CEB Minutes 10/26/1995
1995
Code
Enforcement
Board
October 26, 1995
October 26, 1995
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
Naples, Florida, October 26, 1995
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Code Enforcement Board met on this
date at 8:30 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government
Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRPERSON: Jim Allen
Charles Andrews
Mireya Louviere
M. Jean Rawson
Louis Laforet
Richard McCormick
ALSO PRESENT: Ramiro Manalich, Assistant County Attorney
Maria Cruz, Code Enforcement
Linda Sullivan, Code Enforcement
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CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
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8:QJ;;.N:J28:
Date: October 26, 1995 at 8:30 o'clock A.M.
Location: Collier County Government Center, Admn. Bldg, 3rd Floor
NOTE: ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF
THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS
PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO
ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS
IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND
EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
NEITHER COLLIER COUNTY NOR THE CODE ENFORCEMENT
BOARD SHALL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING THIS
RECORD.
1. ROLL CALL
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
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3 .
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
September 22, 1995
4. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. BCC vs.
B. BCC vs.
C. BCC VB.
D. BCC vs.
5. NEW BUSINESS
NAPLES TROLLEY TOURS - CEB No. 95-013
JEFFREY A. WARD & CHARLOTTE T. WARD - CEB NO. 95-014
TERRI L. KIRWAN - CEB NO. 95-016
REBECCA Z. WALLACE - CEB NO. 95-017
A. BC~ vs. John R. Landgrebe and Emily L. Landgrebe - Filing of
Affidavit of Non-Compliance and Request for Imposition of Fines
B. BCC vs. Ronnie Parks - CEB 95-003
Filing of Affidavit of Non-Compliance and
Request for Imposition of Fines
6. OLD BUSINESS
A. BCC vs. Jack A. Queen, Trustee - CEB No. 95-011
Request for Dimissal of Charges
7.
REPORTS
(
N/A
8.
NEXT MEETING DATE
November 30, 1995
.4
9 . ADJOURN
October 26, 1995
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Good morning. I'd like to call to
order the October 26 meeting of the Collier County Code Enforcement
Board. Any person who decides to appeal the decision of this board
will need a record of the pertaining -- of the proceedings pertaining
thereto and, therefore, may need to ensure that a verbatim record of
the proceedings is made which record includes testimony and evidence
upon which the appeal is to be based. Neither Collier County nor the
Code Enforcement Board shall be responsible for providing this
record.
We'll start with a roll call beginning at the left.
MR. MCCORMICK: Richard McCormick.
MR. LAFORET: Lou Laforet.
MS. RAWSON: Jean Rawson.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Jim Allen.
MS. LOUVIERE: Mireya Louviere.
MR. ANDREWS: Charlie Andrews.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: And let's note that Miss Celia
Deifik has called in, and she will -- she's going to try to be here,
but she is sick. She does have an excused absence. She can't make
it.
We'll start with approval of the agenda. Do we have any
additions, deletions?
MS. CRUZ: Yes, we do, Mr. Chairman. For the record, my
name is Maria Cruz, code enforcement coordinator. Under public
hearings, there's three items. Item A, staff is requesting that this
item be continued for our next board meeting and item Band D removed
from the agenda since both of these cases are in compliance at this
time.
Also -- also under new business, item A, instead of
filing the affidavit of non-compliance, we instead we will file an
affidavit of compliance.
MR. MANALICH: That's 5-A, Miss Cruz?
MS. CRUZ: 5-A, yes.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Do we have any other comments from
staff or counsel?
MR. MANALICH: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of
the board. Yes, I have a couple of comments. First, I'd like to
introduce you to two people today: First of all, Assistant County
Attorney Michael Pettit who has been with our office now going on a
year, and he was extensively in private practice both in Ohio and here
prior to that time with extensive litigation experience, and he will
continue serving as a back-up role to this board, and I'd like to
present him to you today.
MR. PETTIT: Nice to meet you all.
MS. RAWSON: Welcome, Michael.
MR. PETTIT: I'll take a minute to shake everybody's
hand.
Mr. Andrews.
MR. ANDREWS: Welcome aboard.
MS. LOUVIERE: Nice to meet you.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: I'm Jim.
MS. RAWSON: We've spoken on the telephone.
MR. PETTIT: We spoke on the telephone.
MS. RAWSON: Yes, nice to meet you.
Page 2
October 26, 1995
MR. LAFORET: It's not too late to change your mind, you
know. That's all we need is more lawyers.
MR. MANALICH: Well, as you know, Mr. Chairman, you have
previously voted that down the road here we are going to be changing
our roles, and we are working with staff on that. There are some
funding aspects that are involved in that. But until that occurs
obviously as long as we continue to represent the board, either myself
or Mr. Pettit will be here in that role.
Secondly, I'd also like to introduce to you this morning
a intern with our office who is a law student from Germany, and her
name is Birgit Liehnen. Unfortunately -- there she is. And she is
here today. She's going to be with us through December, so I'm kind
of taking her around to show her the workings of the county.
MS. LIEHNEN: I'll start here.
MR. ANDREWS: Nice to meet you.
MS. LOUVIERE: I met you with Marjorie. How are you,
ma'am?
MS. LIEHNEN: Yes, that's right.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Good morning, ma'am. How're you
doing?
MS. LIEHNEN: Good morning.
MR. MANALICH: She is specializing, I believe, ln
administrative law in Germany.
MR. ANDREWS: Marjorie?
MR. MANALICH: Actually Birgit.
MS. LOUVIERE: Birgit.
MR. MANALICH: And her specialty of interest in Germany
is administrative law, but she's getting a broad tour of duty with
us.
Mr. Chairman, in addition, I'd also in regard to the
agenda, an item I'd like you to consider as an add-on today, I'd like
to hear your discussion on it. It has come to my attention through
staff -- if you will recall the Jay's Marine case that was heard last
month, as a matter of fact, the board did hear that case. It was one
of those that was pretty hotly debated by both sides. And in that
case an order was issued.
It has come to my attention through Mr. Kirby that --
and through Mr. Saunders who you'll recall was representing Mr.
Ackerman that there have been some problems in applying that order.
And specifically what is involved is Mr. Saunders had made it -- had
communicated with me and indicated that he would be speaking to other
elements of our staff in our planning division I believe, Mr. Arnold,
Mr. Mulhere, who typically, as I understand Mr. Kirby, are the ones
charged with interpreting site development plans and related
ordinances.
MR. KIRBY: That's correct.
MR. MANALICH: And Mr. Saunders apparently discussed
this situation that had come to the board with those gentlemen, and it
is my understanding that Mr. Arnold and Mr. Mulhere believe that
perhaps the interpretation that staff has given to the SDP may be a
little bit overly restrictive of Mr. Saunders' clients and what is
expected them at the site. Specifically, I believe, Mr. Kirby, with
regard to the bumper stops and also with regard to what -- the
retention area, water retention area?
Page 3
October 26, 1995
MR. KIRBY: My name is Mike Kirby, code enforcement
investigator, for the record. Yes, they got -- Mr. Saunders
approached Mr. Mulhere. And Bob Mulhere, planning and services
let's see if his title's correct -- planning and technical services
manager, did write him a letter which made the order of the board --
gave them a little leeway.
Specifically he allowed them to remove six parking
bumpers to allow vehicular access from the parking area into the
gravel storage area; okay? And he was -- I guess his thinking was on
a practical note because the parking spaces, if all of them were in
place, they would completely block off someone driving around the site
pulling boats in and out; okay?
And then secondly, he allowed temporary parking and
storage of boat trailers in the water management areas so
MR. MANALICH: Mr. Chairman, the reason I bring this to
your attention is because essentially what we then have is a situation
where we have somewhat of an internal inconsistency between the
position that was presented by Ashley -- in that case I was advisor to
staff so by myself and staff to you and one of our own portions of our
planning department that usually interprets those SDP provisions.
Now, that puts Mr. Kirby on a day-to-day basis on the
field in attempting to apply your order in somewhat of a difficult
situation as you can understand. Because of this, I didn't want to
let this go on any further for another month. And I thought it would
be advisable to bring this to your attention today for what I would
view as a clarification of your order if you choose to do so in light
of this new information.
Now, I had spoken to Mr. Saunders, also to Rich
Yovanovich who was acting as your counsel for that case as well as to
Mr. Gebhardt who you will recall representing some nearby property
owner about this situation. We all seemed to be in agreement with my
suggestion that this matter come to you today for clarification rather
than let this proceed for another month and Mr. Kirby be put ln a
difficult position of enforcement out in the field.
Consequently, it would be my request if this could be
heard today. The only problem we had with that was that everyone that
is needed was not available until 11 a.m. today, and we had
tentatively scheduled it at that time but obviously with the
understanding I would first come to you and see if you were amenable
to having the agenda changed to accommodate this matter today.
It was -- you know, I suggested putting it before you
because I did believe it required your immediate review given this new
information. But there are other ways that this could be approached
depending on how you want to proceed today.
MR. ANDREWS: Well, the -- the only -- the only problem
looks like the agenda's been cut so short and we started early. Tell
you, we're going to be out of here by eleven o'clock, so --
MR. MANALICH: Right. When I --
MR. ANDREWS: -- can we set it another time earlier?
MR. MANALICH: Well, I can try to reach the parties.
The problem was that I know a couple of them at least were not
available until eleven. I saw that there were four contested cases,
and I thought we would run to eleven. Obviously that always can
change. I could try to see if anyone can make it any earlier and call
Page 4
October 26, 1995
if we have a short break at some point. But obviously your first
determination needs to be if you want to change the agenda to address
this matter or if you want to proceed otherwise.
MS. RAWSON: Are they requesting that we modify our
order? Is that it?
MR. MANALICH: Well, you know, we do have a specific
provision here regarding rehearing. In a way I viewed this as more of
a clarification of your order because of this new information. But
essentially I believe that yes, there would be a mod -- there could be
a modification of your order. But I do believe if that were to occur
we would need to have the parties present and be heard on this.
Now, other alternatives here, of course, would be to
have the matter simply continued --
MS. LOUVIERE: I -- I --
MR. MANALICH: -- until next month.
MS. LOUVIERE: I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt. I
have somewhere I have to be at twelve, so obviously eleven o'clock
doesn't work for me. That's just me personally. I don't know about
the rest of the board.
MR. MANALICH: It would not?
MS. LOUVIERE: No.
MR. MANALICH: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: It won't work for me, but I would
recuse myself anyway.
MR. ANDREWS: I don't think eleven o'clock's a good
time.
MR. MANALICH: Okay. Well, the other thing we could do
is either to have some type of special meeting on this, or we could
simply say that your order continues in effect until the next month is
the only thing.
Mr. Kirby, any comment on that?
MR. KIRBY: Yes.
MR. MANALICH: Or is that going to put an internal
inconsistency before us?
MR. KIRBY: When I go out, you know, I'm not finding any
problems because of the new information. I would have found problems
with the order of the board without this interpretation from Mr.
Mulhere. So things are going along okay.
But some other things we discussed was boats are parked
also in the right-of-way there or just outside of the water management
areas. They're parked in the parking spaces and the right-of-ways,
and they're out of the water management areas, those two in
particular.
So when I go there, there's boats in those places. But
the order of the board simply said boats shall not be parked in the
water management areas. And that's something else that I would like
for us to bring out and clarify. And we did discuss that with -- with
Mr. Saunders and Nancy Ackerman.
MR. MANALICH: I'm not -- as far as, you know, I mean,
on this one I have been acting as counsel to staff. So, I mean, I
can't obviously advise you as to how you should proceed. I just made
you aware of this new information, the situation as it is. The
parties were willing to be here at eleven. Obviously I realize that's
-- this is a last-minute thing that this information's been
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October 26, 1995
received. I understand if the board is not able to address this
today. And I'll be happy to contact the parties.
I could also attempt to call them if we had a short
break and see if they can be here any sooner than that. But that
depends even if you even want to hear this today.
MR. LAFORET: Is this open for discussion?
MS. LOUVIERE: Yes.
MR. LAFORET: It is?
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Miss Louvieres (sic) says she will
be available at eleven.
MR. LAFORET: I -- if I understand it, they are not
objecting to the fence.
MR. MANALICH: That's not an issue, no.
MR. LAFORET: That's not of issue. They're going to put
up an opaque fence.
MR. MANALICH: They are in the process of pursuing a
variance which you afforded them that opportunity for the fence.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: I think the issue --
MR. LAFORET:. The only issue then I understand or the
subject of this meeting I understand is all internal, behind the
fence, parking spaces. Now, if there's a variance that you're dealing
parking spaces so that they can move the vehicles, is there a code
requirement that they have so many parking spaces?
MR. KIRBY: Yes, there is.
MR. LAFORET: There is. Now, if you delete, you're in
violation of the code again, aren't you?
MR. KIRBY: Yes. If you fill up your automobile --
excuse me. If you fill up your automobile parking spaces with
something else, obviously the people that are using the parking -- the
public that are going in and out won't be able to use those, and
you're forming a bit of a traffic hazard. And there's cars where they
shouldn't be and waiting in line outside the marina.
MR. LAFORET: Well, now I und -- I understand your
answer, and that was my supposition.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Excuse me, Mr. Laforet. All we're
asking this morning right now is do we hear -- do we hear -- do we
change -- do we change the agenda to hear it at eleven o'clock or
not. That's all we're saying, yes or no.
MR. LAFORET: Oh, all right.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Okay? We're not -- we're not gonna
if we say we're not gonna add it to the agenda, we don't have to
discuss it any further.
MR. MANALICH: It seems to me that obviously there's
different ways to approach this. If the board is not prepared or
desirous of going forward today, I think we'll simply have to
reschedule this. Now, we can either reschedule it for the next
month's regular meeting or for a special meeting prior to then.
Obviously this is a developing situation.
The difficulty I think from staff's perspective is if
there's an internal tension between the order and the latest
interpretation that was handed by Mr. Mulhere and Mr. Arnold which
would relax slightly your order if you chose to follow that.
MS. LOUVIERE: I understand your position. I feel that
perhaps -- and I'm not blaming anyone here because that's not what the
Page 6
October 26, 1995
point is -- that perhaps this clarification' should have been obtained
or should have been looked at before this matter was heard by the
board. I'm sorry that it wasn't. I don't know whose -- why it
wasn't. That's really not my concern.
My concern is that I had -- I was prepared to listen to
this agenda. This agenda has now been changed. I'm not prepared to
listen to that item today. I would like that item to be listened to
next month when I can be prepared to listen to that item. I need I
read my agenda, and I come prepared to these meetings.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Let's take that in the form of a
motion. Do we need to vote on that?
MR. MANALICH: Well, yeah, I think you
MR. MCCORMICK: That only leaves three people to hear
the case.
MS. LOUVIERE:
MR. MCCORMICK:
chairman did so --
MS. LOUVIERE: And Jim recused himself. Celia's not
here. We're not prepared to hear this item.
MS. RAWSON: We -- we wouldn't have a quorum because the
two of them recused themselves. Maria's not here. There's only three
of us.
MS. LOUVIERE: Celia.
MS. RAWSON: Celia's not here.
MR. MANALICH: Okay. Well, you know, I
MS. RAWSON: Well, you wouldn't be here either.
MR. MANALICH: I simply --
MS. LOUVIERE: That's right.
MR. MANALICH: You know, I appreciate the concerns of
the board, and I think what I will do if -- what I'd like if I could
have just a brief recess to perhaps contact the parties and let them
know that the board has chosen not to hear this. And apparently your
your preference is to hear it simply at the next regular agenda;
is that correct?
MR. LAFORET: Right.
MS. LOUVIERE: Uh-huh, yes.
MR. MANALICH: And we'll have to sort through the issues
at that time as they have developed.
MS. LOUVIERE: And I think that will give staff some
time to sort through these issues too.
MR. MANALICH: Well, I appreciate that. And I did
want to inconvenience the board, but I did want to make
this was developing in case you did want to address it.
happy, though, to advise the parties of your decision.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: That's fine.
MR. MANALICH: Okay.
MR. ANDREWS: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: With all that, okay, shall we have a
motion to approve the amended agenda?
MR. LAFORET: I move we approve the continuance.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: No, this is a motion --
MS. LOUVIERE: I make a motion that we amend the amend
that we approve the amended agenda.
MS. RAWSON: I second.
Exactly.
And I excused myself last week and the
not
you aware that
I'll be
Page 7
October 26, 1995
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: All those in favor?
Passes unanimously.
We'll go now to the approval --
MR. ANDREWS: As amended; right?
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Yes.
MS. LOUVIERE: As amended.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: We'll go now to the approval of the
minutes dated September 22, 1995. Do we have any modifications to the
minutes?
Members of the board, do we have any problems with the
minutes?
MS. LOUVIERE: I make a motion that we approve the
minutes.
MR. LAFORET: Second.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Passes unanimously.
We'll go now to our public hearings. Miss Cruz, would
you like to begin?
MS. CRUZ: Yes, sir. Our next case is Board of County
Commissioners versus Terri L. Kirwan, case number 950-16 (sic). I've
prepared a composite exhibit of 15 pages. I'd like to request for
this composite exhibit to be admitted into evidence.
MS. RAWSON: I would move the introduction into
evidence.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: I'll second that.
We have a motion and a second to introduce the minutes
into evidence. Do we have a -- all those in favor signify by saying
aye, please.
Carries unanimously.
Continue, please.
MS. CRUZ: Let the record show that Mr. Kirwan is not
present. Mr. Kirwan is the property owner of -- at the property
located at 248 Madison Drive, Naples, Florida, more particularly
described as Willoughby Acres, lot 261 and the east half of lot 262.
Mr. Kirwan is in violation of a placement of landscaping in the
right-of-way without first obtaining the proper Collier County
permits.
A notice of violation was served to Mr. Kirwan on April
-- April 18, '95, requesting this violation to be corrected by June
30, '95. The last reinspection was conducted yesterday, October 25,
which resulted the violations still exist.
Staff is open for any questions from the board members.
MR. MCCORMICK: Have you had any contact with Mr. Kirwan
because I notice here he said he wanted to argue his case in front of
the board? Do you know why?
MR. LAFORET: He was here before, a short while ago, 20
minutes.
MR. HEDRICH: That was Mr. Landgrebe.
MS. CRUZ: Mr. Hedrich, would you come to the stand,
please? Raise your right hand.
THEREUPON,
DAVID HEDRICH,
a witness, having been first duly sworn, upon his oath, testified as
Page 8
October 26, 1995
follows:
MS. CRUZ: State your name for the record again.
MR. HEDRICH: Dave Hedrich, Collier County code
enforcement investigator.
MS. CRUZ: Mr. Hedrich, I'm repeating Mr. Laforet's
question. Have you had communication with Mr. Kirwan?
MR. HEDRICH: Yes, I have, several occasions, including
yesterday. I spoke to Mr. Kirwan after visiting his residence. He
had begun the removal of certain items from the right-of-way that
could not be permitted, cutting down of some ficus trees that he had
planted in the right-of-way. And in order to obtain the permit for
the remainder of the landscaping in the right-of-way, that was part of
the process, that the ficus trees be removed because they could not be
permitted. Mr. Kirwan also indicated that he would be here this
morning. Evidently we haven't seen him as of yet.
MS. CRUZ: Staff has no further questions.
MR. ANDREWS: Did you say he did -- he did need a -- a
permit to take the to take down the ficus trees?
MR. HEDRICH: He doesn't need a permit to take down the
ficus trees.
MR. ANDREWS: But -- but -- but they're illegal, and --
and he was -- he was supposed to take those down too.
MR. HEDRICH: Right. And that is one item that cannot
be permitted. No matter what, the ficus trees would have to be
removed before the permit could be issued for the remainder of the
landscaping.
MR. ANDREWS: And and did he get a permit for the
shrubbery?
MR. HEDRICH: The permit cannot be obtained until the
trees have been removed.
MR. ANDREWS: Oh, okay.
MR. MANALICH: Mr. Hedrich
MR. LAFORET: Excuse me. I have a question. On your
photographs on page 14 showing the property --
MR. HEDRICH: Yes, sir.
MR. LAFORET: -- is that the only property -- as you
look down the street I don't see any other properties that have
planted up to the -- to the grass line.
MR. HEDRICH: Yes.
MR. LAFORET: Is that the only one?
MR. HEDRICH: The only property with the landscaping all
the way out to the roadway.
MR. LAFORET: Is there a swale or drainage ditch on this
property?
MR. HEDRICH: Yes, sir.
MR. LAFORET: How would the county get to that to clean
it?
MR. HEDRICH: That is precisely, you know, how this all
came to be. The county does not have access into that swale with all
the landscaping that has been added.
MR. LAFORET: Thank you, sir.
MR. MANALICH: Mr. Hedrich, what type of notice for this
hearing was provided to Mr. Kirwan? Was it certified mail?
MR. HEDRICH: Yes, it was certified mail.
Page 9
October 26, 1995
MR. MANALICH: Does it -- do we have a receipt that it
was received?
MS. CRUZ: On page 8 of Composite Exhibit A, there's a
copy of the certified receipt signed by Brandy Kirwan on June 10 of
, 95 .
MR. MANALICH: In addition, Mr. Hedrich, you said you
spoke to him yesterday and he was aware of the hearing today?
MR. HEDRICH: Yes, he was.
MR. MANALICH: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: What's staff's recommendation?
MS. CRUZ: Staff recommendation -- recommends that a
hundred dollars be imposed for every day of non-compliance, have Mr.
Kirwan comply within ten days, remove the -- the landscaping from the
right-of-way or paying the proper permits or a hundred dollars be
imposed for every day the violation exists.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Would you like to do the honors this
morning?
MS. RAWSON: Sure.
MS. CRUZ: Mr. Chairman, staff would like to amend that
recommendation, instead of ten days give -- allow Mr. Kirwan 30 days
due to a previous conversation with Mr. Hedrich and Mr. Kirwan.
MR. MANALICH: Before we proceed any further, I just
would like to inquire of the court reporter/clerk if she has a copy of
Staff Composite Exhibit A.
THE COURT REPORTER: Yes, I do.
MR. MANALICH: I'd like to -- let me just take the
opportunity to mark that. Has it already been marked? Just one
moment.
MR. ANDREWS: Maria, who recommended 30 days?
MS. CRUZ: Staff is recommending 30 days.
MR. ANDREWS: Why -- why 30 days?
MS. CRUZ: There was a previous conversation with Mr.
Hedrich and Mr. Kirwan, and it was agreed that we would allow him 30
days to remove the ficus trees from the right-of-way and obtain the
proper permits.
MR. HEDRICH: Mr. Kirwan's now here.
MR. ANDREWS: It seems to me he had -- he had -- he's
had plenty of time on this, but it's not that big of job. Why -- why
we should allow him the 30 days I don't quite understand.
MS. LOUVIERE: I'm sorry. Did you say Mr. Kirwan is now
here?
MR. HEDRICH: Yes, he is. Would you like to step up,
Mr. Kirwan?
MR. KIRWAN: The reason for that
MS. CRUZ: Mr. Kirwan, please raise your right hand.
MR. KIRWAN: Oh.
THEREUPON,
BRIAN KIRWAN,
a witness, having been first duly sworn, upon his oath, testified as
follows:
MS. CRUZ: State your name for the record, please.
MR. KIRWAN: Brian Michael Kirwan. The reason I was
asking for 30 days is at this time the stumps are under water and that
it was hard to get the stumps out at this time. They're -- right now
Page 10
October 26, 1995
the swale grade is just so full that it was just impossible to get a
chain saw under water to try to remove the stumps.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Excuse me, Mr. Kirwan. What
relationship are you to Terri L. Kirwan?
MR. KIRWAN: Her husband.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Okay.
MR. MCCORMICK: Is it your intention, Mr. Kirwan, to
remove the ficus trees?
MR. KIRWAN: Yes. Most of the trees are all gone right
now. It's just the actual stump that's left. There was two trees.
There's about a five -- a stump about this tall, and I just -- at this
time they were submerged in water, and I was just waiting for the
swale grade to drain -- to drain enough so that I could physically
remove them, and that was the reason for that.
MS. LOUVIERE: So basically you've removed all the
landscaping; is that correct?
MR. KIRWAN: The ficuses.
MS. LOUVIERE: The ficuses.
MR. KIRWAN: Right.
MS. LOUVIERE: And then you're gOlng to try to obtain a
right-of-way permit --
MR. KIRWAN: Yes.
MS. LOUVIERE:
MR. KIRWAN: Yes,
MS. LOUVIERE:
right-of-way.
MR. KIRWAN: Right.
MS. LOUVIERE: Okay.
MR. KIRWAN: Right.
MS. LOUVIERE: And you would like to have 30 days to
finish removing the ficus stumps, and then you were going to go to the
county and get a right-of-way permit and put in the landscaping or be
allowed.
MR. KIRWAN: Right, exactly.
MR. MANALICH: Mr. Kirwan, are you authorized to be here
today representing Terri Kirwan on this matter in this hearing?
MR. KIRWAN: My wife is here with me.
MR. MANALICH: Oh, she is also here?
MR. KIRWAN: Yes.
MR. MANALICH: Okay.
MR. HEDRICH: Might I add one thing that our
right-of-way inspector, Bill Spencer, has already been to the site and
has made a statement that once the ficus trees are removed he will
provide a permit for the remainder of the landscaping in the
right-of-way, just that he couldn't permit the ficus trees to be
there.
MR. MANALICH: Just to be clear, Mr. Kirwan, are you
contesting this charge of this violation, or are you admitting that
this violation exists?
MR. KIRWAN: Oh, I admit that the -- yeah, that the
trees are there, and I had attempted to get them approved, and they
didn't feel as though they wanted the ficuses there. They didn't have
a problem with the other landscaping that was there. It was just
requested that the ficuses be removed, and that's where I'm at at this
to place --
I am.
the landscaping in the --
in
the
This is what you're proposing.
Page 11
October 26, 1995
point.
MR. ANDREWS: You -- you say you have cut the trees, but
the stumps are still there; right?
MR. KIRWAN: Yes, sir.
MR. ANDREWS: And -- and as soon as -- as soon as you're
able to work on them, you're going -- you're going -- you're going to
have the stumps removed.
MR. KIRWAN: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
MS. CRUZ: Mr. Kirwan, one thing, you are legally
authorized to represent Terri L. Kirwan under this -- on this case?
MR. KIRWAN: Yes, yes, yes.
MS. CRUZ: And we also want you to understand that you
have the 30 days. You will remove the stumps and obtain the permit
within those 30 days.
MR. KIRWAN: Right.
MS. LOUVIERE: I -- does anyone have any other questions
because I'm getting ready to make a motion?
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Do we have any more comments by
staff or the board?
MS. SULLIVAN: We just wanted to make clear that the
permit -- Linda Sullivan. I'm the code enforcement director. We just
would like to make sure that the order clarifies that the permit will
also be obtained within that 30-day period as well as the removal.
MS. LOUVIERE: I make a motion that we grant Mr. and in
this case Mrs. Kirwan because she's your wife and she's the legal
owner 30 days to remove the ficus stumps and obtain the right-of-way
permit or we will start fining you as recommended by staff of a
hundred dollars per day.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: We need to do an order imposing
fine.
MR. MANALICH: Do you have -- I have the two sample
orders, the one for no findings and the other one for findings. Do
you -- does any of you need that?
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: I think Miss Louviere will need
that.
MS. LOUVIERE: Oh, am I going to do this? No, I don't
like doing this.
MR. MANALICH: Let me provide you one of each, and you
can choose whichever's appropriate, the findings or no findings.
MS. RAWSON: You need the one with the findings.
MS. LOUVIERE: Okay. Well, do I have to make -- don't I
make the motion first and then we vote on it, and then I could into
right -- just go into -- right into finding of facts? Okay. I guess
I have to go right into findings of facts, conclusion of law, and
order of the board; correct?
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: (Chairperson nodded head.)
MS. LOUVIERE: This cause came on for public hearing
before the board on -- today's what? October the 25th? 26th? -- 26,
1995, and the board having heard testimony under oath, received
evidence, and heard arguments respective to all appropriate matters --
getting it? -- thereupon issues this findings of fact, conclusions of
law, and order of the board as following: That -- give me a moment,
and I'll go through it -- Terri L. Kirwan, K-i-r-w-a-n, is the owner
of record of the subject property; that the -- number two, that the
Page 12
October 26, 1995
Code Enforcement Board has jurisdiction of the person of the
respondent and that Miss Kirwan was present at the public hearing and
represented by Mr. Kirwan who spoke for her; number three, all notices
required by Collier County ordinance number 92-80 have been properly
issued; number four, that the real property legally described as --
can I just reference my agenda?
MR. MANALICH: Yes. If you will grant me the authority
in the order to include a reference to the deed and other property
information in the composite exhibit, I will insert that.
MS. LOUVIERE: I hereby grant you that authority.
MR. MANALICH: Thank you.
MS. LOUVIERE: And, therefore, I do not have to read
number four at all, correct, because you're going to insert the deed
and you're going to insert --
MR. MANALICH: Right, but it does reference what is the
-- the section and violation of what ordinance. You do need to state
that.
MS. LOUVIERE: Okay. She is in violation of sections 4
of ordinance 93-64, the Collier County right-of-way ordinance. And
the description of the violation is placement of landscaping ln the
right-of-way without first obtaining proper permit.
The conclusion of law, that Miss Terri L. Kirwan is in
violation of section 4 of ordinance 93-64 which is -- I just read that
which is -- and she -- basically she's placing landscaping in the
right-of-way without first obtaining proper perming -- permit.
It is the order of board that based upon the foregoing
findings of facts and conclusions of law and pursuant to the authority
granted in Chapter 162, Florida Statutes, and Collier County ordinance
92-80, it is hereby ordered that the respondent correct the violation
of section 4 of ordinance 93-64 which is the Collier County
right-of-way ordinance in the following manner:
That the respondent has 30 days within to remove the
stumps of the ficus and obtain a right-of-way permit to be able to
place this landscaping in our right-of-ways in Collier County; that
said corrections be completed on or before -- could I please have 30
days from now which would be what? November
MR. HEDRICH: I don't have a calendar.
MS. LOUVIERE: -- by -- by 30 days from now and if
respondent does not comply with this order on or before that date,
then and in that event respondent is hereby ordered to pay a fine of
$100 per day for each and every day any violation described herein
continues past said date. Failure to comply with the order within the
specified time will result in the recordation of a lien pursuant to
Chapter 162, Florida Statutes, which may be foreclosed and
respondent's property sold to enforce this lien.
Done and ordered this 26th day of October, 1995, in
Collier County, Florida.
MR. MANALICH: Mr. Chairman, as you act on that motion,
one item to keep in mind with regard to the suggested penalty lS that
under the statute you are to consider, as always, the gravity of the
violation, any actions taken by the violator to correct the violation,
whether there have been any previous ones committed by the violator.
MS. LOUVIERE: And we did, and I think that's why staff
recommended a fine of $100 per day and not the maximum that is
Page 13
October 26, 1995
allowable.
MR. MANALICH:
MS. LOUVIERE:
to comply with us.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: We have a motion. Do we have a
MR. ANDREWS: I second both the find -- findings of fact
and the order.
MS. RAWSON: I think we should probably vote first on
the findings of fact and conclusions of law and if that passes then
vote on the order.
MR. ANDREWS: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: We have a motion, and let's amend
the second. Is that what you'd like to do to vote on the findings of
fact?
MR. ANDREWS: Findings of fact.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: All those in favor?
Pass unanimously.
Now we'll go to a motion and a -- we have a motion now
by Miss Louviere for the --
MR. ANDREWS: I second the -- I second the --
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: -- order imposing fine?
MR. ANDREWS: On the order, yes.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
None, so we have -- passes unanimously.
So, Mr. Kirwan, you're -- you're up to speed. You've
got 30 days to obtain a permit and get the ficus stumps out of the
area. And whatever permits you need from the right-of-way people, we
need to obtain that.
MR. KIRWAN: Okay.
MS. LOUVIERE: Otherwise we start fining you, okay, so
you've got 30 days?
MR. MANALICH: Just to be perfectly clear for the order,
the order is that the respondent has 30 days from today's date to
remove the stumps and ficus trees and obtain a proper permit.
MS. LOUVIERE: Obtain a right-of-way permit.
MR. MANALICH: Right-of-way permit.
MS. LOUVIERE: Uh-huh.
MR. MANALICH: Otherwise a fine of $100 per day.
MS. LOUVIERE: Commences.
MR. ANDREWS: Is that -- is that right-of-way permit
difficult to get? Can you go right there --
MS. LOUVIERE: They're very -- they're very easy to
obtain.
MR. ANDREWS: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Thank you all. Staff, shall we
continue to our next case?
MS. CRUZ: Yes, sir.
MS. LOUVIERE: Thank you.
MR. ANDREWS: New business.
MS. CRUZ: Our next item is under new business. Item A,
the Board of County Commissioners versus John R. Landgrebe and Emily
L. Landgrebe, case number 95-010. Staff would like to request a
That's fine.
We understand that -- that he lS
trying
Page 14
October 26, 1995
filing of the affidavit of compliance. This case appeared on --
before this board on August -- I'm sorry, on September 14, '95. The
board ordered Mr. Landgrebe to take correction action to correct the
violation by removing the unpermitted mobile home from the location.
An inspection was conducted on August twenty -- on October 25 which
revealed that the violation had been removed.
MR. MCCORMICK: Can you tell us what the corrective
action was?
MS. CRUZ: He removed the mobile home from the property.
MR. MCCORMICK: Removed it?
MS. CRUZ: Uh-huh.
MS. LOUVIERE: I make a motion that we file the
affidavit of compliance.
MR. ANDREWS: Second.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Carries unanimously.
MR. MANALICH: Were any fines incurred ln this case?
MS. CRUZ: No fines.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: That concludes Mr. Landgrebe.
MS. CRUZ: Yes, sir.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Okay. Shall we continue to Mr.
Parks?
MS. CRUZ: Next item is Board of County Commissioners
versus Ronnie Parks, case number 95-006. This case appeared before
this board on May 25 of '95. Again, an order was issued ordering Mr.
Parks to correct the violation of unlawful accumulation of litter,
unlawful accumulation of unlicensed non-operable vehicles, and
unlawful storage of a travel trailer being used as a primary
residence.
Reinspections were conducted resulting in a
non-compliance. Staff is requesting that an order imposing fine be
filed for the total number of days of 72 days times the amount im -_
ordered by this board which is $750 per day.
MS. LOUVIERE: Could you explain to me why the fine's
$750 for the record?
MS. CRUZ: Yes, the fines -- the fines were set at 250,
$250, per violation. There were a total of three violations which
became to be a total of $750 per day.
MS. LOUVIERE: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Has staff had any conversation with
Mr. Parks since this order imposing fine?
MS. CRUZ: I will let Mr. Hedrich comment on this
question.
MR. HEDRICH: Hello once again. Yes, we've had quite an
extensive conversation with Larry Parks who has been residing out
there at this property; no conversation with Ronnie Parks whatsoever.
And as of this time, we haven't had any conversation with Ronnie
Parks. Larry Parks, who is residing on that property at this time,
gave us quite a scuffle the last time we were out there. It involved
quite an extensive long day, the sheriff's department, the
confiscating of a loaded weapon, and threat -- death threats and so
on.
MR. LAFORET: Did he miss you?
Page 15
October 26, 1995
MR. ANDREWS: He must have.
MR. MANALICH: I have a couple of questions. First, I
believe that notice was furnished to both Ronnie and Larry Parks of
today's hearing; is that correct?
MS. CRUZ: That's correct.
MR. MANALICH: In what manner?
MS. CRUZ: Certified mail.
MR. MANALICH: And was any of that returned as of this
date?
MS.
returned
received
MR.
MS.
that. I
MR.
Ronnie.
MS. CRUZ:
of record.
MR. MANALICH:
address?
MS. CRUZ: Uh-huh.
MR. MANALICH: Okay. There was also I believe -- notice
was sent to the property site itself where Mr. Larry Parks is
residing?
MS. CRUZ: That's correct.
MS. RAWSON: I have a question. In our order of June
13, we ordered that he pay 250 a day per violation each and every
day. Did I hear you just recommend 150?
MS. LOUVIERE: No.
MS. CRUZ: Seven fifty.
MS. RAWSON: Seven fifty, okay. That's for each
violation, a total of 750.
MS. CRUZ: Right.
MS. RAWSON: Okay.
MR. MANALICH: My question on that would be as I look at
that order, it does say that the correction is A, removal and clean-up
of litter; B, cease using trailer as living residence. And then it
mentions that in the event that does not comply with the order,
respondent's hereby ordered to pay a fine of $250 per violation per
day. Are there just two violations there?
MS. CRUZ: No, there's three violations. On the order
on page 1 where it says description of violation, item A, violation
number one is unlawful accumulation of litter consisting of cement
roof tiles, metal, plastic, paper, wood, glass, derelict vehicle parts
and piles of tires; violation two, unlawful accumulation of unlicensed
and on -- and/or non-operable vehicles; and violation three, unlawful
storage of travel trailer being used as a primary residence.
MR. MANALICH: And those -- all three of those continue
to exist as violations.
MS. CRUZ: That's correct.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Mr. Hedrich, this
same one that wrote you that nice personal
MR. HEDRICH: There's been so many, I
CRUZ: The certified receipt for Ronnie Parks was
-- excuse me, was signed for, and the certified receipt was
at our office.
MANALICH: Was that signed for by Larry Parks?
CRUZ: It was signed by L. picks or something like
cannot understand the writing and the signature.
MANALICH: That was sent to his last -- Mr. Parks,
It was sent to the Tennessee address, address
That was Ronnie Parks' last known
Mr. Parks is the
memo back in May; right?
can't recall
Page 16
October 26, 1995
exactly which one you're speaking.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: I think it was an exhibit back in
Mayor June.
MR. HEDRICH: Oh, the statement I had written out?
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Yes, sir.
MR. HEDRICH: Yeah. Based on one of our conversations,
yes, the same Mr. Parks.
MS. RAWSON: I have a motion. I'd first like to move
for introduction into evidence the affidavit of non-compliance dated
October 11, 1995.
MR. ANDREWS: Second.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Carries unanimously.
MS. RAWSON: Then my second motion is that the
respondent, Ronnie Parks, be ordered to pay to Collier County a fine
in the amount of whatever 72 days times 750 is.
MS. CRUZ: Fifty-four thousand.
MS. RAWSON: Thank you. Fifty-four thousand dollars for
non-compliance with the board's order of June 13, 1995; that that fine
is for the dates of July 24, August 30, September 6, September 25, and
October 3; and that that $750 per day fine continue to accrue until
the respondent Ronnie Parks comes into compliance.
MS. LOUVIERE: I second it.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: We have a motion and a second.
MR. LAFORET: I have a -- I have a question on what she
said. Does this fine -- to staff, does that include the costs of the
investigation by the environmental protection which I understand was
some 360 hours or something, 36 hours I think it was?
MS. CRUZ: No, sir. This amount strictly includes the
amount of fines.
MR. LAFORET: It's just your costs in your shop. All
right. Thank you.
MS. LOUVIERE: But statute dictates that we can only
fine certain amounts.
MS. CRUZ: Right.
MS. LOUVIERE: So that's why staff lS recommending $250
per violation per day.
MS. CRUZ: Correct.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: That's as extreme as this board can
go?
MR. MCCORMICK: Uh-huh.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: So we have a motion and a second.
Any further discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Carries unan --
MS. RAWSON: I--
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Excuse me. Sorry. It carries
unanimously.
MR. MANALICH: Mr. Chairman --
MS. RAWSON: I have a third motion, and that is that the
order should be recorded, and then that would constitute a lien
against the property.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Second for that?
Page 17
October 26, 1995
MS. LOUVIERE: I second it.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Okay. We have a motion and a second
for recordation of lien. All those in favor signify by saying aye.
That carries unanimously also.
MR. MANALICH: Mr. Chairman, just one item -- one item
to consider in this. Going back to my earlier point, the question
that I'm dealing with here is whether the way the order is structured
he's been ordered to do two things for three types of violations. The
question is whether we have properly imposed fines on two or three
violations.
As I look at the violations, one is the unlawful
accumulation of litter consisting of a number of items that were
disposed of on the property; two is the unlawful accumulation of
non-operable vehicles. Now, is that a separate section of the litter
ordinance, or is that simply another description of litter on the
property?
And then three, we have the unlawful storage of a travel
trailer. My understanding is a travel trailer, that is -- is that not
a separate violation apart from the litter ordinance?
So we clearly have two. What I'm struggling with is
whether we actually have two or three violations because it may be
that one and two are actually both litter violations.
MS. CRUZ: It's a separate violation, the unlicensed
vehicles from the litter.
MR. MANALICH: You consider them separate?
MS. CRUZ: Uh-huh.
MR. MANALICH: They're separate parts of the ordinance?
MS. CRUZ: Separate section of the ordinance, yes.
MS. LOUVIERE: So in addition to that, an order of the
board states that the respondent correct the violations of sections 5,
6, 7, and 8 of ordinance number 91-47, but -- and that -- which is
which is the Collier County litter ordinance. But then it states
sections 26711 and 2115 of 91-102. So basically he is also in
violations of two sections of the Land Development Code.
MR. MANALICH: Right.
MS. LOUVIERE: So you are still concerning yourself with
three violations.
MR. MANALICH: It appears that's correct. The only
thing I'm struggling with a little bit is simply if we've only ordered
him to do two things to correct -- but I agree with you. I think the
essence is how many violations are there, and you can fine per
violation, not per order you issued. So I agree. We can uphold the
prior motion.
That amount, Miss Rawson, was $54,000; is that correct?
MS. RAWSON: I think that's right.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Do we have any more discussion by
staff or the board members?
MS. CRUZ: No more discussion.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Okay. We will continue now to our
that concludes our new business. We'll now go to our old
business.
MS. CRUZ:
Board of County
number 95-011.
Our next item under old business ,is item A,
Commissioners versus Jack A. Queen, trustee, CEB
This case appeared before this board on September 22,
Page 18
October 26, 1995
'95. After having heard testimony under oath, received evidence, and
heard arguments respective to all this -- to this matter, this case
was continued for one month, for today's date, October 26, '95.
At the hearing on September 22, '95, Mr. Queen appeared
before this board and stated that the violation had been corrected,
and this board orders -- continued the case for one month to staff to
verify the compliance of the violation.
Staff did -- conducted a -- conducted a violation -- a
recheck on this property and confirmed the violation had been
removed. We are asking that this case be dismissed at this time.
MR. MCCORMICK: I'll make a motion we dismiss the
charges against Mr. Queen, Code Enforcement Board case number 95-011.
MR. ANDREWS: I second.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: We have a motion and a second to
dismiss those charges. All those --
MR. LAFORET: Second.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: And a second second. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
And that carries unanimously.
We go now to reports. Do we have any reports by staff,
board members, or counsel?
MS. CRUZ: No reports.
MS. LOUVIERE: I have a question.
is just a question. Can -- does the
over Collier County staff?
MR. MANALICH: In what respect?
MS. LOUVIERE: If we rule on something, can Collier
County staff then revisit an item and come in with different decisions
than what we -- who has -- who's the highest power in the land?
MR. MANALICH: Well, that's -- I think by implication
you're referring to the earlier discussion on the Jay's case, and that
is an interesting question. And, frankly, I think that's going to
require a hearing on this matter to see exactly how things developed.
MS. LOUVIERE: See?
MR. MANALICH: Essentially, I mean, I see you operating
on different spheres in a sense. I mean, Mr. Mulhere just reminded
me, that, you know, the planning staff and the county attorney's staff
typically are the ones that interpret the Land Development Code.
MS. LOUVIERE: Uh-huh.
MR. MANALICH: Obviously I think -- and this is a pretty
unique case. I -- what I would recommend is we simply -- you've
chosen to defer hearing it and see --
MS. LOUVIERE: Well, that's fine.
MR. MANALICH: Yeah.
MS. LOUVIERE: I just wanted to kind of be prepared to
answer that question --
MR. MANALICH: Right.
MS. LOUVIERE: -- when we come back in a month.
MR. MANALICH: And that is an issue in the case no
doubt.
MS. LOUVIERE: I think so.
MR. MANALICH: Essentially you each have somewhat
independent but yet in some cases overlapping spheres of
responsibility.
This is not -- this
does this board have authority
Page 19
October 26, 1995
MS. LOUVIERE: Uh-huh.
MR. MANALICH: And sometimes they overlap in interesting
ways which we'll have to sort out. I don't know if I can provide you
an answer right here today is the only thing.
MS. LOUVIERE: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: No other questions?
I've got -- I've got one question for Miss Sullivan. Do
you think it would be appropriate to have Mr. Hedrich hand deliver
this $54,000 lien to Mr. Parks in Newport, Tennessee?
MS. SULLIVAN: I'm not sure it'd be real safe, and I
don't think I want to go with him. I went the last time. Thank you.
MR. HEDRICH: I would like to request a tank to do so.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: I just thought I'd ask that
question.
Mr. Mulhere.
MR. MULHERE: I just wanted to add something. Bob
Mulhere with current planning staff.
In general interpretations are -- the Land Development
Code provides that the planning services director is the person
charged with interpreting the code. And we are required by the Land
Development Code to counsel -- to seek, you know, the counsel of the
county attorney's office to find that they concur with our
interpretation.
But there are some gray areas I think as were alluded
to. Certainly anyone with standing has the ability to disagree with
that interpretation and to challenge it, and there is a process that's
set up for that. And I don't want -- without being specific, that
could be someone who is found to be in violation or someone who feels
that there was a violation and disagrees with the staff
interpretation.
So either way anyone with standing could challenge that,
and there is a process that is set up through the Land Development
Code. And I -- you know, legally I don't know whether that extends to
the board if they disagreed with a finding of -- of the planning
services director or not but --
MR. MANALICH: I think we'll need to be prepared.
Obviously you've chosen to hear that particular case next month. All
parties will be prepared to address that issue. It has kind of come
at us in a backward-type fashion because, of course, this occurred
after the order as opposed to previous to the order which is another
complication.
But again, I think the safest course obviously that I
would on behalf of staff today request of you is simply to defer this
matter as you've chosen to do and hear all the parties and then see
how it sorts out.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: That's fine. Do we have any other
reports or comments?
Our next meeting date will be November 30. Are we going
to continue to meet at 8:30 in the morning?
MS. CRUZ: That's okay with staff.
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Okay with everyone?
MR. ANDREWS: Yeah, I thought that was permanent.
MS. RAWSON: It was my suggestion, and I love it. It's
only 9:27, and we're out of here.
Page 20
October 26, 1995
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: Wonderful.
MR. HEDRICH: Nice change.
MR. MANALICH: That's November 30?
CHAIRPERSON ALLEN: November 30, 8:30 in the morning.
Do we have any other comments by staff, counsel, or
members of the board?
We'll adjourn this meeting.
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 9:28 a.m.
cctJ5*ARD
JIM ALLEN, CHAIRPERSON
These minutes approved by the Board ~~4AI~
as presented or as corrected ~.
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT REPORTING
BY: Shelly Semmler
Page 21