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BCC Minutes 06/29/1992 BORI GINAL?C ? COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PELICAN BAY SERVICES DIVISION BUDGET PUBLIC HEARING June 29, 1992 6 .-00 p.m. Fifth Floor Meeting Room SancFlorida 5801 Pelican Bay Boulevard Naples, Florida 33963 Reported by: Christina J. Reynoldson, RPR Deputy Official Court Reporter Notary Public State of Florida at Large TELE: OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS Carrothers Reporting Service, Inc. 20th Judicial Circuit - Collier County 3301 East Tamiami Trail Naples, Florida 33962 (813) 732-2700 FAX: (813) 774-6022 BOARD MEMBER~ { APPEARANCEs P. Anne Goodnight- County Commissioner Max A. Hasse - County Commissioner Burr Saunders - County Commissioner Richard Shanahan - County Commissioner Michael Volpe - Chairman Bob Byrne - Budget Office Neil Dorrlll - County Manager Mike McNees - Budget Office Richard Yovanovich - Assistant County Attorney Jim Ward - Pelican Bay Services Administrator Bernie Young - Chairman, Advisory Board Peter Boyd Tom Curaldo Barold Johnson Lou Juracak Patrick Kan, Mr. McMur phy Russ Smudge Bob Walker OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER.q. CC~T.T.T':~ ,-,,.-,,, ............ 3 PROCEEDINGS CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I'll call the meeting to order. Mr. Dorrill, could you please lead us with the invocation? (The invocation was presented, followed by recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance.) CHAIRMAN VOLPE.- Good evening. I'm delighted to see as many people who have taken time out of their busy schedules to participate in this public meeting this evening. We have a printed agenda and I don't know whether there are copies available. We have a rather short agenda. The first item on our agenda is the advertised public hearing involving the presentation of the fiscal year 1993 Pelican Bay Services Division Budget. Before we proceed, Mr. Dorrill, any opening comments that you have or any information you'd like to bring to the attention of the Board? MR. DORRILL: No. We have no other changes proposed this evening other than the presentation of the budget and that resolution associated with the assessment OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 ~'~.~. No. 4 and that's been done at the request of the Chairman and the Board will receive public comment on any items that you have and particularly germane to the Pelican Bay community and that will be immediately following the ?~ ' advertised public hearings. '-:,'?. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Thank you. Mr. McNees? I ~%~' MR. McNEES.' I'll turn the floor over to Bob Byrne . ?.x'.... from budget staff. He'll walk through the presentation. .,.~,~ CHAIRMAN VOLPE.. Might I ask is there a copy ,~... available or have copies of the proposed budget been made l~-'' bO avatlabl e? .~:.~ = MR. WARD: There have been copies made available !~'. {~ the back table. MR. BYRNE: In the middle of the package is where the budget information starts. This is a brief overview. There are three, actually four funds involved in Pelican Bay. The first-- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Which page again? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 5 MR. BYRNE.' It's in the middle of the package. It's the first unnumbered page. COMMISSIONER HASSE.. That' s nice. zero. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: MR. BYRNE: Right. department. Just as a brief overview, and there are four -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Could you speak up so that everyone in the room can hear, please? The number after Department budget detail? And the water management MR. BYRNE: There are four funds in the Pelican Bay Services Division. The first fund is the water management fund and that's supported by non-ad valorem assessments. The second fund is the street lighting fund, which is supported by ad valorem taxes. The third fund is the agency fund which is for the debt service on the water management fund and that is supported by non-ad valorem assessments. And then there's also the water and sewer fund, which is supported by user fees. And the first budget I'll talk about is the water management budget. In the water management department it's showing an overall decrease in this department of OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 about three and a half percent. One item of note is the operating expenses are up significantly and that's about 72 percent and that involves additional costs for maintaining various areas within Pelican Bay and includes additional lake cleaning costs of about $35,000 and another $20,000 due to an increase in the indirect cost plan and about $10,000 more in berm maintenance costs. The next budget is the right-of-way operations department. This budget is changing significantly in that it's switching from an in-house right-of-way maintenance program from a contracted right-of-way program, maintenance program. And that involves the addition of eleven personnel and that involves one field supervisor, one irrigation technician, two crew leaders and seven ground maintenance workers. And total personnel costs are about $243,000. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: In terms of the decision to bring that particular service in-house, is that something that's been recommended by the advisory board? MR. WARD: Yes, Commissioner, it has. And for your record, Jim Ward, Pelican Bay Services OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 A~ninistrator. The advisory board had some lengthy discussions over the past s~mer with respect to bringing that =lght-of-way 9rogram in-house and I think in sum and substance the advisory co~mittee feels that we can gain some better control and a little more consistency in the maintenance of that program along with taking over some of the responsibilities that the Pelican Bay foundation has had over the past years and that would give us a unified focus for the operation and maintenance of that program for next year. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Does that include the landscaping as well? MR. WARDs That includes the maintenance of the landscaping items and then eventually, yes -- we have always had some in-house work in terms of landscaping r epl a cement. The community is pretty well built-out in terms of any additional plantings that'll need to go on within this community. That has always been traditionally the responsibility of the backbone developer, Westinghouse, and they've turned that over to Pelican Bay as they have OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 developed that property. And as a result most of that is completed at this time. COMMISSIONER RASSE: Overall increase in your budget is how much then? MR. WARD: In terms of -- in terms of just looking at the right-of-way program we budgeted an additional $104,000 for fiscal year 1993 to purchase the capital equiument required to implement that program, and we have increased our budget by $50,000 which covers the cost of the additional work that will be required to pick up the foundation work. The foundation has indicated there will be a corresponding decrease in their budgets for those work items that we will be picking up, so from my perspective other than the capital outlay we've been able to budget it virtually at the same levels as we have been in the prior years doing it contractually. CHAIRM~4 VOLPE: Except that the proposed budget shows an increase of approximately 34 percent. MR. WARD: Correct. Which is due to the capital outlay provision and the $50,000 which will be -- we're budgeting in our department or division as part of OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 Collier County, which is coming out of the private foundation budget for next year. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: ad valorems? MR. BYRNE: And this budget is funded through This is through assessments. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Through assessments. And that effect on the individual property owners, though, will be what? MR. WARD: The net effect overall for the whole of the budget on the Pelican Bay community is an increase of about 16 percent in their tax -- in their tax rate; single-family home owner from about $250 per unit per year in taxes, which includes the right-of-way operations and water management operations, debt service on the prior PBID bonds to around a little under $300 per unit per year. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Thank you. MR. BYRNE: Okay. The next budget I'll discuss is the street lighting department. In the package you'll see Fund 109, street lighting department, which shows zero for the coming year because it's being split out and you'll see two pages later the current budget now it's OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 10 Fund 778 and that's showing approximately a 45 percent increase in operating expenses and that's due to the fact that the street lights are finally all in place. I believe they're all in place. MR. WARD: Right. MR. BYRNE: And that reflects the additional electricity costs and maintenance costs for those. The street lighting is supported by ad valorem taxes. And Just a rough estimate at this point, the millage rate will increase by about 2/100ths of a mill to support that. Then we also have Fund 650 which is the agency fund. This is for the water management PBID-- PBID water management bonds. And that shows debt service requirements for next year and also is showing a transfer in from the water management fund of approximately $9_00,000 to help fund retirement of the bonds within the next three years. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: These bonds, Mr. Dorrill, weren't part of the refunding done or to be done? MR. WARD: No, sir, they were not. The prior PBID bonds for water management purposes support the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESt FL 33962 11 construction of the overall water management system that the Pelican Bay Improvement District undertook in 1979, 1980. They are not a part and do not become a part of the Collier County Water & Sewer District so they were not included as a part of the refinancing for those bonds. COMMISSIONER ~ASSE: That's an increase of how much, 2.4? MR. BYRNE~ Overall, the agency fund's up approximately 40 percent, 39 point-- but that's Just due to the increased reserves. COMMISSIONER [{ASSE~ Any commonts, Mr. Dorrill? MR. DORRILL: I don't have any in that regard. MR. BYRNE: Then the final budget is the water and sewer fund. That's showing a small increase of 2,4 percent. In operating expenses it's up approximately 32 percent, and that's due to the increased number of connections and the costs associated with that. MR. DORRILL: In this particular instance the utility aspects of the division are going to be assumed by the county regional water sewer district on October the 1st and that is of that date forward then the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 12 utility, both the water and the waste water and reuse facilities, will be operated by your utility division. In looking at the budget that was submitted for purposes of presentation this evening, it appears that minor amounts of money for the direct and indirect allocated costs that we use back and forth may need to be revised. I have not seen any of the analysis yet, but I know that Mr. Byrne looked at that this morning and I don't know if he's had a chance to talk to Mr. Ward. In the event that we propose to make any minor modifications on the utility side of the budget, we will hold those until your public hearing in September and we will announce and make available any of those proposed amendments to the budget between now and that time. And I don't know yet whether we will because I don't know what the extent of the changes-- if they're minor, my recommendation to you would be to leave them alone. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Mr. Byrne or Mr. Ward? (No response.) CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay. Are there any questions of On the water and sewer side, it's OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 13 anticipated that there will be 530 new connections within Pelican Bay in fiscal year 1992/937 MR. WARD: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: And under the Pelican Bay Services, which is that 1979 bond issue, there's a revenue transfer of $200,000 from Fund 109, which is street lighting? MR. BYRNE: That's the water management and street lighting this year not street lighting next year, but yes. MR. WARD: Fiscal year '93 Fund 109 was both water management operations, right-of-way operations and street lighting operations. Because of the different methodologies for assessment purposes we're splitting that fiscal year 1994 into two funds. The street lighting fund will become Fund 778 for next year and that's how that's shown. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I was just trying to understand then the transfer of the $200,000 to help fund the planned retirement of bonds within the next three years. Water management says it's coming out of Fund 109 which is -- ;. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 14 MR. BYRNE: There was a reserve in Fund 109 for construction and that money was in the reserve for construction was part of the bond issue and so that's being transferred into the other fund. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: Okay. Are there any other questions? (No response.) C~AIRMAN VOLPE: Mr. Ward, you said that overall the increase for single-family residential units would be from approximately $215 -- MR. WARD: From 257 to 294. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: 257. MR. WARD: On a single-family. For the community who's here and they live in what we call a villa unit, which is the Tierra Mar, Bay Village Bidgeway product lines, they're going to go from about 150 to 200 range to about 220 to $250 range. So there's not a big difference there. What we call the group three, which are the mid-rise apartments in Pelican Bay, they're going to go between-- last year they were 50 to $80 and they'll be 60 to $90 for next year. And the high-rises go from OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 15 around 40 to $50 to 50 to $60 for next year. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: Bringing in the right-of-way maintenance, bringing it in-house, is that going to be phased in or is that something that you anticipate the division will take over as of October lst? MR. WARD: The plan has been to assume the responsibilities as of October 1st. I understand that there has to be some sort of small phase-in, but clearly the intent is to try and bring that program in-house as quickly as we can, beginning on October 1st. CHAIRM~/~ VOLPE: We have a contract, though, with some company to maintain the medians? MR. WARD: Correct. We have a contract with a company named Jacaranda Landscape, which expires on February 28th. The Board retained when it renewed that contract the option to cancel it on 30 days' notice in any 30-day period, so we have the option to cancel that contract at any time. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: Okay. This is a public hearing and if there are any of those in the audience who have questions or would want to comment on the proposed budget, now would be the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 16 opportunity for you to do so. If it's convenient, we have a court reporter here. Maybe I could ask you -- I think we can probably hear you from there. MR. SMUDGE: CHAIRMAN VOLPE: the record. MR. SMUDGE ~ Let me raise Just one question. You need to identify yourself on Yeah, Russ Smudge, Pelican Bay. Jim, on the water management assessment that we all received in the mail about what was it, June 29th? MR. McMURPHY: That's a notice of the meeting today. Today's the 29th. MR. SMUDGEs I got it in advance then, but my bill says the preliminary assessment for Las Brisas, and I'm one of the 50 in Las Brisas, would be $207.77. And as I understand it, that will now appear on the county tax bill down below the line of ad valorem taxes. MR. WARD.' Correct. MR. SMUDGE: And probably add the water management assessment like they did it a couple years ago, it was water and sewer assessment. But it's water management assessment, which is an assessment which has not been -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 17 that is not deductible for tax purposes, is it? MR. WARD: I'll defer to your tax lawyer for your tax questions, but -- MR. SMUDGE: I just wanted to bring up that point because many people have asked me on that in the past and I thought it might be well to clear that up because if there are some changes made in future on how we allocate the costs and charge Pelican Bay residents for water management and that type of thing, there might be an advantage on changing -- and I know Bernie will probably bring this up and you'll cover it a bit more, but it may be an advantage in putting some of this on an ad valorem basis because if it's on ad valorem basis it can then be tax deductible whereas a water management assessment, according to IRS as I understand it, is not tax deductible. MR. WARD: And again, I'll defer to your tax accountant for those, but it's on the tax bill for this year. MR. SMUDGE: Okay, fine. Thank you. CHAIRMAN VOLPE~ Mr. Young? MR. YOUNG-' Bernie Young, chairman of the advisory OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 18 board in Pelican Bay. I'd first like to thank you for the time you' re giving us. I know that it appears to be a burden, but I think that we have an unusual situation here in Pelican Bay as regards to our municipal taxing district and we're sort of breaking water for the future in Collier County so that the time we spend here together hopefully is going to be worth your while because if we can do things right in Pelican Bay it's going to be much easier in the future for the additional municipal taxing district -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: When you break your water, Bernie, you give birth. MR. YOUNG: The -- I didn't mean to frighten you with this manual, but I just wanted to remind you that the board, the advisory board, has met religiously this past year and we've accumulated over 400 pages of minutes which have been sent to you each month and we also advised our people here in Pelican Bay that these minutes are available at our service office on the 5th floor of the BancFlorida building or the Sun Bank building, 5th floor. So our whole approach to this has been to try to OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 19 proceed in a professional manner, and that's what I guess we're here to talk about tonight. The first question that I know is in your minds is about this in-house maintenance and it's one that we spent many, many hours on. We tried to look down the future a couple years as well as looking at our experiences in the past. You' re all aware that this past year we lost about 70,000 yards of sod that had to be replaced at considerable expense which we had to sort of steal from different parts of the budget to cover it. Again, that was primarily because we didn't have an in-house system that could catch the chinch bug problem quick enough and do something about it immediately. And by the time we went through the mechanics of getting it treated, we had experienced this loss. we are hopeful that when you see the in-house program presented to you that this will be one of the factors that you'll recognize that was important to us. We can't let the standard of our greenery in Pelican Bay decline. We just have too much of an investment. If you'll Just look out the window and look about you the hundreds of thousands of dollars that we OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 20 spend on greenery in Pelican Bay, it could be lost overnight or a lot of it lost overnight if we don't stay on top of this. And we feel that if we can develop a professional in-house staff to be on top of the situation that we can improve the chance of keeping Pelican Bay the fine community that it is. From a standpoint of budget, it did require an increase this year because we have to buy the mowing machines and the capital equil~ment that it takes to get into this business. Fortunately we already have the accommodations, the garages, the storage buildings and offices. They're already there in our service center. So we don't have expenditures along those lines at all, but we do have to buy some equipment and that's another hundred thousand dollars we had to build into this year's budget which hopefully will not have to be a part of future budgets. So it actually -- I'm not here to say that it's going to result in a savings to the people of Pelican Bay in the long run, but it certainly isn't going to cost them that much more than to contract each year for the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 21 services. And once we get beyond the hurdle of the capital equipment, it should be very comparable in cost. Now, the one thing that from a political standpoint I know and I saw all the eyebrows come up when somebody said 11 more employees because you are currently being Judged by the citizens of Collier County on the number of employees it takes to run Collier County government and the last thing in the world you need is 11 more employees. So what I'm going to suggest to you this evening is that there is a way of the actual county budget showing municipal service employees in a separate category so that instead of lumping these 11 employees into your general overall count that the press gets hold of and makes such a big issue out of. We need to show these additional 11 employees as municipal service district employees because they're entirely funded by the people of Pelican Bay. There isn't one penny for their services that's going to be paid for by any other taxpayer than Pelican Bay, And I think from a political standpoint it's important that we proceed on this ndt only for Pelican OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 22 Bay's future but for the future of municipal taxing districts within Collier County. They can be very easily shown with an asterisk and separate category, here's the number of municipal service employees that we have, but please don't consider those as being required to run overall Collier County government. The next item that I think is going to be important to the people here in Pelican Bay is that in the past we have raised the funds to support this program through an acreage assessment. And there was a simple reason for this because initially in Pelican Bay that's all there was was acres. We didn't have any buildings to use an ad valorem tax. We didn't have the people to use a unit tax. We had to use an acreage tax because that's all that was here to tax in the early stages. The time has come, in our opinion - and we' re unanimous on this point - that we would like to find another method in the future of supporting our needs. You're well aware that one of these methods could be ad valorem, which for people coming from other states simply means property tax. However, in water management there are some new techniques being devised today called OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 23 impervious surfaces. In other words, depending on where these, the tire is and the roof surfaces are, that those are the people that have a greater responsibility for storm water run-off than people that don't have a lot of impervious surface. As far as median maintenance are concerned, many communities use a road frontage figure for determining what would be the fair costs for maintaining medians. There are unit costs developed like in the foundation that we have here in Pelican Bay, we simply assess every living unit a fixed fee and we all pay the same. So what our committee would like to be instructed to do for next year -- and the reason I say next year and I'll get to that, is there's not time to change the system this year, in our opinion. We have to live with the acreage assessment for one more year. The main reason we have to live with the acreage assessment for one more year, and this point was brought up earlier, we still have those water management bonds that have to be retired. The bonds that we understand will be retired tomorrow -- and we compliment you on the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 24 great interest rate. We are as excited about that as I'm sure you are. It's super because it's going to save us over $300,000, and we like to save that kind of money. But these are those old bonds back in '78 where we built our berm and we dug our lakes and that type of thing, but they have covenants in here that say we must guarantee the repayment of these bonds by this acreage asses~ent. And that ties our hands. So although I said earlier we would like to change the system, the methodologies for raising this assessment, until we get rid of those bonds we don't know how. Now, we figured out a way to get rid of the bonds and that's going to require your cooperation and here's some brand new proactive thinking. We still owe two million dollars. But because of the covenants we have assets in three different accounts that equates to about a million dollars and we have the reserve accounts and we have those construction accounts and we have all this stuff you have to set aside in this type of a bond issue, but that's assets. That's a million dollars. If we could release those assets, we would only owe OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 25 another one million dollars, not two million dollars. So what we would like to do is Pelican Bay would like to borrow from the county before the end of the year, before January 1, one million dollars or 960,000 -- your financial people will figure the exact amount. I'm just using round figures, one million dollars. we will repay this one million dollars in three installments over three years at five percent interest. Now, before you say five percent isn't enough, we've already checked and you' re not getting five percent on your surplus funds currently so there would be a profit made by the county; small, but a profit. But more importantly, you'd really be helping us because the minute that we can retire these bonds -- and I really think your administration would like to retire them and refinance along with the other bonds, this then relieves us of the covenants of the acreage assessment. And even more importantly, instead of paying the same $200,000 a year for the next ten years, we've taken care of this debt in the next three years. So seven times two hundred -- we'd save the people a million, four hundred thousand dollars. It sounds like it can't be done, but ~.' OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 26 we're pretty sure it can. We have good financial people on our advisory committee and creative thinkers and they've said, Hey, we can do it this way. And on a short three-year term hopefully it wouldn't -- the million dollars would be available to us and we've got rid of the covenants. And then we'll come back to you in the fall with new methodology on how we can more equitably tax the people in Pelican Bay for the services that they get. We'll come back with maybe three systems, have you take a look at them and tell us which ones are worth continuing to explore and then take those whatever two or three or one, whatever it may be, back to the people so that by January 1 of next year we'll be in a position to guarantee the repayment of that million dollars with a new tax methodology. And then the following year if we get it started in the first two years, we're ready to roll this over so that we' re not in this time crisis that we' re in here today. The objective, you know, is -- as I've mentioned, is not only to save money for the people in Pelican Bay OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 27 but to come up with a more equitable taxing system than the acreage which is now obsolete. And i think we can all understand we now have buildings and people where we used to have nothing but acres. So that's essentially the message that I hoped to convey tonight is that we've made a very honest attempt to make this municipal taxing service system work in Pelican Bay and we're excited by its future. We're not nearly as upset as we were a year ago because here's a possibility that will work. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Right. MR. YOUNG: We want to make every effort to make it work. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Bernie, as you move down the line on the right-of-way in-house maintenance program, do you ever get to a point where you get your investment back? You said that -- you implied that you didn't think you would. MR. YOUNG: The reason is that I --with my experience with the residents of Pelican Bay, I think they' re going to want more rather than less. And as they want more, it's hard to recover. It's hard to recover OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 28 things. But it's always possible. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: You have a million dollars in three accounts which you' re going to use along with hopefully to borrow a million dollars to pay off that two million dollar -- MR. YOUNG: An interesting thing about it is the three-year payoff doesn't alter the amount that we're currently paying, one dollar. We're going to use the same amount that we're currently paying this year and we don't have to increase the assessment to do it because we currently pay 350,000 to retire these old bonds. COMMISSIONER RASSE: A half million dollars? Tell me something about it. MR. McNEES: Well, I'm a little bit taken by surprise and-- MR. YOUNG~ We did not have any -- this is in the sunshine. MR. McNEES: A couple things I can say, there isn't a million just somewhere waiting. Now that doesn't mean that it couldn't be found maybe somewhere in the future years. MR. YOUNG: All you have to do is co-sign a note OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 29 from the bank and-- COMMISSIONER S:{ANA~AN: He's asking to borrow it between now and January -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: Why don't you do it without our co-signing? MR. YOUNG: Because we have no legal identity. MR. McNEES: To answer your question, the last discussions that your staff had had 'and your finance committee had had regarding this, we had talked about early refunding of these water management bonds in terms of -- well, I think we even looked at it with your board, what small increase in the assessment would it take to put these away over the next couple of years and consider that. This is a new proposal that your staff hasn't even seen that I know of, so it's something that we'd have to report to you feasibility and -- it could be done, as I understood it, over the next couple of years with a relatively small increase in the assessment to the folks in Pelican Bay. Re's talking about a way to do it without any increase, which is something we'd have to look into in OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 30 terms of where would the money come from and what's the opportunity costs then to what of not having that million dollars, you know. There's some other issues there. COMMISSIONER HASSE: What responsibility do we have by backing these bonds or this million dollars? MR. YOUNG: Collier County has no-- MR. McNEES: They're backed by the special assessments within Pelican Bay at this point. COMMISSIONER ~ASSE: I mean, if they've got the million dollars and we back this million dollar -- MR. DORRILL: You would essentially be borrowing money from yourself because the governing board of Pelican Bay Municipal Services Taxing District is the County Commission. I think Commissioner Saunders may have a Point and then I've got two others, also. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: Commissioner Saunders? COMMISSIONER SA[]NDERS: Mr. Young, just preliminarily in terms of our meeting with you it's certainly not a burden for us to be here. You mentioned that in your opening remarks. MR. YOUNG: It's a chance that we have your OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 31 undivided attention and that we appreciate. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: As a matte'r of fact, I don't think there's any reporters here and there certainly aren't any TV cameras so that may give us an opportunity to have a workshop when we're finished with this so we can talk freely about different things. It's definitely not a burden. I think it's certainly a privilege and a pleasure for us to come here, meet with you and the other board members and the citizens of Pelican Bay to try to work out some problems. In general, we will direct our staff -- I'm sure I can speak for the entire Board when I say this, we will dirmct our staff to work with you and the advisory board on all of the issues that you've raised. There are some significant legal questions that you raised when you start talking about borrowing money from the county. You mentioned one when you said we don't have any legal identity so we can't do this ourselves. That may also be an impediment to us being able to do it. I'm sure the commission will direct the County Attorney and the budget office to work with you to resolve those issues. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 32 I also want to let you know that I appreciate your sensitivity to the political issues. You mentioned the 11 new employees and the fact that we can call these municipal service taxing -- municipal employees and perhaps avoid some of the criticism that we may be subjected to by the media. That type of criticism really is not of any major concern. We have to have employees to do the job. If we need 11 new employees because of this new program, then regardless of what criticism there may come from it I don't think anybody on the commission would be particularly concerned. MR. YOUNG: Well, I guess it's important to us that we don't convey the message to our neighbors that you're doing anything special for us that you' re not doing for everywhere else. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I understand that and I appreciate that. So I think what I'd like to suggest to the Commission is that we direct the County Attorney and the budget office to meet with Mr. Young and the advisory board fairly quickly to start talking about some of the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 33 legal issues associated with the refunding or the payoff of that bond issue and also to investigate a different assessment methodology for next year. I think you're going to need to start working on that fairly quickly. MR. YOUNG: We've already done some preliminary work. There has been a unit assessment developed, but with the time constraints we weren't in a position to bring it forward. Our consultant Jim Ward has the ability, has the staff, to do this in-house. We had talked maybe initially about going to Miller, Barton for a consulting basis on this but the other possibility's to do it in-house. So we've been over this so much with Jim that if the staff and Jim could sort of be instructed to work together on this thing, I think that the answers can be generated. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I suspect that after we pass the budget resolution we'll take up the issue of making sure staff works with you on that. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Just to follow up on that, a I {~'~" question about whether you had budgeted any monies for a I~.'~ "consultant" to develop the new methodology, are you OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 IIIl_. I I J . III I _ ~1 II _ III II . i . I 34 assuming that this is going to be done with existing staff or have you in fact in your budget set forth some funds for that purpose? MR. YOUNG: There's nothing shown specifically, to my knowledge, in the budget for that particular purpose. However, there is, I think, some contingencies that would make a reasonable amount of money available to us somewhere between let's say 10 and $20,000. We couldn't exceed a top of 20,000 for developing this program. I mean, it just isn't here, but I think there is some contingencies that-- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: In your presentation I wasn't quite sure that I understood when you hoped to be able to implement a change in the methodology in terms of -- would it be next fiscal year 93/94; is that what you're looking at? MR. YOUNG: When the tax notices go out like they did three weeks ago, they would go out showing the new methodology. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: So you're talking about fiscal year 93/94? MR. YOUNG: That' s right. J OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTYt NAPLES, FL 33962 35 C~AIRMAN VOLPE.' On the 11 employees who would be providing the right-of-way services, in terms of chain of command, Mr. Dorrill, who would these employees be accountable to, Mr. Conrecode or -- MR. DORRILL: No, in this particular instance they would be employees of the district and they would report to what is contemplated to be a contract district manager. You'll recall that earlier in the year we had proposed revising or modifying your organizational chart to show Mr. Ward and his company as contract manager, in a sense similar to the contract that you have with me. And then in turn the district manager reports to the County Manager. And in this instance he has had the level of division and administrator and I'm not contemplating any different. Day to day he typically reports to the Assistant County Manager or the Assistant to the County Manager for just operation and coordination. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I understand how these employees would be shown for purposes of our budget, but they are in fact county employees; is that correct? MR. DORRILL: They would in fact be on the county OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 36 commission's payroll paid out of the fund that is the Pelican Bay Improvement District. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Can you just necessarily bury them that way? MR. DORRILL: Well, I don't think anyone's intending to bury them. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, a statement was made we wouldn't have to show them as coun~.y employees. MR. DORRILL: You'll recall that last year I made the same point that Mr. Young is making that there are essentially two types of county government. There's what I call general government. Those are the employees and the programs that are paid for with property taxes, county-wide or unincorporated area property taxes. And we nhowod last year and we' re proposing to show again this year the budget in two forms. We'll have a budget for general government and then we'll have a budget for special revenue funds. And among other special revenue funds there's Pelican Bay Services District and the county water and sewer district and there will be employees that are shown for the solid ~~'. waste fund because all of those are special revenues, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962~}~, 37 special fee type funds. Invariably, some reporter from the Naples Daily News is going to want to know what's the total county budget and what's the total number of employees. And typically we don't tell them that, we let them find that out for themselves. But we began last year distinguishing between general government and special revenue funds. C~AIRMAN VOLPE~ Organizationally though, are you satisfied with an organization where you've got 11 new employees who are really day-to-day employees who are reporting to Mr. Ward's company, or is there someone who generally within your organization is going to have oversight responsibility for all of these MSTUs? MR. DORRILL.' Generally within the overall county aspect they would be shown under the project management -- Office of Project Management, that is Mr. Conrecode. And that's shown within the executive offices of the County Manager. In addition to my office there's the budget office and project management office, so within our table of organization they'll be shown that way. But in terms of who's paying for those employees, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 38 it'll be shown out of this particular special revenue fund and not county property taxes. COMMISSIONER ~ASSE: Well, I understand that, but that means we still get 11 more employees. MR. DORRILL: Well, you will and that's why I say invariably in spite of the efforts to reduce employees and to consolidate some departments that the bottom line in this instance will show an increase of 11, but as Mr. Young indicated to you it needs to be footnoted or have an asterisk there to explain in this instance why it is that way. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Anybody ever read that? MR. DORRILL: Well, the County Commission does and I think those people that follow the government closely do. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: On the median beautification, Mr. Young's aware on Marco Island and in Golden Gate we've experienced some difficulties finding a suitable contractor who is consistent in terms of the work that's been performed and there's been some general discussions about bringing that entire service in-house. And so this may be the genesis of that actually happening. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 39 COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: I think there's some correlation between the fleet management move that we made whereby we brought it in-house and that was a little different because we showed a considerable gain in bringing it in-house, but there certainly is a correlation between the two and I think people understand what we're attempting to do when you bring outside contractors' service inside. That's a cost. COMMISSIONER ~ASSE: You realize, Mr. Young, what we're talking about is possibly taking this over by the county. And I trust-- MR. YOUNG: We already -- COMMISSIONER ~ASSE: I trust, if I may, that the Pelican Bay development will understand. MR. YOUNG: The only thing we've asked is that when the time comes, and it will, that our in-house staff may be the fastest growing in this nature in the county that - and you do use us - that we be credited in some way because our MS~d District is set out here at the -- in other words, once these people go out of the district we have to have some kind of credit back to our district. And so that would be the only -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 40 COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: That's understandable. That's only fair. COMMISSIONER HASSE: It would simply go away from you and we'd absorb that; is that correct? MR. DORRILL: You would but you would probably continue to maintain the taxing district for the purpose of raising-- MR. YOUNG: An example would be we'd like to some day beautify our median out front but we've already looked into the fact that, and Commissioner Volpe's helped us, that our district only goes to the road. And as far as our district maintaining that median out there, we can't do it unless we expand our district. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: At one of our workshops we have tentatively budgeted monies to address the median maintenance from Laurel Oak up to Gulf Park Drive. MR. YOUNG: So our people could do it just as long as we get some kind of credit back so that the people of Pelican Bay know that the money they're spending is within the geographic municipal taxing district. MR. DORRILL: The only other comment that I had with respect to the early retirement of the bonds is So ~ OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 41 something that C~nmissioner Saunders said that the staff through the finance committee could certainly evaluate -- two things come immediately to mind, taking advantage of either the county's line of credit to accelerate the retirement there or perhaps the county's commercial paper program that we participate in through the Florida Association of Counties. And as long as the necessary legal instruments were there to guarantee the repayment to ourselves, I think that can be quite a good novel approach that would enable them to then effectuate the change in the storm water methodology for proportioning the cost. MR. YOUNG: You'd certainly be saving the residents of Pelican Bay a bundle of money over the next few years. So that we would always appreciate. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: A million four did you say, Bernie? MR. YOUNG: Well, I'm rounding everything. COMMISSIONER SHANA~AN: Yeah, well, $200,000 a year. MR. YOUNG: But, you know, we've got what, ten years to go on these bonds and we're paying two hundred OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 42 on principal plus interest and we're taking that same amount of money and retiring these in three years. The two ways of doing it before everybody thinks we're talking fairy tales, you've got to know we're going from an eight percent interest rate to a five percent interest rate and we're using a million dollars worth of proceeds that's kept, you know, kept back on us that we're releasing. So those are the two factors that should allow this to work. COMMISSIONER IlASSE: And a million dollars of county money. MR. YOUNG: Well, you're transferring it and we're going to get it back to you with interest a little more than you' re currently getting. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Mr. Young, while you're standing there, I'd be remiss if I didn't compliment you and the other members of the advisory group for the good Job you have done and your spirit of cooperation. And hopefully you've seen the same in return from the county staff. I think we've worked well together and we're charting some untried waters and I think it has -- I hope everyone feels that it's progressing as it should. And OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 43 you have provided the leadership that that group has required and thank you very much on behalf of the Board of County Commissioners. (Applause from the audience.) CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Are there any other people who would like to address the Board? Yes, sir, if you want to -- MR. JURACEK: I have a question. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: for the record. MR. JURACEK: You just need to identify yourself My name's Lou Juracek on Ridgewood Drive, resident here since '82. What is the total cost per year that we pay to help with the maintenance of this area? MR. WARD: The total budget for next year for debt service on the prior PBID bonds, the right-of-way program, the water management operations, is $1,262,800. And then for your street lighting system the total budget for next year is $174,100. MR. JURACEK: What is the cost specifically for the landscaping care on all of the area right-of-ways? MR. WARD: The right-of-way represents an OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 44 assessment of around $633,000 for next year. MR. JURACEK: Here's the reason I ask: I don't think we're being very creative about cost management in this area. For instance, every single-family resident takes care of their property all the way out to the street. That doesn't happen when we talk about condominiums and golf courses and villas, nothing. We let the total system take care of that. I think we should be more creative and say, Look, Mr. Condominium, you take care of your property to the street line, then the system takes care of the right-of-way. It's not very creative in cost management. MR. WARD: I think that's exactly what Mr. Young had mentioned to you earlier. Clearly the community through the years and specifically this year and next year we' re seeing a growth within this community such that a straight acreage based assessment is no longer the preferable method of assessment for this community and clearly that is the major focus that we just got done speaking about for handling the assessment methodologies for next year to evaluate that and maybe take into consideration exactly the type of comment that you just i,~~ · OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 45 made such that we can more appropriately determine how the costs should be allocated to the various unit owners. COMMISSIONER RASSE: Mr. Ward, I think what this gentleman is speaking about, I don't want to speak for you, but where is this 11 people that you're going to put on maintain, just the medians, or are they going to maintain the right-of-way between the street and the condominiums, which isn't being done at the present -- which wouldn't be done if it went the other way. MR. WARD: The right-of-way of Pelican Bay, specifically the map that I've put up here, you can see the major arterial road that runs through Pelican Bay is Pelican Bay Boulevard. There's 120 foot width of right-of-way. We maintain the median strip plus the edge of the curb to the bike path within Pelican Bay. Being on the other side of the bike path is the responsibility of the private developer. maintain. COMMISSIONER HASSE: That is his property to Condominium, also? MR. WARD: Condominium, whoever it may be, home owner association, commercial property, whoever it may be. Generally, that's how we maintain it. The bike path OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 46 gives us a uniformity in terms of the overall maintenance, but we have generally seen, specifically addressed that comment is that many times you get -- you don't get uniformity in maintenance when you have 10, 15, 20 different maintenance companies maintaining out to the back of the curb. So we maintain to the back of the bike path within the Pelican Bay community consistently for the last 10 or 12 years, and that provides a great deal of uniformity within this community. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Do you understand that and is that a fact? MR. JURACEK: I understand, but I don't think it's a creative way to take care of the cost. I think the property owner should take care of the costs to the street. COMMISSIONER RASSE: Well, evidently what's being done is the property owners should maintain his property ~: '0 up ~o the bike ~th. ~at's what I'm ~ng told here. ~*~:~ ~AI~ VOLPE: Well, the distinction ~ing that's ~~j~/.'~: public right-of-way I guess is what you're -- that's the ~J'~'~' right-of-way. And your point would ~ private pro~rty ~}'~' ~ner~ ~hould maintain th~ public r~ht-of-wa~ ,nd -- :. 47 MR. JURACEK: Sure. We do it in our individual residences. I don't stop at my lot line, say, Okay, take care of the rest of it. I think that's a way to save a lot of money. What you' re saying, I don't see. I watch people and they go all the way to the lot line most of the time. COMMISSIONER HASSE: All the way to the street line you're talking about. MR. JURACEK~ From the street to the right-of-way line. Which is what from the street, about 40 feet? C~AIRMAN VOLPE: I guess one of the concerns might be I think as part of the development of this methodology those may be some of the factors that might be considered, but I think you've got an issue of public right-of-way and also in terms of the uniformity of maintenance in terms of, you know, if you've got one group of people who are maintaining not only the median but also the right-of-way you're going to have a certain aesthetic appearance within your community. You might not get -- if the fellow next door doesn't have the same kind of a lawn mower like you do and he doesn't fertilize it at the same time and so on and so forth. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 48 MR. JURACEK: You can ride up and down the streets and I don't see much deviation from good to bad. It all looks good to me. That's what I'm talking about. There's a lot more creative things you could do with cost management. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: At the point in time when there's a new methodology, we should present -- that will result in a public hearing being held; is that correct? MR. WARD: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: And it will be an opportunity for all the residents of Pelican Bay to comment on the advantages and disadvantages of the methodologies are that are presented. Are there an~ other registered--yes, sir. MR. CURALDO: Tom Curaldo (phonetic) of Laurel Oaks. I have a comment in regard to the conformity in regard to mowing. There is really no conformity because when the condos do their lawns the opposite side of the sidewalks are not usually done on the same day so you always have different heights and different maintenance done all different times so that's another plus to that. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 49 Also, I have a c~ment in regard to the 11 employees. They would be county employees? CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Yes, sir. MR. CURALDO: If they do a subpar performance or Job, can they be replaced? CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Maybe the management would be replaced first before the actual employees but presumably if you've got an unsatisfactory employee, yes. I mean, they're subject to the rules of hiring and firing. MR. DORRILL: The county has a very aggressive, progressive discipline program and we hire and fire people 52 weeks out of the year. The county also is using a fairly unique pay-for-performance program to determine annual salary adjustments. And we use a scale based on the individual employee's work effort and productivity as opposed to an annual cost of living increase. This year, for example, our employees have received either a zero percent increase all the way up to eight percent increase based on that particular individual's contribution to the organization and their productivity in assessing the individual employee. So we don't OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 50 believe nor have we funded general wage adjustments in about four or five years now. And their individual increase is based on individual employee's contribution, and it works fairly well. sector. COMMISSIONER RASSE: Very similar to the private Mr. Dorrill, if I might add, does that mean that the special taxing district will be responsible for these increases according to what we determine or -- MR. DORRILL: It would be consistent with the adopted budget policy that is effective for all county commission employees and funds. COMMISSIONER RASSE: And the fringe benefits the same way ? MR. DORRILL: the budget? MR. WARD: Same way. Are the fringe benefits included in Yes, sir. MR. CURALDO: My question is -- the real point is whether or not it would be easier to change contractors if they're not doing a good job rather than a shake-up in the government. That's the only comments I have about OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 MR. DORRILL: You certainly could, and I'll let Mr. Ward elaborate. We've through the competitive selection and competitive bid process I believe we' re on probably our third contractor in as many years. And I don't think it's a point in this instance of how cheap or what the lowest bid is. It seems to me that the overall desire of the community is one of a quality of care and appearance, and in this instance I can tell you you will pay more than what a low bid private contractor could pay. And that's adjusting it for some of the start-up costs because we will be acquiring some operating capital equipment. And in this instance we acknowledge that is not the cheapest way to do it but on the advice of the citizens' advisory board here they're recommending that we develop permanent full-time employees and actually do the work ourselves as opposed to privatizing work. MR. CURALDO: Has a three-year forecast been done on that to see what the -- MR. WARD: I've not done a three-year forecast on it. I've done a forecast for fiscal year 1993 which is OFFICIAL OOURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 52 the next budget year that we're in. As I indicated to the advisory board in our meetings, this program, I think, is a way for which this community can maintain a level of consistency in terms of the maintenance of this program. Clearly the one issue that this community has said is we want consistency and quality in the maintenance of this program. And clearly as Mr. Dorrill said, you're not going to get that with a low bidder. This is not the cheapest way in which to do it and that's clear from the n~bers that we've taken a look at. I think from our prospective Just reasonably looking at it we're going to be able to meet the levels of service that this community is desiring in terms of providing an overall level of maintenance for this right-of-way program without substantive changes in the costs going into the future. And I think the numbers that we've put together as I indicated when I started this presentation was that we spent inordinate amounts of time in terms of looking at the costs in detail and I think we've come up with what I think is a fairly conservative number in terms of OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, ~'L 33969- 53 implementing this program for next year. I don't see substantial changes in these numbers happening in the future years. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Are there any other questions? COMMISSIONER HASSE: Yes. Mr. Ward, all of the equipment, all the fertilizer and everything will be provided by Pelican Bay? MR. WARD: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER IIASSE~ We will not provido anything except the bodies? MR. DORRILL: We're going to provide everything, but again only through those funds that are raised locally - and by "locally" I mean within the boundaries of Pelican Bay community - but when the property sticker is put on that lawn mower it will say, Property of Board of County Commissioners. And when the employee gets a check it's going to be on the payroll of the account of the Board of County Commissioners. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I just asked Mr. Ward and he said they were going to provide all of the equipment and -- MR. DORRILL: What he's saying-- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 54 COMMISSIONER HASSE: Wait a minute. If they're providing all the equipment, the county is not providing equipment so it's Pelican Bay's equipment. MR. DORRILL: Well, he's saying "they," but in this connotation "they" is us. MR. WARD: "They" is Collier County, sir. MR. DORRILL: As we're all in this together. MR. WARD: We're all in this together. COMMISSIONER HASSE: That's all I can say. MR. CURALDO: I have two other questions. If the county does have cuts in their budget across the board and we are under the county, will our maintenance be cut? MR. DORRILL: MR. CURALDO: can cut it. MR. DORRILL: Well, in this -- You will have control of it so you In this instance from my perspective those would be purely arbitrary cuts because you through your advisory board are expressing the level of service. And in this case the level of service that is desired is to have and pay for a full-time staff to be here 52 weeks out of the year five or slx days a week depending on the schedule that s selected doing your ~wn maintenance. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 55 MR. CURALDO: If we're part of the county and you are dictated by the state for cuts and it comes down to you and you have to cut 10 percent, 20 percent -- MR. DORRILL.. In this instance that's why I said that would be purely arbitrary because this is your money and we would not be subject to any cuts as a result of a reduction in state shared revenues that we might get for general government. And that's why I said increasingly I'm trying to get the commission and the community to distinguish between general government and special revenue government. This is a totally self-supporting special revenue aspect of the County Commission and it would not be under any revenue shortfall that we might experience as a result of a reduced county-wide revenue receipt or reduction in state revenue. MR. CURALDO: I'm a little leery on whether or not you could since you have control of the money to cut it. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, we will have fixed the budget for 1992/93 after an appropriate public hearing, and those monies are allocated and budgeted for a specific purpose. We'll have the same type of a hearing OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 56 next year for fiscal year 93/94, same type of a public hearing and it'll be, you know, based on the recommendations from the advisory board as well as the input that we receive from the citizenry at what level those ad valorem taxes will be fixed to support the road right-of-way maintenance program. MR. SMUDGE: We will be assessed for it and we will pay for it, Pelican Bay. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: That's correct. And if this gentleman or his neighbors object to it and say, We don't want to pay that much, then it'll be the determination that will be made based upon input from the advisory board as to whether the millage will increase or perhaps decrease if that be the will of the residents within the Pelican Bay community. So you've got some direct control over what it is as Mr. Dorrill's pointed out -- MR. CURALDO: There's a lot of gray areas. COMMISSIONER RASSE: I agree with you. MR. CURALDO: I have one other question in regard to the assessments for the water. There is no incentive for the condominiums and even the houses, if you have a OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES~ FL 33962 57 house, to save water, we have a minimum charge we're hit with. I'd like to know what that minimum charge -- why there is a minimum charge. I'm new to the area and the condos get billed for a certain amount like Laurel Oaks get hit for 1.2 million gallons and we use about 700,000. I mean, I can put water savers on there and save you more money; in the rainy season, shut it down. My house, I get hit for $60 whether I have the water on or not. could -- I have a water saver on that and a lot of times when it rains it doesn't go on. I'm just a little confused why -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Could you answer that question, Mr. Ward? MR. WARD: Yes. He's talking about the water and sewer system, specifically. The effluent rate that is established for this community for the lawn irrigation, and remember in Pelican Bay we have a dual distribution system in Pelican Bay that goes to the whole of the residential community. And each of the residents waters their lawn they have a separate meter for that and they're billed separately for that effluent or irrigation OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 58 water as we call it. There is a minimum monthly service charge irrespective of the use of the effluent for all of the residents in Pelican Bay. And what this gentleman's saying is that we also have a flip side, a regressive rate structure in that on the high side of use you get billed at 2.2 or 2.3 times the normal irrigation rate. SO what he is saying is that there t~ no Incentive for cutting down your water. You get a minimum monthly service charge irrespective of use, but included in that is a certain volume of water which you can use and if you use below that you still get the minimum monthly service char ge. It was specifically designed by the prior Pelican Bay Improvement District board in order to maintain a minimum level of revenue necessary in order to operate that irrigation system for this community. That's why it was derived a number of years ago and that's in sum and substance what it is. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Are you indicating to me the meters don't mean anything then? MR. WARD: The meters do mean a lot because they -- OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 ° Ii:i:':' 59 the individual resident is billed for his specific use: but if that use falls below a certain level he still gets a minimum monthly service charge. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Is there some thought that perhaps some new rates may be established at some later point in time? MR. WARD: I think -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Or rate structure? MR. WARD: Maybe utilities might want to help, but I think the Board's direction when we dissolved the Pelican Bay Improvement District was that we would merge those systems when there was parity on the rates. And I think that's an ongoing process being looked at, and when that occurs is when we should take a look at making those kinds of revisions to that rate structure. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Commissioner Goodnight? COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: I just wanted to concur to some of the concerns in the audience about the advisory board and this commission cutting -- I think that over the years that this board has consistently agreed with the advisory boards unless there was a group of citizens that was actually paying the bill came to us and said, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 [, [[][ [[ I Il l[ [ Illll Illll Il [I [ill 6O No, this is not what we want. And so I think -- you know, I don't see that there's going to be a problem in the future as long as the citizens and the advisory board agrees and then brings that recommendation to the Board. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Well, I can see that there's some questions here and some of them should be addressed and I think that's your job. MR. WARD: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Are there any other members of the public who -- yes, sir. MR. JOHNSON: I'm Harold Johnson from the Glencove. I have a couple questions for Mr. Ward. One is, we have a governing body in the area, Naples, which is going the opposite way. They're going out and contracting, for example, with their street crew, and you're going just the opposite way. Have you called in -- you said Jacaranda. I'm not familiar with them. Have you called them and told them what you expect from them or are you dealing directly with the owner and taking them around and showing them all these things? MR. WARD: Clearly we have, but as Mr. Dorrill OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 61 referenced we've had a number of contractors in this project in as many years as this contract has been under the Board of County Commissioners. And when you're a public body bidding a particular job, not necessarily the lowest bid is always the best bid. And in this community as Mr. Young referenced in his remarks was the fact that as this community grows, the level of service that this community desires increases. And clearly one of our goals from the advisory committee's perspective is try to maintain a high level of maintenance responsibility for this community and some consistency in the maintenance of this product. We've got a fairly large right-of-way system and we've got a multi-million dollar investment in this landscaping program and the question is whether it's worth 250 or $300 a year per unit in order to maintain a multi-million dollar investment for this community From my perspective I clearly think the answer's yes to that question, and I think from the discussions that the advisory board has had we believe that we can maintain a higher level of service and a more consistent OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 l? 62 level of service not having to go through some of the what I call the rollercoaster effects of having to deal with outside contractors. MR. JOHNSON: Does Jacaranda know that you' re that unhappy with them? MR. WARD: I don't think the question is really whether we're that unhappy with Jacaranda Landscape or any other contractor, ! think the issue is trying to increase and provide a more consistent level of service to the Pelican Bay community, and that's what this proposed budget tries to do. ! don't want to impugn Jacaranda's reputation or any other landscaping contractor's reputation but clearly we have -- traditionally had problems with the outside contractor services in this community, whether that was Jacaranda or anyone else. And our focus has been to try and provide a more consistent, higher level of maintenance for this community moving into the future. then? MR. JOHNSON: MR. WARD: MR. McMURPHY: You don't think that they could do it My experience in Collier County -- They might not get the bid. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 3~962 , [ ,,,, ~ ,[[1[ Il I I I I I Il Ill Illllll I Il 11 [] --- _ _ 63 MR. YOUNG: They may not get the bid. MR. WARD: They may not get the bid for next year. It may be another contractor. I think as Mr. Dorrill referenced you've seen problems throughout other areas in Collier County. We've had problems in this community. What we' re trying to do is put together a katter program for similar dollars as what you have spent in the prior years. MR. DORRILL: cost and benefits. And we continue to do an analysis of For example, the entire grounds maintenance at the government complex in East Naples is performed by a private contractor. And I think you'd agree with me the general condition and appearance of the grounds maintenance at the County Government Complex is very good and we've gotten an often competitive price for that. But that on as about as big a scale as we do it is we get very good, very competitive bids for the work there. And when you compare that amount of maintenance to the amount of maintenance that goes on here and in addition to the right-of-ways there's the maintenance associated with the street lighting program, water OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 64 management lakes and your water management system, our experience has been it's hard to find a private ground maintenance contractor who is capitalized to the extent of where he can physically do and perform that amount of work. And I don't-- I think to the extent that most local grounds maintenance companies tend to be very small mom and pop type operations, we've seen typically in this application that they're quickly overwhelmed and they're not capitalized or able to beef up to assume that amount of work. MR. JOHNSON: I was just hoping that you do have some standards and criteria as you said for your people and also that the people we have now are aware of them also. MR. WARD: have standards-- MR. JOHNSON: And you don't want people on the payroll that we say well here we go and it's not any Clearly I think the answer is yes and we I certainly would be concerned better. COMMISSIONER HASSE: whether or not Pelican Bay is satisfied with the people OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 65 the county hires to do the job and I think that's what you're relating to there more or less. MR. JOHNSON: Well, I live in a small complex and we have the thing landscaped as Nell Dorrill's just said for about four years and they do a nice job. They're not big enough to do Pelican Bay. They've had, you know, a dozen people and all kinds of equipment. But I think the outfit that you have today is large and you had one a couple years and they left also. I don't know if maybe we're demanding too much or we are not expressing what we expect from these people and staying with them or -- I just hate to see you go the way you're going without really giving private enterprise in the area a chance to have a go at it. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: As Mr. Dorrill's commented, the issue has come up in a number of different contexts. It came up at the Golden Gate Median Beautification District and it's come up on Marco Island and what we've experienced -- I think the last time that we went out to competitive bids it may have been on Marco Island or it may have been in Golden Gate, we had only one responsive bidder. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 66 And it's very difficult to find anyone locally as Mr. Dorrill's pointed out who's capitalized and who has got either the capital investment or the men and equip~ent to handle certainly an area of Pelican Bay or Marco Island or Golden Gate where there are some very sizeable medians. MR. JOHNSON: Does Jacaranda, for example, have a written contract? You say it expires in October or something? MR. WARD: Their current contract expires in February of 1993. MR. JOHNSON: On that basis knowing what kind of income's coming in, of course, they could expand and add equipment for anything you might want to have. I just bring the thing up because we are very happy with the group that we have and I don't kn~ whether -- I Just see what the City of Naples is doing is going the opposite way. MR. McMURPHY: in-house for years. Not in landscaping. They've been And I don't know what their future plans are but they've found -- excuse me, my name's McMurphy. And they still do that landscaping in-house. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 67 CHAIRMAN VOLPE = comments or questions? room. MR. WAL KE R: Waterford. Thank you. Are there any other Yes, sir, in the back of the My name's Bob Walker. I live in Is there some way we can have these meetings during the season? I think you do a disservice to the rest of the people who are obviously out of town and cannot be here. Is there a way we can do that? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: That's kind of an interesting question. The Florida legislature, it must have been decades ago, decided to require budgets to be sutmitted by a certain time. Probably to keep the northerners from having their say in it. We have to have our budget hearings in the summertime and we have to have the final budget hearings in September. The budget has to be approved prior to October 1 of each year. Couldn't we have the hearings in April ~LR. WALKER: or March? MR. WARD: As the commissioner said, the statute specifically requires that this hearing be held between OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 C 68 the June 15th and September 15th date. So statutorily the Florida legislature is controlling this particular public hearing and that's the dates -- those -- that's the window for this particular public hearing. COMMISSIONER ~ASSE~ But there would be no reason in the world why you couldn't have or -- MR. WALKER~ That's what I'm saying. a meeting in April COMMISSIONER HASSE~ And push them in that direction and tell all the people that you're going to -- MR. SMUDGE: The public is invited to come to every one of our advisory committee meetings and we'd be delighted to have them. MR. WARD: Correct. COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Walker, Just -- are you aware that this advisory -- MR. WALKER: Obviously I was not. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: The advisory board meets on a regular monthly basis and this budget has been workshopped by your advisory board as a representative of your community. So there is an opportunity in advance of this public hearing for you and your neighbors to have OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 some 69 input into the development of the budget. If in fact there is a desire that perhaps the Board of County Commissioners schedule one of its meetings, a regular meeting, an evening meeting, for the residents of Pelican Bay, that's another issue. But the primary purpose of our meeting this evening is for the adoption of the budget. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Where's the notice of those meetings published? CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Mr. Young, where do you publish the notice? Do you have a notice in the Naples Daily News? MR. YOUNG: They' re at the foundation and they' re published at our offices in the Sun Bank building. They're on a Wednesday afternoon at three o'clock. Our next meeting, assuming that everything is ordered this evening, will be the third Wednesday in September. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Do you distribute to the residents of Pelican Bay a schedule of those meetings? And if you don't, could you do that so it could be mailed out to all of the residents so they could mark their calendars? MR. YOUNG: Sure. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 70 MR. SMUDGE: MR. YOUNG: forth. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: meetings are. MR. YOUNG: It's in the foundation newsletter. In the foundation newsletter and so Then they'll know when the And there is -- there will be an opening for three members. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I was going to mention that later on. MR. YOUNG: So be sure to tell them how to get the information to you. CHAIrmAN VOLPE: Commissioner Goodnight? COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Just one cc~ment before we adopt the budget. Mr. Ward and the advisory board, I really think that this is going to work and I think that what you need to look at over the next year is the amount of money that we're going to end up saving by not -- by taking care of the chinch bugs and some of the other problems that have occurred over the last couple of years with our landscaping that we've lost so much in there because it either had not been taken care of or by the time you realized what was happening we had lost a number OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 71 of dollars in the foliage that was there. So I'm in support of this but I think that we're going to find over the next couple of years that we're probably going to end up saving money if it works the way that we hope it does. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I hope you can come to us next year and tell us how much money you've saved, Mr. Ward. MR. WARD: I'll wear a suit of armor. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Are there any other members of the public that wish to comment on the proposed budget of fiscal year 1992/937 (No response. ) COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, is there a public hearing that needs to be closed? MR. YOVANOVICH: Yes. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: I make a motion to close the public hearing. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Second. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor signify by saying aye. (A chorus of "Ayes.") OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33969 72 CHAIRMAN VOLPE: (No response.) C~AIRMAN VOLPE: Opposed? Motion passes unanimously. Are we to take a motion now to adopt the -- MR. McNEES: There are three types of budgets in front of you. The ad valorem street lighting district budget you have seen only for workshop purposes. You'll approve that in September. The same goes for the utilities enterprise fund budget that you saw, will also be approved by you in September. The only thing that you need to do today is to approve the resolution adopting the special assessment to fund the water management portion of the budget and the debt service fund. COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: I'll make a motion that we approve that. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I'll second. MR. McNEES: There's apparently one change Mr. Ward has for you on that. MR. WARD: I just passed out the revisions to your resolution and for the record let me Just go through those with you. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 73 COMMISSIONER HASSE: When did these come about? MR. WARDs The changes? COMMISSIONER ~]ASSE: Yes. MR. YOVANOVICH: Mr. Chairman, just a point of clarification, I think we Just addressed the first item on your agenda. We haven't gotten to the second item yet. We probably need to open the public hearing on the assessment roll itself even though the discussion obviously went to all of those things. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: The question was did we need a motion to adopt this tentative budget and the answer to that was no. Mr. McNees said that this is essentially a workshop on the budget and that this will be -- this budget will be finally adopted when we adopt -- MR. DORRILL: At the second hearing in September. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: September. MR. McNEES: -- at the second hearing in The only things that become fixed after your adoption of this resolution are the funding sources for the portion of the budget that's funded by the special assessment. So at that point that budget is fixed. The other portions of it will not be until OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 74 September. CHAIRMAN VOLPE ~ agenda? MR. McNEES: Which is the next Atem on our Correct. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: So the next item on the agenda is a public hearing with respect to the resolution concerning the preliminary assessment roll as the final assessment roll and adopting same as the non-ad valorem assessment roll for purposes of utilizing the uniform method of collection. And is that -- Mr. Ward, do you want to bring to the Board's attention some changes in the resolution th~n to adopt that preliminary assessment roll? MR. WARD: Correct. Just for your record, and I'll submit for the clerk's office a copy of the Wilson, Miller, Barton & Peek preliminary special assessment report for Pelican Bay Services Division, storm water management operation and maintenance, debt service and right-of-way maintenance and landscaping and irrigation. In sum and substance the assessment report recommends the utilization of an acreage methodology for OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 75 the assessment for the operation and maintenance of the system as I previously Just described. That is embodied in the report and that is what the rolls that were sent out to these individual unit owners addressed. The resolution that you have before you I have a few changes on page four, to section three. In sum and substance, the change is to provide for the assessment to be collected in accordance with 197.3632 and 197.3635 which authorize the -- these assessments to be placed on the tax bill and to be payable in the same time and manner and subject to the same discounts and penalties of the normal county tax bills. The original resolution that was sent to you provided for a different assessment bill to be sent out and provided that they could be paid in full prior to them being placed on the normal county tax bill. So with that, those are my only comments in the resolution. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: This is a public hearing on the preliminary assessment roll. If there are any people in the audience who wish to comment on the preliminary assessment roll? (No response.) OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLESt FL 33962 76 CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Just one question of either Mr. Meins (phonetic) or Mr. Ward, on the preliminary assessment roll Just for purposes of my understanding, on the -- there are no page numbers, but on the assessment roll itself it appears that there are unplatted parcels and it indicates that the library, EMS, the North Beach facility, are those actually assessed? ~tR. WARD: Yes, sir, they are. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: So the library is paying some part of an assessment for these services and so is EMS? Of course we don't have an EMS facility yet, but that's county-owned property. MR. DORRILL: And the rationale being that they are part of the storm water management system and they benefit to the same proportion and extent that any other parcel would and in this case because they are non-ad valorem and special assessments we are paying and we budget to pay those-- our proportionate share of the cost. MR. WARD: That is also consistent, Commissioner, with the methodology that had been utilized over the last ten years. And the county -- either the EMS site or OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 77 library site or even the county parking lot have always paid their prorated share of the assessments that have been done in this community. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: At the point in time if there's a change in the methodology and you go to ad valorem, then will the government, owned properties be subject to the ad valorem? MR. WARD: Not under an ad valorem based tax. If we change to specifically an ad valorem based tax the county library site and parking lot and EMS site would be exempt for an ad valorem assessment or an ad valorem tax. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: the public hearing. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Thank you. I'll make a motion to close Second the motion. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Ail those in favor signify by saying aye. (A chorus of CHAIRMAN VOLPE: (No response.) CHAIRMAN VOLPE: "Ayes. ") Opposed? Motion passes unanimously. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 78 We need a motion then? COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: I make a motion, Mr. Chairman, to confirm the preliminary assessment roll as the final assessment roll and adopting same as the non-ad valorem assessment roll for the purpose of utilizing the uniform method of collection. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Second. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: I have a motion and a second. discussion on the motion? vote. Any (No response.) CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Hearing none I'll call for the All in favor signify by saying aye. (A chorus of "Ayes.") C~AIRMAN VOLPE: (No response. ) CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Opposed? The motion passes unanimously. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, on the other issue that was raised by Mr. Young concerning the cooperation between staff and developing new methodology, I'll make a motion to direct the County Attorney and the County Manager or his designee to work with the advisory board to develop and implement a new methodology if the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 ~ ?; CE' 79 advisory board elects to do so for collection of these fees in the next budget year. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Second the motion. CMAIRMAN VOLPE: And that includes, Commissioner Saunders, as well, the goal of trying to retire those 1979 water management bonds? COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I have Any further discussion on the motion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Hearing none I'll call for the vote. All in favor signify by saying aye. (A chorus of "Ayes.") CHAIRMAN VOLPE: (No response.) CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Opposed7 Yes. a motion then and a second. Motion passes unanimously. Before we adjourn, I had asked -- this is an opportunity for us to meet with the residents of Pelican Bay and I thought if there were any comments that the residents of Pelican Bay would like to bring to the Board's attention before we adjourn this may be an opportunity to do so. So if there are any of you who OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 80 have any comments or any questions of the Board while we' re here as it relates to your community on any subject, we've got a few minutes before we adjourn. Mr. Kane? MI(. KANE~ My namo's Patrick Kane. Tomorrow your board will face an issue of a 15-acre community park site which is on this map adjacent to the EMS and library. It's this parcel right here. That land was designated to be deeded over to the county in 1977 as part of the PUD or Planned Unit DeveloI~nent for Pelican Bay. And that was a wonderful document in urban development, urban planning, that was created as a negotiated document between Westinghouse Community in Naples and the State of Florida and Collier County. Certain commitments were made by the developer to provide that property and at the same time commitments were made by the county to in fact create that community park. It appears after the county received the deed for this land three weeks ago that the next week it was the intent of the administration of the county that this OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 81 property would be sent back to the developer for, I believe, a bid like 1.78 million dollars and the county would not fulfill its obligation to the Second District or to the northern portion of Collier County, the Pelican Bay, Naples Park, Pine Ridge areas and that is to develop the park that they were committed to since 1977. Over and above that and perhaps more germane to our conversation tonight because I think that's an issue that will be talked at a great length tomorrow is a commitment by the developer to create neighborhood parks. And that's also part of the PUD. And in the PUD - and I would suggest that all of you read this - it's a beautiful document and takes about 40 minutes to read and absolutely if you don't like it it'll cure your insomnia but in the PUD the developer was -- COMMISSIONER HASSE: I didn't hear that last remark. What did you say? MR. KANE: I said if you don't like it, it'll cure your insomnia. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I don't have any insomnia. MR. KANE: The PUD requires that the developer OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 82 would create neighborhood parks, independent of community parks. And the neighborhood parks -- the applicant, which is Westinghouse Community of Naples, would install the following improvements in each such park: One unlighted combination softball and soccer field backstop; one 5,000 square foot tot lot; two unlighted tennis courts and 20 paved parking spaces. To my recollection to date we have been given a neighborhood park which is right here which is called the Ridgewood Park. And what in fact that is is Just a drainage pond which I think you guys -- it has a fitness trail. It does not have 20 parking spaces or a 5,000 square foot tot lot or a combination softball or soccer field. There's another area with another drainage here and a confluent of cul de sacs that creates an area where there is a swingset that's just a little bit smaller than the one I have in my backyard and certainly not a 5,000 square foot tot lot. My efforts to find out when and if and ever the developer intends to create the neighborhood parks that are spelled out in the PUD have fallen on deaf ears. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 83 They feel that they -- they created a tennis facility at the Commons which was another requirement of the PUD but it satisfies in their mind the neighborhood parks. And in fact that it's not a tennis facility and if that's a neighborhood park where's my tennis facility? One of the things they' re required to do is to build the golf course which in fact they did and they're also required to put in a swimming pool. And to date I'm not aware of where that swimming pool is and haven't had a chance to use it. One of the things I'm very concerned about with these neighborhood parks and with this one community park, the 15 acres that you have -- and I was delighted to hear Debbie Cook indicate that she was going to exercise the school board's option for the property directly next to this 15 acres by -- which is this 20-acre site here. The school board intends to exercise their option to buy that property in anticipation of an elementary school. And again, the PUD document outlines that it was the intent of the County Commission in 1977 as well as the developer, as well as the State, that those OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 84 properties be confluent to take full advantage of the amenities 'of the school as well as the amenities of the park. westinghouse Community of Naples has the right to put 8600 housing units in three square miles, which is what Pelican Bay is. The City of Naples has 15,000 housing units, apartments, mobile homes and single-family homes in 12.7 square miles. The City of Naples has Fleischmann Park and Cambier Park as well as Lowdermilk Park. And I think it would be a tragedy to not allow us to have the full development of a park in the most intensely developed area of the county. COMMISSIONER HASSE: Who is "us"? MR. KANE: "Us" is anyone who lives in Collier County, first of all, because this is a community park. More specifically, the combination neighborhood park and community park and elementary school would obviously impact most readily on the neighborhood; number one, Pelican Bay; number two, Pine Ridge, Pelican Bay, Beachwalk, Vanderbilt Beach, Naples Park; and then the large tomato field that is across U.S. 41 because U.S. 41 and Airport Road and north of Vanderbilt Beach Road up 85 to Immokalee Road. That is all under anticipated develo~ent. And so the intensity of the development that's going to take place in this area Just continues to be impressive. COMMISSIONER HASSE: You were speaking of the 15 acres up there next to the library. MR. KANE: Well, I'm speaking of 15 acres plus the community or the neighborhood park acreage. I've been vecy frustrated with the response from the developer, if you will. And what I'm also afraid of is it's been our calculation that other than your 15 acres that you presently hold - and we'll discuss that some - and the 20 acres that the school board intends to option on, it's my understanding there's only six other acres in Pelican Bay that are not committed to something else. CHAIRMAN VOLPEt Dr. Kane, as a result of some of the discussions that have taken place to date, I believe the County Manager and/or his staff is attempting to make a determination as to whether there is compliance with the PUD as it relates to neighborhood parks; is that correct, Mr. Dorrill? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 86 MR. DORRILL: (Nods head.) CHAIRMAN VOLPE: So I'm not sure that we have an answer back yet from our compliance services or our development services as to the issue as to whether there is in fact compliance with the PUD as it relates specifically to neighborhood parks. MR. KANE: Excellent. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: So we should have that information, and it should be available-- MR. KANE: Will it be available to you tomorrow or -- CHAIR/4AN VOLPE: Mr. Dorrill, would that information be available tomorrow? MR. DORRILL: Probably not. Not for the purpose -- and I'm not assuming that a final decision on this issue will be made tomorrow. This was intended to an informational item. MR. KANE: Tomorrow's meeting? MR. DORRILL: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS-. So the intent of the staff and the Pelican Bay is that there will not be a decision on that issue tomorrow? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 87 MR. DORRILL: There could be some direction, but in terms of a decision that's why I've indicated no. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The reason I asked that, there's been a lot of people that have asked the item be continued. I guess we can assure those people that at least as far as tomorrow's hearing is concerned we'll hear the debate but there will be a second public hearing some time in the future to hear that before there's any final decision made. MR. DORRILL: Yeah, I've talked to no fewer than four people today who read something in the newspaper over the weekend and even by the doctor's remarks that the County Manager has rushed this deal or the administration is proposing to sell for 1.7 million dollars. I've not spoken to any reporters from the Naples Daily News. There is a gentleman who lives in Imperial Golf Estates who needs to have some of his facts straight and a reporter of the Daily News has fabricated that particular story. For the purpose of the record -- and I'd be happy to provide to you, Doctor, a copy of the staff report for OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 88 this item tomorrow and it indicates and I'll read this just two sentences, The site is valued as of October of 1990 by the county's real property department at over two and a half million dollars. That's the staff's recommended value of that site as of October of 1990. The County Manager's recommendation in this regard is that the County Commission authorize the staff to proceed with the sale of the Bluebill property, which is totally outside the confines of Pelican Bay, and determines disposition of the 15-acre property within Pelican Bay and indicate should staff feel negotiations will not be successful planning for alternative uses should proceed. Where the Naples Daily News or anybody has conjured up the recommendation that I'm trying to do something to benefit westinghouse Communities is outside of any official staff report or any conversation that I've had with the Chairman because frankly I haven't spoken to any other member of the commission about this, what I consider to be routine staff item to get some future direction. And that's all that's intended. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: In that regard I think, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUllTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 89 Commissioner Saunders, you're absolutely correct. I had probably some of the same conversations that you've had and it is as I understood the item to be a discussion item for Mr. Olliff and Public Services to bring us up to date about some of the issues that you've identified as well as some of the other issues as relates particularly to the Bluebill and boat ramp site. MR. KANE: Right. I believe in defense of Mr. Richardson who you named or did not name who lives up in Imperial, when I read the article what I assume is he gave this executive summary of yours to the-- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Is that the one for tomorrow? MR. KANE: June 16th, 1992. And it just recommends -- that the recommendation of Collier County staff is that they continue to negotiate with Westinghouse for the sale of the 15-acre property. And then we obviously were not interested in seeing the discussion continue or the sale take place. That's really to me -- but the interpretation comes from this piece of information. MR. DORRILL: What you need to know, and I'll be happy to give -- this is what's in the printed agenda for 33962 90 tomorrow. It doesn't say anything about negotiating for the sale. In this instance it says, The Board of County Commissioners should determine the disposition of that 15 acres. COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: The confusion, and Dr. Kane is 100 percent correct, the confusion is because of paper work generated by the county, not because of some vague articles in the newspaper. The executive summary that Mr. Kane's referring to specifically says to negotiate the sale. That's fairly clear. It's not a negative reflection on you or anybody, but I think that Mr. Richardson's interpretation was very fair. But at least the issue in terms of tomorrow has been resolved without -- MR. DORRILL: That's not my opinion. I hope Mr. Richardson will b~ there tomorrow and maybe I can set him and the newspaper straight. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: For purposes of this meeting it is in my view and I think Commissioner Saunders has indicated it is a discussion item and there may be some general direction but in terms of specific decisions I'm not anticipating that that will happen tomorrow, I'm not OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 91 anticipating anyway. COMMISSIONER HASSE.' I might say it's clearly spelled out in this report to the commission for tomorrow -- and I'm Just curious where you would get -- is that an official document you have? MR. KANE: It's a copy of something. I've got copies of letters that have flared back and forth all over the place for the last two years on the negotiations of the sale or at least the last year and it's -- the intent that appeared from the different pieces of property as far away as 951 and U.S. 41 to be swapped out or as far away as Big Cypress Elementary School and that to be swapped away and-- COMMISSIONER HASSE: We' re -- MR. KANE: It doesn't seem to fit the -- MR. DORRILL: Westinghouse has certainly represented to us an interest to acquire that property or swap that property and there have been a great deal of correspondence to both me and the Chairman in that regard but there's nothing contained in this staff report or my recommendation for tomorrow that would be contrary. MR. KANE: I'd certainly like to let my voice be OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 92 heard that the most intensely developed area of Collier County should have a park, a community park. And I would like also to ask Nell when will we find out if in fact the compliance with the neighborhood park is taking place and to the understanding that the -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Mr. Dorrill, how soon could we have that information available to the residents here in Pelican Bay? MR. DORRILL: I would think that within 30 days we could have an analysis from the staff's perspective as to -- and it's not quite as easy as that because on the other hand Westinghouse officials will represent to you that in some instances, and I don't fully understand the mechanisms of the foundation here, but that in terms of their contribution or requirements for the foundation that in part they have done more based on prior requests. And I understand that you have young children and that your interests may be in a softball field or a multi-purpose football and soccer field but in prior years and previous negotiations there is a preponderance of tennis courts in the community well beyond the requirement that Westinghouse had. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33969~ 93 But the report will need to show on balance both the current inventory as opposed to what was required as an absolute minimum. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: And to my knowledge because that's come up before, the PUD in that regard has not been amended. The PUD with the amendments doesn't address anything different than what I think Dr. Kane has alluded to. MR. KANE: That's correct. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Commissioner Goodnight? COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: One thing, 15 acres according to the criteria that's set up by the County Parks & Recreation that the board adopting it in early 80's is not a community park. There has to be at least 30 acres for it to be classified as a community park. So in actuality what you're talking about would have to be classified as a neighborhood park. MR. KANE: Okay. The tremendous degree of willingness on the part of Westinghouse to swap land with anybody who'll swap land with them, they have a 25-acre middle school site that was here as well and then swapped off land in Immokalee for the middle school and OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 94 elementary school and other parts of the land. that with -- COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: off in Immokalee? you° They did What land did they swap MR. KANE: I'd rather Debbie Cook explain that to But the 20 acres here that's next to it as a school site may be sufficient to help make that a 35-acre park if one is willing to see this board and the school board work together to create a 35-acre park that could possibly have a school on it some day. And perhaps you have other property of value elsewhere that would be of value more to the school board than to you to allow that to take place. And there are -- MR. DORRILL: There's other reasons that that couldn't occur in this instance in that you would have and it would be purely and simply a policy decision by the commission, but they would then have two community parks in this particular district when they only have one community park in the other four commission districts. But as from a policy perspective, that decision's up to OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 95 the County Co~mission. MR. KANE: But the intense development that's taking place here as I pointed out earlier, we are one-fourth the land size of the City of Naples and we have one-half the population. We have very intensQly developed area. Beachwalk, Naples Park are even more intensely developed. And whether the two parks and in that type of intensity development isn't overparking. That's a new word. The population. And I think that we need to realize that this is where the people live and I know you can -- CHAIRMAN VOLPE: We're beyond Pelican Bay and you have made your point and you' re looking at the North Naples planning community where you've got a neighborhood park issue and you've also got an issue as it relates to a community park in North Naples in addition to Veteran's Park and whether that community park will be at this particular site or whether it will be at some other location in close proximity to your community is, I think, an issue that this Board is going to have to address as we get a little further into the issue. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 96 If there's nothing further, Dr. Kane -- Dr. Boyd? MR. BOYD: I'm also a -- C~AIRMAN VOLPE: You need to identify yourself for the record. MR. BOYD: Peter Boyd, George Washington Way, obviously a neighborhood resident. I'm a father of two children, 12 and 9 years old. I just want to bring it down to a human level to each one of you that my kids do not have a place to play baseball or soccer or throw a Frisbee around in this neighborhood and we do want a - I don't care what you call it - a neighborhood park or community park. We want some green space. Having lived in New York City at one time, the specter of density choking down our throats here and the possibility of having future gridlock in the north end of this county is anything but appealing. And right now we've got intensive develo[~ent underway at the southeast end of this property which, you know, I don't think anybody can really predict what that's going to do to traffic, but it won't make it lighter. I guarantee you that. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 97 I just want to put it to you on a human level that people in Vanderbilt Beach and other parents I've talked to, and there's a lot of them in this neighborhood, want a place for their kids to just go play ball or let the dog run and throw a Frisbee or something of that nature. We want a human activity zone that's friendly. And at the same time you're getting a double benefit of staving off an overchoking, overdeveloped neighborhood. COMMISSIONER HASSE: In response to that, you know, this commission has been very cognizant of the parks in this county and we've done a great deal for them and not only in North Naples but in Immokalee, East Naples and South Naples and down to Marco Island, Golden Gate, and we' re looking at this and I can assure you I know I am and Commissioner Goodnight is very conscious of parks as well as myself, so we' re going to look at it very hard before we start breaking ground for more buildings up there. MR. BOYD: I appreciate your attention to this issue. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Thank you. MR. SMUDGE: Russ Smudge again. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 ?? C- 98 So a decision on this is at least 30 days away because Mr. Dorrill is going to have this study made? CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, the intention of having this on the agenda tomorrow was for informational purposes and discussion. The information about compliance with the PUD as it relates to neighborhood parks, Mr. Dorrill's indicated that will take approximately 30 days and then we'll have that available. MR. SMUDGE: This kind of ties in with the community park question, also. So that will put some people at ease that the final decision is at least 30 days away. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: At least. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Maybe more. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Yes, sir. MR. JOHNSON: Harold Johnson again. In all fairness, I read the article in the paper and it's not at all what Mr. Dorrill's explained. I really think you ought to get them to print a retraction because there's just a handful of us here. There's a lot of others that read the darn thing and they have a complete misunderstanding of what's going on and I think OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 99 they should print a correction. COMMISSIONER HASSE: I assure you I've received several letters and-- MR. JOHNSON: They have it completely different. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: We'll have the opportunity to do that, also. C~AIRMAN VOLPE: If it had been reported any other way we may not have had some people with us this evening. Are there any other comments, any other matters that you'd like to bring to the attention of the Board? Mr. Arnold, while you' re here, has the connection been made so that the effluent line is now connected to the golf course? MIKE ARNOLD: Yes, sir, it is. CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay. COMMISSIONER SHANAHAN: Meeting adjourned? CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Meeting adjourned. Thank you very much for your attendance. (Proceedings concluded at 7:40 p.m.) OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962 J~ne 29, 1992 There being no further business for the Good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by Order of the Chair - Time: 7:40 P.M. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISBIONERH BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL Board on or as corrected CHAIRMAN 100 STATE OF FLORIDA ) COUNTY OF COLLIER ) I, Christina J. Reynoldson, Deputy Official Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at Large, do hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the date and place as stated in the caption hereto on Page 1 hereof; that the foregoing computer-assisted transcription, consisting of pages numbered 2 through 99, inclusive, is a true record of my Stenograph notes taken at said proceedings. Dated this 10th day of July, 1992. State of Fl[~ld~. My c~mission exL~l~e~'~ OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962