CCPC Minutes 02/03/2000 RFebruary 3, 2000
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 3, 2000
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Planning
Commission in and for the County of Collier, having conducted
business herein, met on this date at 8:30 a.m. in REGULAR
SESSION in Building F of the Government Complex, East Naples,
Florida, with the following members present:
VICE CHAIRMAN:
Michael Pedone
Russell A. Priddy
Kenneth C. Abernathy
Karen Urbanik
Gary Wrage
Michael J. Bruet
Sam M. Saadeh
Joyceanna J. Rautio
ALSO PRESENT:
Ron Nino, Planning Services
Marjorie Student, Assistant County Attorney
Page I
AGENDA
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION WILL MEET AT 8:30 A.M., THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 3,
2000 IN THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS MEETING ROOM, ADM/NISTRATION BUILDING,
COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTER, 3301 TAMIAMI TRAIL EAST, NAPLES, FLORIDA:
NOTE: INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO 5 MINLYrES ON
ANY ITEM. INDIVIDUALS SELECTED TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF AN
ORGANIZATION OR GROUP ARE ENCOURAGED AND MAY BE
ALLOTTED 10 MINUTES TO SPEAK ON AN ITEM IF SO RECOGNIZED
BY THE CHAIRMAN. PERSONS WISHING TO HAVE WRITTEN OR
GRAPHIC MATERIALS INCLUDED IN THE CCPC AGENDA PACKETS
MUST SUBMIT SAID MATERIAL A MINIMUM OF 3 WEEKS PRIOR TO
THE RESPECTIVE PUBLIC HEARING. IN ANY CASE, WRITTEN
MATERIALS INTENDED TO BE CONSIDERED BY THE CCPC SHALL BE
SUBMITtED TO THE APPROPRIATE COUNTY STAFF A MINIMUM OF
SEVEN DAYS PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC HEARING. ALL MATERIAL USED
IN PRESENTATIONS BEFORE THE CCPC WILL BECOME A
PERMANENT PART OF THE RECORD AND WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR
PRESENTATION TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IF
APPLICABLE.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THE CCPC
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING
THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A
VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH
RECORD INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH
THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
1. ROLL CALL BY CLERK
2. ADDENDA TO THE AGENDA
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: January 6, 2000
4. PLANNING COMMISSION ABSENCES:
5. BCC REPORT
6. CHAIRMAN'S REPORT
7. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. R-99-I 1, Alan D. Reynolds, AICP, of WilsonMiller, Inc., representing Long Bay Parmers, LLC,
requesting a rezone from "PUD" Planned Unit Development known as Livingston Road Country
Club to "A" Rural Agricultural for property located on the south side of the Livingston Road
east/west corridor, west ofi-75, in Section 13, Township 48 South, Range 25 East, Collier County,
Florida, consisting of 10± acres. (Coordinator: Ray Bellows)
PUD-99-16, Kevin McVicker, P.E., of Phoenix Planning and Engineenng, Inc., representing Gulf
Sun Development Corporation, requesting a rezone from "A" Rural Agriculture to "PUD" Planned
Unit Development to be known as Whippoorwill Pines PUD for a maximum of 210 residential
units for property located on the south side of Night Hawk Drive between Whippoorwill Lane and
Dog Ranch Road, tA mile south of Pine Ridge Road, in Section 18, Township 49 South, Range 26
East, Collier County, Florida, consisting of 29.54+ acres. (Continued from 1/20) (Coordinator:
Don Murray)
Go
PUD-99-26, Robert L. Duane, AICP, of Hole, Montes and Associates, Inc., representing H.B.
Holdings, requesting a rezone from "A" Rural Agricultural to "PUD" Planned Unit Development
to be known as La Sienna Estates at Olde Cypress for a maximum of 61 residential dwelling units
for property located north of Immokalee Road (C.R. 846), approximately 1.3 miles west of 1-75
and surrounded by the Olde Cypress PUD, in Section 21, Township 48 South, Range 26 East,
Collier County, Florida, consisting of 40.4:t: acres. (Coordinator: Ray Bellows)
CU-99-30, Karen Blackwell, representing Naples Equestrian Challenge Center, L.C., requesting
Conditional Use "10", "19", and "24" of the "A" zoning district for a therapeutic equestrian riding
facility on property less than 20 acres per Section 2.2.2.3 for property located on Ridge Drive,
further described as Lot 21, Block 1, Pine Ridge, in Section 10, Township 49 South, Range 25
East, Collier County, Florida. (Coordinator: Fred Reischl)
CU-99-31, Jason Williams of Johnson Engineering, Inc., representing Cocohatchee Nature Center,
requesting Conditional Use "23" of the "A-ST" zoning district for an ecotourism educational
facility per section 2.2.2.3 for property located west of U.S. 41 North on the Cocohatchee River, in
Section 21, Township 48 South, Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida, consisting of 2.19+ acres.
(Coordinator: Fred Reischl)
8. OLD BUSINESS
9. NEW BUSINESS
10. PUBLIC COMMENT ITEM
1 I. DISCUSSION OF ADDENDA
12. ADJOURN
2/3/00 AGEND/RN/im
2
February 3, 2000
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: I'd like to call to order the --
what's today's date -- the February 3rd -- 4th -- 3rd -- 3rd meeting
of the Collier County Planning Commission.
I'll start with the roll call.
Commissioner Priddy.
COMMISSIONER PRIDDY: Here.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE.' Commissioner Abernathy.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: Here.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Commissioner Urbanik.
COMMISSIONER URBANIK: Here.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Commissioner Pedone is here.
Commissioner Budd is absent.
Commissioner Wrage.
COMMISSIONER WRAGE: Here.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Commissioner Bruet.
COMMISSIONER BRUET: Here.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE:
Commissioner Rautio.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO:
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE:
Commissioner Saadeh is absent.
Here.
I'll look for a motion to approve
the minutes of January the 6th.
COMMISSIONER PRIDDY.' So moved.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: Second.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Any discussion?
THE COURT REPORTER: Can I get the so moved and the
second?
COMMISSIONER PRIDDY: I made the motion.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: I'm the second.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: And any discussion?
There being none, I'll call for the vote. All in favor, signify
by saying aye.
Opposed, none, motion carries.
Any planning commission absences?
There being none, we'll move on to BCC report.
MR. NINO: The last meeting of the Collier County
commissioners
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February 3, 2000
-- Ron Nino, for the record -- all petitions were approved,
endorsed by the -- approved by the board in the manner
consistent with your recommendations with the exception of
one. You may recall the variance for the six houses that Mr.
Sabatini (phonetic) wanted to construct with reduced side yards.
The board denied that petition.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No, it was withdrawn.
MR. NINO: I'm sorry. Thank you. While he saw the
handwriting on the wall, and he withdrew it.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Okay. Chairman's report; the
chairman is absent today, so we have no report from the
chairman, and we'll go on to advertised public hearings.
Before we start, anyone wishing to speak, I'd like to let
them know that they will be limited to five minutes on any item,
and if they are representing a group, we will allow ten minutes.
First case, R-99-11, Alan D. Reynolds.
MR. NINO: Need to swear them in, Mike.
(The speakers were sworn).
MR. BELLOWS: Good morning. For the record, Ray Bellows
with planning services staff.
The petitioner is requesting to rezone the subject ten acre
site from the Livingston Road Country Club PUD to agricultural.
As you can see, it's located on the south side of the east-west
Livingston Road right-of-way. It was part of the Livingston Road
PUD that came up around this way, and that little parcel was on
the south side of the east-west. When Livingston Road was
incorporated to the Mediterra PUD, this parcel remained and is
now pretty much not developable as the Livingston Road Country
Club. So, therefore, the petitioner is going to rezone it to
agricultural.
There's no consistency problem with the growth
management plan. No letters for or against this petition,
therefore, staff recommends that this petition be forwarded to
the Board of County Commissioners with the recommendation of
approval.
I'll be happy to answer any questions.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Any questions?
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February 3, 2000
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: I have a question. On the
first page of your report, you say that this remnant PUD parcel is
not developable as currently zoned, and then on the second
page, you say the approved PUD allows 120 multi-family dwelling
units on the subject ten acre parcel.
MR. BELLOWS: Yeah, the overall P -- the overall PUD
allowed for, I think it's 790 some units, a density of a little over
two units per acre. However, when the master plan is basically
amended, when the rest of the PUD became part of the Mediterra
PUD, there's no real master plan for this petition to work from.
Also, the density at ten acres at -- those many units results at
about 13 units per acre which is not consistent with the growth
management plan.
Therefore, they would have to amend the Livingston Road --
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY.' Okay. I got it, I got it. Thank
you.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Anyone for the petitioner?
MR. NINO: Yes, there is a speaker.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE.' Name, for the record?
MS. JENKINS: Anita Jenkins with Wilson, Miller
representing Bonita Bay Properties. I'll be happy to answer any
questions if you have any, but I don't intend to make a
presentation.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Any questions?
MR. NINO: If I might, for the record, this is not the first time
this has happened. You might recall the Casa Del Sol PUD,
subsequent to its approval was sold off in two different parcels,
and the one became Naples Forest Golf and Country Club, and
the effect of that action was to make the balance dysfunctional
because it related to a master plan that no longer was
applicable, and you have that same situation here.
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: Ron, what does this ten acres
ultimately get used for?
MR. NINO: They'll have to come back and rezone it to some
urban classification for residential purposes. They will have to
come back.
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: And there's -- there's access.
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February 3, 2000
MR. NINO.' I take that back. They will have to come back if
they intend to use it for some urban residential purpose.
Otherwise, they could leave it agricultural and sell it for an
agriculturally permitted use.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Anyone else?
MR. NINO: Yes, I have a speaker. John Kane wishes to
speak to this issue.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE.' Come on up, Mr. Kane, and were
you sworn in?
MR. KANE: No, I have not been.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: If you would swear in the --
(The speaker was sworn).
MR. KANE.' Hi. My name is John Kane.
I was given a notice on this issue because my property
happens to back right up to that property that we are discussing
today, those ten acres.
I built a $400,000 home there a year ago, okay, and right
exactly in that corner where they are going to be building behind
me, you see where that cul-de-sac is right in front of there, my
home is the one right exactly in the corner abutting that
property.
Now, I understand that there's growth in the area. There's
been growth all over the county, and it's essential because
there's no access to 75 or to that area from Imperial Golf Estates
where I live. So, it's definitely needed. There's needed a road of
access in there, and I have -- I'm not sitting here saying don't
allow these people to build a community, because that's
happening, but I will say this, that I've seen bobcats back there.
I've seen all kinds of animals back in that area. This is last
piece of woods that exist in that area.
On the north side of this site where they are building that
road right now, these people have come in and knocked down
the complete tree line that borders our property, which is
absolutely devaluating my property and my home. It was a nice
secluded area which was bordered by trees which are now
basically torn down on the north side. If they do this behind me,
I'm going to be looking out in my backyard into a golf club,
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February 3, 2000
which, you know -- I just would like you to consider the rezoning
of this property, that they're going to build the whole area out
and leave no woods down there. I just don't understand.
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: They're wanting to not build on
it and leave it in agricultural, leave it in woods.
MR. KANE: If that -- and like he said, if they have to come
back in and request a rezone to build on that property --
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: Well, the only way to not have
them build
on it at some point is for you to buy it.
MR. KANE: Is to buy it. I didn't realize that -- you know, up
until this point that that was -- I was told when I built this home
that that property was not -- that it was protected land. I guess
somebody had some idea that wasn't the truth~ but, you know, to
rezone that whole area, I mean, you're not leaving anything there
any longer. I mean, it's going to look like Cape Coral. You're
knocking down all the woods and building in every square
footage that you can, and I've got a problem with that, and I just
thought that you folks would consider that before you start
giving more variances and rezoning around that area.
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: Well, this is a variance to go to
agriculture, not to build anything.
MR. KANE: That's fine, okay. That, I did not understand. I
wanted to make sure and come here to speak my piece, so --
COMMISSIONER BRUET: Very good.
MR. KANE: Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER BRUET: Thank you.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Anymore -- any other people wish
to speak on the matter?
If not, I'll close the public hearing.
CHAIRPERSON BRUET.' Mr. Chairman, I recommend the
planning commission forward Petition R-99-11 to the Board of
County Commissioners for approval.
COMMISSIONER URBANIK: Second.
May I, that's with staff recommendation?
COMMISSIONER BRUET: Yes.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: I have a motion and a second.
Page 6
February 3, 2000
Any discussion?
Being none, I'll call for the vote. All in favor, signify by
saying aye.
Opposed; none, motion carries.
PUD-99-16, anyone wishing to speak, please stand up and be
sworn in.
(The speakers were sworn).
MR. MURRAY: Good morning. For the record, I'm Don
Murray, principal planner with the planning services department.
Before I get started, I wanted to just clarify that Mr. Mark
Bates, president of Gulf Sun Corporation is the owner entirety of
this property as clarified to me by the -- this PUD-99-16,
Whippoorwill Pines PUD is located approximately a half mile
south of Pine Ridge Road, and it's south of Night Hawk Drive and
along Whippoorwill Lane. The subject property is about 29.54
acres in size and is surrounded mostly by undeveloped
agricultural properties.
There is a single family home to the east, and this PUD also
is located within the mixed use urban residential subdistrict and
the residential density band of the Pine Ridge Road 1-75 activity
center, therefore, the allowable density would be four for the
base density, four units per acre and an additional three units or
up to three units per acre for a total of seven units per acre. This
PUD is proposing six units per acre, which is also compatible
with the proposed surrounding PUDs; Whippoorwill Lakes PUD on
the north side and Whippoorwill Woods on the south side.
If this PUD is approved, it will provide a lake, a preservation
area, buffers, and it will have access onto Whippoorwill Lane
which will provide access to Pine Ridge Road and also to the
future Livingston Road to the south and to the west.
It's also part of the Whippoorwill Lane study area which has
been discussed before this commission and also before the
Board of County Commissioners, and staff has made a
recommendation as written in the staff report recommending
approval of this PUD with the stipulations that address the
Whippoorwill Lane issues.
Are there any questions?
Page 7
February 3, 2000
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Does anyone have any
questions?
COMMISSIONER BRUET: The stipulations, Don, are
consistent with the stipulations that we've seen in the past --
MR. MURRAY: Yes --
COMMISSIONER BRUET: -- for this specific golfing area?
MR. MURRAY: Yes, they are.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Anyone else?
Does the petitioner wish to say anything?
MR. McVICKER.' For the record, Kevin McVicker,
representing Gulf Sun Development.
First, I'd like to begin by apologizing for being late last week
or last meeting.
Although my client has some concerns about some language
and specifically Paragraphs 5 and 6 of their recommendations,
he generally supports staff recommendations for Whippoorwill
Pines.
If you have any questions --
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE.' Any questions?
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY.' I have one question. Your
side yard setbacks for one story -- it's on Page 9 of your PUD.
MR. McVICKER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY-' You list them in terms of
zero and 15 are both seven and a half feet. I take it you're going
to build single family homes back to back or with a party wall?
Is that the way that works?
MR. McVICKER: That's the way that works.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: This ought to come out
looking like duplexes then, don't they?
Correct, it would be a villa. That's standard
MR. McVICKER:
language for a PUD --
VICE CHAIRMAN
PEDONE.' Anything else?
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: Would you please explain to me --
you said you had some concerns about Paragraphs 5 and 6. Are
those in the staff recommendation?
MR. McVICKER: Yeah, the concern being that if all the
property owners don't agree, he gets this property rezoned,
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February 3, 2000
closes it and there's one person holding out, he can't go forward
and the project sits, but with meetings with the staff, his
attorneys and -- feel comfortable that it all will work out.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: So, you're not concerned about
the actual issues of drainage or the -- MR. McVICKER: No, no--
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: -- sanitary sewer collection?
MR. McVICKER: No, no, no, no, it's just the open-endedness
that could arise from having to get all the cooperation of all the
property owners.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: It seems to be something that
everybody that owns property that's standing before us is
concerned about. I don't see the --
MR. McVICKER: There are certain property owners that are
already rezoned, and they don't have to technically follow that
rule.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: Would you clarify that for me?
MR. MURRAY: The land development code in Section
2.2.23.7, all development is required to have a time certain date
to meet the infrastructure and water and sewer utility amenities
that may be required for approval are in the PUD document.
It sounds, regardless of whether or not Whippoorwill Woods,
which was approved, the first one approved in this area, whether
or not they have that approval, it still will be mandatory for them
to meet any requirements for additional water and sewer or for
road right-of-way. Everybody has to do their fair share and meet
the requirements of the county, especially to connect to county
water and sewer lines.
I don't know if that answers your questions directly, but it is
mandatory pretty much in the land development code.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: Mandatory, thank you.
MR. McVICKER: That's exactly why he developed some
comfort level with it, but my client, after meeting with the county
staff --
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Any other questions for the
petitioner?
There being none, any -- anyone else from the public wish to
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February 3, 2000
speak?
I'll close the public hearing. Do I have a motion?
COMMISSIONER WRAGE: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion we
forward for approval PUD 99-16 subject to staff's stipulations.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: Second.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: I have a motion and a second.
Any discussion?
There being none, call for the vote. All in favor, signify by
saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response).
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE.' None. Motion carries.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: Aye.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE.' Oh, we did have one opposition.
Motion carries.
PUD-99-26, La Sienna Estates.
Will anyone wishing to speak, please stand and be sworn in?
(The speakers were sworn).
MR. BELLOWS: For the record, Ray Bellows.
The petitioner, Robert Duane is requesting to rezone the
subject site from agriculture to PUD. As you can see, the
subject site is located within the Olde Cypress PUD boundaries.
Olde Cypress is a PUD that was formerly known as the
Woodlands PUD. So, this is basically to fill in the hole within that
PUD.
The petitioner is requesting 61 dwelling units on the 40 acre
site, results in a density of 1.5 units per acre, which is consistent
with the growth management plan. As you can see on the
master plan, the project is designed around four lakes and open
space preserve areas along the perimeter of the site.
The access to the site is from the internal PUD roads from
Olde Cypress PUD. There is an existing access easement at the
southwest side of the site. However, the petitioner is working
out an access agreement with the developer of Olde Cypress to
provide an access at the northeast corner to Olde Cypress Drive.
Staff is recommending approval of this petition. It is
Paget0
February 3, 2000
consistent with the traffic circulation element, and the growth
management plan. Staff has not received any letters for or
against this petition, and I'll be happy to answer any questions.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE-' Any questions?
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: Yes, I have one. Since this
was
advertised as La Sienna Estates, shouldn't there be something in
the
record explaining why it's now --
MR. BELLOWS: Yeah, I'll be happy to. The County has an
addressing department. When this petition was advertised and
got to this point of public hearing, a new agreement with
addressing, because they felt the name La Sienna was not
acceptable. Therefore, the petitioner had to come up with a new
name, and that was just approved prior to this hearing. So, we
have a new PUD document, and I'm glad you pointed that out. I
would like to make that part of the record.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: Who was it that said the old
name was not good?
MR. BELLOWS: Our addressing department. They check for
emergency services. I guess if the name is over used or used or
reserved somewhere else, they can't use it.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: Is that a part of the planning
department or --
MR. BELLOWS: Building planning services department.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: Thank you.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Petitioner.
MR. DUANE: For the record, Robert Duane from Hole,
Montes & Associates. We're in agreement with the staff
recommendation, and I'd be happy to answer any questions you
may have.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Any questions?
Anyone else wish to speak on this item?
There being none, I'll close the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER URBANIK: I recommend we approve
PUD-99-26 and forward it to the Board of County Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: Second.
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February 3, 2000
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: I have a motion and a second.
Any discussion?
There being none, I'll call for the vote. All in favor, signify by
saying aye.
Motion carries.
Next, CU-99-30, Naples Equestrian Challenge, anyone
wishing to speak on this matter, please rise and be sworn in.
(The speakers were sworn).
MR. REISCHL: Good morning, commissioners. Fred Reischl,
planning services.
This is a conditional use request for a therapeutic riding
facility. It's located in the Pine Ridge subdivision. Here's
Goodlette Road, Center Street and Ridge Drive, so it's got the
three front yards, and this is the proposed conceptual site plan.
This facility, except for the parking, is existing. It was used
for this purpose for some time in the past. However, the use was
discontinued. Therefore, a conditional use is required for the
new owner to continue the same use.
There are three conditional uses listed in the resolution.
The first one is for a change in the code since this was first
developed, and that requires 20 acres for this kind of a facility.
They have 2.5 acres, and they are requesting that conditional
use to allow the riding academy on -- riding facility on less than
20 acres. The second is for a sports instructional school which
covers the students coming onto the campus and using this to
learn to ride, I believe, as you have in your packet, it's mostly
handicapped or children with disabilities, and the third
conditional use is for a school.
After discussions with the neighbors and the petitioner,
we've agreed to remove the use as a school basically to
safeguard any future use once the conditional use is granted. In
conversations with the neighbors, they were afraid that some
other kind of school would come along and be able to use this
site for that type of conditional use. Staff was comfortable
because the resolution does specifically state therapeutic riding
academy, but we have no problem removing conditional use ten
before it goes to the board, and the neighbors have also wished
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February 3, 2000
to clarify use nineteen by having an additional stipulation saying
it shall only be used for a therapeutic riding facility. Again, staff
was happy that that was already in the resolution, but, again, no
problem adding an additional clarification for it.
I received the one letter in favor that you have from the
neighbor to the south that most closely abuts the property not
adjacent -- not across any roads, they are directly adjacent, and I
had a couple of phone calls from neighbors who were concerned.
They didn't necessarily have an objection -- or they did not have
an objection to the facility, but they had concerns over people
who currently park on the right-of-way. The petitioner has stated
that with the new parking lot, they will encourage all the clients
to definitely use the parking lot and not park on the right-of-way.
We believe that's as far as you can go with parking on the
right-of-way, providing parking for people to use, and staff
recommends approval.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Any questions?
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: Yeah. Fred, is Center Street
open or is that one of the streets --
MR. REISCHL: Center Street is open, and that's the one
that's used primarily -- should be used primarily as the access.
That's -- of the two driveways that exist on the property, that's
the one that's going to connect to the future parking lot.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO.' I do have a clarification question.
On Page 4, you're talking about this riding facility will generate
approximately 50 to 100 average trips weekday, and in a petition
we're going to consider later that's right on 41, it says 50.
I was just wondering if you can clarify why you have this
information in here, because it seems to be not exactly
accurate?
MR. REISCHL: Well, it does seem excessive, and especially
since the facility is basically used on Saturdays, but it's based on
the standard trip generation manual. It's a standard number for a
facility of that size.
MR. BELLOWS: Yeah, I'd like to make a point of
clarification. The ITE trip generation manual is kind of a generic
type of calculation that are used, and that's not always the best
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February 3, 2000
fit. We could have tailored it to be a little more site specific in
this case, but we used -- generally, it's been staff policy to use
the trip rates as it comes from the manual, and in worst case
scenario, in a conditional use, if the site plan changed in the
future, still, we would know that the traffic impacts would be
covered.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: Because I don't think this has a
whole lot of impact at all, because it is such a limited use of the
property --
MR. BELLOWS: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: -- and has been for quite some
time.
MR. BELLOWS: And that's why a range is usually also given.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: I'll ask my same question of the
next petition to get it on the record. Thank you.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Any other question?
We'll hear from the petitioner.
MR. PICKWORTH: Good morning. My name is Don
Pickworth. I'm representing Naples Equestrian Challenge.
I just have a couple of comments, and then Karen Blackwell
will kind of tell you a little bit about the history of this site and
why we're here.
In reference to the initial comments from Mr. Reischl, the
resolution you've got there already says it's for a therapeutic
equestrian riding facility. It seems like that's fairly plain. I'm not
sure why we need to say it twice, but with regard to the
conditional use ten, schools, I don't remember my mental
analysis at the time we did the application, but for some reason,
I was concerned that not putting that in might lead to -- we
described what we wanted to do, and I was concerned that
without that, we might not have it. I'll be happy to revisit that
issue with the staff and the attorney's office afterwards. I have
no problem taking it out.
I mean, we have asked for a conditional use to do a certain
thing, and we are not trying to, you know, by the back door try to
do something else. We just want to make sure that we don't
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February 3, 2000
create something where after we go out and go to the
community to raise a lot of money for this program, that we are
not exposed to someone coming in and saying you really don't
have a conditional use to do that there. That's our concern from
our end. We need the certainty we can
do that. If we take out number ten, and we've still got that
certainty, we'll do it. If it needs to stay in there -- I think we're
protected anyway because the resolution granting the
conditional use is pretty specific to what we get to operate, a
therapeutic riding facility or what the words are here. So I just
wanted to make that clear.
With regard to the trip generation, yeah, the facility has
operated there for a quite a while, so we, obviously, pretty well
know what kind of traffic we have, and a weekday, a maximum of
about ten trips a day. Saturday is when the program operates,
and it's about 75 trips on that day, so, yeah, we have -- we've got
an operating history here, so we know.
With that, I'll be -- you know, I know there's some people
here to speak. We've been -- and Ms. Blackwell will describe
some of the contacts we've had with people in Pine Ridge. I'm
sort of surprised that we, this morning, got some people who
have some concerns, but we are certainly here to address them,
and I would like to reserve the ability to talk about what these
concerns are after we hear what they are.
Anyway, I'll introduce Ms. Blackwell, and it won't be long.
MS. BLACKWELL: Good morning. My name is Karen
Blackwell. I've lived in Naples for about 28 years, and I've lived
in Pine Ridge specifically since 1987.
I became involved with therapeutic riding about ten years
ago in the Fort Myers area and became a co-founder of the
Naples Equestrian Challenge here in Naples in July of 1995.
We began the program in Pine Ridge -- excuse me, on Pine
Ridge Road in a center there called Naples Gymnastic. We
quickly outgrew that facility, moved to Golden Gate and
eventually in 1997, the opportunity came available to us to lease
the barn at this property, at 206 Ridge Drive. We moved into the
property at that time and operated the facility there until the
Page 15
February 3, 2000
property owners -- the property went under foreclosure, and the
bank, who is an out-of-state bank, asked us to leave the property
in January of 1999. We left the property in January of 1999
temporarily while we put together an offer to purchase the
property. We moved back into the property in March of '99 and
then closed on the purchase in April of 1999. We've been
operating there since then and have had no known objections to
the operation of the property there.
I did go and speak to the Pine Ridge Civic Association and
I've also subsequently talked several times with the president of
the Pine Ridge Civic Association. They have not taken a formal
position on this item. He did indicate to me that he has not
heard a formal objection to our operation there.
I would also like to offer that I have been taking lessons and
owned horses in the Pine Ridge area for 20 years, and I also have
had the opportunity to speak with neighbors directly to the south
of this property, Mr. and Mrs. Lenington. I think you have their
letter in your package. The Leningtons have owned property
there for about 30 years. They built a barn themselves on their
property and operated it as a boarding stable for the time while
they were raising their family, and the Leningtons told me that
they, as well as having a boarding facility there, they also
consider that their riding arena was the show grounds for Collier
County back in the early days. They are very supportive of what
we are doing. They encourage us to continue operation.
I've also talked with the neighbors to the north. They are --
they are -- the people currently living in the property and have
been living there for about a year are in 100 percent support of
what we are doing. They are in the process of purchasing that
property.
Also, our volunteers, before we actually closed on the
purchase of the property, went out into the neighborhood,
because we were concerned that the neighbors -- we wanted to
be certain that they felt comfortable with our operation,
comfortable with what we were doing, and if they had any
concerns, and I've handed there for you a package of consents
that members of the neighborhood have signed to our conditional
Page t6
February 3, 2000
use application.
We've also had several residents write letters, about 14
letters there that you have indicating their support who are not
able to be here today, and so I'm asking that you consider our
petition, and I'll be available to answer any questions. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: One question, in this packet, how
many supporting property owners do we have here in this huge
packet?
MS. BLACKWELL: In the packet itself, there are -- I know
there are 128 consents.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: Thank you.
MS. BLACKWELL: There are -- about five of those, I think, are
duplicate, husband and wife signed, and there are 14 letters.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: Thank you.
MS. BLACKWELL: You're welcome.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: Who lives on the property?
Does somebody live there?
MS. BLACKWELL: Yes, our property manager lives on the
property now.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY.' How many children do you
serve -- it's the same ones every Saturday or do they come once
a month or--
MS. BLACKWELL: The same children every Saturday,
although the riders do vary with our season throughout the year.
Right now we have 23 riders. We've had as many as 34 at our
maximum time.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY.' So, there are 23 children
being -- benefiting from the project -- from the program? MS. BLACKWELL: That's correct.
We ride on an average of three to five children at a time per
half hour.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Any other questions for the
petitioner?
Anyone else wish to speak?
MR. NINO: Yes, I have a Nora Peek, Mimi Watson -- Mimi
Watson, Nicole Marginian and John Cowan and Lynn Zachary.
Page 17
February 3, 2000
MS. PEEK: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name
is Nora Peek. I've lived at 90 East Avenue in Pine Ridge for 16
years. I've lived in Naples for 39 years.
I'm a member of the Pine Ridge Civic Association. I would
like to read a part of a resolution signed by the Pine Ridge Civic
Association Board of Directors three years ago and still in effect
today. Now, therefore, be it resolved that it is the policy of the
board of directors to support the continuation of the single family
residential character and usage of all those lots in the Pine Ridge
subdivision that are not now zoned commercial or multi-family,
and be it resolved that the board will not support efforts to make
changes by modifying the zoning or the applicable declaration of
covenants and restrictions unless it is shown by compelling
circumstances that the continuation of residential usage is no
longer feasible or that other uses are not injurious to adjoining
property.
I'll repeat the key words of that resolution. The Pine Ridge
board will support only single family residential character of the
lots, and they will not support efforts to make changes by
modifying the zoning.
Now, this resolution came about to help protect the
parameter residential lots in Pine Ridge from becoming anything
other than residential. The original Pine Ridge subdivision was
platted 46 years ago. That was well before the planned unit
development zoning was available. When the Pine Ridge master
plan was created, specific uses were designated in specific
areas.
Over the years, there have been a number of requests for
zoning changes to the parameter properties in Pine Ridge. You
can imagine that perimeter lots, especially those along Pine
Ridge Road and along Goodlette Road, look very inviting from the
commercial point of view.
If the planned unit development zoning had been available
when Pine Ridge was built, we would not be having these zoning
situations now. There are many parameter residential lots in
planned unit developments that have no fear of requests of
zoning changes. Why does Pine Ridge continuously have these
Page 18
February 3, 2000
requests? Why do we have to continuously protect our fort from
these changes?
I ask the County to be sympathetic to our situation on this
and on future zoning requests.
Some years ago there was a zoning request to change one
of our perimeter residential lots to permit a commercial office
building. At that time, one of my neighbors told me that if it did
go commercial, she and her husband were seriously thinking of
converting their home to a bed and breakfast. So you see, even
the slightest change in zoning or conditional uses can affect all
the perimeter properties.
Mrs. Blackwell's conditional use application states on Page
7 that this operation has not been the subject of any complaints,
concerns or problems with neighboring properties. At the Pine
Ridge Civic Association meeting in April, there were a number of
concerns expressed to Ms. Blackwell about the use of this
property.
I don't want you to think that denying this application would
put an end to the equestrian challenge project. It would not.
When I spoke to Mrs. Blackwell last April, she assured me that
even if they did not use this Pine Ridge property, the project
would go on. I think at that time they were also using another
property out in Golden Gate.
You can be assured that I do not object to their work. My
objection is a request for any changes to the zoning that might
bring any residential lot closer to a commercial character. By
allowing a riding facility to become the primary focus of a
property, we no longer have a residential character. Take a look
at the site plan, twenty parking spaces on a single residential
lot. That's certainly not residential character. It may not be a
giant step, but it's definitely a step toward becoming
commercial. It sets a precedence. Then all of the Pine Ridge
parameter properties are at risk.
I respectfully request that you deny the petition to allow the
conditional use to Lot 21, Block I in the Pine Ridge subdivision.
I would like to add my thank you to the planning commission
and the county staff for all your work and dedication to making
Page 19
February 3, 2000
Collier County such a great place to live in.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Any questions?
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: Not of her.
Ron, if I buy this property in question and my two kids each
have a horse and they each want to invite 12 of their friends over
on Saturday morning to ride, is there anything to keep me from
doing that?
MR. NINO: No.
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: So, every Saturday morning if I
own this single family home in this neighborhood, I could have 23
kids come over and ride horses for --
MR. NINO: That's possible.
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: Thank you.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Next speaker?
COMMISSIONER SAADEH: Mr. Chairman, quick question for
Ms. Peek. Were you talking on behalf of yourself or the entire
civic association of Pine Ridge, ma'am? MS. PEEK: On behalf of myself.
I have a copy of the resolution that was passed three years
ago that's still in effect today.
COMMISSIONER SAADEH: Thank you.
MS. WATSON: For the record, my name is Mimi Watson. I
am a member of the board of directors of the Pine Ridge Civic
Association, and as was stated, the Pine Ridge Civic Association
board has not endorsed or rejected the petition. We do commend
the activities of the equestrian challenge. We feel that they do a
lot of good work.
We are concerned about the recommendations listed,
particularly item ten, which Fred addressed, that had been
discussed with the petitioner that states schools, public and
private, and we feel that that could open the door to something
commercial.
We also feel that number nineteen would cover that but
should be specified for therapeutic riding lessons. We -- I object
personally to the fact of the -- put up the site plan, please. On
the site plan, you see the parking arrangement, and they have
provided for five handicapped parking spaces which would have
Page 20
February 3, 2000
to be paved. They have provided, I believe, a total of 20 spaces,
and it being a residential agricultural area, I feel that the best
use for appearances sake would be to have the rest of the
spaces grass and not paved. Paved looks commercial.
The -- we also would like to include in the petition that if the
equestrian challenge moves out or closes their facility or the
property changes hands -- I believe they own the property, but if
the property changes hands, that this conditional use, if granted,
should expire and not continue for the next owner. Thank you very much.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Next speaker?
MR. NINO: Marginian.
MS. MARGINIAN: Hi. I'm Nicole Marginian, and my firm,
Quarles & Brady, represents Mr. and Mrs. Rufus Duff. They own
property in Pine Ridge, Lot 1, Block H. It's on the northwest
corner of Center and Goodlette, and they also have a -- they have
a stable and a riding range on their property also, and they
support the Blackwells in their petition today.
Their only objection is to this entire process. They just
wanted on the record that when the zoning was amended, they
had no notice of it except for the newspaper, but now, when all
these petitions are going through, they are getting letters,
they're getting signs and everything, and they just -- they think
the whole process has been unfair.
They have been using this property for probably longer than
I've been alive in this way, and now they've got to go through all
these things. They have to expend thousands and thousands of
dollars in engineering fees and legal fees just to continue a use
that has been going on on this property for 20 years.
I just wanted to note an objection to the process. Thanks.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: I have one question. Is that
because the code was changed that you had to have 20 acres to
have a riding stable? Is that what has prompted all this?
MS. MARGINIAN: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: What prompted all this was the
unfortunate situation beyond the control of this academy to have
Page 21
February 3, 2000
to vacate the property for two months, not unlike the Naples
Dinner Theater that had to stop use for a month or two because
of different kind of health reasons --
MR. NINO: You have to establish -- you have to establish
that you're a legal non-conforming use.
The equestrian function, they were unable to satisfy us that
they were a legal non-conforming use. The previous situation, I
don't know. The fact it has been there for 20 years, then it would
be a legal non-conforming use.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Next speaker.
Anyone else to speak?
MR. NINO: I'm sorry, Cowan.
COMMISSIONER WRAGE: While he's coming up, Ron, to
carry on from Mr. Priddy's comment, if I own this property with
the proper permit, can I build 20 parking spaces on there myself
as an individual for my friends?
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: Sure, you can pave it as much --
MR. NINO: Sure. Yeah. If it's for private use, you certainly
can place impervious material on portions of your property.
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: Put a tennis net across it during
the week and use it as a tennis court.
COMMISSIONER SAADEH: That would be one big tennis
court.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Would you identify yourself,
please?
MR. COWAN: I'm John L. Cowan, real estate investor,
developer, broker; some 36 years of real estate in Naples. It's a
pleasure to appear before you once again. I presume each time I
appear, you hope it will be the last time, but I can't give you any
assurances there.
I've been involved with the Pine Ridge extensions,
particularly the second extension, and I've owned property there
for 30 some years. I still own it.
I do not work for the equestrian challenge. I think you know
that I mainly have one client, and that's Habitat for Humanity,
but I am a friend and a neighbor and a supporter of the
equestrian challenge.
Page 22
February 3, 2000
I see no negative effects of having the continuation of the
equestrian challenge in its location there. I don't see any
diminution or any effect whatsoever. The impact on property
values will be zero.
I've been there many Saturdays to observe the traffic
patterns, and they are not at all nauseous. That's not a negative.
Quite frankly, I'd sell my properties in a minute if I thought
there was anything negative about equestrian challenge in that
area, but I continue to hold the properties on Tupelo and Hickory
and so on.
I don't see any downside to having these people continue.
particularly if their usage terminates when they leave. On the
other hand, of course, there are very, very considerable positive
effects of having an equestrian challenge and having it in that
area; some of them been referred to already. There are
enormous benefits for these clients that benefit from the riding.
There are also benefits for the volunteers that spend their time
and get good exercise and good derivations from the activity.
I would ask you, if the challenge goes away from this area,
what will happen to it? Will there be another 15 C-3 come in?
What kind of effect would that have, and that's one of the things
that ought to be thought about as you consider all this.
Questions?
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Next speaker.
MR. NINO: Lynn Zachary.
MS. ZACHARY: Hi. I'm Lynn Zachary. I've been a Naples
resident over ten years, and that's when I discovered Pine Ridge.
I bought property there two years ago, and my daughter and
I, one Sunday morning, saw horses go by our house and ran out
in our pajamas, and that's where we met Karen Blackwell, and
she told us about the equestrian challenge, and I had never
heard about that.
So, the following Saturday, I went down as kind of skeptical,
but I went to see. I have two healthy children, so I had never
been exposed to what these families go through, and I was
amazed that children who seem -- I'm not exactly sure how to
describe it, but kind of out of it -- lit up when it was their turn to
Page 23
February 3, 2000
ride, and after that, I became a volunteer -- I get emotional. I
can't deal with this, but it's so important for these families to
continue with this program, that it was the one bright light in
their week, and to see little children and grown up children --
grownups look forward to this program, I find that if you
discontinue or deny their petition, that it would be negative for
Collier County, and I think if you have any objections, that we
invite you to come and see for yourself like they invited me, and I
think that at that point you would see what they are doing and
agree that this should be passed.
Thank you.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE.' Any questions?Thank you.
Next speaker.
MR. NINO: John Kane. John Kane.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: No, that was last time.
MR. NINO: Tom Peek.
MR. PEEK: Good morning. I'm Tom Peek. My wife spoke
earlier. I live at the same address at 90 East Avenue and have
for 16 years.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: At least today you do.
MR. PEEK: A couple of additional comments, first of all, I
don't think any of us are opposed to the equestrian challenge
operation that's going on there.
The concerns that we have, as my wife addressed to you,
are the future expansion of what might occur on that site if the
provisional -- or conditional uses are approved and someone else
comes in and converts them to something other than the
equestrian challenge operation.
In following up on Mr. Priddy's question earlier, it was my
original question and discussion with Mr. Nino and Mr. Reischl, is
why is a conditional use even required? The property owner by
permitted use in the agricultural zone is permitted to have
horses on this facility and ride those horses and have their
invited guests come and ride horses on their property. Is that
not what the equestrian challenge is doing? If so, why do they
need a conditional use anyway, because that is a permitted use
under number two in the agricultural zoning district? So, it's
Page 24
February 3, 2000
still my contention that there is no additional conditional use
required to carry on the operation that they are currently
carrying on at this property. If that's the case, then that would
remove all of the neighbors' concern that some other property
owner in the future could convert the conditional use that's
approved for this facility into some more intensive commercial
use.
So, I wanted to make that clarification to you, and further, to
ask your consideration to ask those questions and see if you can
determine that it is not a necessary requirement to have a
conditional use at all. Thank you.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Any questions?
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: I do have a question.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: We have a question for you.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: I mean, I truly wonder -- I wasn't
around to know that having a stable like this and a facility, you
had to have 20 acres. I wasn't aware of that change. Maybe
there's logic behind requiring the 20, but then is Mr. Peek
correct, what is the issue here? Do we really have to have a
conditional use in an agricultural zoned area?
MR. REISCHL: Staff--
MR. PEEK: Let me read -- excuse me. Let me read from the
zoning ordinance for you, one line, if you would please, if you
don't have it before you. Under Section 222.1, permitted uses
under the agricultural district, item number one, it's single family
residence. Item number two, permitted uses, it talks about
agricultural activities. The last sentence says, this is not -- and
the first sentence talks about requiring 20 acres. The second
one says, this is not to preclude an individual property owner
from the keeping of fowl or poultry not to exceed 25 in number
and the keeping of horses and livestock, except for hogs, not to
exceed two such animals per each acre, that's two horses per
acre, so they could have five horses on this two and a half acres,
and with not open feed lots for personal use and not in
association with a commercial agricultural activity on parcels
less than 20 acres.
Page 25
February 3, 2000
So, you are permitted to have horses on your property less
than 20 acres, not more than two per acre, and you can ride
them and have your invited guests come and ride them, and as
you asked a moment ago, could your two children have 23 of
their friends come over every Saturday morning? The answer
was yes. So I make my case. You don't need a conditional use.
MR. NINO.' There is -- there is a -- and I defer to Ms. Student,
but there is certainly a difference between you functioning as a
private individual from your property and you have horses and
now and again you invite your friends over to take advantage of
those opportunities. That and a function run by a nonprofit
organization, which is what you have here -- it's still commercial,
but it's a nonprofit organization. There's a distinct legal
difference I suggest to you between that and the occasional use
for a private property -- extending the enjoyment of their property
to their friends, there's a distinct difference between that and a
nonprofit organization operating a riding school.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: Ron, why don't we address
the other aspect of this that keeps seeming to crop up, does a
conditional use run with the applicant or run with the property?
MR. REISCHL.' With the property.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: With the property?
MR. REISCHL: Staff feels that -- we feel comfortable that
the safeguard is in there that this is for a therapeutic riding
academy. We have no objection to the removal of number ten or
the addition of another statement in the conditions stating that it
shall only be used for a therapeutic riding academy. We feel it's
redundant, but we have no problem with doing it.
MR. NINO: Relative to that question, though, I understand
that if the petitioner on the record agrees that the conditional
use will not be inherited by a subsequent property owner, that
that -- that that is possible.
COMMISSIONER URBANIK: I just have a clarification, a
question. It was mentioned that if the conditional use is
approved, one of the persons coming to the podium said that we
might be changing the zoning. Is that, in effect, true? I thought
that it would still be ag. but it would have a conditional use?
Page 26
February 3, 2000
MR. REISCHL: That's true. It still remains as agricultural.
The land use would get one more permitted use if the conditional
use is approved.
COMMISSIONER URBANIK: But we are not changing the
zoning?
MR. REISCHL: But the zoning, the underlying zone would
still be agricultural.
COMMISSIONER URBANIK: Thank you.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Mr. Pickworth.
MR. PICKWORTH: To address some of the comments; with
regard to the grass parking, yes, we'll do that. It was always -- I
guess we are required to pave the handicapped spots. It was
always our intention to ask the staff at the construction stage to
allow us to leave the other spaces in grass. Obviously, it saves
us money, and given the extremely low use, it makes no sense to
create more asphalt out there. So, we fully agree with that.
We -- obviously, we would be reluctant to agree that if the
Naples Equestrian Challenge ceases to operate this, the
conditional use goes away because the conditional use limits it
to this therapeutic riding academy. If it wasn't the Naples
Equestrian Challenge, what if it's the Naples Equestrian
Foundation or something, you're still -- you've still got the same
thing, and I think that -- you know, certainly we've talked about
that many times in here over the year that these uses follow the
land. They limit the use of the land regardless of who owns it.
So, it would not -- it would be very cumbersome to say that if
the particular user there today were to not be there and someone
else came in -- it probably could change hands for all kinds of
reasons -- that you would have to go through all of this would not
really be fair, and it certainly wouldn't be the way that normal
conditional uses operate. A conditional use follows the land, and
all the restrictions that go with that conditional use follow the
land.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Any questions?
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: I have one comment. I just
looked at my notes again, and I realized that we didn't ask for
disclosure when we started this discussion, and I'd like to
Page 27
February 3, 2000
disclose that I've had a telephone conversation with Karen
Blackwell.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Anybody else?
Any other questions for Mr. Pickworth?
Anyone else wish to speak on this matter?
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: If you-all will be brief, we'll take
care of this.
MR. GENDRON: Good morning. My name is Dr. Henry
Gendron, and I live at 160 Eugenia Drive, which is in the Pine
Ridge subdivision.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Excuse me, have you been sworn
in? MR. GENDRON: No.
(The speaker was sworn).
MR. GENDRON: Do I need to repeat the --
MR. NINO: Do you need a spelling?
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: We need a spelling.
MR. GENDRON: G-E-N-D-R-O-N. Sorry, I got in a little late. I
was trying to attend to the practice, but I think this is important
enough to me to take some time out of my practice to support
this event, and I've been listening to a lot of the comments.
The reason why my wife and two year old child have moved
to Pine Ridge is because of the nature of the area. It's -- it has
the horses, which is a very big plus, especially when you have
small children. We walk quite frequently in the area, and it's a
pleasure to see my daughter's eyes light up when she sees a
horse and is able to even identify one.
My wife lived here in the '60s and '70s and rode in Pine
Ridge 35 years ago. She had to go way out into the country to
ride, but this is 35 years ago that she was able to enjoy the
horses in that area, and I don't see any reason why we need to
negate that.
I think in closing that the Naples Equestrian Challenge is a
wonderful organization. When we drive by the barn on Saturday
and the children are involved in therapeutic events, it just warms
your heart, and I don't think there's anything, at least in my point
of view, negative about it, and I would hope you would support it.
Thank you.
Page 28
February 3, 2000
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Anyone else? Sir, have you been
sworn in?
MR. SLEETH: No, I haven't.
(The speaker was sworn).
MR. SLEETH: Good morning.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: State your name for the record.
MR. SLEETH: My name, for the record, is Kenneth J. Sleeth.
I'd like to address the commissioners or the members here this
morning. I've been a part of this program now for several years.
I was also part of a big program up in the Michigan/Detroit area.
In fact, our horse farm we use for this program.
You cannot realize just how important this is to some of
these children. Example I might give of that is up in the program
I was part of in Michigan, we had children coming from the
church -- Baptist Children's Home and several other homes.
These were children who, in turn, when they arrived at our place
for starting this program were very introverted, were the kind of
children who, in turn, had difficulty in dealing with.
A particular case of that would be with a boy who's a
Down's syndrome. I'm sure you're familiar with Down's
syndrome. This boy, George, who, in turn, up until that time, had
a very difficult problem in the Detroit Baptist Children's Home.
He came out to our place. The first day he was out there, the
first day he was out there, when it came time to go home, they
couldn't find George, and they found him in one of the stalls, and
he was -- we had some -- we were raising small pups, and this
small pup about the size of your hand was barking at him, and
George was sitting there. We rescued George, and over a period
of six to eight months, this boy went from a very introverted child
to a child who, in turn, looked forward to coming out. In fact, the
first thing he would do after he arrived would be to take one of
the ponies out and drag him over the fence and work back and
forth.
I've been involved with this program for many years, both in
Michigan and down here, and you cannot realize just how
important this is.
I have four children -- four grandchildren in Oklahoma, and
Page 29
February 3, 2000
they are, as far as I was concerned, they are what they call hell
on wheels, but, in turn, working one week, one weekend over
with the challenge, you go home and say how fortunate you are
that you, in turn, have children that are hell on wheels, and this
is the program where I've seen children out there who, in turn,
went from unable to function themselves to be able to function
and sit on the horse and, in turn, be able to hold on, and up until
that time, they had to be held on the saddle.
So, I would ask for your support in this program so, in turn,
we can continue on this kind of work. Thank you.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: I will close the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, I move that we
recommend approval of C-99-30.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: Second.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: I have a motion and a second.
Any other discussion?
There being none, I'll call for the vote. All in favor, signify by
saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response).
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: None. Motion carries.
MR. REISCHL: Mr. Chairman, can I get a clarification on the
-- with number ten, with conditional use number ten in there for
the school or--
MR. NINO: Did you want to eliminate condition number ten?
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: Yeah, I'll eliminate condition
number ten.
MR. NINO: That was my understanding.
COMMISSIONER SAADEH: And the grass parking, do you
want to add that to the motion?
MR. REISCHL: Grass parking, we don't believe is necessary
to be included in there. It will be considered at the time of SDP.
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: I want to make it clear that the
conditional use continues with the property, not with the current
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: And with the second, if I'm
Page 30
February 3, 2000
recorded as the second, I agree, we can take out the ten.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Next case, CU-99-31,
Cocohatchee Nature Center.
Anyone wishing to speak on this matter, stand and be sworn
in.(The speakers were sworn).
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Mr. Reischl.
MR. REISCHL: Fred Reischl, planning services. This is a
request for two petitions, a conditional use and an S.T., a special
treatment development permit. Basically the S.T. is because the
zoning has the S.T. overlay on the ag. land. As you can see on
the visualizer, the parcel is the western half of an island that is
split by U.S. 41. The landmark that I'm sure you'll know on the
eastern portion of the island is the Pewter Mug restaurant. This
would be the western half of that island. It's about -- it's a little
over two acres in size, and it is within the -- even though it's
agriculturally zoned, it's within the urban area, so it is consistent
with the final order.
As we go from a county graphic to the petitioner's graphic
here for the proposed site plan, you can see that the nature
center consists of a small parking lot which is in -- mostly in the
upland area, and then the nature center, the office and the
amphitheater and docks for the boat tours, boardwalk through
the mangrove area.
This was approved unanimously by the Environmental
Advisory Counsel. I received no objections. One person came
and looked at the file, had no objection to it, and staff
recommends approval of both petitions.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: I do have one question, to put it
on the record for this particular petition, why would this
particular use only generate 50 trips weekday versus 50 to 100
that we just got through discussing?
MR. REISCHL: It's based on the size of the land. I think that
was, again, on the record because the trip generation manual,
it's a standard formula that Mr. Bellow used to calculate that.
As I understand it from the petitioner, a lot of this business
will be generated by buses, by groups, so it will be significantly
less than what the trip generation manual suggests.
Page 31
February 3, 2000
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: And they'd come on 41 and turn
onto the property; is that the access?
MR. REISCHL: I believe they have discussed this with FDOT,
and they are either in the design phase or it has been approved.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: I would like that clarification.
MR. HAGAN: Good morning, commissioners. For the record,
I'm Chris Hagan with Johnson Engineering representing the
petitioner. We have met with FDOT. The parking configuration
has been -- because of the environmental constraints, has been
minimized as much as possible. Otherwise, we wouldn't be able
to get water management district, Corps or DEP permits. In
doing that, we have placed the number of parking spaces at the
minimum to accommodate the boat docks per the ITE. It is very
minimal, but our wetland impacts -- we've submitted our district
permit already, and their biggest concerns are how can we
minimize the impacts further. So, right now we are wrestling
with that. So, we've kind of got a little contradictory effort.
We have met with FDOT. They are familiar with our plan.
Could you go back to the other graphic, please, Fred? Thank
you.
The driveway that you see coming in is being reconfigured
slightly. It was determined by FDOT we didn't have to have a
deceleration lane and some other things, so we are going to be
able to minimize the impacts further than that graphic shows,
but, in essence, that is the site plan that we are proposing.
COMMISSIONER BRUET: The owner of the property,
Cocohatchee Nature Center, is that the Conservancy?
MR. HAGAN: No. Doug Schroeder is here representing --
COMMISSIONER BRUET: The Conservancy owns a lot of the
property up there, and --
MR. HAGAN: This is a not-for-profit organization. Doug is
here representing -- Doug Schroeder is here representing them.
He can give you all the details, but basically, it's a not-for-profit
program to set up educational boat tours for school kids, et
cetera.
Also addressing parking, Mr. Schroeder has been negotiating
with the Pewter Mug, FDOT and other adjoining property owners
Page 32
February 3, 2000
to see about cross parking agreements and access. Obviously,
the biggest concern with the Pewter Mug is crossing 41. We are
talking to FDOT about putting a walkway underneath the new
bridge crossing.
So, we are looking at a bunch of different options right now
to try to improve that issue, but right now, we are kind of stuck
between environmental concerns on the one hand and parking
requirements on the other.
COMMISSIONER BRUET: So on one hand, you don't have
enough parking here and very small traffic counts, and on the
other hand, you're negotiating with property owners for cross
parking easements?
MR. HAGAN: Correct.
COMMISSIONER BRUET: It's kind of hard to sort that out,
isn't it?
MR. HAGAN: It is -- on the one hand we meet the minimum
criteria. We meet the minimum criteria based on the ITE, which
are the only accepted standards by which to do traffic -- or
parking spaces and traffic counts. So we meet that criteria.
We recognize though that we can have a parking problem,
and that's why we're pursuing some of these other options.
MR. REISCHL: They do meet county requirements for
parking on the proposal.
COMMISSIONER BRUET: If this weren't an environmental or
conservancy group, if this were a restaurant, what would your
reply be?
MR. REISCHI.: Oh, this would definitely not be enough
parking for a restaurant.
COMMISSIONER BRUET: No, I'm just saying, if they were in
the same position where, you know, they have environmental
restraints and they can only -- they want to open a restaurant,
but they can only put ten parking spaces on their property. You
tell them, oh, gee, it needs a lot more than that, I just -- I'm just
trying to see the difference here. I mean, I thought parking as
part of an application had to meet all of your requirements.
MR. REISCHL: Yes, and it does for the size of the facility
with the boat docking facility and the amphitheater, they meet
Page 33
February 3, 2000
the county requirements for parking.
MR. NINO: It really wasn't necessary for Chris to put on the
record that they may have from time to time a parking problem.
COMMISSIONER SAADEH: In other words, if it was a
restaurant and they came in today and they meet the parking
requirements, Fred and planning staff would approve it even
though they are trying to pursue a cross parking agreement.
COMMISSIONER WRAGE: There's enough parking places for
a Checkers. Drive right on through.
COMMISSIONER RAUTIO: A Checkers?
COMMISSIONER BRUET: I understand.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Or Juicy Lucy.
COMMISSIONER BRUET: Okay, fine.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Any questions? Next speaker.
COMMISSIONER SAADEH: No speakers.
MR. NINO: I don't have any registered speakers.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Then I'll close the public hearing.
MR. REISCHL: Mr. Chairman, just to remind you, there are
two petitions that we need to --
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: What?
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: Two petitions, the conditional
use and the S.T.
In light of the silence of everyone else, Mr. Chairman, I move
that we recommend for approval CU-99-31.
COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: Second.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: I have a motion and a second.
Any discussion?
There being none, I'll call for the vote. All in favor, signify by
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, I move that we
recommend for approval the S.T. portion of CU-99-31.
COMMISSIONER SAADEH: I'll second that.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: I have a second -- I have a
motion and a second. Any discussion?
Seeing none, I'll call for the vote. All in favor, signify by
saying aye.
Page 34
February 3, 2000
Opposed?
(No response}.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: None; motion carries.
MR. NINO: May I remind you that Sue Filson, who is the
keeper of the condition of this room, has reminded me that they
would appreciate it if you'd take away all your paper.
COMMISSIONER RUSSELL: Mr. Nino, may I remind staff that
you-all being directly under us on the organizational chart, that
I'll see that that takes place. MR. NINO: You rascal.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Is there any old business?
Any new business?
Any public comment?
Any discussion of the agenda?
COMMISSIONER SAADEH: I'd like to be noted on the record
that although I was a little tardy, I was here for all the decision
making, and I voted on every one. So, I'd like to be counted as
present today.
COMMISSIONER WRAGE: For full salary, right.
COMMISSIONER SAADEH: For full salary.
VICE CHAIRMAN PEDONE: Do I hear a motion to adjourn?
(Everybody so moves}.
There being no further business for the good of the County,
the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 9:47 a.m.
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
MICHAEL PEDONE, VICE CHAIRPERSON
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING BY: Dawn Breehne
Page 35
COLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES DIVISION
Febmary22,2000
Planning Services Department
2800 North Horseshoe Drive
Naples, Florida 34104
Nelson Marine Construction, Inc.
10900 East Terry St.
Bonita Springs, FL 34135
REFERENCE: BD-99-28, Alan Johnson
Dear Sir or Madam:
On Thursday, February 17, 2000, the Collier County Planning Commission heard and approved
Petition No. BD-99-28.
A copy of CCPC Resolution No. 2000-03 is enclosed approving this use.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Very truly ./~,
Ross Gochenaur
Planner II
g/admin/BD-99-28/RG/im
Enclosure
cc: Alan Johnson
1284 Miller Road
Avon, Ohio 44011
Land Dept. Property Appraiser
M. Ocheltree, Graphics
Minutes & Records (BD, PSP & PDI)
File
Phone (941) 403-2400
Fax (941) 643-6968
www. co.co!lier. fi.us
CCPC RESOLUTION NO. 2000- 03
RELATING TO PETITION NUMBER BD-99~28 FOR
AN EXTENSION OF A BOAT DOCK ON PROPERTY
HEREINAFTER DESCRIBED IN COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA.
WHEREAS, the Legislature of the State of Florida in Chapter 125, Florida Statutes, has
conferred on all counties in Florida the power to establish, coordinate and enforce zoning and such
business regulations as are necessary for the protection of the public; and
WHEREAS, the County pursuant thereto has adopted a Land Development Code (Ordinance
91-102) which establishes regulations for the zoning of particular geographic divisions of the County,
among which is the granting of variances; and
WHEREAS, the Collier County Planning Commission, being the duly elected and constituted
Planning Commission for the area hereby affected, has held a public hearing after notice as in said
regulations made and provided, and has considered the advisability of a 15 -foot extension of a boat
dock from the permitted 5 feet to allow for a 20-foot boat dock facility in an RSF4 zone for the property
hereinafter described, and has found as a matter of fact that satisfactory provision and arrangement have
been made concerning all applicable matters required by said regulations and in accordance with Section
2.6.21. of the Collier County Land Development Code; and
WHEREAS, all interested parties have been given the opportunity to be heard by this
Commission in public meeting assembled, and the Commission having considered all matters presented;
NOW THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY the Collier County Planning Commission of
Collier County, Florida, that:
The petition filed by Nelson Marine Construction, Inc., representing Alan Johnson, with respect
to the property hereinafter described as:
Little Hickory Shores Unit 2, Lot 30, Block E, as recorded in Plat Book 3, Page 79, of the
Public Records of Collier County, Florida.
be and the same is hereby approved for a 15-foot extension of a boat dock from the permitted 5 feet to
allow for a 20-foot boat docking facility in the RSF-4 zoning district wherein said property is located,
subject to the following conditions:
1. All docks, or mooring pilings, whichever protrudes the greater into the water, regardless
of length shall have reflectors and house numbers four (4) inches minimum size installed
at the outermost end on both sides.
2. In order to address the protection of manatees, one (1) "Manatee Alert" sign shall be
permanently affixed to the pilings and shall be visible from the waterway.
Permits or letters of exemption from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the Florida
Department of Environmental Protection shall be presented prior to issuance of a building
permit.
All exotic vegetation as defined in Section 3.9.6.4.1 of the Land Development Code shall
be removed from the site and the property shall be maintained exotic-free in perpetuity.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this Resolution relating to Petition Number BD~99-28 be
recorded in the minutes of this Commission and filed with the County Clerk's Office.
This Resolution adopted after motion, second and majority vote.
Done this [ ~ ~
dayof ~'~- [tP ~/'O C.4~ ~ ,2000.
ATTEST:
VINCENT A. CAUTERO, AICP
Executive Secretary
Community Development and Environmental
Services Administrator
Approved as to Form and Legal Sufficiency:
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
RUSSELL A. BUDD, CHAIRMAN
'M~ni M. Scudeft
Assistant County Attorney
g:/admin/BD-99-28/RG/im
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