BCC Minutes 05/06/1997 R REGULAR MEETING OF HAY 6, 1997
OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS
LET IT BE REHEHBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners of
Collier County, in and for County of Collier, having conducted
business herein, met on this date at 9 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in
Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the
following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Timothy L. Hancock
Timothy J. Constantine
John C. Norris
Barbara B. Berry
Pamela S. Hac'Kie
STAFF PRESENT:
David C. Weigel, County Attorney
HArjorie Student, Assistant County Attorney
Mike HcNees, Acting County Manager
Thomas W. Olliff, Public Services Administrator
Wayne Arnold, Planning Services Director
Leo Ochs, Jr., Support Services Administator
Steve Camell, Purchasing Director
William D. Lorenz, Natural Resources Director
Dan Croft, St. Risk Management Analyst
Ray Bellows, Project Planner
Vincent Cautero, Comm. Dev. & Env. Set. Administrator
Ed Ilschner, Public Works Administrator
Sue Filson, BCC Administrative Assistant
Item #3
AGENDA AND CONSENT AGENDA - APPROVED AND OR ADOPTED WITH CHANGES
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'd like to call to order the Hay 6, 1997
meeting of the Board of -- Collier County Board of County
Commissioners. This morning it's a pleasure for the invocation to
have Reverend Charles West of the Naples First Church of the Nazarene.
Reverend West, if I could ask you to come to the podium and offer the
invocation this morning and we'll follow that with the Pledge of
Allegiance.
REVEREND WEST: Could we pray together. Father, thank you for
another beautiful day which is a gift that we receive from you. We
thank you for the area of Collier County in which we are privileged to
reside. For all the community members that are here in their great
diversity of resources and gifts and abilities and energies, we give
you thanks. We pray your particular protection upon those who might
have been in harm's way or still are due to last evening's fires.
We'd ask that you'd watch over them and protect them and be with them.
We would ask specifically today that you would grant wisdom and
insight and courage in the administration of the affairs of this
community. We commend it into your care. In the name of Jesus
Christ, we ask it. Amen.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Reverend West, thank you for taking time out
of your schedule to be with us this morning. We appreciate it very
much. Good morning, Mr. HcNees.
MR. HCNEES: Good morning, Chairman, commissioners.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: What do we have in the way of changes today?
MR. HCNEES: Only two from staff this morning. Item 8(B)(1)
that's some recommendations regarding median landscaping of Bonita
Beach Road that we're asking you to continue until Hay the 13th.
That's actually at the request of Commissioner Judah from Lee County.
Neither he nor the key staff person from Lee County were able to be at
the meeting today, so I had told him that you and I would certainly
have no problem with continuing that for a week. They would like to
come down here and work out something with you to help get this
project rolling or keep it rolling, so we are continuing that a week.
The other is an item removed from consent agenda, 16(D)(2), will
become Item 8(D)(2). It's an award of bid for tire purchases. Those
are the only staff changes we have.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Mr. Weigel, any changes?
MR. WEIGEL: None, thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Mac'Kie?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I just wondered if we might have an update
on, and wherever this would be appropriate, an update on when the
candidate for county manager might be coming back to town and the
status on negotiations.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. I had, I had intended under just BCC
communications to convey to you the status and what's gone on to
date --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Super.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- and what to expect.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: That's all I ask.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Norris?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Nothing today.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry?
COHMISSIONER BERRY: Nothing, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: If we could add Item 10(D) which would
be discussion and possible action regarding the forwarding error made
by our staff on the Growth Management Plan.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. We have that as an additional item,
Item 10(D). Other than the mentioned -- the item I mentioned under
BCC communication, I have no changes to the agenda.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion we
approve the agenda and consent agenda as amended.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: Second it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion and a second. All those in
favor, signify by saying aye.
ALL COHMISSIONERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Opposed?
(No response.)
Item #4
MINUTES OF APRIL 8 AND 15, 1997 REGULAR MEETINGS AND APRIL 15, 1997
WORKSHOP - APPROVED AS PRESENTED
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, we're to approval of minutes
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a
motion we approve the minutes of the April 8 and April 15, 1997
regular meeting and our workshop of April 15, 1997.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Second that.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
ALL COMHISSIONERS:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
We have a motion and a second. Any
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Aye.
Opposed?
Seeing none, carries unanimously.
Item #5A1
PROCLAMATION PROCLAIMING HAY 4-10, 1997 AS COLLIER COUNTY TOURISM WEEK
- ADOPTED
Proclamations and service awards this morning. First proclamation is
regarding Collier County Tourism Week and Commissioner Mac'kie.
COMHISSIONER HAC'KIE: I'm looking for John Ayres. There you
are, John. Please do come up. John's going to accept this
proclamation as President of Visit Naples.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Inc.
COMHISSIONER HAC'KIE: Inc.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Nice article in the paper.
COMMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Very nice.
MR. AYRES: This is Joe DeNunzio with the Naples Area
Accommodations Association.
COMHISSIONER HAC'KIE: Wonderful. If you'll face the camera
while I read this, I'd appreciate it.
Whereas, the travel and tourism industry supports the vital
interest of Collier County, contributing to our employment, economic
prosperity, peace, understanding and goodwill; and
Whereas, travel and tourism ranks as one of Collier County's
largest industries in terms of revenues generated; and
Whereas, an approximately three million travelers visiting
Collier County contributed 27.53 percent of the annual taxable sales
to the economy in 1996; and
Whereas, those travelers provided jobs for approximately
twenty-two thousand citizens in Collier County; and
Whereas, travel and tourism provides employment for more people
than any other industry; and
Whereas, given these laudable contributions to the economic,
social and cultural well-being of the citizens of Collier County, it
is fitting that we recognize the importance of travel and tourism.
Now therefore be it proclaimed by the Board of County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, that the week of May 4
through 10, 1997 be designated as Collier County Tourism Week.
Done and ordered this 6th day of May, 1997, Board of County
Commissioners.
I'd like to move we accept this proclamation.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion and a couple of seconds. All
those in favor, signify by saying aye.
ALL COHMISSIONERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Ayres.
MR. AYRES: Thank you very much.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: If you'd like to say something, feel free.
MR. AYRES: Well, if we had anything to say, it would probably be
too touristy, but nonetheless, we do appreciate it very much. We've,
we've all been, through the TDC and through your efforts, wrestling
with this monster of tourism dollars and how to spend them
appropriately and it's just, it's very fitting today that, that we
would receive these proclamations and unanimous support and we always
knew somehow we could, we could get together on this thing and make
the right decisions and it's very comforting that, that we're at that
point today. We thank you very much.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Thank you.
Item #5A2
PROCLAMATION PROCLAIMING THE MONTH OF HAY, 1997 AS MOTORCYCLE SAFETY
AND AWARENESS MONTH - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Ayres, thank you. Our next proclamation
this morning is designating the month of May 1997 as motorcycle safety
and awareness month. Commissioner Constantine.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Do we have Jim Morris here from the --
I want to --
MR. MORRIS: I have Mr. Murphy with me. He is my safety officer.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And Mr. Murphy as well. If you'll
both turn around and face the TV lens, we'll read the following
proclamation.
Whereas, motorcycles are increasingly being used as a regular
means of transportation due to the current need to conserve fuel and
our state's favorable climate for this mode of transportation and
they're a darn lot of fun; and
Whereas, the motorcycle is an energy efficient vehicle and
reduces fuel consumption, traffic, and parking congestion; and
Whereas, the motorcycle has proved to be an important form of
transportation for commuting, as well as touring, and recreation both
on and off the roads; and
Whereas, as a matter of safety, it's necessary to develop skills
and an awareness of proper driving habits to handle these vehicles on
the highways of our state.
Now therefore be it proclaimed by the Board of County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida that the month of Hay 1997 be
designated as motorcycle safety and awareness month in recognition of
the need for a greater public awareness of the motorcycle and its
proper use on our highways.
Done and ordered this 6th day of Hay, 1997, BCC, Timothy L.
Hancock, Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion we approve this
proclamation.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. All those in favor,
signify by saying aye.
ALL COHMISSIONERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Gentlemen.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: By the way, Jan and I are celebrating
motorcycle safety and awareness month by taking a course on Friday
this month.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: Well, I'm one step ahead of you,
Commissioner. I'm already certified currently.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I was years ago before getting mowed
down by an oil truck, so this is a refresher course.
MR. MORRIS: I hope those are all on Gold Wings, right?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Yeah, they hope so, too.
MR. MORRIS: The Collier County Gold Wing Chapter appreciates you
having this proclamation. As you know, the governor also signed for
the State of Florida. This is the third year straight for the State
of Florida and all the motorcyclists in the county really appreciate
it. Thank you very much.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Appreciate you being here.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I wasn't aware we had a biker board.
Commissioner Berry, Commissioner Constantine and I share a
commonality, surprise, we both got mowed down on motorcycles when we
were in our teens, so spent some quality time in the hospital.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: You've either been down or you're
going down on a motorcycle.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Or you're not on one.
Item #5A3
PROCLAivLATION PROCLAIMING HAY 6, 1997 AS FAMILY AND COHMUNITY EDUCATOR
APPRECIATION WEEK IN COLLIER COUNTY - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: 5(A)(3), proclamation for Family and Community
Educator Appreciation Week. Commissioner Berry.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Yes, sir. It's a pleasure this morning to
be able to read this proclamation. Could I have Doris Wolf from the
Florida -- or I'm sorry, the Family and Community Education Group in
Immokalee. She's also president, I believe, of that particular group.
Jo Selvia, is Jo here this morning? She's president of the Island,
okay. Ann Hoskins, county council FCE secretary and president of the
Henderson Creek Club; Ruth Conroy, county council FCE treasurer and
representing the North Naples Group; and Jean Dunn, president of the
Golden Gate FCE Club.
The proclamation reads, whereas, family and community educator
volunteers are an integral part of Collier County government; and
Whereas, the Collier County FCE program offers opportunities for
citizens who wish to volunteer in a variety of different ways such as
sharing educational information with adults and youth; and
Whereas, during the past five years, the FCE organization has
donated in excess of twelve thousand hours to the Cooperative
Extension Service and the community; and
Whereas, family and community educators support such worthwhile
efforts as the 4-H Youth Development Program and the Collier County
Agricultural Fair; and
Whereas, without family and community educators, the quality of
service to Collier County residents and their children would be
greatly reduced.
Now therefore be it proclaimed by the Board of County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, that gratitude and
appreciation is extended to all the family and community educator
volunteers who give of their time and energies to Collier County
government. We, the Board of Collier County Commissioners, do affirm
our commitment to the Family and Community Educator Program and value
our partnership with the University of Florida Cooperative Extension
Service in honoring these citizens who have given so much to Collier
County and therefore proclaim May 4 through the 10th, 1997 as Family
and Community Educator Appreciation Week in Collier County.
Done and ordered this 6th day of May, 1997, signed by Timothy L.
Hancock, Chairman.
I would, Mr. Chairman, like to move this proclamation, please.
COMHISSIONER HAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion and second. All those in
favor, signify by saying aye.
ALL COMHISSIONERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Also, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to present at
this time a plaque to I believe it's Jean Dunn from the Golden Gate
FCE Club. This is the group which has apparently done some
outstanding work and we would like to present this plaque to you,
Jean.
MS. DUNN: Thank you.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: Doris, if you'd like to say something, you
may step over to the podium, Ruth --
MS. DUNN: We're going to let her say it.
COHHISSIONER BERRY: Okay, then. Okay. Ann Hoskins, I'm sorry,
thank you. Jean, okay, and it's Cephus Grief, do you know her,
Cephus?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: That'll be next.
CHAIRMAN NORRIS: That's the next one.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: I'm sorry. How did I get this? Okay.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Five more years, you'll have this down pat.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: I'll get this down.
MS. WOLF: Thank you. My name is Doris Wolf and I am president
of the County Council Family and Community Educators and also
president of my local club. Thank you for taking a few minutes of
your busy time today to honor us. We really enjoy as much as we
receive. Some of the projects that we work on and one that Jean
Dunn's club is especially interested in is the Abused Shelter for
Women of Collier County. This year they have donated around two
thousand dollars in material things and money and, of course, our
first love, the 4-H Clubs of Collier County. One of the mothers said
that if it wasn't for the Family and Community Educators, there
wouldn't be any 4-H Clubs in Collier County. I'm sure this is just a
stretch of the imagination, but we feel like that the things that we
do are a help to the club. We feel like that our future leaders, many
will come from our 4-H Clubs. Some of the things that we do is, of
course, the Collier County Fair and other things we do with the -- and
we do the county events and then we help with many of the fund-raising
projects of the 4-H thing. Thank you again for your time.
Item #5A4
PROCLAMATION PROCLAIMING MAY 4-10, 1997 AS FINANCIAL COUNSELOR
APPRECIATION WEEK - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you very much. Our next proclamation is
for Financial Counselor Appreciation Week. Commissioner Norris.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes. Could we ask Tab Grief to come
forward, please.
MR. GRIER: Hi there.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Welcome, Mr. Grief. I'll read the
proclamation for you here.
Whereas, financial counselor volunteers are an integral part of
the Collier County government; and
Whereas, the Collier County Financial Counselor Program offers
opportunities for citizens who wish to offer their time and talents to
help families and individuals become competent county managers --
sorry. I'm jumping ahead to the next item. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Don't do that.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: To become competent money managers; and
Whereas, financial counselors play a critical role in the success
of the extension's home loan program by offering home buyers
educational training to home loan applicants; and
Whereas, this home buyers' training emphasizes the financial
obligations of a new homeowner, thus, helping to safeguard over five
million dollars in home loans from foreclosures; and
Whereas, financial counselors also offer one on one credit
counseling to persons who would like to qualify for the home loan
program; and
Whereas, without the volunteer services of financial counselors,
the quality of service to Collier County residents would be greatly
reduced.
Now therefore be it proclaimed by the Board of County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, that gratitude and
appreciation is extended to all the financial counselor volunteers who
give of their time and energies to Collier County government. We, the
Board of Collier County Commissioners, do affirm our commitment to the
financial counselor program and value our partnership with the
University of Florida Cooperative Extension Service in honoring these
citizens who have given so much to Collier County, and therefore
proclaim May 4 to the 10th, 1997 as Financial Counselor Appreciation
Week in Collier County.
Done and ordered this 6th day of May, 1997.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to move that we accept this
proclamation.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion and a second. All those in
favor, signify by saying aye.
ALL COMHISSIONERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Congratulations, Mr. Grief. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: And if you'd like to say a few words,
please use our podium and there's a personal certificate for you as
well as a proclamation.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thank you.
MR. GRIER: Asking a sales manager would he like to say a few
words, that's interesting. Good morning. I'm Tab Grief. I recently
retired and I moved to Collier County approximately nineteen months
ago. I was a region sales manager with General Electric and RCA for
the past thirty-two years, so I've moved around quite a lot and I've
looked at the area and this is where I decided to make my home. Very
brief background, wherever I have lived and whatever community I've
lived in in raising my children, I have been an active part of that
community and I saw some needs here, so without going too much into
that, I would like to take this opportunity on behalf of all of the
financial counselors to thank you very much for the honor that you
have bestowed upon us. As being a financial counselor working under
the very capable leadership of Jan Bennett and Denise Blanton, we
serve, I think, a very serious position in the community where we give
of our time and our efforts to help develop the people within the
community, so I believe it is a very important function and I'm very
happy to be a part of that.
Very briefly, I would like to update you on the home loan program
which started in March 1997 which is now nine months in its operation.
The total amount in the loans committed is now 7.4 million dollars.
The number of loans are a hundred and one. The total -- the average
loan amount is seventy-three thousand five hundred dollars. The total
purchase is 7.9 million. This represents approximately seventy-nine
thousand eight hundred dollars in taxes for the county and, again,
this is the importance of the type of work that we're doing, getting
out to the people, helping them to achieve financial stability and get
into their own homes, so as you can see, this program is certainly
working.
In closing, I would like to thank the board for their continued
support of the financial counselors and the Corporate Extension
Services of Collier County. Again, thank you very much. Have a good
day.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. It's worthwhile to note that Mr.
Grief and the other volunteers in financial counseling have helped
this community reach one of the board's goals which was priority of
ownership over --
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- short-term rentals and we thank you and all
the other volunteers in that same respect. To service awards this
morning, we have three. Our first one this morning for fifteen years
of service is to Miss Marilyn Matthes. See, you're halfway there,
Marilyn.
MS. MATTHES: Thank you.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Good job.
Item #5B
EHPLOYEE SERVICE AWARDS - PRESENTED
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Second, we have Miss Cheryl Soter from
Building Review and Permitting for ten year's service. Thank you.
MS. SOTER: Thank you so much.
Item #5C
JESSE KOHORNY, WATER DEPARTMENT, PUBLIC WORKS DIVISION - RECOGNIZED AS
EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH FOR HAY, 1997
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have Joseph Collins, Department of Revenue,
ten years. Thank you. This morning, I have the pleasure, as each
chairman does once a month, to recognize an individual county employee
for their effort, in recognizing Jesse Komorny of our Water Department
as employee of the month for Hay of 1997. Jesse, where are you out
there? There you are. Come on up, Jesse, so we can sufficiently
embarrass you. Stand here to my left and face the camera. I'd like
to read a letter from the board. Dear Mr. Komorny, it is indeed a
pleasure for us to announce your selection as Collier County's
employee of the month for Hay 1997. This well deserved recognition is
for your valuable contributions to the county through your work in the
Water Department. This honor includes an exceptional performance
plaque as well as a fifty dollar cash award which I am proud to
present to you. On behalf of the Board of Commissioners, I offer our
sincere congratulations and also our gratitude for your dependability
and dedication.
Jesse, this is a plaque for you to hang in prominent display for
all to see and, of course, a fifty dollar check that you won't want to
hang in any prominent display. I'll give you the letter and, Jesse,
congratulations and thank you. Some day I'm going to figure out how,
out of all the employees we have, we come up with one a month. That's
got to be a dogfight among the department managers.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: It can be.
Item #7A
DOUGLAS A. WOOD, SIESKY, PILON & WOOD RE ORDINANCE 96-18, NO WAKE ZONE
FOR CLAIM BAY - NO ACTION
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Next under public petitions, Item
7(A). We have Douglas Wood from Siesky, Pilon & Wood. I'd like to
remind the two petitions this morning that petitioners are given
approximately ten minutes for their presentation. The board does not
take action specifically on public petitions but may direct our staff
to bring the item back under a regularly scheduled agenda.
Good morning, Mr. Wood.
MR. WOOD: Good morning, commissioner, good morning,
commissioners. My name is Doug Wood. I'm an attorney with Siesky,
Pilon & Wood. I'm here on behalf of Terry and Pay Brzeski who are
residents of Seahorse Avenue in the Seagate Subdivision.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Wood, could you pull the microphone
down a little bit?
MR. WOOD: Oh, okay. Is that better?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Yeah. I think that'll do it.
MR. WOOD: I have a copy of the transcript of the minutes from
the last that I'd like to pass to the commissioners. This is the --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: That may have been --
MR. WOOD: -- transcript --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: That may have been made a part of our record,
I believe.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: It's in our packet.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: It's the same as what you submitted.
MR. WOOD: Okay. Is it part of the record?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yes, we do. I have it.
MR. WOOD: Okay. As you may recall, approximately a year ago, I
was here on behalf, in front of the board on behalf of Mr. and Mrs.
Brzeski at that time when the board was considering adopting and did,
in fact, adopt Ordinance 96-16 which approved the no wake zone in the
Clam Bay system. Our main concerns were at that time was that if you
adopted the no wake zone in the Clam Bay system, it essentially would
give -- take away my clients and the other residents of Seagate who
lived along Clam Bay the right to use their boats and their
watercraft. The reason being is there is no access to the gulf
through the Clam Bay system.
At that time, Commissioner Constantine had asked Mr. Dugan if
there was access to the gulf and it was represented to the board that
there was a dredge permit in place, that they were dredging the Clam
Pass and that there would be access within a couple of weeks. Since
that time, I've spoken with a number of people from staff, Harry Huber
of Capital Projects, Ken Humiston, the project engineer, Vince Cautero
and Bill Lorenz, the natural resources director. That dredge permit
was never meant for the purposes of making the pass navigable for
boats, vessels, watercraft.
It was simply for the, for water circulation purposes. In fact,
at this time, that pass is very narrow, and depending upon the tides,
you know, it's as shallow as six inches to a foot in depth. It's just
not safe for boats or any type of watercraft to have access to the
gulf, so now my clients along with the other residents of Clam Bay are
forced with, yeah, they can use their, their personal watercrafts and
their vessels in Clam Bay but only at no wake and I think the
commission will recognize that people who buy boats or personal
watercrafts want the ability to be able to use them, drive them more
than a no wake and so right now since there's no access to the gulf,
they're forced, even though they spent large amounts of dollars to
live on the water, and in my clients' case, was able to use her
watercrafts and her boats for sixteen years, now she's forced with the
situation where she's got to trailer her boat and watercraft and put
it in the water somewhere else if she wants to use it.
What we would like is for the Commission to send this back to
staff to re-evaluate and take into consideration not only the, I
guess, the environmental interests in Clam Bay because we recognize
that's a legitimate interest, but also take into consideration if this
isn't a navigable pass, one that you may not have the environmental
concerns with the manatees that was originally thought to, you may
have had, and two, if you take into consideration the other property
owners who live along Clam Bay, I think maybe there's a better
compromise there. Rather than a wholesale no wake zone in Clam Bay
system, maybe we can do something where we have the no wake zone in
certain areas, certain locations in Clam Bay system or certain, during
certain periods of the day.
I think the Commission should also recognize and I think staff
will recognize, talking to Mr. Cautero and Mr. Lorenz, that you're not
going to have a lot of boat traffic in Clam Bay. There's no dock
facilities in there and I don't think there's going to be any since
there's no access to the gulf. You don't have people coming into Clam
Bay from the gulf. Really, the only people using the Clam Bay system
are the people that live there on Clam Bay. The boat traffic's not
going to be significant, but I think if you take into consideration
the other property owners and their rights to use their watercraft in
an enjoyable manner, the better solution might be to either limit the
location or the time for the no wake zone.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Wood. Commissioner Norris?
MR. WOOD: And I apologize. My client was going to be here to
address you as well today, but -- oh, as a matter of fact, here she
is.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Under, under public petition, you're afforded
a time frame and --
MR. WOOD: It's ten minutes total, isn't it?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Correct, but it's typically a single
presentation, rather than having someone count and five people giving
two minutes each. I -- we appreciate that your client is here, but we
assume that you're either speaking for them or they would be here
themselves to speak.
MR. WOOD: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I have a question for Mr. Dugan and while
he's coming up, Mr. Wood, aren't these the same arguments that you
used in the original public hearing?
MR. WOOD: Yes, except for, Commissioner, at the original public
hearing, I wasn't -- I -- my client had called me the day before the
hearing. I wasn't even aware at that time that, you know, the county
was obtaining a dredge permit to dredge the channel and based upon
what was said at that time, I think it was my understanding, along
with the Commission's understanding, that when the channel was
dredged, the residents of Clam Bay were going to have access with
their boats to the gulf.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. Mr. Dugan, is this an idle speed
zone or a no wake zone?
MR. DUGAN: Kevin Dugan, Natural Resources Department. The Clam
Bay system is posted as idle speed, no wake.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. And so that means that they, they
can't move along fast at all, right? MR. DUGAN: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That means that they just have to --
there's a different designation where you can run a little faster as
long as you're not -- that's a slow speed, no wake?
MR. DUGAN: It would be slow speed, minimum wake, correct.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Minimum wake, okay, but this is an idle
speed, no wake?
MR. DUGAN: (Nodding head.)
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is there, in fact, no access to the gulf?
MR. DUGAN: There is access to the gulf. Mr. Wood is correct
when he said it was not for navigational purposes. The Clam Bay
system is under a conservation easement that does not allow dredging
for navigable purposes. However, there was a project that was just
completed within the last few weeks that reopened the Clam Bay system.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And at low tide, there is just one foot of
water?
MR. DUGAN: Probably in some areas back up inside the bay but not
within the pass itself. I was up there yesterday, as a matter of
fact, to walk through to see just how deep the water was. Back up
between where the bridge is and where the pass is, there was an area
that was, was quite shallow. In fact, I met a canoeist up there that,
you know, he had to get out and push his boat through, but I might
also add that, you know, when I spoke with the canoeist, he was, he
was concerned a year ago before the ordinance went into effect that he
almost had the bow of his canoe taken off by a personal watercraft.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I'm, I'm aware that some people are
unsafe and, you know, that's a different issue to me from whether,
from the -- whether or not people should have access. I know that
we're looking back over these minutes. Both Commissioner Constantine
and I were under the impression that even though I understand this is
not a navigation pass, it's not maintained for that purpose, but we
had expected that within a week of the, within a week of the hearing,
there would be access to the gulf again as a result of the -- as a
result of the dredging.
I think it, I think it is an important issue that people who live
in Seagate have, you know, some right to use the waterfront property
that they, that they bought, so it's critical to me again to
understand what is the nature of their access to the gulf, so can you
tell me, if you were in a personal watercraft during, you know -- what
percentage of time would you have access to the gulf?
MR. DUGAN: Probably ninety-nine point nine percent of the time.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: These things run in eight inches of water.
MR. DUGAN: Right.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah, I know they do and that's, that's
really my bottom line. I understand you're not going to be able to,
you know, your client won't be able to zip around in the, in the
canals around Seagate, but if you still have some reasonable access to
the gulf, that seems to me to be a fair balance. You might want to
talk to your client because she's shaking her head that you don't have
any access.
MR. WOOD: Well, if I may, one thing I want the commissioners to
consider is, as Commissioner Hancock pointed out, yeah, maybe Seadoos
can run in eight inches of water. I don't think that's the ideal
condition to run Seadoos in. That's still, in my opinion, I think if
you have staff investigate it, that's not a, not a safe condition to
have Seadoos running through eight feet of water -- eight inches of
water and, and that doesn't take into consideration boats. You can't
run, unless it's a small flat boat, you can't run a boat through eight
inches of water.
I don't think that's a safe condition and I think the residents
of Seagate, as Commissioner Mac'Kie pointed out, have the right to use
the water and use it in an enjoyable manner. They paid a lot of money
to live on the water. They shouldn't be forced to operate either
their boats or their personal watercrafts through what may be
dangerous conditions in order to try to get out to the Gulf of Mexico.
If there isn't safe conditions for them to navigate out to the Gulf of
Mexico, they ought to be able to use their craft in Clam Bay, you
know, under some conditions.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Wood, you know, you're here as an advocate
for your client and I fully appreciate that. However, what we're
dealing with here is not the elimination of the use of a waterbody.
What we're talking about is a balance between some environmental
interests and the indiscriminate use of personal watercraft. Prior to
this no wake zone being implemented, I had two experiences in the Clam
Bay system much like the individual Mr. Dugan spoke to. I had
Representative Livingston in a canoe trying to show him the pass when
we were coming around a mangrove bin and almost had the front of our
canoe taken off by someone who was operating at unsafe speed with a
personal watercraft.
The second thing I feel that was a question from, question from
Representative Livingston on the scarring of the seagrass beds. Why
were these swaths in a foot of water cut through a seagrass bed
eliminating the seagrass? The answer is personal watercraft. I don't
disagree that there may be a way in which they can be used in a safe
manner back there and in a compatible manner. However, that requires
being sensitive to what is around you and the typical use of personal
watercraft does not take that into consideration. They're running in
a foot of water or were running in a foot of water back there
consistently, enough to chew up seagrass beds.
There's an enforcement difficulty. When we get too specific
on the speed zone, the sheriff's office has no way to get a boat in
there, so the enforcement is almost nonexistent. If there is a middle
ground, I'm all ears, but the problem is that just opening it up to
use, you say that it's unsafe to run it in a foot of water or less.
Well, that would disallow the majority of the Clam Bay system at low
tide. That would disallow access beyond the position of the pass if
you're going northward because that area at low tide is about a foot.
Now, two things are happening. One is that when the pass closes
up, we have continually reopened it to maintain a flow of water into
the system. The second thing is that the permit has been submitted
that would allow for a ten year permit that would not just open the
pass but open up a channel into the, to the pass that makes a
southerly turn towards Seagate. Are you aware of that plan and its
submission?
MR. WOOD: No, I'm not.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. My problem is that by removing this,
the no wake zone during the day, what we're doing is we're opening up
those seabed areas once again to the damage that was being incurred
initially, and the seabeds aren't just for manatees. I mean they're,
they're basically beds for trout, you know. It's kind of an area in
which small fishery can exist.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Sort of an incubator.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: A little bit, so I, you know -- again, I'm
trying to balance the interest of that's one of our indicators. When
we're looking at whether the Clam Bay system's getting healthy or
dying, the seagrass bed's one of the first indicators you look at and
if they're being torn up by use, we've got a conflict and I'm not sure
how to answer the conflict and we answered it pretty definitively the
first time.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, our only question really
this morning is whether or not we want to bring this back as a full
blown hearing on it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Agreed. I'm just trying to give as
comprehensive an approach to this as possible. My feeling --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I can tell you're going toward a no.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Well, I'm, I'm going there for the simple
reason that the ten year permit is far more extensive than what has
been done to date and the conditions within that pass, if that permit
is issued, will improve access to the gulf beyond what is currently
there. I've run, I've run personal watercraft, and at slow speed,
they don't draw more than a foot.
There are places all over the county that boaters cannot access
at low tide and that's just a, that's a sea condition, so I don't see
enough here to bring it back to lift the no wake zone in Clam Bay, not
at this point. If we fail in getting the permit, we may have to
revisit this, but not at this point.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: In view of the proposed permitting project
and the fact that I don't see anything different from the first time
we heard it, I don't, I don't think I have any interest in bringing it
back at this point, either.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just have a factual question and I'm
going to have to rely on Mr. Dugan to -- who's telling me that
ninety-nine point nine percent of the time there's access to the gulf,
and if that's the case, then I don't think we're, we're harming
anybody. If, if that proves not to be the case, then that's, that's a
problem and, you know, we talk about diminishing people's property
values if we aren't, if we're taking away their right to use the
water, so, so based on it, based on there being ninety-nine point nine
percent of the time access to the gulf, I'm satisfied that that's
reasonable.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry?
COMHISSIONER BERRY: No comment. I'm just listening.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Sounds like you've got three.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Mr. Wood, thank you for your petition.
I assume you and your client will be monitoring this and our staff can
probably give you the information on that permit if you'd, if you'd
like it to provide to your client.
MR. WOOD: Thank you, Commissioner.
Item #7B
FREDRICK PAULY REGARDING BRENTWOOD PUD REQUESTING ZONING EXTENSION - NO
ACTION
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Next item, Public Petition 7(B),
Frederick Pauly regarding Brentwood PUD. Mr. Pauly has a
representative here, Mr. Dwayne.
MR. DWAYNE: Good morning. For the record, Bob Dwayne from
Hole-Montes & Associates representing Mr. Pauly, and we're here
requesting a reconsideration of prior board action which required the
Brentwood PUD to come back before you in the form of a PUD amendment.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Mulhere or Mr. Arnold, I'm going to have a
procedural question on this at the conclusion of the presentation.
MR. DWAYNE: There are two items that, that I may shed some light
on your prior discussion on November 19th. The first goes to the PUD
Master Plan. As you can see in the area outlined in yellow, tract one
is the only tract that permits retail uses in this planned unit
development. One of those uses which was a representative list of
neighborhood type units uses was a liquor store. The board had some
concern with that.
They also had some concern with the potential for on-site
consumption of alcohol. I've tried to address both those points in my
letter. With regard to the on-site consumption of alcohol, they would
require approval before this board because they're less than five
hundred feet from the property located immediately to the east which
is developed with a church. There's a separation of approximately
three hundred feet between tract one and the property line on the east
side of the canal. We think that's an ample separation, particularly
when you take into consideration the other kinds of office commerce
related uses which are permitted between tract one and the adjacent
property and we just wanted you to be aware of that, and our request,
again, is to have you reconsider the staff's initial recommendation
which was the two year extension and I hope that that adds some
clarification regarding the liquor store and the on-site consumption.
Other issues that were discussed in your attached minutes was the
architectural standards.
My understanding is that whether we amend this PU -- PUD or not,
those architectural standards, as well as the landscaping standards
that have, which have been adopted since this PUD was approved in the
late 1980s will still apply, so we, we believe there's ample
safeguards attached to the existing ordinances to address any future
concerns that you may have
with the development of this property and I'd be happy to answer any
questions you might have, commissioners.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. My question is for either Mr. Arnold or
Mr. Hulhere, whichever is appropriate. First of all, the -- Mr.
HcNees, did this request meet the proper timing for reconsideration?
MR. HCNEES: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Mr. Arnold, as I read back to this,
there were two main concerns we brought and I, I really brought, you
know, the two of them up myself. It sounds like the liquor store
wasn't as much a problem as an associated lounge. Is what Mr.
Dwayne's saying correct, that if they were to put any type of a
cocktail lounge or liquor service there other than retail sale of
alcohol, that they'd be required to come back before the board due to
the location of the church?
MR. ARNOLD: There is a five hundred foot separation requirement
currently in our Land Development Code which they would have to meet.
Whether or not every parcel on that project is within five hundred
feet of the church, I'm not certain, but.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. According to you, Mr. Dwayne, only one
parcel is eligible?
MR. DWAYNE: Yeah. The only one is that tract one that would
permit retail uses and it's approximately three hundred feet. The
board has the right to waive that distance if there's a separation of
a barrier such as a canal, which we have, but it would require your
approval.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The second element was not just architectural
standards as they apply today, but the internal architectural
standards that we require now. If you're going to go in and do kind
of a pieced development, we would, we generally ask that you make it
all integrated architecturally so it doesn't look like a hodgepodge
like some of the older PUDs have, have developed out. If that were
the only outstanding issue, is that an insubstantial change as far as
addition and would it allow the amendment of the PUD without
significant other efforts by just adding that?
MR. ARNOLD: Well, I think certainly when this came before the
county commission in the first hearing, it was contemplated that we
were going to come back and see not only the lounge/liquor store
modification, landscape modification, some language to address
architectural compatibility, but much as the board decided on the
Hocake PUD located adjacent to this one, you're going to see some
consistency hopefully within that interchange activity center in terms
of uses and this was an opportunity in the amendment process that was
mandated. Related to the architectural standards, that was one thing
you also addressed at Hocake was the issue of mini warehouse storage
and, and whether or not that was a consistent use but also the issue
of internal architectural compatibility and that's something that was
addressed in the Brentwood PUD as well.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So that there is a baseline of consistency
there in requesting these interchange activity center parcels come
back?
MR. ARNOLD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Questions for Mr. Dwayne or Mr. Arnold?
MR. HCNEES: Commissioner, I believe Hiss Student has some
concerns about if you're going to do this actually under the
reconsideration ordinance, whether there's, whether this request is
timely.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Hiss Student?
MS. STUDENT: For the record, Harjorie Student, assistant county
attorney. If this is a reconsideration as set forth in our regular
Collier County code, it does not meet the requirements for that type
of reconsideration either under the general section or the land use
section, but just as a public petition, coming back to you and using
the term reconsideration loosely, then I, you know, think it's
appropriate for the petitioner to come back and make whatever
arguments he wishes to make, but it would not meet our reconsideration
procedures under either heading of land use or general under our code
because there's a fifteen day requirement that a letter be sent to the
county manager, and if I understand correctly, this was heard in
November and, obviously, I think the county manager received a letter
in April. Is that not correct? So, obviously, it's been longer than
fifteen days under the strict reconsideration procedure we have.
MR. DWAYNE: We understand that, Commissioner, that it would
require another public hearing for you to take action. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, I appreciate the presentation by Mr.
Dwayne and all. It seems to me, though, that if we have a
reconsideration ordinance to establish a time line on when we can
rehear some item, then that, the purpose of that is to basically
establish that time line. To allow someone to come up under a public
petition and escape the, the time set forth for a reason in our Land
Development Code I don't think is appropriate. I'm not supportive of
doing it this way. I have a procedural concern about it as well.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Hac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I have some procedural hesitation about
opening up a floodgate here, but this one, with all due respect to
staff, I think, has one distinguishing characteristic and that is that
we didn't know about the five hundred foot issue when we were
discussing this. I didn't know that this was in, within five hundred
feet of a church and, therefore, that I didn't need to worry about
on-site, you know, service of alcohol, consumption on the premises. I
didn't realize at the time that, that the board would have to approve
something in order for that one, you know, one issue that we were the
most concerned about to come forward, to come to fruition. Not having
been advised of that by staff, I think that makes this one a little
different.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Except that if I read the minutes correctly,
you weren't concerned about the liquor store but the internal
compatibility for architecture.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, and frankly, when this comes --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I just, I just remember reading that. That's
the only reason I say that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And it's true, and if this comes back for
a hearing, I'm going to be asking them if they would voluntarily do
that because I do still have that architectural concern.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Any other questions for the petitioner?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No. Just a couple of comments.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: One, I agree with Commissioner Norris
on timing and, two, I think it's the petitioner's responsibility, if
they fail to bring those items up during the first public hearing,
that's their responsibility. That's the reason for having the public
hearing.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Commissioner Berry, any additional?
COMHISSIONER BERRY: I was just looking for consistency between
this one and the neighboring one of Mocake and I had asked staff what,
what the consistency was because I think didn't we ask them to do
something a little bit differently and so I think we need to, to stay
consistent.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yes, we did. In, in light of the, the
upcoming look at interchange activity centers all together that we're
doing and the, the problem with, with a reconsideration, I find that
we would be stretching a little bit to authorize a reconsideration on
that decision, so I'm going to agree with Commissioners Norris and
Constantine and not ask for the staff to bring this back. Any further
discussion on this item?
Item #10C
COUNTY EMPLOYEE TUITION REIMBURSEMENT BENEFITS FOR HIGHER EDUCATION -
STAFF TO PREPARE AND PRESENT POLICY FOR CONSIDERATION
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, before we move on, can I
ask --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: No.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- your indulgence and the board's
indulgence? Dr. Roy McTarnigan, President of the university, is here.
He's here for Item 10(C) which is our next to last item and I
wondered, I know we try to keep our agenda in order, but as a courtesy
to him, I wonder if we might take that up front.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I was wondering why I saw Roy out there and I
thought it was for the education. I couldn't figure out what he was
here for. Does the board have any objection to hearing Item 10(C) at
this time?
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: None.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: None? Mr. McTarnigan, if I could ask you to
come to the podium. Commissioner Constantine, this was an add-on that
you requested, I believe?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Sure. It's not an add-on --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'm sorry.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- but it's a, y'all may recall about
three years ago we discontinued the employee tuition program at the
time Mr. Damarask was -- we had a management level approval for
whatever people wanted to take. The, the intent was if people wanted
to improve themselves within their field, that was fine, and I think
the course of study that had been taken by one employee was deviant
sexual behavior and we had a little trouble figuring out how that
helped out a librarian, but, and that led to us stripping away that
program. Mr. HcNees and I have had some discussions, and particularly
with the new university opening up, we wondered if we put some
stricter controls in making sure that the courses taken were actually,
A, completed before we reimbursed for tuition and, B, actually had
direct benefit to the position our employees were in, if it might not
be worth reinstating that type of program. Mr. HcNees has some
details.
MR. HCNEES: What we would propose to do, we took the policy
under which you formerly granted tuition reimbursements and made some
edits to it. The basic change would be a course that has no
relationship to your county employment and is not required for an
approved degree program, we would not reimburse. The courses that
are, that are not job related but are mandated or are requirements of
an approved degree program, you would reimburse and that's a slight
change from the way the policy was. Where on the way up, I have
copies for you of the proposed policy and the former policy so you can
compare the two.
This was a case where we had a couple of courses that were kind
of out there in left field that, that employees took and got
reimbursed for and essentially we threw the baby out with the bath
water and for -- we spent maybe eight or nine thousand dollars a year
for this program. The, the morale benefit and the staff development
benefit was far in excess of the cost and what I would be proposing
would be eliminating a position in the county manager's office in the
proposed budget one of the assistant county manager's positions as a
way of not only funding this program and use that money for staff
development and that would be about a third of that money and the rest
of that would just be savings, so we don't want to propose this as
it's going to cost you money. We're willing to take the pain in the
manager's office as a way to, to provide the staff development for the
rest of the staff.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And the idea is to kind of tighten it
down and make sure it actually has direct benefit to the county and
the role individuals play working for us and Dr. HcTarnigan can tell
us some of the specific areas that might apply.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Morning, Dr. HcTarnigan.
DR. HCTARNIGAN: Good morning, commissioners. For the record,
Roy HcTarnigan, Florida Gulf Coast University. I appreciate your
support. I appreciate especially the conversations Commissioner
Constantine and I have had about our university service to the
community and especially to county staff.
We will open August 25, about twenty-five hundred students and I
hope our growth plan in the next five years will bring it up to close
to six thousand, so we're looking forward in areas such as business
administration, an HPA program, Master in Public Administration,
master of social work as examples, some of these specialized programs
that I think would fit very neatly with some of your needs and some of
your employees' needs.
One good way to make this a partnership that works is to sit down
in advance to let both our staffs talk with each other about the kind
of services you need and to approve in advance the kind of courses or
programs that will fit the bill. Also, as Commissioner Constantine
and I have talked this over, we would like very much to look at some
telecommunications, audio and video distance learning opportunities
through compressed video or Internet services where people can access
information and materials at their own time and place and we will be
working closely with Edison Community College to offer some formal
courses at the Lely campus, but I hope that through your county
offices, there may also be an opportunity sometimes for small seminars
by use of compressed video or you can use a PC and a video screen at
the same time and actually hold a small seminar without getting on the
road and burning up the miles back and forth, so I look at this as an
opportunity for us as a university to serve you and your employees and
I would pledge to work closely in the planning process to make sure
the courses and programs meet both our objectives.
MR. MCNEES: Mr. Chairman, I'd throw one more detail in there. I
sit on the advisory committee for the development of the new MPA
program, Master in Public Administration. In our first meeting, what
was emphasized by the Florida Gulf Coast staff, they wanted to know
from us who were working in the field what skills do we want employees
that come out of their program to have and they're giving us an
opportunity to tell them how we want our people to be trained by them
and it's, it's a great opportunity for us to have input on both ends
and to have something to say about what we want MPA graduates to look
like so that we can put them to work, so we feel like this is a great
opportunity for us to get on board all the way around and at the same
time provide the development and the morale opportunities for our own
people.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Norris.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Glad to see you down here, Mr. -- Dr.
McTarnigan. In the original discussion of this, I recall that the
objection was made on some of the specific courses that were being
funded by the county, but I think more importantly, the discussion
focused on whether it was appropriate for the county to make this
expenditure at all and I believe Commissioner Constantine at the time,
you agreed with that principle, so I don't know that there's anything
different about this proposal than there was back in those days. I, I
don't know that I've changed my mind on the appropriateness of the
county making these reimbursements.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: One important change is the opening of
Florida Gulf Coast University in our backyard and, frankly, I think it
was a mistake to, it was a baby out with the bath water. I wasn't on
the board at the time, but my observation from the outside was that
that was an extreme reaction. I absolutely support tuition
reimbursement and I think that if we can have some reasonable
guidelines, that it's, it's exactly the kind of benefit that you
should have when you're working for government.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Well, I don't draw the line between government
and private sector on tuition reimbursement. We had a, in the time I
worked in the private sector, it was if you were seeking a degree that
would be of some benefit to the company you worked for, it then
qualified, but you then entered a contract that said you would obtain
the degree and work for that company for a, for a set period of time
after its obtaining.
What I'm afraid of is they take advantage of the benefit, they
get their MPA, and they go apply to, to a small city in Alabama and go
become a city manager somewhere else. We've paid the bill and another
community gets the benefit, so if we're going to look at this in any
way, it has to be looked at in the manner in which you say to an
employee, if you want to go to the next level, you need "x" amount of
education, are you willing to do it? If so, a shared cost program, I
think, is acceptable, but there has to be an employment requirement
that, that comes after that. The degree must be usable to the county
and if it's not or that employment term is not met, then the amount is
taken from that individual at time of termination. Those are the kind
of things that need to be worked out if, if we're going to look at
this and if everyone doesn't agree on that, then I have to agree with
Commissioner Norris. I think it's, you know, it's giving money away,
basically.
MR. MCNEES: There's a provision in the proposed policy that if
you separate within twelve months after getting reimbursed, you pay
the money back.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I want to be a little tighter. I want to know
that that --
COMMISSIONER BERRY: What's the reality of that happening? If
I'm on my way out the door, you're going to have to catch me to get
the money.
MR. MCNEES: We have your last check, so.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: But guaranteed that that last check probably
isn't going to --
MR. MCNEES: Perhaps.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: -- come close to tuition reimbursement. I
know what you're trying to do here and, for the most part, I would
support that. I support the education component with the work
requirement of "x" number of months or a year or two or whatever you
want to make it, that doesn't make any difference to me, but he or she
shall reimburse the county for all tuition refund? I mean the
likelihood of that, I don't even know if you can enforce it. Can you?
MR. MCNEES: Generally speaking, the way I'd address that is can
I tell you there will never be a situation where an employee might
take advantage of us, you know, work for four or five years in their
spare time earning a master's degree and then jump to some other
county who offers them a position that we're not able to offer them?
Sure, that might happen, but for the four or five years they're out
there working, you've had the benefit of a motivated employee who's
willing to spend his own free time bettering himself, making himself
more productive and I'm going to tell you that's going to be a huge
minority and, and if that's the price we pay for giving our people
these kind of -- make it a small minority, sorry. If that's the price
we pay for offering this benefit to the rest of our employees, given
the cost which I keep coming back to, the cost is just not that much,
given the cost, it's worth it and I'll tell you if we lose one now and
then, my philosophy has always been if we can make our people that
well trained that other people want to hire them, that's not the worst
problem we can have.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And I think the question is, you've
kind of hit on the, the nail on the head there. The question is, is
every employee that, that we help educate likely to go? No. Will we
lose some somewhere along the line? Probably, but I think most will
stay. As you said, you don't want to cut the line between private
sector and public sector and I think if you were in a good private
business and they take care of you, you stay and work for that company
and I think we've seen that with the employees we've taken good care
of here and we'll see that again if we take better care of them, so.
Commissioner Hancock, we do have a twelve month item in here. I
don't, I don't -- there was a time frame Mr. McNees had plugged in
because we had the same concern you did. I don't have any objection
if you want to make that eighteen months or some other time frame, but
I, I agree with you, we need to have a protection component so they
don't get reimbursed one day and leave the next, but I don't want to
go too far on that either. I don't want five years or --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: What I don't see is I don't see an evaluation
on whether or not the course of study they're pursuing is of some
benefit to the county on the administration side.
MR. MCNEES: Yes, that is, that's a provision.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. I again --
COMMISSIONER BERRY: It's in here.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: But that's the problem with trying to do
this today. In my opinion, we got this just handed to us. I would
like to just offer a general statement of support, encourage staff to
come up with guidelines, give us a chance to look at these more
carefully, maybe make some comments, but, but a general statement of
support with some guidelines and ask staff to go develop a policy.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And I'll balance that with a general statement
of concern.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And, and express your areas of concern
because the time line as far as people leaving, I think, is an
appropriate concern and one -- but one that can be addressed.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I think if they're going to take advantage of
tuition reimbursement, it needs to be a shared responsibility. In
other words, we don't pay for a hundred percent of the tuition
reimbursement, if an individual invests something of their own and
they are truly willing to put forth the effort, not just the time, so
I'd like to see a ratio of reimbursement, whether it be fifty percent
or seventy percent. It says you have to invest a little bit of your
own to get there, not just your time.
The second thing, or before we even go that far is to determine
whether or not the course of study is of some benefit to Collier
County. If it is, then we enter into a
contract that says upon completion of the study, you will be required
to work for Collier County in whatever position for a minimum period
of, and I'm thinking two years because the cost of -- even though it's
a state university and I mean people laugh when they tell -- when I
tell them what I paid for, per hour. It was like twenty-two dollars
an hour in college. It was, it was nothing compared to what it is
today.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Way back when we were kids.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yeah.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sorry.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: You know, so it's not -- but over a period of
four years, that's a lot of money, so those are, those are the things
I'm looking for.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No, I, I agree with you and that's why
I said to Mr. McNees in our initial conversations, one of my primary
objections a couple of years ago was there were no guidelines. You
had -- and the example I used was a very good one, that it didn't have
to have anything to do with what people were doing in their job and if
we are going to help them out, it should be for the benefit of the
county at large.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And the employee, but.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Right, and, and the two go hand in
hand and so I agree and I'd agree with Commissioner Mac'Kie's
suggestion that we bring this back in a final forum if there is just
general support, as long as those items can be met.
MR. HCNEES: Commissioner, I'd make a couple of more comments.
One, the number of employees that stay because we offer this benefit
will far exceed the number of employees that leave because they
completed a degree program and want to go to work somewhere else. I
can guarantee you that. The other thing I would say is I'd ask that
you, if we're going to try to nail down, you know, specific
requirements, that's great.
We've already written into the policy that it needs to be job
related, but we'd ask that you give us at least some discretion to,
this is a benefit and, generally speaking, the people who are going to
take advantage of it are investing their own time and we have an
interest in people not taking advantage of and not wasting the
county's money, but the more we try to make hard definitive
definitions of exactly what we'll pay for, the more we get into the
kind of situation we always get into which is we'll pay for donuts but
we won't pay for coffee types of things that we get into every time we
try to get a check cut and so we would ask that we be allowed to write
the policy with some discretion so that we're -- and you're going to
see one of those on next week's agenda, by the way, so I think you
understand what I'm getting at, that we need a little bit of
flexibility and discretion in the policy, that the more we try to firm
it and write a hard policy, the more trouble we're going to have in
administering it, I guess is what I'm saying.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: And I think we're, we're all talking and
we have an expert here, Dr. HcTarnigan, who could offer us some advice
and counsel, as we go through this process about, you know, what is
the experience that other university systems have with other
governments and try to give us some guidance as we develop a policy.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'm sure that's why he's been standing here
patiently, but rather than having, rather than having this discussion
all over again, if we're going to bring this back and discuss the meat
and content, then let's have that discussion once. In the meantime,
you know, you've heard my concerns and, obviously, if you meet all
those concerns, then you find me in the column of supporting, but it
does need to be sufficiently narrow so that we don't have to recoil
and eliminate the entire program somewhere down the road because one
or two individuals abuse it and we have egg on our face, so we, we
can't let that happen.
MR. HCNEES: Well, and, frankly, that's our job to make sure the
county's money doesn't get wasted. That's why I sit here.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: And as much as I said what I said, there's
also situations that may arise where a person doesn't have a choice
about whether they have to leave the county or not and so at that,
that certainly is something that in your position would be a
discretionary area that if the spouse somehow or other is transferred
out of Collier County, they don't have a choice whether they're going
to stay or not. Those are things that you would have to determine
whether you want to be, have that money reimbursed or not. I think
overall it's a good idea.
I certainly am supportive of it, but I think you just have to be
mindful that some of these things can happen and that we need to make
sure that in the policy, that those things are clearly stated and, and
again, there's going to have to be some discretion given and if we
don't like the discretion the way it's done, well --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We can change it. Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, I can see that I'm going to be in the
minority on this one, but a suggestion that might help overcome the
problem of the time spent after education would be to reimburse
overtime, maybe some percentage up front, some percentage after a
year, some percentage after two years or something to that effect to
make sure that you get some benefit out of it. That, that would be
one suggestion for consideration.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: That's, that's hard to do when you're
making eighteen thousand dollars, you know.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: No, no interest college loans.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: I think that is a bookkeeping nightmare.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- put the money out, though.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yeah. That's a no interest college loan.
Sounds -- I was taking it when I was there.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: But I, I think it's an accounting nightmare
to do it that way. I really do.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Dr. HcTarnigan?
DR. HCTARNIGAN: The good news is that we're here to serve and
work with you and your staff and a lot of good things have happened
and there are several options that have been discussed and we're
pleased to work with you to try to bring something back that will meet
your needs. That's my job --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
DR. HCTARNIGAN: -- and I'm pledged to do that.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. I know that you will and why don't
we ask that Commissioner Constantine, if you want to continue working
with Mr. HcNees to maybe refine this a little bit further based on
what you've heard today, we'll bring it back and take a vote on it and
see where we go.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Great.
Item #SA1
RESOLUTION 97-228 EXTENDING THE CURRENT PUD APPROVAL FOR THE R. ROBERTS
ESTATES PUD TO HAY 6, 1999 - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Thank you, Dr. HcTarnigan. That was
10(C). We're going to move back on the agenda to Item 8(A)(1), staff
review and recommendations relative to Ordinance 92-7, the R. Roberts
Estates PUD. Good morning, Mr. Bellows.
MR. BELLOWS: Good morning. For the record, Ray Bellows of
Planning Services Staff presenting the R. Roberts Estates PUD for
consideration for the Sunset Provisions of the Land Development Code.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Bellows, would it hurt your feelings if I
prefer to cut to the chase on this one? MR. BELLOWS: No.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We heard this shortly before accepting a 4.1
acre -- I know I have a speaker, but a 4.1 acre historic site. Some
of the densities may seem a little high, but this is kind of the, the
downtown Immokalee area in which they're probably needed more than
others. I don't, for one, see a lot of reason to make change in this.
I don't know if the board wants to kind of put its toes in the water,
so to speak, and then go to speakers or that would be my, my
direction.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I, I agree completely. I don't see any
need to make a change.
COHHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll put my toes in.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. We have three sets of toes in the
water. Let's go to speakers, if we may, Mr. HcNees. MR. WEIGEL: Dallas Townsend.
MR. TOWNSEND: The staff, and I'd like to thank them for alerting
us to this, has recommended that we be given a two year extension to
get this thing off the ground. As you probably are aware, the
economic climate in Immokalee has been somewhat stressed due to the
NAFTA effect on the vegetable industry and more recently the price
decline in citrus, so we've been a little bit struggling with getting
this project off the ground trying to entice a developer in there to
make this property the kind of a development in Immokalee that the
residents need and so we are respectfully asking a two year extension
on this PUD document.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, sir. Next speaker? Is there any?
MR. WEIGEL: No more.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion and a second. All those in
favor, signify by saying aye.
ALL COHMISSIONERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
Seeing none, Mr. Bellows, thank you very much.
Item #8C1
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO PAY INCREASED MANDATED MEDICAID COSTS - APPROVED
Item 8(B)(1) has been continued. How -- oh, that's the median
landscaping, okay. Item 8(C)(1), recommendation that the BCC approve
a budget amendment to pay increased mandated Medicaid costs. Mr.
Olliff, I see the word increase and mandated, not a good combination.
MR. OLLIFF: No, sir and unfortunately, I'm Tom Olliff here to
present this item, your Public Services Administrator.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Is that unfortunately you're Tom Olliff or
unfortunately you're here.
MR. OLLIFF: Unfortunately, I'm here to present --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. OLLIFF: -- the item. As you all know and we've talked about
this particular issue each time that we have a budget workshop session
with you, the Social Services Staff has over the years been holding
the state's feet to the fire in terms of what they are required to
submit to us for reimbursement for Medicaid payments, and in most
cases, we've been able to make a large number of deductions in each of
the monthly mandated bills because in most parts, the state does not
submit with its billing the required residency information or some
other type of information and I think if you will look at the
Executive Summary, it says, over the past four years, we've actually
been able to delete over a million dollars in the mandated Medicaid
bills.
That's the good news and, and I think what has happened is that
other counties have realized the same thing and, and perhaps when the
problem at the state level was only Collier County, it may not have
been something that was, something that they pursued with a great deal
of vigor, but as more and more counties have done the same thing that
Collier County has done, I think the amount of reimbursement that is
coming from the counties to the state has grown to the point where
they needed to start dealing with it and so we have seen at the last
quarter of last year and beginning this year each and every month
rebillings from previous bills that weren't paid in months past, and
to date, we have been receiving about thirty-three percent of the
bills that come in every month are febills from previous bills that
were submitted that we didn't pay and what we've got is a budget of
eight hundred sixty-five thousand dollars, and year to date, our
billings have been eight hundred thousand dollars, so I think we've
tried to straightline project that out for what it would be the rest
of the year and it looks as if our mandated Medicaid billings are
going to run about a million three hundred thousand dollars, so we're
here asking the board to approve a budget amendment of four hundred
and thirty-five thousand dollars from the general fund reserves to
transfer to the Social Services Department to allow Martha Skinner and
her department staff to, to make our mandated Medicaid payments.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Olliff, just for probably for those people
who may not understand this benefit, this is a mandate from the State
of Florida that the county must pay with local tax dollars on Medicaid
bills; is that correct?
MR. OLLIFF: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. And we -- that totals, that's totaled
in the past somewhere in the area of between six and eight hundred
thousand dollars a year in local tax dollars paying Medicaid bills.
MR. OLLIFF: (Nodding head.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Ms. Skinner's been very diligent in not
letting the state rip off Collier County in the past. It sounds to me
like some of that has come home to roost in the rebilling. Have they
basically gone back and changed the areas that caused us not to pay
the bill and resubmitted?
MR. OLLIFF: I think so, and what we have seen is they have
actually assigned an individual on their staff for each district who
is doing nothing but going back and poring over old bills that weren't
paid to try and verify and get the residency information and resubmit
bills.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: What's the limitation on that? How far back
can they go?
MR. OLLIFF: There is, from what we understand, at least from the
attorney general's office, I think, was the opinion that I saw, said
that there is no limitation on rebilling. MS. SKINNER: Back to 1984.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Ms. Skinner indicated back to 1984. Okay.
Are we, on these rebillings, are we questioning them or are -- I mean
these are, these are solid when they're coming back?
MR. OLLIFF: We continue to do the same exercise that we do on
rebillings or fresh new billings. We're going to make sure that
everything is required before we pay them. The good news is I think
going into this year, because of the experience we had at last quarter
of last year, I think the budget office was aware of, of the issue and
I think that they were aware that this year we were probably going to
be in this position and I think your general fund reserve, while it's
never as good as you would like for it to be, it is, it is fairly
comfortable at this point and I think this was an anticipated item
that was going to come up in front of you mid year.
What we did want to make sure was that you had this information
in front of you before you sat down and did budget reviews so that
your general fund reserve balance took this into account before you
actually started to review next year's budgets.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Any questions for Mr. Olliff? No? The
words mandated generally mean we don't have a lot of choice here, so
we need a motion to approve the budget amendment.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: Move approval.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion --
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
ALL COMMISSIONERS:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
Thank you, Mr. Olliff.
-- and a second. Any discussion?
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Aye.
Opposed?
Seeing none, an unhappy unanimous decision.
Ms. Skinner, thank you.
COHHISSIONER HAC'KIE: And thank you again to Ms. Skinner for all
the work that she does. She, you know -- the entire state is now
modeling their, their programs after hers and how she's catching them
when they mess up, so I thank you again.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Can we patent that and sell it, Ms. Skinner?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Yeah.
MS. SKINNER: I don't know.
Item #8C2
RECOMMENDATION TO CONTINUE ANY DISCUSSION RE THE INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT
WITH THE CITY OF NAPLES REGARDING BEACH PARKING - CONTINUED TO THE
MEETING OF MAY 20, 1997
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'll be your agent for consulting fees. Item
8(C)(2), this was a recommendation for continuance of beach parking.
Based on the council's decision yesterday that our staff's going to be
working together on this, I don't really see any need for the board to
take action on this matter at this time. COHMISSIONER BERRY: Agree.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: My only -- the newspaper correctly --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: By the way, thank you for being there
yesterday.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes, sir. The newspaper correctly
reported that they would like to have a solution before they go on
their vacation which is early in June. They -- well, mid June and
that gives us a pretty short time frame, so I'd like to ask Tom if he
could have his staff working on it diligently and, and promptly with
them and I did hear a great deal of interest in coming up with a
solution from a majority of the council.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: As usual, I mean the negative comments will,
will get printed because they're, they're -- COHMISSIONER BERRY: Negative.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yeah. They're inflammatory and so forth, but
likewise, my individual discussions with members of the council have
been very positive, so we'll just ask our staff to continue working on
that and bring it back in in some form if there's any change
necessary. If there's no change in beach parking there or no net
effect on our residents, we have no reason to discuss the agreement.
MR. OLLIFF: I think the issues are small enough. I don't see
any reason why we couldn't have this on your agenda for Hay 20th
before city council goes on vacation.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Do we need a motion to continue to Hay
20th? It is so moved.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion seconded. Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
ALL COMMISSIONERS:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Aye.
Opposed?
Seeing none, that is continued to Hay 20th.
Item #SD1
RESOLUTION 97-229, RE GROUP HEALTH PLAN - ADOPTED AND BUDGETARY PROPSAL
AS RECOHMENDED BY STAFF APPROVED
Item 8(D)(1), recommendation to approve a budgetary proposal for the
Collier County group health plan. Morning, Mr. Ochs.
MR. OCHS: Good morning, commissioners. For the record, Leo
Ochs, Support Services Administrator. I find myself with -- in the
enviable position this morning of reporting to the board that the,
your protected self-funded medical benefit plan is in a very good
financial position. In fact, it's in such good financial shape, that
we find ourselves in the somewhat odd position of having excess
reserves that we would like to return back to the board. We have a
very brief slide presentation that will take you through the staff
recommendations, if we might.
The first slide is, is a slide that depicts the budget for
medical claims payments for fiscal years '95, '96 and '97 versus the
actual claims history and you can see from the slide that in fiscal
year '95, actual medical claims expenses were approximately 1.2
million dollars less than budget, in fiscal year '96 approximately 1.7
million dollars less than budget, and for the current fiscal year,
staff is projecting medical claims at approximately four million
dollars which would represent about a nine hundred thousand dollar
reduction against the budget for medical claims. I should explain
briefly that the target or the budget for medical claims is set each
year based on an actuarial evaluation of the medical plan that's
required by state statute, so each year we use the actuarial
evaluation to form the basis for our annual premium allocations out to
the operating departments and to set our reserves and medical claims
experience numbers.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I assume that includes an average element for
catastrophic illness in a given year? MR. OCHS: It does.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Have we been above or below that?
MR. OCHS: We've been quite a bit below that. In the next slide,
we'll basically give you some of the primary reasons why our
experience has been so favorable over the last twenty-four to thirty
months. One of the reasons is that we've had very few catastrophic
claims in that period of time and that helps considerably. The next
contributing factor is the very positive effects of the managed care
program that the board put in place, I believe, back in 1984, January
of 1984.
We have a managed care contract now with the NCH health care
system and it's resulting in substantial reductions in our medical
claims, and the third area, again, is an action that the board took
approximately three years ago where we redesigned our medical benefit
plan to provide three annual deductible options for employees to
choose from and we're finding that a large number of our employees
have chosen what we call the high deductible option and basically the
result of that is that more claims are being paid by employees using
that higher deductible instead of being paid against the plan
expenses.
I want to briefly go over the objectives of the plan and the
staff recommendations today. The first one is to obviously operate
the plan on a break even basis. The medical plan is funded as an
internal service account, not a profit center and, therefore, we --
the objective is to operate the plan on a break even basis annually.
The second objective that we have is to reduce our current reserves to
a level that's sufficient to cover our plan costs each year and to
provide for future liabilities, and then thirdly, the goal today is
again, to return, as I said, unneeded surplus reserves back to the
board and to our employees in recognition of their prudent use of the
benefit plan, so we have a series of recommendations to get us to
where we want to go.
The first one of those is to not bill for the, for eight months
of the current fiscal year our medical premiums out into our operating
departments. That will help reduce our reserves. Secondly, we are
proposing to declare an experience incentive bonus for employees,
again, in recognition of their efforts and judicious use of the
benefit plan, and then thirdly, a reduction in our fiscal year '98
budgeted rates to get the plan back on a break even basis and, again,
just very briefly, the detail of each one of those recommendations.
The eight premium holidays would obviously prevent further
accumulation of additional reserves and those savings then would
remain in the respective funds of the operating department budget, and
if not spent this year, would obviously accrue in the next year's
budget in the form of carry forward.
In terms of the experience incentive bonus, what the staff is
recommending is that we, that we utilize approximately two months'
worth of premiums and split that as a -- between eighty percent would
go back to the board and the remaining twenty percent, approximately a
hundred and eighty-four thousand dollars, would go back to all of the
planned participants in the form of a one time cash bonus which would
be approximately a hundred and forty dollars per employee and, again,
I need to remind the board that your plan not only covers employees of
the board but also employees of the constitutional officers, with the
exception of the sheriff.
The third element, again, as we recommended, was a reduction in
next year's premiums as depicted in the bar chart. We would recommend
that the family rate be reduced from forty-nine hundred to four
thousand dollars and the employ -- excuse me, and the single rate from
two thousand three hundred fifty to nineteen hundred dollars. That,
those are, on percentage terms, family rate reduction of approximately
18.5 percent and a single rate reduction of approximately 19.2
percent, and at those rates, we would be able to fund the plan on a
break even basis annually.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Have you shown these numbers to the sheriff's
office?
MR. OCHS: No, sir, I have not.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. They may want to see them for inclusion
in our plan. It'll save the taxpayer a lot of money.
MR. OCHS: And finally, in terms of the fiscal impact, if the
board were to implement the staff recommendations this morning, you
would have a reduction of approximately nine hundred and twenty
thousand dollars in next year's budget as a result of the recommended
premium rate reduction. In addition, you would have potential for
three million six hundred and eighty thousand dollars' worth of carry
forward that would be in the form of unbilled premiums for the current
fiscal year and, again, that just summarizes the, the three primary
staff recommendations to get the plan reserves back to where they need
to be on a break even basis.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Leo, let me ask you this. Where there was a
split of money being returned to the employee and money going to the
general fund --
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- there are two types of premium paid. One
is paid by the employer, by the county per se for the employee, and
the other is paid by the employee themselves. How are we making sure
that we're not collecting money from the employee that is then
subsidizing the general fund? Is that how you arrived at eighty -- in
other words, I don't want to collect premiums out of someone's
paycheck --
MR. OCHS: Sure.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- and then put it in the general fund. That
money, if it's refundable, should go back to them. However, the
portion that the county paid as a part of benefits that came out of
the, you know, out of basically tax dollars, that, we should recoup.
I want to make sure that split's fair to the employee.
MR. OCHS: Well, that's a great question and I need to clarify.
What we're recommending is a bonus to all participants of the plan
that's a reflection of their good work in, in their judicious use of
the plan. It's not really a return on contributions made by
individuals because as you pointed out, the single rate is paid a
hundred percent by the board. The family rate is a combination of
board payment and employee contribution.
However, that is not to say that individuals, single people don't
contribute to the savings just as much as family members have by
judicious use of the plan, choosing higher deductible levels, taking
advantage of the annual wellness benefit, so that's a great question
and I wanted to emphasize the fact that this is an across the board
flat bonus to all participants based on their good utilization,
prudent utilization of the plan. It's not a refund of employee
contributions per se.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: But it does because I've, because I've
talked to Leo about this before the meeting, too, but it does somehow
proportionately reflect the concern that you have that we're not
taking money out of, out of employees' pockets --
MR. OCHS: That's --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: -- and putting it into the tax.
MR. OCHS: That's correct, Commissioner. In the family plan,
about twenty-two percent of that overall rate is paid by the employee,
the balance by the board, so we rounded that down to twenty percent
and that was kind of the basis for the eighty/twenty split
recommendation.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. That answers my question.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Are there any questions for Mr.
Ochs?
COHMISSIONER BERRY: No.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I think congratulations are in order to you
and to Mr. Walker for keeping tabs on this and assuming we don't have
a catastrophic out-year that changes that opinion, job well done and
thank you.
MR. OCHS: You're welcome.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: And also a thank you to the staff for, for
the judicious use of the plan and I would like to move approval of all
of the staff's recommendations so that we give that thank you with a
check.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Will there be a notice in the check informing
the employee of the purpose for the additional amount?
MR. OCHS: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. OCHS: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. We have a motion and a second. Is
there any further discussion? I'll call --
MR. WEIGEL: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- the question? Mr. Weigel has further
discussion. Yes, sir.
MR. WEIGEL: Yeah. Our office has, has reviewed what's proposed
and we want to assist staff and the commission with the mechanisms to
make it legally occur and although there is a specific statute,
Section 215.425 which has strong requirements, in fact, impediments to
a bonus, there's also under our general powers and duties statute a
provision that does provide for the board to be able to establish a
bonus payment program.
It appears to me based on the presentation, that under, again,
Section 125.01, the board could hereby adopt a resolution establishing
a one time lump sum bonus payment program incorporating the basic
information that staff has provided you today, and in that resolution,
the board would need to specifically find, make a finding that the
employee's performance exceeds standards in defining employees
appropriately to those that are to receive this bonus compensation.
It is a bonus. It is not a, a return on premium and the facts seem to
establish that and so the mechanism of the resolution with that
finding specifically finding that these employees' performance exceed
standards and that this is a one time lump sum bonus payment program
are key words to have in the resolution.
Another way to go would be to adopt an ordinance which would be
probably a stronger legal mechanism, but it appears that both
mechanisms are available and I would suggest that the board opt for
one of the two.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Let me suggest that we have a motion on the
floor to adopt the budgetary proposal. Let us complete that motion,
take a second motion effecting a resolution with the verbiage you have
indicated. Why don't we take the vote on the first motion which is to
approve the budgetary proposal presented to us today. We do have a
motion and a second. All those in favor signify by saying aye.
ALL COMHISSIONERS: Aye.
CHAI~ HANCOCK: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, do we have a motion on the
resolution?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I move that we make a finding that -- why
don't you read again, David, what we're making a finding of.
MR. WEIGEL: Certainly. You'd be making a finding that the
employees' service exceeds standards.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's easy to do. So moved.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And that resolution incorporates the previous
verbiage Mr. Weigel indicated as far as lump sum payment, et cetera.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and second. Any discussion?
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: No.
CHAI~ HANCOCK: All those in favor signify by saying aye.
ALL COMHISSIONERS: Aye.
CHAI~ HANCOCK: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, good catch on that, Mr. Weigel.
Thank you very much. Again --
MR. OCHS: Thank you again, commissioners.
CHAI~ HANCOCK: -- Mr. Walker, Mr. Ochs, thank you.
MR. OCHS: Appreciate it.
Item #8D2
BID #97-2662, "TIRES, TUBES, AND RELATED SERVICES" - AWARDED TO VARIOUS
FIRMS LISTED IN THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Next we're to a move from the consent agenda
Item 16(D)(2) that moved to Item 8(D)(2). This is a bid number
97-2662, tires, tubes, and related services. Why was this pulled off?
COHMISSIONER BERRY: I did it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Oh, Commissioner Berry did. Okay.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: There was a concern raised to me in regard
to this particular bid and I had asked Mr. HcNees if he would get some
information. The concerns raised had to do with the second paragraph
in that particular, in the Executive Summary in terms of, oh, about
one, two three, four, five, about six lines down where A-Expert Tire &
Service, Incorporated was at a minimum seven fifty an hour cheaper
than the other competitors and it was brought to my attention that
this particular company is on Alico Road and there was some concern
raised about that in terms of the cost, that the payment for these
particular types of jobs, it's from portal to portal, though they may
be seven fifty dollar -- seven dollars and fifty cents cheaper, that
perhaps because of their location, it may not be cheaper in the long
run.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: So there were some concerns raised there, as
well as with the tire prices, on the second sentence with the tire
prices being equal, and mentioning the state contract had to do with
the fact that this particular company that we're talking about is not
a Goodyear dealer and apparently the state contract deals with
Goodyear tires. At least that's the concern that was brought to me,
so I asked for some clarification on that and so we may have some
other information than the information I received. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Mr. HcNees.
MR. HCNEES: Mr. Croft is prepared to answer those questions.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: Okay.
MR. CROFT: Good morning. I'm Dan Croft. I'm the county fleet
manager. On the first concern about the, our vehicles being serviced
from Alico Road, this particular contractor has a truck, a service
truck that is permanently stationed in Naples at this time to service
the Naples city contract. He assures me that if he gets this
contract, he will have two service trucks here which matches any of
the other competitors, I believe, in town. He also has two other
service trucks and he assures me that if, in fact, two service trucks
in the area do not satisfy our requirement, then he will put a third
truck in the Naples area on permanent consignment.
Now, this bid is, is a, it's a joint bid by the county and the
school board, so he, he understands what the requirements are. Two to
three trucks should satisfy the requirement for Naples, the school
board and the county.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay, Mr. Croft. Then the other question
raised by Commissioner Berry was that the state contract apparently
affects Goodyear products and A-Expert Tire & Service is not a
Goodyear dealer. How do we reconcile that?
MR. CROFT: That, that's correct. The plans with this, this
contractor or this dealer has made arrangements with two different
authorized Goodyear dealers to put tires on consignment for him for
the county. As those tires are used, we will be billed directly by
those authorized Goodyear dealers and they -- we will pay our bills
directly to them. Our purchasing director has talked directly to the
Goodyear headquarters in Florida and they said that is, is a
legitimate arrangement.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Would there be any service charge added to
the, to the, those tires above state contract amounts?
MR. CROFT: There's no service charge and no taxes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: I don't know. There may be some speakers on
this.
MR. HCNEES: You have one registered speaker.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Let's go to the speaker.
MR. HCNEES: Richard Rivera.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Rivera, if you will state your name and
public speakers are allotted five minutes.
MR. RIVERA: Okay. My name is Richard Rivera. I'm with Collier
Retreading Company, also partner in All American Truck Tire Center.
My biggest concern on this issue to the board is the misrepresentation
in the answering of this bid process. The specifications three, the
award of this bid will be made to the lowest, most qualified, and
responsive bidder who is able to service all buyer wheeled vehicles
and equipment.
The county today, just the county, without excluding the
sheriff's department, has twenty-eight hundred positions on the road.
This man, this company, A-Expert Tire doesn't even have a
warehouse to provide tires. We, the local dealers, have a complete
stock for the school board, the county and the city. This has been in
place for the past sixteen years. My concern is that A-Expert
represented himself as a qualified agent to provide the necessary
services for Collier County and he's not qualified. Secondly, he
plans to utilize companies that do not participate in this bidding
process to deliver the product. How can a person who did not
participate in this bid process deliver to you?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The answer is it happens all the time. It's
like a construction company. We don't know where they're getting
fill, but the fill is a part of their bid. They bid it at a price and
they provide it at that price regardless of where they get it, so the
second one is a little bit easier. The first issue you raised sounds
to me like fodder for a formal bid protest which would completely fall
upon you to make. If you feel that the bidding process is
inappropriate, I suggest you file a formal bid protest if the time has
not lapsed.
MR. CARNELL: It has lapsed.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And it has lapsed. Unfortunately, there is,
there is a timing issue in which if you feel one of the bidders has
not qualified, you, as another bidder, have the opportunity to file
that protest. That time has passed. What is available to us is
rather limited, quite frankly.
MR. RIVERA: I have a question, if I may. The bid reads, tires,
tubes, and related services, tires being the first and most important
part of the bid, then tubes and related services. How can we exclude
the tires?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Have you, have you addressed these questions
to Mr. Carnell's department? He is the purchasing director. MR. RIVERA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Mr. Camell, have we answered these?
MR. CARNELL: Yes. For the record, Steve Camell, Purchasing
Director. With regard to that, the protest question, the matter has
already been discussed with my office, so the window for protest, the
other parties have had an opportunity to file a protest and have not
elected to do so. With regard to the question at hand, the
specifications for this bid do not require the bidder to be an
authorized Goodyear dealer. It does name Goodyear products, but it
does not require the bidder to actually be an authorized Goodyear
dealer.
Now, Mr. Rivera brought this to my attention a couple of weeks
ago with regard to A-Expert Tire's status and the other local bidders
have since brought it to my attention as well and I had spoken to, as
Mr. Croft mentioned, the Goodyear representative in Jacksonville for
the State of Florida who faxed me a list of authorized Goodyear
dealers. When I returned his call -- he called me then at the same
time and I spoke to him about this and he advised me that -- in fact,
he's the one who suggested what we're proposing to do here, the
methodology. He had -- the Goodyear Tire Company has no problem
whatsoever with what's being proposed here.
The only point he wanted to make to me was, and he's correct,
that if A-Expert Tire buys the tires from a Goodyear dealer, that is a
private transaction between two private parties, so then when the
tires are resold to Collier County, the sales tax would be a cost that
would be passed on to us and we would no longer be legitimately exempt
and so what we need to do is to implement here a legitimate sales tax
avoidance procedure which we do all the time on construction projects
through the office of Capital Projects Management. This is a routine
process to open purchase orders directly to a particular supplier who
is a supplier to a prime contractor and that is exactly what we're
proposing to do here to avoid the sales tax legitimately.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: What's the cost differential between the, the
low bidder in this case and -- I know we have to throw three different
elements into that to get to that number. What's the cost
differential between that and a total service provider, that is, the
closest bidder? What are we talking per year? What's the difference
in those two?
MR. CROFT: We're talking about the difference between the, the
selected contractor and the nearest competitor, fourteen to sixteen
thousand dollars a year.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Mr. Rivera, it's not appropriate for
this board to hear a bid protest out of the context that our -- MR. RIVERA: I understand that.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- Purchasing Department has identified. It
sounds to me like at least your, your comments have been heard and
worked on and, obviously, if things don't work out, this will go back
out to bid and that will be identified. Is there anything further,
any further comments you have?
MR. RIVERA: Just basically I still don't understand how the
Board of County Commissioners can go and actually buy the tires from a
vendor out of the county that did not even participate in this
process. The price is equal. You have two participants here in this
whole who have businesses here in town, have the tires in stock and
we're going to truck those tires out of Lee County and those vendors
in Lee County did not even participate in this process. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, that would be really no different
than if we hired a contractor to build sidewalks around this complex.
You wouldn't expect him to have cement trucks and a warehouse with,
with cement products in it, now, would you? So, so really it --
MR. RIVERA: It doesn't apply. When you have an ambulance down,
we have to go and service it.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, I think that's a very appropriate
analogy. These people can supply us with the goods even though they
don't own the goods at the time perhaps, but that's not important, as
long as we get the goods, the proper goods and in an appropriate
amount of time.
MR. RIVERA: I don't think you understand my question.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes, I do.
MR. RIVERA: You have two bidders --
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: You, you've stated your question very
eloquently and I understood it perfectly, but I don't think you're
understanding the, the analogy that I made, is that we're hiring a
contractor to perform a service. Where he buys his products that he
uses in supplying us with those goods and services is immaterial. MR. RIVERA: I understand.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'd, I'd suggest if it's at the same price,
maybe you need to contact and be their local provider in this
contract. That would probably make a lot of sense, but I understand
-- we like, you know, we obviously like to deal with local bidders
first and foremost, but we aren't always offered that opportunity and
we're talking about a price difference here of fourteen to sixteen
thousand, so if you can become a supplier for A-Expert Tire, more
power to you, but we're not going to determine that supplier today
here in this forum.
MR. RIVERA: Okay. Very good. Thank you for your time.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Rivera. Okay. We need a
motion on either to approve staff recommendation --
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I make a motion.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. We have a motion to approve staff
recommendation. Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
ALL COMHISSIONERS:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
Motion and a second. Any discussion?
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Aye.
Opposed?
Seeing none, motion carries unanimously.
We
are to Item 8(D). Yes, we are to a break. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: We need a break.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Let's take, let's take five minutes.
(Break taken at 10:35 a.m.)
Item #BE1
REQUEST FOR FUNDING A YOUTH INVITATIONAL SOCCER TOURNAMENT FOR
$5,670.00, TOURIST DEVELOPMENT FUNDS, CATEGORY C - APPROVED
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Good morning. We're going to reconvene the
Hay 6th Board of County Commissioners meeting. We're to Item 8(E)(1).
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Motion to approve Item 8(E)(1).
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
ALL COHMISSIONERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Opposed?
(No response.)
Item #8E2
REQUEST FOR FUNDING A 20K RUNNING RACE FOR $3,00.00, TOURIST
DEVELOPMENT FUNDS, CATEGORY C - APPROVED
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, Item 8(E)(2).
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Hr. Chairman, I'd like to make a
motion we approve Item 8(E)(2).
COHMISSIONER BERRY: Second it.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and second. All those in favor,
signify by saying aye.
ALL COHMISSIONERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: By the way, anyone want to speak on those?
(No response.)
Item #8E3
REQUEST FOR FUNDING A SENIORS BOWLING TOURNAMENT FOR $49,969.99,
TOURIST DEVELOPMENT FUNDS, CATEGORY C - APPROVED
CHAI~ HANCOCK: Okay. Item 8(E)(3).
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Hr. Chairman, I'd like to make a
motion we approve Item 8(E)(3).
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and second. Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
ALL COMMISSIONERS: Aye.
Item #8E4
REQUEST FOR FUNDING $124,404.00 FOR SEA TURTLE MONITORING TOURIST
DEVELOPMENT CATEGORY A FUNDS - APPROVED
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And next Item 8(E)(4). The brakes have been
hit. I do want to give the benefit of the TDC discussion on this one.
We did the same thing, but this is the --
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: How much money?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: This is, it's actually only one or two
thousand dollars more than last year. This is the part that we are
mandated by the state to have the turtle monitoring program and the
cost this year is less than three percent higher than last year.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Our other option is to pay it out of
GF.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Our other option is general fund or to take
the state to court, neither of which is very inexpensive.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a
motion we approve Item 8(E)(4).
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I've got a question. Taking the state to
court, what, what's the penalty if we fail to do this or if we left it
to the private sector to do?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Turtles will die.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I know turtles will die, eggs will crack.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The, the real -- the penalty, I don't know,
but this is one of those wonderful unfunded mandates that the state
tells us we have to do it and then if we don't want to, we can
challenge them.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just wonder how much of it the
Conservancy would fund if we didn't do it. Hi, Michael. MICHAEL: It's not that much.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, with that thought, I'll withdraw
my motion.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Miss, Miss Gansel, is there any, other than
what's in our package, any additional technical information that you
think the board should have or that you have that would be helpful in
this decision?
MS. GANSEL: Dr. Lorenz is here and he'll be glad to address it.
Also, this will only be included in the fiscal '98 budget, so you will
be reviewing this again during the budget hearings during the summer.
That's as technical as I get, but Dr. Lorenz can talk about the other
items.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Bill, I think Commissioner Mac'Kie's question
is what are our options here. We just kind of keep going through this
every year and doing it. What are the options? What are other
communities doing different from what we are?
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: This would help toward that Medicaid
payment. Yeah, I know, I know.
MR. LORENZ: Yes. For the record, Bill Lorenz, Natural Resources
Director. These are conditions that are imposed on the permit -- for
the permits for beach nourishment, for tilling of the beaches and for
even parts of past maintenance where we have to, we have, the county
has to, as part of the permits for those, for those activities, must
have a sea turtle monitoring program in place --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: So the answer to Commissioner
Mac'Kie's earlier question, though, what would happen if we didn't do
this? We'd lose, likely lose those permits?
MR. LORENZ: That's -- I do not, I'm not involved with the
permitting, but that would be my answer. The state would not issue
the permits if, if we don't do it.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: One more question.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Do we have to do a hundred and twenty-six
thousand dollars worth of monitoring to comply with the permits?
MR. LORENZ: Yes. This is, this is the minimum requirement that
we're, that we are doing.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: How many volunteer hours -- and this is the
one -- again, these are the questions that TDC asked. There's a
tremendous amount of volunteer hours that actually go into this. We
have people staying up nights watching these nests, if I'm not
mistaken, that are not being paid. Is that correct?
MR. LORENZ: Well, the, the --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The Conservancy does anyway.
MR. LORENZ: The Conservancy is actually under contract. The
Conservancy is getting ten thousand dollars for this and they have an
intern program that they, that they manage. Our discussions with Dave
Addison in the past has indicated that, that they're not interested in
doing anymore than what they currently do. They basically do the
city's beaches, so we provide them with the ATVs, with a lot of the --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The Naples city's beaches, you mean where the
city residents park?
MR. LORENZ: No.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Does that mean city turtles are worth more
than county turtles?
MR. LORENZ: No. That's just that they had been doing that in
the past. They're familiar with, with that particular beach and so
we've -- the county through the TDC monies funds the Conservancy. I
think it's budgeted for ten thousand dollars, roughly ten thousand
dollars for next year.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So we pay them ten thousand dollars and they
have interns which are, is freebie labor? COHMISSIONER BERRY: Freebie.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'm a -- that, we may need to examine -- that
relationship has been closed with the budget.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Well, but may I? More specifically, even
setting aside that ten thousand dollars, what's the other hundred and
sixteen thousand dollars spent on? MR. LORENZ: Pardon?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: What's the other hundred and sixteen
thousand dollars spent on besides ten grand to the Conservancy?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Are you saying, show me the money?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Show me the money. I don't understand a
hundred and sixteen twenty-six thousand dollars to count turtle nests.
MR. LORENZ: We have ninety-nine thousand dollars in personal
services that funds two individuals.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: So we have two full-time --
MR. LORENZ: Full-time.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: -- staff year round?
MR. LORENZ: That's correct.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And what exactly do they do? In their
typical eight hour day --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Thank you, Tim.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- what do they do? They get up in
the morning or at night perhaps and they go to work and what do they
do?
MR. LORENZ: They -- daily monitoring, seven days a week.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Donwt, donwt generalize. Tell me
specifically. They get up on Monday, whatever time of work they go,
go to work, whatever time of day they go to work --
COMMISSIONER MACwKIE: Do they show up at your office?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Do they go to an office, do they go
sit on the beach and look at eggs? What do they do?
MR. LORENZ: During turtle nesting season, they get up, they get
on the beach, they have an ATV that theywve -- wewve parked at various
places. They run down the whole length of the beach that theywre
assigned to. During --
COMMISSIONER BERRY: How much do they get paid for doing this?
MR. LORENZ: During that, during that effort --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Let him get through this first.
MR. LORENZ: During that effort, they have to -- the state
requires as permit condition that we monitor every mile of that beach,
and when there is a nest, they have to post the nest, they have to
record a whole lot of data associated with the nest. If itws a false
crawl which is the turtle comes up on the beach and does not nest,
they have to record the false crawl and the data associated with that.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: When I played four square as a kid, we
used to call it false crawls sometimes.
COMMISSIONER MACIKIE: Yeah. I know that one.
MR. LORENZ: Thatls part of the daily reconnaissance. Then they
come back, they have to take care of the ATVs and various equipment.
Then we go through a data entry process where you have to enter all of
that data onto the computer.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Then what happens to that data?
MR. LORENZ: That data is part of an annual report that is 41
submitted to the state. Itls a permit requirement to submit that
annual report.
COMMISSIONER MACIKIE: What about non-season, what do these two
full-time employees do?
MR. LORENZ: Non-season, thatls when theylre basically working on
the report. Itls taking all that time -- a lot of the data entry does
not occur during season because we donlt have time to put it in there,
so that during non-season, theylre working on the turtle -- working on
the report putting the data entry in. Theylre also, theylre also,
during the non-season, theylre also taking care of refurbishing of
equipment, new equipment procurement because this is out of the off
season work. Not only do we do the turtle monitoring which is, which
is that, but we also have to do beach compaction measurements. We
have to go out to the beach, zone the beach. Therels a particular
piece of equipment that they go and do and that has to be done prior,
prior to a lot of the raking activities, so thatls another off season
exercise. Again, that information has to be entered into the computer
and developed for the state.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Further questions of Mr. Lorenz? Mr. Cautero,
you have something to add?
MR. CAUTERO: I just wanted to make a comment, Mr. Chairman.
Vince Cautero for the record. That issue of full-time employment for
those employees year round was discussed at the budget workshops last
year. I just wanted to remind the board of that.
COMMISSIONER MACIKIE: I remember that. I just, I just know that
welve been, welve been rich in these funds in the past and that is
ending and it's causing me to look far more closely, frankly, at, I
understand we have to comply with the permits, but does that cost a
hundred and twenty-six thousand dollars or could we do it for
twenty-six thousand dollars?
MR. CAUTERO: And I -- and rightly so. That's a good question.
Mr. Lorenz last year during his time researched that issue and he's
continuing to research that and I've directed him to do so. We looked
at other sources of funding. I believe the one twenty-six is, is the
minimum needed for those two employees at this point in time and I
believe the two employees are necessary to comply with the permit. If
that, if that amount can go down, we will certainly recommend it to
you and if we can find alternative sources of funding, we will
certainly recommend it to you so that the tourist development funds
don't have to be tapped every year for it.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Well, I don't think that's the appropriate
place to fund it from, though, because that's the beach renourishment
fund and this is a beach renourishment permit condition. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Yeah.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: So I think that's an appropriate funding
source. The only question is does it really cost that much or could
we do it cheaper, and that -- we've, we've gone through this
discussion, though, several times and we always come back to this same
point. We can look at it a little closer in this year's budget
discussion, but I'11, I'll move approval.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Do we ever ask what are we paying the
Conservancy to do that, that, you know -- I mean we have two full-time
employees. Do they run all beaches in Collier County, city, whether
they be adjacent to the city limits or county limits?
MR. LORENZ: The -- we have two, two full-time employees and we
also use seasonal recap employees as well, so that's a part of --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. But we don't differentiate between city
and county. We do it, we do the whole thing, Marco Island, the whole
ball of wax?
MR. LORENZ: That's correct. We -- I mean, the whole, all of the
county beaches are done on this daily monitoring. Kice Island has to
be done twice a week for purposes of Caxambas Inlet Management Plan.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Then what are we paying the Conservancy to do
within the city limits solely that isn't necessary outside of that? I
don't understand. When I heard just in the -- I thought the
Conservancy was just helping county wide. I didn't know it was just
in the city.
MR. LORENZ: Oh, no. They just, they just simply do the city
beaches, the city beach. That's just, that's just their geographical
territory that they've been assigned since they have been doing that
in the past.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: What do they do?
MR. LORENZ: They do the, they basically just do the daily, the
daily monitoring.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So we don't have to do it, then?
MR. LORENZ: That's correct. We get their information and
process their information for the purposes of the report.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: How about doing the county for twenty
thousand? I mean if they're doing the city monitoring --
MR. LORENZ: Last year, well, last year, I -- we asked the
Conservancy as to whether they'd be interested in doing anything more
and looking at it as an economic analysis and they weren't because
they can just simply deal with their student interns. In other words,
at their capacity of dealing with student interns is my understanding
is they've --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: It sounds like a new Florida Gulf Coast
University program. Commissioner Constantine?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I agree with Commissioner Norris that
any time you get into a detailed question on this, it's probably
budget time and by the sounds of things, she'll be prepared to do
that, but I want to know and if you don't have an answer now, perhaps
you will at budget time, what happens to those reports, much like our
water quality reports, that went to a shelf and sat there and were
never, as far as we could tell, referred to. I realize the state may
require these reports, but are we simply assembling information,
sending it off and someone -- or are we sustaining a job in
Tallahassee for someone, too?
MR. LORENZ: No. This, this is, this is the report that goes to
Tallahassee to satisfy the --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's a hundred and twenty-six thousand
dollars.
MR. LORENZ: -- the requirement. I mean, obviously, we've got it
as part of our, our, if you will, our environmental library of data
and information that's important for the county. We use the
information for purposes of developing the Growth Management Plan and
reporting on information that we have to provide in the data
analysis --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: How many pages is that report?
MR. LORENZ: Sixty, sixty-five, seventy.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Because that just -- if half the year
is turtle nesting season and the other half is assembling the report,
that means, you know, they do two and a half pages a week.
MR. LORENZ: There's more than just the report. There is the
beach compaction activities and there's a lot of effort that requires
for mobilization and demobilization of the storage. We have four ATVs
that we have to, have to deal with and storage sheds that we're
working through the year. Plus, during the summertime, the staff is,
staff is requiring a lot of camp time, so they're earning -- working
more than a forty hour week, so during the, during the off season,
that's when they're able to take that camp time off.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Let me, let me suggest this. We're getting
into a lot of detail that's actually budget level detail. I think the
stage has been set that once again this year we're going to go over
these, these same costs dollar for dollar, so you may want to look at
the tapes for last year.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: One last comment.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Go ahead. I'm trying to move on.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I know and my last comment is just for
budget discussions. I'm going to be interested in seeing what we
could do to privatize this, this permit compliance function and I bet
we could privatize it for less than a hundred and twenty-six thousand
dollars.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Or I liked the college intern idea you
mentioned.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: But I think one of the bottom lines, it
sounds like the hundred and twenty-six thousand, does this, is this
something that has to go to the state? Again, I'm looking at the
state and saying why is this a requirement, you know, that we are, we
are held hostage because, I mean we have to do this. I don't think
this is any reflection on Mr. Lorenz as much as it is on, you know,
further up the road and, again, passing an unfunded mandate, if you
will, down to the county. I'm more perturbed on the reasoning behind
all of this and I'll learn that, I'm sure, during the budget --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: It's a permit condition versus --
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Right.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- a mandate, which the two are different.
Mr. Gonzalez?
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes, sir. Adolfo Gonzalez, Capital Projects
Director. That's exactly it, Commissioner. The beaches that we have,
the beach restoration project we did last year, the raking we do
during the off, during the non-turtle nesting season all hinges on the
compaction of the beach, on the suitability of the beach to allow
turtles to nest and to hatch during their season. It's critical to
the, not just the beach project we just finished but to the future
maintenance of those beaches and those raking activities. That is in
the beach renourishment permit conditions that the passes, Caxambas
Pass, they're all typical conditions now for those permits.
I understand your desire to privatize and hopefully save money.
I can tell you that when it comes down to getting time extensions, for
instance, Caxambas Pass, we're now into the turtle nesting season, we
have been granted a two week time extension to finish that project and
one of the key reasons why is the state relies heavily on one of Bill
Lorenz's staff persons, Maura Kraus, to say, yes, it's not going to
endanger or, yes it will, and we're going to work around it. She's
got a lot of credibility with this state which really helps our cause.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: It sounds like a day at the beach for a couple
of people. In truth, these are biologists that are degreed and have
to construct their report in such a manner that it meets all the
state's, you know, i's being dotted and t's being crossed. We have a
speaker. Let's go to that speaker and try and wrap this item up. MR. MCNEES: You have to. Dick Lydon.
MR. LYDON: I came down here to talk about parking, but since I
am chairman of the beach renourishment committee, I'd like to tell you
that we had serious concerns about a hundred and twenty-six thousand
dollars, too.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Name for the record?
MR. LYDON: I'm Dick Lydon.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
MR. LYDON: And we think there may be some ways and I think we
have proven with our past performance of saving something over between
a million and a half and two million dollars on the reconstruction of
the beach, that we are not down there just flapping our gums. We're
going to take a look at these things as they come before us. That
recommendation comes from us to TDC to you all. We're not going to
send it up here if we think there's a few bucks to be saved and that's
all I have to say. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
MR. McNEES: Michael Simonik and Judy Leinweber.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Simonik?
MR. SIMONIK: Good morning, commissioners. For the record,
Michael Simonik, Environmental Policy Coordinator for the Conservancy
of Southwest Florida. I guess I just needed to jump up and defend the
Conservancy and what we do. We do receive ten thousand dollars in
money for the sea turtle monitoring project which is mandated by the
permits. That ten thousand dollars only subsidizes what we do for
this county in sea turtle monitoring. We have a full-time staff
member, our senior biologist, David Addison, who works almost strictly
just with the sea turtles throughout the year, as well as during six
to nine months of sea turtle nesting.
In the season when we're doing reports afterwards, we have four
college interns who are paid at the minimum wage hourly rate as well
as getting housing and that's worth about ten thousand dollars per
intern. That's forty thousand dollars, and with the biologist's
salary, it probably comes close to a hundred thousand dollars of
benefit that we're doing in sea turtle monitoring and sea turtle
projects in this county and we're doing it not just on the City of
Naples beach but on Keewaydin and throughout the county as well, so
we're giving a lot more than we're getting and if you want to talk
about in the budget time of contracts and stuff, it's going to cost
you a lot more than ten thousand dollars to do what we do if we really
charged you for what we do, but we're doing it for the county and
because our members like to give the money for us to do that, so I
just wanted to kind of clarify that. We do spend a lot more than,
than the ten thousand dollars.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Do you think the Conservancy could do the
entire county for less than a hundred and twenty-six grand?
MR. SIMONIK: I can't answer that question, but we can talk about
it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd like for us to talk about it. I think
it would make a lot of sense.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
MR. LEINWEBER: I'm Judy Leinweber, and from the looks of it, I
guess the county's going to be stuck with this price tag and like
Michael said, it's for the good of the county. Well, if it's for the
good of the county, instead of just monitoring the sea turtles in the
city limits, make them do it county wide. That's all I have to say.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Okay. Do we have a direction or
motion on Item 8(E)(4)?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes. I move to approve it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We do have a motion for approval, okay. Do we
have a second?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: After we -- do we have the opportunity to
reduce this amount at budget time if we find a way to save money on
it?
MR. LORENZ: Sure.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. McNees is indicating yes.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I mean this amount of money could be
reduced.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So we have a motion to approve up to one
hundred and twenty-six thousand four hundred and four dollars for sea
turtle monitoring.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
ALL COMMISSIONERS:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
(No response.)
And a second. Any discussion?
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Aye.
Opposed?
Item #9A
RECOHMENDATION TO ACCEPT A SETTLEMENT PROPOSAL IN WESTWIND CONTRACTING,
INC., V. COLLIR COUNTY, CASE NO. 95-3939-CA-01-TB, COLLIER COUNTY
CIRCUIT COURT - APPROVED; STAFF DIRECTED TO PREPARE LIST OF CORRECTIVE
ACTION TAKEN
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Lorenz. Item (9)(A),
recommendation to accept a settlement proposal in Westwind
Contracting. Again, I'd like to remind everyone that discussion of
settlement proposals, we've all had individual presentations by the
office of the county attorney on this. We do not want to try the
particulars of the case here today in this forum. What I ask Mr.
Pettit to do is make a brief presentation and then if the board has
questions, proceed in that manner. Mr. Pettit?
MR. PETTIT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, commissioners. Good
morning. My name is Mike Pettit from the county attorney's office,
assistant county attorney. I'm here on this item. Apropos of your
introductory comments, I do see one of our adversary counsel here to
observe the proceedings. I'll be brief.
This matter arose back on March 31, 1994 when the county received
a substantial claim from a road contractor demanding compensation of
approximately 1.8 million dollars. There were efforts made to
negotiate with that contractor. County staff and county attorney's
office felt that the contractor's position was unreasonable at that
time for purposes of negotiation and a suit was filed eventually by
the contractor. The county then brought in third party defendants.
At least one of those third party defendants brought in a fourth party
defendant. Discovery went forward and eventually the contractor made
a proposal to resolve all matters for eight hundred thousand dollars
and our office has reviewed that proposal and believes that it's not
unreasonable for the board to consider that settlement at this time.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'll give the board the benefit of a comment I
made to Mr. Pettit. We don't have a history of jumping at settlements
as a board and I don't want my comments to be construed in any way as
indicating that the county is at fault in this matter, but should the
county approve this settlement proposal, Mr. Pettit and our counsel
assured me that they could provide this board with a list of itemized
areas in which they contributed to the reason we have a settlement
proposal in front of us today.
My problem is that so many times if we approve a settlement, it's
as if the problem goes away and we're done with it and yet the
conditions that may have existed either within our staff or in our
contracting procedures that caused it to happen are not addressed, so
I'll just ask the board that should any member of this board wish to
approve this settlement proposal, that we require the county
attorney's office to provide us and the county manager with a list of
areas that contributed to the reasons for that and those areas should
be addressed in writing back to the board to make sure they don't
happen again. I think that type of corrective action is necessary if
we approve a settlement agreement today.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I'll move approval based on that condition.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion and a second. Is there any
discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, I'll call the question. All
those in favor, signify by saying aye.
ALL COMMISSIONERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries unanimously. Mr. Pettit, thank
you very much.
MR. PETTIT: Thank you.
Item #9B
REPORT TO THE BOARD ON THE WILDERNESS ISSUE - DISCUSSED
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And we'll look forward to, Mr. HcNees, your
office receiving correspondence on this matter and we are going to
want to see what corrective action will be taken in those areas of
concern. Thank you. Item 9(B), report on the Wilderness issue. Mr.
Wilderness, Commissioner Constantine?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Uh-huh. Mr. Weigel.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. WEIGEL: No alliteration intended, I'm sure. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman and commissioners. In the two weeks since the board directed
our office to review and report back on the Wilderness, we have had an
opportunity to review anew some of the ordinance and statutory
considerations of the Wilderness and annexation which is a part of the
element of discussion with the city and even other parties.
With you -- with us today is an attorney, Mr. Michael Witt of the
firm of Becket & Poliakoff who wishes to address you on behalf of
certain property owners within the Wilderness area which is subject to
annexation and I might toss it up to the board that maybe some of your
questions to me and my response may certainly occur after he speaks,
but in any event, I'll tell you right now that, of course, the
annexation procedure is a statutorily provided for procedure and a
landowner may petition a municipality for annexation. Purportedly
this is what has occurred. There are some questions of fact
concerning the interest that petitioned the municipality, being City
of Naples for, for annexation.
The land at issue includes part of an entire PUD project known as
the Wilderness which, of course, up to this point has been a Collier
County approved development. With that background and it's probably
self evident, perhaps already known by everyone, I wanted to at least
make that statement for the record right here. The City of Naples has
had, to my understanding, no direct contact or there's been no
direction to me as county attorney to work with the City of Naples.
However, you may find after some of the discussion, I believe, by Mr.
Witt, that you may want to direct me or through some mechanism of
personnel, start a more formal discussion with either staff or the
council, the City of Naples, in this regard.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Weigel, I appreciate your comments, but
procedurally, I have a difficulty with this. We asked your office to
investigate whether or not the county had, I'll just use the term, an
axe to grind in this issue. Do we have a real land value interest?
Is there a material effect to the county in this proposed annexation
that we need to be aware of? What I don't want is to bring in outside
parties that represent other individuals other than Collier County to
broaden this discussion to a question of annexation. MR. WEIGEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'm a little concerned about that.
MR. WEIGEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I guess I need to know, is it your opinion
that we have an interest in this matter that needs to be represented
in some form?
MR. WEIGEL: I appreciate that question and obliquely I was
attempting to set the framework for you to actually ask that question
and, that is, the interest of the county may be twofold. One is does
the county have a legal interest, is there a legal problem that the
county attorney's looking into? Secondly, there is a question which
is being raised and which I have been apprised of by correspondence
and with a meeting that our office has had with Mr. Witt on behalf of
the landowners within this Wilderness PUD area, that they are raising
a question which may be more policy and clinical and that is that the
residents of heretofore county property, county jurisdictional
property would wish that the county assist them or take a position
addressing what have been described as procedural issues that were
created by the city's process itself.
Now, the county neither statutorily and historically has never
involved itself with municipal annexation processes that have occurred
within the county and part of the question before us today is if in
fact, with additional investigation, if directed by this board, the
county attorney could in fact inform you, either informally or
formally, that we believed or did not believe that there were
procedural, ergo legal, deficiencies in the annexation process of the
city, does that give rise to the county wishing to address that with
the city, in either an informal or a formal basis, or the county, I
think, itself through the board, maybe as a policy decision, would
have to determine whether there is a citizen interest of those persons
living within the PUD that we wish to attempt to address by involving
ourselves in the procedural aspects of the city's annexation process.
Beyond that, the county's PUD, of course, is in -- is a zoning
document. It has requirements within that document. It's one of the
oldest PUDs in the county, but within that document, does have
requirements that for certain future developments of parcels,
including the proposed annexed parcel, that it would have to interact
with the county for certain approvals.
The state law provides that upon annexation, the current zoning
and jurisdictional requirements of the prior zoning, the current
zoning still exists until the city -- until approximately six months
and the city has adopted amendments to its comprehensive plan. There
is another -- there is an issue that has been raised, not by the
county but by the sources of information that have been brought to my
attention in these last two weeks, that there are issues concerning
the city's addressing its own comprehensive plan.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And that's really the crux of the
question is the last part. The first two-thirds of that, I don't know
that we need to get into being advocates for anyone in a dispute like
this. The last part is the, is the only point I really want to try to
get some answers on and that is if there's something violating or
appearing to violate a county PUD or if there are questions about
that, that's something we need to look at and if that's the case,
sure, we need to get involved. The first two-thirds of what you just
outlined is probably not appropriate for us to be involved in.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Let's cut to the chase on that question. The
PUD doesn't allow for I believe it's a height limitation that a
hotelier is looking for.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yet the city would if it's annexed and comp
plan amended. That's my understanding, so I guess if it's annexed
properly in accordance with, with state statutes, our authority is
diminished by that annexation and the authority then switches to the
City of Naples should they adopt their comp plan amendment within six
months. Is that correct?
MR. WEIGEL: That is correct, yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: If that first step has occurred, according to
state statutes, in other words, the process for annexation, then we no
longer have jurisdiction or authority on the Wilderness PUD. That's
my understanding and I don't know that it takes a lot of work to
arrive at either that decision or one similar to it. Do we have these
same issues in Bear's Paw because there was no change in land use
being --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's the difference.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Bear's Paw, there was no change in land use
being proposed?
MR. WEIGEL: Correct.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Okay. It sounds to me, and correct me
if I'm wrong, that if the annexation occurs, according to state
statute, that our ability to defend previous zoning or to champion
previous zoning constraints is eliminated.
MR. WEIGEL: I think that is essentially the case, yes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I think I hear that a majority of the
board is not interested in getting into the challenge process on
whether or not the procedures that the, you know, city council
followed were correct.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I mean we want to make sure that county
residents aren't duped into annexation -- COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- in any way, shape or form. I think that
would be of concern and that --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Right, and the present question that
you just asked is the crux to the whole thing. If the board loses its
authority or loses what was initially done as part of the PUD, we
don't need to be involved. If we still had some authority to enforce
what the original PUD had, maybe that's something worth looking at.
You just said we will, we will lose that authority, so I think that
really is --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It sort of closes the discussion.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Case closed.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: As far as I'm concerned, it does.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Is there anything in the summary that we are
discussing, Mr. Weigel, that you see factually incorrect?
MR. WEIGEL: I don't think so. Miss Student was here.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: She's here.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: This is a single owner parcel in question,
isn't it?
MR. WEIGEL: Well, that's part of the question.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Oh, we don't know that, either.
MS. STUDENT: That is part of the question. I don't know that I
really have anything --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Name?
MS. STUDENT: -- to add except in the PUD documents --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Name?
MS. STUDENT: Oh. Marjorie Student again, assistant county
attorney, for the record. In the PUD document, again, it refers to
tract nine and it's very general language. It doesn't really set up a
land use. It says it'll come back to the board for whatever land use
and references an old zoning procedure that staff nor I are quite sure
exactly what it means to complete development plans, but it does
require a public hearing on things like drainage and parking and the
typical things that you look at will be reviewed. I think at times
past, staff has opined that for purposes of the county's comp plan, a
hotel use at a density of sixteen units an acre could go in there
consistent with a comp plan that is not in the PUD document that would
have to come back to you by amendment, so.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Do we have a speaker?
MR. MCNEES: You do have Michael Witt registered to speak.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. WITT: Morning, Mr. Chairman, commissioners. For the record,
my name is Michael Witt. I'm an attorney with Becket & Poliakoff. We
represent the Wilderness Country Club Association.
The association recently, just to let you all know, through its
board of directors had a meeting and authorized our firm to initiate
legal action against the City of Naples relative to the annexation
ordinance that was recently adopted as well as the resolution
approving the development agreement. I had a meeting recently with
Marjorie Student and have spoken with, with Mr. Weigel. I provided
some initial information at least on what our concerns are relative to
this project.
I want to make clear for the board, we are not asking the board
to fight our fight for us. We are not asking the board to take sides,
so to speak, in this issue on behalf of the residents at Wilderness
Country Club. My feeling is, after having become involved in this and
reviewed the issues, is that the county does have a stake in the
outcome of the litigation that is imminent and that's going to be
filed very soon and that is because of the existing PUD on the
property. If the annexation was not proper by the city and if there
are procedural and substantive problems with the approval of the
development agreement which we, we have allegations that that is wrong
as well, this property would still be governed by the existing PUD.
The reason that I mentioned to both Ms. Student and Mr. Weigel
the concerns of the residents, I mean you do have county
residents at the Wilderness Country Club that are being negatively
impacted by this annexation by the city. You know, that's, that's
only brought up, kind of stating the obvious for you all to know,
that, to me, is another reason that you all may want to consider as
far as why the county would want to commit the resources of the county
attorney's office to get, to get involved. The county didn't cause
the problem here. Wilderness Country Club didn't cause the problem.
It's really the actions by the, by the City of Naples. I understand
from reading the press and seeing the news reports, there are some
other issues now between the county and city, particularly the beach
parking, and I know that you all have to work sometimes in close
relationships with one another and, like I said, we're not asking the
county commission to put on black robes, so to speak, and make any
judgment call as far as who they think is right or wrong.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What are you asking us to do?
MR. WITT: What we are asking you to do is to become involved in
the litigation that's going to be filed.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: To sue the city?
MR. WITT: No, no, no, no. Simply as an interested party, almost
what I have discussed with Mr. Weigel that happens a lot of times in
appeals that are filed and you have to understand the nature of the
action that's being filed is what is called a certiorari action which
is almost like a quasi appeal, if you will, and what we're asking the
county to do is almost file what's called an amicus curiae type brief
or something almost like a friend of the Court where you have a stake
in the outcome of this.
If we are right, and we're not asking you to make any judgments
or to get on our side and say one way or another, but if we are right,
the county has some -- is impacted by the decision thatws going to be
made by the Court in this case because what happens if we are right
and you donwt have a proper annexation and you donwt have a proper
development agreement?
What happens if the developer is out there now that may be
starting construction on this project, you know, during the interim
that this litigation is pending? You know, there, there are variables
that we just donwt know and wewre not asking the county to commit, you
know, vast financial resources and get embroiled in whatws going to be
a long protracted litigation, but I believe that the county commission
needs to consult with the, with the county attorney on this issue and
thatws, thatws all wewre asking. Youwre going to receive your advice
from the county attorney. Nobody likes litigation, you know. My, my
client doesnlt and I know that you donlt, but --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Witt, that purpose has been served by
todayls hearing. We have consulted with our county attorney and the
case in which you cite where the county has an interest, the what-ifls
that you cite, our role becomes very, very clear if any of those
what-ifls play out. If construction has begun on a piece of property
that, in effect, the annexation is not appropriate and it falls back
to the county, construction will have to halt until county inspectors
investigate and make sure that they are in compliance, full compliance
with the zoning and county regulations. If they are not, itill be up
to them to tear it down, reconstruct it, change it, conform it
however.
What you are, in essence, asking this board to do is to become
involved in what I call the cityls effort to cherry pick it. They go
out, they look at areas that are advantageous to the city to annex,
they annex them to their advantage, and I donlt like cherry picking.
I mean their borders are by no means even. There are areas that have
been avoided by the city in annexation that are not as attractive as
some that they have reached out to, to draw in. Now, those are all
done mutual by the city and the residents, so welre not going to stop
that no matter how much it seems a little unfair, but thatls the only
interest we have here is that they have decided that there is a site
that they think should be a part of the city and they have pursued
that and whether they do it correct or not is between the affected
party and them.
We are not the affected party here per se, so itls -- I donlt
have the -- Iim not of the opinion to direct the county attorney to
become anymore involved in this than we are. MR. WEIGEL: Me neither.
CHAIRNLAN HANCOCK: However, should, should the annexation prove
or should your case prove the annexation is not correct, we will take
whatever is necessary under our authority to enforce the zoning
regulations on the property that is in the best interest of our
residents.
COMMISSIONER MACIKIE: I agree with that. My only -- I do just
want to temper it a little bit by telling you that the City of Naples
didnlt go out, look, and ask this property owner to annex into the
city.
CHAIRNLAN HANCOCK: Oh, I know.
COMMISSIONER MACIKIE: This was an application that was made by
the property owner, so the cherry picking, I think the picking is done
by the property owner, not by the City of Naples going out and
pursuing valuable pieces of property.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: This is perry chicking.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: This is perry chicking. I like that.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Either way, the appearance is quite obvious if
you look at the boundaries of the city, so that difference of opinion
there. Thank you. Mr. Weigel, is there anything further to add on
this matter?
MR. WEIGEL: I don't think so. Thank you.
Item #10A
RESOLUTION 97-230, APPOINTING BYRON J. HEADE, BRENDA C. FOGEL, STEVEN
H. BIGELOW AND JAN H. STEVENS TO THE ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY TECHNICAL
ADVISORY BOARD - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. We'll move on to number 10(A),
appointment of members to the Environmental Policy Technical Advisory
Board. I'd like to point out to the members of the board that the
staff that informed this is not correct. Ms. Filson made a mistake.
We all want to take note of that. It should say to appoint four
members. Is that correct, Ms. Filson? MS. FILSON: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. This is your second mistake in three
years. One more and you're out of here.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I have to disagree with
the committee recommendation where they select one of those and tell
us to readvertise. I think that's unfair to the people willing to
offer their time and I'll make a suggestion we appoint all four of the
applicants.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and second. Any discussion on the
motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Do we have anyone registered on this?
MR. HCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
ALL COMMISSIONERS:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
10(B), discussion --
COMHISSIONER BERRY:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Aye.
Opposed?
Seeing none, motion carries unanimously.
Wait a minute.
-- regarding membership on the Juvenile
Item
Justice Council. Sorry, Hs. Filson, you had something?
MS. FILSON: Normally when we appoint members for six months or
under, we appoint them for that time plus full term. We do like to
appoint because two of the experts' dates are September 30, 1997.
Would you like them to serve the five months and then come back before
the board?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Did the motion make or anticipate our normal
policy of appointing for the remainder of the expired term plus an
additional term?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: If it's only for five months, I think,
sure, with just --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yes, I did.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Oh, you were the motion maker. I'm sorry.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I was the second maker, but that's what I
anticipated.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. So it's clarified then that, yes,
that's -- we'll follow that same policy.
MS. FILSON: Thank you.
Item #10B
DISCUSSION RE HEHBERSHIP ON THE JUVENILE JUSTICE COUNCIL - COHMISSIONER
HAC'KIE TO SERVE AS BCC MEMBER
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Next is something I added, discussion
regarding membership on the Juvenile Justice Council. It's been
requested that a member of this board or an appointed member --or an
appointee serve on the Juvenile Justice Council. The reason I put it
on the agenda is that I've got a very full plate. I wanted to ask if
there are any members of the commission that would, would feel --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, I'd be happy to serve. I'll tell
you that I've also recently agreed to serve on the Domestic Violence
Council and I do that because I'm happy to serve on both of them, but
you guys already know that I'm big supporters of both of those issues
and I wonder if it might be better for somebody who's not as involved
in those two issues to serve and get a little more educated about it
and perhaps learn more about it and be more informed. I'm happy to
serve on both of those but --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Or offer information that may have benefit to
the council.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Could go the other way.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Could go the -- absolutely.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: My gosh.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So I'd be preaching to the choir if I were
there. Perhaps one of you guys will want to, you know --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Be devil's advocate?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Does any other member wish to serve on the
Juvenile Justice Council?
COHMISSIONER BERRY:
board, I served for --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
COHMISSIONER BERRY:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
COHMISSIONER BERRY:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
I've served. When I was on the school
Commissioner Berry -- In fact --
-- has no interest.
-- I'm an honorary director.
Honorary director. Commissioner Norris or
Constantine, do you have a desire to serve on it or --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No, thank you. Appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Commissioner Mac'Kie, congratulations.
Appointment by default.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Happy to do it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Actually, we -- let the record reflect that
all members supported Commissioner Mac'Kie in her appointment to the
council.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: We sure did.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Her willingness.
Item #10D
ERROR OF TRANSMITTAL REGARDING THE GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN - STAFF
DIRECTED TO TRANSMIT ORIGINALLY INTENDED PLAN
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Item 10(C) has already been discussed. Item
10(D), Commissioner Constantine, an add-on regarding the error in
transmittal on our Growth Management Plan amendments.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Sure. I think we're all aware there
was an error in transmittal. From what I read in our daily
newspaper --
COMMISSIONER BERRY: That's a reliable source.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Very reliable source. The suggestion
was that, oh, we'll have an opportunity to change that in October
anyway. I would, I'm asking you is there some reason why we can't
correct our error now before it gets anywhere along in the process and
send a letter to all the places that GMP goes and say, gosh, we made a
mistake, please correct it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, there's also, if I can just add in
there, there's a memo from Vince to us adding this onto next, excuse
me, next week's agenda offering us the option of sending out faxes. I
just wonder if we couldn't just do that today instead of waiting for
next week's agenda.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Actually, I think Mr. Weigel will tell us that
it should be on a regularly advertised agenda since it is correcting
something that we discussed at length. Would that be correct, Mr.
Weigel, it'd be advisable to have it on an agenda next week as opposed
to making a decision today on an unadvertised position?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Before we let any staff member speak,
I have a question along those lines.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Could we all just ask questions --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And any answers.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- and you have to write them down?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: If we need to, that's fine. I'm not
sure why. If the board set a specific direction and it was simply a
staff error that didn't set it off that way and/or a misunderstanding,
then I'm not sure why we need to have an advertised public hearing --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- to make sure it's --
MR. MCNEES: I'll, I'll take the blame for that one. It was my
thinking, in talking to Vince, that given the sensitivity of this
issue and given the appearance that we were trying to somehow sneak
through a change to what you had formally by motion apparently adopted
to the Growth Management Plan --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Now, who created that appearance?
MR. MCNEES: -- that we would, that we would put it on a regular
agenda so it would be open and clear where we were headed. If y'all
feel like it's appropriate, from our point of view, to direct that
today --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I just think the sooner the better.
MR. MCNEES: -- we'd be happy to.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Mr. Weigel, is there a need, a need to
have it on next week's agenda or can we give that direction to staff
today to make that clarification?
MR. WEIGEL: I think the direction you're attempting, in fact,
and indeed are giving is to do what you've intended to be done in the
first place and so I don't think that you'll have that absolute
requirement to bring it to --
COMMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Lawyers love this term, scrivener's error.
We have a scrivener's error. Let's correct it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So does the board then wish to give direction
to Mr. Cautero and his staff to transmit to the state --COMMISSIONER
NORRIS: So moved.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- what was originally intended?
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Motion and second.
of doing what we said we're going to do, say aye.
ALL COMHISSIONERS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Cautero. Fine presentation.
are now to public comment. Do I have any speakers registered, Mr.
McNees?
MR. MCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Glory be. We are on to public hearings.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Let the record reflect glory be.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: A1 didn't show up.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: It's a very sacred time.
All those in favor
We
Item #13A1
RESOLUTION 97-231, RE PETITION CU-97-5, MILES SCOFIELD, REPRESENTING
CRAIG & KARLA SIEBERT REQUESTING CONDITIONAL USE OF THE RSF-3 DISTRICT
TO ALLOW FOR A BOAT HOUSE FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 291 SEABREEZE AVENUE
IN CONNORS VANDERBILT BEACH SUBDIVISION - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Just kidding. We love to hear from all of
you, just not several times a day. Item 13(A)(1), advertised public
hearings, Petition CU-97-5, Mr. -- or Dr. Badamtchian. I've had a
little problem with my elbow. Can you help me with that or --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: No. Wrong kind of doctor.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Just checking.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I've got the sniffles. I need a
prescription. Never mind.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Just teasing. We kid you 'cause we like you.
What do we have this morning?
DR. BADAMTCHIAN: Good morning, Chairman. I'm Chahran from
Planning Services Staff. This is a boathouse request to be located on
Seabreeze Avenue in Connots Vanderbilt Beach subdivision. The
boathouse will be eleven feet tall, will protrude twenty feet into the
waterway and will be thirty feet wide.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Badamtchian, I know you've waited all
morning to make this fine presentation, but this boatdock would -- or
this boathouse would extend out into an open body of water, not a
canal?
DR. BADAMTCHIAN: Yes, sir. It is an open body of water,
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Are there any letters or complaints --
DR. BADAMTCHIAN: No, there are not.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- from any adjacent property owners?
DR. BADAMTCHIAN: No.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Absolutely none?
DR. BADAMTCHIAN: The planning commission heard this and
unanimously granted approval.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Are you sure about that?
DR. BADAMTCHIAN: Because at the --
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I need to see the map. That does not
show --
DR. BADAMTCHIAN: It's at the mouth of the canal, actually. It's
not at --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: It's, it's on the lagoon side or the canal
side?
DR. BADAMTCHIAN:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
DR. BADAMTCHIAN:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
DR. BADAMTCHIAN:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
It's on the canal side.
Oh, it is on the canal side?
Yes.
Okay. What's the width of that canal?
It's over one hundred feet wide.
Okay. Let me ask, just to expedite things,
Mr. Scofield, do you have -- I believe the property owner right next
to this one has a boatdock of the exact same proportion?
DR. BADAMTCHIAN: They have a boatdock, yes. They don't have a
boathouse. There are several boathouses within the vicinity of this
proposed boathouse, though.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Oh, I'm sorry. I thought this was out
extending into the open body of water. I didn't realize it was on a
canal. We have new criteria that are coming forward on boathouses; is
that correct?
DR. BADAMTCHIAN: Correct. I reviewed this and this fully
complies with our criteria, our proposed criteria for the boathouses,
for the proposed boathouse requirements.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Mr. Scofield, do you have anything to
add on this petition?
MR. SCOFIELD: Miles Scofield for the record. No, I don't. If
you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer them.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Questions from members of the board?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let me just make sure I understand the
facts. So there's no objection, the planning board recommends it, it
meets the upcoming criteria, and the next door neighbor has a boatdock
that extends out, too?
MR. SCOFIELD: The next neighbor, yeah, does not have a
boathouse --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But a boatdock.
MR. SCOFIELD: -- but a boatdock.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: But a dock that extends?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Seeing none, I'll close the public
hearing.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Motion approved.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
ALL COMMISSIONERS:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
Scofield. We are to --
Motion and a second. Any discussion?
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Aye.
Opposed?
Motion carries unanimously. Thank you, Mr.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: A question. When we get these new
boathouse criteria, are we still going to have to approve these on a
case by case basis?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. I'll give you the example. The
physical appearance of some of them, there's one that was built in
Vanderbilt Beach that has a wooden deck on it on the top, so it's like
having a second floor that they have barbecues on and stuff. It's a
little, you know -- I mean some of them can get kind of crazy.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It just seems like we could --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Great idea.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: It's a great idea.
MR. SCOFIELD: They said that's going to be taken out of here to
the planning commission.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Good.
MR. ARNOLD: Wayne Arnold, Planning Services Director. If I
might, staff had brought forward some proposed changes to the way we
look at boathouses. They don't fit very nicely into the criteria for
conditional uses. We had proposed some separate criteria for review
for those. After review by the planning commission, planning
commission had directed us to go back and look at those proposed
modifications and they have endorsed a procedure that would
essentially mirror that used in the boatdock extension process with
some other criteria, but they would not come to the Board of County
Commissioners under their proposal that we're bringing to you. We
will, as we always do, bring forward staff's initial recommendation as
well as what the planning commission asked, asked to forward as well.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Are you saying, Mr. Arnold, then, that the
same process for appeal would apply -- MR. ARNOLD: Yes, it would
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: -- so that if there were some disgruntled
adjoining property owners, they could bring it in on appeal within
thirty days?
MR. ARNOLD: Correct.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Good.
MR. ARNOLD: You'll see that at the end of the month.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you.
Item #14A
FIRST ANNIVERSARY CELEBRATION OF MIDNIGHT BASKETBALL PROGRAM
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We are at BCC communications. Commissioner
Hac'Kie?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Nothing today.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Norris?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: No.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry?
COHMISSIONER BERRY: No.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Two items, one, I need to brag. Last
night my team won its second consecutive parks and recreation
three-on-three basketball championship and, second, also --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The crowd goes wild.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- basketball related, this weekend is
the first anniversary celebration of the midnight basketball program
which has proven to be very successful. Mr. Dunnuck was in a couple
of weeks ago. We had Ford Motor Company give six thousand again this
year, as you know. Cool Cruisers raised a couple of thousand, so a
wonderful program that is not hitting up the taxpayer. I want to
invite each of you to play. We're going to have a little --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Could you say that again? A wonderful program
that's what?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Not hitting up the taxpayer.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Thank you.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Not hitting up the taxpayer. We're
going to have a celebrity versus the kids game this weekend and we
want to invite each of you to suit up and play if you want, but I have
to acknowledge Commissioner Hancock was the first draft, first draft
choice out of all of you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Otherwise known as the kids beating up on the
celebrity game.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah. Mr. HcNees will be playing with
us and a few others and we hope to give them a run for their money.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So we got three point shooter, low post.
Basically, we need a working forward then?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Rough and tumble, that's you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: How are you, how are you staffed on
cheerleaders?
COHMISSIONER BERRY: That's what I was going to ask you.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: So regardless of whether you suit up,
we hope you'll come out. Great program and it should be a fun night
Saturday. They got a lot going on.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to try and make
it. It sounds like a lot of fun, good event. Thank you for your
information and your bragging. We appreciate them both.
Item #14B
UPDATE ON COUNTY MANAGER CONTRACT
One thing I want to bring everyone up to speed on is the status
of the county manager contract. I provided Mr. Weigel yesterday with,
with information for the formation of an initial draft. He will have
that draft completed, my guess is tomorrow or Thursday. Mr. Weigel,
am I speaking out of school there?
MR. WEIGEL: Just slightly. We'll have it today or tomorrow
morning at the latest, I think.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. At which point it'll be sent to Mr.
Fernandez for his review and comment and I may still revise what I see
from the county attorney before sending it to Mr. Fernandez. To date,
I had a discussion with him. He came to town this past weekend with
his family. I met with him Friday morning. We talked about elements
of the contract that he is looking for.
I laid down some of the ideas that I had. I'll say that, that
there are, neither one of us is probably going to get everything we're
looking for in an agreed upon contract. That's usually the case.
What will happen here, as everyone knows, is regardless of what Mr.
Fernandez agrees to, it takes this entire board to approve that
contract and that will occur, it is my hope, as soon as one week from
today, no later than two weeks from today. It depends on the time Mr.
Fernandez needs to review the contract and how much actual negotiation
goes on between us. One thing he and I agreed upon is we will not
negotiate this contract through the media. I will not go to the paper
and say these are the sticking points. He will not do the same. They
are obviously privy to all information and correspondence
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- maintain accuracy.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yeah. I don't, I don't want a position being
taken by me on this until the negotiations are complete and at which
point I'll have all the comment in the world. I've told the
representatives of the paper that, but again, all the information is
theirs for their perusal, but I will not be commenting on those
negotiations until they are complete. That's just a position I've
taken. That's something Mr. Fernandez and I felt was most conducive
to a positive agreement. Is there any other comment or question on
that?
COHMISSIONER BERRY: No, but I do have another comment. I failed
to mention this. All of us received a big bag of vegetables today. I
received some information about those yesterday. Those were sent over
by Mrs. O'Quinn from Immokalee by way of Denise Blanton, so that's
where the things came from.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you to Mrs. O'Quinn.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: I just want to mention that's on behalf of
the farming agri business group out in the Immokalee area.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Super. Mr. Weigel, anything additional?
MR. WEIGEL: No, thank you.
Item #15A
INTRODUCTION OF EDGAR D. ISCHLER, PUBLIC WORKS ADMINISTRATOR
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. HcNees?
MR. HCNEES: I have one item. If Mr. Ilschner would come to the
microphone, I'd like to introduce to you your new public works
administrator who didn't get to address you today. Edgar D. Ilschner,
Junior, comes to us from the great state of Texas and we are ecstatic
to have him on board. He's hit the ground running and I wanted to
take a moment to introduce him to you this morning.
MR. ILSCHNER: Mr. Chairman, members of the commission, let me
first state that I am just overjoyed to be in the great state of
Florida, but most particularly in the beautiful county of Collier,
Collier County. I look forward to working with you, this board, in
achieving the programs that you establish to meet the needs of the
citizens of Collier County, working with the county manager's office
and our staff to accomplish those and I stand ready to assist each of
you in any way that I can.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Ilschner, thank you and welcome and we
happen to think our side of the Gulf is a little prettier, but the
area you come from is fantastic. We hope you'll grow to love this
area as much, if not more, and we appreciate having you on board.
MR. ILSCHNER: Thank you very much. Look forward to working with
you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. McNees, anything else?
MR. MCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We are adjourned.
Commissioner Constantine moved, seconded by Commissioner Berry
and carried unanimously, that the following items under the
Consent Agenda be approved and/or adopted:
Item #16A1
AUTHORIZATION FOR THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN AND CERTIFY TO THE CORRECTNESS
OF THE COMPUTER-GENERATED CENSUS MAPS AND SIGN THE BOUNDARY AND
ANNEXATION SURVEY
Item #16A2
RESOLUTION 97-225 APPROVING LEASE AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND
NORTH NAPLES FIRE CONTROL AND RESCUE DISTRICT FOR UTILIZATION OF AN
OFFICE AT THE COLLIER COUNTY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES BUILDING
Item #16B1 - Deleted
Item #1682
SPEED LIHIT CHANGE TO CREECH ROAD IN CONFORHANCE WITH BOARD ACTION ON
8/6/96 AND RESOLUTION 96-340 ALLOWING RESIDENTIAL ROADWAY SPEED LIMIT
REDUCTIONS TO TWENTY FIVE MILES PER HOUR (25 HPH)
Item #1683
ACCESS EASEHENT APPURTENANT TO HR. AND HRS. DEAN WEBB GRANTING ACCESS
TO A LOT LOCATED IN SECTION 4, TOWNSHIP 51 SOUTH, RANGE 26 EAST, A/K/A
THE C-4 CANAL, PRICE STREET OUTFASLL, OWNED BY COLLIER COUNTY ON BEHALF
OF THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT
Item #1684
ACCEPTANCE OF DRAINAGE EASEMENT FROM THREE (3) PROPERY OWNERS LOCATED
IN GUILFORD ACRES, A SUBDIVISION, AS RECORDED IN PLAT BOOK 3, PAGE 59
Item #1685
CHANGES TO THE 1997 WASTE TIRE GRANT BUDGET AND APPROPRIATE BUDGET
AMENDMENTS
Item #1686
AUTHORIZATION TO ACQUIRE A PARCEL OF RIGHT-OF-WAY FOR NAPLES BOULEVARD
(F/K/A EDGEWOOD DRIVE); APPROVAL OF BUDGET AMENDMENT TO FUND THE
RIGHT-OF-WAY PURCHASE; AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE RIGHT-OF-WAY FOR THE
PURPOSE OF RECORDING SAME IN THE PUBLIC RECORDS
Item #1687
PETITION TH-96-020 FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT PROGRAM TO
CALM TRAFFIC ON POMPEl LANE LOCATED BETWEEN GOODLETTE-FRANK ROAD AND
CASTELLO DRIVE
Item #1688
RESOLUTION 97-226 DESIGNATING THE PUBLIC WORKS ADMINISTRATOR AS
AUTHORIZED OWNER SIGNEE FOR THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER-SEWER DISTRICT,
THE MARCO WATER AND SEWER DISTRICT AND THE GOODLAND WATER DISTRICT FOR
EXECUTION OF ROUTINE DOCUMENTS RELATED TO PUBLIC WORKS MATTERS
Item #16B9
CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT FOR REPAIR AND REHABILITATION OF THE HALDEHAN
CREEK A_MIL GATES, IN ACCORDANCE WITH BID NO. 97-2660 - AWARDED TO
MASTERS GROUP, INC. OF CLEWISTON FLORIDA; AND BID OF DOUGLAS N.
HIGGINS, INC. TO BE WITHDRAWN
Item #16B10
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO SEGREGATE PROFESSIONAL SERVICES COSTS ASSOCIATED
WITH THE SOUTH COUNTY REGIONAL WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITY (SCRWWTF)
THAT ARE ELIGIBLE FOR FUNDING THROUGH THE STATE REVOLVING FUND (SRF)
LOW-INTEREST LOAN PROGRAM
Item #16Bll
CHANGE ORDER NO. 1 TO WORK ORDER NO. JEI-FT-96-6, WITH JOHNSON
ENGINEERING UNDER THE TERMS OF THE ANNUAL PROFESSIONAL SERVICES
AGREEMENT CONTRACT #95-2422 FOR THE LIVINGSTON ROAD PROJECT - IN THE
A_MOUNT OF $7,800.00
Item #16B12- Deleted
Item #16B13
STIPULATED FINAL JUDGHENT FOR RIGHT-OF-WAY PARCEL NO. l17A FOR THE
VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD FOUR LANING PROJECT (CIE NO. 023) - STAFF TO
DEPOSIT $6,666.00 INTO THE COURT REGISTRY WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE DATE OF
THE FINAL JUDGMENT AND STAFF TO SUBMIT A FOLLOW UP RESOLUTION TO THE
BOARD FOR TRUCK WEIGHT LIMIT SIGNS ALONG PELICAN RIDGE BOULEVARD
Item #16B14
SUPPLEMENTAL AGREEMENT NO. 5 TO THE CONSULTING LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT
SERVICES AGREEMENT WITH HC GEE & ASSOCIATES, INC. FOR THE IHMOKALEE
BEAUTIFICATION H.S.T.U - IN THE A_MOUNT OF $20,000.00
Item #16B15
INITIATION OF DEVELOPMENT OF REGIONAL IMPACT (DRI) PROJECT FOR THE
COLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTER (CCGC) AND WORK ORDER #ABB-07 WITH
AGNOLI, BARBER AND BRUNDAGE, INC. FOR SURVEYING AND HAPPING SERVICES
Item #16B16
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO FUND CONSTRUCTION OF AN 8" BY-PASS WATER LINE
AROUND THE QUAIL CREEK WATER PLANT SITE
Item #16B17
AUTHORIZATION FOR THE CHAIRMAN TO EXECUTE AN ESCROW AGREEMENT FOR
PAYMENT OF FUNDS PREVIOUSLY AUTHORIZED ON FEBRUARY 25, 1997 FOR ORANGE
BLOSSOM DRIVE IMPROVEMENTS
Item #16C1
CONTRACT FOR MARCO ISLAND LIBRARY LANDSCAPE INSTALLATION AND
MAINTENANCE - AWARDED TO HANNULA LANDSCAPING COMPANY IN THE A_MOUNT OF
$141,013.00
Item #16C2
BUDGET A_MENDHENT TRANSFERRING FUNDS FROH REGIONAL PARK IHPACT FEES
RESERVES TO GOLDEN GATE COHMUNITY PARK COMPETITIVE POOL PROJECT FOR
IMPROVEMENTS AT THE GOLDEN GATE AQUATIC FACILITY
Item #16D1
LEASE AGREEHENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND EAST NAPLES FIRE CONTROL AND
RESCUE DISTRICT FOR SHARED USE OF STATION #23 LOCATED AT 7227 ISLE OF
CAPRI BOULEVARD
Item #16D2 - Moved to Item #8D2
Item #16D3
GRANT AGREEMENT #97CP-07-09-21-01-104 BETWEEN THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
COHMUNITY AFFAIRS AND COLLIER COUNTY FOR THE PURCHASE AND INSTALLATION
OF A RADIO TRANSMITTER AND BACK-UP POWER SUPPLY TO BROADCAST WEATHER
INFORMATION FROM THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE OFFICE-HIAMI
Item #16D4
MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING WITH WORKFORCE COUNCIL OF SOUTHWEST FLORIDA
FOR A SUHMER YOUTH PROGRAM
Item #16El
AUTHORIZATION FOR THE ADVERTISEMENT FOR THREE SUCCESSIVE WEEKS OF A
NOTICE OF CONSIDERATION FOR THE APPLICATION BY MARCO ISLAND CABLE, INC.
FOR A CATV FRANCHISE FOR A TIME CERTAIN PUBLIC HEARING ON JUNE 17, 1997
AT 1:00 P.M.
Item #16G1
CERTIFICATES OF CORRECTION TO THE TAX ROLLS AS PRESENTED BY THE
PROPERTY APPRAISER'S OFFICE
1995 Real Property
No. Dated
269, 272 03/07 & 4/16/97
1995 Tangible Personal Property
No. Dated
81 04/30/97
1996 Real Property
No. Dated
98
111-113
118-121
124-134
No.
70 & 72
Item #1662
1996 Tangible Personal Property
01/29/97
02/26/97
03/07/97
04/04 - 04/30/97
Dated
04/11 & 04/30/97
SATISFACTIONS OF LIEN FOR SERVICES OF THE PUBLIC DEFENDER
Item #1663
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE - FILED AND/OR REFERRED
The following miscellaneous correspondence as presented by the
Board of County Commissioners has been directed to the various
departments as indicated:
Item #16H1
RESOLUTION 97-227 BETWEEN THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS AND SPRINT
UNITED TELEPHONE PROVIDING FOR THE IMPOSITION AND COLLECTION OF A LOCAL
OPTION FEE FOR PROVISION OF ENHANCED EMERGENCY "911" TELEPHONE SERVICE
AND EQUIPMENT
Item #16H2
TO INFORM THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS OF THE CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT
COURT'S SETTLEMENT ARRANGEMENT IN THE MATTER OF DWIGHT E. BROCK AS
CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COLLIER COUNTY V. SECURITIES AMERICA,
INC., A/K/A UNITED SECURITIES AMERICA, INC., AND TO REQUEST THE BOARD
TO AUTHORIZE A GENERAL RELEASE FROM CLAIMS AGAINST SECURITIES AMERICA
REGARDING THIS MATTER
Item #1611
AUTHORIZATION FOR RECORDING THE RELEASE AGREEHENT, IHPELHENTING A
PORTION OF THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT FOR HIDEAWAY BEACH, PER PREVIOUS
ACTION TAKEN IN AGENDA ITEM 9A, SEPTEMBER 26, 1995
There being no further business for the good of the county, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 11:50 a.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
ATTEST:
DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK
TIMOTHY L. HANCOCK, CHAIRMAN
These minutes approved by the Board on
as presented or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING SERVICE
BY: ANGELA F. POTEET, RPR