This is
the community center as it exists now.
Page 90
March 27, 2012
This is actually a modular home or modular, rather, that we
purchased from the school board many years ago, and it's in dire need
of replacement, honestly. It's -- it is -- this is actually a better picture
than its current status. This was three years ago that we took this
photo.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: This is a park, or is this the
community center?
MR. WILLIAMS: It's a drop-in center now. We have kids that,
after school, they'll drop in, do their homework.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And is this part of the Indian
reservation, or is it on county property?
MR. WILLIAMS: No. This is county park property, yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So you're proposing to take -- to
tear down this building and put up a new building?
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am. Get rid of that and never speak
of it again and put a facility there.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Now, I'm going to go back to my
earlier questions that you answered. The impact fees have not been
dedicated to this project, and this project was not in the AUIR and was
not in the parks master plan.
So this is not a flip-flop. So where are these impact fees coming
from? Because Commissioner Henning properly pointed out there is a
very small balance of unincumbered impact fees. Is that what is being
pulled over to this Eagle Lakes project? Because I don't see a flip-flop
here.
MR. WILLIAMS: Well, let me take you back to the -- let me
just take you back to this slide, if I could.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, I'm not concerned with
Eagle Lakes. What I'm concerned about is the impact fees, and that
was the unanswered question that I received or that I have not
received back from Leo.
MR. WILLIAMS: I understand. And I put another slide on. I
Page 91
March 27, 2012
was putting the Eagle Lakes slide just for contrast.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS: But the Immokalee South Park project, with
the shifting funds, you can see this is the dollar amount that we have
associated with it.
The shifted CDBG funds are grant funds. In previous
discussions, that funding would have been the ad valorem funds
associated with it. We also have another grant associated with this
project. It's an economic development initiative grant that we received
back in 2007. Mario Diaz-Balart assisted us in acquiring those funds,
and that's also for construction. And then park impact fees, there's a
remaining balance of-- when we make the switch, the monies that we
had associated with the original project that we're moving to Eagle
Lakes, we're only switching the 775,016 that's associated with
Community Development Block Grant, so that's leaving --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's not a question, though. I
appreciate this analysis, but that isn't my question. My question is,
where are the impact fees coming from that you're moving over to
Eagle?
MR. WILLIAMS: They're associated with the project,
Immokalee South Park now, and 775,000, and they would be --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But that wasn't in any of the
budgets that we've seen.
MR. WILLIAMS: It's been in --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It wasn't in the AUIR, it wasn't in
the parks plan.
MR. WILLIAMS: AUIR deals with acquiring park land. It
doesn't -- it doesn't --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, I'm telling you it's not in any
of the documents. It's not in any document.
MR. WILLIAMS: It's been in your budget since 2007.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: For this project?
Page 92
March 27, 2012
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. Well, that's one of my --
well, then -- and so 775,000 in impact fees have been earmarked for
this project since 2007?
MR. WILLIAMS: At least that. Maybe even -- maybe even
several years before. I think -- I'd have to go back --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And in this year's budget, 775,000
was earmarked for this project?
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am. I can certainly find that for you.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But it wasn't in the parks plan?
MR. WILLIAMS: It was not included in the parks master plan.
The parks master plan looked at future community regional parks that
needed to be built. This was an existing park location.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So the master plan never
contemplated renovations?
MR. WILLIAMS: The master plan's focus was on building new
community and regional parks that were --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Are there other renovations we
don't know about?
MR. WILLIAMS: Well, there's an expansion -- I don't know, to
answer to the question if you don't know about them. But Max Hasse
expansion is one, you know, where we're renovated or expanding that
facility due to, you know, the size.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And that's going to be paid for by
impact-fee funds also, and those impact-fees funds have also been
incumbered for that project?
MR. WILLIAMS: No. Actually, ma'am, that's also in this year's
budget. It was in last year's budget. It is a combination of funding
that we received from the Golden Gate Estates Land Trust and 306
dollars to make that expansion. And that --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can you get the copy of the budget
that shows me where these impact-fee funds are allocated to this
Page 93
March 27, 2012
project?
MR. WILLIAMS: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Because that was the unanswered
question that I received -- or that I had outstanding.
MR. WILLIAMS: Absolutely, we can get that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Could you call the two public
speakers, please.
MR. MITCHELL: The first speaker is Bob Murray.
MR. MURRAY: I'm sorry you're going to be delayed to speak
with the children.
Good afternoon. I'm sorry that we're getting -- well, perhaps it's
the appropriate thing to get into a lot of these details, but I can only
say this with regard to my interest. And today I represent the East
Naples Civic Association and an awful lot of young families in both
East Naples, and, quite frankly, I think I can also speak for the folks in
Immokalee, that the advantage to allowing these funds to be changed
will permit both facilities to be, in one case, rebuilt or restructured,
and another one built for the first time.
I think that it's important, obviously, to go through all the details,
but we still have to think about the prize that results from this, and it
has to be weighed against the details, and hopefully we'll see a
positive result. And those issues really are the questions of those
young families, those children who, today, have no place to go in the
case of East Naples, and they need a place to go, otherwise, they
become more available to crime.
There are gangs out there seeking to enlist these kids. Any time
our community, whether it be our government or other forms, any
time people can come together and provide a space where they can
help the children see the positiveness of our society and avoid the
negative, we are achieving the result for the future.
They can get education, they can be busy during the summer
when they're off, they can achieve a certain amount of social
Page 94
March 27, 2012
appreciation for their fellows. Some things that will not be happening
when they're enlisting in a gang and they're learning to be alienated
from the rest of society.
I wouldn't even dare to try to talk to the particulars of this. But I
can tell you that, please, when all is said and done with regard to the
particulars of the money here and the money there, keep in mind the
prize.
And this -- these will not be built until a couple of years from
now. We are now beginning to come out of the economic downtown.
There will be money available, and you have to appreciate what the
prize is: The children, the families, the future, of our community.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I comment on what Mr.
Murray said?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Do you have to?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yep.
Mr. Murray, thank you for your remarks. I agree with you 100
percent. And my concern is that you're not in a position down the
road where someone says that the money isn't there, and that's my
concern. That's why I want to make sure we know the source of funds
where you're giving up the CDBG funds, that what it's replaced with
will actually be forthcoming when the time comes that you need it.
And that -- those -- that's why I have a concern.
Because you, right now, know that you will have those CDBG
funds and that you do qualify for them. And the reason I'm concerned
is because we had a lot of discussion here when Commissioner Fiala
was fighting so hard to get this community center for you, and staff
told her she couldn't get it because there were no impact fees funds
available to pay for this park.
And now staff is telling me today that they've had this money
incumbered for this other product since 2007. Well, what I'd like to
know is why they've kept Commissioner Fiala waiting so long when
Page 95
March 27, 2012
this money has been sitting there all along, and they represented to her
that the only way she could get this project funded was with a CDBG
grant.
So I want absolute assurances that she is going to get what she
was promised. And I'm really concerned about what has come out
today, because what I'm hearing is that Commissioner Fiala could
have had her community center a long time ago.
MR. MURRAY: Commissioner, I appreciate your indignance.
And I was not directing my comments --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, I know.
MR. MURRAY: -- to you, simply because you were raising the
issue.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right. And by the way, your
comments are great. I just want to make sure you understand why I'm
concerned, because I am concerned.
MR. MITCHELL: The next speaker is Ken Drum.
MR. DRUM: Good morning. I don't want to take a lot of time.
Obviously, I am 100 percent in agreement with Mr. Murray.
The only comments that I would make -- and I don't want to get
into the details -- is that the overriding comment is we need the
building. We need the park. Now, how that happens is, in part, why
you're elected, to make these decisions. I would only say that our
community has had kind of a poor history in dealing with the parks
and rec.
We had the incidents at -- or the proposal at Manatee Park, which
that created -- I think there was a soccer league that -- from Miami that
was going to play there.
In Lely Resort there was a proposal to build an amphitheater
which would have been pretty much out of character with the rest of
the community.
Now we have this problem of getting a building which at one
point was all -- touted almost as like a shelter house where there
Page 96
March 27, 2012
would be nobody there. It just would be placed in case it rained. And
that's not really what's needed.
My point in all this is this: That going forward, no matter how
this thing is funded, I'd like to see a little more interaction with the
community. Nobody's ever talked to us about -- in the organizations
that I've been in about any kind of plan for the parks. We're always in
a position of having to react. So if in the future we have new
leadership there in the parks and rec, I'd like to see that the community
is involved a little bit more.
And Mr. Henning's right, we had a library that opened and with
no books. And, you know, some consideration has to be given to, you
know, how it's going to operate once it's built.
Thank you.
MR. MITCHELL: Sir, that was your last speaker.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You could turn my light off.
I'm ready to vote.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, good.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll leave comments --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: How about the other two commissioners,
you still want to talk some more?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I was just going to make one
comment, but I'll make it very quick. Commissioner Henning was,
rightfully so, asking about where the funding would be for the
operation of the facility, and I would throw in that -- now, in South
Park they already have people working there; fine, wonderful people
out over there working with the kids. The place does need to be
rebuilt. I went over and took a look at it myself, and I can understand
that.
At Eagle Lakes some of the programs can be handled by the
Marco Island YMCA. They're -- they requested and received Winter
Wine Festival dollars, so they can conduct the summer programs
there. We don't have any summer programs now for the children.
Page 97
March 27, 2012
And they'll also conduct after-school programs, and they are happy to
do that, and they've got the dollars to do it. So that's one expense that
we might not have to deal with.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. Just very quickly. Mr.
Drum, you're absolutely right, you do need to have the opportunity to
know what's going on before it happens, and that is why I was
concerned when the master plan was being adopted, that they -- that
staff had not recommended for public hearings. This is why there was
a public hearing at your library. I'd like to ask staff that they notify
the east civic association every time a meeting will be held to discuss
this future civic center so that they have the opportunity to attend,
whether it be parks and recs or if there's any meetings in development
services regarding, you know, the permitting or the construction or the
design, that they have the opportunity to attend any meetings that are
publicly open to them to be apprised of what's going on.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. All in favor of the motion, please
signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: The passes unanimously.
And we are in recess for lunch until one -- roughly 1 :15, plus or .
minus.
(A luncheon recess was had.)
MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, you have a live mike.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, ladies and gentlemen, the Board
of County Commission meeting is back in session.
Page 98
March 27, 2012
We're going to go to 11K.
Item #11K
RESOLUTION 2012-57: RENAMING THE COLLIER COUNTY
GROWTH MANAGEMENT TRANSPORTATION BUILDING,
2885 SOUTH HORSESHOE DRIVE, "NORMAN FEDER
TRANSPORTATION BUILDING". SPONSORED BY
COMMISSIONER TOM HENNING AND SUPPORTED BY 1,023
RESIDENTS OF COLLIER COUNTY — ADOPTED
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. That's a recommendation to adopt a
resolution renaming the Collier County Growth Management
Transportation Building, located at 2885 South Horseshoe Drive, the
Norman Feder Transportation Building. The renaming is sponsored
by Commissioner Tom Henning, supported by over 1,000 residents of
Collier County, and Mr. Sheffield will kick this off.
MR. SHEFFIELD: Mike Sheffield from the County Manager's
Office. The County Manager's Office has received an application to
rename the Collier County growth management building. We have
determined that the application is complete, with merit, and complies
with the county's policy for renaming county-owned buildings.
At this point I'll turn it over to the sponsor, Commissioner Tom
Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I'm just a vehicle for
delivering this, Commissioners.
Norm, would you come up here, please.
Norm, being the dedicated leader of transportation for over a
decade, his staff members have diligently seeked signatures to name
this facility after their leader, Norm Feder. If I could have people
from transportation staff stand up, please.
(Applause.)
Page 99
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Norm, this speaks volumes of
your service not only to the citizens of Collier County, but the
dedicated employees in your transportation staff. You've done quite a
bit since you've been here. And I remember the first time you came to
this podium, and you stopped Livingston Road, a four-lane Livingston
Road, and said, we need the capacity of a six-lane, and got millions of
dollars from the State of Florida to make that project happen and
continue that project all the way to Lee County.
Furthermore, seeing the need for an overpass at I-75 -- I'm sorry
-- at Golden Gate Parkway and Airport Road, working with the
mayor, then mayor, Bonnie McKenzie, and city council, you made
that happen. Not only that, it is -- it has to be one of the most
beautiful overpasses in the world, setting the stage for what Collier
County is today.
We do have -- because of public demand, we do have a high
demand for aesthetics. And through your term as transportation
administrator, you have provided that to the citizens of Collier
County.
For many years we've been working on stormwater issues, and
the project that Norm delivered for us was the first project of LASIP, a
very, very intense project that provides a quality of life to people in
East Naples.
You also provided a public transportation system that runs
throughout the whole county of Collier County getting people to their
destination of work and play, and you have started a pathway system
collecting -- or connecting missing links throughout Collier County
and providing greenways for people to enjoy whether on bike or on
foot.
It's a quality of life that you have touched everybody here in
Collier County. And as just one commissioner, I want to thank you
for your dedicated service to the citizens of our great community.
MR. FEDER: Thank you so much.
Page 100
March 27, 2012
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Coletta has something
he'd like to say.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, yes. We admitted a
couple roads that, to me, were very, very important. You came
through big time for me when it came to Immokalee Road going from
951 all the way out to Oil Well. Sir, that was just absolutely
remarkable. Originally plotted to be a four-lane road. Through
discussions, we got to realize that we were undershooting the mark.
You stopped everything, turned it around, got a six-lane road in there
that's tremendously benefitting the people of Eastern Collier County.
Also Oil Well Road, a road that's eventually going to connect
Immokalee to Naples in a meaningful way, a four-lane road that's
going to reach that way that services the community of Orangetree,
Waterways, Valencia Lakes, Ave Maria, and pretty soon, Immokalee,
too.
Sir, from the bottom of my heart, thank you for what you have
done.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I make a motion.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, let's make sure that we've
got the right facility name first.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah. I had just suggested to the county
manager that we should six-lane Horseshoe Drive --
MR. FEDER: That would be appropriate.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- and put a flyover at the intersection
with Airport Road. So -- but, Norm, seriously, you've provided us
with a level of vision that was not fully appreciated by a lot of people
at that point in time, and had it not been for your foresight, we would
have wasted a lot of money redoing things. When we thought we had
plans that would adequately deal with the future capacity, you
Page 101
March 27, 2012
provided the leadership to look beyond that, to understand that the
traffic is going to grow, you were able to identify where it was going
to grow, and you encouraged us to place the emphasis on
accommodating that growth in traffic.
So we are extremely grateful to you for what you've done. We're
proud of what you have done, and we wish you all the very best --
MR. FEDER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- as you hopefully enjoy your
retirement, because you certainly deserve an opportunity to do that.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Now, no more speeches by
commissioners. Commissioner -- I'm kidding, Commissioner Hiller.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Commissioner Fiala probably
wanted to say a few words.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah, Commissioner Fiala wanted to be
first, and then you'll be second.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I was just going to make a
motion --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- but I thought Commissioner
Henning should make it being that it was his idea, so I'm holding back.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Why don't we let the
transportation staff make the motion.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's a great idea. The only thing
is, I'm scared about one thing; what's going to be left for Leo? When
he retires, all the buildings are going to be named.
MR. OCHS: There's a few public restrooms that are still left.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Don't go there, Leo. Don't go
there.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah. There's one up on the beach north
of here, right?
Page 102
March 27, 2012
MR. OCHS: I'm not putting any bids in for that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I comment?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Sure, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I just want to say ditto to what all
these guys have just said. I feel exactly the same way. And I'm really
honored that you're one of my constituents, and I would like to invite
you to join my office as a volunteer and to help me look at these
projects going forward, because you'd be an invaluable resource, and
I'm sure these guys would love to continue to be scrutinized by you.
So I'm giving you the opportunity at no cost to us or to you, and
so please volunteer your time because we really, you know, would
value that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: She just destroyed your future.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, no, on the contrary.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You know, it's all about
selflessness. Now he's moving to that real high.
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, if I might, just quickly, on behalf
of the entire staff thank Norman for his 12 years of very dedicated
service to this county. As I said at his retirement party last weekend,
he's not only been a leader and a visionary, but really a mentor to
many of the members of the management staff and certainly a leader
that's been revered by his own staff.
And as I mentioned to him, there's very few people that I can
think of-- and I've been here for 26 years -- that will be leaving the
type of legacy that Norman Feder is leaving this community. So I've
been proud and honored to serve with him, and we wish him the very,
very best in all of his future endeavors.
Thank you, Norman.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And thank you. I just wanted to say
Page 103
March 27, 2012
a little something also. Thank you for mentioning it before. I
appreciate that.
Norman and I go back to when he was working for FDOT, and I
was president of East Naples Civic, and we were trying to put
landscaping --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That was in 1872.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: He's about right, right around there.
And we were trying to get median landscaping, and Norman actually
helped me get through the process. I didn't know the first thing about
government or FDOT or anything, and he helped me get through that
process, so it was so much fun. When he came onboard here at the
county, about the same time I came onboard. It was like I had an old
pal that I had to work with or that I wanted to work with and I enjoyed
working with. And, Norm, we've had so much fun, so hang around a
lot, okay?
MR. FEDER: I will be.
First of all, I want to thank everybody. It's been quite a pleasure;
37-plus-year career, the last one-third of it here in Collier County, and
I'm going to be staying here. This is my home.
I want to thank everybody on the board, the wonderful things
said and the support throughout 12 years, obviously, the County
Manager's Office, and to the best staff that I could ever assume,
although I need to get them back to work -- assuming you're going to
take this action, because you haven't, so I'm speaking a little bit
prematurely -- which is not unusual, I guess -- is that I appreciate, one,
just the fact that you're taking this action; two, that you didn't name it
memorial; and, three, the fact that one way or another I am sure I will
be back. I may be under a three-minute timeline.
So before I get long here, what I'm going to tell you is I want
Commissioner Coyle to know that I really can be coachable, coached,
and so, therefore, I will follow the three B's; be brief, be brilliant, and
be gone.
Page 104
March 27, 2012
Thank you so much, every one of you. Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR. CASALANGUIDA: If I could make a motion to approve
and get a second from staff.
STAFF MEMBERS: Second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You want a vote from the
commissioner's now?
MR. OCHS: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I think that was apropos, and I'll
support that motion with a first motion.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Motion by Nick Casalanguida and
Commissioner Henning, and seconded by Commissioner Fiala and the
entire transportation staff.
All in favor, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Speak now or forever hold your peace.
Okay. All in favor -- it passes unanimously.
(Applause.)
Item #14B2
THE PURCHASE OF TWO ADJOINING VACANT PARCELS ON
THE CORNER OF SOUTH 1ST STREET AND MAIN STREET
FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE FIRST STREET PLAZA, AS THE
Page 105
March 27, 2012
GATEWAY ENTRY AND PUBLIC REALM PLAZA PROJECT IN
DOWNTOWN IMMOKALEE. THE COST OF LAND
ACQUISITION SHALL NOT EXCEED $245,144.20 — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, that moves us on to your next
time-certain item. It's Item 14B2 on your agenda this afternoon. It's a
recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners, acting as
the Community Redevelopment Agency, Immokalee, approve the
purchase of two adjoining vacant parcels on the corner of South Street
-- excuse me -- South First Street and Main Street for the construction
of the First Street Plaza as the gateway entry and public realm plaza
project in downtown Immokalee. Cost of the land acquisition shall
not exceed $245,144.20.
Ms. Penny Phillippi, your Immokalee CRA Executive Director,
will present.
And, Mr. Chairman, it would be appropriate for the CRA to go
into session now.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Who's the chair? Fiala?
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: I think I am. Am I the chair?
Okay. Will the CRA board please come to order and move on to
this item, which is No. 14B2, Penny Phillippi.
MS. PHILLIPPI: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Penny
Phillippi, Executive Director of the Collier County Community
Redevelopment Agency in Immokalee. And we're very happy to be
here today, staff and the Citizens Advisory Committee, to talk about
making one of our visions a reality in Immokalee. We've been
working on this project since 2009.
This is the purchase of two parcels adjoined at the corner of First
Street and Ninth Street, and the total cost of the purchase is
$245,145.20 (sic), and the listed costs are on the overhead at this time.
Also they're listed in your executive summary.
The purpose of this land is to implement the objectives or begin
Page 106
March 27, 2012
implementation of the objectives of the public realm plan that was
approved by this board back in 2010. We want to create a theme that's
-- that showcases our cultural diversity, we want to incorporate that
theme into streetscapes, gateways, and way finding concepts, we want
to create public plazas for social activity that integrate the design
theme, and we want to develop design guidelines consistent with that
public realm and for future development in our downtown district.
The elements of the theme, as you know, run the gamut in
Immokalee from the agrarian to ranching. The cultural influences are
Central and South America and Native American, South Central
Florida, and the Caribbean.
The plazas -- as you know, the first land purchase was at the
corner of Ninth and Main Street, and connecting to that downtown
district will be this plaza at the corner of First and Main. So it's step
one of that.
What we hope to do there is put a street level plaza with a
fountain, and we're hoping the fountain can be fashioned like our
trademark that we've developed for Immokalee. We're going to have
gateway columns as any entryway into town. We're going to have an
art wall on either side of the raised platform, some bollards that are
decorative, and hopefully a rain garden around the perimeter.
We have 65 full-grown crate myrtles that have to be removed
from our Main Street, and we're hoping to use those as the backdrop
on here.
And since we only have about a half a million dollars to spend on
the actual construction of the project, we won't be able to do all of the
beautiful inlaid work that was in this beautiful concept that was built
for us, but we do have a gentleman who has a manufacturing industry
in Naples who's offered to donate a great deal of the Italian marble or
Italian tiles, I guess they are.
So this is the concept that we were talking about. And, again,
we're going to have to use grass initially because -- because the cost
Page 107
March 27, 2012
would be exorbitant to do the pervious paving. And that's basically
what we're purchasing these two parcels for.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Coletta?
Oh, I'm sorry.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: And I'm -- I didn't even notice.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Hit my fingers.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: You should hit me; I forgot.
Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, if I'm going to be the first
commissioner to speak, I'd just as soon wait until after we've heard --
you have some speakers?
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: We have five speakers.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Could I wait till after?
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure, sure.
Would you call the first speaker, Ian.
MR. MITCHELL: Yes, Commissioner. The first speaker is
Magda Ayala.
MS. AYALA: Good afternoon. My name is Magda. I have been
a resident of Immokalee since 1960. I would like to use some of Tom
Henning's words that he just used for the previous one where we
would like something that is aesthetic. and we would like some
greenways, and we would like the same that everybody else would
like. I'm here in support of these plazas.
At this point this -- these two pieces of land have been there and
vacant for as long as I can remember. It's right at the entryway to
town, and they're empty. It's an empty lot. To have this done there
would be great for our community, great for the people that use this
thoroughfare, and to not have it would just mean that it's an empty,
vacant lot that, as you approach Main Street, that's what we get.
We have -- our Main Street isn't a typical Main Street. I mean,
we have everything there. We even have a homeless shelter. So if
you can approve a homeless shelter, I would think that we would like
Page 108
March 27, 2012
something that's aesthetic so that it doesn't seem like, that's where
we're going to.
Please consider doing this for our town, for our people, for me,
for my daughter, for my grandchildren, so that they can have
something that is nice. Thank you.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Next speaker?
MR. MITCHELL: The next speaker is Fred Thomas, Junior.
MR. THOMAS: Good morning, Commissioners. Good
afternoon, I'm sorry. Getting old.
I support this tremendously, and you've got to see the true value
to help us bring more tourism to this part of South Florida.
When you go to Haiti, you want to see Haitians, Haitian art, et
cetera; Puerto Rico, you want to see that, okay. Now you're going to
have a chance to have a plaza just like the rest of Central America that
is enhanced by the multicultural population that we have out there.
We've already got a beautiful facade down at our CMA, you
understand? And we hope to make this a place where you can go, like
we used to say in the old days, a bus man's holiday to the Caribbean,
and that will help Immokalee become a more flourishing community,
a tourist destination point.
Because if you think about it, there's nothing you want to do on
vacation that you cannot do within two hours and 15 minutes of
Immokalee except snow ski. Everything else you can do: Hunt, fish,
scuba dive, ice skate, roller skate, golf; everything except snow ski.
And you give us a little time in Immokalee, and we'll do what they did
in Dubai, and you'll be able to snow ski there, too.
So help us with this plaza to get it started. Thank you.
MR. MITCHELL: The next speaker is Pam Brown.
MS. BROWN: Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is
Pam Brown, and I've lived in Immokalee all my life.
I think that the concept that we have here is basically good, but
my concern is that we have had the property at Ninth and Main for
Page 109
March 27, 2012
two years now, and nothing's been done on that piece of property, and
now we're going to put, I think, equipment for the stormwater master
plan for the next nine months. So it would be nice to know when this
is going to happen and where is the funding going to come from.
Thank you.
MR. MITCHELL: The next speaker is Clara Ayala.
MS. CLARA AYALA: Good afternoon. My name's Clara
Ayala. I actually own the property that we are talking about today.
My parents have owned the property for, I don't know, probably
over 20 years, maybe. I'm thinking; I'm not accurate.
But it's been vacant. We tried to get some approval before to put
a commercial building there; it didn't go through. I had an opportunity
to sell this property to another person that -- I don't think it would
service the community as much as this park would. I strongly -- I
weighed -- I could have taken the contract; I did not because I think
that this park is necessary for our community. It's a corner where
everyone can come. I remember growing up at the old park. The old
park is too far out of town now for people to walk to. It's still there,
but it hasn't been used.
This would be the perfect place for the vision that the CRA has.
And I just -- it's not on -- on a personal note, yes, I'm standing here on
a personal note, but I'm standing here as a member of the community
for the past 44 years also. And I wish that there would have been
something like this for myself, and for my son as a child, and I hope
that it gets approved for that reason so that the children growing up
now will be able to enjoy it with their parents. Thank you.
MR. MITCHELL: The next speaker is Gloria Padillo.
MS. PADILLO: Good afternoon. How are you?
My name is Gloria Padillo, and I've lived in Immokalee all my
life. I've been through going to the old park; I grew up there. Our
Easters were there with all my extended family. And when I saw this
plan come up a couple of years ago, I was really excited for that
Page 110
March 27, 2012
because -- I mean, look at this. Look at this colorful -- how it is.
Imagine having an Easter egg hunt there. Imagine me celebrating my
30th anniversary there because of all the cultural that's going to be
there presenting our culture in Immokalee.
And I love Immokalee. Immokalee is my home. I've had plenty
of chances to move out to Naples, to wherever, but I chose to be there,
because that is my community. I want to see my community be
beautified.
And the job that the CRA has done here is wonderful, and I
please -- ask you to please support our plan and approve the plan
today.
Thank you.
MR. MITCHELL: Commissioners, that was your last speaker.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you; Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes.
And thank you all for coming such a great distance to be here to
speak before us today.
This is basically just a straight-up real estate deal. If I'm not
mistaken, the seller has agreed to accept the appraisal numbers; is that
correct?
MS. PHILLIPPI: That is correct.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It's a vision of the community
that's been around for a long time. I've never heard anybody speak
against it.
And with that, I'd like to make the -- it would be my pleasure to
make the motion to approve this.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Second? I'll second that.
Thank you.
I think I'm next up to speak. I have my button on even though
I'm not the -- well, I am the chairman.
One of the things I think every community needs is a town
center, a place where people can go and meet and greet, sit on the
Page 111
March 27, 2012
benches and talk with one another as they go by. That unites a
community, and this is exactly what you're trying to do here through
the CRA, and that's so important to a community to have a place they
can call their own. The people can meet and greet.
And, you know, even with the City of Naples, everybody wants
to go downtown, right, to the town center, if you will. So I am solidly
behind it. And, you know, the money will come. You can't do
everything at once, so at least you'll have the land now so that when
you get grants -- or some people want to donate large amounts of
dollars. You can use it to keep building it up, and we'll be able to
watch it grow.
Okay. Commissioner -- who is next? Henning was next, okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We're buying a partial lot, a lot
and a partial lot; is that correct?
MS. PHILLIPPI: It's two parcels together. There are two
separate parcels. They're both owned by Clara Ayala.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. We're not buying a
partial lot? We're buying two lots.
MS. PHILLIPPI: Two parcels. They're two lots. It's one -- that
one corner.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Well --
MS. PHILLIPPI: Between Lucy's Hair Salon and Mimi's Piñata;
that entire corner there.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Do you have an exhibit? Maybe
my exhibit is different in my packet than what you have.
MS. PHILLIPPI: No. I may not have brought that exhibit with
me. I did bring the agreement, but I -- oh, yeah, I have it here. One is
one -- .15 acres, and the other is .43 acres.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The .43 acres is not a part of a
parcel? We're not splitting a parcel?
MS. PHILLIPPI: No.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Because what I have in
Page 112
March 27, 2012
my book, it looks like the neighboring property structure is right on
the property line.
MS. PHILLIPPI: No. On one side it's Mimi's Piñata, and the
other is Lucy's Hair Salon, which is a brand new development. So
there's nothing on the lot at all.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: All right. Maybe it's a lot lines
that are coming from the property appraiser's that was overlaid.
MS. PHILLIPPI: Perhaps.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm getting some shaking of
heads.
MR. OCHS: Commissioner, would you like Ms. Mott to address
that?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You know, my only concern is
-- my only concern is if we're -- and we're not. If we were splitting a
lot, are we making nonconformities? Obviously we know that there
are nonconformities in Immokalee. I just have a concern about
making more.
MS. MOTT: For the record, Toni Mott, Real Property
Management.
The lines, as Commissioner Henning has pointed out on the
Property Appraiser's Office, are incorrect. We have verified that with
the property appraiser's staff that they should be shifted to the south.
So we are not splitting a lot. What we're purchasing are full parcels.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Then we're not creating
any nonconformities then because they're vacant lots?
MS. MOTT: That is correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: And, Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. You know, you've got a
depiction here, and Ms. Ayala made a comment that she was not
allowed to use that -- her parcel for commercial development, and yet
you've got these commercial buildings surrounding this plaza that
Page 113
March 27, 2012
people are hoping will be the future reality.
How does the zoning allow for this? Because -- and, quite
frankly, what I would really like is to have a photograph of the current
site put up on the overhead so we can see what it looks like now and
how it's going to be converted into what's being proposed.
MS. PHILLIPPI: I don't have a picture of the current site. It's a
vacant lot with a foot path running through it. That's all that's there
right now.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, I want to know who the
neighbors are.
MS. PHILLIPPI: Lucy's Hair Salon. As you face it, Lucy's Hair
Salon to the right; Mimi's Piñata to the left.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And how are you going to, with
Lucy to the left and piñata to right, create what you've got in this
depiction here? Because I don't see how you're going to do what
you're proposing to do based on what you're saying. But without a
photograph, it's difficult for me to judge.
MS. PHILLIPPI: Well, Lucy's sits right here, and this is First
Street. So this --
MR. OCHS: I'm sorry.
MS. PHILLIPPI: Oh, sorry.
MR. OCHS: Penny, if you'll allow me, I'll put this aerial up that
our real property staff has.
Mr. Leonard can point out the two lots that are being acquired
here; please, Roosevelt.
MR. LEONARD: For the record, Roosevelt Leonard, Real
Estate Appraiser.
MR. OCHS: Just use that hand-held mike, if you don't mind.
Just turn it on.
MR. LEONARD: Okay. For the record, Roosevelt Leonard,
Real Estate Appraiser.
If you look at the lot that's highlighted in yellow, that is one
Page 114
March 27, 2012
parcel, and the other lot is directly underneath it. So that contains the
acreage that Ms. Penny is looking to acquire.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Both those, the yellow and the
black?
MR. LEONARD: Yes, right.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So basically that whole rectangle?
So where are these commercial buildings going to be, and this
archway? I mean, you've got a rendition here that people have bought
into. I want to know where, physically, on this property are you going
to have these -- you know, this entryway, you know, these arches and
this wall and these buildings, because I'm not sure that the zoning
would allow for that based on the size and --
MS. PHILLIPPI: Can you go back to the other?
MR. OCHS: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I mean, where -- who's going to be
doing what you're describing?
MS. PHILLIPPI: The conceptual design that you're looking at
with the buildings is the artist's rendition. That is not the construction
plans.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So that's not what's being
proposed?
MS. PHILLIPPI: We're not going to put up those buildings at all.
As you see this one, on this -- I think I can use this as a pointer.
Back here is Lucy's Hair Salon already; that already exists. This
is pretty much a vacant area here. And then Mimi's Piñata is right
here.
As you drive up Immokalee Drive into Immokalee, this is the
first thing that you see on your left. So in this area -- this is the area
we intend to address with this particular grant to put the landscaping
around that back side of it, crate myrtles. But as you know, in the
winter they're pretty much dead or sleeping, and then some colorful
hedges in front of it hopefully engineered to the point that that rain
Page 115
March 27, 2012
garden will irrigate, keep that stormwater from running onto the
streets.
And this is a raised platform. And we're really hoping to get this
done in a -- in the most green way we possibly can without using
invasive products. This is step one of our public realm plan. This is
the lynchpin, I would say, to the public realm plan and what will get
us move down the street.
The art walls that you asked about, in the artist's rendition, they
had an art wall all across the back. We've decided those two short
walls leading up to the platform would be the best placement for those
art walls.
And then in time, you know, perhaps we can have some nice
planters, some benches, those kind of things. We'll do as much as we
possibly can with this particular grant and then seek more funds down
the road to be able to finish it and make it more expansive.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And how much do we have as of
right now?
MS. PHILLIPPI: This grant is $810,000, and we're using
245,000. So approximately 560-something.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So approximately --
MS. PHILLIPPI: Half a million.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- half a million. I think you're
going to have money left over to improve this like this with a half a
million dollars. I mean, I think that's a very generous sum to do what
you're proposing here.
I think the depiction that you had up there, the artist's rendition, is
very deceptive, and I think it's leading people to believe it's going to
look like this, and it's not going to look anything like this at all.
MS. PHILLIPPI: We haven't led anyone to believe that it's going
to look like this. We're very clear. We've been carrying this
conceptual design around for years now showing this to folks.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, I just think it needs to be
Page 116
March 27, 2012
modified, because it's --
MS. PHILLIPPI: And it will be.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I know, but I really -- because, I
mean, I certainly thought that this is what you were going to do, and it
isn't. I mean, you're not going to have any of these buildings back
here. You're not going to have these little archways or whatever that
is, or building, you know, on the other side. I mean, it's not going to
look like this.
MS. PHILLIPPI: Not exactly, no.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Not even close.
MS. PHILLIPPI: We'll put it out for a design build, and we'll
have the design completed.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And I'm also really concerned
about what Mrs. Brown brought up. Where are you? Okay, yeah.
You said that the other lot was acquired two years ago?
MS. PHILLIPPI: Yes, it was.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And why aren't we improving that
lot? I mean, if we've already got the money, why aren't we taking that
CDBG money and improving a lot that we already acquired?
MS. PHILLIPPI: I thought you understood. This was a grant we
applied for in 2009. The money was given to someone else, and then
they came back to us and said, you were second choice, so we're going
to relook at your grant.
This was a grant that we applied for some time ago. And as soon
as we see a grant that we can address Ninth Street on, we will.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So why didn't you apply for the
Ninth Street project for funding first since you already acquired the
property?
MS. PHILLIPPI: I didn't own the land; we didn't own the land at
that time.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. But you owned it -- bought
it two years ago?
Page 117
March 27, 2012
MS. PHILLIPPI: Right.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It just -- it seems -- I just -- I have
some concerns about it. I can appreciate where -- if the community
wants a park, that that's what you're trying to do. But if you've already
made an acquisition and we've got a piece of land now at the other end
of Main Street that is being used to store, you know, stormwater pipes
MS. PHILLIPPI: I have to speak to that, if you don't mind.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Sure.
MS. PHILLIPPI: I know we have a contract with Higgins, and
we're allowing him to use it. But evidently he was so upset over all
that went on, he's not storing anything on that property. And, in fact,
we've got those huge pipes down the streets in front of people's houses
rather than stored properly.
So, no, no one --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Are they allowed to do that?
MS. PHILLIPPI: -- is storing anything on the Ninth Street Plaza.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Leo, are they allowed to store
pipes along streets like that?
MS. PHILLIPPI: In the right-of-way.
MR. OCHS: They have a right-of-way permit for temporary use
for that purpose, ma'am. That's not unusual in a construction zone.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: All right.
MS. PHILLIPPI: So no one is using the Ninth Street Plaza. I
assure you, as soon as we get a grant, we will address the Ninth Street
Plaza as well.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I mean, when you do your
budgeting, couldn't you somehow divide the -- I mean, 500,000 is a lot
of money, or 550,000 is a lot. Isn't there any way you could improve
both lots concurrently to get this done?
MS. PHILLIPPI: Well, we could have. We have a contract --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You know, I just think it's a very
Page 118
March 27, 2012
rich budget, because it, you know, it seems like a very simple
improvement.
MS. PHILLIPPI: Well, we have a contract. We have an
agreement with CDBG to execute that contract. And, I mean, there's
another CDBG cycle coming up. We can certainly apply for that one.
But we have to do what we said we're going to do when we applied
for the grant.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Could you not amend the grant?
MS. PHILLIPPI: I will. I will have to amend the grant to amend
the budget, but first I would like to be able to put this out to bid, find
out what is it going to cost to get done what we want -- as much as we
can get done on this particular plaza.
I would also tell you a couple other things. The American
Planning Association are having their conference in Naples in
September, and we were extremely flattered that they called and said,
can you provide us with a tour of Immokalee? Yes, we would love to
provide you with a tour of Immokalee.
And so one of the first things the whole American Planning
Association are going to see as they drive into Immokalee, hopefully,
will be this linchpin for our town center as we tell them about our
public realm plan and what the future is for Immokalee.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Is this really going to be the town
center, or is this one of the bookends of Main Street?
MS. PHILLIPPI: It is both, both of those things.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It is both?
MS. PHILLIPPI: Both of those things, I would say, and I think it
will be a beautiful asset for the community. You know, 1.7 million
people come to Immokalee every year to that casino. And we really
do need to start letting them see what's in Immokalee so they can be
willing to get off the bus.
The casino told me they feed -- that they get buses with 900
people a day. They can't even serve those folks. And we have
Page 119
March 27, 2012
wonderful cafes and restaurants. Once we start opening up to those
tourists that are coming into town, we really have a lot to offer them.
And I think these kinds of things make it more welcoming and
comfortable for people from Michigan or Wisconsin or wherever
they're coming from. But 900 people a day, and we do need to be a
bit of an exhibition place in Immokalee. We have a lot of company.
I also want to say one other thing about Clara Ayala, because it
really gave me cold chills when she was talking, because very recently
-- we almost didn't get this parcel because she was offered a contract
by a business that, if she would have sold it to them, would have put
two businesses on either side of this plaza out of business, and these
are local businesses that have been there thriving for some time.
So when she looked at this and said, this is something that the
community needs, this is something we really want, she made a
financial decision not only for herself and her family, but for those
other two businesses that were sitting on the corner. And I think that
speaks very loudly to how the people who live in Immokalee feel
about this public realm plan and moving forward.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: I think so. And I think also you're
going to have some naming opportunities. People can buy benches or
fountains or whatever and put their name on it. You know, Seminole
Indians are supporting this or something.
And with that, I have a motion and a second. Any further
comments?
(No response.)
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign.
Page 120
March 27, 2012
(No response.)
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Thank you. That passes.
MS. PHILLIPPI: Thank you.
MR. THOMAS: Thank you very much.
Item #14B3
THE BAYSHORE GATEWAY TRIANGLE AND IMMOKALEE
CRA'S 2011 ANNUAL REPORTS: FORWARD THE REPORTS
TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND CLERK
OF COURTS FOR PUBLISHING THE PUBLIC NOTICE OF THE
FILING — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, we're still with CRA items. The
next one is 14B3. That's a recommendation that the Collier County
Community Redevelopment Agency review and approve the
Bayshore/Gateway Triangle and Immokalee CRA's 2011 annual
reports for the reports to the Board of County Commissioners and
Clerk of Courts and public -- excuse me -- and publish public notice of
the filing.
This item was moved from the consent agenda at Commissioner
Hiller's request. And both your CRA executive directors are present.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'd like to request that they both be
presented in full.
MR. JACKSON: David Jackson, Executive Director of the
Bayshore/Gateway Triangle CRA.
These two annual reports were presented to you in January in the
joint meeting with the CRA board and the advisory boards. You have
seen both of these reports. They were both given to you in January.
This is the formality of advertising it in the public and the
newspaper and giving it to the Clerk of Courts.
Remember, this is a report that you, as a CRA board, give to
Page 121
March 27, 2012
yourselves as the Board of County Commissioners. It goes nowhere
else. We take them and make them a marketing piece, along with all
the data that we have.
So you have already heard this prior. I don't know that we need
to go and give a full presentation again. Each of our presentations
were 30, 45 minutes long.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: I have a motion to approve and a
second.
Do we have any speakers, Ian?
MR. MITCHELL: No, ma'am, we don't have any speakers.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine. Any discussion from
commissioners?
(No response.)
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Very good. It passes 5-0.
Item #14B4
SELLING TWENTY-THREE (23) CRA OWNED VACANT LOTS
WITHIN THE BAYSHORE/GATEWAY TRIANGLE MIXED USE
DISTRICT OVERLAY IN ACCORDANCE WITH FLORIDA
STATUTE 163.380 AND BRING BACK ANY OFFERS DEEMED
TO MEET THE TERMS OF THE PROPOSAL FOR REVIEW AND
Page 122
March 27, 2012
APPROVAL - MOTION TO CONTINUE TO ALLOW STAFF TO
WORK WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO CLARIFY THE
RFP PROCESSES — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Madam Chairman, the next item is 14B4. It was
previously 16B2 on your agenda. It is a recommendation that the
Collier County Community Redevelopment Agency authorize the
CRA director to take appropriate steps to sell 23 CRA-owned vacant
lots within the Bayshore/Gateway Triangle mixed-use district overlay
in accordance with Florida Statute 163.380 and bring back any offers
deemed to meet the terms of the proposal for review and approval.
This item was moved off the consent agenda at Commissioner
Hiller's request.
MS. JOURDAN: Good afternoon. For the record, Jean Jourdan,
Project Manager, Bayshore/Gateway CRA.
I'd like to read into the record, at Commissioner Fiala's request --
there was an addition made to the recommendations. It now reads,
recommendation that the Collier County Community Redevelopment
Agency authorize the CRA director to take appropriate steps to sell 23
CRA-owned vacant lots within the Bayshore/Gateway Triangle
mixed-use district overlay in accordance with Florida Statute 163.380,
and here's the additional language: Inclusive of deed restrictions that
limit the type to residential construction -- mobile homes are not
permitted -- that meet the objectives of the redevelopment plan for
prevention and reoccurrence of slum and blight, and bring back any
offers deemed to meet the terms of the proposal for review and
approval.
Any questions?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. The reason I brought this
forward is because I think the timing for this matter is inappropriate.
The -- Mr. Jackson, you know, has tendered his resignation, and
we, right now, are in the process of waiting for the budget division of
Page 123
March 27, 2012
the county to develop a proposal to put out to the banks to see what
they will do with respect to the loan.
MS. JOURDAN: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So I think it is untimely for us to
be putting these properties on the market right now in light of the fact
that we're in the process of negotiating with the banks and in light of
the change in leadership over at the CRA. I think this needs to be
revisited as to when and how this should be done. I'm not sure that,
for example, using a sealed bid to sell these properties is the right
approach.
So I think that we should continue this item till after we hear
back from the bank or banks and after we have a better understanding
of what is the best way to dispose of these properties with more
consultation with the County Attorney's Office.
So I'd like to make a motion to continue this.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'll second that motion. I think
you're right about that. One of the things I was concerned with is if--
you know, we've got David -- and I don't know who else is working
with you, David -- to see about loans and see if this one can be
extended. I personally feel he's going to be successful at doing that,
and then maybe we won't be forced to sell now. Maybe we can wait
just a little bit longer to do the job right.
So I second your motion.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Any discussion,
Commissioners?
Yes, Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: These properties are not
encumbered by the loan. Is that an assumption by commissioners?
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well --
MS. JOURDAN: You're correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I thought they were encumbered.
Page 124
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HENNING: They're not encumbered.
MS. JOURDAN: No, they are not.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Ciystal, are they encumbered by
the loan?
MS. KINZEL: I don't know.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, the --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I thought all the properties were
encumbered --
MS. JOURDAN: No.
MR. KLATZKOW: But the proceeds go to pay down the loan.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. There's a due-on-sale
clause. I mean, encumbering is not the right word.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: There's a due-on-sale clause. So
are they under the umbrella of the debt? My understanding is that
they are and that basically any proceeds from the sale will go towards
paying down the debt obligation.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So why are we delaying this
again?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: For several reasons.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Because if the bank is willing to
restructure, we don't have to have a fire sale to get rid of these
properties. Essentially what's being proposed right here right now is a
fire sale.
The second issue is that they're proposing an auction, and I'm not
sure auctioning these properties is the right way to go. And I've been
speaking with the county attorney about that, because there are
different ways to see this property.
Thirdly, we're, right now, in the middle of a transition. So if
we're going to start selling these properties at a future point, whoever
will be taking over David Jackson's position should be the one
Page 125
March 27, 2012
working with the county or with the CRA board, if you will, and staff
to develop the best way of disposing of these properties.
MS. JOURDAN: I'm sorry. I would just like to address this.
First of all, this isn't the first time that we put these out. We put them
out in an RFP with no responses to them, the first time. Initially we
did, and that was at the height of the market. And that -- and there
was actually no price, set price on it. We were just getting, you know,
information back from prospective builders who actually wanted them
for nothing, absolutely nothing, and that was at the height of the
market.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: What is it that people do not like
about these properties? What was the feedback you got?
MS. JOURDAN: It was builders. Builders want -- any time they
think something's -- not all builders, let me not stereotype them. But
any time they feel that something's county owned, they feel like they
should get something for nothing. So it's like, oh, we're here to help
you. We're here to help you.
But we have individuals coming in. And the way this is being
done is really -- I wouldn't say it's an auction. The real property
department does it all the time with surplus property, and we're
following their guidelines.
In addition, I've worked with the county for 27 years, almost 28,
and I've done this throughout my entire career. I've worked with real
property. I've worked as a property appraiser. I've worked as a
land-use planner. So I'm more than qualified in order to put these
through.
But I can see your concerns, but I just wanted to put that on the
record.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, the whole CRA is going
through a transition, and we have a lot of pending items, and I think
these pending items need to be addressed so that when we make a
decision to dispose of these properties -- because the perception right
Page 126
March 27, 2012
now will be that these properties are being, you know, sold as part of a
fire sale because of the financial problems that the CRA is facing.
So I would hate to see the property sold for less than their fair
value. And if the banks are willing to work out -- or if one bank or the
bank that we currently have the loan with is willing to work out our
obligation to extend the term, then we would be in a position to put
this on the market without the umbrella of a fire sale hanging over this
whole process. So it's just not timely.
MS. JOURDAN: Oh, yeah, I understand. I don't -- myself,
personally, I don't see it as a fire sale because I feel like, you know,
we are taking -- we have done what we were trying to do and that's,
you know, eliminate the crime element in there.
I would love to see some single-family homes go in there. You
know, if we want to, you know, keep holding off, that's up to you.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, fortunately, you'll have the
opportunity to bring it back.
MS. JOURDAN: Oh, yeah, yeah. Even any type of contract, we
don't have to accept any offer that's given to us.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's the thing. You look
under the recommendations, they have to bring back any contract. So
if we don't like them, we can reject them. And it's not like we're
saying put it on the market, put a price on it, and whatever that price
is, if that -- if an offer comes in at full price, we have to sell it under
the law. This is just saying -- it's an invitation --
MS. JOURDAN: It's putting -- getting it in motion, going to see
what type of interest there is.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, I don't -- I don't think so. I'm
not sure that that's correct. Is that correct? I mean, if they're putting it
out -- if they're putting it out and it's a sealed bid and someone, you
know, makes an offer that matches the price, I think we're obligated to
sell it.
MR. KLATZKOW: You'd have to make it subject to approval
Page 127
March 27, 2012
by the CRA board.
MS. JOURDAN: Yeah, which all contracts are subject to CRA
board approval. We have no authorization as staff.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But the problem is, is even if you
make it subject to approval by the board, if, you know, they are
offering exactly what we're asking --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We're not --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- are we saying we're reserving
the right to deny it notwithstanding?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We're not --
MS. JOURDAN: It would be in the legal advertisement that we
can deny. It's in the backup documentation.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And I'm not even sure that this is
the right way to sell it. I mean, I was speaking yesterday with the
county attorney, and this may not be the optimal means to sell it.
While the county may be selling other properties in this fashion, I'm
not sure that this is the optimal way to achieve what we want to
achieve. And, again, before we hear back from the bank, I would hate
to see any property go for less than it's worth. I mean, we're right now
-- you know, it's a very short time frame.
When was Mark Isackson going to present to the bank?
MR. OCHS: Ma'am, the -- he's going to let the RFP out for the
bank loan refinancing proposal March 30th.
MS. JOURDAN: This Friday.
MR. OCHS: I think that's this Friday.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. So we're so close. I mean,
there's no reason that we can't continue this. It's not going to hurt
anything to, you know, delay it a little bit till we get the feedback.
MR. OCHS: No. Just so you know, we probably won't -- we
told the board, when Mark reported out on behalf of the finance
committee, that he would be back to this board with results from that
solicitation --
Page 128
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Within three months.
MR. OCHS: And, in fact, I believe the finance committee made
three recommendations: Number one, go out and try to refinance the
loan; number two, put a moratorium, if you will, on discretionary
expenditures for the next 90 days; and the third item, as I recalled, was
just to begin to go out and solicit in the marketplace for these vacant
properties to see if we could raise some cash. And then the
commitment was we would be back in front of this board by the end
of May, no later than the first of June, with the results of this.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And I think the idea to sell the
properties is a good one, but not before we know whether or not the
banks will refinance. Because, again, you know, it does put a cloud
over the sale of these properties --
MR. OCHS: I understand.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- and there is -- and we certainly
don't want to be in that position.
MS. JOURDAN: Commissioner, I understand your concerns.
Could -- what I'd like to do is maybe get a recommendation so I can
move forward working with the legal department in doing the
language for the deeds, the restrictions; I want to check into with
housing as far as --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Sure.
MS. JOURDAN: -- what the income levels --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I think that's a great idea.
MS. JOURDAN: -- all those things, and get that ball rolling.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And I'll just add that to my motion,
that this be continued and that you work with the County Attorney's
Office to develop a -- you know, and the real estate division to
develop a disposition plan so that when we are ready to put this all on
the market once we know where we stand with the bank, that we're
able to immediately start liquidating.
MS. JOURDAN: Okay.
Page 129
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you.
MS. JOURDAN: Thank you.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: That will be included in my second.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. I don't have a love for
this item; however, I think there's a misunderstanding on this item. It's
going out for solicitation, bringing it back to the CRA for proposals.
And some of those you might get what you want in the CRA as far as
what kind of structure you want. I mean, you want limitations with --
without having mobile homes. It makes sense in the Coastal High
Hazard Area to have single-family, nonmobile-home type; however, if
you don't put it out in the market, you'll never know.
But if you want to delay that, I'm fine. But I think the whole item
is just a misunderstanding of the staff-- CRA's intent.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: But a question.
MS. JOURDAN: Yeah.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: So say, for instance, somebody
comes in because they just heard all of this conversation going on and
they've been wanting to take a lot and build a really nice home there,
but then they realize there are just mobile home lots, so they would
want to combine two, buy them together to build a really nice home
that would really qualify as upgrading that community. You would
still be able to accept that, right?
MS. JOURDAN: No, I can't accept that until it's actually legally
advertised. That -- yeah, I can't accept any type of offers like that
where someone can come in and ask. That's why -- we've had so
much interest from individuals, you know, oh, I'd love to build my
home here, but we're like, we're sorry, you know; we have to go
through the process, and we have to put it out, you know, in a legal
advertisement. We have to get board approval. So, you know, we
can't do any negotiations whatsoever.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: You mean any sale that comes in,
Page 130
March 27, 2012
you can't take them?
MS. JOURDAN: No.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: It has to go out for bid?
MS. JOURDAN: It has to be legally advertised.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: So that the lowest bidder could get
it, and what you're trying to do is avoid --
MS. JOURDAN: Doesn't necessarily have to be bid. We can put
on there the stipulations and set a minimum price. You set a minimum
price, and then they bid. Then it causes, kind of, more like a bidding
war, so they're like, okay, this lot's for sale. Minimum price is 30,000.
I want this. It's still bid. Someone's going to bid 30, 40, the highest
one, then that's who you negotiate with. Then if you can't come to
terms, you don't go any further.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: I see. Okay. We'll talk again after
this meeting.
MS. JOURDAN: Okay.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We have a motion on the
floor and a second. It was an amended motion, and the second took
that amendment as well.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
MS. JOURDAN: Thank you.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Very good. And I think we're done
with the CRA meeting.
MR. OCHS: Ma'am, I'm sorry. You have one more item under
your CRAs as long as you're in session.
Page 131
March 27, 2012
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
Item #14B1
REVIEWING THE BAYSHORE GATEWAY TRIANGLE CRA
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR'S CONTRACT AND PROVIDE
DIRECTION - MOTION TO CONTINUE UNTIL THE FIRST
MEETING IN MAY AND BRING BACK CONTRACT AT NEXT
MEETING FOR REVIEW — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: That would be Item 14B1 on your agenda. It's a
recommendation that the Collier County Community Redevelopment
Agency review and discuss the CRA advisory board's
recommendation concerning the Bayshore/Gateway Triangle CRA
executive director's contract and provide direction.
MR. JACKSON: Commissioners, David Jackson, Executive
Director for the Bayshore/Gateway Triangle CRA. Good afternoon.
I'd like to make a -- read into the record a short statement and
also to let you know that Steve Main, the Chairman of the Advisory
Board, is here.
My statement is as follows: This topic is about money saved in
2012 and 2013. It's about budgets and fiscal accountability. Be sure
that I've considered all the items required in my deliberations when
bringing this forth to the advisory board and to you; however, also at
play here today is more than money matters. It is about ensuring the
continued operation of the functions of the CRA, to prevent failure, to
prevent riding the slippery slope back into slum and blight.
Today is also about leadership; something I've been charged to
do for this commission and my community and citizens for the last
seven years. My decision to offer my position for termination instead
of firing two or three CRA employees is leadership, responsibility,
and accountability. I don't take it lightly. I take it as a responsibility
Page 132
March 27, 2012
of one who is in a leadership position.
As an example, President Harry Truman had this quote on his
oval office desk: "The buck stops here." This is a recommendation to
terminate in order to save the organization, save years of work put in
by you, the Board of County Commissioners, years of work that the
volunteer advisory board has put in, and also years of work that the
citizens of the area have put in.
Be assured, very assured, it is not because of political pressure
from a political newcomer. It is about all the numbers and the people
in my organization.
I'm taking the approach that a captain of the United States
warship would take: "Save the ship; save the crew." In army terms it
would be: "Save the unit; save the soldiers. Come back and fight
another day." This is a one-person-for-all action, not an
all-people-for-one action.
Many, many people have talked to me. They say they don't want
to see me go. Someone said I was irreplaceable. I am honestly
humbled by their pleas; however, to quote Charles de Gaulle, the
leader of the French Resistance in World War II, "The graveyard is
full of irreplaceable men." The same applies here. The CRA will
continue long after I'm gone.
But I'm confident that this is the right decision at the right time
for the right reason. I am sure there is one or more of you that are
wondering, can the CRA survive and operate as efficiently as it has in
the past. As stated in my memo to the CRA board that is in your
packet, the CRA and MTSU operations will survive this action. The
three remaining members of my team can carry forward the mission
and tasks at hand.
I have full confidence in them to get the job done as if I was
there. They are well trained, responsible, and accountable. They are
the ones who have been doing the work. They will continue to do the
work.
Page 133
March 27, 2012
The community will continue to prosper because of these three
dedicated and competent CRA/MSTU staff members, and they are in
place also to be assisted by your very competent advisory board, as
they have for the last 12 years.
I do say that Steve Main, the chairman of the advisory
committee, has signed to speak if you have any questions of that. I
stand here ready to hear your comments and to hear your support for
this recommendation.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: (Applause.) Well said.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do we have speakers?
MR. MITCHELL: Sir, we've got one speaker.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: It's a ma'am.
MR. MITCHELL: Steve Main.
MR. MAIN: Steve Main. Good afternoon, Commissioners.
As you might expect, as we were, as the advisory board,
evaluating the options that we had before us, none of us was really
thrilled with the prospect of losing David as the executive director. As
you look at what we have and you ran through the numbers, we could
turn back the clock three or four years, perhaps we would have done
some things differently, but we have to deal with what we have now,
and that is a dollar situation.
Everybody talks about the refinance. Well, the fact of the matter
is that if you look at how large the loan is, the amount of years left and
the terms, even if we do get a favorable refinance, it isn't going to help
us that much. So we have to look at the way to attack the big dollars.
And in the case that we had, it was a matter of you've got a chief with
no Indians, or you've got well-trained, capable Indians to carry on
what the chief put in place.
And as we evaluated it at the advisory board meeting, it came
down to there was really no -- there was really no other choice.
Choosing to do it early, we've got -- 2012 is basically paid for. So by
David leaving between now and the 30th of June or 30th of May,
Page 134
March 27, 2012
whichever it works out, that allows us to keep the dollars within this
fiscal year, 2012, and we'll be able to deal with 2013.
We also had an additional employee who departed and was not
refilled. So we have those dollars, too. So it takes care, basically, of
David's severance package and the rest, and it allows you to keep us
all within 2012. And then as we're evaluating the budget here for
2013, we'll be in a much better position to take that on.
We realize the advisory board is obviously going to be taking a
little more active role than we have in the past, and so we're ready to
do it.
We have great confidence in the three employees that are left,
and I hope that you do, too.
Do you have any specific questions about what went on at the
meeting?
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, it looks like -- thank you very
much.
MR. MAIN: Okay. Thank you.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: I appreciate that.
Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. David, you're resigning,
right?
MR. JACKSON: No, ma'am. I did not tender a resignation.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Oh, I see. So you want --
MR. JACKSON: I did not tender a resignation, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I see. So you didn't tender a
resignation, and you want the board to fire you so you can get
severance pay? Because, quite frankly, that doesn't make a whole lot
of sense. Your contract was renewed September 27, 2011, okay. So
we're six months into your contract.
For the board to terminate you and pay you severance would
basically be a complete waste of money on their part because, in
effect, what would happen is, instead of you, you know, working
Page 135
March 27, 2012
through the end of your term and the board getting the last six months
of your contract, they would be paying you to walk away from those
last six months? I don't think so.
No, I think you should be held accountable, and you need to
finish this up. And, quite frankly, you know, feeling the way you do,
when your contract is up, it won't be renewed.
But for this board to pay you to walk away makes no sense at all.
Now, if you're resigning, that would be noble and honorable and the
right thing to do, and if that's what you're proposing to do and if that's
why Commissioner Henning applauded, then I would also applaud
you. But if you think that, you know, you're going to basically walk
away from these problems and get paid for it, then the answer is no
way.
So I'm not sure if that's what you're asking for, but if it is, then I
make a motion to deny.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Dave, welcome to my
world. No good deed's going to go unpunished.
I know what you're trying to do, sir, and it's an issue of survival
of the fittest. And I understand, too, that we have some issues in
motion considering bank loans and extending the loans. I would much
prefer to see you stay aboard at least till we go through that remainder
of the 90-day period we were talking about.
Is that how long it was, Leo?
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And how much more time is
there in that?
MR. OCHS: Well, like I said, probably the end of May would be
the expiration of those notes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. There's a lot of things
that are left undone here. And I think that with you still at the helm,
we could do a great job in trying to pull together what we can of the
Page 136
March 27, 2012
organization, and then dealing with this after the fact, after we get the
90-day report back of what can be done.
Your services have been wonderful. You've done a great job.
You're a victim of this economic situation that's out there in this
world. And I kind of hope you can be persuaded to stay just long
enough to get us through this next part.
MR. JACKSON: Yes, sir. I think me being a victim is not where
I was going. I'm trying to not let two or three of my employees be
victims.
The option, or the recommendation from the advisory board was
to execute this termination anywhere between 60 and 90 days. And
for 90 days that would be the end of June, which would take us
through the full budget series.
The loan RFP that's going out will go out on the 30th of March.
It will be back in the hands of the budget office and purchasing office
on the 27th of April. That gives the full month of May and the full
month of June to work those issues.
The only issues that we have currently going on in the CRA will
-- one of them will be resolved in June, which will be a rezoning of a
17-acre site, and then there was the Land Development Codes, the
overlays, that should be completed sometime this summer.
So other than that, general operations will be going on. We have
no other outstanding projects other than a drainage project in the
triangle area, which should be done by September, October, maybe as
late as November, depending on the rainy season.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And if I may, sir?
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Ma'am, excuse me. I keep
forgetting you're in charge. Put a woman in charge, and there we go.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: There you go.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm just kidding, of course. This
meeting's running a lot smoother than it ever did with either one of us.
Page 137
March 27, 2012
We won't go there.
Before I lose my train of thought, sir, and purely a suggestion. I
mean, I value the services that you gave us. And what I would
suggest -- and as, once again, this is a suggestion. I hope no one takes
offense at it, that we implore you to stay on long enough to be able to
move us forward just far enough so we know to the point we're at and
that there's an orderly transition and that we have a person, who's not
yet designated, negotiate a closeout with you, if that's going to be the
issue of you leaving.
MR. JACKSON: That can be accomplished, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's what I would do. I think
it would be a little more orderly, in fact, and get us -- help us make a
transition.
And maybe at that point in time, we might find that, who knows,
some angel from heaven will descend upon us and bless us in some
way that we could never foresee.
MR. JACKSON: Yes, sir.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. I'm not sure -- what I'm
hearing is, there's not enough money to go around, and there's not an
offer to replace David Jackson. That's what I'm hearing. But, you
know, there's different iterations of the contract within our agenda.
And if I'm reading this right, does it terminate September 30th of
2012?
MR. JACKSON: No, sir. It's 2016 -- or 2015.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: 2015, okay. Prior to that, it was
annual contract, right?
MR. JACKSON: No, sir. It was four years. It was a two-year,
then it was a four-year, and this was a second four-year. And what
we're looking at is to recoup, over the next three years of the contract,
the money that would be spent on my position and fold that back into
either servicing the debt or operations for the CRA.
Page 138
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So it's the -- so it's up to -- the
benefit package would be up to September 30th of 2012, and then the
other years -- I mean, I -- again, I -- there's different parts of the
contract here, so I'm not sure what --
MR. JACKSON: Well, the -- if you're looking at the executive
summary fiscal impact --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. I'm there now. I'll read
that, go ahead.
MR. JACKSON: Yes, sir. In the fiscal impact, it's -- if I stay for
four years, it's pay me now or pay me later. And the option was to --
it's already been budgeted for 2012. So it would be taking me out
early in the year such that it did not impact 2013, '14, and '15.
In those three years, there would be a net gain for the CRA in the
amount of over $400,000, which is salary and benefits over time,
which doesn't even account for the merit package that would be in
there that I've waived for the last four years. The last four years I've
waived over $48,000 in merit package just to keep the thing operating
and moving along.
But -- so, essentially, there is enough money in the package,
along with David Buchheit leaving, and there's $41,000 left in his
salary plus his benefits package, and for me it would be -- to terminate
would be -- with the remainder of the year would be only 20 weeks
and -- of base salary, and then the benefits package would terminate at
the day I leave.
So, basically, if you look at the fiscal impact, there's -- we're
looking to recoup a significant amount of money over the next three
years.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is it -- the lump sum payment
would be 48,000; am I reading that right?
MR. JACKSON: Yes, sir. Approximately, at termination on
May 30th.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: How much?
Page 139
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Forty-eight.
MR. JACKSON: Well, on any date that it would terminate.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Do you agree with that, Jeff?
MR. KLATZKOW: It's a very curious item. He's asking you to
fire him, and if you fire him, he's entitled to severance of 20 weeks'
salary.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Wouldn't he also be entitled to
unemployment compensation?
MR. KLATZKOW: I suppose, ma'am, yes, but that's not here
nor there. I mean --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But it is, because it's a fraudulent
termination. I mean, he --
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, it's not a fraudulent termination,
ma'am. I mean, what he's asking you to do is to fire him.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So he can get severance?
MR. KLATZKOW: That's why he's not resigning.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Where does it say that it's a
four-year contract? Where is --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's in one of the last pages.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you.
David, you know, you made a statement that you haven't
received any increases in pay and have made these sacrifices. That
really isn't true. You have received raises over this time. In fact, your
initial contract, I believe, started out at the same as Penny Phillippi's
and then went to 110,000 and then jumped to 125-. And at the last
modification, the services you were providing for that 125,000 were
reduced because your role as being involved in economic development
was eliminated.
So, in fact, you got a raise that was very substantial because the
services you were providing to the county went down significantly.
You know, this just doesn't -- I mean, it just doesn't smell right.
Page 140
March 27, 2012
Forgive me. I really -- I don't really see what's going on here.
And, quite frankly, you know, your speech doesn't in any way
comport with the discussion we're having now, and I'm really very
disappointed in the manner in which you've brought this forward.
By the way, let me ask you a question. Do you have another
company? Are you doing any work for anyone else while you're
working for the county?
MR. JACKSON: Unequivocally, absolutely not.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay, thank you.
MR. JACKSON: And I'd like to clarify that all your statements
about -- that I said I was receiving raises and all, you are wrong again.
I said that I have not received any merit raises in the last four years. I
did not talk anything about pay increases from COLA, cost of living
allowances, or a renegotiation of contract. So I want to put that on the
record and correct your incorrect statement.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, however you want to
characterize it. The bottom line is you've been getting increasing
sums of money over time and, quite frankly, the services you've
provided have been going down.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: David, I think you've done a great
job for us. It's -- I'm not happy to see you leave, but let me try to cut
through all the details here and get down to the bottom line.
If you were to stay here until September of this year, what would
be the severance package at that point in time?
MR. JACKSON: The same as it is today, twenty weeks.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And if you were to stay here for --
until January of next year, what would be the severance package then?
MR. JACKSON: It would be the same as it is today, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. So delaying anything
doesn't solve a problem. It doesn't reduce the amount of money that
we will pay -- have to pay David. It is certainly clear to me that David
Page 141
March 27, 2012
has been targeted for a long time by at least one member of this board
to encourage him to renounce his pay and take a substantial cut
without compensation, and now that he is willing to do that, much to
my consternation and disagreement, he is being criticized for it.
I think that's unfair, but -- I just think that ought to be on the
record. If I were in David's shoes, I would want to get as far away
from here as I possibly can as quickly as I can.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We could arrange that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Then let's arrange it.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: And I want to hear from Steve
Mains, if I could. The board, they discussed this, didn't they, and how
do they feel? Could --
MR. MAIN: Yes, ma'am, we did. And the way -- as I stated
previously, when we were looking at the dollars and was primarily --
this was a dollar-driven decision. We looked at it, and there's just --
there was no way that we could get towards what looked like our
operating dollars were going to be left once we did the debt service
and all the rest.
So it was either -- you know, the big driver for us was personnel.
So how do you get at it? Well, you get it -- you get the biggest one or
you get it -- you know, you cut on the edges and suffer, you know,
death by a thousand cuts.
So, logically, I mean, everyone -- everyone on the advisory board
-- it was a unanimous vote to do this. When we first started the
discussions, there were two or three. It was like, oh, my God, what
are we going to do? David's going to be gone. And as we looked at it,
we realized there was just no other way, and we really, really have
three very capable individuals in place.
You heard Jean Jourdan. She's got years of experience. We've
got Sue Trone and Lisa. So we've got plenty of Indians left to do the
work. David has built the strategic direction. Those plans were in
place. We finished those programs. We can just drive on. I mean, our
Page 142
March 27, 2012.
big problem is we need to have the real estate side of things pick back
up a little quicker.
You know, going back to an earlier discussion on selling those
properties, I mean, we'd love to have someone come in and say, oh,
look, I want to buy this one right here. But, again, we're hampered by
some regulations that don't allow us to sell those as we go along.
So we just looked at -- the way to get at it was good team in
place, we're going to save the dollars, and if we do it in this year, 2012
-- because 2012's paid for -- we'll be setting the budget for 2013 in the
June time frame. And that's why, as we discussed it with David, we
were looking at his departure probably no earlier than May 30th
because then we knew, all right, we're going to have the results of the
re-fi back in, so we'll know what's going on with that. We thought,
perhaps, we might have the RFP out so some of the properties, we
might have some activity on those.
And, again, if the activity is not what we want, fine, we'll just
hang onto it. We're no worse off than we are right now and, yet, if we
did have good offers, then we'd go ahead and take those, and that
would help to knock the principal down.
So, again, I -- in fact, I used the terms at the meeting. I said, it's
like a poison-pill merger. We had only one way to go, and so this is
what we did.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you so much. I appreciate
that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm next.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And if you would, please, don't
go.
So let me -- I'm feeling very uncomfortable with the word
"termination," I really am. Is it possible we could achieve the same
thing by using "separation by mutual agreement" and still be able to
keep that exit package in place? I'm thinking how it's going to --
Page 143
March 27, 2012
MR. MAIN: I'll be like the guy on TV.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I don't know either.
MR. MAIN: I'm not a lawyer. I don't know what the correct
terminology is. We didn't really know what you could use to allow --
I guess another way to go would be that the advisory board chose to --
you know, we went the option of termination because that's the only
word we knew that was --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, let me ask you this, sir.
MR. MAIN: But if you want to do it that way, that would --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Well, let me ask you
another question, if I may. Now, we're talking about David working
till May 31st; is that what you said?
MR. MAIN: Well, May 30th or June 30th -- I believe in your
packet it says May 30th. But in the discussions that we were having
about this, we knew that the time frame was going to be somewhat
farther out. The difficulty -- the farther out you get -- because of the
20 weeks in there, what happens, the farther out you get, the closer
you are to 2013, the more you are kicking a can down the road in a
dollar issue for next year when, again --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I understand.
MR. MAIN: -- we don't know where we are with appraisals and
all that. We're -- I mean, we made some assumptions on that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So we're looking at May 30th.
The total buy-out at that point in time would be 48-?
MR. MAIN: I believe that's correct, 20 weeks. The number that's
in there is 48,000 --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Forty-eight thousand.
MR. MAIN: -- and change, I think, yes, yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I'll tell you what, all this
man's been through and what the CRA's been through, too, in trying to
come up with a way that's going to mutually benefit everyone -- I
mean, trying to force the man into quitting and walking out the door
Page 144
March 27, 2012
so he gets nothing would be a terrible injustice after all the hard work
that's been put into it, and the fact that he's willing to make the
sacrifice rather -- and I'll tell you, I've never seen this before. I've
always seen them cut the lower echelon of employees out like nothing
ever happened and try to keep trucking right along, so this is
extremely unusual.
I'm going to ask the county attorney, is there anything illegal or
anything you would advise against as far as making a motion that
would say that we recognize Mr. Jackson's employment and, by
mutual understanding, agree to a separation that will take effect on
May the 30th, and the total amount of his severance package would be
$48,000? Is there anything wrong with that wording?
MR. KLATZKOW: Let me do this, because I want to make sure
that whatever action you take the clerk's going to cut a check on. All
right.
His contract specifically provides that in the event director is
terminated by CRA board, the CRA board agrees to pay the director
20 weeks of director's base salary for termination without cause, so
that in keeping with the terms of that paragraph, I think the motion
should be that the CRA board hereby terminates the director without
cause effective whatever date you choose.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: As much as it pains me to do it,
we're not going anyplace. I'm going to make that --
MR. KLATZKOW: But I must also tell you this, though; you
don't know that that balloon's not getting refinanced, all right.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: But it sounds like minds are
made up, and I don't know if pushing this down the road a little farther
is going to make any difference.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, I'm just telling you, if that balloon's
not refinanced, then all those employees are going to be terminated
sooner or later.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And then I'm not making the
Page 145
March 27, 2012
motion until I hear more discussion from my fellow commissioners.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Who was next? Commissioner
Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You know, Commissioner
Coletta, you made a statement I thought was very good. There's a lot
of unknowns about the refinancing. Mr. Jackson has served the CRA
very well and, therefore, that -- we should wait until September until
we find out what -- you know, what's going to happen with the loan,
what's going to happen to property values, valuation and that. Let's not
make a decision on this until a later date.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Can I ask Mr. Jackson if that
would be agreeable?
MR. JACKSON: Commissioners, you'll know what the property
values are on 1 June, which is when you are in the budget process. If
you chose to terminate, I would suggest that it be July 1st or June
30th, to take you through the budget meeting so when the CRA
presents those to the Board of County Commissioners, you can see
where the budget is. You'll also know sometime in April what the
responses to the RFP for bank loan would be.
The further you push my termination into the year, as Mr. Main
has alluded to, you start taking money out of 2013. So I was trying to
preserve the 2013 budget, essentially, and make sure that we knew in
June when we gave you the budget and we knew exactly where we
would be, exactly what we would be able to do based on whether or
not we got a refinance on the loan or not and what our TIF would be
so we could do our budgeting for operations and personnel.
So, sir, if you're asking my opinion, I'd say no later than June 30
to guarantee the 2013 budget remains intact without -- and impute --
affecting it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So we can make the decision at
that point in time, June 30th?
MR. JACKSON: You could.
Page 146
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. I think that might give a
little comfort level. And who knows what could possibly happen
between now and then.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. I've gone over this contract,
and I need your help, Jeff. Can you point out where it says that the
term for this new contract commencing -- and I may not have the right
document here. I may not have --
MR. KLATZKOW: You have the right document.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- all the amendments, but I don't
see anywhere that this says that this is a four-year contract.
MR. KLATZKOW: You need to go back to the executive
summary where the motion was -- the recommendation was for four
years. For whatever reason, that term --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Is not in this contract.
MR. KLATZKOW: -- was omitted in the contract. But that's
what you voted on.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, I'm not sure that it is, because
-- I mean, I've got the minutes here, and I don't see that -- let me look
at what the motion says. Because I've looked through the whole
contract, and nowhere does it say that your term is four years.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Last page?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, I thought it was on the
last page.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, it's not. It's not in the contract.
And now let me just go and see what the motion was and who made it.
I have the minutes right here.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, it was -- that's right. It
wasn't in this last contract. It was in previous contracts --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- but it wasn't in this contract,
that's right.
Page 147
March 27, 2012
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: So what does that add up to?
MR. KLATZKOW: Oh, he's got a four-year contract, ma'am.
The executive summary was to renew his for contract four years.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It doesn't matter what an executive
summary says, Jeff.
MR. KLATZKOW: But the recommendation was --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It has to be what the motion is. I
mean, the executive summary and the recommendation are not
necessarily what the board voted on.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: But what I'd like to know is what is
the impact of that, Jeff. Can you tell me?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. I think he has a four-year contract,
ma'am.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: But, I mean, if he has a four-year
contract or a one-year contract, what's the impact with each one? He's
still working here. Then he would -- his first year is -- oh, he's already
done two years into that four, hasn't he?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No; one. We're six months into
this new contract.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, I see.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And so, essentially, what it means
is that if he only has a one-year contract as opposed to a four-year
contract then, you know, this business of saving, you know, "the next
three years" is not true, because he doesn't have a contract that extends
into the next three years if he doesn't have a four-year term.
And so, essentially, what he's wanting to do is to terminate now
so he doesn't have to work the back half of the six months of his
one-year contract.
So, I mean, I just have to see what it says in the minutes, because
I've gone through the contract, and it certainly doesn't say it.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: I remember us talking four years,
too, actually.
Page 148
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, we have to see what the
motion was.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah. Any other comments?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm happy.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Why don't we take a 10-minute
break and
let Terri rest her fingers for a little bit. Okay.
(A brief recess was had.)
MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, you have a live mike -- Madam
Chairman, you have a live mike.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you very much. Hello, live
mike.
MR. OCHS: This is live mike.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Our CRA is back in session at this
time. And let's see.
MR. OCHS: We're continuing on 14B1, ma'am.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: We don't have a motion yet. We
were discussing the term of office.
Did you find your answer, Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. It does look like -- when I
go back to the minutes -- and I'll just enter these minutes back on the
record along with a copy of the executive summary. It does look like
the contract was incorrectly drafted. And it does, when I reviewed the
minutes, appear that -- where is it -- that what -- the motion that was
made was to approve the executive summary, which would have
provided for a four-year term.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, good. Thank you very much
for clearing that up for us.
And so now, Commissioner -- oh, there's Commissioner
Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I had a conversation with
the county attorney, and he told me -- he advised that Mr. Jackson has
Page 149
March 27, 2012
to bring the contract back to amend the contract as reflected on the
executive summary, so -- but the bottom line is, you know, if the bank
-- if we don't get a renewal on the loan, this is immaterial. If we do
get the loan renewed, it's immaterial, this item. So, this item is
premature, and we shouldn't consider it.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, hang on. May I comment on
that?
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I don't disagree with your last
statement, but I want to go back to what you said, because you're
right, the contract was not brought back to the board for review, you
know, prior to execution. So, really, what needs to happen is this
contract needs to be brought back to the board; is that correct, Jeff?
MR. KLATZKOW: I think it should be cleaned up, yes, to
reflect what the executive summary was. I don't think it's necessary,
but I think it should be cleaned up.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Who was that?
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: What?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That was me.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, that was you.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So do I have a motion from
any of the board members here?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to continue.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Second.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. There is a motion and a
second to continue this to when?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Whenever.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: No. You have to make it a little
more --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Indefinitely.
Page 150
March 27, 2012
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Indefinitely? Okay. Motion to
continue indefinitely. Would you --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: There's a problem. Can I -- before
we go on, I just want to look at that contract again. There's, I think,
another issue with it. I'm sorry, but it's --
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's right. If we continue it, then
we can --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Because it basically says here to
keep all other terms of the employment agreement intact, and the
amendment that I was looking at earlier provides that David Jackson's
duties would be reduced and he would no longer be working in the
capacity of the executive -- you know, in economic development.
That's not what was in this executive summary. So, quite frankly,
there are a lot of problems.
Well, reading this -- I mean, doesn't the contract amendment
provide that his duties will be reduced?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, but that's not the issue. The issue
before the board is Mr. Jackson's asking you to terminate him.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, but -- I understand that, but
what I'm saying is, we have a real problem with this contract as it
relates to the executive summary and what was approved by the board,
okay. And you've got an amendment here that doesn't mirror the
executive summary.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Could I ask a question? Would that,
in any way, change what we're doing now? We're just talking about
whether to terminate or not terminate. Will that contract make a
difference?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I think continuing this and
bringing back this issue to amend this contract and revisit the contract
amendment is something that has to be a second motion or a second
part of the first motion. But this contract is completely incorrect
relative to the motion and relative to the executive summary.
Page 151
March 27, 2012
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So, actually, then, if we do
bring this back, if there is a second to that motion to bring it back -- or
was there a second? Were you seconding?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I was seconding.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. As long as we have a motion
to bring it back, then they could research that at this time. We don't
need to do that right now, right?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, we don't, but it's something
that needs to be addressed because it's incorrect.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And so you have those
orders, yes.
Now, Commissioner Coletta, did you want to say something?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, yes. I don't care for the
term "indefinitely." In other words, that's saying the same as we don't
want to hear it. I mean, we're not the Supreme Court. I think we
should probably have some point in time that we're going to be
dealing with it.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Like May 30th, for instance, when
we find out from the banks whether it's a go or not?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, or the first meeting in
June.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Or do we find out from the banks in
the end of April?
MR. JACKSON: April 27th the bids will be open.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, that would put us -- I
guess that would put us into the first meeting of May. Yeah, that's
what I would suggest is that we include that language in there so we
have some certainty of when we're going to be dealing with it.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Henning,
would you modify your motion to include that?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's fine.
Page 152
March 27, 2012
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Hiller, would you
second that?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, I would, except for the fact
that the correction of the contract has to come back before then,
because we can't continue under an incorrect contract.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We can give direction to do
that beforehand.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, that would be fine.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So if you could just modify your
motion, Commissioner Henning, to bring the contract back, say, at the
next meeting.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's fine.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you. I'll second that then.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Vety good. I have a motion and a
second to bring this back in the first meeting in May.
Any further comments? Questions?
(No response.)
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: And opposed, like sign.
(No response.)
CRA CHAIRMAN FIALA: Very good. You may have this
meeting back, sir. CRA meeting is adjourned.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I don't want it.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You get it.
MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, if we could take some of the airport
authority items on your agenda in the interest of allowing some of the
Page 153
March 27, 2012
folks in the audience to be heard.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Which ones are those?
Item #14A2
AN ADVERTISEMENT LICENSE AGREEMENT WITH
SEMINOLE GAMING MANAGEMENT, LLC FOR
ADVERTISING AT THE IMMOKALEE REGIONAL AIRPORT —
APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Well, the next item on airports would be 14A2,
which was previously 16G2 on your consent agenda. This item was
moved by Commissioner Hiller. It's a recommendation that the Board
of County Commissioners, acting as the Collier County Airport
Authority, approve the attached advertisement license agreement with
the Seminole Gaming Management, LLC, for advertising at the
Immokalee Regional Airport.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You know, I never got that in my
packet.
MR. OCHS: Mr. Curry is available to present or answer
questions.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. The concern I have is, you
know, allowing the Seminole gaming management to advertise over
other businesses that are there from being able to advertise and, you
know, to what extent can each of these companies advertise becomes
problematic.
And, quite frankly, it's my understanding -- and please correct me
if I'm wrong, Leo, because, you know, I wasn't here back when, but I
thought that it was basically a policy that you did not allow for this --
or maybe, Jeff, I should say -- Jeff, maybe you can help me out; it
would be more appropriate if you addressed this -- that we did not
allow advertising licenses for businesses at the airport. And I may be
Page 154
March 27, 2012
mistaken about that.
And then the second issue is, you know, to what extent do we
allow advertising on government property?
MR. CURRY: Chris Curry, Executive Director, Airport
Authority.
We have several agreements in place with companies to
advertise. Anybody is welcome to advertise at the airport.
Advertising with the casino does not exclude anyone else. We
actually have advertising costs that you approved in the rates and
charges for the airport authority. So we have several agreements with
people to advertise at all airports in the county.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And what exactly will this
advertising look like?
MR. CURRY: Well, it is a window cling that will advertise the
Seminole Casino.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. Do we have any public
speakers on it?
MR. MITCHELL: Just one public speaker.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Let's call him.
MR. THOMAS: My name is Fred Thomas, and there's only two
items that I wanted to talk about. It's that and the agreement to have
the balloon fest -- harvest festival like we used to in the old days.
We're bringing it back. We're trying to bring it back.
We had a problem with NAFTA where we lost our small farmers
who used to gather around and have a major event, one of the four you
had in Southwest Florida.
We're coming back, taking advantage of the second venue that
brings tourism in. And we're expecting 12- to 15,000 people to come
because of the balloon fest and the wild hog -- we're going to have a
wild hog out there, barbecue, an Olympics for the farm workers,
Immokalee salad, et cetera, et cetera. So we need to get this done
because the event's coming up on the 14th and 15th.
Page 155
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, are there any other
businesses that want to advertise at the airport? Has this been
extended to other businesses in the area?
MR. THOMAS: The harvest festival?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, the advertising for the
Seminole gaming. Are you saying that --
MR. CURRY: I'm not sure Fred Thomas would know that about
the airport, but --
MR. THOMAS: I'm just talking about --
MR. CURRY: But any business --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, he knows about the business
and the community.
MR. CURRY: Well, he doesn't know about people that would
want to advertise.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, I mean, he's very involved
with the community. I'm sure he was -- go ahead, Fred, keep talking.
MR. THOMAS: But all I'm saying to you is Items 2 and 5 deal
with the harvest festival. We're talking about a one-time advertising
for that.
Now, I know the enterprise is advertising out there, the enterprise
MR. CURRY: Well, they have basically a concessionaire
agreement with Immokalee airport.
MR. THOMAS: I know there's some others that do that, but all
I'm concerned about is making sure the harvest festival goes off well
and the balloon fest, and we get the agreement signed, and the
advertising --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Because the Seminoles are going
to advertise your balloon fest?
MR. THOMAS: Oh, yes. That's what it's all about.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. So is this -- is this
advertising strictly for the balloon fest?
Page 156
March 27, 2012
MR. CURRY: No, it's not. It's for year-round advertising.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's what I thought.
MR. CURRY: Right.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So who else is advertising at the
airports?
MR. CURRY: I can't remember who else is advertising, but
anybody that wants to advertise can, and they would be put under an
agreement just like this if they decided to.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Hang on one second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That was the last public speaker, Ian?
MR. MITCHELL: Yes, sir; there was just the one.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. I just want to point out
Native Americans don't pay tax, sales tax or any other tax.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'm just -- I'm going over your
revenues, and I just don't see the advertising revenues you're talking
about. I mean, it certainly could be a good way of increasing revenues
at the airport if you give businesses the opportunity to do it.
But I'm just looking quickly through, you know, the different
revenue sources you have out at Immokalee, and I don't --
MR. CURRY: You should see several at Marco.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Oh, in Marco?
MR. CURRY: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. Let me quickly take a look.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Is there a motion?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'll make a motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Motion to approve by
Commissioner Hiller, second by Commissioner Fiala.
All in favor, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
Page 157
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It passes unanimously.
Okay. That brings us to Item No. 14B2, B3.
Item #14A3
THE SUBMITTAL OF A GRANT APPLICATION TO THE
FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION IN THE AMOUNT
OF $725,000, SUBJECT TO CHANGE BASED ON RFP
RESULTS, FOR THE DESIGN AND BID OF THE
RESTORATION OF RUNWAY 9-27 AT THE IMMOKALEE
REGIONAL AIRPORT — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. It was -- 14A3 was previously 16G3 on
your consent agenda. It's a recommendation to approve the submittal
of a grant application to the Federal Aviation Administration in the
amount of$725,000 subject to change based on RFP results for the
design and bid of the restoration of Runway 9-27 at the Immokalee
Regional Airport.
This item was moved at Commissioner Hiller's request.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. And the reason I moved it
is because I remember reviewing the JSIPs, which are the summaries
for, you know, applications for the federal grants.
And in reviewing this, what concerned me was what are we
really talking about with respect to the larger project that's behind the
$725,000 request? Because this 7,000 -- $725,000 request is just
basically the design permit bid rehabilitation of Runway 9-27. And
Page 158
March 27, 2012
when you look at the JSIP, the actual construction rehabilitation of
Runway 9-27 is $10 million.
MR. CURRY: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And when exactly do you expect
to get $10 million to do this? And why exactly are we doing this?
You know, we have not approved the Immokalee area Airport Master
Plan, and you're going forward with projects which are part of this
plan, and I'm not sure if that plan should even be approved.
MR. CURRY: Well, I think there's some confusion --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. Then help me.
MR. CURRY: -- because we follow the airport master plan, and
the airport master plan says that we will rehabilitate the runways.
The way it works with the Federal Aviation Administration,
which will administer 95 percent of the funding for this, is that prior to
rehabilitation, which is reconstruction of the runway, you do a design
first. That's a requirement.
So this year we're going through with the design portion for that
runway because, as you have in your packet, the statewide payment
program that was sponsored by FDOT found the Immokalee runways
and Marco to be in very poor condition, so that actually helped to
make it a top priority for the FAA to fund.
So this year we're going forward with the design of 9-27, and
next year we hope to be funded for the total reconstruction, but that
has nothing to do with the Immokalee Area Master Plan. It's all about
the airport master plan.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Not the master plan, airport master
plan.
MR. CURRY: It's all about the airport master plan.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: When was the airport master plan
adopted by this board?
MR. CURRY: 2009.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Was it -- the airport master plan
Page 159
March 27, 2012
was adopted by this board?
MR. CURRY: The 2009 master plan update --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, no.
MR. CURRY: -- was paid for --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, no. I didn't ask that. My
question is very straightforward. When did the board approve the
Immokalee Airport Master Plan?
MR. CURRY: Well, I will tell you this: I --
COMMIS SIONER HILLER: As amended.
MR. CURRY: -- arrived in 2010. When I got here, that was the
plan that the Immokalee airport would be developed on.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I understand. That's not my
question.
MR. CURRY: Well, I don't know.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's your understanding.
MR. CURRY: I have no idea what happened in 2009.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can someone help me? Leo, can
you find out when that plan was adopted by the board that he's
referring to?
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am, we will.
MR. CURRY: I will tell you that you have passed the -- you
have approved the JSIP, and the JSIP accounts, as a number one
priority for the airport, is to design, permit, bid, and rehabilitate
Runway 9-27.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And that could be a problem.
MR. CURRY: Well, I mean, that's what -- that's what you
approved as part of the MPO board.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, I understand, and that could be
a problem.
MR. CURRY: So that's the path that the airport is following.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yes. But that could be a problem,
because if that was presented and wasn't presented pursuant to a plan
Page 160
March 27, 2012
that we've approved, the fact that it went to the MPO before it came to
us for approval would have been inappropriate.
MR. CURRY: Why would you not want to rehabilitate a runway
that you're about to lose?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, here's why, because there is
a difference between, you know, doing rehabilitation and potentially
doing far more than a maintenance type of project. I don't know how
large the scope of this runway project is and, you know, what's in
vision in this $10 million, if this $10 million also includes that
extension. But let me backtrack and explain --
MR. CURRY: The extension is not a part of this.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. Then let me explain why I
have a concern. You know, I've been looking over your financial
statements over in Immokalee, and before even counting your
administrative overhead allocation, you're running a loss of$172,444,
okay. You know, your revenues are very low. You know, you keep
having problems with your tenants, arid you keep wanting to try to
drive your tenants out.
You know, your lease revenue is $116,000, okay. Those are very
small dollar amounts. To put this kind of money, whether it's federal,
state, or local, into an airport which has been losing money and, quite
frankly, is substantially in debt to the county -- and I don't have the
portion of the total airport debt to the county that's allocated to the
Immokalee airport specifically, but taking the three airports, you
know, those airports, between 1994 and 2011, have basically been
advanced almost $21 million by the county. So, basically, it's clearly
a subsidized project.
Now, we don't have the development going on in Immokalee, or I
should say at the Immokalee airport, that the Immokalee Airport
Master Plan was predicated on. That master plan was predicated on
the development of Ave Maria, it was predicated on the development
of Big Cypress, it was predicated on the development of the trade port
Page 161
March 27, 2012
and this other project, none of which have come to fruition.
So the entire premise of the Immokalee Area Master Plan
improvement which, quite frankly, when you add it up in total, I think,
comes to about $150 million, okay, is predicated on a false premise.
And so I'm not sure that we should be applying to the federal
government for funds when the plan and the information within that
plan have -- are, A, not correct and, B, have not been approved.
MR. CURRY: Well, let me --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Chris, let me try to get this back on
track. This is a request to submit a grant application for maintenance
and rehabilitation of a deteriorating runway that has already been
tested, and it's already been determined to be in need of maintenance.
We need to apply for the grant in order to make sure that we can get
the money.
This isn't approval for a runway extension. It is an approval for
maintaining and rehabilitating an existing runway which I think is
5,000 feet long and 150 feet wide; is that true?
MR. CURRY: That is correct.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And that's all it is going to do is to make
sure the runway does not deteriorate to the point where it becomes
unsafe or unusable. And that's all we're discussing today is submitting
a grant application to see if we can get the money for it. And if we get
the money, it comes back and then we can approve the project. And
the project does not include lengthening the runway.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, that's fine, but we don't have
the money. Where are we going to get $10 million from? Who's
going to fund that?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: It's not 10 million.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It's not $10 million.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It is. That's what the cost of the
project is.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: No, it's not.
Page 162
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yes, it is. I'm looking at it right
here.
MR. CURRY: Let me say just --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's what you submitted to the
federal government.
MR. CURRY: Let me try to clear up some of the confusion once
again.
The FAA funds airports like Immokalee because they're part of
the national plan of integrated airport systems. It's important to the
FAA to have a serviceable airport in Immokalee.
The second thing, you know, you talk about the $20 million over
a period of years. And it's very interesting that that $20 million that is
so-called owed to the county produces about $30 million of economic
development per year at those airports.
The project will probably not reach $10 million, although that's
an estimate, but 95 percent of that is funded by the Federal Aviation
Administration, two-and-a-half by the Florida Department of
Transportation, and the county shares two-and-a-half percent.
So, again, that is just an estimated number that you'll find out
more as you put RFP's out to get the project funded.
MR. THOMAS: And I can help Commissioner Hiller. Ave
Maria is a reality. Ave Maria is a reality. The trade port is a reality,
and it's got industry and whatnot going on out there. No, these are the
three things that she said --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Is there a motion to approve here?
MR. THOMAS: -- the airport was predicated on. And the only
thing it hasn't done yet is the Big Cypress Rural Land Stewardship
Program.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: He sold me. Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
MR. CURRY: If those places were never developed.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We have a motion --
Page 163
March 27, 2012
MR. CURRY: The FAA would still be funding a 5,000 foot
runway.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- to approve by Commissioner Coletta,
second by Commissioner Fiala.
All in favor, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. It passes 4-1 with Commissioner
Fiala (sic) dissenting.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, it's not Fiala.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I'm sorry. Commissioner Hiller
dissenting.
Okay. Where's that take us?
Item #14A4
A SITE LICENSE AGREEMENT WITH THE SEMINOLE
CASINO AT IMMOKALEE FOR A HOT AIR BALLOON EVENT
AND HARVEST FESTIVAL AT THE IMMOKALEE REGIONAL
AIRPORT — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Next item is 14A4, which was previously 16G5. It
was moved from the consent agenda this morning.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yep.
MR. OCHS: And that item is --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: 16G4?
MR. OCHS: No, 16G5.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: No, 16G5.
Page 164
March 27, 2012
MR. OCHS: It is now 14A4 on your agenda. It's a
recommendation to approve a site license agreement with the
Seminole Casino at Immokalee for a hot air balloon event and harvest
festival at the Immokalee Regional Airport.
You had a public speaker this morning on the consent agenda,
and the board decided to move the item to the regular and to hear it.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Being that we're taking airport
things, will you be coming back to the other one, which is 16G4?
That's the same thing, a runway --
MR. CURRY: That was not pulled.
MR. OCHS: That was not moved, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, I see, okay. Good thank you.
Thank you for clearing that up.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: All right. First of all, I'd like to --
can I speak?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay, thanks. Balloon Flying
Handbook.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning was first.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: The reason that this item was
pulled is because, first of all, I think we, again, owe a great deal of
gratitude to the Seminoles for -- willing to host and fund this event,
and it's absolutely fantastic.
This was an idea that they put forth when we were working on
our subcommittee in the TDC looking for ways to promote attention to
Immokalee and also to Collier County. And the Seminoles came up
with this, and it was very much appreciated by everyone in the
committee, and they, you know, presented us with photographs of
what they envisioned, and then they turned around and have made it a
reality, so they really need to be commended for it.
The second issue is whether or not it should actually be held on
the airport property. And it goes to a question of security, and how
Page 165
March 27, 2012
are we going to manage airport security if you're going to have this
balloon event fully at the airport.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's a secret.
MR. CURRY: That's right.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Oh, I forgot. And I wouldn't know
because I haven't seen, you know, the security plan to know, you
know, what we thought to --
MR. CURRY: You've seen the airport.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- deal with events.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And, Chris, I wouldn't tell her if I were
you.
MR. CURRY: You've seen the airport.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Keep it secret.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yes, but I can keep a secret.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It's got to remain a secret.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Anyone who wants, I've got the
Balloon Flying Handbook over here published by the Department of
Transportation. So if any of you want to participate in the balloon
event, the book is here.
So can you help me? Why -- what are we going to do about
security?
MR. CURRY: Well, security is not an issue for us with the
balloon event. The predominant part of the event is held in a
nonsecure area. It's the area that's adjacent to the park, and there is a
fence that separates everything pertaining to the event from the air
side of the airport.
If there is access needed to the secure side, then we've been
talking about a badging system that would be necessary for
identification only for a select few individuals. But right now it
doesn't impact the secure side of the airport.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. That was it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning?
Page 166
March 27, 2012
MR. CURRY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: How is this event going to affect
the day-to-day operation of the users of the Immokalee airport?
MR. CURRY: Minimal, minimal impact at best. The launching
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So it's got no effect?
MR. CURRY: Yeah. The launching of the balloons takes place
between seven and nine a.m. on Saturday and Sunday morning. It's a
slight possibility that we could close runways, but I doubt it. There
are no planned landings that will occur at the airport. And if they do,
balloons are aircraft as well and have the same entitlement to the
airport environment as aircraft do. But seven to nine is when the
launch would take place, so minimal impact to the airport operations.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So it will have no effect on the
users in the airport?
MR. CURRY: It should not, only if we decide to close the
runway for any portion of time, but we can do that any time that we
see the need to do that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Have you spoken to the users
out there?
MR. CURRY: The manager at Immokalee will be reaching out
to some of the tenants at the airport. And, again, we wanted to wait till
we got a little bit closer to the event because, as you can imagine with
an event this size, a lot of the small details have changed along the
way. So we do plan to meet with the tenants on the airport. I believe
it will be the week of April 2nd.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Have you made provisions in
case it negatively affected their business, to compensate them for their
loss?
MR. CURRY: I don't understand that question. Provisions? I
mean, the most that the airport may do is shut down the runway, but
we can do that any time that we see fit. The only reason that we
Page 167
March 27, 2012
would shut down the runway is if a balloon happened to land on the
runway and the recovery time was necessary to retrieve it. But we're
not talking about a significant amount of time.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, balloons are not
fast-moving items. They go up, and they're going to stay there for a
while, and wouldn't that affect the users?
MR. CURRY: Well, they're aircraft as well, so they're entitled to
the same use of the airspace and runway, just like a fixed-wing
aircraft.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So there's no provisions for the
existing users?
MR. CURRY: No provisions necessary.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I remember when they held
the balloon fest out at the Naples Airport, they did it for about three
years in a row, didn't they?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. And all of a sudden,
(indicating).
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah. Well, you know, they really
had some tough times because the weather was so bad that nothing
could fly, and so that really caused a problem for them.
But, anyway, I never heard a complaint at all, not that I was in
the seat. I wasn't. But I never heard a complaint from anybody about
the closing down of the airport or problems taking off or landing or
anything like that.
And I think that this is going to be a marvelous event for
Immokalee and for all the surrounding area, and I think it would be
wonderful to have some kind of an event that you-all can be proud of
and you can really enjoy. And I'm so glad you came up with it, so I
make a motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: He didn't come up with it.
Page 168
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Motion to approve by Commission Fiala,
second by Commissioner Coletta.
We have public speakers, I believe, Ian. How many do we have?
MR. MITCHELL: We have two.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, I didn't even realize we had
speakers. I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Is Fred one of them?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: He already spoke on this item.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I know he did.
MR. THOMAS: I forgot to tell you one thing.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: He waives his time.
MR. THOMAS: I forgot to tell you one thing. I came here for
this as a member of the board of the Immokalee Chamber of
Commerce, because this is a joint venture between the Chamber of
Commerce and the casino.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Good, thank you.
MR. THOMAS: So I forgot to mention the Chamber of
Commerce and the casino.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Nice.
MR. MITCHELL: The other speaker was Jim Murray.
MR. MURRAY: Afternoon, Commissioners. Jim Murray,
Airport Advisory Board.
When it comes to safety, as Commissioner Henning was talking
about, those of us who are pilots are used to special events going on,
be it skydiving or balloons, and this is nothing different than that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, thank you.
MR. MURRAY: My wife and I are both pilots. My wife's son
was a licensed balloons pilot, and she spent a lot of time on ground
crews or chase cars, whatever you want to call it. I have the utmost
respect for Mr. Courtright's professional aviation, professional
background, but these balloons -- people get the impression they just
go and drift wherever. These people are licensed pilots. They set up
Page 169
March 27, 2012
-- the wind directions are -- they know where they start, where they're
going to finish.
Ifs a spectacular event for the spectators and could be handled
well. I have no problem at all with them taking off from the airport,
and I think it will be totally safe, and I appreciate your support. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. All in favor, please signify by
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It passes unanimously.
MR. THOMAS: Thank you all very much. And I'll tell my wife
to thank you, too.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I ask just a quick question --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Sure, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- before Mr. Curry leaves?
What's up with the Salazar contract? The board approved it, and it
was supposed to be signed. And my understanding is that it hasn't
been signed?
MR. CURRY: The contract has been signed. It was a
requirement of the board to have the contract signed before it was
presented to you and before we move forward --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay.
MR. CURRY: -- with the interior modifications to the building.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So the contract has been signed?
MR. CURRY: The contract has been signed.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Is the tenant paying rent?
Page 170
March 27, 2012
MR. CURRY: No, the tenant is not in the building because we're
waiting for the USDA to approve of the final interior design before we
can go out and put it out for RFX (sic). So once the USDA approves
of it -- or RFP. Once the USDA approves of it, then we'll put the
contract on the street for 21 days, select a contractor, and begin with
the construction.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So you've already submitted the
change in design to the USDA?
MR. CURRY: Yes, sir, we have.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And how much longer till we get
that back?
MR. CURRY: I am unsure. They have their own separate
governmental process, and we're waiting to get it back.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, I'm sure Mr. Salazar would,
you know, like to get into the building, and this delay seems to be --
MR. CURRY: I would --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- excessive.
MR. CURRY: -- love to have Mr. Salazar in the building, but I
cannot supersede the requirements of the USDA.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, I understand. I didn't know if
you had a contact there that you could maybe talk to and maybe find
out an ETA on that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. County Manager, where do we
go from here?
Item #9A
ORDINANCE 2012-15: AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 75-16, AS
AMENDED, AS IT RELATES TO PROCEDURES FOR
RECONSIDERATION OF AGENDA ITEMS — ADOPTED
MR. OCHS: Sir, we go to agenda 9A that was previously
Page 171
March 27, 2012
summary agenda Item 17C, moved at Commissioner Hiller's request.
It's a recommendation --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: This one?
MR. OCHS: -- to adopt an ordinance amending Ordinance No.
75-16 as amended, as it relates to the procedures for reconsideration of
agenda items.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. I understand that we're
looking to modify this where, you know, something like the extension
in this particular place with respect to the Immokalee Area Master
Plan came about after the period for reconsideration, as I understand,
would have expired; however, I've listened to a lot of the discussion
and, you know, one of the reasons why this reconsideration
modification to the ordinance is being requested is to avoid this master
plan being put through public scrutiny.
And, quite frankly, I was going to say "again," but then I
hesitated and I won't say "again" because it really hasn't gone through
the public vetting that it properly deserves in order to determine
whether the people of Immokalee really want this and whether the
other constituents of Collier County understand what the implication
is to them.
So, you know, my -- I would like to make a motion to deny and
recommend that we take the Immokalee Master Plan amendment and
put it back out into the community, specifically and at large, to get the
input from the citizens as to what they really would like.
And I got all the sign-in sheets, you know, that I told you about
before for all the meetings and, quite frankly, you know, the public
has not been attending. The majority of the sign-ins are county staff,
CR -- I'm sorry -- advisory board members, you know, professionals
that represent the large land interest. You don't see sign-in sheets
filled with the names of the residents of Immokalee or the residents of
Collier County. So, quite frankly, it hasn't been vetted as it properly
Page 172
March 27, 2012
should be.
So I don't see any need for the modification of the ordinance and,
again, my motion is, is that we leave the ordinance as is and, instead,
take the Immokalee Area Master Plan and put it through the entire
public vetting process, give everyone the opportunity to get an
education as to what this amendment is, bring it back before the
Planning Commission, and then bring it back to the board for a regular
vote.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Motion by Commissioner Hiller
to deny this petition --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: This ordinance.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- of this ordinance, deny the change --
the petition to change the ordinance, by Commissioner Hiller. Is there
a second?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll second it for discussion.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Seconded by Commissioner
Henning. I don't see any discussion other than Commissioner Coletta.
Do you want to discuss this, or do you want to vote on it?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, I absolutely want to discuss
it, you know. And we keep repeating the same lies -- I'm not going to
be polite about it -- over and over again. We're going to -- eventually
they're going to try to convince people that it's the truth. You can't
meet for eight years, you can't have meetings that have been open to
the public where they had interpreters there -- yes, that's true, a lot of
people didn't attend the meetings, but that's because that was their
choice.
People that attended had a real interest. They had visioning
sessions where they set up boards all around the place. We had many
Immokalee citizens there I never seen before. They wrote down what
they thought their vision was of Immokalee. This whole process went
forward to the point it's at today.
Now, thank God we got some people at the state level that realize
Page 173
March 27, 2012
what we're going through here in Collier County with this Immokalee
Master Plan. They've given us the opportunity to be able to, one more
time, try to reach out to be able to resolve this issue and go forward.
Now, that's where we are with it.
And I'll be absolutely crushed if this commission thinks that it
would be a good idea not to even consider bringing it to the public in
Immokalee so they can make this decision for themselves. There's
been community meetings taking place. There's more meetings going
to be taking place in the future, and I'm sure that when we bring this
before the -- we bring it up for the citizens of Immokalee to be there
and consider, you'll find that there's going to be a tremendous turnout.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: When I was out there, there was
a commitment from the CRA to have a meeting and show the public
how their land is going to be affected; however, working with Mr.
Casalanguida, we haven't heard of any type of meeting.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I could respond to that. We've
got all day. May I? Pretty please?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: No. Commissioner Hiller was next.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. You know, let's make sure
that this is clarified once and for all. The Immokalee Area Master Plan
is in full force and effect and was last amended in 2008, and it
basically -- I think it was, they started development of that master plan
about ten years prior.
What's being discussed here today is not whether Immokalee
does or does not have a master plan but rather what is, in effect, a
strike-all amendment to the 2008 Immokalee Area Master Plan that
was developed over a long period of years in public involvement, to
put forth a master plan amendment that the people do not understand
and do not -- have not really had the opportunity to learn to
Page 174
March 27, 2012
understand.
This needs to go back to the people. It needs to be fully
explained with all details so they completely understand what this
amendment is proposing to do to their community.
And, by the way, with respect to the airport master plan, I want to
-- I really want to know when that was adopted by the board, because
it's incorporated by reference into this amendment.
MR. KLATZKOW: It could have been adopted by the airport
board.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Us, the airport board?
MR. KLATZKOW: No.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The previous board.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You mean before? Before we took
over the airport?
MR. KLATZKOW: Right.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can you find that out for me? I
just want to know.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah, we'll get it.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But it's very important.
So, again, the problem is we have a strike-all amendment to a
plan which is in full force and effect which is a very reasonable plan,
and the community has not been informed as to what this new
strike-all amendment is about, how it affects them, and the
opportunity to publicly vet whether they support it or not.
And just to tell you how significant this amendment is, the total
amount of monies expended, okay, on this amendment is 703,000.
And if we add in the Immokalee area -- I'm sorry -- Immokalee
Airport Master Plan, that's another 300,000. So that plan is worth,
since 2008 alone, a million bucks.
We are wanting to quickly dispense with it with a board vote
when we know the public doesn't understand what's included in the
strike-all amendment? That's just simply wrong. The public has the
Page 175
March 27, 2012
right to know. The public should have the opportunity to be fully
educated.
And, by the way, with respect to the billings, it includes the
Immokalee Area Land Development Code which, according to the
billings, is 100 percent done, 100 percent done. Here's the Land
Development Code for Immokalee, done, which could be separately
adopted now and hasn't been.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: How much public speakers do we have?
MR. MITCHELL: Sir, just one.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Let's call the public speaker.
MR. MITCHELL: Pam Brown.
MS. BROWN: Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is
Pam Brown. I'm with the Immokalee Area Civic Association.
First of all, I want to say, Commissioner Coletta, I respectfully
disagree with your opinion about how this was done in public
workshops in the Immokalee area. I also apologize for not being more
prepared about addressing this item on the agenda today, because
there is nothing that says in the summary agenda this is about the
Immokalee Area Master Plan. So I did not have time to get people
here to address this. Only when I went in to see what the materials
attached looked like is -- what the objective was is to rush this
through.
And also, I looked at the notice of the meeting, which was March
16th. This says that you would give us a minimum of three weeks
prior to the respective public hearing, which has not been, I think,
legally done at this time. So we have no material to present to you at
this time.
And I agree with Commissioner Henning, you-all came over to
Immokalee. We were told that we were going to have public
workshops. We've not had those. We have had a meeting as a civic
association with the Commissioner Coletta; Mr. Davenport, who owns
a lot of land in Immokalee; myself, we own 190 acres in Immokalee;
Page 176
March 27, 2012
Mr. Lochinand (phonetic), who used to work with Baron Collier; and
we also had Mr. Blocker with us, who owns about 50 percent of
downtown.
When we talked to Mr. Coletta, he told us our vote didn't count.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I did not tell you anything of the
sort.
MS. BROWN: Sir, you did.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I did not.
MS. BROWN: You said -- Mr. Davenport is here. And you told
me I was a troublemaker, so --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Pam Brown, you are absolutely
out of order. I did no such thing. That is not my mannerism, and I'd
never say that.
MS. BROWN: Okay. Well --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: But I've got questions for you
before you leave.
MS. BROWN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: How come -- when the master
plan came up, you were part of the master plan committee.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Isn't she still talking?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That's all right. She can be asked
questions.
MS. BROWN: Sir, when it came up, I had questions, but not one
meeting about the Immokalee --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I can't -- in the mike.
MS. BROWN: One question about the Immokalee Area Master
Plan was on a recorded -- recorder like you have here. There are no
minutes that are put on a recorder or a videotape. So if you have any
controversy at a meeting, the only thing you see is what -- this was
approved and this was disapproved, and that's what happened.
I had a lot of concerns, and none of them have really been
addressed. The loop road -- because the committee said they didn't
Page 177
March 27, 2012
want the loop road, but that's been pushed down our throats. You tell
us Oil Well Road's for Immokalee. It is not.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, it's not.
MS. BROWN: And you keep on telling us that. I'm not drinking
your Kool-Aid.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: But, Ms. Brown, if I may --
Commissioner Brown, excuse me, in reference to your title of the --
with the Immokalee Fire Department -- were you not involved with
the Immokalee Master Plan from almost day one right on through to
the time they took a vote?
MS. BROWN: Sir, I'm asking for you-all to --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Did you vote for it or did you
vote against the master plan when it came to you as the master plan
committee?
MS. BROWN: Am I on trial right now?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Why can't you ask (sic) that
question?
MS. BROWN: I told you I had problems, and they were not
addressed.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: But you didn't -- how did you
vote; against it?
MS. BROWN: I wasn't able to vote. I was on the Master Plan
and Visioning Committee for four months, sir. That's all I was on the
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Oh, in other words, you went
through eight years of the process and you made four meetings?
MS. BROWN: Sir, I was only on the board for four months. I
only could vote for four months, that's all.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right. But then it went to the
CRA, and there was a whole 'nother process that went forward. Were
you at those meetings?
MS. BROWN: Sir, this was not legally advertised.
Page 178
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Ma'am, I'm asking you a
question. You've been part of the process. You didn't have a problem
with it until just recently.
MS. BROWN: I did. I did have a problem, but I was told the
people in Naples didn't care about Immokalee; they were going to do
what they were going to do.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Oh, that is bull. That was a
forum that was held in Immokalee. Immokalee citizens expressed
themselves very openly, and your silence at that time speaks volumes
for where you are right now.
This is all politically -- this is a political agenda that's never
going to end. If we don't get this before the Immokalee people sooner
than later we're at a disadvantage.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. All in favor of the motion, please
signify by saying --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: This is a motion to disapprove?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Disapprove. Motion to disapprove --
please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. Make a motion to --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Wait a minute. All opposed to the
motion, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: The motion loses -- fails with a vote of
four against and Commissioner Hiller for.
Is there a motion -- another motion?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Motion to approve by Commissioner
Coletta.
Page 179
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Second by Commissioner Fiala.
Commissioner Henning, did you want to say something?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. Just witnessing that
exchange not only is embarrassing, but we see this item as being very
emotional. And what I've heard from citizens of Immokalee, they just
want to understand it better. They want to understand how it's going
to affect their property but, yet, there's no leadership to provide that.
And, Mr. Casalanguida, is there something that you can help us
out with so we don't have a very contentious issue when it comes
back? Just this little change -- exchange here on whether it should
proceed, you see how emotional it was? We don't need that up here.
But the citizens deserve answers. I think we deserve answers.
We never had a discussion on the elements of the master plan.
Last time it was here, it was quickly dismissed.
So is there any way -- or anybody that can assist us to let the
citizens understand --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I can.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- this amendment to the master
plan --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Sir, I can answer that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- and allow them to fulfill the
commitment, Mr. Casalanguida, of how it is going to affect your land?
You were out in the meeting when I was there.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Commissioners, I understand. For the
record, Nick Casalanguida. The last time this item came up, the
county attorney and I sat down and we talked about three options.
One was a total redo. Put it back through the comprehensive planning
process.
Option 2 was of a hybrid; put it back through a public hearing,
one public meeting, Planning Commission, then come back to the
board.
Page 180
March 27, 2012
And then the last one was just a straight reconsideration by the
board.
So, you know, at this point in time the direction we received is to
bring back a straight reconsideration. But those are the three options
we laid out for the board as, you know, complete redo, some sort of
hybrid that allowed a little bit more public involvement, and then a
straight reconsideration.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So you're saying that what we're
doing, it doesn't -- is not going to involve any public meetings, like
when I went out to Immokalee?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: No. I think in talking to Penny -- and,
unfortunately, she's not here -- her intention was to hold several public
meetings and do kind of what we talked about, convey different
quadrants and show the people and allow them the opportunity to say,
okay, this is my property; how does the master plan change.
We've had some email exchanges with Penny with regard to that,
and I think her intention was to bring a plan back to the board to do
that once a reconsideration was scheduled. So I think that's where
we're at right now.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Good. Well, we could have
done without the emotions and got really to what's going to happen in
the future.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, let's be honest about this,
Commissioner Henning. This is more of a political issue to try to
sabotage the plan than it is to try to get any information.
If people have concerns about what's going to happen to their
property, if I were sitting in that position, that man is the person I
would call on the telephone right now. I wouldn't be sitting around
waiting for somebody to come spoon feed me that information and, in
turn, to try to use the public forum to -- for political purposes, I think,
is despicable.
But, nevertheless, this whole process has been one of interference
Page 181
March 27, 2012
and delay of anything that has to do with Immokalee, whether it is the
airport, whether it is having events at the airport, whether it's the CRA,
whether it's the Immokalee plan. All of this is a purely political
attempt to influence an election. And anybody who watches this very
closely understands that, and we're not fooled by it.
But, nevertheless, we've got a motion on the floor.
Commissioner Coletta, let's get through this.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Who should -- who should
people talk to? Mr. Casalanguida?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Mr. Casalanguida.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh. I thought that was -- the
CRA was in charge of the master plan.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: If you're interesting in finding out what a
change in zoning will do with your property, Mr. Casalanguida is the
guy who can get the answer for you; is that true?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. So if you're really concerned
about what's going to happen to your property, you know what his
telephone number is. You can pick up the telephone and call him.
You can schedule a meeting with him any time you want to, and
nobody has to go out and hold your hand. If you're interested in it, you
can get the answer right there, okay.
Now, Commissioner Coletta, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. Commissioner Henning
did bring up something. A lot of passions have entered into this, and
we should try to keep it on a level playing field, and I appreciate you
pointing that out.
Sorry if I overreacted, but the truth of the matter is, I have strong
feelings about Immokalee and all the residents, even the ones that may
not agree with me at all times on all issues. And I'll make every effort.
Now, one of the things I can tell you is Penny Phillippi couldn't
go forward with the public meetings until we had the okay from this
Page 182
March 27, 2012
commission saying that we were going to be able to consider it, to try
to hold meetings. Now there's going to be many meetings in
Immokalee to try to bring people forward. Hopefully at that point in
time, when we schedule this for a meeting, we will get a number of
people that will be able to enter into the discussion and bring up their
concerns, and we'll be able to go through it in great depth to be able to
break it down.
But the public meetings are absolutely important. Pam Brown is
correct about that. You can never do a public outreach that's going to
be totally sufficient. There's always going to be somebody that isn't
going to get the message, and every effort should be made to try to
cover every one of them.
And, Commissioner Brown, if I offended you in any way, I
apologize.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I was going to suggest --
although there have been a lot of other great suggestions, so this might
just be on the wayside. But I was thinking that maybe the CRA, along
with some of our people in zoning and planning, could hold maybe
two meetings in Immokalee, but they could use the school, because
that's a safe ground for everybody there, and we could ask the school
to work with you or with them or with us to pass out flyers that invited
people to be there.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Wonderful idea.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And we would have to make sure to
try and plan it on a day when they're not --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No conflicts.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- working or -- yeah. And, of
course, that might not happen easily, because a lot of these people are
working two jobs. But we can work at it to try and get them there.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Commissioner Fiala,
what I was going to suggest -- but I was going to wait till this point got
Page 183
March 27, 2012
by -- is that we have a special meeting in Immokalee at 7 o'clock in
the evening on a commission day where we finish our business here,
we can go to Immokalee and have a meeting there at the school where
this Collier County Commission will stand before the residents and go
through what the master plan is and see if we get a buy-in.
I think that would be a true way to get to the people of
Immokalee. It's 40 miles away, and it's difficult for them to get here.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: The last thing I had to say is --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You know, this is not --
Commissioner Coyle characterizes the -- my recommendation that this
be put back to the citizens of Immokalee and the citizens of Collier
County in a public forum to fully disclose in plain and simple
language what this amendment -- and I'm going to emphasize again
amendment -- is proposing to do to the Immokalee community.
It's not about a single property getting a change in use and, you
know, whether or not citizens want to be spoonfed. It's about this
overall amendment to the existing Immokalee Area Master Plan that
Commissioner Coletta seems so intent on getting through.
What is in this plan that is so different -- what is in this
amendment, forgive me, that is so different from the existing plan that
you are desperate to get it adopted? I'm very concerned.
Now, Pam, I'd like to know, what was it again that Commissioner
Coletta said to you? What was it? Can you repeat that? Because
with all the stuff that was going on, I missed what he said.
MS. BROWN: We went there concerned as citizens of
Immokalee. Our concerns were --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Where did you go and when?
MS. BROWN: We met with him at his office in Immokalee --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay.
MS. BROWN: -- when he came over on a Wednesday for the
Page 184
March 27, 2012
rotary and the chamber meeting. We found out he was going to be
there. He basically told us that we were just four people, that we
weren't everybody in Immokalee. And we're, like, well, we vote here,
we own property here.
Mr. Davenport, am I wrong or right? I mean, I'm trying to get --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Go ahead.
MS. BROWN: And so when he told me that it just -- it didn't
really matter what the four of us thought.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I said nothing of the sort.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And then what did he say to you?
MS. BROWN: That I was trouble. I was the instigator of all
this. And I don't mean to be that, but I have been trying to talk to Ms.
Phillippi about this, and we tried to go --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Have you ever been -- have you
received an explanation of what the final Immokalee Area Master Plan
amendment is proposing to do to Immokalee? Do you understand
what it's proposing to do? Has anyone ever clearly explained that to
you?
MS. BROWN: Well -- and that's another thing. You talk to the
individual CRA board members. They don't really understand what
the master plan's about.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So if I pulled any one of them up
here and started questioning them on that plan, they wouldn't know
what exactly is in there?
MS. BROWN: I would think that would probably be the answer,
yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, then I'm really concerned.
I'm seriously concerned.
MS. BROWN: I'm concerned about the density and also we have
-- we've got -- you know, we're trying to help Immokalee, to improve
it, I guess you would want to say. We would like to make it more of a
middle-class community, too. But 45 percent of the -- 45 percent of
Page 185
March 27, 2012
the property in Immokalee doesn't pay property taxes.
So if you keep on putting affordable housing into Immokalee,
just like in Commissioner Fiala's district, it's going to turn us upside
down. And nobody will want to come there with their families and go
to school there and go to the downtown plazas if we don't have a good
mixture and a good balance of our community in Immokalee.
I've lived there all my life. I mean, I think I've got the most
vested interest in anybody in this room right now about what happens
in Immokalee. I mean, my great grandfather came there and had a,
you know, hardware store, trading post there. He was with the
Indians. So if I don't have a vested interest, there's something wrong.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Now, you also said something
about the loop road as just one issue related to, you know, the actual
cost of the infrastructure of implementing this plan which -- by the
way, we have not been advised what the cost to the county will be of
supplying the infrastructure for the change in the uses out there.
I mean, to give you an example, they're proposing to increase the
intensity, which is the commercial development, by 60 percent. And,
I mean, it's just a phenomenal amount that they're proposing. I don't
have the number off the top of my head.
But if I remember correctly -- Nick, maybe you can correct me --
it's like millions of square feet of commercial development out there.
Now -- being proposed out there. Now --
MS. BROWN: That's going to be at the airport property, the
industrial?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, no.
MS. BROWN: In the Collier Enterprise property?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No. My understanding is that's in
addition to that.
MS. BROWN: No. That's --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But let's not get into the details.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: This little conversation between the two
Page 186
March 27, 2012
of you is off topic.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, it's not.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We're voting on an amendment.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's very on topic.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We've voted.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: What I would like is to know what
this is going to cost --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I don't think so.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- Collier County with respect to
the infrastructure, and I've never received that information.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. What's the next item, County
Manager? We're finished.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And I'd like that. Have you gotten
anything on that?
MS. BROWN: No. But I think Mr. Coyle wants to call for the
question, so --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: No. We've already voted on the
question. It's done. We're finished with this item.
MS. BROWN: Yes. Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: If you want to talk --
MS. BROWN: Thank you so much for your help. I appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- please go out in the hallway, and you
can talk all you want.
MR. OCHS: Commissioner, I'm not sure that you actually did
vote on this item. And I apologize if I'm wrong -- but you were about
to vote, and then Commissioner Henning had a question.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I thought we had -- 4-1 was the
vote, the way I understood it. But I'm --
MR. OCHS: No, it was 1-4 --
MR. MITCHELL: Sir, it was 1-4 against.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That's right.
All in favor of the motion, please signify by saying aye.
Page 187
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye, and the reason I'm opposing
it is because I would like to see this amendment go back to the
community for a full public vetting as opposed to coming straight to
the commission for a vote. I think the people have the right to an
education, and they have a right to be fully informed, and they're not.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I've got to reply.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, no. You keep saying that and, of
course, it's not true, because it's been stated time and time again that
there will be public meetings out in Immokalee. This is a motion to
make it possible to bring it back. That's all it is. It is a motion to bring
it back. Once you get a motion --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But we don't need -- we don't need
to amend this to do that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Once you get a motion to bring it back,
then you schedule the public meetings in Immokalee, and you get the
input. And then after you get the input, you bring it to the Board of
County Commissioners and you have another public meeting.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Sorry, Commissioner Coyle.
That's not the way it works for reconsiderations.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I've got to speak, sir. I'm sorry.
I really do.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: There's no point in doing this, because
they keep telling the same lies all over.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I know. The whole process, the
way it went forward, I told everybody on that master plan, from day
one, whatever your final direction on this plan will be, I'll support you.
And when they took the vote at the very end to be able to approve the
Page 188
March 27, 2012
master plan with or without the Blocker issue in it, once again, I told
them the same thing, do what your heart tells you to do. However you
vote, I'm going to support it, so don't expect me to try to change
anybody's mind.
They voted to not do that, not include the Blocker issue in the
plan. They voted to approve the master plan. Well, there was a lot of
hullabaloo in the community by certain people. The Master Plan
Committee had dissolved.
So what happened was, is they turned it back to the CRA to make
sure everybody understood what was taking place. The CRA met,
listened to the whole issue, and the vote was something like 6-2 to
proceed with the master plan as you've seen it.
So it's the will of the people of Immokalee I'm trying to follow.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's not.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, County Manager. Let's --
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
Item #1 1 A
DIRECTION REGARDING MODIFICATION OR ELIMINATION
OF PLANNING COMMUNITIES - MOTION TO ACCEPT
STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Next item on your agenda is Item 11A. It's a
recommendation to provide direction regarding modification or
elimination of planning communities.
Mr. David Weeks, your Comprehensive Planning Manager, will
present.
MR. WEEKS: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm David
Weeks of the Comprehensive Planning Section in the Growth
Management Division. I have just a few points to bring up and then
request your action.
Page 189
March 27, 2012
Specifically, this item is requesting your direction whether or not
to leave the planning community boundaries as they exist, to eliminate
them, or to modify them. The staff recommendation is to modify the
boundaries.
Planning communities have existed for about the last 30 years,
and they comprise the entire unincorporated area of Collier County.
On the visualizer is the map, which is also in your backup data, and it
is the map of the existing planning community boundaries.
Staff generates and compiles a variety of data by planning
communities such as population estimates and projections, number of
dwelling units, commercial and industrial inventory, et cetera. The
purpose of planning communities is to have data at a subcounty level.
Data is available, most particularly, from the Census Bureau at the
countywide level, but that can be deceptive if we're looking at
subareas of the county, for example, if we were to compare
Immokalee with the Greater Naples area, the racial and ethnic
makeup, the income levels, the occupancy and vacancy rates, et
cetera, et cetera.
The specific areas of the county can be very different from the
countywide average, and that's why planning communities were first
created back in the 1980s, and they've been used since.
How is planning community data used? Well, county staff uses
it in various reports and studies, most particularly those related to
Growth Management Plan amendments, some GMP amendments.
The Collier County School District also uses planning
community population and dwelling unit data, and that is a
requirement that we provide subcounty data to the school district
required by the interlocal agreement that we have with the school
district. It doesn't have to be by planning community, but some
subcounty level data must be provided to the school district annually.
Staff also uses it as backup data for the state-mandated
Evaluation and Appraisal Report to our Growth Management Plan,
Page 190
March 27, 2012
which was most recently approved just last year.
And on that note, it was during the adoption hearing of the
Evaluation and Appraisal Report last year that this subject matter of
considering changes to planning community boundaries was raised.
Mr. Chuck Mohlke raised the question about changing the boundaries,
indicated that some of them, he believed, were outdated, no longer
feasible, and also Commissioner Fiala, for years, has also expressed
some concern about, most particularly, the East Naples planning
community and others in that general area.
I would want to point out that the planning community
boundaries are not political boundaries. Any correlation with political
boundaries is coincidental with exception of the fact that they
specifically do follow the city boundaries, because they are excluded
from planning communities.
The three choices that the commission has; one is status quo; that
is do nothing. Staff will continue to compile data by the existing
planning community boundaries and use that.
Secondly would be the exact opposite, and that is to eliminate the
planning community boundaries. If you do that, I would suggest to
you that there will be some negative impact upon customer service
because there are some entities that use planning community data. I
mentioned a while ago county staff and the school district, but also
certain nonprofit organizations, businesses, and the general public, at
one time or another, use planning community data.
The third option, and that is the one that staff is recommending,
is to modify the planning communities, and there will be a cost to do
that, most of which is covered by existing staff. We would suggest
that there would be at least one public meeting held so that the -- prior
to coming to the county commissioners for a final action on adopting
new boundaries in order to vet the proposed maps before the public.
And staff would propose that multiple maps be presented for the
public's consideration, one of which would be County Commission
Page 191
March 27, 2012
districts. But the actual staff time is estimated to be between 6- and
$12,000, and there would be advertising costs for the one public
meeting or more, if the board should direct, and that would be in the
neighborhood of$650. That's for a one-eighth page ad in the Naples
Daily News.
Commissioners, with that, I would ask for your direction.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. I'd like to make a motion to
approve your recommendation, Mr. Weeks. I think you're absolutely
right. I think these planning districts do need to be relooked at and
updated. So I support your recommendation.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Motion by Commissioner Hiller.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Second by Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, I'm Fiala.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: No, he --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh. Did he say it?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: He seconded it first.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: To realign the planning communities,
right?
MR. WEEKS: I'll just say modify.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: To modify, adjust.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. And Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. David, how often each year do
people come in to find out what the planning communities do? What
I'm looking to really find out is, is there really a definite need for
them? I mean, if the -- I don't know because it would be hard to tell.
Marco is way out of shape, and whoever heard of Royal Fakapalm,
and then there's South Naples and East Naples, and people don't --
Page 192
March 27, 2012
aren't able to distinguish between those.
And so I was wondering, how often do people really need them
anymore? I realize it was -- it's almost 30 years old.
MR. WEEKS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So do we really need to do this?
MR. WEEKS: It's a difficult question to answer how -- I can tell
you that not very often do people come in to see us because the data
that we compile, much of it is available on our website.
And so ever since the technology has changed, we've had far less
interaction with the public. If we went back ten years or more, I could
tell you more specifically, yes, we do get people coming in and
requesting the data.
Sometimes the agents for applications to amend the Growth
Management Plan use planning community data. Mr. Chuck Mohlke,
most particularly, is one that does that. We used to get -- again, in the
past, before data was readily available via the website, we would get
inquiries from nongovernmental organizations, nonprofits, sometimes
businesses that were looking to either expand or relocate their
organization or their facility or their business, and they were looking
for demographic data, most particularly.
But as far as today, actual personal contact, it's not that often.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, I didn't think so, because they
really -- to most people, they don't make any sense anyway, some of
the names and some of the configurations.
I really did Chuck Mohlke a disservice. I should have called him
and let him know it was on here. I did not, and I -- if he happens to be
looking at it, I certainly apologize, because I should have called him.
MR. WEEKS: Well, Commissioner, I did communicate with Mr.
Mohlke, and I did provide him the executive summary and the data.
So I believe he was aware of today's meeting.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Good, good, good.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All in favor, please signify by saying
Page 193
March 27, 2012
aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: (No verbal response.)
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Motion passes unanimously.
MR. WEEKS: Thank you.
MR. OCHS: How's the court reporter?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It's at, what, 4:30 we take a break, right?
You've got one more minute.
MR. OCHS: I can't even read this title in one minute.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You can't do another one in one minute?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Didn't she just have a break?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Then we're going to take a break.
We'll be back here at 4:40.
(A brief recess was had.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. We're ready to go on --
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- what item?
Item #11C
CONTRACT #11-5782 WITH AECOM TECHNICAL SERVICES,
INC., CDM SMITH INC. AND HOLE MONTES, INC., FOR
THREE CONTRACTS FOR "WASTEWATER BASIN
ANALYSES," PROJECT NUMBERS 70043, 70044, 70046, 70050,
70051, AND 70064, IN THE ESTIMATED AMOUNT OF
$2,000,000 PER YEAR FOR EACH CONSULTANT, OR A
TOTAL ANNUAL AMOUNT OF $6,000,000 WITH A
Page 194
March 27, 2012
CONTRACT LENGTH OF 6-YEARS, TO PERFORM
PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING SERVICES WITH ONE
ENGINEERING CONSULTANT BEING ASSIGNED TO EACH
OF THE THREE BASINS SELECTED FOR ANALYSIS -
MOTION TO DENY AND HAVE STAFF TO COME BACK WITH
MORE REALISTIC NUMBERS ON THE CONTRACT THAT
ARE RELATIVE TO THE ENGINEERING COSTS AS
COMPARED TO THE CONSTRUCTION COSTS — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Item 11C.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: 11C.
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, it's a recommendation to approve a
contract with three engineering firms for a period of six years to
perform professional engineering services related to --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. You have three minutes.
MR. OCHS: Okay.
MR. PAGER: Great.
MR. OCHS: There you go.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That was three minutes, not 30 minutes.
MR. PAGER: Commissioners, my name, for the record, is Craig
Pager. I'm the Principal Project Manager responsible for wastewater
projects in the Planning and Project Management Department of the
Public Utilities Division.
I'm available to answer any questions that you may have. I also
have a slide presentation. If you'd like me to proceed with that, I'll do
so.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: There's no information in the
contracts. I'd like the complete --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. You've got to go through the
slide presentation.
MR. PAGER: Sure, okay. At the February 14th commission
meeting, the board approved the short list ranking of consulting firms
Page 195
March 27, 2012
for Proposal No. 11-5782 and recommended that we come back to you
for the contract approval.
The objective today is to obtain your approval for expert
professional engineering services to ensure the proper and sound
analysis, design, and construction of our wastewater collection
systems.
There are three basins that are included in the wastewater basin
analyses. These three basins were selected based on
boots-on-the-ground analysis, evaluation of the condition of our
infrastructure by our wastewater collection team, by the age of the
infrastructure, and by the environmental sensitivity in the areas
surrounding these basins.
Master Pump Station Basin 101 is in the Naples Park community
and also includes Gulf Shore Drive. And, as you know, that's a very
highly developed tourist area.
Master Pump Station Area 306 is the area south and west of U.S.
41. It goes from the Gateway Triangle area to Sabal Bay.
Master Pump Station Basin 305 is the area north of U.S. 41 from
the Gordon River to the Lakewood community that is north of U.S.
41.
This is an aerial exhibit of the Master Pump Station 101 area. It
was one of the first areas in Collier County to be sewered. It was
designed by CH2MHi11 in the 1970s. They were commissioned to
design your first wastewater treatment plant, and associated with that
was the wastewater collection system infrastructure that fed the north
wastewater treatment plant.
This area has high groundwater in it, and there's -- it also has a
source of wastewater inflow, meaning the stormwater leaks into the
wastewater collection system. We need to have a cost-effective
solution to make certain that we don't treat extraneous wastewaters
entering our system.
In addition, there's some very high vulnerability of potential
Page 196
March 27, 2012
wastewater sewer overflows that would go into our pristine waters.
Currently, our wastewater collection team has to send pumper trucks
to this area during the rainy season so that we will prevent any
wastewater system overflows into the Gulf of Mexico.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Is this county or city?
MR. PAGER: This is county. Everything in this -- these
analyses are located within the county.
Our infrastructures needs to correct the wastewater -- our
infrastructure needs to be corrected to accommodate the wastewater
flows generated within this community.
The Glades service area was an independent private utility that
the county took over in the 1980s, which is located in this Master
Pump Station Area 305.
Collier County authorized the design of the Wastewater Basins
308 and 309 in the 1980s in the design and development of the East
and South Naples Wastewater Collection Program.
The Basin 309B is the industrial -- I'm sorry -- the Naples
Industrial Park, and that was developed as an MSTU and was served
by the Glades prior to the county taking over the Glades facility.
Master Pump Station 306 consists of three subbasins. They were
all designed at the same time in the 1980s, and this area is very
environmentally sensitive in that any wastewater system overflows in
this area would flow into the Gordon River.
In your executive summary, there is a table that shows the
projects that would be used to fund this program. And this exhibit is
expanded a little bit to show what the current fiscal-year budget is for
those program areas. There is no additional funding being requested
for this program, and everything would come out of the budget that
had been previously approved by the board.
Throughout our refurbishment of our wastewater collections
programs, we've learned lessons throughout the years. Some of the
lessons learned from our experience are, one, there continues to be
Page 197
March 27, 2012
extraneous inflow sources that allow stormwater to enter our
wastewater collection system during rainfall events. This program
will identify those inflow sources and recommend corrective action.
As shown in the photo in the lower left, our piping systems are
quite intricate, and we need to have very qualified, highly-trained
engineers that are experienced and knowledgeable in designing these
types of systems.
The photo on the right shows the whole and some of the pipes
discharging into our master pump station, the 302 that was
rehabilitized about two or three years ago. It's located on Santa
Barbara Boulevard and Rattlesnake Hammock Road.
This exhibit is an asset breakdown of all of the various
wastewater system components in each of these three basins.
The 101 basin is the largest basin that we have, and it has the
greatest number of customer service connections.
The Basin 305 has the largest number of wastewater pump
stations, and then Basin 306 is sort of an average number of assets
between -- average between the 101 basin and the 305 basin.
We also show what percentage of our total wastewater collection
is represented by these three basins. And in the column on the far
right, it shows how quickly or how often we'd be able to go back and
look at these assets to make certain that they meet current-day
standards and that they're rehabilitated.
Normally, the review period for these types of facilities would be
20 years, but you can see from this exhibit that even with the
implementation of this program, we won't be going to visit the
facilities and rehabbing them within the 20-year time horizon.
We all know that in this economic day and age that we're
cost-contained and revenue-centric. We are trying to align our
infrastructure evaluations within the budgets that have been
established by the Board of County Commissioners.
And based on the outcome of this program, we will analyze the
Page 198
March 27, 2012
wastewater systems in the remaining basins that we have in our
system, and we'll make certain that everything is in sync with our
asset-management initiative that we've recently undertaken.
This contract is the first full-scale initiative to address our
infrastructure needs on a basin-by-basin basis.
We were very fortunate to negotiate very favorable terms with
the three engineering consultants that were selected. With the effort of
our purchasing department and PPMD staff, we were able to negotiate
engineering rates that are the same as those that we received three
years ago in the fixed-term engineering contracts, which is No.
09-5246. All three firms have agreed to the three-year-old
engineering rates that were in that contract.
In addition, this is a six-year contract, and they've agreed to keep
those rates for that six-year time period. So the negotiations are very
favorable in our favor.
Because we're going to be having three different firms
performing these services, what we'll be able to do is look at how each
of the firms goes about undertaking this process. We'll learn from that
so in subsequent basin analyses we'll be able to make certain that we
get the best value and that we use the right technique, right
technologies for analyzing those systems.
The hours for each of the phases of work will be benchmarked
with each of the three consultants so that we'll know which firm does
the best job, and we'll have that for use in projecting costs for our
future wastewater basin analyses.
One of the advantages to bundling the engineering and
construction services associated with this program is that we'll be able
to minimize staff time by PPMD. In preparing the purchase orders
and work authorizations with the consultants, our purchasing staff will
have less number of work orders and purchase orders to have to deal
with, and the Clerk's Office will have less work orders and purchase
orders to review with the implementation of this program because
Page 199
March 27, 2012
we'll be limited to the three contracts that are being proposed today.
That is the end of my presentation.
I'm sorry. I did forget to mention a couple of things. The work
that comes out of this will be used to assist in our Asset Alignment
Program, our Asset Management Program, the Wastewater
Infrastructure Refurbishment Program, and the data will be used to
hydraulically model our wastewater system so that we can optimize
the operation of our pump stations and master pump stations in our
wastewater system. And this ensures system operability 24/7, 365.
So with that, we would recommend that you approve the
recommendations in the executive summary and that you authorize the
chairman to execute contracts with each vendor.
I'll open it up to questions that you may have.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. I'm very concerned. When
I read this and I totaled it up, we're basically committing to $36
million in contracts to three firms for a six-year period. I mean, that is
just over the top. I can't imagine why you would want to have a
six-year contract with each of these firms and commit when, quite
frankly, prices have been going down, not up.
And so for you to describe them as doing us a favor by keeping
prices the same as in 2009, I'm concerned about that because, quite
frankly, I see the trend in an opposite direction. I mean, I see these
engineering firms and these consulting firms desperately looking for
work. So to suggest that this is a favor, I would tend to disagree.
I also looked at the firms that you were ranking, and I want an
explanation for why -- you know, you picked the three, and I'm
assuming they're the same three that you had earlier, since you
mentioned that they kept their prices the same. But I would like to
know what was the basis for your rejecting Tetra, Greeley; Agnoli,
Barber; and Corollo.
MR. PAGER: I'll answer the first question. The reason that we
Page 200
March 27, 2012
have a six-year contract is because we're looking at this as a five-year
program. Not all the work will be done immediately, but it will be
spread out over five years. The reason for a six-year term is so that
we can finish up all the work that was done the first five years.
Many times construction goes a little bit further than the
five-year program period. So the six-year was just to cover the
completion of the construction.
Your question regarding the firms that were selected, the process
that we went through in selecting these firms, is the competitive --
Consultants Competitive Negotiation Act, CCNA, and the selection
committee, which consisted of six different members of the
wastewater team and also facilities management, evaluated the
qualifications of all the firms, and based on the qualifications that
were submitted to us for review, we ranked the firms based on
qualifications. So the top three firms that were ranked were those
three firms that were selected under this contract.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But let's talk about that. Let's take
Agnoli, Barber as an example. I mean, they are reputed in this
particular area. In fact, they did all the engineering work for
Immokalee for their stormwater management design.
So, I mean, I'm not really sure how, you know, Agnoli, Barber
ranks lower based on qualifications with the other three that you've
identified at the top. I mean, I'd like to have an explanation. I'd like
to know exactly what are the qualifications that these other firms have
that are superior to this one or, for example, Tetra.
MR. OCHS: Commissioner, if I might just interrupt.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah.
MR. OCHS: Just as a reminder. As it stated in the executive
summary, this board has already approved, back in February, the short
listing of these firms.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay.
MR. OCHS: Okay. So I mean, that whole explanation was part
Page 201
March 27, 2012
of the executive summary and the board approval.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Then -- you know, then I'd like to
have my memory refreshed.
MR. PAGER: The -- first of all, this is a wastewater --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Because I was not -- I do not recall
that we approved this for $36 million in contracts. I mean, that was
not my understanding.
MR. OCHS: You approved the short-listing of the top three
ranked firms and authorized the staff to negotiate contracts and bring
them back then for board consideration, and that's where we were.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, I appreciate that. Thank you
for clarifying that. So can you go ahead and tell me what the
qualifications are?
MR. PAGER: I can't recall explicitly what the qualifications
were, but I will say that there were six people on the committee, and
they all used their engineering judgment or their wastewater
experience judgment in looking at the qualifications of the firms.
And I'll just give you some examples. CDM is an international
firm that has a local office in Fort Myers. They had submitted with
their qualifications a report for the City of Miami Beach. In that city
they have prepared an infiltration inflow analysis, and the report that
was generated from that engineering work was excellent, some of the
best that I had ever seen.
So in my professional opinion, as an engineer having done this
for many years, they really stood out as a firm that knew what they
were doing.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: As opposed to a local firm like
Agnoli, Barber that is well-reputed and well-known in the
community? I mean --
MR. OCHS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And let me just ask also one other
question. Just so I understand for my clarification, this is not just for
Page 202
March 27, 2012
consulting? This is for consulting as well as for the underlying
construction?
MR. PAGER: It is for the analysis of the wastewater systems,
the determination of flow generation within each basin, the design of
rehabilitation facilities, and the post-design services where the
construction administration portion of--
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So it's strictly the engineering?
MR. PAGER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And so strictly for the engineer
we're looking at essentially $12 million per basin? How much is the
construction going to cost? How much is the actual physical work?
MR. PAGER: Our estimate of the construction cost is
approximately $60 million.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: For each basin or total?
MR. PAGER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So for each basin?
MR. PAGER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So it's $60 million and $12
million.
MR. PAGER: I'm sorry?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's $60 million and the consulting
and design work for the 60 million per basin, so that's 180 million for
the three basins?
MR. PAGER: Actually, I misstated. It's 60 for all three basins,
so it's $20 million per basin.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So we are paying $12 million in
engineering for $20 million in construction?
MR. PAGER: The contract amount is a maximum. It is not what
it's going to be awarded to those consultants.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Then -- so what's realistic?
MR. PAGER: I can't tell you what the number is going to be at
this point in time, but --
Page 203
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: This is -- if we approve this, this is
carte blanche to go up to 2 million, and now you're telling me that the
construction component for each basin is $20 million.
I can't understand -- that just -- you know, we've got engineering
costs that are over 50 percent of the actual construction costs?
MR. PAGER: No. Typically, the engineering fees would be
somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 percent of the construction
costs.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's exactly right. So it should
be 2 million total per company, not 12 million per company. I mean,
this is inflated by $30 million.
MR. PAGER: The professional services associated with this
program are more than just the design. It's the analysis of the system,
the determining how much stormwater is entering our system. It's
doing an analysis to make concern --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No. I understand that you're
getting all these services.
MR. PAGER: Right.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's still disproportionate to the cost
of the project. I mean, you're telling me that the project cost is $20
million and you're telling me the engineering consulting services, as
you're listing them, is $12 million, which is basically, you know, what
-- I don't know -- I have to --
MR. PAGER: I'm not telling you that that's what the cost is
going to be. That's just the maximum amount of the contract.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, it shouldn't be. We shouldn't
have a maximum amount of the contract. We should have a realistic
amount of the contract. We shouldn't have a contract that exceeds
more than what we should be paying for this type of work. And if
there is additional work that needs to be done or if circumstances are
different, then come back with a change order.
But I'm going to make a motion to deny and ask that you come
Page 204
March 27, 2012
back with a realistic contract that represents what the value of these
consulting services are relative to the construction cost.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm going to second that motion.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Motion to deny by Commissioner Hiller,
second by Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: May I ask?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. Usually engineering and
permitting is no more than 15 percent of your cost.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I don't know what we're looking
at. This is an aging system, correct?
MR. PAGER: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Why do we want to know how
much stormwater is coming into it? Obviously, we know the pipes
need to be replaced. The thing needs to be rehabilitated, but even
what you explain in your PowerPoint presentation doesn't match what
is in Schedule A of the contract.
What I -- there's -- what I heard you say, there's a lot of study of a
system that we're going to rip apart and replace, which we should
replace if it's that old, and I think that you would probably agree. But
the contract doesn't match what you told us.
And, furthermore, if we're replacing it, just engineer it to replace
it.
MR. PAGER: The -- well, one of the things that we don't want
to do is to allow stormwater to come into our system, to increase the
size of the pumps, and then the next time around we have more
stormwater come --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Why do you think the
stormwater's coming in?
MR. PAGER: The system is aging and the joints between the
pipes weaken and allow --
Page 205
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You're going to either replace
that or just leave it. Are you going to -- I mean, there's mechanisms
that you can stick a rubber tube and flow it in.
MR. PAGER: Correct. And that's exactly why we're doing the
analysis so that we know what areas we need to do that. We won't
know where to do that in our system if we don't do an analysis, do a
televising the lines to say that these are leaking and we need to fix this
area, so --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But in the contract it doesn't say
anything about camera telemetry.
MR. PAGER: Well, it does. It's just that the terminology may
not be what you're accustomed to seeing. We refer to the infiltration
inflow studies and also the sewer system rehabilitation studies. The
sewer system rehabilitation studies, as defined by EPA, include the
televising of lines and coming up with a report to tell you where you
need to do some rehabbing of your wastewater systems.
So that's, by definition, what EPA calls a sewer system
evaluation at SSES.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It seems like a lot of money,
$36 million, to stick a camera down there to tell you where the breaks
are.
MR. PAGER: Those are maximum numbers, sir.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, but --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that's what you're going to
spend.
MR. PAGER: I don't agree with that at all, because we're very
diligent in making certain that we don't spend any more money than
we have to. I live in this county, too, and I pay sewer and water rates,
and I don't like paying my $100 bill every month, so --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What should be --
MR. PAGER: We're very cognizant of costs to our ratepayers.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner Hiller -- well,
Page 206
March 27, 2012
okay. Commissioner Hiller said it correctly, the allocation of funds
should be what you're going to expend, and that's very true.
MR. PAGER: Well, unfortunately, we have -- you have to --
well, first of all, you have to have contract limits and, secondly, we
don't want to hit a ceiling where we don't have the money authorized
and we can't do more --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You don't want to come back.
MR. PAGER: I don't mind coming back at all.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. I cannot -- I cannot
consciously vote on this contract. I mean, it is way over the top.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'm speechless.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Is there some type of a time
limit on this?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Six years.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No. I meant when we have to have
it done, or is there a -- can we -- can we bring it back again and take a
look at it? If we deny it now or even just postpone it so that then we
can get a better understanding of these figures. Because I have to tell
you, it really does sound very high for just the engineering services.
MR. OCHS: It could be brought back, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah.
MR. OCHS: Yeah. If that's the pleasure of the board.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Let's call the question.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Because I bet you could replace all
the pipes for this amount.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Correct.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Hiller made a motion to
deny this, and Commissioner Henning seconded it.
Now, is -- is denying it the thing you want to do, Board, or do
you want to --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, when you deny --
Page 207
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- bring it back?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: When you deny it, when I say
"deny," they, of course, always have the option of bringing it back.
We don't have to tell them to bring it back. That's obviously what
they're going to do.
But what I would like to say -- and what I'm very concerned
about is, I hope we're not engaging in the practice of putting
maximums in the contracts as the amounts that we're approving as
opposed to realistically what we expect to expend on a project,
whether it's a consulting project or a construction project. Tell me that
that's not what's been going on with other contracts, and not just
utilities, but across the board, you know, throughout the county.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I haven't seen that.
MR. YILMAZ: Commissioner --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I just want to be sure that this isn't
going on and that this is a unique situation, which I hope will not
repeat itself.
MR. YILMAZ: For the record, George Yilmaz, Interim Public
Utilities Administrator.
As a follow-up to what our county manager indicated, we'll be
more than happy to bring this back.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Sure.
MR. YILMAZ: But I just want to share with you a couple points
without taking more time than we have taken on this agenda.
A number of commissioners raised the awesome questions and
deserve diligent answers. But one of the things I want to point out is
that this program includes -- we're looking at close to -- between Basin
101, 305, 306, we've got 111 lift stations included in assessments,
right-sizing, designing, and modernizing what are the worst stations
that we have identified. That 111 lift stations are equal to only 2.9
percent of our total system.
The other example I want to share with you is the force mains.
Page 208
March 27, 2012
We've gone through the force mains and addressed the worst in light
of asset management coming through, going back to some of the
comments our Commissioner Henning did (sic) in the past.
Under this program, we are be -- we will be addressing only 1.5
percent of our force mains that will be at rest next five years under this
engineering design. Of course, when we talk about force mains, it's
not just the pipe. We've got the valves, we've got the ARVs and what
have you. And last six months to eight months we did have old flows
all the way to 30,000 gallon into water base, and water waste from
ARV valves because of the age, because of the malfunction and not
meeting the standards in terms of corrosion control and what have
you.
And we're looking at close to, total, over 1,000 ARVs we've got,
and under this study, between three basins, we are only addressing 80
of those 1,073 ARVs.
I think the point here is we'll do more than bring it back before
the board, but I want to leave the board and board members
individually and collectively with the thought that this is full-scale
implementation of our pilot program.
The amounts we have is up-to amounts. And going back to
Commissioner Hiller's good question is that the ranges, 20- to $30
million being most probable, not to exceed what we have here is the
cap. Those are the internal controls. We went through due diligence.
And we did have a teleconference with Crystal, and we've gone
through our internal controls and internal processes, and we did have
the green light disclosing our internal controls and internal processes
in terms of how we go through this process.
With that, I'll leave it to our county manager and, like I said,
we're here to execute direction and guidance we receive from our
county manager under your overall guiding principles.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, George, one of the things --
MR. YILMAZ: Yes.
Page 209
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- that troubles me is that it's very
difficult to define deliverables here.
MR. YILMAZ: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You haven't defined the number of miles
of pipe that have to be inspected. You don't have, to the best of my
knowledge, a cost per mile for the inspection.
MR. YILMAZ: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: There isn't a definition of what it costs to
replace and/or overhaul a lift pump. You know, those are specific
kinds of tasks.
MR. YILMAZ: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And it is very difficult for anyone to get
their arms around the significance of this project and its associated
cost.
MR. YILMAZ: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So it's hard to determine whether we are
getting the most we can get out of this project.
And I am just reminded of a much simpler and shorter project
that the City of Naples undertook when they found stormwater
infiltration in their sewer system. They identified a particular area,
they inspected the pipes, they knew how many miles of pipe they had
in that particular area, and then as a result of that inspection with a
camera from the inside, they got an estimate for what it would take to
line the appropriate -- the pipes that had to be lined and how much it
would cost to take out and replace those that had to be taken out and
replaced. And then that was the next step. You got a bid on getting
that done.
But at least you were working from the standpoint of certain
knowledge that you knew which ones had to be replaced, which ones
could be relined.
So that's the thing that troubles me about this. It's very vague
from the standpoint of measuring deliverables in order to make sure
Page 210
March 27, 2012
that you're getting the best possible price. That's my concern.
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. We understand the board's intent. We
will rework this and make it much more specific --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MR. OCHS: -- and bring it back when it's ready, if that's the vote
of the --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, let's see what the vote --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yes. Now -- can I just say -- can I
mention something?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yes, please, but let's get --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I agree with what Commissioner
Coyle said, and I think that there's also a problem that, you know,
what we're describing as essentially the repairs and replacements that
will be needed really should be first identified in this overall
asset-management plan that we keep waiting on. We have no idea
what the total picture is. And what concerns me the most about what
you said, Dr. George, is that, you know, you're describing that this
represents 2 percent and this represents 3 percent, and we're talking
about these millions and millions of dollars. Well, you know, now I'm
thinking, you know, the actual obligation that the county has for
visiting these pumps and pipes and everything else is going to be
astronomical.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And it probably will.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So -- yeah. And because if you're
here saying it represents 2.6 percent and only 3.4 percent and it costs
this much to do these many stations, how --
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am. But they -- the staff also reminded
you that these costs are programmed into your five-year CIE for
utilities. They're already programmed into your current rate structure
and study, so --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. But I'm actually concerned
that they're not realistic, because we haven't done the
Page 211
March 27, 2012
asset-management analysis that's required to make a determination,
realistically, of what are costs to, you know, maintain, repair, and
replace. So, I mean, my motion stands, you're going to bring it back.
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I mean it's obvious that that's part
of the deal. So it's just, you know, motion to deny, and then go ahead
and bring it back.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. All in favor of the motion --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, let me ask the county
attorney, when you make a motion like that, can you bring it back?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Sure.
MR. KLATZKOW: My understanding of the motion is we're
denying the executive summary as it stands, direction to the staff to
come back with a new executive summary in conformance to the
board's discussions.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right, exactly. Thank you. You
say that so nicely.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: The reason I asked that is because
sometimes when they say "deny," then you haven't been able to bring
it back, so --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, no. We're not denying it.
We've made that clear. We're definitely --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. All in favor of Commissioner --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Bringing it back.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- Hiller's motion as restated by the
county attorney, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
Page 212
March 27, 2012
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It passes unanimously.
Okay. That brings us to Item --
MR. OCHS: 11D.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- 11D.
Item #11D
TO NOT RENEW THE SUBCONTRACTED TRANSPORTATION
PROVIDER (STP) AGREEMENT WITH THE FLORIDA
COMMISSION FOR THE TRANSPORTATION
DISADVANTAGED (FCTD) THAT IS DUE TO EXPIRE JUNE 30,
2012 FOR THE PROVISION OF TRANSPORTATION FOR
QUALIFIED MEDICAID RECIPIENTS - MOTION TO APPROVE
STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: It's a recommendation to not renew the
subcontracted transportation provider agreement with the Florida
Commission for the Transportation Disadvantaged due to expire on
June 30, 2012, with a provision of transportation for qualified
Medicaid recipients.
And, Ms. Arnold, your Director of Alternative Transportation
Modes, will present.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I think we understand --
MS. ARNOLD: Okay.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- the executive summary. Can you
answer the question that was raised earlier today? Do you know why
we have so many out-of-county transports for Medicaid recipients?
MS. ARNOLD: Why we have so many out-of-county transports
for Medicaid? It's based on those clients that are Medicaid recipients
that have been approved through the Medicaid system and have
Page 213
March 27, 2012
requested trips that have been qualified as Medicaid-qualified trips.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: But do we know why they're
Medicaid-qualified trips? Why does somebody want to have
transportation to go from here to Tallahassee?
MS. ARNOLD: Well, I think some of the reasons why is -- was
stated before, we don't have as many medical -- Medicaid providers
within Collier County, which is an over -- you know, a larger issue
than you-all can resolve at this meeting, because there are no
Medicaid physicians that are accepting some of these clients, and then
some of the reasons are also that they have become accustomed to
going to some of these other locations.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: For their own convenience, not because
of necessity.
MS. ARNOLD: Their own convenience, yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So that implies that if we want to reduce
the costs, we need to have a better gatekeeper function so that we can
screen out unnecessary trips.
MS. ARNOLD: And that, we would have to get assistance from
the TD Commission --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That's right, that's right.
MS. ARNOLD: -- because some of the approval process is being
done at that level.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So that leads me to the conclusion that
the only way we can resolve this issue is to find a private provider,
either a not-for-profit or for-profit, for that matter.
MS. ARNOLD: Well, the way to resolve it is to discontinue the
contract, because if we continue the contract and solicit, as was noted
before, we're still responsible for the program.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MS. ARNOLD: If we discontinue the contract, it would be the
responsibilities of the Commission for the Transportation
Disadvantaged to find a provider, and that provider could be, in their
Page 214
March 27, 2012
case, nonprofit, or they could be a private provider. It's whomever
responds to their solicitation.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. So you believe that the best
solution is for us not to engage --
MR. OCHS: Renew.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- in this Medicaid program?
MS. ARNOLD: Correct, not to continue, and that would be --
and the reason why we're here today is our current contract requires a
90-day notification process, and this is the only meeting that we could
bring this issue to you to meet that notification requirement.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. I would make a motion to accept
your recommendation --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- that we not -- that we discontinue the
Medicaid and services contract. Okay. There's a --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I think Commissioner Henning already
did.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, did he? Oh, okay, I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Fiala.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- Coyle made a motion to approve the
staffs recommendations, seconded by Commissioner Henning and
Commissioner Fiala. That gives us three votes, so --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But I have one question. Now this
private --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So let's knock off all the conversation
and let's do it.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, I have to ask.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: With the private provider, we
cannot refuse a passenger, right --
Page 215
March 27, 2012
MS. ARNOLD: That's right.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- on Medicaid no matter where he
wants to go?
MS. ARNOLD: Right.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Can the private provider refuse one?
And if so, how can he refuse people and we can't?
MS. ARNOLD: I think that the way the private provider does
their screening process is more stringent probably than a local
government would normally do that. And so in order for them to even
get the request, it's going to be very difficult for that person to get to
that point, if I'm making --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: It will be more difficult for people
to get to medical appointments, right?
MS. ARNOLD: It would be difficult for them to qualify to get to
medical.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's -- yes. That's going to be a
problem, yeah.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, if there is a -- if there's a person
who needs dialysis --
MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- there are dialysis facilities here.
MS. ARNOLD: Within the county, correct.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: They might like a dialysis facility in
Miami, as was discussed earlier today. We're not in the business of
taking you where you want to go. We're in the business of getting you
where you can get the necessary treatment.
MS. ARNOLD: Correct. And --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And if you can get the necessary
treatment in Collier County, that's it.
MS. ARNOLD: Right. And we would be able to provide that
through our ADA program or our TD program in the county, not
outside of the county.
Page 216
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But the rest of that question was
then say, for instance, as we heard at our LCB meeting, the private
provider will, say, set a limit. I'll take 200 trips a month, period, and
so anybody that calls after that, they don't get passage to anything,
right, whether it be, you know, next door?
MS. ARNOLD: Well, they probably are going to try to control
the number of trips that they provide.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right.
MS. ARNOLD: But as I said, we are still providing services
internal. And, you know, for those trips that are being provided out of
the county at a convenience rather than an efficiency, maybe the
passenger might rethink that and consider an alternative within the
county.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I don't object to anything being out
of county. You know, I don't object to that at all. What I worry about
is the people that just, like, go to a Sunrise Academy five days a week,
and then after they've used their allotment up, they can't get there
anymore.
And, like the executive director said, they can't afford to get there
any other way, so they just have to stay home the rest of the time.
MS. ARNOLD: They'll be able to -- internal trips are not going
to be as much of an issue as the external trips.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Really? Okay.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. All in favor, please signify by
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
Page 217
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. It passes unanimously.
MS. ARNOLD: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you.
Item #1 1 E
STAFF REPORT ON THE STATUS OF THE ADVANCED LIFE
SUPPORT (ALS) ENGINE PROGRAMS - MOTION TO ACCEPT
REPORT — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: 11E is a recommendation to accept the staff report
on the status of the advanced life support engine programs. Chief
Kopka from EMS will present.
MR. KOPKA: Walter Kopka, Interim Chief for Collier County
EMS. I have a brief presentation for you today on the ALS engine
program. It was requested at the February 14th regular BCC meeting
we give you an update on that program.
City of Naples has been providing ALS engine service for the
past 14 years. The last interlocal agreement was signed by the BCC
back in 2007. They have -- currently have two ALS engines operating
in the city; one in downtown Naples off of 8th Avenue South and one
on 26th Avenue North.
One of those engines is staffed by a City of Naples
firefighter/paramedic, and one is staffed by a Collier County EMS
paramedic/firefighter.
The City of Marco, we've been having ALS engines there for the
past 13 years. They currently have at least two ALS engines in
service every day and sometimes three.
Once again, one of their engines is staffed by a county EMS
paramedic/firefighter, and one is staffed by a Marco -- City of Marco
paramedic/firefighter.
Both of these agreements -- interlocal agreements are on
Page 218
March 27, 2012
automatic renewals with the Board of County Commissioners and the
city councils.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You have three of them up there,
three listings.
MR. KOPKA: I'm sorry?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You said you had two ALS engines
on Marco, but you have one, one, and one here on this -- on the thing
that's up on the screen.
MR. KOPKA: Yeah. They have a third apparatus, Engine 50,
that is sometimes ALS, depending upon their staffing. There's that
minimum of two on Marco, and they sometimes have three depending
on the staffing with the fire department.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay, thank you.
MR. KOPKA: Ochopee Fire Department, we've had an ALS
engine there for the past three years. It is staffed by a county EMS
paramedic/firefighter and is stationed out of Port of the Islands.
Isles of Capri Fire Department, we've had an ALS engine there
for the past 12 years, and it is also staffed by a county EMS
paramedic/firefighter.
As you know, North Naples Fire Department has its own
COPCN for nontransport and, obviously, does not have an interlocal
agreement with Collier County. They do have 14 advanced life
support apparatus licensed with the State of Florida.
Back in mid December, the Office of the Medical Director, Dr.
Tober, sent a letter to the fire districts and North Naples Fire District
allowing them the full medication and protocol procedures. That was
done in mid December.
Since then we've had some talks with the City of Naples. They
are in the process of updating their paramedics with some additional
training. They have expressed an interest to add additional ALS
nontransport apparatus, the city, but no written confirmation from
them yet as to the advanced or the additional medications/procedures.
Page 219
March 27, 2012
We have received in writing from the City of Marco Fire
Department the desire to add the additional medications and
procedures. Some of that equipment is currently on those apparatus
today.
We did receive a letter from the North Naples Fire Control
District in reference to those additional medications. We're working
with them to help them with those additional medications and
procedures. We should have something more definite in the next few
weeks to get them updated with those medications.
Recently, the Big Corkscrew Island Fire District has requested
costs for providing advanced life support, non-transport apparatus.
The EMS department's provided those costs to the Big Corkscrew Fire
District, and we'll be meeting with them next week to follow up on
that.
What I have here is a map of the county. All these areas in red
are areas that are served by ALS engines. Immokalee and Big
Corkscrew are the gray areas. Once again, we're in the process of
working with them to see what type of ALS services they're able to
provide and costs associated with that.
And, obviously, Golden Gate in green and East Naples in yellow.
I'd be glad to answer any questions you have.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: They don't have any, right?
MR. KOPKA: Correct, they do not.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Motion to accept the report.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So made.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Motion to accept the report by
Commissioner Coyle, second by Commissioner Coletta.
All in favor, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
Page 220
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But I do have a question.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It passes unanimously.
MR. KOPKA: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And Commissioner Fiala has a question.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: The reason I had asked, originally,
to bring this up is I was saying I would like to get these other people
up with their ALS engines, too, because you've got a big hole there
without any ALS engines or any way to treat these people. They have
-- I know in East Naples, anyway, they have the staff to do it, but
they've not been allowed to. When is that going to take place?
MR. KOPKA: Ma'am, I agree. We do have a meeting scheduled
with the chief of East Naples for next week. He's expressed the same
concern. We're looking at other options to see what we can do to help
them, and we certainly agree.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Well, I would like to be kept
informed about that --
MR. KOPKA: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- because I feel there's a definite
need, and -- well, I won't go any further. I might not say something
very kind.
Item #1 1 H
DIRECTION REGARDING THE PROPOSED NEIGHBORHOOD
STABILIZATION PROGRAM 3 (NSP-3) ALTERNATIVE
STRATEGY AND ASSOCIATED IMPLEMENTATION ACTIONS
- BRING BACK AT NEXT MEETING WITH REFINED
NUMBERS — APPROVED
Page 221
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That takes us to Item No. H.
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. It's a recommendation to accept the staff
report and provide direction regarding the proposed Neighborhood
Stabilization Program 3 alternative strategy and associated
implementation actions.
Steve Carnell, your interim public services administrator, will
present or answer questions at the board's discretion.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. We've seen the executive
summary. We have the alternatives, which -- there's an alternative
that you've presented here.
MR. CARNELL: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That -- why don't you explain it to us
very quickly.
MR. CARNELL: Yeah. Let me -- Steve Carnell on behalf of
your Public Services Division.
Let's briefly recap where the board left things with the NSP exit
strategy in December. You'll remember --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Emphasize briefly.
MR. CARNELL: Yeah. We agreed to bring in Habitat for
Humanity to help us with the NSP3 funds disbursement and to get the
-- thank you, here we go -- to get that money spent. Let me take you
through this very quickly.
The -- there were four pieces with NSP 1. First off we had agreed
that the county would sell off completed homes to qualified buyers.
We transferred title to the non-rehabilitated homes to Habitat, and we
would procure not-for-profit groups to own and operate rental
housing. By the way, we took proposals today, and we've received
three, so the staffs going to be evaluating those.
And the county, of course, would have the role of monitoring for
compliance with the program throughout NSP 1.
Similarly, with NSP3 there were four prongs that were part of the
exit strategy to partner specifically with Habitat for Humanity, and
Page 222
March 27, 2012
this money in the range of a little over $3.8 million that we need to
expend over a two-year period in total. And, of course, the plan
included reimbursing Habitat for Humanity for the acquisition of
property.
They were to take the burden, then, of rehabilitating, using their
funds to rehabilitate the properties and, of course, our job would be to
monitor compliance with the program.
Now, briefly again, the benefits of this approach the board
previously adopted; it gets the county out of the property management
business, it gets us out of direct acquisition and rehab activity, having
to review pay requests for rehab activities, and having to track
program income, as all this would fall upon the private developer.
We felt like this was the lowest risk implementation and we were
partnering with the right partner which would, in turn, reduce audit
risk; somebody highly familiar with audit requirements for these types
of programs, someone able to meet all the compliance requirements,
and to leverage nonfederal dollars into the rehab effort.
Just again, to reemphasize, we look to Habitat for Humanity, had
this discussion, focused on them based on their experience, their
capacity, and their readiness and willingness to step forward and help
us with this.
Quickly, the question has been asked, can we competitively
procure these developer services? And can we, perhaps, alter the focus
of the dollars to try to spend more and target it with homes that are
purchased by individuals with 80 to 120 percent of the average median
income? And so I will address that in just a moment.
But as a jump-off point here, this is kind of the ingredients
warnings label in the discussion that we all need to understand.
Everybody understands that -- this is actually a literal quote from the
enacting notice for NSP3 when we received it a year ago. And it says
that NSP grantees must expend 50 percent of their grants within two
years and 100 percent within three years.
Page 223
March 27, 2012
So you take that language and subtract a year from both. We
have one year to expend 50 percent and two years to expend 100
percent. And it says -- it goes on to say that HUD will recapture and
reallocate the amount of funds not expended by those deadlines or
provide for other corrective actions or sanctions.
Your staff is not real crazy about the word "recapture and
reallocate," but we're especially squeamish about the phrase, "other
corrective actions or sanctions," and I think we all understand that we
want to stay away from all of that if possible. We need to stay on
track with what we're doing.
Now, again, one last point, then I'll talk to you about what the
alternatives and options may be here on the question that was raised.
Again, we want to caution you that we fear the unknown in terms of
what could happen if we don't meet our expenditure deadline. We
also fear the loss of credibility with HUD, other grantors, with the loss
of future grant opportunities and, frankly, if we don't get all the money
spent, then fewer foreclosed, abandoned homes were repaired, and
we're returned and restored to the local market and we didn't fulfill the
mission completely.
So with that disclaimer and warning, what I want to say to you is,
remember we have $3.8 million that we want to spend with Habitat.
Your staff does not believe that we can look any of you in the eye and
tell you that we could do all $3.8 million based on a competitive
procurement. You're too far into the process. We would not be
allowing the developer, whoever that might be who was selected
through the procurement process, sufficient time to meet the first year
deadline. Remember, a year from now we've got to have 50 percent of
the monies expended. We don't think that's realistic.
So what we're going to show you is an alternative option. We
can stay the course with what the existing strategy is, or we can take a
look at this alternative strategy. And it's basically a 50/50 split, as you
see.
Page 224
March 27, 2012
What we would do is, we would take half the money, in effect,
and we would task Habitat with -- under a developer agreement,
which we're scheduled to bring to you at the next meeting, and we
would say, Habitat, you have until March of 2013 to go out and spend
half the money, and the target would be to -- estimated target would
be 15 units that could get rehabbed, and these units would -- within the
composite of these units we would address the LH25 requirement or
the low-income set-aside where we would ensure that 25 percent of
the total money for the $3.8 million was spent on low-income homes
or households, their incomes, of meeting the 50 percent or less of the
average median income standard.
We'd go ahead and get that addressed in the first year. We would
spend half the funds. There would be, as I said a moment ago, no
county-funded rehabilitation activity taking place, and we would be
leveraging, of course, the experience of Habitat and -- which we think
would be extremely beneficial in getting off to the fastest start
possible.
The second piece of this would be that if we break the money in
half, in theory, we could competitively -- we could go look and
competitively pursue options for the other 1.9 million to competitively
let that and see if we could award a developer contract.
Now, remember, we're not just looking at the option of
competitive procurement here. The board -- the question was asked,
could we target the 80 to 120 percent average median income homes.
If we pursue that avenue, we would expect that we might not be able
to achieve 15 units, that the number might be slightly lower because
the cost of the homes could end up being slightly higher.
But the goal -- again, if we follow through with that second
piece, we would achieve 100 percent expenditure, which is the
overarching goal I was referring to a moment ago, we would stay out
of the rehab process, and we would make a good-faith effort at trying
to reach that 80 to 120 percent average median income audience, if
Page 225
March 27, 2012
you will, we would have gone through some kind of competitive
procurement process, and there is an opportunity to have, perhaps,
local interest take part in the competition process.
Now, again, this is my second sobering slide. The first one is,
"Don't be late," and we cannot afford to miss the expenditure date that
we've targeted.
The second piece is that your staff is skeptical as to what kind of
developers and what kind of competitive pool of developers is out
there. We're not here telling you absolute -- with absolute certainty
that there's no competitive alternative, but we're just not certain at this
point. And you have to understand that a developer who would
entertain submitting a proposal would have to go through that process,
they'd have to invest in the effort of going through the process, they
would have to be willing to be a property owner, they'd have to be
willing to invest, what we would estimate, as much as $600,000
collectively in the properties.
In our experience 40- to $50,000 is about what gets invested on
average for a property. So if you just do the math quickly, 50 times
12, $600,000, they would have to bring rehabilitation construction
experience, and they'd have to be willing to qualify buyers and market
the properties for sale.
Now, everything up to that bullet probably falls within the
domain of what a typical private developer would do. And no big
stretch so far other than the fact they've got to qualify pursuant to
HUD requirements. But then you get to the lower part of that slide.
They have to bring with them grant expertise. They have to be
compliant and aware and knowledgeable and savvy about the
requirements in the program that come from HUD at all steps of the
process.
Remember -- because we are really outsourcing a lot of the
activity to them, so they've got to be the knowledge experts. They're
going to have to have a capable, technical assistant, they're going to
Page 226
March 27, 2012
have to really be game knowledgeable about what the NSP
requirements are.
Yes, county staff will be monitoring, but it's not going to
function. If they -- monitoring is not the same thing as decision
making. They're going to have to make the decisions and they're
going to have to be able to manage the properties in a very timely and
efficient manner.
And they're going to have a -- potentially a 15-year obligation to
report on the properties, and they're also going to be constrained in
how they can sell the properties. They're technically not prohibited to
sell them for a profit.
And there may be other deed restrictions and other things that
come into play that they're going to have to be on the hook for and
involved in for several years to come.
The only real income for them on this is the developer fee, which
we estimate -- we don't have a hard number on exactly what that
would be, but we're estimating it would be less than $200,000. We
shouldn't be paying more than that based on what our understanding is
of the scope and the cost of doing all this.
So you put yourself in the chair and the shoes of a private
developer, and we think there's difficulty in getting particularly a
for-profit developer to the table with all those considerations in mind.
Now, that said, if the board wanted to -- I'll use the word
bifurcate or split the NSP pool, we would be certainly willing, as a
staff, to pursue the implementation of that.
And what we would do is we would bring back -- and we're
going to do this anyway. We're bringing back a negotiated developer
agreement with Habitat in April, and we would bring it back for
$1,747,875. That's essentially 50 percent of the total pool less the
grant administration costs, and the board would authorize Habitat and
send them off on their way to do that first phase of the work, that first
chunk of the work, that's 50 -- that first 50 percent of expenditure that
Page 227
March 27, 2012
we need to happen by March 2013, and then staff would work with the
purchasing department to determine if there's market-level interest in
the second half. There may or there may not be.
We do not advocate trying to just openly hit the market cold with
a solicitation without finding interested prospective developers that
might have interest and capability of doing the work.
So what we would do is we would ask the purchasing staff to
issue some kind of request for information, some type of open letter to
solicit qualifications and interest capability in general of potential
developers for this competitive scenario.
And if we could develop sufficient interest, we would then
develop an issue of solicitation -- a competitive solicitation. If we did
not find sufficient interest, then we would come back to the board and
report that to you and tell you what we found, and we would probably
be recommending at that point that you amend the developer
agreement for the first phase, I'll call it, lack of a better word, that first
1.9 million, we'd amend that to cover the second 1.9 million.
So, essentially, we can work this in two tracks if the board would
like. And we -- at this point staff recommends continuing with the
existing strategy. We thought that the discussion was pretty thorough
on this, that we considered pretty much all of the angles that we could.
We felt like, with Habitat for Humanity, you have a proven partner
who's really ready, willing, and very able to step in and move quickly.
You would keep all the work together, all the project work
together and the pieces. And I just think there's some synergy there,
we feel, that you would benefit from staying the course with what the
board has previously approved with the exit strategy.
But with that, I'll entertain any questions.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I have a few.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Who was first; Commissioner
Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I was.
Page 228
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Let me just ask a clarification.
What -- Steve, what is the motivating factor for any private contractor
to take over this program if they can't make a profit on it?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: There's none. And do you know of
anyone who's had experience dealing with this?
MR. CARNELL: I have not, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Other than Habitat for Humanity. Okay.
MR. CARNELL: We do not, as of the moment.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I have a few questions. The
first one is, you've mentioned a number of times, and we've heard it
before also, that this money must be spent by March of 13 and March
of'14.
MR. CARNELL: Correct.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I believe I asked this once
before -- you weren't standing at the podium at the time -- but I asked
why did it have to be spent by that time, and it was in order to be able
to, you know, not forego any other future grants, right?
MR. CARNELL: Among other things, yes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. But then if we're pulling out
of this business, why are we concerned if we -- if we have any other
grants, if we're not going to be doing this anymore?
MR. CARNELL: Well, the fear, Commissioner, would be even
if we get out of residential rehabilitation activities of this scale and
nature, we will have other CDBG programs, at least in the -- we have
not made any other policy decisions, the five of you, to forego other
CDBG programs.
And it is quite possible -- I don't speak with the voice of an
expert as I say this here, but it's quite possible that if we fail to
perform an NSP, it could be potentially held against us in another
CDBG or other federal grant application process.
Page 229
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I see, okay. I was a little bit
confused about that.
And the second question is, 25 percent has to go to 50 percent
and below, right?
MR. CARNELL: Yep.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Why don't we then -- this is -- this
was the main problem I had with the plan. Why don't we then --
because Habitat said there were a lot of people that never qualified
because they make too much money, so why don't we give a
percentage from, say, 50 percent to 80 percent, maybe go up to 80, to
take care of those people, and then we'd have a small percentage even
going up to 120. That way, not only would you have a blended
community or a balanced community, but then, you know, you would
be giving more people an opportunity than only the very, very low.
And if we keep building for very, very low and don't build for
those people that are between 50 and 120, I don't think that's very fair
to them. It's almost like we're discriminating.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Could I ask you a question before you go
further on that one just to clarify?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yep.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Would it be acceptable to do that with --
acceptable in your mind to do that with Habitat for Humanity?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah. That's -- but I had asked
about that in the beginning, and I was told, no, we only build to 50
percent and nothing else, so that was what was my problem.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: But they did agree to 80 to 120 for a
certain percentage.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: For $600,000.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Which is nothing.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Do we want a bigger --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I'm saying we're not tackling
that middle portion there from 50 to 80 percent at all.
Page 230
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And Habitat can still build in that
category.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, they can build up to 80.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: The issue is --
MR. CARNELL: I'm going to let them speak for themselves on
that. We'll let you-all finish.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. Can I --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, wait a minute. I don't know if
Commissioner Fiala's finished.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Let me address what
Commissioner Fiala said. Ms. Lefkow, at the last meeting, made it
clear that they basically target individuals who make 60 percent of the
area median income, and anything above that does -- you know, does
not qualify under their program. And then they said that they would
go ahead and agree to, you know, 600,000 out of the almost $4 million
to go to the, basically, above 60 percent.
And that's just really unreasonable, because six hundred, you
know, thousand doesn't amount to very many homes. So you're really
not doing anything to help that income bracket.
But here's the fallacy in everything you just said, and if I may.
The problem is, okay -- and I don't mean you, Commissioner Fiala. I
mean our head of-- what's your new interim -- what's your new title,
interim?
MR. CARNELL: Public services administrator, interim.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Interim public services
administrator.
The issue is that you're absolutely right, Commissioner Fiala, we
do not have to be in this rehab business to still qualify to get these
NSP funds. And I don't know why we keep going back to the
acquisition and rehabilitation and sale of homes when NSP3 allows us
to use these funds in other ways that does not involve construction,
and that's exactly what we should be doing.
Page 231
March 27, 2012
I mean, if the intent is for us to get out of this -- and we should
get into what NSP allows that is nonconstruction related, i.e., down
payment assistance. And my understanding is Lee County has been
using these NSP funds for down payment assistance and is very
successful. In fact, they're using NSP funds for down payment
assistance or second mortgages, if you will, and they're using it to sell
the properties that they had acquired. And they're just selling them
really quickly without any problems.
The percentage, I believe, is 40 percent that they're using. We
had at the previous meeting said we were going to do down payment
assistance through SHIP with a very small pool of funds at 20 percent,
and we had a cap.
So, quite frankly, we don't have to do any of this, and we
shouldn't be doing it, because we still have liability and we still have
responsibility, because we must monitor any subrecipient we work
with. So we are still in the housing business. We need to get out of it
completely.
We can use NSP funds for down payment assistance, we can use
NSP funds for demolition of blighted homes, and that's what we
should do. We need to use it where we don't get involved with
construction, rehabilitation, and sale of properties, because we have
proven beyond a doubt that we don't have the staff that is able to do it.
Now, the alternative would be to, Leo, you know, Interim
Director, hire someone who's competent in real estate who could
manage this and get it done for us. And I'm hoping you're looking for
somebody who does have real estate experience, who does have, you
know, administrative experience, to be able to manage the housing
program that we have, because we still have an interim person there.
But my recommendation is we don't do any of this and present a
third alternative and that is use it for down payment assistance and for
demolition of, you know, blight, as allowed by law.
MR. CARNELL: And I would just briefly respond to that by
Page 232
March 27, 2012
saying, you made mention of the SHIP program. The funds available
for down payment assistance are in excess of$2 million. So they're
not that much smaller --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right.
MR. CARNELL: -- than the funds we have for NSP.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So then let's pool it and let's really
make a worthwhile pot to help a lot of people with this down payment
assistance that the federal government provides for. And we can have,
you know, different percentages, depending on, you know, qualifiers.
You know, obviously it's all very well qualified according to
federal law. This is nowhere near what the sub-prime, you know,
scenario is. And if we are going to take federal funds to assist with
housing, you know, then that is the best way for us to go. It keeps us
out of the construction business.
And really, you're helping people at 80 percent, 120, you know,
50, across the gamut. What we need to do is we need to stimulate
demand, not supply. We've got the supply out there. We need to
stimulate demand. And this is one way of helping people who are,
you know, unable to save that down payment because they live from
paycheck to paycheck but are able to, in effect, pay the rent to have
the opportunity for homeownership.
MR. CARNELL: And again --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So it's really a good system.
MR. CARNELL: And if I could finish my comment. What
you're proposing, Commissioner, if we were to put all of this NSP3
money into down payment assistance, is to triple the expenditure from
2 to almost $6 million.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Correct.
MR. CARNELL: And we are --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And you could do some for
demolition.
MR. CARNELL: But, remember, we've got to move a third of
Page 233
March 27, 2012
that in one year.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I don't think you're going to have a
problem doing that if you have someone who's competent to do it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Let him answer, Commissioner.
MR. CARNELL: Okay. And the other point is, you are -- I
appreciate your desire to get out of the construction business, but
you're going to get back into the program-income business with NSP
funds if you're doing down payment assistance, and you're going to be
in some of the other things that we are removing ourselves from the
day-to-day administration of, potentially, if we go into -- if we put all
this money into our existing down payment assistance program.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Let me ask a question. If you --
would you be able to -- and I don't know if this has been done -- to
basically provide for this down -- like, we can use the down payment
assistance to sell the properties that we own. We don't have to give
them away to someone else to give away to someone else.
We can, for example, provide that we'll fund the closing costs,
which this allows for, do 40 percent down payment assistance to sell
the homes that we have in inventory. I guarantee you would be able
to get that done, assuming that, you know, you don't have stuff that's,
like, totally unsellable. But based on some of the houses that I saw
when I went to tour, you know, the properties when there were all the
problems that the Clerk identified, you know, they were great homes.
MR. CARNELL: Well, again, Commissioner, by taking the
approach we're proposing, you're putting the redevelopment in the
hands of a capable proven performer. If you --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: We want to be out of that business.
MR. CARNELL: I understand that, but if--
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And we want to be out of
monitoring that business.
MR. CARNELL: Okay. If you go to -- if you go to purchase
assistance, then there's no longer a central facilitator of any kind for
Page 234
March 27, 2012
the rehabilitation work itself.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: We don't want to be in it, so that
makes perfect sense. Now you're speaking exactly what the board has
been saying.
MR. CARNELL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: We want to be out of that business.
MR. CARNELL: That's right. We want someone else to --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No. We want to be out of that
business.
MR. CARNELL: Okay. Well, I'll let the board decide where ■
they want to be on that. But all I want you-all to understand is that
Habitat is providing you a vehicle to get there with some know-how
and experience. And, Commissioners, you may all concur with
Commissioner Hiller either now or in the long term. I think we all
would concur in the long term; we don't want to be doing this five, six
years from now. We want to get this inventory of NSP homes
addressed.
And staff would propose, for that reason, that we continue to
work through the framework of a previously approved exit strategy
and for the board to consider if you want us to pursue this competitive
alternative or not.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, I think it's Coletta next.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: He just broke your light.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: He just broke my button.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I did that purposely.
All right, Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Let's see if we can get a grip on
this whole thing. We established the fact that you can't make a profit.
Why -- and we -- Commissioner Coyle eloquently explained it. Why
would you want to be in the development business building houses to
know you can't make a profit unless you're a nonprofit, correct?
Page 235
March 27, 2012
MR. CARNELL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So why do we want to even go
down that road? So let's come back to where we are and what we can
talk with and what we can deal with.
Now, Commissioner Fiala, rightly so, has some concerns over
how the money's going to be spent on what level of-- I thought it was
60 percent, by the way, or is it 50 percent of the median income for
Habitat?
MR. CARNELL: The -- Habitat's 50.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, they said it was 60.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. In any case, why don't
we have Habitat come up.
MR. CARNELL: It is 60, sir. I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I thought it was 60, that's why
when I heard the word 50 -- but if you could come up for just a
minute.
At the last meeting, to try to come under some sort of agreement
to keep things moving forward -- because we are a bunch of people
with different opinions and different needs within the community.
Commissioner Fiala made some suggestions that we see what we
can do to try to up the ante for bringing middle income people into the
mix. At that time you agreed to be able to spend $600,000, was it?
MR. KOULOHERAS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: On the -- forgive me -- 90 to
120 or --
MR. KOULOHERAS: Eighty to one twenty.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- 80 to 120 range, which is --
you know, it's a good offer. It's a sincere offer. And you're really not
in the business of providing middle income houses.
But, once again, in order to be able to sweeten the pot and to be
able to get off dead center, is there any way, as Commissioner Fiala
Page 236
March 27, 2012
suggested, that we could up that ante to be able to make this a little
more doable?
MR. KOULOHERAS: Sure. For the record, Nick Kouloheras
with Habitat for Humanity.
To answer your question, Commissioner Fiala, yes, I believe we
can. Habitat for Humanity traditionally targets in our charter 60
percent AMI and under. The grant requires 25 percent of the funds at
50 percent and under.
Our statistics show that, you know, the 102 homes we closed
Calendar Year 2011, if I'm not mistaken, there was a certain number
of those, upwards of about 40 or 50 -- I think the number's actually a
little higher -- I think it's about 55 that fell between the 50 and 60
percent AMI bracket.
Typically we've never gone above 60 because our charter doesn't
really allow us to. But as Dr. Durso said at the last meeting, we'd be
more than willing to go up to 600,000 for 80 to 120.
I'm a little hesitant on how far above that 600,000 number we go.
But, yes, we could do that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, we need to.
MR. KOULOHERAS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Because it's a concern of the
commission, and I can understand it. We heard today from people in
Immokalee that said they don't want Immokalee to be all low-income
houses.
MR. KOULOHERAS: Low, low.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And that's been the feeling there
for many years. I mean, actually we're getting a push-back now when
you try to locate a new Habitat community there.
So if we're going to do this, let's do it in some meaningful way.
We've got how much money again we're talking about? And forget
the private vendor out there and splitting it. How much money is out
there?
Page 237
March 27, 2012
MR. KOULOHERAS: If I'm not mistaken -- I don't know the
exact number, but the net dollar value to go out and purchase rehabs
or land is about 3.1 million.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Three point eight million.
MR. KOULOHERAS: Well, no; 3.8 is the total grant amount.
You have to take developer fees and the county admin fees out of 3.8.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: What developer fees?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. I've got the floor, please.
MR. KOULOHERAS: The admin fees I'm not going to speak on
behalf--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. So we've got $3.1
million out there that we can actually do houses. You're saying right
now that 600,000 of it could be dedicated. How about if we split the
baby right in front and we have a million and a half or a million and a
half?
MR. KOULOHERAS: I'll tell you what, I could -- I hate to say
this is a negotiation table, but could we do --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: This is a negotiation table.
MR. KOULOHERAS: Could we do a million dollars? A
million dollars for those people above -- what number do we want to
set -- above the 50 percent.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And I'm not trying to be
difficult.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Above 80 percent.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Commissioner Fiala has been
extremely patient with me on this subject with Habitat. I'd like to hold
out for 1.25 to be able to get to where we need to be. Can you do
that? That would give you a little bit more than half to be able to
dedicate.
Going once, going twice.
MR. KOULOHERAS: Yes, I believe we can do it, but I would
like to put a -- it's not a set-in-stone, but some type of caveat with that.
Page 238
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What's the caveat?
MR. KOULOHERAS: The caveat is we will do, in our best
faith, with everybody, whether it's from the support of-- from
NABOR or the county staff, whatever it is, to market to that 80 to 120
AML
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I understand. If there's not a
market, then we've got a problem.
MR. KOULOHERAS: Exactly. If we're sitting here a year and a
half from now, two years from whatever the thing is of-- let's say the
1.25 buys you 12 houses and we've sold eight of those 12 houses, you
know, will there be some relief of saying, hey, listen, you know, it's
taken us a lot more effort to get there than we thought. Can we drop it
down to the 50 to -- because you've got to remember with that -- we're
going to go out and try to get these folks conventional financing.
They're not going to fall under the Habitat terms in our typical
mortgage. We're not going to underwrite the mortgage.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If you can't get it, you're out of
luck. I understand.
MR. KOULOHERAS: So I just -- I don't want to come back
here two years from now and say, Commissioners, we failed for this
80 to 120. You know, this is more of a new venture for us, so I want
to make sure that the program's good. I want to make sure the money
stays in Collier County. And, you know, you've got to remember that
we're leveraging a lot of our own donor dollars against all this.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I know. And I've seen Habitat
for Humanity work for years. They're the only vendor out there that
can do this project. I don't care what anybody says.
But with that said if we could put something in there and come
up with the correct wording that would allow for, if all circumstances
are right and there's a market for it, 1.25 --
MR. KOULOHERAS: One point two five.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- million dollars to be dedicated
Page 239
March 27, 2012
for that, I think we're going to get a little bit closer to where we are.
And what we're going to need to do is to monitor these numbers as to
what the actual need is, so when times come up in the future, too,
Habitat can respond to try to meet a little more of a balance out there.
Does that get us closer to where you need to be?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, Commissioner Fiala would like to
see, I think, 60 to 80 addressed. Is that what you said?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, and that's what I said before --
MR. KOULOHERAS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- so that we get all -- my problem --
I don't have a problem with Habitat. What I have a problem with is
only very, very low income that then we have to support forever, by
the way, because they're all eligible for food stamps and healthcare
and so forth. They don't get any healthcare.
What I'm saying is, you are turning people away between 60 and
80. Although, I understand Habitat International can go all the way up
to 80, right, and they'll still make the loans and so forth.
And then there is nothing between 80 and 120, but they've said
they would give 600,000, which would be what, six homes or
something like that.
MR. KOULOHERAS: Give or take.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Maybe five, four; four, probably.
MR. KOULOHERAS: I mean --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Here's my point. My point is when
you pack them all into one area, like you've done in mine, it's a
detriment to that area because we cannot draw businesses, retail and so
forth; whereas, if you had a balance, a blend so that you gave different
rates, I mean different prices for homes, you might be able to build a
better balanced community, which would help the schools
tremendously and would help us to draw some retail in there.
You can't even go buy a pair of shoes in East Naples. And we
need that. That's what Immokalee is also concerned with.
Page 240
March 27, 2012
But going on, you had said something about using some of this
money -- not the homes that you're going to rehab. This is the extra
money. And, you know, I was just thinking, right now we're just
getting out of this recession. A lot of people have been out of work.
And now, finally, maybe they're finding a job, and they want to buy a
home. Maybe they lost their home. But they've -- being that we've
just been in a recession, they also lost all their savings. I think a down
payment assistance would certainly be a big help. And I don't care
what category they're talking about, you know, a $150,000 home,
doesn't make any difference. If we could help them get back on their
feet after this recession, I think that would be a good idea with some
of this extra money that -- not the rehab -- rehab homes, others.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Let's try to narrow this down and get
some specifics. How much money do you want to allocate to the 60
to 80 percent category?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, they have to --
MR. KOULOHERAS: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- keep 25 percent 50 and below.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, I know that, but he's already said
that.
MR. KOULOHERAS: You forget about the small demographic
of 50 to 60 that we've left out in this whole -- because we're talking 80
to 120 and 60 to 80. We forgot about 50 to 60.
What I'd like to propose you say, you know, of the 1.25 million,
you address that 50 percent and up, and maybe, say, of that 1.25
million, you address that 50 percent and up with a million of it going
towards 60 and up or some version of that. Now we're --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You're not being very clear. Let's start
with the total amount of money available. Tell me how much money
you're going to devote to the 50 and below, all right. How much is
that?
MR. KOULOHERAS: I believe it's the number right up there,
Page 241
March 27, 2012
which is the 1.7 -- 1.754.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: 1.754 to the 50 percent and below.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Commissioner Coyle, can I ask
you --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: No, just a minute. I want to get through
this. We've been babbling about this for 30 minutes now and we
haven't gotten specific.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I want --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I want to know how much you're going
to allocate then from the 50 to -- is it the 50 to 60, Commissioner Fiala
or --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Fifty to eighty.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- 50 to 80? All right.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And let's hope it gets closer to the
80 rather than the 50, because you could build them all at 52 percent,
and it's still above 50.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All right. Fifty --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It should be 60 and up.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Fifty to eighty, how much could you
allocate to that?
MR. KOULOHERAS: Let's say 500,000.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And how much to the 80 to 120?
MR. KOULOHERAS: Whatever that difference would be, 750,
is that -- yeah.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Seven hundred fifty thousand dollars.
Commissioner Fiala, how does that sound to you? Is there some
other adjustment you'd like to see there? He's got 500,000 for the 50
to 80, 51 percent to the 80 percent category, and then 750,000 go to
the 81 percent to the 120 category.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: May I say what the problem is?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: No. Let's get answers to these questions
and --
Page 242
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, the problem is --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Hiller, just wait your turn.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Sure.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Now, Commissioner Fiala, is
there some adjustment you'd like to see to that allocation?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No. At least it's a better blend. It
would give a more balanced community, which is what I've been
trying to say all along. And that would help a lot, I think.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. So we've at least got a starting
point there that you seem to be able to deal with.
Now, let's refine it a bit and see where we're making some
mistakes or overlooking anything.
Commissioner Coletta? Where did he go?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I don't know.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All right, Commissioner Hiller.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm right here.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'd like to -- I want to take it from
the top. First of all, again, we want to get out of the business and yet,
for whatever reason this, you know, board keeps talking about staying
in it. Whether it's with a subrecipient or not makes no difference.
You represented, Mr. Carnell, that there is no profit in this and
that no one makes any money, and then the gentleman from Habitat
made it clear that there's a developer fee. And, quite frankly, when I
ran the numbers on the developer fee, you're looking at -- I'm not sure
if it's like 700- or 750- out of that 3.8. But, you know, you're basically
looking at a developer fee of between 20 and 25 percent. Now, tell
me that's not making money as a developer.
So, first of all, I think what we need to do is identify what that
developer fee is off the top and leave the balance so that we
understand clearly what we're dealing with as the remainder.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, the county gets some of
that.
Page 243
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's what I need the breakdown
on. I mean -- and what is the county getting that for, the
administration fee?
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And what percentage are you
getting for administration, 10 percent?
MR. CARNELL: Ten percent.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Ten percent of the total or 10
percent of--
MR. CARNELL: Ten percent of the total grant.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. So 10 percent of the total
grant goes to the county. So 380,000 goes to the county as a fee of
that 3.8 million?
MR. CARNELL: Yeah, round numbers, yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And then what is the developer
fee?
MR. CARNELL: Well, we don't know the developer fee right
now. It's in the process of being negotiating or will be competed. It
would be less than $200,000 as an estimate.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: What do you mean it's going to be
negotiated?
MR. CARNELL: Well, it's going to be part of the developer
agreement with Habitat, or it would be --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Or the developer fee with any
private entity?
MR. CARNELL: Correct. Or if we competed it, we would have
to negotiate and compete it and determine it then.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So the statement that was made
that there's no money in this and that no private entity would do it, in
other words, all those affordable housing developers out there that are,
you know, for profits or other nonprofits, in fact, would be making a
Page 244
March 27, 2012
developer fee, and it wouldn't be something, as Commissioner Coletta
described, as -- that no one else would bid on this because there's no
money in it?
MR. OCHS: Commissioner, our estimate is, the developer fee
per home, in the range of 10 to $12,000.
MR. CARNELL: And that's based on --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Ten to 12,000 on, like, a $100,000
home?
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Which is a 12 percent profit
margin?
MR. OCHS: Well, they have to rehab the home with their
money as well.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. Well, I -- that -- and who
gets the home? Who purchases the home? The home is purchased or
is given to them or they acquire the home with NSP funds?
MR. OCHS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So if you take a $100,000 home,
they could put a very nominal amount of money in it and still make a
very healthy profit on that home.
MR. CARNELL: The NSP funds are not going to pay for the
entire improvement. Habitat is using them -- as an example, they're
going to have to leverage some of their own money to make this
happen, and they're at risk for, as I said, close to $600,000 of their
own money, say, for 12 properties to make those improvements plus
the other costs that -- or the other money involved in acquisition. I
don't know --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Are you talking about the
properties that we own, or are you talking about additional properties
that they're going to acquire?
MR. CARNELL: I'm talking about the latter, primarily, the ones
they're going to acquire.
Page 245
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. So, first of all, we've got
two issues here, one is the properties that we own that we're disposing
of that have to be rehabbed in part.
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am. That's the NSP1 funding --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. That's NSP.
MR. OCHS: -- that we have -- we have recommended that we
stay the course on that, and we continued with Habitat for that. We're
going to bring you that development --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So we're already --
MR. OCHS: -- order at the next meeting.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: We're already putting a number of
homes in that, you know, up to 60 percent, you know, 60 to 80 and 80
to 20 (sic) with the 50 homes that we're giving them that they're going
to rehab. What's the value of the 50 homes we're giving them?
MR. OCHS: I don't know.
MR. CARNELL: I don't know.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's over a million dollars. It's
about a million two?
MR. OCHS: It's 42 homes.
MR. CARNELL: Don't know. We'll have to get you an answer
on that, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. So let's say it's about
another million dollars. So really what we're talking about is 3.8
million plus the additional 1 million or so for the other homes we
have?
MR. CARNELL: Whatever that number is, yeah, yes. But keep
in mind, the developer fee -- this is not construction profit on a
construction contract. This is carrying costs. They have to go buy the
property, they have to hold the property, they have to rehab the
property, they have to --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But they're buying --
MR. CARNELL: -- market the property.
Page 246
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Understood, but they're buying the
property with NSP dollars. They're not buying it with their own
money.
MR. CARNELL: All right. Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay.
MR. CARNELL: All right. That's true.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Now you're asking them to rehab it
with their own money, not with NSP dollars? I thought the NSP
dollars could be used for rehabbing.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, we're not using it for that.
That was one of the criteria that the board directed that we -- because
there's a monitoring for that.
MR. CARNELL: They're using their dollars to rehab the
property.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. So they're using their
dollars to rehab. And then for the closing costs, who's paying that?
MR. CARNELL: They are.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: They are. Well, the buyer is
paying it through their --
MR. CARNELL: Whatever arrangement Habitat has, yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, who pays the closing cost?
MR. KOULOHERAS: Yes, the closing costs are built into the
mortgage.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: They're built into the mortgage.
MR. KOULOHERAS: They're built into --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. So that's paid for through
the mortgage.
So -- and, again, with your mortgages, it's up to 60 percent. You
don't mortgage above 60 percent.
MR. KOULOHERAS: No, no. The --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No. Habitat does not mortgage for
AMIs over 60 percent.
Page 247
March 27, 2012
MR. KOULOHERAS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. So when we were doing the
breakdown that Commissioner Coyle was doing, when you had a
category that was, say, 50 to 80 percent, then your focus would be to
put everyone in that under-60-percent bracket because that's all that
you mortgage.
MR. KOULOHERAS: Those -- no. Those applicants or those
homebuyers that fall above that 60 percent would have to get
conventional financing.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right. And that's my point. So
when we are breaking this down, your incentive will be -- if we have a
category that goes from, you know, 50 to 80 percent, okay, you're
going to drive everybody into the -- you know, that bracket that goes
from 50 to 60 because that's where you have the ability to give
mortgages.
And what Commissioner Fiala wants is to push it over 60. She's
looking at, you know, the 60-plus. In fact, she wanted to focus on the
80 to the 120, okay. And what we're doing here by this breakdown is
-- actually the allocation is going to be forced more towards the 60 and
under.
I mean, you're putting 1.25 in 50 and under, and then 500,000 in,
you know, 50 to 80, which means you're going to put, really, a
hundred -- one point -- 1.75 in the 60 and under by virtue of the
breakdown that Commissioner Coyle just proposed.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And that's easy enough to solve. We just
break it at 60 and --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay.
MR. KOULOHERAS: Yes. And I believe -- yes, okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: We were using 50.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That's the point.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. So you break it at 60, so
now you have 1.25 60 and over?
Page 248
March 27, 2012
MR. KOULOHERAS: I'm trying to do the math. You've got me
a little confused, to be perfectly honest with you.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You have 1.25 under 60, and you
have -- I don't know what the balance is -- whatever the balance is
over. But I don't know what the balance is. I don't know what -- the
total we're dealing with.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Just slow down a minute. Now, if you're
wanting to push it toward the upper side, you don't want to lump 60
and over -- you don't want to push all the money into the 60 to 80
category.
So they had originally said they would have $500,000 for the 50
to 80 category. So if we want to move it toward the upper side, let's
make that $500,000 to the 61 and 80 category and then 750,000 to the
81 and 120 percent category, okay. And all of those in the latter two
divisions would have to get conventional loans; is that not correct?
MR. KOULOHERAS: That is correct.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. So you would be dealing with
1.754 million in the category of 50 percent -- 60 percent -- 59 percent
or 60 percent, however, you make that division, and below.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Commissioner Coyle, you're right,
except for the fact that we don't have that number -- that net number. I
mean, we've got the county administration fee and this developer fee,
so we need to take the 3.8 less the county administrative fee, less the
developer fee, and then break down the balance between the three
categories as you have correctly broken them out. But we don't know
what that net number is allocated to housing.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I think if you add up the numbers we
have here, that is the net --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: What is that?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- of 3.8. If you take 3.8 and net out all
of the administrative fees, I think you'd come up with the figure that
we just had.
Page 249
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And what is all the administrative
fees?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: For the county, the development fee.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And what is that?
MR. CARNELL: If I could, three -- I'm going to give you the
numbers quickly: 3,884,165 in aggregate for two years.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Three-point what? Go slower.
MR. CARNELL: 3,884,165.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yep.
MR. CARNELL: All right. Ten percent of that would be
388,416. That would be county administration, all right. And then,
don't lose sight of what we talked about at the beginning. We have to
target 971,042 for the low-income set-aside in the first year.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: How much?
MR. CARNELL: 971,042.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And that has to be under?
MR. CARNELL: Fifty percent or under, but that's in the first
year only, where we would go -- we'd go for that full amount in the
first year.
All right. Now, if you take those numbers out, that leaves
2,524,707, just over two-and-a-half million dollars. That has the
developer fee in it, and that has all the other money that we would
spend on acquisition and any other --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So what is the developer fee?
MR. CARNELL: Well, it's an unknown number, Commissioner,
at this point. It would have to be --
MR. OCHS: Estimate.
MR. CARNELL: The estimate, we're giving you an estimate of
less than $200,000. I don't know if we have it. Do we have an
estimated number yet in the -- between 10 and 12 percent --
MR. OCHS: No, 10- and 12,000.
MR. CARNELL: Per house. Between 10- and $12,000 per
Page 250
March 27, 2012
house. We're talking --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So is that 10 percent?
MR. CARNELL: It's -- if we said 10 to 12,000 per house and
right now we're targeting 27 houses between the two years -- do the
math with me -- it's just over $300,000. S o 300 into 3.8, about 8
percent, about 7-and-a-half percent.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You're talking 300,000 on 2.5
million?
MR. CARNELL: Yeah, within -- it would be within that 2.5,
yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, that's over 10 percent.
That's, like, 12 percent.
MR. CARNELL: Yeah, but it's less than 10 percent of the total
monies is my point.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, but that's -- are they getting
a developer fee on the 971- also?
MR. CARNELL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So the 300,000 is for the combined
total of the 2.5 plus the 971-?
MR. CARNELL: That's all -- yeah, correct. That's all
development fees for everything.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So 300,000 are the developer fees?
MR. CARNELL: Estimated number; estimated number, yes,
round numbers.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You'd mentioned before -- I'm sorry.
You had mentioned before that some of these homes over 80 percent
would have to find their own financing. Now, Habitat gets, what,
$20,000 per home from SHIP funds. Would those SHIP funds also --
for down payment assistance. Would they also apply to the homes
where they have to seek their own mortgage?
MS. SONNTAG: Hi. I'm Kristi Sonntag, Housing, Human, and
Page 251
March 27, 2012
Veterans Services. And the answer is yes to your question.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: They could?
MS. SONNTAG: Yes, they could.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. That's interesting. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Now, the way this works out,
based upon the figures you just gave us, is pretty close to where we
were before. It provides $1.274 million for the 50 percent and below.
It provides $500,000 -- I'm sorry -- let's say the 60 percent and below,
and you decide how it works out, where you put that -- but then
$500,000 for the 61 to 80 percent category, and then $750,000 to the
81 to $120,000 -- 120 percent category, and that gives you the total of
2.524 million, which is what you told us was the net.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, no.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So it -- yeah, it does.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But no. The 2.524 -- the 2.524
was net after almost a million dollars for the under 50.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Hang on a minute. I haven't
said anything.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We're taking a break, okay. Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It has to come back to us
anyways, correct?
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
MR. CARNELL: We can harden up the numbers and then bring
them back as part of the recommended --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, why don't we just -- why
don't we give direction so -- because all these numbers are being
thrown around. And, yeah, you're talking percentage of income and
then you're talking about dollars, and I'm just seeing all kinds of
numbers, and I'm not sure --
MR. CARNELL: Yes, sir. Well, my suggestion would be, if it's
the direction of the board to continue to pursue the exit strategy
Page 252
March 27, 2012
through the negotiated developer agreement that we intend to bring
you with Habitat, then staff has sufficient direction to put those
numbers together and bring them to you on April 10th. We'll get the
agreement.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: As discussed here? As
discussed here?
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That doesn't work out.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So you'll come back and refine the
figures, and we'll get that all combined --
MR. CARNELL: Yes. And we'll be ready to approve a
development agreement with them.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- and you'll give us something we vote
on?
MR. CARNELL: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. All in favor of the motion, please
signify by saying aye.
Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. It passes 4-1 --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I say no just because I didn't hear
what she had to say, and I wanted to hear what she had to say.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. It passed 3-2 --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: The rest of it is okay.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- with Commissioner Fiala and
Commissioner Hiller dissenting.
We're going to take a 10-minute break.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Unbelievable.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I've got a question.
Page 253
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: We're in the same boat we were
before.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, are we going to continue
this meeting?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We're close to finishing.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: No. We've only got a couple more items
if we can stop talking for a while.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Well, what's your
problem then?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Then let's go.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Do you mean stay here right now, or
did you mean just after a break?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, it was clear. That was the
conversation between him and I.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: How about Terri?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: No, that's -- Terri needs a break. She's
already almost 20 minutes late.
MR. OCHS: How long, 10 minutes?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Ten minutes, 10-minute break.
(A brief recess was had.)
MR. SHEFFIELD: You have a live mike.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Thank you very much.
Ladies and gentlemen, the Board of County Commission meeting
is back in session.
That brings us to?
MR. OCHS: Brings us to --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: 11I.
Item #11I
THE APPOINTMENT OF MR. NICK CASALANGUIDA TO THE
Page 254
March 27, 2012
POSITION OF GROWTH MANAGEMENT DIVISION
ADMINISTRATOR - MOTION TO CONFIRM APPOINTMENT —
APPROVED
MR. OCHS: -- 11I, Commissioners. Pursuant to the county
manager's ordinance, the Board of County Commissioners is required
to confirm -- not required, but they must confirm the recommended
appointment of division administrators made by the county manager.
In this case, Commissioners, I am recommending that you
confirm the appointment of Mr. Nick Casalanguida to the Growth
Management Division administrator position. Nick has been with the
county since 2004, has served with distinction in a series of positions
with increasing responsibility and authority.
He's served since 2010 as the deputy division administrator in
growth management. I think his combination of leadership abilities,
his proven performance, his relative work experience makes him
uniquely qualified and suited for this position, and I would ask for
your --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve.
MR. OCHS: -- unanimous confirmation of his appointment.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I think we should continue this item so
that we can have an opportunity to vet Mr. Casalanguida and to
review his qualifications.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I'm delighted to make a
motion or second Commissioner Coletta's motion to confirm the
appointment of Mr. Nick Casalanguida to this position. And I want to
tell you, just on a side note, he's the most honest guy I've ever worked
with. He's just wonderful so, and he's organized and he's dedicated, so
CHAIRMAN COYLE: An honest government employee?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Wow, isn't that a new concept? Thank
Page 255
March 27, 2012
you. Yes, I agree with that. Of course I'm being facetious.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, you are.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Because there are so many people
around who think you're all dishonest, and it's not true at all.
So motion by Commissioner Coletta to approve --
MR. OCHS: Confirm.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- confirm the appointment of Mr.
Casalanguida, seconded by Commissioner Fiala.
All in favor, please signify --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I've got a question.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Does he have any knowledge of
mass transit and pathways?
MR. OCHS: Excuse me?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Does he have any knowledge of
mass transit and pathways?
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir, I believe that he does.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. I did my job, okay.
MR. MITCHELL: Yes, you did.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All in favor, please signify by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
MR. OCHS: Thank you, Commissioners.
Congratulations, Nick.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It passes unanimously.
(Applause.)
Page 256
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I make a comment? I'd like to
make a comment, because I know we're going to address the next one,
also.
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But I do have a concern, and my
concern is that, you know, these division heads are not contract
employees. And we have a whole bunch of contract employees, and
I'm not talking about the county manager or the county attorney, but I
would like us to revisit these contracts that we have. I don't think that
the airport director should be a contract employee, I don't think the
CRA executive director should be contract employees.
I see these contracts as causing us lots of problems. And I would
like to see all contracts for these employees removed and they all be
employees of the county, at-will employees, with the exception of the
county attorney and the county manager.
And I'd like to propose it that we simplify, and I'd ask that -- if
the county attorney could bring that back for consideration so we
eliminate the complexity of these contracts. I mean, it's worked very
effectively with our division heads, who are long-term employees, and
we don't have the same kind of problems that we're having as we had
this afternoon with David Jackson, as an example.
MR. KLATZKOW: Might I make a suggestion -- because you
do have existing contracts. When one of those lapse --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Don't renew it.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, at that point in time have your
discussion whether or not you want to continue with a contractual
relationship or if at that point in time you want to migrate towards a
different relationship.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, I'm just afraid if we delay
this as a policy decision, when the time comes, you know, some --
we'll forget. I mean, we've got so many issues. I mean, it's an
immediate thing that I think we really ought to look at and, just as a
Page 257
March 27, 2012
matter of policy, bring it forward.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll remind you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Henning's going
to remind us.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. Well, I just think -- I do
have another issue.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, we're only on one issue, that's
appointment of Nick Casalanguida, to confirm the appointment of
Nick Casalanguida. We're not into commission communications.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I understand, but this is related to
this specifically, and that is the salary dollar figure.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: This is not the time to discuss that.
You've got to get -- you've got to get the issue resolved when you
bring this back as to whether or not these people are going to work for
the board or they're going to work for the county manager. And so
we'll have to bring this -- that issue -- and I have no problem doing it.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: She's talking about -- she's talking
about Nick's salary.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, Nick and George's salary.
Again, I have a concern there, because as it compares to the salary of
the airport director and the executive directors of the CRAs, I mean,
they're just out of line. I mean, our salaries don't make sense.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. That's good. Let's go to the next
item.
Item #1 1 J
THE APPOINTMENT OF MR. GEORGE YILMAZ TO THE
POSITION OF PUBLIC UTILITIES DIVISION
ADMINISTRATOR - MOTION TO CONFIRM APPOINTMENT —
APPROVED
Page 258
March 27, 2012
MR. OCHS: The next item, Commissioners, is 11J, and it is a
recommendation to confirm the county manager's appointment of Dr.
George Yilmaz to the position of Public Utilities Division
Administrator. Similar to Mr. Casalanguida, Dr. Yilmaz has served
the county with distinction since 1989. He has directed three of the
five major departments --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Seconded.
MR. OCHS: -- in public utilities.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Motion to approve by Commissioner
Hiller, seconded by Commissioner Fiala.
All in favor, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: (Absent.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It passes unanimously.
Congratulations, George.
(Applause.)
Item #11L
REJECT ALL BIDS RECEIVED IN RESPONSE TO INVITATION
TO BID #11-5624, TRENCHLESS SEWER SYSTEM
REHABILITATION SERVICES — APPROVED
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That brings us to 11L.
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. Item 11L was previously Item 16C1 on
Page 259
March 27, 2012
your agenda, and it is a recommendation to reject all bids received in
response to Invitation to Bid No. 11-5624 for trenchless sewer system
rehabilitation services. This item was moved at Commissioner Hiller's
request.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: The reason I moved it is twofold.
First of all, what is the -- what was the total bid amount?
MR. CHMELIK: Well, this is a service contract, Commissioner,
and it's established with set prices for specific line items, so it goes by
line item.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So what was the total?
MR. CHMELIK: The total -- we only received --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Because none of this was in the --
MR. CHMELIK: -- responses back for two of five categories.
And the pricing ranged in the bids from $877 to $4,900, and for the
other one, from $18 to $11,000.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And is that --
MR. CHMELIK: Huge range.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- per something?
MR. CHMELIK: Per task.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Per task.
MR. CHMELIK: Per task.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And -- so what would the total be?
What's estimated total tasks?
MR. CHMELIK: The estimated total dollar amount on the
contract, I don't recall. Do you?
MS. MARKIEWICZ: Joanne Markiewicz, Interim Purchasing
Director. Our annual spend on contracts very similar to this,
Commissioner Hiller, has been about $275,000 a year.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. Per --
MS. MARKIEWICZ: That's the total.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Total.
MS. MARKIEWICZ: Total spend per year.
Page 260
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. Total spent, okay. I didn't
know what we were talking about with respect to this contract. None
of that information was in there.
My concern with this -- and this relates across the board not just
to utility contracts, but to transportation and other contracts -- is I see
these contracts going out for bid, you get information in from the
various contractors that are bidding on these projects, so now they've
basically put their hand on the table, you know exactly, you know,
where they stand. And then the bid is dropped, and then it comes back
six months later or eight months later, and all the competitors have
seen each other's hand.
And someone who maybe hasn't bid now knows what the
competition has bid, and it creates a very unfair forum. I've seen it
with transportation contracts, and when I saw it with this utility
contract, I was concerned.
And I don't know what we do about it, Jeff, but it is something
that really needs to be avoided. I mean, this was done on several very
large transportation contracts.
MR. KLATZKOW: I mean, you know, sometimes staff see
somethings and says, oh, my God, we forgot something, and -- which
is what happened here, apparently, and you know --
MR. OCHS: Go ahead, Tom.
MR. CHMELIK: In this particular case, there were five
categories, and we only received responses on one primary category
and a supporting general, so we just weren't getting the response for
the type of work we wanted to do. We had two bids where only one
respondent bidded, and we have to award a primary, secondary.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I understand.
MR. CHMELIK: We just couldn't award it.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, I understand. And I
understand --
MR. CHMELIK: And we've learned --
Page 261
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- your explanation in this
particular case, which I wanted to get on the record. That still leaves
me with a concern with the bidding practices in the county where bids
are exposed, pulled, and then put back on the table at a later date,
obviously, you know, disadvantaging the competitive process.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- staffs recommendations.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Motion to approve by Commissioner
Henning, second by Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But I want this issue --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All in favor, please signify by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It passes unanimously.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But I want this issue addressed,
and I want to understand, you know, what your safeguards are to
avoid this from happening and, you know, why it's been happening.
And if you could bring that back or if you want to sit down and talk to
me about it and then I can address it publicly, I would like to do that
with Leo.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Wait a minute, wait a minute.
That wasn't the case on this item, so it's -- we're talking about
something different than what's on the agenda.
Page 262
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, what was on the agenda is
now explained as to why they pulled it, okay. But what I'm saying --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It wasn't enough --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right. There wasn't enough
information in the backup, okay. We had no idea of the amounts. We
had no idea why this was being pulled. Now it's going to go back out
there, and with respect to what was bid on will be known to the
competition, which is the issue that concerns me not only with this,
but with other bids in utilities and transportation.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And don't you think your
comments are warranted more under commissioner's comments than
items on the agenda?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
Item #11N
A SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AND RELEASE WITH
MALCOLM PIRNIE, INC., TO SETTLE ALL OUTSTANDING
CLAIMS RELATED TO CONSULTING SERVICES PROVIDED
IN CONNECTION WITH PROJECT AND OVERSIGHT
SERVICES ON FOREST LAKES MSTU PROJECTS F-53 AND F-
56, AND AUTHORIZING PAYMENT — APPROVED
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. We're going to 11N now.
MR. CHMELIK: Thank you very much.
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. That is a recommendation to approve a
settlement agreement and release with Malcolm Pirnie, Incorporated,
to settle all outstanding claims relating to consulting services provided
in connection with project and oversight services on Forest Lakes
MSTU, Projects F-53 and F-56, and to authorize payment.
Page 263
• March 27, 2012
Commissioner Hiller had pulled this item.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. Let me explain why I
brought this forward. This is a situation which is exactly what the
Clerk of Courts said he would not pay. And, essentially, what the
Clerk had said -- and he spoke before us at a previous meeting when
something similar happened -- is where staff is approving work after a
contract has expired, and it's not coming back to the board for
ratification before the item moves forward.
And that is my understanding of this situation. And now what's
being proposed is, quote, a settlement, okay. Now, there is no
litigation, all right. And to essentially create a cover in order to pay
for this improper excess indebtedness of the county, if you will, with
respect to this contractor, we are cloaking the payment in a settlement.
And that's really unacceptable because the issue remains the
same, that staff has authorized work beyond the contract date without
an extension of the contract being approved by the board ahead.
And, quite frankly, I found a statute which really leaves me
concerned, and it's Statute 129.08, which makes County
Commissioners voting to pay illegal claims or for excess indebtedness,
malfeasance in office, subject to suspension and removal, guilty of a
misdemeanor, yada, yada, ya.
And, quite frankly, we -- I only -- I did not -- I was not aware of
this statute because I always thought that the, you know, personal
liability was strictly attributable to the Clerk.
As it turns out, it's attributable to us. And this is the kind of
situation where I think we would be remiss to approve this.
So I would like to make a motion to vote no on this, you know;
that we deny it. Sorry, a motion to deny it.
MS. ARNOLD: The item is a settlement because there's a
dispute between the payment that was requested by the contractor.
And, yes, the contract is now expired because it took some time to get
to the point where we are today.
Page 264
March 27, 2012
Now, if it's more appropriate to have the board ratify that contract
and then authorize the payment -- but the reason why there's a
settlement is because there was a dispute between that last payment.
There wasn't a lawsuit, but there was a dispute in the payment.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yes, but it's because the contractor
did work after the contract expired, and the contract was not extended
by the board.
MS. ARNOLD: No.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And the Clerk won't pay it.
MS. ARNOLD: The work that was done that was identified in
this third change order was not -- had been done prior to -- the design
had been done prior to the expiration of the contract. The work -- the
change order was not processed until the contract --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's not what your executive
summary says.
MS. ARNOLD: The design --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, and what --
MS. ARNOLD: The dispute was with regard to the work of--
the CEI work that we believe should have been included in the
lump-sum contract for -- and covered under Change Order No. 2, and
that's why we did not process that third change order.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's not how your executive
summary reads. I mean my understanding is that this work was done,
it wasn't under contract, and now you're asking us to pay for
something that is being veiled as a settlement. But, I mean, let's face it.
Again, if you didn't call it a settlement, it would be what you're
describing, which is that the work was done after the contract expired.
I mean, was the work -- was the work done before the contract
expired? Was it pursuant -- was it work done pursuant to the contract
before the expiration of the contract?
MS. ARNOLD: There was an -- there was additional CEI work
that was performed after the contract was due; it was a matter of days.
Page 265
March 27, 2012
Because I think the expiration date of the contract -- and let me see --
was December 14th. No, that was the last date of Change Order No.
2. Let's see what the expiration date of the contract was.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, in the meantime, while you're
looking for that, County Attorney, your staff has certified that this is
legally sufficient. What is your position here?
MR. KLATZKOW: I'll let Scott explain.
MR. TEACH: Yeah. Commissioner, Scott Teach, Deputy
County Attorney.
I can represent to the board that there were some -- that both of
the change -- none of the three change orders actually were reviewed
in advance by our office, but this is an item where the change orders
were issued, they were timely extended, and I believe -- I don't have
the contract in front of me, but I don't think this is an issue where
Commissioner Hiller is talking about an expired contract.
We have those situations. When we have those situations, we
clearly bring them to the board, and that's what happened. What
happened here is we have a situation where staff approved the change
order -- approved another change order -- approved a work directive,
which is, in essence, a change order, No. 3 in this instance.
We engaged in conversation with the Malcolm Pirnie and their
counsel, which has been ongoing for a number of months. We agreed
that there were issues on both sides and came to a figure that we
thought was a reasonable resolution of this, and that's why we're
bringing it to the board.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So are you trying to cover up and/or
camouflage the real reason for doing this here, as Commissioner Hiller
is alleging?
MR. TEACH: No, sir. You know, in fact, we have a very good
working relationship with Malcolm Pirnie, and they are currently
involved in another extremely important matter with the county --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, they're acting --
Page 266
March 27, 2012
MR. TEACH: -- which is an aside, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's not an aside.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Hiller, please.
MR. TEACH: Which is an aside. But of note is -- that I thought
was important for the board to understand as well.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: If I may?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So you believe this is legally sufficient
and that we should pay this?
MR. TEACH: Yes, sir. I mean, it's my recommendation that it's
in the board's benefit. It's a compromise of a greater amount that they
could seek against the board if they were to commence something, an
action against the county, and that's why it's my recommendation that
it be approved.
If the board doesn't want to approve it, that's fine, and we'll
pursue other avenues and we'll address it in that fashion.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Is there a motion?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I ask -- can I speak to Scott
for a moment, please?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You can ask him questions, if you'd like.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Sure. Here's the concern. They
issued three change orders because work was done after the contract
as written, had expired, or because the contract did not provide for the
services provided?
MR. TEACH: No, ma'am. They did not issue change orders
after the contract expired.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: They issued change orders during
the term of the contract for work that was not included under the
original contract?
MR. TEACH: Well -- and the executive summary explains it.
There were a number of issues with this project that delayed it. If
there's one thing that is clear on this project, there were some change
orders, in my view, as a representative to the board, that I wish would
Page 267
March 27, 2012
have been brought to your attention sooner.
For example, there was one change order in June of maybe 2010
or whatnot, it wasn't processed until October. So staff was always
catching up in arrear with days.
If they would have been brought to you when they needed in
front of the needed change, the number of days that were increased
because the contractor was having issues, I don't think we would have
this issue right now.
So we're trying to remedy a situation which got off track.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I just -- can I finish?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, Commissioner Hiller, but we've
had both the county attorney and Michelle tell you --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right. Well, I'm reading --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- that what you alleged was not true.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's not alleging anything. I'm
reading directly from the executive summary. Pirnie -- Malcolm
Pirnie continued to provide on-site inspection services for the project
through construction completion in response to a work directive issued
by staff; however, before a change order incorporating the provisions
of the directive could be presented to and approved by the board, the
work order for the project expired, and associated purchase order was
closed.
MS. ARNOLD: Right, which is what I'm saying. The change
order was what was not processed prior to the expiration. The work
directive was processed prior to the expiration of the contract.
MR. TEACH: And, Commissioner, what I'm saying is a work
directive -- and it's covered under the administrative rules, I believe,
the purchasing policy. And it's really a change order that staff can
make in the field, but they're supposed to bring it back to the board for
approval. They didn't in this instance.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. So what we have is a total
Page 268
March 27, 2012
of about 257,000 in -- by way of three change orders that were not
approved by the board?
MS. ARNOLD: No. Change Orders 1 and 2 were approved by
the board.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay, 1 and 2. So what was -- so
the only amount that wasn't approved was the 60,000, the 59,000?
MS. ARNOLD: The 59,000, which is what was in dispute,
because we believe that some of the CEI work should have been
covered under that second change order. The tieback is the part that
we believe should have been included in that work directive only.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And the reason being is because it
basically -- you've got in here that the County Commissioners -- and
this was back in July of 2005 -- said that work orders over 200,000
had to receive board approval, right?
MR. TEACH: Yes, Commissioner. And --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And that wasn't done.
MR. TEACH: Correct, and staff, before they issued the work
directive, should have brought it to this board when they knew it was
going to be in excess of$200,000. They didn't, and so here we are
today.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And this is, in effect, also --
wouldn't this trigger the CCNA?
MR. TEACH: In what way, Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, because now you're going
over 200,000, that $200,000 -- I don't know if it does or doesn't. I'm
just asking.
MR. TEACH: No, I don't believe so. I mean, this is -- the work
here was CEI services, which is work of a specified nature, and that
doesn't have the $200,000 limitation, to my understanding, 287.05(G).
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Because it was of-- because it was
of a specific nature and didn't --
MR. TEACH: It's not a study activity. A study activity would
Page 269
March 27, 2012
be limited by the $200,000 cap, as I recall.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay, yeah.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And just for the record also, this
particular vendor is currently an expert witness --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah, thank you.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- in one of our cases?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
MR. TEACH: That's what the executive summary says.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay, thanks.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. We have a motion to approve by
Commissioner Henning, a second by Commissioner Coletta.
All in favor, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: The motion passes 4-1 with
Commissioner Hiller dissenting.
MS. ARNOLD: Thank you.
Item #15
STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. That brings us to county
attorney's report.
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. How about county manager's
Page 270
March 27, 2012
communications?
MR. OCHS: No communications from me today, sir. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: Ditto.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. And we'll start with
Commissioner Hiller with commission general communications.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. One thing I wanted to ask
is, I noted during the course of today's meeting that utilities did not
present the presentation that they gave on that $36 million contract as
part of the backup. So I would ask that, you know, when they do
presentations, that should be included as part of the backup and that I
would ask that George take the presentation that was made today that
was put on the overhead and include it as an exhibit for that agenda
item, please.
And I'm going to go ahead and repeat some of the things that I
said under the individual items. My concern remains that we should
not have contracts that are -- that have maximum caps, that should
have what actually will be expended for what is known to be -- you
know, what is budgeted to be the real expenditure and not have
cushions in our contracts, and that we shouldn't be dropping bids and
then rebidding them six months later or in a short period of time
thereafter, creating an unfair advantage to those who have not
competed in the first bid.
And then, lastly, I think we should drop all the contracts for all
employees except for the county attorney and the county manager.
Lastly, the one thing that I want to make sure of is that the county
manager goes back and looks at the water issue that was raised by
Blue Sky --
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- and follow up with the
gentleman who wanted his matter investigated further. And I think
Page 271
March 27, 2012
that's it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I just wanted to mention
something. We've had a lot of problems with these contracts recently,
and many times the builder, or whomever it is that is doing the work,
thinks that we've already taken care of all the paperwork, but we don't
pay them after they've had to pay all of their people or can't pay their
people because they haven't gotten paid, and I'm thinking maybe we
could find a better way for us to work this out, so when they've --
actually when they've saved us money because they finished two
months ahead of time and they've done the work and they've done it
well, isn't there something we can work out between the county
attorney, the Clerk of Courts, and us so that we can figure out the
paperwork, but after we pay the man.
I mean, because most of this is just paperwork. It mostly just
changes words or something like that. And they have a lot of faith in
us, the people who are taking the work, but pretty soon we're not
going to have anybody bidding on anything anymore.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You've got it.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I think we can work it out.
We're all adults here. We don't -- you know, we should be able to pay
them for their work and then work out the wording for whatever we
need so that everybody -- you know, so that we get that taken care of.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I address that?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I think you're absolutely right.
Now, here's the issue. Take that last example. The board, when they
voted on that last contract, made it absolutely clear if you go over
200,000, you need to come back to us, but staff didn't do it. They just
completely disregarded the board's directive, so the board did do the
right thing.
The board set the standard, made it clear that this is what staff
Page 272
March 27, 2012
had to do, and they -- staff just didn't do it.
So I think really the issue is, is that we need to turn to Leo and
make sure that Leo, you know, tightens up the standards on
purchasing so we don't have these issues that -- you know, these bid
protests, you know, contracts that don't make sense, these issues like
we had on this last item.
I really think that's the direction that we need to go in because, I
agree with you, I mean, this really does have to stop. It's very time
consuming. It's very time consuming to review.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And when they get back out into the
outside world --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- they tell everybody that we're bad
guys.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Exactly, exactly. And we're not.
We're simply doing what the law requires. And as cumbersome as it
is, you know, in government, the safeguards are that much higher
because we're dealing with public funds. And we just have to be
mindful and respectful of it.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I'm sure that we can work on
some of this paperwork and some of these wordsmithings behind --
you know, after the fact, and we should still pay them.
MS. KINZEL: Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
MS. KINZEL: For the record, Crystal Kinzel.
I would just like to say your solution in working together is
optimal. But let me just say, I agree that needs to be done up front.
By the time it gets to a pay request at the Clerk's Office, unscrambling
it creates distention, and if it's right on the front end and we do all of
the paperwork appropriately, it is a check box for the Clerk's Office to
make the payment. And we need to start resolving these.
We've been working more and more closely with all the
Page 273
March 27, 2012
departments in an attempt to make that happen.
So we're very hopeful that over the course of the immediate
future this will start to resolve itself. But I think we did have a much
better working relationship with each of the departments, but it has to
start up front, because unscrambling it later is causing us all problems.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Sometimes people don't even know
that it exists. We've had a couple of them recently -- Crystal and I
have even talked about them -- where nobody knew anything,
everything was perfect. We'd go to pay them, and then somebody
finds out -- and it isn't Crystal, but somebody finds out that, oh, for
goodness sake, there's two feet over some line, and so it isn't zoned for
those two feet, and so we're not paying you $975,000. And I mean,
that's --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Marco Island airport zoning issue,
yeah.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah. So -- see, things like that,
they're not fair.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I mention something to you,
Commissioner Fiala?
I did make the request for the information. The impact fees that
were for that South Park construction have been, in fact, sitting in
there since 2008 right to the present, so that could have been moved
all along, okay. And so here's the proof for you. So I just thought you
might want to take a look at --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you very, very much.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Have you finished,
Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. And I would just like to add
something that pertains to what Commissioner Hiller and
Commissioner Fiala brought up about these payment issues.
Page 274
March 27, 2012
It is absolutely true that things come to my attention after there's
been delays of months and months in getting an issue resolved for
payment. And there simply isn't any excuse for that either in the
Clerk's Office or in our office.
I believe that people just are not devoting the time that is
necessary to getting them solved, and we need to begin doing that,
because if I were a contractor trying to do work with this government,
I wouldn't do it very long if I were -- if money was withheld from me
because of, seemingly, simple issues that could have been resolved in
days rather than months.
And there are some of these things that have been going on for a
year or more. And what I would like to ask is that the county manager
make sure we are aware of any hold-up in payment so that we can get
involved and begin to get our people focused on resolving it or ask the
Clerk to get focused on resolving it, and hopefully we can stop these
things from dragging out for such a long, long time.
But I've seen these things, and they're just -- there is no defense
for the amount of time it takes to resolve some of these things, either
from our standpoint or from the Clerk's standpoint, just way excessive.
So with that, Commissioner Coletta, it's your turn.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. And I'd like to echo on
that, too.
You know, we're supposed to be a business-friendly county. It's
one of the things we've been looking to do for a long time. Maybe we
could get the county manager and the Clerk together to come up with
some sort of profound statement that will be able to say we are a
business-friendly county, and if you do business with Collier County,
we're going to do every effort -- we're going to make every effort we
can to see that you're paid on time and that we abide by all the parts of
the contract we're supposed to abide to.
If we do that, it might be that would be the reason for both parties
to be able to try just a little harder.
Page 275
March 27, 2012
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But our actions speak louder than
the words. You can see anything.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I know, I know, and it's
regrettable. I mean, I hear some of these stories out there, and these
are small vendors that are going without their money --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- because of the fact that
someone along the line missed a step, and there seems to be no way to
rectify, and it's an extremely sad situation.
But one other thing, and this is a sad note. TJ Clark, a friend and
a fellow Rotarian, passed away the other day in a motorcycle accident,
and I just want to be able to honor his memory at this time. It was
quite a loss for our rotary. We're going to be meeting tomorrow. And
there's going to be a service the next day at St. Monica's church, and
it's in the paper.
So if anyone out there ever had any contact with TJ Clark, we'd
love to see you at those services. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can I resurrect an old story?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Have you told it before?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I don't recall.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Was it funny.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, very serious. Happy Easter.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Is it that time already?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. Two things. We talk
about change orders. We just got a report on a -- no, an audit on
findings on the Marco Island Airport runway extension, and that
involves the contractor who did the expansion there, and they don't
have the proper zoning.
I've seen email correspondence where the County Attorney's
Office agrees it doesn't have the proper zoning. So, you know, we
share a responsibility here. There is ways to rectify that. It's not
Page 276
March 27, 2012
going to be easy or -- I mean, it's not going to be fast, and it has to
have some kind of rezoning or the ability for it to be allowed in
conservation area.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right. And that's exactly what I
was speaking to.
Now, the contractor took the job thinking we had gotten all of the
work done and everything was zoned and ready to go.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You had your time, young lady.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Huh?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I said, you had your time, young
lady.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You don't get to talk anymore.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm just saying yes to you. Okay.
Sorry about that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And the other thing is about the
Master Mobility Plan, the email that was sent out yesterday in that.
Am I wrong of the understanding that WilsonMiller was not going to
do work in the RLSA dealing with the Master Mobility Plan?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: WilsonMiller's not doing the review of
the RLSA, but they're still under contract under the Master Mobility
Plan to do language. So that was still part of the original contract that
was let for that scope. They were a sub all the way through Phase 3,
which is -- in August that's completed.
But the RLSA review, they are not on that contract. That is
coming back to the board. That's going to be done by somebody
outside the county.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So the board then allowed for
WilsonMiller to do -- who wrote the RLSA plan to do amendments
under the Master Mobility Plan?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Not to the RLSA, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh.
Page 277
March 27, 2012
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Yeah, no. They're --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Not to the RLSA?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: No. They're going to do general
language concepts with the other consultant and staff. But the RLSA
five-year review is going to be put out to bid with the money. I
believe in the next board agenda you'll hear --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, the master mobility -- the
few pages that I'd seen that was sent, it's going to be discussed -- was
talking about the RLSA language, GMP and that.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: As a subregion, sir, but not as part of
the RLSA five-year review. So I want to make sure that's clear.
So they have drafted language as the consultant, Mr. Perry has,
but I -- and I haven't even reviewed it yet, so --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But you're having a meeting, a
general meeting for the public to review it tomorrow.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: No. And what came up this afternoon
is some of the members of the public asked that we do not have that
meeting tomorrow. They don't have enough time. So we're going to
treat that as just a staff briefing to me. They're going to take their time
and give me their findings, and then we'll reschedule that so they have
a chance to attend that workshop or working meeting.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are we -- are we giving other
landowners besides -- outside the RLSA the same opportunity?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Sure, yes, sir. This is an intention to
be countywide, and we'll be going out -- as a matter of fact, we've
scheduled a workshop with the Planning Commission that's where
they don't have to make any decisions, it will be open to anybody, and
then we will approach folks like the civic association in Golden Gate
Estates, other community activists to go through this.
We're going to, hopefully, get the same reviews we received in
Phase 1 and 2. We've been open. Every time someone's raised an
objection, we've said, okay, you know, let's work with them and keep
Page 278
March 27, 2012
going. So I want to continue with that accolade we received in those
two phases and do the same thing.
So we'll keep it open, we'll slow it down. I don't want this to
have any cloud over it at all.
MR. GADDY: Yeah. There's been good public participation up
until --
THE COURT REPORTER: Can I get your name?
MR. GADDY: -- this point. Peter Gaddy. You know, but
scheduling a meeting with only 48 hours' notice is -- makes it a little
bit difficult for the people to attend, and it's also a little bit difficult to
read a 62-page LDC amendment, you know, in a few hours.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: To be clear, it's not -- I want to make
sure we understand. And I understand Peter's concerns. We will
address it.
It is not a meeting that was meant to be advertised to the public.
What we've done is we've gone one step further in this mobility plan.
Any time staff meets with the consultant, we post it and we say, you're
welcome to attend, which is that balancing act you have to have now,
because in almost any project you have, whether it's utilities,
transportation, we don't post every consultant meeting we have. With
the mobility plan, we have.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Maybe that wasn't clear in your
email that I received.
MR. GADDY: Just so we're clear, Nick, we will have another
meeting where we can --
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Yes, sir.
MR. GADDY: -- have some public input?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Yes, sir, yes.
MR. GADDY: Okay. Thank you.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Very good.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Motion to adjourn.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
Page 279
March 27, 2012
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. We're adjourned.
****Commissioner Coletta moved, seconded by Commissioner Fiala
and carried unanimously that the following items under the Consent
and Summary Agendas be approved and/or adopted ****
Item #16A1
RESOLUTION 2012-47: A SPEED LIMIT STUDY REPORT AND
A SPEED LIMIT DECREASE FROM FORTY-FIVE MILES PER
HOUR (45 MPH) TO FORTY MILES PER HOUR (40 MPH) ON
VANDERBILT DRIVE (CR 901) FROM 9TH STREET TO
BONITA BEACH ROAD AT A COST OF APPROXIMATELY
$500
Item #16A2
RELEASE THE UTILITY PERFORMANCE SECURITY BOND
TO THE PROJECT ENGINEER OR THE DEVELOPER'S
DESIGNATED AGENT FOR NEW HOPE MINISTRIES, PHASE 2
— THE DEVELOPER HAS FULFILLED HIS COMMITMENTS
FOR PROERTY LOCATED AT 7675 DAVIS BLVD
Item #16A3
A CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT TO QUALITY ENTERPRISES,
INC. FOR BID NO. 12-5825 - ESTEY AVENUE/LAKEWOOD
BOULEVARD INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS, PROJECT
NO. 60016, IN THE AMOUNT OF $75,192.60 — WIDENING THE
INTERSECTION IN ORDER TO ACCOMIDATE SCHOOL
BUSES AND LARGER VEHICLES TO TURN WITHOUT
DRIVING ON TOP OF THE SIDEWALK
Page 280
March 27, 2012
Item #16A4
CONTRACT NO. 12-5875 — GORDON RIVER EXTENSION
RESTORATION PROJECT TO QUALITY ENTERPRISES USA
INC. IN THE AMOUNT OF $452,760 AND AUTHORIZING THE
CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE STANDARD BOARD APPROVED
CONTRACTS AFTER LEGAL REVIEW BY THE OFFICE OF
THE COUNTY ATTORNEY — FOR APPROXIMATELY 1,900
FEET OF CHANNEL RECONSTRUCTIVE MAINTENANCE TO
ELIVIATE UPSTREAM STREET AND YARD FLOODING FROM
STORMWATER RUNOFF WITHIN THE COUNTRY CLUB OF
NAPLES SUBDIVISION AND THE FOREST LAKES
DEVELOPMENT
Item #16A5
FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE WATER AND SEWER UTILITY
FACILITIES FOR MARSALA AT TIBURON AND TO RELEASE
ANY UTILITIES PERFORMANCE SECURITY TO THE
PROJECT ENGINEER OR THE DEVELOPER'S DESIGNATED
AGENT
Item #16A6
RESOLUTION 2012-48: FINAL APPROVAL OF THE
ROADWAY (PRIVATE) AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS
FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF STERLING OAKS WITH THE
ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS BEING
PRIVATELY MAINTAINED AND THE RELEASE OF THE
MAINTENANCE SECURITY AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE
PLAT DEDICATIONS
Page 281
March 27, 2012
Item #16A7
RECORDING THE FINAL PLAT OF TWIN EAGLES GRAND
ARBORS, THE STANDARD FORM CONSTRUCTION AND
MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT AND APPROVAL OF THE
AMOUNT OF THE PERFORMANCE SECURITY — DEVELOPER
MUST RECEIVE A CERTIFICATE OF ADEQUATE PUBLIC
FACILITIES PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF THE FINAL
APPROVAL LETTER
Item #16A8
AN ALTERNATE SECURITY FROM THE CURRENT OWNER
OF THAT SUBDIVISION KNOWN AS SUMMIT PLACE IN
NAPLES, PHASE II, AND TO ENTER INTO A NEW
CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT FOR
SUBDIVISION IMPROVEMENTS — RELEASING WATERWAYS
JOINT VENTURE FROM THE EXISTING CONSTRUCTION,
MAINTENANCE AND ESCROW AGREEMENT AND
RETURNING THE POSTED PERFORMANCE SECURITY
Item #16A9
AN ALTERNATE SECURITY FROM THE CURRENT OWNER
OF THAT SUBDIVISION KNOWN AS BRISTOL PINES, PHASE
II, AND TO ENTER INTO A NEW CONSTRUCTION AND
MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT FOR SUBDIVISION
IMPROVEMENTS — RELEASING WATERWAYS JOINT
VENTURE FROM THE EXISTING CONSTRUCTION,
MAINTENANCE AND ESCROW AGREEMENT AND
RETURNING THE POSTED PERFORMANCE SECURITY
Page 282
March 27, 2012
Item #16A10
RESOLUTION 2012-49: FINAL APPROVAL OF THE
ROADWAY (PRIVATE) AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS
FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF STERLING OAKS — PHASE 3A
WITH THE ROADWAY AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS
BEING PRIVATELY MAINTAINED AND AUTHORIZING THE
RELEASE OF THE MAINTENANCE SECURITY AND
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT DEDICATIONS
Item #16A11
RECORDING THE FINAL PLAT OF REFLECTION LAKES AT
NAPLES — PHASE 3J WITHIN THE WALNUT LAKES PUD —
DEVELOPER MUST RECEIVE A CERTIFICATE OF
ADEQUATE PUBLIC FACILITIES PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE
OF THE FINAL APPROVAL LETTER
Item #16Al2
THE RELEASE OF A $54,200 LIEN FOR PAYMENT OF
$19,281.15, IN THE CODE ENFORCEMENT ACTION ENTITLED
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS VS. TREASURE B.
AND JEFF AHLBRANDT, CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
CASE NO. CESD20090012965, RELATING TO PROPERTY
LOCATED AT 6090 PAINTED LEAF LANE, COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA — WAIVING $54,200 IN ACCRUED FINES
Item #16A13
Page 283
March 27, 2012
BID #12-5858 FOR "GOODLETTE ROAD FROM PINE RIDGE
ROAD TO VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD LANDSCAPE
MAINTENANCE" TO COMMERCIAL LAND MAINTENANCE.
THE ANNUAL EXPENDITURES ARE ESTIMATED TO BE
$60,039.50
Item #16A14
RECORDING THE FINAL PLAT OF QUARRY PHASE 3
REPLAT, LOTS 117, 118 AND 119 - DEVELOPER MUST
RECEIVE A CERTIFICATE OF ADEQUATE PUBLIC
FACILITIES PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF THE FINAL_
APPROVAL LETTER
Item #16A15
A BUDGET AMENDMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $19,394.13
FOR TRAFFIC ACCIDENT REIMBURSEMENTS, PROJECT
#60076.1, AND RECOGNIZING REVENUES FOR FUTURE
REPAIRS — FOR DAMAGES TO LANDSCAPED MEDIANS
CAUSED BY TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS
Item #16A16
CLERK OF COURTS TO RELEASE A SECURITY IN THE
AMOUNT OF $5,000 WHICH WAS POSTED AS A
DEVELOPMENT GUARANTY FOR WORK ASSOCIATED
WITH BUCKS RUN ACCESS — DEVELOPER HAS FULFILLED
HIS COMMITMENTS RELATING TO THIS SECURITY
Item #16A17
Page 284
March 27, 2012
TWO RELEASES OF LIEN, FOR THE SAXON MANOR ISLES
APARTMENTS LIMITED PARTNERSHIP AND THE SAXON
MANOR ISLES APARTMENTS II LIMITED PARTNERSHIP,
DUE TO THE IMPACT FEES BEING PAID IN FULL IN
ACCORDANCE WITH THE MULTI-FAMILY RENTAL IMPACT
FEE DEFERRAL PROGRAM, AS SET FORTH BY SECTION 74-
401(E) AND 74-401(G) (5) OF THE COLLIER COUNTY CODE
OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES
Item #16A18 — Moved to Item #11N (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #16B1 — Moved to Item #14B3 (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #16B2 — Moved to Item #14B4 (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #16C1 — Moved to Item #11L (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #16C2
DEDUCT CHANGE ORDER NO. 2 IN THE AMOUNT OF
$73,587.43 TO CONTRACT NO. 10-5555 WITH HASKINS, INC.,
FOR THE ISLES OF CAPRI WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT
PHASE II PROJECT #71010 — RESULTING IN A DECREASE IN
THE CONTRACT AMOUNT OF $73,587.43
Item #16C3
RESOLUTION 2012-50: AUTHORIZING UTILITY WORK
AGREEMENT WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION; B) A FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION STANDARD FORM RESOLUTION
AUTHORIZING THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF
Page 285
March 27, 2012
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO EXECUTE THE AGREEMENT;
C) A FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
STANDARD FORM UTILITY TERMINATION AGREEMENT
FOR THE UTILITY WORK BY HIGHWAY CONTRACTOR
AGREEMENT; AND, D) A LETTER TO THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL SERVICES, DIVISION OF
TREASURY TO TERMINATE A PREVIOUSLY EXECUTED
MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT — AS DETAILED IN THE
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Item #16D1
RELEASES OF LIEN FOR PARTICIPANTS IN THE COLLIER
COUNTY AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEFERRED IMPACT FEE
PROGRAM WHO ARE NO LONGER SUBJECT TO THE
RESTRICTIONS IMPOSED BY SUCH PROGRAM — RELATING
TO PROPERTY AT: 1129 SERENITY LANE, IMMOKALEE AND
THE LAUREL RIDGE APARTMENTS, GOLDEN GATE
Item #16D2
TWO (2) RELEASES OF LIEN FOR DEFERRAL OF 100
PERCENT OF COLLIER COUNTY IMPACT FEES FOR OWNER
OCCUPIED AFFORDABLE HOUSING DWELLING UNITS
THAT HAVE BEEN REPAID IN FULL — PROPERTY LOCATED
AT 13606 LEGACY LANE AT TRAIL RIDGE AND 9047
GERVAIS CIRCLE, UNIT 1610 AT HERITAGE BAY
Item #16D3
AN AGREEMENT WITH NAPLES COMMUNITY HEALTH
Page 286
March 27, 2012
CARE (NCH) SYSTEM IN COOPERATION WITH THE SAFE
AND HEALTHY CHILDREN'S COALITION OF COLLIER
COUNTY TO PROVIDE WATER SAFETY INSTRUCTION TO
COLLIER COUNTY YOUTH IDENTIFIED WITH THE SWIM
CENTRAL PROGRAM IN THE AMOUNT OF $4,000 —
PROVIDING SWIM LESSONS TO PRE-KINDERGARTEN
CHILDREN AGES 4-5
Item #16D4
A SUB-LEASE WITH THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT LAND TRUST FUND OF THE
STATE OF FLORIDA FOR THE PARKS AND RECREATION
DEPARTMENT TO MANAGE THE NEWLY CONSTRUCTED
ISLES OF CAPRI PADDLE CRAFT PARK CONSTRUCTED BY
ROOKERY BAY NATIONAL ESTUARINE RESEARCH
RESERVE — FUNDS WILL BE BUDGETED WITHIN THE
BEACH AND WATER COST CENTER ASSOCIATED WITH
THE PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT
Item #16D5
REQUEST FOR QUOTE (RFQ) #12-5849 MAINTENANCE PLAN
FOR COOLERS/HEATERS AT COLLIER COUNTY AQUATIC
FACILITIES TO ALEX'S POOL HEATING AND AIR
CONDITIONING FOR AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $50,000
ANNUALLY
Item #16D6
RESOLUTION 2012-51 : THE COLLIER COUNTY PARKS AND
RECREATION DEPARTMENT FACILITIES AND OUTDOOR
Page 287
March 27, 2012
AREAS LICENSE AND FEE POLICY, INCLUDING
AMENDMENTS TO RESOLUTION 2010-201, REPEALING ALL
PREVIOUS RESOLUTIONS AND ESTABLISHING THE POLICY
ANEW — CHANGES RELATING TO BEACH PARKING
FACILITIES FEES, BOAT LAUNCH FACILITIES FEES AND
FACILITY LICENSE DEFINITIONS AND USES
Item #16D7
CONCEPTUAL CHANGES TO THE ANIMAL CONTROL
ORDINANCE AND DIRECTING THE COUNTY MANAGER OR
HIS DESIGNEE TO PREPARE ACTUAL ORDINANCE
LANGUAGE CHANGES TO BE APPROVED BY THE BOARD
AT A FUTURE MEETING — REGARDING CONCERNS
RELATING TO REGULATIONS FOR CAT AND DOG
BREEDING AND ISSUANCE OF PENALTIES AND
CONSEQUENCES FOR NON-COMPLIANCE
Item #16D8 — Moved to Item #11M (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #16D9
THREE (3) AMENDMENTS TO THE AGREEMENT WITH THE
AREA AGENCY ON AGING OF SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, INC.,
DBA, SENIOR CHOICES OF SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, FOR THE
FY 12 HOME CARE FOR THE ELDERLY (HCE), ALZHEIMER'S
DISEASE INITIATIVE (ADI) AND COMMUNITY CARE FOR
THE ELDERLY (CCE) PROGRAMS, ALONG WITH REQUIRED
BUDGET AMENDMENTS FOR A TOTAL FISCAL IMPACT OF
$12,794.31 — TO PROPERLY REFLECT FUNDING
ADJUSTMENTS TO POPULATION RELATED GRANT
PROGRAMS
Page 288
March 27, 2012
Item #16D10
AMENDMENT #3 TO AN EXISTING SUBRECIPIENT
AGREEMENT WITH YOUTH HAVEN, INC. UNDER THE
HOMELESSNESS PREVENTION AND RAPID REHOUSING
PROGRAM (HPRP) IN ORDER TO TRANSFER $12,000 FROM
DIRECT SERVICES TO CASE MANGEMENT WITHOUT
AFFECTING THE OVERALL BUDGET OR FUNDING LEVELS
— HUD HPRP GRANT #S09-UY-12-0024-2009-05
Item #16E1
AMENDMENT #3 TO #09-5343, LETTER OF AGREEMENT
WITH QUEST DIAGNOSTICS, INC. TO EXTEND THE
AGREEMENT THROUGH SEPTEMBER 30, 2012 AT THE
EXISTING RATES, TERMS AND CONDITIONS — IN ORDER TO
PROVIDE FOLLOW UP BIOMETRIC TESTING
Item #16E2
AMENDMENT #1 TO THE AGREEMENT #12-5866 WITH
MATRIX ABSENCE MANAGEMENT, INC. TO CLARIFY THE
SCOPE OF PAYROLL TAX SERVICES FOR THE COUNTY'S
SHORT TERM DISABILITY INSURANCE PROGRAM —
MATRIX WILL ASSUME THE RESPONSIBILITY OF
REMITTING PAYROLL TAXES TO THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT
Item #16E3
ADDING AN ADDITIONAL SERVICE AND COMMENSURATE
Page 289
March 27, 2012
RATE TO CONTRACT #10-5437 FOR TEMPORARY CLERICAL
SERVICES, AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY MANAGER OR HIS
DESIGNEE TO ADD FUTURE OFFICE-RELATED POSITIONS
AND RATES, AND THE PAYMENT OF ANY PAST AND
FUTURE INVOICES ASSOCIATED WITH THE CONTRACT.
ESTIMATED ANNUAL EXPENSE FOR ONE POSITION
REQUESTED: $25,000 — FOR ASSISTANCE WITHIN THE
PUBLIC UTILITIES DIVISION FOR PROJECT RELATED
MONITORING SERVICES
Item #16F1
RFP #11-5766 TO RESEARCH DATA SERVICES, INC. FOR
TOURISM RESEARCH SERVICES IN THE AMOUNT OF
$114,900 ANNUALLY TO INCLUDE A REVISED
TERMINATION NOTIFICATION PERIOD OF 60 DAYS
FOLLOWING COUNTY ATTORNEY OFFICE APPROVAL —
FOR AN INITIAL TWO (2) YEARS WITH TWO ADDITIONAL
ONE (1) YEAR RENEWAL PERIODS
Item #16F2
RESOLUTION 2012-52: AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING
GRANTS, DONATIONS, CONTRIBUTIONS OR INSURANCE
PROCEEDS) TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2011-12 ADOPTED
BUDGET — RECOGNIZING FUNDS FOR PARATRANSIT
BUSES (BA #12-207), HOMELESS ASSISTANCE (BA #12-208)
AND THE IMMOKALEE FIRST ST. PLAZA (BA #12-214)
Item #16F3
A REPORT COVERING BUDGET AMENDMENTS IMPACTING
Page 290
March 27, 2012
RESERVES IN AN AMOUNT UP TO AND INCLUDING $25,000
AND BUDGET AMENDMENTS MOVING FUNDS BETWEEN
DIVISIONS — BA #12-217 (ISLES OF CAPRI FIRE) AND #12-220
(TDC-BEACH RENOURISHMENT)
Item #16G1
FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE LONG-TERM GROUND LEASE
WITH TURBO SERVICES, INC — EXTENDING THE DATE BY
WHICH CONSTRUCTION MUST BEGIN BY SIX MONTHS,
ADDRESS CHANGE FROM REAL PROPERTY TO THE
AIRPORT AUTHORITY AND INCORPORATING CLAUSES
REQUESTED BY THE FAA
Item #16G2 — Moved to Item #14A2 (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #16G3 — Moved to Item #14A3 (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #16G4
THE SUBMITTAL OF A GRANT APPLICATION IN THE
AMOUNT OF $800,000 SUBJECT TO CHANGE BASED ON RFP
RESULTS TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION
FOR THE DESIGN AND BID OF THE RESTORATION OF
RUNWAY 17-35 AT THE MARCO ISLAND EXECUTIVE
AIRPORT — THE ESTIMATED 2.5% LOCAL MATCH
REQUIREMENT ($20,000) IS AVAILABLE WITHIN THE
IMMOKALEE DEVELOPMENT CENTER FUND RESERVES
Item #16G5 — Moved to Item #14A4 (Per Commissioner Henning
during Agenda Changes)
Page 291
March 27, 2012
Item #16H1
COMMISSIONER HILLER'S REIMBURSEMENT REGARDING
ATTENDANCE AT A FUNCTION SERVING A VALID PUBLIC
PURPOSE. WILL ATTEND TEMPLE SHALOM GOLDEN GALA
AT THE RITZ-CARLTON NAPLES, FLORIDA ON MARCH 17,
2012. $180 TO BE PAID FROM COMMISSIONER HILLER'S
TRAVEL BUDGET
Item #16H2
COMMISSIONER COLETTA'S REIMBURSEMENT
REGARDING ATTENDANCE AT A FUNCTION SERVING A
VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE. ATTENDED THE HONOR THE
FREE PRESS DAY EVENT AT THE HILTON HOTEL, NAPLES,
FLORIDA ON MARCH 14, 2012. $30 TO BE PAID FROM
COMMISSIONER COLETTA'S TRAVEL BUDGET — LOCATED
AT 5111 TAMIAMI TRAIL NORTH
Item #16H3
COMMISSIONER HENNING'S REIMBURSEMENT
REGARDING ATTENDANCE AT A FUNCTION SERVING A
VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE. ATTENDED HONOR THE FREE
PRESS EVENT AT THE HILTON HOTEL, NAPLES, FLORIDA
ON MARCH 14, 2012. $30 TO BE PAID FROM COMMISSIONER
HENNING'S TRAVEL BUDGET - LOCATED AT 5111 TAMIAMI
TRAIL NORTH
Item #16H4
Page 292
March 27, 2012
RECOGNIZING, AS PER RESOLUTION 2009-38, THE
DISSOLUTION OF THE HORIZON STUDY OVERSIGHT
COMMITTEE
Item #16J1
DISBURSEMENTS FOR THE PERIOD OF FEBRUARY 25, 2012
THROUGH MARCH 2, 2012 AND FOR SUBMISSION INTO THE
OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE BOARD
Item #16J2
DISBURSEMENTS FOR THE PERIOD OF MARCH 3, 2012
THROUGH MARCH 9, 2012 AND FOR SUBMISSION INTO THE
OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE BOARD
Item #16J3
CAPITAL ASSET DISPOSITION RECORDS FOR TIME PERIOD
APRIL 1, 2011 THROUGH SEPTEMBER 30, 2011 — AS
DETAILED IN THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Item #16K1
A MEDIATED SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT WITH OWNERS,
TODD J. PATTERSON AND LINDA E. PATTERSON, AND A
STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT TO BE DRAFTED
INCORPORATING THE SAME TERMS AND CONDITIONS AS
THE MEDIATED SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AWARDING
COMPENSATION, ATTORNEY FEES AND EXPERT COSTS IN
THE AMOUNT OF $27,040.50 FOR PARCEL 147RDUE IN THE
LAWSUIT STYLED COLLIER COUNTY V. SCOTT FAUNCE.,
Page 293
March 27, 2012
ET AL., CASE NO. 10-2684-CA (COLLIER BLVD. PROJECT NO.
68056). (FISCAL IMPACT $27,040.50) — FOR A 0.083 ACRE
PARCEL NEEDED FOR THE EXPANSION OF COLLIER BLVD.
FROM GREEN BLVD TO GOLDEN GATE BLVD.
Item #16K2
AN AGREED ORDER AWARDING EXPERT FEES IN
CONNECTION WITH PARCELS 105 AND 705 IN THE
LAWSUIT STYLED COLLIER COUNTY V. HIGHLAND
PROPERTIES OF LEE AND COLLIER LIMITED, ET AL., CASE
NO. 06-0563-CA, SANTA BARBARA BOULEVARD PROJECT
NO. 62081 (FISCAL IMPACT: $61,230) — FOR DAMAGES
ASSOCIATED WITH THE LOSS OF 22 PARKING SPACES AS A
RESULT OF THE PROPOSED TAKING OF THE LANDSCAPE
BUFFER ALONG RADIO ROAD AT COUNTRYSIDE
Item #16K3
AN AGREED ORDER AWARDING EXPERT FEES AND
ATTORNEY FEES AND COSTS IN CONNECTION WITH
PARCELS 111 FEE AND 111 TCE IN THE LAWSUIT STYLED
COLLIER COUNTY V. AL SUBS, INC., ET AL., CASE NO. 09-
3691-CA, COLLIER BOULEVARD PROJECT NO. 60092
(FISCAL IMPACT: $83,000) — FOR DAMAGES ASSOCIATED
WITH THE CLOSURE OF AN EXIT DRIVEWAY AT BECK
BLVD.
Item #17A
ORDINANCE 2012-13: AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 2003-18,
THE COLLIER COUNTY INDUSTRIAL PRETREATMENT
Page 294
March 27, 2012
ORDINANCE, CONFORMING WITH THE UNITED STATES
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY MODEL
PRETREATMENT ORDINANCE AS REQUIRED BY FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
Item #17B
ORDINANCE 2012-14: ADOPTING THE FLORIDA BUILDING
CODE 2010 EDITION, INCLUDING LOCAL EXEMPTIONS TO
PERMITTING REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO ADDITION(S),
ALTERATIONS, OR REPAIRS (INCLUDING WATER
HEATERS) PERFORMED BY A PROPERTY OWNER ON HIS
OR HER PROPERTY, PROVIDING UPDATED WIND ZONE
MAPS, AND PROVIDING FOR REPEAL OF ORDINANCE NO.
2009-5 9 IN ITS ENTIRETY
Item #17C — Moved to Item #9A (Per Agenda Change Sheet)
Item #17D
RESOLUTION 2012-53: AMENDMENTS (APPROPRIATING
CARRY FORWARD, TRANSFERS AND SUPPLEMENTAL
REVENUE) TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2011-12 ADOPTED
BUDGET
Page 295
16I 1
THERE WERE NO
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
AGENDA ITEM #16I1
FOR THE MARCH 27, 2012
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
MEETING
March 27, 2012
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 7:12 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
FRED COYLE, CHAIRMA
ATTEST
DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK
A t t.0 ,11 40.1041111114
Y r
These mtries app ved by the Board on Ti 012 ,
as presented or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICE, INC., BY TERRI LEWIS, COURT
REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC.
Page 296