BCC Minutes 07/29/1993 B (Pelican Bay Services Division Budget)ORIGINAL
COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
PELICAN BAY SERVICES DIVISION BUDGET
PUBLIC HEARING
July 29, 1993
6:00 p.m.
The Commons
6251 Pelican Bgy Boulevard
Naples, Florida 33963
Reported by:
Christina J. Reynoldson, RPR
Deputy official Court Reporter
Notary Public
State of Florida at Large
TELE:
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
Carrothers Reporting Ser%ice, Inc.
20th Judicial Circuit - Collier County
3301 East Tamiami Trail
Naples, Florida 33962
(.813) 732-2700
FAX: (813) 774-6022
APPEARANCES
BOARD MEMBERS:
Timothy Constantine - Acting Chairman
John Norris - Commissioner
Michael Volpe - Commissioner
STAFF:
Bob Byrne - Budget Office
Kenneth Cuyler - County Attorney
Nell Dorrill - County Manager
Mike McNees - Budget office
SPEAx~gs:
Jim Ward - Pelican Bay Services Administrator
Bernie Young - Chairman, Advisory Committee
Frances Barsh
Susie Dorwell
Nick Ford
Start Goodman
Harold Johnson
Lou Juracek
Dr. Pat Kane
Eloise Koffer
Jan Krueger
Arthur Lemley
Lou Manbuka
Tom Sprigs
'Gray Tuthill
* * * * * * * .* * * * * * * *
IrF-D-E-X
FAGE
Rescheduling of Landfill Workshop ......... 3
Agenda Item 3-A .................. 8
Agenda Item 3-B .................. 41
Public Comments .................. 83
Adjournment .... ................ 85
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
.P R 0 C E E D I N G S
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: We will call the Thursday,
July 29th meeting of the Board of County Commissioners to
order.
Mr. Dorrill, would you like to lead us in an
invocatio~?
(The invocation was presented, followed'by
recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance.)
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: We're here this evening for
a hearing on the Pelican Bay Services Division, and I
believe we have a staff presentation to begin'with.
MR. McNEES: Good evening, Commissioners. Mike
McNees from your budge~ office. We've got a piece of
housekeeping business we ~eed to do this evening.
You may or may not be aware of a conflict that has
come up with the scheduled September the 8th budget
workshop. I'll give you a quick briefing and then you
all can tell me what you' want to do.
When we ~iscussed that last'Tuesday, you discussed
moving the landfill workshop which had been scheduled for
the 8th to October sometime to make room for the budget
workshop. That was adopted. In the meantime, a number
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of'people have called regarding the landfill workshop
expressing concern about moving that, and I'll get back
to that in a minute.
The other pressure we have here is once the gavel
came down on that decision on Wednesday, the property
appraiser'notified all of the independent special
districts who have only until next Wednesday to notify
him of their budget workshop dates to be published in
their notice, and that work has already begun.
A number of them have already submitted their
workshop dates based on the fact that yours is going to
be the 8th. The property appraiser is expressing a great
deal of consternation about any possible change to the
8th.
I've spoken to a number of people from the Golden
Gate area and I don't intend to say that I represent them
or have spoken to all of them, but the impression I'm
getting is they have two concerns, one being they're
already out s~me money for flyers, and they've already
done some advertising for the December (sic) the 8th
date. That amount represents in the neighborhood of $50.
They're also concerned about an open-ended workshop with
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5
no commitment from you all as to specifically when.
In talking to the ones that I have, they seem to be
agreeable that if you all will give them Wednesday the
15th, which would be a one-week delay in their workshop,
and if you'll reimburse them, and I told them if you
wouldn't, we'd pass the hat in the budget office and
reimburse them the $50 they're out so they can reprint
their brochures, and I would go a step further and say
that the county will be willing to make every effort to
publicize the meeting being delayed one week.
The property appraiser and his staff and his needs
will still be met. We can have the budget meeting the
8th and the 22nd as adopted and hopefully the most people
will be satisfied. It. doesn't look like there's any way
to satisfy everyone. That would be my suggestion, and
you all tell me whether you want to proceed that way.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Before we go on, for those
of you standing out there, there is some standing room
over here (indicating). You might be able to. hear
better. If you want to come in, ~ou're welcome to. If
you want to stay put, you're welcome to as well. It
might be easier over here (indicating) on the left.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES,.FL
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COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
here too.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
There's also a seat up front
Front row seat also.
MR. McNEES: Last statement on that would be I
spoke to Commissioner Matthews this afternoon and her
preference, she asked me to express, would be to move the
budget workshop to Tuesday the 7th. In checking that
date, I find the school board has already scheduled
theirs for that date and we can't be on top of them and
they get first choice. So we're sort of in a box here,
and I would recommend what I have.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: The majority of the people
you've spoken to have been comfortable with the 15th?
MR. McNEES: And I've spoken directly to a couple
and here to a couple.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Fine with me. I'll throw in
my ten bucks.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Well, I'm opposed to using
public funds ~o reimburse this group for the advertising.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: We're talking about private
funds, not public funds.
MR. McNEES: There's a whole bunch of folks in the
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7
property appraiser's office willing to chip in a few
dollars as well because this makes a big difference to
them.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
funds.
MR. McNEES:
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
that item?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
Sure.
As long as it's not public
We'll be happy to work that out.
Is there any discussion on
So we will have our first
budget hearing on September 8th at 5:05 and we'll have a
workshop on the landfill on September 15th at what time?
'MR. McNEES: Essentially delay that a w~ek.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I wanted to find out what
time.
MR. McNEES: It was tentatively scheduled for 6:00.
I guess it 'would stay 6:00.
COMMISSIONER VOLP~: Mr. Chairman, I'll-make a
motion that we schedule the landf~ll workshop for
September 15th at 6:00 p.m. at the Board of County
Commissioners chambers on the East Trail.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: And I second.
'" OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL '33962
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: There's a motiOn and a
second. Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
favor say aye.
(A. chorus of "Ayes.")
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
Seeing none, all those in
Motion carries unanimously.
MR. McNEES: Thank you. I'll pass the meeting over
to Bob Byrne, the analyst for Pelican Bay.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Thank you, Mr. McNees.
MR. McNEES: Thank you.
MR. BYRNE: Commissioners, I'm going to .give you a
brief overview of the Pelican Bay budget. It's in the
middle of your package there, beginning with the fund
summary for Fund 109.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: There's some extra .copies here
for anyone who would like to look at what we're looking
at.
EXOUSe me.
MR. BYRNE:
Total appropriations in this fund are
increasing 3.3 percent, and this fund is the Pelican Bay
operations which are supported by the non-ad valorem
assessments which we'll be discussing later on in this
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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9
meeting.
There are two major types of expenditures in this
fund, water management and right-of-way and median
beautification. The detail for right-of-way Operations
is the following page and included there are several
expanded Services, first of which is adding an annual
flower planting program for $18,700, also doing beach
cleaning program for $22,700 and then additional
landscape maintenance in Pelican Bay Commons and several
parking lots for approximately $32,000. Included in
those are purchase of additional capital equipment and
the necessary operating expenses.
.The following page is the detail for the water
management, and the most Significant item here is that
next year there will be a replacement of a four-wheel
drive dump pickup truck and there'll be additional
purchases of aeration fountains. .Overall, this
department's up 5.5 peroent.
The nex~ page, unfortunately these aren't numberedl
but this is Fund 778, which is the Pelican Bay Street
Lighting Fund. This fund is supported by ad valorem
taxes. This is actually showing -- this fund is actually
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lO
showing a one percent decrease. Overall, the tentative
millage rates here the commission set on Tuesday is .1015
mills of which corresponds to a 2.2 percent increase over
the roll back rate. I believe that's all I really need
to mention on that one.
And then the following page is Fund 650. This is
the Pelican Bay Agency Fund. This accounts for the
Pelican Bay water management bonds were issued -- the
1979 bonds, and this pays for the annual debt service on
those bonds. These bonds are supported by non-ad valorem
assessments.
Are there any questions on that?
'(No response.)
MR. BYRNE: That's the extent of my presentation.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Any questions for staff?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Maybe for Mr. Ward.
The Street lighting program, has the installation
of all the street light~ been completed?
MR. WARD: We've recently c~mpleted the'
installation of that whole system this year.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: On the beach raking, has that
b~en done in the past or is that a new service that's
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL -33962
ll
being provided?
MR. WARD: That's a new service that residents
within the community have requested us to.do this year.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The capital outlay as a new
tractor, that's a specialized piece of equipment that's
required for the beach raking?
MR. WARD: Yeah. Essentially I think the program
is to rake the beach in front of the Pelican Bay
community, most specifically out here in front of the
Foundation Commons area and then further to the north and
in front of the existing -- the new Commons area and down
towards the Bay Colony area on a periodic basis during
the season and then on' probably a monthly basis in the
summer months.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Is that above the mean high
water line or is that actually on the public beach?
MR. WARD: On the public beach itself.
It sort of was an outcome of both Hurricane Andrew
and the storm that we had this past year. We had a
significant amount of debris on the beach in front of
Pelican Bay and we didn't have any way to clean it up,
and we're not in the business of doing any beach raking.
OFFICIAL COURT .REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL '33962
Both the Foundation manager and advisory board had
indicated that there is some desire within the community
to increase the level of service of beach raking during
the season clearly, so it is in the budget this year.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I know at Tigertail we had a
significant challenge in obtaining the necessary permits
in order to rake the beach at Tigertail. Has your office
or has our staff contemplated some type of committee may
be required in order to do this?
MR. WARD: Yes. We had some preliminary
discussions with the Department of Natural Resources on
getting the permits necessary to do the beach raking.
The permits have essentially been prepared and they will
be in front of the Board in the next few weeks for
signature.
Permitting is an up-in-the air thing. I haven't
been told by DNR that there will be any significant
problems with permitting. Their big concern obviously is
during turtle ~eason, but not durShg season.
COMMISSIONER.NORRIS: What arrangements have you
made for turtle protection during the turtle nesting
season?
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MR. WARD: Essentially we probably will not do very
much beach raking at all during turtle nesting season.
To the extent that we do it, the local officials that
represent looking after -- the turtle nesting person, I
guess, I'm not sure who they are, will come down and mark
out all of those areas and we will not be able to rake
where we see turtle marks.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
or tm
Any questions?
I have nothing further.
Do we have a sign-up tonight
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Registered speakers?
MR. DORRILL: There will be an opportunity to
entertain public comment. It may not be necessary to
come to the podium, if they'll just rise, since we have a
recorder here.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: We don't have a formal
sign-up sheet or registration sheet tonight, but anyone
who wants to speak or has questions are certa~hly welcome
to, and just a quick show of hands of people who'would be
interested in speaking.
One, two, three. All right. Why don't we start
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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here (indicating) and identify yourself.
MR. LEMLEY: Mr. Chairman, my name is Arthur
Lemley. I reside at 7104 Barrington Circle, Unit 101,
here in Pelican Bay.
My first question would be, are our comments at
this time directed only to those issues that were Just
discussed or to all the issues before the commission?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Tonight we're dealing
strictly with the Pelican Bay budget.
MR. LEMLEY: Strictly Pelican Bay budget.
As to the issue of beach raking, did I interpret
what was said to mean the entire beach will be raked or
only that area in front of the Commons and in 'front of
Bay Colony?
MR. WARD: I think the intent is to begin raking
essentially at Clam Pass and head north to the Bay Colony
area, but in season I think it's primarily cohcentrated
around where the residential community will be, knowing
that you go out to the beach on the tram pass here and
the north tram pass, our major concentrations will be in
that area and will go up to the Bay Colony area, also
because there's some concentrations of residents in that
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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area. And then sort of the in-between area where there's.
very little residents we won't concentrate as heavily in
those locations.
MR. LEMLEY: What you've said is the beach raking
'will be been restricted to certain areas and will only be
performed at certain times.
MR. WARD: During season, yes. I think the intent
is to sort of rake the beach on a weekly basis, primarily
in the areas that I identified to you. If it needs it
more in the other areas, the intent will be to try and
expand it to do those areas also. Then in summer as the
level of the community goes down and it doesn't need to
be done as frequently~ we'll decrease that frequency
level as appropriate.
MR. LEMLEY: So much for that issue. What I'd
really like to address is the primary issue I feel. is
before the~commission this evening, and I'd like to open
that discussion by saying I wish to, for'the 'record,
object to the timing of the meeting in that I feel it has
been timed in a manner that makes it very difficult for
the greater majority of the Pelican Bay residents to be
p~esent and to participate in this meeting and therefore
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL '33962
ma~e it impossible for the commission to hear the opinion
of the majority of the residents here.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I understand that
frustration. Unfortunately our fiscal year runs from
October 1 to October 1. And this is by no means
purposefuily done to inconvenience anyone, but in order
to do the budget in a timely fashion and still keep our
fiscal year. This is where the public hearings fall.
MR. LEMLEY: I think my most important question
then would be, Mr. Chairman, and probably directed
towards the County Attorney, do you at this time have a
legal opinion as to the validity of the action that
you're proposing taking because it would seem that what
is being invited here is a cork shell which could be both
time-consuming and costly and I'd like to know what the
County Attorney's opinion is as to the footing on which
you stand in proceeding on a non-ad valorem basis.
MR. CUYLER: His question is, for the chairman's
information, ~eally is addressing. Item B on your agenda.
The answer, I'll tell you, is yes -- you're talking about
the switch in the methodology or --
', MR. LEMLEY: Both the switch in the methodology and
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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17
the legality of the proposed adopted methodology. It
would seem, as I read this, it says, We're going to do
what we want to do. If you don't like it, you've got 20
days to challenge it. I'm not sure where we stand. I
see no citation in here that cites any authority to
proceed, and I just wondered if --
MR. CUYLER: What you may want to do is go ahead
and take B and discuss it a little bit and let Mr. Ward
explain what has happened and what is going on and I'll
be happy to address your question.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Could I suggest, Mr. Chairman,
that if there are any other comments about the budget
itself, perhaps we could entertain the public comment on
particular aspects of the.budget, and then certainly
we're interested in soliciting a hearing, public input,
on the second part of our agenda. I suggest if there any
others that wish to address some of the expenditures or
line items in the proposed budget --
MR. JOHNSON: I'm glad to b~ here. I appreciate
the Commissioners and taking their time this evening. I
can only voice my --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: If you would identify
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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yourself for the record.
MR. JOHNSON: Harold Johnson, GlenCove. Sorry.
When I received Mr. Ward's letter, I checked it and
of course I got all excited because we're going to see a
tax increase of 148 percent. I wrote to this Board and
asked them to give me the budget for the last few years
and the projected 1994 budget and they responded
immediately. I went and visited Mr. Ward. We had a nice
meeting.
I'm quite familiar now with what he's working on
with the street lighting and right-of-way and'water
management and also he has additional items in additional
parking which are expenses he hadn't had up until now, so
I guess I have to stop'right there.
I have some comments on the second part of what
you're going to do, but as far as the budget is
concerned, I feel it's very reasonable and I think Mr.
Ward has been on %op of it.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Thank. you, Mr. JOhnson.
Mr. Young.
MR. YOUNG: For the record, my name is Bernie Young
and I'm chairman of the Pelican Bay Municipal Services
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19
a~d Taxing Unit and I want to thank the Commissioners for
their appearance tonight and apologize to the group.
We've had these meetings before and a dozen people
have shown up and this is the first time we've really
gotten a great response, so I promise you we will have
better facilities for this meeting next year. Whether or
not our new community center that the Foundations may
build will be done by that time, I'm not sure. But if it
isn't, we'll try to rent some space in a hotel or
someplace because I can see we've outgrown our current
meeting hall.
I hope you'll bear with us tonight. We Just had no
idea that we would have this kind of response, but we're
pleased with it and we doh't want to discourage you from
coming again.
We're sorry about the time, and I think they
explained why that has to be. It's simply the.budget
restriction. We do have meetings monthly and.they're
open to the r~sidents of Pelican Bay. We invite anyone
to. attend. They're open meetings. Everything we do is
in the sunshine, so we hope the continued interest will
take place.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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2O
The main item that I would like to bring before the
commission this evening, when you review the minutes that
our organization has, as you know they've already
exceeded 600 typewritten pages, so you know we've been
working hard since we created our municipal taxing
district.
For those people who may not be aware, we had 15
members appointed to this board that meet on a monthly
basis appointed by the commission. Some of those are
replaced each year so if you have an interest in
government you do have an opportunity to send your name
in to be considered for appointment to our advisory
board.
Sorry about the little speech there, but I see a
lot of new faces here and I think it's helpful for them
to have a better understanding of the operation.
In those minutes I'm sure that you'll probably
agree that our first priority has been our concern on
these water m~nagement bonds. They've just been a thorn
in our saddle here and it presents a lot of confusion to~
our residents on why they're being assessed for bonds
that normally when you come into a new development you
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, coLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
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thi~k all those things have been provided by the
developer. That's not the case in Pelican Bay.
The water management system in Pelican Bay, the
berms, all the lakes and everything, were done through a
bond issue and these bonds are to be repaid by the
current an~ future residents of Pelican Bay. Those bonds
were done at a time when the interest rates were in the
eight percent area. Currently three and a half percent
is probably a good price for municipal bonds. They also
require a lot of administration costs.
So our board is very anxious to find a way of
refunding them. And fortunately the Commission did
cooperate with us this.past year. We did have additional
funds in reserve that by l~w we were permitted to use for
the prior refunding of the bonds and so we did partially
refund this bond issue last year. And we're working
diligently to continue this program so that they are
refunded at least over the next two years or three years,
but tonight I'm going to propose to you a program to have
them totally refunded by the end of the year.
This would require that you authorize staff to
transfer approximately $1,200,000 from a water and sewer
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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fund, which I believe is still kept separately, at least
accounting-wise, that represents the $8,000,000 that we
had when our system was taken over by the county. So the
million two that I'm asking you to consider tonight, at
least I see it as our money.
The'fact that it hasn't been used prior, I'm not
saying that it hadn't been properly used because it's a
matter of interpretation; that money, if it's not used
for this purpose, will be used to increase th~ water and
sewer capacity that's going to be required by Pelican Bay
as we continue to grow. So I'm not -- I don't mean to
try to accuse anybody that the money hasn't been properly
used, this is strictly a matter of Judgment of how it's
to be allocated.
So our first priority is to try and get rid of that
because our people noticed there was a separate billing
on the preliminary statements that they were all sent for
this bond retirement. The other reason is it's very
unfair to som~ of our people because it had to be done on
an acreage basis. .At the time when they started to
develop Pelican Bay, there was nothing here but lakes, so
to. guarantee these bonds they guaranteed they would be
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
23
paid off by the people that owned the land.
Well, for the first few years it was fine,
Westinghouse owned most of the land and they were paying
the bonds, but now we own most of the land and that means
that a person that has a home on a single or half acre
lot probably got a bill for over $300. This is
substantial, I think, and sort of unfair simply because
they happen to own some acreage in Pelican Bay.
So the two things we can accomplish is we can save
a lot of money by refunding these bonds and we can
certainly be more fair to our residents in Pelican Bay by
refunding.
.COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You're not talking about
refunding them, you're taIking about paying them off.
MR. YOUNG: Right, paying them off.
If my information is correct, one of the top
priorities for the county water and sewer department
would be from a cost effectiveness issue. They would
like to merge %ounty rates with Peiican Bay rates so that
we don't have two systems. No argument that from an
administrative standpoint that that certainly would save
some money on a county-wide basis.
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It does present a,little bit of a problem because
it would result in a net increase in water and sewer
rates in Pelican Bay. However, if you consider that the
irrigation rates would decrease and that we would not
have this $400,000 bond payment for the water management
system, t~ose two items ~ould offset the increase in
rates for water and sewer. Now, I'm talking broad
figures here that have to be explored and researched, but
in round figures I think that can happen.
So what the final result would be is a win/win
situation. It would certainly be a better situation for
residents in Pelican Bay, at least in my opinion, at
least'in most of the residents -- there'll be exceptions
to any type of a tax system that you might propose.
It certainly would be a win situation for the
residents of Collier County because it'll generate
additional revenues for the water'and sewer department
rather than what we're giving some investors Tight now
for these bonds which are probably outside the county. I
don't know who owns the bonds, but it irritates me to
have to make this $400,000 payment to these people every
year.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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SO what I'd like to propose then this evening as
p~rt of the adoption of our current budget is an addendum
that would establish a Joint committee of county staff
and our staff to try to reach a win/win situation to
bring back to the county commissioners prior to
December /st, because our bond payment is January 1st.
So if they can bring something back to you by
December 1st that looked like everybody's winning, the
residents at Pelican Bay, the residents of the county
entirely, it could be approved by you and the bonds will
be paid off. That's really a very broad sketch and I'm
sure there's specific questions that you have and I hope
that I can possibly answer them tonight.
John?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: My specific question is I'm
not familiar with the fund that you were referring to to
withdraw the funds to pay the bonds.
MR. BYRNE: That would be the Pelican Bay Water &
Sewer Fund, F~nd ~50.
now.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
It's under, the utilities division
Do you have any idea how much
is. in that fund at this point?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
MR. BYRNE: I believe approximately eight million,
but that's off the top of my head.
fund?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
MR. BYRNE:
What is the purpose of that
For water and sewer within Pelican Bay.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Improvements, capital?
MR. BYRNE: Operations and capital.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I guess I'm the only one
sitting here this evening who has a sense of history what
transpired during the period of time when PBID was merged
into the Collier County Water & Sewer District, and I
didn't mean to interrupt, but --
'COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's fine. I'm trying
to -- I'm not familiar with that fund and I was trying to
get a feeling --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: There probably would be
several legal issues that would have to be pursued.
Specifically one that comes to my mind would be whether
those funds that are available, i~ the water and sewer
fund could appropriately be used to retire bonds that
were issued for a storm water management system. And
that would be something that the legal staff --
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL .33962
MR. YOUNG: Our preliminary research says yes, it
would be possible.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: But that's a legal issue
that's going to have to be addressed, and some
preliminary work's been done.
The other question that comes to my mind, Mr.
Young, is my recollection is there's a part of the
resolutions and ordinances that implemented the merger of
the PBID to the county system. There were provisions
that said that the rates within the Pelican Bay community
would not be increased until such time as those rates
were at a parity with the rates in all of the other areas
of the county.
That probably i~ not going to happen, as I
understand it, for some period of time. Your rates
within Pelican Bay are lower than other areas of the
unincorporated area of the county., is that correct,
somebody?
Mr. Ward, is that correct, the rates are lower,
water and sewer rates?
MR. WARD: Yes, that is correct.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So under this scenario, it's
\
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES,.FL 33962
28
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
going to mean that your residents are going to be paying
more in water and sewer than they're paying now.
I'm wondering whether that would then be a breach
of any of the provisions in the agreement that we said
that we would not increase those rates until such time as
the rates'within the community were at a parity with the
rates in the other parts of the unincorporated area of
the county.
MR. YOUNG: I can only respond that this was a
serious consideration that we had reviewed for some time.
When I say "we," our 15-man commission, and we recognize
that that parity has not been reached technically.
.I just want to restate what you said. The parity'
did not say our rates can"t be increased. The rates said
you will not absorb our cost into your county rate system
Until parity.
You may find, as we run in the old Pelican Bay
Improvement District, we probably would have had to
increase rate~ at some point along the line. So, you
know, we anticipate that you're going to increase our
rates. But if what you're saying is true, you wouldn't
increase them to the extent parity would be reached in
29
the near future.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Right. Yeah, that's my point,
probably before five years --
MR. YOUNG: As far as the residents of Pelican Bay
are concerned, they're going to save almost that and
maybe more in the lower irrigation rates as long as you
keep your irrigation rates where they currently are and
the fact that we're not having to pay off the 400,000 to
the water management bonds.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: From my initial first -- this
is the first time I've actually heard the presentation
from a fairness issue as it relates to your property
owners. It seems to me that it is inequitable to some
extent and perhaps unfair that you've got some people wh6
are paying a greater portion of the debt service for a
water management system. It seems that by putting it
into a rate system that it's going to distribute the
benefit and the r'esponsibilities more equitably.
MR. YOUNG: That's what we're really after.
There's no tax that we like and none that's fair, but
we're just trying to come up with a fairer system.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: You keep saying $400,000. Is
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, coLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
the debt service -- it's $604,0007
MR. YOUNG: That's because, you know, we work in
the sunshine and we can't plan strategy or anything. If
you refuse us, we've got surplus in there to --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Retire some part --
MR..YOUNG: Another part, and we'll keep doing that
~ntil we get these bonds paid off. If, for example, you
allow the one million two transfer, then that.money that
we have in the current budget -- I'm glad you raised that
point because I'm not asking you to do anything not in
the current budget. We're prepared to go forward
irregardless of which way you decide on this issue. So,
you know, I'm not making it a part of the budget. I'm
just saying now is the time to consider this issue aside.
If you allow us to make this transfer, that would
then give us funds to replace, you know, our reserve
funds because our next priority probably here in Pelican
Bay, once we get this bond issue, will be to have some
kind of a contingency fund because'we have millions of
dollars worth of planning in Pelican Bay. If we get a
couple more storms like we had this past year, you know,
we had'to come up with cash to put all those palm trees
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
31
ba~k and things.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Does this proposal come with
the, as a result of meeting of our advisory grou9 and
with the recommendation that you've made to the Board
that we establish this joint committee?
MR. YOUNG: Yes.
of our 15-member board.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
I'm simply conveying the wishes
So it's been discussed and
voted upon and approved by the majority of the board?
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I have a question for Mr.
Byrne or Mr. Cuyler or Mr. Bloetscher. Is there an
obvious fatal flaw to this or -- it would seem it's worth
investigating unless there's something --
MR. DORRILL~ I don'~ think we're opposed to
investigating it at all. I'd like to see something a
little more actuarially based. And not only, you know,
did we assume the.assets of the district, we assumed
liabilities, and I want to make sure that legglly and
through our bond counsel that he doesn't have a problem
with commingling of funds.
It is a little peculiar to take water and sewer
excess revenues and use them to retire drainage bonds.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
3:2
But frankly, that at some point could be a policy issue
fo~ the Commission and one of equity as Mr. Volpe has
indicated so long as legally and from a fiduciary
standpoint that there's no problem.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Actuarially as well I think in
terms of I assume that Mr. Young and his committee -- I
mean, they've reviewed the economics of this arrangement
for the benefit of the unit owners or for the property
owners and that to unbalance it would be a benefit to the
majority of the property owners in the community?
MR. YOUNG: Unbalanced, whenever you shift
anything, some people will be paying a little less and
some people paying a little more, but on balance we're
convinced that no one get~ hurt by it and it does average
things out in Pelican Bay where we all -- it's a corny
expression, but we all pay our fair share.
MR. MANBUKA: Excuse me. Can I ask a question?
MR. YOUNG: Yes, sir.
MR. MAN~UKA: Is this on a per capita b~sis? Are
you saying -- okay; with this per capita, essentially, is
that what~ you're saying?
-, In other words, we go from acreage to per capita?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
33
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Sir, just for the record,
can I get you to state your name?
MR. MANBUKA: My name is Lou Manbuka.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Thanks.
MR. YOUNG: The only increase that we have left
now,~ assessment, is to retire those bonds.
Okay. We're talking about --
In the future we won't use acreage to
MR. MANBUKA:
MR. YOUNG:
do anything.
MR. MANBUKA:
Are we talking about the first part
of the amounts, that $20 or so, Or are we talking about
the hundred some dollars in the second part? Maybe I
misunderstand you.
item.
MR. YOUNG: The first item would be the acreage
That would be a limiting.
MR. MANBUKA: Okay. This thing -- this acreage has
to do with that part or the second part?
First ~art.
I'm sorry.
I'apologize.
MR. YOUNG:
MR. MANBUKA:
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Anything else, Mr. Young?
MR. YOUNG: That's all I have, unless there's some
other questions. I hope the group knows that this study
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
34
committee will get much better details than I've been
able to give today. I Just want to get the issue before
everybody because I think it's worthwhile.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Mr. Johnson?
MR. JOHNSON: I understand from my discussions here
with Mr. Ward that the debt service we see in'the 1993
tax 'bill will appear in our 1994 sewers. Why are we
fooling around with this? It'll be gone in a year
anyway.
MR. YOUNG: Well, the way we budgeted it, we're
hoping to take care of the two years.
MR. JOHNSON: That's already set now.
MR. YOUNG: It's set now if we do nothing. If they
pursue the program we're after, we'll be able'to take
that money that we've allocated for this year or for '94
and put it in a reserve and there'll be no assessment in
'94/95.
MR. JOHNSON: Where's this money coming 'from? I
thought the '94 is from reserves that you set aside.
MR. DORRILL:. I think he's indicating that he will
go ahead and make the '94 payment based on the
m~thodology that has historically been provided for but
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
351,
then we would attempt to retire the bonds one year early ..'
and eliminate the final year's assessment acreage
assessment and use those excess water and sewer revenues.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Did anyone else want to
address the budget, any of the budget issues?
COM~ISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Chairman, may I ask a
question Just since this is one of the first
opportunities we've had to assemble as a group since last
year?
I just wanted to ask Mr. Ward or maybe Mr. Young,
was last year the year that you brought the right-of-way
operations in-house?
MR. WARD: Yes.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:' Has that proven to be
successful generally? We were looking not only from a
budgetary perspective because we thought that it might· be
cost efficient to do that?
MR. WARD:
MR. YOUNG:
I'll let Mr. Young answer that question.
I have to drive, up and down the
boulevards and get.out and pick up papers occasionally,
but not quite as often as I used to.
Overall we are very pleased, very pleased, with the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
36
success of our operation. Had we not had our own
in-house staff during the two storms last fall, we could
have never managed under our current budget if we had to
hire all the work that they did, all the overtime that
they did, from outside firms.
We have a long ways to go, however, so I don't to
leave the impression that we're where we eventually want
to be. We think we can improve the level of service even
more. We ran into some problems this year and we got
some advice from some qualified people that told us to
cut back the pentas and unfortunately that was not good
advice because it killed every one of them, so now we've
had to pull all the pentas out and you see ba~e spots
where we usually had beautiful flowers.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Generally you're satisfied
with the service?
MR. YOUNG: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: The budget shows a 24 percent
increase, though, in that budget,.~hich means you're
going to be paying.significantly more next year for the
same service.
., MR. WARD: That is due primarily to the additions
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
of the new landscape areas coming into this community,
essentially this site, the Foundation site, and there's a
parking lot called the Sandpiper Parking Lot north of
here which we'll take over.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So you're adding right-of-way,
then is what you're saying, that's the reason for the
increase?
MR. WARD:
MR. YOUNG:
There's another eight acre park.
And finally, the people probably aren't
aware of this, but over the years Westinghouse has picked
up considerable costs. For example, all the flower
planting and things like that were done at Westinghouse"s
expense and all of these things gradually we're having to
take them over.
They're preparing us for the day where we're going
to be, you know, totally on our own. So that{s a lot of
our budget .expense are expenses that Westinghouse used to
pay that they no longer.will be paying.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Bob?.'
MR. BYRNE: Mr. Chairman, to answer Commissioner
Norris' question he had previously on Fund 450, the total
prpposed budget for fiscal year '94 for that fund is
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
9
a~proximately 8.5 million dollars. Within there would be
.5~8 million dollars of reserves. Of that 5.8 million
dollars of reserves, 1.3 you couldn't use for anything
because that's a debt service reserve. So in essence it
would be 4.5 million dollars in reserves available.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Thar~k you.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: If there's nothing else on
Item A on the agenda, that'll conclude our presentation
on the budget.
Let's go to Item B. Mr. Cuyler, you have some
words on this?
MR. CUYLER: I think Mr. Ward probably needs to
give a comprehensive background on what this item is and
then we can discuss the a~swer to his question.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Do we need to take any .action
as it relates to the budget at this time, or is this a
matter that will be taken up at our first budget hearing
in September?
MR. DOR~ILL: We'll presume, there's consensus to
adopt the budget at the first hearing unless instructed
otherwise.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Mr. Young, did you want any
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
39
formality as far as pursuing the committee or with staff
or -~
MR. YOUNG: Yes, we'd recommend that Mr. Ward
represent us in Working with whoever staff members would
be appropriate.
MR. DORRILL: You may want to give us a motion and
a second for the analysis of the reserves.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I'll make that motion to have
Mr. Ward and his staff work with our staff to help with
proposing a response.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: A second?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Actually it's paying off the
bonds 6ne year early.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Retiring the bonds.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Yes. And I'll second the
motion with the understanding that they would -- a study
group Would conclude its analysis and report back to the
Board not later than our first 'week of meeting in
December.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: There's a motion and a
second.
see a familiar hand in the audience. Mrs. Barsh? -
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, coLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
4O
MRS. BARSH: Frances Barsh, 5601 Turtle Bay Drive.
I think that this is an idea to consider; however,
I do feel that the people from the Pelican Bay group or
the representation should keep the people of Pelican Bay
thoroughly informed while this process is going on so
that the ~eople not be surprised with some complicated
consequences that may occur and not be able to do
anything about it.
I think during the whole process it's very
important to keep every.single person informed, not only
the 15 that are sitting on this board, but all of the
people. That's most important in this instance.
· COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Young, you have a
newsletter that you send 6ut to all of the residents of
Pelican Bay?
MR. YOUNG:. We would use a system similar to what
we tried to. use in changing the methodology this year
from parcel acreage to the unit where we had the series
of maetings plus several publications, and people seem to
appreciate that. So your point is well taken, and I
think the same procedure could be used for this.
', CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Any other discussion?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
41
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Seeing none, there's been a
motion and a second. Ail those in favor say aye.
(A chorus of "Ayes.")
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Motion carries unanimously.
Mr. Ward.
MR. WARD: Thank you. This part of the agenda
deals with the change in methodology for the operation
and maintenance of the Pelican Bay assessment plus the
debt service for the prior Pelican Bay Improvement
District bonds.
In the way of some background and history, the
prior.Pelican Bay Improvement District, which was a
separate and independent ~pecial taxing district, has
assessed the Pelican Bay community since 1979, 1980, for
the operation and maintenance essentially of the water
management system, the right-of-way system that is within
the Pelican Bay community.
That analysis or that assessment program was based
upon an acreage based assessment, and that means that we
took our total budget, divided it by the number of acres
that are within this community and everyone paid their
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
42
prorated share based upon the number of acres and tracts
of acres that you owned.
As Bernie mentioned earlier, that system works
extremely well when you have a community that essentially
has no residential units in it. The primary and only
payer bac~ in 1979 and 1980 and for many years now was
Westinghouse Communities of Naples, the primary developer
of this community.
As time goes on, though, we realize that that
system becomes more and more inequitable in trying to
charge for the way in Which the operation and the
maintenance of this community is paid for. And that is
due primarily to the f~ct that the more densely a parcel
of land is, the lower your per unit assessment is.
We see assessments in this community based upon the
way it had been done in the prior years ranging anywhere
from $30 to'around $300 per unit per year. Obviously for
the very very dense higH-rises, unfortunately.the tax
bill was around $30. That's not necessarily the fairest
and the best way to do it as this community'begins to
grow out.
' During the past year, the advisory committee that
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
43
was appointed by the Board of County Commissioners spent
a significant amount of time in reviewing a number of
alternative methods for assessing this community for the
operation and maintenance and of the services that
Pelican Bay Services Division provides to you..
What we came up with was a methodology based on the
number of units that are within the community. It's very
similar to the way that you pay for your assessment in
the Foundation. Each of you pay roughly $150'.or $'200 per
year for living in Pelican Bay to the private Pelican Bay
of Naples Foundation.
We believe that the type of services we provide,
and remember there are landscaping services and there are
some street sweeping services and there's water
management services, which is the maintenance of all of
the lake areas and the berms of Pelican Bay, residents
within this. community primarily benefit equally from
those operating and maintenance services.
As a result of that analysis~ the advisory
committee is recommending to the Board of County
Commissioners this evening that it adopt a methodology
that uses equivalent residential units, the number of
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
44
units within Pelican Bay, to base the assessments for
next year for the operations and maintenance portion of
this community.
That means each of you will pay essentially the
same amount of money, $145.92 per unit, for the services
that the Pelican Bay division will be providing to this
community. In sum and Substance, that's it.
I want to make it clear that we have always done
and charged for these services based on a non-ad valorem
assessment. Pelican Bay community has never paid for
these services on an ad valorem basis; that is, based
upon the value of your home. It's always been on an
assessment based methodology.
All we are essentially talking about tonight is
changing that methodology from an acreage based method to
a per unit base method, the same way you pay for your
foundation services, to more equitably distribute the
cost of the operations a.nd maintenance of this system to
all of you eqlfally and based on th~ fact that you
primarily all benefit equally from the services that we
provide to you.
, The second part of the assessment that you see on
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
45
your tax bill again has always been there. It's the debt
service that Bernie Just talked to you about on the prior
Pelican Bay Improvement District bonds. That is being
levied on an acreage basis.
There's nothing that this Board could do about the
way that is assessed. That is set and was set by court
decree in 1979 for the prior Pelican Bay Improvement
District, and I don't believe there's much leeway that
this Board has in changing that methodology. So that
will need to stay there until these bonds get paid off.
The advisory committee did not proceed to redeem
these bonds in the two-year period as it has proposed
under.this operating budget. Those bonds will
essentially stay out there, I believe, another 15 years.
And you would see that debt on your assess -- on your tax
bills each year.
So the proposal that Bernie.has put forth before
the Board tonight obviously gets rid of that debt. Our
budget anticipates getting rid of. it in the next two
years. After that'time frame all you would be assessed
for is the operations and maintenance of the services
that we are providing, and that is approximately $145 per
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
46
unit per year for each of you.
further com]nents. ·
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
this item?
If you'd identify yourself.
MR. SPRIGS:
Bay resident.
With that I have no
Thank you.
My name is Tom Sprigs.
Questions on
I'm a Pelican
I would like to know the basic difference to The
Waterside Shops, the Ritz-Carlton Hotel and the Registry
Resort as a result of this change.
MR. WARD: The hotels, I believe, saw very little
change in their per unit assessments. The Waterside
Shops -- most of the commercial areas saw a slight
increase in their assessments.
MR. SPRIGS: Okay.
MR. MANBUKA: What does that mean?
MR. wARD: That means based upon what they paid
last year versus the proposed number for this-year it's
relatively the same number.
MR. MANBUKA: Excuse me, my name's Lou Manbuka.
Are they paid on a per unit basis?
MR. WARD: Yes, sir.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL .33962'
47
MR. MANBUKA: Per group?
MR. WARD: Per unit. The hotels have been
converted to a unit count, not based on acreage. Two
hotels got 274 units in them each. The commercial
property.has also been converted to a number of units
that are benefiting from the operations and maintenance
of our improvements. So essentially they're paying the
same dollars or a little bit more, actually, than they
were paying the prior year.
MR. YOUNG: That's a good point that maybe is
worthy of mentioning because I've been asked well how can
you raise more money with this assessment under the
taxing district than ypu raise in the Foundation?
Because remember our Foundation payments are $200
and our payment now with the taxing district is $145.
Well, the reason is we don't assess in the Foundation the
commercial areas of Pelican Bay nearly as hard.as we
assess them under the taxing district. So we. end up with
more units under the taxing district than we get under
the Foundation.
The' reason for that is the commercial people don't
use our private facilities. You know, they're not
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
48
allowed to comedown to our beach and use our trams and
so forth. So that's a point that -- it's a little hard
to get clear, but'once you get it clear -- you've got two
avenues of revenue in Pelican Bay.
For our private Foundation, we have a Foundation
assessment of $200. For our municipal taxing district we
have 145. They both raise about the same amount of
money, but we hit the commercial people harder under the
taxing district and that's why our individual assessment
is less.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
Commissioner Volpe?
Mr. Ward, this change in
methodology, this is embodied in the resolution that's
been presented to the Board?
MR. WARD: .It has.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: This proposal here, does this
replace the'current assessment roll and establish a new
final'assessment roll for the prop~rties within. Pelican'
Bay community?
MR. WARD: I think each year you go through and
establish an assessment roll for the Pelican Bay
community based upon whatever methodology you'.re going to
oFFICIAL COURT ~EPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL .33962
utilize. This resolution essentially codifies and
confirms the preliminary assessment roll as the final
assessment roll for Pelican Bay and levies that
assessment on the property.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: So next year if we decided
that we wanted to go back to the acreage basis, we could
go back to an acreage basis?
MR. WARD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Other questions?
Mr. Johnson.
MR. JOHNSON: Harold Johnson, Glencove.
I think what you're asking the Board to do here is
change an arrangement that they've had for ten years.
And I think if we talk about being fair, we h~ve in this
room maybe 100 to 200 people. On the assessable units,
we have not five, not six, but 7,968 people that are
assessed and this (indicating) is. just a very minute part
of the people that live in Pelican Bay. We have people
in Glencove that live in Germany ~nd Canada. They're not
here. This gentleman (indicating) made the point that we
have about 60 percent of our people not here. I
understand your problem as far as the taxes and I see no
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL '33962
50
p~oblem in approving the tax.
I'm going to recommend you contact everyone that's
involved with this, and I'm talking about a mail-in
ballot, outline the whole thing and also the two years
that you will pay off the bonds, which is not expl.ained
too good. I think that would be fair and not just a
simple majority that makes your decision for you.
I see no reason to delay your budget. You have a
lot of other people to talk to. I feel that there's
7,968 property owners and just a fraction are represented
here.
MR. WARD: Let me go over with the Board what we
did this past year in .order to try and address-the
concerns of Mr. Johnson. The advisory committee
beginning I believe in October or November of last year
essentially began the analysis process of this change in
assessment methodology.
I wrote a letter for the Pelican Bay of. Naples
Foundation communique which we seht to all .of the
residents in April of 1993 advising them of the proposed
change in' methodology and inviting them all to
essentially a public hearing for the advisory committee
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL .33962
12
in April of 19 -- April 7th, 1993 to answer any questions:
and address any concerns that they may have. That
meeting was well attended.
In addition to that, I made the rounds and spoke at
both the Foundation's annual meeting and had a meeting
also with all of the presidents of the condominium
associations within Pelican Bay to advise them what was
going on, what the change meant, how it affected them and
answer and address any questions or concerns ~hat they
had.
I think when we got to the final April 7th meeting
of the advisory committee we had a lot of good discussion
with .respect to this change and a lot of good discussion
of what the alternatives Were.
Clearly in my mind I think the consensus of that
meeting was that the proposed method that you have before
you tonight is the chosen way, so. to speak, in. which to
proceed to assess this community for the operations and
maintenance g6ing into next year.. I believe most
residents that were in attendance of that meeting believe
that that's the way we should proceed.
., Additionally, I believe the advisory committee that
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
52
you have set up. for'Pelican Bay has unanimously agreed
that this is the proposed method in which they're
recommending to the Commission that they proceed with
adopting this evening.
I don't disagree with Mr. Johnson. I mean, clearly
I'd like to have all of the community's input as best we
can. I clearly think that we did absolutely the best
that we Could during season, which I think was Mr.'
Lemley's concern, last year to make this community aware
of this proposed change and how it affected them and to
get their input on what they wanted to do going into next
year.
.CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: I guess in response to that,
by a showing of hands how many people were aware other
than since this meeting of the proposed change?
(Hands were raised.)
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
reasonably well.
question, ma'am?
MS. DORWELL:' Susie Dorwell, Pelican Bay resident.
My question is I think we all went along with this
equitable $150, 145 as it turned out. What surprises
So the word was spread
I'm trying to get a feel for -- another
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
53
everyone is the debt service. That wasn't expected, and
that was not mentioned at all of these presentations that
you gave. I think that's why we have such a big
attendance here and people are chitchatting about it.
MR. WARD: Clearly I think my focus was on the
change in.methodology for the operations and maintenance.
I'll be the first to tell you that we had no desire to
discuss the debt service issue. That is something that's
always been on their assessment bills for many years and
there was Just nothing we could do about that
methodology.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Excuse me. So I understand,
does that question relate to the water management?
MR. WARD: I think her question is when the notices
went out there were two parts to it, one showing the $145
and the other part says here's your. assessment for debt
service on the prior PBID bonds.
During my public ~earing process, so to speak,
during the season, we didn't focus'on the debt 'service on
those prior PBID bonds, essentially because there was
nothing to be done about them. It's been there for 10 or
12, years now and will continue to be there for a number
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
54
of'years. We focussed on the change in methodology for
th~ operations and maintenance of these facilities,
primarily because that's all we were doing in terms of
changing things.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
MR.'FORD: Nick Ford,
Sir.
531 Serendipity.
I attended that April 7th meeting, I believe it
was, and there were fewer people then than there are now.
I think we're able to say it was a well attended meeting
of the ownership.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: When we had it at the church
there was four times that many people in the meeting as
there are right here. The place was ja~ed.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
to --
Ail right. We'll start
MR. FORD: I would afford Mr. Johnson's suggestion
here that when you're making a basic change you should
get the vote of the membership.
a committee. '
that.
It shouldn't be done by
COMMISSIONER'VOLPE: I think I need to respond to
Mr. Cuyler, are these types of matters when it
comes to a change in assessment methodology subject to a
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
55
permissive referendum?
MR. CUYLER: No, they are not. This is a decision
that the Board of. County Commissioners has to make.
And to answer your earlier question, often the
Board will have some alternatives with regard to an
assessment. As long as it is a reasonable, rational
allocation of the cost to those persons benefited, then
it's legally defensible.
A lot of times the number crunching may be under
discussion, but with' regard to the basis for the
assessment, yes, this appears to be. And not only that,
but the Board of County Co~issioners has an obligation
to make sure that if a. change is needed or necessary, and
I'm not saying that it is or is not a subject of
discussion tonight, but if the Board finds that there's a
change in the community that makes another method more
equitable, then they're under somewhat of an obligation
to determine if that is'the case.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Sir.'
MR. LEMLEY: I would again ask for the citation --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: If you would again state --
" MR. LEMLEY: My name.is Arthur Lemley. I reside at
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
Barrington Club.
I would again ask for the citation upon which you
base your opinion. That not being the major issue, I
would like to clear up a couple things I feel have been
at best poorly represented.
The statement that the communique was sent to all
residents is not a fact. The communique is only sent to
those residents who come to this office and pay a charge
to have the communique sent to them. In other cases the
communique is distributed by I don't know who 'to
sometimes I don't know where. Since I reside in a
condominium I can tell you that the majority of the time
I do not see the communique.
When I called the office and inquired about it,
they said if I wanted it delivered by mail I'd have to
come out here and sign up and pay to do it. So it is not
delivered to each and every resident of the community as
to what I'm to~d.
Secondarily, the meetings that were held with the
associations, because of the status of construction in
Pelican Bay, would mean that a significant number of
thOse meetings were held With the developers since they
OFFICIAL COURT 'REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
:757-
-~ ~i L. -
are at this point the association.
Now, if those meetings were held with the
developer, certainly a number of us were never told by
our developers that any meeting of any significance was
being held with anybody regarding this issue. I don't
know if you met with our developer or not, but I know you
didn't meet with our owners.
For those reasons I would say that Mr. Johnson's
suggestion that a poll be taken of all residents of
Pelican Bay would be the equitable way to reach a
decision. I'm not saying that this is a referendum since
that's prohibited, but certainly an opinion of the owners
could.be garnered very. easily and let everyone have the
opportunity to participate.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Part of the purpose of the
public hearing this evening is, presumably all of you
received some type of notification of the public hearing,
is for the Board to solicit Just this type of.input and
to hear not only the types of comments that we've heard
so far but for us to hear specifically where there is
some inequity. For example, the question that this
gentleman was asking as to whether commercial properties
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
were being treated differently than residential
properties.
Are there some specific concerns that you have
concerning the methodology, because we go through this on
a regular basis. We were just through this with the
Naples Production Park where we had property owners who
were saying the methodology as it impacts upon me is
inequitable and it's not fair.
MR. LEMLEY: What I would question initially would
be at whose behest was any suggestion made to change the
methodology? I don't understand that.
Would I say that we all receive equal value of the
services? I could not agree with that. I think that the
theory of equivalent residential units is grossly unfair
to the vast majority of the property owners who are in
Pelican Bay. The distribution of the beautification
programs and services in my estimation is not equitable
amongst the residents.
Certainl~ a condominium that'has 200 feet of
frontage on Gulf Drive is not enjoying the same level of
say eye appeal that a significant number of the private
residences on very heavily landscaped boulevards are; nor
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
§9
do we as a matter'of course make it a habit to drive
through the community and say, Gee, I want to see some
beautiful landscaping, I'll come through this area.
The services may be available to all of us, the
beautification programs certainly are there, but to say
that they are equal to me would be the equivalent of
saying why don't we just take the required revenues
needed to be raised from Pelican Bay and assess our taxes
on an equivalent residential unit since we all share
equally in the benefits of Pelican Bay? I don't think
they go hand in hand. The benefit is there. Is it
equitable? No.
· COMMISSIONER VOLpE= So is it your position that
condominium unit owners d~ not receive th6 same benefit
as do single-family residences?
MR. LEMLEY: That would be my position..
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Ward, can you Address the
question as to the benefit?
MR. WARD: sure. I think when you look'at the -- I
think when you look at the services that were provided,
la'ndscaping services of this community and the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
maintenance of the water management system, the location
of any specific unit within this community is not
necessarily the primary determining factor in determining
Whether or not you benefit from the services that we
provide. ·
This community benefits wholly from all of the
services that are provided to you. There's not a lot of
question about that. Because Mr. Lemley lives on the
east side of this project down on 41 and I have another
resident who may live over in Glencove who is the same
kind of unit, a condominium unit, whether Glenview or one
of the St. Simone or St. Nicole, he's telling you that
just because you live on the east side of this project
that he doesn't benefit the same way because he's a
multi-family unit because he lives somewhere on the west
side. I don't necessarily ascribe to that fact.
Clearly I think the major, arterial roads.in this
community, Pelican Bay ~oulevard, Gulf Park Drive,
Crayton Road, West Boulevard, Glenview Court, et cetera,
they're all traversed by this community fairly equally.
There's not a significant number of changes between who
g~es .where and when and what. We all come to the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL .33962
61
Fo~ndation. weall,go aroUnd this community.
I'll agree with him to the extent that some of
those units on the east side may not necessarily come
within the constraints or confines of this community as
much as someone who lives in Glenview or Glencove, but
you benefit from all of the facilities that we provide to
yOU.
Your property values are essentially increased
because of the services that we provide. If any of the
services were not provided here, you would essentially
see some sort of a decrease in all of the values that are
here within this community. Ail we're trying to do is
equitably determine whg should pay for it.
I don't ascribe to ~he argument that just because
you're a condominium owner and you live on the east side
of Pelican Bay that you should pay a lesser rate than if
you live on the west side of Pelican Bay. If the
condominium benefits less, then it has to be all
condominiums benefit less.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Mr. Ward, let me ask you a
question on that question of the condominium units. All
condominium unit owners will be paying the same wherever
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
they are in PeliCan Bay?
same.
MR. WARD:
Ail unit owners would be paying the
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
unit owners as well?
MR. WARD: Correct.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
Single family and condominium
The same argument applies to
the street lighting. For example, a condominium complex
may have one street light out in front of it, but still
all units -- it's all part of the general neighborhood.
It's all part of Pelican Bay and you use it.
MR. LEMLEY:
ad valorem basis?
MR. WARD:
iS.
Isn't the street lighting done on an
Yes, sir, it is. In this community it
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: It doesn't have to be. It
Just happens in this case that it'is.
MR. wARD: Let me tell you Mr. Lempky -~
MR. LEMLEY: It's Lemley.
MR. WARD: Sorry.
The ad valorem issue was looked at by the advisory
committee at length. And I think you have to.recognize
62 ,:
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL .33962
63
in. the Pelican Bay community we are still not totally
built out within this community. So there's still some
value in this community or ad valorem value in this
community that's going to increase over time.
What we found when we looked at that is if we
switched this assessment essentially to an ad.valorem
based tax going into next year, you're going to move who
pays that tax off the undeveloped property and onto the
developed property because there's no value on
undeveloped land in Pelican Bay.
So clearly what the advisory board looked at was
finding out when we're going to be fully developed out
here, and then we think it probably would be appropriate
to switch to an ad valorem based tax for all residents in
this community just like we do street lights.
But I don't think you all want to do that this
year. That won't benefit you for the next few years
until we complete the north end of this project, and most
specifically oomplete some of the Bay Colony p~ojects.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Gentleman in the back.
MR. GOODMAN: I'd like to address myself to two
points.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLiER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
64
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
as well?
MR. GOODMAN:
Pelican Bay, USA.
Could you identify yourself
Stan Goodman, Ridgewood Drive,
The first one I'd like to address is on the point
of no notice. I really don't know where everybody's
been, but I've been to the meetings that have been
announced for the last seven or eight months; the
meetings of the advisory group, the meetings at the
church, the meetings all over. There's been adequate --
as a matter of fact, sometimes the notices are coming so
often that you just get tired of looking at them.
ut those notices of those meetings explain exactly
what will be spoken about,' what will be talked about,
have been sent to all of us. I have not been living in a
vacuum. My neighbor'tells me he gets them all. Which
meeting should I go to? So I want to say there has been
a lot of notice.
If peopre .didn't pay attention to it, that may be a
problem of theirs,'but I know I've been receiving these
notices. And you know I've been coming to these advisory
g=oup meetings from time to time and I'm not on the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES,
FL 33962
65
adwisory group.
Two, I would Just like to say one thing about the
benefits we're talking about, the B issue, this taxation
or what we'll have to pay. I note that the
beautification of Pelican Bay serves us all. 'Every
entrance serves us all. Every boulevard that we drive on
that has trees and medians that are beautified serves us
all.
There are many people on many streets in Pelican
Bay who live in single-family units. They don't have a
single bush provided by the -- I don't know if we'd call
it the PBID anymore, but whatever it is, the Pelican Bay
district.
MR. WARD:
The service district.
MR. GOODMAN: So I know along Ridgewood there isn't
a single tree being provided by this service. I know in
front of many of the condominiums there are large areas
of beautification strips, and that. serves'the'whole
community.
I think this is -- we just can't divide every
service provided by government absolutely equally. As
long as we get someplace close to a midline, someplace
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL '33962
66
close to an equity that serves us all -- and I was to the
meeting when these 15 people, 13 men and 2 women,
thrashed it out. They went through everything that was
heard here. They wrung their hands and they said this is
the best we can do. And I, as an outsider, not a member
of the board, I feel this is a fair and equitable plan.
Thank you.
(Applause)
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Yes.
DR. KANE: My name is Pat Kane. I'm also a Pelican
Bay resident.
It's exciting for me to listen to the various
peopl~ talk and what they're really concerned about is
not the way to divide up the $145.90 but it's the concern
about the debt service that we're all stuck with, okay?
All of us bought into Pelican Bay at a time when we
thought we Were buying some neat property and built
houses or buy a new condominium or whatever else. We
thought the price we paid was unequivocably a premium
compared to Golden Gate or East Naples or anywhere else.
We paid a premium price. We thought we were buying
s~ething for it.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL .33962
67
What turns out is Westinghouse was able in 1977
through the PUDs, this document right here (indicating),
to create a taxing district which you three gentlemen and
the two that are not here are representing us, all of us,
and not East Naples and not Golden Gate, but you're
representing me, on the board of that taxing district,
okay?
That taxing district now is to make decisions
whether we pay off the debt and how we divide the dollars
that are going to be spent on the continuation of that,
and Westinghouse House was able to get away with doing
that.
They created this taxing district. They charged a
bond .issue to pay it off in the future by the landowners
and the unit owners and everybody else. And that's all
well and good if we can either by this board or by the
county board, which you both represent, hold Westinghouse
to its responsibility they created in the PUD;. And
there's several things that came through in the PUD that
Westinghouse attempts to not live up to.
And I would just like, if you don't mind, a show of
hands of the members here who are presently a member of
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL .33962
68
th~ golf course.
(Hands were raised)
DR. KANE: That's great.
Westinghouse had a responsibility as part of the
PUD to create land for the county, and we've got land for
a parking lot next to the Ritz-Carlton. We've got land
for Clam Pass Park. Are you all aware of that? They're
also supposed to build a 15-acre or 20-acre county park
which we fought over last year and it's supposed to be
built but it hasn't quite happened yet; the public
library, et cetera.
They were also supposed to provide land for
neighborhood parks. They claimed this area was
supposedly restricted for use as a neighborhood park and
in some other areas.
They were also supposed to provide for the school
board sites, a middle school site and an elementary
school site. The middle school site has been b~ught off
by Westinghouse with the school board and they bought off
40 acres on 951 where a new school is being built, 20
acres of which is a swamp and unbuildable.
The other piece of property we got for that is off
OFFICIAL COURT ~EPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
69
the Livingston Road extension which is a 20-acre site,
elementary school site, and to this date not useable.
The other piece of property which is fiext to your 15-acre
community park is presently under litigation because
Westinghouse does not want to turn that over to the
school board. They don't believe that the school board
'will ever build an elementary school there and therefore
they want a -- what's the word? A reversal clause.
MR. ROCKWELL: You go ahead and finish because I'll
tell you the other side.
DR. KANE: At any rate, that's under litigation
right now and is not being supported by the county. The
school board is debating or fighting this issue.
In fact, when I have to pay off the debt for the
sewer, the water, the sprinkler system and the medians
that I thought I paid for when I spent $140,000 for a
lot. You know, I.could have bought a lot of lots in East
Naples, Marco Island and Golden Gate for $140,000.. I
thought I was getting something. I'm getting an
opportunity to pay off somebody else's debt.
And so when I look at the positive and the
ne~atives, I want to see some of that positive come
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL .33962
7O
through and it Just isn't happening. Westinghouse is not
being compelled to give us the things that theY
negotiated back in 1977 when they created the PUD.
And for anyone here who isn't aware of this, the
PUD is a great document. It's a wonderful piece of paper
that says'this is how we're going to divide up three
square miles of pristine property among the state, the
county, the neighborhoods and the people that want to buy
there, and Westinghouse. Westinghouse wanted to make
money and they have every right to make money.
We're ending up fighting over it. And I think the
$145 is not important, but the debt service is. I don't
see the county board coming through and making sure that
Westinghouse lives up to their portion of the.agreement'
for which they're responsible.
Those of you who are aware of the Oakmont Park,
it's considered a nine acre park.. Seven and a half acres
· of that is a lake. Now,. I have never been able to enjoy
the bottom of % lake in Pelican Ba~ and I don't think I
ever will be, but that's how we appropriate the land and
it's just not right.
~ COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Just to comment, Dr. Kane, if
OFFICIAL COURTREPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
71'
you're finished, and that has to do with our
responsibility vis-a-vis the school board. I do not and
will not profess to speak for the school board as it
relates to the litigation that is ongoing between
Westinghouse Community of Naples and the school board.
The school board -- I'm sure that you've taken that
message, and if you haven't I would suggest that you take
the message to the school board, but for us to take --
for me to take a position, I'm not sure how my colleagues
feel, but for me to take a position with respect to the
negotiations between the school board and Westinghouse
Community of Naples, I think, would be inappropriate.
DR. KANE: To that extent, tonight are you
representing, you know, Second District and Fifth
District and Third or are you representing all the people
that live in Pelican Bay?
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Not only today but every other
day that I sit as a member of the Board of county
Commissioners I represent the community.
DR. KANE: Pelican Bay Community or Pelican --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: I represent Pelican Bay as
well as Collier County.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES,'FL '33962
72
DR. KANE:
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
Collier County.
DR. KANE:
How about our other friends?
We all represent all of
So you don't represent us when you're
sitting here tonight deciding how --
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
Pelican Bay.
DR. KANE:
MR. MANBUKA:
Certainly we represent
Okay.
We're part of the county..
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
DR. KANE: That's it.
.CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
Anything else?
Thank you.
Anyone else have questions, comments? Anyone that
has not spoken?
Go ahead.
MR. MANBUKA: Ail I would like to say is I think
what we had before was one extreme and what we're going
to now is the'other extreme. There's been a history in
this country to pay -- to get services paid by a property
tax and now we're changing the whole ball game.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Further comment?
MR. LEMLEY: Arthur Lemley.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, 'FL 33962
!
73
I would again say that I think the issue before us
really is not the sum of the $200. I don't think there's
anybody in here that isn't willing and capable and.ready
to pay this money whatever way is determined.
I think what this meeting has pointed out is that
there are either serious misunderstandings or total lack
of understanding as to what's being done and why it's
being done. There is no pressing urgency for the
Commission to at this meeting, at this time, make a
change in how this is being done.
The monies will be there as they're needed no
matter what system is used for the duration of this
hearing and the period in question as the finances.
'Accordingly, I would say that perhaps the best
thing the Commission could do is simply let things stand
as they are for the time being until some further
investigation can be done.
I wodld personally agree.with Mr. Johnson, let's
poll the people here and get an opinion of all.of the
people and see what they say and let that direct.the
Commission.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Mr. Norris.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
~?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Isn't that exactly what will
happen, though, if we try to change the system, only it
won't happen this next fiscal year, this next taxing
year, in any case, will it?
MR. WARD:
November.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
late date?
MR. WARD:
adopt that roll.
Yes, it's on the bills that come out in
We still have time at this
That's what you're doing tonight if you
It'll be on the November bills.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Mr. Johnson.
MR. JOHNSON: I think it's presumptuous,' Mr. Ward,
for you to assume that'the advisory board represents
7,968 owners in Pelican Bay. There's 15 people on the
board. There's over 7,900 people that you haven't
contacted. A bunch of them. That's why I recommend a
mail-in ballot. I think that's.a fairer way t~ do it.
MR. JURACEK: L6u Juracek. I live on Ridgewood
Drive.
I disagree with Mr. Johnson and this gehtleman
(indicating) because this discussion iljustrates how few
people are interested in their government. Let's put
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL .33962
white where it is and black where it is. Too many people
live a happy life and care less about government until
some little issue comes along.
And some person like Mr. Johnson's trying to
represent everybody who doesn't care. That's my concern.
(Applause.)
MR. JURACEK= They don't come to the meetings and
everybody sits on their little bottom at home sitting
watching television or something. That's our problem in
this world today.
MR. JOHNSON: You might get 7,900 people at your
meetings.
'MR. JURACEK= That would be a wonderful thing. I'd
like to see 7,000 people there.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: This gentleman right here.
MR. TUTHILL: My name is Gray Tuthill. I live in
Pelican Bay'Woods~
The gentleman fro~ Laurel Oaks, is that.~ight?
MR. LEMLEY: No, it's not.
half,
MR. TUTHILL: Barrington Club. Excuse me, sir.
I believe you've only been here a year, year and a
is that a fair statement?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL .33962
76
MR. LEMLEY: Is my opinion worth less?
MR. TUTHILL: No, I'm saying have you lived here a
year, year and a half?
MR. LEMLEY: About that.
MR. °TUTHILL: I'm Just saying I've been here since
1986 and I'm in a single-family home. I have been paying
my share, very frankly, plus some. I very frankly don't
agree with his (indicating) comment. I think it should
be more equitable.
I did attend these meetings. I do understand the
concept. And I understand that yes, it is going to cost
the condominium owners a little bit more money, but very
frankly, I've been paying ~hat much more for a number of
years. Why shouldn't they start paying their fair share?
And very frankly, let's move on with this. And
Mr. Johnson, there's not 7900 units yet. That's what
will be. So you can't r.each that many people yet.
That's at buil~-out.
MR. JOHNSON:- That's the assessable units.
MR. TUTHILL: That's at build-out.
· MR. YOUNG: That's assessable units. That's the
point we need to clear up.
OFFICIAL COURT 'REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
77
MR. WARD: Assessable units, the 7900 that we're
using in this program, represent all possible units that
can be constructed within this community. We have a
density on a parcel that's not been developed, so there's
a significant number of units in there that that
undeveloped parcel will pay for, but there are no
condominiums or anything on that parcel at this
particular time.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Ma'am?
MS. KRUEGER: I'm Jan Krueger. I'm from the
Barrington as well.
I do feel that we really should have gotten some
sort of notification b~fore this letter had been sent
because we've lived here since October and this is the.
only correspondence we have received or notification that
there was previous meetings.
So I do feel that the neWpeople coming into the
area should be. told by the developer or the b6ilder or
whomever, but should be reached.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Mrs. Barsh.
MRS. BARSH: I take exception with the words of the
gentleman at the end of this row. I am interested in
*'OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL '33962
government, as you well know.
meetings every Tuesday.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
the last several months, Mrs. Barsh.
Every Tuesday I am here.
MRS. BARSH:
the --
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
I am at the commission
Now we haven't seen you for
I am at
I'm Just trying to add a
little levity to our meeting.
MRS. BARSH: I had a daughter that was married up
north and I had to go to my daughter's wedding.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: We will accept that.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Family over government,
okay.
78
MRS. BARSH: I have not seen you at any 'one of
hundreds of meetings that I ever attended.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: If we can keep the
discussion to the issue and not towards each o~her's
personalities..
MRS. BARSH: However, what I am driving at 'is that
I have not received any notification of meetings, and you
all know that I would be at the meetings if I had
notification, the advisory board or of any others.
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79
So I feel that Mr. Johnson is making a good point.
People are not' informed. The communications are not out
there, and this should be recognized.
(Applause)
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Mr. Norris.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Let's assume that we say that
perhaps there has been some lack of notification possibly
in the past and that we recognize that and Mr. Ward I saw
making notes to maybe take corrective action for the
future, so maybe we could move on to other issues.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Good idea.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Is there anything new that
anyone wants to add to. this particular item before we
move on?
Matam.
MS. KOFFER:
I'm Eloise Koffer, Barrington Club.
I'd like to.know the history of special
assessments. Is there a' special assessment every year?
MR. WARD: Yes, there has b~en a special assessment
within this community for operations and maintenance of
this system and debt service from prior PBID bonds since
1980.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, .COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
33962
8O
MS. KOFFER: Okay.' Why is the current ad valorem
assessments we have, they don't relate to Pelican Bay? I
don't know to whom it is addressed.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Are you talking about non-ad
Yalorem assessments?
MS. KOFFER: Right, on the property tax bill.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE: Non-ad valorem assessments?
MR. WARD: As far as Pelican Bay Services Division
is concerned, we have one non-ad valorem assessment
that's on your tax bill each year. It's essentially in
the amount that's sent out to you in the notification
that you've got. I'm not aware of any additional non-ad
valorem assessments that are on the tax bills'for Pelican'
Bay.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
separately, isn't it?
MR. DORRILL:
MS. KOFF. ER:
Solid waste probably is billed
That is not non-ad valorem.
It says waste, roads, Water 'and sewer.
MR. WARD: Again' the numbers that were prdvided t°
you in the notification that you received from my office,
that's on your tax bill each year. And the number that's
on the bill has always been on your tax bill. That's the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962
81
only one I'm aware of.
MR. ROCKWELL: It's shown as water and sewer
because it's not in that form. Down below it's under
non-ad valorem and on the right-hand side it says water
and sewer and it's really water management.
MS.'KOFFER: This is in addition?
MR. WARD: No, it is the same assessment that's
been on your bill since 1980.
MS. KOFFER: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
Commissioner Norris?
COM~ISSIONER NORRIS:
If there's no other --
I Just wanted to follow up
one little bit. I think Dr. Kane's -- I'm not sure he
understood what Mr. Constantine and I said.
Let me just further clarify. We are elected by
people in our districts and nowhere else. That's 'since'
1980. And we represent the entire county. We represent
everyone. Tonight we're here representing no one but the
people in Pelikan Bay Improvement. District, so we are
here to represent you and the folks in this room and
everyone else who is out in Pelican Bay.
DR. KANE: That was the point. I wasn't trying to
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962~
82
be confrontational at all. You're here for me.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I thought I saw, you know, a
look of maybe that I had not expressed myself correctly
the first time.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:. If there's nothing else,
this is a public hearing.
MR. DORRILL: You do need to take a motion.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
hearing closed.
COMMISSIONER VOLPE:
We will consider the public
Mr. Chairman, based upon the
recommendations that we've received from our staff and
the input that we received this evening at this public
hearing, I'll make the .recommendation that we adopt the
resolution approving the preliminary assessment roll as
the final assessment roll for the Pelican Bay Municipal
Service Taxing District as presented this evening.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS:
CHAI~ CONSTANTINE:
I second that.
I have a motion and a
second.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE:
fa%or of the motion say aye.
Any further discussion?
Seeing none, all those in
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL .33962
83
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL .33962
(A chorus of "Ayes.")
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: All those opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Motion carries unanimously.
We do have a section here -- that will eh4 the
advertised public hearings. We have a section here for
public comments if anyone chooses, otherwise we are
adjourned.
MR. ROCKWELL: Gus Rockwell, a Pelican Bay
resident.
I have been appointed by the Board as a .member of
another advisory group for the beach renourishment and
I've Worked with that and just to -- the beach
renourishment committee continues to work towards
providing Collier County with better beaches and better
pass maintenance as the monthly meetings take place.
We are very'concerned about how it's all 'coming.
Good work is being done through the efforts of the staff
and the county plus some of the city people. .And.'this
advisory board, I hope in the near future, hopefully
within two years, are going to be able to start putting
sand on our beaches and start working with the passes.
84
T~ere are areas that are critical.
I was put on this probably because I was from
Pelican Bay and probably because of the fact that the
revenue from this comes from all of the hotels as room
tax and that obviously is a percentage. The Registry and
the Ritz-Carlton provide a substantial portion of that.
Pelican Bay will probably not receive a whole lot
of new sand coming from these -- the beach renourishment.
The reason for that, as it now stands, and the reason for
that is that our beaches are probably as good as any
within Collier County. There are some areas where at
high tide because people are allowed to build sea walls
their, beaches are almost non-existent, and we need to
work on that.
I will mention to the Commission the thing that the
Pelican Bay residents are very interested in obviously is
that once this tax is in place and more renour!shment
comes in and if we do have a problem we would expect we
would be trea~ed as the rest of the county, but we are as
much concerned with our pass. Clam Pass is an integral
part of the estuary system throughout Pelican Bay.
, At one point it was closed for a long period of
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL
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85
time. There was significant -- there could have been
significant damage to that estuary. We were able to work
with some permits and get that opened up and we hope to
That
be able to do that type of thing in the future.
really is what I wanted to say. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CONSTANTINE: Thank you very much.
On that note, we're adjourned.
(Proceedings concluded at 7:30 p.m.)
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS, COLLIER COUNTY, NAPLES, FL 33962