Loading...
BCC Minutes 02/17/1998 W (w/Collier County Historical Society) WORKSHOP MEETING OF FEBRUARY 17, 1998 OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS Let it be remembered, that the Board of County Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as have been created according to law, and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 12:30 p.m. in WORKSHOP SESSION at Palm Cottage, 137 12th Avenue South, Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Barbara B. Berry Timothy J. Hancock Pamela S. Mac'Kie John C. Norris Timothy J. Constantine ALSO PRESENT: Robert Fernandez, County Administrator David C. Weigel, County Attorney Stanley McDonald, Esquire Jackie Franck, President, Collier County Historical Society Members of the Society: Jean McDaniel John Mayer Jane Tucker Jack Liebet Bern Watkins MS. FRANCK: First of all, welcome each and every one of you. We are so happy to share this Palm Cottage very special house with you, because we're all part of it. It belongs to the community, the Historical Society. The Collier County Historical Society is doing what they can to preserve it in every way. And as you know, we have just had a very major restoration, so it is like a new beginning, in a sense, for all of us. So welcome. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: On behalf of the Board of Commissioners, we want to thank you for your gracious hospitality in having us here today. Thank you very much. MS. FRANCK: It is our pleasure, really. Thank you. So enjoy, everyone. Do all of you know that the Collier County Historical Society was founded in 19627 It's been around quite a while. And then as I mentioned earlier, Palm Cottage was purchased in 1978 to save it from a parking lot. It would have been a pity for what you see today. And it was built in 1895, and it is made of tabbie, which is a shell/mortar construction. And we can show you after you are through eating, later, after the discussion, the workshop, a sample of it. And all the walls, the exterior walls, have the tabbie within it. And it's quite an interesting construction; very sturdy. It's gone through all of the hurricanes that have been about, so of course, the shells are in their own element, in a sense, too. So that part is very interesting. MR. MAYER: It's interesting that it's poured at one foot increments. The walls are about a foot thick and when they poured that, they let it dry; poured it a foot wide and a foot high. They moved the forms up and had 14 different courses, to improve the bottom part of the house. There's a 14 foot pad on the outside. MS. WATKINS: Very strong foundation. MS. FRANCK: And also, when the house was first built, the kitchen was separate from the main house which, because there is activity back there right now, perhaps later we can show you behind the door there. That was an empty open space and it was called a dog trot back then, because dogs used to actually trot back -- it's an old southern custom. Well, very wise. If a fire started in the kitchen, it didn't spread so easily to the main house. But dogs would trot back and forth getting whiffs of the good aromas from the kitchen, hoping something would spill in the transit, and it's kind of fun. But we've turned it into a butler's pantry now, and you might enjoy that. Also, the kitchen is very important to school children. That room, in particular, because we have a 1920's and a 1930 -- circa 1930, stove and refrigerator, and most children have never seen anything like this. So to have equipment or any part of the house that goes back to such an early date is very interesting and fascinating; and we enjoy school children coming through the house. And scouts. We've had even the very elderly from some of the retirement homes; they will come in with their walkers or their crutches or whatever and they will sit down, shall we say a spell, and then they'll get up again and go in another room. It's just so much fun to share it with the entire community of all age levels. MS. WATKINS: Do you have a lot of students coming in? MS. FRANCK: Since we just opened, we haven't had too many, but we have in the past and we certainly continue to, will continue to. MS. WATKINS: They want to get over here right away; walk right over. MS. FRANCK: No. It's very important for any of the children of any ages, scouts or whatever, the private schools, public schools, whatever. Mainly, the public schools have been. And the teachers will come and everyone is well supervised in the house, as well. We have docents here in the afternoon from one until four. The last tour begins at 3:30, but we like to share it with the public and that is a way that they can come in and view what is here. MS. WATKINS: It's really exciting to share that with the children, that they can learn that path. MS. HcDANIEL: If any of you want to docent on the weekend, we want to open it on Saturday and we need help, if you have a child, a daughter or sister, anybody who might help us docent. It's strictly a volunteer job. MS. FRANCK: Yes. We are all here on the board very volunteering persons. And Christy is our one wonderful employee as our executive director. She does everything, helping in every manner. She's great. MR. MAYER: I think what's really interesting too about the tourists that we not only tell about the house and the construction and the things that are in the house, but we also tell a history of the area and going back to the early, first people coming here, and give a story or little history of life in the 19 -- the teens and late 1800s, and how people lived; why they came here. I think people really enjoy the tour and that aspect of it. It's kind of like a time machine, you know. We take them back in time a little bit. MS. FRANCK: John is an excellent docent. He is so good at explaining the history of the house and the area. He's one of the best, and we're fortunate to have him. MS. HcDANIEL: He certainly is. He raises his hands to the Heavens and says, follow me, and they all just follow. It's wonderful. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: So you let the ministry win? MR. MAYER: Right. MS. FRANCK: Yes. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: We talked about this at a board meeting a month ago. I grew up in New England where everybody grew up knowing their history and so on, but so many people here are from somewhere else. MS. FRANCK: Exactly. COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's almost impossible to have resource. This has been sort of a, in the back of my mind, kind of project that needs to be before all of our -- the participants, you know, in the families in Naples are getting a little old, and we're going to have to record those oral histories or we're going to lose them. I hope that's something the historical society could do. MS. FRANCK: We do. We have quite a collection of oral histories. COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Duke Turner, he's got great stories. His brother has quite a collection of photographs that he shared with me one time -- MS. FRANCK: Thank you. I'll see if some are not duplicates of what we already have, that perhaps they would not mind sharing with us and having copies made for our files. But we do have quite an extensive collection of early photographs which we are very delighted for. MR. MAYER: You are certainly aware this is a very unusual part of the country, the growth here, you are involved in that. But there isn't any other place really experiencing growth as we are here. I mean, it's phenomenal, and there are so many new people that don't have a sense of it. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: We met a whole lot of them coming over here a while ago. MS. TUCKER: I'm sure you did. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: The history of Collier County isn't in hard structures. This is an exception. The history of Collier County is really in ways of life and transient ways of life, not necessarily putting down roots and building structures and whatnot. I was mentioning earlier I was a tour guide docent in Hillsborough County and Tampa. MS. FRANCK: Ah, wonderful. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I would actually give four-hour history tours for the City of Tampa. I was docent for Ybor City. I must say that was one of my jobs in college. But you had the hard structures and the history to relate to. And there is so little of that here. Palm Cottage is an anomaly. There we had brick structures from the 1880s, like crazy, I mean, there was no shortage of them. The question is, what do you do with them. Here in Collier County it's tough to go around and point and say, that's where this happened, that's where that person was born. COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd like to tell them who had the sawmill on Fifth Avenue, and they go, what? MS. FRANCK: The what? Excuse me? COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The sawmill on Fifth Avenue. MS. FRANCK: Yes, the sawmill. COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: There was a sawmill on Fifth Avenue is what Duke Turner told me, points down there and shows the spot where it used to be. MS. FRANCK: Well, the first golf course was there, too, on the corner of Fifth and Third there, in that vicinity, and also an airport; an airport was there. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I made a suggestion to the chamber one time, and I might want to renew it in some way. If the chamber is not appropriate, maybe the Historical Society is. But when I was in Tampa they started a certification program. If you wanted to be a tour guide, you could go to a certification program that was two and a half days. You were given the precise history of the Tampa area, you were given instruction on how to board and give tours on a motor coach, and went through all the things you needed to know, because most of the tours we did were motor coach driven tours. So there was a certification. So the companies in town or the hotels in town that had a tour group coming in, could get a list of the certified guides and call them and hire them to actually do it. It did two things. It gave a consistent approach, because, as Pam mentioned with the sawmill, there's fact and there's fiction out there. MS. FRANCK: Yes. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: And the fishing village is a perfect example of that. This is just a sleepy fishing village. Not really. MS. FRANCK: Not really; you are right. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: There was fishing going on but -- MS. FRANCK: Exactly. MR. MAYER: Sport fishing. COMHISSIONER HANCOCK: Right. So the fact and fiction gets weeded out and you know the information being given to the visitor is consistent and true. MS. FRANCK: Yes. That's extremely important. COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: That was kind of a neat process. We need persons to do that. We need anchor points on the tour. We do have the pier and we do have Palm Cottage, which could be done in one area. Unless you can make up about four hours -- and it's almost too far away to go to the Smallwood Store in addition to the pier, because it's spread out. So it's something I think with a few people dedicated to it, a driving tour with four or so points with the ability to get out and see, feel and touch history, maybe it could be the start of something. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: You could also do an east-west tour, a coastal tour and inland tour, because it's such a diverse -- difference. You know, the Smallwood area and Chokoloskee, and of course, the wash house coming on line in Everglades City, Robarts Ranch in Immokalee. It's totally two different areas. MS. FRANCK: That's right. Well, in our area, too, the building that Fantozzi's is in, is quite old, and also the Wind in the Willows. I understand they just moved. But that building was a commercial building and it's quite interesting. But 1919, or something in that area -- MS. TUCKER: It was built by Mr. Crayton. MS. FRANCK: Was it really? Thank you, Jane. MS. TUCKER: He sold it to the first person who occupied it as a grocery store was the Boltons. MS. FRANCK: Oh, yes. MS. TUCKER: But Mr. Crayton built it originally. COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: You have to have something they can see and touch. Standing in a former site is a second best. You would prefer being in something that's still here. I don't think it would be that difficult to do, particularly in a volunteer association. I sit on two separate boards. We are the same as you are. The board members are volunteers; they are not decision makers. In other words, we are the workers. It's tough to find people willing to do that kind of thing. But there's a lot of history that's still here right now that people still recall, and you need to get all that down and do a concise format. MS. FRANCK: Yes. We do, we have a lot of people, a number of people connected with the Historical Society have been doing that through the years. So those that have expired, we do have their wonderful stories. But still there are more, as you mentioned. I don't know if anyone has interviewed the Turners, and I'll check in on that. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: They have great stories. COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Just don't send anyone from the City to interview them. MR. MAYER: There's varied history of use of a building. MS. FRANCK: Jane, you were mentioning that the Craytons built -- was that the Wind in the Willows you were referring to? MS. TUCKER: Yes. The mercantile, dry goods, all that kind of stuff. MS. FRANCK: Yes, yes. Well, you know, as a historical society, we are very concerned about so many of the wonderful old houses that are being sold and torn down and new buildings put -- new residences put up. In recent years, it has come to my attention that some of the people that are our elderly citizens feel pressed into selling because their taxes have so increased. And I just, in my mind, I'm wondering -- pardon? COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That must be in the City. MS. FRANCK: Yes, it is in the City. Sorry about that. But right now, I'm talking about, you know, historical matters, wherever they may lie in the community. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: I think she meant property taxes, Tim, but very well said. MS. FRANCK: It's something that, it's a problem. I hate to see these elderly people that have lived in these wonderful old houses for years and years and years feel forced to sell them, sometimes for a very small amount compared to the true value, and then have them torn down. It would be nice if there could be something that could aid them, through grants or historical places, maybe have stipulations of what percentage, you know, that '- MS. WATKINS: There are incentive programs in the City. MS. FRANCK: But I'm talking about this area, though, Bern. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: The City of Naples tried that, you know, that's how we got the one sign that says historical district. The City Council had designated an historic area. This was maybe five or ten years ago, I guess, and it was the property owners themselves, as I recall it, who were the strongest in opposition. MS. FRANCK: Which seems a paradox, in a way. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: It's an absolute paradox to me. But they were concerned that they wouldn't be able to sell their property to be torn down for a new structure, and that that was a loss of their private property rights. MS. FRANCK: I think I remember. MS. WATKINS: There are wonderful incentive programs that you can do -- in other cities that you can do or -- you can do up to 400,000 worth of renovations in a year -- COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: And not lose the designation. MS. WATKINS: Right. It's very interesting. I studied that for an ordinance once and there are a lot of things that you can do with them. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: There's a lot of interest in it, you know. It just requires almost door to door neighborhood calls to make people -- to take away their fear. MS. FRANCK: Thank you, Bern, for that idea, thought, that you've done some research on. It's very good. MS. WATKINS: We don't even have a city ordinance, you know. MS. FRANCK: I know. And this is something, if the public -- do you think if the public became more aware of the value -- many are, but perhaps more so -- of the value of our wonderful old structures, that something could be done that they would be in favor of viewing the fact that persons do need help in this area, and that something could be done to encourage the houses to remain, even if an estate is settled, that the value somehow, something could be worked that way, especially in the historical district. For instance, I don't know how many of you might have been to Carmel, California. It's one of the most charming towns. There aren't highrises anywhere. Everything is so pristine; it's beautiful. And they must have -- perhaps we should write to them to ask how they have managed to keep their precious little town or city in its great state. And I just think it's so important that we protect what we have, because soon it would be lost if something isn't done. And also, there are, in other countries, there are areas where they have very strict -- perhaps too strict for us -- but strict regulations. For instance, I lived in Florence, Italy. I was studying there for a school year, two semesters. I keep going back because I love it so. But they have such a stringent regulation for the roof repairs. They are all covered with Mediterranean tiles, and if any would be leaking, they have to repair it with the very same tile. They can never redo a whole surface a different roof line. So that anyone that is looking out of their windows at the whole city, it is like one beautiful piece of art. You see nothing but wonderful different levels of the roof line, but all the same material. For us, that might be certainly carrying it too far, but they treasure what they have. It isn't like London or Paris. They've got these giant modern buildings right next to these wonderful historical buildings. And it's something I think that would add to Naples all the more, if we would, and like little Carmel, which is so precious, just let's, if we could somehow -- maybe "educate" would be the word -- inform or make people aware of the value of preserving what is old here and has architectural interest. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: The first time -- well, not the first time I was at Palm Cottage, but one of the early times was with Collier, and I would strongly encourage you to get that going again because that's a real -- you know, those are emerging leaders in Collier County and you make them talk about Palm Cottage and then a whole lot of -- you know, they go out in the community so much and can share the __ MS. FRANCK: Uh-huh. MR. LIEBER: One of the biggest advantages we have is the fact that this is on the way to the pier and there are so many people just standing out there that are looking at the cottage, and now that it's now open after years and saved, it's just -- COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think the first step toward getting public support for anything like that is educate them on something like that, so they don't walk by. We talked a little bit at our meeting about a month ago about exploring CDC monies to use this as one of the promotional things. We talk about the Everglades, we talk about different things that are promoted in the area, trying to promote the history of the area, too, so that this is one of the stops that people want to see when they get here. The state statute allows historical items. I don't know if the current portions of Collier County does, depending on how we do that, we could either craft it -- and Mr. Weigel could help me with this -- we could either craft it in such a way that it is promotional so that it falls under the current category, or we could give the voters the opportunity to change what's allowed under our current tax expenditures and open it up to them. One of the advantages of putting it to the voters is, there's a three to four month educational process, where we have a chance to get our message out to them. The great thing is, there is no additional tax. There's nothing new. It's just, do you think this is appropriate. It's kind of a neat -- from an election standpoint, it's a neat thing, because I don't really see anybody out there who can be on the other side. COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: I think that regardless of which avenue you use to increase funding, one of the key mistakes I think that are made and some of these are similar elsewhere, is you have to recognize what we are, first and foremost. We are not like a European town built in the 17th century. MS. FRANCK: That's right. COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: We don't have a uniform characteristic that's carried throughout Collier County or even throughout the City of Naples. The period in which we grew, which is our period, is 1950 through 1970. The overwhelming architecture of the area is from 1950 forward by volume alone. We don't even have a small part of our town MS. WATKINS: 1950 is not to be remembered as much, as far as I'm concerned, really. COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: That's not my point. MS. WATKINS: I really -- it's hard to get excited about preservation for 1950 buildings. MS. FRANCK: Yes, because that's -- go ahead. Let him finish. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's not preservation for -- COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: My point is -- MS. WATKINS: Go ahead. COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: My point is, if you are going to try a blanket approach, you have to have a blanket condition. Here, we don't. What we have are spot areas or buildings or locations that are worthy of preservation, but not a blanket area worthy of preservation. So I think if you're going to try and build your best chance of success, you have to do it with those areas we deem priority areas or priority locations. So when you read a regulation -- again, you mentioned even roof tiles. Be careful you don't promote something that goes beyond what is worthy of protection, because I think that's where a lot of these efforts in other areas have failed, because they tried to go into so much that people did feel it was an intrusion into areas that were not necessarily target areas. But you have to be specific about what it is and when you're done, you want it set aside, protected and preserved. Once you've done that, you can decide the level, whether it be regulation, financial -- the effort you have to make, to create a reality. So I would just offer that as a precaution in looking at a more broad approach to an ordinance, that you don't draw people in as enemies that you originally wanted as -- MS. FRANCK: Certainly, certainly. No, it's something that should benefit everyone in the community. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: What was interesting was when you did the comparison with some of the large European cities -- I use Boston as a point of reference because I grew up in New England. And while you have the skyscrapers next door to some historical place, it's actually interesting from the standpoint of a walk-through district. You have things from 200 years ago next to things from a hundred years ago next to things from yesterday. And they've laid it out very well, of course, it walks through history. But it's interesting to watch, look at the contrast and the changes in that community. And it's representative of the 200 some-odd years of the City of Boston. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I always thought that in Naples, even though we don't have a lot of structures remaining, that it would be nice if somebody could separate the fact from fiction about whether or not there was a sawmill on Fifth Avenue South -- MS. FRANCK: Exactly. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- and have some sort of a marker to indicate -- COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Historic sites without history are still a part of history. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- you could do an historical walk in Olde Naples and tell the story of our history. MR. MAYER: Another thing that's interesting, we were just in Savannah last year. It was interesting to walk through Savannah. You think this is how Savannah must have looked 150 years ago, or whatever, but you know that's not the case. We found out that many of the homes in that historic district have been brought into that historic district from other areas, restored and brought in. So we've got a vacant lot next door. It would be interesting somehow or another when the house -- and there was an historic house torn down over on Fourth Street and Broad -- and if you had even some lots available and say look, is there somebody that would be willing to take that -- let's put that house somewhere in the historic district. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: There's a project. MR. MAYER: But I mean, they have done it in some areas. When you see something being torn down, try to find a place for it and put it somewhere. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The Historical Society would have to buy the next lot. I don't know if you're ready. MS. FRANCK: No. First we want to get this house paid off. But yes, that is in the future, that we would like to, possibly. MR. LIEBER: That has happened to an extent at the museum because we have several cottages that have been moved there and are being used for various purposes, and I also sit on that board. Now everybody knows. But it's very significant if you think back to what they have done. But it's still a problem, I think, with anything historical. It's like business. If you don't get your advertisement out and hype it up, you know, it's just going to sit and nothing is going to happen. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: It could be the best price in the world, but if nobody knows, it doesn't matter. MR. LIEBER: Doesn't matter. I hear that all the time from the various groups. You've got to do your homework and your P.R. MR. MAYER: Jack, tell them what you're doing. You're working on a full project, an ongoing thing. MR. LIEBER: I got involved about a year ago and they called me -- I wasn't on the board then -- and wanted to have a garden designed for outside. So I did that, and one thing led to another, and so here I am. COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Never do a good job; it will always come back to haunt you. MR. LIEBER: Well, it didn't get built, you see, so it's my responsibility. So I tapped the Garden Club this year and I thought well, I'm going to ask for the full amount and see where we go. It was, you know, a $5,000 bill. And we got the ,2500 with their promise that next year they'll come back with the same. And you know, it goes back to the story if you don't ask, you're not going to get anything. If you don't advertise, nobody is going to know about you. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Right. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: You guys, this house is the focal point for whatever is going to happen in the community about historical preservation -- MS. FRANCK: Thank you. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: -- this is the focal point. MR. MAYER: What I was going to get at, Jack, it will be interesting. We'll be able to actually put a tour through the cottage and then when this thing is completed, take people out and tour the grounds and show them what native plants look like, what's here, so they can identify those plants. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: You take someone who has done a real good job with that, there at the beach. Anita Eisenbut (phonetic) has actually drawn herself the plants, and they are all native, and they've marked them, and it's -- MR. LIEBER: We have that out at the museum, too. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: That's right. In hindsight, I would like to pick that museum up and move it somewhere more prominently, because so few people know about it because of the location. It was a good decision, because having it there made the difference between having a museum and not at that time. But wouldn't it be nice to have that fronting Tamiami Trail or whatnot. The location, it has definitely suffered, even though as much business as it gets -- COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Should have bought up that Ryder truck place. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I have one other question. We are obviously at Palm Cottage. What other properties do you have? What are your other plans? Anything else, or what's the big picture? MS. FRANCK: Yes. After we get this house, the restoration costs paid back from the Second Chance Foundation -- by the way, they loaned the funds to finish up the house. We were at, for instance, at a point of no return. We were given an estimate of approximate cost to restore the house, given we had termite problems. But once they removed the floorboards and saw the underpinnings of this structure that was also so badly damaged with termites, it was going to cost us another $200,000, and we didn't really have the funds; we didn't know whether to just board the place up. It was, as I say, it's like flying in a plane and you're at a point of no return. You keep going forward or you go backward. very fortunately, the Second Chance Foundation decided to give us the funds at 2 percent interest, but we have to pay it back in five years. So we are trying to do, in every area that we can, fundraising for Palm Cottage, to pay this back, to keep our obligation. And in fact, this year, in January was our first payment, but that payment was only to be the interest of 2 percent. We, however, paid back 20,000, which wasn't due until next year. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: That's wonderful. MS. FRANCK: So we feel we're really -- in January. So we feel that, you know, we're putting -- we're being very earnest in our obligation. COHHISSIONER HAC'KIE: Do you have goals for other properties? MS. FRANCK: Yes. To answer you, leading up to this -- thank you. Yes. After this is paid off, we would like to acquire other properties, funds provided to protect them, perhaps have docents, which we have a wonderful group now. And it should be enlarging, as time goes on, to show people through those houses. We haven't really natrowed down exactly what we will be doing as far as with these acquired properties. There are perhaps many avenues for their use. MS. WATKINS: The one directly in back of us -- MS. FRANCK: Pardon? MS. WATKINS: -- the old Dupont property, is very -- we might not even, I mean, sometimes I feel like we should jump ahead and go ahead and buy this property if we get the funds, because we all know what will happen if we don't. And so it's really a worry before we even pay back our debt. MS. FRANCK: Yes. Well, that probably would be way out of our reach for a number of years to come, because it is quite expensive. MS. WATKINS: But you never know. There might be somebody out there. It could rain money tomorrow. MS. FRANCK: In fact, that would be wonderful. MS. WATKINS: I'm not giving up yet. MS. FRANCK: Yeah. But for instance, the property next door immediately west of us, the old Crayton house, we had hoped to buy that, but they would not sell. And eventually, we all know what happened to it. It was a charming house and it would have been just wonderful to have it as adjacent to Palm Cottage. It would have been quite easy to maintain because of being right next door, et cetera. But now, it would be great if we could even buy the property and we could extend it into a garden area, and we could have -- bring parties there and could walk right across the lawns, have them joined for Palm Cottage. We would be very pleased if the owners would decide to sell to us. Not -- we can't afford it right at the moment, but in the future, as our funds would provide, it would be great, because it is a historical spot. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: There are -- the establishment of a trust for tax purposes that allows for various types of donations and living wills -- because it's something -- you're dealing with real property, and if you have somebody pass, the estate taxes, they could kill the kids, and they have to go out and sell the property to raise funds to pay the estate taxes on the inheritance -- COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Under 501(c)3. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: But it's not just 501(c)3. There are trusts that can be established -- and, Pam, you know more about it than I do -- there are trusts that can be established that can be included in living wills that actually give a tremendous tax benefit break to the survivors. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: It's called charitable remainder. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: That's something when you're dealing with real property, it can just be a transfer of paper with tax and value benefit -- MS. FRANCK: That's a very good idea. Thank you. MR. MAYER: We need to do a lot of things. That's really a good point. We have -- planned giving and so forth is something that we have really not gotten into. We would love to. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: We're dealing with it now. We've been here since the early 1900s, and we're just now getting '- MS. WATKINS: Many families are getting into it, too. MS. FRANCK: Well, we just brought it up more or less in the last few board meetings, thinking about it, you know, the idea. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: But you might want to make a presentation to the Estate Planning Council because that's all the lawyers. Frankly, those guys, those lawyers have a lot of -- you know, here's a list of good ideas; you might want to give charitable remainders. MS. FRANCK: Uh-huh. Thank you. Wonderful idea. MS. WATKINS: But that is one picture, if we could start buying up these old properties -- also, there does need to be a picture here in Naples. I've just moved here five years ago and I live here now, and I don't like where there are lots of people doing things that are just not done in good taste. And if you are going to be in Olde Naples, I think we should have some restrictions. And like, for instance, the tourism, that building where you come in, the tourism building, speaking about some of these old houses that have been torn down, it would be absolutely lovely if you could take one of the old houses before it's torn down and make that into your building, your tourism building. But where we have it now, excuse me, but it's really tacky. But that could be -- I mean, we should all get involved to -- COHMISSIONER NORRIS: The Naples Visitors Bureau? MS. WATKINS: Yes. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: That used to be a gas station; it was a whiskey store one time, too. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: By the way, that's a huge step up from where it was. MS. WATKINS: But these are pictures that the historical society should get involved in and help with bringing up our image. That, to me when I see that, that doesn't do the job. We should have a better image in Naples. I'm speaking in Olde Naples, too. But -- CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Are you primarily concerned with just in the City of Naples? MS. FRANCK: We are the Collier County Historical Society, so it should be for the entire county. We can't be narrow in where our attention should go. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: That's the reason I asked what is the big picture, because you have a tremendous size of county here, that has a lot of different areas that -- and I'm looking strictly at the big picture; I'm not trying to take away from here. MS. FRANCK: Uh-huh. And that's important; it's very important. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: You need to look at your entire county. MS. WATKINS: With green space. You need to get involved with green space. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: But you've got sites located throughout this county that perhaps need to be looked at and given attention. That's why I asked what is the big plan, what is the big picture, and is there a plan for the entire county, as opposed to one section. It's okay, I think, to look here. MS. FRANCK: Yes, because of this being more or less a historical district. But -- CHAIRPERSON BERRY: But what else do you have and what is your overall goal and where do you hope to be in 10 years, 15 years, in terms of the entire county? MS. FRANCK: Yes. Well, I shall tell you this, too. We have a lot of things that we're considering. But since we just opened the house in September, October, we have been inundated. Everything was in storage. We are sorting papers, we're putting a lot of things on the computer. We are overloaded. Being president, I'm down here more than I am at my own home, and this is all volunteer time, trying to get everything back in order, straightened and moving forward. There are so many different areas of where we have interest, but we have to do first things first. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Barbara, I think part of the reason for today was to start that dialogue. We wanted to show off the house but then we wanted -- what do we want to do with the big picture. MS. FRANCK: There are so many areas where we would like to be involved in, and we will get to that. But it's just that right now, you know, we just have to do the very basics and get that rolling again, which we're coming along quite well. Financially, you know, as I said, we paid off more than we were obligated to. And that fundraising right now has absorbed a lot of our attention, because we have this debt we have to take care of. MR. MAYER: You were here, I think, upstairs and looked at some of the archives, those pictures the other day -- MS. FRANCK: Oh, I came in later, after you -- MR. MAYER: And a lot of those -- oh, Jane, you were here. We've got some wonderful things that are in storage upstairs, pictures of down in eastern Collier County, down in Everglades City and throughout the area, some wonderful old photos. You saw that gallery in the hall? Those are wonderful pictures to look at. Some of those are down on Marco and the old clam factory. We've got a box, you can hardly pick up, of photographs that aren't mounted, and we don't have room to really show them here. But we could do more, and I guess we don't have a 10 year plan right now on the board. MS. FRANCK: We're just -- we'll be glad if we get through the five years. We'll make plans after -- soon, we'll make further, more future plans. But right now, we're just getting all of this organized again after being closed for almost two years. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You know, I wondered about those -- two thoughts, just quickly. I was wondering about the photographs, if that there might be -- I mean, they did the Beanie Babies. Maybe you could do some sort of, at the museum, some kind of a demonstration or share some of those photographs more than you have the opportunity to do here. That's something I would take my kids to, you know. COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: You had some lately. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: There's a lot. But you might be flabbergasted about how much there is here and I also know the Turners, one of the brothers was a photographer. He had so much. I was wondering if, Barbara, if there might be some way to work -- I apologize for your old job, but now if the school board, if maybe they should try to do this with the school board to get the history classes, history teachers, some sort of -- MS. RYAN: I talked to the president of the school board extensively about this, and they are very enthusiastic. What we want to do, though, is the problem is the teachers are not prepared. You know, just say come to Palm Cottage. I've been a teacher; I taught for 17 years. I want to give them a packet and say this is how I want you to prepare your kids when you come to Palm Cottage. I want to give them the basic background before they get here. They know that they can't touch all the furniture and, you know, that kind of thing. We are working diligently. We're getting grants to do this kind of writing for them. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: If you had to say to some group of kids or even teachers, here's something, read this, and you'll have some idea of an overview of Collier County history, is there such a publication? MS. RYAN: No. That's what we're working on. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: They have a Florida history part. This could certainly be a part of the Florida history. I think it obviously would have a benefit. But a better benefit is if it's in relationship to the entire state. Now you are taking the state history and you're going to bring it down to what the kids can see and touch most every day, that kind of thing. So that would be the prime time. If you're going to incorporate some of the local history, that would be the time to do it. It makes sense. It's not something that's being done in isolation that the kids see there is no -- why are we doing this. MS. FRANCK: Yes. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: I don't want to go down to that old house, why would I want to do that. But if you have studied about the state itself and some of those aspects, and then you bring it down where it's, oh, okay, well, gee, we've got a place here, you know, on that level, and so it all ties in, and it's relative to something they can understand -- MS. FRANCK: Exactly. COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: The first thing we need to do is eliminate the section on Spanish occupation. The kids don't care. I mean, when they get into Florida history they go so far back that it has absolutely no effect on the kids. It's good as a reference, but -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm not so sure I can agree with eliminating the whole thing. COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Not when they can put it in a proper perspective and usefulness. The history as they lived it, it was not shaped so much by the Spanish as it was by the physical environment. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: But it's got to be a little more relevant. COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: We started with the Spanish, I thought it was modern Florida history and again, so I just think that -- CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Right. COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: -- what we have here could be a little broader. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So maybe working with the curriculum committee with the school board might be a way to develop a curriculum for Collier County history that -- CHAIRPERSON BERRY: It can be a part of and I think that certainly has a benefit. I don't think doing it in isolation -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No point. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: No point. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The commissioners have a schedule, but I just wanted to express my thanks for having us, but -- COMMISSIONER HANCOCK: Likewise. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: But I think you've seen what I indicated a month ago, is that we opened a line of communication and get a little bit of excitement out of the group. I think it's something we are all enthusiastic about. MS. FRANCK: Thank you. COHHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And I don't think we've heard any objection to exploring the CDC option. That's something that I think the key to that or any of the items, just like Commissioner Berry said, we need to look at long range, where we want to go. We need to reach out to the whole county. But that is certainly one item that I think can make a lot of that a reality. MS. FRANCK: Thank you very much. MR. MAYER: Thank you for coming. MS. FRANCK: Well, it's been a delight to have you. And thank you for your ideas. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: This is certainly different than our typical Tuesday luncheon. This is wonderful. Thank you. A real privilege. MS. FRANCK: Well, it is our pleasure, too. MR. MAYER: That's what we wanted to do. COHMISSIONER HANCOCK: Normally, John needs to give us our history lesson. MS. WATKINS: Barbara, we really need some maps of the historical sites, $1. CHAIRPERSON BERRY: Now, what do we need to do? We've done this and maybe you're not 100 percent finished. Where do we go from here on the big picture? Because that's going to generate interest in our own county in preservation and doing those kinds of things, because we are so unique down here. There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 1:30 p.m. BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL BARBARA BERRY, CHAIRPERSON ATTEST: DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK These minutes approved by the Board on , as presented or as corrected TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY KAYE GRAY, RPR