CBMDG Minutes 02/17/2011
CAC
CLAM BAY MARKER
DISCUSSION GROUP
MEETING
MINUTES
FEBRUARY 17, 2011
MEETING AGENDA
CLAM BAY MARKER DISCUSSION GROUP
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 17,2011- 9:00 A.M. TILL 12:00 P.M.
RISK MANAGEMENT TRAINING ROOM
3311 TAMIAMI TRAIL EAST, NAPLES
I. Call to Order
II. Pledge of Allegiance
III. Changes and Approval of Discussion Approach Including the Consideration of
Additional Stakeholder Representatives
IV. Approval of Minutes
V. Marker Discussion through Stakeholder Representatives
VI. Public Comments
VII. Announcements with Follow-up
VIII. Next Meeting Date/Location
Wednesday February23, 2011; Risk Management Training Room, 3311 Tamiami
Trail East, Naples
IX. Adjournment
* Public speakers are requested to do the following for any items presented to the Board:
Display on each document the presenter's name and title of document. Provide a total of 7
copies of each handout, to be distributed as follows: 3 Board Members; 1 Minute Taker; 1
County Attorney; 2 CZM Staff members.
* The following websites will provide information, agendas and dates for this subcommittee:
htt/J://www.collieTf!ov.net/Index.as/Jx ?/Jaf!e= 18
htt/J://www.collierf!ov.net/Index.as/Jx ? /Jaf!e= 2390
All interested partied are invited to attend, and to register to speak and to submit their objections, if any, in writing, to the board prior
to the meeting if applicable.
For more information, please contact Gail D. Hambright at (239) 252-2966.
If you are a person with a disability who needs any accommodation in order to participate in this proceeding, you are entitled, at no
cost to you, to the provision of certain assistance. Please contact the Collier County Facilities Management Department located at
3301 East Tamiami Trail, Naples, FL 34112, (239) 252-8380.
Public comments will be limited to 3 minutes unless the Chairman grants permission for additional time.
Collier County Ordinance No. 99-22 requires that all lobbyists shall, before engaging in any lobbying activities (including, but not
limited to, addressing the Board of County Commissioners) before the Board of County Commissioners and its advisory boards,
register with the Clerk to the Board at the Board Minutes and Records Department.
All,
Attached is a draft for a starting position prepared by CZM following extensive
discussions with FWC for the Clam Bay marker discussion tomorrow.
FWC will approve/permit only what is outlined as follows:
1. Only canoe trail markers for the clam bay route between the pass location to the
Seagate neighborhood can be permitted. These are markers identified as 1
through 12. These markers will be located off to the side to open the area up for
passage. A sample of the markers that are approvable by FWC are attached.
2. The location of the markers have been verified and tentatively approved with
FWC. They are in general agreement pending final review. They will have the
ultimate approval for location.
3. If additional markers are required, we have the ability to justify them with FWC.
4. Two Informational markers are recommended at the beach and one at the
entrance to the Seagate neighborhood. A sign sample is attached.
5. Informational markers that identify the position of Shoals and Seagrasses will be
permitted. We have identified 4 or so markers that will be used in the system.
These will be used to guide users into the deeper water.
The meeting will be conducted as outlined in the previous sent emaillisted below. The
public announcement is attached.
As follow-up to the direction given staff by the Board of County commissioners on
1/25/2011, this is our plan to discuss and resolve the marking of Clam Pass/Bay.
Please share this memo with other interested parties.
. Two public meeting will be set up to discuss a marking plan with the public.
. The first meeting will be held on 2/17/2011 and the second will be noticed on
2/23/2011. Gail Hambright will notice these meeting today or Monday
1/31/2011. The meeting will be held at 9 am and open to the public. Locations
will be identified in the Public Notice. Summary minutes will be taken and
recorded with the Clerk's office. The second meeting will be held if there are
follow-up items to the 2/17/2011 meeting and can be canceled if not needed.
. The following groups have requested the opportunity to participate in these
meetings. A representative from each group will be offered the opportunity to
participate in the discussion and speak for their respective communities. In
addition, the entire public will be afforded the opportunity to individually speak
during public comment.
a. Mike Bauer - Natural Resources Manager for the City of Naples
b. Ernie Wu - President of the Seagate Homeowners Community
c. Steve Feldhaus - Secretary of the Pelican Bay Foundation
d. Keith Dallas - Chairman of the Pelican Bay Services Division
e. Mary Johnson - President of the Mangrove Action Committee
f. Kathy Worley - Environmental Specialists from the Conservancy
g. McAlpin, Ramsey and Keyes from the County
h. Staff will consult with FWC prior to the first meeting and solicit their
participation. Based on the outcome of our discussions, FWC may also
participate in the second meeting.
. CZM will propose a plan to start the discussion. This plan will be posted on the
website several days prior to the 1 ih.
. Other meetings will be held as needed to reach closure.
February 17,2011
MINUTES OF THE CLAM BAY DISCUSSION GROUP
Risk Management Training Room
3311 Tamiami Trail, East Naples
Naples, FL, February 17, 2011
I. Call to Order
The Discussion began at 9:00 A.M.
The following Stakeholders were represented: Honorable John Sorey, City of
Naples; Mary Johnson, Mangrove Action Group; Steve Feldhaus, Pelican Bay
Foundation; Keith Dallas, Pelican Bay Services Division; Dr. Ernest Wu, Seagate
Homeowner's Assoc.; Marcia Cravens, Sierra Club; Kathy Worley, Conservancy of
Southwest Florida.
The following Collier County staff members were present: Gary McAlpin, Director,
Coastal Zone Management; Gail Hambright, Accountant; Pamela Keyes,
Environmental Specialist; Marla Ramsey, Administrator, Public Services.
Georgia Hiller, Collier County Commissioner, was also present.
II. Pledge of Allegiance
The Pledge of Allegiance was recited.
III. Changes and Approval of Discussion Approach Including the Consideration of
Additional Stakeholder Representatives.
Representation as listed above.
IV. Approval of Minutes
None
V. Marker Discussion through Stakeholder Representatives
Gary McAlpin, Director, Coastal Zone Management circulated a document
outlining a starting position for the discussion including a map for the proposed
marking of the system from Clam Bay south of Sea gate to the Gulf of Mexico.
He noted:
. The proposed marking of the channel will require approval by the Florida Fish
and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FFWCC) and Staff has been in
contact with FFWCC employee Ryan Moreau. Ms. Cravens objected to Mr.
Moreau not having the ability to provide input to the meeting.
. There are 12 proposed "canoe trail markers," 18" x 18" placed on 4" x 4"
posts.
. There are 3 proposed informational caution signs ("Clam Pass - Caution-
Local Knowledge Required - Keep Lookout for Boaters and Swimmers'') on
post - 2 on the beach in the area of the Pass and 1 on Marker #1.
. There are 4 proposed (3 - "Caution Shoal" and 1 - "Sea grass Area")
informational buoy type markers.
1
MEETING AGENDA
CLAM BAY MARKER DISCUSSION GROUP
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 17,2011 - 9:00 A.M. TILL 12:00 P.M.
RISK MANAGEMENT TRAINING ROOM
3311 T AMIAMI TRAIL EAST, NAPLES
I. Call to Order
II. Pledge of Allegiance
III. Changes and Approval of Discussion Approach Including the Consideration of
Additional Stakeholder Representatives
IV. Approval of Minutes
V. Marker Discussion through Stakeholder Representatives
VI. Public Comments
VII. Announcements with Follow-up
VIII. Next Meeting Date/Location
Wednesday February23, 2011; Risk Management Training Room, 3311 Tamiami
Trail East, Naples
IX. Adjournment
* Public speakers are requested to do the following for any items presented to the Board:
Display on each document the presenter's name and title of document. Provide a total of 7
copies of each handout, to be distributed as follows: 3 Board Members; 1 Minute Taker; 1
County Attorney; 2 CZM Staff members.
* The following websites will provide information, agendas and dates for this subcommittee:
htto://www.collierflov.net/Index.asox?oafle=18
htto://www.collierflov.net/Index.asox ?oage=23 90
All interested partied are invited to attend, and to register to speak and to submit their objections, if any, in writing, to the board prior
to the meeting if applicable.
For more information, please contact Gail D. Hambright at (239) 252-2966.
If you are a person with a disability who needs any accommodation in order to participate in this proceeding, you are entitled, at no
cost to you, to the provision of certain assistance. Please contact the Collier County Facilities Management Department located at
3301 East Tamiami Trail, Naples, FL 34112, (239) 252-8380.
Public comments will be limited to 3 minutes unless the Chairman grants permission for additional time.
Collier County Ordinance No. 99-22 requires that all lobbyists shall, before engaging in any lobbying activities (including, but not
limited to, addressing the Board of County Commissioners) before the Board of County Commissioners and its advisory boards,
register with the Clerk to the Board at the Board Minutes and Records Department.
February 17,2011
· Discussions with representatives of the FFWCC indicate the proposed plan
may be approved.
· The system is identified as a Natural Resource Protection Area (NRP A).
· The area in question is defined as a "navigable waterway" by the US Coast
Guard.
Under stakeholder discussions, three (3) main reasons were identified for marking the
system:
1. Safety for the users of the system.
2. Environmental protection of the natural resources in the system.
3. Maintaining the historic navigational rights of the Seagate Community.
Under the discussion the following points/concerns were highlighted:
· The proposed marking should be integrated with existing or proposed marking
of other areas within the system.
· The use of buoys should be restricted as they have a tendency to scour the sea
bottom causing environmental damage.
· Consideration should be given to incorporating signs warning of a "Manatee
Zone, Slow Speed/Minimum Wake."
· Consideration should be given to placing any signs as necessary on the banks,
(as opposed to the waterway) this may alleviate some permitting
requirements.
Under stakeholder discussion, the following concerns were identified:
Safety
Dr. Wu noted the number and location of signs are adequate. He expressed concern
proposed markers are "canoe trail marker signs," not "navigational signs/markers."
These types of signs do not notify system users that motorized boats may be present.
In the past, this concept has caused confrontations between canoeists, kayakers,
swimmers and motorized boat users within the system.
Discussion continued noting:
· It is not the function of the FFWCC to permit "navigational marking" of
systems. Navigational marking requires approval of the US Coast Guard, an
avenue that the Board of County Commissioners has chosen not to pursue at
this time.
· Consideration should be given to placing the informational signs ("Clam Pass
- Caution - Local Knowledge Required - Keep Lookout for Boaters and
Swimmers'') on other markers proposed for the system.
· Consideration should be given to placing signs on the drawbridge.
· Consideration should be given to revising the signage at the canoe/kayak boat
launch located on the lands controlled by the Pelican Bay Foundation to notify
users that they may encounter motorized boats or swimmers in the system.
· The permitting and maintaining of the markers will be the responsibility of
Collier County Government (Coastal Zone Management).
2
February 17, 2011
VI. Public Comments
Speakers
Ted Raia, Pelican Bay Resident noted, in his opinion, the canoe markers satisfy the
conditions ofthe original permit (issued in1998) to maintain the system. He supports
revising the signage at the Pelican Bay Foundation area canoe launch to inform users
that they may encounter motorized boats and swimmers. He expressed concern the
US Coast Guard navigational charts were revised removing the "non navigable"
designation for the area.
Noreen Murray, Pelican Bay Resident expressed concern the uses in the area are
conflicting and it is difficult to utilize canoe markers to mark a "safe boating
channel." She recommended the type of boats permitted to utilize the system be
defined to assist in finding common ground for the type of markers required.
Gary McAlpin noted the types of motorized boats are defined as "shallow draft type
vessels."
Bonnie Michaels notes she kayaks in the system and questions if the area is being
"over protected." Responsibility to utilize the system safely lies with the users'
common sense and/or local knowledge.
David Roellig, Pelican Bay Resident noted not only signage is necessary in boating,
but these types of systems in general require owner/operator judgment to ensure
safety.
Rick Dykman, Seagate Resident noted the main concern for the community is the
proposal is a "canoe marker system." The community wants to ensure their historical
boating rights are maintained and some members of the community grow concerned
when these types of markers are proposed. He recommended directional arrows be
added to the signage to notify users the side of the marker required to traverse the
system safely.
Susan Ritas noted some of the concerns revolve around harassment, as opposed to
safety. The public needs to be put on notice that motorized boaters may utilize the
system.
Tim Hall recommended consideration be given to an additional "Sea Grass caution
sign" just south of Seagate and relocating marker #1 further south.
Ronnie Bellone, Pelican Bay Resident noted marking the system is important so all
users may utilize the system in harmony.
Jim Pelton, Seagate Resident noted it is important to mark the system properly to
ensure safety and place the users on notice on the types of vessels which may be
encountered in the system.
Mary Bolin suggested a public education program (notifications in the Pelican Bay
Post, Naples Daily News, Public Postings, etc.) be implemented to provide
notification on the types of activities occurrin,g in the system.
Sarah Wu, Seagate Resident requested clarification on the types of markers allowed
by FFWCC and questioned if the canoe type markers will satisfy the requirements of
Collier County's Risk Management Division.
3
February 17,2011
Gary McAlpin noted the FFWCC permits specific types of signage and they are
concerned about commingling "fish and wildlife signage" with "navigational
signage." The Risk Management Division will review the proposal and provide
comments to staff.
Len Rothman, Canoeist confirmed "navigational marking" requires red and green
US Coast Guard approved markers.
VII. Announcements with follow up
Gary McAlpin noted staff/stakeholders will investigate the issues identified today
(and any others) and report at the next meeting.
Commissioner Hiller noted she spoke to Ryan Moreau and he encouraged anyone
with questions to contact him at 850-410-0656 ext. 17376 or email
ryan.moreau@myfwc.com
VIII. Next Meeting Date/Location
Wednesday, February 23, 2011; Risk Management Training Room, 3311
Tamiami Trail East, Naples
The Discussion ended at 11 :00 A.M.
4