BCC Minutes 02/25/1997 RREGULAR HEETING OF FEBRUARY 25, 1997
OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS
LET IT BE REHEHBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners
in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of
Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts
as have been created according to law and having conducted business
herein, met on this date at 9 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F"
of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following
members present:
ALSO PRESENT:
CHAIRMAN:
VICE-CHAIRMAN:
Timothy L. Hancock
Barbara B. Berry
John C. Norris
Timothy J. Constantine
Pamela S. Hac'Kie
Hichael A. HcNees, Interim County Hanager
David C. Weigel, County Attorney
Sue Filson, Administrative Assistant
Item #3
AGENDA AND CONSENT AGENDA - APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED WITH CHANGES
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Good morning. I'd like to call to
order the Tuesday, February 25, 1997, meeting of the Collier County
Board of County Commissioners -- Commissioners. Excuse me. It's a
pleasure this morning for the purpose of our invocation to have
Rabbi James Perlman from the Temple Shalom of Naples here.
Rabbi Perlman, if I could ask you to give our invocation
this morning.
RABBI PERLHAN: We turn to you oh, God, as we assemble
in this chamber. We are grateful that you have brought us together in
health and safety and in well-being. We have come here to listen to
consider to exercise our civic responsibilities. Help us recognize
that today and every day is a new opportunity for service to our
neighbors. Help us to be patient when our neighbors differ on
opinions and insights, and help us to pursue the common good that
flows from common sense.
Before we find fault in others, let us examine
ourselves. We take pride in our achievements. We bemoan our
failures, yet in the great passage of time, you have granted each of
us but a few years, and you have placed before us unlimited
opportunity for doing good.
Let us be grateful that we are among the givers and not
the takers. Teach us higher and better ways to be generous with
ourselves and our substance even as you have been generous to us.
Help us cultivate the ability to listen. Let us hear
what others say and not only what we would hear. Help us see the
needs of others as they see them and not as we would have them, and
let us draw on our highest and best instincts the values of our
country and our national heritage and the demands of our conscience.
Let us listen to the still small voice of our conscience, and help us
see the potential in this place, for you have given us the unique gift
and responsibility of making those choices that will affect others far
into the future. Help us see beyond the needs of the moment and
tomorrow and next year.
We ask your blessings on this commission and all those
that serve the needs of our community. Bless our homes and our
schools and our offices today. Bless those who speak and those who
listen, and bless each of us with the gifts of insight and
understanding, so do we in this spirit give thanks to you for this
opportunity for service. Amen.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. HcNees, would you lead us in the
pledge, please.
(The pledge of allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Rabbi Perlman, thank you very much
this morning for being with us and offering an invocation. We'd also
like to thank Temple Shalom for allowing him to be here.
Next on our agenda this morning we have approval of
minutes which would require a motion.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Accept the agenda first.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I am sorry. Let me -- Okay. I'm in
a little bit of a hurry. How about Item 3 before Item 47 Approval of
agenda and consent agenda. Do we have any changes to the agenda,
Commissioner Hac'Kie?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I have none.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Norris?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: No. Nothing further.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry?
COHMISSIONER BERRY: No.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: A couple of items under
discussion but nothing that requires us to add to the agenda.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. HcNees, we'd like to go through
your list of changes.
MR. HCNEES: Yes, sir. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and
Commissioners. We have two withdrawals today. We would like to
withdraw Item 8(B)(1) to clean up the financial information a little
bit and get you some more specifics regarding dollar approvals.
We would like to withdraw Item 16(A)(1), a code
enforcement case, at the request of the attorney's office.
And we have one change for the record on Consent Agenda
Item 16(B)(4). There's an incorrect number in the title. The title
should reflect $127,180 which is what's in the body of that executive
summary instead of the $196,000 number that is reflected in the title,
and that would be the only other change.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
Mr. Weigel?
MR. WEIGEL: No changes. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. And I have nothing further.
Do we have a motion on the agenda and consent agenda?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Hove to approve the agenda
and consent agenda as amended.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, now on --
Item #4
MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 3, 1997 WORKSHOP AND REGULAR MEETING OF FEBRUARY 4,
1997
COHHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to
make a motion we approve the minutes of the February 3, 1997, workshop
and the February 4, 1997, regular meeting of the Board of County
Commissioners.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion?
Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, those minutes are
approved.
Item #5A1
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING THE WEEK OF FEBRUARY 23 - MARCH 1, 1997 AS
EMERGENCY PLANNING AND COHMUNITY RIGHT-TO-KNOW AWARENESS WEEK - ADOPTED
Proclamations and service awards. This morning it's my
pleasure to read a proclamation designating the week of February 23 to
March 1, 1997, as Emergency Planning and Community Right-to-Know
Awareness Week and -- Mr. Pineau, there we are. I'd ask Mr. Pineau to
come up and face the music. For those of you who don't know Ken, he's
our emergency management director and then some. COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: He's the man.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Whereas, the proper use of hazardous
materials is essential to local businesses and industry in maintaining
economic stability in our community; and
Whereas, it is essential to plan and prepare for the
accidental release of hazardous materials and to protect the
well-being of all citizens and guests of Collier County; and
Whereas, response teams, such as fire, law enforcement,
emergency medical services, and public works, have an inherent
responsibility to know the types and characteristics of hazardous
materials that are being used and stored in our community in the event
of an accidental release to respond safely; and
Whereas, all citizens and guests of Collier County have
a right to know the types, location, and quantity of certain hazardous
materials in our community and a right to know the proper procedures
to take in the event of an accidental release.
Now, therefore, be it proclaimed by the Board of County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, that the week of February 23
through March 1, 1997, be designated as Emergency Planning and
Community Right-to-Know Awareness Week.
Done and ordered this 25th day of February, 1997; signed
Timothy L. Hancock, Chairman.
My colleagues, I would like to move approval of this
proclamation.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. ANy discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, Mr. Pineau, thank you.
MR. PINEAU: Thank you, Commissioners. I accept this
proclamation on behalf of the literally hundreds of facilities, from
agriculture chemical facilities up to wastewater treatment plants who
maintain these chemicals in our community in a safe and competent
manner and also for the first responders, fire, police, and EMS from
the City of Naples and Collier County as well as our public-work folks
that have to deal with the very occasional accidental release of these
chemicals. So I thank you very much, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Ken.
Item #SA1
CARNIVAL PERMIT 97-2 FOR OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE CATHOLIC CHURCH CARNIVAL
TO BE HELD FROM MARCH 5 THROUGH MARCH 9, 1997 ON THEIR CHURCH GROUNDS
LOACTED AT 219 SOUTH 9TH STREET IN IHMOKALEE - ADOPTED
Next item on our agenda is Item 8(A)(1), PetitionC-97-2, our Lady
of Guadalupe Catholic Church.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, motion to
approve the item.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. McNees, is there anyone here that
would like to talk us out of this one? MR. MCNEES: I don't believe so.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Mulhere, anything to add that is
unusual or extraordinary?
MR. MULHERE: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Then I will call the question. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none -- and good luck with
the -- This is March 5 through March 9. Everyone put it on your
calendar.
Item #8A2
RESOLUTION 97-134, AFFECTING ORDINANCE 88-50 ALSO KNOWN AS THE GADALETA
PUD, REQUIRING THE SUBMITTAL OF A PUD AMENDMENT PRIOR TO JULY 18, 1997
- ADOPTED
Item 8(A)(2), staff review and recommendations relative
to Ordinance 88-50 which is known as the Gadaleta PUD, and I probably
mispronounced that.
MR. HULHERE: No. You -- You got that right.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: All right!
MR. HULHERE: Mr. Chairman, Bob Hulhere, current
planning manager. Mr. Nino, who prepared this report, is on his way
up. Here he is right here.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Tie over his shoulder, jacket in one
MR. HULHERE: He'll be right up.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: At least you remembered your jacket,
Ron. Good morning, Mr. Nino.
MR. NINO: Good morning. I apologize for being tardy.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: That will be one -- one demerit.
MR. NINO: I can't afford any of those.
The Gadaleta PUD is a PUD which you've recently had a
considerable amount of exposure to. As a matter of fact, only
recently you agreed to restore a piece of commercial property to that
PUD. Staff in reviewing the PUD, as indicated in our executive
summary, advises you that the commercial zoning is inconsistent with
the future land use element, and for that reason alone we would
recommend that the petitioner return in six months with an amendment
to the -- to that petition.
However, as we indicated, there are a number of other
matters that are -- that are inconsistent with today's requirements.
The PUD is -- is dated by our standards, and we -- we think this
opportunity ought to be taken to bring this PUD into -- into -- up to
today's standards.
However, in the process we -- we think it is advisable
to give the petitioner some direction as to what they might expect in
the way of favorable consideration from this board, and staff has --
has recommended that -- that the revised PUD include a provision for
eliminating the C-2 commercial and, in lieu thereof, granting them
the -- the density that is authorized by the future land use element
for conversion of commercial zoning that is inconsistent with the PUD.
And -- and with that, that is our recommendation, that
the petitioner be advised to return in six months with an amended PUD
and that you indicate that it is appropriate for that document to
include a provision for converting the C-2 commercial to residential
at 16 units per acre.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Nino, did this parcel receive any
exemptions or exceptions to the zoning teevaluation process?
MR. NINO: It -- the -- The PUD was reevaluated and
found to be -- on the basis of compatibility with surrounding
properties, found to be appropriate for the 88 dwelling units. The
C-2 was a mistake --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. NINO: -- on our part. So the C-2 in all -- quite
frankly, never -- was never the subject of the zoning teevaluation
arm.
determination.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And this is the C-2 that by
scrivener's error some error was -- MR. NINO: Exactly.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- left out and just put back in
previously this year -- MR. NINO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- and now we're telling them to come
back --
MR. NINO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- and remove it.
MR. NINO: Exactly. Exactly.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Did we tell them that when they came
in earlier this year, that that was in all -- MR. NINO: No, we didn't. No, we didn't.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: It seems we could have avoided that
middle step, but I guess that's --
MR. NINO: Well --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- water under the bridge.
MR. NINO: -- they wanted to be made whole. And, quite
frankly, Mr. Ferguson is here. I -- I -- I think at this point in
time the petitioner actually prefers that the C-2 be converted to 16
units per acre --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Well, let me ask --
MR. NINO: -- but I'll leave that for --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- questions for --
MR. NINO: -- Mr. Ferguson to address.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Are there any questions for staff
from board members?
Seeing none, Mr. Ferguson, I believe, is the petitioner.
MR. FERGUSON: Good morning, Mr. Chairman,
Commissioners. Tim Ferguson for the record on behalf of Dominic
Gadaleta, the Gadaleta PUD. The -- The C-2 was, I suppose,
inadvertently not even considered when the zoning teevaluation
ordinance was -- was being considered -- when the property was being
considered for exemption from the zoning teevaluation, and that's kind
of problematic. The C-2 was taken out of the PUD by a scrivener's
error as well because what had happened was the person who was
representing the petitioner at the time gave a new property
description that inadvertently cut the C-2 out. We certainly believe
that the PUD as a whole is poorly written and certainly needs to be
addressed so we will be coming back. We would like to see some
density, and we think we may have some alternatives for the C-2 when
we come back, but certainly we would hope that the -- the board would
be able to give us the 16-units-per-acre density and the 88 units as
it exists now.
There also is some consideration of a LCF that we may
want to bring back before the board if -- if that's appropriate, and
we're just looking for any -- any guidance that the board has at this
time.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The -- It was always clear to your
client that there was C-2 zoning on the property; is that correct?
MR. FERGUSON: It's always been clear to my client. The
client's been running the golf range that exists there for some time.
I would suggest to the board that the C-2 is -- is probably -- could
probably be maintained on that property. We have industrial -- I'll
note for the record that right across the street is -- is industrial,
you know. To -- To the west, we have seven units an acre. Straight
across the street, we have industrial. So C-2 is -- is the next step
down from industrial. It's a nice buffer. But, you know, we believe
that C-2 probably isn't the highest and best use for the property, so
we're looking to change that use and we're just looking that the board
would keep our -- our densities there.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Well, I guess if you're -- if you're
looking for a -- a feel, obviously the specific discussions regarding
density modification to the PUD would occur when this item comes back
before us, but my preference in that area, 16 units per acre versus
C-2, is for C-2. I -- I'm not looking to maximize residential
densities on Old U.S. 41. I'm -- I'm sensing some agreement here.
So, you know, as this comes back, you may want to consider compatible
residential densities, or if it's an A -- if it's a -- what's now
called an ALF by the State of Florida, you may want to look at some
past petitions that have come through and how those decisions have
been made by this board for framing what you think is the highest and
best use, but I -- I, for one, am not -- not interested in 16 units an
acre in that area. I just don't think it -- it fits. I -- the C-2 --
I've used that driving range. I think it -- it works pretty well
but --
MR. FERGUSON: Well, just for purposes of clarification,
that would be 16 units averaged over the whole. We would be talking
about 115 units for the entire parcel which is well within -- You've
got the Arbour Lake Club, or whatever that is, PUD just to the west
which is seven units per acre, and it would end up being something
very similar to that so -- but -- but if you're going on the record
saying you'd rather see C-2, we'll take that into consideration.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I think I'd rather see something less
than 16 units an acre as a conversion because you had the opportunity
for --
MR. FERGUSON: That's only for 2 acres.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I understand that, but you had the
opportunity under ZRO to go for that voluntary conversion and request
that from the board. The property owner did not do that at that time.
So, you know, I -- I think you've committed to a path there, and --
and I -- I don't want to go back and -- and undo that, personally, but
that's the closest thing that I can give you to direction myself.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I agree.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Any further comments from the board?
MR. FERGUSON: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Ferguson.
Are there any speakers, Mr. McNees?
MR. MCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Might as well entertain a
motion.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve staff's
recommendation.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, we'll see this item
back. Thank you.
Item #8A3
RESOLUTION 97-135, CERTIFYING THAT THE IHMOKALEE MAIN STREET PROJECT IS
CONSISTENT WITH COLLIER COUNTY'S LOCAL PLANS AND REGULATIONS INCLUDING
THE GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN - ADOPTED
Item 8(A)(3), recommendation the BCC approve a
resolution certifying the Immokalee Hain Street project as consistent
with the Collier County -- I see local plan. I assume that means comp
plan.
MS. CACCHIONE: Yes, it does.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Good morning, Miss Cacchione.
MS. CACCHIONE: Good morning, Commissioners. For the
record my name is Barbara Cacchione of your comprehensive planning
staff. What we'd like to do is submit a proposal through the
Immokalee Chamber of Commerce who is the sponsor of this project
through the Main Street board of directors to the office of tourism to
use the enterprise zone for that area. This would enable people who
donate materials, building supplies to receive up to a 50 percent tax
credit for these items, and we think it would be a big incentive that
would be helpful to the redevelopment project in Immokalee. The
resolution before you is to certify that that Main Street project is
in compliance with our local plans, and it is.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Are there any questions
for Miss Cacchione?
COHMISSIONER BERRY: No.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, are there any speakers,
Mr. HcNees?
MR. HCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Do we have a motion?
COHMISSIONER BERRY: I move approval of the --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: -- resolution.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, thank you,
Miss Cacchione.
Item #8A4
RESOLUTION 97-136, ACCEPTING AND IMPLEMENTING THE ECONOMIC
DIVERSIFICATION PROGRAM, PHASE II, PRESENTED BY THE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC
ADVISORS AND PREPARED BY THE FLORIDA PLANNING GROUP, INC. - ADOPTED;
RESOLUTION 97-137, APPROVING ALLEN SYSTEMS GROUP, INC. AS A QUALIFIED
APPLICANT PURSUANT TO FLORIDA STATUTES; AND PROVIDING AN APPROPRIATION
OF $30,500.00 AS LOCAL PARTICIPATION IN THE QUALIFIED TARGET INDUSTRY
TAX REFUND PROGRAM FOR FISCAL YEAR(S) 1998 THROUGH 2002 - ADOPTED
Item 8(A)(4), resolution the BCC accept and implement
the economic diversification program, Phase II. Good morning, Mr.
Hihalic.
MR. HIHALIC: Good morning, Commissioners. For the
record, Greg Hihalic, housing and urban improvement. We have before
you today a resolution codifying the discussions that have occurred on
two previous occasions from this board on the economic --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Excuse me, Mr. Hihalic.
MR. HIHALIC: Yes?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'd like to make a motion we
approve this item.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Is there any questions of staff?
MR. MIHALIC: Yes. Yes, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. We have --
MR. MIHALIC: We really need some direction on -- on the
funding source that you would like to use to approve this. And -- and
if you look at the fiscal impact section of your executive summary,
you'll see that you really have two -- two options. One which the
plan recommends is using existing occupational licensing fees to fund
this program, and this would require either reducing other programs
currently funded by occupational licensing fees in MSTD General Fund
111 or increasing ad valorem taxes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But Mr. Mihalic -- I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Excuse me, Commissioner Mac'Kie.
Commissioner Constantine.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'm going to make my motion
include the second option which is increasing occupational licenses'
fees, and I need to know -- I need you to define for me what that
increase would be. But we have used occupational license fees toward
general funds, and I'm not prepared to increase the ad valorem tax
right now without some substitute, and I don't think we have at this
point a substitute for where that money will come from so --
MR. MIHALIC: I think the attorney's office is going to
have to provide some comment on how much we are able to raise the fee
statutorily versus what is required under the -- under this program,
and I'm not sure whether that's been done. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Weigel.
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you. There's always a -- a
limitation or a connection that must be between the fees and the -- to
what the fees are to be used, and there must be a -- a relationship
established. County attorney office addressed the board last fall in
that regard. I've had, knowing this agenda item was coming forward
and with the assistance of Mr. Smykowski, a discussion. We've talked
with the tax collector from an operational standpoint. An amendment
to the occupational license fee ordinance would have to be completed
and the information tendered to Mr. Carlton for the notices that he
sends out to the businesses by -- 1st of May he has recommended. So
there is a time frame within which this could be done.
Again, the amount of increase has to have a legally
defensible relationship to the elements that are being funded, and I
believe that relationship is to be -- it has been shown, and we need
to demonstrably show and -- and translate it to numbers from the
development services staff, and we can -- we can help them translate
that into the ordinance form if the board gives that direction today.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
Commissioner MacwKie, you had a comment?
COMMISSIONER MACIKIE: Yes. I -- I had seconded the
motion on the assumption that it included the full implementation
which -- which was the recommendation of the committee that we not
increase the impact -- Iim sorry, the -- the fees. So based on that,
Iill withdraw my second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The -- We, as a board, under a
workshop with Lyle Sumek dedicated or -- or identified economic
development and diversification as a goal of this board. Commissioner
Berry, you werenlt a part of that discussion. I donlt know if youlye
seen that document.
I like the -- the direction Commissioner Constantine has
taken for one reason: It ensures that it gets done. We donlt know at
this point whether welre going to have the funds available through the
budget cycle without raising taxes to take it out of the general fund.
What I would like to do is take action today that
ensures that it moves forward but leave ourselves the option that we
donlt have to raise those fees if we can find the funding sources in
such a way that that doesnlt become a -- a -- a reality.
We have made economic diversification a goal. Well,
letls prioritize it in the budget process and find the funds if we
have to take from other areas. I -- I think thatls reasonable. But
if we make that commitment that thatls the one and only way to do it
today, I donlt want to paint ourselves in a corner. I also donlt want
to, you know, completely chicken out here so --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No. I agree with you. If
that option exists as we get through the budget process, we should
certainly exercise it, but I donlt want that to be our first step
because particularly I -- Iim concerned that the public will see this
as corporate welfare. Welre taking away from some other program or
taxing them more in order to help business in the community, which
perhaps is the preference of the board, but I donlt want it to appear
as -- as our first choice if there are other options available.
CHAIRNLAN HANCOCK: I think we all understand, and itls
tough to convey sometimes that by diversifying the commercial or
industrial base, we are diversifying the tax base and taking the
pressure off of the residential taxpayer. Thatls tough to convey
sometimes. So the perception youlre talking about may exist although
itls not necessarily true.
COMMISSIONER MACIKIE: May --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner MacIKie.
COMMISSIONER MACIKIE: Just a couple of things. The
problem with the way -- with what I hear you saying is that we
wouldnlt be able to -- Welre going to either have to by May 1 have a
new ordinance increasing the occupational license fees or not. So we
canlt wait for the budget process this year to see if we can find
money. I would like to make the commitment that -- I -- I think our
community does understand, Commissioner Hancock, that -- that economic
diversification reduces property taxes as a net net, and based on
that, I think that it is appropriate for us to go forward with this
phase of the plan. As the plan goes forward, it may be that -- that
additional fees are necessary and that we can justify that as -- as
Mr. Weigel describes and -- and support an occupational fee increase,
but at this point we don't have the option of -- that you described.
We either have to by May 1 pass an ordinance to increase the fees so
that the notices go out or not. Because of that, I don't want to
increase the fees. I think that we should bite the bullet, recognize
that this economic diversification is a positive for property taxes
eventually and -- and not increase occupational license fees at this
point.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Smykowski, you had a point?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes, sir. It's -- Excuse me. For the
record, Michael Smykowski, budget director. I've got some relevant --
relevant information. As Ms. Mac'Kie indicated, the May 1 date
obviously precedes your workshop date which does not begin until June
18 at this point, and prior to the May 1 deadline, you would be going
through an advertising process and going through, I'm assuming, some
sort of public hearing to address the fee increase. So you're
actually working back -- at some point in April, you would be
advertising a public hearing for a fee increase.
In terms of the magnitude of the fee increase, I think
it's -- it's relevant to your discussion -- the magnitude that would
be required to fund the program if you opted to increase occupational
licenses to fund said program. Last year you funded an expansion of
the economic development program with two components. We ended up
taking money out of MSTD general funds reserves to the tune of $68,200
because it was too late to increase fees based on discussion with the
tax collector of the budget workshops last year. In addition, there
was a one-time revenue from a CDBG grant of $54,000 available.
If you -- Just to fund the existing program as -- as
currently programmed in Mr. Mihalic's budget, you're looking at a 28.3
percent increase in the occupational licenses to fund what is on the
books today.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And 28 percent equals how
many dollars?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: 128,600.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No, no, no, no, no. Per fee
how many dollars?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: I don't know. There -- there is --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I mean, per -- what -- What's
an occupational license cost right now?
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Depends on the --
MR. SMYKOWSKI: They're all over the board by category.
I --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: What's your average
occupational license cost right now? I mean, 28 percent sounds huge,
but if that's 7 bucks a business or if that's 1,000 bucks a business,
that makes a difference.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It depends -- it -- it's just --
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I know, but there aren't any
that that's going to be 1,000 bucks is my point, and -- and we're
looking at an average -- it may be -- how -- how much? Greg, you've
got to have a clue what our average occupational license is.
MR. MIHALIC: Again, off the top of my head, I would say
you're probably looking at $45 as an -- as an average. That's just a
guess.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: So 28 percent of that'll be
11 bucks, 12 bucks.
MR. HIHALIC: Yes, Commissioner.
MR. SHYKOWSKI: The -- The program, though, proposed in
your executive summary includes an additional $170,000 expansion of
the economic development program. So there you're looking at a total
magnitude of $307,600 or 67.8 percent if you opted to fund the full
economic development program from a fee increase. Before you make
that decision, you need to be aware of that. The full programmatic
effect would be about a 68 percent increase in the existing
occupational licenses.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yes, Commissioner Hac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: And as a -- as a part of that, we
would need to factor in Mr. Weigel's advice to us about being able to
justify the fee increase based on a delivery of a new service in -- in
conjunction with the fee increase.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Which I think is what this
plan would probably be, is we'd have a specific plan laid out. I
would assume that's a new service to the business community, Mr.
Weigel.
MR. WEIGEL: Okay. If I could respond -- and it doesn't
necessarily have to be a new service, but it could be a service that's
not previously captured but is legitimate to fall within the
parameters of the fee.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Hihalic, my question centers
around the collection of occupational fees currently. We did have an
increase last year; is that correct?
MR. HIHALIC: No, Commissioner. We haven't had an --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: That's right. It was the CDBG --
MR. HIHALIC: -- increase in ma -- in many years. Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'm sorry. We collect occupational
license fees for what purpose?
MR. HIHALIC: Pre -- Presently the money is put into the
HSTD General Fund 111 to fund general programs. It is not itemized
for any particular business services.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: But -- but we do have services within
the county that are business-specific that we don't charge them solely
for. I mean, there are things -- you know, hazardous material,
response preparation and those types of things that are more
business-oriented. Again, what I'm trying to quantify is if we are
collecting more in occupational license fees and we're spending in
services to the businesses then -- COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Right.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- then I need to know that because
if that's the case, then -- then using the balance of that for
economic development to diversify the tax base makes sense to me. I
just don't have a firm handle on that.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let me make a suggestion and
that is -- I mean, Commissioner Hac'Kie pointed out we've got till at
least Hay 1. Each of us are fairly bright people, I think, and that's
a couple of months away. There -- There's no reason why in the next
eight or ten weeks we can't do a little homework and -- and red-tag
some items looking at prior-year budgets that will likely come up
again in this year's budget. While we won't have our formal budgeting
workshops until June, there's no reason we can't get a consensus from
the board on some items that we don't think are as high a priority as
this. So we may not have the formal workshop, but in the next ten
weeks surely we can find some items, and that way I -- I'll have a
higher comfort level. I -- I think we're all talking the same thing
here. I just don't want to make a commitment to this before we ever
look at the budget process.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just -- May I respond? -- that I
understand that that is one way of going about this, but that's not
the only way. The fact is that the path that Commissioner Hancock was
on is also a valid one, and that is that historically -- I mean, as a
payer of an occupational license fee, I can't identify a service that
I get in return for that. I'm happy to pay it. I -- I will continue
to, and I'm not objecting to paying it. But I want you to recognize
that --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: You get on a lot of mailing
lists.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. Thanks a lot. But -- but
we should recognize that businesses in Collier County have for years
paid a fee for which they have not received a return commensurate with
the amount of the fee, and that coupled with the fact that we all
recognize based on the study that we had presented to us that this is
a net positive for general taxes. I'm prepared to go forward, and I'd
like for us to stick to our commitment that this is one of the top
five goals of Collier County and -- and let's -- we -- We don't need
to postpone it.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: I -- Mr. Chairman, I have a
question. You talk about existing programs. Do -- I'm not familiar.
What are the existing programs that are already funded out of this
particular fund?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Mihalic.
MR. MIHALIC: Out -- out of the fees -- Out of the fees,
there -- there's nothing, Commissioner. We set aside $180,000 to
start an economic diversification program, but we really have not
expended much of it because we wanted to wait until our economic
development plan is done. So we were planning -- plan -- I was still
planning to hire an economic development manager to handle this area.
There will be collateral materials that EDC will use to promote and
expand business. We will have money available, again, for staffing
within the county as well as support services, and that was what the
money was supposed to go for that was in the budget last year. Very
little of that has been spent --
COHHISSIONER BERRY: Oh. Well, okay --
MR. HIHALIC: -- waiting for this program to come
forward.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: -- because I was just reading where
it says we're already funding other existing programs in the HSTD, and
I just wanted to know what those other existing programs were.
MR. HIHALIC: Oh, no. I -- I misunderstood the
question.
MR. SHYKOWSKI: Perhaps I could clarify that.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: Okay.
MR. SHYKOWSKI: Again, for the record, Michael
Smykowski. The principal departmental operations in the
unincorporated area general fund are parks and recreation, code
enforcement, and the sheriff. Anything beyond that is -- is small in
terms of dollar scope. But the principal three, again, are parks and
recreation, code enforcement, and the sheriff.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: And that all comes out of
occupational license fees?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: No, ma'am. That's just part -- Those
are the principal programs funded in the unincorporated area general
fund, of which the occupational licenses are part of the funding mix
and I think --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Let me do this. Do we have
registered speakers, Mr. McNees?
MR. MCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I wonder if there's going to be a
second for the motion on the floor, if I could make another --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Let --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- motion.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Let me ask -- Commissioner
Constantine has made a motion to approve staff recommendation with the
second of the two funding options, which is increasing occupational
licensing fees to fund this program.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And let --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And let me just clarify that
to --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- to read that certainly we
can and should in the next week -- next ten weeks exercise the
opportunity to look for some alternative funding mechanisms, but I
think to -- not to do that would be shortsighted and -- and just --
there's nothing to prohibit us doing that and say, "Well, we will, so
we'll pass it anyway," I just don't think is good practice -- good
business practice.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Is there a second on the motion?
Motion fails for lack of a second.
Is there a motion on the floor?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I move that we approve and
implement the economic diversification program as proposed to us which
includes for the present year no increase in the occupational license
fees.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Mac'Kie, may I ask if
you would also include in that motion that -- Let's see. What are we
in? We're in February? -- that by April 15 members of this board
attempt to identify areas in which those revenues can be found?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Certainly.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And -- and bring that back for a
discussion item so that we provide ourselves a time table?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: May I ask what's the importance
of April 15 instead of just in the budget workshop process?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Tax time.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Because we -- because we have to have
a decision by May 1 if this is not a viable option. I'm trying to --
to cross the motions, if I -- if I may, to connect the two. If you --
If you don't agree with that, that's fine. I'm just -- What I'm
saying is, do your homework early, not late. Let's not wait until the
budget process to find these funds. Let's go out now and do it. Is
the -- the purpose of that -- if you're uncomfortable with it, then
don't add it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. My -- My only reason for
hesitating is I don't want on April 15 for this to have to come back.
I want this action today to be final.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, I would think the only
way it would come back is if we didn't find anything, and I'm pretty
comfortable -- I mean, this was, I think, number one priority of our
five so --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Right.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- I don't have any question
that we will find it. That was really my only concern. I want to
make sure we actually do that homework, and -- and by pinning
ourselves to a date, at least we come back and know what it is we're
looking to cut.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: How will we --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And a question for Mr.
Smykowski along those lines: How many dollars are we looking for
here? This -- This will take how many dollars out of the general
fund?
MR. SHYKOWSKI: With funding the entire program
including expanded scope, you're looking at 307,000.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Considering each year I've
come up with a -- a cut list between four and $11.9 million, I don't
think I'll have a lot of trouble finding 350,000 but -- MR. HCNEES: Mr. Chairman.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- I'd just like to pin us to
a date.
MR. HCNEES: Excuse me. The one thing we need to
clarify is we're talking about the unincorporated area general fund
area here which is a $9 million fund versus your countywide general
fund which is a $70 million fund, I believe.
MR. SHYKOWSKI: Hundred.
MR. HCNEES: Hundred.
MR. SHYKOWSKI: Hundred and ten.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: You're talking about a 3 percent --
MR. SHYKOWSKI: There's another thing -- another issue.
In speaking with Mr. Weigel, in terms of the Hay 1 is you would have
to have had your public hearing authorizing the fee increase already
and hand the tax collector a resolution with the new fee schedule.
Mr. Weigel indicates based on advertising requirements, you are
actually looking for an answer on or about the beginning of April just
to meet the advertising deadline to hand him a resolution with --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
MR. SHYKOWSKI: -- the proposed fee --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: It doesn't sound like we're going
that way anyway but -- but -- but thank you.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Yeah. I'm going to pass in
including that in my motion.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. There's a motion on the floor.
Do we have a second?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let me just clarify. So we
don't have -- Other than the budget season, we don't have any
intention of how we're going to fund this.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I -- I am prepared to -- to
recognize this as the top priority of county government.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And increase taxes for it.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Excuse me. If you wouldn't mind
if I finish. I'm prepared to recognize this as our top priority, and
to know that, I'm going to try to be cutting taxes in the budget
process, and this is one of many avenues that we'll have to be
examining during the budget process. I don't want to isolate this
one. It's our top priority. I'm ready to -- to put my money where my
mouth is and to be tough in the budget process.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Is that a dedication to ad
valorem-neutral I heard down there? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: You got it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: All right. Is there a second on the
motion?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and second. Any discussion?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, I want to vote yes only
because I don't want to go on the record not supporting economic
development, but I just think it's bad business and bad government not
to have some idea how we're going to pay for this and say, "Well,
we'll get to it in a few months." That's just poor planning.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. Well, it -- it's fine for
you to say that and disparage the rest of the board as -- as not being
concerned with those -- those items, but that's not the case. I'm
very concerned about having good government at all times, but I think
that we can certainly overcome the -- the -- the funding of $300,000
to fund our number one priority.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Any further discussion?
All those in favor of the motion state aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, motion carries 5-0.
Mr. Hihalic, Mr. Smykowski, thank you.
MR. SHYKOWSKI: Thank you.
MR. HIHALIC: Commissioners --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Hihalic, you had something else?
MR. HIHALIC: -- may I bring up a related issue to this?
In our past discussions, we have the economic incentive to Allen
Systems Group which has come up in the other previous two discussions.
We need some staff direction on that. The city has passed a
resolution authorizing the $30,500 incentive spread over the next five
years for Allen Systems Group, a high-wage employer that's moving into
the county with 60 additional high-wage jobs. Could you give me some
direction as to how you would like me to bring this back? The
original discussions were for doing a tax abatement procedure on that.
That requires a public referendum, is a very long-term process. Hay
I -- Hay I get some direction from the board on how you'd like me to
bring this back?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: In order to get that direction, Mr.
Hihalic, can you offer us what you feel are some options? Some had
been presented to me individually, but I wanted to make sure the board
had the benefit of those.
MR. HIHALIC: Yes, Commissioner. No money will be
required during this fiscal year for this payment. In the Fiscal Year
1998, our contribution would be approximately $3,750 during that year,
going up over the next four years, to a total contribution of $30,500.
I recommend that we pay that out of the economic development money
that you've allocated so far to my department and we use that as the
funding source and set aside the $3,750 out of that money.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So your recommendation is to use
existing funded EDC dollars -- economic development, excuse me,
dollars --
MR. MIHALIC: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- and not to add it as a line item
in the upcoming budget?
MR. MIHALIC: Yes, Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. MIHALIC: I -- I think that that would be the
appropriate way to use these unexpected dollars this year for this
commitment.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I certainly support that and --
and, frankly, would have -- would have expected that that was within
the discretion of -- of staff. Appreciate your bringing it back to
us, but that is exactly what these funds have been identified to be
used for, not this particular case. So it is good that we get the
opportunity to review this particular case.
MR. MIHALIC: May we reserve a resolution number
codifying this --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: In order to --
MR. HIHALIC: -- Mr. Weigel?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: In order to do that, I believe the
board needs to take specific action through the vehicle of a motion;
is that correct?
MR. WEIGEL: That is correct.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I '-
MR. WEIGEL: If you make the motion, they'll amend.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- move approval of Mr. Mihalic's
recommendation.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Is there any
discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none --
MR. MIHALIC: Thank you very much, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Mihalic -- and we will reserve a
resolution number on the record. Thank you.
Item #8C1
TERMINATION OF THE DONATION AGREEMENT BETWEEN COLLIER COUNTY AND THE
NAPLES ROLLER HOCKEY LEAGUE AND AUTHORIZATION FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A
MODIFIED ROLLER HOCKEY RINK AT VETERAN'S COHMUNITY PARK OR THE
ORIGINALLY APPROVED COVERED BASKETBALL FACILITY - APPROVED
Item 8 has been withdrawn.
8(C)(1) is next. Recommendation the BCC terminate the
donation agreement between Collier County and the Naples Roller Hockey
League, and we need to have some direction on this one. What -- What
fell apart here, Mr. Olliff?
MR. OLLIFF: Good morning. For the record, Tom Olliff.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: How's that as an intro to your
presentation?
MR. OLLIFF: As the board is familiar, the -- the county
entered into an agreement with the Naples Roller Hockey League to do a
joint project at Veterans' Community Park. The project entailed
construction of two roller hockey rinks, one to be covered, the other
uncovered.
The roller hockey league was, as part of the agreement,
to go out and fund raise, and aggressively they -- they felt they
could raise funds in excess of $250,000 which was their share of the
project cost. To be honest, I think their -- their primary fund
raiser who -- who had local strong financial connections was relocated
in his business to San Francisco, and -- and that left them without a
very good arm of their organization to be able to go out and fund
raise and left them more in the bake sale-type fund raiser which
doesn't generate $250,000.
It leaves us at the point where we have to make a
decision in terms of that project in order to have something
constructed at the park in time for summer when school is out. And
what's -- what's before you today is -- is two recommendations: One,
that we terminate that agreement, simply recognizing that they're not
going to be able to fulfill their end of the -- the fund-raising
portion; and, second, to have the board make a decision about whether
to go back to the originally budgeted project which was a small
covered basketball facility or to recognize the demand that is out
there for roller hockey and -- and try with our funds to go ahead and
build a roller hockey rink at -- at the North Naples park.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: If I may, Mr. Olliff, you know,
what -- I don't know if the balance of the commission receives the
phone calls but -- since a lot of them live in the North Naples area.
The demand for roller hockey is tremendous. The facilities we have
are overwhelmed, and I think a covered basketball facility, although a
nice element, diversifying the -- the -- the abilities out there -- is
that the word of the day, diversification? -- is something I would
like to see done.
So my -- my personal vote is to find out what funds are
necessary to create an in-line roller hockey facility out there, and
can we do it with the funds that were budgeted for the covered
basketball court.
MR. OLLIFF: In -- In answer to the question, I think
staff recommends that as well. Your parks and rec advisory board has
recommended the construction of roller hockey as well, and -- and
certainly Naples Roller Hockey League would like to see that
constructed.
The project can be built. It is a scaled-down version.
It would be very, very similar to the project that is at the East
Naples Community Park. It simply would not have the cover. It would
be built in such a way with the foundation and footers and stub-out so
that we could come back at a later date and actually put the cover on
it.
That project can be built with an additional amount of
funding of about $29,000. Now, we found $29,000 that is available
from a project which actually was constructed at Caxambas on Marco
under budget, leaving some funds available. So the board can actually
transfer those funds without impacting the current budget, without
adding any additional funds to the project that would affect reserves.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Are there questions of staff?
Commissioner Norris.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Mr. Olliff, are -- are there no
plans to use that 29,000 down at Caxambas at all or --
MR. OLLIFF: The -- the twenty-nine --
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: So it's just free --
MR. OLLIFF: The recommendation actually was sitting on
my desk at the same time when I was drafting the executive summary to
transfer that money back into reserves where it would sit un --
undedicated.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: So it won't affect -- You're not
robbing Peter to pay Paul and --
MR. OLLIFF: No, sir.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'm Paul, so I'm really not that
concerned. No, I'm just kidding. Commissioner Berry.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: I'd like to make a motion that we
accept staff recommendation to terminate the current agreement and go
ahead and construct this roller hockey facility and -- at Veterans'
Park.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And that includes the transfer of
$29,000 --
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- to accomplish that?
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Third.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. McNees, are there any registered
speakers on this?
MR. MCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. We have a motion and a second.
Is there any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, and we'll look forward to
summer in-line roller hockey. Great. Thank you.
Item #SD1
RECOHHENDATION TO SELECT THE NEWSPAPER FOR THE ADVERTISING OF
DELINQUENT REAL ESTATE AND PERSONAL PROPERTY TAXES - OPTION B SELECTING
NAPLES DAILY NEWS APPROVED
Item 8(D)(1) -- yeah, I'm sure there'll be a -- You want
to challenge the city council to a match, folks?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Wear your pads.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Item 8(D)(1), recommendation to
select the newspaper for -- I'm sorry. Did a second paper come to
town?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Yeah.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: I hope so.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Actually, I think we did have
bids from more than one paper on this.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Well, actually, don't we get the --
we do this in the regional areas of the county also with the Golden
Gate Gazette and the Marco Island Eagle and --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I suspect Mr. Camell will
fill us in.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: And we'll read about this in the
editorial tomorrow.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Good morning, Mr. Camell.
MR. CARNELL: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Members of the
Board. Steve Camell, purchasing director. You have before you an
action to award a bid for the advertising of delinquent personal and
real estate property taxes. This is a statutorily required action
that is executed and carried out by the county tax collector. And
what I've provided to you in a brief handout this morning is just a
summary of some of the statutory requirements and then a -- just a
very brief summation of the two bids that we received.
The state law does not require us to bid this. Our
county purchasing policy does, and that's obviously the reason for the
bidding process. Under Florida law one item that's not mentioned in
your handout is that the Board of County Commissioners is charged with
selecting the newspaper for this task by the end of February. So this
is our last window of opportunity today. And in the event that the
board fails to do so, the selection is made by the county tax
collector.
Briefly, we did put this item out for bid -- in fact,
twice -- in an effort to try to generate competition. In our most
recent solicitation, we did receive two bids, one from Tuff
Publications, publisher of the Everglades Echo, and from the Naples
Daily News.
The bid from Tuff is an offer to publish both lists of
delinquent properties, the one for real estate and the one for
personal property. The real estate must be published three times in
three consecutive weeks. The personal property is required to be
published once. They would be doing so with a circulation -- a paid
circulation of 1,000. They also are offering, in addition to
utilizing their circulation, providing 5,000 copies -- hard copies to
the tax collector's office for distribution through whatever means Mr.
Carlton's office would choose to do so. So if you take 1,000 copies
per issue of the Everglades Echo, you multiply by 3, 3,000, you add
the 5,000, we're basically buying 8,000 papers from Tuff if we award
to Tuff Publications.
The Naples Daily News is offering to insert both lists
of real estate and personal property into three consecutive issues of
the Daily News with an estimated circulation -- this would occur in
April of 1997. Estimated circulation would be about 56,000 per issue.
Multiply that by 3. A hundred sixty-eight thousand iss -- copies
would be circulated.
The Daily News has also thrown in a new wrinkle this
year. They are offering to put all of this information onto their
Internet site, complete with hypertext links to the front page of the
paper so that it would be prominently displayed to anybody surfing the
net when they come to the front page of the paper and then also the
ability to search by name or parcel number electronically in the net
throughout the document at any time, and that would remain live and up
through the sale of the tax deeds which by law takes place at the
beginning of -- no later than the beginning of June.
Now, to -- If you'll look at your second page -- Let me
first say that we opened the bids on Friday, the 14th, which was my
deadline for -- to the county manager to submit this recommendation to
you and that -- henceforth the reason why the executive summary did
not articulate a recommendation at that time. And what I want to do
is -- is present to you three options this morning and give you a
little overview briefly of each of the three and considerations and
then give you a staff recommendation.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: If I'm correct, you've already given
us an overview of the first two with the -- with only the -- MR. CARNELL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- addition of cost. The one that we
don't have is the third one.
MR. CARNELL: Yeah. Yeah.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I've got a quick question,
and we don't have a copy of the bids, so I don't -- I don't know
specifically, but it says Tuff Publications is looking at printing
this in the Everglades Echo. Their response does not include the
Golden Gate Gazette or the Naples Shopper or any of those? Because I
know combined they have fifteen or 18,000 or something, but those were
not included as part of this?
MR. CARNELL: That's correct. And I believe the
rationale for that -- and at the risk of speaking for Mr. Tuff, the --
the other publications do not meet the statutory test for being
newspapers of general circulation and they're not -- and many -- a
couple of those papers are free. This has to be a for-pay -- for-fee
newspaper to meet the test and has to be published weekly.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I had to start paying for a
subscription fee for the Gazette last year, so that's why I asked
that. I know the Shopper just appears in people's driveway but -- MR. CARNELL: Yeah. So, no, he did not offer any other
publications.
If I could give you some staff comment here regarding
what we received in the way of bids, we put this thing on the street
with the hopes of letting the marketplace work and give us some viable
competition. And in looking at the bids received and the circulation,
this is a -- we're put in a choice, and this is probably true any time
you buy media. You have to choose between the cost to buy the media
versus how many people you're going to reach and the demographics and
so forth and so on. And to keep this kind of simple, kind of a
cost-versus-circulation consideration, you can see on your second page
that to -- the -- the bid from Tuff is, of course, very affordable in
dollars and cents, less than $40,000 if you extend out the number of
copies times the unit price they offered. The circulation, however,
is very low, much, much smaller than the Naples Daily News, and it
produced an overall cost per household of $4.69. For the Naples Daily
News, the cost is roughly one-quarter of that, $1.17. You're paying a
whole lot more, but you're getting a whole lot more in terms of
circulation.
Now, a couple of things to keep in mind: The cost of
the advertising is ultimately borne by the delinquent property owner
or the buyer of the tax deed at the sale. So this is a cost-neutral
thing to the general taxpayer of Collier County.
Now, the third option here requires a little bit of
explanation. This was not contemplated in the bid. It's something
that's kind of, frankly, put together on the fly since the bid opened
in talking to both newspapers, and that is to award the statutorily
required work under Section 197 to Tuff Publications with the hope of
meeting that minimum statutory requirement and then contracting with
the Naples Daily News or -- I'm sorry, contracting out the printing of
the listed parcels and then having them inserted into the Daily News.
Now, let me explain this. The way this happens now and has happened
for years and years and years is that the tax collector's office
furnishes to the Daily News -- that's been the paper that's done it
every year in the past -- a diskette with all the parcels listed in an
ASCII format, and then the Daily News takes that from there and
creates the page, overlays a map of the county, and puts the
publication together, and then it physically inserts it in three
consecutive weeks during the month of Hay and the -- here it's -- in
other words, it's a -- it's a turnkey kind of thing for the tax
collector. He gives them a diskette, and he's basically done with it
other than reviewing the proofs and -- and blessing the issuance of
the document. And in this case we would be backing up a step. We
would be hiring a printer to print the inserts first and then
coordinating the delivery of the printed material and we're talking --
If we're talking about the Naples Daily News, we're talking about
168,000 mini-newspapers, if you will, or inserts would be delivered to
the Daily News. And then the Daily News, rather than doing that
preparation, would just physically insert them the way they would a
Shopper or some kind of promotional item. And so the -- on the face
of -- it's very tempting to consider this because you can see the --
the -- the circulation cost is considerably less or the cost per
household is considerably less than either -- than the -- using the
Daily News to do all of it for us.
Your staff, though, has some concerns with these
approaches, with really all three. None of them are totally desirable
from our point of view. The first -- Let me just say a couple of
things about each one of them. With regard to Alternative A, it's the
opinion of your --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Camell, let me --
MR. CARNELL: -- staff that your --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Before she may forget or -- or go
off --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thanks.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- to another issue -- Commissioner
Mac'Kie, you had a question?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, my question was, do we have
any input from the tax collector?
MR. CARNELL: The tax collector -- I've spoken to him,
and his position is he will abide by the wishes of the board and the
direction of the board in this matter.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Our tax collector?
MR. CARNELL: Our tax collector.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Just kidding.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But his --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Those aren't his verbatim words, are
they?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But --
MR. CARNELL: Those are his verbatim words.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: On this one.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. Part of his verbatim
words. But -- but did he have -- he voiced no opinion? I mean, I --
I would solicit his opinion since this is a process that -- you know,
we -- we print it, and he runs it. MR. CARNELL: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I might be able to help you
with that, actually, because I had inquired with Guy toward the end of
last year. This -- I think, if I'm not mistaken, the costs -- these
bids are considerably lower than what we've paid the last couple of
years per -- per inch and -- and Guy's concern is (inaudible) --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: He's saying no.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- but --
MR. CARNELL: Now, they're say --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Guy's con -- Guy's concern in
the fall when I had talked to him was we don't -- we'd never done any
bidding. We'd only had one paper, and until this year nobody else was
qualified, and -- and he thought it was worth the exercise, but then
he was going to leave that up to -- well, he was comfortable with
whatever we decided, but he thought it was a good idea for us to go
through the exercise, and if we could save a few dollars in the
process, obviously everybody wins.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Camell, I'm going to kind of
request a cut-to-the-chase from you. You've obviously gone through
the detailed elements of this and prepared all this information for
us. Why don't you give us your -- your best-case scenario on this.
MR. CARNELL: Okay. Well, my recommendation to you is
Option B at this point in time, and I say that with a little bit of
disappointment because I believe that what is being paid here,
$197,000, is -- is -- is expensive and I -- I, frankly, am
disappointed we're not doing a little better than that but I'll -- The
reasons why are I don't believe Alternative A is acceptable at this
point. Even if you meet the legal test, you're circulating to one
little pocket of the county, and I don't believe that's what any of us
are trying to accomplish here. I do appreciate Mr. Tuff bidding, but
I just don't believe it does what we need it to do for us.
Option C is very attempting, but as I said to you, it
was not contemplated in the bid. We -- we -- we -- We bid this as a
straight-up, "You do the whole thing for us, Mr. Newspaper." And,
frankly, the numbers I'm working off there are estimates to do all
those other intermediate steps. There is a logistical dance there
involved that's going to involve more effort on the part of Mr.
Carlton's office to monitor and coordinate and put this all together.
And the bottom line -- punch line is that, again, you -- you go
through all these hoops, and the general taxpayer doesn't benefit
either way.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I make a motion?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Just a second.
Commissioner Constantine.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I just -- I guess -- While it
may not be the general taxpayer, it's still money saved, and -- and
I'm looking for -- I appreciate and I -- I very much respect your
opinion, but I'm looking for a reason -- while it is an estimate at
55,000, I assume you're not 300 percent off, and I'm just thinking
if -- if we can get the same or greater circulation at one-fourth the
cost, what's -- what's the down side to C? And there may be one that
I'm not seeing.
MR. CARNELL: Well, as I say to you, I think you have
the potential of what looks great on paper blowing up on you when you
go to do it in terms of implementation. It's untested for us a little
bit. I haven't had a chance to go out and really price the market.
I'm taking estimates from both papers, actually, talking to them
verbally as to -- trying to arrive at those numbers and haven't put it
out in the marketplace. And, again, there is the time and effort to
have the tax collector staff work with the printer and do all the
coordination and then -- and -- and I really thought about this
because you -- the -- when you get back to the point of what have we
really saved and the -- again, the general taxpayer doesn't
necessarily benefit. I mean, I even toyed with the idea of, well, if
you lower the advertising cost, does that maybe raise the bidding
level at the -- at the tax deed sale because they don't have to pay as
much advertising freight, so to speak, and frees enough more dollars
to bid the actual purchase of the property, but you're talking $6.84 a
parcel versus $1.33. So in a one- or two-parcel situation, it's a 5
or $10 impact and --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I -- I think I see where
Commissioner Hac'Kie is going. I'll probably second that, but just a
suggestion that I assume we'll look at doing bid -- bids for next year
as well. Perhaps we can explore as part of that bid an alternative
like this so we have some real numbers to look at.
MR. CARNELL: Yes. I -- I would wholeheartedly agree
with that and be prepared to do that.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Great.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: I have a question.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Hot -- I'm sorry. Commissioner
Berry had something.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: No. The only question -- Do we
know how much -- every year with these tax sales, how much do people
use -- I mean, we have to meet the -- statutorily we have to meet
this; okay? That's fine. How much do people actually use this paper
or are those the --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: A lot.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: -- people who just pay attention
and know that this kind of thing comes out every year and this is
their thing, to come down and -- and exercise their right to bid on
these properties and so on?
MR. CARNELL: Commissioner Berry, that's an excellent
question of which I do not have an answer to, and that is one of the
problems with this whole thing. It's a whole lot of money, and we
don't really know the effectiveness when you get right down to it.
Now, there may be ways to try to investigate that further in the
future, but we don't know. The -- I will tell you the parties that
rely on it hopefully, of course, are the property owners themselves
and then the bidders.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: My personal experience from
attending the sales is that they do pretty heavy, because they will
come literally with that in hand.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: But those people know -- I mean,
they're there to do what they're to do in terms of this property, and
so they have made it their business to go ahead and get this paper
and -- and know what exactly they're looking for. I mean, I -- I just
think everybody needs to know you're looking at $200,000 here, and
that's going to the Naples Daily News. I have a real problem with
that.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: As much as that pains me.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Oooo! Pains you? I mean, it's
just like stabbing me in the heart.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Get that point, Gina.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: I don't care. I -- I'm sorry.
This -- This is just a -- a real itch with me, and -- and I've dealt
with --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry, I'd like to
welcome you to this board.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: I -- No. I've dealt with this
before because -- When I was on the school board, we had to publish
the school bus schedules every year, and that dollar amount just about
made you want to get sick. And then this is, you know, benefitting
children and this kind of thing and -- and it's certainly a service to
the community. But this just drives me absolutely crazy, and that's
the reason I want to know how much -- I know the statutes. I
understand all that. But I just want to know how much these papers
are actually used by people, and would they normally come down and
solicit this information anyway to go ahead and -- and do their
bidding on this project.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We -- We may be able to get that
information with Mr. Carlton having just a simple questionnaire
available to those individuals who show up at the ta -- the upcoming
tax sale --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Good idea.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- as to, you know, were they
notified by -- via mail list or did they -- COMMISSIONER BERRY: Right.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- hear about this in the paper and
show up on that as a source.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Because I -- I -- in the future,
granted, I don't think we can do anything and probably change the
situation this year, but, boy, in the future I'd really like to know
that. And I'm all for meeting the letter of the law and doing what we
have to, but I'm also not interested in spending $200,000 to do this.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Understood.
Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What I was going to ask is --
and -- and I think that -- that your questionnaire idea is a great
one, and I would ask if -- if someone -- perhaps, Steve, you could
communicate to -- to Mr. Carlton our request that he have such a
questionnaire. And -- and what my thought was that we ask him to
include on a questionnaire the possibility of using the Internet
exclusively. Then we would have some data to go to our state
legislature to ask them to amend the process so that -- just putting
it on the Internet, which we can do on the -- on the Free Net if that
might --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: In fairness if we -- and we
had this discussion once before. If we're trying to reach the general
public, while that number is increasing, there's an awful big chunk of
the population that is not on computer, is not --
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: But --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- on the Internet.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes. And we know, Commissioner
Norris.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have some cyber-free commissioners
also.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Cyber-free. But -- but -- But
depending on the answer to Commissioner Berry's question and the fact
that the people who show up at these sales are the ones who already
know what's going on, they look for this information. They would get
it if we made them pay five bucks for it. That's what I expect the
answer to be. I'd just soon be interested in that being included as a
question and this -- will move Option B for this year and commend Mr.
Camell for the work he did.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion on the floor. We do
have one speaker. Why don't we hear from -- Is it Mr. Erlichman? MR. MCNEES: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- hear from Gil. Good morning, Gil.
MR. ERLICHMAN: Good morning. Gil Erlichman. I reside
in East Naples, taxpayer and voter in Collier County. Approximately a
year ago under public comments, I addressed the situation of the
single newspaper -- so-called newspaper in Collier County, the Naples
Daily News -- I call it the Mullet Wrapper -- in the case that we are
paying to publish the agenda every Sunday in the -- in the paper and
we distribute the executive summary free of charge to the newspaper.
Now, I, as a member of the Taxpayer Action Group -- we pay the county
$440 a year to get the executive summary because without the executive
summary, we -- we're at a loss as to what -- what is going to be
taking place at the commissioners' meeting. So, you know, just that
five- -- five- or six-page agenda that we can read, we don't get any
information. So we have to buy that executive summary. I have no --
I have no objection to that. I'm speaking for myself. I'm not
speaking for TAG. But the idea of paying -- of distributing that
executive summary for the measly cost of $440 to the newspaper free of
charge as a -- as -- because it's, you might say, public information
is not fair. To me there should be a quid pro quo. If we're going to
give that free to the newspaper, well, the newspaper should give us
some -- some -- something free in return.
And, of course, this $190,000, whatever we're going to
pay the newspaper for the advertising -- the tax -- the tax
delinquents to me is -- is kind of rubbing our face into it.
And I have to agree with Commissioner Berry. You
weren't here last year when I addressed this situation with the $440.
It sticks in my throat. So I would like the commissioners to consider
charging the newspaper for the executive summary. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Erlichman. And I
remember us asking staff to look into that --
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I do too.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- but I don't remember the response.
I may have gotten it and forgot about it but --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And -- and the question, what do
they charge us to -- to print the advertising for the agenda, the
advertising of the agenda.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: If I may, before we go down that
road, let's resolve the issue in front of us. There is a motion on
the floor to -- for Alternative B, which is to award all work to the
Naples Daily News.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second.
discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Aye.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Aye.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Aye.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Opposed?
Aye.
Motion carries 4-1.
Is there a second on that motion?
Is there any
I was for C. I think we ought to try something new this
year.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Your --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: But --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- discussion on that wasn't
persuasive enough.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I know. That's because there wasn't
any.
Let's go to the second item. Mr. McNees, I -- I do
remember Mr. Erlichman's point, and it was that the right of
information to the media is -- is very, very clear; however, the
mailing cost and dollars associated with providing a -- information to
them is something that I don't think is a first amendment issue or --
or covered by any other area. So why do we not charge them? There's
a memo somewhere that has discussed this, but I don't recall it.
MR. MCNEES: I'm sure there is, and I don't recall it
either, but I can sure get that information for you. I know we also
provided packages to the other media outlets, the radio stations
and -- and such, but who we charge for what I can't tell you
specifically. We can provide that information to you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: If you would. I think it's been
done, and -- and if you would be so kind, copy Mr. Erlichman on it.
We have his address around here. MR. ERLICHMAN: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just related to that, when we --
I'd like a copy of that too, and I'd like to know at the same time,
are we statutorily required to publish the agenda in the Naples Daily
News? I think the answer is yes. And what's the cost of that?
Thanks.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Is there any further
discussion?
None? Thank you.
Item #BE1
RECOHMENDATION TO UPDATE THE DISASTER RECOVERY ADVERTISING PROGRAM,
INCLUDING THE PROCEDURES FOR ACTIVATING COHMUNICATION LINES, ANNUAL
DESIGN WORK REQUIRED AND PROCEDURES FOR AUTHORIZATING LEVEL OF
ADVERTISING AND PAYMENT FOR ADVERTISING - STAFF RECOHMENDATION APPROVED
Item 8(E)(1), update the disaster recovery advertising
program. This was continued when we had some questions regarding
expenditure of -- of funds for an updating, and also I think the
second item was --
MS. GANSEL: The telephones.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- was -- well, telephones --
MS. GANSEL: Oh, okay.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- but the second item was that work
that was directed previously was being asked to be paid when it was
the first that we had -- we had heard of it. So there's kind of a
gamut of issues here. Miss Gansel --
MS. GANSEL: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- good morning.
MS. GANSEL: Jean Gansel from the budget office.
Commissioners, Mr. Ayres is here, and I think that he would be better
able to address the questions that you had. And you're absolutely
correct; it was the design work -- update preparation design work that
was done for 1996 and that it would be an ongoing cost in future
years, and we were asking for your approval of both of those last --
two weeks ago, and you had some other questions.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Is it the board's pleasure to hear
from Mr. Ayres?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Sure.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. John.
MR. AYRES: Good morning. I'm John Ayres, the president
of Visit Naples, Inc. I'm not sure how to -- how to start. Maybe --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. What --
MR. AYRES: I -- I wasn't here the last meeting, so I
apologize that I'm -- I'm not fully up to speed on the question.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Well, John, why don't I hit you with
the first question that struck me, which is paying someone up to
$7,000 to annually update, in essence, media contracts. That seemed
excessive to me. I don't have a background in that field. One of my
colleagues does, and it seemed excessive to him also. So I -- I fail
to see how updating media contracts is a $7,000 line item. MR. AYRES: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: That was the first question.
MR. AYRES: All right. In answer to that question, I
think $7,000 is excessive as well. By way of a little previous
history and -- and maybe an answer to some of your other questions,
when the -- when -- when we -- it was agreed by the county commission
to go ahead with this disaster recovery fund, and perhaps I should
have been aware of it. Jean and I talked about it, but -- but I
wasn't, and I don't believe anyone on our committee was, aware of
exactly how the -- the contracts worked. And I think we've all had a
lot of conversations on the contracts involving anything to do with
the -- the tax dollars for the resort tax, and so this is another one
where I think there were some -- some issues that just weren't clear.
The -- The issue primarily that wasn't clear was that we
would, of course, have to update our entire media campaign every year.
What I wasn't aware of was the fact that -- that the contract as it
was written wouldn't allow for us to do that. Again, I can't tell you
why I didn't know that, but I don't -- I don't think any of us knew
that or were aware of that, and so at the time that -- that all --
that the county commission agreed on the funding for the project, I
think we all were of the opinion that -- that those updates were just
a part of it and it wasn't an issue.
The amount that -- that the ad agency charged this year
to prepare and update the entire program for almost a million-dollar
advertising campaign is $3,600. So the reason -- and -- and -- and it
may not be the best one but the seven -- not exceed $7,000 came as a
result of a conversation with Jean and I which was: So that we don't
have to go back to the well again, let's put a number in there that --
that we know no matter what we do -- because we may find ourselves
even having to redo some of this stuff. So we put a number of $7,000
in there and that's -- I mean, that's -- that's how it got there.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. AYRES: It -- It's also worthy to mention, I
believe, that -- that the advertising agency that did the update last
June still hasn't been paid so --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Was the advertising agency selected
done through a competitive bid process? MR. AYRES: No.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. AYRES: It was not.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. I think that's a secondary
concern, that if we're going to authorize annual updates, there should
be some level of bidding to ensure that we're getting them updated for
the most efficient -- and that bidding would provide us with a line
item dollar amount --
MR. AYRES: Correct.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- that says this is what you can do
it for, and I would like to see that resolved before deciding on who
does it and at what cost.
MR. AYRES: Before that decision is made this year, we
will competitively shop that and make sure that we're getting our --
the best --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: On that particular item, are there --
MR. AYRES: -- best cost on it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- are there questions?
MR. AYRES: There's -- There's specific issues not
directly related to the creative process. So there are multi -- you
know, thousands of firms that we could talk to, of course, that --
that could, you know, get the schedules redone and -- and what have
you. So, yes, I think that's a prudent and good idea.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Realizing sometimes there's a
need for continuity from year to year with the -- what the
international airport does for their marketing and P.R. is -- I think
it's every third year they actually go through a complete process on
that. It's something that just may be worthwhile on this, is -- MR. AYRES: Okay.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I don't know. On some of our
parks, it may be worth every year, but on particularly some of the
creative parts, we need some continuity there and -- but every third
year or so we need to --
MR. AYRES: Yeah. The creative --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'm sure you do but --
MR. AYRES: -- as -- as you know, was designed to be
pretty much timeless. So I -- I don't see us expending any funds at
all on -- on revamping the campaign, at least not --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Good answer. Good answer.
MR. AYRES: -- not anytime soon.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. So what -- on that line item
what you're asking for is an authorization for the $3,600 that was
billed in 1996. And then as far as an additional amount for 1997, we
would await a bid process and receive a specific line item back before
providing authorization for that. MR. AYRES: Correct.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Is that acceptable?
MR. AYRES: That's just fine.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. The second item, if you will
indulge me, was the -- the phone question, $4,500 to purchase
telephones and the -- the additional charges. Mr. Ayres, are you
quite up to speed on that one with us?
MR. AYRES: Well, I -- I -- I'm -- I'm as up to speed, I
guess, as I can be. Our recommendation originally was to lease this
system. We talked to Buddy Brunker at United Telephone. Buddy was on
our committee from the beginning, and so we felt that -- that United
was in a position to be of help to us and to -- to get the job done
correctly, and I think that the original lease amount -- you know,
when -- the big picture of what we need to have set up at our command
center probably was not unreasonable but -- and -- and considering you
never really -- you know, as we all know the telephone industry today,
you know, there's probably 100 firms you could talk to out there, but
you don't know who's going to provide the service, whether they'll
still be in business next week to provide the service, etc., etc. So
we felt that it was -- it made good sense to -- to stick with United
if we could, and we didn't think on a monthly basis that it was
excessive.
Somewhere in county government it was decided that --
that the lease arrangement was not a particularly good idea, and --
and the recommendation was made to purchase it. I -- I -- I will add
that -- that the conversations on how these things function left us in
a position where last summer we had all -- we'd gone to the extent of
creating this entire media campaign making sure we spent $3,600 to
update it, and the bottom line was that -- that -- and is that as of
today we still don't have a telephone system so --
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I think the question more was
the number. What -- What are we getting for 4,500 bucks? I mean, I
think our -- our package says eight phones, which -- which
Commissioner Berry just said to me is 562 bucks a phone. So are they
gold-plated phones? Are they --
MR. AYRES: I think it's the --
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- platinum phones?
MR. AYRES: -- technology that allows these phones to
multi-comm -- you know, communicate and to -- I mean, I'm -- I'm not a
telephone expert at all.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I -- it's -- it's a form --
MR. AYRES: I -- It's tough for me to answer the
question.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: This is in the form of a switchboard
system with multi-capabilities and all the programming. I mean, the
phones we have in our offices, there are functions on there that I
have no interest in learning how to use because I'll never -- I'll
never use them. But I think what you're getting is you're getting a
Cadillac phone system, but the -- the -- the purpose here seems more
specific than maybe the -- the supermulti-media package requires.
You're really looking at responding to incoming inquiries, if I'm not
mistaken, and conference-calling and things that are available
currently through hard system or mainframe options now.
Commissioner Berry, I know this was something you had
some discussion on. Do you have specific questions on it?
COMHISSIONER BERRY: No. I just wanted to know what we
were getting for that --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yeah.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: -- amount of money and what kind of
phones these were and -- and just exactly, you know, what -- what it
is that -- that -- that is so special about this. I -- I -- and, you
know, the phone activation -- you're going to maintain one line. Is
this -- you're -- You're going to start this maintenance of one line
now? Is that my understanding of this? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Miss Gansel.
MS. GANSEL: Yeah. If I could ask Mr. Camell to
address that. He -- The purchasing department has worked with the
committee and with the telephone people and would be better able to
address that.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Camell,
welcome back.
MR. CARNELL: It's been a long time. The -- just two
things. Number one, if I could, on the -- on the functionality
question -- and this was six, seven months ago when I looked at this
proposition, and I don't remember all the details, to be honest with
you, of the system, but I think, Commission, Mr. Chairman, you hit the
salient point. We're not buying eight stand-alone phones here. We're
buying a switch system to go with the eight phones. And the idea here
is that we are -- this is a system that can go off to the side -- in
the can, if you will -- and when it needs to be mobilized, it's put
into gear very rapidly and quickly with all the bells and whistles and
all the connection points and all the technology there. So there is a
switch that drives the whole system that is installed as part of that
$4,500, and then there are a number of functionalities that go with it
as well that enable it to process calls on an automated basis for
voice and fax and data.
The other thing that's important to just briefly cover
with regard to the decision to outright purchase that did come from my
office, the recommendation to outright purchase, and that was based on
follow-up conversations with the UTS representative and a committee
member, Allison Blankenship, and the -- when you -- when you sat down
and you run the cost of a lease, the lease acquisition would be in
excess of $6,000, and I believe it's over a three-year period. And
in -- in a -- in a private-sector business arrangement where there may
be tax depreciation concerns and other advantages to leasing, that's
one thing. Here we're talking about spending $1,600 more with no
apparent reason. We have the funds available. It's not like we have
to schedule this thing out to collect the taxes later. We have the
money. Why not save $1,5007
The only down side I could -- you could argue against
purchasing from my point of view was that if you buy something, you're
kind of stuck with the technology; however, in a lease arrangement
talking to UTS, they didn't say, oh, we'll come in and give you a new
one that -- that beams you all over the planet when technology is
available if it comes out six months from now. They're basically just
financing your acquisition over a three-year period and you're --
guess what? -- stuck with it under a lease arrangement so --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. Just for what it's worth,
I have a law firm with five people in it, and my phone system, which
isn't the fanciest thing in the world, was about $3,300, a little over
3,000 bucks. I went back and looked in conjunction with this. And it
doesn't walk and talk, but it does fax and data and modem and that
stuff so --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- I think that's just what they
cost.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I think that's a good point of
reference.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Hooks you up to the Internet.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Hooks you to the Net, my God.
MR. AYRES: And if I may, the holding capacity -- the
storage capacity of incoming calls was very important to us so that we
weren't in a position where we weren't answering the telephone --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah.
MR. AYRES: -- which is --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: A busy signal.
MR. AYRES: -- an appropriate issue. People are going
to be concerned and interested and want to know, so we needed to know
that we -- we have the right system.
I would also add that it was -- it's actually almost
three years ago that we started the conversation on what type of phone
system we were going to have. So --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: You're already outdated.
MR. AYRES: -- it's not quite as fresh in my mind as it
might have been.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Any further questions on that
item?
Seeing none, do we have speakers on this, Mr. McNees?
MR. MCNEES: None further.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Do we have a motion by a
member of the board?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve the item.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Let me clarify
that. That is to pay the $3,600 billed for 1996 and to await a
specific amount after competitive bidding for 19977
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Right.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And to approve the phone purchases as
in the -- listed in the executive summary?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
MS. GANSEL: And we will -- We'll bring back a contract
that will incorporate not necessarily for the payment of the 3,600 but
exactly the procedure to put into place the ads if that should become
apparent.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Hopefully on a consent agenda.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And I'm sure the county attorney's
office will assist in making sure that contract reflects the -- the
needed elements.
Is there any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none --
For the purposes of giving our -- our court reporter a
break, why don't we take five minutes -- MR. AYRES: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- a little more than five minutes.
Thank you, Mr. Ayres. We will reconvene at 10:30.
(A short break was held.)
Item #8E2
FUNDING TO NETS ASSETS, INC. D/B/A/ NUVEEN MASTERS FOR $390,000.00 FOR
ADVERTISING AND PROMOTION OF TENNIS QUALIFYING TOURNAMENT, TOURIST
DEVELOPMENT CATEGORY C FUNDS - APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We're going to call to order the
February 25 meeting. We are to Item 8(D)(2). [sic] This is a request
to approve funding the Nets Assets, the Nuveen Masters advertising and
promotion of a tennis-qualifying tournament. This is Category C,
tourist development funds. Good morning, Miss Gansel.
MS. GANSEL: Good morning, Commissioners. Jean Gansel
of the budget office. The Tourist Development Council had received a
grant application from Net Assets. The applicant was requested to
revise their application to conform with the new Category C
requirements. They revised their application. It was for $390,000
for advertising and promotion for a tennis amateur-qualifying
tournament to be held in Collier County in October.
In Category C currently we have $291 and -- I'm sorry,
$291,250. I project that within the next two months we will collect
approximately 100,000 so that there will be sufficient funds without
dipping into the economic reserve that we have prior to any app1 --
request for funding that we would have.
The applicant is here. They're prepared to make a
presentation or respond to questions, whatever is the desire of the
board.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Let me -- and the applicant can
prepare for a presentation, but let me go ahead and -- and at least
offer what the Tourist Development Council felt on this matter. This
item was heard twice. The first was, in essence, linked very closely
with the Nuveen Masters tennis tournament as -- as far as really not
separating the two events, and after that meeting they came back and
really refined the proposal. What this is doing is drawing tennis
players in -- and we're not talking about your average tennis player.
We're talking about a 5-0 or 5-5 rating, which apparently is a very,
very low percentage of -- of players. These are your -- what you
would almost call a -- a pro-quality player who doesn't play on
tour -- drawing them in in the summer months for a tournament that is
to last over a three-day weekend and associated events to keep them
here. Obviously they have to have somewhere to stay. They're going
to eat here. It's a minimum of 500 players. There is an -- a fiscal
impact that has been provided. And the TDC unanimously approved this,
and I think it's got some -- some very -- very substantive merits,
particularly in light that it's the first application since we have
revised Category C guidelines and appears to meet those guidelines.
So there is a presentation that they -- they have brought today, but I
wanted to offer that. Commissioner Constantine.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: It's interesting. When I did
Leadership Florida a couple of years ago, one of the first meetings we
had talked about economic development and -- and developing new
tourism in particular and -- and off-season stuff, and -- and one of
the ways they talked about was sporting events like this. And -- and
in the larger cities, they think of baseball, football, and so on, and
everyone from smaller communities like ours raised their hands and
said, "Well, you know, wait a minute. That doesn't work for us." And
there was actually a very good presentation talking -- There's one
community in Florida that has the World Archery Foundation or whatever
they're called. The same idea: They bring in 300 archers, and they
stay for a week or something. And -- and they said, when people think
of sports, unfortunately sometimes they think of the three or four
primary sports and forget there's an entire world out there. But
something like this is exactly what they're talking about, and -- and
I think it's a great tool to bring people in and fill the place up and
spend some money in the summertime.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And -- I'm sorry. I didn't -- didn't
tell you what the hook is. The hook is this is a doubles qualifying
tournament, that the winner of this tournament plays in the Nuveen
Masters on the same courts against the same teams that you see there
every year for a chance at maybe winning a doubles title with the
Nuveen Masters. And the Nuveen Masters' final event is the Road to
Naples Event that occurs here in March. So they would come in later
this summer for this event, and if they win that tournament, it would
be like, you know, me going out and ending up playing in a PGA event,
which we know will never happen, but the opportunity to do that
would--
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Think of the odds.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- would be a significant draw. So
it's -- it's a neat idea. It's a way of tying the two together. And
the advertising and promotion of the event is where these dollars are
going. So with that, I guess we'll -- we'll -- I may have just made a
presentation for them.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: Mr. Chairman, I think --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yes?
COHMISSIONER BERRY: -- if -- as -- if I read this
correctly, this was -- this was slated for October --
year.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
COMMISSIONER BERRY:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
COMHISSIONER BERRY:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
Yes.
-- of '97?
Correct.
Okay.
That's correct.
October of this
We -- Why don't we go ahead and just kind of open the
floor to questions of you first, and if -- if there is -- is
substantive -- substantive issues, then we'll -- and you feel the need
to go into your presentation, we can do that. Commissioner Norris.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Yes. I would like to ask what
sort of advertising and promotion you're going to do, if you could
answer that for me, please.
MR. BREHM: Okay. Is this on? The advertising and
promotion --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Your name for the record, please.
MR. BREHM: Henry Brehm, and I'm executive producer of
the Nuveen Tour and an officer of Net Assets which is the applicant.
The --
Maybe we just want to put up the television.
It's extensive. As Commissioner Hancock -- Hancock
stated, that the playing level is quite high. We expect that there
will be a few people who think they can compete, so we have to track
people from not only the -- Naples -- and we actually only expect a
very small number coming from the Naples community -- all of Florida
and probably extending midwest up -- and up -- up and down the -- the
eastern seaboard to secure a number of players. So the number one
advertising vehicle is television, both on cable television during
senior tennis events and network television during a premiere senior
tennis event in August where we would actually put a spot that would
share a spot in a vignette which we proposed in our -- in our
document. That would be both a vignette about Naples and a
promotional spot or an advertising spot to sign up for the -- for the
event, of which we would be taking the calls.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you. That answers my
question.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The -- Tell me if this -- if I
remember this correctly. There would be -- You would try and limit
the entrance from the Naples area so that we are, in essence,
requiring out-of-county or out-of-region people to come in so it will
increase our room nights? Is that --
MR. BREHM: Sure. Any -- Anytime you -- you do a
promotion, you want to create the demand out there in -- in
advertising, but there's limited opportunity. So we're obviously
going to go -- I mean, this -- the program is really not about tennis.
It's about economic impact and you ta -- you -- you ex -- you told us
that. You taught us that. You've drummed it into our brains over and
over again. We get it. Quite frankly -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: You're welcome.
MR. BREHM: -- if we wanted to make it about tennis,
we'd have it in New York City in October where -- or Los Angeles where
there's the greatest amount of participants that have to travel the
least distance. That doesn't answer your question. We're a loyal
group. There is a linkage, although the event isn't in -- in March,
to the Nuveen Masters which is next week. That's the hook, as you
stated. The hook is being able to play in the same court. But let's
face it, you know, we all grow up. My kids -- everyone grows up with
these heros, and they don't dump them. I mean, there's a lot of
45-year-old men like me still saying, "I wish I could have," or, "I
wish I would have," and we need that linkage. That's why it's here in
Naples during the off-season because it's good for -- it's obviously
good for you.
The -- by -- by -- By limiting numbers from -- either by
state or by county will direct the hotel stays, will require a deposit
so they can't -- so at least we have something that they can't get out
of, but that's really the only way to do it. Once we get past a
certain minimum, then we'll come back and say, okay, now we're willing
to take, you know, so many more from Georgia and so many more from --
from Massachusetts or Atlanta or -- or Naples, for that matter. And
that's all done today. That's not something we have to create. There
is an organization called the USTA, United States Tennis Association,
that already qualifies players, so we can do that.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And because they have to come in for
the event on that weekend, tracking room nights and so forth is going
to be a part of the program?
MR. BREHM: Yes. Yeah. We will track it. As I said,
we will -- we will take the orders because we want to hook them on the
program, and, oh, by the way, they have to stay overnight. We're
looking at a variety of -- of -- of events or -- or other activities
in order to extend the stay -- stay, bring your family. So hopefully
they'll come for Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, come Wednesday
night and -- and bring their 2.2 kids or -- or whatever it is -- to
watch them -- watch them play.
This is not a tournament where the public is going to
come out and watch. It's a tournament for the public. And let me --
let me correct you on one thing. It is not -- or what Jean said.
It's not an amateur tournament. I mean, we're offering $25,000 in
prize money, not from your funding, funding that we're -- we're
contributing, and that's a big hook too because that's the -- the
largest first -- For a tournament of this size, it doesn't sound like
a lot of money compared to the pros, but most of these players have
never earned a penny.
Now, we think that the future is to raise the prize
money which will eventually grow -- you know, the tournament, from --
from year to year. And if we can grow the tournament with
participant-paying application fees, then it will become
self-sufficient over time. We have budgeted to secure outside
sponsors. We think we have a direct link being here on a year-round
basis in Naples to do that.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Are there further questions of the
petitioner? Commissioner Hac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Just a -- a question and -- and,
of course, the -- the balance of the board would have to want this,
but might we get a -- a follow-up report since you are going to be
able to track the room nights and, you know, give us a report after
the event on hopefully its success?
MR. BREHH: Oh, absolutely, with dollar amounts.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Would the rest of the board like
to have that? I mean, we could ask for that within a month or so
or -- You tell us when, but let's go ahead and set a date to have that
sort of follow-up status report.
MR. BREHH: I think we can give you a report because we
will funnel the -- the request to the hotels. The one thing that --
that we'd like to work with somebody on, we're not sure how to -- how
to -- how to quote what they -- what the ancillary money is that they
spend. We've come up with a number in our budget that they're going
to spend $100 per room night per room per day, two, three, four
people. It's somewhat arbitrary. We checked around and did our
research, but we're not sure how to -- how to present that. We can
present the hotel stays. We can present what they buy from us and
what they buy from hotels.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: What I'd be most interested in
personally is hotel room nights. I don't care how much they pay for
them or --
MR. BREHH: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- you know, I'd like to know how
much -- how many beds we sold.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, it would be interesting
to see what the economic impact is, and we have our economic guru,
Greg Mihalic, here in the room, and perhaps you can help, particularly
with some sort of formula plugging in here what the impact may be.
October is traditionally one of the slowest times, so that's ideal.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right.
MR. BREHM: There -- there -- There's another issue that
you should know here too in -- in the marketing of Naples and one of
the reasons that we selected Naples for the Nuveen Masters. I have
extensive research. Aside from the beautiful weather in March is that
you have over 300 tennis courts here. I mean, there's extensive
tennis facilities. So we saw that there's some base here and -- that
this community must have used or the -- the -- the business people in
this community must have used tennis as -- as a marketing vehicle.
You go to other southwestern communities and you find tennis as an
ancillary activity to golf. And I know golf is big here too, but you
have a number of facilities here in Naples with tennis only and not
golf, and that's quite -- quite unique. And tennis this past year --
it's been flat for many years, but some research was just reported at
the super show where all the manufacturers show their -- their wares
that actually grew by 8 -- participants grew by 8 percent this year,
which is about a million -- a million people, which is good for the
sport.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: How are you going to deal if we
happen to get a week of inclement weather and it happens to be the
week of this tournament? What -- What can you do?
MR. BREHH: They have to stay over an extra night.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: Just -- just so there's, you
know --
MR. BREHH: Yeah. That -- that -- We're going to have
to look at the schedule and the timing. It's open. We've said
October. It may be September. I know we have to stay away from late
October, November because of -- of the rains. But basically there's a
lot of clay courts. There are soft courts in Naples. They dry very
fast -- fast. And this happens all the time because in most tennis --
most adult tennis tournaments, almost all of them are on weekends in
the United States. So whether that rolls over to a Monday or that
rolls over -- or we have to shorten certain matches from best of three
sets to pro sets, it happens. It's going to -- you know, it's going
to happen. We have to be ready for it. And it also may mean doubling
up on the facilities. So if it's raining, we get rained out on
Thursday, and we have to play twice as many matches on Wednesday. We
have to have another 30 or 40 courts on hold, and they're here in
Naples, and they're quite available --
COHMISSIONER BERRY: So you're prepared --
MR. BREHH: -- in October.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: You're prepared to deal with --
MR. BREHH: Sure.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: -- that kind of a situation?
MR. BREHH: Yeah. You're not talking a tremen -- You're
not talking about much incremental expenses. It's just coordination.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Do we have any further questions for
the petitioner?
Do we have any registered speakers?
MR. HCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The one item you have asked on
several occasions in this application, that someone be designated as
the point of contact in working with the vignettes and the spots.
I -- I guess, although they are not a decision-making board, whether
it's the TDC or whether we want Visit Naples, Inc., to be the reviewer
and committee for that -- is there any feel from members of this board
on -- my -- My feeling is that maybe a member of the TDC should be
appointed by that body to work --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's fine.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- with them on the position. Is
that acceptable?
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I like that.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Do we have a motion on the
item?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I'll make a motion to approve the
item with the -- the addition that we -- we appoint someone from the
TDC to work with them on their production of the TV spots. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Would you add to the motion that
it includes coming back -- I mean, could we say within a certain
amount of time, maybe six weeks of the completion of the event, for a
report to the board on its success?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Is six weeks acceptable to you,
sir?
MR. BREHM: I -- I think so. I don't see why we
wouldn't have -- The only thing that we probably wouldn't have at six
weeks is all the media clips that come from the aggressive effort
around the country. But the hotel rooms, I don't see why we wouldn't
have that the day after the event.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. Yes, I'll amend my motion.
MR. BREHM: Yeah, six weeks I think is fine.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. We have a motion --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- and a second. Any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, thank you.
MR. BREHM: Thank you.
Item #9A
RESOLUTION 97-138, AMENDING RESOLUTION 96-590, AUTHORIZING THE ISSUANCE
OF NOT EXCEEDING $16,500,000.00 IN AGGREGATE PRINCIPAL AMOUNT OF
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, SPECIAL OBLIGATION REVENUE BONDS, SERIES 1997
- ADOPTED WITH AMENDMENT
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Item 9(A), resolution amending
Resolution 96-590 authorizing issuance of bonds. This is for the
Naples Park storm water system.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Do we have speakers or --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Do we have --
MR. MCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I -- I'm not sure there's a necessary
presentation here. Mr. Weigel.
MR. WEIGEL: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have a
resolution before you today. Mr. Art Ziev, the financial advisor, is
here in case there are any questions.
Art, I don't know if you want to have any particular
presentation for the board at this point.
But we did want to be able to field any questions that
-- that -- that might pertain. Obviously the action before you today
is based upon changing more favorable market conditions, and -- and
Mr. Ziev is here if you have any questions.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Ziev, in a nutshell, this is a
good thing.
MR. ZIEV: Yes, this is a good thing.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Good answer.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Are there any concerns that you want
to raise to this board on this item?
MR. ZIEV: No. I just want to inform you that we had
originally thought that the market might improve in January to
facilitate the issue getting done. The market didn't cooperate;
however, it is cooperating now, and so with your passage of this
resolution, we may very well be able to sell this issue, which is
converting some of the -- the variable-rate commercial paper to fixed
rate by the end of this week and perhaps next week at the latest.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: What --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Are there --
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: What -- What do you expect to get
as an interest rate? What is the market showing right now?
MR. ZIEV: We think that the final maturity of this
issue is 2004, and we think the interest rate will be about 4.45
percent. But most of this debt is actually even shorter than that,
and the earlier maturities are in the range of about 3.6 to 4 percent.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Sounds like the -- the bond payers
are going to have a pretty good interest rate on that. Okay.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Do we have further questions?
Any speakers, Mr. McNees?
MR. MCNEES: No speakers.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, do we have a motion?
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
MR. MCNEES: I think Mr. Ziev is indicating he's got
another comment to make.
MR. ZIEV: In -- in -- In the resolution there was one
blank, which is on page 3, Section 6, which is -- When the original
resolution was passed, the finance committee recommended and you
adopted that the financing only proceed if the all-inclusive interest
rate which incorporates all the cost of issuance does not exceed 4.6
percent. This number was chosen just as -- We looked at the ten-year
variable rate average and the five-year variable rate average and sort
of took a number in the middle sort of just to set a target.
As I said, the market had not been there, we weren't
getting there, and so we did some analysis to say, well, should --
should the county proceed with the financing or not, should that
target be adjusted. By raising the target from 4.6 percent to 4.75
percent, that increases the annual payment in the early years by no
more than $14,000 and trailing off to $700 in the later years.
So we wanted to know whether you would be willing to
proceed if we were not able to lock in interest rates that got us to
the 4.6 percent but I want to -- the thing is, in the two weeks that
we presented this resolution to the -- to staff, interest rates are
now to the point where we will hit the 4.6 percent target but I
can't -- obviously can't assure you that by Thursday or next week we
still would be able to.
So if you would like -- if -- if you would deem it
appropriate to change that number to 4.7 percent or 4.75, it gives us
a little more leeway if the market does start to move away. And in my
own opinion, I think that $3 million of debt service versus 2,990,00
is not that significant and still accomplishes the primary goals,
which is to eliminate interest rate risk and to eliminate the
balloon-financing risk.
MR. MCNEES: From staff's point of view, going back to
our original discussion, which is probably eight months ago by now,
six or eight months ago when we talked about this, those were the two
issues we were concerned about, the balloon payment that would be
coming due and the -- the interest rate risk.
Staff's opinion is that the -- the marginal increase in
the debt service payment doesn't substantively change the analysis.
Given where we were in the market, we were better off to go ahead, fix
these things, and -- and go forward without the balloon risk and the
interest-rate risk. Art, I think, is fairly comfortable that we will
probably hit the 6 -- 4.6 anyway but would like a little bit of leeway
that if we're right on the margin, that we don't -- that we don't
cancel the deal just because we barely missed the 4.6.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Does the motionmaker wish to amend
the motion to include a maximum 4.7 percent?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I'll amend.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Second amends.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. The resolution shall reflect
no more than 4.7 percent per annum. Is there any further discussion?
I'll call the question. All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, motion carries. Great.
Item #10A
RESOLUTION 97-139, APPOINTING MAURICE DEVITO TO THE PUBLIC VEHICLE
ADVISORY BOARD - ADOPTED
Item 9(A) -- We're on to Item 10(A), appointment of
members to the public vehicle advisory board.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, it appears
there's one opening and one applicant -- applicant. I'd like to make
a motion we approve Maurice DeVito.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Second it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: All those in favor signify by saying
aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
Seeing none --
Item #10B
INTERIH COUNTY MANAGER CONTRACT WITH BOARD OF COUNTY COHMISSIONERS -
APPROVED WITH A SALARY OF $95,000.00
Interim county manager contract with BCC. This is an
item that was placed on the agenda by me for two reasons. The first
is that we, as a board, are authorized really to give direction to
staff through our contract employees of which we have three. The
county manager's position is one of those. When Mr. Dotrill left, we
no longer had a contract employee in that position, and I felt it was
necessary for the proper chain of command to be in place and the
contract to be approved.
The second item in the contract that I think is -- is
important is that the contract has a blank that designates the -- or
indicates the salary for the interim position. It has been the
history -- the recent history of the county, if people are appointed
to interim positions, that they are appointed at the salary the
position was paying the previous applicant or previous person. And --
and I'm -- I'm stating that in a gross manner, but that's roughly
correct.
What I am suggesting is that we approve the contract in
front of us, but instead of the salary that was paid Mr. Dotrill at
his departure, that we -- we include a salary of $95,000 for the
interim county manager. That is my suggestion but open for
discussion. Commissioner Constantine.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: A couple of questions, and
one, if the board wants to do a contract, that's fine. I guess when
we decided to install Mr. McNees as interim, one of the reasons given
by at least a couple of the member of the boards was that that's how
our ordinance reads, is that the assistant county manager will fill
that slot, and -- and as long as he is filling that slot and doing so
in an acting capacity, I assume -- and maybe Mr. Weigel can help me --
but I assume we are not bound or tied from giving direction despite
the fact he is only acting county manager but because it is by
ordinance. And, again, I don't have any objection if we want to do a
contract. I'm just asking if it's necessary. And then I'll address
the second item maybe after Mr. Weigel responds to that.
MR. WEIGEL: Okay. Well, the -- the ordinance does
provide that the acting county administrator, as they term it in the
ordinance, may be designated -- that the assistant county
administrator may be designated as the acting county administrator.
The purpose of this agreement, my understanding is, is to make clear
that being placed in the position of responsibility, there would be a
salary that is provided that based on the ordinance could not
otherwise be provided, and that is the fact that the county manager
has been a contract employee with the Board of County Commissioners,
and as an approved acting or interim county manager, Mr. McNees would
not be under contract with the board. The board has no technical
ability to contractually increase the salary from what it was left
prior to Mr. Dorrill's departure.
Secondarily, this contract does provide and takes into
account that Mr. McNees has been before this board as -- and -- as a
selectee for assistant county manager previously, and this would
assure by contract, public record, that he would return to that
previously approved post of assistant county manager upon either the
termination of the -- of the selection process and the -- and -- and
the selection of a new county manager should it not be Mr. McNees, or
if during the course of the period where the board has accepted and
approved Mr. McNees as acting county manager, if the board should
determine that they don't want him to be the acting county manager
anymore, he has the assurance that he returns to the job previously
approved by the board as assist -- as assistant county manager.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's fine, and I -- I
certainly think we owe Mr. McNees that security, if -- if nothing
else, and -- and -- so he's comfortable and knows regardless of the
outcome in the next couple of months that at the very least, he's
where he's at.
On the pay issue, I guess I agree that there's an
increase in -- certainly an increase in responsibility as acting
county manager. The -- The level of the increase, though, from your
suggestion just concerns me a little bit, and -- and part of the
reason is I know -- Mr. McNees shared with me the other day upon his
departure Mr. Dotrill allocated about a 10 percent increase in
Mr. McNees's salary, so he's had a -- one big jump there which brings
you to -- you told me the other day, but I can't remember. MR. MCNEES: 78,000 and change.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And -- and so he's up seven
or 8,000 from where he was a few weeks ago, and -- and while we may
need to increase that, I -- I don't know if ninety-five was just an
arbitrary starting point but I guess I want to have some discussion
on. When that --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Maybe that's an appropriate
number, maybe it's not, but I thought it was worth discussing.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The -- And as I handed out to you,
Mr. Dotrill left the position at $119,556. What message I wanted to
send is that Mr. McNees moving into that interim position is more than
just fulfilling his responsibilities as an assistant county manager.
I think it is a significant step in responsibility because there's not
someone coming back from vacation in two weeks to -- to -- to take
back the job -- or four weeks, for that -- that matter. This may
continue until -- We're looking at getting recommendations in late
March, and then if a selection is made by the board as early as April,
it may be May or June before someone takes the position, and I felt
with that type of longevity, more than a 10 percent adjustment in the
assistant county manager pay was -- was necessary. Pay people to do a
good job, and pay them what they're worth and I -- although -- You
know, I looked at the experience that Mr. Dotrill had at different --
different times, and the $95,000 is roughly equivalent to what he made
between the years 1991 and 1992, and I guess it was just a gut feel
that was an appropriate amount. I have no specific justification one
way or the other for it. We're still going to save some money, but I
thought it was an appropriate amount for the time frame that Mr.
McNees is being asked to act in that capacity.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Your suggestion is that it
would be for the time frame that he's in that capacity but that's not
his permanent salary or --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: It is not. And, in fact, this is not
something that's in the contract, but this would, in my opinion, take
the place of the 10 percent bump that occurred, and -- and the base
salary that Mr. McNees was at would be the salary he goes back to,
plus any cost-of-living adjustments and so forth that occurred dur --
in -- during the interim during the budget process. I don't see any
reason to go back to that 10 percent overage amount because that was
done for this purpose by -- by Mr. Dotrill, is my understanding.
MR. HCNEES: What -- The way the contract reads is I
would go back to the salary that I'm at today --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. That includes --
MR. HCNEES: -- if y'all wanted --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- the 10 percent bump.
MR. HCNEES: -- to check that. Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. I -- I do have a little
problem with that in that -- because that bump, I think, was done by
Mr. Dotrill because that was all that was within his capacity for you
assuming the position.
MR. HCNEES: And I'll be perfectly frank why. In fact,
that was my suggestion it be written that way, so that the assistant
county manager would be paid at least as much as any of the division
administrators. That was -- if -- If y'all don't think that's
appropriate, then I'll be happy to accept however you want to write
it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Since I -- you know,
Mr. Dotrill is not here to ask why the 10 percent bump occurred, I'd
have to agree, the assistant county manager ought to be paid at least
what a division administrator is paid.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Yeah.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: I hope so.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I'm going to make a motion that
we approve the contract as it's currently written and fill in the
blank $95,000. That would -- That would allow the assistant county
administrator to have the increase, and I think that's appropriate.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Could you tell me once again what
your present salary is -- I mean, today? COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Here it is.
MR. HCNEES: Today it's 78,000. Prior to the 10
percent, I was at seventy-one three, I believe. COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Is there any further
discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, the contract is
approved.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Big party at Hike's house
this weekend.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: I thought more in terms of a loan.
Item #10C
PRESENTATION OF EPTAB'S REPORT TO THE BCC ON "INVASIVE EXOTIC PLANTS IN
COLLIER COUNTY" - REPORT ACCEPTED; DIRECT STAFF TO EXPLORE ITEMS 1, 2,
3, 4C, 9, 3F AND 4B AND REPORT BACK
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Item 10(C), presentation of EEPTA
(phonetic) -- EPTAB, excuse me -- EPTAB's report to the BCC on
invasive exotic plants in Collier County. I --
MR. CAUTERO: Mr. Chairman -- I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yes, Mr. Cautero.
MR. CAUTERO: Vince Cautero for the record. The report
in front of you is a culmination of several months of work of your
Environmental Policy Technical Advisory Board. Mr. Cornell is the
chairman of that body, and he is here to present the report, and we're
here to answer any questions you may have.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Cautero, was the preparation of
this report something EPTAB took upon themselves, or was it board
direction that created the --
MR. CAUTERO: My understanding is that it is a project
that EPTAB took upon themselves.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Cornell, can I ask you how long your presentation is
planned for?
MR. CORNELL: It lasts approximately seven minutes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Oh, well, geez. Don't let me get in
the way of efficiency. Please proceed.
MR. CORNELL: Good morning, Commissioners. I am Brad
Cornell and chair of the Environmental Policy Technical Advisory
Board, affectionately known as EPTAB. EPTAB has recently completed an
investigation of invasive exotic plants in Collier County. This work
was done on behalf of the Board of County Commissioners pursuant to
EPTAB's advisory role described both in its enabling ordinance and in
the Growth Management Plan conservation and coastal management
element. The report was written by Chuck Ray, Nancy Payton, and
myself, with research assistance from Kimberly Polen and many other
county staff persons.
The scope of our work included the following: A
literature review, expert staff and outside consultation, review of
county exotics regulations, EPTAB and staff inspections of private PUD
projects, EPTAB and staff inspections of public county projects, and
finally the report and its recommendations.
I want to state right now that the recent emphasis given
by the local media to Collier County being out of exotics-removal
compliance on its own properties is not a complete representation of
this report. The county's non-compliance is important but not the
main point. However, it is a good -- it is good evidence of the need
to greatly improve local awareness of the hazards exotic -- exotics
pose for all of our citizens and thus encourage eradication.
Certainly there are many issues facing our county which
demand attention from landfills to urban sprawl; however, EPTAB
considers controlling invasive exotic plants absolutely worthy of our
most sincere efforts. These biological invaders threaten the health,
safety, and economic welfare of all our citizens in addition to
rapidly degrading every one of our wonderfully unique natural areas.
Among the worst offenders are melaleuca, Brazilian pepper, Australian
pine, and earleaf acacia. And for your benefit I have actually
clipped a few examples of these, and I'm going to -- COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Great.
MR. CORNELL: -- pass those around for you to see.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Glad they're in bags. I don't
want those peppers.
MR. CORNELL: Yeah. Please don't touch them. And the
pepper bag is sealed.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: That one I know.
MR. CORNELL: Helaleuca trees are torches just waiting
to be lit, and they surround many homes, especially in the rural and
estates areas. Their leaves contain high quantities of extremely
volatile oil which burns very hot. Profuse year-round flower
production is a constant health hazard to those afflicted with
allergies and asthma.
I have friends in the northern estates whose house is
surrounded by dense stands of melaleuca on neighbors' undeveloped
lots. Their three children suffer allergies, and the fire hazard is
especially great in dry winters like this one. Unfortunately there is
no relief now available to them through the county.
Brazilian pepper is an extremely aggressive colonizer of
urban and disturbed rural areas. It produces severe skin rashes in
many people like poison ivy to which it is related. Like melaleuca,
it forms dense monocultures where little else grows, thus ruining the
biological diversity of all natural habitats it invades. This
directly impacts nature-based tourism in Collier County, including
hunting, fishing, bird watching, wildlife viewing, and general
sightseeing, not to mention just aesthetics.
All exotics have a very negative impact on the real
estate industry here and especially victimizes property buyers and
sellers from other areas who don't know to be wary of exotics-infested
lots or what these exotics look like.
Other real estate victims include homeowners'
associations who are not adequately informed by the developer or the
county of exotics-free maintenance requirements which are actually in
perpetuity.
In recognition of the above threats to the well-being of
Collier County citizens and the wonderful natural setting in which we
all take pride and live, I ask that you review the information
provided in the exotics report and direct staff to begin
implementation of the recommendations.
As you will notice, Appendix E in the back of the report
groups the specific recommendations according to relative anticipated
budget impacts. EPTAB strongly advises immediate adoption and
implementation of all nine of those initiatives and policies which
have little or no budget impact.
In addition, we offer our own general prioritization of
the report recommendations as follows: First, all exotics education
initiatives as seen in Recommendation No. 4. Second, improve exotics
regulations where necessary as in Recommendation 6 and 9. Third,
improve enforce -- enforcement and compliance incentives, especially
implementing a homeowner's exotics assistance program and stressing
flexibility. Fourth, coordinate and cooperate with other public and
private entities working on exotics in South Florida, including Exotic
Pest Plant Council of Florida; the cooperative extension agent, Bob
Peterson; and the South Florida Water Management District, not to
mention a whole host of other private and public groups. Fifth,
pursue outside and alternative funding, resource sharing, and
volunteer utilization. Volunteers would be particularly effective as
educational resources and code enforcement assistants as now occurs in
other areas of code enforcement. And, sixth, support research efforts
on eradication, especially lobbying the federal government for a
biological control quarantine facility in South Florida and for
dedicated funding of the United States Department of Agriculture
research station that is now operating in Australia.
EPTAB has made in total 25 specific recommendations
whose implementation would initiate a very sincere and we believe
ultimately successful effort to control significant health, safety,
economic and environmental threats invasive exotic plants have brought
to Collier County. I thank you very much for the opportunity to
present this report, and I would welcome any questions.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Constantine.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I have questions on some of
the specific recommendations. Just a comment first on three, engage
more personnel, both staff and volunteers, to allow for code
enforcement monitoring. I suspect exotics is not the only area where
Linda would like a few extra people, and I -- I think we may address
that from budget season because I know they're shorthanded on a number
of things, but I'm not prepared to make the recommendation on this
area only now because I think we'll probably look at staffing up a
little at the budget time but -- MR. CORNELL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I am for the exotics
educational brochure. I understand putting the information down in
print, but to whom, and how do you see that being distributed?
MR. CORNELL: It would be available in all public places
like libraries. It would be sort of managed in the same way that
waste management and the solid waste department promote recycling and
those sorts of efforts. It's a real problem for people who don't know
what these things look like, and here they are required by county
ordinances to -- to clear them and keep them off of their properties.
That's a real problem. So you need brochures that have line drawings
or photographs. And, as a matter of fact, Ken Langland with IFAS and
in coordination with the Exotic Pest Plant Council is working on an
identification booklet which could be used in the preparation by
county staff of a -- of a county brochure that would be economical and
easily mailed and put in holders.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The 4(E), exotics control
hotline, what do you envision there?
MR. CORNELL: Well, people -- Let's say somebody wants
to do some remodeling or somebody is thinking about buying a -- a -- a
particular piece of property somewhere and they suspect or want to
know about exotics or how to get rid of them or what's required.
There's not really a good centralized place to -- to -- to get that
information quickly and -- and readily. That would be one way to
provide that information with just one phone call that's specifically
earmarked for exotics information.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I guess my thought there is a
dedicated line might be cost-prohibitive, but perhaps if someone
either in code enforcement or on Horseshoe Drive who has better
knowledge of this than others, if we did something like a brochure, we
may feature who that person is or at least have a contact as opposed
to a dedicated line.
MR. CORNELL: Or have not a dedicated line but a --
if -- if there was a way to advertise it by name as an exotics
information hotline even if it wasn't dedicated. In the phone book, I
know sometimes that's a problem because you have to have a specific --
a specific line to get an entry in the phone book but something like
that.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The -- Item 6(E) I -- I'm not
prepared to do yet. We go through this in our Land Development Code
hearings, and usually we'll pick and choose, and the majority of the
items that come to us do indeed become prohibited, but I'm not
prepared, I guess, yet to give direction on this. I -- I think we
need to make that part of our Land Development Code.
MR. CORNELL: Sure. If -- if I may -- If I may add
here, it would be good if the county and the city were -- were the
same in terms of their prohibitive species, and right now there are
some discrepancies; most notably, I think carrotwood.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Well, county and city
relations are so good right now that we want to make sure we take
advantage of that, try to get them on board.
MR. CORNELL: The other reason to look at -- at adding
species is to acknowledge the -- the source of the problem which is
plants that were initially used for landscaping purposes and -- and
other, quote, "good intentions," that escaped, and these plants that
are on this EPPC list have already been demonstrated to have escaped
and caused problems.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And I just want to be
careful, and -- and we went through this at our last LDC go-round, but
some of those nurseries may have inventories on -- and their different
economic impacts, and so that's why I'm more comfortable doing that in
a full-blown public hearing rather than just adopting here, but I -- I
do think we should investigate it.
Specific exotic ordinance, rather than simply having it
appear in our Land Development Code, I'm not sure I understand the
logic.
MR. CORNELL: Well, they're -- they -- the -- one of
the -- the major ways to deal with exotics that is not in the Land
Development Code that -- there are two -- two main mechanisms that the
county now has for dealing with exotics. One is in the development
process -- process itself where construction is taking place, and
that's reg -- regulated through the Land Development Code. After
construction has already been finished and the project has been
accepted, certificates of occupancies have been issued, there needs to
be follow-up, and code enforcement has the -- the job of making sure
properties remain exotics-free. And this is, of course, the
responsibility of homeowners' associations as well as private
individuals, and that falls under the litter, weed, and exotics
ordinance as far as the authoriz -- authorization and authority to do
that sort of enforcement. The litter, weed, and exotics ordinance is
in flux right know. It's sort of in draft form for a revised version.
It's an awkward document because it's not just addressing exotics.
There are a number of issues that could perhaps more easily be
addressed in a specific exotic ordinance, although certainly it's
considerable to just amend the exotics, weed -- litter, weed, and
exotics ordinance.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And then finally the last
item, if you'd give me a little bit of detail what you're thinking
here, re-establishment of the former native plant community.
MR. CORNELL: Well, that has to do a lot with what is
the ability to monitor and follow up and make sure that the -- the
site does not get reinfested, and especially it's important in areas
that would be, say, you know, a heavily used public park where
aesthetics is an issue, and you want to -- to regain a natural
vegetative look and function. And if you just clear the lot and just
leave it bare, it may not fulfill all the desires of the public or the
county.
This certainly is the -- Host of the time you don't do
anything. You just hope that the natural vegetation reseeds itself,
but as experience proves what comes back first usually is exotics, and
you have to really follow up on that.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: A number of these
recommendations, I think, are very good, and we should give some
direction on them. A couple that I have concern with from a cost
factor, and one is adding 30 more plants to the exotic list, and I
think we should go through the full public hearing. And my main
objection or concern there is not so much --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The carrotwood.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- is the carrotwood but not
so much the development community as is the single-family home
builder. Some -- Someone buys a lot and wants to build their own
home. Is there an additional burden? And the same with Item 10, cost
factor both in public parks and those things, ultimately that's the
taxpayer that foots the bill, and what's the economic impact there.
And, again, that single-family homeowner who's trying to build their
first home or their dream home, we already have six thousand-something
in impact fees and other steps along the way. It's easy to spend
$10,000 before you even build your -- your first -- before you lay --
lay your foundation.
So I want to be very careful before we add more to that
because I think we continue to put that single-family home out of
reach of a lot of people when we add. So those two areas I'm a little
wary of, but particularly coordination and research assistance and --
and improvement of the follow-up, and I think that may just come in
the form of adding some people which may be part of the budget process
but in code enforcement. The two items I mentioned we can explore in
the budget are more personnel and 4(B), doing some sort of brochure.
I think informing the public is half the battle, and -- and those two
I'd be willing to look at during the budget process.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Hac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: I -- I appreciate the report
and -- and appreciate your going to the trouble to bring it to us
and -- and would commend to EPTAB that this is exactly what we would
ask you to continue to do. It's exactly what -- the function that I
see for EPTAB, and I appreciate that, and there has been always this
question of, you know, what exactly do you do. This is exactly what I
would hope EPTAB would continue to do.
And along those lines, another thing I would ask EPTAB
to do in conjunction with this is -- I'm -- I'm trying to discern
should I presume that this exotics removal is EPTAB's highest priority
budget-wise or -- or should I -- should I ask you -- What I would like
to ask you to do is to ask EPTAB to review the environmental budget
for the county and -- and make recommendations to us. Give us your
advice on how you would prioritize and -- and what you think would be
an appropriate budget and -- and how you would prioritize, more
importantly, the spending of the limited dollars that we do have
available because I would love to say, "Let's implement all of this,"
and I would certainly like to see us get on par with the City of
Naples who has, like, Exotic Removal Day and some of those kinds of
promotions, but I would seek your advice in reviewing the budget for
prioritizing the dollars that we have available.
MR. CORNELL: Okay. If I may -- Thank you for that
input. If I may point out, a number of the recommendations in here do
not necessarily apply to the natural resources department which is the
department which we're most closely involved with when it goes -- kind
of cuts across the board, and apparently this is the reasoning for the
change in the budget or in the agenda item. But, you know, real
property, code enforcement, and other department -- other divisions in
the county would also be involved with some of these recommendations,
but certainly it would be within our scope to look at the budget
especially with the natural resources and --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I would appreciate it.
MR. CORNELL: -- and those issues. So I thank you for
that.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Those constraints are where the main
problem lies, Mr. Cornell. It -- It's not that -- although there are
a -- a few items in here I specifically take issue with, the majority
of them are solid recommendations. The question is one of priorities.
When we look at -- at setting a tax rate, is the removal of exotics a
financial priority over something we would have to remove in order to
make that an option, and that's where the decision -- the rubber meets
the road, so to speak. It's -- it's -- I -- I say every year hundreds
of good ideas will go unfunded. MR. CORNELL: Sure.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So what I'm particularly interested
and I appreciate you doing is breaking out those that don't really
require funding, that can be done immediately that are procedural
implementations that will improve the process. Beyond that I think we
have to start looking at weighting, what value do we place on it in
the budget process, and -- and I think the time for that discussion is
coming in the next few months.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yes, Commissioner Berry.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: I have a question. If we're -- If
we were to implement this recommendation in Collier County, what about
neighboring counties? Because knowing full well, as you drive down
1-75 and you hit the Lee County line and -- and you look on both sides
of that roadway, you've got a ton of melaleuca. Let's assume that we
take -- make the effort to go ahead and -- and remove melaleuca. I
mean, aren't we just, you know, chasing our tail continually, trying
to get rid of this because of the proximity un -- unless we can get
them to go along, you know, and do the same thing? What --
MR. CORNELL: Well, as -- this is -- This is the heart
of the recommendation to coordinate our efforts with all the other
entities that are working on this, including Dade County and the
eastern part of Collier County and Lee County. There are -- are
county, state, and federal agencies as well as private organizations
that are devoting a considerable amount of effort to just this, to
making sure that it gets addressed on all fronts. And the problem is
so big. There's, I think, about 500,000 acres of melaleuca in
Florida, and it spreads at a rate of about 50 acres a day. So it's a
huge problem that cannot be just accomplished by Collier County alone.
I would say that the thrust of this rec -- this report and our
recommendations are geared towards what the county can do as a --
as -- in our part of the -- of the strategy.
And Lee County is working on the problem from their
perspective, as is DEP with the water management district, and the
federal government through the national parks and other -- other
agencies. So it's -- it's got to be a coordinated effort or you're
right; we're wasting our time.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: Right. Well, I -- and I'm not
disagreeing with what -- Don't misunderstand what I'm saying here. I
just see this as such an enormous problem. Unless everybody gets on
the same train here, that -- that we've got a problem.
Also many times people coming before us or -- will
receive letters that -- particularly for new developments that are
coming in, and they're removing the exotics, and then we have
residents who are complaining that suddenly their wonderful natural
buffer has been taken away and that we have ruined their value on
their property and -- and certain things like that. What do you see
as a responsibility in this area? I mean, what -- how would you deal
with this?
MR. CORNELL: Well, the -- the first responsibility is
for education. People have to understand what the risks and hazards
of these species of plants are. A good example would be Sugden Park.
There's some real exotics problems down there. People want the
buffers, but you have to get rid of them. So I would say that the
answer in that case, which goes back to Commissioner Constantine's
point about -- that -- that would be where you might want to replant
something -- something native that would be very thick and -- and
provide the same function. You know, it depends on what your
resources are and where you want to put your priorities in terms of
planting and mitigating some of the complaints that might stem from
that, you know, the loss of vegetative material. But I think that
you -- if people understand the problems with, for instance, melaleuca
and losing a melaleuca monoculture forest next to their -- their house
is actually a good thing, not a bad thing.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: I -- I think melaleuca -- I
don't -- I haven't found too many people that would probably disagree
with the --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The Australian pines.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: -- removal, Australian pine and
even Brazilian pepper because that -- that forms a pretty dense buffer
in many cases, and -- and so people are quite concerned when
development comes in -- I have a little experience with this --
when -- when these things are removed and suddenly you've exposed
their property which before they thought they were very much isolated,
and how much can -- can government go in and -- and provide the
replacement I -- I think is a real problem. And, frankly, they don't
care that it's an exotic. It provided a buffer. And so I -- I -- I
really see this as a -- as a monumental problem and certainly a
problem when we talk about budgeting. And -- and I'm not disagreeing
with you, but I just -- I -- I just really want -- there -- there's --
there's two sides to this story, and I don't have the answer because I
agree that it ought to go, but I don't know to what extent that
government can come in and replace this.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: If I may, in -- in -- in the interest
of time -- I know we have some speakers on this item that are
registered. If I ask you if there's a response to Commissioner
Berry's request, please provide that, and then I'd like to go to the
public speakers so we can -- can begin moving on the item.
MR. CORNELL: Sure. And my only response was that the
other -- the other thing we have to keep in mind is that the exotics
don't stay contained on that person's -- you know, in that person's
buffer area.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: I understand.
MR. CORNELL: The birds distribute the seeds, and it
becomes a problem for all the neighbors, and all the neighbors don't
have an interest necessarily in -- in having those -- those species
growing on their lots too. So it is a difficult problem, but it needs
to be addressed.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Cornell.
MR. CORNELL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. McNees, would you call the
speakers, please.
MR. MCNEES: Yes. Your first speaker would be Nancy
Payton followed by Ty Agoston.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And how many speakers do we have
total?
MR. MCNEES: You have five.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. I'm going to ask you in the
interest of time to please not be redundant. If you are a member of
one group or another to support it, please -- please state that. Good
morning, Miss Payton.
MS. PAYTON: Very brief. Nancy Payton, a former member
of EPTAB and also one of the three EPTAB members that was involved in
development of this report. I also am employed by the Florida
Wildlife Federation, and we would like to offer our help in any way to
address some of the problems, questions that have been raised today,
development of a brochure. I also think a development of a slide show
would be very beneficial with photographs and -- and slides that
iljustrate because oftentimes a brochure is very good, but color and
fairly large is -- is even better. And we'd be very happy to work
with the county, and they're not-for-profits that have the same
interest in developing a slide show that we all can promote to our
various constituencies.
I also think that we can inform homeowners and new
homeowners of the benefits of not having exotics on their property.
And the issue of the buffer, I agree with you,
Commissioner Berry, that, yes, we are going to remove exotics and
hopefully revegetate, but how do we do that, and can we do that? And
I think that's where we all have to sit down together and try our best
to come up with a solution that addresses everybody's concerns but
moves us towards, I think, the goal that we're all looking forward to.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Miss Payton.
MR. MCNEES: Ty Agoston followed by Gil Erlichman.
MR. AGOSTON: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My
name is Ty Agoston. I live in Golden Gate Estates, and I'm speaking
for myself. I often question the -- the motivation of the speakers on
various advisory boards who happen to be promoting an issue that they
actually belong to in the day-to-day business. Let me just make an
assurance here that I am not in the environmental business. I'm
retired, and I'm an amateur gardener. I spend two, three hours a day
just to keep my joints moving.
What really bothers me about this issue is -- I'm an
expert at marketing, and I recognize one when I see it. We are
dealing here with the presentation that focuses on melaleuca, and
that's the big focus, and we all know that it's definitely a detriment
to the environment. What I take an issue with is that while the focus
is melaleuca, I've got to tell you there is an asparagus fern on this
list that I happened to be nursing along for a while. There are a
carrotwood here that I have three of, and I haven't been able to get
them going. I also have a number of Ficus trees that they freeze
every time there is a hard freeze in the estates. So I have a
problem, not to mention the fact I have a lessening of respect for any
law that we enact here and the ones that I'm convinced of that are
wrong, and I mean these particular instances I definitely don't want
anyone to come onto my property and tell me to remove them while I
have $20 pots sitting under them.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Ty, if you can't get exotics to grow,
maybe that's why you're an amateur gardener.
MR. AGOSTON: Well, that's -- that's -- that's well
possible. But, you know, I would love to see people speaking here to
expose their financial motivation. You know, are we -- are we having
a whole row of people here making presentations to you who are
essentially making money either perpetuating their contract with you
or to their companies or what have you? And the number of issues I
have seen on landfill -- I have seen it on a number of issues that the
very people who are the participating companies are making the
promotions for you. I mean, I don't think they should be selling
themselves at taxpayers' expense. Thank you. That's it.
MR. HCNEES: Mr. Erlichman followed by Judy Leinweber.
MR. ERLICHHAN: Good morning. Gil Erlichman, East
Naples and taxpayer and registered voter in Collier County. I'm
speaking for myself. I would like to put my 2 cents in here on -- on
this so -- on this melaleuca issue. I -- I'm a frequent driver on
1-75 up and down, going North and then coming South between here and
Fort Myers, and the most disgusting-looking trees that I see on both
sides of the road which -- whichever direction I'm going are these
melaleuca trees, and I'm speaking from a personal standpoint so far as
the trees themselves when they -- when they are continually blooming.
I think they bloom four or five times a year. I'm not a
horticulturist. I know -- I know nothing about plants, but all I know
is that I am bothered to the extent that I can't even sleep at night
sometimes with my postnasal drip and everything else that's caused by
the -- my allerg -- my allergenic reaction to the pollen from these
melaleuca trees.
Anyhow, I would like to see the county clean up its act
first. I mean, if you're going to pass an ordinance to have people
that own -- owning property get rid -- getting rid of these Brazilian
peppers and melaleucas and Australian pines, I think that the county
should do -- could clean up the trees that are growing on county
property before they even enforce any kind of a law on private
property, and I'm talking about the melaleuca trees. I would like to
see every one of those darn things cut down and -- and burnt.
I learned since I've been down here that the melaleuca
trees were brought specifically down into the Everglades to dry up the
Everglades. Well, that was about 40 years ago. Now, we have to
restore the Everglades. Meanwhile we're -- we're -- we're stuck in
saddle with these trees that are -- that are only pests and cause
actually damage because they -- what I learned, that they have oily
leaves and they -- and the peeling bark on their trunks can become
ignited, and that's why we get these frequent fires in the Everglades
and also in the areas around 1-75. So I would like the county to do
something to get rid of these melaleuca trees. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I would like to thank Gil for a rare
environmental viewpoint.
MR. MCNEES: Miss Leinweber, and your last speaker is
Jim Krakowski.
HS. LEINWEBER: I am Judy Leinweber, and we specialize
in interior foliage plants at Bay West. I've been involved in
horticulture for 31 years, and I am a member of the FNGA. First of
all, I think we need to identify exotic foliage plants. That is any
foliage plant that is not native to Florida. There is a list out
already. It's in the book called "The Identification of the
Wetlands." And when we get agencies like the South Florida Water
Management that's involved in this and state agencies, the bottom line
is xeriscaping. They don't want any foliage plants in the State of
Florida except for native plants. I am against the melaleucas and
Brazilian peppers. I think Commissioner Berry hit the nail on the
head, and Ty Agoston did a very good job, but we really need to worry
about the plant cops knocking on our doors and telling us which plants
we can grow and can't grow. Before we address the exotics, we need to
take care of the worst of the worst first; that is, the melaleucas,
Brazilian peppers, whatever, but don't extend a list until we've got
the money and manpower and resources to take care of it. In Collier
County we only have one plant cop that addresses this problem. That's
only one person on the payroll. What's going to be involved in this
is going to be tremendous. Do we want to get sucked into this? I
think we need to, you know, really look at it. Who's behind it?
Who's profiting behind it? The first two people on the list that were
speakers are profiting on this.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Let -- Let's be fair though. I
mean, you just stated you're in the business, so you have --
HS. LEINWEBER: I'm only -- I'm in interior, not
exterior.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Whatever comments are made here need
to be pertinent to the board action being requested today so -- MS. LEINWEBER: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- let's stay on that issue, if we
may.
MS. LEINWEBER: I realize this.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
MS. LEINWEBER: And if there is going to be a public
hearing on this, I wish a notice would be posted in a newspaper so all
aspects of agriculture can be involved in this, but please don't get
sucked into something the county can't handle because we're looking at
big bucks. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Hiss Leinweber. Was that
the last speaker?
MR. HCNEES: One more, Jim Krakowski.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: He's got a badge.
MR. KRAKOWSKI: Good morning, Mr. Chairman and County
Commissioners. For the record my name is Jim Krakowski. I represent
the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. I'm the refuge manager for
Florida Panther and 10,000 Islands National Wildlife Refuges, and I
just have a short comment in regards to this issue that I'll read.
Invasive exotic plants are a major threat to the natural
systems we have here in Southwest Florida. On February 12 I hosted an
invasive exotic plant workshop for state, federal, and non-government
land management agencies in Southwest Florida. Fourteen agencies
representing approximately one and a quarter million acres
participated in that workshop, and the 14 agencies also gave a
presentation or gave -- submitted a survey of what exotic plants they
had on their areas and what they are doing to control them. These
agencies reported 62 species of exo -- invasive exotic plants on their
lands. And I should add that those areas closest to urban areas had
more -- far more invasive species than those outside, which is
understandable.
All of these land managers are spending time and money
to control these species. We do not collect information on funds
expended, but I can assure you that hundreds of thousands of dollars
are being spent. These expenditures will only increase in future
years if there is not a coordinated effort to control invasive exotic
plants. I strongly urge the board to carefully consider EPTAB's
recommendations on addressing the invasive exotic plant problem,
especially those recommendations concerning the education of Collier
County residents on the significance of this issue and identification
of problem plants. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Krakowski.
Commissioner Constantine.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: First, I want to thank Brad
and the committee and echo Commissioner Mac'Kie's sentiments on this.
I -- I too think -- We've had the debate from time to time over the
last four years of what is EPTAB's role, and I appreciate the work
you've done here. I think this certainly is what we're looking for.
I want to go ahead and make a motion, and -- and I'd
like to suggest that we accept the report first and foremost, and give
staff direction to explore some of these, and among those are -- as we
look at the final list here: No. 1, coordination; No. 2, research
assistance; No. 3(E), which is improvement to follow-up on code
enforcement inspection, and I think some of that may come to us in the
budget process; 4(C), training sessions for nursery and landscape
businesses. Also obviously those people are dealing with this more
than anyone else and need to be very well informed. I'd like to see
us pursue No. 9, considering all the work that's been done and
continue to work on that and particularly 3(F) and 4(B), engage more
personnel and -- and the educational pieces I think we need to explore
during the budget process. So I'd like to see us do all of those
things in addition to accepting the report.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And that is in the form of a motion?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: It certainly was intended to
be.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: What do you mean "do all those
things"?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Give staff direction to
explore those and bring those back in some formal manner to us and --
and --
COMHISSIONER BERRY: Oh, ex -- okay. All right.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion on the floor. Is
there a second?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Question.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You -- You listed some specific
items. Does that mean that we would direct staff not to explore those
that you didn't list? For example, re-establishment of former native
plant communities, I think that one is particularly interesting,
and -- and I'd like to know from staff as a part of the budget process
how much would implementation of this entire plan cost. I'd like for
them to look at it and tell us what the costs are of all of these
goals. So my question on the motion is, in your enumeration of
certain of the -- of the options, did you intend for staff not to look
at any others?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I had selected the ones I
thought were probably the highest priorities for us and -- yeah. I
mean, the -- the example you gave, No. 10, re-establishment of former
native plant community, I just think it gets into
cost-prohibitiveness. It's one more thing for a homeowner to do.
It's one more thing for us to do in parks and rec. We have trouble
coming up with the dollars to do what we do right now, and -- and we
start adding more to that. And as I said before, my primary concern
is Joe and Sally Homebuilder trying to build their first home. It's
just one more thing that they have to pay for before they can actually
build the structure. And so that one in particular I -- I purposely
did not include. As we go into the budget season, if staff wants to
put price tags on other ones, I don't object to it, but I just picked
out the ones I saw that appeared to be obvious priorities for us.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Would -- Would you be willing
to -- to amend your motion to say that's -- those are the priorities
identified by the board but that we encourage staff to, you know, not
limit their recommendations to us?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Sure.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: What about the financial impact on
any of it?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I want '-
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's what I --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- all of it.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Yeah. When I say "ask staff
to explore," that's item number one as far as I'm concerned: What's
the economic impact, and what's the price tag on every item we talk
about.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'm -- I'm not going to support the
motion because I'm not interested in staff chasing their tail on
issues that I -- I have no intention of -- of funding. I have no
intention of making some of these items priorities when we're talking
about an economic development package and now in trying to find a way
to fund that this morning, and that is a stated priority of this
board.
In addition, maybe it's in the report, maybe I missed
it, but how many acres of exotics did we have when we decided they had
to be removed? How many acres do we have now? What is the propagation
rate? What is the removal rate? Are we making any headway? What
dollars are being spent to do it?
My point is, do we know how effective the existing
conditions are. And if we don't know how effective they are, what are
we doing adding to them?
COHHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Agreed, which is why I did
not include adding the 30 lists or adding No. 10 and -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I guess I --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I -- I'll restate my motion.
I'm going to go back closer to the original, although I -- what I
heard Commissioner Hac'Kie say is that you're not prohibiting them
from ever exploring others. I'm not suggesting they explore others,
but I don't want to put a prohibition on anything either.
But let me restate my motion as -- as originally
suggested, and that is, first and foremost, to accept the report;
second, give staff direction to explore Items 1, 2, 3(E), 4(C), 9; and
during the budget session, specifically bring back 3(F) and 4(B) for
us to look at in some detail. I'll leave it at that.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Is there a second on the
motion? I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I thought that's just exactly
what you asked for a moment ago.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No. I -- I'm -- I'm just looking
down. I needed more of a second to look at the ones that are left
out.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Mr. Chairman, I -- my concern is
that I think we've got a very broad area here that we're trying to --
to look at. To me, if -- if you want to address this, I think you
need to pick one or two particular plants here that you want to go
after and knowing full well -- you know, providing a brochure perhaps
with, you know, the -- the gamut of -- of different things may be one
thing, but I -- I think this is a -- a huge problem that we're trying
to tackle here. I know you have to start somewhere, but I -- I just
see this as such an enormous area, and not knowing the -- the funding
situation, I --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I --
COMMISSIONER BERRY: -- I have some concerns over that.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I agree, which is why I did
not include 6(E), which says add 30 more plants, because I think I
agree with Miss Leinweber: Let's get a handle on what's already --
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Right.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- existing before we start
adding to it. And what I'm suggesting, I think, is pretty much what
you're saying, and all I'm looking for is let's put a price tag and
clarify what do we mean by "coordination" and -- and what do we mean
by "improved follow-up," and I'm looking for a staff report back on
all that --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm ready to second the motion.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- and what's the price tag
on that. But I think I'm asking you exactly what you're saying.
Let's don't add something new.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Right.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let's clarify what we're
doing and -- and put a price tag on it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Well, I'm with you up till 9, 3(F),
and 4(B). I can tell you now, they can come back in the budget
process, but I'm not excited about them.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Now, which ones?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Nor am I, and that's all I'm
asking, is they come back during the budget process.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Mr. Chairman, which ones are you
talking about?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Just the -- the last three that --
that Commissioner Constantine was asking for more information on,
No. 9 and then Items 3(F) and 4(B). The first four, I think, are --
are prudent steps and I'm -- I see no reason to stand in the way of
those, and they have little or no budgetary impact. So --
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Right.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- I think it's a way of identifying
without dedicating funds at this point to a problem that we can't
really get our arms around so --
There's a motion and a second on the floor. Is there
further discussion on the motion?
Seeing none, I'll call the question.
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Aye.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Aye.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Aye.
Opposed?
COHMISSIONER BERRY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry in the opposition.
Motion carries 4-1.
I'd like to thank EPTAB for their work on this report,
and we'll obviously be seeing more of it in the future.
PUBLIC COHMENT - DOUG HCGILVRA RE RESOLUTION PASSED BY TAG IN SUPPORT
OF LAW ENFORCEMENT IMPACT FEES - DISCUSSED
We are on to Item -- or the last item of the morning
agenda, public comment on general topics. Mr. HcNees. MR. HCNEES: You have one, Doug HcGilvra.
MR. HCGILVRA: If you would pass those down, please.
Good morning, Commissioners. My name is Douglas
HcGilvra, and I live at North Naples. I'm a member of the Taxpayers'
Action Group, and I'm speaking today for the Taxpayers' Action Group.
Basically what we're passing out to you is probably already -- you
already have it anyway, but I'm going to pass it out again. I want to
read to you a resolution the Taxpayers' Action Group made just
recently.
The Taxpayers' Action Group of Collier County executive
committee after extensive discussion supports the following
resolution:
The Taxpayers' Action Group of Collier County has
resolved to support the establishment of a law enforcement impact fee
for Collier County to be applied without exception. Signed, Mary
Dunavan, Secretary.
Less than a minute. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: You're welcome anytime, Mr. HcGilvra.
Thank you, Doug.
Mr. HcNees, no further public speakers?
MR. HCNEES: No, sir.
Item #12B1
ORDINANCE 97-13, RE PETITION PUD-86-9(4), BRUCE J. SICILIANO, AICP, OF
AGNOLI, BARBER & BRUNDAGE, INC., REPRESENTING RONTO DEVELOPMENTS
NAPLES, INC., REQUESTING AN AMENDMENT TO THE HERITAGE GREENS PUD,
REDUCING THE SIDE SETBACK TO 5 FEET FOR ONE STORY GARAGES IN
CONJUNCTION WITH COACH HOMES FOR PROPERTY LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF
IHMOKALEE ROAD (C.R. 846), APPROXIMATELY ONE MILE WEST OF C.R. 951,
CONSISTING OF 251.46 ACRES - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Then we'll move on to the afternoon
portion of our agenda. Under advertised public hearings, Item
12(B)(1), Petition 86-9(4), Bruce Siciliano of Agnoli, Barber. This
is an amendment to Heritage Greens PUD for the purpose of reducing
side setbacks for a specific element of the PUD from 10 feet to 5
feet. Mr. Nine.
MR. NINO: Yes. Ren Nine for the record, planning
services. This petition would -- I understand we need to be sworn in.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. Madam Court Reporter --
Could I ask everyone who intends to testify on this item
to please stand and raise your right hand. "Testify" means speak in
any way, shape, or form.
(The speakers were sworn.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
Please proceed, Mr. Nine.
MR. NINO: This petition would have you amend the
development -- the table of development standards in the Heritage
Greens PUD to provide for reduced setback for -- for the garage
portion of any multi-family structure which is one story in height to
5 feet instead of 10 feet, creating a space of 10 feet between
building as opposed to 20 feet between buildings. No other change is
cent -- No other change is being requested to that PUD document;
however, consistent with our policy, one document is being repealed,
and another one is being adopted in its place.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Nine.
Commissioner Constantine.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: None of these structures have
been built or sold, so we're not surprising anyone?
MR. NINO: Correct. There is no development in this PUD
at the current time.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Do we have any speakers, Mr. McNees?
MR. MCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'll close the public hearing. Is
there a motion?
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'll move approval.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, motion carries
unanimously.
Item #12C1
STIPULATED SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF COHHUNITY
AFFAIRS AND COLLIER COUNTY FOR THE PURPOSE OF SETTLING DOAH CASE NO.
92-6350GH RE EXISING ROAD, WATER, SEWER, EHS, LIBRARY SYSTEM AND PARKS
AND RECREATIONAL FACILITIES IMPACT FEE ORDINANCES' CONSISTENCY WITH
CERTAIN POLICIES OF THE HOUSING ELEMENT OF THE GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN
WAS CHALLENGED - APPROVED
Item 12(C)(1), recommendation the BCC consider for
approval a stipulated settlement agreement between the Florida DCA and
Collier County. Good morning, Miss Student.
MS. STUDENT: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. For the
record, Marjerie Student, assistant county attorney. This is really
quite simple because we are just adding some definitions to the Growth
Management Plan and also our Land Development Code as it would relate
to the affordable housing bonus density ordinance. And quite some
time ago, as referenced in the executive summary, at the behest of
Florida Affordable Housing, Inc., the county was sued as to whether
certain of those impact fee ordinances were consistent with certain
policies of the housing element of the comprehensive plan, and they
have since fallen out of the case, but it was taken up with DCA, and
DCA took it up with the county, and over a period of years, the
settlement agreement is the culmination of negotiations with DCA, and
it's really quite simple. And Mr. Mihalic is here to address --
address any substantive questions you might have on the matter. Thank
you.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: All we're doing here is --
is -- I remember a couple years back we were concerned because the
numbers in Collier are skewed so that affordable housing was actually
middle-class housing. We said --
MR. MIHALIC: Exactly, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- we did our numbers a
little differently.
MR. MIHALIC: The comprehensive plan requires us to
assist families that have median incomes up to 61,000.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Name for the record, please.
MR. MIHALIC: I'm sorry. Greg Mihalic --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
MR. MIHALIC: -- director of housing and urban
improvement for the record.
Yes, the median income requires us to assist families
with median incomes of up to 120 percent of our median, which would be
a family of four of $61,500. This settlement will say that in Collier
County we will assist families of no higher than 80 percent of median
income or a family that makes approximately $40,000 for a family of
four.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Which still is roughly
equivalent to the dollar income in Lee County, for example.
MR. MIHALIC: Yes, it is. That's -- Well, it's
equivalent to about 100 percent of -- of the median income in Lee
County. They choose a higher assistance level -- COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Right.
MR. MIHALIC: -- for whatever reasons.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Are there questions for staff?
Seeing none, do we have speakers?
MR. MCNEES: You have no speakers.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'll close the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Motion to approve the item.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none -- Thank you, Mr. Mihalic
MR. MIHALIC: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- Miss Student.
More of your state and local tax dollars working
together for years.
Item #12C2
RESOLUTION 97-140 RE PETITION AV-96-034, GEORGE L. VARNADOE, AGENT FOR
OWNER, BARRON COLLIER PARTNERSHIP, REQUESTING VACATION OF THE PUBLIC
INTEREST IN A PORTION OF AN EIGHTY FOOT ROAD RIGHT-OF-WAY PLATTED AS
TRAIL BOULEVARD AS SHOWN ON THE PLAT OF PINE RIDGE SECOND EXTENSION -
ADOPTED AND STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT APPROVED
12(C)(2), Petition AV-96-034; George Varnadoe, agent for
Barton Collier Partnership. This is a plat vacation of Trail
Boulevard. Mr. Mullet, as you duck around the screen, good morning.
MR. HULLER: Good morning. For the record, Russ Mullet
of transportation services department. Item 12(C)(2) is a public
hearing to consider Petition AV-96-034 for the vacation of a portion
of the 80-foot right-of-way known as Trail Boulevard while reserving
the westerly 20 feet as a utility and drainage easement.
The site location is just south of the new Vanderbilt
Beach Road at U.S. 41 in the Pine Ridge area. The reason for the
vacation is the -- required to accommodate the Vanderbilt Beach Road
construction.
Letters of no objection have been received from all user
agencies. And the public benefit is a hundred four -- $100,476 worth
of property taken for VBR. A resolution was prepared and --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Mullet --
MR. HULLER: Yes?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- would you mind if I streamlined
this one?
MR. HULLER: No.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Basically they gave us a bunch of
land for VBR. They're asking to vacate a right-of-way that's
currently a northerly dead-end that goes nowhere and is probably only
used at this point, with the exception of access to a small shopping
area, for pedestrian and bicycle use? MR. HULLER: (Nodded head.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Do we have provisions to allow for
continued pedestrian and bicycle use in the area? MR. HULLER: Yes, sir.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Would you just explain to
me "with the exception of a small shopping center"?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Well, there's a -- there's the Naples
Cheesecake Company and Tin Cup Cafe and one more business there. This
does not affect their access. This is a vacation of nor -- a piece
north of that.
Okay. Is there anything the petitioner wishes to get on
the record on this matter?
MR. VARNADOE: I think -- For the record, George
Varnadoe representing the petitioner. I want to make sure that when
we do this there's also a stipulated judgment that you'll be approving
which relates to the condemnation. We ought to probably specifically
approve that along with the -- the resolution.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So there will be two motions. The
second would be -- and, Mr. Weigel, you'll walk us through that one.
That is, in essence, a necessary element of this decision?
MR. WEIGEL: It is. Yeah. It's part and parcel of this
item. First is the resolution to vacate, and the second is to approve
the stipulated final judgment.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. McNees, do we have speakers on
this?
MR. MCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'll close the public hearing. Is
there a motion on the first mo -- the first matter of vacation?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I'll make a motion that we approve
the vacation.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none -- Mr. Weigel, what's the
phrasing of the second motion to the --
MR. WEIGEL: The second motion would be the approval of
the attached stipulated final judgment. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
Is there a motion to that effect?
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: So moved.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion and a second. Any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, the item is approved.
Item #13A1
RESOLUTION 97-141 RE PETITION V-97-1, CRAIG WOODWARD OF WOODWARD, PIRES
AND LOHBARDO, P.A., REPRESENTING EVELYN BREWER AND VIVIAN WOLFE,
REQUESTING AN AFTER-THE-FACT VARIANCE OF 3.15 FEET FROM THE REQUIRED
FRONT YARD SETBACK OF 30 FEET TO 26.85 FEET FOR AN EXISTING SINGLE
FAMILY REISDENCE LOCATED AT 467 KENDALL DRIVE ON MARCO ISLAND - ADOPTED
Item 13(A), advertised public hearings, Petition V-97-1.
I believe we have to have the folks on this petition sworn in, Miss
Student?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman --
MS. STUDENT: Yes.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Why don't we do that first.
Then I'll --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. I would like to ask all
members of the public and petitioners and staff on V-97-1 to stand and
raise your -- stand and raise your right hand, please.
(The speakers were sworn.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, this looks like
a fairly no -- somewhat of a no-brainer. The house was built and CO'd
in 1980. Now 17 years later they realized in an effort to sell it
that they're off by a couple of feet, and so I don't know if
petitioner wants to talk us out of this, but it seems like it should
be fairly easy for us to approve.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I -- I agree. I'd be ready to
second the motion if the public hearing were closed.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Badamtchian, has Commissioner
Constantine in any way not synopsized this correctly?
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: No. He was absolutely correct.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you very much.
Do you want to talk us out of it, sir?
MR. WOODWARD: No. I'll rest on the council --
commissioners' astute observations. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
Do we have public speakers, Mr. HcNees?
MR. HCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'll close the public hearing.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Motion to approve the item.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, motion carries
unanimously.
Item #13A2
PETITION V-96-31, DANIEL TETLOW, JR., REQUESTING A 7.25 FOOT
DIMENSIONAL VARIANCE FROM THE SIDE YARD SETBACK REQUIREMENT OF 7.5 FEET
TO ALOW AN EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING UNIT TO REMAIN AT .25 FEET
FROM THE WESTERLY SIDE PROPERTY LINE IN AN RSF-4 ZONING DISTRICT FOR
PROPERTY LOCATED IN NAPLES MANOR SUBDIVISION - TABLED UNTIL THE NEXT
LDC CYCLE COMPLETED
Item No. 2, Petition V-96-31. Would all members here to
speak on that item please stand and raise your right hand. Madam
Court Reporter.
(The speakers were sworn.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
Good morning.
MS. HURRAY: Good morning. Susan Murray with current
planning. The property owner is requesting a 7.25-foot conventional
variance to the side-yard setback requirement of 7.5 feet in an RSF-4
zoning district, and this is to allow an existing single-family
structure to remain at .25 feet from the westerly side property line.
The structure was constructed in 1958 at 2.5 feet from
the side property line, and it's located on a legal nonconforming lot.
It contains approximately 1,200 square feet of living area. The
current property owners just wish to sell the property, and a variance
is necessary to obtain clear title.
Special conditions do exist in that the structure was
constructed in 1958 before the current 7.5-foot side setback
requirement. The applicant purchased the structure in 1987 as it is
presently constructed, and the fact that the existing structure does
not presently conform to current regulations does not result from
actions by the present property owner.
The structure has existed in its current location for
over 30 years with no known detrimental effects to the surrounding
neighborhood or public. However, since the .25-foot side setback
meets a very small percentage of the required 7.5-foot side-yard
requirement, it fails to meet the general intent and purpose of
side-yard requirements with regard to separation between structures.
Also it could be difficult to perform maintenance to the
westerly side of the structure without encroaching into the
neighboring property. And it also appears that the existing roof
struct -- roof overhang may encroach into the neighboring property to
the west.
For these reasons staff recommends the BZA approve the
requested variance with the following stipulations: And that is, the
existing structure may be altered within the scope of routine or
required maintenance, provided the alteration does not encroach upon
the .25-foot westerly side setback allowed by this variance approval
nor any other setback requirement at the time of alteration; however,
any enlargement of, or additions to, the structure shall be in
conformance with the required setbacks and any other requirements of
the LDC at the time of enlargement.
I did want to note that at the planning commission
meeting, staff recommended to the commission that they consider adding
the following stipulation to the resolution: And that would -- that
was, should the subject structure be destroyed, moved, or replaced as
defined in the land development regulations at the time, a structure
may only be reconstructed on the subject property in conformance with
the setback requirements and other applicable land use regulations at
the time of the replacement.
The county attorney's office has reviewed this proposal
and has indicated that since a variance is considered to run with the
land, their office could not support the above stipulation. And after
further consideration the planning commission reviewed this petition
on February 7, 1997, and by a vote of 8-0 recommended approval without
the aforementioned stipulation but with the others as indicated in the
PU -- copy of the resolution in your packets. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
Commissioner Constantine, did I note you had a question?
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No. I'm okay.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I have a problem with the -- This was
purchased in 1987. I'm sorry. Someone obtained title in 1987. I
have a problem with the stipulation that says "any additions." As far
as I'm concerned, if you -- you know, what we're, in essence, doing is
granting the left side of the house, and they can do anything else
with the rest of the property they want. We're granting a -- it being
3 inches from the property line in perpetuity, and they can basically
tear down the balance of the house, leave that wall standing, and
rebuild it maximizing the lot with a 3-inch setback on one side.
That's not acceptable to me. You know, when you purchase homes with
those kind of conditions, you purchase them as-is, and I have a real
problem with allowing that to continue in perpetuity. Commissioner Norris.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's -- You're getting to one of
the points that I've been concerned about for a long time.
Mr. Weigel, since the variance runs with the land, do we
have the ability -- is that in our Land Development Code, or is that
in Florida Statutes, or where does that principle come from, and do we
have the ability to modify that or to come up with something different
like perhaps a conditional variance?
MR. WEIGEL: You have several good questions there. I
think Margie will answer the preponderance of them. But we advise the
staff and the -- and the planning commission in regard to the status
of the law that exists, not only locally with our Land Development
Code, but what case law has indicated concerning variances running
with the land, and she'll expound upon that briefly.
Additionally, our review of this -- knowing that -- that
variances do run with the land, our advice to -- in the -- in the
staff review process is that until we make a change in our own
ordinance, we really technically can't do what is being attempted to
be done with the stipulation that's there. Not withstanding that some
may agree that it's good, some may say it's bad, but it's as
technicians -- legal technicians we don't have the mechanism in our
own local code right now to do that. Did I state that correctly?
MS. STUDENT: Yes. And I'll just elaborate very
briefly.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Name for the record.
MS. STUDENT: My name is Marjorie Student, assistant
county attorney for the record. The case law which is common law in
the State of Florida tells us that variances run with the land. The
policy, reason, and our opinion for that is because variances have
traditionally been applied in a situation where you have a hardship
because of the irregular shape of the land, and if that's not going to
change for any reason, it wouldn't make sense to have variances not
run with the land.
However, I believe that we could look at our amendment
to our land code where we have some different classes of variances, if
you would, and there are other jurisdictions which do that, and they
have criteria for the different classes because some of the things
we're called on to look at do not deal really with the land-related
hardship, and we can break it out in that way. And then this case
tells us that if we have a provision in our land code, a specific
provision that would permit that, we could limit those, and that would
be applicable to these other classes of variances. So I think that's
something we need to look at.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: That's a -- That's something I
would like to have our staff pursue in the next LDC cycle --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: You have two for that.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: -- come up with something like
that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Make it three.
MR. MULHERE: May I just add one piece of information?
And I think we can probably get some information in this upcoming
cycle related to -- to your request because we've got time to do that.
Not to be argumentative, but there is some language in
Section 2.7.5.7 under the variance procedures section of the code
entitled "Conditions and Safeguards," and I've talked with Margie
about it, and she does not feel that this necessarily provides
sufficient justification for the board to put a -- for example, a
limitation such as if the structure was -- was destroyed, that it
would be built to the -- the standards in effect at the time it was
destroyed, but I do want to read it because -- It says, In
recommending approval of any variance, the planning commission may
recommend appropriate conditions and safeguards in conformity with the
zoning code, including, but not limited to, reasonable time limits
within which the action for which the variances required shall --
shall be begun or completed or both. In violation of such conditions,
safeguards would be made a part of the terms under which the variances
granted shall be deemed a violation of this zoning code.
I would presume that -- of course, it talks about the
planning commission -- that that right extends to you as well as the
final decision-making body on -- on a variance, and -- and so I think
it's a question of interpretation from my perspective as to how far
conditions and safeguards may be.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And I'm not going to listen to you
two argue.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: They won't even take my legal
advice, Bob. I bet they won't take yours.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yeah. I'm not going to --
MR. MULHERE: Well, I got to practice attorney for a few
minutes anyway.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Appreciate that, and you'll be
getting a bill.
Mr. Weigel, my -- my question -- has been forgotten, so
never mind.
MR. WEIGEL: If your question is, if you go forward with
the staff recommendation, what happens or what may happen -- might
that be your question?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: No. Thank you. I -- I remember it.
Is there a way for this property owner to obtain title to this
property but just have to pay for an additional layer of insurance
in -- in obtaining it? I mean, I -- I -- when I -- when I bought my
house, there was an encroachment into a utility easement that had been
there since the home was built. Well, I paid an additional level of
insurance to obtain title to the home -- MR. WEIGEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- and just upped my annual -- my
annual amount, but I was still able to obtain title.
What we're hearing is that if we don't grant this
variance, this home can never be sold to anyone. I don't understand
that to be true from my personal experiences.
MR. WEIGEL: No. What I think -- We've run into this
problem with what happened to be original construction and -- and
location defects up in Pelican Bay and other places where -- in fact,
yes. It's a title glitch for the review of title, and frequently in
financing they say, "Oops, this is a problem. It's got to be taken
care of," and that's where the problem is. It, in essence, could
continue to exist for an indeterminate period of time with the current
ownership, but it's the -- usually in the financing end of things that
someone says, "Well, I think we've got a problem here." If it's not
totally copacetic, they won't provide the loan to the purchaser to
make the -- to make the purchase.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
MR. WEIGEL: And -- but there are other ways of relief,
as you mentioned, and that is concei -- conceivably to purchase
additional land or break out a segment -- it might require a
resubdivision, though, if we're talking about an area that's already
subdivided, a replat requirement so that instead of buying a whole lot
next door, if you're going to break out a little sliver and not run
into a problem with what's already built next door in its setbacks and
stuff like that. It could be problematical, but it could potentially
be done too as far as that goes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just -- I want to make clear what
I think is a short answer to this. You probably can't get a mortgage
on this house unless we approve the variance. So if the house can be
sold for cash -- but I bet there aren't a lot of those transactions in
Naples Manor, so this house can't be sold by a buyer who requires a
mortgage as long as this exists on the -- unless this variance is
approved.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Tells us something about the '87
purchase, doesn't it? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Are there any public speakers, Mr.
McNees?
MR. MCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'll close the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I know this is a very unfortunate
situation, but to grant this variance would be a disservice to the
adjoining property owner. Since the variance is going to run with the
land, that means that this -- this particular dwelling could be
removed and another one rebuilt within -- what did you say? -- 3
inches --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: 3 inches.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: -- of the property line? That's
just -- simply is not fair to the adjoining property owner. I -- I
think that we could perhaps maybe take some -- some different action
at a future date on this particular property if our staff is able to
come up with some mechanism for us to do so in the LDC, but for now
I'm going to make a motion to deny this variance. COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yes, Commissioner Hac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: If -- if this -- Mr. Weigel, if
this variance is denied, is there a time limitation on -- assuming
that we got a change in the LDC in this cycle, would this negative
vote prohibit the reapplication under the new -- new and improved
conditional variance that we're talking about?
MR. WEIGEL: I think there is a time limitation perhaps
through the procedure. You may just want to table this indefinitely.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's what I was hoping. My --
if we tabled this -- MR. WEIGEL: Or table it -- table it with a time certain
to --
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay.
MR. WEIGEL: -- come back, like six months or eight
months.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I'll amend my motion to one of
tabling this.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And -- and just specifically, that
tabling is until such time that we complete the current Land
Development Code amendment cycle and other relief may be available to
the property owner?
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Is there any discussion?
All those in favor signify -- I'm sorry. The second
amends?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The second amends.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: There wasn't a second so --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It was a second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: It is now.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And that is tabled. Thank you very
much.
Item #13A3
RESOLUTION 97-142 RE PETITION CU-96-25, AGNOLI, BARBER & BRUNDAGE,
INC., REPRESENTING COHMUNITY CONGREGATIONAL UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST,
REQUESTING CONDITIONAL USE "7" AND "11" OF THE "A" ZONING DISTRICT FOR
CHURCH EXPANSION AND ACCESSORY USES AND A CHILD CARE CENTER FOR
PROPERTY LOCATED AT 15300 TAMIAMI TRAIL NORTH - ADOPTED WITH
STIPULATIONS
On to No. 3, Conditional Use 96-25. Unless the board
has a concern, it's my intent to go through the remaining items
without a break, complete the -- complete the agenda and -- and
adjourn.
CU-96-25. Would all the members of staff, the public,
and otherwise stand and raise your right hand, please. Madam Court
Reporter.
(The speakers were sworn.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
COHHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Chairman, can I ask our
staff three quick questions on this? CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: You certainly can.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just yes or no on these.
This is a -- There is an existing church? MR. NINO: Yes.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And it's located on U.S. 417
MR. NINO: Correct.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Just up by the Lee County
line?
MR. NINO: Immediately south of Szabo Nursery.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And -- and there have been no
public objections to this -- MR. NINO: Other than --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- expansion?
MR. NINO: Other than the communication which I just
handed out to you in which they really don't object to it, but they
ask two additional stipulations be added to the resolution, and -- and
staff has reviewed this. We have no -- no difficulty with it. We
think they -- they should be added. The petitioner agrees to add them
to the stipulations.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: And the planning commission
approved?
MR. NINO: The planning commission did not have an
opportunity to review this inasmuch as it came to us after the
planning commission meeting.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: With the exception of those
plan --
MR. NINO: Yes.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- the -- those changes, the
planning commission approved unanimously? MR. NINO: Yes. Unanimously.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Can I get on the record, the
petitioner, do you agree to the items that Mr. Nino has -- has stated?
MR. FARRAR: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. And your name for the record?
MR. FARRAR: Brian Farrat for Agnoli, Barber & Brundage.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Are there further questions of
staff?
Mr. HcNees, do we have any speakers?
MR. HCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Close the public hearing.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Motion to approve --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Second.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: -- with the stipulations in this
addendum.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion and a second. Is
there any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none --
(Applause)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Your -- Your patience is appreciated.
Item #13A4
PETITION V-96-28, JOHN GRISSOM REPRESENTING LANDMARK COHMUNITIES, C/O
MIKE JEPPESEN REQUESTING A 1.94 FOOT DIMENSIONAL VARIANCE FROM THE REAR
YARD SETBACK REQUIREMENT OF FIVE FEET FOR AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IN A
PUD ZONING DISTRICT FOR PROPERTY LOCATED IN QUEEN'S PARK SUBDIVISION AT
LAGO VERDE, PHASE SEVEN, LOT 189 - TABLED UNTIL LDC AMENDMENTS ARE
COMPLETED. STAFF TO WORK WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ADVISORY COHMITTEE
RE SURVEYS
Next item, Petition Variance 96-28, John Grissom
representing Landmark Communities requesting a 1.94 dimensional
variance from a setback of 5 feet. Again, would all members -- all --
all individuals here to speak on this item please raise -- stand and
raise your right hand.
(The speakers were sworn.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
Good afternoon.
MS. HURRAY: Good afternoon. Susan Murray with current
planning. The applicant is requesting a 1.94-foot dimensional
variance from the required 5-foot rear-yard setback requirement to
allow an existing pool walkway and screen enclosure to remain at 3.06
feet from the rear property line.
The need for the variance resulted from a scaling error
of 6.94 feet by the applicant's pool contractor. At the time of
application for permit approval, the pool was shown lying 10 feet from
the rear property line. When the pool was --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'm sorry. When was that approval?
When was this done?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Just very recently.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: '96?
MS. HURRAY: Yes.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes, '96.
MS. HURRAY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So the pool company made a -- an
apparent mistake but submitted documentation showing the pool being 10
feet from the rear property?
MS. HURRAY: That's correct.
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Who was the surveyor? Do we
know?
MS. HURRAY: Let me check the --
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: In the erroneous survey.
MS. HURRAY: Well, let me explain a little bit further.
When the appli -- The pool contractor came in to apply for his pool
permit. He drew the pool in on a survey and showed the left rear
corner being 10 feet from the rear property line. So in the end when
they -- he went to get final approval, in reality the pool was
constructed 3.06 feet from the rear property line.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So he told us, "We're going to build
it 10 feet from the property line," and then failed to do so? MS. HURRAY: That's correct.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: For me the most telling thing
is the second paragraph under considerations and we're required -- if
we're going to grant something, to -- to -- there's a certain hurdle
which must be met, and -- and it says it's not due to special
conditions and circumstances peculiar to the land, structure, or
building, and there are no preexisting conditions. I guess we need
the petitioner to tell us otherwise if there is, because by law we
can't grant it unless there are.
MR. MCNEES: You do have a speaker registered.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Mr. Assaad, you also rose to
speak on this matter. Are you registered to speak also? MR. ASSAAD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Is the petitioner here? Are
you the petitioner, sir?
MR. GRISSOM: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Please come to the podium and
state your name for the record, please.
MR. GRISSOM: My name is John Grissom. I own Diamond
Pool Construction.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Grissom, did your company make a
mistake here?
MR. GRISSOM: I personally made the mistake. I -- When
I went in to do my permit application, I did not have a scale ruler
with me, and I had a copy of the faxed survey with me. I used a -- a
25-foot tape measure, and I just scratched the thing in on the survey,
and it was incorrect.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Grissom, quite frankly --
MR. GRISSOM: I -- I understand.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- we have been asking adjoining
property owners to eat these variances because of mistakes such as not
properly surveying the corner points of the work to be done. We had
in Naples Park the same situation. We had one situation where a
surveyor even went off the front property line and never checked it
off the rear. I don't recall granting that variance. And I'm just --
you know, I feel like granting this type of variance is accepting the
practice that you just outlined, and that's very, very difficult for
me to do individually.
MR. GRISSOM: I understand. I -- I can't -- There's
nothing I can say to justify the mistake, and to do so would be
ridiculous but --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And I'm not trying to grill you. I'm
just trying --
MR. GRISSOM: I know.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- to tell you --
MR. GRISSOM: I know.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- the position we're in.
MR. GRISSOM: I -- All I can say is that I've been doing
this for five years in Collier County. I've never made a mistake
before. I -- I went for the variance for my customer. I paid for
the -- and I -- I -- I'm just trying to serve my customer here.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I understand.
Commissioner Norris.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Let -- Let me ask a couple of
questions. What -- what is -- That's a lake drainage easement?
You're -- you're backing up --
MR. GRISSOM: Yes, sir. There's a --
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: -- to a lake?
MR. GRISSOM: -- 20-foot lake drainage easement beyond
the rear.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Okay. And what would you have to
do -- If the variance is -- is declined, what action would you have to
take to make this conform?
MR. GRISSOH: I'd have to cut the 1.94 square feet off
of the corner of the pool deck and angle the screen enclosure there,
which really doesn't -- it doesn't serve the neighbors either, I mean,
as far as -- what this -- it -- It doesn't help anybody if we have to
do that. It -- It takes away from my customer, but it doesn't help
the neighbors either because it doesn't affect the neighbors actually.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Because --
MR. GRISSOH: It's a radius line.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Because there's not a neighbor?
MR. GRISSOH: No. There are neighbors. There are
neighbors. It's on a cul-de-sac though and the -- the lots --
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: There's side neighbors, but
there's not a rear neighbor?
MR. GRISSOH: No, there is no rear neighbor. And if
they planted a bush in that corner, it would be the same effect.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Yeah. Okay.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Are there any further
questions for the petitioner?
Do we have registered speakers?
MR. HCNEES: Yes. One. Wafaa Assaad.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
MR. GRISSOH: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Wafaa, you can just hand those to
me. I'll hand them out. Thank you.
MR. ASSAAD: For the record I'm Wafaa Assaad, the
president of Landmark Communities. We are the owners and developers
of the land, and we contracted to build the house that has the
variance. After the house was permitted without the pool, it was
surveyed, and the survey meets all of the requirements, including all
of the setbacks. The owner of the house or the buyer of the house
wanted to build a house, so we contracted with this pool company to --
to get the permit and build the pool. When they went to get the
permit, they did not go for the actual engineering or mathematically
calculated. He used the scale offered use survey plan to measure the
setback and get the permit expeditiously. This is where the mistake
happened by the pool contractor. After the pool was built, the house
was sold. And to make the problem a little bit more clear in your
eyes, it's -- it's a cul-de-sac lot, and it's not like a block of land
even where a variance would be protruding into the back yard, would
take the elevation or the view from neighboring properties. It just
clip the corner of the pool to the extent of about 2 feet. That would
have been very simple to correct if you can look down the cage and
take that 2 feet out except that the pool sits about 2 feet away from
the cage. It doesn't have a very wide deck. So if you take that 2
feet out of the pool deck and push the cage back, you would have a
screen enclosure that sits right at the edge of the water line of the
pool in one corner where it prohibits access around the pool. None of
that is -- is intentional. It's a small mistake. I don't think it
helps the neighbors to -- to do any of that. It's definitely a
mistake. The cure is much worse than the problem. We thought if the
variance was granted we'd be very happy to landscape around that
corner of the pool and thus make it look like part of the landscaping
image of the community and not part of any protrusion into the back
yard.
If you go out physically to the site like I did, you
will find that this particular lot is at the tip of the cul-de-sac.
That protrusion doesn't take a lot of view from anybody else. And
given the lake back behind the house and the access easement and the
drainage easements and the water level in the lake, you don't feel
that the house or the cage is sitting too close to the lake. There is
plenty of room, grass, landscaping, and sodding behind.
So we're down on our knees. We're asking for mercy. We
made the mistake. I wish there was a penalty or a cure other than not
granting the variance because simply not granting the variance would
compound the problem and would not make it good for anyone, including
the neighbors or the community.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
Commissioner Norris.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Is the house -- you say it's been
sold. Is it currently occupied by the -- the owner?
MR. ASSAAD: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: It is.
MS. MURRAY: Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yes.
MS. MURRAY: If I may, just for your information, I
wanted to let you know I did receive letters in opposition, one from a
Mr. Rafael claiming to be a representative of the neighbors on either
side of the subject property.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Is he an attorney?
MS. MURRAY: No, sir. He is a home care company and
real estate broker.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
MS. MURRAY: And the second was from a Gary and Linda
Peretes, and they lived across the lake on Lot 95. Actually, kind of
the gist of both of these letters were that these folks wanted to
design a similar type of pool, and -- and it fell into the setback --
rear-yard setback requirements, so they were required to alter the
design of their pool to comply, and -- and they feel a -- a little bit
unfairness here because somebody made a mistake and they had to
comply.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. My question is -- is -- is
actually -- This may be more for Wayne or Bob. Gentlemen, if I could
have one of your -- one of your attention, please. How come we keep
coming back to issues regarding pool companies where there was no spot
survey required before the pool was constructed? I don't understand
why we require spot surveys on homes and commercial buildings yet a
tape measure seems to be acceptable for a pool.
MR. ARNOLD: Well, I think -- For the record, Wayne
Arnold, planning services director. In speaking, I guess, in this
instance for the building department, I would tell you that I don't
believe it's a requirement that you turn in a survey pre-building
permit issuance, that the spot survey is the guarantee that everything
is in compliance with the setback requirements in the code.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And the spot survey we requ -- we
received at the final construction of this pool is what indicated the
encroachment?
MR. ARNOLD: In this particular case it was. It's a
ten-day spot survey requirement, but it's also required prior to
getting your further inspections, but on a pool there really aren't
that many inspections so that it -- it -- it generally falls with the
final.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I just know before you pour the
foundation of a house it is almost -- I mean, it's an industry rule
that you get a survey company to set the corner points yet no one --
you know, we keep seeing this on pools. Apparently, you know, there's
so much competition out there, corners are being cut so much that
they're -- they're taking chances on where this pool ends up being
regard -- you know, in relation to the setback. That's bad business.
It's bad for the customer, it's bad for the industry, and it puts
these kind of lousy decisions in our lap, and I don't appreciate it
because we either have to unfairly penalize this homeowner because of
a stupid mistake, or we have to accept it on behalf of the people who
live in that community who don't want it. We're in a no-win situation
here.
MR. ASSAAD: I wish there was a cure where the pool
guy -- the gentleman who built the pool and even myself can pay a
penalty, can do something that -- that -- that make the system whole.
It's --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We've looked into that.
MR. ASSAAD: It's a mistake.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We can't do it. Okay.
MR. ASSAAD: But -- and -- and -- I mean, in all
fairness also, just maybe a consideration is it's a cul-de-sac lot.
There is a big lake behind it. The protrusion is not the entire
length of the screen enclosure. It's just the corner. If the cage
was built properly and we have planted a couple of trees --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let me -- let me ask you --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yeah. I'm -- I'm going to interrupt
you because we're -- we're --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Let me ask a very simple
question. Are there special conditions or circumstances peculiar to
the land, structure, or building, keeping in mind that economic
hardship does not qualify?
MR. ASSAAD: I -- I would have to say that the only cure
to the problem is to knock the cage back by the 1.95 feet would --
would put the cage right at the edge of the pool; so, therefore, if
you want it down, it would create a bigger -- a bigger impact on us.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: So -- so the answer to my --
MR. ASSAAD: The planning --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The answer to my question,
then, is no?
MR. ASSAAD: The answer to your question is no
because --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, I --
MR. ASSAAD: I mean --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I heard a -- a potential special
circumstance. I'm not sure which way --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's what I was looking
for.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm not sure which way I'm going
on this, but a circumstance might be that the decking on this pool is
unusually narrow; therefore, if you cut it off, there is no pool deck
at this corner. That seems to me to be, you know, potentially a
special circumstance that we might --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Boy, I don't know if that
fits land, structure, or building. I mean, that's -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, structure.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- part of the problem with
what they built.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The deck is the structure.
I'm -- and I'm not, again, taking a position yet.
MR. ASSAAD: Can I have --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm just --
MR. ASSAAD: I have --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Mr. Assaad, can you just --
Thank you.
The -- The structure is the one we're talking about
though, and that -- that deck and the pool is what's in question. I
think when we talk about structure, we're talking about setbacks on
existing structures, or maybe Mr. Weigel can help me there. But if I
build a home that encroaches on the setback, my home is then a
structure, but that doesn't count. It -- it's -- The idea when it
says "structure" is for preexisting conditions or something that is
out of the ordinary. I can't have created the problem. MR. WEIGEL: That is correct.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: A tenth of a foot is a mistake. This
isn't an oops in my opinion, and I -- I just -- again, I just
tremendously resent being put in this position and I am -- you know,
I'm -- I don't want to let a company off the hook by making this
decision and -- and I'm sorry. I know that sounds cruel, but I did it
in my own district. You know, this isn't something I haven't stood up
to in other areas of the county, including those that may affect me
individually. So I'm just not inclined to say it's okay.
COHHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: You're right. I mean, the
board said probably a year ago that we needed to take a stand to
assure this didn't happen. We had -- We had kind of floundered on two
or three items, and -- and we said we need to take a stand to make
sure that -- I mean, ultimately the pool builder is going to be
responsible here, and -- and while it will certainly be an
inconvenience to the homeowner, I don't know that it will hit them
economically, but we're required -- I mean, we have a responsibility
here. If we're going to grant a variance, it has to meet certain
criteria, and it -- and it doesn't, and so I don't know that we've got
a whole lot of --
MR. ASSAAD: Hay I --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- leeway here.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: No, Mr. Assaad, you may not.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: You want to close the public
hearing?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Are there additional public speakers?
MR. HCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. I'm going to close the public
hearing.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'm going to make a motion to
deny the petition because it does not meet any of the criteria. It's
not a special condition or circumstance peculiar to the land or
structure or building that were existing. There are no preexisting
conditions. This was plain and simple an error. And while it's
unfortunate we need to go that way, it doesn't meet the letter of the
law we're required to follow.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Norris.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: I understand and completely agree
with you; however, I think what we're going to do if we deny this
variance is punish the homeowner more than we're going to punish
anyone else and like -- like has been stated already, this is -- this
is one of those really awkward positions where either way you go
you're probably wrong, and I don't know what to do about it. I --
I -- I think that the homeowner is the one that's going to suffer more
than anyone else though, and I don't -- I don't really think that's in
our best interest.
COMHISSIONER BERRY:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
COMHISSIONER BERRY:
past?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
COMHISSIONER BERRY:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
COMHISSIONER BERRY:
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK:
Mr. Chairman, how many --
Commissioner Berry.
-- of these have you granted in the
While I've been on the board?
Yeah. I mean, just --
Yeah.
-- do you roughly recall?
I'd say it's a third, two-third --
you know, two-thirds of them have not been granted, and maybe, you
know, a third have.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Have most of them had neighbors
behind -- living behind them or --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Well, the most recent one --
COMMISSIONER BERRY: -- that -- that are impacted by
this?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The most recent one a unanimous
decision -- decision by this board was in Vanderbilt Beach with a
canal behind them, you know, and that involved tearing down the wall
of a structure.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: It required -- They had to do that
because it was denied?
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Yeah. We have in Naples Park cut off
the corner of -- We've done the same thing, cut off the corner of a
cage, if I remember correctly. And the whole idea was to send a
message to the building community that you checked your work before
you construct, not after, and apparently that message has gotten
through in some areas but not in all. And the same argument could be
made for every one of those cases we turned down in the past, that
we're penalizing the homeowner. The truth is, who's going to have to
rectify this is the pool company at their expense, and it's a civil
matter between the homeowner and the pool company. It was the pool
company's job to make sure that this complied with the setbacks. They
failed to do that.
I -- I have a second step here, regardless of how this
motion goes, that is going to ask our staff to develop a notification
to all pool companies when they pull permits that a spot survey prior
to construction is highly recommended and -- and -- and some
notification element because apparently this is not an industry
standard or we wouldn't be seeing these kinds of variances. But, you
know, this decision stands alone. I don't disagree with you,
Commissioner Norris. I'm just -- I'm trying to be consistent.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: I understand.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I -- I -- Some of those votes
haven't been unanimous because I have voted in the minority because I
can't get the phrase "the death of common sense" out of my head. I
agree that we have a big flag waving here that there's a problem, but
the problem needs to be addressed in our codes, perhaps in the way
that you're describing, and not to -- to penalize the innocent, and --
and I'm going to continue for consistency to vote against the motion
that's on the floor and to urge us to address the problem and
particularly with regard to pool enclosures. Apparently this is the
prevalent issue.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: We have a motion. Is there a second?
I'll second the motion.
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Aye.
Opposed?
COMHISSIONER BERRY: Aye.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Aye.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The motion fails. Is there a
substitute motion? The opposition was Commissioners Berry, Norris,
and Mac'Kie. Is there a substitute motion?
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: I will reluctantly move approval
of the variance request in the interest of common sense and -- and ask
you, please, Commissioner Hancock, to forge some kind of a
recommendation to staff along the lines that you were describing
earlier.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: I will second that based on the
very same thing because I agree with the chairman, that this seems
very flagrant actually. I mean, you're not talking a matter of, you
know, a couple of inches or a foot. This is, frankly, ridiculous, and
I think we need to do something, but I'm not -- I'm not ready to
penalize the homeowner at this point.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'm just -- I'm having a tough time
with how we're going to turn --
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Let me make a --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- out the next one.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Let me make a suggestion.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: No. I think with your -- with your
recommendations that we take --
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I'll make a motion to table this.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. There is a substitute motion
on the floor which does take precedence.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I'll consider seconding if
you explain why.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Because we're going to revise our
variance procedures in the next cycle of the LDC. The problem with
granting this 2-foot variance is there's -- once you do that, there's
no restriction then from them building anything out in that -- that
varied area.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: Then I'll withdraw my second --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: -- of the previous motion.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. There is a -- There is now one
motion on the floor. Is there a second to the motion?
COMHISSIONER BERRY: To --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: To table.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: To table.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: To table? I'll second it to table.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: There's a motion, and there's a
second to table. Is there any discussion on the motion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Aye.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: Aye.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Opposed?
Aye.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Motion carries 3-2. That is tabled
until the LDC amendments are completed. Then we'll address at least
the issue of variances and meth -- methods of variances.
I'd like to ask the board to give direction by a
consensus to our staff some checklist criteria, a single element with
a signature required be issued to --
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Agreed.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- pool companies at the time of
building permit issuance that a spot survey is -- not a spot survey,
but -- but corner points be located by method of acceptable survey
prior to construction. I want them notified of that because I have
every intention of continuing to deny these types of petitions
individually in the future.
MR. ASSAAD: May I be allowed to address the board for
half a minute?
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Actually, Mr. Assaad, we really
can't. That's out -- That's out of order from the -- the process
we're in, so I'm sorry.
MR. ASSAAD: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I have a question --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- maybe for Mr. Weigel about
the -- what's the legal status of this property with the motion to
table?
MR. WEIGEL: Well, it's -- pardon me. It's not in
compliance with our code. It's sub -- It's technically subject to,
you know, being considered in violation and enforcement. I expect
that the unwritten statement from the board in both this and that
prior item is that from the county staff enforcement standpoint, etc.,
this will be on hold until they come back from the LDC.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I -- I think that's -- that's
assumed, that enforcement action on these two are to be withheld, but
that's not to apply to all variances that may appear on our agenda
between now and the time of -- of the -- I want to hear them
individually according to existing code.
Is there some direction to staff? And I think they
should work with the development services advisory committee in
formulating how that should be done but there is --
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: Yes.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. That is the end of
V-96-28.
Item #13A5
RESOLUTION 97-143 RE PETITION V-96-30, JOEL HETTS REPRESENTING FRANCIS
OAKES OF OAKES PRODUCE MARKET REQUESTING A VARIANCE OF 15 FEET FROM THE
REQUIRED SIDE YARD SETBACK OF 15 FEET TO 0 FEET FOR A PROPERTY LOCATED
AT 2205 DAVIS BOULEVARD - ADOPTED
Next item, V-96-30, Joel Metts, representing Francis
Oakes of Oakes Produce Market requesting a 15-foot variance. I would
like to ask all members that are here to -- to testify in this matter
to stand and raise their right hand.
(The speakers were sworn.)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: I have one question before you
start. The -- Is there a variance on this property today existing?
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: The -- No. The building was built in
the 1950s, I believe, and at that time the side setback was zero.
That's what they built on this property line. Today the side setback
is 15, and they want to tear down a portion of the building and
rebuild that portion, but they want to come to you on the same
existing prop -- building line.
In conjunction with this variance, they are also
proposing to relandscape the side and close one of the accesses for
the side and resurface the parking lot, restripe it, and provide
handicap space.
The planning commission heard this petition and by vote
of 8-0 recommended approval. Unfortunately I don't see the applicant
here today.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: My concern is they want to
replace an existing one with something larger.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Just in the for-what-it's-worth
department, to let you guys know, I -- hopefully today, maybe
tomorrow, a series of -- of letters are going to go out from me to all
the property owners along the East Trail and Davis Boulevard corridors
to ask them to begin meeting to discuss issues similar to these that
result from -- Our codes currently create a great disincentive for
improvement of property along these two corridors, and I'm hoping that
we can get some ideas from the public and our staff as participating
not in necessarily a redevelopment agency but in -- in -- in an effort
to encourage the redevelopment improvement of these commercial
properties along those two corridors.
And I don't know, Mr. Hulhere, if you'd have an opinion
about in general whether or not, you know, this is the kind of thing
that -- that we're going to be looking for, but I -- I do want to
encourage this redevelopment effort when it results in bringing some
properties up to code for signage and landscaping and those kinds of
considerations.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: You did say up to code.
MR. HULHERE: I --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. HULHERE: I -- I think that -- yes, the staff in
other circumstances -- for example, with the -- in the next Land
Development Code amendment cycle, you'll be hearing about the Marco
Island overlay district. We looked at some areas on Marco Island that
really were probably right for redevelopment, and we looked at, you
know, reducing some things like side setbacks in excha -- or reducing
parking requirements in exchang for certain things the property
owners -- and this is all to be proposed to you -- but in exchange for
certain things that property owners would be willing to do, which
would be adhering to the new signage requirements, you know, improving
the landscaping to meet the code, and -- and maybe even going further,
at least in the Marco Island scenario, and I think the staff -- and
the reason for the staff's recommendation on a variance like this --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. Mulhere and Commissioner Mac'Kie,
we had an item that this may be an ancillary to, but the item before
us is a variance.
MR. MULHERE: And -- and I just want --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Can we get through that item before
an open discussion on redevelopment?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, actually, the -- the reason
for the mention was to -- because I think it's a factor in whether or
not we approve this variance, that it is difficult to encourage
redevelopment and improvement of properties without variances
presently.
CHAI~ HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I want to encourage, and I think
the only avenue available currently is a variance.
MR. MULHERE: I'm not trying to get off the subject. I
was going to tie it into the fact that the staff's position has been
in the past with these and the reason we recommended approval on this
one has been that, you know, we -- we would look at having
improvements to the property, and -- and another ancillary factor is
that in residential zoning the Land Development Code allows you to
construct along the same line even if you're nonconforming if -- if
when you develop, you developed according to the standards set forth
in the code. And I recognize the board's recent position has been
somewhat different from that. And -- and so ancillary to this
petition is the fact that whether or not any future considerations of
the same factor where you have a -- a building that was built and
conform to the code and now they want to expand. In exchange for that
expansion, they're willing to make some improvements. Our position
has been to support that, and -- and I recognize that the board has
some concerns over that position, and that's why I brought that up.
CHAI~ HANCOCK: Okay. Thank you. I -- I understand
the context now.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Can you just show me on that
map the -- in -- in the summary it says part of the existing building
is at zero. They would like to enlarge what will be at zero. MR. MULHERE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Can you show me on there how
that works?
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: This is the portion of the building
that's sitting right on the property line here, and they are tearing
down this portion of the building and building this instead. And I
should add that there's an existing building on the property -- built
on the property line right here adjacent to the proposed building.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Say that again, please.
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: There's an existing building on the
property line which will be adjacent to the proposed building.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: So there's no separation between the
two structures?
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: There will be no separation.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Are they correcting non -- or
other issues on this site that are currently not in compliance with
the code but will be afterward?
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: For one thing, they have too many
accesses to the road -- CHAI~ HANCOCK: Okay.
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: -- and we are enclosing one of those
accesses for the side. They are going to relandscape the entire side
per Land Development Code.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. That -- you probably don't
mind if I do this. Commissioner HcNee --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Commissioner HcNees, what
district do you represent?
MR. HCNEES: You already promoted me once today.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I am so hungry.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: He just cut your pay in half.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. --
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: There goes your raise.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Mr. HcNees, I apologize for the --
either promotion or insult. I'm really not sure which. Do we have
any public speakers on this?
MR. HCNEES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I'm going to close the public
hearing.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Move approval.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed?
(No response)
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Seeing none, V-96-30 is approved.
See, we approve variances sometimes.
Item #14A
ECO SYSTEM RESTORATION TASK FORCE TO MEET AT THE CONSERVANCY ON MARCH 4
REGARDING LAKE TRAFFORD - CHAIRMAN TO SIGN A LETTER IN SUPPORT OF THIS
MATTER
We are on to BCC communications. Commissioner Mac'Kie?
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No. Actually, my only item of
communication I think I communicated in the variance, just to let you
know that that process has begun, and I'll keep you posted.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Very efficient.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Commissioner Norris?
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Nothing today.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Berry?
COHMISSIONER BERRY: Yes. On March 5 the group called
the South Florida Ecosystem Restoration Task Force Working Group is
going to be meeting at The Conservancy, and they will be reviewing
projects and trying to prioritize them apparently, and one of the
projects in consideration is Lake Trafford, and I'm asking if we might
by consensus have some kind of support in terms of a letter or
something, that I -- I'm planning to attend this. They do have a time
for public comment. They are looking for support in this regard, and
I would like to have some kind of a letter to take from the Board of
Commissioners over to speak to this group.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: This board has adopted a resolution
in the past supporting efforts and identifying county participation.
Does the board have any problem with my signing a letter restating
that resolution and the board support of same?
COHMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Encourage you to do so.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COHMISSIONER BERRY: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you.
And, Miss Filson, would you prepare that? We have
something similar to that already prepared that was addressed to Mr.
Thomas. If we could get the proper addressee from Commissioner Berry,
I'll be -- and you'll prepare that, we'll -- we'll get that signed and
taken care of.
Item #14B
DISCUSSION REGARDING PUBLIC ACCESS TELEVISION - NO INTEREST BY
COHMISSION
Commissioner Constantine?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I have a -- a few items.
One, first of all, is fairly quick. I had a gentleman -- and he may
have stopped to see each of you -- but spoke with me in reference to
public-access television and the purported advantages thereof and --
and didn't know if the board wanted to entertain that at any point or
not. I told him I'd bring it up to the board, and if we didn't, we'd
let him know, and if we wanted to explore that, then we'd let him know
as well, and wanted to just see if there was any interest in the board
in -- in exploring that as we prepare to deal with our franchisers --
ees.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: And -- and you're -- you're
referring to full public-access television?
COHHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's correct.
COHHISSIONER NORRIS: No, I don't have any interest in
that.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: From what I've seen of content and
lack of control in the full public-access TV in other areas, I
don't -- I'm not really -- I don't think that's an area I want to
bargain with in the -- in the future.
COHMISSIONER NORRIS: Can't the cable company do that on
their own? I mean, do they need our -- Why would they need our
approval?
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I don't -- I'm just asking if
there's -- I'm not a proponent. I'm just inquiring. He said, you
know, if -- if the board doesn't have an interest, we won't spend a
lot of time, and -- and so I told him I'd ask, and if there's not, we
won't have him spend a lot of time on it.
Item #14C
HOUSE BILL 207 RE FLORIDA RETIREHENT SYSTEH - RESOLUTION TO BE BROUGHT
BACK OPPOSING SAID BILL
A couple of other things. One, I wanted to bring to
your attention -- there is a house bill -- this has been introduced
the last couple of years and failed both years and hopefully will
again this year, but I wanted to see if -- if there was interest in
passing a resolution opposing House Bill 207 which deals with the
Florida retirement system, and what it would effectively do is take
county commissioners out of the Florida retirement system --
COMHISSIONER BERRY: And school board.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- and school board members,
other elected officials. And my concern is, particularly here in
Collier we've grown into a place where this is a full-time job, and --
and there are small communities around the state where clearly, you
know, someone is -- is gathering $8,000 or $15,000 a year. They're
not depending on this as their primary job. We have commissioners who
are, and -- and my concern is, if you take the commission and other
elected officials in similar-sized communities out of the Florida
retirement system, you are effectively penalizing people for serving
four years or eight years of public service by not allowing them to
have some sort of retirement in their job. And -- and I take this
very seriously as a full-time job. I know other commissioners on our
board do that and I just -- While I appreciate the fact that in some
of the small communities it may not be a full-time job, it is here,
and it is in other counties around the state, and I think House Bill
207 goes a step too far. It is actually penalizing people for public
service.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: I agree. It doesn't differentiate
between size, and size is directly related to responsibilities, I
think, and maybe 20 years ago this -- this -- and ten years ago, this
may not have been a full-time job, but it can be today. And so I am
in support of a resolution in opposition to Bill -- House Bill 207.
COMMISSIONER BERRY: They continue this every year. For
probably eight of the ten years that I was on the school board, this
is something that cropped up, and they tried every year to eliminate
this particular part. Also in regard to school boards, they tried to
take them out of the payment system all together.
Due to the time consumption of this particular job, it
does require a lot of time, and it is a -- a full-time job. I
certainly support anything that we can tell them to be in opposition
of this particular --
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: There --
COMHISSIONER BERRY: -- proposal.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: There's three. And if
there's no objection, I'll just have Mr. Weigel prepare a resolution
and -- and bring it back for some -- COMMISSIONER BERRY: Great.
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- formal action but --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: That's fine.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- that's a legitimate
concern.
Item #14D
DISCUSSION REGARADING GOLDEN GATE ESTATES AND PARK SITE OWNED BY AVATAR
- REAL PROPERTY DEPARTMENT TO LOOK AT THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY
A couple other items. One, I have handed out to each of
you a tiny little map which is a section of Golden Gate and also a
legal description. The area that's included there was originally
designated when Avatar developed this property as a park site. And as
is written -- and I -- I guess it's not highlighted on y'all's copy of
the legal description, but over on the right-hand side it says 1969.
Note, this should have been raised to $6, blah, blah, blah, and it
says park site. And several times in the last four years I've had
people from the Golden Gate community inquire and say, "Gee, does the
county own this? Is this going to be a park site," and we do not. It
is still Avatar property, but it had always been designated as a park
site by them. They're going to put that property up for auction I'm
told -- March 15, I think it is, of this -- of this year, next month,
and I wondered if -- if we might -- if you'd have any objection not
today to endorsing the idea of us pursuing that but at least having
our real property people look at it and see. It -- It's small enough
so it would be a community park, which doesn't necessarily fit into
our long-term plan, and that's certainly open for discussion, but just
in the next week or two have our real property people look at it and
at least know so we're informed prior to when it goes to auction. We
may choose to participate. We may not. But because the community has
always kind of assumed this was going to be a park site, I thought it
may be something worth pursuing and -- and at least having the
information on it.
COMHISSIONER NORRIS: I don't have any objection to
exploring it.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: No objection to exploring it, but
I have a question. There's also another park site shown on the corner
of Hunter and something that's not identified, Parcel 213 --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Right here.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- on the same map.
COMHISSIONER BERRY: Right off of Hunter.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: See the word "Hunter"?
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Oh, yeah, yeah.
COMHISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. Do you know the status of
that one?
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That is vacant right now,
although I think the southern portion of that may have been developed,
but I think most of that is still vacant.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: The -- the same as the -- the issue
on Marco Island. I don't have any problem taking a look at it, but I
need to know how it fits into our overall park expansion plans, and
without that information, I don't think this action should in any way
be seen as a -- as an action of intent to purchase.
Item #14E
TRANSPORTATION NETWORK AND TRAFFIC FLOW RE LIGHT AT BEAR'S PAW - STAFF
TO EXPLORE ALTERING SIGNAL DURING OFF PEAK HOURS AND TALK WITH CITY
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: A final comment on a
different topic and that is, right now -- and this is one of my pet
peeves. We're always talking about trying to maximize our
transportation network and -- and how our traffic flows are, and just
before Neil left, he indicated we were looking at computerizing some
of our signals and so on. One of my pet peeves is, as you travel on
Golden Gate Parkway, we installed a couple of years back at the city's
request by Bear's Paw's new entrance a traffic signal because very
obviously at 8 a.m. and at 5 p.m. it's virtually impossible to get in
or out of there. During regular traffic hours, however -- say you go
by at 3 p.m., it's not that hard to get in or out; however, the light
is still activated, and so what you end up doing is stopping three or
400 cars on the parkway so that one car can pull out instead of
waiting an additional 60 seconds or 2 minutes. It just doesn't seem
an effective use of one of our main road pieces, and -- and the city
has requested -- had requested that, and -- and all I'm asking is that
we might explore and take a look at obviously keeping it in during
those rush-hour times but altering that signal during ten o'clock to
three o'clock or something where traffic is not as heavy. It's not as
difficult. It just requires maybe an extra 60-second wait if you're
coming out of Bear's Paw instead of inconveniencing a few hundred
drivers so that every time a car pulls out of -- out of Bear's Paw.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Might I suggest that this
signal-timing question, that you get an answer to that first and then
ask if your -- if your --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I -- I do have an answer and
I don't know if --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: I've explored it with staff,
and -- and the one thing they've done is they're looking for direction
from us at this point because they said the one thing they've done is
the city had requested that it stay all day long. It currently blinks
after 7 p.m. until 7 a.m., but during all daylight hours it is
operational. That's just simply on a city request. It does not meet
warrants, nor have warrants been done there but it doesn't -- This is
from David Bobanick, our interim director, and it says it does not
meet warrants and statistically is outside that with the exception of
rush hour.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: And the reason it was put there in
the location the entry was moved is because it also is supposed to
line up with something to occur across the street down the road --
COMHISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Right.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: -- and we all understand that. So I
think the idea of having it on all hours of the day right now doesn't
make a lot of sense, and if there -- if there can be a -- you know, a
delay cycle or a shorter cycle that helps traffic but still serves the
needs of the folks in Bear's Paw, then let's take a look at it but --
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The one thing we do right
now -- and it says that there's nearly double as far as the timing on
it -- on the signal is nearly double the timing, so there is a little
delay when you come to the signal but -- CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COHMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: -- again, just to stop
several hundred cars for a car doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me
when it clearly doesn't --
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: If the car gets creamed and the
occupant gets killed.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Could I '-
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No. During rush hour it
clearly needs to be there.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Could I ask that instead of our
deciding the -- the question today we -- if you have a memo, if you'd
share that with us and --
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: Sure.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- and maybe forward it to --
or -- or I would forward it to city staff and ask if they have some
justification or some reason for having requested it be all day.
Let's discuss it with them before we just make a decision, in the
interest of harmony.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's fine.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: If you guys want to be harmonious, I
don't have a problem with that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Good.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: No. That's fine. I'll be
happy to provide you with that.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's just -- As we try to
maximum our road network, it doesn't make a lot of sense. CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: That's the only other item.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. Thank you.
Item #15A
DISCUSSION REGARDING LDC AMENDMENTS - MAY 21, AND JUNE 4, 1997 TO BE
NIGHT MEETINGS
Miss Filson?
MS. FILSON: Yes. I have one item. We need to decide
when we're going to hear the January 1997 cycle of LDC amendments.
The choices are May 21 and June 4 or June 11 and June 25.
COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINE: The sooner the better
considering we have the budget hearings several days in a row at the
end of June.
COMMISSIONER NORRIS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Take the earlier of those two cycles
and, of course, Mr. -- are those -- those -- Those are individual
workshops; correct?
MS. FILSON: Yes. Wednesday evening, 5:05.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay. That's fine.
Item #15B
LETTER FROM DCA RE HURRICANE ANDREW AND REIMBURSEMENT PROCEDURES WHICH
HAVE NOW BEEN CLOSED OUT - RECOGNITION GIVEN TO ED FINN FOR HIS EFFORTS
Hr. HcNees?
HR. HCNEES: I have one item, Hr. Chairman, that I'd
like to call your attention -- and I hope you'll feel like it's
appropriate in this forum. I would like to read to you one letter --
one sentence from a letter from the state DCA that we got this week.
Enclosed is a copy of the Federal Emergency Management
Agency, a summarization of the final closeout on your project
application. This file is now considered officially closed.
What this is about is a FEHA letter that we also
received in January stating that our Hurricane Andrew reimbursement
process which we got $1.94 million from the -- from FEHA has been
officially closed out. I bring that to your attention today because
that happened without any money having to be returned that we received
from FEHA with full compliance. In nineteen or -- 1994 when Hurricane
Andrew hit, we had no procedure, we had no policy, we had no
experience, we knew nothing about the FEHA process, and one staff
member took on the reimbursement process, stuck with it through two
promotions, never once said, "That's not my job," or handed it off to
anyone else. He stuck with it like a bulldog, and I wanted to
recognize him today. Ed Finn, would you stand up. And --
(Applause)
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Thank you, Ed.
MR. HCNEES: Not a dime had to be returned to FEHA. So
he figured it out, and he stayed with it, and I just thought it was
appropriate to recognize him for that now that it's all closed out and
no more audits.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: His name on his business card will
now forever be known as Bulldog.
MR. HCNEES: Right.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Okay.
COHMISSIONER HAC'KIE: Bulldog Finn.
MR. HCNEES: Thank you. That's all, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN HANCOCK: Thank you. And with that, I have
nothing. We are adjourned.
***** Commissioner Constantine moved, seconded by Commissioner
Hac'Kie and carried unanimously, that the following items
under the Consent Agenda be approved and/or adopted: *****
Item #16Ala
RESOLUTION 97-97 RE CODE ENFORCEHENT CASE NO. 61002-026, OWNER OF
RECORD - EUGENIO LOPEZ AND SUSANA LOPEZ
Item #16Alb
RESOLUTION 97-98 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 61010-028, OWNER OF
RECORD - E.B. BASSICHIA, ET UX
Item #16Alc
RESOLUTION 97-99 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60905-057, OWNER OF
RECORD - LEONARD J. BUBRI AND NICKOLAS KARALIS
Item #16Ald
RESOLUTION 97-100 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60613-013, OWNER OF
RECORD - RICHARD F. HC CULLOUGH
Item #16Ale
RESOLUTION 97-101 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60529-077, OWNER OF
RECORD RICHARD F. HC CULLOUGH
Item #16Alf
RESOLUTION 97-102 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60223-087, OWNER OF
RECORD - HAURICE C. RIX
Item #16Alg
RESOLUTION 97-103 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60326-005, OWNER OF
RECORD - THE NEW YORK TIMES CO.
Item #16Alh
RESOLUTION 97-104 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60502-052, OWNER OF
RECORD - DONALD H. THOMPSON
Item #16Ali - Withdrawn
Item #16Alj
RESOLUTION 97-105 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60521-015, OWNER OF
RECORD - ANTONIO L. QUINTANA
Item #16Alk
RESOLUTION 97-106 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60617-036, OWNER OF
RECORD - CHARLES E. DUQUET
Item #16All
RESOLUTION 97-107 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60619-021, OWNER OF
RECORD - LLOYD G. SHEEHAN, TR.
Item #16Alm
RESOLUTION 97-108 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60621-029, OWNER OF
RECORD - CLAUDE E. SCHOLLAERT
Item #16Aln
RESOLUTION 97-109 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60626-055, OWNER OF
RECORD - E. SCOTT HERRING AND DEBORAH L. HERRING
Item #16Alo
RESOLUTION 97-110 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60701-105, OWNER OF
RECORD - GEORGES VERBERT EST.
Item #16Alp
RESOLUTION 97-111 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60718-017, OWNER OF
RECORD - ROBERTO C. ONOFRE
Item #16Alq
RESOLUTION 97-112 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60718-019, OWNER OF
RECORD - MICHAEL R. FREDRICKSON AND VIRGINIA FREDRICKSON
Item #16Alr
RESOLUTION 97-113 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60722-065, OWNER OF
RECORD - ANTONIO HARULANDAAND FLOR HARULANDA
Item #16Als
RESOLUTION 97-114 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60806-124, OWNER OF
RECORD - GUISEPPE DONOFRIO
Item #16Alt
RESOLUTION 97-115 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60808-016, OWNER OF
RECORD - HAURICE TREHBLAY
Item #16Alu
RESOLUTION 97-116 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60808-023, OWNER OF
RECORD - JOHN C. GARRISON, JR. AND VIRGINIA GARRISON
Item #16Alv
RESOLUTION 97-117 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60809-010, OWNER OF
RECORD - NASSER NASSER AND HAYEL HASSOUD
Item #16Alw
RESOLUTION 97-118 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60819-020, OWNER OF
RECORD - PHILLIP PIERRE AND MATTHEW HENDRICK
Item #16Alx
RESOLUTION 97-119 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60822-062, OWNER OF
RECORD - FRED C. KRAMER, SR., EST.
Item #16Aly
RESOLUTION 97-120 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60827-048, OWNER OF
RECORD - VINCENT SOLIHINE AND HARILYN A. SOLIHINE
Item #16Alz
RESOLUTION 97-121 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60829-024, OWNER OF
RECORD - LOCKPORT TRANSPORT SERV. INC.
Item #16Alaa
RESOLUTION 97-122 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60829-036, OWNER OF
RECORD - BENITO F. RECIO
Item #16Albb
RESOLUTION 97-123 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60830-074, OWNER OF
RECORD - HERMAN SCHUHACHERAND ILSE SCHUHACHER
Item #16Alcc
RESOLUTION 97-124 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60905-042, OWNER OF
RECORD - ROSE L. CASTEEL
Item #16Aldd
RESOLUTION 97-125 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60905-052, OWNER OF
RECORD - KATY E. HULLEN ESTATE
Item #16Alee
RESOLUTION 97-126 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60911-028, OWNER OF
RECORD - ZBIGNIEW TOHSZAY AND DORILA H. TOHSZAY
Item #16Alff
RESOLUTION 97-127 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60913-048, OWNER OF
RECORD - THOMAS SANZALONE, ET UX
Item #16Algg
RESOLUTION 97-128 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60913-049, OWNER OF
RECORD - KELLY ANN HOHN AND JAMES O. HOHN, II
Item #16Alhh
RESOLUTION 97-129 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 60919-043, OWNER OF
RECORD - DANIEL R. MEYER, TR.
Item #16Alii
RESOLUTION 97-130 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 61001-100, OWNER OF
RECORD - BARBARA K. HAMORY
Item #16Aljj
RESOLUTION 97-131 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 61017-060, OWNER OF
RECORD - MARIA VICTORIA PIHIENTA
Item #16Alkk
RESOLUTION 97-132 RE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE NO. 61104-023, OWNER OF
RECORD - THOMAS J. GAETANO
Item #16A2
ACCEPTANCE OF WATER AND SEWER FACILITIES FOR VILLAGE WALK, PHASE 5-A -
WITH STIPULATIONS AS DETAILED IN THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
OR BOOK PAGES
Item #16A3
APPROPRIATION OF $5,258.91 CARRY FORWARD FUNDS RECEIVED FROM PRIVATE
DONATIONS FOR THE BUILDING IHMOKALEE TOGETHER PROJECT
Item #16A4
APPROVAL OF THE FINAL PLAT OF "SOUTHWEST PROFESSIONAL HEALTH PARK" -
WITH CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT AND STIPULATIONS
Item #16A5
AUTHORIZATION FOR RECORDING THE FINAL PLAT OF JOHNNYCAKE COVE - WITH
CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT, CASH BOND AND STIPULATIONS
Item #16B1
CHANGE ORDER TO A PROFESSIONAL LEGAL SERVICES AGREEMENT WITH ROETZEL &
ANDRESS FOR REVIEW AND CONSOLIDATION OF COLLIER COUNTY UTILITY
ORDINANCES - IN THE A_MOUNT OF $1,500.00
Item #1682
LEASE AGREEMENT WITH THE COLLIER COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD FOR THE USE OF BIG
CYPRESS ELEMENTARY SCHOOL CAFETERIA FOR A STAFF PUBLIC MEETING ON
2/26/97 REGARDING THE WIDENING OF GOLDEN GATE BOULEVARD
Item #1683
BUDGET A_MENDHENT TO TRANSFER FUNDS FROH FOR THE AIRPORT ROAD HEDIAN
PROJECT #60121
Item #1684
PURCHASING POLICY WAIVED; STAFF AUTHORIZED TO APPROVE A RIGHT-OF-WAY
PERMIT AND PURCHASE ORDER IN AN A_MOUNT UP TO $127,180.00 FOR ROADWAY
IMPROVEMENTS TO ORANGE BLOSSOM DRIVE FROM GOODLETTE-FRANK ROAD TO THE
ENTRANCE TO THE CROSSINGS/VILLAGES OF MONTEREY
Item #1685
LEASE PURCHASE OF ONE (1) ARTICULATING FOUR-WHEEL DRIVE FRONT END
LOADER FROM LINDER INDUSTRIAL MACHINERY IN ACCORDANCE WITH BID #97-2618
IN THE A_MOUNT OF $80,885.96
Item #1686
LEASE PURCHASE OF ONE (1) THREE TON TRACK HOE FROH KELLY TRACTOR IN
ACCORDANCE WITH BID #97-2617 IN THE A_MOUNT OF $33,500
Item #1687
LEASE PURCHASE OF FOUR (4) CREW CAB FLAT BED DUHP TRUCKS FROH WALLACE
INTERNATIONAL IN ACCORDANCE WITH BID #97-2616 - IN THE A_MOUNT OF
$150,604.00
Item #1688
LEASE PURCHASE OF FOUR FIVE CUBIC YARD DUHP TRUCKS FROH WALLCE
INTERNATIONAL IN ACCORDANCE WITH BID #97-2615 - IN THE A_MOUNT OF
$136,120.00
Item #1689
NOTICE OF CLAIH OF LIEN FOR THE ENFORCEHENT OF THE NOTICE TO PAY WATER
AND SEWER IMPACT FEE STATEMENT FOR A_MBLEWOOD CONDOHINIUH ASSOCIATION,
INC. IN WYNDEHERE SUBDIVISION
Item #16C1
WORK ORDER #CT-10 (UNDER CONTRACT 95-2334) TO CHRIS TEL COHPANY FOR
IMPROVEMENTS AT THE COHMUNITY CENTER AT FRANK E. HACKLE JR. COHMUNITY
PARK - IN THE A_MOUNT OF $57,767.00
Item #16C2
RESOLUTION 97-133 APPROVING THE EXPENDITURE OF COUNTY FUNDS FOR
EXPENSES INCURRED IN CONJUNCTION WITH COLLIER COUNTY LIBRARY CHILDREN'S
PROGRAMS
Item #16C3
BUDGET AMENDMENT PROVIDING FUNDING FROM WITHIN EXISTING LIBRARY IMPACT
FEE FUNDS FOR THE PURCHASE OF LAND FOR A NEW NORHTERN REGIONAL LIBRARY
Item #16C4
RENEWAL CLAUSE CONTAINED IN THE LEASE AGREEMENT WITH THE TASK FORCE FOR
THE HOMELESS EXTENDING THE USE OF TWENTY (20) PARKING SPACES ON THE
COUNTY GOVERNMENT COMPLEX FOR USE BY THE ST. HATTHEW'S HOUSE FACILITY
LOCATED IN THE OLD EAST NAPLES FIRE STATION
Item #16C5
STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT FOR DEFENDANT, SOUTHERN STATES UTILITIES,
ATTORNEY FEES AND COSTS IN THE CIRCUIT COURT CASE OF COLLIER COUNTY V.
POINT MARCO DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, ET AL., CASE NO. 92-4315-CA-01-DRH
Item #16C6
AGREEHENT BETWEEN THE COUNTY AND THE FORD HOTOR COHPANY FOR THE
CONTINUED USE OF A VAN FOR THE VETRANS'S TRANSPORTATION PROGRAM -
SUBJECT TO REVIEW AND MINOR AMENDMENTS BY THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
Item #16D1
REPORT TO THE BOARD REGARDING EHERGENCY REPAIRS TO THE IHMOKALEE JAIL,
NAPLES JAIL AND BUILDING "K" ICE MACHINE CHILLERAND THE NECESSARY
BUDGET AMENDMENTS FOR REPAIRS OF SAME
Item #16D2
SATISFACTIONS OF NOTICE OF PROHISE TO PAY AND AGREEHENT TO EXTEND
PAYMENT OF WATERAND/OR SEWER IMPACT FEES FOR MICHAEL L. DEHINICO, PAUL
AND PHYLLIS BENEFIELD, BEVERLY KAY BECHTOL, CARTER AND MOLLIE BRYAN,
ELIZABETH J. CORNACCHIA, SHARON CUSCHIERI AND BETTY ARNOTT, AL GALLNLA/~,
JEFFREY AND SUSAN JORDAN, EDWARD F. HC CARTHEY, MARTIN HC GILL, BARBARA
MASON HOSCARDELLI, MORGAN L. MURPHY, GILBERTO AND MATILDE ORTEGA, ODILO
AND SANDRA PEREZ, HARVEY AND MARY SWOPE, DANIELL AND VIRGINIA TETLOW,
JOAQUIN AND ANTONITA ULLOA, KRISTOPHERAND SHEILA UHPENHOUR, AND CARLOS
VASQUEZ AND PATRICIA ROJAS
Item #16D3
NOTICE OF PROHISE TO PAY AND AGREEHENT TO EXTEND PAYHENT OF SEWER
SYSTEM IMPACT FEES BETWEEN LARRY R. ANDREWS AND THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COHMISSIONERS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
Item #16D4
MAXIMUM EXPENDITURE OF $350.00 FROM THE GAC LAND TRUST FOR THE PURPOSE
OF PURCHASING SHOVELS TO BE UTILIZED BY THE COLLIER COUNTY SHERIFF'S
OFFICE FOR DEPUTIES ASSIGNED TO THE ESTATES AREA
Item #16D5
AUTHORIZATION FOR THE REMOVAL OF CERTAIN ACCOUNTS RECEIVABLE ACCOUNTS
FROM THE BOOKS AND RECORDS - AS DETAILED IN THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Item #16G1
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE - FILED AND/OR REFERRED
The following miscellaneous correspondence as presented by the
Board of County Commissioners has been directed to the various
departments as indicated:
Item #1611
SATISFACTION OF LIEN FOR WEED ABATEHENT LIEN CREATED IN 1984 AGAINST
UNIT 3, BLOCK 96, LOT 19, GOLDEN GATE CITY - OWNER OF RECORD: ALICE
SANFORD
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 12:48 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS
CONTROL
TIMOTHY L. HANCOCK, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST:
DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK
These minutes approved by the Board on
as presented or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT REPORTING
BY: Christine E. Whitfield, RPR