Ochopee FCD Advisory Board Minutes 05/09/2011
THE OCHOPEE FIRE CONTROL DISTRICT
ADVISORY BOARD MEETING
HELD ON MAY 9,2011
~m(Q1~HWllJ
t !i\1 .,;
.J u j'~ 1 .'} 1 !
In attendance were the following:
BY: .......................
Alan McLaughlin, Fire Chief
Caleb Morris, Captain
Ron Gilbert, Chairman, Port of the Islands
James Simmons, Port of the Islands, Advisory Board Member
Tony Davis, Port of the Islands, Advisory Board Member
-'I ~~
r-13 ;) . (J(
Hiller ~
~~~~ng~
Coletta
The meeting began at 6:15PM by the Chairman Ron Gilbert.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES FOR MARCH 14, 2011 AND APRIL 11, 2011:
The minutes were approved as written pending the change of the dates.
Ron Gilbert -The minutes were right but the dates were wrong.
SUMMER ADJOURNMENT:
Chief McLaughlin - Usually the board adjourns during the summer or has in the past then
reconvenes in October. It is strictly the board's decision some of the past boards they left for
the summer. It is up to you as a board to adjourn or not for the summer.
Ron Gilbert - The reason you normally do that is there is not much activity in the summer time.
Chief Mclaughlin - Our budget process starts to winding up that's about the activity we have.
But the board usually adjourns because the members leave for the summer so we couldn't have
a quorum.
Ron Gilbert - Suggested they continue to meet through the summer because all the board
members will be here they are not leaving.
Page 1
Misc. Corres:
D8t1: ~\\~\\
Item': \ Lo~ ~ ~ 'LS
,.- -....:,...,
OLD BUSINESS BUDGET 2012:
Chief McLaughlin - Our final budget meeting is Friday May 10th our budget has been adjusted
approximately $432,000. These funds were added to our Budget by the County as an
anticipated shortfall due to the decrease of property values in the Everglades City area are
anticipated to be the highest in the County. Nobody really knows until June 1st but they are
anticipating that they will be high enough that we will have a considerable loss. So the County
has supplemented some of that money from other funding whether it is Pilt or District I he is
not really sure where the funds are coming from. But they were able to find funding to
supplement our budget. So our current budget stands at 1,788,000 which is our normal
operating budget. We did reduce our operating costs about $80,000 from last year.
Ron Gilbert - We are in a lot better shape than we thought previously.
Chief McLaughlin - Yes, they managed to find the money to supplement us. Overall we have
lost about $530,000 in depreciation within the last four years which is about one third of our
budget at this point. We are now at a 32% loss now over four years. He is not sure what the
property appraiser's intentions are now he keeps devaluing the properties they anticipate our
area is going to be one of the hardest hit this year along with Corkscrew and Immokalee.
Chief McLaughlin - There is now way to find out how they come to this conclusion it is decided
by the State and local government. Whether it is a real number or not it is just some ones
guess as to what the properties are worth based on current times it can change in a year either
way.
Ron Gilbert - It is supposedly driven by property sales. Is there money in this budget for the
Port of the Islands Fire Station?
Chief McLaughlin - Not currently.
Ron Gilbert - So you are still trying to find money for it.
Chief McLaughlin - Yes, it is not in the current budget but we are still trying to find a way to do
that. We will know more after our meeting with the County Manager on Friday.
OLD BUSINESS WATER TENDER:
Chief Mclaughlin - We had a 30 day time frame to get this Water Tender approved so that the
trade in value would be locked in as quoted otherwise it could change to a reduced amount.
The paperwork was processed ar:'qjt was placed on the BCC agenda for 5-24-11 as soon as it is
. r;-,.,\':
approved and signed the Water Tender will be purchased. He expects delivery somewhere in
November or December. It will Q~e 15 to 20 year truck.
Page 2
7-~~!\
Ron Gilbert - In order to show the Advisory Board is concurrent with the purchase of the water
tender then we need to get that letter to the Board of County Commissioners. The letter states
that the Advisory Board supports this purchase.
Chief McLaughlin - He sent a letter to Ron since he is the Chairman ofthe Board in regards to a
special meeting if he felt it was necessary in regards to the letter lending support to the
purchase of the Water Tender. If the Advisory Board is in approval he will attach their letter
supporting the purchase of the Water Tender to the BCC Packet for approval on 5-24-11.
Ron Gilbert - You have the approval of this board.
James Simmons - What is the final cost of the vehicle?
Chief Mclaughlin - The final cost is $235,000.
James Simmons - That's new.
Chief McLaughlin - Yes financed over ten years we won't take delivery until October so that
takes us to 2013 for our first payment.
NEW BUSINESS:
Chief McLaughlin - We received an estimate in regards to preconstruction costs to renovate
Station 61 in the amount of $471,000. He felt that was high because the Golden Gate Station
on Santa Barbara was built from the ground up for 1.2 million so he is currently sending it back
to our project manager in Facilities and have them review it we have several other builders on
contract with the County he feels the estimate is high. He feels it can be done cheaper but
$471,000 is the number he submitted to the budget office. The last time it was brought up
Commissioner Colletta suggested a MSTU be created to pay for the renovations. None of our
Advalorem for our operating costs has to do with construction so to build a station would have
to come from some funding mechanism. We do have some new construction coming in that
District with the three high rises they are proposing. All the impact fees will probably come
close to $80,000 or $90,000 will also go towards that. So you are looking at a funded MSTU
cost of about $350,000 to $400,000 over a period of years until it is a completed project. The
MSTU would be levied against all the taxable properties at Port of the Islands.
Ron Gilbert - To establish an MSTU you need the vote of all the property owners.
Chief Mclaughlin - That depends on the MSTU not all MSTUs need the vote of the property
owners some of them can be assigned by the Board of County Commissioners. They will
probably tell the residence if they want a fire station they will have to pay for it.
Page 3
Tony Davis - The MSTU would be for the whole area.
Chief McLaughlin - No it would be just for Port of the Islands.
Tony Davis - They would have to get a vote on it.
Chief McLaughlin - They probably would but if the money is not available in the near future
their argument will be that the operating Advalorem does not include any new construction.
We already took $800,000 out of Reserves to buy the building that affected the whole District.
But to finish the project it has to be funded.
Tony Davis - He spoke to Manager at Collier Seminole State Park and they are looking for land
to store equipment he was interested in working out a deal if possible. He asked if the Chief
had spoken to the State Park System in regards to funding for the 1-75 Station.
Chief Mclaughlin - He has had conversations with the State Park System and the Feds it has
been a very long and lengthy process. He has been doing it for 5 years when you get to the top
they don't really want to do it. It is very diffjcult the land management of it and the other
pieces of it is extremely difficult. It sounds like a great idea but to try and actually make it
happen is impossible. If you wanted a water or sewage system you would have to create an
MSTU unless someone else can come up with another plan this is probably the only way to fund
the station.
Ron Gilbert - Are you telling me that the MSTU could be created by this Board?
Chief Mclaughlin - No, it has to be created by the County Board of Commissioners and they
would probably take it to a vote. They would base it on if you want it this is what you have to
do and base it on the assessment it may be $100 or $200 a year for ten years per taxing unit
and that would be every property out there it would not just be the home owners it would be
everybody because there is a lot of land that is not developed.
Ron Gilbert - That would be a hard sell because we already have a non-advalorem fee at Port of
the Islands $1500 a year for houses, $1300 for Condominiums and $900 for Hotel
Condominiums.
Chief McLaughlin - He said one of the commissioners already told him that would be the only
way it could happen in the near future was by an MSTU.
Ron Gilbert - Because of those fees mentioned we have the highest millage rate there with the
exception of Everglades City. It would be a hard sell to the residence there to establish an
MSTU on top of that.
Page 4
Chief Mclaughlin - We are still looking at some rural funding and some grant funding we would
qualify for grant funding but they look at the District as a whole because of Port of the Islands I
can't qualify because the income ofthe Port of the Islands residence put me $8,000 over a year.
If it wasn't for Port of the Islands we were well within range.
Ron Gilbert - How is the income level established for the Port of the Islands residence most of
the people there are retired?
Chief McLaughlin - Yes, but the retirement the residence at Port of the Islands are receiving is
more than what the other people in the District are earning. There are some FEMA Grants we
are still trying to pursue for Station reconstruction but that could be a year down the road.
Tony Davis - There is a flaw in that system if they are looking at total income. They should be
looking at the Port is earned income.
Chief Mclaughlin - Remember what they look at is the whole District they don't look at things
separately.
Tony Davis - Most organizations take earned income retirement should not be included. If you
are retired and receiving $200,000 that is coming in from someplace else you are not
contributing to the area.
Chief McLaughlin - The average income had to be at $28,000 and we were at $42,000.
James Simmons - The Indians have income has that been counted in this survey.
Chief McLaughlin - No it is not taxable income and it stays on the reservation. We are pursuing
other means of funding the station at Port of the Islands. Hopefully things will get better and
we will be able to find some funding for it. But as of right now he is not aware of any funding
available to continue the project. We are going to keep looking for funding. We are waiting for
the FEMA Grants for Stations we are going to look at that again.
Tony Davis - Asked about the property on the north side the old hotel where the employing
housing building is.
Chief McLaughlin - It's going to be torn down it has been condemned.
Tony Davis - Supposedly at one point the owner of that hotel was willing to donate that land
bUilding and all.
Chief MClaughlin - No, we just did an inspection of his hotel. He has to comply and follow the
law.
Page 5
Tony Davis - There isn't a way you could get that land knock it down and put up a station.
Chief MClaughlin - land is not a problem CID donated land by the water plant but we are back
to how are we going to build it. It will cost 1.2 million to build a building so $450,000 is a lot
cheaper than 1.2 million. The plans have been done, the STP is done, the environmental is
done, and all the engineering is finished.
Tony Davis - What about the problems with the Marina Store in regards to the parking and the
Condo owners.
Chief McLaughlin - It has all been through our legal department. Their legal documents do say
they have a right to park there, however, the documents also say that the County has the right
to appropriate and assign whatever parking spots they chose. The STP specifically states that
17 of those parking spots on that side of the building belong to the Fire Department. The
parking is across the street and on the other side of that building. They may be right that
doesn't mean they are going to park out their back door.
Tony Davis - So that is not going to be an issue, with all that land that is across the street why
not work a deal bail out of the marina building make a swap and build over there.
Chief McLaughlin - That was all purchased for Marina parking.
Tony Davis - There are three owners you might be able to make a deal with them.
Chief McLaughlin - The marina parking belongs to Parks and Recreation and they need it for the
marina.
Tony Davis - But they are not going to use all that land.
Chief McLaughlin - Yes it is projected that it will all be used it is in their plan.
Tony Davis - There seems to be a lot of land there where you could squeeze a building in.
Chief McLaughlin - You can't squeeze a building in a fire station requires so much square
footage. If we put a new one in we need about an acre and a half.
Tony Davis - What about that piece of land right on US 41 by Stella Maris.
Page 6
I
__J
Chief McLaughlin - Yes that has already been looked at that is 2.5 acres. that property the one
next door and the one in the back are the only available properties to put a station on to put a
proper facility in. If someone came up with a couple million dollars I would have parks and
recreation buy it back from us and go across the street buy the five acres. We could put the
facility, boat slip, docks, boat and everything over there it would be good for 20 years. We
could even put a space for the Sheriff's office they could rent it for a substation. We finished
the Fire Hydrants. The only ones we have left are the purple ones at Orchid Cove and by station
60.
Ron Gilbert - There are some purple hydrants at Orchid Cove.
Chief McLaughlin - They are all supposed to be purple at Orchid Cove,
Ron Gilbert - They are yellow.
Chief Mclaughlin - They are supposed to be purple we contacted Hole Montes.
Tony Davis - He received a letter informing him that they were taking over their utilities and
that Orchid Cove would be responsible for painting the fire hydrants.
Chief McLaughlin - Usually in a development they are responsible for the fire hydrants unless a
utility company comes in and takes over. If they take over the water lines and the irrigations
lines the hydrants go with that they are not a separate issue. When they take over that
underground line they are taking over everything that goes with it.
Tony Davis - When the Developer built Orchid Cove he put in one line for irrigation and fire line
it is not two separate lines.
Chief McLaughlin - Yes, the hydrants are on the domestic feed.
Tony Davis - The CID and Hole Montes said they should separate it. Because they can't
separate the hydrant water from the irrigation water CID does not handle irrigation water.
Chief Mclaughlin - Then they are yellow ifthey are on domestic water.
Tony Davis -It should be non-potable if it is irrigation water.
Chief McLaughlin - But they are on the domestic line.
Tony Davis - According to the CID the water is reused water for only irrigation and fire hydrants
only not drinking water.
Page 7
Chief McLaughlin - Your drinking water has to have a back flow coming in to.
Tony Davis - According to them the irrigation and hydrant water is what comes to that big red
pipe that's out there by the mail box. Since both irrigation and fire hydrant water comes in the
one line there is no way to separate the two.
Chief Mclaughlin -If it is a reuse line where is your domestic water coming in?
Tony Davis -It comes in from another source.
Chief McLaughlin - I want to see the prints from Hole Montes before anyone does anything. I
want to find out what the as builts were and where they were put in the ground. If that is a
reuse line then it is not yours if it is a domestic line then it is yours.
Tony Davis - The irrigation and Fire hydrant water comes through that one red pipe which one
line is feeding both. That's why they didn't want to paint the fire hydrants because it is one line
we can't separate the water usage from irrigation to fire hydrants so we have to leave that in
your lap and you paint the fire hydrants.
Chief McLaughlin -It makes no difference they didn't separate anywhere else at the Port in fact
they took the separate line out and combined them then made a separate domestic line in.
They have already done that at the rest of the Port on both sides so if it is a reuse line it is
theirs.
Tony Davis - The developer put them in they are trying to get the C1D to take them over our
utilities but they don't want to paint the fire hydrants because they can't separate that they
don't cover the irrigation.
Captain Morris - Are they charging you for irrigation water? Are they measuring it?
Tony Davis - Yes.
Chief Mclaughlin - So that tells me the hydrants are on a domestic feed not on potable water.
Tony Davis -If you come out and run the hydrants they will bill us for that water.
Chief Mclaughlin - If they are billing you for it they own it they own the system they own the
hydrants they have to paint them. He is going to call Hole Montes to get the as built
information regarding the water lines. Other than a fire the only time we would use them
would be for a flow test or to flush them once a year.
Page 8
Tony Davis - Anytime the hydrants are used we have to pay for the water that would include
any fires because it is coming through one water line.
Chief McLaughlin - How are you getting domestic water there must be another line.
Ron Gilbert - There has got to be a separate line.
Captain Morris - There must be a meter by the back flow preventer.
Chief Mclaughlin - There has to be two back flows out there should be a blue one and a red
one.
Tony Davis - He was told per County Code they did not need a back flow on the preventer they
are talking about cutting it out of there.
Ron Gilbert - He thinks all the hydrants on the south side of Port of the Islands are powered by
reusable water that somebody pays for.
Chief McLaughlin - All the hydrants now are on reuse.
Ron Gilbert - Our irrigation is reuse water and our association pays a water bill each month to
Port of the Islands. I think those fire hydrants are on the same layout.
Chief Mclaughlin - All ofthem are.
Ron Gilbert - Any water you take out of those fire hydrants some one pays for it.
Chief Mclaughlin - We should be able to contact them to let them know when we are flowing
hydrants so it doesn't go on their bill.
Ron Gilbert - Five minutes is not a problem but a major fire could be a size able bill. He thinks
the potable water is coming across Union road directly into the back ofthe building.
Tony Davis - Wouldn't there be something above ground to show where the line is.
Ron Gilbert - We'll go look.
Chief Mclaughlin - There usually is it could be green or blue.
Tony Davis - There is nothing on the back side of Orchid Cove.
Page 9
Ron Gilbert - It would be logical to bring the potable water in on the north side along Union
Road but the reuse water line was already coming down US 41.
Chief McLaughlin - We'll have an answer for you the next meeting. The back flow preventer
was put on that line because it is a fire line but if it is a reuse and a back flow then that is
another issue. Because most fire line are on potable water.
Tony Davis - They are talking about cutting and plugging the preventer but they may not be
able to do that.
Chief Mclaughlin - It might be cheaper just for them to leave it alone because if they put a
bypass pipe in it has to be the same size. We haven't heard anything new on 1-75 yet. We
know the bill went into the State Congress and was imbedded in another bill that was lengthy.
It got through the House of Representatives and went to the senate. He believes by the next
meeting he will have an answer. So it is a lot closer than it used to be. We asked for a 3.2
million start up with a 1.2 million annual to keep it running. If this gets approved it will take the
impact of costs responding to 1-75 out of the District budget it will be self funded.
We created some new inspection forms other than that we have just been working on the
budget. We still haven't signed the contract the County Attorney apologized he is still waiting
to hear back how we are going to pay people per FLSA. He thinks they finally have it resolved
they have been working on it since December.
The meeting adjourned at 7PM.
L/2/J
Ronald Gilbert, Chairman
Ochopee Fire Control District Advisory Board
Page 10