BCC Minutes 10/20/1998 R REGULAR MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, October 20, 1998
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners, in
and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of Zoning
Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as
have been created according to law and having conducted business
herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building
"F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the
following members present:
CHAIRPERSON:
Not Present:
Barbara B. Berry
Pamela S. Mac'Kie
John C. Norris
Timothy L. Hancock
Timothy J. Constantine
ALSO PRESENT:
Robert Fernandez, County Administrator
David Weigel, County Attorney
Item #3
AGENDA, CONSENT AGENDA AND SUMMARY AGENDA - APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED
WITH CHANGES
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Good morning. I'd like to call to order the
Tuesday, October 20th meeting of the Collier County Board of
Commissioners.
This morning we're pleased to have with us the Reverend Dr. Les
Wicker from the Naples United Church of Christ. If you would please
stand for the invocation, remain standing for the pledge of
allegiance.
REVEREND WICKER: In our prayer time today, we want to remember
Commissioner Tim Constantine on the death of his mother, so let us
have a moment of silence.
Oh, mighty God, we give thanks for the gift of living in a land
of democratic process and elected leadership. We pray your divine
guidance for the concerns of this meeting of commissioners of our
county. Give to all sound understanding, farsighted vision and
integrity and judgment.
As we gather to begin important deliberations, help us to
remember the blessings of living in such a wonderful community. Make
us eager to make good decisions for all our people, that the concerns
of all might be to their and the community's best benefit. May we be
so guided by your spirit in this and every time of need. Amen.
(Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Thank you, Dr. Wicker, for being here.
Mr. Fernandez, do we have any changes this morning to our
agenda?
MR. FERNANDEZ: Yes, Madam Chairman. Good morning,
commissioners.
The first is to add item 10(B), which is approval of the county
attorney contract. Request of Commissioner Berry.
The second is to continue to the November the 3rd meeting, item A
-- 8(A) (2), that's 8(A) (2), which is determination of emergency
medical services impact fees to be paid by the Cleveland Clinic. It's
a staff request.
The third is to move item 16(B) (3) to 8(B) (1) . That's from
consent to regular. This is petition for the Hunters Road paving
assessment district MSBU. A staff request.
Also, under staff communications, I'd like to let the board know
that I intend to bring up an update on negotiations with the Golden
Gate Fire and Rescue Control District regarding the Collier County
Fire District service contract.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
Commissioner Mac'Kie, any changes?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No, ma'am.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Commissioner Norris?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: No changes.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Commissioner Hancock?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: No, ma'am.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay, I will be just bringing up an item
probably under -- well, it's a good question where we're going to
bring it up. But it will probably come under Board of County
Commissioners' communications, perhaps, but it's a question I have in
regard to the TD -- some TDC funds. If you can think of a better
place to place that, I just --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We'll be able to take action. I --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I just have a question about it, so what --
MR. FERNANDEZ: Madam Chair?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Let's put it under BCC item C, because --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- ducktailing with that, we have been
holding on advertising for a non-voting position on the TDC, pending
Commissioner Constantine's quote, unquote, plan. I think we need to
move ahead with that, so I'd like to have that direction from the
board also. If we could join those two items --
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: 10(C) you're talking about?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: 10(C), right. That would probably be the
best place.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay, if there are no further changes, do I
have a motion?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Motion to approve the agenda and consent
agenda and summary agenda as amended. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay, we have a motion and a second. Also,
the regular agenda, I guess. That's everything. Okay. We have a
second.
Ail in favor?
Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Motion carries four-zero.
Item #4
MINUTES OF THE SEPTEMBER 28, 1998 VALUE ADJUSTMENT BOARD - APPROVED AS
PRESENTED
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: And I'll make a motion that we approve
the minutes of the September 28th Valve (sic) Adjustment Board.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: We have a motion and a second. All in favor?
Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Motion carries four-zero.
Item #5Al
PROCLAMATION PROCLAIMING THE WEEK OF OCTOBER 23 THROUGH OCTOBER 31,
1998, AS RED RIBBON WEEK - ADOPTED
This morning, our proclamation, Commissioner Hancock.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yes, it's my pleasure first to read a
proclamation regarding Red Ribbon Week, and Bob Troesch -- there you
are, sir, thank you, if you'd come forward -- with Catholic Charities
of Collier County, so I can duly embarrass you and we can get your
face on television. Bob, if you'd turn around and face the audience
and the cameras, I'll read the proclamation.
WHEREAS, alcohol, tobacco and other drug abuse has declined over
the last two decades. Thanks to steadfast prevention and intervention
efforts, it still remains prevalent in every Florida community,
regardless of size and location; and
WHEREAS, with the reduction of prevention resource programs and
community based efforts are asked to do more with less; and
WHEREAS, substance abuse is the most common risk factor impacting
the behavioral and physical health, particularly for our young people;
and
WHEREAS, families face unprecedented pressures and stress imposed
upon them by the overwhelming nature of today's society; and
WHEREAS, use of alcohol, tobacco and other drug abuse remains
prevalent throughout Florida, in spite of prevention and intervention
effort; and
WHEREAS, research and data reflect unquestionably that prevention
works and that our commitment to education, prevention and positive
lifestyles is imperative; and
WHEREAS, the red ribbon represents the nation's united effort to
support prevention and build healthy and safe communities; and
WHEREAS, the 1998 Florida Red Ribbon celebration asks that the
citizens of Florida become motivated and involved in alcohol and other
drug abuse prevention.
NOW THEREFORE, be it proclaimed by the Board of County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, that the week of October 23
through October 31st, 1998 be designated as Be Like Me, Stay Drug
Free, and encourage every Floridian to wear a red ribbon to symbolize
our commitment to establishing healthy and safe communities for our
citizens, especially our children, and to participate in events
throughout the week that support positive lifestyles.
Done and ordered this 20th day of October, 1998, Barbara Berry,
Chairman.
I would like to move acceptance of this proclamation.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: We have a motion and a second. All in favor?
Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Motion carries four-zero.
(Applause.)
Item #5A2
PROCLAMATION PROCLAIMING THE WEEK OF OCTOBER 25-31, 1998, AS 150TH
ANNIVERSARY OF THE WOMEN'S RIGHTS MOVEMENT WEEK - ADOPTED
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: And our next proclamation, Commissioner
Mac'Kie?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm thrilled to get to read a proclamation
today, and I'd like to ask Chris Straton, who's president of the
American Association of University Women, to come forward and accept
this proclamation. It's an awfully exciting one, if you ask me.
WHEREAS, 1998 will mark the 150th anniversary of the Women's
Rights Movement in the United States, a bold and courageous civil
rights movement that began in 1848 in Seneca Falls, New York City, at
the first Women's Rights convention; and
WHEREAS, the Declaration of Sentiments issued by that convention
represents a work as fundamental to our nation's commitment to liberty
and personal freedom as does our Declaration of Independence; and
WHEREAS, the declaration launched a movement that has changed
this nation and the hopes of its women irrevocably; and
WHEREAS, the resulting Women's Rights Movement has had a profound
and undeniable impact on all aspects of American life, and has opened
new opportunities for women in all fields of endeavor; and
WHEREAS, the girls and boys of today, together, have lives far
richer and far fairer as a direct result of the Women's Rights
Movement; and
WHEREAS, the 21st Century will find an ever-increasing need for
both women and men to share in the fundamental responsibilities for
our national life and the benefits that must result from full and
equal participation in society; and
WHEREAS, the promise of full equality and freedom for women in
this nation is yet to be fulfilled.
NOW THEREFORE, be it proclaimed by the Board of County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida that the week of October 25th
through 31st, 1998 be designated as 150th Anniversary of the Women's
Rights Movement week.
Done and ordered this 20th day of October, 1998. Board of County
Commissioners, Collier County, Florida, Barbara B. Berry, Chairman.
I'd like to move acceptance of this proclamation.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: We have a motion and a second. Ail in favor?
Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Motion carries four-zero.
(Applause.)
MS. STP~ATON: Thank you. It's indeed an honor for me to accept
this on behalf of the American Association of University Women, and
also all the men and women who have benefitted as a result of the
Women's Rights Movement.
You know, you may not know that AAUW was founded in 1881 on the
idea that education was the key to equity. And in 1885 we released our
first study which refuted the theory that higher education was harmful
to women's health.
Now, we're still involved in studies, we're still involved in
education, and we're still involved in issues of equity. And we also
have a very active voters education campaign.
And it's particularly gratifying for me to accept this
proclamation just two weeks before the electorate of the State of
Florida has an opportunity to go to the polls and decide whether or
not Florida's constitution should remove gender specific language, and
whether the rights and privileges of our Florida constitution should
clarify that it's extended to males and females alike.
Now, regardless of how people may vote on that particular issue
or any of the issues that are on the November 3rd ballot, on behalf of
AAUW's voter education campaign, we urge everyone to get informed and
then vote based on your information.
And for the women out there, 150 years ago the most contentious
issue at the Women's Right convention was whether or not there should
be an attempt to give the women the right to vote. Now we have that
right, and I urge women to use that right.
And joining me today is Pat Clark, who's the president of the
Collier County Audubon -- Collier County League of Women Voters, and
Jean Brooker, who's a past president of AAUW. And we thank you and we
do urge everyone to vote on November 3rd. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The amendment she referred to is amendment
nine, and on my personal behalf, I urge you to vote yes on amendment
nine.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: And I guess if this hadn't happened a few
hundred years ago, we probably wouldn't be sitting here today.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We wouldn't be here.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Does that mean you're thankful, or --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh, yeah. Very, very, very.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: We can debate that at another time.
Item #5A3
PROCLAMATION PROCLAIMING OCTOBER 20, 1998, AS RSVP OF COLLIER COUNTY
RECOGNITION DAY - ADOPTED
And now it's my pleasure to read our last proclamation today. If
I could have Betty Stuver come up, please. This is the RSVP of
Collier County Recognition Day. Good morning, Betty.
WHEREAS, the Retired and Senior Volunteer Program of Collier
County received a grant from the Corporation for National Service with
local sponsorship provided by the Board of County Commissioners of
Collier County to administer a program that provides the senior
citizens of Collier County the opportunity to put their skills and
life experience to work for our communities; and
WHEREAS, RSVP of Collier County has 950 volunteers that donate
over 100,000 hours of service each year to various agencies in Collier
County; and
WHEREAS, the Retired and Senior Volunteer Program received the
1998 J.C. Penney Golden Rule Award for exceptional volunteer service
to our community; and
WHEREAS the Retired and Senior Volunteer Program was honored as
one of the 1998 Outstanding Partners in Education by the Collier
County Education Foundation; and
WHEREAS, the Retired and Senior Volunteer Program of Collier
County was chosen as the RSVP Project of the Year by the Corporation
for National Service, and will be the subject of a nationally produced
video that will be shown to members of congress, corporate sponsors
and serve as the recruitment tool for the 800 Retired and Senior
Volunteer Programs throughout the United States; and
WHEREAS, it is fitting and proper to bring special recognition to
this outstanding group of volunteers during October, which is National
RSVP month.
NOW THEREFORE, be it proclaimed by the Board of County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, that October 20th be
designated as RSVP of Collier County Recognition Day.
Done and ordered this 20th day of October, 1998, Board of County
Commissioners, Collier County, Florida, Barbara B. Berry, Chairman.
It's my pleasure to move this proclamation.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: We have a motion and a second.
Ail in favor?
Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Motion carries four-zero.
(Applause.)
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Jennifer?
MS. EDWARDS: We also have a brief video that we'd like to run at
this time.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
MS. EDWARDS: Please watch the monitors.
(Whereupon a video was played at this time.)
(Applause.)
MS. EDWARDS: My name is Jennifer Edwards, I'm Human Resources
director. I'm going to ask Betty to come forward again. What you
just saw is one of the programs that Betty has developed.
We have been the proud sponsors of this program for only two
years. And during those two years, Betty has accomplished everything
that has been read in the proclamation today. She's increased the
volunteer base from 400 to over 900 volunteers.
So in recognition of that, I have a plaque for Betty, and the
plaque reads, in recognition of your enthusiastic leadership and
devotion to RSVP and the individual volunteers. Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
MS. STUVER: This is a great honor, and I thank you very much.
It's been a wonderful two years having Collier County as the sponsor
of this group. And that has brought tremendous exposure, tremendous
feelings from everybody in this county that want to do more for our
kids and for our older people and for every program we do. And I
can't do it without those 950 volunteers, so this is for them, too.
Thank you very, very much.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Betty, I know that you have two of the
volunteers --
MS. STUVER: I have three, actually.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: You have three of them? Okay, two of them I
recognized and I saw them recently on regular cable TV being
interviewed. If you would introduce them, I certainly would
appreciate it, and I think the folks at home need to know who they
are.
MS. STUVER: Otto and Dale Blauert.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: If they would stand and face -- I think the
cameras will pick you up.
(Applause.)
MS. STUVER: And also, Eda McCarthy. All of these folks work
within the school system.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Thank you very much.
And our thanks certainly go to the volunteers that are here with
us today, and certainly those that are at home, or who are probably
out volunteering in some capacity at this point in time. So our
thanks certainly is extended to all those people, and I know certainly
from the school point of view they couldn't do some of the things they
do without your help. And it is just -- it is so great that you
choose to go out and share your experience with the kids in the
classroom. I thank you so much for doing that.
Well, that's the fun that we had, and the good part of this whole
thing.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Now the work part.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Now we have to get down and do the work of
Collier County.
I do have one other thing that I need to do. Unfortunately, I
don't have the check in front of me, but I held a very high number
check today that our tax collector presented to us in the amount of
over two million dollars that he has refunded to Collier County. I
held it briefly and then we marched it right over to the clerk's
office to get it deposited.
But I certainly want to thank Guy Carlton for presenting that
check to Collier County. It came in on Friday. And as I said, it's
two -- I think it was 2.8 million dollars or something like that. So
our thanks are extended to him.
Item #8Al
CARNIVAL PERMIT 98-6, OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE CATHOLIC CHURCH, REQUESTING
A PERMIT TO CONDUCT A CARNIVAL FROM NOVEMBER 25 THROUGH NOVEMBER 29,
1998, ON THE CHURCH GROUNDS LOCATED AT 219 SOUTH 9TH STREET IN
IMMOKALEE - APPROVED
Okay, moving on then to item 8(A) (1), petition number C-98-6,
the --
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Second.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay, this is for a carnival to be conducted
November 25th through the 29th over in Immokalee, Our Lady of
Guadalupe Catholic Church.
We have a motion and a second. Ail in favor?
Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Motion carries four-zero.
Item ~8A2 Continued to 11/3/98
Item #8B1
PETITION FOR THE HUNTERS ROAD PAVING ASSESSMENT DISTRICT MUNICIPAL
SERVICE BENEFIT UNIT (MSBU) IN SECTION 6, TOWNSHIP 49 SOUTH, RANGE 26
EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA - STAFF TO FORWARD FEASIBILITY STUDY BUT
NOT TO RECORD EASEMENTS UNTIL MSBU OR MSTU IS FORMED
Next item is item 8(B), which was 16(B) (3) moved off of the
consent agenda for the Hunters Road paving assessment district.
MR. MULLER: Good morning, commissioners. For the record, my
name is Ross Muller, and I'm an engineer with your transportation
department.
Item 8(B) 1), formally 16(B) (3), is for the consideration of a
petition for a municipal service benefit unit for the paving of
Hunters Road.
The locatzon of Hunters Road is between Livingston Road and 1-75,
south of Daniels Road.
We received a petition and verified that there's 50 percent plus
one of the property owners on the petition. The next step would be to
perform a feasibility report, and our public works engineering
department has estimated the cost of that to be $11,000.
As far as right-of-way acquisition, we -- there's 41 parcels and
we've received 23 conveyances, leaving 18 outstanding.
Two years ago, in 1996, when this came before you before, there
were 41 parcels with 37 conveyances, four of them were outstanding.
So we've lost a few easements. Either through sales or property owners
requesting their easements be returned, 14 conveyances no longer
exist. This is a concern for the petitioners who have spent time,
money and effort to acquire the easements.
In an effort not to lose any more easements, the petitioners are
requesting that the Board of County Commissioners record the ones that
we have received. And I -- Dr. Kriston Kent is here to speak in favor
of this.
The county attorney's office has concerns about recording the
easement, as that may be considered acceptance, and the board may
conceivably have some liability, not to pave the road, but for the
road as it exists today. And there may also be multiple condemnations
required.
The recommendation of staff is to accept the petition, direct
staff to prepare the feasibility report, direct staff to acquire the
remaining easements, approve any budget amendments, and give staff
direction on recording the conveyances that we have in hand.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay. And what action are you looking for?
MR. MULLER: To accept the petition and direct staff to prepare
the feasibility report, and give us some direction of what you want --
record the conveyances that we have, or wait until we create a
district or initiate a district, or whatever the pleasure of the
board.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Seems to me the conveyances should be
recorded at the time the district is physically created and not
beforehand. I don't know that we should jump ahead and do that now.
If that is the only question, then -- do we have speakers on this?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Do we have any --
MR. FERNANDEZ: Just Mr. Kriston Kent.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I'd like to get advice from the county
attorney, because I don't really understand how this comes to be our
decision, frankly, instead of just a staff recommendation.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Right.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd like to get your recommendation.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay, let's have our speaker, and then we'll
go ahead and talk to our attorney.
MR. KENT: Thank you very much. Dr. Kriston Kent.
I have kind of been appointed by the road to go out and do what I
could to get the road paved. I met about three years ago with Mr.
Archibald, as well as with our commissioner, Mr. Constantine, as well
as us having several homeowners' meetings to determine the direction
we should take, and they told us that we could save quite a bit of the
county's money and our own money by obtaining these easement deeds.
I therefore took it upon ourselves and spent countless hours and
lots of money talking to Switzerland, for one of the owners, and
Arizona and Pennsylvania, spending several hours sitting in people's
homes around town that own lots there, explaining to them what was
going on, so they would understand the process.
We got within -- as we were told by Mr. Muller, within four, 37
of the 41. Two of those four actually live on Livingston Road, which
is paved, and desired not to be assessed since they're not gaining
anything by getting a second paved road that's not where their
driveway is.
Those people would not -- it was subsequently decided, would
probably not be in the taxing district. We would exclude them from the
taxing district. So really, we only need two -- only needed two at
that time. And one was selling their property and was hoping the next
people would sign it.
Unfortunately I've been quite disappointed that all that time and
money and effort that I've put into it has gone to waste in that
they've sold so many of the lots since then. And, in fact, those
people who have bought the lots are on the petition that we now have,
and so they're certainly in favor of it and certainly were -- bought
that based on the fact they thought the road would soon be paved.
So I'm just very disappointed, I guess, that we've lost so much
of our money and time that we've spent when we were directed by our
commissioner and our county road man to go out and get those for the
county. And that would be the step they would want us to do prior to
us doing something more.
And so I was hoping that we might be able to go ahead and record
the ones that we have so that all the time and money that we put
forward at their direction wouldn't be lost completely.
So we were just hopefully -- number one, hoping that we would --
you guys would start the feasibility study for us, and number two,
that we could record the ones that we have so that we don't lose
further. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Thank you very much.
Mr. Weigel, what's our advice here?
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you. It was our office request to make this a
discussion item. Really, the issue of attention is the fact that an
MSBU, or MSTU -- I think in this case we're talking MSBU -- has not
been created yet. Much activity has occurred prior to its creation,
but we would just admonish or -- perhaps that's too strong a word, but
just --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Wait 'til we do something wrong to
admonish us. You could just warn us at this point. MR. WEIGEL: Yeah.
-- to put a little sign out there that could be a potential for
liability or at least being entangled in the defense of any road
issues that would occur if the county were to formally accept the
deeds for recording at the present time.
Right now we are a holder of them, kind of a trustee or bailee of
these things, but we don't have the formal link to the road easements;
that could make it a little problematical if something comes up.
I know that road. I also want to state for the record that I
have in-laws who live on that road. I have no connection with them
other than by relation, nice people that they are.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Is that a good connection, Dave?
MR. WEIGEL: It's a good connection.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. WEIGEL: But there is no remunerative or other interest that
I have in this road. In fact, if there were, the argument would be
that I wouldn't be speaking up at this time.
But the road is one that I think the county can go forward with
the feasibility report and the other elements, but I think the gentle
advice is not to record at this time, because if we do go forward and
record, I do want the board to also -- as Mr. Muller indicated, we may
have -- if we have abstentions from conveyance, to make the road come
into fruition may require condemnation actions and multiple
condemnation actions, which will be more expensive for the county or
the people through assessment unit that would be created later.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I remember about three years ago the
county went in and we got quote, unquote, voluntary easements along
the roadway. And then it came time to actually do the roadway, and we
were going to have to go through condemnation, and the cost went up,
and then we were kind of stuck with the situation of what do we do
with the right-of-way that was granted to us for a roadway that we're
now not going to build. It was --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Like Santa Barbara?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I don't know if it was Santa Barbara.
This was north --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Plan A.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- of Immokalee in the Willoughby Acres
area. There was an easement up there.
MR. MULLER: Lakeland Avenue.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Thank you.
So I think -- Dr. Kent, I understand -- I have a real good
feeling of how much work you've put into this, and I understand you
have a little side business that you actually have a living going, so
I appreciate all the time that you've spent on this.
25 out of 40 signatures I think is enough that if we put a little
push on the feasibility study so that we kind of move this to the top
of the heap, we're not going to lose the work that you've done in
getting to that feasibility study to make sure the numbers match up to
what people have signed onto. And I think that is something we need
to do.
So I don't think there's as much an urgency to accept those
today, with the possible legal ramifications of doing so when the
numbers are significant enough that -- how long do we expect the
feasibility study to take, Mr. Muller?
MR. MULLER: I checked with public works engineering before I
came up this morning, and I thought it could be done in 90 days to six
months.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Ninety days being better than six months.
I would be much more comfortable seeing those numbers -- and
again, your work is not going to be wasted, Mr. Kent. It's before us
today. There has to be a lot of sales that go on between -- in the
next 90 days for it to invalidate what you've presented to us and what
you've worked so hard to accomplish.
So I'm comfortable with giving staff direction to move ahead with
the feasibility study and to withhold recording of the easements until
such time as we know we will be able to form an MSTU as a proper
vehicle to accept them.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Is that a motion?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: That is a motion.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: We have a motion and a second to direct staff
to move ahead with the feasibility study. And -- Mr. Weigel?
MR, WEIGEL: Okay, one point for clarification on the motion.
Mr. Hancock said MSTU. I think previous discussion apparently had
MSBU. Do you want to say MSTU or MSBU to keep the flexibility there?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: On the either MSTU or MSBU assessment
district, whichever is deemed appropriate.
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay, we have a motion and a second. If
there's no further discussion, all in favor?
Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Motion carries four-zero. Direction has been
given.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Dr. Kent can actually go back to work now.
Item #gA
FURTHER PROCEEDINGS IN THE CASE OF STIRNS V. COLLIRE COUNTY, CASE NO.
98-2288-CA, WHEREIN STIRNS CHALLENGES THE COUNTY'S DENIAL OF A SOCIAL
CLUB CONDITIONAL USE IN A RURAL AGRICULTURAL ZONED DISTRICT, AS ORDERED
BY JUDGE TED BROUSSEAU IN THE ABOVE-STYLED CAUSE PURSUANT TO RULE
9.600(B), FLORIDA RULES OF APPELLATE PROCEDURE - PROCEEDING HELD AND
COUNTY ATTORNEY TO RESPOND
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay, moving on then to item 9(A), further
proceedings in the case of Stirns versus Collier County.
MS. STUDENT: Good morning, commissioners, Marjorie Student,
assistant county attorney for the record. And these are further
proceedings pursuant to Florida rule of appellate procedure 9.600(B) .
Just by way of brief background, this board, sitting as the Board
of Zoning Appeals, on May 26th heard a petition for a social club
clothing optional conditional use. That petition was denied by
unanimous vote.
Subsequently, Mr. Stirns petitioned the circuit court for a writ
of certiorari, the court issued its summons in certiorari, and the
county responded to that summons. And Mr. Siesky filed a reply to our
response.
In the interim, Mr. Siesky petitioned the court under this
appellate rule for further proceedings. And the parameters of the
proceedings are outlined in an order signed by Judge Ted Brousseau
that's been made a part of the packet.
And if Mr. Siesky wishes to read those parameters into the
record, he's free to do so.
I also wish to state for the record that Commissioner Timothy
Constantine is not present today as a member of the Board of Zoning
Appeals, because there has been a death in his family. And with that, Mr. Siesky?
MR. SIESKY: Thank you, Ms. Student. Jim Siesky, representing
the Stirns. And thank you for the background. I'm sure I would have
had to say that anyway.
I won't bother reading the order into the record, as long as the
board has read it and is familiar with it.
And for the record, I am Jim Siesky. I guess I did say that.
After the May 26th meeting where the conditional use was
rejected, Mr. Stirns met with the media and it was reported in the
newspaper that he would be seeking a similar use in a C-5 district,
which zs where it was currently permitted. And that fact was made
known to the commission at the May 26th meeting where Commissioner
Mac'Kie questioned Mr. Milk and got that response.
I became aware that the County Commission had requested the
county attorney to explore the exclusion of clothing optional clubs
even in the C-5 district without a conditional use by an article that
was in the Naples Daily News.
And subsequently, I became aware that at its June 2nd meeting,
1998, Commissioner Norris stated, "I would just like to ask the board
if anyone besides me has any interest in making nudist type operations
a conditional use in any zoning district."
And the result of that discussion was that Mr. Weigel was
directed to come back with some kind of proposal or some thoughts on
this issue.
And my purpose in being here today is to first ask that the board
be placed under oath so that they can respond to my questions.
(The Board of County Commissioners were duly sworn.)
MR. SIESKY: And I would like to start with Commissioner Norris,
since it is he who made this request to the board.
Commissioner Norris, is it true that your action -- or your
request to the board to consider a conditional use for clothing
optional in all areas of Collier County was the result of Mr. Stirns'
stated purpose to use the C-5 district for a clothing optional resort?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, that certainly was an opportune
moment to bring it up. The reasoning to go to a conditional use is
that it forces a public hearing.
MR. SIESKY: And I direct most of these questions to you,
Commissioner Norris, for now.
Is it your intention to force other social clubs to public
hearings then, if they wish to have a conditional use, or have any use
in a C-5 district?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: The direction given to the county attorney
specifically mentioned clothing optional clubs.
MR. SIESKY: I understand that. But my question to you is, is it
your purpose to have other social clubs be subject to these same
rules?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Not at this time, no.
MR. $IESKY: Then could you tell me then why you are singling out
the clothing optional clubs?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I certainly will. The same reason that we
singled out, for example -- if that is the phraseology that you choose
to use -- homeless shelters, for example. Because there are certain
uses that can be construed as sometimes controversial, depending on
location and proximity to certain neighborhoods and, therefore, it's
in the public's interest to have a public hearing before any of these
uses are allowed anywhere in the county.
MR. SIESKY: Do you have a list of those uses which you consider
to be controversial?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I'm not in charge of making that list, sir.
MR. SIESKY: Do you know if the county has such a list?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: The Land Development Code has all
conditional uses listed within it.
MR. SIESKY: Commissioner Norris, it's now four months after your
request, and the commission's request. Has Mr. Weigel or any of his
staff come back to you with a proposal or some thoughts on the issue?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Not yet.
MR. SIESKY: Have you had any occasion to discuss this issue with
anyone since June 2nd?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Anyone on the staff?
MR. SIESKY: With anyone.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: With anyone? Probably. Not to my
recollection, but probably so.
MR. SIESKY: I would ask that same question to the other board
members, have you had occasion to discuss this matter with anyone
since June 2nd?
Commissioner Mac'Kie?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Commissioner Mac'Kie. I don't recall
having any discussion with anybody about it, no.
MR. $IESKY: Commissioner Berry?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I don't recall having any discussions. There
may have been some comments that may have been made, but I don't
recall having any pertinent discussion.
MR. SIESKY: Do you recall the comments?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Not offhand, other than --
MR. SIESKY: Do you know who made them?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- and other than what people have said
regarding what they had read in the newspaper kind of thing. That was
all.
MR. SIESKY: Commissioner Hancock?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Likewise, I don't recall having any
specific conversations about this matter.
MR. SIESKY: Commissioner Norris, if the -- if the county
attorney comes back to you and says that making a conditional use
requirement for clothing optional resorts or clubs is permissible
throughout the county and all zoning districts, would it be your
intention to adopt that stance?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, Mr. Siesky, it's hard for me to sit
here today without seeing any material presented to me and make that
determination.
Obviously, I would favor the consideration of that. But as to
whether I will finally vote yes or no would have to be determined at
the meeting when the material is presented.
MR. $IESKY: Commissioner Mac'Kie, would you have the same
response?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Absolutely.
MR. SIESKY: Commissioner Berry?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Same response.
MR. SIESKY: Commissioner Hancock, I will not ask that question
of you.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Thank you.
MR. SIESKY: Commissioner Norris, what investigation have you
performed regarding clothing optional clubs?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Investigation? Would you clarify that for
me, please?
MR. SIESKY: Well, you've stated that there is a controversial
use. What about it makes it controversial?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, it could be controversial, I believe
I said, depending on location. For example, if one were to go in next
door to an elementary school, that could certainly be considered
controversial. If it went into the middle of a single-family
residential neighborhood, that could be considered controversial. I
think those people have the expectation that they should be able to
have a public hearing in an instance such as that.
MR. SIESKY: You sought to exclude it, though -- to consider the
exclusion of it from a C-5 area, which I understand to be, from the
minutes --
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: No, Mr. Siesky, that's not correct. A
conditional use does not exclude one from anywhere, it just forces a
public hearing, more than anything else.
MR. SIESKY: Well, excuse me, excluded as a matter of right in
the C-5 district, which I understood to be typically along major
arterials, collector roadways, and a near industrial zoning category.
What do you think would be controversial about placing it in a
near industrial zoning area?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, that's very speculative. It would
depend on the specific location. And that is precisely the reason for
going to a conditional use is so that each case can be looked at
individually on its own specifics.
MR. SIESKY: Have you ever attended a clothing optional facility?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: No, sir.
MR. SIESKY: Do you know anyone who has?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes, sir.
MR. SIESKY: Who do you know?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Stirns.
MR. SIESKY: Other than Mr. Stirns, do you know anyone?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes, I do.
MR. SIESKY: Who would that be?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I don't know that I would be at liberty to
tell you that. That may be a private matter.
MR. SIESKY: Would it be a friend of yours?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes.
MR. SIESKY: Somebody you respect?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Sure.
MR. SIESKY: Do you know anything negative about clothing
optional resorts and their uses? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes.
MR. SIESKY: What do you know?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, I know that it could be construed as
negative because some people may not consider that to be an
appropriate lifestyle, and that would be a negative.
MR. SIESKY: Are you aware that there are homosexuals in this
community?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Sure.
MR. SIESKY: Are you aware that some people don't consider that
to be an appropriate lifestyle?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Of course.
MR. SIESKY: Do you zone those people out of this community?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Pardon me?
MR. SIESKY: Do you zone those people out of this community?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Once again, Mr. Siesky, I don't think we're
zoning anyone out of anything. We're just --
MR. SIESKY: You'd require them to have a public hearing to live
here?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I don't believe you're making a fair
analogy here, Mr. Siesky.
MS. STUDENT: I object to the line of questioning about sexual
orientation. That has nothing to do with land use issues or clothing
optional clubs, and I object for the record to that line of
questioning.
MR. SIESKY: Have you discussed this matter with your
constituents?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: As I said before, I don't recall any
specific conversations.
MR. SIESKY: Commissioner Mac'Kie, are you aware of any negative
information regarding clothing optional resorts? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No.
MR. SIESKY: Commissioner Berry, are you aware of any negative
information?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: (Shakes head negatively.)
MR. SIESKY: Is that a no?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: That's a no.
MR. SIESKY: I'm sorry, we have to --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I understand --
MR. SIESKY: -- put that on the record.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- that, they don't get head nodding. I
appreciate that.
MR. SIESKY: Commissioner Hancock?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I think the public hearing we had showed
that there is an issue of perception with the public out there, and
that would be the one negative that I have become aware of. MR. SIESKY: Could you explain what you mean?
COMMISSIONER HAiqCOCK: I think it's in the record. I think the
individuals who live in that neighborhood expressed concern about how
their children's friends' parents had already become aware that their
neighborhood may receive this type of use, and had made comments.
Again, it's clearly in the record as their comments, not mine.
But those statements, I think, are probably the only real sign of
negativity that I am aware of, and that is the perception of the
individuals that are affected by it.
MR. SIESKY: And you would agree, would you not, that that was a
speculation, since none of those people had experienced a clothing
optional group in their neighborhood?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I don't think you have to work in an
asphalt plant to know you don't really want one next to your house.
So I'm not so sure it's as speculative as you state, Mr. Siesky.
MR. SIESKY: Well, I think you're probably right about an asphalt
plant, but it appears here that no one really knows about a clothing
optional resort; wouldn't you agree?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: No, sir.
MR. SIESKY: You don't agree?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I don't think you can make a statement
about what the four individuals up here do or do not know.
MR. SIESKY: Well, I've asked all of them and I've heard none of
them knows anything about one. Do you know something about a clothing
optional resort?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I have never attended one, no, sir.
MR. SIESKY: Have you ever lived near one?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: No, sir.
MR. SIESKY: Have you ever talked about any -- or talked with
anyone who's lived near one?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: No, sir.
MR. SIESKY: Thank you, have I no further questions of the board.
MS. STUDENT: I have a couple of questions for the board.
We've discussed public hearings, and I'll ask each -- I'll ask
the question once, and then I'll ask each member of the board.
Isn't it generally understood and understood by the Board of
Zoning Appeals individually and collectively that the purpose of a
public hearing for conditional uses are to -- is to evaluate that
particular use in light of criteria in the land code, to wit,
consistency with the comp plan, traffic impacts, noise, odor, glare
impacts and compatibility with adjacent properties --
MR. SIESKY: I object. Excuse me, finish your question.
MS. STUDENT: Commissioner Mac'Kie?
MR. SIESKY: I object to the question based upon its being beyond
the purview of the examination conducted and outside the purview of
the order.
MS. STUDENT: Well, we think it is connected to the purview,
because in asking the commissioners about the reasons --
MR. SIESKY: My objection is noted. Go ahead and have the
answer.
MS. STUDENT: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Clearly, conditional uses are judged by
the criteria that are present in the code for their evaluation.
MS. STUDENT: Commissioner Norris?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I agree.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: And I --
MS. STUDENT: Commissioner Berry?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- would agree with the other commissioners'
statements.
MS. STUDENT: Commissioner Hancock?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Ms. Student, I agree with your statement,
yes.
MS. STUDENT: Okay. And one other question: Has Southern
Exposure or any other clothing optional facility ever been before this
Board of Zoning Appeals Zoning Appeals for a conditional use approval,
or any other zoning petition, for that matter, relating to the parcel
of land that was the subject of the May 26th hearing, or any other
parcel of land? Commission --
MR. SIESKY: I object to the question as being beyond the purview
of this order, irrelevant to this matter, since Southern Exposure is
not a party to this case.
MS. STUDENT: Oh, Mr. Stirns, I beg your pardon. Mr. Stirns is
what I meant to say. I thought that he had some connection with
Southern Exposure, from my review of the record. But I believe it is
within -- just for the record, I need to state this.
I believe it is within the purview, because Mr. Siesky is trying
to prove some kind of bias, and you do that by looking at surrounding
circumstances and how similarly situated persons have been treated.
Our case law tells us that.
So I'm trying to determine factually from this board if anyone
situated like Mr. Stirns or Mr. Stirns has ever been before it before.
Commissioner Mac'Kie?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The only -- I'm not -- I'm not sure of the
identity of the party who made the application that -- whether that
was Southern Exposure or some other company, but the only clothing
optional case that I've ever reviewed in my four years on the board
was the one involving Mr. Stirns.
MS. STUDENT: And Commissioner Norris?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's correct, I believe.
MS. STUDENT: Commissioner --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: The only case --
MS. STUDENT: -- Berry?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- I know about is the Stirns case, since
I've been on the commission.
MS. STUDENT: Thank you.
Commissioner Hancock?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yes, Mr. Stirns in this particular matter
is the only one in a clothing optional manner I've reviewed in my four
years on the board.
MS. STUDENT: Thank you very much, commissioners.
MR. SIESKY: I have one more question for each board member.
Did -- prior to the meeting today, did you discuss the subject
matter that was to come before you today with either Mr. Weigel or
Marjorie Student?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I had --
MR. SIESKY: Commissioner Mac'Kie?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you, I had a meeting with Ms.
Student.
MR. SIESKY: Commissioner Norris?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: As did I.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I had a meeting with Ms. Student.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I met with Ms. Student for -- to
understand the explanation of why this particular proceeding was going
to occur today, yes.
MR. SIESKY: Did you discuss your testimony today? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: No.
MR. SIESKY: Commissioner Berry?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: No, sir.
MR. SIESKY: Commissioner Norris?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: No.
MR. SIESKY: Commissioner Mac'Kie?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No.
MR. SIESKY: Thank you very much.
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you, commissioners.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's a little history-making moment.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: It's kind of one of those situations you're
not sure at this point what to say other than I would like to ask Mr.
Weigel, what happens next? If I might do that.
MR. WEIGEL: Okay. Well, the procedure just entailed was
obviously pursuant to the order of Judge Brousseau in the proceeding
in court following the termination of the board for land use in this
matter earlier.
And county attorney office, on behalf of the board members, as
the BZA, will be responding to the questions that were asked today by
Mr. Siesky on behalf of his client. And the argument is actually
purely in front of Judge Brousseau at this point forward.
We don't expect a remand to you for anything of this nature again
until -- there might be a determination of the court potentially that
might bring it back before you, but we just don't know at this point
in time.
But this is rather unique, it's different, never heretofore
requested on behalf of an appealing party. And just by virtue of the
fact that the judge entered an order to allow this opportunity to go
forward in no way is to be taken at this juncture as an indication or
predisposition of the Judge as to the matter that's been before it up
to this point.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Thank you.
Item #10A
RESOLUTION 98-427, APPOINTING DAVID CORREA TO THE HISPANIC AFFAIRS
ADVISORY BOARD - ADOPTED
Ail right then, moving on to the next item, item 10(A),
appointment of member to the Hispanic Affairs Advisory Board.
one member --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: We have a motion to --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY:
Motion and a second.
All in favor?
Opposed?
We have
approve the appointment of David Correa.
(No response.)
CHAIRPERSON BERRY:
Motion carries four-zero.
Item #10B
COUNTY ATTORNEY'S CONTRACT - APPROVED WITH CHANGES
The next item on the agenda is the county attorney's contract.
This is most difficult when one starts talking about contracts
and it involves people and money and service and what have you. I
think this is a very difficult area to get into. Not an area that I
necessarily like to do, but it's one of those things that goes with
the job.
Before you -- you should have a hand-out in front of you that has
a very long sheet which is kind of like a spreadsheet which you can
look at in terms of county attorneys' salaries in other counties in
the State of Florida. And there's all sorts of little notes attached
to this, different benefits and deferred comp. and all those kinds of
things that are placed in their contracts. This is just as a matter of
reference for your own benefit to take a look at.
If you'll go back to the very first page that you have. Mr.
Weigel and I discussed this particular area. We had to have some
basis, and I felt that I needed something which was supportive of a
position that I took in terms of justification for salary.
We come up basically with what the county has kind of done this
year, more or less inaugurated the pay for performance and the pay
plan maintenance, which we issued and the county administrator
discussed in terms of other administrative people in our county.
We came up from the base salary of Mr. Weigel, which is currently
at 86,993.92 -- this is all public information -- and taking those
two, the pay for performance at 3.6 percent and the pay plan
maintenance of eight percent, brought him up to a total salary then of
97,085.21. And then the total -- all of the increase altogether, the
total dollars, were 10,091.29.
The question that I have that I think the board needs to rule on
is the deferred comp. at three percent or four percent. And you have
those numbers in front of you. And also, Mr. Weigel is eligible to go
into the senior management class in the retirement. We have, I
believe, eight people currently in that class. We can have up to 20
something -- or 16 or 24, is it?
MR. FERNANDEZ: Madam Chairman, the number was 11, but was
recently amended by the statute, and --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: It's been increased.
MR. FERNANDEZ: -- I think it's been doubled.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: It's been -- right. And Ms. Edwards can talk
perhaps a little bit more about that.
MS. EDWARDS: Jennifer Edwards, human resources director.
We are eligible for one per 1,000, so we have -- we may have 13
plus one.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
MS. EDWARDS: And we have about eight right now, so we can
accommodate him.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay. Commissioner Mac'Kie?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just a couple of questions. I assume the
division heads and the county administrator are currently in the
senior management class?
MR. FERNANDEZ: That's correct. The division heads were added
with the budget you just adopted.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I certainly think that the county
attorney belongs in that senior management class, so I'll just go
ahead and tell you that right up front.
And the only other question I have is the 3.6 pay for
performance, that was the sort of across the board -- it wasn't an
across the board.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: No.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Help me with that. What was it?
MR. FERNANDEZ: That's based upon the criteria we used for all
other employees, based upon their last evaluation and determined by
the amount of funds available for each department. Decisions were
made on how much should be granted for each category of evaluation.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And so my question is, 3.6 percent was at
what category of evaluation?
MR. FERNANDEZ: Superior.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It was superior.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Superior.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And the pay plan maintenance, the eight
percent, I had not understood that the county attorney's office was
included in that --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: They were not.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: They were not. It was to get --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: In the survey is my question.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I don't believe they were included in the
survey. They did not participate in that survey, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Then I'm not sure how that eight percent
comes into play.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Because it was a number to get to. I wanted
to see what was -- what we did in the county, okay? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Gotcha.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: And that's why I used that number. Because
other than just arbitrarily grabbing a number out of the air, whether
it's five percent, six percent, it gave me a basis of something that I
could start looking at some terms of dollars.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I frankly thought it -- you know, like
you said, this is an uncomfortable conversation, but I frankly thought
it looked like a high raise, until I looked at the survey information
that you did gather, and I certainly think that our county attorney
ought to be compensated in the range of surrounding -- I mean, Lee
County --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: One of the things that we did not --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Charlotte.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- we did not go into, we had discussed a car
allowance. We did not go there. Basically I talked to Mr. Weigel, we
said, you know, if you travel on behalf of the county to any place or
whatever, then certainly put in for compensation for that. So we
stayed away from the car allowance part of it. But as you'll see with
that survey, many of the counties do have some kind of an allowance in
there. We have not gone there.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'll tell you what my support will be --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- for the 3.6 and the eight percent.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Because I see how that was substantiated
by the survey that you did. As I said, I do think he belongs in the
senior management class for retirement. The deferred comp. issue,
three to four, I need more information about who gets deferred comp.
at three and who gets it at four.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: He's currently at three percent.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And on our staff --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I believe. Is that --
MR. WEIGEL: I'm currently at two percent.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: You're at two percent. I'm sorry, two
percent.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: On our staff, what level of employee has
deferred comp. at three versus four? Give me a benchmark I guess is my
question.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Madam Chair, I'm at four, and I believe we just
added the division administrators at four; is that correct?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: So that gives you some --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So he belongs in that category, as far as
I'm concerned. If they're all there.
MR. OCHS: For the record, Leo Ochs, support services
administrator.
Only your contract employees right now are eligible to receive
any deferred compensation that's provided by the employer. As part of
your budget process, we had earmarked some money, it will be coming to
the board later this year, with a fringe benefit modification for your
division administrator level staff positions and your assistant county
administrator. But you'll see the specifics on that probably in
November.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Could that be tied -- I mean, I'd like to
have Mr. Weigel at the same level as other division administrators.
MR. OCHS: The only other comparable contract position would be
your county administrator --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No, I'm clear on that --
MR. OCHS: -- that has deferred comp.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- but I mean, when you come back with
this fringe benefit --
MR. FERNANDEZ: What's the dollar amount that we put in the
budget.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Are you proposing three percent, four
percent, two percent? What was in the budget?
MR. OCHS: What was in the budget was a recommendation that the
board match an individual's personal contribution to their deferred
compensation plan up to a maximum of $1,500 per year, so that's
different than --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Than this.
MR. OCHS: -- than the percentage payment made by the employer
right now on behalf of your contract employee, which would --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And the difference here --
MR. OCHS: -- be your.county --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- ms about $1,000 a year.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Let me tell you, if you look at the deferred
comp. section, we had it figured at three and at four. If you were to
take the 97,085.21 and include it in there, you'll see then the base
salary, the two numbers are at the end, okay, and that's what we did
at both of those percentage levels.
So that's -- I just wanted you to see exactly -- if you were to
include it in that 97,085.21, that's how it could be figured.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd personally be comfortable at the three
percent, since that's a one percent increase over current, and since
that would still in all likelihood be higher than -- well, yeah, it
would be double what other division heads will be entitled to if we
adopt the $1,500 matching request that we're apparently going to get
later in the year. So --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- that's my position.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay. Commissioner Hancock?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: What troubles me about what's been said so
far is our county attorney is not a division head.
We have three contract employees. We as a board assess their
value individually, irrespective of what our division heads do. Their
positions are more volatile, are more public, are more tenuous than
division heads. Therefore, recognizing that and looking at the average
life span or time in position of a county administrator, and to some
degree a county attorney, I think that's why you see deferred
compensation higher. I think that's why you see senior management
class issues being raised, because there are going to be times in
their careers when they are asked to move on with -- you know, against
their will, or --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The contract people are more likely to
have that happen?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Yes. If you look state-wide, particularly
at county administrator positions.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Longevity in the position is usually not
there.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Because unfortunately what happens is if
two years from now three people on this board are replaced, the most
popular thing to do in government is to fire everyone that used to be
there to make yourself look good.
I think Mr. Fernandez saw a similar situation in Alachua County
where an entire board was almost replaced and if you don't like and
you've been complaining about everything that's going on, the first
thing you do is you fire the highest person. That's a reality of
working for political bodies.
So we can compare to division heads as a baseline, but quite
honestly, Mr. Weigel, in his position, is an individual. I don't
think it's fair to compare two division heads.
I think it's more fair to compare it to Mr. Fernandez's
compensation package and to other county attorney positions throughout
the state. I certainly don't want to be paying less than Lake County,
for God's sake, for a county attorney that deals with a lot of land
use matters that they aren't finding elsewhere.
That being said, I think we got Mr. Weigel on his initial year at
what I will call a bargain basement price. I think we actually kept
his salary at a lower level in a trial period intentionally to see how
he did. And I think today we're being asked whether or not we are
satisfied with the job performance he has done and whether or not we
want to bring him to a salary level that is consistent with his peers
and the balance of the state.
My personal opinion is that yes, there, as with anyone, have been
bumps in the road and adjustments. I think Mr. Weigel's had some
staffing issues within his office that have been a little more
difficult than we've seen in the past with people moving in and out of
positions. Whether he is or isn't responsible for that is -- I don't
have any personal knowledge of.
But I believe his deferred compensation should be equal to that
of the county administrator. I don't want to pre-judge the division
head position, that will come down the road.
I think his retirement class should be comparable to that of the
county administrator here. So I'm going to want to go that way.
I'm also going to attach to that something that I think we need
to value in Mr. Weigel and that is that he doesn't always tell us what
we want to hear. And when it comes to somebody sitting in that chair,
that's probably one of the most valuable things a board could have is
for a county administrator or a county attorney to tell us what they
honestly believe is right, as opposed to tailoring it to what we may
want to hear.
So with that, I would encourage Mr. Weigel to continue doing
that, and would like to support him with what's been presented here,
including the four percent compensation and the senior management
class retirement.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay. Commissioner Norris?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I pretty much agree with those comments.
Whether the deferred comp. is three or four is not a major issue to
me. If the board settles on four, that's fine.
I'm happy with the other items as well, the senior management
class and the pay as suggested in the top line there.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay. And you want the deferred comp. added
on to the 97,085.217
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
MR. WEIGEL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
MR. WEIGEL: He did.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
comp.
Did Mr. Conner have deferred comp
-- just for precedent?
His was at two percent at the time.
And you have presently two percent for
MR. WEIGEL: That's correct. I followed his contract very
closely --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I see.
MR. WEIGEL: -- coming in at $5,000 less than his salary at the
time that he left in 1995.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Pam, the deferred compensation -- I
learned a lot about that when I was negotiating Mr. Fernandez's
contract. And if you look at this list, at four percent we're one of
the lowest, comparatively.
It's a balance between salary and deferred compensation. We
historically have paid less deferred compensation than pretty much
anywhere else in the state with the exception of counties that have
50,000 people or less in them. So it's kind of a balancing act.
I chose with Mr. Fernandez's contract to bring back to the board
something that had a salary a little bit higher than I think the board
was really looking for, but with a deferred compensation that was a
little bit lower than Mr. Fernandez was looking for, and that was kind
of a negotiation point.
So I understood it with Bob's contract, and I'm comfortable
enough with that that if we were paying Mr. Weigel 105, $107,000 in
this, I would see the deferred compensation as being less, but I think
because he's at or just below probably a medium range for similar
counties, I think the deferred compensation of four percent is a
reasonable step.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It does -- I appreciate you pointing me to
that section of this evaluation. I think you're right, some are
seven, some of five, six, seven. Some are more than that. So yeah, I
think you're right, four percent is the right number.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: We've always -- and Bob heard me say this
in discussing his contract. I don't want people to come to work at
Collier County because we simply pay the best. I think there's
something to be said for getting the type of quality people we get and
not really paying the best. It says something about our government
and our community, and it means the people are probably going to want
to stay here.
There's a kind of a balance there. If they're coming just for
the money, they probably aren't going to stay that long. So I think
we need to stay competitive in the medium range. I think Mr. Weigel's
salary does that. And I think it will ensure we keep good people --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is that a motion?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Are you making a motion?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I will move that we approve the salaries
presented by Chairman Berry, with the deferred compensation of four
percent retirement at senior management class level.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay, we have a motion and a second. If
there's no further questions, all in favor?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Excuse me.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: You may want to clarify how your county
deferred compensation -- CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: This would be the pay for performance and pay
plan maintenance adjustment plus the four percent --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Correct.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- deferred comp.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Which is an increase of two percent over
the current contract.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Right.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: That's right.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's what I -- my second.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay, we have a motion and a second then.
Ail in favor?
Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Motion carries four-zero.
We will plug those numbers into the contract. Most everything
else is pretty much standard, I believe, in terms of where we are on
that; is that correct, David?
MR. WEIGEL: I think so. Just for clarity, can you tell me the
number then that would plug into page two of the agreement there,
which is the --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: On section three?
MR. WEIGEL: Yes, that's right.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Section three salary?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I need to -- I'll need to get that
recalculated, David, I believe.
MR. WEIGEL: Okay. Because if I understand correctly -- and
pardon my discussion, but purely for clarification -- is that with the
motion made in the past, that we would have the figure in there upon
which the four percent will be applied.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: That's right.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Correct.
MR. WEIGEL: And the idea was not to net it down so it's clear
back down to the initial figure that we had.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry, correct me if I'm
wrong, in case I misunderstood the way you laid this out, but the base
salary that would go into. 3-A would be the 97,085.21 number?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. That would be the base salary on
which the four percent would be based.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: That's right.
COMMISSIONER H3LNCOCK: So it actually --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Because if you go down then to where it has
the deferred comp., the 97,085.21 plus the 3,883.41 equals the
100,968.62.
MR. WEIGEL: Okay, fine.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Correct.
MR. WEIGEL: That is clear to me, and I want to say I thank the
commission --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: But wait a minute. Then I don't know how
they go ahead and figure then the deferred -- or the senior
retirement. I don't know if that's shown in the contract.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's base salary.
MR. WEIGEL: It's just a calculation made --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: It's just a --
MR. WEIGEL: -- against the salary.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay. Ail right.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: And you've already done that here in this
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Right, and it tells you what --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- Madam Chairman --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- that is.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- to 7,368.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Right, yeah, yeah.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay, so the base salary is 97,085.21,
deferred compensation of four percent equals $3,883.41, and the senior
management class retirement has a valuation of $7,368.77. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay. That was the intent of my motion,
so --
MR. WEIGEL: Again, I thank the commission. And I wanted also as
a post-note state that Commissioner Berry, Chairman Berry, is just as
rigorous in private negotiation as she is in the conduct of the
meetings themselves. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Good job, Barb.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: So does this mean you've had a discussion
with Bob and he calls me a pushover now, or what?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: We all think so.
MR. FERNANDEZ: I never said that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We all said that.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: In a few weeks it will be safe to say.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: As I said, though, it's -- when you start
talking about contracts and what a person's performance and so forth
is worth, it's a very difficult thing to do.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Particularly in the public domain.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Yes, it is. Yes, it is.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: And just as some people relish on taking
the negative side of that, I also think it's an opportunity for us to
mention the positives --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Right.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- and we should take that opportunity.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Am I the only person who is yet to do
their evaluation of the county administrator? MR. FERNANDEZ: No.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Because I haven't done that.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: This is another --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm sorry.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- this is another point I want to raise. We
must get this done. And the reason we have to, our county
administrator did not realize any kind of a pay adjustment because the
Board of County Commissioners has not taken this item up at a public
meeting.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: So that means -- CHAIRPERSON BERRY: So we need to -- you need to meet with him,
give him --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We need to do one first.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- give him your evaluation, talk with him,
and then we need to put this on an agenda item ASAP. He's not going
to be out the money, because it will be retroactive, but, you know,
Christmas is coming, so let's try and get these things taken care of
quickly.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I apologize for not --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Bob, would you --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- doing it sooner, but I will.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- would you reschedule our --
MR. FERNANDEZ: Yes, I'm sorry --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- meeting?
MR. FERNANDEZ: -- we had a meeting scheduled.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Ours was hurricane interrupted, but --
MR. FERNANDEZ: It got interrupted.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: But yeah, we do --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: But we need to get these taken care of
quickly.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: You do have a copy of mine?
MR. FERNANDEZ: Yes.
Item #10C
DISCUSSION RE TDC FUNDS - STAFF ANALYSIS TO BE PRESENTED AT LATER DATE
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay. An item last night -- and this next
item is item 10(C) and I brought up regarding the TDC. And I have to
tell you my concern. The more I thought about it, the more concerned I
got about it after last evening's meeting, which we had another
marathon -- what I considered a marathon session.
There's a disaster fund that we used for advertising, which you
all recall, and the amount of money in there at this point in time is
like 700 and some thousand dollars, I recall, from last night. Maybe
it's wrong. I'm not sure. Mr. Mihatic --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: It's supposed to be maintained around a
million dollars.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Well, it's in that category.
But one of the concerns was that they activated that fund --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: During Georges?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- after Georges. And my concern is that I
believe -- I'm concerned, it was to the tune of how much, Greg? MR. MIHALIC: $137,000.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Was spent on what?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Well, this is my concern. And the more I
thought about it, the more it wrangled at me last evening, and I
didn't sleep very well after I thought about this, because we didn't
deal with it. And Greg, if you can just elaborate a little bit on
that situation, please.
MR. MIHALIC: Yes, commissioners. That's set aside to try to
change the perception of post-hurricane recovery. The tourism
alliances surveilled the hotel owners and looked at what the
cancellations were after the storm passed, and they implemented a
stage one advertising parameters to the tune of about $137,000 that
they already had pre-bought and have in place at all times to recover
from any natural disaster that might hit the area.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I have a real problem with that group
spending public money without this board knowing about it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I was going to say, who's got oversight?
Who can authorize that expenditure?
MR. MIHALIC: It can be authorized by the county manager or his
designee, but it really is pre-authorized by purchase orders so that
it's ready and in place. And the advertising space is actually
pre-bought.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay, I'm clear on that, but what -- I
know it's pre-authorized, I know we talked about what it buys and all
that kind of stuff --
MR. MIHALIC: Yes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- and we blessed that plan a long time
ago.
MR. MIHALIC: Yes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: My question is, who's got the red phone to
say spend the money?
MR. MIHALIC: They have the authority to implement that, and the
county manager or his designee, and that's me, has the authority to
pay those bills when they are submitted.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So you made that decision, Greg?
MR. MIHALIC: Yes, I did. I -- we have not paid them yet, but
we've told them to submit their bills.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Did you receive advance notice that they
were going to do a stage one, or did they just go ahead and do it?
MR. MIHALIC: They gave us advanced notice that they were going
to make the buys and they sent us the information on the buys that
they had made and were going to implement.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay, we need to change that -- we need to
change that procedure.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I agree with that. But at this moment
what I would like to hear is, from Greg, your professional opinion
about how you decided to tell them yes, this is appropriate to spend.
Because maybe there's something here that I don't know.
MR. MIHALIC: In my opinion, the decision was theirs to make as
they talked to their hoteliers and decided they need some assistance
to be sure that people knew Collier County and Naples was here and
would come back.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So I absolutely agree that the decision
shouldn't be theirs to make. We've got to change that.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I agree, guys, because as far as I'm
concerned, any time we get a major -- we could get a no-name storm
that could create more havoc than what this storm did, and they could
decide to exercise that particular part of the contract.
And I am -- I was really concerned about this. And it came to us
last night as an information item only, and I was very, very
uncomfortable with that expenditure. And I still am. I am not -- I'm
not pleased about this at all.
We weren't a Key West. That was on national TV. Yes, there were
hotel cancellations, yes, the hotels on Marco Island, some of them
were closed, obviously, for a couple of days. But for the most part,
that was -- they were back up and running again, and there was not
anything that was damaged.
If people had merely called and inquired of the hotel, they would
have gotten word that things are okay, come on down, if they already
had a reservation. I'm just extremely -- to me, this is a license to
get some extra bucks.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Barb, you missed -- you weren't --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: And I just don't like it.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- here when we had the original
discussion on this, but the reason why we set this aside is even more
glaring, and that is when Andrew came through, there were incorrect
reports that Collier County was devastated.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Okay?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And this was --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: And I can --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- to rebut that.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- understand that.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Right, this was really to come out and --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- counter a media perception that Collier
County had been affected tremendously by the storm was the impetus for
creating this fund and for it to sit there for that purpose.
So there are two problems here: One, there was no media report
that I'm aware of that Collier County was adversely affected --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Quite the contrary.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- in this storm, okay? People were wise
enough to cancel their reservations a week after a hurricane was
targeted to hit a general area. That's going to happen in Florida,
okay? But my guess is two to three weeks after, those reservations
were holding. I don't know that, but I would have liked to have the
opportunity to review that information before allocating any funds.
So I don't think the shoe fits, so to speak.
But the second part that concerns me is now those funds have to
be replenished. And I tell you what, they're not coming from category
A and they're not coming from category C. They're coming from
category B. I mean, what are we going to do, are we going to rob
other events and beach renourishment to replenish disaster funds --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I don't think so.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- for marketing?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, that's -- we should put that on an
agenda and make that decision about --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: That's my personal opinion, obviously.
But I just -- I feel like we were completely out of the loop, and it
was structured in such a way that -- to be ready. But I wasn't aware
that it could be activated by someone presenting the information to
Greg and putting Greg in a position of being the gatekeeper. I mean,
I don't think you necessarily want to be in that position, and I don't
think it's an appropriate one, even if you do. I think that should
come at least at the county --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I do, too.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- manager level more -- and ratified by
this board.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Madam Chair, as fate would have it, I received a
memo across my desk this week that really gave me the same kind of
reaction. The memo was from Visit Naples, I believe, to Ken Pineau,
apprising him of the emergency plan. And as I read that, it struck me
that it was an autonomous kind of plan, it seemed.
And my reference and my routing comment was for Mr. Pineau to
apprise me of whether that plan was a subset of our emergency
management plan or was independent of that.
And I was heading -- if this conversation had not taken place
today, I was heading zn the direction of making sure that whatever
emergency plan they had was consistent with our emergency plan so that
if the Board of County Commissioners makes a determination to declare
emergency, or whatever, that it also address the decision that would
trigger the expenditure of these funds. That's where I was heading, if
that connection wasn't in place. I didn't know whether it was or not
from the memo that I had seen.
So we were in the process of making sure that there was a
coordination; that didn't appear to be taking place, from what I saw.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Commissioner Norris?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, what I would suggest is that since
obviously during a hurricane situation or other type of emergency we
have our emergency operation center going, and we have the Board of
Commissioners ready for emergency meetings at all times, that we have
to authorize these expenditures in advance through the Board of
Commissioners. To have Visit Naples independently decide that they're
going to spend money --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Right.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: That's wrong.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: -- I think we need to change that policy
immediately. And as soon as Mr. Weigel can get that redrafted and
brought to us, I think that's what we need to do. And
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Just for direction purposes, I agree to
give that task to Mr. Weigel and Mr. Fernandez to -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- to make that the outcome.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I think the point being that the Board of
Commissioners is here for emergency meetings anyway
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Absolutely.
MR. FERNANDEZ: That's right.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: -- all through the event, so why not?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: But I just don't think an outside group like
that should -- and actually -- I mean, it's -- you know, we've now
contracted with them, the TDC, through TDC. I don't believe that they
make those decisions.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: You know what floors me --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I just --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- is here we sit how many weeks after?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Right.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: And this is the first I even heard of it.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: That's what
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: And that's what's wrong.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: If I were with Visit Naples, and I
activated $130,000, I'd be back here as soon as I could, showing you
just what great good we did with that $130,000 for the tourism
community of Collier County. Instead, I've heard zippo. And that's
-- it's almost like -- I feel like one got snuck by us is how I feel.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Yes, Mr. Weigel?
MR. WEIGEL: In regard to the direction in bringing back an
ordinance amendment, under chapter 252 of the Florida Statutes, which
provides for the emergency prerogatives of local government, as well
as our own ordinance 84-7 for local emergencies, it provides that the
commission shall act, proclaim and declare an emergency and do all
those other things that are appropriate.
In the default or the inability of a quorum of the commission to
meet, our ordinance, as well as statute, authorizes the chairman or
the vice-chairman to act unilaterally. And then it ultimately
defaults to the county administrator.
I don't know if you want to have that built in as additional
flexibility to this ordinance or not, or we can draft it and if you
don't like it, you can sift it out -- CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
MR. WEIGEL: -- and keep it for the commission as a commission
quorum to do. But --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Let's draft it, because if it's that bad
that we can't even get five -- or three county commissioners together
to make a decision, then I think our tourism industry is going to be
affected, and that's what the money's intended to help with.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Right.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: So I would like to see the same language
apply here.
MR. WEIGEL: Okay, fine. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thanks for your help.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay, thanks, Greg.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: And Madam Chair, the other issue I wanted
to raise on this is, you may remember, this board agreed to add a
non-voting member to the Tourist Development Council that has
expertise in the area of management of tourism projects, special
events and whatnot. It was a -- it must have been a year ago when we
did this.
And as we were about to advertise, Commissioner Constantine
requested we put a hold on that because he had some grand plan that
was going to fix the TDC funds.
Well, that -- he had, I think, originally envisioned eliminating
category C. That hasn't happened. As a result, we still sit with the
same issues in category C we had prior to the marketing issue.
And I would like to ask the board to direct Ms. Filson to go
ahead and advertise for that position, because we still are going to
be faced with the same evaluative criteria issues on category C, as
long as it exists.
And I don't know if the person that was willing to volunteer is
still out there. I've had two other people call me whose resumes are
quite extensive in the area of doing marketing plans for countries, I
mean -- you know. And they're willing to volunteer their time. And
that's what we need on the TDC, we need that third person view that's
not in the industry but has experience in planning these types of
events and knows what questions to ask.
And we already went through all that and decided to do it and put
a hold on it. I'd like to release the hold and direct Ms. Filson to
advertise for that position.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I agree with that direction.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I agree that we need the position -- we've
needed it, from my standpoint, all year long, okay.
My only concern about doing it right now, Commissioner, is that
when this study comes back that's being done, I don't know how this is
all going to affect how the TDC -- how we handle business in the
future.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Let me offer this --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Because I'm really hoping that we're going to
come up --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: With a real plan.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- we need some real overhaul, guys. I
didn't realize it until I sat as the chairman of the TDC. And I have
to tell you, it's been a most difficult task, number one. And number
two, it just doesn't function, in my opinion, the way good government
ought to function.
It's just too -- it's very -- in my opinion, it's very loose,
there's a lot of money that flows through there. And I'm not talking
about the beach renourishment portion of it, okay? That's pretty much
cut and dried. There's some things there, it's pretty well spelled
out. There's not a lot of wiggle room there. But when you get over
into the other side of it, in my opinion, it gets real messy.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry, I think that makes --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: And I'm just not pleased at all with what
I've seen.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- the case for that third person view --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- more so.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Well, but --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Because if you're going to have a
restructuring of sorts, how that restructuring is done in such a way
that marketing, promotion and whatnot are more streamlined and made
more efficient and effective, someone who does that for a living would
be the kind of person we'd like to have input from.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: When do we expect to get that report back?
I know --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I believe November. I think -- I thought
they had said the first week in November. Is that
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: We wouldn't be --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- correct, Greg?
MR. MIHALIC: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- able to appoint this position for two
to three weeks, anyway.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Why don't we get that and then -- why
don't we schedule the two for the same meeting?
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: That's fine. I mean, we could go ahead and
advertise and get everything in place, Commissioner, and then go ahead
and we get the report --
MR. MIHALIC: The chamber -- excuse me.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: If we're going to have some huge change,
I'd rather have as much input from true professionals in the marketing
side than from folks who are used to marketing their property or their
industry --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Oh, I agree.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- as opposed to someone who's got a
broader background.
MR. MIHALIC: The Chamber of Commerce's survey is -- should be
completed in early November.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
MR. MIHALIC: Staff's analysis is pretty well done except for the
recommendations, and we would be on the same timetable as that.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay. But there needs to be some work done
in this area, and it's -- it's one of those things when you walk out
you just don't feel real good about everything that's
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It kept you awake.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- taken place.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I've often
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Yeah, it did.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- felt that sometimes we would have been
better off taking that money and bidding out a single firm to do a
promotion --
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, that's still an option.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- you know, rather than going through a
middle group who then -- I mean, it's just -- it's so convoluted. And
there are firms out there that you hire to do this stuff. Why are we
doing it?
You know, government is not in the business of promotion and
marketing. That's really not what we do best.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No kidding.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Well
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: But I think we'll see those kinds of
recommendations and those kinds of streamlining coming from people who
know what they're talking about. And that's not me, quite frankly,
not on this issue.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I think that we need to -- there are other
counties -- we don't need to reinvent the wheel, guys. This isn't
something we need to sit here and ponder and decide how -- the best
way to do it. There's plenty of expertise out there that can certainly
guide the process. We need to tap into it, figure out what we like,
and do it.
It's not rocket science, but it needs to be done. Because there's
just too much money that flows through the group, and there's so much
that can be done with it, if it's used effectively.
I'm not casting anything disparagingly on the current operation.
I frankly don't know how their -- I'm talking about the Visit Naples
group, we gave them over a million dollars to do what they're doing
for this next year, so I'm not -- I'm not saying anything negatively
about them. But I'm not sure that we're doing this in the best
possible way that it should be handled. COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Agreed.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just one thought is with the productivity
committee, one of the things that they are interested in doing, or
creating a mechanism for doing -- and I know they've been working with
Mr. Fernandez about it -- is communication with other counties about,
you know, not reinventing the wheel. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Right.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: How is it done somewhere else effectively?
And that might be something that we would have our staff look into as
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I do have to tell you, when we had the
meeting with Porter Goss, the delegation meeting which I was able to
attend up in Fort Myers, and the morning session, the convention and
visitors bureau -- and what's the lady's name? MR. FERNANDEZ: Elaine McLaughlin.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Elaine McLaughlin is their executive
director, I guess, for the CVB up there? MR. FERNANDEZ: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: And I have to say that I was very much
impressed with what they have done in terms of how they market all of
Lee County. It's not just one section --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Not just the coast.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- all the entire county. And it's very, very
impressive.
That's what I said, I think the expertise is out there.
Certainly all of you had the opportunity to talk to the two gentlemen
that came down. I think most of you did, talked to one or two of the
guys. And they certainly have expertise as well, that if we need --
if we need some outside help, I think there's plenty of help out there
to give to us. We just need to get everything in motion. Enough said
on this.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Well, I just have -- I'll tell you folks,
what I told Commissioner Berry this morning. I worked at a CVB when I
was in college. I worked for a convention of visitors bureau. I've
seen how it's done, you know, on that side, and it just gives me even
greater cause for concern on how we're doing it here.
So, you know, I think we're moving in the right direction to
getting some additional input and maybe need to look at wholesale
changes in the future. I won't be here for that, but I wish you luck.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: But I think it can be a real plus, I really
do.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sure.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I think we can come up with a first-class
operation, which is -- we should expect nothing less than that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's a lot of money.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I believe we're down to the Ty Agoston
portion of our --
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I think we are.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: -- agenda.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Public comments.
MR. FERNANDEZ: No registered --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Ty.
MR. FERNANDEZ: -- speakers, Madam Chairman.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Ty, you don't want to talk to us today?
Nothing?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's a short agenda, Ty, come on.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay, then we'll --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I can't believe we're sitting here asking,
begging Ty to spend five minutes of his time speaking to us. It's --
you know, I mean, do we have nothing to do this afternoon, what?
MR. AGOSTON: You guys want to play cards?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I learn so much.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: We can --
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: We'll play cribbage afterwards.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: -- sing, dance, you know, do any of those
kinds of things.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: You have to remember, Ty, if you refuse an
offer to speak, that you're disallowed for the next six months.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's it.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Sometimes those things happen, you know.
Item #14
STAFF COMMUNICATIONS - UPDATE ON NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE GOLDEN GATE FIRE
AND RESUCE CONTROL DISTRICT REGARDING THE COLLIER COUNTY FIRE DISTRICT
SERVICE CONTRACT - STAFF TO BRING CONTRACT BACK AT FUTURE DATE
Okay, going on to item 14, staff communication, Golden Gate
Fire and Rescue. Mr. Fernandez?
MR. FERNANDEZ: Madam Chairman, we do have a very brief
presentation that we can fill a little bit of time with. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
MR. FERNANDEZ: We've asked Mr. Ochs to be prepared to speak to
you about the Golden Gate Fire Control District and their contract
with us.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
MR. OCHS: Thank you. For the record, Leo Ochs, support services
administrator. Good morning again. Very briefly, I understand is the
operative word, so I will be brief.
As you know, last week at the end of the board meeting,
Commissioner Constantine raised a few questions about the status of
the negotiations for the contract between this board and the Golden
Gate Fire and Rescue Control District for fire protection service to
Collier County District 1.
As a result of those questions, I've had several conversations
over the past few days with Chief Peterson and pleased to report to
the board this morning that the parties have resolved any outstanding
issues.
The chief will be bringing the contract to his board at their
meeting of November llth for approval subsequent to that action by the
fire district. Your staff, as always, will bring that contract back
for ratification and approval by this board.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Great news.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Good. Thank you very much. We're down to --
anything, Mr. Fernandez?
MR. FERNANDEZ: Madam Chairman, I'd just like to take a minute to
acknowledse and thank the board for the flowers and expressions of
sympathy in the passing of my dad, and also, the division
administrators and really the entire organization. I was very
comforted by the expressions of support from the organization. Thank
you very much.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: You're very welcome.
Anything else? Mr. Weigel, do you have anything for us?
MR. WEIGEL: No, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to work
with you an additional period.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Thank you.
Commissioner Mac'Kie?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I can't resist the opportunity to thank
the board for its general fund budget amendment in the consent agenda
today of $1,500 in support of United Way. Good job.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Commissioner Norris?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Nothing further.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Commissioner Hancock?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I can resist.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: You can't resist?
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I can.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Okay. And this morning we're happy to have
Ms. Chris Brighton with us, who is sitting in. As you know, we have
done this to make sure that everybody, in case something disastrously
would happen to Ms. Filson, we have someone else that can come in and
sit in. And all of them will be going through this. So this morning
we're happy to have Ms. Brighton sitting with us.
COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: That's Lieutenant Brighton in place of
General Filson.
CHAIRPERSON BERRY: At any rate, if there's nothing further to
come before this board, we stand adjourned.
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:40 a.m.
***** Commissioner Hancock moved, seconded by Commissioner Norris and
carried 4/0 (Commissioner Constantine absent), that the following items
under the Consent and Summary Agendas be approved and/or adopted: *****
Item #16Al
PETITION VAC-98-024, TO DISCLAIM, RENOUNCE AND VACATE THE PUBLIC'S
INTEREST IN A 20' WIDE PARCEL OF LAND CONVEYED TO COLLIER COUNTY AS AN
ACCESS AND MAINTENANCE EASEMENT, RECORDED IN OFFICIAL RECORD BOOK 1889,
PAGES 2393 AND 2394 AND BEING LOCATED IN SECTION 1, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH,
RANGE 25 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA AND EXECUTION OF THE QUITCLAIM
DEED
Item #16A2
PETITION VAC-98-020, TO DISCLAIM, RENOUNCE AND VACATE THE COUNTY'S AND
THE PUBLIC'S INTEREST IN A PORTION OF A 10' WIDE PARCEL OF LA_ND
CONVEYED TO COLLIER COUNTY AS A UTILITY EASEMENT, RECORDED IN OFFICIAL
RECORD BOOK 1297, PAGES 1161 THROUGH 1164, PUBLIC RECORDS OF COLLIER
COUNTY, LOCATED IN THE COURTHOUSE SHADOWS SHOPPING CENTER IN SECTION
12, TOWNSHIP 50 SOUTH, RA~NGE 25 EAST, COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA A_ND
EXECUTION OF THE QUITCLAIM DEED
Item #16A3
ACCEPTANCE OF $12,176.43 AS THE FAIR SHARE CONTRIBUTION FOR DEDICATION
OF THE RIGHT-OF-WAY FOR CHAMPIONSHIP DRIVE AND APPROVAL OF THE
SATISFACTION OF DEDICATION CONDITION
Item #16A4
FINAL PLAT OF GUILFORD ESTATES
Item #16A5
RESOLUTION 98-424 AUTHORIZING FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE ROADWAY,
DRAINAGE, WATER AND SEWER IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF "SILVER
LAKES PHASE TWO-C"
Item #16A6
FINAL PLAT OF PELICAN STR3LND REPLAT 5 - SUBJECT TO CONSTRUCTION,
MAINTENANCE AND ESCROW AGREEMENT
Item #16A7
ACCEPTANCE OF A CONSTRUCTION, MAINTENANCE AND ESCROW AGREEMENT IN
EXCHANGE FOR A LETTER OF CREDIT FOR PELICAN STRAND
Item #16B1
SUBORDINANTION AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTYY AND THE STATE OF
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION IN ORDER TO COMPLETE THE U.S. 41
EXPANSION PROJECT FROM RATTLESNAKE HAMMOCK ROAD TO EAST OF SR-951
Item #16B2
SUPPLEMENTAL AGREEMENT WITH HOLE, MONTES AND ASSOCIATES, INC. FOR
CONSTRUCTION ENGINEERING AND INSPECTION SERVICES FOR THE
AIRPORT-PULLING ROAD BRIDGE PROJECT AT JUNCTION IMMOKALEE ROAD - IN THE
A/~OLYNT OF $143,826.00
Item #16B3 Moved to Item #8B1
ACCEPTANCE OF THE PETITION FOR THE HUNTERS ROAD PAVING ASSESSMENT
DISTRICT MUNICIPAL SERVICE BENEFIT UNIT (MSBU); STAFF TO PREPARE AN
ENGINEERING FEASIBILITY REPORT; AND PURSUE ACQUISTION OF REMAINING
RIGHT-OF-WAY EASEMENTS
Item #16B4
PETITION TM-96-18 FOR NEIGHBORHOOD TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT TO TRAFFIC CALM
THAT PORTION OF ST. ANDREWS BOULEVARD FROM THE VICINITY OF FOREST HILLS
BOULEVARD NORTHERLY TO THE VICINITY OF RATTLESNAKE HAMMOCK ROAD;
APPROVAL OF $8,025.00 WHICH IS THE COUNTY'S SHARE FOR CONSTRUCTION OF
THE PROJECT; A_ND STAFF TO OBTAIN THE AGREED UPON MATCHING FUNDS FROM
THE LELY COUNTRY CLUB PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION; AND SCHEDULE THE
INSTALLATION OF THE SPEED HUMPS BY PHASES AS REQUESTED BY THE COMMUNITY
Item #16B5
APPROPRIATION OF A PORTION OF CARRY FORWARD FROM FUND 136 FOR THE
COMPLETION OF LANDSCAPE CONSTRUCTION ON CR 951 (PROJECT 69116) SO THAT
GOLDEN GATE MSTU CAN COMPLETE A NEW LANDSCAPE CONSTRUCTION PROJECT
Item #16B6
SUPPLEMENTAL AGREEMENT NO. 5 WITH HOLE, MONTES AND ASSOCIATES, INC. FOR
THE IMMOKALEE ROAD SIX LANE IMPROVEMENT PROJECT NO. 69101 - IN THE
ANOUNT OF $66,766.00
Item #16B7
BUDGET AMENDMENT RECOGNIZING REVENUE TO BE RECEIVED FROM WCI IN FISCAL
YEAR 1999 AND APPROPRIATING RESERVES IN THE FISCAL YEAR 1999 CLAM BAY
RESTOP~ATION FUND
Item #16D1
RESOLUTION 98-425, AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION AND ACCEPTANCE OF AN
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY AFFAIRS AND
COLLIER COUNTY REGARDING EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT PROGRAM ENHANCEMENT
Item #16D2
RESOLUTION 98-426 PJtTIFYING A_ND APPROVING THE EXPENDITURE OF FUNDS FOR
ACTIVITIES AND INCENTIVE PRIZES ASSOCIATED WITH COUNTY STAFF
PARTICIPATION IN THE UNITED WAY CA~MPAIGN PURSUANT TO THE PROVISIONS OF
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 87-5, AS SERVING A VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE
Item #16G1
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE - FILED AND/OR REFERRED
The following miscellaneous correspondence as presented by the
Board of County Commissioners has been directed to the various
departments as indicated:
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
BARBARA B. BERRY, CHAIRPERSON
ATTEST:
DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK
These minutes approved by the Board on , as
presented or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING
SERVICE, INC., BY CHERIE' R. LEONE, NOTARY PUBLIC