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BCC Minutes 12/02/1997 R REGULAR MEETING OF DECEMBER 2, 1997 OF THE COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS LET IT BE REHEHBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date on 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Timothy L. Hancock Pamela S. Hac'Kie John C. Norris Timothy J. Constantine Barbara B. Berry ALSO PRESENT: David C. Weigel, County Attorney Bob Fernandez, County Administrator Item #3 AGENDA AND CONSENT AGENDA - APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED WITH CHANGES CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Good morning. Welcome to the county commissioner's meeting for Tuesday, December 2nd, 1997. It's a pleasure this morning to start the meeting off with an invocation, and for that, we have Naples' Mr. Paul Jettad of Naples Church of Christ. Mr. Jettad, if I could ask for your blessing and invocation this morning. We'll follow that with the pledge of allegiance. MR. JERRAD: Our Father, which art in heaven, we come before you the and at this time so very thankful for this special time of year, for opportunity that we had in the past week to count our blessings, to share in the bounty of your hand with loved ones. We thank you for the season that is upon us, for the opportunities that will be ours to renew acquaintances, to visit with family and friends, to reflect upon the struggles and the blessings of the past year, and to make plans for the year ahead. We pray that we the for might use this time wisely. For the many things that we're thankful, we're also aware of fact that this is a season of the year that can be very difficult those who do not share as abundantly in the blessings that you have provided some of us, and we pray that we might always be aware of those who are in need and those who need our support. And we pray that you would bless this meeting and other functions of our government, that we might truly exercise our liberty, that we all at might be attentive to one another and seek mutual understanding and compromise in those issues that come up from time to time, that we might come to exercise decisions that are in the best interest of with the realization that all of us must be willing to compromise times. And I pray that we might be a nation in which justice does exist and that that justice will extend to the least in our community and our society, and that each one of us might rejoice in the interest of others, as well as our own. Bless our commissioners and help them with the decisions that they will make. Be with those who will provide them with the information they need to make those decisions wisely. We thank you for all of these things in your name. Amen. the o~lr an do (Pledge) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Jettad, thank you very much for taking time to be with us this morning. Mr. Fernandez, good morning. MR. FERNANDEZ: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: What do we have in the way of changes to lengthy agenda today? MR. FERNANDEZ: We have one addition to our agenda. This is addition to Item 10(B), which is a request for straw ballot on the Cleveland Clinic. This is a request by Commissioner Constantine. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Well, then, we don't really have to add it, we? COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No. It's a given. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Commissioner Mac'kie, do you have any changes to the agenda? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Not a thing. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Norris? COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Nothing today. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry? COHMISSIONER BERRY: Nothing, sir. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine? COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, no further changes. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And none from me. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion we approve the agenda and consent agenda as amended. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? Very weak five, zero there. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Carries two, zero. Item #5B EHPLOYEE SERVICE AWARDS - PRESENTED you CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We are to Item 5(B) on the agenda. Folks, don't blink today, the meeting may be over by the time open your eyes again. We have, fortunately, a service award this morning, and this is a rare one. I'd like to recognize from the Facilities Management Department for 20 years of service, Mr. Robert Tucker. (Applause.) COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Wow. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Congratulations. Thank you. COMMISSIONER BERRY: Thank you very much. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you, sir. MR. FERNANDEZ: Congratulations. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Well, we can't let you, Rob, without saying it's a good start. Good luck on the next 20. Item #7A TERRANCE L. KEPPLE REPRESENTING BOY SCOUT TROOP 274 REQUEST A WAIVER OF SPECIAL EVENTS FEE - TO BE PLACED ON THE CONSENT AGENDA Our next item on the agenda under Public Petitions, Item 7(A) is Terrance Kepple, representing Boy Scout Troop 274, requesting a waiver of special events fee. Am I having dejavu or do we do this every year? COMMISSIONER BERRY: We did this last year when I was here. MR. KEPPLE: We've done it for three years. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Mr. Kepple, could you identify yourself? MR. KEPPLE: Thank you. Terrance Kepple, for the record. I'm scout master of Troop 274 from Vanderbilt Presbyterian Church. As I said, we have done this for the past three years. We have requested a waiver to the special events fees. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Kepple -- MR. KEPPLE: Yes. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: If you don't mind my interrupting, I'd like to say, as one member of the board, I'd like to keep a tradition of the last three years. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion by Commissioner Norris to waive -- or to forward a request of waiver -- just become a consent agenda, am I to assume, Mr. Fernandez; is that correct? MR. FERNANDEZ: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: It wouldn't be a regular -- it would be a consent agenda? car Okay. The motion is to forward the request to the first available consent agenda and a second. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? Motion carries five, zero. We have a hand in the air by Mr. Constantine, so he is on the record as voting for support. Mr. Kepple, thank you for being here, and good luck with the event. MR. KEPPLE: Let me pass out a couple fliers -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Please do. MR. KEPPLE: -- to the commissioners, if I may. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: This is the -- that's right, the antique and truck show up at -- that's always held at Sam's Club. That's right. Free admission for spectators. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I don't know. I think we should report that. Had to say it. Item #SA1 CARNIVAL PERMIT 97-6 REGARDING PETITION C-97-6, COLLIER COUNTY AGRICULTURAL FAIR & EXPOSITION, INC., REQUESTING A PERMIT TO CONDUCT A CARNIVAL FROM JANUARY 9 THROUGH JANUARY 17, 1998, ON THE EAST SIDE OF C.R. 846 IN SEC. 14, T485, R27E - APPROVED WITH STIPULATIONS CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Next item on our agenda, Item 8(A)(1) under Community Development and Environment Services Petition C96 -- 97, dash, 6. Collier County Agricultural Fair and Exposition requesting permit to conduct a carnival January 9th through January 17th. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion and a second. Do we have anyone to speak on that, Mr. Fernandez? MR. FERNANDEZ: No speakers. MR. MULHERE: Only that this is the annual request, and they were asking for several waivers that the Board has traditionally granted, including the application fee and surety bond. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Come one, come all. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Item #SB1 RESOLUTION 97-448, INCREASING THE SPEED LIHIT ON THE SEGHENT OF LOGS/SANTA BARBARA BOULEVARD FROM C.R. 896 (PINE RIDGE ROAD) SOUTH TO THE VICINITY OF HUNTER BOULEVARD FROM 40 HPH TO 45 HPH FOR BOTH NORTH BOUND AND SOUTH BOUND ROADWAYS Next item under 8(B) Public Works, Item Number 1, adopt a resolution to increase the speed limit on the segment of Logan/Santa Barbara from Pine Ridge Road to the vicinity of Hunter Boulevard from 40 to 45 miles per hour. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve. COHMISSIONER BERRY: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Any speakers on this, Mr. Fernandez? MR. FERNANDEZ: No speakers. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Bobanick, any reason we shouldn't do this? HR. BOBANICK: No, none whatsoever. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: That's a good answer. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? Motion carries five, zero. Item #882 BID 97-2740 FOR AIRPORT-PULLING ROAD HEDIAN IRRIGATION REFURBISHHENT AWARDED TO HORTICULTURAL INDUSTRIES, INC. - APPROVED IN THE AMOUNT OF $65,170.74 Again, under Public Works 8(B)(2), request to award the Airport Pulling Road median irrigation refurbishment bid 97, dash, 2740 to Horticultural Industries. Mr. Bobanick, is there anything odd about this, because it looks very straightforward? MR. BOBSICK: It's -- it is the refurbishment of the irrigation system on the northern segment of Airport Road from Golden Gate Parkway up to about the Chevrolet place up there. And the current irrigation system, the vendor that had it has gone out of business, and we're having trouble with maintenance on that and need to replace the entire system. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: That's the one that has the moisture indicators -- MR. BOBANICK: Yes. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- that operates solely off of those, and once you have no one to service those, you're -- MR. BOBANICK: Right, and they're solar operated. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. That explains -- I was going to ask why are we refurbishing it so soon, and that explains that. Any questions of Mr. Bobanick? Speakers on this item, Mr. Fernandez? MR. FERNANDEZ: No speakers. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve. COHMISSIONER BERRY: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: There is a motion to approve and a second. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? Motion carries five, zero. Thank you, Mr. Bobanick. Item #10A RESOLUTION 97-449, APPOINTING RUFUS WATSON TO THE BLACK AFFAIRS ADVISORY BOARD - ADOPTED Next item under 10(A), appointment of a member to the Black Affairs Advisory Board. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Well, I'm happy to go to the recommendation of the committee to appoint Rufus Watson. It isn't somebody I know. I do know Fred Morgan, and know just how well served we would be with him on the committee, but hesitate to go against their recommendation. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Is that a motion? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah, motion to approve the -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- committee's recommendation. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and second. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? Item 10B REQUEST FOR STRAW BALLOT REGARDING THE CLEVELAND CLINIC - DENIED in and We are to Item 10(B), an add-on by Commissioner Constantine, excuse me, a request of a straw ballot regarding Cleveland Clinic. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Um, this is fairly straightforward. The -- this is an issue that each of us has heard a great deal on the last year, year and a half, but over the last couple of weeks, I've had seven or eight speaking engagements with different civic homeowner groups. And with each and every one of them, without fail, the number one concern has been, is Cleveland Clinic coming, how can we effect that, why is the state ignoring us. Everybody is asking, inquiring, what is the process. Some of them think it's a county decision as opposed to a state decision, but they're very frustrated. There was a lot of concern -- they had their public hearing last year, 500 people showed up, and yet they appear not to be heard by the state. The issue is not only about health care, it has a lot of economic impact and so on, but, obviously, health care is the primary issue. It seems to me, this is a way -- this is the strongest way possible we can make sure that the bureaucrats in Tallahassee hear the desire of the community, and I think from -- each of us can only speak with a lot of homeowner groups and civic groups, and I assume you've heard similar things or similar questions. And it's an overwhelming majority, it's not someone raising their hand in a group, it's the entire group, everywhere I go, is worried about this. The great thing here, Mary Morgan needs to send out a mailer to the voters in January anyway, and if we piggyback that, we have virtually no postage cost. Mary has requested we provide a window-style envelope for the mailer so she can put the extra piece in there, and, obviously, we need to create the wording and what the ballot itself would say. I just think it's an ideal opportunity for us to get the message as clearly as possible and as strongly as possible across to the state. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I guess where I -- on the surface, I can't disagree with you, I mean, because people are asking me all the time, you know, who can we call, who can we talk to, to the point that I almost requested a handful of Burt's business cards because, you know, I keep telling them this is a decision at the state level, and the individuals who govern and who determine the budgets and the roles that those state agencies play are your state legislators and your state cabinet members. I guess -- I guess, honestly, we can do a straw ballot and it will come back, I think, significantly showing the tremendous amount of community support for Cleveland Clinic. And I think we have already done what we, as elected officials, can do, which is express the majority of our constituents' requests to the state on at least two occasions? And I'm not sure even a nominal additional expense is warranted, so I'm just -- it's one of those -- I'm trying to look what it accomplishes, and I feel like -- COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let me try to answer that a little bit. In the -- I know we've sent a couple letters, and a letter from the commission is one thing, particularly when you're dealing with state bureaucrats in Tallahassee, but if you have a message that has come from thousands of voters and the numbers come in, I assume it would be an overwhelming majority from the response we've gotten from the civic and homeowner groups, I just think that delivers a much stronger message than a single letter from us. Very, very hard for someone to ignore that CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Hac'kie? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: My question, because, you know, I'll try the to avoid the speech because I agree it's a good idea, any method we can use to communicate the desires of the public is a positive. I have a couple of questions; one is would it do any good, and I'm not convinced that it would because that -- I don't think that issue is decided by public opinion or by popular opinion. I don't think that's what that organization, in deciding whether or not to issue a Certificate of Need, is particularly persuaded by. And setting that aside, the position that this board has taken couple of times is if there is a decision that a Certificate of Need should be issued in Collier County, we would prefer it be issued to Cleveland Clinic as opposed to Colombia. I'm afraid if you do a ballot question, even a straw ballot, people will get confused about whether or not they're being asked to support competition for hospitals or, you know, is this a pro NCH or anti NCH vote. The question is not so clear because there is, first, a threshold question of should a Certificate of Need be issued, and, if so, to whom. And if the first decision had already been made thou shalt - you know, there shall be a C.O.N. issued for and there shall be competition for hospitals in Collier County, then what's your preference would be an easier question to answer. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Really, I'm under the impression that it has been, and the question at this point -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But it's under appeal. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Right. The appeal process is to whom will that be awarded. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Actually, the appeal is more complicated than that. As I understand it, the appeal is shall there be a CON, and, if so, to whom. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: NCH's appeal? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right. NCH has appealed the question of whether or not, so, you know, it is not a simple question to put out. I'll the So I have two objections. restate them; one, I'm not sure that it would bear any fruit, and there is some expense associated; and, second, I'm not sure that question can be clearly framed so the people will know what they're being asked. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Again, just an effort to answer your question. When you say if a C.O.N. is required or is needed, then it makes the question easier, and I think there are two answers to that; one, the state has said yes it is, there are extra beds needed here, and at this point, it certainly appears the question is, will it be Colombia or will it be Cleveland that provides those extra beds. I realize NCH is appealing that process, but I think common sense says with the community growing, last year we grew 7 percent, regardless of whether it's today that that's declared or a year from now or two years from now, there is no question additional hospital beds are going to be needed in Collier County. And for the state to ignore that or NCH to ignore that or this board to ignore that I think would not be a very good idea. We'd be ignoring the facts, and that is we continue to grow and just like road needs and everything else we're trying to address, hospital needs are going to grow as well. But I think the state has made it a fairly clear indicator. As far as Certificate of Need, there is a very specific process that is gone through, a very detailed process that is gone through, to determine whether or not there is a need for additional beds. And it appears that hurdle has been left. At this point, we just need to determine which of the providers is the one that the state will give that to, and that whole appeal process will play itself out in the coming months. But, again, I just think if the public can have a strong voice in that, we certainly should provide that for them. I just can't think of a stronger way to get our message across to the state. COMHISSIONER BERRY: Mr. Chairman? CHAI~ HANCOCK: Yes, Commissioner Berry. COMMISSIONER BERRY: Does this confuse the issue in the terms of it but the role of the county commission in this particular affair? That's my -- part of my concern. Is this something that we need to be involved in? Granted, after you get this information, then what? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Honestly, that's what I'm wrestling with is what is our role. And I know our role as representatives is one thing, but I tie that representation to what is the job of local government. In other words, when there are those things handled at a state level and we have conveyed a request by our constituents, whether be by letter form or whatnot, I was very comfortable doing that, it was -- I think going beyond that to have some type of a straw ballot, I think does -- it's a little misleading because I don't think that we can take that and actually have an impact at the state level. And if we all -- I think I'm hearing most people agree that that won't have much of an impact at the state level and therein lies a problem. You know, the strongest message that could have been sent we didn't do because it wasn't our job, Cleveland Clinic did it. You guys have been at ground breakings that you need 10 sets of hands to count, but I've never been to one with 1,000 people. I've never been to one with a turnout that went as far as from Sanibel all the way down to Marco Island. And Lieutenant Governor Buddy McKay was there, and if he wasn't sent home with a message from this community by over 1,000 people at a ground breaking, I mean, the facility is not even built at a ground breaking, I don't know if we can send a stronger message to those that are in the position to make those decisions. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, the unfortunate reality is Buddy doesn't make the decision now, and the bureaucrat who ultimately has that decision not only wasn't there, he wasn't at the public hearing specifically for this purpose last year in this room. And that's my concern is the one who makes that decision hasn't been a part of any of that, and I don't know that that bureaucrat clearly understands how strongly this community feels about it. And that's my whole purpose in doing this. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Isn't it more than one bureaucrat who makes that decision? COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, it's a department or someone at the top of that who ultimately makes that decision. There's a little board. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: There's a board, and I don't think any of them are elected, and I don't think they're going to get real excited about electorate. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No, but reality dictates it's very hard when, if an overwhelming majority turns out in one direction, to is we ignore that. I think it's much easier to ignore a letter from a county commission. I know you have a good point when you say is it our role to do this. It's a state issue to deal with Certificate of Need, but it our role to shape the future of Collier County, and I'm just hard-pressed to think of a more important issue than future health care in Collier County. And if we can send a stronger message than have, I think we should. I think the community feels very strongly about it, and I think this will send a much stronger message that what we have said. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Have you considered that this ballot question will cause a campaign of sorts from Naples Community Hospital from Colombia and from Cleveland that will be a cost to all of those companies because they're not going to sit back and wait for the public to make a decision. It's going to become a political campaign for those three entities, and since, right now, we have one hospital, NCH, I don't want to pay for that campaign when I go to the Emergency Room. So there is -- there may not be much of a cost to us, but I think there is a community cost. I just now thought of it. I'm sitting here picturing what shows up in my mailbox the week that this does, and it will be a three- page, you know, multi-colored brochure from everyone and their mother trying to sell themselves as the reason for voting one way or the other. And I think, all in all, what makes this a tough decision to say no to is, I have heard how strongly is saying -- a great number of our community is saying we want Cleveland Clinic instead of Columbia, but that still is not our decision to make. We've conveyed that support, I think, to the level of our responsibility. I think going beyond this, we are really getting into an area that I would like to see our state representatives pick up and take charge because, again, they are the ones that are closest to the of was decision makers in this process. They, too, are elected representatives, and I think it really falls to them on these kind state issues, state decisions, to carry that charge and not to this board. And I think that's where I'm going to fall. It's just difficult because I don't disagree with you that we I wish there were a stronger way to do it that I think was in -- within the confines of our responsibility, and that's where I'm going to say that I don't think this is a direction we should take. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I agree. I don't know what the majority -- COMHISSIONER NORRIS: My concern would be -- I think it's a good idea to have a straw ballot send a strong message, but I'm afraid that it might get misconstrued by the public. My concern would be that, we would have straw ballot, we would overwhelmingly show support for Cleveland Clinic, and then if the agency for health care administration ignored that, as well as everything else they've ignored, then I think the county commission would get the blame for not carrying through on what the public voted for. Is there a danger in that? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I give more credit to the voter, I guess, in that I think as long as the issue is clearly explained, most people -- I'm sure someone will get that confusion, but I think most people will understand as long as we do our job and our friends in the media do their job, they'll understand it's a state decision that we're trying to give the public an opportunity to influence that decision. And I don't worry too much if someone is upset with us or tries to blame us for something. That unfortunately happens every Tuesday. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Actually, Wednesday. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You noticed. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: You know, if the board feels strongly that we don't need to be doing this, then that's fine. I feel very strongly we should send the absolute strongest message to the state, and I think by doing this at very little expense, we can do that. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Do we have any idea of the expense, by the way? Does anyone have any idea? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Again, the only cost, after my discussion with Ms. Morgan, are window envelopes and actually printing up some sort of ballot. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Plus counting them when they come back. There will be some time involved there and so forth. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: What does that entail? How many dollars? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Matter of thousands as opposed to - at single-digit thousands as opposed to the 130,000 because we're piggybacking the postage, which is our biggest cost. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Rather than this discussion, because I hear least three or maybe four members of the board saying maybe this is area that we shouldn't go into, and, again, we are a county commission, and I feel very strongly that those decisions that are made in the state or federal level that, by voice and vote, as we have done in the past, we have represented the majority of correspondence we have received asking us to take a position. And that position, very clearly, was that we're not in the business of determining whether there should or there shouldn't be hospital beds, but we are in the business of conveying our constituents' requests and feelings, and we've done that twice in writing. I think the time is right to look at our state legislators, our state cabinet, and say it is now your job to listen to the people that you represent. And I don't consider that passing the buck. I consider it placing the responsibility where it belongs. And so rather than this -- I appreciate you bringing it up on the and standpoint that -- at the Cleveland Clinic, somebody came up to me said, well, I'm finally glad you, you know, you guys took a position. And I thought we've taken a position, formally, by vote so, you know, I'm not going to support it, but I hope the -- what's relayed to the voters or the residents of this county is yeah, we heard you; yeah, we passed it on; and, yes, there are outlets out there still available to you at the state level that you can pursue. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll go ahead and make a motion that we approve a straw ballot for the public to have an opportunity to share their preference as far as the group that should provide health care that a Certificate of Need be awarded in Collier County. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: There is a motion on the floor. Is there a second on the motion? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Do we have any speakers on this item? MR. FERNANDEZ: You do have one speaker, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Gil Erlichman. MR. ERLICHMAN: Good morning commissioners. Gil Erlichman, elector and taxpayer in Collier County, and I'm speaking for myself. I'm a volunteer at the Naples Community Hospital and have been since 1988, and I've done work there in the microfilm, the business office, the county, and at present, I drive a courtesy car, golf cart, that takes people from the parking lot to the main entrance on Wednesday. So if you get there on Wednesday morning, you might be passenger in my golf cart. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: You want to avoid that Wednesday is the day not to go to the hospital. MR. ERLICHHAN: You can be a visitor. I am very, very pleased that Mr. Constantine has seen fit to bring this issue before the public again in the form of a straw ballot. I -- I can see nothing but good coming from a hospital group like Cleveland Clinic being in place in Collier County. At present, we have a monopolist called the Naples Community -- Naples Community Health Care Association or Health Care Corporation, something like that, but it's a huge monopolist, and it's a virtual monopoly on health care in Collier County. And I believe that having another hospital come in here, having another source of health care providing competition will do nothing but improve the situation of health care in Collier County, and I highly endorse Mr. Constantine's idea of a straw ballot. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Erlichman. We have a motion and second on the floor. Is there further discussion on the motion? COMMISSIONER BERRY: After we get this information, what exactly are we -- if this is approved, what are we going to do with it? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: My understanding is February -- somebody can help me with the date, third, second, sixth, somewhere in there, there is another public hearing scheduled for -- similar to last year's public hearing. COMMISSIONER BERRY: Here? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Here. I think if we had an opportunity to do -- to return in that time frame, I think Mary's ballot is going out early to mid-January, due date could be a similar time there to have fairly dramatic impact with the state if the results were available in the same time line as that public hearing. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I can almost hear it now, the bureaucrat, as the we referred to this individual, or group that has ignored or apparently ignored our letters, apparently ignored the letters of people of this community, gets that information, looks at it and says, gee-whiz, that's really nice but, you know, that can't be a part of my is decision and sets it in that pile on the left, and that pile goes right in the trash can. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: And meanwhile the cost to the community just not able to be measured. I mean, this is a tremendous debate that will result in a great amount of confusion and misunderstanding because it's a -- you know, I guess I'll draw an analogy to the business about the ethics committee. It's similar to that in that there is a state process. The state process is underway that -- it's complicated. It takes a long time, but we need to let that process work itself out. In this case, I would suggest to you -- COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Pick and choose. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No, Tim, this is different, and I guess I'm trying to use your own argument to support my position in this case because you need to let that process work itself out instead of put what appears to be a simple question in front of the public when it is not simple. I thought that hospital competition issues were extremely simple until the leadership Florida seminar on that issue, and it's quite complicated. And it's just not fair to put a simple question out in and front of the public on a question that's really quite complicated. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I appreciate that, and I guess my thought is the public is pretty bright, they selected each of us, we entrusted them to be able to make that decision -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'm not sure those two statements go together. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The point is we entrusted them to COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Nevertheless, there's more. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I don't think that by providing them -- allowing the potential providers of hospital care to provide them it with information is going to confuse them. I think, if anything, will assist in them more clearly understanding the issue. I think you're right; there is a state process that needs to unfold, but if we can have an influence in that process and, more importantly, if our public can have some influence in that process, they ought to because I'm hard-pressed, again, as I said before, to think of a more important issue to the future of this community than health care. COMMISSIONER BERRY: Tim, do -- does the public have any input into this process? I mean, that is a question that I have wrestled with even back at the time when the letter was sent on behalf of the commission. You know, do they get this and as Mr. Hancock said, place it over in this other pile over here and say, well, gee, that's very nice, thank you for writing this letter, took 32 cents and a piece of paper and you did your thing. What amount of credits do they give to this kind of thing in weighing this? And, again, it really isn't a simple process, is my understanding either, of what they have to go through up there. There are a lot of things that they have to look at. It's not just public sentiment, they go into a lot of other aspects of the issue as well. I'm not privy to all that information. I don't understand the entire process of doing this, you know, and the Cleveland Clinic versus the -- what's the other group? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Colombia. COMMISSIONER BERRY: Columbia group, you know, you get a profit -- for profit hospital versus a not-for-profit hospital. I mean, all these things come into this and what does this all boil down to and what does this mean. And I don't know what this all means. I do know that the public, for the most part, particularly people who have lived where there is a Cleveland Clinic, obviously have the sentiment for Cleveland Clinic. I happen to live in an area where the Mayo Clinic happens to be a big deal. It's one of those kinds of things. If somebody said the Mayo Clinic was possibly going to come into this particular area, I would probably be kind of impressed from my past experience of knowing what that particular thing is all about. But that's not the case, so it's -- I don't know. I'm just confused as to what our role as commissioners should be in this whole affair and that we get pigeonholed here as being a great influence when, in fact, we really aren't influential in this. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: When you say what does it boil down to, I think the question you started that comment with is what it all boils down to. That's the whole purpose for me bringing this up. You said does the public have the chance to participate in this process, and I think under the existing format, they have a very, very limited opportunity to participate. I think if we go ahead and do this, it gives the public a very real way to participate in the process and I'm convinced that if you have thousands of people return a ballot, it is very hard for the state to ignore that. I know it is not the only criteria, but it certainly becomes a weighted criteria. COMMISSIONER BERRY: But, Tim, it gets down to again -- and all I can go back to is the bridge issue. How are you going to state the ballot question? That is the most important part of the whole thing. You know, if you get down to, you know -- it seems pretty simple, do you want Cleveland Clinic or don't you. You know, if it's that kind of question, but I'm not sure the issue is that simple. And the next thing you know, somebody else gets into the picture and starts diverting information in some other direction regarding this. I just -- I'm struggling with it because of the ballot question. I don't know how you're going to state it -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: My thought would be - COMMISSIONER BERRY: -- or who is going to state it. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: My thought would be this, and if we could get your vote, then I would certainly work with you on the wording. COMMISSIONER BERRY: No pressure here. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I certainly would be glad to work with you on the wording -- COMMISSIONER BERRY: I'm not going to write anything. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- but I would say -- no, no -- I - you understand what I'm saying? COMMISSIONER BERRY: I know. I understand. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think we would want to keep it as simple as possible and say, in the event the state's ultimate decision is -- recognizes a need for further health care hospital beds in Collier County, do you have a preference, Cleveland, and state your choices there; Cleveland, Colombia. This doesn't have to be just a Cleveland issue, this is what's the preference, Cleveland or Colombia? COMMISSIONER BERRY: You have got to understand all the issues. I mean, I just think it takes an entire education as to understand all the implications, whether it's Cleveland Clinic, whether it's Columbia or whether it's XYZ hospital out here. I think you need to understand every one of the implications when you have a ballot question like that. COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Agreed. COMMISSIONER BERRY: And then that gets into, as Chairman Hancock said, all of a sudden now, we've got -- we're going to start going through this -- you know, it's going to be a little bit of a flurry here in terms of trying to get information out, and certainly all three of them, I'm sure, will be doing that. I'm not saying that's necessarily wrong, but is that what we're really trying to generate? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No, but I think that's probably good if information goes out from each of those and the public can make that choice. I have a great deal of faith in the public to sift through that and make a wise decision. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine, did you contact anyone at Cleveland Clinic with this idea? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I did talk to Harry Moon, Dr. Moon, and they're very comfortable with the idea. They're confident that the public is clearly behind them. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I do want to point out, I had a shot to break Norris' record of the shortest meeting, and this item blew it all to pieces, so thank you very much. Any further discussion on this particular item? We have a motion and second on the floor. Call the question. Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Aye. COMMISSIONER BERRY: Aye. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion fails two to three. Item #11A THE PURCHASE OF ADDITIONAL VOTING MACHINES FOR USE IN FUTURE 1998 ELECTIONS - APPROVED to Next item, ll(A), under other constitutional officers, request to approve the purchase of voting machines for use in future 1998 elections. Typically, Mrs. Morgan doesn't have a habit of bringing things us unless they absolutely, positively need to be done. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Motion to approve. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Any further discussion of the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? Mrs. Morgan, thank you for your presentation on that item. Professional, consummate and concise as always. We are to public comment on general topics. Mr. Fernandez, do we have any registered speakers? MR. FERNANDEZ: We have no speakers for this section, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Item #12C1 RESOLUTION 97-450 REGARDING PETITION SNR-97-1, RICH HENDERLONG OF KENSINGTON GOLF & COUNTRY CLUB REPRESENTING ANTON STEINER OF KENSINGTON PARK PUD REQUESTING A STREET NAME CHANGE FROM HIGH STREET TO KENSINGTON HIGH STREET LOCATED IN KENSINGTON PARK, PHASE ONE, PHASE TWO, PHASE THREE A, AND PHASE THREE B OF THE KENSINGTON PARK PUD, IN SEC. 13, T495, R25E - ADOPTED 97, We'll go to advertised public hearing 12(C)(1), petition SNR- dash, 1, Rich Henderlong of Kensington Golf and Country Club requesting a street name change from High Street to Kensington High Street located in Kensington Park. Mr. Mulhere, anyone live on this street yet? MR. MULHERE: I don't know if anyone lives on this street. There have been 44 single-family lots -- yes, there have been some homes constructed. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. MR. MULHERE: However, the developer does still control the majority of those single-family lots and all of those homeowners have been notified, and we have not received any letters of objection. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Name for the record. MR. MULHERE: I'm sorry. My name is Bob Mulhere, current planning manager. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I threw you off by asking you a question before you got that out. Do we have any letters of objection from individuals who have either purchased property or built homes on the street? MR. MULHERE: No, sir. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: They have all been notified? MR. MULHERE: That's correct. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Do we have any speakers, Mr. Fernandez? MR. FERNANDEZ: No speakers. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Close the public hearing? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? Ladies and gentlemen, we are now down to staff communications. Mr. Weigel, anything this morning? MR. WEIGEL: No, nothing. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Just looking forward to a full day of work back in the office. Mr. Fernandez? MR. FERNANDEZ: I have nothing this morning, Mr. Chairman. Item #15A DISCUSSION RESULTING IN RECONSIDERATION OF ITEM #16A1, IN ORDER FOR COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE TO ABSTAIN CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Mac'kie? COHHISSIONER HAC'KIE: I have one -- just a question for -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Not that you're staff. We're actually after Board communications. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I understand. Either way, I don't care. Actually, I'd like to be paid like staff. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Beat me to the punch. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Sorry. I failed to abstain from a vote on the consent agenda. The Pebble Brook Lakes plat is a client of mine, and I need to correct that somehow. Can you tell me how to do that? MR. WEIGLE: Yes, I think so. I think it would be appropriate for the board to -- I hate to make it more complicated than it has to be, and I'm not, but I think the board needs to bring that back for a reconsideration and as a vote to reconsider so that you would have the opportunity to place your vote on that. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: What was the item number on the agenda? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: It's 16(A)(1). COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I make a motion to reconsider Item 16(A)(1). CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Is there a second on the motion? COHMISSIONER BERRY: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? Item is now up for a consideration, Item 16(A)(1). Commissioner Mac'kie, do you have anything you need to -- COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Yes. I need to abstain from that vote, please. It's a client of mine. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve. COHMISSIONER BERRY: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: All those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? Motion carries four, zero. Commissioner Hac'kie abstaining from Item 16(A)(1). COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Thank you. Sorry for interfering with the record of a quick meeting. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: It's already blown. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: It's blown, okay. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thanks. Thank you, Mr. Weigel, for walking us through that. Anything else, Commissioner Hac'kie? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Nothing, thank you. Item # 15B UPDATE REGARDING DISPUTE WITH FORMER COHMISSIONER MATTHEWS Commissioner Norris. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I just ask Mr. Weigel what was the status on our legal dispute with former Commissioner Matthews. MR. WEIGEL: I have reviewed the draft complaint. It's under revision right now. In fact, part of my charge as I leave the meeting today is to try to get it in final form so it may be filed, the complaint in small claims court. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry. COHMISSIONER BERRY: Nothing, sir. Commissioner Constantine. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I have one item relating to Cleveland Clinic. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Did he pay you today? I'm just curious. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think he's referencing John Norris, not the Cleveland clinic. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Good point. It's just a joke. Let's move along. COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just a joke. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's all I have. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I don't have anything either. Ms. Filson, is there anything you would like to do this morning, tap dance, sing, anything on the record? MS. FILSON: No. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, we'll adjourn. (Heeting concluded at 9:55 a.m.) ***** Commissioner Constantine moved, seconded by Commissioner Norris and carried unanimously, with the exception of Item #16A1 that the following items under the Consent Agenda be approved and/or adopted: ***** Item #16A1 AND RECORDING OF FINAL PLAT OF PEBBLEBROOK LAKES - WITH STIPULATIONS CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT Item #16A2 COHMERCIAL EXCAVATION PERMIT NO. 59.620, TWIN EAGLES GOLF AND COUNTRY CLUB IN SECTIONS 17 AND 20, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 27 EAST Item #16A3 RECORDING OF THE FINAL PLAT OF WINTERVIEW COURT Item #16A4 FINAL PLAT OF CARLTON LAKES, UNIT NO. 2 - WITH STIPULATIONS AND CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT Item #16A5 RECORDING OF THE FINAL PLAT OF BERKSHIRE PINES, PHASE ONE - WITH STIPULATIONS, PERFORMANCE BOND & CONTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT Item #16B1 BID 97-2732 FOR SAFETY EQUIPHENT AND SUPPLIES FOR THE WASTEWATER DEPARTMENT - AWARDED TO GRAINGER, INC.; FISHER SAFETY; & SAFECO, INC. Item #1682 THE BID 97-2685 FOR HECHANIZED SIDE TRIHMING ROADSIDE VEGETATION FOR ROAD AND BRIDGE SECTION - AWARDED TO BUCKINGHAM FARMS, INC. Item #1683 & TO WORK ORDER FOR PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING SERVICES TO AGNOLI, BARBER BRUNDAGE, INC. FOR SANTA BARBARA BOULEVARD FROM GOLDEN GATE PARKWAY RADIO ROAD, WORK ORDER NO. ABB-FT98-2, PROJECT NO. 62081 - IN THE AMOUNT OF $35,441 Item #16B4 BUDGET AMENDMENT FOR PREVIOUSLY AUTHORIZED CHANGE ORDER WITH APAC-FLORIDA, INC. FOR VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD FOUR LANING IMPROVEMENTS (BID NO. 95-2438, CIE PROJECT NO. 023), INCLUDING ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR TURN LANE CONSTRUCTION PURSUANT TO RIGHT-OF-WAY ACQUISITION CASE NO. 95-5071-CA-01-TB. - IN THE AMOUNT OF $530,044 Item #1685 AMENDHENT NO. 5 TO PROFESSIONAL SERVICES AGREEHENT WITH HETCALF & EDDY FOR THE NCRWTP 8-HGD EXPANSION PROJECT 70859/70828 - IN THE A_MOUNT OF $41,200 Item #1686 IN A_MENDHENT NO. ONE TO PROFESSIONAL SERVICES AGREEHENT WITH CAMP, DRESSER, HCKEE FOR THE NCRWTP 8-HGD EXPANSION PROJECT 70859/70828 - IN THE AMOUNT OF $15,202 Item #16C1 ADDENDUH TO LEASE BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND TRACT B, INC. FOR CONTINUED USE OF COHMERCIAL SPACE AT MISSION PLAZA, MARCO ISLAND, UTILIZED BY THE LIBRARY DEPARTMENT Item #16C2 BUDGET AMENDMENT AND PURCHASE OF PORTABLE RADIOS FOR PARK RANGERS FROM ERICSSON RADIO COHMUNICATION IN THE AMOUNT OF $34,290 Item #16D1 BUDGET AMENDMENT TRANSFERRING FUNDS INTO THE FACILITIES MANAGEMENT COST CENTER FOR EMERGENCY FLOOD REPAIRS AT THE COURTHOUSE Item #16G1 MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE - FILE AND/OR REFERRED The following miscellaneous correspondence as presented by the Board of County Commissioners has been filed and/or referred to the various departments as indicated on the attached miscellaneous correspondence summary. Item #1611 TOURISH AGREEHENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND THE CITY OF EVERGLADES CITY FOR CATEGORY B2 (SPECIAL EVENTS) FUNDING FOR THE EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN REGARDING THE PARK REDEDICATION the There being no further business for the good of the County, meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 9:55 a.m. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL ATTEST: DWIGHT E. BROCK· CLERK TIMOTHY L. HANCOCK, CHAIRMAN These minutes approved by the Board on presented or as corrected · as TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING SERVICE· INC. BY TRACI L. BRANTNER