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BCC Minutes 04/24/1997 S (County Manager Interviews: Fernandez, Ochs, and McNees) SPECIAL MEETING OF APRIL 24, 1997 OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS LET IT BE REHEHBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 1:30 p.m. in SPECIAL SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Timothy L. Hancock Timothy J. Constantine Pamela S. Hac'Kie Barbara B. Berry John C. Norris ALSO PRESENT: David C. Weigel, County Attorney. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Good afternoon. I'm going to call to order the Thursday, April 24th, 1997 special meeting of the Board of County Commissioners for the express purpose of interviewing and ultimately deciding on hopefully who our -- our next county manager will be. We have on the agenda an invocation, and since Mr. HcNees is usually our designated individual and he is not here at this point -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'll do it. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner MacKie, would you please -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sure. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- help us with an invocation and then follow up with the Pledge of Allegiance? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sure. Most gracious Heavenly Father, we thank you so much for this county in which we live and for these people who care so much about it that they are dedicated to doing the right thing. We pray for the candidates for this job. We pray for the decision makers. Your will will be done through us in your name. Amen. (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I wanted to be very clear, I had the opportunity to discuss with Mr. Weigel today, we've received phone calls regarding entertaining speakers on this matter today. One thing we -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Are we entertaining speakers? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: If we do, they get extra time. One thing we've been very clear about is that we have offered every piece of information we've had out to the public so that they can see what we have seen and have an opportunity, with the exception of the one-on-one interviews we've done to date, to have the benefit of all the information we've had. In that vein, if there are individuals here today that feel compelled to express their opinion on this matter, I believe it is most appropriate to allow that to happen. This is not a workshop, so the difference between -- well, it's -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Do you see people out -- that would be you, Chris, so come on down. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: There may be other people listening. But understand that the comments should be directed toward this board and our action. Lobbying of individuals is not necessarily the purpose, and questions of the candidates themselves will not be allowed. I don't think that -- that is appropriate. So unless there's additional further direction from the board, after item number three and before adjournment, I will open the floor to public speakers. We'll ask that you fill out a speaker slip in the hallway and submit it to Mr. Weigel if you care to do so. Is that fair with everyone on the board? COMMISSIONER BERRY: That's fair. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It works. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Mr. Salmon, if I could ask for your -- your presence up here to help walk us through the schedule of interviews. As I understand it, we have each one scheduled at half hour intervals; is that correct? Okay. If I could ask you to step up to the podium here. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Can I ask a question, Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Please do. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I understand that all three are standing by, so if -- if for some reason we're at 20 minutes instead of 30 minutes, I assume that doesn't make any difference, we can move on to the next? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Correct. I don't see that as a problem. However, if they're -- they do have allotted times or scheduled times, so I probably can't hold it against them if they're not here before that, but we have a half hour for each. Mr. Salmon, is there anything in particular at this point other than just staying on that schedule that you think the board would be -- would be helpful for the board to know? MR. SALMON: No, sir. For the record, Jerre Salmon, Human Resources staff. The three candidates are in the conference room waiting and the sound is turned off in there, and when they are finished here, they are free to -- to go wherever they want to go, but we've asked them to wait there until you summon them. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: In that respect, we have posted the interview times, and in accordance with sunshine law, if they wish to leave that room and come in and sit down at any point during these interviews, they have that right and that opportunity just as the -- the public does. If they wish to stay there and wait their turn for their interview, that also is their choice. And, of course, after their interview, they're welcome to stay and have a seat. So just in case there was any questions or concerns about that issue, I wanted to address that well in advance. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I have a question. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Norris? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Chairman, just a procedural matter. Is it -- is it a set matter that we will allow 30 minutes for each one or do we necessarily have to do 30 minutes if we don't -- and the reason I say this is, we've already interviewed them all personally. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Correct. No, I'm -- I'm going to -- the manner in which I anticipate going about this is asking each commissioner to address the candidate with a question if they wish. After all five have had the opportunity for a question, follow up will be allowed, and if it takes less than 30 minutes, so be it. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. That's fine. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Is that acceptable to everyone? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's great. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Mr. Salmon, why don't we go ahead and start with our first candidate. It's at this point we need the theme from Jeopardy in the background. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I wonder what that sounds like over -- it's probably hurting somebody's ear. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Sounds pretty bad from here. COMMISSIONER BERRY: Sounds like -- sounds like jerky turkeys to me. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: There you go. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That was the theme song I was looking for. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: You have coined a new phrase. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: It might sound better -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Even though -- even though we are waiting on someone to come in, the court reporter, poor lady is trying to get all of this on tape, so let's -- COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Lucky for us. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- let's be a little cognizant of that, not to mention -- am I going to have to recess this meeting in between candidates? COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Not a bad plan. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Order. This board will come to order. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: What was that, A1 Pacino? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Hello. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Good afternoon, Mr. Fernandez. As we are all aware, and -- and those of you watching will now be, this is Mr. Bob Fernandez, one of the three finalists for the position. Mr. Fernandez, the manner in which we are going to go through today's public interview is, each commissioner will have the opportunity to ask a question of you. After we go through all five commissioners, we'll come back to any follow up or other question board members may have, and of course, at the conclusion of that, if you have any questions of us, feel free to ask them at that time. MR. FERNANDEZ: Okay. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Why don't I start to my right. Commissioner Hac'Kie. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I -- I would just like to -- to, in a public forum, ask you a question that you and I had talked about yesterday in my office, and that is -- that is, having the experience that you have in -- in public administration is -- is a great positive. It also potentially is a negative from the perspective of what I call the bunker mentality, that you've been shot at, and frankly you've obviously been shot at and hit, you know. You've had a lot of -- of trouble with -- with dealing with public perception and dealing with boards of county commissioners, and I think the worst thing that we could have happen in this county is to have a county manager whose primary focus is in keeping his job and who -- who feels like the most important thing he has to do every day is stay low, don't get hit and -- and I just wonder if you would share with the group, you know, what we talked about in response to my concerns about your having a bunker mentality. MR. FERNANDEZ: Okay. What I said and what I'll say today is that that's -- that's really very true, and that develops when you -- when you are in public life for some period of time. I think a big determinate in how a manager responds to that pressure is the level of support he or she receives from the board of county commissioners. I also feel that I have demonstrated the ability to make difficult decisions, in spite of the kind of challenge that -- that the manager faces. Having to make -- having to make those decision in a public forum. I believe that I have to have good reasons for the decisions that I make, and those good reasons hold up no matter what the criticism is and -- and in fact, the situation that surrounded my leaving Alachua County involved my sticking to a decision that I made. I felt it was a right decision and I knew that it probably would mean my job if I stuck with that, and it did. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Well, I have a lot of respect for that and I appreciate that, because I do think that we're going to need some really strong leadership. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Commissioner Hac'Kie. Commissioner Norris? COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Fernandez, tell us what you would do to reevaluate all the various departments in Collier County; what would be your schedule, what would you be looking for, what would you be trying to accomplish as you become manager? MR. FERNANDEZ: First of all, I don't believe in coming in and turning the organization up side down and shaking it. I -- one of the things that's very attractive to me about this job is I have a lot of respect for Mr. Dotrill and I think there are a lot of things that have been done right in this county, frankly. But that doesn't mean that there's no room for improvement. I think as the responsibility of the county manager, there's an ongoing responsibility to be as efficient and productive as you possibly can be. I would envision taking a good critical look at all the departments, evaluating functions that are working properly and making decisions about any changes that may need to be made. But I really think the key to that, again, is the board of county commissioners. The dilemma that we have in public administration is that the -- the priorities that establish the programs that -- that constitute the base of what it is you do is a function of decisions that have been made over a series of years, a period of years. The question is, are those still important things? It may have been important to a board of county commissioners five or six years ago or longer and may no longer be important to this board of county commissioners. So I think the key to that is getting a good understanding from the board of county commissioners what's your priority, what -- what programs are important to you, which ones are not as important as they once were, and therefore need to be scaled back or maybe eliminated and giving clear direction to the manager to proceed with that. Within that, it's still the manager's job to -- to do the day-to-day job of monitoring performance and making sure that programs are operating as efficiently as they can and the money's not being wasted. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Fernandez, what -- what tools do you feel you have that you could apply to the issue of the balance between keeping the property tax rate low in Collier County while responding to the increasing demand for public services? MR. FERNANDEZ: One of the tools that I've used is taking a good critical look at expenditures. I'm one that believes that the budget is a plan. It's a plan that really, because of the cycle that the state puts us on, we're making decisions sometimes in -- as early as February or March for a -- a fiscal year that's not going to end until the following September 30th, and I think it's pretty realistic to expect there to be some changes from the time those decisions are made to the time that you're actually finishing up the end of that fiscal year. So I'm one that doesn't believe that a -- a budgeted amount means that stays in that department, and therefore, it gets spent no matter what. I believe in monitoring expenditures throughout the year, and if we get down close to the end of the fiscal year and there's money left over, then we need to hold onto that money and not make the expenditures and have that money go on into fund balance. Now, through that process, I have, in the two counties that I've been the administrator and manager, I've developed the reputation for, in both cases, turning around a crisis situation of a weak fund balance into a very strong one. In fact, in some cases we had to adjust our -- our budgeting process to account for that because we -- we ended up with too strong a budget -- a fund balance and -- and got into a position of having more cash on hand than really we should have. So I'm one that doesn't believe that just because the money's budgeted, it should be spent in any given fiscal year. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Commissioner Constantine? COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thanks for being here. MR. FERNANDEZ: Thanks for inviting me. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: You and I talked a little bit about the jail situation in Alachua County and -- and obviously there are some administrative differences where the BCC ultimately is in charge of the operation of the jail there as opposed to the sheriff, but having been through that and having been through some struggles with that, we're potentially facing, we're in the early phases, I think, of a similar problem here, and while it's the sheriff's operationally, we have to figure out some of the financing questions on the board's side and -- so I'm -- I'm curious as to what lessons you might bring in that particular area to us here in Collier? MR. FERNANDEZ: The lesson is really one that we knew in advance at that time, but -- but it's the kind of thing that required a tough decision to be made up front and you aren't going to be able to realize the impact of it until years later, and that was the recommendation to spend more money up front and build a capital facility that was going to be more efficient to run later on. And that's difficult, I understand, for policy makers to deal with because you're going to face your constituents and they're going to tell you, why does that jail have to cost as much money as you're proposing it costs, and that's really the pressure we face. So we -- we succumb to the -- the usual pressure to have that -- that dollar amount reduced to its minimum and we're all patting ourselves on the back for doing the impossible and building a jail out of vapor, you know. We didn't have any new revenues and so forth, but then it -- the -- the prediction came home to us, and that was that it was a very expensive facility to operate, because rather than building a new one that was properly designed, we renovated a -- the old one. And we knew up front that that had some built-in operational inefficiencies that -- that we're now living with and -- and was the base for a lot of the criticism that I incurred later on. Ironically, some -- most of the commissioners that made that early decision weren't on the board at the time that we were facing those operational problems, so there was no institutional memory to help me with that. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: What's that called? Passing the -- COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry? COHMISSIONER BERRY: Mr. Fernandez, what priority would you give to intergovernmental relations? In other words, school board, city government and county government? MR. FERNANDEZ: I would place a high priority on intergovernmental relations for a number of reasons. Growth management plan mandates it for capital facilities and infrastructure needs and that sort of thing, but I think the public demands it. To them, the government is the government and I don't think they see a lot of the distinctions that we understand because we're in the inside. I'm sure you get calls all the time for governmental services that you have no responsibility for at all and that -- that reflects, I think, the fact that the public doesn't -- doesn't really look at that clear distinction that may exist between governmental agencies. There's the expectation on the public's part to -- to be an efficient government, whatever that is, and -- and intergovernmental coordination is really the only way to pull that off. We all need to know what each other's up to and the communication needs to be good and it needs to be open and it needs to be continuing. It needs to be frequent. COMHISSIONER BERRY: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Commissioner Berry. At this point, I'd like to open the floor to any follow-up questions or new questions. I would like to give a -- a very -- a light caution to everyone. As we go from each candidate, one to the other, you need to keep your initial round of questions relatively similar from one to the next, and that's in accordance with proper human resources procedures. So try and deal with the same subject matter candidate to candidate for an even evaluation. However, the follow up can vary a little bit. So at this point, Commissioner Mac'Kie, do you have a follow up or second question? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What I was thinking as -- as you were answering Commissioner Berry's question, if you have any -- we all -- we all agree that intergovernmental -- I -- I think all reasonable people agree that intergovernmental coordination is real important, and we've had some strains in that regard and there have been some different patterns of how that has operated in the past, and I wonder if you can tell us, in Alachua County, you had more than one city to deal with -- MR. FERNANDEZ: Right. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- did you have some pattern, some routine in place or was it sort of as -- on an as-needed basis? How did you communicate? MR. FERNANDEZ: Initially during my early years there, there was a -- a structure in place. It was called joint intergovernmental cooperation -- no, joint intergovernmental relations cooperation and it -- it kind of fell apart because there were issues that -- that appeared to be insurmountable. The forum, the structure of the forum, I don't think was very conducive to the kind of communication that I just talked about. I think the communication needs to be not just formal, not just stiff, not just everybody all dressed up in a room with a lot of lights on and people taking pictures of you. It needs to be a constant ongoing thing, and I think what was lost in that process was a real understanding of the agenda of the other agencies. I think there was always a big presumption of what those agendas were, but I don't really believe they were fully communicated, fully understood, and I think the reason is because they -- they limited the discussion of these issues to those structured meetings that everyone was sitting there around a table and -- and they were required to discuss them at that time. I think it needs to be more of an ongoing relationship. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thanks. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Commissioner Norris? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Fernandez, you -- you may not be completely familiar with Collier County, but do you -- from what you know, do you think our county government communicates enough today with the public or would you take action to increase that communication, and if so, what would that be? MR. FERNANDEZ: You're right, I don't know enough to really answer that question well, but I can generalize, and my feeling about that is that I don't think any governments do enough of that, and the reason for that is -- is part of what I've already mentioned, the lack of the public's understanding of their government and -- and really the lack of interest. How many times do you have an important meeting when this room is empty and you think, where are these people that seem to be so -- so involved and so interested in this? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: One, two -- COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Like now? MR. FERNANDEZ: I wasn't going to do that, but you did it for me. I -- I think we -- we always need to look at other ways to communicate it and -- and I think you need to use the forums that you control, the forums that the board of county commissioners has at its disposal rather than relying on other forums that I won't mention specifically. But I think -- I think you really ought to try to go out, speak to groups, speakers bureaus. I think you ought to look at how well distributed your annual report is, and I think your best chance at getting the message out accurately is directly from you, not through another medium. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Probably a fairly simple question. I'm not looking for anything terribly elaborate, but what specific department or function, from your experience in Alachua County, gave you the greatest sense of accomplishment and might you be able to bring that here if it would be an improvement over what -- what we have? I'm just looking for what was your shining star in your experience in Alachua? MR. FERNANDEZ: This will probably make you laugh, but I think the jail. I was very proud of what we had accomplished there and I think we were doing a lot with a very little and I -- I think that that got miscommunicated because of a lot of the things I just mentioned of how the message got across and so forth. We were doing some -- some pretty remarkable things there and I'm very proud of that. Also we built our fire department from -- from nothing. We built some fire stations and -- and over the years, built from very minimal expense that we were spending for fire protection by relying upon volunteer fire departments and the balance of the unincorporated area of the county to actually providing fire services by the county, and again, we did that without raising millage, and that budget now is something like six million dollars a year. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Commissioner Constantine? COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: One of the unfortunate realities of what we face down here, and many parts of Florida do, is occasional emergency situation with hurricanes and -- and just wondering what experience you bring to that? We had -- we were very fortunate, on at least two occasions since I've been on the board, to have Neil do a very good job as far as, you know, making sure the right people were in the right place and -- and taking the proper precautions, and only once did we get hit, and even then, not nearly as badly as we could have. So what experience do you bring to that and what ideas might you have along those lines? MR. FERNANDEZ: Thank you for that question because it's really what I should have answered to the previous question. That is also one of the things I'm very proud of. The emergency management program in Alachua County, we were complimented by the director of the state program for having an excellent program and -- and over time, he -- he has been working with us potentially to set up a pilot program in Alachua County to -- to do some mitigation work. In fact, the ultimate compliment was, he hired our emergency management director just about two weeks ago. So I was very pleased to see Mr. Fugate (phonetic) doing well and -- and advancing. But it's a very different kind of proposition in an inland county. Our plan was a good one and probably we had the luxury of -- of doing a good plan because we weren't mobilizing every two or three weeks during the summer the way a lot of the coastal counties sometimes have to do. I did spend eight years in -- in Manatee County and experienced that phenomenon. The storms didn't even have to have names on them when we opened up our EOC, and we were down -- it was in the basement, and probably the worst possible place -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: You had a basement in Manatee? MR. FERNANDEZ: About -- about two blocks from the river, as a matter of fact, and I used to ask myself, why are we here in this place? This is going to be the first place to go. But -- but I've had the experience of -- of recognizing the fragility of the coastal communities and -- and it really doesn't take much for those barrier islands to -- to need evacuation. I -- I've had the experience of recognizing that if you are in a position of have -- having to call an evacuation, you're going to have to do that when the sun is shining and all your constituents think you're crazy. If you wait until the sky gets dark and the water starts to rise, it's too late. So I've had that experience. COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry? COMMISSIONER BERRY: Mr. Fernandez, if you were to accept a job here in Collier County, how important do you feel it is for the manager to be involved in the community? MR. FERNANDEZ: I feel that's essential. The manager, in many ways, is the ambassador for -- for the county in many forums. Of course, the commissioners are all ambassadors for the county, but I think that there's the expectation that the manager is involved in the community and participates in the things that are important in the community. I think to -- to not do that is difficult to convince the board of county commissioners and others that there's validity to recommendations that may come from the manager that have great social implication. So I think that perspective from dealing with community groups really helps the credibility of recommendations and -- and the feeling that the community has about their management of their county government. COMHISSIONER BERRY: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We are nearing the close of this half hour segment. I'll ask if there's one more follow-up question from any board member? Seeing none. Mr. Fernandez, first of all, on behalf of the board, we'd like to thank you for all the time and effort you've put in to continue through this lengthy process. You are welcome to either remain in the room for the balance of the interviews, or if you'd like to go downstairs and have a soda or whatever you'd like to do, it's up to you. You're on your time at this point. We wish you a -- a speedy trip home and a safe trip home and we'll look forward to contacting you in the next week. MR. FERNANDEZ: Thank you very much for this opportunity. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Miss Filson, if I could ask for our next candidate, please. I guess I can avoid the speedy and safe trip home for the next two. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Safe. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Safe, yeah. COHMISSIONER BERRY: Mr. Batten's here with the ballots. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I asked Gina when she came in if she had an envelope from the -- from the editorial board on what we were supposed to do today, but do you have one, Brent? Once again, we're at a loss, ladies and gentlemen. COHMISSIONER BERRY: We'll just have to wing it. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah, that ballot won't actually be cast until after we make our decision. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Good afternoon, Mr. Ochs. MR. OCHS: Good afternoon. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you for, once again, making the time and being a part of this process. The -- this portion of the interview can last up to 30 minutes. Each commissioner is going to have the opportunity to ask you at least one question. We're then going to go back to follow-up questions, and if at any time, or particularly at the end, if you have any questions of us, feel free to ask them at that time. MR. OCHS: Great. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Why don't we mix it up a little and start with Commissioner Berry. COHMISSIONER BERRY: Okay. Mr. Ochs, what priority would you give to intergovernmental relations that's between the school board, the cities and the county? MR. OCHS: Well, I think it's going to be increasingly important in the future to form those types of intergovernmental relationships or joint partnerships, if you will, not only with the other private providers of services in the county, but with the not-for-profit sector as well as the private sector, and the board has set examples, obviously, in all of those areas. One that comes to mind immediately is -- is the recent agreement with the Economic Development Council, the public/private partnership there for economic prosperity and diversity, which this board has said is one of their strategic goals this year and for the coming years. I know in my own experience, we've tried to establish several initiatives in that area of intergovernmental relations. My purchasing director has worked for several years with colleagues in Cape Coral, Fort Myers, Lee County, for example to form a Southwest Florida regional purchasing cooperative. Again, the idea to buy in bulk and -- and reduce costs. Obviously, the board's familiar with some of the joint venture initiatives between this board and the school district on use of -- of park facilities. So I think that's going to be a -- an increasingly important element as we try to, again, allocate sparse public resource and try to leverage those for community services. COHMISSIONER BERRY: Thank you. MR. OCHS: You're welcome. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine? COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Leo, you know we have, from time to time, difficulty with storms, hurricanes, other emergency situations. Tell me a little bit about your ability to take charge in a situation like that. Neil has done very well at making sure the right people are in the right places and the right warnings and other happenings are taking place -- MR. OCHS: Sure. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- and I -- I think unlike any other time, that's where some real leadership skills come to the forefront. MR. OCHS: I agree. As many of you may remember, I was the public information spokesperson for the staff during Hurricane Andrew a few years ago and that presented me with those types of challenges, to be able to step up and respond in real time to questions coming from the media, both regional, local and national in some cases. Also, obviously, trying to maintain all of our operational responsibilities in the areas of fleet management, facilities management, emergency services. I think I was able to fairly effectively keep those operating departments fulfilling their responsibilities in their emergency management plan, and also at the same time, provide assistance to the county manager and to the board in speaking with the public, making sure that the public was getting the correct messages through the media, and I believe that I've demonstrated that in the past and very willing to do it in the future. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I think what he's trying to say is if Lee County had him, Dan Rather wouldn't have made that comment. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The -- my question deals with the tools that you would bring to the position in an effort to balance the -- the low property tax rate, to keep that low, while responding to the increasing demand for public services. What specific tools do you bring to that particular application? MR. OCHS: Well, I think when we're -- we're looking at cost effectiveness and trying to ensure that the public gets value for the -- for the tax dollars spent that -- that, by in large, begins and ends with the budgeting process and allocation of resources, either capital or -- or human resources. I think that there's a couple of initiatives that I would like to pursue in that regard. The personal costs, personal services and related benefits are a large portion of any agency's operating costs. As you know, we've instituted several initiatives there with our recap program that the board was good enough to implement a few years ago. We've also been very active through our human resources department and the use of volunteers in the county. I think we can do more, again, to try to control our personnel benefits costs with those programs as well as maybe some part-time initiatives, some job sharing, and even now in the future I think the technology has advanced to the point where we can begin to even look at some telecommuting, perhaps, keeping our people more productive and maybe not being able to then require that kind of additional physical space either on this site or another site. So in terms of controlling costs there, I -- on the personnel side, I think those are all important initiatives. On the operating side, again, I think the gain sharing concept that we -- that was initiated by this board last year is something that we can continue to pursue. Any time you can give our employees some additional incentive to save operating dollars the way the board had established that program, I think it was -- I think it was quite effective for the pilot areas as long as you -- we structure appropriately and -- excuse me -- as long as we structure it appropriately, I think those are effective elements as well as controlling our costs. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. And Gina, don't make me remove you. MR. OCHS: One more -- if I might, again, on the revenue side, then just finally moving from expenses to revenues, again, I think obviously one of the keys is we want to continue to explore alternative revenues to ad valorem revenues, impact fees, perhaps not only the law enforcement impact fee initiative that you're looking at, but solid waste impact fee might be another revenue source that we want to explore, the impact of new people on our landfills and solid waste. Also the utilities franchise administration fees is another area that I think we're going to need to revisit again in the future. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Leo. MR. OCHS: You're welcome. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Norris? COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Ochs, would you tell us what would be your -- your plan and your time frame to reexamine all of our structure operationally and suggest any changes and implement them? What -- tell us what you would like to do and how long it would take to do that. MR. OCHS: Well, the first thing I would like to do is -- is sit with the senior management staff, again, review their table of organization. I'd want to -- the benefit of their input. It's something I'd want to take my time with initially to make sure that I have a good understanding of all of the different operating departments and all the branches of county government. I would probably take a little time to go out into the utilities area and some of the -- the plant operations where I haven't had a chance to be out in recently so I make sure that I understand their organizational structure, what kind of supervisory structure they have, how many layers of supervision they have in their own particular table of organization, and then assemble all that and sit down and make some decisions. I would assume that would be probably a -- a 90 day process. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Mac'Kie? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: My question, Leo, is one that we talked about in my office and that is, what -- what's out there that you've been dying to get at? What's -- what have you been watching and wishing you were county manager because if you were, you would be doing blank. MR. OCHS: Well, as I mentioned, I think we always need to remember that -- that this is a service oriented business, and as such, the -- the customer has to come first, so I think that we need to continue to emphasize or perhaps reemphasize our commitment to the customers and find ways to extend county services to the customer at their convenience and at their schedule as opposed to them having to react to our schedules all the time. And that can take several forms. Maybe trying to get out in the communities with -- with the senior staff on a periodic basis for meetings, neighborhood meetings. They don't even have to be a particular issue, just going out there to the public and hearing from them. We have, again, opportunities with -- with the technology that's available to us to have a county government web page, for example, for those people who are active on the internet to -- to leave some questions on bulletin boards and we can respond to those. Again, we talked the other day about the concept, perhaps, in conjunction with your new initiatives on regional library facilities to establish a portion of those facilities and staff them with cross-trained county employees that can handle water bill payments and permits, for example, so that people that live in remote areas of the community don't have to come racing down Airport Road or -- or the -- the East Trail to come and get everything that they need. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thanks. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry, do you have a follow-up question? COMMISSIONER BERRY: No question. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine, a follow up? COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I do. Leo, this may or may not be accurate, but the rap you get stuck with from time to time is you're a go-along guy and -- and, you know, smile and -- and try to just go ahead and -- and the earlier question I had had to do with leadership and taking charge in difficult situations, but how do you respond to that when -- and I know you and I had a little conversation on this, but how do you respond to that and -- and how can you assure the board that, you know, when you take the reigns, you'd be comfortable making tough decisions? MR. OCHS: That's a good question, and I think there is a difference between -- between go-along and -- and respect for -- for chain of command. There's many times where, as a member of staff, you'll sit in a staff meeting and -- and make your position known on a particular issue, perhaps object to -- to a different person's initiative or suggestion, and that's common, and I've done that on many occasions in the past ten years. But again, when -- when the -- the manager makes a decision and says, this is the decision of the agency and we're going to carry that out, I, as a member of that staff, I believe, have a -- have a duty and an obligation to carry that out, obviously, unless it's something that is just blatantly unethical or -- or illegal, and obviously, those would be exceptions, but -- so I think to say that -- that you're a go-along person is different than saying that you're able to express your opinions but know when you have to fall within the ranks when -- when the chief executive makes a decision and carry that out. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Leo, what -- if I ask you to pick one department in Collier County government that you would consider the shining star in -- in operation and efficiency, one that other departments should be modeled after, what comes to mind if I ask that? MR. OCHS: In terms of quality of service, I would -- my bias would be for the Emergency Medical Services. Obviously for a lot of reasons. The expertise of the people in that department and the -- the work that they do under such adverse conditions every day, day in and day out, 24 hours a day is -- is constantly amazing to me and the quality that they're able to maintain, I think, speaks very highly of the men and women in that service. It's an expensive operation, obviously, and you have to weigh the -- the quality question against the -- the efficiency question, but when you get into an area where it's literally life and death, I think that our EMS department really delivers on their mission of world class service. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I think few people would disagree. Thank you. Commissioner Norris, any follow up? COHHISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Ochs, tell me your assessment of how well we service public inquiries and complaints, and if you think it needs improvement, tell us what you might do to improve that service. MR. OCHS: I think that we can do a better job. I think our efforts have been a little bit disjointed in the past, and -- and one of the things that we may want to consider is -- is dedicating an existing member of the staff to public information and -- and complaint disposition, if you will. Many moons ago when I was an administrative assistant for the city manager back in Joliet, Illinois, that was one of the first programs that I took responsibility for and -- and we centralized that complaint taking and public information process through the manager's office, set written policy with turnaround times that were specified on any complaints on kind of standardized form, so everybody knew that -- that that office could cut through any organizational lines and get responses back in a specific period of time. And we felt so comfortable with our credibility in doing that, is when people called in, we could tell them that you will have a written response within five business days or two business days, you know, unless it was an emergency situation, then obviously we would get on it right away. But I think we can -- we can probably do a little bit better job of formalizing that program in that kind of a manner. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Hac'Kie, do you have a follow up? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I do. Leo, you are familiar with what spurts up from time to time as some communication problems between governments in Collier County, city council and county commission. Right now, we have little hiccups along the way, and I just wonder if you would have a program or would you have a formal or an informal -- what would be your approach to that? MR. OCHS: Well, I think ultimately any meaningful communication has to be built on some type of trust in a relationship and -- and unfortunately, trust usually takes time to build and you have to do it incrementally. Sometimes if you can get people in informal settings away from the glare of the cameras, perhaps, you know, on a one-on-one basis, you can begin to build some rapport and -- and develop those kind of working relationships that are built on -- on some trust. So perhaps we could pursue that as -- as one avenue to -- to improve the working relationships. Again, I just think it -- it takes hard work and -- and constant persistent efforts at communicating to make it work. I don't know that there's any magic potions out there. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Thanks. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. We have some time available if there are any additional questions. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I do have one. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Commissioner Constantine? COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Leo, in some circles in the county as we talk about this decision, you're perceived as the dark horse candidate, and -- and that may or may not be accurate, but the -- the perception is there. I'm not a -- certainly not asking you to criticize the other two candidates, but how do you differentiate between yourself and the others and your leadership abilities? MR. OCHS: I can only tell you, Commissioner, that -- that I believe my government experience has been very well-rounded. Again, in my experiences in the City of Joliet, I worked for the manager's office directly, a lot of involvement with items that come through the manager's office and the public information arena. And then here at the county, obviously my expertise has been in human resource management, but as my responsibilities have broadened, it's allowed me, ironically enough, being in support services, which is generally viewed as the behind-the-scenes group, you have obligations and responsibilities to service all of the internal customers throughout the agency. So it puts me in contact with all of those people on a regular basis. So it -- it's allowed me to build my base of knowledge, I believe, even in areas where I don't have direct operating responsibility. So I -- you know, in terms of what distinguishes me from the others, I don't know that they have that broad of a -- of a background. COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thank you. MR. OCHS: You're welcome. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I have one, if you have a little more time. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yes. Commissioner Mac'Kie? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I wonder if you think that the -- the staff is empowered and channels are open for ideas for improvement to come from lower staff levels and mid managers up to the top, or if you think we need some improvement there, what your program might be in that regard? MR. OCHS: Right. Well, I think we've made a concerted effort and a fairly formalized effort the past few years with our total quality management program to do just that, Commissioner Hac'Kie. In essence, that whole program is ultimately designed to filter responsibility and corresponding authority for decision-making and problem solving down to the lowest levels in the organization where they typically have the best ideas because they're working with the problem day in and day out. I think the problem with those kind of programs is, sometimes you push too much paper at the expense of -- and you try to create such a formalized system that you're creating a bureaucracy instead of meeting your primary objectives. So what we've tried to do, and I think I would encourage us doing more of it, is to find ways to take the best elements out of that concept, but cut out some of the -- the bureaucratic stages of it and give our employees that kind of empowerment and ability to get ideas filtered quickly up the chain of command. I think our organizational structure now lends, I think, a great deal to that effort because we -- we don't have an overabundance of management layers and it doesn't take a great deal of time to get communication up and down the chain of command, but I think if we start working on bringing teams of people together from different divisions and different areas of the county, we're going to build more and more of that -- that kind of teamwork and synergy. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Any further questions for Mr. Ochs? Leo, first of all, again, thank you for putting yourself forward, bringing a lot of attention to yourself through this process. I hope the rest of the board feels the same way in that I have had the ability to be exposed to a lot of strengths that you've brought to the job, and for me, it's been a valuable process and I have a greater degree of confidence in you than I did before the process began. So thank you once again and we will -- we have one more candidate to interview. You're welcome to stay here for that. After that, we'll take a brief recess and -- and probably come back with some level of decision, so -- MR. OCHS: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, again, I just want to thank the board for the opportunity to compete and it's been a pleasure, and I know whatever decision you make will be a good one and I'll be here Friday morning ready to go to work any way. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Leo, thank you. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Could I use this for just a little update on something that was discussed on Tuesday? Is that appropriate to tell you something? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yeah, I guess. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Let me just tell it -- that the business that you pulled off -- the beach parking that was pulled off the consent agenda has been added as a discussion item at city council workshop on the fifth, first item, 8:30. Mayor Barnett told me last night that he would add that to the agenda so we can have an opportunity to discuss it. I'll be there. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Is it a fair assumption that between now and then, either you or someone will talk to them? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I am already doing that. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Great. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: And I just wanted you to know that. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I, individually, will contact Bill and -- and talk to him also. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Hi, Mike. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Good afternoon, Mr. McNees. MR. MCNEES: Good afternoon. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: This -- this portion of the interviews -- this section will last up to 30 minutes. Each commissioner will have an opportunity to ask you one question in the first round, and then we'll have follow-up questions or a second round of questions until either we're done or -- or time disallows continuing. I think I speak for the board when I say we'd like to thank you for offering yourself under the microscope for -- throughout this process. You've certainly been a very, very strong candidate and I think we're all very appreciative of your -- your participation and involvement. We're going to mix it up a little bit. Commissioner Constantine, why don't you go first. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Sure. One of the things I talked about is emergency situations like Hurricane Andrew. Neil did a very good job as far as firmly taking the reigns and making sure we had clear direction and -- and that staff was clear on what they needed to be doing. Tell me what we could expect in the way of leadership from you in similar emergency situations. MR. MCNEES: Well, I -- I'd step back maybe one step first, which would be to make sure that -- one of the things, in fact, we talked about it just a couple weeks ago at our staff meetings is, as many changes as there have been around here and as there are in any year, I looked at some of the -- the emergency management paperwork and who was assigned to what job and some of those -- I mean, I found one that had Bill Hargett's name on it and -- and, you know, one of the things absolutely we need to do is make sure that everyone understands what their role is in advance because, you know, I can stand there and, you know, be as calm as Abe Lincoln on the day of the hurricane, but if we're not organized and ready for it and everybody doesn't understand what their role is, it won't make much difference, we won't be prepared. So I think, generally, Ken Pineau and those folks do a fantastic job. I think it's a matter of the small items, the nuts and bolts things, let's make sure everybody understands their role, let's make sure we're prepared, you know, and I -- I can stand here and tell you that I'll -- I'll be wise and calm and exercise the best judgment that I know how, which is one of the things that I've been selling to you, I guess, along the way here has been, I believe in my judgment, and it's easy to stand here and say that. I mean, I believe that, but until Andrew II comes along, I guess we'll -- it will be hard to judge that, so I -- I guess my answer is, make sure we're prepared and make sure that everybody who has a role to play knows it and is prepared to play it, and then pray like everyone else once the time comes that we all do what we need to do. COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Commissioner Norris? COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. McNees, tell us what your plan would be for reevaluating our structure and our operations and the timetable that you would assume would be appropriate to make any changes that you felt were necessary, and perhaps if you had some changes in mind, you could share those as well. MR. MCNEES: Well, we're a little bit unfortunate from a timetable standpoint in that we go into our budget evaluation very shortly, and within just the next couple of weeks, although given that our budget isn't actually adopted until September, there is some time that if we feel like we want to make adjustments, that we would have time to do it, and I think from a timetable standpoint, before you adopt a final budget in September would be perfectly appropriate. I wouldn't have any preconceived notion at this point of major structural changes or large scale reorganizations. I think we need to, as we have consistently, continue to evaluate the in-house services that we provide versus what we can procure the same services on the open market, you know. We are continuing -- there are some services that we've changed over the years. We've -- we've gone to outside providers, some we've brought in house. We need to continue that analysis, and some of the big areas where we spend money where we can continue that analysis in terms of engineering service. We do a lot of work in house on engineering services and we need to make sure we still understand that that's -- that's value added money and -- and it's not duplicate expense. I think that's an area we can take a good hard look and look forward, actually, to having our new public works administrator in on that effort. He'll be great for that because he's got a lot of experience in that area and he has no preconceived notion about how we're doing, and he'll be a real fresh look at that sort of thing. That's an area -- and in some other areas, things we're doing in house, can we do better and things that we're currently contracting, does it still make sense, so I think maybe over the course of the summer, we can -- we can get to those things easily by September. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Commissioner Berry? COMMISSIONER BERRY: Mr. McNees, what priority would you give to intergovernmental relations between school board, county and the cities? MR. MCNEES: Oh, I think a high priority, and I think generally from a staff level, relations have been very good. In my experience, our relationships, we get good cooperation from the folks at both agencies. I think the -- the elected officials and the managers of each, the superintendent and city manager, need to continue to communicate with each other and -- and see if we can identify -- I think maybe that's the thing the managers can do best is identify maybe in advance the -- where we're headed, situations where there may be conflicts because we understand, maybe the thinking of our boards and how they're inclined to do things, and if we can communicate with each other, maybe a little more regularly, maybe even a little more formally -- maybe I mean regularly more than I mean formally, we can head off some of the kind of things that tend to lead to -- to conflict down the road. So I think it's very important, if only from a public perception standpoint. If Dr. Woodruff and I have some sort of an argument, then no matter how well the staffs are really cooperating, the only thing the public sees is the city and the county are having a fight and -- so, yeah, I think it's very important. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Mac'Kie? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Mike, my question is one that I really appreciated your answer to when we -- when we interviewed one on one, and that was about what have -- what have you been dying to get at? You know, why do you want this job? What is it that you've been saying that if I had this job, here's what I would do right out -- off the bat or what do you want to get done? MR. HCNEES: More than specific nuts and bolts things that I would like to, you know, grab ahold of immediately, are more cultural kinds of things that I'd like to see. Personally, and maybe it's a matter of style more than anything, I believe the county manager's office itself can be more accessible. I believe that -- that when somebody walks in the front door and they want to talk to the county manager, that if -- if I'm not with someone or if I'm not on the telephone, I ought to talk to them, and if a -- if a homeowner's association wants the county manager to come talk to them, I ought to be there. In fact, I've already done a couple of those and find that people are really excited and say, gee, we've never had the county manager before, and no offense, but one of them was happy that I substituted for a commissioner one night because, see, we get lots of commissioners, but we've never had the county manager. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Nobody was as happy as I was. MR. HCNEES: Yeah, so that turned into a real bonus. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I really appreciate you admitting to that, Pam. MR. HCNEES: So -- and that's a minor thing, but it's kind of a cultural thing. Continued emphasis on something that we have, I believe, always emphasized, that we are a service organization and that -- that we need to continually focus on that, that that's what we're here for, to serve, not to -- we are not the end, we are sort of the -- the medium more than the end. I'm excited about the economic development and business relationships that we're just barely beginning to move towards. I think that's something we can really get ahold of and we can play a really good role as long as we recognize our role is limited, but we need to recognize what it is and we need to follow through on it. Something I've said to a couple of you, I -- I hate to repeat myself, but we can do a better job of understanding business, and even if it's not playing any formal role, just understand that when we delay something for a month, it costs that business owner, it costs that petitioner, it costs that developer money. We talk about, you know, the cost of housing. It's not all impact fees. It's not all, you know, regulation. Sometimes it's interest costs on the business loans, and when we make them wait two more months before they come back up here to see you or before they complete the -- we complete the staff work, that goes into the price of a house too. Sometimes in government we don't understand that. We don't -- in NPA school, they don't teach you about the time value of money. They teach you about government, but they don't teach you about -- about those other things. So that's another area where I think we can -- I'll pitch my HBA in that regard that I think is something that I bring. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Follow-up questions? Commissioner Constantine? COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah, Hike, the rap against Hike HcNees, if there is one -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Excuse me. I forgot me. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: So unselfish of you. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Commissioner Hancock doesn't -- doesn't ever ask you questions. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Right. The same question I've asked of the other two. What tools do you feel you can bring to the position that will help keep the balance between property taxes maintaining and being very low and the -- the ever increasing demand for public services? What tools do you have that will help that relationship stay positive? MR. HCNEES: Well, I've been there. I've been in those budget meetings now in one form or another from the askee to the referee, to the asker to every role you can possibly play in that now for the better part of 13 years, and I'll remember having been the budget director the year that the Daily News editorialized, hallelujah, how great it was of the county that ad valorem taxes only went up 5 percent this year when we were facing the business downturn of the late 80's. So as I've said to a couple of you, there's no magic to it. There's no -- there's no innovative solution. There's no book that we can all read and install a program to make that happen. It's just going to be hard work, and if you ask me what tools do I bring to the table for that process, I'm a guy that when you have to say no, I will say no. And when it comes time to identifying, okay, here are your options, if you want this as your goal, here are the things that you need to decide. I will tell you, here are your options, and I'm not inclined to sugar coat them or sometimes, to your own detriment, not inclined to tell you exactly what you want to hear, but if we're -- if we're going to maintain that -- that goal and you all set the goal, then it's going to be my job to tell you, here are your ways to get there and here are your options. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. I'm sorry. Commissioner Constantine, if you can remember what it was you -- COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Something about a rap. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah, I understand you used to sing rap. I don't know. No, the rapping of Hike HcNees is a question about getting along with people and I wonder if you can respond to that. MR. HCNEES: I'll sure try. I -- I love that -- glad you asked me that question because I've heard that before and I think -- I don't necessarily understand it because, of course, maybe people aren't going to tell me they think that, particularly not at this moment when I might be the county manager tomorrow, but I'll be the first to admit, I can be a hard head, and that I -- if I believe in something and I have a lot of faith in -- in the value of my core beliefs and the things that guide me to make the decisions that I make, but I believe even more in recent years that I've also learned that -- that before you draw lines and take positions, you need to listen to people and give them an opportunity as well. So -- I mean, you all know me. I have dealt with you in this room and personally and I would encourage you, although it's kind of late now, don't ask me, because I'm gonna tell you I'm Mr. Charm and everybody loves me, ask the people that I work with and that I deal with, and ask the homeowner's associations that I speak to. Ask the private engineers that I've done business with over the last 13 years whether I'm hard to get along with, and I'm absolutely confident that they'll tell you that's a bad rap. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Norris, follow up? COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. HcNees, you answered a portion of my next question when you dealt with Commissioner Hac'Kie's first question, but let me ask you your assessment of how we deal with individual members of the public now, how -- how well we service their complaints and inquiries and if you think that we need improvement, and if so, what would you do to improve it? MR. HCNEES: There's no question we can use improvement. I admit that standing here, and as the assistant county manager, one of my jobs was to help make sure we responded to those kind of things, so I'll admit, absolutely, we can use improvement. One of the things that gets in the way is how compartmentalized we are and how -- how difficult it is for a -- a person to find the point of contact in county government that will get him to the person who will solve his problems, and that's a -- it sounds like, well, gee, then let's fix that. Well, it's hard to fix because we are so complicated, we are so diverse in the things that we do. Going back to the cultural things, we used to teach customer service in this county. We used to have formal classes that every employee went through, teaching them just basic customer service techniques, and one of the things we -- and I used to teach that class, and one of the things we used to teach people is when someone calls on the telephone, don't tell them, well, you need to call the storm water management department, and if you're in a really good mood, you'd look the number up for them, but you get their name and number. You know the bureaucracy. You make the calls. You find out who can help this person and put those two people together. And those are the kind of things that we need to reemphasize, and we have an awful lot of people out there who do that every day. So it's just a matter of -- of, you know, of getting everyone on board, that that's -- that's our idea is to -- is to don't pass people off, but let's help them. In terms of your individual constituents, and -- and given what this relationship is where you're limited in what you can direct with county manager agency employees, I think we need to identify in the manager's office clear contact points where each one of you has a person that you call when you have an inquiry. We make it that person's responsibility to provide feedback. Sometimes it can't be immediate, sometimes it takes a week or two, but to let you know what's up so that -- and -- and to communicate with your constituent as well so that we develop a good system where they don't fall through the cracks. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I've got one. I don't know if you will have a -- one single answer to this question, but you've had a lot of jobs at this county, and I wonder if -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: All for the same employer though. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: All for -- all for the same employer, and -- well, frankly, I think you've been sent to a lot of trouble spots, it's been my observation over the years, and I just wonder if you have one accomplishment you're most proud of or one that you would point out to us? MR. MCNEES: Probably -- I'll pick one. I'm proud of what we did with the staff in the utilities division at the time I went out there, because that division, and I use the expression brought the ship back on course, was somewhat rudderless. And I've got to make sure everyone understands; the motor was running, the decks were shiny, the larder was stocked and that ship was in great running order, but it was just kind of floundering around. There was no rudder. There was nobody at the wheel, and when I walked in there, some of you will recall, there was a performance audit on the table that said they were about 20 percent overstaffed, I believe was the neighborhood of the number, and that -- and in fact, the executive summary had already been written outlining the dismantling, so to speak, of the staff and what phases we were going to take and -- and that was -- there was a lot of momentum for that, and with good reason. You all had spent a good amount of money for that -- for that performance audit and had good reason to believe that it was legitimate and that you were being told good information. Well, it turned out, there was very little substance or very little actual research behind some of their recommendations. That the more we looked at staffing formulas and standards and safety standards and -- and, you know, environmental standards for the utility operation, that -- that it was wrong. They were going the wrong way and were going to put the operation of utility at risk. And when I say the ship needed to be steered, really all we did was give the people out there who were really doing the job the opportunity to speak for themselves and to stand up and say, here's what we know about our operations, here's how they work, here's what we know about how they should be fixed or what should be changed, and once we got out of the way, frankly, in management, let those people come forward and make their case, the board understood and the board did what I believe at that time was the right thing, and we made some adjustments, and moved forward. So I was proud to have the opportunity, for one reason, because that's where I started. I started in utilities when there was no utility system. I watched it grow. I was there when the utility system was the pride of the county. So it felt good to give those people a chance to stand up and be counted and kind of come back to that status. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thanks. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry's indicated she doesn't have a follow up, and actually, my question was very similar to yours, Commissioner Mac'Kie, so I don't have anything either. Is there any additional follow up for Mr. McNees? Seeing none. Mike, as I have mentioned to each candidate, I think we need to thank you for offering yourself up to the microscope to be looked at and turned around and twisted and viewed from every angle. I think much like Leo, we've had the opportunity to work with you, and through this interview process, have seen your strengths to a far greater degree than we were exposed to previously, and for that, I want to thank you. We are going to go to the public speakers and take a brief recess and come back with, hopefully, some level of decision. You're welcome to stay for that or -- or return later, whatever is your -- is to your liking, but on behalf of the Board of Commissioners, thank you very much. MR. HCNEES: I appreciate that. I'd like to take a minute. I see I have five remaining here on my -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We can change that here real quick, Hike. MR. HCNEES: If I may, just while I have you. First of all, I thank you for the opportunity you gave me to serve as the interim manager. I've enjoyed that immensely. I've gotten to deal with a lot of people that I have dealt with over the years but at a different level and it's been a lot of fun and I've gotten a lot of positive feedback. I feel very honored to be one of the three that you've allowed to come in here and make a pitch for this job. I've been in this county for 17 years and -- and feel like I have a real stake here. I feel very honored, as I said, to be able to stand here today and I feel like this is the opportunity of a lifetime for me, frankly, and you know, I've done my homework and dotted my I's and crossed my T's, and frankly, done my job through the years and appreciate you giving me the opportunity to make my pitch and -- and if you decide that I'm your man, then I guarantee you you'll get the county manager that you deserve and that this county deserves, and I thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you very much. Mr. Weigel, how many public speakers do we have? MR. WEIGEL: We have one today. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Why don't we go ahead and go to that, please. MR. WEIGEL: That's Mr. Ty Agoston MR. AGOSTON: Second day in one week. Ladies and Gentlemen, my name is Ty Agoston. I live in Golden Gate Estates, and I came for the sole purpose of speaking in support of Mr. HcNees. I had a great deal of respect for Neil Dotrill, and I consider the basic qualification of a good executive is to prepare a substitute for himself, and considering it from that point of view alone, I think Mr. Dotrill had prepared a substitute to take his place in case he ever had to leave, which he did have to leave. And other than that, I had an opportunity to observe Mr. HcNees and the way he behaved, the way he handled and responded to questions, and I considered that more than sufficient for his job. And the fact that his background is in budget, I believe that his job should be essentially in budget. That should be his largest expertise, because in terms of policy, you guys set the policy and as far as dealing with the public, that's a learned behavior and I think that's a really very easy thing to acquire. That's all I really have to say. Thank you very much for the opportunity. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Agoston. As we've indicated, what I'd like to do now is take a five minute recess. We'll reconvene and open discussions on what direction the board wishes to take. (A recess was had from 2:41 p.m. until 2:50 p.m.) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Going to call to order the balance of the Thursday, April 24th, 1997 special meeting of the Board of County Commissioners on the issue of selection, potential selection of a county manager. Commissioner Norris? COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Chairman, we have three highly qualified candidates and we can't miss here. No matter which one we choose will be a great asset to our community. I'm going to make a motion that we select Mr. Robert Fernandez as our next county manager and authorize the staff to begin negotiations on a contract with him. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I have to agree with the -- the choice of Mr. Fernandez for two reasons. One, in the interview process, I think he -- he just rose to the top of that. The second thing is that when I look at the strengths that Mr. McNees has to offer this community, although Mr. Fernandez will have the opportunity to choose his own assistant county manager, I think those two together are a team that cannot be beat, and I don't think we could find a better potential twosome to direct the administration of Collier County. I'm going to ask you if you would consider modifying your motion to authorize the chairman to negotiate a contract as opposed to staff? I think in concert with the County Attorney's Office and human resources personnel, it has been the history that the chairman -- COMMISSIONER BERRY: That's very appropriate. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- structures that contract. It would not be signed until it is approved by this board in full at the first available BCC meeting. The process that I have seen or that I have envisioned would be working with, obviously with Mr. Weigel to ensure the -- the legal content of the contract and human resources assisting to gather information, that we produce a state of the art contract, and I'll -- I'll give you my take on it out of the chute, all these -- these -- COMMISSIONER NORRIS: If you'd stop for a moment, I'll modify the motion. COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The second agrees to the amendment. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Well, then you don't need my take. You'll hear it in a couple of weeks. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd like to comment too on the reason for my second just real briefly. I know everybody -- we don't want to take a lot of time with speeches, but my -- my speech, anyway, is that I agree exactly with what you said about that the team -- and I seriously hope very strongly that if Mr. Fernandez is selected that he will keep Mr. McNees on as his assistant. I think that the team would be incredible. Hard, hard decision for me. You guys know that I wish that we had gone a little slower, taken a little -- a broader look. Nevertheless, Mr. Fernandez was my favorite of the outsides from the beginning and I am excited about the fresh look that he brings, and to me, that was a fresh look, coupled with the significant experience that he has is what swung my vote for Mr. Fernandez, and I just want to say that because I do have so much confidence in both of the other candidates and their ability to do a great job as well. COMMISSIONER BERRY: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yes, Commissioner Berry? COHHISSIONER BERRY: I'd like to make a comment. I guess this end of the table it's very hard to get a second in sitting down here. It seems to be a preponderance on that side of the table -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Well, they are to the right. COHMISSIONER BERRY: I know, they're to the right. That's why we switched seats, you see, so at any rate, had Hiss Hac'Kie not made the second, I would have seconded that motion. I felt very strongly after I viewed the videotapes. I felt very strongly about Mr. Fernandez when I met him in person. I felt very strongly about him and I agree that as we progress through this, it became a very difficult decision between Mr. Fernandez and Mr. HcNees, but I agree wholeheartedly that the team ought to be a very strong team, and I think Collier County is certainly going to be the beneficiary of experience from being here from Mr. HcNees' standpoint and also the -- a new look with Mr. Fernandez coming into the county. So I certainly endorse this choice. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine? COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: You know, one of my -- and I want to preface by agreeing with Commissioner Norris that I think this is sometimes, particularly with elected officials, we talk about what's the lesser of two evils, but I think in this case we've got a great opportunity. We have three people. There is not a losing choice here. For me, one of my initial concerns, as we looked at any of the outside candidates, was the issue of stability, and the issue that got a great deal of attention when Neil resigned was the fact that he did have ten years with us here, and that is very, very unusual in that type position, and I think the stability that goes with a community and all the pluses that that provides really can't be stressed enough. And so I think with all three of these, we have an opportunity with -- both our inside candidates have been with us a long time, and obviously if they were anxious to be going elsewhere, they would have tried to do that already. And that was an initial concern for me as I looked at the various outside candidates is, who has demonstrated that same stability, and I think the idea that this gentleman has been in Alachua County for nearly -- or a little over 11 years, shows a great deal of stability. Shows that he's not going to come here and in two years be looking to send out some resumes to see where else he can go and continue to move up whatever imaginary ladder may be there. Secondarily -- COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: This is the top. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: This is it, and I don't -- and actually, we joke about that, but I think it is. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I think it is. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think we do have the premier community in the State of Florida. Just by way of extra support for Mr. Fernandez, I have a number of friends in Alachua County, a number of very good friends, some -- and also some professional associates that I met through the Leadership Florida and made calls to each of them, and some of them dealt with him directly through government, some dealt from the business end, and some knew really only through media and -- and the grapevine, if you will, and they were unanimous in their support for him and for his abilities, and so I'm comfortable with your suggestion and I think the county will be well served. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: One thing that I think does need to be mentioned is that we all talk about the three candidates and we've sat here and talked about Mr. Fernandez and Mr. HcNees. One thing that struck me is that Mr. Ochs is probably not being used to the greatest of his abilities. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I agree. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: When I looked at the -- the selection, the first selection for me is, which one do I feel would be the best choice for county manager. And then the secondary consideration of course is, what about the other two, where do they fit in with Collier County. I obviously, since we're throwing out who we think assistant county manager should be, I think Mr. Ochs is the type of individual that needs to have a greater responsibility in the future of Collier County than he currently holds. That obviously is a decision for Mr. Fernandez, but he's impressed me in this process. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Me too. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And I was grateful for the opportunity to see that. In the same sense, almost a little concerned that he has now made himself available to other communities by expressing an interest, and I would like to see him stay here and hope that we can find -- find a comfortable position for him and for this board, but that, again, is Mr. Fernandez's duty, not ours. COMMISSIONER BERRY: I'd like to make one last comment, again, going back to the fact that we did have three good candidates, any one of them could be a county manager. I think it behooves this board though, each of us need to take a look and -- and stop and think a minute, any of the people who are going to be county managers, it behooves us to make sure that they get a clear direction from this board. They are only going to be as good as the direction that we give them, and then the follow up lies in their ballpark, but the initial direction comes from five of us collectively up here as a board. So I think we need to keep that in mind and make sure that our direction is clear to them in the future. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Agreed. We have a motion and a second on the floor. Is there further discussion on the motion? Seeing none, I'll call the question. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, the motion carries unanimously. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, just a comment and certainly nothing to prohibit you from beginning conversations as early as possible, but I wondered if, and I'm not prepared to do this today, but if we might have some discussions as a board just on the general topic of contract. I renegotiated Neil's contract in 1993 mainly for the reason that it had no end. It had no time period or no period at which it would be reviewed or looked at for changes, and -- and just having gone through that, I know you've done work with the school board, it might be good exercise just for us to throw out some different ideas as you go into that process. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Agreed, and I will, of course, appreciate anything you have in writing to my office. I started -- as I started to elaborate and Commissioner Norris promptly cut me off, what I foresee at this point in any type of contract negotiation -- negotiation is one of these no frills contracts, all this garbage with transportation perks and so forth. Lay the expectation out, put a fitting salary on it. The state retirement system is quite significant. Mr. Fernandez in particular already has ten or 11 years vested in that retirement system. I think if you pay a good wage and draw up the expectations with a time frame of -- of three years or less with modification to the contract was something I'd already considered, that the -- you know, and then we have other things that have to be in there, but I think a very clear cut contract where the salary speaks for itself and the perks are not hidden, I -- I think is going to do this community a greater service than -- than one of the -- the Fancy Dan CEO type where the salary is secondary to all the other that goes with it. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Any objection to making that a discussion item on our -- whatever our next meeting is, Tuesday the May -- COMHISSIONER BERRY: I really caution you from doing that. I really believe that it is appropriate that the -- that the chairman and the attorney sit down and draw up this contract, draw up a tentative contract, then get it -- COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Then discuss it. COMHISSIONER BERRY: -- back to each of us to discuss. Do not go in the other direction. I don't think there's -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I couldn't agree more. COMMISSIONER BERRY: -- that you're going to accomplish what you want to accomplish. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: All I want to make sure we avoid is -- and I don't think we will with you anyway, but have pride of authorship and thinking, well, this is how I wrote it and now they're arguing or picking apart my work, and I don't think that's a suggestion at all, but I think that's a natural reaction and I know, you know, in at least one case on the board in the last five years that happened, so -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Well, I singularly -- I singularly can do nothing in Collier County. We collectively accomplish anything and all things. So if there is pride of authorship and I'm going to be a baby, that's not going to change, but in reality, I am anticipating taking a read on my colleagues and developing a contract that I believe will have a majority, if not unanimous, support of this board and will do nothing other than that. If I am wrong, then I expect to be corrected and that's the idea of the process. COMMISSIONER BERRY: Mr. Chairman, I've been in your position to draw up a contract with -- I did with the superintendent of schools, the current superintendent, I was the chairman at that time, and you fully are on the right track and you need to proceed down that track and then bring it back for the rest of the commission to take a look at. Item #4 RESOLUTION 97-224 AUTHORIZING TRAVEL EXPENSES AND LODGING FOR MR. FERNANDEZ AND FAMILY - ADOPTED CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The one thing I did want to ask for some guidance on from the balance of the board, Mr. Fernandez has two children that are high school age. They are in an accelerated program where they are now, I think it's called the International Baccalaureate program, the IB program. The -- it's very, very important, particularly to someone who has a family and moving from outside the area, to get a view of the area. I'd like the board to authorize travel expense and lodging for him to bring his family down to look at the area in his process, and just travel expenses and lodging, because I think how his family feels about this area and the educational opportunities here are equally important in his decision as to what is contained in the contract. COHMISSIONER BERRY: Absolutely. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Absolutely. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. All right. With that -- I'm sorry, did you have something? COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No, I was just pointing to Mr. Weigel. I'm sorry. MR. WEIGEL: In regard to the direction and consensus of the board for the travel expenses for Mr. Fernandez and family, I would request that in fact you go on the record with a motion and we'll reserve a resolution number and prepare the appropriate resolution. COMHISSIONER BERRY: I'll make that motion, Mr. Chairman. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: expenses -- COMHISSIONER BERRY: CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: COMHISSIONER BERRY: CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. And the motion is restricted to travel Travel expenses. -- and lodging? And lodging. Okay. Is there a cap? COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Can we throw in that vague -- vague legal term, reasonable travel expenses? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: That's -- that's -- what I'm talking about is airfare or mileage and lodging, period. MR. WEIGEL: Thank you. COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Is that acceptable to the motion maker? COMMISSIONER BERRY: Yes. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. And second? COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Uh-huh. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and second. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Opposed? (No response) CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none. And we will reserve a resolution number, Mr. Weigel? MR. WEIGEL: Yes. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Anything additional in today's deliberations we need to be advised of, Mr. Weigel? MR. WEIGEL: No, I don't think so. I would state that if there are any communications from one commissioner to another, these will be public records. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: As always. MR. WEIGEL: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Miss Filson, anything for you? MS. FILSON: No. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Wonderful. Ladies and gentlemen, we're adjourned. Thank you. There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 3:03 p.m. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL ATTEST: DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK TIMOTHY L. HANCOCK, CHAIRMAN These minutes approved by the Board on , as presented or as corrected TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY HEATHER L. CASASSA, RPR