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BCC Minutes 11/18/1997 RREGULAR MEETING OF NOVEMBER 18, 1997, OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS LET IT BE REHEHBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: ALSO PRESENT: CHAIRMAN: Timothy L. Hancock Pamela S. Mac'Kie John C. Norris Timothy J. Constantine Barbara Berry Robert Fernandez, County Administrator David Weigel, County Attorney Item #3 AGENDA AND CONSENT AGENDA - APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED WITH CHANGES CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Good morning. I'd like to call to order the Tuesday, November 18th meeting of the Board of County Commissioners. This morning it's our pleasure to have Father Bill Kehayes of St. Katherine's Greek Orthodox Church join us and offer the invocation. Father Bill, if I could ask for your invocation this morning, followed by the pledge of allegiance. FATHER KEHAYES: Blessed is our God always, now and forever more, Amen. Oh, God of ancient prophets and holy martyrs, pour out your spirit upon us in this new day that once again in the hour of our need we may dream dreams and see visions. Thou Lord God of heaven have so lavishly blessed this land and particularly this county in which we live. Keep us aware that the good things we enjoy have come from thee, that you did lend them to us. Hake us your people to be humble and respectful of this land you have placed in our trust. Be mindful, oh Lord, of the Board of Commissioners and the citizens of this county. Bless their labors expended for the common good. Endow them with health, integrity and leadership and service. Hake us worthy of the pride which grows from deeds of kindness done, from justice practiced in our common life, and from a sincere devotion to the rights and dignity of every man before his neighbor. Lift up the hands, oh God, of those who lead this land in the halls of legislature, in the courts of law and position of high honor, that you may know that in you and in you alone is a source of the wisdom they need, the patience that must be theirs, and the devotion on which the welfare of all humankind depends. Through your infinite and universal love, draw us, the citizens of Collier County, out of the every narrow loyalty of your divine fatherhood which makes of us all a family. And if we have strayed from your love and the path of righteousness as you have commanded, reach down and change the years within us that we may go forward with you. Help us to make this God's own country by living as God's own people. Amen. (Pledge of Allegiance recited in unison.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Father Bill, we thank you for being with us, and when is the Greek Orthodox Festival? FATHER KEHAYES: The first weekend in February. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We will be looking for it as we do every year. FATHER KEHAYES: Love to have you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Mr. Fernandez, good morning. MR. FERNANDEZ: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: What do we have in the way of changes to today's agenda? MR. FERNANDEZ: We have two additions this morning, Mr. Chairman. The first is addition Item 9-B. This is a certificate of Collier County Canvassing Board for the November 6, 1997 initial election of city council members submitted for entry in the record of November 18th, 1997 public board meeting. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So if we don't approve that, we just throw them all out of office? MR. FERNANDEZ: I guess that's your choice. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. I don't think that will happen. I was just checking. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Nice to have the option, though. MR. FERNANDEZ: The second addition is Item 9-C. This is the board consideration of settlement offer proffered by Florida Wildlife Federation and Collier County Audubon Society in litigation entitled Florida Wildlife Federation and Collier County Audubon Society v. Collier County and James R. Colosimo, Trustee, Ultimate Land Trust, Circuit Court Case No. 97-2984-CA-01, and Florida Wildlife Federation and Collier County Audubon Society v. Collier County and James R. Colosimo, Trustee, Ultimate Land Trust, Circuit Court Case No. 97-3600-CA-01. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Further changes, Commissioner Mac'Kie? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Nothing, thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Norris. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Not today. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry. COMMISSIONER BERRY: Nothing. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: One item from the consent agenda, 16-H-5. It's a recommendation the BCC approve the use of confiscated trust funds to provide matching funds for a federal grant in the sheriff's department. Growth impact, it says no recurring costs for subsequent years. I just want somebody to verify that for us, because that sounds -- has appeared in the past and then constantly reappeared in future years. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Let's move it to the regular agenda and let's notify the sheriff's office so they can have a representative here to address that. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Assuming that can be confirmed, I don't have any problem. But I just -- we have been real mindful to make sure grants don't come back -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Where would that go? Under eleven, ll-A? MR. FERNANDEZ: Yes, under eleven. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have -- 16-H-5 now becomes item ll-A on the regular agenda, and we will have someone notify the sheriff's office and request their presence on that. Any further changes? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No further changes. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And I have none. Is there a motion? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Chairman, I will make a motion that we accept the agenda and consent agenda with the changes as noted. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I am willing to second that motion. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries unanimously. Item #4A MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING OF OCTOBER 21, 1997 - APPROVED AS PRESENTED Approval of minutes. COMHISSIONER BERRY: I would like to move approval of the October 21st, 1997 regular meeting minutes. COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries five-zero. Item #5A1 PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING MRS. CHRISTINA LONG FOR HER OUTSTANDING COMHUNITY SERVICE FOR THE DONATION OF 27 QUEEN PALM TREES - ADOPTED We are to item number five on our agenda, proclamations and service awards. The first proclamation is a pleasure for me. I don't see her. Is Miss Christiana Long here? There you are, hiding. Miss Long, if I could ask you to -- if you would come forward, and we're going to ask that you step up here in front of the dais where everyone in TV land can see you, and I am going to take the opportunity to mention a very brief story. I know Miss Long by way of her nephew, Jeff Dunn, who was a college roommate of mine. Miss Long is a longtime resident of Collier County, and when her husband passed away in the not too recent past, they had planted hundreds upon hundreds of palm trees on their property and framing their property were twenty some odd beautiful palm tree specimens. Miss Long wanted to do something with those palm trees in the memory of her husband. So her nephew contacted me, we went out on site and found these gorgeous -- I think the smallest one was twenty feet -- and Miss Long graciously donated the trees, and they were planted at the Sanctuary skate park. And if you look at the ESPN footage, the palm trees you and your husband nurtured over the years were shown worldwide on television in the not too distant past. So in honor of Miss Long and the memory of her husband, on behalf of the Board of Commissioners, it's my pleasure today to read a proclamation. And I'm going to ask you to come on up here so I can -- so everyone can see your lovely face. The proclamation reads as follows: Whereas, on September 15, 1997, the Collier Board of County Commissioners accepted an offer from Mrs. Long for the donation of twenty-seven queen palm trees, and Whereas, said donation was utilized for landscape enhancements at the East Naples Community skate park board facility, the Sanctuary, and Whereas, residents and visitors are encouraged to visit the Sanctuary and to participate in the recreational programming offered at the facility,. Now, therefore, be it proclaimed by the Board of County Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, that Mrs. Long be recognized for her outstanding community service. Done and ordered this 18th day of November, 1997. Signed Timothy Hancock, chairman. And I would like to move acceptance of this proclamation. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Mrs. Long, on behalf of Collier County, thank you so very much. (Applause.) MS. LONG: I am sure my husband would be pleased with this, his beloved trees will bring pleasure to so many people. Special thanks to Commissioner Constantine and Jeff Dunn, my husband's nephew, as well as all of our friends who encouraged me to donate these trees. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mrs. Long, again, thank you very much. And I know Jeff wanted to be here and couldn't, but we will have a little picture out at the park when he does come into town for the three of us and for you to have. MS. LONG: That would be lovely. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We're in the process of taking care of that. But thank you again for your donation. MS. LONG: Thank you all. Item #5A2 PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING PELICAN BAY COHMUNITY PARK BY THE UNITED STATES TENNIS ASSOCIATION AS AN OUTSTANDING TENNIS FACILITY - ADOPTED CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Our second proclamation this morning is regarding the Pelican Bay Community Park, and that's Commissioner Norris. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes, while we have our parks and recs. director Marla Ramsey standing up, I'd like for her to come forward to accept this proclamation. And the proclamation reads: Whereas, on November 3rd, 1994, the Collier County Board of County Commissioners opened Pelican Bay Community Park to offer recreational facilities and programs for residents and visitors to Collier County, and Whereas, the park is fifteen acres in size and has eight lighted, clay tennis courts, pro shop and restroom facilities, and Whereas, in September, 1997, Pelican Bay Community Park was awarded an outstanding tennis facility designation from the United States Tennis Association, and Whereas, this award was given to only two facilities in the United States, this award was for a small facility category and is based on the quality of layout, type of courts, landscape and programs run at the facility, and Whereas, residents and visitors to Collier County are encouraged to visit Pelican Bay Community Park and to participate in the recreational programming offered at the facility,. Now, therefore, be it proclaimed by the Board of County Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, that Pelican Bay Community Park is recognized by the Board of County Commissioners and the United States Tennis Association as an outstanding tennis facility. Done and ordered this 18th day of November, 1997, by the Board of County Commissioners, Collier County, Florida, Timothy L. Hancock, Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to move that we accept this proclamation. COMHISSIONER BERRY: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and second. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. (Applause.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Marla, I'm going to assume we have a wall suitable for hanging. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Spot reserved. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We appreciate the USTA's recognition and we hope to continue the fine quality of the park for a long time. Thank you very much for being here. MR. LEWIS: I just wanted to say a few words. First of all, would like to thank the county commissioners for providing such an incredible tennis facility for the people of Collier County. I have been a tennis professional for about 30 years and have experienced facilities all over the country, and the Pelican Bay Community Park is without a doubt just one of the finest. It's unbelievable for not only a public facility, but it beats a lot of the private facilities around. With all our programs that we have, including round robins, tournaments, leagues, game arrangements for all levels and ages, we serve the public, we feel, very well. I also feel that this award really just confirms the standard of excellence that Collier County exhibits in its facilities and its programming for the parks and recreation. It's with great pleasure that the award is presented. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you very much. Again, thank you for the time of being here. And we'd be remiss in not recognizing our park staff and their planning and efforts to put together what I think are some of the finest parks in certainly the State of Florida, maybe the southeast, so my hat's off to them. Again, Mr. Lewis, thank you very much. Item #5A3 PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING THE MEN OF WOMEN OF THE NORTH COUNTY WATER TREATMENT FACILITY LABORATORY AND MAINTENANCE SECTIONS - ADOPTED The next item under proclamations this morning is regarding the men and woman of the north county water treatment facility laboratory and maintenance section, and this is by Commissioner Berry. COHMISSIONER BERRY: Good morning. I would like to read a proclamation for the north county water treatment facility lab and maintenance. If I could have Mike Newman come up and also the ladies and gentlemen from that plant, please. The proclamation reads: Whereas, Collier County operates water treatment facilities to disinfect and chemically condition the county's public water supply in order to protect the public health and prevent damage to both public and private property, and Whereas, the Florida Department of Environmental Protection is the agency responsible for administering the State of Florida's drinking water program to ensure compliance with state and federal safe drinking water regulations, and Whereas, the regional office of the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, in order to identify and recognize excellence in the area of water treatment operations and maintenance, holds an annual comprehensive competition within its six-county district, and Whereas, the county commission, through its commitment to provide high quality water, has constructed the new north county treatment facility and provided funding for its proper operation and maintenance, and Whereas, the men and women of the Collier County water department's north treatment facility, laboratory and maintenance sections have, through their continued efforts and dedication, demonstrated a high level of commitment and skill in the operation, testing and maintenance of that facility, and Whereas, the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, in recognition of the facility's excellent record in the areas of operation, testing, maintenance, regulatory compliance and water quality, has selected the north county -- Collier County north water treatment facility as the recipient of the region's top award for facility operation and maintenance, which was presented to Collier County in Tallahassee on November 12, 1997. Now, therefore, be it proclaimed by the Board of County Commissioners that the water department staff, and in particular the men and women of the north treatment facility laboratory and maintenance sections, be recognized for their dedication, hard work and continuous commitment to protecting the public health, which has resulted in an award from the Department of Environmental Protection's regional facility operation award for 1997. Done and ordered this 18th day of November, 1997, Timothy L. Hancock. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to move acceptance of this proclamation. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Congratulations. Likewise, Mike, I assume you have a wall suitable for hanging this? MR. NEWMAN: Yes, sir, we do. For the record, Mike Newman. Commissioners, the men and women that have stood before you this morning are representatives from their individual sections, being the laboratory, the maintenance and the water treatment operation sections for the department. The other individuals -- and there are probably about twenty-five of them that were involved in the winning of this award -- were unable to participate in this this morning, but I wanted to bring their participation to your attention and thank you for your continued support of our department. Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mike. If you guys have never done the taste test, one time in the mall they had bottled water set up next to county water, and once they were chilled, more people chose county water over bottled for taste. I thought that was kind of a nice testimony. Didn't get picked up by the paper, Mike. I don't know about that. Item #5B EHPLOYEE SERVICE AWARDS - PRESENTED Next item under service awards, Commissioner Constantine. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, apparently 1987 was an extraordinarily good recruiting year. There are a number of people who have been with us ten years, and we have for them service award certificates and also their ten-year pin. First we have Greta Eckerle, who has been with the library for ten years. (Applause.) COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: With traffic operations, Kenny Hall. Ken. (Applause.) COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Stormwater management certainly having their challenges over the ten years, Miguel Herrera. (Applause.) COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And Judy Miller has been around about nine years longer than her department has. She's now with the Department of Revenue. (Applause.) COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And from the County Attorney's Office, Earlene Weber. (Applause.) COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And we have got a couple of five-year awards. Also from the County Attorney's Office, Heidi Ashton. (Applause.) COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And with OCPM for five years, Ramon Magsumbol. (Applause.) COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's like a standing ovation in the back. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: It always helps to bring your own crowd, Ramon. COMHISSIONER NORRIS: You have a fan club back there. COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I might also congratulate Commissioner Norris, who five years ago yesterday became a county employee. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: As did one other member of this board, Tim Constantine. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And in due time you may get your very own five-year pin. Item #7A MICHAEL VOLPE REPRESENTING LELY COHHUNITY DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT REGARDING THE UNIT OF SPECIAL PURPOSE LOCAL GOVERNMENT SPECIAL ELECTION - TO BE BROUGHT BACK ON NOVEMBER 25, 1997 AS A RESOLUTION We are to public petitions, Item 7-A on the agenda. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Someone five years ago celebrated with us. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Michael Volpe, representing Lely Community Development District regarding the unit of special purpose local government - special election. MR. VOLPE: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. For the record, my name is Michael J. Volpe. I am here this morning representing the Lely Community Development District, which is a unit of special purpose local government that was created by the Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory Commission in July of 1991. I trust that all of you are familiar with community development districts. This community development district is governed by a board of five supervisors, and pursuant to the Florida Statutes, those members of the board were appointed in the first instance by the governor and the cabinet. Since that time, as their terms have expired, the vacancies have been filled by a vote of the landowners based upon one vote per acre. However, under the Florida Statutes, when the district has been in existence for six years and when there are 250 qualified electors residing within the district, there is the requirement that the vacancies that occur on the board be filled at an election to be held by the qualified electors who will vote on them. In November of this year, three terms -- the term of three members of the board expired. Pursuant to Florida Statutes, one of those vacancies is to be filled still by the landowners -- vote of the landowners, one acre -- one vote per acre. And then the other two positions are to be filled by the qualified electors within the community development district. Miss Morgan has advised the board of supervisors that there are today 336 qualified electors within the Lely Community Development District. And I am here this morning requesting that the board adopt a resolution calling for a special election to be held. And we have been in communication with Miss Morgan and the question is the timing of the special election. Mr. Weigel spoke with Miss Morgan this morning. She has indicated that the special election could be held either on December 30th or on January 6th, that the qualifying period for those candidates who choose to run for those vacancies would be held -- it would be a two-day qualifying period, and, Mr. Weigel, has Miss Morgan -- she had indicated that the qualifying period would be held between the 24th and the 26th, but thatws next week and probably a little bit -- with the Thanksgiving holiday. MR. WEIGEL: If I may, Dave Weigel, County Attorney. I have just communicated with Miss Morgan to verify the best dates for a two-day qualifying period with the intent to bring it up after it might be heard -- this matter may be heard next Tuesday for the adoption of a resolution. We have suggested from noon on Tuesday to noon on Thursday of next week as the qualifying period. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I assume, since we have a tremendous number of CDDs out there growing every time or every week, that all costs associated with the association are borne by the CDD entirely. MR. VOLPE: They are, Mr. Chairman. And what will happen is, I plan to approach the legislative delegation so that the terms of the board of supervisors will coincide with the general election so that we donwt have to have special elections in off years. This is an unusual event this year. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, may I suggest we give the county attorney direction to draft the appropriate resolution for next Tuesday and choose the date of January 6th. December 30th is probably not the best date because of the holidays. MR. WEIGEL: If I may add for the record, I will coordinate with Miss Morgan inasmuch as we do have the Thanksgiving holiday coming up quickly to make sure that the two-day qualifying period, if not exactly from noon Tuesday to noon Thursday, that we have a period that works and will be indicated to the board on the record at next Tuesday's board meeting on this issue. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just for my familiarity sake, is there a requirement that it be limited to a 48-hour qualifying period? MR. WEIGEL: No, there is not. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Is there any reason because of the holiday we might not want to extend it a little bit? I assume the more people who we invite into the process, the better. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: To extend it to noon the following Monday, since it wouldn't have a material effect on the balance of dates, would probably make some sense. MR. VOLPE: Miss Morgan had suggested either a two- or a four-day qualifying period, so if you'd like to make it four days -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Just to try and give some direction to reduce the number of questions we deal with next Tuesday, I think that's agreeable. MR. VOLPE: Mr. Chairman, if I may just -- maybe for clarification purposes, Miss Morgan has indicated that it would be a paper ballot and that the polling would occur within the community development district. There is a polling place within the community development district. I believe it's in the clubhouse. So that would be included in the resolution as I recall. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, if you need that, I will make that in the form of a motion. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and second. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Volpe, thank you very much. MR. VOLPE: Thank you. Item #SA1 RESOLUTION 97-436 OF INTENT TO PARTICIPATE IN FLORIDA'S EXPEDITED PERMITTING REVIEW PROCESS FOR SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS - ADOPTED CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We are now to 8-A-1 on our agenda under community development and environmental services. This is a resolution by the board of intent to participate in Florida's expedited permitting review process for significant economic development projects. Good morning. MS. CASTLETINE: For the record, Helene Casteltine, economic development manager. What you have before you is a resolution which, if approved, would show support -- local support for a state initiative which expedites the state regulatory permitting process. This is the first step in our participation. This is no commitment, but just showing our support for this particular program. It expedites permits for significant economic development projects within a given project. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So if a significant economic development project occurs in Collier County, they have a quicker time getting through the state process? MS. CASTLETINE: That's correct. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion we approve the item. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and second. Do we have any speakers on this, Mr. Fernandez? MR. FERNANDEZ: No. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, I will call the question. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries five-zero. Miss Castletine, thank you very much. MS. CASTLETINE: Thank you. Item #882 RECOHMENDED LIGHTING OPTION FOR THE U.S. 41 WIDENING PROJECT BETWEEN AIRPORT-PULLING ROAD AND DAVIS BOULEVARD, A FDOT PROJECT, THAT IS CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION - COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE TO WORK WITH FDOT AND REPORT BACK ON 11/25/97. CONTRACTOR TO INSTALL CONDUIT ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Next on our agenda, Item 8-B under public works, 8-B-2, request for approval of recommended lighting option for U.S. 41 widening between Airport-Pulling and Davis Boulevard. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Mr. Chairman, you won't be surprised to know this is an issue I have a whole lot of interest in since it is -- relates very closely to the -- what we have been calling the Davis triangle, what we're going to start calling hopefully the Gateway Triangle Redevelopment Project. This is -- was sort of sprung on us, and I think that it's real important to talk about how that it came to be sprung on us. With one breath, I would like to thank the staff for getting this on the agenda, because apparently we're having some trouble with the contractor doing what the state has said the contractor will do, which is cooperate with us in getting -- making some appropriate lighting choices. I want to communicate to you that I have gotten a lot of correspondence, frankly, because I have called people up and said, did you know this is on the agenda? And what I have heard back from -- the Donna Fialas of the world is that they would desperately like a week or two more to look at this to see if they can't come up with a solution to the problem of having less than we had hoped for for the decorative lighting. Our staff gave us a number, which is where we came up with the number that I asked for in the budget hearings and you graciously approved. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Is there any problem if we continue for a week or two? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I would love it if we can continue it a week or two. I think what we're going to hear is there may be some problem with the contractor, but I think we need to tell the contractor that the state's in charge of this contract. You know, he has that incentive to complete quickly, and God bless him; I want him to do that. But we need some time to look at this and try to find the rest of the money. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: In essence, the costs came in far higher than what was anticipated. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It came in far higher than anticipated, and that is based on, as I understand it, Mr. Bobanick, you correct me, that the -- it's the contractor who says that the cost is significantly higher than we had estimated. And the contractor wants, you know -- we have a little bit of conflicting goals here. We want to get this beautification project going and he wants to get the work done fast. So I think we might could refine these numbers, but if we had the time. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Bobanick, the situation as it's framed seems to be we'd like another week to refine some numbers here. What are the hurdles to doing that? MR. BOBANICK: For the record, Dave Bobanick, transportation director for Collier County. The hurdles, quite frankly, are the time constraints that the -- that this particular contract has, and the FDOT personnel are very concerned that because of the lag time or the lead time necessary to order these specially built poles and luminaires, that they get the order to the contractor to make a change in his contract and go forward and so that the contract is not delayed in its progress, because it is an incentive/disincentive type contract. The contractor gets an incentive for completing early and a disincentive for completing late. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Hac'Kie, have you had a chance to talk with FDOT? Because one of the things, while we often criticize state agencies, they are really, really good to work with. And I know over on Davis, when they were doing that project, very easy to work with to get the entrances and exits and the median cuts and all of that done. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: They have been wonderful. And I will tell you that between Thursday and today, I have not spoken with FDOT, but I have had many, many conversations and agree with you that they're wonderful to work with. And what they have told me is, we're going to get this done, we're going to accomplish it. It's the contractor who is appropriately, because it's his pocketbook, trying to push this. But keep in mind what we're talking about here is not some under-the-road construction that's going on presently. We're talking about -- he's got to right now be installing the wiring which is the same for these fixtures or the ugly fixtures and -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: That's where I was getting to, is that what we're talking about here is really order time for style material. He can still run the underground conduit. He can establish the concrete base with the four lug nuts that is standard for every single pole base. What am I missing there, Mr. Bobanick? MR. BOBANICK: The current design calls for the lights to be on one side of the road. The significant change is that this lighting will be on both sides of the road as far as the contractor's operations are concerned. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: And he already knows, though, that that is a fact. He needs to be installing that conduit and those pads on both sides of the road. And then we need time to decide which decorative poles and what we can afford and to order that. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: My suggestion would be that we go ahead and continue it for a week and that you go ahead and continue your conversations with FDOT just because my confidence level is so high. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I have a high confi -- would it be helpful to the contractor if we gave him an official -- some sort of official determination today that we are going forward with lighting on both sides of the street so that he can -- you know, if that would be helpful. I understand that he needs that information. Is there any question on the board about whether or not we're going forward with that? COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, as much as I want to see this project go forward, I think that is part of the decision that we're going to make and I don't know how we can make half a decision. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Well, we have already budgeted $236,000 and our staff tells us that we can have some form of decorative lighting. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: It's a question of what. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: The question is what. And so it would keep the contract moving forward if we would tell them you're going to have lighting on both sides of the street. Now, we'll get back to you about how much we're going to spend on how pretty it's going to be. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Let me ask this as a fail-safe. Can we provide the standard ugly poles for that amount of money on both sides of the street? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: For the 236,000 extra dollars? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yeah, can we -- if worse comes to worse, we're not going to throw away conduit here, we're going to have lighting on both sides of the street. Can that occur within our budget? MR. BOBANICK: Yes, excuse me, that could occur within our budget. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. MR. BOBANICK: We would -- excuse me just a second. That could occur within our budget. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I know it's an odd question, but I wanted to know that. Okay. Then I feel comfortable in giving direction that there will be lighting on both sides of the street and so he can go ahead and run the proper conduit for that. That won't slow him down in that respect. And seven days, when you start ordering materials like this, really isn't much, because my guess is their order won't even be close to seven days to the date of delivery they give us anyway. MR. BOBANICK: And may I ask of the board, then, that we get a commitment perhaps in the form of a motion at least to give FDOT direction to direct the contractor to install the conduit on both sides of the street? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: So moved. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I will second that. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and second. Any discussion? COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just as part of my motion, you will go ahead and have that discussion with FDOT? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Absolutely, absolutely. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We do have a speaker. We have a motion and a second on the floor. We will just hold off and hear from a registered speaker. Mr. Fernandez. MR. FERNANDEZ: Speaker is Mr. Dave Carpenter. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: He's going to talk us out of it. MR. CARPENTER: Dave Carpenter, president of East Naples Civic. The decision -- the original decision on the lighting and what style to go with was made by a committee including members of the steering committee from the Gateway Triangle Redevelopment Project and members of the beautification committee of the East Naples Civic Association. And we all of us at that point -- Mr. McGee, who is under contract from the county for design work on the medians, you know, presented scenarios that he felt would work there and work in keeping with the area at a price that would fit within the amount of money that the county had put in the budget for it. The surprise came last Thursday on it. I am not certain that this thing can be honestly looked at in one week. What I would suggest would be along with your motion today to allow staff to contract with Mr. McGee or get ahold of Mike and see if there are other alternatives in lighting, be it through different vendors, different suppliers on it that might fit more within the scope of the budgeting now that we know how much they want to mark them up by the contractor on it. And I think this is a two-year project. We sat at a luncheon last month with a representative of the FDOT. We asked, how long will it take to get 41 and the bridge done? They said probably about two years and that the bridge would be done before 41. So I don't think we need to let the contractor put us into a bind as far as picking out the style of the poles. The second thing that the board must bear in mind is that the City of Naples is also in negotiations with the same contractor over the same project for the cost of their lighting on their portion of the project, be it the bridge, and that comes out a little bit past Davis. And they have yet to come to an agreement with the contractor. So I think what you have done is the right thing, say, hey, let's go both sides of the street, but I think it's going to take longer than a week to come up with some realistic alternatives. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Agreed, Mr. Carpenter. What I would like to see, though, is Commissioner Hac'Kie working with DOT and whatnot a week from now. At least if DOT understands that and everyone is comfortable with that, except maybe the contractor, then we can live with that. But what we don't want to do is put DOT in a position of getting possibly sued by this contractor because of provisions for, you know, fast work/fast pay. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: And I can work with them in the next week and come back with some recommendations that hopefully are acceptable to all three parties. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I hear you entirely. I just -- I don't know what the rules are that we're playing by, and in the next week, we need to define that. MR. CARPENTER: I think there was some question of the rules that the contractor played by. Thanks a lot. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thanks, Dave. With that, we did have a motion by Commissioner -- COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Hac'Kie. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- and a second by Commissioner Constantine. Is there further discussion or, Dave, do you have sufficient direction at this point? Okay. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries five-zero. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Not surprisingly you will -- being the greedy person that I am, I want to tell you about one other issue that's going on out there and ask if you want to give staff -- Mr. Ilschner's staff direction to look at it. I understand -- let's see. We all know that in the 41 widening, there's going to be significant drainage improvements made along that corridor that will address all of the additional drainage caused by the widening of the road, the additional impervious surface. What we're finding in the Gateway Triangle discussion is that the biggest issue within that triangle is drainage. And what I have heard -- and I have not heard this directly from Mr. Ilschner's staff but I have heard it sort of through the grapevine -- that there are a couple of things that could be done during the widening of U.S. 41 to significantly improve the problem within the Gateway Triangle. They tell me that for -- that we need two big pipes. One costs $10,000, one costs $8,000, if we put them in during the construction process. If we don't and we put them in later, it costs a whole lot more. I wonder if there is interest on the board in asking Mr. Ilschner's staff to look into that as a possible change to the contract? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I think what's appropriate there and just based on other things I have been involved with is for you or a representative of East Naples to work with them and bring it, you know, back as a board consideration item with some of the details -- COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: That's exactly what I'm looking for. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- rather than us giving direction on something we don't really have a lot of information on. I know that staff stands ready to work with any commissioner on an item that you want to gather information on and bring it to the board for a decision. So maybe work through Mr. Fernandez's office would be my suggestion. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Well, that's actually what I'm doing already. I just sort of wanted to plant a seed with you that that may be another one out there that looks like a real good idea. We will find out. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Consider Johnny Appleseed completed. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Thanks. Item #9A SETTLEMENT OF STRINGER V. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS CASE NO. 97-178-CIV-FTM-23D, PENDING IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA - APPROVED CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Item 9-A under county attorney's report. I always get concerned when a commissioner is talking about something and we see staff moving around and talking to each other. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Yeah, what are they doing? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: What do we do now? MR. FERNANDEZ: It's all done to confuse you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Item 9-A under county attorney's report, recommendation that the board consider and approve settlement of Stringer v. BCC. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Weigel, in an attempt to cut to the chase here, it appears that they have agreed to what we had hoped the agreement would be last time this came up a couple weeks ago? MR. WEIGEL: Well, as a continued item and with the very tight time constraints, we had to put in the same document that was in before, and it was during the agenda item last week that attorney Hike Pettit, who is in trial today, indicated that we did not have agreement in regard to one aspect alone, and that was in paragraph ten, which shows up on page eight of the agenda package. And it was the part that indicated that she would not be seeking or subject to employment with the county at any time in the future. What has been struck, after detailed discussion, was that -- it now reads that there would be in essence a hiatus of 24 months from the approval of this agreement, and at which time she has -- she would have no automatic entry certainly for reemployment. She would, as any person, be subject to review for any position that she might apply for and either secure employment or not based upon the merits and the review of the other candidates at that time. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I'm going to make a motion we approve the settlement offer -- COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- in Case No. 97-178. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I would like to thank the county attorney's office for the response to the board concern. It was detailed on the point and I thought structured very well. MR. WEIGEL: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Any questions on the motion? Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries five-zero. Thank you, Mr. Weigel. Item #9B CERTIFICATE OF COLLIER COUNTY CANVASSING BOARD FOR THE NOVEMBER 6, 1997, INITIAL ELECTION OF CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS SUBMITTED FOR ENTRY IN THE RECORD OF THE 11/18/97 PUBLIC BOARD MEETING - APPROVED The next item under county attorney's report, Item 9-B, certificate of Collier County Canvassing Board, 11/6/97, for the Marco Island election. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries five-zero. Item #9C SETTLEMENT OFFER PROFFERED BY FLORIDA WILDLIFE FEDERATION AND COLLIER COUNTY AUDUBON SOCIETY IN LITIGATION ENTITLED: FLORIDA WILDLIFE FEDERATION AND COLLIER COUNTY AUDUBON SOCIETY V. COLLIER COUNTY AND JAMES R. COLOSIHO, TRUSTEE, ULTIMATE LAND TRUST, CIRCUIT COURT CASE NO. 97-2984-CA-01 AND FLORIDA WILDLIFE FEDERATION AND COLLIER COUNTY AUDUBON SOCIETY V. COLLIER COUNTY AND JAMES R. COLOSIHO, TRUSTEE, ULTIMATE LAND TRUST, CIRCUIT COURT CASE NO. 97-3600-CA-01 - OFFER REJECTED Next item, Item 9-A-C, request to consider settlement offer from the Florida Wildlife Federation and Audubon Society v. Collier County and James Colisimo -- Colosimo, excuse me. MR. WEIGEL: Thank you. Commissioners, I appreciate to you and to the county administrator to put these items on quickly and late in the process. This is one which I almost determined to confer with you privately rather than put it on and look to your pleasure today. But what we have is a letter from the attorney, Richard Gross, on behalf of the two plaintiffs, Florida Wildlife Federation and Collier County Audubon Society, in which they have indicated that they would approve the, quote, settlement or dismissal of the suits based upon the county paying approximately thirty-five hundred and some change to them to take care of their attorney fees and costs. I actually have an executive summary -- COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Weigel, you need go no further. MR. WEIGEL: That's fine. My recommendation is that we not approve it. I would further like to state for the record that in both proceedings upon which these lawsuits initiated, the county staff and county attorney believe that the procedures and the actions of the board and the staff were appropriate, that we will ultimately -- would ultimately prevail in the litigation. It will -- may necessitate some more human resource and time to get this done this way if they don't back off. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The county taxpayer absolutely, positively should not be paying for Florida Wildlife Federation's frivolous lawsuits. COHMISSIONER BERRY: This commissioner agrees with that wholeheartedly. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The precedent concern here is that you can sue the county and then if you offer to drop your suit, have your legal fees paid. I mean, that's just something that asinine so -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I will make a motion that we -- that we reject the settlement. COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion and a second, but we do have speakers, so let's go ahead and go to the registered speakers, please. MR. FERNANDEZ: You have two speakers, Mr. Chairman. The first is Ty Agoston. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I bet Ty wants a whole different result. MR. AGOSTON: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Ty Aguston. I live in Golden Gate Estates, and I am speaking for myself. And I am very happy, and your remarks are kind of music to my ears. It has been a long-standing practice for environmental groups to present or put up a roadblock to delay any project that they were fighting against. They knew whether they were right or wrong, the delay cost a ton of money and most of the time, the people who were involved in building whatever project was involved were willing to pay off rather than be involved in a delay. And this is a standard practice that I have noticed many, many years. Up in New York, New York, they're a little more outrageous than down here, and they are just simply using the same practice. I definitely agree with the comments you guys made that we should not go under -- we just simply encourage them from coming back tomorrow to use the same format and fight another battle. So we're just simply delaying the issue. And I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you very much. MR. FERNANDEZ: Next speaker is Mary Dunavan. MS. DUNAVAN: I am Mary Dunavan. I am speaking for myself. Thank you, commissioners and Chairman Hancock. I just want you -- the only reason I come up was to let you know I have studied all week, several nights, on these two books to present the whole list of things to you today to vote against this. So I just want you to know that I appreciate what you are doing. And I will cut my time short that way. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Big bonus points there, Mary. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I have just a question. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: She is a prolific reader, I know that for a fact. Is that the end of our speakers? MR. FERNANDEZ: That's all the speakers, Mr. Chairman. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Question. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yes. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: At the risk of wrath, the question is, is this one of those offers that if we don't accept it, we can end up paying triple or something? MR. WEIGEL: I don't think so. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just want to know. MR. WEIGEL: I don't think so. Attorney's fees are either -- they're allowed in Florida under the contractor statute. We haven't determined outright that they have the ability, clearly not under contract nor under statute at this point in time. And, you know, the county will maybe have to drag through some proceedings and ultimately get to issues which we think are moot to arrive at -- to arrive at an ultimate determination, so from that standpoint, there will be some human resource costs and things of that nature, but to answer your question, no. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: There were two questions when he looked at this at one time and that was should the county prevail, can we recoup our legal costs on these suits? And that wasn't a very clear answer; the answer was maybe, as I remember correctly. But in all probability, probably not. MR. WEIGEL: Probably not, that's correct. You fight the forum and then accept -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The concern here is very similar to the slip and fall. Even though they're not requesting monetary damages, many times we will see a slip-and-fall case come before us that builds up some attorney's fees, trying to get, you know, the easy money on the front end. When they don't get it, they settle for just attorney's fees, and I don't think we approve those and I certainly have no mind to start on this case. We have a motion and a second. Is there further discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries five-zero. Settlement offer is denied. Item #10A ETHICS COMMITTEE NOT TO BE FORMED Next item under 10-A, discussion regarding ethics committee. This was scheduled to come back to the Board of County Commissioners giving ample time for response from the bodies of elected officials that were asked to either appoint individuals or respond in total to the concept of an ethics committee looking at whether state laws should be affected or changed. To date, as you all have heard, the school board has chosen not to participate. Is Mr. Faerber here? COHMISSIONER BERRY: They've got their organizational meeting this morning. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I knew that. I knew that there was going to be a schedule conflict, and he had told me that if at all possible -- COHMISSIONER BERRY: They were going to try. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- he would be here, but he apparently cannot. I appreciate his efforts just the same. I did speak to him on the phone last night. From the city council there was a split vote on this, but they chose to participate by a majority. Everglades City, I believe, has already appointed -- COHMISSIONER BERRY: They will. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: They will appoint somebody, okay. So we kind of have a mixed bag out there. I will go ahead and just kind of establish, if you will, a base for myself. The more I have thought about this, I get continually concerned about what it creates, what does it become, what is it trying to accomplish? And I guess it's based on the assumption that the state ethics committee doesn't work. Why else would we have to go for tougher ethics laws? We have ethics violations or ethics complaints that have been filed in this county that have not been duly processed and heard and decided upon. And I guess where I came to on this for myself, individually, is I think we all want to hold ourselves up to the public and say that yes, we conduct ourselves in an ethical manner. Yes, we use proper discretion in everything we do. And if they disagree with those choices, that's certainly their right. But my problem is that where this thing is headed. As I read the last editorial, we didn't want it to be about Commissioner Norris or about Commissioner Mac'Kie or about anybody else on this board but about ethics in general. And I don't see that happening. I see the course actually being about what either has or hasn't happened before the state ethics committee has had an opportunity to review it fully. When the state ethics committee looked at the Estero fire board, they were held up by the media as champions of the public trust. They did their job. People were removed from office for improper activities. People were actually taken to court on misdemeanors and found guilty. So here we have the ethics committee doing exactly what the public says it's their job to do. On the issues concerning Collier County, they have not been given the opportunity to do that or not. But I find it interesting that the assumption is they're a toothless tiger all of a sudden. This is the same body that ousted and charged Estero fire board commissioners for improper activities. So I believe they're going to bring that same fervor, that same investigative depth to any application throughout the state, including Collier County. And until that has come to an end, I think this is a public bone, if you will, as opposed to addressing what is truly a real issue, because I don't know if an issue really exists on the enforcement of ethics in government in Collier County because I haven't seen it yet. So I am not comfortable moving ahead. And, Commissioner Constantine, you said it last time about it being just a, you know, window dressing. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: A feel-good thing. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yeah. So I want to see the results of what's going on before I am comfortable saying there's such a problem we have to form a local committee. Commissioner Mac'Kie. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I respectfully disagree. Even though I am the subject of one of those investigations and am confident that it is going to be more than thorough, I think that there is a genuine need in our community for this board, more than any of the others, frankly, but for this board to say we want to look at what ethics means in this community for its elected officials. Frankly, I am not interested in looking at the press. I am not interested in looking at anybody but my own face in the mirror, but I would like for us -- I think it would be a mistake if we don't form this committee for a couple reasons. One is, I agree that the direction that the newspaper describes is not the direction that we have laid out for this committee, but we will be the appointers and we will give the charge to this committee and this community needs that. We need that in this community right now. I also think that by making the appointments, we can -- well -- I'll just repeat that point. We can give the committee its charge. We can define it. You're also bound to be aware that if we don't form this committee, other organizations are going to. What I understand from the Republican party is, they would like for this to be an official Collier County government effort, and that would be a good thing in my judgment. But if we don't do it, others are going to and then we lose control of the focus of the group, because we may or may not need an ethics ordinance in Collier County. It may be that the state law is sufficient, but this group -- this committee could do a couple of things. It could hold some public forums. It could do some of those town meeting kinds of things that you talked about, Mr. Chairman. It could bring back some trust by communicating to the community just what the issues are. It may be that its primary function is to educate and not to come up with a new ordinance, because, frankly, you guys know better than anybody that an ordinance, an ethics ordinance in Collier County, is only as good as the five of us because the next five can change it. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So we are the five that would enforce it. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right. So it's not my goal to see an ethics ordinance for Collier County, and that is what the newspaper has written about. And that may or may not be what this committee would decide to do, but this is a good opportunity for restoring some confidence, letting the public know that we are serious about looking at this issue, that we want to have a community discussion about what ethics in local government means. I just think this would be a shame not to form the committee, whether you look at it as, you know, tossing a bone to the public or something, I really don't. I think it could have a really valid -- it could serve a really valid purpose in the community if we are careful about who we appoint, if we tap some people with real experience and not, you know, political appointees. So I will stop on that pitch and tell you that the other thing that I had to say today about this is -- I had -- I had brought up advertising and all these criteria and that kind of stuff, and this process is dragging on too long to be very effective as a communication tool, which is what I see it as. And I was going to ask -- it hadn't occurred to me, frankly, that we were going to consider not forming the committee, so I hadn't thought much about making a pitch on that point, but I do think that we need to do it, we need to do it quickly. And as a result of that, I was going to withdraw my recommendation about advertising and soliciting for membership and let's just get on with it and appoint five members from this board, a couple from the city council, City of Naples, one from the City of Everglades, and ask the City of Marco Island if they would like to participate, and let's just do it. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Norris. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, Mr. Chairman, one thing about this whole issue is that none of the five of us sitting on this board have any experience outside of Collier County, but we do have the benefit of our county administrator who has experience in a number of counties and statewide, and I would like to hear his opinion of this issue. MR. FERNANDEZ: Mr. Chairman, my opinion is that the state process is very extensive and very exhaustive. It's very complete. I am aware that the constitutional revision commission is presently considering proposals to amend the state process to even refine it further and strengthen it further, and I have spoken to Vivian Zaricki, the executive director of the state association in this regard. She has sent some information regarding some of the proposals that are being considered. It's my feeling that a local process would require the creation of additional standards, an additional set of rules. The state process has been refined over a number of years. It's been tried and true, that kind of thing, and I think it has worked pretty effectively as a consistent standard that applies from county to county. There's also the concern that I have that if a local mechanism is put into place, then it can be subject to local manipulation and political influence and that sort of thing, which the state process is really immune from because it is somewhat removed from the local issues. Also, very similar to the comments that Commissioner Hancock made earlier, it's my feeling that until it's been demonstrated that that process has not been very effective in addressing the issues that have surfaced in Collier County, I wonder if it's appropriate to put into place an additional level of regulation over and above the standards that exist throughout the state of Florida. So I think it's important for us to give the state process a chance to see if it's going to work for us before we put something else into place. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I have a question for the manager on that point. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Did you have a question or comment? COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Comment. Go ahead. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: My question, Mr. Fernandez, is it sounds to me like what you have just commented on is also what the chairman was discussing, and that is what apparently the editorial board of the Naples Daily News thinks that committee should do and that is establish a local process. But if you will look back, when we discussed the possibility, we were very clear that this group would not be charged with establishing a local process or a local ordinance. That, in fact, this group would be charged with reviewing the issue of ethics in local government, and then it would make recommendations to us and we would decide whether or not any kind of additional laws were necessary. But just because the newspaper has written about it as if it's going to cause the creation of an ordinance, that's no reason -- I agree with you. I agree with everything you said. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: With all due respect to Mr. Batten and his newspaper, I'm not sure why that's even entering into the discussion. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: It's not relevant. It's not relevant. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The reason I stated it is because I think a lot of the, quote, unquote, public sentiment we're hearing is being somewhat driven by the level of attention that is afforded in the local media. And we talk about the newspaper, but it's everything. It's electronic media, it's newspaper, it's whatnot. That's the reason I mentioned that. You have to come back to the basic reason for me, which is -- and I'm sorry, I don't mean to take your time, but ethics, just the word ethics means something different to each person you ask, and someone who is predisposed to believe that government is a bunch of self-serving, selfish, you know, greedy dishonest people is going to state no matter what is going on that we need stricter ethics guidelines and laws. The pessimist, if you will, the person who believes that everyone is in it for themselves. So that's never going to change. That is always going to be out there. My concern is that we feed -- by forming a local committee to say whether we do or don't need stricter ethics laws, what are they going to base that on? There has not been to date a Collier County commissioner that has been brought to the commission on ethics and found guilty or not found guilty or whatnot. There's not been an abuse. There's not been a situation that has not come to an end that was unjust to the people of this community. And I feel like an effort right now is prejudging the current complaints that have been filed, so I want to see that come to its completion. And it's not about what the newspaper does or doesn't think, but I think you have to recognize that as a force in the community that does drive some public opinion, and I am afraid that public opinion is converse to what we had initially talked about doing. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I don't know if you know -- and then I promise I'm not going to talk anymore because it's Commissioner Constantine's turn and I know that -- but I was flabbergasted to find out that with regard to the complaint filed against me, for example, it will be the end of the year before a determination is made whether or not there will be an investigation. And then if there's an investigation, that's going to go on for a period of months, and then if they determine probable cause, that goes on for a period of months. If you put this off until my investigation is completed, we're talking a year and a half. It will never happen if we don't do it now. So don't put it off based on completion of the process, because it lasts forever. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Mac'Kie, I appreciate the concern for public perception. Obviously, we're serving the public, and if they perceive there's something wrong, then we have to take that into concern. If we're dealing with public confidence, however, in my opinion, the best way to deal with that is from Tuesday to Tuesday and how we conduct ourselves week in and week out. My concern, as Commissioner Hancock mentioned, is that this can turn into a feel-good committee, and that in an effort to respond to some criticism, whether it's accurate or not, that we're going to just take an action that may or may not have any real bite to it, when all is said and done. And I know -- I think all of us know if we don't form the committee, we will be open to tremendous criticism, but that's not an appropriate place to base our decision. The unfortunate reality of our job, and I think all of us were aware of this when we took the job, was that we're going to get criticized. When we first talked about forming this committee, we were criticized. I got probably a dozen or more calls saying oh, it's the fox guarding the henhouse. You guys are just appointing a committee to set up whatever rules you want. I don't know that it's necessarily bad when you say there are other groups, be that the Republican party or whomever, that if a neutral party organizes something, I don't know that that's a bad thing, only from the number of calls I got saying you guys are just doing this for your own purposes. What we might entertain long-term -- I am just kind of thinking out loud -- but if you read through the state statutes and what we're required to do and what the penalties are, they're fairly substantial. And I don't know that they're readily known to the public, but I think if someone takes the time to go through there, there's some pretty strict requirements that we are required to follow and there's some pretty stiff penalties if you do not follow them. And what we might do is look at those at some point, and if we don't think the penalties are stiff enough, then say, okay, if the ethics commission comes back with a finding and we want to have a stricter penalty -- still let them do the process, because it's a neutral party, but, you know, look at stricter penalties. Frankly, I think the penalties, if you read through there, are pretty stiff anyway. But I guess for me, the bottom line is we can make all the rules in the world. We can make new rules, but every commissioner or every elected official is ultimately responsible for their own conduct, and either you're going to go by the rules and go by the law or you're not. And if you don't have -- and I'm not saying anyone here does -- but if someone doesn't have enough conscience to follow the existing rules, I don't know that additional rules are going to make any difference. And so I think the laws as they are right now are pretty strict. Hopefully each of us follows those and I think on this board we do, but if -- I don't think creating additional rules or additional restrictions is going to make someone have a greater conscience. And so I just -- my two problems are I don't want to have just a feel-good committee, although I realize your concern with public perception. And I just -- I don't think new rules are going to make people more honest. Either you're going to play by the rules or you're not. And I think, you know, hopefully each of us does. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Peter Van Arsdale had the best line about that; I just have to repeat it. That ethics are like good looks, you either got 'em or you don't. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Do we have registered speakers, Mr. Fernandez? MR. FERNANDEZ: Yes, you do, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Ty Agoston. MR. AGOSTON: Tomorrow morning you're going to find a very nice picture of Miss Hac'Kie in the Daily News congratulating her on her presentation. And, you know, it's very unfortunate that in this town, the size and the complexity, we have a single media entity that disseminates the news. And the reason this ethics complaint has continued to such a length of time is because apparently you guys are not being liked by the Naples Daily News. You have been a good number of times critical of them and they want to show you that they own the ink and they own the paper and they can print. The ethical laws that's on the books on a state level are pretty strict, just as Mr. Constantine had mentioned, and as far as I can see, this is nothing but a power struggle between the political bosses downtown and apparently you guys' lack of attendance of a rather expensive dinner. It may go a little bit further than that, but the fact of the matter is that you were elected to run the county and Mr. Hart and Miss Gina Hahn were elected to be involved in the local political party machinery. And for them to call for ethical commission is, you know, in my opinion relatively meaningless, because, like you say, it would be under your construction so you can construct it in any way, shape or form. And as far as Miss Hac'Kie's complaint about the wheel of justice turning slowly, it is my understanding that the wheel of justice should turn slowly -- COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Absolutely. MR. AGOSTON: -- because we don't want appearances to make judgments. And what you're essentially saying is that you prefer to have an appearance make the judgment, and that's not what we're looking for. Thank you very much. MR. FERNANDEZ: Next speaker is Stan Olds. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And do we have one more after that or is Mr. Olds our -- MR. FERNANDEZ: He's the last one. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Olds. MR. OLDS: Last one and the best one. Good morning. It's great to be back from Wisconsin and to see all the smiling faces on that county board, this morning anyway. Many of your other items, I know that there's a little bit of a difference. But I wanted to say that I am very definitely against the ethics committee, because I think the more laws you pass and the more things that happen, none of the laws seem to ever take place. I mean, most of the people will get around it somehow. Look at our present administration in Washington. I mean, they have gotten around so many things, you wonder where in the world are all of those good laws? And how do you prove that they've done it? That's another thing, Miss Mac'Kie and Mr. Norris, that how are they going to prove all of these things? There's so much instability in all of their corrections and all of their statements. So I guess I just wanted to say that I wanted to get up and speak for the first time and get my feet wet, as they say, and state that I am very definitely against that ethics committee. Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Olds. Commissioner Berry, did you have anything to add? There's obviously three commissioners that are not interested in proceeding. Before making a decision on this, I wanted to know if there's anything you wish to add. COMMISSIONER BERRY: I think I have probably come full circle. You can call it waffling. You can call it changing your mind. And I guess I'll plead that since I'm a woman, I have a right to change my mind. I have changed my mind because I mentioned -- I think I brought up early on that we ought to form a committee and kind of supported that effort. Certainly got chastised because I thought maybe they ought to make a statement about ethics in regard to the media. That one got attacked pretty good. Still don't think it's a bad idea. I mean, I knew you couldn't mess with the first amendment and I wasn't attempting to, but I just thought maybe a general statement of agreement of responsibility for what was being printed, I thought that was kind of a nice little catch. But obviously the people don't want that. They want to read, you know, maybe borderline garbage, but that's okay. So we'll say that's fine. You go ahead and do what you want to do and that's perfectly all right. I really -- it doesn't make any difference to me. I can read it or not read it. In regard to each one of us, I have to agree with Mr. Van Arsdale. I think that statement is probably a pretty good one, and we can set up here and we can establish committees -- and it was funny, after I had brought this up, the very thing Mr. Constantine mentioned about oh, okay, you county commissioners are going to set up a committee, you're obviously going to get people that think like you think and so nothing is going to be gained. So immediately we try to address the concern, and we're immediately criticized because we're setting up the committee. That's one side. The other side is sitting over here, be it the political entity -- the Republican party says I can't imagine why you're not jumping on this and doing this immediately. I mean, you obviously -- you don't understand the seriousness of this problem. Why would you not want to look into the ethics, et cetera, et cetera? Again, I go back to no matter how many things we put on the books, laws, rules, regulations, we could sign pledges, we could sign all sorts of things -- and I even told Miss Mac'Kie back when she first ran for office many years ago, I said Pam, it's an amazing thing when you run for office. Up until the time you get in public office, you're a pretty good person. And the day you take the oath, you lie, cheat and steal. It's just amazing to me how that happens just overnight. Up until that time, you're a decent individual and people for the most part kind of like you. But now all of a sudden we're in this position. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Not all of us. COHMISSIONER BERRY: Well, somewhere along the line probably your parents thought you were okay, Tim. At any rate, I have come full circle on this and I firmly believe there is nothing to be gained for anybody to establish this committee. I think, again, we have a process and it is amazing, everything that's been said up here this morning, it brings the thing right back to the relevancy of we have the rules that we all have to live by. It wasn't long ago that they were commended because of the Estero fire situation and now, since it's in Collier County, they're not commended. And it's -- this is a no win, and it's ridiculous, and I think we have a charge here to run the county business. And if it's proven that we are not doing our jobs running this county business, I believe that that will be addressed in the electorate process. And so at this point in time, I'm saying, from my standpoint, I can't support going in the direction of a committee. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Is that a motion? COHMISSIONER BERRY: That's a motion. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion to not move forward in the formation of an ethics committee. I am going to support the motion. I don't know about the rest of you, but every speaking engagement I have had since this issue was broached, I have dealt with ethics. I have talked to people about it. They have asked their questions. They will continue to do that, particularly next year. So my opportunity to address the ethics issue is directly related to my desire to get out there in front of people and deal with it. And that desire is strong and that desire will continue and anyone that has any questions has my phone number and my address and we will deal with those individually. But the business of this board occurs in its agenda on Tuesdays. And you said it best, from Tuesday to Tuesday we're responsible for our own actions and we should be held accountable for those and we are by the state. We are by the laws. And those laws should be enforced to the fullest extent. I don't think anyone here disagrees with any of that, but I have to support Commissioner Berry, and I think an ethics committee is the wrong vehicle to make sure or to ensure that people's values reflect the community's values. That's what the electoral process is for. COHMISSIONER BERRY: And I further encourage, if there are some groups out there that think they want to study the ethics rules that are in place, I would commend them. I am sure you can get a copy of it from the county attorney's office. They have the statute books. They're more than welcome to get a copy of those ethics rules that we have to follow. If they would like to choose a study -- and I would encourage the current Republican group, if they would like to know more about what we have to follow, I would encourage them to come down here, get these statutes and go ahead and do a study on them. After they do that, if they feel like, you know, that there is something that needs to be done further, then I would suggest that they contact their local representative in Tallahassee, which would be Mr. Saunders, and deal with it through that entity. I think that that would be the best procedure that they could follow. I would hope the rest of you would agree with that. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I have one question on that point. I wonder if we might want to go one step further and that is to ask our county attorney to prepare a presentation and have some kind of a public forum, perhaps in this room on an evening, when people could come and be informed. Because that was a primary goal for me of the committee was that it would inform the community about what the standards are. So why not have that kind of a forum here to present information to the public? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I guess, if the majority of the board wants to do that, that's fine. One of the things I do -- this week alone I have five speaking engagements. I'm sure you guys are doing roughly the same thing. As we get into season, that's a typical week. And I hit on three major topics, usually, and then open it up for questions. One of those topics has been exactly that, in dealing with some of the questions that have been raised this past summer and fall but also dealing with the specifics of what we have to follow and what the state law requires. And we can have a forum here and we'll have Mr. Agoston and Mr. Olds and the same folks who come every time and probably some new faces but -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Not that we don't like seeing you. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No, we love seeing you. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, except for when you insult me, Tom, but other than that. COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: This week, for example, I will speak with over three hundred people from various homeowner groups and I'll bet they aren't otherwise down here, and I will continue to do that week after week through Easter and then it usually slows down. But I think each of us doing that can reach far more people and far more directly. You know, if the majority of the board wants to do it, I don't object, but I just don't know that it's the most direct route to reach people. You know, I think going to their community and talking about it on their turf really opens it up that much more. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I think people want to see their local government do something about informing the public about what its ethics are. And that it would at least be useful to offer a public forum. If the board doesn't want to do it, maybe the League of Women Voters will, maybe. You know, I'll work with some other groups to try to -- I think the community needs some education about what the rules are, and that they would like that from their government and not from us individually. COMHISSIONER BERRY: I think that's an excellent point, though, Pam. The League of Woman Voters, and, again, the Republican party can do this on their own. This would be a wonderful initiative for them to take on and do this, research this information, make a public presentation. They have a monthly meeting. They can certainly do it at that point in time. They can go on and do a little dog and pony show on the road and put it on for different groups. What a wonderful community service. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I guess I wish we would provide that service. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: What I am concerned about is, the truth is, the hard questions should come to us, not to the county attorney. And to put the county attorney up here explaining the laws is fine, but when someone says well, what about when a commissioner does X, Y or Z? He can tell them whether that either violates or doesn't, but the hard questions are the ones that come to us. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So there's the improvement. We could be -- this could be a workshop where we participate. That would be even better. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: My point is, I am workshopping this issue every week. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But not as a group. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I am workshopping it the same as Commissioner Constantine out in the community. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. I mean, I give. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'm just saying I think there's several ways to skin a cat. The way I choose to do it is direct the questions to me. COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I am going to second the motion and call the question. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and seconded. Any further discussion? See none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries four-one. Item #10B RESOLUTION 97-437 DECLARING A VACANCY ON THE ENVIRONHENTAL POLICY TECHNICAL ADVISORY BOARD - ADOPTED We are to item 10-B on our agenda, recommendation to declare a vacancy on the Environmental Policy Technical Advisory Board. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, this one is fairly cut and dried. I just wanted to check, has anyone spoken to the gentleman who hasn't attended any meetings? Has anyone made an effort in any way to contact him? MS. FILSON: Mr. Lorenz (phonetic) sent a letter to him and has spoken to him. And it appears that he has responsibilities out of town, but he didn't send me a letter of resignation. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I will move the item. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion and a second. We do have a speaker on this item. MR. FERNANDEZ: You have one speaker, Mary Dunavan. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mary, if you could wait just a second, the court reporter has to make a paper change. MS. DUNAVAN: My name is Mary Dunavan speaking for myself, and thank you, commissioners and Chairman Hancock. Speak up, okay. I am not against whoever you want to appoint. I have a problem with who is your chair for the Environmental Policy Technical Advisory Board and I also have a problem with you have other environmentalists sitting on that board. And they bring lawsuits against this county. They bring lawsuits -- they -- the environmentalists bring lawsuits against -- all over the United States, so this is one of their ploys and in these lawsuits, it ends up changing sometimes the way the law was specifically set up in the first place. And so I have been reading "Saviors of the Earth," Michael S. Coffman, "Politics and Religion of the Environmental Movement" and I am going to read a small section. This is from Peter Daniels, a member of the international monetary fund, who has outlined five critical keys to a nation's economic and political stability. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mary, I understand the point you're making. MS. DUNAVAN: Okay. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: But the one issue before us is whether to declare a vacancy on a committee. The existence of that committee is not on our agenda today. MS. DUNAVAN: Okay. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So if I could ask, if you want to come back under general comment with those statements, I think they would be appropriate at that time. MS. DUNAVAN: Okay. Sure will. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mary. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just a general topic that we may want to put on the agenda in a future week, I don't want to get into it too far now because it's not -- but interestingly, when we talk about conflict of interests and those issues, that not only with the environmental issues but on the TDC board we have hoteliers who vote every week, and that's under state statute we're required to have, and obviously we want the expertise of people with environmental knowledge voting on environmental issues, but there is an inherent conflict there if you happen to run a hotel and you're voting on an event that's going to make money for your hotel or if you're paid by a particular environmental thing and you vote on something that impacts your group specifically, and it just might be an interesting discussion one week to see. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: We had this discussion last week. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I know you were suggesting that we not have any of those people, but it might be a little different approach to that, but it's just -- it's interesting, not just on environmentalists, but on all kinds of boards, we have some inherent conflicts. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: For example, the development services advisory board, that is, but in my view, who better to advise on those issues than people with expertise. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Just as I asked Mary to put her comments in the appropriate place, I am going to do the same for my colleagues. So if we want to have that discussion again, let's put it on the agenda for next week. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: We're going to have it again when Mr. Weigel develops some information for us. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Correct. I understand where you're going, but I think it's -- again, a variety of things. Any further speakers on this item? MR. FERNANDEZ: No. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We do not. I'm sorry, I think we had a motion and a second on the floor when we went to speakers; is that correct? MR. FERNANDEZ: That's correct. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Then is there any further discussion on the motion? COHMISSIONER BERRY: What's the motion again, please? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The motion is to declare a vacancy on the Environmental Policy Technical Advisory Board of Mr. Byron Heade. He will be ousted. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries. Item #11A USE OF CONFISCATED TRUST FUNDS TO PROVIDE HATCHING FUNDS FOR A FEDERAL GRANT - APPROVED Next item under ll-A is formerly item 16-H-5. This is a request by Commissioner Constantine regarding the long-term fiscal impact of a purchase of the confiscated trust funds, as I read it. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I just wanted to make sure there were no -- it says no recurrent costs, but I wanted to make sure this wasn't -- I wanted to understand the item. We have a one-time educational thing for the officers that will never happen again in the future years or how does this work? DR. FERGUSON: For the record, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Dr. Edward Ferguson with the Collier County Sheriff's office. I am the principal investigator on this project. To answer your question, yes, this is a one-year grant. We were one of eight agencies in the United States to receive this grant from the National Institute of Justice. It is a one-year research grant. The only way that this would ever come up again is if the grant would ever be extended, would be that the results of the research would show that the pilot programs could go on and it would be looked at for refunding through the National Institute of Justice. That's it. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's really what I am asking, though, this -- not the grant being a one-time thing but the program, the initiative -- DR. FERGUSON: The initiative is a one-year grant, yes. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I know it's a one-year grant. That's not my question. Is the initiative -- when you say it's a pilot project, does that mean it's likely a year from now when Sheriff Hunter gets up and requests a fourteen percent increase and says he can't possibly live without it, that this program will be something that he thinks is part of that? DR. FERGUSON: No. It is finished after one year. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thank you. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Motion to approve the item. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, thank you for being here this morning. Appreciate it. We are to the advertised public hearings and we're also to a point at which it's always a welcome break for our court reporter so PUBLIC COHMENT - HR. THOHPSON REGARDING VICTIH OF CODE ENFORCEHENT COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Public comment? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'm sorry? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: General topics. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'm sorry, yeah. Let's go ahead and go to that. I apologize. Public comment on general topics. One of them should be Ms. Dunavan. MR. FERNANDEZ: First speaker is Kenneth Thompson and then Jack Bowman. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: If you're more comfortable sitting, you could use that a hand mike, sir. MR. THOMPSON: I just come here to -- my name's Kenneth W. Thompson and I live at 2831 Becca Avenue. And the reason I'm here, I have been a victim of code enforcement three times. I am falling a victim to them again and I am a man that's going to say what I want to say. And Mrs. Hac'Kie, you should pay more attention to your job. I have been wanting to tell you for two years. You do not -- you do not reply back to people. They call you. I have been to your office. I keep getting the runaround, and you are personally unavailable for this job. I want you to know that. Because if you were -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Sir, I'm -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's okay. I mean, I don't mind his telling me. MR. THOMPSON: As far as the Collier County -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I just think the respect goes both ways. MR. THOMPSON: I will regard it and I'll respect her, okay? I am trying to, but I am trying to tell you what -- COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm happy with you here. MR. THOMPSON: -- I'm saying. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I understand. I just want to make sure it's in a respectful manner. That's all I'm asking. MR. THOMPSON: Oh, yeah. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. MR. THOMPSON: Anything I say is in a respectful mode. I have been here 40 years and I have never seen so many people come here to run this county. I think if we would vote a mayor in here for the people and get rid of this county commission, we would be better off. And I'm a fallen victim of code enforcement again, and Mrs. Mac'Kie, I take back everything I say if you would help me do one thing. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: What's that? MR. THOMPSON: To stop the City of Naples coming in here, dumping their trash, this free mulch they call it. They dump thirty-eight loads by me, and it's the most rottenest garbage. It's full of trash, beer cans and you name it. Mr. Arnold will tell you it's not infested. The man is a -- what do you call it? He runs off to other countries. And when he come back, it was all growed up. And every time I go over to talk to Bill Bolgar, he don't like me, and God help him, I don't like him. But don't talk about the Collier County newspaper, because what it says that you are neglecting your job. And I will take that back and I will vote for you again if you will help me get the city to quit dumping their trash in the county, because they charge us for beach stickers. Why charge us for beach stickers? The beach stickers are in the county. The city -- it's not Mexico; it's in Collier County. And I want to tell you another thing. I offered to landscape out of my own pocket. I had the plants. I am a gardener, landscaper. I don't need no engineer. I am an engineer. I offered to put all of the plants from 41 to the bridge out of my own pocket just like Mrs. -- the lady that was here a minute ago, Mrs. Long. I went to several people. They keep telling me they need an engineer. I seen some figures on Airport Road that engineered that. Lord of mercy, you turn this way and you kill the guy coming at you because you can't see nothing. And if you call that an engineer, I'd hate to have him landscape my yard. And you come to 2831 Becca Avenue and it will tell for yourself. I have code enforcement. They inspect my roof and the roof wasn't even on it. They C.O. it, and I am sick and tired of code enforcement telling me that it's okay. So I'm asking the five of you, and Mr. Constantine, I apologize to you again for last Christmas. What a Christmas that was. My wife is the head of neighborhood watch. We had so many troubled women out there looking for a place. I had to put a fence up to keep 'em out of my yard. And since we got Mrs. Rosa White, my wife, and a bunch of people together, we have got rid of them. And when you start giving Hunter any more money, think twice. I thank you. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I just invite you to come -- sir? MR. THOMPSON: The best I can do. I will vote for you again. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I would like to invite you -- and actually, I will take this opportunity to a make a little plug that Wednesday night in this room, tomorrow night from seven to nine, is the first meeting of what we're so far calling the Bayshore-Avalon redevelopment team. It's going to be -- hopefully we -- I personally sent out over two thousand letters to individual property owners. I hope you got one. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. I think this is under board communications. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Be there seven to nine if you're interested in Bayshore. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Public speakers next. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Tomorrow night. PUBLIC COHMENT - MR. JACK BOWMAN AND PETE KOSCIK REGARDING CONTRACT WITH EAST NAPLES FIRE DISTRICT FOR SERVICE FOR ISLES OF CAPRI HR. FERNANDEZ: Hr. Jack Bowman and then Pete Kocik. MR. BOWMAN: I thank the commission for this opportunity. And I preface my remarks, I am not mad at anybody. My name is Jack Bowman. I have been a winter resident of the Isles of Capri for approximately twelve, thirteen years. I am here today to present some information or ask some questions with regard to the association of the Capri Fire Department with the -- presumedly a takeover by the East Naples Fire Department or the merger or whatever the current terminology is. I am here to urge the commission to give the Isles of Capri residents an opportunity to review all of the facts, the facts that have been presented by our own fire department and not necessarily those of our own fire board. I would like to refer you to your own administrative staff, which in my opinion is very capable. And lots of information I received from your staff indicate -- as I have indicated in the letter which I distributed yesterday -- that we don't need fixing. Now, I understand there's a motion now that sometime this week that members of the staff will meet with the East Naples group and work up an agreement. And if you have attended those meetings we have had on the Isles of Capri, it's obvious that the majority of the residents would ask you to defer that until all of the facts are studied. It's apparent to us that it isn't necessary to associate ourselves with the East Naples Fire Department. We're perfectly capable of handling it our own way. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Norris, when is this scheduled to come back to the board? COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I don't know that we have it on the schedule. We had it on the board, as you know, and because of concerns on the Isles of Capri, that people felt they didn't have enough information, we delayed it as promised, Mr. Bowman. As promised. Not like you said in your anonymous letter that you sent around. It was exactly as I promised the night of my meeting. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The point is, we are going to try to COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Last Friday night we did have a big meeting down there that the public was invited to. We also have a commitment to the Isles of Capri Civic Association to do it again with them. And that will be done before it comes back to the board. That was the commitment that we made and we're following through with those commitments to the letter. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Bowman, will that address your concern of making sure there's appropriate public input if there are a couple -- a couple or three public hearings right there on the Isles of Capri? MR. BOWMAN: Well, yes, yes. But in the past -- by way of background, I am currently building a house and I am a winter resident. Normally I wouldn't be in town in September or October, but to ensure domestic tranquility in picking out, Mrs. Bowman's in charge. And in cruising around passing -- seeking information that I heard with regard to this takeover, people said -- COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Bowman, please. Mr. Bowman, I am not going to let you do that. This is not a takeover. It's not a merger. There is no proposal whatsoever to do that. There's no proposal to raise taxes as you have been intimating in your letters. There is no proposal to take over the district. There's no proposal to dissolve the district. There's no proposal to stop using your fire station. It's simply a request by your own fire department to -- to see if we could contract for service in your fire department with the East Naples district to give you twice as much coverage for the same price. There is nothing more to it. And I am not going to let you get away with saying a takeover or a merger. MR. BOWMAN: Your administrators have indicated to us and our citizens' committee that what East Naples has proposed will provide less service. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Rather than -- rather than having that public debate twice, I think what's important is that the community meetings continue with -- as what was this past Friday at the Isles of Capri Civic Association. In the meantime, all the residents of Isles of Capri are welcome to contact me, communicate with all the members of this board so that we try, as our elected role, to perform the will of the people on this matter. That's really all we're asking is that the information get out there and that an informed public let us know what their desires are so that we can help accomplish that for them. MR. BOWMAN: Is it on the agenda now to pursue this meeting? I understand from the chief that they're meeting tomorrow and the next day with the county people, administrators, to work out this agreement or this arrangement with the Isles of Capri. Is that true or false? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I am sure there's a meeting -- MR. BOWMAN: I would urge -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Bowman, are you going to let me answer? MR. BOWMAN: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Why, thank you. I am sure that in our direction to formulate some type of contract for consideration -- I mean, you can't consider a concept without the details. A contract has to be established for us to be able to compare apples and apples. That contract has to have all the details of cost for coverage, personnel and whatnot contained in it for us to try to make an educated decision as to which service best serves the people of Isles of Capri. So yes, our staff is involved in developing a contract for service with East Naples for to us look at so that we and the public can determine if that contract best serves them. So yes, we're in the process of forming that. Without it, we're just talking concepts and that generally doesn't get us anywhere. MR. BOWMAN: What's the time frame of this? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Fernandez? MR. FERNANDEZ: I am not sure of the time frame. I think we are in the process this week of holding some meetings with East Naples to work out those details. I think it's going to depend upon how well we're going to be able to express in proper contract form the concepts that have been discussed, and then, of course, it would require county attorney review before coming before the board. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Once that document is completed, the county attorney review or even drafts are public documents, so no one is trying to ramrod, Mr. Bowman. No one is trying to fast track anything. We're just looking to get information for comparison purposes and a contract -- a draft contract is necessary to do that. So if you will communicate with either the county administrator's office or the county attorney's office, as soon as that document becomes available, it's public record and you're welcome to it. MR. BOWMAN: Well, then, in pursuit of the democratic process, say this comes back and it's approved, then what's the next move? How will the Isles of Capri be able to respond, procedurally? Because our fire advisory board obviously is already -- irregardless of what they come up with in East Naples, they're going to vote in the affirmative. Those five guys do not represent the majority of the people of the Isles of Capri. What opportunity are we going to have? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: You are not an independent fire district, therefore, as residents of the Isles of Capri, every budgetary decision within that does not go to a vote because you're not an independent district. Much like any county operation, it is this board's job to set policy and our administrator's job to carry it out in the -- MR. BOWMAN: It's the county administrator -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- providing of services. Mr. Bowman, please don't interrupt me, sir. I don't interrupt you. MR. BOWMAN: I apologize, sir. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We will make that decision at the appropriate time after having input from the residents, sir. We are all publicly accessible. So we will make the decision based on the information provided us and the response and indications from the citizens of Isles of Capri in a public forum in a public hearing. That is process and it is due process. We're not required to go to an election on every facet of government service, including the Isles of Capri Fire Department. It's much like our roadway system. I mean, we don't vote on every element of that. We don't take that to the voters. So it's treated the same as every other government service. It's a part of our overall service program and services we provide to the community. So no, there won't be a community-wide vote. MR. BOWMAN: There will not -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: No, sir. MR. BOWMAN: -- be a community-wide vote? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: No, sir. MR. BOWMAN: Then our petitions are worthless? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: No, sir. Did I just say that? I'm sorry. thought I said that we would be -- MR. BOWMAN: That it would not be put to a vote, you said. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: That's correct. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: board. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: COHMISSIONER NORRIS: COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: The voting is to elect the people on this No, we appoint them. No, no, on this board. On this board, okay. If we don't vote the way you want us to, then your recourse is to get us out of here. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The important thing is Commissioner Norris has said there's going to be both meetings on the Isles of Capri, so there's opportunity for input there. If it makes it back, and it appears that's still an if, but if it makes it back to this board, it's a public hearing just like today and there's ample opportunity then. So the residents of the Isles of Capri will have ample opportunity under the process, if it even ever makes it back here to this board. If it does, there's an opportunity to stand up just like you are now. And obviously if the community's will is very clear in one direction, then the board is hard-pressed to do something else. So there will be every opportunity for the community to participate in the process. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry. COMMISSIONER BERRY: It seems like the most important thing that has to happen now is the full education of the residents on the Isles of Capri so they know exactly what is involved in this whole operation here, what's trying to be done and the reason for it. And I think meeting with Mr. Fernandez and having these civic group meetings, et cetera, is the perfect way to get that accomplished. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Agreed. COMMISSIONER BERRY: So I would encourage, if there's any other groups down there other than the Civic Association on the Isles of Capri, I would -- I would try and get as many people out to these meetings or set up meetings so everybody has got the same song and are singing from the same page. But the main thing right now it sounds to me is a lack of information for everybody down there and a lack of understanding as how this transpires, and I am certain that Mr. Fernandez can certainly help in that. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Let's wrap that up, Mr. Fernandez, if we can. MR. FERNANDEZ: Mr. Chairman, I do agree that education of the residents is a very important element in this, but I do think there's been confusion about the role of the Isles of Capri advisory board. And the reason for that confusion is because it's one of the two dependent districts that you have. This Board of County Commissioners is the governing board for that fire district, not the advisory board of the Isles of Capri fire district. That's just an advisory board. So I think there's some expectation on the part of the community there that that advisory board consider the sentiments of the public and carry that sentiment forward to the Board of County Commissioners, when in reality, as an advisory board, they really don't have the obligation to do that. This board is going to be making the decisions about that. And as we have said, the public forum that you hold here at the time that that product is presented to you is the time that you will hear the input from the community. So I think there's some confusion in that there's an expectation that the Isles of Capri advisory board should reflect that community's sentiment and it's not necessarily their obligation that they do that. COHMISSIONER BERRY: That's part of the education process, is that clearing up that matter of who does what here and what the responsibilities are. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: It is this board that ultimately will act -- MR. FERNANDEZ: This is the board that will make the decisions CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- on the recommendations. MR. FERNANDEZ: Right. MR. BOWMAN: So in conclusion, Mr. Chairman, we should meet with the county manager and members of his staff, Mr. Oates, and they will assist us in considering our proposal for presentation to this group, right? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: You can do that. Mr. Fernandez's office will make the appropriate staff available to meet with you on whatever the issue is. I don't understand what you're planning on presenting in the first place, but assuming that, yes, Mr. Fernandez's office will designate the appropriate staff to meet and discuss with you what options are available. Thank you, Mr. Bowman. MR. BOWMAN: Then there will be no action by this committee until we have met? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: No, sir. This board -- this board will take action in an appropriate time frame in a publicly advertised meeting as we do on all actions that come before us. MR. BOWMAN: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Next speaker. MR. FERNANDEZ: Next speaker is Pete Kocik and then Ty Agoston. MR. KOCIK: Good morning ladies and gentlemen. My name is Pete Kocik and I am a resident of the Isles of Capri, and in your wisdom, you covered a lot of points that I was going to address here this morning. But a couple that I would like to bring to your attention are that there are no documented problems with the fire department on the Isles of Capri. There has been a lot of speculation as to us having problems down there, and I believe a lot of them have been created by the advisory board that the -- the advisory board I believe has created issues that are nonexistent. So I would like for you to take into consideration this hasn't been documented yet as any of the problems that -- for being reasons why we should subcontract out to East Naples. Also, Mr. Norris, there has been an address to East Naples merging with the Isles of Capri and it was addressed by the fire advisory board on October 2nd and it was specifically mentioned there would be consideration for merger with Isles of Capri by East Naples. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: That is not what is under consideration. MR. KOCIK: Well, it's in the minutes, sir. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: That's not what is under consideration by this board. MR. KOCIK: No, not at this time. I understand that. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, anybody can say anything they want to at any time, but what's under consideration by this board is simply a contract for services, not a merger and not a takeover and not a discontinuation of your fire service and your station. MR. KOCIK: I understand that's not under consideration at this time, but I just wanted to make known to you it was mentioned. COMHISSIONER NORRIS: I am well aware of that. I am just saying that's not what is under consideration by this board. MR. KOCIK: Okay. Well, finishing up, I would just ask you to take all information that would be presented to you before any -- any action is taken, which you have explained when it will be taken. So, thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That might explain, though, why there's some misconception. If someone said that in a public hearing and that was repeated, that may -- COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Well, Mr. Bowman is circulating letters indicating that it was going to be a takeover by East Naples and taxes going up and that sort of thing. I mean, that sort of misinformation spread by Mr. Bowman is certainly the root cause of the discontent on the Isles of Capri. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Fernandez hit on the key. There is an advisory board in place, but the final fiscal decisions and policy decisions for that department are set by this board. So that's a very clear distinction that needs to be made. They are advisory and we certainly take their recommendations under consideration, but they are nonbinding. So we will hopefully continue to do what we think is in the best interests of the citizens of Isles of Capri with the input from both the advisory board and the citizens. MR. KOCIK: Right. Then I think a lot of residents have become aware of that, that it's not the advisory board. They were under the misunderstanding that that's what it was. And so we will be looking to you for the final on this. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. PUBLIC COMMENT - TY AGOSTON REGARDING ADVISORY BOARDS AND SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT 800 NUMBERS MR. FERNANDEZ: Mr. Ty Agoston and then Mary Dunavan. MR. AGOSTON: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Ty Agoston. I live in Golden Gate Estates and I am speaking for myself. Last week I have attended the Sustainable Southwest Florida meeting that was held in Naples. As a matter of fact, I ran across Mr. Hancock, who had made some remarks, as I understand. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I did note you were late, Ty. MR. AGOSTON: Well, you know, I don't get up as early as I used to. An interesting thing that I ran across -- I generally look at the material handout just to pick up some information, and I have noticed that there was a stack of applications. Apparently there is a vacancy on the -- Governor Chiles' board and I was surprised to see that Miss Mac'Kie is part of the applicant process there. Apparently she wanted to join. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Actually, I have been appointed. MR. AGOSTON: Have you been? COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes. MR. AGOSTON: Well, I am not going to say congratulations -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I know. MR. AGOSTON: -- because I think you know my opinion about that. But what I was going to ask, I understand you have a young daughter? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I do, and a son. MR. AGOSTON: And you believe in a holistic process? Are you ready to assign to the government the establishment of your daughter's values or role? Well, that's what that's about. Holistic happens to mean just that, ma'am. You assign to the government -- you know, this village concept that someone else will bear the responsibility for your children. Someone else will set its life role. It explains its role in life and its -- well, you know, I just wanted to ask. I was curious. Another point I was going to make is that I see that the executive summary contains the members for the technical advisory board for the county. Frankly, gentlemen, every meeting that I go to, I see the same people as represented by the Audubon. Represented by the Wildlife Federation. The Conservancy, several members. It's the same with this board. I have yet to see a regular, what I call normal public. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: As opposed to abnormal public? MR. AGOSTON: Well, I'm sorry for the language. I couldn't think of a better term to describe what I mean. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm sorry. MR. AGOSTON: It's just, you know, the average kind of a guy like these guys sitting here. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Oh, you're by no means average, Ty. MR. AGOSTON: And, you know, I wanted to publicly apply to that position. I think I am -- if somewhat overeducated, somewhat undernourished, but the fact of the matter is, I think I would love to have a role on an environmental advisory board. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: That would be wonderful. MR. AGOSTON: I think so, too. The case in point, gentlemen -- ladies and gentlemen, last night my wife was driving home and I have an island in front of my house for the driveway and there was a black bear. A back bear in front of my house. The black bear, according to my wife's estimate, weighed about three, three hundred fifty, four hundred pounds. I called the sheriff. The sheriff give me an 800 number. The 800 number told me to call back tomorrow morning. So I was kind of aggravated. I made a martini and I went and picked up a book. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Did you make one for the bear? MR. AGOSTON: It did make me feel better. But let me just continue. This morning -- I had my garbage put out last night and this morning my garbage was strewn all over my driveway in front of my house. And I am not all that ambitious to do any physical work so I was not exactly happy about this. So I called the sheriff's office and I went through the same kind of a transaction. I was given an 800 number. Now, ladies and gentlemen, I am paying the sheriff to protect my life, my safety, but more importantly -- and this is where it turns serious, I have a four year old grandson who lives next door to me, who comes over very often because he likes to play with grandpa and grandpa loves to play with him. This damn thing -- oh, by the way, they finally send a wildlife officer who give me a very pious lecture about me invading the bear's living area. Now, give me a break, gentlemen. I mean, I explained to him that I know a little bit about the law and the fact that I am in a community. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Keep going. MR. AGOSTON: You know, this happens to be a residential community. Maybe it's sparsely built yet, but I assure them that that was a community. He didn't want to hear that. And I told him that the last time I owned a gun I was sixteen years old and I was part of a revolution, I had a machine gun, but I may just buy one if it takes that to defend my grandsons. I mean, I consider a black bear in front of my house -- hey, guys, I'm a city boy. I know nothing about bears. What kind of a protection do I count on? Are we paying the sheriff to hand out 800 numbers? I mean, is this the way we do business? COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, we're paying them about five million this year to hand out 800 numbers. MR. AGOSTON: I am well aware of that, but I appreciate your question about the grant because apparently that's how we get sucked into higher and higher rates every year. But, gentlemen, I like to know, do I get protected if I call the sheriff's office, Mr. Hancock? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Call the sheriff's office and ask him -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Would I have at least sent out an officer to shine his light around and check around your house and maybe scare off a bear if that needs to be done, I think that would be appropriate, yes, but I am not the sheriff. I am just a lowly county commissioner, so, you know, that's my opinion. MR. AGOSTON: Well, if they don't share it with you, sir, because like I said, I got an 800 number. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Which is kind of like getting put on hold on the suicide prevention line, right? MR. AGOSTON: That's right. Thank you very much. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: You might want -- Ty, you might want to call waste management because I understand -- no, no, for the garbage problem, so you don't to have keep picking it up. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Steve Bigelow will tell you the reason it smells out there is that bears smell bad. It's not really the landfill. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Where I was going with this, Ty, is quite seriously, I know this from my CREW Trust Board -- another one of those whacko environmental groups -- but there are sort of bear-proof garbage containers that they make available to more remote properties. That might at least keep you from having to pick up the garbage. Can't help you with the grandson. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And you can transport your grandson in them. MR. AGOSTON: Well, you know, that concerns me, honest to God. You know, the thing is, you know, garbage I can pick up. I need the exercise anyhow. But the fact of the matter is, this guy is some small, guys. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Ty, I am confident that the sheriff is -- someone in the sheriff's office is monitoring this and has probably heard that and hopefully will take a look at it. But I just want you to know if black bears are good enough in Port Royal, they're good enough in your neighborhood. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: It brings you right up. MR. AGOSTON: It's not the question of the quality, Mr. Hancock, it's more the question of the threat, you know. I am chicken. I am from the big city, you know. The last time I saw one of those was in the Brooklyn Zoo, you know, and I didn't want to see one. I really -- you know, the guy said that I was anti-animals. I said, are you kidding? I have a cat and a dog all my life. I love them. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: As much as I have thoroughly enjoyed this, we have to go to the next speaker, Ty. MR. AGOSTON: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. PUBLIC COHMENT - MARY DUNIVAN REGARDING POLICIES OF THE EAB MR. FERNANDEZ: Mary Dunavan and then Glen Dunavan. MS. DUNAVAN: This is going to be a hard act to follow. COHHISSIONER HAC'KIE: Ty always is. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I didn't mean to cut you off in midstream, Mary. I just thought this was more appropriate, so why don't we kind of pick up there; is that okay? MS. DUNAVAN: Okay. I did want to mention the Sustainable South Florida group that met and that Nettie Phillips and I attended on Friday. The SWIG group is the Southwest users' group meeting and that the public utilities were called to their table and the public utilities went around with them on how their wording was made and what they needed to leave out or change or put in. So if they are not intending for this to be law in our county, why are the public utilities even going into the tables and such as this. So I think we have a real, real problem. And to get back to the Environmental Policy Technical Advisory Board, actually the environmentalists are the ones that brought the Army Corps in. The environmentalists are the ones that have asked for a suit against Commissioner Norris and they have had several suits against our county. And Peter Daniels, a member of the international monetary fund has outlined five critical keys to a nation's economic and political stability. Number one, a rich modern agriculture base. Number two, a flexible and dependable energy source. Number three, a diverse non-energy natural resource base. Number four, a thriving technology base. Number five, a strong educational system grounded in the basics. All five of these are under attack by environmental leadership. If these leaders are permitted to continue unchecked their attack on these fundamental components, civilization will result in economic paralysis or worse yet maybe collapse. Our natural resources, for instance, are the raw materials for our nation's wealth and the engine that drives our prosperity. All wealth initially starts with the natural resources. Most Americans are unaware of it, but every paycheck in America is directly or indirectly dependant on our natural resource base. Ninety-nine sectors are listed in the scientific American chart of the input/output structure of the American economy. All ninety-nine are fundamental links to our natural resources. We cannot survive without using our resources. There are no exceptions. So we do have to take care with our natural resources. But the environmental groups have gone too far and they are destroying America. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Miss Dunavan. PUBLIC COHMENT - GLEN DUNIVAN REGARDING THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS EIS MR. FERNANDEZ: Glen Dunavan. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And how many -- MR. FERNANDEZ: Last speaker. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Thank you. MR. DUNAVAN: Good morning. I'm Glen Dunavan, and on this resolution that I am going read, I am representing TAG. It should have been read a couple weeks ago, but it wasn't. Be it resolved, that TAG opposes the memorandum of understanding (MOU) of the environmental impact statement (EIS). Whereas, in the October 21st, 1997 Collier County executive summary, the Collier County attorney cited unfavorable positions in MOU paragraph -- and it lists nine paragraphs which I won't go through -- and Whereas the Collier County commissioners have been made cognizant of other valid concerns regarding this MOU and the EIS by the taxpayers, voters and citizens of Collier County and by organizations such as TAG, citizens for constitutional property rights, Collier County building association and chamber of commerce, and Whereas, the Lee County Board of Commissioners have been strongly advised to respectfully decline to enter into the EIS, and Whereas, the Army Corps of Engineers has not responded satisfactory to forty-six questions submitted to the Corps by the Lee County Board of Commissioners, and Whereas, the Army Corps of Engineersw white paper dealing with EIS recommends establishing new revenue bases to support Sustainable South Florida capital requirements by incorporating the Governorws commission on Sustainable South Florida into the EIS, which translates to a new and increased taxes for Collier County taxpayers. Therefore, let it be resolved that Taxpayersw Action Group opposes the MOU and the EIS and respectively (sic) requests the Collier County Board of Commissioners decline to enter into the MOU and the EIS in the interest of taxpayers, voters and citizens of Collier County. And this finishes my resolution. Now I will speak on my own. And reading from a book -- and Mary showed it awhile ago -- by Michael Kaufman entitled "Savior of the Earth," condensing the contents of a couple of pages, A1 Gore believes the new central organizing principle -- thatws another new phrase that they dream up as they go along -- by the way, hews a great environmentalist. Theywre great at bringing in new phrases. Another new -- another thing accomplished increase of power, involvement of the environmental leadership. And thatws the end of the quote. This was done by pressuring Congress to pass extremely restrictive laws, then threatening with lawsuits, as youwre well acquainted, if they donwt enforce regulations in the way these leaders demand. Finally, these poor environmentalist leaders spend hundreds of millions of dollars to drastically change the intent of the original law. Does this sound familiar to you, also? On down it states, in 1960, there were twenty-five thousand pages of new regulations in the Federal Register each year. Today there are more than eighty thousand pages annually in the Federal Register. Our economy is suffering from the results of this. The Clean Water Act of 1972, Section 404, permitted the Corps to exercise regulatory responsibility for the discharge of dredge or fill material into navigable waters. The intent was to keep toxic waste from being discharged into major waterways and municipal water supply. Nowhere does the law mention the word wetland. With lawsuits, environmentalists expand the interpretation of the navigable waterways so it includes dry land. Bernard W. Good, former chief of the wetland regulatory office of the Corps, said it was not the intent of Congress to enact the wetland protection statute but a water quality act. And I say it was not intended to guarantee lifelong education, affordable housing, everything you need within a five-minute walking distance, to keep people out of parks, reduce human consumption and as a course -- the Corps intends to do in this area. Thank you. CHAIRNLAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Dunavan. Before we take a quick break, Iwm going to ask -- you know, wewre fortunate enough to have a lot of people that come on a regular basis and address the board under public comment and general topics. In the past, itws been my policy as chairman that those topics need to be directly related to action the board is taking. Now, the comments regarding the proposed MOU I find entirely appropriate. What I am going to ask for your assistance on is if you are looking to just disseminate information, whether it be about an environmental group, whether it be on abortion, whether it be on property rights, that that's not what public comment for general topics is all about. So I am going to ask you to continue to please refine your comments to actions or proposed actions that this board is either contemplating or may come before this board. I appreciate the information, but as I told Mr. Perkins early in my position as chairman, it opens up the door for anybody that wants to say anything about any topic or make a position statement to do so. So I have to be careful not to open the Pandora's box on that. So I am going to ask for your assistance in the future. If you would help me do that, I would appreciate it. With that, the court reporter has not had a break yet. Let's take ten minutes and return and reconvene with the balance of the agenda. (Break was taken at 11:00 a.m.) Item #12B1 ORDINANCE 97-70 RE PETITION PUD-92-6(1), BRUCE TYPSON OF WILSON, MILLER, BARTON & PEEK, INC., REPRESENTING PELICAN LAKE LIMITED PARTNERSHIP FOR THE PURPOSE OF AMENDING SOUTHWOODS PUD BY CHANGING THE NAME TO PELICAN LAKE; BY CHANGING REFERENCE TO OWNERS; BY INCREASING THE MAXIMUM AREA OF ALLOWABLE UTILITY/STORAGE FACILITY, AND BY DECREASING THE BOUNDARY SETBACK REQUIREMENT FOR PROPERTY ON THE EAST SIDE OF S.R. 951 - ADOPTED CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Good afternoon. We're going to reconvene the -- reconvene the Board of County Commissioners' meeting. We are at Item 12 on our agenda, advertised public hearings. Under 12-B, zoning amendments, the first item is PUD 92-6(1). Bruce Tyson of Wilson, Miller, Barton & Peek, representing Pelican Lake Limited Partnership. This is a quasi-judicial matter and for that purpose, members of our staff, members of the petitioner's team and all members of the public here to speak on this item, please stand and raise your right hand. Madam Court Reporter, would you please swear them in? (Speakers were sworn.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Mr. Nino, good morning. MR. NINO: Good morning. Ron Nino, for the record. The petition that's before you would ask you to amend the Southwoods PUD in a very -- in three ways. One, to change the name of Southwoods to Pelican Lake. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I don't know if we can handle that one. MR. NINO: And two, to allow an increase in the size of utility sheds from 60 square feet to 100 square feet. And three, to reduce the boundary setback, the perimeter setback from 50 feet to 30 feet. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Nino, for the purpose of disclosure, I have met with the petitioners on this item and have had no other correspondence to my knowledge. I will base my decision on the information presented here today. And I say that because I am about to do cut to the chase after everyone else does their disclosure. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I have had some contact but I will base my decision on this hearing. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I had a brief meeting this morning with the applicants. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry. COHMISSIONER BERRY: I too have met with the petitioner. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I don't have any recollection of that but if I did -- COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Okay, A1. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- I will -- I will make my decision as required by state law. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: As I understand it, the shed issue is completely an internal issue; there's no external impacts. Changing the name is kind of a no-brainer. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Who could care less? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And providing addressing has seen it and doesn't have a problem with it. MR. NINO: Correct. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. The only remaining issue is the setback issue of any substance. I understand the original property owner created for themselves, whether by accident or omission, a 70-foot wide strip between two RV parks and they're just requesting a reduction in setback from 50 to 30 feet along that common boundary and another one that is adjacent to mobile home zoning. Is that it in a nutshell? MR. NINO: That's it in a nutshell. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I don't know about the rest of you folks, but I don't have a real problem with that. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Is that strip perpetually vacant between the two? COHMISSIONER NORRIS: It's owned by someone. MR. NINO: It's owned by another party. How it comes about, we don't know. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: They could put a 30-foot wide house on it. I mean, it's seven acres. It would be a very long, narrow house. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Hallway. MR. NINO: Could plant row crops. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Row crops, there we go. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Okay. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: But it was created by the property owner because he originally owned the parcels to the north and south. are there any registered speakers on this, Mr. Fernandez? MR. FERNANDEZ: No. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Close the public hearing. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve. COHMISSIONER BERRY: Second it. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries five-zero. Excellent presentation, Mr. Tyson. Thank you. Item #12B2 ORDINANCE 97-71 RE PETITION PUD-82-29(3), ROBERT L. DUANE OF HOLE, HONTES & ASSOCIATES REPRESENTING C. C. NAPLES, INC., A DELAWARE CORPORATION, AND JOHN N. BRUGGER, TRUSTEE, FOR A REZONE FROM "PUD" TO "PUD", PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT KNOWN AS THE RETREAT FOR THE PURPOSE OF ALLOWING A CONTINUING CARE RETIREMENT COHMUNITY INCLUSIVE OF SPECIALIZED HEALTH CARE LIVING UNITS ON TRACT "B" AND MAKING OTHER CHANGES TO THE AMENDED PUD WHILE CONSOLIDATING ALL PREVIOUS AMENDMENTS INTO A NEW PUD DOCUMENT LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF NORTH TAMIAMI TRAIL AND EXTENDING WEST TO VANDERBILT DRIVE NORTH OF WIGGINS PASS ROAD - ADOPTED Item 12-B-2, PUD 82-29(3). Bob Duane of Hole, Hontes & Associates representing C.C. Naples, Inc. and John Brugger, trustee to fezone from PUD to PUD known as The Retreat. This also is a quasi-judicial matter. All members of our staff, members of the public here to speak on the matter and petitioner's team, please stand and raise your right hand. Madam Court Reporter, would you please swear them in? (Speakers were sworn.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. MR. NINO: Hay I ask you to circulate that? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: You knew I was going there. I am looking for that information. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. And it will be entered into the record, we have the beneficiaries of the owner's trust presented to the board at this time. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: First we need to look at it before we determine if we can vote. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Correct. However, in the area of disclosure, I have met with Mr. Duane, petitioner's representative, on this matter and others, but will base my decision on the information presented here today. Mr. Norris, yeah, that's your name. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Same disclosure. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Mac'Kie. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Brief meeting with Mr. Duane, but that's it. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I don't really recall but -- COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Okay, Bill. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- I will base my decision as required by state law. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry. COHMISSIONER BERRY: I guess age is a real problem on this commission. I do remember that I met with someone in regard to this matter. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: When you get to be my age, Barbara. MR. NINO: Ron Nino, for the record. The petition before you asks you to amend The Retreat PUD to allow on the remaining vacant tract the construction of a hundred and ninety units of assisted living facilities. The Retreat PUD was a PUD that was approved for 740 dwelling units. This revision will not change that number, however, as the staff report points out, in the real world when we're dealing with 190 units of assisted living facilities versus 190 conventional dwelling units, in the real world there is a substantial reduction on levels of service and demand for sewer and water, et cetera. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Did you see any problems in the application here or inconsistencies in the application with any county codes or recommendations you would make? MR. NINO: No, we did not, and there was no objection either voiced at the Planning Commission or communicated to us by any member of the public or any person residing in The Retreat PUD. The Planning Commission were unanimous in their support of the revisions. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Do we have any questions of Mr. Nino? Seeing none, are there registered speakers on this, Mr. Fernandez? MR. FERNANDEZ: Pardon me? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Do we have any registered speakers? I'm sorry, Commissioner Mac'Kie, did you need to get something answered before proceeding? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's okay. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Fernandez? MR. FERNANDEZ: You have none. No speakers. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have none. What's the desire of the board? I will close the public hearing. Does anyone -- before doing so, does anyone wish to hear from the petitioner on this matter? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just want somebody to -- I guess Mr. Brugger to make his representation about who the beneficiaries are part of the sworn record since it's not a part of the application, and, guys, that's a big part; it's got to be a part. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Doesn't that sheet that he circulated suffice? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's a handwritten piece of paper. I would like for it to -- MR. BRUGGER: I will be glad to submit that as an affidavit form or whatever you want. There was a copy of the trust attached, and for some reason it's not in the package. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Name, please, for the record. MR. BRUGGER: I'm sorry. John M. Brugger. I am the trustee for the property owners. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Also, he has verified that the attachment now handed to the court reporter is an affidavit of the trustee ownership for members of the trust. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thanks. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: That being the case, I will close the public hearing. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER BERRY: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries five-zero. Item #12C2 RESOLUTION 97-438 AMENDING CONDITION ONE OF RESOLUTION 97-03 FOR A PROPERTY KNOWN AS ARBOR LAKE CLUB PUD TO CORRECT A SCRIVENER'S ERROR IN THE TOTAL NUMBER OF DWELLING UNITS APPROVED FOR SAID PUD - ADOPTED Next item, Item 12-C-2, resolution amending condition number one of Resolution 97-03 for the property known as Arbor Lake Club PUD. Again, a quasi-judicial matter. Would members of the staff, any petitioners present or members of the public here to speak on this item please stand and raise your right hand? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Mulhere, is this strictly a scrivener's -- MR. MULHERE: That's correct, this item as well as the next are both scriveners -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Do you feel the need to offer any testimony on this or do you feel the application stands on its own? MR. MULHERE: I do feel the application stands on its own. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We can avoid a swear in that way. Do we have any speakers on this? MR. FERNANDEZ: You have no speakers. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, I will close the public hearing. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, motion to approve. COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries five-zero. Item #12C3 ORDINANCE 97-72 AMENDING ORDINANCE NUHBER 97-38 TO CORRECT A SCRIVENER'S ERROR IN THE LEGAL DESCRIPTION OF THE ISLAND PINES GARDEN PUD LOCATED IN SECTION 8, TOWNSHIP 505, RANGE 29E - ADOPTED Next item, 12-C-3. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Also a scrivener's error. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Again a scrivener's error amending Ordinance 97-38. Mr. Hulhere, again, does the written record in our packet stand for itself or do you need to add anything to it? MR. HULHERE: No, sir, I do not need to. It's simply a striking through the "W" on northwest. Very minor change. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I think we can handle that. Any speakers on this, Mr. Fernandez? MR. FERNANDEZ: No speakers, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, I will close the public hearing. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve. COHMISSIONER BERRY: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion on the motion? A very contentious item, no doubt. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) Motion carries five-zero. Item #13A1 RESOLUTION 97-439 RE PETITION NUA-97-3, HR. EDWARD TERRY REQUESTING A NON-CONFORMING USE ALTERATION IN ORDER TO ALLOW THE PROPERTY OWNER TO REPLACE AN EXISTING NON-CONFORMING MOBILE HOME UNIT WITH A DOUBLE WIDE MOBILE HOME FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 609 BOOKER BOULEVARD - ADOPTED We're to Item 13-A-1 under advertised public hearing. This is Petition NUA-97-3, Mr. Edward Terry requesting a non-conforming use alteration to allow the property owner to replace an existing non-conforming mobile home unit. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I have one question. I thought we made this -- staff administratively could approve these. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: No, that doesn't ring a bell with me. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: No? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: No. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Taking out junk and putting in something new seems like a good thing to me. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Just in case there are questions, let me go ahead and do the swear in. Would members of staff -- MR. BELLOWS: It is -- in the agricultural zoning district that is an administrative function, but in this case it's our mistake. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Oh, I see. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Would members of staff, members of the petitioner's team, if they're present, please stand and raise your right hand? I'm sorry, and any members of the public to speak on this. Madam Court Reporter, would you please swear Mr. Bellows in? (Speaker was sworn.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Mr. Bellows, anything unusual? MR. BELLOWS: No, this is simply, as you stated, replacing a single-wide with a double-wide for a preexisting structure. It's surrounded by the area of Immokalee and my site visit has existing mobile homes -- dwellings in the arm of -- surrounding this and this particular unit in the dilapidated condition would be replaced with a new One. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: With the adjacent property owners being notified, was there any objection to this? MR. BELLOWS: No objections. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Questions for Mr. Bellows? Do we have speakers on this? MR. FERNANDEZ: No speakers. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I will close the public hearing. COMMISSIONER BERRY: I move for approval. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Second was by Commissioner Constantine by just a nose. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries five-zero. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second by a nose. Item #13B1 RESOLUTION 97-440 RE PETITION CU-96-12, DON APPERSON REQUESTING AN EXTENSION OF CONDITIONAL USE "1" IN THE "E" ESTATES ZONING DISTRICT TO ALLOW FOR A HOUSE OF WORSHIP THAT HAS PREVIOUSLY RECEIVED CONDITIONAL USE APPROVAL FOR PROPERTY LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF GOLDEN GATE BOULEVARD - ADOPTED COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Hr. Chairman, this next one is just a re-up of a conditional use on a church. I assume nothing has changed since we approved that? MR. BELLOWS: Nothing has changed. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Do we have any speakers on Item 13-B-l? MR. FERNANDEZ: No speakers. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, I will close the public hearing. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Motion to approve the item. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and second. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries five-zero. Folks, public hearings are not supposed to go that fast but everyone is to be commended. Item #14A SUCCESSFUL CASE REGARDING COLLIER COUNTY AND DCA We are to staff communications, Mr. Weigel. MR. WEIGEL: Thank you, commissioners. A couple -- just a couple points, and that is, I'd like to bring to all the board's attention a couple matters that have been successful for the county in the courts, the Department of Community Affairs and the first one, Mr. Chairman, you know of and it's what we call the Eco-Swift, the Environmental Confederation of Southwest Florida case, Gary Beardsley vs. the DCA and Collier County and some private and individual entities. And in that one, the county was successful with a total remand of the case, and we're pleased to report that to the board. Item #14B CASE DENIED REGARDING COLLIER COUNTY AND BARRAVECCHIO The second matter is one we call the Barravecchio case. The Barravecchios and other individuals were petitioners against Collier County and the board as the board of zoning appeals for writ of certiorari on actions taken of a property nature which was denied. The writ was denied by the court here locally with Judge Brousseau and Judge Monaco working on that together. Item #14C ITEM REGARDING INTERIM GOVERNMENT SERVICES FEE TO BE ON DECEMBER 16, 1997 AGENDA Additionally, something I haven't talked about for awhile, in the subject of fairness, it's the interim government services fee, and fairness because it's a fee that's come to discussion to achieve fairness in the services that are provided and the costs that are paid for services in the county. The interim government services fee resolution of intent and notice of intent to use it will be advertised for the December 16th board meeting similar to what was done last year. It will have four weeks of advertisement commencing either this Friday or Saturday and the four preceding weeks to the December 16th board hearing date. At that point, it's merely a notice of intent required under Chapter 197 of the Florida Statutes, and from that point and forward then, we will be bringing to the board shortly thereafter an ordinance for adoption concerning -- for discussion, I should say, and consideration for adoption concerning the interim government services fees. I am going to be meeting with Mr. Allen Watts, our outside counsel specialist, and Mr. John Yonkosky of the Department of Revenue this Thursday afternoon and we hope to finish up our review of a draft. As previously discussed with the board and suggested by Mr. Watts, it will have elements of both certificate of occupancy and use of the property tax bill, the CO concept being as a fail-safe measure if need be. We do intend to go forward with it as originally discussed with a validation scenario through the courts. And if you have any questions, I will be happy to respond, but just to let you know that we are on track to go forward with that. Item #14D DISCUSSION REGARDING TDC FUNDS FOR 1996 GOLF TOURNAMENT Last week I mentioned that I am going to be providing a memo to the Board of County Commissioners at previous board direction, in fact, which was whether the county has a viable ability to sue either Intellinet or Mr. Rasmussen under a theory of third-party beneficiary concerning the 1996 golf tournament and the application that came to the county for TDC funds in regard to that. Quite frankly, I have looked at that on and off over the last few weeks. I have pretty much formulated my opinion but I wanted to provide a little bit of the Hornbook law as explanation to you, as I know that these documents are often reviewed by many others so that it would be maybe a little bit more explanatory to others as well as the board. But my -- I will just tell you right now, my initial concept as I prepare to print is very similar to my initial concept as when I heard the question brought to me, and that is that I am tending not to see that there is an ability to sue or successfully sue under a third-party beneficiary cause of action. Beyond that, though, in looking to provide the board with a review of any kind of cause that may be there, I have also specifically been looking at fraud or fraud in the inducement, which is a totally separate theory under contract law. And I will say right now it still does not look that I am going to come with a conclusion that we have a viable ability to sue, but I will be explaining that with great detail to you in both of those concepts we look at here. Hope to get that out to you next week. I am trying to be at home taking care of my kids for the next couple of days and although I will be working on it, I don't know that I will get it to you by the end of this week. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Make sure the kids are taken care of. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: When you do present that to us, Mr. Weigel, will it be -- is it your intention to have a discussion in this forum of that issue or just to present us with the memo? MR. WEIGEL: I thought I would present you with a memo, although I can certainly do it either way you like. There will be something in writing regardless, however. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I think present it to each individual board member in a written memorandum. If there is need for discussion, a board member can offer that at a meeting. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sure. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Fernandez. MR. FERNANDEZ: I have nothing to add, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Commissioner Mac'Kie. Item #15A DISCUSSION REGARDING CLERK AND THE JUDICIARY'S BUDGET COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just -- I had a question for the county attorney on a different issue -- two questions, actually. One is with regard to this business between the clerk and the judiciary. Is -- do you have a recommendation to us? Is there something as simple as the judiciary would propose a budget that we would adopt that then would allow this lawsuit to all be dropped? I mean, if the missing piece of the puzzle is that we need to adopt a budget, and if apparently the clerk's association for the entire state of Florida thinks that we should do that, is this simple or is this more complicated than that? MR. WEIGEL: It is more complicated. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I was afraid of that. MR. WEIGEL: Currently there are two actions, one with the Supreme Court and another one with the Second District Court of Appeals, initiated by the clerk. The action in the Supreme Court was initiated by Judge Starnes, the chief administrative judge of the 20th judicial circuit. Collier County is not a party to the action before the Supreme Court nor a party to the one before the District Court of Appeals, although a motion has been filed by the clerk to implead us into the actions with the Florida Supreme Court. In fact, upon kind of late breaking, just in the last day arriving materials, because we were not served prior to yesterday in this regard, we are working to file a type of response in the Supreme Court, although we are not recognized or required to be a party at this point in time. Additionally, the Florida Association of Clerks has filed an amicus brief with the Supreme Court on behalf of Mr. Brock. It's not simple. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, wait, let me ask my question again, because I know that there are a lot of complicated issues. My question was, if we adopted a budget, as -- if we asked the chief judge to recommend a budget and we adopted a budget, wouldn't that make all of this moot? Isn't that a simple solution to a complex problem? I guess if you don't have an answer today, would you think about that and see if it might be an easy answer for next week? MR. WEIGEL: I think I can give you an answer, and pardon my being long-winded there. I wanted to give you as much information as I could in my moment here. But it may make part of the problem moot. It may. But there are many different edges to this and perhaps Mr. Fernandez would like to also talk about it a little bit, because we have contemplated various ways to try to resolve this over the last weeks and months. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Well, actually, Bob, if there's something that you need to add, that's fine. But the bottom line is, we haven't been sitting on our hands watching the 20th judicial sue the clerk and me sitting in my office saying, gee, isn't that awful. Mr. Fernandez and I have met with Dwight. We have discussed with him what an option or opportunity might be available. We have conveyed that. I have conveyed it by letter form to the 20th judicial circuit, which is that we would treat them as we do the public health unit and make all payments to the state comptroller's office, and they would then disseminate the money back to the circuit. Whether that is or isn't acceptable to the 20th judicial circuit is yet to be known. But I think it goes without saying that if the 20th judicial circuit was simply interested in resolving the matter by preparing a budget, they would have done so before filing suit against the clerk of court. If that's -- do you understand what I'm saying? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh, I understand that. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I think there is a bigger issue here for the 20th judicial circuit that they are wishing to air that goes beyond resolving this immediate matter, otherwise, they would have just prepared a line-item budget and asked us to approve it, because that seems the easiest step. So Mr. Fernandez and I have considered that option. It could occur, but the circuit has taken its course of action without, you know, sitting down with us and talking about it, so we are kind of subject to that action whether we like it or not. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. Could you copy -- I'd like to see a copy of the letter where we proposed something. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And what I am interested in doing is proposing -- requesting that the judiciary prepare a budget and submit it to us. You know, let's suggest an easy solution even -- and then have it rejected if that's not what they want to do, but why not offer something easy? Item #15B DISCUSSION REGARDING THE CORP OF ENGINEERS EIS But that was one of my questions. The other one was -- and it kind of ties to my question about the claims against Intellinet and how that information should be disseminated. I just got, today, yesterday's memos answering the question, I think, about whether or not the Army Corps of Engineers has the jurisdiction and authority to go forward and do the EIS without our joinder. Is it going to happen whether we participate or not? And the answer as I see it in this memo is, yes, they can do it whether we participate or not. And I am glad to have that answer. Now I would like to have, you know, a discussion maybe on next week's agenda about what our position is going to be now that we know the answer to that question. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: It appears to me that it answers that if all of the other hurdles are cleared, they can go ahead with or without us but -- MR. WEIGEL: That is correct. COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- that still doesn't answer all of the questions that we asked the Corps, specifically, what gives them the authority to start with? With or without us, what gives them the authority? And they may very well have it, but that question isn't clearly answered in that memo. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I think -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Again, I have -- COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I think it is, though. It says that cooperation by any local government is not a mandatory requirement. It says that the Corps does have the authority to go forward with an EIS. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Look, look, this board authorized me to request information from the Corps to answer those specifically. I have requested that. I don't have it. When I get it, we will put it on the agenda. Similar to the situation with the 20th judicial circuit and the clerk, if you simply want to know if we have addressed it, then that's the reason we have a chairman. I am doing those things. I am happy to update you under board communications, but let's not create discussion items under BCC communications. We need to schedule it. And let's propose we schedule it and do so. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, that's what I just said, maybe we could do that next week now that we have the answer. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I don't have the answers from the Corps of Engineers that this board asked me to get. COHHISSIONER HAC'KIE: But you have the answer from your own attorney. MR. WEIGEL: Well, and that's part of the answer, because we ourselves have written independent questions of the forty-six that were also transmitted to Lee County to the Corps of Engineers. This states the principles upon which an EIS can go forward. But there are some prerequisites which we do not know have occurred. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. MR. WEIGEL: And they are -- it would appear that they have to be related to a project or an assessment, and we don't have that information back from the Corps to tell us that that is the case. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Okay. MR. WEIGEL: Yes, there is general statutory authorization under the 1970 Natural Environmental Protection Act, I guess it is, NEPA, but beyond that -- and they don't -- once they have the ability to do an EIS, they don't have to have the county participation, but the other questions are still outstanding. But this is kind of just to give you kind of some more background on it, but it's not the end all be all to the specifics of what they're attempting to do. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Okay. That's all I have. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Norris. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, Mr. Chairman, I would just like to point out that we have with us today that world famous backwoods guide, Earl of the north. Would you stand up and be recognized, sir? (Applause.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: If you ever want to know how to get around Maine, Earl is your man. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Earl is your man. Mr. Moose, they call him. Give us the moose call, Earl. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry. Item #15C SUGGESTION TO BE BROUGHT TO THE PRODUCTIVITY COHMITTEE REGARDING ASSISTING THE CLERK IN RESOLVING PROBLEMS COHMISSIONER BERRY: This is a little bit related to the discussion that Miss Hac'Kie has brought up, and it seems like this is the second item that suddenly there's some difficulty over in the clerk's office, and the county commission is kind of brought into it as being someone that is involved in it in some way, shape or form. I think in the past, and I know currently, we have a productivity committee that is working with the sheriff's department, and it's working very effectively. And as you-all know, he is a constitutional officer. I suspect and I am wondering if it might not be a bad idea, we have a productivity committee meeting tomorrow morning, to propose perhaps that they work with the clerk's office to see if there's some areas whereby they could make some suggestions if there is an ongoing problem with, you know, the manner in which things happen between the clerk's office and the county commissioners. If there's something they could advise him on and help bring out, you know, some of these problems, that perhaps this might be a good forum for that kind of discussion. I know in the past it's been that the productivity committee has mainly focused on the county administrator's budget and those kind of things. Perhaps this might be appropriate, again, citing the fact that he has -- or that the productivity committee has worked with the sheriff and that the sheriff is a constitutional officer, so the precedent has already been set, if you will, to simply offer their services, to come in and see if there's some situations whereby they could assist him. And, therefore, we would happen not to be continually brought into some of these problems. And it's just a suggestion, but I -- if you want to put this on an agenda at a future time in terms of giving direction to the productivity committee or if you want me to bring it up to them tomorrow to bounce it off of them and then come back with a response, it's strictly up to the board. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's a very good idea. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I love that idea. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I do, too, but let's also remember that in the sheriff's issue, the sheriff agreed. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh, yeah. COMHISSIONER BERRY: Oh, I understand. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Because -- so it has to be a joint agreement between the clerk and the board. COMHISSIONER BERRY: But I think it would be -- I think it would be a nice gesture for us to offer to assist the clerk to find any other areas where there might be some conflict that we have not been made aware of and so then we could go forward with that. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I think it's a terrific idea. Let's -- the next available agenda when Mr. Brock is available, let's ask him to come in and ask if he believes that would be a good idea, and if so, we can then direct the productivity committee to do that. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: As a conduit for communication if nothing else. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: That's the thing is -- I feel like sometimes we're kind of the issue -- it comes to a head and then we get involved. And so maybe there's a communication issue there that we can -- COMHISSIONER BERRY: Well, then we read in the paper that the commissioners haven't done such and such. And it's kind of like well, wait a minute. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's an odd place to decide -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So I didn't call Gina back yesterday, so that was my fault. COMHISSIONER BERRY: Just a suggestion. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's a good one. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine. COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: A couple of quick items, Mr. Weigel, before you go upstairs, I want to see you today. Just a couple of quick things. Earl isn't just your man. Earl is "the" man. COMHISSIONER NORRIS: "The" man. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Isn't that yelled every time he hits a drive? COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yes, it is. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: In case anybody at home doesn't know Earl's last name -- COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Mac'Kie CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The man. COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Constantine. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Constantine. Item #15D LANDFILL SITING ITEM TO BE ON NOVEMBER 25, 1997 AGENDA COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Next week I am going to place on the agenda a landfill item. We have scheduled to come to us the siting issue December 16th, but I do have one preparatory item that I think will be appearing on next week's agenda, so just so you're aware. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Give us a hint what it is. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: This is as much of a hint as you're getting. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: In the interest of full disclosure. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: It will be on tomorrow's thing, I think. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I think you already know this, but I have also asked for information from David Russell on different things. Just trying to get more information, so I didn't think it was counter to what you were doing. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No, no, no, and actually that's the very purpose. I know there are a number of different things and just as we prepare for December, it might be nice to bring some of those -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Things get tough sometimes when I can't tell you I just went and did this. So I'm looking for that information. So I can do it in this form. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So we have a little tease on the landfill. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just a tease. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: All right. I have absolutely nothing. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Congratulations. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So let's call it a day. Miss Filson, may we go? MS. FILSON: Yes. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you very much. Commissioner Norris moved, seconded by Commissioner Constantine, and carried unanimously, that the following items under the Consent Agenda be approved and/or adopted: Item #16A1 RESOLUTION 97-433, GRANTING FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF THE ROADWAY, DRAINAGE, WATER AND SEWER IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF "VILLAGE WALK, PHASE THREE" Item #16A2 RESOLUTION 97-434, RE PETITION AV-97-023, VACATING A PORTION OF THE RECORDED PLAT OF KENSINGTON PARK PHASE ONE AND RECORDING THE FINAL PLAT OF KENSINGTON GARDENS - SUBJECT TO LETTER OF CREDIT, AND CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT Item #16B1 - Deleted Item #1682 AUTHORIZATION TO PURCHASE A GRAPPLE TRUCK FROM A STATE CONTRACT WITH TIRE GRANT FUNDS AND APPROVAL OF THE NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENT Item #1683 BID NO. 97-2719 FOR ANNUAL MEDIAN LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE - AWARDED TO COHMERCIAL LAND MAINTENANCE, INC. IN THE TOTAL ANNUAL AMOUNT OF $42,820.00; STREET SWEEPING PORTION OF THE CONTRACT HAS BEEN ELIMINATED FROM THE SUBMITTED BID PROPOSALS Item #1684 CONSENT TO USE EASEMENT AREAS AGREEMENT WITH FLORIDA POWER AND LIGHT COMPANY FOR ELECTRICAL POWER SERVICE TO TEN NEW RAW WATER WELLS FOR THE NCRWTP 8 HGD EXPANSION PROJECT NO. 70859/70828 Item #1685 A_MENDHENT #3 TO GEORGE BOTNER, ASLA AGREEHENT FOR THE DAVIS BOULEVARD LANDSCAPE BEAUTIFICATION PROJECT (60013) - DESIGN CONTRACT IS A LUMP SUM COST OF $10,000.00 PLUS THE COST OF OUT OF POCKET REIHBURSEABLES; ADDITIONAL FOLLOW UP SERVICES SHALL BE ON A TIME AND MATERIAL BASIS; TOTAL COST OF SERVICES SHALL NOT EXCEED $15,000.00 Item #1686 AMENDMENT #1 TO THE STATE REVOLVING FUND LOAN AND ALL NECESSARY BUDGET AMENDMENTS Item #16C1 COLLIER COUNTY PUBLIC LIBRARY'S PARTICIPATION IN THE SOUTHWEST FLORIDA LIBRARY NETWORK (SWFLN) AND AUTHORIZATION TO SIGN THE INSTITUTIONAL MEMBERSHIP AGREEMENT Item #16C2 BUDGET A_MENDHENT RECOGNIZING FUNDS RECEIVED FROHAM INSURANCE CLAIH FOR DAivLAGES CAUSED BY LIGHTNING AT COLLIER NORTH BRANCH LIBRARY - IN THE A_MOUNT OF $2,819.00 Item #16C3 FIRST A_MENDHENT TO LEASE AGREEHENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND STATE OF FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND COLLIER HEALTH SERVICES, INC. Item #16C4 PROPOSED BILL TO BE PRESENTED TO THE LOCAL LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION FOR SUBMISSION TO THE FLORIDA LEGISLATURE TO A_MEND CHAPTER 89-449 LAWS OF FLORIDA, A SPECIAL ACT RELATED TO COLLIER COUNTY PARKS AND SPECIFIED AREAS IHMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO SUCH COUNTY PARKS AUTHOIRZING ACTIVITIES SUCH AS BONFIRES Item #16D1 BID #97-2729 FOR THE ACQUISITION OF DRUGS AND HEDICATIONS USED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES FOR FISCAL YEAR 97/98 - AWARDED TO SUNBELT MEDICAL SUPPLY Item #16D2 CERTIFICATE OF PUBLIC CONVENIENCE AND NECESSITY FOR THE COLLIER COUNTY EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES DEPARTMENT Item #16D3 LEASE AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND NORTH NAPLES FIRE CONTROL AND RESCUE DISTRICT FOR THE SHARED USE OF THE FIRE STATION LOCATED AT 16325 VANDERBILT DRIVE, BONITA SPRINGS, FOR EHS DEPARTMENT OPERATIONS Item #16D4 TERMINATION OF EXISTING AGREEMENT WITH FIRST HEALTH, INC. EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 1998 AND THAT AN AWARD BE MADE TO FLORIDA FIRST, INC., WITH STAFF NEGOTIATING A CONTRACT FOR SERVICE TO BE EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 1998 FOR ADMINISTRATION SERVICES TO THE COUNTY'S GROUP HEALTH INSURANCE PROGRAM Item #16D5 - Deleted Item #16D6 - Deleted Item #16D7 RESOLUTION 97-435, AMENDING COLLIER COUNTY RESOLUTION 95-353 AND THE PURCHASING POLICY Item #16El BUDGET A_MENDHENTS 97-507, 98-025, 98-026, 98-038 AND 98-040 Item #16E2 BUDGET A_MENDHENT APPROPRIATING ADDITIONAL CARRY FORWARD REVENUE IN THE COUNTY-WIDE FACILITIES CAPITAL FUND (301), REVISING PRIOR YEAR APPROPRIATIONS OF ENCUMBRANCES TO REFLECT THE REVISED FUNDING PLAN FOR THE MEDICAL EXA_MINER'S FACILITY, RESULTING IN A NET INCREASE TO THE FUND OF $441,211.00 Item #16G1 SATISFACTIONS OF LIEN FOR SERVICES OF THE PUBIC DEFENDER Item #1662 MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE - FILED AND/OR REFERRED The following miscellaneous correspondence as presented by the Board of County Commissioners has been directed to the various departments as indicated on the miscellaneous correspondence. Item #16H1 ACCEPTANCE OF THE LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT BLOCK GRANTS PROGRAM AWARD FROM THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE Item #16H2 AUTHORIZATION FOR THE USE OF CONFISCATED TRUST FUNDS FOR A DRUG ABUSE EDUCATION AND PREVENTION PROGRAM AND APPROVAL OF FUND 602 BUDGET AMENDMENT Item #16H3 BUDGET AMENDMENT FOR THE USE OF CONFISCATED TRUST FUNDS FOR THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE TO PURCHASE SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT (SWAT VAN) Item #16H4 BUDGET AMENDMENT FOR THE USE OF CONFISCATED TRUST FUNDS FOR THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE TO PURCHASE SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT (A GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEM FOR SURVEILLANCE OPERATIONS) Item #16H5 - Moved to Item #11A Item #16H6 BUDGET AMENDMENT FOR THE STATE OR FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION HIGHWAY SAFETY SUBGRANT #J7-98-06-06-01 IN THE A_MOUNT OF $133,550.00 Item #16J1 BUDGET AMENDMENT INCREASING THE EXPENSE AND REVENUE BUDGET FOR THE OBSTRUCTION REMOVAL PROJECT AT THE IHMOKALEE REGIONAL AIRPORT AND REDUCING RESERVES FOR CONTINGENCY FOR THE ADDITIONAL FUNDS NEEDED TO PROPERLY HATCH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION'S GRANT Item #16J2 BUDGET AMENDMENT WHICH WILL CREATE A BUDGET FOR THE CONTAMINATED SOIL REMOVAL PROJECT AT THE MARCO ISLAND EXECUTIVE AIRPORT Item #16J3 BUDGET AMENDMENT WHICH WILL CREATE A BUDGET FOR THE SCRUB JAY IMPLEMENTATION PROJECT AT THE IHMOKALEE REGIONAL AIRPORT Item #16J4 BUDGET AMENDMENT WHICH WILL CREATE A BUDGET FOR THE OBSTRUCTION REMOVAL PROJECT AT THE EVERGLADES AIRPARK There being no further business for the good of the County· the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 11:55 a.m. BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL ATTEST: DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK TIMOTHY L. HANCOCK, CHAIRMAN These minutes approved by the Board on presented or as corrected · as TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY DEBRA J. DeLAP, NOTARY PUBLIC.