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BCC Minutes 02/10/1992 WU~JLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS STRATEGIC PLANNING WORKS~tOP (VOLUME I) February 10, 1992 9:00 a.m. Building Il, Room 216 Collier County Government Complex Naples, Florida 33962 Reported by, Jacquelyn D. McMiller Deputy Official Court Reporter Notary Public State of Florida at Large OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Carrothers Reporting Service, Inc. 20th Judicial Circuit - Collier County ::~ 3301 East Tamtami Trail ~. ~.;' ;~ Naples, Florida 33962 ::r:, ,',/'.;'q ,: ~ ! . . 2 APPEARANCES * * BOARD MEMBERS, ' Michael Volpe P. Anne GooSnight Dick Shanahan Max A. Hasse Burr Maunders Chairman County Commissioner County Commissioner County Commissioner County Commissioner Nell Dorrill Mike Arnold Mike McNees Leo Ochs - Peter Bolton Bill Griffin - George Archibald Jennifer Pike - Paul Brigham - Tom Olliff - Bill Lorenz - Frank Brutt - Sandy Bometer - County Manager - Utilities Administrator - Budget Director Administrative Services Administrator - Emergency Services Emergency Services Administrative Manager - Transportation Services Administrator Administrative Assistant to County Manager Court Administrator Public Services Administrator Environmental Services Administrator Community Development Administrator - Golden Gate Community Also Present= ~ohn Norris * * INDEX * * m m mm mmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm! Leo Ochs ll*OO***o********** ..... Oil Frank Brutt ........................ Bill Lorenz ........................ 30 - 81 81 - 102 103 - 168 3 PROCEEDINGS NEIL DORRILL: The only county even close to Collier County is Sarasota County. For people that might try and say, well, that's because you have an extra ordinarily high assessed value, even when you look at Sarasota and Palm Beach and Martin, St. Lucie counties, counties that are similar to us with similarly high assessed values and Lee County for that matter, you'll find that most average county taxing rates are two or three mills higher than Collier County's. It also has some good population information on there that's current from the 1990 census. But, it also includes districts and districts are certainly going to be one of those topics that we talk about. Then, it has aggregate, county wide millages and we just thought you might find that of, sort of, interest, we did, as it stacks us up against our colleagues from around the State of Florida. news. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's perhaps the good The bad news is I was reading an article, I've got it on my desk at the office, that talked about the per capita expenditure of government funds in the counties and actually Collier County ranks amongst the highest in per capita expenditures. So, the millage rate may be low but that's only half the story. MR. DORRILL: It is, and we' re in, like, the top third of all counties for total spending and on an aggregate level we may be in the top ten, state wide, if you include the school board and the independent districts. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: Bill, what is that column furthest to the right, percentage, property value totally exempt? MR. DORRILL.. I'm assuming that that would be primarily state or federal lands. I don't know we can find out. If we're fairly high there, there might be an indi -- but we' re not. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: We' re very low. That was the -- it looks like 16, 16 and a half. MR. DORRILL: If that's a function of property value though, that might still be a reflection of the state and federal lands because they're so poorly assessed or so lowly assessed because most of that land is either the national park or the Big Cypress Preserve whose assessed value is a.percentage of the total, _ ~ ~ ~ ii iii lllll ii I I J . I I I I I III 5 probably is very low. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: It does say percentage of property value. MR. DORRILL: Yeah, as opposed to acreage or something. Mr. Chairman, what we had intended to do, I hope the board members had a chance to look over their agenda. We had given you a sneak preview of this last Tuesday an4 we're prepared to work our way through this and hopefully solicit some comments, some feelings or opinions, from the board members. We have selected the top two dozen goals for this year as it relates to the various divisions of the county government and if there are things that, frankly, we have missed or things that may be a lower priority to the board, that's the purpose of our meeting this morning. And, depending on how quickly we move through we can either break for lunch and go into the afternoon, but we've kept it fairly limited and fairly straightforward this year. We only have three goals for each of the seven divisions and then we have three for the executive offices and we'll move through these quickly and ask that each division administrator make their own presentations but hopefully get some questions and interest from the board members as well and with that, unless you have some remarks, we're prepared to begin. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I Just have some preliminary questions. We're going to address three primary goals for each of the division? MR. DORRILL: Uh-huh. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.' Is it correct for me to assume that each one of the divisions internally has additional goals beyond the-- MR. DORRILL: They do. They all have individual work plans that go down to the department and section level and from our perspective that becomes the individual, what we call, key result areas or individual personnel performance evaluations. So, it goes all the way down to the individual level but there are work plans for every department and every section that are in county gore rnment. COMMISSIONER HASSE.' You have nine of them here now? 7 MR. DORRILL: We have nine total because I've also for the first year we've included the courts and we had touched on the executive offices the other day. While they're not a division, that includes the county manager's office, there are the seven line divisions and then I've also included the courts this year. We have the court's a~inistrator. Mr. Chairman, I didn't know whether you wanted to go over again the ones that we had done last Tuesday. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I think we should, briefly. Mrs. Goodnight was not here. I think it's important for us to go over it one more time. MR. DORRILL: Okay. We'll do this fairly quickly and then we'll move on to the next one. The primary goals that we see within the executive offices that are worth exploring for the coming year include program budgeting which we had indicated to is a modified, zero-based budgeting approach where we will be showing base level program budgeting for everything that we do in the county manager's agency. We're proposing to roll this out or implement it in two years. We want to do all of the tax supported budgets in the first year. The enterprise or special revenue fund budgets the second year, our rational being the tax related budgets are obviously the ones that get the public's attention the quickest. If we feel that we can do it a little faster we'll tell you that but we want to make our priority here tax related budgets. We're suggesting that this be a voluntary program or proposal for the constitutional officers but that they be strongly encouraged to do the same. With that in mind, Mike, have we heard back from any of the constitutional officers with the information we sent them? MR. MCNEES: constitutionals. No, not from any of the I will say that we started to get in some of the packages from the department and we started to look at what the documents are going to look like what the information is going to look like. I think you're going to be pleased with it. We're real happy with how they came out and how clearly they iljustrate how the departments doing. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: What kind of a reaction have you gotten -- 9 MR. DORRILL~ If you don't mind give your name Just so the stenographer will have that. I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: What kind of reaction are you getting from the constitutional officers in terms of the modified zero-based budgeting? MR. MCNEES: We heard just from a couple of them as far as the information and they wanted to see our forms. The sheriff sent someone to pick up forms and to look at the information but we haven't really heard anything as far as whether they want to participate. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I would suggest, it' s obviously going to be a voluntary thing for them, but I would suggest that we schedule a time before the county commission on a Tuesday afternoon, like at 2:00 o'clock or whatever time would be convenient for the constitutional officers to come and have a discussion with them so the commission, as a body, can explain to the constitutional officers how important this is to us. It's voluntary to them but if we simply say it's voluntary and we'll see what happens you're not going to get a very good response. Let's put a little pressure on them. 10 M~. DORRILL~ Well, that's going to occur tomorrow. This is on your agenda for tomorrow. They have been told that this will be on there. That's why we asked them that if they had a concern with the forms or the format that they needed to let us know in advance of Tuesday. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: What I'm concerned about is making sure that they are invited to be at a certain place at a certain time. (]{AIRMAN VOLPE: Why don't I make a phone call to each one of them this afternoon? MR. DORRILL: Or, maybe do it at a time specific, say tomorrow at 3:00 o'clock, we're going to talk about program budgeting and make sure they' re all there. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Why don't I call them on behalf of the board and invite them to be there tomorrow because we are going to be discussing this and come up with a time certain so they'll know when to be there. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think that's fine. MR. DORRILL~ Okay. To close out Just the introduction, again, we're following a very successful model for this type of budgeting that has been an award winning system with the with City of Clearwater. The 11 City of Clearwater has, at least from my perspective and my colleagues around the state, they have one of the more sophisticated budget departments in the state. So, we're using the City of Clearwater~s program budget as a model here. I think it's going to be a very interesting aiscussion for us but I think it will also help the public understand county spending a little easier to see it on a program by program basis. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS= Are we sending somebody up to Clearwater from time to time to check their system out? MR. DORRILL: We did a little better than that, Jean Gansel, who works for us now part-time is the former director of management and budget offices for the City of Clearwater. So, she created this system in Clearwater and we~ve Just swipea it from them. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Great. MR. DORRILL~ Second on our list is to continue to implement, but this year with an eye towards setting goals as part of our quality improvement program on efficiency and that we ought to begin setting targets for productivity and efficiency matters as a policy perspective and I'd like to touch a little bit on our Q-Plus program that we have. Again, this is the system, it's a part of the Demming theory of total quality management and Demming is probably the leading American scholar on quality programs and it's based on a Japanese system of quality management. We've done level one. Level one is creating the quality-plus teams that each of the lying divisions. Level two moves us into after the teams are established and making more task team assignments, like we had a task team to do or management review project Just before the holidays, but to begin setting some efficiency levels and goals that we would strive to meet, to attain, during the course of the year. We'll be telling you a little bit more about that. In that regard, I think Commissioner Volpe had asked last Tuesday to know, you know, what have we spent what are we proposing to spend in the way of training and with Qual-Tech and Mike, I'll let you explain what you've Just passed out. MR. MCNEES~ Well, I've Just given you a breakdown 13 of the three years so far what we spent in the program, what we spent in hard dollars through my office. What you see then are hard cost savings documented are at this point only about thirteen thousand dollars ($13,000.00) based on quick solutions to things that the teams have come up with. Where we are today is in most divisions, the teams are Just coming off the training process. Theytre in their first few meetings and what we hope to see this year is to be able to document more hard cost savings based on team efforts but therets kind of a long training cycle to get the teams up to the point where they really are solving meaningful problems and we knew going in that it would be a good year and a half to two years before we start to really show hard savings. Neil gave an example of the management review team that was sort of a O-I task team. We could have probably hired a consultant to do that work and paid a lot money and that's the case where I think we~ve saved something by doing that internally with a Q-Plus type effort but you can't prove that, you know, how do we value that teamts contributions. There are a lot of those kinds of 14 savings that we haven't really tried to document. So, what you see is to date, we haven't saved a lot of dollars that we can prove but we believe in the course of the next year we'll start to show that we are. CHAIRMAN VOLPE= When we first discussed the Q-Plus program as I recall, just as I mentioned the other day was an alternative to sending people off to various training sessions either within or out of the county, and there's a number that I recall being discussed somewheres in the neighborhood of a quarter of a million dollars and I don't really remember what that represented, whether that was in lieu of our travel expenses and the cost of seminars and so on. MR. DORRILL~ Originally, we had taken and made this our primary training focus for at least last year and we had said and we had reduced our training budgets or our out of county travel budgets for training and moved some money by budget amendment into this training that was done last year, one hundred and twenty-six thousand dollars ($126,000.00) and we may have said that over the three years we'll be close to about a quarter of a million. At least, that's what we have budgeted for 15 this year ts eighty-eighty thousand ($88,000.00). But, our big year was last year in terms of cost and I dontt know that we~ll spend little, if anything, in subsequent years beyond the year that wefre in now. The point being that we were designating employees to become certified productivity trainers and we were training trainers, so to speak, so that we would be doing the training with our own people as opposed to having the consultants to come in. So, where we had incurred money it was to train our own employees to be quality improvement facilitators, lead team members, quality counsel members in the future. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Those three numbers add up to roughly two hundred and fifty thousand dollars ($250,000.00). MR. DORRILL~ And, that's pretty much what we said and where we would be in terms of what it would take to get the system started. CHAIRMAN vor.pE~ So, have we found then that it's not necessary to send as many people off to the training seminars that we have been sending them to? Has that been effective in that regard? 16 HR. DORRILL~ Yes, and we made those changes beginning in last yearfs budget. Our pti -- we continue to do some internal training through our human resource department for performance evaluation, interview and selection criteria. We're getting ready to do a training session on budgeting and people that had been selected that could benefit from, again, internal training, you know, how to prepare and be a better budgetor. We do some of our own internal training. But, in terms of contracted or private training, we have not done that in the last two years. Wefve put all our money into this one program. As an aside, you*ll be getting a cop of a press release, probably later today or tomorrow. Our quality improvement coordinator, Doug Gotham, who has worked for the county for about 14 years and the last two years in this program, has resigned to accept a position with Florida Power a Light who has the leading training program in the state. I know that Florida Power & Light was selected along with the Walt Disney Company to be part of a task force appointed by Governor Chiles to create a program similar to ours at the state level. So, if Florida Power & Light is stealing our people away we must be doing something right and that's one of the positions we'll want to try and replace as soon as we can. But, I think Doug's last day will be tn March with us? MR. MCNEES .. MR. DORRILL: The last day of February. The last day of February. So, he'll be leaving us but that's an indication that at least we must be doing something right if the leading quality Improvement company tn the state has swiped away our man to go to work for them over on the east coast. Pinally, the thing that I had touched on in our office was the concept of expanding on our municipal service, taxing and benefit units for a couple of reasons, is we're increasingly concerned about taxes. The first concern that I had is that increasingly people want less government, not more, on a county-wide perspective. It seems to me that we're going to have to strive to set base levels of governmental services throughout the county on a county wide level. But, then as we see individual communities 18 clamoring to get higher levels of service, and I've touched again on the Pelican Bay situation in law enforcement or some of the things that they would like to see done on, say, Marco Island with zoning or east Naples with lighting and beautificat£on or Immokalee with lighting and beautification. People throughout the year come and Petition the county commission and some of the latest ones, the Forest Lakes communities petitioning the commission to do something about their drainage situation. It seems to me that the thing that would be good for us to look at and evaluate would be to explore having larger and more expensive municipal service, taxing and benefit units where people are petitioning you to raise their taxes for higher municipal or city-type services as would otherwise be provided by the county commission. The secondary, that I think that's important trying to be a little visionary would be to recognize, dependlng on who you talk to, there's continuing interest from time to time, either in incorporation or annexation, where people are again saying we want a higher, more accountable level of governmental service and I think 19 that this is one way at least to the extent that we have thus far that we can offer people these Services and through our system of advisory boards give them more of a say in the program areas that they want their money spent. It runs the gambit again from police protection to drainage to everything in between. I don~t know what's going to come of this but I know we have a couple of existing districts that are looking for some expanded authority in the coming year and again the one that they usually point to is the situation at Pelican Bay but there will be others. So, I~ve proposed us looking at this through the course of the spring and being prepared, perhaps this s~mer, to give further consideration to this type of request. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Neil, how many of these special taxing districts do we have? MR. DOR/~ILLI Well, if you include lighting districts, Itll bet we~ve got 50. MR. MCNEES: Forty-two. MR. DORRILL: Forty-two. consolidate some of them where we can. We might try and This is something 2O for counties throughout the state that has worked awfully well. CHAIRMAN VOnPE= And, I'd ask Tom Conrecode as the person who oversees all of these special taxing? MR. DORRILL= He oversees a lot of them. We're a little fragmented there as well. We have some in water management, for example, the one at Victoria Park and the one at Hawks Ridge have to do only with drainage and so John Bolt is responsible for those. The lighting districts historically have been in transportation. The beautification, the landscaping districts and the larger districts like Pelican Bay are in the project management section under Tom Conrecode. CHAIRMAN VOLPE= How about the road maintenance, is that a special taxing district? that? MR. DORRILL = MR. ARCHIBALD ~ We -- George, why don't you explain We currently have four MSTU's that we tax people within those areas for certain material improvements, primarily, road paving and road services. So, those MSTU's are in place today and available for use. The millage rates currently being assessed 21 would be somewhere in the neighborhood of one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000.00) for each of those per year. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ There are four throughout the county? MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes, and they started with six, five years ago the county was operating in sections, four districts. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Do those districts come close to the districts that we have for our impact fees like, aren't there eight separate -- there are eleven districts now? MR. DORRILL= Probably not. They are some similarities but because you have twice as many road impact fee districts, and that's one of the things we're contemplating as part of our Tindale-Oliver study. Do we really need 11 or 12 impact fee districts when, for example, county wide or area wide we have Just a single district for water and sewer impact fees. We have a single district for EMS impact fees. So we may be contemplating going to a single district for impact fees on transportation. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, Tindale-Oliver is recommending eight from the eleven. If the issue comes up in the context of the discussion that will take place later on in the spring about increase in our road impact fees and some concerns that have been expressed about the use of our gas tax revenues, in the area -- we're ul~ing our gas tax revenues now for capitol projects? MR. DORRILL: Some. MR. ARCHIBALD: Well, really the majority of the gasoline tax now is allocated to maintenance. Only two or three is currently used for capitol. Almost all of the gas tax is for road operations. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: So, as an alternative to perhaps an offset against the increase in the amount of the road impact fees, if there were an opportunity to transfer some of the gas tax revenues from the MSTU's that you've discussed putting them over into the capitol side of the a ledger, that could be used as an offset against the increase in the impact fees and then we would have in place MSTU's to use for the maintenance and you said that it's a very low rate that we' re charging now. MR. ARCHIBALD: Yes, what you're saying, we're 23 reallocating the gasoline tax back to capitol, of course, as you reallocate the gasoline tax to capitol you reduce impact fees by increasing some of the credit. But what you do is create a bigger deficit in the road maintenance area. That could be offset by increasing millage rates within those special taxing districts. COMMISSIONER VOLPE~ Thatts something that we as a board will want to keep in mind as we discuss later on the report of Tindale-Oliver because there obviously is some concern about the magnitude of the increase thatts being proposed for the road impact fees. That may be one much those revenue, existing revenue, sources that we could identify to help perhaps reduce the amount of the impact thatts being discussed. MR. DORRILL= Just in conclusion on this one, you know, once before I know that the board was reluctant moving ahead on somewhat thin ice with the police protection issue but I will tell you that the Pelican Bay people continue to be interested in this. They are interested in it to the extent that if necessary they would like to see it expanded, at least through some of my preliminary discussions with Birney 24 Young, who I believe is either their chairman or he's been designated to work with my office. They're very interested in seeing the sheriff establish a base level of service county wide. And, if that means -- what the sheriff used historically for his criteria was responses to calls for service and depending on where you live you may have more or less road deputies based on the number of calls for help or service that you have. But, then if people want to tax themselves beyond the sheriff's base level of service, they'll be bringing that back to you again and they' re willing to do it in a larger area than Just Pelican Bay if that will help their cause. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ There are a couple of things, I met with the group on a couple of occasions and that is a continuing interest that they have for some enhanced police protection. I think what happened the last time was that we really didn't get as much input as we would have liked to have received from the sheriff himself. I mean, this is a service that he provides. It would seem to me he's got 25 to take the initiative in the first instance and tell us how it is that he thinks he can provide or should provide It seemed like we didntt get as much the services. input. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ Well, since I asked him the question probably ten times at the meeting, do you support the establishment of the MSTU for law enforcement as proposed, and he would not answer the question, yes or no. He danced around it for ten minutes. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ I think itts something that wetre going to hear again but it's something in my opinion that until the sheriff himself says this is the way that it can be done and this is the way that I propose to do it and I am in support of the concept and I~d like for you to cooperate with me in doing it, you know. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: I think if he understands that possibly the concept will reach out throughout the county he may take a completely different attitude than he took with Just the Pelican Bay situation because it was really politica/ly charged. I suspect he would cooperate if he understands fully. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Well, there is a problem with 26 regard to that too, you know, where do you stop and start? You know, you've got a~ministration, you've got the sheriff department and so on, headquarters, all this sort of thing. Are we going to charge a portion off to the special taxing districts? to do? MR. DORRILL~ Is that what we're going I think the p~rception of it last time got ahead of us. The perception was that only the rich communities were going to be able to afford these types of higher levels of service. What the sheriff was trying to say was the cops aren't in Pelican Bay now because the request for service aren't there, you know, without defending communities, the police in North Naples are more apt to be in Naples Park than they are in Pelican Bay. Now, the people in Pelican Bay are trying to say but we're willing to pay for a higher level of road patrol within our community but not at the expense of any of these other canmunities. Unless the sheriff can establish what a base level of service is and by base level meaning everyone is entitled to the protection that they have now, then we probably won't get too far on that. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ We may get some of that information, though, from the work that's being done for the impact fees for the sheriff. MR. DORRILL: Uh-huh, Randy Young is looking at that and he says it's rather interesting. He's not seen this in other areas but he says it's interesting that this may be a very novel concept for us to pursue. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ You mean they haven't done it in other section of this state? MR. DORRILL~ I think when Ms. Goodnight was the chairman, that we did see, I want to say is was Brevard County is using a similar system. They have established a sort of base level of service county wide within the sheriff's department for things like investigative and correctional activities at the Jail but then they use an MSTBU approach to providing and funding road patrol activities in districts. I want to say it's Brevard County but we made a note and we're going to try to find if someone is in fact doing that on the east coast. with that, that was all that I had. 28 CHAIRMAN VOLPEt Just under executive offices, we've had some goals, objectives and measurables from last year. I didn't bring last year's strategic plans with me. But, there seem to me that there were some of those, in particular, I think we put an emphasis on communication, we had a speaker's bureau, getting the message out, those kinds of things that I would like to keep out in front of us. I'm not sure how good of a job we've done in that regard during the last year but there are, you know, we were endeavoring to be the best county government that we could be and also in terms of communicating with our constituents and the like, in service orientation. M~. ~OP~LL: We did things where we never had before and we do, in fact, and have created through Leo Ochs' division a speaker's bureau and we advertise that now to various civic and home owner, property owner associations. We~ve create a interpreter's bureau to be able to assist people with, I think, six or seven different foreign languages. We continue to print a county commission newsletter. We originally, called that the county 29 manager's newsletter and we didn't like the sound of that and we send a county commission newsletter now. We don't do it guarterly anymore. MR. OCHS~ About three times a year. MR. DORRILL~ We have enough money to mail that out to registered voters three times a year. So, we did a series of things. I can't tell you frankly whether -- MR. OC~S~ We had an open house. MR. DORRILL~ Yeah, we had an open house last year for county government and we' re contemplating doing all of that again this year. I can't tell you whether our reputation is any better this year than it was last year but we're doing things we never did before in that regard. CHAIRMAN V0LPE~ Well, one of the things you said with some of the divisions that we're only looking at the top three. Are these the only three that we have or are those for executive offices or are those others still there or some one of them? MR. DORRILL~ Sure, and they remain funded and as part of Leo's work program he is responsible for public affairs along those same lines that we had last year. 3O But, to not overwhelm us, last year I thought we overwhelmed ourselves with goals and objectives and we had a book that was, I think, three hundred pages thick. That's why this year we've just chosen the top three. Okay, Leo. MR. OCHS~ For the record I'm Leo Ochs, Administrative Services Administrator. The first of the three primary goals that we've outlined for administrative service for the balance of this fiscal year has to do with continuing efforts to maintain the rising cost of the board's group medical benefit program. As the board knows, back in October of 1989, the board approved a self funded method of providing group medical benefits not only to board agency employees but also this program covers all county employees including all the employees and eligible dependents of the other constitutional agencies. So, as you can see in the handout, we have a series of general objectives that are outlined for the balance of this fiscal year. In terms of a strategic plan of action in controlling our medical benefits costs, we 31 basically, Jeff Walker, your risk management director, and I have broken this down into five primary components. The first thing we wanted to do was set up a very aggressive hospital pre-certification and utilization review process. We~ve done that and implemented that this past October. Then we wanted tot as a second measurer look at our benefit plan and see if we could incorporate some changes in the benefit plan and the structure of the benefits that would reduce our overall costs. Now, the board may remember back in January of this year, the board approved that series of 15 plan design changes. We implemented those in January of this year and expect on an annual basis to save the plan about three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000.00) through that effort. The third component of our strategy was to institute what's called an IRS Section 125, Cafeteria Benefit Plan. That sounds kind of complex but basically boils down to what that is, is a program that allows employees to buy at their expense additional benefits off of that pre-qualified list with pre-tax dollars. So, it 32 has the double benefit/ for the employer, we save money because our FICA contributions are lower because of that lower gross or taxable gross and the employees save money on their FICA portion plus their federal income tax is slightly reduced. It allows employees to pick and choose the kind of benefits that are more important to them and kind of customize their own program. That was the third element of the program. Wetve got, again, phase one was approved by the board and implemented on January the 1st. We have about 700 new insurance contracts that have been processed in various lines of coverages ranging mainly from supplemental life insurance division care. Again, these are paid one hundred percent by the employee but do benefit the county in terms of reduced FICA taxes to the tune of about seventy thousand dollars ($70,000.00) this year. That was our third element. The fourth element of our strategy with controlling medical costs has to do with looking every year at the marketplace in terms of the premium rates that we charge for both single and family coverage and that includes the overall rate plus the proportionate share that employees 33 with family coverage pay towards that group medical benefit. We are doing that now and we expect to have a series of recommendations to the manager in March and I'm sure he'll be discussing those with all of you as part of the budget deliberation process. The final component, which we'll be bringing to you later on this year or early in the next fiscal year is an area that we call Wellness. Again, what this does is it tries to shift the emphasis of the plan and its expenditures towards prevention as opposed to treatment after the fact. We have, probably 49 to 50 percent of our annual cost of claims are related to in-hospital type stays and related charges. So, clearly, half of our five and a half million dollars that we pay annually in claims are in, in-patient hospitals and related services. SO, the idea behind the Wellness Program is through education, initial screenings for various diseases or conditions and also perhaps a fitness component to emphasize the preventative aspects so we can head some of these large expenses off at the pass, if you will. We can get some early prevention and some treatment either through lifestyle or diet or some other program of treatment, we may save a heart attack or some other large catastrophic illness and save us some dollars in the process. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Leo, the -- obviously, your re familiar with the hospital wellness program and their facilities. They will also conduct a wellness program at the site of a large employer which certainly would be cheaper than trying to create a new program. MR. O(HS~ Thatts a good point commiss~oner. What wetve done, Just recently, our quality counsel has co~missioned me to put together a task team to study this whole Issue of wellness and fitness. One of the expert members of the task team is Linda Hill who*s the sheriff~s fitness coordinator who also worked with the hospltal*s program for three years before co~ing to the sheriff*s agency. So, we' re going in there with a clean -- COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ Just as an example, they have the equipment to do stress tests which would be a large component of the wellness program. The equi~a~ent~s fairly expensive. They've got an operator. They would 35 probably charge Just what it costs to run the test. I think you need to talk to those people. HR. O(~S ~ Sure. MR. DORRILL~ One of our goals is to not, and Co~missioner Hasse asked me on the way up here this morning, he said I hope you're not talking about any new programs or any additional funding requests. We want to go in this using the resources of either Naples Community Hospital or the sheriff or, for that matter the health department has their own fitness coordinator's position, try and use what's already here as opposed to us creating our own position under risk management or wellness program or buying equipment that might duplicate the equipment that the sheriff has or the hospital has. We don't have any intentions of doing that. HR. OCHS~ We're also using, on the committee, Frank Mattera f£om the health department here, they have over in the other wing of this building, some of that similar type of equipment for diagnostics. They also do a lot in the employee education area. So, one of the aspects of wellness would be maybe an internally circulated newsletter that talks about i I II iii II IIIII II I I IIIIIII I I IIIII 36 lifestyles and diets some of these things that can prolong health for individuals and maybe get them back on track. COMMISSIONER MAUNDERS: We still have smoking in some of our buildings in certain designated areas. MR. OCHS~ In designated areas. COMMISSIONER MAUNDERS= Itd like to see us in t92 prohibit smoking in all county buildings. Itt s going to be a difficult thing for some employees but I think everybodyts on notice that thatts ultimately going to happen. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN ~ COMMISSIONER MAUNDERS: us. Check with Jim first. Jim Giles? If Jim will let MR. OCHS= As you know, the board has Jurisdiction of those facilities since they pay the bills. MR. DORRILL~ You own and operate all the facilities and you set the rules and determine the space allocations. COMMISSIONER MAUNDERS= Could you perhaps give us Just a very brief report in the very near future on what the legal authority would be to ban smoking in all county-owned facilities. If you can get that to me I~d like to move on it pretty quickly. CHAIRMAN V0r. PE~ In the same vein, this is something that I had contemplated back six months ago, so -- maybe a little be longer, having to do with a drug free work place and I know that Guy Carlton has tried that program within the tax collector's office and apparently that program with the tax collector was a mandatory drug free work place and he's being challenged in the courts. But, we may want to consider, at least initially, some sort of a voluntary program. MR. DORRILL~ You have a drug free -- not drug free but you have a drug policy as part of your existing personal rules and regulations and I'll ask Leo to touch on that. MR. OCHS~ Right. Basically, what the rule provides for are testing, probable cause or pre-employment testing as part of our normal pre-employment screening process. We don't have random testing as part of the policy. We typically have not done random drug testing primarily 38 because based on the disciplinary case records that I've seen since I've been here for the last five years, you can probably count on one hand those behavioral problems or cases of misconduct that were drug or alcohol related. What we do typically with those, the first step is to get some intervention through your employee assistance program and we monitor and in some cases do follow-up testing again and if there's probable cause, we make that a condition of continued employment. We can do it, it will Just cost some money to drug screen every new applicant, for example, or to randomly test. MR. DORRILL= We've had a half a dozen or so in the last, I'd say two years, we probably had six employees who, as a condition of their continuing employment here, have to submit to required, unannounced or scheduled drug testing in order to keep the Job that they have and then failure to pass any one of those tests results in their immediate termination. CHAIRMAN VOLPE= There is, under the Florida Statutes, if you have a drug free workplace there are certain credits given to perspective contractors who have a drug free workplace. 39 All that kind of thinking in terms of every time someone comes before the board they tell us how much money is being spent on drug and substance abuse and prevention. If it's an important issue, the sheriff comes to us, I mean, we've got so many dysfunctions/ families maybe we ought to, at least, set an example, that it's an important issue and some survey that I've read recently indicated that the issues of drug and substance abuse are one of the primary issues of our concern to this community. MR. OCHS~ I'm not sure we can't qualify as a drug free workplace without having to do go through the lengths of random testing. I think one of the requirements is that you have a policy in place which we certainly do. I think there's another component that has to do with some continuing education which is easily done through payroll stuffers or some other type of information campaign. that. CHAIRMAN ¥OLPE ~ little bit more. COMMISSIONER HASSE So, I'd would be happy to look at If we could Just promote it Just a That may be good but isn't 4O they~ re equipped. MR. DORRILL contract out too. A lot of their lab work, they That complex urinalysis for various drug screening they may not have the ability to do and that's why we're using a contract service or testing lab to do that when we have to do it. there a way, you know, you were talking that five or six people, who handles them? Doesn't the health department do that? Can't we do that in-house? MR. DORRILL~ I don~t know who does the actual testing. They're required to coordinate through the human resource department and probably David Lawrence Mental Health or the hospital. I~m not really sure. MR. OCHS~ We send them out to a screening here, from a diagnostic firm in town that has the equitxnent to do that sophisticated screening. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Don~t they have that here? After all, if we~ve got a building, we~ve got the equipment, we~ve got the people, why not do it here? MR. DORRILL~ You can do it downstairs. MR. OCHS= Perhaps, I don~t that the -- I haven't checked with the health department, whether or not 41 MR. 0CHS~ Just parenthetically, the tax collectorts random testing program was ruled unconstitutional by the attorney general~s office not too long ago, at least -- MR. DORRILLt I~m sorry, say that again. MR. OCHS~ The random testing portion of Mr. Carlton~s plan was struck down by the attorney generales office here about a month ago. That's what I saw in the newspaper anyhow, if that was an accurate report. I believe that it was. Let me Just give you a little quick piece of information here and then I~ll get on to the next one. This represents total medical plan costs for the last three fiscal years, ~90, t91 and ~92. You can see that our, again, projected for this fiscal year, about 5.5 million dollars to sustain your medical benefit program. This is about an eight percent increase from the prior year. This four million, three figure that you see in ~88, ~89, again, was the first year that we went self-funded and does not represent a full 12 months worth of claims paid. You see the 17 percent Jump there in 42 fiscal year ~90, ~91 but that's because we went from about nine months worth of paid claims to a full year. Just parenthetically, the 5.5 that you'll spend this year is still less than the renewal quote that we got from the indemnity insurance carrier back in 1989, ~90. In October of 1989, your insurance carrier at that point wanted five million, five hundred and thirty-two thousand dollars to continue on a traditional indemnity type medical benefit program. So, even though we obviously spend a lot of money in our group medical program yout re still much better off with the decision that you made to self-fund program as opposed to keeping the indemnity program. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ Do we have some catastrophic type of coverage? MR. DORRILL ~ Stop-loss? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ Yeah. What is the maximum amount that the county would be exposed to on a single individual having some catastrophic injury or illness. MR. OCHS: One hundred and twenty-five thousand dollars ($125,000.00), up.to a million Per Person after 43 'chat, $125~000.00. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERSz Is the million per person for the total duration of the -- MR. OCHSz Life of that claim. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ -- time that personts covered or Just for the one claim. MR. O(HS~ Just for the life of that claim. If therets another claim then-- COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ There * s another million. MR. O(~S~ Yes. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ What are we paying for that coverage? I presume that that's not included in the 5.5 million that we~ve spent. MR. OCHS: Yes, it is. It*s total plan costs. That includes your paid claims -- MR. DORRILL ~ A~ministration. MR. O(~S~ Plus your reinsurance, your contract with your contract claims administrator, and your overhead employer, risk management. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Two numbers I would like to know, one, would be the amount that we're paying for the coverage, the million dollar stop-loss coverage and then 44 also how much of that total figure is paid back to us through payroll deductions for the extended family coverage? I think wet re charging them twenty dollars a month or twenty-five a month per employee. MR. OCHS~ Your stop-loss premium on an annual basis is a hundred and one thousand, three hundred sixty- six dollars ($101,366.00.) That is down actually, from two hundred and thirty thousand (230,000.00) last year. Primarily itt s down because the board implemented those plan design changes that were then recognized by the reinsurer and reduced their liability and in turn reduced our premium costs this year. MR. DORRIL~.~ That's for the total group. In this instance, the county co~mission =uns the self insurance program for any county employee. While you have nine hundred and something employees, the group costs in this case are for almost 1900 employees, it includes all of the constitutional officers and the court system as well. So, these costs here are for, I guess, 1900 employees and I don~t know how many dependents are covered under the -- MR. OCHS~ You have over 300 total -- 3000 total 45 insured in the plan right now. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: So, we're paying about two thousand seven hundred dollars per employee? MR. OC~S: For that coverage? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: No, for the entire plan. Rough numbers. Dick is the mathmetician here but I think it was 2000 employees into the 5.5 million. So, is that a number -- HR. OCHS~ Twenty-nine hundred dollars per employee, Per year, this fiscal year for your medical -- COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: How does that number compare to other similar sized employers or can you make a comparison? MR. OCHS: I've got a graph if you want to see it. It's not a local market. board -- COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I meant to show this to the Leo, aB far aB I'm concerned, you can provide this later. This will give us a little bit of an indication of how good our plan really is by breaking it down a little bit. MR. DORRILL~ My impression is we have an average plan for employees. We have a better than average plan 46 for dependent coverage and that's why in both of the last two years we have been requiring employees to pay more per month for dependent coverage. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's an issue that we're going to debate during the budget process, do they want to increase the employee contribution. MR. DORRILL~ Right. And, annually we have to balance that against what if any cost of living adjustment is included as part of our pay for Performance because you need to know that so that you don~t give them on the one hand 'X" Percent for satisfactory work and then take it away entirely or more so. But, I agree with you. We have a better than average plan for dependent coverage, at least when we compare ourselves to others. C~AIRMAN VOtPE: On the other hand, when the county was unde~writing the entire cost of health ~nsurance we didn't factor that into the percentage increase that the employees received. MR. DORRILL ~ COMMISSIONER HASSE: people we' ve got? MR. DORRILL ~ That's correct. That varies with the number of It does and then again those are 47 total costs and obviously thatts, depending on the nature of the individual claims, some people get a great benefit out of it. Others, who have never filed a claim get -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Zilch. MR. OtiS: This is your employee portion of the dependent care premiums. Youtll see on a percentage basis, FY ~89, ~90 it was twenty-nine dollars and fifty cents ($29.50), we brought it up to forty-five dollars ($45.00), which is a 52 percent increase. In FY t90, ~91, we brought up another 10 to $55.00 per month, which is a 22 percent increase over ~90, ~91. Itt s still a very competitive, attractive rate as compared to the market for dependent coverage contributions. So, itt s one of the benefits that typically we hear from new employees or candidates for Jobs that's it's very attractive and one of the things I think is a great recruitment tool for us. This is Just some breakdown of information over time. You can see your average paid claims, your fixed costs, again, thatts your reinsurance, your claims a~ninistration and your overhead in risk management. Enrollment, actually, is down slightly this year 48 due to the hiring freeze. We have fewer people enrolled in the plan and there's some history there on your rates for employee and employee dependent that we're looking at some alternatives based on the market survey that's underway right now. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS.. That 55 is, pardon my ignorance, I forgot, is that per pay period or per month? MR. DORRILL.. Per month. MR. OCHS: Per month. Any other questions on the medical program? If not, we can go ahead and move along. MR. DORRILL: Again, I think that points to the, the fact that we ought to look at a wellness program when you're paying claims out at the rate of a hundred thousand dollars a week. The more, the extent to which you have a more in shape and less high risk employee group, whether encourage stop smoking or drinking, you know, increase health you can really realize some quick returns if your employee group as a whole is in better shape than they would be without an encouraged or required health program as a function of the health insurance plan. 49 COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Does that include physicals or anything throughout the year? MR. DORRILL~ Thatts total so that any claim filed under that. Itt s cost us about a hundred grand a week to be able to pay the claims that are there. MR. OCHS~ Just one more point on that issuew even though your costs are continuing to rise, again, this year as compared to last year, the costs will be up about eight percent or slightly more than eight percent. When you consider medical inflation alone is running about 15 percent a year I think that there is some comfort in the fact that the employees are smart about the way they utilize the plan and that your staff is trying to do what they can to manage and control the level of increase in those costs. CHAIRMAN V0~.PE~ Commission Saunders mentioned something about working out or discussing with the hospital about a wellness program. They have that nutritional program now, called New Direction and the like. But, BancFlorida has their own in-house person and I~m sure that maybe Florida Power & Light has own their in-house person. That may be an alternative to be explored simply because from the perspective of cost effectiveness it might be. MR. DORRILL~ Thatts when I answered Commission Saunders. The county, generically, has two in-house people. The sheriff has someone whots full-time responsible for their wellness program. The health department has a full-time wellness coordinator. And, what I said was before we even considered having our own, we ought to use or participate with either the sheriff or the health degartment because of the nature of the fact that theytve already got people providing these types of services. We should explore very seriously getting-- CHAIRMAN VOLPE= Who does the health department provide that service to? MR. DORRILL= Their own employees as well as people that are referred there from the, you know, the health clinic people that have high risk health and fitness probl ems. HR. OCHS~ Clients in the co~unity. Okay, the second strategic goal was to maintain our capitol asset values in all of our buildings and grounds through continued emphasis on our facilities management 51 operation. We have four or five primary objectives there. Number one, is to maintain a formal preventive maintenance program that we first implemented in 1989 and '90. We found that prior to that we were running around chasing problems all the time after they occurred at a high rate of emergency repairs. So, what we did, we put together a five man crew that primarily went out and proactively surveyed our buildings, did periodic inspections of all our mechanical systems, changed filters, light bulbs, et cetera, in the hopes of catching a lot of these problems before they affected the customer and required an emergency type repair. We found that it's been very effective. We invested over 12,000 manhours this past year in the preventive maintenance program. We're finding that our overall number of workorders are beginning to trend down due to the fact that we're getting more of these problems corrected on the front end and therefore spending actually less overtime for repair calloutsw et cetera. The second item is to continue the scheduled building and mechanical system renovation projects that we have in this year ts budget. Facilities management is responsible for a portion of the capitol projects that are budgeted in you= 301 fund, primarily, having to do with renovation of facilities, either replacing roofs or air conditioning systems or doing some additional renovation or construction. Wet re staying on schedule, primarily, and I think we're on schedule within budget for most of our projects. Wetve got 19 of those projects identified in your 301 fund this year that facilities has responsibility for. The value of those in the aggregate is about three million dollars so itt s a substantial effort. One of the projects that we are running behind schedule with is Building B and I know wetve gone back and forth on that a little bit in the past few months but thatts a project that we're working with the manager's office to trying to get some additional alternative so we can come back to the board in the near future and get a decision on whether we want to move ahead with any kind renovation work on that building this year. MR. DORRILL~ Building B, being the old health department building that's adjacent to Building P. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ That's on hold at this point in time? MR. DORRILL~ It is. We're trying to see if we can do it in-house or at the same level that we renovated in-house Building A, the sheriff's department, the old courthouse building, at about half the cost per square foot as to what had been budgeted. Leo's given me a proposal to do that and I Just -- it's been one of those things that haventt been critical enough to rush through so wetre holding that particular project. We're trying to develop an alternative to do it at how much a square foot? Construction costs would be under $51.00 MR. OCHS~ a square foot. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN ~ And, that building started out at about a hundred dollars per square foot as I recall. MR. DORRInL t Uh-huh. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Hasn't the board authorized some work on third floor here at Building H? MR. OCHS~ Yes. We had three bids Just last week 54 on that. The plan is to renovate half of that floor for occupancy primarily by environmental services staff and then there's a kind of a domino affect when they move out of a 'G", Mr. Giles wants to consolidate his microfilming operation which is partly in renovated Building A and partly in Building F and bring that together in Building B along with his mailroom. So, we're working on both of those projects and will be coming back to the board and suhait a contract to the board. CHAIRI4AN VOLPE~ So, are those the two primary capitol projects then, Building g and Building B? MR. DORRILL~ Those are the biggest ones. You have some other renovation work, some roofing work. MR. OCHS~ We're replacing five roofs and five air conditioning systems in primarily outlying facilities in I~okalee and other areas of the county that are twenty years old and try to get those cycled through. Once they get that all squared away. MR. DORRILL~ We're either Just about, as an example to award a bid to renovate the roof and air conditioning at the CHSI Building in I~okalee which is the federally funded clinic but you own and operate the ~. O~S~ About to. ~. O~S~ The next tim ts ~o evaluat~ the cost eEEecblveness oE bhe currenb con~gac,oc's for both ou~ custodi~ se~tce and ou~ lawn maintenance and ~rounds maintenance here at ~he gove==en~ complex. We've had s~e success tn this past year doing that tn our fleet management area and we're Just doing the an~ysts cent,act versus ,n-house fo, both custodt~ and grounds maintenance we've given that Information to the manager an~ also to the board, p~o~bly as part of the ~. ~ILL= We had an indication as we we're a~ut to o~n and have o~ned the n~ lfbra~ that our conk~ct cos2~ ~e~en't ~here ~e 2hou~hk 2h~ eho~d because we had an tndt~tion that we co~d hire our own staff and do ~t as cheaply ~f not cheape~ th~ the ~ntract provi~r and what you mq see, I don~t w~t us to get into the point of where we' =e hiring our ~n custo~ st~f a~in because we haven't done that tn ' 56 years. If our costs had escalated, this may be a good time to re-bid our custodial contract and also our grounds maintenanoe contract then we negotiated a lower price for the library ~n lieu of hiring county employees because I don~t want to add people to the payroll at this point. But, that's something that Leo~s going to be looking at this summer is whether or not we need to rebid those two contracts. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Do we take into consideration where the people come from, whether they come locally or they come from the east coast or from where? MR. OCHS: Under the contractual arrangement, no we don~t. That's the prerogative of the employer. Where we're primarily concerned with is that theytre Performing as the contract provides for. MR. DORRILL~ The current provider has a local company here but he is -- the corporate offices are out of Philadelphia. MR. OCHS~ Yeah, theytre out of Pittsburgh. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Well, that's not what I~m talking about. I~m talking about the employees that he hires. We have people here that are out of work and we go to the east coast7 MR. OCHS~ He hires local people primarily. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Are you sure7 MR. OCHS~ He has a supervisor that works out from the corporate office but is on site here. MR. DORRILL~ Who is a local employee. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Wetre talking about grounds maintenance or are we talking about custodial? MR. DORRILL~ Both. MR. OCHS~ Both. MR. DORRILL~ Itts not the same company. Grounds maintenance is different. We Just awarded a new contract on October the First for grounds maintenance. MR. O(HS= Right, and thatts an annual contract. We have a renewal option if the board chooses to exercise it. The custodial contract was a long term contract that is expiring this year, will be back out to bid, regardless of what the analysis shows, wet re going to continue with putting our specification together and weWll be going out to bid this summer and see what kind of bid price or competition wet re going get on the 58 custodial services. CHAIRMAN VOLPE= What happened with the sheriff? At one point the sheriff had indicated that some of his awards were going to be available to assist us in these areas. HR. OCHS= He~s doing that. Primarily, on the weekends, they empty all the trash cans twice a week and then on the weekends they also have their community service people police all the parking lots for debris and do some sweeping. So, there was an arrangement there where there was a revenue transfer of a certain amount of money -- HR. DORRILL= Wetve done some other things. He's cleaned up a couple of the lakes. I know they work a crew, I know they work a crew every Sunday. MR. OCHS = Right. HR. DORRILL= There have been occasions when we~ve worked some Saturday crews as well. CHAIRMAN VOLPE= Who coordinates that, Skip Camp, who does that? HR. DORRILL= With the head Jailer at the Jail. We're using people that are on weekend release or 59 community service to do that. COMMISSIONER SHANARAN~ You know, based on the economic conditions that are out there today we ought to be reviewing any contractual arrangement that we have. You hear over and over again that everybodyts fighting for every potential Job thatts out there and the prices are down, they're at their lowest level ever and it provides an opportunity for us to bring our base down as well. MR. DORRILL~ We, in that regard, have Just renegotiated some of our engineering agreements, you know, from the glory days of the late 80's. When, for senior principal engineers with some of our civil engineering firms were paying up to $120.00 an hour. We're renegotiating those now, and we're seeing costs of almost 25 percent less than them and they want our business and so it's a good time for us to go and renegotiate. CHAIRMAN VO~.PE~ Neil, just with the sheriff, are we working St. Matthew's house, are we working with any of these other agencies, agencies, any of these 'other organizations to try to use some of their people where we 6O can? MR. OCHS~ We have not, no. C~AIRMAN VOLPE~ ThatWs something we hear all of the time in terms of there are people who are willing to work. So, if there was some opportunity for us to hire some of the manual laborers through St. MatthewWs House or some of these day laborer arrangements. MR. DORRILL~ We, occasionally, do contract day labor on top of the free labor wew re getting from the sheriff. Whether we have ever exglored doing that with St. Matthews, the problem being that even with day labor, the employer has got to have worker's comp insurance on any day laborer that you hirer, hews got to keep records. I donWt know whether St. MatthewWs or some of the other agencies are set up to handle the clerical task of contracting with us for day labor. COMMISSIONER RASSE~ You might have some trouble. I read in the paper this morning that these gentlemen that you see out there with the signs, 'Will work for food', make a $100.00 a day on doing that. So, thatts not a bad deal. MR. OCHS~ Okay, our next area is Just, again, to 61 · continue the initiatives that have been made with the Automated Energy Management System. We have that system installed in buildings, F, L, H, C, Building D is on schedule this year to be completed and implemented or outfitted, I should say, with the energy management system. Right now, that controls our air conditioning and heating systems. In this building also, it can control the lighting and has the capacity to control security in all the facilities as well. MR. DORRILLI I dongt know how many of you aware of that and I~ll Just throw these things in, we have a computer system now that runs the heating and chilling and the lighting levels for all of those buildings that he Just mentioned. There had been certain meetings in the evening in Building F where we had to make arrangements to have the computer overridden if we were going to work late that night because the computer will automatically shut the air handlers and the chillers down and will turn lights off at certain level in the event the people don*t or in order to save money. What were the buildings that are part of system again? MR. OCHS: We have F, L, H, those are the new buildings. Building C and Building D will be finished before the end of this fiscal year. MR. DORRILL~ Payback on that, the investment, you have to go and do some remedial wiring and stuff in the buildings in order to have the circuits be able to be remotely turned on and off by the computer. Our payback on that is less than five years I think. MR. O(~Sz Like three years. MR. DORRILL~ We'll recover all of our capitol costs to retrofit these buildings in three years in terms of the energy that we've saved. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Is FP&L giving us any credit for that type of a system? MR. DORRILL~ They do. We have a negotiated rate. We're paying the lowest utility rate that you can get because of, it's called shearing, I don't know what the term for it is. MR. OCHS~ I don't recall the technical term for it. We meet almost regularly with FP&L because they do give us discounted rate by that bulk-type rate for a facility our size. 63 MR. DORRIL~.~ We do the same for our major utility plants. We get a cheaper rate per kilowatt hour because itts a shear rate and within 30 minutes notice youtve got to be able to generate your own power in the event of a brownout state wide or something like that. As a result of that, every month we get a discount rate from even the commercial rate that we would otherwise pay. MR. OCHS~ The last two items, real quickly, there's a new federal law called the Americans with Disabilities Act which has a couple different primary components to it. One, which has to do with publio accommodations or making public accommodations or facilities accessible for disabled people. Again, one of our objectives for the balance of this year is to insure that this county is fully compliant with all of the provisions of the particular federal law. The public accommodation aspects of the law went into effect January the 26th of this year and then there's a whole other series of personnel related impacts that go into effect on July 26th of this year. So, we~ll 64 be working with both the facilities an~ then again in human resources over the balance of this year to make sure that wet re compliant with the provisions of that new law. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Itm glad we don~t have any subways. HR. OCHS~ The last item is, again, on efficiency effort, automate our workorder processing and building functions so that an employee can sit at a computer terminal in Building F, for example, call up a work order, fill it out electronically, mail it over to the facilities where they can then issue the work order and then input the final cost for labor and materials and then have bills automatically generated and reconciled back through the finance system in Mr. Yonkosky~s operation. I think we can turn things around, less paperwork, I think it's more efficient. MR. DORRILL~ This is something we're going to have to do because two of the employees associated with our management review cuts, formally were responsible to manually prepare all of the work orders and all of the bills to charge out to all of the departments. 65 Two of the positions that are proposed to be phased out are going to be replaced with an automated system, where you will order a repair over your computer terminal and the computer will determine the billing rate and the hours. So, we're automating that whole particular process and we'll have to have that ready to go by the end of the year. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Are we including any of the constitutional officers or -- MR. DORRIr. L~ Anyone who is part of our electronic mail system. I know the clerk and Ms. Morgan are on system. The sheriff is now on it as well and I know the tax collector and the property appraiser have access to it. So, the answer is yes. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ They have access to it~ do they use it? MR. DORRILL~ Theyt re going to have to. COMMISSIONER HASSE ~ Okay. MR. OCHS~ We can still do it manually but we prefer to do it automated if we can. This is the last graph I'm showing. I wanted to point this out to the board so you can get kind of a snap 66 shot of where we're heading. It concerns me to a certain extent. If you look at the square footage increase, this is from 1988 through 1992, our square footage has increased to about 48 percent. Our maintenance budget has gone up about 37 percent in that same period of time. Our personnel in the maintenance section as the manager Just mentioned, wetre actually losing people in that area, so our personnel compliment is down about four percent. Your good news is your maintenance cost per square foot is down also about 8 percent and the square foot maintained per worker is up 58 percent. So, therets some good news there in terms of your cost but when you get to a point of diminishing returns when we had 25 people in 1988, now we have 24 and next year we're losing two more people out of the maintenance section. So, itt s becoming increasingly ~/fficult to maintain your facilities with the number of people available to do the work and I Just wanted to point that out so the board understands where the trends are heading here. MR. DORRILT.~ The POint being here, we cut this one 67 as close as we can. I mean, we're right on the edge. You own and operate, probably county wide, two million square feet of property, real property? MR. OCHS= Probably about a million and a half. MR. DORRILL= Okay, a million and a half square feet. It's being maintained by Just 24, soon to be 22 employees. We have cut our costs as closely here as we can and you can see while your costs per square foot to own and maintain property have gone down in the last couple of years, itt s because the number of employees are physica/ly maintaining almost 50 percent or more square foot per man, per man hour, than they ever have before. This is one department that I think has done on the maintenance side, is doing you a real good job maintaining the assets that you have for less and less money each year as opposed to more money. COMMISSIONER HASSE ~ automation? MR. DORRILL ~ A lot of that is because of Some, but also increasing or improving the way that they approach and assign theytre work without seeing an increase in repairs because, you know, you can get to the point to where you dontt 68 maintain your buildings and they begin to fall apart on you and thatts been our concerning that we dontt cut our nose off to spite our face. We need to maintain the stuff that we own but do it as efficiently as we can. MR. OCHS: 0uite frankly, some of the things that we used to do in this area, in terms of what we call special services, we Just don~t do them anymore. Or, if we do them, instead of taking two weeks to get done it may take two months to get that Job done. What we do in those cases, we call the customer and say, we can get this done for you but it's going to be 60 days from now so, you decide. If you can wait, this is our cost to do it and when we can do it. If not, herets a list of contractors that can do the work, feel free to call them and get some prices. MR. DORRILL: Some examples, we used to build a lot of our own furniture. We dontt build our own furniture anymore. We don~t do our own formica work, is a good example. We don~t hang pictures on walls anymore. We dont t move furniture back and forth across the campus because we~d rather be spending our electricians and our plumbers and our HVAC mechanics time doing the type of 69 stuff they ought to be doing than making formica furniture or bookcases or hanging pictures in offices. So, we haventt done any of that work probably in what, two years? MR. OCHS~ T~o years. COMMISSIONER HASSE ~ Who does it? MR. DORRILL~ Nobody. The point being that you ought to be able to hang your own picture. If you need a bookcase bad enough, you ought to be able to find money to buy one as opposed to having one custom made for your office. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Nell, the concept of rent an employee which is kind topical now, has the county considered any type of a program such as that? MR. DORRILL~ Yeah, we have but there have been some recent IRS problems associated with that. Leo, I think the question is in terms of a full-time temporary contract type employment. I know Mr. Yonkoski has some concerns about that. MR. OCHS~ Are you alluding to the leasing concept that was in the paper last Sunday. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Yes. 7O MR. OCHS: No, we have not looked at that. It's typically geared towards small employees that don't want to incur the overhead expense of processing payroll and insurance benefits, et cetera, for those people. We haven't looked at that but we certainly can talk with the finance people who process the payroll for the boards. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I'm not sure that there's an advantage to it but obviously it's some that other employers have come to -- MR. DORRILL: Yeah, I think you're talking about something other than what I have just said, but then I don't are read the paper so I wouldn't have seen it. MR. O(~S~ I know what you're talking about. We can take a look at it and see. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Well, I was thinking about the carpenters, if we need some carpenters to do some work. Rather than going out and letting an individual office or division contract with someone to do some carpentry work you might have a situation where you would actually, for whatever projects you have to undertake, period of, you know, two weeks or whatever where you'd actually lease 71 some carpenters to do the work. MR. DORRILL~ It's worth looking at. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Again, I don't know that there's any advantage but it might be something that we ought to at least look into. MR. DORRILL~ Leo, why don't you move us on into your last area and let's try to finish this by 10230 Just to keep us on point. MR. OCHS~ The last area represents the top three goals, that we're looking at is maintaining your capitol asset value in your fleet, motorized equipment. The board remembers this current fiscal year we obtained authorization from you to move away from the contract service and take responsibility for fleet management and fuel management, in-house with county employees. Most the objectives here are listed, and I won't go through them, relate to gaining efficiencies and reducing costs in that regard. I'll Just share one graphic with you and I think this will give you an idea of how we're trending so far in this effort. These are first quarter numbers and what you see 72 here, the blackend bar, are actual expenses for the contract service for the prior quarter of ~90, ~91. The second bar indicates this yearts budget which is reduced by $186,000.00 as a result of taking the service over in-house and the third bar represents our actual expenses this quarter. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Leo, could you move the chart a little bit so would, could see what the left hand axis is in terms of dollars? MR. OCHSt Is that better? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ Good. So, the total expense was, in t90, ~91 was Just over 400,000? MR. OCHS~ That's correct, 409,700-- MR. DORRILL= For the first quarter. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ Oh, this is quarterly? MR. OCHS= The is quarterly. The first quarter, under the contract service, last year~s first quarter expenses, $409,730.00. This year~s budget for that same period, $340,203.00 and our actual expenses against that budget, $293,961.00 for the first quarter of the year for labor, parts and sublets and overhead. MR. DORRILL~ So, wetve saved about 110,000 for the first quarter? MR. OCHS~ Yout re 28 percent lower than what it cost you last year to do this with the contractor. Your re 14 percent below what we budgeted ourselves for the first quarter this year. So, the trend looks encouraging at least through the first 90 days of the program. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Your inventory of parts will be similar to what it was under the general contractor ? MR. OC~S~ Itt s less. We always suspected, and that's one of the areas we told the board this past summer that they had more in their inventory than they needed. They were buying more product than they were turning around in an appropriate period of time. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: You dontt anticipate at the end of the year needing to purchase more parts and -- MR. O~HS~ No, no. MR. DORRILLI We're buying them straight from the parts houses. I spent a work day out there recently and you can get parts around town, like, with within 30 74 minutes if you call one of the major parts houses that's on our annual bid for car parts and theytll deliver to your location within 30 minutes. So, we have kept our investment in parts to practically nothing. It's like -- what's our parts inventory running now? HR. OCHS~ About 30 or $40,000.00-- HR. DORRILL~ The contractor had $200,000.00 worth of parts that he maintains. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ The reason I asked the question is that we're showing some savings so far and that sounds like a significant amount of that savings may very well be that we've reduced the inventory of parts. So, at the end of the year we may not have quite the savings that we anticipated. I'll Just have wait and see how that turns out. MR. DORRILL ~ I agree. MR. OCHS~ ! think if you look at the overhead section you will see that they're up, those expenses are up and part of that is due, commissioner, to your point. To start up, we spent some money in upgrading the facility for a worker's safety perspective and we've also purchased some d~agnostio equi~ment that we hadntt had in the past that~s a/lowing us to do more work in-house which is helping our is sublet costs we made low relative to the prior year. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Has there been any change in efficiency and repairs. MR. OCHS~ Down time, equi~ment availability is about the same as it was under the prior contractor, so far. But, again, wet re only ~90 days into it. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ I understand. MR. OCHS~ That's all I had unless you have any questions. The only other point I want to make is the fleet management area has to do with the fueling system. We have four, automated, fuel dispensing facilities. The fifth one is in the 301 budget to be installed out at Cams Town this year before the fiscal year is out. Again, we have a fully automated system. We~ve got into some Joint ventures, bulk rate purchases with the school boards and the city that has saved about $20,000.00 in fuel costs and we're about to open a bid for automotive parts and tires with those same two 76 entities along with the sheriff. So, wet re trying to take advantage of some economies there. The only high risk area or area of exposure is in this contamination and site clean up of contaminated old fuel sites. As we remove old ones and install new ones a great deal of detail work that we have to do to make sure the sites are in good shape and if there's any contamination we'll have to get those cleaned up. We~ve spent about $30,000.00 on an assessment out at the county barn facility last year. We're incurring higher costs than that at the government center. There was a detection of some ground water contamination in the facility. We have out here now, we're working through Bill's office and George Yilmaze to get those things up to state code. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Leo, how many employees have vehicles now that they take home? Do you see any savings or any potential savings in reducing that number and requ~ring those people to -- MR. DORRILL~ There really arentt any left. If you'll remember, last spring we went through this. Jennifer, usually keeps that list in our office. MR. O(~S~ I sent a report to the productivity committee Mr. Canter asked for some follow up a few weeks ago. One of those things were that are. This past year the 24 hour take home vehicle list was are reduced by 27 percent. So, you have 13 vehicles that are authorized to go back and forth. MR. DORRILL~ Out of how many? How many do we own? Whatt s the rolling stock? MR. OCHS~ We have 208 motorpool vehicles. We have over 400 primary pieces of equipment. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ Those 13 are people that are essentially 24 hour call? MR. OCHS~ Theytre exclusively public safety. MR. DORRILL~ They're required to be public safety. MR. OCHS~ Including animal control also. MR. DORRILL~ Well, yeah, and first responders in the event utilities. The think the chief water operator, the chief sewer operator, but there is no one else. So, we're down to 13 out of two hundred and how many? MR. OCHS~ It's 208 motorpool vehicles. MR. DORRILL~ If you compare that to I think the sheriff ts number of take-home vehicles are is excess of 78 three hundred. C~AIRMAN VOLPE~ Yes, that's a different Issue though. There was some discussion when we were talking about fleet purchases about policies and procedures for people who do take their automobile home. MR. DORRILL~ There is a criteria now. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Has that been established? MR. DOI~RILL ~ Yes. MR. OCHS~ The manager has two administrative policies that he had put together this summer and have been distributed to his agency. One to do with this area of utilization and assignment of vehicles. The other has to do with how we~ re going to manage this 200 plus motor pool vehicle and the manager's established a minimum monthly mileage criteria. Twice a year, our fleet analyst look at all of our vehicles, see who~s not meeting that requirement and then they move those vehicles around where needed and those that arenft needed we put into surplus. MR. DORRILL~ Rationale being, what's the n~nber of miles that you have to drive, from the minimum number? MR. OCHS~ Well, we donft have a minimum number 79 anymore, we have five criteria in the system. MR. DORRILL~ The point being that if you're not using vehicles for 500 miles of official business per month then it's cheaper for us to pay you a car allowance or to reimburse the employee for driving their own vehicle for those instances so we've been taking vehicles away. In fact, my office was one we had a staff car in the county manager's office and we didn't drive it enough to be able to Justify being able to keep it. So, they took it away from us. MR. OCHS~ In fact, this fiscal year, again, as a result of last summer's work we didn't buy any new vehicles all for motorpool. There was about a dozen scheduled and what we did look at our utilization, pull vehicles from other areas that were underutilized, assign them to those people that have requested new vehicles that have established a need and basically eliminated any -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ What of the state's attorney's office, are they part of this program? MR. DORRILL~ They' re part of your motorpool 8O program, they're not under my policies though with respect to take-home allowances. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Health department also? MR. OCHSt The health department has about seven vehicles that the county owns. The state's attorney has about seven vehicles that the county owns and they have about seven more that the state has purchased for them that are primarily undercover type vehicles. They use, as I understand it, Jennifer and I have talked about this in the past, they use a portion of the county's subsidy to their budget to pay for their ongoing maintenance of most of those vehicles. But, I think, again, we have some obligation under state statute to provide for-- MR. DORRILL~ We have one for the public defender as well. MR. OCHS~ Yes. CHAIRMAN VOLP]~ So, are they not being maintained as part of our fleet maintenance program? MR. OCHS~ Only those, for example the state's attorney, he's got seven that are ours that we maintain. He got another seven or eight we don't maintain those. 81 MR. DORRILL~ Anything we own we maintain. MR. OCHS ~ Right. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ Does fleet repair maintenance service program with the sheriff look promising or is it too early to tell. MR. OCHS~ It's a little early. We~ve only had two meetings. We're going to continue to meet. I think there's a possibility but I~d like to reserve Judgement right now. COMMISSIONER SHANA~AN~ There's a lot of vehicles there. MR. OCHS~ Yes, sir. Thank you. MR. DORRI~.L~ We~ll take a short break. Take about a five minute recess. (A recess was had and proceedings continued as follows~) (At this time, Commissioner Saunders left the board room and did not return.) MR. BRUTT~ For the record, Frank Brutt~ Community Development Services A~inistrator. Our first goal we have identified in our strategic plan for the coming year to reorganize the community development division as a 82 result of the management study that we prepared and presented to you last week. During the presentation by Mr. Barber who is the chairperson of the development service steering committee he made several recommendations and on the handout that I gave you, on the second and third pages, essentially the way the study came out originally, if you look at that first page it has a number 15 on the lower corner, the management study that was developed and submitted to you for consideration -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Frank, which one are we talking about, now, the handout? MR. BRUTT: Looking at three page memo at the bottom of that is page 15, on the right hand is page 15 of another report. In the original study -- in the original study, the housing and urban improvement department was mentioned as being self-functional with no further consideration to it. In the report that Mr. Barber presented to you, their recommendation is that the housing and urban improvement actual function or related to social services and perhaps should be moved to another area of county 8~ government. So, thatts one difference between their study, meaning the developaent services steering evaluation and recommendation. The two departments, growth management and growth planning in the original management study and also the comments by Don barber, both of them are indicated to be merged together. If you will turn to the next page which is identified as page 16, interestingly enough, the original study recommended that the customer service agent function, those are the people on the counter, the people doing records functions'~ the issuing of the building permits and counter functions be combined with project review functions that John MadaJewski takes care of. In Mr. Barberts presentation, the recommendation is the customer services functions as I mentioned Joe Magri is taking care of right now, would be moved to over to compliance services to be incorporated that way. Either way, those operations can operate smoothly. Whether Joe Magri~s group operates with and under the compliance services or over with, what is identified here on this sheet, project review functions with John 84 MadaJ ewski. C~AIRMAN VOLPE~ projects review? MR. BRUTT~ Would planning services go under Well, I haven't gotten to planning services yet. In both of the presentations, planning services are indicated as being split. Some of the planning services staff that you're familiar with at the county commission meetings will be going to growth planning and growth management and some staying with project review, specifically, those working with the site development plan. So, in essence, I've got about six variables to look at relative to the two plans and the best utilization of the staff positions. So, obviously a little additional work is going to be required, some additional guidelines, hearing your discussions and deliberations from last Wednesday night they were several comments made relative to utilizing vacancies that exist at the present time and best utilization of the staff. So, our work is a little more complicated than I had indicated originally trying to accomplish this in 20 days but we are moving ahead with it. I will be meeting with Don Barber with the development steering committee on Wednesday of this week to start reviewing their input and the reasons that they suggested certain staff movement. If you have any questions I~ll be happy to attempt to answer them. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ The goal is 20 days. MR. BRUTT~ Twenty days prior to the time that Don Barber came up with their representations because their recommen~ations have a few switches that I mentioned, the major one is the customer service agents. The first study he said working under John Madajewski~s project review functions and Don Barber's recommendation is that the customer service agents be under the direction of the compliance services. So, we~ve got to look at some lines and responsibilities and interaction on how that~ll take place. Also, the same thing as far as planning services, the best utilization and the best staff to accomplish the mission of both the project review when the project is going through the site development plan into construction 86 and those planning items that are caning to you. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ I asked about twenty days, Frank, excuse me for interrupting, is because this year in discussing the process of strategic planning with the manager, wetve talked about some performance indicators so that we can measure our successes and you your performance indicator is that within 20 days so it seems to me we ought to have, you're suggesting that 20 days was your original goal but now with some later developments, what is the period of time we may be talking realistically. MR. DORRILL~ My understanding of the motion the other evening on Wednesday was that Cc~_~issioner Goodnightts motion was essentially three parts, the one that related to development services, was to work with the development service steering com~ittee and monitor the existing service levels but be prepared to propose any other reorganization as a part of the budget presentation later this summer. that's been modified somewhat. prepared in advance of that. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ My understanding is This was obviously So, you're saying that this may not be until June or July of this year? MR. DORRILL~ Probably June. When are the tentatively budget workshops with the manager scheduled for, June? So, I~d have to have my plan ready for June. Ytall typically take the month of June off. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT ~ July. MR. DORRILL~ So, Itd have to have these ready to present to you as soon as you get back from vacation or recess at the end of July. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ So, are we saying August, Neil? Is that what we t re saying now? MR. DORRILL~ I~d have to have my recommendations ready by the time he suhnits his budget. He su~nits his budget to me by June so I~d have to know what my plan is going to be by June. MR. MCNEES~ Last year the board workshopped everything before they went on vacation. MR. DORRILL~ That~ s right. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Last year we worked the last part of June and then we took off the last week in June first two weeks in July. MR. DORRILL: And, did enterprise budgets. LI. 88 COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ Then we went through the actual public type hearings that we had people oame in and talked to us. MR. DORRILL: So, I td need to be ready to go by June. CHAIRMAN V0~.PE~ What Itve done, Itve changed performance indicated then, to complete the reorganization by June of 1992. ~R. BRUTT: Our second goal is to revise the fees to reflect operating costs. Interestingly enough, after we had suhaitted this particular one to you, Pat Neil called me up and sa~d he would like to meet with me and bring a couple of the members of the productivity committee over to the office. We met approximate/y a week ago on Friday and went through our desires to get the cost in a close relationship to the actual functional responsibility and expenditures of the different section of the fund 113 activities. We have done some of these for the unif~e~ land development code. We have another up,ate that wetre working on right now between staff and the development steering committee. What we really need to do is get 89 right down to hourly cost of the individuals and how much it's costing to do our exact functions. We have tak.en our Q-Plus group, formed a team, that team is operational, itts one of about six teams that we have in this division that will operate and that one specifically is going to be looking at what it costs to do so each item that we are involved with. Those items run everything from a person coming to the counter and saying I desire information that might take 30 minutes. In the second handout I gave to you, we Just took some of sheets, the first one's a routing sheets, we worked with John MadaJewski~s people and in these particular other sheets we~ve identified activities that other staff tracking the number of hours, et cetera. We spent quite of a bit of time with Ea Flynn from the budget office looking at our overall operations, overs/1 costs and expenditures and one of the interesting things is available software on the shelf for doing the type of cost analysis as we desiring to do. As I mentioned, we met w~th Art Largent and Pat Neil of the productivity committee and Pat brought to our information the software package which he~s using and we're exploring 9O the use of these on-the-shelf software packages. Specifically, what we went to do is be able to tell the developer your project took this amount of time. If you want to see the printout sheets we have them. Already, I didntt give you this one particular sheet, wetve used it in other iljustrations, on our tracking schedule going through John MadaJewski's shop this one Just iljustrates when the project came in, how long it took to go through each one of the reviews, the number of hour and when it was produced. The last sheet that I gave you in this packet, if you look at that, this ties into both our costing factor and also the third item of our goal and that is having additional information and education into the develo~aent community. On that last sheet what we have here is a weekly site develo~nent plan review and identifies the project, the engineer, the suklnittal and additional information that is needed. We use this as a log to indicate where we need to strengthen our education with the developer's so that we can reduce number of resubmitals that are for any particular project. So, a lumping together the fee 91 schedule relationships in our second goal and the third one so that we can work with the developers. John MadaJewski is going out and meeting with the development com~unity at the present time, saying this is what we need, this is the format you should provide it in to do two things speed up the process for us to reduce your costs and obviously reduce your costs within your own organization. We are also doing this, Dave Pettrow has been in communications with Jackie Williams who I know you know from Im~okalee, as well as a meeting with developers and builde£s out there. We have been attending the monthly meetings of the architectural group the first Wednesday of every months. The first Tuesday of every month is what is known as a small builderts organization, that staff has been going to, to coach them through the various processes and speeding up their particular work~ reduce their costs and improve more efficiency. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Frank, how does this relate? When we adopted unified land development regulations I recall that Dave Pettrow, I think it was Dave, made a presentation about the fees that are incorporated into 92 the unified land development regulations and we talked about billable hours and keeping track of the actual time that was expended by members of the staff on a particular project. I thought we had addressed that fee structure. MR. BRUTT: This is a higher level of sophistication of that particular study that was done. In some cases we had the hours, in some cases we didn't. What we want to do now is set up with the budget office a, you can say, a universal system whereby where every activity that we are involved in we'll be able to build a data base through our computer system through MIS. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: How about, performance indicator here, what time frames are we talking about in terms of commencement and a completion of this type of a study? MR. BRUTT~ As I had in Item C, su~nit a revised fee resolution to the development services and BCC within 30 days of the study completion. The study completion will he dependent upon several factors available to staff that we have also the time that the budget staff can work on. I'm looking for something as fast as possible to feed this in by June. HR. DORRILL~ They have done some preliminary work 93 and this is one of the things that we're going to have to submit to the develo~nent service steering committee to see if theytre really interested in doing this. We may have -- have we already shared some of this information with them? MR. BRUTTt We shared it with them. We get two different factors within that group, one Just wants to have a set fee and the other one says, hey, I think that"s great, thatts the way we operate on an hourly basis. But, we have other members of that organizations that don't like the idea that we are going to actually come up with a figure and perhaps, I think they're afraid of as noted on this last page, we get some new firms coming in and we've got some old ones that take three, four, five times to give us the information that we want. They~re a little bit hesitant saying, yes, bill us on the average cost of that group of individuals working on that -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ said of the other. MR. DORRILL ~ concern is. What was that, a majority and one They can't have it both ways. There is. Let me tell you what my My concern is on the rework rate that if 94 we're Just going to bill people based on per hour of review time incurred, you're going to see some very quick complaints when the development community feel that we've become so fee driven that we're spending longer than perhaps than we need to or that we're nitpicking plans in the event we need to send them back to have them redrawn and resu~itted. I would responsibly be more inclined to say that the initial review would be based on a per hour incremental charge. You know, more complicated and larger projects need more review by engineers and planners but that if, and to the extent that plans need to be reworked, we might be better served by a lump sum because if not we'll be accused of the same thing that private civil engineers are in this town are intentionally padding their bills or their monthly invoice to the clients and I don't want us to be subject to that criticism. MR. BRUTT~ Prince William County's system that I was utilizing in another location, they set their, what we call our pre-application hearing and our final application hearing they figured out the dollar cost of 95 the review team in the room and when you have paid your fee, for the project, depending upon the number of acres or dwelling units, it included two or three meetings depending upon the complexity. If the information or lack of information that was provided to the county in that case required another meeting, those meetings were billed four and five hundred dollars each because of the fact that it took mXf number of persons in that room again and the indication that I got from those people when I talked to them was that it was amazing when the word went out you had two meetings as a part of the basic applications that third meeting was going to be five hundred dollars, this is about four years ago, the quality of the information improved a thousand percent. They were not using the staff to do their work and in any organization like ours we have a lot of people that would love to have the staff do their work for them. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ Frank, back to when we did the LDC, we agreed to a number of fees, the staff and the steering co~mittee all agreed on, I dontt know of what percentage it was of the total, and you implemented those fees and there were a number that were left open because there was disagreement on each side and you were going to get together, settle on a price and come back to us. Are you telling me now yout re going to redo all of the fees or Just the ones that were in conflict. MR. BRUTT~ Wet re going to, the ones that are in conflict, in fact, therets a second package coming to you tn the near future, but we have had this request of actually proving what does it take to do a certain-- COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ But, we did implement all of those increases, if there were increases, after we had agreed at the LDC meeting. MR. BRUTT~ Yes, you did adopt -- COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ So, therets a sizeable number of them that are up to speed -- MR. DORRILL~ Have already been increased. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ So, we're still reviewing the ones that were of a difference of opinion. MR. DORRILLt Those are the ones, commissioner, there are more hourly driven as opposed to a lump sum type of fee. What I said wet re not going to do any of them until they've been to the steering committee and 97 theytve come back from the steering committee with a recommendation either pro or con so that you can make a final decision. MR. BRUTT~ Therets a management side to the this study also was for us to go back, gives us the opportunity to go back and recap the number of hours it's taking certain persons to do certain types of activities, are we spending too much time on certain types of activities, are we asking for too much information, how can we streamline the process. Until we actually get good ~ata can't go back and make a determination. C~AIRMAN VOLPE~ Frank, there isn't any kind of a manual like they have for an automobile mechanic that says when I bring my car in there's so many hours that it would normally take to do this particular type of service. Is there anything like that you have for planners? MR. BRUTT~ Very community requires different things, differently intensities and different regulations SO ~ CHAIRMAN VOLPE ~ MR. DORRIL~. ~ So, there is no uniform type. There is a client's, if you will, 98 checklist because one of the concerns that we get ve~f early in develo~nent services was that this whole thing was running up the bills for private developers. So, there is a checklist of requirements for whatever youire doing, I don~t care whether it's a set of building plans, preliminary site develo~nent plan, final subdivision review, so that a client or an owner will know whatts expected of his engineer. That why when we get a partial submittal and we send it back saying this is incomplete, we want the client to know as well what is required of his civil engineer or architect in advance. But, therets no rule of thumb similar to automotive industry where, you know, a tune-up take you the better part of one hour and then you charge on a per hour basis. It's hard to tell because every community in their subdivision ranks or the building codes they*re requiring different things. MR. BRUTT~ The unfortunate thing is and I~ve seen it so many times, you call up the neighboring communities and say what do you charge for this, everybody gives you their information and then you go back to their ordinances and find out that what we require for 99 something they don"t require. So, this will give us a much better handle on the activity. COMMISSIONER SHANAHANt It's extremely important because as you know we were criticized last time for increasing these fees to cover loss of business, so to speak, not necessarily by the operating costs, we're reflecting the operating costs so every bit of effort and analysis and study that we put into it. An agreement that we can come together with is going is going to be extremely important to the entire community. CHAIRMAN VO~.PE~ I don~t know where that issue of the unified land development regulation is going to come up. Whether itt s going to come up under your d~vision, Frank, but there are already some areas of concern that have been identified to all of us and Itm sure to you as well. MR. BRUTT~ We are working on the glitch amendment with the county attorney's office. We have been asking the develo~xnent community that any time they find a difficulty, problem, confusion et cetera, to pass the information on to Dave Pettrow. MR. DORRILL~ There are two that I~m aware oft in 100 fact, Joe dealt with the one recently on exotics and Australian Pines. That was the first one that came up and the other has been mentioned to me through correspondences, whose responsibility is it to prepare the final development order and whose machine is it going .to be done on or whose standard board or plate language would be used and this type of thing. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ On develop order are you talking about the PUD document itself? MR. DORRILL ~ Yes. CHAIRM~N VOLPE~ So, thatts another issue, is that ri ght. MR. DORRILL~ Those are the two that Itm aware of and there may be some other ones that are coming up through the steering committee but those are the two. CHAIRMAN VOLPE= Those are the only two that I~ve heard of. MR. BRUTT~ We're looking at a February, some time in February, March, depending upon the volume and the speed and turnaround at the county attorneyts office. MR. DORRILLz Yeah. Keep us moving, Frank. MR. BRUTTt Basically, on our institute training 101 information, public relations program, as I mentioned, we' re working with engineers, we' re working with various consultants, we're holding sessions on the unified land develo~ent code. Last year, two years ago, we held a session over at Vo-Tech on our site development program. We're planning on doing the same thing, bring in Madajewski to discuss the site development plan. Ken to do zoning, et ceterav et cetera and turn it into a four or eight hour workshop for those that are interested in the community. So, the program is ongoing and he we are utilizing staff in their specialties. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Howls that being promoted? How are you promoting that amongst the users, the customers? MR. BRUTT= We have sent out memos to the development community and also John MadaJewski has been meeting with the larger firms and individuals, hers met with Wilson-Miller. He~s got other meetings set up. We call them, we say our staff is available if you woul~ like to identify those parts of the code or the ordinance that you want some sales help on, we'll send a staff person right out to your office. 102 CHAIRMAN VOLPE= There might be a better way of doing that, I~m not sure exactly how. But, in terms of part of the ongoing educational process and, you know, the small home builders who are, you know, maybe dontt have the same access to some of the larger engineering firms, how do you reach them? MR. BRUTT~ The small building contractors have formed their own organizations and as I mention, staff is meeting with them the first Tuesday of every month. We have had, I think three now, breakfast meetings with that group. There's about four of us to meet with the architects at their monthly meetings is the first Wednesday of the month and also we have printe~ building blocks as we call them, which are news releases that go over to the BIA for incorporation with their weekly newspaper which is about 26 or 27 hundred circulation in each issue. MR. DORRILL~ We have a newsletter that we put out for small contractors and the name of the newsletter is called Buildings Blocks and it mentions problem areas or new codes or ordnances and we share that. We have our own mailing list but in turn, building blocks becomes 103 part of the weekly-- the contractor's association is printing their ~wn newspaper that comes out, I guess, once a week and we have our own section of their newspaper called building blocks. dissemination of that information. MR. DORRILL ~ MR. LORENZ = So, we get very good Will that do it, Bill? For the record, Bill Lorenz, Environmental Services Administrator. I'd like to cover for the first topic, and I've got some information for your handout, which is the adoption of land develo~ent regulations to protect coastal and inland habitats. The Growth Management Plan of course has required us to development a number of land development regulations to protect our native habitat in the county. In addition, to look at the coastal zone as a very specific area in the county to develop a coastal zone plan and a series of coastal zone land development regulations. The first item I'd like to cover-is the coastal zone plan. Last February, in fact, staff had completed the coastal zone plan and developed the data and inventory, analysis in addition to a series of policy, 104 recommended policies and a series of recommendations to manage the natural resources in the coastal zone. This plan was taken then to the Environmental Advisory Council, the EAC, the old EAC, since we have not yet had anything like the present environmental type of advisory board, held a number workshops through August, received a endorsement from the EAC, went to the planning -- went to the county attorney's office, it should be for review, it should be on the planning commission's next meeting to review the recommendations and they're going to hold a workshop on the coastal zoning plan. From the planning commission we will then go to board of county commissioners. The county attorney's office has decided that we need to have the evening public hearings for the coastal zoning plan and from direction from the board on that particular plan we will then go into a series of ordinances or amendments to the Unified Land Develo~ent Code to incorporate the recommendations into ULDC. On page one of your fact sheet for the land development regulations to protect coastal and inland 105 habitats, we have developed these recommendations into basically four different groups. It's fairly, the plan itself is fairly lengthy so we'll Just summarized here the type of topics that wet ll be addressing through the coastal zone plan. Group number one, basically, it was developed by staff to identify and ensure that Collier County will be consistent with all other applicable government regulations. You can see that we have a number of recommendations that deal with surface and estuarine water quality, exotic vegetation removal, coastal construction, public access, water-dependent, water related uses, dredge and fill activity, some specific recommendations for the Pelican Bay conservation areas, that plan passed, and also recommendations with regard to species protection. The coastal zone plan you haventt seen yet but you will see within the next several months is fairly extensive. Group number two, recommendations that are in plan will adopt policies that provide guidance, if you will, 106 internal county sponsored programs and development activity. Wetve also identified a number of programs within the coastal zone plan that we feel are needed to ensure that we have sufficient data that wet re taking care of that certain operating results in the coasta/ zone plan. So, Group Three recommendations deal with that, w~th those particular topics. These particular programs that we would have to find budgetary authority or to go out for grants through different agencies to implement these series of our recommendations. Group four, which is going to be the regulatory areas is quite extensive on page two of your handout. You can see that the list there where wet re talking about adopting regulations which basically weWre blending the Unified Land Develo~ent Code within the coastal zone. These particular regulations, right now, the ULDC has reserved a section for coastal zone management, these particular areas that you will see in the plan is reco~endations subject to approval by the board we will then turn those plan recommendations around and make 107 amendments to the Unified Land Develo~nent Code. Some of the more specific areas that I think that in terms of, for your heads-up type of review is we will be looking at very specific percentages of certain habitats in a coastal zone so that a development will have to put in as a preserve. Right now, the recommendation is that if a develo~ent were to come in and have a xeric scrub habitat on site, the recommendation is we preserve 80 percent of that particular habitat. Thatts a very rare and unique habitat in Collier County and it supports certain rare species. MR. DORRILL~ Bill, can you Just show the co~mission typically where that exists? I know that a lot of it is still in Immokalee but when you start talking about having to require that 80 percent of that type of land be maintained in preserve status. HR. LORENZ = Well, a lot of this habitat here, the coastal zone area is on the last page on your handout where these specific percentages will occur. So, that 80 percent will not be applied, for instance, to the Immokalee habitats. But, of course your re talking about 108 the coastal zone area coming down basically, seawards to 41. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Bill, how is that being coordinated with the City of Naples? You've excluded the City of Naples from the coastal management boundary and presumably they're required to have a similar element or sub-element in their growth management plan or they're comprehensive plan, How are you coordinating with them, if you are at all? MR. LORENZ~ Well, we really aren't on this particular area with regard to the habitat reduction. We're simply looking at the habitats in Collier County, what's left in Collier County and have not done any kind of work within the City of Naples. The other habitats, the Dune and Strand Habitat or the Coastal Hammock Habitats typically are found within the coastal barrier from the beach, backwards through the Dune system and the recommendations here are 50 percent preservation to be able to allow for a lot to have a house, a single structure on it but then to retain as much of the vegetat£on as possible on that particular system. 109 That system functions in terms of environmental values for the public health and safety with regard to its barrier islands because that dune system, again, is holding the sand in place and also is an environmental function with regard to species protection and wildlife protection. These recommendations were taken to the SAC workshop and now we'll be going to the planning commission with them so weell prepare a workshop with the planning cc~_~ission and then another time to get a formal vote. The plan itself will not be -- the adoption of the plan itself will not implement the regulations. What we're trying to do is develop the plan through a public hearing process to get everybody familiar with what weere recommending and then whenever it's finally adopted in the plan, staff will then turn around and propose the land development regulations themselves. COMMISSIONER HASSS~ Are you looking directly at the exotics. We're having nothing but complaints about them. MR. LORENZ ~ We do have policies -- 110 COMMISSIONER HASSE~ I know you have policies. Are you going to be adhere to the policies you have right now? Itm not quite sure I even know what those policies are right now, 200 feet from somebody complaining and all that sort of thing is crazy. HR. LORENZ~ There is a little difference. We have our policies for exotic removal is simply the existing recommendation as a development were to come lnw the exotics would have to be removed. Therets a difference, maybe Prank could comment on this, as I see it, part of the 200 foot rule is basically is looking at more of the nuisance or the public safety aspect as opposed to the environmental. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Thatts part of the problem with the ordinance as I understand-it, that we didn't come at it from the perspective an environmental concern but rather from a safety and nuisance. Itm not sure what the status of that lawsuit is but apparently they've filed a lawsuit. COMMISSIONER S~ANA~AN~ They have three people have filed a lawsuit. Also, we are in process of reviewing the two hundred and taking it down to either a 100 or 50 111 and also maybe some incremental removal and some payment plan. The biggest problem has been the cost of removal rather than any of the other items. That's what really caused the greatest amount of concern. So, that ought to be coming to us reasonably soon for review. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Who's doing that? COMMISSIONER SHANANAN: Dick Clark's with the state attorney's office. MR. BRUTT: I think the latest draft is up in the attorney's office. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, I haven't seen it. MR. BRUTT: Dick Clark and the attorney are working on it. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Bill, my question about the coastal, county coastal zone management, wasn't only talking about the habitat but everything you've got here, is any of this being discussed with representatives of the City of Naples, not only the species and the vegetation but Just in terms of the coastal management? MR. LORENZ: No, it really isn't in terms of the coastal plan. We focus simply on the Collier County area. Now, some of the information that we've used for 112 purposes of putting the report together of course came from the city with regard to certain data such as sea turtles. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Yeah, but the city is still Collier County. MR. LORENZ ~ Yes, but right now, in terms of the areas that we would control such as preservation requirements or such as preservation requirements with regard to land use decisions. These areas will simply be within the countyts control not with -- we wouldntt be making those recommen~ations. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Well, like dredge and fill activities, inlet protection those kinds of issues. MR. LORENZ: Inlet protection we did discuss that with representatives of the city and it was decided that the inlet and Doctor's Pass is maintained by the Army Corp and therefore we do not make an recommendations with regard to the City of Naples is terms of their inlet management. So, in that sense we~ve taken some isolated cases and made those decisions but it would still be correct to say that we have not done any broad overall recommen~ations. CHAIRMAN VOLPE ~ Okay. MR. LORENZ~ That's kind of the focus on the coastal plan that was established as a priority within our growth management plan. The second area, considering your outline, is Habitat Protection Ordinance and what I would like to try to show you here is that we are working with EPTAB now and fashioning a, what wetre calling a Habitat Protection Ordinance, that will identify the amount of habitat, native habitat in the county, that will be established for preserve areas. The growth management plan currently has, to some degree, what is called the 25 percent rule which says that 25 percent of the sites shall be planted with native vegetation. The problem with that, from our perspective and from a n~ber of otherts perspective, is that the habitat would complete destroy native habitat and then planted with native vegetation to come up with that particular requirement which would mean native vegetation could be just along in the median strips. So, thatts whatts currently being accredited. Of course, that 114 doesn't provide any k~.nd of habitat value from the goals that was specified in the Growth Management Plan. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Bill, are these the coastal zone plan and habitat protection ordinance, is this where we're under some mandate to get them enacted within a certain period of time and Mr. Beardsley and others, the audubon? MR. LORENZ: Yes, that' s correct. CHAIRMAN VOLPE= So, where are our performance indicators? When are we going to get this done because we've been reminded time and again that we are out of compliance? MR. LORENZ ~ We are shooting for August of this year, of '92. CHAIRMAN vor. PE~ Well, as a part of our strategic plan, shouldn't we have those indicators? MR. LORENZ ~ Yes, what I try to do is instead of putting the indicators with regard to the format I Just covered the topics there in your outline. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ The idea though is that we're going to try to measure our performance to see whether we've got -- where it is that we had hoped to get and 11§ doing it throughout the course of the fiscal year so that we will be able to measure our performance. MR. LORENZ~ That's right, and we'll incorporate those three things timewise. CHAIRMAN VOLPS~ When? MR. LORENZ: My understanding is, I don't see Nell but Jennifer was talking about the action plans were to come after this particular session. MS. PIKE~ After to4ay's meeting, after your discussions and the changes that you might make to this plan then we're going come forward to you with an action plan and dates. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Okay. As a part of that discussion it seems to me that in this instance we need to be aware of the fact that we are under some direction from DCA and others that we've got certain things that supposed to have happened back in September of 1990. So, you are talking about August of 1992. I don't know if that's a satisfactory time frame. MR. LORENZ~ Well, it's a time frame that's simply a realistic time frame at this particular point. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Do we need to get an extension I I 116 from anyone? Is someone working on that? Have we talked with DCA about it? MR. LORENZ= Yeah, we~ve -- DCA has looked at it from my understanding from growth management simply as we continue to make progress for these particular deadlines. Thatts what they are looking for us to do so is to make progress. We do have a series of amendments, proposed amendments, to the growth management plan itself and we'll be discussing that with growth management to determine whether we actually want to do that. When we put those amendments in place, unfortunately, our target ~ates right now will occur, way before, after -- way before, six or nine months before the amendment even gets to DCA. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ What wetre talking about Neil is the fact that wetve been challenged by the Florida Audubon Society and that the performance indicator to me that after this meeting that therets going to be an action plan that we develop that will establish certain time frames within which these -- MR. DORRILLz In either of what I call a recovery 117 schedule or what we're calling an amended schedule if we feel that we're not going to be able to do so some of the things. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Well, we already have that recovery schedule someplace. MR. DORRILL~ It is, but it needs to incorporated as part of the -- for the rest of the cceunission, when I had talked to the chairman last week in my weekly meeting with him, he wants to see, when we're done going through this today, he wants to see a finished document printed with some actual ~ates. By this ~ate we would have done it this and this date. When the chairman has asked that as part of a regular board meeting at mid-year, which would be April 1st, that we give an update and be prepared to give an up~ate at the end of the year, did we meet our targeted goals and the indicators that we set for ourselves, if we didn't, then why. So, we'll report back to the board on April 1st and at the end of the year in terms our progress or lack of progress. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ We never got to that point last year as I recall. We went through the strategic planning 118 and we never really had the opportunity to measure our performance over the year so if we do it -- MR. DORRILL: So, we'll a printed document, the results of today's meeting and then we'll have a mid-year and a year ending report and measurement, a barometer of how we did, you know. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ I think it's absolutely essential · MR. DORRILL~ Again, that's part of keeping it manageable this year, only dealing with the most important things because I think we saw that we did overwhelm ourselves last year. MR. LORENZ: With regard to the Habitat Protection Ordinance, what's in green are those areas in the county that actually are plated as preserves. Everything in pink has already plated or existing subdivisions. When we look at in terms of the urban area, yellow is agriculture. We would be applying the Habitat Protection Ordinance basically everything that is Just in white. As you can see, there really is not a lot of green preserved areas that are dedicated as preserves in the 119 urban designated areas. When we start taking a look at and what EPTAB is looking at is a ~ivision in the next 20 to 30 years, without specifying very specific requirements to preserve certain habitat areas, this whole area here, your re going to be talking about very fragmented habitats. On page three of your handout, what we~re trying to establish is to work with the 25 percent nm~ber. That has not been recommendation yet from EPTAB. Every ne~ development that would come would be required to place 25 percent of that area in a preserve status. Twenty-five percent of the area would be identified through the criteria that the ordinance is recommending so that we get the highest and best environments/ values for the 9reserve areas. This would not affect the developer's density requirements because the density would be based upon the gross density. So, we would be recommending that the co~mission fix a certain percentage to be placed in preserve areas following the rules of the ordinance. EPTA~ is faced with a couple of issues as to whether it should be applied simply in the urban area, II II 120 county wide. EPTAB is also looking at certain threshold levels, for instance, single-family residence probably would be exempt, for what acreage would also be exempt from that preserve requirement. So, this would be targeting August of this year to bring the ordinance back the commission. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Dontt we already have that within our PUD~s. Don~t we have a requirement for preservation? MR. LORENZ= We have 60 percent for open space but that open space will be credited for a lot of ~fferent items. What this particular requirement would do is basically identify habitat that would be established to be put in preserved areas and that habitat would then be put in the preserve area that could be -- the development could be accredited for open space. Again, it's not going to be an additional percentage for open space and the developer could always look at in terms of getting the density because the density is calculated upon -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ You're talking about mitigation. You're talking about some sort of mitigation that by planting some of the native habitat that you could get some credit against it? MR. LORENZ= Right now, we are saying that if you have a site aha an undeveloped site, we will apply a certain criteria to that site to find out which habitats are the highest value on the site. Using the 25 percent as an example, you would then say that 25 percent of the site must be set aside as a preserve and it's this 25 percent based upon criteria and ranking that the ordinance would propose. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ What size properties are you talking about? MR. LORENZ ~ EPTAB has not yet come to any kind of consensus on the *threshold for the acreage. MR. DORRILL: Do you want to take us on to stormwater ? CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Just one question before we Get to that. With the environmentally sensitive lands acquisition and land management, where does that fit. suspect, I mean, we've had one presentation earlier in the year and we may very well have another presentation later on in the spring. 122 MR. DORRILL: Commissioner Goodnight was at a recent meeting, shets our representative on the Crew Trust and the environmentally sensitive lands if you want to tell us whatt s contemplated and where they're heading. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ It's my understanding that there was a meeting sometime and I was going to be invited to this meeting that was held at the conservancy, were you there at that meeting, at that meeting, Bill. MR. LORENZ came up-- HR. DORRILr. No, I wasn't I wasntt invited. It They dontt trust us. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ It is my understanding that they're going to come back some time this spring or early summer and make a presentation to this board and ask that this be placed on the ballot. MR. LORENZ~ EPTAB had discussed it two weeks ago and in their discussion there was a lot of undercurrent that this is not the time to come back to the board, even if it's the board's direction to be able to take a look at the September 1st ballot. Since that particular meeting my understanding however it sounds like there was a little bit more thrust 123 to come to the boards with looking at referendum for the September -- September, which we would have to come back to the hoard with a referendum question by July 1st. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN= That's my understanding also. CHAIRMAN VO~.PE~ But the question is, who's working on this? I mean, the program that was originally presented to the board, there was some question about it was deficient in certain areas and that was something that your office had been working on and I understand that there was more work that was required to be done. You've not mentioned that in this presentation. MR. LORENZ: Right, well that' s because EPTAB with that previously -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Yeah, but that's an advisory group, right? HR. LORENZ~ Yes. And, from my perspective, from the staff perspective, the priority is these particular regulations because that's a mandated DCA, priority to Get accomplished. That's not to say the lands acquisition program is not important because in my mind it is very important but for this particular year, from a staff 124 priority, I see this as a priority program. MR. DORRILL~ These are required LDR's of the growth management plan as opposed to, I guess, conceptually is giving or indicating the preservation of environmental lands is a policy or something that was desired, but we have committed to do certain things here that we need to finish. C~AIRMAN VOLPE~ I understand that. I guess I'm not getting my point across, the fact of the matter is that we're talking about an acquisition program and a management program which would be in the form of an ordinance for Collier County and that's what's going to be funded through the discussion that will take place or may take place. MR. LORENZ: You're adding about two or three different components together. One is, to take you back, by 1994 we have to have a 'comprehensive environmental protection program' that's going to consist of regulations, land development regulations and also acquisitions strategies. So, that's the time frame for that by an early growth management plan is 1994o These particular regulations what I'm saying are of priority 125 or have been mandated for August 1st of '89, t90, '91. So, in terms of the priorities, priorities to get regulations in place. The land acquisition program aspect that we were working on for the most part has been developed and a lot of production work, most, 90 percent of the production work is by EPTAB and that particular advisory board put together all the material that you saw, my assistance was basically packaging for executive summary, to create for the board and present the items. So, EPTAB is now looking at potentially this -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ So, are they telling you what you should be doing or are you telling them what they should be doing? MR. LORENZ: Well, basically I'm saying that if they want to get on the agenda with a particular strategy they' re making those recommendations to the board of county co~missioners. From the staff perspective, I'm working with EPTAB to say, this our ordinance, this is the priority and I'm trying to work them through the adopting these sets of ordinances by the end of this summer. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Your priorities may be different 126 than their priorities is what Itm hearing, though, Bill. MR. LORENZ ~ Possibly so, yes. CHAIRMAN V0LPE~ Thatts what Itm hearing. Their priority seem to be different. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Does that mean wet re going to be pre~ented with two different priorities? MR. LORENZ= Well, I think thatts true and I guess thatts working with an advisory board. Once you create the advisory board, they begin to start taking off into areas that is within their responsibility regar~Lng the ordinance in terms of advising the board, and fashioning and shaping the environmental program. MR. DORRILL~ That was the case with some of the LDC aspects. The Staff had developed a recommen~ation for the land develo~nent code and the planning com~ission wanted to see, in some instances, a reduced code or reduced criteria and we may find this time that the staff's ~raft or~Lnance is ~n d~sagreement with some of the things that you~ advisory board wants to do. ¥ou~11 see two recommen~ations. COMMISSIONER SHANANAN~ But, it's safe to say then that the mandated priorities are being pushed by staff 127 and worked in by staff and secondarily, if EPTAB and CREW are putting together an acquisition program for referendum in September they will be putting that together independently of staff and coming to us with MR. DORRILL~ Somewhat, although we-- MR. LORENZ~ Not exactly independently. MR. DORRIL5: We're represented there but in the since of what we're committed to do in our growth management plan, the higher priority for some of the programs that we talked about concerning habitat development and additional environmental land regulations CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I'll go back to where I started and that is that you haven't even mentioned it in your strategic planning. You haven't even mentioned that aspect of it. So, either we're going to work with them or we're not going to work with them. Either these are our priorities or they're not our priorities. Somehow it seems to me that that's an area that needs to be identified. You didn't go to the meeting. We've heard that may be coming to us this spring. Your priorities, those were falling behind. We've got a recovery schedule that. 128 we haventt kept. Their emphasis, EPTAB~s emphasis, seems to be for whatever reasons on the develo~ent of the acquisition of environmentally sensitive lands and the land management program. We talked about transfer of develo~x~ent rights, I dontt know where any of that is and yet this is our mission statement. These are our, the communityts, the ~ounty~s, goals, objectives and measurables so, itts either itWs there or itt s not. It's an advisory group that is presumably taking it's direction from the board for whom they work through our staff. So, somethingts missing here. MR. LORENZ~ IWm not sure if the terms of direction if the board was to say staff simply work on this, that's one option and don~t work with EPTAB at all with the land acquisition program. I guess where I~m, to some degree, looking for some of direction from the board. I feel that from, as I said, in the longer term the land acquisition program is very important and is a part of our total process. With regard to this particular fiscal year in terms of what I am having my staff spend their time on, it is the coastal barrier plan, the 129 regulations -- MR. DORRIL~.~ And not land acquisition. So, we're little schizophrenic here. I mean, the Staff is working on the things that we contracturally committed to do as part of the Growth Management Plan. There is, if you will, a competing interest in the acquiring Environmentally sensitive lands but we're not participating in that. I think that's fair to say. We attend meetings when we're invited. Ms. Goodnight represents us the CREW Trust but that is not a stated priority Goal for the staff's work program. Now, if we're wrong this would be a Great time for the board to develop consensus in the other area and tell us that. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Do they have any input to what you' re doing? MR. LORENZ: Oh, yes, yes. We're working and trying to -- my Goal is to try to make, develop, a consensus with EPTAB on what the exact shape of this Habitat Protection Ordinance and amendments we're to look at. So, when we bring that to you, my Goal, again, is to bring a consensus, one set of regulations. With regard to the land acquisition program, I am 130 working with EPTA~, myself, but my staff is, theytre deaicatea on putting these work products together. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ What happened was is the CR~W Trust came to the county and asked the county about putting a special referendum together for the March ballot and we told them at that time that they needed to EPTAB, and when EPTAB came back they had a recommendation of a bunch of land for preservation and thatts when we said, whoa, whoa. So, I mean, the board did direct staff to work with the CR~ Trust on this but when they came back there was a number of pieces of property that they were talking about instead of a CREW Trust. Now, this board has pledged that we were going to put in ten million dollars as our portion of the CR~f Trust and this was one of the subjects that I was going to discuss tomorrow as to how wet re going to come up with our ten million dollars because Caroline, Carol Browner, who I guess is the secretary of DER or whatever it is that shets the secretary of, has said that there will be no money sent to Collier County through any of the state agencies until Collier County pledges their part. And, 131 you know, there was seventy thousana dollars that was given to us by the Panther Preservation and that hasn't gone in there and when they brought that, when they presented that, I asked that that be part of the CRE~ Trust money. We~ve all talked about it but we haven't really done anything as to come up with our ten million dollars that this board said was going to be our part the CREW Trust or for this land that's going to be for a water shed area for our future water cons~ption. So, I think that's where Bill's coming from. And, what happened, as far as I~m concerned, what happened with him was that the board ~irected home to work with the CREW Trust and come back with some recommendations and when they came back with recommen~ations the board kind of put it on hold. But, as far as I~m concerned, I think the only thing that this board has cc~mitted themselves to is the CREW Trust. Now, if this preservation group wants to come back and place something on the ballot and along with that the CREW Trust can be part of it then I don~t have a problem with that. But, if it fails we still 132 committed ten million dollars for portion of the CREW Trust, COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ But, isn't it your understanding that CREW is going to come back with is a request for a referendum in relationship specifically to the CREW needs. understanding. Not preservation needs. That's my COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ At this time, the CREW, the CRE~ is not planning on doing anything until this board gives some direction as to what they're going to do because this board has pledged ten million dollars for our portion of that and how are we going to do that? (At this time, a break was had for the reporter to change paper.) COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT ~ million dollars, since I didn't have anything to do with it I had to fight for a position on the CREW Trust. It was Commission Saunders that did this and there was a resolution that was approved unanimously by this board that we would place ten million dollars to buy our portion of the CREW Trust if Lee County did their's and Lee County did their's. You're questioning the ten 133 COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ Wasntt it a/so tied to the one cent sales tax referendum. COMMISSIONER HASSE = Yes. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: The resolution was not but that was but thatts how we said we were going to, one of the funding sources. But, it was not, the resolution, was not tied to the one cent sales tax. MR. DORRILL~ I~ll need to check and look at that resolution. I do recall the resolution. I know that Lee County pledged a tenth of a mill or something like that, two-tenths of a mill. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ And, they've come forward with their ~art of it every year. CHAIRMAN VOr. PE~ Well, before we move on to the next subject, Commissioner Goodnight~s refreshed my recollection, the EPTAB and the CREW land trust came with a program for land acquisition and land management for the county, not Just for the CREW Trust properties. MR. LORENZ ~ That~ s correct. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ To your knowledge, what is EPTAB working on now? Is it that overall land acquisition program? 134 MR. LORENZ~ Yes. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ And, is it your understanding that that's what they're going to bring back to us in the spring? MR. LORENZ: Yes, and the reason is because EPTAB, in looking at the county's total comprehensive program, sees that that's what fits the overall intent of the growth management plan. It's Just not CREW lands it's all these lands that are called natural resource protection areas. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: And, you're saying we don't need that 'til 1994 under our growth management plan what we need to pursue are the ordinances that you've identified here in terms of the coastal -- MR. DORRILL: We're not changing our direction because we're going to be in far worse trouble if we don't finish the ordinances -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, we need EPTAB to help you implement these ordinances and if EPTAB is devoting a significant portion of their energies on something which is not your priority then we need to give some direction to EPTAB as to where the priorities should be.. 135 MR. DORRILL= Thatts correct. CHAIRMAN V0LPE: Okay. If wetve got com~eting priorities and they're doing what it is that they want to do, and being very well intentioned, someone needs to give them some direction as to where we are looking for that advisory group to assist us. MR. DORRILL: I don't think there's subversive here. I think the land preservation is a little sexier than worrying with adopting Xeric Scrub Protection Ordinances but wet re committed to seeing those things through. We had a concern the past two years with and the Audubon's concern has been the same, that we dontt have the staff resources and we haventt funded the necessary number of positions but we are plugging away and I think that youtll see the majority of these things go to public hearing this summer. CHAIRMAN VO~.PE= Then either wet re not going to include it at all or wetre Just -- and leave it at 1994 or wet re going to say, yes, it's a priority as far as the board's concerned but itt s a priority that falls in behind the priorities that youtve identified and so these 136 are n=ber one and two priorities and if there is a third priority, which is some time between 1992 and 1994, if it's something that they're pursuing, either they've got our cooperation or they don~t, so, I don~t knoww I guess what I~m asking, should we add it to your strategic plan or our strategic plan? MR. DORRILL~ It's your strategic plan and that's what I said, if you think the consensus of the board is that it needs to be added but it needs to be done with some relative priority here as to what we think is important. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Yeah, but there's a cost to all of this, that's the problem. MR. DORRILL~ Most definitely. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: All I want is a conscientious decision made either we~re going to add it to our strategic plan or we're not. And, if we're not going to add it, that's fine and wet ll pursue what we are under challenge to complete by a certain period of time, wet re talking about a strategic plan for this year. If it isn't one of our priorities this year because we~ve got -- we need to get our arms around certain of 137 these things because this is too much for us to try undertake and we Just leave it out. Either put it in or put it out. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I look at it like this, if we're supposedly have given a million dollar pledge, a ten million dollar pledge, I sure than heck don't want to go ahead with anymore than that. Not now, my God, I don't know where we're going to get that from. It's as Nobody wants to answer a question like simple as that. that. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ From ad valorem, a referendum for ad valorem monies to support that acquisition. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ That's still ad valorem. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ Oh, absolutely, but you know, the very fact that the preservation of land is working actively to come to us with a presentation in the spring, we certainly have to, I think we're obligated to at least until now in what we're doing. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Are they bringing money with them? COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ No, they' re not bring money 138 with them, theytre bringing certainly the request for referendum. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ I think wet re saying simply, they're working for us. If it's not here then they ought not to pursue that-- COMMISSIONER HASSE ~ Absolutely. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ -- and they should begin to d~rect all of their energies here. HR. LORENZ: Remember the board did give EPTAB the direction in November to continue working on the program with a possible election referendum for September. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ All I*m saying is if we*re committed to, by resolution, to support acquisition of lands then certainly we ought to be working on it concurrently with EPTAB and preservation whatever they call themselves. If not, I agree with Hike, as far as Itm concerned I~d like take it in October but I think we're too far along, we*re too c~itted at this point in time to do that If the board has to make that as conscious decision that we're not going to do it until we're mandated in 1994. That's not going to make CR~W happy or make 139 anybody else happy but we may well have to do that. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Do you see any other way out of it? COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN ~ No. MR. DORRILL: I think it's safe to say at the moment that they're not working against us but we're not working in concept with them because our sense of priority is different from some of the preservation groups. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Well~ I think maybe what I heard then, I'm supportive then of identifying the authorities that have been established by our staff and not picking up on the priorities that apparently exist for EPTAB. HR. DORRILL: That's not to say that someone else may not want to bring those to you. It may either he the CREW Trust or it could be the Rookery Bay, it could be the state preserve at Rookery Bay but they're going to be coming to you externally as opposed to be being developed as part of our programs. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I guess we need to look at that resolution. If we somehow, by resolution, committed to funding some portion of the acquisition of the CREW -- 140 ~R. DORRILL~ I made that note and specifically if there was an alternate source of funding outside of what was our sales tax referendum last yeart whether you can imply it directly or indirectly. That's the one note I made for myself. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ Noww when it was passed in February, January, or February because the first meeting was held seemed like in March and that was before we listened to full discussion of the sales tax. When we discussed the sales tax we said that that would be one way that we could fund it. One of the things that I thought would be a way funding it is because remember now, this is not necessary a preservation area. This is going to be a future water shed area and with the possibility of adding 25 or $0 cent to the water users of the county on a monthly basis to help fund for our part of that because this is going to be where the water is going to come from ~n the future and that was the whole reason why it was done in Lee and Collier County and it was set up. Right now, we're not even going to be able to get any money from South Florida Water Management because all 141 state funding has halted on it altogether. Even though a majority of the monies from South Florida Water Management comes from Collier County. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ I don't understand, we're not going to be. able to get any money for what? COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT= To help buy anymore land in Collier County until Collier County has pledged. Now, another alternative that I see that we can do is we can go to the Big Cypress Basin Board and tell them that since they're managing our water supply for Collier County, ask them to add it to their millage and pay for it like that and ask them if they would take responsibility of it since they are the ones that are having the permitting agencies for all of the water. I mean, I think that that would be a good way for us to continue to support the thing but still, you know, have it that Collier County's paying the share. But, until Collier County is committed there's not going to be any land bought in Collier County and that's what Browner said. As far as I'm concerned I'd rather see us do the CRE~ as one of our goals this year as to finding the way 142 to fund it instead of taking on the rest because as far as I'm concerned that's the only thing that we have said that this is something that's important to our water shed area and not a preservation area Just strictly water shed area. Do I have discuss this tomorrow now since I have it in my notes to discuss it tomorrow? COMMISSIONER HASSE~ I don't know if it's a good idea to discuss it tomorrow. CHAIRMAN VOLPR~ Well, I think if we have a consensus, the consensus is that as far as the land acquisition and land management program that we're comfortable with the 1994 date, that we've got other priorities which you've identified. The issue about the CREW land trust and what commitments were made and the context in which those co~mitments have been made, we need some more information from the manager in terms of what the commitment is. Mrs. Goodnight says there isn't going to be anymore land acquired for the CREW land trust within Collier County until apparently we come up with some sort of identifiable funding mechanism. Yet, I do recall Just 143 recently, it was reported back to us, that some lands were recently acquired within Collier County as a part of the CREW land trust within the last month. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ Well, that has been in the workings. Alico is the one that gave that to the board on the part of the county. It was part of the Lee/Collier deal that they put together and South Florida Water Management paid for that. Then, after that is when they went to that Carl Lenz and that's when Browner said that there will be no more money for the state including South Florida Water Management until Collier County had made their commitment. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Maybe I could suggest with the CREW lands, then, you seem to have some thought as to different funding mechanisms that we might consider or maybe that's something that should come during our budget hearing. I mean, we're going to start our budgeting process in March. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: I guess what I'd like to see is that we direct staff to come back with some alternatives and then give us the alternatives and then 144 we can proceed from there. And, then in the meantime, if this preservation group wants to come in and convinces the board to place it on the ballot then we can be sure that the CRE~ has its ten million dollars in there. Until then, I think that we need to move forward as far as what weT re obligated to do. COM~IISSIONER SHANAHAN~ Frankly, I think somebody ought to tell the preservation group that t94 is mandated and it's not certainly timely for them to think that theytre going to get a referendum and a tax ad valorem here at this particular time. It's impossible. They might as well forget. If anyone wants to come in and make a presentation relative to co~mitment to CREW, that's a different story. Nobody~s interested in preservation of ad valorem at this point in time when you've got a ~94 mandate. It's ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense at all. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ But, then to take the other half and debate you on that subject, of all of the ad valorem taxes that has passed on the ballot the one that has passed in every county has been land 145 preservation. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ I understand that. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT.' That has been in the last two years. Their argument to you is going to be, you know, give us the opportunity to show you because it is something -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ And, my argument to them is going to be unless they've got a plan. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: I'm not arguing that point at all but I'm just saying they're going to say that they believe that the will of the people of Florida is to pay for land preservation. So, I mean, I think that we've got to say that, you know, that we're willing to place it on the ballot but we're going to have to have a plan and everything as to what they're going to do and if that takes place then the ten million dollars for the CREW should-- COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN~ That's what makes a good debate, they telling me that it passed in another county doesn't mean one thing. Timing is everything, when it happened in other counties, et cetera. That's not now, that's not today and that's not next September. 146 They don't have a chance in my opinion, in this community to pass a land preservation acquisition program and that just happens to be my feeling. With the CRE~ Trust, possibly, possibly, two-tenths of a mill or something like that's a possibility but even that might not make it. So, that's Just my opinion and that's how I feel about it. On that happy note, I got to go. (At this time, Commissioner Shanahan leaves the board room and proceedings continued as follows~) MR. DORRILL~ I was Just going to ask you, it's noon, we're a little more than halfway in terms of the number of divisions. Bill's a little more long winded than some of the others. COMMISSIONER VOLPE~ He's had a lot of interruptions too, MR. DORRILL~ Not knowing how far y'all want to go you can either break for lunch and come back and then we can complete Bill. Bill wants to talk about storm water and utilities funding and solid waste and then the other four divisions that you have are emergency service, public services, utilities, transportation and the 147 Courts. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ They're basically shorter presentations or as you said about Bill, I wouldntt repeat it, in any case, cases perhaps we have a couple other divisions could move through in a hurry then they can go back to work. That's a horrible thought isn't it? CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I thought we'd try to be finished by 3:00 o'clock at the latest which is really what I'd hoped to able to do. If we take an hour for lunch, we won't be finished by then. Ideally, I'd like to try to finish today rather than trying to reschedule because I think that we can get through all this. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Let's go. I ate two donuts anyway · CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Mrs. Goodnight, is that all right with you. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Well, my only meal during the day is lunch. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Eat another donut, Ann. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, why don't we let Bill finish his presentations and take a half an hour and then we'll 148 come back, whatever time, half an hour from whatever time you finish, Bill. Just come back and we'll try to finish up this afternoon, by 3:00 o'clock at the latest. Mike, did you want to say something? MR. MCNEES: No. MR. DORRILL: With that, for those of your y'all can go ahead and hit it, go hack to your office, check your messages, grab something to eat. We should be back here ready to go by quarter of one. (At this time, the remaining division representatives left the board room to return at 12:45 p.m. MR. DORRILL: Go ahead, Bill, we'll talk about stormwater · MR. LORENZ.- Stormwater. I can make these brief because basically you're going to be hearing Just a little bit of headsup for you for the 20th of February we'll be bringing to you the consultant's final report for the rate study and also a resolution to allow us to have the window open so that we can have the stormwater utility charge for the next fiscal year. What I would like to present to you here, you 149 should have a page that says establish a stormwater utility rate schedule. I think we want to recognize that Collier County stormwater program has been relying upon stormwater utility and its planning for the past two or three years and we have, in the past six years, basically have millage rate your fund 110 has been reduced 46 percent. The expenditures for the bulk of the water management department has been increased from one million dollars to 1.2 million dollars over those six years. We basically have been living on borrowed money and the infusion of capitol in t84, ~85 that we have been using and drawing down for all these years and wetre really looking at the stormwater utility or some funding source to set our program up for the next year. If we dontt pass the stormwater utility then the board is going to have to decide as to whether you want to continue ad valorem and if you continue with ad valorem to recognize that we may be looking at some increase in millage rates from the past year to continue to fund the stormwater program with regard to the existing service levels. So, that was basically, I was kind of raising my hand here alerting the board that we are bumping up to this particular kind of decision. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Are we required under our Growth Management Plan to have a stormwater utility in place. MR. LORENZ: Yes, it's a requirement of the growth management plan. It's an amendable requirement. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ What's the City of Naples done? MR. DORRILL: They at one point were about equal to where we are. They've tabled any fur.ther discussion of stormwater for the year. They don't have any current stormwater projects that they're pursuing at all is my understanding. LORENZ: it. MR. DORRILL: Right, they've basically Just tabled That was part of the transition problems and having new administration but they have nothing that they intend to do this year at all. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Then, as a part of that discussion their concerns as I recall had to do kith the amount that they were paying to their consultants for this program, for the rate studies. II IL MR. LORENZ: There was some discussion, I know that it was brought up. CHAIRMAN VOLP~.~ We now have, like a phase one, phase two, phase three and four for our rate study. Are we through phase two yet? MR. LORENZ: We are basically ~rough phase two. On the 25th you will see phase two. On page four of the handout, on stormwater utility, what we have asked the consultants to do is to put together for the board's consideration are five different scenarios that he has based his rate recommen~ations on. Scenario one, basically being the existing level of service with some startup dollars for a stormwater utility. Scenario five, is the scenario that the master plan recommends that you adopted bac~in August of t90. The rates that, wet re still checking the final numbers but youtll be seeing the rates, the rates basically are in the range for the urban area of $2.47 up to three dollars and I think itt s tw~ty-six cents, in the urban area. We expect that if you go to the~next phase which is the finalization of the rates, we~ve tried to be somewhat 152 conservative in that range. We figure the number wtll be probably closer to two dollars and a*~alf which would be the worst case rate for the various benefit units that you have established for the purposes of these special assessment districts for stormwater utility. So, that's the range that you' re looking at with regard to stormwater utility rates. That next phase would be authorization for staff to come up with the final detail rates, coming up with a master account file, to then start to send the notices out to the public for purposes of public hearing and for next year's billing if you so desire to move forth with stormwater utility. MR. DORRILL: If not, then wha~ if anything, you'll want to do as an alternative, now? Ms. Goodnight might be able to help me here. There~s a northern Florida county that is being sued and challenged over a non-ad valorem county wide assessment. I want to say it' s Calhoun County or Washington or%'.Ocaloosa, something like that. There's some pending litigation about this type of funding mechanism that would,prevent a county commission from using a county-wide assessment type 153 method and that's essentially what a stormwater utility is. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ I think it's Madison. MR. DORRILL~ I'm not sure. But, there is some pending litigation and I think this is going to have a factor of what we've determined that we're going to do. Then, this gets back to my original comment concerning the MSTBU's was as an alternative, we may adopt or even in some instances require referendm~s that would create MSTBU's and what we'll say to the public is, you know, if you live in East Naples and you're part of that district six drainage basin problem, we're going to give you an opportunity to create a taxing district and then through a taxing district or a special assessment, we'll fix your drainage but otherwise we're not going to spend and we don't have county wide ad valorem dollars to spend to build the district six drainage system or in North Naples, the Cocahatchee system or way off the east trail, the Henderson Creek system. That's sort of my fall-back plan in the event that we don't move forward or the litigation blocks us from moving forward with the stormwater utility system. 154 CHAIRMAN VOLPE= That's the Lee County approached isn't it? That's the way that I think that Lee County has handled it. MR. DORRILL= They waffled around. Then, they went to a district system and the first one that came up was in Bonita Springs and then they had 300 people come to a public hearing and say, no, we don't want our taxes raised to fix our drainage. We want county wide taxes to pay. I don't know what the Lee County Commission is doing at this moment. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Right now, everything's tabled. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ It would seem better to me you know, if we see what Lee County does or has done and not do it. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Evidently, they were doing something like $7.00 or $8.00 a month for their drainage. MR. DORRILL~ Yeah, and that was the first district they had. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ This included agricultural land and everything and agricultural land was Just, you know, was not causing a problem. Then there were some large public hearings on the thing and there was so much opposition to the thing that they went to this district thing and now it looks like that the district thing has gotten so much opposition that -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Well, the fact that it's been tabled in the City of Naples and the fact that it's been tabled in our neighbors to the north would suggest to me that we've got a reasonably homogeneous group of people and I think we're going to hear the same kinds of conce ms. MR. DORRILL.. We' re headed the same way and what it's going to come down to is well, if it floods in Naples Park you shouldn't assume that the county general fund is going to come fix your draining problem in Naples Park. Or, if you live in what I call Old Lely and until we improve the Lely Canal you shouldn't assume that the county general fund is going to come and improve the Lely Canal. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT.. If you will recall when Naples Park had the drainage problems a couple of years ago, we had the stormwater thing on the table and we were 156 discussing it and they said that until the county came up with an overall plan that they didn't want to go in there and fund just that area until they saw what -- HR. DORRILL~ Well, we did have a referendum as I recall and the referendum to create -- no, we didn't have referendum, we had a public hearing and the people turned and said overwhelmingly we don't want a special taxing district in Naples Park. We want to wait and see what the plan is for a stormwater utility. CHAIRMAN VOLPE= In the meantime they had funded though the engineering portion of that. MR. DORRILL: But, that's all but we haven't done any permitting or any final design plans. We did a design report for what it would take -- MR. LORENZ ~ we' re going into final design now. That was the authorization of the board was put everything together and hold up until final instructions. HR. DORRILL.- Did we use district funds to do that? COMMISSIONER HASSE~ I think that was a special taxing district. fund. HR. LORENZ .' I think we used the water management 157 COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT= The ones who did, they paid for it through a special taxing ~hing for that fund. It was like 70 or 80 something thousand dollars. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Neil, I think that MSTU is in place for the drainage within Naples Park. MR. DORRILL.' It is. I couldn't remember whether we used a combination of their money or what. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: It was only for the engineering work and they came back and we said how much it was going to cost and that's when they all got outraged over it. MR. DORRILL = They freaked out. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ They said let's wait until this stormwater master plan is done and see what the plans are for that and then we'll decide whether or not we want to go forward with that. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: recollection as well. it a different way. Well, the point is that, that's m~ Obviously, Willoughby Acres took I think we're headed in the same direction as the City of Naples and Lee County and we've had discussions on that. We've got like $400,000.00 committed to these 158 consultants and I think we need to take a look at where we are with them. MR. DORRILL~ Bill says you'll have the opportunity to do that in two weeks? MR. LORENZ: The 25th. MR. DORRILL~ I think thatws where we're headed. Things are going to come to a screeching halt~ what wetre going to say is if you live in a part of the community that has a drainage problem, a demonstrated problem and youtre willing to pay to have it fixed, fine but the county cc~mission is not going to use its county wide funds because there arentt any. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ And, the other part of that is the last we discussed that at board level I remember we were talking a dollar a month. That's what they're paying in Sanibel or thatWs what they're paying in Cape Coral. MR. DORRILL: Tallahassee. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Whatever. Now, you're talking about $2.50 on average. People are still suffering rate shock from water and sewer and I~m not sure they're going to be able to separate this. This is an additional $28.00 or more a year. It's going to be a problem. 159 HR. DORRILL~ That's why we've been developing our fall-back plan. It's going to have to come to you on a petition type basis from these areas that have drainage problems. MR. LORENZ = The other aspect of it is next year's budget, just to look at how we're going to funding existing current level of service funding on ad valorem. MR. DORRILL~ Bill, why don't you touch on the solid waste thing again. That's something where you've got your report. MR. LORENZ: These items are really action plans that come as a result of these reports. This basically is to let you know that the Materials Recycling Reclamation Facility or MRF, will be coming to you on next Tuesday, not tomorrow, and it will be providing you information for how much it's going to cost to do a MRF versus curbside programs to meet our recycling requirements. Also some sense of recommendation of the type of MRF and I won't go into any detail but we'll be discussing terminology such as a Dirty MRF, Clean MRF and you will be seeing the cost analysis for these items. 160 I think the thing that you need to be aware of is that in any of this analysis you've got certain uncertainties, you've got technological uncertainties, you've forecasting market uncertainties in terms of revenues, also, the biggest problem right now is the legislative uncertainty. Basically, if the legislature modifies the formula for recycling we basically can meet our recycling requirement. MR. DORRILL: There is a bill to do that that's being contemplated on the house side. I don't know if there's a companion bill on the Senate. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: They have not done anything. It's not been discussed or anything. MR. DORRILL: There is a bill that's Just sitting in somebody's committee. There's no comparable bill and what we're saying is there's no imminent change that's expected concerning solid waste. COMMISSIONER BASSE: What is this fellow Corkran suing about? MR. DORRILL: That's a different issue. Concurrency issues as opposed to solid waste. What Bill is saying is that your current residential curbside 151 recycling program can not meet the state mandated recycling goals. A MRF type facility can but a MRF is a high risk alternative for which we don't have a better alternative at the moment. Nobody's going to pursue in their right mind, an incinerator. A landfill only type analysis will not again give you the result required recycling percentages. So, you're going to have to sort this stuff somewhere and try and find markets where none exist. MR. LORENZ: Right now, we've got ten years of -- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: How long do we have before we have to meet that mandate? MR. DORRILL: When's it due? MR. LORENZ: Oh, sorry, '94. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: It's my understanding that Polk County is in the process now of permitting a Dirty MRF operation. MR. LORENZ: I~m not sure what kind but I now it was some kind of MRF. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: And, it's supposed to come some time this spring. Why don't we see what happens with them before make some decision. We've got until '94 162 why don't we give it a little more time? MR. LORENZ.. The consultant has said we would not be to able to make the '94 deadline in terms of the lead time to put it in place. But of course, I wouldn't be so worried about that because once you're putting it in place I think that's-- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT.- That's how Polk County got the deferment with the DER or IkNR or something? CHAIRMAN VOLPE.. That's what we talked about doing and applying for an exemption, right? MR. LORENZ.. Now, I'm not sure about how they did that either because if you look in the little scheme that I showed you, both the alternatives of the Clean MRF or a Dirty MRF basically your land clearing and yard waste is not going to go through the MRF anyway. So, I know we had that discussion but -- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Yeah, and on the plane to Panama City I talked to their chair about the thing and I was told that that was the reason why that they got the extension was because they've got this MRF operation and it was fixing to come into operation in the spring and that's the reason, that's how they got the deferment on 163 the thing. So, we talked great length about the thing and, you know, but that was my question too, but he couldn't answer the question. MR. DORRILL~ Nobody knows yet. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ I wasn't going to pressure him on it. MR. LORENZ = As Neil pointed out, one of the items is that we are recommending that we continue with the landfill based strategy for solid waste disposal in Collier County. The map that's attached in your package is showing that we have been acquiring land to the north of the landfill according to the board's directions we received back in August of '90. The consultant's report has basically steered us in this direction because the consultant is looking at there's a lot of problems with that 300 acres to the west of the existing landfill site and the cost of acquiring land right now to the north of the landfill site is around $4500.00 an acre at most and the last offer we had received to the west of with us was around $2300.00 an 164 acre. so, it looks -- we've been moving in this direction. MR. DORRILL~ We've been buying land north of the existing landfill cheap at almost a fifth of the cost of what the land next door to us to the west is available to be purchased. So, we've been buying land where we could negotiate an inexpensive sale. You'll see that we're in the process of having contract talks with majority of the land owners but this is to buy long-term landfill capacity where we can. COMMISSIONER HASSE: What's in that Maloney property? MR. DORRILL: What's in it? COMMISSIONER HASSE: What's on it. MR. DORRILL: There's nothing on any of these. It's all undeveloped property. There are some houses further to the north there. That's the first house, that's at the tail end-- what's the name of that road there. It's the road that runs north and south. MR. LORENZ: I don't know. MR. DORRILL: We're not buying any land that's -- 165 COMMISSIONER HASSE: here cross-hatched. No, I mean, you've got this MR. LORENZ: The cross-hatching means that we've got verbal agreements from property owners that they're willing sell. The open area with the bow around it is the lands that Collier County owns. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Why are these white when you say it's county owned? MR. LORENZ: We have acquired that property, MR. DORRILL: We've already bought that. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Why are the names on them? MR. LORENZ: That's Just a part that's outlined in the bold. MR. DORRILL: This is the piece that we already owned. This is the piece that we're not having any success with at the moment. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Oh, I see. It's the same color. MR. DORRILL: Right, and I think that we've determined the one that says Saunders is no relation. COMMISSIONER HASSE: couldn't we? If it is we can dump on it, 166 MR. DORRILL: Not yet, we don't have a permit. MR. LORENZ ~ So, our master plan said that we were going to have by 1992 create a committee, another advisory committee investigate alternative technology, waste to energy technology incineration. The staff would recommend that we don't do that and if that's the consensus by the board then-- MR. DORRILL~ If for no other reason, then, Lee County's stands to loose, I'm talking about physically loose, 70 million dollars worth of cost and interest and penalties in terms of their resource recovery facilities. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: As a matter of fact, I think the it would probably be in Collier's best interest if we passed a resolution saying that there was going to be a moratorium on any type of burning plant in Collier County in the next five years so we don't have any bio waste or medical waste or tire burning or soil burning plant to come in here on some industrial property until they find out exactly what's going to happen with the environment. COMMISSIONER HASSE ~ MR. DORRILL = I thought we had that. No, we don't. If you read and follow 167 the news, there's a state wide moratorium at the moment while they look at air quality issues. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: The state wide moratorium does not include soil burning, hazardous soil burning plant or tire burning plant and both of them can come in on our industrial lands and open up. As far as I'm concerned, in the soil burning alone there's a chemist that tests the soil that from the time that that truck leaves the site until it gets to the site where it's burned there's no telling what's placed in it. There's nothing on the site of the plant where it's at actually burned. MR. DORRILL: There's one in Glades County where it's physically under construction. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: And, it's supposed to open up some time this week and Glades County Commissioners were not even informed that it was taking place because it zoned industrial property. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ We wouldn't have pass on that? MR. DORRILL: It's a permitted use. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: No, because it's an industrial zoned property and it's a permitted use. 168 COMMISSIONER HASSE~ Oh, boy. MR. DORRILL~ I think that Ann's making a point that maybe we ought to consider. The other thing that tickles me is that most of the community's not aware that there is a bio-medical waste incinerator that's downtown as part of the hospital. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: It's all in the newspaper this morning. I go by Johnson's Funeral Home there and I -- MR. DORRILL: It's been there for several years. MR. LORENZ: We've got our animal waste incinerator too. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: My problem is not burning Collier County's waste. My problem is burning waste from the southeast region of the United States and that's what's being discussed at the plant. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.. Why don't we pursue that. That's a good suggestion and maybe we can bring that up. MR. LORENZ= I've got it down. MR. DORRILL: Do y'all want to break for a little lunch? CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ While, I'm thinking, Jennifer, you had said something, you have a new committee organization 169 having to do with our franchises? MS. PIKE: Yes. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: Cable vision and with waste management, I guess, were there any others? MS. PIKE~ No. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.. Is that something we might consider as one of our goals with respect to -- we get an awful lot of discussion about these regulated industries, cablevision being one of them. I'm not sure where we intend to go with that, Jennifer, I mean, what -- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: The rate bill passed the Congress and I guess it's being placed on the President's desk to be signed. MR. DORRILL: I didn't know it had got through the Senate. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: I'm sorry, passed in the Senate. MR. DORRILL= Yeah, the Senate. It's not in the house and he's threatened to veto it is my understanding. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Just two seconds, Jennifer, that group or that committee, what is it that you are hoping to do with those two franchises? 170 MS. PIKE: We're going to be begin on the citizens committee. The subscribers are receiving the service that we want to receive or that they want, desire. The committee is just now in the organization stage and that's our first goal. From there we don't have any established goal. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Nell, that's obviously something that's of concern to any number people within our community. I'm talking about some standards for the cablevision industry. I don't know whether there's any thought about it. Is that too narrow of a focus do you think? MR. DORRILL: priority of the greater Naples Civic Association because Brad Estes came and talked to me about it and this is their stated number one goal is to try and develop their own analysis of what's wrong with cable television regulations, what we can and can't do and that's why we put together this sort of ad hoc committee. It hasn't been formalized by our board. It's not officially board recognized. That might be a first step if y'all were interest in doing that because right now Well, I know that it's the number one 171 they're just sort of ad hoc status trying to give my office some indication as to what the public's concerns are. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Well, we're talking about these franchises that operate within the county whenever we talk about the cable television there's cry out there and people are looking to their local government to provide some sort of -- MR. DORRILL: If y'all are interested maybe y'all ought to bring it up under board communications instead of an upcoming board meeting and we'll tell you what we've got contem-- we haven't really done anything with them yet. We'll tell you what we have contemplated. Jennifer's responsible for that in our office and we'll let you know what we do. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay. MR. DORRILL~ See you back here in about 20 minutes? CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Yes. (A break was had from 12530 until 1~00 p.m.,and proceedings continued as follows in Volume II.) 172 STATE OF FLORIDA ) COUNTY OF COLLIER ) I, Jacquelyn D. McMiller, Deputy Official Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at Large, do hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the date and place as stated in the caption hereto on Page 1 hereof; that the foregoing computer-assisted transcription, consisting of pages numbered 2 through 171, inclusive, is a true record of my Stenograph notes taken at said proceedings. Dated this 2nd day of March, 1992. ORIGINAL COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS STRATEGIC PLANNING WORKSHOP (VOLUME II, Pages 173 - 310) February 10, 1992 1:00 p.m. Building H, Room 216 Collier County Government Complex Naples, Florida 33962 Reported by: Christina J. Reynoldson, RPR Deputy Official Court Reporter Notary Public State of Florida at Large TELE: OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Carrothers Reporting Service, Inc. 20th Judicial Circuit - Collier County 3301 East Tamiami Trail Naples, Florida 33962 (813) 732-2700 FAX: (813) 774-6022 - APPEARANCES - BOARD MEMBERS: P. Anne Goodnight - County Commissioner Max A. Hasse - County Commissioner Michael J. Volpe - Chairman George Archibald - Transportation Administrator Mike Arnold - Utilities Administrator Peter Bolton - Emergency Services Paul Brigham - Court Administrator Nell Dorrill - County Manager Bill Griffin - Emergency Services Administrative Manager Mike McNees - Budget Director Tom Olliff - Public Services Administrator Jennifer Pike - Administrative Assistant to County Manager ALSO PRESENT: John Norris - INDEX - Emergency Services ....... · · · · · · 175 Public Services .... · · · · · · · · · · 214 Utilities .......... · · · · · · · 239 Transportation ......... · · · · · . 275 Judiciary ....... · · · · · · · · · . 294 General Discussion ............. 306 174 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 175 PROCEEDINGS MR. DORRILL ~ Emergency Services. two-week Air Force Reserve requirement. for that. Peter is here today and Peter is going to talk about the first two items and I thought that I would talk about the third. COMMISSIONER HASSE ~ Emergency Services? MR. DORRILL: Yes. We're at the Emergency Services Division. So with that, Peter, I'll let you take over. MR. BOLTON: First item we have is the I~okalee health care program and I'm going to let Bill Griffin deal with this. He has been with this program since its inception, and you do have a handout on that. MR. DORRILL~ This is our aspect of the program that includes Naples Community Hospital where we're operating the emergency room in conjunction with Naples Community Hospital. MR. GRIFFIN: For the record, I'm Bill Griffin. Okay. I think we've gotten to Dave is playing Army as part of his He's out of town OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 176 I'm the adkninistrative manager in the Emergency Services Division. As Peter said, I've been kind of keeping tabs on this whole program since it started, and the board gave us direction back in April of 1990 to go ahead and provide this service as a result of Collier Health Services no longer being able to provide these services due to their lack of federal funding. At that time in April the board made a commitment to fund this urgent emergency care walk-in clinic for up to two years. As of March of this current year, March of 1992, the county will have met that first two-year commitment. Currently, Naples Community Hospital has been working on this project to determine the long-term solution of the possibility of building a satellite hospital facility in the Immokalee area and we have been in contact with staff at Naples Community Hospital and the problem they're having currently is the availability of the necessary funds from the state and federal level that they're seeking. And they've indicated that the earliest funding may become available would be April of OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 177 1992 but more realistically would be more like November of 1992. And then just to bring the board up to current information on what this walk-in clinic has done since the board gave direction to fund it in April of 1990 and through December 31st of 1991, this urgent walk-in care clinic has seen and treated 7,630 patients. And the county has also paid $377,200 to the Collier Health Services for this patient treatment. Initially when the county began this program, we contracted with a local taxicab vendor to provide the shuttle transportation service of bringing patients who came into the walk-in care clinic in Immokalee and seen by a physician, that physician determined that this patient needed to go on into Naples Community Hospital for further treatment, evaluation or follow-up, was not a life or death situation. So, we got into contracting with the local taxicab vendor to shuttle these patients back and forth between Immokalee and Naples. At that time, the taxicab shuttle made 607 trips bringing people back and forth from Naples to Immokalee at a cost of $37,150. Then in May of 1991 we approached OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 178 the board and received a direction to provide this taxicab shuttle in-house, meaning that the county is now providing this taxicab shuttle service that we provided through the Emergency Medical Services Department by utilizing a vehicle from the county's motor pool fleet and then we used a part-time EMT from the EMS Department to be the driver. And since we started doing it in May, we've made 341 trips from Immokalee to Naples and Naples back to Immokalee at a cost of $14,600. Now, that cost to the county includes the part-time EMT salary and the operating expenses of operating the vehicle for fuel, repair and maintenance and insurance and things of that nature. Also as part of this program, two years ago when the board was approached by several groups from the Immokalee area, they pledged at that time that they could raise approximately $75,000 on an annual basis in private donations or contributions to help defray the cost of this program. To date, since this program has started or through December of 1991, we've only received $34,955 in OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 179 donations. So that is falling well below what was indicated to us approximately 18 months ago. So as I said earlier, the county's initial two-year commitment to fund this program will be ending here in approximately two months or March 31st of this current year. Now, if the board makes a decision to continue funding this program, we would need about another $150,000 from the general fund to operate from April through the end of the fiscal year, last six months of this current fiscal year. And if the county or this board decides they want to go another year down the road providing funding for this program, we will probably need another $300,000 in the 1992/'93 budget year to operate this program. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Of the patients that have been treated, do we have a profile of those patients by age group, by occupation and the like? MR. GRIFFIN.' I don't have that available to me right now. I could probably have one done if you'd like. COMMISSIONER HASSE= Somebody must have that; right? MR. DORRILL~ We have -- Bill has that information OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 180 off of the run sheets because there's a run sheet for every transport that we do and you could get a fairly good profile. You may not get it down to the employer level because typically we don't get that level of information. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I was looking not only at the transport service but as well the actual, the patients treated, the 7600 patients that were treated. Something about who those people are. MR. DORRILL: Yeah. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Is that -- MR. DORRILL .. MR. GRIFFIN~ It's obtainable. I can get the age. As far as occupation, I'm not sure I could get that or not. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Do we get any return from those patients? MR. GRIFFIN: Does the county? COMMISSIONER HASSE: Yeah. MR. GRIFFIN: Not that I'm aware of. The health clinic sets up some sort of a payment program based on their income ability to pay that they pay Collier Health Services back. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Here's where I'm coming from: Number one is we're talking about Children's Services Council and presumably that's a health care program for children, in part, so I'd like to see whether -- what percentage of the 7600 were children, however that is considered. And I would assume that if the Children's Services Council is successful that this would be one of the groups that would be funded through the Children's Services Council. MR. DORRILL: Partially. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I don't know if that's been discussed or not, but it seems to me that -- MR. DORRILL: That would be a fairly easy thing to do is determine what number of the patients are under the age of 16. CHAIRMAN VOLPE = Okay. COMMISSIONER HASSE ~ you're using, 16 and down? MR. DORRILL= I don't know. Tom, do you know? COMMISSIONER HASSE .- which is 18 and below? Is that the age scheduling Or do you consider a minor, · OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 182 MR. DORRILL: I don't know what eligibility requirements are in terms of Children's Services Council. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ I don't know either. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, they talk about children and I don't know either. That would be one issue. The other, I'm looking for the funding mechanism for the balance of the fiscal year. Immokal ee trials? MR. GRIFFIN: This weekend there's the Horse trials; that's correct. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Is there any possibility of funds being made available through that foundation for -- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: I don't know. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: -- the funding? COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: I know there's been a foundation set up called Immokalee Foundation and I know that there's supposed to be -- they're saying there's going to be about 60 something thousand dollars that's going to be donated back to the community but it's going to have to go through this foundation the same, I guess, as they go through -- MR. DORRILL: I'm assuming you'll make application for the funds -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 I I I II 311 II II I1"1~1 I I 183 COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Yeah. MR. DORRILL: -- and they'll have some review criteria and you've got to assume that this particular project would be near the top of the list, the fact that it's -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, in anticipation of not taking the money out of the general fund, you know, if this is a possible -- if there's something that we would need to do as a community to apply for some of those funds -- MR. DORRILL: Or either have the hospital apply for those funds but under this program. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Right. COMMISSIONER RASSE: Wasn't there a time this was going to peter out or terminate? MR. DORRILL: This program will terminate on April the 1st, Bill, or March lst? MR. GRIFFIN~ March 31st. MR. DORRILL.' April the 1st of the current year that we're in, unless there's some supplemental appropriation that's given to this program. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT.- Well, what we had said was OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESw FL 33962 184 we would give them a year and a half or almost two years I guess from the time that it started to come up with some different alternatives and I guess the hospital -- I have seen the plans and there has not been any indications to me in what you said, Bill, that the money was not there. No one has said anything to me that there was a holdup with money at all. I was under the assumption that this thing was going to proceed and that they were going to be opened up for service sometime in the late fall. Now that's -- that's Just what I had been led to believe, so-- MR. DORRILL= What's the name of the community steering committee in Immokalee? I forget what they're called. Bill Price is chairing it. The PIE group or -- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: PIE. MR. DORRILL= And the last word that I had was a number of them had been to meet, have lunch recently with the governor and there were no promises made but there's no money in the current state budget and until the budget is determined, the one that's currently being reviewed, that they won't know until July whether there's any money OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESv FL 33962 185 for that particular project, the Naples Community Hospital satellite facility in Immokalee. They won't know that until July. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: But haven' t you -- MR. DORRILL: At this moment it's not funded. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Haven't you had someone from your office, though, working with representatives of the Naples Community Hospital? MR. DORRILL: Yeah. They've been in touch with me. Then there's -- in addition to this PIE group, there is on the board of directors at the hospital Parke Wright who is Vice-Chairman of the Naples Community Hospital and is the one that's been the contact person for this project. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.' I heard that they were going to announce their plan quite soon. MR. DORRILL: We had heard at one point that it was imminent but I've heard that it's not in the state's current budget which would run through the end of June and that unless or until it's approved by the legislature -- I don't know whether there's a line item in there for this project or whether it's a discretionary fund, but I OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 186 was told they don't know, that the announcement might be imminent but at this point they don't know. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGBT: But this is for CHSI and that's part of the federal thing. That's where they get their money from. They don't get any state money. They get all their money out of Atlanta, which is federal and -- MR. DORRILL ~ Correct. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ -- it was my understanding that they already had the money in hand to proceed with their building. So I don't know. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, I guess that's -- this is a number one priority and we're talking about funding the medical community's commitment, so I think we need to -- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ And when they came to me and showed me the plan, well, I said to them, Well, I think what you need to do is, you know, let's put it on the agenda so that the commission can see this and let the time frame -- because otherwise on the 31st of March ~he money's ~oin9 to run ou~ a~d I'm ~ s~xe that the · 'boar~ 'is go'ing "to "be w'ill'ing to refund this because if we haven't done -- you know, if the community hasn't done OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 187 the job they said they were going to do. MR. DORRILL~ Well, we'll have to check and see because our two years runs through April 1st and if there is no announcement or there's no funding -- my understanding was, though, that it was coming from the state because it will not be part of CHSI. This will be a Naples Community Hospital owned and operated satellite facility that's in Immokalee. They're not going to do anything with CHSI. This is the one that's going to be built up on the north end of town and -- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Let me ask this question: What is C~SI doing? I heard they had money and that's what Dr. Polkowski was so upset about was the fact that they were moving to the north end of town and they were going to leave her there at the health department and that she was going to have to transport all of these people that she works with up there such as -- because they share records with and things like that and she was real concerned about that. You need to check into that, Mr. Olliff. MR. OLLIFF.- Yes, ma'am. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 188 that ? COMMISSIONER HASSE.- That's your Job now, Tom. MR. DORRILL: Bill, do you have anything else on MR. GRIFFIN: That's all I have, unless you have any more questions. MR. DORRILL: As I understand it, the current program, the Naples Community ~ospital has an emergency room physician that is there. What are the time frames, just so the board will know? They're not there on a 24-hour basis. COMMISSIONER HASSE .. No. MR. GRIFFINs Like 8~00 to 5500 Monday through Friday type operation, closed on weekends. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT= It's not 8:00. They get there at 10:00 and leave at 8:00, isn't it? MR. BOLTON: We can find out. MR. GRIFFIN: The reports they turn into me that I see shows opening the facility up at 8:00 a.m. and they close it down about 5:00. COMMISSIONER HASSE~ They may open the facility but they don't -- the doctor might not be there. COMMISSIONER GOODNIG~T: I thought the emergency OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 -j 189 room -- now this could change. I thought the emergency room was opened up at 8:00, at 10-.00 a.m. and closed at 8:00 p.m. and then they were open half a day on Saturday. MR. GRIFFINs Not to my knowledge. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Isn't there some program in the State of Florida that allows retired physicians to continue to provide certain services on a limited basis? MR. DORRILL.. There is and they do it in conjunction with the -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: MR. DORRILL: with the hospital. Hospital. -- facilities. No, it's not even But there is the facility downtown across from City Hall that was in the former Baptist church and I'm not that familiar with that program. It's a separate not-for-profit operation. I don't think they have anything to do with hospital. But it's retired physicians that operate that facility. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ I was looking for some -- I'm not sure. I heard the discussions about the hospital currently has a physician out in Immokalee that's there part of the day and -- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Either a physician or a OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESv FL 33962 190 physician's assistant and they all work under Dr. Tober; is that correct? MR. GRIFFIN~ a daily basis the physician, a nurse practitioner and like an aid. They pay for three people. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ So the county -- that's part of the program that the county's currently funding? That's correct. They are paid for on Correct. That and the transport. The shuttle transport, and the CHSI was supposed to They had to MR. GRIFFIN'. MR. DORRILL: MR. GRIFFIN'. medical staff. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: provide the equipment-- MR. DORRILL: And the facility. designate a space within their facility for the emergency room and they also provide the expendable supplies, the medications, you know, I don't know, the gloves and the sutures. MR. GRIFFIN: They provide the supplies Just like Nell said, but we pay them like $7.50 per patient that they see back. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, at last week's board OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 191 meeting, or maybe it's tomorrow, we're talking about putting a roof on the building that CHSI is in. MR. DORRILL: Right. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: We're talking about putting a new roof on that facility. Commissioner Goodnight's saying that the hospital's moving to the north and -- I mean, does that relate to any of this discussion? MR. DORRILL.- Sure does because I wasn't aware that (lqSI was moving with Naples Community Hospital. But if they are, then we need to reprogram our needs for that building or consider selling it as we are, you know, some of the other spacial needs. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: You need to talk to them because the last I talked to Cheryl Thomas, Cheryl told me that Dr. Polkowski was extremely upset with the fact all these years they've been sharing records with the WIT Program and with the health services and now with the health services moving they're not going to be able to share the health folders and everything and she doesn't know how they're going to handle this. MR. DORRILL .. Okay. COMMISSIONER HASSE= Maybe you ought to check with OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS~ COLLIER COUNTX, NAPLES~ FL 33962 192 Dr. Polkowski. She woula know. MR. DORRILL~ We can ao that. There's going to have to be analysis of this before the end of March. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Whose responsibility is this? Who's the point ~erson? Is it EMS? We~ve been providing some funding mechanisms, but who~s going to coordinate or who is coordinating what's happening with the hospital, with CHSI? MR. DORRILL~ They've been coordinating with our office. CHAIRMAN VOLPE= With you? MR. DORRILL: And I was invited and I attended a meeting in Immokalee and then I attended the meeting downtown at the hospital and I was shown some of the conceptual plans and drawings for the facility, but I was told it was based on, dependent on some state funding as well and then a bunch of them went off to Tallahassee to have lunch with the governor. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Where's Frank? I was in a meeting just last month with our Planning Services people trying to get this thing on the fast track, the building and everything; that there was some problems with OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESt FL 33962 193 easements and what they were going to plot and everything because it's part of that PUD. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.' And that was when Tom Brown came before the board and they're looking for the waiver of impact fees and we were talking about Immokalee Water & Sewer didn't have any impact fees and as a part of that discussion, you know, relating to what it was that the hospital was going to do out in the Immokalee area. So I guess-- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: But John Madajewski, whatever his name is, said that -- and I told him that the first available was the deadline and they're trying to fast track this thing through Community Services so that they can have it and have it on line or at least have it out of Community Development, so you need to check on this because -- MR. DORRILL: We're going to have to check with Mr. Cronin's office because I don't have any of that information. The last time I went and met with Mr. Cronin was back in October and then one subsequent conversation to that I was told that they.were withholding their announcement because they didn't have a OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTYv NAPLESv FL 33962 194 firm commitment. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Isn't this part of the areas where what we committed to do was provide the leadership? We committed to provide the leadership. COMMISSIONER HASSE: For so long. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, apart from the issue of funding, we said, Yeah, we'll fund it for a period of time but in the meantime what we can do as a board is we can provide the leadership to try to address this area and it sounds like -- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: That's what we've done and now -- you know, your information has got to be out of date because, I mean, why would they be pushing this thing through Community Development if they don't even have the funding in place? MR. DORRILL: We need to find out. And my other note is whether or not the federal health clinic CHSI is going to be part of that and are they physically contemplating moving. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Is that another one of the goals that we have under our executive in terms of that, one of the subheadings in terms of -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 195 MR. DORRILL~ That one being -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: -- addressing the medical needs of the Immokalee community and providing that leadership? MR. DORRILL: Probably indirectly. I don't know if that was reduced to writing or actually assigned to anyone in my office other than the extent that I met with this PIE committee in Immokalee and also Mr. Cronin had asked me to attend a meeting at the hospital. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: It's just that it's an important issue and we' re going to hear a lot of it, I'm sure, as we get closer to March 31st. So it seems to me that maybe somehow we have to keep that issue out in front of us, Neil, and maybe it should be one of those if not one of the primary goals that needs to come in under that and we are responsible for providing certain leadership. MR. DORRILL: Okay. That's fine. MR. BOLTON: Second item is the Emergency Services Center. I hadn't planned to do anything on this because this item was scheduled before the board some three weeks ago and you indicated then that you wished to come back to a workshop. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERSt COLLIER COUNTYt NAPLESt FL 33962 196 We can by all means talk about it, but I know Jay's been in touch with Capital Projects and I hope a date will be forthcoming when this all will be presented to you. MR. DORRILL: You had asked us to prepare a number of things. You wanted to see an analysis of the current lease agreements because as you'll recall the Emergency Services Division, to my knowledge, does not own any of its current facilities. We rent or lease all of our current facilities. And you wanted to see an analysis of the rent and the current spaces that we're renting and what was projected including the emergency operation center located in the bottom of Building F that would be housed in this proposed new facility. And the proposal being done in conjunction with the airport. And I think Jay has something contemplated in March sometime based on his most recent conversation with me and he has worked with Tom Conrecode to see what the space program needs would be for up to five years and they are putting together that workshop. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Have you looked at the old OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESt FL 33962 197 health building? MR. DORRILL: We haven't. I don't know in terms of the space required-- if you look at the space currently for EMS and medical examiner's office and the fact we only have a short term contract at the airport for the helicopter hangar. I'm not sure that would be adequate for all of those needs, but it could factor into one of the options even though it would only be a partial solution. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.. What's planned for the remainder of the third floor here? MR. DORRILL: None is currently designated and that's one I've talked specifically to Jay about. That would not resolve the medical examiner's needs. We would probably look for some other long-term program with that. At the moment they' re in some rented offices that are downtown that are owned by the hospital but scheduled to be demolished as part of the hospital expansion plan. And there again, we don't have a better or more permanent medical examiner's facility or more beyond that short-term contract that we have with the hospital. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.- Where is that facility now, do you OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESw FL 33962 198 know, Nell? MR. DORRILL= Across the street from the Sutton House Pizza Restaurant. But other than that, -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: home there? MR. GRIFFIN: Isn't that the old funeral It's an old -- C~AIRMAN VOLPE: Pittman's old funeral home. MR. DORRILL: It's owned by the hospital now and scheduled to be torn down as part of their renovations. COMMISSIONER RASSE: Don't they feel any obligations to work with us on something like this? MR. DORRILL: Well, they have, but the hospital has a real aversion by having the medical examiner's office and all that entails being physically inside the hospital. And typically you don't find morgues or medical examiner facilities that are built as part of a hospital complex. COMMISSIONER HASSE.. What better place? MR. DORRILL: They're not in the business of -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Killing people? MR. DORRILL: Or doing that type of work and they just -- the aspects of all that that entails, they have OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 199 told us before they don~t want that part of the hospital comp1 e x. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Well, is that an expensive proposition to have a medical examiner's facility? COMMISSIONER HASSE: I would think so. I mean, youtre not only talking medical examiner, you're talking all these other departments here. MR. DORRILL: In Lee County they built a separate medical examiner's facility as part of that and they obviously have special plumbing requirements and ventilation requirements and they have big, you know, chillers in rooms and special X-ray equipment and yeah, itt s very expensive. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, you can put them over in this health building. You've got chillers next door to them. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Is that an issue then that wet re going to have to address as a community in the next year? MR. DORRILL: Well, it has been one of these -- it is a CIE eligible project as it relates to governmental facility requirements. It's in the CIE. Itt s not a concurrency driven CIE requirement, but it is one of OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 2OO those CIE eligible projects and this, you know, that in combination with the fact that this division doesn't own any of its current facilities is the reason it's Deen driving the need for this project. What you all wanted to see was this functional analysis and space analysis as to what was contemplated and understand a little more about whether it needs or should have to be on the airport property before we, you know, you authorized any architectural contracts, and that's where we're at at the moment. COMMISSIONER HASSE-- Don't we have property available to us in the north end? MR. DORRILL: They have some. They've been talking about to be in conjunction with the landfill reclamation project that they have planned and they wanted us to do some landfill mining to reclaim airport property that was previously the county's first landfill. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.. I guess what I'm -- in my own mind I'm separating the EMS issue from the medical examiner's office. And you said--you know, Co_m_~issioner Hasse asked about the old health building and I asked about the thirO floor here. You said those are alternatives for OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 201 the EMS. The medical examiner, is that something that would be a proper subject of an interlocal agreement between Lee County and Collier County in terms of facility? MR. DORRILL: I don't think so because the way the state statutes are written, there are district medical examiners throughout the state, and we're required-- and there is -- Collier County is its own district. And I don't know enough about the statutes to know -- county commissions are obligated to provide the space and operating requirements for the district medical examiner. Now, the district medical examiner is an employee, an office of the state and part of the department of law enforcement, but we have the sole obligation to provide the operating and facility costs for -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I don't mind the administrative aspect of that, but if you need a laboratory or if you need some high tech equipment to do what you were saying in terms of X-ray machines and plumbing and chillers and all that, I would think that there might be an opportunity to explore that, you know, have our medical examiner use the facilities of Lee County. I mean, if OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 202 they've spent a lot of money for it and they're -- MR. DORRILL: That's one of the things we'll have to check on. COMMISSIONER HASSE: The only problem is I think Lee County is in pretty much of a mess as far as I can figure out, if they want to get involved in this kind of a thing. MR. DORRILL: And I don't know whether they could even entertain those. I don't know-- COMMISSIONER HASSE.' I don't know, either. MR. DORRILL: -- physically the volume of work, the number of autopsies on an annual basis. I don't know whether they can even accommodate those types of things. But we have come a long way from the days when Dr. Schmidt who was the former medical examiner and actually performed an autopsy in his garage down in Port Royal before we had a -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's a good idea. MR. DORRILL: -- before we had even the facilities that we do now, which frankly are very poor. COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's a thought. MR. DORRILL: The last one we had under Emergency OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESw FL 33962 203 Services was to determine the direction from the commission's perspective on completing or finalizing the fire consolidation feasibility and what, if anything, is going to be done. The commission had engaged the services of the International Association of Fire Chiefs last year. The citizen's advisory committee is scheduled to take up this matter in one final series of meetings. There are two bills that are currently filed with the legislature that would force or require consolidation. So this is a matter that the legislature has taken into its hands because of a perceived problem throughout the state. I'm told that one of the bills has the possibility of getting to the floor of the legislature for action, the other one does not. The one bill that is most likely to reach the floor would require some type of interlocal agreement to consolidate independent districts or put the burden to do that on the general purpose government in this case, which would be the county commission. Obviously the independent fire districts and chiefs are in a state of apoplectic fits over this bill. And if OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 339~2 I ! 204 we continue to monitor it week to week -- but at this point, this is a project that needs to be wound down and some final decision made as to what, if any, position the county commission wants to take. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT.' They're so upset over the thing that they've accused Collier County as sponsoring the bill. COMMISSIONER ~ASSE: That's right. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, I was going to bring that up last Tuesday and I forgot to do it and I was thinking of bringing it up tomorrow because our county manager has written a letter, a copy of which I've not seen, supportive of the bill. And so it's one thing, you know, for the manager to do that, which is all fine, well and good, but the question is does this board -- do we have a position as it relates to that bill which is presently pending in the state legislature and I think either we do or we don't. COMMISSIONER ~ASSE: address this? CHAIRMAN VOLPE: To what extent does the bill Well, I've not seen the bill. I've had some conversations with some people who are more OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESt FL 33962 205 familiar with it and essentially as I understand it it would consolidate all of the independent fire districts within Collier County. It would essentially -- COMMISSIONER RASSE: In other words, the people don't have anything to say about it? CHAIRMAN VOLPE: legislative fiat. COMMISSIONER RASSE: Apparently this would be done by Fiasco. I wouldn't want to be facing those people when you do that. MR. DORRILL'. Well, and there's been a concern expressed by the number of counties that if you go back and look at this original sheet there's a lot of counties in this state that are already at or near their ten mill cap and they can't afford under the county commissioners' side of the slate to incur the additional ad valorem millage to run independent fire districts. So there is either going to have to be an exemption for small counties that are at or near the ten mill cap to exempt them from that if they' re -- or they inherit fire provision or there's going to have to be a local option for small counties, and "small" is defined by the state to be under 50,000 population, to opt out of the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 206 program. The sponsor of the bill is a legislator. His name is C. Fred Jones, and I think he's from Seminole County. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGRT: Polk County. MR. DORRILL: Oh, no. Orange County or Middle of the state somewhere. What I'm told the rationale for the bill is is the fact that there are over a thousand independent districts in the State of Florida and C. Fred chairs the Community Affairs Committee of the House of Representatives and he's sick and tired of having to review all of the bills that determine local initiatives for independent districts and he wrote the bill and he sponsored the bill and that's what I'm told the rationale for it is from the Florida Association of Counties. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: What I'm suggesting, though, is that either we are or we are not going to take a position. Commissioner Goodnight said someone is suggesting that we've sponsored the bill. CHAIRMAN GOODNIGHT.' Yes. I've been told in Immokalee that our fire chief said the county commission -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 207 COMMISSIONER HASSE.' That's not true, though. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: I know that, but they said-- our fire chief says a lot of things that's not true. But the other thing that took place was during the meeting in Tallahassee there was great discussion on Collier County and its county manager and how he was trying to take over the fire control districts and -- which just absolutely appals me because Neil or our county manager hasn't done anything that this board hasn't directed him to do and the reason we even started fire consolidation to start off with was because the Greater Naples Area Civic Association came to us asking us to investigate it. And that's the reason why that we're at where we are and I mean, it's not been instigated by the, by the manager or the commissioners. But if they want to mess with me, I'll mess with them. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.' Don' t you think, though, that under the circumstances that we then ought to if there is this bill presently pending in the legislature that we periodically do pass resolutions either supporting 33962 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 208 certain bills or not supporting certain bills? Do we support this bill or don't we? COMMISSIONER HASSE: It has to come before us in a vote before we can do that. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I guess what I'm suggesting is maybe we can get a report from-- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: That's what I was telling you, Mike, is if it hadn't been for the fact that the local fire chief ran up to Tallahassee complaining about Collier County, I'd probably say no, we shouldn't support the bill. But now that they've done that, I think we ought to support it. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Why, because you're mad at them? COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: I'm not mad. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I'd like to see a copy of the letter, Neil, so we can -- MR. DORRILL: I' d be happy to and I can report that tomorrow. We received a request on like a Friday afternoon from the Florida Association of Counties asking us if we were aware of or could support this type of bill and they needed a response faxed by and for a Monday OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 209 morning committee meeting for Mr. Jones's committee and so we wrote the letter and I signed it and indicated that, you know, the board hasn't taken a position, there was no resolution and it went out under my signature and was there in time for the Monday meeting, but that's what caused their apoplectic -- C~AIRMAN VOLPE~ But since then I've gotten a many number of phone calls from a many number of people who have said have you or have you not taken a position and so on, so I'm prepared to take a position one way or the other as a board. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, go ahead and take your position. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, I think we need to be brought up to date and we need to have some information about the bill, what it proposes, how it will be done. When the manager sends off a letter on our stationery or on Collier County stationery, in my view he can say whatever it is you want to say, that somehow has got to be reflective of what we' re doing because as Commissioner Goodnight just said, he doesn't do anything other than what we tell him to do, so -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 210 that. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, we didn't tell him to do Did you? CHAIRMAN VOLPE: No, sir, I did not. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Okay. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I'm just asking we do that now and we kind of back that up. COMMISSIONER HASSE: No, I'm not going to. It's wrong. I don't think we should consolidate completely. There is a way of working this out so we all cooperate together, but you have three independent districts here; that's north, east and Golden Gate that are separate independent districts that are very strong and very self-centered in what they're doing there and if you're going to blow them out of the water just because you want to consolidate all the others, let's work something out where we can cooperate in all ways for buying and this sort of thing, you know, the gas and all that sort of thing. MR. McNEES: is that those districts become districts of the county commission. It doesn't say they all consolidate. I think that's one of the things he's trying to I think the bill -- what the bill says OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 211 figure out, what would happen in the county commission's discretion for consolidation and could they leave them separate and operate separate districts, so that's -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: But the county would operate them then. MR. DORRILL.' That's what the current bill -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, that's no good. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, this is one of the three goals that's been identified in Emergency Services and it seems to me very topical now, so if not tomorrow, perhaps at a meeting which is going to be held and maybe too late then we ought to at least take a position. MR. DORRILL: We can inquire today as to what the current status of the bill is. If there's some reason to have an added discussion item for tomorrow, we will. If we can wait an extra week, then we can prepare an executive summary and have included as part of the agenda package a copy of the bill and some of the information that came from the state association. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, it seems to me that we are providing EMS through a centralized division throughout the county and we have got arrangements now with Golden OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 212 Gate, East Naples, you know, so it makes some sense that we need to try to coordinate those activities. And what we're hearing, and I'm not sure whether there's any substance to it, but the discussions that have been taking place about each one of the independent fire districts now giving some consideration to providing their own ambulance service? COMMISSIONER HASSE~ That's coming through this. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: They're already doing that. They're now the first responders to the scene. MR. DORRILL: service. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: But they're not providing ambulance Every fire district in Collier County now has one of those little ambulances that runs around with these little EMT's in there that runs in there and they didn't even have a neck brace to put on Jackie when Jackie fell out of the tree. COMMISSIONER HASSE: No, but that's not the same. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: That's not the same thing? COMMISSIONER HASSE: No. Absolutely not. a full medical service our ambulance provides. you could put it on the back of a station wagon. This is Otherwise OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 213 CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ But it sounds to me as though there may be some duplication of effort here and I assume it's different from the rates of -- COMMISSIONER ~ASSE: It probably is. MR. DORRILL.. There are no rates. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: They don't have no rates at all. All they're doing is publishing in the newspaper about how fast their response time is. MR. DORRILL: They' re precluded from transporting or even loading someone into their own units, and that's why I've reminded the newspaper that it takes a Certificate of Public Need and Necessity from the county commission in order for somebody to do this. We'll be happy to talk about it either tomorrow or a week from tomorrow. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I think a week from tomorrow is the better -- we have a heavy agenda for tomorrow in every sense of the word and I'd like to give some time to that. C~AIRMAN VOLPE .. Fine. COMMISSIONER RASSE: Enough to notify the fire department. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 214 MR. DORRILL: Public Services? COMMISSIONER HASSE service. MR. DORRILL .- Thank you. There isn't any public There's one, two, three -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Oh, I didn't see Tom there. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT.. Bill, while he's putting that up, I just want you to know that even our ambulance didn't have a large neck brace to put on Jackie. MR. GRIFFIN.' When was this? COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT.- When he fell out of the tree Tuesday or Wednesday, two weeks ago. They had smalls and mediums but they didn't have no large neck braces to put on him. COMMISSIONER HASSE: at that age. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ makeshift thing. places. MR. McNEES: problem. He shouldn't be climbing trees What' d they do? They made some kind of a I mean, he broke his neck in two He says that's the budget office's OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 215 COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Well, you'd better be sure that Immokalee has a large neck brace. COMMISSIONER HASSE.. How's he doing? COMMISSIONER GOODNIG~T: ~e's doing a lot better. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.. Okay, Tom. MR. OLLIFF: You'll have to excuse me a little bit. This is my fourth week here and I'm still trying to make sure I can spell my secretary's name let alone give you a complete planning update of the Public Services Division, but -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: No excuse. MR. OLLIFF: -- the three items that we've listed are a little more project oriented than they are from a planning overall conceptual standpoint and the first is -- what I tried to do is put these together the week before I actually came over here and was trying to outline some of what I knew were front burner issues of this division that I know at least the board has spent some time on in recent history and were first on probably your list of important things for me to accomplish when I came here, this being sort of a strategic plan for the remainder of this fiscal year. These are the project OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 216 related things I think you would have us focus on. The first was the Lee/Collier Barefoot Beach project. And while it's kind of difficult to see from where you're at, this is the conceptual plan for what is the joint Lee/Collier County beach park. This is Bonita Beach Road. This is our existing parking lot on the Collier County side. This is the Lee/Collier County line, and then this is all of the Lee County portion of that park. There have been two outstanding issues that have kept this project from moving along and the first was a sewer line issue which related to our ability to be able to provide sewer service to actually the Lee County side, and there is a restroom facility that was tried to be located here so it would be centrally located between both Lee and Collier County, but it is on the Lee County side of the line. And the question was whether we could provide sewer service to that restroom facility without suffering a certain amount of review and regulation from the Public Service Commission. Since then we've requested and received a staff letter from the Public Service Commission telling us that " · OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 217 they don't regulate governments and they wouldn't even in this' case even though they've not taken a normal PSC position. The County Attorney's Office feels comfortable enough with the response that we've gotten that they feel that issue's been resolved. So we will -- and if you'll recall, there is Bonita Beach & Tennis Condominiums here we're currently serving and we can actually go straight across the road and provide sewer service here at the Bonita Beach facility. The other outstanding issue was actually a location issue and it is location of the entrance on the Collier County side. The entrance that is currently used is the one that is also shared by the Barefoot Beach Development and also by the Barefoot State Preserve and the entrance is right here off Bonita Beach Road and you turn immediately to the right and go into our existing parking lot. The board's last discussion and direction on this issue was for us to continue to pursue leaving that entrance where it is rather than trying to move it. The problem that we encounter is that this property which is OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 218 deeded to Collier County as part of the Barefoot Beach develo~ent project has reverter language in the actual recorded deed which says if we ever have a second entrance into this parking lot the property reverts back to either the developer or home owners' association. By joining this parking lot with Lee County's, there is a second entrance and by way of doing that, we would actually lose the parking lot and the home owners' association has made it clear to us that they full well intend to stand by that language in the deed. So the previous board's direction was to try and maintain those entrances. If we maintain those entrances we simply cannot tie in with the connecting park, and that's where we stand. We had a meeting the last week in January where I asked for the three parties that are involved in this project, the first is the Home Owners' Association of Barefoot Beach; and the second is the CABB Organization, which I still couldn't tell you what CABB stands for - it's a Bonita Beach citizens group that deals with the beach supposedly on both sides of the line; and also the Bonita Shores, Little Hickory Home Owners' Association. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESt FL 33962 219 We met with all three of those groups to try to come up with some reasonable solution to that. I think this item has been festering long enough. It's difficult to get these groups to come to a consensus, but the proposal that I laid out to them, and also after a meeting with George Archibald's staff, was actually a relocation of this entrance. There is an entrance located at about here on Bonita Beach Road which is the one currently being used by the Beach & Tennis Association. The concerns previously were: One, cost from both the citizens and the CABB organization; and secondly, safety. So the proposal we've laid out was to leave the entrance where it is while the road's two laned but at the time the road's four laned, we would plan on moving this intersection and the main entrance of the park further to the north and the west along Bonita Beach Road and build some turn lanes and signalize that intersection so it actually lined up with the park entrance here and the entrance to the Beach & Tennis Club here. The transportation staff was able to tell us that they could design a safe intersection there which was the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 220 first concern of the residents. They always thought previously that this couldn't be done. I think it can be at the same time the road's four laned. Their second concern was cost. The Lely t{ome Owners' Association and developer have agreed to pay or actually move their obligation for allowing the intersection from here to there where they'll actually pay for the cost of the light and installation. So with those two issues aside, hopefully we can get that resolved and get that intersection moved and get an interlocal agreement approved between Lee and Collier County and get this under construction. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.' Is that an acceptable alternative to all the people who were at that meeting? MR. OLLIFF: I'm almost positive it is acceptable to the Barefoot Beach Home Owners' Association. I had a meeting with the CABB group this Thursday night at their meeting where they've committed to take another vote on the issue. I think the driving forces of that group were Dave and Marge Ward who seemed to at least be willing to listen and I think by the time we get here on Thursday OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 221 they'll probably be willing to support this compromise. I've told them that we would like the time to come to the commission, which I've tried to schedule for the 18th of February to have all these groups stand there at the podium and say that while this isn't the best of the options available, it's what they would recommend that the board do and I think we can get them to that point. If we can, Lee County's chomping at the bit. In fact, they were telling me I was doing a lousy job in my new position before I even stepped down here saying we couldn't get this resolved and they're ready to go back out and redesign their project and forget Collier County and I think that's a shame. I think it's a good opportunity we can take advantage of and I'm trying to work with their attorney's office to stave them off from going out and doing a redesign until I can try to get this back in front of you hopefully on the 18th. That's that issue. COMMISSIONER RASSE: Does it look like you' re able to do that, Tom, get them to hold off for a little while? MR. OLLIFF: I think so. COMMISSIONER ~ASSE: They' re not anxious to do OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 222 that, you know. MR. OLLIFF: Actually, they are. To them, they're making concessions in order to find parks. They've got a much bigger and aggressive beach construction program than we do. Our total project is somewhere around a hundred thousand dollars and that includes the engineering and design. in excess of $800,000. in construction costs there. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: On their side of the park it's They're pushing a million dollars They're not going to start construction on the thing until the fall. MR. OLLIFF: I'm just relaying to you what I get from both Ray Judah and -- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Have you talked with Ray or just staff? MR. OLLIFF: Just staff. The commission actually discussed this particular item, directed their attorney's office to call us and then basically asked us to get off the dime and do something because if not they were going to bring it back in front of their commission and recommend it be redesigned. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Also in that meeting it OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESw FL 33962 223 was discussed about the fact that they don't want to move in there during the season that the beach is being used and they want to wait until August and September before they actually start construction on it. MR. OLLIFF: I agree. COMMISSIONER HASSE: They agreed -- we agreed, basically, I think, with the entrance being across from the condominium complex there. And wasn't the Barefoot Beach Property Owners' Association going to pay for the light and everything else there and the turn lane? MR. OLLIFF: The last direction the board gave me was not -- didn't give me, the last Public Service Administrator, not to move this intersection, to leave it here. That was at the request of the CABB organization and home owners' association. They wanted it left here. I'm just telling you you cannot leave it here, join that park and keep your lane. That's just not an option. So if you want to keep that parking lot, then either we're going to have to work out some way of moving this intersection or not having a joint park. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Were those property owners so adamant about that entrance being moved and so on? I'd OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 224 rather leave it there, too, but here we have a~ opportunity to have restroom facilities and a much larger park, parking lot. MR. OLLIFF: A couple things I think that swayed this to where the compromise will work is one, the home owners' association doesn't want traffic through this main intersection. They just don't want that, this home owners' association in Barefoot Beach. That's the same one they use to go home. They are willing to change that deed language so we can have two entrances and maintain the property if we'll relocate the entrance here. That's what sells them. For the Bonita Shores and the other people, the Lely people are also going to give the county this property that was used primarily just as an entrance road in order that we can build more parking spaces in the parking lot. And I've had our capital project staff give me evidence on how many more spaces we can fit in there and they're saying anywhere from between 20 and 40 depending on how I wanted to try and maximize those spaces. so with the addition of 20 to 40 parking spaces, with the ability of us to safely design an intersection OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 225 there at no additional cost to the taxpayers, I think everybody will agree. COMMISSIONER HASSE: And the ability for them to hook into a sewer system. MR. OLLIFF: You don't want to say that you've got a trump card in your pocket, but -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: We have, though. MR. OLLIFF.. -- when you negotiate with Lee County and they continue to want to go out and redesign when you're holding the card that allows them to have sewer service there, it makes it real difficult for them. COMMISSIONER HASSE: As I understand, they're not able to dump their sewage any other place. MR. OLLIFF: They would have a real -- in fact, I don't know if they can possibly get a septic system at that location. It is basically the same kind of situation we've got at Clam Pass Park restroom facility, and I don't think we'll be able to expand that current septic system. The second issue is the Vineyards soccer field construction. That's a project we've got a pretty short time line on and the budget was approved for that and the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 226 project and concept was approved by the board about three weeks ago. Last week the board approved the engineering design contract with Wilson, Miller to go ahead and do the designs for that project. They were on our road paving list at the end of the year so we can do that quickly. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Tom, did you get with the County Attorney's Office about the ordinance that's going to require amendment to the ordinance in order for us to use those recent park impact fees for this? MR. OLLIFF: I haven't specifically. I'm assuming that they are, but I'll follow up after this meeting and make sure that they are. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Does this have anything to do with the schools or anything? MR. OLLIFF: Well, it does. It's adjacent to, in fact, -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: I know that. MR. OLLIFF: -- Vineyards School. We are sharing the land that they currently have their softball fields on. The design that we had showed to the board when you OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 227 approved it actually showed two smaller sized soccer fields which is good for the Optimist Junior League fitting into the outfields of those existing softball fields and then the county actually building three more regulation-sized fields. The next step that we want to have is to have a sit-down meeting with not only the engineer before he actually starts putting pen to paper to design the road but just a conceptual meeting with both the manager's office and those people from the Vineyards who have a vested interest in the location of those fields. So we want to try and get an understanding amongst everyone where those fields will be located, if and when they'll be lighted and all that so that we know that there's no stumbling blocks to get the construction done by September. COMMISSIONER HASSE: We' re looking at five fields? MR. OLLIFF: You'll have a total of six, actually. There's a field which exists in regulation size. MR. DORRILL: It's already there. COMMISSIONER HASSE: You' re prejudiced, too. MR. OLLIFF: I can't be accused, I have no kids. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES~ FL 33962 228 COMMISSIONER ~ASSE: I still accuse you. MR. OLLIFF: I think that project is on schedule. Capital Projects will actually be doing the job of getting them built. Their target is to get them built by the end of August, beginning of September when the kids' soccer season starts, and I think we can make that. COMMISSIONER ~ASSE'. The only problem is the location of two fields, isn't it? MR. OLLIFF: To my understanding, that should be the only outstanding issue. The land is basically correct to be able to do a fast track project on it. It's already cleared and it has drainage available to it. It has an adjacent school facility with restrooms and we' re going to try and negotiate an agreement with the school board. I don't see any real problems unless we run into the home owners' association. COMMISSIONER RASSE: You're not going to use the same restroom as the school, are you? You' re going to build a new one. MR. OLLIFF: That's what the board went ahead and told us to do, go ahead and try and execute an agreement with the school board to be able to use the existing ' OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 229 restroom facilities that are there. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Are they outside? MR. DORRILL: Yeah. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: They've encouraged us to try to -- MR. DORRILL: And they've done -- the irrigation system was subbed out in anticipation that we coRld do that. COMMISSIONER ~ASSE: That' s good. MR. OLLIFF.' The last item I've got is sort of a follow-up on the CO of the two new buildings. You authorized several years ago the construction of two new buildings within this division. First was the new Agriculture Building which is located out on Immokalee Road. You've not had any type of a ribbon-cutting or grand opening for that as yet primarily just because that building was a large part assisted by state funding and so the Agriculture Department has tried to wait until the state session is over with so we can have some of our state representatives with you to cut the ribbon on that building. COMMISSIONER HASSE.. We can handle that. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 230 MR. OLLIFF: It's scheduled for April -- the Ag Building was built at a cost of about a million two. The only outstanding issue with that building is a portion of that was designed to be leased to the Soil & Water Conservation District. And I've, I think, got that resolved, that issue resolved and final lease agreements will be brought back to you for execution sometime in February. They should move in the first week of March given there are no problems about those leases. COMMISSIONER RASSE: They financed a good portion of that, didn't they, the state? MR. OLLIFF: Yes, they did. We've got some grant monies through the state to do a certain part of that construction. That's just the first nice good central facility agriculture's had since it's been here in Collier County. If you haven't seen it before we have the grand opening in April, just give me a call and we'll set you up. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGRT: We have a problem, though. We don't have any furniture out there and we can't use the main room. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 231 MR. OLLIFF: They were running that project really tight to the budget and they did not want to bust their budget on that because of some of the changes that occurred with Soil & Water Conservation moving into that building. They were hesitant about doing some of that kind of stuff. They've actually got three different types of chairs there now that they're looking at and they should be ordered this week and I would expect delivery on those within four to five weeks. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Does that mean that they'll be here in time for June for the 4-H banquet, because Corkscrew's supposed to host the 4-R banquet this year and they're either going to have to go to the Big Cypress Elementary School or even to Immokalee, and we'd really like to hold it at the ag center. MR. OLLIFF: The other building is the library. If you haven't had a chance to see that, it's open to the public on February 3rd. You should have gotten an invitation for a grand opening February 13th. We've had a lot of assistance from the Friends of the Library and I think we've prepared some thank you letters from the county to them. I think they've OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 232 contributed everything you'll see that's in excess of what you consider basic library standards. You'll see a lot of sound equipment and a lot of plants when you get there and a lot of technical equipment that assists those that are blind or legally blind and there's some of those reading areas, and those machines were all provided by the Friends of the Library. That building for all the heat it took for its architectural exterior's going to be a gemstone for us in terms of our kind of buildings and offices. Inside it makes a lot of sense. It's a great improvement at almost three times the size of the original library, and our job now is to make sure it runs and works. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Tom, parks and recreations, more global issues. Our relationship with the City of Naples as it relates to certain of those park facilities. I don't know what issues are there, but there's some outstanding issues that have existed. I'm thinking particularly of Seagate. I'm not sure where all of that stands. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I thought that was settled. MR. DORRILL: There are three city parks or county OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 233 parks rather that are actually inside the city limits of Naples. There's Seagate Park where we have a small investment in a softball complex, basketball, tennis courts; Bayview Park and the Bayview public boat ramp is inside the city limits; and the last one is what I call the Naples Bay, Park Shore Beach access site. Again, that's inside the city limits of Naples. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I don't know what type of a relationship we have with the city as it relates to those three areas. I think Horizon Way, that's issue's been resolved, right, in favor of the city. So I'd like to, you know, somehow work on those, those issues. COMMISSIONER HASSE: We worked on the Bayview Park to great length a number of years ago and I thought it was settled. C~AIRMAN VOLPE.. Maybe they are. Maybe they are settled. I'm not sure. MR. DORRILL: The only one that I'm aware the city has an interest in is Seagate Park and I think for no other reason than the new mayor was the former principal of that school. And our present agreement at Seagate OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 234 Park has us leaving that site by 1994 or 5. MR. OLLIFF: '94, I think. MR. DORRILL: It will become then a city park site. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I thought it was before then. MR. DORRILL: He wants to see it renegotiated, but we don't have any basis to do that at the moment. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: The other, and I don't remember how we finally resolved the issue, but we were talking about through the vehicle and interlocal agreement between the City of Naples and the County of Collier that we could begin to take some credit in our Growth Management Plan for certain recreational facilities within the City of Naples. We had talked about that. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I think, frankly, we lost -- MR. DORRILL: We had talked about it and I'll have to ask Frank because -- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Somebody said that we couldn't take credit for it and them take credit for it, too. MR. DORRILL'. We got an opinion from DCA, as I recall, that said that. In the case of recreational regional park lands, though, we got a different opinion OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 235 because we can in fact take credit for state facilities, and the one that comes to mind is Collier Seminole. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: And we've done that. So, the issue with the city, though, we're not able to take credit then for-- MR. DORRILL: I recall us having an opinion from DCA that said that, but we can check it and see. MR. OLLIFF: For the city, they have their own comp plans as far as their level of service and we cannot use and take credit for theirs without reviewing their inventory amounts. So on the state side, however, they don't have that opinion and they're trying to keep up with the growth management. credit. COMMISSIONER HASSE: at Bayview Park, though. We can't use theirs to our I think you might want to look I think we should be able to take credit for that because that's completely taken care of. MR. DORRILL: We do, and that's a county facility and -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, that's what I'm saying. But it's in city property. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 236 MR. OLLIFF: In fact, I think the addition of those state parks that Nell mentioned there primarily has reserved lands and things. There are still some facilities requirements that we will be required to do, but from a land perspective that amount of 500 plus acres or whatever we were looking for at the inception, it's basically gone away. It's a number game, honestly, and we need that land that was here when we adopted the plan and it's not added to the additional regional park acreage, but our level of service requirement went away. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: And so does the bonding requirement for 10 million dollars, 17 million dollars for a regional park. MR. OLLIFF: Correct. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: The social services aspect of your division, there are a number of areas that we've discussed. In fact, the discussion that we had earlier about the Immokalee Urgent Care Center really comes under your department. MR. OLLIFF.. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Correct. And I guess as well those issues OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESt FL 33962 237 as they relate to the homeless, that's an issue. COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's your baby. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: That's within your division, some of the other social services that are being provided, so we don't -- I realize that you're new in that position but it seems to me that we really need to have as a community some sort of goals in terms of those social services issues. So I don't know what they are, Tom. I'm not sure in terms of priorities, but if we've got a steep decline for the balance of the fiscal year, I'm not happy with, you know, just these project-oriented goals. MR. OLLIFF: I'll tell you, there are two major issues occurring on the social side of Public Services Division. One is the proposed reorganization of RRS at the state level and I know Ann as well as Martha have been keeping very close tabs on that because the affect on county is going to be enormous. I think the general intent is to restructure HRS and try and eliminate a lot of what they don't have to do but on the other hand try and force down a lot of their services down to the local government and probably going OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 238 to fall on county and city governments. We are trying through the Florida Association of Counties to stay as close to that as we can, but even since I've taken over this job there's been four different bills they've looked at, none of which even closely resembles the previous bill. So it's real hard to try and stay on top of where they're heading with that one, but it's going to have an impact on us. MR. DORRILL: My note here says that you might like to see some alternative goals for this division that would include an inventory or accounting of social service's indigent program. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Yeah, I think so. That's a fair way of characterizing that. On that bill, as I understand the bill talking about restructuring HRS, I thought it was progressing through the legislature. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: No. We're now in our fifth or sixth rewrite. Every time they sit down to rewrite it, they're just rewriting the whole thing. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, I for one am supportive of OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 239 the idea of separating public health and putting public health over here and then putting the environmental issues someplace else other than in the area of HRS. I mean, whether HRS should be talking about testing septic tanks and water quality and those kinds of things, you know. I'm not really upset about the fact that that may get moved out of HRS. And I don't know enough about -- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Well, that was part of -- that was part of the governor's reorganization, but this bill is touching on everything as to, you know, what social service -- what social programs that the state should be funding and which ones the county should be funding and just all of that and not just what Dr. Polkowski's talking about. That's just what the governor's proposing to do. But this is a complete bill reorganizing all of HRS and the funding mechanism for it. But Martha and I will keep abreast of what's going on. CHAIRMAN VOLPE ~ Utilities. MR. ARNOLD: For the record, I'm Mike Arnold, the Utilities Administrator. Our three goals this year focus -- two of them at least focus on our capital program and the third gets OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 240 into some capital projects that are related to our private sector utility acquisitions and our strategy directed towards those acquisitions. First goal is the East and South Naples Sewer project. At long last we are in the homestretch, I guess, of this project in that we will focus our goal to complete and close out all remaining actions by the end of this fiscal year. This one most affects the county commission in terms of the final public hearings that we will have to have and schedule hopefully this summer. We are targeting as early after June 1st as possible to go ahead and hold the final public hearings on this project. We have a window that's established by statute for us to hold those hearings and the window first opens, if you will, June 1st and ends on September 15th. That window is established because of the need to get these on the tax bills for being collected with ad valorem taxes. We will be scheduling that hearing and sending out notices of that hearing in the very near future and we will also nail down a time frame and we recognize that we always have a lot of things that are going to occur OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 241 during that and we're going to be attending the budget workshops obviously and the commission meetings where we can schedule them around your leave of absence or your vacation during the summer. We'll try to work around that, but I think it's our recommendation and behooves us all to get those held and conducted and completed as early on as we possibly can because at the conclusion of the hearings we have a considerable bit of work we have to go through in order to get the roll finalized and a format that's acceptable to the tax collector and get those on the tax bills. I've enumerated here about six steps, though, in which the hearing -- six steps we're going to go through to complete this and close out the construction contract. And for all practical purposes, those are complete. All the pipe's in the ground and we're pretty much in the wrap-up phases and final consideration and final paving issues and things of that nature, so that'll be wrapped up probably no later than March the 1st. Still, approximately 4,000 of the-- roughly 7,000 notices to the property owners in this district to be sent out yet. We have not sent many of those out for the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 242 last two months primarily because the area's not been ready for the property owners to connect to. So you can expect that we will be ready. What we' re going to try to do within the next several months here is to have a display type ad in the Naples Daily News, a full page ad where we try to get as much of the information regarding this project as possible condensed and make it very understandable and outlined in a full-page ad where it's maybe a pull-out and they can take it with them and use that for the basis for knowing how the assessments were arrived at and what's the use of the impact fees and et cetera. We're also suggesting, and Neil and I've talked about this, too, that perhaps we try to hold some staff conducted informational sessions prior to the formal hearings that you have2 And in the interest of maybe defusing what might be some very sensitive hearings and also to perhaps ferret out, if you would, some issues out there we' re not aware of, -- I mention that because it was a project one of our neighboring counties to the north -- it was last year or the year before whereby the residents opposed it, built OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 __ ,, i, ll I I UIIII _ _ JEII llll I 243 up a real antagonism on unresolved restorations of driveways, mailboxes and things of that like and just came out in a flurry in the final public hearing and staff and consultants and everybody was totally caught off guard by it. So it would be our intent to do a few of these sessions in advance and maybe get a sounding board somewhat and ferret those things out. We're prepared to get some responses to those at the final hearings. I would ask -- I was involved in looking for means whereby we can dedicate these costs to property owners and spread the impact fee payments out, reduce the assessments, et cetera. If any of you have any further thoughts on that, please share that with us so we can look into them prior to getting into the hearings. My concern there is as I said we need to conduct the hearings quickly and be able to give us enough time to staff and our consultants after those hearings are completed to put all that information in the proper format. If you'll recall, our initial hearings on this drug out about four months. And again, there are some OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 244 sensitive issues that may be brought up in those hearings that may suggest that you need to hold further sessions on that, and that's perfectly okay, but I would suggest that we again try to condense, at least wrap those up to the very least within the month of June. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Are the final assessments that are contemplated by some been below what was said in the preliminary assessment roll? MR. ARNOLD: I'm hopeful. This has been a very successful project from my perspective, particularly given the complexity and the size of it, which is further compounded by the issue of having the federal funding involved in it. It's -- I'm pretty much amazed myself again as we're pretty much on schedule with all the contracts are within or slightly over or below budget, so overall the initial costs of the construction we told residents seem to be holding pretty true. The one biggest mitigating factor in the assessments, of course, was grants. And as you know, we' re very successful in getting grants. it? COMMISSIONER HASSE: That was eight million, wasn't Pretty close to eight million? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 245 MR. ARNOLD: For this project it was 6.8 million for East and South Naples. Now, we've got another 11 or 12 million for the regional system plan and et cetera and then, of course, we've got another 14 million dollars low interest state loan funding also which helps fund the assessment side, too. So I kind of lost track. What was your question? CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, my question is really when we get to the final assessments, the final assessment rolls, if it's going to be less, the final assessment's going to be not more than what was set forth in the preliminary assessment roll would make the whole issue a bit more palatable for the customer. MR. ARNOLD: I kind of try to avoid getting nailed down when I go out and talk to civic groups. I've always said the upset figure is roughly $60 a front foot, but it's going to vary across the various districts. I'm hopeful it's going to be down around $50 a front foot or maybe even less. And we' re in the process of doing those final calculations right now. Be reminded that we do have five districts and there will be variations as to the cost per front foot OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES~ FL 33962 246 across the five districts, so be prepared for that. Any other questions on that project? North county regional water treatment facility's, of course, our new membrane plant that we' re building and in the companion facility that goes with that. There really is no further significant action to be taken on that project that would involve the county commission unless we get into some change order issues and things of that nature. The contracts are all proceeding. We will be bringing to you additional awards in terms of contract awards in terms of lines, our deep well injection, our deep injection well in up there, et cetera. But for all practical purposes, we're pretty much over the hump on the public perception issues on that. Our target date, of course, is to be on-line sometime the early part of this coming next season in '93. COMMISSIONER HASSE: How far have you gone physically with that, Mike? MR. ARNOLD: Physically, the contractor is Just now moving on the site for the plant. COMMISSIONER HASSE: You haven't built the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 247 overpass, the canal? MR. ARNOLD: Yes. We' re just wrapping that up right now. COMMISSIONER HASSE: You're wrapping it up? Because I didn't see much there last week. MR. ARNOLD: Well, there's not much to see. There's some pipe culverts that have been put in there and a temporary road that comes in. MR. DORRILL: We had to build a construction access. If you'll recall, you didn't want us using the Estates for construction access purposes until we had under a separate agreement with Mitchell & Stark (phonetic). They came in and built the canal crossing over the 951 canal and the alignment is straight off of Vanderbilt Beach extension. But that's in and I guess he's actually on the site or will be moving to the site and have been doing some preliminary clearing and grubbing activities the first thing. MR. ARNOLD: If you'll recall, our provisional use land use process that prohibited using Weber Boulevard, the one paved access to that. I was sorely tempted to let the contractor sneak some equipment in there this OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 248 week to get this project moving, but we remain sensitive of the issues the residents brought up out there and the position that we committed to. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Did we finally reach some sort of agreement with the developers of the Old Florida Golf Course there in terms of the shared expense of that? MR. ARNOLD: Not really. As a matter of fact, I've heard -- I don't see Frank here, but someone in his department recently said that that project is gearing up in terms of them -- COMMISSIONER ~ASSE: MR. ARNOLD: MR. DORRILL: development plan. They' re what? Gearing up or heating up again. They filed a preliminary site They're either at the point where they want to be with their pre-sales memberships or something, but they -- the question there was participation in the further construction of permanent Vanderbilt Beach extension that would run past our property out to I guess their property which is I want to say a half mile east of where we're at, maybe -- MR. ARNOLD: More like a mile. MR. DORRILL: It's that far? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 249 CHAIRMAN VOLPE: As part of the approval, I thought that there was some cost sharing, they were going to provide some -- there was a question about an easement and other things. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I thought so, too. MR. ARNOLD: Well, there was and there wasn't. I guess it was pretty much dependent on whether or not, based on their readiness to proceed now. Just between us here, I think they probably held off until they've seen the county has had to make a commitment out there in terms of getting that road built at least out to our parcel and get the right-of-way issues resolved at least on that section of the road. Then, of course, they'll be coming after us. Now the monkey is put on their back in terms of road right-of-ways that you -- they promised -- as a matter of fact, I think they said the time they actually have hand in hand all the quit claims they need to perfect that right-of-way all the way out to their parcel, and of course they had to attempt also to build the roadway. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Was that culvert supposed to be a permanent culvert? I thought it was supposed to be OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 250 pulled. MR. ARNOLD: semi-permanent. COMMISSIONER HASSE: culvert? MR. ARNOLD: the ultimate-- MR. DORRILL .' a -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: I would probably characterize it as What is a semi-permanent Well, it's probably not going to be Ultimately I think you'd like to see I thought we weren't going to put anything over there and these things were supposed to come out of there. That's what I thought. MR. ARNOLD: Well, we're characterizing our usage and the transportation director concurs with that, characterizing that as just an access road. COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's right. MR. ARNOLD: It has lesser standards and not a full-blown neighborhood or collector or whatever you want to refer to it as because our traffic is not going to be that great. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Now, when that reaches a situation, they're going to have to put the box culvert OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 251 in there, are they not? MR. ARCHIBALD: We're going to catch up-- COMMISSIONER HASSE: What? You have to speak up, George. MR. ARCHIBALD: We're going to catch up with the Old Florida Golf Course at about that time. If we can, and we are able to make them responsible for making that -- MR. DORRILL: What he's saying is the golf course developer will be responsible for participating in a more permanent roadway crossing. The crossing that is there is semi-permanent to the extent that it's to be construction access, but it's not planned to be-- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I thought that was part of the approval of their Old Florida Golf Course development, that that was one of the commitments that had been made. Are you saying that it is not a commitment, it's an issue to be addressed, George? MR. ARCHIBALD: I believe the way the stipulation finally fell out was written in such a fashion as to require that if in fact they were the first ones that needed it. Those kinds of problems we're seeing time and OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 252 time again. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: it. So we' re the first ones that need MR. ARCHIBALD: What Mike has done is gotten by with the least expensive route and we're going to wait our turn and our turn will come about and Old Florida Golf will want a permanent roadway. COMMISSIONER HASSE: We'll have our say later on. MR. DORRILL: Our crossing is only considered to be a temporary crossing for purposes of providing construction access. They're precluded from using Weber for their permanent access. They're going to need to come straight back to Vanderbilt Beach is my understanding of it, at the point in which we'll hit them up to participate in the cost of a box culvert or some type of bridge crossing at Vanderbilt Beach extension. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay. MR. ARNOLD: Probably a pretty significant amount geometrically and I guess in conjunction with the lighting we get at that point also. There will be some costs there. MR. DORRILL: Mike, I had just one question on this OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESv FL 33962 253 because I wasn't aware of this. We're still awaiting a permit for the deep well injection, or they issued an intent to permit? MR. ARNOLD: We' re on the verge of getting that, that whole project which was the deep well itself. think we estimated 18 months and even up front we estimated that at least 12 months of that be taken up by the permitting process. That's a pretty lengthy process and gets all the way up to the state level and goes through a technical advisory committee at the state level in Tallahassee. So the permitting process is the more time consuming than the simple drilling and sinking of the well. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Yeah, but suppose these people get up on their high horses and say no deep well injection? MR. ARNOLD: I think we're beyond that point. I think we're at a point where there's just some little, I don't know, administrative items with them. But the basic permit hurdle's been overcome. And that's basically trying to prove there's no detrimental effect, so OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 254 MR. DORRILL: And we' re -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: You're sure of it then? MR. ARNOLD: Well, as sure as you are about those things. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, that's what I'm just saying. Where are you going to move to? MR. ARNOLD: Pardon me? COMMISSIONER HASSE: Where are you going to move to if it don't come to a-- MR. ARNOLD: Into the water plant. MR. DORRILL .. Pinellas County. MR. ARNOLD: Any other questions on that particular -- we have the plant to build and we have the deep well to put in and also we have the wellfield expansion ongoing and we've got that broke into phases and having difficulty of getting easements out there. We have the wells half in and another half to be put in, and the pipeline connections with regard to the raw water -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: You've got the pumping stations all in place? MR. ARNOLD: For the most part, yes. Our raw water station was put out there last year as you know, and OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 255 that's all done and completed and that's patched in to serve those plants. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: Mike, before you get to goal three, you don't have any goal-related to the new waste water treatment, the expansion of the waste water treatment plant up in North Naples? MR. ARNOLD: No. And again, being constrained here I guess to three areas and as Tom Olliff said, these are the things that are on the front burner here for the upcoming fiscal year. The plant, you know, we Just completed an expansion up there and we do have an engineer on board already and has been awarded an engineering contract for the next expansion. So in my mind that's moving right now and there are issues associated with that design that need to come to your attention we would certainly bring those to you, but in my mind no issues are associated with that project that would warrant discussion here as a top goal. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay. MR. ARNOLD: Finally, goal three here relates to an overall subject, that is the private sector utility issues and what actions we are initiating and taking in OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 256 regard to our stated goal here regionalizing water and sewer service in the county and we're well along with some of these. Some of them are in the early stages and some totally undecided or we don't have any clear direction right now from the county commission of where to go with some of these. I've enumerated I guess the five or six here that we are moving ahead on. The Pelican Bay system obviously their plan of dissolution, et cetera, we are for all practical purposes operating that utility and we need to do some final things during the budgeting process this year to make more formalized arrangements. We do have one key thing to accomplish this year and that's refunding or restructuring of some of that debt up there, and we will be bringing that to you shortly for your consideration in conjunction with our findings and discussions in terms of bonding and et So that's the key issue, I think, with Pelican cetera. Bay. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: At last week's board meeting we talked about maintaining a presence or maybe it was at OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES~ FL 33962 257 Wednesday evening's meeting we were talking about Mr. Ward and his responsibilities vis-a-vis that division. You have people who are actually -- the people who are actually -- the field crew there, are they working under your division? MR. ARNOLD: Indirectly. Mr. Ward is still up there as the figurehead, so to speak. We run our construction crew through him or in lieu of that we do have people on site that give specific day-to-day instructions to those field crews. MR. DORRILL: The plan, though, is that the utility side of the district will move over at such time that the permanent facilities are in place and that they will then be regional utility employees and what remains then will be the district employees responsible for street lighting and landscaping. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Drainage? MR. DORRILL: And their storm water will remain as part of the district, not part of utilities. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, that's why the discussion on Wednesday I sensed that Wayne Young was talking primarily about fertilizers and he was talking about -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 258 MR. DORRILL: Yeah. I think they recognize that our plan from the beginning on this thing was to incorporate the utility aspects of the district into the regional water and sewer system and they haven't had any problems in that regard. MR. ARNOLD: As a matter of fact, some of the prior board members have come up to me and said on several occasions that things seemed to be working out well up there. MR. DORRILL: And it's even gotten down to the point where they had sort of an expensive color scheme and whatnot on their trucks that they had up there. And recently we've been converting some of the trucks as they're coming through our repair facilities and we've painted them county white and put the county logo on the side of the vehicles because they had sort of a cream or metallic paint job on some of their vehicles and so as they' re coming through we' re having them converted over so that they resemble county fleet and equipment and having them properly marked that way. COMMISSIONER HASSE: When is it going to be completely separate from us; the sewer system I'm OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 259 speaking of now. MR. ARNOLD: The question is when are we going to be fully incorporated. The overall promise up there was at some point in time that sewer plant will be taken out. Our target date for that, which is kind of floating, will probably be a '95 time frame. very old facility up there. totally demolish it. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Obviously that's not a You don't want to go in and Well, if you're talking about refunding the bonds, you're not going to do it by 1995. MR. ARNOLD: I'm sorry? CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, you just mentioned, you were talking about refunding the bonds for the Pelican Bay Improvement District, what was the Pelican Bay Improvement District. MR. ARNOLD: You're saying the bonds are -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I mean -- MR. ARNOLD: If they're part of the refunding, They're there for the construction. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Yeah. They're there for the construction of those capital facilities there. It doesn't seem to me that you can do it within 1995. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 260 You're talking about another 10 or 15 years. MR. ARNOLD: That might not be true. I can't recall if that debt relates to specifically the plant or outstanding utility debt that relates to the pump station and pipelines and et cetera. I don't have the details. MR. DORRILL: The finance committee, though, is looking at that because I asked Mike and also Mr. Yonkosky to put PBID, former PBID debt refunding on an upcoming meeting and have that evaluated against whatever it was that they built or used the proceeds of the bonds for. CHAIRMAN VOLPE .. Okay. MR. ARNOLD: I don't want to drag it out here, but just to quick run down and to give you an answer to your question, the plant is still treating sewage up there. However, the overflow, the access flow will be billed directly to the county or North Naples plant right now. The only component that remains to be done is the completion of the one missing leg of the effluent line which reclaims the water back to Pelican Bay, and that's under contract right now, that construction. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.. As long as we're talking about OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 'that area of the county,' we' re talking about a new water line that's being installed down on Carica. MR. ARNOLD.. Yes. There's a Carica new storage tank and repump station that's under construction right now° CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I understand that. And there's an item on tomorrow's agenda having to do with the supplemental agreement on the Carica engineering cont r act. MR. ARNOLD: Yes. There's an agreement to the engineering contract which covers both the design and construction and we recommend -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: But there is a water line now. There's a vate~ line that's goin~l to curt through Pine Ridge out to I think Vanderbilt Beach Road? MR. ARNOLD: We need to get another main or -- MR. DORRILL: There's one there now. We' re going to have some parallel main that will have to be done in conJ unction. MR. ARNOLD.' That comes out of Carica and they hook up and takes them to Pavillion Shopping Center and that's basically where we tie into the other feeder lines that · ' OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 262 run to the north end of the county and we're contemplating getting some other feed lines and maybe -- CHAIRMAN V0LPE= Well, in my conversations with Fred Fletcher (phonetic), I thought that was contemplated and the work was going to begin shortly for that new water line. And there's going to be a three-inch -- I mean, a big one, a 36-inch water line. MR. ARNOLD: It's not imminent. I don't think we have -- I know we don't have any designs on it or anything of that nature. And we -- I don't think -- you might know. We also had in inquiries from residents of Pine Ridge in terms of doing water assessment projects up there, so there may be an opportunity to combine -- C~AIRMAN VOLPE= Well, that comes up in that context because I thought Fred had indicated that there were a certain number of people within the Pine Ridge subdivision who may be able to connect up to the county water if you ran a four-inch water line parallel to this new water line that I thought was going to run down Carica. MR. ARNOLD: We make a practice of not allowing connection directly to a transmitter. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESt FL 33962 263 CHAIRMAN VOLPE: But that discussion seemed to me that it wasn't -- it was something in the next six to eight months. MR. DORRILLI I don't think so, but we can check and see what the water management plan calls for. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Four-inch main? MR. DORRILL: For domestic purposes, yeah. MR. ARNOLD: What's your particular concern with that? CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, we're Just talking about Pelican Bay and we've got a transmission line that runs through Pine Ridge but they don't have sewer, they don't want sewer within the Pine Ridge Subdivision. MR. DORRILL: They can't afford it. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: But they do want water and there are now -- as I understand it, there are water lines on all sides of the Pine Ridge Subdivision, along Pine Ridge Road, along Goodlette-Frank Road. There's one along Hickory and there's one along U.S. 41 and now we've got one that I thought was being proposed to run from U.S. 41 to Goodlette or to Carica, along Carica Road. So I was thinking about as part of our, you know, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 264 talking about providing water service to that partic~lar area of our community, whether that's one of the goals that we should be trying to address. MR. ARNOLD: Yes and no because that's an area that doesn't currently have or has very little county provided water lines up there. CHAIRMAN VOLPE= Water quality is a real problem in that area. MR. DORRILL~ It is. Within that community not only do they have increasingly high chloride levels but there are some areas there where I call it the iron water, whether it's that or whatever's in the water. It's worse in Pine Ridge than it even is in Golden Gate in some instances. And water quality in the shallow wells that are there have been a problem for years. For what it's worth, I think I'm scheduled to speak at the next District 2 association meeting and that might be a good thing for me to touch is the extent to which or whether the Pine Ridge community is interested in some type of taxing district or special assessment project to provide water. They don't have any interest in sewer, though. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 265 CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I understand that. I think there is a certain level of interest for the water and I Just think in terms of what we're trying to provide to the community for that particular area -- MR. ARNOLD= As you might recall, I attended a civic association meeting with that group up there just last year and we put together preliminary costs and took a little map up there and et cetera. The group was real divided on this at that time, and in fact the nays had it over the ayes at that point in time. Now maybe there's more declining water quality up there and maybe that's pushing the ayes over the nays now. CHAIRMAN VOLPE .. Okay. MR. DORRILL.. Okay. Touch on your last one. MR. ARNOLD: Off Pelican Bay, North Naples Utilities obviously we've had that before you and had discussions with the county commission previously and I don't think I need to expand on that anymore. I will say that we've still got the completion of the connection is targeted to be completed by July 1st. Wyndemere, that's in the private sector system that we've recently taken over the sewer service on and we OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 266 have under -- close to getting under contract a water main to be constructed on Livingston Road that will come down from Pine Ridge that will give us the water connection and we'll complete the transition and total transition of Wyndemere, both water and sewer, to the county system. We're also getting close on the Vineyards. There was one remaining developer contribution or developer impacting credit agreement that we are trying to finalize in that area that will complete the last segment from basically Airport Road that ties into the Vineyards, and that will trigger and be out of any prior agreements we have with them and then we would have them on sewer service also. We provide the water but we don't provide the sewer service right now. So that will probably be done and at least trigger that connection by August 1st of this year. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: So does this sewer come off of Vanderbilt Beach Road extension; is that where it comes up? MR. ARNOLD: The sewer line comes across--yes. MR. DORRILL: That's where it will be. I don't OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTYw NAPLESw FL 33962 I 267 think that it's there now. east side of Airport Road. Vanderbilt Beach. MR. ARNOLD: The fourth main runs up the I don't know that it runs out We've got it up Airport to basically Orange Blossom Drive, I think about 1500 feet south of Vineyards. We also have a developer agreement again and we presented that scenario to you sometime back and another developer is going to continue to build that all the way out to the Livingston Road and that will trigger the Vineyards. I think they have the remainder. So those dominoes are going to start falling here pretty shortly. This also gets into, again, the double impact fees as someone in the community brought that to our attention in terms of the fairness of that or not. That probably goes to some overall comments that we'll hear in regard to these private sector utilities. You obviously know we're in the Naples Sewer Company/Don Arnold litigation, and as a matter of fact you discussed this I'm sure at your last or prior to that board meeting. That's regarding the MSTU project up in Naples Production Park. That hearing is scheduled for OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 268 Thursday, I believe, and we're posturing ourselves and preparing ourselves for that hearing. Again, it's the consensus, I guess, of our legal counselors right now that we'll win that action in terms of questioning our ability to take over that utility. COMMISSIONER HASSE.. Is there a figure that you're looking at there? MR. ARNOLD-. Pardon? COMMISSIONER HASSE: How much? MR. ARNOLD: The transition agreement or I want to call these purchase agreements. The agreement we brought to you last week was $800,000 to buy out and close out this utility lock, stock and barrel. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: That's on our agenda for tomorrow as well and there's -- there's been some further analysis of the current financial status? MR. ARNOLD: Yeah, with a little finer review, if you will, of the costs and also come back with some feelings of where this action's going to go. COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's what you're recommending, 800,000. MR. ARNOLD: Well, I think it's my opinion shared OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 269 with my staff and the County Attorney's Office and outside counsel if we go through the full course of litigation on this that we will spend $800,000 that we've already recommended to you as the purchase. This goes to an issue that, you know, we do indeed need to look at those utilities in terms of litigation cost avoidance. I mean, that's a factor that we always entertain a factor into the cost of the utilities. we'd also like to be able to choose our opponent and choose our battle ground, so to speak. Some of these issues the county attorney informed me that they're not all that cut and dry and we feel pretty comfortable that our position is solid on this issue but there's always the uncertainty when you get into court. COMMISSIONER HASSE: You started out with twice that, though. MR. ARNOLD: Yes. He's still insistent that utility's worth a couple millions dollar up there. So we're far away below that figure. Nothing else has happened with the Rookery Bay Utility. That's located on the East Trail and a little further out but they've also filed a suit on the same OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 270 issues. So we'll continue to explore settlement options and other issues as that continues. Regarding the two large, I guess, remaining private utilities that's Avatar/Golden Gate and also the Marco Island system, we have done a couple of preliminary studies, analyses of these for you and presented those to you. We don't feel comfortable nor do we think you do as to what direction to take on those yet. I think we have characterized to you the Golden Gate utilities probably being very doable from a financial standpoint and perhaps doable with any rate impact out there. Of course as you know, there's your basic notice and general rate increase right now that's-- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, -- MR. ARNOLD.. That's doable and we probably need to get back to you and hatch out some final issues and make a decision one way or the other on that one. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, I mean, you don't have any figures, do you? MR. ARNOLD: We had figures that we presented in our preliminary report. I'm drawing a blank right now as OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 271 to what the total dollar amount we came up with. C~AIRMAN VOLPE~ I think like 15 million dollars, 10 or 15 million dollars. MR. ARNOLD= Ten was sticking in my mind, but I think it was seven, water and seven, sewer~ total of fifteen or -- COMMISSIONER HASSE= Something like that, but you should get something concrete together on that, concrete as you can get it, because I got news for you: When this thing starts hitting the fan in regard to the increase of their fees, boy, you're going to hear that out there. They've got a meeting I think in another week or so out at the community center. I think I got to go to California at that time so I don't hear it. guess particularly in the Golden Gate utilities, is if we go in there and buy it out and we take it over and we run it, then it's going to be coming up on us to start running water and sewer lines down the streets that don't currently have those. COMMISSIONER HASSE: That' s correct. MR. ARNOLD: That's exactly what we're going to do OFFICIAI~ COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 272 with the Vineyards out in East Naples project and although the headache that is for both you and us because therets some real costs associated with that. MR. DORRILL: Well, that's been the problem that that utility has had is they don~t have the wherewithal to put in and expand in particular their sewer, -- COMMISSIONER HASSE~ I know that. MR. DORRILL: -- and the balance of Golden Gate City is not sewer outside of what I call old Golden Gate, which is that area up in the northeast corner. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, they cantt insist on it, COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Max and I would like to take the system over before we retire. MR. DORRILL: Wet re working on it. COMMISSIONER HASSE= We~d like to do what? COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ You and Itd like to take the system over before we retire. Wetve been talking about it now for eight years. MR. DORRILL.. Conversely, I don~t know that we'll ever get to the point where we can afford to take over the -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTYt NAPLESt FL 33962 273 COMMISSIONER HASSE ~ Marco. MR. DORRILL~ -- utilities on Marco, but that's still in the analysis phase. utility on Marco. COMMISSIONER HASSE ~ let's go on. MR. DORRILL: MR. ARNOLD: That's an awfully expensive Well, seeing Dick isn't here, Okay. I guess that's it. Overall, this issue's with regards to or relates to Just some clear direction on our overall strategy or continued support of what we've been working towards, what we've been taking on and taking over as we go along and that's been our focus and we're intending to do that aggressively. Aside of dealing with these issues, the issues of private sectors, I will say we put an extreme amount of time and energy and effort into those, but they aren't easily accomplished. With staff time sometimes we can ill afford to give that up. So that's why I think it's important for us to get some better feeling from you that we're on the right track and we can move ahead with the program as a whole or if you wanted to deal with the utilities on a 33962 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 274 ' segregated basis as I've started to sense a little bit of that here and we'll be seeking clarification on that. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Other than Pine Ridge, is there any area of our community that's within our service area that we're not currently scheduled to bring water or sewer to within our service area, within the county service area? MR. ARNOLD: None other than the Estates. That area of the Estates that lies within the urban area boundaries of the Comprehensive Plan we do not have plans to provide water or sewer service to; however, should they request the assessment project methodology, then we will certainly entertain that. COMMISSIONER HASSE.' Are we talking Wyndemere area and through there? MR. ARNOLD: Yes, wraps around Wyndemere and through the north end of Golden Gate City and the rural Estates as we'd classify them. Because of the costs we don't think that's a possibility and those aren't targeted and for the other reason, of course, those are large lots and the septic systems can function and do work very well on those large acreage tracks as opposed OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 275 to a 50 by 90 foot lot down in East Naples. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: We've got water up in Bonita Shores, Little Hickory? MR. DORRILL: Um-hum. Throughout. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Throughout. So we just -- MR. DORRILL: Sewer, also. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.. Pine Ridge is the only area other than Golden Gate Estates? MR. ARNOLD: Yeah. There may be pockets here and there, but that's the big area. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay. MR. ARCHIBALD'. For the record, George Archibald, Transportation Services. I've got some, very briefly some external and some internal challenges but in each case we're dealing with the same issue of funding, funding, funding. The first funding concern deals with our capital program. What the AUIR has indicated to us is our shortfall and it's been well publicized. Not only have we gone ahead and tried to address our capital shortfall by reducing our capital improvements but obviously trying to pump up impact fees. That effort is still underway, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 276 and for the board"s information, wetve got a series of workshops and meetings set up. The first workshop will be the 26th of this month. The evening workshop will be handled by the CAC, the citizents advisory committee of the MPO. That meeting will be followed by an afternoon meeting of the 27th. That will be followed by a meeting of the following evening of the CCPC taking a look at the ordinance thatts being prepared~ and that in turn will be followed by a public hearing before the board March the 10th. so in a relatively short time frame -- COMMISSIONER HASSE= You~ re going to send us notice of these things? I don~t have them. MR. ARCHIBALDt Yes, we can confirm that in writing. There will be roughly four meetings between now and March the 10th, the meeting wherein wetll make attempts to explain to the people the process that we~ve gone through and information that wetve assimilated, the systemts'approach to taking a look at impact fees and obviously some of DCA~s new provisions in this proposed rule that may give us a larger window to look at. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESt FL 33962 277 To the board members that are here, my approach will be again to recommend the larger of the fees but to explain how we developed the two fees; one fee on the 70 percent saturation, the other fee on 100 percent saturation and a third fee which will be a discount fee. Typically most impact fee ordinances state-wide you have a discount provision. The superseding ordinance which we Just got through drafting up, very similar to what we have in place now except for the affordable housing section will have a section of being able to adjust the fees if any revenues come into play. Obviously revenues either in gas tax or sales tax or ad valorem or assessment come into play. All of those have a tendency to reduce the impact fee by changing the credit side. But anyway, to make a long story short, in the next two weeks there will be a series of meetings where we'll attempt to go over with as many people that will listen to the facts and figures. While we' re here, the board members should also be aware of the opposition building up relative to the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 278 higher fee. And what we're looking at to try and correct that may be an assessment fee approach, an assessment fee in which we may accept the lower of the two fees for a period of time and then increase that to the higher fee or to the higher fee discount within a given period of time and all of that still being contingent upon us coming in with a financing plan that still meets the intent of the AUIR on concurrency. The concurrency issue may be met in ten years rather than five, but in fact I would expect that the plan that we would be recommending to the board would have an element of stepping fees up, possibly starting off with a lower fee and having a discount fee. Those were some of the elements that were discussed at the last meeting in which we brought before the board, and that isn't going to address the complaints and concerns of people. Staff has not gone on record yet, has not made a big to-do about our strongest position, which is one that we feel we can support whichever fee the board chooses and recognize that the board can choose any of the nunnber of fees. That will be important that the board directs OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 279 staff to create another fee schedule. But again', to make a long story short, I think what you'll see is a fee that will have a step approach. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: We're going to be fixing a date tomorrow for the hearing on our amendments to our Growth Management Plan. And that's the one where we have got the CIE element which is funded by a county-wide special assessment district. I don't know what the staff has been doing since that matter was brought before the board back in, I think, October, but presumably you'll come up with or you will have some alternatives that we'll be able to consider as a part of that amendment. MR. DORRILL~ At the hearing we will because of our concern that the assessment method is too expensive to perform the annual administrative costs, certify the roll. And by the time of the hearing we're going to have to show you what the alternatives are and they're not going to be very good. off. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: But that hearing is not too far I think that's a fair statement. You're talking March 10th, and, you know, that's all going to come together about the same time. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 280 COMMISSIONER HASSE= You're talking 75 million over 5 years is what you' re looking at? MR. ARCHIBALD= That's what the AUIR calls for. As you know, we've scaled the expenditure size down and increased the gasoline tax at the state road site so our shortfall we're looking for is more than that. That's based upon the data that's in that report that was submitted to the board and also part of our impact fee analysis. I'll be the first one to admit we're having a difficult time explaining to people the system approach and system concept. Even traffic engineers have a hard time of transferring their historic analysis approach from the road corridor to a system, but I still feel and DCA somewhat confirms it by proposed legislation. The system approach which makes so much more sense and all of the rules that we've seen today and all of the Growth Management plans you've seen to date relative to the level of service on a road segment do not make a lot of sense when you take a look at it and compare it with the system approach. I'll give a very good example of one. There's no OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 281 use to us going out and six laning Bayshore Drive when the service level changes as a result of one car, and it may not ever change and it may not ever grow beyond that. So, when you run into artificial problems such as that from a concurrency standpoint, the systems approach takes into consideration how the entire system is operating makes much more sense than just isolating each individual road segment out and looking at how it operates and not considering how it measures with the rest of the system. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: This is outside of transportation, but it does relate to our transportation network. We should be hearing from DCA on Sewell Corkran's challenge to our Growth Management Plan within a fairly short period of time I'm told, probably within 30 to 45 days. COMMISSIONER HASSE: That should have a lot to do with this. MR. DORRILL.' It should. My information was a little different than that. Since you-- response, because you asked me that two weeks ago at our meeting on Thursday. And the hearing officer had indicated that because of his backlog of cases that it could be as long OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 282 as six months before he would render his proposed order, if that's the correct term, hut I sent you a note Friday. It's probably in your mail. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I thought he had to render a decision within a certain number of days after the proposed briefs were submitted. MR. DORRILL: That's one indication that I have. If that's incorrect, I'll leave it to you to tell me that or that that's not consistent, hut we sent you a note on that Friday. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay. COMMISSIONER HASSE: In the case that this is successful, what happens to the whole thing? MR. ARCHIBALD: I think that will give more credence to exactly what we're doing. COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's what I'm saying. That'll take us a little off the fire, won't it? MR. DORRILL: And into the incinerator. COMMISSIONER HASSE.' Well, maybe so. Maybe so, but that's according to how you look at it. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: At some point we ought to have someone from your staff, Neil, kind of update us. I'm OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 283 not sure at what point in time, just what the implications involved there are in terms of the transportation network and whether it's through Ken Cuyler's office or through Bob Blanchard because that could have some significant implications and it will give credence to what I think we' re trying to do in terms of a system line approach but it may also cause us to do some things a lot more quickly than we had anticipated and -- COMMISSIONER ~ASSE: I don't want to do it. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, -- MR. DORRILL: I've got that. move us onto the next one about your access management poli cy. MR. ARCHIBALD.. If I can while I'm on funding, I Just wanted the board to know from an operational standpoint we have a lot of needs that aren't being served by simply gas tax; needs relative to some major bridge repairs that are needed out there that don't present a hazard of any kind but things that begin to build up and we've got an infrastructure out there over three thousand lane miles worth over a billion dollars that we've got to maintain from not only the standpoint George, why don't you OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 284 of keeping it properly repaired and maintenance but there's a lot of things we can do to make our road system more efficient and a lot of things we can do to make our road system safer. And right now funding is a constraint. So not only do we have bridge repairs out there, a lot of traffic improvements, the loop systems we've talked about putting in and installing that may need funding. There is a series of safety equipment, quantities of improvements, roadway lighting improvements and some of those, particularly those on state roads we're going after state grants to implement those. On the county road system I think I need the board members to know there are a lot of needs out there that relate to the maintenance of that infrastructure and most of those we've been handling through our road and bridge operation, but there's a few of them out there that are going to be brought back to the board as separate items to be addressed as a safety issue or because part of our infrastructure we have to do something about. MR. DORRILL: Give us an example. MR. ARCHIBALD.' A very good example is the work OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY~ NAPLES~ FL 33962 285 system to the Marco bridge is Just about to fall off the bridge. COMMISSIONER HASSE: The what? MR. ARCHIBALD: All of the piling that support-- the columns that support the bridge. The entire work system that goes around the bridge itself. Now, it doesn't affect the integrity of the bridge, but it doesn't meet Coast Guard requirements for having a fender system on the bridge and lights and so on and so forth. So that's an item-- that entire system, what hasn't fallen into the Marco River already is about to. It's something that's going to be very, very expensive to design and replace. There's roads out there that we would like to put guardrails on for a safety standpoint. There's some road sections out there that need lighting because we have a lot of pedestrians that use it. You all know we have a number of roads that need signal systems and what we call close looped together to work and function more efficiently. And those items we' re working at behind the scenes, but they're starting to build up and you'll see the staff try to implement those from time to time. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 286 In addition, we've got a lot of roads out there in the rural area of the county that need to be widened. Some of those programs are a five-year time frame, such as having the money. C~AIRMAN VOLPE~ Do you have a number for all this maintenance program that the state is -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: You mean the amount? CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Dollar amount. MR. ARCHIBALD= Taking a look, we're -- COMMISSIONER RASSE: I'd rather he didn't. MR. ARCHIBALD: -- talking somewhere in the neighborhood of a million dollars a year to be able to address that. MR. DORRILL: That's his item No. 3. He sort of skipped ahead to three and he's saying there may be upwards of a million dollars a year worth of, you know, establishing a sinking fund for some of these longer term bridge replacements, intersection improvements, safety improvements being not only signals but streetlights, guardrails. I know we got a call in our office the other day about our long-term program to put a guardrail along the length of Airport Road. And I told the lady we don't OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 287 have a long-term program to put guardrails along any county road where there's an adjoining canal unless the proximity or the distance between the road and the canal Just warrants it from a state design standard perspective. MR. ARCHIBALD: There' s about -- we' re spending about $250,000 this year on road resurfacing and road widening. So there's already some money in the capital side. We're allocating towards those. But the point is that there could be some bigger dollars spent that would produce some big efficiencies in capacity and safety. Those are things that are difficult for the taxpayers to put a dollar on, but they're important when you look at, particularly look at capacity. And I'll probably use that to get into the third item, the last item and that is the transportation issues that relate to land use and the importance of that; the importance for not only ordinances such as access management but what that relates to in dollars. We' re looking at about a minimum of five million dollars a year that we can go after. And when I say five million dollars a year, I mean developer commitments. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 288 Every time we approve a land use action of one kind or another, we do a fair job of trying to identify what their share is from a site specific nature. And I think the county has shown some foresight in trying to get those commitments because the fact we have a road system out there that network roads and has been identified and people recognize that and people are willing to make donations of rights-of-way. What I'm saying is not only under access management but under our Land Development Code is that you're going to see the staff get much much more specific and the reason being is that each time we ask for something, the developer has to pay for that. Re's going to need some way to get reimbursed or some kind of credit. The new impact fee ordinance that supersedes the old ordinance has provisions just like that. We take away his right-of-way as a commitment that he makes and then he gets credit for that right-of-way back. And every time those relationships occur, and they do occur every time you approve regulations, you have to end up establishing another policy or another rule to get that commitment back and not have to end up paying for it. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 289 And that commitment can easily mean over five million dollars a year to the county in terms of not only rights-of-way that are due to the county but also in terms of capacity improvements. So all of those things that we're going to be requesting from developers, the staff has to be more precise in addressing those so that everybody realizes that some of those are going to be with credits and some of those are going to be without credits. We're going to do the best Job we can of better identifying those in the agreements that we ask developers to sign when they have a PUD or rezone. And actually, we need to take it one step further. We actually need in our ULDC to have some verbiage as to how staff is going to look at that and how staff is going to be asking for commitments and what commitments will be subject to credit and which commitments by developers will not be subject to credits. And because there's such a large dollar to be gained by the county, I think we need to pursue that in addition to pursuing access management and so if your staff is -- you'll see us pursuing that more and more. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 290 Even from the standpoint of putting provisions into our new access management rule, that not only assures we maintain capacity, not only assures that we end up controlling median openings and require them to have all turn lanes but actually one step further. We want to know that we can control capacity of our road system. We also want to make sure that developers can only develop to the extent that they have driveway capacity. So we're going to be taking access management one step further on these and making sure the development provides safe access but also access that has a capacity that relates to the traffic that development will generate. And we've been doing that for years, but I think we need to do it a little more precisely than we've done in the past. And typically what we' re having are people in the Transportation Division working very closely with people in Development Services to make sure that we can include that kind of language or those kinds of commitments and requirements and any land use changes that come before the board or before the CCPC. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I thought you were looking at OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 291 that all the time with development people and so on. MR. DORRILL.. We are, but what he's saying is that we're going to need and we should have a more defined policy that's part of the Land Development Code. A good example would be the new Home Depot on Pine Ridge Road. We required them to do a number of things in terms of decel lane and shared access with the new space and widening of that side street and how you get in and out of their internal driveways. They even have some obligations to do a traffic study in conjunction with the land owner behind them that will determine when and how we should signalize that intersection, how it should relate to this traffic light at Pine Ridge and Airport, and Pine Ridge and Forest Lakes Boulevard and make that their obligation. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Aren't we doing that? MR. DORRILL: We are, but George is Just saying that this is one of the goals that we actually need to refine those policies in our Land Development Code and make that more of a sophisticated stipulation. MR. ARCHIBALD~ You're going to see staff and let's take for example, two recent approvals at the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 292 intersection of Pine Ridge and Airport. Everybody agreed to giving exactly what the county needed there. The only thing we didn't have in there was a time frame and we'll see staff being a little more precise in not only making requirements but tying it down to the form it's to be dedicated in and the time frame for the commitment to occur. Those are the kinds of stipulations that we haven't been real precise on because we've had such good cooperation from the development community for so many years. Now the development community feels like their back is up against the wall from a cost standpoint and they're looking at ways to get around those commitments or get paid for them or get credits for them. So we have to respond to that by dotting our i's and crossing our t's when it comes to stipulation for development commitment. COMMISSIONER HASSEz I was hoping you were doing those things, but-- MR. ARCHIBALD: We are. COMMISSIONER HASSE.- -- if we weren't strict enough on them, we'd better start doing it in a big hurry OFFICIAL COURT.REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 293 because when I see these figures, they frighten me and I look at the Grey Oaks and other places like that and I worry about them, if you want to know the truth. We've got developments on every corner up along Airport Road there. MR. ARCHIBALD.. I should also note from a good side that we are getting a lot of new type commitments from developers that go even further and are even more important than right-of-way, and that is environmental mitigations and use of private developments' rear water management system for the road water management system. Those kinds of commitments don't appear like much but from a dollar standpoint they're worth big, big dollars. So, we' re getting a lot more in the way of commitments and we' re asking for a lot more. And again, I think because of the represented dollars it would be more important for your staff to qualify and quantify these commitments even more so than we have in the past. MR. DORRILL.. Okay. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: George, other than the three goals here, I'm reminded about some sort of a commitment to airports. I don't know whether that's a goal that's OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 294 before us in 1991/'92. MR. ARCHIBALD: It is. It didn't make the list, but I think it's about fifth on the list. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.- What' s fourth? MR. ARCHIBALD.- Fourth has to do with some -- not access management but regulations relative to interfacing communities with the commitments we make. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.. So you're saying the. airport then is on your internally -- MR. ARCHIBALD.' Yes. MR. DORRILL.' And we track that as what we call a short-term goal or project assignment in my office, and I'm scheduled to be in Tallahassee in two weeks to try and meet with the new DNR executive director about the Marco Airport in particular; and in fact, we continue to operate the facility without a lease and what are their desires and that type of thing. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ I was thinking of Marco and, of course, Immokalee and Everglades City and so on. MR. DORRILL: Okay. Moving to the courts. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: They've been waiting all day long. MR. BRIGHAM: It's very important that I wait all OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 295 day long because in 18 to 24 months some of these issues you've talked about here will end up in the courts. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: department. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Hopefully not the probation Don't be so damned optimistic. MR. BRIGHAM: In the last couple weeks when I talked about goals with the Judiciary, we kind of came up with three on our own for the Judiciary and then the one thing I'll pass out, the ones in your booklets are the ones for the county-funded departments. And they're distinct in terms of funding, emphasis and who controls what. For the Judges, as their civil case loads go up and the criminal case loads have fallen flat, their number one goal is timely judicial service. Any attorney here would know that it's very difficult to get ahold of the judge's calendar at the present time the way things are operating. And so they're doing things to increase court dates and back trials. Number two for the judges is some sort of revenue enhancement and control of expenses. The Judges would like to see some kind of user fees introduced for the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 296 services that are provided by the county. For instance, with the Guardian Ad Litem program that we're allowed by statute now to introduce a user fee and so that's just one of those areas that the judges would like to see something started. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: That's a volunteer program, isn't it? MR. BRIGHAM: The volunteers do a lot of the casework but the county supplies the coordinator and at nearly 30,000 plus benefits and office space and it's growing and growing. So in a sense it's a volunteer program, but we do have a lot of money invested in it. So those are the kinds of things, and also the judges would like to see something done about fine collection and that's a problem to be worked out not only with the probation department but more importantly with the clerk's office. COMMISSIONER HASSE.. Isn't that being done now? MR. BRIGHAM.' They' re trying. They' re trying. Continued discussions. For the county-funded departments, one of my themes during my first six months with the county-funded OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 297 departments is that we can't do things the way we always did them. Probation case loads have gone up to such a load that traditional probation just doesn't work anymore. We need to examine and look and develop other ways of doing things. And one on the scale would be intensive probation, is on page two of there, and the other scale and simple probation we have to, for the pesky little stuff, come up with a new method of dealing with them in court and getting rid of them and not seeing them again. MR. DORRILL.' Why don't you give us an example of that as well, because that's something that I'm not even that familiar with. probation"? MR. BRIGHAM: What do you mean by "simple I would like to see for the person who comes into court for no valid driver's license, a simple case like that or suspended driver's license, to get the folks, get the probation officers and do a quick assessment, help the people get their license and pay their fines and get out and never see them again. MR. DORRILL: No continuing probation as part of a business or anything, it'd Just be a one, you know -- and OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 298 somebody who's otherwise a first-time offender, something like that? MR. BRIGHAM: Yes, first-time offender that doesn't need any follow-up. Presently we' re assigning them to probation which means an awful lot of clerical work is involved and they might be assigned for two or three months to probation to pay all these fees and fines and it doesn't do the people any good and it doesn't do our employees any good. So I'm saying our probation system has to be looked at during the coming year and design a graduated probation system from very loose to very intense. And it's a serious and important project that was begun by the development -- strategic development project for corrections that the county paid for and endorsed last year, and the Correctional Planning Committee endorses this idea of graduated intensive probation and so that's one of the things we're going to try and carry out. In the Witness Management Department there's a -- they need to take control of all the action of calling all the witnesses to court and the juvenile court, that is still controlled by the clerk's office. And Just for OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERSt COLLIER COUNTYt NAPLES~ FL 33962 299 efficiency and dealing with things in a similar manner, we need to bring that into that department. Finally, with the Guardian Ad Litem program this year we wanted to bring up not an Advisory Board but maybe a better word is a volunteer Board of Directors to help with the training and help with the public relations and the speaking. In other words, get more people from the community involved in the program. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Who funds the big billboard there advertising the Guardian Ad Lttem program? MR. BRIGHAM: Lee County. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I thought I saw -- MR. BRIGHAM: Lee County Board of Directors. They have a separate non-profit organization called Guardian Ad Litem of Lee County and that is the same title as the court program and many of the same people are involved in it, but they-- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: MR. BRIGHAM: There may be a sign. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Isn't there a sign on U.S. 41 in North Naples promoting the Guardian Ad Litem program? A huge billboard I thought I saw yesterday or the day Isn't there one in Collier County? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 300 before. MR. BRIGHAM: CHAIRMAN VOLPE: the county? MR. BRIGHAM: I'm not sure. I'll check again. You're saying that's not funded by No, that's funded by the circuit. That would be funded by the circuit level program, not the county level program. CHAIRMAN VOLPE.- It seemed to me there'd be a better use of your money than a big billboard for the Guardian Ad Litem program. MR. BRIGHAM: Right. I didn't say I put it there. So in other words, the final line for the courts is as we continue to grow, we'd like to come up with new ways of doing the old things so we don't have to keep turning to the county for more and more money at every single turn. Thank you. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: How about the-- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Are -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT.. There's a couple things that I'd like for y'all to look at in the coming year and that's the pre-trial release program. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 301 I really think that the courts and the county manager or through the county manager needs to take over the pre-trial release program. Currently it's in the sheriff's preview, and the State's Attorney and the Public Defender seems to feel like we have got a person that's actually doing the arresting that is also doing the pre-trial release or the investigation for pre-trial and the sheriff has now come back and said that no one is eligible for pre-trial release if they have had -- if they've got any kind of a contact with an illegal substance or drug, even alcohol that's been involved. So, you know, to me that causes me a problem because if it's the first offense and we can release them and get them into some kind of a program depending on what the offense is, then, you know, that's something that we should do because otherwise it's costing the taxpayers money by keeping them in jail, and so I'd like for the manager and Paul to look at taking over our -- MR. DORRILL: Are you saying something similar to Volusia County where they determine the classification of people when they're booked in and arraigned and the criteria would be established then through the court or a OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 302 cooperative relationship as opposed to that individual just sitting there for three months waiting to go to trial? COMMISSIONER GOODNIG~T.- What this individual would do is as soon as they're booked into the jail this individual will go back and look at their records and go in there and talk to them and when they appear before that judge and it's my understanding- you may know better - they have to have an arraignment within 24 hours, then at that 24-hour arraignment this individual will hand to the judge what he has found out about that person and therefore the judge can release that individual on his own recognizance without having to go through bond or either placing him back in jail for us to pay until he can go to his court date or whatever. MR. DORRILL: Otherwise who's doing that at the moment, the sheriff? COMMISSIONER GOODNIG~T: At this time the sheriff is doing it, but the sheriff is doing it on a random basis and he's setting the criteria and the criteria has been set by the state. MR. DORRILL~ Otherwise then-- because I'm not OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 303 that familiar with this. Otherwise the Judge is just basing his decision on whether to hold or not based on the arrest report? COMMISSIONER GOODNIG~T: That's correct. And also what is taking place is the individual in the sheriff's department is not giving the information to the state's attorney or to the public defender to see. If they want the information, they've got to go and see them. So what I'd like to see take place is that during the next year that y'all investigate this to see if this will be something that's cost efficient for the county to take over. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: There's a bigger issue out there that has to do with the monetary bail system. I mean, the only way you can get out -- if these had money, they could get out no matter what. Presumably these people aren't able to post a bond, and that's our monetary bail system which is, you know -- and I'm not sure where all of that is, but these are people who would be released without bond on their own recognizances. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 304 MR. BRIGHAM, Correct. These folks are the misdemeanor offenders and the third-degree felony offenders. According to the new statutes or proposed statutes that they have the right to release; that we don't really have a right to hold them any longer than absolutely necessary to process them. And the difficulty at the present time is that the sheriff changes the criteria for who gets released and who doesn't. COMMISSIONER HASSE ~ How? MR. BRIGHAM: Well, he recently said that -- he began saying that, I have a zero tolerance policy for drugs, so anyone who's picked up for any kind of drug or alcohol possession does not get referred for this pre-trial release. That makes no economic sense, it makes no Judicial sense, it makes no criminal sense to keep someone that's picked up for an open container violation in jail any more than we absolutely have to. You know, Just his name and get him out of the building or let him sober up. But to have someone checked into the Jail for an open container violation and spend 13 days or 14 days is OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 305 just -- will never make any sense for us. And the same for a small amount of marijuana possession. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to get the person in contact with a -- someone like the Court Counselor or the David Lawrence Center and get them in an education program. COMMISSIONER HASSE: As long as they follow it. MR. BRIGHAM: Yes. And these people under pre-trial release, we would be in contact with them on some regular basis to be determined. But I know that all these other folks like the state attorney and public defender are all wound up about this simply because the rules are so strict under the sheriff's department. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: They also sound like they're contrary to state statutes. MR. BRIGHAM: Well, the statutes are changing, too, so there's this great area of flux. So yes, we'd be interested in pursuing that, also. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Is that one of your goals, maybe? MR. BRIGHAM: Mrs. Goodnight. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: That was one of those that came from That's something I'd like OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 306 to see the figures on. And I think that, you know, now that we've got a court administrator that's interested in that, there's been a lot of precedents that have been set in other counties, Volusia County and Orange County, Alachua County, and so, you know, of how this operates and I think we now have something to go with where we might end up being able to save money. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Sounds like a good idea. MR. DORRILL: Anything else? COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Well, yeah. I'd like for us to take over the jail, too, but I won't start that at this time. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Don't do that now. MR. DORRILL: Strike that from the record. Mr. Chairman, that'll do it. I appreciate your indulgence. This went a lot better than last year. Last year it took I don't know how many sessions, six or seven different discussions. What we do plan to do is come back with a completed document with individual indicator dates for each one goal. I made 15 different additional points or questions that you all were interested in, and we'll have a OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 307 mid-year review date to see where we're at. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: When do you think, Nell, we'll get an actual document back? MR. DORRILL: I would think within two weeks. And then you'll have that and that will be the basis that we'll measure our progress then for the rest of the year. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay. Good. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: I think also maybe we ought to go ahead and put our vacation on the agenda to discuss it and that way staff will have a little more time to plan. In looking at the calendar, it looks like we' re going to have some excellent days. There's five Tuesdays in June this year and so we could take off the last Tuesday of June and the first two Tuesdays of July. MR. DORRILL: Do we have a budget calendar all ready or are we waiting, pending some decision on that? MR. McNEES: We'll build it around the vacation schedule. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Then in December Christmas is going to be on a Friday and we could meet on the 22nd and then take that fourth vacation week on the 29th and OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 308 then come back to work on the 5th of January, which would give us our four weeks again and we wouldn't be off as much as we were this year with the two weeks in December like we were this year. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Did it ever occur to you you might not be here in January and December? I just thought I'd mention that. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Apparently it's occurred to him. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: No, it's not occurred to me at all. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Is that six meeting dates that you're talking about? COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: I'm talking about four meeting dates. MR. DORRILL: Versus six of last year. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Christmas is on a Friday and we will meet on Tuesday the 22nd. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Christmas is on a Friday. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: See, we would have Wednesday and then Thursday off and Friday we would have off and then we would take the next week off, which would be Tuesday the 29th, and then we would come back .to work OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 309 on January the 5th, which would still give us four meeting dates in December and four meeting dates in June. And then only two meeting dates, three meeting dates -- two meeting dates in July. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: We can bring that up. COMMISSIONER HASSE: to 52 Tuesdays of meetings. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: get plum ill. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I would like to look forward That's all. There is no way. You'll Well, we've got a meeting tomorrow morning at nine o'clock. (Proceedings concluded at 3:40 p.m.) * * * * OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 February 10, 1992 There being no further business for the Good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by Order of the Chair - Time: 3:40 P.M. 310 STATE OF FLORIDA ) COUNTY OF COLLIER ) I, Christina J. Reynoldson, Deputy Official Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at Large, do hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the date and place as stated in the caption hereto on Page 1 hereof; that the foregoing computer-assisted transcription, consisting of pages numbered 175 through 309, inclusive, is a true record of my Stenograph notes taken at said proceedings. Dated this 2nd day of March, 1992. l. ': '~ ........... '" · . ~.:Y..",.":'..:.!.~. Christina /~~'R?R.~, ': :i Nota~ Publi~/ ~~' ,'.~" OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962