Loading...
BCC Minutes 05/20/1999 W (CDES and Public Works) May 20, 1999 TRANSCRIPT OF THE TOWN MEETING OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS Naples, Florida, May 20, 1999 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 7:15 p.m. in WORKSHOP SESSION at Golden Gate community Center, Golden Gate, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRWOMAN: Pamela S. Mac'Kie Barbara B. Berry John C. Norris Timothy J. Constantine James D. Carter ALSO PRESENT: Robert Fernandez, County Administrator David Weigel, County Attorney Page 1 COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AGENDA THURSDAY, MAY 20, 1999 TOWN HALL MEETING 7:00 P.M. GOLDEN GATE COMMUNITY CENTER NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHll~G TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER WITH THR COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED. COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 99-22 REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT. 1. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE 2. ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION A..COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND .ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES l) Golden Gate arcs Master Plan update. 2) Governmental Utility Authority/Florida Cities Water Company update. 3) Housing Ownership Program. 4) 1-75 Interchange update. B. PUBLIC WORld. 1) Report to the Board on the status of ongo|ng work performed by the Transportation Services Department in the ~olden Gate area. 2) Landfill Issues Status Report. 3. PUBLIC COMMENT 4. ADJOURN - ~ 1 May 20, 1999 May 20, 1999 Item #2A1 GOLDEN GATE AREA MASTER PLAN UPDATE CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Good evening. Let's see. Good evening, everybody. Is this on? You guys? No? COMMISSIONER BERRY: It's on. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: That's as on as it gets. Hi, everybody. We'd like to call to order this meeting of the Collier County Commission for our Golden Gate Town Hall. And I have a flag, we can start with the pledge of allegiance, if you'd all stand. (Pledge of allegiance was recited in unison.) CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: I'd like to thank everybody for showing up tonight. And hopefully you've all found the agendas that are available for everyone. You'll see from the agenda that we have a couple of items that we're going to have discussions from staff, and we'll invite public comment on those as we go. So if you want to speak, for example, on the Golden Gate area master plan after we've heard the staff presentation, we'll just call on anybody who would like to, to come forward to one of these two microphones and talk to us about those topics, and then if we haven't covered something you want to talk about, at the end of the evening we have a just for public comment on general topics, so we will try to use that as sort of a catchall at the end. But the very first topic we have on our agenda tonight is the Golden Gate area master plan update. And who's going to make that presentation? Barbara Cacchione. MS. CACCHIONE: Good evening. My name's -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: They either work really, really well or not at all. MS. CACCHIONE: -- Barbara Cacchione for the record, and I'm going to put up the Golden Gate master plan so you can look at that as I'm going over these items. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Chivalry lives. I love it. MS. CACCHIONE: What I'd like to do is really go over the fact that you have a master plan for the Golden Gate area. And it's basically this area you see here identified in this peach color on this map. To orient you, this is 951. Alligator Alley. This would be Golden Gate City. This other orange area you see at this location would be Orangetree. And the balance of it is Golden Gate Estates. Now, your master plan has been in place since 1991. Took about two years to develop with a lot of citizen input. And that plan has seen relatively few changes over the year years. I want to go over a few changes that are in your executive summary, and I also want to let you know of some proposed changes that are filed for this year. To begin with -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Are you guys having trouble hearing? (Audience replies in the affirmative.) Page 2 May 20, 1999 CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: I'm having trouble, too, Barb, so maybe -- MS. CACCHIONE: It's kind of -- actually, let me do this. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yeah, there you go. MS. CACCHIONE: I think I have it now. To begin with, there was an amendment of a 2.3 acre parcel in Golden Gate Estates at this location, and that's at the Pine Ridge Road intersection. And that is to add an office district, very small piece, for one office building. Also, on the north side of the Pine Ridge interchange, there was an amendment to provide offices on about 13 acres, and also conditional uses. That's on the northwest corner of the 1-75/Pine Ridge Road interchange. And that's identified in blue. The other changes that were made was next to Randall Boulevard, a small piece was added to that between the fire station and between the existing Mobil Station there, gas station. And also, the Santa Barbara commercial subdistrict was added in this last amendment cycle. And that is located along Santa Barbara, up Golden Gate Parkway. Now, that district is a district that was adopted this year. And what will happen now is we will do specific design guidelines for how that area will develop in terms of what type of commercial and how it will look. And those design guidelines will be put into our Land Development Code, and that should begin in June and July of this year, and probably end up in October or November with public hearings before the board. The amendments that have been filed for this year, there are several of them. Actually, there are two of them. One is at the corner of Golden Gate Parkway and Santa Barbara Boulevard. And that is to request commercial. And that acreage is about seven acres on that piece of property. And it's the northwest corner of Santa Barbara and Golden Gate Parkway. The second proposal is to modify the Golden Gate office Parkway commercial district, which is within Golden Gate City. And that's along the south side and north side, along the Parkway. And that's the area identified in purple on this map. And in that area, there is a proposal to intensify or increase some of the uses that are permitted in that particular area. Right now the only uses that are permitted are office type uses and some other limited uses. And the request with this comprehensive plan amendment is to allow some limited retail type uses. The -- I think actually there are three amendments. The third amendment is on the corner of Wilson Boulevard and Golden Gate Boulevard. And that is the southeast corner. Just opposite G's on the south side. And that is a proposal for commercial for approximately 7.15 acres. Now, these three amendments will go through a very long process that has just begun. There will be four public hearings, and the first of those public hearings will be held in September before our Planning Commission, October before the board. Then there's also a review by state and regional planning agencies. And then in probably February or so, those plan amendments will come back again for two more public hearings, again before our Planning Commission, and Page 3 May 20, 1999 finally before our Board of County Commissioners. So there will be a lot of opportunity for input. And if you have any questions on any of those items as they come before the board, just give us a call at 403-2300, and we can go over those with you. That would conclude my presentation, unless anyone has any questions. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: If anyone has questions or comments, anything you'd like to say in particular to the Golden Gate master plan, if you'd just come up to one of these microphones, identify yourself for our court reporter, and we'd love to hear from you. That's why we're here. Anybody on this topic? Did anyone register for this topic, Mr. Fernandez? MR. FERNANDEZ: You have none registered for this topic. Item #2A2 GOVERNMENTAL UTILITY AUTHORITY/FLORIDA CITIES WATER COMPANY UPDATE CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Anything on this? If not, we will move on to the next topic, which is an update on the Governmental Utility Authority/Florida Cities Water Company update. And is Mr. Wallace going to give us that report? MR. WALLACE: Yes, ma'am. For the record, Bleu Wallace, director of utility and franchise regulation. On 15 April, 1999, Florida Cities Water Company, a subsidiary of Avatar Holdings, transferred its system here in Golden Gate to a new entity called the Florida Governmental Utility Authority Utility Authority. This is made up of several counties: Brevard, Gulf, Hillsborough, Sarasota, Lee and Collier County. Collier County is a nonparticipating member. The other counties were interested in purchasing those Avatar systems in those counties, and that's why this Governmental Utility Authority was formed. The transfer will not result in any rate increase and will not result in any change in the service area boundaries. The interlocal agreement between the Florida Governmental Utility Authority and Collier County stipulated that this utility will still answer to Collier County through the Collier County Water and Wastewater Authority and the -- and our Department of Utility and Franchise Regulation. So there's still safeguards there. If our customers have problems with a utility that they can't resolve, then they should give the Utility and Franchise Regulation Department a call. There's a fact sheet on the table in the back. You might pick that up. It has the service number for the Governmental Utility Authority here in Golden Gate. It also has our department's number, if anyone should have any problems. There were two representatives flying down from -- one from Tallahassee and one from the east coast. But I haven't seen them -- are they here? Mr. Fred Bloetcher and Mr. Tom Boyd from the Page 4 May 20, 1999 Governmental Utility Authority. They can answer any questions that I haven't covered. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Any board questions on this topic? Hi, Fred, good to see you. Mr. Constantine? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just by way of history on this, there's a couple of points, and that is from 1985 till 1995, Collier County had given away rate control over what rates happened at private utilities like those in Golden Gate and Florida Cities. And those of you who have been here a few years remember we had some tremendous increases in both water and sewer. We had, oh, for about a three-year period well in excess of 100 percent increase in the early Nineties. 1995, the board took back that control. And not only has there been virtually no increase in that time frame, but also, all due credit to Bleu and his staff, they have cut the administrative costs that used to be charged out of Tallahassee. Did -- they're now one-third what they were then. They were four and a half percent at that time, and are way down to a percent and a half. They stepped that back carefully over time. But it just goes to show two things happen when you do it locally instead of in Tallahassee or beyond, and that is the increases aren't happening with the regularity or with the amount that they did before, but also the administration and the responsiveness to the residents has dramatically improved. So I just wanted to make sure we gave some credit to staff for doing what they've done there. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Great. And questions for Fred? Questions or comments from anyone in the audience on this topic? We appreciate you being here. MR. BLOETCHER: Thanks. You'll see me again. Let me make a couple of comments so that people understand. Number one, the authority is a governmental body, it's not a private utility assessment. The authority is formed with kind of -- with the intent of trying to operate the system optimally, provide customer service, try to maintain rates so they're not being increased. So that's kind of our goal. We at some point here are going to start a process. We're going to get together with the county folks and with the people out here. There will be a public meeting to kind of talk to the authority, and we'll let the county people know about that, sometime in the next 30 days or so. Also, we're going to do a strategic plan for where both the county and the residents of Golden Gate want to see this go, and we would hope that you participate in that process. If you have any questions, call the local number. They're going to answer it "Authority," but the same people that have been operating the system are contracted, continue to operate it. We think that will be a pretty good system. And, you know, we've been 30 days into this and relatively -- we haven't really had any problems. It's pretty transparent to the customers, hopefully. Thanks. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you, Fred. Page 5 May 20, 1999 THE COURT REPORTER: May I have your name, sir? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Oh, Fred Bloetcher. Although, I couldn't spell your -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: B-L-O-E-T-C-H-E-R. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Got it? THE COURT REPORTER: Yes, thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Sorry. In the future I'll have to be better about getting people to identify themselves for the record. Item #2A3 HOUSING OWNERSHIP PROGRAM The next item on our agenda is a housing ownership program that is extremely exciting, if you ask me. And we have Cormac Giblin, who's the manager of housing and urban and improvement for Collier County to make a presentation. I -- you know, get your pencil out on this one. This one has some information that may really positively affect people. COMMISSIONER BERRY: And there's handouts, too. MR. GIBLIN: Good evening. CHAIRWOMAN MAQ'KIE: And Corm will probably tell you, but Ms. Berry just pointed out to me that there are handouts on this in the back of the room both in Spanish and English. MR. GIBLIN: Good evening, again. My name's Cormac Giblin. I'm the housing manager for Collier County. I'd like to talk to you tonight about some of our housing home ownership programs that are run here by the county. And we hope we can have you all take advantage of some of them. And my personal goal, we'd like to see all of you buy a home out here in Golden Gate. A little background. Our housing programs fall under.the estate program call the SHIP program. We receive 1.7 million dollars a year from the state with which to run these three different strategies that we've decided to do here in Collier County. I've got some handouts in the back. There's a blue one, an orange one and a green one. And I'll be talking about each one individually. Locally hear in Collier County, in the past five years, we've helped over 900 first-time home buyers get theirselves (sic) into their first homes with the county assistance. If you want to center here in Golden Gate, in the past year, 1998, 56 homes were purchased with county assistance just here in Golden Gate. These are your friends and neighbors. 37 of those were in the Golden Gate City and 21 of them out in the Estates. Just today I delivered six checks to closings for people buying homes in Golden Gate of $2,500 each to help them out with their closings today. Next week we have another 10 scheduled just in Golden Gate. The first program I'd like to talk about is the one on the blue sheet. It's our downpayment and closing cost assistance program. Through this program a first-time home buyer who is a very low -- I'm sorry, not very low, just low income -- can receive $2,500 from the Page 6 May 20, 1999 county to help out with your downpayment and closing cost expenses. In addition to that, after you close you can receive an additional $2,500 from the county to make any necessary repairs or improvements to the home you just bought. This isn't a gift from the county, it's actually a loan that we give you. But there's no interest on it and you don't make any payments on it until you sell the home, refinance it or lose your homestead exemption. So basically it's free money from the county until you decide to sell your house. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: And if you'd talk -- just in case people don't have the blue sheets in front of them, when you say low income, low income in Collier County for a family of four means that your annual income is $47,300. I mean, we're not talking a $20,000 household income here. Your family of four can have 47,300 and qualify for this up to $5,000 sort of free loan. MR. GIBLIN: Exactly. The state sets these incomes based on the median income of the county. In Collier County our median income is $59,100, thanks to all the people down in Port Royal with large stock portfolios. That drives everyone's average up and makes the low income threshold almost attainable for anyone. One person living alone can have an income of $33,100, which isn't a pretty bad salary, and you can still take advantage of these programs. The second program I'd like to talk about is an impact fee waiver and deferral program. It's run basically identical to the Downpayment assistance program; however, it's geared strictly if you're building a new house. Through this program, you can get part or all of your impact fees associated with that new house waived or deferred for a period of 15 years. Just for example, if you buy a home that has county water and sewers, the impact fees associated with that house would be $7,000. If it doesn't have county water or sewer, impact fees will run you about $4,000. So if you were looking to build a new home, you may be -- it might be more advantageous for you to take advantage of this program, instead of the downpayment assistance. Another program that we're very excited about is a mortgage bond issue by the Florida Housing Finance Corporation. We've partnered with them to identify Collier County as an area to give out some very low interest rate mortgages. In this program -- this is on the yellow sheet that was out in the back -- you can receive a home mortgage at 5.75 percent fixed for 30 years. The income limit for this program is again very high. It's $59,100, for one or two people, and 67,965 for three or more. In addition to the very low interest rate, through this program you can take advantage of some additional downpayment assistance money from the state of up to $15,000. You can piggyback this program with either of our other two programs and you could end up with essentially a $20,000 downpayment assistance from both the state and the county. If you put that together with a mortgage of 30 years for 5.75 percent, you could buy a $75,000 home and mortgage it for 30 years at -- for $335 a month. Plus you would still have the extra $2,500 in repair systems from the county to do after you close. Page 7 May 20, 1999 CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Told you you'd like this one. MR. GIBLIN: The last program I'd like to talk about really briefly is -- it's on the green piece of paper back there. This is to help out people who already own a home. If you already own a home and it may need some repairs, maybe a roof is broken, windows broken, we can help you out with a loan to help you fix up your house. The income limit for this program is a little bit lower. It's only open to very low income. However, if -- still here in Collier County, that still may not be too low. A family of four can make 29,550 or less. Through this program, we can provide you with a loan of $15,000 to make repairs or improvements to your home. And the loan is structured exactly as the other ones I've already talked about; zero interest, deferred payment until you sell, refinance, or lose your homestead exemption. So again, you can go in and make very substantial repairs to your home for $15,000, and not pay a penny back until you sell that home. That's really all I have. I'll be happy to take any questions. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, sir, if you have a question, would you mind coming to the microphone? I'm sorry to ask you, but if you could help him here, I'd appreciate that, so we could all hear. And if you'd identify yourself for the record, sir. MR. BAHANOVICH: Yes. I'm Father Bahanovich. I'm Russian Orthodox Priest. And I retired due to my disability being legally blind. We had several meetings to go to, but we chose what -- we thought this primarily was about dealing with trash disposal. We used to live on Radio Road at Sapphire Lakes, but now we live in Village Walk. And of course trash is the -- one of the concerns. But other than that, of course also we pay taxes, and so I'm hearing to other presentation here which also concerns us because we're taxpayers. When I came 51 years ago to United States, an orphan, I couldn't qualify in none of those programs, and yet I'm a veteran with maximum benefits. I was in the Air Force approximately five years. What my question is, is pertaining to this presentation now. Why is the county in this -- you know, providing this funding, particularly tax free -- I mean interest free. And yet here you have like FHA and then you have -- I've been listening more recently to the heart person on the CSpan and so on, and the -- and even the country music which I love, the name of Mr. Charles Daniels, is it, the Habitat for Humanities, where you don't have to put down no downpayment. They give you a key. If you can't, for a reason, acquire a home. And so why is county involved? Is it tax supportive, if I understood correctly? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, sir. Basically this is the program that we get money from the state. The state -- Cormac, you could probably tell this better than I. MR. GIBLIN: Sure. The funding from this program comes from state documentary taxes for everything that's recorded within the state. It's a dedicated fund source that the overall State SHIP program. And each county is given out a certain amount of that. Page 8 May 20, 1999 CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: In other words, sir, the state's already collecting this tax and there's a portion of it that's available to Collier County, and so we're trying to get it to the people who need it, since it's already being collected by the state. MR. BAHANOVICH: I understand that point. But why can't I go through like FHA if that's what FHA's for? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: This is in addition to that. And on your question about trash, you wanted to talk about that, sir? MR. BAHANOVICH: Yes. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: That's about two items away on our agenda. We will be having a presentation about that. MR. BAHANOVICH: Okay, I appreciate that. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: And sir, if you could spell your last name. We have a court reporter who needs to get it on the record. MR. BAHANOVICH: Bahanovich. B-A-H-A-N-O-V-I-C-H. I had a pleasure talking with the Commissioner, if he's there, Timothy Constantine. Is he here? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yes. MR. BAHANOVICH: I spoke to him on the phone, but I never had the pleasure of meeting him in person. But I did meet in person, apparently when you were not in, Commissioner John Norris. I met him in person. So -- but anyway, a little humor as far as the trash. You know, cleanliness is next to Godliness. And I inject in answer to this meeting, that's why I'm concerned about trash. Thank you, God bless. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you, sir. Does anyone else have questions or comments on this housing program that's been outlined? If you do -- yes, please come right on up to the microphone, if you would, and give us your name for the record. MS. McMILLAN: Would this -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Your name for the record, please. MS. McMILLAN: Margaret McMillan. I live in Golden Gate Estates. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, ma'am. MS. McMILLAN: And my question is for some people who were at our civic meeting last night who live in the southern estates. And would this program or these programs enable these people to stay where they are? They cannot get pairments (sic)? They've been there for years. They bought their land when they didn't need pairments. They were told they could do what they like. Now they're being inundated by code enforcement. And they're in one terrible mess. Now, I know these southern estates are being bought by -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: The state. MS. McMILLAN: -- the state. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, ma'am. MS. McMILLAN: These people do not impact the nature out there. They live in the wilderness. That's the way they want it. They don't have telephones, electricity. They don't ask for anything. And they're being forced off the land. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay, we understand that. But this program Page 9 May 20, 1999 is for first-time home buyers and first-time home buyers are defined as people who have not owned a home in the last three years, at least. Now, if these people own their home, they're obviously not going to qualify. MS. MCMILLAN: But didn't he say that it also helps people who have to bring their home repair and things like that? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's a different program, yeah. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: That is one of the programs. MS. McMILLAN: But he did mention that, didn't he? MR. GIBLIN: Yes. MS. McMILLAN: This is what I'm asking. MR. GIBLIN: If you're able to -- these programs can apply anywhere in the county where you can get a building permit. If there's a problem getting a building permit, that's really not our -- I can't speak to that. MS. McMILLAN: Well, I'm hoping these people will bring it before the County Commissioners, and I'm hoping you can help them. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you. Item #2A4 i-75 INTERCHANGE UPDATE Anyone else on the housing program? Okay, if not, we will go on and have an update from Gavin Jones on the 1-75 interchange. MR. JONES: Madam Chairwoman, commissioners, good evening. I'm Gavin Jones with the Metropolitan Planning Organization staff. In your agenda packet is an executive summary that gives a bit of the history in the -- to the process of seeking a new interchange on 1-75 at Golden Gate Parkway. That interchange is being a part of the long-range plans for -- long-range transportation plans for Collier County for over 10 years now. And it's being programmed to be constructed with dollars that are -- come through the state DOT's work program in our county. Now, those dollars are programmed as the result of an unfunded priority-setting process that the Metropolitan Planning Organization goes through each year, and as a result of that process, the recommendations that came out of it were to make this interchange the county's number one priority. And for that reason, all of the phases for the design and construction of the interchange are now in the state work program. The dollars are available and they are programmed in the state's work program in the fiscal year '03-'04. However, despite our willingness to spend these state work program dollars on an interchange and the construction is estimated at the moment to cost 12.7 million, and despite the desire of the community to see it there, there is one extra step and that is approval by the Federal Highway Administration, who has some strong feelings about just how many new interchanges are constructed on the interstate system. Justification for an interchange has to demonstrate that the Page 10 May 20, 1999 level of service for the long-distance trip-makers on the interstate cannot be preserved through modifications to any of the adjacent existing interchanges, namely Pine Ridge Road and County Road 951, and to some extent Immokalee Road. So the state has hired a consultant to prepare a report to demonstrate that that level of service for long-distance trip-makers cannot be preserved with all of the improvements possible to the existing interchanges, and that the only way to preserve the level of service for long-distance trip-makers is to construct a new one. The Federal Highway Administration needs to see that demonstrated, and to date it has not been demonstrated to the their satisfaction. The DOT is preparing some additional analyses for the Federal Highway Administration, and they'll be returning -- transmitting that to them on the week of the 14th of June, and that's where we are in the process. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: I'd like to sort of say that in plain talk, if I can, is just that basically the county approval has been there for a long time. We've been pushing for this. The state approval for this interchange is there. And the last hurdle is the Federal -- MR. JONES: -- Highway Administration. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: -- Highway Administration. And basically you have to do everything in the world except build a new interchange before they'll let you build one. And now we've got to prove we've done that and that we've done every reasonable thing to help the traffic on 1-75. And FDOT I think is convinced that we have done every reasonable thing. They're considering some additional improvements or additional lanes at the Pine Ridge intersection, if that may be what it takes to get the feds to go ahead and give us this intersection at Golden Gate. But basically we're at the mercy right now of the federal regulators, trying to convince them that it's necessary. MR. JONES: Correct. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, ma'am, if you would come to the microphone. MS. GENNIS: My name is Josephine Gennis. G-E-N-N-I-S. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you. MS. GEEIS: I have a question. You know, you're talking about 10 years ago this was like wilderness here. You know, now it's a big residential neighborhood. And I'm just wondering whether any of the -- you know, has there been like an official survey? Do people still want this? I know the county thinks it needs it, but you don't know if it needs it right there. People are still building right at the crossroads of the intersection now on the Parkway. The property values have skyrocketed. And now you just want to knock everybody out and close off streets and everything else. And -- how about some kind of survey or a vote or something like that to either do it there or do it somewhere else? You know we need something, but -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Sure. I think actually as part of the focus process, among others, we have done a number of surveys and have Page 11 May 20, 1999 a pretty good indication, and I've got a number of calls from people saying exactly what you did, gosh, I see a new home going up on that corner down there. Why, if you're thinking about doing it? And the reason is we don't own that property yet, we don't have any specific plan in mind for that property yet. Assuming we get the go-ahead for the interchange, they still need to do the engineering and decide where the entrance and exits will be. They need to buy the property and so on. But until the plans are made, you can't prohibit someone with private property from using their own land. THE WITNESS: Okay, that's true. Now, about a year ago, there was something at the Naples Depot from the Florida Transportation Department, and they had movies and slides and they had diagrams and everything they were doing like really affected that whole unit. That's unit 29 on the west side of the Parkway. And on the east side, I don't know if it's 28, I'm not sure. But, you know, they were closing off streets and forcing the traffic to come through dead end streets that exist now. Nothing that they did really made any sense, and the only people that live in the immediate area and the two units on either side of that were people who wanted to sell their property anyway. I mean, from what I've spoken -- you know, from the people I've spoken to and the people who live down there, who even if I didn't know them, I spoke with them. And only the people who were looking to get out were the people who wanted something there, and wanted something, you know, financial, a financial -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: We have some folks from FDOT here. Or maybe even Gavin can respond to that. My understanding is there have been some proposals and some projections about different scenarios that could happen, but I don't know that we have anything concrete at this point -- MR. JONES: No. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- until everything is approved. MR. JONES: No, that would come later in the process, the decision of what the final footprint would look like. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And I think the point there is those folks who would be most affected obviously should be a part of that process as that unfolds, but we just haven't got to that part yet. MS. GENNIS: I hope they knock on my door. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, ma'am? MS. ANDERSON: My name is Mary Anderson. O-N. And you talk about you're all for this. Do any of you live in this area? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I do. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Tim does. MS. ANDERSON: No, excuse me, but I believe you're building on Oaks Boulevard. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah, I am. But I don't -- MS. ANDERSON: So that would be Vanderbilt, correct? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I live in Golden Gate. I don't have Page 12 May 20, 1999 any structure anywhere else. May I end up at Exit 17 some day? Sure. But having been here for 12 years, I probably have a reasonably good understanding of the needs of the Golden Gate community. MS. ANDERSON: But the traffic today on Golden Gate Parkway, I'm very nervous. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: That's okay. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Don't be. MS. ANDERSON: The traffic on Golden Gate Parkway is extensive, especially as certain hours; early in the morning and in the afternoon. What you propose to do by putting in on/off ramps on 75 at that area is only going to make traffic worse. Because it is a direct route to the hospital, for one thing; it is a direct route to the City of Naples; it's closer than going through Pine Ridge or going along Davis Boulevard. So you're going to bring more traffic into that area. That area now at times seems like it needs six lanes. What are we going to wind up with, eight lanes? I'm a very concerned homeowner. I've been there for 20 years, you know, I've seen a lot of changes. But it's been very moderate along the Parkway. Now you're talking about doing this, and it's a very residential area. We have children, we have grandchildren, and we now have -- we went from a skating rink into a very bad area. I don't even want to discuss it, because the traffic from that, the people have to come down to our street to turn around when they're coming out of the bingo hall, or -- you know, it's terrible, you know. And this I feel is really going to play a lot of havoc on a lot of homeowners in that area. My grandchild gets the bus at that corner. And the traffic is going to be a lot worse. And I've seen children crossing the street there. Now, I really feel that this is going to bring more traffic along that Parkway and a lot more concern for the residents as far as on/off ramps. What's -- how bad is 75? I mean, you don't have a lot of accidents in that area on 75. People go to Pine Ridge or they go to 951. You see what's happened to Pine Ridge alone. You 'had to put in the traffic lights because people couldn't get off, people couldn't get on. It's a very industrial area. I'm afraid that you're going to turn Golden Gate Parkway into too much commercial and hurt the homeowners. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let me try to respond to that. First of all, Golden Gate Parkway isn't going to turn commercial, I don't believe. I can't resist pointing out I voted against the bingo hall there, and I regret that it's there, because I agree with you, I don't think it's the appropriate use there. You're in kind of a unique position having been there 20 years. You've seen a ton of change in that 20 years. And the fact is, though, you've made some of the case why the interchange is probably a necessity, and that is when you say it is closer and more direct to the hospital or to the city or to other things. When we talk about what is one of the major roadways of Collier County, Golden Gate Parkway. And if you can make a direct route for Page 13 May 20, 1999 thousands of people to the hospital on what is an existing major roadway, that -- we need to do that. And I realize -- MS. ANDERSON: But the major roadway that you're talking about is a residential roadway. It is -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No, it isn't. And that's the unfortunate thing. There are some residences on it, but Golden Gate Parkway -- let me try to respond to your question -- MS. ANDERSON: Is Golden Gate Parkway considered residential or commercial? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Neither one. It's an arterial. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Neither. We have -- MS. GENNIS: It's residential from the Parkway west. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: There are residences there, but there are different categories of roads. If you go out here, for example, and drive back behind the apartment complex across the street, those are residential streets. Golden Gate Parkway is considered an arterial. An arterial that carries people to and from work, to and from shopping, to and from wherever they're going. But while there are residences on that, it is not considered a residential street. So I understand, if you have a home there, the frustration and the concern. And you're right, there is in the long-term plan expected to be six lanes there as opposed to the four. And I wouldn't be real enthused about that if I lived there either. However, it is not a residential street. It is designed -- MS. ANDERSON: Is it considered -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- and intended to carry thousands of people every day to and from work, to and from commerce. MS. ANDERSON: Okay. Is it considered residential from Santa Barbara to Airport Road? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No. MS. GENNIS: It's estate zoning, but that's residential. It's still for residents. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Let me just try to get this, because the zoning alongside the sides of the road is one thing, but the question is what is the function of this road, and it's classified as an arterial. Arterials are the major roadways for transportation in this county. It's not commercial residential but, frankly, it doesn't lend itself to residential. A major arterial road is as close to a, you know, local highway as we have. That's what it's designated right now. And, you know, frankly, this is the first time I've heard that there was anything other than just real enthusiasm and a lot of support for the interchange. And I'm not suggesting that a couple of folks here tonight changes that, but I just want you to know, I've heard a tremendous amount of support for what Commissioner Constantine's been doing there as far as trying to get that interchange. MS. ANDERSON: I realize that -- MS. GENNIS: Well, you have -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: I can't let you talk off the microphone, because the court reporter. Page 14 May 20, 1999 COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Excuse me, this is not your meeting now. If you want to talk, you're going to have to follow the rules, okay? Okay. MS. ANDERSON: I realize that a lot of people are for this. But a lot of people that are for this do not live in that area. They're looking for an easy way home or an easy way to work. I'm looking at traffic. You know, that's my main concern. And safety. The way 75 is today, you have a ramp that goes over it on the Parkway, you have two streets, two major streets there. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yeah, I think we're familiar with that. But you know what you're ignoring is that a lot of traffic that would normally use Golden Gate Parkway and go down to Airport Road to go either north or south can now be syphoned off here as well. So it's going to take some traffic off as well as maybe putting some on. And I don't know if Gavin could -- has run a projection on what the net effect is going to be, but certainly there's a lot of traffic that's going to be going off of Golden Gate Parkway onto this roadway. That's the whole point of it. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: But at the same time I'll just say -- and that's absolutely true. But the reason we're here is because we don't often get to hear from you guys, and so we appreciate you being here and telling us how you feel about it. That's why we came to your community in the evening, so you could tell us. So, I mean, we appreciate the input. Are there other comments on the -- yes, sir, if you'd come up to the microphone, we have a lady coming up right now. MS. BEST: My name is Virginia Best, B-E-S-T. I have no doubt that there will be an interchange. It's been coming. I've lived there for 21 years. I knew it was going to be there ultimately. At this point, once again, getting back to this gentleman, I know that you don't have any definite time frames that you can give; however, you must have some ballpark thoughts as to once it passes the Federal Highway Administration, which it will, when you will begin -- I believe there's -- is there not four phases? Is there a traffic study, then an engineering study? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Take us through that, Gavin. MS. BEST: I would be interested to know those phases. MR. JONES: Yeah, this would be the preliminary design and engineering phase. MS. BEST: Okay. MR. JONES: And then there's right-of-way acquisition. There's -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Tell us -- MR. JONES: -- a design -- there's a design phase during which there will be a public participation process, and that is the phase in which the ultimate -- the final footprint will be determined, and that will be -- MS. BEST: And that is prior, of course, to the acquisition phase; is that correct? MR. JONES: And then there's a right-of-way acquisition phase, and then there's a -~ Page 15 May 20, 1999 CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Gavin, tell us -- MR. JONES: -- construction phase. All of those phases are programmed -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Gavin, tell us basically, the design phase lasts about how long? MR. JONES: Two years. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: And then the acquisition phase would typically -- MR. JONES: Two years. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Two years. And then -- MS. BEST: Oh, okay. So we're looking -- MR. JONES: Two years, yeah, typically. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: So from the Florida Highway -- Federal Highway Administration approval -- I can't seem to get that right -- sounds like six years from then is a good estimate. MS. BEST: So the acquisition phase would be actually four years. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, ma'am. That's the way I -- that's the way I -- MS. BEST: Ballpark. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: -- that's the way -- be completed in four. MS. BEST: Ballpark. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: As a ballpark. MS. BEST: Okay, thank you very much. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, sir, if you would, come on over -- yes, sir, please come up. MR. BAHANOVICH: I don't want to dominate this meeting, but I'm very happy to be here with all of you, and particularly members of the Board of Commission. I don't know if there's a Chairperson there of the commission. The last I appeared in a formal setting, when I delivered invocation before Wayne County commissioners in Detroit, Michigan. I have lived on west coast going on five years on. East coast, I used to live in Hollywood approximately six years when my wife still was employed by Southern Bell at the time. Now she retired. A number of Bell companies. Our first residence was at the post office box when we lived approximately six months in Hollywood -- Holiday Inn in Naples. And we have followed the traffic pattern. And I don't know, it's probably not a popular thing, but having a home room (phonetic) like some have talked, like Golden Gate, since when we lived at Sapphire Lakes, and to have more control of their domestic affairs here. It's getting too large for the county to take care. Just like when we had over a year ago an accident -- not our fault -- on the U.S. 41 near Pine Ridge. And they couldn't determine whether it was part of the county or a city limits of Naples. And they've been expanding the lanes. And of course a shortage of deputies to enforce it. You know, I think that has a great deal to do with, you know, at least abiding the speed that they have set. Some have ignored that then. And that contributes to the great concerns which the lady discussed about her grandchildren and so on going to'school. Page 16 May 20, 1999 Fortunately our two sons and daughters have grown up already. One in the graduate program, wants to be high school math teacher. She's up in New York City. So I predicted, for example, after Vanderbilt when our son was attending the University of Florida, that they would probably put the eventually traffic light like Immokalee. There is no on the -- was that Oaks Boulevard? And sure enough, there was a sign -- put the traffic light. And also now on the Vanderbilt. So some -- and so in some instances where you can alleviate by putting some traffic lights and maybe breakers and so on, but obviously the enforcement and population growth is so tremendous, and yet, I don't think we have enough law enforcement there to keep it -- keep the pace with it. And of course my personal feeling is that the home room -- nothing like a home room Town Hall like which this county was -- as Commissioner Timothy Constantine comes being from New England, that part of the country, can appreciate having this kind of town house setting. So when I have lived in an eastern New York village, where you had this opportunity to express their feelings. So I think in Golden Gate particularly, I think they're big enough that they almost can have their back and tell them what they want to do, you know. (Phonetic). But the county's getting too large, just strictly being governed by the Board of Commissioners. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you, sir. And we had another speaker. MR. BRIGHAM: My name is Mike Brigham. B-R-I-G-H-A-M. I wanted to ask a couple questions. I think 90 some percent of Collier County population is in favor of another exchange. By putting the traffic lights there at that intersection from the get-go, that will slow traffic going down. Most of the residential stuff is east of the interchange. The folks using that interchange, the majority of them are going to be heading into town, right? They'll be like two-thirds probably going into town, and one-third coming out here, which may or may not have a huge impact on it, correct? MR. JONES: Correct, yes. Yeah, the volumes will be heavier on Golden Gate Parkway to the west of the interchange than to the east. MR. BRIGHAM: Okay. Is it all right if I ask a question on another issue? I wanted to make a couple of points, actually. I think as long as we're changing county managers, I think we should go to a voting system where we vote in our county manager and let the gentleman stay here for another year until we get a vote and set up an election and vote somebody in. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: I appreciate that. (Applause.) CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: I'm going to ask you, though, to talk just about this 1-75 issue, and then at the end we'll have general comments on any topic you want. MR. BRIGHAM: Thank you. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: You know, Mike, you might be interested to know that I -- I don't know if anybody listened to me, but at the MPO Page 17 May 20, 1999 meeting not long ago, I suggested that we make this interchanges from now on as much as we can in a cloverleaf fashion where you don't have any traffic lights. Because I agree with you, if you put up traffic lights on your arterial there, you're going to cause that much delay that's not necessary, if you have the ability and the room and the wherewithal to go ahead and put in a cloverleaf system to begin with. MR. BRIGHAM: That sounds like a good idea. The other thing that can be done that's done in other metropolitan areas, they drop the speed limit down in that section. You know, they could drop it down to 35 or something ridiculous, and that way folks would be going slow just through that one section. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: So then the people doing 60 would be going 25 over the limit, right? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Exactly. Yes, ma'am. MS. KRIER: Good evening, commissioners. Ellie Krier, for the record. And welcome to my neighborhood. I don't normally see you out here, and I fit in. Maybe next time you come to visit, you could dress down for all the rest of us. As I always do, I like to go on the record to let you know that the support is there for the interchange; not only with the Chamber EDC coalition, but also, we work very, very closely -- and Mr. Arthur is here with the Golden Gate Chamber of Commerce, the Golden Gate Civic Association is on record. And has mailed their letters up to Federal Highway, as well as FDOT, and the Estates Association. And we will continue to do that. We've been asked now to do another set of letters addressing the next criteria questions that have come from Federal Highway. We go to Tallahassee, I'm sure we will go again. Our trip this spring did discover that they weren't aware of the depth -- as many of you who were at the MPO meeting when I told you this. They weren't aware of the depth of the improvements we had done. And I think the thing that we should probably hold out in this community is we need to reserve this interchange as a gateway to both Naples and Golden Gate. It is not a commercial opportunity, it's not intended as that. It's intended as a gateway to the center of our -- where we live. And we need to make sure that the community -- as I know Commissioner Constantine is looking forward toward design standards, that we get the community involved in designing what it should look like in the future. And as Gavin has alluded to, we have plenty of time, but let's do it right and start it now. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you. Other comments on the 1-75 issue? Yes, ma'am. And if you'd come on up to this microphone, it would keep up a little -- going a little faster. MS. JOHNSON: I thought I'd wait till last, but nevertheless. I thought Mr. Constantine was my representative the last time I came up to oppose the bingo hall. Then he said no -- his office said no, Mr. Hancock was. So I went to Mr. Hancock. He wouldn't claim me either. We're in unit 29. Then I find out after Mr. Hancock left, and didn't Page 18 May 20, 1999 know he was my representative, that we got Mr. Carter. So Mr. Carter is now my representative. You better get used to me, because I've been going to the commission for 25 years. What amazes me is that nobody in here knows that that 1-75 interchange was at Golden Gate Parkway. In 1973, when they said build the 1-75, I lived there before they thought of it. They were going to put it on Golden Gate Parkway. That bothered me a little bit. Is that too close to me, are they going to run over me, are they going to take my land away from me, what's going to happen? But amazing, they bought up all the land off of Airport Road on Pine Ridge Road. It didn't go any farther than Airport Road. If you went on that road, you had to go on a gravel road down underneath the trees. There was nothing there. But suddenly all that land was bought up, and they moved the interchange from Golden Gate Parkway to Pine Ridge Road, which is four miles north of Naples. If you get off at 15, you're a mile and a half south of Naples. You're nowhere in Naples. Well, is this good or is this bad? So I planted all my trees. Think I'm fortunate. Now they come along. Now, he is speaking for the county, right, when he's saying what the county's going to do? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, ma'am. MS. JOHNSON: I've already spoken to the state and to the federal government. And he is telling me you haven't started anything yet, right? Then why -- I went to get my hair done one day, I came home, they put a big pipe in my ditch and dumped all the dirt in as though they're making a driveway into my front lawn. They never asked me. I don't know why. I've tried to call. I used to call Mr. Archibald. I couldn't get him. I don't know why yet. I thought, you mean they're going to start something on that and not even ask me? When the federal government came down here two and a half years ago, I went up, because they said they were going to put in a street behind my house. Tell that to people out at 64th Street. Well, it was, you've got to be kidding. He said no. I said, "You mean you're going to make me an island.? Because the state's going to make it in front and you're going to make it in back. He said, "Well, that's easement." I said, "No, it isn't." "Well, you gave them the maps." I said, "That is no easement. That easement was vacated long ago. My neighbor has his driveway and garage on it." Since then the church asked for permission to build another building that's in the middle of the block there, and they build it right on the lot line on the 30-foot easement, which is really against the law. That wasn't vacated. Now, when you say what do you know about it? I've been speaking for my unit for 25 years. And I own the land since '64. Since Gulf American first sold it. And I got every map for the place. Now, we were residential, single family, until '74. You changed the provisional use when everyone wanted up out here. I'm up there fighting like mad. Otherwise, we would have had the mental health Page 19 May 20, 1999 clinic, the Shriners clubhouse, the National Boat Club, seven more churches, the bridge club, the water treatment plant, which we got. Mr. Weimer gave us that, and the JC's, which neither one are provisional. And we got the skating rink. And the mini mall, when you said you wanted to change it to a flea market. That's a joke, it was a flea market when it started. Now -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Now, we're -- you know what our subject is, is the interchange there. Is any of this going to relate to the interchange at all? MS. JOHNSON: You bet it is. Because you know it is. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I don't know so far. I haven't heard a word about it. MS. JOHNSON: They have been fighting me. The old lady on the corner who wants to make money, and I've been fighting all these years to keep it residential. And I have done a lot about that. I am tired fighting. I'm getting too darned old, to tell you the truth. But I'll be in there turning the knife all the time for what's right. Now, you know they're going to make it commercial. There's no way you can keep from it. Now, they wanted that road out, I said the best place to put it, and it is, down against Wyndemere. Well, they got 75 foot there. Make the road all the way through Livingston. It's going to be a north-south highway. Then we won't be dead end streets. They thanked me very much. I got three letters from the Federal Government for helping. So it's not that I don't try to help. But nevertheless, when they come along, how much is the state going to take to make six lanes in front of my house? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: We don't know that yet. MS. JOHNSON: All right. Neither does DOT, when I -- they can't tell me. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's right. MS. JOHNSON: Are you going to turn around and take it all off one side again? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Ma'am, one thing that I have understood from tonight is that there will be a two-year long process when the design -- there will be all the public hearings to say exactly to answer those questions. And honestly, we can't answer them tonight, because we just don't know. MS. JOHNSON: That's why I came. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, ma'am. MS. JOHNSON: It says an update. All right, from what I have as an update from the state and the federal, you haven't gone any farther than you were before. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Sounds kind of like that. MS. JOHNSON: Okay. Then you didn't know they dumped all that dirt in my ditch. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: I personally didn't. Do you know anything about that, Gavin? MR. JONES: About? MS. JOHNSON: I don't know what it is. All I -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: We have some more speakers. Are you going Page 20 May 20, 1999 to wrap it up? MS. JOHNSON: -- know, it's three foot higher than the rest. And since we had the rain, it's a mess. But you haven't started anything, that's what I wanted to know. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, ma'am. MS. JOHNSON: And when it is an update, you're going to let me know? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: You bet. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes. (Applause.) CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: You guys have a real -- I'm sorry, ma'am, I should know your name by now, but I don't. MS. JOHNSON: Dorothy Johnson. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Dorothy Johnson. And you guys have a really worthy advocate in Ms. Johnson. She never fails to show up. Yes, ma'am? MS. PRICE: My name is Susan Price, and I live out in the estate area, close to the donut. And while I think we do need some access roads through, I don't think it necessarily has to be 75 that needs to be open. But before you propose anything else, I would suggest, following Ms. Johnson here, that you do your surveys and stuff, and before you come in and tell people you want to do something, that you come in with a complete plan and not some just wild hair up the wall thing that you don't know what you're doing. That's been part of the problem with the government all along here in Collier County. They start things, they don't know what they're doing, then they run into problems that cost people money, and they've been totally unprepared for anything that's happened. So all we ask is before you change lives and land that you make a complete study and find out even if it's really feasibility to do so. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you, ma'am. (Applause.) COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think that's a very valid point, and I just want to reiterate what both staff and Chair has said, and that is it's going to be a two-year process with public input, with an opportunity for everyone who is directly impacted to have a say in that outcome. And the idea tonight is to tell you where we are so far, and tell you there are a lot of answers we don't have so far. But to make sure you know that that process is going to unfold and that you will have that opportunity to get involved. Because we don't -- as she said, we don't want it to just be a wild hair, you know, crazy idea. We want to make sure it's put together in a logical manner that has the least impact on those folks. And Ms. Dunavan was concerned before with how it was going to impact some of the locals. And the toughest part of our job is balancing -- I mean, there are probably no more than a couple of dozen, maybe three dozen homes up and down the Parkway. And trying to balance the needs of those folks who have been there, especially those Page 21 May 20, 1999 who have been there for 20 years, 21 years, with the literally tens of thousands of people who use that as their primary access to get to and from work or to and from the hospital, or wherever they're going. And so don't think for a minute we're not sympathetic to those who are being directly impacted by this. That's why we're here and talking about it now. And it's also why we're going to go through a long, detailed process. But we're trying to balance all that out and come up with what's the best for everybody. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, sir? MR. MAGHER: Ward Magher. M-A-G-H-E-R. I was wondering if there's any plans on the drawing board right now for any future interchanges along 1-75 and Collier County. MR. JONES: No, sir, that's the only one. And that was the only one of two that made it through an interchange -- or an interstate master plan process that looked at -- that looked at 1-75 from the southern edge of Hillsborough County down to County Road 951. And there were lots of people who wanted interchanges on 1-75 in between those two limits, but Golden Gate Parkway and one other to the north in Lee County were the only two that, you know, justified at that level of analysis sufficient need to go on to the next step, which is where DOT is now. MR. MAGHER: Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you, sir. Another speaker? MR. BRIGHAM: Quick question. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: We're going to ask you to -- MR. BRIGHAM: Mike Brigham. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: -- try to just give one on each shot, if you would. MR. BRIGHAM: Is there a possibility of putting that interchange on a fast track, instead of taking six years? Is there any way to get the slow motion? Can you lobby and do anything? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: You know what the answer was? I asked that question at an MPO meeting of the state secretary of transportation for our area, and he said, "Well, Commissioner Mac'Kie, that is the fast track." COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, which we laugh, but, I mean, it goes right back to the previous speakers. There's a reason why it takes as long as it does, so that we don't have, as the woman said, some wild-haired idea. We want to make sure it is very carefully planned and done correctly. And it takes a couple of years to do that planning and having the input from the public. And after that, it takes a couple of years to physically buy up that land and do your engineering. You can't just magically roll bulldozers out there tomorrow. So it takes a long time, and that's frustrating for everybody. But there's a reason why it takes that amount of time. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah, my name is Michael Anderson. A-N-D-E-R-S-O-N. Yeah, my only concern is for the kids in the area. I live on 66th, and I've been there for 20 years. And they are -- on my street along, just for the grammar school, there's got to be 12 kids. Page 22 May 20, 1999 Now, when you put the bypass in, as you say you will, are you going to put an easement off to the side so the bus can pull over and let the kids off for safety? Or is it no safety concern for the kids? Because when you come off 1-75, you're doing 70 miles an hour. They're going to come off and you're going to expect them to slow down to a 20 mile -- 25 mile roadway and get behind a bus and come over the bridge? You come over that bridge going towards town, most people are doing 60 miles an hour. And it's ridiculous as it is now to even think about putting a ramp there and having a bus come and drop kids off without having some kind of easement over to the side, what you need. And when you put that bingo -- another thing is, when you put that bingo hall in -- you say you think about planning things. Why isn't there no U-turn on the corner of 66th Street? Because at 3:00 when that bingo hall gets out, that traffic is terrible, and people are making U-turns there, and nobody give a damn. You people approved the bingo hall. Didn't have no idea how they was going to get across the road. So they go up to the first street and make a U-turn. How about putting a sign there, for one thing? Can we do that? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: It's certainly something we can give to our transportation staff to consider and make recommendations, unless there's some obvious answer already to that question. MR. ANDERSON: Is there an answer why there isn't one? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Mr. Kant, do you want to comment on that? Gavin is with the Metropolitan Planning Organiza -- you don't really care about this, but he's technically with a different agency and -- MR. ANDERSON: Does he work for the Florida Highway Department? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: No. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: No, sir. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: He works for us. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: He works for us. Just a subset of -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: He's the road king. MR. ANDERSON: The road king, huh? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: And now Mr. Kant is the transportation director and would deal with that kind of a question. MR. KANT: Edward Kant, transportation services director. You're talking about 66th off the Parkway? MR. ANDERSON: Uh-uh. MR. KANT: Okay. As far as whether or not that's appropriate for a U-turn, yes, it is appropriate for a U-turn, because there are turning bays there. However -- MR. ANDERSON: Have you tried to make a U-turn there? MR. KANT: I'm trying to answer your question, sir. However, we will ask our staff to go back and take a look at that and see if we should make some modification. I don't know, and I'm not going to give you an answer that I can't rely on. But we will go back and take a look at it. MR. ANDERSON: Because when you're coming down one side and see on the other side, you can't see the cars coming at you. They want to make the U-turn. They're coming out into the far right in order to Page 23 May 20, 1999 make that turn. MR. KANT: We'll have some of our staff take a look at it, and if CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Mr. Kant, if I could, if I could ask you to give your phone number to Mr. Kant after they have looked at it so he can 'get back in touch with you and tell you what the staff has figured out about that, but I'm going to try to keep us back on the 1-75 question. But now you've got the guy here to talk to about that U-turn, so don't lose the opportunity to trade phone numbers. MR. ANDERSON: And on 1-75, like I said, when they put the ramp in, are they going to put an easement off to the side so they can let the kids off the bus, or is it going to be a straight road? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: And the answer to that is you're going to have to show up at those hearings that go on four two years -- MR. ANDERSON: Because they -- at Pine Ridge Road? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: No, sir, because -- no, sir. When the hearings -- you know that two years' worth of planning and design we talked about? That's when those decisions will be made. Not by us and not tonight. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Can those be designed? Yeah. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Sure they can. So show up and be sure they're not forgotten when that process is going on. MR. ANDERSON: Well, that's why you write things down, then people forget. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you. MR. ANDERSON: Especially government. MR. CAMBRIDGE: My name is Herbert Cambridge, I live on Golden Gate Parkway, about two throws from Mrs. Johnson. My concern is safety. I wouldn't deliver mail on that street -- I mean, if I was the post office, I'd shut down mail, because I've seen about five mailmen almost lose their lives; the cars stopping and screeching tires and when the car stop right behind the mail truck. Waste Management, I wouldn't pick up garbage either, because a car stopped six inches when the guy stopped to pick up the container. You know, he got a truck that stops and picks up the containers. He's almost in the right lane -- hand lane when he pass my house. So I don't know what -- we're just waiting to bury someone. What could I tell you about the mailmen and the Waste Management people? My other concern is what's going to happen -- where is Livingston Road going? Is it going across the -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: You want to go ahead and give us the quick MR. CAMBRIDGE: There more than likely have to be a traffic light there, I'm pretty sure -- MR. JONES: Yes. MR. CAMBRIDGE: -- to slow things down. Okay. And what about the golf course? Is anything going to be in connection with that? Are they building a -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: The Grey Oaks. Page 24 May 20, 1999 MR. CAMBRIDGE: -- golf course? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Isn't it Grey Oaks? COMMISSIONER BERRY: No, no, no, no, no, no. MR. CAMBRIDGE: Is there going to be a -- there won't be a light there, probably. MS. BEST: An overpass. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: It's where Hyzinga's building his hotel and golf course, right? MS. GENNIS: And Grey Oaks golf courses are there. They had two and another entranceway. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Does anybody know the answer to that? And again, we're getting off our 1-75. I've got to -- MR. KANT: There are -- Edward Kant, transportation services. There are several -- going to be several new accesses to what used to be called the Geits (phonetic) pit on the south side of the road. There will be a traffic signal at Livingston and Golden Gate Parkway, and there will be another one roughly halfway between there and Airport Road, but I can't give you the timing on that, because that will be driven by the development. MR. CAMBRIDGE: So this will cease to be an arterial. I mean, it won't be a fast-track way to town, once you put all those traffic lights in there. So that's -- if I'm understanding you correctly. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: They still have a lot less than Pine Ridge Road. MR. CAMBRIDGE: Okay. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: And I am going to try one more time to get us -- because our next topic is general transportation improvements -- MR. CAMBRIDGE: Okay. I wanted to warn the people here and the County Commissioners to watch this. I own the six acres where they built the curve on 1-75 heading towards Miami off of -- it was zoned multi-family. The County Commissioners changed the zoning to single family. So they took $100,000 out of my pocket in one swipe like that. So if you're going to do something like that in connection with this, let us know ahead of time, because I lost a fortune with that. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, sir. Thank you. Are there other 1-75 comments? Because the next topic really is general transportation services. Yes, ma'am. MS. BURGESON: Hi. Barbara Burgeson, for the record. I live off 66th Street. What Mike said is extremely a serious concern. Golden Gate Parkway's got an unusual situation with all the buses. As the buses come down and you have the elementary, you have the middle school, you have the high school. They come down -- they come to a complete stop at every street. 70, 68th, 66th, 64th. Going over and coming back on the south and the north side of the Parkway. They do that two or three times every day, three sets of buses coming to a complete stop. It's dangerous. I've seen buses -- not buses, but I've seen because of traffic there the kids -- I mean, we're out there with the kids, but it's still hard to keep track of them as they're playing. I'm concerned about a ramp coming off there without some special Page 25 May 20, 1999 warning or some -- if there's not a change to accommodate those buses, that there be some -- at least a stoplight or that there be some sort of signs or something, because people -- I've never come off of 1-75 directly into a neighborhood similar to this. It really slows down and it functions like a neighborhood, even though it's an arterial road that goes right through it. Two other things: I've spoken with the state about this road. They said that there is the ability -- they're right now designing what they call very low impact ramps. It's designed to reduce or to inhibit commercial activities at those interstate interchanges, to discourage them, to keep the area as residential. And one thing that they said as a part of that program or plan is that either the state or the county or in conjunction with grants, that the property that's purchased adjacent to those ramps, which I guess are designed very close to the highways, that property is purchased and not developed, but purchased and put into park or put into green space or put into something so that it doesn't go commercial and it tries to keep the neighborhood as close to what it was. I'm 100 percent against 1-75 interchange, but I don't think that it's going to stop it. So as long as we can -- and I think there's probably -- I don't know how many people are here that are against it. But everyone that I've talked to in my neighborhood is strongly against it. So if there's anyway way -- and I know the county probably isn't going to have as much input in the design as FDOT will, but FDOT is not going to have as much input in possibly what could be rezoned or what could be done to help to preserve the neighborhood. That's all. Thanks. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Two thoughts with that. One, and I've said this before several times publicly, but FDOT actually is the easiest state agency to work with as far as the county's concerned. And so as far as trying to make those two issues work together, I have some level of comfort. Because you're right, the zoning type things fall upon us. Ultimately, while we have input, you all will have the input, some of the design things will fall upon them. But I have a great deal of confidence that they'll work with us very well there. I just need to correct one thing. I have to respectfully disagree with the Chair, that Mr. Anderson, it's not your responsibility to show up at that meeting. We've noted that. I suspect some of our staff has noted that. I'd encourage you to show up, but the item in the issue has been noted and we'll address that accordingly. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Very good point. Very good point. You're right, absolutely. Item #2B1 REPORT TO THE BOARD ON THE STATUS OF ONGOING WORK PERFORMED BY THE Page26 May 20, 1999 TRANSPORTATION SERVICES DEPARTMENT IN THE GOLDEN GATE AREA If there are no other speakers on the 1-75 interchange, we can go on and have a report on the status of ongoing work -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: One shot at the apple. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: No, no, ma'am, I'm sorry, we'll get there. You'll get a general comments at the end. You'll get another chance to talk. Report to the board on the status of ongoing work performed by transportation services in the Golden Gate area. MR. KANT: Thank you, commissioners. My name's Edward Kant. I'm the transportation services director. The phone number at our office is 774-8494. The phone number at the road and bridge department for maintenance and repair issues is 774-8925. This year so far we finished our overlay program. We've done about 15 miles of road overlays. We've paved six of eight lime rock roads. We're just finishing up two others. Going back to an item that was mentioned a little earlier, we've begun the rural safety refuge program. We got a grant from the Golden Gate land trust and we're installing 10 of them. I believe one will go at the intersection of Golden Gate Parkway and 66th. These were the locations where -- I can't give you the other nine off the top of my head, but if you'll call the office, I'll be glad to give you that information. These were chosen -- we worked very closely with the school transportation department in determining exactly where every single child who gets bused lives so that we could come up with the 10 highest locations. That is where the number -- where we had the 10 most children congregating in the morning and afternoon. I think when these test sites get done -- the reason we're doing them just 10 now is first of all funding, but also, we're trying a few different arrangements. These little shelters are probably about, oh, 10-by-10. They'll have a solid floor that will be an asphalt or concrete surface. There'll be an overhead shelter so they'll be out of the rain. There'll be a bike rack. There will be a park bench type bench, and there will be a trash can. And they will be arranged so that when the children are waiting there, they will have to consciously walk around from behind the shelter to get out in the street. So there won't be running back and forth between the shelter and the street, the shelter and the street. We're arranging the bike rack and the bench so that those two sides are cut off from the street. That's one program. Ultimately we hope to try to get, over the next few years, as many of these as we can. I think that if the school board had their way, they'd like to see one at every corner. I'm not sure we can accommodate that. But we're looking at that program as being -- we believe is going to be very successful. The Immokalee Road shoulder program is off to a good start. I invite you sometime, if you don't have regular reason to travel Immokalee Road, I know a lot of people don't like it, it's not a very Page 27 May 20, 1999 pleasant road to travel, but we hope over the next few years that we're going to change that aspect of it. We've begun on the segment between Wilson Boulevard and 858 where G's Store is, we've put new shoulders in. And you will notice that we've widened it out and we've added a lot more what we call reflective pavement markers or RPM's, and a lot more paint so that your headlights pick it up and it's a lot brighter out there. We have a number of other programs that we're working on that don't show up in that little agenda, but if you don't mind, commissioners, I'd -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Please. MR. KANT: -- like to brief people on some of the other things we're doing. We had a request that we're following through for some street lights at the intersection of Golden Gate Boulevard, and Wilson and Golden Gate Boulevard and Everglades. We also had a request for Golden Gate and DeSoto; however, we don't have any electricity out there within a quarter of a mile. So we're kind of struggling with how we're going to get street lights at that intersection, but we're not giving up yet. We have a number of signals that are going to be completed in this year's program. And then we have some new traffic signals that we will be presenting to the board within the next month for next fiscal year. This year we're going to be completing a signal at 44th and the Parkway out here to help ease the school crossing. There is also a major intersection improvement at Immokalee and Wilson. I know a lot of people will be very happy to hear that. But let me give you the other side of the coin. While we're building that, it's not going to be pleasant up there. We have to -- there's a box culvert immediately to the west of the intersection, and we have to extend it 20 some feet on either end in order to get the appropriate travel lanes in, in order to get the signal in, so that it makes that intersection a lot safer. It's also going to be a very expensive intersection to upgrade. Between the signal and the box culvert work and the paving and some other underground work, we're going to spend well over $200,000 in that intersection. Next year we're looking at several other intersections. We haven't prioritized these yet, and I can't tell you what the extent of our funding's going to be, but obviously by October 1st we'll know. Among the intersections we're looking at, we're looking at Logan and Vanderbilt. If anybody's been up there recently, you'll notice that we installed a four-way stop sign. That big red sign with the letters S-T-O-P means stop. It doesn't mean slow down to about 25 miles an hour, see what's going on. We had a lot of problems when we first installed it. We had the sheriff out there. I want to publicly thank the sheriff for helping us get a little order up there. I came through on my way in tonight. I purposely went up and we did around the loop, and there's plenty of advanced warning, and it stands out well, and I'll go home tonight in the dark and hopefully it Page 28 May 20, 1999 will stand out in the dark. We've added new pavement markings, so that intersection should stand out. That four-way stop is a precursor to a signal. We've had a very bad crash history up there. And there's a problem now that they have the fourth leg open, so we are going to signalize that. Let me rephrase that; we're going to recommend that that be signalized. We're also recommending that Vineyards and Vanderbilt Beach be signalized, in conjunction with the signal we put up last year at Oaks and Vanderbilt Beach. Again, that will help ease the school issue at the corner for the Vanderbilt Elementary School -- I mean the Vineyards Elementary School, excuse me. And one other I do want to mention that has come to our attention; we've gotten a lot of inquiries about it. And I know everybody that has to go in that area is very interested, and that would be at Immokalee and Randall. It's only a half a mile from Wilson, it's in a very bad location, you've got a double curve, you're got 4th Street Northeast that comes down only 200 feet or 300 feet from the intersection. That's going to be a very interesting engineering problem to solve, little lone a traffic problem. So again, we're going to try to get that in in the next fiscal year. Let me tell you a little bit about some of the roads. I know that -- I imagine that most people in this room were concerned with Golden Gate Boulevard. As you're probably aware, we've had some setbacks. There was some questions about designing and redesigning about a year ago. That issue got resolved. We had an issue with the City of Naples Utilities. They had a raw water main than will come down along the right -- in the right-of-way, and we have to design around that, basically. And in working out those issues, that took a few months. And finally, as we got toward the end, we found we had to acquire additional property for drainage, and so that unfortunately has cost us a few months also. So it looks like we're probably close to a year from beginning that work. One of the things that we're examining is the possibility of breaking it so that we can do the first segment -- I say the -- what I call the first segment, which will be from 951 to the canal, to the Golden Gate Canal, just past the school, so that we can get that out of the way and not have the school disrupted through two school years, only have the disruption through one school year. And again, we're still looking at that at the staff level to decide if that's going to be the most efficient way to do that job. Pine Ridge Road, from Airport Road to Logan Boulevard is another one that's on the list. That schedule we're about half, two-thirds of the way through right-of-way. We're looking at about in August of 2000, which is a little over a year from now start date on that. We've been working with FDOT. Again, that kind of dovetails a little bit with this Golden Gate interchange, because the FHWA has asked us to look at the on/off rampage to 1-75 to perhaps assist in doing something with that rampage as part of our job to help speed that whole project up. And so we're -- we don't have anything concrete yet, but we are working with them Page 29 May 20, 1999 on that. Immokalee Road. That would be the Immokalee Road segment from 1-75 to 951. We -- again, we had some hiccups with the right-of-way and with the design issue. We were trying to get out with that this summer and that's been held up probably till about the first of the year. Two other roadway segments that have recently gotten some attention. Last year -- yes, it was last year, the MPO and the board requested that we take the segment of Immokalee Road from 951 up around to 858 and advance that in the program. Prior to that request, there was no plan to do anything much more with that road than the shoulder program. However, that road is now planned to be four-laned. It will probably be done in two segments. That would be 951 to Wilson and then Wilson to 858. I don't have a schedule, a defined schedule on it yet, but we are committed to design starting this next fiscal year, which will be October of this year, with right-of-way to commence approximately a year later and construction a year after that, assuming we don't run into any snags with right-of-way or drainage issues. Obviously you're aware, you've got the Golden -- not the Golden Gate -- the Immokalee canal and the Cocohatchee River along the north edge of that roadway, and the preliminary indications from the South Florida Water Management District and permitting agencies are that we shouldn't have too great a problem in getting that project permitted. But I believe -- I tend to believe that when I have the permits in my hand and signed. The other one that I want to tell you about is Vanderbilt Beach Road from Airport Road to Logan. Again, we're looking at the possibility of starting a design on the four-laning of that in -- later this year with a right-of-way again about a year later and construction a year after that. In the interim, we are planning to put an asphalt pathway along the south side of Vanderbilt from Naples -- Naples Walk is that new public shopping center at.the corner of Airport and Vanderbilt, and they've got this very nice concrete sidewalk that kind of snakes through the front of their property. And they've done a very nice job with it, but then it stops at their driveway, which is about a quarter of a mile from Airport Road. So we're going to pick up at that driveway and then take that all the way down to the Village Walk entrance on the south side. There is -- on the north side there's also a pathway in front of Wilshire Lakes which goes nowhere in either direction, because there's no connection on the west and there's 1-75 on the east. We've got a lot of questions as to well, why don't we just keep going under 1-757 And again, I invite you to go out there sometime and take a look. You'll notice that the slope and the piers and everything are very, very tight against the edge of the road. And until we can come up with an engineering solution that will be safe, we don't -- as was mentioned a little earlier, we don't want to do anything without thoroughly planning it. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Ed, why don't we pause at this point and see Page 30 May 20, 1999 if we have specific questions about particular roadway segments from members of the audience. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I actually have one question on that last item you talked about on Vanderbilt. We have a number of sidewalk connections, as you said. There's a couple places where they don't connect up. We put in a sidewalk a couple years back on Oaks Boulevard that comes right down to Vanderbilt. There is no connector if you go across the street, either from the park or the school. And what I've heard from a number of folks is, you know, if the kids are coming down on their bikes to go to school or go to the park, they cross Vanderbilt and there is nowhere for them to ride. Do we have with a plan to put that in at some point? MR. KANT: Thank you, Commissioner. Yes, that is a project that we put in this year's capital projects request. Oaks -- that particular segment of Oaks Boulevard, there's a two-mile segment from Vanderbilt to Immokalee Road. Which interestingly enough, we have a 100-foot right-of-way. An anomaly. Typically we only get 60 or 80 feet for right-of-way. But for whatever reason, if you drive down Oaks Boulevard, the actual roadway is skewed. It's on the east side of the right-of-way. So we have quite a bit of right-of-way on the west side, and that's where that pathway that you see is way, way over on the side. But I don't have enough room to put a pathway on the east side because of the road. So what we're going to do in working with our public works engineering department is we're looking at adding a third lane to Oaks Boulevard and then rejiggering what is now the northbound lane into a separator strip and a pathway. I don't know if we're -- there's some engineering we have to do because we've got some drainage issues there. But if we can get that in this year; if not, it will be between this year and next year that we're going to do that. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And I'm sorry, my question, perhaps I wasn't clear, was actually on Vanderbilt, from where Oaks connects to Vineyards Boulevard. There's just an empty space there. Right now, if you live on any of those streets off Oaks Boulevard and you're driving -- riding your bicycle to school in the morning, you can drive all the way south, but once you hit Vanderbilt, you either ride in the road or you walk on the grass. MR. KANT: If my -- I know exactly what you're talking about now, yes, sir. If my memory serves me correctly, I believe that the school board at the time felt that by bringing the children in through an opening through that fence there and bringing them across the campus inside the fence would be preferable to bringing them along the roadway. We have no problem with going back and looking at that again. But that was -- at the time I believe that was done because of that agreement. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you. Let's take a break. (Brief recess.) Page 31 May 20, 1999 Item #2B2 LANDFILL ISSUES STATUS REPORT CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: There we go. If everybody can get back in their seats. We'll take just a minute to settle down, and then we'll move on to the last topic on our agenda tonight -- or the last scheduled topic. Then we want to hear from you on anything else you want to talk about. The last scheduled topic this evening is a status report on the landfill. We have Mr. Ilschner to give us that report. MR. ILSCHNER: Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, commissioners. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. For the record, my name is Ed Ilschner, public works administrator for Collier County. It is also my pleasure to be here this evening to bring you a status report or update on solid Waste Management issues in Collier County. On April the 20th, 1999, we had held an educational forum or workshop for the Board of County Commissioners in which we briefed the County Commissioners on current conditions at the Naples landfill, including details related to the odor problems at that landfill. And also our consultant, Camp, Dresher, McKee that evening shared with the board a comprehensive overview of current solid waste processing alternatives, their cost and associated operational issues. At the conclusion of this workshop, the board members provided comments and direction to the staff and asked the staff to bring back additional information in 60 days, specifically dealing with two areas: One of these areas was options for adding additional capacity at the existing Naples landfill, and the second issue was to look at incineration, either with other counties or with Lee County. A subsequent meeting on April the 27th, 1999, the Board of County Commissioners voted not to continue to acquire a site known as site L. This was a site that had been investigated as a site to move and develop a new landfill at. And the county attorney was directed to dismiss a pending court action that would have allowed us to enter onto site L property and do some surveying. At that particular meeting on April the 20th, we briefed the Board of County Commissioners on issues that resulted in odor development or odor problems at the Naples landfill. One of the issues that we identified, working with our contractor, Waste Management, Incorporated of Florida, was that the existing leachate collection system that exists at that landfill first of all wasn't designed properly to begin with, and because of that, had basically failed and collapsed in many areas, and also had filled with water and therefore was not removing the gasses that were being produced in the landfill. Let me just stop for a moment and tell you that there are two gasses that develop in a landfill. One gas is called methane. Methane is an odorless and a colorless gas. Has no odor, you can't smell it, you can't see it. And that's why gas companies put smell in a methane, so that you'll know you've got a leak in your home if you've got natural gas, where I come back from in Texas. Page 32 May 20, 1999 The other gas produced in a landfill is hydrogen sulfide. And hydrogen sulfide is a gas that smells. And so the odor problem that we've had difficulty removing is both the methane and the hydrogen sulfide because of the leachate collection system. The other matter we discussed at that April 20th workshop was the early closure of Phase I and II of the landfill. This is the current operating phases of the landfill. And the cell that we're working in is called cell six. This cell is a cell that has produced smell or odor at the landfill. And we indicated to the board that one of the options we were going to investigate and bring back to them was the early closure of that cell with a material much like this. This is a 60 mill HDPE liner or membrane material. And when you close a landfill, you cover it with material like this. It's very strong and it doesn't allow anything to go through it; water in or anything out. And then finally we discussed a fan system to prevent odor migration from that landfill. On May the 25th, which will be next Tuesday, we are going to be bringing three items to the board for them to act on. One of those will be of course improvements to the existing leachate collection system and Phase III of cell six, and work that will have to be done on the existing leachate system in the existing two phases. That will be a project for approximately $600,000. This particular project will enable us to more effectively control gas emissions from the landfill and, therefore, odor. We're also going to bring to them a project to effect the early closure of cell six, Phase I and II. That's about 59 acres. That project will cost about 1.87 million dollars. And it will be this material that will placed onto it and completely close off the cell that has been creating the problem, the smell that many of you have smelled over time. And that -- if the board acts on the recommendations that we will make next Tuesday with respect to early closure, we feel that we will have the landfill cell closed by October of 1999, which is earlier than the original 365 days we were projecting. Once we seal the -- that particular cell off in October of '99, we are very confident that there will be no additional smell emanating from that particular cell. And this material will help us do that. And then of course we will also have a fan control system for working odors to ensure they don't migrate from the site. So in conclusion, we think that we have developed a very effective program to resolve the odor issues at the landfill and to operate that landfill in a very efficient, effective manner. We also plan to develop an odor monitoring program. And no, this is not a ghostbusters thing that you saw in the Ghostbuster movie. This is a Jerome 631X hydrogen sulfide gas analyzer. You and I as human beings smell gas -- hydrogen sulfide gas at concentration levels of 8 to 15 parts per billion. This device will measure hydrogen sulfide gas down to one part per billion. Very sensitive. We intend to use this to help eliminate odors and help citizens identify where odors come from. And that will be part of our Page 33 May 20, 1999 program. I'd be happy to answer any questions that I may about what we're doing. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Please come up to the microphones and we'll have questions. That way -- are there questions from board members, as our speakers come forward? And if you would, identify yourself for the record and spell your last name. MR. CHACE: My name is Robert Chace. I'm from Alaska. I'm attempting to become a new resident down here. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Good luck. MR. CHACE: And what I'd like to suggest is -- I didn't hear you mention, but you mentioned trapping the gasses and they can't escape and all that. And of course, methane burns. And when you cap it, are you just going to burn it off like the oil companies do, just burn off the methane because it's burnable and not have to dispose of your odor problem? MR. ILSCHNER: We presently -- yes, sir, we presently do flare off the gas and methane. We're working with several agencies, including Florida Power and Light, to look at tapping that methane gas source, turning it into electricity and operating our water plant with that electricity. MR. CHACE: Okay. That's what I wanted to find out, if you were going to do that. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, sir, thank you. Yes, ma'am. MS. ALBURY: My name is Jane Albury. I'm glad to hear we're going to get some solving, but I'm concerned about whether it's really going to happen. It's been going on for many years and nothing has been accomplished. Like for Commissioner Mac'Kie, last year as a guest speaker at the Golden Gate Civic Association, you said you would help us with the landfill issue. You've done nothing constructive. Last month you voted one way on the density reduction plan, last week you voted the opposite. Now, I realize that women change their minds, but, I mean, this really gives you very little credibility in the political office, just keep changing your mind like that. We don't know where we stand with you. And Commissioner Berry, at a public hearing you said you couldn't rule out expanding the landfill to the 300 acres. At the Estate Civic Association you said you absolutely would not vote to expand. Which is it? COMMISSIONER BERRY: Oh, I'll be happy to tell you. MS. ALBURY: Because there you are, you changed your mind. COMMISSIONER BERRY: No, I haven't changed my mind all. Because the question was in regard to going into the 300 acres to the north. And I'm not interested in expanding into that particular area, okay? MS. ALBURY: Okay. COMMISSIONER BERRY: That's what I'm talking about. MS. ALBURY: And Commissioner Carter, you're very intelligent. You go after the facts. I understand that. But I want to know what Page 34 May 20, 1999 facts concern you about closing the landfill site? Is it the cost? Is it environment? What is it? COMMISSIONER CARTER: I don't want to -- I'm looking at all the options with that landfill, and I have not been convinced yet that we are not doing everything we can, A, to properly utilize that landfill, and if we can use it and get life out of it -- and there's several options, and some that Mr. Ilschner will speak further to -- I will not move the problem. I have been very consistent in that. MS. ALBURY: All right. Is there at any time will you change your mind if certain things come to light? COMMISSIONER CARTER: I'm always open to changing my mind. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Be careful. Be careful now, because you might be criticized for that -- MS. ALBURY: That's for sure. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: -- if you learn something new and change your mind. MS. ALBURY: No, it's the case you -- COMMISSIONER CARTER: I'm a person that will change his mind, but at this point I have not been given any evidence to indicate that I would change my mind from the position that I have stated both -- in all public meetings. MS. ALBURY: Well, I can understand. If the facts prove this way, then you change your mind this way, but if they prove this way, you change it. But unfortunately, as I say, I've had some problems with the credibility of some of our commissioners in the local government, how we can really have any faith in them when they really don't stand back of what they say. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you, ma'am. Excuse me, ma'am. Excuse me. Ma'am, our last speaker? The court reporter didn't get your name. And I apologize. MS. ALBURY: A-L-B-U-R-Y. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you, ma'am. Yes? MS. LASKOWSKI: My name is Dorothy Laskowski, L-A-S-K-O-W-S-K-I. I'm a 16-year resident of Golden Gate, in the condominiums over here. And I too would like -- very happy to invite you to our turf tonight. Of course not Tim, this is his turf. But I would prefer if you had called this meeting at 7:30 this morning where you could walk in here with your container of coffee and your sweet bun and get the same stench that we get every morning when we open our door with our cup of coffee. I'm almost ready to concede about moving the damn site and just ask you, please, get rid of the stench. Tim, we commend you for what you're doing. I'll take my hat off to you, because you're really shoveling sand against the wall, really. But we're here to help you and we will stand behind you, whatever you decide to do. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank, ma'am. Yes, sir? MR. JENKINS: For the record, James Jenkins, J-E-N-K-I-N-S. And Mr. Ilschner, one of the problems that we've had, the stink is a problem that we've really had, but you stated that the methane Page 35 May 20, 1999 gas does not have any odor to it, yet that was the reason a while back that they put this gas management system in. That was the reason that they gave us to put this gas management system in. And we've had all kinds of stories on, you know, what the problem was and everything. What are we going to do whenever -- and I see you've got this detector there now. What is the next promise that we're going to get that we're going to solve this problem whenever this is capped up and we still have this problem? Because there's another odor also, and that is the rotten stink of the garbage. Not to mention the methane and the -- MR. ILSCHNER: Well, it's pretty well known in the industry that well run landfills, with respect to the garbage odor itself, that smell exists only within about 200 yards of the working phase. And that was the purpose also of having the fan technology. I mentioned that on Tuesday the board will consider a proposal to purchase fan technology that will ensure that that odor, although it has very low probability of ever leaving the site, would never leave the site. So we're trying to do everything we can to ensure that when we operate the landfill, there will not be future odor. MR. JENKINS: And what will be our next step whenever we still have a -- if we do have a problem? What's our next step then? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: We have the nuclear option. MR. ILSCHNER: Well, I hope we're going to do a good enough job that we'll make you happy and you'll never have a smell from it again. And we'll try to address that question I guess if that should happen. MR. JENKINS: Okay, thank you. MR. BRIGHAM: Michael Brigham, once again. A while back the county board voted to allow a golf course and four-wheeling track on the surplus property. And I was wondering if this whole discussion is going to delay the process on that. And also, can we get some relief for the kids of Collier County and let us use the four-track -- let them build some tracks through there now while it's going through all this design phase and this endless discussion about moving the fill area. MR. ILSCHNER: I'll call Tom Olliff to address that. MR. OLLIFF: Is this on here? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes. MR. OLLIFF: I can answer directly from here. I'm Tom Olliff, public services administrator. In response to the board's direction to take a look at both the golf course and the ATV, the staff put out what's called a request for proposals for engineers and architectural design firms to come in and do a design for just that, a golf course and an off-road ATV and perhaps BMX track as well. We've gotten proposals in, we've reviewed those, and I think that is scheduled to be in front of the County Commission with direction to contract on June 22nd. MR. BRIGHAM: Great. MR. OLLIFF: So that project's still moving along. In addition to that, there's a public petition request that's been submitted to the County Commission that I believe is on this Page 36 May 20, 1999 coming agenda on -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: It is. MR. OLLIFF: -- Tuesday, the 25th -- MR. FERNANDEZ: Yes, it is. MR. OLLIFF: -- to consider a temporary ATV event on that particular site on what apparently are some trails that already exist, they just simply need to be cleaned up a little bit. So we'll take a look and see whether the commission would be willing to do that in the interim period and then see how that works. MR. BRIGHAM: Great. Okay, thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you. Yes, sir? MR. ALBURY: My name is Eric Albury. I'm not too good at this type of thing. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: That's all right. We appreciate you coming. MR. ALBURY: The only thing is, I notice there's been a lot of money spent trying to find out what to do about this. It would have been very simple if they'd just gone up by -- on 95 by Vero Beach. They have a garbage dump there. I think about 150 or 500 feet or something up in the air? They have a golf course on it. They sell sod off of it. There's no scent there. Why are we having all this problem and we waste all the money that we've spent having this investigated? It's gone down the drain now because nothing's going to be done about it. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Something is going to be done about it. Something is -- MR. ALBURY: Well, that money is -- that money was wasted. I mean, you could have gone right up there. I guarantee you, if you go up there you could find your -- you could get your answer on how to do this one properly. Because everything that they say, "We did this, it's working right, we did this, it's working right, we did this." But the scent is still there, so something ain't working right. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you, sir. Other speakers on the landfill? Yes, ma'am. MS. STAMATINOS: My name is Mary Stamatinos, and I know that -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Could you spell your last name? MS. STAMATINOS: S-T-A-M-A-T-I-N-O-S. And I live in Golden Gate. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you, ma'am. MS. STAMATINOS: I know you have already voted against obtaining Cite L for relocation, but may I make a few comments about how I feel about the matter? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, you may. MS. STAMATINOS: Well, I feel that in addition to the odor problem, which cannot seem to get resolved, and the fact that the Golden Gate residents and other Golden -- Collier County residents affected by the -- have the inalienable right to be able to breathe fresh air where they live is the strategic location of the present landfill. I feel that in a progressive county such as Collier, this is not the proper location for a landfill or any other project dealing with Page 37 May 20, 1999 the management or of the waste or garbage of the county. Let's face it, certain things belong in the forefront and certain things should be placed behind the scenes. When the landfill was moved to Naples to the present location, this area was behind the scenes. There was no activity or people around there. However, inasmuch as Golden Gate and Golden Gate Estates has had so much growth and there's so much activity in the area, especially with Exit 15 of 1-75, the present location of the landfill is not behind the scenes any longer. Therefore, we should look at the whole picture regarding Collier County and the ambience thereof for which Naples is well known. I respectfully urge to you reconsider the matter of the relocation of the landfill objectively and move it where it belongs, behind the scenes. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you, ma'am. (Applause.) MR. ARTHUR: My name's Bill Arthur. I'm president of the Golden Gate Chamber. And the Golden Gate Chamber is for trucking it out of the county. One reason, as has been discussed before, and moving it around just keeps it in the county. And wherever you put it, somebody's going to object to it. I've got some -- heard some ballpark figures, and I think they're fairly accurate. That roughly I pay $120 a year for Waste Management for garbage pickup. And I understand about $32 of that goes to Waste Management from the county. And to truck it out would cost maybe three times that amount, which would mean Waste Management would get 90 some dollars. Well, if you look at it over a year, you're talking about a dollar to a dollar and a half a week for each individual. And I think it's worth more than that to get it trucked out, get it away, get rid of it, and it would eliminate all our problems. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you, sir. MR. BAHANOVICH: I hope I'm next. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: You are. MR. BAHANOVICH: I have a problem, particularly at the site, the different ways they have attempted to dispose their trash, including around the Detroit area where they have -- I believe -- in fact, they import trash. They utilize it as a power through the -- I'm not sure, through the incinerator. And of course that's usually difficult to dispose of trash moving around. Again, I heard or was able to read when I was able to see. My big concern was like some have expressed here, is this the only landfill for the entire county that we have in this area? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: No, sir, we have one in Immokalee. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's closed, for all intense and purposes. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Well -- MR. BAHANOVICH: Unfortunately, when I first came to the United States about 51 years ago, when you used to return particularly like bottles, you know, you put deposit. And some they still do in some states, you know. We attempting now to have recyclables. And I'm not sure ~- it must help some. But take it -- the plastic trash bags or Page 38 May 20, 1999 the items that are not dehydratable (sic), and if you put in the landfill, obviously, it would take a while, I guess. I don't know what the process or procedure. Another thing is my concern about from the health standpoint, besides smelling. And have lived in displaced person camp where you have a lot of garbage, a lot of rats, and I had a firsthand experience because I was bitten on the nose and in the ear and it spread. And it can happen. It does happen here in United States, in New York City, and I can point out a number of areas. So that's another consideration as far as having open landfill. So I don't know how expensive it would be, but my suggestion would be, or recommendation is probably have an incinerator to burn, if it possibly can be filtered. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you, sir. Do we have other speakers on the landfill question? MS. MARANTO: My name is Beverly Maranto. M-A-R-A-N-T-O. I have a question. I'm very naive on these things, but I'd like to know about the noise of these fans. MR. ILSCHNER: The noise of -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: The fans. MR. ILSCHNER: -- the fans. Okay, that's a good question, because I had the same question myself when I was introduced to fan technology. And one of the reasons that I visited California was to investigate that. And it's amazing that once you get approximately 300 feet or so away from those fans, the noise drops off significantly, almost to background levels. And if you look at the manufacturer's data that's been developed, laboratory type data, they indicate from 300 to 500 it's dropped to background levels at that point. There's not a large pitch on those blades, so it doesn't generate a lot of noise. Very low wind speeds are developed. Around five miles per hour. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, sir. MR. ANDERSON: My name is Mike Anderson. Yeah, on this curtain you're going to put down, how much dirt are you going to put on top of it? MR. ILSCHNER: It takes approximately two feet. MR. ANDERSON: Now, if you're going to use -- okay, if you're going to use it for a park or something or recreation area, you're going to put trees in it, how deep do you got to dig the trees, and aren't you going to break the seal? MR. ILSCHNER: We're not allowed to put trees on top of the cap itself. MR. ANDERSON: So you're going to have 100 acres of just bare land? MR. ILSCHNER: It will be grassed. It will be grassed and sodded. MR. ANDERSON: So you can't use it for a golf course. MR. ILSCHNER: Probably not for awhile. MR. ANDERSON: Not for -- MR. ILSCHNER: Ultimately once it cures out, then they can use it Page 39 May 20, 1999 for a lot of uses at that point. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah, but how long will that take? MR. ILSCHNER: It's about a 30 to 35-year process. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah. So people thinking about building a golf course out there, they must be ridiculous. MR. ILSCHNER: Well, I think the golf course is being talked about on the adjacent 300 acres, which is certainly viable. MR. ANDERSON: Right. So then you have this great big no man's land, more or less, of how many acres? MR. ILSCHNER: It's about -- it's going to be about, I think when we're finished, about 80 acres. Is that right? MR. ANDERSON: And this stuff can't be punctured? MR. ILSCHNER: No, your -- you of course shouldn't puncture it. It could be punctured I guess if you tried hard. And then you'd have to repair it so that you don't allow marsh or seeping in. MR. ANDERSON: Now, won't the garbage settle after a certain amount of time? Don't this -- MR. ILSCHNER: Yes, there is some settlement. MR. ANDERSON: -- you put this material on, and then it settles? MR. ILSCHNER: Yes, there is settlement. MR. ANDERSON: And it don't settle even, so you have valleys and MR. ILSCHNER: There will be some unsettlement. MR. ANDERSON: -- ruts. MR. ILSCHNER: And we are required to maintain that and come back in and take care those subtle spots and re-level that so it also drains properly. MR. ANDERSON: For the next 30 years? MR. ILSCHNER: Yes, sir. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Forever. MR. ILSCHNER: We have to -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: For 30 years. MR. ILSCHNER: -- put funds into a sinking fund to ensure we accomplish that, yes. MR. ANDERSON: Well, that's my question. People talking about a golf course. You can't do nothing with this property for 30 years or 40 years. MR. ILSCHNER: Approximately, yes. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah, most people will be gone. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Some of us will still be here. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll be here keeping an eye on it for you. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Speak for yourself. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Hi, Mary. MS. DUNAVAN: My name is Mary Dunavan. And I see some literature left on the chairs of lies. I'd like for you to address that. And I'd like for Mr. Ilschner to tell us about his trips, where he has gone, and what have you found to stop the smell and if the smell were -- if the other places that you went to there was no smell. And personally I'm not for moving the landfill, because I live in the area of where you're going to move the landfill to, or thinking of Page 40 May 20, 1999 Cite L. So I don't want your smell. I don't want the landfill in that area because we also have our water that we drink coming from the north. So maybe you could satisfy some of our minds that this smell will be stopped, because it must be terrible, you know, to have the smell. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Mary, before you go, I don't understand your question about literature on the chairs. Is it this housing stuff, these different colored sheets? MS. DUNAVAN: No. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Oh. So glad I asked. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you for asking. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Certainly want to applaud whoever brought those. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you so much. It speaks for itself. MR. ILSCHNER: If I understand your question correctly, you want me to tell you how we feel like we can solve the landfill odor problem, based on the trips I've made and where I've been; is that correct? MS. DUNAVAN: Yes. COMMISSIONER CARTER: I think also, Ed, she's asking perhaps the locations where those were -- MR. ILSCHNER: Yes. COMMISSIONER CARTER: -- what's around it and so people can have an idea what the urban areas were like. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Were they landfills that you went and saw where the fan technology and all, or were they other odor causing activities? MR. ILSCHNER: Okay. There were three locations that I visited to investigate fan technology. One was Severe County, Tennessee. This is a location in which a large drum processing or garbage processing is located. And it also has a lot of odor associated with it. And they had a vertical turban portion of this fan technology there. Now, at this particular location, it was quite a bit of odor associated with the process. And they used a different scrubber, odor scrubber system, but the fan technology was employed. And it was very effective. There were not a lot of houses in the vicinity of this plant, so I didn't feel that that was one that I would feel typically comfortable with. And that's why I followed that up with a trip to Sacramento, California. And in Sacramento, California, there's a very large wastewater treatment plant with the same hydrogen gas -- hydrogen sulfide gas production. Very large amounts of hydrogen sulfide gas in the summer. And it all migrates toward some very large residential areas, and also commercial areas. The fan technology has proven very effective at that site in eliminating odor migration. It hasn't eliminated the odor, it's still there, it simply does not allow it to hover on the ground because hydrogen sulfide is heavier than air. And when the winds are very low, it kind of just mows itself along the ground and travels very Page 41 May 20, 1999 slowly and doesn't dissipate. So the fans dissipate the odor completely. It's very effective there. I visited with some residents, some commercial people. There is a computer company there, a very large computer company. I visited with some of those people, and they have indicated that the fan technology has been effective. In fact, when the fans aren't running, they call and say help, please turn the fans on. So I can tell you that fan technology there was very successful. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Ed, do you want to talk about how the -- how we'll know when the fans should go on at our landfill? MR. ILSCHNER: Yes, yes. The final location was Punta Hills, in Los Angeles. This is the largest modern landfill in the world that's operated properly through EPA regulations. And at that site they had an odor problem that was affecting a large residential area. And they employed a number of these fans at that location. The fan technology there was very effective in diminishing the odor problem at that site. The fan technology that we plan to employ would employ four fans and one vertical turban fan. And what would occur is these fans would move air around the working area into the center, and then the vertical turban fan would suck that air up five, 600 feet in the air above the inversion layer and basically dissipate -- not only dissipate the odor, molecules of the odor, but also put it above the inversion layer so it would not settle back down at all. Very effective technology that's being employed also in Cobb County, Tennessee as well -- I mean Cobb County, Georgia. The winds have to be five miles per hour for you to have an odor problem, or less. So when the winds are above five miles per hour, the fans will not operate. But they will automatically come on at any time of the day or night, 24 hours a day, if the winds should fall below five miles per hour. Whether we have odor or not. Hopefully I've tried to address that. Let me just mention that the odor that's being generated out there, you want to know how we're going to solve the odor problem. I can tell you that we're going to solve it with this closure of Cell 6. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: There's basically two pieces to it, as I understand. One is the early closure of the cell that has the leachate problems, the stinky water, we're going to seal it over with that heavy, heavy material. And then where we continue to operate the landfill, we're going to put the fans in for almost extra insurance, because that's not a real source of smell anyway. But just to cover. MR. ILSCHNER: That's absolutely correct, Madam Chairwoman. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Other speakers? Yes, ma'am. MS. CONSTANTINE: My name's Janet Constantine. And just a question for you about the humidity. I know that our temperature and weather is very different from California and Tennessee, and I'm wondering, often in the evenings when it's very humid and the air is very heavy, Tim and I notice that it's -- the smell is really bad when it hangs in the air. And so with the fans, even if it blows it up 500 to 600 feet, are we taking into account, you know, our humidity factor and the Page42 May 20, 1999 heaviness of our air in a subtropical climate, and how effective is that really going to be? MR. ILSCHNER: Yes, and that's one of the reasons that we're approaching this project with a lease/purchase approach. And I need to mention that. We believe this technology will be very effective and that -- but we don't want to spend $250,000 and it not be successful. So our approach will be a leach/purchase. And we will ensure that it is totally successful before we pay for it. But we believe it is going to be totally successful. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: She's kind of cute. Somebody get that girl's phone number. MS. McMILLAN: Did I understand you to say that the fans will only operate if it's five miles an hour winds? MR. ILSCHNER: Yes, ma'am, they'll only operate at five miles per hour or less. Because that's when hydrogen sulfide, heavier than air, hovers along the ground and then moves with these low speeds across the ground. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: If there's wind, you don't need it. MR. ILSCHNER: The higher wind speed, it dissipates. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: If there's wind at five miles or over, you don't need the fan. MS. McMILLAN: Yeah, if there's wind and there's a smell, where's the smell going? Where the wind goes, right? MR. ILSCHNER: Well, the smell -- MS. McMILLAN: So there's still going to be a smell. MR. ILSCHNER: The smell will dissipate. The wind action itself dissipates the -- the reason you have a smell is this is a heavier than air cloud and it follows along and it sticks together. Any kind of wind will dissipate it above five miles per hour. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The theory is that this will lift it up above before the wind brings it to your and my house. My only question, and this is to the boaYd as much as to staff, do we have a time line? Are we going to look one year after we implement this and review, and if it's not working -- and we all hope it works, but as I said in our public hearings before, you know, it's been the water plant and we fixed that and it still smelled. Then it was the methane gas and we had to flare that off and it still smelled. Then it was the gypsum board and it still smelled. And so you can understand the skepticism. And I'm just wondering if -- do we have a time line under which we're going to say gosh, it's April of 2000 and it smells, maybe this didn't work, or -- COMMISSIONER CARTER: I think that's why you have a lease option on the equipment -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Exactly. What are the terms of our lease? MR. ILSCHNER: The terms of the lease will be at the end of one year from the installation of the fan system. We will evaluate the effectiveness of that system. We will also be quite in great position to evaluate the closure effectiveness within six to eight months. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, that will work, there's no question about it, because it was my idea. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Gosh, I wish I was as confident as you. Page43 May 20, 1999 Are there other speakers? Yes, sir, please come up. MR. PRICE: Yes, my name is Willie Price. I just got one quick question. Is it a money back guarantee? MR. ILSCHNER: It's a money back guarantee on the fan technology only from the standpoint we have an opt out at the end of the first year. But there's no money back guarantee on that technology. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: And I hope that the community sees that as a commitment to Golden Gate that we are willing to spend money, a lot of money, on the hope that this is the way to solve a problem, we're not just going to talk about it. I hope that it's seen that way in the community. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Am I correct, Mr. Ilschner, that's about five million dollars that we're going to invest in this total closing and fan technology? MR. ILSCHNER: It will be close to about three and a half million on the county, I think, and then an additional million -- couple million on the Waste Management? What's your portion of that, Steve? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: We need to get you on the microphone, if you would, Mr. Bigelow. MR. BIGELOW: I tried not to do this. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: He's shy. MR. BIGELOW: I'm Steve Bigelow, with Waste Management. What's the question? MR. ILSCHNER: The question was, what was the total expenditure. From what I understand, ours will be about two and a half to three million dollars, and I didn't know exactly what your portion of that would be. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Just happened to have some notes. MR. ILSCHNER: I can only quote the county's portion, so I wanted to ~- MR. BIGELOW: Commissioner Constantine keeps me informed of these matters. This is a summary that I've prepared at a workshop. I mentioned it was a five million dollar solution. And the summary, basically including your fans, is about 4.3 million. And the way I broke it down was that the county would spend about 2.7 or 8 million, including the fan system at 250,000, and Waste Management would be spending about 1.6 million. Now, I believe, with all honesty, that these costs are going to be significantly less, because I received bids today. I am analyzing those bids and I'll bring them to you before Tuesday. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you. Another question? Yes, ma'am. MS. JENKINS: My name is Barbara Jenkins, and I have a question about odor. The odor monitoring system that you held up a minute ago, does that only monitor hydrogen sulfide? MR. ILSCHNER: This is only a hydrogen sulfide gas analyzer, yes. MS. JENKINS: Okay. So if there are other odors, which some of us that live in that area believe that there might be something other than hydrogen sulfide that's causing that odor, it's not going to pick that up? MR. ILSCHNER: Well, having been in the industry 29 years, I can Page 44 May 20, 1999 tell you that there are basically two gasses in a landfill, and that is methane, which is colorless and odorless, has no odor at all. And hydrogen sulfide, which is, of course, a poisonous gas, as well as it's very heavy and it has odor. Now, those are the two gasses. The gasses that we're dealing with is hydrogen sulfide, and there are molecules of decay and garbage that attach themselves to the molecules, the parent molecule of hydrogen sulfide. And that's why the smell is altered from your normal rotten egg smell of hydrogen sulfide. So that's what you're smelling is an altered hydrogen sulfide gas molecule. The basic molecule will be picked up by this unit here. And there will be a number of these around the landfill that will help us to monitor that. MS. JENKINS: Could we be smelling leachate? MR. ILSCHNER: Leachate certainly is a potential source of odor if it isn't controlled. For example, if you don't keep a lift station lid down and you open up a lift station lid and allow odor to come out, yes, this could be a source. But we monitor that very closely, try to control that. MS. JENKINS: At my house I get it quite frequently. We have fans, Bahama fans, and sometimes we turn them on and we still have odor. So there's no dissipation of the odor. So I'm kind of curious as to how that might work. I'm also smelling odor when the winds are more than five miles an hour. MR. ILSCHNER: One of the things we'll be able to do is assist you in the future, because we'll have this portable unit, and when you have that condition in the future, we'll be able to come out to your home, detect the odor, if it's present, if it's hydrogen sulfide, and we will be able to trace back to the origin point of that odor. And that will be a helpful thing, because we'll be able to pinpoint maybe odors that are coming from a lift station, for example. MS. JENKINS: Okay. One of the problems once -- MR. ILSCHNER: Or a septic tank or something of that nature. MS. JENKINS: And a lot of people have this problem, as we smell those odors at the time when the county isn't open and there's nobody to call. I mean, if you get that odor at 3:00 in the morning, nobody from the county is going to come out with their little machine. I mean, there's no one to call, so what do we do? MR. ILSCHNER: Well, we'll certainly have to look at that and determine how we address those late evening -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: That's a valid point. MS. JENKINS: It's a frustrating point for us. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No, it's a great point. Because when Jen and I are watching -- I just said to Pam, when we're watching our 10:00 p.m. drama every night, that's when you have to button up because it smells so bad you can't be in your own living room, so '- MS. JENKINS: One last question. Are you going to look at alternative technologies? I know that someone -- a citizen in Golden Gate told me that they had sent the commissioners some information I believe on plasma torch, or something like that. I can't remember the Page 45 May 20, 1999 name of that. MR. ILSCHNER: Yes. MS. JENKINS: I'm real curious as to what you might be looking at. MR. ILSCHNER: When plasma torch technology was first put out on the -- for everyone to know about, we actually sat down with the people that were promoting plasma torch technology and visited with them. It is an experimental process. It is not a proven process for large-scale landfill type operations of 1,200 tons or more. Maybe at some point in the future, five or 10 years from now, that will be the technology of choice, but it is not at this point. MS. JENKINS: There was a county in -- another county, I'm not even sure where it was right now -- MR. ILSCHNER: I think it was Comanche County or something like that, that I think is up in Georgia, that is experimenting with that on an experimental basis. MS. JENKINS: And there was a company that was going and offering to do that actually free of charge, if I'm not mistaken. That's still not -- nothing that you would be interested in pursuing, contacting those people? MR. ILSCHNER: I guess our answer is that we would not recommend that technology to the Board of County Commissioners at this point in time. MS. JENKINS: Okay, thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Do we have other questions or comments? MS. TUFF: My name is Katie Tuff. T-U-F-F. I live in Golden Gate. Citing the dollar figures doesn't mean a lot for me personally. We spent roughly $800,000 on a study that really hasn't done anything as far as finding -- it was for siting a new landfill. So as far as looking at those dollar figures, we're very' hopeful that the money you're spending is going to give us some relief out here. But other money spent has really been wasted. Another thing I wanted to mention was the leachate problem. We're being told that that's what's causing the smell, or is contributing to the smell. Yet DEP told the civic association at our meeting this month that the leachate removal system is actually working, it's not failing, that it is working. And that was Bill Crumholtz (phonetic) of the DEP who monitors the landfill who told us that. MR. ILSCHNER: The leachate system is now -- and Steve Bigelow could address this. But we have made some repairs and they have a well that's -- point well that's drawing moisture out of the leachate collection system so they can be effective with a gas collection system. But we have an effective leachate collection. Those are two different systems here: A gas collection system and a leachate system. And the leachate system is functioning, except for certain areas in the landfill where those have collapsed. Is that correct, Steve? You'll have to address that one, because -~ MR. BIGELOW: Sure. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Because it's an operations question. Page 46 May 20, 1999 MR. BIGELOW: Steve Bigelow, Waste Management. Bill Crumwell (phonetic) addressed the Golden Gate Civic Association, and I wasn't there, but I do understand that some of the landfill operations community council were there, and they made the statement the leachate system has failed. The truth is the leachate system has not failed. The truth is the leachate system has some problems. It is draining very slowly. And because it's draining very slowly, the wells will not de-water. And because the wells will not de-water, the effectiveness of the gas wells is diminished. If we can dry the landfill up, take all the water out, by covering with a cap that Mr. Ilschner described, and we can also take the water -- continue to take the water through the existing leachate system, which is draining slowly, and we can put in pneumatic pumps, which we have approximately seven pumps working right now today. We'll de-water the hill and the gas system will do what it was designed to do. MS. TUFF: I also wanted to thank the commissioners, all of them, for coming out tonight. And having you all here is such a wonderful thing for the community. I appreciate your time. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you for saying that. I hope you see it as a real show of respect for the community in Golden Gate, because it's certainly our intent. Are there other speakers on the landfill? If not, then we could go to comment on general topics. Have any speakers? Item #3 PUBLIC COMMENTS COMMISSIONER NORRIS: There he comes. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: There he's back up. MR. WILT: Glenn Wilt. I live here in Golden Gate. I have just a small topic to bring up. We had a contest here about six or eight months ago -- he knows where I'm headed -- on the new alleyways that the county put through. A very magnificent force out here. And it seems the -- I believe there's eight school children involved that made the selections. And I was asked a very interesting question. It seems that the roads off Santa Barbara and the Estates had their names changed and they got their new signs up already. Sea Breeze and all those. And we're still waiting for alley signs. So I ask the question again, if we could get our signs up on the alleys. They've all been named and they've all been sent forward the request. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Would that be something you'd -- is Mr. Kant still here? Is that something you would know about? Is signage your department? On the alley vacations. COMMISSIONER CARTER: He wants to know where his alley signs are. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Ed, we did those alleyways out here. We had the kids name some of those alleys. We need to have some signs that take care of it, mark those names. MR. KANT: I'll take care of it. Page 47 May 20, 1999 CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: All right, Glenn. Who else has a comment? Yes, sir. MR. MUDRAK: How are you doing? I'm Phil Mudrak. M-U-D-R-A-K. I have an issue with the schools and the crossing guards. I think maybe we need to work with the Sheriff's Department and add a few more crossing guards. I know personally I almost ran into a couple of students just darting across the Parkway. I have a trailer I pull constantly with my lawn service and it's very difficult to stop when somebody darts out in front of you. And I noticed the year before we had an extra crossing guard where the Barnett Bank, I guess Nations Bank is now. I'd like to see an additional crossing guard at that point and one at the Winn Dixie crossing area. Because the kids aren't going to go down to one spot just to cross, they're going to cross wherever it's most convenient for them. Which you can't blame them. I think it would be a good thing to do. And also, putting up a few more guard rails for the school entrances off the Parkway, and perhaps add a few more bike paths off the Parkway, coming down the residential areas, just to the main lanes so the kids aren't directly on the streets when you're turning off the Parkway, they're not right there in your way. Because I seen that's quite a bit of a problem here in Golden Gate. If you could probably look into that and do something about that, I'd appreciate that. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: I appreciate that. And Mr. Kant, if you'd make a note on this location about the guard rails, to look into that. And we can deliver messages to the Sheriff's Office and to the school board about those crossing guard issues, even though it's not our particular -- you know, we don't get to decide that. But we can certainly try to get that message delivered. And I'm sure Mr. Fernandez has made a note of that and will do that. MR. KANT: I spoke with the gentleman during the break and I told him I would look into that. MR. MUDRAK: Yeah, he did. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Wonderful. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just on the sidewalk issue, in '92 we had virtually no sidewalks in Golden Gate. This was designed before Collier County required that. And so we've been incrementally adding those in. And you'll see where they are for the most part is surrounding the schools, for the obvious reasons as you're saying, you don't want the kids in the street. And so we've added on average 60 or $70,000 worth of sidewalks a year. And last year we didn't have as much out here, but we've each year incrementally tried to add as much in. And this isn't the only place in the county we're doing that. But we're playing catch-up on the sidewalks. MR. MUDRAK: Yeah, on the opposite side of the Parkway, it gets to be a problem also. And my second concern is private Waste Management over here. I notice they purchased a truck that has a claw on it, come around and pick up the appliances and so forth, and then you have another truck Page 48 May 20, 1999 that comes around and they pick up whatever debris the other truck with the claw that picks up the garbage cans that they bought. Then we have a recyclable truck that comes around. So we have -- you know, I think we have about two or three times more -- as many trucks coming around our neighborhoods as we used to. And I think they got a little backwards with the claw. I think they could turn that around, because presently the residents have to bundle up their yard debris in a four-foot bundles, no heavier than 40 pounds. Which it's -- you know, I know, I'm in the lawn service, I haul my debris to the landfill on a weekly basis. But I know for an average resident, it's a little bit troublesome to sit there and bundle this up. If they could turn around and use that claw to pick up the bulk debris of yard waste and have the guys that are coming around with the dumpster in front of their truck throw the appliances or whatever they're coming around to pick that up, I think it would be, you know, a lot more sufficient as far as, you know, collections go. If you can take that to concern and look into that. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Absolutely. MR. MUDRAK: I know that it works very well for the city, which, you know, that's where I'm at all the time. But I'd like to see that converted out to the county also. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you for that. Yes, ma'am? MS. PHILLIPS: Good evening, commissioners. For the record, my name is Neddy Phillips, a 50-plus year resident of Collier County. I live out in Golden Gate Estates north. This has been addressed many times with our Golden Gate Estates Civic Association. I live on a nice paved street north-south east-west, I intersect both, and I look -- my properties in this area looks like we live in a dust bowl because of all the children that ride up and down the sides of the street on their ATV's. And it just turns the rocks and the lime rock up. So our paved streets mean very little. Your plants, your cars, everything looks just like a dust bowl. So I wanted to bring that to your attention. And one other thing: I received a notice on our homestead exemption papers that stated that anyone that had not given their Social Security numbers into the Social Security -- through the homestead exemption place, that from 2000 on, you would not be able to have homestead exemption. Right, I have the paper in my wallet. Okay. I didn't give them my Social Security number, not going to. Now, one other thing -- I would like to know about that, because I went up there and talked to two or three people. Their names are in my wallet. And they said well, yes, that was given out and sent out, because everybody didn't give their Social Security numbers. And then the next time I went back, about two or three months later, they said oh, don't worry about it because they're voting on it at the legislature right now, and we're probably not even going to deal with that. Well, I went to Cocoa Beach to a property rights meeting a few months back, and that was brought up up there, and it was quite a big Page 49 May 20, 1999 issue that they were still doing that. Now, I'm researching a resolution that they're working on right now and we're trying to get more information where it looks like they're trying to get rid of homestead exemption in the State of Florida altogether. Now, who would know the answers to these questions? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: The answer -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: I hate to say it, but the legislature certainly would know, and then also Abe Skinner, who's an elected property appraiser, who's a constitutional officer. We can try to pass questions on, but those -- MS. PHILLIPS: So nobody here would know? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Sorry. MS. PHILLIPS: Those are my three questions, other than property rights, which we are losing. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, ma'am. Yes, sir? MR. CHACE: As I mentioned before, my name is Robert Chace. I'm from Alaska. The last name is C-H-A-C-E. I didn't tell you that before, and most people spell it S-E. What I'd like to say is I've been looking forward, I bought a piece of property out in southern Golden Gate Estates in 1962 for this fine day when I could come and retire in the fair sunshiny State of Florida. I'm trying to turn myself from a polar bear into an alligator, okay, and I purposely picked a piece of property as remote and as close to the panther area, which are really the cougars, you know, mountain lines -- yeah, that's a joke, I know. But the -- I bought a piece of property right on the border of that so-called panther canal. I bought across the canal. The panthers got one side and I had the other. I had 660 feet along the canal. I've got two miles from the road coming in. I'm going to be isolated, just like I always wanted to do. I'm a wilderness person, and I enjoy living away from government, if you'll pardon me, as much government intrusion on my lifestyle as possible. And of course what did I do? I find myself -- my welcoming committee when I drove 6,000 miles in my motor home was if you park there on your property, after paying taxes for 37 years and paying a mortgage for 20 years, which I paid it off in 1982, we'll get you a ticket and fine you, so get your butt out of here. And this is my welcome to Florida. And it's really very disheartening. And I'm kind of tore up about it. And I'd like to know why, when I go to get a building permit so I can comply with your laws. I'm told I can't get any building permits, that I'm not allowed to have permits. What have I been doing for 37 years? Why did the State of Florida okay a project? Why did the Army Corps of Engineers okay a project and welcome me as a stranger to come in and buy the land because it's the fastest growing state and everybody wants to come down here and retire, so I went away and I lived my dream up there. And then when I started writing letters last year down here to Collier County, my wife couldn't even get an answer back on what we Page 50 May 20, 1999 needed to do in order to build. We got a blank. So I bought a motor home and I hustled my butt on down here, and I'm down here and I'm buying a piece of property in a 25 -- in what they call a donut hole out here. Apparently there's a chance that I might be able to get the lifestyle that I want to live there. But they tell me my property's only worth 4,000 and some odd dollars. I paid 10,500 back in 1962, and of course we know that the dollar's been devalued so badly that naturally it's not worth what I paid for it. But the piece of property I'm in the process of buying is -- I'm paying $25,000 for. The state is offering a buy-out in your southern -- in that donut hole area of like 2,800 an acre, which is nowhere near what the land is worth. I mean, I'm gladly paying 25. I'd pay $50,000 to be able to build. I'd buy that piece of property that I bought back in 1962, because it's what I want. I didn't over pay for it then, but I get the state telling me oh, no, you over paid for it. Well, you encouraged me to over pay for it. You told me what a wonderful state you had, you told me to come in and to put my money in. The Army Corps of Engineers okayed the project. And thousands of us suckers from all over the world invested money down here. And what are we getting for it? I can't even get an answer. Can you guys supply some answers to a fellow that's -- all he wants to do is live in your state and go by your laws. And why can't I have -- why can't I live on the land I bought in 1962, please? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think somebody, perhaps Vince Cautero from our permitting will spend a little time with you. You are allowed, you are not prohibited from doing anything with your land out there. MR. CHACE: I was told I could not get it permit at a meeting by one of your Collier County people. Last night at a civic meeting I was told I couldn't get a permit in that area. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And I don't know specifically what it is you want to build. And rather than have that whole discussion now. But there are certain prohibitions out there, and Eddie May was talking about private property rights, and you can get me pretty fired up about private property rights when we talk about the southern Estates. But there are certain things that you are allowed to do there. And if nothing else, we could probably sit down and be able to spell out for you what is allowed and what isn't allowed, at least get you the answer to your questions. MR. CHACE: Yeah, well, I'm in the process of selling our properties up in Alaska for my retirement. I've got bone cancer and I've got prostrate cancer, and I haven't got a lot of time left. They've given me six months to three years. And I don't want to play games here in the State of Florida, waiting to find out how I can go about having my dream that I had 40 years ago. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Convince, will you just wave? And he can give you a card, probably answer some of your questions now, but give you a card and schedule some time with you to answer some of those questions. Page 51 May 20, 1999 MR. CHACE: I'll appreciate that, and I thank you very much for your time. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you, sir. Yes, if you don't mind. MR. DORTHY: My name is Frank Dorthy. It's D-O-R-T-H-Y. And I live out in the same area he's talking about. And really, a bunch of us are just getting the runaround. We go to the county to get addresses, well, no, sir, that road doesn't exist. No address. Go down there to inquire about permits and like him, we're told no permits. Can't do nothing. We're running you all out. Well, if they're running everybody out, why is the state and the county still allowing realtors to sell that property? I mean, don't we have rights? We've been told that -- and the guy just this last weekend, the realtor, said no problem, no problem. He's showing us all these papers. And then Code Enforcement comes out here and says well, you guys are just SOL. You're out of here. We'd like some answers. We're getting the runaround out there. And it ain't right, it ain't proper. We moved out there -- most of us -- some of us can't even afford to pay four, $500 a month rent. Out there I put down $285 for five acres of land, $285 a month. I can live like that. My kids love it out there, my wife loves it out there, my horses love it out there. Now all of a sudden Code Enforcement shows up at somebody's house and they're wanting thousands of dollars they know he can't pay. And we don't get no services out there. Why do we have to pay all these impact fees? You call a cop, two or three days later he might find his way out there. And we're not really complaining that much about it. I mean, those guys, we realize they don't spend much time out there. We know those boys like the back of our hands. But, I mean, we've got rights. We're out there because we kind of like the seclusion. Most of us don't even want Florida Power and Light to show up out there. We're perfectly happy with our generators, power packs and power invertors. We don't need all that garbage. And when 2000 rolls around and your computers whack out and everybody's sitting around in the dark saying I can't see, we're going to be sitting back there going -- look at those idiots in town. I'll tell you, it's lovely out there. It's beautiful out there. We're not out there harassing the animals. We actually go out of the way to leave the animals alone, unless it's a poisonous snake. Because of my kids, I will kill that. I mean, why are we not left alone out there? Why are we being harassed and lied to? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just a brief response. When you say why are you running out us, county's not trying to run anybody out of there. The state has what I'll call a bogus buy-back program that's not gone anywhere for the better part of 20 years. It's been 16, 17 years. And we had a report -- this commission had someone from the state come to us about two years ago and tell us that their buy-back program was right on schedule. We did some quick math and we found out that on the schedule they Page 52 May 20, 1999 were on, it would take them about 65 more years before they finished. So we actually made a lot of changes then and have forced the state's hand a little bit. Because I think everybody on this board will agree with you, that the way it's being done right now is not fair. And isn't fair to the property owners. The one gentleman said he's not comfortable with the price being offered. And what's happened is during that whole 16, 17-year process, they've said hey, it's a voluntary program. If you don't want to sell, you don't have to. And yet as they gather more and more land, for the first time Ever, we heard publicly a month ago, two months ago, from someone at the state saying well, maybe we're going to condemn those places that are still left. So believe me, you have five people sitting here who support private property rights and the people who are out there like yourselves and want to be there, we don't want to bother you. And we are trying to get the state to work with you on that. MR. DORTHY: Well, you know, if would help them any, they can go to Texas. They've got those natural preserves all over Texas, people living throughout them. They don't hassle them, they don't harass them. People let them be. What's wrong with this state? Why can't -- I mean, especially this county, this is one of the richest counties in the state. Why they got to harass people out there? I mean, it makes no sense. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I think what Commissioner Constantine's trying to get across to you and the other people who are interested in this issue, we're on your side. It really doesn't serve any useful purpose to grind on us. MR. DORTHY: I was just hoping to get some answers. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: I understand your frustration. I mean, you know. MR. DORTHY: It is very frustrating. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Absolutely. MR. DORTHY: And I moved out there and all of a sudden I'm not in trouble or nothing anymore. I'm left alone, usually. Thank you. COMMISSIONER BERRY: What's the group in Tallahassee, Tim? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: DEP. COMMISSIONER BERRY: DEP? Yeah, the DEP In Tallahassee is where you can probably get some answers. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yeah, it's where you should be able -- COMMISSIONER BERRY: It's where you should be able to get the answers because that's the agency. MS. PRICE: I handed in a written list of questions '- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: No, no, no, no. COMMISSIONER BERRY: She needs -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: We'll let you hear that in just one minute. Yes, sir? MR. BRIGHAM: I have about five points I'd like to bring up. And if you care do respond, please limit your response to five words or less. When is the park scheduled to open up off of Livingston Road between Vanderbilt and Immokalee? Page 53 May 20, 1999 COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, it seems to be that -- MR. BRIGHAM: When will that road be built? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: It should be at about -- COMMISSIONER CARTER: Road will be built -- I think Tom Olliff can answer the question. MR. OLLIFF: Five words or less is tough. But the road -- my understanding is the road's going to be constructed in 2002-2003, and we want to have the park done about the same time the road opens. MR. BRIGHAM: Great. Since you allowed closing off the road between Foxfire and -- or Davis and Radio Road, we were wondering if you'd let us block off the road and put gates on Oaks Boulevard. COMMISSIONER BERRY: I don't think so. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: No. MR. BRIGHAM: Then in that case -- COMMISSIONER BERRY: I don't think so. MR. BRIGHAM: In that case could -- that was very good. In that case, could we eliminate trucks from using Oaks Boulevard? It's a residential area, it's a residential road, and there's no way I would let my children ride along Oaks Boulevard on an additional third lane. We'd rather go back to one lane versus go to three lanes. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: I can guarantee you Ed Kant can't answer a question in five words or less, but we'll give him a shot. MR. KANT: You're right, I can't. I spoke with Mr. Brigham earlier today. Actually, I left a message in response to his phone call where he asked the same question, explaining to him that Oaks Boulevard is a collector roadway between two arterials. And while we would try to discourage cut-through trucks, there is really no way to effectively eliminate or cut down on the number of trucks that we use that road without alternate routes. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No, but I think probably the most helpful answer is long-term you're going to have a Logan extension which will go from Vanderbilt to Immokalee Road. So a lot of your traffic that right now uses Logan and then comes over to Oaks as a north-south roadway is no longer going to use Oaks. So what are we -- as you look at the developments there, we're a few years away from that being a reality, but we're not so far that it won't impact everybody who lives there. MR. BRIGHAM: Why can't we send the trucks down Airport Road or 9517 It will take them an extra mile or two to get to their DiVosta home place where they're digging all their dirt or whenever they're going, but it's mostly 18-wheelers and trucks going down to Island Walk is what we're having a problem with. I didn't catch the answer COMMISSIONER BERRY: I have to agree, because I use that road. I live off of Immokalee Road, so Igo down to Oaks Boulevard. Because I try to stay off Immokalee and get off as quickly as possible. The problem is just as he states, that they are coming off of 1-75 and they are turning and going down that roadway. So it is a problem. MR. BRIGHAM: Can't we limit it to one ton or something, let the Page 54 May 20, 1999 small guys go through and keep -- all the big the dirt haulers, let them drive around a little bit extra. It will take them five extra minutes to go the other way. They're the ones we have a problem with. And they're already tearing up Oaks. They repaved Oaks Boulevard and it's already back to the bumpy road that it was before they did the redo. COMMISSIONER BERRY: It just gets a tremendous amount of traffic out there. I think probably Mr. Kant would agree with that, too. Because I know they -- I've seen the counter things down, and I'm sure the counters have got to be indicating there's a lot of traffic on there. MR. KANT: Yes, there is. And I'm not -- I certainly will not argue with Mr. Brigham's premise. But on the other hand, in the absence of other routings and with the volume of traffic that's out there, the nature of the traffic, all the building that's going on out there, there's going to be large trucks on all of our roads. MR. BRIGHAM: Can you put the sidewalk that you were talking about going on the east side of Oaks Boulevard -- can't you put it up against the woods where everybody has their fence and the telephone poles? Can't you just hug that line and that would give them more room than putting kids up on a road, you know, six feet away or eight feet away? It's an inappropriate road for a split design like that, in my opinion, because it's just -- people are going too fast and it's flat out dangerous to let the kids -- I have to go down the street and help them get across Oaks Boulevard. MR. KANT: There's no design at this point. The Oaks Boulevard project is just that, it's a concept project. We're going to look into it. And as I told Mr. Brigham again at the break, before we obviously go out and do anything, we would go back to the residents and make sure that what we're doing is what they want us to do. MR. BRIGHAM: Great. This sounds like a naive question, but what would it take to change the county constitution to go to an elected county manager kind of thing? Is that out of the question? Is that -- COMMISSIONER BERRY: Don't go there, believe me. MR. BRIGHAM: Don't go there? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I can't do it in five words or less, but I can do it in probably 30 seconds or less. We're an unincorporated county, and that's governed by state laws. If you wanted to incorporate and try to have a particular set of -- charter, a particular sheet set of rules, have charter government, it upsets the apple cart. I could run down a list of those places that do that and they are the least impressive places in the State of Florida. They are all those communities we don't want to be like, like when you go to Dade County or places like that. MR. BRIGHAM: Finally, I'd like to nominate Leo Ochs to be the interim. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Like me -- like me, you may be jumping the gun a little bit there. MS. PRICE: My name is Susan Price. I live out in the Estates in Page 55 May 20, 1999 what is just the inside of the donut. And I am one of those people that is zoned estate for residential use that cannot get a permit, period. I have already asked. I cannot even get a permit for a well, okay, on my property. Now, five years ago when I purchased this property I called the abstract office, went to the abstract office. Got an address even. I have an address listed now on the books and everything there. But I still cannot get a permit. I was the -- when I asked was this part of the buy-out area, no, it was not. When I asked would I have problems, they said right now if you wait too long, you will. And then a lady very nicely told me well, in all actuality, we'll never get out there and inspect. What you do is up to you. And now they're going to come out here and start all this other stuff. Okay, now, what I really want to know from you people is just some information, because I'm having a heck of a time getting any answers. How do we get somebody to come down here and give us a straight answer about the flooding problems, about why they want to take all this land when they don't need it to enact a flood-free area for this county and for parts of Lee County? Because they had enough land 10 years ago to do an above ground chain of lakes that cost way less than lawsuits and the problems and displacement of people have cost up to now. How can we get these people to come down here and answer these questions and get some straight answers and get some of these people off our backs? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: One of the things we said and all of us snickered along with you, when we said the DEP in Tallahassee, because it is hard sometimes to get some of the state agencies. And I complimented the Department of Transportation earlier. I would not have that same compliment for DEP. I would suggest you speak with your state legislator. MS. PRICE: I've left so many messages at his office, it's not funny, and still ain't got an answer. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'm sorry to hear that. Because they can sometimes get a better response than we can, just because they're directly impacting their budgets and so on. MS. PRICE: One of the other things was, I started to say something earlier. I went to a meeting where the state department was down here for the Environmental Protection Agency, okay? I went in, I asked questions, and like I said, I did not demand answers at the time. I said you can mail me answers. Just give me some information, who to go to, who to see, what can we do to change this. I have not even had an answer to that. Now, I didn't take up anybody's time, I didn't make unreasonable accusations, I just asked them, can you please mail me the answers. Didn't take up two seconds of his time. Now, can't the county, you as our representatives, help us make a meeting with these people, get them out here, or in a place big enough to hold them, whatever, and get some straight answers? Will you help us as a go-between get these people here to do something constructive for a change? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, actually, we had them up at our Page 56 May 20, 1999 chambers a couple of times. Why weren't you there? MS. PRICE: I can't take time off from my job. And it takes -- okay, my husband right now is our only income. He does not have a driver's license, and I have to -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I think it's unreasonable for you to expect that the State of Florida DEP is going to adjust their schedule to fit yours. If you can't be there when they're there, I mean -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: John, I think I've got to disagree with you. I think if somebody wants to use their own private property and can't get an answer out of the government, that's the government's mistake, not the private property owner's. (Applause.) COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, that's not what I said at all, and you know it. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll tell you what I will do, I'll get with you when we adjourn in a few minutes. I'll get with you and get a phone number and address for you. I'll arrange that meeting, okay? MS. PRICE: Well, and another thing is, a lot of times we don't know when it's happening. It's not in the part of the paper that we can immediately see it. Just post it here. Have them post it here. People stop by and check here. CHAIRWOM~ MAC'KIE: That's a real valid idea. Good idea. MS. PRICE: I mean, a lot of the times, the reasons we don't attend these meetings, we don't know they're happening until after they're over. MS. ANDERSON: My question is, why are you telling her that she should come to your meetings? Isn't it Collier County that gives the permits, not the state? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, it's county permitting. MR. CAUTERO: Madam Chair, if I could just address that for the moment. Vince Cautero, for the record. I'll be happy to talk to anyone. And Michelle Arnold, the code enforcement director, is here as well. My division oversees several departments. Planning, building and code enforcement are three of those departments. Michelle and I were just talking and we are unaware of any rule that the state may have asked us to enforce. And I can tell you certainly that the Board of County Commissioners has given staff no direction to not issue building permits that are lawful and valid in that particular area you're talking about. Now, if someone has applied for a mobile home permit for a permanent structure in Southern Golden Gate Estates, that would be denied, because that is not a valid use or a lawful use of the property. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Because it's a mobile home? MR. CAUTERO: Because it's not allowed in accordance with the zoning district, that's correct. So apparently there's a great deal of confusion here, and Michelle and I are committed to getting you the answers. But I'm unaware of anyone in my division saying you cannot have a permit on property you own where the zoning district allows it just because the Page 57 May 20, 1999 state intends to buy the property. I have not been told by anyone not to issue a permit. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just to be crystal clear, if someone wants to put a structure on their own property and conforms with all appropriate county ordinances, there's nothing to prohibit them from getting a permit? MR. CAUTERO: Yes, sir, that's a correct statement. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, sir? MR. PRICE: Yes. My name is Willie Price. I'm Susan's husband. I just want to know, how long can you keep a mobile home on a property? MR. CAUTERO: How long can you keep a mobile home -- MR. PRICE: Yes, legally. I mean, I don't want to do nothing illegal. MR. CAUTERO: There's -- if it's allowed to be permitted on a piece of property? MR. PRICE: What if it's there when you bought the property? And it's stated in the contract there is no value in the. place and, you know, you move into it, you fix it up and everything, and it was already there when you got there. I mean, you didn't drag it out there and pay three to $500 to have it there, it was there. And so you're going to tell me I can't have something that was there when I bought the property? I mean, I didn't -- if I would have got bought it, I'd bought something better than what was there when I got there. You know. MR. CAUTERO: I'll answer your question in a more -- if a valid permit was not applied for and received prior to that mobile home being placed on the property, you would not be able to keep it on the property. MR. PRICE: Was it my fault? MR. CAUTERO: No, sir, it's not, but unfortunately that's the way the rule is. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: But it is your responsibility. COMMISSIONER BERRY: That is your responsibility. MR. PRICE: It's my responsibility? MR. CAUTERO: Yes, sir. MR. PRICE: Okay, one more question. The people that's pushing for that buy-out, if they're elected officials, could I have their names so I don't have to vote for them by mistake? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: They're not. COMMISSIONER BERRY: They're not. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Unfortunately they're not elected, they're appointed bureaucrats. MR. PRICE: By whom? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Well, good point. MS. PRICE: By whom? I mean, are those elected officials that appoint them? So I don't have to vote for them either. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Somebody know the answer to that? COMMISSIONER BERRY: For the record, we didn't appoint them. MS. PRICE: Well, I mean, everybody's got a boss somewhere. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Most of your appointments, like a DEP Page 58 May 20, 1999 head, would be appointed by the Governor. Some of those faces have changed, just in the last few months, because we just got a Governor for the first time in eight years. But for the last eight years, those people would have been appointed by Lawton Chiles. MS. PRICE: Okay, thank you. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Yes, ma'am? COMMISSIONER CARTER: He's dead. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah. You won't be voting for him again. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Be respectful of the dead. MS. McMILLAN: I would like to know, these people -- in fact, I spoke to one of these people last night, and he showed me a letter he had from code enforcement. He has been living on his land for years. When he applied for permits, he was told he could do whatever he liked. He didn't require a permit. So he went ahead and he built himself an abode. Code enforcement has sent him a letter fining him. He has until May 28th and the fine escalates in a short amount of time to $500 a day. Why weren't these people grandfathered in when the laws were changed or the codes were changed? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Vince, you want to try to answer that? It's a complicated question. MR. CAUTERO: Yeah, I'd be happy to help answer that question in the back of the room, ma'am, rather than take everyone's time. It would be a very long answer, if you're okay with that. MS. McMILLAN: I'm fine with that. Thank you, commissioners for holding this meeting tonight. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you very much. And if -- go right ahead. And anybody who hasn't spoken and wants to speak, we'd like to hear from you. But it's 10:15, so we're going to wrap up pretty soon. MS. MARANTO: My name is Beverly Maranto. First of all, I just want to thank you all for being here. I really appreciate it. And one thing I do want to say is I think a notice in the paper on the day of the meeting is just a short notice. I know -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Is that what you got? MS. MARANTO: I'm sorry? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Is that all you got? COMMISSIONER BERRY: It was in today's paper. MS. MARANTO: It was in today's paper. I think there's a lot more people in Golden Gate than in this room, and I hope you're not just thinking that this is the show, the turnout. Commissioner Constantine, I want to thank you for all the efforts you've put in for us, for the landfill especially. Commissioner Mac'Kie, I want to thank you for your enthusiasm and interest and professionalism tonight. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Thank you. MS. MARANTO: You have kept this meeting going. Some of you look like you -- I know the only reason you're in Page 59 May 20, 1999 Golden Gate is because you're required to be here; otherwise, you probably don't even know where it is. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Oh, we're not required to be here, actually. I don't have to be here. MS. MARANTO: Mr. Norris, I don't even know if I want to address you. I don't think you need to raise your hands and discuss that this lady who cannot go to a meeting because she has to work, I don't think you understand that. There are a lot of meetings I'd like to go to, commission meetings, but I have to work. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, you're mistaken anyway. We don't have to be here. MS. MARANTO: Well, thank you for being here. I would like to -- Mr. Constantine, I want to ask you a question. And this is a very narrow focus. I live on 25th Avenue Southwest, the street that Mr. Don Lester and his millennium group was going to buy out. Scuttlebutt still has it that he's still interested in taking the street. And scuttlebutt also has it that he's been out to zoning to try to buy a piece off Everglades to get an exchange. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: I've been hearing these things. MS. MARANTO: Commissioner Berry's -- the truth of this? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, we had the folks from Florida Department of Transportation here earlier, and I think Gavin also said that there were only two areas in Southwest Florida that were even considered for an interchange, and I don't think Don Lester's going to change the state or the Federal Government's mind on that. So I know there's some people who would love to have an interchange out there, but I don't See that happening right away. Second thing is Mr. Lester is welcome to try to purchase any property he wants, and anybody who voluntarily wants to sell their property is welcome to do that, but he can't require anybody to do that. The only person who can do that is the government for a public purpose, which clearly isn't the case on 25th. So if you're happy there and want to stay there and don't have any interest in selling, A, don't sell, and B, don't worry about -- I've heard all the stories of gee, it's going to become a four-lane road and so on. It's just not going to happen. It's a public road, it's owned by the public. If you want to stay in your home, stay in your home and don't worry about it. COMMISSIONER BERRY: I've been getting the same phone calls, and I've gotten it down to the point where -- that we're, the county commission, is going to come in and take your homes. I don't know if you heard that as the latest one. And I said to my knowledge, first off, it's never come up at a board meeting. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: No. COMMISSIONER BERRY: None of us individually have any authority to come out and take your home. And this would have to be a collective government group decision before we would do that. And I have no desire as a member of the Board of County Commissioners to put you in that. And if we were going to do it, you would be so notified that the Board of County Commissioners was going to do it. So if anybody comes to you that is not representing Collier Page 60 May 20, 1999 County government and they tell you that, just tell them -- CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Show them this. COMMISSIONER BERRY: -- tell them thank you very much and it's time that they headed down your drive and out onto the main roadway. MS. MARANTO: Thank you very much. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Are there people -- anyone who hasn't had a chance to speak tonight who would like to address the board? Or anybody have something just extremely pressing they can't stand to miss this chance? Going once. Oh, my gosh, you've been up here about , 45 times. MR. BRIGHAM: What about the name changes on the streets off Oaks Boulevard? Is that moving among? CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Tha~'s a done thing, isn't it? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No, off Oaks Boulevard? That has to be -- any of those are citizen initiated. I know there's an effort going on with some of the citizens up there, but it isn't scheduled to be before the commission just yet. I don't know where they are, whether they have more than 50 percent of their signatures. Or -- I don't think there's anything been filed down at Horseshoe Drive. So I know that's an ongoing effort, but it's nothing eminent. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: Anything else? If not, thank -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: If I might, I just want to thank the balance of the board for being here, first of all, and I appreciate you for coming to District III. I think the turnout tonight, we had a good crowd, and I think that indicates there's interest in -- we had people speaking on virtually every issue. There's a great deal of interest. We don't have the opportunity sometimes to get out during the day. As a couple people said, they've got to work. So this is a great chance. I thank each one of you for coming and taking the time. And I know the community appreciates it as well. CHAIRWOMAN MAC'KIE: We appreciate you being here. Thanks. We're adjourned. (Applause.) There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:20 p.m. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DI DER ITS CONTROL P . D~ Page 61 May 20, 1999 '.LERK These minutes approved by the' Board on ~~//]~ , as presented .~ or as corrected TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC., BY CHERIE' R. LEONE, NOTARY PUBLIC Page 62